WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1343 - Atsuko Okatsuka

Episode Date: June 27, 2022

Comedian Atsuko Okatsuka has familiarity with garages. But unlike Marc, she didn’t start a podcast in one. She lived in one with her mother and grandmother for seven years, as three generations of immigrant women dealt with cramped quarters, eating disorders and schizophrenia. Atsuko tells Marc how she was unaware as a young girl that her trip from Japan to America was going to become permanent and how her discovery of standup comedy helped her find her voice. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

It's winter, and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost almost anything. So no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats. But meatballs, mozzarella balls, and arancini balls? Yes, we deliver those. Moose? No. But moose head? Yes. Because that's alcohol, and we deliver that too.

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nicks what's happening i'm mark maron this is my podcast welcome to it uh look i know how you're doing you're terrible it's awful it's fucking happening it's one thing to know something's going to happen no matter how awful it is knowing that it's going to happen eventually and then it happens there's always some part of the brain that holds out hope for something that wants to believe something will work out, that wants to believe that it will be OK. It's not OK. With the overturning of Roe v. Wade, it puts over half of the population of our country in a position where they have lost the constitutional right to their physical autonomy. They no longer can take ownership of their bodies. This is part of the Christo-fascist white nationalism that is taking over the country.

If you look at the states, a lot of state governments have been radicalized by either white nationalists or Christian white nationalists or just flat out grifters who want a piece of this action. And this is just the beginning. This is not we went back in time or America has regressed. This is the beginning of what the future looks like. And I know there are people that are like, hey, man, but it'll just be a state issue there'll be states you can you can get abortions and there are people that are like it only affects a certain age of woman it affects all women and all men all citizens of the country that such a large group an entire gender has been denied their rights they're no longer free i mean it's arguable that most of us aren't, but in this way, in this very public way, and on paper and in law, women are no longer free in this country. And look, I don't love having to

speak this way, but it's horrendous. And there's not a lot of men speaking about it, which is baffling to me because almost every man who's got any game or has lived a life has paid for one of those things. They're certainly in support of choice. People say, speak out, it's time. It was time years ago. We knew this was coming. We knew it was possible. That guy was elected.

This is what happens. But right now, I just feel heartbroken and despairing and scared and angry that it's happening. This is what a Christo-fascist white nationalistic government is going to look like. And it's only going to get worse. Who the fuck knows how much worse? And we should be angry. I feel terrible, and I feel terrified. That's where I'm at.

I don't know about funny. I don't know about funny. But I do know that more than half the population has been denied their rights. That's policy. How far does it go? So, well, let's do a show. I need to do the show. Today I talked to Otsuko Akatsuka.

She's a comedian. She's a stand-up who works here in L.A. as well as a writer. I've seen her around. I've seen her. I met her. Where'd I meet her? I met her backstage at the comedy store. She's been at Largo. She opens for Birbiglia. She's on YouTube. You can go see a viral video of her doing standup at the ice house in Pasadena when an earthquake hit. It's pretty entertaining. She, she, she stayed in the saddle and, and, and rift and kept people calm. But she's also a very interesting story. It's a heavy story. It's not the usual story. And she's a very interesting person. And I talked to her before the striking down. I guess it's called the Dobbs decision of the striking down of Roe v. Wade.

So that doesn't come up. But it was good. It was great to talk to her. It kind of unfolded nicely. How are you? Everybody good? I hope you're good. I hope you have been buying some nice melons and enjoying your food and at least finding some solace in the life you're living in your immediate environment. You know, it's really a difficult thing, the idea of hope and the idea of just plodding through, living in difficult times, living in times where it doesn't seem like

anything is going to get better or anything is going to change for the better. So what does one do? How much do you internalize it? What do you do with that? What actions do you take? How do you keep fighting? How do you maintain hope? How do you not fall into yourself? How do you not allow yourself to be bullied or killed by the other side? People who don't believe this shit should be able to live with the same

freedoms as people that do. This is not the way this country was supposed to go. But ultimately, there's going to be a lot of people dying unnecessarily because they don't want the child they're carrying. There's going to be a lot of people dying unnecessarily because the child can't be taken care of. There's going to be a lot of new drug addicts, new mentally ill people, new people with compromised capacity because there's no place for them in the world. But these fuckers are willing to hedge their bets like that. Through force. Through denying rights.

I'm sorry if this was heavy. No, I'm not. I'm not sorry it was heavy. But it's not a good lead-in to my guest. And I want to respect her too. This woman is very smart. She's very funny. She's interesting.

She's unique. And it was exciting to talk to her. So this is me talking to Otsuko Okatsuka. I should say that she's going to be performing at Largo in Los Angeles here in Los Angeles on July 18th for her Otsuko and Friends show along with Fred Armisen and Margaret Cho. And this is us talking. This is us doing the thing. It's hockey season and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, This is us talking. This is us doing the thing. Chicken tenders, yes, because those are groceries, and we deliver those too, along with your favorite restaurant food, alcohol, and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now.

For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer.

I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Schizophrenia. Yeah, we spelled it.

Schizophrenia. You did it on your own. No, I did not. Okay, okay. You did two H's. Yeah, I was not even heading in the right direction. Really? Well, I had S-C-H.

Yeah. And I had I. But then I threw a T in there. So I didn't go directly to Z. Oh. So that didn't work. You threw a T in there, yeah. And then bingo, what's his name? Like schizophrenia as opposed to schizophrenia.

Right. Yeah. And you said it's because it's in somebody's book title? It's a title book. It's a title of a book that I talked about with Kate Berlant. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a book called A Thousand Plateaus. It's a philosophy, cultural criticism book that's very dense. And it came up in conversation and someone emailed me about the book that I was talking about.

And she thought it was another book. So I needed to prove her wrong. Got you. No, of course. I understand. Yeah, I wouldn't stand for it. You look like you were in the middle of being like, no, I've got to let them know I'm right. Yeah, exactly.

When I first approached you. Yeah, you felt that? Well, no, I actually thought you were thinking about me. Yeah. I thought you were thinking about my mom. But I didn't know that at all. How would I have known that? Is that well documented that your mother is schizophrenic?

I mean, I've been talking about it more recently. Oh would I have known that? Is that well documented that your mother is schizophrenic? I mean, I've been talking about it more recently. Oh, really? So it's not like well documented. It's not like in a documentary. Yet. I made a documentary about it, but it's just like on my YouTube. It was just for film school. It's not.

Oh, really? It's not like a. So it's been a while since she's been diagnosed. Yeah. Since I was 20. 20s, I think. Yeah? Yeah, something like that. Well, I mean, I don't like, it's so weird because we can definitely talk about that.

But I didn't know you. I don't know how I didn't know you. But I think I'm missing a whole generation. No, I get it. Yeah, no, but for some reason I thought maybe like your producer or somebody. It was just weird happenstance that my mother has schizophrenia no and the first thing you say to me is how do you spell schizophrenia you know how am I not gonna think it's about me I know but but because you did now I have this

information that we're gonna talk about but I thought we'd lead up to it I don't I don't know we don't I don't know if we need to open we don't have schizophrenic. Oh, we don't have to at all. That's why we opened with the book and the fact that you're right about whatever you were telling this person. I did. I showed that lady. I showed her. Yeah, you freaking showed her. I don't even know who you're writing.

I don't either. It just came through the website. Oh, yeah. It was just a website email. I love that you take your time to write people back. You do that. Only when I have to prove that I'm right about something. Okay, if it angers you. Well, I know.

She just brought up another book and I don't even know if I talked about the book she was talking about. And I don't always respond to people on the, even if they anger me, I try to let that go. But this woman was just being earnest. She wasn't a bad person. She was a smart person that thought we might have been talking about the book

that she wanted us to be talking about. I don't think we were. Do you respond to shitty people? I do. Probably way too much. You still do? Yeah, I've tried to take a break from it. My husband helps me sort of like figure out, filter out social

media folk. He's an actor? I've seen him on some of your stuff. Is he an actor? He's an actor. He's an artist. He paints as well some of your stuff is he an actor he's an actor he's an artist he paints as well uh and he must yeah he paints yeah abstract or uh figurative yeah i guess abstract portraits of like he loves human faces he loves doing faces but you can identify that their faces yes yeah they're not really abstract they're just oh you're right yeah you know some i always try to put meaning in abstract anyway. I don't like it when I don't get something. Do you?

Do you like it? To be left out? Yeah, I hate that. But you know, it's the art world and you're supposed to get it. They're the worst. The art world is like a very insulated world. They have to be that way. Or else it won't sell. To justify their existence, they have to be sort of a

Little arrogant and and do things that we won't understand the more you're confused the more you'll buy I think it's not just our world that works with a lot of other things not with comedy. I think some people Might actually oh yeah, because they don't get it. They're like this person's a genius. I don't get it. I know so Mmm, I actually think so. You know how they always say like, oh, you know, if people hate you, they also look you up

and that bumps you up too, you know, and that gets you booked. Yeah, I don't know. You ever hear that? Sure. All press is good press. Right, that kind of thing.

