WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1321 - Bonnie Raitt

Episode Date: April 11, 2022

Bonnie Raitt doesn't feel the need to slow down. With the release of her 18th studio album and the start of an eight-month world tour, the prolific singer-songwriter knows what it's like to make the most of your opportunities. Bonnie talks with Marc about growing up in a musical home, falling into the Laurel Canyon music scene, struggling with substance abuse, getting sober in her late-30s and having her first hit album in her 40s. They also talk about Bonnie's continuing work with James Taylor, Jackson Browne, Mavis Staples and Lucinda Williams. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Death is in our air. This year's most anticipated series, FX's Shogun, only on Disney+. We live and we die. We control nothing beyond that. An epic saga based on the global bestselling novel by James Clavel. To show your true heart is to risk your life. When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive. FX's Shogun, a new original series, streaming February 27th exclusively on Disney+. 18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply.

Lock the gates! all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fuck nicks what's happening i'm mark maron this is my podcast welcome to it uh how are you? Are you all right? First of all, let me say that Bonnie Raitt is here. Yeah, Bonnie Raitt, the guitarist, amazing slide guitarist, singer, songwriter, just released her 18th studio record. She's got 10 Grammys and a Grammy Lifetime Achievement Award. Yeah, that one, that Bonnie Raitt. Her new album is called Just Like That. There's a couple of beauties on there. Just great. So excited to talk to her. And by the way, she tuned my guitar so I could try to play Slide, which I will at the end of this broadcast. Just saying. By the way, I went to the 50th anniversary party of the Comedy Store last week and I got jolted and there was something from that i don't i can't explain it

let me try to in a minute let me do this first terrytown new york at the terrytown music hall i'll be there this thursday april 14th i'll be in providence rhode island at the columbus theater friday april 15th this friday i'll be in boston at the Wilbur for two shows, April 16th. That's this Saturday in Portland, Maine at the State Theater, Sunday, April 17th. And then I'm flying to Moontower Comedy Festival in Austin, Texas. I'll be there Friday, April 22nd. I've got some shows coming up in Madison, Milwaukee, Chicago, Minneapolis, North Carolina. There's DC. There's a lot more coming up

you can go to wtfpod.com slash tour for ticket links and other info on that on the this may be the last time tour so yeah 50th anniversary of the comedy store now look a lot of you know my history god knows i talk about it enough a lot of of you know that I was a doorman there back when I was like 22 years old. After I graduated college, I came out here, became a doorman at the comedy store. And like, right when I walked into that place, I knew that my DNA, there was something genetic about the way I interfaced with that building and whatever it meant. I'd call it mystical. Why not? It was then, but I was psychotic from cocaine use.

But it was a mystical connection. Always has been. I was there less than a year, and it never left me, and I never left it, and it knows that I was there, and it knows when I'm there, and it knows when I'm coming. I'm not talking about people. I'm talking about the building, whatever it is, the organic structure. I'm just saying I'm connected to the place and I can't quite explain

it. And I was a door guy there. And the guys I would see on stage, a lot of them, a lot of them, you would never hear of. You never heard of. Right. But I was look, I was a sort of boundaryless, poorly parented, untethered soul at 22 had no real clear sense of self all i knew was i wanted to be a comic i knew i was kind of pissed off i knew i was pretty intense but other than that i didn't know much and i was kind of wandering emotionally spiritually physically and i ended up at that place and mitzi shore was uh the kind of uh I I hate to say that she was a maternal figure she definitely was a matriarch I'm not sure uh she had my best interest uh in mind nor did the place but it was a place to fight it out that's for sure but when I was there I took to it and

I lived in that house behind the place and I many of you know those stories and I used to go down to the store during the day and make my coffee and sit and listen to CDs in the original room as my personal stereo. But I just interfaced with that place. And the guys that I would see were guys doing what I wanted to do. All I knew about comedy and all I still know about comedy to some degree is that it's a way for people to make sense of things in a funny way and in a compressed way that you get up there and you take on the world and it runs through you and it comes out funny it comes out compact it comes out poetic

comes out lyrical however you do it it's up you. But you are a conduit of everything that comes through you and puts it back out into the world in a different way, a more compact or funny form. People, these guys made sense of things. These women made sense of things. Flesher, watching the likes of Joey Kamen, watching the likes of Steve Odenkirk, watching the likes of Karen Babbitt, Jan Hart, Karen Haber, Kathy Ladman, Kip Adada, Damon Wayans, Richard Belzer, Johnny Dark, Larry Scarano, Angel Salazar, Andrew Dice Clay, Nancy Redmond, Tamayo Otsuki, Sam Kennison. So many, right? You're going, who, who, who? Jeff Altman, Jeff Wayne, the guy with the guitar, Rick Wright.

Yeah. A bizarre cast of characters. Jackson Perdue. They were all there. Mark Godier. What happened to that guy? Anyway, a lot of people you don't know, and I don't know what happened to them. My point is, these are the guys I was watching when I was running around as head doorman,

jacked out of my mind on coke, trying to be cool, but just being electrified and connected and running from room to room to watch whoever. And just, you know, I had my attitudes. I had my judgments. I had, you know, I thought some of the guys and some of the women were sad. I didn't know where they were going to go, if it was ever going to work out or what were they doing up there? Why am I not up there? A lot of the questions, but nonetheless, my entire mindset was just, I was an appendage of that place. I was electrified by it. I'm running around just as this little kind of hyper, angry, poetic, 22-year-old, coked-up maniac.

But I was in it. So now I'm there almost every night now when I'm in town and I'm working. But my feelings about it are different. It took me a long time to shake i mentioned carl lebow steve kravitz steve pearl todd lemmish don barris sparky the guys i worked door with mitchell shane jay pope rodney blackman andy volver whatever so i've been kind of dug into the place. And so now comes this 50th anniversary. And I don't know who's going to show up. But I had to go.

I wanted to go primarily for the food. I enjoy buffets. No, I wanted to go to see who showed up. And I got there and I'm just running around. And it's packed out and there's a lot of people. But all the old timersers all the sort of unknown old timers are there and I got to be honest with you I don't know that Joey Kamen has had somebody as excited as I was to see him respond the way I did to seeing him in a long time I was like oh my

god Joey Kamen Joey Kamen are you kidding Same Steve Middleman. Steve Middleman. What? I was just let Joey gainer. What's going on, man? Barry Sobel, not as excited, but nonetheless, glad you're still alive. This happened. I said this in this tone, Angel Salazar. Holy shit. I was lit up, man. And i was running around that place like i worked there as a doorman again i felt like i needed to keep things going keep things managed keep things like keep things moving but i saw all the bruce baby man balm who was before my time but a lot of these cats knew ross was there. All of them. Great comics.

Do the job, did the job, had the job. Don't know what a lot of them are doing now. Fritz Coleman, the weatherman who was a comic, came up to me, had nice things to say. Many of them had very nice things to say about WTF. Jimmy Walker was there and said that I don't do interviews anymore because I already did it with you. He said he's got new people coming. He says people that come to my shows are old, but every once in a while there will be five or six young people and they'll come up to me and go,

we heard you on Marc Maron's show and we were curious. And we came to see you. He said that happens every few shows. So certainly what I'm doing here has had an impact, but I don't know that these guys know what kind of impact they had on me. I mean, I was, it was, it was different than a high school reunion because I was so formative. It was such a formative time that year.

I spent coked out of my brain at that place, watching these guys. They're frozen in some sort of Amber in my head. I remember them. Well, I remember all this stuff that they did on stage, but none of the big guys came. Not many of the new big guys came. Jeselnik was there. And it was so funny because I kept running up to him.

I say things like, do you want to meet Joey Kamen? Do you want to meet Joey Kamen? Fritz Coleman is here. You want to meet Fritz Coleman? He's cracking up. And Neil Brennan, actually, I saw him and Kevin Christie looking at me laughing. And I'm like, what? And he said, it's really kind of amazing and enduring that you're actually excited to see these guys.

I'm like, I am. And he's like, and there's no judgment. There isn't. Even Bill Kennison. Bill Kennison was there. And that's a little weird. You know, Sam was, you know, that was a lot. You know, Sam did not treat me that

well, but he did for a while. There was, but he was an electric being for better or for worse that Kennison who really put the fucking screws to my head and blasted my brain out both for good and bad, but seeing Bill who, you know, is not that whole crew was not the greatest bunch. And there's certainly reasons I could have for, you know, being that whole crew was not the greatest bunch and there's certainly reasons i could have for you know being uncomfortable but i was just sort of like i saw bill and it just reminded me of sam and there's a way that these guys that weird preacher laugh they both have and it was kind of like being visited by the ghost and it was kind of lit me up a little bit i got to admit it was very exciting it was very exciting to see all the old timers that have got lost

you know in the undertow of stand-up at one point i saw one of the old guys and i'm like i know that guy but i'm not sure i remember his name but i know him what the fuck is his name and i had to go into the hallway to find his picture on the wall from a million years ago to so so i would know his name and i could uh be polite i don't know man i guess some part of me still lives at that place obviously i'm there all the fucking time happy 50th anniversary comedy store they're having they're bringing hors d'oeuvres around you know it's all jewish themed it's like latkes and little knishes and little bagels and loxes. And there's little pieces of like little squares of pastrami sandwich.

