WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1262 - Melanie Vesey

Episode Date: September 16, 2021

Melanie Vesey has a dividing line in her life: Before and after she got shot. The before part includes being a Juilliard and Alvin Ailey trained dancer, a Stella Adler trained actor, a party girl, a person in recovery, and a co-dependent who sought chaotic relationships. The after part includes deep trauma, a crumbling career, motherhood, and a rebirth involving comedy, acting and starting her own business. It's also when she met Marc, who helps walk Melanie through the whole story. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

You can get anything you need with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats. But meatballs and mozzarella balls, yes, we can deliver that. Uber Eats, get almost, almost anything. Order now. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details.

Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category,

and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Lock the gates! Alright, let's do this. How are you, what the fuckers?

What the fuck buddies? What the fuck nicks? What the fuck, Knicks? What's happening? I'm Mark Maron. This is my podcast, WTF. Welcome to it. I hope you're holding up. Hope you're okay.

Getting through it. Muddling. Hope you're not sick. Hope your family's all right. How is your family? How are the kids? How's your mom? How's your dad?

Did he get those tests turned out okay? What's going on with that? Is the kid's foot okay? Did the fever go down? Where are we at? Is that soup? Who are you? What happened to you? Why are you talking to me like that? Who do you think I am? Who do you think you are? It is a sad week. Normdonald has passed away of cancer which he had uh apparently for a long time and didn't uh didn't tell the public about it nor does it seem he told many people close to him i did ask around i just had a had a curiosity if anyone knew that he was ill. It doesn't really

matter. He's passed away and it's tragic and horrible because he was too young. And not unlike every time a past guest dies, we post the episode. We take it out from behind the paywall and post the episode as we did with Norm day before yesterday. You should know that the talk with Norm was one of the best talks of any talk I've done on this podcast. And at the time, I was so thrilled about it because I didn't really know Norm and I'd made assumptions about Norm from the way he handled himself publicly and on stage. So I didn't really know what to expect. And I think I expected it to be a difficult conversation, but it was loose. It was funny.

It was deep. It was smart. It went all over the place. We talked books. We talked comics. We talked spirituality. We talked God, death. We talked about it all. And I just couldn't believe it happened. And I remember calling my producer and just saying, like, we got to get this up now as if it was urgent because I thought it was so great and so surprising and so connected. so surprising and so connected and now tragically uh in terms of why we are reposting it and why it's getting attention again it is still all those things i think it's a rare glimpse into

a part of norm that he didn't share much and uh i i'm just so i'm i'm grateful that we have these episodes when people uh that people love pass away you know even if we do it almost immediately upon hearing about the passing because it reconnects you with that person or connects you for the first time and in in a very deep way, in a very human way. And in the midst of that grief of losing somebody that you looked up to or you loved or from a distance, obviously, a public person, it's nice to have that balance so you can really kind of inform your grief with the humanity of the person and have a moment of celebrating the life. You know what I mean? So that's up.

Also, on Monday, we put up this amazing conversation with Tim Reed, who was originally in a comedy team with Tom Dreesen back in the 70s, the first black man in a white man comedy team. He went on to be on WKRP as venus flytrap and uh also uh frank's place and just hundreds of others it seems tv shows but you don't want to miss that conversation either it was uh it was a great conversation life is stupid and sad huh but we keep plugging away don't we stupid and sad today on the show i talked to to Melanie Vessi. She's a comic. And also, I didn't really know this, I guess. Maybe I did. Because I did her podcast. She's a promotional consultant. And I've known her for a long time. And she has this podcast, Promotional Rescue, which I've been on. But when I met her, it was like way back right when I got sober. And she was just lit up, man.

I think she's got a few more years than me, sober-wise. We talk about it. But when I first got sober, I was at 99. Going to those meetings, she just was this little, like, she was bouncing off the walls, man. She had this blonde mohawk in my recollection. She knew my ex-wife, my second ex-wife, who got me sober, Mishna. And she was just part of the crew, and I've known her for that long. It's so odd, man, how you hold people in this place to where you first met them you know and i do it all the

time she moved out here uh i think a little before mishna and i moved out here she used to drive around this fucking smoking the bandit type of trans am with the firebird on the top and misha was driving around in this old fierro just Just kind of swaggering chicks, man. But the whole thing about holding someone in your memory and not taking into mind that they've had an entire life. Even when listening to that Norm MacDonald thing and talking to Norm MacDonald. And I didn't know him. You know, we'd met a couple of times. But that was the first conversation we'd ever had.

But weirdly, I was with him when his first Letterman aired in his hotel room because Caroline Ray, who knew him from Canada, I was hanging out with her and we went up there to see him. And he just was face down on the bed as he did his stand up on television for the first time on David Letterman. And I remember that so clearly. That was the first impression. There's some part of my brain that holds those moments of the first time you meet somebody or see somebody when it's memorable, that first impression. People just stay there. And we've all had at least five lives since then

i mean i really think about the lives thing about you know who the fuck was that guy who was i do you ever think that when you think about things you've been through in your life i don't know how um all over the place your life was. I guess that makes a difference because if you did travel a lot or move to a lot of different places or do a lot of different things or go through a lot of shit, I guess we all do,

sometimes it does feel like some other person did that. Yeah? Yeah, so many lives. Like, anytime anyone asks me about when i started out as a comic i do not know how i did what i did i do not know how that kid that angry sweaty fully compulsive out of his mind guy at 21 or 22 drove around and did one-nighters in New England. I don't know how it, I do know, you know what it is? And I'm just thinking this now, because I was thinking about it, about,

you know, what happens in the middle of crisis when people do superhuman things, when people, when you just, all of a sudden, whatever's happening in the present is so devastating, when whatever's happening in the present is so devastating, but requires immediate action and attention, you just do it. When you think about, could I do this? Or could I do that? A lot of times you're like,

I could never do that. But when the shit goes down, you can do it because you don't have a choice. And I think I live my life like that. A lot of times I'm pretty good in a crisis in terms of showing up. I don't freak out. I freak out thinking about a crisis, but I don't freak out in a crisis,

and I just think that most of my life early on that I was so filled with fucking fury and panic and compulsive need to do stand up and to get places and to try to to figure it out that i did it and i bombed a lot but i showed up and i did it so i think that's why the memories are weird i think that's why sometimes when we look back and we're like who the fuck was that person that did that well he was in full fucking crisis the fuck was that person that did that well he was in full fucking crisis all the fucking time terrified out of his mind and throwing himself on stage at pubs and bars and grills and hotel ballrooms all over the new england area for for locals how is that? Just talking about that, I'm like, oh my God, that gets me sweating

just talking about it. Full trauma all the time, full on. Panic. But it wasn't panic, it was just fear. I forced myself into horrendously uncomfortable situations situations that I could embarrass myself profoundly almost every night. That's my training. So how does that not feel like another person? And I think that for the first probably 25 years of my comedy career, I lived in that zone, constantly terrified of rejection but pushing back on that fear with fury and trying to build something entertaining out of that angry fear where's that cd oh that would be the first three of them if you're curious uh not sold out tickets Tickets still available. And final engagement. Angry fear. Hilarious. So tonight I'm in St. Louis and some of those people are going to get an intimate experience.

Yeah. Come to the late shows for the intimate experience. St. Louis got to be vaxxed. You got to have proof of vax. Or you got to have proof of test because I don't want my people to get the Delta. I don't want to get the Delta. I don't want to spread the Delta. I'm going to swab my nose today. I'm actually looking forward to it. I panic about St. Louis. I panic about Missouri

because I'm angry about the country. But the last time I was there, I had a nice time. It was once a glorious city, one of the great American cities. And I guess on some level it still is. But much of what's surrounding it, not great. Not great. So Melanie Vesey is a comedian.

I don't know when she became a comedian. I will talk to her about that. She was an actress, but I can't believe I've known her since I've gotten sober. So 20 some odd years. And here we are. Isn't it wild when you've known people that long? Her stand-up special is called Wild Animals on Amazon Prime Video. And her podcast is called Promotional Rescue.

And we're going to get into it. And it's going to get deep because that's who we are. This is me and Melanie Vest. You can get anything you need with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So, no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats. But meatballs and mozzarella balls, yes, we can deliver that. Uber Eats, get almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats. But meatballs and mozzarella balls, yes, we can deliver that. Uber Eats, get almost, almost anything.

