WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1288 - Cat Power

Episode Date: December 16, 2021

At one point, Chan Marshall was in a band called Cat Power. But it's appropriate for someone like Chan, who had to be self-reliant almost from birth, that she'd adopt the name as her own once the band dissolved. Chan and Marc talk about her rebirth as Cat Power, the Atlanta music scene in the early ‘90s, carrying trauma throughout her life, and finding out that making music grounded her in something real for the first time. They also focus on her eclectic collections of cover songs as she prepares to release another album of them. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Death is in our air. This year's most anticipated series, FX's Shogun, only on Disney+. We live and we die. We control nothing beyond that. An epic saga based on the global best-selling novel by James Clavel. To show your true heart is to risk your life.

When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive. FX's Shogun, a new original series streaming February 27th, exclusively on Disney Plus. 18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing with cannabis legalization. It's a brand new challenging marketing category.

legalization. It's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Lock the gates! and ACAS Creative. What the fuck, buddies? What the fuck, Knicks? What's happening? I'm Mark Maron. This is my podcast.

WTF, how are you? No, seriously, how are you? Look at me. Look at me. How are you? No. No, that's not the answer. Look at me. Check in. Check in. Hey, it's just Christmas. It's just the holiday season. It's okay to put on a few.

Yeah, man. I mean, you just take it off in the new year or you won't or this might be the edge this might be the tipping point yeah i put on 10 pounds in like 2021 and now it's 2040 and my my my hazmat suit's a little tight but you know it's okay yeah it's got a little give on it's got the elastic on it these new ones are much better than the last ones man i could barely fucking you know my i couldn't get any like air and the sweat was ridiculous in the last one these are okay but yeah i put on a little weight back in 2021 that was about 15 20 years ago already you know what i mean but i'm glad these hazmat suits have elastic on them because, you know, we got to wear them pretty much all the time now. Hey, look, just take it easy.

All right. Don't freak out. It's the holidays. There's a lot of bad shit going on. But let's relax. Let's try to relax. I'm trying to relax. I'm trying to fucking be grounded, whatever that means.

Listen, Cat Power is on the show today her name sean marshall that's her name cat power is her stage name i believe we talk about that she's been putting out solo records for almost three decades now going back to her breakout album what would the community think yeah way back i think i picked up on her really. I missed it. I missed everything in New York. I missed her. I missed all of it. But that first covers record I loved. And then I went back and picked up the rest. Her album, she's got another covers album. This, I think, is her third one. The new one covers. It comes out next month, I think, and she'll be touring into the new year. it comes out next month I think and she'll be touring into the new year also listen to me I'm going to be at Largo on Tuesday next Tuesday December

21st doing the music and the comedy and if you'd like to come if you're in town come I don't know who the comedians are I got to figure out who the hell's in town I asked little Esther last night she's not going to be around I got to reel in some comics to be around. I got to reel in

some comics to be on the show. It's going to be me and Ned on drums, Brandon on bass, Jimmy Vivino on the other guitar. I've got a nice roster of songs selected. I believe we're going to be doing

Drifting by the original Fleetwood Mac with Peter Green. I believe I're going to be doing Drifting by the original Fleetwood Mac with Peter Green. I believe I want to do Help You Dream by The Blasters, which is one of my favorite songs. I generally just do songs that I like. I think we're going to do Long Black Veil, the band's version. I think we're going to do Run Run Rudolph, Chuck Berry, for the Christmas. I think we're going to do Run Run Rudolph, Chuck Berry for the Christmas. I believe I'm going to attempt to do Jealous Guy by John Lennon.

And I believe we're going to do some sort of stripped down version of Tears of a Clown by Smokey Robinson. That is a pretty eclectic mix of three chord songs, give or take a chord. That's my wheelhouse, baby. Let's not push it let's not complicate things let's just do three chords different tones different speeds different lyrics what else do you need huh you know i've been watching some comics who were pitched to me i don't know everybody anymore these kids well yeah and then i started to think like well that that reminds me of me a little bit this stuff and it got me back into my old cds you know like um from i don't know when i

did tickets still available tickets still available is fucking great look at me i'm ridley scott my cd tickets still available is fucking great that's a fucking great bunch of comedy there i was rapid paced i believe i was still in uh morning radio brain i guess it came out in 2006 so right so i would have recorded it oh that's right when before the life got terrible but i was still locked into that morning radio like frenetic brain thing the lucid kind of rage of it and i just listening to i just poking around in my own shit but i was listening to the clarity of the thing to the writing of the thing to the pace of the thing to all the stuff i was talking about a lot of politics in that one but but cutting man and and some real like solid bits of satire and and rage and. And I just listened to it.

I'm like, holy shit, man. I thought I was at the top of my game now, but I was at the top of my game then, and maybe I was. But I got in no way of assessing myself at that moment, 2006 or any time before that, or even yesterday, without thinking I didn't quite make the mark. But my point being is that I miss a lot of me. Once I'm through these things, I'm through them. It's almost like my whole life is like an argument I'm having. You know how when you have an argument and after the argument is over, you don't really remember the argument,

especially if you were a dick? Well, that's like most of my life is that I did all these things. I engaged with these audiences. I've had all these experiences, but it all seems so far away. It all seems not, not unreal, but just sort of like, yeah, it's behind me, but all this stuff is substantial work. And I never really assessed it in the time other than I'm doing this or this is okay. Or like I could have done better. So my experience with it at the time other than I'm doing this or this is okay or like I could have done better so my experience with it at the time was probably adversarial with myself and I don't know I just didn't give myself enough credit I always assumed I just was I was underappreciated which is true but I think some part of me thought that was because the work wasn't up to par. But I listened to fucking like a lot of tickets still available yesterday.

My CD from 2006. And it was fucking great. Like I was impressed with my thinking. And I don't give myself any credit. And everything just gets by me because I'm in this frenetic presence. And it's starting to fuck with me time-wise. But I got to check back in with myself a little bit so I can at least feel like I've done something as opposed to just eat through life like a fucking shark.

You know, just as soon as it gets behind me, it's behind me. And then it like, it fades so quickly into the rear view that I don't know if it was this morning or yesterday or a week ago. so quickly into the rear view that I don't know if it was this morning or yesterday or a week ago. I've got to start holding on to some of this stuff that I create in a way that I can appreciate it. I just feel like I'm going to approach it differently. I've been approaching things differently. Like Thanksgiving dinner, I did it differently and it was good. I enjoyed it more. That's all I'm doing. I think that's what I, maybe that's a general life note. Approach it differently. Appreciate what you're doing. Appreciate once you've done it, remember it for something you appreciated and then, you know, enjoy that

for a second and then move on as opposed to like, let's just do this. Let's just do it. I just want to get through it. Let's just do it. Let's do it i just want to get through it let's just do it let's do it okay that's that it's done that was pretty good what are we doing now let's try to fucking savor something dude we're in the second half here maybe even the fourth quarter so sean marshall cat power Cat Power, and I became odd friends. We started DMing in the midst of the early phase of my horrendous grief. She just reached out to me and kind of talked to me through some stuff and mostly texting. And I don't know, we took a long time for us to meet, but that was a couple years ago, I guess, or a year and a half ago,

and I've always liked her music and her singing and stuff. I didn't know a lot about her, but we became kind of friends. She came to the show. I saw her in Florida. I went to visit my mother, and that was the first time I met her. She was living down there,

and I went and had dinner with her, and I met her kid and hung out a bit, chatted it up. Then she came to a show when she was living down there i went and had dinner with her and i met her kid and uh hung out a bit chatted it up then she came to a show when she was touring this last go-round opening for alanis and uh garbage or whatever that tour was and she came to see me and dean up in portland with malchumus but i didn't know the whole story you know she's an interesting person gone through a lot of shit and this sort of uh it kind of took me back, you know, to that time in New York where you're coming up in New York or you're trying to come up in New York and you want to be part of the bigger thing. Or you just don't know where to, how to get in or how it works or who's doing what. And, you know, just that feeling of being in that city, you know, back in the late 80s and nineties and trying to make a go of it and how

fucking exciting that was. But see, that's another thing. When I was in it, I was like, come on, come on. When is it going to happen? What's going to happen? I don't think I appreciated fucking hardly anything in a way that wasn't other than just trying to get out of myself. I'm sorry. I'm drifting back. So anyway, when we finally got the opportunity, we tried to make this happen for a while to talk. It was good. It's almost like we're just continuing to get to know each other. So this is me talking to Sean Marshall. Her new album covers will be out January 14th, and she's already announced North American tour dates for next year starting January 16th.

Go check out catpowermusic.com for dates and details. And this is me and Sean talking. It's hockey season and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get an ice rink on Uber Eats. But iced tea, ice cream, or just plain old ice? Yes, we deliver those. Goal tenders, no.

