WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1267 - Julie Delpy

Episode Date: October 4, 2021

American audiences fell in love with Julie Delpy as the romantic French traveler Celine in Before Sunrise and its two sequels. But Julie didn't have an equal love affair with the making of Hollywood films. She tells Marc that she was always happier as a writer and director, and her ongoing fight against institutional biases and sexism left her more than a little frustrated. With her new comedy series on Netflix, On The Verge, Julie is creating an unfortunately rare depiction of women in their 40s and 50s. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category,

and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Lock the gates! Alright, let's do this. How are you what the fuckers?

What the fuck, buddies? What the fuck, Knicks? What's happening? I'm Mark Maron. This is my podcast. Welcome to it. Been doing it a long time. It's your first time here?

What's going on? How'd you hear about us? Welcome. Will you fill out a comment card? Could you fill out a comment card, please? We just want to hear how we're doing. We'd like to know if uh if our service was good and what your experience was here at the at the podcast how's it going folks you all right

it's fucking horrendous here california goddamn oil spill off the coast it's like the shit never fucking stops never stops coming it's like it's time to abandon this fucking state i think but you know what on on the plus side, the COVID thing is pretty low here. But there's no moisture, no water. The entire state is kindling. Half of it is on fire usually. And now there's fucking oil sludge. Killing fish.

Maiming ducks. And making it impossible to enjoy our coastline. Because what the fuck is wrong with these boats? The fuck? I can't. It's just like one thing after another. I'm sorry. What's going on with you?

I'm okay. I'm okay. It was just on my mind. I'm all right. Look, you guys, Julie Delpy is on the show today. You know her. You know her. All right. She has a lot of fans, actually. She's an actor, writer, director. Julie Delpy is on the show today. You know her. You know her, all right?

She has a lot of fans, actually. She's an actor, writer, director. You know her from the before movies with Ethan Hawke, before Sunrise, before Sunset, and before Midnight. And she's a gem. She's a goddamn gem, people. What a great lady. What a a great person she brought me a present do you know there's a certain type of person that appreciates when they're going to be a guest at

someone's home look i know that i'm just another stop on the junket for some people and i know even if they know the show that that's the case and you, you know, if I have them, which most of the time I do when people do my show, I'll give them a nice present. And there's been a couple of people that have brought stuff here. And I always remember it because it's it's a nice gesture. And it's something that I don't do enough. Even sometimes when I'm invited to parties, you're supposed to bring a bottle of wine. And then, like, I'm one of these people. Sometimes I'm like, well, we forgot to get the wine.

But I'm sure they have everything they need that's not the point and and julie brought me a beautiful book it was a tashin book which is already great a tashin art book hieronymus bosch, the complete works. I guess it says it's the 40th edition here online, but it's beautiful. It's hardcover. And he did all those amazing apocalypse paintings. And the reason she gave it to me or went out of her way to bring it or buy it for me was because she saw End Times Fun. And I thought that was lovely and thoughtful. And I'm her fan forever i liked her before what a sweet fucking thing to do and what a cool goddamn book that is

she's got this new show on netflix called on the verge i watched all of them it's got uh elizabeth shoe is in it too i haven't seen in a while with julie sarah jones is in it, who I haven't seen in a while with Julie. Sarah Jones is in it. She's done some great work. This woman, Alexia Landau, is in it. And I didn't really know her, but she's great. And I haven't seen Elizabeth Shue in a long time. Have you?

Maybe she's been doing stuff. I have a very, like, she has a place in my mind that's not great, to be honest with you. And it's, I don't know, it's just one of those fucking awkward moments. And we've talked about this, man. It's the awkward moments that stay with you. The embarrassing ones. The painful ones. Before I get into that, though,

I do want to talk a little bit about when James Murphy was on, the guy from LCD Sound System. When he was on the show back in July, he said the band wasn't ready to start doing shows again, but he would let us know when they are, and they are. It's happening. LCD Sound System will be playing 20 shows at Brooklyn Steel in November and December,

and the ticket presale starts this Wednesday, but you have to register for the presale by going to youarehere.bowerypresents.com. You got that? youarehere.bowerypresents.com you got that you are here dot bowrie presents.com tickets go on sale to the general public on friday october 8th elizabeth shu years ago it was just one of those things where it's it's like that scene in the you know? Can we talk about something other than show business? And they couldn't. So I'm trying to figure out what year it was, but my buddy Steve Brill, who was out here in Hollywood doing the Hollywood thing,

heavy into it, was getting married. This was his first wife in Lexington, Kentucky. And I believe I was still living in New York trying to hammer it out as a comic. I had no sense of Hollywood or what it was like to be in show business. I was still living in New York trying to hammer it out as a comic. I had no sense of Hollywood or what it was like to be in show business. I was just doing the thing,

living the life. So we get invited, me and my first wife, Kim, and it was kind of spur of the moment, like I was a last minute addition. That's happened before. Watch that episode of The Green Room on Showtime or whatever the fuck it was it's a great episode with me and gary shandling apatow ray romano and beau burnham because i think it was

just supposed to be gary shandling apatow romano and beau burnham they'd wanted to me to be on a show provenza the guy who runs the show he had booked me on the show with uh tommy chong joe rogan and rick shapiro i think and i was like i'm not fucking doing that show and i i love rick but i didn't want to be stuck in the fucking weed pack as a sober guy and i'm like look i said to paul i said look man i don't need to do the show i'm not hung up on it and uh it's no harm no foul i'll just pull out and he said no no we'll put you on another show and they wedged me into that panel with uh with those guys and it would turn out to be a great show but if you look at it that episode of green room which has become sort of a classic because you know um gary's no longer with us and

beau was a young man and people watch that thing but i'm not even in an actual seat you know if you watch that i was an afterthought so lexington kentucky we do the wedding thing so after the thing there's a tent situation a reception and you know steve's dug in here in hollywood at that time i'm just fucking doing comedy in new york steve is in show business i'm not in show business i don't understand show business i do now i do now so i'm at this table with he puts me at this table with the hollywood people pete berg and his then wife uh were were there. Elizabeth Shue was sitting next to me with her husband. Is his name David Guggenheim? And I don't know any of these people. Me and my

wife, Kim, are there and we're kind of outsiders. I'm just a dumb stand up. And these people are all doing the fucking young Hollywood thing. And and I'm like, who are you? I'm introducing myself. She goes, my name is Elizabeth, Elizabeth Shue. And I'm like, oh, you? I'm introducing myself. She goes, my name is Elizabeth, Elizabeth Shue. And I'm like, oh, it's nice to meet you. What do you do? I'm an actress. And I'm like, oh, really? So do you have something I would have seen?

Like, are you in a movie right now? And she says, yes, it's called Leaving Las Vegas. And it's coming out next week or something. Like, I just felt so small and fucking embarrassed. And like, all right, all right. I'm not in show business. I didn't know. I didn't know.

But you remember, man, right? You remember that feeling, don't you? Don't you remember that feeling? Yeah. So I just got back from Bloomington, Indiana. I go there every year usually, but I haven't been there in a few years because of stuff. But I go to the Comedy Addict, which is one of my favorite clubs in the country. It's a great place to work out and I wanted to work out. Did five shows up there. The place seats only like maybe 120, 130. I'm not even sure. Intimate joint. And it's Bloomington, which

every year I go back, I'm excited to play that club but every year i go to bloomington i'm like this fucking place what is going on here there's something weird going on here it's a college town and i get you know everyone kind of gets what a college town is but this is a college town that's one of those ones that's stranded in the middle of fucking indiana and it's not the kids. I saw a lot of college kids. And you know what? They look the same as all college kids ever did always. It's sort of wild what doesn't change.

But it's not the college kids. It's the people that never leave the college town. Or the people that stay there. Or the people on the periphery. The locals that live in the college town. There's sort of a... It almost feels like the college is built over some ancient darkness. I'm not sure what,

but maybe they opened a portal in that quarry. Maybe they dug that hole too deep and something came out. There's some frenetic kind of weird dark energy pulsating through Bloomington. And I love it. I love it. I stayed at a different hotel this time

because there's just too many memories. The old Marriott Courtyard, just too many weird memories. All consensual, all a bit sort of like, wow, that was a weird weekend. Yes, yes, that's Bloomington. That's Bloomington to me. But a few days there. Great. Great shows. I want to thank all the people of Bloomington for coming out. Coming out to hear the new stuff, the dark stuff, the good stuff.

All right, look. Julie Delpy is here. Charming, smart, great director, actress, writer. Season one of On the Verge is now streaming on Netflix. That's a show that she has on there, a series. And she brought me a very beautiful Tashin book. Telling you, man. Mandy Moore brought cookies. Ahmed Ahmed brought a mug.

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FX's Shogun, a new original series streaming February 27th exclusively on Disney+. 18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. So you were talking about New York? It was the first place you came? Well, no, actually, wait a minute.

