WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1285 - Jennifer Hudson

Episode Date: December 6, 2021

Jennifer Hudson didn't start singing with her eyes open until she was 19 years old. That's not a metaphor. Jennifer tells Marc how she was so afraid to sing in public, the only way she could do it was by closing her eyes. They talk about what it was like to finally feel brave enough to open them and the doors that also opened up when she did. Jennifer explains the centrality of church in her life, how faith helped guide her through unspeakable tragedy, and why she got Aretha Franklin's blessing to portray her in the movie Respect. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store

and ACAS Creative. Lock the gates! Alright, let's do this. How are you, what the fuckers? What the fuck, buddies? What the fucknicks? What's happening? I'm Marc Maron.

Yes. Yes, I have a cold. How's it going? Yes, you're right. I do sound different. It happens. But to be honest with you, has not happened in a couple of years.

Since before the pandemic, it has not happened. I've not had a illness like this, a cold. I thought I had COVID 900 times, but never like nothing that locked, that kind of got hold of me. I got like an old school cold, old timey cold right now. But I mean, I had to figure out whether it was COVID or not, of course, at the beginning, but things synced up, things worked out. And I got to be honest with you, I'm a little nostalgic for the days when you'd get a cold and you didn't have to wonder whether or not you had a disease a plague that if you brought out into the world kill could kill

immunocompromised people or old people or unvaccinated people though that last category i don't know it's a that's a little harsh but please understand it was framed as a joke but yeah i got a fucking cold old school head stuffy scratchy voice throat hurt sweating in the night it's been going around jennifer hudson's on the show today uh how do you you know jennifer hudson i mean she was in the movie respect with me she was in the she won an oscar for dream girls uh she's done a lot of amazing Grammy Award winning records. And she's a Weight Watchers spokesperson. And I'm not belittling that.

We talk about it. We talk about the Weight Watchers. I told her I miss the old-timey Weight Watchers. Straight up points, man. I still have my points calculator. Because I know a lot of you are like, Mark, but you never had a weight problem. Fine, but I have an eating disorder, which one of the symptoms is thinking I have a weight problem. And managing my weight, controlling my food intake was important to me and still is.

And the way I learned how to do it was on the old timey Weight Watchers. Yeah, the points, the point calculator. But but she's here and it's exciting. Here's some other stuff. I got more stuff to tell you. If you want your WTF merch delivered before Christmas this Wednesday, December 8th is the last day to guarantee shipping by the 24th. Go to pod swag dot com slash WTF or click on the merch tab at wtfpod.com. Also at wtfpod.com, you can click on the tour page

and get links for all of my shows on the This May Be The Last Time tour next year. There's a lot of dates and there's going to be more coming. And also, let me remind you, for fuck's sake, make sure you're at the right ticket outlet. Just go to the links at WTFpod.com slash tour.

I get all these DMs from people like $300 for tickets. It's like, no, that's a scalper site. And they've gotten very clever about drawing you to them. You think you're at the right place and you're not. Do yourself a favor. Just go to WTFpod.com slash tour. Use those links so you don't get into that like, oh, there's no tickets left that aren't $900. I don't charge that much.

I'm a cheap date, man, you know, in comparison to some of my peers. A couple other things. Our friends at the Paris Theater in New York City, who were very nice to host us for a live wtf last month they're doing a screening of the french connection in 35 millimeter this thursday december 9th they were inspired to do this based on our talk with jason bailey about new york city movies so if you like that and you're in new york go watch one of the greatest new york city movies on the big finally, people, there's a nationwide fundraiser to help raise money for the comedy

community. The pandemic knocked a lot of performers off the tracks, and Comedy Gives Back was set up to provide a safety net of medical treatment, financial assistance, and more. This Thursday, December 9th, comedy clubs and venues all across the country are participating in the Comedy Gives Back Laughing for Good initiative. And you can help too. No matter how big or small, you can make a donation by texting LAUGH to 707070. Got it?

And go to Comedy Gives Back to learn more. All right? So that's that. So I got this cold. Yeah, I might have given some people the cold. But here's what happened. So Wednesday, I get a COVID test, like the good kind, the PCR test, because I got to do an event Wednesday night. I was moderating a panel, a four-year consideration panel.

Then the next day, I woke up with a cold, and I tested myself again at home with the antigen test and I was negative again so it's definitely just an old-timey cold but I had to go through some stuff and I might have given someone a cold uh moderating that and I'm sorry but I felt it was important to be there because to be honest with you even watching that pilot again at the event Reservation Dogs is is one of the few truly groundbreaking shows that I remember seeing in my lifetime. Seriously. I mean, that whole world and the total lack of representation that indigenous people have in any real kind of humane and human way is very real. And this is the first time almost any of us have seen it handled so beautifully with humor and sadness and pathos.

But it's just, it is groundbreaking because it gives indigenous people a voice that just never existed before this in mainstream culture, in pop culture. And I just can't uh it just moves me to fucking tears every time i see it i watch that fucking pilot episode again and i only saw the last 10 minutes and i was choked up just because of how beautiful it is that there's this whole world of humanity in our own country that has been marginalized and attempted annihilation

through genocide at one point in our history and now has at least this one show that is a beautiful and honest representation of that way of life and it just it moves me and i was i was thrilled to be part of the panel and it was good to see and meet some of those actors good to see sterling again but but needless to say because i've've already said it, I got a cold. That's where we were going with this. So I've been fighting it for a couple of days. But then I fucking go and, you know, am I the asshole? I guess I'm the asshole.

I don't want to cancel my comedy spots. I was straight with people. I'm like, I got that cold. And everyone was like, well, you had it, Jeselnik. I had it. Chris Spencer, I had it. I'm like, all right. So it's been going around, well, you had it, Jeselnik. I had it. Chris Spencer, I had it. I'm like, all right. So it's been going around.

But I didn't want to cancel my spots because people go. People go to see me. Even though it's just a 15-minute spot at the comedy store, people are like, I was only in town for a night, and I went to the store, and you canceled. And I don't know. Why does that bother me? It bothers me.

So I go. And I had last night, or the night before last, Saturday night, I had two amazing sets where I did a lot of riffing because I was kind of in a funk. Not really in a funk, but I've been having some issues lately. And my buddy, Dean Del Rey, fucking called me out publicly. You'll hear it. He called me out, and it hear it he called me out and it was emotional and I'll explain it to you in a second you do you want to do you even want to know I've been a little

fucking you know a little edgy angry talking shit you know pushing buttons like I can feel the tone of my stand up shifting in places. And, you know, I was just like pushing everybody away. And so I talked to Dean the other day and it's on the Dark Fonzie, which will be on tomorrow. And I just I kind of broke down. He was like, dude, you sound like you used to sound when you started WTF. And I'm like, fuck, man. And I've known this was going on. I knew I was getting snappy.

I knew I was talking shit. You know, I knew I was starting to feel like, you know, vindicated and righteous about shit I was saying about people. That's totally unnecessary. Kind of snapping out at people feeling, you know, justified in that anger. And the truth be told, like, you know, it was concerning me. I knew I had to pull back. And I haven't been hung up on this but it's just a reality you know the the unfolding of grief is long and weird my dad's sick and my mom's getting older and you know this is just life but i don't talk to many people about it you know know, and I got, you know, I went and saw my therapist a couple of times, but like, I can't underestimate the impact of the last year,

the tragedy of the last year for all of us. But I just, you know, I do feel myself closing down. I do feel my heart closing up. And I can't make an argument for opening it sometimes. And that's crazy because that means like all the good stuff that you get when you open your heart to people or just open it to receive things, all that stuff,

you shut that out, then all you get is anger and either you shove that inside of yourself or you fucking push it out into the world. Now, obviously comedy is a fine place for me to push out anger into the world, but even that, there's some jokes I'm doing where I'm doing them and the tone of them and the subject matter.

