WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1356 - Patton Oswalt

Episode Date: August 11, 2022

Patton Oswalt returns to the garage more than a decade since his last appearance, but he and Marc have so much shared history that it’s always easy to pick up right where they left off. Patton and Marc talk about their memories of the San Francisco comedy scene, their encounters with Bill Hicks, their professional triumphs and their personal tragedies. They also discuss Patton’s latest projects including his comic book, Minor Threats, and his new film, I Love My Dad. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. Lock the gates! all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fuck nicks what's happening how is it how is it for you how's the heat huh how is the heat i'm just uh hanging out drinking liquid deaths not a sponsor right now

but i have a lot of them and uh spending some time on my 95 degree porch watching my yard die because i'm trying to conserve i'm trying to conserve water i guess if i was real righteous i would just dig the whole fucking thing up and stick a few cactuses in there but I'm just slowly watching it die as uh as I am watching the rest of California die I guess we'll know we're in real trouble when they can't grow fucking almonds anymore the day you hear like there's an almond shortage it's going to be the day it's too late to get out of California without being stuck in fucking Mad Max traffic. I had 23 years sober day before yesterday, August 9th, 23 years. It's not so much that they're flying by, but they become not even less significant, but less important. It's just my life. My life is sober. I mean,

recovered, yes. Do I get dry? Do I get cranky? Do I get irritable? Is it better, really, mentally than it was when I was drinking? Absolutely. Do I still find things to beat the shit out of myself about or feel ashamed of? And do I still make mistakes? Of course. But I know one of them is not waking up saying, what the fuck did I do last night? Why didn't I sleep at all? How come my sweat smells funny? Oh my God, when was the last time I ate? I'd like a little more of that actually. But quality of life, much better, much different. I can't even imagine it anymore. And that's the real gift of it. The obsession to drink or use drugs left me a long time ago. That's one of the promises of sobriety. If you do it in the way that it's done, where you get promises,

is that the obsession will be lifted. And that seems like a very tall order. Like, how the fuck am I? My entire brain is geared around thinking about drugs and alcohol. How am I not going to think about that anymore? And then somewhere around five years, it went away totally. And I work in bars all the time. I don't think about it. It's no longer a choice. I know in my mind that I can't do it safely, any of it. So you find other things, sure. I mean, I'll plow through some ice cream. I'll have a week of some maddening masturbatory practices. I'll get obsessed with other things.

But I'm not destroying my life and the life of others and exponentially increasing the odds of my safety becoming compromised by engaging in drinking or drugging. And I'm not righteous about it. I just know, I don't think I'd be alive if I didn't do it. I can't imagine what my life would have been like. And it took a while to get sober. I was in and out for a long time of trying to stay sober. And then it took, and I don't think about it anymore. And I know that people are like, you know, don't you want to just, I don't really need to. It's like, you know, once you get away from it and you truly realize in your heart and in your mind that you can't do it safely and that you're going to come around the same bend and end up in the same puddle of pee,

you know, how many times does that got to happen before you know, before you know in your heart, in your mind, look, man, I've got smaller rings of self-sabotaging behavior that I ended up in. It's not a puddle of pee, but shame nonetheless. But they don't make my life unmanageable. They don't cause a tremendous amount of chaos. I've been divorced twice in sobriety. I've had a lot of bad

relationships in sobriety. I've experienced sickness and death in sobriety. I've gone bankrupt in sobriety, but I didn't drink because there's no solution there for me. I don't know. I'm grateful to be sober. I'm grateful that if my sobriety helps anybody in any way, that's the best thing that I can do. I get tons of emails from people all the time. It is one of the few. I generally will respond to people who ask about sobriety. I don't as much as I used to, but there is always help and you can get through it. Look, if you don't want to stop drinking, don't. If you want to stop drinking but can't, get help. It is a better life.

It is a better life. Patton Oswalt's on the show today. Look, he's been on before a couple of times. But I'm the only one. I think there was a short one, maybe a live one. I don't know. It's been over a decade, though, since he's been on. If you have the subscription to WTF, to the archives or the full Marin on WTF Plus, you can go back and hear his episodes from the early years of the show. He was on episode three, episode 107, episode 144. Three, that must have

been a short one. A lot has happened in both of our lives since, obviously, and it's a good time to have him back on since he has a movie out, just came out. It's called I Love My Dad, and it's a little cringey, but it's cringey on purpose. It's a little bit, it's quite a movie, and he did a good job with it. So I first got sober in 1988, and I now have 23 years in a row sober. So what's that take me? 88, 98, 2008, 2018, 1920, 21, 22. So that took me 34 years to get 23.

Struggle, I guess. You know, I just was in and out. But again, it's possible to not give a shit about drugs or alcohol. It's possible to know that you can't do drugs or alcohol safely without fucking up your life or the life of others it's preferable if either of those are a concern for you whether or not it's possible to not give a shit about drugs and alcohol and whether or not it's possible to live a life without them uh it's you should know that uh it's preferable and it's possible to not have to do those things.

I'm just telling you that. Life turns out to be quite short. And the one thing about doing something you know you have no control over or you don't want to do anymore is that it occupies all of your brain and the cycles of abstinence followed by the cycles of re-engagement just keep happening. And they just circle around and it becomes this weird thing where you're like, I'm going to stop. Not right now. I like it again. Fuck. I'm in, I'm in P I'm going to stop. I like it again. I'm okay. I can handle it. Oh no. going to stop. I like it again. I'm okay. I can handle it. Oh no. I pooped in my pants. I'm going to stop. Oh no. I'm okay. I can just drink. Where are you going? Don't take the kids. I'm going to stop. It's just, and then all of a sudden it's like, I'm dying. I'm going to stop because I'm

dying. Where, where are my kids? I'm dying. Where, how come i don't have a house yeah i mean jails institutions are death that's what they say in the racket in the society but look i'm just telling you not being self-righteous it's possible and it's preferable and it's okay you know it's just fucking life but there's a lot more to it than fucking circling around that dumpster do you know what i'm saying jesus fuck i can't even imagine it yeah so i'm very happy to not be in the world where it's like you can't trust any powder or pill i I enjoyed powders and I kind of like, you know, I do get a little envious of the weed, but I even know, I just know that, you know,

it's just like when I smoke weed, you don't know when you're high or you're not high anymore. You get haunted, you get up in your head. I'm already up in my head enough. Just grateful to be sober and here to tell you that it's possible. That's all. You know. You know what I'm saying. Patton Oswalt has a new movie out. I love my dad. It is now playing in theaters. And you can watch it at home on demand starting tomorrow, August 12th. Patton and I go way back.

I think we've had our problems. But I'm finding that, you know, resentments fade. Things level off if you do okay. I think we've had our problems, but I'm finding that, you know, resentments fade. Things level off if you do okay. Most of them are still there, but they're sort of, they just had a low simmer. And some of them have just turned into a general sadness as I watch myself and my peers get older. But Patton and I moved to San Francisco at the same time within weeks of each other in the I guess it would be in the 90s, 92, 93, maybe. And him, me, Blaine Kapach were sort of this strange trio that kind of entered the San Francisco comedy scene when it was sort of beginning to wane.

So we go back. I mean, that's like, what is it, 93, 92? Wow. Really? 30 years. Wow. This is me talking to Patton Oswalt. Business insurance from Zensurance is a no-brainer for every business owner because it provides peace of mind. A lot can go wrong. A fire, cyber attack, stolen equipment, or an unhappy customer suing you. That's why you need insurance. Don't let the, I'm too small for this mindset, hold you back from protecting yourself. Zensurance provides customized business insurance policies starting at just $19 per month. Visit Zensurance today to get a free quote.

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To show your true heart is to risk your life. When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive. FX's Shogun. A new original series streaming February 27th exclusively on Disney+. 18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. I get the baffler for no reason, which is a heady stuff. Didn't you used to write for them?

No, I don't think so. Did I write one thing for them? I don't know. You know, Thomas Frank started it a million years ago. I thought they went full digital because I used to have it digitally on my iPad. No, you can get them. Okay. They send them to me and I try to read them. And they're dense. Dense.

It's like why I stopped my New Yorker book report. It's like a year of college in every issue. It is, yeah. I remember Julia Sweeney said, I love the New Yorker but it's like having a fucking book report every week. I know. You're right. It's exactly what it is. It's the pressure. And you feel like a shithead if you only read a couple articles and toss it. I know.

I can't do the New Yorker. I have it on my phone but i don't even do i don't even know why i do it on my phone yeah i don't even look at it i can look at the whole issue very small one page at a time with ads the one i can really read is the new york review of books because it's so bitchy and it's like this it's this like portrait of new york that's kind of gone and they're still hanging on to it sure where the early 70s the rock stars were the authors still and they want to keep that going. And it's like, guys, it's not happening. Yeah, no one cares about Philip Roth anymore. God bless you.

Philip Roth barely cared about Philip Roth towards the end. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that whole thing, because I talk to Lipsight all the time and he came up in that, in that whole, whole literary swagger. Oh, really? Sure. Well, it's gone. Well, no.

I mean- And his old man, who was a New York Times sports writer, but also a novelist and saw himself as one of those guys. Out of that generation. Sure. He's best friends with Jules Feiffer. Oh. They hang around down on Shelter Island. Of course they do.

Yeah. And they're all just sitting around wondering what happened yeah i i don't do enough reading i'm trying to get back into it yeah do you i mean i do a lot you do right yeah man for a long time i stopped because i got we were all wrapped up in my brilliant fucking career like, you need to enjoy other parts of your life besides your dumb career. Sure, but I mean, but you've got a wife that, you know,

does not necessarily, she seems high energy and engaged. Yes. And you have a daughter who is what now? 13. So where the fuck do you find time to read? I don't have either of those things and I barely manage.