No, first I came to L.A., actually, but I had a horrible time in L.A., and then I went to New York and stayed for a couple of weeks. What year is this? 88. And you had a horrible time in L.A.? I don't feel like you like L.A. that much. No, I do like it, actually. I like the weather, and I like the nature.

But, yeah, I mean, I go back to Europe all the time. What happened in 88 when you got here? You know, someone gave me something. Like a drug? Yeah. I was at the Chateau Maman and I jumped out of the second floor. What? Yes.

Landed on bushes, broke a rib, tripped for 48 hours. That's crazy. Was at Cedars-Sinai for 48 hours after that. And actually, it was really weird. There was this really strange guy

at the chateau at the time who was taking care of the chateau at night. He was like out of a vampire movie. And actually... 88. 88. This weird guy that i met in the lobby helped me up i was bleeding everywhere and it was vinnie gallo i found out years later

vincent gallo so it was like a horror movie i mean a little bit dark just because it wasn't he had a featured role so it made it kind of creepy i literally had a panic attack like just just from not just the falling, but the aftermath of, like, going back upstairs and... Oh, my God. Yeah, yeah. You don't know what it was? No, I never found out.

And you were just with people, and they were like, here, take this, and then you... I smoked something, so I don't know what it was. I guess it was pot, but maybe I had a weird reaction. You were jumping off the balcony? Yeah. Yeah. I've had a bad experience with things you smoke, but it didn't last that long. This sounded like it went on a while.

Yeah. I don't know. What were you here for? Was that the first trip to kind of like meet? Yeah, yeah. To see what it was like, you know, LA. And I was at the hospital the whole time tripping. And I never did drugs after that, not even like smoking anything.

Really? That was it? It scared the hell out of me. I just never tried anything, never. That was before you did any of the movies. That was just you coming here to see in France. Well, I had done a couple of films in France, but yeah. But you're like, I got to go to LA and check it out. Check Hollywood.

Did you have friends here? Killed myself. No, no, no, nobody. I was just going. I went to the Chateau. I knew a couple of French people that were going there at the same time. It's a production company and I went with them. Did you stay there a lot?

I've never really been there. I've been there once. I used to live there. Really? Because when Ballatz bought the Chateau and fixed it, it was like completely kind of a disgusting place in the 80s and stuff. And he fixed it, revamped it, like the period and stuff. I ended up going like, I lived there because my friend was fixing the inside. He was a designer.

So you just lived there? So I lived there with a couple of gay men. Yeah. You know, every room, we went from room to room living there. I had the keys of the chateau forever. Really? I could go there to the pool every night, you know, anytime I wanted. When was this?

All throughout the 90s. You just lived there? Well, no, I lived almost a year and a half there. And then eventually I found a place. Was there people there? But I would go to the pool there all the time. Right. Was it open for business?

No, it was closed for business for a long time. So it was just you and a couple of people hanging out in the hotel? Yes. And you'd just cook and eat and whatever? Yeah, live half in the kitchen. Really a lot of fun. It was a lot of fun. That sounds like a nice thing.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So now this series, I watched all of them. Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah. That's a lot. It's a lot of you. It's a lot of people.

It's a lot. Not just me. I know. Thank God. There's a lot of people involved. I haven not just me i know thank god there's a lot of people involved i haven't seen elizabeth shu in a while yeah it was nice to see her she's great now what was the plan i mean our because it seems like where you ended it if you do another bunch of them it's going to be all covid yeah i mean that's pre-covid right well yeah but you did close with the sort of like the the ominous what's next yeah right yeah yeah yeah so do you do you know are you going to do an

entirely masked season now the most boring season of all time in history of of any tv show that would be hilarious an entire 12 episode of of masked people. Just totally peak COVID. Yeah, yeah. Or are you going to place it like at the end of COVID? No, actually, I was planning, if there is a second season, I don't know yet. But, you know, it all depends on the algorithm with Netflix. How's that algorithm treating? Do you have any idea?

Well, I think it's okay. But, you know, it has to be amazing for it to work out. You know, it's a show about women in their 40s and 50s. You need to, you know, it has to be amazing for it to work out. You know, it's a show about women in their 40s and 50s. You need to, you know, it's like the dog with two legs at the pound. You know, it's like you need to be really beautiful and special to get adopted. Somebody will like it. Yeah, yeah. I'm not a cute puppy anymore.

So, you know, I might be put to sleep like straight directly. But it seems like most of the audience, I mean, what is that? Where's that Kaminsky method? That seemed to do all right. And they're older. Yeah, yeah. I don't know about that. Yeah, but I think older is like you pass to another category of there's wisdom and people look at you a certain way.

Like they made it. I talk about it in the show, the blind spot of, you know, women, which is like, you know, you don't really exist anymore. What age are you thinking where you don't exist anymore? I think 47 till about 65. And then after that, you're just old. The thing is that, you know, women don't really get much attention from, you know, whatever, 45 until, you know, 65 or something like that. We're not grandmother.

We're not, we're still mothers, but not really. I don't know. Yeah. I don't know what's happening. We'll find out. We'll find out. I guess it is sort of a weird zone. Yeah.

But I mean, I find that like the like I I think everybody's more interesting once they get past 45. I think so, too. But, you know, it's a cultural thing. It's I have no idea. We'll see. We'll see what happens. You know, it'll be a, but the beginning, how, how do you, I got to ask you some questions though, in terms of like the French sensibility. Yes. Around like when you grew up, who were like, I have no idea, you know, about French culture,

you know, french culture you know entertainment wise so yeah when you're growing up in france you know both your parents are actors like and your father's in this right briefly yeah it's a brief moment yeah but what what what were they involved with i mean what like what built your brain oh yeah yeah okay um you know because like they seem like you know kind of uh interesting people. Well, they didn't do like mainstream theater. At all? Mainstream anything.

They did very little. My mom a little more because she was coming from classic theater training. My dad started theater at the Army in Algeria. At the Army? Yeah. In the Army. Army theater. He started, he became an actor in the Army.

In Algeria. Yeah. Algeria. Yeah. Like the Battle of Algiers. Yeah. Yeah. In the army. Army theater. He started, he became an actor in the army. In Algeria. Yeah. Algeria. Algeria. Yeah. Like the Battle of Algiers. Yeah. Yeah.

Basically, he was in that, I mean, he was in that age group. It was the draft. They didn't have a choice. I mean, my dad would have done anything not to go, but, you know, he had no choice. He couldn't be a resistor. Well, you would end up in jail or mental institution or first in the role of battle. You know, killed first. So they would like punish them by killing them, basically.

Wow. So what is theater in the army in Algiers look like? I think it was a wonderful escape from, you know, not going. I mean, he was not meant for battle. He was like his dad killed himself because of, you know, PTSD. Really? From World War II? World War I.

Really? Yeah, really. He was older. Wow. So he was like really scared of, ended up like this. Like he went crazy and killed himself eventually. And so, you know, like he was really avoiding war at any cost. So he ended up, you know up doing accounting and theater eventually.

Right, just anything to stay off the front lines. Yeah, exactly. He would have been killed in five minutes because he was not ready to kill anyone. Right, you sort of have to be ready to kill. It's one or the other. Yeah, but did he have any training? That was the first time he did anything.

He had training just in the army, and then he went on and started acting when he came back to paris met my mother they did theater together they did really kind of you know different kind of theater they did uh auteurs that were kind of different you know my dad i remember when i was a nine years old yeah my dad played a woman in a play written by a guy named Coppy, who was an Argentinian writer, who was very involved in the gay scene. Also, a lot of drugs and stuff. Not my parents, but the world around them.

Are we talking the 60s? 60s, late 60s, early 70s, yeah. Okay. And then 70s, yeah. Exciting time in France. Yeah, very exciting time. Yeah. So they're doing weird kind of-

We play, my dad plays women. I've seen my dad change a women pad on stage, like he had his period. Like the other actor was without underwear. I remember seeing his balls like right on the first. And it's not traumatic. It's funny for a kid. How old are you then?

Like eight. But you're with other people, right? In the audience? Yeah, it's not a weird, I mean, it's not traumatic. It's funny for a kid. How old are you then? Like eight. But you're with other people, right? In the audience? Yeah, it's not a weird. I mean, it's funny. It's crazy, but it's quite funny, you know? So they're kind of doing the kind of living theater. Mad, yeah.

Absurd, crazy 70s stuff. Yeah, completely nuts. But no movies or nothing? A little bit of movies. My dad was in a few films and stuff, but not really movies. They were in two theaters, completely nuts. But no movies or nothing? A little bit of movies. My dad was in a few films and stuff, but not really movies. They were in two theaters, like, mostly. So when you're growing up, like, what is entertainment in France? Like, I have this sense, like, French comedy.

What is French comedy? You know, there was some good French comedies. My parents were not crazy for French comedies. At the time, they were more, you know, into, you know, my dad was a cinematek. You know, he would bring me four or five times a week to the cinematek and we would see Casavetes, Bergman. Oh, yeah. Not really comedies that much. Maybe Woody Allen as comedies.

