WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1281 - Ridley Scott

Episode Date: November 22, 2021

Ridley Scott has a secret weapon as a filmmaker and it probably has a lot to do with his career longevity and versatility. As a young boy, he would draw everything, and to this day he still storyboards every one of his films with his own drawings. That helps him deliver the finished product efficiently, often under schedule and under budget. Marc talks with Ridley about how he worked his craft on films like Blade Runner, Thelma and Louise, Black Hawk Down, Gladiator, American Gangster, and his two most recent films, The Last Duel and House of Gucci.  Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated

category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Death is in our air. This year's most anticipated series, FX's Shogun, only on Disney+. We live and we die we control nothing beyond that

an epic saga based on the global best-selling novel by James Clavel to show your true heart is to risk your life when I die here you'll never leave

Japan alive FX's Shogun a new original series streaming February 27th exclusively on Disney Plus 18 plus subscription required T's and C's apply.

Lock the gates! All right, let's do this. How are you, what the fuckers? What the fuck buddies? What the fuck nicks? What's going on? Is everybody all right heading into the holiday? Are you going to be okay?

Have you thought about a strategy? Have you strategized your holiday for the least amount of aggravation? Did you put a plan in place for Thanksgiving? Don't enter the ring without a strategy. All right, game it out. Figure out how you're going to go at it, how you're going to approach it. You know where the problems are. You know how they're going to come at you. Are you ready? Are you prepared? Put a plan in place before you enter the ring

on Thanksgiving. Do you understand me? I think you understand what I'm saying. Today, I'm going to talk to Ridley Scott. Now, Ridley Scott is one of the great directors, one of the great, a titan. Can I say a titan? Is that how you use that word? He's a titan of directors. He's a director titan. And if you don't know his work, I can tell you a few of the movies. Maybe you've seen Alien, maybe, or perhaps Blade Runner, maybe, or maybe Thelma in Louise, or how about Gladiator, or maybe The Martian. The list goes on. What was interesting about talking to Ridley is that how much he loves his own work.

We could all take a little something away from that, because I'm sure there are some Ridley Scott movies, if you guys know and you love Ridley Scott, that you're like, that wasn't that great. Not according to Ridley. All right. Every time I make a slightly pokey joke now, I feel like crying. Like there's a little part of me that wants to cry a little bit, but I laugh instead. And that is the best laughter. And I've said it many times. I have stated it before. The best kind of laughs are the ones that are cries.

But that's a personal preference. Anyway, he does talk about his movies like he's a huge fan of his movies. Like a fan. And it was kind of fun. He recently directed The Last Duel and also the new movie House of Gucci, which opens this week, which I saw. And Jared Leto, i had no idea that was jared leto i saw the movie at a screening i didn't do any research i didn't look at the cast and i'm

thinking the whole movie like who's this guy with the who's the bald guy with the weird hair i've never seen him before jared leto under a lot of makeup and i didn't know it was him it's fucking sad in a way as a guy who does kind of journalism ridley scott had to tell me i was i was genuinely surprised because i didn't fucking know until i talked to the director of the movie in real time that that was Jared Leto. Wow. He's great. Are you kidding?

Gladiator? How many times have you watched Gladiator? I used to watch it monthly just to get my spirits up. You know, even though it's kind of a weird, sad ending, he does make it to the field, whatever that field is. It seemed pretty. His kid and his wife were there. So that's where if you want want to end if eternity looks like

that and those things are important to you nice meadow kid wife everybody's uh dead together then it's a nice ending did i mention i'm been eating a lot of ice cream cookies the publishing play whoever's in charge of mel brooks's, they sent this box with the book. He's got a new book out. But it came in. The promo box was filled with Zabar's stuff. Zabar's Rugla and Zabar's Babka. Zabar's coffee.

A nice mug. But let's talk about Rugla and Babka. Or how do you pronounce it? Rugla? Whatever you, I don't care. Whatever you want to do. I will say Rugla. That's how I grew up with it.

Some of you are like, what is he even talking about? These are Jew pastries. The Jew pastries. Like many of you are familiar with hamantaschen. These were regular straight up cinnamon rugula and the classic chocolate babka. Now, if you people are confused about the Jew-ness of this, it's important. It's my past.

It's what I come from. I don't know. I can't justify eating these things compulsively as some sort of historical tradition. Like, it's part of my journey. It's part of my... It's a tradition. It's a ritual.

I don't pray. I don't. Not in Hebrew. But I'll eat the babka and feel connected to just generations of people eating babka, heart disease, other genetic problems, Tay-Sachs, colon cancer. You know, that's. Oh, God. tasax uh colon cancer you know that's oh god and then clementine sent me a bunch of fucking ice cream but anyways that's i don't want to talk about that shit i'm not doing it i'm not doing it i got bigger problems do you

i started seeing my therapist again last week two weeks two weeks in got to get down to it got to do some more in emdr got it you know locking i found i got some trauma man i got a little bit of trauma that i have to fucking uh tighten up i got i got to process it got to move through it it's old stuff it's stuff i've been avoiding it's a problem that is causing me tremendous boundary issues and also making me willing to take other people's shit. I know I don't seem like the guy that does that. But if you got my number, I will take your shit. And that's a problem.

I'm not saying that like a phone number and that you can just call me and start blabbering or abusing me. I'm just saying that on a metaphoric level if you've got my number i can be worked i'm an emotional mark yeah and i've had enough of it i don't know what that is it's got something to do with codependency it's got something to do with that you know it's just i know where it comes from i don't need to go into that but i'm working on it again thank you for all the positive feedback uh for uh our canceled comedy episode it looks like i might be talking to the uh smothers brothers in person at some point and then i realize this more and more and it kind of unnerves me about the whole issue is that i don't know why any of you got into comedy but i got into comedy because

i didn't fit in that well i was an awkward guy i uh you know i had my own issues I didn't fit in that well. I was an awkward guy. I had my own issues. I didn't like authority. I didn't like having a boss. I don't really do the team player thing that well. I wanted to speak my mind in a way that was uniquely mine. I wanted to not answer to fucking anybody. I didn't want to work with other people. I wanted to have total freedom to express my mind however the fuck I wanted. I wanted to figure it out. Solo. I know a lot of people that got into comedy, ended up doing sketch, ended up show running. Look, I've done ensemble work before.

