WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1310 - Mira Sorvino

Episode Date: March 3, 2022

Mira Sorvino has a lot of talents beyond acting. She speaks Mandarin Chinese, she dances ballet, she plays guitar. But acting is what Mira believes she was born to do. And then for almost 20 years, she was prevented from doing it on her own terms because of a powerful man and a complicit industry. Mira and Marc talk about how she went from winning an Oscar to being put on a Hollywood blacklist by Harvey Weinstein and how she didn't learn the truth until 17 years later. They also talk about her career renaissance, including her scene-stealing turn on the new series Shining Vale. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Are you self-employed? Don't think you need business insurance? Think again. Business insurance from Zensurance is a no-brainer for every business owner because it provides peace of mind. A lot can go wrong. A fire, cyber attack, stolen equipment, or an unhappy customer suing you. That's why you need insurance. Don't let the, I'm too small for this mindset, hold you back from protecting yourself. Zensurance provides customized business insurance policies starting at just $19 per month. Visit Zensurance today to get a free quote. Zensurance. Mind your business.

Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis store and a cast creative

all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fuck Knicks happening? I'm Mark Maron. This is my podcast, WTF. What's happening? Is everything all right? Are you all right? Is it okay? Are you underwater? Are you on fire? Is it too windy for you to stand on your porch? What's happening? Where are we at? Is it raining ash yet? I'll tell you, it's been kind of nice out here in Los Angeles the last few days. I don't know if I've talked to you. When did I last talk to you? I went to New Mexico.

I don't think I've talked to you since I've been there. I had an okay time. It's weird going home. I looked at some property. I thought maybe I should go home for good or at least spend some time there. But I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know if I want to live up in the mountains in northern New Mexico. I don't know if that's me. As my producer,

Brendan McDonald said when I showed him pictures of it, he said, this is for you. You're going to live there. And I'm like, well, maybe I could spend every few weeks or every month or so I could go out there for a few days. He said, you, the guy who during quarantine for 10 days was texting me like he was the Omega man. All right, I get it. That doesn't mean I can't change, right? Look, I have Mira Sorvino on the show today. And I just want to mention, obviously, I mean, many of you know her. She's an Academy Award winner for her performance in mighty aphrodite she was in guillermo del toro's mimic spike lee's summer

of sam she was recently in ryan murphy's netflix series hollywood and she's in the new star series shining veil with courtney cox and greg kinnear but it's it's heavy man you know she had a big chunk of her career taken from her by harveystein. Directors like Peter Jackson have admitted they were told by Weinstein not to cast her in projects years after she had endured sexual harassment by the pig and rejected his advances. It's heavy, man. This took a big toll on her. And she's a great actress. But I'm here to tell you it's all still very raw and difficult for Mira. And we talk about it.

We talk about all of it. And I just want to make sure that you know what's coming ahead of time here. It's emotional stuff. On a lighter note, I had a couple of nice things happen this week. Well, let me tell you about New Mexico. I saw my dad. He's holding steady at not a lot of change. It's good to see him.

I'm glad to be there for him. I'm happy to be part of this process as he sort of, he's now all of a sudden listening to my podcast. So I, he used to be on it without knowing it, but now he's sort of, I think, uh, his wife, Rosie has got him, uh, finally figured out, uh, how to, uh, to hear me, but, uh, but I'm glad I'm going out there and showing up and taking him out for lunch and sitting around watching him fall asleep on the couch while we watch a movie. That kind of stuff. You know, regular dad son stuff. You all right, dad? You all right?

Just want to say that if he's listening, I love you. It was good to see you. And I'll be back soon. I'm going to keep coming until you forget who I am. Then you're on your own. Is that a deal? Can we make that deal? I'll be at Largo tonight, 8.30 p.m. here in Los Angeles.

On Saturday, I'll be in San Luis Obispo, California at the Fremont. That's March 5th at 7 o'clock p.m. A few tickets left. I'll be in Santa Barbara, California on Sunday, March 6th at 7.30 p.m. at the Lobero. And then next week, a lot of stuff in the East Coast. New Haven, Connecticut, March 9th at College Street. Music Hall in Troy, New York on March 10th. The Colonial Theater in Laconia, New Hampshire on March 11th.

And Flynn Center in Burlington, Vermont on March 12th. 11th and Flynn Center in Burlington, Vermont on March 12th. Go to WTFpod.com slash tour for all that info and ticket links. Also, I just want to make sure people know that I've got the Moon Tower Festival, Paramount Theater, April 22nd, Austin, Texas. Again, WTFpod.com slash tour for all those dates there's a lot of dates a lot of different places okay all right okay enough of that i have to mark and acknowledge and be grateful for the life i'm living in the face of fascism hatred environmental disaster the slow crumbling of the social fabric. I have to take a minute to sort of enjoy my real life. And I'll tell you, you'll hear it eventually.

But I did another interview with Keith Richards yesterday on Zoom. He's got a reissue of Main Offenders coming up. But we took the opportunity. They were like like do you want to talk to keith again mike of course and i pressed him i pressed him um where he gets his beanies so look forward to me having that answer and also to that coming but it was just a thrill because no i could i talked to him a long time ago and i just completely lost my mind and i thought maybe i've got it together but i don't completely lost my mind. And I thought maybe I've got it together, but I don't. Completely lost my mind again. But I got him all excited. It's fun to get him going.

And also another hero, Keith Richards, since I was like 14, 15. How am I going to keep my shit together, even if I'm on Zoom? But not unlike Keith Richards, you know, David Letterman was the, you know, that was the bar, man. That was it. For talk shows and for being on a talk show, I spent most of my life as a comic wanting to get on Letterman and eventually getting on. And then I eventually had the opportunity to talk to him here at the house, and it was great. but I was at the comedy store the other night in the main room, and it was one of those sets where it was a produced show. It wasn't a regular show. It was a comic produced show. I was filling in for Jeff Ross even. And I don't know.

The audience was okay, but it's always weird with the produced shows because I don't know where they come from. They're not an organic audience. They're all reached through the same avenue, and I don't know. They were fine. They were good, but it was just different. And I was kind of snotty at first. I was kind of like fighting it. But then I ended up pushing through and doing the shit I'm doing right now. I'm doing the shit. I'm doing the standup comedy work. I'm doing the real work. I love doing club work,

especially that club. But anyway, so I get get off stage security guy from the club comes back and he's like he says uh david letterman wants to talk to you and i'm like what david letterman wants to talk to you i'm like what are you talking about is he here yeah he's here and my then i said wait what am i in trouble it was half joking but i'm like did i do something wrong am i in trouble? It was half joking, but I'm like, did I do something wrong? Am I in trouble? Why is he doing here? And I went out and down the back patio, David Letterman was there with a couple of people and he was just there and he just wanted to say hi and tell me that he thought that the stuff I was doing right now was important and somebody's got to be saying it and nobody's really saying it. And he was happy I was saying it. And then and somebody's got to be saying it and nobody's really saying it.

And he was happy I was saying it. And then we kind of had a few laughs and chatted a bit. He told me about a little bit about his time there and having a few memories of the place. But this guy was, you know, my hero. So I talked to two heroes of mine in the last week. One surprise, I was surprised it was a surprise visit. The other one, you know, was planned. I'll tell you what's great.

And I had this moment with Eddie Murphy too right at the beginning. It's great to make Keith Richards laugh and it's great to make Letterman laugh. I mean, you know, we are all familiar

with Letterman's laugh because, you know, I've been listening to it for half my life. But just to be right there with it, see it happening in real time what a fucking treat what a fucking treat what a life i'm living thank you thank you thank you all right so mira sorvino is in this new star series called the shining veil

premieres uh this sund, March 6th. And again, listen to me. This is a content warning that our conversation deals, very frankly, with sexual harassment, abuse, misogyny, and the general mistreatment of human beings. So I want you to know that ahead of time. This is what we're doing. We also have some nice things.