But chicken tenders, yes. Because those are groceries, and we deliver those too. Along with your favorite restaurant food, alcohol, and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details.

Death is in our air. This year's most anticipated series, FX's Shogun, only on Disney+. We live and we die. We control nothing beyond that. An epic saga based on the global best-selling novel by James Clavel. To show your true heart is to risk your life.

When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive. FX's Shogun. A new original series streaming February 27th exclusively on Disney+. 18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. The last time I saw you was the only time I saw you. That's not true. I saw you in Portland, too. No, but, oh, that's right.

That's the last time. At the time before that was in Florida. We didn't really know each other, but we've been texting a long time. And we talked on the phone. Yeah, we talked a bit. Yeah, because we were sort of bonded in grief. Right? Because we had lost people, and you reached out and and then we were deep in the loss hole sending emojis trying to try to make each other feel better and then i finally met

you in miami and that was crazy that was crazy times for you we had steak but you're all panicked was i because yes because your real dad was coming oh yes that's correct right and it was the first time you'd seen him forever yeah i mean i'd seen him at like um i saw him a few years i saw him in a in a hotel room for about 10 minutes yeah and then i saw him like a few years earlier at a concert backstage yeah but But like spending actual time together had been like 30 years. 30 years. Yeah.

And it went okay, right? Yeah, it was intense. As soon as my little boy out of the car to go find him, because I had to valet the car. And so he knew where he was going, my little boy. And then I was like all flipping out

like yeah you know flipping out like emotional and then i hear tap tap tap on the window and i thought it was the valet it was my dad and then every ounce of fear or panic just like i felt like i was like four like a goo goo baby just smiling like gaga gaga and the trip was great yeah we fed the fish and talked and went to dinner went to when you know with the lunch hung out more went to dinner yeah went to breakfast and it was really super super super important to do and for him to hang out with with my son were you carrying a lot of uh resentment at that time not resentment just like you know i'd send a picture yeah of me and my little sister and he you know just said like who's that but uh but he's a sweet guy you know oh good well what was the last time

when did the that did he go away how old were you well i i didn't meet him or my mom till i was like four and a half either of them yeah because my um my my uh i guess the my grandmother told me that the you know the they had found her name on the birth certificate so they went on the you know the you know the thing where the phone book yeah and they called her so she went to pick me up what where would you just left somewhere just from the uterus that was it and then what you just they left you in the hospital or on a doorstep or yeah in the hospital yeah and i don't know where you know where they were but when i met them you know i it's like meeting God

or something like, or meeting the unicorn. So your grandmother stepped in? Yeah. And took you, who's mom, your mom's mom? Yes.

Now what about your mom? Where's she at? She's in North Carolina. I think she's doing well. So where did you start your consciousness? Oh my gosh, probably around, probably when my little brother Lenny was born.

He has cerebral palsy. And when I went to the hospital, I was six, and my stepfather and mother's son, and I saw, you know, he had just had open heart surgery. Oh, yeah. So he was a newborn and he had like, you know, the tubes and the, you know, he was in a controlled incubation compartment, whatever. A tank, a little bubble. Yeah, and all the different things, cords and stuff. And my stepdad had the, you know, no one can touch him,

so they have to put the gloves and yeah and i i um you know realized that there could be you know he was crying yeah you know and i realized then that that there i i didn't really understand i saw i realized that that there was real real real pain on on earth right at six you saw that so it wasn't just sort of like the the nature of absence now it was real pain that you saw that just witnessing being yeah completely uh you know vulnerable and hooked up yeah and that kind of opened you up to that yeah because i mean that kind of like you know it it's like all the things that like adults try to hide from their kids, you know, getting exposed to lots of stuff. Yeah.

And then that seemed fun, you know, like the bars and the shows and the, you know, all that stuff. You went to shows? Lots of different shows, lots of different. Because your folks were? Yeah, in bands. They were both in bands? Musicians, yeah. Really?

My stepdad and my father, yeah. What kind of music was the original father? The original father is still a solo musician in Atlanta. And he. Guitar player? No, I mean he can. Yeah. But he's more of like a piano lounge you know he'll

do covers and you know that's he's been doing that since i've known him so he's still a working lounge act yeah i mean he was in a band in the 80s he was in a band in the um moby grape i guess they were yeah you know right then he was in this band called Brick Wall. But I guess Moby Grape, when they came out with five singles at once. Yeah. And my dad's band, Brick Wall, had a single come out. But Moby Grape's singles just like, no one gave it, you know, they were just like focusing on collecting the singles. They got buried by Moby Grape is what you're saying? Uh-huh.

And then what kind of musicians your stepdad? He was, you know, he played music with Dwayne Allman. They were really close. Really? Yeah,

they lived in Jamaica together briefly. Him and Dwayne? It's weird, these guys like Dwayne Allman, like he was dead at 27 or so. Yeah.

And, well, I'm just assuming that's the age that they all died at. Maybe he was even younger. I don't know. I think he was younger.

Where did they get time to live in fucking Jamaica? I mean, what was I doing in my mid-20s? But you seem to have gotten around. But I wasn't moving to Jamaica in my 20s. It just seems that those people of that time period lived these amazingly adventurous and rich, complicated lives before they were even 30. So he played with Dwayne. What is he like? I mean, he was his buddy, you know?

So, you know, Georgia's a real small town, you know? So like, you know what I mean? Which part of Georgia? Well, just Atlanta. So they were around? Well, if you didn't go to like, you know, New York or the Haight, you were kind of like in Atlanta. You'd take the train or the bus.

Or Nashville. Or Nashville wasn't cool yet, right? Not really. Not Atlanta. I mean, not Nashville. It was hot Atlanta, you know. Yeah. It was just happening.

Oh, was it? In the 70s, yeah. And that's where you did most of your growing up? Well, yeah, I guess. Yeah, I moved, you know. We kept moving around. Because of the musician thing? Because of my stepdad's job.

He worked for American Racing, which is like a mag wheel company. And then he started working for Progressive Wheels. So he'd go to set up warehouses along the East Coast. See, you were part of car culture as well? No, nah. No? He just sold wheels? Mm-hmm.

All floating. For race cars? Mm-hmm. Off-loading. For race cars? Whatever. Oh. Whoever. Wheels. Mm-hmm. But he also played what?

He played guitar? Guitar. Yeah, Les Paul. I think 1960. Is that where you learned guitar? No. But I used to, you know, I don't know what, you know, just make noise. Feedback on the Marshall.

It was in a closet. The Marshall? Yeah. You had, what, a know, just make noise. Feedback on the Marshall. It was in a closet. The Marshall? Yeah. Yeah, what, a half stack or a whole stack? It was, it wasn't a stack. Oh, self-contained? Yeah. Solid state Marshall?

No, because it had... Had the tubes? Yeah. Yeah. And it was all ratted and silver and it was so fucking loud. Really? Yeah. They are loud.

They're so loud. I know. I can can't take it my ears got fucked up i've blown out my ears a couple of times yeah in this room yeah with that stupid amp with that that's amazing amp it is like it's a it's an old fender but like you you got it to get the sound that makes it great you gotta crank. And you have to go through like a hundred of them to find the one. Keith's got like 500,000 of them. I don't. I didn't go. I'm not a pro. You know what I mean?

That's it. That one and that Fender Champ by the door, which fried. Yeah, I do love the champ. Guy's got to fix it. I got this guy, he fixes them. And he fucking tweaked that thing and it just melted. All of a sudden I smelled something burning

and it went away. It of a sudden I smelled something burning and it went away. It stopped. It stopped working. So, all right. So this is a complicated upbringing you have. So your mom, but at least you had a relationship with your mom, which you kind of know. All right. So wherever you're at, you were set to wander, hence the title of your last record.

At what age were you just sort of like, all right, I got to figure this shit out? When did you start playing? I was in high school, and I went to the cramps, and spitting and snarling and wow you know his guitar was so cool and I never seen a guitar like that and and they blew my mind and the band was called Flat Duo Jets right and I never you know never, you know, whatever. And, you know, I didn't care. I mean, of course, the cramps were great. The cramps. I just went, you know, I went to a different, you know, so.

That guy. And you became friends with that guy? Later, yeah. My roommate, he introduced me to him at a show in Athens. Because he was in this band, my best friend, my roommate, Robert Hayes. He was in this band called the Jody Grind in Atlanta. And the guitar player from that band, Bill Taft, is in a band now for a minute called Waiting for UFOs.

