WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1258 - Zoe Lister-Jones

Episode Date: September 2, 2021

When Zoe Lister-Jones found herself dealing with the anxiety and uncertainty we all encountered during the pandemic, she made a movie about the end of the world. Marc talks with Zoe about how she often finds herself channeling her fears into her work, including a filmography which she calls a direct investigation of lifelong codependency. They talk about Zoe's start in acting, growing up with artists, and her experience jumping into studio filmmaking with The Craft remake. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

It's winter, and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost almost anything. So no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats. But meatballs, mozzarella balls, and arancini balls? Yes, we deliver those. Moose? No. But moose head? Yes. Because that's alcohol, and we deliver that too.

Along with your favorite restaurant food, groceries, and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. Be honest. When was the last time you thought about your current business insurance policy? If your existing business insurance policy is renewing on autopilot each year without checking out Zensurance, you're probably spending more than you need. That's why you need to switch to low-cost coverage from Zensurance before your policy renews this year. Zensurance does all the heavy lifting to find a policy,

covering only what you need, and policies start at only $19 per month. So if your policy is renewing soon, go to Zensurance and fill out a quote. Zensurance. Mind your business. Lock the gate! all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fuck sticks what's happening i'm mark maron this is my podcast wtf it's called how's it going these shows that you're listening to now were done last week because we needed to get this week done.

Because my producer, Brendan, is taking some R&R with the fam, as they say, when you have a fam and take R&R. Me, I don't know from that. and take R&R. Me, I don't know from that. But so this is actually occurring the day after I played Largo with my band, the unnamed band, because I didn't want to name them out of a sense of insecurity. I just wanted to play. And many of you knew about the lead up and what was at stake. It's very interesting what was at stake, which was, as I explained it to you all a while back, it was the trauma, the trauma of failure, the trauma of failure in front of people, which oddly, I made my life. As I talked to you weeks before the performance about the final show at music camp where i crapped out with a bunch of guys who were wasted i don't need to recap the story the movement towards

performing on stage in the capacity that i did last night which would have been last week a few listening now was to just sort of own it, be the band leader, do the singing, pick the songs, and do it with enough confidence to where I wasn't falling into myself on stage. I wasn't trying to disappear as I perform on stage. The magic of insecurity is not entertaining, which means if you're up there trying to do a show of any kind, but inside you're like, I don't want to be here. I'm going to check out.

I'm going to leave my body here and and see if they can see that magic. Of course, they can see it. You'll fail because you've left. You've left your body. It's not impressive. Even I don't even think it would be impressive if you set it up like that. If you said, now I'm going to leave my body and let my empty machine perform for you while I go elsewhere and feel bad about what I dragged that machine through. So I don't know if you'll see this magic, but it's happening. If you present it like that, people will be like, oh, this sounds like it should be good.

It's not good. It's not. It's sad. And it's not entertainment. So ultimately, the attempt was to at least immerse myself in the songs and the playing. At least have enough belief in my singing and my playing to do it with this group of guys that I've chosen to support me in this. One of them being Jimmy Vivino, who was going to play a couple songs, but then ended up playing all the songs. He's part of the band and was into it. So I'm playing with Jimmy Vivino, who you know from being Conan's

band leader, who showed me so many licks over the years and let me use so many guitars. Like a real hero of mine, real honor to play with him in a in a way that I hadn't before which was as an equal obviously I'm not I just play what I play and I'm a little jolty and choppy and choky up there but I think that'll that'll that'll kind of ease up it was a good time and we definitely I definitely transcended the trauma. I definitely reconfigured it in my mind. I did active sound therapy on a sound-based trauma, an out-of-tune sound-based trauma.

On the show today, I talked to Zoe Lister-Jones. She came up when I was actually talking to Helen Hunt. Helen, if you remember, Helen said she had just shot a movie directed by Zoe and that she was an interesting person who would make for a good guest. And I watched a movie. The movie is How It Ends, which came out earlier this summer, is now available to buy or rent on digital platforms. She's an actor who was a regular on the series Delocated.

Whitney, the new girl. She's been in movies like the other guys. She directed two other features, Band-Aid and The Craft Legacy. And I thought, well, why don't I talk to this woman about her work? And she agreed. And it was very funny. I liked her. I think you'll enjoy it.

So the songs. It was a great show. I had Laurie Kilmartin do comedy and Fahim Anwar, who I think is very funny, one of the funniest guys. He's like a young dude. He's funny. I always thought he was funny, but now I think he's funnier. I haven't felt this way about it.

I haven't had the sort of a comedy man crush on any comics since probably Bargetzi. Yeah, and he's huge now. So maybe he'll become a big star and not talk to me. Maybe that's what, what do I sound like? I sound like a sad, obsessed woman. Funny guy. That's all I'm saying. Jesus Christ. Back off. Back off. a sad obsessed woman funny guy that's all i'm saying jesus christ back off back off

yeah so basically the structure of the show was we got a blues going got a little a blues going little shuffle to it and the band went out there and they started that i walked out strapped on my guitar did a little monologue setting up the evening, a little bit of that jump blues feel behind me, kind of riffing away, old school. Then I laid down some riffs, some relatively meaty blues riffs, though it's weird that I don't play with people often, and so the difference in confidence between me kind of really kind of locking in here in the garage and me on stage with somebody just felt a little jolty, a little tentative. I'd like to get past that. See, this is the big deciding thing for me is that, okay, I've done it. Now, do I just put it behind me and say like, that's done? Or do I try to get better at it? Does the world need another cranky Jewish middle-aged white guy playing guitar

with his friends publicly? No. Am I trying to be a professional musician? No. Do I think I'm good enough to be entertaining alongside my comedy? I think so. I think so. Do I think I could get better? Yes. Am I going to judge myself against people who are much better than me and use that to beat myself up with? Probably. Probably going to do a little of that. Was I happy with what I did? I was. So we did that. We did the blues and we went into the Spaceman 3. I Walk With Jesus. Then Lori did some very funny dark humor. Then I came back.

We did What Goes On by the Velvet Underground. We did the stroll by the Diamonds. Then Fahim did some work up there, some funny work. Then I came back. We did Isis. Yeah, we did. We did ISIS by Bob Dylan. That's where I might have made a mistake in judgment. Very long song, about 13 verses, very dirgy, kind of a late mid-period Dylan piece from the Desire album, which is one of my favorite songs in quite a story,

but not a Dylan song that most people know. So I went into a dirgy 13 verse Dylan song that most people don't know, you know, three quarters of the way through the show. Not not a great choice in terms of my ability to get through it without going like, wow, this is going on for a while. Sorry, didn't mean to drag you through this. Couldn't muster up the small amount of confidence I had for the evening and apply it to getting through ISIS without making funny comments at how long it was. And it's such a great song. Mad that I ruined it. Then after ISIS, I did some comedy. Then we came back. We did Broke Down Palace. It was the day before Lynn Shelton's birthday, which was last Friday.

I think that one of the reasons I did the show was for Lynn. She would have liked it. And I did Broke Down Palace, and I cried during rehearsal. Didn't cry the night of the show, but I did sort of have a hard time remembering the words and chords, so I had to keep looking at it.

