WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1274 - Jennifer Lee Pryor

Episode Date: October 28, 2021

Jennifer Lee Pryor was there for Richard Pryor's highest highs and his lowest lows. She experienced so much with Richard that she married him twice. Jennifer and Marc talk about the brilliant, complicated, visionary, frustrating man that was Richard Pryor and how Jennifer became the guardian of his legacy, culminating with a new career-spanning box set. They also talk about Jennifer's time as a ‘70s wild child, making her way through show biz on both coasts. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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To show your true heart is to risk your life. When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive. FX's Shogun, a new original series streaming February 27th, exclusively on Disney+. 18-plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. Lock the gate! all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fuck nicks what's happening i'm mark maron this is my podcast welcome to it how's it going? I feel like I am strained. I am weak. I'm a bit, uh, it's not tired. I feel a weight on my cells because, um, I got my booster. I got boosted yesterday. I got boosted. I'm going out five nights a week, standing in front of hundreds of people, some masked,

some unmasked. I'm not wearing a mask. I think that counts as being a relatively high risk situation, but I'm out in the world. I'm doing the work. So I got my booster and I don't feel good. I do not feel good, but I feel like I did the right thing. I feel like now I'm set. I got the flu vaccine a couple of weeks ago. I am fucking loaded. I am loaded. I've had the shingles vaccine. My cells are just, they're ready.

They have a point of reference for most things that'll come through. And they'll be like, nope, no can do. We're not going to let you run with that. Sorry. Yeah, we've got all the genetic information we need on you, and you can just move on through the body. Go for it. Today on the show, I have a nice, long conversation with Jennifer Lee Pryor. She's the widow of Richard Pryor, who she married twice.

She's the widow of Richard Pryor, who she married twice. She's also an actor, a writer, producer, and she's just worked with the Time Life people to curate a new career-spanning box set of Richard Pryor's work. And going into this, I don't know anything about anybody really. You don't know anything about anybody really until you meet them or sit with them or talk to them or engage with them for a period of time. You make assumptions. And I really didn't know anything about her other than she married Richard twice. And I didn't know what that was about. I guess I knew that she was in charge of the estate because she put this thing out, but I just didn't have any sense of who she was. And it's easy, I think, for us to judge the wives of famous people or the wives that end up with the estates. It's easy to

put them in a box or diminish them or whatever it is, it's not good what I was presupposing or judging or assumed. So when I met Jennifer, it was like amazing. I mean, we went through her life. She was in Hollywood in the 70s and the acting and where she came from and what she was up to, globe trotting, modeling, doing the acting, hanging out with big directors, big stars. It was the 70s, man. But the bottom line is, is that the reason it was such a great conversation is that she was with richard at the highest point that he had she was with richard when he created and performed

that first live in concert movie which changed my life and also you know put him on the map i would assume globally but certainly it was a big crossover thing. That was the defining special of, in terms of my influences around standup for me, but just in terms of him. And she was there through the development and shooting of that, and then onward through his suicide attempt when he set himself on fire. And then she kind of gets pushed out and brought back in again at the end of his life when he's battling ms and to talk to somebody who was around for both of those things and or just around richard at that time where you know that was the peak and after that it was it was sort of a very slow but defined decline. And the insight that she had about him and her experience with him, but also like herself and what she went through with him.

It was much more exciting and interesting than I was prepared for. And I really liked her. And it was just great. It was great talking to her. And the box that's fucking amazing i um i went to a wilco show last night and a couple of things were revealed to me you know it's like i don't know about this grief business you guys i don't you know obviously we've been all going through it and and uh and you know my

story but but it was weird it was it was one of those events where I was standing there at this thing out with people and I realized like in in a moment there that I made it through but Lynn Shelton did not make it through. She should have been here. She should have been there. She should have been at the show enjoying the music. She didn't make it through. And there was a moment

where it was sort of leveling that void. But I'm starting to realize, because I ran into another guy, I ran into Mike O'Brien, who's a writer, AP Bio, and he used to write for SNL, but he wrote Sword of Trust,

the story with Lynn. And I saw him and he was right there. And I went up to him, I hadn't seen him since the pandemic. And I just said, look, it's sad, man. She should be here. And he's like, yeah, it's terrible and I it is terrible and I almost felt like bawling in front of him because of his connection with her they were friends and they wrote together but but I

was kind of keeping it all inside but I realized that I have a profound depth of anger, really, and why wouldn't I, about not being able to have the life that was going to happen. Fury, anger that can go nowhere. What do you do with that? I mean, yeah, life is not fair. People die. Tragedy happens. do you do with that i mean yeah life is not fair people die tragedy happens that's it that's the nature of it there's no way to put that anger you shake your fist at the sky but it's real it's real i know tweedy's a pretty sweet presence and has a lot of heart up there and you know he said a few words and there was a vulnerability to the whole goddamn thing just see the the gratitude that he had for people coming out for his crew for you know not having gotten sick any of them and you

know just the nature of what was going on with everyone in masks and how bizarre it was but we're doing it we're doing what humans do we're're doing what humans do when they are together. They are rejoicing. They are doing a community crowd experience thing. And it's new again. So I felt carried by the vulnerability of that particular band in that particular moment. But God damn it, man. God damn it. The absence. The absence.

So, Richard Pryor. You know, as everything kind of flies into the rear view mirror, as everything is in the rear view mirror. The rear view mirror, oddly, is everything all the time. The rear view mirror is always present. There is no context. There is no history when you look into the rear view mirror that is your computer or whatever you're looking into to pull up whatever it is you want in that moment from any period in time in the history of time, in the history of pictures time in the history of time in the history of pictures in the history of whatever has been documented or made into content which is almost everything that rear view mirror you can really get lost in it but for me and i've been thinking

a lot about this not about nostalgia about you know what i'm made of and where i come from and man do i remember going to that late night showing of richard pryor live in concert when i was in high school with my buddy dave dave bishop rip and i don't remember it was a midnight movie or just a late one but man we went in there not knowing what to expect and jesus, man, just laughed and laughed and laughed hard at the movie. It was amazing. I must have been 15. I'd never experienced anything like that. And it changed my life.

It was the most amazing thing I ever saw, comedically speaking. And looking back on it, as you grow with the genius, the work of somebody else, and you watch that thing. I probably watch it once a year. And as I began doing comedy, and you can only aspire to a certain thing. And if people ask me, I'll say Richard's the best. And I believe that he's the best. And the reason I always give is not unlike many other people that give the same reason is that the humanity of prior, the vulnerability of prior, the the risk, the emotional risks he would take to talk about the darkest shit that he went through, bringing himself up there, you know, which is my guiding light. light you know i don't know if i learned it from him but that me i would have to assume i did you bring yourself up there in all of your fucking darkness in all of your foibles in all of your

insanity you bring it up there bring yourself up there what is that story what do you put it on the line man and he lived uh you know a life that i believe became exhausting and dangerous because of that because of his vulnerability and because of his volatility but i do remember years later when i was at the comedy store in the late 80s working the door and richard was trying to, he was coming around a bit to work out some stuff. And just to see him in the flesh, I just remember like watching him walk down the hall with Mitzi smoking a cigarette. And just, you could feel it, man. The weird frenetic vulnerability and the fucking humanity of the guy the beaten humanity the guy who destroyed himself in almost every way and and and and would kind of crawl back

each time just to walk behind him in that hallway, smell his cigarette smoke, and watch him go upstairs and sit with Mitzi in the belly room they were sitting. But I did remember, and I've told this story before, watching him on stage try out some shit. He hadn't been on stage in, I don't think, years. And he had a hard time. Because he was pure Richard. And people didn't give him the respect he deserved when he went up there, but it was all there.

Like, you know, his sensitivity, his vulnerability, and probably his fear, because he was the guy that said that. Many people have said it one way or the other, but he said the only enemy of creativity is fear. So I have to imagine that there was some fear there but he he was very visceral very human very present but not in a cocky way not a swaggering

way he put his heart on the fucking line up there always and i also saw him years later when he was in the wheelchair for a minute. Boy, illness and death and aging is difficult. But he went up there in that condition, that fragile, near death, to show himself in that way. That was who he was then. I'm going to bring myself up here, fragile, in a wheelchair, dying, and put my heart on the fucking line. That's a fucking artist, man. Okay, so as I mentioned earlier jennifer lee prior is uh the widow of richard prior uh she married him twice

once in the 70s and once in the the aughts uh she was with him when he passed away which i oddly didn't talk about that moment i don't i guess it got caught up or maybe i'm just i don't know i think it's a death thing i don't know i'm having a hard time with it time life just put out this uh ultimate richard pryor collection uncensored it's got all four of his live concert films, all episodes of The Richard Pryor Show, his feature film, Jojo Dancer, Your Life is Calling, two documentaries, plus hours of stand-up, late-night appearances and interviews.

