WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1311 - Caroline Rhea

Episode Date: March 7, 2022

Not many people know Marc the way Caroline Rhea does. They have a history that runs through the many different stages of each of their lives and careers. Caroline and Marc sit down for a conversation about confronting the past, learning from failure, and reckoning with the fact that their work now resonates with multiple generations of fans. They're also able to compare notes on their experiences in comedy, such as which clubs are actually the good ones and what missed opportunities were better left unaccomplished.  Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed,

how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Lock the gates!

All right, let's do this. How are you, what the fuckers? What the fuck, buddies? What the fuck, Knicks? How's it going? What's happening? I'm Mark Maron. This is my podcast, WTF.

Caroline Ray is here today. We go way back, and we go way deep, and we've done the thing. She was on Maron. She was on one of the early episodes, like episode eight, before it was even an interview show. She just had a baby, I think, when we talked. That was like 2009. So a lot has happened since. But she's still operating at the same frequency.

She's on this new show called LOL, Last One Laughing Canada, which is a comedy competition show streaming on Prime Video. But always funny, always a bit intense somehow. But these are long grooves, man. I've got a neural pathway specifically designated for Caroline Ray. Did I mention my cardiologist appointment? Did I?

In my journey of decay and aging, I'm talking in serious radio voice today. Sometimes it just happens. I can hear i in my journey of decay and aging i'm talking in serious radio voice today sometimes it just happens i can hear it in my voice when i i'd throw a switch in my throat and something happens but i did i went to the cardiologist because i was in a uh you know a minor spiral post-covid that uh i picked some renegade information about heart problems post-COVID. But even though they are rare, they primarily happen to those who are unvaccinated. I am vaxxed to the max. I'm vaxxed up my ass. I'm vaxxed. But anyways, I was in enough panic to sway my provider to give me a referral to my cardiologist. My cardiologist.

I haven't seen this guy in four years. I saw him once, four years ago. Can't even remember why. Yeah, I do. I remember. I had high numbers or something. So anyway, I go to the cardiologist. I go to the guy.

And look, man, the first visit, it was great. What an uplifting visit. Because I was there four years ago because I have a little plaque in my pump. Not unlike a lot of people, but I had more plaque than probably necessary. It was probably from years of smoking. So I go back, and he tests my blood pressure. Perfect. I'm the king of blood pressure. Cholesterol is looking good.

It's looking good. I'm on a slight and a little bit of medicine, but the cholesterol is good. And then we did the EKG. Looks good. So he says, come back for a stress test. Fine. I'll come back for that. Stress test and the ultrasound so i go back

a week or so later this is a few days ago the ultrasound taken into a room woman loops me up a woman lubes up my chest and then starts doing the number doing the ultrasound number you can't see anything but occasionally the sound will come on. It's like, and I'm like, that doesn't sound right. I'm like, that can't be good. That sounds even worse. What happened to all of a sudden it's like

and i'm like are those good noises they never tell you the tech will never tell you they're sworn to secrecy they sign an nda they're not allowed to speculate even though they know what the things indicate they're not the doc so i'm like does that one is that one bad that can't be good that doesn't sound right does it do any of them do the familiar beat why does it got to be this techno stuff huh no information so we do the, do the carotids with the ultrasound. We do the full pump. The full pump spectrum, I think is what they call it in the biz,

in the racket, in the cardiologist racket. It's called the full pump spectrum. So I get that done. Then I got to get on the treadmill for the stress test. And I feel like the tech there was a little passive aggressive in thinking that I might not be able to pull it off. She's like, look, we're going to try to get to 160, a heart rate of 160 in three minute increments where there

will be an increase in speed and in incline until we get to 160. You can stop any time before that. Just tell me when you're ready to stop. I'm like, I'm not stopping. Start this fucker. Let's do this. So we get going. And it's not hard at the beginning. But to get it up to, because mine runs a little low.

The guy said that's fine. I questioned him again, the doc. But we get going on the stress test, three minutes, fine. She says, you know, in 10 seconds, I'm going to incline higher, faster. Okay, do it. Another three minutes at that, and then another three minutes at that, and then it's hard, man. It's hard. And we're getting up there, but I'm like working.

And she's like, okay, you've hit 160, but you can keep going if you want. Do I need to? She's like, no. So what would be the point of that? Didn't we achieve our goal? But some part of me was thought like, all right, I'll keep going. I'll fucking keep going. Let's blow this hard up, man.

Let's blow it up. Beat, beat, beat. Let's blow it up. Beep, beep, beep. So I hit the 160. And they got all the numbers together. Ultrasound bleeps, blips, boops, carotid, stress test, doc. They hit me again with the blood pressure. Perfect. Doc says, well, look, everything's looking good.

Great. He said the carotids look good. A little bit more plaque, not bad. Stress test looks great. There was no indicators that are worrying. And the ultrasound is good. One of your valves doesn't close all the way. So I'll see you in a year.

I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, what? One of the valves doesn't close? One of the valves doesn't close all the way. So I'll see you in a year. I'm like, well, what? One of the valves doesn't close? One of the valves doesn't close all the way? What does that mean? Well, nothing. You just, you come back in a year, you can exercise as much as you want. But wait, one of the valves doesn't close all the way? I mean, is that, do I, am I, can, no, just come back, come back in a year and exercise as much as you want. Wait, I, you know, I can't, you know, I i don't know what that means but it doesn't sound correct obviously everything's great except one of the valves doesn't close all the way and your heart rate's very slow so like are you just not telling me because the condition that i have is just incurable so you're like fuck it man be honest with the guy give him the facts but don't tell him that, you know, his heart is had enough.

It's just slowing down. It's just like, I'm done. That's it. That's my valve. What's the matter with your heart? It doesn't close all the way. boom, boom, boom. What's the matter with your heart?

It doesn't close all the way. Boom, boom, boom, boom. So that's my status. Got a little, I got a valve that's a little leaky and the rest is great. So that's just something I know now. Now I know that. Now I know that. Now I know that.

Went on a hike with Kit, the cat girl. She's got a good eye for scary shit, I guess. She's a horror fan. I'm not a horror fan. She's a horror fan. But it doesn't matter. We're on a little hike. And she sighted a black widow spider in a bush in its web.

And I grew up in New Mexico and I think I've seen black widows, but this was a perfect specimen of one. And I don't know that I've ever seen one. Intense. A life of fear of the black widow, the mythical black widow and all of its implications to see the belly of a black widow in its web with that red hourglass. It's so defined. It's no question. There's no question. You have to look like I remember when I was a kid. Is that one? Do you see a red thing on it? This was clear, man. And it is a full on hourglass red thing on it this was clear man and it is a full-on hourglass red dot on the belly of a black widow and it was in its web i took pictures of a very very hard to focus i gotta get a better camera get a better phone better camera but man it was a life-changing moment to see a real black widow because you have that moment i don't know you know when you think you see somebody is that

a thing is that what it is is that? I think that's what it is. No doubt. It was like, I don't think I've ever seen one before. Not even at a fucking zoo where they have bugs in glass. Bugs in glass tanks. Some zoos have them. They have them with the lizards and stuff. But it was right there in the wild, and I got pretty close with the camera.

But it's not after me. But I think it changed my brain a little bit to see a real black widow it's very exciting very exciting also i did uh did a very good set the other day i will say that last week at uh at largo i did some fucking fucking solid riffing. Got a little dirty too. The dirty's coming back. It was welcome. It was welcomed.

Out of nowhere, I was in my pants. And we all enjoyed it. Everybody involved. The whole audience enjoyed me being in my pants. Felt like the old days when I worked a little blue. I think me and Caroline get a little blue here. So,

brace yourself. She's a wild ride, Caroline. I mean, just conversationally. Just trying to, you know, trying to land.

We're just trying to land here. She's on the show LOL, Last One Laughing, Canada. It's a comedy competition show on Prime Video. She's one of my oldest friends in comedy. We hated each other, which meant we had to become fuck buddies.

