WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1348 - Orny Adams

Episode Date: July 14, 2022

Orny Adams says that being a comedian is the one thing he knows he’s good at. He also says that being in the documentary Comedian is something that will weigh on him for the rest of his life. Orny talks with Marc about how that documentary largely colored perceptions of him, why Jerry Seinfeld chose him for it in the first place, how his comedy suffered as a result, and how it ultimately led to a surprising career detour with the series Teen Wolf. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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The first 5,000 fans in attendance will get a Dan Dawson bobblehead courtesy of Backley Construction. Punch your ticket to Kids Night on Saturday, March 9th at 5 p.m. in Rock City at torontorock.com. all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fuck nicks what's happening this is wtf my podcast welcome to it um how how are you you're right i want to clear something up a few few people noticed this, and I'm bad with names. Ekperigen. Naomi Ekperigen. I know I said Ekperigen. I know, because it's not a matter of disrespect. It's not even a matter of not listening. I just get something in my head, and I can barely remember names to begin with, and I lock in. It's ridiculous. I have a woman that's going to be opening for me a bit out in the road uh Lara and I still can't do it

right Lara why is that so hard Lara bites Lara Lara Lara Lara Lara wait it's so it's I can't there's just some things I can't I don't know if it's older it's a blame a blame glitch is it a blame glitch it's a brain glitch a blame glitch fuck me naomi ikparigan i'm sorry to her and to the people that that annoyed it annoys me more in retrospect you know it's hard to ikparigan ikparigan it's it's slight but a name's a name look today though listen to me. Today I'm going to talk to Orny Adams. Now, this is sort of a big deal. It's a big deal in a lot of ways in retrospect.

Now, after I've done it, it's a big deal. So Orny Adams has really, I didn't have a beef with him, but man, did he annoy me and rub me the wrong way. And man, was I sort of, you know, kind of just really shut down around him in a bit, a bit of a bully to him in a way. Just I just was really tried to keep him at arm's length. He really got under my skin. And the thing is, I've never denied the fact that he can do comedy. The guy can kill, you know, he kills this guy. But for a decade or more, maybe two decades, he just, every time I saw him, I was like, ugh, I can't take it.

I can't take it. Why? I don't know, because he's a little bit, there's something about him that's fundamentally a little annoying. But I never really talked to him at length. And look, he was in that documentary comedian which did him no favors but i just decided i mean some of you know him from

that most of you know a lot of the older people know him from the comedian documentary jerry seinfeld doc you know he was the annoying guy uh but you know we all had different feelings about you know the attention he got during the shooting that was you were in New York watching it happen but anyways maybe you know him from MTV the MTV series Teen Wolf now this is his this is bread and butter

but you know he can fucking kill with this stand up but he I just he really fucking annoyed me and there's other people that really fucking annoy me and it's like why bother even you know saying that or acting it doesn't matter his it doesn't he doesn't have any impact on my life so i realized recently that it's like dude you know we're getting older let's make this right let's figure it out let's have him over and talk it out and i got much more than i bargained for about really the impact that doing that documentary which does not make him look good and i used to i used to hand

out this article about about him that was written for harpers about the montreal fest uh i think it was called six minutes of funny i used to have it on my hard drive because I think it was one of the greatest articles written about a comic in a horrendous way. But but it was very honest. And I brought that up like it was a positive thing during this interview. And he's like, oh, God, like this guy has had the any. cancel culture this is some other this is not you know doing something wrong this is something hanging over a guy because it made him look bad and it made people think he was annoying and difficult to work with and it's stuck so this documentary he did like 20 years ago has hung over him and when we talk about it i don't know how he dealt with it, really. I do. I'm going to talk to him about it. But, I mean, but it's like he couldn't get out from under it. And it's still sort of happening.

I mean, and I'm sort of, yeah, I'm part of that. I mean, a lot of us comics are like, you know, there's something. Look, you know, he can do the job, but he's like, there's something unnerving about the guy. Very earnest. Works very hard. Very intense. But, you know, there's something about him. And the documentary kind of solidified it. And I don't think he's had an opportunity to really give his side of it or talk about it, frankly. And it just sort of that

happened here with me. I didn't expect that. I didn't know what to expect. And I actually ended the thing, and then we had to turn it back on because there was more. It just ended up, you know, and I just had to, I was really concerned that I would bust his balls or bully him or be a dick to him, which I've been for 20 years. I had to fight it. I laughed, cried instead. I kind of laughed cried instead but anyways this as a in terms of being a comedian interview this is sort of this is a big one it's a big one

and i just i just said like fuck it i'm gonna have him on and get to the bottom of this all right look so i back from albuquerque and uh, and I'm flabby as fuck. I never feel great. And I don't know if you know this, but like seven or eight months ago, it's a long time ago, I went to some holistic practitioner, a Chinese medicine doctor who's not Chinese. But I got referred to him. A guy knew a guy, I think it was Flanny at Largo, said, I can't remember which celebrity friend of his went to this doctor to just get a tune-up.

Look, I'm not all in Western medicine. I have an open mind, but I also know that you have to have a regular doctor and then you can do this nonsense. And I'm not saying that in a condescending way. But I went to this doctor with the general he's like what's right away the guy's in my face he's like what can i what is it what's going on with you he's like he's all in you know he's like he's charming he's doing this dance it's like what can i what are we gonna fix where are we going with this what's going on tell me your life what do you got and it's like it's a lot of juice it's a lot of sales juice but we

laid out. I said, well, I don't know. I just don't feel great. You know, I'm 58. And I told him, you know, we went over some of the, from my health records. I brought all my tests to him. So this was the idea that this guy's going to do every test of everything to check all the levels of all things. This is the, this is the sham of it.

But also, look, man, if you believe, you believe. Right. I'm not shitting on the guy. All right. I like the attention. I enjoy taking tests. I enjoy numbers of like, what are the tests show? So finally, all these results come in and he's got this stack of papers and he's going through the papers.

He's got a magic marker and it's a great stick. It's a great stick. He's like, look, this is going on, this is going on, this should be higher. It's like, what does that mean? It's like, it could influence this. Your benefit, one of the good things, your genetic markers are okay

because you got some of this, but you don't got that. This balances out. And then he starts going through these papers like, look, your level's a little high. We could change that. This needs to come up with glucosamine, this trimictophan, and it's sort of like you know you're flicking the ginkg

that could be better if we added a little this because this has a profound effect on you know how you move your thumb you know it's just like it gets very specific a lot of papers you know he's going through them he's throwing the papers on the floor he's saying we got to get you on this we got to get you on that and I just like, and I'm looking at him and I think he kind of knows. He kind of knows that I know that he's fucking, you know, I know he's hustling me. I know he's scamming me a little bit, you know, but this is it, man. This is the sales pitch. Like I got a lot of papers.

I got a magic marker. I got numbers. I got indicators. I got, I know what these things mean. It's like, you need more of this because this affects you that but i'm one of these people that even though i know i'm probably gonna try it anyways it's like i know you're fucking with me but okay fuck with me i don't think that's being a complete mark okay i think there's a difference between like a guy going like, really? Wow. And all right. Yeah, all right.

Yeah, I'll do it. I'll try it. It's not going to hurt me to try it. There's a difference. Full mark is no kidding. So if I taped it, geez, this is amazing. So how did I not know that I need to take, you know, 40 pills a day, you know, because all this stuff. That tone. And this one is like, fuck, that's a lot of bullshit and uh all right but let's do it i'm here i'm halfway in let's go the

whole run so now i'm out like two grand over the you know however many visits i've had and a bag full of supplements and i'm sitting there like an idiot, taking them some in the morning, some at night thinking, what thinking, what am I waiting for? And what, whether he thinks I knew was onto his bullshit or not, I'm sure,

you know, given that those supplements probably cost him a nickel and that, you know, whatever it took to print that. I paid for the test. I paid for print that. I paid for the test. I paid for the visits. I paid for the vitamins. And I think he gets some back end on the fucking testing.

So like that guy still walked away with a couple grand and me. I had a fucking hover over a French fry tray and shitting it and then put that into a fucking cup of liquid of some kind. I had to pee. I had to some kind. I had to pee. I had to take blood. I had to, you know. Yeah. A French fry tray. That was how specific this was.

I don't even know what we learned from that. And I'm sorry if it grossed you guys out. All I know is that I'm taking a lot of supplements. And I can honestly say, I'm not sure I feel better. And that guy just made a couple grand who cares if i come back look orny adams he's at the hollywood improv this weekend july 15th and 16th his podcast is called what's wrong with orny adams get that wherever you get your podcast. And this is me having a not tense, but at times awkward and revealing conversation with Orny Adams. We can wait for clean water solutions or we can engineer access to clean water. We can acknowledge indigenous cultures or we can learn from indigenous voices.

We can demand more from the earth or we can demand from Indigenous voices. We can demand more from the earth. Or we can demand more from ourselves. At York University, we work together to create positive change for a better tomorrow. Join us at yorku.ca slash write the future. Be honest. When was the last time you thought about your current business insurance policy? If your existing business insurance policy is renewing on autopilot each year without checking out Zensurance, you're probably spending more than you need. That's why you need to switch to low-cost coverage from Zensurance before your policy renews this year. Zensurance does all the heavy lifting to

find a policy, covering only what you need, and policies start at only $19 per month. So if your policy is renewing soon, go to Zensurance and fill out a quote. Zensurance, mind your business. Where do you live? Do you do a podcast? I do. You do? I do. I live... we all do now, right? Yeah.

I mean, you get it. I get it. I started it. I agree. I agree. And I actually commend you because I think it's remarkable what you've accomplished now that I've tried it. Yeah.

