WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1317 - Flea

Episode Date: March 28, 2022

The Red Hot Chili Peppers have been around for almost 40 years and Flea has been there for every minute of it. He and Marc talk about Flea's jazz-based upbringing that made him the bassist he is today, the various incarnations of the band, and the current reunion with multi-time bandmate John Frusciante for their new album, Unlimited Love. Flea also talks about the heartbreak of losing the Chili Pepper's founding guitarist Hillel Slovak to drug addiction and the demons the rest of the band have fought to overcome. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Lock the gates! all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fuck nicks what the fuck stirs what's happening i'm mark maron this is my podcast wtf welcome to it it's been going on a while right now, I'm missing a giant tooth in the back of my head. They pulled a tooth out of my head on Friday. Man, it was... I don't know what they did, but it's gone. The entire thing is gone. I got one sad little molar in the back top right side, sitting back there by himself without his buddy his buddy's gone it was it wasn't traumatic but there was a bit of buzzkill there was a bit of buzzkill maybe i'll tell you why not why can't i tell you let me just do this so i don't space this shit out

flea is on the show today okay he's been's been part of the Red Hot Chili Peppers for 40 years now. Flea. That guy. They got a new album coming out this week. Some of you know he was on once before back in 2015 along with Robert Trujillo from Metallica. But they were there mainly to talk about that documentary they made about Jaco Pastorius. to talk about that documentary they made about Jaco Pastorius. So this is really a full talk with Flea about Flea.

This is actually the third shot at this. I was supposed to talk to Flea years ago. I just remembered this. I did an interview with Tom York from Radiohead when he was recording out at Rick Rubin's mansion or whatever it was. One of the Rick Rubin properties, not the Malibu one, but I think they called it the Houdini house, but it wasn't actually the Houdini house. But anyway, I get there and Flea's ill. He's not coming that day. And it was just me and Tom York and it worked out great. Then the next time was at Trujillo time. That's the other time I talked to Flea. And I think I could get either of them on their own. What I'm trying to say is this is the third time that it's either happened

or it almost happened. And this is a full talk with Flea. It was great. Also, a new batch of WTF cap mugs go on sale today. These are the handmade mugs I give to my guests. But if you're not a guest on my show, you can still get one directly from Brian Jones, the guy who makes them. New mugs are on sale today at noon Eastern time at BrianRJones.com slash WTF. They go fast. So if you want one of those mugs, get it. Get the mug. So anyways, I had to get this tooth pulled.

It's not great. And I think the antibiotics are making me nauseous. I did a run of antibiotics when I had the COVID because the doc said I might have a sinus infection. Not realizing I have to do the same ones. Does amoxicillin make you nauseous or am I dying? What's happening? So I go to get this tooth out. I walk over there because you can't.

They're going to drug me. They're going to put me under. They're going to give me an IV. They're going to give me a drip't they're going to drug me they're going to put me under they're going to give me an iv they're giving me a drip they're going to knock me out i'd gone in once before not realizing i couldn't eat and they were like you want to do it on just local i'm like there's no fucking way that you're going to rip this out of my head on local and i'm going to experience the visuals of that i can't handle it. And I can handle things. So I walked down there, the dentist not far from my house. And I'm just looking, they bring me in, they put me in the chair and I look that the equipment that they were laying out, I made the right choice. I had this root canal back

there that had a crown on it. And the root, the dead tooth that was a root canal working as the post was rotting. So I had to have that ripped out of my head and put an implant in. So the deal was they'll rip it out of my head, and then they're going to put some grafting goo in there, and I guess in five months they'll screw the implant in there, something like that. So I'm there looking at this equipment, and it's not great. I was prepared to die. I was prepared to die. and it's not great. And I was prepared to die. I was prepared to die. I went in because I get nervous about anesthesia. And I'm like, boy, something could go wrong. I'm nervous about

my heart. I'm about, I don't know. This could be the accident that ends it, but at least I'll be out. I'll be out of it when it goes down. So I was prepared to die. And I went there and I looked at all the equipment. I'm like, thank God I'm going to be not awake. So they give me the IV. I go under, but I'm kind of a little in and out. Like I kind of woke up a couple times, but I didn't feel anything. And I realized that they'd also given me local. But damn, man, that shit is, you go out. but damn, man, that shit is, you go out. So then I'm up. They did it. I got a mouthful of gauze. I'm in the waiting room. Kit the cat girl comes to pick me up. I'm sitting there in the room. I got a good buzz on. I got a freebie. That's what they call it in the sobriety racket. I got a good buzz going, just sitting there coming down, coming off the anesthetic, just sitting there coming down, coming off the anesthetic, feeling a little loopy, but feeling relaxed, feeling open, you know, feeling like everything's okay. Got a good freebie on and kids sitting there. Then the doctor comes and starts giving me instructions about what I can

and can't eat about, you know, the medication I got to take about being careful with the hole in my mouth, about how well it went. But he's just talking. It was all helpful stuff. But in that moment, I'm like, dude, dude, you got to chill. You just got to chill a little. All right, I'm enjoying this.

And I've got to be honest with you, all these instructions and things I got to do, rules and whatnot, kind of a buzzkill, Doc. It's kind of a buzzkill. So, you know, Kit's listening. But if you don't mind, I'm going to enjoy the rest of my freebie. And I did. I did.

All right, so Flea is here. And he's a good guy. And I've helped him out. I've hosted his music conservatory benefit a few years. I don't know if I can handle it again conservatory benefit a few years now. I don't know if I can handle it again, but it was great to hang out with him because he has been through a lot and he's a humbled guy. He's a humbled guy. The Chili Peppers new album, Unlimited Love, comes out this Friday, April 1st. You can get it wherever you get music. And this is me talking to

Flea. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Yeah, I don't miss that house, and I don't miss that neighborhood, and I don't know why.

Is it too loud? Is it okay? Um, feels good. It feels good? Feels good, yeah. Yeah, sometimes you're just done with a place. I get it. I'm a moving motherfucker, man. Like, all the time.

You do? I don't know why. It always is like a relationship ends, something crazy happens. It's always a fucking reason. Yeah. But it's like every three, four years. Really? Yeah.

What about all your shit? My shit all goes. It's in store. But I just, like, did a move, like, during, I think since I last saw you. Yeah. I got married. No, I was already married since I last saw you yeah I got married no I was already married when I last saw you right I think maybe how long you've been married I've been married just over uh like two years yeah well maybe yeah it would have just been before right

before the pandemic yeah before that but I think the the fundraiser before that, I met my wife at. Right. Yeah. I met her there. What does she do? She's a designer. Right. Like a designer of what kind?

What kind of designer? Just like shoes, clothes. I think, yeah. I remember. Yeah. I met her the last time we did it. The last one that we did was with Eddie Vedder was there. Right.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We were together then. Is it second wife third wife um second yeah yeah i got married the first time in 1988 um shotgun wedding yeah yeah full-on pregnant 19 year old wow yeah i was 24 oh my god yeah but you did it you stepped up yeah no i loved her yeah i loved her and we have a 33 year old daughter who's just the most amazing human being on the planet she's 33 now yeah isn't that crazy yeah and and just like a ray of light man really what does

she do she's a photographer uh-huh yeah Yeah, and she does lots of fashion stuff. She does her art stuff, her own things, but she works in fashion a lot. She made a short film that went to Sundance a few years ago. Yeah. She's a director and a writer and just a cool person, just like a kind, considerate, smart. Do you feel like a dad or just like a dude she knows? A dad. A dad.

You do? Yeah. That's good. Yeah. No, it doesn't. Do you have kids? I don't.ate, smart. Do you feel like a dad or just like a dude she knows? A dad. You do? Yeah. That's good. Yeah. No, it doesn't. Do you have kids? I don't. Oh, okay.

But I know my relationship with my parents. Yeah. It's kind of weird. Like, I don't, like, I know they're my parents, but they're just sort of these weirdos I grew up with

that had problems. It might be like that, too, for her and not for me. Yeah. But I was concerned that when she got older, she wouldn't be my little girl anymore.

Right. But she's still my little girl. It happens it happens yeah even though now we talk about like you know louis benuel and you know and yeah yeah yeah you know social issues and stuff yeah it's but you always had a good relationship with her all the way through teenage years were a little rough but that's just normal but i mean there was no sort of like weird like you know she didn't see you for years on end. No, no, never. Yeah.

And with the mother too? You're all right? Yeah, no, I'm good. Like her mother was an awesome person, became a rehab counselor. Oh, yeah. Is like really successful and awesome at her job

in that world. Yeah. And it's just like profoundly spiritual person. And helping people. Yeah, helps people. It's interesting, like the people that, because I'm sober too, you you are like but there are people that like you know lock

into it like bob forrest you know who are like just sober wizards yeah and everybody knows for a while oh she did yeah at his place or whatever no they worked at their own place at a different place in pasadena you know one thing about her yeah her is that I've lent so much money to so many people in my life, and no one has ever paid me back, ever, ever. Like, I don't loan money anymore. I'll give it to someone if I have it, if I can. Give it to them. You know, but I won't loan because they don't pay back, and it ruins a friendship.

It does, and it's a weird thing about that because everyone tells you that. If you loan somebody money, you're not going to get it back, like if it's a friend. Yeah that because everyone tells you that if you loan somebody money you're not going to get it back like if it's a friend yeah and it's just and they might mean to but but the thing is that like i lent her like you know a substantial amount of money at one point and like i know she you know she makes she works hard yeah makes a salary not a lot of money she gets by you know her and her husband yeah and like 10 years later comes a knocking on the door, hey, here's that money. Like I know that she cut like a few hundred here, a few hundred, 50, and did it and paid me back.

