WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1235 - Anthony Carrigan

Episode Date: June 14, 2021

Anthony Carrigan set out to become an actor despite growing up with alopecia, an autoimmune disease that causes hair loss. When he finally went completely bald while on a major network TV show, people in the business told him his career was over. Anthony talks to Marc about how that made him want to succeed even more, how he channeled his anger into his performance on the show Gotham, and how he broke through in a big way playing NoHo Hank on HBO's Barry. They also talk about his role in the new movie Fatherhood and how it's nice to just play normal dudes now.  Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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covering only what you need, and policies start at only $19 per month. So if your policy is renewing soon, go to Zensurance and fill out a quote. Zensurance. Mind your business. Lock the gate! all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fuck nicks what the fuck stirs what the fuckettes how's it going i'm mark maron this is my podcast wtf you chose it you it. You made the choice.

This wasn't random. You weren't just spinning a dial. You said, hey, I'm going to choose WTF with Mark Maron. Thank you. Good choice. Good show today. How are you, man? I'm sorry. I feel like I I'm just talking about me again. And I just want to know, you okay how's the transition back going are you seeing people that you love are you going to work yet are you eating out amongst people are you smiling with your face in full view what are you doing are your eyes still scared or is your smile hiding it now that we can see it what's happening are you okay is it overwhelming it is overwhelming isn't it it's very overwhelming i don't want to get nostalgic for back in the day when everyone was doing nothing and just sitting around being frightened all the time but outside of the

exhaustion of maintaining that much fear there was a sort of um relaxed quality you know where time didn't have form there was you know we're not hanging time on anything there was nothing to hang time on so it just kind of was nebulous and kept moving moving and the only thing that was sort of determining time was checking your phone to see how things are going in the world bad bad what time is it what day is it is our things okay is it all ending where are we at the only thing that determined time i do find that a little of that is uh there's a residual vibe around time for me anyways and maybe my brain's going soft i don't know but i'm still unclear about uh the parameters of, like time I'm supposed to do things. I know when I'm supposed to get things done by kind of, but there aren't that many things like that.

But each day, I don't know. I'm still not hanging time on much. And I know I have things coming up, but I can't seem to process them or know that they're coming up. But I've always sort of been like that. Just surprised at my schedule every day because I didn't see it coming. Even though I could just look at it, commit it to memory, but I think innately I know that causes too much dread.

For me anyways, it's just the way I live my life. I can't recommend it to anybody. It's always jarring to realize like, oh Jesus, I have something I should have prepared for a little bit and it's happening in an hour. I had no idea. I kind of did, but I didn't know it was today. That's only amplified by the fact that we didn't have a lot of that over the last year.

Let's not forget, it was a rough year. You all right? Today on the show, Anthony Kerrigan, an actor. You probably know him as NoHo Hank from Barry on HBO. He was nominated for an Emmy for that role. He was in Gotham. Bill and Ted faced the music. And he's now in the upcoming movie Fatherhood on Netflix.

But the thing is, he's got a very fascinating personal story that we get into. And he's one of these guys anthony kerrigan when i first met him i think it was at a i don't know sag awards party it was some some netflix event at the roosevelt hotel and we met each other i could not believe he was not the character and you know he obviously really has alopecia and he has no hair on his body. But I didn't. It was so hard for me to adjust to the fact that he was just a guy. And but once he was here, we had a great talk, man.

You know, it's a it's a life that was not without challenge because of his particular condition. But he's also from New England, the Boston area, which I always kind of get a kick out of my time spent there. So we were able to connect on that, but a great guy, great to meet him. And it was great talking to him. And I will share that with you momentarily, but there has been some up to, look, here's the thing. And I'm sure someone has said this before, but it dawned on me with all this, you know, chatter about the existence

of ufos and perhaps the military has been sitting on this i don't you know whether or not they exist or not for me is not the big question for me the big question is why do they always fucking leave yeah you know if they're if they're around they clearly just hover for a minute they don't hurt us they don't help us but something makes them go you know what this planet nope not nope gotta go i don't know if they're checking on us and they're disappointed i don't know uh if uh there's nothing that they could use here for fuel or food or experiments or they're just sort of like, you know, these, uh, this isn't going well. There's no reason to stop here. Not even for gas, not even to sort of a shut and not even like for a pit stop, like a nap. They just go. That's the bigger question. Not whether they exist, but

how come they don't hang out for a minute what did we do why don't they like us why doesn't anyone in the universe like us and i think we can all answer that question i think you can find the answer that question maybe in your own home so look i've i've unleashed the powers of my uh fan base to find out more about the Lynn Shelton painting that I acquired. Okay. If you guys don't know the story where we're at now is a guy up in Seattle, went to an estate sale, found a painting, big painting by someone named Lynn Shelton, decided to alert me of it. I paid for shipping. He gave me the painting. It's a huge, beautiful work on paper that was done in 1983, which would have made the Lynn Shelton I knew, you know, just out of high school. And this looked like a deeper undertaking than that. And it turns out there was a Lynn Shelton who who was a painter. I looked him up. There's one auction block website of a painting from 1965, an abstract, but not the type of abstract that I have. There was a partnership with Carl Springer Furniture, where he did some painting on paper

that was put on furniture, which is still is available at the gallery. Carl Springer still exists. Carl's dead. But that was really all there was. So I said, can anyone help me figure out more about this guy? I'm starting to know more about this guy than I knew about my girlfriend who passed away. So this is for Lynn Shelton Painter from Mali. Hello, I'm a WTF pod fan. Heard the last two episodes wherein Mark speaks of trying to track down the Lynn Shelton who did his new painting. This probably won't be helpful as I have attempted internet searches in the past to track my old college painter, Lynn Shelton, have had and have not succeeded in finding anything. While an art student at Sonoma State College, now known as Sonoma State University, 1969

through 73, Lynn Shelton was one of my teachers. He lived down in San Francisco, had very cool art studio where he did his own artwork. I don't his work well but i think it was abstract i believe he also made some art films during that era okay so that puts that that that gives us a guy who had a job at a college right so is that it that's all that molly could give me But then I get an email, genealogy of Lynn Shelton, painter. Hey there, this is Sarah. Sent me this email. I work for the New England Historic Genealogical Society in Boston, Massachusetts. I did some digging into the painting by Lynn Shelton.

So she mentions the New York Times article where he did the work with the furniture guy, Carl Springer. And then she looked up Lynn Shelton in newspapers and found a few listings of his work in galleries. She reached out to the Oakland Museum Association after she says, I located an article from 73, which stated that Lynn Shelton's minimal abstract work was being showcased. She hasn't heard back from them yet. Then she searched a telephone number for Lynn Shelton's studio that was in the New York Times. She found it was located at 478 West Broadway in New York, but she says no Shelton was listed at this address ever. It's probably just subletting, leasing it, whatever.

Then she said she turned to the note in the New York Times article that stated Lynn Shelton was a professor of fine arts in California, located at Lynn W. Shelton, living in Petaluma in 1974, Petaluma, California, an assistant professor at California State College, which would jive with Molly's time there. But she said the directory for 74 showed no mention of any Sheltons. Might have been an adjunct professor, she thinks. Then, this is interesting, located a marriage in 1963 for Lynn W. Shelton to marry Fenner in LA, California.

Couple divorced in 73. Next time she finds Lynn Shelton, he's living in New York and then moving to Vermont to marry Sachiko Kusachi, a Japanese immigrant the couple marries in 83, divorced in 94. And then she said she lost track of Lynn Shelton after that.

And there's a death certificate, a death. There's a death of Lynn William Shelton, 2009. She said it's recent, so the only way to determine if it's actually him would be to order the death certificate. It also seems, she said, that Lynn W. Shelton didn't have any children. She says she's 85% positive that this is him. Then she called the guy I talked to at Carl Springer Gallery, who said the same thing he did to me, that he had lost track of Lynn in 94. What Lynn Shelton was doing between 94 and his death, I don't know. The painting I have is from 1983, but there you go. That guy been around had a life

and that i think that's about all the information we're going to find and it's satisfying but it's kind of odd what you can put together with some diligence and with people that are willing to do it there's there's sort of enough of a life there to kind of maybe construct a story. Right? Wild. Anthony Kerrigan, very funny and very poignant and a great actor. His new movie, it's called Fatherhood. It's starring Kevin Hart. You can stream it starting this Friday, June 18th.