The one thing I've learned from doing my own podcast is I now have respect for the radio people that I shit on on the road for so many years. It's true. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's a weird talent. It's a specific talent. I mean, I think I always had a certain amount of respect for the guys that did that. Well, you know, there are guys that were annoying. There's a lot of ego to it. And, you know, God knows with people like you and I, you know, there's instantaneous ego battles with anybody assuming a position that we're like that. And there's something particularly annoying about radio guys. Right.

But when you were on one that worked, it was elevating. I mean, like to be in what I did morning radio for a year or two. Right. So to be on a morning crew where you got to keep that juice going right and i thought the thing that changed my mind about it was uh i knew when we had a guest on that the last thing you wanted was them to fuck up the momentum right so if you've got a vibe going and a comic walks in he's like no no it's like oh fuck right he just fucked up the whole group so i had respect for the job but some of them got a little shitty about podcasts so i still have a resentment towards the ones that are sort of like

these podcasts right right i i agree so i do mine out of a uh in my backyard i've got a shasta trailer uh-huh like a vintage and i converted it into a podcast what is that like a air an airstream it's sort of yeah chassis you can look at chassis. It's a very mid-century modern. Okay. Very cool. So a trailer that you'd have to hook up to a hitch, or you drive them? Hitch. Okay, I know what kind they are. They're kind of like, they've got a little curve to them, but they're not Airstream ones. They're not fully curved, but they have a little curve on the top.

To be honest with you, I haven't thought about the curvature that much. I haven't inspected it. I can just look at it. You can look at it, yeah. Yeah, okay, so you you got it set up up there yeah it's in it's uh it's intimate and cool but you know I don't do a lot of guess I'm sort of shy about that and you're not you're not living in the trailer no I'm not living although people think I am it might come to that so I have it if it does come to that

I'm ready yeah and it might yeah but here's the thing so I started doing it that's what I'm ready. Yeah? And it might, yeah. But here's the thing. So I started doing it. That's what I'm thinking of, yeah. It's got a little curve on the back to it. Yeah, it's yellow. Okay, yeah, like this kind of thing? Yeah, yeah. Okay, okay. Yeah, that's cool. But so when I do it, and you can help me with this,

I'll sit there and talk to myself for an hour, which is really, that's borderline, you're going crazy. No, well, that's the big trick, man. Yeah. That was the big shift for me, is can you sit on a mic by yourself I mean that really separates the men's from the men from the boys right in broadcast uh-huh can you be compelling by yourself on a mic you know alone for an hour sure I mean you've decided that but okay right and here's the thing so I. So I do it, and I go, that was great. And then I go back and listen.

I go, I can't believe how uninteresting I am. Like, in the moment. So it's finally you've realized. I have. I have. All these years. I thought I deserved more in this business. I've come to realize I really don't.

I'm where i should be oh come on your stand-up's always strong thanks yeah but uh so so do you find what have you found from doing the podcast i mean like do people listen to it maybe you shouldn't listen to yourself i think i've what i treat it as is sort of like a companion piece for my stand-up so if you enjoy my stand-up this is me sort of dissecting it. I think it's too serious. So you're doing like, what do you call it, commentary on your bits? Sometimes I am, and sometimes it's on the world.

Sometimes it's on crazy stories. Do you play the bit and then do the commentary? Sometimes I do, yeah. Why does this amuse you so much? Sometimes I have to break down something that went wrong or, you know. And that's what you're doing? So you really- No, that isn't the theme of the podcast.

No, I get it. But what's funny to me is that it's like, it's just so up your own ass in a way, right? Not in a bad way, but I mean, but like, you know, what you're doing when you sort of sit there with your own bit and talk about the bit and where the bit comes from, it just it's sort of it's your own bubble. I mean, you might be right. It might be why no one's listening. I don't I don't know. Listen, I'm open to criticism for sure.

Here's what I this is what I've sort of figured out or deduced in life. I'm good at one thing, according to me. Is that true? Stand-up comedy. That's it. Is it? Yes, I believe that's all I'm capable of. I don't know if I agree with you.

It might be all you do. I'm the same way. I mean, that's the thing I do. Right. But I imagine I'm capable of other things. You're a bright guy. I don't know. I've tried a lot of other things.

Like what? Whether it's creating shows, whether it's- What relationships i just i'm good stand up i'm in control i feel good and so why not why not discuss this on the podcast what it's the only thing i can give the world is an explanation for what i'm doing up there but that's not the theme of the pod right i love you so much i just love i knew you'd find something what are we five minutes in the whole way like this morning i'm like i better find an outfit that's not gonna upset mark i don't want to trigger him i don't want to uh upset him well i was i i wondering i was wondering what you were thinking coming over here and i was like sort of like do you do you have anything you need to uh to address we'll get to in a second but let me finish this when I initially created the podcast what's wrong with

Orny Adams I was going out on the road was this before the problem with Jon Stewart did I have a problem with Jon Stewart no no his show is called the problem with Jon Stewart and you're yeah you both you both seem to be in your own echo chamber around your work. You know, sometimes I discuss John's bits on my show, too, and I break them down. Yeah? Yeah, I do. Do you? No, I don't. I don't.

That would mean you'd have to listen to him. Yeah. I didn't even know he had a podcast. No, it's a TV show. It was on fucking HBO. I don't know if it's still on. Yeah. No one knew.

He's one of us now. He's just walking among the marginally well-known mortals. Happens fast. Happens fast. Well, he chose to try to come back. Right, right. Like, you know, why not go out of myth? Yeah.

Why come back and have people go like, oh, my God, what happened to that guy? Right. You got to do sort of like Letterman, but Letterman's sort of tiptoed back. Well, yeah, but Letterman's just sort of an old beautiful soul now. He still interviews outside. Yeah. It's great. Yeah, he's a sweetheart.

Yeah, well, it's fortunate that you never got huge because- Yeah. Yeah, that's what I think. I wouldn't be able to handle it. Oh, gosh. I wouldn't be able to handle it. You could barely handle almost getting huge. Barely huge, I can barely handle.

I could barely handle barely huge, yeah. Okay, so what were you saying? So I was going out on the road, and I was recording really interesting conversations. Yeah, with who? And this is how lofty. It would be like I would talk to drivers, and they always had interesting stories. Like sometimes they were Coke dealers before they became drivers. Sure, yeah.

Some of them have been arrested in jail, accused of murder. And I'd sort of start talking to him and I had my Zoom just like you. And I said, can I record this? And then I would turn it into like these lofty sort of, I thought I was like NPR bits. I do like interstitials in between. It was at this moment, Sean realized, come on, you don't think this is going to be a hit? this moment, Sean realized, come on, you don't think this is going to be a hit? No, I mean, you tried stuff. There's nothing wrong with trying stuff. Yeah, yeah. But you were doing it seriously, earnestly?

Yes, I was. I was. And it would take months to edit and then have music made for it. I mean, I pumped a lot of money into it. Oh, my God. Yeah. It reminds me of the process of you writing in that old movie. That's how you approach everything.

Yeah. Well, here's the good news. Yeah. It took me barely succeeding, instead of saying failing, barely succeeding at a podcast to respect you, Mark. Oh, yeah? That's what it took. I go, this Mark Maronon he did it god bless him you

never respected me before no i did i to be honest with you and we get back to i know where you're leading into why would you why would you respect me i was such a hard i was so hard on you and such an asshole to you well you want to we can discuss i'll preempt that by saying i have always respected your comedy. Okay. I really do. Well, thank you. And so get into that, because I want to hear what you have to say about it. What?

About what? Our relationship. Oh. Our friendship. Well, I think what it was, it happened even before. I was annoyed by you before Comedian, like before the movie. You were like an early adapter. Yeah, I was.

But it was not, you know, I think when I look at it in retrospect, and I feel bad about it, but the thing was, I don't know that because you're sort of, you have a certain amount of fairly, you know, effective, you know, narcissistic blinders up that I'm not sure I was really landing any punches when I was being a dick to you. I think you probably just thought like, why is that guy being a dick to me? Yeah, I couldn't figure it out. Like I remember one time, one time we were at the improv and I go, look at Mark. He came over to me and you were so nice to me.

And like you almost made it through being nice to me yeah and like you almost made it through being nice to me and then you walked here's the dismount i go he did it and then you turned around yeah and you had to say something you had to yeah what who are you imitating now bob dylan like you had to right right yeah what must be what you were wearing yeah well what was it the hat maybe the hat maybe i didn't know you followed my career so closely the hat phase well i just remember you in the hat at montreal it's it's not that i follow your career but like like i see you and the thing of that it's the same with you know berbiglia you know for me you know like there's something that that fundamentally annoys me about him

and i can't i i don't know what it is i don't i don't know if it it's it it's person it's me you know it's not them you know i don't have it but you know i've spent the you know years it's uh in some ways you know honoring my feelings around people which is being a dick to them right but what i don't understand is why do you feel the need to say it like i think that too i I go, look at Mark. Who does he think he is? John Lennon? But I don't say it.

I think it. We'd have to figure out how to say it to me. But I wouldn't want to. Really? Well, because we're not like busting ball comics. Like, we're not like- I've gotten more that way with certain people. Okay.

Well, there's certain people that I have that I could do it with, and they just get a kick out of it. But it's not my nature, because I'm always a little too vicious. Yeah. Yeah, but there are certain guys that I could just bust balls with, and I'll take it from them.

I don't know. They're just like Godfrey. I'd bust Godfrey's balls all day long, because he just gets a kick out of it. But you're not going to get a kick out of it. You're going to take it personally. No, at this point, I don't think so. Why wouldn't you say who's he think he is, John Lennon?

You've never said anything mean to anybody? Behind your back, I do. The minute you leave, I call my crew. I go, yeah, I got a Marin update. Yeah, now I've upset him by my hat. Tell me about your crew. I got a crew. Don't mess about your crew. I got a crew. Don't mess with my crew.