But I think it was a defense mechanism against not crying during it. Then we kind of closed the show. Then we came back and we did Rollin' and Tumblin', Muddy Waters song, which I believed in some weird way was necessary to know how to play your own. It's necessary to own that song to be a blues guy. So you got to do your version of it. And ours sort of sounded beef-heartish, which Vivino pointed out.

It kind of went into a beef heart direction which i was like great not only do i understand muddy waters but finally understand beef heart and you're right that's what it sounds like that's where we ended up i was proud of it proud of it proud of the evening it all went well it went good fucking dr brunner sent me all this goddamn chocolate and uh they're making chocolate now and it's so fucking good. And this isn't a paid plug. It's just I just want to say that it's amazing and go fuck yourself. You know, fuck the chocolate bars.

I have like 40 of them. What am I going to do with that? I'm just going to eat them and get doughy and weird. It's going to lead to pasta. Fucking man, just shovel the coals into the shame engine will you i gotta find the funny that's a quotable let's put that on my gravestone when i die of fucking a clogged heart from pasta and chocolate shovel the coals into the shame engine. I got to find the funny. Is that what I said? I like it.

I like it. Listen, Zoe Lister-Jones is here. Her movie, How It Ends, is available to buy or rent on digital platforms. It's got Helen Hunt, Fred Armisen, Olivia Wilde, Nick Kroll, Bobby Lee, Whitney Cummings, Charlie Day, Paul Scheer, Bradley Whitford, and a bunch of other people you know and like, not including me.

Wow. I just was not on her list. Why did I even have her on? This is me talking to Zoe Lister-Jones. Enjoy. It's winter, and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost almost anything. So, no, you can anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost almost anything.

So no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats. But meatballs, mozzarella balls, and arancini balls? Yes, we deliver those. Moose? No. But moose head? Yes. Because that's alcohol, and we deliver that too. Along with your favorite restaurant food, groceries, and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now.

For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. Are you self-employed? Don't think you need business insurance? Think again. Business insurance from Zensurance is a no-brainer for every business owner

because it provides peace of mind. A lot can go wrong. A fire, cyber attack, stolen equipment, or an unhappy customer suing you. That's why you need insurance. Don't let the, I'm too small for this mindset, hold you back from protecting yourself. Zensurance provides customized business insurance policies starting at just $19 per month. Visit Zensurance today to get a free quote. Zensurance. Mind your business. So how often do you go to the dermatologist?

I try to go every six months. It's been two years since I've been there. Oh, Mark. I had a basal cell on my face. You gotta go. I'm going Wednesday. Okay. But it didn't feel like that long. I guess COVID and whatever. Yeah.

Time got weird. I've always been, I'm like, I'm a super hypochondriac, but I also don't go to the doctor enough. It's a dumb. What's enough? I go every year to the doctor. I don't know.

Yeah, every year. But like, there was like, there were like two years, there was a two year span? I go every year to the doctor. I don't know. Yeah, every year. But like, there was like, there were like two years, there was a two year span that I didn't go to the dentist. That's not okay. My dentist retired. Okay. I don't know what to do about that either. You got to get a different one.

I know. Yeah. But I mean, how do you, just the idea of trying to find a dentist is, and I have money. Yeah. But the idea of looking for one that's good, I never think I get the good one, ever, of anything. No. Do you? No. In fact, I was wondering if I was cursed the other day with just like a terrible, I have terrible luck in the service industry in general.

What was that? What brought that on? This is a really like bougie. It's going to be great. It's going to be this pathetic display of time in your brain. What? Wait, no. Yeah, well. Bad luck service industry. I had a really bad massage. This is a really good way to start off.

No, but you don't know with the massages. This is a really good way to start off. No, but you don't know with the massages. You never know. And I just feel like I always, yeah, I just always strike out. With massages or in general? With massages specifically and then also. How often do you get massages? Because people tell me like you should do it regularly.

Again, I'm not bragging, but I could afford to have a massage maybe even once a month. But the idea of just like the touching. You don't like that? It's okay. No, I don't mind it. I trust the massage person. Right. And I don't even care.

Male, female, doesn't matter. Right. But, you know, you better do something. Well, yeah, that's the whole point. Yeah. I was like in, I had been traveling a lot. For what? The movie. Yeah. I was like in, I had been traveling a lot. For what, the movie?

Yeah, and then I just shot this other movie in Montreal. And so I just like, my body was like, I just needed some sort of body work. Too much plane, plane action? Too much plane action. And then my therapist said that I needed to get a massage. It's called a polarity massage that integrates your masculine and feminine energy. Oh, wait, hold on. Let me look that up.

Is it under bullshit? A polarity massage? Boy, they figure out the angles, don't they? Wow. So is everything... I haven't gotten one yet, but I'll report back. Are you ready for that, though? It sounds like they're going to integrate the two sides.

I'm looking for integration, yeah. Sort of a lifelong search. So wait, what movies you shoot in Montreal? You work a lot, huh? No, I don't know. Not enough. Really? Yeah, I'd like to work more.

I shot Ari Aster's new movie. He directed Midsommar and hereditary and he uh so this was just acting which was really nice yeah big part no did you make choices i did make choices yeah there's no small parts only small choices is it is it choices no it's actors it's actors yeah and uh was it a funny movie he describes it as a four-hour nightmare comedy which i think it's very wow i mean i bet you like so many people are listening to this they're like i'm in four hours it's i think it's so brilliant i think he's so brilliant and i i'm just like yeah i was so hype to be part of it yeah is it um weird yes okay yeah it's you like weird yeah i love weird did you grow up weird yeah yeah my my i grew up in brooklyn uh before it was Brooklyn. Yeah, in the 80s.

Like back when it was like reasonably priced. Yeah, and my parents. Did they own a whole brownstone? And this is like, yeah. My parents are both visual artists and they just, they would like move into the cool neighborhoods before they were cool, but they could never afford to buy anything. So we never got the upside of that. So they didn't even do the kind of like, we're here amongst the ruins.

No. Making a life, but we own the block. No. Oh God, no. No. My dad has still never owned a home and my mom only bought her first home like in her fifties.

Are they together? No. When did that happen? When I was nine. Early? Yeah. Huh. I think that's probably better.

I've decided. My parents. You think so? Well, I mean, probably not for the kid in the sense that, you know, it's jarring,

but like my parents split up when I was like 35. Really? And I'm like, wow, the whole thing was a lie. Whoa. You know, it's, you can handle it as an adult, but you're just sort of like, how long was whatever?

I don't know. I guess you know. That's crazy. Did they appear happy to you? No, they're terrible. Right. Individually and together. I don't know.

They're all right. You know, they're just selfish people. That's what happens. You realize, like, your parents are like, wow, just people with problems that I grew up with. Yeah, yeah. I know. That like revelation that your parents are human beings is just so devastating. It's just the worst.

Yeah. When did it happen for you? Recently? Early. Early? Yeah, really early. There was very little pretense or performance of like normalcy. Why?

