WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1392 - James Austin Johnson

Episode Date: December 15, 2022

James Austin Johnson figured out at a very young age that he could do impressions. When he got older and started doing comedy, he wanted to figure out a way to do them that didn’t feel like a Las Vegas lounge act. Now, as the preeminent Trump mimic and SNL’s resident impressionist, James tells Marc how he figured out how to hone in on the people he was imitating and how Covid isolation led to his Trump breakthrough. They also talk about James’s early years as a child actor in conservative Christian media productions. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Death is in our air. This year's most anticipated series, FX's Shogun, only on Disney+. We live and we die. We control nothing beyond that. An epic saga based on the global best-selling novel by James Clavel. To show your true heart is to risk your life.

When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive. FX's Shogun, a new original series streaming February 27th, exclusively on Disney+. 18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. It's a night for the whole family. Be a part of Kids Night when the Toronto Rock take on the Colorado Mammoth

at a special 5 p.m. start time on Saturday, March 9th at First Ontario Centre in Hamilton. The first 5,000 fans in attendance will get a Dan Dawson bobblehead courtesy of Backley Construction. Punch your ticket to Kids Night on Saturday, March 9th at 5 p.m. in Rock City at torontorock.com. all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fuck nicks what's happening i'm mark maron this is my podcast wtf welcome to it uh james austin johnson is here and it's weird with this guy hilarious guy great impressionist but nice guy smart guy interesting story but someone

forwarded me that jimmy fallon clip of him doing bob dylan the three different bob dylans or four and i didn't really realize that it was the same guy who did trump on snl but i don't really watch snl and then when i was in nashville I was on stage and I was going back and forth with Chad Ryden, my Prince's chicken experience. You know, apparently James Austin Johnson was there, as was another guy and Chad and Ryan Singer to witness my face burning. But I don't remember them. And I don't know if that's just because of the heat of the peppers annihilated a part of my memory a sort of spice related

blackout which is totally possible but apparently we hung around most of the day me and James Austin Johnson and a couple other fellas and I went back and I was watching those Trump videos he did just the ones when he was on the street and they're fucking hilarious hilarious so I talked to him when i was in new york and it was a completely surprising conversation to be

to be quite honest with you in the sense that he's got a you know he's got an interesting story a unique story a story that deals with jesus anytime jesus can find his way into a story that isn't his, that's the whole goal of it, isn't it? Jesus is designed to infect. And James was infected with Jesus. But it was good. It was like one of those positive bacterias, one of those good ones, one of those gut bugs that you want to keep the Jesus. Folks, if you're a WTF Plus subscriber, listen up. You got an email from us today, and if you didn't get a chance to read it, here's the gist. We sent you all individualized promo codes so you can refer a friend to WTF Plus, and they get a month for free. That's any tier of WTF Plus. Refer as many people as you want, because starting

in January, we're going to tally up all the referrals and the listener with the most will get a gift from us along with a shout out here on the show. So check your inbox for the email with your special referral code inside. Who doesn't want me to shout out their name on the show or give you a gift? I don't even know what the gift is going to be. Maybe I do. Maybe I know exactly what it is. Maybe it's in my house. Maybe it's a new car. It's not. Not a new car. The special. So we're getting right into the cutting of this thing.

And I don't know if you're in the kind of job where if you do your job at the end of the day, you can just watch yourself do your job from an outside vantage point. It's not great because you just want to do a good job. You want to be able to live with the job you're doing or certainly maybe even like the job you did. But when you do TV, it's taken me a long time, TV or movies, to sort of be able to watch myself with enough distance and enough comfort to not be like, oh, fuck, I fucked it. So now I don't watch myself and think like, oh, man, god damn it. I watch myself and go like, that was okay.

That was okay. Oof, that one, well, what are you going to do? One out of three. Oh, look at that. Okay. Two out of four. Ooh, that was okay that was okay oh that one well what are you gonna do one out of three oh look at okay two out of four oh that was good so it becomes sort of like that but then if i watch it again it's sort of like all right i was in it the vibe was right so when i first watched part of the cut the other day from fine arts my director it. It's his name, Stephen Fine Arts. You know, within 15 minutes, I was like, man, I just was, I was like,

I was not happy. I wasn't unhappy. I just thought like, it's intense. It's like, I can't, I just, you know, I'm not, it's not, I'm going too fast. What's it? But I just couldn't process it because I just, it was too close.

It was just on, it was Thursday. I wasn't ready. But then I watched it yesterday and I was like, you know what? It's all there. It's solid. Let's make it just sing. Let's just tweak it. We got to get it down a few minutes. Let's figure it out. Let's smooth it out. But I was definitely in the zone. I was where I needed to be. And I was able to watch it and make notes and make decisions. That's progress. You know, when you don't automatically think you did a shitty job or you don't think that you're not, you know, good enough. And you kind of live with that every day with your job. You know, that's bad no matter what your job is.

You know, ultimately's bad, no matter what your job is. You know, ultimately, nothing matters. It's all going to go away. It doesn't end well for anybody. Give yourself a fucking break, he said to himself. Right? Right?

Right? Ooh, man. Oh, man. Oh, man. Cats are okay. Fucking Charlie Beans. Fucking Sammy Smushy. Fucking Buster Kitten. God damn cats.

I had the house cleaned yesterday, and I just watched. I was sitting at the counter having coffee, and I watched Charlie Beans climb up on the counter opposite me, get into the sink and pee in it. Could have been worse. Could have peed someplace else that wasn't as convenient as a sink. Just peed in the sink, looking right at me. All right. I don't think there's anything wrong with him. We'll see if it happens again. I'm not sure why he did it. It had just been cleaned. Maybe he was like,

this doesn't smell like mine anymore. All right, look, you guys. James Austin Johnson is a very talented man, very funny man, does great impressions, cracks me the fuck up. There's a couple of things.

His Scooby-Doo Trump impression thing on YouTube or whatever it's on, and the the dylan stuff i have to i have to not watch too often so i can get laughs from watching it for years to come he's a member they're not ready for primetime players the final snl of the year airs this saturday on nbc and we had a lovely conversation in my hotel room in new york city where the sun was glaring. It was just glaring. It was beating down on him. I don't know why I didn't tell him to move or why we just didn't close the curtain.

But when we finished, he had to step away. I think he might have got a sunburn through the window. So this is me talking to James Austin Johnson in New York. So this is me talking to James Austin Johnson in New York. Moose? No. But moose head? Yes. Because that's alcohol, and we deliver that too. Along with your favorite restaurant food, groceries, and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly.