And this is me and Kerrigan. Talking, chatting it up. Like a couple of fuckers from Boston, though I just lived there for a while. Are you self-employed? Don't think you need business insurance? Think again. Business insurance from Zensurance is a no-brainer for every business owner because it provides peace of mind. A lot can go wrong. A fire, cyber attack, stolen equipment, or an unhappy customer suing you. That's why you need insurance. Don't let the, I'm too small for this mindset, hold you back from protecting yourself. Zensurance provides customized business insurance policies starting at just $19 per month. Visit Zensurance today to get a free quote.

Zensurance, mind your business. It's a night for the whole family. Be a part of Kids Night when the Toronto Rock take on the Colorado Mammoth at a special 5 p.m. start time on Saturday, March 9th at First Ontario Centre in Hamilton. The first 5,000 fans in attendance will get a Dan Dawson bobblehead courtesy of Backley Construction. Punch your ticket to Kids Night on Saturday, March 9th at 5 p.m. in Rock City at torontorock.com. Wow. Yeah, I mean, I like I thought maybe that once we start doing things that the time would

start making sense again, but it still doesn't seem to. No, no. In fact, I think it's got even stranger. Really? What's going on with you? I just, I don't know. You know, my wife and I, we took it really, you know, we took it really seriously. Sure, of course.

And so we, there was no other way to do it. Exactly. And, well, apparently there fucking is. But yeah, we took it really seriously. And so just time just melts, you know, when you're in the same spot over and over again. And listen, I mean, it's a luxury to, you know, just be dicking around the whole time, you know? Yeah. But still, yeah, just the days just all blended into like one.

I know. I still don't know. I'm still all fucked up. Yeah. And I started doing comedy again. And I just, in my mind, I'm like, you know, we've got to reckon with the reality of this weird traumatic event. But then it's fucking with my head because like your brain does want to just like put it behind you and compress it into this weird. Yeah.

But we're not out yet. It's this weird gray area. press it into this weird yeah but we're not out yet it's this weird gray area no do you feel like you're do you feel like uh you have like the rhythm still you know with with the audience oh yeah i mean that's coming back that's good yeah i mean like i can feel that i i think i might be um over feeling it i think like i'm getting off stage for you know these uh limited audiences and i'm like oh my god yeah that was fucking great. Yeah. But also like, I find that like, we're socializing again.

Yeah. And I find even then I'm sort of like, what's going on? You know, like there's that. Yeah. We're here, man. We're talking in person. I know. I know.

It's weird. It's all happening. Excited. I mean, I got like, got into it, I think a little bit too early. I did this promo for HBO. Yeah. And it was shot-

For Barry? No, it was for Barry, but it was more like to kind of correct the rollout for HBO Max. Oh, okay. Because no one knew what the fuck HBO Max was. I'm still not sure what it is. I know that- Yeah, exactly. My mom said the exact same thing.

She was just like, so wait, I don't have it though. Like, you do. You have HBO. You just need to kind of find a way a way to stream it you can stream on your computer you know sure or on your phone i get it but at first it was like the uh the app was kind of shitty or something right well it just they didn't do they didn't do the uh um the rollout for it correctly so essentially what ended up happening is you know they wanted to do they brought you in to correct the problem yeah they brought exactly he'll fix it he'll fix it exactly um so no so we did these promos right and the i mean it was like

you know it was like six seven hours but i hadn't been around anyone what during peak covid during peak covid well it was like um gosh it was maybe like six months ago. Oh, right. So you've been locked up. It was weird. And not to mention this, the weirdest thing happened to me while it was going on, because it was just me and the camera was on me and I was riffing with this other guy. He's wearing a mask he's wearing a mask yeah and I'm just you know supposed to be calling people from this like uh call center uh-huh letting people know how that they're that they have HBO Max. Were you doing the character? Well that that's what that's what the the funny thing was they were like asking me to do the character you know and I just wanted to be me

but um but they were like don't fuck up your brand man but they were but they um at a certain point right i was doing this and everyone stopped yeah and and didn't move it's it's like it was like i was in disneyland and every animatronic just like powered down what happened and didn't move and everything was just still and i was like i I got so freaked out. I was like Guys guys like Hello What's happening? What the fuck is happening? And then they were like, okay cut and What they wanted was they wanted my reactions like a genuine just kind of like freaking out. Yeah, I guess so

Well, that's I mean, that's what in up happening. It was like a fucking Twilight Zone episode. It was like everyone just stopped. They played you? They played me. Yeah, I was scarred. But then I just went home and I thought about that for like the next three weeks because I had nothing else to do

but replay that shit in my head. Even though you know it happened, it's still creepy. Yeah, yeah, it was still very creepy. And everyone's afraid. You're in the middle of a pandemic. You don't know if, like, is this a new strain? Exactly. Am I the only one alive now?

That might have been the case, honestly. I couldn't believe. That's, like, crazy, man. Yeah, it was really weird. It was a very weird re-entry. Did you guys shoot a third season? No. No, not yet.

We're going to. It's gonna happen? It's, yeah, it's on the books. I mean, we're you know, fingers crossed, hopefully gonna do it soon. So were you slated to do it uh, during COVID? Oh, yeah. We even, like, were in the midst of kind of doing table reads. And, uh, and then they kind of

In March. Yeah. And then they were like, well, uh, we're not really gonna do that anymore. And I remember that first table read we did, because we had heard about it a little bit And then they were like, well, we're not really going to do that anymore. And I remember that, that first table read we did, because we had heard about it a little bit and we were like, do we not hug? Right, right.

Or do we just shake hands? Are we sick? And I remember like, I shook everyone's hand at the beginning and then leaving, I was like, I'm just going to go. I'm just going to,

yeah. Like, I have a feeling that I'm just going to, you know, Irish goodbye this thing, you know? Yeah. Is that a thing, an Irish goodbye?

Oh, yeah. It's when you just leave. You just leave without telling anyone. Are you from Mass? No, I lived there for years. Oh, lived there for years. But I never heard Irish goodbye. Oh, okay.

Yeah. That's when you just disappear and people are like, where's the... I guess he left. Yeah. You just... I mean, it's kind of great because no accountability whatsoever. But they just decided they're not even going to try to shoot it with protocol, huh? Well, oh, with what?

With Barry. They were just sort of like, we're just going to wait? Yeah. Because like Glow, they just ditched, they waited months and then they were like, we're never going to be able to shoot this. Yeah. Well, I think they didn't want to kind of sacrifice the integrity of it, you know? Right.

So they hadn't rented space or anything. No. They hadn't really, you know. No. It was all set of it. Right. So they they hadn't rented space or anything. They haven't really. No. It was it was all set to go. Right. And they didn't want to be the kind of like the the guinea pig of it all or the test. You know. Yeah.

The test one just to kind of see how it was going to go. And honestly, I mean, I haven't heard of a single production that hasn't been shut down. After they start. After they start. Yeah. That was happening. Yeah. Yeah. We're still talking about a fucking. That was happening, yeah. Yeah.

We're still talking about a fucking virus that you can't see. It's microscopic. So like the zone thing, yeah, it's all good. Yeah. But I mean, but if it's around.

But if it's around, you're, yeah. You would think, I don't know, we're all speculating. We're all fucking scientists. Like someone has to really breathe into your mouth.

Right. For you to get it. No, but that was one thing. And then like the next week, they'd be like, actually. Yeah yeah if you're 20 feet downwind and you like you know and then you inhale too deeply you're probably gonna get it i mean it like it was you know conflicting every you know every 12 hours and that's after a certain point you were like well it's like any other fucking virus it's if it's around you're gonna get it or you're not going to get it. Yeah, totally. Well, my goal was not to get it. Did you get it?