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before your policy renews this year. Zensurance does all the heavy lifting to find a policy, covering only what you need, and policies start at only $19 per month. So if your policy is renewing soon, go to Zensurance and fill out a quote. Zensurance. Mind your business. My wife's dealing with all of this permitting stuff because she's opening a restaurant downtown.

In your house? No, but permitting is like a real big deal no yeah i mean that's how i think it's a racket on some level but it's you have to do it yeah what does she do where is it going to be like in the fancy in the new fancy part arts district uh-huh and it's called detroit vases which is your name well it's her name she took my name name. Right. Oh, so her name's Detroit? Well, her middle name. Really? It's a family name. It's a crazy family name. Is she from Michigan too?

No. Wow. In the 70s, my stepmom changed her middle name to Dina Detroit. So what they're, okay, yeah. And then she married my dad, so she became Dina Detroit Vessi. She had my brothers. They were Nick Detroit Vessi, Joe Detroit Vessi. When I had my son, he became Harrison Detroit Vessi. She had my brothers. They were Nick Detroit Vessi, Joe Detroit Vessi. When I had my son, he became Harrison Detroit Vessi.

Then when I married my wife, she became Erin Detroit Vessi. Really? So when we were deciding on, well, she was deciding on the name of the restaurant. And I was like, let's do something really unique, but kind of cool. And Detroit Vessi's really kind of popped out. And so that's going to be the name of it. Okay. She took your name when you got married.

Yeah. I'm the dude. You're the dude. I am. Yeah. Oh, fuck yeah. Were you always the dude? Yeah.

Historically? Sure. Even with dudes, I'm the dude. Yeah? Yeah. It creates a lot of problems. Because I remember, like, I was trying to think when I first met you, and it was, I feel like it's in and around the second and second street meeting.

And at that time, you had a big blonde mohawk. Yes. Not yet. My hair was blonde, but not a mohawk. I didn't get a mohawk until after I moved to LA. Is that true? Oh, yeah. Are you sure?

You maybe felt like I had a big blonde mohawk. Well, no, I just remember meeting you because you knew Mishnah from the places. Yeah. Before she knew me. Yes, a little bit. Yeah, yeah. So what is your story? Because I remember then, like I've missed big chunks of it.

I remember then that you were an actress. You had been in a movie. But then you got stabbed or shot. I got shot. Right. Okay. So where'd you grow up? Because I saw you when I was in Detroit.

Yeah. And you're from Detroit. Originally, yeah. Really? Yeah. Like you grew up in Detroit. A suburb of Detroit called Royal Oak, which is like... Right, there's a theater there I did. Yeah, no, great.

And Mark Ridley's Comedy Castle is there. Uh-huh. Michigan and Detroit has a great scene for everything, because it's cool enough where people get really good at what they do, but not interesting enough where they get distracted into doing other things.

Like great musicians, great comedians, great, great people come out of Michigan and Detroit. Right. But I mean, every time I go there and I have gone there in the past, it didn't seem like it was a great scene. It always seemed a little beat up. Yeah. Which I love. I love a gritty sitch.

Sure. And, you know, people learn their shit and usually move out. But what'd you do? Like, so was your dad in the automotive business? No, my dad, well, my dad, my parents were divorced. Like before I was like one years old, like it was, it was the, you know, early seventies. They were probably too young. Uh, my dad was a photographer. So you're the youngest. I'm the only of my mom and dad. Oh, but then my, my other brother, my brothers are half brothers, my mom and dad Oh But then my My other My brothers are half brothers

My dad and my stepmom Okay Got it And then my dad moved to New York City Photographer Yeah Fashion Tabletop

Beautiful stuff Yeah He's a genius I think you guys would have gotten along famously Was he like a scene guy? Also very into like music Yeah And he played guitar

I think you guys would have been very good friends. Yeah. Oh, yeah? Yeah, yeah. I really do. So he was an art photographer? So whenever you see product, perfume bottles, things like that. That was his thing?

Yeah. And then I wanted to be a dancer. So I left Royal Oak and moved to New York. A dancer. Yeah. So you grew up without him around, but I left Royal Oak and moved to New York. A dancer. Yeah. So you grew up without him around, but were your stepdad and like three brothers? No, the brothers were born after I moved to New York.

What? Dad and stepmom had two kids. Right. Way later. So I'm 21 years older than my brother Joe, and I'm 14 years older than my brother Nick. So I was essentially like an only child for a super long time. But were you like, like, where does the disaster start? I would have to say around five. I feel like five I came to in the trailer we were living in in Mount Clemens, Michigan.

I had a serious moment of clarity and I was like, you are alone. Yeah, that was it. Like, good luck with this. Like, it's almost like I came to like in a dream, you know, like when you realize you're dreaming. And I was like, oh, this is going to be rough. Right. And then kind of.

Why did you think that? I just knew. For you? Yeah. Not because of the situation per se. No, I think the situation was its own challenge. You were in a trailer action well my mom you know was married you know many times and you know there's a lot of turbulent you know stuff there she had a kid at 1920 you know yeah and then she it was

like was it one of those situations where weird dudes oh my god coming and going um a few stepdads that i don't even remember but one amazing stepdad steven it was fantastic so you got one good one one good one but he died at 37 he just dropped dead one day oh my god while they were married no they got divorced it's it's like it's this is just like an alan on chair like just so much drama yeah um but that's good i mean it's not good but it's good stories sure oh no great stories but you have to process all this a lot of processing still still processing do we ever stop processing i don't think so i think you should keep processing i also feel like i'm starting to wonder i mean maybe right now like i'll be 50 in a matter of like, I don't know, 15 days.

Oh, yeah. It seems like. Yeah. No, actually. Yeah. And I'm really to the point now where I'm stopping trying to fix it. I think it's mostly just acceptance that like, oh, this is the way that it is now. Yeah.

And also, like, I started to realize because I've been like dry as fuck and but I'm OK experimenting with the dry as fuckness. Yeah. Yeah. Because I don't have the obsession to drink. But I do know that like, you know, when I'm dry, you know, my brain's pretty active. Sure. So I'm willing to make that trade off sometimes. But I start I had this realization the other day that if you didn't feel good or if you felt awkward in your childhood, right, for whatever reason, bad parenting, whatever, if you felt uncomfortable being you, every memory is going to be trauma-based. Every memory is going to be shame-based.

Every memory is going to be embarrassing. You're right on. And I never saw it that way. And, of course, I'm like, I think I'm the first one who thought of that. And someone should apply it to treatment. You were like, who could I call? Yeah, yeah. Where's the guys writing the book?

Because I got something to add. Yeah. And it really blew me away. And in addition to that, in terms of processing, it's all trauma. It has to all be processed as trauma yes right yes mark yes and it's funny because i oh god it's so so funny that you're saying this because because i think i'm realizing how much i actually do suffer i've been diagnosed with complex ptsd because i have childhood trauma compounded with adult trauma. Yeah. As do you. Right. You know, I mean, traumatic events. I never got shot. But you had a partner who died. I mean, you've had other things. That's real fucking shit. And also like very like emotionally fucked up abusive relationship. Sure. I mean, you've had friends die. I mean, you know, from what I know of outside looking at your life, you have adult trauma. Yes. yes compounded with that that starts to give you

the symptoms of ptsd irritability unable to uh concentrate uh you know the um you know having a hard time like focusing look i'm even having a hard time focusing now you know what i mean like it's uh and also too everything is colored and and i think what's hard sometimes when i talk to people is that like if i look at my life I can if I look at the pictures I think that's why I take a lot of pictures of my life because I can then see it from the outside I'm like bitch you lived you had a great time look at that outfit look at that hair yeah look at that to me registering in my body I am I cannot uh usually access joy I can't I can't I can't either and I don't and also not great with the accepting, receiving love or giving it selflessly.