Product availability varies by region. See app for details. Death is in our air. This year's most anticipated series, FX's Shogun, only on Disney+. We live and we die. We control nothing beyond that. An epic saga based on the global best-selling novel

by James Clavel. To show your true heart is to risk your life. When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive. FX's Shogun, a new original series streaming February 27th

exclusively on Disney+. 18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. I'll hold the mic away if I do something. I can ride the fader. See, that's how I know you're a musician. You love the knobs. Yeah, I'm on the fader. See, that's how I know you're a musician. You love the knobs. Yeah, I'm on the knobs.

Well, I'm not. But I'm bad at this shit. I mean, I've been doing... Well, look, I've been doing this... Where are we at? Like 12 years and I'm sitting in a hotel room with a Zoom. How old is that Zoom? This is not that old a Zoom.

Oh, okay. Why? Does it look old? Well, you still got the plastic covering on the little LCD there. Yeah, I mean, I could take that off, but I think it would ruin something. I think men have a fear about peeling the sticker off the LCD of something. Well, you want to keep things pristine. Yeah. Why have you-

My dad, like, every car my dad's ever had, he leaves the film on the leased car, and he never takes it off the SiriusXM little screen thing. Right. And it gets nasty and gritty and full of his little gas station powdered donut grit. Yeah, lint. Yeah. Yeah. That's a man thing.

It's a certain type of man thing. I don't know what you're protecting, what you're holding onto. I don't know. Like, it's going to stay pristine. Yeah, the car's virginity, you know. So, now, I didn't realize this, and I feel bad about it, but I don't know. Like it's going to stay pristine. Yeah, the car's virginity, you know. So now, I didn't realize this, and I feel bad about it, but I don't think this is the first time we've been in a hotel room together. We met, Mark, in Nashville.

I know. Where I'm from. Yeah. What, 10, 12 years ago? It must be. Had I started, I was just the beginning of the podcast because I was doing a show in Nashville at Polk, James K. Polk Center.

At the TPAC. TPAC, yeah. At the big theater. And that's the one. That's when you've made it. Right, but no, I was in the smaller theater. But I mean, still. Yeah, it's nice.

That's where Jeff Tweedy plays. That's where Jerry Seinfeld plays. And you're in that genre. I bet you Tweedy and I were in the same room, but Jerry was in the bigger room. I think you're the Wilco of Jerry Seinfeld tweed and i were in the same room but jerry was in the bigger room i think you're the wilco of jerry seinfeld that's right i think can i pay i think it's true yeah ryan singer was my buddy he was opening for you and he invited right yeah because i was in the reason and i was just talking about you to my producer brendan

when i saw the dylan thing you know i'm like this guy's, you know, I'm like, this guy's great. You know, how do I not know this guy? And, uh, and he's like, and then two days later I do, uh, I do, I do the Nashville thing and Chad Ryden is there. Oh, okay. So, and I hadn't seen Chad in forever, you know, I probably hadn't seen him since I saw since with you and, and, and someone asked me to tell that Prince's chicken story. And I said, who was with us? It was me, you, and someone asked me to tell that prince's chicken story and i said who was with us it was me you and there was another guy john thornton was there john thornton his name was john thornton jr and he was a comedian in nashville he became a baptist pastor are you serious yes and then a socialist activist wait but, but weren't you there? I was there too. So there were five of us.

There was Ryan, me and John. Chad. Chad. And me. And you. So what happened to the other guy? He's not a comic anymore. I don't think he's a comic anymore.

He was a Baptist pastor. Yeah. He got frustrated because he was trying to use the emergency, like social rescue funds that some churches, some churches will have a, especially the big fancy ones. Yeah. We'll have like a slush fund that is meant for,

oh, we're getting 30 families who are evacuating a storm in Florida. Yeah. And we're taking them in with some of our families. So this money's for them ostensibly. But a lot of the big churches you know they they hate socialism they hate handouts they're republicans so they sit on the money and then and it's just they get all this money so when he was a a uh associate pastor at this one baptist i guess mega church or whatever he said well we've got people in debt in our church we've got two people i know are homeless let's spend this money yeah and then that just began a constant fight of him wanting to

help help and do christian shit yeah and uh so and that in itself is sort of a microcosm my own experience with the christian church which i was heavily involved in for most of my life. Do you know this kid, Andrew Stanley? Andrew Stanley, no. I think that's his name. He opened for me in Nashville, and he comes from a family of ministers. Oh, really? His grandfather is somebody, Stanley,

that writes books, and he's homeschooled. A lot of his angle is the homeschooled angle, but he's great. He's great. See, I think I grew up super crazy Christian intensity, and then I meet people who are like homeschooled, and I'm like, I went to public school. I sat at a lunch table with Jews and talked about The Daily Show. You did?

Yeah. You found the Jews in Nashville? I found the Jews in Nashville, and they introduced me to Conan and The Daily Show and Steely Dan and the cool shit that I like as an adult. Really? Yeah. You lay that squarely on the Jews. I don't know.

They happen to be Jewish people. No, it's good. It's good to hear positive things about Jews. I'm not a huge Steely Dan fan. I've tried, but it's- Really? You're not a Steely Dan fan? Look, I am.

I get it. But do I go to it? Do i go to it do you go to it no yeah so anyway sorry you were but you were brought up very religious yeah i grew up in the church of the nazarene which is like if methodists were really anti-fun yeah like you know like we don't drink we don't smoke no bowling alleys no engagement rings yeah let's exchange watches when we get married right you know um women can't wear shorts this is all stuff that ended in like i guess the 80s but that was the legacy of this church but do you come from ministers my no i come from like teachers and school administrators but

my dad worked at like uh worked at a nazarene college and my grand my mom's dad was president of Trevecca which is a Nazarene college in downtown Nashville so so Nazarene is just a sub division of it's just one of the denominations one of the million is it a popular one uh they say that there are more southern Baptists in Mississippi than there are Nazarenes in the entire world that's like this that's like the little aphorism that is shared that goes around the nazarene community it's like the number one christian church in haiti or something like that it's like a missionary thing and i don't know so i i love all those people a boutique christianity listen mark i went through all of my i've been through every phase of my relationship

with that community with jesus or just a community with the community with jesus it's like great i'll never get rid of jesus in my head you think i can get rid of jesus at this point i don't know i don't think i can well i don't know i don't know what that feels like i don't want to be christian does that make any sense sure but i mean i don't know what it feels like to have jesus so far in your head that you can't extricate it. Yeah, I get what you mean. Well, religion. Well, my wife and I, my wife grew up in a similar fashion in the Baptist church. And we watched these cult documentaries.

And then when the credits are rolling, we both just, every time we look at each other, we go, we were raised in a cult. We're brainwashed. Yeah. This is unhealthy. Right. One of us is going to murder someone at some point. Yeah. You don't know when you're going to be activated.

