WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1314 - Ariana DeBose

Episode Date: March 17, 2022

Ariana DeBose knows there was no way for her to prepare for what's happening right now. There's no instruction booklet for being a professional dancer at age 18 and suddenly becoming an Academy Award-nominated actress. Ariana and Marc talk about how getting voted off So You Think You Can Dance changed her life and how she checked herself by watching The Devil Wears Prada. Ariana also goes into the details of making West Side Story, including her collaborations with Steven Spielberg, Tony Kushner and Rita Moreno.  Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive. FX's Shogun, a new original series streaming February 27th, exclusively on Disney Plus. 18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing with cannabis legalization. It's a brand new challenging marketing category.

legalization. It's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Lock the gates! store and ACAS Creative. What the fuck, buddies? What the fuck, Knicks? What's happening? I'm Mark Maron. This is my podcast, WTF. Welcome. Welcome to it. Welcome, one and all. Welcome to all you new people. Have a seat. Hang out. Listen. All right? Listen to it. Don't talk. Well, you can talk. You know what? It's fine. Talk to me all you want. Ye me it doesn't matter because i can't hear you how's it going

you okay everybody good how's that thing do you get that thing taken care of how's being back at work is that all right is it weird is everybody back or are you the only one there is there a couple people what are you guys doing with the mask situation does anyone care anymore are people over it where you are did everyone just decide it's done? What's going on with testing? What is happening? Oh, you're going to work at home for the rest of your life? Is that good, though? Shouldn't you get out? All right. Can we talk later?

Everyone good? Great. Listen. Listen to me. Listen to me. Ariana DeBose is on the show today. She started out as a dancer, and she was in Broadway shows like Hamilton. But now she's Oscar nominated for Best Supporting Actress for playing Anita in West Side Story. I imagine that she's kind of surprised about it. Maybe not. I will talk to her about that. I enjoyed the movie immensely.

I watched both West Side Stories back to back, enjoyed both of them. She's amazing as the sister, the Rita Moreno part. And I don't watch, well, who does? In the sense that how many are there really? But I was watching these two musicals, and I've seen some stage musicals. I enjoy them. I don't seek them out. But when I go, I'm happy about it.

I don't know why I think it's some big secret or some shameful thing to like a musical. You know what I mean? I don't know when I decided that or why. Where do you think that comes from? Can we break it down? Where does that come from? My shame of enjoying musicals. But as many of you know, anytime I watch them, I get choked up just watching people sing, But as many of you know, anytime I watch him, I get choked up just watching people sing, especially in the live ones in the theater. But this was great. They were both great. It was very interesting to see them next to each other. I talked to Tony Kushner about it, and now I can talk to Ariana about it. It was nice to have a shiny, young, talented performer sitting here I was having a rough week and she kind of lit me up just with the energy nothing dubious nothing weird just like oh look at all the youth and

excitement everything's ahead of her and she's on top of the fucking world and she's talented and deserves it how does that not make you feel good I think if it's not the right day, that could make you feel resentful and jealous and old. But that would never be me. Never. It was a rough week when I talked to her. I don't know why. I was just hard on myself all week. I guess I should say that I'm very proud of myself

in the sense that there's something going on on stage right now. Whether anyone gives a shit or not, I do. And I know what it is. Like I'm doing these shows solo. So I'm doing an hour and a half and it feels like a goddamn play. It feels like there's an arc to them.

There's an emotional movement that we're going through a lot of different levels of emotion and engagement. All of them pretty funny, but different types of funny. And I can feel it. I can feel the investment. I can feel the years of work.

And there's just something about laying in a bed in a Best Western Plus in Laconia, New Hampshire after performing for an hour and a half plus, putting it out there, putting on a great show, having driven there from Troy, New York, and I'm just there laying in the bed. Now, at another time, that could seem sort of sad. You know, when you think about a performer on the road, especially driving a rental car in the middle of winter to do gigs and sleeping at a mediocre hotel, it could be sad. Or maybe I'm projecting. Maybe you just, I have been in those situations in my life where

I'm like well this is sad this is where I ended up but for some reason I had this wrestling match with myself where it's like you didn't end up here this is what you wanted to do how would it be different there's no nicer hotel here that gig was a good gig. There were plenty of people there, 500 plus in the middle of nowhere. This is what you wanted to do. This isn't sad. You alone in a hotel room worrying about whether or not you're going to beat the storm tomorrow on the way to Burlington after performing for five or 600 people doing an hour and 40 minutes, 45 minutes, whatever it was.

people doing an hour and 40 minutes, 45 minutes, whatever it was, you chose this life and you're doing exactly what you want to do. Just because you're alone in a hotel room in Laconia, New Hampshire in a Best Western Plus does not mean it's sad. It's, you know, I mean, could it be nicer? I don't know. It doesn't matter. know it doesn't matter it's not the that's not the point i'm not judging it against anything else but this is the life i've chosen and this is this is doing great laying in a bed in a best western plus in laconia new hampshire kind of just eating chocolate and wondering should i masturbate should i? What are we going to do with this life you've chosen, laying in a bed in a Best Western Plus in Laconia, New Hampshire? Are you going to do it?

Or are you just going to eat the chocolate and have an orange that you bought for the car? You're going to eat the oranges that you bought for the car and have some nuts? Or are you going to do everything? You can eat the nuts, eat an orange or two, have a couple pieces of chocolate and masturbate. Where are you going? What are you going to do with this life you've chosen in this amazing life you've chosen alone in your hotel room in Laconia, New Hampshire, after doing an hour and 45 minutes for 500 plus people? How do we celebrate? How do we say, I'm free. i'm free i'm free

this is the life i've chosen we do all of them now you just gotta decide on the order okay ariana debose on the show today. Amazing, shiny, talented. Sings, acts, can dance, all of it. Great, great movie, that West Side Story. Let me tell you a story. Let me tell you a story, all right? Okay, here's the deal. I don't know how many of you listened to my podcast with BJ Novak, okay? It would seem that there was a weirdness between us.

And I will cop to it. And I did cop to it in front of him that there was a slight kind of like jealousy, like how, you know, this guy can, you know, it was sort of like Harvard guy. All the opportunities just came to him. Seemingly can do everything with a certain amount of focus you know as a children's book writer or a director an actor comedian kind of not quite a comedian he

did it for a while but i wouldn't say i wouldn't call him a comedian but uh writer you know all of it all of it he does it all does it well made a lot of money successful guy and turns out after listening to the podcast if you listen to us talk nice nice guy. And we kind of hammered it out. I copped to being older and slightly bitter and judgmental. And he copped to me copying to that. He copped to that being a reality. But ultimately, it was okay. Not a bad guy. That being said, for months, it seemed like months. There was some AirPod Pros in my I found them on the floor, these AirPod Pros. And I couldn't identify when, you know, sometimes things go. I don't know.

I just found some AirPod Pros. I know who they I didn't know who they were. And I don't have AirPods. I use a Bluetooth headset with wires and whatever. Had these AirPods in here for months, didn't know who they were. Finally, I'm like, how do these even work? It's like finding an alien. You flip open the thing, a light comes on.

