WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1313 - Keith Richards

Episode Date: March 14, 2022

It's been almost seven years since Marc smoked a cigarette with Keith Richards in a radio studio in New York City. Since then, Keith gave up smoking, continued to tour with the Rolling Stones, released multiple new albums including a blues record, and is now re-issuing his solo album Main Offender. Marc and Keith catch up on all of that and also talk about the passing of Keith's friend and bandmate Charlie Watts. Also, Marc revisits his full conversation with Keith from 2015. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Punch your ticket to Kids Night on Saturday, March 9th at 5 p.m. in Rock City at torontorock.com. Lock the gates! I'm tired. Can you hear the tired? I'm tired. I've been out. I've been out doing it. I've been out doing the road on my own, living the life. A lot of reflecting, but it was a great week away. It was almost a week. What day is today? Monday? So I left last Tuesday. It was the real deal, man. Driving to one-nighters, just like the old days. But great shows. Before I tell you about that, let's set this up.

Let's set it up. Keith Richards is on the show today. Now, I talked to him last week on Zoom for like 15, 20 minutes. I loved it. It was great. But I really thought going into that talk that I would be less of a fanboy than I was in 2015, which I just was, I was beside myself. Really, honestly, beside myself, like almost out of body experience. It turns out none of that has changed.

Right when I got him on Zoom and I saw him, I just lit up and it was just, I think the way that i kept my shit together a little bit was like i think i busted his balls just a little bit just a little just get a couple laughs a couple laughs at old kefers but uh we decided that why not just run the one from 2015 too so what we're going to do is we're going to do the new one and then we're going to run the old one because many of you haven't heard that and if even if you have heard it, you probably want to listen to it again. That's what I'm just saying. Sorry if my speech is weird.

I'm tired and I think I might have a tumor in my head. So that's happening. Keith is happening. Big Keith Day today. But what a week, man. I did all the road things. I did the shows. I did the shame.

I did it. I did the road things. Drove for miles, hours. I flew into New York, rented a car on Tuesday night, drove to New Haven, checked into the hotel at like 11 at night. Got up in the morning, coffeed up, went down the street to the Yale Gallery of Art, spent some time with some Rothko's and some other paintings. Then I met up with a friend of mine, Dean Falcone, who was a pizza guy and a music guy. So we went and ate at Pepe's Pizza.

He had a crew of people there. Some guy owned a bagel place, a cousin who wrote a book about pizza. We'd gone to Sally's the last time, Pepe's. We sat there, we ate like 90 pizzas, a clam pizza, a white pizza, a sausage pizza, a margarita pizza, another kind of pizza. Then the other thing, all pizza. I don't think I'll ever be able to eat pizza again. So that

night with a belly full of pizza and Italian pastry, I did a show in New Haven at College Street and it was great. Great show. It was the first one that I, since New York, where I'm just, I'm not doing openers. And I did it in New Haven. It was great. I that I, since New York, where I'm just, I'm not doing openers. And I did it in New Haven. It was great. I must've done, I think I'd done like an, I did like an hour and 35. Everyone was happy. Great show. Great venue. Good people to work with. Nice audience. Saw Brian Jones, the potter up there. Then I crash out in New Haven, get up the next day and I got a drive to Troy, New York. Now, Troy, New York, I've been to all these places, actually, except for Laconia, New Hampshire. But I played the

music hall in Troy once before. Every time I go to Troy, it's such a beautiful old city. Same with Albany. There's part of me that's like, I want to move here. These are cool old buildings. But then what happens then? I just become like the guy who lives in Troy. Isn't that Mark Maron? Why does he live here now? I don't know. He did a gig here and then he never left. It's kind of weird. We were happy to have him at first, but now he just kind of moves around from coffee shop to coffee shop talking to himself. We checked. He's not talking. He doesn't have ear pods in. But I actually did see an old comic there, Ross Bennett, who actually does live up in Troy with another comic who I think, I don't know if they're married or not, but he came to the show.

Nonetheless, the musical is a magic place. It was built in the mid-1800s. There's a rack for a top hat under each chair. There's a shawl, little shelf, not shelf, what would you call it? The towel rack, like a shawl rack on the back of each chair. It's wild. It's definitely timeless. Someone should do a steampunk show there of some kind. but I'd been there before and it was magic. Then there's

perfect acoustics in the place. And I think I did like an hour and 40, maybe hour 45. I don't know, but it was a great show. A lot of new things happened. Every show was different. Every show was just me. And then, uh, I ate at a place I ate at Nighthawks because the guy who owns the place had told me to come. It was good. And then the next day, I got up early and I drove from Troy to Laconia, New Hampshire. But I stopped at Mass MoCA first, which is that massive museum of contemporary art out there in North Adams. Amazing. The Mass MoCA is this huge space.

It's many different industrial buildings that have been made into this museum. So a lot of the art there are installations, things that only happen there and only happen for a period of time. And there's many of them. I can't name all of them, but they're all kind of mind-blowing. What a spectacular way to spend like two or three hours. Just blew my mind. I did realize though that art doesn't give a fuck about you. You've got to go out and get it. You've got to go get the art. You've got to go get it. And I didn't even know why I didn't realize this when I dated a painter for years. It's an insulated world, and they're playing to the back of the room a lot of times. They're only concerned about themselves and about how it's going to be received by critics and by people in the art world. It's going to be received by critics and by people in the art world. So you got to realize that there's a certain language to it all. But you just got to let it go in there and let it, as I say, punch you in the brain.

And if it's good, it'll stay punched. And mine got punched the fuck out at MASH Mocha. So then I continue on. I leave MASH Mocha and I'm going to Laconia. Dunkin' Donuts all the way. Every day, Dunk' Donuts coffee jacked out of my mind. And I started to spiral on the way to Laconia because at the beginning of my career, I did one-nighters. That's how I learned how to do comedy. I drive all over the New England area, whether it was New Hampshire, Vermont, Maine, England area, whether it was New Hampshire, Vermont, Maine, upstate New York, Mass, Western Mass, Rhode Island. There was just, it never, Connecticut, there were just gigs, one-nighters that you would go do. And they were always, because of the time in my life and what I was

trying to do, they were always pretty horrendous in a way, always kind of terrible. I was just this neurotic, angry Jewish guy running around to these pubs and bowling alleys and motel and hotel ballrooms and just regular bars and dance clubs that had comedy nights, learning how to do comedy. So it was weird as I was driving around the interstates and rural highways in New England to these gigs at theaters, around the interstates and rural highways in New England to these gigs at theaters, they became sort of the neural pathways leading back to the trauma that I experienced starting out in this business. And as I got closer to Laconia and the more barns I drove past, I started to sort of flashback and spiral into that place where I'm like, this is going to suck. How the fuck is this going to be good? How many barns am I going to drive by? I mean, I was enjoying the barns in moments,

but I was also like, where the fuck am I going? I even texted my agent like, you know, what the fuck kind of gig is this? Where's the cone? Everything that I did when in the late 80s, when I started doing gigs, I was doing, I had come full circle. But this was not connected to anything. It wasn't real. Fear and anxiety from the old mark, from the old days. And I had to reel it in, man. It was wild. Because it was full circle.

I was driving to one-nighters. I was staying at hotels, which usually I didn't do back in the day. But I got to Laconia, and it's this beautiful little redone theater the Colonial uh they just opened they've had a few comedy shows there I think Jimmy Norton was there and I think Whitney's going there and it was great again there's three restaurants in the town and you know a couple coffee shops there's a record store with a bar but uh but the audience was great everyone's. A lot of people haven't been out since COVID. I think I did like an hour 40, something like that there, hour 45

and I enjoyed it but I was nervous. I knew there was gonna be a snowstorm in Vermont and I started to panic. I wouldn't get out of Vermont on Sunday. I knew that it was supposed to snow all day Saturday so I got up at six in the morning after Laconia and I drove to get ahead of the storm and I did, it was raining

but by the time I got to the interstate, it just started snowing. And then it started coming down harder. And then it was like really kind of blizzarding. And then the road got slick. And I haven't seen snow in years. I used to live in snow all the time, years and years of snow.

And it was annoying, but I always liked it. But I hadn't seen it in years. It was very exciting to drive in the snow. I had rented an SUV so I could pull it off. By the time I got to Burlington, it was like, there was like a lot of fucking snow on the ground. They let me check into the hotel early. I saw some friends. And I ate with a pal at Hen of the Woods.

Amazing restaurant. Sludging through the snow in boots that weren't correct for the snow, trying not to slip and break a hip. But the Flynn Center, I guess I got about 600 people in there or so. And I did like almost two hours, hour and 50 minutes, riffing,

doing the straight comedy stuff, doing performance stuff. I don't know. Every night that I did the solo thing without an opener, it felt like I was doing a play. It was amazing. I loved it. All the audiences were great. On the last night there in Burlington, some kid says, you remind me of my father, but I don't like him. I like you though. That's what he said. All the people were great. I did pay a little tribute. I think it might have been in Laconia because it was on my mind, the spiraling out from the old days that I did a little memorial, a little eulogy for Teddy Bergeron, who was a Boston comic. That was around when I was working there when I started out.