The more people are confused about like, why him or why her, you know, the more sometimes they buy into your stuff. I didn't find that with me. That was not my-

Oh, I'm not saying that's me either. That was not my journey. When people didn't like me, it did not help me. But you had to be confusing too, Mark. It's because you made sense. I think I was just angry. It's because you made sense. I was just angry.

I think it was confusing that like they thought I was angry and I think I genuinely was angry. I think I was- Yeah, but that makes sense that makes sense as long as you make sense to me. Yeah, what you're trying to say Yeah, but should be funny work comedians. It should be fun and funny, too Yeah, yeah, I don't think a lot of people thought I was funny. I think you're very funny. Oh, thank you And and you know you you're you're not it's not confusing In the sense that like no she's you, trying to be funny and she's being funny. I was so scared of being confusing, you know, I think. Yeah. Yeah. Because you always think like, oh, maybe I'm not relatable because it's so I'm so specific, you know.

Oh, you know, if you felt like an outsider growing up or something. Yeah. I think that is a, you know, a thought you have when you get, you know, find the arts or something. I hope I make sense, you know a thought you have when you get you know find the arts or something I hope I make sense you know yeah yeah I think that's true though because I felt awkward I felt like an outsider but not ethnically I just felt like an outsider because I was uncomfortable uh-huh oh and that's legit too you know I guess that's why a lot of us do it because we're just sort of like we don't fit in right and then you then you hope it makes sense. Yeah. And so, you know, then there's like anti-comedy movements where it's like, I'm supposed to not make sense.

I'm not quite there with that kind of stuff yet because it's like, I just started making sense. I think that's behind you. I think that's something you do before you make sense. Oh, really? Sure. Yeah. Like experimental getting weird?

Right. I think it's sort of, it's a way of figuring out who you are. I don't think it's, you need to commit to that. I know very few people that commit to that as a life. Oh, sure, sure.

You know, you can be weird because you don't quite need to be funny, yet you don't want to fail. Right. So you're just sort of, I'm just too weird. Right, being weird. But don't you think you

have to be normal first to be weird no sadly or not normal but um have the foundation you know to be an experimental dancer or a poet or right right you have to have the foundation yeah no i but i i don't know that that happens much i who like do you have people in your mind right now that are like sort of like well that person's weird on purpose and doing a thing i i can only think of maybe one oh sure for as for like comedy yeah well you know i'm talking about like with anti-comedy i mean like the eric andres i guess you know oh okay or maybe like meg stalter i don't know if you know her i do i just she yeah she was the youtube or a tikt TikTok person that's now on Hacks. She plays the secretary on Hacks.

Yes. Yeah. And her influence is someone like Kate Berlant. But I watched Berlant because I was iffy about her. And I didn't really know her or what her work was. But when you watch her stand up, she's clearly doing stand up. She makes sense to me. Yeah.

Yeah. I totally get where it's going. But it's jokes and it's a persona. And there's a doing stand she makes sense to me yeah yeah i totally get but it's jokes and it's a persona and you know they're a laugh there's timing to it there are laughs a hundred percent and eric andre i think is a a funny person but he's doing something that's sort of i don't know if it's anti-comedy i think it's more sort of uh extreme comedy it's kind of it's sure it's extreme yeah what's extreme like like x like x t r e m e extreme like push it to the limit where things blow up and i may hurt myself right right right sort of punk rock it's kind of like jackass sure sure sure sure yeah i mean extreme comedy but i you know when you say extreme comedy i'm like i am dying laughing because it's like the funniest thing.

It can't get any funnier. That's why you call it extreme. Well, I think I was using extreme in the way that they use it for like exports. Yeah. When people land on their head. Not for the audience experience, but for what's happening. Right. Because someone might get injured.

Yeah. Something like that. Usually the performer. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. And maybe the audience too. Yeah. But I that. Usually the performer. Sure, yeah, yeah. And maybe the audience too. Yeah, but I know what you're saying.

I guess it's anti-comedy, but I think anti-comedy is more like Neil Hamburger. Sure, there's Neil, yeah. Neil's like anti-comedy. Right, right. That's essentially what he's trying to do. And props, oh my gosh, I know. And then the commitment to it, right? Yeah, I can only, you know,

for me, it's like the more honest someone is i really really really i'm so drawn to that yeah me too i can't like i have a hard time with people that don't show themselves yeah yeah and i you know maybe you know sue us but i i agree that's what would drew me into the arts anyway right it is it's? It is, yeah. When did you start watching? It's not clear to me your path. Yeah, no, I totally get it. I totally understand because I had just figured out my path too. Because when I said that, I didn't know who you were.

I mean, you clearly had been working. I just realized you existed recently because I saw that you were opening for Mike somewhere. Oh, yeah. Burbiglia. But you weren't really on my radar. But that doesn't mean that you're not popular. Because I'm slowly becoming an old man and I'm sort of insulated. I don't know what's going on out there.

And you're busy as hell. Yeah. But you've been doing it a long time already, right? I have. Yeah. You've been doing it a long time already, right? I have, yeah. And, you know, it was really the pandemic that allowed me to sort of, like, figure out, you know, things.

And I was, you know, everything was locked down, so I went online more. You know, I went online more. I had been doing stand-up for 11 years. And, you know, with some breaks in between, I went to art school in between. Really? You know. So where do you come from, though, originally? Like, what's the origin story? I see parts of it, but it sounds exciting.

It sounds like there might have been drama. Yeah, there was drama, for sure. Why? Because we started with schizophrenia. Well, schizophrenia, I know your grandmother brought you up. I know that you ran away or something from somewhere. No, for sure. Yeah. See, you already from somewhere. No, for sure. Yeah.

See, you already got it. Well, not really. But I mean, but you were like, your name's Japanese, right? Yeah, my name's Japanese. I'm half Taiwanese. So I was born in Taiwan. I grew up in Japan. How's that work?

So why were you born in Taiwan? I was born there because I have an uncle who's an OBGYN. So my mom's brother pulled me out of her, you know. Okay. It's a discount. My family loves a discount. Of course. Doctors know doctors.

For sure. It's just like, well, he's going to do it for free. But did he do it at the house? At the hospital. Okay. Well, that's good. Isn't that cool? With all the goods, you know.

Yeah. With all the tools he needed. It's better like even he's a family member but it could have been just like we don't need to do at the hospital let's just do it at the house yeah no no no hook us up with all the stuff oh good and the meds you know yeah and i'm still shy around that uncle you know it's just first day you're shy yeah of course i don't think your mother would be shy they're that's for them to figure out sure funny brother daughter sister brother daughter brother sister dynamic um and so that's why i was born there also my mother's side is all taiwanese

but were you were your parents living in japan at the time and they came back to do that yeah they came back to do that yeah my my father is japanese and he is in japan and he he stayed there while all that happened my mom and dad sort of got put together via my grandma there was this like service my Taiwanese grandma okay the one that you live with no one yeah the one that I'm close with yeah she put your parents together yeah she answered this ad on in the newspaper yeah in Japan. It was like this romantic, almost like a game show. We're going to put people together romantically.

We need contestants. And so my grandma signed my mom up. Okay. So she didn't know your dad? No. Yeah. She didn't know my dad. Okay.

Yeah. She, in weird ways, because she signed my mom up for this't. Yeah. She didn't know my dad. So she, yeah, she in weird ways, you know, because she signed my mom up for this program. Yeah. Is the reason why my mom and dad met. And so your dad was another contestant? He was, yeah. He was a male contestant looking for love. And my mom was a female contestant looking for love.

But at this point, your mother had not become mentally ill yet no no she hadn't yeah but my grandma knew something was wrong with my mom you know yeah hence saying signing her up in japan another country a place you don't even speak the language of you know what i mean yeah she was just like this bitch is in her 30s something's wrong with her you know at the time that's all you needed right was to be bitch is in her 30s. Something's wrong with her. You know, at the time, that's all you needed, right? Was to be a woman in your 30s. Yeah. With no boyfriend.

Yeah. What's the problem? So your grandmother thought I got to get rid of her. She's mentally ill. Yeah. Yeah. She was mentally ill. She was.

She wasn't so wrong. But yeah. So that's what. And that worked? Did they have to go on TV and stuff? Did it happen on television? I believe it was filmed. It's sort of like this weird shame that my family has around this.

Around your parents? Around the way they met, yeah. Both sides? It's shameful? Both sides, yeah. Oh, no. Yeah. And so I don't actually know the full story.

