WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1334 - Joey Camen

Episode Date: May 26, 2022

Joey Camen left a dysfunctional home in Detroit as a teenager and, thanks to an ad he saw in a Playboy, knew exactly where he needed to go. He went straight to the brand new club on the Sunset Strip, The Comedy Store, and quickly became one of the club's first regulars. Joey and Marc talk about those early days of the Store, living in fear of Mitzi, and becoming friends with the likes of Paul Mooney and Richard Pryor before falling under the tutelage of legendary voice actor Daws Butler. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Along with your favorite restaurant food, alcohol, and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing.

With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fuck

steens what's happening i'm mark maron this is my podcast welcome to it how's everybody holding up what a fucking travesty what a fucking murderous shit show this country is god damn it hard to have hope sometimes i'm the fucking shame to myself because I feel like I'm losing hope in this idea that, you know, we can get some reasonable gun control laws on the books. So murderous psychopathic killers can't get guns when they turn 18. Happy birthday, killer. Fuck.

Something's got to happen, man. My heart goes out to all the people that lost people. It's fucking terrible. God, every day, man. Every day. You got to check in with it. You can't just live in a shell or live in your circle or live in your four block radius this affects everybody oh my god i just spent two days cooking

today on the show joey cayman is here he's uh he's one of the comedy store originals he's a guy that i remember watching when i was a doorman at the comedy store he was he was there a couple years after it started in the mid 70s he uh you know i i ran into him for some reason he always sticks into my it sticks in my head this joey cayman fellow like what happened to him he was actually on the old richard pryor show there was a whole bunch of those uh those comics from the mid 70s that showed up on that show because Richard booked them on there. And I just saw Joey at the Comedy Store birthday party, and I was excited.

I was like, oh, my God, Joey Kamen. I don't know if he's seen that much excitement to see him in a while. But he also wrote two books, My Life with Snoopy and his autobiography, Laughing Through the Pain, Stories from the Trenches of Hollywood Stand-Up Comedy and Beyond. And I don't know, I just wanted to talk to Joey Kamen. It turned out to be kind of interesting and a little odd.

But that'll be happening. Also, look, we announced earlier this week that starting in July, we begin a new partnership with ACAST. Some of you saw that tweet, some of you saw the announcement, some of you read the articles. But let's go over what it means for you as a listener. If you listen to the free version of this show, the way you listen doesn't change. Do you hear me? Does not change. A big reason we decided to partner with ACAST is we're able to keep the show on all its current platforms. So however you listen to WTF, you can keep listening the way you listen to it. What you will get is many more episodes from the archives for free. We're going to bring a majority of the episodes out from behind the paywall

so everybody has access to them. That's going to be a first. Now for people who subscribe to Stitcher Premium to get our back catalog wtf will be leaving stitcher premium on june 30th so that's a little heads up if you're on a monthly plan there or you want to make any changes to your account okay june 30 we're out of stitcher premium starting july 1st it will be a monthly subscription option through acas+. You do not need a separate app for this. You do not. When you sign up for ACAST+, you get your subscription content on your current apps. For ACAST+, subscribers, you'll get every episode in our back catalog ad-free,

plus weekly bonus content that we're going to produce exclusively for subscribers. Yes. Now, look, we'll get you more details on all this as we get closer to the launch date, but to recap, here's the deal. If you listen to the show for free, just keep listening. Nothing changes except you'll get a lot more episodes in your feed. If you are a Stitcher Premium subscriber, we'll be off that service on June 30th, and we'll have subscriptions available on Acast Plus starting July 1st. We want to thank Stitcher for their partnership over the years, and a big thanks to Acast for these new options. It's very exciting. Brendan and I are very happy. I hope you'll be happy. It's a nice

incentive for us to create more stuff. So I've been home for a few days. I go back out tomorrow. I'll be at the Vogue Theater in Vancouver on Saturday night. I'm looking forward to spending a day in Vancouver. I would have spent more time there. I would have gone out to the islands, but I've been away so much. And the cats are always...

Something's going on with the cats. The weird thing about cats is cats are always, something's going on with the cats. The weird thing about cats is cats are fucking weird. They change. They do weird shit as they get older or they just decide different things. It's like, oh, I guess you're sleeping there now. When did that happen? All right. And they're a lot more friendly. I think they really, it's hard to tell with cats sometimes, but I think my cats miss me when I'm gone. It's nice. I'm happy there's two of them. But, you know, in and out of town.

So now the work begins to shave this two-hour set into something very tight. Into like a tight 70 minutes as we approach the fall. And hopefully we'll have something for HBO to record. So, Joey Kamen. It's so funny. You know, there's still, after we talked on mic, there was off mic stuff. There's just gossip that's gone back in that place since what? 75, 85, 95, 2005, 2008.

Like 50 years. 50 years. There's some, there's still some like it's weird you know it wasn't on mic but there's still you know small beefs they can last forever man life is short and uh if you got a problem with somebody and you can't shake it you might not write that down life is short if you can't muster up an apology you're just gonna have to live with that thing you're gonna take that resentment to your grave might not even be real anyway joey cayman is here his books my life with snoopy and the other book laughing through the pain stories from the trenches of holly Hollywood stand-up comedy and beyond. You can get both wherever you get books.

And this is me talking to Joey Cain. It's winter and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats. But meatballs, mozzarella balls, and arancini balls? Yes, we deliver those. Moose? No. But moose head? Yes. because that's alcohol and we deliver that too along with your favorite restaurant food groceries and other

everyday essentials order uber eats now for alcohol you must be legal drinking age please enjoy responsibly product availability varies by region see app for details it's a night for the whole family be a part of kids night when the the Toronto Rock take on the Colorado Mammoth at a special 5 p.m. start time on Saturday, March 9th at First Ontario Centre in Hamilton. The first 5,000 fans in attendance will get a Dan Dawson bobblehead courtesy of Backley Construction. Punch your ticket to Kids Night on Saturday, March 9th

at 5 p.m. in Rock City at torontorock.com. Yeah, I thought when you were doing that voice at the beginning, it almost sounded like Sam, like Kennison. And I was like, oh, no. Oh, Kennison? Yeah, yeah. But it was a Sam Elliott voice. Yeah.

You want to talk about that piece of shit? Now, I'm about to put my foot up your ass, Martin. I mean, I wasn't talking about Power of the Dog. I was talking about Joker. My few minutes. My two minutes in joker now how did you uh did you got to actually see robert deniro get his brains blown out son i did right right in front of me it was crazy awesome awesome that's good that's a pretty good one but you weren't like when i i don't remember

like i've mentioned you on the show before right you. You know, and I guess that got back to you. Yeah, yeah. It was very nice of Mark to do that. I'm like, wow. Who told you? A buddy of mine, a guy named Adam. Yeah. Yeah, he says he listens to your show all the time. Is he in the business?

Yeah, he's a producer. Oh, yeah? Yeah. And he said, you know Mark Maron? He goes, Mark Maron mentions you on the show all the time. I said, you're kidding me. Yeah. Yeah.

Why? Why does Mark Maron mention me on the show? Yeah, yeah. Like, really? I have no recollection of Marc Maron. No, no. No, I do. But it's like we ran in different circles.

I was a kid. Yeah. I'm a few years older than you. How old are you, Joe? I'm 65. Yeah. And I've been doing this since I'm 17. Well, here's the thing. And I'll tell you, and we'll? I'm 65. Yeah. You know, and, you know, I've been doing this since I'm 17. Well, here's the thing, and I'll tell you, and we'll go back to 17.