I don't know when it's going to kick in and we're scared about that. But how many, how many kids in your family? Uh, I was the youngest of three boys. Um, and, uh,

so you got, I mean, you actually had the, the best opportunity to become a free thinker in a way. Oh yeah. You could see all the damage. They're just taking the hits. You know, they're at the front of the ship.

Yeah, I know, right? Well, it's also that you're also in the position to be the most of a people-pleasing religious, like, psychopath. Where when you're the youngest, your whole mission is impressing people that are much older than you. Okay. When you're the youngest, all of your attitude and your value comes from making two people in their 40s and then two big boys relate to you. So that's where I think the impressions and stand-up and all the stand-up stuff. It's just to get attention just to get attention and then the nazarene world is very elders focused i mean those christian those

churches are all about the old man who is the most ordained and the most revered guy right so there's always like an old bearded guy there there's always an old bald man who is the most conservative hard-ass man you've ever met and he is the he is a bad he's a bad motherfucker yeah and he's the elder he's the elder and everyone respects him so it's always about the oldest man in the room it's when i go to these like i go to like liberal friends um houses like kids who grew up with npr yeah and and college professor parents yeah and people who have kids late in life it seems like it's all about the kids yeah it seems like it's all about life is totally focused on soccer and flute and their parties and their friends i did not grow up

in an environment like that it was always about soccer and flute you know what i mean yeah i do these people where the life is about the children i don't remember growing up and i was always dragged to some kind of luncheon where a solemn man was talking about the work they're doing in china or whatever you know what i mean you just sat there and i just sat there in a little suit we watch these vhs tapes where i'm squirming in a little suit at some nazarene conference, you know, in Indianapolis. But I thought it's weird because I guess that's true. I mean, I guess the ability to define yourself comes later as the third kid after you see your brothers go through a certain amount of hardship.

Yeah. I mean, I have to assume that at some point there's the people pleasing and then there's this sort of like, well, I'm not going to do that. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. That's this sort of like, well, I'm not going to do that. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. That's what I mean. I've already done my therapy thing. So now I'm at the new place where instead of being a resentful participant in all of this stuff, now I'll go to church with my family and try to see what they see in it.

Now I'm trying to have respect for who all these people are that love me. And how old are you? 33. Well, that's good because I think I'm just getting that now, and my parents are very old. Really? Well, I don't know if it's respect, but there's something's given way. You can hold on to this anger for so long,

but I've been doing this on stage where I say, but at some point you realize, I kind of won. Yeah. I got what you wanted. Right, so let's let it go. So let, it's like. I got what you wanted. Right. So let's let it go. So let's let it go. Show up for them a little bit.

Show up for them. And I want their, like, I want their final years to be. I see the value in other people's lives now. You do? I don't know. By like, yeah, right? Like you. I do.

Yeah, I think so. You get a taste of what you're working for. And then you're like, oh, I want. Yeah. And also when you're 33. So like, you know, I've got a lot of years on me. And then all of a sudden it's like, you know, you're like oh i want yeah and also when you're 33 so like you know i've got a lot of years on these and then all of a sudden it's like you know you realize like it's not gonna end well for anybody we all die alone exactly but like you see these people and there's that discomfort of like you know what look at this old asshole why is he gonna be like that and then you

realize who wouldn't be right how do you go out with any grace? Yeah, you don't. Not really. Even like, you know, when in thinking about Bob Dylan and the arc of your impression of him, it's like, you know, for some reason, that guy, after all he's done, is just, he just is dead set on dying on a tour bus. For real. I know. He loves, what musician, I think this is what truly made me love him after years of like, going back and forth between liking him and not liking him.

Did you grow up with it, or did the Jews give you Dylan, too? I got into Bob Dylan, I think, at the time, most people do, in college, trying to be smart. Right. Do you know what I mean? Right. What was your introduction? What was the record? Let's see.

It was actually high school. My high school girlfriend, who was really cool yeah really cool high school girlfriend uh got me blood on the tracks that's the one right and i listened to blood on the tracks a lot and i was like oh this is incredible this has this has what i'm looking for in books that i'm reading sure plus you know what i want from like the americana roots rock music that i listened to right because that was already happening yeah like yeah and then you probably and then if you move on to blonde on blonde and you listen to visions of joanna if you have the same experience i did it's like it's all in here yeah it's all in this song this is the

song yeah no that is the song right that's like the song that uh has has a lot of bob dylan moves in it i feel like and blonde on blonde the the way that the band is composed in the songs, the way that that band is put together, that session group or whatever in Nashville, to me, that's the Bob Dylan sound. Even though he's had a million sounds, Blonde on Blonde is, I think, what most people are picturing when they hear a Bob Dylan song,

like when they are imagining a Bob Dylan song. If it's not the original Dylan. If it's not, yeah, the Blown in the Wind. Right, right, right. I don't think anybody really relates to that Dylan anymore. That music to me sounds like such a fad.

Yeah, I guess. And then the rest of his music is so timeless to me. It's only if it sounds like a fad if you just let it hang there. But if you try to wedge it into context, it makes perfect sense. Of course it does, yeah.

But I thought that was the funniest. For some reason the moment that that resonates with me in that impression you did or that series of impressions dylan you did on fallon was that i think calvin coolidge said i think calvin coolidge said that like of all the references of anybody in the world that's a public figure that no one gives a fuck about. Yeah. Yeah. It's Calvin Coolidge. Yeah.

I think he had, there's a youth to Bob Dylan's pretentiousness in a lot of the early songs where I think he's showing off how much he's read, right? How aware he is of the outside world. Well, I just think like, you know, when I try to kind of wrap my brain around it, I think he was all hopped up on speed and- He was on drugs as well, yeah. And sort of a vague sense of self, but he was obviously gifted with some kind of like, it's some sort of, it's a talent,

but he's like a vessel of some kind. You don't, there are guys you meet, like even when you riff that, like if you're riffing Trump or you're riffing now and things fall into your head you know there are just some people that it's so much content right that is falling into them and through them you can't even understand it because you want to lock into some of these songs and like oh that's who he is who the fuck knows who that guy is yeah he's just this weird vessel he maybe doesn't know yeah who i don't know he's full all this beat poetry and you know i guess minnesota like folklore or whatever yeah

right and then there's a belly song this period where you know like i was there's a there's a documentary about ramlin jack elliott have you seen that no where you know they were peers yeah and and at the early time you know dylan used to look up to jack okay who was kind of this kind of folksy you know guitar playing you know you know cowboy storyteller okay yeah and it becomes very clear because i think jack's daughter made it that the early dylan is some amalgamation of things he picked up but it's mostly rambling jack like right this sort of like i think think Calvin Coolidge said that. It's a Ramblin' Jack trip.