I have, because there are program downtimes in my world, if I'm on a plane, that's a chunk of time. You don't watch a movie again for the fourth time? No, I don't know. You know what? I'm a little spoiled because I have a small screening room in my house. That's not a brag.

The house came with it. Yeah. And so now it's hard for me to watch things on my iPad now. I want the experience. See, wait. You can take the screening room on the plane? It's weird. They're not.

You're allowed. It counts as three bags, but I can't pay that. Come on. It's so expensive. You can break it apart. It comes in three pieces. I get two seats in first class, and I have a screening room. You mentioned Jules Feiffer.

Yeah. I found some old quote by him that I wrote down. It was so brilliant. He goes, I got my dad's opinions, looks, and temperament, and I got my mom's contempt for my father. Like, that's what he is. I was like, that's exactly what I am. Your folks are still alive, right? Yeah, yeah.

Although, yeah. I mean, they're alive. It's a yes or no, I think. I don't know how present one of them is going to be in the near future. Me neither. Yeah. My dad's got the dementia. Yeah.

He just started. Yeah, my mom is- We're all pretty excited. My mom is in the early part of it, which means she's in complete violent denial. Sure. But what is it? Like the day of shit that gets a little vague? Yeah.

Exactly. Because my dad, I got a whole envelope of pictures from his past that I must have gotten from his relatives, like college pictures, adolescent pictures when he was a kid. He remembered everything. He remembered his dog's name from when he was a kid. When you showed him the pictures? Yes. Okay.

Well, if you play people music from from their youth or they can, they will relock onto those memories, but then it's the dealing with the day to day. What did we do yesterday? Doesn't remember a movie he saw that day. Exactly. Yeah. And there's, cause there's so much chaff in the air now and it all kind of blends together. I think it is.

I don't know what causes it. I don't know why that generation of people seems to be getting it. It doesn't seem to be like, well, they just didn't have a name for it. I think something is causing it. Yeah. It doesn't seem to be like, well, they just didn't have a name for it. I think something is causing it. Yeah. I don't want to speculate. What if it's a defense mechanism for something that we can't see

or feel yet that's coming? The way that a herd will unconsciously react to something that hasn't quite come yet? Is that your idea? I just thought of it right now, but what if it's a weird defense mechanism? That the octogenarians are preparing somehow?

I think it is. It's a defense mechanism against knowing they're going to die. Well, that, yeah. But then also that even if they do live, it might be a world not worth living in. Well, you don't need a defense mechanism to take a genius. You can do that at any age now. Yeah, exactly. Well, I mean mean that's why i

think so many people live online it's weirdly comforting just to go well of course i don't go out the world sucks what look at the tv i guess you know i don't know i sit there in my i just watch my lawn die i just you know it's like we can only water twice a week all i'm doing is i just live in constant panic of uh water well yeah like any like because no one's talking about it and i'm like how many pictures of a half-empty Lake Mead do we have to see before it's sort of like, I don't think they're going to tell us, guys. Glad I have all the liquid death.

Michael Burry, the guy in the big short, the Christian Bale character. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. The weird on-the-special guy that saw, he could see in numbers, all that $900 million he made on shorting the he has spent it all to own water rights because because he knows what's coming really he's just looking at numbers and like yes me no water so he's buying them in different states that have water and how does that

work and countries i don't know i mean yeah i think you can own the land that where an aquifer is or you can own the land where a glacier is i I don't know. Again, here's the other thing. I don't know any. I don't know. Me neither. I don't. I have no idea. Like Bitcoin.

You've got big ideas, though. You've got big ideas. I have big theories, but as far as implementing them. Like my reaction- No Bitcoin for you? You seem like a guy that's- No. And you know what?

It seems almost comic book-like to me. It seems like something you would know a lot about. Yeah, except it's all villains. There's no actual heroes jumping in with the Bitcoin. It's all scumbags. Right. As I said on Curb Your Enthusiasm, it's all nerds and Nazis. I'm not putting your money in there.

That's right. It is. It is all nerds and Nazis, and there's a lot of crossover. Oh, boy. That's the amazing thing. Boy, did we find that out, huh? That Steve Bannon pulled off is he really got those gamers involved

in a very exciting game called Nazism Manifested. Yeah, it is. It's a LARP. It's a big RPG for these people. A lot of them don't leave their houses. Yeah. But just the idea that so many people that were originally into comic books or science fiction, we assumed, well, they're in touch with the underdog or the outsider, the people on the fringes.

And you realize, oh, no, nobody bullies harder than the formerly bullied. And once they became, we own the culture now, they became the new bullies. There's something. Very creepy. I don't understand when I see them, when I see like the Steven Crowders of the world or some of these other guys that are running around with microphones at CPAC and it's just sort of like, I can't even identify them from my past. Like, I don't know who those kids were. Yeah, I don't remember anyone like that in comedy coming up.

I don't remember. Well, no. I mean, Crowder thinks he's some sort of comedian. Yeah. But they're just, they're, it's, I don't know if they're conscious propagandists, but they just are talking point spewers. And they just seem to have this very specific point of view that seems to lack any sort of tolerance or empathy or even sort of understanding. But my fear is that maybe they do have understanding. Maybe they do know exactly what they're gunning for.

But my fear is that maybe they do have understanding. Maybe they do know exactly what they're gunning for. Well, but maybe they, I think they understand that on a surface level, but they don't understand what's going on unconsciously. Yeah. And what's going on unconsciously is. I want cock. Well, I mean, come on. But with all bad comedians, hacks don't like variables and every crowd has its own thing and you gotta either make it work.

They want, they're the parallel with the kids in college who just studied for the test. Tell me what I need to know so I can parrot it back and get my A. They don't want to actually interpret what they're learning. They're not imaginative. And so as comedians, you're like, I want a crowd where I

know the eight things to say to get my eight applause breaks and then i will sell my t-shirts and buttons but they don't seem to be the enemy those ones they just seem to be the new uh that's just sort of ambition manifested through social media platforms pulling crowds in for shoddy crowd work and yeah but even some even some of the people that have really taken advantage of social media they've taken advantage of social media and they do there does seem to be a love of doing comedy i don't think someone like steven counter loves comedy i think he loves the rewards and well he likes starting shit he's become something other than a comedian he's

yeah yeah yeah he's like a pundit of sorts. And he's like every bad comedian we remember growing up, when we came up, that would tell the audience how dangerous they were, how brave they were for laughing at this edge walker. Remember they would always- It's a new hack, dude. Yeah, strap in and welcome to the inside of my mind. The only guy that could do that and mean it was Hicks. Yeah, exactly, because he actually was walking tables.

He set the standard. I hate that they co-opted the language of what was once a kind of rebel tone of comedy. Because there's only been a few guys that do that at any given time. Exactly. And by the way, there should only be a few guys. If it's everyone, it's not fun. No, but there's not many people that just have the balls to do that. I mean, it's just like either you're going to do that because you have no other choice.

Yeah. The guys that do that weren't like, well, I gave up being a clown. You know what I mean? Well, you're right. Actually, the truly edgy comedians, the ones who really walked out there on the edge like a Hicks, like a Pryor, what really makes them edgy is they don't think they're edgy. They're like, I don't understand why people don't think they're edgy they're like I don't understand why people don't think this is just how I think I guess it wasn't a conscious choice

well Pryor like is you know I think Pryor redefined what became mainstream I mean I think he he was edgy because he turns back on something Hicks was always Hicks you know Stan Hope was has always been Stan Hope yeah um you know I don't know what that guy that you guys came up with, Mark Voice, whether he was, like, I didn't get the sense, I got the sense that he was of that tradition. He was of that tradition.

He was, I mean, and he actually, he was from poor, violent, working class Baltimore stock and he had that really angry, didn't have access

to education but read all the time so it was trying to kind of fight it like trying to get his voice through but had that dick bomber accent man but i would remember we shared an apartment i walked i came home one night he he would write his jokes on on like receipts and put it keep them in an ashtray yeah oh really yeah and i picked one up one night all it was written on it was what are old people cooking that stink so much? There you go. It just got us the whole, I was like, okay.

That could have been the hook. That could have been the hook, exactly. Well, I think, yeah, I think that's sometimes what's wired in, but you don't have it. What's wired into some people with a certain type of talent is- But I flirted with it, but it wasn't, but it was fake, it was a put on. Right, but you've never, like some people are wired, some talented people. It's sort of an unspooling, you know, they have the talent and it's in constant competition with them trying to kill themselves.

Right. That's the race. It's like, man, I got all this talent. It's a, I don't know how to manage it, but I also am trying to kill myself. Yeah. It's, you know what it is? And it's weird when sometimes that butts up against actual acceptance and adulation. Oh, no, that's it.

That they don't know how to handle it. You told that great story. You saw Hicks. You were with Hicks. I think it was in New York. I'm a poet. And then a woman just went, well, then say a poem. Tell us a poem.

Tell us a poem. And she really wanted to hear it. And then it froze him. He didn't know what to do. She wasn't like, we're angry at him. He was something else. He was such a solitary character. Did you ever spend time with him?

On the road a few times. You did? But not like, you know who hung out with him a lot was Blaine. I hung out with him a couple times. He would call Blaine and they would go hang out. That makes sense. But I remember when he died, all of a sudden he had 50 best friends. Oh, sure.

And I was like, no. Yeah. He was very selective. We maybe spoke three times. Yeah. And we worked together three times. He would be very quiet and do his stuff. He was a nice person, but he wasn't like-

Reading in his little coat. Yeah. Yeah, I hung out with him in New York, and we played guitar once, and he said, I don't usually do this. Okay, what? You mean talk to people or play guitar with anybody? But yeah, he was a character, man.

