WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1320 - Zazie Beetz

Episode Date: April 7, 2022

Zazie Beetz and Marc were in three things together - Joker, the Netflix series Easy, and the new animated film The Bad Guys - but they're only now meeting each other for real. That makes for a good opportunity to interrogate their respective anxiety issues and compare their coping strategies. Zazie and Marc also talk about her German heritage, why she's not an LA person, and how she sees her work on Atlanta as being part of an overall reflection of Donald Glover's real life story.  Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fuck

nicks yeah what the fuck stirs what's happening i'm Knicks? Yeah? What the fuck, Sturs? What's happening? I'm Mark Maron. This is my podcast. How are you? Have I neglected you? Have I not checked in recently? Is everything okay? Are you holding up all right? How's your hand? How's your knee? How's that thing on your head? Did you get that thing on your leg removed how did what did it turn out to be is it did you add too much salt well how can you fix that i i don't know these are big problems how's the cake what's how is your cake how's your dog cat fish lizard snake how's the cake how's the cake okay listen to me i'm going to pronounce this correctly a few times i believe today i'm talking to zassi beats okay zassi beats she plays van on atlanta have you watched the new atlanta i talked to her about it but i was sort of like again old guying it i'm doing i'm i'm doing some serious old guying lately both in my

mind in my heart in my body and how i see myself in the world old guying yeah uh it's problematic maybe i can pull out of it because i'd like to go the other way but listen zazie beats she plays van on atlanta and i've been in three things with her but i've never met her before before recently for the bad guys press we did easy she's in three episodes i as well am in three episodes we're in joker together and we did the bad guys and this first time i i met i've met her not right here but i mean for the bad guy. It's just interesting. Zazie Beetz. I think she's got one of those names that she doesn't bother to correct people on anymore when they fuck it up. But I listened to her say it, and I think I said it correctly.

Or maybe I just said it incorrectly like nine times. But let me talk about this fella I know, a fairly essential character in the podcast history, Jeff Ulrich. If you listen to any podcast regularly, you probably don't realize that Jeff Ulrich is somewhat responsible. You might know that name if you're a longtime Earwolf listener or if you just know the history of podcasting because Jeff started the Earwolf Network. And that company became a model for the whole podcast industry, the way podcasts make money and get distributed and all that. That's all because of Jeff, in a way. Now Jeff's starting a new company, and when he told us about it, we thought, well, basically, we thought it would be a good thing to let you know about it as well. It's called Dove Orchids, and it's a company that is 100% owned and operated by autistic people with the mission to improve autistic representation everywhere.

Jeff is autistic, and he wanted to start a company with autistic people that will work with other companies on how to better engage their autistic employees and customers. Every company can benefit from the diverse thinking and skills autistic people bring to the table. And if you're a parent or a caretaker of an autistic person, they want to hear from you too. Jeff wrote a Medium post about being autistic and starting a new business that you can find at doveorchids.com. Go check it out if you're part of a business that wants to reduce stigma and increase opportunities for autistic people,

or just check it out if you're interested in learning more about neurodiversity and autistic acceptance. That's doveorchids.com. So the old guying continues. I can't tell if I am actually out of the loop, if there is a loop, if I am the loop, am I the loop? I am my loop, I think. I do feel like I have my fingers on the pulse of something, but not most things. I seem to miss just about everything until somebody says, you should watch that. But I don't know if that's unlike anybody else. Is there a single pulse to have your finger on other than the demise of Western civilization,

the planet Earth, and the human species. I feel like I'm innately and emphatically on the pulse of that. But that's because I can see my own light at the end of the tunnel. I don't know if it's relative to that, just that because I'm old and I know it's coming and I have to reckon with that on a daily basis. I guess not everyone does. I'm not sick, that on a daily basis. I guess not everyone does. I'm not sick, but I think about it. I think about these things, but I don't know. I don't know if I don't understand things. I don't know what crypto is.

And the other thing, the, what are they called? NFTs, I kind of get it. Do I need to know? That's the other thing. I'm old. Do I need to know? How do you not know this? I don't know. Maybe I only have so much space right now. Maybe I don to know? That's the other thing. I'm old. Do I need to know? How do you not know this? I don't know.

Maybe I only have so much space right now. Maybe I don't want to load up the drive with more crap. I have to fucking, I really do. I've really got to upload some of this shit or just get rid of it. Just delete. Put it in the trash. But because of that, I feel a little out of the loop. I don't know. I was talking to don't know i was talking to my mother

i was talking to my father i talked to them both within an hour of each other my dad is is hanging in he seems to uh continue to know basically what's up he knows i find it necessary now to go hey dad it's mark mark it's mark your son hi dad it's Mark. Mark, it's Mark, your son. Hi, dad. It's Mark. He did make reference to, you know, I've talked to him about things. And it's kind of fun to talk to him about things now in the state that he's in, where some things are just, you know, talking about a hard drive that's slowly deleting itself. But, you know, he knows I'm kind of half looking for a place. Maybe I get a place out in New Mexico. And he's like, what for?

Just save your money. I'm like, for what? He's like, you know, you just know you have it. Just save it. You know? And I'm like, then what happens to it? He's like, give it to your family, to your grandkids. I'm like, wrong son.

Wrong son, sir. But then I talk to my mom, and she's holding up, but I don't know. You know, you talk to your folks. I'm fortunate that they're both alive so I can be part of this process, the undoing. But, you know, I just don't know. I don't like, I do not know why I work so fucking hard. I do know. I do not know why I just drive myself into exhaustion. You would think that, you know, with my life that it doesn't seem that complicated. I'm fucking busy as fuck. And at the end of the day, I don't know why I realize I sit down at the end of the day, not unlike many people.

And I'm like, what? What was that? How long ago was this morning? Jesus Christ. That was fucking crazy. And people are like, yeah, it's good to be busy. Is it good to be busy? I've got to shift away.

I've got to meditate. I've got to slow it down. I've got to ease up on the coffee. Do you think drinking a quart of coffee is too much? Because I'm drinking over a quart of coffee a day, usually before noon. And then I feel queasy and dehydrated and my skin itches. You think that's the coffee? You think I should just give that up?

Where's the joy then? Where's the joy without the coffee? And I've been around this fucking cycle so many times in my goddamn life. The insecurity stuff is starting to bother me. The vulnerability and insecurity of aging. Again, not that old, 58, but you start to feel it. I start to feel it. start to feel it i kind of i'm dreaming heavily too a lot of dreams to the point where it's sort of like when you wake up and you're like

oh wow that's disappointing but the the the sort of strange insecurity that's happening i mean i've been doing the material i've been doing now since we could start doing material a lot of it's relative to uh coming out of the grief and coming out of the pandemic. And, you know, there's like an hour and a half of stuff. I got to tighten it up. I'm being hard on myself. I'm playing guitar. I played it last night.