Well, you know, when you're sober, you got to make that shit right, or else you got to apologize for it. Yeah, you got to own up to your shit. I'm sorry, you're never going to get that money back. I feel bad about it, but I want to take responsibility for my side. But you're never going to get that money back. I feel bad about it, but I want to take responsibility for my side. But you're never going to fucking get your money back.

Yeah, you're fucked, but I'm sorry. But I own up to it. Exactly. So that's the only kid you have? You have other ones? I have two kids. I have a 16-year-old daughter as well. So that's like a whole second shot at it.

You're doing it differently? Yeah, I mean, I'm better now, I think, as a human being. But a different woman, right? Different woman and entirely different kid with a different worldview and a different time. They're 17 years apart. But just a beautiful kid. Yeah? Yeah.

And do you spend a lot of time with her? Yeah, yeah. Yeah? Yeah, yeah. Who's the mother of that one? Her name's Frankie. Yeah. Yeah, it's her mom.

Just her mom? Yeah, I don't feel like I, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you can't. Yeah. But you get along with her, though? Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, for the most part. Yeah, we do good.

We do good. So this, like, this new record, I didn't realize that you guys, like you've recorded so many records with Ruben. Like over and over again with that guy. Yeah. The last one is the first one we haven't done with him since Blood Sugar in 1990. The Getaway. Yeah, The Getaway.

You didn't do with him. We did with Danger Mouse. And how was that a different experience? Completely different in the way, like the big, it's really a philosophical difference. Yeah. In that Rick, and I think what makes Rick great outside of just like an insult, an insight and a degree of objectivity that just is born of his state of being is that what Rick does and the reason that he's able to make such a varied, like a wildly varied quantity of music from like the early hip hop stuff he made to Slayer, to Johnny Cash, to Bangles, to us, to Tom Petty, to like, you know, spiritual hippie

music, you know, like all this stuff is that he doesn't have a thing. Like, it's not like, oh, here's my Rick Rubin sound. Yeah. And I'm Phil Spector and this is what it sounds like. And this is me. He sees what the essence is of the thing that he loves. He has to love it or he doesn't do it. Right.

He sees what that thing is and then does his best to help you bring that thing out. Well, I think that his thing is some sort of naturalism. Like I think his thing is to not get in the way because there's a lot of stuff you know especially with the the stripped down stuff he does with the older artists that where you're like this is just it's almost like jazz production where you're not putting anything on it you're just letting the guys be in a room yeah let him be in a room yeah his thing like this particularly with us is he was the first person that let us do that and this was our fifth record blood sugar sex

magic that we made with him and every time we had been into the studio before we'd tense up it would be like okay now it's the studio and it's serious and there's this big huge board and all these blinking lights and knobs and you had you had you had done work you'd work with clinton george clinton yeah george george yeah george was different george we were just high. We didn't even know. I was like, whoa, look at the knobs. You know, I mean, it was really fun. What was that, Up With Mofo Party? No, that was Freaky Stylie with George. And that was a fantastic experience.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But different. You know, it was less organized. Did you learn any tricks from George? Yeah. Like, I mean, like- More like little things he would say. Yeah.

You know, little things he would say. Like, he'd have, like, someone come in to arrange the horns. Fred Wesley, right? The great Fred Wesley from the JBs. And he'd be, like, Fred came in the night before to do a horn arrangement. He goes, yeah, don't give him too much time. As soon as he starts thinking, he's going to start doing all these incredible orchestrations,

but first thought, best thought, like that's what funk is. You know what I mean? Yeah. Trusting your gut and just letting that flow. Yeah.

And I know his gut is beautiful, so just let him do the first thing he hears, write it down, boom, record that shit tomorrow. Right. Things like that,

you know, and like him saying, like talking about playing live, like he was like, how when they first blew up, you know, when they had the Mothership come out in the mid 70s. And it was like they had been playing for already for years and years, touring on, playing clubs, playing theaters, doing whatever they could. And all of a sudden they're playing these big arenas and they blew up. And he said, he's like, I always told everyone, like, just don't be intimidated by the front of the stuff that you see.

Play to the last person in the last row. Open yourself up and think like that and let that energy flow. I need more of that in my life. Because you focus on the front row, you're going to see the one guy that's looking shitty. And you're going to be like, oh, fuck. Are we fucking up? And you're literally playing for this one dude that you think you're disappointing in front of, what, 15,000 people? Yeah. Well, I always have this thing where i think about the one person i'm there like yeah you know like they're like playing in minneapolis at first avenue and they said prince is coming tonight yeah

and the whole show all i can think about is prince is gonna like this bass line or oh i messed up prince is gonna be he's gonna think i'm not you know i'm a funky white boy oh you know like i'm just like all these thoughts. I don't even know if he came. I have no idea. But many times with certain people, like much less. Who'd you get nervous around? I talked to Bootsy.

It was on Zoom. And, you know, the mic was kind of in and out. And he's wearing his hat and his glasses on Zoom. And I'm like, no one's going to see this, bro. Yeah, he's Bootsy. He's Bootsy. I was talking to Chris Rock the other day, and he was saying how he once worked with James Brown

on an episode of Miami Vice. Yeah. And that James Brown showed up, and it was like, you know, 7 a.m. call for Miami Vice or whatever, showed up in the morning, like, completely gig-ready, like, in a full-body pantsuit, like, glittery, you know, thing, his hair done, like, everything, to, like, you know, get in Miami Vice wardrobe

and do whatever he was going to do. But that was his morning outfit. It just, you know, it's like, hey, he's James Brown, and Bootsy's Bootsy, and you know what I mean? It's like a legacy that they take seriously. But, like, outside of Bootsy and only the couple other producers, I mean, it's like all Rick Rubin stuff, man. Oh, yeah.

Yeah, I'm sorry to go on such a tangent. So the thing, the difference between Rick and someone like Danger Mouse is Rick takes the artist, wants to make them bring out the thing that they do the best that they can be, and hopefully help them arrange the songs where the essence of the song, which is the thing that's magic about it, shines. Yeah.

As opposed to burying it in the outro, or like we might do, like, oh, that's a cool part, we save it for the end. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Whatever it is. Whereas Danger Mouse is more of a guy like, he has a sound. Yeah.

All his records sound like Danger Mouse. Yeah. You know what I mean? And you wanted that. We're to try something different, you know? And with the lineup that he had at the time with Josh and

Klinghoffer. Yeah, it was Josh Klinghoffer. Yeah, and Josh and Brian Danger Mouse were close and had worked together a lot before

and it just seemed like a fun way to go about it. So what's it like being with Frusciante back? So beautiful, man. It's so beautiful. It was, you you know it was difficult to to to make that transition to let go of josh who is not only a great musician but is like an incredibly

supportive yeah good guy bandmate a good dude dude that shows up and like he'll like you know you've heard a rehearsal tape and he'll like drive across town in the middle of night to bring it to you because once you hear that idea like just a caring, supportive, like all in dude. But, you know, John, he was just born to do this, man. Yeah. He was born to do it. To be a chili pepper? Yes.

To be the guitar player and the chili pepper. Just like the way that he functions in relationship to the rest of us. It makes like we're all so different than one another, but it makes every one of us be ourselves as much as we can be. And every part is taken care of. And it's difficult, too, because we're all different and we see things differently and we argue and because we're all being something completely different to the table. And it's so heavy because like musically, you're a trio. Yeah, yeah. In that way, yeah.

And so, right, just instrumentally, you know, I mean, Anthony sings. But, I mean, that's, you know, everyone's got to really show up for work. Yeah, and show up and be a fucking hero. Yeah. You know what I mean? And John's like, man, he's intense. He's an unbelievably, you know, virtuosic musician as well as has an encyclopedic knowledge of music. Because since he was a little boy,

if he liked somebody, like say he liked, you know, the Germs, or liked Yngwie Malmsteen, or Steve Vai, whoever it is, he didn't just like that person and learn every single note they ever played in their lives. He found out who they liked and found all those people,

learned every note they ever played in their lives and who they liked, and it goes all the way back in history really like he's a studier man he is a serious diligent dude and everything that he gets into whether it's you know electronic music or it's classical music or it's rock guitar playing or whatever it is is he just studies man he's focused and he has the ability to do it for 10 hours. Right, but in his playing, he lets it happen. He doesn't seem like he's insecure or acting like anybody else, really. He seems pretty laid back in his groove.

Well, absolutely. I think he's really come to a place, too, where he doesn't need it all in any way to prove the power. It's like the thing of like a monk playing one note and you feel that he can play 10 million notes. It's like John is so comfortable in himself as a musician that he doesn't need to prove it. It's all there. His approach to this record, he did so much on this record. Like the guitar playing, all these synths and orchestrations and ideas all the background vocals but it comes from a really humble place like he just wants to serve the music in the most beautiful way and he can just play this simple liquid thing

that he doesn't need to show oh you know all the things that he knows yeah i mean the first album that i ever got of of of yours it's weird because like you know and i hear that with john i mean i understand how you guys all fit but the first the first record i ever got when i was working in a coffee shop i guess it was 19 shit i don't even know when that came out but it was a uplift uh mofo party point okay well that's with halal right i know and and the thing about like halal is like that band that you guys were at that time that seemed to set the standard didn't it? Like in terms of like templates of who we were. Yeah. Yeah, I think you know from the beginning we had we had

Tapped into a thing that we loved just from our reference points growing up, right, you know And it was from like music that was exciting us at the time Yeah, temporary music like hip-hop. And we really loved English post-punk. We really loved the no New York kind of New York thing that was happening at the time. And the funk bands, like the Contortions and the Lounge Lizards and Defunct and all of that stuff that had this beautiful thing of jazz and funk and R&B and hip hop with this real noisy dissonant you know and punk rock and all that P-funk like everything that we loved and it's really like Halal and Jack grew up loving Kiss and Aerosmith and classic rock I grew up hating that stuff I grew up loving Louis

Armstrong and John Coltrane and Miles Davis and Dizzy Gillespie because you had it in the house yeah I grew up my stepdad was a jazz musician, and that was what I was around. Yeah. And that was from when I was a little kid, and I saw my stepdad play in the living room with his jazz buddies in New York. I was just rolling on the floor in hysterics, in a state of ecstasy at what was happening. How old were you then? Seven. Where were you born? I was born in Australia.