Yeah. You know, but not really. I mean, French comedies like much. Maybe Woody Allen has comedies. But, you know, but not really. I mean, French comedies like they weren't big. My mom would bring me to see a few. What was that guy's name? Jacques Tati? Yeah. They love Jacques Tati.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. For sure. Jacques Tati was one of them. They like comedies that were kind of sophisticated, like Rule of the Game, like Renoir. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, but it wasn't really like mainstream French comedies. A few.

Yeah. Eventually, they started liking those guys that did the Père Noël et Tuneur Dieu, which is the Santa Claus is a Bastard. I don't know what it's,

it's mixed nuts. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think they made a remake in America, but it was not as funny. And then, yeah, so it was mostly

like independent cinema. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They were intellectuals. I mean, they were not. Yeah, right. So they was mostly like independent cinema. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They were intellectuals. I mean, they were not. Yeah, right. So they were artists and their sensibility was artists. Yes, very. And you're the only kid?

Yes. I mean, they were dirt poor. That's for sure. No money whatsoever. They stayed poor? They stayed poor, but they didn't care at all about money. I mean, they didn't want to be rich. I mean, they never tried to be rich they were always poor the minute they would make a little

money we would go to a great restaurant spend all of it and it was gone and i remember like when i was growing up my grandmother was living with us because they were always out and uh doing theater at night and stuff and uh my grandma and we had no bathroom we were living i know people can't believe it but it's like i grew up without a bathroom until i was like seven years old so where'd you go so they would so we would all go with a with a with a washcloth yeah at the kitchen sink oh yeah and i remember my dad complaining about my grandmother's uh white white pubic hair in the food disgusting why pubic hair in the food. So disgusting. Why am I talking about this?

I don't know. But it's important to know. That's how I grew up. Yeah. No, and we would go to the toilet in the courtyard. There was a hole. A hole in the courtyard. Well, a hole behind doors.

Like a Turkish toilet. Right. It's like a hole. It was meant to be a toilet. Yeah. Yeah. And then I think once a week we would go to public bath to take a shower. Oh, my God.

With all the people that didn't have a shower. So this is how you grew up for seven years of your life? Yes. Then eventually they bought a little, I mean, they rented the apartment next door and were able to turn the kitchen into a bathroom. But tiny, like we're talking. But it doesn't seem like, you know, I think for most people that would seem like, if I heard this story in a different tone. Yeah.

Yeah, I could be crying saying that, but I'm not. It's actually not traumatic at all. It's funny because, like, there's a lot of traumatic things in life, but this is not one of them. Well, I think it must be because of the nature of your parents. They must have been fun, loving people. Well, they were not unhappy. They were extremely happy. They were partying a lot, you know, drinking every night.

And leaving you with your grandmother. Exactly. Who was like pointing the finger at them saying, never be like them, Julie. Never be like them. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah. Oh, my God. So she was the voice of reason.

She was like the old-fashioned kind of like, you know, folding plastic bags, keeping each of them, you know, kind of. Oh, that's so funny. I love grandmothers like that. I mean, my grandmother raised me, basically, and I love that she was. Thank God she was able to tell you. To tell me not to be this crazy person. Were you able to succeed?

Huh? Did you not be that crazy person? Yeah, no, I became very actually careful with my money. I mean, my friends sometimes say I'm a little tight with money, but you know, I will take the bus to go somewhere. I can take a taxi. Yeah, yeah, I have this side of me that's a little bit. I think that people that grow up with, you know, like kooky kind of like out of control parents of whatever kind, either they're going to be that or they're going to be the controlling kind. Yes, yes. And I'm a little more on the controlling, even though I had a period where I drank quite

a bit when I was younger. But you sort of have to, right? I partied in my late 30s, late 20s. No, late 20s. Sorry. 30s. I was done already. So when do you start?

Like, I mean, were you being were you in shows? Did your parents drag you into the theater? Sometimes I did a few plays with them. Yeah? I was very scared on stage. And actually, I never did stage. Always? When you were a kid?

Always terrified. Really? Terrified of stage and never ended up doing stage. Really? Probably because I was so scared. And you don't feel... Even now you think you would be? I'm very scared of facing the public.

Yeah, I'm terrified. Yeah, I'm a little bit. I would never do what you do, for example. I mean, it's one of my main terror. I mean, I did do,

I did have a band for a while. I did music on stage. It was different though. I was kind of like acting in my early 30s. And what kind of music? I played before the Pixies

at festivals in Spain and then... Really? Yeah, at festivals. I was doing okay, actually. I was not a great singer, but I was doing okay. Was it rock music? Yeah, sort of. Yeah? Yeah. Music you wrote? Yeah. Uh-huh. And you had a band. Yes, I had a band. Well, I mean, that's different. I mean, because you can kind of get lost in that. Yeah. was pretending to be a singer i mean i was pretending i was singing but i was like acting as if i was a singer suddenly you know what i mean it was a different yeah and also like i just started doing more music on stage and like if you get into the music and you close your eyes you can you don't even know you're in front of audience yeah you can forget a little bit you can

also i was making jokes i was kind of like acting slash, you know, I was doing- Some sort of rock and roll burlesque of some kind? I don't know. I was not stripping. No, I know, but I mean like you're doing jokes and- Yeah, a little bit to make myself- Cabaret. I'm sorry, not burlesque.

No, burlesque. Yeah, that I wouldn't do. But yeah, it was funny. It was funny. I had a good time doing it. I really had a good time. So when do you start thinking about acting like for real? As a kid, well, I needed to get out of my house because I needed to have a normal life. So at 14, I decided I wanted to work and be independent financially.

So you moved? So I moved legally. I was not allowed to move. My mom really didn't want me to move. So I moved the day of my 18th birthday to get out and I rented an apartment. I had it all planned already. But I was making a living by the age of 14. Doing? Acting. Really? Yeah. In what? I started with Jean-Luc Godard in Detective, and then I went to do, I did three things with him, King Lear. Oh, you were in his King Lear? Yeah. Wow.

So, and you were how old? 14? I was 14 in Detective, 16 in King Lear. Now, working with that guy. Yeah. Because you're a director now, and this guy is one of the preeminent auteur director guys, but it always seems like his process is not necessarily one to model yourself after, but you must have picked up something. Well, you know, when I met him, I said, listen,

you don't have to cast me. I really just wanted to be on his set to see how he works. How did he find you? How did you find each other? I had put my photo everywhere at casting directors. Oh, okay. So I would do casting auditions and stuff. They bring you in. And it actually didn't go very well because I'm very shy. You auditioned. Yeah. Yeah. It was pretty bad.

Actually, I'm really bad at auditioning. Yeah. All my life has been kind of disastrous. Like I get panic attacks from being in a room auditioning. You do? Yeah, I hate it. Because of the people there? Again, in front of people? Yeah, I get panic attacks from being in a room auditioning. Yeah, I hate it. Because of the people there? Again, in front of people? Yeah, I feel being judged.

Maybe if you had your band with you. Yeah, maybe. That would be good. Well, I'm sorry. I know I'm auditioning for this part, but do you mind if those guys are here? Like a bunch of guys with their guitars. Just ready to play while you do your... So you're not great at auditioning because you freak out.

Yes, I'm really bad. I get... Really, it's like a horror movie for me. The room starts to distort. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I don't like it either. I get nauseous.

And then I very often run off. I grew to get resentful of the people. Well, your insecurity turns into. It's sort of like, who the fuck are you to judge me? Yeah, exactly. This isn't even that good a script. Why am I even here? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know, I know, but I'm not like... I haven't

gone to that... You haven't gotten angry? No, yes, I get angry. Yeah. Easily. I'm actually much better than I used to be, but I remember I used to have anger issues when I was most of my life, but I've been better for 12 years with my kid.

Having a kid made me less of an angry person. Did it? Or did it just make you behave yourself? No, it's just made me less angry altogether. Like happier, I guess, or something. I don't know what it is. Oh, that's nice. So, okay.

So you're going in for Godard. So, now that I say I have anger issues. No, no, no. I don't really have anger is oh that's nice so okay so you're going in for gadard so now that i say i have anger issues no no no i don't really have anger issues like out of the blue you know it has to be created by something i get it yeah you're not mad right now huh you're not mad right now right now i have no reason yeah good i'm really mad why do you have a hammer here well i mean some people are like that what is this this shit? Yeah, what is this shit? So you go in for him. Was it intimidating?

Did you know his work at 14? Yes, I did. I had seen most of his films. Really? I was a big fan of his films. Well, my dad was dragging me to the cinematics as I was five years old. Yeah.

So I had seen most of Godard films. Yeah. By that age. I would say all of them, if not all of them. Because my dad is obsessed with Godard. He is. And so I met him when I was 14, and I think he was impressed that a 14-year-old had seen his entire, you know.

Uh-huh. So he hired me to act because even though I, he said, yes, I could have you come on set if you want, but why not get paid and play in the film? Yeah. And that's it. And what'd you play? I played.