I don't know how it went. I'm on my own. Jimmy Vivino is not with me. I'm doing a trio. But there's part of me that thinks like, OK, I'm having a good time. OK, I'm happy that, you know, I'm bucket listing this thing. But there's part of me that's like, well, who, who really wants to hear this? Do we need another old guy playing guitar with

his friends? Do we in public can't, isn't that something I can keep to myself? And would I do it if I was only going to keep it to myself? Probably not. I don't know. I know that all that's happening in me is not bad. That if this sense of insecurity or lack of confidence is just some sort of unavoidable vulnerability, I can probably work from there. And I probably should. That's the pressing thing I think that's happening. Is that, look, a lot of you know me and I do have a, I have a way I act in public. I do think I have a way I act here.

It's not without depth. It's not without showing this. But something else is happening. There's some part of my weird-ass vulnerability that's kind of old in the sense that it's been down there a while. I think might want to come out and play. And I don't really know what that looks like, but I feel it. There's like, you know, how many marks are there inside of me? Let's find out.

Let's count them. Let's count the marks inside me. I'll let you know how that goes. Zazie Beetz is here. Well, she was here. Season three of Atlanta is on Thursday nights on FX and streaming on Hulu. The Bad Guys comes out in theaters April 22nd. I've been watching Atlanta and I got to be honest with you, when you watch it or when I watch it, now this is where all the old Manning's uh conversation started was like i'm like am i missing something is this just too is it trying too hard is it too arty but like it is sort of conceptual and poetic filmmaking but i gotta be honest with you that third episode the one that

was just on last week it's fucking with me it's making me think about a lot of things um from a black perspective in a way that was sort of a roundabout way it was non-verbalized it was explored poetically and and Zazie was great on that episode uh as they all are but it's really starting to twist my brain a bit. It like, it keeps coming back in my brain. That's the thing about that show. And it's not because of a joke. It's not because of a line.

It's because you're like, what the fuck is up with that? And that's not bad. If I could make a show that had more of that, what the fuck is up with that? I'd be happy. Anyways, this is me talking to Zazie

Beetz. And Epic Saga, based on the global best-selling novel by James Clavel. To show your true heart is to risk your life. When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive. FX's Shogun, a new original series streaming February 27th exclusively on Disney+. 18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. It's a night for the whole family. Be a part of Kids Night when the Toronto Rock take on the Colorado Mammoth at a special 5pm start time on Saturday, March 9th at

First Ontario Centre in Hamilton. The first 5,000 fans in attendance will get a Dan Dawson bobblehead courtesy of Backley Construction. Punch your ticket to Kids Night on Saturday, March 9th at 5pm in Rock City at torontorock.com.

Hi. Hi. Nice to see you. You too. Nice to see you again. So I know, I can't believe we've been in three things and we never met before, but that's the way show business works. Yeah.

It is odd. I've also done things with friends of mine who I never see ever on set. Yeah. But we're all, you know, we do press together. Yeah. And that's when you see each other. Yeah. So like, what's the deal?

Like, you don't live here. You live in New York. No. Yeah. I live in New York. Do you hate coming here? Hate is a strong word. Do I enjoy spending extended live in New York. No, yeah, I live in New York. Do you hate coming here? Hate is a strong word. Do I enjoy spending extended time here?

No. No? A week is good. A week in January is great. Yeah. More than that, I'm done. Really? What is it?

Is it just all show business? Don't you have friends here? I do have friends here. I'd say that's the highlight. I do have friends here. I would say that's the highlight. But I have to say, I find the sunshine a bit aggro. It's a lot.

And I've realized I just connect to walking cities. So even this trip, I decided because Ubers take so long to get to you. I was like, if it's under a mile and a half, I'll just walk there. Yeah. But then half the time, I'm like walking on the side of a highway.

Yeah. Like this is terrible. Everybody who tries that when they come to LA, they're sort of like, it's not that far. I'll walk. But they're just, you feel weird.

You feel just alone. Yeah. And kind of like, is this legal? Yeah like yeah should i be here why isn't there anyone else walking there's nothing to look at there's weird shit in the gutters yeah yeah and so um that is a deterrent for me and then otherwise do you drive well i got my license three years ago because i kept coming to LA. And I was like, I'm tired of being carsick sitting in the back.

I always get carsick. Me too. And so I would associate my like weeks here of just being nauseous the entire time. Yeah, yeah. I will say food is great here.

Yeah. Food is really good. Don't you get nauseous in cabs? I can't fucking stand cabs. I don't really. I mean, I take cabs. You just take the train. But I take the train

a lot of the time too. Every once in a while I've gotten into cabs in New York and it's the worst. Yeah, yeah mean, I take cabs. You just take the train. But I take the train a lot of the time, too. Every once in a while, I've gotten into cabs in New York, and it's the worst. Yeah, yeah. It's start and stop. Yeah, I get nauseous, which is why sometimes I'll prefer the train. But I feel like that's very negative. LA has its upsides. Are we going to try and spin it positive?

Yeah. You know, it's 2022. Let's, like, switch it up. LA has some great beaches. Sure. Oh, yeah. Have you gone to the beach since you've been here? Not this time, but I have been there.

Are you a beach person? I like the beach. I like the sea. I think the ocean water does a lot of healing spiritually, physically. Can you be on a boat? Can you be on a boat? Can you be on a ship? You know, I haven't spent much time on boats. I can't stand it.

I get nauseous. You get nauseous in a car, man. You're going to get nauseous on a boat. It's the worst. I'll swim in the sea. Yeah, that's nice. Just go in a little bit. Yeah.

Take it in. So I watched Atlanta. I watch you. Okay. Okay. I watched Atlanta. I watch it. Okay. Okay. I'm glad. I hope you don't hate watch it. No, I don't hate watch it.

Good. I'm just a guy trying to understand things. Yeah, of course. Aren't we all? Do you understand it? I do, and sometimes I don't. Is that true? Like, I watched the first one.

I think so, yeah. And you're not in that one. No. That was sort of a mini horror movie-ish. Watch the second one. I did watch it. Oh, okay, okay. The Amsterdam one? Yeah. Yeah, I watched that one one. Yeah. And you're not in that one. No. That was sort of a mini horror movie. Watch the second one. I did watch it. Oh, okay. The Amsterdam one?

Yeah. Yeah. I watched that one. Oh, good. You kind of come into a situation. Yeah. And you're kind of there and everyone's kind of there and you're like, why are they all there?

It's not real clear. Yeah. You know, I know that he's there to perform and Donald's there to manage and then you're just there. But because of the way it's shot, I'm looking for deeper meaning. I think there's deeper meaning. Of course, there has to be. What the hell was that guy?

Tupac? Yeah. Well, I think that that's reflections on death and transition and letting go and moving forward, in my opinion. And in terms of V Van's arc's opinion. So my reason will continue to reveal itself. And other than that, I think we're all just existing in the same way we do every day. What is the process of shooting that? You get full scripts that are like to the, I mean,

I have to assume that all that stuff is pretty on the paper the paper yes there's no riffing when it comes to that not when it comes to um killing tupac but there's definitely like riffing but amsterdam in general i mean somebody had to sit down and decide that started it's not like we left the second season and everyone was heading to amsterdam No, it was that. It was? The last episode is all of them going on a plane

to tour in Europe. Oh. But then there's like... It's a problem when you gotta wait three years for however... Four.