But you're not Australian, are you? Well, I left when I was four. Do you have a, can you still live there? Yeah, I still have an Australian passport. You do? You just keep it up to date? Yeah, man. Yeah, when he might have to go.

Yeah, dude. He got that in the back burner. Back burner, I'm out ski. Yeah, yeah. So do you ever go back there, though? I do. I do whenever I can. My father, you know, I have a lot of family there who I don't know that well.

Really? Because I didn't grow up with them. They had like a whole slew of, you know, aunts and uncles and cousins and nephews and nieces. What's the real name? My name? My name is Michael Peter Balzery. Balzery. B-A-L-Z as in zebra, A-R-Y.

And it's a Hungarian name? It is a Hungarian name, but whenever I go to Hungary, like we'll go play Budapest. Yeah. I always, like I'll ask them and they'll be like, no. But I think, you know, immigration, they had like their version in Australia. Right. Of like Ellis Island, but the name would just get fucked up in the transit. So you think it got.

I think it did, yeah. But my dad, I don't know my think it did yeah but my dad i don't know my my family tree well but my dad tracked it down to a little village in hungary yeah aside yeah and he just knows that when they came from ireland and hungary to australia you know because the potato family mom's from ireland no my dad's family is from ireland and hungary okay australia and my mom's family's from the north of eng, from Yorkshire. So you have a good relationship with your old man? Yeah, really good. It's difficult when, you know, because he left when I was really young, when I was about seven.

And he left and went back to Australia. And my mom remarried a jazz musician guy. Wow. Who's my stepdad, who was the guy that I was around. And that reconfigured the brain that that reconfigured the brain totally reconfigured the brain like in a way that my my father worked for the Australian government we had to come from Australia to New York because he had a four year assignment at the Australian consulate he was a straight up and down suit briefcase to work every day on the subway came home you know we lived in the suburbs dinner at seven that was it set the table no like real straight and then my mom like was, you know, we lived in the suburbs, dinner at seven. That was it. Set the table, no, like real straight. And then my mom like,

was like, you know, getting a wild hair, man. She came from provincial Australia where that would have been the dream.

You'd have a street thing and you'd go cocktail parties, everything was solid. Yeah. And then my, she met, you know, she started like,

took off for, like, I think it was the Woodstock, but some jazz festival. It was the one they had up in upstate New York where Duke Ellington did the famous. Newport? Newport Jazz Festival. Saw Miles, you know.

Oh, yeah. All that. Came back in a dashiki. She went to New York on her own? Well, no. We went with my dad and my mom, and we all went together. My dad. But then my mom started branching out.

And anyway, she, you know, my parents split up. My mom took off for the jazz musician. My dad went back to Australia without us, you know, brokenhearted as kids and wife. Gone. You know, my mom left him. And, um, but my, so then we moved from my dad in a suburban house, real straight to a heroin addict jazz musician who lived in his parents' basement.

We went there. Yeah. Wow. And that was it. And that was at the point where it was like, do whatever you want. Yeah. You know what I mean?

I'll see you. I'm going out in the street. I'll be home at three in the morning. Yeah. The next day, it was like, hey, how you doing? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, just not the greatest parenting skills.

No. No, but... Yeah, but you know, but I'm so grateful for that, too. Like, yes... how you doing? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just not the greatest parenting skills. No. Yeah. But, you know, but I'm so grateful for that too. Like, yes. Well, you survived. I survived one. Two, I found myself on my own. You know what I mean?

Yeah. No, I get it. But also be inspired by that sort of like where creativity and addiction are the priorities. Yeah. That's the whole life yeah right that you know as negative as that sounds it is there's a freedom to it it's selfish but it enabled you to sort of figure out who you were i had to figure it out on my own because no one was doing it for me and in ways you got a sister too right i have an older sister as well yeah yeah she's an awesome person i met her i met her at the oh great at the uh benefit oh great a couple times yeah we sat at the same table oh cool character yeah yeah she's a character absolute character was she drinking

a little she became more of a character and i went on i love my sister so okay so you're doing that you're you're just out in the street. You're eight years old. Yeah, and we moved to LA when I turned 11 for his music career. And did he have one? Very minimal.

It was like... Well, he was a jazz musician. He just wanted to play jazz. What did he play? A bass. A bright bass player. So it really made an impact. Yeah, no, intensely.

And I think often how much I approach music like he did, and in terms of my strengths and my weaknesses. Like what? And stuff like that. I'm not that great of a soloist. I'm really working on it right now, actually. I want to get better. You're pretty good, though.

No, thank you. I mean, I do my best. Where are the insecurities? I mean, how do you define being a soloist? I hear like Thundercat solo or Mono Neon or Jocko or the great soloists. Yeah. And I never learned those patterns, those ways in and around all those chord changes and stuff. Yeah.

Like I just didn't do it. Like I was more like when they were like studying and learning all those cerebral parts of music, I was like in a van sleeping on people's floors. And you were playing- Motel 6 was playing punk rock gigs. Exactly, but you were the rhythm section, so your sensibility was different. But I can groove like no one's business.

Yeah, I know. You know what I mean? Yeah. And my stepdad was like that. When I look back, it's only recently dawned on me, but I remember watching him play, and he played with really great jazz guys in new york yeah i'd see him play and he'd be like playing those fast

bebop bass lines you know you know what i mean yeah yeah going going going for a long time yeah you know what i mean serious man hard as a bottomless pit of monster fucking groove. Like, you can't even believe it. And I was so in awe. Even as a little kid, I knew. And everyone would solo over the changes, right? They'd play the head. Then all the jazz guys take their solos, you know?

Yeah, yeah. I love the way jazz guys stand around while the other guy's playing. Yeah. Just kind of smoke a cigarette, wait it out. Go off, get a drink, you know, hit on this dude, whatever. Yeah. You know, read a book, anything. Yeah.

But when it would come his time to solo, he would keep that ferocity, but it would just kind of like, I'd see him kind of seize up. Choke, yeah. You know, like, it wasn't like he'd choke, it was just his approach. He'd be like, bling, bling, bling, bling. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah.

It was cool, but. Yeah. And I realized I kind of do the same thing. Huh. You know what I mean? You think it's an insecurity? Maybe. I think, yeah, I think part of it is, like, and I realized I kind of do the same thing. You know what I mean? You think it's an insecurity? Maybe. I think, yeah, I think part of it is, like I've noticed that in myself, sometimes like,

oh, I'm not that good at that. And I'll, like once I was playing with Ornette Coleman for a little bit. Really? And there was one- How old was he when you were playing with him? Towards the end of his life. You know, the last, I played with him a few times over the last like eight, nine years of his life.

That must've been challenging. I mean, he's out there. Yeah, it was beautiful. It was an incredibly great experience. What kind of freedom does that give you to play with Ornette Coleman? What's the responsibility of the bass player in that situation? Was it a trio? No, it was a pretty big band.

He had two bass players, two drummers. Okay. Oh, no, one drummer. I'm sorry. Electric bass and upright bass. How do you approach that, though? What are you thinking when you're playing with Ornette? Well, the thing is, when I thought, when I got ready to play with him, his son, Donardo,

who's kind of the band leader, who plays drums with him, Donardo sent me all his songs to learn. And, you know, I know Ornette music, but so I, for months, I was learning these complicated pieces of music. I got there and Ornette was like, just play whatever you want, whatever you feel at any time. But you were prepared. Yeah.

But just looking at him and him telling me that, I never felt so free in my life. You know what I mean? And playing it, I was really happy with the way I played. I felt so free and so good and on top of my game. And I was really connecting with the dudes. Yeah. We played with the master musicians of Jujuka and Salif Keita and Patti Smith and it was this whole,

all these people. It was just so fun. And, you know, real like, like really uplifting experience. But then, towards the end of his life, right before he died,

he had a show at Central Park in New York and I went and played and he didn't actually play. I didn't play with him. I'm not sure if he got up and played or not. Yeah. But it was with his band and his son and played and he didn't actually play. I didn't play with him. I'm not sure if he got up and played or not. But it was with his band and his son

and we were practicing and all these guys great free jazz guys were playing solos really like great shows. And then Donato was like, point to me, go. Man, I just seized up. Started playing like shit. I just got scared. You know what I mean? And it's so

part of my musicianship that I'm working on developing. So, but what's the process of that? You're just learning the runs? Yeah, I mean for me, I'm just trying to just like, instead of just, I'm just like, yeah, like just soloing. Like last night I was playing, or the night before I was playing,

soloing over What's Going On by Marvin Gaye. Like just playing, you know, like playing through stuff. Just doing the thing that you did when you were a kid, you put the record on and you- Yeah, like just playing, you know. Just doing the thing that you did when you were a kid. You put the record on and you- Yeah, make up melodies, you know. But initially, so your approach, like once you guys moved to, well, what was the situation in the house?