Yeah. Is that, like, when I was a doorman, you know, I was very impressionable. Like, I was not quite defined as a human, right? So I was, like, 21, 22, out of college. And I get that job at that weird-ass fucking place in 19, it must have been 87 early 87 87 right okay and i'm just a door guy right and so i you know i'm working all the rooms she made me head door guy mitzi did so i'm seeing the people that are on and you at that time were kind of in the rotation yeah in 87 was like you jan hart karen haber uh karen babbitt yeah uh uh steve odenkirk damon wayans dice

sam was kind of rising and dice was kind of rising who else was there fly sure occasionally so like i developed some sort of altman yeah and you know jack perdue tim jones johnny dark like you know larry Perdue, Tim Jones, Johnny Dark, like, you know, Larry Scarano. But there was this whole crew of these guys that not a lot of people know. Yeah. But I got very, like, I'd see you every, like, twice a week, three times a week. Yep. And so, like, whoever you were and whoever you are, it stuck in my brain.

So, like, you were always a guy that I was like, what happened to that guy? Where's that guy at? You do all those characters. Yep. So where did you start comedy? At the store? At the store. So how did you get, where did you grow up?

I grew up in Detroit, in the city. Are you a Jew from Detroit? Yeah. A Jew from Detroit. Yeah, a Jew from Detroit, Russian Romanian Jew. Where in the city? I was just in Detroit, not that I would know. I grew up on like six mile on Rose Lawn, which is like went to Bagley Elementary School, Henry Ford High School. Henry Ford High School, where they taught anti-Semitism?

I know because of Henry Ford. No, but everything's called, Henry Ford's got all the shit named after him in Detroit. I stayed at a hotel that was at the fire headquarters in Detroit. This huge fire headquarters right on Learned Street, I think. It's Learned or something like that. I think that's in Detroit. Yeah. Right in the city.

I wasn't a suburbanite. Most of the comedians that said they were from Detroit were not. They're from the suburbs. Except for like- Binder. Yeah. And I'm not sure where he grew up. He's a Detroit guy.

Yeah. Willie Tyler is from Detroit. Yeah. He's a friend. And Johnny Witherspoon is from Detroit who I used to hang where he grew up. He's a Detroit guy. Yeah. Willie Tyler is from Detroit. Yeah. He's a friend. And Johnny Witherspoon is from Detroit who I used to hang out with. Yeah. Who passed away recently. Recently, yeah.

So you're in Detroit as a kid. Now, was your dad in the auto industry? Nah, nah. My father was a, he just was like a upholstery salesman. A upholstery salesman? And was he like born in the States? Yeah, he's from Detroit. Oh, full of Detroit.

Yeah, yeah, Detroit. My grandparents are from Russia and Romania. Right, and your mom too? My mom's from Detroit. Yeah. So there you are in what you just did. It's the late 60s. At 15, I made a plan to leave Detroit.

At 15? At 15. I had a very horrible childhood. Why? It was really bad. You know, it was not good. My parents,

it was not good. In which way? In the way that, you know, my parents were not that bright, you know, and I was always,

you know, fighting with them and just, you know, it was just, it was not good. Yeah. It was pretty dysfunctional.

Like most comedians. No, no booze or violence. Not with me. Yeah. No, there was no. No, but I mean with the folks. No, no, no, no, no, no. It was more just, you know, uh, other kinds of abuse.

Emotional. Emotional. And, um, you know, I won't get into the other. Are they both gone? Yeah, they're both gone yeah they're both gone they're both gone you can talk about them oh i can talk about it i can talk about oh no no i can talk about you know like a lot of comedians you know are you know drug addicts and recovering addicts and all that kind of stuff and um mine's more of a sex addiction oh okay you know most

people don't like to talk about that it's like oh hey how many years of recovery you got an alcohol yeah oh oh congratulations yeah what about a sex addict oh what the fuck yeah what is that you got you got oh yeah no whores for how many years oh what the fuck you know it's like no one talks about it no one talks about i just read an interesting little bit about you know because i've had arguments with that with sex workers about you know whether or not you know porn addiction exists oh it's a very i'll guarantee you one thousand percent it exists well i mean it but it's it's framing it that way the reason why sex industry people don't want to frame it that way is it's easy to exploit it then by the wrong people by the right wing or religious fanatics that you know it's like, you know, they look, that means they look at their work as some, you know, horrible thing, like a drug. So they kind of are defensive about that. But the truth of the matter is dopamine is dopamine and how you get it is how you get it.

And if you're jacking your dopamine up to get off, then it's an addiction, period. Oh, it's a total addiction. I mean, if you go into the uh you know um if you most people have never been into like a recovery room with with sex addicts yeah and you know they um you see these kids you know they've been addicted to porn on the internet since like 10 11 years old yeah they're so fucked up you know and it's so sad i mean and they have to stay away from it to get it to get well i think that's that's the tricky thing about food and sex addictions is that you have to figure out what your bottom line is. You have to figure out what your line is. You know, and there's programs that they have. Sure.

You know, there's- I have this law book. Oh, yeah. There's Sex Addicts Anonymous. There's Sex and Love Addicts. That's a whole different thing. But it's more of a lot of those people are more love addiction as opposed and sex combined but the sex addiction uh yeah boy i don't can't believe i'm talking about this

and how are you doing with it all right oh yeah yeah i've got like how many years 28 wow that's pretty good yeah uh so so you ran away from home basically basically. Pretty much. Yeah. Well, I didn't run away from home. I made a plan. I mean, who plans at 15? What was the plan? At 15, I bought a van, and I moved out here, and I wanted to be- What was the plan? The plan was to become a stand-up comedian.

Based on what? Why'd you decide that? Who was it that made you feel better? Jonathan Winters was my idol. Okay. Well, that makes sense. Yeah, you kind of did that kind of thing. Yeah, that kind of stand-up.

Yeah, yeah. And I actually got to work with him, too. Oh, yeah? I got to work with my idol back in 94. Really? Working on this animated show called Little Dracula. Got riffing? Oh, my God.

It was the most fun I ever had with him. So you drive the car out. You drive your van out. Yeah. The VW van? No, no. It was a big Ford Connell line. Oh, the Connells.

It was actually a mini home. It was a mini. I bought it myself. You bought it used? Yeah, yeah. And your parents were like, get the fuck out of here? No, no, not at all. I had to leave.

It was just so dysfunctional. Oh, really? I had to go. Really? I had to go. All right. It was just so bad. All right.

I had to get the fuck? I had to go. All right. It was just so bad. All right. I had to get the fuck out of there. Yeah. But back then, and I looked so young, I mean, it was really, I remember being on Hollywood Boulevard, and I just turned 18, and I had my ID on, and they were Troon officers. Yeah. Because it's near Hollywood High School. Yeah. I remember they were like uh god

all the stuff's coming back to me they were um let me see your id because they were like you know getting kids in trouble because they were skipping school right i just turned 18 i showed him my card yeah i didn't get in trouble because i thought it was from the high school yeah it was weird yeah i mean i i can't and here's how i did the the Comedy Store. I auditioned, and Mitzi liked me immediately. And within four times of ever being at the Comedy Store, I was a regular. How do you know to go there? How do I know to go there?

This is how I discovered the Comedy Store. I was working in a furniture store in Detroit. For your dad? No, no, no. This is a real high-end furniture store. And I was this horny kid, and they had Playboy magazine. Yeah. So I go up into the loft to look at the magazine, you know.

So you're jerking off upstairs. No, I didn't jerk off. All right. I didn't jerk off. Okay. But I started reading this article, and it was an article about the comedy store. And it's in Mid-Sea Shore in Playboy. Yeah.

So I call her. I call her i call her i was ballsy kid yeah you know i think i was 16 call her from detroit yeah i call her and i said uh she goes well you know you can come on out and you can audition i said okay and she was from her sammy and her lived in uh detroit uh-huh i don't know if you knew that missy and sammy lived in detroit and actually lived on a street called Littlefield and I lived on a street called- After Minneapolis or wherever she was from? Wisconsin.

Wisconsin. That's why she talks like this. Yeah, yeah. People don't realize she's not whiny. That's the Wisconsin accent. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's also a little nasally. Yeah, it's nasally too, but it's also a Wisconsin accent.