That's why it's kind of iffy with what exactly happened. So your mom went to Japan. My mom went to Japan. You met your father they just got married immediately or they they went on like three dates after they met through this program yeah and then uh and then you know quickly was like look we need to figure out green card stuff we get along you know yeah and got married yeah and how And how long did that last? Oh, a year. You know, you got,

they were talking to each other in broken English. You know, they didn't speak each other's language. He only spoke, she spoke Taiwanese and he spoke Japanese. No one was going to learn the other one, but they did have you. They did have me, yeah. I mean, you know, lust.

Lust is universal. Of course. So your mom's pregnant and she goes back to Taiwan, has you, and then you go back to Japan? That's right, yeah. And, but your parents

only lasted a year so your mom brought you up in Japan? Yeah, so it was my mom and grandma and then they had joint custody with my dad so I would go

to his place sometimes or sometimes I would just be with my mom and grandma. But your grandma moved to Japan? Yeah, my grandma moved to Japan. So, my grandma moved to Japan. So no one knew how to speak Japanese?

My grandma sort of knew some from when she was younger because Taiwan was occupied by Japan. Oh, that's interesting. So you're right. There is a lot of drama. Like earlier when you gave the quick summary of my life, you said something about Japan, something about running away. You were correct

yeah this is just like the the long version of it obviously um but it's like a history i don't know like i like i don't know that japan occupied taiwan before yeah it's a whole ass thing and then now china's got it and it's about to shift yeah right so taiwan yeah when people ask me what's happening with taiwan the easiest way to explain it is kind of like what Ukraine is going through right now with Russia. Could happen. Could happen, right, with China. Yeah, so it's like a similar thing. Taiwan's been occupied by various people before, like the Dutch or Japan. How long ago was it Japanese? Oh, just in like the 40s.

Right, because that's like it was Japanese when it got known for making all the electronics. Oh, yeah. Like made in Taiwan. That was when it was Japanese. Yes. Probably. Right? Yeah.

Well, so like World War II, it was part of Japan and all that. Interesting. Yeah. So this is stuff like an educated person should know, but I do not. No, you kind of knew. Your eyes lit up. I'm just putting it together. You were like, made in Taiwan.

I've heard of it. Well, yeah, of course. I saw it. I saw it happen. It was a thing. Yeah. But I'm just putting together that it wasn't that long ago that it was Japanese. Right, right.

For sure. Yeah. So your grandmother had some Japanese in her. Right. She had some Japanese in her. So my mom had learned a few words, too, you know. And the characters, the Chinese characters and Japanese characters can sort of translate. Do you speak both?

I do speak both. Yeah. Yeah. They're very different, though, aren't they? They're very different. I always say with Japanese, how Yoda speaks is actually how Japanese works. It really is. Oh, you mean the structure of the sentences?

A hundred percent. That's why it's difficult, though. Imagine talking like that all the time. I don't know. Now that you know English, Mark, right? I barely have a handle on English. Yeah, me too. If you were to ask me, like,

you know, simple grammar questions, I probably could not answer. I could do verb, noun, adverb, adjective. Yeah. But that's it it that's pretty good that's all you need to know and then and and to how to and to how you know you know how to communicate i you know i can in the highest i can talk good not just that in the highest form to

talk comedically right that is you've excelled at a language right but what i'm saying is that i think the reason why i was never able to really learn other languages is i have a hard time with grammar structure right and i think it's sort of there's a mathematics to language that if you have a grasp on it is sort of a gateway to understanding other languages that you you're a hundred percent right yeah yeah no that's true sometimes you blow my mind slowly like i'm like oh, I see what you're saying. And then I'm like, boom, oh, my God. Right.

What happens then? How long did you live in Japan? I lived there until I was 10. And then what happened was, so my grandma, I'm starting to realize, my grandma's always sort of like created this like cult of three people, me, my mom, and grandma. It's always me, my mom, and grandma. Three generations. Three generations of women. Have you seen Grey, and grandma. It's always me, my mom, and grandma. Three generations.

Three generations of women. Have you seen Grey Gardens? Yeah. That's our family. But add another woman, you know, and make it immigrant. A Japanese Grey Gardens? Pretty much. I'd like to see that.

Yeah, it's messed up. Japanese, Chinese, or Taiwanese Grey Gardens? Yeah. Who's got the big house? Oh, my gosh. I mean, but with a smaller house, yeah. Okay. We lived in a small, we lived in my uncle's.

Are there raccoons in there there were hamsters birds wild hamsters i mean they don't live in the wild do they we're we're sophisticated enough we went to the pet store got nice hamsters but do you like japan seems like i've never been there i've actually been to china but i've never been to japan and i think i i should go see see Japan it seems amazing to me yeah you remember pretty good do you go back I go back and I go back to Taiwan more than Japan I have less family in Japan now there's drama you know my mom marrying into the family my mom being Taiwanese Japan is very xenophobic actually so, you mean there's drama on your dad's

family side because your mom was from Taiwan? Because my mom was from Taiwan because they missed their actual mother. My mom was the stepmom coming in, you know, and I already had... Oh, the father had

kids? My dad already had kids from a previous marriage. Huh. And then my dad signed up for this program and then suddenly was getting married so quickly, you know. So my half-brother and half-sister who were already teenagers. Right. You know, they're also teenagers. When you're teenagers, you're just already like, who is this new woman?

Right. So you have these older half-siblings. They're like way old, right? Yeah, they're older. Like my age? Oh, no. Yeah, a little younger, you know, a little younger. But they were skeptical, you know.

They were like, she doesn't even speak your language. Is this just for lust? You know, you met her on a program. And then my mom, after she had me, is actually when she started showing signs of schizophrenia. So she was throwing temper tantrums, hallucinating things stopping birthday parties you know so so then your dad's family's like told you yeah yeah what do you yeah exactly told you and we don't like that side of the family was it like postpartum too or i bet i bet postpartum really triggered it triggered she was keeping it in check because

like schizophrenia i think it has a is onset in your 20s yes is that how old she was so it's younger for men like uh it could be even 18 to 20s for men yeah for women it's 20s and 30s my mom was in her 30s so that's really when it started but she wasn't actually diagnosed till you know i was like in my 20s wow you just thought she was weird yeah i was like oh maybe it's a taiwanese thing no i mean i you know i didn't have i watched a lot of disney movies growing up and they never have moms in them yeah so is that true yeah i think about all the princesses they all have moms in them. Yeah. So. Is that true? Yeah. Think about all the princesses. They all have dads. No moms.

And stepmoms. I never thought about it. But no moms. No moms. Oh. I guess it's part of the mythology. They all died in childbirth. Yeah.

A hundred percent. And so I didn't know how moms were supposed to be. I just thought maybe this is how mothers are. You know, they throw things and they see things. That's why they're not in Disney movies? Oh, yeah. I was like, mm-hmm, it makes sense. It's just me and Disney out there sharing the same life.

Why would they put this character in a Disney movie? What, like just a mom with schizophrenia? Yeah. That's why representation matters, Mark. I know, it does. So we've got to fight for it. We need schizophrenic Asians in more Disney movies. Yeah, 100%. Yeah, maybe the Mulan part four.

Fight for it. But what did you, so you didn't run away from Japan. How did the exodus happen? know, because there was drama with the Japanese side of the family and my mom's, you know, hallucinations were flaring up even more. What were they? Well, you know, so always thinking that we were under attack by our neighbors. They were sent by the Taiwanese government. And this continues. This continues. Yeah. Till this day. Yeah. Right.

For sure. And so and then my mom got sort This continues, yeah. Till this day, yeah. Right. For sure. And so, and then my mom got sort of suicidal, actually. And so my grandma had made a plan for us to move to the United States. All you need is a relative, right? Somewhere. Yeah. All of us. Yeah, all you need is a relative somewhere and that's where you move.

I mean, that's probably how your family ended up here, right? Because, like, don't you have, like, aren't you, like, Ukrainian and Polish or something? Well, that's where the roots are. But, like, don't you have like, aren't you like Ukrainian and Polish or something? Well, that's where the roots are. But like, you know, I don't think so. I think like, you know, the Jews were actively running from things. Sure. Of course. Yeah.

A hundred percent. And like, I'm not sure. Yeah. I think just the knowledge that there were other Jews there was probably enough. But I don't. But mine were here. Most of my family was here before World War II, to be honest with you. So I don't, I don't, I don't know. You don't know if there was like an uncle already here.

There might've been. You know, or even again, even if it's like other Jews are there. Sure. That's enough. Maybe they'll hook me up with a job. Yeah. Taiwanese community. For sure.