You got a crew? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. How many guys in the crew? Between all of us, we have 1,000 listeners on all our podcasts. That's my crew. The Orny Adams crew? Yeah. No, we all have our friends that we call after the Friday second show's set.

The audience sucks. Nobody shows up. You do? You call people i used to i don't anymore i uh like i if i have a woman in my life i'll i'll give it to them but but uh you know generally i kind of you know it's it's weird the the club life but okay do you find that the women get it that you did when you complain about stand-up and i'll tell you why i don't you know it's i i'm only recently getting you know sort of more adept at uh you know properly empathizing for

for women especially the ones i've been with you know because i've not been the greatest guy in the world but as i get older and as i learn more things i've gotten much better and I can see them as separate human beings and not just were separatals for my garbage sure so whether they get it or not I think they get they get they get struggle and and most of the time I'm yeah I would say for the last decade or so you know I I'm generally with fans yeah interesting yeah yeah you know I want to be loved and that's the most I guess I Yeah. Because you want to be loved and that's the most I guess I kind of want to want to be loved,

but I like to be appreciated. Right. And, you know, and also there's a shorthand to that because they know a lot about me. Right. But it's a good way

to lose fans too. Yeah. One at a time. But you have plenty to lose. You have plenty to lose. But I see that as a liability when they adore you. I'd rather be with somebody that knows nothing about comedy, doesn't care about comedy. Well, God forbid they bring up another comedian I can't stand and they think they're funny.

That's a nightmare. Yeah, well, I have a problem with that sometimes. It's not a nightmare. But I'll be like, you know, really? Orny Adams? Yeah. Tell me why why you're an early adapter being annoyed by because i feel like there may be other people

out there like you but i think i divide there are there's my boys my crew your crew who's who's in that crew there's a lot of us man okay. Okay. The Largo? I'm sure the talk at Largo is not good. The Largo. Listen to you. You've played there, haven't you? No, I haven't. You do fine there. Yeah.

What's the problem with the Largo? Why do you think that's a separate world? I'd love to do Largo. Nobody's asked me. Oh. Yeah. I don't. Here's the truth.

I'm shocked I'm here right now. Can you explain to me what I'm doing on your podcast? I just wanted to connect. I've been hard on you yeah and you know and i knew that like no matter how fucking hard i've been on you uh for no real reason other than you annoy me that that given given the opportunity you would come over here in a second yeah well i did i did have a conversation with my agents i'm like is this a setup? They go, we don't think he does that to people.

Otherwise, you wouldn't get guests. Oh, yeah. But I also feel like there comes a point in your life, like, I feel like as you mature, we're not as competitive as we once were. That's probably true. You're more welcoming, and we're probably more similar than dissimilar. So when you looked at Orny adams in a hat you said god damn it that's me that's my well no i think that's true and that's why i just texted my uh you know when i was talking to my producer like that usually is why i mean i understand

we probably grew up similarly you know we we're probably sort of there's some sort of scramble to kind of put ourselves together in a way uh something's missing yeah and and and i i i think i identified your quest for selfhood uh you know through whatever means you had whether it be hats or you know uh acting like other people or whatever as something i i i understood yeah i mean i think i was going through a sort of a dark period and so that's where that whole sort of when when was the dark this was after comedian yes exactly well let's go back because i think the first time i started like the first conversations i remember having about you really you started at the same time as my ex-wife really you guys were contemporaries you and mishna right and you used to do shows together i think when you were starting out in new york

i don't remember new york no oh really no but she was always sort of like you know he's all right and i'm like is he did i lead to the the breakup of your marriage oh please tell me it was over me oh no i i did that i did no no i i led to the breakup of my marriage but it was one of those things like you're talking about. Like, you know, she was like, okay with you. And because you guys were contemporaries. And I was like, that guy's annoying. Who does he think he is? You had this like this swagger, this cockiness that I'm sure I had.

But mine was angry. Yours was just sort of like, of course I'm here. Why wouldn't everybody love me? And I was like, you can all go fuck yourself. You don't get it. It's a different approach, but similar roots, I think. Yeah. Where'd you come from?

Boston. Oh, really? Yeah. So you grew up in Boston? I grew up outside in a town called Lexington, Massachusetts. I know Lexington, yeah. Birthplace of American liberty. Yeah?

Yeah. And you? We'd watch the reenactment of the revolution every April. You were born in Lexington? Yeah. Huh. Born and raised. I'm trying to remember because I started my stand-up career doing one-nighters in New

England, so I'm trying to remember if there was one in Lexington. Never in Lexington. No way. No liquor license. You'd be surprised. Oh, is that true? Oh, there might have been like a grill. Right.

There was like, I don't know, a place where you throw popcorn on the floor. Right. That chain. You mean like peanuts on the floor?, a place where you throw popcorn on the floor. Right. That shame. You mean like peanuts on the floor? That sort of buffoonery. Yeah, yeah. Those are the kind of places. Yeah.

So you grew up in like, what was your father doing? My father, and I don't talk very much about my family. I'm very sort of private, which is another reason why. Is it private or you just like to talk about yourself? No, I just feel like I want to protect them. It's none of their business that I went into this. Okay. Yeah.

No, my dad worked for Polaroid my entire life. I was always around cameras. Yeah. And then he left Polaroid and started a company doing focus groups for juries, big cases. Really? What a weird job transition. No, because at Polaroid,

he was doing marketing research for them. So that was his skill set. And my mom, my mom, a kindergarten teacher. Wow. So you were like, this noise is a big part of your childhood. I love it. I love it. And just like they're coming out. The SX-70, that must've been a big day at your house. Well, you know, like your family where they're like, Mark, stop taking pictures. It's a dollar a picture. at your house. Well, you know, like your family where they're like, Mark, stop taking pictures. It's a dollar a picture. Oh, right.

Right. We had piles of film everywhere. It's a dollar a picture. Were they good pictures? No. They were of themselves. It was a thing. Well, let me explain to you.

There was a time that we didn't have digital instant photography right on our phones. Sure. So the excitement of watching something come into focus yeah was really cool and my dad was fascinated by the chemistry behind how land the guy who started polaroid figured out how in one in a like one sheet that came out of a camera this thing took the picture and developed yeah the technology blew him away yeah no it's it's interesting and then artists picked up on it and there was ways like if you had the older ones be if you had the ones before the sx70 you could kind of manipulate the surface on them with a with a pen or a pencil before you

peeled off the thing i remember them from i was a very uh young kid because i'm older than you but not by much but um but i remember my grandparents had one of the land cameras where you had to pull the whole piece out yeah and kind of wait with it for like two or three minutes, I think, before you peeled the gunk off. Probably black and white, too, right? There were some black and white ones, yeah. And then that stinky gunk that was on there, you had to throw that away because it was toxic. And when you're a kid, you're always wondering, what's in the little squirty pack inside the process? Right.

But it was nasty. But those pictures were kind of cool. And they were kind of cool and they were kind of groovy by the time i was in high school if you could get hold of one it was kind of cool and arty to have and warhol i was watching that documentary you know he would take pictures with a polaroid then he would you know turn it into a screen yeah on a shirt and paint it right the silk screen yeah yeah so you have you have brothers and sisters two sisters older i'm in the middle you're in the middle and they're all, you know, my entire family is, I call them normal.

They all live within a mile or two of each other. Oh, that's nice. In Lexington. They got kids, the sisters? They have kids. I have nieces. I have nephews. Oh, yeah.

I don't, you know, it's, and they're together all the time. You get along with them? I do. Huh. I talk to them, you know, like my my dad we were going back and forth uh watching the tennis oh yeah you know wibbleton today i talked to my family every day really yeah well that's nice and your mom is a kindergarten teacher she doesn't teach anymore does she no no everyone's retired and bored are they they're so bored they're like please drop the grandkids off really

that's how oh that's what they do well that's nice for the sisters to have all that and unlike me they're very social so when did you like when you were a kid in this well-adjusted jewish right jewish family sure it'd be bar mitzvah and everything yeah i mean yeah very yeah not religious but uh very into the faith yeah yeah yeah uh in in what way ritual yeah i mean i think socially too like we were always at the temple we had jewish friends uh it was school friends yeah you still got them college friends i do no hebrew school friends some of them but not as i'm not as connected i didn't love i i mean i still like i've got to do a show next week and i have to wear a suit and it drives me nuts it reminds me of get your suit on and get to temple. Uh-huh.

And I remember there was one week either I grew or I ate. Your one suit. Yeah, I ate too much and it was tight. And now that's my biggest fear every time I get into a suit. Oh, yeah? Is it going to be tight? I think that's another thing we have in common is food issues and body dysmorphia. Absolutely.

You're a vain motherfucker. No. I have a Jewish metabolism. Oh, yeah your but did where was the input did was there food in the house I mean is there somebody of course is food in the house but you come from like a healthy eating family no I mean I don't think in particular but they're always red foods always ready to go. Like during the pandemic, I flew home like right at the beginning, like in the 2020s. I was going to miss my first Thanksgiving ever, which was mandatory.

Yeah. At your folks' house. Yeah. So I flew to Boston with three masks on and with the sprays and everything. And I rented a car and I didn't tell anybody because I didn't want them to be worried about me flying. This is before the vaccine. This is before we even knew what it was.

And I flew home and I called my parents from the front yard and I said, what's for dinner? And they said, we're having fish. I go, I don't want fish. I want brisket. They go, oh, we wish you were here. I said, open the front door. And my mom almost passed out.

My dad had to catch her she burst out crying and i drove to my she goes go surprise your sister i did it at my sister's houses too same thing by the time i came home yeah she had a full brisket dinner yeah with all the accrued demands and everything just ready to go oh nice and that's that's what i grew up yeah yeah she could cook she could cook that's nice but what's what's grew up with. Yeah. She could cook. She could cook. That's nice. But what's interesting is, and I don't know if you felt this way, I felt uncomfortable. My legal name is different than the name that I've- What is it?