That's the blurb for the movie about us. All right, this is me talking to Caroline. It's winter, and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So, no, you can anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost almost anything. So no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats. But meatballs, mozzarella balls, and arancini balls? Yes, we deliver those. Moose? No.

But moose head? Yes. Because that's alcohol, and we deliver that too. Along with your favorite restaurant food, groceries, and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer.

I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Ray. Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. How long do you record this for?

For as long as it feels good. We're not doing three hours. It's not going to feel good for three hours. But, you know, for until, you know, I have a high tolerance. Thank you so much. And I know you pretty well. I was trying to think. Now, wait, what is this anniversary that today is?

You said it was the day you moved to New York? It was the day I moved to New York in 1989. It's also my grandfather's birthday, so it was good luck. From Canada? Yeah, I moved to New York with $300. On March 3rd, 1989, my mother drove me to the city. And then she wanted me to drive back to White Plains and take the train from there. And I was like, you're never going to let me go!

She was like, thanks. I just didn't want to drive alone and then i didn't want and then yeah and i moved to new york with 300 bucks and bought a pair of earrings for 220 the next day priorities yeah so then i lived on 80 and i would i would spend a dollar a day i would eat a hot dog and that was it so you i moved in with my sister right but i i mean i i feel like you probably had access to money if you needed it no for some reason i thought i was going to be really brave oh no i think my dad all i wanted my dad to do was like pay for drama school yeah but wait let me ask you a question about the present why the fuck don't you move back to canada right now yeah because i have a daughter who has a father who's american i can't do that.

Would you if you didn't? Look, I get hotter and hotter the older I get because of my passport and citizenship. Someone can marry me and flee. I'm thinking about it. Thank you. I'm only your entire age too old for you. Together?

But we could convince them that it's legit because we have a history. Right. We could show them. We've been together for 40 years. Look at this picture. You haven't aged. Yeah, we could make that work.

I have aged. You have not aged. You keep saying that. You haven't aged. You know what? I'm going to tell everybody what I said to you and how you responded. When I saw you, I said, you look too thin. And you said? Thank you. Exactly. Exactly you, I said, you look too thin. And you said?

Thank you. Exactly. Exactly. I don't know what the problem is. I know when I'm too thin. You do? Yes. When? When my face starts looking drawn. When I look at pictures and I look like I'm just barely staying awake and my mouth is hanging open because I'm not eating enough.

You look the exact same to me. And I believe in 1989, Yeah. I either met you that year or I met you in 1990. It is almost, what is it, 35 years? No, don't say 35. It's only 33. It's weird. What year did I meet you? Because you had been in Boston. Well, I was going back and forth, right?

So it was probably around 88, because i want i was i started going to new york like i moved into that apartment in new york in 89 okay so we probably where we would listen to records did we did we was it records because i also remember no but what do you think it was vhs tapes no eight tracks we met before that apartment. We met. Because I remember being, I think the first time that we ever hung out friendly. No, we hated each other on site, if you remember. That lasted like 10 minutes. And the next thing I remember, we were having sex somewhere. No, we were making out in a car.

Like you hated me. And I think that night. I remember thinking, God, I hate this guy. He is just so offensive. Yeah. And I think that night. I remember thinking, God, I hate this guy. He is just so offensive. Yeah. Yeah. And your jokes. Yeah.

I remember you had a joke and I was like, that is very funny. I saw you on like MTV half hour or something. Angrily funny. Angrily. I was like, oh, he's so funny. But you had the most, I'm sorry, but like the most gorgeous mouth. And I remember thinking that. Yeah.

Uh huh. Luckily it's covered by a mustache so I can contain myself now. Oh, thank God. No. And then we were making out in the back of a that. Yeah. Uh-huh. Luckily, it's covered by a mustache, so I can contain myself now. Oh, thank God. And then we were making out in the back of a car. Yeah. But that wasn't in town, was it? Who was driving? No, we were making out in a car.

It wasn't a cab. It was somebody was driving. They just got out of the car. No, it wasn't a cab. God. But who were... Well, here's the thing, is I know that we met before I got that apartment because I remember being with you when my cousin had that apartment.

I was going to say, your cousin, I remember that apartment on 14th Street. Yeah, the Zeckendorf building with the pyramids on top. Right. And that's where I would stay sometimes when I'd come to New York if she wasn't there. I perhaps have seen that apartment a few times. Yes. I kind of remember it. Yes.

I remember it. I remember. I remember a couple of incidents. Really? Just a couple? Yeah. I remember it yes i remember it i remember i remember a couple of incidents really just a couple yeah i remember this what do you there's a long arc don't you remember don't you remember my upper east side apartment yeah the huge apartment where it was like is this a circle does it like are we going into different rooms it's like the biggest apartment i've ever seen in new york you're like here's the kitchen here's the other kitchen like what is this?

My kosher kitchen. Yeah. As opposed to your apartments, which were like- I just remember your apartment, I had to be afraid to sit on anything. Your apartment, there was no foreplay. It's just you walked in and fell on the bed. Yeah. That was it. We're going to listen to music.

Well, that's what poverty looks like. That's what- Yeah. How the mighty have changed. Yeah. Not fallen. Well, no. I mean, I didn't have that plan.

That was like the best apartment I could get, that apartment. And then I remember. The Queens apartment? You were never out there, were you? Of course you were. Yes, I was. Thanks a lot. I was in the Queens apartment,

but then I remember you had bedbugs in Queens. Yeah, but that was later. I didn't like that Queens apartment. That was later. No. If you were there. I spanned the 14th Street, the Avenue A, Queens. You spanned the entire career.

Sometimes years would go by. Yeah, years go by. Are we going to try it? God, Mark. Do we still do this? I don't know. Do we? Let's give it a whirl.

Oh, Libras. Not today. Not today. Not today. not today not today satan yeah i'm satan why am i the same not today but let me yes i was looking at but then i asked you when you had your show i said oh we should do something about how you know friends who right whatever that was forever and then fall into it again. Oh, I'm Maren. That's right. We did exactly what we do. And then I was like,

oh, well, people will just think it's fiction. And then you're like, no, Carolyn and I, I'm like, all right, okay. So much for that. I don't think there's a... It's like a biopic. There's a statute of limitations on this shit.

I mean, there's obviously, like by us being candid, there's a couple of people that could get hurt and might be like, what's the timeline on this? It was a shifting timeline. It was. It was long and shifting. And it wasn't like we ever locked in for any period of time. It was just always there, kind of.

I do remember one time you slept over and we were both like, ah! I know. Oh, God, you have to go. No, no, this is not a- I don't think I slept over. No, one time you slept over and we were both like, ah! I know. Oh, God, you have to go. No, no, this is not a... I don't think I slept over. No, one time you slept over. Wow. I remember on the Upper East Side and I remember the discomfort of it all. Like, we were both like, where's

the eject button? How did this happen? That was another attempt at something. You know what? We were like vampires. It could not... It didn't... Exist in the day? Yes, exactly. It wasn't daylight. But remember we should go to that great restaurant which one oh it was so good dojo's oh that's so funny i think that yes the memory is better than the restaurant i mean it was i don't know if it was a great restaurant

really yeah there's another great kind of like yeah there was like vaselka the vaselka that we went there a lot that's good but dojo you'd you'd walk downstairs and you'd get the steamed vegetables, the brown rice and the strange veggie burger that would come on the brown rice. Right. It was okay. It was okay. It sounds like a bad- A little dirty.

It was like a vegetarian porn and then it would come on the brown rice. Yeah, come right on the brown rice, the sauce. The veggie burger would just drop a load on the brown rice. Wow, you turned it into a whole different movie. Yeah, I know. It'd get dirty. Yeah, but Dojo was a place. It was open.

That was the thing, right? Three in the morning. Yeah, we would always go there. That was, you know what? We had a great life of going to do stand-up all night in every single club and then sitting in the cellar and then ending up at the Dojo. Yep, we did. But you were able to work at more clubs than me. That was always

the problem. Bitter party of one. You're like, how are you doing in your poverty? I was never like that! How's it going? Oh my God, I was never like that. How are you going in your poverty? How was the VJ audition? Oh!

