WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1247 - Matt Damon

Episode Date: July 26, 2021

Matt Damon's continuing presence and popularity in American films can be summed up in four words: He loves to act. Matt tells Marc how he made the most out of working with icons like Clint Eastwood, Francis Ford Coppola, Steven Spielberg, Jack Nicholson, Denzel Washington and many more. He also talks about teaming back up with Ben Affleck for their first screenplay since Good Will Hunting and making his latest film, Stillwater, with Tom McCarthy.  Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

It's winter, and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost almost anything. So no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats. But meatballs, mozzarella balls, and arancini balls? Yes, we deliver those. Moose? No. But moose head? Yes. Because that's alcohol, and we deliver that too.

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FX's Shogun, only on Disney+. We live and we die. We control nothing beyond that. An epic saga based on the global best-selling novel by James Clavel. To show your true heart is to risk your life when i die here you'll never leave japan alive fx's shogun a new original series streaming february 27th exclusively on disney plus 18 plus subscription required t's and c's apply all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the

fucking ears what the fuckadelics how's it going i don't mind do what you have to do do your ayahuasca do your shrooming do your micro dosing i have no judgment of that other than dosing is dosing i know you can't feel it i know i know you know people have recommended it to me sometimes maybe you should micro dose i'm like i don't know why why if you're gonna do it do it right coming up on fucking 22 years sober here and a little brittle a little poppy could use some in-person uh secret society uh clubhouse get-togethers how you guys doing i'm just rambling this is uh this is the uh the show welcome to it some of you might be new to it because Matt Damon is the guest. He's got this new flick out. Did I just say flick like an old man? He's got this new flick on acetate out

at the projector theaters. He's got this film out. It's called Stillwater. It's quite a movie. I enjoyed it. I've seen a couple of movies that are encouraging. Sometimes films don't do what you anticipate them doing. You know, the promo for this thing, the promotional campaign for Stillwater, makes it seem like a sort of, what's that movie with, what's those ones with Liam Neeson, Taken, you know, like a guy's going to save his daughter. But it's not, it's definitely not a franchise film. And it's it's kind of a morally challenging film.

And the protagonist, the main guy that Matt plays, this guy, Baker, he's not your average hero or maybe maybe not a hero at all. average hero or maybe uh maybe not a hero at all it's it's a provocative movie and it's beautifully written because it unfolds in a way where you don't really you can't settle in to what is happening exactly for a good 10 to 15 minutes which i kind of like you know you're kind of learning as it goes along there's not a big information dump with some awkward monologue or stilted conversation between characters it just unfolds sort of uh beautifully and naturally and all of a sudden you're in this predicament that is uh complicated so i guess i'm saying i enjoyed the film i saw a couple movies i actually went to the real movies and i think it's one of the reasons why i fucking went into some guy goddamn

grief zone again i saw the movie pig with nicholas cage because i just wanted to see it and i don't know why because i wanted to it felt like nick cage was going to do something it felt like nick cage was going to do nick cage at his best i just felt it and i didn't know what the movie was about but it seemed unusual to me about a a guy whose truffle kid his truffle pig a truffle, his truffle pig gets kidnapped. I'm like, what is that? And it's about, all I get is that it's a guy who wants his pig back. It's like, this is an action movie? Again, like Stillwater. It's like, is this a hero? Is this a franchise? Is this guy, how many movies does he search for the pig? But it was not that kind of movie. It was a very sweet,

poetic movie, sort of in the same world as First Cow, which was a movie that came out last year, which was a period piece. This is sort of a modern film, but it happens in sort of a, I think, a mythical landscape. It is based in Portland, Oregon and the region up there around Portland in the woods. And it does deal with sort of chef culture. It deals with food culture. But it's really not about that. It's really about grief. The movie is a meditation, a poetic meditation about grief.

A lot of the sort of elements of the story are clearly unreal in terms of their execution as reality. But it's more of a lyrical movie. And it's about authenticity. It's about grief, it's about passion, but the undercurrent is the sort of the heaviness of humanity when it comes to processing loss and processing grief. And the ending just shattered me. I went with Jerry, Jerry Stahl, my buddy,

and I'm fucking weeping in the car ride home and it's a mile car ride. They had a lot to do. Maybe it was just the, it was what it was. It just reopened it, and it made me see it differently. It made me see grief differently. And I'm still not that far from it, but it made me see the balance of it

and what it does to you. I don't know. Powerful movie. And even though it shattered me, I'm probably going to go see it again. And that was not a paid advertisement. I got to give myself a break sometimes. And it's part of this creative process.

You guys, I did the last of the first run of Dynasty typewriter shows. And the last one was, it was part of this creative process you guys i did the last of the first run of dynasty typewriter shows and the last one was it was sort of astounding and i don't i don't want to toot my own horn or be proud but you know i'm very grounded and from and and and where i'm coming from is sort of a a deeper place uh with the improvisation but a lot of it sort of came together kind of beautifully and and a lot of it was you know a little not dark but you know honest and heavy but it wrote a line and uh i guess that's just where i'm at it was very rewarding to do the shows i'm in very sort of peak comedy shape after you know performing nightly at the comedy store and uh you know honing that edge and then

kind of like locking in to the hour plus uh riff sessions to see where we land it looks like i've definitely got you know probably an hour of solid shit that i could sort of craft and i guess i should tell you that I am doing these dates. I don't know what's sold out and what isn't. I should, but I don't right now. I don't have it in front of me, so you will have to check it out for yourself. I am at the Comedy Works in Denver,

August 5th, 6th, and 7th. I will be at the Comedy Works in Denver. That's five shows total. At Stand Up Live in Phoenix, Arizona, August 12th, 6th, and 7th, I will be at the Comedy Works in Denver. That's five shows total. At Stand Up Live in Phoenix, Arizona, August 12th. That's the Thursday, and then they added one, August 13th, another single show at Stand Up Live in Phoenix. August 19th and 20th and 21st, I will be at Wise Guys in Salt Lake City, Utah. That's five shows total. Wise Guys in Salt Lake City, Utah.

That's five shows total. September 16th, 17th, and 18th, I will be at Helium in St. Louis. If there is not a complete theocratic takeover and COVID fucking super spreader event of the new Omega strain, I'll be there in Missouri for you people who need me to come. September 30th, October 1 and October 2, I'll be up in Indiana at the Comedy Attic, which I love to do, the Bloomington Room. It's nice, comfortable, get some work done. So for fuck's sake, by the time November comes, I should be tight and sick. Tight and sick of that hour. Is that the name of my new tour?

Tight and sick 2021. Maybe. Maybe. Matt Damon is in this new film, Stillwater, which is a surprising movie. Directed by Tom McCarthy. It opens in theaters this Friday, July 30th. And he came by the house. He came by the house.

This is me and Matt Dane. You can get anything you need with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats. But meatballs and mozzarella balls, yes, we can deliver that.

Uber Eats. Get almost, almost anything. Order now. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category.

And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. do you ever like consider do you have some plan in your head where you're like i'm gonna leave i'm gonna go somewhere else i get probably in your head where you're like, I'm going to leave.

I'm going to go somewhere else. I get probably in the back of my head. Like I definitely, you know, when we did the lockdown, we started the lockdown. We were in Ireland because we were shooting a movie. That's the best place. It was so fucking great. We loved it there so much. And I was kind of in the back of my head like, I could move here. I could live here. That's the place I always think of. I don't of my head like, I could move here. I could live here.

That's the place I always think of. I don't even know why. I'm a Jew. I have no attachment to Ireland. But every time I go there, I'm like, oh, my God. Yeah, it's beautiful. Yeah. Where were you?