No. I didn't either. My goal was, I mean, I was like, I don't care what it takes. I'm not going to get it. I'm not going to get it. How'd you guys live? I mean... Your wife's a chess champion, right? Yeah, yeah. Did you play chess? I mean, we played chess, yeah. We played chess. I mean... Did she teach you? Did you know

how to play chess before? No, not really. Chess always gave me serious anxiety. Yeah. Well, like I know how to move everything, but the idea that there are strategies bothers me. Well, you know, it's the interesting thing that I've learned about chess in terms of my wife is that the. What's her name? Gia. And is she like Gia?

What's her last name? Olympech. Okay. So she's like a world champion. Well, she's, I mean, she was like, you know, pretty high up there, you know, in terms of European players. But, you know, she kind of stopped playing

and she's, you know, just kind of enjoying life now. I mean, I think it's one of those things, disciplines like that, like ballet, you know, classical piano. It tends to like... Do you get rusty? You're all, well, kind of of yeah, but you're all or nothing Either that's right living breathing it going, you know, rightly mad right right or or you're just kind of like yeah

You know, you can do it every once in what my brother was a kind of a professional tennis player I'm gonna taught but in they the funny thing is is those people who do that who go all or nothing and then eventually Like I thought I had another this shit this shit yeah i'm not i'm done but like if anybody else wants to play them it's fucking over oh yeah in their sleep oh no exactly exactly and like i mean she'll just like hand my ass to me on the chessboard and she doesn't even mean to she tries to go easy on me and it just doesn't work out still but uh but no but the interesting thing that i've learned though is that like the way you play chess is very indicative of how you live your life right like i i it seems like one of those games like golf where there's metaphors yeah there's metaphors

for sure it's how you okay explain to me how okay so there's you know there's like uh beginning game or opening and then there's like the mid game and then there's the end game right and some people have their strengths opening right up but then can't finish it right some people are really good at the very end but like just are a mess to begin with yeah you know some people depending on on what their piece what their favorite piece is to move can tell you a lot about yourself really people who like bishops tend to be very sneaky bastards really yeah very kind of like but these are people that know how to play the game. For me, I know how to move everything, but I don't know strategy one, zero, nothing. So it's this big improvisational mess. A good player could beat me in three moves. Oh, yeah. Because I don't know what I'm doing. Oh,

for sure. So what does it say about me? I don't know how to live life? No. I mean, well, you know, I can't be the judge of that. But no, I mean, I think like if you were to kind of learn a little bit more of the basics and you'd probably see like, oh, okay, well, you know, maybe I'm like, I'm nervous. So, for instance, if you're nervous about attacking another, you know, if you play very defensively, then that tends to be how you live your life. If you're like reckless and you're like, let's go over here. I don't know. Let's try this. Yeah.

Who cares? Yeah. I'm reckless and I always lose. Yeah. Listen, not a bad way. You know, not a bad way to live your life. You learn a lot that way. I'll say.

So it was so funny because when I met you, or when I first saw you on Barry, I really assumed that you were that guy. Yeah. A lot of people are pretty taken aback when I just start using my normal voice. Where did I meet you? At the Roosevelt? I think at the Roosevelt. Yeah, the little bowling alley thing. Because we were there for, what, Netflix or something?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We sat down on the couch and you were like, how's it going? I was like, I'm good. You were what, Netflix or something? Yeah, yeah, yeah. We sat down on the couch, and you were like, how's it going? I was like, I'm good. You were like, oh, wow. What the fuck? Yeah. I'm like, oh, okay. Normal guy. Yeah, yeah, I know.

Everyone wants their money back, you know? They want the accent. When they just meet you, you're like, oh, shit. And they're like, oh, geez, where are you from? Boston. Oh, God. No one cares. Oh, all right, cool. Yeah, nice to meet you. Nice to meet you, man. Oh, yeah, do you want a you from? Boston. Oh, God. No one cares. Oh, all right.

Cool. Yeah, nice to meet you. Nice to meet you, man. Oh, yeah. Do you want a photo? No, it's all good. It's all good. I'm good now.

But what part of, you come from right in the city? No, no, just outside it. Which one? Winchester. Winchester. Winchester. Yeah. Which is, you know, it's a very pleasant little suburb.

I have played every one of those dumps. No, I've been all over New England. I spent so much fucking time in those towns learning how to do comedy. Winchester, why don't I know that one? Winchester. What's it next to? It's next to Woburn. Oh, yeah, Woburn.

Arlington. Oh, yeah, Arlington. Yeah, I mean, there's a ton of gigs in Cambridge, you know. Well, no, but there was these one-nighters everywhere. That's how we started, where you go out and do a one-night gig at a pub or a bar. There wasn't one in Woburn. Yeah. But there was one in Arlington.

And there's probably, like, you know, we... Saugus, all those places. Yeah, Saugus. Yeah. Oh, I mean, I never fit in in my town, though. I, like, did not. Like, it's a huge sports town. And I played sports growing up i grew

up playing hockey and soccer and a bit of lacrosse but you don't care i was a theater kid you know i was a theater kid and you really can't do both you know i found that that there is a type of human in new england that is unlike anywhere else yeah and i'm not sure there's different strains all right what's the classification i got i gotta hear well no there's just a very specific type of american townie in in the the area surrounding boston sure yeah and it's like i'm not gonna say it's bad but some of them are but there's definitely a sort of like that go fuck yourself you know definitely a it's no bullshit. Yeah. I notice that whenever I touch down Logan Airport, my hackles go up a little bit.

I kind of get ready to just brawl with someone. Just right when you get off the plane. Just as soon as I, yeah, exactly. Like, I'm getting a coffee at Dunkin' Donuts, and they'll be like, do you want vanilla with that? And I'm like, no, I'm good. Thank you. Everything's confront confrontational there is a tone that's true I say cream two sugars thanks yeah thank you all right yeah have a you have a great day you have a great day thank

you does your accent come back yeah a little bit little bit. Did you have to consciously get rid of it? No, not really. I mean, I wasn't, it was never super heavy with me growing up. So how many, wait, how many brothers and sisters do you have? I got two older sisters. And what's your family's business? Well, my mom was a nurse growing up. Yeah.

At the Brigham and Women's Hospital. Right over in Alston? Yep. Yep. Yep. And let me see. a nurse growing up yeah uh at the brigham and women's hospital right over in alston yep yep yeah and um and uh let me see i mean my sisters you know they're just about your dad uh my dad was actually i mean he worked in publishing for a while but he was also an actor too he's an actor well he was like uh he passed away probably about like uh gosh years ago now oh but um sorry oh it's okay i mean he was a great guy. Really, really, really talented. He did mostly regional theater stuff, but the guy had serious talent.

And, you know, he's how I learned all these accents. Were they together the whole time? Yeah. Oh, that's nice. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But he died young? No, I mean, he was a bit older when he had me. I think he was like 50 when he had me.

Oh, okay. Not that that's... Well, that makes sense. Yeah. I mean... Exactly. But no, I mean, I had a pretty good childhood. They were really supportive of me being an actor, which is great.

But I just like, it's so hard. Well, that's good. But when you talk about Boston, it's just like, I can't imagine... I went to college like some sort of you know upper middle class puss at BU from out of town but like when I met people that grew up there and you're like you know with the name like you know

Kerrigan you're kind of I just can't imagine the process of coming of age and that oh my god I don't know I mean WBCN yeah WBCN WAF you know like those yeah i mean it was classics you know or jamming 94.5 you know like all those yeah the jams man uh but but you know it was it was a strange place to grow up to obviously because like you know i was certainly

different as a kid i mean i grew up having alopecia, right? Right. Which is my autoimmune condition, which is why I don't have any hair. Right, but was it a gradual? Well, yeah, it was a gradual thing. So I started out with what's called alopecia areata. And so it was like just little spots. When did you start noticing it? Well, so I was diagnosed with it when I was three. But I never really knew.

I just knew that people would kind of look at me funny and kind of you know, oh the kids answer Yeah, well, yeah, but I mean there was a ton of just you know parents would come over to my parents and be like What's wrong with him? You know just like really just tear you know no like just like what's his what's his deal? You have to see that they just your kids kid's deal? And in their confrontation when I crossed, they're like, yay. They're like, what's wrong with Anthony? What's wrong with him? Huh? Does he need to get out of the pool?