My name was like the young woman with a clarinet because I was playing clarinet at the time. Yeah. So I played clarinet the whole time. Yeah. And I was a very bad clarinet player. I've never been good at clarinet. But that's what he wanted. Yeah.

Like it was cute. I was like a young girl playing clarinet throughout the film. It didn't really make sense, but you know. What was his, but he wanted you around? I think he wrote the part for me to be there because I wanted to see how he worked. And what, how did he work? It was intense. Like it was intense.

Like he would, he would sometimes go a bit angry. He had an issue with his DP. He was fighting a lot with him. Oh, really? But was it all, was there a script? There was a script, but we would give, well, we were given page every day. Yeah.

So I don't know if there was a script that he was keeping from us and then, but no one read a script. We just were given things once in a while. Oh, okay. So he was suggesting, so it was improvised or he would tell you what to say? No, no, he would things once in a while. Oh, okay. So he would suggest things? So it was improvised or he would tell you what to say? No, no. He would give us page the morning.

Okay. Okay. And that's what you were shooting that day? Yeah. Okay. Exactly. But did it seem... Because like the movies I've seen of him, they seem kind of fragmented and interesting

and almost not actor-like. No, and it's more art than films. Yeah. It's more philosophical. Yeah. Whatever it is. No, and it's more art than films. It's more philosophical, whatever it is. Yeah, I know. He's like the scientist of cinema to me. He's more than a filmmaker in a weird way. But was he a nice person?

Did you like him? I did enjoy working with him. I did get along with him, and he was very kind to me, very kind to me. Interesting. And the King Lear, I kind of remember when that came out. Who played King Lear? I can't. Was it Burgess Meredith?

And then. Maybe it was. It was Burgess Meredith because that's how I met him. And then I was playing one of the. Right. And Molly Wingwald was playing one of his daughters. Right. I remember this Peter Sellers

the theater yeah yeah I remember I didn't see it but I remember when very strange film came out

it was like what the fuck is this yeah it's it's a little bit still that still that feeling when you see the film

and you went to you saw it because you're in it yeah I mean you know when you get into the mode of Godard I think you start understanding his films more. I think now it's harder for me to get it than it was when I was younger in a way that I was used to seeing his films a lot. He's still around, isn't he?

He's still alive. He's like 91. Yeah. Are you guys friends? No, no, no. But he's always been very nice. Like he writes letters on books to me. Yeah.

Letters to me. He wrote a beautiful letter to me in one of his books. And, you know, that he didn't send me, but he published. Yeah. You know. That's nice. Yeah, very nice. Very nice.

And it was not. He was very, very respectful, very kind, very polite with me. He's not always like that with people so i was lucky so you felt uh you felt uh at least a little special so did the godard movies give you some profile at least in france yeah in france only yeah and then i went to do a a bertrand tavernier movie i did a leo scarrax movie and then i I did a Volker Schlondorff film when I was 20 with Sam Shepard. How was that? Sam Shepard was not an easy person to work with. Oh, really? No. Huh. Not really easy. Intense, like broody or like... Like moody. Yeah. Like you didn't know

which day it's going to be. Oh, really? Yeah. Is it going to be a good day or a bad day? I guess everybody has these periods, you know? Yeah. Yeah. I was crying sometimes. I don't know what was going on. I was just trying to- Act? Act and do the best job I could.

Did you train at all to act? I did train, yeah. Where? I did some acting class for a while, but not really that much of training. I don't remember. I actually did the actor's studio when I went to New York. Yeah. And I did some classes in France.

I trained more as a writer and director than I trained as an actress, actually. I went to film school, basically. Where? New York. You did? Yeah, NYU. Oh, you did? You went to NYU?

Yeah. And how old were you when you did that? 22. Oh, so like you did the film program at Tisch kind of thing? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's not really, I mean, the best training I've had is looking at those directors like Kieslowski, Godard, whatever. Yeah.

I worked with. Because you did some of that before. You worked with them before. So you had all this experience doing movies before you went to film school. Yeah, yeah. So you went to New York to do film school? Yeah. That was the plan?

Well, I wanted to... Not to be an actress? No, no. I wanted to learn to direct. I mean, very early on. I saw someone got out some interview of me when I was 16, and I'm talking about writing and directing. It was always the thing you wanted to do. Always.

Yeah. Always, because I was not so happy as an actress only. Like, it made me feel unhappy. Like, I wasn't. Why? I don't know. It was a weird time. I love it.

Being a young, pretty girl. Yeah, yeah. You know, it was like, I hate it. You know, I remember I did a film once and I had, like, an equal part with the other actress in the film, but she ended up dating the director. at the end she had like a much bigger part and I was like shit I'm not ready to do that to get the bigger part you know what I mean like yeah like I don't want to do this you know I don't want to be dependent on yeah that crap yeah did you so did you come up against that a lot a lot yeah I mean a lot um and uh but i always avoided it like it's

never got to the point where i was in the room with that person you know i've always i mean maybe once you were never given like this choice no well yes but i was able to avoid it before i was like you know right that complete like right in front of my face i didn't have to run off you know, fait accompli, like right in front of my face. I didn't have to run off, you know. Right, right, right. I mean, once actually when I was 13, but, you know. 13? Oh, yeah. That's France? That's France, yeah.

Oh, my God. I know. I remember my dad was waiting for me downstairs. I didn't tell him right away. Was it an audition? Yeah, the director's home. And I waited to be in the subway to tell him. And I was crying and crying.

My dad wanted to go punch the guy. He was so angry. And then he explained to me, you know, you don't have to be that. You don't have to do this to be a great actress. You don't have to be any of that. You know, he explained to me that I did the right thing, obviously, right? Well, yeah, it must have been terrifying. I threw something in the guy's face and left.

So he came at you. Yeah, at 13. Can you believe it? Well, that was like pretty, like literally a horrible hands-on lesson. Yeah, I know. I'm sorry. But then from then on, I was very. You knew.

Yeah. You knew that like. And I had the reputation to be a bit of a bitch because of that, you know, obviously. Just to maintain boundaries and protect yourself. Yes, exactly. Oh, my God. Isn't that amazing? But things have changed now, which is good for young women now.

Hopefully it's getting better. Yeah, hopefully. Hopefully for 13-year-olds. At least the 13-year-old can avoid it. I mean, I'm sorry I'm laughing. I'm laughing because it's such a horrible thing if you think about it. It's better to laugh about it than to cry. Now, but was the big like uh the big break

was europa europa though like is that agnieszka holland was great to to be in that one yes i mean i think it was a bunch of little break then the before starting the before when i was 23 24 before sunrise right but you did so many different ones though you did the the three the three colors movies right yeah i mean you did i remember killing zoe i remember that movie also yeah You did so many different ones, though. You did the Three Colors movies, right? Yeah. I remember Killing Zoe. I remember that movie. Killing Zoe also. That was a wild movie. Was that a bank robbery movie?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that was kind of a good movie. It was fun. Yeah, yeah, very fun. Yeah, I remember. Yeah, I did that as well. Yeah, I did a bunch of stuff before. But the dream was to write and direct.

But when you came to New York you were already a pretty established actress right yeah and was when you said I'm going to NYU were your agents like what well I didn't really tell them oh I I just you know I realized very quickly that if I told agents that I was writing they weren't too crazy for it you know they thought maybe i was wasting my time or you know they want actors to be dedicated to you know and who'd you study with over there what was the uh like what what were you trying to uh what did you see as your your path in terms of the type of things you wanted to write you know i was into indie stuff you know yeah. I liked Jarmusch and Spike Lee. Yeah, yeah.

But I was also a fan of bigger films. I loved Milos Forman. Oh, wow. I mean, he's my favorite director. I want to watch Amadeus again. It's just so good. It's always so good.

And the director's cut, The Three Hours, is even better. Really? It's just brilliant i just i watched cuckoo's nest again i watched it with my son recently oh really we it's my son's favorite film now how old is your son 12 yeah but i don't know he can handle it yeah he can no he actually wanted to know about because we talked about they talked at school a lot about mental issues because

of covid and everything yeah a lot of kids got depressed and stuff so you wanted to know about it and i was like i love this film do you want to see it it's a little rough but you know yeah there's something to it that's very beautiful too right did that help him understand mental issues yeah no he liked it a lot he said it's a beautiful film yeah i talked to christopher lloyd recently. And it's so interesting to, because he had a fairly prominent part in that movie. It wasn't like he was a star, but he's in that movie.