So she tells you to come out, so was that part of the reason? Yeah. You're like, I'm in with Mitzi. Yeah. So you get out here here where do you live oh oh 16 or 17 oh 17 i placed an ad this is really freaky i placed in i'm just nutty i when i look back on it how do i have the balls to do this so young yeah i look back on myself too i don't know how i did yeah i put an ad in the la times young man 18 looking for room for rent ad in the LA Times. Yeah. Young man, 18, looking for room for rent. Okay?

In the LA Times. Yeah. Okay? Oh, my God. Yeah. And I was really 17. Yeah. Or 16 at the time.

Right. Oh, my God. I got letters from all these gay guys. Yeah. Like, sending me their pictures and shit. Yeah. You can live in my pool house. I didn't know what it was.

You know what I mean? I'm from the Midwest. You know, you didn't know what a gay person was even then. Oh, my God. And people had to send you actual photographs. They would send me photos of themselves and stuff i'm like i was freaked i was freaked out yeah and then there was one letter from some some chick who said you could stay with me and my son yeah room and i ended up staying there and i ended up getting scabies from the fucking bed i was sleeping in and great time yeah oh it's horrible welcome to

la i have one chapter in my book about scabies. Yeah. I got scabies who were staying in the room. Welcome to LA. Yeah. Yeah, I got scabies. Yeah. Like, oh my God, it's horrible.

So you go- And then I stay in this room, okay? And then I go to the- I'm living in this room. Yeah. The scabies room. It's a scabies room. And then I go to the comedy store yeah i audition and mitzi likes me

says 75 come no 74 74 come back next week she says okay yeah and so who do you see that first night you're there i mean this you want to know who started the same exact day as me yeah shirley hemp hill oh yeah all right she was my buddy yeah Yeah? The day she died, yeah. Oh, that's sweet. Yeah. She was great. Yeah, she was great. She was hilarious. So you go back the next week, and you got a spot? Yeah. And you're working? No, I performed, and I only worked about four times, then she said,

you're a regular. Really? Four times? Four times. My whole life. I was like a natural, I guess. I don't know. But you're just doing the voices? Yeah, doing the voices and the characters from the streets of Detroit. Yeah. I was wildest. I I guess. I don't know. But you're just doing the voices? Yeah, doing the voices and the characters from the streets of Detroit. And I was wild on stage. I'd say whatever I wanted. And I just looked, because the voices didn't look like they could come out of me.

In fact, I've sounded like I do right now since I was 17 years old. My voice has not changed. So when you start working there, how many spots do you get in a week? Oh, afterwards, there was no, they weren't paying you then. No, I know. I was getting like, I was working like four nights a week

and actually I was a doorman too. Yeah, me too. I was a doorman when I was 18 and I got fired for gossiping about some waitress who was screwing

this old dude. Turns out the old dude owned the fucking building. Oh, really? Yeah. And Mitzi fired you? Oh, the guy scared the shit out of me. He came up to me.

I don't want to say his name. Yeah. He was a gangster. He's dead. He didn't scare me that much at all because I used to work in Detroit. I used to work in this furniture store I worked in. It was Stone Cold Mafia. Yeah.

I mean, and these guys- Who was the guy? Frank Sennis. Okay. He was a mobster. Yeah. Jewish mobster. Who owned the building?

He owned the whole Zeros building. Yeah. He owned the comedy store building. Okay. He was a mobster. Yeah. Jewish mobster. Who owned the building. He owned the whole, Ciro's building. Yeah. He owned the comedy store building. Huh. And I was like, I said, you know,

and I was talking about this waitress chick and, you know, because I had a crush on her and she was like, oh, she's sleeping with that old dude for her. And then she's like,

Joey's gossiping about me and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then,

and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then,

and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then,

and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then,

and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then,

and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then,

and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, about it and she's like holy fuck it's the it's this guy and he goes i don't like what you're saying about her and i'm like holy fuck like he scared me a little bit but i'm like you know this

guy's so funny this guy's not nothing next day this guy's yeah what i grew up with you know right he didn't scare me that bad because i was there was serious fucking reminding me of the uh mafioso's i used to deal with the lenny bruce mafioso voice at the shelly berman show hey what the fuck? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, so, alright, so you get fired from the door job, but you're still doing spots, right? Yeah, I'm still doing spots. Yeah, she was, Mitchie thought it was

funny. Yeah. You know, she was like, I had a love-hate relationship with her anyway. Who doesn't? I mean, I mean, she was really mean to me. I mean, really fucking mean. In what way? You know, I mean, she would just insult me and... Oh, yeah? Oh, yeah. She was just mean. She was mean. But who's on the... So, like, at that time

you're friends with Shirley and like... Oh, me and Paul Mooney were really good friends. Right, but this is before the strike, right? It'll be way before the strike. So, who's working every night? Like, who are you seeing? Was that... Was Barry Levinson there? Craig T. Nelson? You know, those guys were... They stopped you know, they stopped working.

I think I used to see their pictures there. Yeah. I never really watched. Boy, you have a really good memory. I lived at the place for almost a year and I used to look at the pictures and wonder how everybody fit in. No, I never saw those guys. The little before you.

You know who was there? But Sammy was out. Sammy was definitely out. Okay. Who was also there was like um charlie fleischer was there right mooney was there yeah all the time me and him used to work ye for years to one two in the morning he i'd go along like at one thirty he closed the show for like an hour at the end and so but prior was coming around then too right prior was definitely

prior was there like 75 and on yeah i watched him do hundreds of shows, hundreds of shows. And so, but when did, but he was sort of the first major star that like kind of the place, you know, made its living. Yeah, well, you know, the guy that really made that place was Jimmy Walker. Yeah. You know, he was a big star and he put his name on the marquee and we filmed every night. Yeah. People don't know that. It wasn't for him. He knows that. I that he'll tell you that he'll tell you that but

it's true it's true yeah it's true but so but letterman and leno were hanging around oh yeah leno and letterman were there oh yeah yeah leno was great let jay leno could do 90 minutes in a clip and make it look like it was the easiest thing in the world he's a great stand-up comedian he was like the best letterman's there oh stand-up comedian. He was like the best. Letterman's there. Oh, yeah, David was there. He was like the guy from Indianapolis. I saw him a couple years ago at Johnny Witherspoon's memorial.

The funeral? Yeah. Yeah, he's still a good guy. He's gotten very sweet, I think, in his old age. I don't know him as a young man, but I've done his show, and he's got a big heart these days. Yeah, David's a – I've always his show, and he's got a big heart these days. Yeah. David's a...

I've always liked David. So who are your friends? Shirley and Mooney and who else? Oh, God. Or did you... You were living at the place. You were there all the time. I hung out with...

Who else did I hang out with back then? I hung out with Johnny Witherspoon a lot. Yeah. It's weird. It's like my life from when I was a kid in Detroit was the same same i hang out with mostly the black comedians yeah you know it was weird you know you grew up hanging out with mostly black people yeah yeah from the age of up to 11 i only had black friends and then i i moved into a white neighborhood and it was the worst i was bullied and then it was like the worst thing oh really people thought it was like you know it was really funny because like

when you when i mentioned my old life to people and I say, well, I was like the only white kid in my fifth grade English class. Yeah. And they'd whisper to me, weren't you scared? Yeah, yeah. And I'm like, what do you mean wasn't I scared? That's all I knew. Yeah, yeah.

And then when I moved into the white neighborhood because I was a tiny kid, white kids beat the shit out of me. Yeah. It was like in the black neighborhoods, I was like fun. I was cool to hang out with. I was a cute little kid. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You were like a novelty, a mascot. I was fun. Yeah, yeah. I was cool to hang out with. I was a cute little kid. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You were like a novelty.

A mascot. I was fun. I was fun to hang out with. So when you get out here, so you're doing comedy. So what's the plan? I mean, you're getting spots. So what are you going on? Auditions?

Oh, yeah. I was going on auditions. I was when I was- Alan Berski. What about Berski? What about him? He was around, right? He was around.

Freddie Prince? A little bit. Freddie Prince, I didn't know. Just to say hello, I saw him there. Oh, yeah? I would see him there. I'd see all these guys. Yeah.