A real character. He was really kind of a mythic guy. He was one of the first out of Boston to do Letterman and Carson. And he had a big future ahead of him, but he also had terrible alcoholism within him. And he was constantly at battle with that and with himself and with success. But he always had swagger. No matter how pathetic it got, Teddy always had swagger and he had great jokes. Great jokes.

Jokes that if I listen to now are still hilarious dark jokes about himself about his father beautifully crafted jokes he didn't have i don't know how much he wrote really and i don't know how much he worked because i wasn't around but we did a live wtf at the wilbur and i had to find somebody that would find him somebody had to tell me that i had to call another teddy who was his cousin Teddy to get the other Teddy. And I didn't know if Teddy Bergeron was going to show up at the Wilbur. This was like in 2013, a live one. We used to do live ones.

There's a bunch of other Boston comics on the panel. And, you know, Teddy shows up with his ever red hair and he's wearing sweats and he's antsy. And he's like i said well you good he goes yeah i'm great you know i'll just riff with you mark and i'm like okay that sounds good i get out there and it's teddy's turn and and he fucking killed and i was sitting right next to him watching it happen and it was glorious it was great it was a great experience to watch teddy kill with that old act, that good act, those dark-ass jokes for a crowd that didn't know who he was.

And it was just really a beautiful thing. Really was a beautiful thing. Right now, it's my pleasure to bring on a guy that is legendary. He's one of the funniest fucking guys that ever lived. I haven't seen him in about 20 years. I didn't know if he was still alive or he would make it even. When I used to see this guy wandering around town

when we were both drunks, I would show up in a room and he'd go, oh, look, the marinated man. The marinated man is here. Teddy Bergeron, ladies and gentlemen. Woo-hoo! Woo-hoo!

Oh, I love him. The marinated man. And you're doing well. I'm doing all right, Teddy Boston I love Boston Everybody loves Boston I'll be like on the road I'll be working in Texas Florida I mentioned I'm from Boston There's always someone Oh really, I'm from Boston too Absolutely, Teddy. I'll be like on the road. Yeah. I'll be working in Texas or Florida. Yeah.

I mentioned I'm from Boston. There's always someone, oh, really? I'm from Boston too. And I'm like, oh, really? What part? Maine. I'm fucking so glad to see you, man. It's good to see you, Mark. And I'm glad you're doing well.

Really? Yeah. I'm so surprised to see you, man. It's good to see you, Mark, and I'm glad you're doing well. I really am. Yeah? I'm so surprised. Not surprised. Okay. Anyway, look at the energy you bring here. Yeah, yeah. Because energy's important, Mark. Yeah, it is. You know bring here. Yeah, yeah. Because energy is important, Mark.

Yeah, it is. You know that in comedy, in life. Yes. Life is, we live in a duality. It's positive, negative energy. Yeah, right. Back and forth, we fight with it. Yeah.

Happens to me. I see a woman. Yeah. Positive energy. She wants me. Yeah. Then the negative energy comes in. Well, what a beautiful woman like her.

What would somebody like you? Yeah. Then the positive returns. in. What would a beautiful woman like her want with somebody like you? Then the positive returns. Maybe she's an idiot. Because negative energy is no good for comedy. We're in that theater district. Peter Pan, they play, I saw the sign. I want to see Peter Pan on Broadway. There's always some guy in the crowd that doesn't want anybody to have fun, right?

Okay? And all the kids are excited. And Sandy Duggan played Peter. She took a bow and she flew above the crowd. And all the kids are like, oh, look at her fly, look at her fly. There's always that jerk in the back and a deep voice. She's on a wire!

She's not flying, she's on a wire. There's no Santa Claus and she's on a wire. No, she's flying. She's not flying, she's on a wire. There's no Santa Claus and she's on a wire. No, she's flying. She's not a wire. It's going to break. She'll land on you, you'll die. How would you like to be an Olympic performer? They perform in front of those guys that never,

the sportscasters, they're a little negative, a little critical. Because you watch like a diver, and he's off the board, and he backflips into a double somersault, and he spins out of that to the left and right, upside down, triple cartwheel into the water, and you're like, wow! And you hear,

no, that's a shame. Oh, God, it's good to see you. I'm up for this moment. I heard you would do it. I got up for it. Yeah, I'm so fucking great. I had to track you down. You're not easy. You know, they have websites and phones now.

Well, actually, I got a pass for the night. Oh, okay. I talked to the doctor and they let me out for a couple of hours. You know what? I fucking believe that. I remember you used to talk about your father a lot.

Well, he had no... He was a negative guy, too. No faith in me. No kidding. Oh, my God. Christmas morning. What a happy time for a kid. I'd have my new toy.

I'd run across the room, show it to Daddy. And he'd smile and say, Let's see you bust it now. And I'd get all freaked out and dropped it, you know. No matter what. You know, I'd be at the dinner table. I'd ask for a glass of milk. Yeah, spill it all over the table.

He used to announce my Little League games. Oh, yeah, he did the play-by-play over the air. That was a lot of fun. There's a fly ball at deep center field. Going back for it to my son. Watch him drop it. He dropped it. Watch the little son of a bitch

He's gonna kick it around for half an hour And then throw it right into the fucking stand You're leading me into some good stuff You ever look at your horoscope? Oh my horoscope? Well I'm a cancer I'm a cancer that's Because you look at your horoscope? Oh, my horoscope? Well, I'm a Cancer. I'm a Cancer. That's, oh, because you look at the other ones. You know, Aquarius, take a vacation. You deserve it. This

is your year, you know. You know, Sagittarius, you've worked hard. You know, you should relax. Good things are happening for you. Cancer, buy a shotgun. Place your mouth over the barrel and pull the trigger. You owe it to yourself and your friend teddy bergeron ladies and gentlemen that was beautiful you feel good i had fun i love it all right my hometown love those jokes i still laugh at those jokes rest in peace teddy berger. You were the real deal, man. Okay, Keith Richards. So here's what we're doing.

This first chat I had with him last week on Zoom, it's about 15 to 20 minutes, and I got the opportunity to talk to him again because we did good the last time. He's re-releasing the main Offender album, which is his second solo album it's the 30th anniversary reissue it comes out this friday march 18th you can get it on all the streaming music platforms you can get it as a deluxe cd or vinyl release or as a super deluxe box set which includes unreleased live recordings an 88 page book, guitar picks, stickers, and more. And you can order that one

at Keith Richards.com. That's the one I got. It's fucking beautiful. And here's the deal. After this talk, the one I just did last week, we're going to go ahead and play the full 2015 interview I had with Keith in New York city. Now that was a, I couldn't, I was beside myself. I was literally almost out of my body with excitement and just joy to sit with one of my heroes. And I thought, you know, in the last six years, seven years that maybe I'd gotten my shit together, I'd grounded myself a little bit, I could be a little more professional. But you'll hear going into this interview that I did last week, that was not the case. Equally as excited. Only this time, I think I busted his balls a little bit.

I did try and get some laughs. Nothing more fun than making Keith Richards laugh. There's a few things more fun, but it's pretty great. It's pretty great. So this is me talking to Keith Richards last week on Zoom. It's hockey season, and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. week on Zoom. those are groceries and we deliver those too along with your favorite restaurant food alcohol and other everyday essentials order uber eats now for alcohol you must be legal drinking age please enjoy responsibly product availability varies by region see app for details hi it's terry o'reilly host of under the influence recently we created an episode on cannabis marketing with cannabis

legalization it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Hey.

How's it going? Good. How are you, man? Fine. How you been, man? It's good. I haven't talked to you in a while. You remember I talked to you a few years ago. I do. I do remember. How you been? I'm good. We shared a cigarette. Exactly. We were at the NPR studios and they were all freaking out because we were smoking.

I gave it up. Did you? Really? For real? It's a couple of years. Oh, my God. Do you feel you got to feel better, right? I actually I didn't notice anything, man, until until I started rehearsing for the Stones tour. And then I when I started working, I realized I had a lot more air in the lungs and in the voice and more stamina. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. You know, it, it ain't always cracked up to be, you know, what not smoking. Yeah. That other than the alternative man,

you know, sure. Sure. You want to try and stay on this side of the grass for as long as possible. Yeah. Yeah. I'm working on that.

Well, yeah, I'm sorry about your friend, man. I'm sorry about Charlie's terrible. Oh man. That was, uh Oh, man. That was a blow out of nowhere. Yeah, what a guy.

How do you deal with that? You've lost a lot of friends lately. You just deal with it? I don't know. It deals with you in a way. When that happens, the guys keep cropping up when you least expect them to start.

I had a couple of chats with Charlie, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Oh, that's nice. So you get a lot of people who bring you memories. Yeah. That's nice. You know, I saw you guys in Florida, I think the last American show. Oh, Miami.