How alcoholic and crazy was it? Very much so terrifying, you know, as a kid. He, you know, was extremely violent. He was, he would bash up the whole house and smash it to smithereens he so like you know he would he would just lose it the cops would come oh my god so you're in bed you don't know what's gonna happen i don't know yeah like i used to sleep in the backyard and stuff because i just didn't know you know what i mean like is he gonna lose it tonight it seems a little testy did he beat you up no he didn't oh so he didn't he abused the house he never did that he actually people he yeah yeah I think that you know or himself or I don't know if he ever hit my mom or not I'm not really sure I don't I feel like

it's like I it's not really my place to talk about yeah that stuff and other people but um it was it was scary and then he got sober He did? He got sober yeah He got sober And stayed sober? Yeah well he got sober When you got to LA or when? No years and years after that We moved to LA in 72

He got sober in like 1980? Were you part of that? Yeah I would go Like they made me go to Alateen Oh so you I would go to Alateen Yeah I got like kind of roped into it And I would go like I'd bring him his cake I got kind of roped into it, and I would go and bring him his cake

when he had his year thing. When did you start using? I started getting high when I was 11. Yeah. Weed? Weed at first, yeah. Yeah. Weed and acid.

That was when you got here? You were in L.A. already? Yeah. So you moved to L.A. from New York, and your stepdad's here for work. Yeah. Well, yeah, for a fresh start kind of thing. You know, it's like when you're a drug addict, mm-hmm and your dad's your stepdad's here for work yeah and you know for like a fresh you know it's like when you're a drug addict there's always a fresh start

somewhere but you know a guy yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah and did he integrate into the scene out here or what um he did somewhat you know I mean it's a tough scene man it's a small scene Right At that time I think And for jazz At that time as well You know I think that For people like him Was it like 72

72 Yeah 72 We came to LA November 14th 1972 And I think for jazz musicians At that time Who grew up

You know Like in the 40s And the 50s And the 60s Like admiring The jazz bebop Greats You know what I mean?

Like just like in studying and learning this extremely sophisticated music, you know? And then come like the 70s, no one gave a shit, man. You know what I mean? Things were shifting. They barely gave a shit then, but it had a lot more tension. It had tension and it also had like-

Well, people paid attention to it. Yeah, tension and attention. Yes. And it was like a rich bohemian culture that really loved it. Come the 70s, it was like, you know, unless you're a very select few, it was really hard to make any kind of a living. And also, fusion came. Fusion came. And like many like him, they really like kind of became bitter.

You know, like angry at the rock musicians. You see these guys who couldn't play at all, who are making billions of dollars. Right. You know, like angry at, you know, the rock musicians who they see, these guys who couldn't play at all, who are making billions of dollars. Right. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they just thought-

Didn't they get bitter about Fusion too? Yeah, I'm sure. I don't know. I can't remember him being, but it was definitely looked down their nose at everything except their thing to their detriment.

Yeah. Because the thing is, the guys who were really great who embraced everything had a chance of really reaching out and touching. Yeah. thing is, the guys who were really great, who embraced everything, had a chance of really reaching out and touching. And he was like many. Substance abuse problem.

You know, jazz musician who no one, you know. And he's doing like, you know, Holiday Inn lounges. And remember he got like the Princess Cruises gig, you know, playing for the Ink Spots. He was playing with a version of the Ink Spots. That must have just, I can't't imagine that that gig like those kind of gigs i see it in comedy or any kind of art form like you have to rationalize that how do you not stay bitter yeah i think

he was happy to get work okay you know what i mean because like he worked fixed cars in the backyard my mom worked as a legal secretary car guy huh yeah he knew how to fix cars you know he was mechanical so okay so now you're in la are you running the streets like wild yeah from when i i got to la smoking weed doing acid at 11 smoking weed yeah i don't think i first did acid till i was 15 with anthony when i met anthony yeah um how's he doing oh he's good man okay he's good he's like you know real focused on our thing right now yeah you know we got it we made this double record and we're psyched you know I know the record is great it sounds like a little bit everything you all do for the like it's a it's

it's it feels like a uh career record thank you do you know what I mean yeah like you know like you know we've done all this stuff and we can do all this stuff, and this is the evolution of all of this stuff. Yeah. It's just for us feeling like we just got into a room and we're ourselves at the best that we could be. Right. We're encouraging one another.

We're just the best that we are. Like, that's us. I can't say, like, put this record out. I can't say, well, you know, we did good at this, but we kind of like, no, this is as good as we are. Yeah, you know, you have to hold it live in a room live to tape, you know Yeah, yeah, we record live to tape, you know, we overdub and stuff afterwards course But but um, is that the Reuben way or did you do all your records like that? I mean did you I mean it's Ruben's Very good with it. Yeah, but he's also knows it's more convenient and easier to do stuff on computers in a lot of ways and sending files around and yeah but now we just we like that sound john like is very into to the way things sounds it has like his ears like you know like

a dog can hear someone whistling a mile away so you guys are in your your own little areas in the studio playing live together yeah we're all in the room together. Right. We just baffle off the amps. Yeah, yeah. Oh, okay, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we're all in the room together jamming. That's great. And try to leave room for a lot of improvisation.

And it's just a feeling that we aspire to. And that stuck? The improvisation stuck? You can hear them on the record? Oh, yeah, always. Oh, that's great. Always with us. The last record had the least of it ever.

Because we did with with Danger Mouse we like looped drums over and up on top tried doing it a different way and you know it has its positive things

there's nothing wrong with making music like that it's just different when did the music start really becoming a part of your life was it when you were 15 when you were

like what did you start with no I read some stuff I know some things but I'd rather you tell me. Well, like when I first heard my stepdad play jazz when I was a little kid, I was deeply moved. I was taught, okay, here's a magic that exists that is up and beyond anything I've ever seen in my life. Jazz.

Jazz. It is kind of like that because it's weird because I listen to it and I'm trying to, over the last five know five or six years i've gotten into it uh as best i can i don't know everybody but it is something that if you have an ear for it and and you do connect with it it just continues to evolve with you yeah like the same record you listen like i can listen to uh you know uh uh the the the miles uh You know, the Miles... Kind of Blue? No. The one with Herbie, the first one... In a Silent Way. In a Silent Way.

Like, I can listen to that fucking over and over again and just be like, what the fuck? Yeah, dude. This morning, I listened to Kind of Blue. I was doing my morning exercise. I listened to Kind of Blue. And I've listened to that album probably more than any album in my whole life.

It's my comfort record. Right, right. And I just got this new pressing of it. of blue and i've listened to that album probably more than any album in my whole life yeah my comfort record right right and i just got this new pressing of it there's these guys that make these real high fidelity pressings they got old master tapes single step mastering i can't remember what it's called it's like o-h-r-u or something oh yeah yeah yeah i know some like this yeah yeah they make these real high quality pressings um it's not always, sometimes I like the old ones. Yeah, yeah. It's easier. I'm used to listening to it the old way.

But I put it on this morning and I was just like in awe. And I've listened to this record a thousand times. I know every note. Yeah, yeah. And I was just like sitting there like, you know, doing my setups and shit and just like,

like, oh my God, it's so beautiful. Like Bill Evans is piano playing. Oh, I just started getting really into him, man. Dude. What the fuck is that? What the fuck, you know? And his relationship with Miles, I think, is really beautiful.

And his liner notes, just his liner notes. You ever read his liner notes on Kind of Blue? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, like he likens that kind of improvisation to those Japanese painters who paint on that really delicate rice paper. And if you make one mistake, the whole thing, that's it. It's done. He learned a lot from Miles.

Like, I mean, you know, like. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Miles, man. So. Did you ever meet that guy?

I never did meet Miles, no. God, I would have been. Because, like, I just bought a bunch of Bill Evans. Like, I lock in and I just start getting the Bill Evans thing. Because, like, and also the fact that, like, you know, like, he was on the nod for, like, a lot of that shit. Yeah. And, like, that he was on the nod for a lot of that shit. Was he? I don't even know that part. He was strung out, like the rest of them.

But I start to feel that. Because there are dudes that are either going to get lost in the shit because they just get lost in the shit, or it's facilitated by dope. And I'm not saying that's a good thing, but it happened. Yeah. Well, certainly, look, we all know, you know, heroin is a soul sucking will steal all of your juice and leave you a fucking mess for the rest of your life. Yes.

But they're like anything. There's a reason why people kill themselves for it. Yeah. Well, there's a relationship with it that, you know, is never going to end well. But sometimes at the beginning and for a few years. Yeah. Hey, and look, don't do heroin, kids. But, you know, they had that living in that bubble blocking everything else out.

Right, right, right. Completely lost in the music where nothing else exists in the planet. Yes, yes. You know, and graded. It would be better to get there by, you know by doing your Zen meditation and stuff. But we can't pretend like that didn't age at certain times. Sure. So you're listening to that today, and you hear something new every time.

Every time. But when you were a kid, even though that was your inspiration, you didn't pursue it. Well, no, I did. As a youngster, I wanted just to be a jazz trumpet player yeah and i was a little wild like i probably didn't practice enough and stuff but i had a natural thing i'm a trumpet i could make a beautiful sound and um just when i was kind of getting to the point where i was it would have been i would have started ramping up because i would have gone somewhere to just work on that yeah right at that point i met hal Halal Slovak with Anthony. We became best friends.

So you met him after Anthony? Yeah, after Anthony. I met Anthony when I was 15. And I think when we were 16, we were out hitchhiking in North Hollywood one day. And Halal came driving by in his Datsun B210 listening to Rush. I had a B210. Yeah, okay. Awesome.

Was it olive green? No, it was kind of weird shit brown. I know that color. Yeah. It was my first car. It was the only car any of us had ever had. Oh, he's got a car and a tape deck and he's fucking cranking La Via Strangiata and picked us up. And we became best friends.