I had no idea about AirPods. So I opened the AirPods to look at them because maybe I should get some I don't know and they came up on my phone as Benjamin's AirPods and I'm like who the fuck is Benjamin and I asked Brendan my producer I'm like I just these AirPods that I've had sitting here for what seems like months belong to someone named Benjamin and he's like could that be BJ Novak and I'm like oh shit it must be BJ Novak so now I've got BJ Novak's airpods and I kind of want to try him out but I'm trying to do the right thing you know it doesn't matter if I try him out or not right but so I text BJ I could tell you exactly what I texted because I thought it was I thought it was because I figured listen to me

he's rich he's successful you know he probably bought another pair right you would think he would bought another pair right I texted him hey how are you it's Marin I've had these airpods in my studio for a while I didn't know who lost them until I synced them up with my phone yesterday and they're Benjamin's airpods you right I assume you've replaced them and i can accept them as a gift or i can give them back to you somehow what would you like to do sir see i i kind of i kind of you know i was trying to get him to give them to me and he just said oh that adds up i'm in boston for a few days i'll check in when i'm back and maybe i can swing by and grab them thank you no prob I said disappointed

because I thought he had to have gotten some other ones. Why not gift them? Why not gift Mark Marin your used AirPod pros? And then a few days ago when I was on the road, he said possible for you to leave the AirPods outside your door tomorrow discreetly for me or an assistant to pick up. And I said, I'm gone until Sunday. Sorry, have to be after that. He said, no problem. What I didn't say is, oh, you still want those? Because I'm kind of using them.

I'm trying them out. I'm trying them out. So on Monday, I texted him back. I said, I'm trying them out. So on Monday, I texted him back. I said, I'm back. Let me know when someone will come by. I'll stash them somewhere outside if I'm not home. Thank you. And he said, I hope the road was good.

I said, yeah. And I put him outside. I gave him the address, put him in a mug. His assistant came and picked him up. Now, I don't know what exactly I'm copying to, but I kind of would like to be around when he syncs up his AirPod Pros to his phone and they come up as Mark's AirPod Pros. I kind of, it's the little things, folks. It's the little things. Will he know?

Like, I mean, I did just try them. And I cleaned them with alcohol and everything i mean i but like now i'm telling you about it but i didn't tell him on the text i didn't say look man i i used them but i cleaned them but none of that matters i could have told him that but then like the fun of whatever happened and i'm assuming something did like it's so stupid like i i like he's gonna feel what like i can't use these anymore like you know that these are no longer mine they're i thought they were my friends but now they're mark's friends it's just a piece of technology but still still i would have liked to have seen

any sort of change in expression when he synced them up and they said, Mark's AirPod Pros. Yeah. Okay, so that said, all of that, I went out and bought some, and they're kind of good. They're kind of amazing, I think, so far. So good. Exciting. Everything's got its own little brain. Everything has its own little brain now.

West Side Story is now streaming on Disney Plus and HBO Max. It's also available on digital and Blu-ray. And I was excited to talk to Ariana DeBose. And I think we did all right. I think we did all right. Here we are. It's hockey season, and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats.

Well, almost, almost anything. So, no, you can't get an ice rink on Uber Eats. But iced tea, ice cream, or just plain old ice? Yes, we deliver those. Goaltenders, no. But chicken tenders, yes. Because those are groceries, and we deliver those, too. Along with your favorite restaurant food, alcohol, and other everyday essentials.

Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. It's a night for the whole family. Be a part of Kids Night when the Toronto Rock take on the Colorado Mammoth at a special 5 p.m. start time on Saturday, March 9th

at First Ontario Centre in Hamilton. The first 5,000 fans in attendance will get a Dan Dawson bobblehead courtesy of Backley Construction. Punch your ticket to Kids Night on Saturday, March 9th at 5pm in Rock City at torontorock.com. What'd you get all dressed up for? Me? You, of course you. I costume changed for you.

I was in a pink suit earlier today. What have you been doing? I was at the Academy Award nominees luncheon. Oh, they have a luncheon for the nominees? Thank you. Congratulations. Thank you. Who was at your table?

The president of the Academy. Oh, wow. David Rubin. Yeah. Andrew Garfield. Andrew Garfield was right there? He was at the table. Kenneth Branagh was at the table.

I talked to that guy. That guy's, I mean, I like him. He's chatty. He's British. He's chatty. He's British. He's very British and he has a lot to say. He's also very curious and I enjoy that,

like a curious artist. He's a charismatic guy and he gets right in your face. He'll go, he'll go, right? It's right here. I know. Yeah.

You know, it's like you feel like you're watching a Shakespearean one-man show. Oh, totally. Absolutely. It all tracks. His body of work, the amount of Shakespeare reimaginations or interpretations he's done,

it tracks. When we were talking about his family and stuff, I literally felt like I was watching a one-person show. This is the most intimate theater experience I've ever heard, I've ever had. I love it. And so what happens at the luncheon? Is it like, they're like, we did it. You guys are the ones.

Well, they do. You know, it was kind of nice because they 100% acknowledged what was going on in the world, you know, which is nice. Yeah. The world is ending, but we're going to have a party. The world is burning, but welcome to our luncheon. Here's your vegan plate. You do the vegan? I'm not vegan, but they were conscious of people's your vegan plate. You do the vegan? I'm not vegan,

but they were conscious of people's dietary needs. They made everyone eat vegan? No. Yes. I mean, we all ate chickpea, something, something.

You did? Really? Yeah. It wasn't too bad. Okay. But it was actually really lovely because it took into account all of the things.

There are many, many problems in the world, but, you know, they emphasize the need for art and good art that changes hearts and minds. And I appreciated that. And also, I don't know, I think about legacy a lot. And there is a legacy with the Academy, and the legacy is changing and shifting and growing. And it was sort of nice to see that talked about and to be included in it.

Oh, yeah. You know, it's like, well, it wasn't that long. Look, all different kinds of people are here now. Well, all different types of artists. It's like, when's the last time you had, you know, a film like Coda being shown love like this? Sure, sure. This is a film full of deaf actors.

There's the hearing community and the non-hearing community and yeah we it's very rare that we explore that yeah um or that type of work the sound of metal i believe was the last time that was last year last year riz Ahmed was incredible but it's like the it's it feels like it's becoming more inclusive yeah Yeah. Only if we could just make the rest of the country go that direction. Well. We're trying to lead by example. It's like. Attempting, you know.

Holly was doing a great job at integrating everybody into fiction. Now we just got to do it in real life. How about that? That'd be awesome, guys. Maybe it'll bleed over. Bless. So, legacy though. You think about legacy?

I do a little bit. Like, what do you want to leave behind? What do you hope people remember you for? Yeah. It's like, well, there are two schools of thought there. There's, like, what I think I'm doing and, like, what I think I'm putting out in the world and then what's actually happening. Right.

You know what I mean? Yeah. How are you handling all this? This is, like, sort of one of these things where, you know, do you feel ready for what's happening? Absolutely not. Are you kidding me? There's no version of the world where you're actually ready for this. You're like a Broadway musical person.

Yeah. And now you're like an Oscar-nominated actress. That's stressful, man. Like, it's cool. Do not get me wrong. Like, this is an embarrassment of riches kind of moment. Sure. You know?

But is it like, is it what you set out to do? I mean, do you, you know what I mean? I mean, because like the life of a Broadway person is a much different life. Yes. Than whatever you're doing out here. Yes. Right? You are very correct.

And you were dug in there. Absolutely. I was, I mean, and to a point I'm still entrenched In In what that is Yeah I miss it Yeah I miss the The lifestyle of it

I have to assume you miss it To be To rehearse for weeks and weeks And then get on stage And do a thing And do a thing And do it eight times a week And love the thing so much

As opposed to like Spend three weeks Doing one dance number Yeah Well and you know It's a different kind of stamina. I've come to like both schools or both types of work. Yeah.

Both genres. Sure, sure. Yeah, yeah. However you want to talk about that. But I enjoy both. There's a comfort in knowing when you're working in theater that there's going to be a downbeat. And then however many minutes or hours later, it's going to end. Right.