Yeah, in Fort Lauderdale yeah oh yeah i was there i visited my mother and fran yeah you know i talked to fran i'm like i want to go see the guys and i went with my brother it was fucking great now i gotta ask you a question though uh so you know you go into midnight rambler and then all of a sudden unless i'm hallucinating you went into hellhounds on my trail. Is that right? We do through a bit of Robert Johnson. Yeah.

Yeah. Mick and I have been fiddling around with that just to sort of tail it off. You know, I couldn't believe it. I went out. I was out of my mind. I couldn't. I was the best thing because I mean, I wait for Midnight Rambler every time I see you guys. And all of a sudden you're doing Hellhounds on my trail.

And I'm like, what the fuck is happening it was great a little bit is always left sort of open you know and it's been going that way lately you know and you guys just come up with that yourself when you were rehearsing yeah it was just uh i think one time nick said something about hellhound on my trail and i played the lick and then we threw it in and said, well, man, that fits really nice. That was so good. And you played that, well, you put the capo on the seventh fret and just a regular tuning? Regular tuning. Regular tuning, seventh

fret, yeah. Yeah, I figured out how to play it finally. I got another question for you. Hold on. There's a little trick to it. Oh, yeah? Where? You see this? Can I have i have that hat oh that one yeah you want that one i got it around the corner i was like where the hell is he getting these beanies you know i don't know and

my daughters and wife get them off the i know online somewhere oh man that's all i know somewhere up there. Here's another thing I got. Hold on. You see this thing? That's that French photo show. Oh, yeah. That Dominique Tart.

Dominique Tart, yeah. Yeah, he was a friend of mine when we were cutting Exile. Right. Well, I don't know where I saw it or if somebody sent it to me, but I got the book from you know, from the gallery. And it's like a family album, for God's sakes. It should be called Parenting with Keith Richards. There's so many pictures of you and Marlon on the boat hanging around

and then you in the basement playing guitar. Yeah, that basement, man. You remember it? Oh, that basement, man. You remember it? Oh, very well, man. Yeah, clearly. Yeah, it was rough down there in the summer, man. But it was worth it. Oh, yeah, I definitely think so.

So, look, man, this reissue of this record of Main Offender, I've listened to it. They sent me the box, and it's beautiful, man. Beautiful box. And I'm not a big collector guy, but all the pictures are great, and you've got the photos

and the handwritten lyrics and the drawings, and everything is just beautiful. And it sounds great. Now, who decides to do this? Does someone come up to you and say, it's time to do this, or do you say, who decides to do this? Does someone come up to you and say, it's time to do this? Or do you say, let's fucking do this? Actually, Jane Rose, my manager,

comes up and says, they want to reissue, you know. And we got involved with really great sort of box set designers and stuff. Wow, man, it's like an art book. Yeah. What I like, particularly about this Main Offender one, is that it's also a live show thrown in.

From London. You know, which was... It's a great show. I didn't even know that we'd recorded that tour. So it was a good surprise for me, too, you know? You didn't know they had the machine on? No, man. I probably, too, you know. You didn't know they had the machine on? No, man. I probably just forgot, you know.

Yeah. Well, it seems like there's a lot of that around where there's just all these tapes of bands. And I'm like, who the hell knew that they recorded this? But I guess someone flips it on. Yeah, we recorded it ourselves. It was myself that had forgotten that we'd done that. Because right after that, the Stones went back into full pelt. Oh, for what was that, Voodoo Lounge?

Yeah. Who's in the lineup on the live show? Is it the same lineup as on Main Offender? On the live one, the bass was changed to Jerome Smith. Yeah. Because of, I don't know whatever, anyway, that's what happened otherwise all the same people

Bobby Keys, Ivor Neville Bobby you know, I was looking at the, like I've listened to Words of Wonder like four times I mean, you really sang the shit out of that thing and that was, it seems like it'd been a while

since you'd done a reggae song. Do you still listen to reggae now? I do. I listen to the old classic reggae quite, you know, quite a lot. Yeah. In fact, I just got back from Jamaica. That ain't playing reggae down there anymore. What's going on down there now, man?

The usual, just about, about you know the usual funk rap oh yeah yeah hip-hop hip-hop yeah well it's weird because i think i have that uh that box set i don't even know who put it out that wingless angels box set where it sounds like you got you're in a cave with a bunch of dudes that's about it yeah so what was it like playing with Steve on the tour you know I mean you guys said a lot of nice things about Charlie but what's the dynamic you know in terms of how he plays different than Charlie Steve very canny man because he can play like Charlie Watts but he didn't you know at the same time he was trying to do a mix of how Charlie approaches things and then, but throwing in his own thing at the same time.

And he's a master, man. He slotted in immediately. The whole band sort of responded, you know, and very simple. Mind you, we have been playing a lot. We all know each other. I mean,ve's no stranger to the stones and uh so but it slotted in as you know how you wish out what you hope for you got and it was great you know yeah it sounded good to me yeah man good energy good feel and uh you

know considering the circumstances with the covid and everything you you know, a great tour, you know. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it was great. Yeah. In Florida, they didn't give a fuck about COVID. It seemed surprised none of you guys got COVID in Florida. You you you managed not to get it, huh? Yeah, we're careful, man. We run a ton of run a very pro tight ship, you know, in under circumstances like that, our whole crew, nobody, everybody, you know, that's how you get through these things. Otherwise, yeah. And you feel them pretty good, huh? The last time I talked to you is 2015 and you know,

I'm not going to take any credit for anything, but, but I mentioned that you really need to do a blues record and, you know, within a year you did a blues record. So I, I mean, I'm not going to think that I for anything but but i mentioned that you really need to do a blues record and you know within a year you did a blues record so i i mean i'm not going to think that i had anything to do with that but you can tell me it was being cut like when as you when you were talking about it oh it was it was yeah because we we cut it over a period of time you know that 15 16 but um i gotta tell you man i gotta tell you you're the same that's what i was saying right we cut it over a period of time, you know, that 15, 16. I got to tell you, man. I got to tell you. You're the same.

That's what I was saying. Right. It's a great fucking record, Keith. It's a great fucking record. Yeah, it's the stuff, you know what I mean? As is. And yeah, I really liked it, man. Because you know what's amazing about it is true,

and you know this, right? So like really, anyone can play blues. You know, I sit here sit here and play them right but that's what you guys came from and that's what you aspire to so the the you know to do it like whatever it is 50 years later to do a record that could have been the song list of your first record and just that that the way you guys own that music and it's uniquely the stones playing blues. It's like, it's such a gift. Oh, thank you.

Yeah, sure. I loved it. I loved it. I listened to it all the time, man. I like, I, and I tell people about it.

I'm like, cause you know, some, for some reason I'm like, you don't know about blue and lonesome. I'm like, I gotta, I gotta spread the word that you guys made a fucking blues record.

That is just because you're a blues band that's how it started man yeah yeah are you gonna do another one another one another blues record you know i mean it can come up just like that when um so i'm not cutting i'm not cutting it out at all uh it could happen but i'm not saying we're planning one right now but blues records sort of happen in a studio when everybody's like a dead period and somebody picks up and starts playing that stuff yeah and before you know it you're cutting you know i just i mean you know i just i just love it man and i just uh like who was it don was did he Did he wrangle you guys? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Like, Little Rain,

I mean, hardly anyone knows that Jimmy Reed song. And you guys, it sounded great, dude. How'd you figure it out? We were just playing our favorites. Little Rain was always a favorite of ours way back in the 62. Oh, really? Yeah. And thenic's on one and

what he was just down the hall or something yeah he dropped by yeah for uh i forget which song now yeah he's playing slide yeah that's so wild man i can't i can't believe that record and okay because i've been listening to you know i've been listening to i just watched a documentary on howlin wolf and uh holy shit that guy was amazing yeah yeah he was i've been reading about him funnily enough uh and our sam phillips uh yeah found him oh yeah are you reading that sam phillips autobiography yeah it was not auto but it's uh peter what's his name yeah oh yeah that's a great book that guy's a smart guy Oh yeah, we did a TV show With Wolf on the West Coast

1964 I think That's where we met him Yeah And also He recorded some stuff in London Were you on that? Is there a Bill and Eric?

I wasn't on that But Charlie was, and I think Bill Wyman. Steve Winwood, Eric Clapton, I think. Yeah, that's a pretty good one. That's a pretty good record. Yeah, man. You ever talk to Bill? You ever say hi, or what?

Yeah, I saw him last time I was in London a year ago. He's alright, man. He's saying more. So what's the big plan, man? So this record's going to come out now after you do a tour, like you just got off of. Now, usually when it's over, have you had enough of Mick for a little while?

Is that? No, that's really not true. I, I was, I, as I told you, I'd been in Jamaica. I was in Jamaica with Mick.

We were, we spent a week together putting material together and just hanging around, you know? So I love hearing that. That's well, that's nice. Everybody's so nice. Look at you.

You're getting older and you, everyone's a nice guy. It's a nice year. So what are you putting together? Stones material? Yeah. Steve Jordan was down there too. Oh, so you got some songs going.

Oh, yeah. Yeah, that was the idea. That's what happened. Yeah. How many you got down? Man, I really can't count. More than I can count, actually. No.