It's like they make me kind of feel like I want to cry. But I think they're hilarious. That's the problem. You know, it's like that same thing I talked about before that my resentment of human beings is relative and equal to my empathy for them. And look, you know, people are garbage and the world is ending. Happy holidays. Those are the cards I'm having made. But it's true, you know, I've got to figure out a way through or back or something.

And I think just talking about it with Dean was okay. And talking about it here now is okay. But it's like one of these simple things, especially if you're in the fucking recovery racket. It's like, I'm not going to meetings regularly. I'm not talking to other alcoholics as much as I used to. And I'm stubborn about that. You know, I'm like, look, man,

I'm fucking 22 years into this fucking thing. I don't, how much do I need? Like, that's the tone. That's the tone. I'm all, look, man, I'm fucking 22 years into this fucking thing. How much do I need? That's the tone. That's the tone. I'm all right, man. I'm fucking fine. What's your problem?

Do you have a problem with me? Is there a problem with me? That's the weird thing is that tone in general and bullying too, that tone is like a cry for help of some kind. But my issue is I'll push people away to see if I can get them back but i only let them back so far i'm sort of emotionally crippled and you know kind of accepting and receiving the love properly so it's like it's kind of a tough place to be and you know it's now like when is this going to happen when am i going to do it when am i going to fucking it's not even a matter of manning up or doing the work or whatever yeah i feel it right under the surface you know when your heart's

clenched up it's always been that way but i've been like harboring a lot of like resentments and i don't need to be i'm good and i've been very judgmental and critical of people and like talking shit and i don't need to. It's not necessary. Kind of feels good though. Talking shit's one of my hobbies. Not a great hobby. Okay, you guys, here we go. Jennifer Hudson. Jennifer Hudson played Aretha Franklin in Respect.

I worked with her in that movie. That movie is now available to buy or rent on digital platforms. And it's also available on DVD and Blu-ray. And I was finally able to get her over here to talk. And this is me talking to Jennifer Hudson. It's hockey season, and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything.

So, no, you can't get an ice rink on Uber Eats. But iced tea, ice cream, or just plain old ice? Yes, we deliver those. Goaltenders, no. But chicken tenders, yes. Because those are groceries, and we deliver those too. Along with your favorite restaurant food, alcohol, and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now.

For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. Be honest. When was the last time you thought about your current business insurance policy? Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. Be honest. When was the last time you thought about your current business insurance policy? If your existing business insurance policy is renewing on autopilot each year without checking out Zensurance, you're probably spending more than you need.

That's why you need to switch to low-cost coverage from Zensurance before your policy renews this year. Zensurance does all the heavy lifting to find a policy, covering only what you need, and policies start at only $19 per month. So if your policy is renewing soon, go to Zensurance and fill out a quote. Zensurance. Mind your business. You knew I played guitar. We used to sit around in the studio. Remember when everyone was playing? Well, you know, you were so in it.

And everybody was a musician. Everyone's hanging around playing. Yeah, but to see all of these, because I want a guitar. So how many you got? I don't know. I try to get them for free. You can get them for free. Just make some calls.

For real? Yeah. You're Jennifer Hudson. You just say Jennifer Hudson wants a guitar. I need a purple one. A matte purple guitar. Yeah. Jennifer Hudson wants a Prince guitar.

Yep. That's exactly what I want. She wants a Prince guitar with the symbol. You want the symbol? I want the symbol. No. Well, I could have my own symbol. But it should be purple to represent

Prince. Yes, I'm sure you can get a guitar. I'm absolutely positive. You just decide the brand. What should I go for? Because you're a pro. I play. The big ones are Fender and Gibson, but there's a lot of little places that'll make you a special guitar. Really? Sure, but they'll

take care of you you know i mean maybe that's my christmas gift to myself have you do you play no you know what i collect instruments in my house i have a harp i have a full harp like a big harp yes i have horns like what kind of organ like a church oh that's good so you play with it no No. Okay. Because I like to have things in there that represents what I do. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like a museum. So I have other people come in and play the instruments.

Like all the musicians, okay, bring this to life. Really? Yeah. So you'll just have people over and go like, who can play the harp? Yeah. Well, nobody really can. So I always have to hire a harpist. I only know one harp player.

Really? Joanna Newsom. Okay. Look. Really? Joanna Newsome. Look her up. Joanna Newsome. Joanna Newsome is a very sort of a creative and out there harp player. But she plays the big harp. Okay. Many records.

Many records. I think drag city records. She has records too. A lot of records. Okay, I want to hear this. And it's like all harp. Okay. And she's married to Andy Samberg.

You know, the funny guy from SNL who And she's married to Andy Samberg, the funny guy from SNL who did the music videos. Andy Samberg. He's on Brooklyn Nine-Nine. I know faces. I don't know names. I'm sorry. So, okay, you got a harp.

You got the organ. I have the harp organ. I have horns. I have drums. I mean, it's set up for rehearsals and musicians, and then some of them on display. What I do not have yet is a guitar. You can get a couple guitars. So I want to get a purple one.

Yeah. Why don't you just get one of Prince's? That would be, do you think I could? Yeah. Come on, you're Jennifer Hudson. Where am I going to get it from, though? Find out who's got Prince's guitars. Well, they might be very expensive.

They have to be. Yeah. I just assume that someone will just give it to you. If you talk about it. I'm going to try about it because if you say i can i can if you i know i know that a company will give you one i don't know that you'll be able to get prince's guitar okay well that will they want me to expect me to be able to play no no no no they'll just be happy you have one you know how it works take a picture okay i got a guitar okay It'll go and display in my house. Yeah, hang it up.

All the other instruments that I do not play. The only thing I can play on the bed is the piano. Is it a studio with all this stuff? You know what it is? No. It's the Aretha Franklin Vocal Studio Throne Room. Oh, really? Dedicated to her.

In your house. I'm going to show you some pictures of it one day. In your house? In my house. Is there a plaque that says it? Actually, it's a marquee at the top. It doesn't say Aretha, but I have this huge mural of her that I had painted on the wall and it's dedicated to her.

Yeah. Right? And then I have a lot of the keepsakes from the film, like the props and stuff when we were on set. Yeah. And it makes up the room. Oh, that's nice. And then that's why I got the organ.

When we were on set doing one of the church things, you know, the were live yes and i fell in love with the organ yes so with every project i keep a keepsake and so i was like i'm gonna get a bhaman three organ yeah you gotta have my keepsake or you know yeah did you get that one or you just got a new one that one i i had my md pick me out one an old one or new one it's? It's, I think it's old, but it's really. It sounds good, right? It's like brand new. Oh my God, like they rebuilt everything. And so all the musicians who come in my house are like, this is the best organ ever.

Oh, that's great. And they love it. That's great. And we do all the rehearsals in there and I record in there and everything. It's weird because like all that, all those stuff, all that music that we were playing on all those instruments, it's really like a, it's a style that you like, right? Old style. I love it.

Right? With that, just the old grooves. It's so good. Yeah. It's a different vibe, a different feel. You did a whole record like that. Not yet. Not yet?

That now I'm inspired to. Yeah. You know, the project, playing Aretha and like researching her music and her approach and recording. Yeah. Has inspired me to want to approach my music and my recording process that way. Yeah. So now, like, that's what I want to do. I want to record in my house with live musicians.