Because was there, well well they're artists so what what was the mediums my mom is a video artist you mean like namjoon paik uh kind of she's stacking tv she doesn't stack those tvs but uh hers is like a little more narrative than he's like super so perhaps a uh an installation of your mother's work would have a podium with just an old black and white TV set on it running. What? No. No, she doesn't do installations. Yeah, her pieces were like.

Many screens? One screen? One screen. Like she did a lot around like patriotism and propaganda. She's Canadian. So she was like very interested in canadian yeah are you dual citizen i am god damn it get out now just get out well yeah and i know i think it's time you do you think it's now

so you've put thought into this i know that like how How do we know when we're not saying, we can work with Hitler. How do we know when we've come to that juncture? Yeah. Well, it got really scary. Yes. Now it feels less scary. But still coming unraveled. It's definitely less scary, but something's not holding.

No. And Jews are always in danger. Always. Always. And the thing is, the more you say it, the more we become annoying Jews to the people that don't like us. Oh, yeah. Oh, my God. Not that many of us. There's really, in the big picture, not that many Jews. It's funny because i feel that although the stereotype is that jews run hollywood i am usually the only jew in a cast is that true i mean i don't think they're talking about the actors when they're saying the jews run hollywood that's true but uh yeah well it is more corporate it is sort of like odd, you know?

Like, yeah. It's just an interesting thing. Like, I guess maybe, yeah. Is there like a dearth of Jewish actors? No, there used to be. I mean, Jews, I think they were more popular in the 70s. Right. Like, I have this theory that once antidepressants became accepted and culturally uh kind of okay yeah

uh the the whole neurotic jew shtick kind of wore out oh you think so it's a weird theory but there were that's interesting there were well i mean i did i i thought about it it was really based on comedians because in the 70s there all Jews. You know, there's some black guys and a few other ones, but there was a lot of Jews, you know, complaining about this or that. And then something happened

in the 80s. Like, it got to, I think it really, yeah, I think it got to the point where people are like, you know,

you can probably fix this. You know, whatever you're going through up there. Yeah. Probably stop kvetching about it. Right, yeah. Because I feel that when I watch Richard Lewis.

I'm like, still? Right. I mean, I watch Richard Lewis. I'm like, still? Right. I mean, I love him. And he's hilarious. And I know it's an act to a degree, though he is in the moment. But it's sort of like nothing's resolved. I know.

Resolved nothing. But have you resolved anything? A few things. Oh, you have? Yeah. Until I spin out over a mole under my fingernail. Yeah, that's the thing thing it's like it's never it's never resolved it's just an endless sort of cycle of panic but yeah but i'm getting

older dread oh big i mean i find that like i'm not a depressive you're not no oh wow you yeah of course come on for real yeah oh that? No, it doesn't surprise me. I just, I question it. I question it. Oh, you think it's like too easy. It's like a humble brag. Yes. Oh, listen to the Jew lady.

With her problems. That's so interesting. Yeah. But the massage didn't work, but you're going to get the polarity one. I think the polarity one's going to fix it. Yeah. Everything. Yeah. Pan the massage didn't work, but you're going to get the polarity one. I think the polarity one's going to fix it. Yeah. Everything. Yeah.

Panic, the dread. You're going to walk out of there. My indigestion. You're going to walk out of there Protestant. Yeah. She's going to rub that Jew right out of me. Yeah. Yeah.

There you go. Worked it all out. Cried a little bit. Not even hungry. No, because I find that dread, right yeah panic when taken to its logical um highest pitch yeah just becomes something like depression you there's an overwhelming that happens yes and then you get shut down right so. So, but I think that's anxiety. I don't think that's depression. So you think I've been misdiagnosed?

Let's call him or her. Who's the doctor? Yeah, no. Well, I think I have a combo platter of anxiety, overwhelm, and depression. Because there's also despair. That's normal but despair can come from anxiety because you're like well it's all wrong yeah but despair is reasonable well sure to live in this world without despair you're so like if you right or religious so right or or spiritual which has its own problems But I think despair is rational and you just have to manage it. Yeah. It's just, if you can, like, I struggled in quarantine as so many people did, but like

climbing, climbing out of the muck of despair. Well, yeah, but it was like, but at a certain point, well, you made a movie during it. Yeah. Which I thought was a good movie. That's why I'm talking to you. Oh, thanks. I wouldn't have talked to you. I would be like, who is that?

Yeah. So you grew up with this, with the video, with the editing? Yes. Mom's editing? Yeah. Do you have a sister? No. Brother?

No. Well, I have two half sisters who are in Canada, but I was raised like as an only child in New York. So they're my dad's previous marriage. Oh, he's Canadian too? No, but he... Now it's getting... He left the States because he was in the army and then he got called to Vietnam and he went to Canada. Draft dodger.

No, he was a deserter because he was in the army. Oh, better. Deserter. So he actually, he had a crazy, he has a crazy story. Do you think it saved his life? Yes. But he wanted to be an artist. And so he like asked to be stationed in New York because he thought that he could be an artist while being in the military.

Where was he from? California. Hmm. where was he from uh california and then he uh his job was to go like knock on people's doors and tell them that their you know husbands or brothers or sons were dead so his it was a brutal brutal um position yeah and so i mean it saved his life his life, but he had a pretty traumatic experience in the army. So he's sitting at an army building or base in the city, and they're sort of like, here's the list for today. Yeah, and then he'd have to go all over New York knocking on the doors. And he got punched in the face, got guns drawn on him.

Like they didn't want to accept it. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. And he's punched in the face, got guns drawn on him. He got, I mean. Like they didn't want to accept it. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. And he's an orphan. So, I mean, talk about like. An orphan? Yeah.

Like both his parents died by the time he was 14. So, like then to also be delivering that news to people, it's just a wild sort of trajectory of grief. So, it wasn't combat he was running from. It was the daily onslaught of death announcements? Well, no. He ran from the combat because then he got called to go to Vietnam. How long did he stay in Canada?

He stayed there for, I think he came back, I think he came to New York in like 77 or 78. When does your mom come into the picture? They met in Vancouver in British Columbia. Nice city. Yeah. And she came into the picture. After he had the other two kids?

Yeah. So he had, yeah. And then she moved to New York and he moved with her. Is he still underground? Do we have to vet this? No, he's not underground. Has he been vindicated or what's the word? Well, so Carter pardoned all the draft dodgers, but he didn't pardon the deserters.

And my mom likes to believe that it was her. She wrote a letter and was like, you're going to pardon the people who didn't even serve. You should pardon the people who served. And then he did. I don't think it was my mom's letter that did it, but we can, sure. Let's say that was. And is that, is all this captured on a video art piece? No, she never made a story about his, he wrote a screenplay about it that I think got optioned

in the seventies, but then nothing ever came of it. It sounds like a good 70s movie. Yeah, totally. Where he just walks around telling people their family members are dead. Yeah. And then the end is just him getting off the plane in Canada. Yeah. And then that's it.

Yeah. Yeah. It writes itself. In 1972. Yeah. Yeah. That would have been a studio movie in 1972 yeah um but yeah so then they met and then so he does he's like a conceptual

photographer so he did a lot of like photograms and shit do you know what that is i maybe it's like like um projecting light through lenses onto photographic paper rather than like snap and shoot. Projecting. Right. I get it. So like, but is it abstracts? Yeah. Oh, okay.