You know? But when I was 18, I was- Actually, today is his 34th year of his death. My mentor, Dawes Butler. Dawes Butler was the voice of Huckleberry Hound, Yogi Bear, Quick Drum McGraw, Snagglepuss Jinx, Pixie, Augie Doggie, Captain Crutch, Wally the Gator, Lippy Lime.

He saw me at 18 at the comedy store. Get the fuck out of here. Yeah. He was hanging around. He wasn't a comic. No, but get this. My roommate at that time, I moved into this other house,

and I've got a roommate. Out of the Scabies house. Yeah, out of the Scabies house, and I got roommates, and one of the roommates was right writing for uh some radio show and yeah Dawes was on the radio show and he goes you got to meet my roommate Joey he's a stand-up comedian there's all these voices and characters and stuff and it turns out Dawes had started as a stand-up comic in Ohio doing voices and characters yeah you know all that stuff so he comes to the comedy store.

And it used to be Monday night potluck. So he started doing his voices on stage. Yeah, so he comes to the comedy store, sees my act, likes me. I go, hey Mitzi, Dawes Butler is here. And I go, Dawes, you want to go on stage? And he says, Mitzi, Dawes Butler.

Who's that? I go, he's Yogi Bear, Huckleberry Hound, Quick Draw, Snagglepuss. Tell the MC to put him in next. Yeah. uh, Dawes Butler. Who's that? I go, he's Yogi beer, Huckleberry hound, quick draw, snaggle, put it in a, tell the MC to put him in next. Yeah. So he goes on and the place goes,

and he hasn't been on stage in front of a live audience. And God knows how long. Yeah. Mark. Yeah. So he's going, he's doing all the characters. The audience is when, how often do you get to see Huckleberry hound and Yogi beer and quicker?

And then he's doing all these characters on stage and they're his it's him and he's only like five feet tall yeah what is it with you short guys in the voices yeah he's short guys i'm serious no no yeah paul freeze was who's like the voice of all the haunted mansion and all that stuff yeah he was only like five two huh a big deep voice. You know, and so he's going nuts. He kills? You're only supposed to do five minutes. He's on like 40 minutes, and the crowd's going nuts. And then the black dude yells out, Do Bugs Bunny, motherfucker! And he goes, and he goes,

That's not me, that's not me. And then, get him off! Get him off. Then they finally got him off, and then he went on the second night, and I remember, yeah, he went on, and he came back this next week, and did it again. Killed I remember, yeah, he went on and came back this next week and did it again. Killed?

Yeah, killed. No Mel Blanc voices. No Mel Blanc voices. But it was pretty funny when the guy yelled out, do Bugs Bunny. Because they were the two most famous voiceover people in the world. Him and Mel. Yeah, him and Mel. So Dawes asks me to be his protege. Oh, yeah.

And just like that. How does that work? What's that relationship? How do you be a protege? You're hired. What do you do? You're not hired. You just go to his.

He had a little house in Beverly Hills. Yeah. He had a garage like this. Yeah. Where he had a class, and I would just study with him privately. Oh, he had a class. Yeah. He taught. He taught. Yeah. Even on his tombstone, it says mentor a class, and I would just study with him privately. Oh, he had a class? Yeah, yeah. He taught?

He taught. Yeah, he was, even on his tombstone, it says mentor. Oh, yeah? Yeah, mentor. Yeah, yeah. So you start doing that when you're 19 or 18? 18. And what are you learning as a voice?

Well, you know what? Here's what he did for me. Yeah. You know, they talk about, well, you know, because I had a very good ear. I could do any type of accent, you know, dialect and all that kind of stuff. He gave me confidence. Yeah. You know, it's like, you know, you're that young, you're insecure.

You know, he gave me confidence, Douglas. Yeah. And he would teach me some accent, but basically it was an acting class. Yeah. It was a school that was about characters. Yeah. It was an acting class. Yeah.

It was my first acting class. And I loved it. Yeah. And he was great. I really didn't appreciate it back then. You know, when you're young and cocky, you know, you don't really appreciate what you have. But you're a big fan of his. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. I mean, God. I mean, he was just... So you're doing comedy. But you still, like, if you were still doing comedy in, like, the 80s when I got there, I mean, you were doing comedy.

So did you go out on the road? Yeah, I did do the road a little bit. I did do the- But there was no real comedy clubs then, so would you open for musical acts? I did do some of that, and I did, you know, God, what was I? I'd have to look up on my, you know, my mind's going crazy. Yeah, I did open for musical acts, Jan and Dean and Badfinger. You opened for Badfinger?

Yeah, once. Yeah? Yeah. I opened for Badfinger? Yeah, once. Yeah? Yeah. I opened for Oingo Boingo once. Oingo Boingo, that's a little later than Jan and Dean. Yeah, that was

some stadium somewhere. I can't remember. You know, my mind's a... That's a hard gig, right? Yeah, those gigs are hard, you opening up for those kind of guys.

Yeah. You know, I mean, one story, I didn't open for him, but one time Joe Cocker came to see me at the Comedy Store. I was dating this girl who was Joe Cocker's babysitter. Uh-huh. And Joe Cocker comes to see me.

Yeah. And he likes me. Yeah. So, and he was the most egoless guy I've ever seen in my life. Nice guy. He was the nicest. And he goes, after he sees my act, he goes, let's go. Come on, Joey, let's go come on Joey let's go

and he takes me and we go to he takes me to all these Hollywood parties yeah and he's like and he makes me out to be the star

I'm like I'm like 19 yeah he makes me out to be the star Joe Cocker yeah and he's like

taking me to all these parties and he goes you gotta see Joey he's great he's fucking great and he's like we're at this party and we're about 20 minutes he goes, you got to see Joey. He's great. He's fucking great. And he's like, we're at this party

and we're about 20 minutes. He goes, let's get the fuck out of here. I go, what's going on? He goes, the Scientologist. I don't like it.

Let's go. He didn't want to be around Scientology. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's when it was kind of new too. Yeah, I know. Yeah. And then we went to a party at his house. Yeah.

And they're all doing coke and all this stuff. And I didn't do anything. Nothing? I didn't do drugs at all. Yeah. And they're all doing coke and all this stuff and I didn't do anything. Nothing? I didn't do drugs at all. Yeah, ever. I didn't like drugs. I go into the,

it's like three in the morning and he was so nice. Everybody's doing all this coke and everything. So I'm like sitting there and he goes, I said, Joe, I'm going to go.

He goes, no, no, no, no, no, sit down. He kicks everybody out of the bathroom with me and he's all loaded out of his fucking mind. And he goes, he wants to play me this kicks everybody out of the bathroom with me and he's all loaded out of his fucking mind and he goes,

he wants to play me this cassette tape in the bathroom out of his fucking mind out of this new album and he hits the play button and it's like from that Luxury You Can Afford album

I think or something. It was some new album from the 70s or whatever it was and I go, sounds good, sounds like shit. And he goes,

sounds like shit. he goes sounds like shit and I go oh just shot more yeah yeah I don't want to say he just had done other drugs I thought it sounded good

but he was the nicest guy he didn't want me to leave and I had to leave it was like four hard on himself yeah yeah it was very hard on himself but it was Joe Cocker

it's wild man I mean isn't that wild yeah you're like 18, 19 years old yeah 19 years old and he's the nicest guy i mean it was like he was just a sweetheart so where does the career go like how do you like stay like you're 19 you're doing the voices you're doing this well i did i did voiceover work you

know starting then yeah around 1920 you know i started doing stuff like uh smurfs oh yeah in the 80 early 80s and stuff like that. Yeah, I was a Smurf for about a year. A year, that's pretty good. Yeah, and just character voices and things like that, animation. Yeah, and I remember, like, didn't you have one of those composite headshots where, you know, like you- Yeah, different characters and stuff. There's like a big lollipop one.

A guy holding a big lollipop with a little hat on, like a little kid. Yeah, yeah. Oh, my God, you have a great memory, Mark. I don't even remember half the shit I did. Yeah. Did you do some weird kid character? Yeah, I did a little kid character. Yeah, a little boy character.