It was Orenstein, Adam Orenstein. Oh. And I changed it to Orny Adams because why does this make you laugh again? You hate every form of expression I do. How is that not funny to hear someone's real Jewish name? What we're missing

is the, without video, the passive aggressivity. It's not passive aggressive. How is that not funny? What am I supposed to just take, like, you know,

like from Ornstein, you get Orny Adams and be like, oh, okay. But I'm trying to create a tender moment for us. It is. So I didn't like, like, is her real name

Maren or is it Maren Witts? No. Was it ever changed? No. Huh. It's weird. It goes all the way back to, is her real name Marin or is it Marin Witts? No. Was it ever changed? No. Huh. It's weird. It goes all the way back to, I did that show Finding Your Roots. It goes all the way back to fucking Belarus in the 1800s, Marin.

Wow. Yeah. So I didn't like that I was immediately identifiable as being Jewish. Of course. I mean, I understand that. Jeff Lifsholtz, John Leibowitz. I forget what Jerry Lewis's real name is. It's not unusual.

But now I kind of want to be identified as Jewish. Well, maybe you should change your name and make that the topic of your podcast. What about Orny Marin? What do you think of that? That's my biggest nightmare. We'll call this episode of the podcast that. Orny Marin. So you want to change it back to what is it?

Adam Orenstein? What's your first name? I wouldn't change it back, but I don't- What's your first name? Adam. It was Adam Orenstein became Orny Adam. Well, that was a clever switch. Yeah.

Now, what does your mom call you? Adam. Or Boychick. Boychick, really? Boychick. So you had grandparents that were first generation immigrant kind of thing? I think they were second. Oh, yeah?

Yeah. Were they in Massachusetts too? Massachusetts, yeah. I think they were second. Oh, yeah? Yeah. Were they in Massachusetts, too? Massachusetts, yeah. Boston Jews, man. The best, right? I used to work at a deli one year in West Roxbury called Gordon's Deli, and I didn't realize that there was that.

Just those old generation of Boston Jews who were immigrants immigrants just like in new york you always identify it with new york but it's a whole different culture yeah there's four different kinds of rye bread in massachusetts the ones with seeds the one without there's sisal rye with the seeds there's light rye which is white rye there's dark rye which is dark rye and there's pumpernickel four i had four at the fucking store we had tongue we had brisket it was real old timey this must have pissed you off. Huh? Four different kinds. No, it was fine.

It was like a new education. It was just a way of phrasing. Where'd you grow up? New Mexico. From Jersey. My family's from Jersey. Why are we in New Mexico? Is somebody have allergies?

No, my dad, you know, he was in the service when he did his residency as a doctor and he wanted to start a practice and he had a friend who had moved to

albuquerque and it was a growing city so he was like let's let's do it there what kind of doctor orthopedic oh surgeon interesting yeah i'm having knee surgery this month hammers and nails by hammers and saws i'm ready is he still practicing no he's still in albuquerque he's slowly losing his mind yeah but uh but both your parents are healthy? Yeah. So when do you start? How about yours? Both healthy?

Well, my dad's got the, he's starting to lose it a little bit. My mom is dizzy, but she's okay. Okay, okay. I don't know. How wonderful that they're still alive and still married?

No, not married. Still married, no. They're all right. You know, they're old. My dad's 83. My mom's 80, I think. What the hell are your parents? Right there, 80. My dad's 83. My mom's 80, I think. How old are your parents? Right there, 80.

My dad's about 80. And he's got his marbles? Yeah, for the most part. That's good? Sure. I mean, some days he's really with it. Other days, I feel like, you know, depends, I guess, what time I call. Yeah, well, that's true.

So when do you start realizing? But I do feel so lucky that my parents are alive. Well, it seems like you grew up with everything you needed. Sure. You were the boy where you always thought of as the golden one? No, not even close. All right. No, my family, they would pick on me nonstop.

Really? But that's my family. It's just fun. My family would laugh. When we get that's my family. It's just fun. My family would laugh. When we get together, we laugh. We're the family in the restaurant that people are like, what's going on over there? And could they be quieter? Yeah.

So anything. You know, like when I graduated from college and I wrote, I had a resume and I had a cover letter and I sent it out to about 100 different corporations looking for a job. What did you study? Political science and philosophy. So what kind of jobs were you looking at? I can't remember. I actually think I was looking for advertising, doing copyright. So when you were in high school and stuff, you never did any performing of any kind?

No, just in college. But I sent out this letter. And the final line, instead of thank you for your consideration, the typo was thank you for you consideration so now every time we get together you know it's you know can you pass the turkey at that thank you for you consideration so it's like you know still being mocked for that yeah yeah still still wild and i never had i never got a job i never got a job offer i've never i've only lived off of stand-up comedy. Well, okay. So you go to high school, no performing. I played a Rolling Stones song in a talent show. You play guitar?

No, I'm horrible. Oh, but you used to. No, I was horrible. Oh. But I tried. And you're a beautiful guitarist. That seems to be a theme. Yeah.

Hey, now that we're bros you can bust balls all you want thank god I've been waiting my whole life for this are we going to be friendlier to each other when we see each other at the clubs we're going to revert back to awkward in the green room we'll be better this is like a first step okay

it's so persistent I want to be your friend mark no no i don't okay i don't want to be your friend you can be like the other fellas you know that i see you know not be mean to okay the thing i can't like do you feel bad when you're mean to somebody like do you go home like an like an addict and go did I do that? Or are you a sociopath and you lack empathy? No, I don't lack empathy. I do feel bad sometimes, you know, and I, more so, I always feel a little bad. But I also try to write a line where, and there's not many people I bully anymore. You just happen to be one of them, but I don't do it that much anymore.

I just give you stink eye and fucking, you know, and don't engage with engage with you right i don't think you've bullied me uh in a long time no i haven't and by the way i'm pro bully i i was bullied in high school and i think it makes you a stronger person it doesn't it doesn't it doesn't no it doesn't i don't think so i i think what it does is make you doubt your own vulnerability and And, you know, if somebody bullies you and they hurt your feelings, it may make you more resistant. But I don't think it makes you feel good about your feelings. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? I don't know.

I feel like I've been, I felt like I was bullied many times in my life. Really? When? In high school? High school. For what? Were you fat? No, you just sort of got picked on.

I don't think there's anything specific. But it's not like bullied. I was much like... Well, go ahead. So this has happened your whole life. No, it hasn't, Mark. Don't make excuses for your... You've been annoying people since you were a child and you don't think

what's funny is you're deflecting on how annoying you are sure i i think i'm intense i don't know if i'm annoying do i i wonder if i'm annoying i think i'm in a little too intense and sometimes intimidating and and i don't see and i and i come off as arrogant but i don't know if i'm annoying arrogant yes i don't think you certainly didn't intimidate me of course not but i i was more like what's wrong with this guy yeah sort of like what why is he he almost got away from the conversation without insulting me yeah i get it and i mean let's be honest 20 years ago this meeting would not have happened today but i would i why would i know it wouldn't there was no podcast so no podcast. So we've matured.

We've matured. I don't know that it would have gone any differently 20 years ago. And I do think that there is something to competitiveness that is probably part of it. I think that there was probably my own insecurity and the jealousy of the type of attention you were getting at a different time because we're close enough to being contemporaries that I don't look at you as like the next generation or anything. But, you know, there was certainly a period there where, you know, you would seem to be getting a tremendous amount of attention. And and then it just you just self-emulated somehow. It all blew up. Is that what happened?

I don't know. What happened? Well, as an outsider, I'd love to hear what you think. Well, I'll be honest with you. Like, I don't know that I saw the movie until later. Like, I didn't see it when it came out. But I do remember reading that piece in harper's uh the six minutes of fun that's interesting you read that i've read it many times

why is that i i haven't maybe i should discuss this on my podcast i've given it to people yeah have you really why because it was such an amazing sort of odd insight into what you were going through. More so to me than the movie. There's a line, and I think it sort of honors something about comics, but also it's sort of about kind of the momentum you were in. That you're sort of like you were being fueled by this confidence because you were being indulged by the business. And by powerful people had sort of gotten behind you. being fueled by this confidence because you were being indulged by the business and by you know powerful people right had had had sort of like gotten behind you and you know why wouldn't your ego be you know huge and and and ready to go but that line where where you where you don't do well

on stage and then you get off stage and and the i think the final line of the the article is is by the time he had gotten to the bottom of the stairs, he had convinced himself that he killed. I don't think I did. I knew I didn't do well. You love it. You love it. Listen, that guy that wrote that. Wasn't it a woman?

It was a guy. All right. That guy followed me around and was my best friend. Yeah, you can't trust him. He was irresponsible. followed me around and was my best friend yeah you can't trust him you can't he was irresponsible and to the point where he called me the first call in montreal your name is everywhere in the in the papers everyone's talking about you yeah your ego must be huge yeah i said to be funny uh yeah i'm gonna need a bigger hotel room for it that's line one of the article that's funny

it's but he said orny's ego is so big, he said he's going to need a big. That's not what happened. I didn't volunteer this information. I was reacting to it. But it was a joke. It doesn't come across as a joke. It comes across as fodder for pricks like you that are looking to take me down to the fact. You're like, everybody I'm possibly having a deal with, you send them the Harper's article.

No, no, no. And my first demo reel from Atlanta. Oh, no, no, no. It was i just i just thought it was a an odd it was a well-written thing about comedy i was way way out of my league in that thing i i i didn't know what i was in for i didn't know you know well let's talk about the how where it unfolded where'd you start doing comedy in college atlanta georgia uh funny Really? Buckhead was the first time I was on stage. In Buckhead? Yes. I just did a show in Buckhead.