Yeah. And so my grandma happened to, one of her sons already moved to LA. So. One of your uncles? One of my uncles, not the doctor right computer engineer he had come to la and and was like sure come over so my but my grandma told me we were coming here for just a two-month vacation yeah yeah just a summer vacation two months did you get along with your dad i did i actually did i have a good relationship with my dad but i was sort of torn from him because i packed lightly you know when someone says you're

you're going to la for a summer yeah you're not bringing you're just bringing a carry-on bag all your toys and also i'm like 10 years old i don't have that much shit so i you know i come over and then you know two months turns into a few months and then turns into a year. How did they sell you that? Every time I try to mention it to my grandma, I was like, Grandma, it's been three months now. She'd be like, she would shush me

because she didn't want my mom to hear because my mom was pissed off about this plan too. And she was just afraid of her temper tantrums flaring up. So I just never got to openly talk about it. I just had to sort of keep it inside that I was now stuck in the United States. Were you talking to your dad?

I was. I was starting to write him letters telling him, hey, I think we're staying here. And he was heartbroken too because he didn't quite know about the plan either. My grandma had plotted this thing. She just thought we'd have a better life here. You know, she was like, maybe your mom's voices will go away.

Maybe it's Japan that's triggering the schizophrenia, you know? Because she felt isolated. Yeah. She's like, you know, we're Taiwanese there. Japan don't like it if you're other Asian. But your dad's family didn't seem to like her. Right, as well as that, yeah. So, you know, they were just like, it's Japan.

You just, we need to move. It's not us, it's Japan. So if we move locations, it'll be better. You know, and when we came to LA, we were like, we're freaks here too. You know? Where'd you end up first? West Los Angeles.

Yeah. Where's that? So that's where, like, there's a, there's an area called Little Osaka where it's, it's got a bunch of Japanese restaurants and grocery stores in the west side of Los Angeles. Yeah. So, you know, there's. I always see signs like that. And I always wonder if they still hold, you know, like, you know, little Armenia.

Oh, sure. Like a Filipino town. Yeah. Filipinoipino town yeah i wonder too are they are they still like they're like what justifies that still being that yeah one filipino family we've been here for a long time yeah well we have the grocery store you know everyone else started building stuff around us everything's charcoal lattes now well i know but like little armenia they all moved out here uh-huh a lot of them oh sure to glendale yeah no of course yeah yeah but i've talked to armenians who are like yeah my family started over there in the army yeah and then who's there now i don't know there's got to be a few there's probably a church and there's probably a restaurant that they still go to sure sure, sure. Just to like get props. But I think they've been here for a long time. Mm-hmm.

For sure. So Little Osaka? Yeah, so it's like Little Osaka. Was there actual stuff there? Yeah, there were actual Japanese grocery stores, karaoke spots. They're probably still there. They are.

Yeah, they are. They kept that going. If it has enough nightlife, even are they kept yeah, they kept that going Yeah, if it has enough like nightlife, you know when even if the neighborhood changes people will continue going sure You know what I'm saying? And then the white people come and they'll still they love karaoke. Yeah, they love a nightlife thing Right like or or like oh my god. This is so different. Yeah anything that's kind of different enough that white people aren't scared of sure It'll keep going you know the business will stay open yeah through gentrification yeah and so um yeah and so that's that's where we ended up in my uncle's garage he let us stay there and then we were undocumented

all three of you were in the garage all three of us like i'm just single twin beds we should have started a podcast you're too bad it wasn't happening yet. Can you imagine? You think we could have been a hit? What, with a 10-year-old who was displaced and a schizophrenic mom and your grandma who was holding everything together? Yeah, yeah. And we call it WTF. Yeah.

There's still time, it seems like. You could do that podcast. Couldn't you? Don't you use your grandma? Doesn't she have an Instagram handle? She's on Twitter. She has 17,000 followers. On Twitter.

Yeah, which is a lot. It is a lot. For just an 86-year-old who wants nothing to do. Does she just do it? Or you do it for her? Well, so sometimes she'll be like, I have an idea. Can you do this thing? And then she tweets the rest of the time. What is her Twitter?

Well, it's atsukosgrandma. It's atsukosgrandma. Yeah. So you're in the garage, undocumented. We're in the garage, undocumented. But what does that mean? You had passports to get here, but you just never signed up to get any type of visa? We had, yeah, we had Japanese.

I had a Japanese passport, but Grandma a jap i had a japanese passport my grandma my mom had a taiwanese passport and we just went to uh yeah we had a visa just a tourist visa so it's like yeah you're allowed in la for two months kind of thing oh okay and then we were like how are we staying here you know and what happened how that how'd that get resolved? Yeah, so it was through the visa lottery program. My grandma kept pretending we were living in Japan still, and she would apply us every year. She is a plotter. She is a liar. The mastermind.

She's my best friend. I probably have Stockholm syndrome. She pretty much kidnapped me. Yeah, you do. She's a mastermind behind all of us moving here, you know? And so she kept pretending we lived in Japan, submitted our names every year. And then on the seventh year, all of our names got drawn to get the green card. Seven years.

Seven years. Undocumented, but you never got into trouble. Every year we were denied. Never got into trouble. That's why I didn't really know I was undocumented. Yeah. gone into trouble that's why i didn't really know i was undocumented yeah undocumented folks can actually do a lot of things that american like people with citizenships can sure you know can do like there's a lot of people aren't asking questions or they didn't used to before it got

more dicey for sure yeah like we could go to the library we could go to public schools but did they have jobs did your mom have a job or I guess they didn't have a job. So, I mean, my grandma worked some babysitting gigs, stuff that's under the table. Yeah. How were you getting by? My uncle, who's a doctor, sort of supported us. As long as he stayed in the garage?

We stayed in the garage. As long as you, yeah. Just don't get seen, okay? Don't get found out and I'll feed you. So this is another uncle here? There's another uncle here, yeah. It's not the computer guy. The uncle here is the computer guy.

The computer guy helped us, you know, put us up in his garage. Okay. The doctor uncle pulled me out of my mom. Oh, but he's in Taiwan. He's in Taiwan, yeah. Oh, but he was helping out. He would send money. Oh, that's nice. He. He's in Taiwan. Oh, but he was helping out. He would send money. Oh, that's nice.

He would send money, yeah. Where's your mom now? My mom lives with my grandma, like 20 minutes away from me and my husband. They're in Arcadia, which is like a little past Pasadena. Yeah, sure, Arcadia. In a very Asian part of town. Yeah, that's where the seafood restaurants are. Yes, yeah.

Yeah, they're good, right? They are good. Do you go there? I haven't gone there. No, I used to go to the one downtown um but i don't i haven't gone to one of those um asian seafood places in a long time yeah i mean it's a it's it's a thing yeah it's a thing it's a track you have to like make a day out of it you know and then you kind of sit there and they just keep rolling food around it's not good for me because i just if there's food i'll want to eat it yeah they just keep

coming by with the carts so you want want to stop. I can't stop. And I never feel good when I leave. Really? I have a good time for a while, but then I'm like, stop. Oh, no. I didn't know you battled with that. I'm just kidding. I do.

Oh, okay. Yeah, because they'll come by and I'm like, what's in that one? They're like, Chinese broccoli. I didn't get any Chinese broccoli. Right. You're like, I want that too. Yeah. What are those?

Oh, this is a dessert. Can we eat it in the middle of the meal the sesame balls yeah those giant sesame balls with the the red bean yeah yeah so you do like this kind of food well you should go with like 10 people then you can really get like a bite of everything spread it out yeah that's a whole ass plan so i can see why you're not always going so okay so okay. So you're there. You're in the garage. When do you move out of the garage though? I move out of the garage when I'm 18. Oh no, that's a long time. Yeah, no.

Honestly, a garage is not enough space to hold three generations of women and their issues. For that long? Seven years. Yeah. That's crazy. It's too much. It doesn't, schizophrenia.

I had an eating disorder in the seventh grade. It is not enough space to hold all of that. You know what I mean? We were on top of each other. You had an eating disorder in the seventh grade. It is not enough space to hold all of that. You know what I mean? We were on top of each other. You had an eating disorder too? I had an eating disorder. I was like, you know. Trying to throw up and everyone was around?

Yeah, my grandma's on top of me trying to wash her vegetables. And then my mom's going through menopause also on top of me. You know, trying to do my homework while my mom's, you know, like throwing a temper tantrum. It is not enough space. It's good for like a teenager. I feel like teenagers always live in a garage. It's just like full trauma action.

It's too much. That's why I'm like, when I watch Great Gardens, I was like, that's our family if we were rich. Yeah, but like, yeah, but it is your family. It's worse so because of the proximity. At least Grey Gardens, they could go to the beach or go to another. And weren't they related to Jackie Kennedy? Yeah, there was a distant cousin. Or they could go to another room.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. They had nice scarves and stuff. Yeah, but it was full of rodents and garbage. It seems like your grandmother probably kept it pretty clean in there. Yeah, there wasn't enough space to really hoard. You know, like the Great Gardens. How was the adjustment, though? How was school and everything?

