WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1375 - Ralph Macchio

Episode Date: October 17, 2022

Everyone knows Ralph Macchio as Daniel LaRusso from The Karate Kid. In fact, so many people know him as Daniel LaRusso, he wrote a book about spending his life as that character. Ralph and Marc talk about his memoir Waxing On: The Karate Kid and Me, and delve into his life before the headband, as he worked with Francis Ford Coppola on The Outsiders, acted opposite Robert De Niro on stage, and tried to make sense of everything when superstardom hit. They also get into the protectiveness Ralph felt about the franchise when he was approached with the idea to revisit the character for Cobra Kai. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Along with your favorite restaurant food, alcohol, and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing.

With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fuck buddies, what the fuck Knicks, this is Mark Maron, this is my podcast WTF,

welcome to it, if you're new, hang out, I am not broadcasting from home, I am still in New York, I'm still in a hotel room in New York City, I've been here for a few days, it's been a great trip, I could tell you about it, do you want me to tell you about it, I can tell you about it, but first let me just set up the show a little bit. Today, I talked to Ralph Macchio. Yeah, that guy. Of course, you know who he is. He was Daniel LaRusso in The Karate Kid and now in Cobra Kai. And in fact, so many people know him as Daniel LaRusso. He wrote a book about it. It's called Waxing On, The Karate Kid and Me kid and me and i figured look i had an opportunity to talk to ralph i'll talk to ralph he's one of those guys that you kind of felt like you grew

up with at a certain point in your life depending on what age you were i'm a little older but my brother was certainly in that world but you know he's ralph macchio and i'm a fan of cobra kai and we had a nice conversation also i, I'll be in London this week. So if you don't have tickets to my sold out standup shows and still want to come see me, I'll be doing a live WTF at the Bloomsbury Theater on Wednesday, October 19th with writer and comedian, David Baddiel.

It's been a long time since I've done a live WTF. We used to do them. I don't know how many of you know this. We originally did live WTFs that used to do them. I don't know how many of you know this. We originally did live WTFs that were not like the show. They were multiple performer broadcasts. We would do it at a venue and there'd be four or five guests that we just bring out in a row and do interviews with them and kind of riff with them. And originally we did it. This is going back. Before we just bring out in a row and do interviews with them and kind of riff with them. And originally we did it.

This is going back. Before we could figure out how to make money doing the podcast without closing it down and offering it for membership, there was just limited things you could do. You could sell merch. You could get donations. I don't even think Patreon existed at that time. Or, you know, you could do some other sort of performing, live performance. And it was still pretty early on in podcasting to where that draw was. You know, I don't know that we could make a living out of it doing live WTS, but they were special events that we recorded as content that people would buy.

We had set up a pay site where those were made available and it was specifically done to try to make money at podcasting. There's a handful of those somewhere, but they were always exciting. And I remember getting artwork made for them for the posters. And there was one that was like Ira Glass. I was so excited to have Ira Glass and Artie Lang on the same panel. And then there was another one where we had a woman that was a robot expert and she made a little robot that she claimed did stand-up comedy. So I had her and I had Otto and George. There was some interesting bookings and they were definitely fun shows, but it's been a while since I've done a live one. I did a couple events as a interviewer that I didn't love doing that.

Of course, there's the Terry Gross one, which was done live, but just by virtue of it was at an event and the Paul McCartney was done live because that was at an event. But the multi-guest live WTFs are a rarity. But this one I'm doing in England, we're just trying it out.

David Baddiel's an interesting guy. He's a big deal in England. He was a big comic performer in a duo, and then he did one-man show stuff. Then he wrote some novels, some children's books, and now he's written a book about being a Jew, and he sort of speaks out about anti-Semitism and how it's framed in the current

world we're in. But he's an interesting guy and I didn't know anything about him and now I know a lot about him and I'm going to talk to him about it. So that's going to happen in London on October 19th and then you'll eventually hear it here. So, fuck you guys. I've been in this hotel room. I don't know what it is when I get hotel rooms. I would say six out of 10 hotel rooms that I stay in, it sounds like the person upstairs is involved in some sort of long game of marbles. I don't know if they're different size marbles. Sometimes it sounds like they're small glass or metal balls and then sometimes slightly larger ones that are rolling around up there i don't know what's going on i don't know if it's uh someone's following me and this is designed to

make me crazy just like he's why would anybody be playing with marbles i don't know but i don't know what's going on up there it sounds like like marbles. It stopped now, which is good. I never know what the hell's going on in rooms because you assume like, is there really a reason to move furniture? Look, sex noises next door is one thing. I don't hear much of that anymore. I stay in pretty good hotels,

but upstairs you're like, why would they be rearranging the entire room? Why are they playing tennis in their room? What the fuck is that noise should i call somebody a bit of that happens but i've been here since what tuesday night what has happened since i talked to you i feel like i recorded when did i record probably wednesday but i did so yeah so you don't know anything that's happened. I came out here to play this gig for a kind of benefit gathering party at a loft. We did the gig.

It's called the Soho Sessions. It takes place in this loft, and it raises awareness for certain charities. And it was me, Jimmy Vivino, Jimmy Vaughn, who's a fucking hero of mine from the Fabulous Thunderbirds. So I got here in in and on that Wednesday on the Wednesday I rehearsed I rehearsed with Jimmy Vivino with the band with Jimmy Vaughn came in again a hero of mine could not believe I was playing with Jimmy Vaughn I did two songs with Jimmy Vaughn and the rest of the guys but so we rehearsed on Wednesday also on Wednesday Dave Mannheim from

Dopey, the podcast, he's over at Katz's. They set me up with a plate of meat. So I'm jamming meat into my face Wednesday. Big mounds of brisket, pastrami, corned beef, rye bread, pickles. So that happens. And then I went to the Whitney Museum. I'm a member. I like to be a contributor, went to the Whitney Museum. I'm a member. I like to be a contributor, I guess a patron of the arts, and I'm just happy that when I'm in town, I can just go over there, but it doesn't always sync up with a major event, but they had a members-only preview of this show, this Edward Hopper show. Edward Hopper in New York, I think, is the show at the Whitney, or Edward Hopper in New York, I think is the show at the Whitney or Edward Hopper's New York. So I just made my way over there and that was fucking spectacular. I mean, just, you know, just unbelievable. And then on Thursday night, we did the show. It was great. There were some

people I hadn't seen in a while there. Michael Imperioli was hanging out the loft. His son played guitar. It was very sweet, sweet good guitar player and i saw some old friends and we did the we did a show and i only fucked up a little bit i just fucked up the dylan song a little bit and it's it's kind of sticking with me i've really got to stop beating the shit out of myself any ideas but that was uh it was amazing playing with jimmy vaughn and then after that then the next day what happened we did i did the tech run through or the beginning of the process of putting my HBO special together at Town Hall, kind of looking at logistics, looking at set design, meeting the crew, meeting the producers, getting everybody in one room so they could break into groups and do their thing. And then I went and met Brendan, who I never see because I'm in L.A. and he's here. And we did this sort of day hang.

We went down, ate at Veselka. Got to be honest, as nice as it is that, you know, Veselka is kicking back some bread to the Ukrainian war effort, the food has gone downhill tremendously. It was just a bland plate of mush in different shapes. Some of it didn't taste good at all. And it's very sad. It's a very sad thing. Uh, you know, when, um, when a place that, you know, you've sort of, you kind of hold deer and, and it kind of, uh, trigger certain memories if it's consistent,

you know, it's sad when that moment diminishes that when all of a sudden the food's not as good as it it used to be or that place is not there anymore or the the store is now some other store or what they do to the building you used to live in where somehow or another these reliable time travel vessels uh become compromised and it was a bit of heartbreak maybe it was a bad day i don't know i did a couple other places uh that were okay but brendan and i we hung out for a few hours went down to ferrara's uh the italian pastry place that i used to go with my grandmother when we came into the city had ricotta cheesecake i'm just you know stuffing myself i seem to be on some sort of suicide trip with food but

well you know we'll see you know who isn't i don't know i can't seem to reel it in right now but yeah so then i also went to mogador uh which is another place that place held up pretty good that food was pretty good and on saturday i spent the day with sam lipsight we did a little talk on the mics and then we headed out to the tompkins Square Park, talked some more there, talked about stuff, personal stuff. Then we went and had dinner at the Greek place, Kiklides. That was the best. And then we went and saw Ron Carter Trio, the Ron Carter Trio at Birdland.

Spectacular, because I was going to talk to him. Also, sorry, went to Russ and Daughters. Yeah, got that covered too. The cafe had bagels and lox. So now I'm just wondering when my heart's going to stop and getting ready to go to London today. That's how that's going. I got to be honest with you. I've been here, what? So what is it? Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday. So five, six days and it's fall. And I fucking love it.