This making movies thing that I'm doing, it's like you work really hard for four months or so, and that's it. And once you shoot a scene, it's done. You're not getting a chance to fix it, so I hope you were really good. Right, and also it seems to me, and I I always project this because I've done some work in movies and television, but once you leave the set, you have a great time and you can say bye to your friends, but that's it, man. Yeah.

Presumably, you may never work with these people again. Yeah. Or even hang out or talk to them. Or even hang out. But it's very intense when you're doing it. Yes. But I feel like with Broadway, there's a community there that actually socializes. We do.

Oh, my God, we go hard. Are you kidding? Some of the greatest parties are Broadway parties. Right. And it's also part of lifestyles. I remember playing Donna Summer, and that was a 90-minute show, really. But then I walked my happy little ass over to Bomb 45 every night

and had my little cocktail to wind down and socialize with other people. Other people come from other shows. That's a thing. You hear about

mishaps and stuff. There's always other shows and other people and you're like, yeah, I'll come over and do that thing and it's a New York thing too, right?

Or like Saturday night on Broadway in New York City for the Broadway community is a thing and each show will host every once in a while. So, like, we'd have a big Donna Summer party. Right.

And then, like, the Dear Evan Hansen crew would host at their theater. Right. So, I don't know. You're able to do community building activities. I think so. It's important. Right. And it's cool.

It doesn't really happen without, like, this out here. It's a different thing. And there's definitely, doesn't really happen like this out here. It's a different thing. And there's definitely like a class strata out here. You know, people go to their house on the hill and then some of us go to our house in Glendale. Well, I think. It's not poverty here, but you know what I mean. No, it's a different thing all around. What I can say is like observing that and also being in a different position now.

It's like I am beginning to understand why people in certain positions live in their house on the hill. Yeah, yeah. Oh, for sure. You know. But it was dancing, right? Yeah, I started dancing when I was three. But like for real dancing when you were three? Well, no.

Where were you? Where'd you grow up? I was born in Wilmington, North Carolina. North Carolina. Yeah. And my grandmother, my mom, put me in dance class when I was three. Yeah. And I really took to it.

And I knew even then that I loved it. Yeah. And I also realized, ooh, you're competitive. Were you watching dance? Or did you just like it? No. It was just something about it. I loved doing it.

Yeah, yeah. And then once they discovered i loved doing it they started to show me okay movie musicals yeah um but like if you ask my nana i should be like oh god i watched beauty and the beast more times than i care to count or aladdin like i was really into the animated sure but they're not dancing too much no but i will tell you i will say if you look at how those animated films are crafted, they're full-blown musicals. Sure, of course. And some of those characters do dance.

You just don't realize it. Yeah, yeah. I remember, I mean, I'm old, so I remember Jungle Book. That was a good one. Look for the bad necessities. Right, and they're just kind of shuffling around, shuffling around. So it was great. I loved that film.

Yeah. But I really started dancing, taking it super seriously when we moved to Raleigh, North Carolina. Raleigh? Yeah. That's a good town. It doesn't suck. Progressive town. Progressive town.

Yeah, yeah. I like the Blue City idea. Oh, yeah. Just terrified progressives. It's fine. We're surrounded by exactly their different way of life yeah um but it was fortunate that i moved when i did because raleigh was incredibly supportive of the arts at the time for sure um you know their politics were yeah more blue but

how old were you when you moved there? I was starting elementary school. That is a bold-faced lie. I was starting middle school. Right. So I was going into sixth grade, which I'm assuming makes me 12 or 13. And what's the background? What's your folks do? Where do they come from?

Well, I didn't grow up with my dad. I grew up with, he was not a part of my life. Ever? Ever. Now? Ever. Nope. Hmm.

Never sought him out? No. I i just know i never felt the need um i was like people make their choices sure i mean i've talked to people it goes either way you know do you know that if he's come out to find you uh no no you don't know okay and i'm okay with that yeah um my childhood really wonderful. My mom is this incredibly strong-willed. What'd she do? She is a public school teacher. That takes it. That takes a strong will.

It does. And she teaches eighth grade, which really takes a strong will. Yeah. In Raleigh? She does. She teaches at Wakefield Middle. Still? Yep. Wow. Yeah. In Raleigh? She does. She teaches at Wakefield Middle. Still? Yep.

Wow. Yeah. She's great. And she's one of the greatest educators I've ever seen in action. Sure. But when we moved to Raleigh, I went to the school that she taught at. So that was an interesting experience. So you're the teacher's kid.

Yep. There was no getting away with anything. I and then what about other kids are just sort of like did they resent you or uh yes and no and yes uh or maybe just yes and yes yeah yeah uh i mean i was uh i actually don't know how to describe myself in those early years because i I was either for you or I wasn't. Like, I think I was that artsy kid. So, like, this is eighth grade-ish? Yeah, eighth grade-ish. Like, I loved the arts. I wanted to go to dance class.

I liked gym. It was fine. But I was probably a fairly moody kid. Art nerd? Yeah. Did you start doing theater then? No, I got into theater in high school. Okay.

But in eighth grade, you were dancing still. Yeah, dancing. I was in the concert band. I played the heck out of a clarinet, I'll tell you that. Really? I was pretty good. Can you do it now? Nope.

Gone. It's really sad. But I do remember some of my theory, a little bit of my music theory, which has come in handy. Has it? Yeah, being a vocalist and an artist, I can, you know, make my way through sheet music. Yeah. And,

and oddly enough, I have been in rooms where people who do what I do can't. Yeah. And I was like, oh, well that's

interesting to me. So what was the theater experience like in high school? I was focused on being a great dancer. Yeah. And I'd been

in high school and I'd been taking... What does that look like though? Are you doing competitions? Yeah. That's what I was focused on being a great dancer. Yeah. And I'd been dancing in high school. And I'd been taking... What does that look like though? Are you doing competitions? Yeah. That's what I was getting to. Okay. Yeah.

I was a studio dancer. I was a competitive studio dancer. So like, yeah, you watch Dance Moms. I was doing that. Yeah. But my mom was not a dance mom. Not at all. But we traveled up and down the East Coast going to like...

She would take you? Yeah. It's me and my mom driving in a car. Sometimes we'd carpool with other single parent families. Yeah. Which was great because we created a sense of community for ourselves. But we went to convention competitions that were really cool because you could take class all day as a student and lots of different styles of dance and then compete at night

doing the routines that you would work on at the studio. So it was like a whole weekend thing. Whole weekend. With a bunch of other kids. With a bunch of other, from all over, I won't say the country, but like really the East Coast. And so a lot of my friends that I really connected with were from different states. Right.

But it was great because that's, it sort of was like a precursor to my adulthood. I have friends all over. The world? Now. Now I have friends all over the world. And it's lovely. But that was a really formative time because I was meeting so many people, especially choreographers, that I would come to work with later. Who were doing like clinics for kids?

Yeah. Clinics for kids. Who are doing clinics for kids? Yeah, clinics for kids, or a lot of them are choreographing on So You Think You Can Dance for a Fox television show. How old were you when you did that? I was 18. So what is going on in the personal life? You're running around from town to town.

Are you just dancing all day? Are you driving yourself crazy? Well, I didn't view it that way. I mean, I was super dedicated. Right, so just working the hell out of everything yeah well yes i was i mean i took all my academic classes in high school but i was in every arts class known to man i was like i was vice president of the chorus club i was helping to like you know oh my god the dance the dance department i was in the concert band at one point i was in the marching band and then I became a choreographer for the color guard. Really?

Yeah. I spun rifle. I was actually really good in the color guard. I loved it. I loved that. I don't know that culture. The regiment? The regiment.

