WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1324 - Aaron Blabey

Episode Date: April 21, 2022

Children's book author Aaron Blabey can measure success by the more than 30 million books he's sold. But that success was a long time coming and in many ways felt like it was never in reach. Aaron tells Marc how the popular art and culture coming from outside Australia made him feel dissatisfied with his own life, how his excursions into acting and painting left him empty, and how he accidentally fulfilled all his creative impulses when he came up with The Bad Guys books. They also talk about The Bad Guys movie and what it was like to have Marc playing one of his characters. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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To show your true heart is to risk your life. When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive. FX's Shogun, a new original series streaming February 27th, exclusively on Disney+. 18-plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. Lock the gates! all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fuck nicks what's happening how's it going i'm mark maron this is my podcast wtf i'm broadcasting from i think again somehow or another i've managed to be put in a nice hotel room. I'm looking out at the city.

I'm looking out at downtown. I can see one of the bridges in the distance. I can see part of the Brooklyn Bridge over there and whatever the one is further down. I don't know what that is. Wait, maybe that's the Brooklyn Bridge. And right here is the other one. What is it? All right, doesn't matter.

and right here is the uh the other one what is it all right doesn't matter so look today on the show uh i'm going to talk to aaron blaby aaron blaby is the author of the bad guys books he's australian and he tried his hand at a bunch of other stuff like acting art advertising he did okay in a lot of different things uh his the the whole writing children's book thing didn't take off until he was in his 40s. And now he sold over 30 million books. And I don't know, I met him at one of the press events and I thought, well, hell, this would be an interesting conversation, interesting story, the way someone's creativity kind of finds its way if you stick with it. If you can handle your own talent without having it strangle you from the inside,

maybe you'll land. Maybe you'll land. If you don't let your talent kill you, if your talent doesn't turn on you and decide that it needs more than you can give, maybe it'll land somewhere where you can handle it and learn how to work with it and understand its limitations and you'll find

some satisfactory or satisfying life for yourself. But sadly, if you're very talented, that satisfaction generally is fleeting. That's just my experience and I'm not even talking about me. So I'm recording this a couple days earlier than it's going to be posted. And last night I did the Tonight Show. And I'm assuming that today something horrendous didn't happen while I did it that has become clickbait internationally. I don't think that happened. I don't know how it went. I can't address that because I'm recording this today that I'm going to do it.

I'm excited, though. I'm excited to see Jimmy because Jimmy is a good audience. Whatever anyone has to say about Jimmy Fallon, when you do that show, it I'm excited though I'm excited to see Jimmy because Jimmy uh is a good audience whatever anyone has to say about Jimmy Fallon when you do that show uh I've grown to like it more than all the shows really because he's excited for you to make him laugh he he was he'll just look at you and and he's like what do you got is this this going to happen? And then you do it. It pushes you to be funny. So if being funny is important to you,

I think Fallon's a pretty great host. Because he's like, I don't even need to talk. You just be funny, and then I'll throw a couple funny things in. That's what they're supposed to do. So I want to thank everybody who's come out for these last few dates. There's of dates that I've done in Tarrytown, Providence, Boston, Portland, Maine have just been great. But I saw a lot of old friends and that also was something. I don't know. I guess I also believe that the reason I'm out here on my own is that I need to reflect. Is that all right? Is that possible? I think it is. I mean,

anytime I drive long distances, it's meditative. But driving long distances by yourself, which I've done many times back and forth across the country here and there at different points in my life, you can really sort of put some things into perspective or spend some fairly focused quality time with yourself. Because driving is amazing because you're grounded and I've explored this before as a joke many years ago I'm not sure it really panned out but like you're very grounded when you're thinking in a car because some part of you has to drive the car and obviously if you've been driving all your life it's second nature but it is happening so that's attached.

So you can sort of go on any kind of flight of reflection or meditative thoughts or even trying to solve some things about yourself or the world. And you're tethered to the machinery. You're not just lost. So I think that there's something to that and something I also think it's a it's a it's a classic American kind of mode on the road, man. All right. So I'm weird. I'm still a little bit defensive at the core, I guess. I like people. I like to engage with people. I like to be around people. I like to sort of socialize. I like all those things. But if I'm left to my own devices and I have to think about that or there's a decision to be made about doing that or not, I generally kind of don't. And I'm not sure why.

I don't know why. There's something quiet inside me that is pathologically insecure and peculiar. is pathologically insecure and peculiar. But over the last few days, I've been able to spend time with people. One guy who I've known since college, since my freshman year of college, who's remained in my life and we remain friends even if we don't see each other for a year. We're still just, we're very connected and I love the guy. Great guy and an important friend, my friend Jimmy. And then there was this other guy that I saw in Tarrytown, this guy Cliff, who I also met my freshman year of college, but I haven't really seen him much, maybe twice or three times since college. I mean, since whenever the hell that was. When the hell was that when I went to that college? It was like, what, 40 years? Holy shit. but the odd thing is I haven't seen this guy that much since our

freshman year of college and we were only you know really connected I saw him a few times right after college we kind of stayed friends but I hadn't seen him since his wife emailed me and he for his birthday present he went to the town hall show in New York Cliff and I saw him briefly in New York when he came to the show and then we went and had lunch because he lives up by Tarrytown. And there was no distance. Like I knew the guy. And that's bizarre to me. And I don't quite understand that. You know, you have, I've, so many people have passed through my life. And oddly, because of my strange fantasy brain and my need to connect, I feel very close to people that would never, that I don't know, it saddens me that, you know, just old friends. Cause I like, I don't know if

it's cause I'm emotionally needy or, or poorly parented, or I'm always looking to people to, to sort of make it okay. I can't explain it, but there are people in my life that I've spent time with and that I've been friends with in the past that, you know, that I love and that, you know, if I really think about it, I miss having a friendship with them. But it's just not, it's not in the cards and it's not that important. And in comedy, I think, I think that's also why I love comedy and comedians is because we're this weird community that we're sort of guarded, we're sort of defensive and we're sort of, you know our own people but when we see each other it feels to me like a real community certainly with some of

them and we don't need to spend a lot of time with each other and it just feels intrinsically connected emotionally is my life flashing before my eyes what the fuck is happening but my point is like i was trying to understand that because I spent time at cliff and it was just great. You know, it was, we talked a little bit about what happened to people, but we don't know, but it was really talking about our own lives where he ended up where I ended up, but the core of it, the core of who we were as people was the same. And, and I have to assume that at certain points of your life, your, your neural pathways or whatever the hell it is are still sort of being carved out emotionally

and experientially or I'm just speculating. But if you lock in with somebody at a developmental point of your life, which when you're 21 or what were we, 19, I guess it still is really. You're still impressionable. Your core is set, but in terms of who you are and defining yourself isn't. So the people you meet along the way during that time, and I guess that's always, but it does get a little more narrow as you get older, you know, they stay with you almost on a genetic level, on an emotionally genetic level. There's just people like that that, you know, I just feel connected with in a way that I can't quite explain. It's almost familial. So cut to, I get an email from a woman

that I used to work with at a restaurant in Brookline, Massachusetts, Edibles, years ago. Her name's Alice. So her husband's a big fan. I haven't talked to this person since, it's been 35, 37, I don't know, years ago. I've not heard or seen this woman. So I get this email out of nowhere from her

that her husband's a big fan and she's been a big fan and she's, you know, they've kind of, her husband is a seriously big fan. And I never met him. I don't know, I don't know their life. I don't know her. And I would never expect to hear it. It was a total surprise to see her name pop up.

