WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1294 - David Manheim

Episode Date: January 6, 2022

Most people who know David Manheim don't know him as David Manheim. To fans of the Dopey podcast, he's just Dave (no last name given), a recovering drug addict who built a tight-knit digital community around addiction, recovery and being human. David talks with Marc about how his career in show business fizzled out as addiction took hold of his life and how starting a podcast with a friend he met in recovery was his salvation. They also talk about Dave's other life at Katz's Deli and they get into the important hierarchy of deli meats.  Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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go wrong a fire cyber attack stolen equipment or an unhappy customer suing you that's why you need insurance don't let the i'm too small for this mindset hold you back from protecting yourself zensurance provides customized business insurance policies starting at just 19 per month visit zensurance today to get a free quote zensurance mind your business per month. Visit Zensurance today to get a free quote. Zensurance, mind your business. Lock the gate! All right, let's do this. How are you, what the fuckers? What the fuck buddies? What the fuck nicks? What's happening? i don't know what's happening in the world today but we know what happened in the world today a year ago i imagine there's like uh on fox tonight

there'll be fascism on ice uh why white people are better that's a tucker carlson special i'm sure there's a lot of that going on in the country. And I just wanted to say, in light of that, this isn't a political show, but we are better off in a very big way. Now, Trump is not president. We don't have to react to his fucking sanity every goddamn hour of every goddamn day. That guy kicked the doors into people's brains right and left all around had a different effect on each some people who never knew what the president did and still don't or don't understand a firm understanding of how government even works uh just let that guy into their brain and fucking kick it around get them all excited what trump did whether he's president again or not, whether he lives or dies, whatever the fuck it is, what he did through persistence and aggravated will and full on narcissistic intent was destroy people's understanding of the necessity of tolerance.

of the necessity of tolerance. Democracy can't work without tolerance. Civic duty, civic responsibility, civic structure. If this is supposed to work, it should work for everybody. Now it's a fractured fucking mess because no one feels like they have to tolerate anything anymore. They've had enough. They're righteous.

They're victims. And everyone's on edge. Believe me, I am on edge. You just feel it. Everybody is freaked out. Look, personally, I'm fine with the president. I like not knowing what the president is doing every five fucking minutes. But this fucking monster we had for four years.

Was so entertaining. To so many fucking craven idiots. That they just got excited. They felt part of it. Like hey let's be part of the big fuck you. And now let's be part of the big lie. Hey man. We were on board for the big fuck you.

Let's get on board for this bullshit. King Grift. and his shit show. Anyway, listen, David Mannheim is on the show today. I was at the I believe it was I was staying at the Ludlow or the Bowery in New York. And it was probably the the Ludlow is right across the street from Katz's, which is where he's worked all his life. The deli. And he saw me and he ran up to me. It's like I do the podcast. I work at Katz's.

I got this thing. I do this dopey podcast. It's called Dopey. And it's become a place for people to basically tell their stories about addiction and recovery. And he used to host it with his friend, Chris. And now he hosts it alone. And that's a story that you'll hear in a minute. But he just kept coming at me, giving me free meat, having me into cats, you know, talking deli.

And eventually I was like, all right, you know, I'll do the podcast. Let's do it. And I did his podcast, Dopey. And I just kept seeing him and I kept hearing in front of him and he kept giving me free meat. And I guess after a certain point, you give me enough free meat, I'll have you on the show. But no, he's had a life. You know, his show was featured on an episode of This American Life. And oddly, this is actually the first time he's using his last name. True. True that. Isn't that wild? So I guess that's sort of like coming out in a way.

coming out in a way he's coming out as his full name big show folks worked up man worked up i'm trying to deal you know i got my cat sick i told you the other day and it just destabilized my entire life you know you get into a pattern with these things there was so much love going on between buster and sammy and i take yeah i took buster to the vet and then sammy doesn't know who the fuck buster is for like a fucking three four days because of the smell and it was sad and now buster is not a hundred percent i don't know if he's ever going to be a hundred percent i don't really know what's wrong with him other than pancreatitis i've been giving him fluids trying to get him to eat i had him on an appetite stimulant. I just, you know, it's just sad, man. And Sammy's like, just wants to hang out with his buddy.

But Buster doesn't feel well. Been doing the fluids. I don't know. I really can't. I really can't handle it that well. It's interesting because I have a vet that I used to work with over at Gateway, Dr. Modesto McLean. And he was a great guy and he's sort of not doing as much anymore. He put down both of my cats with me, Monkey and LaFonda.

Honest guy. He had told me that if he wasn't available anymore that i could email him and i emailed him and he's been you know texting with me and helping me through this trying to treat this cat and you know what it's just it's just great when you meet people that you know love their job know how to do their job are willing to help you know just out of the goodness of the guy's heart you know and he's their job, are willing to help, you know, just out of the goodness of the guy's heart, you know, and he's, you know, he's willing to help me and he's been helping me and we got him on some medicine. And then this other weird thing happened because when I took the cat Buster to Gateway here in Los Feliz, which is, I've been going there for like

20 years. And then I had to go back and this woman was there this dr uh horgan and it turns out like i was talking to modesto about horgan and i'm like where does she work now and he's like i don't know but her husband writes on a show you know that uh the united states of al or whatever it is and uh you know and he used to be in the army they were both in the army i'm like oh wow that's cool and then just by coincidence, I'm talking to Fahim Anwar at the comedy store last night in the dressing room. And he said he's writing on that show. And I'm like, do you know this guy? He was in the Army and his wife's a veterinarian.

And he's like, yeah, I know that guy. And I'm like, can you find out from him whether she's still seeing patients somewhere, whether she's working somewhere as a veterinarian. It turns out she runs her own shop and does a sort of house call business. And I'm fucking, I'm psyched. So I emailed her today. So I'm covered, veterinarially speaking. But that doesn't mean Buster's not sick.

I hope he gets better. You know, when you have cats and their life is disrupted your life is disrupted and it's very easy to see the whole world through that disruption and lose hope and everything which i'm battle with anyways but you just have to you know i'm trying to compartmentalize it you know i've had these cats i just didn't want to deal with a dying cat yet that's all you know you know what's going to happen. But it'd rather happen at the right time, not out of nowhere. And for reasons unknown. But that's fucking life, isn't it?

Happy New Year. Is that what I meant to say? So look, David Mannheim, that's his name from the Dopey podcast. You can listen to Dopey wherever you get your podcasts. And you can go to dopeypodcast.com for other Dopey Nation stuff. Shirts, hats, socks, hoodies. The guy makes everything. The Dopey, with the Dopey brand. But look, this guy, you know, tried to make a go of show business.

Got off the track with the drugs, with the opioids, with the dopesters, but always kept his job at Katz's. I'm telling you, man, quality meat, you give me enough quality meat, maybe you get on the show. I'm kidding.

You know, the Jew thing, too. And the addiction thing. Anyways, this is me talking to David Mann. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know,

we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Are you self-employed? Don't think you need business insurance? Think again. Business insurance from Zensurance is a no-brainer for every business owner because it provides peace of mind.

A lot can go wrong. A fire, cyber attack, stolen equipment, or an unhappy customer suing you. That's why you need insurance. Don't let the, I'm too small for this mindset, hold you back from protecting yourself. Zensurance provides customized business insurance policies starting at just $19 per month. Visit Zensurance today to get a free quote. Zensurance. Mind your business. What's up with the broken hammer? Is that loud enough for you? Yeah, it sounds great. It's all right? Yeah. the broken hammer is that loud enough for you yeah it sounds great it's all right yeah uh the broken hammer what is the story on that i don't even remember anymore where i found that it's been there you know but i figured there's like a mythological story to how it broke

no i found it like that all right and i can't remember where it turned up or why. Like the other stuff, some of it has stories. Like these weird pieces of decayed boat engines are from Kauai. The mushroom was made by a fan. I've got the Mitzi driver's licenses. I've got this old, you know, wizard cup that was something that I grew up with. That's one of the original WTF cups. This is something that a fan made. And this little Lafonda is a fan made.

Awesome. And I got this at the record pressing place. That's a record that hasn't been through the squish yet. Oh, that's so cool. Yeah. This green thing, the green ashtray was actually given to me by on Some birthday by a guy Who I got sober with? Vietnam that and I have no idea what happened to that guy and I can't even remember the guy's name

Which is sad, but it you know in terms of sobriety like I don't know you how do I know you you know? I do know you now I Hear you. You know me as well as you know me. You're going to know me better after this conversation. Well, I mean, I listened to a little of the podcast as much as I could. As much as you could stomach. But that's nothing. That's not a comment on you. I don't listen to any podcast.

My friend was saying, you know he's not going to listen to your podcast. I was like, no, he's not going to listen to my podcast. I've been on it. But my friend said, you won't listen to anyone's podcast. And I said, but I listen to his. Well, that's right, because you had to learn somewhere. I had to learn somewhere. Yeah.

But I was on your podcast. You were incredible on my podcast. Was I, though? You have a lot. It seems like there's better guys to tell the dark, disgusting, bottom-feeding, bottom-hitting, gangrenous fucking criminal stories about addiction than me so people know that you have pestered me for years not unlike dean like delray who pestered me for a long time as well uh you know i i like you guys i like you and i was happy you were doing it

and and then you know over time i start to, you know, obviously he's got a story. It sounds sad. It sounds exciting. It sounds partially show business oriented and deli oriented. So eventually I come around to like, all right, is it going to be annoying to talk to him? Potentially. And, you know, you have given me a lot of special treatment with meat. Potentially.