I think I'm moving back to New York. This is the new vision for the future. Halftime in Canada, halftime New York City and doing nothing but doing things that I enjoy. Would that be okay? I did zero comedy while I was here. And you know what? It was fucking tremendous.

It's so weird about the general comedy scene for me in New York City. Like the comedy cellar, when I really think about it, it was just always kind of like, I've got to know how to do this. I have to know how to do this room. I have to perform well in this hard-ass room.

It was all about knowing how to do it or learning how to do it and just getting through it. The best thing about the Comedy Cellar was seeing your friends. And I don't know, man. I just didn't feel like dealing. I didn't feel like going to a New York City comedy club and just like, you know, hammering it out. It just, I don't know. Maybe it's just because, you know, I started here. I spent a lot of time here just pounding my head against the wall and doing okay. I just wanted to see some friends,

but I didn't. I don't even know how many of my friends are around. Maybe I'll go in tonight. We'll see, just to say hi. But I just didn't do any comedy. I did all the other stuff. But the point being, I want to live here. You feel so alive. It's so great to be surrounded by all these people.

There's no place like New York where everything is a collaborative effort. Just being out on the street is a giant collaborative effort. The entire city is a collaborative effort. You're walking around with hundreds and hundreds of other people at every corner. Just, uh, everyone is making sure for the most part that things run the correct way. It is just a Petri dish of humanity i was working i was walking through times square last night and it's all lit up it's it's it's like it's almost like what i imagine tokyo to be like a blade runner except it's it's a little too american but it's it's a spectacle but you just see all these different types of people tourists hawkers people on the street some some houseless people.

But also, you're in the middle of Times Square. It's 2022. And I swear to God, I saw maybe a Pakistani or an Indian family moving through Times Square with their luggage as if they just arrived or they're just leaving. I don't know. I could project a lot of things. I'm saying that everything is happening all the time with thousands of people in New York City.

And it's spectacular. I'm saying that everything is happening all the time with thousands of people in New York City. And it's spectacular. It is energizing. And there's something that kind of makes you feel part of something bigger than yourself, certainly, that being the city and that being the human race and that being the type of diversity that you see here. It's just great. And there's so much vital creativity going on here i mean just going to the whitney going to the birdland club going to you know tompkins square park just walking i just and i think i feel like i go through this every time i'm here but i'm now at a point where i can sort of see a finish line i can i can sort of see an end game, not my death, but my pulling back from everything I'm doing just to

try to enjoy life that doesn't involve compulsive engagement in stuff I think I have to do because I've set out to do it. I feel like I've done almost everything I set out to do. Some of it I enjoy, some of it I'm tired of, some of it I can take further. But no matter what, I definitely want to pull back in a few years. And the idea of having a place in New York to just take advantage of the city and then having a place somewhere else to just kind of live life in a relatively peaceful, undistracted way seems appealing to me. That being said, I could drop dead from a heart attack or lose my mind at any minute. So look, the book that Ralph Macchio is here to talk about,

or he's here to talk about his life, but he has this memoir, Waxing On, The Karate Kid and Me. That comes out tomorrow, October 18th. You can get it wherever you get books. The new season of Cobra Kai is now streaming on Netflix. And this is me talking to Ralph Macchio, who we all know. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization,

it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talked to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Are you self-employed? Don't think you need business insurance? Think again. Business insurance from Zensurance is a no-brainer for every business owner because it provides peace of mind.

A lot can go wrong. A fire, cyber attack, stolen equipment, or an unhappy customer suing you. That's why you need insurance. Don't let the I'm too small for this mindset hold you back from protecting yourself. Zensurance provides customized business insurance policies starting at just $19 per month. Visit Zensurance today to get a free quote. Zensurance, mind your business. All right, so wait. Now, tell me, because when we walked in here, you saw my Fender Telecaster over there. You have the Crossroads Telecaster. Yeah, yeah.

Is it an old one even? I think it is. I don't know if we ever got the year on it. You've had that thing sitting there forever and people have offered you money and you never did the research? No, no, no. I have done some research. I thought it was late 60s. I think it's early 70s, if memory serves. I need to have that time machine back to that conversation.

memory serves. I need to have that time machine back to that conversation. But yeah, because we were looking at it when we were doing the film initially and trying to find out, well, should we go Gibson? What kind of guitar? And I was a big Springsteen fan growing up. Still am. And so it was always Telecaster. So I went Telecaster. And plus I'm you know, Gibson's a big guitar for a little scrawny guy like me. The West Pauls, like the Black Customs, they're heavy. And like, what, a 335? That would have been huge.

Yeah. But I like the Springsteen connection. Yeah. He's a big telly guy. A big telly guy. All tellies. All tellies all the time. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. But it's interesting to me that there is this huge collector's market. It's not actually ruining the market for people that just are interested in finding a cool guitar right there everyone knows what they have now with the internet there's no finding that but really i don't think that the period of time that that telly is from is necessarily an important period in fender history yeah but because it's the crossroads of guitar right you would do a certificate and take a picture right Right. And then some of them, you know, when they sold it for $50,000. Right. No, listen, I've signed many guitar picks.

They bring them in, you know, collectors and stuff like that to sign that. Right, right. Lightning Boy, Martone or whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, it's fun, man. It's fun. But, yeah, arguably, you know, the 47 Ford, for the wax on wax off car that i got to keep after doing the original karate jesus most people just take it the the wardrobe yeah i took the

headband and the car uh and a new can i keep this suit that's what i get yeah yeah yeah so uh but uh more people ask about the uh the guitar yeah well i Well, I mean, that Ford, I mean, that's an old car. What is that from? Yeah, 47. A 47. I think that people who collect cars to drive on the street, it starts in the 50s. Yeah. Yeah, those are the cool ones.

Yeah, it's a rare guy that's going to be driving around in a 40-something. 47 Ford. Yeah. Exactly. 57 Chevy is the popular one. Yeah, that kind of shit, or 60s, and the Impalas and stuff. So you still have that car? Do you drive it?

It is being used in the Cobra Kai series. Oh, that's the one sitting there. It is the one. That's it? Yeah. Where's that shoot, though? Atlanta. Oh, so you drove it down?

You had it towed down? They had it towed down, and they helped get the old girl back up and running off the four flats. Yeah, it was sort of a metaphor for my big screen career. So I was sitting in storage about six, seven years ago, covered in dust on four flats. And now it is popular and it's got its luster back.

That's crazy. You know, it is quite a ride you've had. And my producer brought it to my attention. It's sort of like, you know, you've plugged along and you've done the work. Right. And you were a huge star when I was a kid. I mean, I think I was a little old. I don't know.

I think we're around the same age, but I think when you were popular, somehow it was more my brother, who's like two and a half years younger than me, that was like in the same zone. But I remember seeing The Outsiders. Yeah. But you always kind of worked. Yep. You know, but-

Somehow, you know, I mean, ups and downs and all. You know, I talked to Zabka. Did you listen to him? Yeah, yeah, yes, I did. I did. I did. I just spoke to him last night, and he said he had a great time, and I listened to it last year or whenever that was done.

I just couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe how well he matured that character. Yeah. Both of you. Well, you know, listen, these guys who create the Cobra Kai show had such a smart angle in to sort of how to

peel the layers off the villain and all of a sudden, you know, put the ex-hero in his midlife transition. and he's like, you know,

they're both empathetic characters, but they're not as, you know, defined in the way that you were when you were kids. There's a good guy and a bad guy. There's black and white. But now, because age has happened, both guys have a little bit of both in their own weird way. And that's truthful anyway.

Diving into there's a little bit of good, a little bit of bad in everybody. And the intentions of both are good. So that's why you root for both, even though your allegiance may change episode to episode. But he's his own worst enemy. Yes. And your ego is your own worst enemy. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

Right. You know, he's still hanging it on one kick that got him, you know, he's like the guy who won the high school football game who still talks about it i mean not so much in these seasons now or during season five but i can't believe it five seasons crazy yeah i mean i just can't i you know i was curious about it and i was just so taken by the age of you guys you know it's sort of it is the show and it is those characters but i think there's an honesty to how you're playing the age that we are at. Yeah, you have to. And even when we see in the script, it's time to go drop the gloves again.

It's like, okay, can we play this as we would as guys in our 50s and not pretend to be doing the rematch like we're 20 years old again? And how'd that go? Pretty well. Pretty well. Although they still want us to, you know. And the music, the music, the underscoring helps us with the youth and energy. And we work hard at it, you know. Yeah.

It's fun. And we've got these great kids in the show, which is wonderful. Yeah, yeah. They're awesome. Yeah, they all seem really good. Yeah. And it's a sweet show. But, like, when you look back at the, I the i mean this came did it come out of nowhere like when when people when when the offer came to you like we're gonna do this again you win

were you like what were you doing but it's uh in your life basically the three guys who write it pitched it they pitched it to billy first um i was the last guy. And I was probably the most resistant always. Really? To, you know, the Karate Kid film has become a piece of pop culture. Sure. And a piece of many people's childhoods. As a comic, I mean, that wax on, wax off thing is used in Punchline to this day. All the time.