In Dalkey, which is just about 45 minutes outside of Dublin. It's this beautiful seaside town. I mean, it was just. It's the best. It was beautiful yeah you took the whole family yeah we were all i i i got very lucky we were shooting we're shooting this movie that's going to come out later in the year called the last duel and half of it we shot in france and half in ireland and we made it we just eked out the french yeah uh part of our

schedule so you finished that we finished that and then we we did a crew travel to ireland yeah landed in ireland and shut down so you're there for months we stayed for three months yeah we had this because we got there and you know we'd rented all of these uh houses in this town yeah um that were you know it was about a 15 minute drive to the studio it was this beautiful little town so everyone you know the actors and about a 15 minute drive to the studio. It was this beautiful little town. So everyone, you know, the actors and Ridley Scott was directing it. Everybody rented a place. Well, everybody left. Yeah. And so I was there and I kind of looked around and we had, you know, you know, a few people in our little group and we were like, well, we got all these houses for three months. So we just moved into these houses and houses and uh and just kind of took it over and

and uh and had just the best the best time that's i i love it there i but i don't know like you don't have to tour or anything you could theoretically live wherever you want you just go and make movies right like i sort of am tied to the state somehow because i gotta entertain people absolutely yeah well you gotta jump on a plane every weekend and go. If I want. Yeah. Go perform for the weirdos, the strangers out in the world. But I don't know why people, I don't know.

But do you think you'd get bored? Do you occupy yourself well? I mean, what do you do? No, no. I have no problem occupying myself. I mean, there are other places I could live. And I was in Australia for the first part of this year. And I love it down there.

Where in Australia? In Byron Bay. Is that by where? Is that like by Brisbane, by Sydney? Yeah, it's about a two-hour drive from Brisbane, south of Brisbane, about an hour south of the Gold Coast. And you liked it? I love it there, yeah. You love Australia?

Yeah, I love it there, yeah. Australia or Ireland? Those are the places. Well, those are two of them. I think there are a lot of countries I could. Do you ever think of like Costa Rica? Yeah, I've spent a lot love it there. Yeah. Australia or Ireland. Those are the places. Well, those are two of them. I think there are a lot of countries I could. Do you ever think of like Costa Rica? Yeah, I've spent a lot of time there. I haven't been in years, but I love, there's a beautiful, you know, there's a great, you

know, that's a totally different style of living. Yeah. I love, I just love traveling. I love moving around and I've lived in all these different kind of European capitals because of work. Yeah. Oh, for Bourne? Yeah, for the Bourne movies.

Where else? Were you in Hungary? Yeah, Budapest for The Martian. I lived there for a few months. So that's where that was shot? Yeah, they have one of the biggest sound stages in the world. There's the famous Bond stage at Pinewood

that they claim is the biggest in the world. Yeah. But this one in Budapest, I think, claims that by square footage or square meters, it's bigger. And you're able to get out and do shit? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, the language is a problem for me in Hungary, but... Do you speak any other languages?

I speak Spanish, some Spanish, enough to get around. Okay. But I haven't had a lot of jobs in Spanish-speaking countries, unfortunately. Yeah, I don't know. Like, Australia, I think I could live there, but I always get a feeling when I'm there that I'm like, wow, I'm really, you know, we're really out here. It's far away.

There's no, you know, there's nobody around. There's a good side of that and a bad side of that. But I mean, I get that island tweak on, even when I'm on Hawaii. I'm like, fuck, we're just out here. We're out here in the Pacific. Yeah, I just happen to have a bunch of friends down there, too. In Australia? Yeah, so I feel really comfortable there because we have a nice community of friends.

Oh, that's nice. So I watched the new movie, the Stillwater movie. Did you like it? Yeah, man. All right, good. Yeah, I mean, I've got questions about Process. I thought the guy who directed it, he did Spotlight, too. What's his name again?

Tom McCarthy. It's fucking great how that story unfolds. Yeah. Because you don't like it for the first, and I don't want to spoil anything for anybody, because you don't know what the hell's going on for about 20 minutes. Yeah. Which is great. Yeah.

Like, this guy's looking for a job, and now he's on a plane. It's like, what's happening? Yeah, and he's a roughneck from from oklahoma it's a very specific thing yeah it's like what is this guy where's this guy traveling it's so funny because when uh you know when i my producer told me about the movie and like what it's about it's about a guy who goes to you know save his daughter i'm like oh it's gonna be a franchise thing yeah well that's the thing the setup it feels like it should be a liam neeson movie right but but could you think of that guy, that character you play in this movie, Bill Baker, as a franchise?

No, no, no. He's going to go somewhere else and fuck something up. Yeah, exactly. He's trying to solve a problem. He's going to make it worse. A broken man. Yeah. Just doing damage to his primary relationship.

Not really succeeding in all these attempts at fixing things. But I thought that character was, I don't know that I've ever really seen a character like that, that was sort of unabashedly not particularly bright, you know, and not really heroic and damaged, but, you know, earnest somehow because he needed to be in order to transcend his past sins. Right. Yeah. And he's just trying to repair the damage that he's done. Yeah.

You know, to this relationship with his daughter. And he wants to, you know, make amends and help her. Help her. Yeah. But he doesn't have any other kind of requisite skills to do that. He's not capable in any way. Right. Like, you know, when he's out there

looking for that guy i'm like oh my god you're like what are you doing it's like a idiot yeah yeah literally i mean he doesn't speak the language he doesn't actually he doesn't understand the culture so he doesn't actually know what's happening around him he literally might as well be on another planet and he's he's just but he's just you know doing it right yeah and then the but there was just something so interesting about the nature of lying, the nature of shame, and all that shit. Well, that's the whole thing, is that the guy from the first frame, you have to understand,

that's the challenge of the performance, is that this guy's carrying this guilt and pain and grief and shame and regret yeah and uh for his failings and and and and you need to you need to believe it needs to be real right it's got it you got to believe that um you know that's why i worry if they if they sell it too much like a thriller because to your point about expecting like yeah you know those movies are fucking great like i'm the first guy to be like when liam neeson's like i have a very particular set of skills i'm like fuck you do yeah let's go you know yeah let's get them right but uh this guy's like i have no particular skills no particular skill i don't have anything that's gonna help me here yeah

uh so it's a it's not a thrill it's a thriller kind of setup but it really is a drama um well was there a discussion about that like do you talk to the to the writer uh you know in the sense of how like is he upset with how it's being marketed so far or do you no no no i i don't i'm this is me kind of lobbing it from the sideline i haven't i haven't looked i'm not a producer on the movie i'm uh i'm i'm just an actor on this one so you know but listen there's always there are always these debates about you know do you bait and switch do you do do you try to get people in the theater and then they're so wowed by the movie that but i've never ever ever believed that i think you got to be completely honest with the audience no like i'm looking at the poster right now matt damon still where secrets run deep right and with this look in your you know you're like this guy's a badass

but when you're about 10 minutes into the movie you're like i don't know he's not he's not a badass at all i hope he's okay this guy he seems like he's a little over his head yeah he's completely overwhelmed yeah but i mean but the character i loved it because at the end you know i'm not going to fuck anything up, but there is a sort of like moral conundrum. Yeah. And he, and he really, the guy really goes on a journey. I mean, a rough night from Oklahoma.

Yeah. Is a very specific, you're from a very specific part of our country and you do a very specific thing like that. I learned so much getting ready for this thing, like going down there and hanging with those guys. Like it's a fucking hard job. Is that how you do it? Because like I was trying to figure out like, you know,

some of the choices you made and it seemed like, you know, there's like a lot of stopping of emotion. Like I imagine that's just become second nature once you decide that this guy is like, you know, a lot of it's strangling him from the inside. Yeah. I mean, there's the physicalization of it, right? The external kind of what you see, right? Yeah.

Which is like all of that we got from those guys, you know? Yeah. The blue jeans with the fire retardant. Sure, sure. And the, you know, the goatee and the wraparound shades and the hat. Yeah. And all of that. And the body type.

Yeah. Which is like that job is job demands kind of like- Beefy but not fit necessarily. Right. And power. You got to be fucking strong to do that. And all of that, the carriage of the guy was all really dictated by those guys. Yeah.

But the internal stuff that you're talking about, you get that from the screenplay. It's like you push real emotion out through the filter of the guy you're playing. The guy's limitations or whatever they are. Yeah, or whatever they are. Yeah. So that's how you work. You just see what's on the page and start making decisions around the lines and seeing where he's sort of swallowing his ability to be honest or his ability to communicate emotions and all that shit.