Four. But it doesn't pick up directly off of that experience. There's like an assumption that time has passed yeah and paper boy or alfred yeah has become more famous right and in the same way donald has yeah and sort of the whole show really is in my opinion donald's life and his experience emotionally and psychologically and also literally. So I think a lot of the very absurd happenings in the show are real events.

That happened to him. Yeah. I always forget that he's a big musical act. Yeah. But he is. He is, yeah. He's a gifted gentleman, that guy. He is a gentleman and he is gifted.

But I definitely know a lot of the like Europe tour stuff comes from his own sort of experience. And when you start like working with that guy, I mean, how did that start? Did you know him before? Not at all. It was just a standard audition. Really? I had been, when I booked the pilot foranta yeah i had been signed with my agent for like eight months and it was my it was my fourth project yeah so you know the first project i

kind of like was an indie i basically i lost lost money on that yeah um and the second one i was a day player on this movie. The third one, I actually, it was a movie. It was going for like three weeks. I had to quit my job, my day job. Which movie? It's called Wolves. How'd that go?

I think it went well. I played like high school girlfriend. Okay. But I assumed I would just go back to work after. But while I was shooting Wolves, I booked the pilot for Atlanta. And that bought me a little more time. And then the pilot got picked up. And that bought me the rest of my life.

So, yeah, very quick, like, snowball. Do you think that was the changer that broke you? Oh, absolutely. That completely changed my life. they got joker after that i got deadpool first deadpool and easy and joke i mean everything else so did you like doing easy i did it's weird right how did you how did joe just come find you yeah yeah joe have you talked to him lately um not lately i wonder what's up with that guy do you like talk to him regularly no i don't he's an odd guy making stuff in chicago yeah that's what he does he makes stuff in chicago that was that's what was nice about easy honestly it was

it really did feel like friends just making stuff almost Almost like a college. Yeah. Like, we're going to do our thesis movie for theater class. And real improv shit. Yeah. That was the best part of that thing. That was the best part. He knows how to cut that stuff.

That's not easy. Do you feel comfortable doing improv? Oh, yeah. I don't mind. It's great. But you always say, I always wonder, he's got to put that together in his head. Yeah. And you're kind of evolving the story as it goes yeah and you can just you just got to trust he knows what he's doing yeah and it doesn't feel like it no no but that's what

makes it all in some ways also very approachable and made it fun because i think if he was too like oh oh tour blah blah It would have felt more intimidating. Yeah. Do I know what I'm doing? I'm trying to remember yours. You were with that guy, right? Dave Franco and Aya Cash.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, yes. So I mean, our storyline.

Did you do any more just the one? I did all three. Yeah, me too. Um, we must be like, there's only a few of us that did every season. Well, yeah, I guess we're suckers.'s only a few of us that did every season well yeah

i guess we're suckers no it's cool right i like going to chicago yeah i love chicago i know i never like in recent years i've been like this is a real city it's a real place with real things only recently well i mean i would go there you know and do comedy but like to spend a week or two there you like there's some cities where you like you can't get a sense of the identity of the place and it doesn't feel, it's not a cohesive experience to me. But over time, you start to realize there's real Chicago stuff.

Yeah. And there's real Chicago people and there's a personality dug deep. Yeah. And it's charming and gritty and weird. Yeah. I really like Chicago.

Like Chicago smokes and eats things it shouldn't they have great food there a lot um i like that it feels like this like northern city and i don't think it's trying to be anything else nope um like some places i'm like you're trying to be new york or you're trying to you know whatever and i feel like chicago is very proudly chicago where'd you come from? New York. Really?

Yeah. That's my bias as well. Yeah. You grew up there the whole time? Yeah. I was born in Berlin because I'm half German. So I was, I was. Who's German?

My dad. Do you, is he still around? Yes. Where's he live? He lives in Jersey now. In Jersey. He's a German in Jersey? A German in Jersey. Yes. But like, do you have family in Jersey now. In Jersey. He's a German in Jersey? A German in Jersey, yes.

But like, do you have family in Germany? Yeah, I do. His whole family. And you go there? Yeah. Now, so you speak German. Yeah. What part of Germany?

He's from Berlin. East Germany, actually. Yeah. I grew up. So his parents are in Berlin. Yeah. I have a cousin in Berlin. And then the rest of the family is sprinkled throughout the country.

Do you have brothers and sisters? I have a half brother, Justin. He's 15. Who's half? My mom. Oh, and that was after you? Yes. Oh, he's okay.

He's younger than you. Yeah. So he, my parents divorced when I was five and then my mom got remarried. Good guy. Um, yes. Very good guy. That's nice. All worked out. It did work out. My parents divorced when I was five and then my mom got remarried. Good guy? Yes, very good guy. That's nice. All worked out.

It did work out. And I'm so glad I have a sibling now. I was very resentful about the fact that I didn't. Oh, really? Yeah. But like Germany, I have no sense of Germany. Have you ever been? No.

Ooh. I know. You should go. I know. Berlin is really great. Is it? Still? Still? It's very, you know, every international city, I think, is changing and becoming corporate.

Sure. Or like big city. I feel like that's happening to London and Paris and New York and LA. Oh, I went to London. It was like so many cranes building so many buildings. Yeah, like just condos. I don't know what they are. Nothing very interesting.

New York, too, though. Yeah, yeah. I mean, who the fuck is living in all those buildings? I think nobody. Isn't that weird, though? Yeah. I mean, I've lived in New York for years, and I go back there, and I see all these buildings, and no one can afford to live there.

So what is it? They're just big monuments to invested money? I think, yeah, I don't know how they're making money off of it. Yeah, I don't get it. I think it's a lot of foreign investors. Oligarchs. Yeah. Hiding their money

in large, empty buildings in New York. We have to deal with. Yeah. But you have a relationship with Germany? I do, absolutely. So I used to go... Yeah, so I was born there

and then I went to preschool there. So I lived there when I was... You speak German, obviously. I speak German. That's a rough language. Yeah, it yeah it's actually well the grammar is rough well the sound of it's rough the sound of it it's actually quite similar to english maybe not the sound isn't a lot of hooks and yeah there are yeah yeah but like hand hunt hand Right, okay, so that's two things. Jacket, jacket. Okay.

I don't know. I feel like they're cognates, but then the grammar just sort of like destroys any sort of semblance of relationship between German and English. The grammar is quite complicated. Yeah. But you got it second nature, right?

It did, yeah, luckily. So you go back and you have grandparents there? I do, yes. It's crazy. It's not really, but to me it is. I guess. I'm just weird about Germany, I think. I mean, maybe as you should be.

But I would go back, yeah, every summer, you know, essentially instead of like summer camp, my parents would just send me to Germany and so I'd spend my like two months with them. Yeah. So I had a lot of alone time with them. And besides my dad, nobody in my family speaks English. Oh, in Germany. Yeah. So it's full German.

And I have a very close relationship with them. And I love them very much. You've got to do a German movie. I do. I'm trying. You ever watch Fassbender movies? Yeah. Oh, my God.

Yeah. Too bad he's not around. You could do a weird, fucked up... I mean, there's a few filmmakers I would love to do stuff with, but... I think that would be amazing at this point in your career as you're getting known in America to just do a full-on fucking German movie. I think, I would love to. How is that not happening?