He was a character. He told me when I was opening for him after I saw him, it was such a revelation. And then midweek, I was going out of my way to suddenly put on a Bill Hicks costume and be Bill Hicks. Like the all black business? Well, no, just an attitude, like trying too hard to be dangerous. Sure. I remember that, Patton.

Yeah. And then after one of the shows, he just went, Patton, an attitude, like trying too hard to be dangerous. Sure. I remember that, Patton. Yeah. And then he, after one of the shows, he just went, Patton, come here, man. Yeah, he goes, you got to walk them to the edge. Like, you've got to win their trust. You're trying to, are you, like, because his act, what people forget about Bill Hicks is the first 20 minutes of his act was just the most hysterical. Good joke. Accessible.

And then he would hit them with the darkness. Good jokes. Oh, my God. Yeah. Literally jokes about flying on airplanes. They were brilliant. Sure. That one joke.

This one simple joke. I always repeat it because it kills me. It's like, so we've been going out for a year and a half. I guess time to ask the big question. Why are we still going out? I love the airline bit about sitting on the plane, won't take off.

I hear about these hijackers. I'm like, you know what? I paid for a ticket. It won't take me where I want to go. Go ahead. Just take it. Here, we put a gun to the pilot's head. I'm hijacked.

Where? To its scheduled destination. Now go. He's very smart. Yeah. Yeah, very smart. You know, follow through. Oh, God. You know what I mean Yeah. Yeah, very smart. You know, follow through. Oh, God, yeah.

You know what I mean? Yeah. And he, by the way, he was also just a very limber, meat and potatoes, great performer. Great faces, great physicality. Really pushed it. He knew how to sell that stuff. Yeah, I think I've just begun doing that. Finally?

Yeah. Well, there's a lot of things that happened for me finally that you know because i was such i was always at odds with myself and with my audience really in my mind but this like really within the last week i'm working this hour and a half two hours a chunk that's like been because i've had such a long uh there's it's been such a long time between when i shoot the special that got pushed. So I've been really moving some of this stuff, polishing it for over a year, a year and a half. But I'm not sick of it because what's happening is I know I can do an hour, an hour and a half,

which to me is like an hour and a half, two hours, which is great. I don't know why. It's just one of those dick swinging things. I'm doing two hours. But it's good. It's just one of those dick swinging things. Like, I'm doing two hours. But it's good. It's solid. Yeah. But now I'm like, if I have a good audience and they're my audiences and I trust them,

like, I'll just, I'll spread it out. I'll time it right. I'll physicalize more than usual. I'll add a few beats. And then I have these pockets where I can just fucking riff and see where I go because I know I'm going to land again. And I've got three or four pockets. You know what you're doing? That's actually kind of brilliant.

You're doing this thing that drives me crazy, but you're working it into the process. After I shot my special, I shot it in May, and this happens all the fucking time. You shoot your special, and then the shows you have after your special, you suddenly think of eight better tags or things you could have dropped out the whole time.

You're like, oh, this is so... And it's... I remember talking to Mitch Hedberg about that. He goes, nothing's more refreshing when you put something down and you're like, oh, I have eight better versions of this and it's already out there. It's gone. I used to do that on Conan all the time, but it didn't matter because no one was coming to see me

and no one gave a shit. They would call me on a two days notice or a day notice if someone dropped out. You got any panel? That's right. You were in town. I was a panel guy. Yeah.

So I'd do all these half-baked bits. And no one cared. Just work them out? Yeah, work them out. I knew there was a couple laughs. I knew that the idea was funny and I got one beat. But they'd eventually become bigger bits. But yeah, the benefit of doing this is I know I got to get it down to like 75 minutes.

Yes. And so what I'm hoping for, what will be revealed in the next couple months, is a genuine through line. And I started improvising some weird kind of this, it's sort of a patiny kind of thing, where somehow I ended up with this George Soros Colossus, who was bigger, like three times as big as the planet Earth,

and he was just fucking the planet Earth. And he had a ship that was hovering beside him which was the Suros ship and all the famous Jews of history

are in the ship that have died and he's going to dispatch Jesus. It's up to George. What, he's like their Odin basically? Taking him on a chariot

over to, okay. No, but he can, you know, you can get a seat on the ship. It was a long thing. I don't know why but it happened

right after, what's his name, Orban, the Hungarian fascist. When he spoke at the CPAC, is that what it's called? The day after, I'm like, it's time to push the surah spit. Yes, exactly.

I don't know, it was just a riff, and I was sort of like, could this be something that comes back and around? A giant closer that somebody animates on YouTube? So, this movie, I Love My Dad,

which I watched last night, which is disconcerting. It's very- But entertaining. But, and unnerving. It's a little unnerving, but it's more sort of like, ooh, okay. Yeah, we're going to go there? And this, how? And also the thing that like it actually happened to the writer director.

And then of course then in your mind, well, how much of this. It really happened to him? Oh, yeah. His dad really catfished him because he had cut his dad out of his life. He had a very fucked up relationship. Yeah. I think they've repaired it now. But the father started a Facebook profile of a cute girl and would talk to him.

Oh, my God. And just wanted to talk about their day. But then, of course, James sort of fell in love with this girl and started flirting with her. And the father didn't want to lose the connection. So kind of half flirted back the whole thing. Dude, it's uncomfortable. It's a little creepy. And it's always good to have Lil Rel Howie in there to do the quick punches.

It should say Lil Rel Howry as the audience. Because he's basically the, the fuck are you doing? Wait, this is incest. That's all he is. He's always that guy. And it's always hilarious. And he's great. He's so necessary.

He's so funny. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love that guy. Thank God that he's there. He was great, too, on the set. No, he's a great guy. Hi, Lil. How you doing, man? Yeah, yeah.

So happy to see him. But so this, it's weird how, because you were texting me earlier about how this move, this script came around to you like three years ago. In 2019 in August, I got emails from a director and he just wanted me to be that guy. Yeah, the dad. Yeah, because it made sense. But then like my agents within days were sort of like, don't read the script. It looks like the kid who wrote it wants to direct it. We don't know where it's at.

And now here it is. You're the guy. But then I had to wonder the whole time, how would I play? It would have been such a different game. Oh, it would have been. Again, I love the fact that Big Fan, which was originally a script called Paul Alfiero, that had made the rounds for 10 years. Sandler had it.

Philip Seymour Hoffman had it. Oh, really? Oh, yeah. And the guy that wrote it wrote The Wrestler. And the money he got for writing The Wrestler, he it philip seymour hoffman had it oh really oh yeah and the guy that wrote it wrote the wrestler and that the money he got for writing the wrestler yeah um he used to go make big fans when it came to me he's like here's how we're doing it i'm taking all of my wrestler money and this is the because that's the script that got him all this other work right so he's like i'm gonna fucking shoot this thing finally i can't and i just love that spirit so much of like, I'm going to put all my own money into it. I mean, that was literally, there were no, my dressing room was the back of his car.

Yeah. And the sets. I like that turn in that movie where you think that you're going to take real action. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I take symbolic action, which in my mind is taking real action. Yeah, I like that. I thought that was good. So, okay. So you're in the car with that. You're sweeping. The dressing room is the van. The van. action which in my mind is taking real action yeah i like that i thought that was good so okay

so you're in the car with that you're sweeping the dressing room's the van the van and then like the scout location scouting was does anyone know someone with access to a hospital because we lost the hospital set today it was literally like that like day-to-day running gun yeah and what was this one i mean because the kid the key seems like a young kid that wrote and directed it. He's a very young kid. He acts a lot. He used to be a model. He directed another film called Three Something that's just as cringy. Yeah, that's the word I'm looking for, cringy.

Yeah, and a bigger, this, Hans Films got on it and then asked me to produce it. And once I came on, I think it helped get,. I mean, it was still super low budge. Yeah. The movies that you end up really meaning a lot to you is terms like you never make money off of. Is that true? Yeah, I'm kind of using the Steve Buscemi model where I will go and do some big budget stuff

and then that gives me the breathing room to go do something that's not going to make me any money, but I love the script so much. But don't you make like truckloads of dough on the TV stuff and the voice stuff i yeah i do very i'm not complaining about that i do i do really right voiceover but what i'm saying is the stuff that is really that's going to end up being very very personal don't expect to make a lot of money on like what else what like what uh well there's a there's a i have a creator-owned comic book that

i'm doing now for dark horse which is is a story. That's a regular gig? It's going to be, yeah. It'll start this month. So you're going to do the whole story? Me and another writer, yeah. But we own it. It's ours. Yeah.

But you don't make a lot of money writing comics. No, I thought those were fortunate. Well, unless your thing gets developed as something. Sure, sure. I mean, you know, Neil Gaiman was scraping along for years, and now he's insanely successful. I just talked to him. He hasn't been scraping, you know, not too recently. No, not too recently. No, and now he's insanely successful. I just talked to him. He hasn't been scraping, you know, not too recently. No, not too recently.

No, no, no, no, no. I talked to him. I said to him. He was sitting in here a couple weeks ago. Yeah. And I said to him, I said, if you're going to make more of these with Patton, I said, I want him to make the noise of the bird. Oh, really?

I want Patton to go, ah! Oh, I got to do the squawking? Yeah. I said, that was the only flaw. God damn it. I was like, there's Patton to go, ah! Oh, I got to do the squawking? I said, that was the only flaw. God damn it. I was like, there's Patton. I want to hear Patton in Patton voice go, ah! Yeah.