And, you know, you have given me a lot of special treatment with meat. Not only, you know, Katz's meat and products and attire, but dopey attire. And it's like total debauchery. A lot of good meat. Everything we make is good. No, I know, but like anything else, there's some days are better than others. How many people eat the corned beef on a given day? Then most people are going to eat the fucking pastrami. No one's going to eat the brisket at Katz's, so it's hit or miss, right?

Where I am with meat, and real quick, I'm just going to be really quick with this. I can't eat pastrami anymore. If the corned beef is perfect, I think it's better than the pastrami. Of course. And then perfect brisket, that's a whole other level. Carnegie used to have a good brisket.

I never ate at the Carnegie. But like Second Avenue deli was a pastrami place cats is a pastrami place really i mean that's what the guys come for right well that's what we push on them and it's what everybody comes for but the pastrami is is legendary but back in the 70s everything's hand cut but back in the 70s the corned beef was the thing and it changed in the 80s that place was Wow, there's too many junkies. The dopey was too thick. They didn't have stalls on the bathroom doors in Katz's

up until like 93. I just remember when I went there, I went there when I was a very little kid. My earliest memory of Katz's is driving in with my grandfather. I probably told you that story. The tongue story. Right, in Bayonne, from Bayonne.

And like it never went away. I remember going into that place, smelling that place, seeing it, and it was late at night. And it was not crowded. It was like a dope run for tongue. It's a real thing. The old owner would walk around the store and say, oh, you come to get your fix? Yeah, really? It's like classic dope run.

That's what he says to everybody. What's your history at that place? Why are you part of the fabric there? You've been working there since you were a kid? Well, my history is that my father's second cousin bought the place in the 80s. Oh, really? His father-in-law bought the place, and I got cousined in in high school. And I would work there in the summers, and I lived on the Lower East Side, and I'd work there. So that was the first owner after the Katzes? Basically. Yeah. It was like

the Katzes and another family and it got passed down and passed down and passed down and then the current owner's grandfather bought in with my dad, my cousin and his father and that's how I got into it. Then I like went into show business and I became a horrible heroin addict and I fell out of cats. Well, we can go back. So how Jewish did you grow up? Orthodox? No, I grew up on the island where I grew up in Manhattan. Oh, really? I grew up on 27th Street and 8th Avenue. What's your dad do? He's a teacher. Oh, so you grew up working class. I grew up in Manhattanhattan in bucolic middle class jewishness and my dad was raised orthodox and he was like a talmudic scholar as

a kid but then as soon as he got into science he was like i don't believe in god i don't believe in this wait so wait how can he be like a child prodigy and Talmudic scholarship. What do you mean, as a kid? He was like his rabbi's number one god. So he's a yeshiva kid? No, just in the school in Queens. He went to this Orthodox school in Queens, and his rabbi was like, you are the guy. And as soon as he started- You're the guy?

That was a lot of pressure. I know. But as soon as he started studying science, he was like, I don't believe- At the same school or a different school? No, in his regular school. Oh, I see. He wound up going to Stuyvesantant he got out he got out and now he calls himself an orthodox atheist and the only thing he likes is the music and the food and the jokes sure he's out of

everything else but he doesn't like but the music food and jokes but that also community he may not be an orthodox community but he sounds like a jewyy Jew. He's a Jew-y Jew, but I was raised conservative. I had to be bar mitzvahed even though there was no God. I never really learned Hebrew very well. Yeah, me neither. My dad still to this day gives me shit that he wrote out my Haftorah in phonetics. To this day, I have a disappointment. Oh, really?

You couldn't even sit down with the cantor and learn the fucking thing? I could have, but he writes it out in phonetics. You can't read Hebrew? Not well. Well, no, who can? But you never bothered to learn it for even the Haftorah to read the Hebrew? I don't know.

I think I don't. My recollection is shaking. How long was the Haftorah? I could do the whole thing right now. Oh, so you had a short one. That was real conservative. Did they not make you do the whole thing? I did.

I did the Torah portion. I did it nice. I learned it like a song. Sure. I learned it like a song. Sure. Yeah, that's how you do it. I learned it like a song. Right, yeah, yeah. And I didn't read it in Hebrew.

Do you remember yours? And then you're like, it's a lot of that up and down shit. Yeah, good times. The melody's tight. I don't know. I don't think I memorized mine. I think I learned it, A lot of that up and down shit. Yeah, good times. The melody's tight. I don't know. I don't think I memorized mine.

I think I learned it, but then I did read it because I didn't like- So you're saying you reading it makes you a better Jew than me? No, no, no. I just like, I was sort of able to do it. I didn't know what it meant. It's interesting though. I don't know if I was able to do it or not. All that I know is I don't think my dad had the patience to hear me trying to sound like i learned it i learned it but in our hebrew school they were more interested in teaching

us how israeli tanks could destroy syrian tanks and jordanian tanks oh really all we learned about was like irrigation and tanks in israel yeah that's weird i come from a different like i don't know if that had really taken over the Hebrew schools yet when I went, because with us, it was just black and white films of bodies being shoveled into pits. Right. Well, that was a different, a little bit of a different era. Different class?

I think, I don't know. Like, it was all about the land of milk and honey and irrigation and this and that. And I didn't even want to have a bar mitzvah. Yeah. My mother said, it's my party, David. We're having this for me. You just do the thing and you can keep the money. So are you of the generation that had themed bar mitzvahs?

Did you have a theme? I'm of the generation, but thank God I didn't have a theme. Didn't have a theme. No, but we had a really corny DJ at the bar mitzvah who called himself Captain Bar Mitzvah. Where's that guy now? Probably. Get him on your show. You're slacking. Go find Captain Bar Mitzvah who called himself captain bar mitzvah where's that guy now i probably get him on your show how well you're slacking he's don't find captain bar mitzvah every time i see a dj on long island i'm like yeah captain bar mitzvah it was and i was probably had three other names

that was just a business card for jews oh my god just i was so embarrassed disco danny on another business card right for the jews he was captain Bar Mitzvah. He did a song. He did a horrible rap on Captain Bar Mitzvah. It was terrible. It was very embarrassing. Was it? You mean your friends were embarrassed? Yeah.

My friends were laughing at me, and I was embarrassed. How old are you? 47. So were you a cool kid then? Were your friends like hip-hop guys? I went- When did that all happen? Because I'm 10 years older than you.

It happened- Must have been during your time. I went when did that all happen because I'm 10 years older than you it happened must have been during your time I went to the nerdiest school in the world in Manhattan you have brothers and sisters I have an older sister how's she doing

she's good she's good did she turn out alright she turned out okay she married actually an orthodox Jew oh my god is she wearing a wig now

she's not she's not all from me but she's doing good I went to school at this very very very great public high school and elementary school that were connected wearing a wig now she's not she's not all from me but she's doing good i went to school at the at this very very very great public high school and elementary school that were connected in manhattan it was like the gifted school oh i think what's it called hunter oh yeah i think i heard of that lynn manuel miranda went right right right and these kinds of people i think like you know i

i don't think i know any kids that went there what about about your mom? My mom was a teacher too, but she died. She did? She died, I want to say, 12 or 13 years ago. That's terrible. Yes. How did she die? Leukemia.

Oh my God. That's how Lynn died. Acute myeloid leukemia though. Lynn didn't know she had it. Just like consumed her in a week. That was horrible. And I didn't get to tell you in person how sorry I was about that

because the last time I saw you you were telling before when you were like she likes to wear the cat's hoodie and I was like oh what a beautiful

you know so my deepest love and condolences terrible this is just terrible this fucking awful disease did your mom she died quick

did she have it a long time no she had it for like two years and she just dropped dead fucking worst and my dad was just just dead no no quickly she went to the hospital i and i came home i lived in los angeles when she when she got it yeah and i was a fucking disaster in los angeles when she got it i was on methadone i was on heroin but it's like that thing like

i i think glenn must have had it a long time. Just didn't know. But your mom got diagnosed with it, so she knew. She knew, and she knew she was going to go quickly, and no one else thought she was going to go quickly. Two years quickly? That's pretty quickly, because she didn't have it so bad, and then all of a sudden it all happened at once. It's devastating.

All right, so we'll get back to, like, L.A., but so you're going to Hunter. You're, what, gifted? You're a creative guy? I got in when I was four years old. I took a test. How old are you supposed to be when you go? Four. All right, so that's nothing special.

But my point is that the school, for me, was from four to 17. So I was pretty cool amongst the nerdiest kids in the universe. So once you get in at four, you're in for the full ride? You're in. They asked me to leave a bunch of times, too, but I was like, I don't think I'm going to leave. Why? Because I didn't want to go to a rough and tumble school

and deal with it. I enjoyed being cool in the nerd school. So why'd they ask you to leave? Because I was not keeping up with the nerds. Oh. I probably had undiagnosed ADHD. That's what all addicts say. Yeah, probably.

Hopefully. Hopefully I wasn't just stupid. Every addict's story is like, you know, I just think undiagnosed depression, undiagnosed ADHD. I might be autistic even. I might be on the spectrum. Yeah. Absolutely. It's a great junkie excuse.

They just didn't have the medicine then. I wonder though, like my mom would say to me when I was a kid. Yeah. I think you, ADHD wasn't really talked about in that way when I was a kid. None of it was was a kid, I think you, ADHD wasn't really talked about in that way when I was a kid. None of it was. She said, I think you have a learning disability, which made me feel really bad. You know what I mean?

Like, because I was also- Dyslexia is the other one. I didn't have dyslexia. I wish I had dyslexia because then I could say, oh, it was dyslexia. Because the other ones are vague. Very vague. The other one seems like it's my fault that I'm just an idiot. A lot of tests.

Right? I just got like, he's unmotivated well were you were you unmotivated i honestly think you know after having done this show for a while that i i probably do have some adhd like you know i can get shit done but i get lot. I got a lot of things going all the time. I can't really focus on anyone for when I do. I hyper focus. But in general, a lot of things are happening. I get them all done. But, you know, and also just what I retain. It's more about retention.