Who do we got to call? Have you looked at scripts in German? Not full German. I get a lot of, or not a lot, but I get some like, she's, she's maybe,

or they work in sometimes my like, German-ness. Right. Or they find it intriguing and yeah and then and then it like

conveniently works with the story but I haven't done like a full just full German everything I would love to yeah it'd be great but I don't I guess I don't really know

German casting people or German directors even I mean not personally yeah I haven't watched I don't know if I've seen I've seen a few few uh contemporary german movies you've seen tony erdman yeah i did i think it's so good is that about the woman and the father yeah yeah oh my god it's a crazy movie i would love to work with mahan ad as that director it's like a two and a half hour long

movie and it's three hours yeah it's bizarre. Yeah, it's great. I remember watching that. Was it Film Forum for a long time? Yeah, probably. Yeah. Yeah. That and then also, I don't know what it's called in, I think it's The White Ribbon in English. If I'm not mistaken, that's Hanukkah. Yeah.

If I'm not mistaken. That one's really good. I don't know if I saw that. That one's like turn of the century, black and white. It was made, it's a modern film. Yeah. It takes place turn of the century. It's this black and white story about this like village and all these terrible things

are happening in the village and everybody's trying to figure out who's doing it. And it's sort of kind of a lot from the point of view of the children and then this like teach. It's very interesting. Yeah. The white ribbon, I think, is the English one. And it's a German director? Yeah.

Yeah, you got to get into one. I am. I'm just curious about it. I just want to see you speak German at length. I don't know. And be like, wow, it's real. Yeah, people don't usually believe it until they... Well, you don't have any accent of any kind.

No. Huh. And that's just normal. I don't have any accent of any kind. No. Huh. And that's just normal. I don't have an accent, but I flub grammar sometimes. I barely know how to talk. Do you know any other languages? No, I can't do it. What did you learn in school?

Spanish. I can barely get through English. My grammar's terrible and I don't- I was an English major. I studied Spanish. Really? Yeah. I studied Spanish. Really? Yeah. I studied Spanish in high school and I just couldn't deal.

Where'd you go to college? Boston University. Okay. Where'd you go to college? Skidmore College. I know that college. Yeah, we're close. Yeah.

Boston. That's a fancy school, isn't it? Yeah. Is it an Ivy League school? Like close? They want to be an Ivy, I guess. They're not, but it's like mini ivy i think they call themselves so you why'd your dad move here like what was it what got him out of germany well

um so my dad grew up in east germany and when the wall came down in 89 he was just like yeah let's go to america well they might put it back up in a couple years it's not clear how this is all going to pan out. But yeah, honestly, I think a lot of old communists are like, yeah, but my dad, yeah, so he came to the US and quite quickly within a couple of months, he met my mom. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, so he moved here when he met her? Like they didn't meet in Germany? No. Well, he didn't move here.

He came here on like a summer program. Met my mom on that summer program. Like a college thing? No, he was 25-ish when that happened. What's he do? He's a cabinet maker. Really? Yeah.

I need some work, but he's not here. He's not here. He's in New York. He's in Jersey. But he's great. He does most of my furniture. Really? Yeah, he's great. He does most of my furniture. Really? Yeah, he's great. Can he make tables?

Oh, my table is from his hands. And is it high-end stuff? Yeah. Oh, that's nice. Yeah. So you notice how to do the polishing and all that stuff. Yeah, he does it all. I have a bed from him, table.

That's a real artisanal craft. Yeah, it feels very heady, but he's a man of his hands. Yeah, and he, and he uses saws and sands things. Yeah. That's great.

Yeah, he did a, made a Barbie bunk bed with me when I was like six. Oh. That was nice. So he's here on a, on a, on some sort of

cabinet making program. Actually, this was before he was really in full cabinet full cabinet making so he was the superintendent this is going to get too complicated but yeah he met my mom they were my mom was young 21 at the time 22 22 when they met and then they they very quickly uh decided to have a child got pregnant went to germany to get married there. My mom had me. Now, was this a jarring thing for your mother?

I think exciting. I think they kind of both were like, Where'd she come from? My mom grew up in New York. Okay. Yeah. So originally Brooklyn, and then she moved to Manhattan when she was 10. All the family's okay with everything? Well, questionable. But they've come around in the years,

as far as I can tell. But yeah, I think she was young, and I think just excited by life, excited by love, and I decided to have a baby. Run off to Germany and get married. Run off to Germany, yeah. And then they had me there. And then when I was about a year,

they came back to New York. And they were married and you were a family. And we were family. Living in the city. Yep. Now, okay, so what is the progress of being you? Did it feel weird to have a German dad, a white German dad?

It's interesting because to me yeah he's he's my dad yeah of course so i would say in the complete nuclear sense and just within the confines of my family no it didn't feel weird at all i actually i feel very american and i feel very german my dad is very german when, 90% of it is in German. Really? So, no. And then my grandparents also. So his parents I have a very close relationship with. But then I think in the context of the outer world, I guess.

What about your mom's people? Yeah. And my mom. So my mom's black. Yeah. And my mom, so my mom's black. Yeah. And yeah, so with my mom, they took, you know, everybody accepted each other very wonderfully. Oh, that's good. That's nice. And there was no conflict around that, which is great.

And to this day, you know, they have been now divorced for 25 years. Yeah. But they love him. Yeah. And respect him. And he's a great father. Yeah. So they, everyone's still in touch and it's okay?

Not actively in touch, but there's like respect. Sure, sure. And he came to some Christmases and things like that. But that also tapered off as I got older. Sure. But yeah. In terms of the outside world? In terms of the outside world, sure. I think that there's definitely I mean, honestly, I still think it's kind of like a revolutionary thing to be in an interracial relationship. And it is it seems like it doesn't it's still a huge thing. Yeah. And, you know, to, I guess, be the product of that certainly comes with questions questions and like what is this like what is that like so i think there was always curiosity around it but like my mom is my mom and yeah my dad is

is my papa why is it a huge thing i mean it's it's an at this point in time it shouldn't really be that huge thing it seems fairly common but it still is sort of like wow yeah i think it's still just sort of um it's common but i still don't think it's the majority and i think that there's just a lot of um you know we're used to our culture whatever it is we grew up with whether you're white black or asian or whatever german yeah um And I think there's just sometimes discomfort around folding in a different culture and people I think are just still a little bit uneasy about it. But I think that's changing.

Certainly in this country. It's changing for both ways. Yeah. Like as it aggressively becomes more common and progressive and accepted, there's this whole other side that's you know pushing back yeah more now than ever yeah it's fucking horrendous it's yeah it's quite a disaster what's it what's going what's going on in germany um lord i don't know i think all of europe is going through stuff i think the united states is going through stuff. I think the United States is going through stuff.

I think collectively as a globe, we're all sort of experiencing something. Maybe 2012 was the end of the world and we didn't realize it. My mom always said it was not the end of the world, but a shift in energy. Oh, there you go. Isn't there a nice way to look at it? Have you heard of this thing where they're trying to find the God particle? Do you know what I'm talking about? I like it.

