WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1347 - Naomi Ekperigin

Episode Date: July 11, 2022

Comedian and writer Naomi Ekperigin is a cheerful person who also finds herself paralyzed with rage. It’s a balancing act she has to manage, just like she balanced her time in writers’ rooms with getting on stage night after night to work on her standup. Naomi and Marc talk about her family in Nigeria, working for the National Theater for the Deaf, editing an art magazine, and her time working on shows like Broad City, Difficult People and Good News.  Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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To show your true heart is to risk your life. When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive. FX's Shogun, a new original series streaming February 27th exclusively on Disney+. 18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. Lock the gates! all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fuck nicks what the fuckadelics what's happening i'm mark maron this is my podcast, WTF. Welcome to it. I'm broadcasting from a bouncy room. Not a bouncy house. A bouncy room. A room where the sound bounces around.

There's no carpet. There's nothing stopping the sound from bouncing all over this hotel room in Albuquerque, New Mexico. My hometown where I am here. I've come back here. I come here pretty frequently these days for one reason or another, but generally it's a good excuse to see my dad. Sometimes that's the intention is to see my dad. It seems that lately I've been looking at houses in the area and also seeing my dad. I don't know why I come home. Why does anyone go how are you are you okay look at me are

you okay look at me don't it's okay to cry look at me are you okay i hope you're all right i don't know what to tell you i just it's always good to you know to go see my father, but I have been looking at houses and I get anxious and I have this idea in my head. Do you want to know who's on the show today? I can tell you that first. Naomi Ekparajan is on the show today. Yeah, that is her name.

Maybe some of you know her. Maybe many of you do. She's a stand-up comic. She's been a writer on shows like Broad City and Difficult People. She's been a regular on the podcast Two Dope Queens. And she actually has her own podcast called Couples Therapy. We met once before when I was a guest on Two Dope Queens. And she was filling in for one of them.

I can't remember which one. But she's here. I talked to her. That was a nice talk. I've been talking to the new generation of comics that somehow I seem to miss. Between COVID and me just kind of being in my own world, it seems an entire generation of comedian has come up. And I am engaging with the ones who seem to be out there and doing things. A few of them anyways.

Obviously, I can't get to all of them. But yeah, so I'm in my hometown. Oh, you know what I should talk about? James Kahn died. Also talking about my father. There was a time my father is of not quite the same cloth as James Kahn, the same cloth as James Caan, but he's a curly-haired Jew with spilkas, with chutzpah, I don't know, with the chukach. But there is some sort of continuity there. But James Caan is dead.

He passed away. And the episode that I did with him is available for free now in all the podcast apps. It's one of the episodes that came out from behind the paywall just last week when we launched our new stuff, our new thing. It's a lot of episodes available for free now. So there's no need to sort of jack it up, take it out from behind the paywall, put it back in the feed. It's already there. I will alert people to them existing, but I don't need to do it the same way. It was a great interview. It was great fun to talk to that guy. And it wasn't that long ago.

And he was, I mean, he was a little younger than my father. But one of the great tough Jews. I don't know. We got to find, we have to figure out who the new tough Jew is. There's a couple. There's some around. But not like like him and I watched all those movies I cannot get the movie thief out of my head really because I watched so many of his movies when I was about to talk to him and I re-watched that it was tremendous so why does one get depressed when one goes to their hometown?

Well, first of all, I was driving down Rio Grande Boulevard. And, you know, I live down there towards the big curve on Rio Grande. I mean, I grew up there. So theoretically, I've driven down that road hundreds and hundreds of times to the point where the hotel I'm staying at this time, you come off of I--40 you take a left on real grand no less than three times have i taken a right out of force of habit from so many years but i do get depressed and it's not nostalgia i don't know why you know what's compelling me to look at homes here or to look at maybe a place to to have a house to end up in i just have this idea about new mexico for a while

it was albuquerque and then i realized like i don't need to live in the city i grew up in it would drive me nuts but then i started thinking well that's not really what it's about it's not a nostalgia trip it's because new mexico is beautiful it is northern new mexico is beautiful and it has a profound impact on my psyche but I've been looking at places up behind the mountain up in off old 14 up in Cerritos in that area in between here and Santa Fe and this house came up up there and in the pictures it looked kind of amazing a little two-bedroom house that was once a little lavender farm. And it's beautifully landscaped. And it seems to be situated in the middle of the kind of rocky sort of hilly mountains back there up in that area.

But I swear to God, you guys, when I get just here with my own thoughts, I get profoundly sad. And it's heavy, heavy-hearted. And sure, it's about my dad, but it's also about New Mexico. And I started to realize like, what am I looking for here? Why am I looking at houses here? Why would I want to come back here? And I just find it's necessary for me at this point in my life to re-engage my memories, but not in some sort of weird nostalgia way. I'm not nostalgic for anything, I don't think. But I do think that coming home,

there was something comforting about the idea that when this was your home, you'd go out into the world and then you'd come back home and you'd see people that you grew up with and be like, what have you been doing? Where have you been at? How's it been here? You know, you were younger people and this was always sort of a home base.

And then that drifts away if you leave home for good where it's like it's still your home but you know it's not it's not the same you're not some returning you know warrior with tales from the world not really you're just a guy who grew up in a place who comes back looking for something to give his life meaning in a way to see and remember where you come from to re-engage your memories or to activate them so you can remember who you were and how you behaved at different points in your life you know in the world today when we're just sort of saturated with garbage and bullshit and drifting down rabbit holes and destroying our brains daily with so much information that just becomes almost, it's like a chaotic, like you're dumping a cyclone into your fucking head every day.

And on top of that, we're disjointed. We're not in touch with people. We're isolated in our own weird way. Maybe you're Zooming, maybe you're texting, but it's just, there's something about wondering about who the fuck am I really? Who am I in this world? People keep chattering, they keep talking, or people keep looking and scrolling and streaming and swiping.

It's just, who are we? How did we behave back in the day when you actually talked to people in person. What were we doing when things were paced differently? And I get into that groove when I come back to New Mexico. But I think I had the realization this time coming back home that there is nothing for me here other than my memories. And I go up to Cerritos to look at this house.

I meet two real estate agents there at a gate off of Old 14. We drive like a mile and a half on a dirt road into this pocket, and the realtor representing the seller of the house said it's like the hole in the wall gang, and I'm like, oh my God, it kinda is from Putsch and Sundance. You just come upon this little pocket

where it's surrounded by hills, this little house, it's a little piece of property, a mile and a half in on a dirt road. There's really nothing around. There's another house maybe a half a mile away, but it's out there. It's in the sticks. The woman who owned the place was just leaving. And I looked at the place and it's cute as hell. It used to be a lavender farm.

She used to run a little lavender business out of there. I'm with these two women these real estate agents were you know we're talking a bit but i'm just looking i'm standing out on the porch and there's this wind coming through and there's this silence that was amazing it wasn't quite as zen because there was a wind to it but there was just this almost like prairie quiet this mesa quiet this know, off the grid type of quiet, just the wind. And it was so peaceful that I realized in that moment that if I lived there, even for a week, I would lose my fucking mind.

I can't, I can barely, I mean, maybe I'd have things to do maybe i'd garden i just don't know if i'm cut out for that life maybe if i really want to live out here i should move closer to a city because it'd be a schlep to get in there and what if i fall down in the yard and i crack my head open i'm just gonna lie there and rot until someone finds me and then like as we're driving out i mean it's beautiful and i really want to be the kind of person that could live that life i just don't know i need to be engaged man and i don't know how good the internet is out there and as we're driving back we see the woman who owns the place about a mile down the road sitting in her car using her phone because that's where she could get cell signal and i'm like i don't know man so that fantasy is slowly dying the living off the grid and serios that might be slowly dying i don't know what to hang on to anymore but here's the odd thing i went up into the attic before i left for this trip to find my diploma because I need my diploma because I'm applying for something that requires my degree they need to see it with a lot of other

stuff and uh I'm going through these boxes up in the attic and I found this envelope of pictures of my father where uh of that I don't know where I got them I must have got them from his aunt or maybe from my grandmother at some time but they're pictures of him when he was two three years old in college just a big bunch of pictures childhood pets stuff like that you know him and his father when he was the pictures of him when he was a teenager it was just this envelope that i'd completely forgotten i had and i was like holy shit i going to take this to Albuquerque and I'm going to go through this with my father

to sneak in a memory test with him, you know? It was fortuitous or serendipitous, I think is better. I had a conversation with the kid, the cat lady, over which word is better, but probably serendipitous because I was leaving and I wouldn't have remembered having that thing. So got here that and i went over to my dad's house to spend a few hours took him to lunch uh the chinese place and we talked about stuff you know and like you know he's engaged there's stuff there it's not you know it seems it was seems

maybe it was just he's having a good couple of days but we get back and i put the mics on him and eventually i think we'll we'll uh we'll release that as some of the bonus material for wtf plus uh members but we went through these pictures and he remembered man he remembered all his fraternity brothers he remembered his childhood pet's name both of them it was kind of touching and in that envelope there was a handwritten copy of his valedictorian speech from high school and he read it he read it he couldn't believe he wrote it it was kind of it's sweet it was a sweet moment and uh and it was just like it was uh you know this is what you do man this is what you do this is what i'm doing i come out here i'm melancholy at first i get depressed

and weirded out because i don't know what to do here anymore there's it's like it's in terms of my history a lot of it is like driving through a ghost town, but you know, it's not empty. It's just, you know, the ghosts are just, they're just other people. So it's just a very, there, there are chunks of time that disappear between, Hey man, what are you doing since you graduated from college? It's been a few years and now it's like, how's your health? Is everything okay? are your parents still alive no i heard about that i'm sorry this is what happens man and i'm spending time with my old man

that's what i'm doing okay so here we go naomi hick paragen i'm gonna ask her about that name she co-hosts the podcast couplesples Therapy along with Andy Beckerman. She has her own half hour of the Netflix series, The Stand-Ups, and she's also on the Apple TV Plus series, Mythic Quest. This is me talking to Naomi at Comparigen. It's winter and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So, no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats.