Yeah, I mean, even before I understood the roughneck aspect of it, like reading the script, all those dynamics felt very real to me. Like a guy, in general terms, a father who has his sense of failure, right? Who blew it. Who blew it. And, you know, as a parent, it doesn't take a lot to do that thought exercise.

Imagine waking up and my kid's in her 20s and she's in prison in another country. And I feel responsible for how her life turned out because I wasn't around. And I think, you you know the guy you they allude to the fact that he he was drinking and he was an addict and that is the experience right of waking you wake up and you're like wait a minute what how the fuck did i get here and also you've got wreckage and you've got wreckage and his and his the situation with his wife his ex-wife right his i don't want to even tip that because because way this story unfolds, because it's so smartly written, you know, is that you're

finding things out. There's nothing dumped at the beginning of the movie where you're like, this is the guy, he's going to do this thing, and this is what he's been through. It all happens, it unfolds as you're watching it. You pick them up kind of mid-life.

You kind of parachute into them at the end of their life and you catch up as the movie goes. And I kind of like that. I like that I like watching a movie and not really knowing what the fuck is happening for 10 minutes. Right.

And it all sort of comes together like, oh, man. Yeah, you just have to be careful as a screenwriter that you, I mean, Stephen Soderbergh had a great line. He said to me the other day, we were just talking about this very thing. And he goes, his one-liner was, confusing people does not make you an artist.

Which is great. He's funny. I just talked to that guy. You know, and he's very matter-of-fact. He's very pragmatic about, you know, what is art, what isn't art, what he considers film versus what he considers movies, what the last film he made was and the also the idea of like not uh you know not being a particular brand like you know he doesn't want to he doesn't ever want anyone to go like this feels like a steven soderbergh movie no right his interest is entirely in form i with form i remember having that guy when i did this movie invictus it was a rugby

movie yeah yeah 12 years ago. I remember that movie, yeah. But Clint Eastwood was directing it. At the time, Clint was 79. Yeah. And I remember I called Steven from the set the first day after work because he had been hinting that he was going to retire. Clint or Steven?

No, Steven. Yeah. And I called him. I was like, man, I just got off set with a fucking 80-year-old guy who's having the time of his life. He's doing great work. He's, you know, like, why would you ever? I'm like, this is so fun.

Why would you ever stop? And he instantly just shot back. He goes, because Clint's a storyteller. I'm only interested in form. Yeah. But it doesn't sound celebratory, you know, when he says it. You know, it sounds like this is the burden that I'm dealing with. It's not.

No, sir, I wouldn't say. Yeah, I understand that it might feel. He's a serious guy. He's a very serious guy. And to me, it's what takes up his mental space. He's an intellectual guy. Yeah, and that's what's really interesting to him. And Clint, from what I... He's an intellectual guy. Yeah, and that's what's really interesting to him. But, like, and Clint,

like, from what I understand about working with that guy, he just expects you to do your job. Yeah. And, like, you know, he doesn't want to, you know, get involved. Like, it turns out, like,

and I was sort of surprised to learn this early on, that no directors really want to be acting teachers. Yeah. No, I mean, Tom, who directed this movie,

because he's a fantastic actor, actually. Is that what he set out to do? I think I'm going to interview him. Is that his plan? I think he set out to do all three. I mean, he's a writer, director, and actor. But he's obviously, you know, he's won Academy Awards as a writer and a director. So I think that's what everybody sees him as.

But he's a wonderful actor. Yeah. So you get directors like him or Francis Ford Coppola was, you know, who loved- I love that fucking movie, man. That Rainmaker that you did with him. You know, it's like, I don't know why people don't talk about it enough. Like, it's a weird thing because like, you know, when you think of Coppola, you think of these seminal, these huge movies.

Sure. But like that movie was a great movie. It's probably one of the best grisham movies like that in the firm the best yeah well thanks thanks man i i look it was a it was i mean i got it was a working with francis it was unbelievable um but he but but he loves actors he i mean i i moved to i moved to knoxville tennessee because that's where my character was from, and I bartended for a month for that movie. When I got the part, I jumped in my truck and drove down there, and I bar backed.

I told the owner of this bar, I walked in, I explained that I was an actor. I was like, I'll work for free. I'll give all my tips to the other bartenders. He didn't know you? No. Because you weren't huge then? No, not at all. Yeah.

And so I did that, then i and then francis did like i want to say it was like three weeks of rehearsals up at his place in northern california and the vineyard at the vineyard yeah but he's got a whole yeah you know he has the old rko library he's got a whole rehearsal it's really like a like a like a creative commune up there right yeah and uh and I lived in his house um you know for three weeks and he would do these

improvisations that would go on for days but who was there you and Danny or you and Claire Claire who was like you know

who was part of the crew every actor in that like the whole really yeah Mary Kay Place and John Voight and everybody in the movie came up

Mickey Rourke too uh Mickey I don't remember coming up I don't know if he had been cast at that point oh yeah Mary Kay Place and John Voight and everybody in the movie came up. Mickey Rourke, too? Mickey, I don't remember coming up. I don't know if he had been cast at that point. Oh, yeah. Bruiser. Bruiser. Yeah, man, you really remember. That's great.

Those movies, it's like 25 years ago. I just watched it recently because there's something about that movie that I really like. It's hard to do those kind of stories that are written as books that are completely compelling. There's several different stories, and to sort of carry that off or to pull it off. And knowing it was Francis and then re-watching it again because it was him and trying to just kind of take it in again, I love it.

I love that. I love the comedy in it because it's like you and Danny. I mean, there's no way DeVito's not going to be a comedic character. It's just not going to gonna happen even if he's a serious character right you gotta deal with that guy yeah yeah and he's funny and the two you had it kind of he's great in that movie he's great fucking great yeah

yeah and John Voight too like John oh my god yeah he was great and I remember him saying back then he's like I really got this guy like he knew he was like like he connected with the 95 mile an hour fastball. He was like, yeah, I got into that one. It was all good.

The courtroom stuff was great. All that courtroom stuff was great. Yeah. Yeah. So you were saying you're all working up there with Francis. He just loves actors. Is that the deal? Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, so I guess it was to circle back. It just depends on the director. Some of them don't. Some of them are like, just show up. And like Clint, Clint isn't like, Clint is an actor, but he moves on usually after the first take. Yeah.

You know, and the first day I shot with him, he said that. I asked him for a second take because I had been working on this South African accent for like six months because I knew I wasn't going to get a lot of takes. I really worked hard on it. It's a really fucked up accent. I don't know if like every everything your tongue does in that accent is the opposite of what it does when we speak English the way we do.

Like if you say I'll be right back. Yeah. Think about what your tongue does. They would say I'll be right back. Yeah. And you're like what the fuck just happened? What? So I was like nervous about it

and uh and i said after the first take of the first scene i was like can can we do another one i was like boss can i have another one yeah it's just like why you want to waste everybody's time jesus it's like okay guess we're moving on i'm good if you're good oh shit and that was just the way it was that was it man he's you know he's but coppola will fucking he'll do he'll burn a few oh yeah absolutely most most directors will like you know i i talked to ben affleck about that like he's always he's like i because the soderberghs of the world or spielberg for that matter uh or clint they're cutting in camera right they're cutting it they're editing the movie while they're shooting it in their head yeah well they're just

like uh so the original directors kind of back in the old studio yeah they didn't they didn't edit their own movies yeah so the because the studio controlled the edit what they learned to do was was to only give them material that could be enough right yeah yeah and right and that is a that is a that is a very very hard thing that is a very high skill it's i mean to to to to be able to do that it's it's it's really incredible like john houston i think on his last movie he shot on like 18 000 feet of film the entire film like that is a degree of difficulty that it's just. Is that a lot or a little? Nothing.

Nothing. Nothing. To put it in perspective, I did a screen test for Michael Mann and we shot 18,000 feet of film in a day. Okay. What was that for? For Good Will Hunting. Oh, wow. Yeah.