You were on for it. No, you are such a projector because when i got sabrina you said to me i am not happy for you at all i'm very bitter and jealous and i don't think we can be friends that's what you said to me i was up in 1996 i was up for the ant part i was up you were the same part you were sabrina aunt hilda was either mark maron or me it was very close but well i was up for maron and then they went with you. I remember being at an audition in 1989 for, I don't know what it was, but it literally was sitting there, and it said a Victoria Jackson and Kevin Nealon type.

And then I was sitting there, and Victoria Jackson and Kevin Nealon both walked in, and I was like, I am so getting this. Did you? No. Who got it? I'm sure victoria jackson well things didn't end well for her i have a question yeah i have a question yeah this is a question it is weird like when i was a kid i was obsessed with um you know i watched of course carol burnett who i've been ended up i don't know why i never interviewed you've never interviewed

okay every time i've met her i burst into tears She looks at me and she's sort of like, please don't cry. Yeah. She just meant so much to me. But I want to, I want to point out that Caroline got lost on the way over here. And when she called to ask me directions, she was crying. Okay.

Thank you. I don't like getting lost. Thanks for sharing. I was, I was crying. It'll, I was at a comedy club the other day. I went to park the thing you know the

whatever the parking what do you call it like the barrier thing what do you call it uh the parking the gate basically the gate yeah it wouldn't open so i had to back up and turn the next thing i knew i was literally on the 134 two exits down i was like i was at the club how am i this lost oh my god okay so when this is just an interesting thing. Like when you're a kid and something that deeply affected you. Right. Did you ever imagine that you would be having a talk with Keith Richards about a hat when you were a kid? No, no, no.

I'd never. So what happened with that? With what? Your call with Keith Richards that you mentioned it so casually. Well, I, you know, he's got, they're reissuing a record and I was offered the opportunity to talk to him again. I've talked to him before and it was good,

but I get very excited with him. I know, but how do you not freak out? Because I've talked to a lot of people at this point. Yes, I know. You're very important. Not important, but like, you know,

there are some people. It doesn't matter. If I met, who would you, if you met right now, would you freak out at anyone? Well, I had to, I did freak out, but I didn't freak out in a bad way I knew I could handle it but I thought but since

the last time I talked to him that I wouldn't be like oh my god but I was I did it came right out right away just like 14 year old me was like that would that one record you know that was so good what guitar were you playing? So that happened. And I get nervous before every one of these things. But what I've learned is even knowing these people are human, there are some people that I've talked to that I still remain pedestaled for me. That I still feel like, well, I don't want to. There's these moments that you have with people where it's like, I think we're going to be friends. Like, no, we're not.

Don't, you know. Yeah. When I had my talk show, I thought everybody. It's like my joke. And it's really the truth. celebrities are intimidating yeah i'm the kind of celebrity where fans eventually say to me i've got to go because i i'm so codependent and if anybody talks to me i don't want them to i've seen celebrities be mean to people especially to kids and then i'm like i'm the most overcompensating i don't want anyone to ever feel bad yeah but i think like there's, I'm starting,

I think we're starting to learn that they kind of want you to be not a dick, but to be the celebrity. You know, if you're, the problem with today is like we're all so accessible one way or the other. Right. I'm like, I'm very diplomatic with stalkers. You know, like I'm sort of like, so what do you want?

Oh, why do you think if you stalk someone long and if you'll eventually become friends? Well, that's why I have a a joke in a way you're sort of like the only way to deal with stalkers is you know take them out to lunch because you'll disappoint them they're like you're not what i thought you were exactly who is what's the what's the um okay i want to tell you that my daughter and i were in how old she's she now? She's 13. Wow. Love of my life. Yeah. So funny. You're in where?

She's funny? She's so funny. You pushing her into the show business? No, she's funny in a really hilarious way. She's like... Is she writing for you? I know it's not... I fall for it every time.

She's like, Mark, do you like Imagine Dragons? I don't know what that is. The musical band? Okay, no. Yes. I don't know. Okay, let's do it again. You don't have a 13-year-old daughter. band? Okay, no. Yes. I don't know. Okay, let's do it again. You don't have a 13-year-old daughter.

Okay. Let me try it again. I'll play along. Mommy, do you like Imagine Dragons? I do. I do. Imagine Dragon Dem nuts across your face. Wow.

That happened? She's blue. She plays dirty. Yeah. And it made me laugh, really. She's just funny. Where did she learn that? I don't know.

I don't know on TikTok. I don't know. Are she going to be paying attention to that? I think it's hilarious. What are you talking about? Does she know what it means? Her father's a comedian, but luckily she has my act. Yeah.

Yeah. That guy was always a little dark. You know what? I remember when I first started going out with him and I told you, you were like, that guy is so morose. He's so sad. Yeah. Was that right? He's just got a heavier energy. Maybe that's it's it that was very funny he's just got a heavy it like i'm i i'm

porous like you yeah like i feel everyone and everything i'm very empathetic and he's he's just much more like what's the word boundaries so let's go back to canada so you grew up where i grew up in montreal in Montreal? Do you speak French? Only in the present tense, because that's all I can remember from high school. As long as it happened today. Next question. Is that true? Yeah. Oh. I don't, see, I meet a lot of Canadians. I talk to Canadians.

I don't always know, given the current state of affairs, why people leave Canada. Well, for me, I had no opportunity to be a sitcom actress in Canada. What do you mean? It seems like if you hang around long enough, everyone gets a show up there. Really? Who? I don't know.

It seems like all comics in Canada. I've never seen the shows. I just did. But I know that you talked to Bruce McCullough. He's like, we did nine seasons of that. I'm like, what? It's in Canada. Yeah, but then you're also paid in Canadian,

in Canadian wages. They're like, would you like two potatoes and a bottle of maple syrup? There you go. Oh, but then you're also paid in Canadian, in Canadian wages, you know? They're like, would you like two potatoes and a bottle of maple syrup? There you go. Oh, here's a hockey jersey. The nationalized healthcare is not all it's racked up to be, is it? You know what?

It's really, it's better than not going to the doctor. When I first moved to New York, I was literally on like a yacht as a cater waiter. Yeah. And this guy showed me his gout ridden foot which was a lovely shade of purple i remember it because it was like a nightmare make yourself available to people yeah i do hey can i see you and i said why haven't you gone to the doctor he's like i don't have insurance i'm like like that would never happen in canada but also you might just have

to wait for two months. The gout would have been your entire leg by the time you see a doctor. And then people die in emergency rooms there because they don't ever make it to a room. But that's happening here now, not just because of COVID, but because even my plan now, it's like I tried to get an appointment with a specialist. They're like, yeah, June. I'm like, what? Well, plastic surgeons are busy, Mark. That's why I just got to accept what I have.

I can't get this pulled back just this little thing on my chin just on my neck i just i want to do a handstand and get a staple gun i just want it all and i just want to set the time machine like i'll be fine 1994 just set it back to that i just you know like i get different people that i'm told i look like depending on my weight which which I find funny. Really? Where are you at now? Wow. Who is it? It's just me.

It's actually just me. Who do you remind people of now? I'm not going to say anything. You know what? You're not going to say anything. I'm going to reach over and slap you with your hammer. But did you start stand-up in Canada? Because I don't know these things about you really.

I have a weird memory. I started stand-up when I met you. Oh, so that was it? I never did it in Canada. No, I will tell you one thing. My mother had like a quadruple. I used to like your impressions. My mom had a quadruple bypass. Oh, my God.

When was this? Oh. Are we back before you left? No. No, like it was before Ava was born so like 13 years ago yeah and that was completely free completely free canada and that surgery is 450 000 here so there's some things that first of all socialized medicine everybody should be insured it's ridiculous that's absolutely right and the fact that like some people have to go to GoFundMes. I know. It's heartbreaking.

No. All right. But so. All right. So in Canada. Okay. I moved to New York in 19. I know that. But I'm talking about before you had two sisters.