No, no, and he's great. He's great. They all great. They are. Oh my God. But you talk to those guys, and they go right back to it. At that point in their career, whatever movie it is,

but sometimes I talk to these old dudes, and the ones that were defining or the ones that seem like amazing movies they they can go right back to it in their head and they get excited i'm sure because it must have been a great a great moment it must have been crazy right yeah do you have moments like that from movies no i don't know i don't really i don't remember so much like i move on so much i'm so much into the writing and directing no in the next step yeah i'm always in the yeah in the present or the few are projecting myself into next are you anxious anxious i mean in general i mean do you have anxiety or tremendous oh so yeah you can't appreciate anything no no it's a horrible no my life is no no but i actually enjoy some shoot i have to say i've enjoyed directing a few films there's

some french film i did like a film called the sky lab actually it's an english title because it's based when did you do that oh yeah i see 10 uh 10 years about 10 12 years ago i shot and it was a french movie it's a french. We had an amazing time. But was it a popular movie? Pretty popular in France. Yeah? I don't think it came out here. It's very French.

Oh, sorry. I have to be closer. Well, you can pull the mic back there if you want. You okay? What's going on? No, I have like a, I don't know, my gallbladder is acting out. Yeah. It's okay.

It's anxiety. You know, it gets all tied up. Do you need anything? No, no, I'm fine. And you know it's your gallbladder? Yeah. It's okay. It's anxiety. You know, it gets all tied up. Do you need anything? No, no, I'm fine. And you know it's your gallbladder? Yeah. I think I have a bit of a stress gallbladder. How would I know if I have that?

You just have a pain right here. It's okay. Because I have a little pain right there sometimes. But I don't know if it's my gallbladder. That looks more like if it's lower, it's the colon. No, maybe. Sorry. So you do a little...

Medical. I can do a little medical yeah you you spend a lot of time yeah yeah a lot i can actually help you out if you want with that stuff no but i mean not specifically the colon but you know the whole body from head to toes i'm pretty much i'm very knowledgeable really but yeah why i don't know just it interests me i only read uh science papers and medical papers. I don't know why. But is it from panic? From, no.

I just, I've always been interested. In the body? Yeah, in the body. Yeah. But it's not like web MD stuff, right? You just, you study things, but you're not always sort of like, oh my God, what's this pain? I think I'm dying. A little bit, but it becomes a genuine interest in medical stuff. You your panic eventually the panic becomes medical quickly oh yeah become research what's your what's your latest research

oh i'm not gonna go into it let's let's move on to the next subject what was the other subject we were just on we're talking french movies yeah we're talking about sky lab oh yeah i enjoy shooting sky lab i enjoy i enjoy shooting the show, too, I have to say. What was Skylab about? It's a family reunion the day before the Skylab crashed onto Earth. So it's set in 1979. And you wrote it. And I wrote it. So what was the vision?

Like, you know, what was it about Skylab arriving? It was capturing one day in the life of this family, which is basically based on my family. Because my family is, my dad is very left. Yeah. And the rest of my family is very, not the rest, but some part of my family is very right politically. So I remember growing up with major, you know, the dinners would always end up with, you know,

people were about to kill each other. Right. So it was, okay. But it's funny. It's very funny. But did the Skylab thing bring everybody together? Was that why was Skylab part of it? No, no, no, no. They keep on fighting. No, but it's always this thing,

you know, looming. You know, the Skylab is supposed to fall onto Earth and we don't know where it's going to fall. That's what, in the news, that's what it was. Sure, sure. Right, right. I remember my mom mom they were hoping it was going to be in the water exactly and it did in australia but my mom at the time was convinced it was going to fall on my head so i spent the entire week that summer on my head that kind of mom that kind of mom so i spent my entire week that summer of like you know being terrified that the Skylab was going to fall on my head.

So your mother was constantly worried? Yes. Yeah. And that's why you're crazy? Why are you doing... Well, that's why you're so panicky. Yeah, of course. Out of all people on earth, my head.

Right. I know. No, my parents were kind of worrying people, and then it makes you nervous. I know. No, I had to. My parents were kind of worrying people. And then it makes you nervous. I know. It's very. Because it's like, it's not. They think it's some manifestation of love. But it's not.

It's really just panic. It's your own panic that you're putting on your kid. And, you know, because you're afraid that something's going to happen to them. And what would you think about yourself if that happened? Yeah. So, yeah. It's a projection of your them. And what would you think about yourself if that happened? Yeah. So, yeah. It's a projection of your anxiety. Yeah.

I know. I hope I'm not doing that with my son now. A little bit sometimes. I don't think I ever thought about it for myself until just now, until talking to you. And I'm pretty rigorous about my brain. But, like, I realized that a lot of, there was a lot of worry. But I don't think it was, I don't think it was genuine concern i think they were more nervous for themselves than they were for me so it was just a transfer of yeah

they're kind of like you think or i mean i i know i i genuinely worry for my kid yeah it's not about me necessarily why did i just think like uh i think that the thought is is like that would be awful if that happened to the kid yeah right and and and like i don't like you know you get this fear they have their own fear about what's going to happen to you yeah and they make things up in their head yeah exactly it's like the character in the show yeah uh sarah uh what uh jones's character yeah yeah yeah right jones yeah sarah jones yeah yeah She's worried about her kid all the time. She's imagining things happening to him. Yeah, yeah.

And then you react to it. But it's a form also of, yeah, exactly. And I think she is like that also because she's, you know, she's trying to find herself, you know, also. Right. She's also a liar. She's a professor. Yeah, she's a liar.

But she's happier when she lies than when she doesn't lie. And she's not very good at lying. I tell you, man, I cannot like watching that show. I was like with your husband. I was like, why are you staying with this guy? He's like nothing. He wasn't even charming until the last episode. She's trying really hard to make things work.

And sometimes I find I've seen it very often. I mean, I'm like that. I will try to make things work. No matter what. No matter what. Until suddenly there's a breaking deal kind of thing. And then it all goes away. But it's with friends.

I mean, it's not just relationship. It's all relationship, even work. You know, I will try till the end to make things work with someone, even with work. Until you reach a level where I'm like, that's it. Never again. Done. You know, and then it's it, never again, done. And then it's done for good. And then it's really done. It's really done because it reached the limit 20 times.

But I will get to, like I'm very, I'm like, I forgive, I forgive, I forgive. But I thought it's an interesting quality for a woman also to be trying and trying and accepting and accepting and being punched and punched and punched until she has to, you know trying and trying and accepting and accepting and being punched and punched and punched until she has to you know but he she's at the end of her rope yeah yeah it's not like because you can't be denied attention you can't be mad at her for doing it i mean no no you're not mad at her like that that guy's uh he's unbearable unbearable it was fun he's good

though he's good at being unbearable that actor do you know that guy pretty well i mean yeah yeah i know he's a friend oh yeah matthieu demi yeah so you know i'm from france uh yes we met in france but we mostly hang out here he moved to la oh he did too yeah okay so all right so with the wendy did when is the first um is before sunset the first, is Before Sunset the first big movie? Sunrise. Before Sunrise? No, no, I'm talking about the one you wrote. Oh, yeah, yeah.

Well, Before Sunrise I wrote too, but we didn't get credited, Ethan and I. We wrote Before Sunrise. Because of what you were improvising? No, it's not that. It's because we didn't sign on at being writers from the start. So when we were hired to go to the set, we ended up changing all of it. It was not a rewrite.

It was, you know, we threw away everything and we wrote a new film with a few, maybe five leftover dialogue of the original. And Linklater just let you do that? He wanted us to do that. He hired us to do that. And then I think the guild, I mean, they couldn't, whatever. Who knows what happened.

Who wrote the original story? Richard and another lady. Oh, okay. But basically the final script with the original script is almost, there's maybe two, I mean, for my character, there's maybe four lines left over. Is that because you and Ethan had to define the relationship for yourselves that would compel you? I think quickly Richard realized that the original screenplay was quite talky and there was almost no romance. It wasn't very romantic. Okay.

First of all, they would separate. And it's a romantic movie. Yeah, it's very romantic. And I think he realized that Ethan and I would bring all that writing of romance. And I wrote a lot of stuff about how I felt as a young woman. And I was very romantic. Yeah. You know.

Is that gone? Did you get rid of that? It's not the same anymore. You know, like you kind of, you know, and it's beautiful for the time. I mean, I love that film. People love it. They love all of them. It's not the same anymore. You know, like you're kind of, you know, and it's beautiful for the time. I mean, I love that film. People love it. They love all of them. It's very romantic.

And I'm happy I was romantic in my 20s and that I'm not as romantic. I mean, I am romantic, but I'm also practical now. So it's a different kind of romantic idea. I mean, as we get older, you've got to temper your romance to something a little more practical. Yeah. Also to not get completely crushed every time something doesn't work out right. I mean, it's like you don't want to be like, if you're romantic like you're in your 20s, you won't survive. I mean, it'll kill you.

Yeah. So, you know, it's better to be a little more in the real world. But it was very romantic, you know, beautiful romantic ideas. So I wrote them all in the film. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's what, it was a huge success. And Ethan as well. Yeah.

And we were both the age of the character. So it was more, we were more in tune with this romance than Richard was in his 30s. You know what I mean? Like we were in our 20s. Are you guys still friends? You and Ethan? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, of course. Well, we did two more filmss. You know what I mean? Like, we were in our 20s. Are you guys still friends, you and Ethan? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, of course. Well, we did two more films together. I know, I know, but I just, I don't know. I always assume people... We're not friends.