And I know that I'm blowing up my brain with my phone and with how busy I am and everything. But like yesterday seems like a year ago. Like I can't, you know, manage time anymore. No, I know what you mean. I feel like I do the same thing, but I do. I thought it was like part of my recovery to be as busy and as scattered as I could possibly be so I don't have to deal with my brain. I keep it all together, but I don't like, I don't compartmentalize well.

That's the deal. Everything sort of operates at the same frequency. I think we're pretty similar with that kind of stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, all right. So you're at Hunter same frequency. I think we're pretty similar. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, all right. So you're at Hunter, you're four, you're doing it. Doing it. Where's your sister going? She went, she went, she started in some private school and wound up at like PS 104, but then she wound up at LaGuardia, the music and art. What is she music? She was a singer. Still? No. Gave it all up for the Orthodox. It's over. Her singing career ended. Still?

No. Gave it all up for the Orthodox? It's over. Her singing career ended. I did Hunter all the way through, and I was a really good kid. I wasn't particularly good in school. What were your interests? You're going to be in show business?

I wanted to... I actually got into MTV when I was in high school. But there's no deli involved yet. The deli came in in between high school and college. I just needed somewhere to work, so I started working at Katz's. That must have been exciting. It was awesome. It was awesome, except for like- Because you wanted to be an old Jewish guy, right?

I didn't want to be an old Jewish guy. And I worked with all these Spanish guys. There were a few Jews left. None of the old Jewish deli men left? A couple. When I worked at a deli, I became an old Jewish man. I became an oldish man i became an old jewish man in the last 13 years big time like no but like i was like built for it like in

my 20s like before i graduated college i worked at one of the last real jewish delis in boston and there were like there was abe and robert abe was shell shocked fromcked from Korea. Robert was like 100, and he would just sit there on the, you know, it's not the hand slicer, but the one that just goes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. For the corned beef. Terrifying. Terrifying machine. Robert would just sit there eating pieces and cutting corned beef.

Right. And then there was Sonny, who was the cook, who made the puddings and the briskets and everything in the kitchen. And fucking, what the hell, Sheldon ran the place. But that's the 10 years. The 10 years between us gives you this cast of characters still living. 10 years later, they're all dead. That's true.

There was a couple alive at Katz's. And I, when I got there, I'm working on the floor. I'm working on the grill. Floor means waiting. No, bussing tables. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like running around with a cart. Yeah. And then I worked on the back counter and I'm working on the grill. Floor means waiting? Like, no, bussing tables. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like running around with a cart. Yeah.

And then I worked on the back counter and I would cut meat with the slicer and I wound up filleting my finger off. And I got workers comp for the summer and they paid me and it was like the greatest summer ever. Is that where the drug started? The drug started around there. I was playing music then. I was in bands then.

So what do you play? I play harmonica. I play a little bit of guitar. And that's it? Yeah, that's it. A little piano. What kind of band? Then I played in a ska and reggae band. Harmonica? Yeah, it was good. We had a good little band. We had a deal. So you had a record deal? Yeah, we had a little record deal. All right, so you come out of high school, you didn't do that well, didn't focus. I wound up on MTV when I was like 17, like doing, I was an intern and I wound up hosting some segments for MTV. You were interning at MTV when you were 17.

What era of MTV is this? Who's the big shot? 19, Kurt Loder. We would hang out in Kurt Loder's office and he'd smoke weed and listen to the Harder They Come soundtrack. And we were like, this is the coolest thing ever. Wow. First season of The Real World when we were there. It was like that era.

And me and one of my very best friends were just kind of hanging out. And I was just like, we got to get on MTV. And we would just go from office to office to office. Yeah. Do you know Alex Colletti? He started MTV Unplugged. He's a big music guy. You would love him.

I don't know. I probably do. But I don't know. He did all the like Neil Young Unplugged. I know the bald guy. The shaved head. Which one? The heavy metal guy.

Matt Pinfield. Yeah, Pinfield I know. He's been on Dopey twice. Yeah, I've seen him around. I knew the guy that directed some of the unplugged because he directed a show that I started on TV. Robert Small did a couple of, I don't remember which unplugs, but that was his claim to fame. He was the director. And he worked with Eileen Katz.

Okay. Who was there when you were there. Yes. Her and Herzog. Yeah, yeah, I knew Herzog. Herzog actually said, put me in a room and said, me and my friend were the future of MTV. And six months later, it was over.

And the next time I saw Doug Herzog, I was a waiter on the world yacht. And I was like, what happened? So you're there, you're interning, and what happens? What's the big star turn? Were you hosting segments? Just like they wanted to give us a chance, so they did. You and who? Me and my best friend. What happened to that guy? He's a teacher on the Lower East Side. Everyone's a teacher. Devin. A lot of middle-class Jews. All right. A lot of intellectual middle-class Jews who become teachers. He's also a novelist. It's noble. It's noble. It's good. It's an important profession if people like it so what were the segments we we went with the heavy metal

band slaughter to a record signing in new jersey in their limo and we were just like kids interviewing the heavy metal kids outside yeah and hanging out with slaughter is this before uh heavy metal parking lot yeah okay it was up on their song was up all night. Their song was Up All Night, Sleep All Day. Yeah. And it was like, we didn't like that kind of music. Yeah. And we were just like, what are we doing here? Yeah.

I got so nauseous in their limo. When I got out, I just puked all over the place. Great. Did you get that on camera? No. And we did another segment. Didn't do the real thing. Yeah.

No. We got another segment where we went to this bullshit toy show at the Javits Center, and then the show got canceled. Uh-huh. It was like a high school magazine show. The show got canceled. And when I was talent and an intern, it was for high school credit. In my high school at Hunter, your senior year, your intercollege year, you do an internship.

And you get credit. You get credit. But we never got the producer to sign the form. So I forged the signature They found out who did the school or MTV both the school asked them the guy and he's like no He forged the signature and I lost credit for the internship and that was the end of being a fraud Yeah, basically, but I mean, but you did the work, but you were gonna be punished anyways Yes, and I and I was punished and I had to teach you a lesson

I guess there was a lot of lessons what they did i actually directed a play in my high school and they said your punishment is we're not going to give you credit for directing the play why because they're dicks the principal dr miserandino if he's still alive but but this was relative to the the fraudulent signature yeah they decided because i forged the signature that this i was going to be punished and that's how they punished me i didn't expect to be talking about this stuff by the way but it's interesting though because that that's the beginning of you know knowing that you're kind of a scumbag yeah that's a tough way that's a tough way to put it it was like we didn't show up to get the signature

and and devin was like i can do it and i was like do it and devin didn't show up to get the signature, and Devin was like, I can do it. And I was like, do it. And Devin didn't get in trouble. But the solution could have been like, let's just go back and get the signature. I know. My whole life could have gone differently. But would I be here now is the question. But then you're like, nah, man. Let's just do it.

You know? But I wasn't really a scumbag yet. No, not really a scumbag. But that there was, you know, because look, I don't know if I've ever even told that story. I was suspended from school for copying some guy's paper. And it was just, I did a bad job of it. It was like a prose thing.

It wasn't like a number. Because you used his words too well or something? It was obvious? Something. And it was like, it wasn't that my nature wasn't, like I could have done it, but this was my problem. It's like, I just never did shit.

Like I'd wait too long and then I'd panic. I was the guy that, after an entire year of a class where we're supposed to read the Chronicles of Narnia, I had written none. And I was, you know, the day before, the weekend before, I was trying to read all of them.

So I didn't cheat because, like I didn't know what to do. none and i was you know the day before the weekend before i was trying to read all of them so i didn't cheat because like i didn't know what to do i just waited too long and i panicked and i bullied some kid into you know giving me and we both got suspended that guy i remember his name i'm sorry brian bond i wonder where brian bond is right he's a nice he was a nice guy and i was just sort of worming him but but look, we both have that bad moral valve that leads to drug addiction or might be just a component of it. It might be.

I mean, I was just like a scrub in high school. I didn't pay attention. I didn't care. All I wanted to do was have a good time. How many of these segments did you do for MTV? Three. And they all got on? Yeah. You could have been going yeah you could have been going i could have been going i mean when i say they said i was the future of mtv doug herzog actually said to me you're the future of mtv and then you you signed

his name somewhere no i signed the guy's name that we signed was charlie singer he was this producer yeah and he had he apologized to him did you make amends i i don't remember what kind of fucking recovery he had an office and his office was covered with yes posters from the band yes i just could never go back to i could never go back to see that fucking shit the prog rock stuff yeah i can't go back to that was to get a signature all those pictures of rick wakeman and steve howe everywhere i can't Yeah. There's no, maybe I can make an amend, but I mean, I paid the price for it. And I could have done something with that, and it didn't happen. And the ska band.

Yeah, I mean, we got signed. We put out a record. It was cool. What was the name of it? The first band was called The Percolators, but the record that got signed was The N-Steps, and we made a record, and the record wasn't good. What record company did you deal with another planet so like you couldn't get on mtv because you're the fraud guy you're the fucking nah i was just i you know what i i didn't even get on the record i only played harp on one track on the record i was in college and i never went

back and i just played in bands in college i played in a soul band i played in a weird funky hip-hop band i played harmonica in the soul band. It was like a 12-piece. For how many songs? I mean, now I'm starting to doubt the story. So you did one song on a record with a band. Did you sing on other tracks? No, I didn't.