There's nice things. There's nice things. There's fun things. There's some great experiences spoken about, but we're okay. We're people here. This is me talking to Mira Sorvino. It's winter, and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So, no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats.

But meatballs, mozzarella balls, and arancini balls? Yes, we deliver those. Moose? No. But moose head? Yes. Because that's alcohol, and we deliver that too. Along with your favorite restaurant food, groceries, and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age.

Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations,

how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. you know i watched a bit of the new show and it's a fun show it seems like a fun show are you happy very fun yeah shiningville yeah i love Shining Veil. Yeah, I love it. You do? Yeah. I mean, you have to, I mean, in terms of like my character, you have to stick with it for a few episodes to really meet her because she's sort of haunting the edges in the beginning and you don't really see her much.

The slow unfolding of the ghost presence who takes over the writing process. Is that how it works? Kind of. Yeah. Not just the writing, but yeah, she kind of takes over the writing process? Is that how it works? Kind of. Yeah. Not just the writing, but yeah, she kind of takes over. Yeah. And is it fun working with Courtney Cox? Yeah. It's amazing.

She's just a doll and so talented and so humble and fun and beautiful and just the perfect straight man. Like she's so good at playing reality, but making it funny. You you know she doesn't do like a big character or anything i'm more like i create like the big weird characters to be funny she's just funny as the normal person yeah well i mean i guess that's what she's been doing forever she's like it's but that's that's what makes a person a star you know like the old movies like you wanted to see that person again and again. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And Kinnear, too, right? Oh, he's hilarious. He's a good guy. How long have you lived out here? You were in New York, weren't you? I was in New York full-time until 2001. Then I bought my place out here, and then I was bi-coastal until 2014. And then we had to choose a coast because the kids were in school.

We have four kids. And so once you're really in a school year, like you can't maintain two properties on two coasts. Like why? Because you're going to be there for three weeks a year. Like it doesn't make sense. Yeah. But that's crazy. How old is your oldest one?

17. So the pandemic must have been a nightmare i mean well did you get tight did you get closer well we were always close i mean i think uh it was very hard on them i mean but we had each other you know we had like i mean some people who had no one during the pandemic i think fared far worse right actually having a big family made it more bearable even if everybody was getting cabin fever. But really, no one went totally crazy? It's a question of degree.

So like when you were growing up, were you around actors all the time? Actors would be friends with my parents. And, you know, my mother was also an actress. And then she gave it up to be a full time mom, something which I never understood as a kid. But now I understand. If I had the luxury, I could totally see it happening. But you never gave it up. No. Well, I never gave it up.

No, I couldn't. Because economically, I couldn't. Right. God, it must have been a lot. But, you know, there's, but we did have a lot of, we did have a lot of actors that my father worked with. In New York. That we had at the house or, you know, opera singers or. Opera singers.

You know, politicians and like, you know, there was all kinds of culture coming in and out of our dining room. Uh-huh. You know, my parents would throw dinner parties. Oh, wow. They were very good at entertaining. Like, I don't have that skill. No? No. Oh, wow. and obviously with the past two years, there's just been no entertaining, but hopefully we'll open it up again and people will go back to normal to some extent.

I mean. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I think we can take the masks off as of today inside. Wow. So everyone can finally get it. Right.

Well, I just had it. So I'm kind of glad in a way because you spend two years afraid it's going to kill you. Yeah. And then you have it. It's not great, but I didn't die. So I'm very happy about that. It's weird coming on.

It doesn't feel like anything else, does it? Like people are saying it's like a cold. It didn't feel like a cold to me. No, it didn't feel like a cold, no. Well, I'm all vaxxed up, but it felt weird. Like I felt weird. How was your symptoms? Bad?

Well, the first, I don't know. The first few days I had this extreme lower back pain that I thought was my kidneys failing. Wow. Would there be any reason for that? It might also have been because I had just broken my arm. And so I was taking painkillers for my arm because it was like really extreme. And I think it was too much for my body to process. And I think my kidneys were just complaining. As soon as I stopped taking them, it went away. Right. Now it could have just been a weird early COVID symptoms. Sure. I don't know. Yeah. You know, I don't know, but I was, I had like blood work done and I had like a thing, a scan for kidney stones and nothing, nothing came up. No, nothing. So, so it was just a,

you don't know. I don't know. But that maybe it was COVID, but what were the general symptoms? I just felt kind of congested, tired, tightness in my chest a little. I had like fever the whole time. Oh. But low. Yeah. Like never went over 100. Right.

But my usual temperature is like 97 point something. So like for me, a 99.8 is a fever. Right. Or somebody else, they'd be like, oh, you barely have a, you know. Right. Sure. But that lasted for like 11 days. Yeah.

And I felt that kind of that like no one understands in my family when i describe it but i get these little shocks in my joints like a little oh yeah yeah like these little electrical like jolts yeah when i'm sick and that was happening a lot and i was sort of sweating and and i had the i had a cough you did never it never went into anything like you or anything, but I still have this residual cough that it's like- You do? Oh, really?

Yeah. But it's, I mean, I'm COVID free. I've been tested several times. I know. Yeah, it took me like 12 days. It was like 12 days. And it was driving me nuts. Yeah.

Because you start comparing yourself to other people. Yeah. How come that person only had three days? Yeah. We're going, and just like you start to feel even. There was that weird feeling of like, I failed. i was winning for two years right yeah i i started to think that i was naturally immune like i was like everyone around me i'm not getting it like i was on the sets where like eight out of the ten of us would get it i would get it like it's just like how did how do i not

have it i must be amazing so all right so you So you grew up in this salon of talent and excitement. How many kids in your family? I was the oldest of three. I have a brother and a sister, Michael Sorvino and Amanda Sorvino. He's an actor too? Michael's an actor, yeah. And now, were you inspired to be in show business? Yes.

I mean, although I came to it through doing like my own plays in school like that's how i fell in love with it by writing plays no i actually wrote plays when i was really little actually when i was like six i did a play actually with the actress hope davis who lived across the street from me david are you guys still friends uh we haven't seen each other in a long time and we're friendly when we see each other but But I mean, we moved away from that street when I was like 10. Where was that? In New York? In Tenafly, New Jersey.

I like New Jersey. It's beautiful. You appreciate it once you've left it. Yeah. At the time, I was like, oh, I can't wait to move to the city. Or, you know, I can't imagine living here as an adult. And now I'm like, oh, it was so nice. And it would be wonderful for the kids.

Right now. Yeah, everything changes. Yeah. So changes. Yeah. So what was the amazing play that you, starring you and Hope Davis? It was called The Dutch Doll. Oh. I was a girl and I had a doll. She was the doll.

Yeah. And the doll was sick and I had to go to the doll doctor. Oh, exciting. And I was really worried about it. Yes. And we performed it for the whole neighborhood in our backyard. Did the doll live? The doll lived.

Yes. Oh, happy ending. Yeah. Oh, happy ending. Oh, thank God. Yeah. So, but did you, were you doing a lot of acting in high school and stuff? Yeah, I was. I mean, not professionally. I just acted in all the plays at school.

And then at 16 and a half, a talent scout came to my high school looking for girls who could horseback ride and act. And I happened to have a horse and compete in like hunter jumper shows oh you did and i was in all the plays and so my school recommended me and like six other girls apparently there were a lot of us um and it was it was basically like a reboot of national velvet called sylvester and they were doing this nationwide like search ultimately i had like three callbacks and a screen test, but then they gave it to Melissa Gilbert. But that started my career because we had a friend of the family who was a child manager. And she heard about me because of having clients, I guess, in the mix. And she said,

you know, it's really encouraging that Mira got that far. If you want, I could represent her. Yeah. And so she ended up being my manager for like a decade. Really? Yeah. It's so weird with acting because like, you know, you get into it by being rejected. Yeah, yeah. It's the fucking worst.