It's all of it. It is all of it. And it's an amazing box set, and this was an amazing conversation for me. I really enjoyed talking to Jennifer Lee. be spending more than you need. That's why you need to switch to low-cost coverage from Zensurance before your policy renews this year. Zensurance does all the heavy lifting to find a policy, covering only what you need, and policies start at only $19 per month. So if your policy is renewing soon, go to Zensurance and fill out a quote. Zensurance, mind your business.

Death is in our air. This year's most anticipated series, FX's Shogun, only on Disney+. We live and we die. We control nothing beyond that. An epic saga based on the global best-selling novel by James Clavel. To show your true heart is to risk your life. When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive. FX's Shogun, a new original series

streaming February 27th exclusively on Disney+. 18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. What brought you out here? Where are you from? You sound like you're from New York. I'm from upstate New York originally. Oh, okay. Years in New York. Went to Finch College. Dropped out.

Started working for Canon Films. With the Gobelon and Globus? Yes. What was it? Before it was Globus. Globus and Globus. Yeah, Globus and Globus. Yeah.

He recently died, by the way. All right. So you're in upstate New York. It's what, the 70s? Well, no. Upstate. I moved to New York. New York City.

I went to Finch College in 69 and left after one year. What is Finch College? Finch College, Tricia Nixon went there as a senior. It's the college where rich girls can get into when their grades suck. So you come from the fancy family? Well, I come from privilege. You do? And my dad made a little endowment, and I got in.

Oh, really? Yeah. Because my grades were sucked. What's the background? What do you mean? Dad, a lawyer. Oh, yeah. A lawyer.

Worked for Governor Harriman. Very well-known lawyer. Yeah, yeah. Upstate New York. Brilliant, actually. Mother, mentally ill, but interesting as hell. Jewish family? No, Irish Catholic.

Irish Catholic. Irish Catholic, yeah. There you go. Tough. Blue blood on the crazy mother's side. Yeah, Irish Catholic on the dead. Tough. Yeah. It got confusing. Uh-huh. There you go. Tough. Blue blood on the crazy mother's side. Yeah. Irish Catholic on the dead. Tough. Yeah.

Yeah. It got confusing. It got complicated. Yeah. Especially with those martinis. Oh, yeah. Those 50s martinis. There you go.

And the mill towns. Booze all day. Start at lunch. Oh, yeah. Ride it out. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

And all night long. Oh, really? Oh, yeah. So big boozy family. Oh, big boozy. So you're wired for it. Yeah. Acquired insomnia at an early age. Oh, big boozy. So you're wired for it. Yeah, acquired insomnia at an early age.

From the parties? From the parties and the fisticuffs, yeah. Oh, really? Oh, yeah. Yeah, it was rock and roll. So, you know, ending up with Richard was kind of a fait accompli. Sure, yeah, familiar. Kind of. Yeah, so, all right, so you go to Finch and then you split?

I split and I started working at Canon and modeling. In New York? Yeah. Oh, so they were in New York originally. Yeah, they were. Yeah. So, all right. So you go to Finch and then you split? I split and I started working at Canon and modeling. In New York? Yeah. Oh, so they were in New York originally. Yeah, they were in New York. So before they become this. East 53rd Street. Yeah.

Wow. Interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What were they doing? Producing movies? The Friedlanders. Yeah. Producing kind of soft porn.

Yeah. And they did Joe with Peter Boyle. Oh, great movie. Yeah. What a sick fucking movie. Yeah, yeah. And so it was an interesting place to kind of land. Right.

And then from there, I left and worked for some independent films. I was behind the scenes. Yeah, I was PA. Yeah. Just, you know, doing what I could do. Yeah. You know, hustling. Yeah.

Yeah. And then I'm- It's the 70s. It's groovy. It's 70s, man. It's New York. Having fun? It's scrappy New York.

Having fun. Met Barry Berenson. Lived with her. Then started modeling, modeled for Halston. I was Dionne Furstenberg's first showroom model. Yeah. And just, you know, onwards. You know, beautiful young women did that.

Yeah, yeah, running around. Yeah, running around. But I was running with a certain crowd. I just met, you meet, in the early 70s, you could meet everybody. Right. I met Roman and Warren and Eric, you know. In New York? Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah. You know, having three sons is Warren. Yeah yeah that's what you did in the 70s that's what everyone did that's what everybody all the girls richard would say to me you had threesomes with roman and warren why don't you have a threesome with me i said richard it was early 70s you did it was recreational right you don't do it when you're in love right because it's like Lenny Bruce's bit you didn't have to like it that much right

exactly oh man but so like so you live in that life and this is before everyone was acknowledged as monsters exactly

oh yeah everyone was just fucking around we just brushed it off our shoulders you know and went on moved on

so when did you come out here so I started coming back and forth out here and decided I wanted to be an actress

and uh i went to sell adler in new york i studied with her and then how was that for you you know she was smart she said to me one day the best thing i ever was told by anybody she goes you have a problem i said what that's right you the problem is you're very beautiful and you don't know yet that you didn't earn it. I mean, the best line ever. Oh, yeah. That comes from a deep chip on the shoulder. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I know your type. Yeah. She's right. I was running with the princes. I'd say, I got to go. I got to go to London. You know, I'm hanging out with that Nankashogi. Wow.

And she'd say, you know, she pegged me. She looked at me and said, you're a party girl. So you knew all these fuckers. I knew everybody. Oh, man. Yeah. But I was looking for love. Yeah?

Oh, yeah. But I mean, like, what, did you find, did you, like, you know, look, I did my share of blow and I've been to enough parties. I mean, did you often feel that you were in the presence of evil or darkness? Or did you, were you more sort of like, well, I'm just having fun? It got dark a couple of times. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I knew how to make a quick exit. Right, right. And I was good at that. Because I always remember, you know, when you're high and you're at those certain situations, there's always a weirdness where like, where'd that guy come from? Yeah, I had that in London with Roman.

Roman could be squirrely, you know what I mean? Well, clearly. Yeah, I mean, you're not saying anything. Squirrely is diplomatic. Yeah, really had that in London with Roman. Roman could be squirrely, you know what I mean? Well, clearly. Squirrely is diplomatic. Yeah, really, really, really. Stayed at his muse house. And I met him right after the murders. Well, I guess that does a number on a person, too, obviously. I mean, how are you ever going to recover from that?

What the fuck is that going to do to your psyche? But he was dark. I was going to parties with him. is right after the murders yeah and um and i remember being at a party with him and we were in the kitchen and he picked up a knife and he said you know you're never supposed to leave a knife outside unattended um yeah you must put these away and Yeah, I like that. Yeah, I gotta go. Yeah, so. And we gotta blow? Because I'm gonna.

You know? Yeah, he was a squirrel. He videotaped me having threesomes with him. Oh, really? Oh, yeah. Have you gotten, do you have the rights to those tapes? Oh, my God, yeah.

Are they around? Yeah, really. The weird grainy black and white videos? Yeah. But in his garage, he had floor to ceiling, every magazine publication on that murder was in his garage. I mean, you know, obviously history has proven to make him a very unsympathetic character. Basically, history has proven to make him a very unsympathetic character. Yeah.

But, you know, in light of that murder, I really wonder, you know, what that fucking did to that guy. Well, I think what that did was, you know, I mean, I think the, it was, you know, his psychology was formed as a kid when he escaped. Yeah. The camp. Yeah. Yeah. Sure. And then that.

And then, like, you know, something just broke forever. Exactly. A knife in the water. I mean., the camp, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Sure, and then that, and then like, you know, something just broke forever. Yeah, no, exactly. I'm a knife in the water. I mean, you know, dark guy. So when you come, when do you finally like land out here? Were you working? So, yeah, I would work

every time I would, you know, come. And it was a really interesting time because everybody was sort of making the move, right? Right, in the 70s? Late 70s? We're talking mid-70s now. Oh, good times. Yeah. Everyone's sort of slowly migrating out to California, right? Right, in the 70s? Late 70s? We're talking mid-70s now. Oh, good times.