Same, same. And I have a beautiful- A lot of acting as if going on. I have a beautiful, wonderful, amazing, fantastic, gorgeous wife who loves the fuck out of me. And a good kid. And an amazing kid. I have to sometimes be like, accept their love. I have to let it come in their love like i have to like yeah

let it come in and it's it's not the easiest thing for me yeah no it's i i i i've built arguments for myself at to sort of somehow rationalize or defend a position around like joy is not necessary like it's overrated it's not a real emotion yeah yeah uh yeah but it's uncomfortable it's like why would anybody want it and then you realize like it's not uncomfortable for most people losers yeah yeah also too i feel like for my identity i've my fear sometimes of even giving up some of that stuff and becoming like the hole in the donut so much of like what would i be yeah that's so funny though like you know after how long you've been sober 27 years so you're still worried about the hole in the donut sure sure fuck yeah that's fucking nuts uh absolutely there's not

my brain is fundamentally and i don't say this to be like i'm broken like bitch it's broken yeah i like i'm super sorry yeah i'm sorry, but the donut hole thing is no longer applicable. At 50. I think it's just maybe, like, you know, the fear of, like, I'm going to lose my edge or I'm going to, like. But what does even that mean? I mean, that's the weird thing. I mean, but what's going to happen is some of the shit that you think is important, like your edge, will not be so important anymore. Oh, no. I mean, my really good friend Melissa is like, Melanie, being cool is going to kill you.

Like, fucking snap out of it. But yeah, you know, I think it's just old ideas, concepts that once kept me going and probably kept me going at a point when I needed it to. Sure. Yeah. And then those things don't work. However, it's my opinion that I've never been able to get rid of them. I know. And there they are. And then those things don't work. However, it's my opinion that I've never been able to get rid of them. And then there they are. And then they pop up. Yeah. They become

like, you know, I get that too, but let's fill in some blanks. So you're going through a parade of stepfathers. One good one who died. So great. And then you move, you run away. Do you run away? No, no. When I was young, I wanted to become a dancer because I saw Pinky Tuscadero on Happy Days. And for whatever reason, I was like, I want to be her. You know what's been good for dancers? TikTok, I think. Oh, my God. It's amazing.

But I mean, I haven't danced in years and years. I could. And I have done some kind of dancey TikToks. But I always wondered who the fuck would be a dancer and why. And now TikTok has answered that question like like because like i know there's like it's one of these things like i want to be a dancer but every time someone says that i'm like what where's the where are they using dancers other than vegas or what what what kind of job is that uh you work at a like a ballet company like a modern dance company alvin ailey martha graham okay so that's like you

know 10 people get to do that you're right it is i i've only chosen very specific careers uh to which are almost impossible to succeed at well that keeps the shame going sure why not um but i did well you know what i mean i did you dance well i it is truly like my first and greatest gift really yeah were you a natural yeah it is like when music comes on it's very difficult for me not to move it's very difficult It is truly like my first and greatest gift. Really? Yeah. Were you a natural? Yeah. It is like when music comes on, it's very difficult for me not to move. It's very difficult for me not to feel that from the inside. Did you train? Oh, yeah.

I went to Juilliard. I danced. You know, I studied at Alvin Ailey when I was young. When he was alive, I got to see Alvin Ailey like working with the dancers. How old were you? Like 19? No. When I was at Ailey, I was probably like 12, 13.

Really? Yeah, when I would go in the summers, I would dance there. Okay, yeah. Then I went to the Interlochen Arts Academy, which is, I went to the camp and the school, which is the best hands down years of my life. Your mom and your various step fathers were or your real dad

was sort of like this is what she wants we're gonna make it happen for her um i supported it when yeah i mean i it was it was i got like kind of like an athlete's life it was like dance is the most important thing we don't care if you can read right you know i'm also gen x parents weren't really like around right they. They weren't home. They would come home, take me to dance class. Right. And then. They were doing their thing.

Oh, my God. Very much their thing. Yeah. Yeah. What was that? Being absorbed in their own. Yeah. Concepts, lives, dreams.

Not too much booze or drugs? Both sides of the family have a lot of addiction. Yeah? Mm-hmm. Yeah, I mean, I don't, you know, it's weird when you have to raise yourself. Yeah. I think that it's a, I feel like it's a, it is an asset. It's made me very focused, very good at what I do.

It's made me incredibly driven. Yeah. very good at what i do it's making me incredible made me incredibly driven yeah the defect however is that the control and being hyper vigilant is horrible to the humans around you hyper vigilant like that play out just like a super aware of everything and like pushing really really hard towards everything to the point of exhaustion to the point of you know madness are you just are you saying you just you tried too hard? Of course. I'm sitting here with orange hair. I didn't want to say anything.

When I saw you get out of the car, I'm like, what are we doing now? What's happening with her now? It's always a page turner, you know? Jesus. Yeah, I mean, but like I said, like that, it's a defect, but I also see it as an asset.

Sure, it's a survival thing. So when does the dance crap out, though? But you didn't move there when you were 12, so you're going- No, I'm- Did you actually go to Juilliard? I did. And for how long, two years? Just one year.

And then they kick you out, or you quit? Well, ish. So unfortunately, by that point, I had been very ensconced in new york city nightlife and that was very attractive was that 80 so 89 80 and 90 so like you know the tunnel and nels and mk and how long you were you like mars like i remember nels i had a bad night freebasing with a guy who is an advertising executive there. Wonderful. Terrible.

Okay. But I can just remember the creepiness of it because I came back from, oh, God. But you're out the whole time? Oh, yeah. From the time I moved to New York City, I went to my first nightclub when I was 14. Yeah. Happy. It was, I found my people.

Which one? My first nightclub was called The Saint. And it was an was i found my people which one uh my first nightclub was called the saint and it was all an all ages night and it was like here it is this is you where was this i think it was on the lower east side and you can google the saint the dance floor was this huge i mean it was like a football stadium and inside the ceiling and just being like it was, you know, your first time with anything swept away by the music. And also, too, it was like I was validated. People thought I was cute and fun and beautiful. I got someone's like their attention.

The red ropes would part and would be like, come in. And it's like me. You know what I mean? So that tapped into all of the negative spots I had inside of me. Filled them up? Yeah, I weren't satisfied as a child. And what was the drugs? I would have to say that I was like a maintenance person, like daily pot smoker, daily drinker.

Right. However, I'm also an Al-Anon, so I would pretty much do whatever you're doing, which would mean whoever I was dating, whatever their drug of choice is i was doing that too so just a garbage head but but not uh crazy junkie no i never did heroin heroin was a total yet for me um and then after i got sober i primarily dated heroin addict women because that is the hottest thing in the world but the the snoozy women um well they were all sober so they it just meant that there was this extra layer of like yeah yeah nuttiness that really activated my brain oh the the one that can never be satisfied again oh lord like trying to

hold a fish out of water you know what i mean just kicking and bucking and just i'm gonna fucking be the thing yeah yeah if i could get them to pay attention to me then i will have won yeah but never never was able to do that so when so juilliard they had enough of you or how that so i think by the end of that um yeah i I was Motu Ballet or modern what I was a modern dancer because by design I could never get thin enough to be a ballerina even though

my true wish was to be a ballerina I love the structure I love the I love the tutus you really gotta be a type huh it is

it is predestined it's there's nothing you could do to get yeah that skinny skinny yet strong it's like modeling predestined it's there's nothing you could do to get yeah that skinny skinny yet strong it's like modeling in a way it's like it's freakish very very difficult yeah and then so i was always pushed to modern dance but it's me and a tutu and a toe shoe is always what i it's what i still want what do you fucking crazy i think there's still time i could do it i don't don't give me a thing to do next time see you, that's what you're going to be wearing.

Well, when we do the follow-up interview, I'm going to get out of the car just with my feet in first position, like flap, flap, flap, flap in my toe shoes. That would be great. I'm ready. You should do a short film today. Do a TikTok of you and a tutu. Fine. Go for it.

I'm telling you, this is a serious career. Are you on TikTok? Oh a serious career i'm shoot your are you on tiktok oh yeah i'm not it's time to get in the tiktok and do the thing at this point it would be a four four a ten ten exactly there you go own it yeah i'm ready i'm ready so but how does the how does the dance dream diminish how does that tumble into a stump um i think that at that point like once i left kind of being under anyone's home i was really free to do whatever i wanted to um and i wasn't able to sustain being up at nine o'clock in the morning doing adagio across the floor i just wanted to be in the nightlife yeah my roommate also too at Juilliard was an actress. She decided she wanted to leave to become an actress.