I don't mind that. But stand up was my way to have my voice without anybody telling me shit. My point of view. It's not a team sport. mean what the fuck but the idea that there are these now there's an anti-woke comedy and that's a point of view that uh many people want to have that's a team so now these team players these fucking, these anti-woke guys and gals are just fucking hacks. They don't even have the courage to have their own point of view. I'm anti-woke.

So you're team anti-woke? I thought you were a fucking comic. I thought you were a guy or a woman with your own fucking thoughts. Yeah, I am. I'm a free thinker. I do my own research. Yeah, but your free thinking sounds like a hundred other fucking idiots

that are doing what? The same free thinking than you? Team anti-woke. It's like so many people that are quote unquote comedy fans are just fucking these hack losers looking for a leader. I've never seen so many kind of,

you know, people that want their freedom, that respect their freedom, that it's all about this freedom that like really want to fucking lick the boot, man. Really want to lick the boot. You anti-woke boot licker. I mean, what the fuck? It's an excuse for hacks. Isn't that why we got into comedy to be our own people?

Isn't that why we got into comedy? To be our own people? And look, man, I would say that my set right now is darker and probably more provocative than I've ever been in my life. But is it woke? No, it's just comedy. I'm just speaking my own mind. And I can handle if there's pushback, but I'm just saying, man, if you're on team anti-woke, tribe, is that your tribe?

Are you tribe anti-woke? You and Kid Rock. You're not thinking your tribe? Are you tribe anti-woke? You and Kid Rock? You're not thinking your own thoughts. You're a hack with an excuse for why you're failing. Anyway, how's everybody? Have a good Thanksgiving. Ridley Scott has just directed The House of Gucci, which opens in theaters this Wednesday, November 24th.

Also, The Last Duel will be available on digital platforms starting November 30th. And I think that's a great movie. And it was a real honor to talk to this guy. This is me talking to Ridley Scott. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer.

I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative.

Death is in our air. This year's most anticipated series, FX's Shogun, only on Disney+. An epic saga based on the global best-selling novel by James Clavel. To show your true heart is to risk your life. When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive. FX's Shogun, a new original series streaming February 27th exclusively on Disney+. 18 plus subscription required.

T's and C's apply. Hello. How are you? I'm fine. Where are you? I am in Los Angeles. I'm not afraid I'm going to get COVID from you if you want to take the mask off. Yeah, but I'm surrounded by people right now. Have you got the double jab? I've got the triple jab, my friend. So have I. I got the Moderna as well. Well, I'm going to take the mask off. Ready?

I'm going to breathe all over you. All right? Ready? Okay, go. And ready? And ha. Ah, there he is. Look at you.

By the way, the guy behind you. Yeah. On the wall. Mick Jagger. Well, I used to go to Twickenham Rugby Club for a booze up on Friday night. Yeah. And I went one night and had a teeny stage and on stage with these scrawny teenagers singing little red roosters the rolling stones oh that's a probably a great version of that song i love that song by them you know it's so weird you know

i've been thinking about them a lot i mean and you were there i mean you grew up through all that you were a conscious uh teenager in your 20 or in your 20s in the 60s uh it must have been very exciting to be in london in the 60s the late 60s no because i was at the royal college of art and frankly i was on a grant so i was trying to live on three pounds a week which included the flat which is a room with a wash basin i shared a bathroom with three floors so when you got to have a bath you take a tin of vim with you so you scrub the bath up i didn't have a very nice studenthood thank you very much it was fucking horrible not not a good 60s for you, huh? No, I had no money, so I just ended up working all the time. So, like, I've talked to a few guys, you know, I think from your generation.

I've talked to, maybe Daltrey's a little younger than you. I've talked to Eric Idle. But I've talked to guys who sort of grew up in the bombs. Now, is that something that sort of defines your memory of your childhood? bombs. Now, is that something that sort of defines your memory of your childhood? We were closer then because we used to have a steel air raid shelter table in the scullery, which is like a kitchen. It was plate steel, and at night we'd sleep underneath it in case we got a direct hit. Really? And this is in London proper? Well, I lived in Ealing, and I was evacuated and I moved around.

I did Ealing, Newcastle, the Lake District, then back to London again because my dad was working. My dad became quite important and he was working on planning in what is now a museum in Admiralty Arch. He worked downstairs, and Churchill would come in every evening. They could smell him coming, and they could smell the cigar first on the air con. That air con was there. And they said, here he comes. And he used to come with a cigar, a glass of brandy, and a velvet siren suit. cigar a glass of brandy and a velvet a siren suit so your dad was but he was also uh in the in the war he was a soldier as well well he was uh he was he became brass pretty quick okay and so

post-war he was an acting brigadier general at the end of the war so you were like the english equivalent of an air force brat for a while yeah but my dad started off as a clerk in the shipping office in newcastle and when they were doing quite well because it was all to do with baltic shipping right and then one day the guy he worked for who was had owned racehorses but couldn't sign his own name so my dad every friday night they have a bottle of johnny walker there'd be a pile of checks this high yeah and this guy called lane fox say what's this for my dad said well and he'd read it to him he'd look at my dad's suspicion then he'd put his thumbprint and put across lane fox loved my dad like a son so he eventually gave him half the business so my father's doing quite well just before war broke out uh-huh one day war had done come and lane fox said to my dad i'm closing

up we're relying on the baltic it's all over dude sorry about that yeah and dad never saw him again dad joined the army and that was uh the beginning of a military career. Military career, yeah. We were in Germany. I went to Germany in 1947 on a troop ship. So 1947 till 52, then we returned to England. But I was in Frankfurt am Mainz, American zone, 1947. Then my dad worked in the Eger Fountain Building with Eisenhower who was they were planning the Marshall Plan you know the rebuilding of Germany

and so dad was involved in that wow so that's high level stuff yeah I mean and I think because I moved to 10 schools how many schools did you do two in my life yeah including college one two three four five four so i did 10 and never got to college i never got there because 10 schools you are completely confused with everything there's no connection between one school going to another and in those days you know parents didn't worry so much about their kids they'll say you'll be all right. You'll catch up. And I didn't know what the fuck was going on.