So you were on one track. Yeah, I played in that band, but then I kind of diverted. I guess this isn't worth telling the story. No, it's a good story. Yeah, it's just I like the embellishment. Like, you played in these two bands. I was in the band, and then by the time the record came out i only got on one track and the worst thing is that this is the guy that forges the signature i know take a trip into the city i know the guy who says he was on a record and it's like playing harmonica on one track dude

the fucked up thing is that the track that i was on was a hidden track. The track that I'm on is at the end of the last track on the record. It's there. So you didn't really have a music career? No, no. I don't know why I'm here. Like, I didn't have a music career. I don't know why you're here either. I mean, like, Halle Berry, Guillermo Del Toro.

It's about corned beef. Listen. And heroin. And heroin. Yeah, yeah. We're going to get to that. But so you're in college? Did you finish that?

I did. I got kicked out of my school. Which college? I went to Ithaca College. State school? No. It was a private school. Ithaca, right.

I applied to go to a state school, which was SUNY Purchase. And I got busted at the end of my second year in Ithaca college with an ounce of weed and they suspended me but I had gotten accepted into purchase so I transferred did you tell them was someone else's weed at first no it was in my pocket oh fuck it was bad it was bad um and I wound up transferring to purchase and I did really well at purchase but that's where I did heroin for the first time but the weed like it's so weird now. That wouldn't even fucking matter. I know. They're selling bud on Houston Street right now

in a little fucking coffee cart. You go out of Katz's, there's a bud coffee cart. Really? Yeah. And you don't even need a card there, huh? Nothing. It's just totally legal. Totally legal.

It's like, I can't think about that shit. Not stores yet. Just like weird coffee carts, trucks, fucking dudes. No, but just the fact that I can go down the street. Yeah. And like, because like, I mean, it's like you can say when you're in recovery, like, nah, it wasn't my thing. This wasn't my thing.

Heroin wasn't my thing. It wasn't. But you know, weed was just like fucking breakfast. Who gives a fuck? I always had weed on me. Did you like weed? Yeah. I loved weed. I loved loved weed i loved it i loved it

but you've been out here forever 22 years sober watching weed get fucking legal i don't pay attention and i work around booze all the time like that's like the one thing that like i can honestly say about working a program is that the obsession will be lifted like i can honestly say that i don't know that is the magic i'm not sure how it happened but i work in bars all the fucking time i see people like you know i a lot of the women i've been with them in the last decade or two have been weed people and i just like i don't do it i don't think about it i mean it's annoying and sometimes when i smell weed i'm like oh yeah but but like i don't like i never get into that zone of like, fuck, it's legal.

You know what I mean? Is it still bad for me? No, I don't think about it either. What I think about is getting really old and smoking bong hits and listening to the Allman Brothers. Like really old, though. You know what I mean? Like 80, 75, rocking chair. That's the big goal.

When it's all done, man, I'm going to smoke some weed. And listen to the Allman Brothers. The Allman Brothers? Why that one? I don't know. There's just something so buddy. Interesting. Which album?

I'd listen to like Eat a Peach. Uh-huh. Listen to Eat a Peach. Live at the Fillmore? I'd rather listen to Eat a Peach. Huh. I just love hearing Dickie Betts sing. Really?

Yeah. This is a weird thing. I love hearing him sing Blue Sky. I think it's great. Wow. And I love the roads on Blue Sky where it's like building. Yeah. This is a weird thing. I love hearing him sing Blue Sky. I think it's great. Wow. And I love the roads on Blue Sky where it's like building. That song just does something for me. My wife makes fun of me that I love Blue Sky songs.

But that's the only one? No, no. I like all of it, but I like when Dickie Betts sings more than anything else in the Allman Brothers. That's crazy because Greg's the great singer. I like Dickie's voice better. Okay, fine. You like Greg's voice better? I do like Greg's voice. I like Dickie's voice better. Okay, fine. You like Greg's voice better? I do like Greg's voice.

I like old Greg voice. That, like, Midnight Rider, that's the one. Oh, yeah, Midnight. And Whipping Post, come on. Okay, I'm with you. I'm with you. All right, so here you are. You know, you're doing the bands.

You're out on a weed bust out of Ithaca, and you go to SUNY Purchase. Yeah. And some guy gives you dope. Yeah. Basically, every, I mean mean what year is that it was 94 95 so the white stuff's all over the good dope it was it seemed good it seemed good to me like when I was there in the late 80s that's when everyone was dropping dead that's when they realized that they could you know if they didn't cut the dope they could

get kids like you want it because people would snort it you know, if they didn't cut the dope, they could get kids like you want it because people would snort it. You know, before that it was just sort of like stepped on all the fuck because a bunch of, you know, strung out idiots were shooting it. But somewhere in the late eighties, they're like, why can't we make this for kids? You know, if, yeah, if, if we, if we don't cut it as much, they can snort it and we'll get them. And some, I had a roommate, it was my best friend at the time and he had a friend who was like a rocker guy yeah and he was always on the lower east side and he was addicted to heroin since he was like 16 shooting it no at that point i think he was snorting right

and he came up to purchase yeah he busted out a bunch of lines of dope and i and i did a line and i got fucking destroyed i was puking i woke up with some girl that I didn't want to wake up with did you do anything what do you mean with the girl yeah I think so probably yeah and uh and I was like this is too much for me I was like this is I that was my experience when I snorted my first heroin it's projectile vomited and slept yeah I might get like but I used to do a joke about it where where you know it's, this isn't for me. But if you're a real addict and you're a heroin addict, after that fucking first experience, you're like, I'll get down into this. I heard you say that joke at the movie thing.

Yeah. Yeah. No, for me, I got sick and I was like, I don't want to do this. Yeah. And I loved weed. I loved weed so much. I think it's a pretty short jump from weed to heroin in a way, in terms of the type of high. It's very similar. It's just intensity. And by the time I became a heroin addict, which was years later, I needed something different from the drug.

I had my neurotic, my neuroses was too intense. But so you snorted. What happens, though? Like, what makes you recommit, try again? Well, I kind of got a little career in television after I graduated from Purchase. How long after you did the dope? What, junior year? I did dope in junior year. But you're just chipping? You're just here and there? No, never.

I did it one time. Okay. And I never did it again until i was i was hosting or i was uh producing this show so you graduate college yeah communications degree no art history art history and photography really yeah i started in communications at ithaca and i became a stoner and i and i was like watching art history classes you do well yeah i wound up doing well at history like uh you were taking pictures or or uh history of photography i was taking pictures and i was doing art history art history was my major photo was my minor huh my whole childhood

i was just obsessed with tv watching television yeah like i was raised by the television basically yeah and then when i got into college because i I became a stoner, I got really interested in, like, beat shit and fucking art and music. And all that shit became, like, really interesting to me. That's one way to go in college. Yeah. That's the Jewish son of teacher's way to go. Pre-heroin addict. Yeah, pre-heroin addict.

Totally. That's a guy who's not worried about money way to go. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. I wasn't worried about money. Yeah. And I wanted to be cool like i wanted to like in my head i was like it was still on the

table that i could be like john lennon or something in my mind like the fantasy i have that today yeah i do too unfortunately i still do too um but like so that all interested me and and it kind of worked with the drugs and with psychedelics and all that shit kind of all happened at the same time and when i got out i like i got some bullshit jobs like working in promotion and then a buddy of mine was working for mtv and he sprained his ankle and he said do you want do you want a pa at this company yeah and it was a it was a tiny company called burly bear network i know burly. That was owned by Lorne Michaels. Yeah. And I got a job there.

And the first day I get there, the guy looks at me and he says, just so you know, I've done more drugs than you ever do, but I want to hire you. What was his name? His name was James Mayers. I remember Burley Bear. It was sort of this college angle. It was this college angle. Yeah. And I worked there and I rose through the ranks very quickly. Like I started as a PA. They had a show called Half Baked before Dave Chappelle did a movie called Half Baked. And it's before Vice did their Cooking with Bud show. And it was this stoner guy who like cooked food high for stoner kids. And my job was to make sure he wasn't too high but make sure that he was high enough

so i had to bring weed buy weed bring it to the set smoke him up if he got too high like give him a sandwich like let him regulate his high and um and then they had me on air to enable her yeah basically yeah production assistant no a pe a paid enabler well i was a marijuana i was the marijuana coordinator i think the guy the guy who hired you knew that? Yeah. I mean, he hired me as a PA, but he said, listen. Why did he tell you he'd done more drugs than you? I think he wanted to impress me.

Oh, okay. He was like a frat NYU guy who was a total Keith Richards disciple. Like, he lived for Keith. Okay. And he wanted to be this wild guy. That's counter to frat. I know. All right.

I know. I think he was Canadian. Huh. I know. Very mishmash. Yeah. Mish this wild guy. That's counter to frat. I know. All right. I know. I think he was Canadian. Huh. I know. Very mishmash. Yeah. Mishmash guy. So you're there on set getting guys high for their job.

And that turned into like an on-air job there. You were on air? Yeah. I was on air there. Doing what? Just like hosting. They'd do hour segments and I would throw to the shows and do dumb shtick. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Yeah. casting they do hour segments and i would throw to the shows and yeah do dumb shtick yeah you know yeah yeah and uh and then they had a music video show and they were like do you want to produce

this music video show yeah and i was like yeah and at the same time the first video they gave me was a krs1 video from boogie down productions and i saw that krs1 was playing at tramps and i was like well what if i go interview them right and they were like cool so i went and i interviewed caris one and we shot a microphone that said burley bear on it i don't think it said anything on it i didn't have the little box on the mic no no i know we didn't have i didn't have they didn't give me one of those and and then they let me turn it into my own show then they made the music video show separate and we started a little show called shuffle and i interviewed anybody that i could get in get in Manhattan that would be playing a show. Like I interviewed the Flaming Lips.