And I was like, oh, because I've never had a sense of self, I've never, like, I couldn't connect with maybe like dance, maybe wasn't the end all be all. And I was like, wow, I want to act too. And I felt like I was getting closer to my dream of being Pinky Tuscadero. And so I went to acting school and I went to Stella Adler. But it's so weird because like with me

and it's probably the same with you, in retrospect, this idea that we have no sense of self is faulty. Yeah, exactly. Because, you know, whatever the hell it is that got us through our lives

is a sense of self. Yes. We don't give it much credit, but when I look at myself, like videos and whatever, I'm like, I'm the same guy. Yeah, yeah. So I'm the only one that didn't think I had a sense of self, really.

I knew there was a piece missing, but it was an emotional component. But I wasn't like some weird, nebulous, boundary-less nerd. No. That was like glomming onto people. Yeah, no, I don't think people would look at me and be like, oh, she doesn't know who she is. Like like i clearly look like i do i think it's more of a tone it's

a connection that i don't feel i don't feel it and i think that's also maybe a part of the addiction component of me is that i want to feel it but i don't feel it all the time so let's just keep doing it until we fucking feel it like here's the problem maybe maybe the self-consciousness is is the issue maybe the vigilant like am i feeling it is this happening yeah like is it is this kicked in yet call your guy man call your guy you know guy this shit this it's bunk it's let's take more yeah and then you're face down you know let's go over there Let's go over there. We're going over there.

Fuck this. Yeah, yeah. Dealers. I was thinking about dealers. Anyway, so no sense of self, Stella Adler was going to give it to you. Oh, yeah. Yes. Who was over there when you went over there?

So you were at the school in New York? Yes. You just auditioned to get in? Who was teaching over there at you were at the the school in new york yes you just auditioned to get in who was teaching over there at that time uh the amazing alice winston who has passed uh the incredible uh jimmy trip who i believe is still alive um and i think that uh stella's grandson i think was running the show over there um it was great it was wonderful it was probably i was sober by that time i got sober at 22 and who were you dating when you decided to act oh my god what was that so let's see uh i think around there i think i was a little bit kind of freewheeling it yeah no i had uh i had a boyfriend who worked at giorgio armani. Beautiful, beautiful guy. Amazing. I've had wonderful, amazing boyfriends that I ruined.

That I have made a lot of amends. I just want people to know I have tried to clean that up. What was the tone of, is there a through line to the amends to men? I'm just, I'm sorry. I'm sorry about the whole thing. Top to bottom. Top to bottom. What did you do to him?

I was a ruthless, selfish girl who probably should have been with women. But I didn't know that about myself until I was like 25 or 26 years old. So when I asked you if you were out, you didn't know? No. You took that as meaning out in the world? Oh, yeah, out in the world. Yeah, yeah, no. I didn't come out until I was like 25, 26 years old. Oh, so when I asked you if you were out, you didn't know. No. You took that as meaning out in the world. Oh, yeah, out in the world. Yeah, yeah, no. I didn't come out

until I was like 25, 26 years old. Really? No girls before that? Well, I would, for a long time, it was like I would, when I would be out drinking, it would be a lot of

bathroom makeouts with, you know, my friend's girlfriend. Right. I also never connected. Your male friend's girlfriend. Yeah. Oh, so you're that girl. Or girl's girlfriend. Yeah, yeah. Just everyone's girlfriend. i also never connected your male friend's girlfriend yeah um or girls girlfriends like just everyone's girlfriend yeah because i was garbage um no but no but uh well yeah i mean yeah yeah i would i would get with your person because i didn't have any morals i

if i was loaded there was nothing off the table sure Sure. If I wanted it, I would fucking take it. Well, isn't that part of the fun? Why make it sad? You know what? Yes. Yes. And I nailed that shit. Good for you.

Nailed it. I'm like, get your shit. We're leaving. Fuck that guy. Come on. Yeah. It took me a long time to figure that out. I didn't even understand that even when I was having sex with men that I was, you know.

Not having fun? Well, not having an orgasm, A. And then, B, when they would get up to take a shower and I would jerk off and think about women. I never even connected that. Maybe that was a queer thing to do. You know what I mean? You're like, this is what all women do. Isn't this just how you do it uh no but yes but yes maybe yes i don't know whatever's right

for you listeners whatever's right for you i'm not judging yeah that was my experience yeah and then i met uh my first girlfriend uh and it was like as if like when you're 26 so you're three years sober so and that is that the cop yes so that's what okay so now you're in acting school are you done with it i'm done with acting school by that point uh it was like it was truly there was a there was a very short period of time i was sober finished acting school start working actress really what you do see that's what i kind of feel like i'm i'm about to enter the picture yeah yes yes yes right because like you were in a jim carey movie yeah man on the moon about andy kaufman right that was the one thing i heard well that was the well that's the big that's the big that's the big ticket item you know but there

was also like i was on law and order and homicide and and did some NBC pilots and, you know, and just was like on like I felt so good and capable and ready. I felt like I was fucking ready. Nothing was in my way. No drugs or alcohol. I was fucking on fire. I turned to my mom and I'm like, I'm gonna be on the cover of Rolling Stone. Just fucking get ready. Just fucking bitch.

It's on. It's on. fucking get ready. Just fucking bitch. It's on. It's on. Yeah. And then that was brought to a grinding halt by the fact that my, you know, I.

Yeah. Well, here's the thing. Okay. My opinion of why I think that happened with getting shot was. Okay. Wait. So you're with this cop. How'd you meet the cop?

Okay. So I was. Here's the thing. I feel like. She's's still around i don't know where she is i also do not want nothing to do with her okay for obvious reasons um it felt divine meeting her um i had an ex boyfriend who was an artist yeah who i had bumped into on the street. And he was like, I've got some pictures of paintings of you. I wrote down my number. This is before cell phones. I wrote down my number on a piece of paper. Three days later, I get a call from a New York City police officer from Bellevue Hospital.

And he goes, do you know this person? And I go, yes, I do. And he goes, I need you to come and identify him. And I was like, oh, shit. And he was like, no, he's not dead. He's overdosing on cocaine right now, but he held a hostage. So he's in trouble. And I was like, OK, I'm on my way to go help him.

So I hopped in a cab and I went up there and he was handcuffed to the bed. And it was so funny. Like, I walked into his little papered off room and he was like, did you snag the paintings? And he was, you know, I should probably ask him where they are. They probably are worth something. He's still around. Yeah, he's a pretty big artist now. So and I and I walk in and he was like, I was at a rager last night.

And I'm like, bitch, you are fucking in trouble. And I was like, I'm going to go talk with these police officers over here. And I will be right back. And as I was walking over to this group of police officers, it was like a movie. And I was walking over to them and these outside ones peeled away. And there was this Latina lady cop standing in the middle of them. And I had an out-of-body experience.

And I was like, that is what I want. Like, in the most visceral way. So your friend handcuffed to the bed disappears. Everything becomes a haze. Oh, yeah. No, it's like that Spike Lee thing

where he pushes in, but the dolly is going forward. And like, the whole thing is like, brrrr. Yeah, yeah. So that was that. That was that. And like the whole thing is like. Yeah. Yeah. So that was that. That was that. And,

um, and she became my first girlfriend. Yeah. And that was a challenging relationship on a lot of levels. Um, and then she became an undercover narcotics officer. Uh huh. And I broke it off with her because she was buying and selling drugs all day long.

And I was like, I'm sober now. Like it was buying and selling drugs all day long. And I was like, I'm sober now. It was in the house? No, no. I mean, for the New York City Police Department. No, I get it. Yeah. No, but it was one of these things where it was like,

I knew that at some point someone was going to put a gun to her head and be like, do these drugs. And she was trying to be sober as well. Oh, so she had a thing. Yeah. Yeah. And so I broke it off with her and then a year later she called me and she was drunk and she came by my house

and it resulted in her shooting me. The leg? Mm-hmm. And it was a fight? So this is where it gets kind of complicated. You hadn't seen her in a year. Yeah. she had asked to come by yeah she was armed yeah we were sitting having tea uh-huh and she pulled the gun out yeah and and then i was like would you put that away and then she pulled the trigger so it's one of these things where it's like, I don't know why this happened. It doesn't make sense.