I mean, I can't like I could like I've always done comedy and I've and I've acted now a bit. But this what actors go through to the rejection is insane. Yeah. Yeah. You get rich. Well, it's sort of like baseball, though. It's sort of like, you know, how your batting average, even if you're an amazing hitter, you're going to strike out like 70 percent of the time. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So you were able to contextualize that, like to compartmentalize that much just as a young person like that. Like, it's not really on you that they don't want you i think well my father used to say he did not want us to be actors because it was so personal and because compared to another job where when they reject you it's like your resume isn't strong enough or they want somebody with a skill of that or whatever but when you're

an actor they're rejecting you they don't want you right and so he would he just really wanted us to become anything but actors um but then when i was 23 and i was out of college and i was taking this course at the international center for photography in new york and we had to do like we had to shoot a roll of film every day and write in a journal and try and like sort of keep our creative muse awakened. And as I would journal, I realized, oh, my art form right now to say whatever it is I have inside me is acting. Like I really need to be an actor. You just felt that? Yeah, it was very, it was like this calling that came to me while I was in this.

I mean, I had always been acting. I never stopped, but I was doing a lot of other things too. I was interning at Tribeca Productions and then I got hired by them as a reader. And I thought maybe I wanted to be a director. And I thought maybe I wanted to be a photographer. And what did you study in school, though? East Asian Languages and Civilizations. What was that about?

It was Chinese studies, basically. But Tiananmen Square happened during my senior year. Were you there? No. I had just come back from china after having lived there for eight months and what was the compulsion though like you know what what made you study that what was the fascination originally uh i i think freshman year i took this incredible course by kc jong this um famous archaeologist on politics art and mythology in bronze age china

and i loved it so much and they were like you know there's this concentration you can study anything you want as long as it pertains to East Asia. Like you could study the politics of Vietnam more, Japanese like Shinto architecture, you know, Tom Coetree, anything you wanted, as long as it pertained to East Asia. And so I ended up writing my thesis about racial conflict, but within a Chinese context.

And it was basically like a sociology anthro kind of thesis even though i'd been like humanities like literature history the whole time harvard yeah so it was like this multidisciplinary concentration at a time that there weren't many other concentrations where you could study more than one or two things like you could do history and lit which would allow you to do history and lit of your countries that you spoke the language of. Yeah. But you couldn't take like art from the same period and have it count.

Whereas anything went under this EALC canopy. And I kind of felt like I'd been Chinese in another life. Like I was very good friends and still am. Yeah. With a woman named Angela Wong, who's now a doctor. And we're still really close. Yeah. And she used to take me with her family to Chinatown when I was a kid and Peking Opera and playing Mahjong with her grandma.

And for some reason, I really connected with the traditional culture. And it was funny because I went to China and was living there and studying there. I was like, where's the traditional culture? Like communism had kind of changed it so much. But then like when you really got into people's homes, that same element was still there. And they were actually very much like Italians. It was kind of funny, but like Chinese people are super warm and family oriented and touchy feely. And food is love and, you know, great boisterous belly laughs.

And I felt very, very much at home once I became close friends with Chinese people over there. And I felt very, very much at home once I became close friends with Chinese people over there. I think it's a language barrier that makes us unaware of their emotional nature. You know what I mean? I think that for a lot of regular white people that there's like it's just this it's hard for some reason for us to understand. be a conflation between like japanese culture and chinese culture because the japanese have much more ceremony and like hierarchy in their you know language even yeah there's grammar of like you're inferior you're superior this and that really yeah um whereas chinese is uh i mean there's definitely you know saving face and being polite and everything but but there's a ton of warmth in it it's very warm very very warm people and you spoke it yeah yeah by the time i i left there

i was pretty fluent i was like dreaming in it and i had rented a room from a chinese woman for my second half of the time i stayed there and um i wrote like i edited chinese language magazines and i sang jazz with chinese european bands i had like fake books so everybody wanted to be like have me in their band so they could get my music wow my dad would send me like fake books of all like the jazz standards and then i was singing like satin doll and one for my baby and one for the road chinese no i was singing i sang like autumn leaves in french the rest of it i sang in english but But the funny thing is, actually, in Shining Veil, they let me sing One for My Baby and One for the Road in the show. And that was my big hit song in China.

In French, down the show? Yeah, not in French, no. Autumn Leaves was in French, but One for My Baby, One for the Road, the Frank Sinatra, Ella Fitzgerald kind of stuff. Do you love to sing? I do, I do. I mean, I don't have a big voice, but I do love to sing. Do you ever think of doing like a cabaret act? You know, I was in a show at Don't Tell Mamas when I was in New York.

And I always plan to like do singer-songwriter stuff. And I've written a couple of songs. And then just life gets in the way and I don't do it. And like, you know, like I have a guitar and then the guitar cracked or then i broke my arm or you know like but i always have these ideas yeah and it's something that when i have a little bit more time but in the context of this you know i happen to tell jeff astroff you know you know i sing a little and you know there's this song and he was like okay well why don't you record it yeah it was like what so then i got to record it and then um then i told him that i danced and then he created this incredible opening for i think it's episode

eight or nine in shining veil in shining veil where i get to do an homage to like it's it's short but to like um you know fred astaire dancing with the coat rack or gene kelly with the mop like i do this whole sort of little 50s style balletic dance around the house with various household implements like a mop and a feather duster. And it was the time of my life. Like I was so happy. I can't even tell you how happy I was. It was like I had stepped into an old movie.

Like I was so happy. Really? Did they bring a choreographer in? Yeah. Oh, that's exciting. Yeah. And I had taken like eight years of ballet as a kid, you know, so I had some technique. It's still in there?

Yeah. Yeah, it's still in there. It doesn't go away? No. No, especially. And as an adult, like sometimes I study with Romy Rappaport, who's just an amazing teacher. She used to be part of the New York City Ballet. And her sister Zipporah also sometimes used to teach me.

So I kept up the ballet a little bit as an adult. Oh, really? But so much fun. Yeah. That's nice to have that. And you Oh, really? So much fun. Yeah. That's nice to have that. And you play guitar too? Yeah, but not well. I play, it's like, it's a hobby, you know, it's a great thing to have one of those. Yeah. Like an outlet. Yes. That you're happy about. So how about the Mandarin? Did that stick? You know, if you drop me in the middle of China

within a week, I'd probably be speaking. You could get out? I'd probably be speaking fluently again. But right now, like, I'll be speaking a sentence and then in the middle I'll forget how to say, like, magazine. Right, right. Or I'll forget, you know, how to, like. Sure. Like, but I can kind of BS my way along for a little while. But, like, my reading and writing has gone to absolute hell. Like, I, you know, because it's all memorization.

Yeah. It requires maintenance, you know. So the characters I've really lost. But it was a while ago. I mean, like I graduated in, you know, 89, 90. Like I was class of 89, but I took a semester off to stay in China longer. How long were you there total? Eight months.

Oh, wow. Yeah. And it was an amazing experience. What were you saying about Tiananmen? So that happened right after I left. Yeah. were you saying about Tiananmen? So that happened right after I left. And once that happened, it really changed everything for those of us who had been working in the China field, because we couldn't really go back because we would endanger our Chinese friends by associating

with them once that happened. Yeah. And therefore we'd just be going over and being like expats together with expats in China. Like why? Why? Like the whole point, if you're going to be in China is to be with Chinese people and live within the culture. And that became very dangerous for Chinese people to have foreign friends at that point. So it was like, well, also, I think all of us wanted to kind of just show our disapproval of what had happened and not be like, oh, it's business as usual. So if that hadn't happened, I might not be an actor today. I mean, maybe I would, but it like pointed me back into the world of like entertainment and going back to New York and creativity in that way. Yeah.

Whereas I was kind of more in this academic track and I was maybe going to go teach English again in China when I graduated, maybe in a different province and learn a different dialect. And although while I was in China, I did sing and then I became friends with one of Bertolucci's like assistant directors on The Last Emperor. And then she had like a Chinese reverse Beatles story where. Was that shooting there when you there wasn't shooting there when you were there, was it? I think it had just shot there. Okay. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. And so she wanted me to play a sort of American like adjunct, like a sort of parallel to like Yoko Ono, even though Yoko Ono is Japanese, with the Chinese Beatles. Yeah. And I'd be the American girlfriend. So strangely, like acting was still kind of finding me, but I wasn't looking for it, you know? Yeah.