He was one of the directors who was considering doing it. Okay. And he wanted to put me and Ben on film and see. 18,000 feet? In a day. Yeah. And that's the same amount that John Huston shot The Dead in. The Dead.

Yeah, that's an odd movie, too. So these guys had to. So Clint Eastwood actually told me a great story about this. A great old filmmaker named De Sica, this Italian. Clint was doing like. Bicycle Thief, right? Yes. And he was doing a short film with him when he was in his 20s so this is 70 years ago and he had a line and he

was supposed to say the line as he was walking from one side of the room to the other so as he's making this cross he says the line and desika interrupts him and and clint kind of jokingly says don't you want me to finish the line yeah and he said the second half of the line we're going to be on the other side of the room so he you know and and so don't waste anything no no and but also i don't want anybody to take this away from me this is a now now that is like most you know it just takes so much experience to be able to to do that when we shot saving private ryan steven steven had 10 cameras up on some setups and he would sit there at this bank of monitors and run that run it back yeah and go come here come here watch this and he go we're on this camera we're on this camera we're on this camera and he would point to the exact he loves

it though like he's like a nerd guy right well like a prodigy yeah yeah like he just loves it he loved it well they all love it yeah i guess so but not all of them have 10 cameras set up no not not all of them have the no i mean you know ridley scott you know every every setup has at least four cameras really for the dual one what's that about that's about the last sanctioned duel in medieval france between these two uh knights one of whom uh claimed the other raped his wife and so we wrote it we saw it as a story of these different perspectives yeah so ben and i wrote the male perspectives of the each night oh wait was that the one nicole huff's nicole hoff center writes the female perspective oh yeah yeah yeah she's amazing oh good she's just amazing so it's

good is it good time yeah we had a blast writing it it, and I think it's going to be really good. So it's you and Ben's movie? Ben and I, yeah, Adam Driver and I play the two knights. Right. And Jodie Comer plays the woman, the Lady Marguerite. But you guys wrote it? Amazing. Yeah, Ben and I and Nicole.

Yeah. Yeah. How's that? Why'd you choose that? I mean, it's like, you got to wear the outfit, you got a weird beard. What do you? Yeah, well, I mean. Why that story? I just thought it was really, I read the book. Oh, okay. uh i mean it's like you got to wear the outfit you got a weird beard what do you yeah well i mean why that why that story i just thought it was really i read the book okay so it's based on a

book yeah it's based on a book okay and uh um the guy who runs development for me drew handed it to me a couple uh christmases ago a couple december's i was walking out the door to go on vacation and he said this is your one thing that you have to read. And I read it and I immediately sent it to Ridley because his first movie is called The Duelists. Like I saw the title and I just thought of Ridley. And we had been looking for something to do together again because we did The Martian together

and really had a good experience. That's like such a, would you call that, would you consider that movie a comedy? Well, no the like the golden globes did you mean no no no but i mean because there it's definitely there are definitely prolonged parts of that movie that are are funny you know and they seem sort of played for comedy a little bit when they were shooting it didn't you well i guess there's certainly laughs in the movie and and but i think any like goodwill hunting has a lot of laughs in it yeah you know

what i mean sure but i wouldn't call it a comedy you know what i mean um but uh but yeah i mean i think and for any movie like you can't go two hours without cracking a smile or my god i guess because i'm thinking because the character does at some point become performative and becomes aware that he's doing a bit that he's doing a bit for the cameras because if anybody ever finds these right yeah exactly yeah exactly yeah so all right so you get riddly in on the duel yeah and then uh and we were looking for a writer and um and ben came over for dinner and uh we were just he was like are you working on anything i was like i don't know i've got this thing and and i had come up with this idea of the perspectives with drew goddard who wrote the martian who um but he

and i in this kind of email the series of emails were kind of i felt like we fleshed out what the movie should be yeah and i was explaining it to ben i got well we have to find a writer but here's what here's what i think it is and what would be really interesting yeah um you know the the idea of people kind of looking at the same event and coming away with totally different ideas. Like Rashomon? Similar to Rashomon, yeah, exactly. Everyone's got a different story.

Everyone's got a different story, but it's really based on your kind of, you know, what you're acculturated to believe. So is it built on flashbacks kind of? is it like a story told by people from a this happened in the past perspective it's told from three different perspectives and so you revisit some of things okay and but you're also getting new information from each but but hopefully you're leaving the movie understanding why everyone believes what they believe and what are these stories that we tell us and chivalry and all of these things that um is there like what's what's real man well as i was reading the book yeah the what i mean the first 20 pages i was like you can't how could

you root for any of these people like these are these are you know this is an antecedent culture of you know it's like the in the middle of the Hundred Years War, these people are born into the Hundred Years War. They fight their whole lives, rape, pillage, and die. They're still in the Hundred Years War, right? Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And what was really striking about the book was this woman, because under enormous pressure and the risk of her own life yeah again and again she stood up to power and and and spoke truth to power so that's the important part and

you guys you guys realized early on that like we can't write this woman we have to get a woman to write this woman yeah uh yeah there was someone else in our office we had internal conversations in our office yeah and uh a really great woman who works with us um um helped us see the light and she was right i mean so we and we sat there and we went like well who who can we get and we each put forward a name ben and i did of of like who all right who's the best right and i you know that you know right it's like well tamra jenkins for me and ben said well nicole hollis center and and and i was like okay those are two good yeah fucking geniuses right that i would love to work with uh and why don't we call one of them and and and nicole was in nicole came well the first thing so she was in

ireland with you right yes? Yes. Yeah, yeah. Because she's a producer on the movie and one of the writers and everything. But she showed up. She was like, I don't know how these people talk. And Ben sent her, like, we'd written like 20 rough pages. Yeah. Like nothing really. Yeah.

And Ben's like, yeah, we're going to meet with Nicole today. I sent her that 20 pages. I'm like, you what? No, you didn't. I'm like, how could you're going to meet with Nicole today. I sent her that 20 pages. I'm like, you what? No, you didn't. I'm like, how could you do that? This is so embarrassing. It was like, I felt like he just like. Betrayed you?

Just stripped us down naked in front of one of the great writers. But it actually had, I think she saw, she was like, oh, you guys don't know what you're doing either. All right, I'll jump in with you guys. And she did, which was great because she's just so wonderful. And it came out. How long did it take you to get it all done, the script? It didn't take, I mean, it was only a few months. Really? It really, we really, you know, then when I was doing Stillwater, Ridley and Nicole came over and we'd have script meetings.

In Spain? In Marseille, yeah, in France. And then Nicole and I would do some work. But it came together pretty quickly. Wow. And so how many does this make that you've written with Ben? This is the second one. It's only the second one.

So this is like, what, 30 years apart? Just about, yeah. And like, was the process the same as writing Good Will Hunting? No, that's what was really, really funny. Funny was that we hadn't written for so long because the assumption was we couldn't, we didn't have the time because Good Will Hunting took us so long

because we didn't have any idea what we were doing. We were kids, right? But like, you've both become you know movie stars and you know at least one of you has had some fairly public personal struggles right you've remained friends the whole time oh yeah yeah yeah but we and we've and we've spent our adult lives making movies so we just we we wrote really fast because we actually just by osmosis over the last 25 or 30 years understand structure now like with goodwill hunting we wrote thousands of pages like what we understood were the characters

right and we'd go all right what if there's a scene where we take your character and my character and we put them you know on a construction site okay let's write that scene and we could write that scene we could write forever we just didn't have anything to do we didn't have anything but we didn't know that that it would fit into a movie and cohere into some kind of narrative. So now he's directed and written. You fucking have done your business. Right. Produced.

Right. And so the process was actually really fun. And we kind of left going like, oh, man, let's do this again. Like this was really, we can actually do this and not. Freak out. Yeah. And not consume your entire life. Consume our entire life.

Yeah. Now you guys, you hang out, you've remained friends the whole time. You guys are tight. Oh yeah. Yeah. That's nice. I always wondered that about people. Cause a lot of times they don't hang out.