So it doesn't feel like it's hard to define it as like an attack. But it's also not an accident. Right. Because why? Yeah. Why? Yeah. So it felt to me in the end, this felt cosmic.

This felt like for whatever reason, and this is the way that my brain maybe has gotten a hold of it maybe in a fucked up way but that the universe wanted this to happen to me and what happened immediately after that like i mean did she say fuck and call the cops or well no i mean it was broad daylight it was outside of a cafe i was laying on the street bleeding um and you know the cops came yeah and at first they asked me who shot me and i at first protected her because i am an alan on yeah um and then the cop was like well where did the bullet come from melanie and i was like i don't know and then the cop was really good yeah and he like got down on all fours and he put his fucking face in my face i'm laying on the street they're literally

like trying to get where is she i don't know she split she was i don't know like she was there i don't know what happened to her at that point i just was like oh my god i've got two bloody holes on either sides of my legs and i'm just going to lay down right now on the ground because i don't know what's a major vessel or they were worried that that's what happened so they essentially like if you don't get trauma pants on in four minutes to push the blood up into your heart like that yes you could hit that with that big vessel through the inside of your leg and so um this cop was like melanie on all fours yeah and i literally opened my eyes for one second i like clocked him and i closed my eyes he had like all the gold bars and all this shit this cop was like melanie on all fours yeah and i literally opened my eyes for one second i like clocked him and i closed my eyes he had like all the gold bars and all this shit this guy was like

a seasoned new york city fucking pro cop yeah he was like melanie i know you know who shot you because i guess that's what people say oh i don't know i'm gonna protect my fucking stupid friend who just fucking shot me you know what i mean yeah he goes if you don't tell me melanie i'm gonna find out and he's screaming in my face i'm gonna find out melanie i'm gonna find out and i was like that's my ex-girlfriend she's a cop she shot me it's funny now but it was like not funny at the time no it's here's the spooky part so when they took me they put me in the ambulance and they took me to the emergency room at Bellevue Hospital where I met her. And it was like, it all came weirdly like full circle. And I feel like that feeling that I felt when I saw her was actually danger and my body being like, this is a bad fucking situation.

But because I'm wired backwards in my mind right and i feel love is hate and hate is love yeah i perceived that as love at first sight yeah and it was not now i perceive those feelings as like you're in danger girl yeah i i perceive them slightly let's hear it but when i feel that juice yeah it goes it takes me back to emotional instability that is very exciting yes so it's it's not love and hate but i know that it cannot end well like i i've been telling this story recently that like just had this situation where I was texting with a woman. And I don't know. I was not in great shape. But it got kind of saucy pretty quickly.

Sure. And there was just some tweak in the tone. I already knew that it was trauma bonding and sexualizing. I knew that. But there was some tweak in the tone of it where it just reminded me. Because I went through five years with a borderline. That know, that I had to get a restraining order. And, you know, well, anyways, so I'm just texting with this long story longer. Yeah.

And it just hits me like, oh, my God, if I I never met the person. And I was like, if I meet this person and we do anything, it's going to take me at least five years to get out of it. Yes. That's all i knew like that was the the time frame yes like if i engage this five years minimum yeah of trying to unhook this yeah exactly like one velcro tine at a time just like yeah right like fucking going through it yeah i'm really i mean but i I mean, obviously this was yours. I'm just talking about that impulse and like sort of reassessing that moment.

Because like I'm wary to diminish every electrical current that goes between me and other people as being something negative. other people as being something negative you know because a lot of times like having not a lot of joy in my life i can look back at some pretty you know amazing shit that happened in the midst of horrendous drama oh yeah so i mean i've got to i've got to give myself a little bit of a break i totally hear that i my situation resulted with me, like it ruined my life. It ruined my career. Because you took the healing? I couldn't with like what the trauma of getting shot, what it did to my mind. Yeah.

It ruined my ability to maintain my career, which is everything I've ever worked for. You stayed sober though i did that's not nothing no that is not nothing i'm very very proud of that i'm incredibly proud of long-term recovery um however uh i know now that i can fuck up my life without a drink or a drug no problem oh yeah i i'd have a name for mine okay you know her what no i just mean like i got sober and i latched on to somebody oh yeah yeah yeah yeah you know like of course oh my god of course yeah i mean there's no you know you can really and you fuck up your life and you're awake for it yeah that's why i feel like for me the alan Al-Anon predates, like the Al-Anon problems predate the drugs and alcohol. I was able to get sober at 22 pretty easily, not living in the home with any of my parents and getting farther and farther away from that and maintaining recovery. That's why I feel, and also too, the fact that my sober story is more traumatic and more challenging and more damaging than my using story

oh right definitely yeah i mean hands down but like i just never really understood what an uh a codependent bottom hitting was like i you know i wasn't clear on it yeah you know and clearly i've been because i always saw myself as the qualifier. Yes. You know, I'm the bad guy. Yeah. Like I used to get that when I'd go to double winners meetings, I'd be like, I'm the bad one. But then I realized like, I'm such a fucking co, like in the worst way, like completely willing to negotiate everything away.

But I only did it, like I didn't notice it with Mishnah because I was out of my mind. I was, you know, just newly sober. But when I finally noticed it, I'm like, wow. Yeah. And then, of course, everyone you know is sort of like, yeah, we knew. I'm like, well, thanks for stepping up. You know, this kind of like that mentality of like, we don't want to get involved in people's personal life. It's like, I'm your friend.

And you probably could have said that, you know, I was in trouble. I think it's really life. It's like, I'm your friend. And you probably could have said that I was in trouble. I think it's really difficult. It is, of course. Because then you're going to be like, fuck you, man. Yeah, I think it's hard to hear. You know what I mean? When the student's ready, the teacher appears type situation. Like when you're ready to hear it, you'll fucking hear it.

And it's also tailor made for you to hear it. Sure, but you don't want to be talking to a cop when you when you hear it when you're ready to hear it like i'm ready to hear this and you're on the ground bleeding yeah but what specifically about the recovery from that because that's sort of where i came into your life you were still limping yeah no it's so funny because i remember i was speaking at a meeting and i literally looked up and saw you and mish and you sat down and I was like, oh, that's her new guy. Yeah. And I still had a cane from walking from being shot.

And, you know, I was bringing my message to the people that you can stay sober no matter what. Look at me. I'm amazing. And now I'm like, bitch, this has been hard. Right. It's been a hard road to hoe. But still, that's that thing that you were talking about, that kind of like, you know, doing it. I'm going to do it.

Like that fortitude and that ambition that, you know, helped us survive that becomes sort of a liability as you get older. Because the try too hard thing probably helped a lot of people stay sober in the midst of that that you hadn't obviously processed your feelings but you knew that you needed to go to the thing oh my god and talk the talk thank god right however though um the challenge in that was i did go to aa uh you know after that and what ended up happening is a lot of people talking to me about my trauma in these bumper sticker phrases sure well it's a which it was like god's got a plan for you i'm like that's a pretty fucked up plan bitch um how about that plan sounds pretty bunk you know what i mean yeah or um like they would kind of sometimes put the blame on me and And I'm like, I'm telling you, like, this isn't whatever you're saying to me right now.

Yeah. It made me turn my back on program and also to on any sort of higher power, which I had created. And I mostly had created Santa Claus. You know, I mostly had created a bell, a bellboy. I'm like, go get me my shit. So now you don't understand this gift, the gift of the cane. I didn't. Well, and I and I don't think it's a gift.