But if I had, you know, cause my parents got divorced while I was in China and that's one of the reasons I stayed an extra semester cause I wasn't ready to go back to school cause it was too hard for me to be in classes with like, I was very depressed. Yeah. So I just took time off and lived and worked in China for that second semester. And, and I had, you know, I, I kind of righted myself on the other side of the world. Like I made myself functional and happy again. You processed the grief and the loss. Without having to deal with the drama, I guess, huh? Well.

I mean, you weren't in it. Right, I wasn't in it, sure. That's good. Yeah, but you know, it had its costs. Like they sold the house and packed up my room without me ever seeing it again you know what i mean like just everything was gone the whole your whole life room yeah well no from i guess from when we moved from the the place where we lived near hope davis to like because i think i was we left no maybe we moved when i was eight actually yeah so eight to seventeen

was in that house and then no that's but you But, you know, this is divorce, you know. Did you get the boxes? Did you get the stuff? Some of them. Some of them never. No. Oh, so there was loss. Yeah.

Yeah. Ugh. Someone decided it was garbage. Right. Like, you know, like scrapbooks or things like that. I'm sorry. It's okay. It's just, you know.

Life. Yeah. Everybody has one. Yeah. And it doesn't, you know, it's not easy. Life is not easy. It's much harder than I thought, actually. It is, right?

Yeah. It's such a, like, you know, as you get older, too, like I'm 58, it's just sort of like, is this the big payoff? I mean, what? Because, like, when you finally get a handle on shit, you're almost done, it seems. Right? Maybe that's the point. You know, you're almost done, it seems. Right? Maybe that's the point. It's a lesson that it takes this long time to learn.

And then it's sort of like, nothing you can do about it. Enjoy your wisdom. Yeah. Yeah. So when you have the epiphany at the photography school and the program. So then I went to my dad and was like, Dad, I know I need to be an actress. It's very clear to me. It's the only thing I want to do.

And then he said, well, then I give you my blessing. And that's when I started. And then I kind of turned around from. So he always talks like the mob boss in Goodfellas? Like a more cultured version. Okay. Like a more Shakespearean version. Okay.

There's nothing about him that's thuggish, but he is imposing. What was that movie that he did when he played the heroin addicted lounge singer? Oh, that was good. The Cooler. Yeah, The Cooler. It was Alec Baldwin. It was amazing. Yeah.

It was rough. It was rough. That's a sad, it's hard to watch. Yeah. I was thinking about the other day. Seeing him like a child, like banging the table, needing his fix. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, my dad, wow.

Yeah, had you never seen him like that? No, no. But he got there, huh? Yeah. Yeah. Now he can do anything. Yeah. So what, so you tell him, gives you the blessing.

And then I just started really focusing because I'd been, I'd been in acting class. Yeah. I'd been auditioning for things, but I was also doing a little modeling, a little waitressing, you know, like all kinds of stuff. And as soon as I was like, no, this is the only thing I want to do. And I kind of took this chance and dropped everything else

and just started really focusing on my classes and my auditions. I started booking things within like a month. What classes? Wynn Handman. Oh, yeah. Yeah, he was my teacher. I went to Bill Esper during the summer

while I was in college. But his is a two-year course. And honestly, my dad had already taught me most of what he was going to teach me because my dad was a graduate of Bill and Meisner. The original Meisner bunch. Yeah, Sandy Meisner. Yeah. He got a scholarship to that school. So your dad would actually, like, lay stuff on you?

Like, you know, like, this is the deal? Oh, he would teach me. Like, any time I had a role to prepare for in high school, he would work with me for hours. Really? And then he would come to me after a performance and give me like two hours of notes. And yes, what I appreciated to be like the other parents would be like, honey, that was wonderful. He would say, honey, that was terrific. I just have two notes.

And they'd sit you down and then you'd get a two hour lecture about what you hadn't done right. But it was from those sessions that I learned. You know, he would be like, every time you go like, and then say your line, you're letting out your first instinct. You're falsifying whatever you're going to do. You're killing your first instinct. Never take, never exhale before speaking. Just speak the line. Just let it come out.

Wow. Stick with the other fellow. You'll never be wrong. You might be boring, but you'll never be untruthful. You know, like everything, you know, there was always these notes that would really were the fundamentals of acting. But when I was eight, he taught me how to emotionally prepare because I had to cry. And he had me sit in the middle of the stairway and think of something very sad until there was tears streaming down my face

and then come down and play the scene. Really? Yeah, yeah. So I had this, I don't know that I could teach my kids the same way he did because I don't know if I'd have the emotional fortitude to let them upset themselves

at that young of an age because for him, it's the art form and it is the art form but i think it changed me i think it made me burn these neural pathways to sadness that i would not have had had i not been an actress like i am such a sad person sometimes and it's because i need to access it all the time for my work like all of my characters cry for some reason whatever i get cast in they always cry. Even if it's a big fat comedy like Romeo and Michelle, she cries like four or five times in the show.

Maybe they know you're good at it. I don't know, but it's sort of, I don't know. I think I have this weird sweet spot between like zany and vulnerable for the comedy stuff. And the vulnerable side, there's always a crying scene. And so I had to get to the point point and my father also always used to say the day i use the tears is the day i walk out of the business and so it was anathema the idea that i would ever ever use glycerin tears or camphor to make yourself tear up because a lot of actors do that sure you know they'll like right

before they go and they'll blow it in their eyes. Their eyes will kind of glass up, and then right in the middle of the scene, the tear will roll down perfectly down their straight. I cannot do that. I'll have to kill myself. That's right. Yeah. It's been planted in you.

Yes. So I just have to sit there and destroy myself emotionally and bring myself to the worst day of my life, and then I'm sobbing, and I have to do it for hours and hours and take after take and that's the legacy of Paul Servino's eight-year-old daughter learning to cry in the middle of the stairs. But that's interesting though that you think that you actually carve some sad paths. Oh, absolutely. Because of your ability to access it and then when you're not accessing it, you still got the thing. Yeah. Huh. I mean, I think I

already am sort of like an empath or like somebody who feels things a little deeper than your average Joe. But it definitely made those sensitivities heightened. It's like I have some of those tendencies where, you know, people can just like it. Well, I'm projecting now. But like the empath thing or the sensitivity, it's hard to maintain boundaries. I'm projecting now, but like the empath thing or the sensitivity, it's hard to maintain boundaries and people are, you know, take it, you know, they definitely see you as an emotional mark sometimes, right? Yeah.

I don't know. I don't, I don't know. I think that sometimes I would hide it, but I always feel it. I don't know. Can we hide it? I don't know. Like, cause I'm doing standup up there lately with the world the way it is. And like, I'll stop in the middle of my act and go like, these jokes are starting to make me cry.

Yeah. Yeah. Because things get heavy, you know? Yeah. Things are heavy now. And it's funny because I've been watching all the Academy films because I have to vote. Good for you for being diligent. They're so damned.

Well, it was great that I had that to do during COVID. Yeah. Because I basically couldn't get out of my bed. i was just like all right i'm gonna watch some documentaries now oh yeah you know like do it all yeah do it all watch the foreign films everything and but i was really struck by how negative most of the films were i was so surprised about the tone the darkness of so much of the most fetid stuff out there because but i think it's it it's appropriate for what we've been living sure you know it's just the mindset what struck you though like what do you mean well i just like i was like wow these films are so negative without a spot negative or dark negative and dark like you watch drive my car yes and i actually really like drive

my car right yeah i it took you know it took some getting into because the pace is slow but that's like dark but it's like it's no but that's not as dark yeah that's not what i mean that was not negative that one has a life affirmingness at the end or a sort of a sort of this is what life is and we have to make peace with it right and like doing the checkoff youoff, you know, and with the sign language. Oh, yeah. And then we will rest. Then we will look back on how we suffered.