And Bill was in this other band called Smoke. So Robert introduced me to Dex. And then so Dex started calling the house and he'd like, call and be playing the piano, beautiful, classically trained, you know. And you're in high school? Well, no, this is after, this is, you know, my dad, I was, I had, I had to, I had to not live with my dad anymore. So luckily I already knew. The real dad or the second dad? The real dad. Oh, okay. So I was 11th grade. So I had to, you know, move out of the house.

And I had already had a job. And so I already knew how to work. Several jobs. I already knew how to work. And what were the jobs? What were the... I worked at this place, Oshlotsky's. Oh, Oshlotsky's.

Yeah, that was like the... Big round sandwiches. Yeah, I ate so much food there. Yeah, that's what you remember? Yeah, it was great. So, like, you know, you got to make, like, no one ever came in there because it was a new company. I remember when they came out. Are we somewhere age?

I don't want you to have to tell me, but I remember when Shrushlotsky's opened. Shrushlotsky's? Shrushlotsky's. Well, I know when the first one showed up in Albuquerque, we were like, wow. They were sort of based on muffalita sandwiches, right? Yeah, that makes sense. Right, on New Orleans sandwiches. So we thought it was this great new technology, sandwich technology. And we were all very excited for five minutes.

I got a job at the Stein Printing Company, which is actually where my dad worked in the 70s. But anyway, I got a job being a you know you get a you have to they make reams of paper whatever so you have a big box of like all these colors right purple green blue pink and you have to you have to you know put the purple green blue pink yellow white you know purple green blue so they can make a ream of the different colored paper yeah so i did that like all the time and then that's when my dad was like okay you need to go find a place to live with your sister my big sister mandy and so luckily she's doing she's all right you know she lives across the street from my mom and um she's married and travels a lot her husband's a truck driver so

they spent a lot of time on the road. Uh-huh. But you were inspired by that guy. The emoting. Yeah. So, well, it was just, I don't know if it was emoting. It was like, is this God or is this Satan? Like, it was really extreme.

Do you come from a- It was art, you know. Oh, yeah. It wasn't posturing the spitting and the snarling. He was actually, like, you know, possessed. Were you able to answer that question eventually? Which one? Is it God or is it Satan?

Ah, just human. How much God and Satan did you grow up with? Yeah. Too much. Way too much. Really? Which form? Human. Yeah. Really? Which form? Human.

Yeah, what was the religion? It was Southern Baptist. A lot of Satan. Not a lot of God, a lot of Satan. Yeah, yeah. Demons, a lot of demons. That was wired into you? Very, very much so, yeah.

Did you have to get it out of you you know i had to get um i had to get laughed at by my ex he's born and raised in japan doesn't really have a any sort of knowledge of religion you know and i was just like having kind of like a supreme meltdown of like fear like super fear of like of damnation of just like i don't know just like a you know how much anxiety can you right you know carry around yeah as an adult and i was just said something about you know god or satan or, and he just started fucking laughing. He was just laughing at me, just like he couldn't stop laughing. Yeah.

And then I realized that I assimilated, like, when you're a little kid, God, Satan, Easter Bunny, Santa Claus. You know, I was able to, you know, they say with, like, when you have... Find the spectrum? bunny santa claus you know i was able to you know they say with like when you have finding the spectrum well when you have like post-traumatic stress you can do like cognitive therapy so i yes i chose to look you know because they always say like you can't have god without a devil or something so i'd always like stick them together in my mind like you know god satan easter bunny santa like sure just to get through it. So I got another job. I was out of high school.

Out of no more paper? And my friend, this guy I knew in this band, Todd Furster, in this band called Donkey. Yeah. The guitar player was in this band with my boss at the time, Clay Harper. They were in a band called The Coolies from Atlanta. From the paper place? No, I was at Fellini's Pizza at this point. Oh,

okay. And, so anyway, this guy Todd Furster was selling his Silver Tone and I didn't play guitar and didn't want,

didn't want to own a guitar but it was the same guitar that Dexter had. The guy you first saw in high school? The guy, yeah, like a year and a half earlier.

The guy who I saw the Flat Dojo Jets. You had the cathartic white light experience. I was like, like a piece of art. I was like, you know, it's from the 50s. It's beautiful. Yeah. You know, and I was like, it costs 70 bucks.

So I was saving my money to hold on. And so I used to stick it in my corner of my apartment. Yeah. Slowly but surely turned 19 and started like getting bored with life. And like, I don't have any money to go to the movies you know whatever so on my days off i would just like you know just play you know just pluck it not knowing where to put my fingers yeah and that's how i started and that's how you figured out some stuff some stuff yeah no lessons just no the dudes all the dudes at felini's it was all everybody was in a band all the dudes

were in bands in atlanta all every one of them yeah and all of them yeah you know i could show you how to play guitar you know if you come over tonight you know hey you gotta let me teach you how to so it was like not only did i not want to play like them right i didn't, you know. So you think you evolved. Did you eventually figure out some stuff, obviously? Yeah, yeah. You know, I'd watch certain, because there was a lot of bands back then, really great bands. What year are we talking? We're talking, fuck. 90?

90. Yeah. Yeah, 90, 91, 92, 93, 94. But I moved to New York in 92. But there's some great bands, and I could see how their hands were. This is before, like, YouTube videos. Sure. But I moved to New York in 92. But there's some great bands. And I could see how their hands were. This is before YouTube videos where you learn how to do stuff. But I could see how they'd be holding their hands.

Just from going to shows? Yeah. So all you did was go to shows? Oh, yeah. But I also had to work every night till 2. So I very rarely got to go to shows. At the pizza joint? Yeah, Fellini's.

Fellini's Pizza. Clay Harper's Place. Still there? He has a great solo record. He has the new one, but the last one, so good. I think I told you about it. He loves you, too. Oh, yeah?

Yeah. Does he still have the pizza place? He sold it. He's loaded. He is? From the pizza place? Yeah, he's a great guy, sober, 30 years. From the pizza place he's loaded? Yeah, he was in the place great guy sober 30 years from the pizza place

he's yeah he was in the coolies the coolies he was my boss right so when do you start writing songs sean 19 19 years old and by that point you know a few chords i'm not sure i'm i think i'm not i really don't know yeah but how does it like how does like cat power manifest uh cat there was a cap this man was wearing a cap um i was playing i like to play drums i like to play whatever after work with my friends that are in bands yeah go devils um different bands so you're like a rock kid in the five points scene hanging out with all the dudes and girls who are part of that fucking there weren't a lot of girls there were two girls sweaty smoking just you know we're all working we're all broke yeah you know yeah we're all you know. But the problem is that heroin just took a hold of the city, of everybody.

When was that? 90? That was probably 91 is when it really took a hold. Did it start killing people? No. Everyone started dying later, but like 92, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97. That tar shit? But the addiction started like 91.

Things got ugly. Everyone got strung out? Everyone was getting strung out. And I didn't do it. I wasn't a, you know. Heroin person? I was a heroin addict. So it didn't, anyway, so.

Didn't take. I don't think that I was... I feel like I was naive to it. Yeah. Because I hadn't been around that type of addiction. Right. Is that when you took off? 92, yeah.

Because my friend Mark, Mark Moore, he was in a ton of bands in Atlanta, an amazing guitar player. He was always like, Sean, we have to start a band. We start a band. We start a band. We start a band. We start a band.

I don't want to start a band. I like playing drums when we're drunk after work. And then Damon Moore, whose girlfriend worked at Wax and Fax around the corner, she was in a band called Dirt. She was in Seersucker. So I kept telling my friend Mark, you're annoying me. Stop. Because he's asking you to get in a band? Yeah, all the time. She was in Seersucker. So I kept telling my friend Mark, like, you're annoying me. Stop, you know. Because he's asking you to get in a band?

Yeah, all the time. And so he says, we had already jammed together, you know, a couple times. And he said, if you start a band, if you start a band with me, Damon says he'll start the band. He'll join the band. And him and Jennifer had broken up at that point. And I was just like,on was the most gentle he was like real stoic sweet kind gentle like good you know yeah calm yeah amazing guitar player so sweet and cool and kind and i was like really like i couldn't believe that and then and then he goes and if glenn my father figure character he was

like and glenn said that if damon starts joins the band that the hill joined the band and i was like glenn what will he play and he said drums and i was like well glenn's not a drummer you know he's a rock critic but whatever yeah so and uh and we'd already you know jammed a couple times together and so that's why he was... And then Fletcher. He's like, Fletcher said he'll join the band. Fletcher. Fletcher was in King Kill 33 and a lot of other bands.

King Kill 33? I know where that name comes from. Do you know where that name comes from? Is it from a Pussycat Fester Fest? No. No. I don't know. It's from a...

King Kill 33, The Greek degree latitude is a strange piece of writing done by a guy named james shelby downward i think his name is about the masonic symbolism and the killing of john f kennedy oh really yeah you gotta talk to rob schnapp do i from mant about his brother what about his brother and the killing of, the assassination of JFK. Really? Yeah. It'd be a great. I don't know.