It was a very prolific week. That's fucking great news, man. So you just sit around with the guitars and go? Yeah, no, we had to set up there, you know, bass drums. We got a pretty good sound going. Oh, yeah? Is it different? No, Jamaica's good for sound.

Because that's what I notice about Main Offender is that, you know, it's pretty timeless. You didn't do any weird production things. It's sort of there. And it's like all the songs are just great Keith Richards songs. They just hold up. Yeah, well, it is. So what's the plan with the new music?

Is it mostly a stone sound? Are you trying anything new? Hey, everything takes on. I was playing a lot of bass, so it was taking on a sort of another angle. It's quite interesting. Oh, good. At the same time, it's stone sound. You know, it's stone.

Right, right, right. that's the way it is uh but it's great fun yeah so yeah we're and because we're gearing up you know if we i presume or i hear that we're playing europe uh very shortly holy shit so how like you're gonna go out again now don't shortly holy shit so how like you're gonna go out again now don't do you do you love it i mean are you i mean do you you feel once a year i love to keep the hand in and it's nothing like it playing on stage oh so great it's so great like i like how i like everybody's got a different you know like it's funny that all of you guys are well well, you and Ronnie and Mick, anyways, are sort of like, you're sort of aging into an almost newer timing with each other, you know?

Like, they're just something that happened naturally. It's so beautiful, because who do you know, like, first of all, you know, you look great because, you know, you decided on a beanie, and you stopped weaving your hair with beads, and I like that, but, you know, the beanie's nice., you know, weaving your hair and with beads. And I, I like that, but you know, the beanie's nice, clean look.

Something to do. But, but everybody looks great. So how's, how's Ron doing? How's Ronnie good? Ron very good. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. We, uh, I was in, we were in touch with him in Jamaica via the phone, you know? Yeah. He's, Yeah, he's getting ready for the tour, man. All right. Well, that sounds fucking great, and I hope you do another blues record. Throw a blues cover on that new record.

Okay, man. And take care of yourself. It's always great seeing you. And I really loved listening to this record again. And as I said, I'm not a big box set guy, but Jesus, this thing is beautiful it's beautiful you can just sit there and look at the picture oh i remember there's pictures in here what's with the strats i like i don't think i've ever seen you with a strat there's pictures of you yeah no it's every now and again you know it depends on the song you know yeah you like that p90 sound recently though right yeah right? Yeah. That's a dirty sound.

It sounds great, man. Yeah, but I just love it, man. Love you. Love seeing you. Glad you're well. My love. Okay, Mark. Thanks.

Yeah, take it easy, man. You too. Fucking Keith Richards, man. All right, look. It's so fun. It's so fun. I got to get that beanie, man. All right, look. It's so fun. It's so fun. I got to get that beanie, though. You can order the box set from KeithRichards.com, okay?

And someone tell me, listen, I'm serious about the beanie. I want to know where to get the beanie. I want to know where to get the beanie. All right, here's the full interview that we did at the NPR studios in New York in 2015. That was where he was talking to Morning Edition. I just kind of piggybacked on. And I smoked a cigarette. Keith Richards got me to smoke a cigarette.

I knew what I was getting into. hey man nice to meet you wow let's do it okay we're on we're on I got my nicotine candies you got yours? oh baby yeah right here you got the real ones oh I miss the Marlboro Reds yeah

I actually thought about about smoking I thought if there was a time to start again it would be with you let me just hold one yeah About smoking. I thought if there was a time to start again, it would be with you. Let me just hold one. Yeah. You can just look at it if you like.

Thank you very much. Yeah, man. What are we drinking this afternoon? Nuclear waste. Oh, perfect. That's good. Yeah. You've adapted to it.

No problem. I'm the head of the game. I figured you'd drink nuclear waste. You have to, right? Just to keep going? Just to talk to you. I'm dying to figure out whether I'm going to light this fucking cigarette. You know, it's interesting.

Let's see if you can hold out. Okay, I'll try. I'll try. It's been about a decade. But I think I talked to you briefly on the phone. I don't know if you remember. I'd like to think you would remember. We talked. I told you that I started smoking

because of you. I started drinking because of you. Oh, you're the one. I'm the one. Good one. That's good. But it was funny because I remember reading an interview with you and they asked you what kind of cigarettes you smoke and you said, well, Newport, sometimes Marlboro Reds. So I was about 14 and I went out and got a pack

of both and just you know played it out see what's stuck i don't know where they got the newports you never said it never tried it marlboro reds yeah yeah right well well whatever i was i was walking around with both in high school trying to figure out how to be keith richards oh man yeah it was a rough it was a rough few years but i mean i was in school trying to figure out how to be Keith Richards, too. Strange, isn't it? You figured it out. Well, I interviewed the president a few weeks ago, and I'm actually a little more frazzled about this, because presidents come and go, but you're Keith Richards.

You remain forever. Yeah, that's one of the blessings. You're like royalty, man. Oh, I don't know about that. I have no crown. Yeah? Are you sure? I think you do.

I think you do. Well, this is like a, I'll get through the nerves in a minute, but it's a big deal to meet you because you're a big idol of mine. Now, when you started playing and you guys started to sort of come into your own, do you remember the first idol of yours that you met? Oh, Little Richard. Really? Yeah, and Bo Diddley.

Really? Yeah, because we suddenly, we were thrown onto this tour. I mean, before that, we'd been working clubs, you know. I mean, suddenly we had a record. Yeah. And we were thrown on this tour with little richard bo diddly and the evilly brothers and so i i suddenly met uh you know half of my uh childhood mentors all in one and i'm working with them too you know which was an amazing education I mean that's that's a

university for me did you talk to Bo did you ask him questions we're on the road for like three or four weeks really yeah I used to take care of Jerome Green was his maracas player uh-huh and Jerome was a great lush yeah and it was my job to get him out of the pub to get him on stage oh it's funny i think those roles changed later in life yeah yeah i mean i was willingly uh happy to do it you know i mean jerome was a loose cannon and uh you know somebody had to do it right so we ended up becoming great buddies and and Bo little Richard was amazing to watch yeah his

stagecraft uh let alone his music I mean he had an English band with him which they weren't bad a pickup band yeah yeah basically yeah but they were they were pretty good but I mean I'd have wished he had his own band with him but at the same time man the way he would you never knew where he was gonna appear from right right right I mean he'd let that band play Lucille let the riff right but at five minutes you know non-stop right in total darkness you know and then he'd turn up in the back of the back of the auditorium you know with the spotlight on him and walk through the crowd yeah and then walk through and i did wow the way you can work a room and i'm learning i'm learning things right

you but you almost been learning things just like, and the Everdee Brothers, they're so meticulously beautiful. Those harmonies, right? Wow. And you were with them for like three weeks you did that tour? Yeah, yeah, 63. So that was before England's Newest Hitmakers? Or around the same time? It had just come out, about the same time. When was the last time you listened to that record? Um...

time when was the last time you listened to that record um the odd track yeah it's a weird thing because like i listened to that record a lot you know and i came to the stones like much later because i mean i'm i'm 51 so i was picking it up right but that record i played the shit out of that record to me that was you know the that was the the pure intention the birth of it all yeah in a way I guess it was it was for us anyway and I knew it was recorded in this little room that professed to call itself a studio yeah and the whole walls were covered in egg boxes. That was called soundproofing. First class, yeah, top notch. And it was a Grundig two-track, but it was hung on the wall.

Yeah. Instead of, if it was on the table, it would have looked like, you know, unpro. But it was hung on the wall. Give it a professional feel. Yeah, and then we cut the whole damn thing on that, you know. So I started on two track. Right. Basic.

Did you do Honest I Do? Yeah. On that one? Can I Get a Witness? Can I Get a Witness, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Tell Me. Tell Me, yeah, yeah.

And like that, you set out to be a blues band. Yeah. Right? That was the intention. Pure, straight up. Yeah. And at that time, you know who i talked to i don't know if you guys are friends or not a couple weeks ago i talked to richard thompson

and oh yes yeah we're not friends because i hardly ever see him i don't know but i know yeah yeah like because i think he was a little younger but he was talking about the scene in london at that time there were so many bands and you guys would all see each other late at night like at restaurants and see each other play all the time and what was the scene you were involved in was all blues right yeah I mean yeah we were strictly at that time at the beginning of the stones strictly uh blue you know we were almost Jesuits. Let's say a missionary. But no, our whole aim was to turn London on to like, you know, rhythm and blues on the blues. Right. That was, that was like the scope for the whole universe would be right that, you know, and to have three or four or five gigs a week. And, you know, and that would be you know that's it

who are your guys early on where who were the the dudes that you were the most uh you're trying to emulate on the guitar like before chuck the straight up blues dude t-bone walker oh yeah yeah yeah yeah muddy waters very simply buddy guy yeah um. Slim Harpo or something like that? Yeah, Slim Harpo. Jimmy Reed. Yeah, Jimmy Reed. We were hard on Jimmy Reed because we were not so much interested

in being virtuosos. It was how those guys got that sound. Right, right. And to us, it was the thing of trying to get close to making that kind of sound yeah yeah and we studied man what you and Brian was started and star yeah what was Brian sing he was it what was he into most we both Brian very big into Jimmy Reed. Okay, yeah, so that's where that came from.