I interviewed Fleetwood Mac. Irving Plaza people. Yeah. Irving Plaza people. Tony Iommi. Bob Weir. Oh, those are big. Yeah, it was cool.

But by the time I interviewed- Did you know Jake? Fogelness? Yes, I did. He won't give me his number though, Jake Fogelness. Really? I think when he got to Burly Bear, I was smashed out on heroin, and he was smashed out on heroin, and we didn't acknowledge it. Like, we were both there.

He came in after I had established myself, and he was like a star, and I was very intimidated by him. Oh, so he... It was post-squirt. Oh, so you were already there, but he had made his name doing his own thing. At MTV. He was, like, big time. Yeah, yeah you were already there, but he had made his name doing his own thing. At MTV. He was like big time. Yeah, yeah. In his room.

Yeah. So when does the, so you're hosting shows, you're talking to Bob Weir. When did you start to get strung out? Then. Like two years before I talked to Bob Weir, I started to get strung out. But wait, what made you go back to dope? Okay. I was like a location scout for their, they had a terrible little college talk show. And they would send me out to campuses to find guests for their talk show.

And like to scout it out, find audience, find guests. And I moved in one of my best friends into my apartment in Manhattan. And when I got home, we had found a drug delivery service. And all the kids from Purchase were in my apartment to buy Coke. They had come in to hang out with my friend who was a total train wreck. Was he a Coke dealer? My friend? No. My friend actually delivered weed around the city. His name was Todd. My friend actually delivered weed around the city. His name was Todd.

And he invited the Coke guy that he loved. He loved Coke. Yeah. And all these kids are in our apartment to get the Coke delivered. And I walked in. I had just been in Eastland. You a Coke guy? No. And I'm like, fuck, this dude is in my apartment making all this money.

What are you going to give me? He takes out two bags of heroin, throws them on the coffee table. He was from a delivery service called Indulge. And it was right when these delivery services were taking off. I didn't know they did that. Yeah. It was a black card with a white silhouette of a guy with a top hat. You've got to have someone vouch for you for that shit?

Yeah. Totally. And my friend was a weed delivery guy. He knew a bunch of doormen who knew this Indulge company. Indulge comes with fucking- They still around? I don't know. No, I don't think so so i think they went out of business soon after some people like indulge write that down see if i can dude there's crazy drug deliveries in manhattan you know yeah still yeah he had ghb he had heroin he had coke he had ecstasy he probably had some doses

somewhere i don't know yeah and he threw us two free bags of heroin yeah and we snorted him and i and i was so high and i didn't feel bad i felt great and in the morning i woke up i think we watched the simpsons and i passed out and in the morning i was like i still i still was high i was like this is how i want to feel and i knew the rest of my life this is how i want to feel but i knew that i couldn't handle what all the anxiety went away yes all I think I think that's what what the appeal of it is outside of the orgasmic rush one gets from you know slamming the shit but I don't think that you can get that when he snorted really you can get pretty close at the first time the first time you're not puking you can get pretty

close it's different but like if it's the first time you're snorting i mean the snorting definitely dulls but all i ever wanted in my life was to not care so much about everything yeah you know i mean like i care so much about every stupid thing you worry about you worry i mean care is it really care it's yeah i mean i you got a busy brain it's the worst version of caring because you're caring about the dumbest shit yeah but i don't know if care is the right word because i have it too but i i i i wonder if there's a better word because i think it's more of a something relative to obsession it's not really something relative to concern it's neuroses meets obsession and all i wanted was the i wanted to say i don't give a fuck and actually mean it and i never did until then yeah i'm finding a little of that's happening you know about some

things as i get older they're not giving a fuck i'm getting a little bit better at it too yeah thank god i still get hung up on bullshit dude like it but that's like you know you start to realize like this is just my way of uh of not of avoiding the real pain or avoiding the real sadness or avoiding the thing that's really bothering me. I'll just get hung up on, like this morning in the rain, I had fucking four boxes of that fucking soda, the death, the liquid death or whatever. Yeah. That they sent. I can open a store. But all the boxes were on the porch, so they were getting all wet.

And I'm like, that's going to be a pain in the ass to deal with because I've got to stack those boxes. And if the boxes within the boxes get wet, they're going to be all soggy and they're going to have cans all over the place. So I better reckon with this now. So in the morning, this morning, after I took my car in, I'm unpacking liquid death boxes so I can stack them in the fucking garage so they don't get all soggy. And it was important. What is that about? I hear you. I have liquid death in my garage, too.

I understand exactly what you're saying. Yeah. I can get very upset about stuff all the time. But when I, it's like I can get sick, but then you talk to somebody else. I mean, that's the joy of recovery is being able to deal with your shit by helping somebody else. Sure. And they start texting you. Yeah, I know.

I know. It goes badly once in a while. But I once in a while but I've learned my lesson I've learned my lesson you learn how to you well the great thing about recovery really if you can handle it is is what you do learn like all the stuff that you learn you don't realize you learn patience that's like the karate kid like sitting at meetings going like no shit not this fucking idiot it's like the karate kid like sitting at meetings going like oh shit not this fucking idiot it's like but then you realize one day it's like oh this is part of it right and then or the other thing is boundaries like you know if you're going to sponsor somebody keep it about recovery

or you're going to be out some money and maybe some merchandise did that happen with you not really but like because you know i have a, public profile, it becomes tricky for me to sponsor because I'm also, you know, a codependent and my boundaries are bad. So really, like I know guys that only sponsor through email. That's interesting. Well, yeah. I mean, but, you know, like when you really think about like depending on what kind of person you are and how much you're going to engage in sponsorship. I mean, you know, it takes a lot because if you get enmeshed with somebody, you know, it's no longer about sponsorship. Like I had sponsors that like, you know, just shut up and do this work and, and that's it. And I'll listen to you talk about bullshit

and then I'll hang up. You know, that's hard for me, but that's what the job is. Yeah. Well, the job is to take you through the steps. That's it. job is yeah well the job is to take you through the steps that's it my sponsor is like he's like he says he's like a real long island guy and he's like just keep your fucking mouth shut don't fucking worry that's the best kind call me tomorrow that's the best kind because eventually those guys though you eventually get frustrated because you're not getting enough like you know you're not getting parented properly and then you go find the fucking sponsor that's more like you and then you know inside a few years you're like are you even my sponsor anymore right yeah it's like i i i love

i i actually have sponsees now which shocked me that's great and i have a sponsor and it's and it's working out nicely but back then fucking i as soon as i got my deal making my own show and they gave me like a contract for two years, I was like addicted to heroin. Like the next day. I was like, I can afford it. I didn't think I could afford it until then. Oh, wow. And it was like, it wasn't a lot of money.

So like right after you woke up and said, I want to feel like this all the time, it was only a matter of how long? It was like a year and a half. Of doing it occasionally? Of doing it, you know, it's the old story. I did it once a week. Then I would do it on Wednesdays. Saturday, Sunday, Wednesday. Saturday, Sunday, Wednesday, story. I did it once a week. Then I would do it on Wednesdays. Saturday, Sunday, Wednesday. Saturday, Sunday, Wednesday, Thursday.

The week starts earlier and earlier. Yeah. And it just, but it didn't. Boy, you look forward to it though, right? I really loved it. I really loved it. Wednesday can't get here sooner than that, man. But I remember.

But I'm not going to do it Tuesday. I'm not doing it today. You know the Lou Reed heroine, you know, when he says, I made aine, you know, when he says I made a big decision, like I felt like I made a big decision, like I was going to do it like I was in. I remember thinking like because I knew that I couldn't handle withdrawal and I wasn't like lying to myself that I could ever not have it. I needed to have it every day. And I was like, that's what I'm doing. I remember I was just like they were paying me a lot of money. This is my job. I grew up in low every day. And I was like, that's what I'm doing. I remember. I was just like, they were paying me a lot of money. It's like, this is my job.

I grew up in low-income housing. Yeah. I got an apartment in low-income housing when I was 21. My mother put me on a list when I was 11. Yeah. I got the place when I was 21. It was $300 a month for a big studio on 24th Street and 8th Avenue. Yeah.

And I was making like 100 grand a year and I couldn't pay for it. Oh. You know? I just fucking- I just don't understand. What else were you doing? Heroin. Heroin. But what does that happen i mean how how you were just snorting it yeah that i snorted a lot of it i was at the end of it i was snorting like three hundred dollars a day and then i and then and then it turned into shooting and then i was shooting three hundred

dollars a day how the fuck i mean like i i guess your tolerance gets built up, but that's a lot of dime bags, dude. It's three bundles of heroin every day. Ten bags. Yeah. And you get it cheaper, but you run out of money. And I got into pills, and I still smoked weed. It's like three bundles. So how many bags are you doing per snort at a sitting?

Like two, three? I don't even remember what it was like I could barely even at my peak I could barely get through a fucking eight ball in a night well I think it's different

with the tolerance wise with heroin because the tolerance really grows and I don't remember I don't remember how it went with the snorting

I just remember that I couldn't afford it and I started shooting but then I remember I would take you know did you have to be taught to shoot

yeah and I was terrible at it I was terrible at it for a long time yeah keep missing yeah and it was i was a bloody fucking mess like i heard you on the show the other day and you were like i come from a long line of drivers and it's like i'm a fucking passenger like i'm not great at driving i'm not great at shooting dope i'm like eventually i got good at it because i kind of had to. But I would take these $80 shots, $90 shots, $100 shots. Waste them? No, I would fucking hit them.