Yeah. Yeah. Everyone's sort of slowly migrating out to California, right? Right, right. And I remember somebody saying, sort of like the Herman Hesbuck, Magister Lou Day, there are only 800 of us. There are 800 of us. Like, there's a tribe.

You know? Well, I always, when I talk to people about Hollywood from that time, I'm very fascinated with the small town nature of it. And that, like, you know, if you were at a certain level, you know, you were kind of around, everyone was around. And then there were the hangers-on. Then there were the facilitators of bad news, you know, who used to go places, you know, bring drugs and whatever. That's right. But there was just this, it was a small community. It was.

And everybody seemed to be at someone's house. Yeah. Right? At someone's house. Yeah. Right? At someone's house in the canyon, you got Beechwood, you got Laurel. Right. And then in between the Troubadour and Dantanas. Yeah. Right.

Exactly. That's really where it happened. Right. You know? Right. And then in the homes, of course, in the canyons, you know? So who were you running with? Who were the people in the 70s?

I was running with John Prine. Oh, I love him. I love him. He was the... And I love his wife. And like, you know, I had him on the show. I just, what a fucking... I met him with John Prine. Oh, I love him. I love him. And I love his wife. And like, you know, I had him on the show. I just, what a fucking. I met John.

I worked on Willie Nelson's first annual 4th of July picnic at Dripping Springs, Texas in 71. The first one. The first one. Oh, yeah. And, you know, I got around. I mean, yeah. And I was this. So you knew Willie a long time.

Oh, I knew Willie forever. Yeah. And I met John there. And John was performing there. Yeah. And at the end of the evening, he was sitting at the edge of the stage. And everyone was exhausted. And obviously, you know, evening's done.

It went on for three days. And I sat down next to him. And he said, the stars are so beautiful, they embarrass me. And I fell madly in love. I think I just did. And, you know, I had a thing with him that night and it kind of went on. It went on, you know, wherever we were. Yeah.

You know, I saw him in New York. Sure. When he was there, I'd see him in L.A. And it went on for quite a while. It went on for two decades. And that was really the context of it, though? Like, hey, let's hang out. Yeah.

You know, it's interesting because when he died, I was so sad. And I had to look at that. I had to say, why? You know, he was the only other man I loved. I mean, besides Richard. Oh, really? Yeah. Interesting.

You could not be with him. Yeah, no, he was a sweet guy. He just had this fucking soul. Yeah. And such a poet. Yes, for sure. And he just, you know, one night at the- That vulnerability seems to be what you like, huh?

The vulnerability. I'm making a note of that. Well, I mean, you know know when you try to draw a line between those two guys they're both sort of poetic spirits that's it, that's really it I remember one night I was still carrying

around the luggage of my childhood souvenir if you will and he played a song called Bruised Orange for me he had just written and i mean he made me look at myself too he just made me say what am i doing with this self-pity this kind of you know um self-importance that i'm getting from from sadness yeah it let me just abandon that he made me look at it yeah and uh he was just special in every way

yeah yeah so i mean you know when he died what happened to you were you no you know i was really really sad and i had to say why couldn't we ever get together yeah for real and i think it i had to look at the fact that that's the way it was kind of established right you know and i wasn't ready to sure to settle down with him. And it's a strange thing with people that have relationships with troubadours and performers. I mean, you know, it is a thing. It is. And, you know, there are terms to it.

And it's existed forever. That's right. And, you know, I don't know if it's a pathology. It's just, you know, you get what you can, I think. Yeah. Right? And you have to respect it. Yeah.

I mean, if you can't stand the heat you know take the exit right yeah yeah yeah so so when you finally settled out here yeah so i'm out here and i am living in a little bungalow on um a different little apartment yeah in the 70s i have a little bungalow are you working working? Working? Yeah, here and there. I'm doing little bits and films. I was in Sunshine Boys and Man in the Glass Booth and Wild Party, James Ivory. Yeah, I'm getting work, right?

Yeah. So one day, my friend Lucy Soroyan, William's daughter, she was a brilliant girl. She died about, I don't know, 20 years ago now. Heroin overdose. Oh, God, man. Yeah. When everybody was cleaning up, too, which was so bizarre.

There's so much dope around. It's like, you know, everyone cleans up. But, you know, culturally, we all identify this, you know, this cleaning up period. But, you know, junkies are junkies and they're always going. Yeah. Yeah. It's true. They never stop.

No. It's so true. It's so true. But anyway, she said to me, listen, I'm working. I was in Texas with a friend of mine, Nano Byrne, a songwriter, and we were playing in clubs. She wanted to see if she wanted to be a performer. And I went along with her, and I could play guitar and sing. And so we sang in clubs in Austin, mainly Austin.

And I got back, and I'm like, I need a gig. I'm broke. I need a gig. know broke I need a gig and Lucy said well I'm working for Richard Pryor and she loved Richard she was she was what I called a one-night stand that stayed too long oh yeah and so she said come out you can be my you know kind of Sue decorator what was she doing for him she was actually it was her idea. She deserves credit for this. The opening of the NBC variety show. Yeah. When he said, they didn't take anything from me.

And then he's got the nude suit on. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That was her idea? That was her idea. Oh, that's great. So she was a smart girl. But she was forever haunted by her mother, who was Carol Soroyan Soroyan Matthau. Yeah.

Her stepfather was Walter Matthau. Yeah. And her dad, Carol Soroyan Soroyan Matthau. Yeah. Her stepfather was Walter Matthau. Yeah. And her dad, William Soroyan. Big shadow. She was visiting him in Fresno, and he was on his deathbed. And he said, leave me in peace. I can't stand the smell of your perfume. Let a dying man go in peace.

What a fucking monster. Yeah. That's how he said goodbye to her. Yeah. So Lucy, you know lucy was trouble but anyway so lucy took me out to um northridge yeah this house that he just recently bought and he needed a decorator and she so she was doing that too what year is this we're now 77 summer summer 77 august 77 right Right. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So you met him years before you guys got married. Oh, yeah.

Before he... Oh, yeah. I watched him marry someone else. I mean... He seemed to do that pretty often. He did. You know what I say about Richard? He married to end relationships. Yeah? Yeah. Right. It seems like every marriage was two years. Yeah. Exactly.

At the most. Exactly. A couple months, two years. Exactly. And then you either, you know, you either kept in touch with him or, which of course he recycled everybody, you know, I mean, he just did. But, so I worked for him and I. What do you mean by recycled?

Like they were, everyone was sort of, there's like, are you saying that outside of maybe the first couple that everyone remained in his life yeah kind of yeah he he he didn't let go easily i mean even though he would kick you out it was always temporary you know he would he would um he loved to pit women against each other of course that was a that was kind of you know king henry so what to make him feel? I think, Richard, this is the part that's hard, isn't it? I don't know. It's hard to obviously psychoanalyze a guy, but I mean, you know, you spend time with him

and there are mysteries around the guy and some of those things you've talked about publicly, but I mean, these are just whatever your feelings are. Well, exactly. I mean, you know, yeah yeah he pissed me off the way he would so he provoked jealousy to get you know people manipulation manipulation yeah yeah yeah that's a fair word to apply to all of that but it's ego driven yes of course and it's drama replaces you know true intimacy yeah there you go yeah there you go but you know, true intimacy. Yeah, there you go. Yeah. There you go. But, you know, what does one bring to the party, too?

So where am I lacking? Yeah, of course. Where's my trouble with intimacy that I'm having, too? Well, I mean, who doesn't? You know, when you look at his background, you know, I think the intimacy thing is really like, you know, if your parents were untrustable emotionally, what are you going to do? There you go. You're going to wrestle with it.

You're going to have a few fleeting moments of vulnerability and then lash out. Exactly right. That was terrible. Yeah, that was terrible. Get the fuck away from that person. But the interesting thing about him ultimately is that what makes him transcendent and what everyone talks around or talks directly about was essentially his vulnerability. what everyone talks around or talks directly about was essentially his vulnerability.

So when he was on stage where he seemed to feel the safest, he was willing to open up like that. And a big price to pay. I guess so. A big price to pay. Why do you think that is? What do you mean by that? Oh, God. Because I think that when you give of yourself so deeply, you know this is a stand-up too.