Explain it to me as best you're understanding it. The scientific element is really going to fall short here. That's okay. The God particle. Yeah. So they're trying to find sort of the like, I think the element that is below sort of like the string theory, like what is truly the basis of all things. And so they started this atomic thing and they're throwing neutrons,

electrons, I don't know what they're throwing around, protons. And. But they're chasing the God particle. But they're chasing the God particle. It's this like huge underground contraption. And when they turned it on,

scientists had like four different ways this could go. Either everything just basically blows up, which it didn't. And another one, gosh, was nothing happens. And then another one was like a parallel universe begins. Yeah. And. How did we move there? And well, I think we're in like the bad one i know that's like the

idea is like there was like a good one and a bad or you know not good and bad is it exactly the same only good like are we living in both or do we not know i mean i guess we're living in both i suppose if it's parallel i'm really doing a terrible job but it's quite interesting yeah in terms of like huh maybe there was a shift. And if you think about it, like when did things start feeling a little weird? I know exactly when they started feeling weird. When Trump was elected president. I mean, things were bad.

Yeah, I guess. Yeah. And then it got really weird. Totally weird. Like, what the fuck is happening? There's no, I know exactly the day. That was not a good day. Oh, and then like the-

I passed out the day after that. You passed out? I think out of anxiety. Really? Yeah. You mean just out of nowhere? Like fainted, yes. Where?

At home? I was at somebody else's home. I was doing a table read for something and I just, I was talking to somebody and I was like, I need to go to the bathroom. Where I was like, I was like, this isn't, something is off. And I was walking and thank goodness my fiance was there. And I walked by him and I was like, I'm not gonna. And I just said, yeah.

Wow. Yeah. I think it was anxiety. Do you, are you, have you always had that? I haven't always had that, but since then I have. Really? Yeah. That was the beginning of it?

Well, I get very- So that was- This was 2016, so I was 25. Huh. I think I've realized, so, well- What? I have a very complicated relationship to anxiety, as everybody does. I'm full of dread all the time. I'm managing relationship to anxiety. Really? As everybody does.

I'm full of dread all the time. I'm managing dread right now. Really? Yeah, it manifests very specifically for me. In what way? Well, like... Indigestion. No, no.

Like, I've always had it. Yeah. But it took me a long time to realize that I get overwhelmed with it. Yeah. And then it almost feels like a depression. But it's really not. Yeah. It's a paralysis.

Yes, that's how I feel. Huh. I had it, I think, well, not I think, since puberty. But I didn't have words for it until really my mid-20s when it completely overwhelmed me. And I essentially became immobile. And I had this sort of like crisis control because I was like, this is just, and this sort of around that time was when it really all was coming to a head. At 25?

Yeah. But you've been dealing with it your whole life. You just didn't have a word for it. Yeah. Or what you identified. And I would say 25 is when it was at its ugliest. And when I, it really started to change my life, honestly. Like what happened?

What were the symptoms? I was, so I would feel like I had to pass out. So I'd just lie down for like hours a day because I was like, I can't stand. I stopped eating. Really? Did you think you were depressed? I didn't think I was depressed

because it wasn't depression. I get anxiety. I don't get depression. I was, it was like, it's as if, if you've experienced a panic attack, it was as if a panic attack was happening 24 seven. So I just had no relief. And so I couldn't eat. I was like losing weight.

I was seeing blurry. I couldn't read. I couldn't, um, I, I was like just indigestion and, and I couldn't and I couldn't be alone. I remember my partner at the time, he had to travel a little bit for work and I had to like stay at my mom's house because I was like, I cannot. I was just not functioning. And so then I sort of did a huge kind of overhaul and a bunch of stuff and really became introspective. And I was like, at the time time i like stopped drinking no sugar meditating 20 minutes every morning every night trying to work out every day and that's when you're like oh

brains are also different like you can implement all those things and need help so yes but i think since then i have so much more vocabulary around it's much more understanding and so my management of it is just way better but since then when i am stressed out like last year i had some stuff with my tooth um what like what i just had a tooth pulled out fully yeah how was that it's i'm sitting here playing with the hole oh no are you gonna get like a fake one in there i guess so i got to i haven't i've never had my wisdom teeth pulled out and dentists keep telling me i should but i'm terrified of the process it's it's a mess man yeah but i mean you know you get put out and then you know you wake up that's actually the part that scares me

it scares me too the idea of like all right three two one and you're out that sort of yeah kind of gives me a lot of dread are you kidding man i went? I went to the dentist on Friday knowing I had to have that done. Yeah. And I'm like, I guess like I'm ready to die. But then was it nice, I guess, ultimately? Well, look, you know, my fear is that something is going to go wrong. What happened? Because it was a root canal and I didn't feel anything, but that tooth was rotting.

So it was already a crown and a dead tooth. Yeah. And the dead tooth at the base of the crown started to rot. rot so it could get infected so i had to get it off and i just went there this morning but i'm i was afraid you had it done this morning no oh okay that went to the dentist to have him do follow-up it was i did it friday but anyways my anxiety around that was what if something fucks up with the anesthetic and I die oh yeah that was where I went but I've been sober like 22 23 years so it was nice it was a freebie you know I had to wake up and be like hey man I feel real good but how do you because I still deal with this and it took

me a long time to realize that it was anxiety and I still jack myself up on coffee to the point where I'm exhausted and I still get overwhelmed and on coffee to the point where I'm exhausted. And I still get overwhelmed and have to take naps. Yeah, I take naps all the time. Yeah, but I function. But I do, there is a fight. Do you feel like you function? Do you feel like you're thriving?

Sure. Yeah. But I have to make choices. Yeah, I agree. Like through repetition, like doing exercise, like hiking up the mountain twice a week. Because I'll wake up and i've somehow trained myself because there's a good part of my brain that's like oh fuck i don't want to god damn it i don't want to deal with this i can't go i don't want to yeah and i'll get anxious about it but there's a stronger voice now that's sort of like just go that's me too i feel like i'm i've realized the the just go and just do is often a good, addresses the thing well.

I would argue to say that I do think sort of modern lifestyle of being quite sedentary and, you know, lack of real human to human interpersonal connection. And, you know, blah, blah, blah, the internet, all of that, which the internet has wonderful things and also horrible things um i would argue contributes i think to the like seemingly vast mental health crisis we're having well just the amount of shit you dump into your brain but you're saying you feel like you've had this also your whole life or not really yeah i do i i you know i track it to a sort of nebulous parenting you know where you know i don't know that i was given proper boundaries yeah i don't

know that i was given uh you know that the indication that it was going to be okay yeah and i think that you just get wired that way there's a certain panic to it that if you can't you know kind of rely on your parents to sort of comfort you and talk you down, you're on your own. Yeah. And eventually that's going to fuck with you. Yeah. I don't know what your situation was. You know, I think that's also that's my question.

I don't really know where mine comes from because I had grounded people. I had very wonderful or have very wonderful parents i think i maybe you're just sensitive i think i'm sensitive i think um honestly i do think for me a lot of it is modern life like i i i find my anxiety completely dissolves when I am actively engaged in like nature. If I'm out every day, like with people, with, with people. Well, not even with people with like the woods with the sea. Yeah. Um, I recently did a, I was just kind of, you know, it was just like, well, it's been

a lot of work recently. And so I, I was like, let me go to, on me go on a little trip to the shore for like four days. And so every day I was like surfing and like running around. I was just like in the jungle, in the ocean. And, you know, maybe it was vacation and I felt great. But it was interesting. Like my fatigue is completely gone. Really?