I was. At the Buckhead Theater. I was. It was fine. So why there? You were going to school there? Yeah, I was going to school there. Oh, Emory.

Yeah, yeah. How was that? What did you do that first time? I did, I'd have to look at my set list. I still have it. Yeah, I do. Wow. I do.

I was doing jokes about studying abroad in Italy. I wasn't 21 yet. How'd it go, the set? I felt very comfortable up there, but I'm sure, who knows? In fact, this weekend, for July 4th, one of the parties was my college friends, and one of them was there that night. Wow. The first time I did comedy.

Yeah. Yeah. Did you do it for them in the dorm room before? I was always sort of funny and when I studied abroad in Italy, in fact, that might be the first time I did stand-up,

they, I did it for all the American kids like in the, in the general assembly room. Yeah. And then I would go to Boston over the summer

and do stand-up and it was. Where at? Knicks. Yeah. Stitches. Catcher Eyes and Star. This is like

while you were in college? Yes. Oh, so Catch was still open. Knicks, Stitches, Catcher Eyes and Star. This is like while you were in college. Yes. Oh, so Catch was still open. Knicks. What else was it? Giggles and Saugus. Giggles and Saugus, yeah, the Leaning Tower of Pizza. Yeah, I would do all that.

Knicks at the Kowloon. You know, I never had to do an open mic or a bringer show. Dick Doherty's. Dick Doherty's, because there was just so many rooms. Right, but you had enough chops that, well, back then it was sort of before bringer shows. It was still sort of an open mic guest spot situation. So you were, what, doing opening slots and stuff?

No, it would be like, you know, it's Don Gavin's show Wednesday night at Nick's. Right. So you were getting booked. I was getting booked on those shows. Because you had the bits. Well, I think in those days you would come up and say, hey, I'm a stand-up comedian from Atlanta. They'd try you. You'd embellish, right?

Okay. Yeah, you're doing stand-up down there. You come up here. Oh, so you didn't present yourself as a local. Well, no, I was a Boston boy and always will be, but they would, right. But Mike Clark would give you a shot. Yes. Yeah.

And if you deliver. You get the gig. You get the gig. And then they'd start folding you into those one-nighters and going to Saugus. For 75 bucks to go to New Hampshire. That's 75 bucks. That's right. Loved it.

That's how you cut your teeth, right? That's how I did it. I mean, it's not how everybody does it, but that's, yeah, I cut my teeth in New England doing one-nighters. But don't you think that's what makes you better? Absolutely. Like when anybody says, what advice would you give a young comic? Get on stage every single night.

Well, that's one thing, but I mean, you you know but doing it that way where you go up cold opening for another guy in the middle of nowhere i mean that's different i mean that that really is hard but don't you remember the days when like you got booked as a feature and now you have to do 30 minutes but you don't have 30 minutes so you sit there you write out a list everything yeah yeah for 30 minutes you're on stage going now go to this bit now, now go to this bit. Oh, yeah, sure. Yeah, but when I started, it was mostly two-man shows, so it wasn't a feature spot. The opener had to do a half hour, and then the headliner would do 45 minutes. Huh.

That was the one-nighter thing. Right. And the good places had an opener. Like if you did Giggles or you did the Taunton Regency, a three-man show, but most of them, in my recollection, a three-man show. But most of them, in my recollection, were two-man shows. Well, I remember in Boston, the emcee on the weekday shows was the headliner.

So it'd be like Sweeney. That's right. And so those guys would get up there. They'd do 45 minutes that they wanted to. Then they'd bring me up or they'd bring somebody else up. And it was all really strong comics. So you were around strong comedy every night. What years were that? What years were that?

91 to, you know, up to the 2000s. You know, I moved to New York for about four or five years. So you started really doing the work at the clubs in Boston, so you didn't have to do bringer shows, but it's still a little before bringer shows, I think. Yeah, I didn't do bringer or no open mics either. I never like waited in a line. I never saw it. I did some of that.

I got lucky. I definitely did open mics at Catch a Rising Star. And yeah, and played against Sam's. Yeah, definitely. There was definitely open mics. But well, so yeah, so that was your entrance. So when did you move to New York? Well, what happened was Disney came in and they were scouting to give development deals.

And they saw me and they flew me to LA for a meeting with the head of development for Disney. Yeah. And I remember that meeting. It was so weird. There's me and one other kid who's probably no longer in the business. They put us up at a really nice hotel, and we had our meetings. And they said, you're going to meet with her, and you're going to talk for like 20 minutes. And we had our meetings.

And they said, you're going to meet with her. You're going to talk for like 20 minutes. And then you'd sit outside of the office. And they'd say, we're going to let you know if you're going to stay in LA or you're going to go home on a plane. Yeah. And I got sent home on a plane that night. I got like eliminated from the deal. And it was the longest, saddest flight.

This is before cell phones. You couldn't even call your parents and go, no, I got sent home. Yeah. Like, it happened so fast. They got me the hell out of that hotel room. Wow. And, yeah, but after- Welcome to show business. Yeah, I should have known then to get out.

And then after that, they all, people wanted to see me do stand-up. So, I'd go to New York to audition. And so, I'd do a set at the Cellar so they could see me, stand-up New York, blah, blah. Right. And that's how I got in at the Strip at those clubs okay was because of that okay so that showcases yes yeah so that was fortunate and then you moved down there loved it i would say as a stand-up comedian the most pure point in my career was doing 15 minute sets all over town yeah with the best yeah with the best sure and just you know, nobody was thinking, am I talking about something that could become

a TV show? Nobody was thinking, am I wearing something that says something? Yeah. We were just getting up there to be funny. Yeah. Boston, too, was like that. So, you do in New York. How many Lettermans did you do?

I did one Letterman. Mm. I did a few Tonight Shows. Okay. So, what happens now? Let's just track what I'm trying to track and what I was going to say to you before about people I resent and what I've realized

you know and I always kind of knew is that no matter how much you know I may be annoyed with you for my own dumb reasons you know you're a good comic and you're solid and you always do the job so like no matter what I think that stands out to me and you know and i have to honor that you know it's not like you're

not like a hack and you're not like you do you're the aggravated guy i get it you've been that way since you were young i don't know why you acted like you were 70 when you were 30 but why does it matter why it doesn't just like do it yeah and and it's mutual i've always respected your work and i've always thought you were funny, and that never, like, which kind of sucks, because you just want to go, this guy's a dick, and he's a hack. But I could never, you know. You could just say I'm a dick.

No, no, because I like you, and I want to like you, and I just, it's just, it's strange when someone you admire is attacking you. Yeah, I know, I know. Well, you know, I'm sorry about that. And I'm sorry that I annoyed you with my annoyingness. Yeah, I know, I know. Well, you know, I'm sorry about that. And I'm sorry that I annoyed you with my annoyingness. No, it's not your fault. You're who you are. You know, believe me, no one was inviting me to parties. Yeah.

You know, I definitely annoy some people. But yeah, so when does this, the momentum start? You know, that was, how do you frame that whole experience with Comedian, with the movie and what happened after that? I can tell you the way I remember it in my brain is I was doing a lot of shows in the city. I was, every night I'd go Cellar, Gotham, Stand Upup, strip, back down to the cellar. This is like 99. Yeah. 1990.

Okay. Yeah. And I felt like they were making accommodations. Like if I called Essendon, can I go one set later so I can do stand-up New York? She would do it. And I felt very good about myself. And they would put me on stand-up New York to close the show, Gotham to close the show. And all of a sudden.

That's why that's probably the beginning of why you were annoying me. Is that because I was there, wasn't I? Yeah, I was in New York. Right. And OK. So what annoys you about that? Well, it was just sort of like, you know, I. You know, you represented something that annoyed me.

You were just a guy that was, you know, going out to kill at all the clubs. And, you know, you didn't, the ambition of it. I'm just weird about it. It's a problem I have. I probably have to explore more. But, you know, people who are focused and specifically ambitious and aware of it annoy me. Like, I know I'm ambitious, but I don't pay attention to it. It's just a persistence that I have.

So let me ask you a question. Do you like athletes like Muhammad Ali that, you know, I'm a bad man or whatever he says, I sting like the cocky. Sure, sure. Do you like the guy in baseball that points the right field and then knocks it out of the park? Kind of. Yeah.

I mean, I'm not a sports guy. I love those guys. I know. Okay. I get it. Do you see where I'm getting at? No, I get it. Yeah.

And maybe it's because I don't really watch sports that I just misunderstood you for so many years. Right. That's what it is? Yeah. That's what it is? He's just a guy that wanted to hit it out of the park. Yeah.

He wants to float like a butterfly and sting like a bee. Yeah. I mean, I think it's interesting that you can get away with these i don't it's just i can't even manufacture the confidence that you were manufacturing either for real or out of insecurity at the time you were doing it and i found it contemptible huh and i respect i respect that and i and i and i agree in looking back yeah there are many things things that I look and I'm embarrassed. It makes me cringe. Like what?

Mark, there's a million. The movie? Yeah, there are parts of the movie. I understand. Okay, so let's go back to the beginning of the movie. So you're doing all these sets. Yes. And what happens?

Every time I saw that stupid camera crew in the lobby of any of those clubs i knew seinfeld was going to come in okay and now bump me and i'm using this as a launching pad for my social life so new york's a wonderful place you can do your shows till one in the morning and then you can stay out till four you don't have to worry about drinking and driving you're gonna take the subway or cab home and i would have women show up or friends and we'd go well you're not quite the hero that night when seinfeld shows up yeah so he kept bumping me yeah from shows yeah understandably so that one day the film crew saw that i was frustrated if you can believe it yeah and they, can we ask you a few questions?