There you go. Yeah. But yeah, I remember when I was at the IFC Awards one year and Steve Buscemi went up for Tree's Lounge. Yeah. The first person he thanked was Michael Bay. Because he was like, thank you for the, hmm, so I can make my movie. Well, how come how come well you were

a producer on this what would that what did that require of you uh just you know coordinating all the different departments and talking to people and making sure that they were you did that this person a lot of it not all of it it's not just a slate you actually were an active producer yes I was an active producer like like you didn't just say like I'll do it if you put my name on no no that's that's called associate producer which I'm also a lot of but this was actually like You didn't just say, like, I'll do it if you put my name on. No, no. That's called associate producing, which I'm also a lot on. But this was actually like, hey, this person and this person and, you know, get people on. So you had your hand in casting and everything?

Yes. And also some of the, I mean, I was given all the materials as they would go along. Here we're scouting this location, this location. Luckily, we had an amazing. Had you done that before? Not really. No. I mean i mean i'd seen it was weird because i did that and then this year i directed my netflix special and that was also me constantly emailing and texting every this just one you just shot the one that's right i saw you tweeting about that yeah yeah well self-directing yourself that seems uh all right well what was weird was you just have to super prepare where you want the cameras to be beforehand. Have it in your head where you're going to be on stage.

Sure. Trust the departments to get that. And the crew that I had had shot a million specials. They knew exactly what to do. What was the point? I mean, it's not like that's not a money thing. No. You just thought it would be easier?

Was it more a practicality thing? I wanted to get the confidence to go, oh, yeah, I can work with a lot of different people and deal with that input and still do my creative work. Okay, so you... I was always afraid of taking on that role. Oh, so you really haven't. You didn't direct any AP bios or no... No, I was going... No King of Queens?

I was shadowing some of the directors and then the show didn't get... Well, then we got shut down for COVID and then the show didn't get, well, then we got shut down for COVID, and then the show didn't get picked up. Uh-huh. Well, no. Even worse. I was shadowing some of the directors, and then when the show came back after COVID, they were like, we can only have minimal, you can't shadow people right now. Uh-huh.

Because we can only have minimal people, and then the show didn't get picked up. But on whatever future show I'm going to do, I'm going to ask to shadow. Right now, I just haven't had the time. But I mean, how much do you have to shadow. Right now, I just haven't had the time. But I mean, how much do you have to shadow? You've been on TV sets for 200 episodes of things. Yeah, but those were like A, B, C, and X camera shows. This is a single camera.

Oh, you like that stuff. There's something about three camera that's kind of fun, though. If I could get a three, it's the best job in the world. You go in Monday morning, you're done at 10. You do a producer's run through, you do a blocking run through. You tape it on Friday, you don't go until 3 or 4. The best life. But like the single camera, well, you were on Veep for a while. That was single camera kind of.

That was single camera in Baltimore and D.C. But that's a lot of running around. They had two cameras. They just call it single camera. They must have had two or three cameras here and there. For the most part, it was one. Really? Because they like that documentary feel. They don't want two or three cameras here and there. For the most part, it was one. Really? Because they like that documentary

feel. They don't want coverage. There was no overs? No, they want the, we're catching stuff as it's happening. Yeah, I get it. That was the style at the time. But you haven't written a movie? Oh, I've written plenty of movies. They just haven't been made. But are you still like a doctor? You still get shit? Yes. Oh, yeah. I was just

yes, I was actually doing some doctoring on something that I can't talk about, uh, of, you know, rewriting scenes and, and luckily now they've, um, they've realized give, give the doctor the script early before you start shooting. So that's not, you haven't sunk $80 million into the order it's already in. So if I suggest, Hey, this scene should actually happen here. Who are the directors that use you for that stuff generally? I don't want to say because it's usually not the directors.

It's usually the studio insisting the director does a doctoring pass so that they can feel better. And a lot of times because these directors are my friend, I'm there secretly to just go, hey, leave it the way it is. Right. Because I want to protect their vision you've never gotten into one of those situations where you do a pass and then have to fight for credit of the film with the uh guild the stuff that i have done a pass on i was more than happy not to have a credit on in fact one movie that i did a pass on brian posse and i did a pass on the movie and a bunch of other writers did too

and the original script was horrible the guy was paid for it and then he, the original writer fought went to the WGA and went it's only my name and then none of us contested it, we're like go right ahead and then he got paranoid like why is nobody protesting this

why does no one want their name in this well it's your movie and by the way the movie that got made didn't have a word of his shit Like, why is nobody protesting this? Why does no one want their name in this? Like, well, it's your movie. And by the way, the movie that got made didn't have a word of his shit in it. It was all us. But it was so bad. Really? I didn't want our names. We're like, can you just, we don't need to contest anything.

We can't name this movie? No, I just, I don't want to be mean. I'll tell you off, I'll tell you off camera, and there's a weird little side thing to it. But I just don't want to, I don't want to be, because here's the thing, too. And you know this. It all comes back. I got a big mouth. You have been in enough movies to go, even a movie that ends up sucking, everyone busted

their asses. They tried to make it good. I know. It just doesn't work sometimes. Well, I haven't been in as many movies. I haven't been, I know that's true, and I know that's true from talking to people, but I also know that in the racket of acting or whatever, these guys sometimes know going in.

Yeah, yeah. And you must do that at this point, that the choice is really sort of like, how many weeks is it? Yeah. Where? Yeah. Where are we shooting? Yeah.

On a cruise ship. All right. Yeah, something like that. I'll do that, yeah. For me, I get offered stuff. I'm not an actor. I don't want to be in Egypt for six months. I can't even imagine it.

Well, you don't want to be either in Egypt or in Shreveport in a warehouse in front of a green blanket with a tennis ball in front of you. That's his mouth. Talk to him there. Yeah, no. I've never done any of that green screen shit. Have you? Yeah.

Have you ever done special effects stuff? Not really. I've done a little bit of it. I've only been animated. Yes. And that shit, voiceover's great. Didn't you write that bit for Stiller on the Oscars? Was that you?

In the green suit? Yeah. That wasn't me. No, no. I wrote a thing for him for the movie awards where Will Ferrell plays his gratitude, his acceptance speech coach. Oh, okay. Where he comes out and he goes, this speech is bullshit.

Yeah. We're about gratitude, not attitude, Ben. That thing in the green suit was too funny. Yeah, it was really good. And that's what so many actors have to deal with now. Because he's so funny with physical comedy. I mean, he's very gifted in that thing that he doesn't do anymore. Well, because he's become such a fucking great director.

I know, yeah. I don't think he's hungry to be in front of the camera anymore. He didn't get locked into being a fucking screwball his whole life. Yes. That doesn't age well. I can name three other dudes. Yeah. Two.

One. Well, but yeah, there's a certain age where you're like, yeah, you can't be doing this. No, and you can't try to make it happen anymore. No. Who the fuck knows what's funny? It's so rare to see something funny. Yeah. I mean, especially now, comedy isn't such a weird, although, you know, comedy-

I don't know what's happening, dude. But comedy always goes through these cycles of- Is that true? Like what kind of cycle? You remember us back in the early 90s in San Francisco, there was all this shit about, you know, that was the birth of politically correct. Was it? Oh, yeah.

And there was, stuff was changing and there was the old guard. And just like there was the old guard that was angry again about- You mean the old guard being just like there was the old guard that was angry again about the old guard being just bobby swain what's that he's still i i've loved working with him he was such a sweetheart and just and would destroy audiences like just destroy them sometimes i mean i think that it was an indicator of the time you were talking about when he would do the punch and it was not so destroy yeahy. Yeah, yeah. There was a point where people were like, no. But stuff always,

comedy can't stay the fucking same and nothing can because if it does, then it dies. It has to mutate. Yeah, the evolution of language is one thing, sure. Yeah, and there will be a time

when you and I won't matter anymore and that's fine. Like you do your time. That happened two years ago for you and it's just starting to happen for me starting I just want to walk away to the dust like John Wayne at the end of the searchers like I did my part I'm done sure with no one watching the movie exactly what's that guy doing I don't know a scene of some kind walking close the door I don't need to see. Hey. That's right. That's right. The door is open.

Shut the door. Fuck it up to shut. Moron. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's also there's 7 billion people on the planet. We can't entertain all of them. If you find your little- Dude, I can't entertain.

I've grown to accept, though I will judge myself against you, because I know you do amazingly well in some cities. And then just like me in some cities, it's sort of like, no, 600's good. Exactly, yeah. Oh, no, dude, hey, there's plenty of cities I've gone to where I'll get that seating chart the day before from the tour guide. Hey, where are the tickets? Oh, wow. Oh, shit.

And then they go, no, it'll look fine. They'll just darken the balcony. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I've been there for sound check where they're hanging the curtains in front of the two balconies. You're like, okay. I don't even care anymore. It's weird. Because it really, because like, it's not going to be, we're not going to like, it's not going to be sparse.

Like, so even if it's the only venue they have in the region and you don't sell out the balcony, but you still sell 500 tickets. I'm good. It's great. the region and you don't sell out the balcony but you still sell 500 tickets. It's great. Look, the thing I've always said in 1993 was the first year that I could just

do stand-up. I made 11 grand that year but it was enough to pay my rent and make me not have to have a day job and to me that was like, I fucking made it. Dude, I remember. All I gotta do is do stand-up. I just remember having $800 in the bank. I couldn't believe it. I was like, this is amazing.

What am I going to do with this shit? I have $800 in the bank. Yeah. I remember, I would remember rolling nickels, literally doing nickel rolls to get the $2 to go down to the toy boat and afford a cup of coffee. And I don't want to sound like some fucking Damon Runyon thing, but that was a big deal when I had accumulated enough nickels to put in a $2 roll and be like, this will get me a coffee and free refills for the day. I'm set.

Where was that place? Remember at the corner of 5th and Clement, the toy boat? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Caddy Corner from the zoo. Sure, sure, from the zoo, yeah. Yeah. But you guys lived over there, right? Right.