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Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. Death is in our air. This year's most anticipated series, FX's Shogun, only on Disney+. We live and we die. We control nothing beyond that. An epic saga based on the global bestselling novel by James Clavel. To show your true

heart is to risk your life. When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive. FX's Shogun, a new original series streaming February 27th exclusively on Disney+. 18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. yeah the pets are like i can't it's it's also heartbreaking because i know

now like with the world ending and stuff, you put more focus on your fight. It's just sort of like, oh, my God, don't you? You can't go. It's, like, terrible. It's a little difficult. And today was difficult. You know, I didn't know how it was going to go. And I don't know when we'll run this, but this is the day that the world was dreading.

Yep. They overturned Roe v wade and now what what's the immediate thing do you feel you know i am filled with a rage as but also a weariness you know a true weariness with the age okay and because it is that again we knew this was coming right they leaked the remix a couple weeks a couple months ago i mean so it's like but at the same time to just know that you know your rage is kind of useless you need some action on it and just the extent to which i don't know all i see around me is rage and tweets and correcting each other yeah i i don't like that's the the horrible thing is that kind of like that heartbreaking powerlessness.

Yes. Yes. And it's like the rage goes right to almost like it's very hard not to turn it, not inward, but there's nowhere for it to go. To be paralyzed. Yeah. It's hard for it to not be paralyzing. Like I did have pasta for breakfast. I'm not lying.

Is that how I live? No, Mark. It's not how I live, but it's how I feel good for 20 minutes today is pasta day uh-huh i said forget it i know i i'm finding i'm doing that too it's like i've some more butter what's the point man like mark did you think because i'm like it sucks living through history i didn't think i was gonna live through some actual history like i could see the book being written as i live it yeah no i i used to do a bit about that you know like about how like you know i most of us didn't think we'd see the end of the world but it looks like we're gonna get in under the wire exactly yeah i you know this and for me to realize that this was enacted and this and

overturned in my lifetime yes but i mean i was eight years old yeah yeah in 72 but it is something that was given and taken away in a lifetime right and you know contextualizing all this stuff it's just it's just scary and i i don't know um you're a person of color i'm a jew you know there there are things that are happening you know more frequently now that you don't it's sort of like what am i supposed to do exactly i mean well of course because we all talk about what we would have done if we had been there sure back in the day and then you realize the extent to which well because you know what it is it requires collective action that on one hand we hear each other's mouth all the time on social

on the other hand we don't know nobody and we're not going to step up for anybody you know what women need to do we need to all not go to work yeah for one day across the country but will we all get along no i don't know we can't get a google dot going that's right we can't get an email chain going on that yeah but i don't think a lot of people are i think there's a very complex shallowness going on i don't think that people really know the impact i mean obviously with this most women know the impact but with generally i think people are very uninformed and there's a lot of information out there. It's hard to contextualize it. It's hard to know what's real and what isn't. But most people don't give a shit. Yeah. Right. If it doesn't directly affect

them. And most of the time they can't see how it directly affects them. Exactly. Well, one of my biggest nothing I hate more than when you hear a politician say, as a father of a daughter, right? Why is it that you need to literally have made a woman to get the plight of a woman? I know.

It infuriates me. Like, it has to be personal. Whereas like, to me, it's just like, you know, we all need the right to do with ourselves what we want with ourselves and that shouldn't need to be personal like because also to me it's also the triple it is the

it is both roe v wade uh concealed carry yeah and uh miranda writes yeah all in the same week and it's a pummeling i think that's why we need more butter right because we because it's a pummeling. I think that's why we need more butter, right? Because it's like, you get, like, that's like a triple hit in a way that if you do care, it feels like, well, they just want us dead. They just want us dead. Yeah, you can't breathe. Yeah. It's overwhelming. I've been, like, with the choice thing, I've been telling, I've been saying on stage, I've

been talking to men specifically in my mind where I'm like, you know, most of you guys have paid for one of these. So where's your voices? Right. I don't know. For me, I go right to like, is it time to go yet? I know. But then I go, what else would I do? I know, but then I go, what else would I do?

Like, unfortunately, I have this dream and only skill in one thing that I'm like, I guess I have to stay here. Maybe London. London. I don't know if it's so great over there either. I know, exactly. And I'm like, okay, maybe Canada might buy you another five years, right? It might extend the time a little. I think Canada, yeah.

Well, there's a lot less people in Canada. That's true. That's true. That's true. But it's not going well up there either? It isn't. Well, I just get the sense that it's not, because I'm hearing things, especially racially. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's like, what are we going to do?

Where are we going to go? I mean, I was talking about Amsterdam just because I like it, and they speak English, so maybe they'll let me do stand-up. It's a little... It's true. Amsterdam, the last time I was there, I was like, it's a little dirty here. On a lot of levels. It's a little, like the tourist business has really sort of gotten nasty in a way.

It's a pretty city. It's pretty. But I was like, you know, if you don't want to smoke hash and you're not 20 and you're not fascinated with the legal prostitution. Right, right. I don't know. It doesn't seem like a livable city to me. Well, I feel like it's one of those like really expensive cities, right. I don't know. It doesn't seem like a livable city to me. Well, it feels like it's one of those really expensive cities, right? Yeah.

It almost felt like, to me, central Amsterdam, which I saw, had that Times Square element. Definitely, right. You don't want to live in Midtown. You don't want to live where it's packed. That old, sleazy Times Square element. That vibe. And it was funny. I saw a dude.

I remember seeing a guy haggling with a sex worker. And it was just like, babe, pay the price. Pay the price, babe. You already came here. Don't you dare try to talk somebody down from the cost of what it is to lick your taint. You've got to pay that person in full. Yeah, give her what,

it's on the menu. Honey. Price is listed. Price is listed. Yeah, yeah. Now, where did you come from? I grew up in New York. New York City?

I grew up in Harlem, yep. Really? How far up? 135th. Yeah York City? I grew up in Harlem, yep. Really? How far up? Where? 135th? Yeah? Yep. Is it nice?

It is now. Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's funny because I definitely grew up 80s, 90s Harlem. It wasn't good then? It was just starting to get good or what? It didn't start to get good until when did Red Rooster come on 125th Street? Oh, that's right.

When did Columbia start buying more places over that way? What's that guy's name, the Red Rooster come on 125th Street? Oh, that's right. When did the condo, when did Columbia start buying more places over that way? What's that guy's name? The Red Rooster guy? Marcus Samuelson. Yes. I used to watch him on Shopped. I thought he was a smart guy. I never ate there.

Did you eat there? I did. Is it good? Sure. Okay. You know, it is, it's interesting to me. I always think reimaginings of soul food are funny to me. That's not what I go to soul food for.

Yeah, there's never enough of it. Anytime something's reimagined, it's like, this cornbread's a little small. It's like cornmeal soup, evocative of cornbread. Yeah, just bring the cornbread. These aren't collard greens. This is like pureed something. It's kohlrabi yeah with a black eyed pea puree like no bacon no bacon i want it heavy yeah oh yeah yeah so

but it started but was it a did it shift up there because of a gentrification thing yeah so yeah yeah it was you know it's funny just because growing up so i grew up in harlem i went to school up there until fifth grade. Then I went to school in the Upper East Side. What do your parents do? My mom's a lawyer. She's a family court attorney. And your dad?

He was also, I don't know what his ass do, Mark. Oh, really? I don't know what he do now. I don't know what he do now. He was a lawyer. He's not around anymore? He ain't that far, but we don't talk. When did that start?

Ooh, child. We probably, it got dicey for us around 2005. Oh, so you're kind of a grown up already. Exactly. Well, like, no, my parents divorced when I was very young. Okay. So he was gone from maybe like five to 11. Then he came back and was like, hey, I'm out.

I'm out of rehab. You have a brother. And I was like, okay. Wait, you're out of rehab. You have a brother. Yeah, I didn't know because I know you had some other lady and a younger brother. And so we kind of interacted. Like I would see him for a while in high school.

And then as I got to college, we started to drift in the way I think you just drift in college. But the difference is like I would go home for a while in high school and then as I got to college we start to drift in the way I think you just drift in college but the difference is like I would go home to my mom right so of course I saw her whereas him he was like you never call me right but your anger takes a different shape as you get older yeah right you don't understand when you're younger and you just want to be you want to be a connection but when you get older you're like oh fuck that exactly exactly and it was also that feeling too where it's like well what and this is the thing I You want a connection. But when you get older, you're like, oh, fuck that. Exactly. Exactly. And it was also that feeling too where it's like, well, what? And this is the thing I constantly wonder.

What does it look like now as a grown adult? Yeah. To be like, daddy. What? Yeah, I know. I don't know how you. Who are you? Who are you?