Do it live. Right. Yeah. Classic sound. Oh, my God. That's what my dream is. What was it? How did you, I mean, how does it work usually? Because I don't do it live right yeah six sound oh my god that's what my dream is what was it how did you i mean how does it work usually because i don't do it but like you know when i look at a

record there's 90 people on the record producers and half of them we never meet yeah i yeah never see them like half the time when i'm singing a song like a couple times i've done duets yeah when i started singing a duet i was singing with one person and then by the time it was done i'm like oh who is that on the record? And you're just by yourself most of the time. Isn't that sad? Never even. Yes.

And I'm the type of person I like to vibe out. I like people. I like to be in contact and let it breathe in a live way. Yeah. So, yeah, that's so fun. I don't. The way we record today feels extremely technical. And it's so like, oh, my God. It's draining.

It sucks at least the life out of me. I like it when it's live and I can respond to the musicians on the spot and feel it as we go versus doing something planned. I like to surprise myself. You know what I mean? Yeah. Or experience something that I don't even know where it's going to go. So the only time that you really get to do that is in actual live performances. Yes.

only time that you really get to do that is in actual live yes performances yes not you know like even when you know i tell the story all the time about when we were on the set uh of of respect and it was that christmas party and you were just you just stopped by and they had that little combo there right they had the little combo from town singing christmas songs and everybody's like and and everyone's like oh and you going to go? And everyone's like, oh, she's going to sing it. And you're like, I don't know if I feel like it. But in five minutes,

you were up there. And do you remember what you sang? It was like a... Now Behold the Lamb. Yeah. I love that song so much. Grew up in church singing it. You're not even singing it.

You're just talking about it. I'm starting to choke up. It's such a beautiful song. I know. But when you did it live like that, because I've been in the studio with you You're not even singing it. You're just talking about it. I'm starting to choke up. It's such a beautiful song. I know. But when you did it live like that, because I've been in the studio with you doing the repeats and the pieces and no whole songs, and it was just you with musicians live in a cafeteria doing that song, and it was amazing. Thank you.

It was just amazing. You just locked right in. It's like it breathes life. And to me, that that's my favorite thing to do just be around live music live musicians yeah so and then it's in a moment right there's nothing planned that's church though but that's church so what was that song called now behold the lamb precious lamb of god precious lamb of god yes and that what is that a church song it's a gospel song kirk franklin i want to say kirk franklin and the family yeah um that song is from them and it is temla man is the vocal one of the vocalists on the song i can't remember the other is it it's not a christmas song it's just a gospel song or is it a christmas it services both oh yeah you could sing it every sunday if you want and

it comes out christmas as you see right yeah it's a song you grew up with oh yeah oh my god yeah yeah yeah and i used to sing the the it's it's a male and a female on the record yeah and i used to sing that verse that i probably sang that day well actually i think i sang both of the verses yeah but in a song like that you gotta get up in there and get in you should have got you some mark i know that song oh it's such a good one i only have a few songs like that, and they have nothing to do with God. There's a few songs I love, but they're not God songs. There's a David Bowie song, a Lou Reed song, a couple other ones. I just played live with some people for the second time in my life.

Really? The guitar. Yeah, I put a band together and sang in front of people. It's very exciting. And I never do it, though. I'm a comic, so I actually don I don't get that scared doing comedy. I don't imagine you get scared singing. Right.

But so to actually strap a guitar and go out on a stage, I'm like terrified and nervous and excited and you get all raw and weird. Wow. It was good. Yeah. Did you enjoy the film? Will you do it again? Yeah, I want to do it again.

I want to get better at it. Because, you know, I imagine when you first started singing, get choked up i get choked up right so like i'm tight you know i'm on top you know i'm thinking too much i mean when did you start though when did you start that well i didn't start singing with my eyes open until i was 19 years old what does that even mean i was i was i had stage fright and i will and i didn't you know i started singing in church when you were a kid when i was a kid so you just stand up there with your eyes closed yeah

or I would beg for a solo and then when it came time to sing be completely terrified to do it but you'd still do it and may not even have shown up for church

because I'm like why did I do that to myself because the nurse got the best of me oh really so but you'd do it eventually but did you like

so you were hard on yourself you beat yourself up about it? Yeah, to me. And I still have a stage fright. And now it hits me in the wings of the stage right before I go out. I'm freaking out. Do I know the words? Oh, my God, what if I miss the cue?

Oh, my God. I just recently sang Ness in Dormum in New York for an audience. Andre Buccelli was there. And I was like, oh, my my god i can't go out there and sing this i don't even know what i'm saying what am i gonna do this is me freaking out right before it came time for me to walk out on the stage yeah what what venue was that oh god it was at the like i don't was it central park it was a huge park gathering in new york and when i tell you it's an italian and you're singing in italian yes and in that moment i talked myself out of things I said girl you don't know

what you're saying you can't come to sing for this what if you miss a word you it ain't like you can make up something like that is what goes through my mind before I walk out on the stage and I was I was freaking myself out and then but soon as I walk on the stage it's like oh this is home yeah exactly it's home right yeah and it just goes away that's why it took years for me to get that what is that well i think eventually i think like you said you know you didn't sing with your eyes open till your night what happens is most of your life as a performer depending on what kind of person you are you spend pretending like you're not afraid and then one day you're not afraid because you live up there do you know what i mean

yeah like that that's where you are that's who you are it's a scary thing though before because i had gave the song to bachelli and everything i was like let him just sing the song i don't know what i thought i was thinking i should go home what'd you have to do train in the italian yes it took i did it during the pandemic i learned the song yeah and that's why i chose to do it then because i haven't seen saying classical music since i was in high school. And back then you had all the time in the world, you know. So during the pandemic, I was like, this is the perfect amount of time for me to be able to invest my time and my energy and really learn the song. It took me two months to learn the song.

So that's what what I that's how I was able to talk myself into the performance. I said, trust your teachings. You did the work. But see, when I think, I mess up something. Yeah. So I was like, don't think about it. Just let it go into autopilot. You got it. Jennifer, don't think.

Yeah. It was all in there. Yeah. Right. So when you do it in Italian, do you make sure you understand the Italian or it doesn't matter? You should. So you look at the words. In some parts, yes.

But again, it took two months to learn a song. So it's like I got to get what I can get in the amount of time that I can get it. Yeah. And go with it as best as I can. Yeah. And then I'll focus on that later. I'll gather it as I go. But I am the kind of person that works down to the last second.

And how'd it land? Good? It landed well. Yeah. Yeah. That's so funny. And once I got off the set, I was it land? Good? It landed well. Yeah. Yeah. That's so funny. And once I got off the stage, I was like,

yeah, I have no idea. Yeah. Yeah. I may have looked calm and it may have looked easy on the stage, but in my mind, what was happening and going on?

Oh my God. Freaking out. I hate that. The actor, David Harbour was so funny. Like I talked to him. He does a lot of stage. He's in Stranger Things.

He's a good actor. Wow. But he said, when he's talking about that Stranger Things. He's a good actor. Wow. But he said, when he's talking about that stage fright, like, he's got to do a play. He's about to go on to do a whole play.

And he's on stage the entire time for the play. Wow. And he's in the wings waiting to go on. And he has that moment where he's like,

somebody get me a script! Somebody get me... Oh, my God. It's the same feeling. Yes. But we have to psych ourselves out. I guess. I don't miss that I haven't felt that in a while I mean like I I guess with the music I did but I didn't have a lot

it's different when you have a lot at uh at stake like you know if you're gonna if you're in a high profile thing right you know that makes it even worse you know no one's gonna give a shit if I miss a lyric at the 200 seats in Hollywood. So you're just out here doing this, doing press and stuff now? Or are you working? I've been doing so many things at this point, I don't know, but yes, I am. I missed that thing last night.