Brian and I live right there. With Short? No, with Blaine. Was you guys in Blaine? because I was living in the Mission. That's right. I remember I went down to- You waited my house on Fell Street. I moved to Fell Street with Kim on the Panhandle.

And you lived in, it was a nice neighborhood, but it was still had a sense of sketch to it. Where you were living is so- On the Panhandle. Yeah, beyond affordable now. sketch to it where you were living is so on the panhandle yeah because it's like yeah it's affordable now yeah it's like with a few blocks from deviz there were certain from the western edition was that what it's called yeah but in in in in talking about that stuff like because i'm trying to figure out what is really happening with comedy because there's so many things that were not there when we were starting out it was one thing one thing when politically correct things started happening, but that was the nature of San Francisco.

Yeah. But San Francisco was also the most embracing place where you couldn't do – you and I couldn't have really continued to come up anywhere else. No. I hit a wall where I was. I hit a wall back in D.C., definitely. They were always so – it was an embracing – they wanted to see you take chances, and they wanted things to be weird. Yeah, but I think the other thing that a lot of comedians that are coming up now are missing that we had is they don't have their time in the wilderness that we had. Everything is being filmed now, and a lot of them are unwisely.

And by the way, I wouldn't be any different if I was 18. If I had access to Instagrams, I'd be posting my shit like an idiot all the time but you'd be but there's an entitlement to it because they they know that's the game yes the idea is not to be hicks it's not to be a great headliner no it's like you know how many of these fucking crowd work tiktoks can i get out points to get uh 200 people into a club right but but But what I'm saying is whatever their thing that they break. Fucking old guys. Listen to us. Whatever they.

These fucking kids. Just be honest. I had to record my first album on a wax cylinder. Yeah. Like when I was coming up, I had so many influences. You were a massive influence on me. Blaine was a massive influence. There were times when I didn coming up, I had so many influences. You were a massive influence on me. Blaine was a massive influence. There were times when I didn't have my voice.

I had a version of you, then a version of Blaine, then a version of Proops because I was forming myself. Yeah, a little Weinhold. It was, yeah. Oh, my God. I was, yes, Weinhold. And it took me, but nobody was filming me. I had to Weinhold. But now there's these people coming up that they are just, I see what Joe Rogan's doing.

I want to do that. What is he doing? No, I know what you mean. Yeah. They want to be part of it. I don't think anybody looks at Joe Rogan and says, I want to emulate his comedy. I couldn't even identify what that would be. I've always said about Joe, what's so ironic and kind of beautiful about him is, Joe Rogan

is doing what people like you and kind of beautiful about him is joe rogan is doing what you and you people like you and i were always saying people should do push the boundaries experiment with drugs question reality the only thing that went wrong with him was someone gave him 200 million dollars that's where he went nuts like if i had a podcast about knitting and someone gave me 200 i would fuck yarn on my podcast i would have gone nuts sure you would you would knit it into uh into a swastika some Some sort of, yeah. New libertarian flag. You would invite the troops.

But yeah, all my time in the wilderness before I could figure out, and there's still times when I, like, I remember I worked with you a few weeks ago at the comedy store and your stuff was and was like, oh shit, I'm going to start talking like him for a goddamn week again I get that a little bit you never

I that happens to me sometimes with but it's like my it's not the angry guys anymore sometimes I'll find a little Bargatze infusion just like you get the weird pace of Nate yeah generally and every once in a while a gaffigan will slip in yeah yeah well there's yeah there's there's something so defiant especially with all of the anger when you're someone like a while, a gaffigan will slip in. Yeah. Yeah. Well, there's something so defiant, especially with all of the anger, when you're someone like a Nate or a Jim, and you're talking about the goofiest shit. Yeah, yeah. There's something kind of defiant about, oh, no, no, I'm going to talk for 20 minutes about toaster pastries.

Sure. And it's going to be brilliant. Yeah, yeah. In the face of everything that's going on around us. You learn how to have a fun time. You learn how to have a good time. Exactly. I'm actually amusing have a good time. Exactly. I'm actually amusing myself.

But it's weird. Do you really look at yourself, though? Do you look at old videos of yourself and not see you? Because I look at stuff of me in 89, and I see me. No, I see parts of me, but I also see me dealing with my influences. Sure, sure. And I've never understood these people that try to hide their influences like no one bursts out of the forehead of Zeus fully formed

nobody? is that true? that's true it's fine you can influence yourself sure there was an army of Atels in New York when I was there yes oh my god Atel was another huge there's times when there's old bits I'll watch like oh fuck that's his rhythm Atel yeah blah blah blah blah blah yeah was another huge there's times when there's old bits i'll watch like oh fuck i did that's his rhythm yeah yeah i still we text each other all the time because i'll come up with something i'm

like oh yeah do you do anything like this because this sounds like you well no he'll he'll text me like i asked him about the angel factory i asked you too yeah in fact i even said i'm like that sound the only one that could come close to be a tell. So text him right now. He's like, no. Yeah, I get texts from him in the middle. He hardly ever texts me. Then he's just going, do you do a thing about jerking off in the Bible? No.

You can have that one. God, that's a good tell. Hey, Marin. Do you? Good to tell. Hey, Marin. Do you? But so if you're not, if you're in this weird, I'm not saying that you're in some kind of twilight zone.

You clearly still like doing standup, but you also are in. It's the best right now. It is. Why is it the best? I just recommitted somehow, you know, after Lynn died and after the COVID. Like, you know i during covid i'm like i don't know if i even need to do it anymore my thought was a it was a weird thought process it was just sort of like maybe i'm all better and maybe i fixed it yeah they don't need this

shit yeah but once i started doing it again because i had to you know get an hour together for the new york comedy festival which you know that's all i always i work on incentive so like if i have something, then something else. I never know where I'm going to get an hour. Right, right. But for some reason, this time, I'm just like, I'm fucking just going out, dude. If you've got a brainwave going, just enjoy it. Yeah, well, I don't think I ever knew how to do that. And I think that when I started doing theaters, I knew that I wasn't afraid anymore.

But I don't know that I've really been. And I think I'm probably a little indulgent but fuck it man I'm 58 do it now and also like I'm not like is anyone complaining that they're getting two hours from you? No but it's just weird because like having been

being a comic that's never been huge like there's none of that because I see a lot of guys that have been at a certain level forever. And this part of me is like, enough. Put it away. You've proved your point. Strip down.

Some of these boomers got to get out of the way. But look, I have to let that go because I have a good audience and I'm doing the best work I've done. The stuff that you're the most excited to do. Sure. That's got to feel great.

It's just like, well, I can see the growth in it. Like, I feel like I've landed where I am. You know, I'm not like stuck somewhere. Do you know what I mean? It's all part of an evolution. You push through. That's got to feel great. Right.

But like, you know, but like it's a limited people. It's a limited, they're my audience, but it's not like... I couldn't do an arena. You wouldn't want to. No, I know. But there's part of me that's like, why isn't my appeal broader? Well, but a lot of people that are in an arena, and this is not to put down arena comics,

a lot of people are there because they want to be with the biggest crowd. Historic. But there's nothing that... There's a lot of times when you'll see an audience tweeting about an arena comedian they just saw. And what's weird is they're never tweeting about any bits that really blew them away or blasted through them. They're just like, it was just, I mean, you know the PC police were shitting their pants. Yeah, what did he say? Just, you know, it was just amazing.

Like, oh, there's nothing there. But it's a happening. Yes. Yeah, I get it. I remember seeing, you know, big, huge bands in arenas, and I can't quite remember. But then I remember seeing bands in smaller rooms. I can remember every fucking second of it.

I was at the Viper Room one night and pj harvey came in unannounced and did like songs from the city songs from the sea like just kind of rough hadn't come out yet oh yeah i've i remember literally she was so fucking amazing in this tiny room that wasn't even phil she was just like i'm just working this stuff out yeah i'm sure there's somebody everybody was connected to her there's got to be someone saying that about one of my sets at Boston Comedy Company on 3rd Street, Manhattan, when it was nine scattered people. Yeah, but I've had those nights where I'd be at the UCB or something, but I came off

stage so energized, everything connected, and I know that there would be an arena-level comic that would go that was horrible only because the numbers weren't huge I guess so but it's like but the didn't you feel the connection in that room it was amazing I think most of the people we know that can actually do arenas or you know still do club work oh yeah to work it out and I

do know that feeling that you but you know what I feel is like you have to appreciate yourself in that moment because you realize like that's never gonna happen again I don't know where that came from yeah and i can't recapture that no and then you try to it's like because things get delivered on stage you're like oh i'm gonna add that in it never works it never works that drives me fucking crazy when something works one night yeah i mean you do the exact same wording exact same inflection and it not only does it not work again yeah it never works again i know what was going on

that year to stop doing it yes exactly you keep hammering yeah oh wait that's right that was just that one night yeah can't you can't get it back what comic books do you read every month um there's a lot of really interesting smaller publishers now that are giving people and what's amazing is a lot of really big writers that can't get something sold as a tv show or a movie yeah they'll sell it as a comic book because they own it and it's like getting free storyboards for your work oh that's interesting uh for instance there's a um a company called aftershock comics and they did this amazing you would love this it's a title called maniac of new york and basically it's imagine like you know jason voorhees from friday the 13th yeah oh there's a guy named um uh like i murder harry or something he's like a jason type pops up in new year's eve

85 murders 12 people the police shoot him he doesn't die he vanishes and now um every few years or every few months he pops up in new york and murders some people yeah and the city of new york just adjusted to him. It's like, well, there's a maniac terrorist. Don't give him any more attention? Well, no. It's just like we lose a few people every year. And think of the people we lose to gun violence.