Yeah. My parents always had a great deal of faith in my ability to pull it together. But, you know, by the time I was about 23, it became problematic. Yeah. The favorite thing my mother used to say, pull yourself together. You'll be fine. Yeah. Yeah.

I think that's a British thing. My mother would just say, like, he'll be all right. yeah i think that's a that's a british thing my mother would just say like he'll be all right let's worry about the other one and it was just you and your two brothers no there were three uh there was my elder brother frank became a sea captain wow and there was about 28 he had a his ticket and he was headhunted by a Chinese company out of Singapore. So Frank went to Singapore and got a ship at 29, and he would do Singapore right up to Communist China. Oh, my God, that's exciting. Yeah.

How are you on boats? Never sick. No? Never sick. I love being by the sea. I don't like being on it or under it yeah i don't like not knowing what's under me it's uh no problematic so what what was keeping you together then during all this trial you know all this moving around i mean i imagine it was hard to maintain friendships and stuff i mean what were your well there weren't any there weren't any there was none um but what i did which i owe my career to i drew incessantly i was seriously drawing from the age

of about four or five whatever i could lay my hands on i was drawing with crayons or paint so by the time i was i went to kind of an army officer's boarding school in Wilhelmshaven, which is the submarine barracks for the Baltic, for the German Navy. And I went in there because my parents wanted to get rid of me, and they'd send me up to school. Sure. And my mother would say, my son, my son. I'd say, right, what are we going to do? I love going to boarding school.

And so I was doing big paintings. going to boarding school and so i was doing big paintings uh it's filled in for being extra particularly you know i i couldn't i think now today we would say i was dyslexic but i couldn't contain or remember anything and i couldn't concentrate but what i could do was i'd sit for hours and draw i'll paint so you you had a sense of uh of painting what kind of painting and you had a good sense of color and all that like just naturally oh no it was quite sophisticated um everything from the oil paint to my dad saw i was particularly you know interested and so he sent me in Hamburg to an army art school there's an art school in Hamburg certain people like to do art so I'll never forget when I entered the art school the smell of turpentine and paint and oil I love that and You know, in a funny kind of way, I was imagining I might become a painter.

Yeah. But by the time I got to serious art school, because I was so academically stupid, I went to art school at West Hartlepool College of Art in County Durham. And honestly, County Durham. And honestly, the sun rose for me. Metaphorically, I just adored school from that moment on. I did seven years at art school, four years at Hartlepool and three years at the Royal College. You loved it. More than I ended up doing five days, five night schools a week, just passionate. Consequently, I got in everywhere. I got in the Royal in everywhere i got in the roller cars i got in the academy i got in slayed mostly painting well it was a general my art called yes the focus would be painting uh and but i was i fancied graphic design because my aunt must had said to me

you know there's money in posters and i don't think he knew what he was saying. What he was saying was, there's going to be something called commercial TV, and that is going to be money in commercial advertising. It didn't exist then, but that's what he was talking about. And I caught the wave. So that was your entrance in. So you had this great sensibility visually. You could paint.

You could understand graphic design. And then it was time like, now let's make some short movies to sell shit. No, let's make some money. I was paid nothing. I was made at BBC. I ended up directing briefly one hour live TV. And after tax a week, I was earning 75 pounds a week. I said, fuck, this is something wrong here.

This is before you went into advertising? Yeah. And before you got out of art school, you were directing television? No, no, no, no, no, no. When I left art school, I finished with art school, having done a traveling scholarship in the U.S. 1961, 62. I was free. Then I came back to the U.S. I spent a year in the U.S. Doing what? Actually, 62. I was free. Then I came back to the U.S.

I spent a year in the U.S. Doing what? Actually, interesting. I worked with two guys in New York. I mean, I worked for them. It was two documentarians called Don Pennybaker and Richard Leacock. Right. Yeah.

And Richard Leacock was his cameraman. They were partners, and I talked my way and got a job there with my portfolio from the Royal College. They looked at the portfolio. They were a little baffled, but it was impressive. They said, do you want a job? I said, yeah. And so after seven years at art school, I was buying coffee and hamburgers

and making food at lunchtime. That's what i ended up doing my first year out what was penny baker working on when you were there i well i ended up doing a little bit of syncing up because they're doing multi cameras and araflex and i worked on on the polls so i was syncing up russians on jack kennedy beating hubert humphries on the in massachusetts i think is when jack was heading definitely towards being the president of the United States. And running Russia, it was like following Jesus Christ, people trying to touch him. It was amazing.

Then I worked on Nehru, the president of India. Then I worked on some amazing football game where they took two high schools as um it was the two big high schools they were red-hearted football turned out a lot of pros they shot that as well so the documentaries were amazing and adjusted my whole thinking to i want to go into film so that was it huh that was it was it also just hearing about you know multi-cameras i know you use a lot of cameras i mean there must have been uh and but were you a a fan of movies in any passionate way as a kid or other than passively beyond beyond i would uh when i was in hartlepool i made a deal with the local odian cinema which is like you know, you know, the chain. And I said, I will do all,

paint all the outside poster work and in the lobby if you give me free tickets for a year. So that's how we got to sit and watch movies, not sit and watch them round and round, but it was all Hollywood fodder. So my passion honestly was well. What does Hollywood fodder mean? I mean, at that period in film history, I mean, what does it mean? General material. And I adored anything that was from Hollywood. But I remember watching films with Yvonne DiCarlo, Danny Kaye, Rita Hayworth. And then the thing that really got me were Westerns.