So it's not, it's not like, I get it. So it's not, it's just sort of an extension of like when you kind of like put a comb and a pliers and some other thing on a piece of photographic paper and then you expose it for a second and then you develop it and you're like, look, a Man Ray. Exactly. So it's different than that. But similar.

Similar technique, yeah. Was it color? He did, he used some color paper. He also, he did a lot of like collage work and then him and my mom collaborated on really cool stuff in the 70s too.

Yeah. And then they, their relationship ended. Was it because of an argument over an abstract piece? Over photograms. No. So all that went on before you were even born. So now it's just stories you hear. Which part?

Like their collaboration, the bulk of their... Well, because you weren't, you weren't born, you were born later, right? Yeah. Yeah. I hear all those stories now. And of course I've always been like very interested in their dissolution. My dad moved down the block and I did a crazy thing when they split up, which was, I think

I was like worried about him. You lived in the street? Well, I decided to spend every other night with him, which is like a really... But you just walked down there? I did, but it was like, yeah, it was just a strange... It is weird. Yeah. Did he appreciate it?

I'm not sure. I think I was just like, I sort of went into like parent mode, like I was worried about him. Well, yeah, well, this this sort of like is this where it starts then the uh you know the obsession with the codependency business 100 yeah you got it didn't you do like isn't most of your work about that yes right yeah it's a lifelong lifelong investigation of codependency so uh boundaries no hard hard no no very bad at those um but they weren't alcoholics no but they were just uh you know profoundly selfish people or no i mean they're they're wonderful people i mean i believe like

we're all addicts even if it's not whatever it is you know um no they're they're great i just um yeah i'm just fucked up you know like we all are parents fuck up their kids they're the worst there's just no way not to which is i think why i've always well that's why i've always had a hard time wrapping my head around having kids. I don't have any. I'm 57. I'm proud. And I never think about it.

Yeah. It's like, I just don't know how you don't fuck them up. But it's no time for children now. It's over. Oh, God, no. I mean, I've never been like super into marriage or. But you did it. I did it.

We recently separated, i i did get married i've done that twice oh yeah and no kids two two wives no children that takes that is that takes a certain type of asshole yeah yeah i think my second wife and i do this on stage unfortunately i think my my my second wife uh put like this. You think I'm bringing children into this? But they want it. Your wives wanted. I think the first one wanted it. But I was too sort of like I don't I'm too self-involved and panicky and and prone to anger at times.

Less now. Yeah. I just I never I just didn't do it. And I'm fine with it. Yeah. I'm sorry you got separated. Thank you. No, it's good.

We spent, I mean, it was like a 17 year relationship. Oh my God. That's something to celebrate. Like we did that. That's cool. You know, that's like. Just that, and that was the only person? You didn't take breaks?

We, we did, we sort of went, we went in and out of of went in and out of an open relationship. It's no good. Huh? It's no good. Yeah. That's why I have so much indigestion. How can someone with anxiety and no boundaries even begin to think, like, this is a good idea. Why don't you just go fuck other people?

I mean, what do you? Well, so my mom's friends who I was raised around are polyamorous. And so I was raised around a lot of this ideology like that. Like non-monogamy is something to like contend with, you know. It's not something to scoff at. But then, yeah, I think in practice it's really. How do you engage your like, you know, your jealous possessive part? Oh, it's constantly engaged. Yeah. It's a difficult. How do you engage your jealous, possessive part? Oh, it's constantly engaged.

Yeah. It's a muscle that is... I'm just saying that's the thing about polyamorous. I don't know if those people are well-grounded or absolutely, totally untethered. I don't quite understand relationships. I'm not great at them. Right. But the idea that like you know so

how what'd you do this afternoon i was with joe you know what oh right the guy you fuck on thursdays i mean how is that how do you just be like well what are we eating you know i don't understand that i will say that when it comes back to integration the integration of when your partner comes back from fucking somebody else into the home is that that is a that's a tough day i always had a hard time with it you know yeah it never got easier um i don't think that's unusual i i maybe we're just maybe i'm not advanced enough i don't know i don't think it's an advanced thing i i think it is like a i don't i think it's hard to shift the programming even for like hardcore veteran polyamorists you know like i think there's still it's it's impossible not to be jealous or possessive i don't think i don't i don't know what the the long term of that is i

don't know what that looks like you know what i mean and like a lot of times like i but i don't want to excuse me if i you, if I start commenting on this. Yeah. Then the emails are going to come. Come after you. I don't care if a bunch of swingers come after me. It's like, you don't understand. That's not your niche audience.

They're probably going to get mad I called them swingers. That's some sort of like dated term. It is dated. Of course, I know. Well, but I feel like this. You're doing it on purpose. This new generation who I'm kind of obsessed with oh the fluid people yes who are also they're also like i mean they're all just as anxious as we are maybe more so because they were raised with like phones

and instagram and we don't know how it's gonna pan out for those people you know we're fortunate and you're younger than me that you've got you know at least you know you're kind of rooted in kind of some sort of strange uh narcissistic 70s artistic ideology you know as opposed to just having these passive parents who are upper middle class with jobs you don't understand that just you know let you be brought up by the internet right you know i don't know where that goes i don't either i i mean yeah instagram is like i'm like it's amazing and it's terrible the instagrams i don't have a facebook page twitter i just i go in and out with sometimes i'll just but it hurts me all the time instagram is the most easy one yeah i'll sit and do a fucking two hour live instagram you know i

don't give a fuck and that helps you just like release shit i don't know during i got into the habit of it during the pandemic to engage with people yeah you know because my girlfriend died and i was alone and i was trying to figure how you know what do i do with that and how do i am i going to do comedy anymore the weirdest thing about that time was like i I never, I never, I never missed standup. Like, and I, and if that, you'll understand this, the thought I had was like, maybe I'm all better. You know, not like, maybe I don't need to lean on those strangers.

Yeah. But as soon as people started doing it again, I'm like, fuck, game on, I guess. Cause of FOMO? Cause of competition? Yeah. Yeah. But, but also it's what I do. It of FOMO? Kind of. Because of competition? Yeah. Yeah. But also it's what I do. Healthy competition.

It's not healthy. I'm terrible. I judge myself against people all the time. Do you get mad at other people's successes? Yeah, of course. Don't you? Yeah, of course. Are you kidding?

Shit, we're fucked. Get out of here. I know. I want what they have. Yeah, but do we though? I mean, sometimes the only way I can wrap... You don't, though. You know what I mean? I don't?

I don't think so. I see who your friends are. You know? Yeah. We don't know what's going on with them, really. Well, that's the thing. And I will say, the pandemic was interesting because the breakups that I witnessed happening, which is what always happens.

But when couples break up who you've been like double dating with or who you at least like look at from afar as like they've got it figured out it's always it's a good it's a good lesson nobody has it figured out if you really look at what they have and who likes them and you know like if with comics like if i if i judge myself against a more successful comic i look at their fans like i can walk down the hall in the comedy store. And I love Bill Burr. He's a friend of mine. We're different in the way we approach it.