Yeah, yeah. It's like the fallback. Just in case you don't have something fresh and new. You go to that. It's a home run. It's a fastball down the middle. thing is used in punchlines yeah all the time all the time yeah yeah it's like the fallback just in case you don't have something fresh and new you go to that it's a home run it's a fastball down the middle you always catch the plate but um you know it was like why mess with it you know that was your resistance the great pat morita is no longer with us in that miyagi character how do you move that forward and you know there it was risk-reward for me. So I sort of held it, and I write about this in my book.

I write about it. I held it to a certain standard and on a certain pedestal. So it was quite precious. Because it defined your young adult life. Yeah. And it sort of, it is a cultural touchpoint. I mean, it's like, it is, it is a cultural touch point. I mean, it's like,

you know, it's a piece of history. Yeah, it is exactly right. And it's a lot of, whether it's a, you know, someone in their,

a guy in his forties, a woman in her thirties, or someone in their sixties, or a kid who's 15. It's like, this movie meant something to me. So why am I going to fuck with that? And you didn't need the bread.

Yeah. We could always use a little more of that. But I somehow was able to string it all together over the years, even during the drier, leaner years. But when they came to me with this, I had just seen Creed, which was sort of the, how do you do the Rocky Balboa universe? How do you do the ninth Rocky? How do you do a Rocky universe and not be Rocky IX? And that was sort of kind of smart coming through the the eyes of apollo creed's okay yeah yeah sure so that kind of was was uh was relevant and it presently at the time and then so the concept

of taking okay who is johnny lawrence what happened to this guy after he took the crane kick to the face kind of thing and where did larRusso go now these these writers had um had a way into the universe but then when they spoke about the kids you know and Johnny's son who becomes my student and and Miguel uh uh is sort of the millennial Daniel LaRusso and my daughter being overprotected. Now I start seeing, okay, it's not just these two guys fighting about 1984. It's not about you. It's not only that. I mean, you need that and that's still a tentpole.

But it's going to honor the legacy as opposed to diminish it. Yeah, exactly. But still, who knew? Right. Well, right. Who knew? It started on YouTube. Yeah. And it was just, it blew up. Yeah. But when those conversations, in those conversations, when they were talking about character and

presenting to you, how many kind of pitch meetings did you have to go through? Were you able to have any input? To a point. You know, the beauty is they see the whole roadmap, the John, Josh, and Hayden. Yeah. And for Billy and I, you know, we see our characters that we've been walking in the shoes of and sitting in the skin since close to 40 years. At that time, say 34 years or whatever. So you're protective.

And I play the protagonist of the movie the hero quote unquote yeah whether you thought the kick was illegal or not or yeah who's the real jerk and who's the real bully we have to talk about that kick in general because that's like if there's if there's any breaking news in this book it's that that kick was nearly impossible to really get well it was yes yes as written as originally written but anyway so all that stuff. So the input was there from the onset with the guys, and they're very collaborative, and we're always talking that stuff through. But they get the tiebreaker because they're looking at the whole landscape. Yeah, right.

And so there has been push and pull throughout, but the longevity of the Cobra Kai series yeah is uh credit to them saying I know you're feeling this but this is that way because of what we have here and if we go here you know you could you could front load everything and front load all the guest stars and Cobra Kai is done in three seasons right but it has um you know it it's been, listen, it's been, this franchise has got some blessing from day one. And I credit John Avilson, Jerry Weintraub, Robert Kamen, who wrote the original script. Yeah. You know, they created a world that we go back to, and now these guys are adding more colors and layers. And the benefit also, too, is that, you know, unlike some shows, you can kind of let these kids grow.

Yeah, yeah. And you can get older. Yeah, well, the streaming service they give you, you don't have to do the two hour and 15 minute blockbuster movie. Right, but also just that, like, because they're at a certain age, there's no reason, they're not going to age out too quickly, because you can keep doing

karate classes. Sure. Because a lot of these things, there's two years between them. Right. And you got to believe that the guys- It's the welcome back Cotter thing. He's like 80 years old and he's supposed to be 60. And it's like, what happened?

I know. Yeah. So when you were a kid, you grew up where? Long Island, New York. Which was? Still home base. What town? I grew up in Dix Hills.

Oh yeah. I just, I play Huntington's. Yeah. Oh, yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.. Yes. Yes. I think I've seen the Marin brick. I've been there. I've seen the Marin brick. I play Huntington's. Oh, yes. Yes, I saw the Paramount. It's great. They give you a brick.

They give you a brick. I've been there. I think I've seen the Marin Brick. Have you seen the Brick? Yes. It's like they give you a commemorative. I've got two bricks. Yeah.

It's a good club. It's great. Yeah. You see rock shows there? The last I was there, I took my son to see, oh, God. It wasn't a rock show, though. No? It was, oh, man.

Comedy? No, it was like a rap, but a fun, upbeat kind of mainstream rapper. Oh, okay. I'm just blanking out on the name. Friendly. Friendly show. Friendly show for my son. Yeah, yeah.

How old is your son? He's 26 now. Oh, so that was a while ago. My daughter's 30, and she'll be angry that I just said that. No, she won't. But I'm only 32 32 so how this was done it's just it's crazy dude crazy you have these grown kids i know it is crazy but you you seem pretty i think one of the the things about you is you seem you know well adjusted and and

and also like i mean you look at some of the people that came up in your generation you never made any uh bad news right yeah i'm the anti-e true hollywood story as i allude to in the waxing on but um yeah i mean some of that is my sensibilities my upbringing my parents yeah how are you brought up my uh you know suburban um not not super italian but and my dad's half greek so i that makes me a quarter a quarter, I guess. That's a lot of food. That's a lot of food. Yeah, it's a lot of food, a lot of Mediterranean, a lot of olive oil. Yeah. But never, you know, it wasn't like Sunday gravy and the pasta and the seven fishes on Christmas Eve. It wasn't pretty Americanized.

Yeah. But- Everybody's from Long Island. You got the grandparents and the whole extended family. Extended family. Still home base. Cousins. Still home base, yeah.

Yeah, but it's not the massive, big Italian family, like in the traditional way. But fairly close, my brother and I, about two and a half years apart. And my wife and her family was somewhat like that as well. So that's, I think, for me, I've kept one foot in, one foot out of it all right but it seems like your priorities priorities like i i have a hit movie but if the mets are in the world

series i'm going back home you know and that's what i was doing in 86 um you know and uh you know once i got the outsider i came out to la so what yeah so like your brother's how much what's he younger two and a half years younger. And what's he do? He's, like, my dad was sort of self-made. My dad owned some laundromats, then bought a pump truck when he needed to pump out the overflowing septic tank, and then owned the biggest liquid waste company on Long Island, sold that. My brother took off on that.

He's more into water purifying. Oh, wow. And I'm the other guy. Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting that there are people that do jobs, and they may be great at their jobs, and they may be great at starting those kind of companies, and they seem necessary. But you realize that some people work to have the life they want to have.

Right. Not because, like, I love water pumps. Right, right. I love pumping sewage. That just happened when you got your first thing and it led to something else. Yeah, and then you just get a good business going and then you live the life you want. You don't have to love

your job. Right, exactly. We do. Kinda. Yes, true, true. It used to just work and not ask questions. Yeah, that's right. But I like that. But it seems that your sensibility is around family. I mean, you've been with your wife forever, right? Yeah, 35 years. How old were you

when you met her? Met her, I was 15. That's crazy, right? Crazy. It was, you know, and we dated platonically as, you know.

Like kids? Like kids for a couple of months and then we always remained friends. Yeah. You know, our first date

was seeing Scorsese's New York, New York with De Niro and Liza Minnelli. So you're kind of highbrow high school kid? Not necessarily. You just like musicals? I did like musicals. Wanted to be Gene Kelly.

I write that early on in the book, too. I watched musicals with my mom when I was a kid. Really? You know, the 4.30 movie in New York. What station was that? Channel 11. Yeah, yeah. You know? And it had the Gone with the Wind music as the theme.30 movie in New York. What station was that? Channel 11. Yeah, yeah. You know?

Yeah. And it had the Gone with the Wind music as the theme. Right, yeah. And then, you know, it would be, you know, whether it was Fred Astaire or it was, you know. You got to see all those old ones. Oh, yeah. I used to watch all that stuff. And your mom grew up with that shit.

Yeah, which, you know, it was like me, the Entenmann's chocolate donuts, milk home from school and watching movie musicals. East Coast. And Gene Kelly was the, you know, he was like the star baseball, football player, hockey player, and yet dancer. Yeah.

He was your guy. He was my guy at that young age. I mean, like five. Did you learn, yeah, but did you learn how to dance? I did a little bit.

Yeah? A little bit. You seem like a guy that could do a musical. I did a musical. Which one? I did a musical. Which one? I did a musical called How to Succeed in Business. Oh, that's right.