Yeah. And I want to make a Western. I haven't done that yet. How have you not made a Western yet? Well, you know, the magic is getting shit on paper. And once you get the material onto script form, that's your blueprint. That is the hardest single thing to do, getting on paper. Well, it seems like, you know, if you frame it correctly with the right intellectual sort of context, you could look

at Thelma and Louise as a Western. Yes, correct. You could, yes, indeed. You could look at the Dulles as a Western. For sure, right, right. An insane reason for fighting the forgotten reason why. Yeah, so I want to do a Western for sure. Oh, that would be very exciting. Because I think like, you know, well, let me just start at this point, which is, you know, in the last month, I've seen two of your two most recent films. Yeah. The last duel I saw, and I just saw the Gucci movie. And there's a couple of questions in the sense of like,

you obviously had something for adam driver and knew his capabilities right fantastic right but like you know being that these are so different and they're both great movies i mean i think the last duel was spectacular i mean i loved it i loved it i don't know i don't know where the drop-off was in terms of how it was promoted or what happened. No, Disney did a fantastic promotion job, because unlike them, it somehow arrived at Fox and therefore Disney. But Disney, the guys, the bosses, loved the movie, because I was concerned it's not for them. But they really liked the movie, so their advertising publicity etc so it was excellent and i think what it boils down to where we've got today is the audiences who are brought up on these fucking cell phones the millennium do not want to ever be taught

anything except unless it's you're told it on the cell phone. This is a broad stroke, but I think we're dealing with it right now with Facebook, right? There's a misdirection, a mis-has-happened, where it's given the wrong kind of confidence to this latest generation, I think. But I feel like this movie was, you know, like a beautiful adult-themed movie that should have, you know, what should have brought younger people in

was obviously the excitement of the idea of the period and the action. Yeah, I mean, I agree with you, and particularly with Matt Damon, Ben Affleck, and Adam Driver, and this new girl called Jodie Comer. You know, that's the call you make. And that's the call that Fox made

that we all thought was a terrific script. And we made it. And, you know, you can't win all the time, but it's probably, as far as I'm concerned, when I made movies, I've never had one regret on any movie I've ever made, which is for a start. Nothing. Never.

No. And because I learned very early on to be your own critic. And the only thing you should really have an opinion about is what you just did. Walk away, make sure you're happy, and don't look back. That's me. Well, I mean, so when Blade Runner gets reconfigured and re-released and finally you kind of put your stamp of approval on the last one that that was not you're doing in terms of how that was. No, I got killed. I was I'm going to tell you this because I'll never forget it.

I made a film called Blade Runner. It's my third movie. Yeah. Which is pretty fucking good. Great movie. So my no, I was killed. I was killed by Pauline Kael. movie. Yeah. Which is pretty fucking good. Great movie. So my, no, I was killed. I was killed by Pauline Kael. Okay, okay.

Who didn't even meet me. She had never met me. And I suddenly read this article in the New Yorker, which is a very classy kind of, still is, right? Yeah. So my feeling is, I read it, and there's a four-page series of insulting, insult. The article is insulting.

So I framed it. It's in my office right now. And every time I glance at it, I never read criticism. I never read critique ever again. Because she was so wrong, I was just way ahead of her. Okay, but the movie's still great. What's that got to do with that movie? Well, it played disastrously.

It did not make any money whatsoever. I get it. But in terms of, I guess the root of my question was, you said you have no regrets, yet you did go back and redo that movie in a way, correct? Well, no, I went back in because I had a great idea for a second movie. And we should reignite what is now popular. I think it's number one in the Library of Congress, most requested.

So there's a TV show called The Dating Game or something, wasn't it? Sure, yeah. I don't watch that shit, okay? Sure. And I thought that this man Terrell, who probably has one of the two companies in the world that will run the world, this world will be run eventually by three corporations, I think. Sure.

Maybe two. We're already headed that way. Yeah. And his small part of his business and his ego was playing god so he liked to create humanoids and i didn't want to call them humanoids so we called them replicants yeah so the very first blade runner to me was a dating game in his arrogance he not only created people like roy batty and people who probably are working on trying to make Mars livable then. But actually, he went further than that, and he created a female and a person who did not know

he was a replicant, Harrison Ford. And what he was watching is he wanted to see, was watching is he wanted to see he wanted she is capable of having a child and harrison was designed as capable of having a child and so that became the formula for the next movie ah so that was the reason why you went back in oh yeah because i thought it's a great idea and it's you know rather than just a sequel it was a kind of interesting legitimate idea because it works hand in hand side by side with today's technology because that that is happening today not only that but metaphorically it works in terms of you know who are we really and what what defines our reality yeah yes yes yes so in these most recent movies and what i'd like to talk to you about is just that when you

have say okay so you see the last duel you see the script you you know and and it when you look at when you take on a project like i have to assume there's an initial reaction of something that you feel that you're that's going to justify you spending however long it's going to take to to to manifest this vision right and it has to be fairly simple right from the get go in my mind. So because all these movies that you do, they're different. They're not, you know, they're all Ridley Scott movies. Unrelated.

Right. Unrelated. So I have to assume that when you take in the material, something, probably a singular idea makes you go, oh, fuck yes. Yeah. Okay. So what was that for the last duel matt i'd had a good time with on martian that was it and he called me up saying oi i know you've already done a film called

the duelists which i we loved a lot he said but this is based on a very good book, which is an encapsulation of the trial records from 1360. It's about a woman who is purported to have been raped, and she claims it was rape, but the protagonist claims it was complicit. And I said, you know, I'm already in. It's such a great piece of, it's a great singular idea that somehow touches base today yeah of course it does me too right and the argument would be we didn't make it for that reason because we just thought the singular central idea was amazing that she's accused somebody of this and was brave enough to do it at the time because if she was proved wrong she would be punished horribly she'd be burnt alive so that was so that was the driver that was the engine

the engine you need a great central nut yeah um thelma louise was an epic goodbye story of two women who who are becoming made themselves completely independent of any opinion right and therefore it became epically beautiful because i felt felt it was the last drive it was the last time together so you know i i can't help trying to make things uh visually as spectacular as i can that's what i do so. So with The Last Duel, the construction of it, this is ultimately a feminist-themed movie, right? And that's not something...

I think with Alien... Well, you know, you do Alien, you do Thelma and Louise, but people forget there's one very good film done with Demi Moore called G.I.J. Yeah, I was going to mention that one. Yeah.

And she that is the definitive challenge for a female to try to enter that part of the army, which is the male bastion of of, you know, of masculinity. And she wanted to be part of that because she felt she had something to add. So what compels you to do more so than any other male director or at the level you're at these stories of strong women? Probably because I respected my mom. My mom was five foot tall. My mom was five foot tall. She insisted. She was actually four foot eleven. She insisted she was five feet.