And I said, sure. Yeah. They said, what do you think of Seinfeld's act, the new act? I said, I don't think it's that good. I said, it sort of seems dated. Like his style seems dated. The topics. He doesn't talk fast enough.

You're saying this on camera? On camera. They show Seinfeld. Seinfeld says, quote, follow this this guy he's the only one that has the balls to criticize me and i was then followed and enamored again these guys these producers if you know anything about what's going on in reality shows now they know how to make you feel good and get you to say shit that you shouldn't say and i was too young and naive and i was also doing a character in some sense so when i go to a car service and i go to open the door and i look

at the camera i have to open my own door that's a character that makes sense but that isn't when people see it they go who does this guy think that he doesn't have to open his own doors yeah yeah so so you're kind of playing the part they put you in yes right and you know what there were two versions there was a version of that film that we took out or seinfeld took out but he graciously took me along for seinfeld was very kind to me yeah flew me to new york one time and he said i want to take you out and show you how to be famous and sign autographs it was very anytime i did a like when i did a special he would call and come like he privately was very, anytime I did a, like when I did a special, he would call and come. Like he privately was very supportive of me. And so then it got sold to Merrimack.

I remember meeting with Harvey Weinstein. Oh, really? Yes. How was that? Everything you would expect it to be. Okay. And so once that version, the word came back, take out this guy doing stand-up and take out these moments that make him look human and sort of vilify him. And so that's what they did. The second cut was a lot different than the first one.

So they set you up. I wouldn't say it was a setup. I would say they're smart. They've got to have a bad person in there so what it's easier to dislike me if you don't see stand-up that substantiates my why jerry let him do that why do you think because it's payback payback for what for having the balls to criticize him maybe i don't know i don't know so who what was the relationship with george shapiro who just passed because i mean that was you know that was he's my manager right but so seinfeld turned him on to you uh i have a i have some thoughts on that that i

won't share today but i think when are you going to share them this is it this is it is this my uh i have some thoughts on that and i i guess dead he's dead but still i i'm gonna wait until everybody's dead and then yeah yeah okay i'm gonna wait until the day before we leave for mars okay and uh as a species uh yeah okay so who how'd you get involved with george through jerry yes okay yeah and the producers were sending him my tapes so producers of the documentary yes where were they from england well one was one was british but they were both guys that worked at an ad agency and had worked with seinfeld and pitched this documentary and i had listen i was so excited to get 700 a day whatever the sag after.

Dude, you know, nothing about you wanting to be involved in that was peculiar. Why wouldn't you? What I think is fascinating is it's on Netflix now. Is it? It is. I shouldn't have said that, but it is. And I'll still get, I'll get like, why are you laughing? I'll get, people will like on social media, they'll like attack me.

They'll be like, just saw the new Seinfeld thing. I'm like, it's not new. It's not even HD. What a fucking nightmare. It's a square image. Thank you. What a fucking nightmare. But people attack me. I'm the villain of this.

Do you understand Bill Cosby is in this documentary and i'm still the asshole yeah i'm sorry buddy you love it no i don't i i mean i i'm laughing because it's hilarious but it's horrible it's like it's just like it's it's just this you had no control over it and you know you've obviously framed it in retrospect as you can understand why they made the choices you made but it you know it fucking it hobbled you and it's not going to go away no even when i met brooke shield she said it's your blue lagoon that's what she said it's going to come up in every interview well no I mean of course it's going to come up today but I'm sure it's not coming up that much anymore no I think like I got a Michael Moore said to me I went into that documentary and I came out loving you and and hating you know the people that were involved with that without naming the name

they set you up so then do you okay thank you what is that i'm just saying that like you know you've had to frame it in retrospect they're like they needed a villain they did this but but they they it's not unlike that article that I enjoyed only because of the last line, you know, because the thing is, like, you know, it hurts me to, you know, to to feel like that I was meaning you or felt any satisfaction. But, you know, I'm you know, I'm just an insecure, angry guy. So what what I saw happen at that time was some sort of schadenfreude that, you know, you will be humbled because of you flew too close to the sun i think i have been humbled by that i definitely think you've been humbled yeah but but but i i think that that line by the time you walked to the got to the bottom of the stairs i thought it was a funny line and it's it always stuck

with me but i knew i i knew i did not do well i really and and i said something from the stage that still today this day just makes me shrivel up. Montreal was given every opportunity, and I blew it. I blew it. Well, look, man, it's a tough gig sometimes. There's a lot of pressure. It's not a real audience.

You got half the audience is in industry. Half of them are local. Some of them are drunk in the new the new face is a fucking nightmare. You know, for anybody to really succeed at that, there has to be so much expectation. And back then, people were unknown. But I do think that a guy in your position, who worked hard, who got really liked,

you know, really believed in comedy and wanted to do it more than anything, how were you not gonna behave the way you behave when you got all that that that sort of juice from those people right you know i i don't think you could have known that at that at you know at the beginning of that that you know it would hang around your neck like a fucking albatross yeah do you think that your opinion of this is the majority in the stand-up community like i feel like i feel like in a sense that i alienated myself from some people in the stand-up community like i feel like i feel like in a sense that i alienated myself from some people in the stand-up community well i think what you're saying that you know as

you say to me to my face that you know differentiating between sort of playing into their expectations and actually being who you are uh you know probably is misunderstood so like i don't know what the general opinion is but you know you know how you came off and half of that is because they cut you to to to uh to use you as this foil but also part of it was that you know you were playing it up i agree so like for and people would sort of take that like black guys well, that guy's like that, you know. But, you know, when you say to me that you were sort of like, it was a gag, it didn't make sense to me. Yeah. Yeah.

You know, this is the position they're going to put me in. Why not just fucking like that? I felt like, you know, stand-up comedians, we look for a reason to hate other comics. Do you know what I mean? Like, you're watching somebody kill on stage and go, oh, now he's talking about, you know, that, that hack topic. You know, it's like, it's so I felt like- It's just insecure competitiveness.

Yeah, I felt like this- I don't know if it's hate. I guess, yeah. I mean, I feel like I gave everybody the opportunity. You didn't, you didn't give it to them. So then why- They did it to you. So, okay, thank, so have you ever said that

publicly like why is it now okay thank you now that my career's over yeah now thank you appreciate it thanks thanks for the boost now great why why you do that you do that radio thing where you don't laugh into the mic like i don't want to blow the the i don't want to blow the levels up. You can hear me laughing. No, because it's a hard thing to come back from because I think, I don't know. You're no angel in the sense that you're not. I think you do expect a certain amount of respect. And I think you work hard and your ethic is good. And you're a guy that a guy that kills so you know you want to be treated like the guy who kills like i'm the guy who kills every night where's my fucking prize what do i got to be out there you're doing the

second show on friday for half a house yeah i mean i thought i thought in this business and and really screw me for even ever having this crazy thought, but I thought if you were funny, it led to things. But it isn't that. Sometimes. It isn't. Sometimes it just leads to being funny. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah. Like you're so zen about that, you know? No, but I mean, I'm only zen about it in the sense that I know that there is no fairness to it. And a lot of times there's plenty of people that can kill, dude. I mean, it's just the reality of it. Especially now there's thousands of comics. And how anybody builds an audience or why people are appealing either on this mic or on the stand-up mic or on a TV show. Who the fuck knows?

I mean, you can be so proficient and so perfect and do everything right and get exactly the response you want, but still not garner the big following. I don't know why. I don't know what the fuck that is. Do you know what I mean? And there are comics that sell millions of tickets that some people don't even know. It's a weird thing. That is weird. There's no, it's not a meritocracy.

Are you happy with where your stand-up career- I've had to make certain acceptance about it. I'm happy with my stand-up career because by by some fucking virtue of i don't know what you know when i started this podcast i couldn't sell fucking tickets and and then like with the podcast audience developing they didn't know that i was a comic huh really they knew i talked about it but they would come out like we should go support mark i'm like this is actually the thing i know how to do exactly you know So over time, through one way or another, just by, and all because of this, the podcast and the timing of

the thing, which was the first time in my life I had good cosmic timing, and it all happened on my terms, but I got opportunities and I was ready for them. So between the acting and the podcast and the standup and this and that, I have an audience, but I'm not filling arenas, but I can make a living. That's great. Yeah. So I've had to accept that. Because there's always some part of you, man, like as a comic and as somebody like us who are sort of fundamentally a little insecure and think that we're entitled to more attention than we are. Who isn't insecure?

There are people that are insecure. There are. Okay. But why do we always have to label comics insecure? Because a lot of us are. But I think in the world we're insecure. No, I get, well, no, I get it. Sure, there's insecure plumbers and there's insecure... Oh, God.

The way I snake that toilet. Oh, God, I could have snaked the drain better. I don't think that... Damn it. Did you see the way Mark the drain better. I don't think that's true. Damn it. Did you see the way Mark snakes the drain? I don't think that's true. I think they probably compete. He's in and out of the house in 30 minutes. I don't think it's task specific.

I think they're more insecure about like, why am I not? I'm a stupid plumber. Damn it. God, I suck at plumbing. Why did I commit my life to this? I work so hard. I have a boss? I work for a plumbing company.

A lot of them are their own guys, but I think they're more. Stupid, insecure. Yeah, exactly. But I don't think that's true. I think that, you know, unlike, you know, alcoholism or drug addiction, I think that's pervasive with every type of person. But I think insecurity is a fairly common component in what fuels us to do what we do. So how you manage that and how bad it fucks you, that's half of your job, right?

I agree. I'm not denying I'm insecure. No, I know. But I think it's more out there. I think everybody's insecure. Okay. I used to think that about bitterness, but I was wrong. And I spent a lot of my life thinking that people were as aggravated about the things I was aggravated about on an existential level that they just don't know it.