No, I still have two sisters. Yeah. Are you reading Wikipedia for God's sake? No. What are you reading? I have two sisters. Because I tried to remember if I've ever met one of your sisters. You have met both of my sisters.

One. Briefly. Well, no. Briefly. Okay. I'm not saying you were at like family holidays. I wasn't. For God's sake. You're not. Never my sisters. Briefly. Well, no. Briefly. Okay. I'm not saying you were at family holidays, for God's sake. You're not. Never.

But I can't get- You slept over one night, Mark. Let it go. I can't- I'm not claiming you. Why aren't you taking care of me more? You're not even on the relationship tree, okay? I know.

I know. I know a couple people who are. There are a few branches. Whatever. Yeah, I know. I'm just one of the- are. There are a few branches. Yeah, I know. I'm just one of the fallen fruits. Yes. I'm just one of them.

Yeah. So when I was in Parakeet with my daughter, I said to her, I said, honey, I want you to look over there. Yeah. There. That is one of the greatest musicians in the world. And that is one of the most beautiful supermodels that ever was. And she looked over and she said, mommy, I can't see them.

The very old couple are blocking them. And I said said mommy i can't see them the very old couple are blocking them and i said no honey they are the very old couple and it was keith richards and his beautiful wife oh yeah but we just saw the stones in october and they were unbelievable yeah it was fun right it was so fun where were you sitting up close no i was i i got in at the last minute uh in fort lauderdale because I was visiting my mother. And I had like a little connection to their publicist. But I got good seats. But no, the benefit of the Fort Lauderdale show is only 7,000 seater, which is a small room for them. That is amazing.

Why do you have so many guitars? You could have had one child by now. There's six guitars? I try to get them for nothing. And I'm not a collector. They just sort of appear. It is sexy when you play guitar. Thank you very much. It is.

I love it. I like occasionally watching on the live stream, and it's just women throwing themselves at you. It's kind of bizarre, right? Yeah. Extremely. I don't do it as much as I used to. So when you were in high school, how did that go? Did you go to a fancy school?

What's your life like in Montreal? I have no sense of Montreal. You have made fun of me for all of this. You really don't remember any of it. I know that your dad was a doctor. I went to all-girls school, private all-girls school. There were 17 girls in my class. 17?

Yeah. Small. Yeah, very small. Was it convent school no we were not it was called the study the study school for girls yeah and that's all i knew i didn't even take a bus till i was about 15 yeah and then i moved to new york and i was like what is being on the street and then i met you and it's like oh my god he was peeing on the street you're peeing no i just remember there being a it's just funny because I had such a sheltered childhood.

But I just remember meeting you and it was like you were already playing at a lot of the clubs. You were like way friendly with Louis Ferranda, who I still resent. I still resent him too. Why would you resent him? Because he's been mean to me since. Huh. Yeah.

He actually made it right with me by giving me Carnegie Hall. So I can't, I don't really have a right to. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm going to pick that right with me by giving me Carnegie Hall so I can't I don't really have a right I'm sorry I'm gonna pick that name up you he gave you Carnegie Hall kinda what happened what do you mean I just I did the New York Comedy Fest oh he booked it yeah okay he still books it but like it was I was so mad yeah I don't know what he did he was like he like literally gave me a career and then he decided he decided he just was mean to me after that. How did that work? When you started doing comedy, when did you start passing?

What was the steps? It's funny, because I drove past the improv, and I remember- On 44th Street? Yeah, 44th. Yeah. And the first- The dumpy little, with the letters missing in the sign? Now it's the producer's club.

It's not the improv anymore. I thought it was a restaurant. Oh, is it? Yeah. I just remember there were prostitutes everywhere. There was a woman wearing an entirely, it was like a clear plastic jumper. I was like, why bother? Yeah.

And I was, you know, I'd never seen a prostitute. That was 89? Yeah. It was sort of in shambles by then. I was working there then. You were? I worked there when I got you know that was one of the places where I worked you know silver would let me work there but it was there

was it was beat up and there wasn't a lot of people where I was like me and Dan Vitale and Bob Shaw and Uncle Dirty and uh what was that guy William Cornell that's who I saw well Billiam I used to see down at the cellar but Jerry Diner was at the improv. And who was that other guy? Brett Butler was there because I sat next to Brett. And I always remember thinking like, because Brett was so mean to me at first. And I was like, it was like Zola Budd and Mary Decker. I was like, I loved her. She can be a little mean.

She was a little mean. Because, you know, you have the same manager that I used to have. It's so funny because that manager wouldn't give me the time of day when you were with him when you were a kid. Right. He had Brett and you and Dana Gould. And I would call him. Greg Barron.

And I would call and pretend that- You were Brett. Can you still do the voice? I know. Hey, y'all, I don't understand why you're representing Caroline Rice. She's like, nothing but like a dumb blonde with big tits. And he would go, we won't, Brett. We're sorry.

No, we won't. Absolutely not. And I go, it's me, you idiots. I do this every week. How do you not do it? But when Brett got... And then David would say, like, I was just kidding. No, no, just kidding.

No. That was my joke, that you could never tell if it was bad news or not, because they were Australian. Yeah, you didn't get the part. I'm like, but you sound so happy about it. Yeah, no. No, you didn't get the part. I'm like, but you sound so happy about it. Yeah, no, no, you didn't. Did you? No.

And now he called, listen, Mac. Yeah. Is that what he calls you? Mac. Yeah. How you going? I never get used to it. How you going?

I never get used to it. It's so weird when you go there too. They have weird words like, all their food is like for women. It's like, I'm a gold, this steak is gorgeous. It's beautiful. It's so lovely. Yeah. It's like, oh my God, this steak is gorgeous. It's beautiful. It's so lovely. Yeah. It's like, it's a steak.

So how did you get them as managers? What, what, what happens? I don't remember. I feel like I'm having, this is like having, I feel like I'm being tested for like senility. I have to go back in this. No, but I'm just like, cause I remember by 80, by the time I met you within like within a year, you seem to be like moving. Like I, I, I. It happened quickly for me.

Yeah. I was on television like the 10th time I was on stage basically. Really? Yeah. MTV half hour, comedy hour. Oh yeah, we did those. I did one of those. Yeah, you did those.

And then you did. I yelled and sweated on that show. Yeah. You yelled and sweated. Yeah, at many shows. I was just yelling and sweating. You were very angry. You were very angry on and off stage those would you

describe those as angry years for you yeah for sure like i and i you were furious and why i was so drawn to you i don't know because i was like literally made fun of because i was like sunshine and goodness i never even knew what a wasp was i was called a wasp and i was like and it turns out you're just canadian i am i'm just can. I would just talk to everybody. I was polite. Then we had a huge fight. Remember, we had like a huge fight and then we didn't talk to each other for like a year. And then we saw each other at the comic strip and you said you were sorry. Yeah.

And then we were both crying at the comic strip. Do you remember that? Yeah. I don't remember what we thought about. No, I don't either. But, but yeah, no, that right. It was a fascinating study for people who love you. They're like, are you going to play the guitar or talk about music?

No, we're just going to try and remember things from 30 years ago. Well, that's what old people do. Oh, I do not identify as old. I will not be called that. This is the one career where you're not supposed to not age. No, but I mean, eventually, like that's what people do is just sit around. And try to remind each other of things. Right.