No. I mean, it was. And I think that's also the hard thing, too, sometimes about the speaking point of trauma is that sometimes people are like, it made me stronger. And I'm like, I think it really fucking fucked me up. Well, it makes you calloused. I think it made me. I'm currently doing a lot of reading about like evil queens and like why people become evil

like as i'm like as the years are kind of historical queens or gay men like like like villains in like disney movies you know what i mean um like i'm listening like i'm reading uh the fairest of all right now about like the the queen the of snow white you know what i mean and like how these women become evil and it's funny because i i feel like in my heart as things as i'm aging i'm just totally like wow i can really feel like a darkness in my heart like as i'm getting older but what how does that manifest um like what is the impulse out of the dark heart to do what i think it's the um to greet everything with negativity to greet everything with like this isn't going to work um and i do have i do have a lot of reference that if if i if i move forward with something that positive things can happen but there's just been i think it's probably also to the pandemic it's like

coming down the world's ending yeah but the but that but it's probably also to the pandemic. It's like coming down. The world's ending. Yeah. But the, but that, but it's interesting that the darkness that you see at the core of your potentially future evil disposition is still, you know, fairly self-flagellating. It's not like, you know,

I'm going to kill. It's like, I hate me. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. No. Oh yeah. No.

Abso-fucking-lutely. And it doesn't help anything. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, no. Oh, yeah, no. Abso-fucking-lutely. And it doesn't help anything. You know what I mean? No, it just, I don't know. It's like a couple of things. Like the sort of like kind of adage talk of AA. It's like that's the weird thing about recovery is that everyone's got these talking points. And they're taught to say them.

And it does enable them to engage. But ultimately, if you're really spiraling and you need other help, you got to go get other help, you know? 100%. But people are just trying to sort of like, this is what I'm taught to do. And sometimes all you need is someone to stand there.

I can't tell you, after Lynn died, like I had neighbors who I didn't know before coming over to check in on me six feet away, just watching me cry. And it was all right. Yeah. You know, it's okay. it can be messy and it can help you through sure man i mean you know you want to witness yes you know usually but i did however like and i and i do need to say this that like i feel like the dumb shit that people say can be so damaging and so i always just want to say this that like if you're talking to somebody that's going through the thing, you don't have to figure it out.

I have a little script that I have for people where I just say, wow, it sounds like you're facing a challenge. That's all you have to say. If you have the energy, you can tack on this latter part, which is what can I do to help you? But if you don't have that to like cook for them, do laundry or drive them somewhere or help them with anything that's fine if you just say it sounds like you're facing a challenge the the damage that people did in trying to figure this out in blaming me and telling me that this is what god wanted for me that ruined a relationship that was like literally the one that saved my life and so oh you're talking about someone specific it's it's feels like hundreds of people have said these words. I don't need to. Yeah, I well, I really struggle with that as well, because it was like it's our first order of business when you get sober. It's like, oh, you've got to get a God. And it's like I've really struggled with it because I don't have a God of my understanding. I have a God of my not understand. I go with the I know it's not me.

god am i not understanding i go with the uh i know it's not me group of drunks good orderly direction like this i just like i you know i'm willing to dissipate it to the the the miracle of the universe yeah however i because of that i don't because i felt like the way that everything went down it felt like it was so choreographed from above it felt like the universe was making this happen why did i need to be there why did she need to be there why did that need to happen it felt like like all of these dominoes it reached super far in each direction that got me there to that point to have that transaction i know but that's like motor brain i mean like you feel that that's what you felt then can you at least now just go like, this is fucked up?

Or do you have to frame it as some sort of historical event? I think what's hard is that like, I've had to frame it and reframe it so many times because it was like, I would put it in a frame, the frame didn't work. Put it in another frame, frame didn't work. Put it in another frame, frame didn't work.

People were incomprehensible. Horrible. Yeah, I mean, it's who the fuck knows. knows i know that's a miracle we get through every day the more people you interact with the your odds get lower oh no totally and that's why i always say i have a god of my not understanding i don't get it i don't understand yeah so i've been doing working something on stage about like how this like the one thing that stuck with me after lynn passed away was that someone said to me you know people when they, when they die, their energy doesn't leave. And I'm like, I don't know if that's helpful. You're like, I got used to the human form.

Yeah. So now it's just a broad. Now she's just here. I liked her cooking for somebody else. Exactly. You know what I mean? That doesn't say it's nice. I mean, it stuck with me and I still kind of, you know know you talk to birds whatever you're gonna do but uh but so how so your brain it seems like

with that whole kind of the domino thing that so that's how you spun out yeah that's what that's what crippled you yes I felt untethered I felt felt completely unfounded. And it was almost like the universe were replicating the parents that I had who didn't care about where I was at and what was going on with me. So how long, what do you do in this period? Because like, I'm trying to think what years this is. So you can't act, you're not going on auditions. What are you doing? Just being depressed? Are you medicating what's happening yeah i tried medication medication has never worked for me um and i moved to la to jump start my career again because after a year of not working um i then well i did have that kind of quickly so you kind of hit the wall well i hit the wall and i wanted to i wanted to die i after a year after i got shot i was totally like oh i want to die so i then checked I got shot, I was totally like, oh, I want to die. So I then checked myself into St. Vincent's Hospital because I was like, I think I'm going to hurt myself. And then they put me on medication.

That medication seemed to be working, but I think it was a total placebo effect. Like, I think I just wanted something to work for me. And then I moved to L.A. being like, bitch, L.A., let's get a pilot. Bend the mohawk. Yeah, I'll just. Mohawk. Yeah, I'll just, well, I did one more movie, and I was like, I want to stop trying to fit into this life that doesn't maybe seem to completely want me. So I'm going to make it hard for myself?

Absolutely. I'm like, you're going to look so specific 20 years before it's cool again, and so good luck with that. That's when you came to our house. Yeah, and so funny, I remember that night, because I was literally way overdressed, So good luck with that. That's when you came to our house. Yeah. And it's so funny. I remember that night because I was literally way overdressed standing in your kitchen. I was probably in like a bathing suit and some like Frankie B's.

The top of my ass crack was probably hanging out. You were cooking some salmon and asparagus. You guys just seemed like power couple. And I was just totally like the fucking wild animal that was in your living room like hi guys like i'm in la you know what i mean now what you were like she'll calm down you know what i mean um and that's when like uh misha had that fierro oh the fear well i had a trans am i had that i remember the one with the bird on it fucking badass that's right you're driving that fucking trans am and you're smoky in the band and i was blonde mohawk i was really having like a fucking like you had a thing going on i had i was kind of reliving a teenage life that i never got to have because i was always dancing i wasn't

i wasn't always allowed to go to school dances and i had to kind of like look and be a certain way and it was like bitch you know what if everything's gonna try and kill me why don't i just fucking live you know what i mean so it was like transam t-tops mohawk it's crazy let's fucking get it let's get it you know how'd that go um it fucking went great it was a good it was a good time i was totally suffering inside of it though i wish i could have enjoyed that time more however when i look back at the pictures i'm like bitch you look awesome yeah um and then during that time i i moved out here and got like a yet another heroin addict girlfriend who was amazing and wonderful and then at some point it was us at astro burger and i was like it's me or the heroin and she goes it's the heroin uh and i mean she said those words uh that's not even like a fucking fun metaphor she was like, it's me or the heroine. And she goes, it's the heroine. And I mean, she said those words.

That's not even like a fucking fun metaphor. She was like, bitch, not you. Got on her orange Harley and drove off. And I said, you know what? Like, if I'm going to be, I just, if I'm going to be with crazy people, like, why don't I just choose love? And I don't care if it's dudes. I don't care if it's girls. Clearly it doesn't matter.

It doesn't fucking matter. Right. I'm trying to figure out how to like keep my feet on this fucking planet. Yeah. So I met and fell in love with a fashion designer and my baby daddy and I got pregnant with my son. And then it. I kind of remember that guy. Do I?

Yeah. I mean, I don't know. I don't know if you. Here's the thing. I started doing comedy in that. Do I? Yeah. I mean, I don't know if you... Here's the thing. I started doing comedy in that Mohawk phase for a few years. I was such a shit about that, though. I'm like, now she's doing comedy? Of course.

Yeah. So I don't know if I registered it. It was more of a storytelling gimmick then, right? Yeah, because I think I was mostly processing. Yeah, exactly. And so it was like... Because now you're now you're like a full-on uh cocky schtickster well i think it was like well because people someone

came up to me and was like you're really funny and i was like i know people tell me i'm funny and then he was like well you know if you want to come perform where were you performing then at the belly room and at the comedy Store was the first place I ever did comedy. And I had a great first set and I was like, oh, hi, hello. This feels really right. Yeah. So what year is that? 2002. Right.