And I'm here to introduce them to that. But a lot of times people are just looking at you going like, why is this guy so worked up about this? You ever meet people and they're like seemingly happy in life and they have nothing. You're like, they have nothing. They have so much more than them, but they're happy. How do you have nothing you're like they have nothing yeah but they have so much more than them but they're how do you know what you have what do you have that you they might have something you don't have no i've done a full audit no but this is the issue yeah is this assumption and i and i think i've done it and i may have more progress with it than you do that we understand

or know you know what other people are thinking or that's for some reason our lives our stupid fucking lives where we can't manage a relationship we don't really have many friends we're insulated we've never had a fucking job we sit here around it look at the fucking world to write our stupid little jokes assuming that we understand people it's a fallacy there's a lot of people that have different priorities in their life of what you know determines whether or not their life is fulfilling. And we're in our selfish, dumb worlds where we're sitting around by ourselves trying to make things work out. We think we understand that.

So was it unhealthy for Marc Maron to go into this business? No. Would you mentally have been better served doing something else well you know orny that you know once if you've got this thing for real this bug that you know there you don't have other options right and you can't do no matter even if you have these fantasies about like oh maybe i could do this very good. There's just no way it's going to happen. So by the time I started this fucking podcast, I was like, you know, I'm looking at a life of, you know,

if this, you know, right now when I got on that mic, you know, after that second divorce, you know, from Mishnah and, you know, going broke and everything else that like I knew that was a moment where I knew exactly who I was is that at best, like, I knew, that was a moment where I knew exactly who I was, is that, at best, like, I can't sell tickets, so I'm looking at a life of plowing it out, you know, in B comedy rooms as an unknown headliner for life.

That, or I'm going to put a fucking gun in my mouth. I don't have the courage for that. So, like, so I had to accept, at some level, the limitations and the reality of what my life was. And then I got on these mics and something clicked. Who the fuck knows? Cosmic, I don't know. I was lucky, but I have to assume it had something to do with talent.

But I definitely knew at that moment, and I used to do a joke about it, that at some point you get so far along where you're like, there's no plan B. There might not have ever been. But there's that moment where you're sort of like, hey, if this doesn't work, I could always. Holy fuck. Yeah. Yeah. There is nothing.

Right. There is nothing. But also don't undermine that you had the guts and the courage early on to expose yourself at that level, which I don't. yourself at that level which i i don't i'm still the guy who and i i wish i wasn't has to suck my stomach in for every picture that has that concern and i wish i could just get out there and just not care and for you to have that courage when you turn the mic on i think that's you know i think that's really cool yeah i i I still, like, I care. But, like, the thing is, is that eventually it's going to catch up with you. And no matter how much you care, you know, time will make a fool out of you. Right.

That's a good quote. Yeah. Time is the great equalizer. Sure. Yeah. You know, I mean, I'm still uncomfortable with, you know, how I look. I just, you know, I was walking around, you know, I'm nuts, you know, around all that stiff still. But, like, some part of me realizes, like, I'm just not going to get these pictures right.

I'm never going to be happy with it. Right. But then there are some people like Philip Seymour Hoffman who like, it's just so attractive how at home or at easy was with his appearance and his look. And that to me is kind of cool too oh yeah i envy you know people who are comfortably fat yeah do you ever think like if you and i had any charisma how far we would have gone i like i i think we both have charisma but i think we're a a little i think our problem is is a self-centeredness more than anything else i don't think we're any more self-centered than anybody else in this business. Well, this is your particular problem. You've decided that everyone must be insecure and that now we're just as self-centered

as everybody else. Well, don't you think in these times, do you go on social media? It's all about me, me, me, me, me. I get it. Everybody's posting pictures. It's all self-centered. The whole world has become self-centered.

Maybe it's a wrong... We're just pioneers. Okay. Look where it's a wrong. We're just pioneers. Okay. Look where it's gotten us. You're in a trailer talking to nobody. Literally. I go, this is on the verge. I go, this is what crazy people do.

They talk about news articles and all that sort of stuff. But here's the other thing. Maybe it's not self-centeredness. It's just this weird assumption. I don't know know what it is but i understand what you're saying because like i used to do that a lot like i really believed when i was you know less uh funny and more angry and on stage like at luna and stuff that that i was speaking to something that everyone must experience but you know what band there are people that are well adjusted there are people that don't prioritize the things that we prioritize there are people that don't prioritize the things that we prioritize.

There are people that don't get annoyed in the same way that we do. But even if you're talking about what? Here's a ruler in front of me. And you're at Luna and you're so upset about the... Why is it only 12 inches? Why isn't it 24? Right? They're going to go, this guy's crazy.

But that's the way I feel about X, Y, Z. Maybe. Maybe they stop at this guy's crazy and I'll just laugh at him no yes yes I don't think so that that's the realization I had at some point I realized that they might not be laughing with me but if they're gonna laugh at me I'll take either one I would have told you if that was going on when you go who are you today Bob Dylan I would screw you they're laughing at you Marin uh- marin they're not laughing with you i was laughing at you with your fucking hat marin you're you're you're a hacky ruler bit whatever happened to marin with his ruler bit oh yeah he really worked that thing to the bone couldn't get over couldn't get over with it god can anybody find the quarter inch mark exactly so what so how do you find

you recovered from all that shit i mean like you know the the letdown or or what how did you know that things didn't pan out after the movie you know pretty fast mark i was playing uh a theater in baltimore opening for seinfeld so he took you on the road after Comedian. Yes, for a couple of gigs and then he said that we were too similar our comedy. Yeah.

So, but, you know, it couldn't have gone better. I did the show in Baltimore and this is how long ago. By the way, for anybody who's wondering, this thing was shot in 1999 and came out in 2001.

So this is a long time. 20 years ago. Yeah. 21 years. Hold on. Let me do the math on the ruler here. Okay. So this is a long time. 20 years ago. 21 years. Yeah, hold on. Let me do the math on the ruler here. Okay. So, do you hate the ruler? No, no, you're good.

So I get, I finish the show. Yeah. And the next day, my parents came from Boston to see the show. And I go to the train station the next day, take the train back to New York. And I go to the newsstand and I grab a newspaper from every major city, San Francisco, New York, Boston, blah, blah, Atlanta, right?

And I'm panned in every single one of those reviews. In fact- For the movie. For the movie. In fact, like in a cruel way, like the Hollywood reporter or Variety, the woman writing the review

said that I was bereft of humility and she was rooting for my failure and I thought that's kind of like on you know I'm an unknown you know guy who's just I understand that it was that was cruel but I for some reason that you know that I think that was a feeling yeah that people had about how you were represented in there and thank you for saying it that way how i was represented i i do appreciate what i mean you've told me that you know you were in some ways you know playing up to something so the bereft of humility i think that's a i think that that is that is an issue well you know also when you have cameras in your face,

it gives you a little confidence. Well, you've got humility now. I sure do. Yeah. Okay, so it happened quick. It happened very quick. And just sort of like the way the comp, like they did a screening in New York City.

And I remember when it got up, like none of the comics wanted to talk to me. And I go, oh, we might be in trouble here. But I'm sitting next to Seinfeld during the screening and he's like hitting me in the ribs going i'm just like that i'm just like that and yet when you're talking yeah like during the movie interesting interesting that he saw you as a kindred spirit younger version of him and call me the most the most honest person he's ever met huh okay so so none of the comics want to talk to you i felt that way and i could be again insecure and reading into it wrong but no i mean

but i also never felt like i fit in did you ever feel like i'm not the guy who's hanging out till three o'clock in the morning with the comics i was going home or going out with friends i hung out with people yeah i didn't i didn't So you're already a little isolated. Yeah. I went into comedy because I'm an outsider. Yeah. Well, I always like the crew of outsiders. I like to eat too and I can't sleep that well. Yeah.

Yeah. So I had to hang out. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, and how did your career go after that? It was bad.

Bad. Yeah. I couldn't, I couldn't't i couldn't get but i remember calling jerry going i'm i'm first of all i had a deal with cbs yeah they got my deal yeah they pulled out and pulled out after the movie yes after the montreal and the movie yeah maybe the movie. Yeah. Maybe the movie hadn't been out. They pulled out. A six-figure deal. And then Warner Brothers gave me a deal. Yeah. But I don't think they really wanted to give me a deal.

I think it was sort of like a favor deal. I don't know. Maybe they did want to give me a deal. Was that a six-figure one? Yeah. And it was late in the season. And I barely got a writer. Nothing ever happened.

I couldn't believe they made me. Well, I've had two of those. Yeah. Three of them. I had a a writer. Nothing ever happened. I couldn't believe they paid me. Well, I've had two of those. Yeah. Three of them. I had a lot of them. Yeah, and I couldn't get booked on the road. There are some clubs, I'm not kidding, and maybe my information is wrong, but there are some clubs in this country that still will not book me

because I'm difficult from comedian. Really? Yeah, and I'll tell you off the air one of them. But, I mean, you know, I've proven myself on the road. I'm not, you know, I wouldn't be working this long in this business if I was difficult. No, yeah. No, you just do the job. And you show up, you'll do the radio, you'll do everything.

Love it. Yeah. I mean, I'm not kidding. Like, radio and, again, not to bring the podcast up again, but I run a lot of bits through the podcast. Sure. And they end up on stage. Yeah, me too. That's right.

So, yeah, you'll be doing the ruler bit. Yeah. No, you can have it. Okay. Next time I'm in front of you, I'm closing with the ruler bit. You take the ruler bit. Yeah, yeah. I just got that fucking...

What happened? I used a lotion with some sunblock in it, and I got it in my eye. Oh, that's the worst. Why don't they fix that? I don't know. Maybe that's... Write that down. It's a good premise. I used to do with some sunblock in it, and I got it in my arm. Oh, that's the worst. Why don't they fix that? I don't know. Maybe that's, you know, write that down. It's a good premise. I used to do it.