What is this? That's a slide for a guitar to make a slide sound i think that's a ben harper one i think ben gave that to me oh my god the name dropping is unbelievable what is it like it's this name is on it all right fine it is it's on it ben harper um i just want to know i want to know about catch rising star let's do like people like the comedy history oh they do like the history okay so i remember sitting down um because that's where you were in and that was the hard one to get into yeah I mean no wait so I'm telling you so the first set I used so I had a job I had like during the day I sprayed perfume at Bloomingdale's that horrible job wow right up

until someone literally sprayed me back and then I was like I can't do this I'm not kidding yeah and this guy would come in and give me a feather every day yeah and and want the feather guy oh it was disgusting that was at bloomingdales i would do that pigeon feather and then at during the night i would i was a uh cater waiter on a yacht on 23rd street yeah and then at then i would start going out and just going to open mics and then I remember starting at like 8 in the morning finishing at like 1 in the morning

and going to bed and getting up because I had a 3.40 at the improv that was like one of my first sets because remember they used to do prom shows the worst thing in the entire world 3.40am 3.40am that was my set and just like

teenagers and tuxes yeah teenage tuxes and just screaming at you yeah and then yeah and then i passed and then i went to the comic strip and lucian said to me well clearly you're funny but i don't really think this is something that you're cut out to do as a career so why don't you come back in a year and we'll try again and And I didn't go back for like 12 years. I was so pissed at him. I'm like, oh, I'm just doing Letterman. Can I do whatever? So Lewis really like.

Was the guy? Yeah, he put me up. I was the emcee forever. Did you audition? Yeah, of course I auditioned. Who was there when you got there? Linda Smith, who was best friends and I believe is still best friends with Lewis louis i started with linda smith at open mics in boston when i was in college like i knew her before everything wow it's crazy that is crazy who else did you start with in boston yeah john

groff really yep has the same birthday as me uh i love John Groff. Who else was around? By the time I was in college- Our generation is pretty successful. Our class of comedians. Yep. Jeff Ross, who was Jeff Lifsholtz, he and I started together. Right. Wait, I totally forgot. I went to the new school and I studied standup comedy with Scott Blakeman, who I had a huge

crush on. And then our final thing was that we went up at the comic strip. Right. And as I was walking to the stage, and I will never forget, I was wearing green, short, overall polka dot things. And I looked like I was doing some Broadway musical for Little Abner. Yeah. And then as I walked to the stage, my friend John Wiley screamed, you're really bad.

Because he was Australian. And I hadn't even spoken yet. Yeah. And then I did walked to the stage, my friend John Wiley screamed, you're really bad. Because he was Australian. Yeah. And I hadn't even spoken yet. Yeah. And then I did my set there. And then I worked out at Stand Up New York all the time. And Kerry Hoffman was very supportive. He didn't like you?

No, he didn't like me. Lewis didn't really like me. In retrospect, I get it. I don't hold it against them. Boston Comedy Club loved you. Yeah, but there was barely anyone in charge there. Right. You know, like, thank God for Boston Comedy Club.

I couldn't get on at the Cellar until she saw my HBO half hour. Are you serious? Yeah. What year was that? 96. Wow. Yeah, she just, and I, like, I don't. I will still bomb at the Cellar.

I can kill at every club and I would go down there and I will still bomb. Yeah, I don't feel like it's home to me. I don't even go in there anymore. I don't know what's happening there the best comedy club in the world to me was the comedy underground in seattle oh yeah it was great the original one yeah that swampy place that uh yeah that you would go literally laura and uh what was the guy's name that nice guy uh there was a couple yeah it was great that yeah the original um denver comedy club The original Denver Comedy Club. Downtown. Yeah. Comedy Works. Yeah, Comedy Works.

The Atlanta Punchline. The original. Yeah. Even though it was like an art. DePetta's room? Yeah. Yeah. Chris DePetta and Jamie Bendel's room.

Yeah. People like that DC Improv. That is a great club. Yep. The DC Improv is very good. And then what about Around the World? Where's that? No, I mean Around the World that you've played.

In general. I don't do a lot of international. Why not? I just, I've done, I did theaters in like London and I did a tour of Scandinavia. It was okay. How was that? It was pretty good. I did Stockholm.

Did they laugh? I did Oslo. I did Amsterdam. Yeah. And they all know you from your podcast? Kinda, yeah. That's amazing. I did Amsterdam. Yeah. And they all know you from your podcast? Kinda, yeah. That's amazing. I think so. And yeah, most of those were pretty English speaking. They got it.

London was okay. I've done but that's pretty, I think that's the extent of it. Australia, I've hit or miss in places in Australia. I had to change venues in Brisbane, but apparently it's not, I shouldn't be too hard on myself about that. So we're going to put you in the smaller one. No problem. I would rather have been in the, but apparently it's not. I shouldn't be too hard on myself about that. So we're going to put you in the smaller one.

No problem. I would rather have been in the small. They put me up in the Melbourne Comedy Festival. I was in the round tent. You know what I'm talking about? I don't know. I didn't. I did Sydney. I don't think it's ever fun.

I think I want to be on the same level as the audience. I don't want to be even like, you know what I mean? Sometimes you can be too high. Yeah. Well, it's all of a sudden then you're not connecting to any human beings you're talking ever catch yourself just talking above no sadly i always focus on one poor person who gets by the end of the show very exhausted why because i just i can't hold eye contact like i don't know how to just look out so i'll just look at certain people and then like i'll all of a sudden realize what i'm doing and

they're just like why what do you mean you can't hold eye contact no I can't I can't not hold that kind like I can't it's hard for me just to play to the room when I'm I think that would be a good description of your shows that you're like you've laughed you're entertained and you're exhausted yeah for sure for sure draining draining three stars yeah but draining in the best possible way like I would say think that a lot of people go home and cry after your show i feel like that's happening right now with the material i'm doing so wait so your latest joke my latest joke yeah what do you love i i'm opening with uh i don't want to be negative but uh i don't think anything's ever going to get better ever again and the kind of laugh it gets it's so so like, they're like, finally, someone's saying it out loud.

I just say like in the next chapter of the pandemic, I wonder what we'll be like. Yeah. I got COVID the old fashioned way. Making out with a really hot guy in a car. Yeah. Seriously. You did that? Yeah.

And now I have like a minus two Uber rating, but that's why I call it. Oh my. Did you get it? I did. Before the vax or's why I call it. Oh my. Did you get it? I did. Before the Vax or after? I got it post Vax. I mean, Vax Vax booster. Oh, that's good.

But it was not bad at all. Yeah. It was annoying though. Felt weird, didn't it? I was so relieved that I got it and that it wasn't bad and that I literally ran to a comedy club because I have not done standup. Really, during the last two years. So once not done standup really during, you know,

the last two years. So once you tested out of the COVID, you're like, I can go now. But the gift of it was like, I run to the stage now and I didn't, you know, you know how you go through phases with standup. It's like, I don't want to. I know. But then for me, it's exactly how I process my life. Like it's like having a therapist and not having had that and also not having that like

connection to other human beings where you're seeing them affected by what you say. And it's relatable. So now I've literally run to the stage. And thanks to you, I did perform at the comedy store. Yeah, and I think you psyched yourself out. But you got to admit that the room was pretty good, right? I think you scared me. I thought I was going to be injected with heroin the minute I walked in the room.

Because you used to talk about it so much about how much drugs were there and how dark it was. No, it's beautiful. And each room is so nice. You're just like, I want to play in that room and I want to play in that room. I'm glad you had a good experience. No, I did. But you know what? It's good. When was the last time you were nervous during standup? Well, that's a good question. I don't know if I get nervous because my brain automatically shifts into how am I going to handle this? It's not like I'm scared. It's sort of like if I'm in a room where I can tell the sound isn't great or I'm not going to get the feedback, I'm not going to hear it in the way I want to hear it in order to time myself properly. Like some rooms like I like, for instance, I was at the Palace of Fine Arts in San Francisco, and I didn't realize I'd been there before. It's a sweet room, but it's very wide.

Up by the park? Yeah. Yeah. But, like, you can't hear the audience that great, you know? So you're doing these jokes, and they feel in your mind like they're maybe falling a little flat. And so I don't get nervous about that. It's more like angry. So I have to just deal with the fact, like, all right, so this is what I'm going to be dealing with.

I've gotten professional around it. I get afraid only when I'm doing a gig that I don't want to do or that I feel like the accommodations aren't correct for the performance. Like I didn't do any of these outdoor shows. I wouldn't do it during the pandemic. Oh, I was like in elevators and parking lots. I'm like, is the mic on? We just start talking. You did those? Oh, I did them all. See, like I wouldn't do it during the pandemic. Oh, I was like in elevators and parking lots. I'm like, is the mic on? We just start talking. You did those?