It's fire. You can't tell me anything when that drum like a brrrat, brrrat. It is everything. Yeah. It makes such a big difference in a football stadium i'm telling you get yourself a marching band i i saw like david burn did something with the color and i so good i interviewed him around that and it was and i was watching that stuff it's crazy it's crazy it's a whole culture it's a whole culture and it teaches you discipline

exactly like it's almost military in a way. A little bit. But I mean, is it a culture that goes into adulthood? I don't know. It seems like it's... You age out. You do age out. You mean there's no

40-year-olds like, I'm still doing color guard. I doubt it. They might be teaching the color guard. So, what kind of dance are you focusing on?

See, I have a hard time until I kind of think about you in terms on what is like see i have a hard time like until i i kind of think about you like you know in terms of like what is the future of a dancer when you when you're a kid and you're like i'm going to be a dancer how does one make a living it seems like there's two ways right well like either you dance in yeah in one kind of show or you dance in another kind of show yeah well i mean the that was what my mother was sort of looking at with me because she was like are you sure you want to be a dancer and i'm like yes yeah this is the only thing i

want to do and at the time it was like you go to la and like dance in the los angeles hollywood community and be a backup dancer okay so what are the gigs for that really i mean like when somebody goes on the road i guess these concerts you concerts now. You go on the road. If you book. With Madonna or Gaga or J-Lo or whoever. You become one of their dancers. And then now we, well, in the last however many years, different artists are now having Vegas shows. So Celine Dion had her Vegas show. You could get a job as a dancer. And that could go on for a year.

A year, two years, depending on how long they keep their residency and how long they want to contract you for. So that was sort of it, the life. You go gig to gig to gig. You could do music videos, but that's it. And that must be competitive as hell. Oh, incredibly. Incredibly. I mean, I won't.

I mean, it's sort of dog eat dog at this point. It still is. To a point, husband yeah but you could choose that path or you could go to new york city and become a dancer in a broadway show right essentially that's really what's available to you there unless there's dance work available to you on a television show or if they're making a film but it seems like like it's limited unless you want to be a contemporary dancer in a company yeah or a dancer, again, in a company. But it can't be limited.

That's a different way of life when I know nothing about, to be honest. Well, I mean, because it seems like when you're supporting a show, like, you know, as a background dancer, it's like you got a guy that's like, oh, we're all going to do. And you've got a thing going. Yeah. But I would imagine if you're working with Twyla Tharp or the Alvin Ailey bunch, they're going to twist you and you don't even know what's going to happen. You're going to push

your personal limits in a different way. You do. I would agree with that statement. What they do is, I mean, especially when I think about anyone who has danced for Ailey

and Twyla, it's its own counterculture. Right. It's small, right? It's small because not everyone can do that, what they do. It's so specific and specialized. And it takes a different kind of discipline, a different kind of maintenance on your body. People don't realize that as dancers.

It's like, yes, it's very magical what you get to see us do on stage. People don't realize that as dancers. It's like, yes, it's very magical what you get to see us do on stage. But in order to be able to do that for you as an audience, it takes a lot of maintenance on our body and self-care. And when injury happens, if it happens to a certain degree, it is crushing. It is career killing. The end. It's the end. And so you have to, I always try to tell young people, if you love this, you got to really

love it. Yeah. Because one thing could happen. It could take, take it away from you. So it's there. You are, you're an athlete. And again, I don't think the industry acknowledges that dancers are athletes and they don't compensate dancers for in that way.

In fact, typically we're relegated to the background and asked to volunteer our services. That happens frequently. Like what do you mean? Free? Yeah, free. They will ask dancers to work for free for music videos. No kidding. There are artists today still doing that.

Or saying, I will pay you X, but then it takes five months to receive said payment. But then it takes five months to receive said payment. Like, I kid you not, the biggest thing I've noticed from, you know, working on Broadway to now doing what I'm doing. Yeah. From in juxtaposition from what my colleagues in the dance world are doing. Yeah. As a member of a union, I am guaranteed payment after a certain amount of time. I don't have to wait.

There are some dancers who are doing gigs who like a year later are still waiting on their check. Yeah, it's like... And there's no accountability. Bad actors. It's a bummer. With, like, club owners, it's the same kind of thing. It's like whoever's running the thing, and they always have an excuse. Like, well, we didn't get the money from the guy, and, you know. There's always an excuse.

The producer's got a problem. Or even just down to like safety you know what i mean like nobody's looking out for a dancer but the odd thing is like you i start to realize is when i was talking when talking to you now but thinking about it it's like it's out of all the disciplines of art it's it's a smaller community is. Because the jobs are what they are. And I imagine these people that aren't getting paid, there's got to be this whole other world of B-level productions

that people are working their asses for that don't really get seen except on maybe a community level or regional theater level and all that stuff. No, it's interesting because there's great regional work to be had as an actor, of course. But just beating it out.

Beating it out. Well, and gosh, someone said it to me recently and they were famous, but they were like, it's not about the big famous jobs that you get being here in this industry. It's just about outlasting everyone. You know what I mean? I was like, oh, I get that on a visceral level. Outlasting in one way or the other in one way or the other right so so you do the the fox show yep and that was a big

break i don't know if i'd call it a big break but it definitely um it redirected me to new york yeah um and that was the it was my first big brush with rejection. I was on season six of So You Think You Can Dance, and it was their first and only fall season ever. And I made the top 20, and then I was sent home the first week of competition. And my God, what a bruise to the baby, baby ego. How old, 18? 18 years old.

And I was voted off in front of 6 million people. But mind you, the ratings on ABCs Charlie Brown and the Great Pumpkin were higher than that particular night's viewership. So maybe not 6 million. No, it was definitely 6 million. Oh, what? But like 10 million people were watching Charlie Brown and the Great Pumpkin. Right. You see what I mean?

Yeah. But it was still tough because I was 18 and I didn't fully understand what I got myself into, if I'm honest. I thought it was just really about dance and the craft and it's still a television show. And so now when... So you weren't really thinking in terms of the business? No. Why would you? At 18 years old. Why would you?

I don't know. Like some people are surprisingly together and ambitious and have a plan. At 18. I wasn't one of those folks. You just wanted to be a dancer. Correct. Yeah, I was. My naivete was really showing through on that one. But it's natural, though.

I mean, maybe you're a purist. I mean, it's sort of paid off. I mean, I imagine that. It worked out. Right. But I imagine a lot of people that do that. That's the last thing they do in dance. Well, some of some of them.

Yeah. Like, you know, they did what they did. And it's like, OK. And their parents are like, so you got that out of your system. you know they did what they did and it's like okay and their parents are like so you got that out of your system great now what's your real job yeah yeah what's your real job and you didn't have to deal with that well no no i didn't but i always had a really i've always had a really strong sense of self and you know my mother when i really you seem like you've always had it yeah always and i know i think i'm an alien or something but it's always been there that's a good parent uh yes yes it is

yeah um i told you yeah gina dubose she's a badass um but she said when i moved to new york she was like well i don't have any money to give you yeah you have what you have right but you can always come home and i was like i love you much. I will not be doing that. And I didn't. So you went to New York after you lost on the show. Yeah. Well,

by way of Cullowhee, North Carolina, I attended Western Carolina University for about a month and a half. Not for you. No, it was not. What happened?

I just, I had already had that like semi-professional taste of work and i was like i can do it what's going on in your personal life at this point what personal life nothing nothing just dance dance oh totally dedicated yes competition i know you know it's funny you bring up that little word ambition um i used i remember god this is i'm to go there. I remember watching Devil Wears Prada in the theater. Freaking great movie. I watched that movie so many times.