And he was doing some main room shows. And I'll get jealous of him because he's huge. And I have my audience. And I do fine. I make a living. But there's these guys that are really huge. Is Bill Burr more famous than you? Yeah, yeah.

I mean, as a comic, he sells more tickets. Yeah. So it's probably more famous than you yeah yeah i mean as a comic he sells more tickets yeah oh so so it's probably more famous it's all tribal in my world you're more famous than him if that makes any difference i appreciate that yeah but so i walk down the hall and i look in the main room where he's running his hour and i just look at the front row stage right you know and i see a dude there and i'm like i don't want that dude I got nothing for that yeah got nothing for them yeah and like I wouldn't know how to talk to him if we I could be polite and maybe sort of like uh you know are you in line yeah but that's as far as that goes are you in line that's the depth of the connection yeah yeah so that I don't know if that's helpful, but consider who you're jealous of and do you want their life?

Right. I mean, yeah. Okay. So, you've got a good list. I'm not trying to get Bill Burr's life, but there's some others. Well, that's just an audience thing. And Bill's like, you know, but he's having some revelations about himself. It's very nice.

Oh, good. So, when do you start doing things? Well, I went to NYU. I graduated. Film? Acting, which is where I met my ex-husband, who I will just say, we are still best friends and collaborators. And we made this movie together.

We made How It Ends together. And he's an incredible person. You've made a few movies together. We made a number of movies. And that was really my start, was that we started making movies together. At NYU. Short films. No. After NYU we entered into an open relationship. Right away. Like about two years into our relationship. But we were young. You know we met when we were like 20. Okay. So that's where you. And so and then our first film

was about our open relationship. It's called Breaking Upwards. And we basically played versions of ourselves telling that story. And then that opened a lot of doors for us. So then we went on to make a number of other features together. Yeah, they did the band one. Well, the band...

So Daryl and I made three features, narrative features together. And then I went on to... Last name for the people. Daryl Wine. There you go. Director extraordinaire. Fab come on it's about you okay fine um uh i went on to direct my first feature because he directed all of those films we like co-wrote them and co-produced them and i

acted in them yeah uh and so band-aid was my my directorial debut right uh which was with Band-Aid was my directorial debut. Right. Which was with Adam Pally and Fred Armisen. That was my coming out party, Band-Aid, as a director. Yeah. And it was really fun. And I hired a crew made up of entirely women, which was also really cool and fun.

That's the right thing to do. Yeah, it was amazing. It was an amazing social experiment. An artistic experiment. And how did it do? How was it received? What did it bring to you? It was received very well. It premiered at Sundance in competition, which was really exciting.

So I got, like, that was a bucket list thing to play the Eccles Theater at Sundance. Wow. That's really cool. And then, yeah, it opened a lot of doors. So then I went on to direct my second feature, which was a remake of The Craft,

which was that 90s switch. Yeah, I saw that. Yeah. Why that? They came to me and asked if I wanted to pitch on it. And, you know,

it's like a feminist horror, basically. And I did want to pitch on it because it was know it's like a feminist horror basically and uh i did want to pitch on it because it was like a pretty seminal like cult film in my coming of age oh yeah yeah yeah um so then i pitched on it i got the gig and i wrote it and directed it and went and made that it was you know how'd that do uh not as well why what do you think went wrong um i think band-aid i made entirely independently um and uh and that was a studio picture which i think is always just a more difficult process you know it's like there's a lot of cooks in the kitchen and um and i and i think because i was like servicing a legacy like of the

craft which right i like had you know there were a lot of there's a lot of it's so funny because like you know in the world of directors wanting to you know sort of you know carrying the burden of honoring a legacy yeah that one's kind of you know you never win yeah but it's like usually it's because like i don't want to you know make something you know like the other one was such a masterpiece right and but for the craft i mean that was the thing there was room who was really gonna judge you right well i guess horror fans it has oh that's right that's the worst they're full of nerds and they're yeah and Yeah, and they're out for blood. And did they

come after you? No. You know, I think, listen, as a screenwriter, not to brag, no, that was my only brag,

but that's what I call myself. As a screenwriter, I feel like the third act is just, it's so fucking hard to get right. And I think that

that's where the movie struggled, was its third act. And I'm incredibly proud of it. Like, I, is just it's so fucking hard to get right and i think that that's where the movie struggled was its third act and and i'm incredibly proud of it like i i still think it's a really special movie um but yeah like i don't know any director who's ever like happy with like entirely happy with their film because it's always just being ripped from you in the edit you know right like and this one was particularly wild like i i was told that it was coming out like a month before it it came out so i had to finish it really fucking quickly because they wanted to get it out for halloween during the pandemic um but what's good is like something like that i would imagine like doesn't really stick to you.

Yeah. And then I think it was helpful that I went and made. I think like it was great because I got to make like a studio movie. And as a woman, that's also like not a thing that happens. And you will make more. Yeah. So that was really cool. Don't you think?

I hope so. Yeah. Do you? Because I know Lynn, like, you know, her experience with studio movies was sort of like, I'm never doing that again. I'm going to wrangle some money together and shoot this out in two months or six weeks. She had such a cool career, and I'm so sorry for your loss. I never met her, but I always watched her from afar. And my mom is actually friends with Tanya, her sister, because she goes to Superfinal with Tanya the restaurant super final yeah um but uh yeah i mean

i don't know it's like it's like golden handcuffs you know like i don't want to put it into the universe that i don't want to make a big movie because i think it's all the money and the resources yeah and you might as well throw your hat in the ring and see if you can pull it off yeah but i like i mean how it ends was like a really i made that right after the craft and that was a really nice like reset because that was super gorilla oh so the craft just came out yeah last year or yeah 2020 and how it ends but like i just want to make sure everyone knows that you act a lot yeah and you like you know you had some pretty harrowing roles like what two seasons of whitney i say that with love i've known her forever you guys are homies no i do love whitney she's i

actually do she's amazing and yeah i had been even though i was like you know still young i had been like auditioning for so long and couldn't fucking catch a break in the TV world. And she gave me that break. And I'm so grateful to her. Yeah. Like I bought my first house because of Whitney. So that's. Where was that?

It's where I still live. Oh. Whitney. It was really funny. I went in and auditioned for her and I sat down and she said why aren't you famous and i was like i don't know i don't know how to answer that question um and then she really you know she fought for me and it takes people fighting for you sure this industry yeah to get shit and you know before that was glazer glazer so that was a funny show. That was really funny. Delocated.

Yeah. And it has a real cult following still. Does it still? Yeah. I love the two Johns, John Benjamin and John Glazer. Yeah. Too funny.

Oh, they're so funny. And so specific. Yeah. And so set in their ways. Yes. That's a good way of saying it. Yeah. I feel bad talking shit

about the craft legacy because it is, you know, it's like, it's a thing. This is a thing. You didn't though. I know, but I did. I did kind of. Well, you haven't even seen it. I mean, I think it's like such the film after Breaking Upwards was a Fox Searchlight movie that Daryl and I made together that was critically like not well reviewed. Yeah. Starring Greta Gerwig.