I don't know if I need to talk to him about that. Pew, pew, pew. Yeah. I don't know if I, I think I'm good with the neural pathways I have. I don't need to worm any other ones. Oh, no. I don't need to make any new rabbit holes in my brain. So these are your guys

so so he said so he said and we need a name for our band because we have a show on thursday night yeah and he said um and we want you to come up with the name and there's this old man that worked on the you know the the trains in atlanta real big dude huge hands. His hands were like two giant callus balls. Yes, yes. And he must have been maybe 88. Yeah. And he was wearing a Cat Diesel power cap that he's had since 1952.

Yeah. And I usually give him a slice and he'd get a pint. Right. So he'd pay for the pint. And he's standing there and I'm like, one second. On the phone, he's like, and they want you to come up with the name of the band. I'm kind of like so overwhelmed.

And he says, and I'm like, me, why do I have to go? Because you're the lead singer. Why am I? Because you're a girl. And I said, cat power. And hung up the phone. And then about, and Glenn from Low Life. Yeah.

Father figure, he worked at Kinko's. That's how he made all his fanzines. Yeah. So about an hour later, they come walking in. And I saw them outside. You know, I don't know what they're doing. The band? Well, Mark and Glenn.

And so I see them doing something to the post. Yeah. And it looks like they're putting something up, you know. And they come inside. He's got like a camel. Glenn's got a camel unfiltered. And he's like, hi, Sean. Yeah.

And he's putting tape on the thing. And I'm like, what the fuck is that? And Mark's like, maybe yeah and he's putting tape on the thing and i'm like what the fuck is that and mark's like maybe you want to like leave these here and it said it said uh it said um it's a cat power live live opening up for flap which is of course yeah you heard of flap they're amazing they're uh um you know classically trained they use the um acoustic guitar and they do like you know black metal heavy they use the acoustic guitar and they do like you know

black metal heavy metal covers and this and that but they have their own songs yeah they just I just got to see them in August

I feel so with waiting for UFOs it was out of the loop so fun you have to next time it happens I'll let you know

so much fun I don't do enough live music it's so fun they do it in the front yard of like this artist is it here no it's in Atlanta oh well I don't do enough live music. It's so fun. They do it in the front yard of this artist. Is it here? No, it's in Atlanta.

Oh, well, I have to go to Atlanta to see it? Yeah, it's so fun. You don't have a house in Atlanta anymore, do you? I do, but I sold it. Oh, okay. I get it. You're down by the water now in Florida. Yeah, I'm about to get out of there, too, because it all the, you know, the Trumps came out of the woodwork.

Sure. So where are you going to go now? I can't decide. I can't decide if it's like. You thinking about coming back here? I can't decide. Okay. If it's like Portugal.

Portugal. Denmark. Denmark. Upstate. So you're out. You know, I'm not sure what to do. So that's upstate New York or Portugal or Denmark? Sicily or upstate New York or, you know, Santa Barbara.

That's a lot of different kinds of options. I know, and I don't know what to do. Do you prefer dirty? I love dirty and I like dry. So nothing rural, maybe? I like rural, but I like water a lot. I like water. I like desert and water.

Got it. That's two totally different things. I know. I know. That's why Sicily's, you know. Sicily, I get nervous when I can't speak the language. No tiene. No tiene.

Oh, you can handle it? No capito. Have you been to Sicily? You just have to, no, no, no, wait, mama, mama. It'll work out. And you get it. Have you been to Sisui? You just have to, no, no, no, wait, mama, mama, it'll work out. And you get it. Have you been to Sisui?

It's a point. Of course. Yeah. Yeah? You've been everywhere. Not Russia and not Israel, not Russia,

not Cuba, not... I've been to Israel. Not... Russia, no Russia. Not West Africa and not... I've been to Israel. Not... Russia. No Russia. Not West Africa and not... China?

I've been there a couple times. Where? Beijing? Hong Kong? Beijing, Shanghai. Shanghai. You know, the regular stops, but not Hong Kong. All for gigs?

All for gigs, yeah. All for gigs. Yay. All for gigs. So this first Cat Power outfit, how long were you with them? Did they make it through the first record? About six months. Oh.

And the heroin and everything just kind of took over. Were you playing all original songs? Yeah, there was a Dekroitsin cover. Our first show was at the Claremont Lounge in Atlanta. It was never a big venue yeah you know so and it was all our friends

and that's what Robert my old roommate the first show where I was like I'm not are you he's like what time's your thing

at the flap thing yeah the first one I was like I'm not fucking going to that you know and he was like ah you're a fucking chicken

yeah he's like I hear you in your fucking room singing these little songs yeah you're just a chicken. Yeah. He's like, I hear you in your fucking room singing these little songs. Yeah. You're just a chicken. It made me feel bad. And we were like,

you know, our big thing was drinking black coffee and smoking weed. Yeah. At night. And so it made me feel bad. So he drove me down there and the cops were there

and show's over. It's not happening. And all these college kids. And I didn't go. I don't know college people. And I was like, so I think it was flaps audience were there. And I was but I could hear I could hear them all playing down there. So I was going to go warn them like the cops are here.

Yeah. And I walked down and they're just like, you know, it's their moment. Yeah. And I just left them there yeah so my roommate passed away suddenly in a car accident and um he was in love with this girl he's in love with a few girls but and he was 24 when he passed but uh he um i had to call a mutual friend of ours from tennessee lily She had moved to New York from Atlanta. And she had like bullshitted Virgin Records and like walked in and said, you know, I am a manager.

And I've put out. She just, her whole resume was a complete lie. And that afternoon she was driving Iggy Pop around for interviews. Like she got a job at Virgin Records. Whatever. Making like a ton of money. Yeah. And then quit so she could work hospice for aids um

you know um patients yes but anyway so i called her and i said you know robert has passed and anyway so she contacted me a couple weeks later and she said that there's a room open that really kind of like i was already going through stuff like with people like, you know, like being like turning into little monsters sort of with the drugs. And I was sensitive, I guess, because I really cared about, you know what I mean? Yeah. People you care about. Yeah. And so and she's like, Sean, what?

I have a room open in New York City. She lived on. We lived on 4th between A and B. And she's like, come, come check out this room. I was like, I can't live in New York City. She lived on, we lived on fourth between A and B and she's like, come, come check out this room. I was like, I can't live in New York City. Like I can't afford that. So I saved up my money and I bought a ticket and I went up there and, um, had so much fun, just hung out with her on the fire escape and you know, and, um, fourth between A and B. I lived on second between A and B. I still live on A and b oh really yeah but uh yeah that's

cool so what year was that was i there that was 92 so i went back just leaving and i one month later like i sold all my little shithole stuff yeah in atlanta in atlanta told my told cat power that i was you know there's just no band. You guys can do the band. I'm out of here. I'm going to do it. I told my boss, my work, blah, blah. And so I saved up like $1,500 or whatever. And you went to New York?

And I went to New York. And the week or three days before I went to New York, Glenn Thrasher from Low Life, from WRAK, fully addict at that time and i was naive to his problem yeah because i loved him so much you know but i was pissed you know how he was transforming sure and he said sean um i'm moving to new york too and i was like what and he said i got a job as a secretary of the vice president of the Yeshiva Law School.

Really? Yeah, and so he ended up moving there the same week. What the fuck? Yeah, and so then, so that was my friend, because I'm going to not be friends with my friend, who I'm terribly worried about. He must have gotten worse there. Yeah, uh so he started taking me to different things like abc no rio you know and like different like you know free jazz this and that stuff yeah and like i was with this jazz

sax player in south africa i lived there for a few months, but fell in love with this guy. And he turned me on to like that record Crescent by John Coltrane. One day we were at ABC No Rio and he's like, Sean, you know, we can play here anytime we want. And I was like, play here. And he's like, yeah, just you and me. And I was like, play here. You know, like I'm trying to like figure out what he means. Cause like, like, what do you mean play here because like the dudes are in atlanta and you know i you don't really even play drums and like you know whatever and so that was our first show were you doing your stuff uh yeah and that was sort of the the first new york event did you tape it no but at that time you had no idea. You didn't know the direction you were going. So you meet that guy from

Matador Records and you don't... I didn't know. Nothing registered. No, no, no, no, no. So when did you finally put together a set of songs? Well, I always had some songs, you know. Yeah? And then when does it happen? We got Fletcher,

Mark and Damon to come up from Atlanta and we got uh uh fletcher uh mark and damon to come up from you know atlanta and we got to play cbs together i don't remember who was on the bill and then it became me and glenn alone and then i got a um alert alert alert alert you know glenn's like you know help you know the cops are after me and this and that uh-huh got him some dope, got him on the plane, got him to Atlanta. Sharon and Craig were like, you know, how could you not tell us that he was an addict? And I was like, I had no idea that was a duh-duh-duh. But he's like, when they're going through withdrawals, either, you know, could die and it looks like they're dying, you know. So I didn't know what to do.