See, it's like a good rewatch. Totally. But I remember seeing it and I left that theater crying because I was like, ooh, am I too ambitious? And it was like, I felt so checked by that film because I was like, you're watching Miranda Priestly. You're watching Andy Sachs. Two women in different positions in an industry, but they both have ambition. And it's like, it's not, it wasn't a movie about the perils of ambition, but it was just like, what are you going to stand for? What are you going to work for?

I recently, I wrote it down. I said, because I know people, I said, ambition is not a point of view. No, it is not. That is very profound sir thank you yeah because a lot of people have it and it is you know rewarded and and it is taught almost that's i mean that's what you know motivational speakers do yeah but but you can have that and be very annoying yes yes that's all you're working with i i think so and so yeah how did you check yourself though like what did you have to like you know question yourself what what in terms of uh your authenticity or what well i mean i was young i was still in high school when i saw that movie but it was very um that was around the time that i had realized i had really achieved a certain amount of success

where i was as far as my dancing was concerned. I didn't feel like there were any more challenges to be had. So that's when I really dug into theater. So I checked myself by putting myself in a circumstance that I actually was not the best person in the room. I was not very good when I first started. This was in North Carolina. Okay.

It was in high school. Okay. All right. And I ended up following the path of the environment room i was not very good when i started this was in north carolina okay i was in high school okay all right and i ended up following the path of the environment where i was not the best in the room and i've been all the better for it and that continued even when i left so you think you can dance and and it took me to colloee i went as a student in their uh musical theater program at the time again great dancer not good at the other disciplines. I really had to work hard, but I still was like, you know what, I'm going to go and I'm going to dance.

I'm going to go to New York. So I did. And I auditioned for everything, but it took me a minute. I was not an overnight success. What happened? What facilitated it? Who, you know, sort of? Who?

Well, I don't know who. I was just like, I'm miserable and I got to go. Right. Yikes. But... What happened? Well, the day I got there... Yeah.

I landed in New York and I actually had a sprained ankle. Yeah. And I wrapped that foot up, shoved it in a Nike and went to audition for a stint in one life to live star cross lovers series yeah they're musicalized episodes yeah and i booked it i don't recommend everybody doing that because like safety first sure but i got the job but i had to wait for like a month and a half for the job to start that's good because your ankle got better correct right so I was sleeping on my friend's couch and like, you know, rationing my food and getting up at 5 a.m. to go stand in the non equity in the equity line to try and audition. Yeah. And it was a lot of that over and over and over again. And my mentors, Terry and Charlotte, Charlotte D'Amboise, who is an incredible triple threat in her own right. Charlotte D'Amboise, who is an incredible triple threat in her own right.

You would know her. Roxy Hart in Chicago. One of the greatest charity. Yeah, sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. These are big Broadway people. Broadway people. Terrence Mann. You may know him right now from Foundation on Apple TV+.

So how did you meet with them? I went to theater camp. They run a theater camp. Yeah. When was this? After? When did you? I was in high school. A lot of stuff happened when I was in theater camp. They run a theater camp. Yeah. When was this? After? When did you? I was in high school.

A lot of stuff happened when I was in high school. Theater camp. Theater camp. And that's where I met them. And they were like, if you ever come to New York, let us know. Okay. So like all this is in high school, you start exploring theater because, you know, just dancing might just be a life of competitions and disappointment

and you want to broaden yourself you broaden your possibility right your higher horizons and then you you kind of crap out at college didn't like it didn't like it and then you decide just to go to new york and you're like i'm gonna call terry and uh terry and charlotte and they said i could check in and they said i could check it and honestly i didn't check in until like a month or two after I got there. Yeah. Just because I was like, let me try and do this on my own. But you got the gig with the Broken Ankle before you called them?

I did. I wanted to have something to show for myself. Sure, sure. It all, I don't know, it all worked out pretty well. Eventually, I booked Bring It On, the musical, which like it was an opportunity to learn how to make a musical because it wasn't immediately going to Broadway. We were developing. So it's workshopping? It was an opportunity to learn how to make a musical because it wasn't immediately going to Broadway. We were developing. So it's workshopping?

It was workshopping. And then we did an out-of-town tryout in Atlanta, Georgia. So this is all kind of new, learning how that business works. Yes. So, I mean, it was really quite extraordinary because I was, instead of going to college to learn how to do it, I booked a job and they taught me in real time how to make it. That's the best way. I agree, honestly. But it was a great opportunity.

It was Andy Blankenbuehler, Lin-Manuel Miranda, Tom Kitt, Jeff Witte, and Amanda Green. And many of those folks I've gone on to continue to work with. I think you were in Hamilton when I saw it. What? Yeah. Really? I think so. No way think you were in Hamilton when I saw it. What? Yeah. Really? I think so. No way.

I can't remember when I saw it, but Lynn was still in it. Yeah, I was in it if Lynn was in it. Yeah, yeah. And it was great because he was a fan of my show and he gave me the good seats. Amazing. And at the end of every podcast, I say Boomer lives, you know. Boomer lives. It's my old cat.

But it was funny because he knew exactly where I was sitting. At the end of every podcast, I say Boomer Lives. It's my old cat. But it was funny because he knew exactly where I was sitting. So at the curtain call, he looks right at me and goes, Boomer Lives. I saw him earlier today. You did? I love him for that. How's he doing? He's good.

He's a nice guy. He is a nice guy. He's very generous with his spirit and his energy. He is. He doesn't say things he doesn't mean. And I do enjoy that about him. So you're working with all these people on workshopping this musical, learning the game.

And how does that musical do? I don't know about Broadway musicals that much. How did it do to bring it on? It did pretty well. I mean, honestly, if you know anything about the Broadway industry, if you run for six months, due respect, it's a bona fide hit.

If you run nine months, wow, you really got something on your hands. And if you run for six months do respect it's a bona fide hit yeah if you run run nine months yeah wow you really got something on your hands and if you run for a year well then i'm gonna throw statues at you yeah so this was your life it was my life you you were like i'm i did it here i am i'm a broadway person yep and you do all these shows i motown the musical yeah very different from bringing on and then i went into Pippin. Yeah. And then I went into Hamilton. And that was it. So each time are you learning new things?

Yes. Yes. Every every show I do. How's the singing coming? When did you start? That's a good question. I mean, I got to New York and realized I needed to be a better vocalist. Sure.

I've trained the entire time. Yeah? Yeah. I mean, in bringing on, I had some lovely little solos, which was lovely. And then I had to figure out how to sing Diana Ross tunes. So you work with a coach? I did work with, I've worked with a couple different coaches over the years. Yeah?

Yeah. Matt Farnsworth is my current go-to. And how does that work? You call them and you hope that they'll take you. But what do you do in a coach session? Like I've gotten to one vocal training thing who just taught me how to like, Breathe.

Yeah, breathe and find my own thing. Your larynx. Yeah, whatever it is. That we're singing with your diaphragm. It's very moving to me. Yeah? Yeah, but and find my own thing. Your larynx. Yeah, whatever it is. That we're singing with your diaphragm. It's very moving to me. Yeah? Yeah, but I don't, it's like, I'm like a closeted musical person. Okay.

In the sense that, like, I always like them. I don't seek them out. And I like to sing, but it scares me because it makes me very emotional. So I kind of, like, I don't embrace it as much as i used are you afraid of your emotions not too much afraid of them i'm afraid of failing as a singer it's all right i was too i got over it but i tell you i like watching people sing it's enjoy what's enjoyable you're watching someone go on a journey most sweet musicals yeah yeah i um you want to know something i got better at being a singer yeah by going to a bunch of clubs late at night and getting up and trying to sing songs.