Everyone's like, well, am I not going to live in New York? That's where I'm making all my money. Right. And the city has adjusted to an unkillable maniac, which is what would happen. And then there's a new people. Just that some of the concepts are so brilliant. Yeah. You know,

it's just, there's so much stuff. And there's another guy named Charles Sewell that does big ticket stuff for like Marvel, Star Wars and X-Men. And then he'll go and sell a little book. He does one now called 8 billion genies. And one day on earth,

everyone wakes up, everyone has their own genie that will grant them one wish. Yeah. And then you see the effects on the earth of every person getting one, earth everyone wakes up everyone has their own genie that will grant them one wish yeah and then you see the effects on the earth of every person getting one whatever the fuck they want to have happen does it come through their phone uh it's they just float next to them and and they're there until you make your wish and then they disappear really but suddenly like you know the the empire state building is made of mac and cheese because someone's some crazy. I want it to be made of it.

And so there's there's suddenly superheroes everywhere. Yeah. And then like nine hundred like nine hundred thousand people all win the lottery. Like it's all. Oh, that's funny. But then a lot of shit starts canceling itself out. Right. It's me.

And then it's just amazing. Oh, that's funny. Yeah. Whoever. So it's just all these really cool concepts. What's your comic about? It is. It's called Minor Threats, and it's about a group of blue-collar-level supervillains.

I just knock over a bank. I've got some small powers. Yeah. And a major, major supervillain, like Joker-level. I saw a picture of that guy. You tweeted it or something. Yes. What was the name of the guy?

Oh, the Stickman. Oh. He's a major supervillain,'s a major super villain kills a major super hero and all the big A-list super heroes are cracking down on the city and the low level guys are like I just want to fucking rob a

what the fuck is this they're hunting the big super villain to hand him over to the heroes to go we can get some credit in the favor bank and they might leave politics it's our weird... Politics. Exactly. Interesting. It's our riff on M

in a way like this fucking guy is... Because he's not doing it to make money. He's just a crazy supervillain. Right. We're not in this for the art aspect of it. You know, we're not trying to be Warhol here. I would like to rob a bank and get some fucking money, you asshole. You know? Yeah.

So it's about all those tensions. It's really fun. And so are you on TV now? I'm on The Sandman. No, I saw that. Oh, The Sandman. I'm on, you can still watch on Starz, Gaslit. Oh, yeah.

And then I'm shooting a new series for Apple Plus. What is that? It's called Manhunt, and it's about the hunt for John Wilkes Booth, the 12 day hunt. You get to wear costumes? And I get to, massive beard, gun, sword, all that. I play Lafayette

Baker who was the chief of New York police who was in charge of the hunt but was also quietly like how can I make money off of this? Well that's a big reward. If I assign my dumb cousin to this. That's a big role, huh? It's pretty interesting, yeah.

I mean, it's a huge sprawling cast. It's not just me. It's everybody. It's huge. And you didn't realize, I didn't realize this until I read the book that it's based on. I thought John Wilkes Booth shot Lincoln and then they captured him. And they did and they killed him. But for those 12 days, he was trying to get back to the Confederacy and go,

I've killed Lincoln, let's restart the war. And they would have restarted it. And it wasn't just Lincoln. That's a conspiracy? Yeah, it was a planned thing. It was like a storming, same thing, storming of the Capitol. So to just start the war. To restart the war and usurp the United States

for the South. Huh. It was crazy. Well, that seems prescient. Is that the word? Very prescient. And John Wilkes Booth was a massively famous

and successful actor. Extremely good looking, extremely beloved. Really? But just loved the South, God damn it. And this country's going the wrong fucking way and was an acclaimed actor he was a very somebody in his ear or he decided to

do this it was just the way he was raised he was raised but i mean like to to take the action he it was himself but he had people helping him people financing him it was a huge guys going this is our guy yeah there were there are parallels to like oh that was the steve bannon back then oh that was the okay oh yeah yeah yeah like all this shit there's the there's the cocks or the cokes or yeah so let me ask you like as you know for as somebody who has dealt with similar stuff i mean how what it what was the arc of your grief around michelle it was interesting and it was weird and not that i'm i'm saying this in any kind of grateful way or any kind of sage

way but it was it was very odd for me to see you i knew what you were going through i knew what the parallels were and i knew because you're i think you remember i was texting you yeah yeah right away and then i stopped because i realized part of this healing process is to now, it's got to be by himself for a while. Yeah, yeah. And you need to like not so. Right, you need to stop. Exactly.

Everyone asks like, hey, now I need to process this. I need to go line the weeds and stream for a while. It was easier with COVID. I had no choice. But I went through that. It was weird how you mentioned that, hey, maybe I'm done. I was like, maybe comedy isn't what I should be doing right now. Because if I go on stage, my wife has died, our daughter is... And I felt like if I'm on stage, is that disgusting that I'm still doing jokes? I didn't know if I

would ever do comedy again. Did you ever go through that? Like, well, I guess I'm still doing jokes? Or like, I didn't know if I would ever do comedy again. Well, that's- It was really, did you ever go through that? Like, well, I guess I'm done doing that. Well, what I go through and I talk about on stage, because there's about 15 minutes where I really talk about grief specifically in my experience in COVID. And also, what people tell you

and that feeling of, you just want to be relieved. Yes. Because when you're in it, you can't really see to to you want to be relieved yes because you get when you're in it you can't really see that it's going to go away but you can see you know the one sort of realization you have is like there's nothing unusual about this it's just right it's just my fucking turn and and the thing is is like people die some great way to put that yeah some people die you know and you know some tragically you hope that doesn't happen to you, but it happens every day. Yeah. You know, and there's no way it doesn't shift you and change you when things happen out of turn.

But, you know, it's just really dealing with, you know, when do I write a joke? When does the funny happen? Exactly. I couldn't even conceive. And can you do it? I remember what I needed was, and yes, I also toyed with the idea of, do I do a serious one-man show? But I'm like, I don't want that to be my thing. You know what got me out of it was I really re-embraced absurdity. I was watching Eric Andre and Tim and Eric.

Oh, interesting. Oh, that's right. What I do is actually, this is more helpful than me. But then there were times when I went on stage, once I started doing comedy again, I did a few sets

where I never mentioned it. And that was even weirder for the audience. Because you're like, we know what happens. You should address it. Even if you just say it once. So I had to find a way

to address it. But then my personal life to get me out of that rut was I would run into comedians who would, in a weird way, they would say, do things that made me laugh. Sure. Like at one point, like after Michelle passed away, then a friend of mine from back home's husband passed away. Yeah. Literally a month after.

And then my friend's sister passed away. All like, boom, boom, boom. Yeah. And then I was shooting some friends, and I said, go do a little guest spot on this show. Yeah. Just to give yourself something to do, get out of the house.

Yeah. And I was doing a scene with Suzie Essman, and she could tell in between takes, and I'm just like, my heart's broken. It's horrible. And she's like, hey, I know what happened, are you okay? I'm like, and I was like, well, I'm okay,

but like, Michelle passed away, then happened. Are you okay? I'm like, and I was like, well, I'm okay. But like Michelle passed away. Then literally a month later, my friend. And there's all these other people dying around me now. And I'm like, have I become like this avatar of death or something? And then she said, sweetie, you're not that important. And it made me laugh so fucking hard. It brought me out of that shit. And it made me, it just was like, oh, that just saved me right now. me right it's so funny i needed that how the comic book brain works against you sometimes exactly

is this my new superpower that i got you know what did i get bitten by a radioactive death but that's right that's like that your imagination you know you are fundamentally the the the the center of the orbit and also the narcissism of the stand-up. Of course I'm going to fucking think that. Yeah, all that shit. But I needed that. I don't know. Yeah, my experience was just I just knew I was leveled.

I mean, the thing is weird is that obviously you had a child and a longer history with your wife, but the way that it went down was similar in that I didn't see it coming. Exactly. And, you know, it happened very quickly.

Could not have been a more normal day. Right, for you it was even more, you know, tragic and quick. But like, you know, when Lynn got sick, I was like, oh, she'll get better. And then all of a sudden it's like, what? Yeah. And that, like, the trauma of that is just so fucking horrible and disorienting.

It's just terrible. Because it's like you have control of nothing. Exactly. And you realize, well, that's the truth. Yes. Right? Everything else that I have around me, the books I read, the music I listen to, that's just to drown out this very ancient darkness that we're always brushing up against. That someone gave us the gift of knowing about.

Someone reminded me of for some reason. Yeah. I don't know if I remember if I sent you, because when the show passed away, Michael Penn sent me A Grief Observed by C.S. Lewis. No, you did. You sent it to me. It's funny.

I do a bit about, you know, about. I just added a joke to the thing. You know, when somebody dies, depending on how smart your friends are, you'll probably get at least six copies of the Joan Didion book, The Year of Magical Thinking. And you want help, so you read it.

Like, I read it, and it's like, all right, her husband died, okay. You know, I don't know if it helps me. But my problem is, like, I'm a creative person, so now I'm thinking, like, nah, I gotta write a fucking book now, I guess, right? Better than that. Well, the C.S. Lewis... The Greek book I got through. Yeah, I'm a creative person. So now I'm thinking like, nah, I got to write a fucking book now, I guess. Better than that. Well, the C.S. Lewis.

The Greek book I got through. Yeah, it's a little heavier. It's so slim. It's dense. And it's so, it's weird. It's the slimmest book that took me the longest time to read because he was literally writing it as she was like he was. I can't tell you what it meant. The moment.

And that first sentence, I didn't realize how much grief felt like terror. And that put everything into immediate perspective for me. It's that what you're talking about. It is. This is terrifying. Yes. I didn't know that I was vulnerable to this. Yeah.