He was begging me, please do that. Get him dope? Yes, so he could get on the plane and be functional, whatever. And you did. Instead of him going to jail, you know, because he was in big trouble. Oh, and he made it out? Is he still around? Yeah.

Okay. Yeah, he works at Acapella Books. So a year later, I get a voicemail from Sharon saying, hey, I got an email from you. I don't know what email is. I go to their apartment. It's a computer. It has a thing. It's a letter.

It's from Italy. Yeah. It says, I would like to do a record with you. I love your single. A really good typer. Yeah. I made straight A's in art and typing. Yeah.

And I was like, I'm not a band. Thank you so much see you later yeah and then uh about three weeks later i get an answer machine on the thing message from sharon saying hi sean i hope you won't be mad at me but i booked you a solo show um um at um at next Sunday at CBGB's gallery. Call me. And I was just like, I was really, I was bummed out. Really?

Yeah, like it felt like. You're being pressured? No, just like manipulate. It felt like, it just felt like, you know, I didn't understand much. I didn't trust people, didn't know people. Yeah. I only knew, like, who I knew, and I did my work. I had all these jobs. I didn't, you know, I wasn't, I didn't used to look at people in the eye a lot back then.

Uh-huh. Like, super shy. Yeah. And mentally, like, my mental health was very questionable. Oh, yeah. Every day, you know. In what way? Just like, you know, super, just like you know super like all that

stuff remember like satan god santa you know all that stuff you don't you know you don't really you know you don't know who to talk to sure trust yeah talk about crazy thoughts right because like if you know if if god and satan are real then fuck all this other shit is real yeah you know what i mean then what isn't yeah if you open then what isn't real you know so so you were struggling with reality struggling yeah with my private thoughts around people who seem to have everything together all the time and so you had to keep that to yourself? All the time. So did the songwriting help that?

Yeah, a lot, yeah. And when you were able to sing, did it help that? Yeah, I think so. I just didn't like to sing. I felt like it was so personal or whatever. I feel the same way, but I'm not a singer. It scares the hell out of me. Well, then I got sober in 2006 when the greatest record came out.

That's a great record, by the way. Thank you. All those records from the greatest backwards, I was like suicidal. I think you can hear that on some of the records. Yeah, I know. Well, I've never actually, you know. It's interesting. I never realized it was that factual that that that

was actually the case like that it never went it was just a part of my personality from like being young to to to you know 30 something years old you know the idea of of suicidal suicidal ideation well that someone could hide that you know and it just be a fabric of their thoughts all the time did you think do you think it was like a clinical depression or absolutely and stress you know like sure sure because like i listened to a lot of the records yeah fear sure all this stuff well i mean they're so much like the first few records are so you know uh kind of vulnerable and raw and you know even without even if i don't listen to the words just the tone of your voice and the tenor of the music and i wasn't singing i was just like yeah i was just like

you know um i did this anyway in 2012 i got this did this thing where I had this autoimmune thing pop up. What was that? It's called HAE, angioedema. And basically, my esophagus, different parts, like my eyeball, the membrane of my eyeball would swell up. But my whole esophagus would swell up and I can't breathe. In like 45 minutes or an hour and a half, I can asphyxiate. Oh, my God. Is there medicine for it?

There is. It's an herb. It's called Apis. A-P-I-S. It's what you take normally for bee stings. Okay. But it's brought on by extreme, extreme stress. But I had a friend that in L.A.

She's from Argentina, but she goes to church and she goes to non-denominational church. There was a lady, a minister at her church who was like, you know, is there someone in the audience who knows somebody who's a singer? She's got short blonde hair. I had short blonde hair at the time. She needs help right now. And if anybody knows her, I need to talk to you. And so my friend went and talked to her and she said, I need to talk to her on the phone today as soon as possible. so my friend from peru my best friend she said hey can i bring her over yeah and i can't even talk because the tubes you know when you go into intensive care anyway so i can't even talk i'm super delirious and so she hands me the phone and she says hey

honey and she's southern yeah she says hey can you, you know, can I talk to you for a second? And I was like, sure. She said, do you believe in God? And I was like, I believe Jesus is real, you know, a real human, you know. And she goes, okay, perfect. She said, do you mind if I pray with you? And I said, sure. I can't really even talk.

My throat hurts so bad. And she starts praying, you know. And I hear like, I think it's my friend's phone. It's like a flip phone. Yeah. And I think the signal must be bad because it goes. And I was like, oh, and I wanted to say something like that. But she keeps praying.

So I didn't say anything. And then like listening and praise a little louder. And then the phone again. And I was like okay and then and then all of a sudden i had to cough really bad yeah cough and she's praying she's praying a little more like a little like it's just her case she's almost like singing she's praying comfortably long and uh and so i really had to cough and i I was like, as soon as I was about to cough, in the phone, there was a voice on the phone went. And I was like, I want to say that wasn't me, but I didn't.

But she started praying a little faster. And then the phone went. And then I heard a few more coughs. Yeah. Different people, different voices. Right. And then she really started praying. Yeah.

And then I kind of was like, this real what's happening you know and then i like didn't have to cough and then i was like you know what i'm gonna spit open the window and she's really like and the body of christ and it's like in the i start spitting and my friends are looking at me and i'm like yeah spitting out the window yeah. And she's praying so fast. And there's like about, I'd say, 40 different human beings that are coughing in the phone. Uh-huh. And then she wound up, we both said amen at the same time. And she's like, how do you feel, darling?

And I was like, I feel fine. And my throat didn't hurt. She's like, okay, well okay well you know you come and see me at the dinner i was like okay and she hung up so i handed her the phone and i could talk and my throat didn't hurt and i haven't had nightmares i had nightmares my whole entire really oh yeah all the people coming in my room different stuff like awfulness and i hadn't since my son is that was before my son was born in 2012 yeah I started having nightmares about eight months after he was born 2015 and I oh that's when they started again yeah

but different oh yeah more like like not not like that not not not not so scary. More like just like presence. Have you ever been treated? You mean psychologically? Yeah. Yes, I have. I've been treated for, I've been treated by three different, really quickly. Yeah. Like I need help, like, you know, having a nervous breakdown from stress and fear and depression.

And I don't know who to talk to, you know. Yeah. So I've gone to a few different people, doctors for help, and each one said, oh, you're bipolar, you're bipolar, you're bipolar, you need this medication. The other one said, you need this medication. The other one said, you need this medication. And so when I made the very apparent decision that I needed to, you know, not do drugs and alcohol. That was in 2006. And I went to a therapist that I was actually able to communicate with and talk to about things and about, you know, like day-to-day stuff touching on some past things and people who were in my life at

this time and getting me to acknowledge certain behaviors and reactions and after doing that for a long time uh he told me 2008 right before i moved to la he had put me on an antidepressant mild antidepressant a low dose or whatever yeah and he said i really need to pull you off of that because you're not even a depressive personality type you you're suffering from just ptsd you need cognitive behavioral therapy you don't need you know you're not even a depressive personality type so it was just it was just stress that I couldn't handle. Was that a relief? Oh, man. I was, yes. Totally. Absolutely.

And you were able to track? I was the happiest I ever was in my life, I think. When you were out here? And then I moved. It was right before I moved out here. And you were able to track it? Like the source of the trauma and the reactions? Yeah.

I'd been like, you know, I never talked about anything in my, like, life. Yeah. I said, like, one little thing when I was 21. Right. You know, I never, you know, and it took years to say something when I was, like, maybe 29. About your life? Yeah. Oh, the.

I don't usually talk about it. The source of. The stuff, yeah. But it's okay. Uh-huh. Everybody has their thing. Yeah. You know?

But you were able to talk about it with that guy. Yes. And he was good at like being able to like, you know, like show me that how I was feeling was, you know, how I was feeling then. Mm-hmm. And then I was carrying that feeling. You were reacting to it your whole life. Yes. I get it. As if it was happening now. Yes. Again and again and again. So you're constantly in that state?

Well, certain things would trigger that state, you know? Yeah. Panic, fear, you know, self-doubt and like, but mostly based on like fear. It's all fear driven, you know. Sure. I was able to sort of like. Panic. Well, I was able to, yeah, it was always fear based. Uh-huh.