Yeah. Okay. So that felt really right because for the first time I think I had my own voice. Because it was like dancing was like telling a story silently then it was acting telling somebody else's story right comedy is me telling my story yeah and i'd been given a big one and i was fucking on fire yeah and i was also kind of a little bit of an oddity people weren't performing in mohawks back then so it was like i could you know be up there in my leather pants. How out were you on stage? Pretty out at that time.

Yeah. And then got with my baby daddy and then had to reframe that. However, I got pregnant like six months after I met him. Yeah. And then once I had my son, I couldn't maintain comedy because I didn't really have the support to be out every night. Yeah. And you can't just like drop in on comedy. Okay. So you get't just like drop in on comedy. So, but okay.

So you get pregnant on purpose. Yeah. And you were just sort of, what was the impulse there, Mel? I think when you got. You got a Trans Am and a Mohawk and you're kind of running around LA like a baby. That's what I need. Exactly. That'll fill it all.

No, no, it wasn't like that. I think it was like it's always been the search for love uh-huh like in a really deep sense and i but i've never been that girl that was like i need a baby and let me watch your kids i've never been that you know what i mean i also had like hormones i mean my i could feel my fucking ovaries back then like a fucking motorcycle right just like let's go you know and i was with a dude and i was like i haven't used birth control in 10 years so i would like to have a child and so i'm not going to use birth control and he was like i want to have a kid too and it was like great

two wild animals coming together sure uh and then i instantly got pregnant because you just have to talk dirty to me and i fucking got pregnant. Yeah. And then a whole new chapter started with being a parent. Is he still in the life? Oh, yeah. No, my kid's with him every weekend. Always. Yeah. That's good.

Yeah. And you guys get along. Ish. I mean, I do a lot to maintain co-parenting. Yeah. How old's the kid? 16. Oh, yeah. He's a big guy he's awesome

yeah um i do a lot to maintain co-parenting which is very challenging um but we're almost done i mean essentially harrison is is on his own and he's okay solid he's such a great guy oh good i really really lucked out he's a great guy he's really really great you'd love him he's awesome he's so great really into music like like kanye just dropped his album and he was like you gotta listen to this yeah he's like you gotta put the headphones in so i'm like laying in his bed with the headphones in and i'm like oh yeah i'm like uh-huh like and i'm like those moments like i wonderful chef's kiss you know what what I mean? To like have that. But you feel like the kid's grounded and you were able to spackle the.

I do. That's good. And I do because I fucking put a lot of fucking hard work into myself to make sure that whatever happened in my childhood was not replicated with him. That's great. A lot of fucking hard work. Yeah. Well, I mean, you know know i think i've known people

that do it in spite of their childhood right so they they're like i'm gonna fucking and that's the wrong attitude because you can't get out from under it unless you get out from under yeah no i mean i think that can be a little bit of like the wind beneath your wings to fucking be like bitch no you know what i mean yeah however um i think i had like when so jeff and i broke up uh probably like a year and a half two years so he went on project runway and won and that was kind of like the flash point of like the end of our baby daddy yeah the end of our relationship because it was like fame fame adding to any sort of situation can make anything really challenging didn't i know

this guy he's a sober guy okay yeah yeah i kind of remember yeah yeah yeah and um and that ended our relationship and i was like so devastated because you have to understand like it was like getting shot and then like i couldn't make my career click back in my dad had died and now i'm like a brand new mom and like and then it was like fame was happening in our living room and not necessarily in the good way and like it was like i kept on just getting like hits hits hits and then i was like i think this is why and this is my opinion like i think this is why sometimes men grow up to hate their mothers because they're with grieving women which is is sometimes, well, it is not attractive. It's very challenging.

And I didn't want that. I didn't want to be that for Harrison. I didn't want him to witness me. So even in the past when I had fallen apart, you don't have a witness. You can just fall apart. You can just fuck whoever you want, eat whatever you want, do whatever you want, switch it up yeah back and forth up and down what what what who cares yeah in the presence of a child it got very different and i was like oh i need to get it together well it's like but you know that's amazing that you stepped up yeah because like we come from selfish people that

rationalize the difference between stepping up and rationalizing and not realizing, I've been rationalizing for a decade into this person's life. It's a big deal. Yeah. And so I got some real, real help with relationships. And I got some real, real help help with finances i realized that i had like some money stuff that was like i felt like i was repelling it i was like oh my god even my partner gets a hundred thousand dollars and somehow i fucking end up broke like i was like how does

this is a real gift you know what i mean um and um i just did a lot of really hard work. And also to like with a child, what's happening to is also to your childhood is, is being mirrored. You're watching and remembering what happened at that stage. Yeah. And like, we were just a loop back around to what you were saying at the beginning of this.

It's like when you see everything through a negative light, I remember all of the birthdays that didn't happen. All of the challenges that were a struggle. Heartbreaking. Yeah, and then so you're having to relive it. So I feel like sometimes what happens is with parents, they either really can click in and be like, okay, I see how I can make this different,

or this is going to repel me so much and I'm going to bounce because I can't fucking hack this. Yeah. And I feel like in the presence of a child, I feel like that sometimes presence of a of a child i feel like that is the sometimes can be the truest growth to really heal that childhood stuff stay in it yeah and when did you meet uh the current wife aaron air bear aaron aaron uh how old was the kid he was five oh okay um and we've been together a while oh my god 10 years we're married we've been married

seven yeah uh together 10 and um i had absolutely given up on marriage or relationships yeah i had even said to myself this isn't gonna work for you you've tried you've put in a good 40 years yeah you're done right let's fucking take a needle. I feel a little of that. Take the needle up off the record. And I just said to myself, you know what? Just have lovers. Who the fuck cares? Have lovers.

You've earned it. Whatever. Yeah. Be very clear. Hey, this is what I don't want this. I want this. Yeah. Scare the hell out of them.

First thing. I don't want to get married. I don't want a relationship. I think we should have some fun together. Let's hang out. Let's do it. Yeah. And I saw Aaron and I was like, and i'll start with you yeah and uh right out of the

gate oh yeah and i absolutely started with her and she turned out to be the greatest human uh that ever came into my life well it's a beautiful story i know now she's opening a restaurant so how did the comedy career begin to unfold how How did you sort of evolve into this kind of, I don't know how I want to frame it. You kind of, you know, power top. Undercover top. Yeah. After comedy with Harrison, I then moved into writing and directing and wrote and direct like four short films and had some screenplays and they had their own little kind of like

good success and that felt very good. And then with Aaron, I realized that there was some stability in my life. And I was like, I didn't quit comedy because I was like, I'm done with that. It was like it got taken away. I was very bitter about it. And you couldn't find a way to make the bread. Well, and I couldn't figure out a way to like someone had to care for my child while I'm you can't do things. Sure.

You know, there's a child there. And I just got to the point where I was like, this isn't done for me. I love doing this. And my wife and my kid were like go we're fine yeah and i had the freedom because you know when you're a parent your kid comes home at three o'clock you make dinner and then i'm out the door to go do comedy in my mind that also kind of triggered some ideas that of like what an absentee parent would look like and then i was scared i was like am i abandoning him is he going to be mad at me for this and my

wife and my kid looked at me and they were like bitch go like you're better when you're in doing what you love yeah so about like I think it's been five or six years now yeah since I've been back doing comedy and I just called everyone I called yeah that when I first started doing everyone was right where I left them sure for anybody out there who's taking a break everyone is right where you left them like Sure. For anybody out there who's taking a break. Everyone is right where you left them. Like, don't worry about it. You know what I mean? And for the one or two people. Well, those one or two people that now have Netflix specials and won't fucking pick up

your call anyway. But fuck them anyway. I hate those people. Yeah. And and then got a weekly show at the comedy store and was like boot camp back into the fucking trenches. Yeah. And then recorded a special and...

Yeah, I saw that one. It's been like happening. But what are you doing now? Aren't you involved with some other, a new show? Yeah, so I booked a part on the TV show Dave and shot the season finale. And was it well received? Yeah, I mean...

I didn't watch the show. No, I hear it's pretty groovy. It is really good. I really, I didn't watch the show no i hear it's pretty groovy it is really good i really i didn't understand who lil dicky is i'm maybe not the demographic that would maybe come in through his music but the show is pretty brilliant in my opinion when it comes to like the creative process the creative process with partners the creative process in la yeah really fucking nails it also there's a guy on there called Gata. He's amazing.