And she just wanted to tell me that they wanted to meet me and say hi after the show. And it would be, he would love it. And I'm like, oh my God, great. But then I realized like I was in love with this person. I had a huge crush on this person. I worked at a restaurant with her. Again, I was like, what, 20, 19, developmental period. And I'm sitting there. I'm working behind the counter

she's working the front of counter and we're you know there's a cast of characters there but I was I I guess I could say obsessed but uh I don't know she the way she framed the email was like I don't know if she remembered she was just sort of like if you don't remember me how could I not remember you but my point being is that it's that vibration it's that frequency it's either the developmental part of your life or just feelings even though the time was fleeting and it wasn't that long of a time I did not feel like there's any distance I met her and her husband Charlie great people great guy but I didn't feel like right when I saw her I was sort of like oh my god yeah you know and it was all kind of still there

it just stays there this sort of frequency you know it's, yeah, you know, and it was all kind of still there. It just stays there. This sort of frequency, you know, it's tempered, and obviously we've had whole lives and tragedies and whatever the hell our life is, but, you know, you reach back into that core group of feelings, that vibration that it doesn't, it's like, it's not even like time travel. It's almost like an eternal frequency. I don't know how else to say it. It's just, it's something that's sort of always there. You're on this same, this wavelength with these people that you've met in your life. And even though the wavelength dulls or seems to be disconnected for many years, like when you get back in it, if it's there, it's there. And those are the people that have made a profound impact on your life. And i'm just noticing it more and i'm just taking advantage of spending the time with these people and my buddy

jim he's the best and uh you know we've stayed in touch and he's had a very big life much bigger than mine you know he was involved in you know politics international politics he was worked for the government he get he bought a boat and boated around the world he made a movie in Bulgaria but like all when it comes back around to it you know he came to the show he hung out but when we sit down and we do the thing and spend a day together it's just Mark and Jim and all that stuff yeah it's there but it's that it's just re-engaging that wavelength and it's very it I think it's important for your heart and your soul and your mind if you you have those people, spend time with those people. Because I think that's a beautiful part of life.

Listen to the old man realize that friends are good. So The Bad Guys opens tomorrow. Tomorrow in the States at theaters. That's exciting. I really wonder what people are going to think or if it's going to catch on or if it's going to be an exciting big animation film for the family to enjoy. I have no idea. And I didn't, you know, I don't have children, so I'm not engaged with the books on a day-to-day basis. But I did look at

them in preparation to play Mr. Snake and uh it's exciting I mean obviously the push for this thing the press push has been monumental and but more than any other film I've ever been in but uh I mean if people enjoy it it'll be very satisfying. And, you know, talking to Aaron Blaby, he's one of the producers on the movie, obviously. But he's the guy that created the book. And it was a long journey to get there. And I met him at a press event. And I said, we should do the show. And this is this.

This is this. This is me talking to the creator of the bad guys books, Aaron Blaby. It's winter and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. me talking to the creator of the bad guys books, Aaron Blaby. No, but Moosehead, yes. Because that's alcohol, and we deliver that too. Along with your favorite restaurant food, groceries, and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details.

Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. The weird thing is, like, what do I want to do, man?

Is this it? Do I want to just keep plugging away? Or do I want to try to enjoy something? What about you? It seems like, you know, if you wanted to you wanted to you could be like all right let's call it a fucking day yeah i know it's it's well it's it's what is it it's two years away for me i've got this got a plan i do i do there's the books the bad guys books there's going to be 20 of them i've just finished 16 yeah two. Two a year, which two years left.

I've got a new series and then there'll be, that's only three parts that'll be finished the same year. And then, I don't know. Yeah. I don't think I'll be doing any more of that. Right. Because that will be, it's 48 books in not long. Like, it's 40 books in not long. Like, it's 40 books in 10 years.

There's 48 bad guys books? No, because I got three series that are... Children's books. Yeah, but they're all three series that are doing well. Yeah. There's a thing called Pig the Pug. There's a thing called Thelma the Unicorn, and then there's the bad guys.

They all have a life of their own. But Pig's a thing called Thelma the Unicorn. And then there's the Bad Guys. They all have a life of their own. But Pig's finished now. Thelma's finished now. Bad Guys is the last one that is yet to be complete. And then I'm sort of out the other side. And yeah, I don't know either. I have no idea what I'm going to do. But I don't know.

I don't even know. How old are you? I'm 48. Okay. So I don't even. It seems that children's books, as a business, that it's just going to go on and on. Yeah.

I mean, if you stop working, you're going to make money in your sleep because there's kids being born every day that need to read the bad guy's books or the pig book or the other book, right? Well, I like the idea of that. I'm too, I get frightened that that is not a real thing. And 10 years ago or something, books were dead. I was told, you know, you need a new line of work. No one's going to buy books anymore.

Children's books? Yeah, well, that was the thing. Suddenly it was all going to be digital. Oh, okay. Right. And that just never happened. No, people like to hold things they do yeah they do so uh i don't know but i guess for my point and this is just a general question that i have about age myself and my my peers or people slightly older than me is and it may be a relative to creative people in general, like, wasn't the idea to stop working eventually?

Well, I mean, maybe I'm wrong. I mean, wasn't it sort of like, I'm going to make enough money so I can not do this anymore? You know, I think what it was for me, because you've done what you do for such a long time now, this is something i found late i had done so many other things until i wrote my first book i was 32 but i couldn't give it away and i couldn't give away the first eight really they were not particularly successful so i just not bad guys no this is pre

bad guys well wait so so what is this do you, where'd you grow up? I grew up in the same, around the same area with one of the other people who's been on your show, Nick Cave. We grew up in the same region. We briefly lived in the same town, but not at the same time. You know him? No, he read one of my books once. He recorded one of my books, oddly enough.

But- Did you see him around? Was he the weird kid on the bike? No, because I'm a little younger than him, so I missed him. But yeah, he was always loomed large in my kind of youthful psyche as evidence that you could come from there and do something interesting. Get out and do something good? Yeah. So what town was this?

Well, that was Wangaratta. Wangaratta? Yeah. And what area is that? What's that near? That is not near a great deal. It's in regional Victoria, which is down the south of Australia on the east coast.

Okay. Yeah. So it's not like way over where Perth is. No, the opposite side. Okay. And it's, I wasn't born there. I was born in a town called Bendigo. Yeah, where's that?

About two hours from Wangaratta. And all of these are like two hours up for something from Melbourne. Oh, they're up. Yeah. So was it desolate? I have a hard time picturing Australia. I've been to Sydney. I've been to Melbourne for a couple of weeks.

I was in Brisbane. That's it. Is it desolate? I don't know if it's desolate. What I always really admired about Nick is he seemed to be able to romanticize it. He kind of turned it into his sort of dark Johnny Cash-esque landscape in his mind. It was something that I just had to I Escaped into movies that was my thing and that was that's why I do what I do is come from movies

Yeah, yeah, I did you know the invention of the VHS tape changed my life. Yeah, I've come from a big family Just me no your only child only child we moved all the time So I was there always the new kid the weird kid in my own head. Oh, my God. Always. And in your own head, but not in reality? Were you treated like the weird kid? I think only kids get a weird thing.

Yeah, I agree. But I think you're the only ones who agreed with me. No, I can't deny it. only ones who agreed with me uh no i can't deny it uh i i was i don't think it was ever anywhere long enough to kind of like i'd never got bullied but i think it was because i was i i developed the skill really early on to be invisible oh yeah yeah yeah and then but then it cut to however many years later when i was in my 19, I became an actor. But what business? Was your dad on the run?

Well, it kind of seems that way. There's not a good explanation for why they moved so much. He worked in, do you have building societies here? What do they do? It's like a building society. It's like a little regional bank. And he worked in those. Oh, small banks? Yeah. He moved around and did that

but that doesn't explain the number of moves. Yeah. But they stayed together your folks? Yeah. Yeah, they're still together. They've been together for a hundred years. But they're We're there. Are they in a regular city now? They still live in Bendigo.

They moved around and ended up back there eventually. But you wouldn't think they didn't want to live in a city? They're just comfortable there? They tried it. They followed me around a few times. They followed me to Melbourne. They followed me to Sydney. And then they always kind of just gravitated back there.

Well, they must like it then. Yeah, I think it's comfortable. So when you were a kid, are you drawing pictures or are you not drawing pictures? I'm drawing pictures, but it was really... Reading comics? Yeah, but it was movies. Oh, movies. But it wasn't just...

It was Spielberg and that kind of thing, but it was also other stuff. The day I got my hands on a copy of The Road Warrior was a big deal. A really big deal. Well, that The Road Warrior. Oh, yeah. It was a big deal, a really big deal. Well, that's your country. Well, yeah. It was just so, so cool. Somebody mentioned American Werewolf in London to me this morning, and that was a big – well, I remember I was nine years old,

and I got asked because I was the kid who loved movies, I got asked by some kid's mother to select a movie for this kid's nine-year-old birthday party, and I turned up with American Werewolf in London and terrified the entire room. That's a little rough for nine. Yeah, it is a little rough. It didn't go well.

With his veins hanging out of his neck. It was not a successful movie. Was it Griffin Dunn with his veins hanging out of his neck? Yeah, it sure was. But yeah, but like Road Warrior, what was the first one? Mad Max? Yeah. Yeah.

That's always what I assume most of Australia look like. Even though it was supposed to be post-apocalyptic. It kind of does. And if you, okay, if you do want to picture Wangaratta, you can picture the first Mad Max. You can kind of picture that. Yeah, so that seems desolate to me. Yeah, okay.

Do you ever go out to the middle, to the big mound? No. You can kind of picture that. Yeah, so that seems desolate to me. Yeah, okay. Do you ever go out to the middle, to the big mound? No. No, I've never been. What is it called? It's called Ayers Rock, or it's called Uluru. It's actually the proper, the indigenous. You never went out there? No, I've never made it that far.

That seems like a college, or like a trip you'd make with your friends. It does, but that would have required me to have had friends. What about bugs? Were there a lot of big bugs in your past? Well, I now live in the mountains outside of Sydney. It's incredible to me that Americans are always talking about how scary the things that live in the countryside in Australia are, spiders and snakes. But there's nothing in our countryside that will literally eat you like you have, though. You've got bears and cougars.

Your cats are in a little zoo because you can't let them out. You don't got any coyotes? No, we don't have coyotes. Well, that's lucky because they're spreading everywhere. Really? Yeah, there's coyotes everywhere. They're in malls. They're all over the country.

It's crazy. Just packs of coyotes. You don't got no wild dogs? You got wild dogs. We've got wild dogs. Well, that's not nothing. But they're not. What are they, dingoes?

Yes. Yes. But don't quiz me too much on dingoes. My very limited knowledge of the comings and goings of dingoes. I expect all Australians I talk to to know everything about the fauna and the wildlife of Australia. No, you're talking to the wrong guy. Although I do like the scary ones. The scary plants or bugs?

The bugs. The spiders. One of my sons is a terrible arachnophobe, but I kind of like them. I've got my technique down of getting a spider off a wall. I'm good at that. But, I mean, are they bigger? I don't know. I don't have any sense.

I just know that people talk about this stuff. Yeah. Well, we have a couple that are really unpleasantly deadly. There's a couple that will kill you stone dead fast. No shit. Mm. Yeah. In the house?

They can be. Wow. They can be. Are they easy to identify? Do they look like killers? They can be. Wow. They can be. Are they easy to identify? Do they look like killers? They do. They do. It's not up for debate.

You can tell straight away. All right. So now the character I'm getting that is you. It's like you don't have any friends in high school. You have another. Is there a couple other? Well, we stopped moving by high school. That's right.

It was the moving thing. Yeah. So I settled in a bit and I started to kind of, you asked about drawing earlier. I did draw pictures, but I always found it really unsatisfying because I was trying to kind of recreate

what I was seeing in movies, but on a page. That was something you did consciously? Yeah, I did. Yeah. And it always felt like there was a big hole. Like I would see something, I would want to try and recapture it somehow.

I'd draw it really badly and just felt like the and it that that kind of gaping hole was there from i remember i saw empire strikes back when i was six years old and it's been there ever since i remember the day i saw that film that's when the hole started it did i actually i i i recall that feeling of a sort of hard to define dissatisfaction from that. It sounds like bullshit, but it's true. With the world or with everything you did? Just with everything I did. And one of the other problems too was the Beatles,

because music has been the other. I'm not talented musically, but I love it and I'm obsessed with it. And I, as a kid it's funny the the Beatles that the the breadth of their achievement loomed almost too large it discouraged me from for everybody trying to do anything for a long time creatively you're sort of like what the Beatles did it it's over it's done yeah I mean the Empire Strikes Back and the Beatles I'm there's nothing left to do yeah that's how's how it felt. It did.

It really did. Did you watch the documentary? Peter Jackson stuff? Oh, yeah. Yeah, it was brilliant. Wow. The get back moment was extraordinary when he just whips it up. It's just beautiful.

But what's interesting is that you really see that it's a magic that you can't explain because it's not like they're doing anything that complicated. It's just four dudes and then Billy Preston hanging around, dicking around, but there's something about the alchemy of them together that is unexplainable. The thing that haunted me, always did, is the odds against Paul and...

This is the thing. Paul and John meeting each other is astronomical. But the fact that someone as good as George as well happened to also be a local and went, Hey, let's do it. I mean,

it's just, but then, and, but you know, but were they good at the beginning? I mean, were, I mean,

when they met, were they good? I mean, they all grew together, you know what I mean? It was just, I know. And look, who knows what impact the presence of Ringo...

Because Ringo was beautiful in that documentary, too. He seemed a little wasted. Yeah. But he seemed great. I don't know. His energy was kind of... It was. It was grounding.

Yeah. And that's what he's supposed to be doing. Yeah. Yeah. It's very special. So, yeah, they haunted me a long time. In the shadow of Spielberg's empire... Of Lucas and the Beatles. Yeah. It's very special. So, yeah, they haunted me a long time. In the shadow of Spielberg's empire, or of Lucas and the Beatles. Yeah.

But you weren't aspiring to do music, nor were you aspiring to be a filmmaker. Well, the only reason I didn't is because of where I was. Because they did it. No, well, also because of where I was from. So it felt like, like I mentioned, Nick. And that was later on I became aware of Nick, but it didn't seem possible because there was no evidence that could be done from where I was from.

When you were a kid. Yeah. I lived on the moon. I lived on the moon. I guess that's why I love Mad Max, because it was like this cool thing that had been shot nearby. Right. You know?

Yeah. And it made sense. this cool thing that had been shot right nearby right you know yeah and it made sense and to this day i can't look at an anamorphic frame without thinking of those crazy guys stuck on the like literally sitting on a little rig on the front of a car yeah yeah going 110 up a highway with the camera on the ground i mean it's the most beautiful thing ever and that was so exciting because it felt like something really just world class and sure and and from australia from australia yeah but cutting a whole new path through something i mean i don't know that especially the sequel the road warrior had such a big impact on

spillwork all kinds of people yeah went wow yeah all of them are kind of exciting yeah really the third one's not so great The one with The one with all the kids Was that the one With Tina Turner Yeah Yeah I don't remember Someone had the idea

To take cars Out of the equation And that wasn't Oh it was the Cage match thing Yeah that bit was alright But then they're Suddenly on a train

And it's been I don't remember it at all But I remember the one There's a reason for that Yeah with I'm not even sure I saw it Thunderdome Yeah that's right But I saw the one With what's a reason for that yeah with I'm not even sure I saw it Thunderdome yeah that's right

but I saw the one with with what's her name Charlize yeah fun good yeah really good fun

well that guy Hardy's kind of like from another planet he's Australian no no he's English no he's English alright so

no music no movie making and you're you're beaten you're what, 15 and it's over? Well, the next significant moment, it's another movie. It was Science of the Lambs. I saw Science of the Lambs. It's true. It was in year 11, which is what, you're a junior here at high school. And I got it in my head that I could fill that hole by becoming an actor. I was so deeply impressed by what those two were doing

in that film that I thought, that's what I'm going to do. And I moved to Melbourne when I was 17 and kind of willed myself into doing that. And I just, at the outset, I'm a terrible, terrible actor. On a really core level, I'm not good at it. Because I think I'm never properly inside it.

I'm always... And I did it for a long time. I did it for over a decade. But I think I was always kind of levitating over myself watching a scene trying to... Interesting. Yeah, not good. Not good at all. But it's odd that you watch two of the great actors I was always kind of levitating over myself, watching a scene, trying to... Interesting, but not good.

Not good at all. But it's odd that you watch two of the great actors, and that's undaunting to you. The Beatles in Empire Strike Back just took the wind out of your sails, but you watch Anthony Hopkins, you're like, I can do this. I know, isn't that interesting?

I don't know what the hell I was thinking, because I really couldn't. That's the thing I discovered in no uncertain terms. But it looks like you worked. Well, yeah, I did. It's just because in Australia, if you hang around long enough, everyone gets a turn. I feel like there's two beautiful actors from Australia, Ben Mendelsohn.

He's great. You would have seen a bunch of things and Noah Taylor is wonderful as well and I felt I've worked with Noah Taylor. Okay. You did in all my shows. Yeah. So this is your generation. My generation and I felt like because I had a passing resemblance to

those two guys when I was younger I felt like it was simply a case in Australia in some that if you couldn't get Ben and you couldn't get Noah- Maybe you would be the guy. You could get that guy, maybe. Well, it's weird that you bring it up because when you think about it, a lot of great actors have come out of Australia. I don't know why.

So many. It's crazy. It is ridiculous. Per capita, it's insane how many great actors have come out. It's sort of like the comedic talent out of Canada. There are serious actors out of Australia, and there's unexplain like the comedic talent out of Canada. There's serious actors out of Australia and there's unexplainable comedic talent coming out of Canada.

I don't know what it is but like what Heath was from there and Russell Crowe Eric Bainer. Yeah. There's so many great great Australian actors.

Madison something. Yeah. Oh he's he was Ben's always been my favorite I have to say. Friend of yours? I haven't seen Ben

in 20 years but he was always very kind to me. Friend of yours? I haven't seen Ben in 20 years, but he was always very kind to me. He was a bit older than me, and he was always lovely. So you didn't train as an actor? No, I fell into it. I was seen in a high school play and cast in a TV show. Really? Yeah.

And then I won an award for being in the TV show, and that was the worst thing that could ever happen to me because it gave me false sense of confidence that I could do it. Just the one. Oh, really? Yeah, just one little like low budget Australian thing.

Yeah. And I think the award was just because I was a fresh face, I think. I think it was, it couldn't have been anything else. And then what goes on? So now you're an actor

and you're living that life. Can you go on auditions? Yeah, all that stuff. The worst. Yeah, endless humiliation. Yeah, totally. Endless kicks in the balls over and over again. And by this time you're into Nick Cave and your music case has shifted? Absolutely. Are you into art? Not yet. Not at all. That crept up on me in my 20s and then I eventually became all about that by the end of my 20s and spent years just painting and thinking about.

Again, it was formless and pointless and didn't lead anywhere. But I didn't realize at the time I was actually laying pipe to do what I do now. So how does the acting end? The acting ends just with a really slow, sad decline of just... Opportunity? Well, I got a couple of things that in Australia were kind of a big deal, but they didn't do well and I take full responsibility for them not doing particularly well because if someone else had been cast in a couple of these things that was

a little more accomplished with what they were doing, then maybe it would have landed. You think? Yeah, absolutely. From the bottom of my heart. You just take it all on, don't you? It's true. And I know I have often got the feeling in the last few years that because, again, I spend a lot of my time in isolation doing what I do. uh because again i live i spend a lot of my time in isolation doing what i do i've got sort of hints a sense that like some people in the industry in australia might be even offended that like i'm

like i'm bagging the the actual projects and i'm really not it's me entirely what i was contributing because i hadn't i just had no sense of self at the time none and it was it was because i think I just had no sense of self at the time, none. And it was because I think I'd formed my version of myself by watching movies and kind of deciding in my head that I was going to be in that somehow. Right, but did your parents just walk you in a room? Because I had problems with sense of self too, but it was because I felt that my parents had no boundaries

and they were selfish and something didn't get finished. I'm not sure what it was. Right. It's a difficult thing because when you're old enough to realize that that's a problem, what are you going to do about that? Yeah. But you can always look at yourself and go like, no, I'm not quite there, am I? Yeah. Well, the thing of woodshedding it, that's entirely what I did.

I just, with my wife, I convinced my wife to bail on Sydney and we moved into the countryside and I started painting. This is after the acting thing. This is after the acting thing. You were just sort of like, did you have a crisis? Yeah, absolutely. It was, it felt like a really bright and positive crisis at the time because, again, I'm really, really good, I think,

at deluding myself that I can just conjure things out of nothing. And which I did as a kid, you know, a kid coming from Wangaratta and Bendigo, coming to Melbourne, deciding I'm going to be an actor. It's like ridiculous. But I somehow kind of made that happen. But through the whole acting thing, you never took any lessons?

No. No, I know. See, this is the thing. Were you in high school? It makes all kinds of sense when you think about it now, but no, I didn't. In high school, were you in a class?

Yeah, I was. All right, sometimes that's enough. Yeah, well, that was, I kind of felt like I had all the tools, which is just so stupid. It's possible. No. Oh, man.

There's a lot of, most of acting, honestly,'s possible no oh man there's a lot of most of acting honestly and I say this from talking to a lot of actors a good percentage of it is just natural oh yeah

for sure oh wow when you see good ones like you know yeah and I'm you know and all all you know

bullshit aside I mean I when I watch somebody like you who has come to acting quite late yeah it's it's

it's astonishing to me how you know good you are you know well I mean I thought about it

you know I mean I don't know that I have had I talk to people I get free lessons from famous actors when I talk to them if you listen to any

of my actor interviews there's at least ten minutes where I'm like how do you. If you listen to any of my actor interviews, there's at least 10 minutes where I'm like, how do you do it? You know? And most of it is just sort of, you gotta just listen. I'm like, alright, I'm good at

that. Kinda, for the most part. Well, anyway, so how did the crisis manifest? Was it dark? Was it... Well, it was... I'd had a creeping interest in painting and art. And there was a book about Picasso I saw, and I kind of... That was your art school?

Yeah, it was. A single book. Again, I did it again. I didn't do any classes. And I have a kind of resistance to that. I don't know why. And I just... We moved away.

I started to paint. And I painted some exhibitions, and the first ones went quite well. But again, I didn't really know. There was no narrative in it, and I think that was the bit that I... Abstracts? No, they were figurative.

They were paintings of women. I was painting boobs mostly, you know, and they were kind of nice, I guess, but they were sort of a bit... It was just learning how to use paint. I was just painting form more than anything else But you had a sense for it. Yeah, you had a feel for it I did I did for the first time I felt like I was sort of onto something but I missed narrative

And I think that what do you mean there? Well the fact the reason that I got into Acting was because I love movies. I loved the the idea of story being told and In painting I mean and people can do, you know, paint narratively, but I wasn't. And I just, again, it felt like a dead end, a roadblock. And then out of nowhere, I wrote my first book. And again, it was the one that didn't do particularly well. But how many paintings did you sell? You did good?

Pretty good. Over a couple of years. And again, I was doing exhibitions. There was only like six of them or something. But yeah, the first few completely sold out. So you had a gallery? Yeah, a couple of them. Actually, I had a gallery in Melbourne, one in Sydney, and one in Adelaide.

So you did the acting, you got on TV, and you did, what, a couple movies? Yeah. But then you decide on painting, and then you sell some paintings? Yeah. So you got some paintings. Yeah. So you got some talent. This is a creative life. Well, that's why I kept at it, you know. But then when I started making books and nobody was buying them, I thought there was a period where then I had went off and started working in, I had to work in advertising for a couple of years, which I just, because again, I was thinking, well, how can I put words and pictures together and kind of make a living?

Because I had two kids now all of a sudden. When did you get married? We were young. In the middle of the acting? Yeah, in the middle of the acting. We met in a play. Kirsty was an actress as well. She's not now.

What'd she end up doing? She's a speech pathologist. Oh, that's helpful. Yeah. It's a very, very worthy thing to do. It's a lot more helpful than acting. It is. Yeah.

But we were babies. We were in a play. We were acting. It is. Yeah. But we were babies. We were in a play. We were 25, I think. And we got married the next year. We've been married ever since. So she stuck with it. Yeah. Well, I guess your crises weren't too damaging.

Well, it wasn't a picnic. That's for sure. I'm wondering how the uh decision to go into advertising that must have been a good bit of wrestling oh man look it's it's i thought i could do it and i thought i'd find a way to and i tried to make it enthuse myself about it and i'm gonna make this this is you gotta be really smart this is gonna be great and i and i i was so as a there's the botanical gardens in Sydney. There's a place I call the sobbing tree.

Every lunchtime, I would just go and lie under this tree and weep. Really? I did. I just was so deeply depressed for the two years that I did that. Because you couldn't see past it? Well, all the stuff that I'd, that impulse from when I was young to somehow create something cool out of nothing felt like it had just died and I had to give it all up. And then when I bailed from that, I found a little sort of loophole by going and teaching at a design college because I'd sort of blagged my way into that by having worked briefly in advertising and painted, so I kind of got myself a job teaching design.

And that was kind of all right, but then that was when I convinced my wife again to move to another part of the countryside, which is when... Well, you're just like your dad, I guess. Yeah, it's a little bit, isn't it? A little bit, maybe. Now you understand. Like, I've got to run away from this.

There's no way we can make a new go of it until i change everything that could be it but so but but tell me about when you uh when you did the uh the first children with the first book so this is after your painting and you decided well you got tired of painting boobs you didn't see any future in it or you weren't enjoying it it was it felt it again, it was selling, selling like really well. Yeah. But it didn't feel like it was going anywhere particularly interesting. Oh, yeah.

So. So there was no, your life story was boring to you. Yeah. Not just the fact that there was no narrative to the artwork. It was just sort of like, I guess I can just go on doing this or but it would get boring well it had nothing to do with what i really love so my my biggest all those movies all my heroes are movies and songwriters they're my heroes yeah but but you weren't it didn't sound like you were heading in either of those but that but what's really is but this is the thing i think the reason

that the books ultimately became as popular as they have is because that once again it was driven in no way by an interest in what my peers were doing on any level I started making books that were entirely driven by somebody who had songwriters and movie makers in their mind as they work but well I took me it took me 10 years to find what I'm talking about now. The first ones were more personal. They were really, there was no trace of metaphor in them really at all. Well, what was it?

Well, the first one was about me and my wife, but in children book form. Right. And it was kind of nice. But it was, you know, and it was warmly received, but it was just, I don't know. I've got to move to Australia. It sounds like you can get away with murder.

Maybe, maybe. The guy paints boobs for a few years, got six shows, decides to act, he's on television, writes one book about him and his wife this night. Boy, it was received nicely. It was, but nobody bought it. Nobody bought it. Oh, okay.

But so, again, with the children's books, did you do any sort of research? None. None? None. So how do you decide how to talk to kids? You had some. Well, this is the thing. We just had our first, and it sounds like it was a conscious decision, but it wasn't.

I wrote the first one not long after our first son was right but i at the time because he didn't have a this is the other pivotal there was a few things but the books didn't get good until my kids were old enough to have a sense of humor and then once they had a defined sense of humor that i knew i could make them laugh yeah that's That's when I found my voice. For want of a better word, my voice. What was the first book that sold? Pig the Pug. It's a picture book that has been wildly popular

but is at odds with the entire picture book market because it has an edge to it that you don't expect to see in picture books. It's a dog who is mean and selfish. He takes all the toys. Another little dog wants to share them. He won't do it. He gets up on the pile of toys, falls out the window,

and ends up in an all-body cast. And it was an immediate hit. People just found it really funny. Well, I guess karma's a bitch. Yeah, that's it. They're books about karma. And there's a whole series of pig books, and they karma's a bitch. Yeah, that's it. They're books about karma. And there's a whole series of pig books, and they're all about karma. Oh, really?

Yeah. Like he doesn't get taught a lesson in the regular way? No, he doesn't. And it's questionable whether he even learns a lesson at the end. But he takes a hit. Yeah, he does. He does. And then all of a sudden, he opened the door,

because that was coming from a place that was i don't know it just it made me happy for the first thing i'd ever done that made me happy i went that's really funny and you did the art and the and the and suddenly yeah i was putting words with pictures yeah and i wasn't selling my soul right i was doing something that made me laugh and made and then i started touring around schools schools because I needed the money at the time and because I wanted to road test the material. What do you mean? In a funny way, it was a bit like being a,

it was my equivalent of being a comic because I would go to schools, they would invite me as an author. Yeah. I would put the books on a kind of a big screen, the artwork, and I would read or perform what was in them. And if I didn't get a laugh in certain sections, if a book wasn't finished,

I'd adjust and shift and then play it at the next school. Oh, yeah, Sedaris does it that way. Yeah, and I went around doing that, and I went to a couple of hundred schools over a couple of years. You get paid for the gig. Yeah. Yeah. Yep.

And that was how you wrote some of the pug books. That's where I found the way to pitch them. Yeah. Yeah. So, all right, so the pig, the pug books. That's where I found where to pitch them. Yeah. So the pig, the pug, that was the first series? That was the first one, but it happened almost simultaneously because, and this sounds like a lie, but it's not, when we moved to where we live now and nothing had worked, I was 40, but I felt like we had,

the kids were young and it felt like my last chance. Otherwise I was just going to do advertising or something forever. And I went for a walk and I came up with Pig, the bad guys and Thelma, my other character, that's found an audience all in like a 48 hour period. She's a plain little horse that wants to be special

she sticks a carrot on her head there's a there's a there's a truck accident where she gets covered in pink paint suddenly she's a unicorn but it doesn't work out quite the way she thinks

and that's being turned into a movie too Jared Hess is making a movie is that a series of books or is that just a one it's a little like a book in two can't keep the horse painted

yeah for 10 can can you? Well, yeah, no, I couldn't. I couldn't. I couldn't do it. But, well, it's a Netflix movie, but it might be a TV show, too. So I'm curious to see how they're going to keep her painted for a series. But she's got to be on to it, and she's got to figure out how to keep getting painted.

So, wait, once you sell it, you're out of the writing game with that um no because uh not directly like the like with the bad guys i worked with them because i came on and i was it came on as an ep yeah and every every draft and every cut, I was just sort of- You were on it? I was on it and did my notes and yeah. So what was this? Where did you take this walk that changed your life? What do you attribute that to? Had you quit your job at the advertising?

Yeah. I was still teaching. I was still in that last little window of- Oh, teaching the design? That's right. It sounds like a train wreck. As I'm describing this to you in detail- No, not really. I realize how- It's definitely not a train wreck. As I'm describing this to you in detail, I realize how- It's definitely not a train wreck.

It's not like you ended up in rehab or something. It was just sort of like, it sounds like you frame it as sort of a sad life, as a soul death. Really? Well, it felt like that for a while. I'm sure it was. How dramatic was the quitting of the advertising? It was great, but I just found it sky patch and just got out of the teaching. It was just a string of sky patches, really.

So where did you take this walk? It's in around the town where I live. I live in a town called Lura in the Blue Mountains. It's beautiful. But I just walked around. Maybe she happened to name that street after you. Maybe. Maybe.

This is where it happened. But it was desperation. That's all it was it was yeah it just came from that and a little door opened up in the universe and they tumbled out because the bad guys it's this also sounds like bullshit but it's not i texted a friend i had the idea for the bad guys and i wrote it down a single line 25 word sort of elevator pitch description of what the bad guys was yeah texted it to a friend and she texted back that sounds like a dreamworks movie come on before you even wrote a book it's true isn't that crazy it is crazy it's really crazy and it's that happened on the same street uh yeah it kind of did kind of special street man the magic street that street it is a magic street we've been thinking about leaving it I don't

really want to. I wouldn't. You don't know what happened. Don't mess with the magic. Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. Wait till you've finished all the books. That's what I'm thinking. You're reading my mind.

So the bad guys, what was the pitch for the book in your mind? From the book in my mind, at the time it was just the, it was, you know, Mr. Wolf, Mr. Snake, Mr. Shark, Mr. Piranha doing good deeds, whether you want them to or not. That was the original idea. And then once there was interest from over here, because the first Bad Guys book immediately did well in Australia, but in the US schools, it exploded like instantly. We sold like half a million copies in like a couple of weeks. Really? And that was more. Here? Yeah. It's a school aspect. Like the book fairs, you know, half a million copies in like a couple of weeks. Really? And that was more- Here?

Yeah. It's a school-astic as a publisher. Like the book fairs. You know, the book fairs in schools? Yeah. So the publishing, Thelma and Pig the Pug, those two, who publish them there? Are they school-astic? School-astic as well, yeah.

That's a global thing. It is. And then they pick up the bad guys. So like the other two, Thelma and the P pug book, they're big in Australia but also big here? Yeah. Well, what happened was because there's an edge to pig that I was describing earlier, the U.S. publisher was a little standoffish about it because it's just picture books in America especially are very wholesome. because it's just picture books in America especially are very wholesome.

They just, the messaging is very clear and they're very, very warm and fuzzy. And pigs, not that. Yeah. So they weren't really interested. And then when the bad guys just sort of exploded, they jumped on board and went, well, let's try the dog book. And how did it do? Amazingly well. Really's try the dog book. And how did it do? Amazingly well.

Really? Yeah, instantaneously. And each one of them has. There's been nearly, so I've just finished the 10th peak book, which is the final one, and all of them have sold over a million copies. So when you say book fair, that's when schools come to buy books? Yeah, no, you know when kids take money to school in an envelope and the little truck arrives and the- Oh, right, right, no. You know when kids take money to school in an envelope and the little truck arrives and the...

Oh, right, right, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's kids, generally speaking, it's a kid's first experience of going and purchasing something that they want themselves. And it's a book at school. They get to choose. There's no conversation about it.

They get to choose what they wanted to buy that day. And there's something about the cover of the first Bag Eyes book, I guess, that just captured the- Really? Yeah. And it took off. And you've got to remember, by this point- How old are these kids? What are the ages?

Like six to 12. Yeah. But my first eight books or something, none of them had sold over like 5,000 copies. You know, like tiny little print runs. In Australia? In Australia, nowhere else. So to suddenly have sold half a million in America was so far beyond my wildest dreams. What were the eight books?

So the one with you and your wife? Yeah, then there was one kind of about, it was a thinly veiled version of me moving around when I was a kid. They were a bit too literal, the earlier ones. And then there was one that was actually pretty funny about a kid who complained so much that his head fell off. And that, but again, didn't find an audience. It was too weird, I think.

No animals though. No, this is the thing. I changed publisher. I kind of got poached by a new It was too weird, I think. No animals, though. No, this is the thing. I changed publisher. I kind of got poached by a new publisher, Scholastic, in Australia, and the publisher made one suggestion, which is just so obvious, but he said, can you do what you do, but do it with animals? Yeah. And there it was.

You're being a little too honest, a little too forthright. Give the animals the human problem. You've shown your little too honest, a little too forthright. Give the animals the human problem. You're showing your hand too much. Yeah, I think that's what happened. Well, then that's a great story. So then you do the first bad guy's book, and now you're off and running? Yeah. But at the time, because again, there hadn't been a hint of commercial success to that point.

So I wrote it with such kind of abandon because I thought, well, who cares? No one's going to buy it anyway. Right. And I wrote exactly what I wanted to do. And The Bad Guys, without any kind of melodrama of any kind, is precisely the thing I'd been looking for since I was a little boy. That was the thing. It filled that hole. The movie hole.

I suddenly had a vehicle where I could pour all the stuff that I love the way that, because it's such a weird idea to take the scary animals and a car from Mad Max and a Tarantino movie and mash them all together. Because the other movie that changed my life in not a great way at the time was Reservoir Dogs. Because I saw Reservoir Dogs and it haunted me for years. I saw it one night before because I didn't realize Reservoir Dogs

wasn't popular or really successful commercially until after Pulp Fiction. People found it retrospectively. It was just a little movie. But I saw it the week it came out just accidentally. I saw the poster, thought it looked cool, went in and had my mind blown and went five times that week. And was obsessed with it. Obsessed. What was it about it?

It just, it spoke to me in a way that very few movies had. I just thought it was so funny and so just the way he'd taken cinema history and just mashed it up in his own. Uh-huh. It's just, and I think it's part of, you know, I love, again, musically, I love the way the Beastie Boys would always sort of, the Balbird thing where they'd take elements and mash them together and create something new. And I love about Tarantino and the Beasties and that kind of, you know,

beautiful, playful appropriation yeah other people's work i love it yeah and but again without i felt that sort of impotent feeling of not being able to do that myself until the bad guys yeah and suddenly when i had these animals in suits in that car bam everything suddenly overnight became possible so that single book which i never thought it'd be more than one book turned into a 20 story arc which just i plotted like i've known how the story would end from the beginning really i had this whole thing it just flooded out of me wow yeah it's been like the it's the most it's been the most beautiful experience the last it's been the most beautiful experience. It's been nine years now that I've been working on it, and it is everything.

It's fulfilled every... And the best way I can describe it is that me as a kid and me as a 13-year-old would be so happy with what I'm doing now. That's the coolest that's the most, that's the coolest thing about it. And that was 20 books. Now it's 40, right? Well, all together, all together my books.

All the books, oh. So there's been 10 Pig, there'll be 20 Bad Guys, there's three of this other new thing I'm doing. Oh, good, yeah, yeah, yeah. But added together, it'll be 48 by the time I'm sort of done. Whether it's a comma or a full stop, I don't know. So from the beginning, you saw the arc of Bad Guys? I mean, you kind of knew it? Yeah, I had the first, in my head of the 20 books,

there were kind of like two seasons of 10. Right. But yeah, I did figure it out in advance, and it just sort of fell together. In a funny way, they kind of write themselves. I just sort of... Yeah. It's been really clear to me. I don't wrestle with them.

I know the turns really, really instinctively with those books. They're just fun to write. Yeah, because when I saw you here, when we did the press a few weeks ago, you said you had to finish a book or write a book. And then when I arrived, I got COVID almost immediately and was trapped in my hotel room for two weeks. And I wasn't sick.

I was fine. But I wrote the next two books. Since I saw you last, I've written the next two. Really? Yeah, and they're good. I'm really excited about them. Yeah? They're not the last two.

They're the second last two, so the episodes 17 and 18. Do you do the art too? No. No, so what I'll do is I've got the story. It's like a screenplay. I've written the scenes, the 10 the scenes the 10 chapters the scenes the dialogue i'll go home and i'll paginate which is come up with all the little thumbnails of where the panels are going to be yeah which is kind of a big job and then i'll do the rough drawings of all of that which

takes about a month and then when that's all done for those two books then we'll do some editing and then i start the finished art which takes forever takes that's the done for those two books, then we'll do some editing and then I start the finished art, which takes forever. That's the most of my years doing the finished drawings. Really? Yeah, which is the bit that I'm kind of looking forward to being, to completing, I have to say. Because that's, it's also where I'm most limited.

I find I'm, there's a, I slip into a place of relaxation, happiness, and kind of acuity with the storytelling and coming up with things. The drawings, I feel like I'm always pushing right at the limit of whatever talent I have. I always feel like, it's constantly a feeling of icy road, bald tires. Always. Always. It's true. Well, it's weird. It's good that you keep doing it would it seem like you could have just hired a guy to do it after yeah i know no no way and i think but i think it's also why they've been successful because i think there is a there's a scrappiness

and a and a frankly occasionally incompetent look to the artwork that I think is really appealing. Sure. Because it's just, it doesn't feel... Precious. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. So when we were talking in the kitchen, though,

you said that you really have to kind of mentally, have mental boundaries around what you take into your head so you can have the right disposition to write a book. So, like, no news, no bad news. I limit it as much as I can, which can be really embarrassing. Like, there was a period there where I wasn't entirely sure who the prime minister of our country was for a little while. Then my wife said, it's him.

I have to. Not a happy day.'s him i i i have to not a happy day i i tune it i have to tune out and it's and i'm sure that it's like that would appall a lot of people that but i i find it hard to do the gig to get in the headspace to be um uh because there's a silliness about them there's a sense of fun that I find hard to fake. Yeah. So I have to get into a space where I just feel good. And it's also, it's getting harder because they were written,

initially they were written for my boys when they were six and eight. It was really easy to write because I knew what would make them laugh. Yeah. Now they're 14 and 16. I have to time travel in my head and go, what would he have liked?

He would have liked that. Yeah. Oh, really? Yeah. So you still think that way? I do. It helps. Yeah. to time travel in my head and go what would he have liked he would like that yeah so oh really yeah you still think that way i do it helps yeah well now i'm playing a character that you created yes you are very well too well thank you buddy uh have you seen the movie with people i have once twice actually and it was pretty good it was pretty cool um they get the laughs it did yeah yeah good that was very, very satisfying. Yeah.

And there was a couple of kids, actually, and the last time I saw it in front of us, they were young. They were like a target age group. They were eight. And they kept throwing their arms in the air during the sequences like they were on a ride. Oh, really?

And that was really exciting. I loved seeing that. Did you like the amplification of your art? Oh, it's just... See, that is such a beautiful thing to experience. I mean, when the first time I saw the finished art move, I burst into tears because it's just... What I've been trying to do in my black and white scribbly drawings

is I've been approximating what I would like it to be, and that's my... Because the books are my version of making a movie, but just on a page, because I thought, how am I going to make a film? So I did that. What they've done is they've taken that and then blown it up into this 3D magical thing.

Yeah, I had no idea. When I first had meetings with them, I wasn't familiar with the books, and the snake characters seemed great, but I'm like, how are you going to make that move? Because they've got to answer questions like that. Yeah, they do. And it was interesting, the snake movement came up on one of the first meetings with them. They were a little nervous about it because there hadn't been a snake as your sort of central heroic character

ever really. There's maybe one or two examples where there's a prominently featured snake, but it's usually just the, they're just meant to look insidious and slithery. So we needed this guy to be sort of charming, you know, and they've accomplished that beautifully. That was great. Yeah.

Yeah. And how did, like, how does it unfold? Like, you know, where does it start with the movie negotiations? Like, I mean mean was that going on a long time it was did you have other offers yeah we did um i came it was so surreal because i you know i'd never been to america this was in 2016 yeah and again with all that love of movies i came across to hollywood and we knew people were interested and I had an agent yeah and I then we went in a single week we went to all the studios yeah I met the

heads of most of them yeah and it just the dream works just like Damon the producer just just had a feel for it just got it yeah got the tone and they they kept assuring me that they would preserve that tone that was the most important seems like a good guy yeah he's great yeah and i and i that's what it came down to for me i i figured and i i was weirdly arrogant about it too i knew i had something that they wanted and i knew it was the only i'd been looking for it my whole life so i was holding onto it really tight actually but you'd been looking like if this finally you're going to be a movie maker well i yeah i guess and i felt like if i don't

trust them yeah it's i'm not going to do it yeah i just hold on until i find someone who i do trust and the only people i met that week yeah with the dreams team but then that they've that's like other than Damon and then Pierre who directed it that like there was a number of um regime changes at DreamWorks during the development period which was really hair-raising but that the bad guys just kept surviving it they just kept really staying on the yeah it happened a couple of times and it was you know I guess it's it it speaks to the the you know that where that sort of confidence in it came from is i just felt like the idea was just how right i just kept saying why wouldn't they make this yeah you know and what how's it doing and the movie it i think

i i've been i've had my head in the sand a little bit. I think it's doing good. Um, but it's, it's all going to be about when it comes out here, here a little bit, you know, but I, I know like, and it's, it's like in Australia, I think it did really well,

but the school holidays actually don't start until today. Uh huh. So that's when we'll really see how it goes in Australia. really? Yeah. Um, and then in other places, I think it's,

I think it's doing good. I think it's, it's, it's been the, did they open in China and stuff? Not places i think it's i think it's doing good i think it's it's it's been the do they open in china and stuff not yet not yet i think it's the it's done the best it's had the best opening for an animation during the pandemic in most places i think yeah it's really cool um but yeah i i'm kind of ignoring all of that as much as i can until because it's staggered it's staggered over a month, which is kind of excruciating. So you can't get the whole picture until we're sort of at the other side. Yeah, I don't get a sense.

I don't know. No. I don't follow it. But it's, I don't know, you guys, that's been, because I've, it was really interesting. I was across everybody's work during the process because when the conversations about casting came up, I knew everybody's work pretty, most people's work in detail. Other than yours, really, you were surprised to me.

They said, what about Mark Rana? And I didn't know your name. And they sent me one of your stand-ups, the brain cancer. It could be nothing, that one. And just in 10 seconds in, I started writing an email, please, please cast him, please. So, you know, it's one of those things where it's just,

this cast is exactly who I want to play there, which is, you know, so many authors watch their work turned into trash. You know, it happens all the time. Train wreck adaptations are a weekly occurrence. Right. And there's nothing you can do about it. Nothing at all.

It's terrible. You just have to watch your thing die. So no matter how the movie does actually i love the movie so much and i love what you all did in it so much that i'm i'm you're good i'm kind of cool with with with whatever happens come on they're talking about a sequel yeah yeah there they are but i mean you know that's the thing i i can't let myself indulge the thought of it just in case. They've got to get on it if they're going to do it

because now that they've got everything, all the movements and stuff. Yeah. But how much of this, because I don't know the books specifically, how much of this is books, is from the book, the story? Do you get story credit? No, no.

Only it's... Created by. Based on books by yeah uh it is loosely based on the first four books with added soderbergh it added sort of oceans 11 oh right right right yeah yeah yeah um but a number of the sequences from the film the cat in the tree the you eating all the guinea pigs yeah that's they're all straight from the books. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, good. I gave your books. I told you I gave your books to Sean Marshall Catpower.

Melted my brain. Whose son loves them. Because I had the box and I'm like, I get this. I get the script. Do I need to read all the books or can I give this to somebody that's got kids? All my brother's kids are too old. And then I went to Florida and I met Sean for the first time. We had lunch. he had this kid and I said I think is the kids the right age I think I have the books or I sent him and he loved him that's great there you go that's good I mean that's that's that's that's

what's so weird now he's like you know I love chance music oh yeah and it's just like the knowing now because the books are so far, like it's 30 million copies now, I think. Oh, my God. And it's like you just don't know whose house these books are in now. Most. It's such a strange feeling. Yeah.

And it's a thrill, and it also just does my head in too sometimes. That you're putting good things into the kids brains i i like that idea i like that did it feel like weird though i mean did you like did you feel there was a responsibility to it i guess you got an editor but i mean yeah i look it this is the thing it's i wanted to do books because the whole idea to do the the other impulse that you drove the bad guys is some of the books the kids get sent home from sent home from school with yeah are so boring yeah that um i the initial impulse was i saw my youngest kid losing interest in ever wanting to learn to read he would bring this stuff home and go this just sucks can i just can i just play the Xbox, please? Right.

And the idea, the impulse came from, that's what changed everything, was the idea of, well, could you write a book that is as much fun for a kid as a video game? Yeah. Or a movie or a TV show. Yeah. And that was what drove the first installment.

And so the movie sort of captures that as well. It's got a pace to it. Yeah, that's right. It's exciting, right? Yeah. Now, are you a revered child's book writer now? Are you up there with some of the other ones? I don't know.

Do you go to special events? Have you got awards for writing children's books? No, I got awards early up, and then they got popular, and then the awards dried up. I can live with that. I can live with the awards drying up. None of the little gold stickers on the books? Yeah, look, that happened.

The gold stickers happened in Australia initially, but I kind of got reticent about it because I know that, I don't know, it just felt like somehow there's cases where that can make a book seem like less fun to a kid. And I always wanted books to, again, like the video game thing, wanting kids to associate books with fun. Yeah. Which seems really counterintuitive in this era, but that's what I wanted to do. So, I don't know. Do you like the music they picked for the movie?

Yeah. Right? It. Right. It's good. So good. So good. That opening, the opening sequence, the opening chase sequence is one of the best things ever in an animated film. I reckon.

Yeah. I think so. Exciting. So now you're going to go back to acting for a bit or? No. I got, they asked me during the production, so would you want to do a little cameo and it was it made me want to

I vomited in my own mouth it was just so such a terrible thought oh god yeah well it seems like you landed on your feet

done alright yeah yeah yeah it does yeah good talking to you man you good yeah

I'm good alright that was Aaron Blaby You good? Yeah, I'm good. All right. That was Aaron Blaby, the creator of the Bad Guys books and also a producer on the film that I'm in. I play Mr. Snake. It opens tomorrow, April 22nd. New York City, man. Had this Elko last night.

The full fucking ride. Borscht, pierogies, the beet horseradish salad some uh kasha with gravy oh man boomer lives monkey lafonda cat angels everywhere that's for sure angels in general no No music. Roading it. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode

where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. It's a night for the whole family. Be a part of Kids Night when the Toronto Rock take on the Colorado Mammoth at a special 5 p.m. start time on Saturday, March 9th

at First Ontario Centre in Hamilton. The first 5,000 fans in attendance will get a Dan Dawson bobblehead courtesy of Backley Construction. Punch your ticket to Kids Night on Saturday, March 9th at 5 p.m. in Rock City at torontorock.com.