Which one was that? It's called Lola versus. And it's funny, like we've had this discussion of like when people ask about it, my first instinct is to go, uh, yeah, like don't watch it, you know,

even though I'm proud of it in many ways, but there's like the self protective mechanism that comes in to go like, you're going to look at the rotten tomatoes score and then you're going to judge me. Right. Which also like fuck rotten tomatoes but you know what's weird about me i don't even ever look at it you don't no i don't know what the fuck people are looking at i don't know where people find the time i don't like i like what is i don't i don't check

anything if somebody i respect says maybe you ought to watch this. I'm like, all right, I'll check it out. Or this looks interesting. I don't go to it. But this is the problem is that now the Rotten Tomatoes score is on the iTunes when you press. So just when you pull it up, even if you're not seeking it out. I don't pay attention to it. Well, that makes me feel better. Yeah. Anyway, the craft did.

I think it did well. Otherwise, it just that the critics, you know, they had problems with the third act, which is like, fine. Third act's hard. Third act's hard. What are you going to do? It's an amazing cast. It's an amazing cast of like incredible young women. And it's, I think it's an important story to tell.

That was something that was easier in the 70s, the third act. Yeah. Just don't end it. Didn't have one. Let the guy just go off on a bus. Once antidepressants came into town, third acts were skyrocketing. They were everything.

People wanted closure. They wanted a button. Yeah. So the new movie, let's figure that out. The reason I liked it was because when I looked you up, I was like, what is this person? What is this person? Yeah, like what does she do?

Right. And then I'm like, oh, she's one of those, knows all the cool kids. Like I could tell from the movie. I'm like, oh, I know that guy. She called him too. What is his name? Yeah. So the reason I liked it is it kind of like the conceit of it is what it is but it's

sort of like this weird it is an art film yeah i decided oh thank you did you decide that yeah good like you know like bonafide it's like a uh like it's not you're not it's a poetry piece oh thanks yeah uh i think because like the development process on the craft was like so intense it was really nice to like i don't know open up i don't know the process to like allow for it to be whatever it wanted to be to be like more fluid and poetic in that way i guess because i didn't have to be like hitting like and then the climax happens and then yeah newmont and then you know well i mean that's what i liked about it yeah it was so funny because i i'm thinking like man she really did this on a budget

and you know i i guess the only expense was stopping traffic but it turns out there was no traffic yeah i was just like all they paid for was to you know to have people at the end of the streets yeah the cars no but it was the middle of the fucking thing no we had a crew of three people there was nobody stopped stop traffic there's just no cars around yeah i mean we would hold for like a scattered few cars i talked to helen hunt about it oh, yeah. Yeah. She's the best. Yeah, she is. Yeah, no, it was amazing.

I mean, and that was like part of, I think, our intention in making it was to sort of like serve as a time capsule for this totally surreal moment on the streets of L.A. It was so apocalyptic, you know, inherently that we were like, let's get out there and shoot it. And also I found it to be like one of those movies where like, it's like the journey of it. Like the, you know, that, that every, there's a, someone else just used an asteroid hanging in the sky. Really? Exactly like your asteroid.

What do you mean in a movie? Yup. No, in a series. Really? Yup. Joseph Gordon-Levitt and Mr. Coleman, the new series. Oh, is it good? Yeah. Yeah. It's, but new series. is it good? Yeah,

yeah, but it's not, it's his, it's a manifestation of his anxiety, but it looks like the same effect. Really?

Like the exact same effect. Well, and then like Adam McKay, his new movie, I think is also, I don't know if it's an asteroid, but something's like

going to hit the earth. I guess we all, it's funny, it's like, we made Breaking Upwards and then like katie katie asselton made a movie about an open relationship there are a bunch of like open relationship movies at the same time i feel like it's funny like there's something that happens in

the i don't know ether the collective collective unconscious yeah it's annoying yeah i don't know why that is it makes you wonder about things you know what i mean it's like well is that a coincidence what's going on are we all part of one mind i should say the name of the movie Annoying. Yeah. I don't know why that is. It makes you wonder about things. You know what I mean? It's like, well, is that a coincidence? What's going on? Are we all part of one mind? I should say the name of the movie. How It Ends is what we're talking about currently on the podcast. Yeah.

Thanks. But each point, how did you, when you scripted it, so the idea is you had a time that the world was going to end and everyone knew it. And this was the day of. Yeah. I mean, I think the intention was like, I think we were both obviously as the world was trying to process what the fuck was going on with the pandemic and with quarantine and being like trapped. But it was this like, I think the dichotomy of being in this apocalyptic like, but also just being in sweatpants and watching Netflix every day

was so wild. Right. And so I liked the idea. We hadn't seen an apocalyptic comedy that wasn't mayhem, violence, zombie. Like that one that Seth did. Yeah. What was it called?

So good. Similar title, right? What is it called? Which is so good title, right? What is it called? Which is so good. With Satan and everything. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. But it's like,

it's madness out on those streets. Yeah, it's amazing. And so this was like, what would it, like, there was a certain point, I mean, we're sort of still in it,

where we were just like resigned to this new normal. Well, and also it's interesting how this culture comforts itself yeah you know it's just sort of like you know bread and uh yeah and watching things people were baking a lot of sour yeah well i just love that like as that started to wear off like everybody was sort of excited it's like well we're gonna do things during and then like three months

in they're like get me out of here i don't want to fucking even look at my children i don't know no bread is going to stop this from yeah i was so grateful not to have children in the pandemic oh my god oh god the journey of those people i know um but so yeah so so you thought that the the disconnect was interesting yeah and and so like what would it look like if like we had all been preparing for the end of the world which we kind of were doing so that on the last day, I mean, not the end of the world, but you know what I mean?

On the last day that people were resigned to it and sort of, it was just a more introspective, self-reflective energy. And what would that look like? And so we started to explore that. And also we were trying to shoot everything outdoors and six feet apart. So it worked to sort of have like a walk and talk journey right with your well the device of your younger self yeah what's that girl's name kaylee spainy yeah yeah

she's amazing she's also the star of the craft oh she is didn't i said didn't i see her in something else we're of east town yes she's yeah she's great in that yeah that's right. She goes bye-bye. Oh, yeah, right away. So quick. Yeah, it's all. So quick, she goes bye-bye. But she's the heart of the whole story. Yeah, and she's amazing. We worked on the craft together, and I fell in love with her, and then I was like, do you want to make a weird little movie? Well, see, that's right there.

How does that continue to work? That's what I think sort of establishes it as a meditation on something, right? Yeah. And as an art film is that, you know, all right, this is her younger self and that's okay. Yeah. We're just going to walk with them through Silver Lake, I guess, for two hours. Yeah, that's the log line. It's going to go gangbusters. um yeah well also because like i mean i was

doing a lot of inner child work with my therapist you were yes and my mom had sent me what does that look like it's like figuring out how to talk to your inner child because it's the inner asshole yeah because the inner child that's like so anxious oh yeah oh right right like i feel like it doesn't feel safe the overwhelm that we feel is like actually our inner child man i know so it's like how do we speak to that person and like reparent no i get that no i i've applied some of that. It's hard. It's so hard. Do you ever read the Fantasy Bond? No, what's that? Do I have to read it? I don't know.