Yes. All right. So you're pouring. But not all stand-ups do that. No, no. Of course not. No, no. No, I mean, most stand-ups, if you think about stand-up and the reason why he stands alone is because, you know, Harry Shearer once said to me, you know, people become comedians so they can have control or try to have control over why people laugh at them. So, you know, for a lot of comedians, the only risk is not getting the laugh. Okay.

So it's not like they're out there putting their heart on the line. You know, they're putting their ego on the line. But, you know, with Richard, there was a sense of that. Even when, you know, people talk about Chappelle or how great Chappelle is, that the vulnerability that Richard had because he was such a shattered guy, you know, he didn't have much control over. So it was always there. And I imagine you're saying the weight of that is that you're going to walk off feeling exploited in a way. Well, you feel the commodification of it all.

Do you know what I mean? Right, right. You feel used. Yes. You know, I've exploited myself. I've done it myself. I've exploited myself. So who the fuck are you going to be angry at?

Who are you going to lash out at now? And look at me. I've seen him. I saw him a few times go after studio heads. And I could understand it because he felt at times like a commodity, which I think all artists do at some point. Well, sure. You know, if you're in touch with any of it, you know. Yeah, of course. Intellectually. I get it. sure. You know, if you're in touch with any of it, you know. Yeah, of course.

Intellectually. I get it. Yeah. Yeah. But that vulnerability, you're right. Not everybody does it. A lot of people become actors, comics, I think, so they can put the mask on. Yeah, or else they have a character on stage, you know.

And Richard, obviously, from what I could tell, had a disposition. But it just seems after, seems after reading the autobiography, which the most fascinating thing about that was the prior convictions, is that it feels like he wrote a lot of it, whether he was speaking it or not, but it was almost childlike in the way he presented his past. So I feel like he somehow was very in touch with this sensitivity and this vulnerability that seemed very young amidst all the fucking chaos and everything else that he was. You know, the really incredible thing that you just hit upon is his journals.

And after the fire, he's after he burned himself up after he lit himself on fire and tried to kill himself. Let's call it what it is. Well, yeah, let's let's let's do that because it seems like you know you were with him for that yeah i was with him i was there he said if you don't leave bitch it's going to happen to you too really yeah so all right well before we get to the journal so so you meet him in 77 where's he at he is doing the nbc variety show pam greer is coming in and out of the house. I'm working. I'm meeting workers.

And that's in the box set, the four episodes. Yes. Of his show. Yeah. Where he took all those Comedy Store people and stuck them in there. Yeah. Robin and Sandra. Robin and Sandra.

Shirley. Paul Mooney. Paul Mooney. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, Mooney. Mooney. Shit.

Mooney. Goodbye. Yeah. And a love-hate thing with Richard P.S. But. Well, I don't know what, you know, like, I saw footage of that weird roast, that one that wasn't public. Yeah. With all the sort of homosexual overtones and, you know, whatever Moonie was up to.

I don't know what the nature of that relationship was over time. Richard? Richard and him. Well, Richard was honest about it. You know, he was giving someone a tour of his house in Northridge. This is kind of an infamous tale now. And he said, hey, Paul, tell them this is the room where I fucked you. You know, hey, listen, what I say is enough dope and you'll fuck a radiator and send it to flowers in the morning.

Yeah, Coke is like that. Yeah, but the weird thing about Coke, if you're a dude, dude you may fuck a radiator but it's going to take you a couple hours but you're going to keep working at exactly right exactly right and once you get it done you're like i can't i can't almost died that's but uh so so anyway so so so yeah so here we are 77 yeah and um i'm meeting workers. I'm trying to help Lucy kind of put this all together. And so the turning point was my birthday, August 31st, 1977. Richard says, I have a gift for you.

Now, remember these were the days. And he hands me an envelope, and it full of coke right with a nice note and of course the three of us start doing blow yeah and it gets to be late and he said you can't drive home go to the guest room and lucy and he go to their bedroom and um so the sun's coming up lucy comes back and says we gotta go and i said lucy i have to be here in an hour. Yeah. Why am I going to leave? It's the worst feeling. It's the worst feeling, right? Oh, my Lord.

If I, for some whatever reason, can't get to sleep at night and I see that sun come up, I'm like, it all comes back. It all comes back. It's the worst. You just want to die. You just want to grab hold of something that isn't there. You don't feel good for two days. No, no, at least. And you hate yourself more and more.

So the son, she's got the white wall nasal nostrils and she goes, we got to leave. Richard pulled a gun on me. This is the first day you met him? Yeah. No, this is maybe a week or so later. Oh, okay. I met him on August 22nd. This is now the 31st, my birthday.

The second date with the gun. The second date with the gun. Yeah. He pulled a gun on me. I said, oh, dear. Yeah. And she said, so we have to go. Yeah.

And I said, but I'm- Why would he pull a gun on you? Yeah. What? Apparently, he asked her for a blowjob and she turned him down. Uh-huh. Hence the gun. Okay. But where are you in this? he asked her for a blow job and she turned him down. Hence the gun. Okay, but where are you in this?

Oh, I'm in the guest room. Oh, I see. I'm in the guest room. She goes, he pulled the gun on me. I'm like, okay, but I have to be here in an hour. In other words, wild horses couldn't have driven me away. So Richard comes in. She takes off, furious furious yeah and richard comes in an hour or so later and with a blue terry cloth tattered robe and it says to me you have to stay

and help me she's gone she quit yeah i fired it whatever this jumble of words were right and i my house is torn up and i need you to help me. Of course I'll help you. Of course. I'm not going anywhere. And it's so weird that this is happening like after a Coke bender. So no one's eaten. No. You're fucking, you're saturated with booze and blow. And there's that weird thing in the air and he's fucked up. And you're like, okay, great.

Beginning of a great thing here. This is absolutely, absolutely. Why not? I'm in. I'm all in. then you got to take a nap for a day exactly right exactly right so so that's how it started so that's how it started and then we we did you fuck on that day no no no we graduated to this this is kind of this is kind of well it contradicts the whole thing with john brian but um this is kind of how it how how you say well you don't fuck on thing with john prine but um this is kind of how it how how you say well you don't fuck on the first day get to know somebody which is what happened richard and i started having these long conversations he had this office uh upstairs

overlooking an atrium and um he'd say come talk to me yeah and we talk about everything yeah and meanwhile he was seeing debor and it was Christmas time. He called me out to the house, and he gave me a bonus and said, why don't you start playing chess with me? This is Christmas now, end of 77. Start playing chess with me. And I said, okay. And he had some blow, and we were doing some blow and playing chess.

Blow and chess. Yeah. Great. A lot of talking. And I start winning. Yeah. And he gets mad at me. Yeah.

And he knocks the chess pieces off the thing. Sure. And we start kind of on the desk a little. Yeah. And then in the driveway comes Deborah. She had taken off in a huff. Deborah who? Deborah, well, Pryor.

Right. McGuire Pryor. Right, right. Okay, okay. And African American who married before me. They were still married? Yeah, they were still married. Actually, yeah, they were still married.

And he said, I have to have you. Where can we go? And I said, well, right now I'm staying with John Schlesinger at his house on Sweets. The director? Yeah. And his boyfriend, Michael Childers. So I had a room over there. I moved my bungalow.

Anyway, so he followed me. And we made love. Yeah. And where made love. Yeah. And where'd Debra go? And Debra's probably still at the house. Debra has a lover of her own. Okay. So this is some 70s shit.

This is some more 70s coke shit, right? Whenever people talk about this stuff, because I know what the cocaine time zone is, anytime I hear these memories, it's just that weird electric haze. Comes back. Comes flooding back. But that is what you're driving through. Yeah. You've got to know that feeling.

Yeah. Because it's not like everyone's just having a day. No. It's fucking insane. It's insane. Oh, it's insane. Yeah. And I, you know, I mean, it was like, you know, strap on because you are taking a ride here.

So where's he at creatively? Are you going to watch him do his shit? Where is he working? Here's where we'll go creatively. So cut to New Year's Eve where he shoots the car. Okay? What year was that? That was 70?

You were with him then? No. Okay. No, no, no. Follow this. Christmas 77. 77. A week later, we have New Year's 78.

Right. Okay? Okay. I'm back. He's visiting family. Yeah. Visiting my crazy, fabulous family. Yes.