Yeah. Who was that guy? There was a little boy character. And that ended up being the voice of one of the Smurfs. You know? What was it? It was a voice like this. His name was Natural Smurf.

He talked like that, okay? Yeah. You know, so my voices would go from little tiny voices to, you know, I did Space Jam back in the 90s. Oh, yeah? Yeah, it was the voice of, what do you call, Bang the Monstar, and his voice was like, you're all washed up,dy you know that was like you know and that was patrick ewing i was playing patrick ewing as a giant goon yeah yeah yeah

you know in space jam yeah so what what was your first big break then with the voices um i guess this was a smurfs smurfs yeah yeah and did you get that who'd you get that through you had an agent yeah i had an agent yeah agent and all that kind of stuff and so like how does that unfold for you if there's such a big part of your life i mean you're doing like you never stopped doing comedy when did you stop like when did you feel like you stopped doing comedy i mean stop doing stand-up yeah well i got bored with it um back in the late 90s and i started doing i did a one-man show for a while. You did? Yeah. Was that an honest one or just character driven? No, it was called In the Hood with Mrs. Aronovitz.

And it was about a, it was one man. I didn't do, you know, a lot of people's comedians go, I'm doing a one-man show. What they do, they do their stand-up in the theater. Yeah, sure. The same act they've been doing forever. Yeah. And that's a one-man show. Right. this was was it was an actual play that i wrote yeah you know because i've been writing for a very long time yeah and um it was about a woman

an old jewish woman who had a an apartment house and her real estate developer son tried to screw out of the out of the building tear it down and pull the parking lot all the tenants get together and rally around the building back for her. So I played like nine different characters. Oh, wow. How'd that go over? It was pretty good. Where'd you do it?

Pretty good reviews. I did it in LA a couple places, and I did it in a couple places in New York. Well, what happened with the, like, so you're at the store still. So where were you during the strike? I was there performing. I didn't cross the line. Yeah. I didn't cross the line at all no no the strike was wild yeah how'd that unfold like what was like what was i've heard a couple points of view on what's that 75 or 76 something like that you know so everybody's just

doing work for nothing everybody's working for free yeah and mitzi i remember this fact and it kind of freaked me out because it was a lot of money she spent like a half a million dollars not to let anybody uh you know during the strike yeah supposedly not to let anyone what work yeah not to have to pay anyone okay really yeah yeah ridiculous amounts of money for what how'd that work what do you i don't know i mean that's i remember a figure that I had heard. So there were people that were striking to get some sort of wage for performing, and then there were people that crossed the line, a few people.

Yeah, quite a few people. Yeah? Yeah. And did they end up getting fucked? You know what? I didn't pay too much attention to it. There were more people that were into that than I was. I didn't want to deal with all the politics and all that crap.? I didn't pay too much attention to it. There are more people that were into that than I was.

I just, I didn't want to deal with all the politics and all that crap. So you didn't work? No, I didn't. I didn't. I just, you know,

collected unemployment or whatever. Yeah. Yeah, but you don't, like, but it did resolve itself eventually. Yeah, yeah. I mean, there's more guys

that know about the whole history of that, like Tom Dreesen knows the whole history of that. Oh, yeah, I talked to him about it. But you were just one of the guys like, I'm just going to avoid the place until they get this settled.

Yeah. Yeah. I didn't want to deal with all that. Those guys were fucking nuts. They were? Yeah. And they're fighting and screaming at each other on the line and all that. The comics.

Comics. They were like angry. Yeah. You know? And just going nuts at each other. Really? Yeah. Like who?

I don't know. He wants to hear all the dirt. Well, no, but I mean, it's like a million years old. It doesn't really matter. I mean, I've talked to Driesen about it. I've talked to Leno about it. I've talked to- Oh, you talked to Leno about it?

Oh, yeah. Ollie Joe Prater, remember him? Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's dead. Sure. He's dead. But he was, what, he crossed the line? Oh, yeah.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. He crossed the line and people were like going ape shit on his ass he's so he was on team mitzi oh he was on team mitzi for a long time and mitzi helped him out go to rehab a couple times i know when i was a doorman he lived up in that house that she had at the top of the parking lot there you know he'd hobble around with his gout and like yeah he's like uh like he was this notorious joke thief that was, you know, always around. Oh, yeah. People didn't like him for doing that at all. Ali had a lot of demons, you know.

Sure. Yeah. By the time I saw him, he looked like he was going to die. He must have weighed 200, 300 pounds. Well, you want to know why he was like that, too? I mean, he's from Jackson, Michigan, which is like a shithole. People don't know this story uh ollie uh when i met him he was driving a meat truck that's what he did for a living yeah and he could like he

bring back a whole he go hey you guys want to hey joey you want to uh he gave me a box of del monaco steaks yeah because he would just take him off the truck and give it to me it's a very tragic story he um was driving the truck and one of the wheels fell off yeah he got in a car accident and he hit a car and two kids were killed little boys uh-huh and he killed two kids yeah terrible and that that that ruined that forever it ruined him forever that's why he was he got high a lot and huh and and gained weight and all that stuff never could process i know yeah even though it was an accident it was an gained weight and all that stuff. Never could process it. Yeah.

Even though it was an accident. It was an accident, yeah. And that was one reason that he was the way he was. Oh, that's terrible. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Most people don't know that story. Yeah. Well, most people don't know him.

They don't know him at a period. Right, right. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. But that was a sad thing for the guy. Oh, yeah, yeah. So when the strike finally resolves itself you start working again yeah you know just you started going on and you got you paid your little 25 dollars or whatever

and yeah because like you were doing the main room a lot when i was the doorman yeah yeah i did the main room and you get you get a little piece of the door you got a piece of the door and you make you could make good money so when did this uh addiction start to reveal itself? For me? Yeah. That revealed itself for me in the 94. Oh, 94 was when you got hip to it? Not when I got into recovery. When you got into recovery. Oh, so you didn't know you were doing anything wrong. How did your life get out of control?

What was the process? Oh, fuck me. What? I mean, it was like a hot process. Do I really want to hear it? I should talk about this shit. I mean, don't you talk about it? Yeah, I do.

And yeah, not that much, but yeah. I mean, it seems to be part of your story. It is part of my story. Yeah, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because you're in Hollywood. You're 19, 20 years old. Yeah, you're cruising for whores.

Yeah. And they're everywhere. That's what you were doing on Sunset St fuck yeah yeah yeah it's just like an alcoholic you know like where do i get my next drink oh yeah i get my next hit of coke yeah where do i get my next hooker yeah so you're a hooker guy yeah i was and that one my wife's gonna really like hearing this oh but she knows yeah she knows but you but but it's interesting because i don't know that I've talked to too many sort of sex addicts that can frame it in a way that is a recovery story. I don't know that people know.

Look, everyone knows there's gambling addicts. Mitchell Walter, you knew him there's gambling addicts, you know, Mitchell Walter. Oh, God. What? You know what's really what I have to say? Because when you talk to comedians, I like to be a positive person, you know? But when you start talking about these people, you know, it can get you into this negative mode. Oh, yeah?

You know, it's like, you know, it's like, you know, it's like, fuck that guy. That guy's a fucking asshole. I know that mode well. You know, it's like, you know, you know, comedians, when you get around, you start talking about people from the past. It's like, that guy's a dick. Yeah. You know, it's like, you know, because like comedians are like some of those negative people you could ever meet. Uh-huh.

You know, and they get up on stage and they're saying all this negative, depressing shit. Yeah. So, I mean, but it's like, yeah, you know, yeah. In fact, Mitchell Walters was the last guy that steve lebeckin saw before he died come on yes he is how do you know that i know it for a fact why because he he said hey how's it going because and he goes he saw him in the lobby of the continental hyatt house yeah when he was going up i said well shit i'd jump too if i had to see with that son of a bitch before. Now they're both gone.