Pastrami sandwich with some coleslaw on there. And I wanted to know where the meat was from, where the stuff was from, you know, what caterer it was from. And there was some woman, a young woman with a tray. And I said, so so where and she had the tray of the small pastrami sandwich pieces i said where is this from and she just looked at me and she says it's jewish and i it was the best thing i heard all night it's jewish i'm like what they told me it's jewish but what what restaurant? What's the caterer? It's Jewish.

Very exciting. It was Jewish, apparently. So look, talking to Bonnie Raitt was exciting because she's a great, great guitar player and a great singer, great singer, great songwriter. It was just a thrill. And it's like I got some world record it's so funny this is the other thing i want to tell you what i've noticed look i don't i'm not i don't consider

myself trendy but like this vinyl craze the buying vinyl thing i've been doing that for a while like i started buying records again i think like a week or two after i started everyone started buying them i kind of started the vinyl thing i'm pretty pretty sure. Not positive, but it's my feeling. Like I, you know, no one was doing it when I started. But what I've learned about vinyl in particular, and not about like sort of like, you know, excited to buy a new record necessarily. But if I go to a record store, if I'm shopping for records somewhere and I'm there for over a half an hour, uh, almost 80% of the time while I'm there, somebody who looks exactly like me walks in to look for records, give or take a color of pant or, or, or color of shirt or type of shoe. Uh, you know, just, just like to the point where they walk in and we look at each other and we're like, oh, yeah, I think I invented you.

Did I invent you? Are you real? It's just it's one of those things where you realize, like, maybe I don't know why I do things. Maybe I am just a puppet. Maybe my desires and my interests aren't my own. Maybe they're being mined and exploited and somehow or another i've met the other guy that has exactly my particular tastes it's an awkward moment but i did go like what are you getting i was the better one yeah that happens so look bonnie rate amazing i can't tell

you how excited i i was to talk to her new album uh just like that is available wherever you get music she's out on tour right now you can go to bonnierate.com to see all her u.s tour dates and get links to tickets and this is me talking to the amazing Bonnie Rait. You can get anything you need with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats. But meatballs and mozzarella balls, yes, we can deliver that. Uber Eats. Get almost, almost anything.

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T's and C's apply. You can move it close to you, because you can talk right into it. This is so cool. Yeah. Did you have your place in Highland Park, too? Yeah, I had a garage, but it was a more cluttered garage. This is actually nicer. Like, this one was, you know, I had it redone. This is basically, I had to make this garage into a house so it would be under permit.

For your own shack. Well, yeah, or either that. When I moved here, like, the people who lived here had it made into, like, a room for one of their kids with the bathroom and everything. Oh, cool. But they didn't do it on permit. So I got tagged right away. Oh, my God. So I had to either make it back into a garage or make it into a house so i

made it into a house fuck it nice nice oh so these let me just tell you this this relic business the reason i think it's great is because it's not man it's not assembly line the guy who did this it's like a work of art he had to make it like that into those specs of the old yeah it's wild i'm not really one for vintage or like i got an old les paul jr that i like but i don't know man i i don't i'm not a collector i mean i happen to have the same guitar i've had all this time but well it's a strat right yeah but i mean if i had if i lost i don't want people to come and steal it but if i had if i had to replace them yeah you know they're making new ones yeah they sound great some of the but some people go

crazy everyone there's all these rich people buying all these guitars man it pisses me off i don't want to teach his own but i'd rather that they donate it's like hey bonamassa leave some of this stuff out there we all want to get cool gear but uh yeah am i close enough yeah i think you're gonna be all right okay so look right out of the gate the title track of the new record is fucking devastating oh i hope in a good way yeah great way i listened to it twice and cried i cried i cried twice wow and that's you wrote that yes i did did you ever think that when you're like Feeling of Falling that you would write that song? That you would write just like that? You know, I have written in a third part.

One time I wrote a song called All at Once, either Longing in Their Hearts or Luck of the Draw, from a third-person point of view. And I love singing Angel from Montgomery every night. And I've mined my own personal life on so many songs that i've written over the last 20 albums so i just knew i wanted to write in a third person but i didn't know what i was what story i was going to do and then i saw on the evening news that you know how they do a human interest story sure they they had this you know we're going to we're going to follow a woman as she meets for the first time the man who received her son's heart.

And I went, wow, that's pretty compelling. And then, you know, it was very emotional. And then he sits her down on the couch and they're visiting. And he said, would you like to put your head on my chest and hear your son's heart? And I lost it. So that's when I decided to write a song about that. Like that song, because I'm like, it's weird because I don't, like I don't pay as, I'm like, I'm more of a, with blues and stuff, I'm more of a riff guy and I, in lyrics, I

gotta really, they gotta grab me. So I listened to it like three times and I'm like, you know, I'm like, the first time I listened to it, I'm like, did I miss the beginning of the story? And then I go back and I listen to it again. I'm like, oh my God, I'm starting to choke up a little bit. Well, I'm glad because it slayed me. I mean, I only sang it one time, and I could barely get the vocal out because it's really— One take?

Yeah, well, I was playing it for the band, and they just played along so beautifully. That was the take. Yeah. So this is like—it's been a while since you locked into just a band, right? No. Well, I mean, to play with my— On the record. But we played with each other since the middle, you know, early 90s, same guys.

And, you know, we just had to delay because of COVID. Right. And a couple of years before that, we extended our tour opening for James Taylor for a big arena tour across the states. I said, yeah, do you think I'm going to say no to that? So that was a blast. Yeah. And then, you know, I was going to make a record after that, but then happened so i had to wait for the vaccines to come in so you opened for james yeah is that fun it was a you know we've known each other we all came up at the same time you

know jackson and james and john prine and i yeah and uh you know james had already had a couple albums out and yeah we he came out on my set i came out in his i interviewed him years ago and i was i never know what to think of people. Because I have ideas about what people are like, but I didn't know that guy. And then when I learned that he had such a horrendous drug problem early on, I was sort of like, well, I'd probably get along with that guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because you get weird ideas about him.

Because you look at his audience, he's probably just filled with nice old ladies at this point, right? But a lot of them are drug addicts. I guess that's true. Yeah, well. But he's like, he always sells out and people love him. Yeah, those songs. That songbook is incredible.

It is, right? And he's just like what he seems like, too, on stage and off. He's the same guy. Yeah. I love him. Yeah, I was amazed. I interviewed Jackson during COVID, too. He got COVID, I think, at some point. He's the same guy. Yeah. I love him. Yeah, I was amazed. I interviewed Jackson during COVID, too. He got COVID, I think, at some point.

He did. Yeah, he did that Love Comes Together benefit that they just did again in March. Right. In New York, or I forget the name of it. That's the one you were supposed to do when I was emceeing. That's where I met you, and you got sick.

I wasn't. I've never been able to do that show because I was always on tour. Oh, no, it was the Americana Music Awards. Americana Music Awards. I got sick. Right. Right.

I did sound check. I know you did sound check and I was excited. I know. I was excited too. Angels from Montgomery. I know. I know. Luckily, I got better in a couple of days, but I was so sorry to miss it.

Wasn't that with John? Yeah. You were supposed to do it with John. Exactly. Oh. Yeah. It's too bad. I know. I know. know it was like a really

bad flu i had to go get get it taken care of yeah shaken yeah it was like it was i'm glad you're okay so wait so you and james and jackson where'd you grow up here combination of new york and la but mostly la when my dad was on broadway and pajama game in 1954 and 55 really and yeah he's a big broadway leading man he's original uh billy bigelow and carousel oh man yeah so you're in the theater yeah well the broadway theater little girl in the theater yeah right were you backstage doing i was backstage in pajama game you know he was that was the next big hit he had. Yeah. And then they let him be in the movie with Doris Day. So we moved out in 56 or 57. And I was here until I was 15.

So like, you know, 57 to 65, I was in LA. What did you do at 15? Is that when you hit the road? No, he got another Broadway show. So he was going to be on the road for a year trying it out. And I went away to the Quaker boarding school in Poughkeepsie, New York for the last two years. Is that where you were in the blues? No.

I learned it. I, like everybody else, I loved the Rolling Stones and I loved Little Richard. I loved, you know, Fat Stomino and Lee Charles and the Isley Brothers. Sure. I always loved Motown and Staxville. Soul music always killed me. And to me, I don't see a big difference between the blues and R&B. No, it comes from there.

Cropper just put out a record. Steve. Cool. Yeah. Cool. Someone just gave it to me. I't see a big difference between the blues and r&b no it comes from there cropper just put out a record steve yeah cool someone just gave it to me i'm sure it's good and guess what else what rye cooter and taj mahal just made it i heard it dude i can't wait to hear i heard it you are you are in the catbird seat mark well no man i get everything early a little bit i mean because they were pitching right and you know i talked to taj it was so funny i talked to years ago i talked to taj and keb mo together yeah when they were pitching right. And, you know, I talked to Taj. It was so funny. I talked to, years ago, I talked to Taj and Kebmo together. Yeah, when they were on tour together. Right. And, you know, the expression on Kebmo's face when Taj just kept talking, it was just sort

of like, all the time, man. Yeah. This is where it's at. All the time. The guy, he's like a national treasure. They should just turn the tape on. With Taj? Yeah.