This funny aside. That's when you start to, if you're like me, you're like, oh, fucking Dylan stole it. But then you realize, he's been a lot of things. In whatever Ramblin' Jack thinks, behind every genius, there's

at least three people going like, that fucker took my oh yeah you have to steal i think you fully have to steal right like well i i think that it it's something you're not conscious of i i think that like when you're hungry creatively and and you're talented you just start to absorb things yeah even when even when you are kind of when you're younger and you're just mimicking something that you saw another comedian do yeah which is how i started i started fully stealing i didn't realize that the stealing was bad or had a moral content or tone my first stand-up that i ever did how old were you okay let's see the first time i did my own stand-up, I was 14. I probably started a little earlier than that. Really?

In drama class at school. High school. In middle school. Middle school. In middle school, we did these competitions after school, forensics competitions, where you would memorize a monologue. Yeah. And you would go do it.

Yeah. At some competition at some other public school. Yeah. And I got assigned humorous interpretation yeah and that was my category okay and i got some three little pigs story or something my first year i did it i lost every competition my second year i said can i can i do eight minutes from my favorite stand-up album oh that's a great kind of exercise and you can and you're free to do it it's middle school it's it my teacher was like it just has to be a published work and you can do it at these

competitions so i transcribed eight minutes from have you ever met this guy mark brad stein brad stein's album rebel without a curse what is that what do you think the title rebel without a curse means uh this is a clean comedian who is advertising himself as a clean comedian uh-huh and he's also a rebellious clean comedian no yeah so this guy is now no fucks no fucks no fucks and also no fucks given if you don't like his but was this a regional act or was he this was a guy he was in la in the 80s comedy boom and then he had stein and then he settled in franklin tennessee outside nashville that's where the rich republicans live okay so he blew it in la and left or i think he got religion or

he got into conservative politics okay and so he found the record i found a guy i found the conservative clean comedy robin williams okay and i repeated his jokes about cars have too many airbags these days uh-huh you know his like stuff that i thought was cool sure and i started winning like gold medals by like repeating this guy's stand-up but you know what's funny is that you could have toured with that at 14 and no one would fucking know who brad stein is and i've heard a lot of guys i don't know that guy i think you know what i think he's big in the in the christian men's conference world and i assume now in this like growing uh right wing media streaming world too you know maybe

he's like doing uh guest spots or opening for stephen crowder at certain venues oh god i hope not you know it's it i can say that as someone who grew up in nashville who grew up working in you know in christian media conservative media i guess you'd say it's it's been an incredible shame to watch the like slide to the far and alt-right of a lot of these people who i think but even probably when you were growing up it was more nuanced in terms of the politics i mean there was concert but it was more of a family family values trip right well bush right was at the time seen as like a w or the original w yeah this is 2000 you know that's when i 2000 is my year of i want to be a comedian right that's the year i can remember i was watching saturday night i was watching daryl

hammond do al gore on saturday night live yeah will ferrell doing george w bush yeah and i was getting into comedy albums and that's when i can remember all this kind of starting for me yeah and but uh i came from a w obsessed family this is a guy who's gonna like who's gonna be a good comp they called it compassionate conservatism right we're gonna let in immigrants yeah so my family was obsessed with w it's weird these guys with this kind of lughead charisma how like how for regular people right like even my dad's wife they just they're enamored with the charisma yeah of of of this because like these are not smart people even trump has a weird fucked up charisma it's a belligerence that people identify but it's really at the base of it it's this uh they they love them there's like a there's like a guerrilla sexuality to some

of these guys you know what i mean you don't feel it like i don't find that you know trump or w were was necessarily sexual like i don't i don't sense a sexuality but there's a sturdiness to what people project yeah yeah yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. And they find them funny. They're just empty enough that they can put a lot of their dreams into them. And they're funny. I mean, Trump, intentional funny. I don't know how intentionally funny W was, but it was that buffoonery that was sort of endearing.

Disarming. Yeah, as he's bombing Iraqis. He can't get out of a room. It was a doorknob problem. I mean, yeah. I think that was a fun environment. And looking back on it, a good time, if you'll excuse me, to be in that right-wing world. It was post-9-11.

People were praying before every sporting event. Remember that time? That was like a very, like, American conservatism is a good thing. That was a widespread belief at the time, right? Because of 9-11. Because of 9-11. It brought everybody together until it didn't. Joe Biden supported the Iraq war.

Everyone did. You know, it was this time. It felt like a good time to be doing comedy, even though it was a horrific war period. But so it's interesting though. So when you say you were dug into Christian media, outside of the Brad Stein record, who I guess wasn't a Jew or maybe was and found religion. But I mean, but who, how were you dug into Christian media?

Just that was what you were taking in? So growing up in Nashville, I always wanted to be a comedian or an actor or something and I got plugged into acting with um a friend of a friend at church um one of my friends at church his dad had like a commercial production studio yeah and I would take improv classes there sometimes and I met this woman who did a sketch review educational sketch review called Janet's Planet. Her name's Janet Ivey. She's still working.

She's one of the best people ever. And she got me hooked up with an agent in Nashville, and I started auditioning for little things you can audition for in Nashville, which is a really small market. And you're what, 15, 14? I'm like 12, 13, 14. Wow, so you wanted to do it. I wanted to do it, and my parents would just drop me off at auditions. So you wanted to do it. I wanted to do it.

And my parents would just drop me off at auditions. I didn't have stage parents. I figured it all out by myself. But they were supportive? They were supportive. And the only things to act in, in Nashville, were like Baptist propaganda videos. Like the Southern Baptist Convention is headquartered in Nashville. Their publishing company is called Lifeway Christian Resources.

Yeah. I started working as like an in-house player for Lifeway Christian Resources as a kid acting in little morality videos that they show at like Sunday school or youth group. And, you know, it's like a little cute little demonstration before the pastor brings it home with a terrifying admonition of sin. So that's how I got my start. And those are the first directors I worked with. Those are the first crews I worked with were these like non-union guys who made Baptist propaganda. And are they all these? I guess they're all still out there.

The propaganda videos. They're in circulation. They're somewhere. I just i recently was able to watch some files of them and they're not very propaganda-y i don't want you to imagine something ussr style they're they're little skits they're little skits yeah but you know disney style they're like disney channel looking stuff and they're for kids they're for kids and they're cute but here's the thing the longer i did them the older i got the age group that i'm making videos for scales up yeah in

content so by the time i'm 19 i'm no i'm like 17 18 i'm in high school i'm acting in a video where my character is saying and separation of church and state that's not even in the constitution that's from a letter Jefferson wrote. So you don't even have to do that. Like, I'm arguing against the separation of church and state, and that's sort of, I think, that's what made me go, I think Christianity is maybe not my thing. So it was like, that's how you had the realization

is that you were a tool. Well, it wasn't immediate, because I immediately then went after that and did an anti-abortion major motion picture for for what what was it it was called october baby it opened number eight in america against the hunger games the hunger games sucked up so much money that our you know two million dollar christian movie snuck in there a lot of people saw it you know there's a huge market for that stuff yeah it's growing apparently and it's i think it's growing like lion's gate opened up sure opened

up a little house with those guys that i worked with yeah and i want the movies come out like what about the jews when's that movie come what about the jews so that was your whole life that was my life and i and i struggled between wanting to be in hollywood and wanting to be a good christian son but after you do the you know you start doing the impression the brad stein my life and I struggled between wanting to be in Hollywood and wanting to be a good Christian son. But after you do the, you know, you start doing the impression, the Brad Stein piece and that sort of inspires you to do comedy because you realize the power

of laughter and you were able to just get it by cheating in a way. Yeah, a little bit. But not really. I mean, it's a script to script. So what do you, you know, to catch up with it, so how do you go on from there with the comedy thing? You just start building impressions or? I didn't, I didn't grow up really a huge impressionist.