You know, like people who, you know, it's sort of like, you talk to that guy. I haven't seen him since that movie. I'm like, wow. Well, it is a business that like you come together and have these intense working relationships with people for like four months and then you- Never want to see him again. No, it's not even that. I remember I was doing this movie,

The Good Shepherd, that Robert De Niro was directing. Yeah. And we were shooting. We shot a few days in London. And as we were in London, we were shooting a night and Terry Gilliam came down. days in London and uh as we were in London um we were shooting a night and uh and uh Terry Terry Gilliam came down because he I had worked with him a few years earlier on what on the Brothers Grimm oh yeah yeah and uh and when we broke for lunch which was dinner because we were

shooting a night we all uh went to Chez Jay which is this little place in the west end and sat down. And Terry and Bob looked at each other, and they realized it had been 20 years since they did Brazil. Yeah. And they both kind of nodded like, fuck, wow. Yeah. Wow. It's weird about sets and about the intensity of the time because it really is otherworldly.

Because a lot of times you get done, and I imagine you've done a lot more than me you get offset and you go back to your life right right right and you have a life that you that requires and that was like a whole other life for but it's a it's intensified it's just a four month life that's right six month life yeah and it's a community and it's a little town and it's a family and then you just sort of like you all understand that like, all right. That's it. Yeah. We're done.

I remember saying that to Coppola at the end of the Rainmaker. I said, I just said, I sat down with him and I said, I just, I've had the best time. It was like this unbelievable experience. It was so great. And I said, I really hope we can do this again. And he looked at me and completely earnestly said so do i yeah and i remember thinking wait but you're francis ford coppola can't you just make it happen and it kind of hit me like oh no it's like we're all reacting to the we gotta we gotta go where the material

takes us and it's so weird isn't it yeah but you do a lot of stuff you seem to like to work no matter we like you seem to do little things for fun yeah i just love to do it so it's like when someone calls me and you like to act yes yeah i i love it it's it's it's what i what i would like to do in my free time yeah so when somebody calls me and says hey i have a cameo i'm i'm usually in you know just because i think it'll be fun it's so well even like in i just watched that that last Soderbergh movie, which you don't have a huge part, but it's like a pretty powerful couple of scenes.

Yeah, it was a little cameo, and I had read the script because I usually read what Stephen's doing. Yeah. And so I knew the script, and it's like he called me up. I was doing The Last Duel. I was in Ireland, and he said,

hey, do you want to play this part? And I was like, yeah, are you kidding me? I mean, it's a scene with two of my favorite actors. It's Cheadle and Benicio. I'm like, yeah, absolutely. So that was the thing. It's like, I want to work with those guys. Yeah.

And they're my buddies. And Stephen's my friend. And it's like, he's, you know, I want to be. And you think like, well, how many days was it? Like three days? No, not even. It was like a day and a half. Oh, so you're friend, and it's like, he's, you know, I want to be. It's like, and you think like, what, how many days was it? Like three days? No, not even. It was like a day and a half. Oh, so you're like, fuck it.

Yeah, they were in Detroit. Yeah. Fly out to Detroit. Come on, let's see. Day and a half. Because I think a lot of people don't realize that, that a lot of the consideration around taking parts is like, all right, how long am I going to have to be in, you know, Vancouver or the Arctic or wherever?

Yeah, that's right. I mean, depending on what your home life is like and what your family's needs are and all that, you have to weigh all of that stuff. Yeah, but it's not as all immersive as people think. Even if it's like three weeks, you can shoot a movie in three weeks. Sure, yeah.

I mean- And it's not terrible. No, I've done it. No, you can get a lot done. I mean, it's also if it's a scene, like Robin Williams' part in Good Will Hunting was three weeks. That was it. Yeah.

I mean, those are big, long, chunky scenes. They're like five-page scenes. Like everything, you know, he had pages of monologues in that movie. So it was a shitload of work for him. But they stacked it into three weeks and he just was ready. And it lasts forever. You put the three weeks in and then it's like eternal. You have this eternal piece of film that goes on forever.

Yeah. And on the flip side, you can do Apocalypse Now and be there for a year. Right? And still not be done. And still not be done. Have you ever had that situation where you're stuck on a set and you're like, when is this going to? Yeah.

I mean, I've had, without naming the movie, I've had, you know, I consider that to actually, I came to consider that to be the definition of a professional actor. Oh, right. Is knowing you're in a turkey. Oh, really? Yeah, and going like, all right, all right,

I got four more months of like 15 hours a day. It's like like it's the up at dawn siege for four months on like on hamburger hill yeah like i'm definitely gonna die here but and knowing it's doing it's not gonna be great yeah yeah it's that's that's as shitty as you can feel creatively, I think. That's a long four months, right? Yeah. Yeah. I can't. It's awful. Yeah. It's a feeling I really hope to avoid.

I hope to never have that feeling. I think maybe you're past it, but you don't know. I mean, sometimes the pedigree can be great, and you get there, and you're like, I don't That's the thing. You're only, I mean, it's what I say to my daughter, who gives me shit all the time. I'm like, we don't get to see the movie before we make it. Why is she giving you shit? Oh, she's just fucking funny. Yeah. She just likes giving me shit all the time. I'm like, we don't get to see the movie before we make it. Why is she giving you shit? Oh, she's just fucking funny.

She just likes giving me shit. Like, is she hard on you about your acting? Yeah, I mean, playfully hard. Yeah, yeah. Like, she doesn't go to see my movies. On purpose. On purpose.

On the ones she thinks might be good. How old is she? 15. But she's like, she crushes me on the ones that don't work. I mean, and she's, and she's just really funny.

So I'm like, I let her do it. You just take it. Oh my God. Yeah. I mean, like what, like what did she say?

Uh, like on which movies? So I did a movie called the great wall, which, um, all right. That was, you got a little flack for that for playing an Asian guy.

No, no, I was playing a European guy. Okay. But what was the flack? I don't remember. Uh, the flack was when the poster came out, uh, there was playing a European guy. Okay. What was the flack? I don't remember. The flack was when the poster came out, there was a lot of kind of like,

what is he doing on the Great Wall? Right. And is this cultural appropriation? I, you know, look, I saw the movie as, it's the exact same plot as Lawrence of Arabia dances with wolves, Avatar. it's outsider comes into a culture finds value in the culture brings some skill from the outside that aids them in their fight against whatever yeah and they're all changed forever right look for me it was like a

like zhang yimou who was one of my favorite directors in the world yeah and whose movies i love was in you know he came to la and said do you want to be in my movie and i'm like are you kidding me you're gonna do like your avatar like yeah uh shit yeah i'd love to do that and um did it do well no oh no it didn't you know so that so he there was a there was a point like a little ways into that movie where I had to speak through a translator with him because I speak no Mandarin and he speaks no English. Yeah. And we had this great translator named Frank. And I said, Frank, in this scene, I'm supposed to do this, but can you ask the director?

This doesn't feel right, and can he help me understand whatever it was? And so Frank translates, and Johnny Mo comes back, and Frank says, yes, the director agrees with you, but says, since this is a Hollywood movie. And I was like, oh, God, no. No. No. And it was this thing where he was consciously making Hollywood. What he perceived to be a Hollywood movie and what his Hollywood partners perceived that had convinced him that they wanted. Right.

It was like this. And I was like, this is exactly how disasters happen. Yeah. Right. And I was like, Frank, please tell him I came here to be in one of his movies. And how'd that go? You know, and no, it just was the train had left the station. It was just.

Yeah. And that movie, you know, at any rate, whatever. It's one of those movies where you go, you look at the ingredients. The keys of every department are some of the best in the business. Right. So the production designer, you know, every like really, really like boss people with this world class director-class director yeah at the at the helm and i go like i'm i'm in and it's an experience it's like i'm gonna go to china and and yeah of course you know this is gonna be amazing um but it doesn't cohere it doesn't work as a movie and um

and your daughter knows it and my daughter really knows it and so she she read she's talking about the movie she calls it the wall and when people like, when we have people over for dinner, I'm like, come on. It's called The Great Wall. And she's like, Dad, there's nothing great about that movie. So she's really funny. And yeah, she's like one of the funniest people I know, which has turned me into that kid who gets bullied. Who's like, nice burn. Two is bully.