Well, so Mick and I were also into him, but Brian had the records. Right, right. We didn't, you know, Mick had the Muddy Waters, and I had the Chuck Berry. Brian had the Jimmy Reed. Okay, all right. So, I mean, there was an obvious collection, you know, and a connection.

But Jimmy Reed stuff, I still think, is some of the most beautifully recorded stuff, and it's so simple. Yeah, he plays it, he does a weird thing, right, on the five. On the five string. He leaves that open. Yeah, because if you're playing an E, when he's playing the five chord, he lets the three chord, the seventh note, still hang. Right, he leaves the A open, right? Yeah, he leaves it open. I learned that from Bobby Goldsboro.

Oh, really? Yeah. He hit you to that? He hit me to that because he'd been on the road with Jimmy Reed. So he hit me to, you know know the weird thing that makes that sound is like he does this yeah yeah he leaves the open a string going you know oh man i've been trying to get that for years i would never have figured it you know it's funny how those moments happen i mentioned they must have been a few of those moments like when you were putting together

your chops where you're like oh that's how that goes yeah yeah you're kidding me i mean keep looking you know how did the hell did he pull that lick off right i mean even with chuck when you did that fucking movie with him yeah man bless his heart he had the argument about the beginning of O'Carroll? Yeah. That was touch and go, man. Well, that was him testing me out, you know, and pushing. Chuck always has to be numero uno. Right. After all, the movie's about Chuck. Yeah, right, right.

To me, I'm living my childhood dream of being the second guitar behind Chuck Berry, you know what I mean? Yeah, you never knew what a pain in the ass that would be, I guess.

No, no, no. I tell you what, at the same time, he's a funny guy. Yeah. I mean, it's just, what is it,

mercurial. Yeah, yeah, yeah. One minute, he's like, grouch, and then he'd, like, piss off for half an hour. Yeah. minute he'd go grouch and then he'd like piss off for half an hour

yeah and he'd come back and he'd be back on top yeah what would he take a hit or something but

yeah no yeah he was he was a great movie changer but incredible to work with.

And I think my best feat out of that was when I said to Chuck Berry, Johnny Johnson's still around. Because Ian Stewart, who had just died that year, who was the Stones piano player. From the beginning. From the beginning. I mean, actually, I consider the Stones to be Ian's band. Really?

Yeah, yeah. He put it together. Really? He poured us together. Without him, we wouldn't have coagulated. Uh-huh. And he only got... He stopped being in the main lineup because...

What happened? Oh, well, he wasn't good looking enough and it was like they thought six was too many Stu having the largest heart in the world said yeah I understand that we recorded it was still his band

and he became our roadie, our manager road manager and everything take care of everything so I think that Ian Stewart And he became our roadie, our manager, road manager and everything, take care of everything. So I think that Ian Stewart considered us his baby, and I consider him my dad. Oh, that's sweet.

But so your relationship with Ian sort of made you reach out and find Johnny. Yeah, because the last thing that Ian Stewart ever told me, and this was just before he died, he said, don't forget, Keith, that Johnny Johnson is alive and playing in St. Louis. Ian said that to you? Yeah. And within a year, I'm working with Chuck Berry, and I was saying, you know, in my mind,

I'm saying, well, without Johnny Johnson, it's never going to be the same. So I say to Chuck, hey, Chuck, is Johnny around? And Chuck comes with a very deadpan face. Yeah, he's in town. Any chance of getting him together on this thing? I'll give him a call. Yeah.

And the next day there was Johnny, and then I realized I had... The band. The stuff. Yeah. And I realized I had the stuff that had actually made Chuck's records. Sounds so good.

Yeah. And that he literally learned how to play those licks from Johnny's piano playing. Yeah. That Johnny was first. Yeah, actually. Yeah. That Johnny was first. Yeah, actually, yeah. And it's weird. When I watch that movie, because I've been a fan of yours my whole life,

but I'm not sure I necessarily understood how complicated the rhythm of Chuck Berry is and how you deconstructed that to get your shit. Yeah, it's a variation on the thing, but Chuck and I basically played the same. It's basically the role. Right. You know, it's syncopation. Right. And for that, you need a drummer that you

can totally rely on, you know. And which, unfortunately for Chuck, once he'd used pick-up bands went away. Yeah. Because he couldn't rely on the drummer and they were just once he'd used pickup bands. Went away. Yeah, because he couldn't rely on the drummer. And they were just bands he'd never met. Right. Which was unfortunate in that respect.

Because there's a bounce to it. But I've no doubt Chuck walked out with the money. In a briefcase. Yeah. In a Cadillac. I know that briefcase. But that's it. That's a bounce right it's a it's a cut against the beat you know but the drama has to be right on yeah for you to be able to like

chop the beat around and move it and make it roll yeah that's the role in the rock and then right and that's charlie yeah solid because can i count on that man a lot. Fantastic. I imagine you know, but I think, what was it, Abco reissued a few of the old ones. They reissued Get Your Yeah Yeahs Out, right? I used to listen to that shit in high school, right? And I put on the reissue.

And I had this moment in my living room where I'm like, holy fuck! Bill and Charlie are holding this whole thing together right now! Yeah. Hey, nothing like a good rhythm section. Like, until I heard that remaster and the way you guys were all fitting together, I was like, Jesus, man, that's so solid. But I don't know why, I think in the live situation,

I think Mick even said something about it it that they were nailing it that night Do you have memories of those nights in particular that you recorded? And you know when you're on stage, yeah No, quite honestly, no because I'm not thinking about we're being recorded. Yeah or filmed It was even worse because people get aware of the cameras and this yeah, it's not a tight No tightening up. I try and forget all about what's going on around me. Just do the gig. I saw you in San Diego, I went just now, the first night of the tour.

Oh yeah, it got better and. And that was a good show. It was a good show. It was a great show. I was nervous. I was nervous for you. I don't know what the hell's wrong with you. I love you. I love you.

I hadn't been to see you in a long time. I saw you guys in 81 at Madison Square Garden when I guess it was probably the Tattoo You Tour and Screamin' Jay Hawkins opened for some reason. Oh, yeah. I think James Browntoo You Tour. And Screamin' Jay Hawkins opened for some reason. Oh, yeah. I think James Brown was supposed to. And then something happened. I don't know what happened.

I probably didn't like Screamin' Jay. I don't know, but it was just weird. Screamin' Jay comes out with the voodoo stick. I don't even think he had a fucking band with him. Everyone in Madison Square Garden was like, what's happening? And then you guys came out. And I didn't go see you because, I don't know, i it was strange for me when bill left was it strange for you absolutely i was furious i sent out the hitman

except i love him so much yeah i can't go that far yeah you know i'll just break your legs yeah yeah no it was a it was a hard call man yeah he'd would he tire out yeah uh he is and then also he developed this fear of flying oh really so he was like driving to every gig which is like you know sometimes they were so far but you know right and uh eventually he decided it was his decision his decision to call it the day. And I said, are you kidding me, man? What are you going to do, right? You're in the RAF in 1956.

Schlepping around in Germany. And he was adamant and and he made his decision, and maybe it was right for him. Right. And all I can say is that, ooh, I get Daryl Jones. Yeah, yeah. He was great. It was great.

It was the first time I'd seen you guys in a long time. And like I said, I was nervous because I hadn't seen you in 35 years. And, man, what a fucking – you sounded great. And, I mean, there was moments there where you know they're we've improved over time yeah you've gotten good i think you're really tight right you're good right now i'm gonna take it up yeah but i uh the the the experience of it was um like when i there was moments where where mick was running you know running back and forth do you ever like like at the point where

you guys are at now you know i mean we're mature gentlemen you're a little more mature than me do you have moments where you're like i hope he doesn't fall the down oh no i never worry about no mick is so nimble man and it's crazy yeah i mean uh charlie is and i always watch mick in case if you when you get out in the audience you're not hearing the beat the same as it actually is. But we're actually experts. He's crossed

the beat. Okay. You changed to Mick? Yeah. Oh, we're like a safety net under Mick. He doesn't realize it's one of me. Charlie and I are always like well you know okay we got it we got him we can actually do that yeah that's hilarious yeah well that's where the job of a band is to like support the the front man yeah yeah and now when you got you because when

we talked before you talk a lot about the the band and and your band and the band but i i have to assume that when you guys started out you know at the beginning you you were just a bunch of buddies right yeah yeah and it just evolved into this thing together by the music right who was the guy that you guys used to play with or played his club when he started was it a blues empresario? Yeah, he at the time probably had the blues nailed down in London. If you wanted to hear blues, you had to see Alexis. He's the only guy playing it, basically.