Now they're both gone. I didn't know him that well. I just knew that, you know, I knew the Mitchell office. I knew him. Yeah. He was a gambling addict and just a,

he used to come over to my house and they had a card game once and try to cheat people. I would just, he'd borrow money from waitresses. He was a low life.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Never pay them back. Yeah. Waitresses don't make any money. Yeah. You know, he was just horrible shit.

Yeah. Do you remember when Sam showed up? Sam, oh, yeah. Yeah? Oh, yeah. Yeah, how was that for you? You know, he grew on me. You know, Sam, you know, at first I was like, what the fuck?

This guy's just screaming the shit out. You know, it's like, who's, you know, when you have to scream your punchlines, I mean know it's like who you know when you have to scream your punch lines i mean it's like you know uh-huh come on yeah you know and you know after a while i thought it was funny yeah you know but was he nice to you when he wasn't high yeah right when he was high he was not a nice person yeah what about dice he's all right yeah andy silverstein andrew silverstein yeah but how about damon wayans i remember seeing him when he was a kid over there you guys get along all right yeah all right yeah all right we uh mark wants all the all the dirt no i don't want any dirt i mean this is the weird thing about this particular dirt is it's so small.

It's so small, no one knows, yeah. Exactly. So, like, it's always fascinates me when I talk to guys from the store, because, like, you know, like, I have my experience there. And I've talked to all the old guys, you know, about it. Yeah. But, you know, and Jimmy Walker is very lucid about, you know, that management company he had. And, you know, working with Letterman and Leno and writing for those. There's a whole world there

that a few people care about, but it's just sort of interesting to me from my own experience to know what these guys were like back then because I missed a lot of it. You know what I mean? Yeah. And I worked with these guys.

Yeah, you worked with them all the time. Yeah. I mean, Damon was pretty funny. I mean, actually, Mitzi made us a comedy team for about six weeks. Really?

Yeah, we were called. She was kind of weird like that. Mitzi would do weird shit. Like, you know, comedians worshipped her.

Yeah. I mean, they'd come from around the country. From Chicago, New York. They wanted the opportunity. They wanted to be

on the comedy team. They were scared of her like you are of a leader of comedy. They were scared of her. I just thought she was a nut job. Uh-huh. You know,

because I'd known her since I was like 17 years old. Yeah. She was just a wacky lady. She'd be in the booth. Yeah. You know, and she'd,

hey, get him off, turn the light, yeah, nut job. Uh-huh. You know, and she had all this power.

Yeah. You know, and, you know, and. She says Damon, you and Damon. And so she made us

a comedy team. We would do sketches. We were called Chocolate Moose and we did it for like six weeks. Uh-huh. And she gave us prime time spots for six. Were you getting laughs?

Yeah, big laughs. You know, it was like we were doing sketch comedy. Yeah. And, you know, then we just said, you know.

In the main room? Main room, whatever. And I'm like, all right, that's it. Yeah. You know.

Yeah. Yeah. It didn't whatever. And I'm like, all right, that's it. Yeah. You know. Yeah. It didn't stick. No, we said, we don't want to do this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, we're done. Yeah, yeah. Interesting. Yeah.

But I do notice that you brought a paper. I do say I was talking about this film that I have been trying to get made. It's called Pieces of Strange. Yeah, yeah. It's about a sex addiction. It's in the vein of leaving Las Vegas except the drug of choice is...

Prostitutes. Yeah, sex addiction. And it's based on my old life but it's about a guy who's... He's an auto dealer and he has an auto...

A used auto dealership in Las Vegas and he's trying to maintain a normal life. Yeah. Wife and kids. Wife and kids

and he's a sex addiction. Sex addict. All right. Well, that sounds pretty menacing. Yeah. So we're trying to raise like Yeah. Wife and kids. Wife and kids. And he's a sex addiction, sex addict. Oh, well, that sounds pretty menacing. Yeah. So we're trying to raise like 1.4 mil for it. That's not bad.

Yeah, it's pretty cheap. So like going back to that, so like you're, you know, 20, 21 years old and you're just living the life and you think like, well, this is,

you know, this is Hollywood. This is what we do. This is the 70s. And you're just running around, you know, getting hookers and stuff. You know,

I had girlfriends and stuff, you know, too, you know too you know yeah yeah but so that was the double life element yeah yeah so that's really where because like you know in the language of recovery you know what determines whether you have a problem or not is when your life becomes unmanageable exactly so so like in not having that you know not being a hooker guy and not having that particular addiction in that way you know i've i've experienced my share of porn and and and sort of love addiction but how did how does that start to spiral okay it spiraled be you know it just gets worse and worse you know you start you know you're on the streets and you're cruising for hours or you're really yeah okay or you're yeah or you're you know masturbating yourself into a fucking frenzy yeah yeah you know sure you know pornography and you know there's no

internet then and yeah you know so you got to go to the stores and stores and videotapes videotapes and you know you're sitting there looking at fucking videos for hours yeah yeah and you can't stop and it's really a very depressing life yeah Now it's like these people are on the internet for like fucking 17 hours a day. I know a guy that was deep in and yeah, just they can't get out of the loop. It's really horrible. I mean, it's very depressing. It's very, and it's like, what the fuck is wrong with me? Yeah.

You know, you just sit there and you go, this is not the life I signed up for. You know what I mean? It's interesting when things get away from you. Like, in terms of, like, that particular one, you know, where you do, like, I imagine that, you know, if you're trying to have regular relationships, but you have, you're compelled towards, you know, hookers and porn. Yeah. That there's, how many times did you have to have that conversation with a regular person

who is wanting to have a relationship with you? You don't have that conversation with you you don't have you don't have that conversation because you can't explain it they just know yeah yeah or i mean or if you if you you know you know i had was dating one girl once and i showed her something that i had a magazine she's fucking freaked out they want to have nothing to do with me yeah you know it's like you know and it's like okay then you're going to yourself. This is not, I'm not sane. Yeah, right, right. There's something wrong with me. So you finally hit the wall in 94?

Yeah, and then I was like, you know. What was your bottom? What made you go there? Oh, I'm not talking about that. Okay. What was my bottom? What are you, my fucking therapist? Sure.

Sure. No, actually, I had a conversation with somebody, a comedian, and they were talking about some, I think it was SLA. Yeah, yeah. And I go, what is that? Slap? I go, what does that mean? Slap your meat? What the fuck?

Yeah. Like, you're talking about sex and love. Yeah, yeah. I thought it was slap. Yeah, yeah. No, it's sex and love addicts. Yeah, yeah. I go, oh, I thought it was slap.

He's trying to help you out. Yeah. So I went out to, I went to a meeting of that sex and love addicts anonymous yeah i go oh i thought it was slapping he's trying to help me out yeah no so i went out to the i went to a meeting of that sex and love addicts anonymous yeah and then sometimes i turned to some guy go i thought this was for sex addiction oh no man you don't want this you want saa sex addicts anonymous oh yeah so i go okay i'm getting the fuck out of here yeah i barely lasted in that one meeting so yeah i found a sex addicts anonymous meeting and I went in and I was like, okay, I'm home. So you went and found a room full of seven guys

who were like, no, no, but they're not like that. They look like, you know, you always think that it's like, you're going to look at, you're going to go see some guy like that. I mean, there are a couple of guys, but that look like that.

But the most of them just look like your next door neighbor. Sure. That look like, you know, whoever. Sure. So were you able to, so you figured out what you're sort of like, you know, you were able to put a, figure out your bottom line around sex and not act out.

Yeah, yeah. They have like a program, you know, of what you stay away from. And you're doing it. Yeah. And did it a long time. You did a long time. And you were able to find a from. Yeah, yeah. And da-da-da-da-da. And you're doing it. Yeah. And did it a long time. You did a long time. And you were able to find a relationship. Yeah, I've been married almost 20 years.