Yeah. Well, I listened to that record. It's all Sonny Terry, Brian McGee songs. Can't wait. It's great. Can't wait. Because it's all Sonny Terry Brian McGee songs can't wait it's great can't wait because it's raw man like everyone's doing

that raw thing you know what I mean like they're just letting those the distortion it sounds great it sounds great those are great songs

I just watched some documentary on the plane of all the old blues guys it was I don't even know where they shot it it was kind of a weird thing is it the one in Europe?

yeah American Folk Blues Festival. Right. That's the greatest footage that exists on the earth today, from 62 to 66. Unbelievable. But it's a little weird that they built these porch environments. Yeah, that was weird. White people are weird.

They are, but I don't think they knew what they were doing. It's like, well, they have these amazing blues artists. Let's build a juke joint. Yeah, I know. It was the 60s. Yeah, I know. It was the 60s, you know. Yeah, I know. But I watched it. They had it on the airplane for some reason.

Now, that is amazing. You can't get it streaming on the ground. You can get it up in the air. Well, there's just some new service, I think, through Prime that they're doing just music documentaries. And they had that one. Oh, good. Because I had an old VHS of it. Yeah, me too.

Right. Me too. I don't have it in the new formats, which whatever that is, it's probably going back to. It's so, like, there's some stuff on there. Super 8 will be next. And you got to work with Fred McDowell, right? Yep. Fred McDowell, Muddy Waters, John Lee Hooker, all those guys.

Big Mama Thornton. Yeah. You know. But, man, Mississippi Fred McDowell, so incredible. What a groove on that side, though, man. Yeah. It's so haunting. And it's so specific. Yeah. And you covered one of those tunes. So incredible. What a groove on that side, though, man. It's so haunting. And it's so specific.

You covered one of those tunes. I did. We were supposed to do it together on my second album. It was Write Me a Few of Your Lines in Kokomo Blues. Right, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I opened for him at the Gaslight and toured with him. I was still in college, and I just loved him and loved the blues.

It's so good. I said, I'm cheap. I'll open for you. You don't have to pay me anything just let me come and you know hang with you and because of my connection with the guy who managed him and rediscovered sun house and he managed buddy oh yeah i got the you know talk about a great position of being i took a semester off from college just to hang out with those guys that's i can't like i can't even imagine it. Like, it was like, it must have been,

so, but how do you start? So, you're into Stax and Motown and everything, so what gets you to the blues? It was interesting

re-listening or listening for the first time to some of this stuff, like your first few records because it's, I don't know what you think, but there is a point

where, you know, your voice becomes full. Do you know? Yeah, yeah, no, I was a little shrimp.

Right. I couldn't stand the way it was probably around i was like smoking smoking and drinking trying to get my voice older and you know swag swaggering like because i had this little soprano voice you know and i and i was hanging out with all these older blues people and i just said man this is i i am such a wimp i don't i mean i love folk music but got to be authentic. And then by the time Sweet Forgiveness happened, I was kind of 28. You know, you're cooked at 28. You're cooked, but it was a fullness.

It wasn't a raspiness. It was just coming from the place where. Well, thank you. I don't go back and listen to those, but if you hear that and have heard it. You can hear it, the switch. I thought I had to wait until I was 40 to like it. No, you'll like it. So where do you start

playing the blues? How does that happen? Oh, you know, I grew up, I went to summer camp in the Adirondacks while my dad was on tour in Summerstock. And all the counselors

were caught up in the folk craze of the late 50s, early 60s, and I idolized my counselors. So that's what we did was we played folk music. Like who?

And John Baez and Odetta and Pete Seeger. No, so that's what we did was we played folk music. Like who? And Joan Baez and Odetta and Pete Seeger. No, that's 10 years later. Is it? Yeah. But I mean, this was 59, 60, 61 when I was a little kid. I got a guitar for Christmas at nine, and I taught myself to play. And then I heard on Joan Baez's Vanguard label was Blues at Newport 64 and Brownie and Sonny,

Mississippi John Hurt. Yeah. John Lee Hooker, Reverend Gary Davis, John Hammond, Dave Van Rock. It was killer. Was that the one with Skip James too? Yes, Skip James too. Oh my God, they found that guy. Yeah. And they put him up there.

What a haunting thing that was. Oh my God. I do one of his tunes in my shows. Which one? Devil Got My Woman. Oh yeah. Yeah, I love that song. And John Hammond.

I talked to john hammond isn't he great that guy i don't think he gets the credit he deserves i completely agree he's the reason i got good on blues guitar was because i was hoping to meet and i hope he would fall in love with me oh yeah run away with me did he no no he was already married but we were a really good friend because like his story like when i talked to him he's not real willing to you know to talk you know but it's just such an odd

heartbreaking tale that he's estranged from his father who signed Bob Dylan and everybody else and then Dylan steals his fucking band early on

yes like but like his blues I don't know why or how but it's so authentic it's so authentic and the guy is like

the body language when he's on that authentic and the guy is like the body language when he's on that stool playing the harmonica and playing a guitar it was just incredible i mean to me it's like as compelling as james dean you know oh yeah for sure i saw him open for the staple singers years i mean like i didn't see him when he was young but it was just him on that guitar i saw you know i saw him my brother lived in tucson went to college in tucson cool and i went to visit my brother. And the Tucson Blues Society was presenting John Hammond. I'm like, we got to go to that.

Can we still get tickets? I swear to God, there was like 20 people. Oh, that's a shame. Yeah, but it was in a small room. But he just, and we were all just sort of standing there. He inhabits the stuff. And he's been like that since he was a teenager. Wow.

You know, I mean, people say, how did you get like that being the daughter of a Broadway singer? And I'd go, how did you, you know, I mean, imagine the legacy he grew up with all these guys. But he really soaked it up, man. He did. And when I looked at the back of that album. Yeah, which one?

When I was 14, Blues at Newport 64 on Vanguard, and I saw that he was white. I went, wow. Wow. Yeah. And he mixed it up. Like, he did all kinds. Like, you know, he can do that acoustic blues thing, but then, you know, you listen to Source Point. I went, wow. Wow. Yeah. And he mixed it up. He did all kinds. He can do that acoustic blues thing, but then you listen to Source Point.

I love Source Point. Don't you? Yes, I do. Southern Fried, I love. That's with Dwayne, right? Too Many Roads. I love them all. Too Many Roads.

That's with the band. Yeah. Yeah, that's great. Okay, so you're at camp listening to this. I'm at camp, and I was a folky. Someone get me a bottleneck slide. What? And I soaked the label off of a Coruscant bottle because I'd never seen anybody play.

I just heard it said bottleneck. So a glass Coruscant bottle? So that was the closest. My parents didn't drink and that was the closest I could get. And I put it on my middle finger, which actually isn't the right finger. Right. But I didn't see anybody until I was already. I'd already learned how to play and taught myself all these Robert Johnson songs.

So it's still on your middle finger? Yeah. Because we used to flip the bird all the time in LA Yeah, yeah, yeah Like this And that's exactly how you hold the bottle Yeah But you keep it on the original finger Where do people usually put it? On the pointer?

Well, some people do the third But that's the ring finger and the pinky That allows you to use your other fingers to play more stuff Yeah But, you know, whatever. It works for me. So what was the first slide stuff that you kind of picked up? Who was the one that first moved you the most? Was it John?

Yeah, but Robert Johnson, that record came out when I was 15 or 16. But, I mean, Little Red Rooster was badass. Totally. You know, that slide play. And pretty soon my older- One of the Howlin' Wolf version? No, no, the Stones. That was the first time I'd ever heard slide guitar, but then I heard the real guys.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because when you're 14 or 15, you don't have- I couldn't drive. I didn't have any money. I couldn't go buy- You know, it was either you're going to buy the new Beatles, the new Bob Dylan, the new Stones, or a blues record. Right.

And it was really hard, because you had four bucks, and that was it. Yeah. And that's what the Stones did for us, though. Yeah. They gave everybody the record. Right. And it was really hard because you had four bucks and that was it. Yeah. And that's what the Stones did for us, though. Yeah. They gave everybody the blues. Exactly. Like, it's kind of astounding.

And, you know, even the Beatles cut a bunch of cool R&B songs. Yeah, for sure. And the whole British invasion, they brought the blues to America. Chains. Whose song is that?

Chains, my baby's got me. Because the Beatles did that. Yeah. I don't know who did the original. It's great. I love that song. Yeah. So that's how you got to it.

But to me, the difference between Ray Charles and old R&B and Lloyd Price and Brownie McGee and Sonny Terry, they weren't that different. They're just funky, you know? Yeah. Well, I mean, you can hear all that through all the music. I mean, then at some point you kind of picked up some reggae thread a bit. Well, we all, I mean, I was going to school in boston i lived in cambridge for six years where what school i went to harvard and was majoring in african studies and social relations and you know cambridge was against that you know there was 300 colleges all active against i lived there i lived in boston and then

you know the club 47 closed my freshman year which was a drag. What was that? Club 47 was this iconic, like the Gaslight, really amazing folk club in Cambridge. But anyway, Harder They Come came in and played the Central Square Theater for like two years, and I went nuts for it. Like a midnight movie? Yeah, but it was on prime time. Always, yeah. People wouldn't let it go. Right, yeah, yeah. So I went nuts for Toots and the Maytals and Bob Marley. I mean, people wouldn't let it go. Right, yeah, yeah. So I went nuts for Toots and the Maytals and Bob Marley.