Sorry, how was that fun? It was really nice. Yeah? I enjoyed it. Smokey Robinson? Smokey Robinson. I got to sit and talk to him, and we did an interview together about Miss Franklin,

which was so cool because they go way back. He said she was his longest friend. Right. Their family friend, too, right? She was seven when they first met, and she was five. Wow. He's like some of the best songs, Smokey Robinson. I was thinking about him yesterday, like Tracks of My Tears.

Oh, my God. Tears of a Clown. Those two are my favorites. Wow. Well, one of mine, which I didn't realize he wrote until last night. Oh, really? The Way You Do the Things You Do by The Temptations. My mother used to sing that to us all the time.

And I was like, wait, you wrote that? My mother used to sing that to me, you know? Yeah. And of course, My Girl. Oh, yeah, yeah. Songs like that. Yeah. It's golden to me to be able to talk to him.

Was it the first time you talked to him? No, it wasn't my first time, but have you sung with him? Yes. We, um, we talked about that, which I,

I, apparently it was eight years ago or six years ago at the White House where we sang together. And I was telling him then, like, I was freaking out, like, Oh my God,

I'm sitting here. Give me smoke. Like, you know, yeah. Cause I don't take those things lightly. How do you think the, uh,

how's the feedback on the movie been it's been amazing like when you're you know playing a legend icon as treasure like aretha franklin it's scary to step into those you know right and those and just in that whole lane um and people can be really picky but i've been really blown away by how well it's been received because yes it's exciting to get the role but then it's like it's one of those freaking out moments like oh my god what did i do how's it gonna be did i end my career like are they gonna receive it all of those things that's going through my mind but it's been over overwhelmingly beautiful yeah i think a lot of people didn't know anything about her right And, you know, even like maybe the true fans or whatever.

And I don't think even as much as the darkness that they got into in the movie and even in knowing there's more even. I just don't think people had any idea of that woman's journey and trauma that she went to. That is so true. Because even for myself, I didn't fully know. Yeah, I didn't know anything. I mean, until I read the biography and I read the biography of Wexhoyer. So I learned all this stuff and I was like,

David Ritz, the David Ritz book. And it's like heavy, man. It's heavy. And when I talk about you in the movie and you look at that old stuff, the old footage of Aretha, which you studied, is you start to realize that that woman early on in her public presentation of herself was full on PTSD.

Yeah. Full on. Wow. Like, you know, that weird flat affect, you know, that before she sort of came into herself, she was just shut down yes right and i just like i i mean it was it was hard to understand at first and i started to realize like that until she got away from ted you know she was like you know like ptsd like stockholm syndrome almost right and that's the thing like after portraying her and obviously being able to

have a chance to be around her and get to know her it made it make more sense of why she was the way she was you know it's like well because at times when i would be around miss frank i'm like well how's she feeling does she know like hello do you like me you know you never knew what you stood with her and she wasn't a very expressive person when she said what she said. She said what she said. Right. Every she was kind of like it. Now, when I think about it, it seems like.

I almost feel like a shell shock in a way. Right. You know what I mean? Which is understandable when you look at the conditions in the situations and from her perspective it makes so much more sense now yeah yeah oh for sure her talent was so uh specific and so kind of undeniable that it's going to come out no matter what but you know whatever the vessel that she's in or however she's handling her shit right you know is all relative to what she came from yes you know and it all makes sense in relation to that i mean the way that forrest Whitaker portrayed that man, it was like menacing.

Right? Man. When you were working with that guy, because I didn't get to do any scenes with him, but you're doing it. You didn't, did you? No, no, no. But like, just, it must have been heavy. Oh my God, I'm just imagining doing a scene with both of you would have been like, whoa, this is amazing. imagine doing the scene with both of you would have been like whoa this is amazing but to work with forrest and to see his approach and the way he uh channeled yeah cl yeah yeah to without words

at times but still giving you the essence of every bit of what you know what i mean um cl was i i couldn't imagine just the weight of it man yeah he it was so good that whole thing was so good so you still live in Chicago I do like in it born and raised I flew here from Chicago are you in the city or outside well I'm in Burridge now yes I am originally from the city south side Inglewood area born and raised yeah I have no sense you know like I I only know the I love Chicago I mean I go there and I've know, like, I only know the, I love Chicago. I mean, I go there and I've grown to like it, you know, because I worked there at times. And I've been there several times over the last few years.

It's a real city that has its own identity. There's only a few of those, really, that are their own thing. But there's a whole, I've only talked to a few people that have grown up there. And there's a whole mythology, a dark mythology to Chicago. But, I mean a that was a big thriving nice neighborhood at some point right when you were growing up well yeah i mean it was rough for us i don't know if i ever really knew the difference i was very sheltered and stayed in with my mother yeah that's why i ended up being the way that i am now singing and all

of that she protected we were in church every day every day the week yes sir just for sunday you know what i guess that was a part of it because my mother used to say idle hands is the devil's workshop yeah and then my grandmother's brother was a pastor of the church oh in town how far away in the house front was it like back when i was younger we lived on 63rd and the church was on 45th and greenwood and it's a family church okay and what does that mean well it's it's made up a family so like i'm very family oriented sure sure the neighborhood church neighborhood small family church small but it wasn't a storefront yeah it was like a legit traditional church baptist baptist yeah yep

and my grandmother was a soloist of the church and she was sickly by the time you know i was born so i used to stay in the house with her all the time now my brother and my sister got out so they could probably tell you about the streets a whole lot more than me like people didn't even know they had a little sister until you heard me singing they like what's that in there right we didn't even know you guys had a sister so was it that your mom was like i'm gonna i'm gonna i have to protect this one well no she did that with all of us i was just more obedient than the others like we wasn't allowed one older sister yes i'm the baby yeah so my sister julia and my brother who passed his name was jason um they they you know everybody's their own individual so they

did their thing and then i was the baby that's like okay what Julia and Jason did that I shouldn't do okay I won't do that right um yeah but yeah we grew up in the church all day my mother was a church secretary my grandmother was a soloist but you went to school too though yes I went to school and then yeah I like to be creative but yeah we grew up in the hood south side Inglewood but did it feel dangerous i mean in your mind no no no because we didn't know we were poor right or uh you know and where was the old man my father yeah well my father was a bus driver so he traveled a lot he used to drive greyhound but were they together no yeah so he wasn't around not sometimes sometimes. Yeah. When he chose to be. Yeah.

He was around. And you had a, did you have a relationship with him? No. Did you ever seek one out? When I turned 16, I was determined to meet all of my, because he had a lot of children, siblings. Oh, really? And so when I got old enough to do that, I wanted to go search for them.

So you wanted to know your half brothers and sisters yes that was the intention my father had 27 children stop it and i'm like the one the youngest that we know of 27 children yes 11 girls 16 boys how many women i don't know. Baby, I don't know. And yes, his name was Sam. Sam. Hudson? No. I would be Jennifer Simpson. Oh, that's right. Okay.

I'm so grateful I'm Jennifer Hudson. Yeah. Because I think I would be a whole nother person. You probably would be. Oh, my God. If you took his name? If. If you were part of that crew?

I think I would be a, I probably wouldn't be sitting here. So you're lucky he was gone in a way. I think so. So did you find all these people, all these siblings? Quite a few. Well, once I became Jennifer Hudson to the world, some of my lost siblings went to my father's mother's house to meet her and the neighbor started like y'all know who your sister is right yeah and they're like jennifer hudson is your sister uh-huh so

how'd that go what did they start coming around for you know how those things go um and then i have a uh my sister she'll be so happy to know. Like, oh my God, you mentioned me. Dinah. Yeah. Is one of my oldest sisters. I got to meet her throughout our childhood growing up. Is it half sister?