Yeah. Like karaoke or just with friends? No, like, no, I'd go. Cabaret? Cabaret. Okay. I'd go to different cabarets. And quite frankly, there's a lot of really bad YouTube videos that exist of me getting up and trying and sometimes failing.

Yeah. Well, I guess you just got to do that. You do. I do. I think if you want to do something, just go up there and try it. I've been singing in public with, you know, like cover songs and stuff. And like I did it at this place where, you know, where I was comfortable with the audience. And I just, you know, I couldn't hit this one note and I knew.

Yeah. But I stopped and I said, I'm going to do it again yes and you know what did they clap because they should have they eat that shit up it's a vulnerability to that 100 100 yeah yeah it's authentic yeah and honestly some of my favorite vocalists are the ones that you're like are they gonna make it yeah You know what I mean? Yeah. Like, this is 100% respectful, but Idina Menzel, incredible vocalist. But there are some performances, I've watched her and I'm so in it with her.

And then I'm like, ooh, she's going to hit the note. She's going to hit the note. And then she hits the note. And you're like, yeah! I know, exactly. You know what I mean? Yeah, there's an anticipation to it. Yeah.

It's like, yeah, that's it. It's like athletics. She's an anticipation to it. Yeah. It's like, yeah, that's it. It's like athletics. She's going to nail it. Yes. So how does the opportunity to do this West Side Story come in? How familiar were you with the musical? I mean, what was it? But before we do that, what was the Donna Summer thing?

Like that was a big deal? Huge deal. I booked a Bronx Tale the musical and the Donna Summer musical kind of at the same time. And it was around Tony weekend for Hamilton. Okay. And that's kind of unheard of to book like two and one. Yeah. So those two musicals were produced by the same people.

Yeah. And I don't know why they decided this was a good idea. Yeah. But they saw me in Hamilton and said, let's bring her in and see what she can do right and i ended up getting to play jane in a bronx tale directed by jerry zackson robert de niro and then the same breath they were like great and also would you like to play disco donna summer um and so that was her life there was many don Donna Summers. There were three. Yeah. So different Donna for different time periods of her life. Yeah.

I played Donna at the height of her musical powers, which was intimidating. So I had to go out there and confidently sing MacArthur Park and Hot Stuff and whatever. Baby, please. What is it? Little day of love for me. I am yours forevermore. Yeah. That one. Heaven knows. That's what it is. Yeah. yeah. What is it? Little day of love for me. Yeah. I am yours forevermore. Yeah. That one.

Heaven knows. That's what it is. Yeah, yeah. But it was a real challenge for me because that show forced me to come into my own as a vocalist. Right. And I never tried to, like, I was not trying to impersonate Donna Summer because why would you do that? That's a terrible idea in my opinion. I think that's sort of the going thing to that's the the going wisdom on that that you don't because then it's just sort of uh you can't mimic really I just didn't see

the point gotta get the vibe the vibe you're looking for the essence yes and so that that's what I tried to do and sure I found some like she made very specific vowels when she was singing you know oh no and they all have this timbre and nobody sings like that anymore to be perfectly honest why is it uh i don't know maybe they can't how is that not coming back how is disco not coming back how is it i guess it's just integrated it's all under there yeah i think it's time okay seems like well i mean kind of like silk sonic they kind, they're getting close. They're getting, okay. Right? I actually don't know who you're talking about.

It's Anderson.Paak and Bruno Mars did a thing called Silksonic. I love Bruno. It's great. It's sort of like later Motown-y kind of vibe, like 70s stuff. Lots of trumpets? I think so. Trumpet work? Oh, my God.

It's just like there's a groove to it that is almost approaching disco. You got to get the record. I will. I will. You will find that I am an odd millennial and I don't actually understand many pop culture references. Oh yeah. I don't know any.

I'm an old man. I'm just saying that it's just a project the two of them are doing together. I love that. And they're both kind of like weirdly, you know, they're interesting talents, you know. So you're doing Donna Summer. Yeah. And everyone has to reckon with you as a vocalist. You've arrived.

This woman can sing. Something like that. Well, I'll go with your version of the world on that one. But yeah, I became a Tony nominee. I'm a Tony nominated actress for that performance. And I'm really proud of it because I, you know, with the help of like Sergio Trujillo, who was our choreographer, I was able to turn this version of the character into one that actually was a triple threat role. Right. You know, someone, a character who uses dance to express how she's feeling.

Triple threat means dance, act and sing. And sing at the same time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And sing at the same time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that was a really, it's a rare opportunity because on Broadway, even to this day, they're not really making roles like that. So it was cool to try and create. Interesting.

What are they doing then? Like, what do you mean? Either you're dancing or you're talking or you're singing? No, there's, I mean, everything is cyclical. At one point, people were really writing for quote unquote triple threats. Right. People were really riding for quote unquote triple threats. And then it sort of shifted and it began to favor what I call the park and bark, the stand and sing. You come out, you do your scenes and then you sing really, really well. And then you move?

And you impress everyone. And no, you don't move. You walk off the stage. You take your bow and you go. So the singer doesn't do any of the dancing? Nope, not a single kickball change. But that was a choice. Yeah.

A trend. It was a trend, I think. In my professional opinion, we'll call it a trend. So the evolution then, you know, just in the short time you've been alive, you know, once you sort of all of a sudden learn the mechanics of how musicals are built. Yes. And then you learn, you know, sort of like what are the positions one has in musicals. And then, you know, you get these, the goal seems to me to be,

was at some point to be a triple threat. Confidently. Always been. It's always been the goal. I mean, once I came to, once I got to New York and realized, oh, there's a space here and that I actually have the capability,

I'm capable of doing this. That did become my goal. I wanted to be someone, an artist, who did all three disciplines really well at the same time. Yeah. And so Donna Summer just happened to bring it together. Exactly. And now what's mom doing during all this time?

Mom's teaching. But is she like crazy excited? She's going to all my opening night parties. Like she's always my date for things. Yeah? Yeah, yeah. And she's very much like, cool, how'd that go?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Who'd you meet? Oh, well, be careful what you say. Like remember, you have to like say it in a way that you can be heard, but also be firm because we don't let people

walk all over us. Yeah, yeah. I was like, yes, mom, you're correct. So everything's going on. You're Tony nominatedony nominated now how does how does this thing happen how does it happen that you get this opportunity to do you know anita um cindy tolan our incredible casting director yeah um open-minded queen that she is yeah she'd seen me in donna Summer and had apparently,

I just figured this out, had been asking me to come in for West Side Story. And I had told my agent at the time that I needed to focus on keeping my show going. I needed to show up and lead my show. So I'm not going to audition.

Donna Summer. So I was like, no, I need to be Donna Summer right now. So you're dug in. You're like, I'm a Broadway person. I'm doing Broadway. It's real interesting, the movie thing, but we're, you need to be Donna Summer right now. So you're dug in. You're like, I'm a Broadway person. I'm doing Broadway. It's real interesting, the movie thing. But we do the real thing.

I'm doing this Broadway thing right now. And then finally, they called. And we're like, can you come to Brooklyn the next day? And I was like, oh, well, fine. I guess I'll go. And now I can't believe that that was my approach to that. Did they send you a car? Did you take the train?

Absolutely not. I took the train. I lived in Harlem at the time. I had to go to Brooklyn. And if you know anything about geography, that's quite a train ride. It's a schlep. But I got there and I went and dag nabbit if Steven Spielberg wasn't there that day. He was there.

Yeah. But I didn't know that. And I told Cindy the night before that. He didn't know it going in, but you knew. He was there. Yeah. But I didn't know that. And I had told Cindy the night before that. He didn't know it going in, but you knew it when you got there. When I got there and walked into the room

and his lovely, charming Steven Spielberg face was there. Was Kushner there? Yes. My hero. Yeah. They were both in the room.