I mean, the whole record and the movie itself. Yeah, and did you do a Toots song on this one? I did a Toots song that I was supposed to cut with him, but he passed away last year. Of COVID, right? Yeah. Terrible. Well, or they didn't say it was COVID,

but it was respiratory, so. Right. But yeah, I did True Love. I did True Love. Great did True Love. It's hard to find on my record in 85, and then we became friends, and he invited, you know, I did it on his reggae, a Grammy award-winning duets record called

True Love, which he did with everybody. Yeah. And then we did another one called Premature. Uh-huh. Do you still listen to reggae? I do. Huh. And I love Soweto music, too. Oh, yeah, yeah. A little different. Indestructible beat of Soweto on Earthworks. And I love Soweto music, too. Oh, yeah, yeah. Indestructible beat of Soweto on Earthworks. Get out of here.

Yeah, I listen. I just, I did a short interview with Keith Richards like a week ago, and I asked him the same question. Yeah. Do you still listen to reggae? Oh, man. Gotta do it. Yeah. I listened to some when I was younger, but it never became like a constant.

For you, it did. Well, like soul music, there was a certain era that I really loved. There's an era of a Chicago blues, certain era of soul music that was really more, it's more vintage,

what they call it now. The same thing with reggae and African music. Senegal music. It's a lot of current music is much more dance hall, big bass drum and all that stuff.

But some of that Senegalese stuff, I mean, you can hear that in Skip James. Yeah, absolutely. And Ali Farkatouré. People always say that must be where John Lee Hooker got it. It was the other way around. Oh, really?

Well, there's the Arabic scale. It goes back. The slaves that were brought to the south, to the delta, came from that western part of Africa. that were brought to the south, to the delta, came from that western part of Africa. And the reason why the drum is so significant in South America is because those guys came from the Congo, where the drums are more pervasive. In their music, yeah.

I mean, I listen to Taran. That stuff, there's some young guys doing that. Yep, incredible. Modu Moktar. Yeah. He can do that stuff. I got to go to Mali for three weeks with the guys that have that Afropop Worldwide, you know, that radio show on PRI.

They organize these travel safari kind of things where you get to go to the towns where the musicians you love are from and they put on a big party and, you know, you dance and see how, man, it was killer. That's great. Yeah. So you're in college in Harvard. And just playing for a hobby. And I was just playing in my room.

Playing slide mostly? No, no, playing folk guitar. Folk music? Folk guitar. You know, same mix of ballads like I did Since I Fell for You, which was a big hit when I was 11. Yeah. And I did, you know, James Taylor songs. I did an Elton John song.

Then I did Robert Johnson and Sippy Wallace. So it was always a similar mix, but I was just playing for myself. And then I met Dick Waterman and he managed all these legendary blues guys. In college you met him? Yeah. What was he doing there? He lives in Cambridge. Yeah, a friend of mine said, you want to hear Son House on the radio?

Was he the guy that went down and found him? Yeah. I saw a documentary about that. Three guys. Yeah, Nick Pearls, Phil Spiro, and Dick. And then John Fahey on the other coast went and found Skip James, I think. Yeah, exactly. But those guys went upstate and they found Son House.

They thought he was down south, and then he was a Pullman porter for 20 years in Rochester, New York. And then they put out Death Letter, right? Oh, God. That album's crazy. Unbelievable. So I got to meet. So my friend called me up and said, do you want to meet Son House? The guy who managed and rediscovered him is living in Cambridge, so right around the corner from where we were.

Right. So that changed my life, because that's how I met Fred McDowell and Skip James. Did they have Skip Pence, too? Joseph Spence? He didn't manage him, but I love Joseph Spence. That stuff's crazy yeah i'm skip spence is the guy from moby grape joe joe pence joseph spence they should do a record again i think they're both dead but i got a couple of those old records like what are they on our

hooli or something or yeah joseph spence is killer and rye covered him a lot coming in on a wing and a prayer yeah yeah yeah well okay so you meet meet this guy, and he hooks you up with these, you meet all these old blues dudes. So do you learn? What do you do? Well, I already knew their music, and I loved Sun House already, and I loved Fred McDowell already, so I just never thought I would meet them. And then I hung out, and I would get to go to blues festivals with Dick, and then I just started, took a semester off to hang out with these guys, because i knew they were up in age and i they weren't going to live forever

were you playing with them no i just was i was hanging out but my parents said if you drop out of school for a semester you're on your own so i got a regular job and then i at the american friend service committee what's that that's a quaker social action arm kind of like the peace corps of so you're always like were you majoring in stuff that you were going to engage your social activism? Social activism, yeah. Okay, okay, yeah. So anyway, I saw a girl playing in a club in Philly where Dick had moved to, and I said, man, I could do this. What girl?

I don't even remember her name, but I said, you know, I'd rather be working in this club than working in the day and walking a half hour in a skirt with pantyhose on. Right. And I auditioned and I got the gig. Yeah. Then I got another gig. And then Dick said, okay, I'm going to put you on a couple of shows with some of my acts. Yeah. And, you know, here I am playing with my heroes.

And to answer your question, did I learn from him, you know, watching him every night? Yeah. Who were you opening for? John Hammond. Oh, yeah. Fred McDowell. Oh, man. Then I opened for Cat Stevens and James Taylor.

Those are pretty good guys. Yeah. They're very different. Yeah. But to watch John Hammond, I mean, what tuning do you use? On open tunings? Yeah. Just open E or open A.

Okay. I mean, open those two, or I was like, oh, did G or D? What did Elmore use, E? You know, I don't know. I wonder. I think he used open E. Yeah, right. Yeah.

I call it the dust my broom keys exactly right exactly right so but but but john like you know you're just picking up those riffs you know i mean it's by ear yeah because i just loved it i mean that slide just it's people i don't know anybody that doesn't don't doesn't love slide your set your slide sounds great and it's specifically you there's a lot lot of show-offs, but you do the body rate. I got that slow thing. I learned that from Lowell because I loved Little Feet so much, and I asked Lowell how he got that long sustain on his slide,

and he said, here, here's this MXR compressor, and that's the trick. That's it? You compress the sound and it can go forever. That was the trick? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that got my attention so so you're touring with these cats you know the old guys and and cat stevens who at that time that must have been huge that was just one gig but it was a big honor and you know i was inexpensive i

carried my own guitar i did a little blues a little folk a little pop you know yeah and james all right so then when do you when do you come back here LA I I how long do you make the road for I started playing

these clubs and then somehow there was like a little bidding war people I said like listen for the first record

for a deal yeah I got I went to Warner Brothers and said if you let me have complete artistic control I'll sign with you because I loved Ry Cooter and Randy

and James were on there Randy so I I did my first couple and Randy and James were on there. So I did my first couple of records and then on the third album I wanted to work with Little Feet and I moved to California. So it was after Little Feet's what, first record? Second. The second record? That's when I met them during Sailing Shoes. And you know, my friends in Boston were, there was already James Taylor, so my male singer-songwriter

friends weren't going to get a deal because the record companies were going, oh, we already have James Taylor. We don't need another Boston. Right. Folky. Right. Meanwhile, I wasn't even looking for a deal, and I get one. So they were happy for me, but there was a little resentment.

So I got tired of shoveling snow, so I came back out here. But you were hanging around with Lowell? Yeah. Lowell and Little Feet played on my third album, along with Taj and John Hall from Orleans. Oh, yeah. And Billy played on a bunch of my records. Billy who?

Billy Payne, sorry. Oh, yeah, right. I'm sorry, assuming that, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But like, Lowell George, like, he's another guy that is underappreciated. Oh, he's a god in a lot of the music world, though. Right, right, right.

Guitar world. Yeah, but he died so young. Yeah, though. Right, right, right. Guitar world. Yeah. But he died so young. Yeah, 29. But they kept going forever. I think they still go. Yeah, well, funny thing about mortgages and kids. You know, you got to keep paying.

But I mean, once you love to do this, you're not going to give up stand-up. You know, because what would you do at night? You know, it's hard enough during COVID. What are you going to do? Talk to your... Yeah, I don't know. Comedy on a Zoom call? I don't think so. I can't to your... Yeah, I don't know. Comedy on a Zoom call? I don't think so. I can't do it.

Yeah, I don't know. I'm going out right now. I'm doing like a thing that I've never done before. And to me, it's kind of amazing. I'm just, I'm no opener. I'm just going out and doing two hours. An evening with. Basically.

What the fuck? Yeah. Yeah. And it's like, I've done it before, but not confidently. You know, because like when you, sometimes I'm like, I might need a buffer. I might need a cable. I know. And then you've got to take the training wheels off.