And that's like our fate. Like we all want what we can't have. We want to change the reality and we can't. Yeah. Like we just can't undo what is real. Yes. And it's so heartbreaking though. Like life, that's why life is so hard

because, you know, I think we're spoon fed with these happy ending. You know, if there's a will, there's a way you can dream it, you can do it. And then certain things cannot change no matter what. And certain things befall you, which are out of the sky that are so hard that you never could have imagined them in a million years. And there's nothing you can do about them you are you are disempowered you don't have agency sometimes and that goes against our culture which always tells us that we can do something about everything but there's not always something you can do about loss death you know betrayal like that change you can't power structures yeah yeah you know the the world turning on its head and people going crazy and becoming racist again. And maybe they always were. We just didn't know it. Yeah. There's like something happened on stage last night where I just like,

because I was like, I just said, there's nothing, there's nothing we can do. It's just like, it's okay, folks. Just cry.

That's so right. And then we can cry. Yeah, I guess so. Cry or hug or something. Yeah. Yeah. Just, yeah.

So this has been like a weird life lesson past few years. Yeah. Wow. I just didn't see it coming. I feel like we're about to drift into sadness. Okay. All right. Yeah.

We're egging each other on. I know. I know. We're just waiting for each other to cry. But you can do it on purpose, apparently. Mine, I can't control that well. So it looked like when I was looking at some of the movies that you did early on, you were part of that New York crew of actors and stuff and people in that time. I was definitely in New York and making all the movies there.

Imperioli and those guys. And what's that guy, Winnick? Is that that guy's name? Gary Winnick. He directed Sweet Nothing. Yeah. He's dead. I know. He directed Sweet Nothing. Yeah. He's dead. I know.

He had brain cancer. But he had a little, wasn't there a casting operation running out of his office as well? I mean, I remember being at his office for some reason. Maybe I'm thinking of somewhere else. He may have. I mean, I think he was the son of somebody who had a lot of money. Oh, okay. And there may have been a family element to that.

When you started working there, it seemed like a pretty vital, like your generation anyways, I'm putting you in that. Did you feel that? Oh yeah, no, and I was working over at Tribeca Productions, Jane Rosenthal and De Niro, like reading scripts and, you know, that was... So you saw Robert around a lot? Uh-huh, yeah, and my dad obviously was friends with him. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

He's a good guy, right? Yeah, and he gave me one of my first jobs in the business. Oh yeah? You know, as? Yeah. And he gave me one of my first jobs in the business. Oh, yeah? As a reader. Right. At first I interned and then I got hired. So that was awesome. Very hard job to read scripts.

You have to- And make notes? Read them. And then you've got to boil down their plot to like three quarters of a page. And then you have to have a paragraph of like suggest, consider, or decline. And me being a non-decisive person who doesn't like to destroy people's futures i was always like well it's like a b plus script that could be an a minus if they just did this and that if they just developed this or the character's voices were a little different and they were like mira yeah you know one day uh

because i had i had suggested one script and said consider on two others out of like a whole season of scripts that I was reading and Jane Rosenthal

called me into her office and she was like Mira in order for you to say consider this script needs to be worth millions of dollars

and two years of my time and I was like oh okay got it got it did not yeah

okay yeah because i always felt bad for the writers like i just wanted to give them their shot was not the job for you no anything where i have to choose anything is not my job like i can't choose between anything my kids are always trying to make me choose my favorite of something and i can never choose even my daughter when she sends me pictures to post on her Instagram choose your favorites I don't know they're all cute you know mom

yeah yeah yeah I just can't yeah that's weird I mean I experience some of that too it's frustrating yeah I wish I were

more decisive must be so nice to be decisive I find that in a pinch like if I'm up against the wall I can make a pretty confident decision

if there's a panic I can do it so what I try to do is get myself into as much panic as possible. Just live on the edge all the time. Exactly. Because then everything feels urgent enough to decide immediately. So as it evolves, though, well, obviously the big break is the Woody Allen movie, right? Yes.

Although the first big break was, I mean, maybe with Stillman's Barcelona. Oh, that's a great movie. That guy's an interesting guy. He interesting guy he is yeah i mean i don't know what happened to him he's still working he just takes long periods time between projects because there was a couple of those movies that he did disco but yeah there was a tone to those movies that were very specific very specific he it was it was a wood stillman movie. Yes, Wood Stillman, yeah. And so I got cast in that, and then I got cast by Robert Redford in Quiz Show, and that was a huge deal for me as a young actor.

So how was it working with those directors? I mean, like, you know, you did those, like, amongst friends. Okay, so that was like an indie movie. But then you're in the big time. So, like, working with Stillman, like, what, what, because he's like a real tonal guy.

How'd that work? Well, I'm a lot freer than he is. Yeah. And so I think we, you know, at the time, perhaps like butted heads a little bit about my more slightly improvisational style and his saying, you missed a comma. Right, right, right. But ultimately, I think he was very happy with what I did. Yeah. And we have a lot of mutual respect and fondness for each other. You know, so I would work with him again.

I think it would be very interesting to revisit his world now. Yeah. Like, the guy I was thinking of is Christopher, what's, how do you say his last name? Chris Eichmann. Eichmann, yeah. Yeah. He's an intense guy. He is.

And with that biting humor. Yeah. Very biting. And then there's Taylor Nichols, you know. But that was a super experience getting to live in Barcelona and play a Catalan girl. And it was super fascinating.

So I went from that and then I got the Woody Allen movie. But the quiz show, how was working with Redford? Oh, amazing but terrifying because he used to do like 20 takes per angle. And I was coming from indie world where we were working with short ends

in like the last bits of cans of film where we were working with short ends in like the last bits of cans of film while we were still using right right and you never had time for more than five takes ever and so when we were getting up on take 18 19 20 i was like oh i'm screwing up oh they're gonna recast i can see the casting director over there they're looking at me they're gonna call the other girl and say we made a mistake can you be here tomorrow like that's how i felt yeah and then um i can't came home from work and i was so despondent and my dad's like what's wrong well like after the first day yeah and i was like oh dad i think they're gonna fire me like they did so many takes and i felt like he was not getting what he wanted and yeah and i just felt like and

he said well look you go in there and you take your best swing at it and just say blanket. Yeah. Just say the F word. Yeah. You know, what's the worst that could happen? Yeah. You could get fired. Yeah.

Everybody gets fired at some point in their career. But if you don't take a big artistic leap. Yeah. Like you take a chance on something you feel really strong about. You'll never do something about. You'll never do something interesting. You'll never fly. You might fall on your face, but you'll never fly if you don't take that big leap of courage. Sure. And that was like the best advice ever. And like just to have the courage of your convictions and really go for it. Yeah. And

what's the worst that could happen? So and I didn't get fired and it all worked out fine. You know, he did tell me that I had to stop like using my hand so much because she was jewish not italian and and you know so so he said try and catch your hand because i i would be talking like this and he said catch your fingers catch him catch it well you were to turo's wife yes and he said catch your fingers so i did like you'll see i'm like you're catching your fingers instead So I did. You'll see. I'm like that. You're catching your fingers. Instead of like. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. All right. So then Woody casts you.

Did you have to audition for that? You did. And the first audition, I was told that I was, it was good, but I was too far away from the character. And my agents were like, well, wait, you know, because like they only handed us the sides like two minutes before the audition. We knew nothing about the character except that she was unfettered and had no idea. I had to ask in the room if she was like a call girl. I did not even know, you know?

Right. So, uh, so I hadn't come in with that as the character, you know, I played it for real, but it, and then, then my agents were like,

wait, no, you don't understand. She's a real chameleon. You got to see her as this Catalan girl in the Whit Stillman movie. And then I guess Woody requested to screen a print of Barcelona. Oh, really? And then he said, wait a second.