So you don't. You were how old when they got divorced? Six, maybe. Oh, so you kind of remember? Kind of remember. And then when he came back, when I was like in my. But you knew he had problems? You knew, like, was it like. I didn't of remember and then when he came back when i was like in my but you knew he had problems you knew like was it like i didn't know he had problems until he came back oh yeah i didn't i didn't know what was going on yeah and your mom didn't tell

you ever not until on the flip side oh yeah yeah yeah you all you know it's so interesting to tell this right because of course i'm telling someone else's story and you know how some black families could be about telling people business. But I'll tell you like the moment. So I was sitting at home one day. I was 10 years old. I was probably by myself for all of two hours. Like not much.

You know, my mom ran to do something. But the phone rings and I pick it up. And a male voice, you know, and I'm like, hello, whatever. He's like, is this Naomi? And I said, yes. He goes, do you know who this is? I said, no. He goes, it's your father. I hung up the phone, screamed, almost called the police. I said, I'm about to be murdered. Who is this person? What is this person doing? Like that was my intro. That was

him, I guess, being like, hi. And so then when my mom came home and I told her what happened, she was like, okay, let me sit you down and tell you where he's been and what has happened and you were 10 yeah like 10 11 and what was the lowdown that he had a drug problem had been in rehab had gone off yeah you know obviously made another baby did whatever he was doing uh-huh right like i don't think he called me like fresh from the bus station right like i think he had been out and done planned it yeah yeah yeah but i don't know how long wow yeah um and so okay and then he was back and it was kind of like okay cool he came back or he's just back in your life back in my life they weren't together no no like you know um but what was his story i mean where did he like you know was he from new york he's from

nigeria like real nigeria nigeria yep my parents met in law school in new york yeah but he grew up born and raised all his family and siblings and uh everything like that my grandmother is a his mother is a pastor in africa really yep yep yep well that's kind of interesting though oh yeah it is i'm it's funny she texted me this morning your grandmother yeah she texted me i because okay so i was a little bit of a unplanned baby and so when my mom after she had me yeah i lived with my grandmother in nigeria for i don't know nine-ish months while my mom took so she could study and take the bar exam you went to nigeria yeah so your mom could have

the space to do her work yep because she said i gotta raise the baby i'm gonna have to get this locked i'm gonna pass it so she's gonna have to go to nigeria for night exactly that seems like a hell of a trip for a newborn i know i had to have been a couple months old by that point but i still like wasn't that a good 20 hours like how long was i on the plane yeah who took you your dad i think my grandma might have. She came and got you? She would have flown maybe and took me back. Interesting.

I know. I think that's when I also think about, that's wild that my mother had to do that. Had to say, take my baby. Wasn't someone, well, yeah, I guess she didn't want to trust anybody too nearby because then she wouldn't get the space. I wonder.

I mean, I assume that. Because she'd want to be over there. Yeah. You don't know. You haven't asked her like, why'd you just get rid of me for nothing i know why but yeah i was like i guess right what i want to ask her is yeah what did it feel like yeah yeah couldn't like why couldn't i have been closer yes or that feeling of you know at times our relationship has been contentious and i do wonder you know now again now on the other side of being an adult you know she had me at 24 she had to go drop me off you know i had to go to africa for a hot minute

that's a lot it was like could you take the baby to africa for a minute that's a lot it's too hard you can't you can't remember no i mean i have picked and we used to go when i was younger oh you did when my parents were together and then after they divorced. Yeah. That's such a long trip, man. I love to travel, though. Like, I am a, like, put me on a plane. Like, I mean, I hate the process of getting on the plane, but I actually love being on airplanes.

Yeah, but for, I mean, like, I've flown to, like, Australia and come, like, 14 to 18 hours, I'm like, I've had enough of the plane. I know what you mean, but you just kind of walk the aisles for a minute, stretch your legs. But the bathrooms get so nasty. That's true. It's just sort of like, what is wrong with people? Do you ever find that in a plane bathroom? It's like, what are you doing? Mark, it's because we don't care about each other.

There's no class solidarity, and we're not forming a coalition to keep the bathroom clean after we use it. That's true. And I think people are just sort of like, I'm not going to clean it. Exactly. But have you been to Africa as an adult? No, I have not. I haven't been back since I was maybe eight, nine, a long time. It's just like I have no sense of what it's like.

It'd be like going to a whole different world. I think it's, well, it's interesting now, right? Because I think what I know and what it is now is so very different in terms of, you know, having been built up, modernized. You know, like Nigeria's got the whole, like, Nollywood, Nigerian film industry. Yeah, so it's like, it's a totally different thing

than even what I know. But you have family there still. Yeah. Yeah. You want to come with me? You can come with me and then everyone can be so focused on who this random white dude is that i don't have to have hard conversations you want to do that yeah i guess it yeah yeah i'd go for a little while i'd be

not for a few weeks okay yeah we have to plan it okay okay so when so you're just growing up with your mom then mostly yeah and no siblings that you knew of yet? Not yet, nope. I mean, I had the two younger brothers, but we sort of fell away again as I graduated college and went off into life, and my resentment for my father took over. Yeah.

Yeah, but they're now adults. So what was the school you went to? High school? You mean like middle school, high school? Yeah. Dalton? What is that? Dalton School?

It's like a fancy schmancy upper east side private school it is one of the ones you think of uh my mom's because so i was going to catholic school up in harlem and then it turns out my mom found out i think it was around when she found out that i was grading spelling tests and no longer allowed like she was like oh no no no are you on payroll no then you cannot be doing that and it was all about you know challenging me i need to be challenged because you were gifted in certain ways yeah you know yeah a little smart yeah and how was dalton um it's funny uh it was terrible in the beginning and then i think i learned i made my way uh and so i think i left

kind of being like okay that was fine but when i looked back and i think in particularly when i got to college and realized like oh there's nothing wrong with me it was them maybe like it was that space like oh yeah like what made you feel you know there was that's that's a level of wealth right on another it's like another level. How many black people were there? I was one of eight in my grade. Oh, man. Yeah.

Yeah. And also, too, like, when I started, because I started in sixth grade. Yeah, it had to be sixth. Anyway, but I was 10, because I'm, like, a little, my birthday's late. Yeah. But I was, like, already, like, 5'4", wearing a bra. Like, it was, you know and like all these like little skinny white girls who are just like you know like they would make i have made fun of for wearing a medium

a medium honey i'd kill for a medium right now mark yeah okay yeah and it was like and the shame i felt like just being bigger and you know no boys ever liked me so i thought it was hideous and i got to college and then i was like no i ain't and then i'm like it's all right yeah that got corrected yeah yeah um so i think but of course i learned a lot and i feel like in a way given that now i'm in a business where i'm judged by white people all the time yeah dalton was a good training ground yeah yeah started me early yeah i it's like i can't imagine that i mean it it's very hard for me to know what that would feel like, to feel isolated like that in a way among people. Well, you grew up in New Mexico.

Yeah, but like- Were there Jews? A few. There was enough. Enough. We went to Hebrew school. But I mean, being Jewish, you can sort of pass. Yeah.

Sort of, but depending where. Sometimes they won't let you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They won't let you in certain places. Well, I always think I could. But yeah, I mean, it wasn't, there was enough of, you know, I went to Hebrew school and stuff. And I still have friends who I grew up with that are Jewish. But still, high school was just sort of, you know, it's basically town, you know, just.

It was mostly in New Mexico. So when I was growing up, it was probably 60 or 70% Latino. So there was that. But it never felt like we were the minority. You were alone. Right, right, right. Why are all the Jewish kids sitting together in the cafeteria? No, no.

All the Jews were spread out. And there was a few at my school. And maybe we weren't understood. But we weren't Hasidic. Right. It wasn't like, why can't you go out on Friday night? I can. Exactly.

But to be one of eight, I mean, it's got to be high school. Well, it was also like different. I remember so distinctly before I started, I was like, I thought white people would be nice because they were nice on TV. And I knew that white girls wash their hair every day because that's what I heard on TV. Like, that's what I knew about white folks. And I certainly didn know you know when people are like i'm jewish i didn't know that jewish was different yeah from white or in its own way right like kind of i guess i mean as it was described to me like okay we're a group doing our own thing right right right right i um you know didn't understand like so you know i started sixth grade seventh grade is bar and bat mitzvah season and that becomes you're doing the you're doing making

the rounds making the rounds honey yeah still remember i have to a portion after all these years okay but that if that was upper if that was upper class stuff, they must have been themed parties. Oh, yeah. Tavern on the Green, Henny. We've got the Nick City Dancers coming through. Okay. Highest, classiest, never been to a party as great as a bar mitzvah.

Yeah. To this day. Because when I was a kid, I mean, I was in New Mexico, but they didn't have those themed. It was like, I've heard some crazy stuff about that. That's what my fiance says too.

Because he grew up in Pennsylvania and he's like, mine was at the temple. Okay, calm down. The party was at the temple? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like downstairs, you know? He's like, that's a different thing. So you're engaged to a Jewish guy?

Yes, yes, yes, yes. I mean, I say husband and fiance interchangeably because it's been over 12 years at this point. But yeah. Yeah. So you know. There this point. But yeah. Yeah. So you know. There it is. There it is.

Yeah, of course. But it's just funny because growing up in New York, I didn't know Jews were a minority. Yeah. And as far as I knew, they was everywhere and it was thriving. Yeah. And then he was like, I mean, that's New York. Yeah. That's not the rest of the country.

That's true. You're right. With all this attention being paid to anti-Semitism because there seems to be much more of it, as a Jew, you start to sort of like, really, there's only that many of us? That's not enough. It's not enough.