And then like, you know, months later, he was like, he was in a rock band, you rock band called Anthem in high school. And he didn't like the bass player. And months later, he was like, why don't you learn to play the bass and play? And I didn't like rock music at all. Because I just thought, look, rock music is for dumb people. Let's face it. It's for people who care about haircuts more than music. But did you get that from your stepdad?

Yeah, absolutely. All the way. You know what I mean? And when I was little, I didn't. At first, it was just all music. Charlie Parker, The Beatles. It was music. Sure.

It was beautiful. But I'd gone that, and I was a trumpet player. You know what I mean? And you're 15. I'm 15. Yeah. Yeah. But then I'd started going to go by his rehearsals.

They were playing in the friend's house. And I was like, God, they just do it with no teachers around. And they play stuff, and they're really having fun they act cool in front of the mirror were the girls hanging around yeah

you know there's girls that like the band and stuff and he was like look you know Todd the bass player

Todd Strassman he was like dude Todd's not serious about it doesn't really want to do this he's not ready

to give his life to it we're 15 you know and he's like why don't you learn to play the bass and be in a band? And I remember just sitting there

like feeling so, more than anything, loved. Oh, right. You know? Because I was always kind of a weird outcast kid. I'd have one best friend and that was it.

That was Anthony? It was Anthony, yeah. But I was like that in New York too when I was a kid. Well, that's a weird thing about growing up around the sickness of whatever selfishness that parents are like, is that there's an awkwardness to it.

I always felt kind of awkward and weird, and you just latch on to people in an overcommitted way. It was really always exhausting, I think, to be my friend, the one friend. Totally, yeah. Right? And then you get older, and you're just married. I know. Yeah, you know when you then you get older you just like married i know yeah you know hey you know latch on and then you don't know what to do once you're there then you're like don't touch me though yeah exactly and then you exhaust them and they go away yeah and you deal with your trauma you know what i mean and hopefully you feel it enough to like evolve through it you know no shit yeah that could take a lifetime dude yeah you know yeah talk to me

yeah um so you're there with, so you found your guys. So, yeah, you know, and he, so I started playing bass with Halal and- But would you just pick up bass? I literally just picked it up. Two weeks later, I was on stage at Gazari's on the Sunset Strip playing a gig. With a, who's bass? Two weeks later. Who's bass?

Your dad? I got one. Oh, you. Whose bass? Your dad? I got one. Oh, you just bought one? I got one. No, I borrowed one. I think the first one, I borrowed one from my friend Tree who I started the music school with.

Yeah. His father had a bass. His father played in Sha Na Na. Oh, yeah. He sang in Sha, like a later version of Sha Na Na, like the Bowser spot or whatever. And had a bass,

or a guild bass. And I'm pretty sure that was the first one and i just kind of went by the numbers hey there baby yeah have you heard the news one way woman i don't know if i jams one way woman yeah yeah and um and that was it man and then you know that changed my life you know and you stayed on the bass. I stayed on the bass. So I didn't go into being a jazz trumpet player at that point. Yeah, and that was the beginning of it.

So you were almost, what, entirely self-taught in that way? Yeah, absolutely, on the bass. Never had a lesson. Had one lesson. With who? A guy at the music school on Fairfax. I went in, and I remember he gave me the sheet music to take it easy by the Eagles And it was like, you know, I want you to learn this and I just didn't do it

I guess you know, yeah, I didn't like I'm gonna started liking rock music I just went right to like Hendrix was that was it, you know, I like Hendrix. I'll tell you on the Hendrix Uh-huh Because like the what I was gonna to say at the beginning of all this was that there was something about, specifically for me for some reason, the song, was it Behind the Sun? Behind the sun.

Do you do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do. Yeah, yeah, those riffs. That's a Hellel riff all day long. I know. But I feel like there's some spirit of that that goes all the way through, man. Yeah, thank you. Do you? Absolutely, yeah.

Because there's the funky stuff, but then it feels like all the stuff that's more psychedelic or more kind of lyrical in that way musically it kind of comes from that from that dude like you know look when when john joined the chili peppers he was 17 years old we're like um eight nine years older than john the rest of us and um and how you know he had seen the chili peppers numerous times as like a 15 year old or yeah 14 year old 16 i can't but right in there and he loved it and he loved Halal, you know? And Chili Peppers became his favorite band. And, you know, and then we met him and, you know,

he was just this unbelievably, like we couldn't even believe how capable he was and how focused and diligent and hard working. Now, like, what happens with all that? I mean, because I know there was a lot of people coming in and out of bands. You were in other bands. You played with Fear for a while,

you know, like, before the Chili Peppers. Yeah, I left. Anthem changed its name to What Is This? I didn't believe they were the new originals. And then, no, Anthem changed its name to What Is This? Yeah, yeah. And it became, like, more new wave, kind of prog rock new wave. Because what year is that? I mean, is it... is this? Yeah, yeah. And it became like more new wave, kind of prog rock new wave.

Because what year is that? I mean, is it- That's like 1981. So punk is sort of happening still? Punk is happening, and we were like decidedly not punk. We were like prog rock. And you're in LA.

But I started loving punk a lot. Because this is where it happened. Yeah, this is where it happened. And you were a kid in the middle of it? Yes. And then I was like and and and then I I one night I saw fear play I Dosed myself with a hit of acid went to the club lingerie saw fear play and was blown away

Because I mean there were such great musicians those guys Yeah Philo and spit and and I saw them play and I was just like man next I was like, oh I saw the greatest Sure, you wouldn't even believe it the guy the way the guys hands dance on the strings like yeah the drums spit and and i saw them play and i was just like man next i was like oh i saw the greatest show you wouldn't even believe it the guy the way the guy's hands dance on the strings like yeah the drums he was playing his beat in five four on oil cans it was insane you know what i mean and then and then literally like five days later i'm looking at the la weekly like i did every day to see who's playing where am i going at night because i went out every single night to see bands play. And I see a thing, fear looking for a new bass player.

Get out of here. And I went, hello? I'll be there. Yeah. And they hired me. And I was a kid. I was like, I was 18, 19. So you're learning on the job.

Yeah. But I'd already kind of got proficient at the bass. Yeah. And what is this? And they hired me. And I left what is this and started playing with them and i was with them for about a year and while i was with them started the chili peppers now like who like who are the bands that you're seeing all the time well how is your brain expanding around like because they're all the la punk bands are happening yeah i saw every single one of them

yeah and you knew them sometimes i. I wasn't, you know, I knew some. Later when Chili Pepper started, I started knowing people. Who did you go to see the most? Like, who were the ones where you're like, you can't fucking miss it? X. Oh, yeah. I loved X. I still love X. Nobody sounds like them, dude. They do not get

the credit they deserve. It's really a local phenomenon, and it's sad because the first three records Oh my God. The first three records are phenomenal records and like I was seeing this thing the other day

like it was on actually on Sports Talk Radio I listen to Sports Talk Radio and they're talking about what record is the most LA record of all time. And you know they got The Doors

they got NWA they got Dr. Dre they got and I'm just sitting there in the car going the greatest LA music of all time is X. Yeah. Period. Yeah. And that's no denying the greatness of Dr. Dre or The Doors or Jim Morrison.

Right. You know, those guys are great. Right. I love those records. Right. But from my experience, for me walking down the street as a kid with nothing in my pocket, thinking how I'm going to steal some food, it was X. Yeah.

I listened to those first few records recently. And the thing about it is, it's like, they're this strange kind of specifically American music that they wrenched out of the ether on their own. And nothing sounds like it. And the lyrics are so poetic. Yeah, those harmonies,ies do the way they sing together yeah everyone always made fun of vaccine's voice like i remember like what yeah it's the most beautiful thing i've ever heard and her like john doe with like a classic tenor like the two of them together those harmonies the way it went so i just saw them like six like six months ago no man i

haven't seen him in a long time i saw him in in Orange County. We went to an outdoor thing in the middle of COVID, me and my friend Dan. And they were great. They played with the Blasters. Who played guitar? Oh, Billy Zoom's playing, Rex. Yeah, yeah. He just sits down. Right.

He sits down and smiles. Man, he's incredible. Amazing. And I saw him play the start everywhere they played. I saw him constantly. But, you know, I would see everyone that played. That's the ones that I saw the most. Like i could get in i went yeah you know it was a hustle to get in you know but x wasn't really would would you call that because there was weirder

looser more raw punk going on yeah i mean like all the bands like youth brigade and channel three and red scare and um uh you know black flag i never Black Flag. I never saw The Germs. I never saw The Weirdos. Well, later I saw The Weirdos. But like at that time when I came in, it was kind of late.

Like that first wave of L.A. Punk. Yeah. Like The Great Bounce, like The Germs, The Weirdos, The Screamers. They're gone.

That's the 70s? They were already done. Right. Right. But then when I, when the Chili Peppers started and we started, you know,

like from the get-go, we, you know, we became in a very underground way popular in Los Angeles in 1983. Then I became, you know, got to know a lot of those people and was really happy about it, you know? So what were, like, let's go over these shifts in the lineup over the years. So when did you finally end up on the the lineup that sort of lasted with

chad on drum like you had other drummers right okay so we start off it's me anthony halal and jack yeah play our first ever show no rehearsal go play one song we had one song we played one song yeah we went crazy had a spiritual awakening the whole universe like zeitgeisted together into this thing and we knew it yeah. And then at that point, that became the focus of my life. Right. So then we had that. Then before we made our first record,

Jack and Halal were still playing in What Is This, the band that I had left, the high school band. They both left. Yeah. We got Cliff Martinez and Drum who had played in The Weirdos of Dickies and Captain Beefheart. Yeah.

And Jack Sherman on guitar. Yeah, who was... And still you and Anthony. And me and Anthony. Always me and Anthony. Yeah. And then we made the first record with them.