This girl has nothing to do with the girl I met last year for Don't Drink the Water. This is like not the same person. Don't Drink the Water? Yeah. They did a revival for Don't Drink the Water. This is like not the same person. Don't Drink the Water? Yeah. You auditioned for Don't? Yeah. They did a revival of Don't Drink the Water?

Uh-huh. I did that in college. I played the old man. Yeah. And so he's like, have her come in again. So I went in, in England, while I was working on The Buccaneers, which was an Edith Wharton miniseries for the BBC, where I was playing another half-Brazilian heiress, I only used to get characters with vowels

at the end of their name. At the beginning of my career, I could only play ethnic people. I could never play- Really? Never play just nondescript, non-specifically ethnic people. Why is that? You don't look particular. It's because I dyed my hair blonde that I don't look it.

Oh, really? It's one of the reasons I stay blonde it's weird but like I was not castable like people people would say weird things like she's too urban I was like urban I grew up in like suburban New Jersey I went to Harvard like what I'm not urban I'm just Italian half Italian my mother's English Scottish Welsh yeah you know German right yeah but because of my exotic name, Mira Sorvino. Okay. Because I didn't change it. I almost changed it to my mom.

Always looking to box people in, too. Yeah, at that point, especially. Now, I can't play half the roles that I played then because they would be seen as taking them away from somebody who was Latina. Interesting, yeah. so I wouldn't have been able to play at least three or four of the roles that I played early on because I was you know ethnically not authentic although maybe I still could have played Catalan

because she's European you know Spanish and Italian I mean you saw the big deal about Javier Bardem even yeah it's a little tricky and specific now there was a whole controversy that he's Spanish Spanish and is playing cuban yeah like but i mean i don't know that's right for the ricardos right yeah so okay but that was

the kind of thing that early in my career i couldn't play a girl who wasn't either italian spanish portuguese puerto rican like i couldn't play jo Joe Schmo girl from middle of America. Right. All that changed when I colored my hair blonde and then I could play anything. And that was, that was. Well, I did it for Mighty Aphrodite because the character should, should be blonde because she was this sort of, you know, ditzy character, but like a bad blonde, like not even a well done dye job. It was a great performance.

Did you feel good about the performance? I did. I did. I was very nervous about it the whole time because that was one of those ones where I made that huge leap of faith in terms of a big, weird artistic choice with that voice. Like it was a very strange choice. Yeah. And I was even questioned on it like several weeks in, like five weeks in, I think.

By who? Woody? Woody. He was like, did you ever think about doing a different voice? And I said, what? And he said, well, you know, like Diane Weiss, she changed, she played around with a few different voices on Bullets. And, you know, after doing one for a while, we switched to another one. That was the one we ended up doing. And then we, you know, we, we shot everything. And I was like, but we've already shot for like five weeks. And he said, oh, I've got it built into my budget that I can do the entire movie over. I can reshoot the entire movie. I have that in my budget.

I was like, oh, okay. And then people had been fired. And it's on you, the non-decider. People had been fired already several times. From that movie? Yes. One character had been recast like three times. And one of them was played by somebody I really respected and she got fired. But then like, so I said, so do you want me to change it because I will I just want you to know that if I change the voice she'll be a different character but I can do that whatever

you want me to do and he was like huh I thought it was more like a put-on thing like rich little like you know impressions and I was like oh no I'll stand by that this person talks this way if i do a different voice she'll be a different person but i'm happy to do that do you want me to do it and he said no i was just thinking out loud and i was like okay maybe don't tell me next time because you just put the fear of god into me um keep it in your head next time yeah you know and it's so hard to talk about it now because like i now have a very different opinion of woody than i did then and i blame myself for not investigating further into what happened with dylan um and was that was that information out there then well there was the whole custody battle and there it was in the press it was pre-mighty

aphrodite but everyone you know the way that the press had kind of skewed it was that this was... Vindictive. Possibly drummed up as a reason to punish him for leaving her for Sunyi. Right. And, I mean, look, just the fact that he was with Sunyi should have been enough. Yeah. It should have been enough for everybody to be like, hmm, daughter what? You know?

Yeah. should have been enough for everybody to be like, hmm, daughter, what? But I have become since friends with Dylan and she's an amazing person and I have no doubt in my mind that she's telling the truth. So it really kind of in a certain way ruins Mighty Aphrodite for me, ruins my Oscar performance, ruins that start of my career because I treasured it for years. And then it's like, I should have denounced him and I should have known it then. I didn't know it then, but I didn't look deep enough to actually educate myself to really make a real educated opinion at the time. It's not an excuse. I should have. And so I wrote a public apology letter to Dylan Farrow denouncing Woody and saying, you know, if we have to kill all the old gods, so be it, you know, like just because he was as brilliant as he was just because I grew up reading

his books and performing his plays in my high school and just idolizing him doesn't mean he's not a terrible person who hurt his daughter, who hurt a child. And there is no forgiveness for that. So, but it really taints it. And it's so crazy that so much of my early career is tainted by that man and by Harvey Weinstein. Like just. Yeah. Just really, it's sort of breathtaking. Those two, it's the same movie, right?

But I did four movies with Harvey, but yes, but that was the movie on which Harvey started paying attention to me and making predatory moves on me. It was during the press for Mighty Aphrodite. I'd already made two other movies with him. Made nothing. Nothing, no. But he didn't really take notice of me on the others. Which movies?

Beautiful Girls and Smoke. It's a big cast. He probably had other focuses. Or Blue in the Face. Blue in the Face, yeah. And then later I did Mimic with his brother, which is a whole other story. Really? But you worked with Del Toro.

Right. That must have been good. Yeah, that was amazing. But they fired Guillermo in the middle of it, and I got him rehired. Really? Yes, because they hadn't consulted with me and my agents and my lawyers. Who the hell else was going to direct that movie? Ole Bornedal from Within.

A Swedish producer who was on it was going to take over, which is actually against the Director's Guild rules. So, like, I asked Guillermo, do you want to keep doing this? And he said, yes. And I said, okay, well, then we're going to fight it. So my lawyers and my agents came in and they were like, look, you didn't follow the contract. You were supposed to give Mira a list of 12 other directors, give her 24 hours to go over the list if you were going to do it. And then Harvey said to Guillermo, come down and recut the assembled cut. Yeah.

We'll give you 11 hours. So he came and, you know, because an editor had been putting it together and they weren't happy with what they were getting. And he was over, over budget or over time or whatever. He went, flew to New York, recut it. And Harvey said to Bob, Bob, this is fantastic. I don't know what your problem is. He's back on. So Guillermo has told me that if I had not done that, he would not have a career.

Oh, wow. Because being fired from your first big movie is is a huge thing that was his first big movie so oh that's good um but but then you got your career screwed up yes but my career was screwed up because Harvey wanted to sleep with me and I wouldn't um and so you know that's uh but it's like it's so terrible because you know you can see where you know after the Oscar you did uh you know a few big movies and they were good and you know you can see where you know after the oscar you did uh you know a few big movies and they were good and you know you didn't lose any money or anything and everyone you were doing your job and it was great and then all of a sudden just boom just dropped off exile dropped off the face of the earth yes couldn't did not work in a studio movie for 20

years 20 years from 30 to 50 and that's really really, or 32 to 52. I don't know. But initially you didn't know you were being exiled or blackballed. No, it just was bad luck or just not going my way. Just each time, oh, I came down to the last few, but no, no, they want to go a different way or they don't think you're right. That's what they told you? Sure. Yeah. I mean, I would go up for a bunch of things. I'd audition for a bunch of things all the time. Yeah. I mean, I would go up for a bunch of things. I'd audition for a bunch of things all the time.

And it's also weird, you know, not weird, but terrible. But like outside of, you know, finding out, which you eventually did. Yes. Way, way, way later. But even like, even if like, let's say that, you know, the excuse was she's difficult. That was the code, right? That was the code. Yeah. But that doesn't. Of course, though, I had made three movies with him and was never difficult. You see? Yeah. And then as soon as I rejected him sexually, all of a sudden I was difficult.