And I'm on a plane back when he shoots the car. And you know the routine. Yeah. You're not leaving in this. You may be leaving, but you're leaving in those hush puppies. And that was Deborah? That was Deborah. Okay.

And her three friends. Yeah. Who all were getting in the vintage Mercedes. Same gun I guess that he drew on. Which I have by the way. I have that gun. The famous gun? The famous 357 Smith & Wesson. Yeah. Took the firing pin out. He almost killed me with that gun too.

How many times? Oh God. Seriously? Yeah. Once. Okay. Really close. Fuck. So okay here we are, 78. Yeah. And... So he gets that great bit.

That's live in concert. Brilliant. Brilliant. That's 78 live in concert. Okay. Okay, so now we're... New Year's 78, he shoots the car. So he...

I get back, and his secretary calls me and says, stay away from the house. It's all hell's broken. You know, he was arrested. It was a whole scene. So he calls me up and goes, where are you? You know, it's now a week or so later. And I said, well, I was told to stay away.

He said, please come out to the house. So I came out and he said, you know, I'm really in trouble and things are really terrible. And anyway, we made love. I stayed the night. And he said, look, I'm going to Hana, Mauii tomorrow and I want you to come down in a week's time. Yeah. I said, love it. Love it. We'll do. Which is what happened now. So I go to Hana. Yeah. He buys land there and we have this incredibly lovely romantic time. Right. We come back to Los Angeles and we we're you know we're dating some

craziness is going on yeah but so i'll get to the key bit which is of course we're on cold water canyon one night we'd been to sammy davis's house yeah and we're driving home yeah and he does a u-turn in cold water and i said where are where are we going? He goes, you'll see. You know, down sunset, pulls in the comedy star. And I had never seen him on stage before. So he plops me down at a table. In the small room? In the original room? The original room.

His favorite room was the OR. Yeah, the best. And he gets on stage, and Mitzi's there squealing, I can't believe he's back. She loved him so much and um he gets on stage and he starts talking about the first thing he sees which is candle wax on the floor yeah and I start taking notes about what he he's just starts free-forming you know his mind is popping right things are coming out, bam, bam, bam.

Yeah. And this was the beginning of wood shedding for live. In concert. In concert. That was the movie, man. That was the one

that changed my life. And then he just stayed on that. He kept going there and working it. Yeah, he started, that was May. That was May 78. Wow.

When he started putting that together. And it's all personal experience. Like most of that stuff in there is like. All. All. And that's the great stuff.

The dogs and stuff and all this stuff. Everything. The monkeys. Isn't the monkeys in that too? Yeah, the monkeys. And that's where Richard's genius is. And when I see people try to manufacture sometimes stories, I'm thinking, oh man, just tell a story about your fucking life.

Right. Right. Right. Right. Just tell the truth. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Right. Just tell the truth. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

You know, probably a paragraph. Unfortunately, like, not everybody is as chaotic and impulsive and out there as Richard. So the life gets a little limited. Yeah. Yeah. Not everyone's going to shoot their car, come back with the bit. Well, you hit on something I used to say to him, too. Sometimes he'd start a fight and i'd say

richard oh you need material this is the creative process yeah yeah put the gun away i get it that's it we shot it in um so he put you know at the end of the summer midsummer he's got it together he goes on the road yeah and um i went on i went on the road with him for some of that period of time this rumor that people said that like during the show that was actually shot that he turned around did blow no okay good totally and this is the thing that people really get wrong about richard yeah richard really was disciplined yeah i mean when he had a mission when he had when he had his focus yeah he was focused and knew what he wanted to do and knew he had to do something,

he would take naps in the afternoon. Oh, yeah, he'd do it. He would do it. He was very disciplined. Not that we didn't party. He wasn't going to fuck it up, though. He wasn't going to fuck this up. The work was the most important.

Yeah, he knew he had to dig himself out. He painted himself in a corner with that car shooting, and he was in deep shit. Culturally. Oh, yeah. I mean, people weren't returning his calls. Everyone thought he did that Hollywood Bowl thing, too, in that interim. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

That was that whole thing. The weird anti-gay thing? He got married in the space of a couple weeks. He married Deborah. He kissed my rich black ass. Oh, that. Right, right, right. I heard a tape of that recently. Yeah. Oh, that. Right. Right. Right. I heard a tape of that recently.

Yeah. It's fierce. It's fierce. Wasn't there some sort of weird anti-gay diatribe in there, too? Or am I making that up? No. There was a, he called everybody. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. And, but he had seen, there are different stories about what provoked him. Yeah. He told me he saw some racism going on, you know, backstage. Oh. Yeah. Right. That's what I heard. The dancers. Right. Right. Right. Yeah. provoked him yeah he told me he saw some racism going on you know backstage oh yeah right and the dancers the the right right right yeah and um and he he was really upset about it and and he lashed out sure and i was hanging out with a very heavy group of gay guys at the time schlesinger and all those people and they were like jennifer you're running with this guy and he's like you know he

hates gays but he didn't hate gays. Of course not. It was just a moment of crazy shit that happened in his head. So after he does the live in concert thing, does shit level off or what? So December shoot live in concert. It comes out in February, 78. Huge hit. Sorry, 79. Huge hit. Sorry, 79.

Huge hit. Yeah, huge hit. And he crosses over and things start to get crazy. That was really the one, right? That was it. That was the one. In fact, Scott Saul wrote a book called Becoming. I read it.

Okay. Yeah. Where does it end? There. Yeah. Why? Because it was called Becoming. Yeah, I get it.

That's when the voice, it all coalesced. It all came together. I love that book. You like that book? I do like that book. I think he did his homework. Yeah. I wished it had gone the distance, you know, only because I would have liked to have seen

it well done. What do you mean, the second half? Well... Gone the distance how? Like, to keep going past? Second half. Well. Gone the distance how?

Like to keep going past. You know, and I understand because look at the truth is after live in concert. Even though the money and the fame and all this is going up. The truth is the trajectory of Richard's life was going like that. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you can feel it in the like. I mean, I don't know when the actual disease kicks in but i mean like certainly i i don't 86 86 86 male clinic diagnosed him oh but like i can see what you're saying and i don't know what

what caused that i don't know what was it within him that after after that live in concert that must have been the beginning of him feeling exploited or seen or commodified or all the other stuff. Yeah. Too big. Too big. Right. And when you throw celebrity, come on, it's nothing new. Celebrity and money and fame, bam, here it all is.

You can have it. You can have it. What do you want? What means something? You know, I mean, it's hard to be in a relationship. Honey, take out the garbage. Right. Really?

Yeah. I mean, that's hard to be in a relationship. Honey, take out the garbage. Really? Yeah. I mean, that's not going to work. So what happens in that two-year period of time before him trying to kill himself when you're with him? Like after live in concert, he does a movie or two, right? He does. Okay. So we got married. Not really.

We got married August 16th, 1981. The fire was June 9th, 1980. But right. But so in 78, though, 79, he does live in concert, right? Yeah. And then, but what is, when you say he starts going on a downward trajectory, what's happening? So he's doing some films. And, of course, Bustin' Loose was the film that he was working on.

And everything just starts to fall apart. He discovers Freebase, his lovely drug dealer. He also does the Muppet movie. Yes, he does. And he does In God We Trust. Things are happening. Stir Crazy. Bustin' Loose.

Yeah. Big movies. Yeah, Stir Crazy. Okay. That's where. Okay. So he was high the whole time on Stir Crazy. Okay.

Freebase. Okay. So after Bustin' Loose, he comes home. We're not getting along because he's cheating on me big time with some girl in the movie. And I'm not behaving well either. Yeah. Sure. Okay.

So I walk in the house one day and I smell smoke. And I'm like, what the fuck? And I follow the smell to the back master bedroom. And he has accidentally, he's a little arsonist. He always was. He accidentally lit the mattress on fire doing this free base, this new free base thing with rum and cotton and cooking it and all this shit. And he lit the bed on fire, mattress on fire, drag it to the bathtub, blah, blah. Freebase, this new Freebase thing with rum and cotton and cooking it and all this shit. And he lit the bed on fire, mattress on fire, drag it to the bathtub, blah, blah.