So that must have been like, you'd just been like, what? Oh, if anyone has learned anything about me is that I am a shockingly anxious artist.

And so Ariana said, what are you going to do here? I told Cindy that I wasn't going to read tomorrow, that day. I was like, I'll come in, I'll sing and I'll dance. I'm not going to do the sides because I'm not prepared. I couldn't possibly be ready in time. Now for a musical, is there like, I guess it wouldn't be on the first audition, but there's no sort of like five, six, seven, eight.

Oh, of course. There is. Oh, yes. I walked right in and they said, great, come into this room and learn the choreography. Justin Peck is going

to teach it to you. And it's like whole chunks of choreography. And thank God I speak dance. On the first day. Yeah, I speak dance better than I speak English. So I had that part.

Yeah. And the singing I knew because it's it's steven sondheim's lyrics it's the bernstein score i was well aware i got that stuff it was the sides that got me because tony said i'm going to adapt the hell out of this script he definitely did and and he did yeah the the, which actually are not in our film, but what we were auditioning with, incredibly wordy, a lot of substance. And I was like, this isn't something that you walk in and you paraphrase or you make it up or you put thought into this.

Sure, sure. So you're intimidated by it. Oh, totally. I was intimidated by the material. But you have not done that kind of acting before, really. Not really, no. And I also was like, this is not for nothing. It is a great opportunity to be seen for something different.

Even though it's a musical, you get to have real acting jobs and show that you have the capacity to do this. Yeah. So how did you pull that together? Well, we got to the moment where he was like, great, can you stay and read for us? And I said, no, sir. It was Spielberg? Yeah. To his face. other well we got to the moment where he was like great can you stay and read for us and i said no sir it was bielberg yeah to his face yeah and i'm pretty sure he looked at me like i had killed a

puppy or something and then cindy tolan yeah rushed in and was like remember we spoke about ariana she's starring in a broadway show yeah we to her last night. She's just asking for a few more days to be prepared. Right. And thank God he was able to hear me. And he looked at me and he said, you're not going to read today. And I said, nope. And he was like, but you'll come back. And I was like, I really would be honored.

That's kind of like a big risk, huh? Oh, balls. Cajones. I'm just thinking, like, if I was an actor, you'd be like, sure, I'll give it a try. I'll give it a go. Yeah, but you just didn't want to fuck it up. No, I didn't. I really didn't. And you had enough confidence

in your dancing and everything else. You knew that, you know. Well, it's interesting. Someone, Kenneth Brannell, said to me today, and I'll never forget it. He was like, I loved watching your performance because it, you, you doesn't feel arrogant.

Yeah. It felt like you just, you had a confidence and I was like, you know what? I really appreciate that because as an artist, I'm like,

I know that I know what it is that I know. Yeah. But I also know that there's a lot of stuff I don't know. Yeah. You get what I'm saying?

Sure. Yeah. And I was like, I appreciate that. And all you can do is don't know yeah you get what i'm saying sure yeah and i was like i appreciate that and you all you can do is show up with who you are yeah i was like i know dance yeah so i have that to offer you yeah the other stuff let's collaborate because i don't know what i don't know right so what did you do when you left with that with those sides i went home and i studied you didn't actually i went to do my show, and then I studied. But you didn't study with anybody? You didn't have somebody read them with you? You didn't get somebody to-

Oh, my best friend helped me read. My best friend is named Jonathan Caberta, and he's a better actor than I am. We went to theater camp together. Okay. But outside of theater camp, no coaching, no training, acting? Every once in a while, I took an acting class. I had taken an on-camera class. I took Bob Krakow's class once.

I didn't last very long, but he does give very good advice. Matt Newton. I took Matt Newton's acting class. He was great. Yeah. So you just leaned into it, read it over with a friend, got it in your memory? Yeah. And do you speak Spanish? No, I'm not fluent. Did you grow leaned into it, read it over with a friend, got it in your memory. Yeah. And do you speak Spanish?

No, I'm not fluent. Did you grow up with it? No. Do you have Latino in you? Yes, of course I am. I am Latina. I'm Afro-Latina. My father is Puerto Rican.

Okay. And again, didn't grow up with him. Sure, I get it. But that doesn't make me less of what I am. I'm like, boo, I walk down the street, I'm a black woman to half the world. And if you know, I'm a Puerto Rican. Right. Yeah, I can see.

You have eyes. Yeah. But I mean, like, so how did you learn Spanish? I took lessons. In fact, that was one of the reasons why I was nervous about accepting the job. Because I am very aware that there's not enough representation in the industry, in my opinion. And quite frankly, it's just a fact. So I didn't want to take this job and then not do it well.

Or if this character was going to speak Spanish, she needed to do it really well. Well, you did it really well. I mean, you seem like you were from that part of town i'm glad that means i did my job and i'm no i'm thrilled they armed me with like all the different coaches i'm still working on it i don't speak spanish in public because i'll be honest with you i get really nervous and then i start to stutter and i get the words wrong because i i still have maybe that's part of my own baggage or trauma like i carry it in the language like i get my tongue starts to feel really heavy and i can't speak so you had dialogue coach language coach yeah language coach um you do those takes where you're like they're like you know that one word

yes exactly that i know. It was constant. It was constant. And that's how I wanted it. Victor Cruz. I could not have done this without this man named Victor Cruz and Tom Jones, for that matter. They were the two coaches on the film. So when you go back, what happens? Well, they put me in full hair and makeup, which had never happened to me before.

So they made me in Juanita. Yeah. And I did a chemistry test with two different Bernardos. One of them was David Alvarez. And I did read the scenes. And I thought, I think I did a pretty good job with them. Yeah, it seems like you did. And then the next day.

I think you got the part. Yeah, the next day he called me from an airplane. Steven Spielberg called me from an airplane and asked me if I would be his Anita. And it was the coolest moment. I was in a nail salon crying silently with like tinfoil on my nails. And it was one of those New York moments that I was like, you can't make this shit up. No. What is happening? Yeah. It was cool. And New York moments that I was like, you can't make this shit up. No. What is happening?

Yeah. It was cool. And then you start work. Now, how long before you started work? You had to run the show. Oh, so he offered me the part in late September, early October. They didn't announce the casting until January. So I had to keep it a secret for three months.

Yay. until January. So I had to keep it a secret for three months. Yay. And then we started pre-production in March and we started shooting in May, I believe. So how familiar were you with the original? Pretty familiar. I mean, I... Did you watch it again?

No. You didn't? Not at all. You didn't want to have it in your head? Nope, didn't. No. What would be the point? I'm not trying to duplicate or recycle.

Of course. No, but I'm just curious. I'm not even thinking about duplicating or recycling. Because, I mean, you know, Kushner had the challenge of taking what was already a good musical and making a version of it that was both honored that one, did not, you know. Right. So everybody was sort of in that position. Like, you know, how are you going to make that better or just make a different version is what you're doing, right? But I imagine if you're watching the old one,

as a dancer, you'd pick up the dance. You can. Before you pick any, like, you would see. Because it's like there was a different style then. Absolutely. Well, Jerome Robbins, like that choreography, he had a very specific language. Yeah.

And I'm very well versed in it, to be frank. Oh, you know you know that jerome robbins i do i do i know the legacy industry of jerome robbins yeah um and that comes from my mentors you know i was trained by some of the best in the industry in regards to my dance training yeah and so i didn't need a refresher because it's part of what makes me you me so where you start from scratch with everything yeah when do you when do you meet rita who did the original oh my gosh i met rita moreno she came to one of our big rehearsal days and we were we had sort of like community show and tell days um so our

producers brought in folks who were living in san ju Hill in 1957, and they would come and talk to us and talk to, like, what was going on on the block, what actually was going on. Really? Yeah, really. We had an Irish gang member come. Old people. Yeah. Yes. Like, they brought in our elders to talk to us about their lived experience.