Yeah. You know, so, right? No one said I was difficult. Woody didn't say I was difficult. Spike Lee didn't say I was difficult. But all of a sudden, he told the Lord of the Rings people that I was difficult. They were going to cast me. Was he producing that?

He was initially. people that I was difficult, they were going to cast me. Was he producing that? He was initially. And then they moved on to New Line, but the well had already been poisoned. And Peter Jackson was like, oh, Harvey said she's difficult, so I'm not going to cast her, even though he had moved over to a different team. And he wrote me a huge apology letter after it came out, the whole Me Too stuff. Peter Jackson and his wife wrote me this gigantic, beautiful apology letter about how they had

been all set to cast me. And they did not do their due diligence and they realized that the only source they had this information from was harvey and they are profoundly sorry and that they should have cast me and that they would do whatever they could to help me if i needed it it's so fucking sad it was and then the next day um terry zweigoff called me and made the same call about bad santa said that like he was considering casting me and then they would hang up on him when he brought up my name. And those are just two that have admitted it. But that bad reputation thing, it's so pervasive. Yeah, because it's a relatively small business.

Right. And if Harvey's out there telling everybody, don't work with Mira Servino, she's really difficult. I went on to a blacklist. There was a blacklist that I was on for years and years and years and years in the studio system. All I could do was indies. I did indies and I did television. And I wasn't willing, and that could be seen as my fault, but I wasn't willing to leave my children for like a full time network, you know, procedural. Yeah.

That would make me away from them all the time when they were really little. Yeah. So I could have had more success on TV than I did had I been willing to take those jobs that would have meant me completely sacrificing my motherhood. But I would have made a lot of money. It's like a double whammy. You were getting, you know, slandered and maligned and put on a blacklist. And also, even if you were difficult, that doesn't stop people from giving men parts. Right.

But I wasn't difficult. No, I know. But then on top of that, you had a family, which is another weird strike against women in this business. Right. Well, I also lost several parts over the years from being pregnant. As soon as they found out you were pregnant, they took the offer away because they just, oh, well, it just doesn't work for us. You know, romantically, the characters have to be sexual and you'll be like

eight months at that point. That's just not going to work. But it's a thing where you can't tell people that you're pregnant before you get the job. Yeah. Because they're not supposed to be able to fire you after the fact. But if they know beforehand, they just will find a reason not to hire you because insurance wise, it's hard for them to. Right. But, you know, as actors, obviously it's a visual medium. So if you get the second half of the pregnancy, you're, I mean, I've made several projects pregnant.

It just, it was in the first trimester. Right. It's fine. Look, I'm not here to complain like i like i just uh you know as we've said life is hard i just didn't i just didn't know this in a certain way not knowing it was happening is better like i i just ended up making peace with the fact i guess it just wasn't meant to be that i was going to continue at that high level career that i had in the beginning it just wasn't meant to be. Not your nightcare kind of thing.

But that was what you said to yourself then. Yes. And I was so happy with my family and I have my activism that I do with the United Nations and for human trafficking. And so I cobbled together a really meaningful life for myself that I loved and I still got to act. It just wasn't at that high visibility level. act it just wasn't at that high visibility level when i found out that harvey had done that yeah that put me into a tailspin because everything i had told myself for 17 years yeah was oh wow

it wasn't just fate it wasn't just it wasn't my night kid there was an active malevolent hand blocking my career completely thwarting my ability to live out my dreams and to engage my talent because i do have my own unique talent i'm sort of a strange actor i think like i i have interesting characters that i come up with and i love doing it and i think i can be moving and i can can be funny and i have my own gifts to give the world. And he took that ability to give that away. And that is so, like when people think of sexual harassment as not being that big of a deal,

it is literally life shattering. Like to take 20 years of my life in my given career when I was an Oscar winner, man. I had a Golden Globe. I had Emmy nominations. I had other Golden Globe nominations. All of a sudden, just gone off the landscape. Because of that monster.

Because of a bad man that I would not sleep with. And he tried three different times. And the third time was right before the Lord of the Rings thing. So, you know, I just, I just, that's something that people really need to understand. That harassment is not a small thing. An abuse of power. It took away my livelihood, my ability to feed my kids, and my ability to practice what I love, to fulfill my own personal destiny. Like, I was meant to be an actress.

I'm good at it. It was proven that I was good at it. Yeah. And to be able to do that to me, imagine someone with less power in a smaller industry where they don't have any notoriety. They don't have any Oscar. They're just trying to get by. And some man is like, if you don't sleep with me, I'm going to destroy you. I'm going to get you so no other company will hire you. I'm going to say that you did this.

I'm going to, like, it is so evil. It is one of the most evil abuses of power that's out there. And it's as old as time, you know? So, I mean, I am, I am proud to have been part of this generation that, that stood up and, and, and started to raise our voices together and make some collective change, you know, change legislation, change public opinions. But it was very hard for the first like year and a half after learning that, like I was in a bit of a tailspin because I was like, oh my God, my life wasn't just sort of happening. It had been driven into that. It had been enforced into that. But at that point, like, you know, I just watched that Bill Cosby doc that the documentary, you know, we need to talk about cosby and talking about survivors that it's it so it seems like when there's this many that

everyone's isolated in their own experience until somebody you know says like that happened to you too right yeah now did that happen right when you found out how long did you have to sit alone with this i told everyone that i knew yeah when he had first started making those advances because they were physical it wasn't just it wasn't like with ashley judd where he just said you know yeah you know they they talked about the possibility of having an affair right he did stuff to me yeah and i you know so i told my agents i told my agents, I told my best friends, I told my publicists, my managers, no one was like, oh, that's illegal. You should go to the police or you should have a lawsuit against him or you should go to HR. Like no one was like, you have a case or that.

They were all sort of like, oh, you know, you know, just try and let it roll off your back. Kind of like it's systemic apologists. Yeah. Yeah. you know just try and let it roll off your back kind of like it's systemic apologists yeah yeah just basically everybody knew it about him already but i didn't know how how extensive it was i met one other person a year later when i was doing publicity for the buccaneers who told me a similar story that was it for many years and then i started seeing in the late aughts there were articles supposedly brewing that they were going to expose him. And then they got squashed. And I was like, oh, you know, people are starting to know.

Or like Fabrizio, his pimp in Italy, you know, was like, you know, there were rumors like stuff was starting to come up and he was so powerful he would squash it. I had no idea that there were so many of us. I had no idea. That was, it was sort of stunning. Yeah. of images of like the 98 women that had come out so far. And they didn't tell me they were going to do it. And just seeing the preponderance of faces, I just started crying. I was like, oh, my God. Like, it was so overwhelming. And I have to say some of the most lovely people I've ever met, I've met through this experience and like gracious, incredible women. And most of them had their complete careers completely flattened,

like can't work in the industry anymore. Don't work in the industry anymore. Do something completely different. They were all actors and now they're not, you know, one of them was a screenwriter, but also not working in the industry anymore. Like everybody had to leave. So I am actually one of the very few lucky ones who did continue to work at a low level and now is finally being admitted back into those hallowed halls of good material like and with with high level people like i can't tell you how much it means to be to be on the set of shining veil or something like hollywood or impeachment with ryan murphy like working with these brilliant people in every department all the other actors the directors i feel like oh i'm so happy like i get to do my thing with people who are so terrific and the

atmosphere is so positive and professional and it's not like making some tiny indie where it's first time everybody and there's no commitment to quality i mean sometimes there is and sometimes there isn't but like there's that just run and gun like we don't have the time we don't have the money we're not going to do it right and here everything's about doing it beautiful and amazing and creative and and i'm like i'm so happy like i'm literally like like joyful yeah and like working with people like jeff astroff is the best showrunner the most loving person and so funny on Shining Veil and the fact that he was like oh you sing you dance okay I'm gonna write that in for you what you know like you're making my dreams come true you know but it's like I have to pinch

myself because I was locked out of this situation for many many many years and like to see my name on a poster like Courtney Cox,x greg can hear miras ravino like what like i'm in i'm in that conversation again like where i'm one of the leads that you think you can hang it on on my name like it's so surprising to me and and i think i'm i i'm far more humble now i think. And also, everything's on the table. Culture is shifting. Things have changed. It's transparent now, who you are and what you came from.