You know, we've never been super close friends. Right. Because in the end, we just communicate during the time that we need to do those films. I think that's what happens with movies. It's like, and I always learn this over and over again, and even from my own experience in doing movies. It's just, and I always learn this over and over again and even from my own experience in doing movies.

It's just, you know, when you see somebody establish something like, you know, three movies on screen, there's part of you that wants to believe that, well, they must, you know,

really love each other or whatever, but yeah, no, it's just a job and, you know, you do the work and then... I know,

and people ask me if I'm not, why am I not married to Ethan? And I'm like, why would I marry Ethan? My God. It's like, the last person on earth I would marry probably Ethan? And I'm like, why would I marry Ethan? My God. It's like, the last person on earth I would marry probably. Wow.

No, no, but I mean, you know what I mean. It's like, I knew him inside out. I don't want to be married to Ethan. Yeah, right, sure. Spend a lot of time together. Yeah, that's enough. At many different ages. Yeah, exactly.

Through divorces and this and that. 30 years, it's enough. That's crazy. Yeah, it's almost 30, yeah. Well, how did that evolve into like a three-part thing? That wasn't the intention, was it? So originally, no, the original screenplay had a very strict end, which was that they would part and never see each other again.

That was Richard's original screenplay. And when I was involved, I said, listen, I'm not the kind of person that would have sex with someone if I didn't. That's how I was at the time. It's okay to be that way. No, no. But I mean, you know, I was a romantic person and I say, I'm not going to be with this guy unless I know there is a possibility of seeing him again. Yeah.

So it has to be open at the end. It has to be an open ending. Yeah. Also, I've always liked open endings. Like I finished my show with something open. I've always liked the possibility of open ending. Yeah. Also, I've always liked open endings. Like I finish my show with something open. I've always liked the possibility of something else. Yeah. You know, so I said, let's make it that they meet again.

And we didn't want to exchange for a number because it seemed silly, you know, kind of like too down to earth in a way. All right. Let's make it a romantic idea of meeting again six months later. You know, so it kind of left the door open for a sequel in a way and uh and then when eventually we were like you know a lot of people are saying why don't why don't we have a sequel because it is open and then people loved it did you find it was mostly women no men too oh yeah a lot of people got married because of that movie yeah i know it's really strange we meet a lot of people. Sweet. Really?

I'm responsible for a bunch of babies out there. Oh, that's nice. It's cute, right? Yeah. Pretty cute. So when the sequel comes, so I guess Richard was like, well, you're going to write it this I should be the godmother of all those babies. Yeah, you are secretly.

Just claim it. Ethan and I are. Yeah. So when the first sequel comes around, Richard just said, you're writing this then, right? Well, yeah, this time it was obvious. I mean, I was not so happy it was not being credited. So was Ethan. You know, we were a little bit.

You were both mad. Well, there's a good reason to be. I mean, if it had been in the Writers Guild's hand, there would be no question that it had been writers. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So this time we said, okay, listen, this time not the same. Because again, there was an attempt to present a screenplay and be like, oh, and we'll work on set. I'm like, no, no, no, not this time. Oh, you fought for it.

Yeah, not this time. And the same with Before Midnight. Yeah. Oh, well, Before Midnight, it was out of the question not to credit us. Because we're, you know, we're, we're, Ethan and I's writing is what those films are, you know,

so. And when you guys wrote together, did you sit there and write together? Yeah. Oh, okay.

Yeah, I mean, for Before Sunset, we did a lot, I send a lot of stuff like, yeah, I mean,

we did all sorts of ways of working, like the internet. but it was definitely connected. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And you're credited as a composer as well yes I wrote music for The Countess which is a period piece I made which is very weird movie

about a woman that used to bathe in young virgin's blood to stay young forever she was called Countess Bathory very gothic yeah

somehow people love it in France. It's like my number one film, but here no one liked it. You did everything. You wrote, directed, acted, and... Composed the music. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, because I come from classical music training. Right. So with clarinet, and I was playing in orchestras and stuff, so I write for orchestras. So you know how to do that. Yes. So you like to do it? It's very relaxing to write. The Countess is your biggest hit in France?

Not my biggest hit, but a lot of people think it's my best film. Really? And here, people don't like it at all. They don't even know it. Yeah, no, don't know it. What can you do? Wow. French people have different tastes.

Like my last film, My Zoe, people loved it in France. Here, not so much. How do you account for that? What is it? What is it about France? What do they like? I think because it's very unusual. It's not very mainstream.

And also, I think there's no good feeling. How do you call it? You know all those British movies that at the end you're like rooting for the hero. You know, like all those typical. So it's just existentially challenging? Well, it is very, very challenging. Yeah. Yeah, it is.

And people are like, it's so dark and the characters are unlikable. And, you know, that's the thing about the unlikable here. Right. In France, there's a sort of. They love unlikable characters. A cultural history. They have Marquis de Sade as a hero. So, you know, it's like not the most likable human being.

Well, I think that's interesting about, you know, countries that have real history. You know, when you really think about America, it's just a history of dreamers and possibility, whereas France has been through the shit. Yeah, and there's a darkness that's accepted you know i think that's why people like for remember i remember reading uber serbi junior the demon i don't know if you know that book it's one of my favorite book and uh people in france love it you know and i know that's something that's i mean some some directors started liking him but really it was you know i remember the french loved him from a long time you know and it's very dark i think people here know last exit to brooklyn you know right yeah but people

for example in love in france love and i love him too uh love uh bukovsky charles bukovsky of course yeah it's irreverent it's rude yeah it's you did okay here but not great but like you're great in france he's he's looked upon as a genius, and I believe he's a brilliant... He is a genius, but here he's a cult figure. There, he's like a celebrated man of letters. Yes, almost mainstream American author. Oh, interesting. Yeah, yeah.

Well, they have an intellectual tradition of... It's a different... Like, about darkness is different. You know, the sense of it's okay to be a certain way. I mean, I'm not saying France is perfect far from it there's a lot of things I hate about France but in terms of writers like you know Camus was like

you know The Stranger was a big book right? Yeah. And it's not a happy ending. No it's completely existential or even you know Sartre's writing Yeah so I guess France is used to it It's dark and open-ended. Yeah, dark.

Exactly. So that's where maybe you like the open-ended. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like that. It doesn't have to be dark. Maybe that's the French side of the show, maybe. It's that kind of like my show, it's kind of like... On the verge?

Yeah, it's not very dark, but maybe there is something... Well, I think what you're trying to straddle, how long have you been working on that show, on the new show, On the Verge? You know, truly, I wrote on, I worked on the pilot for many years, and actually the pilot is my least favorite episode. Weirdly enough, I should have

just kept it as the first draft that I had. You know, I hate when I start to rewrite and take notes from 20 different studios, and then it becomes... Actually, the pilot is probably the least interesting thing because, you know, I got too many notes, you know, and then it becomes. They're all worried about, you know, setting up these characters. And it becomes nothing. I mean, to me, the pilot is OK. But, you know, I think the show is better than the pilot you made it with Netflix so Netflix is the studio

yeah well it's Canal Plus actually it was French okay financing and then Netflix acquired it it's not an original Netflix how's it doing in France?

it's okay it's doing well did you get press? very good press in France? yes I mean people like me in France I know

they hate me here but they like me in France no they don't hate me here but you know it's more of a, you know. Did you shoot during COVID? Yes, in the middle of it. So you did half of it during COVID with protocols? All of it during COVID with protocols.

You shot all of it during COVID? During COVID, yeah. In August, we started August 31st and finished November right before it went up. It was in a dip of, and we didn't have one case of COVID. That's good. Yeah, we were lucky. So you're doing the tested every other day kind of thing? Every other day.

Yeah, yeah. We were all wearing masks. No one could hang out. No one could have lunch together. Yeah. Wow. It was not easy. Not easy.

No, I know. I shot a movie during, it was only two weeks though. Oh, you shot a movie. Oh, yeah, yeah. You shot a movie. How was only two weeks though oh you shot a movie oh yeah yeah you shot a movie how was that in peak covid it was you know you were so excited to be out that's exactly how we felt yeah and that you know like i i was really nervous but my management somehow convinced me that it was probably safer to be on the set than to go to ralph's and they're right yeah everyone was super tested. Yeah, all the time.

And you know what's fun was that everyone in the world was wearing a mask and then we would take out our mask, hang out, laugh, kiss, hug, as if we were in the real world. We were the only one in this bubble of other reality that didn't exist for anyone else. It was kind of great.