Right, right. And also he had Cyril Davis, who was a great harp player with him. And they were good. Also, he had Cyril Davis, who was a great harp player with him. And they were good. Alexis wasn't particularly that good. I remember Alexis one night invited Mick and me up to do a number. And Mick and I said, we're going to do Roll Overhoven yeah alexis immediately he used to use a thumb pick okay yeah yeah yeah he cut his strings oh i'll leave it to you and you just took it yeah no yeah he didn't want to play that rock and roll oh really so he's a real purist well

kind of yeah also i know he appreciated rock and roll and everything, but I mean, he knew that he couldn't, he wouldn't be an addition. I'm going to bow out on this one. Well, on the new record, you know, I listened to it like a couple of times. Cross-Eyed Hearts, the name of the record, right? Yeah. So the first song, like I noticed,

you're going way back for that. I mean, that's pre- i mean that's that's pre jimmy reed that's pretty much robert johnson that's robert johnson because i noticed like it's the tip of the hat to robert jones it's like hell hounds on my trail almost man it's like it's just a piece like you you can hear you breathing you can hear you know every squeak of your fingers and every pig you know it's very it's, it's all very raw and organic and then you're just like, that's all I got. That's the riff.

And no, it's not even, it's like, it's almost like a blues meditation. Yeah. You know what I mean? I thought,

you know, that would be, you know, when we got all the tracks together, if we're going to put that blues in, might as well be the starter. And then,

you know, it's like you know when people walk into movies movies yeah and they say you know the overture yeah yeah yeah yeah it's sort of a subtle overture isn't it and then you book ended it with uh good night Irene another Blues different style more of a folk Blues but the on both sides you got some you got lead belly yeah you got lead belly and robert just holding it all in yeah i wanted to do uh you know a couple of classic american yeah folk songs right and the weird thing that happened is that tom waits had sent me a big book on Lead Belly

and it had just arrived and I just put it on the table. Yeah. And at the same time, a few hours later, in walks my guitar man, Pierre de Beauport. How long have you been with that guy?

A million years, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, since early 90s, 91. Brilliant guitar. I mean, I'm lost without him. Yeah,s, 91. Brilliant guitar. I mean, I'm lost without him. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, he decides which guitar I'm going to play on songs. That's how much I trust him.

And he walked in with this 12-string. So I'm looking at this book of Lead Belly that Tom Waits has just sent me, and I'm looking at this 12 string and i'm saying i have no choice i've been ordered to write good night irene yeah yeah it's pretty haunting music some of his stuff huh oh yeah lead belly was deep you know deep and i found the original lyrics you know which are much uh i know i didn't know. Yeah, they're much raunchier than... Right. Because then it became, you know, you get the black and white

minstrels singing it, I mean. Right. And it became like an American folk song. Right, yeah, yeah, yeah. People would waltz to it and stuff. But it was kind of a dirty song? The real show. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So what, like you got a

guitar guy, this guy pierre but like you you're pretty committed to like a handful of guitars right there's four or five that you play pretty much all the time yeah pretty much when it comes down to work yeah and i was watching i was trying to figure it out on stage because i you know i bought a telly because of you way back one but not a you know good one but you know i had it i think you're on the cover of guitar player but yeah i think you had one that was altered. I don't remember. The rhythm pickup was regular,

and then there was a humbucker on the lead pickup. We do screw around with them. We do rewire them, and we do play around with the pickups on them. And you play that 54 all the time, that cream one, right? Yeah. For years.

Years, yeah. I'm bashing the hell out of it still. time, that cream one, right? Yeah. For years. Years, yeah. I'm bashing the hell out of it still. What do you go into, though? You're not a pedal guy now, are you? No pedals? No, no. Just straight in. Hey, man, it's enough to stand up straight.

No poking around on buttons. So you just change the volume when you need to. Yeah, I know. around on buttons you know so you just change the volume when you need yeah and no and also they i mean any of those effects that i need actually can be done from behind peers if we need try me low yeah yeah we do it because i need to know where to put my feet oh yeah you know yeah i mean tripping over those boxes yeah it just ties you down yeah yeah yeah now what made you decide because when i talked to you before you guys were maybe going to do sticky fingers you're going to run all three but that that died in one night and the the recording of it sounded great so what made you the next night

decide like no we're not gonna we're not gonna do it well we've i don't know uh um maybe mix a better one to ask on that but uh you know you just thought uh and i think we all thought that uh you know doing it the whole thing once was enough and we were yeah that actually was sweating our balls getting through it you know well you know but hey the whole album you know sure uh the the hardest one to play and one of the most beautiful ones is I Got the Blues which is so slow and it's very the hardest thing

for a band is to keep a slow tempo down I mean everything tends to speed up so it has to be you know that Steve Gropper was great at that with Otis

and Al Jackson the drummer You know, Steve Gropper was great at that with Otis. Right, yeah. And Al Jackson, the drummer, you know, in Memphis. But you guys didn't want to drop into that. I also noticed, I think that to be the greatest rock and roll band in the biggest rock and roll show, you've got to be big. You know what I mean? You did Moonlight Mile, which was beautiful. hit those notes that was crazy yeah i yeah i enjoyed i started i like playing that on the state at first i thought that it's going out on a limb

here nick you know it's a little sparse but as we got into it it was beautiful to play and great fun and they were loving it out there yeah speaking of Otis yeah I was thinking about like cause you know he could lay back on that

on that groove but but it's I was thinking about what did you after you know Satisfaction was a hit and then he decided to cover it

that must have been a big fucking day yeah that was that was put another crown on baby yeah right i mean for one of our songs to be covered by one of the greatest r b singers of all time it was uh you know i mean you know let's die and go to heaven you know i mean or wherever i know because that was basically the cream on the whole thing.

And then Aretha did it. And then we were like in double heaven. No, it was great to get that respect and that respond and reciprocation back from, hey, after all, he played black music. I mean, why us white can be Yeah, and he found that groove though like it you know to make that a soul song was something, huh? Yeah It was amazing and it was just amazing that

These people that respected and admired so much would take to one of our songs and then you played with on this record on the new Record did you use spoon or old them right spoon is there and he played with on this record, on the new record, you used Spooner Oldham, right? Spooner's there, yeah. And he played with Aretha on some of the big hits, right? Down in Muscle Shoals. So that must have been amazing to work with that guy. You'd worked with him before? No, first time I've ever met Spooner, although I've

known him, I feel like I've known him for years because he's been on so many records. It was actually Graham Parsons that first pointed out Spooner Odom to me. Really? And that was in like 71. He knew it. He felt it.

Graham knew country music. Spooner was basically a country music player at that time. I didn't even know that he was still around. And a couple of phone calls, Steve Jordan, bless his heart, the man I work with, who co-wrote these songs with me and produced it. Great drummer. Fantastic drummer.

Been playing with him a long time on your solo stuff. Yeah, I was turning... Charlie Watts said to me in about 85, 86, we knew the Stones were going to take a hiatus or hibernation or whatever you want to call it. And Charlie Watts said, if you're going to work with anybody else, Steve Jordan's your man. Oh, yeah?

And I took him at his word. I listened to Charlie, seriously and and steve and i started to work together and i knew we just sort of worked together we fell into each other's arms and uh he was a great friend of mine and uh that's great yeah it's beautiful man yeah i mean it's nice to walk into a studio with a bunch of dudes you know and yeah you know and trust and we're gonna make something and so you know the winos came together you know ivan neville man you know yeah yeah what do you want tell i can never forever you play with that guy i love that guy long time right great player great yeah it's sympathical yeah and and and this was the last record that Bobby Keys played on?

Unfortunately, yeah. I'm sorry you lost your friend, man. Yeah, thank you very much. Bobby's probably laughing his head off. We had no idea that was going to be his last recorded stuff when we did it. But, no, Bobby, hey, that's Mr. Rock and roll man yeah as large as texas yeah not larger between the two of you it's like you you're both mr rock and roll he he certainly lived the life he certainly did yeah yeah now when that when when when you lose somebody that you've been with

around with that long but you know you you i I guess at some point you realize that we're all living on borrowed time, and he certainly didn't waste any, right? Right. I ain't got no time to lose, baby. Is that what he said? No, before you met Graham, though, you were into country music, but do you think Parsons really kind of blew your mind on it

or what? It's just that I met Graham in London. He was actually with the birds at the time they'd done sweetheart of the rodeo yeah yeah yeah and they stopped in london and did a couple of gigs and then they were destined to go play south africa and i had to bump into graham that night i went to see the show, and we got to talking after, and he said, I'm getting this sort of feeling about South Africa, and I don't know, I don't understand it, I don't know.

So I explained to him, he said, it's like going to the South, aren't you? But even worse. This is like, this isn't segregation, this is apartheid. And once he'd understood, he said, well, and he left the birds that day and stayed with me in London. Oh, really? He just let them go on their own? Yeah.