Because I see that he's like shedding in there like crazy, you know? And, you know, I don't know. I didn't know how to like, you know, deal with it. So, I mean, so I essentially just kind of covered it up. Yeah. And I got beat up and teased and bullied. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. By the monsters. know, deal with it. So, I mean, so I essentially just kind of covered it up. Yeah. You know, and I got beat up and teased and bullied. Really? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

By the monsters? No, by the kids. Yeah, the monsters. They are little bastards. Did they do it with that accent? I mean, some of them did, yeah. What's up, Baldy? What are you doing there, Baldy?

Huh? What are you doing? What are you, like a bald eagle? Huh? But like, yes, yes yeah super creative um but uh no but funny but like but yeah so you know i was kind of different yeah you know from the outset yeah and i wasn't i wasn't about to fit in so i was pretty happy to just get out of there but did you right but i mean like growing up did you have a couple of friends and stuff yeah no i

definitely had i had friends i mean it would kind of hop around yeah different more like artsy crowds and when did you lose all the hair i lost all the hair when i was in my mid-20s it was actually so not in high school no it's not in high school but how many times did people think you had cancer well i kept it pretty well hidden you know that's the thing so like i'd be sometimes the wind would blow and people would be like, dude, what's wrong with your hair? You know? Like, oh my God, are you all right?

Like, I'd be like, yeah, yeah, I'm fine. You know? Just like, oh my God. Oh my God. Like, why are you missing a chunk of hair? And I'm, you know, I just- They're so straightforward. No one's going to pretend like nothing's wrong in that fucking town.

They're like, Tommy, Tommy, get over here. Look at Kerrigan's hair. Look at this kid's hair. You know? It was hard. But anyway, so like- So you were just coming over these random patches? Yeah, pretty much.

Yeah. And also like hoping to god that that no one would would you know would notice or make a big deal out of it i was terrified of it but you'd have to would you have color your eyebrows what'd you do well my eyebrows never really went that much in my you know yeah when i was a kid yeah but when i um in my 20s though so i get out of school i went to school for acting yeah and like of course i mean i have alopecia i choose to be an actor it's like i choose the most like vain industry is shallow but what do you make of that well i think okay when i when i was a kid i was super shy i was really in it like in my own shell yeah and and i think a lot of that had to do with my alopecia

like i didn't want to be seen by anyone you you know, but at the same time, I did also have this need, this want to like express myself. Right. You know, I wanted to to I had a voice and I had something to say. And I found that when I got on stage, I could kind of whatever I'm wearing, I'm wearing like a stupid costume. Right. Well, that's right. So you could put on a head. Yeah, exactly. I can put on, exactly. I can, you know, I can put on a wig. Yeah, you know. Sure. Whatever. That makes total sense. And so, yeah, when I was, you know, when I got out into the industry, I was kind of, you know, I had like hair down to my shoulders. But where'd you go? So you, in high school, you did plays and stuff?

Yeah, I did plays in high school. And people like, so that was your world? Yeah. The theater nerds. And I loved it. And you i also played sports but you weren't that well i stopped playing sports pretty much as soon as high school started because i was like this sucks you know and also like there's a more sympathetic crowd more human bunch everyone's everyone's so much more accepting yeah yeah yeah um and also just better parties too you know it know? It was more fun. Way more fun. Oh, yeah. You just had to hope the monsters didn't come.

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. But, yeah, they did. They did, actually. Of course. No, there was a brawl at my buddy's house one time where the monsters showed up. What happened? There they are. There we go.

Oh, my God. It was my buddy was throwing, you know, what turned out to be a total raja. Yeah. Yeah. And it was like, you you know it was just me and some pals and i had a girl in from out of town and we were just all hanging out and then all of a sudden my my buddy disappears and when when we see him next he's crawling inside he's blood all over his face he's like they got kicked the crap out of him and then they come in and start

smashing everything and i mean did you know him yeah oh yeah i knew all of them i knew all of them i was like buddies with one of the kids who i you know ended up like beating the crap out of you did yeah oh you showed him yeah yeah i did at that that night yeah that night so you got into it oh i got into it yeah oh i scrapped yeah oh you were a fighter oh well no i wouldn't say that no but that time i mean yeah that time i was just like you know i went to kind of i don't know i went into a mode um but uh good for you thanks i mean i don't know i wouldn't do that once well you gotta yeah it's it's good to kind of i've never done learn about you learn a

lot about yourself and also anytime you're in a fight, I don't care what it is, you always feel like a five-year-old kid afterwards. Right. You always do. Like in the way of like, it's bad, sad, mad. You're always just like, no, just like breathing heavy and you're like, God, you know, just like, don't do that. Which just don't, don't, you know, don't push me, man.

I feel like everyone's got that kind of like quivering kind of thing underneath them. Yeah, sure. And it's just, everyone's just trying to build an exterior on top of that. Right. You know? They ruined the patty. Yeah, they totally ruined the patty. We had such a good vibe going, you know?

Yeah, people are going to come up to me like, do the accent. Be like, oh, no accent. And they're like, no, no, no, Boston one, man. Exactly. You get you known for something else. Exactly. That's what kills me about that you know that bit

that Casey Affleck does on SNL oh yeah it's so perfect it's so perfect like that guy he's one of those guys yeah

he's hiding that totally I feel like it's just you know it's a part of everyone who goes up there oh my god and you either run away

from it or you embrace it you know but that thing is just so good. I know. But anyway, oh yeah, so I was in my mid-20s. I'd just gotten out of school.

And things were going pretty well. Wait, sorry to interrupt you. No, no, it's all good. Where'd you go after high school? You studied acting. Yeah, I studied acting at Carnegie Mellon in Pittsburgh. That's one of the big ones. Yeah, it's a big one.

It's a big one. It's the oldest conservatory in the country. And you did like four years there? Yeah, I did four years there. I really enjoyed it. I mean, it was so much fun. Now, what were you doing? Were you doing all the stuff, like comedies, musicals?

Yeah, I was doing... No, not musicals. Dramas, no musicals. No, just dramas and comedies. Learning your chops? Yeah, learning your chops. And when I was there, I was just like, I'm just goingies. Learning your chops. Yeah, learning your chops. And when I was there, I was just like, I'm just going to be a stage actor my whole life. But then-

So when you were doing it there, did you get proficient at, did you have your own wigs? Well, no. So, I mean, it wasn't ever that bad when I was in college. In terms of you still had hair? Yeah, I still had hair enough to cover it up because I had really long hair. And so I could kind of, you know, color it in and you wouldn't really be able to see it. And a ton of people just didn't know. They couldn't see.

Right. And it didn't progress until a few years later. And that takes us to what you're saying. Yeah. So, well, it just so happened that i booked my first big series right that brought me out to los angeles right right right and i yeah and it all within out of like a nine month shoot i lost pretty much half my hair which now that show what was it called the forgotten oh yeah forgotten so do you think that some of the

So do you think that some of the hair loss was from the stress? You know, they say that it's not stress-related because, like, your immune system, you need a strong immune system to, like, attack itself and to succeed. Because what it is is, like, your body thinks that there's something wrong with it. Yeah. And so it attacks the hair follicles, and you're just kind of like, well, you know, there's nothing wrong there. But it attacks the hair follicles, so it falls kind of like well you know there's nothing wrong there but it attacks the air follicles so it falls out but now but that's very specific so but your immune system otherwise is okay oh yeah yeah it's weird it's very specific yeah it's very specific it's very specific but it enabled you to get the vaccine before everyone else no i mean yeah i was you know i was like i was like well yeah i mean I? And they were like, no, no.

Back in line, kid. But look at me. Yeah. No, I'm not about to pull that card. Yeah. But yeah, but it was a trip, though, because I was. So it's fallen out. Yeah.