And she brought up three sons because my dad was away a lot on me. And so she was both the male and the female in the household and was a tough guy. And we respected her. And I've never forgotten that. She taught us respect. And we respected her. And I've never forgotten that. She taught us respect. And I thought that with The Last Duel that, I mean, each segment of that movie, it was a profound movie because I didn't know anything about it going in.

So I'm watching it, you know, and from the beginning, I'm like, I'm not a huge period piece kind of guy, but I'm like, here we go. Where's this going to go? But then by the second chapter, I'm like, what the fuck is happening? And then, like, you start to, as a man man question your own perception of the events of your life right well the the choice to do to borrow a little from rashomon where you're playing the story through really two and a half times you're seeing seeing her version, you're seeing Adam Driver's version, but you're also getting Matt Damon's version because he, as soon as he hears this rape, he assumes that it's her fault. Yeah. And, you know, the acting on behalf of all of them through the different points of view

was kind of astounding. Well, you know, also, because Adam Driver, in a funny kind of way has to play nearly the same role and that's why we had the investment in we had a glimpse of a couple of orgies the reason for that was not titillation but was to say in that room of one orgy anyone in that room is happy to be there and will comply with everything so that's male and female so it's saying this was a norm and yeah right it's okay yeah and so and yet she wasn't she was very traditional in that sense adam driver assumed a lot which is completely wrong yeah and i i thought that you know matt damon he's always great but he's always great, but it was a very surprising...

Well, he's playing a bad guy. He said, I'm going to be horrible. I said, you sure are. So I gave him a scar and a terrible haircut because it's more comfortable to have short hair under a helmet. But the one line that summarizes who he was when she said, a man came to our house. Who was it?

It was Legree. And what happened? He raped me. And the reaction from Karush. Right. Yeah, I don't want him to be the last one. No, no. Worse than that, he said, why does this man never stop?

Right. Fucking with me. Yeah. Then he said, I won't be the last one on the bed. I mean, it was disgusting. Matt embraced that. That's what he wanted to be. Yeah. A real malignant meathead. Yes, exactly. And that's why we showed glimpses of battles to show he was a very dead. It's kind of bloody viking right he's crazy and that's who cruz was he would go to war because he would be paid by the king to it's to support his estate right no i thought it was uh historically just uh uh the whole thing was great

yeah i was just thrilled i'm glad you liked it thrilled to watch it. So then, like, you know, and now we're here. Now I saw House of Gucci. And, you know, and again, you know, you look at that material. And also, like, you chose Driver, right? Oh, well, I cast everything. I always cast everybody. But I found myself completely enthralled. I found it compelling.

I found that, you know know i didn't know the story of gucci it's almost like a it's almost an aristocratic story of moneyed royalty uh set in a modern era right there's a political battle family battles but what what was the one thing in that story that made you go like okay i'm going to spend a year on this shit? Well, I knew that my wife produces films as well. Yeah. Never with me. She'd done one with Will Smith about contact in football where you get brain damage.

Yeah, I saw that. It's good. Yeah. And she did something called Felt with Liam Neeson. Years ago, she did Trust and Assault. But she's been carrying this idea for years. And I would... The Gucci idea? Oh, yeah, 20 years.

Huh. 20 years. And I'd help her out by... It wasn't really for me, but I'd help her out by suggesting writers and people that I might know. Right. So we actually put, as a company, a fair amount of money

behind four or five pieces of script. They never landed. Not one script got it until one day I met this young guy, Roberto Bentolini, who was new, and he'd written something small for us and i thought wow that's kind of fresh and interesting yeah and i said you want to read this thing tell me what you think so we gave him the last two pieces of material uh the gucci script and he went wow it's it's i know the story because he is italian and he came up uh and he came with six weeks had a script I went Christy he hit it because it had to be the right balance of driven by the characters but it's within a fashion industry

and that's a hard thing to you know you can lean one way or the other and it suddenly becomes a fashion movie or suddenly becomes I didn't want to lose the fashion aspect, but the powerful characters are like, frankly, Medici or the Borgias. It's exactly that. So we somehow got that where everyone is tricky as shit, and yet you've got to to when you watch a film you have to be at some level not like them but at least be amused by them yeah and i knew that all these characters here were not likable but the cast was so unbelievably good they were really as musing as shit so so it was in a way you know what i said

earlier it was the sense of i mean you'd like a historical story and the medicis and the borgias those those are infinitely interesting you know they went on for generations so yes so that's what spoke to you really huh yeah exactly it's a modern it's a modern Medici. And the problem is an outsider comes in and makes a mistake of once she marries royalty, she assumes she is royal. She's not. When she says, I am a Gucci, she says, no, you're not. You married a Gucci. That's the crack in the jug.

That will never repair itself. From that moment on, you may as well call it the day the character i think that really was what made it such a great movie is that you know your understanding and the screenwriters understanding that you're dealing with you know family intrigue of of an aristocratic royalty uh that that was never quite framed that way, right? So when you spend so much time with that buffoon of a brother, of the cousin, you know, initially you're like, can this guy not act? And then you realize, like, no, he's a clown.

So, you know, like, and that's the way that goes. There's always that one kind of loose cannon, loose screw in this family. And you got an amazing performance out of Pacino, who's always pretty good. But I think he really did something with this. Yeah. Well, then don't forget, Jared Leto is underneath all that makeup. That was Jared Leto? That's Jared Leto, dude.

It's amazing. I had no idea. Amazing. Holy shit. I'm sitting there amazing. I had no idea. Amazing. Holy shit. I'm sitting there looking. I'm going, how come I've never seen this guy before? I'm an idiot. Like, see, this is a guy.

Yeah. Well, hello. He copied who this guy is. We copied him. It was great. The hair, the paunch, everything. And he really believed, sadly, believed he was talented. He really believed, sadly, believed he was talented.

And, of course, everyone was embarrassed to say, well, you're an embarrassment, and that's where it begins. And Lady Gaga was, like, spectacular. Hello. I mean, obviously, we knew that casting her, but were you, on a daily basis, surprised by her work? Well, when I met her a little bit initially, and don't forget, I'd seen A Star is Born, which I think Bradley and she did a great job.