The numbers are very low. When you look at the percent, it's low. If they really focused. It's scary. It's very scary. What are we going to do? I don't know. Should I buy a bunker?

I've been trying to save money to buy a house, but now I think I should put it into a bunker. I don't know. Like a bunker, that's sort of for like, I think more of an explosive ending. If you're going to get a bunker with a turret and guns. Yeah. If you're thinking of the whole compound. I am thinking compound. I just think that I'm mostly going to be living underground.

You see what I'm saying? Because also, too, think about how that sun is going to kill us all, right? It's going to be so bright. The heat is unending. I want to be under where it's cool. Well, we'll see. All right. Maybe just a rainy place.

I'd settle for water. Yes, just having some fresh. Just having some freshy nearby. Yeah. I get that. Yeah, for sure. Well, you know they say Ohio's where we gothy nearby. Yeah. I get that. Yeah, for sure. Well, you know they say Ohio's where we got to go. Yeah.

Because of the Great Lakes. Is that it? Yeah. Apparently, we're in the middle. They got that lake there, fresh, fresh. Oh, yeah. Ohio. I heard Montana, maybe.

Vermont. They don't want us in Montana. We can go to Vermont, though. Vermont will be good for us, but we'll be freezing. It's going to be cold. Yeah, we'll be freezing. We'll die in the first winter. Vancouver, I like.

Now, does that get really cold? It doesn't get really cold, but it gets rainy as fuck. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. So what happened? So where'd you go to college? So what'd you learn at that prep school? Did you do theater or anything?

Uh, a little bit. I did a very little bit. But that is definitely where I started to get that itch. Like I went and would audition for the play. Yeah. I didn't get in, but that's fine. But then when I got to college, I went to Wesley that itch. Like I went and was like, I would audition for the play. I didn't get in, but that's fine. But then when I got to college,

I went to Wesleyan in Connecticut, Middletown, Connecticut, which is. That's another fancy school. Yeah. Liberal arts, cute,

fancy. It's definitely also to, you know, Wesleyan was like back then when I was a freshman, you know, the gender neutral pronouns were Z and Zier. Okay. What the hell is that?

That was before we were saying they, them. Zier? Z? Yeah, like Z. You mean I missed a whole thing? Yeah, you missed that. That was like beta, you know? What year was that?

2001. Oh my God. I'm really starting to be that guy. Like, what year? When was that? How old are you? How did I miss all of that music? I don't keep up with any music.

I'm definitely, when it comes to all that, I feel, I try to, like, go on TikTok. And I can't. It upsets me. I made an account only because someone was like, there's a clip of yours on TikTok that's, like, going viral, so to speak, whatever. So I said, oh, I better get on TikTok. Right. I can't keep up with that. Who put this clip up?

How does that happen? It was a clip from my late night set that they kind of took down to a minute. It was some account that was like, you know, like Daily Laugh. They just liked it? Oh, okay. They just like found, you know,

they just can kind of put it up. Do they need rights for that or it doesn't matter? I guess not. Yeah. Did it go viral? It got like over a million and people were like funny funny funny and i'm like okay they don't even know it's me i need to get some i don't know

that part mark i've never understood the the businessy part the online part the but you're on instagram right i'm on it but like in terms of you're not making cute things exactly i don't have a concern it's like i'm not sitting there going how do i build this brand i don't either i'll do some live instagrams and hang out but i don't i don't know like the other day i was sort of like do i need to be on tiktok and i'm like i'm 58 years old i mean like the weird thing is is i could probably do something weird enough for kids to enjoy yep but then i'll just get hooked on it it's not going to help me any i'll just be feeding it every day but then also too do you want do you want them to come to your show really exactly i've heard that there are people doing sets specifically to get tiktok videos like they're doing crowd work like i know guys who

have people who open for them on the road who are local comics that just do crowd work with their phone on so they can get t videos. And then repost it. Right, but they don't give a shit about the show. Right, right. They don't give a shit about what it means to be part of the show. Cool. Cool.

Isn't that fun? No. Isn't it cool and great to be here as you watch everything you work towards as a comic just be relegated to nothingness? I just don't even bring opener anymore. I just go on and I just do the long sets. But see, I mean i just i just

want to get to a point and i'm looking forward to a point where i can fill a house of people who are there to just see me right i think it i think it can happen in the major cities you know yeah but i think it's that feeling because i because you know it's interesting because i started stand-up in like oh eight what'd you do in college you i was a film and English major, but I did improv. I did theater. That's where all the acting and everything started. That's where it all popped off.

There was an improv group on campus? Yeah. There were several. Come on now. Liberal Arts College. That had been there for a while? Was there a long running? Yes.

It was called Gag Reflex. We were long running. That's a good one though. That is a good one. It's better than Mixed Nuts. The other one was Desperate Measures. That's pretty good. And then there was a third, and I'm blanking on that.

Were you competing? Was there a competition? Not really, but it was like each one had to do their own kind of thing. We were long form, and they were short form. Oh, so you were doing Heralds? Or no? We were doing Armandos. Oh, yeah.

Yeah, we were doing... And that's kind of how I found stand-up, because that would be the form where someone would give a word, one of us would do a monologue, and then we'd do scenes off the monologue. And I was like, oh, I just want to do the monologue part. That's called Armandos? Yeah. And I was like, that's all I want to do.

Oh, yeah. And I kind of like... You don't need other people. Yeah, and it's also like, these other people are a wild card. Yeah, yeah. Like, once we get into the scene, I'm like, what are you saying? I have no control over the others. Exactly.

I need to just focus on what I'm doing. Exactly. I was like, well. But I still, like, I did improv for a little bit, too, at UCB in New York after I graduated. Partially just this sense of I didn't know what else to do. Like, I was like, what's the outlet? Did you make films in college? We did, like, a couple of shorts.

But I ended up writing. I wrote a, like, screenplay was my thing. A full feature? Yeah. And that was, like, that was my thesis. And that's kind of what I thought I was going to do whenplay was my thing. A full feature? Yeah, and that was my thesis and that's kind of what I thought I was gonna do when it was all over. Did you sell it?

No, I didn't sell it. What was it about? I can't even tell you, it was so bad. It's just like a first screenplay, do you know what I mean? It was like black woman on a journey, like really kind of like. Yeah, where did that journey take that black woman?

Back to herself. It was the worst. Was it a comedy? Yes, it was supposed to be a comedy. It was supposed to be a comedy. Did they grade you well? Of course they did. What are they going to do? What is, exactly?

Hey, black lady, you don't know what you're talking about. Sounds beautiful. It was so funny. My film professor said to me when we were in a, we were having a meeting about the script and I think I had maybe given her an outline. Yeah. And she goes, this is really meaningful.

You know, my sister had a black boyfriend in 1948. And I was like, okay. Oh, so we're like family. Okay,

cool. I think that's a funny part about certain types of white people. I imagine you must. I think you kind of talk about it in your act at some point in one of the Jan and. Susan and Jan. Susan and Jan.

My finest Palm Springs. The greatest Palm Springs. Weird declarations they make to black people to try to make a connection. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. My brother dated a black woman in the 40s. Oh, okay. Congratulations.

Good for you. What have you done for me lately? You know what I mean? Yeah. So when you, now what's your mom, the lawyer, think about all this show business stuff that you're thinking about doing in college? It was funny. At one point I was like like i want to drop my english

major and just do film because it was like i had these maybe two or three english credits where i was like this is a pain in my ass to try to fill them and she was like absolutely not i am not spending money for you to learn about movies nobody needs to learn about movies and she was like you are keeping that english major oh she, she put her foot down, yeah. And, you know, and when I kind of got back to New York and I started doing stand-up and my first job out of college, though, I was an actor with the National Theater of the Deaf, which was based in Connecticut.

What is that? So what? It was children's theater and it was me and two deaf actors and we would travel the country. Do you know how to sign? I do, not as well now, but I did then and I worked as an interpreter for a little bit after. I got out of that after that year. How did that come about?

I literally just got into it. I took an after-school program, and they taught us how to sign America the Beautiful. They were like, we're going to teach you guys this, and you're all going to put it on for the parents. And I just loved it. I was like, okay, we can talk you guys this. You're all going to put it on for the parents. Yeah, yeah. And I just loved it. I was like, okay, we can talk with our hands? Yeah. Okay, this is happening? This is happening among people.

Yeah. And so I got really interested. And then I got to college. I took some sign language classes there. I was a counselor at a camp for deaf and hard of hearing children one summer. And then because I was already at school in Connecticut and the National Theater of the Deaf was pretty close I'd seen them perform and so I also knew when they were having auditions and I was like what else am I gonna do? And so I just auditioned and the next thing you know.

So you're acting by signing? Yeah I was voicing and signing. So for the Deaf actors they'd be signing I would voice their lines in my lines. I would sign and speak at the same time Huh? Yeah. Yeah, that seems like a very rarefied skill No way. I really still liked it. Like I really would like to keep up with it there's a comic in New York named Andrew Fisher who is deaf and He and I would sometimes get together because I was like, I want to sign with someone. And then, of course, we would like talk comedy

and stuff like that. Yeah, just like, you know, meet at a coffee shop and just kind of work it out. And he'd correct me when I was like, what's this word again? Does it evolve signing? I guess there's two kinds, right? There's a standard signing.

Then aren't there two? Well, there's ASL and like signed English. And ASL has its own syntax. Right. Right. And so signed English. Signed English is spelling? then there aren't there two well there's asl right and america and like signed english and asl has its own syntax right right and so signed english signed english is spelling no signed english is like for instance in asl if i wanted to say i went to the store i would say i would sign yesterday store i go right right yeah whereas if i going to just sign to you in English, I would say like, I went to the store yesterday. Okay.