I really tried. Matthew Broderick did the Broadway version. It was at the revival. Right. And I did the national tour. But how long did that go on for? A year. By the time-

And this was 96, 97. Did you love it? I did love it. It was a little over a year for like 10 and a half months. I loved it. Then I started getting exhausted. The job. The job.

By then, you're moving like one week city to city. At first, you're doing four weeks in San Francisco and two weeks in Chicago. And it's like, it's Schenectady. Yeah, back on the bus. Are you taking a bus? No. I did of the I did get the

cushy yeah drove flew yeah flew flew drove yeah and I had my my daughter was

five four yeah my son was a house plant at the time you know it was like he added water and he just kept growing

and so that was it was an amazing year and so and so theater is in my my blood you know know, as well. And didn't you do a thing with De Niro? Yes, Cuban and Steady Bear. Yeah, that was 86.

What was that movie? What was that play about? It was about a Cuban-American drug dealer. De Niro played him on the Lower East Side of Manhattan. And I was his son. He had the long hair and the beard, right? Yep, he had the long hair. I remember.

It was right after the mission. Yeah. And I was his son who was a creative writer who was sort of experimenting with heroin at the time. And it was a father-son trying to reach his son. Like, don't do as I say, not as I do. Yeah. Kind of scenario. So how was that? Do you remember?

How old were you? I was just 24, 25. Okay, so you were a grown person. So I played 16. I played 16 for 37 years. That's the deal. That's my go-to. It's a good one.

Everybody laughs. So you got to go study heroin. I got to go study heroin. It was funny because De Niro was like, you know, it probably makes sense if you want to go to one of these. I said, man, I can probably pretend. Now, he wasn't telling me to shoot heroin, but to go to one of those houses. To hang i can probably pretend now he wasn't telling me to shoot heroin yeah yeah but to go to a you know uh one of those houses to hang out yeah yeah shooting gallery

so i went and i walked i walked those streets and went around miguel pinero was a playwright he wrote the play dark eye it was short ice short ice, yeah, yeah. Brutal. So one of the characters in the play, sort of my dealer, was based on Miguel Pinero. Okay. So this 16-year-old kid is aspiring to that part of the art. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah. And Burt Young was in the play as well. So it was a great, it was at the Public Theater.

It was amazing. Did it have a good run? It had a great eight-week run, a little 99-seating, and then we moved up to Broadway to Longacre. And it was, you know, it was the hottest ticket in town. And I had, you know, Crossroads was just finishing in the theaters, not that it lasted very long. Karate Kid 2 was opening, and the Mets were winning 108 games. And I'd come out of the Longacre Theater and be like, you know, Paul McCartney leaving Shea Stadium. That was that summer for me.

You know, that was like the, probably the biggest of it all. That was, you were at your peak? Just all of that happening, you know? Yeah, because I wonder, like, I wonder how that, it's interesting that you lived through that and somehow you did not, you kept your ego in check and you kept, you know, like you kept in your lane a bit. Yeah. Like you could have really. For the most part, I mean, we spoke about that earlier, but for the most part, it's a combination of, like I said, my upbringing, my sensibilities, and then my neuroses or my neurotic kind of knowing good and bad

and maybe being not taking the risk. You know what I mean? Well, you know your limitations. You know my limitations. And sometimes you have to go there. Sure. Certainly as an actor. Yeah.

It probably benefits to go down those paths. I was always, you know, I really had to get past my, you know, when I'm cool, when I was on The Outsiders, I think the guys wanted to get me a shirt that said, do not disturb, because that was always on my door. I would do the scenes. I'd go back, study my lines, and be ready. I was in a Coppola film. I can't mess this up.

So sometimes you just have to relax a little bit. And I've learned that over time. But it might have kept me out of trouble. Maybe it's time to go to the shooting gallery. Let's go to the shooting gallery and let's just get a bucket full. There we go. It's happened here, folks. It's going to happen.

Your amazing method star turn is yet to happen. It's now. Yeah, no, I'm just a kid in a candy store. So how does it happen? So you're there on in dick's hills yep and you you how do you get from there to the outsiders well i know that was one of those ones where he cast it all over the country right or no uh not not so much i mean i know he cast the big the big casting story with the outsiders is that he had all the francis had all the actors in the same room watching each other, which is, you know...

Well, that was during his, like, he was building a studio. Yes. He had one from, he had Apocalypse and one from The Heart. And Rumblefish, right? Rumblefish came after The Outsiders. That was a double banger in Tulsa. He shot them back to back. Right, I was just in Tulsa. Yeah.

And there's plaques all over the place for the outsiders. Yeah, I'm going to Tulsa for Waxing On. S.E. Hinton is going to do a conversation with me. No shit. For the book. We're doing a book tour event in Tulsa. And that's where she lives still? Yeah, she's still there.

Wow. Yeah. That's wild, man. But yeah, it's fun. I'm looking forward to that. Author to author. Now I could... But how I got to from Dick's Hills to commercials. Got a Bubble Yum commercial. A Bubble Yum.

I remember Bubble Yum. Yeah. It was okay. It was big, soft, chewy. It was pre-chewed. Yeah. Pre-chewed. You didn't have to do any work.

Yeah, yeah. And the flavor was gone in 15 to 20 seconds. Yeah. So you did a Bubble Yum commercial. Yeah, I. And the flavor was gone in 15 to 20 seconds. Yeah. So you did a Bubble Yum commercial. Yeah, I did two. I was called back for the reboot. You had the magic. Yeah, I did.

It was sort of like a song and dance with a group of kids. Musical skills. You know, just unpacking everything. And then first movie I auditioned for that I got was a film called Up the Academy, directed by Robert Downey Sr. Wow. That must have been trippy. And Downey Jr., as we know him, he was 14 at the time, and he was on set. Up the Academy, because Downey Sr. was sort of, I don't know that movie, but he was kind of a rebel.

A cult director in New York. Yes, yes. I mean, it was Greaser's Palace and Putney Swope and the 60s underground films. So what was that one? What was Up the Academy? Up the Academy was a Warner Brothers movie

that was about, written by, I think, Tom Patchett and Jay Tarsis. These guys were, you know, of the sitcom. Yeah, Tarsis became a big showrunner, right? Or an executive. Didn't run a network oh his daughter jamie tarsus yeah she's an nbc yeah yeah you know i got the part my character's name was chooch bombolazzi and i had to play everything like this he was a mob kid

yeah and then there was so his four misfits from different areas like the rich kid from connecticut the italian kid and the mob the afric in The Mob, the African-American kid. Was this his attempt at making a sellable movie? I think from my perspective and opinion, I don't have the intel, but I think he got the job. He was hired to direct this movie. It was kind of like a negative pickup at Warner Brothers for X amount of dough. And then they slapped a Mad Magazine comic. Because what happened is, once we

made the film, Animal House must have come out right before. I'm looking at the poster right now. So Mad Magazine produced it? No, they just slapped that on. After the movie was cut, it all of a sudden became Mad Magazine's Update Academy. And then they did some prosthetic-y, Alfred-y Newman mask, and they tagged the little piece

of footage at the end of it. Yeah. It's a real, it's an R-rated comedy about Weinberg Military Academy. It was just- Weird. It's how I, it was the first part, but from there, I got- Why, Ron Liebman was in it. Ron Liebman was in it, took his name off the credits.

Yeah. Anyway, and- Good actor, though, that guy. Hutch played great actor and hutch parker was in it to play he was parker stevenson's younger brother he wound up like running paramount for a while or anyway so so that from there abc was doing some talent search yeah i went in you know i had a little something under my belt auditioned and they me, they sort of signed me, put me on Eight is Enough.

Okay, yeah, right. So I was nine, was too many, and that was the end of that show. 22 episodes in. This is all, I'm rolling with all my good shit. How many episodes did you do? 20, 21 episodes, I think. So you made money?

Yeah, okay. You got your quotes up? Moved out to Santa Monica, stayed at, actually, I got that part, and two days later the actors went on strike. Screen Actors Guild went on strike

for three months. So I had an apartment and I was living back home calling the hotline for SAG to see if I was ever going to work again. Yeah.

And then from eight is enough after that with the Outsiders audition and that was the one, you know. Now, when you were living out here, did your mom come out

with you? No, I was just, you know, I was probably 20. Oh, so you were already old. with you? No, I was just, you know, I was probably 20. Oh, so you were already old. Old enough. No, I was 19.

I just have 19, 20. You got to do the Machio curve because I looked like I was 14. So that means I had to be 19 or 20. Yeah. And the day came out to set me up and such. Right. And they would go back and forth, but I wasn't a minor. Right.

So The Outsider, so you go audition for it. That was the big one. That was the one I wanted. I read it when I was 12. Yeah, of course. I wanted that part. Everyone had to read it, yeah. And that still holds a special place for me.

It's a beautiful looking movie. Yeah, fantastic. Steve Bureham's cinematography. Crazy. It's Coppola. But how'd that audition go? Were you in the room with everybody right away? Yeah, kind of. And I kept, and he was,

Francis was very much like, okay, you read Ponyboy, you read Cherry, you read Johnny, you read Dallas, and then switch, okay, now you read this and you read that. And it was anywhere from the guys in the cast to like Dennis Quaid's and Mickey Rourke and the Scott Baio's and the, you know, everybody was, you know. was anywhere from the guys in the cast of the like dennis quades and mickey rourke and and the scott bayos and the you know everybody was you know uh they were all coming in and out everyone was coming everyone wanted a certain age group yeah yeah and um but for me

i wanted to play johnny and johnny only johnny uh you know johnny kate that great character and because i felt he i you know i related to being being. When you read the book, he was the guy. Yeah, I just, I related to him being the sort of the runt of the litter. Yeah. The one that was protected. Yeah. He had a broken family life and I did not. I had the antithesis of that, but. So you had to act.

You had to challenge yourself. I challenged myself, but, and, you know, but there was just a connection. I just, he's a sympathetic character. So I sympathize with the guy. And so having that opportunity, I kept wanting to only read Johnny. And I talked to Francis about that, even to the recent times, talking about how I wanted that part. And he remembers me. Like when he said, okay, now I want you to read Ponyboy.

I said, yeah, but don't answer back. The guy directed The Godfather and Apocalypse. Who do you think? It's so funny. Youth is wasted on the young. Yeah, yeah. But, you know, and then they went around and I think he went to New York and brought a bunch of guys from the cast. Yeah.

Like Emilio Estevez and Rob Lowe. And they went to New York and brought Matt Dillon in who wound up being in both Outsiders and Rumblefish. Yeah. And I didn't go on that trip, so I thought maybe I didn't get the deal. Okay, yeah, yeah. But I found out later that I was in the bank already. Oh, you had you.

Yeah, I would have appreciated the call two months earlier. They forget to call about a lot of things. Or maybe they were just looking for something else. But in hindsight, it's all good. It was a great, it's a great one on the resume and I'm super proud. So that was like, I guess Matt Dillon's first thing was my bodyguard, right? Yeah, I think he had an over the edge. Oh, right.

Yeah, yeah. I should be his publicist. Look at that. Who knows that? But I don't think he knows that. Are you friends with any of these people? Yeah, we stay. The ones that are alive?

Yeah, I mean, I connect with Matt. Is is he still alive uh leif is still alive i haven't spoken to him in a while but you talked to dylan i uh i haven't in the last couple years but we connect because in new york we're both new yorkers and we've yeah you know uh i have such great respect for him and and his work and and rob low and you can see thomas howell and you know diane lane and who doesn't who doesn't love diane lane's fantastic yeah yeah always good amelio i was close with amelio for a while for a couple years after anytime i came out to la i would hang out you know hang out and that was like me being a hollywood guy in malibu right it was sort of like fantasy camp the other good kid right he's pretty good he is a good kid. Yeah, yeah.

But that must have been fun. Was Martin Sheen around? He was a little bit. I did a film. I did a TV movie with Martin called The Last POW. And I've known Martin through Emilio and Charlie. And it's- Good guys?

Yeah. They're good guys to me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Always mutual respect. They're totally different lives, totally different, yeah, yeah. Always mutual respect. They're totally different lives, totally different coasts, totally different everything. Sure. It's so funny that whole generation of those guys. Because even like Charlie Sheen, when you think about it, he was in Ferris Bueller, right?

Yes. Didn't he, for like a second, he was the kid who had been busted? The stoner. Yeah, yeah, the stoner. Yeah. There's that whole generation of you guys. But is Downey, he's among that age, right? Right. Maybe, yeah. Yeah, I, the Stoner. Yeah. There's that whole generation of you guys. But is Downey, he's among that age, right? Right.

Maybe, yeah. Yeah, I think so. A little younger. Just a little, no, probably around that. I mean, I was one of, oddly, I'm one of the older ones. Yeah. You know, on the outside, it was only, Swayze was the only one at the time older than me. And I played the youngest, smallest.

But that's been my thing. Yeah, yeah. I keep it. That's what I got. You know, those are the played the youngest, smallest. But that's been my thing. Yeah, yeah. I keep it. That's what I got. You know, those are the cards I've been dealt. But it's interesting, isn't it, though, because you were considered a child actor, but you really weren't a child actor. I didn't start.

I didn't get my first job until I was 17, turned 18. I guess that probably contributes to your ability to have some longevity. It's like a lot of those child actors, real child actors, they grow out of themselves. Yeah. Your look didn't change. You're already dug in. Yeah, but it became that double-edged sword.

I write about that as well. You know, when I was aging out of teenage stuff, but I didn't mature into a young leading man. Right. And I'm still waiting on that but somehow i stay working throughout well i mean i haven't seen c thomas howell in in in a long time yeah in things well he's he's doing his own i think he's doing music stuff now and uh and i don't want i know there's something acting wise happening for him right now but i don't want to be the guy to okay drop that

and tom cruise he still got his phone number i I think Tom Cruise, is he still working? He's doing okay. How's he doing? He just had a movie come out. I think it was kind of popular. He did okay. Yeah, right. Once again, just tapping into yesteryear. That's what we do, folks. That film did, you know, Top Gun, Maverick, it did everything right. You saw it? Yeah, that's

what I think. I didn't see it yet. Yeah, I think it does everything right. And it's interesting. In the press junkets for Cobra Kai, now we're hearing that. Like, these are the two examples of how to do it right. Oh, yeah. You know, one is a streaming series and one is a motion picture. So that's pretty cool.

A multi-billion dollar movie. Right. Yeah. But are you in touch with that guy? Not really. Normally. But, you know, I bumped into him a few times, and we just talk about how we kind of preserve pretty well.

He looked pretty good for our age. Yeah, that's true. That's true. And maybe, who knows, maybe he is. I ran into Ben Stiller at something who I'd never met in my life, and he came up and he was talking about uh how his kids love the cobra kite oh really and he's yeah you know because he's uh man it was just it's kind of cool he keeps up pretty well too he looks pretty yeah yeah yeah he's doing all right that mediterranean thing

he's got the jew thing you got the italian that's right i don't know how cruz is doing it yeah that's a secret that's some secret magic there yeah uh. Dark magic, maybe. But so after The Outsiders, Karate Kid, like Pat Morita was hilarious. He was a stand-up comic. Yeah, the hip nip. Right. Right? That's what he was. That's what they called him.

Lenny Bruce is my right about that. I write that in Waxing On. Yeah. It was Lenny Bruce's mother who gave him that. That was his manager, right? Wasn't she his manager? Perhaps. I think. Perhaps. And I know he didn't start until he was like 30. Yeah. gave him that uh that was his manager right uh wasn't she his manager perhaps perhaps and i know he didn't start till he was like 30 yeah you know into that and he was you know i i talk a lot about

this yeah yeah yeah and i talk a lot about that you know he was arnold from happy days for me yeah right yeah sure so i mean honestly when when i got the part of Daniel LaRusso and they were looking for who are we going to cast as the great Miyagi in this screenplay. And it was Toshiro Mifune was the Akira Kawasawa great act, seven samurai. That's what they were thinking? Yeah. They were thinking along those lines. But then it was – and they could not find Miyagi. And where was he?

He was right in front of everybody. He was all about happiness. And I walked in that day and I had it's so funny because now and I allude to this in like the second, second or third chapter where I talk about the irony of my initial insight into Pat Morita auditioning for Mr. Miyagi is, oh, this thing. I mean, Arnold from Happy Days. This is going to be like a – I had all these preconceived notions. And the irony is years later, I went through that same, oh, Ralph Macchio, yeah, he's that. You know, you get pigeonholed. Sure.

It's preconceived notions versus and then i walk in the room and he is instantly miyagi and i am instantly daniel russo and that yin yang kind of chemistry was just from the from the first meeting yeah you could just see the filmmakers and just say this is done yeah you know just the first time we read four four lines it was really it was just so easy and so natural. When you were brought in for it, is it just a straight audition with a bunch of other dudes? I said, no, there were a bunch of other dudes. It was in John Avilson's apartment. John Avilson directed Rocky along with the Karate Kid and other great films.

And he, it was his apartment, Upper East Side. I do explicitly go what that day was like for me. Yeah. And I walk in there. What was it like? It was, well, basically, it was, okay, they sent me this script called The Karate Kid. I was like, seriously, is this an after school special? How old were you, 20?

20, karate, 21. Yeah. The Outsiders was out there, so i had felt a little bit of street cred did it do well i did it i certainly did very well the outsiders was not you know you thought it was going to be the biggest hit in the world right great book and it did well but it did not it was too weird for people because of the way coppola conceived of it yeah perhaps it was a it was a romance to to it all but that was, you know, it was written by a 16-year-old girl,

and that's how she shot it. Was it shot all, like, how much was shot in a studio? No, most was shot in a practical. It was all in Tulsa? Yeah, all in Tulsa. There was one, you know, with the sunset.

The cinematography was crazy. Yeah, the sunset scene with me talking, you know, the Robert Fox. And Rumblefish 2, huh? Yeah, yeah. All right, so anyway. All right, so you get the script.

So I get the script, and the title is just like, I joke about it in the book where I say, God, this is such a bad title that if the thing ever works, I'll probably have to carry it for the rest of my life. And Jerry Weintraub, the producer, would say to me all the time when I complain about the title, he goes, It's a terrible title, which makes it a great title. Yeah. Anyway, I took the train into Manhattan from Long Island, you know, studying my part. And I go into Avilson's apartment, waiting my turn. And who's there?

Who's there? No, it's just John. Just John and a big JVC video camera. In the hallway, I think I recognized years later, it was John Cryer, a couple other people that were, you know, and they were all, a lot of people were making fun of the title and it was interesting. I write about this. Having the script that weekend, preparing for the audition, still auditioned for the

guy who directed Rocky, so it was a major league, you know, ballpark, you know. But I remember being kind of offended that people were making fun of the title when I made fun of the title. Sure. But it's almost like when I write, it's like when someone says, I can make fun of my brother, but you can't. Exactly, yeah. And so that was starting to happen right away, which is kind of interesting.

I wonder if that's some subliminal, like I was taking control of it. You know, I don't know. Oh, that's interesting. I wonder if that's some subliminal, like I was taking control of it. You know, I don't know. Oh, that's interesting. I might be adding more to it and making myself sound smarter. Well, no, I think it was probably like, you know, you, you know, by the time you got to Manhattan and decided you're going to, you're going to go for it. Yeah. So then I started falling in love. Right. Right. So you had to, you know, you had to frame it in your head as something worth doing. Yeah, exactly. So I auditioned for, and John just talked, and my audition you can see on YouTube. He posted it. Oh, you did.

And he intercuts it with the first time Pat Morita read. And it's really interesting, and I write about this, and then you could have the visual to click on and see the first time I ever spoke Daniel LaRusso's words. And interestingly, it's kind of felt like the movie is. It's not like, oh, that's where I started and I went to here. Yeah. It sort of was natural organic from the up front. I put a little bit of East Coast bravado into him and a little feistiness. Yeah.

And John was just holding a big ass JVC camera kind of thing. Like a VHS recorder. Yeah, VHS recorder. And just reading with me as he's holding the camera in his hand. He did that. He had the camera all the time. You go out to lunch with him, he would be shooting stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And, you know, he said to me, basically, he goes, you know, I can't make final decisions right now, but if I were you, I'd start taking some karate lessons. I was like, this is a pretty good sign on a first date, is it not? And I came out of that building and I literally didn't know what to do with myself. That I didn't even take a cab. I think I ran all the way down to Penn Station. And I couldn't call anybody because I didn't have a cell phone. It's 1983. Get into a phone booth.

Yeah, right. Like Superman. And you're who you are, so you didn't have a cell phone it's 1983 get into a phone booth yeah right like superman and you're who you are so you didn't immediately go out and start ruining your career exactly go down to alphabet city yeah so so that's um you know that's sort of how it happened and then i flew out to la and went more uh hoops to jump through before but it's when pat marita got in the room with me is when all of a sudden it was a sign off. And then it was all the options were picked up and it was a go. Pat passed that you know what is left there is one of these classic sort of Hollywood pairing that transcends you know time and place

really that you two guys I mean people will remember that and they'll be around forever yeah it is it is a exactly that it's framing of a time a piece of pop culture a piece of you know and I'll get I mean it sounds sometimes I tell these stories and I hesitate because they sound, not in telling them, but it's people get it like, okay, enough already. meant, what that Daniel LaRusso character meant to them growing up, what not having a Mr. Miyagi in their life or the Mr. Miyagi they had in their life that they no longer

have in their life or their dad and them would watch this movie or, you know, and what it got people through. And it's, you know, it's a popcorn karate movie, but yet it worked on that human level. I don't know. But is it, though? Because it is about, you know, a kid, you a kid trying to become or learning how to be a good person. And navigate life, fish out of water. All that, yeah.

Bullying mentors and having that person to help you. It's one of those stories that would resonate with a lot of lost, troubled people or people that had a certain amount of heartbreak around their family situation. So it really has resonated. Yeah. I mean, I look at that. I look at The Outsiders, as you mentioned. Even My Cousin Vinny is another one of those

that kind of still hang in there. I just saw that recently. Yeah. It's a late-for-dinner movie. Yeah, I mean, I was flipping through, and I'm like recently. Yeah. It's a late for dinner movie. Yeah. I mean, I was flipping through and I'm like, I'm not sure I ever watched this whole movie. And it was pretty close to the beginning. Yeah.

And it was kind of funny. Because, you know, you start, as all these people get older, like not Marissa so much, but like with Pesci, you forget that he was kind of, he could do this lighthearted kind of goofy shit. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I mean?

No, he's very, you know. He's coming back. Yes, he is. He is. They all come back if what I mean? No, he's very, you know. He's coming back. Yes, he is. He is. They all come back if you could get him. If you give him a good role. Like, I'm done.

I'm retired. You know what? Maybe not. Yeah. You got along with him on that set? Yes, very much so. Very much so. He would come.

I met him when I was doing Kubernitz Teddy Bear. Eccentric, I think, is what I wanted. Yeah, he is eccentric. And he's quiet. You know, he's to himself. You know, everyone is, you know, you just go everybody does a pesci impression or whatever uh but uh

for the most part you know he's very yeah quiet but he would at first met i first met joe when i was doing cuban as teddy bear with deniro yeah and um you know and my cousin minnie wasn't an easy get for me because that was sort of the beginning of the downturn. Well, let's talk about that. So you go from the Karate Kid and so you shoot this movie and then it blows up. Right. And you're like the hottest kid in Hollywood at 21, 22. 22 at that point, yeah.

So you're out here? Do you buy a house? No. Once I did The Outsiders before the karate, I moved back to New York. Like the apartment I rented was probably for two years on and off. Okay. The eight is enough apartment. Yeah, yeah.

And then I spent a year just, you know, studying acting because I figured maybe I should learn how to do it. Yeah. I sort of got the parts first and then figured out the craft. Who did you study with? I studied with Lynette Gonzalez, who is Milton Gonzalez's ex-wife. In New York? No, here at the Beverly Hills Playhouse. Okay. out the crap. Who'd you study with? I studied with Lynette Gonzalez, who was Milton Gonzalez's ex-wife. In New York? No, here at the Beverly Hills Playhouse

for, you know, six months on an off-scene study. Yeah, and that helped? It did. It did help because I actually brought in

the scene from The Outsiders before my audition to sort of, you know, get some feedback. Yeah, yeah. And that was, yeah. Oh, God, you're

taking me. It's fun to go down this this open these cans yeah and close tight for a while yeah i mean when you did that though that kind of scene work with somebody i imagine was very intense and and yeah it was you know it was it was a way to um well here's the story see now you're doing a great job because now i remember exactly how this this happened i auditioned for fredos, who is Francis Coppola's still producer and casting director. He cast American Graffiti and The Outsiders. When you look at those two alone.

Big cast, yeah. Not to mention The Godfather and Apocalypse and everything else. But I read for him and I didn't get a callback. And then the movie fell off and they weren't making it. They were going to make it and then they weren't going to make it. Right. Then when it came back and they were recasting again, I put, that's when I went to acting class. I was like, I need, so I brought in the scene that I didn't get, you know, the movie didn't happen. So no one got the part.

But so it was, so I, and the feedback was that I wasn't kind of there yet. And I did not have, you know, I was saying the stuff and I had the right look, but maybe not enough of the gravitas or what should be underneath. Yeah. So I took that to heart and started. Yeah. So then when I went back in, I mean, it's not as simple as this, but I'm giving you the broad strokes.

Yeah. And then, you know, as history would say, I got the part. What was the key for that? I just think it was just about, you know, living in it for that character and not just because I had the look of Johnny Cade and I had the dialogue doesn't mean I had the. But what did she teach you to connect with what you needed to connect with I think um I mean some of it might have just been taking the pressure off performing the audition right right right right behavior yeah like behavior and listening yeah I probably was so amped up that I was just doing the lines and playing the sadness or playing the right the darkness as opposed to the behavior part of it.

And that's what the scene study helps you with is just, you know. And was that the last class you took? I said, I got that part. I don't need this anymore. I'm done. I did it. Not true. Not true.

I did it. So, okay. So you do Karate Kid. And like what happens when it just kills? Well, it just, you know, yeah, I talk, there's a chapter in the book called The Crane Takes Flight, which is sort of my, the beginning of the afterlife of, you know, there's the making. The book is kind of broken up into three parts. The making of the movie. Yeah.

You know, where I get to tell all those stories of how things happen. Then there's the afterlife. Yes. You know, and then there's the lessons of that are still giving back today. Yeah. afterlife yes you know and then there's the lessons of that are still giving back today yeah um um so that was you know that was all encompassing you know with going to europe and doing the opening of the film there yeah and then to uh you know karate kid part two well tell me the story about how that you know in the script this crane kick oh well here's the thing. Yeah, yeah. That story. So the crane kick was written as, you know, his leg is injured. So he's got to not use that leg at all.

Yeah. This is the best of my memory. Any of this stuff, you know, like when you're writing something from 34, 35, 38 years ago. Yeah. It's really about, okay, this is what I'm remembering of these moments. Yeah. It's really about, okay, this is what I'm remembering of these moments. Yeah.

But for me, it was written that he had the injured leg, so he had to be able to throw the crane kick with one leg, throw it, and land back on that leg. Yeah. That's not what it ended up being. Right. So it was about how are we going to do this? But it didn't exist in martial arts. It didn't, no. It's a exist in martial arts. It didn't. No.

It's a conception of the writer. And Robert came. I wrote his exact words. He goes, it was cinematic. I made it up. Yeah. You know, and he made up something beautiful that you could mention almost anywhere on the street. Yeah.

It's like, you know, universal. Yeah. So, you know, it was about how are we going to do it. Are you going to do it with wires? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so at one point I was like, oh, wow, this might not work. Yeah, right. I mean, it wasn't like the movie's a disaster. We can't make this.

It was sort of like, okay, it was more in John Avilson's hands, the director, and the stunt coordinator, Pat Johnson, at the time of finding the best way to achieve. Yeah. You know, because it is cinematic the time of finding the best way to achieve. You know, because it is cinematic. The arms are out. Open your arm. That's what everybody mimicked. You know, it's, you know, when they came out of this. People would do that just for a laugh.

Yeah, right. It's still done. At the MMA, you'll see someone do the pose. And it's on Twitter and Instagram the next day. But so this guy, Daryl Vidal, who's Pat Morita's stunt, he did the Pat Morita crane when Daniel LaRusso sees it for the first time in a sort of fat suit. And he was up there doing it. And sort of he was able to execute the kick and switch his weight so quickly that it almost you never thought that he landed on the bad leg at all right and so that was i mean it's it's not that brilliant a fix but it's sort

of what was done so how could you fluidly execute yeah seamless yeah going up throwing it and landing back and um so it because it was written that he never right the base leg was the kick leg and the base leg right which kind of was awkward when anyone tried it right you know and that that's what became of it and then it was about okay how can i make this off and we just kept working on and working on it and we did it and we shot it a zillion different ways wow and it really just played in low, a low wide angle. So what happens, it becomes this huge success

and now, like, how do you handle your life? Yeah, I, you know, from there, I mean,

it was, it was, you know, Karate Kid Part 2, I did Karate, the busiest year is probably Crossroads, Karate Kid Part 2.

Yeah. And then the Cubanist Teddy Bear on Broadway. So those, one, two, three. And that's when you walk out of the stage door. Yeah, stage door and everybody's all crowded around.

Well, you had De Niro as well. Sure, sure. So let's not. I'm not taking credit for all those people. They weren't all holding their hands up. But they weren't all doing that. No, no. But, yeah, so that was, you know, it's a bit of a blur yeah

to me and then you know then I got married in 87 okay I think Tom Cruise married Mimi Rogers the same weekend so that was cool because no one even knew that I got married right and also I guess you didn't go to each other's

wedding no we did not my wedding was very much just family and friends. It was not, you know, I had, I had honestly no one from the entertainment business. Long Island. Long Island. Yeah. How do you get there from here? Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, that's how I, and that's the balance I read about that. You know, there's the balance of my life. keeping you know one foot in and one foot out and there were times that um you know it wasn't always by design um it seems like i'm well adjusted and i planned it that way but there were certainly year in the 90s and early 2000s when things were dry and i'm having to you know provide for the family. And I have two young kids. And all that stuff was, you know, challenging at times.

How did you adjust? Did you take jobs you didn't want? Not many. Really nothing that I'm like, oh, God. You know, that was terrible. Yeah, yeah. I mean, some of them do come out that way. But it wasn't the intention going in.

I jumped behind the camera, did some writing, shot a couple of short films. How'd that go? Because Zafka did that as well. Yeah, exactly. Were you guys in touch around that? No, it was after we reconnected. I talk about this, too. We went on 20 years without seeing each other.

And then when Pat Morita passed away, we went to his funeral memorial and I spoke there and it was, you know, it was kind of wonderful seeing Billy there and I hadn't seen him. He was always, you know, we were for the first time on the same side of the mat, if you will, is what I write. And from that point forward, there was just it meant something significant to me that he was there because not many people were at Pets. It was in Vegas. And it wasn't like everybody from the film was there. I mean, that's something they had something else in Los Angeles that was more widely intended.

Right. But so so, you know, that's when we started talking about our love of filmmaking and that side of it. And he was doing his film Most, which was nominated for an Oscar. And I was doing a film called Love Thy Brother. They got into Sundance and it was sold to HBO. Wow. You know, so that was about being creative and telling stories,

but not having the money to make a picture. But also learn. And I would show it to Coppola and I would show it to John Avildsen and get some notes. And, you know, I had a great, you know, I had a great resource with some of these filmmakers. Did you learn? How's your karate?

About the same as my guitar. Yeah. I make enough to fake it. Yeah. No, listen, I dive deeper into it now with the martial arts. Yeah. Since everything hurts more. Oh, God.

Yeah, no kidding. But doing the katas and now that okinawan classic i mean that's that's good stuff to do physically you know it's almost like that tai chi yeah version of just moving your body and performing so i i i want to continue that okay um you know everything you know it takes longer to just get up in the morning man but it's you know. Do you have a trainer? Yeah. I mean, I have a trainer that I work with in New York, just kind of my wife and I. We just, you know, it's not hard. You know, it's injury prevention.

I like it. You're just a Long Island guy. I'm a Long Island guy. And you had a good time doing Entourage and all this other shit that you did? Yeah, that was great. Entourage was a great, you know, that was the first time I ever played myself. And it turned out to be, and that was a good episode. Pretty funny. Yeah, it was the Playboy Mansion episode.

It was, you know, 16 hours at the Playboy Mansion. It was not the worst day at the office. Yeah. And it was funny, at that time I wasn't working much. Yeah. And I said to my wife, you know, when I got the pitch of what it was, and I said, you know, but it's like the Playboy Man. You know, I'm not good of a Long Island guy. I wanted to check with her first.

And she's like, just get out of the house. Do something. Get them. Go. Just go. Yeah. She's the best. So what about Springsteen?

I've seen him, you know, my gosh. I've never met him. You haven't? It's really interesting. Did you go see him on Broadway? I did twice. Twice. Well, first I got a serious something.

It was a charity, a serious special performance. So I got in on that after I bought my $1,500, $1,800 tickets. And then I went a few weeks later. So one of the shows Patty was in and one she wasn't so I got to see a little differentiating of that and I saw him at first

at the LA Sports Arena out here back when I was doing Eight is Enough I went with Betty Buckley who was on Eight is Enough and I think our first or second assistant director

or something like that and went to see Springsteen and that was when I was bit. What tour was that? That was The River. But I had Born to Run at that point, you know, from high school. It was the album everyone was talking about. I have the book.

I haven't read it. And Here I Am is promoting a book and I have to read it. I have it. I interviewed him. I interviewed him around the book. I went out to his house. Right. It was crazy.

Out to the ranch. It was something. Because, like, you know, I love the guy but i'm not crazy a fan right so it gave me uh just enough distance yeah yeah yeah cool to sort of treat him like a person right right good and there's a very funny moment in there because i go i want to i'm gonna go listen to you should because i totally am because you read the book and you really see who he is and it's it's it's heavy, man. I mean, he's a depressive and he's hard on himself and his upbringing was rough. Yeah.

But I just remember I didn't know how I was going to get in with the guy or who I was going to be talking to. Because you know that whole thing, he's got a whole bit he does. Like, oh yeah, me and the boys. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Whatever, right? You have to get past that. Try, how are you going to get past that?

How long is it going to take? But I went out there and it was like the week before Christmas or something like around there right and I'm waiting

and he's got this he's got the house and then he's got the studio so I'm out there and I'm just waiting for him and he comes I see him walking down

from the house he's a little guy holding his book you know and he walks in and we got two chairs set up with the mics my producer had set up chairs so I go so what's going on with the house. He's a little guy holding his book. You know, and he walks in and we got two chairs set up with the mics. My producer had set up chairs. So I go,

so what's going on with the house? A lot of Christmas stuff, cooking, presents, family. And he goes, correct.

And I'm like, I want to talk to that guy. Let's get that guy. Correct. Right. And I'm like, and I just went in and it was good.

It was present and it was connected and it was exciting. Yeah. No, I got to listen to it. Because he was talking to another musician who I know, Tal Wilkenfeld, a woman who's a bass player, genius, young, who was talking to Bruce about asking him questions about how to handle press.

And he's telling her. And she goes, well, you talked to a friend of mine, Mark Maron, and he goes, he pushed. That's good. Yeah. That's what you want to hear. Sure. Yeah, I did push.

But this book is going to be fun for people to read. And like the bits and pieces I got out of it, just the story about the kick, I was excited. It really felt like, does anyone know this? Right, right, right. Well, since hearing it from the, you know, not that it was a hurricane, but I'm from the eye of the hurricane. Sure.

From the moment getting the part throughout and here with, you know, its relevance today, it's kind of awesome. And, you know, when I talk, nobody, you know, it's a celebratory reflection. It really is. And the only person who gets thrown under the bus in this book is me by me. Right. You know, in a way. And it kind of made sense for me because it really is the gift that keeps on giving.

And it's very specific to the Daniel LaRusso of it all what that yeah has been like yeah for me and what and what what I've gained from it in life and how I've had to um you know navigate certain elements or or wanting to do certain things over not that there are many examples but there are a couple of do-over examples that that I want to that I should I shed some light upon. And so that gets more personal, and I enjoyed doing that through that lens. And I think that's... So by writing about those, we don't have to talk about them

because you get people to buy the book, but you don't have regrets around them. And by writing about them, did you put them into a different context? No, I mean, it was more about, like I took a few examples of that, It was more about like I took a few examples of that, you know, where I would say be a little bitter about being tied into the second sequel. Sure.

That was a struggle to make a good script, which never achieved itself. Yeah. footnote season 5 of Cobra Kai is using that chapter of the original franchise and blowing up great stories so the lesson here is even the shortcomings from the Karate Kid universe are bearing fruit and handing off gifts and it's all about

and also the fact that you can call it a universe it's almost the Karate Kid cinematic universe I mean arguably let's you know I'm, I want to see the Miyagi origin story. Who was this teenager? Yeah, right. Right. And also, like you said, you wrote in the book that they're going to do a musical.

They are. Well, listen, we'll see how far it gets. But you don't got a piece of it, do you? I don't got a piece. Listen, I am I when I take when I put the headband on, I no longer own myself. This face only as soon as I put the headband on, it's somebody else's property. But it's, you know, and so so looking at, you know, even scenes that I get to do in Cobra Kai from a different perspective of a scene that's in the original film that I wish i had another shot at oh right that's a do-over moment right or maybe the way i reacted a certain way when i met a high profile movie director actor because i was a little

bitter that i had to be stuck in part three when i wanted to do another movie you look back on things like that where like how do you frame that now for yourself i frame it as it's just it had to happen because i've gained this much from it. I don't look at it as like, God, if I only got that movie. There's a really good story about a terrific movie made by Sidney Lumet, one of my favorite directors who I got to meet. And I don't want to say what it is, but the actor was nominated. And I know I was in contention for that, but couldn't do that movie based on the option pickup. So I was, you know.

That's rough. That's part of show business. Right. That's part of it. And so when I was with someone else of high regard in the industry, I was a little bit of, you know, I'll look back at that and say maybe I was a little bratty. I was a little negative. you know, I'll look back at that and say, maybe I was a little bratty. I was a little negative. And it's, it's sort of, I'd like telling that story mainly because it's, uh, you know, I learned something from it going forward. So if a young actor reads this or a young person reads

this, uh, or there are some of one, it's just information about me that someone didn't know. And this is not deep and dark. It, none of this is, but it's just a self-reflection at a time where youth might've been wasted on the young. You're looking at your peers. Show business is show business. You're looking at guys becoming superstars. And you

probably felt yourself being judged a certain way. It's about navigating all of that. Yeah, but you had to find peace with that and have know, and have the career you had. And then out of nowhere, you know, this amazing thing comes and you're old enough to appreciate it and realize that through a lifetime of having a relationship with this character

in this movie, that it has made an impact and it continues to make an impact in a very sweet way. Yeah. That in a way, the story of, of the karate kid and how it keeps sort of going is, is actually, you know, who, who cares what anyone thinks about it because it has an impact on people's lives in a real way. I think every movie wants to think they can do that, but a lot of movies are just movies. Yeah. Absolutely right. And that people don't have a lifetime relationship with. It's crazy. Yeah. No, it're absolutely right. And that people don't have a lifetime relationship with. Yeah, yeah.

It's crazy. Yeah, no, it's very unique. Very unique experience. And that's why I sat down and started writing. You say, it's a unique experience. Yeah, well, good.

And that's why it's there. Congratulations. Thank you, man. I'm excited. Good to talk to you. I appreciate the time. You got it, Mark. Thank you.

There you go. Ralph Macchio, the book, Waxing On. The Karate Kid and Me comes out tomorrow, October 18th. Get it wherever you get your books. The new season of Cobra Kai is now streaming on Netflix. Watch that. And could you do me a favor? Just hang out for a second.

Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. bonus podcast episode where I talked to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative.

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Okay, folks, listen, if you heard me talk last week with the director of 2Leslie, Michael Morris, you noticed it was a short talk, only about 20 minutes or so, but there's another half of that talk that we had to cut for time and we'll be posting it for full Marin listeners this week. The full Marin and all WTF plus subscriptions are now completely ad free that goes for archive shows and current shows. So if you want WTF as a totally ad free experience, sign up for WTF plus now, where you also get access to the first 500 episodes, which are not available on any other podcast platforms. Go to the link in the episode description to sign up or go to WTFpod.com and click on WTF Plus. I'm going to

London today. And I've got shows at the Bloomberry Theater in London. I've got a show at Vicar Street in Dublin next week, and I think the London shows are sold out other than the David Baddiel live podcast. Go to wtfpod.com slash tour for ticket info. I'm looking forward to seeing everybody out there. When I get back from Ireland, I'm in Oklahoma City at the Tower Theater

on Wednesday, November 2nd, Dallas, Texas at the Majestic Theater on Thursday, November 3rd. San Antonio at the Tobin Center for the Performing Arts for two shows on Friday, November 4th. And Houston at the Cullen Theater at Wortham Center on Saturday, November 5th. Then I'm in Long Beach, California at the Carpenter Performing Arts Center on Saturday, November 12th. Eugene, Oregon at the Holt Center for the Performing Arts on Friday, November 18th. And Bend, Oregon at the Tower Theater on Saturday, November 19th. In December, I'm in Asheville, North Carolina at the Orange Peel for two shows on Friday, December 2nd. And then Nashville, Tennessee, I'm at the James K. Polk Center on Saturday, December 3rd. And my HBO special taping is at Town Hall in New York City on Thursday, December 8th. Go to WTFpod.com

slash tour for all dates and ticket info. So as I said earlier, I love playing with Jimmy Vivino. He's been very good to me and he's been very supportive of my guitar playing and he's taught me a lot and he lets me play with him it's it's fucking it's unbelievable it's like almost in a way it's all i ever wanted to do uh and we we got to do it you know last wednesday with jimmy vaughn too but here's a little bit of me and jimmy vivino playing together jamming a bit on his song you've got an itching for it back when he was on the show this is in uh 2014 oh we'll do i'll do you i'll play your song we'll debut a song of mine that's that hasn't been uh it's can i handle it yeah sure you can it's like a jimmy reese all right except there's a little one little thing it's a yeah you can play the fills you'd be the second guy You'd be the second guy. A. It's A? Yeah.

Sometime you need a little something. Then you need a little something more. Nothing you can buy at your five and dime or your local convenience store. You got a itching for it. You got a itching for it, boy. You got a itching for something. Itching you just can't scratch. Itching you just can't scratch Might be a little bit of moonshine Might be a little railroad gin

Might be a little bit of China white Off of a boat that's just coming You got a itching for it. You got an itching for it. You got an itching for something, boy. Itching you just can't scratch. Sometimes you do a little evil And you call your backdoor friend Every time her husband's slipping out

You go sliding in You got itching for it Yes, you got itching for it. Yes, you got a itching for it. Man, you got a itching for something, child. Man, you just can't scratch it. Scratch one out for me. Go. guitar solo Well, it might be a little piece of candy

Might be a little piece of cake When your nose is open and your mouth go dry There's only so much you can take You've got an itching for it Yes, an itching for it yes an itching for it you got a itching boy you just can't scratch yeah sometimes

life is like a card game and we gamble from day to day sometimes you hold a winning hand but you ain't got no dough left to play you gotta itching for it you gotta itching for it You got a itching for it. You got a itching for something, boy. You just can't scratch it. You got a itching for it. You got a itching for it. You got a hmmm. You gotta... You gotta...

You gotta... Yeah.