And also, she's a perfect build. Patricia Gucci is about 5'1", was a bit of a bombshell showstopper, was working middle class. Her dad was transportation, so probably then he was connected, I would think. Sure, sure. If you're in transport in Italy, you've got to be connected.

So there was a little bit of money, but you definitely come under the expression of new rich, right? So she would play the parties, hope to find an appropriate guy who ideally would have money. She was a bit of a gold digger. Yeah. And one day she met somebody,

Maurizio, she had no idea who it was. I think she was more impressed by the fact he was so polite and gentlemanly that attracted her to him. Then she realizes that Gucci, she went, what? So that's where she went from. Also, I do believe the initial stage, they fell in love for sure. Yeah, I mean, I feel that too.

And I also, like, I thought it was very interesting. That's sort of like the air who has to step up, though he's disinterested. And then he does turn out to be a little bit shallow and kind of a dumb, dumb wise and i thought driver did a great job of that and i knew nothing about it and just the straight you know that the story of the family and whatever's coming is so compelling and it's not a story i knew going in and but also like because it's so compelling you you kind of get excited about the resurrection of the House of Gucci by Tom Ford. Like, I never thought I'd be. All I know is, like, you know, I don't own many expensive clothes,

but I went and got a Tom Ford suit, which cost me a fucking fortune. I'm like, oh, that guy's the guy that did that. Well, yeah, well, Ford. But the guy who was very smart throughout it all was De Soleil. The lawyer. The lawyer. Yeah. That's Mr. Houston. Yeah. who was very smart throughout it all was de soleil the lawyer by the lawyer yeah that's mr houston yeah and and he sat there watching this man who was the natural heir gradually just self-destruct right and during the self-destruction he realized he better hang in there and i believe that this may be true or not so i'm

going to say it may be fiction yeah i i heard way back when when you're researching it that de sille had been smart enough to put in five million dollars of his own money early on and then was responsible for bringing in introducing tom ford to gucci and so from a company, let's say, worth on the stock market a certain point with massive debt, say 400 million, overnight it became a billion-dollar company over that Tom Ford fashion show. Wild. So I talked to Steven Soderbergh not long ago, I talked to Steven Soderbergh not long ago, who is sort of defiantly against having a specific style. When you think about yourself in terms of as you approach each movie, are you similar in that, that you just respect the material and then decide? Yeah.

Black Hawk Down, we probably broke in North Africa first before anybody. So I didn't know going on Blackhawk. It's kind of a little bit dodgy, the ground there where you're going into Saleh. And I'm taking over a town. So that was a specific style. I used a Polish cameraman for that, funnily enough, called Wladimir Idziak, who is very interesting. And he said, I only shoot one camera and I hate sunshine. So we go to Morocco and I use 11 cameras.

And did you know going in, like, see, I consider that along with maybe Three Kings, Hurt Locker and American Sniper to be defining modern war pictures. Like you reconfigured more than any of those with that story. I imagine the book as well. But it must have been in your mind that like, this is what war is now. And it's not about country. Yeah, exactly right. But it's, you know, that was one moment. I shouldn't say one, but that was a moment when, a moment, when the United States went in.

They had gone in to stop genocide and to mug a tissue. And the opening scene lays it out with Sam Shepard, who I love to death. It was fantastic. Great. Talking to the guy who was representing the bad man there to say, this is not, this is genocide, Mr. So-and-so. So we're here to stop this fucking nonsense. And they were unsuccessful.

They didn't get the guy. But Bill Clinton withdrew them immediately because he could see it could lead to Vietnam if he didn't watch it. I think he was scared to death of getting so sucked in, you can't get out of East Africa. And it was a secret mission. Yes, exactly.

No, he was right to withdraw. But it made him very unpopular with the army, I think. Right. But, you know, it did sort of explore these ideas of the army that, you know, this is a corporate undertaking on behalf of business interests in the United States. And this is not about patriotism or anything else. This is a job we do. Exactly right. Well, it's a job I used to think we did.

I don't want to really go down this route because I'm very dismayed at what's happening to the United States. You are too. Me too. What, are you kidding me? It's like, you know. I mean, dude, we cannot let this go. You cannot let democracy slide off the table.

Are you fucking kidding? Yeah, fascism is organized and shameless, and it's rising. Yep. And we'll be the only country in the world that has had it, had the idea of democracy. Think about it. England kind of, but, you know, England is insignificant by definition of its size

and its firepower and importance. But, you know, my God, my God, my God. It has to stop. Yeah, well, I'm with you on that. Yeah, it's a very scary time. And, you know, it becomes harder and harder to understand how you can get people. And, you know, I don't it becomes harder and harder to understand how, you know, how you can get people engaged in, you know, taking their brains back and trying to understand what democracy entails. Yeah. Yeah. But what I'm staring at is a lot of intelligent people on the other side simply convincing themselves that these lies are the truth

that's what's crazily insane right they know it's not true but over through repetition and through rationalization and no i think they i think they're doing it to make sure they get back in. And that's really sick. Craven. That's sick. Yeah, yeah. I don't know what to do about it. Ridley, do you? Go live in France. Go live in England. How about Ireland? Why not? Ireland's

great. I made the last two in Ireland. It's great. You loved it, right? Well, I loved it, but it fucking rains every day. Oh. Now, going back to what we were talking about before, you're working on a Napoleon movie, right? I'm shooting in 13 weeks. So now, with the world, with democracy hanging in the balance, is there some way you find an outlet for that in this story of Napoleon that you were pulling together? No. He is both.

Tell the truth um he's both genius bad guy good guy what he invented french law today still stands for fuck's sake they're still using a lot of the stuff he did they've got the roads he fucking planted today yeah so you know the reason why he built all the straight lines down the champs-Élysées because he could put cannons there and literally put down any revolt by just firing down the avenues. So he is a fascinating, I can't call him a monster at all. He's a fascinating man who I think was started by wanting to do the right thing by bringing France into line and bringing it back onto an equilibrium and shifting

it away from the idea of the revolution because the revolution was much needed it was in desperate need of change and then once he got in the seat suddenly becomes the benevolent dictator then he becomes the not so benevolent dictator so he adjusted so whatever that is he's one hell of a guy you're right well i think like i also see that in a lot of a lot of the films even in house of gucci that you know when you've got the opportunity to explore the arc of a life, you're going to figure that out. Yes.