Well, also, I was just, you know, this was the thing that I like was hoping to God would never happen. Right. I was so terrified of it. I was so terrified of people actually noticing it and seeing it and And the fact that it all started going was just my worst nightmare happening And then the producers found out the producers were really sweet about it And they were really helpful and they got a wig maker And I got these like fake eyebrows and you can kind of tell a little bit

But in the back of my mind I just knew I was like was like, I can't, I can't do this forever. For your whole life. Yeah. But for the series you did for the series I did and ended after one season, thankfully. Um, so you lost everything in the, in the one season, your hair. Well, no. So then, okay. So I use this stuff. It was essentially like using poison Ivy on my scalp. Cause what it does is it's like, it's like, imagine like a group of firefighters who think a house is on fire, but it's not. Right. And so they're just causing major water damage. Right. So what you do is you light a fire down the street, you know? And so they're like, Oh, look at that fire over there. And so that gives it enough time for the house with water damage to kind of, you know, be okay. Dry out. Yeah. So that's what you do.

And so it was. It was like a cream. Yeah, it's like a topical ointment, but it was awful. It looked like Freddy Krueger. I mean, it was rough. Yeah. But it did get my hair to grow back for a time. Yeah.

So, you know, everyone was kind of like, all right, well, I hope this works. And it did work, but then it all started falling out again and that second time that it fell out I was like I don't know what to do yeah I was like I'm screwed and this was all I'd planned for yeah you know this is all I really wanted to do but you knew it was coming the hair well when it grew back no but I mean like when it fell out yeah when it started falling out again I was like oh This is yeah, this is gonna be this is rough. So you thought The two the things you knew were you're not gonna be the wig guy Yeah, it's too much. It was too much and also, you know, he looks weird

It looks it will know I mean like some people choose to do that. I'm pretty involved in the alopecia community You are yeah, I mean I alopecia. Yeah. Yeah, it's a country. I'm pretty involved in the Alopecian community. You are? Yeah. Alopecian? That's what they call it? It's a country? I mean, yeah. Welcome to Alopecia. Yeah. But no, we're a pretty tight knit community. In Hollywood or in general? In general. All over the

world. Because when it happens to people, everyone starts to lose not just their kind of hair, but their confidence, their sense of identity. You start to wonder. You must be like a hero. Well, I feel like I've come out on the other side of it now, you know. And it took me a minute to do that.

Well, yeah, I can't imagine it because vanity is so much what so many of us are about. Yeah. That without this illusion. That's the thing yeah you know like you know you can kind of make decisions about who you are in the world by having control over how you look or who you think you are 100 and the thing that that people don't realize is that in a weird way i mean it's it's kind of a gift to be given that that kind of insight yeah because once you realize that like, oh, this doesn't matter at all.

In fact, like, you know, everyone has something about themselves that they just wish they could change. Sure. You know, they wish they could not have. Right. And, you know, they live in this perpetual state of like waiting to be something else. Yeah.

Waiting to kind of, well, once I kind of get rid of that. Right. Or fix this or whatever, then I'll be happy. Right. Yeah. And what people don't realize is that like.

They'll never be happy. Is that you're never going to be happy. No matter what. I'll say this again. Listen to me. You're never going to be happy. Ever. Ever.

Ever. No. The key is that like you're going to be happy once you essentially find a way to just kind of, you know. Be cool with yourself and accept yourself. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, and, you know, for a long time I held on.

Like I held on to those few little pieces of hair I had left when it was all falling out. Or those eyebrows or eyelashes. And I was holding on to this other identity. Yeah. This other identity. Until I just decided, like, I'm just going to shave it off. And then it all started to go anyway. And I decided I was going to rebrand myself, you know?

Yeah. I was going to, I was like, in my mind, I can play aliens and I can play monsters and that's it. But I might be able to get a couple jobs, you know? That was, that's how you were looking at it? Yeah, that was how, because that was how I kind of viewed myself. I viewed myself so otherly. But after a certain point, you could take a role where you could use wigs or prosthesis or whatever.

I mean, there's nothing. I mean, that's part of what show business is. That's true. That's true. But at the same time, I kind of wanted to, I was so pissed

and I was so angry at the kind of rejection that I had and the comments that I got from people, from the adult monsters who were like, who were like,

I'm so sorry, but this is not going to work for you. You not going to you're not going to succeed it's not going to happen i'm so sorry it was like it was almost like they were it was like it was coming from a good place in their heart that was the weird look at yourself yeah they yeah and they were like yeah i mean you're not attractive anymore yeah it's not i'm so i swear to God That's I mean I was told this I was told this you know It was like a mercy killing on the airport and I was like I was so I was so angry Yeah, that I was like watch me watch me I'm gonna make I'm gonna make something of this look and I'm gonna show all of you just how far I can get

Yeah, and I did yeah, no, I'm doing it. I'm in the process, yeah. Well, I mean, the character that really kind of like introduced you to the world is hilarious and unique and like, you know, and very odd. Yeah, and very odd, yeah.

And funny as hell. Right. And it's funny too because now I'm like, I don't know, no one really is like, dude, why don't you have eyebrows? Yeah.

I'm used to it now. Yeah. It took like 10 minutes. Yeah, it took, i don't know no one no one really is like dude why don't you have eyebrows yeah you know i'm used to it now yeah it took like 10 minutes yeah it took yeah those first 10 minutes though i could see you just being like i don't know about this dude no i mean i wasn't that worried but but it is a thing yeah well i got some questions that it's it's like because i was thinking about um you know how we perceive ourselves it's interesting that's interesting that you had clumps of hair that couldn't have looked really good, but they made you feel better. Yeah. Well, they symbolized a past identity that I was trying to hold on to. I can't believe more people didn't think you have cancer.

Well, funnily enough, when I was 21, I was actually diagnosed with cancer. Oh, my God. Yeah. My 20s were- You had a jump on the look then. My 20s were a weird time. So I was diagnosed at 21 with testicular cancer. Oh, my God.

And that was a lot to kind of go through. And then a couple of years later, my pops got diagnosed with cancer too. So I was throwing a bunch of curveballs in my... So you got it treated? I got it treated, yeah. I got a couple surgeries. And, you know, one doctor said that I should go through chemo. The other one said I shouldn't.

Yeah. I stumbled upon a bunch of, like, Native American medicine men who gave me a healing for it. Yeah. It was a pretty wild, wild experience. So no chemo? No, no chemo, thankfully. Yeah. And so I'm in the clear for it. Yeah. It was a pretty wild, wild experience. So no chemo? No, no chemo, thankfully. Yeah. And so I'm in the clear.

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, my God. How old are you? 16 years. I'm 38. Oh, that's great. Yeah.

Man, so that's a lot to take. Yeah, it was a lot. But, you know, it's when all that stuff happens, you kind of, and I think, you know, it's when all that stuff happens, you kind of and I think, you know, there's a reason why you see people who have been through like a bunch in their life. Way more, way more than I have. Right. And somehow they're living their best life. You know what I mean? They're getting on stage in front of tons of people, just letting letting people know, like, right, what a beautiful gift life is.

And it's because I think they were able to like you know use whatever was thrown at them and kind of alchemize it in this weird way to to learn what life is really about you know so let me ask you something about it before i forget it because i seem to be hung up on it about the alopecia yeah community yeah are there people um on the down low what do you mean like like hiding their alopecia? Oh, yeah. Like it's got to be like- Oh, big time.

Like so many people, right? Oh, there's a ton of people who are, yeah, who like, you know, who hide it from pretty much everyone. Yeah. And live in fear that they're going to kind of be found out. With makeup and wigs and stuff. With makeup, with wigs, you know. Yeah.