On principle? Yeah. That's fucking beautiful. Yeah. And we became very, very close friends. Had a few cold turkeys together. Sweated out? Yeah. friends uh had a few cold turkeys together sweat it out yeah that's sad too yeah that guy died so young yeah man that's another one you know but you still do like it's interesting like this record

uh you know it's got all the stuff that you love on it you know you've got you've got your soul ballad you know you got your country music. I've got my reggae. The reggae was really good, man. I was like, he's like doing reggae again. But you love it. I've always loved it. I've lived in Jamaica for many years. Yeah?

You don't got that place anymore? Oh, yeah. You still have it? Yeah. At the time you got it, though, didn't you have to get it? Like, you couldn't come home, right? I burnt the passport, actually. Because I got, someone sent me that box, that box set that you did with those guys in the cave or something.

What was that? Oh, the Wingless Angels. Yeah, man, the Rastafarian. Those recordings are crazy, man. Yeah, man. It's just like hours of, like, you know, I'm like, oh, there's Keith. I can hear little Keith there, you know. I'm just backing up. Right, crazy, man. Yeah. It's just like hours. I'm like, oh, there's Keith. I can hear a little Keith there, you know?

I'm just backing up. Right, yeah, yeah. I was letting the guys have their thing. That's wild, man. And, yeah, luckily, because nearly all of them have passed away since. Oh, yeah. It's a nice box, that box. Yeah.

It was a nice box, that box. Yeah, it was a great experience, and it was sort of, oh, just to capture some of the last moments of this particular part of Jamaican culture. Yeah. And I managed to do it. Yeah. And they loved it. We had great fun. I mean, you couldn't have funnier sessions in your life.

Yeah, yeah. A lot of weed. What do you want? A rum and milk. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So in terms of being at the age you're at now and sort of the type of songwriting you're doing, because there's a couple of songs on here,

like on the new record, like Amnesia and Nothing on Me, where I felt were sort of like celebrations of being still alive in a way. In a way, I guess. Yeah. I mean, I,

nothing on me is, it basically was about being busted. Right. Right. Yeah. And it wasn't until I listened to the whole record, I realized that the cops crop up a lot in this record, you know,

in, on Rob Blind. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. Well, you made it, you made it, record i realized that the cops crop up a lot in this record you know in uh on rob blind yeah yeah that's right yeah yeah well you made it you made it you're not wanted anymore you're good right yeah and there's no there's no warrants out you're set you're solid yeah well let's talk about guitar players for a minute like because uh all right so you lost brian and then you bring mick in then you toured with make a bit, Mick Taylor. Now, I guess my question, if I'm really going to focus it, just out of my own curiosity,

because there was some shift where you guys sort of invented modern rock and roll. There was some shift probably right in the middle or right after Satanic Majesties where the entire sound and the groove became what the modern stones are. What do you think, what happened to sort of make that happen? Was there a moment where you're like, this is where it's at? I mean, the difference between how you cover Love in Vain or what you did with the blues and country music on Let It Bleed and Beggars and Exile. Like, it's just that became the template for rock and roll from that point forward.

You know, and one, in a way, I can put this in two words, Jimmy Miller. Producer. Yeah? How did he affect that? How did he influence it? What did he say? Well, after Satanic Majesties,

Mick and I were like, we have to refocus. I mean, that was a mad year. I mean, there was Sgt. Pepper and Satanic Majesties. Well, I guess they're all on acid, right? Which was true enough. So you did all the acid, you did the thing. Oh, they had gone to India. So you had to keep up with the Beatles.

Yeah, we didn't know. We had to refocus. Oh, that's interesting. So that was the end of you keeping up with the Beatles. You're like, we've got to do our shit. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I couldn't go anywhere near there. And I realized that the Beatles, Beatles the boys themselves are sort of

outpaced themselves in a way you know and then they were you know well they lasted what they were they were what would they that was it they didn't what are you gonna do what are you gonna do you know and uh uh and so they started like you know like anybody else that play around and yeah but that was 67 that's 66 67 right those years were I mean it's crazy I mean there was LSD all over the place right and so if you made did you like that shit I had a couple of good trips and a couple of bad ones you know just like anything else you know right

right but but no it was not something that I'd wake up in the morning and sort of say I must have a tab you know

right right right because then what are you going to do for the next three days yeah it's crazy yeah

it was interesting yeah and I mean I don't say I I mean I don't regret any of it but it was an experiment right but I think in a way it kind of shook Mick and I up because we said boom now we really got to tighten up you know this is why we got beggars banquet and and i gotta say that jimmy miller was the key in uh in tightening the band up and refocusing so to speak well it seems like you guys like like you said about you know doing

uh you know yeah you want me to do it about um About smoking that first cigarette in 10 years with Keith Richards. I don't know why I wouldn't do that. Thanks, man. I'm a bad influence. Not you, Keith. That sounds so, not you. You're not a bad influence.

So, but in terms of, because when you talk about it, you know, I got the blues, you know, and that laid back thing. I mean, somebody, you know, relaxed the band. And if it was Jimmy Miller, how did he do that necessarily? You know what I mean? Get you into that groove. Because the sound is pretty different from Aftermath to fucking Beggars. Yeah. beggars. Yeah it was I think after the satanic majesties I think we'd actually reached the end of our tether you know we'd been working 350 days a year for like four years yeah I mean there's you know where did you go on your

vacation? Vacation? Forget about it right yeah yeah if we weren't in if we weren't uh on the road we were in the studio and i think yeah basically even at that age you know we pretty much worn ourselves out the year between that and and bringing uh begging and getting beggars banquet together was basically re-energizing, getting some rest, re-energizing, and refocusing. And as I say, to me, it was Jimmy Miller that put the lens in the focus.

He was a drummer. He had a great sense of sound. And he loved the band. Right. And he brought out the best in us. And did Brian die in the middle of that? Somewhere around there, yeah. Brian, I mean, he's the kind of guy you love to hate.

Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he was... Brilliant but annoying? Is that what you're saying? Brilliant, uh, in, in, yes. Yeah.

Beyond annoying. No, that, that motherfucker. Yeah. He was, uh, you know, he'd be in Chicago and play a gig, and he'd get asthma. And he's got... I got to play three weeks in the Midwest without another guitar player. Oh, so he's fragile.

Thank God the girls were screaming loud enough. I mean, I'm trying to cover all bass. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then I find out that he was out of the hospital the next day and they're hanging around screwing groupies. Oh, yeah. And I said, excuse me, man, we need a little more dedication. out that he was out of the hospital the next day and hanging around screwing groupies and excuse me man we need a little more dedication you know you need a guitar you got a job yeah you have a job you're in a band so it went kind of from there yeah you know i mean that he was uh you know he became a track yeah yeah and then when mick taylor comes in that was a whole different

kind of guitar player right i mean yeah it's really interesting the difference between you know like taylor and wood but like mick taylor was like he was a big part of the sound for a couple albums huh he certainly was somebody a brilliant guitar player yeah how's he doing this for the last I saw him he's doing alright he's a bit chubby but that's his privilege right but he plays great and we

worked together for a couple of years but you know Taylor you know I mean to me I'm a guitar player but you know on my own I really I, it doesn't interest me. My interest is in playing off of the other guy and what you put together, because two guitars can sound like an orchestra if you do it right.

Right, play off each other. And that's really what it is. As Ronnie and I, excuse me, call it, the ancient form of weaving. Right. Yeah, yeah. It's like where you don't know who's playing lead,

who's playing rhythm. That's what you did. And it all switches through. And Mick Taylor was kind of his own dude, right? Yeah. Yeah. So I had to readjust

for that. Yeah, yeah. And at that same time, I'd just gotten into the five-string thing, so I was rearranging my sound. Where'd you learn that? I tell you what, Raikuda was the first cat that I learned it from. Yeah? I saw her playing it.

Yeah. I didn't learn it because he wouldn't teach you anything. Right. He keeps his secrets and bless his heart. But I'm still finding out man i mean this is what you can do with it because it's a whole different but to me it sort of re-interested me in playing guitar because i you know it's pretty much at the end of uh my possibilities on just straight tuning right i mean right i I'm not going to be Charlie Christian.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You accepted that. And I don't want to be. Right, right. But when I got to the open G thing, I started to really research it. How to play a minor chord with open G. And you get all of these resonating notes

and drone notes that fascinate and still do that's the genius of Keith right there it's funny you're talking about the Beatles I can't believe I'm smoking my first cigarette in 10 years of Keith Richards in an NPR studio

huh? how about that? fuck everything we're smoking an NPR you. Huh? Huh? How about that? Fuck everything. We're smoking at NPR. Yeah. You know what album I love, what song I love,

is when you play with George Jones. Oh. On the... Bradley Barn. Bradley Barn thing. I fucking listen to that all the time, man. I mean, that was a real honor for me. Was it? Yeah.

To work with George Jones. I mean, first off the grand parsons and yeah you know grand parsons of it george jones is like the and he is the singer the greatest singer yeah amazing what he is uh he's there with uh you know, Aaron Neville is another cat that can use the voice as if it's, you know, effortless and do anything with it. Frank Sinatra once said that he thought George Jones was the second best singer in the world. Yeah, right.