You've got three daughters? I've got, well, four. So when I met my wife, she'd been married before me, and she had a four-year-old. That's a lot of kids. That's a lot of kids. That four-year-old is now 23, so that went fast. Wow.

And where do you spend most of your time, New York? We're moving to New York, yeah, I'm back to New York. We lived there, and we lived in Florida for five years years that's where my wife lived when i met her and uh in miami in miami yeah wow yeah and then we moved up to new york that's crazy in miami yeah well it's different now i mean i lived there from i don't know i want to say oh four to oh eight or nine it's always like my mother uh lives down there, and it's just, there's no place like Florida. It's fucking weird.

Miami's its own thing. Yeah, that's for sure. Yeah, but I mean, if you live there, it's kind of like living in Las Vegas. Like, I've worked a lot in Las Vegas, where I've had to post up there for two, two and a half months. Yeah. You really get into the real rhythm.

Right. You look at all the people who are, two and a half months. Yeah. You really get into the real rhythm. Right. You know, you look at all the people who are like, ah, and they come in and like. Right. And South Beach is like that. You see people come in out of their minds. But there is a groove to it. Oh, yeah, yeah. There's a really cool.

It's nice. Food's good. Food's great. Yeah. Like, great culture. It's like. Yeah, no, I know. It's nothing against it.

All of these, it's like the capital city of South America, right? Right. Like, everybody comes up. Yeah. Yeah. And so it's a very, like my wife's Argentinian and her family is, so it's like there are all these other things going on there that aren't South American. Oh, it's like a full spectrum of the Latino experience.

Totally. Yeah. Like all different kinds. Yeah. Yeah. I get that. And then there's Jews and rednecks up north. Totally.

Yeah. It's crazy. It's crazy. It's like, you know, just driving there, you're like, holy shit. It's so densely populated. It's nuts. Yeah. But how, like on all these movies, are you this, like for any major part you do, have

you always been as immersive as that to where, because I remember, what movie was that where you played a junkie? Oh, Courage Under Fire. There's a great role. Yeah, and I remember it because you really kind of like you lost a ton of weight So this was always your approach that you were gonna like take a month and work as a bar back I mean that not everyone does that right? Is that because you were? What made you make those kind of decisions to be that kind of actor when did just just an attempt to distinguish my number one to do the best work

that i could do i thought that was the best way forward but number two to kind of kind of carve out a career right but like what what like because some people are just good at pretending right yeah and some people take a more method approach which i would imagine that's what you're doing yeah but you can't pretend what you don't know right so it's like so i mean can you pretend you mean you can't pretend to be a roughneck if you've never been on an oil rig i mean you could in a sketch but like if unless you go down there and understand like there's a certain way they talk and walk and everything came from me just being around them a little bit but it just seems to me i mean i'm and i'm like i that it's a it's a choice of craft like you know i imagine that some people watch some tapes or make some assumptions or listen to the director

and build a character out of their ass and do okay with it sure right but you've decided to go in this a method like immersive direction did you learn that early on or did it was just a choice? How, where'd you learn how to act initially? Well, I studied it all through kind of high school. We had this incredible high school drama teacher, Ben, and I did and it was a, you know, it was all I ever really wanted to do. Was that like, do you find that when you think about how you do it,

you learned everything you kind of know there that time? A lot of it. A lot of it. Did you know my cousin? Did you know Mr. Hutch? Mr. Hutch? Yeah. Where?

He taught at one of their schools. He taught the, I don't think he taught you, but he taught both Affleck brothers, Mr. Hutchison. Mr. at Ringe? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, my God. All right. Yeah, yeah.

It's my cousin's husband. Oh, wow. And I've interviewed Casey, and I didn't realize that. I didn't ask him. Oh, right, right. Yeah, I never had him. I never had him, but I remember him. So, but do you think back on that?

It's like everything you learned was sort of there? A lot of it. A lot of it. Yeah. A lot of it. Certainly the work ethic. That teacher, Jerry Specka was his name. He was just incredible, and he was so serious and made us take our work so seriously and care.

In high school. In high school, yeah. It was all about really kind, you know, really, really kind of building a work ethic. Is that guy still around? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he doesn't teach at the high school anymore, but. But do you guys stay in touch with him throughout? I haven't talked to him since I haven't worked back in Boston since the departed. And that was like, I think the last time I saw Jerry, which is again,

it's, you know, that's somehow 15, 16 years ago. And like, I don't know how that time went past, but there you have it. I just like Martin Sheen just falling through frame from that building. Right. It's a great shot. It's like, why am I looking at the side of a building?

And then it's like, oh, there goes Marty Sheen. Old Marty Sheen. Oh, you and Wahlberg were great in that he's like you know when you like when you work with people like i i talked to ethan hawke once uh about training day he brought up training and he's like um preparing for that movie he literally watched denzel movies like they were training films like like game films like he really yeah that's funny yeah he's like i'm not gonna let him take it i'm not gonna i gotta you know i gotta figure out a way to you know to survive in a scene with that guy right and hold the frame do you ever think that way no i i i

always think of it as a cooperative uh yeah proposition you know what i mean but uh some people think of it as a competition or i think he just wanted to survive because he knew that like that part that hit you know denzel's part in that movie was going to eat the entire i mean that's an it's an amazing role yeah it's a great role for a great actor too so yeah it's like how do you not just like be like you know why is there any oxygen left for me? Right, yeah, no, I totally get it. I remember, and funny that you say that because I remember on Courage Under Fire,

Denzel bristling a little bit. Like, as I came in and I had lost all that weight and the scene that we did, I mean, because Denzel's great in that movie as he is in everything. The scene that we did was, he's because Denzel's great in that movie as he is in everything. Yeah. The scene that we did was he's interviewing me. So it was really my scene.

He's just asking these questions. Right. And at the end of the day, he goes, when do I see you again? And I was like, next Thursday, sir,

we're going to do a scene out by the lake. He was like, I don't know. I mean, I got to act as gaining weight, losing weight, coming, you know.

And he was like, I was like, oh, the big man. Wait a minute. I'm like. You shook him up a little. Yeah, shook him up. But, you know, I mean, I'm like, you'll get yours, dude. You are the man. So that's funny.

Because that was smart of Ethan. Because he's like, that's the way he thinks. Well, I mean, but it's like sometimes, you know, I remember talking to Edward Norton about that on Rounders. Like, there was this, like, I just, it's as the lead of the movie. Yeah. Sometimes you're just carrying the water. You know, you have a certain job you got to do.

And you got to make room. And you're making room. And all these people are, like, going off around you. And you're like, it's not, I'm not, I'm not the, that's not my job on this one. Well, you just got to hold it. You got to hold it. Right. Yeah.

I mean, I get it. I get it. And it's not my job on this one. Well, you just got to hold it. You got to hold it. Right. Yeah, I mean, I get it. And it's gracious and it's appropriate and it's the right thing to do to provide space. Right. Like when you said you like to act, it reminded me of a story that Rob Reiner told me. I think it was Reiner. It was probably Reiner where, you know, in A Few Good Men where Nicholson, when he's on the stand, you know, and Tom Cruise is going at him. Like he would stay there for their coverage.

Sure. You know, and go all in. Yeah. You know? Sure. And Reiner, I think, said, you know, you don't have to go all in. You know, you can just do the lines for them.

And it's nice of you to stay there. He goes, I love to act. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, that was a beautiful scene too. So, I mean, you could imagine wanting to do that one. And what was it like working with him at the age he was at for Departed? Oh, it was amazing. Yeah.

It was just amazing. Do you pick stuff up from these guys? Yeah, a ton. I mean, I remember the very first time I rehearsed with him was at his hotel in New York. And I went up with Marty and it was just the three of us. And Marty got up to use the restroom, I think. So it was just the two of us.

And Jack got up to grab a cup of coffee from the little thing. And he turned around and he goes, you know, I never would have made it this long if i wasn't a great fucking writer and i remember thinking of course right like how would you how do you have a 45 year career yeah if you you know and that was my my real takeaway from him was this was my favorite story of the departed with jack was because he would go home and he couldn't sleep because he was so, he was working. He was just working on this thing and coming up with stuff.