That sort of, that was like my first thing I would do to impress adults when I was young. And then, you know, I can remember doing Daryl Hammond's Al Gore. It was one I would do at church, like for adults and they would freak out and I was like I don't have no clue who either of these two men are yeah but me imitating it is making this grown man freak out yeah but I'm making fun of Al Gore and saying SNL stuff I mean last night I'm you know I'm on stage and all of a sudden I'm talking like I'm from New Jersey I don't know why yeah it's not an intentional thing but if I talk to somebody from New York I'm gonna talk start doing that do you do that yalling when you're in alabama a little yeah but not i would

hope not yeah the real the real problem with that is with uh when when i interview black people and i start not knowing that it's happening you're letting blackness into you yeah yeah yeah but i don't mind it but it's kind of odd do you do that though do you code do i code switch yeah uh i find myself doing that sometimes yeah and um you know there was sometimes sometimes you can't help it i mean i lived with with two black comedians in la for a few years with anybody with a vocal with a different sort of do you glom it that i i really try to resist the urge to yeah What I do now with my wife is as soon as we walk away, I just, I lash into the person. I'm immediately, you know, if we're walking down the street and we hear a snatch of conversation, I lean over to my wife and I'm like, well, he didn't even say that.

He didn't even say that. And when I walked in, he looked at me like I was, and I said, Brian. And that's all I heard from the woman who passed me. Yeah. But I do that to my wife heard from the woman who passed me. Yeah. But I do that to my wife every time we pass anybody. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that's maybe one of the things that makes New York the only place that you can be someone who does impressions for a living.

I have a job at one of the only places you can do impressions for a living. Right. But also it's also something about- It has to be here because people are on their phones yeah or they're crazy right but everyone's always shouting while they're walking and so you hear it all day but the nature of how you do it you know which is it's it's just sort of like this um you just kind of like drop into the collective consciousness of this thing you know like and you just kind of run with it or something right yeah but you're not

you know it's i don't think most impressionists have that i think your approach to it is different but but let's go back so okay yeah so so i'm repeating uh i'm repeating this christian comedians act yeah and uh my dad uh asked me hey do you want to do some comedy at this next event at the college yeah he was the dean of students at the time. At your college? At the college I eventually went to, but it's the one that my dad worked at. The Nazarene College. At the Nazarene College.

I'm 14. It's a singing competition. They have to count the votes for the singers. And they need a little filler? They need a little filler. And I did 10 minutes. I was 14. I have a tape of it somewhere.

I can't find it. Brad Stein stuff? No, this was me. I said, I'm going to write my own jokes. And I guess 30 minutes before it i wrote my own material but it was like what a kid likes instant like isn't it weird when you go over to your friend's house and it smells weird you know like what is a 14 year old's observational comedy and then i finished it by doing like um one of the most like alt comedy things I could do ever in my comedy, which was like,

I did, you know, the, the robots at Chuck E. Cheese that would play the birthday song, you know, you go to Chuck E. Cheese and there's like the,

the robot band, you know, I've never been in one, but I, you know what I'm talking about, right? The rock of fire explosion or something. These little amusement places have these robot bands that lip sync a song.

Right. So I did an impression of those bands, like of those robotic band members. But the song was another brick in the wall part two. And that's how I closed was like, oh, no, you just. And I'm like, herky jerky movements like I'm playing the drums and. Which gives it a darkness and a weight. That's what I'm saying is like a 14-year-old doing that, I look back on it and I'm like,

I would be weird about doing that at UCB now. Right. I would be like, are they going to appreciate this? Right. Does this translate? It does. Of course it would. So I'm proud of myself that I had those instincts.

And then of course, you know, I would try comedy four or five times a year for the next five years. At Zany's? And do terribly. I didn't start going up at Zany's until I was about 19 in college. But I'd perform wherever, talent shows and a boat one time, just anywhere where I could find a way to do it. So you kept trying but not- Not doing well at all. The first time it went so good

and then it was terrible every other time. In front of real audience. In front of real people. But was it, but you kept at it or you were like fighting with, but in the meantime, you're acting, you're a big actor in Christian propaganda. I wouldn't say big, but I was definitely,

I was always working on these skills and like i was the kid in college or high school where kids would be like oh he's trying to be funny but he's not funny that's that's not funny it's funny because chad riding yeah was like oh he's been funny since he was 12 but did you know those guys? Were you hanging around comics early on? Yeah, like I would say about at 19, that's when I started sneaking into bars to do bar comedy in Nashville because I knew that I just couldn't do the Christian comedy thing. I couldn't just perform in megachurches

and church camps and stuff. But this was also after the propaganda realization. This was after the- Yeah, I'm coming out of that. And this is embarrassing. I'll tell you, and we all have our ways into things. also after the propaganda realization this was after the yeah i'm coming out of that and this is embarrassing i'll tell you and we all have our ways into things i saw judd apatow's funny people yeah and i saw this movie where young comics were in la trying to get up at the improv yeah and i was like oh i can just google where to do stand-up in nashville yeah i found nashville stand-up.com

which was chad ridden's website. I found like a calendar of places. And one by one, I started sneaking out. My college had a thing. I signed a document saying I wouldn't even put myself in the presence of alcohol. I won't even go to bars.