Oh, that's great. You have kids? No kids. No kids. No kids. But you worked it out, huh? Yeah. And through that program, though, were you able to sort of track, you know, the evolution

of why you ended up there? Oh, of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you know, you realize, you know, it's all from childhood. Most people that have that addiction have some sort of, not all,

but a lot of them have some sort of sexual abuse-type situation going on. Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure, sure. In most of the, you know, in porn and all that stuff, you know, I remember there used to be these porn stars that would come to the comedy store all the time yeah yeah christy canyon uh uh what was the other one amber lynn used to amber lynn right i remember meeting them and stuff and all talking

to them anything ron jeremy was around oh i used to talk oh god he's in jail now i know i know yeah strange guy i remember i remember he used to have me talk to these- Kind of a bad guy, I guess. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I got stories about him. But anyway, he used to have these girls come on, and I used to like, oh my God, porn stars. Yeah.

I would talk to them, and after, they're hot looking and everything. Yeah. And after I got through talking to them, he was like, oh my God, I don't want to do anything with them. They're just, they were like so depressing and messed up. I remember driving one girl home to her, like her, she was staying at a hotel on Sepulveda Boulevard. I gave her a ride home. She was like so depressed.

She was so sweet though. She was gorgeous. Yeah. But she was so sweet. She said she only did scenes with women for the money. Yeah. I mean, with guys for the money. Yeah.

It was just so sad. Yeah, they're sad people. They're sad. They were all sexually abused. Every single one of them. So I guess at some point, the reason you start to get sober is you kind of, like, that's sort of like an empathetic breakthrough to not objectify somebody and understand the tragedy of it all. Yeah, you understand that you don't want to contribute to that abuse because everyone out there is abused.

I mean, you think people, it's their goal in life to be on the street, you know, sucking off guys in cars. Yeah, yeah. You know, I mean, oh, it's my goal in life. Yeah, yeah. You know, I mean, it's like, you know, I mean, it is all self-absorbed stuff, you know. So are you working through all this too, right?

I mean, you know, you're living this life, but you're doing a lot of voice work and you're doing all this stuff right i mean you know you're you're living this life but you're doing a lot of voice work and you're doing all this yeah i'm still making a living yeah making a living and yeah doing all that shit and you know and you know you you just boy i can't believe i'm talking about this mark well i mean it sort of happens we talk about recovery a lot on this it comes up yeah yeah so do you ever like um do you ever do any live performing anymore you know i haven ever do any live performing anymore? No, I haven't. The live performing I've been doing lately is at people's memorials.

Oh, yeah. Speaking at the memorials and stuff. Who have you done? People we know? Mooney. I did a couple of Moonies. Oh, yeah? Yeah, Moonies. I spoke at his.

Yeah. He had one at the Laugh Factory, but it's a huge thing at the Roosevelt Hotel. They had me speak at it because I was one of his oldest friends really how was that for you that was really great you know um because at least i was one of the one people that knew him very well yeah you know all through his life you know the last last 10 or more years we didn't have much communication but the earlier earlier years, I was one of like, and it was really weird with Paul because Paul, you know, he would do all that racist stuff on stage, you know, about the white man.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was all an act. Yeah. I told him at the laugh factor, I go, this is bullshit. I go, you know, you guys are all thinking, I go, Paul lived in white neighborhoods. Yeah. He had, I never saw one black person at his house. And he's befriending me.

I had no idea how old he was. I mean, his kids were like- The Mooney twins? Yeah, they're like a year younger than me. And I did not know how old Paul was. And he just liked me. He was a great guy and he always kept his word. He put me on the Richard Pryor show. Yeah, now he just liked me. He was a great guy, and he always kept his word. He put me on the Richard Pryor show.

Yeah. Now, tell me about that show. Like, how did that happen? Okay. The Richard Pryor show, that's 1977. It was only four episodes. Yeah. And, you know, Paul, this has never happened in the history of network television.

No one on that cast had to audition. No one. Yeah. It was just given the part. They knew you could do it. And they pulled them all from the comedy store. Yep. It was you, Bernhard, Robin.

Robin Williams, Johnny Witherspoon. Yeah. Tim Reed. Yeah, Tim Reed. Who else? You'd have to look it up. Yeah. Tim Reed. Yeah, Tim Reed. Who else? You'd have to look it up. Yeah. Whatever.

Yeah, a lot of guys. Oh, Vic Dunlap. Oh, yeah, Vic Dunlap. Who passed away. He was a sweet guy. Yeah. Known him since I was 18. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. Those guys, yeah, and we didn't have to audition. Yeah. He just put me in a couple of sketches and, you know, hanging out. Who was writing, Paul and? Paul and Pryor.

Yeah. I don't know who else other writers were. Yeah. And, you know, but it was a lot of fun. It was a good learning experience. And Paul would write the sketch for me or, you know. Yeah. The white guy who wants to be black.

Yeah. They put me in that, you know. That was your part over and over one of the one of the part yeah one of the parts that's funny little sketch in um you know and then i remember i did one sketch and there was like i ad-lib something and i got a huge laugh and it was cut out oh that's happened to me a few times in like in in in in stuff where i got a huge laugh right was that all right upstage somebody and they'll be gone. Right. Was that at CBS?

Where was it? At NBC. At NBC. Yeah. Because I remember watching it pretty recently. Because there was a bunch of stuff of Richard showing up at the show, right? Isn't there like bits and pieces where- It's been so long since I've seen that stuff. Oh, oh, oh.

But that was the first big TV show, right? Yeah, the first thing I did. Yeah, yeah. And Paul, what about that roast? Oh, that roast was insane. I didn't get to be in that. I didn't get to be in that. That seemed like crazy.

I just had small little sketches, like two or three. Right, because that was the roast where- The roast was fucking insane. It's hard to find. It was not television. No! I mean, because they were all talking about him real sweet. And then he gets up there and rips everybody a new fucking.

No, no. Richard. Richard rips everybody a new fucking asshole. Yeah. And it was like, it was un-fucking-believable. Pryor was funny. Richard was just as funny offstage as he was on. Sure.

I mean, just talking to him. Yeah. I mean, he'd make you laugh. Yeah, yeah. I mean, he would do shit. I remember one time we were in the hallway of the comedy store yeah and he starts telling this story about um this white guy that was performing yeah i got this is all coming back to me the people don't know these and okay we're standing in the hallway at the back of the comedy store there and by the phone by the phone yeah okay and richard's telling us this story me i'm

standing there i think mooney's there yeah, and Richard's telling us this story. Me, I'm standing there. I think Mooney's there. Yeah. And he starts telling us this story about some white guy who was auditioning at the Apollo Theater playing guitar. Yeah. Some redneck. Yeah.

He's going, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. My guitar. And he said they didn't like him. They're booing him. And they had the microphone. He said it went down into the floor to get him off. Yeah. And he starts pretending didn't like him. They're booing him. And they had the microphone. He said it went down into the floor to get him off. Yeah. And he starts pretending he's the guy.

And he's singing all the way down to the floor with the microphone. And just the way he did it, it was so fucking funny. Acting it out. Acting it out. And it would just make me laugh so hard. He just made me laugh. Yeah, yeah. Oh, he's great.

He's just hanging out. Yeah, yeah. But I wasn't one of the guys that got to go to his house or anything you know yeah there was a house he had in northwood but you know yeah you know he was the opposite of paul paul had mostly white friends richard i don't really think hung out with too many uh-huh white white dudes yeah white chicks but not white dudes uh-huh but you and paul like you know paul was always interesting you know he had an act but he seemed like a different kind of guy offstage. I can only imagine what he would have been personally.

Very sweet guy. He would scare. He did it on purpose. I know. I saw it. He would scare white guys on purpose. Yeah. And I knew this from the beginning.

So, like, people would say, Joe, you hanging out with Mooney? I'm like, yeah. You know, because, you know, he knew I was a real guy from Detroit. You know, he wouldn't have hung out with me if I wasn't, you hanging out with Mooney? I'm like, yeah. You know, because, you know, he knew I was a real guy from Detroit. You know, he thought I'm not like, he wouldn't have hung out with me if I wasn't, you know. Yeah. So here's a story. I actually told this at the Laugh Factory during the thing.