So he had a scene which was, this was really instructive for me as an actor. The scene was one eighth of a page and it said, Costello, that's his character's name, executes a man kneeling in the marsh.

That's all it said. And so, you know, you're on a long movie. You look at that. You're like, okay, I don't have any lines tomorrow. It's just one-eighth of a page. I shoot a guy in the back of the head. And Jack came. I didn't work that day.

I came the next day, and Jack was so excited. He was like, wait till you hear what I did. And I was like, tell me, tell me. Got my coffee and sat down like, what'd you do? And he goes, well, it was an eighth of a page. It said, Costello executes man kneeling in the marsh. And he goes, you know, I've seen that before. He goes, so what I did is I made it a woman.

And I go, oh, okay. And he goes, and I put Ray in the scene with me. Yeah. And Ray Winston, he's a great actor. He was playing Jack's right hand man. Yeah, I know. He's great. And Jack's thing was he goes, I'm from the Harvey Korman school.

Sorry, but I say Harvey Korman. Hilarious. Harvey Korman,, or the, sorry, but I say Harvey Korman. Yeah, Harvey, hilarious. Harvey Korman, hilarious. The Roger Korman school of, where I came up, low budget,

whatever, whatever writing you do, you can't add to the budget. Right. It can't cost us money. Yeah. So he goes, the Roger Korman school,

he goes, you, he goes, I, we're gonna keep it in this same shot, right? I'm not going to add any time or money to the schedule. He goes, but I shoot her in the back of the head and she falls over. Yeah.

Now you could end the scene there. But if you keep the camera rolling, I turn to Ray and I say, geez, she fell funny. Now that's a very sinister line. It suggests that I've done this before and there's a way that people fall. Yeah. He goes, now you could end the scene there. But if you leave the camera rolling, Ray reveals an axe that he's holding behind his back. He's going to chop her up. So Ray starts to step forward.

Now, you could end the scene there. But if you leave the camera rolling, I say, wait. I think I want to fuck her again. Now, that's a very sinister line. I'm like, Jesus. He goes, and now there's a pause. Now. I'm like, Jesus. He goes, he goes, and now there is a pause.

Now you could end the scene there. Right. But if you, if you keep the camera rolling, yeah. Ray gives me a look. And after a long pause, I go,

ah, like I got him, you know? Yeah. Right. Right. Right. And you could end the scene there.

But if you keep the camera rolling yeah ray says to me francis you really ought to see somebody and so that so he tells me that and so the scene as it as it might i recall from the movie is actually because he that's there's so many options all he did was take one more minute. Yeah. Right? He took a lot of time writing that and figuring that out on his own. Thinking out beat for beat. Yeah. But all it added to production was one minute. Yeah.

They had two angles on it. Yeah. Right? So you add nothing but one minute to your production time. And what ended up being in the movie, I think, was he shoots her. He says, geez, she fell funny yeah and ray says francis you really ought to see someone right somebody so i can't remember why did he shoot a woman i can't remember just because he he's like it's different from shooting a guy no i know but

i can't remember her character i can't remember that happening i think she was like nondescript i can't remember if we'd established her somewhere already established or something else in the movie uh i don't i haven't seen the movie in 15 years but but but just that that the process that that yeah that's his creative process that's his creative you don't always have that freedom to do that you don't you don't but that's why when he did yeah he wasn't letting any of those moments go by even if they seemed like throwaway moments and scorsese was open yes yeah of course of course because you shoot all of it right you're never going to use all of it. Right.

But you're going to use some of it. You don't quite know where. And as he and Thelma were, his editor, great editor, they're figuring out the pace of the movie. You know, you go, oh, we can allow for that here. This is okay. Let's drop this in here. You know what I mean?

The weird comedy beat. Right, right. Exactly, exactly. And DiCaprio, you guys, have you guys worked together again? No, that was it. That was weird, right? Isn't it? I mean, yeah.

I mean, I was, look, I was happy that one even fell into my lap. I was, you know, for Mark and for me, that's, you know, that's our home turf. Right. Right. You know that zone. Yeah. The Boston. What's that line Wahlberg has?

It's like, I'm the guy doing my job. You must be the other guy. He had so many great lines in that movie. That was a really great character. It was crazy. Yeah. And that look on your face when he comes in to shoot you, that's the best. You're just like, I can't.

All right, go ahead. So, you didn't finish Harvard, right? No. Did like it oh i loved it no i loved it i i uh i went what did you get from that experience like well i mean because i i weirdly judge harvard people oh really i'm not really judging you oh no not in a bad way it just seems like you for the most of them that i've met the one thing that they get is this sort of relentless confidence in their own ambition. That's really funny. Yeah, I mean, look, I grew up in Cambridge, so I was a very different type of Harvard student because I had a very different. Where was your, what part of town?

Central Square. Oh, you were in Central Square. Do you remember that restaurant, O Calcutta? Of course, yeah. That was the first place I had Indian food. It's the best. No shit. Yeah, man. Look Central Square. Do you remember that restaurant, Oh Calcutta? Of course, yeah. That was the first place I had Indian food. It's the best. No shit. Yeah, man.

Look at it, got a Newberry Comics shirt on. Oh my God, yeah. I mean, I was in Boston from like 81 to on and off through 80 through 90, 91. I was there. I was there the whole time. Yeah. Yeah, Ben's dad was the bartender at the CanTab. Oh yeah, that's right.

I think I talked to Casey about that a bit. So what about your folks? So my mom was a professor at Lesley College. She taught early childhood education. Yeah, yeah. And my dad was in the 70s. He was a stockbroker. Then he taught school for a year. He ended up, he found a little niche in the tax laws whereby big corporations could get tax credits for investing in low-income housing.

Yeah. And he figured that out and just facilitated a bunch of those deals. And he did really well. And he helped people. And he helped people. Yeah. And he retired when he was 53 and went and coached baseball. Really?

Yeah, high school baseball. Is he still around? No. Oh, sorry, man. He's 17. Thank you. Yeah. Your mom?

She's here. Yeah, she's here. I'll see her. I'm going to New York tomorrow, so I'll see her in New York. Oh, she's coming down? She's going to come down for the premiere in New York. Oh, that's exciting. Yeah, yeah.

Especially after this fucking year, man, because, you know. Yeah. Her age, that cohort that's been the they've been yeah yeah yeah that's scary well and just and just kept away from their own grandkids and kids just nightmare sucked for them so okay so you grew up in cambridge so you know the tasty i we shot the last thing in goodwill hunting that's right in the tasty right before they fucking tore it down and put a, I forget, like Benetton or whatever.

There's nothing there. They've gutted everything. Yeah, no, it looks like Anaheim. I used to work, you know, when I went back to Boston after I got all fucked up on drugs out here for a year, I went back to Boston. I was living in Somerville. Yeah, we lived there. Yeah, on Cottage Ave.

My mom still lives there. Oh, really? Yeah. Before it was anything, right? Yeah, yeah right yeah yeah and uh and they i just remember i remember when they opened a dunkin donuts downstairs or around the corner from where i lived but some of it was like the one in davis square or the one davis yeah that's the one ben and i lived on where was orchard street oh yeah um and i used to walk to that dunkin donuts every morning oh god when they came out with the big one remember like it was

like a big thing. Now it's just a large coffee. But there was like this big one, regular. Well, because they had to sell us the idea that we needed that much of any fluid. Now we just accept it. I know. But there's still something fucked up about Dunkin' Donuts. I'll buy the beans.

Oh, so do I, dude. Oh, my God. It jacks you up. We tried to, like, when they franchised it out here, Ben and I tried to get in on that. We were like- There's only, like, one. It's over in Atwater. There's maybe two.

I think there's one in Santa Monica. Right, right, right. But that's it. I mean, on the East Coast, they're, like, fucking everywhere. Yeah. Like, you panic. You're like, there's got to be a Dunkin' around, right? And then you go find one.