I can't go to somewhere that's served alcohol. Were you afraid of that? I mean, like, because you signed it, were you abiding by it uh i wanted to be a good boy yeah my dad worked at the college i have this legacy of family i'm like nazarene royalty yeah i can't embarrass everyone and i and i i guess on some level in that light you know

nashville is a relatively small town you could get caught i could get caught because there were there were legends of you know certain deans driving around at the popular bars looking for kids yeah so um so i was one by one ticking off which bars i could get into without getting carded because you know underage yeah and then chad saw what i was doing and he started he started sort of ushering me into some of these bars to be on the lineup yeah and like i didn't drink at these places i didn't drink under age i just i got the x on my hand at the places that did the x's on the hands yeah and that's how i started performing i'm performing i'm a good 20

years younger than everyone else doing comedy in nashville do you remember who they were uh brad edwards was my favorite comedian in nashville i don't know if you've seen him i have recently he's uh he's really into woodworking okay these days that's where that's where he ended up he was incredible yeah incredible comedian i hope he still gets up sean parrot is an incredible comedian in nashville uh-huh um killer bees killer bees i never got to know killer bees very well i you know i would go to zany save up save up i james gregory yeah you know seeing all those guys like zany's was this other thing that none of us could break into all the open micers we are doing these like bar shows yeah and zany's was this thing that led

in like one person every four years right i mean right be a part of the locals for the locals you know to be they had the sexy guitar comic they had the cute guy who did guitar comedy they had the you know they had a the fat guy who talked about going to mcdonald's yeah and then whoever the touring guys were those are the guys that would open for nick cannon right and yeah james gregory it's so funny it's all this it's all this basic commedia della arte structure there's this handful of types that just refill you have the fat guy dies we got one waiting yeah we got the next we got the next guy and ralphie's gone bring in the next heavyweight bring in the next heavyweight oh he was just you know he was just in a horrible

car wreck and in the middle of nowhere doing some one-nighter yeah like comedy just i grew up in in nashville. The comedy scene seemed so dangerous. It seemed so un, it just was so unlike the safe sort of Christian world that I came from. And also unlike

the Apatow movie on some level. You know, the sort of nuts and bolts of regional and road comedy. Yeah. It doesn't look like show business. No, it doesn't. And you know,

it's really just, it is what it is. And it will be the exact same after the apocalypse. Nothing will change about it. Sure, there'll be people going like, is that club open? A comedian with an arm sticking out of his forehead with green ooze coming out of one eye.

I got a hook. Yeah. I'm actually doing Quadrant Zone A4 tomorrow. It's great, and they'll let you eat for free. So when did you decide, like the acting thing, did you just learn on the job? Did you study it? I never really took any formal training.

It was just like they both just happened. You know, stand-up was this thing where there wasn't an improv scene in Nashville, which I may have done if i was in chicago or something so stand-up just became i have to perform somewhere yeah and that's how i got doing stand-up mostly and i didn't do any impressions in my stand-up almost ever until may last four or five years probably really yeah i just didn't really do it i would do i would do like one line as Louis. Yeah. You know, I would finish a five-minute showcase set in LA. You know, I was in LA for the last 10 years. I would finish a showcase set by like doing Louis, like born again Louis CK.

Oh, yeah. How's that? Yeah. Do you ever go outside and the sky is blue and that's enough? You ever have that moment with your creator, however you define that presence in your, that's amazing. That's amazing.

I think Jesus is great. And I think the devil is a cunt. And how did that do? It would do well. I mean, that's, that was the lesson was like people didn't, after a certain point,

to distinguish yourself from all of the, there's a thousand comedians in LA, and to distinguish yourself, you have to start making moves. Like, you know what I mean? And the impressions thing was a thing only I could do. Not everyone else was doing that. And I was like,

if I can find a way to do impressions that's not corny that is not branson missouri that is not vegas then there's only ever been a handful of people that do it professionally uh that you know right or well you know there was a time in the 80s i think where everybody had one or two where that's where you get that hat hack nicholson right yeah trip but in terms of people that really can do it and be impressive there's only been like a handful ever yeah and it's a it's it's a real sort of pocket of stand-up yeah and show business but like you said it's hard to do and even some great impressionists

are not that great but there's something about they get one thing right there's it's hard to do it cool it's hard to do it in a way that doesn't make you roll your eyes i mean i i'm a i was a comedy fan yeah and when there would be an impressionist impressionist would come up if i'm watching a show i would get like scared because i'm like either this is going to be amazing yeah or it's going to be really kind of uncomfortable and sad. You know, like, because it can be. I remember growing up watching Rich Little. I mean, he was the guy, right?

And then there was, from the generation before him, I think there were a lot more impressionists around. You know, I think that, like, you know, like, you know, when you get sort of into the history of show business, I remember when I was a kid, you'd see Rich Little, and then you'd see these old guys on these talk shows and someone was like, you know, Frank Gorshin was an impressionist.

And I'm like, who the fuck is Frank Gorshin? This guy plays the Joker on the Batman show. Like, I'm not that old, but like I remember hearing that information and then you get sort of fascinated with it. I think it comes from a nightclub tradition, right? Where you have a song, you have your jokes. know everyone did everything yes and the variety thing yeah yeah before like uh before there were comedy clubs before like bud friedman and stuff yeah there

wasn't just a place that was just the stand no you're opening for music yeah and margaret's doing stand-up and then singing a song in tahoe like that was the one thing i always used to notice about dana gould i'm like he does it all oh i love dana he's the best he's so funny so funny stand up and then singing a song in Tahoe. That was the one thing I always used to notice about Dana Gould. I'm like, he does it all. Oh, I love Dana. He's the best. He's so funny. He's so funny, but he can do all of it.

Funny forever. That's what makes this week is Martin Short and Steve Martin at the show. On SNL. And Martin Short was like my number one. Oh, yeah? When I got hired at SNL, they were like, well, what do you want to do? What's your career? And I was like, I want to be Martin Short short i want to be funny for 50 years straight and like you you're undeniable yes and that's just and the business does not know what

to do with you yeah yeah well i mean that's to me the business is being on every talk show murdering yeah and then popping up as a french guy in a movie for yeah 20 minutes for like five minutes or whatever i think that is the height of being in show business i think you're right as i hope that those uh those talk shows live long enough to where you can fulfill that s and l lives long enough that's well you're good you're it's not going to go anywhere right away i i you know i i'm not saying like that's going to happen i just mean when i look out at like the media landscape i'm always like well what am i going to be doing in two years yeah like where am i going to be where do i get to go next yeah i mean i want to do snl as long

as everyone gets to do snl i want to i want to do what are you on four now four years i'm this is my second season second season and i want to do it for forever you know okay so you're in Nashville you're you're uh bordering on being a at least elapsed Christian in behavior um yeah you're doing stand-up so where do you get the wherewithal just to go to LA did you meet somebody uh let's see I yeah because Nashville comics would always go to Chicago but when I met you so you hadn't left yet. I hadn't left yet. And you sat in a hotel room with me and Singer, and I recorded an intro? Yes, you recorded an intro,

and then we went to Pied Piper for some ice cream, I think. Oh, yeah. And we went to Grimey's, I think, to look at records. Grimey's, yeah. We had a full day. We had a full Nashville day. Were you talkative? I think I said one joke to try to get the respect.