You know, Puerto ricans came in we had uh virginia virginia sanchez corral yeah who was an expert in puerto rican studies came to talk to us um and gosh there were just so many different examples of that that's interesting it's helpful because like we're telling west side for a new generation in what world do any of us know what the hell was going on in 1957? Sure. Yeah, yeah. So I really appreciated it. Yeah.

But she came on that day to sit with them and to talk about her experience making West Side Story, the film. Uh-huh, uh-huh. And then in the middle of one of her stories, she stood up and she goes, wait, where is the girl who's playing Anita? Where is Ariana? And all my colleagues, I just, oh, my God, I wanted to die. Turned around and stared at me and pointed. Thank God they were clapping. It was supportive.

But I immediately turned red and I stood up and I was like, hi. And she goes, you and me got some talking to do. That's how we met. And what was that talking? Oh, eventually I came out of hiding. Yeah. And she took me to lunch and she was like, what do you want to know? I'll tell you anything you want to know.

And I just said, I want to know anything you want to tell me. Did you want to know things? I wanted to know things about her. Right. Sure. Her experience. Her experience. Her experience. She won an Oscar for it, right?

Yeah, she did. She's the first and the only Latina to win an Oscar. And you, like, if you won, it would be wild if you won the Oscar for the same part. Yeah, it would. It would be amazing, but also sort of a kind of a, it'd be a great thing, but it'd be kind of telling about the industry. Like the only Latina, you know, Oscar, like these Oscars for the same. For the same role.

Well, it could be interesting. It's not often that happens. In fact, I believe Anita would only be the third character for that to happen to. Have Latinas won Oscars since? Not for acting roles. Isn't that wild? So it would be, I think it would be incriminating in a way to like,

you guys, this is it? Two Anitas win in a hundred years? That is not a hundred years. Not quite a hundred years. But you know what I mean? Maybe 60.

It's interesting. But it is interesting. But I can tell you something. I choose to look at it this way because everything's choice. Yeah. If I'm the first of anything, that means I will not be the last. Sure. So it's like, if i'm the first of anything yeah that means i will not be the last

sure so it's like if if these things happen if the doors can open great yeah cool so now let's yeah bring more people build a longer table well that well that's the amazing thing about even watching the first one yeah the original because you know it's accepted as accepted as one of the best movie musicals ever, but because of the time, it was all brownface. Right. And that's just a reality. Correct. So the difference between then and now is profound. It is.

And honestly, what you just said, that's the reason you reimagined West Side Story, so that you can allow Latinos to play Latinos. That's right. Kind of period, point blank. We can revere the 61 film for craft, but that still doesn't mean they got everything right. Of course. So I don't know. I just think there's a lot of work to do,

but I'm excited that people are seeing West Side and embracing it. And Kushner gave everybody real lives. Yes. Connected so many dots. He built real, tangible, dynamic characters that it's a privilege to play. And they're characters that all different types of actors would give their eye teeth for this. Sure, sure. It's amazing.

Anita, arguably, is one of the greatest written characters of all time. But what Tony Kushner gave me was like the connected dots. And she is well written and it does not come along every day. Yeah. And what was your relationship with him during the shooting? How did that work when you guys are doing it? He's on set and he, oh my God, script is king for him. Yeah, I know.

And I do love that about him. But we're just very open. I was like, come, tell me what you're thinking. I was like, I dropped a line. I know I dropped a line. Do we need it? Like, we always had a dialogue. And Spielberg was like, what, the three of you going over stuff?

I mean, it's never just three. It's like seven. But yeah, it's very collaborative. And there wasn't a moment where they couldn't walk up to me or I could go to them and be like, this doesn't feel right. Why does it feel right? And then we'd look at it on the page or watch it back on playback and work it out. I think we all understood we could not get to the finished product without each other. You know, Stephen said something really cool today.

He was like, in this industry, this facet of the industry, there's no headliner. It's like, there's no one below, there's no one above. We're all on the same plane. And I was like, for Steven Spielberg to feel that way. In a musical? No, in general. In general. In this industry and how we celebrate each other's work and how we view each other.

He's like, there's no headliner. There's no above the line. There's no below the line. There's just the line. I was like, that's cool. That's how he treated us on set. That was his process. There was no above or below the line.

There was just the line. It's an interesting project for him to just to decide to do, isn't it? I think it took him, you know, so it took a long time for him to get the courage to finally do it. And he said the other day he almost backed out of it. His wife, Kate, had to be like, you're going to make this movie. Yeah. So now you're an actress. Yes.

I know it's like you're in the middle of this whirlwind. When are the Oscars? March 27th. That's soon. It is. So what has come, what has happened since, like, are you getting offers? I am, actually. And it's nice.

I've never really gotten offered anything before. Are they musical driven? No, they're not. And it's so great. Sorry, I shouldn a feedback that's right um they're not um i was actually really worried that yeah well because like i did the prom at a schmigadoon and now west side story and i was like that's a lot of musicals and i want to try something new i want to challenge myself yeah so it's been really heartening the things i'm being offered oh great thing to do oh good goals do you have is there part of you that wants to do do you want

to have a a recording career maybe just waiting for the right opportunity i'm not trying to be lady gaga i just want to sing i like singing right um i'm i don't i by no means consider myself a pop star right but i But I do love making music. And when I do my cabaret shows, because I have done them and I enjoy them so much, I treat my audience like they are in my living room. Yeah. So welcome to my living room. It could be fun.

Well, I haven't seen a show that's a cabaret show, really. Really? Have you? Oh, no. Like a special shot as a cabaret show, even on Really? Have you? Oh, no. Like a special shot as a cabaret show, like even on HBO or something? I feel like it is. I guess Bette Midler did some stuff at some point.

She did stuff like that. Liza Minnelli's done stuff like that. Well, then you have the variety show, the Sonny and Sheriff and all. Yeah, but that's a little different. It's a little different, but I'm like, I don't know. People like that kind of thing.

Yeah, they do. There might be a space for it. Well, someday. Yeah. Well, I don't know. People like that kind of thing. There might be a space for it. Well, someday. I wish you all the breaking legs. Thank you. I appreciate that. It was great talking to you. You too. You did a great job. You are awesome.

By the way, you're really beloved. I can't tell you how many people were like, wait, you're going to do a Mark Maron show. Oh my God. You need to be chill you need to be chill I'm like I am chill you're making me not chill

like really yeah you are so beloved well that's nice to know I need to hear that occasionally thank you you are welcome okay

okay that's me and Ariana DeBose as I said earlier west side story is now streaming on disney plus and hbo max also available on digital and blu-ray and now i'm going to attempt to play some slide guitar because i had bonnie rayton here the other day and she tuned up one of my guitars to an open tuning the strings are too light and the action is too low, but I got off on it. And this is me just fucking around with a slide because Bonnie Raitt tuned my guitar for me. Thank you. guitar solo guitar solo Boomer lives. Monkey in La Fonda. Cat angels everywhere.

You can get anything you need with Uber Eats well almost almost anything so no you can't get snowballs on uber eats but meatballs and mozzarella balls yes we can deliver that uber eats get almost almost anything order now product availability may vary by region see app for details it's a night for the whole family be a part of kids night when the toronto rock take on the colorado mammoth at a special 5 p.m. start time on Saturday, March 9th at First Ontario Centre in Hamilton. The first 5,000 fans in attendance will get a

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