It was always just that feeling of fear and I was able to like objectify the feeling of panic and narrow it down to the, it's just, I feel afraid and I have to think about, now why do i feel afraid right now and you figure you have to look at the points of like i'm totally safe right i'm in a safe environment right i've put myself around a safe person and all that kind of stuff so that was the cognitive work the the other the being able to object to be able to understand how i'm feeling right and define it and to look at it so So would you say like then, yeah, the bulk of those.

And breathing. Yes. Yes. So when you look at the first like three or four records, are you like, that's me just barely keeping it together and trying to reckon with all these things that I haven't defined yet. Right. Give it voice. all these things that I haven't defined yet. Right.

Give it voice. I think the options when you're struggling, no matter how old you are, whether or not you're in tune with yourself or not, we always try to find an option out of the pain or the fear, whether we know ourselves or not, whether we're young or old. We always attempt to flee you know through something or fight it you know so i think that is what it was was being able to to to sit with it and sing and play was a way to like guide guide like this sort of inner hostility you know out of myself like an exorcism sort of i don't know if that word needs to be used no but you know like a processing like if i were like because i used to love to like you know i love to sew i love to like you know you know knit and

needlepoint and paint and write and, you know, basketball and tennis. And I love to do things, you know, food and cooking. Like, I love to do things. And as an active mind, you know, you, all those things are like tools. They're creative parts of us, you know. You know what I mean? Yeah. Sure.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, they, well, if you enjoy them, they ground you in something real yes and that guitar and those songs are something real yeah and then i can move on to like the other real stuff right you know so is your uh reading your doorway into real into the present yeah just exactly right yeah okay exactly correct i didn't know how they were gonna sound uh-huh you know Into the present. Yeah, just exactly. Oh, right. Yeah. Okay. Exactly correct. I didn't know how they were going to sound. Uh-huh.

You know? And were you surprised that the world took to you or that the world... I was only surprised when I was met. I was surprised, yes. I was consistently always, always surprised. But there were advantages. Like that night I played that solo show because I was watching The Simpsons. I had two TVs, one color, one black and white.

Yeah. And I picked up the- Just because? Yeah, because I could watch Channel 13 on the black and white all the time because I always had something. Yeah. And always the news was on the color one. Yeah. And if I ever wanted to watch one or the other,

I could turn the mute on one and, you know, just. You just like having company? Well, I mean, there was some great shit

like I learned about Malcolm X from the PBS Channel 13 New York TV. Oh, so the black and white one was the local antenna pickup?

Yeah, that was Channel 13 and the color was like Simpsons. The cable? No, there was no cable. Oh, okay. It was on regular television.

Okay, so you performed that night and you watched it. Well, no, so I got home from work and I had my tie on. I worked at this place called the, whatever, Carnegie Hill Cafe, 92nd, Madison Avenue, between 92nd and 93rd. Uh-huh. And I still have dreams about like showing up to work and being like, can I work? And like then being like, no, because that's how I got my job there.

I'd show up like. Yeah. I'd just show up. Yeah. So by the end of it, like the eighth time, the chef came out and she's like, are you the one that keeps coming up here and asking for a fucking job you're hired yeah you just chose that place well because my new nyu roommates out of that hotel that hotel that apartment on fourth street my friend lily moved away yeah and she left the one who came from the hospice aides work was georgia right from tennessee originally but yeah

it was like given her she was breaking down, she couldn't handle the mental stress of the hospice person, all these friends passing away. Okay. Blah, blah, blah. So I got off work, got to the 6 train, walked to my apartment, shut the door, had the village voice, turned on my TVs. It's Sunday. It's 8 o'clock.

Something's coming on. Took off my fake clip-on, baby blue satin tie. No, it wasn't a clip-on. It was a real tie. Sorry, but I've had clip-ons. Anyway, it was a commercial break

and Simpsons commercial break and I opened the Village Voice. I was pretending that I wasn't looking, but I knew I was looking for the CBGB's gallery. It was a CBGB's gallery and it said 8.30 Cat Power village voice i was like pretending that i wasn't looking but i knew i was looking for the cbgb's gallery it was a cbg's gallery and it said 8 30 cat power solo and i was like ha ha ha and i shut the magazine i felt you know it was that night yeah on sunday i was like i'm i'm not going and then i thought of like my friend who i'd become friends with, Gerard Cosloy. He'll be there. Jeff Cash, man, this art noise friend. And then Harry Drew's, Bartender from Max Fish.

And I thought, oh, fuck, they're going to pay $3. Fuck. So I grabbed my guitar. I didn't have a case. And my amp. And I just walked two blocks, whatever it was. And went and played my songs. I worked at the Xerox tour called Todd's Copy and Jim Jarmusch's assistant.

Her name was Birgit. Yeah. And so I was kind of nervous. I saw Henry. I mean, sorry, Harry Drews. Yeah. He was there. So I was right about that.

Jeff was there. Anyway, and I just waited for her on the steps. And I watched this woman, Birgit, because she was assistant for Jim. And she was playing an jim and she was playing a accordion yeah i think she was kind of like nina hoggan you know yeah but it was kind you know and you know like it was like oh i i can play here yeah like it was kind of nuts i can you know do my little oh if she can do that i can do that you know, do my little. Oh, if she can do that, I can do that. You know what I mean? Yeah. You knew it was a free zone.

Yes. Yeah. Very safe. And so I got back. And there was an answer. How'd the gig go? How'd you feel about it? You don't know. I just.

There is a video of that, though. Yeah. She videotaped it. Yeah. But I got home, pressed. There was a blinking message. And it was Gerard. And he said, hey, Sean.

It's Gerard. Sorry, Mr. Show, tonight. Do you want to open up? And on the cover of that, you know, Village Voice, it was this girl named Liz Fair. I don't know who that is. I didn't know who that was. And she had her legs spread. You know, she was standing on two twin beds, you know, jumping up or whatever with a guitar.

I didn't know who that was. But he said, Do you want to open up for Loose Fair on Thursday night? You'll get $200 and you won't be billed and you only play 20 minutes. And I was like, B, B. Hey, yeah, great. Can they pay me cash? And he's like, don't worry. Because I didn't have a checking account.

And he's like, yeah, don't worry about that. And that's where i met at sound check um i mean not billed 20 minutes 200 bucks yeah and i bust on my ass to maybe get 70 bucks a day working three jobs assistant xerox yeah cafe so i show up and i go to the sound check and i didn't know about dressing rooms or nothing, you know. And so I'm at Princeton Amp anyway, and I go and I do my sound check. And the Silverton? Yeah. Yeah.

And so I do the sound check. You know, I've never done a sound check before. I do the sound check. Yeah. Blah, blah, blah, blah. You know? Yeah. And I see all these people lined up on the side of the stage.

There's no one there. It's at Town Hall in New York City. I just played there, yeah. I look over and I see all these people. It was all these people, all these people. Because I had known, I knew that Kurt Cobain had just, you know, supposedly committed suicide, you know? Right, yeah.

And so he was supposed to play that night with the raincoats. He was supposed to fly in and play this show, Nirvana, with the raincoats. The day after Kurt Cobain died? Yeah. Okay. And so the raincoats, I didn't know who that was. So there was these women and then this other woman and these men. They're all lined up against the wall because I guess they're sound checking next.

And so it was the raincoats, but I didn't realize that at the time. And it was Suzanne Sasek, who's like the lighting director for Sonic Youth for years and different whatever. And it was Steve Shelley and Tim Follion, who've been like best friends since they lived in you know ann arbor or whatever uh-huh so i'm done with my sound check and i go behind the curtain i put my amp down move the curtain and so tim and steve come over and um they're like hey what's the name of your band how long have you been playing where you from whatever and i'm just i can't even look up i can't look in their eyes you know whatever and i'm just really uncomfortable and then uh he says uh tim says hey we're gonna go get mexican you want yeah so yeah i'm starving like i love mexican food yeah and they get he's like you get

a buyout i don't know what a buyout is slaps like ten dollars wow wow, wow, wow. Yeah, yeah. Free money. So I go in the corner, and this guy walks up to Steve, and he says, hey, man. And Tim's like, oh, yeah. Steve used to play in the Crucifix with this guy, and I was like, oh, Crucifix. And then I hear the guy go, oh, yeah. So Kim and Thurston, they coming down tonight? And it was just like I could hear the psycho music. Like, what am I doing? And so I went and sat there and ordered my food.

And I couldn't eat. And I just got up and left. I just felt so uncomfortable. Like, you know, sonic youth, you know? The gods. Right. And so I went to play my show. And I was done playing my show and then I leave

at town hall yeah and I had one friend Terry Gillis from TG170 on Lolo because Lily was gone and my other friend was gone so I play my show 20 minutes come outside

and he's yelling at me Miss Powers you want to go back on you want to go back on and I was like like looking at him like why would I ever want to go back on? You want to go back on? And I was like, like looking at him like, why would I ever want to go back on? And he holds the curtain and everyone's standing. They're going insane and they're screaming

and they're banging on the things and they're going crazy. And I was like in shock, like this isn't real. This isn't reality. And I said, no, I want to find my friends. So I opened the curtain to find my one friend. And all these people, these little young kids, you know, these, my peer group. Yeah. You know, these college kids are like, can I get an interview with you?