I would take exception to that. Oh, yeah, right? Amazing voice. Amazing voice. I would take exception. Oh, yeah. Right? Amazing voice. Amazing voice. And a great guy. Crazy as nuts. Were you guys playing off each other in the studio at the same time? Yeah, we hooked just like that.

You could feel it, too, man. It's a beautiful song. Darling, there's talk around town. Yeah, yeah. It's fucking great. And you played with, you did you did a record with jerry lee yeah and jerry lee is another great friend of mine yeah still yeah he's still he's still he's still hanging in huh man he's amazing man i guess you old devil's got to stick together

a little bit i guess we've had our tips and we've had our, you know, but no, Jerry and I, you know, it's sort of a recognition of similar souls. Right, yeah. And you were able to play with Muddy, and you played when Buddy's still around, so you played with him sometimes? Yeah, yeah. I mean, Buddy was on the show with us in Minneapolis.

Yeah. Or Milwaukee. Did you play with Wolf? Howling Wolf? Yeah, once on that Shindig TV show. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. We didn't actually play with him. No, I was there.

And you watched? Yeah. I once woke up in his house. How'd that happen? Well, I don't know. I fell asleep at Marty's. I woke up in Albemarle. To Chicago? Yeah.

Some party or something. They must have carried me from one on another. What are we going to do with this white kid? I don't know. We'll just take him with us. What the fuck? There must have been a lot of lost weeks, Keith. Here and there.

How do you level off? How do you manage? I mean, we don't need to get too far into it. You got pretty strung out for a few years. Keith Jones Oh, yeah. Deliberately, it was an experiment. Steve Adubato Yeah. Is that how you view it? An experiment for a few years? Keith Jones Yes, I'm the laboratory. Steve Adubato When did you realize that the experiment was over? Keith Jones It was going on too long. Steve Adubato Yeah, yeah. yeah when did you realize that the experiment was over it was going on too long yeah yeah you know

i mean you've been threatened with you know seven years hard time you know that'll do it yeah yeah i love my band more than i love the stuff oh good yeah yeah so you're able just to taper off and get into a management system boom i just just kicked it yeah what a What a relief, huh? Yeah. I mean, I got sick of dealers and junkies, you know. Because you end up in that stuff. You end up and you realize that the only people you're talking to are like, are they strung out cats? That's right. You're in a hotel room full of people you don't know.

Waiting for the man and all that. Right, right. And so it was, yeah, it was time to cut that out. And so do, cut it. You know what's scary about that is that if you're in a room full of five or six of those dudes or whoever that attracts, if you go down, if you fucking OD, you know what? You're going to be alone in that room. Oh, yeah.

No one's going to fucking call the cops. Don't tell me about it. Right? Yeah, man. Oh, shit, he's down let's go in the bodies yeah yeah it's a scary fucking world oh my god i read that i didn't realize you you put out a new book that i i downloaded to read on the plane gus and me oh yeah i read your children's book i thought it would take a little longer it took me eight minutes but i downloaded

it took me four minutes to read and to write it but it's really a pretty book i mean did you ever think in your in your in your life that you would be a children's book writer you know you think i mean the idea came up i thought you kidding me right who came up with that idea uh the publishers um of um of life of life, of my own book. Yeah. Somebody, they'd come up with this idea about, there was a chapter in there about my grandfather. Uh-huh.

And they said, this could be a really nice children's story. And I thought, if I'm going to write anything and do anything for kids, I can only talk about something I love, which is my granddad and the guitar. So it was in a way, it was like taking my hats off to Gus, who was great to me. He threw you a line. He was your lifesaver.

It's a cute little book. And your daughter illustrated it. Yeah. And yeah, it was a family affair. Yeah, but she did a great job. She did. It's a pretty little book. I couldn't believe I'm reading it.

I'm getting choked up reading a Keith Richards children's book. I love to sort of throw you the odd... I'm listening to your record, and then I'm reading your children's book, and I'm like, what the fuck? All I want to do is drugs, but I... I'm broadening my horizons. I'll say, man. Well, you've got some grandkids, right?

I've got five. Five. Do you love hanging out with them? Yeah. Yeah? Yeah, it's worth hanging around to be a granddad. Did you ever think you would? I mean, it's certain times, no.

But here I am am and there's five grandkids and they're and it's another thing you know it takes you on another level it's one thing

being a father yeah which is like fun enough you had a couple shots at that yeah two sets

yeah two sets of that and and out they come you know but they're they're the great little kids yeah yeah what do they have a name for you just grandpa or granddad or what do they call you grandpa yeah him him and you get along with all your kids? Yeah, sure. Yeah, it's a very close family in that respect.

Yeah? Yeah, yeah. It's like a tribe. How were you with your dad growing up, you know, in general? I mean, because I know you loved Gus, but your father, did you guys fight it out for a few years? I don't know. I grew up with just my mom and my dad. Yeah.

So I grew up in a very adult area. So, I mean, sometimes, you know, I sort of wished I had a brother or a sister so I didn't have to listen to the arguments about the rent and the insurance and whatever, you know what I mean? Right, yeah, yeah. But there's no way out of that. So you sort of grow up in an adult household, whether you like it or not.

Yeah. And they treat you like a kid at the same time. You know they have problems. But not between themselves, but just like day-to-day living. You know what I mean? My dad worked his life for general electric making tubes right so of all things of all things yeah and I'll get around to in a minute boom so I leave home 17 like the bird leaves the nest and within a

year my mum and my dad has split up I think I was the only reason to stay around. But so I, you know, suddenly I'm making some bread. I said, immediately I take care of mum. Yeah. Yeah. My dad, whatever, for 20 years, no contact whatsoever. Really? Yeah.

And in 82, I think 81, 82, I sent a note and said, see if you can get this through to my dad. You know, why haven't we seen each other for so long? So my dad comes down to my house and I send him, and I'd

taken Ronnie Wood with me because I wanted protection. So I meet my dad after 20 years. I was scared shitless. Really? Yeah, in a way. I mean, I needed some support. Some kind of support.

Yeah. And out comes me dad, 20 years older, a little old bloke, great. And we snapped to straight away. I mean, we just, like, got on. And I had more fun with him for the next 20 years. I showed him the world. You know, I said, get on this plane, come on.

And he's got Brookshire sitting on his lap. Yeah. And I gave him the whole world he hadn't seen. And for the last 20 years of his life, we were like, we played dominoes endlessly. With a load of other guys. And he liked his rum. Yeah, there you go. That he could drink us all under the table.

Oh, yeah? Yeah, it was amazing. That's beautiful, man. And your mom? Bless her heart, yes, always saw her. And the funny thing about my mom is that she knows she's going. I went to the hospital, the clinic. When was this?

It was 2002, I think. And so I brought a guitar with me and I sat on the end of the bed and she said Keith this morphine's not bad you're 93 at last now you get it

oh that's fucking beautiful so the new record's great man and I love everything you do and I guess to finish up when you look back not so much about regrets but is there anything you're still pissed off about?

Is there anything stuck in your craw about the way things went down? I could have lived without being busted and without being like cops putting things in my pocket and stuff. Oh, that happened? Yeah. You got set up? It was terrible in London. Oh the first big bust? Yeah, no, there's a second one.

Oh What have we got here? Oh really? But I did have the pleasure of that gentleman. His name was at the time was Constable. Uh-huh. And it was Constable Constable. constable. Uh-huh. And it was constable, constable. Constable,

constable. Yeah, he got to be sergeant, I was saying, before he was finally checked. Nothing to do

with me by then, but I just read in a paper that he was sentenced to five years. Oh, really?

Yeah. You don't even know why. Fuck him. Yeah, well, it was probably for the same thing.

Send people out. Or just corruption or whatever. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it was a bent station. Yeah. You know, it's one of those things thing you know just corruption yeah yeah yeah it was a bent station and yeah you know you know it's one of those things you know cops ain't perfect

so so ronnie's good ronnie's good charlie's good yeah you and mick are good yeah everything's all right yeah and looking forward to doing some more yeah all right well thanks for talking to me it was a real honor. Really fucking amazing. A real pleasure, man. I'd rather laugh. And you smoked your first cigarette in 10 years. Yeah, with Keith Richards. Come on.

Thanks, man. Pleasure, man. Keith Richards. Man. Sometimes I love my life. I really do. All right, so go to WTFpod.com slash tour for all my upcoming tour dates. You can go to KeithRichards.com to get that beautiful Super Deluxe box set.

And now I'll play my stinky guitar. I just, it's not a Keith riff. But it's a, you know, it's rock. It's what I do. I've probably done it before. Thank you. guitar solo Boomer lives. Monkey and Lafonda. Cat angels everywhere. It's winter, and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats.

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Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. It's a night for the whole family. Be a part of Kids Night when the Toronto Rock take on the Colorado Mammoth at a special 5 p.m. start time on Saturday, March 9th at First Ontario Centre in Hamilton. The first 5,000 fans in attendance will get a Dan Dawson bobblehead courtesy of Backley Construction. Punch your ticket to Kids Night on Saturday, March 9th at 5pm in Rock City at torontorock.com.