And also, like, your ability to focus on the work is tenfold i mean because you're just sitting you're literally you can't even there's nothing you can't go hang around craft services so you're just waiting god just waiting to work to work yeah yeah yeah the focus i really i wouldn't say and you know you had minimal people on set you couldn't have everyone just hanging out yeah set yeah which i mean listen it's nice to have everyone on set you know eating everyone just hanging out yeah on set yeah which i mean listen it's nice to have everyone on set you know eating while you're doing an emotional scene or whatever or a sex scene and you have like half the crew you know no sex scene now they don't allow people but whatever we don't have really sex scenes in on this show but you know i don't know why actually

it says nudity on the thing because i don't think there's any nudity in my show or i i'm so just the one girl at the party show at the. At the party, that's it. Like one pair of tits. Yeah, I think that's it. But that's enough for nudity. I don't know. Or maybe it's because, you know, in the credits, you see, actually, it's me.

You see a pregnant woman and you see the breast and maybe that's enough to make it, you know, like nudity. Yeah, maybe, sure. That would be really not good. So you had this pilot, you've been working on the pilot a long time. I've been working on the pilot a long time. I've been working on the pilot a long time. Now, did you write with other people?

Was there a room? Or did you just knock it out with one other person? No, we didn't have a room. We didn't have the money for a room because it's Canal+. And it was all scale. What is Canal+. Canal+, is a French channel that finance most TV shows in France and most films. It's actually the reason why we have films in France,

is Cannes Unplussed. But, so, yeah, so I was working on the screenplay for a while. Of course, it went from me being 44 to me being 50. So the kid went from being 5 to being, you know, 12 years old. Yeah. Because suddenly my, obviously... I mean, it took you that long to write it not to

write it to get money for it oh i wish it took i know it's really about the so it's been hanging around yeah yeah it's been like you know yes and no's and yeah one place then another then i took it back from one place and went to another place and then It's not easy. It was not an easy one. And you had just the pilot? Yeah. And so once you got the deal, you... I developed the 12 other episodes afterwards. And then that was fun, that part, even though it was a lot of work. And I did it only with Alexia Lando,

my co-writer, who plays Elle in the show. Elle. Elle is the lady with three kids. Oh, she's good. Where'd she come from? She's an actress. She was in my films, Two Days in Paris, Two Days in New York.

She played my sister. Oh, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. She's French. Actually, she's American and Israeli, but she was raised partly in France, so she speaks fluent French. Yeah, I like her kookiness. Yeah, she's very good.

Yeah. She was very funny. Has she done a lot of acting? Yes. I mean, she has done, she worked with Zoe Casavetes on her film or short film or a feature. Yeah, I feel like I've seen her before. Zoe Casavetes movie?

Yeah. I wonder which one. But she was also in Two Days in Paris, Two Days in Paris. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Now I remember. Yeah, she played my sister. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember.

And your parents were in those too, right? Yep. Yeah. And Adam Goldberg. And Adam Goldberg in the first one and then Chris Rock in the second. I kind of know Adam a little bit.

I changed boyfriend between the two. Do you and Adam get along? Yeah, we did for a while and I don't know. I don't know. I don't know if we still get along.

I haven't seen him in a while. I don't know if he liked the film when he saw Two Days in Paris. I think he was upset at me. Oh, really? I don't know. I cut a bit that he did

and, you know, I don't know. I don't know what happened. He was upset at me after the film. We're I cut a bit that he did and you know I don't know I don't know what happened he was upset at me after he's got two cute kids now I know I'm happy for him yeah yeah I'm very I have all only good good things to say about Adam he's a fantastic actor he is isn't he yeah he's great and Elizabeth Shue like how did that happen I feel like I haven't seen her in decades well you know it's like, she's a wonderful actress. I know. And sometimes, you know, people, you know,

don't work. I mean, also, I think, you know, when you're offered, you know, I mean, I see movies sometimes, even good films. And then I look at the woman character,

the 50-year-old woman character, and it's so underwritten that it's, you know, you don't want to, who wants to play that part, you know? i mean i think that's true of a lot of roles like yeah even for guys i mean truly everything is so one dimension yeah sometimes yeah but you know it's because people are used to they want characters to be likable yeah from the start you know i have this issue in my show sometimes it's like people say, the first and second episode, they're not really likable character.

I'm like, so what? I know. Like, I grew up loving, you know, is King of Comedy any of the character likable? Yeah. They're fucking all crazy. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, they should be all, I mean, even the hero that's supposed to be like, I mean, the Jerry Lewis character is unbearable, even worse than the other ones.

I mean, and those are my favorite films growing up. You know, it's not. Yeah. Oh, he's like, I don't know what that is. That's a Hollywood thing. It's unbearable. I mean, truly, I can't. I personally, I'm like, I don't get it.

You know, I love films. Do you think it's uniquely American? You know, I think there is a side. I don't think it's uniquely american i think it's it's uh it's it's the times it's also executives panicking like i don't i don't know that like you know you can't really look to executives to have some depth of understanding about what you're trying but you know why they're panicking because being in la for 20 whatever years yeah i've noticed that there's always someone above them yeah and they're

always scared of that person above them no matter how high they are that's right it's just about having someone to blame exactly and they're always scared to be the one yes right right so people act out of fear yeah in this country and they're scared and even critics sometimes will say oh you know because they have something above them that say why did you like this you know right or why do you you know they i think they're they're people are it it's it's a tough world out there yeah and like well fortunately as time goes on nothing fucking matters anymore and uh you know there's so much out there that like how do you even determine like which critic it's all it's everything's's like an algorithm or amalgamation. Even Rotten Tomatoes, that's based on 100 critics or however many.

It's a very odd thing we're living in. Actually, six sometimes. Yeah. And it's like, who cares? Exactly. But people go to that thing. I know. But then in the end, it's the people watching are what matters.

Sure. You know, and and eventually people get to see things. And, you know, that's Netflix get behind it. Did they you know, did they know? No, no, because it's not a Netflix original. So they don't spend a cent on publicity. Sort of there. Yeah.

And if it's I mean, they threw it on the wall. If it sticks, it sticks, you know, and it did, it's doing well, you know, it was like number 10, you know, a part of the 10, 10 top for a while. And, you know, and it's, people are still watching. So I'm lucky. You know, it's almost like I'm lucky. I mean, I can't say anything else because publicity wise, there's nothing. Yeah. How many did you direct? Five. Oh, that's good. And Mathieu, the guy playing my husband, directed four. Oh, wow. And another director, David Petrarca, directed three. And I have to say, I think I did okay on the first three, but I think the screenplays were still, you know, but I did better on 11 and 12 than I did on one, two, three. But, you know, it's like you can't. You're hard on yourself? you know it's like you can't you're

hard on yourself no it's not that it's i know when i'm doing a good job and when i'm not as good you know and it's hard to direct when you're in it yeah and when you're shooting in covid time and you have so many limitations on the dp yeah no everything i mean yeah dp and also you should eight pages a day on this kind of show i know know. It's crazy, right? How many pages did you do like on the movie? Yeah. On my show, we used to shoot when I was doing Glow for Netflix. Well, that was hard. There was a big thing.

But like, how many did we do? Like when I was doing my show for IFC, we do eight, ten page days. It's crazy. It's the same. It's a lot. Oh, yeah. It's nuts. It's hard.

It's hard to, I mean, I was pushing to do as many takes as possible because I really believe the more takes, the more choice you have for editing later. Yeah. But it is tough to do eight to ten pages. But did you feel like, did you get, like, were you satisfied with the experience as a director? It must have been like, it seems like. Yeah, there were times where I was really happy and times where I was frustrated because I didn't have enough time, obviously, when you have eight pages per day. But was it better than an experience of shooting a movie? No, because you have more time on movies.

Yeah. I mean, on movies in France, you do three and a half page a day. Oh, really? So you really have the luxury. To work it. Yeah. And also you have less hours per day. So you're kind of like, you know, relaxing a little bit, having long lunch.

Oh, that's nice. It's kind of a holiday to shoot movies in France. And the producer I work with in France, he always picks the best canteen, the best food, because he loves food. Oh, that's great. So we're on the same page and he hires the top food person. Are you a good cook? I'm a great cook. And that's why you made yourself a chef?

Well, I did relate to being a chef, yeah. Or to cook was love, to give love through food, you know, something. I do, like, I feed people, you know. My kid, I always make an effort to make him happy with my food. Is it mostly French?

No, no, not at all. I make Italian, my mom was Italian. I make Italian. My mom was Italian. I make really good Mexican food. I make, I know it sounds weird. I make great Mexican food. Oh, yeah. No, it's good. I've learned to make.

I make, you know, from the Réunion Island, I make Vietnamese food. I make Japanese food. So you love to cook. I love to cook. And also ethnic, all sorts of Indian curries. I find it very kind of uh you cook too right i do but i don't like i'm afraid of food so like i i limit myself like i would never make pasta really once or twice i'll make it because you're scared of food because of gaining

weight yeah yeah yeah i know that um i mean i've heard you talk about you don't have that fear uh no i i just can't wait i mean i have the, but I think my love of food is sometimes stronger than, you know, my fear. I'd like to understand French cooking more. I know that's sort of the foundation of so much, but there's too much. Like I do pot au feu, which is that meat cooked for hours and stuff with vegetables, but there's no butter involved. Like I avoid the butter, cooked butter. I can't deal with it. It's too much. It's hard to digest.