I'm just saying like my addiction got to that kind of place. All right. So when do you lose the job? Pretty quickly. I lost the job the first time I ran out of money. So it was a two-year deal and you lost it it was a three-year deal I lost it in the second the beginning of the second year because you're strung out because it was it was a kind of classic thing where I ran out of money I didn't

want to ask my parents for more the dealers weren't fronting me anymore and I was like and he lost the apartment not yet I was like I want to go to. Do I tell Burly Bear or do I tell my parents? And I was like, I'm going to tell my parents. And Burly Bear fired me for breach of contract. They were looking for a way to fire me. If I just told them, they would have had to send me to rehab. Oh, so you fucked up again. Yeah, I fucked up again. Totally. And then after that, I didn't work. I just was on unemployment. So you cleaned up? No, I didn't clean up.

Did you go to rehab? I just was on unemployment. So you cleaned up? No, I didn't clean up. Did you go to rehab? I went to rehab a bunch of times. I went to rehab. At that point, I was doing detoxes at Beth Israel, free detoxes.

It was a mess. They would shoot you a Valium until you leveled off? No, they give you methadone. They give you methadone. So you were going to part of the methadone parade? Yeah, I was on methadone for like 15 years. I used to see those guys on like 3rd Avenue they'd just be weird junkie talk

that's my favorite I'm not gonna piss today they're gonna test me it's like that was like classic I was on methadone in Los Angeles for 6 years that's worse cause you gotta get a ride there no I drove and it was a fucking disaster. You get so fucking high from methadone.

Not if you take it every day. You don't. So you try to clean up in New York, kind of, but it doesn't sound really. And then when did you start shooting the dope? I started shooting the dope in New York. After you lost a job? After I lost a job.

I went to a rehab. I came home. We left early. I lost a job. I went to a rehab. I came home with one. We left early. I left early from the rehab with some junkie and he was like, why are you wasting your money snorting the dope? Let's shoot the dope. And I started shooting the dope after that. And I loved it. You didn't get hep C or nothing?

No, it was a miracle. It was a miracle. Were you sharing a lot of needles? No. I shared one needle one time. And you're obsessed about it for half your life. Yeah, still thinking about it. I'm still waiting for it to come. And then I went to, then my parents sent me to Florida. They got a cheap deal on a rehab and I went to Florida.

And that's when they gave away my apartment. And they didn't tell you? They told me. They told me that the counselor was like, my rent was $300 a month, and my parents were paying the rent. And the counselor was like, you're enabling this guy. And they were. But everyone in my rehab were like millionaires.

We didn't have any money. You can't get a thing like that. Was it in Sivison Town? No, it was in Penn South. It was on 20... You know the buildings on 8th Avenue, the big red buildings? Like, I don't know. It's between 24th Street and 29th Street on 8th Avenue.

My dad still lives there. That fancy it's beautiful john f kennedy built the place in 1963 they're beautiful it was the international there's a bunch of them jewish garment workers union buildings oh aren't there penthouses and shit in there no you're thinking of the ones on grand street that went private and the orthodox jews buy like four apartments and build staircases between them it's fucking cool but in our and the one my dad still lives in still public uh-huh and um still rent control it's public it's it's it's totally subsidized oh wow okay and um i wound up going to florida they gave away the apartment and that's when i came out here to do what to to start another career in television production and were you clean for any amount of time a couple months i came i came todd moved out to la the guy who was you know giving my

friends drugs in my apartment i moved to todd's house he told me he wasn't doing drugs but i didn't know he had just started doing meth so like i was on meth within like a week of coming here from florida oh Florida tell me what part of town you were living in we lived in North Hollywood oh and then my girlfriend came out

you had a girlfriend yeah I had a girlfriend was she doper no she was a stoner and she came out and we got an apartment

together in Echo Park and I lived in Echo Park for how were you making a living I wasn't not at all so how'd you get an apartment? She paid for it.

Oh, you scumbag. I know. Seven years. There were two cats in our house and me. This is the scumbag part. I know. Well, it's just... It was enabling, you know, and I was on methadone and heroin.

She knew? She knew. And living in Echo Park. Where's that girl now? She, like, got rich. Now she retired. She's living in woodstock she got it was like the story of her it's like i feel bad that we're talking so much like i didn't

expect to be talking this much about stuff that wasn't dopey um but i don't know you didn't do you listen to my show i do but i just i don't know why i don't know why i just figured i would talk about dopey but what happened can you talk show? The fucked up thing about this woman was that she, one of my best friends from Hunter that I had made friends with him when I was four, still friends with him. She was his girlfriend and she left him for me in, in,

in, in the beginning of my heroin addiction. Big mistake. And that was really what compounded my guilt. Yeah. Like that thing because he's like my brother yeah and like like i didn't talk to him for like i don't know 10 years or something talk to him now yeah yeah so she made a fortune she wound up like a year after after we

broke up after what she finally say fuck you no i was like i i broke up with her because why because you were living in the street because no but at that point we had lived in la my mom got diagnosed with leukemia i decided i needed i needed to get off methadone and i needed to see my mother because i couldn't live with being on methadone in los angeles while my mother was dying we come back together did you ever do anything out here yeah i got a job working for Channel 9. I did a magazine show called Nine on the Town. And I was like the associate producer. And I would shoot dope in their bathroom.

In their bathroom, there was a private bathroom with a drawer. And I kept a tissue box full of needles in their bathroom. Thinking like this was something I should do. Yeah. Good decision. Terrible. Did they find it? No.

But they fired me and they were like it's obvious you're on drugs i was like how is it obvious yeah but i was fucking totally on drugs nodding out at the board after that i like did nothing out here basically very little when you broke up with the chick where'd you live we i moved in with my friend's mother in manhattan oh so you came back we moved to bur Burlington. Who? Me and this woman. New life. I lasted two months. And I was like, I can't live here.

We didn't have a car. I was like, winter's coming. That's all I could think. It's going to get cold. I was like, I got to go home. I got to go back to Manhattan. And I got to break up with this woman because I was so sick. And we had a codependent relationship. And she was enabling me.

And I had to get out of it. And that's when I called my cousin and said, can I work at Katz's? And he said, yes. And I got, and I went, and that's when I started at Katz's. When did you meet the dude you hosted Dopey with? 2011. That was like 2008. So you're working at Katz's, doing all the things we talked about. Yes. And then you start buying dope. Yeah, I was smoking weed. I was, oh, and then I met my current partner, and she got pregnant, and my mom died. It's a lot of stuff. My mom dies.

I meet my daughter's mother. She gets pregnant. You're not married? Not yet. We're getting married in August. You have two kids, don't you? Yeah, two kids don't you yeah two kids so you're you're fucking she didn't know you're a drug addict she knew i was a drug addict

but i wasn't doing heroin i wasn't doing i wasn't doing anything but smoking weed when you tell her about the heroin yeah she knew everything and she still got decided to have your child yeah well she was 35 she got pregnant and she was like i I'm going to keep this baby. And I was like, all right, let's do it. And then that same guy, Todd, who I've told you about, showed up at our apartment in Astoria with heroin. And that's when I started doing heroin again. And my wife left me with our baby. Baby was little. And that's when I went to rehab and I met Chris, who I started Dopey with. Huh. In 2011? rehab and i met chris who i started dopey with huh in 2011 yeah i met him in rehab he was the worst drug addict i had ever met he had been in rehab like 16 times you're like that's my friend he was funny yeah he was like the big chief and one flew over the cuckoo's nest he was like i did he talk he talked but he had been in it was like a 28 day program and he had been there for like six months yeah like he barely went to groups He would hide in his room and this and that.

Rich kid? Very rich kid. Yeah. Very rich kid. And then when I got out of there, he would kind of show up at Katz's. He would bring girlfriends to Katz's. It's my guy. There's Dave.

Yeah. Dave, get his sandwiches? Yeah. It was like that. It's like you. Oh. Yeah, it's like that. It's like you. And then fucking what happened was I started smoking weed and I had this vision that I wanted to do another show at Katz's. So I started doing a show called The Last Jewish Waiter about a waiter who hates his job because I was waiting tables. It's a video show?

Yeah, it's on YouTube. And it was a show about a waiter who hates waiting tables, but he wants to do a talk show. So he does a talk show while he waits tables. And it got some acclaim. And Paper Magazine wrote about it. And The Eater wrote about it. And I got a deal with the Anthony Bourdain team. They did a shopping deal for me.

And they ruined it. And Chris was like, dude, you know, this is amazing. I want to do something. And I was still getting high. And me and my daughter's mother were trying to get back together. And she found out that I started to take pills again. Where are you getting the pills? Katz's.

You know, like weirdos at Katz's and stuff. Drug addicts here and there. But just like Klonopin or Xanax. But that was the beginning. And I also was dating and girls were giving me pills. It was just, it was a mess. And then me and my daughter's mother were trying to get back together. She found out about the pills.

Yeah. And she's like, you're losing your custody again. Yeah. And that's when I was like, I got to get fucking sober. Right. And it was then that i started going to 12-step meetings for real and i took it seriously and um that was when and then chris was like holy shit the last jewish waiter is so cool what can i do like that and i was like i don't

know and then i was like oh yeah you have these crazy drug stories we should start a podcast about the worst drug stories that we ever did. So he was sober. He was two years sober and I was four months sober when we started. So he was like doing it. He was doing it hardcore. And you primarily did it out of fear of losing your kid. I did it because I had gotten to that point where I was 41

and my whole life was, as you just heard, one horrible thing after another. And this was the top of my life. I'm a waiter at Katz's. I'm subletting an apartment, and I was like, this is 41 years of life. And you have a kid on Long Island. And I had a kid on Long Island who I loved more than anything. And I was like, when I heard them say,

rarely have we seen a person fail who thoroughly follows this thing, I was like, I I heard them say, rarely have we seen a person fail who thoroughly follows this thing. I was like, I've never thoroughly done anything. I was like, what if 41 years, this is what I have. How old was your daughter? She was four. Oh, so a real little person. Yeah. And I loved her.