I've got the best act in the world to do it right now is Joaquin Phoenix. Yeah, you like that guy. He's playing Napoleon. I love him to death. When Joaquin comes to the table, it's a free-for-all with me and him, and I think we kind of wrestle it out and come to where we want to be because he is a very good intuition for himself he's brilliant brilliant racking brilliant was that was that experience did you have that experience with him on gladiator as well

oh yeah um because you know as he says when i take anything on he's you know he's gets intimidated by anything but that's that's his engine the engine is that the insecure is what drives him you know yeah it's the same as i do i'm insecure about doing it in a point but i know i'll get it right i'm fucking better otherwise i gotta find a new day job and well i mean how do you where do you i mean you make big movies dude where do you find all this energy is it just you know you don't want to you just want to keep engaged no i mean i that's the way i'm built you know i mean i i still uh after all these years it's kind of primitive but it's great because I storyboard every movie.

I've now got storyboard this thick on Napoleon Bonaparte. I'm drawing everything so I can really draw. So I draw close-ups, medium shots, wide shots, and I work the scene out on paper before I get there. What are those behind you? Is that the movie on the boards? Well, these are the running order of the board where we were i was in here with joaquin last week and we were re going through stuff it's always good because when you go through something you always find something else so when i'm boarding i also find i get an idea because it's as if i'm filming on paper and it's it's a great i couldn't do it any other way because it proves to

be incredibly economical so for instance on gucci our board is gucci we ended up two weeks on the schedule yeah which is you know several million dollars under budget i tend to end up on the budget because when i come into it i know exactly what we're going to do so that's it so that is where you know the the sort of experience with with commercials and and also but more depth in in deeply the experience with uh your ability to draw and and see story and even everything everything so i i own everything to drawing right seriously so Seriously. So that's how you stay, you know, efficient on time? Oh, completely. I know exactly.

I could start Napoleon on Monday. Huh. My friend Kit has this theory that in a lot of your movies, you like things to fall out of the sky, like flowers, water, rain. Well, I like to fill every frame with something. Even in Alien, there was sort of some liquid always kind of falling on and then oh yeah well harry dean stanton walked into the landing leg room and he's looking up and he goes jonesy oh yeah and uh it's water and somebody said okay what's water doing in the landing room i said condensation you twat exactly all right i

said yes so like like what does does the the fact that you bring in like all these things on time and under budget i mean i imagine that because here's a question look man you made 1492 it didn't do well you didn't make a great movie yeah great movie of course but you don't seem to be stoppable in the sense my theory is is that like you're so goddamn good and you you do you show up with the work and you do it on time you do it on budget and everything looks great was ever a time where you know there was a risk that you might not work because of a of a box office failure? Yeah. Well, I had the duelists, they made seven prints. It got, the British, became the British award at Cannes, and I got a prize at Cannes, and then, you know,

had a smaller company like Focus or, dare I even mention, Weinstein Company being existing there, they could have taken that and known what to do with it. Paramount, to be fair, did not know what to do with a Napoleonic film. Right. So they made Seven Prince. So that was an $800,000 failure. Didn't make any money.

It cost 800 grand. And I got no fee, by the way. And that was the completion bonus. So I thought, fuck me, welcome to the film industry. Yeah. So then I did Alien. And Alien was very, very, very, very successful. Then I did Blade Runner.

That was a fucking disaster. Yeah. Then I did Legend with a 20-year-old Tom Cruise. So I was doing Disney movies 25 years before Disney. Yeah. And that was a failure. I was doing Disney movies 25 years before Disney. Yeah.

And that was a failure. And somebody said to me, you know, why don't you do films about normal people and normal subjects? I went, shit, maybe they're right. So I then went down a road to much lower budget. I did a very nice little movie called White Skull. Great movie, White Skull. I did Black Rain with Michael Douglas. I think fucking great, Andy Garcia. That's a good movie.

Yeah, I mean, Michael Douglas is always good. Yeah, and then gradually started to climb up. Suddenly, I was going to produce Thelma and Louise, and I offered Thelma and Louise to five directors. They all turned it down, saying I got a problem with the women. I said, that's the whole point, you dope. And so I said, you know what? I was interviewing an actress for Thelma and Louise.

And funny enough, it was Michelle Pfeiffer. She said, I don't think this is quite right for me, but why don't you come to your senses and you direct it? I went, go. And I thought, why not? I'm going to have a go. So I had a go. And then that suddenly started to create new liftoff.

So then we're moving into Hannibal, you know, the whole thing. And 1492. Well, I love 1492. i love the experience with gerard depardieu as well and you know i didn't care that he couldn't speak good english i didn't give a shit he's so good who cares yeah who the fuck cares right and gladiator like i used to watch that movie like two three times a year just to you know feel good about life. But did you like, I love Kingdom of Heaven. The Crusades, yes.

The Crusades. And the Kingdom of Heaven was taking Muslim and infidel together in Morocco, and I had a fatwa on me, and I had to walk around with four guys who were Moroccan to protect me because I thought, thought Jesus why and they because the film in fact is in support of Salahuddin who was one of the great leaders military men politicians and philosophers yeah isn't it but didn't you go back and do a director's cut of that one yes the the cut was and we removed about 17 minutes of the story the princess of jerusalem which i shouldn't have done i was very wrong to do

but the studio insisted okay they said it it's the film stops for 70 and they were dead fucking wrong it's about how her brother had uh leprosy and had to wear a silver mask. This is true. The Christian, if you like, or infidel, we are the infidels, leader of Jerusalem had to wear a mask to hide his face. Right. And then his sister had a child, and the sister's child, they discovered one day the child felt no pain he should have