It's just, it's changed my mind about why I am like I am. And like lately, what I've realized about the inner child thing, outside of the Fantasy Bond, which I'll explain to you later. I've just, I can't sell any more of his books. That's fine. I don't mind it, but it's like, I've explained it before. He's not a sponsor. No, no. Dr. Firestone. Okay. Robert Firestone. No one knows this book. And I think it's like one of these Rosetta stones or whatever of contextualizing a certain type of emotional disfigurement. I have to read it. Yeah. Like, you know, I used to be this way about the denial of death, the Ernest Becker book about transference.

Never read that. Yeah. But I just get locked on these things that reconfigure how I see something. Yeah, of course. Because these are just, they're just, you know, they're just. Framing devices. Yeah, that's all. All of it.

What's happening to me, though, is like knowing, like I'm trying to be like, what about the good times, man? And I look back and I'm like, not's all. All of it. What's happening to me, though, is knowing. I'm trying to be like, what about the good times, man? And I look back and I'm like, not too many. Are there any? Really? Let me explain why. If you feel uncomfortable or socially awkward or stressed, how is any part of your life going to be anything

other than panic and embarrassment? So like all the sort of signs, like anytime that I had a good thing happen, the panic leading up to it, that the only, the good time equates to like, God, I got through it. 100%.

Right? I know. I've been dealing with that so much lately where I'm like, I'm just waiting for the thing to be over. Even though the thing is something that I'm excited about because it's causing me so much lately where I'm like, I'm just waiting for the thing to be over. Right. Even though the thing is something that I'm excited about. Right.

Because it's causing me so much anxiety. Yeah. And I try to go like, no, live in the thing. Right. Or even any victory. Yeah. Any small victory. Yeah.

You can't celebrate it because if you celebrate it, then it all gets taken away. Right. Right. In my mind. Right. It was okay. It's just okay. Yeah.

But it's great. No. No, no, no. No, no, no. We did it. Yeah. It's behind us. It's what it is But it's great. No, no, no, no. We did it. It's behind us. It's what it is. Yeah.

Yeah, that was very disturbing to me, that all the memories are traumatic because you just didn't feel good about yourself. I know. What do we do? We're not that person anymore. There is self-acceptance now. We have to achieve things.

We have somehow, despite our anxiety and our weirdness, our ambitions have compelled us to accomplish things and they're things we want to do. So, I mean, I think it is possible to sort of enjoy them. I think it's possible to enjoy the process. I don't know. I'm trying. I'm trying. It's just that there's so much anxiety but it's like how to not have anxiety in this world is an impossibility so but like all we got is this like like and as things become more um tribal and more sort of like uh insulated everyone's got their own little world um you might as well enjoy that because it doesn't matter to the rest of it. Yeah. That's why I'm saying I just want to be partying. Right.

Because it's like. But what does that look like? Well, my therapist says that I need to embrace play. That's the next one person show. Embracing play. Embracing play. Maybe that's your TED Talk. Oh, that's so good. yeah and it's just gonna be me

like doing drugs on stage what do you guys want i haven't got enough for everybody is this mic working um that's my drug guy voice this mic was yeah. The audience can't see it. All my drug characters talk like, hey, man. There's an old story about a guy, about a road comic. Sometimes it's attributed to John Fox, who's dead, or Teddy Bergeron, who's alive, where he's on stage at some club, and he'd been doing blow, like, who knows how much. And his nose just started bleeding in the middle of his set, and he didn been doing blow like who knows how much you know and uh and his nose just started

bleeding in the middle of his set and he didn't really notice it and but the audience was like and then he realized he just without missing a beat looks at the audience like what doesn't anyone party anymore oh that's so good it's the best yeah oh fuck you people that's so good. It's the best. Fuck you, evil. That's so good. I'm living it. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's going to be my, that's my 2021 sort of like through line.

Be careful. No, not cocaine. Just what? Doesn't anyone party anymore? Yeah, exactly. No, like last summer I went to New York and there were these like outdoor masked dance parties on the street. Are you a dance party person?

Yes. Love to dance. Are you a dance party person? Yes. Love to dance. And you do it? Yeah. So that's nice. So nice. That's not one of the things you're like, you know, just getting through it?

No. But that was like me being like, oh, this is living. I brought my mom, who's incredible. Do you like LCD sound system? Yeah. Okay, good. Why?

I just want to know if you're one of those people. Yeah. Did the key get taken away? No. Oh, okay. Generational thing. You don't like LCD sound system yeah okay good why i just want to know if you're one of those people yeah did the key get taken away no okay generational thing you don't like lcd sound system they're okay i interviewed him recently and i really dug in i get it i get it yeah i understand why it's just i missed it oh really it's not a matter of me not liking it that was like prime like i was at nyu right from 2000 2004 right so it was like strokes yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, LCD Sound System, Rapture, all those bands. Did you read that book

by Lizzie Goodman? Yeah, so good. Yeah. Yeah, I love that book. I was so obsessed with the Strokes. Yeah, like I had that book, like it's like not my time at all. Reading that book is sort of like,

what was, I was around. How did I miss all of this? You were in New York then? What year? 2000, 2004. Yeah. Or no, I just left.

Right. Well, that's why you missed it. But I mean, 2004. Yeah. Or no, I just left. Right. Well, that's why you missed it. But I mean, I was still like doing, but I was so locked into comedy. Right. I moved out here in 2002 after 9-11 with a woman and because she didn't, she freaked out and we had to get out. And so that I was here in 2002. Whoa.

Yeah. Interesting. She was downtown and got out of the train, the raining ash. No. Yeah. I was sleeping. Yeah. I got up and got out of the train, the raining ash. No. Yeah. I was sleeping. Yeah, I got up and I looked at, I opened up my AOL homepage to one tower and I'm like, it's not April Fool's.

I'm like, what? And then I was on my roof in Astoria. Yeah. Watching it. Yeah. So being in New York for that, I feel similar. The coming out of the pandemic there the anxiety the weird sort of destabilized environment yeah although it's like new york obviously is so such an amazing place

in terms of like coming out of things like that where i i felt like i feel like even now new york post not post pandemic but wherever we are now in right is like it's alive i mean i have to go back i'm dying to go because i'm working on a thing with my friend Sam Lipsight and we're writing and, but I just want an excuse to go back. I'm doing the New York Comedy Festival if this melanoma under my nail doesn't, you know, if I don't lose the top of my finger. When is that? I might have to lose the top of my finger.

That's okay. Yeah, I think it is. Well, you need it before. You lose pieces as you get older. Sometimes that's the life you got. Just taking pieces off. When is it? It's in November.

Oh, nice. I don't know what day. I'm going to Patti LuPone's house for Thanksgiving if you want to come. Really? That's exciting. My mother's trying to get me to Florida. Oh, no, don't go there. Hmm. Where's Patti LuPone live?