This is the beginning of a nightmare. Yeah. This is when Freebase comes into the house. Right. I eventually leave because Freebase has moved in. It's like a woman. The way you made love to me was a shame and a disgrace. Your ice-cold heart chilled my soul. Your woman is Free yeah it was yeah i wasn't there anymore i did it with him i hated it so i hated it ah you know i give me a little blow yeah no no no no this is like a mallet on the head

yeah it's like it's like heroin it's making blow into heroin almost yeah because you go out you just zone out yeah you know and and he just it just took over everything so i moved out um it's weird he didn't get into dope huh didn't get into heroin huh richard yeah well not that he didn't try yeah yeah there were there were moments to come down probably probably yeah there were moments, though. Yeah. But, yeah, so it was a very dark period. I had an apartment at that point in Beverly Hills. And he would show up in the middle of the night. And just creepy, creepy shit was going on with this fucking free base.

It makes you crazy. You had no sleep. You could go crazy. You're crazy. Yeah. And one night he said, I want you to come out and here's what I want you to wear. And by that time, I was going to AA meetings. Yeah.

Because I'm like, because I liked Quaaludes and I'm like, okay. Well, you can only take so much. You know, I got to straighten my shit out because I'm doing something every day. You go crazy. And I wasn't digging that. So I was, you know, I was, remember I went to Beverly Hills meeting and Rodeo. And they said, don't go see him. He's crazy.

But I had this little outfit on that, you know, I was in complete denial. I was going to Al-Anon at the same time. Sure. Get them all going. So I go out and he goes, blink your lights. Because now the family has come. Certain members of the clan has descended on the house. So I walk in and the front door, flash your lights, I'll meet you in the front door.

And he was dressed up like a member of the Gestapo. In a Nazi uniform? I'm not kidding you. I'm not kidding. Hey, well, at least he kept his sense of humor. Exactly. So I'm like, oh, shit, I got to get away from here. Anyway, it was a really dark scene.

And so stir crazy happens. And he walked off the set. It's kind of a rough movie to watch. You know what? I've never watched it. You know, like him and Gene did some amazing stuff. They did a couple of great movies. And then now that I think about like,

when I'm looking at the trajectory here, you know, on the page here, you know, that that's really, it's interesting that where, when he really becomes huge with that live in concert, that's it.

That's crossover time too. I know. White audience. It was, it was, that was, that changed comedy. It changed the world.

And then he just, it just started crumbling. And it was really the free base. It's really true. And then he just, it just started crumbling. And it was really the freebase. It's really true. I mean, that was it. Even though, of course, the checks were bigger. The paydays were bigger. The fame.

Yeah, but he never looked that together after that. He never was. It was a fucking freebase. A goddamn drug. And, you know, I I mean it makes me really sad it makes me angry too I'm still angry at him for doing that shit

I'm like at some point come on get off it it's enough I know we partied call it a day well that was it

so you guys made it through the fucking 70s and then this is what the 80s became this is what the 80s became and it was a fucking nightmare so when the day that he tries to kill himself so i went out there i he said you know um he had walked off the set yeah and um stir crazy yeah yeah and there are a couple of incidents i

went out to try to talk him you know hannah weinstein was one of the producers can you go talking back into you know we just need a couple days reshoot here and da, da, da. And he tried to kill me. He had his hands around my neck and said, you know, you're going to go down. And I'm like, I'm going to go down. And I got away. Yeah. And then I, you know, this is how crazy I was.

And my Al-Anon shit was like so crooked and twisted. I went back out there one day and, you know, the Coke on the desk, this antique child's desk I bought him was this high, a pile of it. And he's, you know, going through it. And he said, you know, I'm going to, I'm going to, it's over. I know what I need to do. And I said, Richard, Richard, now come on. You can't hurt yourself. He said, the shit's over. And I know what I have to do. And if you don't get the fuck out of here, it's going to happen to you too.

And Richard never made an idle threat. Personally, I know that. Right. Richard never made an idle threat. Yeah. Personally, I know that. Right. So I got out of Dodge and I got in my car and I flew like the wind back to my apartment and I called Jim Brown.

I said, Jim, he's going to hurt himself. He's going to. Oh, first of all, I told in the kitchen before I left, Andy and this other, you know, so-called bodyguard from the neighborhood. Yeah. You know, I said said he's going to hurt himself get out of here i mean they made it they laughed at me yeah stupid little white girl right right um i got back to my apartment i called jim and i said he's going to hurt himself he's going to do something and i had been in touch with jim about trying to get him into rehab yeah and jim jim said don't worry about it, Jennifer. I'll go out there this afternoon.

I hung up with Jim. I called the house. I'm talking to Andy. And the next thing I hear is a scream. Yeah. She drops the phone. Yeah. He is running through the house on fire.

Oh, my God. How many people are in the house? At that time, it was Andy and the bodyguard. I think that was it. There may have been another person in the room. When I heard that, I went out to the hospital and Valley Presbyterian, which is where he was. They got him to Valley Presbyterian, picked up on the highway. You know that whole story, picked up on the highway. You know that whole story,

picked up on running on fire. And I told the doctors, I said, listen, you have to know, he's loaded to the tits, literally on Coke and vodka and Kavosier. And I didn't want him to die. And they were, you know, you start shooting somebody up with morphine.

And they were there, of course, you course, with the psychology of you never talk, tell the truth about drugs or alcohol to the cops or anybody else. So they were, of course, trying to push me away. He was transferred to the burn center, which at the time was on Van Nuys. Yeah. And he stayed there. And thank God, got some help. Yeah. And was never the same. Never the same. He refused to see me.

He was mad at me. Refused to see me. Why do you think he was mad at you? Oh, I know why he was mad at me. I cheated on him with a woman and had the temerity to tell him. And it was a hooker. it was like the stockholm syndrome it was when he was on bust and loose it was very weird i twisted yeah cocaine shit cocaine and quite legit what can you say yeah you cannot explain this you know you can't explain

this yeah you can't explain it and you know it's amazing you remember it. Oh, listen, I wrote it all down, thank God, so that I have a reference book to my life. But, yeah, that was crazy. I mean, I hired a hooker, just like Richard, you know, because Richard loves hookers. And she walked in and she had her leg in a cast. And I said, I want my money back. Send me another one. And it was, yeah, coke and quail and uh and yeah so i told him this whole thing thinking he wouldn't be as jealous because it was a woman yeah right right well no oh the

worst thing was i had given him uh i get i gave this hooker a doll that i'd given him this this i called it a frou-frou doll she looked like a hooker with these big tits yeah and of course that just sent him over the edge and and that was the end of you guys for a while for a while yeah this, I called it a frou-frou doll. She looked like a hooker with these big tits. And of course, that just set him over the edge. And that was the end of you guys for a while? For a while, yeah. So he wouldn't see me in the hospital, and he was seeing everybody else. And a nurse took me in one day and said, I see you come every day, and it breaks my heart to see you. African-American nurse, the kindest woman ever, and said, you need to stop coming because he's not going to see you. The hospital is the best way to punish people. And I've seen it all.

She's telling me this. Yeah. And like, ding, a light goes on. So I stop. And he calls me up the day before he gets out of the hospital and says, I want you to come see me. I went out to see him and I walked in. He was different. He was never the same. He was changed he was changed I could see the skin grafts and everything yeah but his his the light in his eyes was gone the light was gone now and this is where the

now is this where these diaries come into play that you were talking okay so here's what happened. So Richard and I, this is now the summer, okay? Summer of 1980. And I don't speak to him again. He goes off to Maui to recuperate. He's still doing drugs, by the way. Yeah, even after he gets out of the hospital. During. He had somebody bring drugs in.

Right. Yeah. Blow. You blow. You really want to be awake for that, huh? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Jesus Christ. Yeah, you want to be awake for that, huh? Yeah. Jesus Christ. Yeah, you want to stay up in the burn unit.

Hyper-vigilant. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Oh, God. So he is now, he's given an interview to Barbara Walters and lies about the fire the fire which tells me by the way you can never correct that first impression when the media puts it out yeah it says this is what happened because he tried to correct it and he never could correct it said it was an accident yeah he said it was oh the ship blew up you know and then of course it became a famous joke about the cookies

yeah um but uh so you know i said rich, you didn't go through the burning bush. You got to fucking tell the truth. Yeah. You know, you can't lose your way this badly. Come on. So he started writing. He said, I want to write a book. Yeah.