It's terrifying. And this is one of the greatest writers of the 20th century, not waiting a year till after. As his wife is, and he knows he's going to lose her, he's putting every her I think he knew every emotion when he married her didn't didn't yes that she knew that she was sick and but he wanted to spend whatever time he could with her which is beautiful yeah yeah beautiful like I I remembered taking bits and pieces from that I like Joan Didion's book because it was really nuts and bolts of like you know like you know going back to the house after you know

because I went dude I went down there you know it you know going back to the house after you know because i went dude i went down there you know it was the middle of covet and the doctor said that he would let me come see her after she's passed i went to the hospital that night and it was dude it was like so fucking terrible and i you know and i even like i'm just trying to figure out you know on stage i you know to to tell these stories because you start to realize everyone's dealt with this. And that's what's evolving when I keep doing this hour is that piece of material to sort of ground it

in something genuinely grounded as opposed to me trying to feel better is that six out of fucking ten people know what it's like to be on the phone with a loved one in the hospital, with a doctor, with other family members going, what's happening? Where are we at? And that day is the fucking, it's a common experience.

It's waiting for everyone. And it's scary to think about that. Yeah, it's a common experience. And I'm trying to sort of frame that stuff like that but like i just had and you know andrew garfield in here yesterday and we were talking about grief and we both got all fucking choked up and you know and like it comes right mom just passed away right yeah it's been a bit but but like you know it's just sharing grief is it's it's very human and very simple and you know and it was just sort of like a lot of

times people don't think they can handle it but sometimes you just need to fucking stand there when some you know you got to let the wave hit you and you're like no but people other people like i don't know what to do what do i do if he's just sad it's like stand there and wait till they're done crying or whatever right it was it, and especially like having a daughter that I had to like, you know, how do I, I knew a day before she did because I didn't, I remember I called her principal that day and still I can barely talk, I'm freaking out.

And then I was like, I don't know what to do. And this principal, God bless her, said, don't tell her tonight because you can't tell her. And then I now go to sleep. Right. Just tomorrow go, hey, let's not go to school. Have a daddy daughter day. Go do a lot of fun stuff in the morning.

And then she said, tell her in the sunlight so that she has the rest of the day to process it. Oh, my God. Oh, fuck. It was a nightmare. And you didn't sleep. I didn't. Oh, my God. Oh, fuck.

It was a nightmare. And you didn't sleep. I didn't. I mean, I basically, when I took her to, she said, tell her in the sunlight and then do whatever she wants to do. If she wants to stay out of school for a month, she doesn't go to school for a month. Right. And my daughter wanted to go to school that Monday. And what I realized was she wanted to, even if it was artificial, create the most normalcy she could. So when I took her to school that Monday, I had not slept in four days.

And I was all but hallucinating as I was bringing her into that school. And I just was like, and then I went up. I didn't want to leave the school because I was just so like, I thought everyone. So I just, they let me just sit up in an office for the day until it was time to pick her up. And I just kind of slept in a chair for a few hours. And then when it's three o'clock, I went down and, hey here to pick like try to make like let's go do something fun how did you explain that first night where'd you say she was um oh I said thank god that was when

Michelle was very very heavily into writing her book okay and there was a lot of times where she would um I'm going up to she would go to where where a lot of the murders were and go, I'm going to be here for a few days working with forensic people and writing. And I'm like, hey, mommy just got this big tip. She's going to be, she's checked into a hotel. She's writing. We'll see her tomorrow. Yeah. So luckily I had that thing that had happened a bunch of times.

So it didn't feel weird. Okay. It was like, oh, okay, great. And then like, when did, and that was, you know, there was was no covet so you were surrounded by friends and family yeah thank god and again not not to sound um you know maudlin but being surrounded by comedians when you were going through grief it could not be more helpful like they know how to cry with you and and then they know how to go i'll know what to say to make like, I remember like a week after Dave Rath was like

making sure that I went out and saw people. So we went to dinner with Todd Glass. Oh yeah. And Todd Glass, we went, met at this place called the Mess Hall in Los Feliz. Yeah. And we got there and Todd has a sealed envelope. He's like, you can open this later and read it if you want. You don't need to read it now. Let's just have a nice dinner. Yeah. So we had this nice dinner.

You think it's an emotional. Well, I go home. I open it up. He literally ripped the corner off of a piece of legal paper and just wrote, hi, Pat. That's all he fucking wrote. And it made me laugh so fucking. It was like, yes, thank you, Todd. I needed that.

But yeah, it was like day. And there was also, I don't know if you went through this, days where you would start crying as if it was a, it wasn't connected to a thought, connected to Michelle. It was like my body was like, oh, hey, I just need to cry for a while. Oh, yeah. That happens. Here we go. Really?

Yeah. About nothing. Well, it's about something. Well, I mean, it is about them them but it's not connected to any memory you're having no no no it's just all this weird yeah you don't know what triggers it it's just it could be someone talking about something sad and and like you the that that loss plugs in something so you're never not going to be able to cry again yeah it's like you're always going to be it's always gonna be right there it's ready to go. It is, right? It really is. I mean, it's a hair trigger with me now.

Yeah. And sometimes it's a hair trigger not when something's sad. The things that make me cry now, fuck, I'm going to get all fucked up now, is when somebody steps up for someone else that doesn't need to do that. When someone is being kind to someone, because I had so many people that didn't need to step up for me, that stepped up for me. So when I see someone go do that for someone else,

even a stranger, it wipes me the fuck out. It just, like this, even like if I was rewatching the fucking Bad News Bears and when Walter Matthau decides, like I'm going to, no, I'm going to coach his team.

Fuck it. The only vote that counts. Like, oh, he's stepping up to help these kids. I just start crying. Someone's being nice to someone. Well, that, I mean. Oh, fuck. Hang on.

I know. I think about it, too. Like, with animals, too. Like, with people helping animals, it kills me. Oh, my God. I get so invested in the, there's a purity to the vulnerability and innocence of animals. You know, that, like, you know that like you know i can't i can't take it like it drives me but but exactly what you're saying like if i'm in an aa meeting

just hearing the stories of people finding it of getting sober i'm like oh my god and it's just i always heard that and it was always sort of satisfying but now it's like just people you know the helping other people thing is really great it it's totally moving and it should be and we live in a culture where you know everyone's doubling down on on hurting people and and like look i'm almost like for clout like i'm showing you i know that i'm not supposed to be hurting people so i'm going to show you where my status is by doing the thing that other people shouldn't be doing but i have no consequence that's my status. It's so sick right now. Yeah, but I try to really embrace the vulnerability of whatever,

because I think it also, what you're talking about, and I think I can relate to, is that, look, we're selfish guys. We have narcissistic components, but when you lose somebody tragically, it just punches open a door to empathy that you didn't have before. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. I mean, you can fake it and you can be empathetic, but the depth of it now when you experience profound loss is that you know you're present for that. It's kind of wild. I'm grateful for it. No, yeah. It was actually kind of interesting. for that. It's kind of wild. I'm grateful for it. No, yeah, it was actually kind of interesting. I remember when I was listening

and I think I tweeted about the episodes with you and Proops and you and Dana where you guys were real talking about the state of comedy and you weren't attacking what was going wrong in comedy. You were genuinely struggling to understand this and why is it going this way? And it wasn't coming from

yes, there was some disdain and some frustration but there was this what the fuck is i care about this art form and also i don't understand people like it's like you think you understand people like when you look at history and you look at evil people yeah is that you know i think this is really the first time i've been able to sort of identify you know when craven people are are given license yeah they take it oh boy and and like i you know you you wonder about how like nazism worked or how these these horrible things happened you know how christians killed millions of people yeah and how like that you know in rwanda all of a sudden

people are macheting their neighbors overnight yeah because of a code word on a radio show their version of russian limbaugh said time to cut down the tall trees, and they all got the message and did it. Right. It's terrifying. As a species, it's really hit or miss, and they're all corruptible. It's very rare that you get somebody whose center of gravity and whose character is so strong that they won't kind of crumble into craven behavior somehow. Right, right. And look, I'm a comic.

There's a whole spectrum of borderline criminals in our world. There always have been. Whether they were running from alimony or raping women in Vince Champs. I remember that guy. I remember Vince. Yeah. We did the fucking comedy competition with him. But no, but my point is like, what's happening is I'm like, I don't understand this person. I don't. Yeah. We did the fucking comedy competition with him. But no, but my point is like

what's happening is I'm like, I don't understand this person. I don't understand where their heart is. And I don't understand how they can talk like this or think like this. But the truth of the matter is people believe what they believe and they have a reason for it. And it's like it's not that maybe their heart is terrible with everybody. It's just from my

point of view, how can you sign on to this? It's even with like chapelle and all this you know uh uh you know language stuff and all this it's sort of like i don't understand why i don't understand the why yeah and and i know there's a bigger arcing sort of belief system around it that isn't necessarily right wing a cultural thing yeah but but i i do still think it's shallow and i do still think it's it's uh antagonistic and and it's it's stifling progress yeah this this idea i think that some of it is insulated in the idea of free speech or this or the other thing yeah and then i think that's sort of bullshit

that whole thing with me and him at the beginning of the year was really instructive when i oh you got the picture well i was in seattle and he was like, hey, I'm over at the arena, come over. Like, again, we've known each other since we're fucking teenagers, so yeah, I go, and I did a set and got a picture with him. It was good to see, I hadn't seen him in so long. And then, so at first, and this is, again, this is how tribal and weird shit is.

Yeah. First, suddenly all of these right-wing alt-right guys were doing comments like, patents on our side. Really? Yeah. And then I was like, oh. And then anti-trans people were, pro-trans people were doing stuff. And I was trying to delete all the negative stuff, but I was deleting the pro-trans people

first to then get, and it just, it got so ugly. So then I wrote a thing going, he's still my friend. I still love him. We disagree on trans rights violently. And that's just how it's going to be. I don't know why that is. And then it became the PC police got to patent. We just love.