The way I eat, the way I, it's just like actively engaging in life versus I do feel like the majority of my time I am sitting behind a computer screen reading stuff, doing emails. Freaking out. Whatever. Yeah. And I do think that, I think a reconnection to people in nature is huge. But obviously for everybody it's different things, different backgrounds. Yeah, I mean anxiety

is anxiety and this stuff certainly escalates and sadly I like being all jacked up. Yeah. Yeah. And also I don't really realize when I'm looking at my phone just how much garbage I'm dumping into my head and what I'm reacting to. Yeah, of course. One of the other things that helped my anxiety was realizing that most of what I'm reacting to, most of the time, my brain is making up.

Yeah. And that to me was a major breakthrough. Yeah. It's sort of like, that's not real. You're not reacting to something real. Yeah, yeah. You ever do that? But it is interesting.

I will have that realization. A cognizant, like why am I having, even like very simple things. Like I'll feel like I'm getting a panic attack if I like find out. I don't know. I can't come up with a great example right now. Like that your food's not going to be here on time? Okay. Okay.

Maybe something, yeah, something like I was really looking forward to a certain meal and then that's not happening and i can find myself working myself up to a panic and i actually find i think i'm actually kind of a very laid-back person yeah um but and i and i realize i'm like why why am i having this very physical reaction right now where i'm like my heart is palpitating and i'm having like i feel you can feel the adrenaline just pumping through your veins. Yeah. And you realize you're like, this is over nothing. Right.

And over something that I used to not really have a reaction to. So why am I having this reaction? But it is interesting. And I don't think a lot of people realize who have never dealt with depression or never dealt with anxiety, how fully physical it is yeah it's not just like i'm nervous it's like a full physical kind of sometimes my chest tightens up yeah or i can feel it in my i feel in my neck or again back with my tooth i i had some stuff going on with my tooth and i and i had gotten um some surgery on it yeah and i came home the

novocaine wore off and I was experiencing pain. Yeah. And it was fine. It was manageable pain. Sure. And I was like, something's wrong. So I called the dentist. But I started passing out.

And I was like, is something wrong? The dentist was like, I think you're just having a panic attack. And I was like, okay. But it was over some tooth pain. Yeah. And so you're like- How do you even stop that? Yeah. How do you, not like some tooth pain. Yeah. And so you're like- How do you even stop that? Yeah, how do you, but I think knowing helps.

Yeah. And then knowing, okay, I'm feeling faint. What do you have to do? There's certain things you can do that help you- Breathe into a bag? Breathe into, I don't know, does that help? No, I mean, I thought that's a panic attack. Oh, I guess so, yeah, because then you're like hyperventilating.

Do you get that? You can't catch your breath kind of thing? I get that less. Thank goodness, because that sounds terrifying. I have to tell myself I'm not in a hurry a lot. Yeah. Because I'm like, oh, my God. Well, I guess you do so many different things, too,

and you're like running stuff. Yeah, it's just like my brain doesn't get any rest. I think both you and I need a little more meditation or something. I tried, man. I tried. Yeah. You stick with it? No, I only do it when I need a little more meditation. I tried, man. I tried. Yeah. You stick with it?

No, I only do it when I'm in crisis. It's not the time to do it. I know. I was doing it during the pandemic. Every day I get up. I mean, who wasn't? Who wasn't? I was working out every day during the pandemic. I'm still working out.

Well, the first two months. Yeah. Yeah. And then everything fell apart. I still hold on to that, but I let go of the meditation because I don't have the patience for it. I'd rather drink all the coffee. I like to get up and drink all the coffee and then I would meditate.

I'm amped. Wow. Yeah. A hyper focus. Yeah. Hyper focus. It's actually interesting. That sounds.

Sure. That sounds like a sect of something. Yeah. But then I just didn't have the- Hyper meditation. Hyper meditation. Highly caffeinated meditation. But then I just lost the patience for it.

All right, so in New York, what neighborhood did you grow up in? Now I'm anxious. Hard left. Sorry, I'm yelling. Oh, I grew up in Washington Heights. Okay. So, yes.

And when did you start doing the acting thing? What's your mom do? My mom, gosh, I could never, I don't actually know what she does. It's social work adjacent. Oh, really? Yeah, so she's jumped around sort of in that. Does she deal with people? Yes, yes.

Social work, they're unsung heroes of our world. Oh, yeah. So she does less like, she does a lot of like program management and creation. She does a lot of rehabilitation stuff. She used to work as like family mediator. She used to work with women in um domestically violent situations oh really so did she work at like one of those like a day center kind of thing or yeah she worked for like a non-for-profit sort of like organization so they did all kinds of stuff also rehabilitation

for like young men who were violent or also working with prisoners who were violent or women who defended themselves and were then incarcerated. So like all over that spectrum. So what was her sense of parenting? What did you get turned on to? It seems like a pretty progressive world. Was there art in the house? Music? Art, music.

I would say in quite a normal sense. I wouldn't say my mom is necessarily a highly artistic yeah individual right um i'd say she's like spiritual in mind and in being but isn't the artist i would say right my dad i would say is a bit more creative yeah um and you know i also grew up like loving to paint and to draw and i I would say, you know, my dad is a bit more. He was like he loved photography and he liked also drawing and things like that. But no, I think in my household. So I would say.

Did you paint much? I did. Yeah. And you were good at it? I mean, my dad is still like you should have been a graphic artist. Really? Or something like that. But I realized quickly that that was a hobby I shouldn't monetize.

You still do it? I do. Yeah. I love it. Watercolors? I like watercolors. I like acrylics. Yeah?

Yeah. Kind of all kinds of stuff. Big canvases? Normal. Abstract? No, I like portraiture. Oh, you paint people. Yeah, I need all photos and paintings to have a person in it.

Or else you get anxiety? Or else I'm bored. Oh, okay. But I would say my parents just did a good job of like, they just sort of let me be me. So I feel like I was sort of jack of all trades, master of none. Like I liked to draw. Was I a master at it? Absolutely not.

I liked to sing. I liked to dance. I liked making clothes. I also was going to work with animals and then I was going to maybe be a diplomat. And then I was like, I'm going to learn all the languages. So i've kind of been all over the place um how'd you land on acting um that was just one of my hobbies so how so did you do like just did it in school kids plays yeah and my first play i was seven i actually think so i did i was i went to after school because my parents were working and one of the programs that my elementary school did was just like the theater thing.

And so I did Annie and The Music Man and Guys and Dolls. I remember those three shows specifically. Yeah. And I think to this day I had such a positive experience with that. I'm trying to emulate the feeling I had. From when you were a kid? Yeah. How's that going?

You know, it's a process. Well, I mean, but the feeling of being on stage and- Is exhilarating. Yeah, but versus, all right, cut. Yeah, you know, that was a big transition for me. Like I totally had to readjust my thinking. And then also there's a difference, again, like monetizing your hobby. I think suddenly having pressure of like, ooh, there's money riding on this.