Okay. You know what I mean? One thing at a time. So that's the newer one? It's just like, not newer. I think it's just sort of, you know, deaf people with other deaf people are going to sign ASL. Yeah.

And maybe if you are talking to a hearing person or their sign isn't great, you might sign English with them. Oh. You got to know two languages. Kind of. Basically, right? sign English with them. Oh, you got no two languages. Kind of. Basically, right? Because if you read a book, the book is in English.

The book is in English syntax. Right, right. So you'd have to. I guess we all kind of have to learn a few languages in terms of who we talk to. Well, ain't that the truth? I'm learning,

I'm learning with age to stop changing because I definitely used to change how I interacted, especially with white people. Oh yeah? And now I've just really let it go what's what was the difference I would just rein it all in because because white people are sensitive yeah and so I wouldn't like be as like

I like to tease a little bit yeah I'm a little overly familiar yeah I'm a little like I'll tell you about yourself yeah you know and I used to just really not do that I also used to just be a much shyer person. And now I think I'm just kind of like, whatever. It's funny to me. My audience is, white girls love me, Mark. Sure. And I'm like, really?

Yeah. I thought I was literally roasting you for 45 minutes. Yeah. And yet they're showing up. Sure, they feel seen. And they feel like they deserve it. It's perfect. Finally.

No, I like in your act when you get that anger voice going. You know, it's a deeper kind of ragey thing. Oh, I love anger. Don't it feel good? It's like stretching. It's like stretching your legs when you just get to yell with a talking stick. So, okay, so you graduate, you get your degree in English and film.

Yup, and I do the National Theater of the Deaf for like a year. That's a long time. And then I come back to New York. And what's your mom saying? Get a job, get a job. Did she ever want you to go to law school? Well, she thought, she was like,

you know what, Naomi, with my English degree, that's how I, you know, that's what got me to law school. So you could do a lot with English. So, you know, it was funny because it was like, you know what, Naomi, with my English degree, that's what got me to law school. So you could do a lot with English. So, you know, it was funny because it was like times when I would say I would be between jobs or I would be temping. And, you know, at one point she told me, she was like, I didn't work this hard for this to be your life. And it was like, you know, that to me is the difference between, know again i didn't grow up poor but i certainly grew up with an awareness of what money was and what right the difference between you know

uh it's sort of being awoken from uh the illusion of privilege yes yes yes and just like oh you know the people who are like your 20s are for playing yeah right like some people's parents sure feel that way and are like okay you're just gonna kind of put her around for a little bit and it was very much like you need to work so it wasn't until so i'm doing stand-up right and my mom would ask me about it but then she was you know i'd be like oh yeah i was like oh it's fine i was like oh there's no i was like oh small crowd or no one there you know like a bar show yeah like where were you doing it, though? You were at UCB for how long?

You just took some classes? Yeah, I just took some classes. I would say like a couple years. Long enough to meet the nice Jewish boy. Oh, the guy you got now? Yeah, didn't get out of Dodge. Yeah. Yeah.

But you didn't like the sketch work, that work at all? Oh, like the improv and stuff? Again, as I said, I didn't like having to rely on other people. Yeah, but it didn't help your writing, you don't think? Being around other people? No. Not really? No.

I didn't do sketch. It was just the improv classes. So I felt like, and then the final class I took was me and 14 dudes. Right. That was my very last class. And I was like, nah, I'm done. I'm done here. I cannot continue this life.

Right. Interesting. It was all dudes. Yep. It was just me and the 14 of them and i actually ran into i forget somebody you know here on la and he's like do you remember in our class when we did that scene about a clitoris convention or something and i was like yeah i do he felt uncomfortable it almost feels like there should have been an apology that followed that

question right absolutely it's like and i'm like you know he's like oh my god i'm so embarrassed i was like well y'all really kept at it it's like yeah it was wild where were you doing stand-up at the beginning just mics and stuff yeah mics a lot of you know the east village west village bar shows yeah yeah and i think i got up you know i wasn't someone 2008 yeah 2007 2008 i mean i really would say probably those first five years right like i'm just kind of doing bar shows and stuff union hall and bell house and all that that hasn't popped off yet at that point it was like kind of it kind of came up so merman wasn't doing his thing yet he was no no he right he had his shows but they weren't there yet weren't they at um what was the name i'm blanking on the name of the place for his because i wasn't in with those i wasn't in with those people were they were they

a little older yeah yeah yeah yeah i just talked to somebody else i talked to who was i talking to like there's a whole generation of comics that i just missed because I was, I was already doing this. And like a lot of you, you, you, uh, comics from when I started this in 2009, you were just starting. Yep.

So there's no way for me to know you would have just been like open micers. I know. But now it's like 2022 and you're all grown up comics. So I missed this whole, like now I've got this whole other world of comedians to talk to who actually have chops and have paid some dues. Oh, thank you so much. Well, I mean, because I was listening to you.

And it was, of course, my husband that got me into this podcast. And I would listen to it like, what are comedians saying? Oh, yeah? What are the working guys saying? Did you take anything away from any of that? I mean, to me, I am, if you let me get in the stand up, like talk about it. Yeah, I can get very didactic in terms of like you need to be able to stand up and make a crowd laugh with your words. I don't want to see nothing else. I want to see no PowerPoint presentation.

No, no, no, no. Amplified charm. I mean, you can have your charm. I just want, you know what I also like though? And I do think that you are part of this shift. I like people who are being themselves. I want to watch somebody and get a sense of who they are.

Yeah, me too. And so even if I don't like it, it's like I love feeling like I'm being taken on a ride or invited in. And so I have a hard time connecting with a lot of character stuff

and ironic stuff, which is like not bad, but I'm like, well, it's easy if I just say, LOL, that's not me. Right, right. It's weird. Or just sort of snark even or jokes for joke's sake. It's different.

I mean, like there are guys that I know that whose character, like there's some just joke people, but it's so specifically their point of view, you can kind of see who they are. Yes. But there's nothing better than watching someone being authentic fail. Yeah.

Then you can really get to know that person. How does the authentic guy tank? I love it, though. I did a set last night that was where at Lucy Permanent Records over in yeah I know Permanent Records Lance

the guy who owns it yeah the little blonde haired guy that owns it I haven't seen him yeah the long blonde hair really yeah yeah yeah

I know him for years wait have you done that show or like any show there I've got records there no he asked me to do them I'm like you know dude as much as I love you I think I'm beyond

record store shows I'm not gonna do it I'm just gonna do comedy at the comedy store where comics do comedy you know, dude, as much as I love you, I think I'm beyond record store show. I'm not going to do it. I'm just going to do comedy at the comedy store where comics do comedy. You know what's funny, though? Well, first of all, my very first open mic was at the comedy store in 2005. On a Monday?

A Monday night potluck? Yep. For three minutes? Yep. How was that? Horrible? Yeah, it was so funny because I was visiting LA, visiting a friend, and I had just finished working with the National Theater of the Deaf.

So, of course, my three minutes were just about working with the deaf. Yeah, did you do any sign bits? No, I didn't sign, but I just talked about that. But it was so funny because I went up and I saw these people lining up, and I was like, oh, fuck. I didn't realize that I may not get on it.

And then the woman, she had long blonde hair, older white lady, and she looks at me, she goes, you're pretty. You will probably get up tonight because you have a girl's name. It's like what she said to me, like when they're picking the names off the list. And so I was like, okay, so I guess I'll wait around, right?

Yeah. So I did get up. I did my time. Like two friends who were with me, they came and the few people that were paying attention laughed. Oh, good. So I was like, okay. And that's weird because the potluck, they keep the lights half on.

Yep. Yep. You can see everybody. You can see everybody. You can see everything. Because I actually did a spot on the potluck because I just was there. I got there early and I just went up for a little while, I think, for the fuck of it. Yeah.

But look, I got nothing against alternative spaces. I like the context to be solid. I don't want to struggle for some hipsters anymore. That's so interesting because for me, I find it like, I don't try to go to clubs. Like I've never, and this is on me. I'm like, should I try to get past the cellar? Should I try to like get past the comedy store and all that? I don't want to struggle through people who uh don't have the

decided to just come see comedy today i get it i get there and that's a less of my thing well it's a less forgiving bunch yes they have specific expectations yes yes and if you're not gonna land uh you know a joke every 15 20 seconds yep they're not they're not gonna have patience and that's the thing i like to go on a little journey i know you better relax but at the same time i do feel like for me as a comic where i'm at it's like i need to go into those spaces and stop being so scared because i think it's a holdover of the early days you know it's a holdover of like bringer shows fucking gotham you know like it's yeah that kind of feeling yeah i get it i i mean i you know i came up in a time where you had to do the job so like for better for worse that that put in a lot of work ethic and and also made me sort of

realize not all and i didn't really realize it all the time i was a guy that would like i'd blame them if i if something wasn't working you know you fuckers but you know then you start to as i gotten older now like i can navigate it i can do the thing right that you like to do and figure it out right because if you like you're a writer you beat it out like whatever anybody says about you know you're just telling stories or this or that you know when you have a good story there's a joke every 15 seconds yeah really. And then if you just have that in your head, you know, you can do the other thing. But the problem with the comedy club space, and I imagine it's not just a silly fear, is that it's a attention span thing.