Yeah, I mean, school was, you know. They never bothered you about the documentation in school, too. That's amazing. They didn't, yeah. That's wild. I think, you know, like L.A. is a very, very, I was pretty lucky to have moved to la you know at least just like so diverse already yeah and like other folks are going through the same thing there's a lot of big asian community here big asian community just like you know i went to a school with a lot of

like latin folk and you know a lot of them were also like probably going through the same thing where they're also undocumented and you know lived cramped and stuff like that and so it wasn't i didn't feel like extra like a freak you know maybe if i had moved to like arkansas or something you know which some people do you know well i remember there was when i grew up in albuquerque new mexico a lot of the um uh the i guess they were where'd they come from? Were they Vietnamese? That kind of got pushed out at some point in the 80s. There was a big Laotian community there that didn't speak any English.

And they went to my school. And I just remember like they- Refugees. Yeah. And I just remember like they kind of took a liking to me for some reason. They invited me to dinner with all of them. Oh, nice. And I had a crush on one of the girls and stuff.

Yeah, honorary. Uh-huh. But I brought a 12-pack of beer. And they're not drinkers. And they all wanted to drink it. But so many of them got sick. They got really drunk really fast. And I felt terrible.

So you just came and just like influenced them so i was like it was yeah it was like you were a bad influence exactly i just did the colonizer thing it's like i got them all addicted to alcohol and you hooked up with the girl i did not hook up with the girl there was no way to talk oh got it yeah although that's cool that they invited you in though the dinner was great i was it was very exciting the whole thing was exciting yeah because it's like new to you too it was new to them but it was like the community got to see also this new community yeah yeah i was yeah the whole thing was amazing now that i think about it yeah well i didn't add anything new by moving to la so i knew that you know what i mean it's like, you know? And people always ask like, why did you move from?

I'm like, I don't. It's a long story. Because it sounds wild to be like, I was undocumented. Where'd you move from? Some war-torn country? No, I fucking came from Tokyo. Who does that? You know what I mean?

Tokyo. Yeah. I came from Tokyo. We're not, you know, war-torn. You know what I mean? That was the frustrating part, you know? Because when I realized that we're living in this cramped space, we don't have rights.

And you could be in Tokyo, which is a fun, exciting... Freaking robots that serve you at restaurants in Japan. You know what I mean? We were the closest to flying cars. I know. I thought my only sense of Tokyo to flying cars. I know. I thought- We left that. My only sense of Tokyo is Blade Runner.

Blade Runner. Yeah. We have Harrison Ford. Is it Harrison Ford? Yeah. It was Harrison Ford. In spaceships. Yeah.

Just space cars driving around. In the near future. Yeah. And now you're in a garage. Now in a garage being like, oh, don't talk to anyone that looks like an officer. You know? Couldn't drive. Couldn't do anything. Being like, oh, don't talk to anyone that looks like an officer. You know? Couldn't drive, couldn't do anything. Well, when did all that change?

I mean, how did you- So I got my green card after the Visa lottery and then I got my car immediately and then found a boyfriend that lived in Santa Clarita and moved out of that garage and moved right into his place. How old were you? Eighteen? I was eighteen. Right after high school i was like boom yeah white guy uh half half asian half white guy but that would have been the yeah your

trajectory your thought process wouldn't be wrong to rebel right to be like no yeah i'm going with a white guy in santa clarita also yeah white guy santa clarita yeah makes sense so you're out there and and what do you decide to do with your life? Yeah, I'm out there, and he sort of- Are they mad at you, your grandma? Your mom's doing her own thing. Yeah, my mom's doing her own thing, talking to her friends in her head. Yeah.

And my grandma, she's busy. My mom's always busy. That is one thing that people get confused. Yeah. Your mom doesn't work. Your mom just lays there. Yeah. She's got a lot going on in her brain you know what i mean like she can't really be you want exhausting you want her to freaking bag bags at ralph's like that that's so hard already you know what i mean like she has like seven voices going on at all times she's not on medicine

the medication only really helps so much that's the the other thing about, I think that's also a myth about like, you know, antipsychotics. It's really hard. You have to have the right concoction that works for you. And it doesn't mean the voices will go away. It just means you might have less manic episodes. They're a little more diplomatic, the voices. Like, you want to talk or no? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

They ask for consent before they come and you know take over your freaking brain mind if i come in you're busy yeah you're talking to the other guy okay i'll come back later yeah or it might be like four voices instead of six you know but it's really it freaking sucks and you know that's why that's why i'm a sweetie mark yeah um yeah you had a you had had to accommodate a lot of crazy. Mm-hmm, yeah. So you got that personality. You're not the crazy person.

You're the sort of like, are you okay person? Yeah, I'm actually very, yeah, I like people. I have a lot of empathy for people. So what did you decide to do once you're out in Santa Clarita? So once I was out there, my grandma was a little worried, but she understood why I needed to take the space away from that life. Yeah. And so I was with my boyfriend, and he was the one that started sort of showing me the arts.

Oh, really? He showed me stand-up. Yeah. He showed me, you know, painting. He showed me movies, you know. Oh, so he liked all that stuff. He loved the arts, yeah. Oh, that's great.

Yeah. So you got lucky. Yeah, I got lucky where I was like oh cool thank you like yeah i was so busy kind of like living in this the the traumas yeah you know just like the eating disorder blah blah blah that what was the eating disorder i had anorexia and it turns into bulimia oftentimes and how'd you kick that? Finding a routine, right? And so at the time I joined the school cheerleading squad. Yeah. And that really helps to have a routine. That helped you. That's good. I would feel that I thought that would make it worse. Yeah. Oh, right. Well, yeah. Our cheerleading squad wasn't like the bring it on girls or what you see on Netflix is cheer.

No, no, no. We were... No. What were you? Our girls were like, if it weren't for cheer, I would have joined a gang. Those were my kind of girls. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I mean?

Yeah. Most of them had been shanked before. Yeah. Some of them were part of the Crips. Yeah. It was like... Yeah, it was that kind of girls. And so they weren't like about body image.

It was about like, these are my girls, ride or die. My boyfriend is a crip. Yeah. That's great. Yeah. I'd like to see that cheerleading team. Oh, yeah. Venice High School.

Venice High School. It was in Venice? Mm-hmm. Venice is heavy duty. Culver City were the bloods. Yeah. Yeah. Venice is hardcore.

It is. Yeah. No the bloods. Yeah. Yeah. Venice is hardcore. It is. Yeah. No, they were. Yeah. And that's where I went to school and found a community, but also a routine. Yeah. And that helped you. They weren't about like looking hot.

They were like, no. Every day though, we practice from three to five. Yeah. So you better be there on time. Right. And then you better get good grades. Right. Or else you can't be on the squad anymore.

And eat something. Yeah. Eat something. Because afterwards we're going to on the squad anymore. And eat something. Yeah, eat something. Because afterwards, we're going to car wash seven to nine to make money. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. And I wonder if, you know, how military does that for people, right?

Yeah. Like, you know, a structure. Yeah. Right? Really can maybe get you out of a habit that's not great for you or something. No, absolutely. Yeah. It can teach you how to think differently.

Yeah, yeah. And not focus on that stuff. So the boyfriend, though, he took you, like, who were the stand-ups you first saw? He showed me Robin Williams. Oh, yeah? So it was during, like, a time where you could, you know, download stuff for free. Yeah. And then you just kind of hoped it didn't give you a virus on your computer.

Yeah. Robin Williams. The big MP3 dumps yeah yeah yeah yeah so we would download stand-up comedy there margaret cho was a big one although margaret cho i was exposed to when i was in the sixth grade i just didn't believe that i could do it because i was like there's no way. She filled up that one slot, you know? What'd you see? Like her TV show? A notorious CHO tour on a DVD. Oh, yeah. In my garage, you know? Who had that? Your grandma?

Someone at my church. Oh, gave it to you? Yeah, was like, here, you should check this out. Oh, wow. She has this bit about Hello Kitty, you'll find it funny. I was like, really? Bit? What's that?

Yeah. People just talk? You know, American stand-up is not something that Japan really watches. Yeah. No, they're too busy with jazz and other stuff. Yeah. Music. A hundred percent.

People rarely go, I'm performing in Japan, unless it's for the troops. But that's American folk. Right. You know what I mean? Right. People never go, I perform. It's almost like the Japanese like everything else American. Yes, they do.