Oh, I did them all. See, like I wouldn't do. I actually thought during the pandemic, like maybe I'm better. Maybe I'm all better. I don't need to do stand up anymore. But it was only because no one else was doing it. But as soon as someone else started doing it, I was like, all right, game on. Okay.

So what is your actual purpose when you think about doing stand up? What is it? It's a good question because it's certainly not entertaining people you have legions of fans you're obviously entertaining them but you're somehow i think it's really it's like being heard establishing a connection you know looking at things i like getting laughs because i know that people have never thought of it that way right so it's i just i'm kind of purist with the stand-up. I don't really see myself as an entertainer,

but I see myself as a guy who thinks about things, and I'm excited that there are certain people that like the way I think. So would you say you're more of a George Carlin? I guess so. Yeah. I'm less anal than him. I don't prepare as much as him. I don't write as much as him in the same way.

And so when people leave your shows, how have you changed them? Well, I think like I did something like there's a line I'm doing tonight, like lately, because I'm starting to talk a little more frankly about, you know, what I see is going on in the world. So I'm going to have to do it because I can get pretty heavy. So the balance I have to really achieve is that I if I bring people into that place where they're exhausting right because of how I have to figure out how to relieve that occasionally right but that's a bigger laugh because you've taken them deeper

right but then I have to say like I don't even like my tone right now I say it's not even it's a character I'm working on it's called me half the time see I think though that I didn't realize that there would be ageism in stand-up. But now I'm just determined because when I first started, people were like, oh, women would always say to me, oh, that's what I was thinking, but I didn't say. I don't know if you remember this, but I used to talk about sex all the time and the female perspective on it as opposed to just the male perspective. And now I just want to keep doing it because I refuse to not have like women's voices be heard that's my thing well i think they're like the hardest part

for what we do especially when people know us from when we're younger like i was fortunate like i didn't people didn't really give a fuck about me until i was in my 40s like i just lucked out with cosmic timing and having a skill set but like i think for people that were popular when people were in their 20s and all your audience was in their 20s, that once those people become 40, their lives are completely different. They're not even going to clubs anymore. They don't even know what stand-up is anymore.

Right. If you really think about Attell and stuff, who's one of the best comics in the world. The king. Yeah, he had this huge following when he had Insomniac on. But you've got to figure, a lot of the fans are now 40, 45 45 can you get them back out to a club are they still thinking in the same way they used to think right so it's very hard to uh to age with an audience

yeah you know because they go away well it's weird for me because the majority of people know me from sabrina which is in like its fourth iteration like it's crazy like eight-year-olds will come up and know and recognize me from it yeah and then people who i find way too old tell me that they grew up watching it i'm like you have no hair there's just not a chance that we've been through the whole hair follicle cycle in one career because it doesn't seem that long ago to me i see people that watch me on short attention span theater and they're in their 40s and i'm like what were you 12 i know short attention span theater do you know that my i don't know if this happened to you but my nephew um got i hired him to convert my early career oh yeah and digitize it yeah because it was the first commercial i

ever did this is going to make me feel 100 yeah was to introduce atm machines that was that i did that commercial look at this wonderful new modern technology where you can get money it's a bank no machine and again and i remember when like um the basically the internet happened and we were all like it's never gonna last i know i did a joke about that on my 95 hbo half hour that did not age well i said the internet yeah cb radios were real popular at once too um do you have any fear of being canceled by anything you say no you know I'm not really I mean I'm relatively responsible about what I say and I'm not you know I definitely am I can be a pretty dirty boy but I you know I don't um I hate that there's a fear that I don't want to feel like and you can see it like people

like literally because everything is recorded and then extracted and then edited and anything can look bad. I've made adjustments. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like I've said things that, and then I've gotten it fortunate for me, you know, I'm not like some international star that's under the microscope. Well, apparently you are in Scandinavia.

Yeah. But my, my audience are, they're relatively grown up people. It's not right. You know, and I've gotten I've made jokes where like I did a joke where an Asian person reached out to me and she was offended. And over time, I realized like, OK, well, maybe even if I'm saying I'm telling a story about a guy who I encountered who was racist and did the Japanese voice, you know, like that, that's still offensive. And I understand that. Like, you know, because like, even with like, even with saying things sometimes, even if you're saying it in a context that you think is a correct, you're still getting some sort of juice from saying it. You know, it's almost a way to say the bad thing.

So you can kind of feel the excitement to say the bad thing so you can kind of feel the excitement of staying the bad thing without taking responsibility for it but i've corrected stuff around the trans community i've corrected stuff in that that joke that asian thing and i i've certainly corrected my attitude about the word retard and about you know because i really tried to to make that work and explain it and you know and i've definitely had experiences where audience it was different it might have been a little pre twitter or pre this culture that we live in but when people have comment you know i'll i'll take it to heart and i'll think about it and and i've been wrong and i'll not do it yeah you know but

if i don't feel like i'm wrong you you know, like on my last special, like I did a thing about Mike Pence, you know, blowing Jesus and assuming that Mike Pence is a closeted homosexual that actually offended some people within the homosexual community because they're like, we don't want him. Why? Why pathologize homosexuality? You know, why? Why?

Right. Why is that guy the way he is? Because he's secretly a gay right as opposed to just horrible and i understood that but i made an i said well i understand that but i'm still going to do this joke yeah and i did it and i didn't get well i know but that at that time at that point you're not you who are you doing the joke for that i did on my netflix special no i know but i'm saying who are you doing it for if if it was funny to you like when when somebody explained stand up to me they were like you will never ever ever walk in a room with 500 people and they all have your point of view and

your perspective right but you will tell a story so well and so that they will and so clearly that they will see it through your eyes and that's why you're making them laugh because it's funny to you yeah i don't like i think a lot of people like there there's a lot of people out there that want to you know fuel and start controversy you know on social media platforms but i think a lot of times when somebody says something inappropriate and and that you know the only there's no censorship and there's a fear of of repercussions but you know you got to choose what you're going to do like if you can say whatever you want but you're sort of self-censoring yourself so what yeah we all self-censor every fucking day that's how civilization works yeah you're right otherwise there would be car accidents and people screaming at each other

all the times but that but that's sort of happening no it's true we are we have to modify what you don't want to say something that's going to hurt people's feelings and at one time it didn't hurt their feelings and now it does so you make the adjustment so you're in a relationship with the audience that's what you're doing yes and with the culture yes you know what i mean i know it's hard to let go of you know the whatever it is i never want to hurt anybody's feelings believe me i'm like looking at an audience and going okay i never i think i did want to hurt people's feelings at one time i think i felt like that was a way of connecting and it is it's like oh look i made you cry you must like me what was the ultimate shift that you went from being that to who you are now this cat

is freaking me out why is the one eye so much that's actually my old cat the one eye's different color than the other that's some old cat a fan of mine made that it's lafonda who's no longer with us and lafonda actually had two different color eyes but um how are they able mine made that it's La Fonda who's no longer with us and La Fonda actually had two different color eyes but how are they able to make this it's like a plastic toy from China yeah some people work in plastic wow there's a lot of artists around what made the shift I don't know I think that a lot of my anger was just really about defensiveness fear insecurity not really knowing who I was or how to be me and I think that over time the podcast enabled me to sort of be who I am in a very broad way so I can be myself like for years that you

know people would try to box me somehow like you know he's the angry guy he's this guy I didn't know who the fuck I was I was honestly angry yeah it wasn't a character so I've never really been able what were you angry about I was just scared man and I've never really been able to. What were you angry about? I was just scared, man. And I was defensive and I wanted to be righteous somehow. I wanted to do the kind of comedy that was provocative. Right. And I wanted to push the envelope. Like Sam Kinison?