For one of the first gigs I ever had, paying gigs as a stand-up, I was like, this was before the Richard Pryor show. Yeah. Paul, there was no clubs to play. Right. So Paul was from the Bay Area. Yeah.

You know, and he always pretended like I'm from the ghetto and all this stuff yeah i so he got these little one nighters yeah okay sure and um the little one book them out no no no no no he he booked himself no he booked it for me and him yeah oh okay that he found up in the bay area sure so we drive up he had this this old jaguar that fucking sucked up oil every fucking... I remember the Cadillac. Yeah. He used to drive

Mitzi's Cadillac, that one with the Comedy Store logo on it. Yeah. Oh, go ahead. Okay, so we go up there to the Bay Area. Yeah.

And I stayed at his mom's house. We stayed at his mom's house. Yeah. It's a nicer neighborhood than I ever lived in. Yeah. He's like, you know, he pretended he was like

from the ghetto or something. He's like, it was like, you know, leave it to Beaver Home. Yeah. You they're like in like presidio heights or some shit yeah it was like a really nice neighborhood he's like and his mom looked young as him yeah you know yeah like his sister yeah and um so we go to these gigs and there's this uh um uh comedian and there was this one comedian i'm not gonna say his name because I don't like him Yeah, but he's still an asshole and uh, and he's like he was just starting out. He's like a real cocky fuck Yeah, and Mooney just grabs him and goes no no no you introduced me like this brother. No, no, no

No, and don't say anything don't deviate from what I tell you Okay, yes, mr. Mooney mr. Mooney and then he walks away and Paul goes Joey. Did I scare him? Yes, Mr. Mooney. Yes, Mr. Mooney. And then he walks away and Paul goes, Joey, did I scare him? He goes like this, like that. Yeah.

Because he was always doing that because he didn't like the guy. The guy was a dick. Yeah. And he's still a dick. He's still a dick. And so, and we went and did these little gigs and it was a lot of fun. And I got, I don't even remember what I got paid.

And then on the way back, we went to his grandmother's house and she made us fried chicken. She lived like in Oakland. She made us a big bag of fried chicken. She put it in a paper bag. Yeah. And we're eating the fried chicken on the freeway and throwing the bones out the window on the way back.

Yeah, yeah. And he goes, Joey, give me that bag. Don't eat all that chicken, Joey. It was pretty funny. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, it's interesting that he was able to, to like you know he was like i guess at that point you know learning how to be scary yeah well he was doing that to you but it was just an intimidation thing and he would laugh about it but those guys were you know they just couldn't spot it you know they just were intimidated by well that was it

became his tone his comedic tone was really that yeah well i mean he would do the you know the the the the white man black guy thing and you know i mean he was married to a white lady you know he had one white wife yeah you know yeah yeah i you know i don't know what his private life oh i know all about it seems to be you know a lot yeah yeah but um no no yet you know he was married several times and he had a bunch of different kids a bunch of kids and And what about Robin? Did you have a relationship with Robin? Yeah, well, Robin, I stayed away from the guy.

I mean, he used to steal material. I mean, he stole my material. He stole one of my bits and did it on the Mork & Mindy pilot. Oh, really? Yeah, it was on the pilot. Wow. And I got really pissed. Yeah. And he gave me a check

for 300 and i'll never forget he goes uh don't cash it till tuesday and i was really fucking angry at the wow really angry at the guy did you guys get into a big fight well i didn't i'm not gonna i i don't i'm not physical i'm not a big guy no i know but you know but uh no i just didn't you know i just didn't you know you, it was the fact, you know. He did that a lot then. He stole from a lot of people. Yeah, and he'd just give people checks and think that was okay. But the thing is, he only stole from people that he could get it away from. You didn't see him stealing from George Carlin or, you know.

Oh, you're saying people that no one knew. No one knew or people that needed money. And some people pay their rent just from him stealing their jokes. He'd do their... But the whole thing is, and I talk about this in the book, he would steal jokes. He would steal your joke,

do it on a tonight show, then you'd do your joke, and people think you stole from Robin Williams. Right. That's like, you know, Stephen King doing... You know, comedians, the worst thing you can do to a comedian, as you know, is steal your material.

Yeah. Yeah, especially when the world was that small where it's like, you know, there were worst thing you can do to comedian as you know is steal your material yeah yeah especially when the world was that small where it's like you know there were three tv shows right so like you know people knew every you know millions of people were watching the tonight show right and there's your joke on a tonight show and then you do it in the club and oh you stole robin williams material no fuck you he stole my shit did he ever make it right with you he just gave me a check. Oh, so that was that. And that was it. Yeah.

And then I just like, you know, kind of like stayed away from the guy. After all this is like, you know, the one man show and now you got these books. Tell me about my life with Snoopy. There's a... My life with Snoopy is a book I wrote about my shelter dog. Oh, yeah. It's a... I adopted a shelter dog.

See, I had a real bad problem when I was a little boy. Yeah. I had a puppy when I was 10 years old. His name was Snoopy. Yeah. And my parents took him away from me.

Yeah. Who does that to a kid, a 10-year-old boy? Why'd they take him away? They just said, well, you can't feed him or something. They made some bullshit excuse.

I was devastated. Can you imagine if you have a puppy? They give you a puppy, and then they tell you, we're taking it away. Is this what led to the sex addiction and everything? Oh, no, more than that. More than that. Horrible shit. So at the age of 40, I adopted this dog from the Burbank Animal Shelter.

And the book is called My Life with Snoopy. Yeah. How One Shelter Dog's Love Changed a Man's Life and Other Tales of Adventure. It's about my 13-year relationship because when he died, it was like my kid died.

Yeah. You know, it's like you and your cats. Yeah. You know, it was like- I was devastated. I was suicidal.

Oh. So I wrote this book about him and it's all my adventures with him. That's sweet. It's a very kid-friendly book. That's sweet. My autobiography is not very kid-friendly book. That's sweet. My autobiography is not a kid-friendly book, but The Life of Snoopy is. And what's this video with The Life of Snoopy?

No, that's the audio book. Oh, it's just the audio book. Yeah, on CDs. Oh, well, when did you do that? After I wrote the book, I did it on audio. Well, when did you write the book? How long ago? That was 2013.

Oh, you got a new dog? No, I haven't got a dog since. Really? I know I was so devastated. It's like I'm scared. You know, I should get another dog. Yeah. I know.

You should. So what do you spend your days doing? Joey. Voiceover. Yeah. You know, writing. Yeah. Trying to get this movie made.

And trying to get this movie made. Yeah, I get this movie made. So if you know anybody with 1.4 million wants to make a sex addiction movie, just let me know. Oh, we'll put our feelers out there. We'll put our movie made. Yeah, get this movie made. So if you know anybody with 1.4 million who wants to make a sex addiction movie, just let me know. We'll put our feelers out there. We'll put our feelers. Yeah, no, it's been challenging. Yeah.

You know, it's just, it's different, it's good. I've been writing screenplays for a very long time. Yeah. You know. And you sold a few and that never got made? Just options and that got made. You know, that kind of thing. You show business.

You show business. You know, I mean, you've written, you've written i mean so you know yeah well i mean it's just interesting like to talk to a guy you know like you know where you know you're a big comic for a long time and then but you know show businesses there's a million different things that we do yeah yeah it's like it's a great story because i talked like you know who i talked to you remember billy braver yeah yeah and that was not the greatest story. It was a little sad, you know? But like you, you just keep chipping away. You seem well.

No, I'm doing great. I mean, I feel great. You know, I mean, it's show business. I chose it. You know what I mean? I could have been a stockbroker making a lot of money, but I don't want to do that shit. Yeah, yeah. Of course not.

Well, I'm glad we did this. It was great talking to you. You too. All right. Thank you for having me. Yeah. That was Joey Kamen. Interesting.

Glad I got a chance to talk to him. For all Marc Maron-related things, go to WTFpod.com slash tour. If you want to know the tour dates, now I'm going to play my new guitar in the same old way that I always play the guitar. Yeah, that's what I do. Thank you. Boomer lives. Monkey. Lafonda.

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