Except for like spoken word comedically. Yeah. You know what I mean? Might be a language thing. Yeah, I think it's definitely a language thing. Also cultural, maybe. I just love the Japanese. They like, they'll take on something American, some American art, and they're like, we're

going to do it better and better made. Yeah. And we're going to commit our life to it. For sure. Motorcycles, jeans, jazz music. music they really do they truly do sometimes they take it too far i think yeah i'm like what have you done to the american gene yeah no i know it's like there are guys in america they're like do i get the japanese and i'm like do i and you kind of do you kind of gotta get some japanese denim yeah no i've heard of the denim stuff yeah Yeah. Where people only...

Yeah. But they do boots in leather. Like, I have a Japanese suede jacket. But it's all American first. Got it. The designs. Right. They just sort of like...

They just sort of make it better. Yeah. Right, right. They have that obsession where you put in 10,000... I guess that's an American colloquialism, too. 10,000 hours. I guess so. I think that's a Malcolm Gladwellialism too. 10,000 hours. I guess so. I think that's a Malcolm Gladwell thing.

It is a Malcolm Gladwell thing. I keep remembering this joke that some comedian did about way back in the day. It was an old comedian that I knew in Boston. I don't remember whose joke it was originally. But it was like when Japanese tourists, you'd always see Japanese tourists everywhere taking pictures. Yeah, right. Right? was just sort of the stereotype and the joke this guy made was like are they building a scale replica of america that's so funny but they totally freaking are i know they totally are they're like how do we we going to make this way better. Yeah. Let me just study it for fricking 10 minutes. 20 years, 30 years.

Yeah. Mm-hmm. So you saw Cho, you saw Robin Williams, but it wasn't like you thought like, I'm going to do that. I really loved the art form. I couldn't believe that people were just coming together to see one person talk. Yeah. And change their minds about things, but also just be very personal.

Yeah. And make people laugh, without having to do physical comedy and stuff, because I grew up watching physical comedy. That's how I was exposed to comedy. Taiwanese comedy, or what? You know, like the Buster Keatons, the Lucille Balls. Why were you exposed to that?

Because that's universal. Was it on TV? It was on TV. I Love Lucy was on TV. Yeah, like on Nick at Night or something? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Or whatever the Japanese version of that was.

Oh, so they had it in Japan. In Japan. Oh. And so, you know, you're exposed to physical comedy a lot first, you know. Buster Keaton. Yeah, if you didn't speak English and you wanted to get to know american comedy it was physical comedy right charlie chaplin so it was like these you know yeah and so and so i had never seen someone just like stand there and move their mouth and have that big comedy too yeah and me get it because my english had gotten so good that i got it i was

like oh my god i can i'm laughing too because I got pretty good at the language. Again, like I said, the highest grasp, you know you got a language when you can make someone laugh in it, right? Yeah. Or laugh at somebody using the language. Yeah. Who is using that language.

Yeah. And so it was ingrained in me. And I started trying to make people at my school laugh and stuff. By talking? By talking, just with words, you know, not doing some weird physical thing or dance or whoopee cushion, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, with words and, you know. And so, yeah, that was sort of when I was exposed to comedy.

But when did you start, like what did you, you say you went to art school? I went to art school. Where? I went to Cal Arts in Santa Clarita. Yeah, represent. That's a pretty good school, right? That is a good school, yeah.

I've heard someone talk about it. Don Cheadle went there. Alison Brie went there. Oh, she did too? Yeah. Oh, great, yeah. A lot of people, I've talked to, yeah, Cheadle went there, I've talked to him about it. I think there's one other person I've talked to that went there.

So you went there for acting? No, yeah, strangely. So I was trying to like find, you know, the classic like, oh, maybe I don't want to, you know, I should have a backup plan to comedy. And so, which didn't make sense. I just don't have any other skills. But you hadn't done comedy yet. I had, I started comedy. I started trying comedy like 20.

I went to art school like when I was 23. Oh, so yeah. But I started stand up like 22. Where? I took a class that I found on Craigslist. Who taught it? Lisa Sunstead. She has a class called Pretty Funny Women. Yeah. And and i was just like i don't know how to start i uh without i don't i don't know if

i physically can drive to open mics because i still live in santa clarita yeah and maybe be okay like am i gonna go missing i'm such a ditz if i do things like that i will go missing i will just like end up at somebody's house or something and then for a week or just that something like that you know and so i was like maybe i should start oh this is an all women stand-up class uh-huh maybe that's a safer way to start you know i say this well she's a comic i find a class on craigslist and i trust it i feel like i heard her name before lisa sunstead yeah i mean i think you know i don't know if she performs as much anymore she mostly performs with the class like you know i think she she has a new class

every like two months she still teaches she still teaches how many people are in the class there were 10 people in the class any of them go on to do it? Me, Jenny Yang is a friend of mine, a colleague. She's in a lot of writer's rooms right now. But she was in the class too? Yeah, me and her pretty much. Huh. Yeah.

And you didn't know her before? I didn't know her before. Wow. And so what'd you learn in the class? You know, just like from how set-up punchlines work to stage presence to, you know, what are the things that make you funny to how can that maybe turn into a joke. So it really helped you? It did really help me. And was the graduation you get to perform in a club? That's right.

Yeah, that whole thing. I was at the, we were at the Comedy Union. Oh, really, down on Pico? Yeah, so we started there, the Comedy Union. That's where we performed. And then, you know, so we were able to have like our first five minutes, right? Our first five minute sets.

It's good that you learned all that stuff. It should give you confidence. I think so, and like, and safety. Because I was like, I don't know, I'll probably like spiral if I prefer. To give you confidence. I think so, and like, and safety, because I was like, I don't know, I'll probably like, spiral, if I just start going

to open mics. Yeah. I would pick up all the other stuff. I would pick up the cocaine and drinking. I just know I would. Yeah.

And like, boyfriends I didn't want. Yeah. And then I would just like, while I wouldn't be able to focus on joke writing, I come from such a chaotic home life.

Yeah. That I needed structure. Again, like cheerleading. I needed a teacher. Did it stick with you? I needed weekly assignments. It did stick with me, yeah. You know, for a second there after the class, I was like, okay, well, now that the structure is gone, how do I then continue to write jokes on my own?

For what reason? Yeah, without the guidance of a teacher going, that's good uh that could be better yeah you know um giving me assignments giving me deadlines you know and so i kind of had a hard time you know uh yeah i kind of fell in and out out of it and then i was like i'll apply to art school you know because you were trying to do open mics and stuff i was trying to do open mics i stuff? I was trying to do open mics. I was trying to write new jokes. Yeah. And, you know, but I think I was starting to lose focus. So then I go, I'm going to apply to art school. And those are hard.

They're hard to do, those rooms, aren't they? I mean, it's not fun. Was it? Sure. You mean open mics? Yeah. I had fun. I always liked it. I always liked performing.

I just got scared. I had fun. I always liked it. I always liked performing. I just got scared. And then I think, you know, you start questioning if you can. I just was scared because it was like my first time out doing something I really loved. That I was like, oh, I think I'm pretty good at it and can be good. And that's a scary thing to discover about yourself for the first time.

Yeah. I just discovered it a couple weeks ago. You're finding that you're funny? Yeah. You always say that, Mark. You always say like, oh, I feel like I just found my voice. But like, I think you've always... I think I've always had it. I know, but I don't

see it. But I was on stage in South Carolina just the other night. I was doing all this crowd work and I was kind of weaving it and I was really in the moment. That's great. No, no, I love it, but I've never said this before. I stopped and I said,

I'm good at this. Oh, you are. You are good at it. I know. I don't know if I need to do that on stage too often, but I... I think it's okay though because... I've noticed it lately

that I'm kind of enjoying my brain. That's great. Yeah. That's great. Yeah. That's great. And then it's not something, but so when you're enjoying something like that, letting yourself enjoy it instead of getting ahead and being like, I'm scared it'll go away. Oh, yeah. I don't know. I don't know that I ever really enjoyed it.

It took me a long time. I mean, I know I've been okay at it and that maybe my voice was there, but I can can't say that i enjoyed it i'm not even sure what was driving me but i needed to do it and there was no other options but i think the enjoyment thing is is slowly starting to happen but it's taken this long yeah but when you do enjoy it um you don't get ahead and get scared that it'll go away no i do okay yeah like i i don't want to be thought of as or more so with me i can't just sit there and go like i'm great because like i i would annoy myself i'm already just on the edge of annoying but that's really funny though that you're already like i'm good at this yeah i think it's okay to live in it and then you'll find something funny

about that too no yeah because i'm so curious yeah um because when you do that it makes me happy to see yeah i feel like the audience definitely responded similarly right yeah well it's just like crowd work is like one of these things that either you can do it or you can't you know what i mean you can do it i mean i watched that that weird earthquake oh sure i mean but being in the moment a a lot of comics, more than you know, can't really do it. Be in the moment. Yeah, I know. And do crowd work if necessary.