burnt himself he felt no pain and so they tell him this is the beginning of leprosy so she did not want her child to go through what her brother had gone through right and she actually euthanized him so it was tragic so. So you put that back in. Yes. It's a great, when we have Jerusalem being invaded by Salahuddin, who took it back, and then the Muslims wanted blood, because what we had done to the Muslims was just, oh, Richard Coeur d'Alene was terrible. oh with richard cordelino was terrible and saladin either i think was ultimately a marvelous politician realized history said no he said we're going to let him go they said then we got to tax them when they leave and he said they have no money saladin paid the tax for each person so saladin ended up bankrupt you love these historical stories we we we we are living through history right now we're going through our ultimate

stupidity now by not getting double visor what are you fucking moron yeah oh no for sure i mean and people realize by the time you're 23, you've already got the equivalent of 16 injections anyway. Yeah, no, believe me. But I do like I don't know. I don't know how these people don't want to put a vaccine in their body, but they'll let their brains be fucked into. Dude, this should have been over a year ago. Oh, I know. Once you get control of it you still gotta wear a

mask for another year you gotta this is a special one this one oh yeah and and we have a special kind of stupidity happening too oh so now when you do when you do something like matchstick man is that just for fun is that a palate cleanser i mean no i loved it because I was going to go and do Tripoli with Russell Crowe. And something happened in my family. Somebody became quite ill. So I refused to leave. So I closed the film down. And I thought I must stay in Los Angeles because very close to me family.

And I stayed here. And while I was here, my wife once Saturday morning said, read this script. It's called Matchstick Men. I think you'll find it very interesting. And I loved it to death. And it was a great little film.

It's kind of a fun, dark movie. Yeah. Yeah. And Nick Cage is terrific. He's like, you know, I love the guy know I love the guy you know what I love him I just saw that movie pig that new that movie oh is that I haven't seen that is it good I loved it it was just so good to see him in in in good form as an actor and there's Sam Sam Rockwell I had in that as well yeah I know that guy he's a good guy and. And what a thing, though. You don't know what's going on until he's in hospital.

And he goes, hello, gets out of bed, and he's on the roof of a car park. I loved it. Good times. And also, like, American Gangster, I think, is one of the great underrated Russell Crowe performances. Russell Crowe's amazing in that movie. Russell Crowe's amazing each time. Yeah. He's just one of those guys.

You know, he was great in a thing called Body of Lies. Yeah. And he plays, he said, how do you want to set him? I want you to put on a bit of weight like Bill Clinton. Yeah. But like American Gangster, that's another one of those movies where you've got, you know, you're covering, what, 40 years? Yeah. And Denzel. I mean, the two of them, I mean, Denzel, wow, man. Well, he's, I think he's one of the best actors we've got.

What is it that you think, why do you, what is it that he does that makes you say that? Well, he's perpetually, I'm going to say this, I think he gets very insecure when he's doing a role. And he once said so many words to me, saying, you know, when I do a film, man, I'm kind of showing, exposing myself to everybody. It's kind of intimidating. Yeah. Because he gets angry, you know.

Yeah. But I like that. i like that i like that that fuel he's got great fuel i did one movie with my brother and i was at the i was at the royal college my first there was no film school so in the cupboard in the art department was a bolex a little clockwork and i oh it's a new camera can i borrow it you know what if you want to buy it you've got to bring me a script so i took him a script the following week i wrote a script and i took the script the following week he went oh wow okay so i got the camera for the summer holiday yeah with a light meter and an instruction book and

some filters and a tripod. And I said to my brother, my brother then was a very lie in bed on a Saturday morning kind of kid, which is the antithesis of what he became. I said, get up, we're going to go make a movie. He said, what? I said, get up, we're going to make a movie. We've got dad's car. We made a movie in six weeks called Boy and a Bicycle.

And that was the only time you guys worked together on a movie? Yeah, you know, and what's weird is neither of us knew that we were planning the life ahead of us, what we would do, because Tony would later do Top Gun, but at least he was caught in the ground. Yeah, he was great. He was great. Sorry for your loss there.

Yeah. But that movie, American movie american gangster that's another one i'll watch it every time every time i i like i still like to flip around and start movies in the middle i don't give a shit and almost all your movies i'll watch them from the middle from the end i don't care you know that my favorite movie and that is the time that way like he's in the cafe and he says just stay here and he goes out all his brothers are watching he goes down the street and Idris Elba is standing there saying hey what are you

going to do shoot me Frank go on shoot me Frank from all these people and he just goes boom and shoots him on the spot what happened was I said to Idris listen when he put the gun to him he had lean on the gun because by the way this is a gun with a solid barrel.

There is no aperture. I would never risk it. But when you pull the trigger, there's a recoil. And there's no blank, nothing. So I said, I want you to lean on the gun. And he pulled the trigger, and it goes, bam. Idris thought he'd been shot and dropped to the side. I've been shot and dropped to the side. Whoa.

I've been shot. You've created so many, you know, truly memorable bits of business. And The Martian, which we didn't get to talk about that much, is an amazing movie. And you seem to work with just the most amazing actors. It's just really great. Well, I try, you know, working with actors, it's a partnership. Sure. I try and make it a friendship and a partnership. That's very important. Once you do that, I worked five times with Russell. Once you do that, both of you can say anything you think. You have to be able to say what you think, otherwise you can't move. Well,

that's a good way to end. I really appreciate you talking, Ridley. It's great. Thank you, man. Good to see you. Take care of yourself. Good luck with... Have we met before? Huh?

Have me and you met? Have we met before? We have not, but have fun with Napoleon. Break a leg. It's a great script. Great script. I enjoy all the movies. It was really an honor to talk to you.

Take care of yourself. Thank you, man. There you go. That was good. He loves his own movies, that guy. And he's a great director. He should love them. Did I mention I'm eating a lot of cookies?

Ruglet. Babka. Huh? Babka. I'm going to babca some guitar right now. Thank you. Boomer lives. Monkey and Lafonda and cat angels. Boomer lives. Monkey and Lafonda and Cat Angels. That was one.

That came out of nowhere. Cat Angels everywhere. You can get anything you need with Uber Eats. Well, almost almost anything. So no, you can't get an ice rink on Uber Eats. Well, almost almost anything. So no, you can't get an ice rink on Uber Eats. But iced tea and ice cream? Yes, we can deliver that. Uber Eats.

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