Yeah. That, you know, to do long form shit, you know, you got to hold these people. Yes. Yes. Whereas in a more supportive supportive space they kind of know the school you know the right they're already going to go with you yes exactly they're for the love of the game meaning for comedy itself that's right whereas i often feel like in a club setting they're there for a specific person or the promise of specific people right or or their

idea of comedy uh-huh you know which is the mainstream idea right and then and then also in a comedy club you might have to go up after jezelnik right or sebastian uh-huh you know which to me sometimes it's i still i'm sort of like oh god but but that's something that where even now i have to overcome is that that fear of sort of like just just go up and do your thing, stupid. You're not, you're not 22. You know, you're just another guy. And so if it sucks for a few minutes, so be it. Yes.

And I mean, I will say that like when I bomb now or it's not good, I don't feel bad anymore. And that for me is the sign of maturity more so than like the actual things I quote unquote get, you know what I mean? The ability to like eat it and then be like, oh, I'm fine. Yeah. Whereas before it would be like, kill yourself. over yeah you can't hack it you know um i still get that sometimes like i don't like it when i like i hate the feeling as because as you get older like you realize that like sometimes it's just gonna happen and there's nothing you can do about it it's the nature of the audience yeah yeah it's not either not all audiences are good and sometimes they're just not going to give you the energy

yeah but it certainly stinks to have to stand up there for an hour at that medium energy oh god yeah yeah because you're like this is just it the way it is got nothing to do with you but there's some part of you that thinks you're fucking blowing i know oh god i was at the comedy attic in bloomington this would have been pre-pandemic. I love that place. But when I'm telling you, you know, they had to paper to get people out for my ass, okay? So it was like the Friday late show and it was people who were there because they didn't have to pay and I could

see it in their eyes and I tried to win them over. And when you're just like, I'm just looking at these dead eyes and I got to power through. I got to power through. You feel that sweat on the back of your neck? Had to be the front, the upper lip. It's quick and it's to power through. I got to power through. You feel that sweat on the back of your neck? Had to be the front, the upper lip. It's quick and it's right up top.

Oh yeah, mine's hidden. If it starts coming out of my forehead, we're really in trouble. Well, so you really look back and you kind of avoided clubs. Yeah. And you were able to do it in all those alternative spaces. I was. There were a lot. You know, again, you know, look, I was never a, you know, five spots a night running around. Certainly, I love a two-show night in New York, you know, getting on my train.

When did you start the writing, though? How did you make a living in show business? Well, and this is the question, and this is the thing. You know, sometimes I feel like, you know, and maybe you felt this at some point. I don't know when it was for you, but that sense of, like, when I started, my goal was just to be good at stand-up. Yeah, me too. Just to be an undeniable stand-up. It's still that.

But now, but I felt like in the course of that, it changed. And it no longer, it was now it's like, you can be fine at stand-up. But where's your spec script? Where's your online following? You know, all these pieces now. Yeah. Where's your spec script? Where's your online following?

Where, you know, all these pieces now. Yeah. And I really still feel like it was up until like 2010. You could like kind of get away with just being good. Yeah. Um, again,

coming out of, you know, a film major English and all that. Like I do like to write. It wasn't like it was something I was making myself do, but basically what happened was, so I was working a day job at an art magazine. What magazine was that?

It was called American Artist. And I was the editor of its quarterly watercolor magazine. Wow. That seems very specific and weird. You know, as a kid, I was coming out. I said, fun with gouache. I said, how to make acrylics work. I said, let's go landscapes.

And I had editor's notes and everything, Mark. And I don't know nothing about art. Shout out to managing editor Brian Riley, who I know is listening to this because he would listen to this at work. He would literally be on his spreadsheet. I was like, are you listening to a podcast? He gave you the gig?

He was the guy. But I knew how to write. I knew how to interview somebody and get the basics. I was basically like, tell me how you paint your paintings. Watercolor is nice. It's pretty to interview somebody and get the basics. I was basically like, tell me how you paint your paintings. Yeah. Watercolor is nice. It's pretty. It's non-toxic.

Yeah. And also like, there's a lot of range to it. People who can do that well, watercolor, it's sort of impressive. Because you got to work fast. Yeah. You got to work fast

and to build up color without it getting muddy. Yeah. There you go. You do know. You know your shit now, right? I know. But I got laid off

in January 2013. Yeah. And so, um but i got laid off in january 2013 yeah and so um but around that time again you know i'm doing stand-up bits and pieces and i met and i met alana glazer through that oh yeah and so when and at that time you know broad city is about to become a thing and so it was may 2013 i didn't have a job. I was collecting unemployment. And I was telling everybody, I was like, I'm out here in these streets if you have a job. And she said, so we have this writer's assistant job. If you want to apply for it, I don't know. I don't think it's going to be high paying, whatever.

And I go, honey, if it's more than unemployment, I'll be there. And I didn't know. And to me, it was like, oh, cool. I'll get to work on a TV show. And I didn't realize how lucky I had it to find a writing job in New York I mean did you even know the job of the writing assistant that's sort of a tough job yeah I didn't yeah I didn't just like sit there and write everything that everybody says now I know the room stenographer and also I was older than everybody I was older than everybody really I was 29 yeah so they're maybe 24 5 you know um but i you know i come from having a real

job yeah right like i knew and i had internships and all that kind of stuff so i so i knew but it was also like it wasn't just stenographer that was also kind of the bare bones i was getting lunches and getting groceries and like kind of pa and yeah yeah but that was sort of the entree into that just knowing that world and then from there starting to then like in the next season I was a staff writer

on season two. Did they give you so they gave you a script second season? No. I was a staff writer. Okay. And so that was good

and then it started you know obviously the whole agent and then you start to submit for stuff. That's when you got an agent? Yeah, after. After season two I think.

So you're a writer assistant season one, season two you're a staff writer and then like you got hooked up. Oh yeah. And then you start to submit for stuff. That's when you got an agent? Yeah, after. After season two, I think. So you're a writer assistant season one, season two you're a staff writer, and then you got hooked up. Oh, yeah. And then somebody will come knocking. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, you're working and they come knocking, Mark. And how many seasons you work on the show? Three. All of them?

Three. So where did that lead to, writing-wise, for you? Yeah, writing-wise for me, it then led to I worked on Difficult People for just that first season for a couple of weeks, just more like what they might call like a consulting, you know, like you kind of come in for a few weeks. What show was that? Who was that? Julie Klausner, Billy Eichner on Hulu. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's a fun one.

But that was just a couple of weeks. You know, it was more, again, like giving jokes and ideas and stuff for that. And then I moved to L.A. and like then there was like a long time i wasn't then i was like temping are you doing stand up all through it yeah yeah i learned i had to learn that though like you know what was interesting as a writer's assistant is like i wasn't speaking all day right i'm just taking notes and then i would get up into a show and i was so clunky because i was like this is the first time I'm communicating with people really like substantially. Yeah.

And so I was like, oh, this is weird. And it's always been, you know, I love performing. I love stand up more than writing. And it's always for me about that dance of trying to again, it seemed writing is what kind of pays my bills. Yeah. You know, but stand up is like for the soul. Yeah. kind of pays my bills yeah you know but stand up is like for the soul yeah and so i'm also very particular about what i write on and because you know i don't want to work until 10 11 p.m i want

to be able to do spots you know i want to i want to have a little bit of freedom in my brain have you had one of those jobs where you can't leave the network tv yeah we've done some late night i've done some late nights for which show uh News. That's what moved me out here in 2017. What was that? Season two of that. NBC. NBC. Yeah.

Andrew Martin. Yep. How many seasons did that go? It was two. So you were on the second one? Yeah. So that's like real network shit. I know.

I was like, this is the real deal. I'm in Hollywood, baby. I'm on the lot. Was it a huge staff? I felt like maybe 12 of us. Wow. Yeah. Like a decent number, certainly.

But just like, yeah, learning that like, oh, this is how they do it here. Yeah. You know? And there were some late nights on that. Yeah. And just learning how to kind of balance it all. So then, you know, so I kind of try to like do a room or work on something and then take some months off and try to get into my stand-up again, you know, if I can.

Well, the stand-up that I, like, what'd you do? You did two recorded specials? I did a half hour for Comedy Central in 2016. Right. And a half hour for Netflix this past, that dropped this past December. Well, I saw that one. Thanks, Mark.

Yeah, so the other one, like, how do you feel about the one you did in 2016, comparatively speaking? Do you look at it and be like, I wasn't ready or anything like that? No, there's a difference. Okay. Because the Netflix half hour, you know, I got two months notice to put that together after not performing for 15 months because of a pandemic.

Right. Whereas that 2016 half hour was kind of the culmination. You're working it. You had that work. So I still think I'm like, okay was that was strong that was it this one i think is uh i think it's a little more crafted yeah i mean the new one yeah it feels like a little just more like well you stuck with the one thing for the whole time like you kind of stayed in one one story i tried right to keep someone journey yeah that's what i really like i'm when i'm putting it together i'm

always like well what does this add up to it's like i don't want just like disjointed jokes where like you know you use the laugh to transition yeah because heaven help you if they don't laugh right how do you get there right so i really wanted it to feel bad i felt like that was good the thing too with comedy central you know those goddamn commercials mark i know ruining everything no they cut in the middle of a bit it's hard they're taking out the tags mark do it i know i mean i remember there was one special we shot i can't remember who it was for it was a fucking nightmare though because they actually laid it out they you know before it was the only time this happened and it was the worst where they're like here are the times of each segment so you know you got the pre-thing yep like for a minute and a half and

then you got six yep and then you got six and then you got four whatever the pre thing yep like for a minute and a half and then you got six yep and then you got six and then you got four whatever the hell it is and you're trying to build an act around that i know it's a disaster yeah i had no idea also i knew there'd be commercials i just didn't know they were going to be cutting like that right like i thought if anything they would maybe lift out a whole bit right like and then they could just put the joke in there. But it was like, no, it was like they like in the middle and then come back from the commercial and it picks up where I left off. And I said, what is this flow?