So he started. He got an agent in New York. And he started. I had bought him these beautiful leather bound journals that's right he does sort of cop to it in prior convictions doesn't he yeah and Jojo he tried to tell the truth in Jojo yeah nobody wanted to know the truth he was that was the beginning of prior convictions these di Yeah. So he gets to a certain point in the diaries, and I have them. And these beautiful, you know, rice paper, leather bound,

I had bought them at this wonderful shop in New York. Yeah. And he says, I don't want to write this book. And he stopped writing in these journals, and I disappeared from his life. I was not around at this time and he um he hired a co-writer but you thought that you know when i brought up the child like tone you saw it oh yeah even the i want to publish these someday they are so beautiful and one of the most beautiful things about them is that Richard was

dyslexic. And he spells phonetically. And I find them like Frida Kahlo's diaries. The handwriting is so artistic and beautiful. I showed them to a very well-known literary agent

I know in New York, friend of mine. And he said, the dumbest thing I ever heard. What? The dumbest fucking thing I ever heard. What do agents know? Exactly. Exactly. He said, oh, well, it's really hard to decipher sometimes,

so you have to have it typewritten, and you can't publish like this. Oh, like he's saying you need to correct the text. You can't have any of these missing. the text you have to you can't have any of these missing we have to do a nice book where they're actual pictures of the pages is what you yeah exactly right exactly right cash in book yeah exactly a cash in book would be spot on with unpublished photos i have in these you know because it gorgeous yeah yeah yeah um i don't know who published frida but it just has the same feel to it. There's also that book. Someone did a Diane Arbus book with a lot of the scraps. I'll show it to you.

Maybe. I think that's an art publisher. So anyway, so. So I've got to find the right publisher one day. But that was the beginning. So we abandoned that and then went for the okey-doke, as he would say. The okey-doke. Yeah.

The old okey-doke. The old okey-doke old oaky doke and todd gold enter todd gold and he writes this what i think is a very dumbed down version of of i you know i you know i sure but like but i did like parts of it yeah the i it was one of those things where it's like i think the childhood stuff is pretty solid yeah you know but you'll see the child in this too oh yeah i'm sure yeah i mean he must have taken some of it from i mean richard must have yeah talked to him yeah yeah and those memories are what they are right yeah well todd was really you know todd called me

up one day and said hey listen that scene in your book where he has a breakdown in peoria with the family when they're all playing poker can i I have that scene? Because I need something like that in the book. Like a fool, I said yes. Yeah. You had published a book? Oh, I published a book. Yeah. The Tarnished Angel.

It's out of print. It's all there. Well, the interesting thing, though, is that you were with him during this amazing upheaval and emotional and creative catharsis and all this stuff. And then you were there then, you know, when he started to really go down and then he does the Sunset Strip bit, which is so vulnerable. It's hard to watch in places the live on the Sunset Strip. I mean, like him making light of this thing, you know, having not really reckoned with

the trauma. It's a little hard to watch sometimes. It is. It is. And and then like. So what happens to your thing you guys just because you you re-enter when he's on in bad shape again right but like what goes on in the interim so in the interim he so so okay so he's out of the hospital in hana contemplating

what is his next move a la book starting to write and then that christmas new year's eve he calls him because can you meet me at the airport let's go to hana together yeah and and of course you know i'm like dying i'm so in love with him at this point still and um you know i went i went to hawaii with him and we had a couple of good weeks yeah but he's shuffling women back and forth right you know You know, so that whole thing is still going on. And- Isn't he in bandages? No.

Okay. No, but he's still healing. Yeah. I mean, I remember hearing him scratch in the middle of the night and it was, ah. Yeah, yeah. It was just, yeah. Yeah. It was skin graft.

Yeah, yeah. Stuff. Right. And it was hard stuff. yeah stuff right and um it was it was it was it was hard stuff it was really difficult enter the summer yeah and um i'm like i gotta get out of here i can't do this with him anymore this is such bullshit yeah i'm gonna go to europe i've got some friends there whatever i'm gonna take off he said, well, just come see me before you do that. Yeah.

And control, control, control. So, of course, I visit him and he proposes. And I'm like,

ah, Richard. Yeah. Really? Yeah. And I was dating somebody at the time. Yeah.

Yeah. And I had a young lover at the time. Yeah. A nice young I had a young lover at the time. Yeah. A nice young lover, Venezuelan, UCLA student. So you married him?

I did, August 16th, 1981. So this is 81, 82. Yeah. It didn't last a couple years. 81. Okay, so,

yeah, already a rough start. Yeah. Already, wedding night, glass thrown at me. Well, you had the whole relationship already.

You had arced, you know, and then that that we were on the downside right exactly so richard did he marry me to end the relationship there you go there you go there's my theory so we went on a honeymoon on a boat in the caribbean and um he he was violent with me and i said never again this is the last time and he said well I've got to go see Uncle Dickie. He's had a heart attack, and he left me on the boat. Yeah. To go to Illinois? He went to Illinois. Yeah, the boat was docked in Marigot Bay in St. Lucia.

And I wasn't allowed to go anywhere on the boat. The captain had strict orders. And I'm like, well, shit, then I got to get out of here. Went back to L.A. and started divorce proceedings. And that was it. And, you know, my heart broke and I thought, I got to get out of Dodge. It's interesting that he kept this, you know, like he did stay close to the Illinois clan. Yes.

Yeah. Well, isn't that how it works kind of in the African-American community especially? One makes it you got to bring everybody along. And he did. Right. And he did. I mean, you know, he took everybody with him. I moved back to New York.

I'm like, I got to get out of here. In 82. Yeah. Figure out what just happened. Yeah. What just happened. Did you sober up or what? Oh, yeah.

No, I was more or less, you know, but I wasn't abusing the way I was when I was with him. We're just coming out of that whirlwind of, it seemed like a decade at least. I had to figure it out. It felt like 20 years of my life. You know, because Richard, in a week in Richard's life is like 20 years to somebody in Iowa, right? Or upstate New York. Or upstate New York. So, obviously, we can't get into the whole whole second half but what brought you back in 2000 or 1999 or whatever or when did that start again when did you guys when did he need you again

oh my god so um you know we would always he would call me from time to time and and um i saw him in 86 and he asked me to read jojo Dancer, which is before the diagnosis. Yeah. Yeah. Well, he was diagnosed, but I didn't know it. And so he was working on Jojo, produced Jojo. I was not in his life at that time. He would come to New York and I'd see him. Then 1989, he came and did Sina Weevil. And he asked me to help him out on that, you know, with dialogue, whatever.

And we were staying at the Plaza Atene and I realized at the time that he was walking very strangely, very, and I said, why are you walking like an old man? Yeah. And he said, I have MS. This is 89.

Yeah. So that was it. he and i were kind of adieu for a little while yeah and i told hey the temerity to say to him one day hey take a walk up madison avenue i kind of get off my jock you know he was just always on me needy needy needy and he and he showed me he picked up a sales girl, you know. Yeah. Brought her and her little dog and the little stupid baby kibble with the little cigarettes. Oh. I said, Richard, what the fuck?

Again, right? Yeah, you guys had a thing going. Oh, heaven and hell, we visited. And, yeah. So, in 92, I visited him again and things were, you know, he was going down the tubes and the hangers on were everywhere. 94, he came back. He was in New York staying at the Helmsley Palace. Think of the Apollo honoring him.

Deborah was in tow. A couple of bodyguard, Rashaun, you know, the usual. And he was drinking water glasses full of vodka and the pills. And I'm like, Richard, you're going to kill yourself. Did he get strung out on pills with the burns? Strung out on everything. Never, never really stopped. What were the pills? Vicodin.

Oh. Percocet, Vicodin, you know, painkillers. Right. And I'm like, Richard, this is, you know. And there you had Deborah asking me to go down to the jewelry store in the Helmsley Palace to get the white lady's price on a diamond ring. That's the kind of shit that was still going on. Right. 90, 90, 94.

Yeah. And he said, you know, my life's really gone down the tubes. I said, no shit. No shit. It's so sad. No, just take a look. And so I took a couple trips out to kind of see if I could do this. And I was talking to my dad at the time, you know, who was, you know, I had to think long and hard about this because it was never easy to come back into Richard's life.

Yeah. You know, and the chaos that ensued. There was always chaos, even when he was sick, even when he was going down the tubes and the locusts had descended. He was in a rental on Havenhurst near the Jackson. Just to keep a roof was like 45K. I decided, yes, I'm going to come back. But the mess to clean up and the threats. I had my life threatened.