Yes. That's one of my half. My whole siblings, all our names start with a J. Julia, Jason, Jennifer. Okay. Those are, you know, my mother and my father kids. And then my half siblings. I have tons of half siblings.

I have a brother named Lenny, a sister named Dinah. And you like Dinah. Sam. Dinah you have a relationship with. Some of them you do. Yeah. Oh, okay. Their family.

I mean, your older sister. My oldest. She's in Chicago too? She's in Chicago. And she's a bus driver. Really? And hilarious. Like in the city?

Julia crazy. You didn't meet her? Maybe I did. If you did, you would not forget. I don't know if she was down there. Was she down there? You would definitely not forget. I don't know if I met her.

She did not come to the show. Maybe at the premiere. At the premiere, she was definitely at the premiere. Yeah, maybe I met her for a second. You didn't meet her. No. If you had her, you would be like, oh, you would have told me, I met your sister Julia. Yeah.

And I always tell people, let me apologize in advance for what she may say or do why she uh she's a character she's a character you you would love her yeah she drives a bus oh she drives a school bus a school bus because our father was a bus driver so she's a bus driver that's interesting isn't it it's very interesting and she because she didn't have a relationship with him either did you know but she knew he was a bus driver so that was i guess what's in your blood is in your blood maybe Maybe it's your blood. It's hard to understand. It's hard to understand why we do what we do sometimes.

I can't imagine that driving a bus is in your blood. Maybe it's the traveling. And she's good at it too, honey. Well, I mean, maybe it's a way of having a relationship you didn't have with the person. Maybe. Connecting in a way. In a subconscious way. I could take that.

I could take that. Now, I can only drive up one street. I only really drive up one street. You can't drive. But I never really wanted to drive. I do. I'm grateful that my mother made me get a license because I didn't want one. You don't like to drive.

I mean, I will when I have to. And I have a son. So now I have to drive him around how old's that kid he's 12 seventh grade yeah oh my god and he has a little girlfriend oh he'll kill me let me shut up so when you started singing like uh it was mostly in church and then when when did you start opening your eyes? What job was that? You know what? What?

That reality of performing did not hit me until I think I was about the time, almost when I was on Idol. I was like, wait, what is this performing stuff? Can I just sing the song? Because my grandmother was a singer. She used to just teach me, you stand flat foot and sing. And that's that. So to walk into a world of entertainment i'm like what was the first what was that first journey oh the disney wonder cruise ship what is that i work i was one to seven cats um on the disney wonder cruise how old were you

then i was 22 okay when i was on the ship so that wasn't the first job. No, the first job. Okay, let me take you back. Okay, in high school, I used to sing for everything. And that's when I started to get gigs. Like musicals in high school and get band gigs? Well, our thing was, like Walter, who's here with me, we grew up together. And so he was determined for the world to hear me sing. So by the time we got in high school, he was determined for the world to hear me sing so by the time we got in high school he was determined for the world to hear me sing so we would go and

do all type of talent shows yeah and it was like guaranteed that i will win and we would collect everybody's money like you could get in talent shows for like a thousand dollars or two thousand that's a lot of money to a kid yeah so you knew you had the gift and walter knew you had the gift yes and you could knock it out and that was our hustle as a kid. Yeah. And so I will win. Like it was unanimous, like all the shows to the point when I went to college and they had, it was, I went to Kennedy King college after leaving Langston university, but that's

another story. And they had a talent show. You went, oh, that was the second college you went to? Yes. Cause I was a homebody, a mama's baby. And you freaked out. Oh my God. So the freshman year, you just kind of got depressed. It's giving me anxiety just thinking about it's baby and you freaked out oh my god so the freshman year

you just kind of got depressed giving me anxiety just thinking about it because i i oh my god i was like wait go away and i was like i want to go away with my cousins and when my when i could see when they got in the car and left me on the curb i was like where they going no i didn't mean i wasn't serious and i lasted one semester i had lost my voice with the climate of the air that I couldn't even speak. Where was it? Langston University. Where's that? In Oklahoma.

Oh, it was too dry? By homecoming. Yeah, it was too dry. And so now to this day, I keep humidifiers around. Yeah. I couldn't even speak. And I was like, okay, nothing can risk my voice. So I came back to Chicago, went to Kennedy King College.

That's so funny, though, because it's such anxiety. You just didn't want to be there. So your throat shut up. You know what? You are probably right. You just didn't want to be there, so your throat shut up. You know what? You are probably right. You know, you just closed down. You didn't want to admit it, so you got sick. It was so traumatic.

Every time I think about it, I was like, why are they getting in this car? Y'all leaving? And they had drove me there. And the first time I went to visit there, I flew. So I was like, oh, I can go away. And they drove me to school. My mom, my brother and my sister. And left me there. Why would they do that?

I felt that. That feeling of homesickness is horrible because you just feel like you're not able to take care of yourself in a way somehow. You don't feel comfortable. Oh, my God. Yeah, that they're just not in the next room or available, too far away. Oh, my God. I just, and then I'm like, why would they do this to me?

But it wasn't until I left home that things started to happen for me. You know? Right, right. So when Disney came about. So after you went back to King's College. When I went to Kennedy King College, which was literally right down the street from my house like i could walk it was literally

my house was on 70th and yale yeah kenny king was on 69th and yale yeah okay i was not going far and what were you studying well i was just taking regular general courses yeah yeah and music it's always about music but yes okay okay my first week at school or so I took music. My teacher was Rufus E. Hill. I miss him dearly. And, you know, you go in a music class, they make all the students get up and sing. Yeah. And I get up, sing Happy Birthday National Anthem. I don't know. Silent Night. Yeah. So each student got up and sang. Yeah. And then when I got up to sing, by the time I was done, the teacher was like, wait a minute. student got up and sang yeah and then when i got up to sing by the time i was done the teacher was like wait a minute hold on and he called one of his friends yeah which was named ife she's a huge broad like theater star ife yeah can't think of her last name but those who know that world would

know her yeah and she he had her there and he was like you need to come here this this girl sing and he had her come in and i sang and then she was before i knew it they started to give me all type of auditions they was like okay we want to sing you to this theater and i was 19 at the time yeah and i went and i auditioned at myriad lincoln shia theater that was my first real in chicago professional job yeah it was in lincoln shia which is like 45 minutes to an hour outside of chicago and i went in and I sang and they was like, okay, you got the job. What job it was, I didn't know.

Same thing happened with Disney. Walter, he found the audition in the newspaper. For Disney. For Disney. All we saw was Disney is looking for singers. And it was the reason why I agreed to do it because it was two days after my birthday. I had a new dress and I had nowhere to wear it.

And I was like, fine, I'll do it. So I go to the audition in Chicago, not even knowing what I'm really auditioning for. And I sing. I think I sang like I will always love you or something by Whitney Houston. And they was like, ma'am, you're hired. OK. And they was like, do you like to travel? I was like, sure.

I love to travel and this and that. They were going to send me to Japan. Yeah. Oh, my God. I would have died. Yeah. Thankfully. And I was just, yes, yes, yes. And didn't know what I was agreeing to.

And that's when I ended up on a Disney Wonder Cruise ship. And thank God, Port Canaveral, Florida. And that's when everything started to happen. So wait, so how long are you on the boat for? Well, I did a six month contract. So you're on a boat for six months? Yes, six months. Yeah.

And I was Calliope the hit muse in Hercules the musical. And are you good on boats? I think so, but ask me would I do it again? No. I get seasick. I mean, I'm paranoid to be way out on the ocean. No, I loved it. You did?

And my ship was in the bow, like right under the captain, I believe. Oh, really? Yeah. That was your room? Yeah. And I was main cast, so I got to have my own cabin. Most people had to share a cabin. And it was a great, great experience.