They hold like a little press machine tape recorder, a pen, you know, and they're like, can I get an interview? Can I take a photo? Can I get your autograph? Can I do this? My professor loves your cd and i was like i'm not liz fair and they all turned around and were like dude and they left and then i laughed so hard and then terry came and i saw gerard and i was like he got the money's all sorry

i don't have cash i'm sorry i made a mistake so you didn't go back for the encore no I left and did max fish probably I don't know and then you got the deal with the records then Tim was like you know do you want to play do you want to Steve really like to play and then he'd really like to record and it took me about I'd say I don't know how maybe two months three months to feel comfortable about you know going out to Hoboken and like you know playing with Steve Shelley and playing with you know Tim and I used to hang out a lot we do karaoke and hang out with Terry and you know but you know I was just so scared of the gods you know yeah you know the the... The judge? Well, just... No, it wasn't that.

It was just like, you know, when you're like super poor, you grew up super poor, you don't feel... And not very educated, not academically anyway. You don't feel like part of anything, really. You don't... Right. You know, there's no... you know, there's no. It's a different world and you feel like you just need to be a person with a job.

Yeah, for sure. Right. Yeah. Well, I went to 13 schools in 10 years. I was constantly moving around as a kid. Were you able to? Sorry, I never really had like a. Right.

What do you call it? A click. Right. Were you able to get grounded, I never really had like a... Right. What do you call it? A click. Were you able to get grounded, though, in New York? Grounded. I mean, did you find a click? Every time I was leaving. Yeah. No, I made relationships, friendships with...

To this day, it's always one-on-one. It's never, you know... Yeah, yeah. A group. It's never... So that was the beginning of it. And then it just went. And then it just went.

Because I was listening to the records, you know. And it's interesting to kind of listen to them in a row. But what's weird is that, like, so you churn out those first four records. And then you do the first cover's record. It was almost like, you know, needed to clean you cleanse your palate or something well i had started playing solo with uh my friend from waiting from waiting for ufos in atlanta he was in a band called smoke he had booked me at this thing to play with um carl dryer passion of jonah bark yeah yeah yeah and uh so i it got canceled so i wasn't able to do it

you were going to play along with the movie? Mm-hmm. And so then I was like, well, then I want to do that. So then I started, like, I booked a tour in America, and then I was headed to Australia. And you did it? And so I started playing with that movie. With that movie, yeah. And just playing and playing. But I started, then I started.

Did you vocalize during it, too? Yeah. Oh, wow. And then I started, then I suddenly had an album of covers that I was playing this thing. So I ran to Matador and I was like, hey, I really, sorry. And this is the way it is with every,

I've only done three now. Yeah. But I always like ask if I could do it. Sorry to interrupt. Sorry to ask for a different thing that you were not expecting. Right. But can we do this?

Because I was afraid that like, it would just disappear it would go away if it didn't get recorded it didn't become an artifact or something like this

what the covers record or you just wanted to keep working well keep working but it like if I you know because I signed

a contract another record I had to do so can I do this record yeah you know was that easier than doing

original shit it's not easier it Was that easier than doing original shit? It's not easier. It's just, original shit is also easier because it's what, there are different parts of my life.

No one's going to judge it against anything either. It's not what I'm thinking. It's just, there are different parts in my life when I just am doing some covers.

Right. Sure. So there are different points in my life. And you're doing, oh, you're doing those live too like when you do the covers what do you mean well i mean like that's part of your show like when you tour i mean like at the time you did that first covers record were you doing several

covers in your live shows what i was playing when i was watching that movie because i didn't know what the hell to play right and i was depressed by depressed by the other stuff. So I was, you know. Yeah. So you're like, let's get it down. No, let's just, let me play some stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I don't know chords, so I don't know how to do like, you know, Stairway to Heaven or, you know. Sure. How do you pick your bands? Well, usually I like to, I mean, I like to, you know, respect them as a musician and as a human being.

That's pretty much it. Because it seems like when you are free and the greatest, seemed like the most, like in terms, like you can feel, I don't want to call it growth because it's different, but it seemed like you had sort of an open heart or there was something. I was getting pressured to do the next record and I was on tour in England and we were at a dim sum place. Yeah. And the company said, he had a laptop.

Yeah. And he said, we need you to tell me what your dream scenario is for your next record because I was just going to just tour forever. This before which record? The Greatest. Okay. And so, just off the top of my head, I was like, because I was thinking, oh, Otis Redding's band.

Yeah. So I was like, Al Green's band. And he wrote it in the computer, and then he said, where? And I said, Memphis. And he said, who's producer? And I said, no producer. I'm the producer.

And I said, Stuart Sykes, because he'd been working with the White Stripes, and I met him a long time ago. Yeah. When I said, no producer, I'm the producer. And I said, Stuart Sykes, because he'd been working with the White Stripes and I met him a long time ago when I did the community thing. He was the assistant engineer. I said,

Stuart Sykes is an engineer. He said, perfect, done. And so later that, you know, before we were done with our food,

it had all been organized for me. And that's how the crew came together for the greatest? And I was living in a bottle then because that was like right before the sobriety happened.

So I was just like, you know, I was really, you know, when the record came out, I was in treatment to not have the alcohol. Oh, really? Yeah. You went in? Yeah. For 28 days? Mm-mm. Oh.

No, not that long. I've been in. I did the full ride with the bad food. Got pudgy. I didn't eat, didn't sleep. Oh, really? Mm-mm. Did you have real DTs?

What's that mean? I mean, did you shake and sweat and vomit? No. That's good. Because that record is like so, it's a great fucking record. And when I listened to it yesterday, I was like, oh, I used to listen to this a lot. Mine was more like being, becoming like, mine was like removing the substance so that I could think. Yeah. You know?

But at first it's like... It was more like cognitive. But it must have been kind of crazy thoughts for... Definitely. Absolutely. You know, coming to, coming out of the... Yeah, waking the hell up. Yeah, coming out of the tunnel.

And like knocking on the... Hi, I'm here. Sorry. Sorry. I was refusing to talk to anyone for six days, but I see what's happening. Do you like that record? You know, I do, of course, because the songs are so sad,

and Teenie basically brought soul, happiness, joy to all those songs. Maybe that's the thing, that there was a balance. Yeah, absolutely. A counterbalance. Was that the first time you felt that happen? Ever, absolutely.

Because that's what it is, actually. Yeah. Because that's the shift. He brought joy and light and love and soul to it. Against the, you know, right. That's what makes it so unique, huh? Mm-hmm. Holy shit.

That's how he plays, you know. That's soul music. Yeah. Thank God for that guy. I know. I know. He just had a birthday. Yeah, so I had moved out here in 2008

and um got into like an unstable relationship that I didn't realize was toxic because you know when you I've never really had like a successful relationship and you're newly sober at that time?

no I've been sober about a year that's still pretty raw yeah I guess I don't know I don't know for me anyways yeah okay so well i had started after

like i'd say a year and a half i started having a little wine you know oh but yeah because like yeah i was so not sober no no no i was only sober like hardcore sober for about a year and a half yeah but um like i was able to it was a lot to do things in childhood with the being around addiction and stuff yeah that kind of stuff like i had already i had already been in tune to making promises to myself as a little kid yeah things that you're not right sure yeah and so you're not going to be so after being where I was in 2000 you know when I got out of that

yeah there's no way you can get me back to that state of mind or frame of mind you know so you get into this toxic relationship and yeah I just held on and like you know tried to like you know I think a lot of people do this i know a lot

of women do this where they i know men do it too but they try to kind of like you know make the other one more comfortable than yourself because maybe the other one is is not a is not self-aware so they're kind of like malcontentish at times and like they aren't like, they don't like, you know. Yeah. So I think like. They don't take, you know, acknowledgement for like abusive things they do and stuff, you know. So you, growing up in sort of hostile environment, I tend to like recoil and I don't, I don't like. Yeah.

I don't yell. I don't, I just like, oh, get me the hell out of here. You know, you know, I shut down. So that kind of like created, these strange boundaries were set and I stupidly kept believing that they would get better, but more boundaries kept coming and it was really difficult psychologically for me to, it felt like a game like a really intense structure of how someone's

used to dealing with women and I I needed to go through that to learn how could I, I had to learn like how could I let myself get in that situation I had to go, like, how could I let myself get in that situation? I had to go through that to see, wow, I really, I really fucked myself by letting somebody take that much control over my life and over my person, over me, my friends, contacting my friends. Yeah.