Well, she's, I think, like by Central Park. She was in the Ari Aster movie, and we got really close in a short amount of time, and now I just want to spend every waking moment with her, yeah. So you danced at the Masked, what was that? So you danced at the Masked, what was that? Yeah. It was this street in Fort Greene that they shut down. It started with when people started banging pots for essential workers at a certain time every night.

And they started turning their speakers out. And then it just became this dance party every night. So every night from 5 to seven, I would go. That's good. It was so fun. That's nice. It's an early curfew. You know, you get it out of your system.

Yeah. And I was saying, I brought my mom and she wept because it was, it was like, oh my God. Communal. Yeah. Just like be around people. Then they would play like MLK speeches at the end. It was cool. With a beat or?

Yeah. There'd be like beats behind it. Yeah. Yeah. end it was cool with a beat or yeah there'd be like beats behind it yeah yeah it felt like a new york of yore that i wasn't there for that i've always like of course been nostalgic well that's what yeah new york's amazing with that with community sense a sense of community and the way people coexist and take care of each other it's it's there's no place like it and it always annoys me having lived there for so long you know when people judge it as just sort of like well new york's okay like the Midwestern view of New York.

It's like you don't even fucking know. Yeah. The only time you see your friends is at church. We're up each other's ass every fucking day. Yeah. We're smelling each other's sweat every day. Yeah. You got strangers touching you.

Yeah. And we love it. Yeah. We're inviting it. Yeah. It's the best city on earth. I never thought that i would live here but here i am it's okay here if you have a nice house it's nice um so the movie like did you how tight was the writing and in terms of deciding what each person or stop meant i would say like half of the scenes were very tightly written. Yeah.

And then the other half were outlined and we were improvising off of a structured outline. So like the scene with Helen and Bradley Whitford and with all of my scenes with Kaylee, those were all written because I think that was really important. Right. To, to get that shit right.

Right. But then the scenes that were more like just comedic and like fun sort of so whitney was just improvising whitney was definitely improvising we went to her house and uh and she found that party was that the party wasn't at her house yeah um her house too nice to invite that many people yeah um but like she had that like weird bubble oh yeah yeah and she was like i'll just put this on my body and roll down the street and covet and we were like okay yeah but she's down for yeah yeah whatever and then you got polly to she got polly chime in i so she improvised in like the opening when she's like on the phone she improvised that polly shore was

gonna be at the party and then i was like do you think you could actually get Pauly Shore to come to the party? It's always easy. She was like, not a problem. And Pauly showed up, had no idea where he was or what he was doing, but was so good. Hey. What are we doing? Okay. What's your name? Yeah.

He was just excited to be like close to Whitney. I've grown to like Pauly. Yeah. He seems like a. Like I've known him since like, you know, when I was a doorman be close to Whitney. I've grown to like Pauly. Yeah, he seems like a... I've known him since when I was a doorman at the comedy store. But as he gets older, he's on to himself. So it's great. And it's just sort of...

He's just like the last time I saw him. I was like, dude, I moved to Vegas? It's so good. You can get good food every night. But all the women are prostitutes, all of them. So it's hard to date. Oh, my God. But I just like the idea that he's got money saved.

Because he did real estate and the movies, and now he's out of the store. They bought him out of that. And he's just sort of like i can get because i don't like vegas but if you just want to eat good food every night you probably can right and you can do shows no i guess so i don't know but his his old man lived there for years so i think it's just you know something you either think is like this is great if you have money this is great and you don't gamble right shows whatever i guess i don't i never go there yeah don't look at me like i'm saying i'm promoting something no i never go there because it makes me feel corrosive very yeah like it's corrosive and weird yeah and just like the like when you're in one of those rooms at a big hotel with no vip treatment it's sort of like this is horrendous yeah i can't even imagine doing that shit i just just being a a hotel guest

is like a hellscape in general no no just in vegas yeah yeah no i love being a hotel guest in general i do i really like it these days it's just sort of like i don't have to do anything yeah minimal effort i'm going away tomorrow. Where are you going? Salt Lake City. Why? I'm going to be a Mormon. You're going to what?

Be a Mormon. I'm going to do comedy. Right. I'm going to do comedy for the Jack Mormons. What are Jack Mormons? Ones that are over it. Oh, really?

Yeah. Is that an actual term? Mm-hmm. Do you want me to look it up? No. I'm going to. Jack Mormon, a Mormon who is not strictly observant. Wow.

Yeah. It's like a modern Orthodox. Yeah, or a sympathetic non-Mormon living among Mormons. That's tricky. Sympathetic non-Mormon. That's going to be you. Well, that's everyone who lives in Salt Lake City for whatever reason other than being Mormon. Right.

Yeah. Well, they're not all sympathetic. They kind of got to be. They have to be, I guess. They run the place. Yeah. You know, you can't walk around going, fuck these Mormons because they're not the Mormons.

Yeah, I guess so. It's a weird, you know. It's an okay place to work, but I made my shows Vaxxed Only, and that was the only place where there was significant refunds. Really? Yeah, it was Utah.

Oh, my God. It'll be fine, though. Yeah, it'll be fine. No, there's enough. I sold enough. I'm trying to work on an hour, so I'm doing club work. I'm not doing the theaters because I'm a theater lady. I'm not going to fuck around.

There's like some cities I can sell like 1,200 tickets. You just called me lady? Yeah, I did. Okay. Just wanted to make sure. So are we done? Yeah, I did. Okay. Just wanted to make sure. So are we done? It's your show. I don't know.

I feel like we covered a lot. Thank you for coming over. And I enjoyed the movie. And I hope people like it. Thank you. Is it opening in movie theaters? It is in movie theaters, but it's also on iTunes and Amazon. Get it anywhere? Get it anywhere. How much on itunes and amazon get it anywhere get it

anywhere how much did it cost you to make it i don't know those things you do did you just use a camera you had at your house yeah use your phone do you use your phone no but that's an option um but it didn't cost a lot of money. It was 80 to 100. Okay. Million. Wow. Where? Million dollars, yeah.

For the asteroid effect? That was just for the effect and also my fees. Okay, I see. You did well. That's great. Yeah, yeah. And you really kind of, you know,

rake some fucking investors over the coals. Good for you. Yeah, me and Pauly's fees. Pauly. Very high. His rider is crazy. Is it?

It can't be. Are you going to pick me up? Am I going to ride over with you, Whitney? All right, nice talking to you. I'll show you. Let's go talk about the fantasy bond. Okay, great. Zoe Lister-Jones. Funny, charming, great. Zoe Lister-Jones.

Funny, charming, talented. Should I put that first? Talented, powerful, works hard, does good work. Charming, funny. There you go. Is that properly ordered? Here's some Telecaster for you. Japanese Telecaster for you.

With some echo and some bouncy bounce. Some tremolo. Thank you. Thank you. boomer lives monkey lafonda. Cat angels everywhere. We'll be right back. Everyday Essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. It's a night for the whole family. Be a part of Kids Night when the Toronto Rock take on the Colorado Mammoth at a special 5 p.m. start time on Saturday, March 9th at First Ontario Centre in Hamilton. The first 5,000 fans in attendance will get a Dan Dawson bobblehead

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