And I don't have any problem with it. There's something very exciting about improvising for me. Yeah. So when it really works out, you're sort of like, wow, that was good. Yeah. Well, because that's you enjoying the moment. That's right. Because you're like, I worked my whole life to be able Yeah, well, because that's you enjoying the moment. That's right, because you're like,

I worked my whole life to be able to do this confidently, and look what I just did. So maybe you always did enjoy it somehow. All right, well, okay. But it scared you. Me enjoying it scared me, yeah. I was like, oh, then I better stop now. Because someone's going to take it away?

Because if I'm so stoked, yeah, someone's going to take it away. I'll take it away first. So it's a dread from all the trauma upbringing. Yeah, I'll take it away? Because if I'm so stoked, yeah. Someone's going to take it away. I'll take it away first. So it's a dread from all the trauma upbringing. Yeah, I'll take it away first, you know? Oh, yeah. Or it's just going to get shitty. Yeah.

It can't work out for me. Yeah, so I better do the smart thing of going to art school, which totally makes sense, you know, to then just pick up filmmaking and creative writing. Yeah. Is that what you did? Which I did. And I wasn't bad and creative writing. Yeah. You know. Is that what you did? Which I did. I was, you know, and I wasn't bad at those things.

Yeah. You know, but. Well, creative writing, but filmmaking's good. Yeah, yeah. That probably helped you. Yeah, filmmaking did help. And I still use it for like my social media stuff, those skills that I picked up. And I made some independent films too.

But I was just tiptoeing around comedy yeah but i mean it's sort of i think what with your generation and is that there's you can integrate all that stuff yeah you totally can for me like i was like i'm just a comedian i don't want to work with people you know but like but i eventually did yeah but all i thought about was stand-up. Right, right. And even though film seemed interesting, but I never pursued it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, but we all end up becoming multi-hyphenates anyway.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know? Kind of have to. Look at you with your new software for podcasting. It's free software that's not that impressive. But still learning that and then you know these these other skills that you pick up just because yeah comedy first though that's right but like i do i do adapt but i think i'm a i'm like i'm at the age like just people a little older than me i think fell

off like a lot of older people don't adapt sure you know like, if you ever get email from an AOL address, not an adapter. Yeah, no, yeah, my ex is one, yeah. Oh,

really? Mm-hmm. Huh. But he thought he was so cool that he wasn't adapting. Yeah. The Santa Clarita guy?

A different Santa Clarita guy. The second Santa. I spent some time there, Mark. Yeah, the second Santa Clarita guy that still has an AOL and thinks it's so cool. Way back.

Yeah, I still have a flip phone. Oh, a flip phone too. This is why no one knows when you're missing. Yeah, yeah. No one knows when you're missing. I can understand that. Maybe his life is simpler. No, for sure, for sure.

And that he doesn't have a lot of clutter. Like there's something about choosing your own reality that if you keep it minimal, you're probably living a more authentic truth than the rest of us. Yeah, probably. No one cares. I mean, but nobody ever goes like, the authentic truth sometimes is the thing I'm trying to run away from. Give me a break, too. For sure, yeah, yeah. People always go, because I'm not like an outdoorsy person.

They're always like, let's go. The outdoors is outdoors is so great no distractions just you and your thoughts yeah that's why are you assuming i want to be with my thoughts maybe that's the thing i've been trying to run away from this whole time yeah you know what i mean yeah don't drag me back there yeah i just got away me and my thought well that's not good i always think that's not good you know i'm already with my thoughts all of the time. We all are. Yeah. You know? Yeah.

So did you graduate art school? I did graduate. I graduated art school and then I hit comedy harder after that because I was like, what have I done? Three years of just the arts, you know, creative writing and film. I double majored.

It was a ton of work. And I was like, you know, creative writing and film. I double majored. It was a ton of work. And I was like, but the happiest I am is when I'm making people laugh and needling at jokes, you know? And so that's when I started hitting it hard. But did you have the pressure? Because like I've talked to Asian people who are the kids of immigrants.

It seems like your story is different, that you didn't have like this kind of weird family structure pressuring you to do something more um immediately or something that resembled uh um right a doctor someone like my uncle right right who was able to pull people out of their sisters yeah just something that that seemed to be guaranteed status and money. For sure. You didn't have that. No, because my grandma and my mom, you know, they were like, we're just happy you're alive. You know what I mean?

Like, when things are so dire, ain't no time to be like, whoa, aren't you going to be a lawyer? Aren't you going to be a doctor? No, we were just stoked. Like, you found something that makes you happy? Oh, that's great. Good. Oh, you got lucky. Because your mom's still hearing voices every day. You know what I mean? There's no time to be like like you found something that makes you happy oh that's great good oh you got your mom still hearing voices every day you know what i mean there's no time

to be like you know what i mean the the classic sort of so i mean you know when i see a lot of asian american stories i don't actually relate because of that right because we had a unique upbringing for asian person Just three generations of women. We didn't even have a male figure. And one schizophrenic. Yeah. It was just a ton. And a comedian, you know. Yeah, yeah.

Makes sense. And a grandmother who, like, lied all the time to try to keep the family unit together. But she seemed solid. She's solid, yeah. I just wish, you know, she told me some truths. Yeah. Right. Well, part of parenting is know, she told me some truths. Yeah. Well, part of parenting is gaslighting. A hundred percent.

Yeah, totally. That's why I'm not going to be a parent because I don't think I'd be good at gaslighting. Yeah, I'm not a parent and I don't ever regret not being a parent. Yeah, I mean, of cats and you're happy. Sure. Well, I mean, let's not go crazy. But I like that, you know. Oh, you're like, wait, well i mean let's not go crazy but i like that you know oh you're like i'm not with the happy part i mean like i mean uh i'm happy your cats are happy yeah

i'm good that i don't have kids i'm i'm i i don't have a problem with that yeah i never think that i my father owns five cats now your father on his own yeah he in his retirement now owns five cats that's nice yeah he likes them. He likes them, right? He likes them. He loves cats. He's a cat person too. He's in Tokyo still? He actually lives in Bali now.

It's just cheaper to live there. A lot of Japanese former workaholics retire in Bali. Where they're not going to be pressured anymore? No more pressure. You're in paradise and it's very cheap. Yeah. So you get to go to Bali. I get to go to Bali when I see him, yeah.

And I'll meet the five cats, but it's a recent thing where they just... Showed up. Yeah, all it takes, it was like a cat mom had babies under the car's engine. Yeah. Is that how you met your cats? I met a cat under a car once, a kitten i didn't keep that guy that was a long time ago no these ones um the black one just showed up at my house someone i think lost him yeah when he was very little and the other one my friend kit got me yeah you know she knew somebody who's yeah

i had that from the beginning right right no sad stories well yeah buster's kind of a sad story but i got him the showing up at your house thing? Well, yeah, I used to feed some strays and he just started showing up and he was very little. Oh, yeah. I didn't know where he came from. There were no other kittens around. My suspicion is that someone had him and he got out. Because he was very young and he was already out

in the wild and I trapped him. Right. Do you chip them? Yeah, they're chipped. Yeah. But I don't let them outside. It's funny fucking coyotes No, you got a trap on there yours now. Yeah, and I just what's your rules your house your rules? Yeah, so where where do you start building the comedy at? Los Angeles I was already just doing that Mike's doing yeah, so when I started in quote hitting it harder doing yeah so when i started quote unquote hitting it harder yeah um i was just like yeah so i was going to mike's and then through mike's you know people see you and then so they book you yeah and

then i also started my own um not my own but me with jenny yang who i mentioned earlier uh and another comedian yeah we started a tour it's a it was an all Asian, mostly female stand-up tour. The first one ever in the US. And sort of created a space for ourselves to perform because not everyone can do the passing of the clubs, hanging out. It's not... True.

That's the old time way. Yeah. It's this lifestyle that maybe not everyone can do. Right. Maybe it's not safe for everyone either. Maybe some people are married or have to take care of somebody like a mother that they can't do that all night. Yeah.

And so you create your own space. And that's what we sort of, we did. And so we started touring. What did you each do, like 20 like 20 yeah we all did like 20 and then we would have like a local comedian as well and it was like also a way to showcase with jenny yang mostly because she's more about that like community and you know asian america she's big in like the asian community. I sort of tagged along. I was like the bohemian artsy girl. Like, yes, let's do it. Like, stage time.