Yeah. The flow is so important to me, Bart. Yeah. Yeah. And I was very upset. I think it was. I did two of those fucking things for Comedy Central. Those half hours.

Whew. Premium blends. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that was what it was. Yeah. That where you have to for Comedy Central. Those half hours. Premium blends. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that was what it was. Yeah. That where you have to think about that. So they fucked you on that.

Yeah, that was tough. That was tough. I didn't know, of course, until it was up. But I was like, oh, that's what I also, again, the Netflix, I said, okay, because I know it's not going to be cut. Yeah, you can just stay with it. I can stay with it. And I can be really specific about how we get from one to the other because I know it's going to matter. Yeah.

And the theme was being in one of those novels. You think you think the theme was Nancy Meyers vibes? Yeah. I think, you know, it's funny. That kept coming back. Yes. The idea of being a Jan. What is fabulosity?

Can I live up to it? Yeah. No, I can't. But we always aspire right and then also what does that look like trying to do that when you are like a black lady yeah you know and yeah uh when you're sad yeah when you're sad all the time you know yeah that's right you did talk about depression a bit right yeah honey you gotta live in your depression mode i mean that's also the thing though when I think about clubs

and stuff and again because I'm not there it could have changed so please tell me I always felt like I wasn't the right I wasn't the black woman they wanted for the clubs in that you want the confident brash lady and I'm literally like I sit in the shower and I'm not doing well

but it's funny though because you have that that's that you have that, that's that, you have that brash lady in you and you use it, you know, deliberately at different points during your set. Yeah.

You just don't live in that. Yes. Yes, exactly. But you have one. I visit her. We visit her. We visit her. Yeah, yeah.

Just to check in, see how she's holding up. Right. I think that with clubs, like I think what you're saying is true that like, if people are coming to see you, then they'll know what to expect. Yeah. I think that with clubs, I think what you're saying is true, that if people are coming to see you, then they'll know

what to expect. But just to do the job, I'm sure you could. I'm sure you're psyching yourself up to a certain degree. No, I know. But it is hard to get through

that first five minutes. I know. Because you could really sink your own boat. Right? I know. You try, you try, you try, and then you just,

some part of you leave oh my god yes do you isn't it wild how you can disassociate while fully talking to a room of people yeah it's been a while but yeah because i can literally be like i'm not here but you know some jokes yeah i'll always know like uh andy my husband he'll know when i when i've jumped ship when i start doing old material right like if he hears a joke from 2018 he goes he's like you left didn't you yeah i'm like uh-huh my brain just went on autopilot and said what's the joke i know well yeah because the alternative is get angry which i used to take as well yeah i'll take i'll do that i used to do that but no i know that feeling where you're like but i can't do it anymore i don't know i'd rather give them some

sort of horrendous experience. Something to talk about. Yeah. Then let me just fail. Right. You know what I mean? Yeah. And pretend like it's not happening.

I've never been able to do that. Like just, you know, don't acknowledge your bombing. Just finish the job. I'm like, no, no, they have to pay. I've been telling them lately. I go, there's something here. Don't you worry. Sure. I go, yeah. I go, okay go there's something here don't you worry sure sure i go yeah i go okay there's something here yeah you don't know yet right but you could say you were here when that's right i do some version of that yeah right where you get the premise out and it

gets enough of a laugh to be like all right well that's uh gonna turn into something not tonight but uh not tonight yeah come back in six months so what what are you doing now what you've got like several oh you got a podcast and so i host a podcast couples therapy with what is that that is a you want to come do it we uh talk about relationships for a little bit and then we answer listeners relationship questions um initially started as a live show where we would have comics do sets together so friends couples exes siblings exes, siblings, we used to do it. We did it in New York at Hi-Fi Bar, which was on the Lower East Side.

I remember that place. And then moved it to the Virgil when we moved here. And then that's how the- Who's the guy that's there with you? The husband, Andy. Oh really? Andy Beckerman, yeah. He's a writer?

Yes, he is. Yeah, I even know that name. Do I know him? Yeah. Probably, I think you did his podcast. I did? Yeah, a long time ago. Wow. Because he'd been doing his since 2010. So did? Yeah, a long time ago. Wow. Cause he'd been doing his since 2010.

So y'all were in the trenches together. That's right. So it's a long time, beginnings. Hmm. And it was like early creative, some memory, probably. Or he's like, I just feel like you've been. In the same circle somewhat. Yeah.

All right, so you do a couples podcast. I do couples therapy. And then I do a, I love a lifetime movie podcast, which is a lifetime movie podcast. Yeah. Recap with A&E. Right. You do it.

Okay. Yeah. You do what you do to make your money. And then- You mean, oh, it's actually an A&E podcast. Okay. Yeah. Huh.

That's starting in the pandemic. Can you be hard on the, not so much. It's a real tricky dance, baby. Yeah. It's a real tricky dance. It's, you know, I think we can certainly, I hosted with the comedian Megan Gailey, who's very funny and I think we can do it.

And, you know, Lord knows they'll cut it if it gets to. Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, I think what it is, is you can definitely make fun of the genre and the aspects of it, right? But certainly don't be like, who wrote this dreck? Right.

You know, like you can't do that. Do you feel like, are you going to go back to New York? I want to. I love it more. I don't, I just, I don't drive Mark Maron. You don't? No. How'd you get here?

I took a lift. Oh, okay. That's why my hair's a mess. He refused to turn on the air conditioner. And the wind just took it away. Oh, sorry. It's all right. We do what we have to do

No driving. I have a license. Uh-huh. I am afraid I am afraid people are lawless here. Okay, they cut mark What's with the turning left on yellow and then red and then you turn right on red? When does the car stop mark? I know when do you stop? I know Mark you just have to get used to it. Mark. Mark. Okay, I understand that. But it's almost like, you know, for instance, getting fit.

You gotta drive offensively. Exactly. But that's how you have an accident. I don't know. You're overthinking it. How long have you been driving? How long did you give it a try for? Not.

Not. Not. Not. So you went and you took your lessons and you got your license. Oh, and I drove for maybe like a couple years because I got the license right before I was going with the National Theater of the Deaf

because we were driving on a tour. Oh, you got a new stuff. So I drove, yeah, so I drove for the tour. Then went back to New York, didn't do anything. And then when I got here, I didn't drive for a little bit. Then I took driving lessons. I did 10 hours. Yeah. With Carlos.

Yeah. Who was very patient. Yeah. But then the moment Carlos was gone, I just couldn't do it. Got spooked. Also, you know, Carlos had us in a ratty, like, 1995 Honda Accord. Yeah. You know, once I'm in the thing I'm leasing. Yeah.

And I'm afraid to scratch it. Right. I said, forget it. I also don't have great depth perception. I'll tell you that right now okay when it comes to turning yeah into a space yeah i'm scraping scraping scraping really all right well maybe you're just not meant to well then how am i meant to thrive in la i don't know i know see yeah see i don't know i i just uh could you go back to new york

i mean what are you doing out here right now? It feels like this is where, I mean, I know, right? Technically, it's not like I have to go into work anywhere every day here. Yeah. But I'm just like starting to get settled. You know, I got the dog, I got the two cats. I know, I know, I know. And I don't know what's going on in New York, but all I know is it's getting dry here. Yeah, yeah.

And it's getting hot. It's humid here. You know, they used to say it's a dry heat, but now it's a humid heat. It's a little humid some days, yeah. Yeah. It's really coming, it's getting hot it's humid here you know they used to say it's a dry heat but now it's a humid heat a little humid some days yeah it's really coming it's coming through so what you don't you're not working on anything now so i just finished shooting season three of mythic quest on apple tv which is a show about a video it's a workplace comedy about a video game company and okay i play the put upon hr lady using the rage that i enjoy so much uh so we finished shooting that and the new season will start in the fall.

I'm honey recording couples therapy podcast, lifetime podcast, writing some scripts. I'm going to be in a little motion picture that drops on Netflix in August. Yeah. I'm trying honey. What movie? It's called me time.

Yeah. It stars Mark Wahlberg, Kevin Hart and Regina Hall. And I play a parent and I, at one point use the phrase, I'll stars Mark Wahlberg, Kevin Hart, and Regina Hall. And I play a parent. And I, at one point, use the phrase, I'll be fucking. Which, you know,

it's not, you know, it's fun. It's fun. What kind of name is Iqparajan? Nigerian. It's a very memorable name. I can't get it out of my head.