Exactly. Because Jackson started to do it. He loves playing by himself, but he was wondering how it was going to be tonight. Oh, really? To do a whole evening with. Do you do them? No. But I mean, I like sharing the tour with Mavis Staples and Lucinda Williams.

Of course. And I like standing on the wings and watching my friends collaborating. Yeah, Mavis is great. Soinda Williams. I like standing on the wings and watching my friends. Sure. And collaborating, you know. Yeah, Mavis is great. So it's a little bit of both. Those two, out of all the women in the world, those two are the best. Yeah, one of them's on the first third of the tour and then Mavis is on the last two thirds. How's Lucinda doing?

I think she's great. She good? Yeah, she's good. All right, good. I've talked to Mavis. She always seems good. Oh, 83 and pumping it, man. She's so good.

I love talking to her. All right, so you come out here and you're hanging out with Lowell. Now, are you hanging out with Randy, too, or you just love Randy? I love Randy. I met him, but he was living on Santa Monica's side, and those of us in Laurel Canyon, it was like this. I've probably done six

specials, BBC and documentary on Laurel Canyon in the 70s. In the last 10 years? Yeah, well, the last 20. Britain did it first, and then America caught up and said, let's do something about Laurel Canyon in the 70s. In the last 10 years? I mean, yeah. Well, the last 20. Britain did it first and then America caught up and said, let's do something about Laurel Canyon

in the 70s. But it was, you know, J.D. Souther and, well, Crosby and those guys, I think they were already in a higher zip code than that.

They already made a lot of money. Oh, okay. But, you know, at that time, the Eagles were just forming and Tom Waits. Souther was there.

Waits. Jackson. Didn't Waits sing on one of was there. Waits. Jackson. Didn't Waits sing on one of your albums? Yeah, he did. And he toured. He was our opening act in 1975. I opened for Jackson on my first national tour in 74 for my fourth album tour.

Then the next year, I invited Tom, and he rode on our tour bus with us. Oh. It was a blast. Now, what version of him was that? Well, he was still 75. He was in a string tie and a suit. A shirt and a hat. We'd pull into the town and he would go stay overnight

sitting in the lobby writing lyrics in a flop house in the skid row section of town. Then he'd show up for the bus ride to the next city and he'd hold bunches of paper full of lyrics. That was his thing? Yeah. And was he just playing piano?

He would just go out and play piano? He played piano and he had a bassist and a drummer. Okay. Yeah. Huh. That must have been wild to see him then. Oh, he was great. Because he's sort of one of those guys that kept going out there.

You know, when I'm thinking about it, I think he was solo on that tour. Must have been solo. Anyway, that was... Just on the piano? I have to check it out. Well, he's like, as an artist, to see that guy evolve and to see him shed that persona and then go into outer space or wherever he lives. How about that ballad of Earl, not Earl Scruggs, Buster

Scruggs. Buster Scruggs, yeah. Oh, he's great in that. He's really great in that. He's great. He's a good actor. He's always good. You're a good actor, too. I appreciate it. I love Glow. Oh, thank you. Yeahuster Scruggs, yeah. Oh, he's great in that. He's really great in that. He's great. He's a good actor. He's always great. He is. You're a good actor, too. I appreciate it. I love Glow.

Oh, thank you. Yeah, I love that, too. I wish we could have made the last one. Babes for days. Yeah, yeah, for sure. So, all right, so. And you didn't even have to get slapped around on the. No, no, not at all.

And it was funny. The funniest thing about that is like. How about me, too? Yeah, well, the funny thing about that was like I knew all these, like, like you got a sign in the contract whether you're willing to do nudity or not and i knew all the women were yeah they're gonna say yes because it's you know it's it's gonna be part of the deal at some point so i'm like i gotta say yes i guess and i i just had to show my ass i was okay i was okay i was okay with it i did it that's out of respect for the ladies that's great I'm gonna show something that's really sweet so alright

when these first few albums like on the second album you do Sippy Wallace song even on the first I did two you did two yeah

and so you're really kind of like doing a blues thing right well some of the record is blues for sure no I know

like it mixes it up but I didn't get a band so for me it was just acoustic guitar. So I had to play everything alone on my guitar, and sometimes I had a bass player. And then after I got Freebo, we were out. Who is Freebo? Is he still around?

Yeah, he's still around. He's a solo artist now. Okay. Yeah. Because he's, like, on all your records. He's on a lot of them. He was on the 70s, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But, like, were you also playing on other people's records? Like, was he part of that community? I sang on Dixie Chicken with Little Feet. I did eventually through the mid-70s. John Prine and myself and Jackson and James, we all sang on each other's records. That Dixie Chicken groove is one of the great grooves. New Orleans, man. Deep, deep, deep groove.

It's a great song. Lowell turned everybody. I mean, Little Feet turned us on to New Orleans. To that? I mean, everybody heard Working in a Coal Mine and Mother-in-Law and all that stuff. I mean, there's iconic Fat's Domino records, but Little Feet revived a lot,

turned people on to the meters. Yeah, yeah. And vice versa. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. But what was Oro Canyon when you were there? Who was hanging around? It wasn't just J.D. Souther, was it?

Well, no. It was Lil' Feet and me and- Zappa? Ned Doheny. Zappa, but he didn't hang. No. He wasn't a partier. Right.

Right. And, you know, the Eagles kind of soon, and Linda went out to Malibu because they were banking in the coin at that point, so. But is that after the Stone Ponies? Yeah. Linda was the biggest rock star in the country. Stone Ponies? Yeah. Linda was the biggest rock star in the country. At that time?

Yeah. Because I got those Stone Pony records. They're kind of interesting. That was really early, yeah. Yeah, and it's like, you know, she's the best singer

about those records. Yeah. She's a great singer. Great singer. How's she doing? She's good. She's good. Progressing kind of slow

that her condition or Parkinson's. Yeah. She's still good. I see her a few times a year. Oh, that's nice. Yeah. kind of slow, her condition, her Parkinson's. She's still good. I see her a few times a year. Oh, that's nice. So that was her time. That was when she was like everywhere.

I kind of remember that. Oh, man, that documentary about her is so fantastic. What is it, 70? James Keech did it. 74, 73? When are we talking? When you were out there. Oh, when?

Laurel Canyon. Oh, I was there 73 until about, I don't know. I moved up north in 1990. I started hanging out up north. Okay. So when did, like, so that was a party scene, obviously. But the Eagles, that was such a huge thing. So you were around when they broke?

I was on the road like 10 months of the year, and I made six albums in seven, seven albums in six years. So one of those two things so when the evil when the eagles were huge that was like a little later right 75 76 yeah it's weird that they it's it's funny like a lot of people come back into fashion but for some reason the eagles don't and i don't know why i just think they never went out of fashion everybody loves their stuff well i mean it's like i mean it's like- I mean, it's like Sly Stone. I mean, did you ever get tired of Sly and the Fairy Stone? No, I know.

I know, but there are certain bands that the hipsters like. Yeah, I don't have my finger on the pulse of who's- Yeah, yeah, but like the Eagles, when you really look at their songbook, it's insane. Yeah. Insane. Yeah. I mean, there's icons. There's bands like U2 and the Police and the Eagles and, you know.

Yeah. I mean, and then there's James and Jackson that just keep doing great records for decades and decades and decades so and randy our friend randy one of the greatest artists of all time underrated so funny too needs to be i mean of course he does great soundtracks too but you know he's a lot more to randy than short people you know oh yeah i mean i had him on here i talked to him for a couple hours once. Isn't he the greatest? I love him.

I love him. And I actually, I reached out to his agent or somebody afterwards. I said, look, if he's ever lonely or needs someone to talk to, I'm around. He's one of the funniest human beings on the planet. And you covered Guilty on, I don't know. On Taking My Time. That's one of the best songs in the world. It is a great song.

Great song. What is that? And if you're a druggie, the understanding of that song is so profound. Totally. It was totally in my wheelhouse at that time. And I did another one that was about kind of like I Need a Drink, you know, about that dark night of the soul, and a night called The Glow. Oh, another great drinking song. Was that the name?

That was the record, right? Yeah. Well, Guilty, that takes a whole lot of medicine for me to pretend that I'm somebody else. It's like, oh, my God. It's like, you know, you see, if you use, you just feel seen, and it's like it's not great, right? Yeah. So when did you hit the wall?

I just got heavy and wanted to lose some weight because I was going to work with Prince in the mid-80s. Yeah. And I went, you know, I got some trouble with my knee, so I had to stop running. I had a heartbreak of my relationship. And somewhere in there, just before my tour opening for Stevie Ray Vaughan, Warner Brothers dumped me and T-Bone Burnett,

Van Morrison, and Arlo Guthrie because we weren't bringing in the big coin. So I had to cancel the tour. They dumped Van Morrison? Yeah. Well, you know, the big corporate people took over the little record companies. You know, there was a consolidation in the 80s. So Warner's was no longer just Warner Brothers

with James and Ryan and Randy where they make their money from Deep Purple and Black Sabbath. And then they subsidize Little Feet and Me. Right. Or Alan Toussaint and The Meters. We were all on there and everybody loved the fact that we didn't have to crank out hit at who had renegotiated their contract but wasn't bringing it in and worth it. And that was me and Van and some other people. So I was having a rough time in the middle 80s. And Prince called up and said, let's do some stuff together. I'll put you on Paisley Park. Wow, Prince. And I said, you know what?

If we make a video together, I better drop some weight. So that's when I quit drinking was to lose weight. And I just loved it. It just went right to the hanging out with a bunch of musicians that had gotten sober. I kept hearing these stories. They looked better. They felt better. They played better.

So you didn't have some massive bottom? No. I had a fat bottom that was i mean you know i chunked up in the the stuff you could get away with before yeah you know tequila and and not exercising does not sit well on you and i had and i was heartbroken and pissed off about being dropped and my heart was broken and i was just trying to numb it out. Was that after your marriage? No, no, I didn't get married until later. Oh, so it was somebody else. Yeah, so in the mid-'80s, you know, the whole lurch to the right of the country went on,

and music had no place for roots artists like myself. And by the end of the decade, Tracy Chapman had a hit, Edie Burkell, Robert Cray, the Fabulous Thunderbirds. Yeah, Fabulous Thunderbirds. And college radio was rocking. Yeah. VH1.

Blasters. VH1 started to play adults. Yeah. And I said, man, let's get a new record label and put out a record. And what happened with Prince?

Nick of Time. Yeah. Well, it was a scheduling thing. By the time we got our schedules lined up, he had already recorded the songs in the wrong key

with lyrics that didn't really fit me. So we were going to meet together again in a few months and I canceled my summer tour so I could work with him in July and he forgot to call me and say he'd extended his European tour. So that just added more to the fire. Yeah, it was not great.

But you were going to be on his label. I was going to maybe. I said if we were going to meet in the middle, I said I don't want to to maybe. I said, if we can meet... We were going to meet in the middle. I said, I don't want to make a Prince record, and you don't want to make a Bonnie Raitt record. Right. So I was looking forward to it, but I'll tell you what I got out of it. Lost weight, got sober, and I've been sober 35 years, so... Yeah, I mean, I'm coming up on, I guess this is, I mean, 23, something.

I remember that, too. Yeah, and we'll be able to remember a lot of it. So Stevie Ray, was he sober when you were working with him? When Stevie and I, we toured together in 86 in the summer, and he got sober right after, and I got sober not long after he did. Wow. So there was a string of us in our late 30s, and he was younger than us. He got way out there, though.

He looked bad. He was playing. I didn't like playing messed up, and he could younger than us he got way out there but he did he was playing i i didn't like playing messed up yeah and he could play pretty high yeah and he's a monster and you know what then i got he came out of he was still in rehab and he came to watch our show in atlanta yeah and he was just freshly sober yeah and i asked him if he wanted to sit in and he was a little nervous yeah but he just killed it really and so that a little nervous. Yeah. But he just killed it. Really? And so that's my last excuse. I said, okay, that's it.

If he can do that sober. I'm going to do it. Yeah. I'm going to do it. It must have been wild to see him live. I can't even imagine. Oh, well, there's lots of footage of him. No, I know.

But in my life, I missed seeing Hendrix live. I see him on every piece of footage I can find. And record. But Stevie Ray was in my lifetime. Lowell and Stevie Ray and Jimi Hendrix, greatest. Sure. And record, but Stevie Ray was in my lifetime. Lowell and Stevie Ray and Jimi Hendrix, greatest. Sure. I like his brother. I like the way Jimi plays.

I like Jimi. I love Jimi Vaughan. We did a lot of touring together. And we've done a couple of really cute duets together. Oh, yeah? Yeah. He sounds like him. Yeah.

You know what I mean? He's a real original. Yeah. All right, so after all this, that's when Nick of Time happens? Yeah. Ninth record or so? Tenth? Ninth or tenth record?

Was it the ninth? No, tenth. Tenth record. Yeah. New record label. You've been at it a long time. Yep. And it was already a good, you know, I met Don Wise.

We had a great time. I had a new lease with a new record label that had something to prove. We made a cheap record. What is it about Wise? I've talked to him, you know, and I like him. Isn't he great? He is. He's like a strange little savant of some kind of musical,

like, I don't know what it is, because I love that. Did you listen to that Stones, Blue, and Lonesome record? Yeah. That's crazy, that record. I know. I mean, I can't believe that record. Yeah, it's pretty amazing. And that's Don? What is it about him? Well, I mean, it's them, you know what I mean? No, I know, but like, because you work with a lot of producers.

But he just helps, yeah, but I produce myself. Most of the records, I'm picking the songs and, you know, involved in the mix and how everything sounds. It's not like I'm getting produced by somebody else. Ever? But, no, I've never had somebody like Step. It was always like a collaboration. Okay, good.

Ever? No, I've never had somebody like Step. It was always like a collaboration. Okay, good. There was one time on my fourth album where my producer put strings and horns on something after I left, and then he apologized later. Anyway, but other than that, Don is just a vibe guy. Man, he's really smart, really knows tons about a lot of different kinds of music but he has the ability to distill what's great about an artist and get help them get out of their own

way interesting so he brings the essence of them yeah out and is just a soft-spoken mellow great non-egotistical guy but really a good musician, really insightful. And, you know, there's very few people with the vibe of Don was. So, like, you don't feel that he's guiding you or you don't feel that he sees? No, he's just another guy that's, you know, you may want to think of, you know, like. Does it happen on the board? In the studio. Well, that's engineer, right? Right.

But so does Don talk to you about, you know, like a take or like, you know, maybe. No, I mean, it's a collaboration. Interesting. I think we got it. What do you think? I'll do it one more just for safety. You know, at that point, you're just partners. Yeah, yeah.

And then so- Somebody with a perspective that's not in the room playing, so you just want one more opinion. Right. But you got to have somebody you really respect. So Nick, at the time, you were ready, weren't you? I was ready yeah and i you know hal wilner got don and i together to do this song for this disney tribute i love that album disney tom waits and las lobos did it too right right whistle while you work yeah that was tom right and they that i think las lobos did the monkey song it's a great record.

Poor Hal passed away. I know. Did you guys stay friends? Hadn't seen him in a long time, but I used to go on Letterman and see Sheila all the time. Oh, is that his wife? Yeah. Sheila Rogers was the booking person for Dave. Okay.

For years and years. Oh, yeah. Okay. Okay. And so I would see Hal, but Hal and I, I mean, I love those tribute records he did. And I loved him, and I loved, he loved N.R.B.Q. like I did. Uh-huh. So what came out of you and Hal? That's how you met Don?

Yeah, he said, how'd you like to do this song from Dumbo with Was Not Was? And I love Was Not Was. And Don was surprised I was a fan of his. Yeah. And I was completely surprised that he knew about me. Yeah. Because he I was a fan of his. Yeah. And I was completely surprised that he knew about me. Yeah. Because he's like a whole different generation. Yeah.

Well, that's nice. Yeah. So we hit it off. And I said, hey, man, I loved working with you. Would you ever consider working in the studio together? Yeah. Like maybe you could produce my next record. And he said, let's make a record that's just, if you can sing the song on just you and a guitar and a piano and make it sound like one of your songs.

Like nobody else could do this but you. Let's start with that stripped down and add the pieces we need. Oh, wow. And that's one of the reasons. I mean, Nick of Time musically is not that different than my other records. Right. But it just was a very, I was a different person a couple years sober. Right.

And just the vibe in the room. Yeah. Great engineer, Ed Cherney, we lost last year. And he had done Get Rhythm with Ry Cooter and El Ray OX with David Lindley's band. Yeah, yeah. And I went, Don, I got to tell you about this guy, Ed Cherney. I don't know him, but let's get him. Yeah.

So it all came together. And my longtime rhythm section, Ricky Fattar and Hutch Hutchinson and Don brought some guys. We had Ben Montant. We had Mark Goldenberg. Good stuff. Randy Jacobs from Was Not Was. But you had had some pretty big records before that. None?

Didn't you do Runaway? Yeah, but that only made it to the top 20 radio. One of my favorite songs. But I remember your version. It's so good. Thank you. But at that point, you know, they weren't putting the records in the stores as much. I didn't get a priority.

I thought they could have run with that a little bit more. Yeah. But Columbia tried to sneak me away. My contract was up and then Warner's matched it. But that's where they got pissed. They said, well, you know, if you're not going to make a big hit single, you're not worth the money we paid for you. But now it's different, right? It seems like.

I have my own label for a reason. Right. That's your label, Red Wing. Yeah. Oh, that makes sense. I just realized the connection. Yeah, but you know, John Prine did it first. Oh, boy.

Yeah. Records. And then Jackson did it. Yeah, I know. John's guy, he's the guy that reached out to me when I talked to John. Yeah. Like, all that stuff's on his own label. Why not own your own stuff?

Because when you realize after you've gone through this corporate mess that you do have an audience that's going to buy your records, put them out yourself. Well, you definitely need to have a team. You have to be able to put together a team and afford them that can run the company. Yeah. You know, that together they're going to be able to call and, you know, find out about distribution and delivery. Right. Sure. Keep track.

But, you know, when you have your own label, they actually pick up the phone. Right. Or whatever the equivalent is. Yeah. But, like, you're in charge, but you get the right people, and then you're sort of overseeing the whole thing. You know what I mean? Yeah. Radio play, record stores, everything. Right. Yeah. But you're in charge, but you get the right people, and then you're sort of overseeing the whole thing. You know what I mean? Yeah. Radio play, record stores, everything.

It's great. Yeah. Yeah. So you had that run of a few records there where you got a bunch of Grammys. Yeah. And it was all very exciting. Yeah. And you were sober, and you could enjoy the success.

And thank God it happened at 40 instead of 20. I know. I mean, on the other hand, look how many people are really handling it. Unbelievable success with so much poise and to get great lawyers, great advice. I mean, Taylor Swift and, you know, amazing. Have you worked with her? Have you met her? No, I haven't met her.

But, you know, Adele. I mean, people that are huge. They're handling it really well. Even Billie Eilish. Yeah. Oh, she's great. Yeah. I mean, yeah, I know, but I-

There's not a whole lot of crash and burn going on these days. I know. What happened? Yeah. I think we broke the mold. I guess. Now, what do you know about that? Because I listened to some of the selected stuff, and I love the fact that you covered

that Richard Thompson song Oh, Jimmy of the Day Oh my God Where's that guy coming from? And he wrote that like Pryne and Jackson in his early 20s When he was with Fairport Convention? Yeah Is that on Legion League?

I left that alone I think so I left it alone for like 25 years because Linda did such a killer job of it Yeah Well, I mean, have you worked with him? Oh, yeah. We toured together a lot.

Because that guy, I interviewed him once, and he's kind of a wizard. That's a good word for him. I never thought of it that way, but that's exactly the way to describe it. Yeah. Yeah. And I remember I was doing a gig in Ireland at Vicar Street. I've played there a lot. And he was there the night before me, and I got in the day before.

I'll jet lag the shit. And the guy who runs the place, he's like, you want to come see Richard? I'm like, yeah, I just interviewed him. So I was able to go backstage and watch him do whatever the hell he does with a guitar. Unreal. What is that? I know. He's completely his own zip code.

Yeah. And he's got a great memoir yeah just came out yeah hyatt's is really good too but richard's is really wonderful it's of the mostly of the early days of fairport and all that i gotta read that joe boyd one oh i didn't even know that was out well no it's been out for years oh okay well there you go yeah like about that that crew nick dra Drake and Pink Floyd. The string band. Yeah. What are those guys?

What were they up to? I know. Did you remember those first couple records? I do. Yes, I do. It was like, how many instruments are involved? Are they all playing at the same time? Exactly, exactly.

It was crazy. So how do you feel about the records that came after that? What was happening after? Luck of the draw? Yeah. And longing in their hearts? Yeah. And then I was really proud to do this two-hour movie that I partnered with Capital on,

Road Tested, with Kim Wilson and Bryan Adams. Who else was on there? What was that? Kim Wilson on Harp? I haven't seen him in a long time, man. I always thought he was one of the best. Oh, he's a killer. He's still got the fabulous Thunderbirds.

Right. Yeah, they're still touring. So I did a live two-hour movie, double CD, took a little break for the first time since that whole nick of time. I was on the road for the full Magilla, even before the Grammy nomination, and it was just nonstop. All of a sudden all these other places around the world were interested in having me come and play so

I meant something ticket-wise so I could afford to bring my band so I took a break and then decided after four records with Don and Ed to work with Mitchell Froome and Chad Blake so I did some albums with them yeah and then I started producing myself in the next decade. And it's always the same cycle where you prepare to make the record, you make the record, prep it to book the tour. That's about a year and a half process. And then two years to tour, and then you get to break, and then you make another one. So it's like a six-year cycle.

But this is, it seems to be the first record, this one, just like that, that you are the sole producer. No, I did the last couple. Oh, the last couple like that? Yeah. And how did you choose, like how do you, what's your process of choosing? Because I mean on, you did a cover of Right Down the Line. Yeah, Jerry Rafferty, it's a reggae song. Yeah, and it's like, how do you choose your covers? That's just what I do. I mean do you choose your covers like i mean that's just what i do i mean one i may not be an original songwriter that's really prolific but what i'm

really proud of is finding chestnut songs and rearranging like i did with runaway and yeah i mean it's not a shtick that i have i just love cover songs yeah i've done burning down the house i did in excesses need you tonight on the last record. And, you know, I love, I did a T-Birds tune on the live record with Kim. Which one? I Believe I'm in Love With You. That's the one with the break? Yeah. Yeah.

I believe I'm in love with you. Bum, bum, bum, bum. Hey, man, Mark, you're happening. Have you had the Blasters in here? Yeah, I talked to Dave. Well, I mean, but you were a little late. Those guys are after you, right? Yeah, but I was still living in L.A.

Remember Madam Wong's? Mm-hmm. Oh, man. No, but I loved that whole rockabilly, you know, rock pile, the Blasters. I loved that whole retro, Ray Campy. I loved the Palomino. I loved the music. What was the music connection?

No. I don't know. The one in the Valley. I don't know. Oh, man, that was so good. But Los Lobos, I talked to Hidalgo, and I think that band is the most underrated band ever. Absolutely.

I mean, and now they're sort of like, it seems like they're like, fuck it. You know, almost. Oh, but they're doing all kinds of cool little one-offs. They always do, yeah. Every record, they mix it up a little bit. Yeah, it's all, yeah. But they're so- They did a great version of the Beach Boys' Sail on Sailor.

On the new one? Yeah. Yeah, they did all, yeah. But they're so- They did a great version of the Beach Boys' Sail on Sailor. On the new one? Yeah. Yeah, they did all California numbers. Yeah. And I loved it. But like, they're such a tight band. Oh, they're incredible. Steve Berlin, holy Toledo.

And you work with- I did one of my favorite tracks I've ever cut is on a record. I worked with Mitchell and Chad because of Kiko. Yeah. And we did a few records together and I love the sonics of it.

I wanted to mix it up after I did those records for Nick of Time, that whole run. Uh-huh. And, I mean, there's a song that David sent me called Cure for Love that I did on that 97. No, I listened to that. Did he play bass on it or something, or no? No, he just, no, he played the guitar. Okay. Yeah, killer, killer, oh.

Yeah, he's such a sweet kind of- He is, yeah. Like, presence and voice. Yeah. So, what. Yeah, he's such a sweet presence and voice. Yeah. So what are you going to do? Are you going to tour? What are you going to do? Well, we start production rehearsals tomorrow. Really?

And then I'm doing Ellen, Kimmel, and Kelly Clarkson three days in a row. And then we start in Rochester like two days later. Yeah, Rochester. We have an eight month tour coming up from the US and then next year we'll go to Australia

and play Byron Bay and go to Europe and oh it's big yeah we usually do a two year tour we just had to postpone it because of this

pesky little pen yeah oh you're lucky you didn't get it yeah we're in a bubble like a basketball team. Right. I mean, this is testing, testing.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Most action in our nose since the 70s. Yeah. So you're going to do Kimmel, and you're going to do Ellen, and you're going to talk about this record. And Kelly Clarkson, too. Clarkson's got the data. And Good Morning America and all kinds of stuff.

I've been doing press for five weeks now, so it's like, you know, I'm doing, and in there talking to Norway oh really you know every hour is a different accent I have a song about recovery

on this record that I wrote called Waiting For You To Blow Waiting For You To Blow and the guy in Germany is going I don't understand

what you mean he's like reading the lyrics to me Riding Shotgun right Riding Shotgun Waiting For You To Blow it's all about the little devil

going come on yeah I love that song I knew it because I can never tell is this about Riding shotgun, waiting for you to blow. It's all about the little devil going, come on. Yeah, I love that song. Thanks. I knew it. Because I can never tell. Is this about some bad relationship she's in? No, it's about waiting for you. There's a little devil on your shoulder going, come on, stay up an extra three hours.

Have another piece of cake. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Why don't you just lie about why you didn't return those emails? Yeah. Collect a bunch of secrets and resentments. Exactly. Push to the limit.

Expectations or resentments waiting to happen. Yeah. The one I don't like is you're only as sick as your secrets. Yeah. I hate to say it, but that's probably pretty true. That's a rough one. You know what I mean? You know, people are always saying, so how long have you been recovered?

As if it's finished. No, I know. I was reading the press on this and it basically says she recovered from. And I'm like, nah, you never recover. You just keep going day to day. Yeah, exactly. And that's one of the reasons I wrote this. I wrote a song called Feeling of Falling.

I missed that feeling of falling over the edge. And then this one, Waiting for You to Blow, is just like that. the reasons I wrote this, I wrote a song called Feeling of Falling. I miss that feeling of falling over the edge. Yeah. And then this one, Waiting for You to Blow, is just like that, you know, the last line is, you know,

it looks funny, the lyrics are sardonic, but like, Moe's and Randy, and John Hyatt, they can write those serious topics. Right. You know,

but, you know, I let her draw love close enough to see she really cares, but no way did they get inside in case there's no one there. Yeah. Well, it seems that feeling of falling is a nostalgic thing.