And the stigma of either, of the stigma of having Harvey ruining your career or the stigma of having talked is now behind you. Yeah. Because both of those seem to be sometimes problematic. Yeah. And because both of those seem to be sometimes problematic. Yeah. I mean, I was very, very, very fortunate that speaking out did not end up further worsening my career. Actually, strangely, I think people gave me a fresh look because they're like, oh, what is the reason that we never consider her? Maybe we should consider her. Maybe it was all a pig spewing lies and destroying people's lives at will because that's what he did maybe there's nothing wrong with me or let's let's give her an audition you know yeah and and those people who took those chances on me those first chances like i mean startup i don't know if you've seen the show startup yeah um it was on crackle but it finally got discovered by the world when it went on Netflix and then it got to like number three in the whole world. And I'm only in season three, but like those people taking a chance on me, they didn't need to do that. And that was right in 2018, right after the Me Too stuff. only studio movie that I have done in 20 years.

Okay. So that was right, right after that, you know, and then Ryan Murphy casting me in Hollywood in a sort of life, art imitating life, part of an aging actress who has been sort of unfairly kept down by a relationship with the studio head, although hers is consensual,

not right, you know, but there's still this imbalance of power, but there's this scene. I don't know if you've seen Hollywood, but there's a scene where I'm with Holland Taylor and Patty LuPone in the commissary. Right. like that I'm so grateful that you see me and what I might be capable of doing. And it was so meta, you know, so just like, well, this is me thanking Ryan Murphy for seeing me and knowing what I might be capable of doing, you know, and it was super moving for me, but also very vulnerable because I was like, well, everybody watching this is going to think about

how this relates to Mira Sorvino, not just this character. And how were those tears? Were those like, I mean, you were able to draw from your immediate situation. Well, yeah, no, of course, it was, you know, having to hold,

trying to keep them in check, you know, rather than having to bring them up. There was no, there was no intentionality of like, okay, now you've got a crime here.

It was like, you know, just, but, you know, so, I don't know. So I'm in this new phase

where I'm really grateful. Yeah. I'm aware that it could go away at any time. But you're getting to do it. I'm getting to do it. I'm getting to do what I love and what I think I was born for. That's really special. I'm glad. Yeah.

Now I'm all emotional. I'm happy for you. Thank you. And it was great talking to you, and this show is very entertaining, and it seems like you have other things going on. You can make movies? Yeah. I mean, well, I have all these indies that I keep doing, and they keep turning out surprisingly well. I did a movie called East of the Mountains, which is out right now, with Tom Skerritt in his first leading role in his whole career.

Who directed it? S.J. Chiro. Yeah, I know her. S.J. Chiro, I know her. She was friends with my girlfriend who passed away, with Lynn Shelton. How was that? It's terrific. And it's the only movie I've ever been in that has 100% on Rotten Tomatoes.

It's certified fresh, 100%. Oh, my God. Not one one single negative review i feel bad i haven't watched it yet well it's okay i mean it's like settle down you know on one of these cold nights and watch it and he gives such a great performance and you know i play his daughter and you know i don't have a very big part but it's still emotionally important to the story and he's so wonderful and to think that a man of his stature and his talent never was the linchpin of a movie before, like himself. And he's 88. He's always around, though.

He's 88. You know, so he finally, you know, has his beautiful, you know, day in the sun. He's really wonderful and had so many accolades. It was too small of a movie, I think, to really get into Academy consideration, even though we tried. Yeah. But he did get, you know, nominated and honored by other, you think, to really get into Academy consideration, even though we tried. But he did get nominated and honored by other awards

and festivals. So that's still out right now. And then a movie today is opening up called Butter, which actually is also really terrific. It's directed by Paul Kaufman and it's a very strange bird in that it's about a super serious topic and yet it's a comedy. So it's about

a boy, a teenage boy who is morbidly obese, really, really, really heavy, like 400 pounds, who has this kind of Cyrano de Bergerac catfishing crush on this girl in his school, and he pretends to be somebody else online. Meanwhile, he's being bullied really, really heavily, and everybody calls him butter because they tried to force him to eat like a stick of butter um and so he decides that he's going to commit suicide online on new year's eve by eating himself to death it's called butter's final meal his that he has this online plan and oddly because of it he becomes popular like all the cool kids

like they can't even believe that he's doing this. And they like, at first as a joke, start hanging out with them and then they end up actually really liking him. And it's sort of about bullying and it's about body shaming and it's about suicide prevention, but it's a comedy. Yeah.

And somehow it works. What do you play? I play his mom. Oh, wow. And his mom is very like, she's very, it's like she's stuck kind of in this antiquated version of what a mom and a wife should be. Oh, wow. a problem a dangerous problem yeah and as the story goes along she really shifts and starts to understand how she can be there for him in a much healthier way and it's very beautiful

it's it's really i mean it deftly weaves together like comedy and sort of teenage intrigue and then this real heartfelt growth um and and you know paul kaufman really wanted to do a movie that would kind of influence the national dialogue about suicide prevention in teens and body shaming and online bullying. And that just opened today? Yeah, today. Yeah. So it's gotten really wonderful reviews. So that's another one of these small movies that you do because you love.

And then some of them turn out really great. That's great. You know, this is one of those ones yeah so you're busy and back yes busy and back and i really love rosemary my character in shiny veil and and you won't have seen that much of her yet if you've only seen the first few episodes but as the season goes on she becomes really crucial in it and she's a very strange person because she's like she is the dream of the former dead person. Like Rosemary was a real person. Yeah.

50s housewife, very repressed, kind of abused by her husband, just without hope. But she dreams of living like a movie siren. So when you meet the ghost of Rosemary, she's fabulous. And she just wants to hold parties and let's drink, let's dance, let's go to Paris. Yeah. But there's also an evil side to her

because she's a ghost, you know, so. Sure, but like, was that your perception of the character or was that the backstory? Was the device of the dream

of that person your idea? Well, I think it's sort of mine and sort of in the writing but I definitely took her on this 50s silver screen

like trajectory. Yeah. I mean, she's always in 50s clothes and she's in the writing, but I definitely took her on this 50s silver screen like trajectory. I mean, she's always in 50s clothes and she's from the 50s, but like I don't have her talk like a modern person. She's like, she's living her best life

as she imagined life was supposed to be while she was alive and miserable. But she's kind of a combination. She's the real Rosemary is in there.

The dead Rosemary is in there. Then there's the spirit Rosemary who is a much older entity, but also has hopes and dreams. And then there's also some, like the scorpion, eventually she's going to sting you because she's a spirit in a house haunting. Angry ghost. Yeah, and there's things that happen. It's not so much that she's angry. It's just in her nature.

She has to cause mayhem. She has to cause destruction. It's the ghost's responsibility. It is. It's just in her nature. She has to cause mayhem. She has to cause destruction. It's the ghost's responsibility. It is. And when they haunt the house. Yes. And, you know, the whole show is full of tips of the hat to other famous horror movies. And, you know, like Rosemary's Baby, The Shining, Nightmare on Elm Street, Twin Peaks.

Well, now I'm going to watch the whole thing now. Oh, you'll love it. It's really fun. It's really fun. Well, thanks for talking to me. Sure. You feel good? do i do okay okay you okay i hope she's okay the show's fun and it was great to talk to her but it was like it was yeah the show she's on is shining veil it's on stars premieres this sunday

march 6th and you know go enjoy her and all her work okay guitar time les paul time les paul custom time Thank you. Thank you. BOOMER LIVES MONKEY LAFONDA Boomer lives. Monkey. Lafonda. Cat angels everywhere. You can get anything you need with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats.

But meatballs and mozzarella balls, yes, we can deliver that. Uber Eats, get almost, almost anything. Order now. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category.

And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative.