WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1362 - Whitney Cummings

Episode Date: September 1, 2022

Whitney Cummings left the garage twelve years ago after a conversation with Marc and couldn’t shake something he said to her. It bothered her for years until she finally decided to own it and turn it into the name of her new standup special. Whitney and Marc hash out what happened during that initial WTF episode and get into all the things that have transpired since, including where they’re both at with their lives and comedy today. They also talk about horses, codependency, crying and TikTok.  Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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To show your true heart is to risk your life. When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive. FX's Shogun, a new original series streaming February 27th, exclusively on Disney+. 18-plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. Lock the gates! all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fuck adelics what's happening i'm mark maron this is my podcast obviously i am broadcasting from somewhere other than my garage studio in Los Angeles. I'm out in the world.

I'm out in the Canadian world. I'm in Canada having a vacation. Is that okay? I don't take many vacations. I travel a lot, but I don't do the vacating much. So, right, is that a word? Vacationing, I think. Vacating, that would mean something different.

That would mean I'm leaving. It doesn't matter. I don't need to look anything up. Vac vacationing is the word I'm looking for so I'm uh I'm away for a bit but I I did want to uh continue to do my podcast while I'm away as I am want to do is that how you say that as I am want to do as as as I do first of all before I even talk about who the guest is it was exactly 13 years ago today we released the very first episode of WTF that was September 1st 2009 is that crazy is that crazy I mean do you remember I barely remember but I kind of remember the panic. I remember the panic of probably the first eight years of doing this show, this constant fucking panic of making sure that we honored our responsibility and our promise we made to ourselves to put up a new show every Monday

and every Thursday, no matter what, since September 1st, 2009. And there have been some crazy times. I mean, the show has evolved. Initially, there was like nine podcasts in the world that people listened to. They were around. I'm not saying that we invented it, we invented it. And I and I won't say that. I don't I think we we kind of helped to define what the new world of podcasting is, the business and whatnot. But at the beginning, we were doing it in the middle of the night, not even the middle of the night, but after hours at a radio studio. And it evolved into what it is now. But from the very beginning, it was always, we got to do the two

shows. And there's been different varieties of panic. And then there was also the panic about social media platforms, getting it out there. How does it all work? It was the fascinating thing about the whole thing, especially given where podcasting is currently, is what it was like at the beginning and what it all became. It's just, it's kind of unreal to me to think that we started by stealing time in a radio studio with random segments, some guests. It evolved more when I moved back to LA and I put it in the garage. The garage was not set up as a studio. It was full of just junk that didn't fit in my house. And then it became more of an interview show with a third act that was usually some sort of fake guest act, a comedy piece. And then as it evolved into an interview show and things built up around it, that we saw the whole business

kind of evolve and grow around us. We were at the ground level with a lot of different fights that we had to fight, patent troll fights, figuring out how to get advertising and watching that business grow alongside, the networks growing alongside. And everyone kind of rose at the same time, those of us who stayed in it. And we saw it literally become a business. I mean, at the beginning, we had two advertisers. We had maybe three. We had Adam and Eve, which was basically sex toys. We had Audible, which was, you know, Audible.

And then we had Just Coffee, which was something we carried over from a streaming video show. We did Break Room Live back in the day when people couldn't even stream it. We did streaming video before anyone was really able to stream. I actually did an internet podcast type of show before anybody was able to do it. This is not a test I did for Microsoft on Broadway Videos Dime. Geez, I don't even remember what year it was, but I think it was a live sort of audio show with visual components that would happen simultaneously. This is before any kind of video technology. And it turned out, you know, we put a lot of work into it. A lot of big guests were part of it.

Phil Hartman, I interviewed on that. Conan, it was because of the Broadway video poll. A lot of guest segments. And I don't think anybody was able to listen to that that wasn't in the Microsoft building or on the Microsoft campus. But moving from where it came from, which was I remember when we first started doing this, in order to make it a job, we offered tiers of membership, like donations, like NPR kind of thing. And you'd get schwag if you gave a certain amount of money a monthly donation thing that would kind of recur and I just remember my entire house being filled with envelopes

some with t-shirts some with stickers some with postcards you know just sorting that stuff out with just these these excel spreadsheets of all of the subscribers and and oh my god running a bit i it was uh it was quite a time and here we are as a podcast and as a world still going actually stronger than ever uh 13 years later so uh i guess i i can say happy birthday wtf can i say happy birthday? Sure, I can. And Whitney Cummings is on the show today, and she was actually on back in 2010 on episode 106. This was the only time we really had a full hour-long conversation, although we see each other like all the time. She was on my IFC show, Marin, and we work at the comedy store a lot, and we text each other occasionally. She's got a new special out on Netflix called Whitney Cummings Jokes, but she was one of the original, right, in the first,

the second hundred guests. 2010, isn't that crazy? A little other business here. Back in 2019, we had a comic named Justin McKinney on the show. You can go back and listen to that episode now that it's out from behind the paywall, episode 1041. And you can hear his story about joining the police force and giving it up for comedy. He's got a new special that's out today.

It's called Justin McKinney on the Bright Side, and you can watch it on YouTube. If you haven't heard his episode, give it a listen and then go check out his special. episode, give it a listen, and then go check out his special. I've gotten a little reaction, and I want to talk about how my classification of boomers, I'm willing to admit overgeneralization, because I realized something the other day, that when I talk about baby boomers, and me being one of the last ones out of the gate, and I judge them and their selfishness or their ego or I say things that you know the this this so much of the cultural chaos we're going through is at the hands of uh you know the dying of uh of boomer egos I'm usually talking about you know men uh of a and I'm usually talking about them in the arts or in the political game.

I do make a generalization, but I realized it was kind of broad, and I'm willing to make that exception because I feel like it was too broad. Because when I really think about people who are still active politically and in some ways doing the right thing on a progressive level and in an activism level and also in nonprofits and in helping people, a lot of times it is still that generation of original activists and people who were involved in the first wave of pushing back in the 60s. Sadly, they are a lot of the people that are still kind of doing the work of trying to fight the good fight.

I mean, a lot of us pay lip service to it. A lot of us may tweet a few things and speak up here and there. But I think a lot of the boots on the ground are still some pretty old boots of a generation of original activists that I apologize for lumping in if it did seem that way in my generalization of that generation. if it did seem that way in my generalization of that generation, I think that was, I think that was somebody brought that to my attention. I think it's correct. I think that usually what I'm talking about, it seems, are a handful of dudes that seem to have a lot of sort of cultural capital that, you know, are from uh uh aggravated ego dimming i'm sorry i just sort of like uh people want to they everyone wants to go down shooting in this

country and these guys who are 70 80 years old look everyone should be able to uh to have a good time but uh i just sometimes get the sense that they're bringing the whole fucking world down with them and this is it's a broader conversation and i simplified it by by hanging it on a generation without giving credit to the fights that were fought by that generation by people who fight the fight as opposed to people that are completely self-involved give zero zero fucks, are myopic, and only care about themselves and what they have to say, and also making exceptions for the worst of things,

culturally and politically. Okay? How's that? Is that a mea culpa? What did I just do? I don't even know what I just did. I feel like it made sense, though. Did it make sense?

All right, so here we go. Um, Whitney Cummings is, uh, I'll, I'll be honest with you. You know, we go way back. I, we had, I remember the, I think we might've talked about it on the original episode a decade ago or whenever that was 2000 and what'd I say? 10. So more than that, 12 years ago, many years ago ago I think after the demise of my second marriage I kind of I had a crush on Whitney and we were on the road together working and yeah I mean I tried to uh to see if it was reciprocated it was not but since then we've been I wouldn't say we're I you know it's a weird thing about comedians that there are certain comics that i came up with not in the same way that uh it's a it's similar to to jews

let me explain there is some sort of bond we all have uh comedians you know there's many of us but there's certain core people that we've i guess if you spend a decade or more working around people, you don't have to spend a lot of free time with them or necessarily see yourself as having a friendship in the standard way. But just the fact that we've worked together and you respect people's work, that there is definitely a bond in the community. And I've always loved Whitney and I've always been impressed with her work ethic and her energy and her humor. And I gotta be honest with you, lately, she's just raw and just fucking all in.

And it's kind of great to watch and I was happy to talk to her. Her new special, Whitney Cummings Jokes, is now streaming on Netflix. And yeah, so this is me talking to Whitney Cummings. Be honest. When was the last time you thought about your current business insurance policy? If your existing business insurance policy is renewing on autopilot each year without checking out Zensurance, you're probably spending more than you need. That's why you need to switch to low-cost coverage

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exclusively on Disney+. 18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. Yeah, I don't know. I, you know, I can't, I don't know. I can't. I don't know. We don't have kids, and it's better off. Together, we certainly don't.

No. I don't have any anywhere. You can't hide a kid. You don't have one. But don't you feel good about it? I don't have a kid. Do you have a llama or something? I don't have a llama. But I am in close proximity to...

What's the plural of llama? I think llama. To llamas very frequently. I do want to say really quick... You're close proximity to llamas? What's that? You're in close proximity to llamas? Yeah, yeah.

I do. I have rescue horses and there's llamas at my ranch where the horses are. Oh, you have a ranch? It's not my ranch. It's where my horses are though. You rescue horses? Mm-hmm. You go out into the wild?

Yep. And find wild horses? Not wild horses. They're getaway horses. Those don't need to be rescued. Oh, saddled horses? Abused horses. Abused show horses, race horses, dressage show horses, horses that are abused.

Do you find them new homes? Yes, I'll rehabilitate them and find them new homes. Or put them in an equine therapy program, and they'll be used for kids and assault survivors. It seems like a tough sell. I mean, you can barely get rid of dogs at a shelter and you're like, do you need a horse? Well, horses can provide transportation. They can actually get you somewhere. Back in time.

Yeah, they're way more useful. I do want to just close this one hatch. I'm sorry. Okay, sorry. In between you being interesting. Yeah, or just a circle. I like it. I like it. time yeah they're way more they're way more useful i do want to just close this one okay sorry in between you being interesting and why yeah like or just i like it i like it so i get all my beverages and i was somewhere and i just see it as taking care of myself yes self-care making sure that i'm able to show up for you and not sort of have a cotton mouth dry mouth or my add kick in or be

hungry and distracted and um look at you you're already exhausted by me. No, I'm not. I'm excited. And someone went, oh, so you're neurodivergent. Neurodivergent. And I was like, what? And she was like, well, this isn't, oh, you're not autistic? This is an autism thing, like needing many beverages. And I was just like, oh, sure.

Yeah, sure. Yes, kind of. So the beverages are always a big thing. No, I mean, it's good to travel with things to put in your mouth. It's true. I mean, that's what it is. It's not neurodivergent. You just want options and you want to be able to have these things.

I just think it's sometimes hard to stay, like, concentrated in podcasts. And I like to just make sure I'm not distracted. When was the last time I talked to you? On this show was maybe... 2000 and... Maybe 11 years ago maybe 11 years ago 11 years ago yeah it was deeply so it was deeply traumatized yeah you said you had to work something out do you have some you know settle some sort of score no no it was more I think the first time I

was on here it was before I had really you know I had just sold some tv shows right and uh it was just such a I just remember leaving just feeling like oh like I feel like I had dis sold some TV shows. And it was just such a, I just remember leaving and just feeling like, ugh, like I feel like I had disassociated. I feel like I didn't know you that well and didn't deliver on any level. So you were hard on yourself about that? Well, you said something to me that just like stuck with me. Yeah, what is that? And it's in the back of my mind all the time.

You'll both love and hate how much real estate you take up in my brain. You said to me, you're like, so you do like jokes. Right. Yeah. It took me forever to realize how like, like, like, like, I didn't realize it was an insult till like half an hour later. Was it an insult? In the interview. I didn't realize it was an insult until like half an hour later in the interview. I don't know if it was an insult. Because I was like, yeah, I do jokes and here's how I do them.

And then I was like, oh, wait. And the name of my new special is Jokes. And that's my fault? That's not your fault? This is like your payback? No, it was just my way of just going like, you know what? I do write jokes. I do do jokes.

And maybe that's okay. This is what I do. And I've spent so much time having Maren in my head. But what's the alternative to that? I don't know why. I do my version of whatever the fuck. Totally. But I just, whatever.

Just both of us, where we were. I diminished you somehow. No, not even. I boxed you in. You're just a little joke machine. I think we all hurt people's feelings by accident all the time. And we get our feelings hurt when people aren't intending to. It was just, do you ever look back at moments in your life that had such a giant impact on you?

And the person that did it probably has no fucking clue. Oh, yeah. All the time. It was just that. Because I remember at first grappling with it and being like, be more conversational. Be one of those storytellers that takes viewers on a journey. All that was in there. Yeah, I think you unpacked it properly.

And then later I was like, I do do jokes, and I'm fucking proud of that. As people are just like comedians or virtue signaling and lecturing and giving TED Talks, and I'm glad I just write jokes. But I think we all do jokes if you're a professional comedian. I think that whatever anybody says about storytelling or this and that that ultimately if you're trying to get laughs and you do it there's there how you

do jokes and i'm also just like i'm at the i am such an unapologetic try hard like i don't know what virtue signaling means totally it just means like um people that are i think it happened a lot during the pandemic when comedians were just like looking for ways to get attention and clout or fill the void or whatever it was, because they couldn't get on stage. And it was a lot of just like, whether it was, you know, and I'm not the person to weigh in on this. I think a lot of people would say like that black square for Black Lives Matter was virtue signaling. Just the idea. I mean, I know, I kind of know what it is, but I don't know how, like, because I. Performative activism? Is that a better phrase?

But there is no other way to do it, is there now? But comedians started doing things they would make fun of other people doing. I guess. Some of them. I don't know. You never know who anybody is until you do. And I'm generalizing. But when you get on stage and you're like, I'm probably going to get canceled, do you

really think you're going to get canceled? I mean, isn't that sort of, at this point, kind of a hack line? This idea that like, oh, well, I'm going to take a risk here. Have you done 30 minutes of trans jokes yet? No, but I talk pretty frankly about, you know, fascism and gay. I think you are uncancellable. I think for me. That's so not true. That's so not true. Unless you committed a crime.

Right. Or somebody twists something a certain way. I understand the idea of it. But I mean, it doesn't seem like your trans jokes are on the wrong side of things. Who's going to cancel you? No, they're not at all. But I take umbrage at that because I don't think you realize how much people want me to fail. Who's that?

I don't think you, whether you know or don't know, I don't think you realize how much people want me to fail. Who's that? I don't think you, whether you know or don't know, I don't think you realize how many people. Because you're a woman? I don't even think it's that. Because you're Whitney? I think I bring up a lot of emotion in people. And I think I trigger people deeply. And I think I'm polarizing. And I think I.

Based on what what what's happened this I just think that people have strong reactions to me I think people have strong reactions to all female comedians I think it brings up a lot I think that's true you love them or you hate them you know but what's happened to make you aware of this I think just um like have people come up to you

with like you know have you seen your tweets to me Mark those are just funny I know but i'm just saying you like i get it i get it pretty rough and i've never really talked about it i don't it doesn't affect me on a daily basis yeah but i have found there are certain things that if i say them up top they afford me a little bit more later i see yeah and i think that um i'm someone that people really want to a lot of people want to see fail huh and um i think that I'm someone that people really want to see fail. And I think that people have tried in all kinds of ways or go like, you were friends with this person or you knew about this thing.

Oh, a Dillian shit? Well, just a lot. I mean, tons of things. Who are those people? What side do they come on? Are they just people who are resentful or do you find they have a position aside or it's start i mean it's always been the case with me i mean i remember even when i would come to the comedy store just in the very beginning but you know just i was just scared and anxious and trying

to be a good comedian and in the beginning no one is is my guess you know whether i was or not and it's very confusing because it's like you suck but also you're so successful like which is it you know so i think that people if i'm not good enough, people are mad about it. If I'm too good, people are mad about it. If I'm successful, people are mad about it. But aren't you, let me ask you a question. What? Not everyone, but.

And my tweets to you, I know sometimes they're a little, they're meant to be funny. And I'm joking, but I'm saying we're friends. Right, right. But I'm saying the amount of. When I see a picture of you hugging Santino and I tweet monsters. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm totally being facetious with you. Yeah you and I love you and I wouldn't be here if I didn't. I've done some kind of mean ones. I know, but we have a

thing. But let me ask you this, because you're saying people, people, people they think this, they think that. But I mean, aren't you making a lot of that up in the same way that we get our feelings hurt by projecting personalities onto things. I mean, I know that people tweet at you and women comics definitely have it much worse, but I don't think there's a room full of people at any given point in time wanting you to fail. I think people like you and you're doing good comedy.

I agree. Thank you. But I'm just addressing the one thing you said of, do you really think you're going to get canceled? Well, I mean, being canceled is you know assuming that people want you to fail okay so i am just telling you why i do that sometimes in the beginning right oh yeah to get yes and get people loose you uniquely hear it because i'm usually following you at the comedy store going before you yeah yeah so i don't that on the road. I don't ever say that.

But if you're going to be like, that's kind of a hack line. I have to say why I fucking do it. And that's why. You don't have to agree. But it's, yeah, I mean, it's... The only reason I say that is out of love for you. Because I think that on some level,

these people that are sort of like, no, I'm anti-woke and that's why I don't get work. I'm like, is that why? I don't think maybe that's true. I don't buy, that is total bullshit. Trust me, i am totally on your side none of that is real that whole we can't say anything anymore that's not true kind of say stuff you can say literally whatever you want you just can't be unfunny it just might be consequences literally if i say don't cancel me that's probably why i'm going this might not be a funny joke that's why you should be canceling people and it like, it's always coming from the people that like, you never said tranny before.

Why do you need to say it so badly now? So I think it's more, but comedians, I also think we shouldn't be surprised by this is we're professional fucking babies. I mean, comedians complain about sugar cookies for 40 minutes. You know what I mean? Really? Who's doing that? Well, that would be Gary Goldman's sugar.

Remember? He used to do the black and white cookies, the sugar cookies. Oh, did he? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, like, it's like, we'll complain about anything. Sure, yeah. You know, Seinfeld, we'll complain about raisins for 40 minutes. Like, we, this is what we do. Genius.

We get wildly offended by the tiniest modicum of judgment or criticism. All I'm dealing with on any given set is sort of like, am I going to open my heart and sort of be a warm entertainer or I'm going to make these people pay? I love watching you right now, Mark. You are in a fucking zone. You too. Oh, thanks. Really?

Really. I'll watch you right when you take the stage. I'm like, wow, she's all in. There's no filter anymore but also so are you just in a different way no sure no i think so yeah i think we're in our in our groove imagine if i went up there and looked at a notebook and was like i'm half here i mean how annoying would that be yeah the only thing more annoying than a comedian who's all in and committing really hard and we roll our eyes like, oh, here they are doing their job.

Well, it's just interesting that there are people that really, I mean, I find that I get, like, especially at the comedy store because it's like a trauma factory for me from way back. So, but sometimes I get up there and it really fucks with my head. You know, it depending on the, like sometimes the main room, you're like, how is this not a good room now? Why is this audience like this?

I don't even, that room is such a mind fuck. I don't even know why we do it. Because it's like, it's sort of interesting, you know, but then, you know, there's a, I don't know. It's the only room I feel insecure in to this day. And maybe it's because you're in the fucking back going, oh, she can do this. Not me.

I'm the guy in the back judging you? No, no. Do you know how much of a nightmare it is to work on new stuff knowing like Mark Maron's pacing behind you, behind the curtain? You think that's a fucking blast? It's all I'm thinking. I'm like, you heard this joke last night. I shouldn't do this joke. I'm not the one.

I like you. I know, but you have to. I'm trying to make a point that you're making things up. I understand your argument, but I'm here to clear it up for you. I'm not back there pacing, thinking about you. I'm just sort of like, oh, fuck. Now I got to- Oh, I know you're not thinking about me, but I think that it's fascinating that still-

I'm on Team Whitney right now. And I never really wasn't. So i'm not the guy i believe that no i believe that which is part of the reason i can would talk to you like this and you know drive three and a half hours uh to wherever we are and bring a tent i did bring three bags with me i don't know what i was in for um but no i i think that it's a testament to how much i love you and how much I respect you. And I want you to think I'm funny. I want you to be proud of me.

But I know that if you don't, that's also okay. I am. It's taken me 10 years to realize I'm not writing jokes just for you. It's really liberating. Would Maren like this? Yeah, you do jokes. Although sometimes things happen to me. Do you have any comedians in your head where something happens

or you think of a joke and you're like, oh, this should be for like Dana Gold. Sure. I had a raccoon. Yeah. Oh, what happened with that? Family.

I've got a couple of things that I got to ask you about. Oh God. We haven't really talked at depth in like 13 years. A lot has happened. I'm glad you agree with that. What?

Because I was driving over here. I was like, him and I, we definitely haven't had a conversation in like 12 years. It wasn't just a, hey, hey, how's the room? I know. Sometimes you spin out in the green room. You'll spin out a little bit. Yeah. You'll go.

You'll kind of go on a thing. Am I a person you see in the green room and you're like, oh, God. No. This is going to be a spiral. Because I feel person you see in the green room and you're like, oh God. No. This is going to be a spiral because I feel like everyone's complaint is I keep to myself. You're the only person with that complaint. I don't have a complaint.

I don't know what you're hearing. What the fuck is wrong with your ears and your fucking brain? You can't even identify tones properly. Sometimes you're lit up and if there's a topic at hand, you will talk in the green room. I've never known

you to be like why isn't whitney talking that's never been anything i've heard anybody say i don't know what where you get this reputation of being the quiet lady that's something you made up no i think a lot of people well you wouldn't know because people act different around you. You don't know anyone's personality. I don't. When Marc Maron's around, everyone's Marc Maron's here. I don't think that's true.

What are you talking about? I'm just an old man wandering around. Don't do this. What? I do think it's important that we're all in echelons where you have to recognize your impact on people. Because I find sometimes- I don't. I don't recognize it.

But yeah, go ahead. You find what? You have some... You know what? You actually might not. You actually might be... I don't Google my name. But do you not have a concept

that people are trying to impress you or... Sometimes. Sometimes I'm like, what do they want? Your respect and love. I agree it's dumb. They're never going to get it. No, that's not true.

When I see someone trying to impress you, I'm like, ah, that is so 2004. How's that happened? But I am much more open now. I'm not running around trying to intimidate people. No. I don't even understand how people get that. I don't do that with you.

You understand me. You see me. You've known me a long time. We've been through things together despite not knowing each other that well but we've been around each other for you know a long time and you know we were you know we were in uh la jolla together do you feel like maybe you i will we can play beat by beat go through that if you'd like but um there's nothing to go through but you are it was I was easily deterred but do you think that you're equals to like I think that maybe you're resistant to being at the top of the food chain I'm not at the top of the food chain what's the food chain

what is winning okay I think winning is um is generally when you go to bed at night, being proud of your behavior that day. Behavior or work? What's the difference? There's a big difference. Your behavior at work. Well, no. I mean, my brain can do a lot of things over the course of a day, which is like I've noticed before. of things over the course of a day which is like i've noticed before it's like you know when i get to the comedy store i've been through several days in my day and several different you know

like i've gone down and up i mean you always show up like the the guy from no country for old men with like the big you're about to just shoot people with a cattle yeah gun oh yeah that's interesting yeah i'm that guy. Sometimes I do feel like that, the audience. What's happening? There's so much, yeah. In my mind. But I don't always know.

Like, I do know. I don't take it in that much. I see what effect I have on my audience by feedback and emails and stuff. But in terms of comedy, I do understand that I've facilitated something and was at the beginning of something that a lot of comics respect and i think my comedy is pretty well respected but i still compare myself i still i still compare and despair and i don't think good comic does but i don't even want what people have but that doesn't mean you can't get better by comparing if you're at the i don't know if i'm getting better i just like i just like feed on a resentment and I judge and I,

you know, I wonder like, why, why, why don't that many people want to see me? And then I'm like, well,

why would they? Well, there's something so cool about people knowing you so well that I'm excited to get to this point and I know talking about TV is so boring and gross,

but I used to always say like, you know, the best, the funniest jokes on any sitcom or TV. Like I loved Family Ties growing up. Yeah, sure. Because it's like you knew the character so well. Someone could just say something to Michael J. Fox's character, Alex B. Keaton, and everyone would laugh. Yeah. Because they just knew him so well that they knew this was going to be funny.

It's like people know you so well. Like the other night when you went, I watched Euphoria and, sorry, I don't want to botch your joke, but you're like, I was like, should I be watching this? It was so funny because we all know you so well. We know you're a good person. We know what you've been through. If I

had said that, it wouldn't have been that. I think there's certain jokes, for lack of a better word, you can only do at this stage of your career because people know you so well. I think that that's right but that's what you work for right totally so i think you're just in this fucking surfing this wave that is so fun to watch yeah but and i'm and i appreciate it and i know i'm in that and i'm happy about it most nights but that doesn't mean i don't think that other comics are judging me you think you have comics you think are judging you whoever's judging you whoever wants you to. I literally like I think there are some big comics that in the problem is, is like, like, I fucking I don't respect them either.

And I know that they're sort of like they think what I do is something different than what they do. And I'm just a fucking comic, man. I mean, I do funny shit. But like when I see established people that just have joke churning personalities and make billions of dollars yeah I'm like go fuck yourself I mean where's the risk in that but I think it my guess is they look at you and go uh he's so fucking respected I want that really yeah did you listen to that conversation I had Jerry Seinfeld I didn't is that okay yeah of course was that recent well It was during the pandemic.

It was okay. Okay. But I just have always thought that like, you know, there's an established crew of comics, both young and old, that operate at this level where I'm still this weird sort of like, you know, I'm still this guy fighting with himself in a nightclub. Yeah, yeah. And these guys are sort of like doing, you know, whatever the hell they're doing to make money.

And I just don't think of that. I don't think of that shit. You seem way happier to me. I am happier. So wait, so, okay. If you had that kind of money, you'd have fucking Lyme disease. I just talked to the Hamptons. I have money.

You get Lyme disease. You get Lyme disease. You get Lyme. They have killer bugs. You could never have that much money. You would hate it. Let me just close that hatch or whatever the hell you said. If I had that kind of money, I still wouldn't go to the fucking Hamptons, all right? You could never have that much money. You would hate it. Let me just close that hatch or whatever the hell you said. I, uh,

if I had that kind of money, I still wouldn't go to the fucking Hamptons. All right. It's fucking awful. I have plenty of money in now and I don't do anything with it. Like a big day for me is when I get a new wooden spoon. So, you know,

I don't know what to do with money. You really don't. No, but you're going to move to Canada. That's going to be hopefully, um, I don't know. It's more of a retirement fantasy for when we really can't say anything here.

Do you feel like now that you're at this place where... What? I don't know. What's happening? I'm just saying now that you've on some level mastered, I don't know if I'm allowed to use that word in terms of addictive impulses, like the whack-a-mole of like okay it's alcohol yeah then it's you know maybe it's online shopping maybe it's gambling maybe it's eating i don't have gambling i don't have online shopping that much sometimes gambling addictions manifest other ways like you know sometimes it's you know uh the sex addiction

stuff i got away with this can i get away with this shoplifting is kind of it's the same part of the brain is no i get it i get it like have it. I don't have the porn thing. But is adrenaline one for you? Because that's a big one for me. I don't know. Like, I exercise a lot now. And the eating thing is always hard to manage. And I think I don't have that much of a compulsive sex thing. I think I've always, throughout my life, being a young Jewish boy.

Worrying. Well, no. There's just like, you know life, being a young Jewish boy. Worrying? Well, no. There's just like, you know, masturbating is like a meal. You know, it's just something you do like every day if you can. Yeah, knock it out. It's healthy. Okay, but meals were doing more than one a day, right? Yes.

Because that was sort of like. You know how like meals, you know how you have like one a day? Yeah. No, no, no. No, that's not a thing. No, I eat okay. Everything's okay. My addictions are sort of thing. You know how like meals, you know how you have like one a day? No, no, no. No, that's not a thing. No, I eat okay. Everything's okay. My addictions are sort of okay.

I find myself a little squirmy in my body though lately and I can't figure it out. I think it's just age. But what, I mean, but why did we get here? Because I was just curious. I think that like for me,

I find myself when I don't have predictable chaos, I will sort of fashion some for myself just to get that hit of adrenaline and adrenaline turns into dopamine so I find myself if I'm like really do you exercise in a pretty yes and if I'm in an emotionally kind of sober place and I'm feeling my board or I'm feeling

it's like if I need to be somewhere at four and it takes 30 minutes I'll leave it 3 40 yeah I wake up anxious about like I make that stuff in my head everything like i have to tell myself during the day it's sort of like dude you can take your time you have nothing to fucking do i'm like no but i don't yeah i don't those tools worked really well probably at some point in your life they're getting there they're getting there everything's getting there you know yeah and then but do you have like i do really well with routine i've started scheduling things that really helps me yeah so that So that I'm not, my main thing I'm realizing is decision fatigue and the shame that comes with

making the wrong decision at the buzzer. So like I wake up and I'm like, Oh, where are these jeans and this shirt? And then I leave it. I'm like, that's fucking wrong. Jeans,

these jeans. Why am I wearing these jeans today? These are the dumb jeans, the camel toe jeans. I can't really. And then I'm like, how did I just, so,

and then I'm going to beat myself in my day. So I have started, this is so insane, but, um, on my, no, it's not insane. I'm not going to pathologize it. It works for me. It's on Sundays. I'll take two hours.

I'll make all my decisions for the week that I can make on Sunday. You're telling me you lay out your outfits on Sunday? I hang them on a fucking thing. I have a vintage bar from Etsy with two bears on either side. It has everything for the week, just so I'm minimizing, because for me to make a decision is too, it takes a lot of bandwidth. It takes up for the week just so I'm minimizing because for me to make a decision is too, it takes a lot of bandwidth. It takes up a lot of like energy dollars.

I get that. I mean, I deal with something similar to that. Like do you use a lot of energy making small decisions? Well, it's just sort of,

I have trained myself to do things. Like the part of my brain that's like, you know, just do it wins more now. Like with exercise and everything else. If I wake up like, you know, just do it wins more now, like with exercise and everything else.

If I wake up like I don't want to fucking like all of a sudden I'm dressed and I'm going. So like the part of me that makes decisions is winning more now. And in terms of pants and stuff, I don't know. I kind of commit to, you know, a couple of pairs of pants and a shoe or two. You know, you were sure to. Yeah. You know, you were talking. I don't know. I it was kate berlant that you were talking to about performance artists yeah sometimes you know do you ever i'm sure you don't listen to a ton of other podcasts

but you know when someone's trying to think of something what's that person's name and i'll be like yelling it in the car marina brama marina abramovic yeah is someone that didn't come up that i am obsessed with yeah and i don't know if you consider her a performance artist or not. Who cares? But she has this manifesto. It's like an artist manifesto. It's probably a little too rigid and maybe a little bit self-indulgent. But it's like every artist should have like three white shirts, three pairs of white pants.

And I did it for like a year. And what did you get out of that? Why are you listening to her? The lady that sat in the museum looking at people. I liked that. It was fine. I like it all too. I liked that like but like why do we compare us like this is that's not the art that we're doing and what it's like you know einstein had two suits i mean who gives a fuck i like but

i also like when people do different things than me i think for the longest time it's like what the fuck is that it's like oh you do that so the world needs contrast so it's like oh you get to be like what if everyone was doing what you do that would be way worse do you think yeah i don't i don't think yeah but i've tried to design that so it that doesn't happen you know i try to talk about specifically personal things so no one can hack me but you do something so specific like when i came up with that angel factories joke i had to text four people to make sure they hadn't heard it. It's like Patton, Attell.

I don't know if I got to. Yeah, maybe I did. And Doug. I don't think Attell would do that one. Attell usually texts me with things like that, but I haven't heard from him in a while. Yeah. Sometimes I'll check in with people. But yeah, no, I mean, I think also the longer we've been around, the more we're like, have I heard this or did I just think of this?

And I think some things are just it's around, the more we're like, have I heard this or did I just think of this? And I think some things are just it's just it's just public domain, man. You know, once you start getting into public domain shit, how there's 10,000 fucking comics. I mean, it's who gets it wherever first. Do you ever feel like you're you go to the store, just go in to do stuff so people know you're doing that premise? Well, yeah. Yeah, I do. I do. But then like, but it's only a matter of time before someone else does it and then you have to do the whole sort of like no knows who they are well just also just like doing it and i'm like i'm doing so people like okay

maybe i'll you know right i gotta change my or like we know she's been working out sure where i'm always trying to play defense of people trying to just be shitty with me so i'm just like i'm gonna just go do it so these people being shitty with you again i love it you have no evidence i love this take it is actually so like that you're like you just think i'm like beloved is i love i don't think you're beloved i know you're challenging i think i should i mean i'm i and i know there's probably plenty of dudes who are like fuck her or this or that yeah but that's fine but i don't think the general audience you know comics are comics maybe i'm still in the old trauma of it or something i i still get that i mean i still get it too it's like you know what you know when uh when you know like sebastian goes on there and does his bit yeah you know the uh the the the whatever he's funny

but but i'm like, I know, it's not so much they're not going to like me, it's sort of like, I'm not what they're planning on. And I'm going to go out there. Isn't that what's so fun about it though?

Sure. Because if you're doing, obviously, our fans are amazing and I'm just not under the illusion that someone's my fan and no one else's. I'm like,

I still have to bring it when people come come to shows but i like doing stand-up for people that weren't there to see me because of course that's a real job yeah like i kind of like it where i'm like sebastian just murdered or marin just murdered like here we go yeah this is not what they sign up for but we can all get them most of the time we can follow each other. I think, you know, I'm not hard to follow really. But Sebastian can be. Yeah. Yeah. I mean. He's kind of the only one I think right now.

Well, I feel like when Joey Diaz was at the store, that was a, I would like stretch before I went on after Joey. It was always like, Jesus Christ, man. Like people would get up and just leave. But I think that, yeah, I just. I mean, the whole tone of the store has changed since then yeah i definitely just don't want to get the habit of like i kill and if my auntie if you guys don't get it mine does it's like no i like going out and getting them but like if when i'm thinking my jokes right now like it's always with me it's sort of like i'll just do this stuff that i know everyone can relate to my dad's dementia like it's

not i'm not going to go out there and sort of talk about anything cute like i don't have that go-to like this will always work a bit you just have a buoyancy about you right now that's really interesting yeah you too what is that about i don't know maybe we like had a brush with death uh over the pandemic and then we had i didn't have a brush with death i you know someone died but i didn't have a personal brush with death did you have a brush well i just mean with just like the in the beginning of the pandemic i think when we were like wiping down our groceries and it was just like you know well let's go back again so you know you have all the success and everything but like i just

remember during there were times where it might have been during the pandemic or right before where people were like is she okay yeah so it was never like fuck her or i hope she fails it's like what's going on with whitney i'm like i don't know tell me about it i know i dyed my hair blue and everyone like lost their minds but you dyed your hair blue you were sitting on hoses you were in mud it was uh-huh yeah i mean what did you fucking think was gonna happen a lot of people blew their brains out too i'm the fucking sick one a lot of people were doing zoom i didn't do one zoom comedy show me neither i would like i didn't do one outdoor one people that were doing zoom comedy shows were like what's wrong with whitney like what the fuck

is wrong with me i dyed my hair a bunch of different colors because all my friends were losing their jobs yeah as hair artists and i was like yeah why not have fucking blue purple pink hair yeah why the fuck not no i get it yeah you know but i think that um and then uh and then i got coveted really bad and i probably should not have been on social media when i was on covet and edibles and stuff so that probably had something to do with it and then also yeah it was also just like the pandemic and i was like when else are we going to be able to be this yeah this is the only opportunity i'm going to have to ever have a childhood and i went for it oh okay. And it was interesting to watch how upset people got about it.

I was like, is this because I'm just in my 30s and childless and I'm not supposed to have as much fun? I felt, I don't think, I didn't feel upset. You know, I think my innate was sort of like concern. But what was the concern that I'm, I was actually smiling for the first time? No, no, no. Like what was everyone's? The concern was just like, no, whenever whenever this happens because it's happened before in our business and it's how you reach a certain

age where you're sort of like is this a manic episode yeah is she you know what i mean like you know but you're i can understand what you're saying and i wasn't judging but it was concerned though i think it's interesting no i think it's interesting because i think i i i got a lot of that and i don't know you know it was interesting because a lot of people that were judgy about it I was like

you've always been fucking mean to me like you've always been shitty to me yeah I might be having a manic episode because everyone in this fucking business

has been so shitty to me it'd be weird if I didn't have one and it's then pronounced by the fact that now just because my hair is blue you've decided I like I'm on meth

like it just was like I think it was Adderall I took Adderall to write my book oh blue you've decided I like I'm on meth like it just was like I think it was Adderall I took Adderall to write my book oh yeah how was that I mean when's the book is it out

oh no this was years ago my book came out on the day of the Vegas shooting oh good good timing yeah I had a book come out in the same month as 9-11

that's great really I still haven't made the $30,000 back that they paid me up wait did you were you scheduled to do press and then you couldn't because of 9-11? I don't remember how.

Did we push it out? Or was the publisher's office in one of the buildings? No, no, no. But it was just around that time, I think. And it was the Jerusalem Syndrome. And books are terrible. Terrible. Surely.

I just don't. It takes everything you have. Usually, at the level we're at, you'll get a good, you know, offer and you'll take it. But I knew going into the last book I did, like, we're never making that money back. I think the best. Never making that money back. I think the best thing was transcribing your interviews. Those are good.

That's a good book. But even that should have been better. Wonderful. Sold better. Yeah. But that's so much better than sitting down and writing something because you're not overthinking it. Adderall during the book writing. Yeah, that was ages ago.

But I've been prescribed Adderall to sleep before because I have a little bit of mania. I have such bad ADD and mania. Is that what it is? So you have mania without the bottom? But here's what's so... No depression? I'll answer that in a second. But it annoys me when people insult you without even an understanding of what they're saying.

So someone's like, oh, she's so manic. She must be on Adderall. When you have ADD, Adderall actually calms you down. Yeah. It doesn't make you manic. Right. So you don't even know the science behind your insult, which also really fucking, you know. But also, hold on.

I think people were genuinely concerned. Everyone in LA is on Adderall. These are people that are microdosing LSD four times a day. I know, I know. I'm not one of those people. But I see, like, I have rose-colored glasses on. I'm not on the pulse like you. I'm not talking to the monsters.

I'm talking to you. But you're also hitting me at a time where it's the first time I've decided, like, I'm just going to start standing up for myself. Because I, like, take so much shit, and I'm happy to. I've decided, I'm just going to start standing up for myself because I take so much shit and I'm happy to. I really don't care. You're just talking about social media platforms like vague. Where's the shit coming from?

We haven't really isolated that, but I'm hearing a lot about the shit you're taking. Is it on Twitter? Stunned. Because I don't think you're gaslighting me. There's a pretty... I think that since I've publicly failed a little bit, people are like, oh, she's had, she's been humbled. Like, we don't have.

But where do you see this? On social media? Or like, you know, like I'm. People also like love telling me. They do? They'll tell you to your face? People are like, hey, they're just jealous. Like, hey, don't worry about them.

Be like, can I tell you something? Every comedian that's successful, other comedians hate them. It's not, it's like, this is just. Yeah. And you're like, what? Like, people love telling me that too. People will be like, hey, I just want you to know, like, I defend you. Yeah.

I'm like, cool. Like, so I have no idea. I'm like in this weird paranoid bubble where I probably have no clue. Right. I get it. Okay. But now you're standing up for yourself. standing up for myself just pushing back but like sure you know when because i do the roast and stuff and i think nothing's funnier than calling

like a skinny man a girl like a crackhead like i would be the first to do it you know right but i think that it gets tricky within the podcast format when you're like oh wait i could make a joke to diffuse that i'm like yeah because i'm a drug addict or i have to like actually like not be a punching bag and like respond thoughtfully yeah yeah well yeah but also it's not if it's not coming at you like a roast and just sort of like this weird kind of condescending concern people like hey because i have people in my family that are legitimately on drugs in a way that is like a daily is that person still alive yeah so it's like when people are like oh so she on drugs i'm like if you only knew yeah how much i'm not on drugs given what i come from can i ask a question and we wouldn't have to leave it in if you don't want to but like i think your sister dm me once

or twice yes i'm sure she did i'm really sorry about that i wouldn't have talked about no no but it's like um it uh i'm so sorry um yeah that's the nightmare i'm sorry that happened it's okay i'm sorry no it's okay i'm no i just it's like i'm so glad someone's using the queen yeah so i do have uh i i think people are a little less hard on me now because people have started like learning about that situation. Yeah. Sorry. No, I'm so sorry. I derailed everything. No, it's just like, it's so fucking embarrassing.

I just don't like, it's like, and I'm glad you brought it up. I think that like, I'm almost at a place where I like talking about how mean people have been to me. And I know I'm putting people in a situation where they have to go like, no, they're not people. Like I'm really not trying to get. Look, and I know because like we used to have a comment board on the old website. And any time a woman comedian would come on my show, it was like relentless. Of course. And I couldn't even understand it. Of course.

And by the way. So that's just there all the time 100 which i'm actually have no umbrage with like i have no i mean i'm sure people do it to guys too i've done i mean i've done rogan no it's bad i've done rogan i've had docs i've had i mean i've had people show up at my house right you know so but i think that to me the reason i like talking about you know, being polarizing or not being everyone's cup of tea. People either fuck with me or they don't. And I'm kind of like, OK with that. I know how I am operating when I don't like someone. I know exactly why.

They're holding a mirror up to me. I'm jealous of that person. This person has something I don't have. Or this person is doing it the fucking easy way. And I did it the fucking hard way. And fuck this person. And I didn't have to do it person is doing it the fucking easy way. And I did it the fucking hard way. And fuck this person. And I didn't have to do it the hard way. I chose to do it that way.

Like, I am clear for the most part when I am activated by someone. Or, oh, this person is, like, hot and cold. That's how my mom was. Like, that's why I'm magnetically in love with this person. So, and I also, like, roll my eyes at try-hards. I'm a try-hard, but I'm embarrassed about it. So I'm like, oh, look at this fucking try-hard. Mulaney's wearing a suit.

Okay. Like, I'm like, yeah, if I was doing arenas, I would totally wear a fucking gorgeous suit, you know? Like, I want what you have. Got it. And, but I think that I like talking about it because what I realized that is so like I almost have sympathy for the people that need to hate me to feel good about themselves. Because I think the funnier thing is like I just kind of started finding out about it. Yeah. Like it didn't even hurt me because I'm, you know, I think like a lot of us like I'm so inherently heartbroken, like as as a person that, like, nothing hurts me.

Like, it's really hard to hurt me. Yeah. And maybe that's why I'm, that's, I think, a lot of the time where I'm like, oh, give it to me. Right. Like, I can take it. You know, don't give it to Laura Bites. Don't give it to, you know, like, give it to me. Don't give it to Esther.

Don't give it to Andy. Like, I can take it, you know? So I think I tend to kind of go like with the Tim Dillons and Rogan all I'm like just make fun of me like I'll be the punchline yeah I love it like I do the roasts like I'm used to this like yeah I'm weirdly bulletproof because I have such an inherently like broken heart yeah um but yeah so that's why I don't take it too but with all that self-awareness then in terms of why you resent people and where you're at in your life i mean what about that broken heart so what do you don't like are you able to have a vulnerability that's

uh that's positive it's hard because and maybe you relate to this because i went through um losing someone a couple years ago as well not the same situation i can't imagine um but there's something wild that happens when like the damocles sword has fallen yeah and the shoe has dropped yeah where like no one has any leverage with you that's true that's true like i'm gonna leave you're like are you gonna leave yeah right you're not gonna get this job am i not gonna get the job like like you don't give a fuck There's something kind of amazing about it in freeing

because I see so many people with the- It's liberating about the heartbreak, about the grief. Well, I see so many people where the worst is yet to come for them.

And I'm like- What, young people? Wait, your dad hasn't died yet? Oh, shit. Like, I feel bad for you. Like, I've already had to, like, walk through that. And I, you know,

get to move through the world, like, in a way, because there's something about that kind of grief and that kind of pain that's weirdly like Liberating not that I would wish not I think that's true though And I think it's something that everyone's got coming Mike both my parents are still alive actually oddly is not weird Nuts it's not it's not going great There they close by no my dad's in Albuquerque my mom's in Florida

do you see them often I go to see him yeah I'm showing up for him somehow yeah even though it was fucked up and weird

with us but you know it's fine I something that really helped me was just asking my primary caretakers

like questions yeah because it like never occurred to me because you're the you know and like the forgiveness is like I think you said like how do you what makes you happy or so you said something the fact that when i can forgive people that's like my new drug like i get high

on forgiveness when you can really do it when you can really like i forgive others not because they deserve forgiveness but can you do it in your heart i can i do i did um does it take work i did an eight uh month attachment strategy course with this guy, George Haas. He used to be at that place against the stream, which I think closed this place in LA. But I've always struggled with meditating. I know most people don't have time. I get fucking bored. Okay.

So the name of the. His name is George Haas. H-A-A-S. Okay. And he does. He helps you figure out your attachment strategy, which I'm sure you know yours. Nothing.

What does it mean? So there's a couple attachment strategies, fearful avoidant, preoccupied. Like love addiction? Yes. Okay. But everyone's secure attachment is one, which probably isn't. You're withholding or you're not the other one. Yeah.

So it's like, if you're preoccupied, I might be fearful avoidant. If you're fearful avoidant, I might be dismissive. So everyone's got a different sort of strategy that has worked for them. A different way of loving. Yeah, or conflict. No, conflict. I know. Like if there's conflict.

And then the love language, mine is just actions and acts of service, which is very few people's. Words mean literally nothing to me so but also like what really becomes the tricky thing about it is like what when are you experiencing you know a vulnerability and a love that is genuine and that you can trust because all this other dancing around it i mean all that stuff after a certain point it seems like you've kind of landed on that it's just these patterns that we engage in to avoid it i've never i feel kind of lucky for this i have never viewed um partnering as something that would be forever i've never i've literally never i guess i saw so many divorces as a kid like i feel that i feel that

i was like two years that's awesome sure yeah i've never been like thought a relationship is a failure like i've never looked at it that way that way. Because staying in it would be such a bigger failure if it's wrong. Yeah, I've never thought about forever until I want to get out. I mean, do you. It's like this is going on forever. Like, you know, to me, I'm like, if this goes for a year, we're winners. You know, if this goes for two years. Yeah, I don't have that.

You know, but I do like lately I just judge it on like, is this easy and okay? I mean, is this like satisfying? Because there's some part of me that maybe I'm cynical, but there is some part of me that I'm like, I might never get to whatever it is that people are trying to get. Or you might have it already. Maybe. But I do know when I'm capable of being open and holding it open. And I have whatever my broken heart will enable. Maybe, but I do know when I'm capable of being open and holding it open. And I have whatever my broken heart will enable.

But sometimes it's just a little bit at a time or whatever. But I'm not one of those people that's going to be selfless moving through the world. It's just not the, you know. I'm so sorry I started crying on your podcast. Why? I'm not. Okay. I don't want you to feel bad. I don't want you to feel bad.

I think that's all it is what that you have a heart and emotion no i just think seeing a woman cry from what i understand is very stressful for men or very erotic or hot i don't know i don't want to get an erection okay i'll fight it you know what else it is i think i'm just like yeah i think that i like to just arrange my life around doing things that need to be done so that I'm not thinking about what I should be doing. So I think for me, the idea of like, am I in the right thing? Am I not? I is one of the program tools I use.

And I'm fine talking about being an Al-Anon and adult show of alcoholics, which is like, I will schedule my worrying. If I'm in a relationship and I'm like, oh, should I be instead of questioning it every single day which is my default is this good is this bad wait a second why did he just say that wait what really yeah your craft okay well now i have to rethink everything but do you do that really you spend it around that much all day long yeah the tiniest oh of course vacillating vacillating all day am i safe am i safe is this right is that am i still oh it's constant but i am also able to i did go on 10 milligrams of Prozac, which was a total miracle for me personally, at least for now, because of the perseverating, just the unnecessary perseverating that benefited no one, which to answer your question about the depression thing, I never, I don't believe I have depression i have many um don't be jealous of many things but um apparently one of the symptoms of depression which gary goldman um helped me understand was also um going on a loop yeah so having a conversation with mark maron getting in my car and go why

the fuck did you say that why did you fucking do that now he thinks you're an idiot okay so next time you see him you should say this what if you send him flowers on your birthday just trying to control your perception of me and the after the afterburn right you know and that's part of depression that is one of them yeah that kind of like because it's keeping you insulated and isolated and from i don't know depression it seems like it's such a giant thing right what what did you learn from the attachment strategy guy? A couple of things. You would in a month at a time forgive everyone in your family in your meditations instead of just being like, I'm going to think about nothing. You do like I forgive you. You forgive me. I forgive myself. A lot of crying involved in this. Not a ton.

Only on your podcast. I haven't cried in a while. That was good. That was crazy. I haven't cried in a while. That was wild. That's good. That was crazy. It's a lot. So let's say you have an aunt, Ruth, who, you know, maybe witnessed your abuse and did nothing. You know, like those little resentments where we don't even realize we hold it.

That wasn't even the abuser. But they witnessed it and didn't do anything about it. And sometimes we're even madder at those people, but we can't really articulate it. And so like uncovering those resentments, because sometimes we're like the abuser or the person that was dysfunctional we found compassion for them it's like oh they had addiction they were an alcoholic hurt people hurt people like you know they didn't have the tools they got it honestly but then the person that witnessed it what the fuck was their deal yeah yeah they didn't fucking do anything right that's probably an unrecovered alan on too right so it's like so forgiving even those people that you didn't even realize how drunk with rage you know intoxified by anger you were with them or couldn't have any kind of like relationship with them because there was that sort of wedge.

Why the fuck didn't you do anything? Like, where were you? And even though they were in their own adult child responses and then you forgive yourself. That's like a big thing. I know it's dorky. Yeah. Like when I did my amend step in ACA, the first person i had to write amends to was myself is a is like you know and that all holds yeah the being hard on myself the self-depriving i mean a big thing

with alanons is like you know we don't floss but we're helping other people move like we don't take care of ourselves in, like, very basic ways. So when I got into Al-Anon, it was, like, a complete reparenting process. Like, going to the dentist, going to the doctor, like, very... Right, because you let yourself get drained.

You give yourself over. Meanwhile, I'm, like, helping a guy move, and he's separated or not, you know? And, like, we're obsessing, you know, the three Ms, mothering, micromanaging and martyring on other people, yet we're not flossing our own fucking teeth. You know, so I really had to like reparent that way.

So yeah, that did help me to sort of apologize to myself for like, I'm sorry the way I treated you because I treated you the way you were treated and I parented, I took care of myself the way I was parented. That's all I knew. knew yeah you know it's like it didn't even occur to me to like make my bed and like you know just oh see i like yeah i did that stuff early in recovery i was told i was taught to make my bed so like i do that and i do that every day and i brush my teeth no matter what and i exercise like all these was, I cried last night when I watched,

I watched Days of Wine and Roses. Wow. With Jack Lemmon and Lee Raymond. I know it. I remember when I first went to Al-Anon, my sponsor told me to watch it. And like, it's the best AA movie

and it's so fucking on the money. And like, and it was like, it was devastating. You know, this woman I've been hanging out with, she had never seen it and I don't know why it was on Criterion and I was like, it was devastating. This woman I've been hanging out with, she had never seen it and I don't know why it was on Criterion

and I'm like, let's watch it. And I'm just sort of like, oh my God, it just gutted me. But it gutted me at the same time that I get gutted when I listen to people tell their stories in the program. When Jack Klugman shows up and says, you don't have to live this way,

I'm like, oh my God. You don't have to live this way i'm like oh my god you know you don't have to feel like that ever again right but and i'm so glad though that my brain has been washed like that like i remember being in the rooms and some guys talking about how uh you know when he first came in he's like you know he's yelling at his sponsor it's like this bullshit man this brain washinghing and this sponsor said your brain needs to be washed needs to be cleaned yep but like you know it's it's really kind of moving that that's something in your life however you put it together has that kind of impact and it's and it's deeper than a decision it's like in there and i do a lot of, you know, things, you know, to reinforce that. But I think that like, ultimately, I'm an energy conservationist first. And, you know, the equine therapy stuff, it's a gala liberty training with horses. It's basically like equine therapy.

Do you ride on the horses a lot? So we don't, it's not, the idea is you don't just get on a horse and ride it. No, but do you ride horses? It's, if it's consensual, I grew up doing it the wrong way. Like just you jump on a horse and it's, it belongs to you and it does what you want and it's there to serve you only. Yeah. And it doesn't have a specific personality. That's why they call horses, they're broken.

They break their spirits, you know? So we unbreak horses is the idea to get their spirit back. But you're a horse rider. Sure. Yeah. Okay. I mean, no, but... No, I mean, you know how to ride horses.

Yes, I do. Yes, that is correct. But I choose not to unless it's consensual with them. So you could actually do a lot more amazing things with horses if you don't just jump on them. How do you develop a consensual relationship with a horse? The same way you kind of would with anyone is you only do 50% of the work and make sure they like choose to be around you. So horses are such an incredible way to learn about yourself because they don't give a shit what you do. It's a fairly impractical therapy animal though,

like for traveling on planes and whatnot. There has been a mini horse on jet blue okay i feel like um but uh but you know it's we're ultimately you know yeah a prey animal so and they're all about conserving energy so the real reason that horses if you're like going in and i don't know if this horse likes me i want to get a picture with it what if this horse won't let me ride it it just wants to get away from you because you're just exhausting yeah and it doesn't know when its next meal is going to be because it's relying on grass. Right. So you're just too. And they're so clear. They're so black and white.

You know, they don't go, well, I need to talk to Marc Maron because he's famous. And what if he helps me get a TV show? So I'm just going to stay here. So do you find that the horses want to see you fail? I can. I thought you were going to be so on the same page, but I'm so like. Oh, stop it blown away that maybe not so much anymore maybe i need to catch up to this like i just had this last special that

came out i was bracing for the like backlash and there like was none and i was like oh maybe i'm out of the woods but no no i was kidding about the horses but i mean in the sense that like because you say that they are sensitive to exhausting energy. So you're saying that part of your 50% is to somehow get to that level where that is not the case. Be someone that would be calming to be around. Yeah. So the only way you can really cajole them is with serenity. Whereas dogs, you can use treats. Cats, you can use treats.

Right. But horses, they can get food without you with grass. So they don't need that. The only reward is serenity with them and peace. So if you can't create some kind of like energetic peace within yourself, they don't want to be near you. So a lot of times just in the beginning when you start with someone. And being terrified is is not. Well, they don't. But they don't know you're terrified of them. They just think you're terrified. So they're like, oh, there's a bobcat close by. So now we're all stressed. Right. Right. But but like if you're afraid of horses, they're going to read that as like, I don't need this shit. So now we're all stressed out. Right. But, but like, if you're afraid of horses, they're going to read that as like, I don't need this shit.

No, but you're, but also they don't know why you'd be afraid of them because they don't have the intent to hurt you. Right. So if you get too close to them, you're hurting yourself, which is a whole other conversation. Cause it's like, to me, the, one of the most amazing metaphors for codependence and entrenchment because we want to like snuggle a horse and then it steps on us. And we're like, it's like, no, same thing with relationships. It's like my, you know, I know we're not on video but my therapist always says

relationships should be like this not like this you know yeah yeah if you yeah if you hold sand in the palm of your hand like this straight out yeah you can hold it forever but if you hold it like this you're gonna lose it so they go through your fingers so it's i had to literally i was so confused about the proximity that was healthy for intimacy. I would get so close to someone dangerous. I would get in cages with tigers and hurt myself and then be like, why did you hurt me? It's like, well, why the fuck did you get in a cage with a tiger? Right.

You know, that's what Al-Anon is. Right. That's what codependent relationships are. Yeah. You fucking hurt me. Well, you knew I was a tiger. That's why you like me. Yeah.

You know, it's that dance. Yeah. And it's also not real intimacy it's just no it's like this weird kind of like contrition and rage and you know forcing intimacy adrenaline junkie shit oversharing trauma bonding i mean it's it's uh just recreating your childhood circumstances like harville hendrix 101 that book is amazing getting the love you want when you're just magnetically attracted to someone. Where are you at with this shit now? Dude, I am so fucking, I remember my therapist said to me once. How many therapists do you have? I have one therapist and I don't even go that far.

I mean, I do. I'm not judging you. I mean, I just didn't like, I mean, how many have you been to? You've been with a guy a long time? I feel like a woman. Yeah. I've been with her maybe 15 years. Yeah.

She's amazing. Put me an Allen on. Her whole thing is like, I don't want you coming back here i want you to get better like why are you you know so i am a 12-step bitch i'm into free medicine yeah um because and also free medicine free medicine what does that mean well just al 12-step programs are just okay i got it when i first went into program someone there were three things that made me understand why i needed to keep coming back because i did not want to keep coming back. I thought I was perfect.

I'm the nicest person alive. All I do is help people. I know my intentions. I just want to, you know, make everything perfect and cook everyone and help everyone all the time. And I didn't realize the pathological thoughtfulness. I didn't understand the whole people pleasing is a form of assholery. I don't understand that if your motives aren't clean, you're actually just manipulating somebody.

And you're so terrified of abandonment that you're going to be useful to them and nice to them so that they'll think you're a good person. Just be the good person that you are. Like what is that? You know, pathological gift giving, pathological helpfulness, all that shit. And I have good news and bad news

because I first went into Al-Anon basically to be like oh I'm gonna go learn how to get my family members to stop drinking yeah this is gonna be so helpful so when was that that was been when yeah 13 yeah yeah 13 years ago I was like oh this is gonna be great yeah yeah yeah exactly like I have the whole I got I'm gonna get all the instructions I need to get them sober the book to help them out they're gonna like love this like this is gonna go and um and someone uh the guy that was sharing he went um okay i have good news and bad news uh the good news is that the war is over the bad news is that you lost and i just like got as soon as i like got it and then he said something where he's like um you know codependence we have a

pathological thoughtfulness we're pathologically thoughtful and i was like that i i understand what that means yeah that's what i am all i do is think about how to make someone's life better yeah and then by the time i see them i'm like why the fuck oh this is how you're gonna act after i've spent the whole day thinking thinking about you and how to make your life better and i've done all stuff they didn't ask for right and it was just like that's it it's like we break our own hearts yeah we set ourselves oh that's interesting that's that's our comfort zone we create circumstances where there is no other choice right to be the victim so it's like if you're not going to hurt me i'm going to create it so that you just you are hurting me i'm going to recreate my childhood circumstances and this

victim role because that's really comfortable for me. I know how to do it. You know, being treated well and like that is suspicious to me because also when you're raised by Al-Anons or any kind of Al-Anonism in your family, kindness is suspicious. It's exploitive. Because it's like, well, you try to manipulate me. Why are you trying to? Why are you helping me? That's interesting. Well, but yeah, because it's like, oh, you screamed at me yesterday. Now you're like all nice and cheering, trying to make up for it.

Well, yeah, I've been trying to figure that out, too. Like I've because I talk about my parents not really being capable of selfless love or nurturing. But they did worry constantly. But it was more sort of like I hope nothing happens to him because I don't know how that would affect me. How could they? I mean, like what have you gone into all the like family constellation stuff or the ancestral trauma stuff that really helped me a bit. I mean,

like I, I, I get it, you know, and it's, and I can feel that I'm not controlled by a lot of that stuff anymore. And, you know,

things are like, I know where I'm at and what I'm willing to risk and what I'm not, you know, in a way, you know what I really appreciate about you? I said, at least your fears are, or the things you worry about are actually happening. Yeah. Like you're like, we're running out of water.

That's true. Like that is actually true. And I know, you know, all this, but I was talking to someone the other day, cause I'm working on this dog food that takes less water to make because a lot like meat is, you know, one of the biggest reasons we're having this drought, almonds and almond milk and avocados and that shit too.

But every cow is 260,000 gallons of water or something. So it's like half cricket protein, whatever we'll say. And, and so I was talking to this guy who's like works in the Water Commission of California.

And I was like, so the drought, like how we're like, what's this going to be like? Are we going to have, are we going to have like, you can only shower three days a week. Like there's going to be like laws rolling out right they're gonna start just cutting your water and so um he goes oh you know what um I would put a pin in that and I would actually start

worrying about the fact that half of the world's fertilizer is in Russia and next year if uh we don't get it to South America and America we be in a legitimate famine. Oh, famine. Yeah. Like a legitimate. Yeah. Yeah. And then a couple of years ago, I was very in deep about how we're running out of sand. Sand. For. Sand.

So China, all these countries that are building to build glass, you have to use sand. Right. And we're literally running out of sand because sand is made by rivers over thousands of years. Yeah. So I got obsessed with in India, there's this like sand mafia. And they send people to the bottom of the ocean to get sand. And then they just zoom off. Wow.

They take the sand and just leave them. Huh. So you got into the sand problem. I get into these holes like you. You keep going. Yeah. Because I like to at least, I can build self-worth by going, well, at least you're worrying about something that's happening.

Sure. Instead of like, does so-and-so like me? Yeah, I tend to, but I get really obsessed with dumb little shit. Like today I was Googling two whole buttons. Like I needed- What do you mean?

I get like the wooden spoon thing's a real thing. Like I'll get, like I just walk into something, like I have these lacoste shirts that i've had forever and and i didn't wear them for years but now i'm sort of wearing them and one of them is missing a button and it's a very specific button on a lacoste polo so i'm like well where the fuck do you get these and my first thought was like well why don't you reach out to lacoste so i emailed lacoste and said where do i get the two whole buttons on your polo shirts

i've not heard back from lacoste so then then I realized, like, maybe just look up two-hole buttons. So this morning I was looking up two-hole buttons, but it's like, how big are these buttons? So then I had to download an online tape measure because I don't have a fucking ruler to measure the buttons. So now I've got a 10-millimeter two-hole button, but I want it to be sunken a little bit so it looks like the buttons on the shirt like anyone would give a fuck.

You measured a button with a ruler. I did. I measured a button with a ruler. It can't be bigger than an inch. But I do that. But I love that about you. I think that this is also why you're such a brilliant comedian

because you approach a joke the same way you approach that fucking button. It's an ongoing conversation. Eventually more will be resolved and that's why

most of my jokes don't finish themselves for a year or two because they need to come together with the other stuff. What's the last joke on a joke? Yeah. Or like the last joke on a scene at

least we call a button right oh that's funny that's true you know but like my things are always evolving but but so all that aside and outside of the famine but i'm the same i will worry about i've got this but i but i'm i accept that about myself because it's better than you know it's better than crying sometimes and also 2 000 years ago you would have been the most valuable person in the tribe the guy like googling buttons yeah get the get the button googler over here because we're in trouble you were the guy that wouldn't fucking let shit slide you were the guy that was like this is a tiger print and they're like no it's not you're like i'm telling you a tiger lives here but i do that for like you know maybe a couple hours and be like, well, I'm leaving.

And then you just go, I'm rich. Why don't I buy a new lacrosse? Lacrosse? What's it called? I could. Yeah, the lacrosse. But no, but it's just sort of like, if you guys are going to sit here and fucking not say there's going to tiger.

That's why I fucking, that's the only reason I applied for permanent residency was because I needed to take some sort of action that would, you know, that would make me feel better. If we're going to just be out running climate like I don't have kids and it looks like my money will hold up until I die. So, like, if the thing is like, you know, if I've earned a certain amount of peace of mind, you know, why not go find it? And if that means trying to outrun climate, then I mean, that's just the way it's going to be. So and fascism. So in my mind, like I've been a lot better since I filed that application. It may take two or three years to process and I might not get in. But I know I've taken an action where that escape fantasy is viable and it's based in reality. It's not I'm not making shit up. You know, when when Sebastian gets up, there's this is water. Is anyone really worried about water?

Do you actually shower like you're running out of water? I'm like, yes, and we all should be. You know, I don't, whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that I see what you mean. It's taken me a long time to not internalize comedians' jokes. If I did that, I would just have jumped off a building by now you know like i always assume that whatever anyone's doing on stage is some exaggerated like sure of course

because otherwise every time someone got off stage i'd be like what the fuck like you know but there is a certain amount of denial and there's a certain amount of wrong-mindedness that i can identify and i'm certainly no comedy cop and i and i enjoy people's acts yeah but sometimes people are like right and i'm like no not really does anyone yeah so what is the new special just come out just came out yes sir I paid for it myself and licensed it oh how's that go for you I think it went it was a little bit nerve-wracking but it seemed like that was like okay this is the next thing and you got all the boys to push it the big shot shot? You got Rogan and everybody? I went on a bunch of podcasts, yeah.

Yeah. I don't know what that, you know. Well, I mean, but how did it make? It's doing well as of now from what I know. But I think the first 90 days are a big, that's what matters, I guess, to this service as of now. So you don't get a daily kind of like download count? No. Oh, God. I told him, I was like, I don't want to, don't tell me. Just kind of like download count? No. Oh God.

I told them, I was like, I don't want to, don't tell me, just give me like the, you know, top line. But apparently a thing that is good about it,

which is honestly the best feedback I could get is people are not, or people are finishing it in the first sitting. And they're- They have to pay for it though, right? If it's on Netflix.

Yeah. It's just on Netflix. Oh, it's just on Netflix. Oh, so you made it and sold it to Netflix? Yes. Okay. I made it on my own because it was also Netflix, yeah. It's just on Netflix. Oh, it's just on Netflix. Oh, so you made it and sold it to Netflix? Yes.

Okay. I made it on my own because it was also during the pandemic. And it was like, you know, the- And what was that deal with them? So they didn't offer you a deal. You said, well, I'll just make one and you'll put it on. They were like, okay. Okay.

Interesting. Yeah. And I could have licensed it to other places too. But it was kind of like, you know, at this time where it was like, oh, the insurance in order to shoot it right now. Like, just wait until- And I was like, I to other places too, but it was kind of like, you know, at this time where it was like, oh, the insurance in order to shoot it right now, let's just wait until, and I was like, I can't keep doing this material. And then I saw, you know, the last four specials I did showing up on all these other platforms.

Like, how is it on Paramount Plus? Like, how is it on this? Like, where are, why can't I even put these on my social media? Jesus Christ, I can't. My show, Maren, four seasons of it, you can't watch it anywhere. So you should feel lucky. Can you buy it back? I think you, oh, I don't know. Wait, I wait i'm sure ifc will have what was the studio fox so there's next fox 21

now i wonder i wonder if i could buy it back either you could buy it back or it's someone saving it to put on their streaming platform but i know that a show that i did on warner brothers is not on like netflix or you know because it it was on Netflix for a while oh that's good yeah I mean it definitely got some juice and you can still buy it but you can't buy it internationally

it's a weird thing that's very annoying not on Amazon that's not on Amazon that's very dumb it was on Netflix for a while but then it was like

not all of it was on Netflix Europe whatever it's a good question though I wonder if we can get it back I just

it's like kind of one of those things where you're like oh this day and age, you just want to be able to fucking put a clip. Are you doing jokes? Watch this. Watch this.

See me in Columbus at the fucking whatever. I just got onto TikTok. I don't know what to do with it. I do. I've been thinking a lot about your TikTok presence. You just saw it? I have. No, just because you've been talking about it.

The only thing that I do with TikTok is it's like clips from specials the way that we used to syndicate tv shows i know that's what everyone's doing now but do you have a service that does it yes they cut them up and it's just like a minute i can get that guy new people will discover you that are like that's just the new syndication and i don't complain about it because remember when we would make specials for comedy central and it would be four minutes no i get it i get it i get commercial. No, I get it. You hire the people and they can take... I have a history of fucking content.

They can take content. I have four or five specials. Embarrassment of riches. You have enough content for three years. Right, but you just hire someone to go find the jokes and then put them up there. And by the way, and then go, oh, this is his bit about coyotes.

There was just a coyote attack in Arizona. So and then it's going to get in the algorithm. And then it just kind of turns into a little bit of a Tetris game. I mean, Carlin is literally trending on TikTok. No, I get it. I can understand putting old clips up because most people don't know who I am, really. That's just the reality. People know me. Most people don't want you I am, really. That's just the reality. You know, like, I'm not, like, people know me.

Most people don't want you to fail. That's true. But I mean, but I'm still a thing that people could see on their TikTok and go, who the fuck is this guy? That can happen. There's a whole generation or two. And I think that's a good thing. That's what you want. No, that's exactly. But when they see you doing stand-up, they're like, oh, this guy's a fucking genius.

Right. Why would someone who's 15 or 18 know us? Right. You know? Exactly. I am not going to sit down and watch an hour. They're going to go, let me just get a taste. I get it.

I get that. I get that. So I reached out to somebody. He hasn't called me back. He hasn't emailed me back. Who's your company? Same people as Jeselnik? No, I don't think so.

I don't know who his are. He's Nick Kroll's guy. I didn't even know he was on it. He just started. So Jeselnik's like, yeah, I just started doing it. And I'm like, who's your guy? He's like, I got Nick Kroll's guy. I'm like, well, can you talk to Nick Kroll's guy. We just started. So Jeslyn, it's like, yeah, I just started doing it. And I'm like, who's your guy? He's like, I got Nick Kroll's guy. I'm like, well, can you talk to Nick Kroll guy about me?

So I email the guy. Right. I email the guy that, you know, that told you. Oh, he just got back to me. Oh, hi, Mark. Awesome to hear from you. This is you in a nutshell. People are fucking against me, man.

Oh, wait, they love me. No, it's just speaking to what you were saying i just i wrote the guy oh wait i just didn't check my email i wrote the guy yesterday and i was like and i was worried you know i told him like about my ig and about about you know uh that i just got on tick tock and it's verified i don't know and i said and i at the end i said tell me what you can do with the situation. So then, like, because I didn't hear back from him immediately, I'm like, maybe that was a little too forward. Like, the guy's not running a business. But I remember why I'm nervous about asking like that.

Why? Because one time, a million years ago, Kerry Hoffman, the guy who used to run Stand Up New York and manage. He was half, you know, he's kind of a manager. He managed Zach Galifianakis at the beginning. And he used to own Stand Up New York. And now I think he became a Frank Sinatra impersonator. But there was some weird thing during a period of time where I was unmanaged where he's like,

or maybe Becky was just starting, but he approached me, said, how would you like me to co-manage you with what's his name, Rollins? Henry? No, no, no, no uh rollins and joffy the guy who used to represent dick cavett woody allen jack rollins he was a producer and and a famous manager nichols and may like he was a guy but at this point though you know he kind of wants to get back in the game a little bit he's's like 100 years old, right? And I said, well, I'd like to meet him and talk to him. And so he has Rollins come out and see me, this old man. He

watched my standup and the guy's like, yeah, you know, it's great. You just got to keep, take it all the way out there. Don't stop, push it. And I'm like, okay, that's pretty good advice. And I still think about that because it's Rollins, Jack Rollins, right? So I'm supposed to have a lunch with the two of them, right? So I get there early and old Jack Rollins is there, the 100-year-old man. And I just sat down without Carrie there. And this is about management. So I said to him, well, what can you do for me? And then Hoffman shows up and it's an awkward meeting.

And then afterwards, he's like, I should have gotten there sooner. You can't ask a guy like that what he can do for you. And I'm like, what? He's like, yeah, it's not going to happen. It's too old? No, it was just like for some yeah, it's not going to happen. It's too old? No, it was just like, for some reason, I wasn't looking at it correctly. Like, I was looking at it selfishly.

Like, you know, how are you going to help me, you know, do what? I don't know what the fuck it was. Well, that to me is just you saying, like, so what's the plan? Exactly. I'm giving you 10% of my money. Yeah, yeah. What else is this meeting going to be? Right. I don't know.

He wanted to, he thought, like, I was already in my 30s. He thought he was just getting some kid who he's going to break. I don't know. No, you were completely in the right. That was a professional pro move. But so when I say things like, tell me what you can do for me, I get a little like, you know. The way you said it, it was funny. What can you do with this situation? It's self-deprecating.

Well, he got right back to me, but it was a day later. But that's okay. Well, this is a Saturday. I get it, but yesterday was Friday. And also, I'm finding email. I check email once a day now. I don't check it incessantly like I used to. If I want to reach out to someone, I'll go, hey, can I text you?

And then I'll even text on my computer as if it's email. But can I ask you a question just really quick about TikTok that helped me or say, what helped me is to go, I'm not going to do lazy cheerleading and dancing. I'm not going to try to do what they do. I'm going to do. Not going to do lip syncing or any of that shit.

Not doing any. Me neither. I just put a minute up of a kitten eating. But what do we, what are we good at? What am I good? I'm a fucking know-it-all. Like I like, like little life hacks. I'm like Southern raised by southern aunt so it's like the biggest video i think that i've done on there so far is just me going the easiest way to cut a

cake is actually just with dental floss uh-huh and i and then it's like it's like it's just useful yeah we're older we're just useful okay that might be useful you can just be like look the best way to cook this is an olive oil it It's coconut oil. Here's why. Like, they can be that simple. Are we going a little longer because you feel bad for me because I cried? No, I'm just trying to figure out how to shut you up. Dismount. Gracefully.

Is that it? A ball gag? It is weird when people listen to my podcast. They'll be like like you talk a lot i'm like it's okay i don't i'm kidding i i had a nice conversation i don't know what else to do i think we've had a nice arc i feel like you i i feel like you know i feel like it's finally maybe nap time for you put me down give me a tranquilizer no i think the best version is your of your podcast is when you're having a good time and when people are just bringing out information. We had a good time. Okay.

I feel like- Don't drive away from this thinking anything. And if there's anything you don't want in it, you tell me. No, you do what you do. I feel like I didn't finish a couple thoughts, but that's probably better. Well, if you want to text me later no i'll do it in the intro i heard from whitney and she was very concerned that she left this dangling and we wanted to are on the edge of your seat we needed to close this hatch to know where that

al-adha meeting was was it new hampshire or commonwealth she did not what is it close the hatch on that one you know what's so annoying about that actually this is why i love you so much because i think you and i both love it when people not hold us accountable but nothing gets past them like nothing fucking gets past you and i love that about you because when you can't get away with anything with someone there's something you just don't have to you can just put all your fucking yeah you relax take your time and once it's established you can just like put all your fucking yeah you relax take your tattoos off and once it's established you can fucking just like relax but you know that I

I had a neuroscientist on my podcast and he said close the hatch and I thought it was dumb when he said it and then I said it and of course

you fucking called me out on it and I was like I agree that it was dumb but you picked it up and then I fucking said it you picked it up and then of course you fucking

it's like you knew there was something inauthentic about that and you couldn't fucking just let it go. The worst part of it is you're fucking right. Hey, let's close the hatch on this. We're closing the hatch. That's what I say. We're doing it. When people, here's the thing I say about you.

Last thing I say. It's a hydraulic hatch. we're doing it when people here's the thing i say about you last thing i'll say some people it's a hydraulic hatch if anyone is ever like thinks you're rude to them or mean to them or anyone else like mark i don't know i'm like if he said something insulting to you chances are it was right that's the problem with you is it like maybe he shouldn't have said it that way but he was correct oh all right we're closing the hatch. Love you. Love you, too. Funnier than ever. Oh, you, too. That was exciting. Whitney Cummings.

Wow. Always an exciting ride in terms of the conversation. Whitney Cummings Jokes is now streaming on Netflix. And I've got more, actually, to say about Whitney, if you just hang out for a second. It's a night for the whole family. Be a part of Kids Night when the Toronto Rock take on the Colorado Mammoth at a special 5 p.m. start time on Saturday, March 9th at First Ontario Centre in Hamilton.

The first 5,000 fans in attendance will get a Dan Dawson bobblehead courtesy of Backley Construction. Punch your ticket to Kids Night on Saturday, March 9th at 5 p.m. in Rock City at torontorock.com. different with the bonus content on the full Marin this week. When Whitney came over, we talked for like two hours and there were a lot of tangents and digressions and stuff that went all over the place. So today, right alongside this episode, we released an additional 25 minutes of extra Whitney. If you're subscribed to the full Marin, that bonus episode is sitting in your feed right now. And if you haven't subscribed, click on the link in the episode description or go to wtfpod.com and click on wtf plus next week we have uh al ruddy producer of the godfather on monday and sharon van etten uh on thursday ruddy was pretty exciting he's like a very much an older guy uh and uh it was it's interesting to see him get a little worked up at times. And you could see why he was

such an effective producer. And Sharon Van Etten, I've been kind of meaning to talk to for a long time. And she was finally off the road and able to come in. And it was good. These are good conversations. I'm in Tucson, Arizona at the Rialto Theater on September 16th, Phoenix, Arizona at Stand Up Live on September 17th, Boulder, Colorado at the Boulder Theater on September 22nd, Fort Collins, Colorado at the Lincoln Center on September 23rd, and Toronto, Ontario at the Queen Elizabeth Theater on September 30th and October 1st. I'll be in London, England at the Bloomsbury Theater, Saturday and Sunday, October 22nd and 23rd. And I'll be in Dublin, Ireland at Vicar Street, Wednesday, October 26th. I have dates in November and December in Oklahoma City, Dallas, San Antonio, Houston,

Eugene, Oregon, Bend, Oregon, Asheville, North Carolina, and Nashville, Tennessee. And my HBO special taping at Town Hall in New York City is on Thursday, December 8th. Go to WTFpod.com slash tour for all dates and ticket info. We're going to go back into the vault. I'm not going to deny you guitar just because I'm on the road. We're going to pull a classic guitar riff out. Boomer lives. Monkey LaFonda. Cat angels everywhere. Thank you. boomer lives