I don't know if it was like Sam because I, you know, he. Like first time on stage and you're discovering yourself. Were you that guy? No. No. Who were you? More Woody Allen-ish probably. Really? Yeah. yeah i mean like my heroes when i was a kid like i was doing jokes i was sort of like that there was a joke i did about you know uh you know it was i can't remember like

if you have sex you'll get aids if you smoke you but if you don't wear your seat bike it was some sort of like i was always sort of trying to do socially relevant stuff but when i did stand up in college for the first time it it was a little more Jewish and a little more whatever. But it wasn't me. So how old were you when you went on stage? I started doing stand up, I think, a bit. I put together an act with Steve Brill when I was in college.

I think I went on stage 60, 73, 83. I was probably 20 the first time I went on stage in college. And was it like the life stream? No, it was terrible. No, no. But when you were a kid, like when I was seven, I was like I went on stage in Colobus. And was it like the life stream? No, it was terrible. No, no, but when you were a kid, like when I was seven, I was like, I want to be Carol Burnett and Johnny Carson. That was it. No, I loved stand-ups.

Yeah. So that was it. You wanted to be a stand-up. Yeah. I didn't know how one did it, but like I loved it. But I was terrified for probably up until a couple of years ago. What was the first comedy album that you ever owned? I feel like it must have been george carlin's class clown

okay probably mine was steve martin's oh get let's get small yeah and then i had cheech and chongs yeah and then i had some uh i think we had uh uh a prior at some point i think i prior's greatest hits at some point there was a lot of carlin records around first i used to watch carson and i would always know what the punchline was going to be. I could hear the joke. And it's funny to me that you have six guitars, because stand-up to me is music. Do you agree with that? Or you have seven?

For me, it eventually becomes that. There's a rhythm to it. I get that. I understand that. It's not quite like that for me. No, you have a different... You're more like a poet in a way. Yeah, I think that's true. You don't have a traditional... Things become jokes, but I don't have a different, you're more like a poet in a way. Yeah, I think that's true. You don't have a traditional.

Things become jokes, but I don't have a singular rhythm. No. Because if you listen to like you or Dave, like there's definitely a rhythm to all. It just keeps moving in this rhythm. And I think a lot of joke tellers, the good ones have that. Jimmy Carr. Jimmy Carr is so funny. Yeah.

I mean, but like that's straight. Like I could never do that stuff. Like I don't have the control. No, I don't know. I'm much more storytelling now than I have jokes. Yeah. And my I like to like you'll see tonight since you've been kind enough to ask me to come do a set.

But like I like take what happened in my life and then it becomes a joke. And that's where I process. It's like a little pricey of what it is. You always did that, though. Yeah. though yeah yeah i mean you're saying you're going a little more in detail yeah well i guess i'm more storytelling i don't know yeah but so mine is such a desperate need to connect with people that's the underlying thing i'm i have to stop myself because dana gould who i think is brilliant never goes to the audience he brings them all to him yeah and i will go to the audience upon arriving on the stage

Like I am yeah, that's interesting observation because yeah, I see people do that I think I used to be desperate for that and but always like it always made people uncomfortable No, but you always went to the guy in an angry way I remember you would be like doing your act and then if somebody didn't like you you would like almost verbally abuse them Yeah, yeah, but but like even when I used to do Conan I'd you know I'd really be excited and I'd really think that I was going to nail it out of the gate and never did.

It always fell flat. You know what? I did Conan, I think, 35 times. What did you do it? Like 50 times? Yeah. Yeah. And I adore him.

Yeah. The panel you could nail, but it was, that's just a hard, it never felt like you were killing it on standup. Even Letterman, it never felt like you were, like I were... They feel a little far away in both of these stories. Yeah, because in Conan, they're in boxes. You're literally on stage, there's a couple of boxes of people that are up on top. And with Letterman, it was a theater,

but in between you and the people, it was cameras and people. Yeah. What was the greatest set that you had that actually you thought changed the whole direction of your career? I think you look at that 95 hbo half hour where i decided to tell that jerry garcia story like i think that became i didn't know i was going to do it but i had been doing a lot of you know luna lounge stuff right and i didn't really plan that

that was my big idea it's like just riff it you know just you don't have to have a set for your hbo half hour like a fucking idiot but right in the middle of it i do this long story about seeing jerry garcia and i think that was kind of and people remember that thing they know that thing right and i think that really became the direction of of how i started to do stand-up yeah before i did um i wasn't supposed to be on comic relief and at the last minute they put me on so much so that I when I was I followed um oh my god what's his name and he's married uh that's a big okay that is really bad oh I know Bill and he's married to Felicity yeah Bill Macy Macy Bill Macy William Macy yeah anyway I was I was out, and William Macy, I said, oh, I'm sorry. I was right behind him as he went to the stage, and I said, oh, I'm following you.

And he goes, he turns around, and he goes, why are you following me? And I go, well, that's just the order that they put us on. Yeah. He had no idea I was a stand-up. Yeah. And then from there, that night, I got proposed to. Milos Forman was in the audience. Yeah.

He cast me in Man on the moon and i got put on um hollywood squares all from that one night what year was that uh 1921 wow yeah it was a good year yeah but how did you like because like we were doing all the same shows you know like mtv a half hour evening the improv all that shit so how did sabrina happen well you know what's really funny they had um come to see me uh carsey warner i think yeah they were coming to see me and the martins are managers yeah put brett on as well yeah and brett got grace under fire from that really yes and then i when i got i got Sabrina, this is how funny it was. I had been in Hawaii.

This is how long ago it was. There were no camera phones, right? Yeah. Because I said, we broke up before the pictures were developed. Yeah. And I had a Polaroid. And he was smelly and disgusting. And I don't know why I ever went out with that guy.

Anyway, the Martins passed on it. On Sabrina. Yeah. So the night before. Yeah. I got a call saying, are you sure you won't go in on the show? And I'm like- You didn't even hear about it. Yeah. I said, what are you talking about?

And she said, yeah, your manager's passed on it. I go, I've never even heard of it. And this is how long ago it was. They faxed me the script. It was in curled pages. I had to go across the street and like and like pick it up anyway yeah

so that was 96 and then I got that and that's when you didn't speak to me for a few years because I was jealous yes because you told me I said Mark

why are we not friends anymore like because I'm jealous and bitter and you're on TV and I'm not wow but you were straightforward and honest

the funny thing is I was doing everything I could to never get on television and it was working but like I don't like what would anyone would have forward and honest. The funny thing is, I was doing everything I could to never get on television. And it was working. But like, I don't, like,

what would anyone, would have, thank God I was unique enough to keep being carried by, you know, stand-up. You know, like,

I would get stand-up shows and stuff. You have a very well-earned success. Yeah, I'll say. Okay, most people would have been more gracious with a compliment,

but that's an interesting twist. I'll say! Fucking right! Yeah, took him forever an interesting twist. I'll say, fucking right. Yeah, took him forever to get me. Exactly. Yeah. Took me forever to get me. No, I thank you.

That's very nice of you to say. So Sabrina, despite me being angry about it, but that was like the hugest thing. It's the biggest gift in the world. And you did it for how many years? I did it for six years. And people loved you. But it's still on the air. It's on the air. It's been on the air

every single day since like 1999. What are the royalty checks like now? A dollar. I literally got notified. It said, we have deposited

.06 cents into your account. I was like, oh, well, thank you very much. Call me when you get to a dollar. Do you still talk to the kid? I do.

I talk to all of them. I'm going to see them next week and we're doing a 90s reunion for what like people who were on tv in the 90s is it going to be televised no it's going to be like a private event a fun event i rarely do that it's not a vh1 show thank you yeah um i rarely do them but i used to get upset because there were people who i thought why are you spending this money that you obviously need in order just to say hello to us? But sports fans go to sports games. It's really sweet, these kids that grew up with you.

So this is an event. Yeah, it's an event. And people come. Yeah. Where is it? In Hartford, Connecticut. Really? Yeah, and we're all going.

So what other shows? Is it just Sabrina? No, it's... I've never heard of these. So they're like nostalgia shows. So you'd sign stuff. Yes. You hang out.