Let's build it. Whatever. Get audiences? Yeah, we got audiences. And so we started doing that. And then I can't figure out when it was that it really took off for me. I feel like it's just folks seeing me perform around LA once I was back and then, you know,

the Dynasty typewriters and the Largos and then also comedians doing what I call like the rideback. It's what Hasan Minhaj calls the rideback, which is like more established comedians coming back and sort of like scooping people up along the way. Margaret Cho, you know. Open. Yeah, to open. Or also, you know. Oh, to open. Yeah, to open.

Yeah. Or also, you know, sometimes like if they have a show, like at Largo, like Margaret Cho, you know, being like, can you do my show too, you know. Yeah, it just kind of slowly built like that. That's like the shorter version or else, you know, it's way longer, right? Yeah.

Like how a person really. Yeah, but you just sort of did the way, you know, you just did some mics and then you did the tour with that woman and then you did, well, I mean, I listened to, like, what was it from a TV show? Was it a TV show you did or an episode of a TV show? Oh, yeah, maybe. What was the stand-up?

Uh-huh. Was it, because it's also a record too, right? Oh, yeah. yeah oh my album yes well no the album there's the album and then there's some other stuff on on uh oh my gosh that's like some old stuff that's like a bad contract i signed where i can't get out of it and they put it out still yeah oh my gosh that's like from a while ago. 2018 from They Call Me Stacey. That's actually, that was like, I recorded that like 2016. Yeah.

2016? Yeah. And then they put that out later. Well, it's interesting to hear how you changed because I listened to both of them. Yeah. And like, that is now how I really even want to do comedy. The way I talk and that album. Oh, and They Call Me Stacey?

Yeah. It's so interesting. How do you think it's different? I just know my voice more and my delivery. And yeah, economy of words, for example, is different. And my delivery is different. But also, you might not even be quite talking like yourself. I'm not talking like myself back then.

Like in 2016, right? Because you're trying to emulate other comics you see yeah i think i was hanging out with more like political comedians and i was talking about more political stuff like who well like jenny yang who is more political she's more asian american she's more social justice and i'm i'm more silly i'm i like the sillies you know like i grew up watching, like, my Tig Notaro, for example, once I really got into comedy.

Yeah. I love that kind of silly, where you're just kind of like, unapologetically, talking about something dumb sometimes. And, you know, and so,

yeah, that's what I lean towards more. Yeah, the new record, But I Control Me, is more pure you. A little closer, yeah. But I would say that I felt most myself even after that album. My latest hour.

That you're touring now. That I'm touring now, that I'm going to shoot as a special. For who? I can't say yet. Oh. Yeah. But it's going to happen. happen yeah at the end of the year what's it called it's well this one will be called the intruder yeah does it have a theme or is it

just it does yeah so during the pandemic uh we had an intruder come to our house three times in the same day and that sort of is like the arc you know the? Uh-huh. Yeah. It's still all stand-up jokes. I just make sure to finish that story. Sure. Yeah. Throughout. Yeah, throughout. I get it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I do. That's a theme. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you've done a lot of, like, you did some writing. You wrote with Jenna. I wrote with Jenna. Yeah, yeah, for Adult Swim.

And then Eric Andre, too. You did? For Adult Swim, yeah. So you get it. I get it. I get it. I'm not great in a writer's room. No?

I'm definitely more like, I like performing. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. But you must bring something. Everyone brings a little something in the writer's room, some ideas or something. You just don't like it? For sure, yeah.

I think, yeah, it's hard for me to, yeah, yeah yeah yeah you know and i think it's okay to be honest about that sure where you know you're like oh it's so many jokes that i just gave away i wish i could maybe use that but yeah i can't now and that's fine you know it's so funny because like those two like on eric andre and jenna friedman yeah they do a certain thing do you know what i mean it's not it's not quite what you do they kind of are there they're it's not they push it yes right yeah yeah totally totally like uh like a button you know right and how far can we take this for sure and i think it's cool i love watching folks thrive in what they do yeah i'm like you know i'm always like, I wish I could be like that.

But I'm like, you know, but it. Your standup. Yeah. I think, you know, like three years ago, it really hit me. Yeah. Where I was like, oh, no, I've found the silly voice I like being at with standup. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And this is, sometimes the key is realizing what you're not, right?

Sure, of course. finding out who you're not well i'm always like there's part of me that's always going to agree like oh yeah i'll do that and even if i don't want to do it uh-huh yeah i have to like i have to actively tell that guy like don't do that you don't have to do it like you're not that's not yeah yeah right maybe that'll make it better maybe i'll be maybe that's what I should be doing. I still have to tell that guy, no, we're not doing that. Right, right. Which is what? Like directing or stuff like that?

It's just opportunities. Because you go through so much of your life in this business where you just want something. You have somebody offer me something. You kind of say yes. Right, because you're like, yeah, I'll do that. And I've done a lot of shit that was not right. I hosted a fucking game show. I remember.

On VH1 that never took off. It never went anywhere. And it was like such a gift. No one gave a shit. Yeah. And it was the worst. Because you were like, I didn't care for it either. No, it was the worst.

You know, and like there were all these little jobs, like, you know, hosting jobs and things. And it's all behind me but there was a period where i knew i didn't want to do them but your manager would be like you should do it you'll learn this you do that but they just want no for sure yeah and then uh you know in the last decade or so like i don't have to do anything but there's still part of me that thinks i should yeah a hundred percent and so i always have to remind like fellow friends you know and colleagues like if they get jealous of someone else

yeah like an opportunity a deadline article sure especially if I know them you know I have to be like but you don't want

to be an actor right that's right yeah do is that or also is like is that even a role you could do yeah

you know like no that's true like are you even you know would you even be considered for that? Like, jealousy is a weird thing because it's, it's, it's kind of nebulous. So like, you know, anybody who gets success that you have in your head as somebody that you're in competition with, it can be like, you know, like, why did they, you know. Yeah. But do you have to get, you have to go, you have to really deconstruct it for a while to realize, like, I don't even want to do that.

Yeah, you don't want to do that. that's so not you right that's like so that's not a that's not your interest in fact you would be miserable doing that job it's weird how jealousy works and then like see you're like you're not a redhead girl what the character asks for but then people are like yeah but they don't know what they want yet it's like yeah but i know they don't want me i can make that happen uh-huh yeah i think it's like so important to like take the time to realize that to break it down sometimes you have to realize who you're not yeah yeah it's right right and jealousy is just sort of this like animated insecurity you know it's just sort of like it's like it's what imagination does to insecurity is jealousy yeah no for sure and i you know i've i've gone through that too and that's that's why

i realized like oh no i don't want to be in a writer's room like no that's give it to the people who actually want to do it and have been working at it yeah you know so you're just out there doing this hour oh my second hour no but this is your second hour basically yeah but i feel like i'm most proud of this hour i want to call this of course i want to call this my first hour okay yeah okay because yeah i'm finally doing it right too but you know you did a cd so you don't call it an hour. You just recorded some material that you were working on a few years ago. Yeah, it was like Odds Go Live at a location. And now this is the first hour hour.

Right, something like that, yeah. Okay. You know, I have to fail publicly first before I learn stuff. You didn't fail, though. You're just evolving. Right. You got laughs on both of those things. No, sure, sure.

But in a different way. But yeah, but that's not failing. You're just, you know, you're coming into yourself. You can't look at your past and be like, well, that sucked. I mean, you did good for the things that you did. Oh, thank you. Thank you. No, that means a lot.

Yeah. Because like I look at my old shit. I mean, it's not who I am now, but I'm like, that did all right. No, that's great. I freaking, whatever meditation you do, that's great. Or like, you know yourself. It took me a long time to accept those versions of me, to watch myself on TV and be like, but like what you said is so, because I spent so many years thinking like, I'm not, you

know, my voice is not, you know, or whatever. And I'm watching shit that I did did like my first few tv sets in the late 80s i'm watching them like that sounds like me it's always sounds like you yeah i was always me what the am i talking about yeah i mean no that's good it's just you just know you get bigger you get more confident you're just with yourself all the time so you know yeah you know how you would have rather said it no I just don't know I it's just I think that I was not honoring something in myself where where what was really happening is I wasn't acknowledging that I was

interesting yeah do you know yeah and maybe you didn't know it at the time how would you would or you didn't know how to even tap into that yeah and I just got better you know you just get better. Eventually you get comfortable. It sounds like you just got comfortable. Yeah. A few years ago. You're just sort of like, this is it.

And I feel good. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. All right. Well, it's good talking to you. It was great talking to you too, Mark. Yeah. Thank you for having me.

Okay. That was Otsuko Okatsuka. She'll be at Largo here in Los Angeles on July 18th for her Otsuko and Friends show, along with Fred Armisen and Margaret Cho. You can look her up on YouTube. You can go listen to her record, though she may not want you to. And go to WTFpod.com slash tour for my dates and stuff and, you know,

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