And I just, my dad was a great parent to me. My mom was a good parent to me. I wanted to be a good parent. So when your mom died, were you able to show up for that? Yeah yeah I was uh and she was high on the law to dying and she laughed she's like laughed at me she's like oh my god David this is the first time I understand what you were doing you know I I did I it was a miracle that I got to see my mother before she died like it was because there has been years and years and years where I was just gone, miserable, debauched. So when I got sober, Chris was like, we should do something.

And me and my current partner weren't together. And I had just played in bands to stay busy. And I was like, let's try a podcast. I didn't know what a podcast was. You know? Yeah. And then you started doing it? Started doing it, I think think in December of 2015.

And I never missed a week until, never. Never? Never. Two a week, one a week? In the beginning we did two a week because we had a stupid kind of setup. Yeah. But then it turned into one a week and I've done one a week since. And like we've hit.

Always guests? No, no. For the first 14 142 episodes it was mostly just me and chris hanging out like here and there we'd have a guest like like danny boy o'connor from house of pain would show up at cats is and i didn't even know he was sober i was like do you want to come on the podcast and talk about smoking weed yeah and it turned out he had 12 years oh you know and it was cool and um and then we had this listenership you know what i mean we had all Oh, wow. the ankle recovery or are you just celebrating the fucked up things we did the idea was people who have been like us had an experience and it's just like that's it like just to capture the experience how is that like how's not gonna my question is always sort of like how's that not

gonna make people who are trying to stay sober go like i remember that was the beginning and and it was like the first episode chris told a story about being in a blackout in Los Angeles, wanting drugs, going to a veterinarian's clinic, knocking out the vet assistant to get phenylbarbitol. And he got arrested. Helicopters came. And he went to jail for like a year. At the end of the episode, I was like, you know what? We need to say we're sober because people are going to think that we're just glorifying drugs. So the recovery kind of got baked in just by qualifying the fact that we were sober.

And what happened with Chris? Ay, ay, ay. What year? Chris died in 2018. But six weeks before Chris died died that guy todd died and the guy who lived in my apartment the guy who lived out here and he was like the devil in your story he was one of them yes he was the devil on my shoulder and he died and what od you know fentanyl yeah he died of a fentanyl overdose on purpose i don't don't know. I don't think so.

No, I mean, like, did he know he was getting fentanyl? I don't think so. I don't think he cared. I just think he was so fucking done with his life. His life was just total fucking hell when he died. When he died, I broke. You know, something inside me just broke. We had just had our second daughter. We had just bought our house.

And my best friend died. What do you mean? Broke how? You were sober just i was sober yeah but i i was emotionally fucking destroyed from this guy dying like that and the show changed then i couldn't really laugh in the same way about the worst shit because my best friend just died and then and chris was in a graduate school program to get a phd in psychology he had this girlfriend who was in harvard he lived in boston and six weeks after todd died uh he died um out of nowhere a relapse relapse overdose dead first time for it was that was the relapse or he didn't do i don't know i mean i think this

the story kind of came out that he had gone on vacation with his girlfriend to anguilla and he like tore a muscle in his leg he was in pain and he the funny thing was that on the show on dopey he would be like what's probably going to happen is i'm going to relapse because i'm in pain and overdose he like said it on the show and then it happened you know and and he died and it was like like beyond trauma you know what i mean like for you yeah i mean like and his obviously his family yeah you know uh it was funny the night before he died he called me uh just a mess you know i didn't realize it but he called me just to tell because we were fighting he had when we did dopey we did dopey for for i think two and a half or three and a

half years before he died and um every week he'd come to manhattan he lived in boston he'd come to manhattan or great barrington massachusetts and he'd come to manhattan and at the end he stopped coming and we started like doing sky Skype calls and bullshit fucking episodes. And I was like, dude, it doesn't seem like you're interested in this anymore. But in reality, he was relapsing. And I didn't put it together. He couldn't cop to it. He couldn't cop to it.

His sister runs a like a sober coaching kind of world. And he was a client in his sister's world. And the night before he died, they drug tested him. And the results came back the day after he died. Ugh. Right? So it was pills? No, it was fentanyl.

Ugh. For him, it was fentanyl, alcohol, pills, coke. Fucking, he was like, he was just doing everything. He was the real, like a real serious drug addict. And when he died, a bunch of people in our community had died that we were close with. And then Todd died, and that wrecked me. And when Chris died, it was like crazy town. You know what I mean?

It was just the end of the world in our community because all of these people that listened to the show loved him. He was brilliant and funny and fun and young young he was 10 years younger than me he died at 34 you know or right before he turned right then right when he was about to turn 34 he died and um and then our like our community started this whole thing called dopey nation and you know they do like 25 dopey nation zoom meetings a week now every week and people haveopey Nation and you know they do like 25 Dopey Nation zoom meetings a week now every week and people have dopey tattoos and shit and you know really and it was soon after that that um I didn't know what I was gonna do with the show I I was just like I'm either gonna fucking if if the show stays miserable I'm gonna stop doing it but I didn't want to stop doing it at

first because we have a community of people that were you know entrenched with us and like we were part of their story yeah and like a bunch of people like were like dopey got me sober and i was like okay that's cool it seemed weird didn't seem like it made any sense to me yeah and and i didn't know what the show was going to become because the show is just me and chris fucking being stupid together yeah and um and that's where you come into the picture and and you are my first like you know the expression god shot yeah yeah like i never really liked that expression yeah but i don't like it when people use it for like parking yeah it's a guy it's a god shot it's a fucking spot in front of my house amazing no i'm i'm a cat's and i was supposed to have the guy who wrote Beautiful Boy. I think his name is David Sheff.

As a guest? Yeah. He was coming on the show, and he had the movie Beautiful Boy out, and he emailed me, I'm not going to be able to come on Dopey because I'm doing actual press. I'm going on CBS, and I'm going here and there. He never came on? He did. Oh, okay.

He's like, I can come on in six months or something and i go outside and i'm smoking cigarettes still and uh and i think i was vaping nicotine yeah and i was like the show is done there's nothing i mean like what am i gonna fucking do yeah and you come walking down the street in that moment and i said holy shit said mark maron and i oh and I was bugging you on Twitter before that and I was like retweeting did I respond? No but like when I mentioned Dopey to you you were like yeah you're that fucking annoying guy on Twitter

you know but it was like the greatest fucking moment like I was waiting for you know something to happen and it did and like it really reaffirmed my belief in everything, to be honest with you. Then I walked by and you...

Accosted you. You accosted me, and I said, you're annoying, and you're like, this is it. This is all I've ever wanted. But it's happened with you a few times. Because I stay right there. I know, but what are the odds? I don't know. They're pretty good.

I just was, like, happy that, you know, are the odds i don't i don't know they're pretty good i just was like happy to you know that you know you there there is a convoluted thing that with with addicts and with the world we live in is that in sobriety is that like as annoying as you are you know i was happy you were sober so there's always that undercurrent there but we also we had a bunch of things in common yeah no yeah i mean but that wasn't the time you asked me to do the show. No. The next morning, I invited you for breakfast. Right, and I had eggs.

You had lox and onion omelet. Yeah. And then I brought you a smattering of meat samples. That's right. And then, whatever, you were like, yeah, maybe I'll do the show. And I think the next day, I texted you, and you were like, I'll do the show. Just stop annoying me. And then the next day, we did the you were like i'll do the show just stop annoying me and then the next day we did the show uh in and at your hotel yeah and then i waited tables at cats's for 10 hours

right after the interview yeah it was a good interview i thought it was great yeah and but in the sense that not looking to uh toot my own horn here but like what was it why was it so impactful that that i've how did i facilitate this shift that what i mean you would listen to me before i listened to you before i really liked your show on ifc right all right i was really interested in that and the fact that you were sober yeah and were a huge podcaster i was like and i would talk to chris i was like we should get this guy on the show somehow chris hated interviewing people he just like wanted to hang out and i was and i i always had it in my in the back of my head that you would be the ideal guest for dopey and you were because you know how to do this yeah and you've been through something and like i think

we had a very similar sort of ambition and we're interested in similar things. And I figured we would, it would jibe and it did. But like, it was just like. I just can't co-host it. Is this where this is going? Are you going to ask me to co-host? Yes, I think that's what I'm looking for. I know Dark Fonzie just went dark.

So I thought maybe you'd want to jump into Dopey. Now I'm going to jump on Marin. My time. No, I'm just saying like it was impactful. And it also just was like it was something good. And then we started getting bigger guests. And I have been incredibly tenacious and annoying with a lot of people. Sure.

And we got some. But the thing, you can sort of couch it in, you know, service. Yeah, but I don't feel comfortable with it. No, I mean, but no, you don't have to say that. But if you're talking. It's implied, right. Yeah, if you're talking to people in recovery and you go, this is the't feel comfortable with it. No, I mean, but no, you don't have to say that. But if you're talking to- It's implied, right. Yeah, if you're talking to people in recovery and you go, this is the kind of podcast this is. You know, I don't help enough.

Well, Jamie Lee Curtis, right, was at Katz's before Chris died. And she's like getting a bagel and cream cheese for Christopher Guest. And she's leaving in a knish for him or something. And I'm like, someone's like, yo, that's Jamie Lee Curtis. And I run out of the store. I run out of the bag. In your fucking Katz shirt and a knish for him or something. And I'm like, someone's like, yo, that's Jamie Lee Curtis. And I run out of the store. I run out of the bag. In your fucking cat shirt and a hat? In the hood, in the sweatshirt and the hat

with my apron because I'm waiting tables. And I run outside and I like did the Bugs Bunny and I'm waiting for her outside, like smoking a cigarette. And I'm like, Jamie Lee Curtis, would you come on my podcast? It's all about drugs, addiction and dumb shit. And she's like, I'm a dope fiend.