But the fact that you used the word nostalgia, I need to find something sharp to impale myself with. Because, I mean, what? God. Yeah. You know, nostalgia. Yeah. Why don't you just call it an antique show?

It's an antique show where people look at collectible old, old things like coins from the Parthenon from, you know. Yeah. Look, here's Pluto's diary and a picture of Caroline Ray. How much is this stuff worth? I don't know, because every time anybody goes to pay i'm like oh here you go yeah no you don't have to yeah sorry what other shows um i think boy meets world uh-huh which was a big one because daniel fishel who's with japanga who i love she's i don't know there's a lot of 90s

people there that's wild it was gonna be what your voice you're like oh that's wild no i never knew it happened but i know there's comic-con there's all these different it's like that yeah i know i get it i only realized the cons did for convention i'm not kidding it was just recently no i'm not kidding a grift no i didn't know what it was people hustling exactly it's a con yeah wait sometimes i think i'm so quick and then other times i'm so like the fact that our last name was spellman yeah thought we were jewish had no idea it was a witch thing until season four. Not kidding. Really? Yeah. I just thought we were Jewish witches. Well, I mean, a lot of people believe that about Jews. Yeah. It's actually an

anti-Semitic show. No, it's not! I'm kidding. Relax. You're not on the payroll anymore, really. Thank you. So, all right. Let's talk again. Not again, but let's... I have to go in five minutes, and I know you've talked to me way too long. Where are you going? I have to go in five minutes and I know you've talked to me way too long where are you going?

I have an appointment where? can you give me a ride to the Toyota place? yes okay where is it? it's on brand

it's like five minutes yes we have to go soon okay let me just ask you about the talk show okay in a minute yeah what happened

it was a weird experience what happened with that? well the talk show was you know what this is how I look at my life the talk show was you know what this is how i look at my life the talk show this is how my experience is it's never the thing right in front of you it's the thing right beside it that you're supposed to be excited about yeah so i thought the talk show was going to be like the biggest thing yeah but what happened was it got canceled and i called my agent

and said i want to go on the road and i wanted to stand up that i remember that that's when we became friends again okay and then thank you and i literally called and i was helping this girl who basically needed time so i was taking her on the road and who was that uh her name was lamare yeah and she was a comedian and you know like you know you have to take them on the road when they need stage time right yeah so i i was you you only get to be a great comic not with your five minute set but when you have a 10 minute set and you have five minutes of material yeah and then you let the channel of wherever it's coming from go through you and you trust it yeah and all being a stand-up is it's like the longer you do it the more you trust it because it's not a tangible gift we can't wake up in the morning

and practice our stand-up yeah some people we can well no but it's not like you can weld right you know what i mean it's it's intangible what we do yeah it comes from something right how many episodes of the show did you oh my god of what the talk show yeah a year uh i don't know 300 i remember like it was all it looked all good and it looked like it fit you i know yeah anyway i went on the road i and and the punchline said we can't we haven't i said i'm bringing this girl and said no we booked this guy he's like a local hero he's headlining and then he's willing to feature for you on the weekend yeah and i was like what's his name he's like kastaki akadamopoulos and then as soon as i met him i literally said to him the first thing i'm like oh you're all shiny yeah and uh and why, as far as I'm concerned,

every rejection in the world was worth it to meet him because I had my daughter. Yeah. So that's what I'm saying. The talk show was just, if it hadn't been canceled, I wouldn't have her. Sure.

If I wasn't fired and gotten divorced, I wouldn't have made the podcast. Exactly. As opposed to kill myself. Right. I understand. Exactly. Those are your choices.

Podcast was much better for everyone yeah but uh here's another thing i remember just given that you and i yes somehow or another weren't we on short attention span theater together at some point i don't think so i was john stewart another jew that that you know um so no it was between me and patty rossborough for that right and i have the original footage of me doing it because I did it about five times. You're probably great at that. Yeah. I looked like Diane Sawyer, like I was presenting the real news.

I was the biggest nerd. I had like my astronaut wife hairdo. I know. But that was your bit. Yeah, I know. Okay. Okay. You, like we went for some reason, you and I went to Norm MacDonald's hotel room on the night of his first Letterman,

and we watched it with him. He laid on the bed with his face down in the pillow, and you and I stood there in that room. Okay. I was at Letterman with him. Right. Were you there, too? No. But I don't know.

Somehow, maybe you came to a club or something. Norm MacDonald was one of the three men in my life who told me I had a great ass. Oh, yeah. Of all the men. Poor Norm. Do you remember that? I remember it. I remember going to his hotel room because you must have gone to the show.

And then for some reason- I called you. Called me or maybe you went to a club and you said, well, I'm going up to Norm's hotel room to watch it. And we watched it together. Yeah. But he didn't watch it. He had his face. He was laying on the bed.

Because Norm was sick. He had stomach issues all the way back then he was he didn't want to watch himself yes but he didn't want to watch himself that's exactly i have a picture of me watching myself on conan the first time how did you look i look you know i looked young mark i can watch myself now a little easier i can't't. I cannot watch myself on anything. Oh my God, it's torture. I used to not be able to, but now I'm so like, that's something. I literally, I have a new franchise of movies on the Hallmark Channel called It's Mrs. Miracle. You do? Yeah.

We just did one, A Mrs. Miracle Christmas. Doris Roberts played Mrs. Miracle. Uh-huh. And I remember being in Toronto. You're the producer? No, I'm on it. Okay. I'm Mrs. Miracle. I'm the producer. I remember being in Toronto. You're the producer? No, I'm on it. Okay. I'm Mrs. Miracle.

I'm the producer. Excuse me, confidence sucker. What are you talking about? I'm the gaffer. I'm the best boy on the show and I just wanted to bring it up. I do lighting, but only for the extras.

What does the gaffer do? Is he the lighter? I never know what any of them do. Anyway, you're not getting a ride to town. If you don't, let me finish. So, oh, anyway, I watched the movie and I was like, oh my God, my mother was fantastic in that movie.

Yeah. I was like, when did that happen? But that's, was that good work? It was great. I love it. But it's this other- I play an angel. What's this cartoon you do forever?

Phineas and Ferb? Yeah. No, Candace, the boys are not building a rocket ship. Would anyone like pie? Where's Perry? But it's a greatace, the boys are not building a rocket ship. Would anyone like pie? Where's Perry? But it's a great gig, right? It's the greatest gig. I mean, that's just on in syndication.

That's Disney? Yeah. But you do a lot of family stuff. It's nice, right? I do. It's very nice. Yeah. I do a lot of family stuff and you do a lot of, you know.

I don't know what I'm doing. I don't know. I talk to people and- You talk to Keith Richards and have him give you hats life is good the weird thing is I'm pressing for the hat that's the fucked up thing

about the hat story is that like it wasn't passing I've now told the publicist and the person that works for Keith that I want to know where Patty

and Alexandria whichever daughter found the hat I want to know the website of the hat no you want Keith Richards to send you his hat that Patty got you that's what you want but that's not gonna happen hat. No, you want Keith Richards to send you his hat. The patty got you. That's

what you want. That's not going to happen. That's what you're asking for. Nice talking to you. I love you. I love you too. Caroline. Hi. Hi. Caroline. Hi. The show is LOL. Last One Laughing Canada.

It's on Prime Video, comedy competition show. She'll be doing stand-up here and there. Got to get her back out there. I put her up at Largo on my show. Very fun. Always funny. She needs it, man. She needs the laughs, you guys. It took me so long just to do this lick that I barely could pull off.

It's not even that complicated. It doesn't matter. It's nice. It's pleasant. guitar solo guitar solo Boomer lives. Monkey and La Fonda. Cat angels everywhere. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category.

And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. This episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative.

It's a night for the whole family. Be a part of Kids Night when the Toronto Rock take on the Colorado Mammoth at a special 5 p.m. start time on Saturday, March 9th at First Ontario Centre in Hamilton. The first 5,000 fans in attendance will get a Dan Dawson bobblehead courtesy of Backley Construction. Punch your ticket to Kids Night on Saturday, March 9th at 5pm in Rock City