By? Oh, ex-wives, maids. Yeah. I mean. And this is 90? Oh, ex-wives, maids. Yeah. I mean. And this is 90. 94. Summer of 94, I moved out. And I had a nice duplex rent stabilized apartment on 50th and Beekman Eastside.

And so I had to think about it, you know. But I jumped in because I saw what was happening. He had guns everywhere. Guns were hidden in all the cashmere sweaters. And I knew what he was doing. The money was going to go and he was going to kill himself. I mean, the writing was on the wall. Yeah.

He was not a stranger to suicide. And he's physically deteriorating. Deteriorating. Not eating, you know, vodka and the pills again. Vodka and the pills. And the work is, the movies are not great. He's not really doing stand-up, right? No, he's not doing stand-up.

Not doing anything. Yeah. So there are messes to clean up. For instance, child support payments are through the roof because they were established when Richard was making big bucks. Yeah. Do you have kids? Nope. Smart.

Either do I. Yeah. Richard had six by five different women. I remember when I was a doorman at the comedy store doing my little cocaine shit show. Yeah. Richard Jr. was around, you know, and I've met Rain maybe once, but I don't know the other ones. Yeah. They sued me, of course, when Richard died.

Yeah. I was wondering because like, you know, with this box set, which is great, we haven't really talked about it. And also all the stuff that you're doing with the estate, which is, you know, it's great because, like, there's always this constant, there's always an ongoing resurgence of interest in Richard. Yeah. That it never really goes away generationally. That's right. And you really kind of, yeah, I think each generation has to sort of reckon with the work. And it's really put together

nicely in this box which has almost everything in it. Yeah. And some new stuff too. Yeah. Yeah. And,

you know, but I just, when you were coming over here today, I'm like, oh, who's going to get mad about this?

They all would get mad and it's, you know, it's okay. They'll all get mad. You know, I'll cut to, they were all given a trust,

right? The kids had a trust. Yeah'll cut to, they were all given a trust, right? The kids had a trust. Yeah. But they wanted the IP. That's what they wanted more than anything, of course. The ongoing. Intellectual property. Right, right, right.

And Richard left everything in my care. Yeah. And I'm glad he did because one of the things I had to do when I came back was sue the pants off a lot of these motherfuckers who was just stealing what wasn't nailed down. Yeah. Right? And people who were smarter than me, who should have been watching the farm, business managers, lawyers, et al, weren't doing it. Yeah. So I had to do it.

And I learned quick, fast, and in a hurry, boy. I learned. And I coalesced the IP. The laugh records you mentioned. Sure. All of those. You know, Drozen, the original guy. He was out selling them and licensing. Yeah, he didn't care.

He didn't give a shit. So I sued him. We were in litigation for three years. I got everything back. And, you know, that's what I had to do was coalesce, coalesce. I'm still doing that with SoundExchange with a lot of titles that are, you know, Asia. Oh, really? Oh, yeah.

A lot of titles that are out there. Asia. And I'm working with good people now. And I've, you know. So when did, when you came back into his life as a caretaker. More or less. Right. That's what it struck me as.

He decided that reaching into the tunnel of his life, that you were the one that was going to do this. Yeah. Yeah. He trusted me. And I think one of the reasons he trusted me was we had a prenup when we were married, right? And my father, who's a brilliant lawyer, said, Jennifer, Richard hit you. And I want to sue him concurrently, not only for divorce, but for assault and battery. So we'll break the prenup. And I said, I'm not going to do it. And he's my father. And he said, why aren't you going to do that? And I said, because I didn't earn that money. It's not my money.

It's Richard's. I made an agreement. I signed that agreement, that prenup. I'm sticking by it. Why would I do that? And I still believe I did the right thing. Why would I do that? And for money.

And Richard trusted me. He knew what I was made of you know yeah and that i i wasn't gonna right i wasn't a shady bitch you know right and that i didn't have a baby for money and i didn't i didn't do that shit yeah yeah and um and he knew when i wrote my book you know and came back people like she wrote a book about you and and he said yep and the bitch told the truth was that with was that where the the sort of admission of his bisexuality first started coming around when it was that in that book um didn't he write about it in prior yeah i wrote about it didn't he write about it in prior maybe a little yeah yeah yeah yeah it's like it's weird

like in the big picture that you know especially in this culture we live in now, that, you know, that really isn't sort of taken for what it is as much as, as you would think that, you know, cause it was really part of him. It was part of him for a long time. Yeah.

I mean, he talked about it, you know, in routines, you know? Yeah. But it's like, you know,

they're, they're, they're little bits and pieces from older records. Like they're not full explorations. They're asides. Exactly right. Exactly right. But he did get it in there.

If you're paying attention. Yeah, exactly. If you're paying attention, yeah. So when you come back and he's sick. And it was a mess to pick up. So I had to lower child support payments. They all threatened me. All the mothers threatened me, right?

Because you're now managing the money. Because I'm managing. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, as my dad laid out for me, you've got to stop the hemorrhaging of money. You've got to rehabilitate him physically and physically. So your old man's guiding you through this. So he guided me. The wizard.

Yeah, the wizard. Harry was great. Harry was a genius. He's passed on now. But an Irish raconteur genius. Well, good, good. Yeah, yeah. And it was a heavy lift. It was a heavy lift. But I am so proud of it. I'm so proud of it that Richard lived the last 11 years of his life with dignity and love because he was taken care of. He was safe.

He was so fragile. He was so fragile. And it was really sort of, I saw him for a minute at the comedy store in the chair. In 95. He wanted to go back. Yeah. Now, Damon said to me, Damon Wayans said to me, why are you letting him do that, Jennifer? And first of all, I said, first of all, whoa, I'm not letting him.

Let's get that straight. This is Richard wanting to go back. He wanted the camaraderie. He wanted to be back at the store. wanted to still have he had see the guys he did i know and he had shit to say too yeah yeah you know yeah yeah so i kind of look at he says but it's tragic i said you know damon it's heroic and tragic sure it's both yeah it's a weird thing about you know the male ego and about like you know you don't want people to see that shit. Yeah. You know, but like it was really something because it did return him back to that state of the type of vulnerability he achieved because of the illness.

There you go. Was now inescapable. Inescapable. Right. So it wasn't fleeting. You know, it wasn't just for the stage. Yeah. He was, that was who he was. And I shot that and it's in the box that's great yeah i've got all that yeah yeah so it's it's been a

journey obviously and uh you know they're you know i'm working on a biopic oh the endless tortured history of the biopic did you have you seen anybody yeah. But I can't really talk about that because it's kind of what we're in the process of right now. So how far back are you going to go with that? Now, is that something that you consult with Scott about, Saul, or no? Or is it just you, all you? He's on as a consultant. We brought him in as a consultant. But I'm working with Kenya Barris on the script.

Yeah, yeah. And he's just got such a fresh look at it all and you know he's such a creative genius himself yeah you know but um genius the word genius richard hated the word genius um yeah well yeah yeah and i understand why yeah i mean i just read a piece on jasper johns where some woman is fetching about she doesn't really know how to paint. And he said, I never know how to paint. I never know what I'm doing. And that's Richard, too. And Richard would call him a genius.

People would call him a genius. He was really baffled by that, I think. He wouldn't take it on. I think as a comic or as an artist or as anybody, you don't want the pressure of that label. And a lot of times when you're an artist, you're sort like you know einstein's a genius yeah i'm a con man that's there you go there you go it's true yeah yeah yeah but uh but like i think you did a great job with this box and like and i'm excited about the movie and was definitely uh exciting meeting

you and talking to you and thank you for the thank you for the presence. Yeah. It's been deep. Yeah. Well, I mean, you know, he deserves it. You deserve it. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. And you look good.

Oh, thank you. Take care of yourself. Live to tell the tale. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. That's it. Pretty wild, huh?

Sad. But not so sad. I'm glad it was, you know, it's a side that we, you know, I'm glad that she had those memories and I'm glad we talked. All right, that's the Ultimate Richard Pryor Collection. Uncensored is available now exclusively. Enjoy it. It's got everything. Richard Pryor's show,

all his specials, JoJo Dancer, Your Life is Calling, documentaries, hours of stand-up, a bunch of late-night appearances, and interviews. It's amazing.

Okay, great. Let's play guitar. so guitar solo Thank you. so so boomer lives monkey and lafonda cat angels everywhere Boomer lives. Monkey and Lafonda. Cat angels everywhere. It's winter, and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything.

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