Oh, good. You never just, you don't see E-K-P much. I know. I know. I know. That's all I do, you know, when you sign in for something,

I'm like, what's your name? I go, E-K-P. Yeah. That's all you need. That's all I do. You know when you sign in for something and they're like, what's your name? I go, EKP. That's all you need. Do we have to get into everything? And how does your mom feel about your career now? Well, now that she knows I'm working and have money, she's doing great. She's still working? Yep. She's still working. Of course, I do things

that she can see. There's a tangibility in that. But I think it's even more so just feeling like you got money? You good? Because I have it like because i think of course like got insurance exactly it's like what you know and so i think she feels she feels comfortable now knowing okay you can pay your bills and you can do what you need to do sure what about your old man does he know oh he knows well this is the problem with that damn mcparigan name mark and this is what i'm dealing with oh yeah if your last name's mcparigan we're related you know what i'm saying you so like that you're hearing from everybody or they suddenly hearing me right like and that's what's so interesting and tough is like okay as i

become more front-facing so to speak yeah um i start to bring in people or i have to be mindful or how do i tell the story of my upbringing without offending someone else? But that's kind of like, I don't know if I can control that. And so it's just interesting because people are paying attention in a way now. You know, like my grandma in Nigeria, she texted me once.

She goes, say hello to Jew boy, which means she heard Jew boo, which is what I call Andy in my act. She must have heard that somewhere. And you know, she's like 92. So it's fine. Jew boy, Jew boy, which means she heard Jew boo, which is what I call Andy in my act. Yes. She must have heard that somewhere. Yeah. And you know, she's like 92. So it's fine.

Jew boy, Jew boy. Yeah. But it's like, oh, she's hearing my comedy somewhere. Right. Right. You know, you hope. I need those international downloads. I need those international downloads. I mean, it's just like if she just came up with Jew boy on her own.

I need those international downloads. It's just like if she just came up with Jew Boy on her own. But no, it's an interesting dilemma to who has the right to what story about who. Because I've dealt with that with my family too, with my dad, especially. And in a book I wrote where I was kind of honest, but it is my point of view. And when you are forward- facing or whatever you're saying or public personality they don't have any recourse like they can't go wait i'd like to present my side so yeah it becomes tricky yeah yeah but i i'm of the belief though that it is your story and that if you think you're coming from a place that isn't um spiteful right then you can

own that well that's what i'm trying because that's what the new that's what i'm kind of working on new material wise i feel like i feel i'm getting comfortable enough to kind of delve into family things but also for that very reason of you know and i think it's more so to my mom because i think she is a little more not just private because i think there is that little kind of like you know i think that's think there is that little kind of like, I think that's like a black, a cultural thing of like, that's personal, that's family, don't be telling people business.

Unless you do it in a way that you sort of half generalize it. Right. Do you know, like, it seems to me that there are storytellers, even black storytellers, that do it, but either it's a little broad or they kind of you know kind of like we all know what this is when you you know what i mean yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah i'm trying to work on yeah but it seems like if like the but when you

are somebody who really wants to be yourself the specifics become important i was just gonna say i'm like half gentleman the specifics are where it is. I know. I know. And so that's the tricky part. So I am trying to figure out how do I say it. And I think for the most part, because it's funny, because my mom used to say this to me a lot, like if something was happening, like we're fighting or doing whatever, in the middle of a fight, she goes, and don't you put this in your comedy.

Sure. Yeah. She'd always do that. And my response when people say things like that is like, well, then don't be bad. Because you don't talk about the day everything went well on stage. You talk about the day. Sure. Something fucked up happened.

Yeah. Well, that ain't on me. Yeah. I guess you call that, that's what your special should be called. Don't be putting that in your comedy. I just throw them all under the bus. And then when I,

when it's going to be like recorded or something then i think it through yeah and then i usually do it well but see this is the difference now right especially like first of all you've been doing your podcast for over a decade yeah you know this is another way things get like this is recorded sure and now we tell a business yeah but it's a conversation right and it's like you know i was like this is a conversation that a lot of people will hear and perhaps even people who know my family will right like you've got the reach mark you've got the reach well yeah you'll be surprised it'll be you know so it's like interesting so that's why i'm like even as i'm saying as i say things i'm like okay what's real

what's i'm like did i drag anybody did i drag them in a way that wasn't appropriate i think you know exactly but it's like that's what you have to think of even before right not even doing a set sure and i wonder though if you having done this for so long also in a way kind of give you that strength and kind of callous well i don't talk about i'm sort of careful to talk about relationships uh because they all end some not well, you know, and then all of a sudden you just stop talking about it because they don't have, they can't defend themselves or they can't have a place. But I think with family, you know, that shit is dug in, it's done.

And like even, you know, talking, you know, in a surface way about problems, you know, it's got to be okay. Yeah. Because it's sort of what defines this. What, are we just supposed to talk about that in therapy? Right. It is our story. Right.

And, you know, on some level, somebody fucked up. Right. Ain't that the truth? Yeah. So, like, you know, it's sort of like, you know, I got to be honest about this. I'm not trying to hurt anybody. Exactly.

You could have done a little better. Well, for me, it always feels like it's got to be honest about this. I'm not trying to hurt anybody. Exactly. You could have done a little better. Well, for me, it always feels like it's got to be funny as fuck. Right. Meaning, because if I'm going to say something that's going to risk me getting an earful or an attitude from or a stranger. Or not talking to somebody. It better be the funniest version of this in the world. Yeah.

You better be able to live with it and defend it. Yeah. So it can't just be like, you know what happened? It better say something. Yeah. Yeah. you better be able to live with it and defend it. Yep. So it can't just be like a, you know what happened? It better say something. Yeah, yeah. It better do something. That's true. I think that's a good policy. Okay, great. Make it the funniest fucking thing you've ever heard.

And then if it hurts feelings, like, I don't know what to tell you. It's a good one. It's good. It's real good. Sorry. They like it. It's not about you anymore. It's actually bigger than you. Yeah, and it's helping people. Try that one. It's real good. Sorry. They like it. It's not about you anymore. It's actually bigger than you. Yeah, and it's helping people. Try that one. It's helping people.

People feel less alone because I threw you under the bus. Try that one. It's good talking to you. Good talking to you, Mark. Okay. That was Naomi Ickparajan her podcast couples therapy check it out also check her out on these stand-ups on netflix or mythic quest on apple tv plus good talking to her it was a good conversation and if you could uh hang out for a second it's a night for the whole family be a part of kids night when the toronto rock take on hang out for a second.

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Orny Adams is really, quite frankly, a guy who has kind of rubbed me the wrong way and annoyed me for years. And honestly, I'm not the only one, uh but i started to realize like why what work this out the guy's a real comic the guy does the job what is it why it's there's a couple there's only a few people in the world right now that kind of like annoy me and i've not been easy on this guy and it's always been weird and tense. So I said, fuck it, man. It's time. And I talked to him. And it's really, it was like it was one of those episodes loaded with a certain tension. But we knew it was there. It was interesting.

I don't even, I think I was definitely emotionally ready to do this. And he was, I think, pretty excited to do it. Well, I think we have a little bit here. I'll it for you here's the here's the truth i'm shocked i'm here right now like can you explain to me what i'm doing on your podcast i just wanted to i wanted to connect i've been you know i've been hard on you yeah and you know and i knew that like no matter how fucking hard i've been on you uh for no real reason other than you annoy me, that given the opportunity, you would come over here in a second. Well, I did have a conversation with my agents. I'm like, is this a setup?

They go, we don't think he does that to people. Otherwise, you wouldn't get guests. Oh, yeah. But I also feel like there comes a point in your life, like, I feel like as you mature, we're not as competitive as we once were. That's probably true. You're more welcoming and we're probably more similar than dissimilar. So when you looked at Orny Adams in a hat, you said, God damn it, that's me. Well, no, I think that's true.

And that's why I just texted my, you know, when I was talking to my producer, like that usually is why. I mean, I understand we probably grew up similarly you know we we're probably sort of there's some sort of scramble to kind of put ourselves together in a way uh something's missing yeah and and and i i i think i identified your quest for selfhood uh you know through whatever means you had whether it be hats or you know uh acting like other people or whatever as something i i understood yeah i mean i think i was going through a sort of a dark period and so that's where that whole sort of when when was the dark this was after comedian yes exactly so that's that's me and Orny. That'll be on Thursday. This Friday and Saturday, I'll be at Wise Guys in Las Vegas. That's July 15th and 16th. Then I'm back at Dynasty Typewriter for two shows, Saturday and Sunday, July 23rd and 24th.

And then I'll be at Just for Laughs in Montreal for my gala on Saturday, July 30th. I'll also be doing solo shows up there on July 28th and 29th. I think the Mygala, Big Jay Oakerson and Rosebud Baker, the Squire Brothers. There's other people. I'll tell you as we get closer, but they released the list of who's going to be on there. And I'm also doing two solo shows. Did I mention that? On July 28th and 29th.

And I'll announce that again as we get closer. I don't think there's been a public announcement of it yet. Then in August and September, I'll be in Columbus, Ohio, Indianapolis, Indiana, Louisville, Kentucky, Lincoln, Nebraska, Des Moines, Iowa, Iowa City, Iowa, Tucson, Arizona, Phoenix, Arizona, Boulder, Colorado, and Toronto, Ontario, Canada. Then in October, I'm in London, England, and Dublin, Ireland. Colorado, and Toronto, Ontario, Canada. Then in October, I'm in London, England, and Dublin, Ireland. Also, this weekend at Wise Guys in Las Vegas, I'm bringing Povitsky with me.

I'm bringing Esther. You can go to wtfpod.com slash tour for all the dates and ticket info for all of my shows. Also, remind me to tell you about my trip to the Chinese doctor. Remind me, okay? And I'll send you emails to wtfpod at gmail.com. If you've got questions, we're going to reopen some sort of mailbag situation. All right?

All right, here's some guitar. Boomer lives! Monkey, La Fonda, Cat angels everywhere. Thank you.