I did. I did. I did. If he didn't shit on it, I was going to go full on into it. I was going to get up. I was going to start screaming and stomping around. Did you used to do it? Yeah.

Oh, wow. Yeah. You're really attentive to the minutia. Yeah. Yeah. So now you're all right money wise and not money wise but work wise yeah you do all right i do all right good yeah and do you talk to jerry no okay i don't i don't and to put it like a button on it uh-huh this will stay with me and this will always be a source of

pain in my life this documentary and it will be something that I feel like I've got to defend even when I don't have to defend it. I don't know. I've gone through this in my head several times. If at the end of the day I regret doing it because it is such a large part of my identity now as a comedian, I can't imagine not having it but if if at the end i can see the the tally sheet and the column in comedian sorry the column not in comedian i'd love to know where i would have ended up with him without it i mean we know with yeah yeah i i wonder if you were allowed to evolve naturally as opposed to be put in that position with that much attention and you know and and and have no

control over how you were sort of represented i wonder you know i i i guess it's not helpful in any way to speculate i mean a large part of me feels like it's a gift that I was given this opportunity to be self-reflective and understand well that's I well that's uh that's good that's a good good way to to to handle it yeah I just don't want to be one of those people that says oh I'm over it it's 20 years ago but it will be with me yeah you know yeah it's like these people that lose a limb early on in life it's much similar you lost your career's leg my leg i've been on one leg in comedy for now for 20 years yeah what what's been the sustaining thing?

Well, it comes back to that spreadsheet I was talking about with did it help or didn't it help, the documentary. And there's an executive producer, the guy who created Criminal Minds on CBS, Jeff Davis, was creating a new show called Teen Wolf. He saw the documentary, and one day he's driving down Melrose, and he sees my name on the marquee, and he said, I want to go see if that guy's even funny. Oh, really? Okay, yeah, yeah. So he goes in, and he says... He knew you from the documentary?

Yeah, yeah. So he goes in, and he goes, I was blown away. He goes, I loved you. Yeah, yeah. You were really funny. And he kept coming back over and over again to see my show.

And then when he wrote this new show, Teen Wolf, which was on MTV, he wrote the part of Coach for me. I never auditioned. I'm the only one that my agents, here's a good lesson for people. My agents sent me a script and they said, this starts shooting next week in Atlanta. This guy saw you on stage. He's a fan of yours. He thinks you'd be great for the coach. I went down the street to the coffee shop. I read it and I said, but so often I read

scripts, they don't make sense. This one made perfect. I go, I get it. It's a well-written, this guy. And he wrote it for you. Well, he wrote that part for me, but I understood the whole show. It was like a nice love story of high school kids that turn into werewolves and kill each other. So I said, I love it. I'll accept the part. And my agent said, no, no, you don't. He's not going to just give you the part. You have to audition. So let me call the casting person,

and I'll tell them that you're free to audition. I said, hold on. This is true. I said, you call Jeff Davis back, because he called my agent, and you say, Orny Adams will be in Atlanta next week to shoot the pilot you don't offer me to audit the minute i audition i'm not getting the part yeah the casting person is going

to give it to one of their friends whatever so that's how i got on this show teen wolf and what i loved about it was for the first time i wasn't doing my lines. Yeah. I had no responsibility. Yeah. I just show up. Yeah. And then the fans, unlike stand-up, which our fans can be very critical. Sure. They don't even know you're stand-up, the fans from Teen Wolf. It's like you were saying with your podcast early on. People didn't know you were stand-up.

They still don't know I'm a stand-up. Yeah. They still don't. But do they come to the shows? No. Not enough of them. I mean, they'll follow stand-up. Yeah. They still don't. But do they come to the shows? No! Not enough of them. I mean, they'll follow me. They're confused.

Like, if they follow me on TikTok or Instagram, they're like, what's... Oh, I didn't know you did stand-up. But how many episodes of the show has there been? We did 100. Oh, my God. Six seasons. What's it on? Now it's on Paramount+.

It's been on Hulu. It's been on... I think Hulu. It's definitely been on Netflix. So you make money in your sweep for this thing. It has nothing to do with me. It's a massive Hulu. It's been on, I think, Hulu. It's definitely been on Netflix. So you make money in your sweep for this thing. It has nothing to do with me. It's a massive hit. Sure.

I'm a side character. And really, the success of my character is because of the writing. It really, they wrote me. But you're in every episode. No. That's why I'm a success. Because they knew to put me in just enough. I mean, I wish I was in more.

So this has been going on for what? Five, eight years? Yeah, and then we just shot a movie. Really? There's a trilogy that they're putting out. How big's the part? Good part? No, it's never good enough for me.

No, it's great. It's great. You know, honestly, they brought back so many characters. Over six seasons, there were so many characters. Oh, so this is great. This is like a happy ending to everything.'s cool what are you making a living of course i am i told you when the mics were off before we started this i said mark come on we we know i know but like you know but like i'm i'm just thinking of the stand-up and i like i i knew you did this

team wolf but it's like it's a that's big, that's a living and show business. Yeah. I'm on a show that went six seasons. Yeah. That's rare. Yeah. Oh, I feel better. I'm still going to bust your balls. You can bust my balls.

The fans are nothing but loving. These fans are the nicest. Well, that's great. It's cool. I'm glad you landed on your feet. So what about this special? So I've had three but i just put my latest yeah on uh youtube is that that's all that you you self-produced it and you

put it up there no i didn't it was on showtime it's called more than loud and you got it back yeah i bought it back oh good that's what i recommend to everybody own the tapes remember you you like when you study musicians yeah own the masters. Sure. I mean, I get mine back. I've got a couple back. But I don't know. Is the material still? You don't do anything timely. Well, no.

But I mean, this is only a few years ago. Okay, all right. And, you know, really, does a guy going crazy over little things ever get a hold? I don't know. No, that's true. Yeah, I mean mean i bet you my special that i did i did one for more later i did for epics and i got it back uh so i think i have that one i'm very i'm very weird like i was telling you i don't do many podcasts yeah i just

don't i i'm of the camp where you don't overshare yeah and i own this special i own three of my specials and i've never put them out because i always i always think well i'll get a deal with a streamer and i'll sell them these other specials my agent's like just put it up on youtube yeah it's just over yeah the the old style just get you know why not get it out there see what happens right but you're there you're doing it still and you're always funny man and i'm glad we did this thanks for talking i i agree i mean i feel like this was this was fun good and i'm glad i wasn't set up oh i'm not gonna set you up are we gonna be cool now are we yeah okay

all right that was orny adams wow shit I feel bad, but I feel good we talked. He's at the Hollywood Improv this weekend, July 15th and 16th. His podcast is called What's Wrong with Orny Adams. Get that wherever you get podcasts. And look, can we hang out for a second? There's more stuff. Just hang out.

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And it was really touching. But it's only available to you, full Marin subscriber people. But like here, I'll play a little bit for you. This is my dad recognizing the dogs from his childhood. Do you remember this dog? Yep. You do?

Penny. Penny. When'd you have that dog? Oh, I don't know. But I remember him. Penny, Penny, Penny. Look at this.

Eleanor. That's your mom, right? Yep. How about this one? That's Grandma mom, right? Yep. How about this one? That's grandma. Do you remember her? Yeah. Was she a nice lady? Yeah.

Did she talk much? I don't remember her talking. Was Barney her husband? Yeah. Was he a character? I didn't know him. You didn't? He was dead already? I he a character? I didn't know him. You didn't? He was dead already?

I don't know. I don't remember him. I love this picture. It's Ben. Your dad? My dad. Looks good in that pic, huh? Yeah.

You remember him talking much? Yeah, more or less. Look at this picture. That was when you were a lifeguard capitol park probably you're doing pretty good with this quiz of your life this is a dementia test that's the little dog penny no another one inky inky crazy he's got mild dementia but like you know the love of an animal transcendent forever eternal so look you can listen to that whole thing right now if you're subscribed if you're not

go to the link in the episode description or click on wtf plus at wtTF pod dot com. OK, tomorrow and Saturday, I will be at Wise Guys in Las Vegas. That's July 15th and 16th. I'm bringing Esther Povitsky with me. We're going to have fun. My dad's actually driving out from New Mexico with his wife to see some of those. Then I'm back at Dynasty Typewriter in L.A. for two shows, July 23rd and 24th. Saturday is sold out, but there are still some tickets for Sunday. I'll be at Just for Laughs in Montreal for my gala on Saturday, July 30th,

or my gala. I'll also be doing solo shows up there on July 28th and 29th. Then in August, folks, August and September, I'll be in Columbus, Ohio, Indianapolis, Indiana, Louisville, Kentucky,

Lincoln, Nebraska, Des Moines, Iowa, Iowa City, Iowa, Tucson, Arizona, Phoenix, Arizona, Boulder, Indiana, Louisville, Kentucky, Lincoln, Nebraska, Des Moines, Iowa, Iowa City, Iowa, Tucson, Arizona, Phoenix, Arizona, Boulder, Colorado, and Toronto, Ontario, Canada. Then in October, I'm in London, England, and Dublin, Ireland. Go to wtfpod.com slash tour for all dates and ticket info. Okay? Okay. So, all right, look, I got to go take some vitamins and I'm having an okay day. And I just got to say, if you can get an okay day in, if your balance between the micro and the macro is tolerable and one isn't macro is tolerable and one isn't fueling denial and the other one isn't fueling sort of self annihilating depression if you can just ride that line you're doing all right okay you're doing all

right i don't know what to do but i know that you're doing all right. I'm going to play some guitar. Thank you. Thank you. Boomer lives. Monkey. Lafonda. Cat angels everywhere.