Well, when did that start happening? I mean, like how did you go to college for acting? No, I went to I was a French major in college. Yeah, I did a lot of theater classes. I lived in Paris for a year, which was quite formative for me. How's the French? Well, it used to be very fluent. Yeah.

It's less fluent now. Yeah. Mais j'adore Francais. Yeah. And I love Paris. Yeah. Well, you're an international person. It's nice to have that side.

I feel so fortunate to have that. And it's easy in Europe. You know, I had that European connection. And so it's easy to just drive around and go everywhere. So where did you learn to act? So acting, just like in school. Okay. To be fair, I went to LaGuardia High School, which is.

Oh, that's the one. Yes. Is that the fame school? Yes, it is. But again,'s the one. Yes. Is that the fame school? Yes, it is. But again, I don't... I'm old. That's what old people ask. That's where they did the fame.

I do. I will say, yeah, it is usually... Older people. Older people who ask about that. Yeah. But I will... People, I don't think, realize that it's a public school. It's not like... So kids from all over the city go there.

That's what's actually great about it. It sort of hits all demographics economically, like background, everything. And so it's quite diverse in that way. But it's just kids who like art. Yeah. And so, you know, acting, I just liked acting. I would do it in school. I would do it in school. I would do it in like local church or whatever.

Not that I went to church. It was just like churches that would put up plays. Do plays, yeah. And so my mom was like, you should audition for LaGuardia. And I did. And I was lucky enough to get in and have that very interesting experience. So I guess I had that primed. But again, I was doing a bunch of stuff. get in and have that very interesting experience so i guess i was had that primed but again i was

doing a bunch of stuff um and then in college i was like all right i'm i actively did not um apply to any conservatory programs because i was like i want to try other stuff yeah and so i did i did theater classes in college it was a part of that community but i was like i'm not majoring in theater yeah and because you want to learn other things broaden the education yes yeah and i took a lot of like courses on international relations yeah art classes i took i ended up being a french literature sort of major and um which you know i don't i don't know how useful I guess that is. What did you focus on though? Did you read like, did you read Rambo?

Yes, we read Voltaire and all the things. Baudelaire? Yes, of course. But to be fair, and I will say this. Yeah. I went into college not knowing a word of French. Yeah. Not one.

Yeah. And I just loved the language. I just thought it was interesting and I left college fluent. So I came out with a tangible thing. You can probably still read it pretty well, right? I can read it well and I can totally get by and do my thing. It's just not as

engaged as it was 10 years ago. And then I graduated from college and I came home and I was like, well, I've been acting for so long just on my free time. Like I can't not try it. Right.

So I tried. And then you started to work. I first worked at a casting office for free. To get in? Just to kind of be near it. Yeah. Whose office? Susan Shopmaker.

Uh-huh. And so she often had interns coming in and just helping out. So I did that like three, well, I was doing it like five days a week. And then I was like, I need. What'd you learn? A job. What did I learn? Well, I mean, seeing it that it's sort of, that's the beginning of the demystifying process.

Yeah. Honestly. Do you see how competitive it was and how I knew it was competitive? I think I think watching people audition was useful to see that etiquette and what that is like. Surely, I guess the idea of like it's not necessarily about talent, but just about what a project needs. You know, I remember specifically there was like somebody who came in and he was phenomenal, but he was bald.

And he was like, we already have this other guy who's bald and we can't do both bald men. And so it was like, you know, just stuff like that is I think good for a performer to see, to be like. That's like the saddest story ever. Yeah, he was great. I mean, that's why I always did comedy.

I never really focused on doing auditions because I always knew there's going to be somebody who can handle it better than me. I will say, though, I love auditioning. I love it. You do? I do because of that because the adrenaline i think i actually think the adrenaline i kind of i i remember that doesn't give you anxiety i think i'm able to which is why i can perform i can turn that dread into something productive like that specific nervousness that like I'm having indigestion, that thing. I think maybe just through years of doing it, I actively, I'm like,

this energy is now transforming and it's going to just radiate through me into performance. And then I can just like black out on stage and it just becomes like... If you're present. Makes me present but i i actually feel like internally it's transforming into like just it's like coursing through me as something

other than nervousness yeah and so i i think i think that is a difference with like somebody who performs like do you clam up or do you just let it go yeah yeah show yourself right i think i learned to just show myself and i think that with auditioning i feel like all right i'm gonna go in this room and i'm just it's my room yeah i'm gonna show them i'm gonna show them me yeah and i'm just gonna take it yeah and i learned i remember somebody told i just learned like if you need a chair you'd be like i'm taking chair if i start the scene i didn't like it i'm just gonna restart the scene yeah and i just kind of went in kind of like i'm not gonna apologize for being here i know you guys want to cast somebody you want to be done casting yeah let me be the ticket and i would just

throw my shit at the wall and then leave and then i'd buy like a tiramisu from italy or some shit and be like that's my prize for everything i have done what a good price so i found it quite exhilarating yeah um well that's a that's a nice take on it yeah and i think to me i sort of yeah i don't know you do it so much i was like you for me i was like i have to make this enjoyable so right away you knew that well i mean i find that about acting yeah like because i don't i never i didn't come up like that auditioning i i just didn't i you know But I always wanted to do the acting. But what I find about it is like, if I can do this okay, I'm okay at it. But how do I make it interesting enough to be like waiting around for three hours? See, comedy to me is terrifying.

Yeah. Maybe because I'm just not a comedian. Yeah. That's just not my thing. I mean, it's not a matter of scared or not scared. It's just like, how am I not going to be bored all fucking day and aggravated that I'm still waiting? Around, yeah, yeah. And how is the three minutes on camera going to be worth the day? Do you know?

Yeah, I guess. It sounds to me like the auditioning process for you is the most exciting part. I will say that when I book a role, I'm like, what did I do? What did I like? How am I going to replicate that? And so coming to set is definitely, I think, a balance of pain and creative ecstasy. Yeah. And I do miss the theater.

I do miss that audience reaction, that engagement. In some ways, when you do theater, you rehearse, you rehearse, you rehearse. But then when you're on stage, it's not the directors anymore. It's not anybody. It's the actors and the audiences. And there's something quite thrilling about that. Yeah, it's so present. I mean, there's no time to be anxious.

Yeah, exactly. Because you're in it. Yeah, it's so present. I mean, there's no time to be anxious. Yeah, exactly. Because you're in it. And you're problem solving as you go. And saving another actor's flub is so fun.

But I think I've now transitioned into, I find film sets also, it's just different. It's Just a different use of energy and different kind of bonding, different kind. It is quite different. Yeah. It's just an adjustment. It's weird, too, because you do these things that are very intense and there's a whole community to it. And then when they're done, you're like, all right. Bye. That is quite odd.

It's really weird. I do feel very first day of school every set I go to. And then three months in, you're like best buds. Yeah. And then you move on. And then you see someone five years later like, wow, I haven't seen you since we were like best friends. Yeah. For six months.

Yeah. But then I do think that that sort of like foundation does come through. Like you do have this sort of sacred like like, I've seen you at your worst because we did 16 hours together every day. Yeah. And there's something

very special about that. Well, what about the Atlantic crew? Yeah, again, I think, well,

I think. You guys had four years off. Yeah, but because the show changed all of our lives so completely, there's this like spirit connection of, we did this together and all of us changed because of it.