We went and did the first tour, first record, second record. Jack Sherman, Halal wanted to come back, so we said goodbye to Jack Sherman. We brought Halal back.

How much drama with all these? Every time drama. Every time I say one of those things, it's like me up, like dry heaving for days, puking with stress. Yeah. And even when I really knew it was the right thing to do. Yeah.

Always. Yeah. Hard, man. Yeah. Someone, you know, you play with someone, it's like vulnerable connected experience. Yeah. Even when you're really struggling with them. Yeah.

It is. You know? Because you're always yearning and reaching for this thing you know yeah but so then

we make the second record Freaky Styly with Cliff Martinez on drums and Halal yeah after that

that was with George Clinton in Detroit at United Sound yeah wild time and then I went and lived

with George for months on end and it was just wild first night I'm sleeping George lived on on a farm in Clinton, Michigan. I'm lying there. I'm asleep at night.

And, you know, I'm at like Dr. Frankenstein's house, sleeping on the floor in a sleeping bag, you know. In the morning, like crack of dawn, I hear like a gun. I'm like, what the fuck? I look up. I see George in his underwear. He has his own colored braids and shit up with a gun growing, running for the outside. Yeah.

And I'm like, oh my fucking God, what's going on? And he was going out to shoot a deer. He saw a deer and he was into hunting, eating wild game. Yeah. But you know,

it was just wild. Did he get it? I don't know. I can't remember. But he was, he was hunting. He was really into hunting and eating. In his underwear in the morning. He saw one and he was like, I'm going to go get that he was hunting. He was really into hunting. In his underwear in the morning.

He saw one and he was like, I'm going to go get that motherfucker. Yeah, yeah. He was up. Yeah. Yeah, okay. So then make Freaky Stiley. We tore Freaky Stiley.

Then after that, Jack wanted to come back. Halal leaves, Jack comes back. Yeah. So we have the original lineup. I mean, Cliff leaves. Yeah. Jack comes back. Cliff went on to have a great career making soundtracks in all the Steven Soderbergh

films. Oscar nominee. Great, awesome dude. And he's a great I love Cliff. So then we have the original lineup back for the third album. And then after the third album, which is Uplift, Mofo, Party Plan, with that lineup we go do on tour. We get back, Halal overdosed and died.

Now, was everybody strung out? Mostly Halal and Anthony went back and forth between being strung out. Yeah, but that wasn't your bag, that drug? I mean, it was, I just never got strung out. I like this stuff. I never, like, something in me always stopped me from going all the way. Oh, that's good. You know,

like I do heroin all the time. I did it, but I was always like, and I'd wake up the next day and feel too shitty to play basketball or do the stuff that I love to do.

Yeah. And I wouldn't do it again. Sweaty and queasy. Yeah, but then like 10 days later I'd be like, never again. You know, and then like 10 days later

I'd be drunk out of the bar and like someone would give me a line of blow and the next thing you know I'd do it again. Yeah. You know what I mean? Right, right.

And I think I made like once I did it two days in a row. Oh really? So you really could just chip? I chipped. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. So Halal died and that was devastating. I can't imagine. Absolutely fucking devastating. How old was he? 22? Fuck man.

26 I think. Wow. Yeah. And a beautiful think. Wow. Yeah. And a beautiful guy. Like, I still have these paintings he made and stuff. Like, he gave me for my birthday. He made these beautiful paintings, Mark. Yeah.

Like, so sensitive and gorgeous. Like, I have this one of this, like, a naked woman lying on a blanket with a cat curled up by her hips. Like, and he just did this all the time. Like, he was just this beautiful guy. That's so sad man yeah you know it's the torturedness of the pain that makes kids you know we didn't know yet it's like didn't get to that point of figuring it out yeah you know yeah so we lost halal yeah um which was hard for all of us um and then and jack who had started playing music on the exact same day

as halal yeah when they were kids kids after they had a Kiss cover band where they dressed up like Kiss. Yeah. Jack was heartbroken and left the band. Couldn't handle it? Too much. Did he quit music? No, he ended up being a drummer in Pearl Jam.

And he played with Joe Strummer. Okay. And he did stuff. He's a, yeah. Still around? Yeah, yeah, still around. Still around, still my friend. Yeah, actually on our last tour for our last record, he toured with us as a one-man act, one- Still around? Yeah, yeah, still around. Still around, still my friend. Yeah, actually on our last tour,

for our last record he toured with us as a one man act, one man show. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah. He makes these crazy psychedelic movies behind him, plays drums and just tapes. Oh, wow. Yeah, he's a wild man.

Okay. Yeah. Jack Irons. And then, so, then we go to make Mother's Milk. First, we got Chad. Where'd you get him? Because he seems like, you know.

Oh, no. Before we got Chad, we had D.H. Peligro. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I know D.H. Yeah. D.H.

Who played him in Dead Kennedys. And then we hired on guitar Blackbird McKnight from Funkadelic. Wow. Who was a friend of mine. Yeah. And so we had D.H. That's interesting, huh? Yeah. Wow. He was a friend of mine. Yeah. And so we had D.H. and That's interesting, huh? Yeah. And it just didn't

the reference points and stuff just didn't work out. Just whatever, chemistry stuff and so. On the musical set. Yeah, so then Blackbird left and we, and I didn't know why Blackbird, and then I met John. And I was like, damn, I remember calling

up Anthony, he was drying out up in Michigan. I was like, damn, I remember calling up Anthony. He was drying out up in Michigan. Yeah. I was like, dude, I met this kid. The guy jammed DH. He said,

you should come jam with my friend John. This kid's a kid. He can fucking rip. DH introduced you? Yeah. Yeah. DH introduced me.

They had been jamming. And I went and jammed with John and I was like, holy fuck. Yeah. Holy fuck. Yeah. This kid is good.

Yeah. Like scintillating. Yeah. And not just show off even though he was, he was a kid, but like, damn, you know? And- All strats, right? Yes.

At the time, he didn't play a strat. He had some, I don't know what it was. He had naked ladies all over it. Like some kind of modern, like kind of guitar. And I called Anthony, and Anthony came back. And then John Thelonious Monster picked him up, our friend's Bob. Yeah, Bob. He played with Thelonious Monster, Bob, and Pete.

And then Anthony saw him play with Monster and was like, we got to get that kid. And I was like, right? Yeah. And so we let go of Blackbird. We got John. And then we did a little tour with John and D.H. And then D.H., bless his heart, was dealing with some substance abuse shit.

And it was just you know not working out and so we we met chad who denise zoom who called denise zoom because she was married to billy zoom of x for some time yeah told us i know a guy who eats drums for breakfast yeah and that was chad yeah and we met chad he seems like he eats drums yeah yeah and he does eat drums for breakfast we went chad and, and then we made Mother's Milk with Michael Beinhorn, who had also produced Uplift Mofo Party Plan, who we liked because he was in Material, the band with Bill Laswell that we really liked a lot. And Mother's Milk was the first big record, right?

Yeah, and we hadn't really connected. I feel like John hadn't really come into his own yet. He was still trying to fit in as opposed to just like letting his magic fly. But we made a record and we did a cover of Stevie Wonder's Higher Ground that got us at first like... Who taught you how to do that if you didn't take any lessons?

I just did it, man. You learned how to slap that shit by yourself? Just did it on my own. No one said like, just do your hand. No one ever showed me. Oh, I remember seeing this kid at Fairfax High named Ray. Yeah. And when I was playing an anthem at school, we were like the white rock band. Yeah.

There was a black funk band called Star. Yeah. And there was like the two bands at school. Yeah. And Ray played in Star. And I saw Ray one time at lunchtime sitting there with a bass thumping. Yeah. And I was like, whoa, because Halala just taught me, you go like that, like you with a bass thumping. Yeah. And I was like whoa, because Halala just taught me you go like that like you're walking with your fingers. Yeah. And that was all I knew, walk. Yeah, yeah. You know. And I saw him stopping and I just saw him do it and I was like whoa, what the fuck is that?

He kind of showed me. Yeah. But I didn't, and then like a year or so later I just tried to figure it out and it kind of made my own way. Yeah, yeah. I still do it my own weird way, different than other people do it. Yeah, that's okay. Popping and thumping, man. Yeah. Popping and thumping, man. Yeah. Popping and thumping. That must have been exciting.

Yeah, it was really fun. And when I started, like, it was when we, right before we did the, when the Chill Papers got together, I just kind of found this way of doing it that was really my own way. Yeah. You know? Yeah, yeah. And it was like all those early Chill Papers songs, Black Eyed Blonde, Get Up and Jump, Skinny Sweaty Man, all these real fast, like a drum, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was like that funky thing, but with punk rock energy that like a drum you know yeah it was like that funky thing but with punk

rock energy that i loved you know yeah right and just that's when we you know we found this sound so with what's like with different drummers i mean the rhythm section is a rhythm section but you got on with okay with dh love dh yeah as a rhythm section so with with Chad, did you guys just lock in? Yeah. Or did you learn from each other? We learned from each other. At first with Chad, I was a little worried because he was a real rock dude. Like super rock, like John Bonham school.

He hit the drums harder and more steady and more ferociously with more chops than anyone I'd ever played with. Right. Like a fucking monster. No jazz though. Well, it wasn't, I don't know if a jazz thing,

and he knew like Detroit funk, he was a Detroit dude. So he could swing. He could swing and he had groove. Yeah. We just had like our arty thing. Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean?

Like I was saying before, we were really into like defunk. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the contortions. And ganga. Yeah. Gang of four. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Echo and the Bunnymen. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Susie and the Banshees. Like we like this arty kind of music. Bill Laswell, like Robert Fripp. You know what I mean? Not Crimson Fripp, but Fripp Fripp. Yeah, all of it.

And Chad had played hair metal. You know what I mean? But it was incredible. But the thing is, the ferocity with which she played was undeniable. But so it's like some sort of serendipitous miracle. It was. Because like, you know, you have these ulterior,

not ulterior, but different forces, but the alchemy of it made you the modern Shelley. Absolutely. And he bought us in a way, like in his power and his sensibility, bought us from something that probably would have been less open to the whole world. Right.

You know what I mean? Like he opened it up with that big open beats. Well, that's the drums, man. And so I talked to Billy Gibbons and, you know, because those records later, the bearded ZZ Top records, which aren't my favorite, I'm like, how'd that happen? And he said said our manager

said girls can't dance to this shit that you're doing right so figure it out yeah and that's where you get and drummers too like look at the clash without topper heddon uh-huh i love the fucking clash dude one of my favorite rock bands of all time yeah but without topper heddon when they get the other dude yeah it doesn't it's just not Yeah, look at REM. You know what I mean? Yeah Drummers are very important. It's so important, you know, and we've been lucky to have great ones I'm really lucky cuz I can irons a great drummer cliff Martinez. Nothing like him Yeah, cuz I like I listen to like when they reissued that get your yaya's out that stones record You know, it was an abco reissue and And I'd never really realized just without Bill and Charlie,

that band just falls apart. Right. Dude. All of a sudden you had these guys that are really good. You know what I mean? Solid. They go and get really good musicians who do their job well. Yeah.

Like great guys. Yeah. And they might have, but it's not like someone just being themselves. Like the thing about a lot of these guys is what they do is all they know how to do. That's good though. And that's great.

That's what you can, that's what makes the thing work. It's like you, you do your thing. Like, like, yeah. Yeah.

Like you're like, yeah. Yeah. The restraint is a, is a powerful and under appreciated thing in music. But, but straight by, by,

not by circumstance. You can't do anything else. That's right. You work with... By virtue of the fact this is all I do. You found a thing and you put all of yourself into it. The depth of your nervous system, your heart, your pain, your joy, your fucking trauma, all of it. Well, that's rock and roll, man. Yeah, dude.

Because like... It's jazz too. And punk and all of it. And Stravinsky. I guess, but then you start getting more... Because guys can do everything. You know, but then you start getting more. Because guys who can do everything, guys who are virtuosos, a lot of times they're too good. Yeah, but sometimes there are guys who are virtuosos,

who are still... Not a matter of simple or complicated. Right. But are able to still not, to still be themselves and be themselves and not fucking, they're humble enough

and believe enough in their aesthetic and the path that they're gonna make. Okay, that's a good point. Yeah. The belief in their aesthetic is a good point

because a lot of times if you have natural virtuosity, you're compelled to mimicry. Yeah. Like you can do anything. Exactly. Like you look at Duke Ellington.

Yeah. The guy changed his whole career. He could do everything you ever hear a duke ellington record didn't sound like duke ellington right you know what i mean yeah like it's just because he's himself so much and trusts himself and is close to his spirit and his heart he's not just fucking it's it's it's making sure that gets out and i think a lot of guys who are talented and even amazing don't always get it out. Yeah. They don't always, you can't. And the simple, sometimes the simplest players, it's sort of so fucking honest. Yeah.

Because they're putting everything they can into the range that they work in. Bob Marley. Yeah. Like Family Man, like those reggae stuff. A lot of those old blues dudes. It's like the guys who built the thing. Lightning Hopkins. Yeah, man.

Come on, dude. And nothing sounds like that guy. No. And you can't even play like that. No, nobody can. Captain Beefheart. Beefheart. Yeah.

Captain Beefheart and Howlin' Wolf. Yeah. Hey, Beefheart, I've been listening to a lot of Zappa, dude. I don't even know why You know I need to Because I don't Like I love Beefheart

Especially like Troutmask Replica Kind of changed my life Sure In a way Yeah But I don't know Zappa that well The only record I've ever listened to a lot Is the Hot Rats

Yeah Oh And What's the one Sugarcane Harris on violin Sugarcane Awesome Remember one time being at a party And he dropped a fucking Bindle of heroin out of his pocket the one? Sugarcane Harris on violin. Sugarcane, awesome. Remember one time being at a party

and he dropped a fucking bindle of heroin out of his pocket on the floor? Sugarcane? Picked that shit up. Could have picked it up. Picked it up. I can't remember. I can't remember.

I hope we gave it back to him. Hey, drugs, you know, drug time's different. You know, when drugs are involved. Ethos is a whole other thing. Ethos is different. Drug ethos. I just, yeah, but listening to, I don't know why, but it was just a couple weeks ago where I'm like, I'm going to go through this APA catalog when I hike.

So I've been doing it, like the first five albums. And by the time you get to apostrophe i'm like holy fuck like i almost i had to stop myself from emailing dweezil to say what kind of guitar is your dad playing on apostrophe i know he'll know and he probably has the guitar yeah what difference does it make when it yeah i i gotta get into it i'm kind of uneducated on that front well there's a lot there and it's intimidating, but it's its own thing and it's very clean and very interesting

and very, you know, like multi-layered. But I mean, I'm not like a Zappa nerd, but for some reason, sometimes I'm like, I think I'm ready. Yeah, but it's good

to be like, man, I just like so much music. Sure. So, okay. So the evolution then, so why so many ins and outs with John? Because John is an intense guy who lives in the moment of his feelings.

And when he gets to a point where he needs to evolve in a way and he knows it. Yeah. And he can't do it in the band, he goes. Oh, okay. Basically, I mean, that's the simplest way I can put it. Yeah. And I don't feel right to speak for him. But I know, you know how a lot of people will say they don't feel right to speak for him but I know you know how

a lot of people will say they don't care about being famous like they just care about art but then they keep doing everything

they can to be famous and John literally doesn't give a fuck about being famous yeah how about the rest of you yeah you know look hey

I like to make a buck as much as the next guy you know what I mean and I'm a Hollywood kid you know I mean I don't'm a Hollywood kid, you know? I mean, I don't spend my life trying to be famous. My thing on it is this, and that's a good question because I don't, for me to be honest about it,

because that's hard for me to really know. I know that whatever degree of fame I have or don't have, the thing that's crucial to me is that everything comes from an organic place. That if you make something beautiful, you make a beautiful piece of art, you do something that's good, good things will come from it. And part of that is respect from your peers and from people who care about art and stuff. Right. And it's interesting that you say you're a Hollywood kid because the difference there is that you guys became you know sort of fixtures here right and people knew you and you're in all these

different scenes and everyone's coming up so all of a sudden you know you're acting in movies people want to put you in movies to you know to do some version of yourself because you are a thing and i well and i love movies that's the thing is like like i don't act in movies to be famous right i mean i don't the thing is i'm not against famous. But you're not going out for auditions. People ask you to be in movies, right? And I love movies. Yeah. I love acting.

Yeah. Like, especially like the last 10 years, like a few things happened that made me take it very seriously. Oh, yeah? Like the craft of it. Yeah, like which things? Well, particularly I did this one underground, like, you know, but called low down yeah with john hawks yeah al fannin and and uh this woman i met who's the same age as me named named amy amy albany her father was joe albany he was a

great jazz pianist played with charlie parker mingus you know great dude um come to 70s like me same age as me she was living in hollywood her dad who was a brilliant jazz bebop pianist was strung out on dope they're living in like a crackhead hooker apartment on hollywood her dad who was a brilliant jazz bebop pianist was strung out on dope they're living in like a crackhead hooker apartment on hollywood and western one of those buildings right there in hollywood and western and you know she was this guy she admired who's of is her everything who loves you more than anything's this brilliant guy's a fucking disaster heroin addict mess you know what i mean yeah and she wrote up she wrote a memoir about it and a movie was made about it okay and so i get the script i'm like this is my fucking story i couldn't even believe it like i was shaking and crying reading it yeah and then um i uh and it was about like

what i grew up in yeah and here i am playing one of these jazz guys like john hawks played the main guy her dad i played the friend the junkie friend and I was like I I gotta honor this I can't just show up and wing it and be flea right so I went out got acting coach I started studying acting and a guy named Peter Lewis yeah he was incredible Ed Norton turned me on to him and he's a brilliant fucking man and he just started teaching me and I started really taking the craft seriously and the thing I learned more than anything like I don't know all these techniques you know smarting up an object. Stella Adler always said that, you know, whatever, all these things that are great.

You know, write a journal as a character for months and months and months before. No shit. You do that? I do that. I take it damn fucking serious now. Well, what did he teach you? What were you going to say?

But the thing that he taught me more than anything was, or that I learned, I don't know if he specifically taught me, that as a music as a musician do all my scales i do all my stuff i do my study i do my practice i do my work but there comes a time when all that matters is getting gone you know what i mean like all that matters is like when i'm at my best showing up to be the present yeah just let go hopefully you can channel the spirits live in a place beyond thought

where you're fucking channeling the great fucking gods of the galaxy. Yeah. You know what I mean? And you're just like, you've done the work where if that wave chooses to come through you, you let it come.

Get the fuck out the way. Right. And I learned that that can happen in acting. I didn't know that. Right. You know? And so I learned how to do all the work and get to a place

where you fucking let it go and let that happen. And a lot of it has to do with learning what to do is. What is the preparation? What is the work? What is the stuff? And so since then I've taken it really seriously, you know. That's great. Yeah.

So anyways. That sounds like, you know, a lot of that work. Like when you, why'd you get sober? Well, I'm not entirely sober. I'm not on the program. Oh, okay. But I am pretty much mostly sober. Yeah.

Yeah, but I mean, once in a blue moon, I'll drink like a half a beer. Yeah, yeah. Or take a hit off a joint or something. But like blue moon, I'm just not. I stopped doing drugs entirely when I turned about 30 years old. Everything. I guess you see enough people die and get strung out. If one was dying, getting strung out.

But more than that, I remember having a talk with someone once and I was talking about being a dad and my daughter was about, I don't know, four years old or something. And I would like get high when I was away from her or whatever and think, oh, I don't do it when I'm around her or whatever. And I remember, and they said like, all that matters as a parent is to be present for your kid and be communicative. Yeah. And you have to be communicating with them

when you're not around them. You have to be, it's like being in a state where you're always there for them. Like your spirit is always available whenever they need you. And that really resonated with me. And I, you know, I love my kids so much. And I was just like, that's,

I gotta be there, and I was tortured enough on my own, I spent so much of my life, riddled with panic attacks, and anxiety, and, That's from growing up in chaos. From growing up in chaos, and not knowing how to be in a relationship,

and hurting myself, hurting other people, and I just, you know, I didn't want to do it anymore, and I knew, and I started getting vague didn't want to do it anymore and i knew and i started getting like vague little hints of spirituality and stuff and i knew that like like i'd read books i got a yoga teacher you know what i mean and i got sick i got real sick i

got chronic fatigue and stuff all this stuff happened to me and i was just like kick it yeah i did huh i did and and i and i and I was like, I want to be, I want to feel everything. I need to feel the pain. I'm never going to run from it again. So what's your practice? My practice now, like right now, I'm meditating. I pray. You know, I'm not religious, but I pray every morning.

I get out of bed. I practice. I pray every time I eat food. I pray. What kind of meditating? I do TM mostly. I also learned this Vipassana. I went to these Vipassana meditation retreats

and learned that technique. And that worked for you? Yeah, it helps me. It's not always easy. As a matter of fact, sometimes it's damn right painful. In what way? That I just have to like parts of myself come up,

fear and anxiety that, you know what I mean? Like in a deep way, like I'll be sitting there and all of a sudden I'll be overwhelmed with like shaking, really yeah like just this pain it's like this icy fucking grip grabbing a hold of me like i'm gonna take you down to the bottomless pits of hell like that kind of feeling like a fear and anxiety yeah yeah yeah triggered by some little thought that i don't even know what it is

you know what i mean yeah um and so but i know that when i feel it i start to have more of an understanding and i i start to understand okay you integrate it i integrate it and i'm not gonna let it run my life like i'm gonna feel it yes i'm in fucking pain today but i'm not gonna let it make make me go make some ridiculous decision in my life that's not good. You know what I mean? Feel the pain, carry it around. Like I'm flea walking around and I'm in pain. You know what I mean?

Hey, how you doing? How can I help? You know what I mean? Well, that's the thing. You do help, right? So you set up the school too. I mean, service is a big part of your thing. Big part of my thing.

And it got really amplified during the pandemic too in a really cool way how um well just like when the pandemic hit i got i loved it right like you know no one's doing nothing my compound in malibu dude i'm like is that where you're at yeah yeah i'm like i don't have to go i don't live there anymore i actually moved because i got married and things got different. Yeah. But I was like, man, all of a sudden I didn't have to go on tour. Yeah. And at first, a real lockdown.

We stopped rehearsing. You know what I mean? Yeah. It was like, and I never have that kind of time. Yeah. And I was like, man, I'm going to go shoot hoops today. Yeah. I'm going to go get an ocean. I'm just going to practice bass for six hours.

Yeah. The fuck you think about that, world? Yeah. I'm going to go in the garage and make crazy noises going to practice bass for six hours. Yeah. The fuck you think about that world? Yeah. I'm going to go in the garage and make crazy noises because I feel like it. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like it was just so great. And then I started thinking, damn, it's all nice for me because I got the money to like

roll through this. And I started thinking about people who are really struggling because they didn't have work. They didn't have, you know, people who live day to day all of a sudden are completely fucked. And so I got an idea to bring a food truck to poor parts of LA. And just whatever, I could do something with my time and what I can help. And then I found some people in an organization in Watts that was doing groceries giveaways.

And I hooked up with them. I said, hey, I'll bring a food truck. And then I just got really involved in that community. And being a part of that and met all these awesome people and made friends and started building bridges and making friends with people who had, whose experience so much different than mine, right down the street, man. Yeah. Like, you know, people who, who, who are just like, it's crazy the things you learn when

you get into a place and listen, you know, like the way like white supremacy and systemic racism really works. Yeah. Like how it really affects people, you know, like the way like white supremacy and systemic racism really works. Yeah. Like how it really affects people. You know what I mean? And making friends on there. And I just got really involved and continue to be involved in community work there.

And that makes me really happy. That's great. Yeah, really great. So that part of, and the school, and also we're starting a music school there as well. Like I'm doing a much separate, we're starting to watch conservatory of music as well. Okay.

And yeah, it's been kind of, i don't i hate to talk about it because it's not we haven't taught one fucking lesson yet right but but you're working on it they're working on it yeah and the other school is kicking are you guys back in it yeah yeah back into full effect yeah yeah yeah yeah we know because we teach like 800 kids a week man you know is orchestra and choir and it's like i meet so many kids now we've been together 20 years i mean i come in like i run into an adult and i'd be like hey you know i went to your school for five years when i was a kid and it really changed my life oh that's you know what i mean like i met all my friends there and we all became friends and we started weird bands and we

did this and that and now you know now i'm a that just you know i make teacups whatever the fuck but but right but the birth of their creativity and yeah or community or whether or not it's a And now, you know, now I'm a, you know, I make teacups, whatever the fuck. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. But the birth of their creativity and community. Or whether or not it was just a cool thing for they to do. Sure, man. For some people, they might go be a musician for their lives. Right. That's what I mean.

Yeah. But it could be anything. It's been really nice. And you've been a great, great help for that, being a part of the fundraisers and stuff. Oh, thank you. Thank you. It's always like, it's always fraught with me. I'm always nervous.

And I always get angry and weird. It's hard to wrangle a dinner crew of rich people. It's fucked. I get it. You know, all you gotta do is go up there and get an amp and go jump around and dive under your face. It's like I always have big plans when I host it, but I get up there and I'm like, what the...

Listen to me! I know. I'm yelling at Mo Aston, who's a hundred. I love Mo. So anyways. What about Navarro? You guys still friends or what? Yeah, I'd never see him.

Sure, but did you like that version? I think it had really good moments. There were times when it was great. And when it worked, it worked. And when it didn't work, it really didn't work. really didn't work you know what i mean like just like chemistry wise and sure um and drugs came into the picture in a way that were just like untenable you guys have like just sort of hammered through it you know like it's amazing that the the that you and anthony are alive yeah you know what i mean it's like jesus it's time, dude. And the crazy thing is, at least for me,

Anthony, I'm sure, has a different take on it than me. I never think about, like, well, we're going to keep going no matter what. Or I never have thoughts about, well, next year we're going to be doing this. It's just kind of like it always makes sense to keep doing it. Well, I mean, look, man, everyone seems to. If you can, they do.

Like, you guys really make big new records so you got to get like take that shit out there i think it's you know it might be that thing of us being well for the most part completely sober i'm probably the only one and i am basically sober yeah i get like in my home life like like put this my wife has never tasted alcohol in her whole life sure you know what i mean like that's how we are in my house yeah you know what i mean yeah um but but we we we feel everything and and by feeling everything we always show up and we're like let's get to work and we never rest on our laurels it's never this thing of like like oh well i'm gonna be in the caribbean you know eating papayas and sitting on a beach. It's like, no, we're going to be in a room every day arguing about whether the bridge

should be eight bars or 12 bars and whether this or that, and still jamming and jamming to a final groove where we're fucking drooling and lost in love with each other. Right. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And also, you know, in a way, and I'm just kind of thinking of this now, like John leaving us and coming back and us having to continue to focus and reinvent. And every time it kind of, we have to work to birth this thing again.

It might save us because we have to be forced to keep working. Do you find, do things evolve or change? I mean, like, you know, like when John comes back, is it sort of like, hmm, he's in a different place now? He's in a different place. He's been through a whole journey making these records by himself. He's like, deeply into like,

the sonics of his electronic music and the records. I've listened to some of it, yeah. Trippy shit. He's deep into it. Like, deep.

You know what I mean? Like, he doesn't do shallow. Yeah, yeah. Frusciante don't do shallow. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. And, and, and we've been growing and changing and doing our thing, like living. You know what I mean? Sure.

And so we get back together and it's like, here's our guy. Like, we don't get to do this forever. Yeah. You know what I mean? Let's make the most beautiful thing we can. Let's show up for each other every day. And this is big records, two records, right? Yeah.

And that's a little bit of it. Huh? This is a small piece of it. There's more? We recorded a lot. How many songs bit of it. Huh? This is a small piece of it. There's more? We recorded a lot. How many songs? A lot. Yeah?

Yeah. Yeah. So what's the plan? I can't really talk about it. Oh, you got one, though? Kind of. Okay. A little loosely.

We do and we don't. But we recorded a lot of music, and we thought that these songs would go together and make a really good double album. Okay. Okay, okay. And are you guys looking to tour? We're absolutely looking to tour. The record comes out on, I think, April 1st. Right.

We're going to do some shows around that. And then come June, we're starting a full-on world tour. Wow. Yeah. All right, man. Well, you seem ready. Yeah, I'm ready, man. I'm ready.

It's good to talk to you. We have work to do and stuff. man I'm ready it's good to talk to you we have work to do and stuff yeah thanks Mark great to talk to you always that was me and Flea the new album Unlimited Love

comes out this Friday April 1st you can get it wherever you get music and I enjoy talking to that guy and I'll see you in Georgia this weekend and I'll talk to you Thursday before I go.

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