And it's like, and it's, you know, it makes me sad because a lot of them are just kind of missing out, you know. Missing out on like jumping, going and jumping into the ocean or, you know, just kind of feeling comfortable enough in the bedroom to like take their wig off with their partner, you know. And wigs are uncomfortable. They're itchy. Yeah. you know it's well yeah but that's that's it's an odd thing about balding even uh to some degree that that you would think like at least you know go out on the weekend and you know just you know go full bald right yeah and then if you got to go back to work you know and it makes you feel better but why would you you'd get to a point where it's sort of like this ridiculous i gotta put the wig

on the eyebrows every day for work and i know well and some people some people get to that place and some people don't yeah and um and it's it's a hard thing to it's a hard thing to deal with so i mean i i what i try and kind of preach you know some some like somewhat like tony robbins at times where i'm like look you you know there's an opportunity for you to kind of just like to just embrace it to to to take this look and not just be okay with it but actually enjoy it and be like hey this is actually a cool it's a cool thing it's a stylistic choice yeah to be uh hair free so what what what are you finding happening like when did you shoot this uh kevin hart movie uh it's kevin hart movie um we shot uh let me see before the not this last summer but that yeah it's summer 2019 so a year ago 2020 right so march 2020 is

when we locked down yeah that's right right so okay 2019 um and i was that it was a great experience uh i'm really excited for people to see fatherhood it's yeah it's such and well what's cool about it is i'm i mean just personally i'm like i'm not playing a bad guy i'm just playing like a normal dude you know who's like his his uh kevin hart's work buddy yeah um but it's a really really great great movie well directed paul weitz um and uh and yeah i had a blast so it'll be coming out now did they like they didn't get it to me soon enough for me to watch it but does ke Kevin, you know, call you names or? Oh, no.

Okay. No. No, thankfully. Does he bring up the alopecia? No, no. Nothing said. No, what that's cool is, like, it's kind of just normalizing it. I'm just his, you know, I'm just his pal.

Yeah. And it's like me and, you know, Kevin, Little Will Howry and Alfre Woodard. I mean, a fantastic cast. and, um, Alfre Woodard. I mean, fantastic cast. And, um, and no, it was just kind of, I was just a normal,

normal dude. So I think that's the key is like normalizing it. Right. And I get messages all the time from people being like, Hey, I just saw you on this thing. And it's just cool to see someone out there not hiding. Right.

You know, and that kind of can, can shift people's, um, from the perception from the outpatient. Yeah. You know? And that kind of can, can shift people's, um, own perception. That's from the alopecia community. Yeah, from the alopecia community.

Isn't there a British actor that's got the alopecia? Uh, yeah. Um, didn't I see him, I saw him in something with Rebel Wilson.

Why can't, they were roommates. I can't remember. Matt Lucas. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Matt Lucas. He's, he's a genius. Yeah. I mean, that guy is like, but also that's his thing. Like he's got such an iconic, iconic look, you know?

Yeah. And he really makes it work for him. So that's what I think. You're on your way, man. Yeah. You guys are the primary alopecians. Yeah. And I mean, it's a great bunch.

And honestly, everyone who's got alopecia is. Do you know some people in our community that have alopecia and it's on the down low? Yeah, I do. Yeah. I mean, I'm not going to expose them. No, of it's on the down low? Yeah, I do. Yeah. I mean, I'm not going to expose them. No, of course not. But no. But yeah, I do.

And I've become the guy who people call and just be like, hey, so I noticed I got a spot. And I'm like, okay. And so we'll just talk for a couple of hours about how they're doing. Because it's a weird thing. What do you mean when they start losing? Yeah, when they start losing their hair. Yeah. yes it throws you for a loop you wonder how bad is this gonna get right you know or or but does it always get all the way bad no i mean not bad no no but you know it doesn't it doesn't always get all the way you know right lost um so it

it's a real roll of the dice so do you still have have some? I've got peach fuzz. Oh, yeah? Yeah, peach fuzz, but that's it. Oh, okay. I'm like silky smooth. Yeah? Yeah. You're not shaving it? Nope.

I'm not shaving it. Don't have to. No. Yeah. My wife is pretty jealous of that, how you don't have to shave anything. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's great.

So what about your sisters? Nothing? No, nothing. No. is how does it happen do you know did you investigate i mean i mean a little bit but medical show i don't the the whole thing about autoimmune conditions is that people just don't know they don't know what causes it or what the gene is or how it you know Right. But if there was a cure tomorrow, I would turn it down. Right. I would be like no thanks. Really? Yeah. If someone said take this, you get your hair back? Nope. No way. I mean, I don't think HBO would be cool

with it either if I took it. But you can always get rid of the hair. I mean, kind of. I have dreams about it though. I have dreams about my hair growing back. And it's a bad dream? Yeah, my immediate thought is I can't wait to shave this off. I swear to God. I swear, though. I have dreams about my hair growing back. And it's a bad dream? Yeah, my immediate thought is, I can't wait to shave this off. I swear to God. I swear to God.

I love it, because I now feel so liberated by it. It's like, you know, I wouldn't have it any other way. Well, I mean, so what are you going out for? Like, you just go out for regular roles. Well, I'm trying. And they know. When they say, you know, Anthony's going to come in and they're like,

oh, great. Yeah. Yeah. So tell him to bring his bald head in. Yeah, bring his big old bald head in here and, you know,

we'll see if it works. I mean, I am kind of like a, you know, very specific, you know, specific type. No one's going to go like, who?

Yeah. Bald guy from Barry. Yeah, bald. You'd be surprised. A lot of the time that is what it's kind of shortened to. It's like Anthony Kerrigan, huh? Yeah, bald dude. You know, Noah Hank. Yeah, bald. You'd be surprised. A lot of the time that is what it's kind of shortened to. It's like Anthony Kerrigan.

Huh? Yeah, bald dude. You know? Noah Hank. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. That dude's hilarious. Oh, you're going to be

in a Farrelly Brothers movie now. Yeah, sign me up. But what have you been going out for generally? Generally, I mean, i still go out for a ton of villains but you know i i think it's it's more fun to kind of stretch myself out in different directions right you know and so it's what do you want to do i don't know i genuinely don't know i thought i kind of knew but i'm i'm really what did you know when you thought you knew well what i

thought i wanted to be was just kind of um i don't know, just limiting it to being like an action star or, you know, being in like these big budget things. Yeah, yeah. But I kind of, I don't know, I'm kind of shifting and thinking about like now wanting to be, I don't know, just wanting to be in like cool, good, moving projects. And it's weird to think about it in that way. Yeah. I just want to be in stuff that moves people. Yeah. Emotionally.

But do you have, I mean, it seems like comedy is good. Yeah, comedy's good. Comedy's hard, though. Comedy's hard. Is it? Yeah, I think so. I mean, I'm not a comedian. I don't do my own.

You know, though. I don't. I don't. The idea of doing stand-up scares but not stand-up but i mean you have good sense comic sense of humor i i mean i i try to but it's it's written that way so i i feel like i mean you know we we messed around improv a lot but right but we're making fun of the the boston guys and it's that's true you know it's funny but they're like they're sitting tag it's right there you know come, that's like low-hanging fruit.

No, I mean, I don't know. I know, but the guy that you put, Noah, what is his name? Noah Hank, yeah. I mean, the whole timing of that guy and everything about that guy, I mean, you had to delegate or sort of decide about that accent and how to use that accent comedically, whether you do it on purpose or not. True, yeah. You know, it's got its own timing and you know it's happening. Yeah, it's a real science to, like, just miss the mark with certain sayings.

Because you don't want to completely miss it, but you've got to just miss it, you know? And that's written in or you some of yeah some of it's written in and some of the time you know we just kind of we just riff who writes it uh so it's uh bill hater and alec berg right yeah well he's so funny he's so funny man he's so funny but but again like when i'm when i'm doing a panel with with all that yeah i'm like i'm not a funny guy you know that, I'm like, I'm not a funny guy, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I feel like just a normal, just kind of actor, you know? Yeah.

But when I'm on set, I feel like I can kind of turn it on. Yeah. I can turn it on pretty easily. Yeah. The accent thing kills me. Yeah. Oh, it's so much fun. It's so much fun to play with.