And I was like, I'm a dope fiend too. And she said she would come on. But then when she knew we were laughing about the story, she said, I'm not coming on to that show. And it wasn't until after Chris died that she was like, oh, come on now. Wow. It was weird.

She cried on Dopey. Yeah. Yeah, very powerful. Yeah, we're all kind of raw. Yep. Who else have you had on I've had I don't know

oh Danny Trejo sure Killer Mike yeah you know Killer Mike yeah he's great I've not had Killer Mike on

well he's great just tell him you'll buy him yeah Run the Jewels yeah it's just like I don't know enough about his music I didn't know enough

about his music either he's just a cats guy okay Mackenzie Phillips just came on this week. How's she? She's great. She wants you to have her on.

I told her I was going to see you. So you primarily just wait around the deli for people to walk in that might be celebrities? Yes. I have a dopey sign-up sheet in the front.

No, I mean, the people I've gotten out of Cats is are you, Jamie Lee Curtis, Killer Mike, Bob Forrest, you know? And Bob Forrest, he got us to Dr. Drew and whatever. And then I just go crazy and I write anybody I can and I just do whatever I can to make it happen, to will it. And it seems like you're getting real advertisers.

You've got some of the same ones I do. I mean, dude, it's going good. Good. And it's still fun're getting real advertisers. Got some of the same ones I do. I mean, like, dude, it's going good. Good. And it's still fun. Yeah. That's why it's important. So, like, how's everything

with your family? I met your wife or your partner and I bought you dinner before a show. It was great. It was great. That's when you floated the idea

about me coming on your podcast. Yeah, because you're just like one of those guys like, ah, fuck, he's here again. I never asked to come on. I never asked to come on. I never asked to come on. It was implied. Maybe.

Yes, it was implied. But yeah, my family's really good. We're getting married this summer. My older daughter's 11. My younger daughter's three. Wow. I'm still at Katz's, which- But you're behind the scenes now.

Yes, I'm at corporate Katz's. Corporate Katz's. Almost. They make fun of me and call me corporate Katz's until I'm like making bag lunches for 150 people. That's the kind of shit you do? Sometimes. Sometimes I make big deals. Events?

Yeah, we do events, catering. But that guy who I met, he was a little overwhelmed the last time I saw him. The boss. Jake. What's his name? Jake. Yeah. Jake what?

Jake Dell. He's the guy who owns it. He owns it. Coming into that, just out of curiosity. overwhelmed the last time i saw him the boss what's his name jake yeah jake what jake dell he's the guy who owns it he owns it coming into that just out of curiosity what did he do to to because now people like it's ridiculous to wait it's the only real jewish deli in town i guess i barney's greengrass barney's is still there it's still there i've never been there me neither but but cats is a destination people wait two, three hours to eat there. No, no, no. Two hours. No way.

Even if the line is down the street and over, it's 20 minutes. Oh, okay. So, but what did he do? I mean. He didn't change any recipes. He didn't change anything. The most brilliant thing he did was like blow up cats is shipping so you could get cats is anywhere in the country and like he had that vision he knew he couldn't put anybody else in

the store and he's like but i know there's a lot of people in america that want to eat and that and that that pays the bills i mean we do we do good the coolest thing about cats is it's 133 years old yeah it's great you walk in there and you feel like you're someplace that doesn't exist yeah and every day that it stays open that becomes more true because other places close so it existing is a magic place very magic so but but i think it's really like what i always say is that the reason you don't have deli in most places real deli is you gotta have turnover like if you you can't there's no way he's serving yesterday's pastrami no because you can't well we're very very busy no but that's but that's what makes it good there's no other way to do it like if you've got fucking pastrami or corn be sitting around for three fucking days can't eat

it no but they do that's why that's why there's no deli anywhere but it's like the chicken and the egg you know what i mean you need to turn over in order to keep it but if nobody comes you can't turn it over no i get that but but that's why it only exists in New York. You know, like some people ordering that fucking, you know, the pre-cooked Hebrew National packed corned beef, you know, and they'll do that like in the middle of nowhere at the deli. But it's not the same as getting fresh hot corned beef out of a steam table and slicing that shit. There's nothing like walking up to a counter, having a dude take a gigantic hunk of meat and cut it in front of you it's like it's very magical it's very but it's also fresh and it's good and it's but so the recipes are all the same

everything is the same do you cook it on site yeah no shit yeah everything is right there and it's i mean there's guys there that's worked there for 45 years jake came in at like 22 and he was like he was he was either going to go to medical school or take over cats and he fell in love with the jewish dilemma right exactly and meanwhile i'm like this junkie waiter in there you know you can't but you're moving up in the business i don't know i i mean like i'm doing fine like i cats is the job that i know like i all i want is for dopey to be bigger you know i want dopey to be mainstream i want dopey to be a living but i know that if i ever leave cats is it will have

been the greatest job i ever had but while i'm in it is right you know what i'm saying but dopey is all you you're doing everything i do everything i have a friend who helps me produce it yeah he like goes through the material with me and helps me plan stuff and then i have another friend who helps me produce it. He goes through the material with me and helps me plan stuff. And then I have another guy who helps me with a little marketing stuff. There's a lot of people in the dopey community that participate. They make art and they send in voicemails and stories and songs. There's so much original music that comes out of the audience. The audience is incredibly tight.

And there's like 20 people with dopey tattoos. And it's like, cool. I love it. I don't have a tattoo, but. I don't either. Yeah. There's a couple of Marc Maron tattoos out there. Doesn't that make you feel good, though?

It's a little weird. It's weird, but it's awesome. I signed a guy's arm once, and he went out and had it inked. My signature. Wow. Yeah. This Big Bird thing? Yeah.

When I was in LA, I didn't work for years. And I decided I needed to get a job. And I saw a kid's party kind of person job. So I go there and they teach you how to blow up balloon animals. And I was like, all right, I'll do a kid's party, but I'm strung out on heroin and I'm super high on heroin. And they give me the costume, and the costume was this fucking cracked out Big Bird costume. Yeah. With like the, you know, like downtown LA, like the matted feathers and the googly eyes that don't look like Big Bird. And they had the big Big Bird feet, but they didn't give me tights. So like I had hairy legs like that picture. And I would go to kids parties high on heroin trying to entertain wearing this fucked up big bird costume with hairy legs yeah and somebody sent me that artwork and now it's like two people have it tattooed on them yeah and like it's a big piece of our like our vibe but it's like that's

that story but like great it is what it is you know it's weird it's weird that my biggest like failure has become like this story that two people have tattooed on them isn't that weird no it's uh it's the uh uh origin myth yeah yeah it's the creation myth it is the creation myth of dopey definitely all right buddy well it was good talking to you i'm glad we did it i'm glad everything's well do you have friends out here i do i have a lot of friends out here oh so there's been's been a fun trip. When I got here, it was totally traumatic, though. Huh? Already? I got off the plane, and I was just like,

all I could think about were the years that I destroyed here. I was totally freaked out. I had to go to a meeting yesterday morning to get my shit together. I gotta go. I was gonna bother you, but I knew better to not bother you. I'm so fucking like, I'm so like, out of the meeting loop, dude.

Well, what are you going to do? Be a dry motherfucker. No. Go to a fucking meeting. I know. Like, it'll make you feel better. It's like, forget spiritual greatness or anything. No, I know. You'll just feel better.

Yeah, it's like, because you got those neural pathways in your head that are all programmed. And you go to the meeting like, this is. You're regenerated. It's crazy it is it's annoying though when i went to that meeting yesterday and i was miserable and i look up at the stupid fucking steps and i'm like this is who i am now i'm this cult fucking member weakling but i felt ready to do that yeah i never do the cult thing anymore it's sort of like that like it's it's what it was one of those dumb things i heard

in the rooms it's like uh some guy says uh he told the sponsor that that he's being brainwashed oh and i my brain needed washing yeah yeah of course yeah but it's like you know what i mean i didn't i never wanted to to to really be like i need this yeah it makes me uncomfortable to need that yeah i don't know i do get a little out of the loop and a little brittle. Yeah, I usually stay in touch with, you know, sober people because I, you know,

all the time, one way or the other, I talk to them. But even that's sort of diminished a little bit. But some woman I just know, it's always weird how this happens.

A woman I know from New York just moved here and she's like, she's pretty gung-ho. She's like, I just found this one. It's great. Game changer.

And everybody here is like, everyone's not, I didn't do Zoom because I couldn't't cope with it i didn't want to deal with it it's uncomfortable yeah so like now they're starting to happen though in reality i've gone in silver lake a couple times with jerry you know you're gonna take me to get my car sure all right nice talking to you dave finally do you feel good about it i feel okay what are you talking about i feel like i talk too much that's what this this is. Was it okay for you? I was here to manage your talking. Was it okay for you?

Yeah, but I don't want you to leave from flying out here going like, I fucked it up. Listen, just to sit with you was worth the whole thing for me. It was worth the whole thing for me. All right, buddy. There you go. Dopey podcast. Get it wherever you get your podcasts okay can you do that now i'm just gonna fucking romp through some dirty blues through the little champ on a les paul custom Thank you. Boomer lives.

Monkey, Lafonda, cat angels everywhere. Okay. Okay. Okay. You can get anything you need with Uber Eats. Well, almost almost anything. So no, you can't get an ice r need with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get an ice rink on Uber Eats. But iced tea and ice cream?

Yes, we can deliver that. Uber Eats. Get almost, almost anything. Order now. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis

marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising.

Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative.