WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1326 - Trombone Shorty

Episode Date: April 28, 2022

It's normal for everyone to call Troy Andrews by his stage name, Trombone Shorty, because he's been playing the trombone since he was a tiny, four-year-old boy. Troy and Marc talk about the musical culture of New Orleans, growing up in the Treme, touring with Lenny Kravitz right out of high school, becoming the frontman of his own band, making the trombone a featured instrument, creating a musical education academy, and recording his new album, Lifted, which is inspired by his mother. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the

fuck next what's happening i'm Maron. This is my podcast. I'm broadcasting from a room. I'm not at home. I'm not in my garage. I'm out in the world. I'm out in the Midwest. Am I in the Midwest? Is Madison, Wisconsin the Midwest? Is that the definition of Midwest? I believe so. How's it going with you? Let me promote this podcast, if I may. Today, I'm going to talk to Trombone Shorty. His name is Troy Andrews, but as you can tell by the stage name, he's a master trombone player and also plays trumpet, drums, organ, tuba. He's been playing in concerts at Jazz Fest in New Orleans since he was like four years old,

and he started touring with Lenny Kravitz right out of high school. He's been on The Simpsons and Sesame Street and is one of the highest profile ambassadors of New Orleans music. And he's got a new album out called Lifted and it's very good. I can't, it was weird listening to it because I remember it kind of struck a note in me, a chord in me, the horn chord.

Because I remember, it really is sort of a rock record, but I remember when I was a kid, there were big horn rock bands. Chicago, Ohio Players, Average White Band, Tower of Power. There were big horn bands that were, yeah, they were R&B to a degree or maybe soul. But it definitely crossed over into rock. But it reminded me that i had not heard in my in recent days the uh the horn section on on what's basically well it's a mix of stuff but it's a lot of it's rock rock horns baby but uh yeah i got to talk to uh to troy about uh music, that source, the well, the eternal well of music that is New Orleans.

It was exciting. There's a lot of stuff I didn't know. So that's going to happen. That's going to happen for you shortly. Tonight, I'm in Milwaukee at the Turner Hall Ballroom. Tomorrow, I'm in Chicago at the Vic Theater. And Saturday, I'm in Chicago at the Vic Theater and Saturday I'm in Minneapolis at the Pantages. Also, another thing, I'm most likely postponing, trying to postpone or shift my Dynasty typewriter dates because I've been offered a role, you know, a part on Reservation Dogs, which is a show that I think is brilliant and exciting and I'm thrilled to be part of it. I don't generally ever cancel stuff, but fortunately it was a hometown series of gigs

that can be, you can see me in LA almost any time, but I will try to reschedule those for you. In a couple of weeks, I'll be in Pittsburgh at the Carnegie of Homestead on May 12th, Cleveland, Ohio at the Mimi Ohio Theater on May 13th, Royal Oak, Michigan at the Music Theater May 14th, Washington, D.C. at the Kennedy Center on May 20th, Red Bank, New Jersey at the Count Basie Center on May 21st, and Philly at the Keswick Theater on May 22nd. There's some more dates coming in the future, but those seem to be enough. You can go to wtfpod.com slash tour for ticket links and other info. All right. Is that all good? Is everything all right? Now, if I could just stop worrying for a few minutes. I landed in Chicago.

Not a great drive, Chicago to Madison. Nothing that appealing about it, but I am happy to be here. Had lunch with my buddy ben sidren the jazz pianist and jazz author we talked about uh we talked about the stuff he's a bit older than me talked about mortality we talked about horn players we talked about uh steve miller who he was in a band with in college uh he corrected some things corrected is a nice word I would say that it just it came up kind of organically but he was like yeah that Steve Miller interview I'm like yeah he's like yeah maybe I'd tell you a couple things so that was nice you know what's nice is to know that resentment springs eternal you know if someone fucks you you're going to remember it that's

that's that's one thing I've learned from myself and talking to other people no matter how much peace of mind you have or no matter how much you've let go if somebody screws you a certain way uh it'll stick and it'll stick there for the lifetime and it's not it's not always right up front but you know it ain't you don't have to dig too deep for it people who have been divorced know about this people have been uh fucked over financially yeah it's one as my dad's mind uh sort of disintegrates i guarantee you the last thing to go is going to be some version of fuck that guy that that i i have to wonder how many people's last words are like you remember that dude that did that thing fuck him words are like you remember that dude that did that thing fuck him resentment springs eternal depending on what the injury is you know trauma i think if it happens young enough will sort of you'll mold your whole personality around trauma but when someone fucks you it's just it's right

there it's like uh it's like uh you know you know those those weird flames that that just never go out you see in the night at those whatever those factories are like why is that fire still on uh that is he's mad at somebody and it's never gonna go away because they're never gonna pay and there's nothing you can do about it but just watch it just watch it you can turn it up or you can turn it down but the flame is eternal fuck that guy i got one of those maybe two of them i think actually it's more there's nothing i can do about it here's the other problem i have i've just stopped the and this has happened before this is just some element of anxiety i don't know if you have it and i'm driving man i'm driving down the highway so i have time for this i have time to think about it i i'd like to think i'm i'm reworking uh i'm reworking stuff and i'm going way back i'm going

all i'm almost doing some version of of uh uh mobile emdr on myself where since I have time I've got the highway spread out in front of me I got the car and I've always thought that driving is meditative because you can what's interesting about is you some part of you stays grounded as you sort of go off into the life of you know I guess it's really not meditating because it's something it's processing you can process in the car you know if you turn the car off there's still some part of you has to drive the car so you're connected and there's something about that it's almost something like uh it's something like the emdr thing in my mind because with the emdr treatment you know you have these buzzers that you know kind of get you into a different place.

So they can go into some part of your mind. The motor part of your mind gets sort of distracted with the buzzers. But I think that the car serves that purpose. And I'm just making this up. So I'm going over past points in my life that I thought were horrendously embarrassing, painful, or terribly traumatic. That's sort of how I spend my time sometimes in the car, working through that stuff, and then kind of following the thought process and trying to figure out whether or not I still have sort of unprocessed feelings about those things.

And that's how I spend time in the car. And then whatever time that I don't, I'm not doing that, I kind of, you know, listen to music, that I'm not doing that, I kind of listen to music or I worry about things that haven't happened. So it's great. The car is just great to be like, all right, what am I going to do today? I'm going to, how about listen to some talking heads, process some very painful stuff from childhood, and then think about one of my cats dying while I'm not home. Great.

What a fun ride and then maybe we'll get some coffee so we can really sort of turn the heat up on that process fuck me jesus christ but i like it man once i get out once i converge on the point and uh i'm happy to say that i'm i'm a little lighter and my heart is a little lighter because on the road from Chicago to Madison, I processed a nice chunk of childhood trauma with my mobile version of EMDR. locked into the the engagement with the car i was free my mind to uh sort of stop and start process of making connections of feelings and getting my myself into the place of the trauma moving through it with the help of knowing that i'm grounded by driving the car and then uh and then sort of like feeling the feels and uh yeah and then i got here and i had lunch it was it was a lot of processing i worked up a i worked up a nice uh appetite had some had some sweet potato hash

with a cup of poached eggs and a biscuit and uh ate some of ben's potatoes as we talked about the weight of consciousness good morning i don't know when you're listening to this, but why don't we talk to Trombone Shorty? His new album, Lifted, is available tomorrow, April 29th, wherever you get your music, and those horns will lift you. Jesus Christ, I should listen to it now. Jazz helps, man. Music helps. It seriously helps. I don't know why, but I've listened to Talking Headsads Fear of Music almost daily for weeks. What is it about that record?

It's speaking to something of the time. Give it a listen. There's something relevant to it. Outside of life during wartime, which is the time. I don't know. I just can't stop. I know it's a great record, but out of nowhere, that's the one that I'm spinning constantly. Anyways, Trombone Shorty, brilliant musician, brilliant.

I mean, horns, man, that horns, that's where it's at. That'll lift you up. And this is me talking to him back in the garage. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer.

I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative.

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in Rock City at torontorRock.com. It's great to meet you, man. Great to meet you, too, Mark. It's interesting because do people call you Troy? Yeah, Troy, Shorty, Trombone. Shorty. Tromb, some guy by my dad.

I would just say, hey, Mr. Tromb. I would like Mr. what? Mr. Shorty? Tromb, some guy by my dad. I would just say, hey, Mr. Tromb. I would like Mr. what? Mr. Tromb? Tromb, yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's weird because when you were brought to my attention, I'd heard of you, but I didn't know the music. And then I, specifically, and then I thought,

like a trombone guy, well, I want to talk to a trombone guy. Right, right, right. Because I was into jazz, right? Right, right. And I just had this weird breakthrough breakthrough and this is usually how it works with me when i before i talk to somebody because i listen to a lot of bob i listen to hard bob okay okay i'm no scholar you know uh but you know i pick up what i can i have a lot of records yeah and uh and i started realizing after listening to your stuff and listening to specifically people who are who are honest to new orleans jazz yeah yeah yeah that what evolved out of that which is everything everything that's right but new orleans jazz as as a form is is inclusive inclusive that's right

right but once you get to bop it's sort of of like, what are they trying to do? Get rid of me? That's right. That's it, yeah. Because when you really think about jazz as a culture in the 50s, what it became, you know, in New York and L.A. or whatever, with that crew of bop guys, you know, you really had to be, you know, in the in crowd or have a mindset to take that stuff in. Yeah, you had to do that right and but with what you do and what you come from it's like everybody's welcome as clear from the first note from the first note that's right it's it's a new orleans we never forgot that music is dance music you know yeah it's a celebratory thing to us yeah like you say it's everything right we we play uh when i went to school in New Orleans,

the New Orleans Center for Creative Arts, they were teaching us the bop stuff and all that. But I didn't learn anything about New Orleans music there. But me coming from the neighborhood that I came from to where we got drums and tubas and beer bottles and stop signs and whatever we can jam on, it was very difficult for me to see when we started to play this other music in school

that no one were reacting. I was born into people dancing. Yeah. Well, that's an interesting thing because you had to kind of backload that stuff, right? That wasn't what you were listening to. No, no. You were listening to everything

that you were coming up from. I want to talk about the early stuff, but I do want to say before, I listened to the new record. I listened to the records but i mean am i wrong in thinking that you know this is the one where it really came together for you uh this record i try to do that for every one of them but i think i think you might you know i think we went in the studio with the mindset of let's let's play like we're on the stage but let's make sure it's tight right because like i felt that the

vision of the record and the consistency of it and the amount that you put the trombone forward i mean you do because that's what you do but in this one you're like it's time for my lead yeah yeah absolutely i was thinking more of uh you know how lenny kravitz would write a rock solo right that's what that's where my mind was because you can feel that like in the other records you're blending a lot of stuff you know there's a lot of different uh kind of styles going on but in this one it like it's there's a consistency there you go yeah right to the to the way you laid the record out and then like there's definitely a point where because you wonder about that with with a trombone in general so it feels like a support instrument yeah yeah

that's what it is some most of the time but in new orleans it still is a support instrument because you'll have someone like uh most trumpet players have a sidekick trombone player right okay yeah lewis armstrong yeah he had that he had a guy yeah yeah who was his guy and then uh tyreek glenn uh-huh he did some stuff with a guy trummy young uh-huh there's a bunch of trombone players, but normally out of that whole thing, the trombone is the side man. So it's almost like it keeps a bass, almost. It tailgates around and just play around a melody that

the trumpet player sings. Right, so the trumpet's like, beep, beep, beep, beep, and you're like, yeah, you're just tap dancing right around it and hitting at the melody every once in a while. So when you, tell me about that, because like again, I'm an appreciator of music, but I'm limited in what I know.

You know, what I know about New Orleans music, and like I know Zydeco a bit, I know Dr. John, I know The Meters, I know Alan Toussaint. Neville Brothers. Neville Brothers a bit, i you know i know the people professor long hair oh yeah you're not used you deep now yeah that stuff's great yeah yeah but uh but like i don't know about the the history of that of the neighborhood of treme and what you know what it means to grow up there you know like i i mean i can see it on tv or i can get a sense

but i have to assume that that community like it feels like not only is it tied as a community spiritually and just as a neighborhood, but that the music was everywhere all the time. Absolutely. That's true? That's very true. I grew up there, and I remember being a kid walking to elementary school. Right. I went to school in the French Quarter, which there's one block that separates the French Quarter and the Treme. That's Rampart Street.

So the French Quarter is only about three, four blocks from the Treme where I lived. And I remember going to walk into school and there would be a funeral, second line jazz procession. That's what it's called? Yeah, yeah. Second line? Second line, yeah, yeah. Where people are dancing in the streets and we sit about it and i'll be going there and i'll see that and then when i'm

coming back home there's someone celebrating the birthday right and then the backyard plan yeah and then my family we had a rebirth brass band and the dirty rebirth rebirth brass i remember the dirty dozen brass dirty dozen so they come afterzen. Okay. And they were very influenced by them. And it was always music. And so my band, my cousins and family members, we'll get home, do our homework. Yeah. And then we'll start practicing and bothering the older musicians. And then we...

What was that? So, like, it was just an assumed thing that you were going to be a musician? I mean, could be, you know, like, it was just, that's what happens? That's what, that's what i mean most people uh there's a lot of musical families so i never had a choice but i think when i was born they gave me some drumsticks or something like that so how far back does the music go in your family i know there's a popular accent that i don't know but who are they like what's a well it all started with my grandfather who's

jesse hill okay and he made a song back in the 60s ooh poopa doo yeah and he was uh it was it was a big song back in those days and when you could write a song and call it that yeah call it that ooh poopa doo yeah and it was i guess it was a big song during those times i think uh tina turner covered it a few other people covered it. But that was before me, of course. Yeah. And then on his side. Did you know him? Yeah, yeah, I knew him, but he was much older by the time.

He wasn't really active by the time I was starting to go. But he would come over to rehearsal and try to tell us some things when we were trying to get it together. So that was a pop song. That was a pop song. Yeah, it was a big song. Right. By the time he's going at it, they're taking it.

That's the interesting thing about New Orleans and that whole world is that all American music, most of it, comes from there. Yeah. And if it doesn't, it eventually mixes with that. That's right. And it mixes with country, becomes something. That's right. That's right.

So at that point, he must have been pretty close to the source and just figured out how to make the groove into a pop song. Like Fats Domino. Like Fats Domino, yeah. My grandmother's brother was Walter Nelson. He was Fats Domino guitars. Oh, really? Yeah.

But that was before my time. I know, but did you grow up with the records? I grew up with the records, yeah. Still today, I still listen to them, and they always say, oh, you got to listen to this particular song, and this and that. And so the music lives in the whole family, and we listen. We grew up on Ray Charles, my grandmother loved that, and Fats Domino. Of course, Dr. John was like an uncle to me. You knew him? I knew him very well. I grew up underneath him, and he would come over by my grandmother's house and hang out and

eat gumbo and red beans, and I would play with him on the road, do some things. Yeah, he was like a real family member to us. John, Mac Rebene. Mac Rebene. Yep, Mac Rebene. Yeah, because he's another guy where I sort of locked in and I got all the old records. I had Dr. John's Gumbo, which is a relatively hard record to find,

which is weird because it's a later record. That's right. It's him covering a lot of stuff like he does iko iko he does i think tipatina and big chief and yeah yeah and it's a great record yeah but those old ones where he's sort of like taking it out there right with night tripper and uh the first three records yep um i can't remember the names of them where where he's, because you listen to it, and he's like, he's fusing that time, you know, drugs, the 60s, whatever trip he's on, and he's like elevating that New Orleans thing

into a psychedelic shit show. Yeah. That's right. That's a good way to put it, yeah. And, but it is still fundamentally uh new orleans music right yeah yeah you hit a dearth underneath it you got the big dirt and the street sounds and the everything you do that on the new record a lot there's always guys talking there's to make sure that every song it's like what are we doing this what do we you know yeah

yeah that's right you know that's just what we do that's a part of it? That's a part of it. Because if you think about the second line culture where I'm from, where I grew up in, there's thousands of people around you speaking. The band is in the middle. But everybody's dancing and having conversations about where they're going next or what song they want to hear the band play. And we just hear a lot of chatter while we're playing in the streets. So I wanted to capture some of that on this record and get that atmosphere going. And what does second line mean exactly?

Where does that come from? Well, at first it comes from the funeral procession. Right. And then. Oh, the sad one. Yeah, the sad one. Okay. There'll be the band and the coffin.

And then the second line is normally people that join in from the neighborhood. Oh, okay. I see. I see. Okay. band and the coffin and then the second line is normally people that that join in from the neighborhood okay i see i see okay so the because the first time i saw the new orleans funeral procession was in a james bond movie oh yeah yeah like i think it was diamonds and i can't remember which one it was i saw that remember they killed the guy in the street and they they wrote the coffin on and they pulled him up and i think that was i think that was either the uh the olympia brads band that was in there oh really i think so i think it was was it diamonds are forever it was a roger moore james bond and it had to do and i know like there was a lot of like you know kind of probably slightly racist voodoo stuff in there yeah that happens too yeah but uh but i i that's the first time I put together that there was this culture that was celebratory.

Right, celebratory. Well, I mean, even in, I think in some of the language that you've been quoted in talking about your mother's passing, which I'm sorry. Yeah. You said she, a transition, right? Is that what you said? It's a transition. She's gone to a better place. But it's always a celebratory transition in New Orleans.

Like it's very, of course, people will cry in New Orleans. Right. But then we turn it around really quickly. Yeah. So we might start with a dirge. Right. And you'll see everybody falling out because that's emotional. Right.

And then the drum kick off. And now it's a big celebratory second line thing. Sending them off. We're sending them off we're sending them off yeah that's what we do and we got a part where we uh doing a procession the carriage with the with the coffin and it will will separate half of the band some of them on this side some of them on the left some of them right and we call that cutting them loose right that's when you send and that's the final thing.

Yeah. But the second line is dealing with the funeral, but it's a different thing. So we have the social aid and pleasure clubs that parade every Sunday. Uh-huh. And that's a different thing. That's not a sad thing.

It's just New Orleans culture. Right. Yeah. But it does like, but your first memories of it are around funerals, I guess. Or no. Both of them. Right.

Most of it happened in my house and in my backyard with my brother James Andrews and his band. What's he play? He plays the trumpet. Yeah. You can play trumpet too, right? Yeah, I play trumpet too. On my show, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, both of them. Trombone and trumpet. But so that, it happened in my house and then I think I got introduced to the funerals just going out there yeah. Yeah. Yeah, both of them, trombone and trumpet. But so it happened in my house, and then I think I got introduced to the funeral, just going out there playing inside of him. I guess the connection I'm trying to make is that it just seems like this is the way emotions are expressed, relieved or entertained. Like the language of music is directly related to life in a very immediate sense. Absolutely. It's very spiritual. Yeah.

You know, when you go in a trim air in New Orleans and you see people, we can be having a second line parade down the street, and you'll see somebody come out of their house. They were just fixing supper or something, and they'll come out banging on the top of their pot and just start to dance and leave the house and forget. Yeah. And just join in.

That's how emotional it is. And that's real life. That's real life. That's every day. I mean, because, like, you know, you think, like, I think I saw that in a movie, but you're telling me that's real life. That's real life. That's what I see. And that's what I was a part of.

It's a community thing. You're not putting on a show for anybody. No, we're not putting on a show. You know, some people may hire the band to play for their birthday party. Sure, sure. But I mean, generally speaking. Yeah, no, it's just for the community. And we go out there and we play. You know, if some cameras are there, cool.

If not, we still do what we do. Right, right. But it's not a tourist attraction. No, no, no. This is pre-existed all that. That's right. Pre-existed all that. We do it every day.

I kind of feel like, you know, like after a certain point, like you think of the French Quarter and you think, I've only been there a few times. You know, and I got the powdered donut and the coffee. The beignet, yeah. You're making me hungry now. But, you know, there is an intrinsic tourist culture to that city at this point, right?

But it seems like when I was there, you cannot, nothing's going to turn out New Orleans. You know, like, there's plenty of tourists there, but you're still sort of like, we're just visiting. Right, right, right, right. And you don't feel like it's like being, they're putting, the city's putting on a show. That city has got some vibe to it where you're like, if you stay there too long, you're just going to be absorbed by it. That's what happens, too. I know, I see people. Yeah, they come down and they end up moving there for some reason.

It's magical. It is magical. I always tell the people, go hang out in the French Quarter. Get that out the way. Even though it's a tourist attraction, it's still real. We're just there. So I say, go hang out in the French Quarter and call me after that. Then we'll get into the other stuff.

Because I know that there's a balance there, too, to that energy. That there is a magic to it. But there is a darkness to it. There's a weight to that place. Absolutely. I don't know what it is. But I imagine that growing up there and dealing with music, that you're pushing back some dark spirits that exist there. Because I'm sensitive to that shit.

Oh, yeah? Well, you know it. If you're sensitive to it, then you can feel it. Yeah, I don't know what it is do you i don't know i think it's you know what i'm talking about i know what you mean yeah you know the spirits are very much alive there yeah it's something maybe it's because they keep all the dead people up over the ground yeah yeah necropolis they call it necropolis yeah they're just there they're they're not you know you know sometimes i'll be with some people and we'll go by the cemetery. Yeah.

And they'll naturally start to be quiet as if we're going to disturb the dead. Yeah. It's a weird feeling, bro. Yeah. But it's incredible. Yeah. All right. So you're a kid and you got all this around you.

And, you know, obviously you're a gifted guy. I mean, you're the guy. You're the new trombone guy. You're carrying the horn for everybody now. But how does that reveal itself? I mean, because there's footage and pictures and, you know, recordings of you with that trombone, and, you know, you're like a little kid. Yeah, yeah, four years old.

And it's bigger than you are, and you're just a little kid. Yeah, yeah, four years old. And it's bigger than you are and you're just laying it out. Why that instrument and when did you realize or whoever realized around you that this guy's special with this thing? Well, this goes back to my, I was telling you about having a sidekick. Right.

So my brother's a trumpet player. So I guess in the house we didn't need any more trumpet players. Yeah. So they put a trombone there and I stuck with with it they just give it to you who gives it to you who says like it's either my mom or my brother but it was around the house so because they are my cousins and my brother playing music the instruments will stay at my house right and it would be like my playpen right i will crawl inside tubas and drums and stuff but i think

once my brother took over and wanted me to play music and stay on his side, the trombone was the thing that he kept me with. And I think that's just his influence of the city. Trumpet players are always the kings, you know, leading the band. So he put me on the trombone. And maybe he needed a trombone player in the band at that time. Well, it sounds like it. I mean, that's the traditional place for the trombone.

Right, right, right on the side of the trumpet player. And does he have a recording career, your brother? Yes, yes, he has a few records out. What styles he actually... Some of his best music he did, to me, is when Alan Toussaint produced it. So he has a record called Satchmo of the Ghetto that he did back in the 90s in his future. Toussaint, that's how you say it? Alan Toussaint produced it. Yeah. So he has a record called Satchmo of the Ghetto that he did back in the 90s

and it's... Toussaint, that's how you say it? Alan Toussaint. Yeah, yeah, Toussaint. Not Toussaint. No, no, Toussaint. Yep.

And it's featuring, actually on that record he has Alan Toussaint playing piano and Dr. John on the organ. Oh, wow. The whole record. And what's your brother's name?

James Andrews. Oh, man. And he was a part of the Newt Burge Brad brand, too. He still around? Yeah, he's still around. Oh, all right. Yeah, he's only like 52. Uh-huh.

He's still around. And he plays just all the time? He plays in the city a lot, and he comes to jam with me whenever we can in the city. It seems like the people that are in that community, like you just say your brother and then Alan Toussaint and Dr. John, they're like, all right, let's do it. Yeah. Right? It's that easy? like, all right, let's do it. Yeah. Right? It's that easy?

It's that easy. Let's do it. Let's just go in the studio and let's record. Right. So you're with your brother. You're five? Four. Four.

He's how much older than you? I think maybe 16 years or something like that. He's 16 years older than you? I think so. How old are you? I'm 36. Okay. Yeah.

So he's a lot older than you. Yeah, yeah. So you're playing trombone, and he's playing trumpet, and he's like 20 when you're four. Right, right, right. So was there a novelty approach to it, too? Like in the sense of sort of like, look at this kid. No, because I was up there. I mean, I don't think I could really play that well at that age.

Because, you know, like Derek Trucks. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like he was one of those kids they put out there. He's like 11. He's like doing all the Dwayne Allen. But he had to reckon with the fact that if he's going to stay in it at a certain point, he's like, well, I can't be this novelty act. Right, right.

This kid who's got this one trick. Right, right. So he had to figure out how to be a genius on his own. He's incredible. We did a few shows together. Oh, did you? Yeah. But my brother allowed me and taught me on the spot.

Okay. So he knew trombone or he just knew horn or he just knew music? He just knows the trumpet. All right. So I learned by ear first. Right. So he would play in my ear and i would play it back to him but i as as all that all of all of those years of that uh i just kept getting stronger and stronger and better and gaining more yeah gaining more knowledge

right so just from playing yeah so i didn't have listening yeah so i didn't have a trick at first right so it's just me trying to learn to play. Figure it out. And then it just developed over time. But he couldn't tell me what to play on the trombone. He could just play it for me on the trumpet, and I would have to figure it out. And you figured out how to do all this on your own? Yeah, I figured it out by standing next to him.

But there was no trombone player that just said, you got to do this with your hand? I mean, they had a few of them that I stood next to, and there's pictures of me looking up at them trying to figure it out. But my arms were so small, I couldn't go all the way out, extend it on the horn. So I stood next to a lot of great trombone players on the street, and I just listened to them. Do you have guys that you like? I don't know a lot of them.

I think I've heard some J.J. Johnson stuff. I think he used to play with bop guys, right? Yeah. There were a couple of bop guys, right? A couple of people, yeah. I listened to them when I was in school. Yeah. It hit me to them.

That's so funny. You spend your whole life playing music, and then you go to this school, and they're like, here are the guys that took what you're doing out this way, other direction. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But who were the guys that you grew up liking trombone guys i like uh fred wesley okay you know who that is no what's he about he's the one that uh was behind a lot of james brown music with maceo parker okay yeah yeah yeah yeah but he was like the first trombonist that uh was into putting it on funk music. Right. Okay.

Yeah, with that whole thing. And how old were you when you started getting hip to that? When you knew those guys? Were you listening to it? Were you like, I got to learn some shit from this record? Well, I always heard James Brown in the house. Right. Because my family and everyone listened to it and loved his music.

But I wasn't listening to the horns at that moment. I was just checking out James Brown and everything that the sound was coming. That's a good point. Yeah, yeah. And so as I got older and my ears started to grow a bit more, I started to focus on that. And then I met him and talked to him and we recorded and done some things together. And he's a nice person. Yeah?

Yeah, Fred Wesley. Well, it's interesting because it seemed like, as I was thinking about talking to you, that there is a difference between what evolved out of... R&B horn sections were punctuation, right? Yeah. And then it somehow evolved into a more elaborate lyrical presence in music as it became more know more funky and more uh you know almost aggressive yeah you know that you know the there and i've forgotten you know after while i was listening to you i'm like i'm 58 i grew up with some of the something like this what is it and then you realize you know through the 70s there was like a bunch of really heavy horn bands. Yeah, yeah. Right? Tower Power, Earth, Wind & Fire, Chicago. Chicago, that's right.

Ohio Players. Ohio Players. I mean, like the history, the legacy that you're coming from in terms of bringing this stuff together, it's there. Yeah, it's there. Right? Because I started to realize like there's a familiarity to this. Right, right.

Which is good. Yeah, absolutely. Like you haven't heard it in a while. Right, right. Absolutely. I can't remember like, you know, listening to this. Right, right. Which is good. Yeah, absolutely. Like, you haven't heard it in a while. Right, right, absolutely. I can't remember, like, you know, listening to this record, it was reminiscent, but I can't remember the last time I heard, like, a power horn band like that.

Well, that's true. I didn't think about that, yeah. Well, it's natural for me. I always hear it, especially in New Orleans, but... But to put it all together with that stuff, with the guitar and all that. Yeah, yeah. But going back, when do people start taking notice?

How old were you when I watched that picture, that video of you playing with Wynton? When did he take notice of you? How did it evolve that you became prominent? You know, being in New Orleans, Wynton would come back and see us playing, and then he'll take us all over the street or wherever we may be. Wynton was just walking around the streets with his brother and his dad? Well, I mean, it was always some type of musical thing that was going on. And he would be in town for that.

So he was like a big supporter. Yeah, he's a supporter. Of the community in general. Of music, yeah. So when he finds you, what does he say to you? Well, we were playing New Orleans jazz New Orleans music

so how old were you I was probably around five or six that we would that I met him what was the outfit you were with

with the band what band were you with I was probably with my brother's band what were they called it was an all star brass band and we were just playing

street funk brass but it's part of the New Orleans thing. Yeah. And so I've been knowing him since that time. Yeah. But we're a little bit more loose. Yeah.

But he brought you out there. What was that? Where was that done? Where is that thing taking place? That was somewhere in Europe. Yeah. I think it was probably in Jazz of Vienne in France. Did he take you out there with him?

No, I was with my brother's band. He knew that we were there, and he invited me to play the last song. So when you said, how old were you then? I don't know when that video was. I was probably like 13 or 14. So when that happens, by that time, you can riff? You can improvise? Yeah, yeah.

I mean, we grew up improvising in New Orleans. And when I got to the NOCA school, it was very strange for me that people were playing other people's solo. Because that's not what we did in Treme. Yeah. Like, when you hear people like my brother, Kermit Ruffins, they're coming down the street five blocks away. We can tell which band it was by the trumpet player sound. Right. Really?

Yeah. Like if Rebirth was coming up the street, we knew the language that Kermit Ruffins was playing on top of all that. And we could be like, oh, it's Rebirth. Yeah. And when they come up the street, that's exactly who it is. So we learn to improvise first. Because that's how you get your own thing, your own point of view, your own sound. Yeah, you get your own sound and you're developing and speaking.

I speak with my New Orleans accent and you speak how you speak. So that's how we think. If I keep talking to you, I'll be speaking in the New Orleans accent by the end of the thing. Yeah, I'll have you together. I'm just one of those people. Yeah, yeah, we'll get you together. Well, that's interesting because that approach gives you a voice. Yeah.

So, well, that's interesting because that approach gives you a voice. Yeah. Whereas, like, because I always notice that in music in general, that there are people that can copy other people brilliantly. Yeah. But, you know, they're kind of lost when it comes to expressing themselves. Yeah, they don't know who they are. Yeah. It's all stuff.

Now, don't get me wrong. Technique. Technique, yeah, technique. Right. And, you know, but don't get me wrong. Iique. Technique, yeah. Technique. Right. But don't get me wrong. I like to listen to a lot of music. And once you listen to something like you just said, you'll be speaking like all in that accent. That happens to me in music.

Like whatever I'm listening to, without trying to copy it, it'll be in my- You'll absorb it. Absorb it, yeah. Like a sponge. And it'll naturally come out some type of way. But I'm not copying anyone. I just learned enough lyrics. It just touched me that much to where it's just coming out.

Well, also, you grew up at a time. I mean, it wasn't like you were isolated. I mean, you're getting all the music coming in from when you're growing up. Because this record, the new record lifted is i mean it's as much a rock record as it is anything else absolutely and and and i have to assume that you know despite the roots and this sort of because i think everyone has a perception a kind of like you know almost this romantic idea of of that new orleans music just stays the way it is forever but you know there's music going on all the time that's right and we're influenced by everyone right and i think you pull it in on this record for sure i mean you got gary

clark on there and you got your regular guitar player i guess right yeah and uh but the beautiful thing about new orleans that we have this new orleans music and then we have sub genres of new orleans music so uh i mean we have like new or funk, which is the Neville Brothers and the Meters. And then you have New Orleans rock, which is like Cowboy Mouth and Better Than Ezra. Oh, right. Okay, yeah. Then we have the street brass. Yeah.

And you have sub-genres of that. You have traditional type of brass. Then you have people that's more street funk, which is Rebirth and Dirty Dozen. Right. Then you have like Preservation Hall. So we all fit under this New Orleansleans umbrella but we all speak a different language uh and it all comes together so even in the city not musically speaking we have people that's in certain neighborhoods that when even when i go to visit my family they have their own lingo their own right language that i don't understand what's the musical language no No, no, just regular,

in general. So some people are very influenced by their neighborhood. Yeah, for sure. And then we all meet up some type of way, and we have this common thing underneath that's New Orleans, but we all speak a little differently to where I go to my cousins in the Ninth Ward, and they're saying something that I'm like, I don't know what y'all talking about. And so they're influenced because they created that. They all hear each other speak. And some people stay in that neighborhood for 30 years, and they don't go anywhere.

That's a little weird, right? Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's weird, but that's what happens. And so I go down there, and I'm listening to them, and they even play the tambourine differently. Right. You might have some people uptown that play with their fingertips. And when you come downtown, they play with their knuckles.

Yeah. And the Mardi Gras Indians, it's just small little things like that. Yeah, yeah. That's big. Right. It makes a big difference to the sound. Yeah, to the sound. I noticed that with washboard players.

Yeah, washboard players. That's right. Where you're like, everyone's got their own style in that washboard. That's right. Everybody got their own style, you washboard that's right everybody got their own styles you know some people play with spoons some people have the gloves with the metal yeah yeah so it's different things but it's all one city so at some point we influence one another so some things that i learned in the night while that i didn't know i'll find a way naturally to bring that to the trim but you're not necessarily but you're not necessarily conscious

of it right it's just an influence you just pick it up just pick it to the trim. But you're not necessarily, but you're not necessarily conscious of it. Right. It's just an influence. You just pick it up. Just pick it up. And then one day you're like, no shit. Right.

I'm doing that thing that I got. Yeah. That's right. So we'll references like, Oh man, let's, let's, let's play this beat.

Like, uh, when we doing something like play it like a hot eight band. Right. They're from uptown. Yeah. Yeah. So they got the different,

you know, you, once you come down there and you see it, you'll be able to tell. Yeah. And you're there for a while. You'd be like, Oh, that's an uptown yeah yeah so they got the different you know you once you come down there and you see it you'll be able to tell and you're there for a while you'll be like oh that's uptown yeah and then i'm from downtown and you can see like if i show you some videos you could be like oh they definitely by people's second line which is a dance in new orleans but it's all improvised right you know but it's all the second line but it's been but it's been going on long enough that there's style to their. There's style to it. Right, right. So we could be like,

oh, this guy is from uptown and then you could see how smooth the downtown was. And you could just tell by the way they approached their dancing. Right, right. And we're all five minutes

away from each other. That's wild. But the influence of the neighborhood is so impactful. Well, isn't that something to do with the, like, there isn't

a representation with, like, again, I don't know the history of the costumes, of M of mardi gras costumes but isn't there a history of slight differences around those costumes that have been going on for generations yeah yeah well like the chiefs yeah the chiefs and the story they always have a story that they're a needle and threading on there okay yeah yeah the mardi gras indians are just, it started as a tribute to Native Americans that helped slaves. So this is the way that the black people in New Orleans paid tribute to that culture. And then it became what it is today.

But yeah, there's always difference. And they get in the street and do real battles. Back in the day, it was very, very dangerous. Really? Yeah, they might not make it home. But this was a celebration? Well, this is Mardi Gras, but it is a celebration, but like you say, there's some darkness to it.

But it's a beautiful thing with that culture. So you'll have people from downtown, the Mardi Gras tribes, and you have people from uptown, and they'll walk, and they'll go down the street, and some type of way they meet up, and then there's a real battle. That's interesting. But there's Indians singing, and they're telling stories. They might say something about this guy's suit is raggedy, or the other guy says something. But back in the day, you'd have real hatchets come out, and people, you know.

That's an aggressive game of the dozens. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's all right now but it's all right now it's all right now well no right well but i think the point i was trying to play at is that there is sort of a a cultural tribalization around like the music like everyone like that's passed on through through traditions in these communities and then even though it's five minutes away it's like a whole different language of music too exactly that's what i was telling you right and in this record it seems like you know you can

really feel that you're pulling in at least from you know from rock funk you know straight up uh new orleans jazz and and you know other play you know hip-hop r&b like it's all like i listen to all the records but this one i'm like i can see it all you can see it yeah and also i think it's great because you just step up the trombones lead in this thing whereas before you were i felt more like you were conducting yeah yeah yeah absolutely is that is that true yeah yeah you got it okay yeah yeah you're on it so how do you evolve out of your brother's band do Now, you guys okay? You and your brother?

I think we okay. He's not jealous? No, no. You know, he'll just come on stage. I'll just hit his trumpet playing. Yeah. Like uninvited sometimes, but he's a big brother. He'll come on stage and start playing.

Really? At a gig? Yeah. I'll just look to the side, and he's walking out, and now we have to do like a little fake battle fake battle okay no but no he's good he's uh he's a wonderful person and i have to give him a lot of uh a lot of respect and love because without him i don't think i would be here of course yeah so who was the first uh you know major star that kind of used you brought you on stage well to me it was probably the neville brothers aaron neville yeah and then from there well actually uh when i was four i was

bought on stage by bro diddly yeah yeah yeah that's it that's it yeah i was four i was so small i don't know what i was doing but. And then I played with a few different people. Did you talk to Bo? I don't know. You don't remember? I don't remember. I was like four. I think I was a little nervous or scared because they crowd surfed me to the stage.

I'm like this little kid. With the horn? With the horn. My mom was like, hey. And they put me on stage with him him and there's a picture of that but uh when i was 18 or 19 i graduated high school and i joined lenny kravitz band for a few years now was this like when you talk about the education you were getting around uh jazz when did that happen was that in high school no so there was these uh there's this educator, Kid Jordan. He's an educator.

He's taught a lot of musicians. So at the time that I was playing with my brother's band, Kid Jordan found me, and they had me in summer programs my whole life. When you were starting at like five or six? Probably around eight or nine. Okay. During that time, I started to go to the programs with him and go to, he was teaching at Suno as a Southern University of New Orleans.

I would go there every Thursday and play with like all ages, college students. And so I was taking lessons with him. And then there was a guy, Clyde Kerr and Kent Jordan, who taught me at the New Orleans Center for Creative Arts. Those guys are the most prominent people in my education. Interesting. So you come up with all this sort of natural talent and street talent from family and watching. Yep.

And then these guys are like, we got to, this guy's got it. Let's teach him what's up. That's right. So they wasn't concerned. They weren't concerned with me playing. They wanted me to understand what I was doing to be able to speak the language and get in the books book and read music and read music so that's where you learned all that all that with them yeah and how did you take to that i mean where did you fight it or were

you like ready because like it seems like learning to read music when you know how to play music be like what do i do that for no no no i mean i was so young that i was and i'm always excited to learn new things. Yeah, yeah. So that's what kept me going. Like whenever I learned something and I was able to go back to the Treme neighborhood and play it in front of my friends, I'd use it in that type of setting. Integrate it in. Integrate it, and I was able to do it.

It made me even more excited. I think you just, in a very kind of, i think a diplomatic way uh define showing off well to my friends so they will play because we we all battle each other so whenever i learn something that's how we got my cousins so that's how it goes you just you go at each other we go at each other all the time you know and try to outriff each other try to outriff each other you know some things that we play like uh some of my cousin and I, he played the trumpet. He could play very high. Yeah.

And then I got to a level to where I was able to play very high. So we'd find ways to try to play melodies very high on a trumpet. But we all in the same band, but we riff. You know, like basketball players. Sure. If you go learn a new move or something, you want to go show it off. Right. So when I was learning stuff, because they didn't go to noca with me so they stayed in the street

and natural so you came in and you came and showed them and you showed off but you also gave them a gift that's it whenever i learned something yeah i would go play it and when while we're battling in the backyard or whatever i would play it and be like, check this out. And then I would break it down to them. Right. And show it to them and then they'd play something. So that's why I was always excited to learn something because some of my friends didn't take the journey with me to go learn music. So I was able to bring it back to them. And make it understandable.

And make it understandable. And now by the end of it, whenever they practice, all of us are getting better. Right. And I'm able to bring that knowledge that I'm getting over here. Yeah. To them. That's great. But I like how it comes out in both teaching, but also in battles. Yeah, it's battles. And also. But healthy competition. Yeah. Healthy competition. And we still do that. You know, we go in the street of our take you in the second line in New Orleans. There's a 10 piece band, another 10 piece band, even you in the second line in New Orleans, there's a 10-piece band, another 10-piece band. Even though we're all playing the same gig, there's divisions.

So we have the first division and the second division. And the second division is normally the most popular headlining band. And at the end, maybe, so there's this thing. So we parade for four hours. I don't do it anymore. It's been a long time. So we parade for four hours and it's like these 10 minute breaks where people get food and stuff but what'll happen when the band's

supposed to take a break we take that moment to line up and face off yeah and so you got thousands of people that's with you and thousands of people with the other band and we we going at it sometimes at the same time how many members in the band? It could be from eight to 10, 12 people. How does that break down a brass band like that, a classic one? So we got probably two trombone players, maybe three trumpets at most, no more than three.

Yeah. A sax player, and you got snare drum, bass, sousaphone, we call it a tuba. Yeah. But now they're starting to have like two tubas on each side to get more power yeah you know so but we'll we'll face off it's so fun you know and we all have we all friends so after that we'll be like yeah y'all got us on that first so that's where

that tuba it's funny so that's where that tuba comes from it kind of like because i mean you know the roots got a tuba yeah yeah yeah yeah and that's a new orleans that's a new orleans thing we put a tuba on anything you know you see a washboard player he got a tuba player you know well i wonder where does that come from the germans brought those things over i think yeah yeah the european instruments right because like you know all those horns you know uh in the in the german and like the accordion and stuff you know it's so funny because you know when the germans, and like the accordion and stuff, you know, it's so funny because, you know, when the Germans came, I don't know how they came or why they came.

I think it was, but I know it was in Texas and it must have been New Orleans. But what the Mexicans did with it versus what the people in New Orleans did with what the black people did, it's totally different things. Totally different things. Because like, for some reason, the Mexicans gravitated to the polka.

Right, right, that's right. But in New Orleans, it became something else. I don't know how that happened. Yeah. It must have been more primitive melodies. Right. You know. Right.

Right? Yeah, that vibe right there. Yeah, that's it. That's what we were feeling. Right. And that's where the swing comes from. While the Mexicans are. Right.

Yeah, that type of thing. Wow. But it's all... That's regional. That's what I would... That goes back... It goes back to that... The neighborhood. Yeah, for sure. And how it integrates with whatever the dominant music is. That's right. That's right. So, alright, so you do all this... You learn about this stuff.

Now, do you feel proficient? I guess... Because it seems like the traditional New Orleans horn band thing, it's got a 1-4-5 trip, right? It's a blues trip. Right, right. Mostly. Yeah, mostly, right? With a couple added kind of ragtime-y.

I don't know what you'd call it. Well, it's not. I mean, it's in there, but that's very old now. Right. Now the music is influenced by modern hip-hop and R&B. So there's a lot more changes to that. But that type of thing is what we hear in the French Quarter. Right.

More touristy. Right. That type of one, four, five thing. But that's sort of on the on the basis of that rock one that one what's that one that uh that power rock one on the record that's almost got like a whipping post riff to it i stand in here yeah you know that like that's straight up rock blues trip yeah yeah and uh uh and that's uh you used Gary? Gary Clark. Yeah, Gary Clark. Yeah, I've talked to him.

He's wonderful. Yeah. Yeah, an incredible person and an amazing musician. Sweet guy, right? Yeah, sweet guy. He's a good guitar player. Yeah. But where's that going with this?

So, oh, I know. So, like, when you're learning about this other kind of jazz, now can you hold your own in a bop outfit? I can go up there, yeah. Yeah? I mean, that's what they taught me at the school. Yeah. What's the primary difference?

I mean, you know, like in New Orleans, like we were saying, you hear more Louis Armstrong is more dancing. Sure. It's more for the people. Yeah. And then when you go to play the other stuff, you're really playing for the next musician next to you. And they're barely listening. Right. Well, they're listening, but the crowd might not be listening.

But it's just so funny when you see those guys, the horn players in the bop outfits. Yeah. Because, like, you know, like, if Shorter's going into sax, you know, Miles is just smoking a cigarette. You know what I mean? Like, it's like, just waiting. Yeah, yeah. There's no trying to perform.

No one's dancing. Nobody. We're just, we're going to wait. We're just waiting for you to finish your expression. Exactly. But I learned that's what they taught us at that school. You know, a lot of people went to the school. Harry Connick, Brian from the Marcellus family.

Actually, Ellis Marcellus, may he rest in peace. He taught there before my time. Terrence Blanchard, John Baptiste. Everybody goes through that and they teach us that. So we can get up there and do that if that's what we want. But when I was there, I didn't, coming from where I come from, I was excited to learn the language. Right. But you didn't feel it.

I didn't feel it, but I learned it because I'm always a student and I love learning. Sure. So if we had to do that, we can get up there and do it. So when you go out with Lenny, how does that happen? And what do you, is that where, I mean, how does he decide to use a trombone? Well, you know, he comes from that 70s thing that we were talking about with 25. Okay, so that's where it goes. Okay, yeah, right.

He had horn players before me. Okay. I think I may have been the first trombone player in his band, but he always had a sax and a trumpet. Right, okay. But by me playing boat, he was like, oh, we got to- I'm trying to remember the songs with the horns. Yeah, we got Mama Said. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay, that makes sense. It ain't over till it's over. Right, right. So he does that, but also on the songs that don't have it, he allowed us to make some arrangements and make our own parts on it. But during that time with him, I knew that I would continue to be a musician, but I didn't know. I was already discovering rock

and playing with people in New Orleans that was playing that type of music. But while I was at Noga, I was listening to like Cash Money records and No Limit records and Nine Inch Nails and Red Hot Chili Peppers. So I was always interested in that. So you were trying to figure out how, like, I guess what the real question becomes,

it's like, if I don't want the life of a sideman, you know, what am I going to do? Well, I was really trying to copy off of my brother, who was a front man. Yeah. But he, who is a front man. But I wanted to, because I had so many other influences of what I was hearing and what I was a part of, I just needed to figure out a way to all put it together in this gumbo. Right. But you decided to sing at some point. Yeah.

I mean, because you can sing and you do sing. point yeah i mean because you can sing and you do sing i couldn't sing at first my band and my brother and and a great legendary new orleans musician deacon john he was like man you should sing and i'm like i don't at one point i was even afraid to even introduce the band on stage you know so i learned over time and i got more serious about it but at first i was a little too nervous but they told me look if you do this, you can reach many more people. Well, that's interesting about singing. Because I performed last night.

I'm a comic. And I've always played guitar. But I was always afraid of singing. Yeah, yeah. Because it's embarrassing and vulnerable and weird. It is. It is. It's a strange thing.

I'm telling you, early on i just would like point to the band members and say thank you i was just so nervous but i see my brother do it all the time and i was like well if i want to be like that i better start doing it and then of course dr john he has his own personality i was like well i can do that sure sure he's no uh he's no virtuoso singer but he got his thing and that made me more comfortable listening i'm like that's cool that he has when you hear that you know it's him you know it's him yeah yeah so he was hanging around your family all the time yeah way before i was even born yeah he was a part of the family that's wild man yeah he's because he's such a character yeah yeah and you know and it's

just like it's it must have been nice to know him as the dude. It is. He lived a long time, too. He did. He would call me on the road and check up on me. How you doing? How do you talk? Yeah, man, how you feeling? We were in the studio, and he was like, look, I got to go, but put a little trick knowledge on there for me.

You know, he always had some sayings that sometimes I didn't catch it until five minutes later. But it was always wonderful to be around him. I've been so blessed to be able to come up under a lot of legends that's not here with us and learn. One-on-one. One-on-one. Like who? Some of the other ones. Of course, Alan Tussauds. Sure. He just passed not too long ago, right?

Yeah, he passed not too long ago. There's the Neville brothers. Yeah. I grew up playing with them since i was like 13 years old so i've been able to be influenced uh so like i was telling going from noca yeah i had another parallel experience of playing with these guys right right like active mentorship active mentorship learning on the spot being on the road with them and also uh so that the goal i mean i guess the challenge there was um to keep the natural ability and the connectivity yeah to the people and also learn

this other uh technical ability right because i had some friends that go that went into the school with me they had so much fire by the time we finished they were technically proficient but they didn't have no no no no soul anymore right so i lost it they lost it it became too technical technique yeah too technical yeah too book wide right and i was like wow but i'm glad i was able to keep that i think i kept it but i know it seems like you have a sort of commitment and a growing vision of what you're doing. Yeah. But it's open. It's open, yeah.

And also, I think it seems that you have leadership qualities. I think that in the sense that maybe the same thing that made you nervous about singing or whatnot made you very aware of what was going on with all the instruments. Yeah, absolutely. made you very aware of what was going on with all the instruments. Yeah, absolutely. So, because you have to, like, you're clearly, you have to be a band leader at some point if you're going to put that stuff together. Yeah, absolutely. If you're doing the arrangements, you got to be like, this is how this goes.

Well, you know, and you have to be a student, too. So, I had to do a lot of studying with different people and watching people. So, when I do go back with my band because i i had uh at seven eight years old i had my neighbors across the street sammy and wayne we put together this brad's band out as i told you we were trying to imitate the people in the neighborhood yeah he my brother and i took them across not being able to technically speak to them at that age but i taught them how to play the bass drum and snare drum yeah of what I was hearing in the family and from that time they started to grow on their own and then I was always the person in the group so we we had a bass drum and snare drum then me on the trombone right but

then we didn't have a trumpet player then the guy down the street could play the trombone so I would play the trumpet right and then we finally got a trumpet player, but we didn't have a tuba player. And then I switched to tuba. And so I played all the instruments in the group. And it was a beautiful thing. Now that I'm thinking about it, I didn't realize that we were really developing and doing some things together. But I wasn't able to speak, but I can teach them the way my brother taught me at that age. Right.

And out of necessity, you were able to kind of you know take on all the instruments so it gave you a very nuanced understanding of what to expect from those instruments absolutely yeah huh yeah so like you can play any kind of horn that's got that that mouthpiece on it i guess yeah i think so i haven't tried a french horn yet but i had one i had how could you not have just tried it? I had one when I was younger, when I was learning, but I'm about to order a bunch of horns and just play around with them. Oh, really?

Just to have them around? Just to have them around. Now, are there different types of trombones? Like, I noticed there's a couple different types of trombones. Yeah, you got a standard trombone, alto trombone, which is a little small. You got an F attachment, which you see in classical music a lot.

What is that? It's an F attachment. You ever see where the guys have like a lot of pipes? Yeah, yeah, yeah. What is that? So that's like,

they use that in classical because you can, so we can get certain notes, you can just hit it. So if I'm playing really fast and I want to get a C,

I can, that's six percent, I can get it in a first position where I was stretching my arm. Oh, I see. I can just hit the note here. So you might have like a fast riff.

Do you feel like that's cheating? No, no, no, not at all. I have one of them. It's not cheating at all. Yeah, because you can only do two or three notes. But it's like if you're going, ba-da-da-da-da-dum, instead of going all the way out. But you usually just use a straight, regular, standard trombone? Yeah, I'm just regular.

Yeah, yeah. I got to be rock and roll on that one, yeah. So when you go out with Kravitz, that seems like it's right around the time that Katrina hit. Yeah, it's a couple of months after I joined the band. So you're away? Well, what happened? What happened? So I was in the band.

We had just started the South America tour, and we were out for a couple of months. And I went back home for a two-week break. And during that two-week break,, three week break, Katrina hit. And I had to get back on tour without knowing where some of my family was. We still was trying to locate people and really and different things. Yeah. So but thank the Lord that I was in that band at that moment because I was able to make a living. Yeah. With a superstar a superstar yeah playing arenas and different things and and later on when things started to settle down yeah we we were doing an

American tour I think it was uh Lenny and uh and we were playing on the road with Aerosmith yeah we were doing like a co-build thing yeah he was opening up and uh one good thing about that is that we traveled all over united states and most of my family and friends were displaced and everywhere really so i so everything the whole neighborhood got flooded out then yeah the neighborhood my neighborhood of is close to the french quarter which is the highest point of the city okay so we had some water in that neighborhood but nothing that that was that was topping the house like it was in the ninth wall. Oh, so you got lucky. Yeah, we got lucky.

We just had to change some floors and some wooding around. And you found everybody? We found everybody, yeah. We found everybody. It took some months, but we found everybody. Months? Yeah, some people, you know, maybe about a month or so that we didn't hear from everyone. Oh.

And after about a month or two, we started to know where everyone was well and did you find that it did it change any like you're already close to the city but did that did that change the necessity of of uh you know sort of how you feel about the city no no if anything it uh it made everyone from new or Orleans realize that we had a magical special place. Yeah. Because I was telling you before Katrina, there were some people that never left their neighborhood and even seen the rest of New Orleans in 30 years. So that just made us feel closer and we just hug it a little tighter. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so this record you know

i read some of the press you know you had your mother in mind uh in the title lifted yeah yeah when did she pass away november oh a couple of months ago and my grandmother uh february yeah right after that yeah and did you did you play at their funerals? Of course. Yeah? It was very hard. It's very hard to perform. But I've probably played hundreds of funerals being in New Orleans, but that was probably

the toughest. Yeah, of course. Yeah, yeah. But I played all the way to the end. Yeah? Yeah. Does it help, like, I guess in the same sense, well, Jews, they do a week thing. It's a week long.

You don't do much of anything. You don't work. You don't do nothing. It's different. You reflect. But I imagine that the spiritual element with the support of the family and the other musicians and everybody in the community that knew the deceased, that once you get done with that playing that you feel some relief

I imagine yeah you can see it and feel it so as soon as someone passes away in New Orleans

that was a cultural barrier a musician that week things happen we do a whole week of parades only for like

cultural barriers of people musicians up yeah that kept it along but you'll see it's a sadness and then once we start playing and we finish it it is a sign of relief right the music takes us there and then we got through it because we've been dealing with it all week but we right we don't sit down and and and sit in the dark room right it's like a immediate way to deal with the trauma of grief. Yeah. Because grief, you know, comes and goes, man. Yeah, yeah.

You know, you can't manage it. But I imagine it's just that sort of like, here you go. Here we go, yeah. Giving it to the sky or whatever. That's it. Wow. So this record comes out, it's out?

It's not out yet. No, it's out on April 29th. Yeah, man. It's like the whole thing just plows along. Thank you. Thank you. It's all the horns, too. Who's the producer on this?

Chris Seafree. And you record this at your own place? Yeah, in New Orleans. I got a place we call Buck Jump, which is another word for second lining. We like to buck jump out there. Oh, buck jump. All right. Yeah.

And I bought the studio from uh better than ezra oh yeah yeah i know those guys yeah so they had it for many many years and i was recording in there and they said that they was getting rid of it and i told them to have whoever called me yeah and then we started to so it was already set up it was already set up of course i did a little remodeling to get it up to date and different wiring and different things but it was already ready and they're new orleans guys i don't think they're from new orleans but they've they started their career or at least they've been there for 20 30 years so they're part of us right but that's interesting

though because like you were saying earlier it gives you the option to be if you have your own space and you got the keys you could just you can get an idea and call someone in the middle of the night and say, let's work out this riff or whatever. And that happens. It does. Yeah, I just call my engineer

and I call my guitar player. Sometimes, normally, I'll just go by myself and then I'll try to create all of the instruments by myself and they'll come in and play it much better than me.

Right. But on the record, we did a song, Might Not Make It Home. We were actually playing at the House of Blues for an event for the school that I went to, a fundraiser. We probably got off at midnight,

and I had this vibe in my head as soon as I got off, and I just told the band, hey, man, y'all all right? Let's get something to eat. Yeah. And we went to the studio, and we started the session about 2 a.m. And we recorded that vibe.

Really? Yeah. And you got it. And we got it. We just stayed there until like 6 in the morning. I got skylights in there. So the sun started to come out. But we were in the thing.

And that's the beauty of having it. I just had to make sure none of their girlfriends got mad with me from them not coming home right afterwards, you know. Make sure they understood where they were. Yeah, they understood. We're working. We're working. We're working, that's right. Well, that's a lot better to have that than to try to get it on your phone. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Sometimes when I get ideas, I can't sleep until I got at least the music 100% complete. Right. So I have to do it right there and be able to feel it in a few hours of taking it home so I can move on to the next idea on top. So we went in there to record it as if this is the end. Right. This is what we need to do. Oh, yeah, yeah.

Like we can't touch nothing else. Right. Well, so you said that like some of the other records, you know, you get kind of meticulous about, you know, how everything needs to be in the studio. In this record, it's more informed by the energy that you guys get when you're live. Absolutely. So what'd you have to do to stop yourself from over, you know what I mean, from...

Being meticulous. Yeah, or just overproducing it. Well, we did it... Well, we learned the music and then we performed it. Okay. Yeah. So you performed it live? In the studio.

Right. Yeah. So I was like, let's learn it. Oh, I see. Let's see where we are. We did very, very little overdubs, mostly like tambourines and horns. Really? Yeah.

So with all that, how many guys in your band? I got 10 people in the band uh 12 but only three or four of them was on this record like we used a one drum i got two drummers we use one drummer yeah uh bass guitar yeah organist and uh and the other guitar and most times i played uh fender roads and uh-huh just auxiliary what are all the horns uh me on tuba yeah trombone, and trumpet, and we had a baritone, sax, and a tenor sax. So you did three horns? I did three horns. So you're saying you just played the basis,

the core of the song live. Yeah. And then you layered it on. And then we put the horns on. But we played together. Right. So because the studio's not that big, we could have done it,

but I let the rhythm section, is the drums bass keys and guitar They played and maybe I was singing a scratch vocal just to guide them Yeah And then me and the horns we went back in there and we played it live on top of so we can get the same Room sound yeah, that's not that horn sound you jacked up those horns. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I do a lot of Doubling and tripling so we we'll play the line it's great and then we'll play it again yeah then we'll play it again but sometimes when you're recording horns especially the saxophones you'll get a phasing

thing when you double it uh-huh so what we'll do is when we double sometimes we'll switch parts so whatever the sax played on the first one i will play that on my trombone and he'll play what my trombone is playing okay so we got the same chord and the same sound yeah but the texture is different oh wow yeah that's a that's a lot and you know i think like it's timely because it seems to me that like something's happening within hip-hop and R&B that there is a kind of slightly retro movement going on yeah yeah right right you know like with silk sonic and shit where you you know you're kind of getting back to that to that type of R&B that was a little more easy listening yeah yeah yeah that's right right and so maybe like you know it's time that you

know that that a real sort of renewed renewed interest in that kind of 70s horn band thing. Because really, when I'm listening to it, I'm like, this used to happen a lot. Right. And it doesn't happen anymore. That's right. Yeah. Maybe I'm in the wrong time. No, no.

Maybe your timing's perfect for right now. That's right. Yeah. Because all of it comes back around. Yeah, yeah. And it's new and different. It's new and different. Yeah, yeah.

Even like Sly, man. Sly found his song. Does big horns. Yeah. Big horns. Yeah. But yeah, I haven't heard anything like it in a long time. And it's totally its own thing.

It's not drawing from anything, but it was just sort of like the whole presence of the horn band hasn't been around in a while. That's right. It's time. That's what I'm saying. No, it's definitely time. Hopefully we lead in the pack so we can get some more. Yeah. But what do you do? Because I know you have some... Do you teach? Do you have a school? Do you have a foundation?

I have a foundation, and we have an academy that's connected to the foundation. Oh, yeah. So we... Every Monday night in New Orleans, do you have a foundation I have a foundation and we have an academy that's connected to the foundation oh yeah so we every Monday night in New Orleans after school we get a bunch of children

and we teach them I hire a lot of local musicians because I'm always on the road so I can't be there so I'll drop in when I can but we put some

of the older musicians to well people my age and a little older and younger to work to teach the kids yeah so in the program not only do

they learn music but they learn music business and audio engineering oh wow so at a young age um i wanted to make sure that those kids had all the tools and nothing was foreign to them so when they because let's be honest some of them not going to continue to play music yeah some of them going to go into the music side of business. That's okay. But it's all an entertainment business. So we try to give them everything. That way when they become professionals, none of this is completely new to them. Right.

Because there's a lot. It's good. It's a good option to integrate their understanding of what it takes to make music, recorded music. their understanding of what it takes to make music, recorded music. Because if somebody's not great or they lose their esteem as a musician, they can at least say, well, I can put my talents in this other area. And it's still in the same arena. Yeah, exactly.

So we wanted to give that to the kids. Yeah, because we don't need any more bitter musicians around. No, we don't need that at all, please. We got a lot. We got plenty of those. Yeah, somebody told me, they said, you know how to get a musician to complain? I said, how? They said, give them a gig.

I definitely experienced that with some people. I'm like, man, you know. What are you working? Yeah, you was at home just chilling. Now we on the thing. Okay, all right. Then you understand why they don't get work. That's right.

Yeah. But they don't understand. Of course not. It was good talking to you, man. Same here, man. Thank you for having me. Yeah. Trombone Shorty. That was exciting.

I learned a lot. And I like that. I like learning about music. and I like that guy, and I like the new record, Lifted, which is available tomorrow, April 29th, wherever you get your music. Go to wtfpod.com slash tour for the dates. I'm going to go. I'm going to go to the Walgreens because I'm in Madison, Wisconsin,

and I want to go check out the Walgreens because I like Walgreens. That's what I do on the road, man. Let's go look at the travel section. Travel section time. No music. Go listen to Trombone Shorty. Boomer lives. Monkey and La Fonda.

Cat angels everywhere. Cat angels fucking everywhere We'll be right back. on Uber Eats. But meatballs and mozzarella balls, yes, we can deliver that. Uber Eats. Get almost almost anything. Order now. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. It's a night for the whole family. Be a part of Kids Night when the Toronto Rock take on

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