Did you have to have a coach? In the beginning, yeah. What is the accent uh it's chechen chechen yeah okay so it's i mean it's like russian but a little bit more in the mountains a little bit more hard to pin down yeah um so you had one of these dialect people we had one of these dialect people come in and and kind of you know work on all the specific sounds and and uh and then you know eventually i just got got to the point where i could kind of go through my script and just mark up and be like all right did you use because like

i had to do a houston accent recently and yeah did you have like a key of words yes that you kind of could play in your head to get the the sounds going in your mouth yeah yeah yeah so i mean there'd be you know like the first the first line that my character has is like hey man you know and and like i whenever i'd get lost i would just come i'd be like hey man you know you'd fight it yeah and and that first day was hilarious too because that was my first line and that was the first scene that we shot at the pilot and and i knew that it had you know kind of gotten a good response because everyone started coming up to me feeling like hey man and i was like oh god all right you know somebody putting my mic on and i did the sound guy was just like okay man you know just really like slide it in

have you heard from any chechens no not yet which is kind of a scary thing, actually. Really? Yeah. Why? Well, you know, I mean, if they're not talking to you, then you've got to wonder, like, what they're thinking. It's not landing? Well, yeah, I mean, I don't know. Hopefully it's... I'm surprised. Hopefully people are enjoying it.

Yeah, you would think that if the Chechens didn't like it, they would say something. Right. Or just show up to my house. In the middle of the night, show up to my house. Yeah. In the middle of the night, show up to house, you know, be very quick about it, you know,

he's a very funny man, he does not deserve pain, you know, take him out quickly. Eventually, one of them will come up to you, like, they'll be like,

I know you. Yeah. My friends like you. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah.

He's dead. Come to my house, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I'll show you what it's really like yeah exactly boy that's gonna be the fun time you like tattoos i give you tattoo so now you don't have kids right no and how long you've been married uh just let me see three years how'd you meet the chess player? Well, we met on the subway in New York City. I think I read that, but I don't know. How does that work? Well, so it was like the hottest day of the year.

In New York? So it's all muggy and disgusting? It's all muggy. It's like walking two blocks is just the worst. So it was at the Broadway Lafayette stop. I walked down into the station. Yep. Walked down to the station, and I saw her standing there.

I was like, okay, wow, she's really attractive. But I didn't want to be a creep or anything, so I kept my distance, right? And, you know, we got on the car. She was kind of checking me out, too. This is when you had no hair. Yeah, this is when I had no hair. And then I, you know, I got off at the, you know, next stop, and I realized that I'd gotten off a stop too soon.

Yeah. And I started walking up and I was like, oh, God, no. There's no way that I'm walking an extra six blocks to wherever I'm going. So I just turned back around to get back on the subway platform. Oh. Well, no. And then I turned around to get back on the subway platform and I see that she's standing there on that, you know, this new platform. I was like, oh, okay.

Well, I got to say something. I got to, I have to approach her. So I did. And I was like, you know, I messed up. I got off on the wrong stop. What about you? And she was like, oh, I was on the wrong train. I was like, oh, okay.

Well, and then so we both got on the next train. We started talking. She told me she was a professional chess player. And it's hard not to have a good conversation when that's your answer. But how did you riff on that? Well, I mean, just be like, oh, chess. So like, yeah. I think I was just like, oh, chess.

I'm horrible at that. Oh, there you go. And she was like, oh, well, you know, it's actually like a pretty easy thing to pick up once you start to open your mind to it. I was like, oh, interesting. Yeah. And then I got i got you know i got her number by the next stop did you go by a chess book no i know i was just i was no man i wanted lessons from her you know what i mean right sure yeah the real deal right and uh yeah and then so the i think it was like the next the next night yeah we were kissing on the bro Bridge oh yeah it was really nice that's sweet yeah it was very sweet

yeah very sweet and now you're together and now we're together yeah so you say that she's pulled back from the chess scene yeah she's pulled back

from the chess scene she's trying to kind of like shift gears and figure out you know I mean obviously how to apply her knowledge has she written a book

or anything no no but that's a great idea like what about that whole analogy that you have was that her was that her no that's her yeah that's her great idea like what about that whole analogy that you have was that her was that her no that's her yeah yeah sure in terms of how you live your life and you know on

the chessboard yeah i mean i think that that's so indicative of it just tells you so much about who you are and you could also teach people to play chess that way yeah you really could she should do a ted talk she should yeah i mean let's get her on the phone let's get her on the phone let's call it right now we've got it figured out for you yeah you're gonna do a ted talk she should yeah i mean let's get her on the phone let's get her on the phone let's call it right now we've got it figured out for you yeah you're gonna do a ted talk and then write a book about how people's lives uh they live them like they would play chess yeah and if they don't know how to play chess this is your easy system of how to start playing chess listen you're obviously going to get commission for this no no i just try and help people no it's a great idea.

But like when you guys during the lockdown, I mean, how did you, did you, did you play a lot of chess? I don't know why I hung up on you. No, no, no. We played a decent amount. I mean, I think like we were both very, you know, great partners in this, in this pandemic as like, I mean, she's from Serbia. Serbia was bombed.

She's from Serbia. Yeah. She's from Serbia. Serbia was bombed she's from serbia yeah she's from serbia serbia was bombed by the united states and you know in 1998 99 and she was there for that oh my god so she was in a bunker for like god like 70 80 days really yeah her family and that was how she learned how to play chess oh my so so she learned how to play chess in a war zone in a war zone and this very kind of like i mean you know this environment where you got you just you know you have to you have to deal with it yeah and this you know this saying that she i mean i'm not going to say it in serbian because i don't know it in serbian but it's essentially uh what you must do is not hard

right and that was what was kind of applied to this situation. Right. Where she was just like, look, this is what we got to do. Right.

So you can either bitch about it or you just do it. Adapt. Yeah, you just adapt and you make this your life. So that's so funny.

My brain, like I'm thinking Serbia, that was, the conflict was between the Croats and the Serbs. Yeah. Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

There was like, yeah, that Serbia was accused of ethnicats and the Serbs, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. There was like, yeah, the Serbs were accused of ethnic cleansing. Right. It was like a big mess. I mean, I've tried numerous times to learn all the intricacies of it. And it's just so, it goes back so far to like the Ottoman Empire. I mean, it's just a very deep, deep, deeply entrenched history. And where's Chechnya in relation to everything? Chechnya is like just adjacent Russia, deep, deeply entrenched history. And where's Chechnya in relation to everything?

Chechnya is like just adjacent Russia. Oh, okay. Russia adjacent. Yeah. It's all up there somewhere. It's all up there. Yeah. It's in there.

Yeah. Yeah. Now, does she go back to Serbia? Yeah. I mean, we've been back. Really? We've been back to Serbia. Was that the first time you were there? It was the first time I was there.

Yeah. How was it? It was great. Really? Yeah. It was so much fun. I mean, they know how to party. Was that the first time you were there? It was the first time I was there, yeah. How was it? It was great. Really? Yeah, it was so much fun. I mean, they know how to party, that's for sure. But Croatia's supposed to be very nice. Croatia's gorgeous, too.

Really? Yeah, a lot of the Game of Thrones stuff was filmed in Croatia. Oh, that's a lot. All those beautiful waterfront shots, it's all Croatia. People are talking about it like it's the place to go. It is. Yeah? It's gorgeous i think that i think i see a a period piece with armor in your future i think so i think i can kind of

yeah in that fantastical realm listen all right that's what i want to do i want to be in you know some kind of fantasy fantasy franchise that was a huge fantasy geek throwing growing up so i want to like which ones i don't know i mean comic stuff well yeah some comic stuff i mean obviously it's like you know red uh watchmen and um yeah you know uh sandman series oh sam yeah i love the sandman yeah me too i hellblazer i got the sandman through hellblazer oh nice oh it's a big hellblazer guy but i'm not a comic guy but hellblazer and salmon i enjoyed yeah yeah definitely i know i'm not a huge comic book yeah but i like that one more stuff you know and so i want when i started to do yeah gotham i you know got all these people

being like do you know the character you know and i do i do know the character so which character well i played this character named victor zaz who was like okay yeah yeah he like every time he killed somebody would cover tally into his skin. Yeah. Super mellow guy, you know? But the nerds were like on you about it? Yeah, they were on me about it. But I, you know, I like knew, I'd done my research, you know.