Are you considered an employee of the boat? Did you guys have to learn how to? Yes. The wet drills. Oh, my God. Which was a nightmare because i cannot swim and i still had to be a deputy leader yeah and they told us we had a wet drill if you did not pass the wet drill you couldn't get on the ship but you can't swim no

but look i thought the wet drill meant they was gonna sprinkle us with some water right like with some sprinkles some hoses or something no that not what happened. They put us on this like really high dock. And then we were in Castaway Cay. And we had to jump into the water. And they're like, it's sharks out there. In the ocean? Yeah. It's sharks out there.

Sharks out where? I can't swim. Did you? Yeah. So everybody, I was the last one to jump. And then we had to flip the life raft over. Yeah. And I was, but I use it as my test.

I said, Jennifer, if you can get through this then you're cut out to go audition for something like American Idol but if you can't girl go home and sit down so I had to do it luckily they treated me like the victim right because they was like we don't care if you can't dance we don't care if you can't swim long as you get up there and sing like that yeah you got the job so so if you hadn't gotten that boat over, no American Idol. That was my test. I like to, you know, challenge myself. So no, I would have had to go home.

Like, shouldn't have gone home. So what was that theater gig, though, before we move on? Big River. Oh, okay. I was Alice's daughter, and I sang the song How Blessed We Are. Oh, okay. And that was my first professional job, and I thought I was really doing something because I was 19. I was making like $425 a week. Nice it was the life so after Disney American Idol it's so weird how many people

just assume in the back of their head that you won American Idol no seven plays I mean you really didn't win no seven plays season three and I was a wild card pick they had sent me home before that but Randy Jackson picked me they had a wildcard thing so you could put bring somebody back out of all the people that were eliminated and luckily i was his wildcard pick yeah and from there i placed seventh place yeah and was eliminated again it's wild so now that i imagine that not unlike the disney audition or any audition that you did before you were known like you'd get in the room and people be like what the fuck is happening right so what how was that audition um well

at the initial audition it was the same reaction yeah but as it went on it dwindles down and I I mean I don't care who you are how good you are you know there's always somebody else that's great too right and I would tell myself well Jenniferennifer you in the top 12 and 30 of a whole bunch of number one yeah you know what i mean yeah and that helped put it into perspective yeah but i felt like you know i felt as though nothing is just and it was a good teacher and lesson and and it's more to it too you know in the tv talent shows because it's a tv show first yeah and i guess also like that must've been a pretty quick education. And I mean,

it's very weird. And I always notice it when I work, you know, that when you're backstage, that's, that's really the life we live. Yes. That,

you know, you're just sitting there, there's people sitting around, there's some food, there's a guy holding a rope, you know, and that's like, that's our job.

And then we go out there and do the thing but that you know getting to know like being part of that show must have gave you a very crash course yes in the pace and nature of that type of show business it was a great teacher it was like a good boot camp yeah and i saw so many people starting out in the initial auditions yeah and not being able to follow through because they didn't understand freaked out what it was what it entailed what all you had to do what it took what what was that in your head oh my god like we never got to sleep you know it was like okay we would have to sit through whatever the day it was the itinerary whatever they had us to do and after that you would think it would be time

to go to bed no you need to work on your song for tomorrow you need to write a song you need to have choreography you need to and people are like wait what yeah because they don't want to see the the person holding the rope behind the stage they just want to see the lights and the glimmer and the glitz that's right and a lot of people don't have that mindset but guess what taught me that disney you see what i'm saying and so to see those that didn't have that worth ethic or that mindset to know like and I'm like okay what we need to do yeah you know it showed those who were willing to work for it versus those who just wanted to stand in the light and I think that's what I mean you know even the lifeboat thing that it and even like Liesl you know tells a story about

how you know the repetition of of doing the work, the emotional work and singing on Respect and that she had thought that you were done, but she needed one more take and you just did it and you can just kind of lock in and do the work that I think your work ethic and being able to continue giving is something that's carried you through and stays with you, right?

Thank you, definitely. But do you find that, because I think when people think about American Idol, and I don't watch it, but I think when people think about it, and I have nothing against it, it's all very moving, but I think that there's a lot of one-trick ponies out there. There's a lot of people that got a trick and they do the trick, but that's all that they got. And I think that there's an assumption around people who make it in talent shows that

that's a lot of, that's most of it. And then every once in a while, this amazing talent comes through. But it seems to me that you don't ever really fake it. And it doesn't seem like you're capable of doing that. So how do you, do you ever get totally exhausted? I mean, like when you were doing Respect, were there times where you're like, I, cause I remember when we were shooting the stuff in the church, you needed a minute. So you gotta, I mean, you do feel it. Oh, I ain't got no choice but to feel it. But that's what gets, that's what I, I mean, that's when my job is, to feel it. And that, yeah, but it's also, I guess you must, it must be natural to you because in a sense, how, like, cause you come out of winning seventh on American Idol.

And how does the Dreamgirls thing happen? You know what? That happened two years after Idol. So what were you doing in the interim? Recording? Yes, I was. I moved back to Florida with my Disney director, who became my manager. You moved to Florida?

Yes. You were living in Florida? Yeah. Florida is a huge part of my life, actually. Yes. Because that's where we were. That's where the boat was? That's where the ship is.

That is where Disney Traditions is. We trained in Toronto, Canada. Wait, Disney Traditions. That's like the. That's the training grounds. Oh, okay. To teach you the Disney etiquette. It's almost like scientology

i'm still a disney product most people don't know that unless you're on the television like the disney channel the disney shows but disney is what helped give me my start it's interesting so yeah i was on because literally literally at first of all imagine crying been on this ship for six months like i miss home and then the day i finally got off the ship the next day i flew to atlanta georgia and auditioned for american idol so you were dug in with disney there there was part of you that must have you did you think like this is the life that this is this is no no no but you were you were i love doing things for the experience and even down to idol i said i'm gonna do it for the experience and but tell me about this disney thing that's where you met the guy the father of your kid

no no oh god no my son wasn't born until i thought won my oscar so that was about another 10 years later so when but so the manager guy yes the my um disney director became my manager because he was just such an advocate for my talent and he used to pull me aside like this is a rare talent to even come through the ships you know the reaction of the people who would come every now and then he's a great guy still ed willow ed willow he was my manager for a while and him and his friend gave me a production due okay and i started recording in florida in florida after you got done with that first i was off an idol and everybody was like where did jennifer hudson go you know and that's when they were writing florida

actually uh orlando florida to be exact um everybody was writing articles like where's jennifer hudson because they were saying jennifer hudson for effie white and i'm like who is effie white now i knew the music from dream girls but I didn't know the story or the character names. So I'm like, what is everybody talking about? But no one could find me. But I'm the kind, as long as I'm doing what I love. That manager wasn't good at that point. Because he came from a whole nother world.

You know what I mean? So luckily, my cousin, Marita Hudson, who's a plumbusist that I work with a lot, and she's quite known, they were able to track me down through her she's a flirt and they contacted her because her name is marita hudson yeah and i'm jennifer hudson and she was like oh yeah that's my cousin yeah and that's how the whole dream girls thing came about see because the reason i bring that up is that you know for you to figure out you know how to infuse the music and and an established musical with the emotions

and acting chops to to kind of like without seemingly without a lot of training you know you just you naturally have to show up for everything you know that just say that no i've never had singing lessons or acting. Yeah. For, yeah. Yeah, because you just are, you know, your heart's out front, you know, because you can't. I think the point I was trying to make is you don't know how to fake it, really. I like to be it. I always say I don't act, I react. I can't act at all, to be honest.