His journey with being bipolar. It's a pretty fucking epic show. And I was already a fan. So when I got the audition, I was like, wow, this would be really great to nail this. Oh, that's great. And then got to work with Andrew Santino

and of course Dave. Andrew's a good guy. Really, really fucking great cast and crew. Great. And it was really awesome, yeah. Well, good. I'm glad that everything's good. You seem good.

Yeah. Hyper aware. Super. Better. Ish. Yeah. It's always a struggle. Does it have to be?

No, 100% it doesn't. So what do we do? You literally just hang on day by day. I mean, just doing the best that you possibly can. Is there any way to stop the struggle? I haven't been successful with it. I mean, I found that like I have through all of the like work on relationships and sobriety and all of those things have found that I have been lucky enough to create a peaceful life.

My partner is not a challenge to me. If anything, she's an asset. Although I didn't get into that for her to be an asset. My kid is good. I have figured out how to have a career and have it maintain and not have to constantly be, you know,

damage control or pulling out because the relationship thing is going crazy. Like that's the thing about having all of this trauma and reenacting it. you know, damage control or pulling out because the relationship thing is going crazy. Like, that's the thing about having all of this trauma and reenacting it. It's all to get in the way of the thing that I really want. Like when you, I went to go, when you were, um, I saw you at Dynasty typewriter and you were talking about your mom and how like the dog and the husband and like, what a great way to just not have to do any connect. Yeah. Oh yeah. And that's, yeah, to just not have to do anything. That's it. Connect. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. And that's, I can blame everybody else. What a fucker. What a fucking lunatic. How did, I do not have to look at myself when I'm doing all that.

But the spotlight is on me now because it's just me and everybody else is doing their own thing. Like they're not there to complete me. They're not to like, I am partnering them

through this. Yeah. But you've, it seems like because of all this work and because of like your understanding of how it's playing out, you've got yourself some space. Yeah. You know, you don't have to wake up and be like, oh, fuck. Here this goes.

I find that anxiety is my number one problem with that. Like I'm always I have to I have to tell myself I'm not in a hurry like five times a day. It's like, what's what are you doing? Yes. Just stop it. Yeah. But I got it. You don't have to do anything I'm not in a hurry like five times a day. It's like, what are you doing? Yes. Just stop it. Yeah. I'm like, but I got to, you don't have to. You don't have to do anything.

Nobody's waiting. Nobody's tapping their toe. Nothing. Yeah. It's interesting because I work with artists with my company all the time and I'm constantly. What's the branding company? The Promotional Rescue. Yeah.

What is that? What is that? Isn't that, I did a podcast, right? You did. You did my podcast. I had no idea what it was about the promotional rescue talk show um i talked to people about how they promote themselves yeah i don't i i don't that whole subject sounds horrible i know but that's why i wanted to talk to you

because you have been successful in what you do however you've got a challenged relationship with it and i'm here to feature that it can be fucking rough and fucked up, but just fucking like, hang in there, keep going. Here's some ways to make it a little bit better. But like, you don't have to be perfect at it. It doesn't have to be fucking your dream thing or like a million followers. I don't even like the whole brand idea. But you have a great brand, so fuck off.

I know, but I put very little effort into it. I know, but you nailed it, which is why I wanted to talk to you. You're right, but there's a fine line between just what people call your brand it's it's it's like a a thing they hang on you know somebody you know realize self-realization okay so like whatever my public personality is just came by virtue of me pressing forward and it's not it's not the greatest one because there's a lot on the line

because i'm too i'm too public and i'm too i'm too uh open in that way uh so the brand is that yeah it's not necessarily it's a faulty brand but it's it's relatively authentic but it is but i don't see it as something like i'm moving this you know what i mean no i totally hear what you're saying but it's like even you know maria bam, who's like a client, like her last special is called Weakness is the Brand, which I feel like is so brilliant. Yeah, it's funny. And it's so helpful. But a client, so what do you...

I built her website. I run her social media. So this is a consulting service. All of it. So I consult people and I actually like implement it. So this is the major bread. This is the major money source. Yeah.

I mean, it helps me, affords me to do whatever I want and be my own boss, work in my gym jams. What's it called? Promotional Rescue. Promotionalrescue.com? Yeah. And people can go there and go like, I need help. Yep.

And they can see all my services. What are they? I can build your website. I can run your social media. I can talk to you about your strategy and how you want to do it. But I'm always coming from a place of like, how can you get this done? Not like trying to make you into something you're not. I'm not interested in that.

All right. Well, I'm glad that's working out for you. Yeah. No, I mean, I really. It's an interesting niche in the show business world, the modern show business world. I think it came really naturally only because, you know, I started promoting nightcl was you know 18 years old handing out flyers you know at at the tunnel and mars and it's like i have always understood promotion i've also just been one of those people where it's like i know everybody you know what i mean like i'm a that girl you know what i mean like

melanie will know somebody right i'm a natural producer sure i'm a natural project manager that's where the like the defects become an asset where it's like being out the need to know and understand everything that's freaking happening now people pay me to fucking do that for them yeah where it's like oh i can make that connection i can help you put this all together i can see all the details i can see it through to the end yeah because if you have an idea for your movie or your special or whatever and you can't get it off your fucking hard drive because also to the trauma of artists they don't want to talk about themselves and then it comes to a fucking grinding halt and i know that the in the in my own career coming to a grinding halt is one of my greatest pains so i would do anything to

like help people like get over that bridge do you call yourself a publicist no because that's like traditional outreach to people to get placement i just call myself a promotions consultant but what i do is like way deeper sometimes with talking to people about their resistance around being visible yeah it's very challenging for some people and they feel very vulnerable yeah they're like yeah they don't like it. I mean, promotion. I mean, your reaction is exactly the reaction. It's the breaks go on. You're just totally like,

I don't want to lie. No, I get it. I turn off Twitter and, you know, I get it. I mean, I understand it all,

but like, I'm fortunate. Yeah. However, I've landed like, I'm not like, I don't sit at home thinking like, how do I get more followers or any of that shit?

You know, and I'm, I actually want to pull back, not because of self-sabotage, just because like I want this space. Well, you're in a different space of people that when they come to me, they usually are struggling with it and they have a project that's either about to launch or they don't want it to get lost or they've launched it and they're not seeing the results that they want. And they're like, why?

And I'm like, OK, I can see this from the outside, give you a fresh perspective on it. And then also show you systems that can work. And my main thing is to teach you how to do it without feeling gross. Like if you feel gross or weird about this, we're going to have a hard time. How can we find a sweet spot so you start to see. That's another problem. I always feel gross and weird. Yeah.

But you do it anyway. It's like do it anyway. Yeah, I do. It's like, do it anyway. No, I do. In the face of it. I've gotten very good at that. And now you have people to help you. I'm sure you've got people that make the WTF posts for you.

No. No, you do it yourself? Sure. That's amazing. I have a producer. It's just two of us. That's great. Yeah, but all that stuff, yeah.

And, you know, I mean, I'm okay. The gross, weird thing, it makes me a living. It does. Feeling gross and weird. great and i yeah but all that stuff yeah and uh yeah i you know i mean i'm okay the gross weird thing it's it makes it makes me a living it does feeling gross which is which is the like you've got shows that you need to get butts in seats you're essentially like it's they're big bringer shows you got to get no i do that yeah but they seem to come you know well now i've got some people well you're kind of brilliant yeah Yeah, well, that's right. As are you. Thanks for talking.

You're a gem. Thanks so much for having me, Mark. Yeah. Melanie Vesey. I think we got to the bottom of some stuff. Her stand-up special, Wild Animal, is on Amazon Prime Video, and her podcast is called Promotional Rescue. Now let's play guitar. Let's play the Telecaster that Jay Maskis had sent to me. My friend Jay Maskis. Cool guitar. He's a cool guy. I'm very grateful for friends that have signature guitars and they're willing. They're willing to throw me a bone or a guitar in this case Thank you. boomer lives monkey lafonda cat angels everywhere Liv's, Monkey, La Fonda, Cat Angels Everywhere.

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