Yeah. And so I think we kind of have this, I don't know, this bond. Of course. For sure. And it's not like, you know, we have a connection, but we're not necessarily hanging out all the time in between shoots. And we do spend time together. Lakeith's sort of a trip, right? He's wonderful.

Yeah. I mean, I think Darius and him are quite intertwined as individuals. Uh-huh. But I think Lakeith is just this very thoughtful kind um yeah i think just very sensitive individual yeah um and like on set is so gentle yeah and it's just wonderful that role was sort of built for him. Yeah. I think it was built for him and he built it.

Right. You know? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yes, but I think that Darius and him are quite similar in energy and spirit for sure.

Yeah, I'm curious about that guy. I didn't interview him. You should have him on your pod. I've reached out. I think we've tried. I mean, I interviewed Donald've tried I mean I interviewed

Donald a million years ago before he was oh when did you interview him probably just after community and yeah he was like sweet and uh it was all ahead of him and then he became huge yeah like I think it was he had done the first Childish Gambino record and I can't remember what he was promoting when he was here but he was like a different guy. We haven't done a lot of those kind of interviews

but he's like a different dude now. Yeah. Like I interviewed Kevin Hart before he got big. Really? Yeah.

I mean I've been doing this since 2009 and there's people who I've talked to who are now beyond huge. Yeah. And I don't know

what their lives are like now. Yeah. Do you feel't know what their lives are like now. Yeah. Do you feel like you're huge? Me? No. You're pretty big. I don't know if I am.

I keep it small. Yeah. What's your relationship to fame like? I'm fortunate in that I'm a highly discoverable talent that most people in the world do not know who I am. And that's fine. I can still go to the supermarket. And most of the people that know me know me really well if they listen to this thing.

So then it's sort of like they have this one-sided relationship that's far too intimate. I'll see people. They're like, hey, did you get the toilet fixed? I'm like, wow. But I'm at a level where I can handle it. And I'm just trying to not be, it's a weird business. Because I've been doing a comedy a long time. I think I'm doing the best comedy I've ever done.

But I'm not huge, but I'm okay. How do you think the business has changed, I suppose? Well, I mean, everybody can just sort of carve their own way. That, you know, established show business doesn't mean as much as it used to. Yeah. I think the idea of, like, the traditional celebrity has changed quite a bit.

Oh, yeah. And everybody's got their own little... Everyone exists in a bubble. Yeah. If they're lucky. Yeah. Like, their own little, everyone exists in a bubble. Yeah. If they're lucky. Yeah. Like their own, like Atlanta is a thing

that some people love and they're crazy about, but a lot of people are like, what is it on? Yeah, exactly. Where is it? It's a weird reality that you can put all your life

and energy into something and most people be like, I don't know if I get that channel. Yeah. I think that I think can make, because things can be so much more niched. Yeah. And that's the way everything is. There are people making millions of dollars in show business in completely non-traditional

way. There are YouTube people like, I don't know who the fuck they are. Yeah. I'm not even sure they're talented. I think Twitch is like one of the biggest things now. I don't know what is that. What is that? And it's big for like video game streaming where people just play and they just comment on their playing.

But I think it's one of the biggest. Yeah. What's this got to do with the God particle? Everything. This is all the God particle has made all of these things. I know. Well, I guess it's just I have to say

watching Rick and Morty I really believe that there are many universes oh yeah I just I don't know sometimes I think about

the alternate zussies and I'm like I hope she's doing alright I can't I can't let my I can't make my brain do that. I'm barely holding on to this one. Yeah.

You know what I mean? Just the present thing. I can't. I don't. Maybe letting go of that would be good. I don't know. Then there's a lot of crying. Oh.

Got to hold on to something. So you shot all of that. Atlanta done for now yeah yeah is this ever yeah okay what and you did uh we were in the bad guys that was fun you were great in that voice is fun we yeah you did the snake i was diane yeah that's a great part now what about what do you what have you shot lately with the live action stuff big any big one honestly not much yeah uh i have i guess i have bullet train coming out i don't know when that comes out though what is what is that one so it's um it's brad pitt brian tyree henry who's in atlanta yeah he's He's great. I like that guy. He's also in that.

Was he a comic guy? No. Just actor? He actually got his big start on Broadway. He was original Book of Mormon cast. Okay. That's funny. Wasn't it?

Yeah. That's a comedic thing. Yeah. That's a funny show. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And he's, so that's where he got sort of his big acting start and then obviously has now blossomed in film and television. And many other people. And that's sort of this, it's like a action comedy kind of film. Okay.

Bullet train. Bullet train, yeah. And then what else do I have going on? I don't have anything coming out. Have you got? Atlanta season three and four are coming out. But I've kind of just not really been on set recently. I've just been

i'm trying to produce yeah and me and my partner have been writing stuff developing things your fiance partner or partner partner uh both oh yeah well partner fiance is also partner in writing and developing he's an actor right yeah i met him i met him in new york yeah at the screening at the screening yeah what's his name again david okay and so we're like doing a bunch of stuff together trying to you know get things off and that seems okay it doesn't make you fight it's made us fight but yeah i think honestly creatively we have the same taste. Yeah. I've never overlapped with somebody's creative taste in the same way we do.

Yeah. So ultimately, we have a different way of going about things, but our opinions on what the thing should be is always exactly the same. Oh, that's good.

So, yeah, but I sometimes think it's actually good. Like he's a more, I can be more like a laid back, like I'm very into like mental health

and like taking my time in my space and I can be slow to respond on stuff and he's sort of on it very much. How does that, like how does he handle your anxiety when it's nap time? Well, he knows me quite well and

knows when I need it and is actually quite comforting. What are you producing though? What's the plan? So he writes as well so he has a bunch of stuff he's written and we have a couple of things we've written together.

And some things we're out to directors on now. Some things we're about to pitch to some studios and are pitching and whatnot. And then we're also developing something. I don't know how. I have to be all secretive, I guess. Okay, that's all right. But developing something. TV for TV.

TV. Something with a studio right now that's good so yeah we're like it's very outside of my comfort zone for sure but I think that's good but it's exciting you're engaged doing things

yeah and I think sort of the idea of like writing or making things that I really want to be in because you can get sent scripts but that doesn't mean that yeah I mean it's nice to create your own stuff to be in because you can get sent scripts that doesn't mean that yeah you know they're always things right i mean it's it's nice to create your own stuff yeah so that's so that's the plan create a thing that you can be in that you created and uh get back on the stage yes and do a german film in german all german there you go i mean you should be my manager i'm working on it i'll get

on the phone right after we get done good it's nice talking to you yeah you too thanks okay folks wait i come out of that like you know well that was lovely um season three of atlanta is on th nights on FX. Streaming on Hulu. Bad Guys, the movie we're both in, is out April 22nd. Dig it. Here's some heavy sounds. Heavy tone. I'm going to call this my tone. I finally got it right. Got the right amps hooked up. Thank you. Thank you. We'll be right back. But meatballs and mozzarella balls, yes, we can deliver that. Uber Eats, get almost almost anything.

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