And I was like, I was not mature enough to be like, just ride out a nice day with Mark. Don't bother the guy. Precious had just come out. This is the worst joke of all time. Somebody brought up Precious. From the back of the car, I said, Eddie Murphy can do anything. And it did not get that response. Damn it think you went ha yeah it was me it was me me you and singer driving oh man so that was like yeah that was like well i got i gotta try yeah

you gotta cast your lot i'm sorry i'm sorry don't apologize for that mark do you understand that those are the moments that lead to me achieving some sort of greatness? Oh, good. All right. It's like wanting to get the kill in the car with this visiting comic. Yeah. Did you do that with a lot of visiting comics? Oh, not really.

I didn't hang out with it because a lot of them weren't the guys I was fans of. Yeah. It was like there was a couple years where I saw a lot of the people that I liked. Yeah. I saw you. I saw Louie. I saw you. I saw Louie. I saw Patton. Yeah.

Todd Berry. I saw Reggie Watts. Yeah. I saw Conan. Right. I had this great little run in 2009 to 2011 where I got to, that was at the beginning of my open micing. Yeah.

And I really got to see great acts that came through Nashville. And then you moved to la and then i'm and then i i in college i got to go for a semester to la yeah uh to be in some film school program for a semester what'd you do there it was like uh it was like a christian college thing where they had like a semester exchange where you could go learn some video production in la and intern i interned at beavis and butthead. I interned for Mike Judge for like a little one season reboot of Beavis and Butthead. He's a good guy. He is a good guy. I really respect him. He's a southerner who figured out how to do intelligent. You know, King of the Hill is an achievement. Yeah. King of the Hill is an achievement to take Texas people,

believably render real feeling Texas people. Yeah. And do it in a way that's respectful and honest at the same time. Yeah. Like you show their faults, you show their compassion. Yeah. You don't hate Hank at all. You respect Hank. Empathetic treatment of that.

Of like a group that usually gets shit on all the time. Yeah, yeah. And so I loved that I got to work for Mike Judge for a little bit. That felt very appropriate. But then I got bad grades because I was just doing open mics all the time. And I came back to Nashville. In LA.

Where at? Like Nerdist and all that shit? Yeah, I would go to- Meltdown, all places? Yeah, Meltdown. And I would go to Holy Fuck every Tuesday, that show in the theater, the movie theater. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Did you ever do Dave Ross's movie theater show? I did do that. Yeah, downtown, right? Downtown. Yeah, yeah. And I would Meltdown, Power Violence, uh go to hang out at the improv violence on what was on like melt or santa monica yeah that was in that little theater who the fuck was that was that thomas whit thomas whitmer thomas sure and wasn't it two guys hosting it and wasn't it kind of

chaotic it was very chaotic i remember doing it once and i'm like what the fuck is happening well you would see you would see like you or bill burr or like you would see you would see real comedians try do this punk show yeah you know and um so la had these good little five dollar or free shows that i could see yeah real comedians at and so i i would hang out at all those and i was starting to get booked, but then I chickened out, went back to Nashville, did comedy in Nashville for two more years, met the woman who is now my wife.

Yeah. And then I moved back to LA for 10 years. What does she do? She is a counselor. She is a therapist. Oh, really? She's in college. She's in grad school to be a therapist.

Oh, that's good. She's worked in behaviorism and worked at schools with kids smearing shit on the walls. So you're covered. I'm covered. You're gonna be managed. I found the one that is gonna be able to ride this out however long it lasts for me.

And be helpful. And be helpful, and also hate it at the correct degree. Hate it to a healthy degree. Yeah, good. So you just go on your own, you just pack up and say, I'm going, Mom. I'm going, I'm gonna go,

I'm going out this time. I think I had like $1,000 or something from some- And your parents all along the way are okay. They believe that you're going to maintain your decency. You know, to their credit, they let me go. Yeah. But from my perspective, I also believe that they were positive that I would come home soon and teach poetry at a small private Christian college.

Yeah. And be a respectable man. Poetry. Even after I'm like, I remember I had booked a Coen Brothers movie. I had two lines in a Coen Brothers movie. And I told my grandparents and my grandpa was like, well, you'll come home. You'll teach history. Yeah. I was like, I'm in a Coen Brothers movie. They told my grandparents and my grandpa was like well you'll come home you'll teach history yeah i was like i'm in a coen brothers movie they don't know they don't know but that which movie hell sees it right hell sees it yeah what what a great movie i i

celebrate that movie and and you know and people will not join me in it yeah yeah i think it's one of the great coen brother movies i guess everyone's kind of weird about the about coen brothers they all have their like the i'm not a Lebowski guy. I mean, I like it. I've watched it many times, but I'm not in the cult of Lebowski. You may be a Lebowski character. That's true. You may be believable as another man at that bowling alley.

Yeah, I'm living that to a certain degree. I get the point of why people love it. But for me, you know, Hail Caesar. And like a double feature of Hail Caesar and Barton Fink, I see Hail Caesar as the sequel

to Barton Fink. The light sequel to Barton Fink. Right. Well, it's literally the capital pictures, the fake studio.

Yeah. The Michael Lerner studio. I remember sitting next to Joel Cohen, who you could play in a film, and I was sitting next to Joel Cohen,

and I was like i gotta talk to him yeah and again i'm too green i should shut the hell up and let no you got it the guy you just gotta do it dude so so i'm sitting in a director's chair next to him we're at on location in aguadolce we're on one of we're in one of those movie ranches somewhere shooting the western scene and i see the the capital pictures logo on some old-timey trucks in the way in the background of the shot i was like oh capital pictures from from barton fink that's pretty cool and then uh joel cohen who is obviously thinking about the next sequence of shots that he's gonna compose with roger deakins yeah like glances over distractedly and

looks at him he's like yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It goes back to the important work that he's doing. He acknowledged you got the. And I felt like such a rat for bugging this artist. Oh, come on. In the middle of his work day. Come on. What's my Coen Brothers movie?