You had to defend yourself. I had to defend myself. I do know it. People get, people are really intense these days about it. It's a very big deal if you're playing one of these characters. Do you go to Comic-Con? No, I haven't been, no. But, I mean, I've been to certain cons.

I mean, they happen all over the place. Yeah. What's happening now? We're in one. This is one. This is one right now. Cool. Where do I sign?

You're going to do a picture, and you're going to print it up, and then you sign it. Yeah. You want to take a picture? Yeah. All right. Come here. Come here. Tommy.

Tommy, turn the flash off. Tommy. God. Turn the flash off. Tommy. God. Turn the flash off. Tommy, you're doing a video. It's on live. Tommy, you're doing a video. But I don't know.

I had a great time with that one because I just, you know. First of all, I was so angry. Like, this was one of the first jobs that I got when I was told, you're not going to do it. It's not going to happen for you. It's over for you, Bobby. So I was so pissed. Yeah. I was just like, I not going to do it. It's not going to happen for you. It's over for you, Baldy. So I was so pissed. Yeah, I was just like, I'm going to march into that room. I'm just going to own everyone.

Yeah. And yeah, so I had a good fire in my belly for that. That's great. And so outside of Barry, is there other stuff happening? There's some stuff happening. I can't talk about too much of it right now. But yeah. That you've done or you're about to do? Some of it I'm

in the midst of doing. Some of it I'm about to do. But yeah, but I'm really just ramping up for Barry season three. I've got some press to do for this fatherhood thing. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's great talking to you. It's great talking to you too. Do you, like, your family Irish? Well, my dad's

from England, but like, yeah, I mean, I'm Irish English mix. But not you don't go back to Ireland. No, no. You don't have family. No, not yet. I like Ireland. Yeah. I mean, I'm really excited to go.

I mean, I've missed like if there's one thing the pandemic taught me, it's just like travel everywhere. Yeah, I know. As soon as we're able to. I went down to see my mother as soon as I got through the vaccine really yeah in florida oh and i went to new mexico to see my dad and uh you know after i got yeah outside of the two weeks yep and it was okay it was a little weird still a little weird it's still weird it's still weird and i think it's like as long as you can just be like you know it's gonna be weird we don't even know what's gonna we don't even know what the world looks like really yet you know like in terms of what survived what didn't what economically

what's gonna happen no no we're all no idea no i think it's just a matter of like you know this has taught us a lot and and we're all what did we learn well i don't know if if we we learned that we uh we can you know do a lot of what we need to do without doing it with people. That's right. We can do a lot of stuff from home. We can do a lot of stuff from home. But yeah, but I don't know. I feel like we're also entering into a phase of like, we haven't even reached the kind

of like PTSD. That's what I've been talking about. You know what I mean? I've been talking to so many people who have like such anxiety and depression and panic attacks. I've been doing that on stage talking about like, we can't not, we have to engage with this. You got to. You got to.

Because it's, we're going to be fucked. We can't be, we can't go, I mean, there's, you know. You can't just plow on. No. Act like nothing happened. You can't act like nothing happened. And anyone who is, is full of shit. It's a little weird.

Yeah. It's a little weird to watch comics too. Really? Who just are sort of picking up, you know, like, you know, they're just doing 15 minute relationship chunks and we're like, weird. Yeah. It's a little weird to watch comics too, who just are sort of picking up, you know, like, you know, they're just doing 15 minute relationship chunks and we're like, nothing.

Yeah. It's just, it's over a year. They're doing. Yeah. Yeah. Or they're just doing their old set, you know,

kind of some of them be like, Hey, how about, yeah, yeah. You know, how about football? Yeah.

Right. Am I right? Yeah. Remember football? Yeah. It's a little bizarre to see how, how it's gonna work i know i'm just like panicking yeah my first 10 minutes is just sort of like do you you know we were doing a year ago yeah yeah but i don't know i think as long as we all kind of take care of each other and

remind each other that that shit's just weird yeah and that that it's okay to be freaked out. It's okay to be just questioning who we all are right now. It's a totally normal thing. That's like that moment during the pandemic. You're like, who am I? Yeah. Like, who am I? But also like all of these things that usually people can keep at bay. Yeah.

Right. Like, you know, people who would kind of busy themselves with a nine to five. They never had to think at bay. Yeah. Right. Sure. Of like the kind of like, like, you know, people who would kind of busy themselves with a nine to five, they never had to think about this stuff. And then all of a sudden they're flung into their homes for like extended periods of time. Yeah. And those, those, you know, I always said that like. Left their families. It's not like a zombie movie.

Exactly. It's not like a zombie movie where like, you know, you're too busy running away from the zombies for, for your, you know, for your anxiety or your depression to take over. It's like all that stuff is amplified. Sure. Big time. I can't imagine what it would be like to have a wife and kids during this thing. I know.

It'd be intense, man. Oh, my God. It'd be intense. Either they're all a lot closer now or things have gone wrong. Or they have diverged yes exactly but i think you're right though i think if we can all be supportive and also try to uh not engage the monsters uh yeah right exactly and there's there's no shortage of them but it's crazy right it is it's nuts but do you ever go back to boston yeah i I mean, I do. Who's there?

So my mom and both my sisters. Oh, yeah. Yeah, they're on the North Shore now. Oh, yeah? Ipswich. Oh, okay. Well, that's nice, right? Yeah, it's beautiful out there.

Yeah, yeah. It's beautiful. So, I mean, I get back, you know, I get back as much as I can. I try and be a good son. Yeah. You know? I wish I had more reasons to go back to New England, but I never just go. You don't ever do, like, any more of the comedy circuits up there? No, I do.

I'll do like, I did, where did I perform there last time? I was going to do, I do that one, what is it? Christ, now I'm forgetting. The Wilbur. The Wilbur? Oh, yeah. I'll do the Wilbur sometimes, and I was going to shoot my special there, but we had a technical issue. But I don't know.

It's one of those places where I spent years there. and i never sort of like i gotta get back there and i don't do it yeah it's so different like i went to college in boston i started my career in boston later many years later yeah uh doing those one-nighters and stuff but like that whole city is nothing like i remember it it's totally different most of it's been erased yeah it's changed a lot yeah it's changed a huge amount like Kenmore Square like was a defining place for me and now it's like

it's just nothing oh yeah it's bizarre no I know I mean I used to remember like going to Somerville you know yeah

I was in Somerville I was on Cottage Ave in an attic before it became like cool before it became cool yeah there were all these places

you know like Sacco's Billiards and places I would just go and hang out. Yeah. Isn't it called Mike's Pizza right there in the middle? Yeah. Yeah. Totally.

And then there was that weird, what was that train car? You remember that train car that was there? It was like a restaurant. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And then there was another one, a restaurant that opened at like 2 in the morning called K and Chips or something. This weird fucking place. Might have been before your time.

I never understood it, but it didn't open until the middle of the night. It was a very bizarre place. I used to go to Bickford's. Bickford's. Oh, was that the one with the counter? That was the chain that was close to us. I used to have theater rehearsal and then go party, and then we would all just go to Bickford's late night. In Somerville?

Let me see. I was in Davis dave i was in davis square yeah i love davis square yeah but there was back in the day when i was there there was like one of those restaurants where you get a tray slide it you know no it wasn't like that this is a diner yeah yeah but you know i'll have to i'll head back at some point hopefully just calm my nervous system down enough to enjoy it get put your feel your hackles get up landing at logan like here we go yeah exactly just like you know let go of the like my curled fist you know i don't know man i don't know yeah it's good talking to you but it's great talking to you too appreciate it anthony kerrigan great story story, great guy, funny. Got some good laughs.

I enjoy the good laughs these days. Barry is another season is forthcoming. The film you can see him in now is called Fatherhood, starring Kevin Hart. You can stream it starting this Friday, June 18th. And now it's entertained with some music. Thank you. Boomer lives. Monkey. Lafonda. Cat angels everywhere.

And that was fucking take two, man. We'll be right back. Moose? No. But moose head? Yes. Because that's alcohol, and we deliver that too. Along with your favorite restaurant food, groceries, and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details.

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