I never buy a fucking donut there, though. It's always the coffee. Well, just as older i just can't i can't eat the donuts i love the donuts but so you come up and you grew up in cambridge like the tasty i used to work at the coffee connection in the garage really yeah i worked at the dance plus in the garage i did it was a summer job my job was to stand stand outside and hand out flyers to people. Really? 50% off for Capizios. Is the garage still even there?

I think so. The Coffee Connection was pre-Starbucks. If you got a coffee and sat down to drink it, you had to get it in a French press. That was the gimmick. And that guy, the guy who owned the place, was traveling all over the world getting beans. And I was just there living in Somerville drinking way too much fucking coffee. And I go back to Somerville. I'm living in an attic room.

And I couldn't sleep. So I'd end up at the Tasty talking to that dude Mike. Yeah, Mike. Yeah. It's so funny. I was just talking about Mike the other day. I don't know what happened to Mike. With someone.

I can't. Everyone's like, do you know Mike? And I was like, fuck yeah, I knew Mike. Yeah. Everybody who went in there after midnight knew Mike. Yeah. And Mike was like a regular guy. Yeah. And there was that weird guy that played guitar named Mike. Yeah. Everybody who went in there after midnight knew Mike. Yeah. And Mike was like a regular guy. Yeah.

And there was that weird guy that played guitar named Luke who was around. Yeah, Luke. Yeah. Jesus, man. Yeah, Luke. I mean, yeah. I dated a girl in high school who just was like obsessed with Luke and used to get the pamphlets.

Yeah. Because he didn't have a permit. He wasn't allowed to say that he was performing. He had to kind of act like he just showed up. Right. But he the word out and it was like you know i mean obon pan was like was packed with people every time he was singing yeah yeah yeah yeah you know that was a great spot it was so sad that i'm really happy that we got it in the movie it's so weird what happened to all of boston like even like i i went, so Kenmore Square, all that stuff is gone. Whatever personality

both Harvard Square and Kenmore Square had, even Central Square to a degree. Central Square is totally different. It's gone. It was fucking dangerous when I lived there.

It was a nightmare, yeah. When you grew up there, right? Yeah, yeah, man. And it was scary.

And then the Middle East came. Yeah, the Middle East, Nabil and Joseph who owned the Middle East. my brother brother you know they're great and they would put uh local artists on the wall and my brother was one of the artists that they put on the wall and he met his wife like 27 years ago i remember that right because

she was yes she was she was a graphic designer for the MIT Tech Review and wanted one of his paintings for the cover, and that's how they met in 1990. Fuck. Actually, it might even be 1991. Wow. One or two. Yeah. A long, long time ago.

Yeah. Maybe 30 years ago. Is your brother still an artist? Yeah, yeah, yeah. What's his thing? Mixed medium. He's like painting sculpture. And it's just the two of artist? Yeah, yeah, yeah. What's his thing? Mixed medium. He's like painting sculpture. And it's just the two of you?

Yeah. Wow. So two Afflecks, two Damons. Yeah. Yeah, the Damons are older though. I'm two years older than Ben, five years older than Casey, and then my brother's three years older than me. So your experience at Harvard was different

because you felt like you came up there? Yeah. I mean, I walked in with a chip on my shoulder, I think a little bit as, you know, we, cause we all kind of resented the, you know, it's always that Rocky marriage between the local kids and the, you know, the interlopers. Yeah. So you guys felt scrappy. A little bit, a little bit. And, you know, and my freshman year, crappy a little bit yeah a little bit yeah and you know and my freshman year you know ben's dad was the uh head of all the janitorial staff in harvard yard and the freshmen all live in harvard yard so ben's dad's girlfriend at the time connie was the janitor in my dorm yeah right so these people you grew up with yeah so it was kind of like you know when i would see you know freshmen yeah he's 18 year old kids like like throwing shit around be like you know, freshman, 18-year-old kids, like, throwing shit around.

I'd be like, you know, fuck you. Someone's got to clean that up. You know what I mean? Someone I know. Someone I know is actually going to clean it up. So, yeah, I was a little chippy. But I think, you know, somewhere out of that, Good Will Hunting kind of, you know, and I should say, like, the last year I was there, I took this great playwriting class,

and that's where I started this idea of Good Will Hunting. Yeah. Who taught that? I took this great playwriting class and that's where I started this idea of Good Will Hunting. Who taught that? A guy named Anthony Kubiak was the name of the professor. He was really, really great. I took a bunch of classes of his. I really liked him and he was incredibly helpful. And in fact, when I turned, I was supposed to write a one-act play for the final project, and I handed in 45 pages of...

Of Good Will Hunting? Yeah, of a screenplay. Yeah. It was very different. Obviously, Ben and I changed it, but I handed it in and was like, I think I failed your class. Like, this isn't what you asked for,

but this is kind of what came out, and he could not have been more effusive and supportive and encouraging. He said, you know, please don't stop with this. Please keep going. There's something here. Yeah. And then I went out to L.A. to audition for stuff during spring break, like a month later. Yeah.

That's when I showed it to Ben. And Ben said the same thing. He said, I don't know where to go, but let's keep working on it. So we did. That's so nice when a teacher does the right thing. Yeah. No, I mean-

As opposed to be competitive or condescending. He could have completely- Shut you down. Yeah. And I would have listened. Right. I mean- Right.

I would have listened. Wild, man. The impact people have in our lives. Yeah. Well, it was great talking to you, pal. Yeah, man. The impact people have in our lives. Yeah. Well, it was great talking to you, pal. Yeah, man. Thanks.

Great talking to you, too. That was fast. Yeah, I think we covered a lot of stuff. Yeah. I like the movie, man. I always like your work. You always, you know, you're one of the best. And, you know, it's nice of you to say, man. Thanks.

It's for real, you know. Like, anytime you're in something, it's sort of like, well, that's going to be good. You know, and you can do anything. Do you have a good time on those Oceans movies? Yeah, those are great. Isn't that the whole idea of those things? Yeah, to kind of capture the joy of making them. But you, I mean, it seems like you, it's like genuinely, like even like everybody, like you and Clooney, and even like Scott Conn and Affleck.

Casey and Scott, yeah, they're really great. It's like all these different comedy bits going on. Yeah, yeah. The heavy lifting on those movies is done by Steven. Yeah. I mean, that's a hard job, right? Managing that. Manage these guys.

Yeah, it's like- Truckload of movie stars. It's like wrangling cats, right? Like nobody's taking it seriously enough. And you're trying to balance all these different narratives and make a movie that, uh, works.

And, um, and it's funny too. Now he, but that's all organic. Like, I mean, Soderbergh seems like a serious guy,

but he obviously has a good sense of comedy. I mean, Oh my God. Yeah. The informant was great. Yeah. That's one of my favorites. Oh,

it's so funny to have been on. Yeah. And also the, uh, behind the candelabra has i mean i there's some hilarious shit in that sad ass movie yeah dude you know we've talked about we've talked there there i hope we can do like a sequel to that like is that possible with that guy that post post what happened to him after like oh interesting um was not great right i mean i i just remember reading articles at the

time the movie came out i mean there would be you know we would have to get richard le gravenez if interested to write it but you know it we could do it in 10 10 years or whatever but that was another you were great uh again great talking thanks man thanks mark Okay, the movie that Matt is in is called Stillwater, directed by Tom McCarthy, who did Spotlight. It's a great movie. It's a great movie. You know, it's a surprising movie in a way that, you know, is about surprising in how it depicts humanity.

I'm not saying it's surprising in its humanity, but maybe it is. I don't want to spoil nothing. Also, tour dates, if you didn't hear me because you forwarded through it, are at WTFpod.com slash tour. There are dates in Denver, Phoenix, Arizona, Salt Lake City,, Utah St. Louis, Missouri Bloomington, Indiana And I will be adding more Dynasty typewriter dates at some point It feels that way to me Okay?

Okay? Let's rumble a little Let's do the swampy rumble Thank you. Thank you. Boomer lives. Monkey. Lavanda. Cat angels everywhere, man. Cat angels fucking everywhere, man. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence.

Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talked to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative.

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