And I'm like, this is not a fucking sporting event. They were literally talking in terms of pro wrestling. This is the thing about... Bobby Heenan got to Andre the Giant and brainwashed him. But this is the nerd thing. Is that now the ebb and flow of culture is being dictated by the guys who were

playing... It's a video game. Exactly. It's manifesting itself. Yeah. Because when you started to see them going out for the first time, if you look at CPAC, you're like, that's them? Right. And they're like, yeah. By the way, also, CPAC, my brother posted some footage.

Whenever they do CPAC, it's always a very tight shot from row three, so it looks packed. Yeah. But he found shots from the back of the room, and it's like three-fourths empty. Oh, really? It's just all this loudness and making it look crazy, and there's not a lot of people there. My big problem, and I've talked about this with the other fellows, is just that it's very, you know, despite these people who are our peers and who are like, you know, because look, I'm a real comic. I came up in the clubs like you did. We know all these guys right and they

were filthy to begin with so and i was pretty filthy well also for i think for us that for people that are outsiders of comedy not that i want to use the term outsiders but comedians have beefs all the time we fight all the fuck this isn't about beefs to me it's sort of like it's it's really about like you know either, either you allow the language to evolve. Right. And you engage in tolerance. Mm-hmm. Or you push back on these things.

And if you push back on tolerance, you are going to push back on small groups of people. Yes. And if you're going to push back on language, you're just being weird. And also, just to say like, hey, things have changed. That word isn't that acceptable. I'm never giving it up. Hang on. You're a writer.

You can think of a million other. By the way, how is that different from when I remember I had a really rough bit about Hot Pockets. And someone said, hey, have you seen Jim Gaffigan's bit about Hot Pockets? And I went and saw his. And I was like, oh, that's out of my fucking eye. He owned, like his is brilliant. Sure. It's gone.

Well, you're lucky you did that because if you hadn't, when you perform now, there'll be one guy going, the hot pocket, the hot pocket. But could you imagine if I doubled down on that? Sure. I just heard Chappelle did, it just did a joke that I've been doing for weeks about Will Smith and about the Chris Rock thing. Really? Yeah.

I was saying, because my take on it is different. It wasn't my take, which is still intact for however long that can last. Right. It was just the idea that there was really this sort of feeling like, is the country going to recover? And I'm like, it's not the towers. It's not Space Shuttle Challenger. A guy hit a clown.

Yeah. A rich guy hit another clown yeah a rich guy hit another rich guy yeah well that and he said he said my friends

hit each other and it's not it's not the challenger and I'm like alright well that's done I texted Chris Rock the next day

because I knew he was doing a show and I was like hey man what are you gonna open with and he would just like ha ha ha

like you know comedians I knew he'd be alright you've been attacked on stage. Yes. Yeah. But I guess the thing is what's upsetting is that I think that sometimes- But yeah, the doubling down is weird.

Yeah, and I think a lot of times they're not totally aware, not unlike your situation in your proximity to him, is how they're being used. Right. So at some point, you may want to be doing what you're being do, you want to do, but there's forces bigger than you that are going to co-opt your message. Right.

And at some point you have to think like, you know, you can't just say like, hey man, it's not my business. It kind of is your business. And also it's tempting

because sometimes the co-opting can be very, very profitable and you can get swept up in that. But it is puzzling when like, Chappelle's one of the smartest guys I've ever met. met he's and he was always from the age of 14 it's just weird that this is weird it's weird that the commitment to this one thing yeah and and like you know he's you know he's done brilliant bits i like the guy but it's weird to me i don't know if it's religious i don't

know i've done bits coming up you can see hear them on my albums. First time I used the R word. There's an album where I used the N word. I'm using it to make fun of racism, but wealthy white guy using ironic racism does not age well. No. And instead of me going, no, it's fine. I'm just like, hey, I fucked up. Didn't know, but I learned better. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I switch things

and I still got tons of shit. I did that teenage girls bit on Letterman. Yes! switch things and I still got tons of shit. I did that teenage girls bit on Letterman. Yes! But you know what? It's still a good joke. It really is. Some guy said,

you might want to take that off your website. I'm like, I can't take it off anything. Yeah, exactly. I did it on Letterman, but like when I really look- No, I've had people like,

am I going to go back and edit? I can't edit my albums. It's out there. Well, when I look at the mathematics of the joke, I think it still holds. Yeah. And I don't think it implies

anything about me. It's just an idea that is genuine. But yeah, I've had the same thing. And I've had people tell me things about stuff. That have made me change. Absolutely. Yeah. Where I'm just sort of like, that's okay.

I thought using the R word forever. Me too. And a woman in my IG messages really, really laid it out for me in a way that i'm like she's right i'm absolutely fucking wrong well what got to me was a woman said you know like i'm the parent yeah that's what i yeah she's like i'm there and she went through it day to day what it's like and i'm like fuck i was and again there's nothing more in my mind there's nothing more confidence than owning your mistakes, owning your influences. I remember someone tried to, someone, I was arguing with some troll on Twitter, this was years ago,

and they threw that, a clip of Patrice O'Neill talking to you on Open Anthony saying, you've, Mark, you've birthed a lot of babies, like influence, and Patton is one of yours. He's like, see? I'm like, no shit shit I was influenced by him. Are you out of your, how the fuck do you, do you think I'm going to deny that? Of course. And by the way, thank God I had him as an, could you imagine if I had some shitty comedian as an influence?

I lucked out having him as an influence. The fuck are you talking about? Like, I don't know why that's an own, these people. It's just sad. I can't take it. And you're like all over Twitter. I can't do it anymore. I won't do why that's an own, these people. It's just sad. I can't take it. And you're like all over Twitter. I can't do it anymore. I won't do it anymore.

Really? No, I mean, I promote my shit. I'll do some weird shit occasionally. But I'm not going to. I can't because I can't detach. Yeah, but then you do these live streams on Instagram. I know, for hours. For hours you're on there, like having people comment.

Yeah, you know what I've gotten? I've created this amazing audience of aggravated middle-aged women. Very sensitive, creative, but angry middle-aged women. And they're like half the audience, and the other half is people they bring who don't know me. Yeah. So it's a woman going like, oh, he's like this sometimes. And someone else going like, so this is the guy, huh? That's my idea.

It's okay. By the way, that's a great title for a special, he's like this sometimes. Or he does that. Mark Maron, he does that. He does that. Yeah, yeah. I don't know what I'm going to call it. Good talking to you, buddy.

Buddy, Sam, this was awesome. Thank you. It was fun. Yeah. And thank you for everything that you've been kind of fighting with on these past episodes and on the podcast. I appreciate it. It's been pretty amazing.

Thanks for that. It's really good to see somebody smart wrestling with it rather than somebody reactionary or just trying to do the easy take on it. So thank you. Yeah. Thank you. And sometimes, look, I get pushed back and I snap. You know, like it's a wrestle.

It's not usually about, it's usually more personal. No, no. Yeah. Yeah. it's like it's a wrestle it's not usually but it's usually more personal no no yeah i got an email from someone a woman telling me that i'm i'm i'm talking too nicely but i'm i'm saying i'm great too much she was concerned that i was drifting into narcissism drifting into narcissism i've built an island i don't know if you've seen where i i i live on narcissism island sweetie ss marin i'm not drifting towards anything i'm on the i'm on the me me me atoll that's where i live i don't know that like i come from pathological narcissists but like

there's difference between being narcissistic and actually being a narcissist because true narcissism is frightening yes and i come from it and i know people who are it and like you know i have enough self-awareness to know that i just got touch i'm just a hint of narcissism it's all about me. 80% of the time. Wow. Well, that was nice, right? Patton, me, the new movie that he's in.

I love my dad is not playing in theaters and can watch it at home on demand starting tomorrow, August 12th, all the digital platforms and whatnot. Can you hang out a minute, please? Please hang out. Please hang. Excuse me. Please hang. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence.

Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talked to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly.

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We were driving from Indiana to Kentucky and we had an adventure trying to find late night food. And you can hear about it from us. By the way, on my Instagram, I posted a picture of this burger in my highlights under the marin tour highlight thing and um it's just it's it's it's so much more than we can describe one of the pieces of bacon was clear yeah and stayed with the burger he took the piece of cheese off and three little pieces of bacon stayed on the cheese none of it looked great but there was a perfectly clear. I don't know if anyone ever like salted a slug as a kid, like put salt on a slug and turned it clear. This was that, but bacon.

Yeah. If you put salt on a slug, you turn it clear. I did it once. I felt really bad. Well, of course. Oh, that's terrible. Of course. Can't walk around being clear.

Anyway. Subscribe by clicking the link in the episode description on whatever app you're using right now. Or go to WTFpod.com and click on WTF Plus. I'm in Lincoln, Nebraska at the Rococo Theater on August 18th. Des Moines, Iowa at the Hoyt Sherman Place on August 19th. And Iowa City, Iowa at the Englert Theater on August 20th. I'm in Tucson, Arizona at the Rialto Theatre on September 16th. Phoenix, Arizona at Stand Up Live on September 17th. Boulder, Colorado at the Boulder Theatre on

September 22nd. Fort Collins, Colorado at the Lincoln Center on September 23rd. That link is hot now. And Toronto, Ontario at the Queen Elizabeth Theatre on September 30th and October 1st. London, England and Dublin, Ireland. I'll be coming to you in October. Go to WTFpod.com slash tour for all dates and ticket info. And you can do it. You can get sober. Listen to me.

Listen to me. You can. Here we go to me. Listen to me. You can. Here we go. Here's some guitar. Thank you. Thank you. © transcript Emily Beynon Thank you. boomer lives monkey and lafonda cat angels everywhere