It's unbearable. It's heavy, right? Yeah. No, I try to cook healthy stuff because I know otherwise I'll look like my father in no time. Without the beard, which you can't hide the you know the double chin right he's lucky he can hide it with the beard the big beard so you said that like you've seen like you've had the experience that having a kid is has eased your anger a bit yeah yeah it has i mean it i'm still

i still get angry but it's always it's never about him. It's always about injustice or business shit. No shortage of that. Yes. And also, I get angry sometimes at how the business works. But I don't express my... I don't snap at people. I might have in the past. But now I don't do that. Like I don't snap.

I don't get angry at people. If I get angry, it's that people way above me. You know, it's for example, I never get angry at people that work for me. You know, unless there's a big injustice being done and I'm being wrongly treated for the wrong reasons, some kind of frustration. Righteous anger. But in general, you're not angry as much as you used to be. And I guess having a kid, you definitely tap into a love that you didn't know you had.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Which is great. Yeah. I love him unconditionally. He's like the best thing in the world. And sometimes I get, you know, he does things that are not right. Right.

Sure. And I tell him to stop or whatever yeah i mean you have to set limits even though he steps on me all day long on my head and do whatever he wants of me i mean he's he knows how to manipulate me any way is possible and what about that is extremely smart so it's complicated the dad well the dad is is gone um he's there but no he's not gone uh he's he's he's not part of my life oh uh but he is part of my life that's right yeah i'm separated but you're married i'm remarried yeah i'm remarried and that's that's good because he has a great relationship with his stepdad oh

that's good yeah but and the other dad you deal with because Well, you know, it's the minutia of, you know. Yeah, of being divorced. Yeah, of child custody. Yes. All the joy. The joy of sharing a child. I have no kids. And I don't know any of this stuff.

But that guy's here? Yeah. Oh, okay. No, no, so it's good. We're not too far away. All right. You deal with this. Yeah, it's like the everyday.

You get used to it. Right. At first, it's like traumatic. And then eventually far away. All right. You deal with this. Yeah. It's like the everyday. You get used to it. Right. At first, it's traumatic, and then eventually- Yeah, eventually, you do it for the kids. Yeah, exactly. So what's the plan now? What are you waiting to hear if you're going to get another season? Yeah, waiting to hear, but I never wait to hear because I don't like that position,

and I've been in that position as an actress. So you did it. I wait to hear. So I wrote a new script to do in France. A movie? A really fun movie to do with my dad a french film oh that's great that i'm planning on i'm i'm i'm writing an american film uh about a drama uh about a guy that i met in um his story is pretty insane a guy i met at um when i was like living off uh my storage because I was fixing my house. I met this guy that was basically spending a lot of time there.

At the storage? Yeah. I discussed his life and I told him I was going to write a film about him. He's like, fine. He lived at the storage place? Well, not living, but it was a difficult life he was going through. In my show, I lived in a storage unit for a little while. Really?

Yeah. In it? Well, he was not living in it. I don't think you can do that anymore you're not supposed to yeah no i know it's funny but it's uh yeah it's it's a different life so i just was like talking to him and it was really inspiring story and um so i'm writing something about him i have a film that i have with amelia clark that i wrote about the beginning of Hollywood, the pioneer of Hollywood. Really? Yeah. The very early days, like 1910.

Yeah. Wow. So you had to research all that? Yeah. For many years. Yeah. Oh, so it's about the original Jews? Actually, well, some, not all, but like a lot of them and uh and uh but also um you know how the the movie

business was in you know in um in new york in new jersey the studios in new jersey right yeah exactly and everything fell apart because i'm some crazy winter and they realize we can't keep on having the industry yeah and then they came out did you read empire of their own no i haven't read that okay is that what it's about well no it's just about the those those jews that that made the business oh that made the business yeah and that they kind of they built a vision of america that kind of stuck yeah they invented a lot of things i know i know of that book but i haven't read yeah i know of that book actually i think the producer gave it to me and i read part of it yeah i remember but it's been it's been a while that i'm trying to get this film made.

What's the focus of the film? Who's the main character? It's a family of vaudeville actors that decide to make a film and to move to Hollywood. And they're struggling. The truth is it has a little bit, in essence, about my family a little bit of struggling. Yeah, yeah, sure. People struggling to survive in this business and and the children i mean there's more children than my life which was i was an only child but

yeah but there's a vibe to it which i find very a family of vaudevillians i always like that yeah so they they become yeah it's very sweet it's actually great for kids also i think it's a bit of a kids movie there's a dark side to it. But you got a lot of things. Yeah, because I don't wait for things because I hate that business in the sense that I hate when things don't work out. So I have a million things happening at once. So you're not interested in, you're only going to act in things you're making. No, I love acting in other things.

I did a film with Todd Solons. I really enjoyed working with him, for example. Okay. Because it was really good dialogue. I would act in films that I really like. Okay. You know? Yeah.

And I can do it because I'm doing other things, which is ideal. I mean, you do your own stuff. So, you know, I mean, above all, right? Yeah. I mean, I just started really acting in the last few years i think you know taking it seriously but uh but yeah i don't do anything i don't want to do yeah no exactly right i don't but that's kind of i know it's a luxury but it also comes with a price which is sometimes you know not always yeah eventually people are they're going to be like

well he doesn't want to do anything yeah well. Well, when you're a woman director, I can tell you if you're an actress as well, like I am. It's complicated because people think, you know, I'm complicated. You know, I've worked on a film like a couple of years ago and the guy was constantly telling me, you're so easy. And I'm like, yeah, what were you expecting that I was going to direct your film and bug everybody i mean like on the contrary actually if anything the fact that i do my own stuff when i do someone else's thing yeah i'm sort of compliant to you know whatever they want right because it's yeah yeah you know it's kind of relaxing on the you know and i want to have nothing to do with directing when i'm you know i always writing that's happens to me when i'm on sets where I see, like, I have to bite my tongue.

Like, if you're paying attention to everything and you're just the actor, it's sort of like, I'm not going to fucking say anything. Yeah. I mean, it's like, it's not my job. I know. But don't you? Isn't it? It makes sense, right? No, it's good, but I do fight it.

Oh, you fight it? Yeah, because sometimes I want to step in and be like, don't you think we, you know, but I'm like, no. It's not. Let them all do their jobs yeah i mean when i see their struggle if i see someone struggling with the scene yeah you know and it's happened to me a couple of times well i'm not i will suggest something maybe right but suggest as like what about yeah what if we try it this way you know if something doesn't work in a scene, I feel like it's my duty, but also as an actress to help out with bringing. I mean, I've done it even with people like Kieslowski. We were doing a scene and he was like, I can't figure it out and stuff.

And I was like, why don't you let me try something that comes naturally to me and tell me if it works. And that's Kieslowski. I mean, you know, and I did the scene. I did something and basically he was happy with it you know that's great he was like why didn't you come why didn't you tell me earlier we've been struggling for two hours you know and i was like i didn't want to infringe on your well yeah as an actor you know to to suggest choices and stuff but sometimes i'm just you know like i don't like, you know, because there's so much going on on a set. Yeah.

You know, and a lot of times they're on top of things that I'm getting obsessed with and it's not going to matter ultimately. So I don't want to step in and be like, you know, don't you think we should move that chair? You know, like in that kind of shit. It's like, we're not shooting that right now. I'm like, all right, all right. My brain just gets all involved with everything and I should just like, no. No. No. No.

It's funny that you fight it. Because for me, I don't even look at it like this. I try to stay out of it. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I'm learning, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're learning. Yeah, I am.

I was like, yeah, yeah, you're learning. I am. I am. I got to learn. We're all learning. We're all learning. That was fun. Fun.

Thank you. You feel good about it? Yeah. I mean, did I say anything offensive? No. Sometimes I do without knowing, so I don't know what's offensive. Do you want to before we go? No.

Say something really offensive. No. Sometimes I say offensive things without knowing, so I'm just being careful nowadays. Sure. I don't think so. Offensive. Not really offensive, but sometimes I even offend

like my own woman, whatever situation or whatever. No, I think you're right. And my producer is very meticulous and very intelligent. So they will pick on the... Yeah, he'll take it. Okay, great.

Nice talking to you. Thank you. That was Julie Delpy. Wasn't that fun? That was fun. I enjoyed it. I like her. We're friends now.

That's how that goes. On the Verge, the show is now streaming on Netflix. I'm going to play guitar now, and it wasn't until after I recorded it that I realized that the Fender Champ I was playing through has a fucked-up speaker. So this will be the last time you hear this very specific, very honest tone. Thank you. Boomer lives. Monkey and La Fonda.

Cat angels everywhere, man. We'll see you next time. Moose? No. But moose head? Yes. Because that's alcohol and we deliver that too. Along with your favorite restaurant food, groceries and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by

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