But no one can tell you how you feel in a situation. But no one can tell you how you feel in a situation. So it's like, okay, well, yes, I may be here in someone else's path, but it's me who's experiencing it. That's right. So I like to try to live in that moment and just react. And that's acting. Is that acting? That's the nature of it.

Okay. But see, the thing for me, like I grew up as a music fan. Yeah. So I always jumped to being at the Grammys and performing in stages like that. So when the Oscar, that whole thing came up for Dreamgirls, it was Jamie Foxx, actually. He was the one on set. He's like, she's going to win an Oscar for this. And he's like, but the craziest thing is she has no clue what's going on. And I didn't.

I had no idea so once i got to the oscars yeah i i that was forget watching it that was my first time like imagine your first time watching the oscars you're there and you're nominated yeah that's what it was for me like huh what's this that's that's probably the best way for it to happen because then at least you're not you don't get cynical you happen. Because then at least you don't get cynical. You don't get all jaded. You don't get trained to do a thing. Right. You know, like you certainly weren't doing what you're doing now, you know, for this movie. Right.

You were just sort of like, what? Right. But that's what's cool about this time around is because I now have a sense of like what everything means and what it is and all of that because back then I didn't have a clue all I wanted to do was get my lines right yeah and and make Bill Cundon proud because he gave me this opportunity you know what I mean yeah so it's like okay sir I want to make you proud because you you you gave me this opportunity and now when you look at the your career in terms of like after that after the the acting and, you know, the the Oscar and American Idol and then sort of moving on to other movies and TV projects and stuff. Did you feel that your music was, you know, out front as much as you wanted it to be?

Like, were you concerned? Did you did you feel like I need to hit record? You know what? You know what? I still need to hit. did you did you feel like i need to hit record you know what you know what i still need to hit i have i have i have and i'm telling you but it's technically effies and yeah you know me although i'm grateful for it yeah and i have spotlight yeah but the thing is when you win an oscar and especially with the start that i had um you're catapulted to a whole nother space yeah and it's like you may not be there and experiencing ready for it. Right. I was headlining a tour.

Yeah. And I said, I had a $19 mic stand in the song. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like I didn't have the catalog to support it, but everybody was there to see me. And it's like, oh, can I live this again? Because now I have more of a sense. And I'm obviously

far more experienced sure to draw from because i'm like i don't even know what this is well at that time yeah it's it's weird when you when there's a lot of momentum and you have the spotlight and there's people that are like doesn't make no money so exactly so then you're like okay i want to make the money and then you realize like well i, I want to make the money. And then you realize like, well, I mean, but that's just natural. And it doesn't seem like, it seems like everyone still loves you. Like if you were going to go out and do a whole new set. Right. You know, with a few.

I'm grateful I still get to do that. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And like, and you were running around doing The Voice for a while. Yes. I did The Voice USA and The Voice UK. Back and forth. Oh, my God. Yes. It's crazy. Oh, the jet lag oh my god but i yeah and the weight watchers the weight watchers

you that was a long time you did that that well i started a week after i had my son so that was 12 years ago and i was preparing for the film winnie that i did right and i had to i needed to lose weight for that character yeah and so i said, I might as well make money doing it. And then I saw all the weight loss campaigns. I love Weight Watchers. I love it too. I liked it back in the day, though. I like the points.

I don't know what the fuck it is now. Oh, my God. You're funny, but you said what you said. And I'm going to let you say it. No. Because I'm just a little nuts with weight, and I got about 20 over, 15 over. And I was the asshole at the meetings, the skinny guy. The skinny guy.

I'm like, yeah, I lost two this week. And just like sad, mad, obese people. Like, what are you? Get out of here. Get out of here. But it was working for me. And I like the control element. I like counting the points.

I like figuring out how many zero point foods can I eat today? If I can find 50 one point foods, you know, like I did. I loved it. I'm a comic. I had a lot of time during the day. So if I could just chart out my food. You're going to re-inspire me. Oh, I still have the old books with the little, you know, the little, what do you call it?

To figure out the fiber versus the little slide rule thing. Listen, that's true. Okay, you're a real one. Wow. I remember when I was doing Weight Watchers, I would have like Weight Watchers people just popping out of nowhere. Like, I'm Weight Watchers. And I'd be like, okay, it would be everybody. But I was, i loved the experience

and it ended up being bigger than the film that i did really yeah which which one was that i played winnie mandela oh that's right okay in south africa yeah yeah yeah the weight watchers was bigger than the weight watchers honey came over and took all of that over yeah but you did a lot of movies like you know i i don't know we don't need to talk about cats. I don't know how you feel about cats. You know what? Yeah. I'm proud of everything I do. No, I thought it was cute.

There's something. I didn't watch the whole movie, but it seems like there were bits and pieces that were ridiculous. And it seems like, in my mind, that whoever conceived of it, it's a misconception, but it must have made sense. Why wouldn't it? You know? But I guess it was just a thing. It's like maybe when there's just costumes, people sort of know what's going on. But when you make humans look like real cats, it's too weird.

I think it was because cats. I still try to wrap my brain around it. I think it was just too much for everybody to take in all at once. You had the special effects. Then, like you said, humans as cats then the saturated with the arts yeah like it's a lot because even for us as actors we was like okay wait what are we doing yeah it's how are we doing and you and there was no way you could know it's almost like in the same way that you were talking about recording early on where you're just in by

yourself and then it goes away and then it becomes part of this huge thing i imagine that a lot of cats you're like you have no idea how that's gonna look no and then all of a sudden you know you're just in by yourself and then it goes away and then it becomes part of this huge thing. I imagine that a lot of cats, you're like, you have no idea how that's going to look. No. And then all of a sudden, you know, you're dancing around with a tail. Well, actually, did I have a tail when we were shooting? I don't remember. You know, so it was like a lot of it was imaginative and using your imagination. But that is where my cats came from. And the best gift I have from it, I have Macavity and Grizabella because I was Grizabella in Cats.

Yeah, yeah. And Macavity, Grizabella because I was Grizabella in Cats yeah yeah and Macavity who's the villain so I have a Sphinx cat for Macavity and a Tabby cat for Grizabella yeah that's what I got that's the orange cat Tabby you didn't even know the name but yes so that's where my cats came from yeah but I was I couldn't believe it I was like oh wait I get to be Grizabella and sing memory it was an interesting experience and i just love doing things for the experience and those tears were real tears yeah that's what i'm like do you know the emotion that went in that and then what i my heart goes out to is the dancers yeah they put in so much work yeah they really truly did and it's like i just wish they could have got more credit well i think that i think like it's weird, like with TikTok and everything, I think dancers

are having their time right now. You're right. I've never seen more dancing in my life. I didn't think about it like that. Like if I turn on my phone, I'm like, is everyone dancing? Okay. You know what I mean? Like, it's like all these people that wanted to be dancers.

I always thought like, how many jobs are there for dancers? Right. Are you going to go to Vegas? Are you going to be a Rockette? How many dancer jobs are there? But now with TikTok, it's like everyone's dancing, I guess. Yeah. I guess you're right.

But I don't think they're making a lot of money. But I mean, I definitely follow a couple of dancers. Because I think when things are terrible, like back in the day, like in the Depression and stuff, that's when musicals were very popular. That there's something about watching people dance that lifts the spirit. Interesting. Well, yeah. So now you won a Grammy for the Color Purple soundtrack. I won for my first album.