Being me, I let someone, someone you know slowly like take control over my me and my life so the sun record was basically like me like trying to like you know get out get out it could just make sense in my head of like reemerge i i know i i know i'm i know i'm competent i know i'm intelligent yeah i know i'm kind i know i'm graceful i know I'm competent. I know I'm intelligent. I know I'm kind. I know I'm graceful. I know I'm empathetic. I know I'm friendly. I know I'm funny.

I know I'm clean, safe, harmonious, interested in the people around me. Whatever. I know I'm all right. So that record was just me trying to focus on my inner voice. Well, it's weird when you grow up with that emotional unpredictability and violence, emotional violence or real violence. Like, I have the same thing when somebody is abusive. And I've been abusive, right? But when someone's abusive, like, it's like paralysis.

It's like a deer. It's like you just take it and- Yeah. You become like a- A seizure of some kind. It's like the light switch goes off. And of course, I don't put myself in the situations of people like that anymore at all. Right.

I can see them coming a mile a minute. I can too, but sometimes I- Yeah. Right. You might lend a helping hand because you want they get in they'll worm in if like if you've got those if you if you're a mark an emotional mark for that stuff people know it instinctively and you've got to know when they're coming yeah and sometimes you don't know and they're like oh no it's inside me

god i gotta get it out yes it is it's. Yeah, it feels really mean to push them away. Oh, God. Yeah, I know, but you know. But now I'm a mom, and that's taught me more than I thought I would be able to learn about. You know, all of those things we're talking about. Are you able to, has that thing, when you decided to become a mom, you're like, I'm going to do this. Well, when I found out, yeah. Okay.

So it was after you got pregnant, you're like, okay, let's do it. Now, has that relationship, how has that informed your whole trip? I feel like I'm constantly learning, like, you know, what's the best way to handle this? Yeah. Constantly learning, like, you know, what's the best way to handle this? Yeah. You know, what's the best way to handle this with discipline while making sure that you have a light heart, you know? You know what I mean? The kid or you?

Myself. Oh, yeah. When I'm, like, constituting, you know, the boundaries. So don't freak out. How do you do it with love? Love is the easy part. Oh. Yeah. The love is the easy part. Oh. Yeah.

The love is the easy part. The love is like the just, you know, he's a very tough dude. Yeah. But he's like, you know, teddy bear, sweet, you know, mushy love. Like. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

We're up on love. It's all good. Yeah. How old is he? He's six. Yeah. But like, you know, acts like he's, you know, like 26. He says, you know, mom, you know, I'm a man, you know acts like he's you know like 26 he says you know mom you know i'm a man you know i think i am a man well bo you're you know you're six well you know mom i'm gonna

be a man soon you know look out i'm tall i'm really i'm the tallest person in my class you're gonna have a man on your hands big time but it's great because like you know the universe they always say like the cliche like the universe sends you what you need do you find that's true i find the universe sends me a lot of garbage i know but you can't look at it like that but there's another thing it's like yeah you know yeah garbage garbage garbage but then it's like the garbage isn't the lesson. It's what you take from the lesson. Like you can choose to be humble and grounded. And you can choose to turn that shit around and no one will do that for you.

It doesn't matter how late you keep them up at night talking about whatever. No one's going to turn around your bullshit or the bullshit that's happened to you or whatever. Except yourself or whatever. Yeah. No one's going to turn around your bullshit or the bullshit that's happened to you or whatever except yourself or whatever. Right. So the hard shit, it's not the lesson. The lesson is what you teach yourself to do better. How do you do it? It's the action.

Yeah. That's the lesson. Sure. How do you choose these covers? Because I noticed that about all your covers, records. It's like, I know four songs, and I feel like, am I not listening to anything? I've got like 3,000 records. I don't know of any of these fucking songs.

Are you kidding? Well, I know. What's on this one? Well, on tour, I heard... I know some of the old ones. Obviously, I know a lot of them. The Velvet Underground. I know the Bobby Darin record. I know one. Sea of Love. But I mean, I know those ones, but. The Velvet Underground. I know the Bobby Darin record. I know Sea of Love. But I mean, I know those ones.

But there's some esoteric ones, not unlike many of the bands you're mentioning. I don't know them. But so what's on this one? Okay, so the first day, there's some that we were playing on tour, like Bad Village. By Frank Ocean, we were playing on tour. White Mustang. During that year, when I was dropped from my label,

my ex-label, Lana asked me to go on tour in Europe. So I wanted to sing a song for her and her fans. So White Mustang is on there.

I'm going to look at the track list. So when we went to Rob's studio, Mant, with my friends who I play with who are on this record,

it's the first time we've ever recorded together except Eric was on Jukebox. Yeah. So it's me, Adeline, Aliana, and Eric. When I record, I like to warm up at the station. I like the piano part with the mics overhead and the guitar, a couple different amps, a couple different mics, drums, couple different mics, overhead, you know, and the headphones, you got to get the headphones and the talkback mic, different stuff, and the vocal mic, couple different mics, like it to all be humming and up and running.

And so when it started to be up and running, so I asked Rob, can we go ahead and start tracking? Yeah. So I said, let's go. Close the door. Rob, can we go ahead and start tracking? So I said, let's go. Close the door.

So the first things we did on the first day were I started like talent composing was my composing thing of like, I'm not sure what I'm doing. But hey, all right, play this. Try this like a double time at 16 bars. Hey, Adeline, try this like, you know, just a couple, but like down and up not just down how about down down down and then down up and then aliana can you try just the things and then like it's stomp and then off and you know that kind of composing and then i jump in the vocal booth and be like fuck i have no idea what i'm seeing and this is the first four recordings we did the first one the same method each time i jump out of a thing and they'd be like you know and be like, fuck, I have no idea what I'm going to sing. And this is the first four recordings we did. The first one, the same method each time. I'd jump out of the thing and they'd be like,

okay, you feel okay? Eric, why don't you try this? Adelaine, why don't you try that? Adelaine, why don't you try this? Jump back in the thing. I have no fucking idea what I'm going to do. So all of them, each of them, except you got the silver, I was like, hey, let's just grab a guitar.

Let's just, you know, and that was the, didn't know what we were going to do. And that was your silver. The first one was Against the Wind. The second one was I Had a Dream, Joe. Never in my thousand years of life, whatever would have, I mean, whatever. Against the Wind, the Bob Seger song? Correct. But I never thought I would ever do.

I had a Dream, Joe, ever in a thousand years. Whose song is that? Nick Cave, Bad Seeds. And then the third one was Endless Sea, Iggy. Oh, Iggy, yeah. I Saw Your Pillow. Yeah, and Here Comes a Regular. That was, I thought one day I would definitely do that.

Do you know Paul? I met him once, yeah. It's a good song. It's a good song. Isn't that a great song? That's like every alcohol extreme. I mean, that song is fucking. Nightmare. It's crazy good song. It's a good song. Isn't that a great song? That's like every alcohol extreme. I mean, that song is fucking... Nightmare.

It's crazy, man. Yeah, so I do know those songs. These days I know too, right? Yeah. Yeah, we were doing that on tour too. So they're all... So these all are worn grooves. I mean, you knew the songs.

Not Against the Wind, not I Had a Dream, and not Endless Sea, and not You Got the Silver. Right. And I know there's something else on there. It's one of my favorite Stones songs, really. Same. I can't think of the other.

I think there's something else I didn't know. But anyway. It's exciting. Yeah, I had to look at the lyrics on Google. All first take. Yeah. And I had to edit the vocal when i'm saying and it's good you guys are gonna break down in three two one against the wind

running in against the wind well it's it's nice talking to you you too you feel all right we'll tighten it i do feel good i don't't think I said anything bad about anybody. Nope. No, I don't think so. Yeah, that's good. I tried hard. You tried to not say anything bad? I tried hard not to.

I'm just kidding. Very respectfully so, I did not try hard. I'm excited about the record. Thank you. I hope you like it. There you go. Sean Marshall, a.k.a. Cap Power. Huh?

I'm happy we talked. The new album cover is out January 14th. North American tour dates for next year starting January 16th. Go check out cappowermusic.com for all those things. The dates. Maybe I do have to start recording musicians again. I don't know when that went away. You know,

where we used to have them play. Maybe we can start doing that. I mean, I play, I'm going to play right now. Thank you.... guitar solo Thank you.... Boomer lives. Monkey and La Fonda. Yeah, cat angels everywhere. We'll see you next time. So no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats. But meatballs and mozzarella balls, yes, we can deliver that. Uber Eats, get almost almost anything.

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