Yeah. But this one is like, I need a meeting. Exactly. I'm just waiting for you to blow. Come on. Come on, babe. Let me make some phone calls, you know what I mean? Exactly. Well, alright,

so you're going to tour with this band, these guys? That's all? Different guitar player, a guy from Boston named Duke Levine and my old, long-time guitar player George Morinelli, who kind of wanted to take a break from the road after 50 years. I don't know why, but he's going to come out and be for like three weeks here, three weeks there.

But basically, same rhythm section I've had for decades and decades. Ricky Fittar, one of the greatest drummers ever. Hutch Hutchinson, my bass player since 1983, is brilliant. And a new keyboard player again, Glenn Patcha. The guy's on the record? Yeah. That guy's great on that B3, right? He is great, isn't he?

Wow. I mean, when you hear that sound you don't expect something new to be happening with it but he kind of does some i agree he's very yeah he was with amy helm and a band called olabell and then rosanne he plays with rosanne cash and rye cooter he did that johnny cash tribute tour that rye and rosanne did i'm trying to get rye in here oh but he doesn't want he don't want to leave he doesn't want to leave. He doesn't want to go anywhere. You should go over there. I would.

I don't know if he's afraid of COVID or if he just doesn't do it. Yeah, I don't know. But have you read his books? No. He's written all these wonderful books. Not a lot of books. About what? You know, stories.

There's a whole backstory about this lefty. It's like a little cat. So they're fiction. They're fiction, but historical fiction. Oh, interesting. stories, there's this whole backstory about this lefty, you know, it's like a little cat. There's like some interesting kind of, they're fiction, but historical fiction. Oh, interesting. Yeah, because like, you know, he's tongue-in-cheek, too. I just, I have no sense of that guy. He doesn't care about promoting

himself. What do you think that's about? Is he bitter? I just think he's done. I'm not done making music, but the music business, I think he's never been into that. I just think he's done I'm not done done making music but done with trying to sell it the music business

I think he's never been into that I just feel like he deserves like some I don't know if I'm the guy to do it

but like a kind of life I agree I'm getting a lifetime achievement award next in a couple of weeks at the Grammys and they should give

I mean Roy Cooter is the greatest guitar player that I've heard in this lifetime do you remember him from back in the day yeah but I mean, Roy Cooter's the greatest guitar player that I've heard in this lifetime. Do you remember him from back in the day? Yeah. But I mean,

I didn't hear about him until his first album. But not like with Beefheart or anything? No, that was after that even. Ah. So,

you know, he was, he played in Taj's first band, The Rising Suns. That's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then, you know,

his first album and he played all over Randy's album and Van Dyke Parks. Have you had him in there? No. He's a fantastic interviewer. Well, I've got to get up to speed on him.

I seem to have missed Van Dyke Parks. Oh, my God. What do I got to do? Well, try to find some YouTube on him, and you'll just, you'll fall down that rabbit hole. Which record is it? Well, I just think Discovering America or Coming to America. Not Coming to America.

That's an Eddie Murphy movie. But Discovering America, I think it's called. Yeah, yeah. That's the one? Well, they're all great. He's so, Song Cycle, that's, yeah. Song Cycle, right, right. Yeah, there are certain people I miss or I don't quite wrap my head around.

Well, you're a little bit younger and you didn't grow up in California, so. That's right. But I know that people love him and I know that he's seen it all and he's done it all. Were you in bands when you were a teenager? No, that's the thing. I never had the confidence, and I was never a complete nerd. I never learned songs. I learned how to play.

I can play blues and country. I can do a thing, and I play out a bit now. I finally, at this age, like Vivino will play with me nice now i love jimmy yeah after years of showing me licks when i do conan you know he i put together this little these two guys and i play at largo and do comedy great but like and i told vivino i was doing it and he's like i'll play with you and i'm like what that's great so he's kind of in the band so it's like but this time we're going to do it on aprilth, and he's out of town. He said, you're ready.

Just go do a trio. I'm like, oh, my God. That'll be great. Well, I've got to figure out songs that I can do like that. Oh, that'll be great. I'm trying to work out that John Lee Hooker tune, Little Wheel. Some of them do just weird little things with their guitar that it's not easy to figure out. Yeah.

What was it like with him? Fantastic. I mean, we've known each other since 69. So by the time we did that duet together, you know, that was just such a great record. It was a good record, yeah. Oh, yeah. But he and I were on a lot of blues festivals together. But when we won that Grammy for the best blues duet, you know, we did tons of press and tons of specials that are now just available on youtube

now there's like a tribute to his to him with roy cooter and robert cray and there's a whole bunch of us at madison square garden it's so wild because like he's one of those guys where you just got to follow him yeah well a lot of delta players they don't go to the four at 12 you know it's not a 12 bar blues yeah it's's more jazz kind of just listen and follow. Yeah, I mean, I listen to that. You know, I love that Hooker and Heat record because of the talking. The talking on that record is hilarious. You must listen to all my records.

That footage of him on that American Folk Blues thing. It's amazing. It's staggering is what it is. Yeah, I mean, it's devastating. It is devastating. That's the thing. it is. Yeah. I mean, it's devastating somehow. It is devastating. That's the thing. I don't even know why. I don't think there's anything that you and I are going to do on this earth, this lifetime,

that someone's going to say that was devastating. No. I hope not anyway. Because it'll mean the worst thing. That's right. So wait, before you go, so you're just playing the Strat? How many guitars do you travel with? Well, I have a purple cutaway custom

metal national that Larry Pagreba made for me and he makes guitar for Jackson and Keb Moe and some other people. So it's like

a resonating guitar? It's like a resonator but a cutaway and a longer neck so I can put the capo on five frets and get the octave so I need a longer neck

and it's got a couple of cool pickups in it so you can make it acoustic or electric and it'll mix the two but with the resonator and then I have a, of cool pickups in it so you can make it acoustic or electric and it'll mix the two but with the resonator and then I always play a Guild F50 so I have a couple of those

one open tuning, one regular tuning and then I have three Strats two are the signature Fender models they put my name on them so I could raise money for Boys and Girls Club's guitar programs so I started a guitar program in 200 clubs around the country that's great that's like wayne kramer the guitar the the jail what the jailhouse what you know

kramer gets guitars into jails and nice yeah nice so i have the the stratocasters and each one is tuned like a half step down from the other so i don't have to waste time on stage retuning yeah so i got the guilds the strats and i got a great, beautiful L-75 Gibson 1956. That's an acoustic? Electric. L-75. Jazz guitar. With like a sharp cutaway?

Yeah. Oh, yeah, I know that guitar. It's beautiful. You know your stuff. I'm not too much of a nerd. I can kind of picture certain things. And also, what about the last song on this new record? What was that involved with the-

Down the hall? Yeah. What's the story on that? It looks like there's a backstory to it. Well, like the title song, they're both third-person stories about things that I saw in the world that just moved me so much I had to write a song about it. There was a New York Times Sunday Magazine article in 19- 19, listen to me.

May 18th, 2000- Is it 2018? Maybe. Yeah. And it was about a prison hospice program in Vacaville, California. Yeah. Beautiful essay, interviews, gorgeous photographs about these prisoners that volunteer to be on the hospice ward and be with people when they pass away. Yeah. And I just was so incredibly moved by the story that I wanted to write a song, and I

just made up a character as if, you know, just out of the compassion in his heart, you know, he's in there and he's all bittered and broken up. Yeah. And you can imagine what it's like to go as intimidated as you are by all the strata of prison, tribal segregation, like, don't go over there. Oh, my God, don't mess with that guy. And then at the end of their lives, they're all the same on this hospice ward,

and that's what the song's about, is redemption. I tell you, you know, those two songs on this record, you know, I mean, the whole record's good, but like, just like that, and then that last one, the walk, what is it, down the hall? I mean, it's like, you know, it's very, like, your songwriting capacity emotionally is grown so much thank you i mean it feel and you know losing john you know

like that and you know it feels like they're they're almost like a i don't know you know what you gleaned from him but you know there's there's, there's, you have. Oh, I mean, singing Angel from Every Night and just. This is that kind of, these are that kind of songs. And that's what, you know, I had already knew that I was going to make a story song in a finger picking style, even before COVID and before John passed away. But I wrote the lyrics in 2019, but I put the music on it right before the recording last summer. And I had John in my heart the whole time. Yeah, I could feel it. Great talking to you.

Mark, it was a pleasure to be here. I'm a big fan. That is it. She tuned my guitar for me, and I'm going to play it for you. The new album is just like that. Get it wherever you get music. She's out on tour.

You can go to bonnierate.com. You can go to wtfpod.com slash tour to see where I'm going to be playing. Now, I'm not a slide player, but she tuned the guitar. So here I'm going to play it.

And Derek Trucks gave me this slide. So maybe just by virtue of those two things, it'll sound like something. Thank you. Boomer lives. Monkey and La Fonda. Cat angels everywhere. You can get anything you need with Uber Eats.

Well, almost almost anything. So no, you can't get an ice rink on Uber Eats. But iced tea and ice cream? Yes, we can deliver that. Uber Eats? Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get an ice rink on Uber Eats, but iced tea and ice cream? Yes, we can deliver that. Uber Eats, get almost, almost anything. Order now. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know, we've produced a special bonus podcast episode

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