Right. And Color Purple soundtrack. And I also have an honorary Grammy as well. Oh, really? Does that mean I have three or two I don't know what's an honorary one well when they invite you and they say we want to honor you and give you a Grammy so I feel like that's just as prestigious no sure of course and more so it's a it's like yeah that's for everything that's just for me yeah kind of sort of so it's like

yeah technically I have three Grammys. Yeah, sure. So a couple of questions. Because when we were talking about Aretha, now you knew her. Like how much time you spent with her? We spent a lot of, not a lot of time, but I would see her on and off. Because somehow I got to tribute this woman, I don't know how many times in my career. She would always say she would want me to do it. She loved you.

Yeah, I guess so. But at the time, I didn't know it. Like in my career she would always say she would want me to do it she loved you yeah i guess so but at the time i didn't know it yeah like i'm like she likes me um and then also leading up to her last days like because we've been in talks about me playing her since i won the oscar for dream girls uh-huh that was our first meeting was 15 years ago in new york and yeah fun fact that a lot i don't talk about much um when i was eliminated from america idol she did a show in Merrillville, Indiana, and she allowed me to open up for that show. Oh, wow. And normally they say she will only have comedians. Oh, yeah.

But she said that I could open up for her. So that was the first time I got to meet her. That shows a fairly sort of like grounded ego. You know what I mean? You know what I mean? For somebody to have a singer you know one of the great singers have a great singer because like that even that scene in the movie with dinah washington in a bar right that that would be the situation but you know but

she was gracious enough she was she was so then i got to i got to meet her that day then i got to watch her perform and i got to open up for her. So that was our first meeting. And then it's such a huge time span. So every time I talk about it, it's like, okay, where do I start? Then after that, I thought I won the Oscar for Dreamgirls. We met in New York. I just was in Detroit recently and her people were there and I went to her childhood church and her security guy was like, I was there when you met her.

It was at the Ritz Carlton Hotel. And I was like, you were there? Yeah. Because things like that seem like, was I dreaming? Right. So he verified where it was. Yeah, that happened.

And that's when we had our first meeting about me playing her. Okay. And then, so we would keep in touch from there. And then through my career, oh my God, it's so many performances

of me paying tribute to her. So in the back of my mind, I was always thinking about it as my audition. And she'd check in? Yes. Oh, yeah. She'd be would check in so then it wasn't until like eight years after that when I was on Broadway where she called me I was off that day and she's like I've made my decision and it is you who I want to play me and I was like yes ma'am and she said don't tell a soul I said no ma'am I won't say a thing and then the next day she went and told it to the press herself oh yeah but she didn't she said i didn't the young lady

knows who she is but i'm not going to give you her name at this time and then eight years later here we are with the film so i talked to her we would speak weekly uh we hear from her sometimes she would call sometimes she would get me and walter mixed up and be texting him instead of me and or some you know yeah she would be there and she was always so present like she knew everything that was going on with my son and I'm like you know that she would say a lot of things that I didn't realize she was speaking from her life experiences until we were filming and I'm like no she was really speaking from her own experiences you know sure in the midst of us preparing to get together to teach me about her, to play her. You know what I mean?

And I lastly spoke to her literally. I feel like I was one of the last people to talk to her before she passed. She called me August 8th, I want to say. And that call, I didn't realize it was the last call. And right after that, because we were in conversation, I was sending her pictures of my son. And I never heard back. And then the next day next day there's like she's in hospice and no longer comes in i was like i just talked to her like literally she sang on that call oh really what she's saying she sang an izzy brother song i can't remember the name of it and she's like

now jennifer that's the izzy brothers i say yes ma'am i know and then she told me what she had eaten which is as if she could taste it in that car so that was the last time i got to hear from her so when looking back on on you know the process of making the movie and then also your relationship with her now when you're working with that when you got to step into this and you know the whole story of her and you've got your own tragedy and trauma you know terrible i mean i can't even imagine how you you move through life carrying that uh with your with your mom and your brother and your nephew and were you able in any way to to process any of that in approaching aretha's trauma i mean in a conscious way or no

it's just there it's just there it's there you don't need to get in and to me that is the thing the reason of why she said jennifer played me it wasn't until the scene when aretha mother comes to her and i'm in that scene yeah and it hit me in that moment i said she saw so much more in me that i guess we related in that i didn't realize was there you think after the tragedy that she connected deeper maybe because we did have a conversation long before the tragedy but I don't think I would have been able or ready to be able to tell her story in such an unimprensable way with as much depth without my own life experiences and that that's everything you know what i mean like had we filmed the movie when we

first had the conversation i i don't think i would have been ready you know but having life happen life experiences happen i have to say i could relate to her and people keep asking like okay how did you channel the trauma so much and it's like we all have trauma no matter if it's the same trauma or not you know i mean so it's like it's it's so at least for me it still needs to come from real places everything i do is from the heart and this is why i keep telling everybody it's from the heart and i don't think it would be fair to her to tell her tragedies or her triumphs of her story especially being so attached to her if I didn't come from the same place sure and how what was your process of of processing all that grief and horror I mean did you just was it church did you talk to people how did you do it

well faith and that's another way where we parallel you know um is her faith that got her through and it is mine that gets me through and i feel i always say the greatest gift my mother and my grandmother gave us was giving us to christ you know so it it prepares you in a way and my mother used to say god never allows anything to sneak up on his children. You know, so having those teachings and that foundation. Yeah. I think that's what carry her through and is what carries me through. And that's another thing that I feel she saw that I didn't necessarily think about or even have time to think about in relation to her until, you know.

Yeah. In those moments. but you never had a crisis of faith like she did right no not really yeah no that's an interesting thing about that movie is that you know when you come up like she did and the complicated relationship with her father in that you know when you feel like your faith is left right like that's a very specific thing that i don't think everybody can relate to but when you have it and it's challenged like how do you even go on living you know right right well i always say you have no choice but to go on and what being a person who

has suffered tragedy yeah um it just shows like people can't relate until it is you and i'm here to tell you it could be anybody at any given time and it's it's like one minute one minute i was uh uh a child with a mother and then the blink of an eye and i was an aunt and then blink of an eye i was a mother with a child without a mother. What? Yeah. Even when my son says, T.T., sometimes I say, huh? Because in a flash of a second, one moment I was an aunt, I was T.T.

And the next second I was a mother. And it's like, wait, what? You know what I mean? Yeah. But I know that we have no choice but to go on. Yeah. And to me, that's the power in Miss Franklin's story is because too often we think things don't happen to people like that. So when it has and you see them still prevail, it's a testimony and a testament to say, well, you can still make it, too.

it's a testimony and a testament to say, well, you can still make it too. Yeah. Well, thank you. I mean, you know, cause I, I lost someone I loved over the pandemic and you know, it, it is, it does something to the way you see life. Oh yes. You know, it, it definitely grounds you in something where you realize like this can happen and it does every day to so many people. It really does. Whether it's tragedy or not. Yeah. And we don't live in a culture that really processes death or tragedy.

Right. Everybody just wants to keep moving on. Right. You have to, but you also have to be like, okay. Right. You have to find your way. Right. Get your heart straight.

To deal. Yeah. You know, it's no right or wrong way. No, of course. You know? Yeah. And it's a process that doesn't always go away or end. You know, it's no right or wrong way. No, of course. You know, and it's a process that doesn't always go away or end, you know? It never does. But, you know, you can't, like the Jews, which I am one of, say, you know, may their memory be a blessing. Right?

Yes. That's it. Yes. Yep. Nice talking to you. You too. There you go. Jennifer Hudson, Respect the Movie,

now available to buy or rent on digital platforms, and it's also available on DVD and Blu-ray. Now I'll play my Stratocaster for you. Whoa. Thank you. Thank you. Boomer lives. Monkey, La Fonda, cat angels everywhere. Yeah, I got a cold. Yeah, I got a cold. Yeah, I got a cold. It's just a cold. It's not COVID.

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