I think it changes over the years. Yeah. And I like Serious Man because as a Jew, it's such a Jew-y movie. It's probably one of the Jew-iest movies since Fiddler. Well, it does start with a tale of a Dybbuk. It starts with a folk tale. Yeah, of the ghost. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Of the ghost. And see, as somebody who grew up super Christian, I got a lot of value out of Serious Man. I'm watching it and I'm like, oh yeah, the bonds that tie you to the entire history of your traditions, of your family's traditions. Well, you know, a lot of Christians

are very pro-Jew. But it sadly- To a degree. No, but it's an apocalyptic vision. I know. I talk about this with my Jewish comedy writer friends now where we're like- When you get us all to Israel,

then Jesus could come back. Exactly, right? I get it. But it doesn't end well for- No. For one half of the equation. we're like when we all if when you get us all to israel then jesus could come back exactly right i get it but it doesn't end well for no for one half of the equation well i've been playing with these ideas about how you know i i haven't really i connect them sometimes when i'm riffing but the idea that like if you believe in jesus you'll probably believe anything i mean you have to sort of like manage that door right because there's not like you know the spectacular sort of mythology of it enables q anon to a certain degree yeah i don't i don't know i mean i feel like i hang out with with christians and

conservatives a fair amount because we're in nashville all the time now right and so you think that that's a faulty premise i just feel like I don't know a lot of the Q people or they're like hiding it but I do know that Facebook has ruined so many people's brains yeah like the there is like a thing now where people are quick to believe the thing with the fewest sources right and quick to negate a very thoroughly well-researched like new yorker article but that is you just explained religion i know see that's i think i think that's the thing that's ultimately keeps me from re-engaging with christianity you know you but you can have faith and you can have belief and you can know i don't know if i do i don't

know if i believe the stuff what But you've grown to be more forgiving and accepting of the community that you came up with. I think religion is beautiful. I think if you can actively engage in it, and I've seen it make people's lives better. Yeah. But I had this intense respect for religion, and I followed the teachings of christianity very closely

and i had respect for it it was that respect that led me away from it because i came to a point where i was in an argument with with a pastor friend yeah and a really enlightened guy cool like uh well-read you know a liberal thinker in the true sense of the word and i'm like talking to him about this stuff and i'm saying just some stuff i casually believe and and he's just like yeah well i mean jesus uh did rise from the dead and i was like oh i don't know if i believe the stuff like it just hit me that i'm maybe not a christian because you have to believe the stuff yeah and it just hit me that I'm maybe not a Christian because you have to believe the stuff. Yeah.

And I, I think I just realized maybe as soon as like five years ago or something, it was like, I don't think I believe the stuff. Yeah. And then that made me go, well, I've got to stop faking that.

I believe the stuff. Right. Because this is disrespectful to people who do. Right. And so that's where I'm at with it now. Okay. Where we have this little baby and we're like, are we going to raise him with the stuff, with the stuff? Because, you know's where I'm at with it now. Okay. Where we have this little baby and we're like, are we going to raise him?

With the stuff? With the stuff. Because, you know, and I'm like, he's got to know the Jonah and the whale. Yeah, right. He's got to know the stories. But that's the old stuff. He's got to know the tales.

But I just don't want him growing up with crazy baggage and guilt guiding him through everything. I was a virgin until I was 25, you know? It must have been a good day. It was, well, the first two times were not, they were C-minuses on my end of the bargain. But the third and fourth time was like hearing the Beatles for the first time, for sure.

Oh, good. But, you know, I don't want my kid growing up afraid of engaging with the world. I mean, Christianity can do that to you. Sure. You grow up thinking that everything that is not Christian is pure evil. Right. And I want to have a love of discovery, a curiosity.

Oh, good. Yeah, the people that live in that five square mile radius that you're talking about i think it was the lack of curiosity that terrified me about living and they're and they're enforcing of that the the enforcing of like what you said like everything that's uh you know that we don't understand has got to be bad and now it's and now living in the country is sort of a virtual experience. Like, we live in a monoculture. We have the internet.

All of us live in the same culture at the same time. Yeah, but no one's on the same page of the internet. I know. That is true. That is true. Okay, so you're out there. You did the Coen Brothers movies, and you're showing up on things.

So when does the big break come? Because you're not really... Are you working as a touring comic? I'm like, I wouldn't say I'm working. I'm like featuring for like Ryan sometimes or like Dave Stone or, you know, Rory maybe once or twice. So doing a Go Bananas weekend with somebody else making 500 bucks. Right, in Cincinnati. In Cincinnati.

And, you know, so. Jeff Tate. Jeff Tate. Jeff Tate. These are men that helped me out. Kyle Kinane. Yeah. So I'm going around with these guys sometimes and trying to learn stuff. I got, at some point I got an agent and I got JFL in 2017.

Isn't it interesting, though, that these guys, so you held out, you know, you were hanging out with some uh you know fairly um sweet demons yeah and and i imagine they kind of took care of your sensibility they they were not like what's up dude you gonna do this yeah yeah yeah no these are these are these are guys that read books yeah and also are looking for fried chicken at every moment of the day yeah yeah you know drinking and drinking beer so so i i was able to engage with guys that were like oh they're half in my tennessee world yeah somehow and they're half in this punk yeah um comedy world yeah yeah and uh that was a good bridge from my like christian comedy nice those are good guys to the city those are all good guys you know jeff and ryan and k and Kyle. I owe them so much. I owe them so much.

And so at some point, I got an agent in LA, managers. I did JFL. I remember I went into JFL thinking, this is where the SNL people see you. I got to do my SNL set. So my five minutes at JFL

was like an SNL audition. I did Louie. I sang a song. I did like a sportscaster bit. I did one-. I sang a song. I did like a sportscaster bit. I did one-liners. I had all... Did you kill? I had a kill. I got written up on some comedy blog. I was like, this is a good JFL. I didn't have a single meeting. I didn't talk to anybody. No call from SNL. You know what I think it is? And I don't mind saying this on wtf what i think it was

is sam j i had to follow sam j every stage of jfl sam j just this murder you know yeah sure it's a murderer yeah and um she would just she would level the theater yeah and i'm i swear to god she was hired from to snl writing staff like that night yeah of our big jfl show i swear to god snl was just talking to her already backstage i don't think they were watching my set because she was like crushing oh that's probably true i think that may have been what happened they just ran backstage right when you got up he she brought whoever brought you up they were already backstage talking to Sam. Not that it's a guarantee

that I was going to get asked out at that point and thank God that it didn't. I'm so glad that it happened five years later when I was in my 30s and not my single in my mid-20s.

It took five years? So what are you doing for that five years? When did you start doing Trump on whatever, Instagram? You know, I got together

with my former girlfriend who is my wife now we got together again after five years apart i was happy i went to therapy this is the five-year interim this is the five-year entry yeah i started going to therapy i i made up with my family i i well how deep was that riff it wasn't that much of a riff but it was it was all on me it was all this like they ate all this they didn ah, I hate all this stuff. They didn't even know, really. They barely even knew. They didn't know that I was on Prozac

and I had anxiety and all this. So I think it was just I worked on myself and I kept plugging away at stand-up. I started a show in Highland Park at a bar called La Cuevita, Little Cave. We started a show called Rod Stewart Live. Yeah. Didn't do that one. Well, Little Cave. We started a show called Rod Stewart Live. Yeah. Didn't do that one.

Well, you know. You didn't ask me. I don't think you would have wanted to do this one because we had to pummel our way through to the laughs. I mean, it was a loud, that's a loud biker cocaine bar. Oh, wow. That is, that is.

Why'd you choose that place? That is a goth bar because they would let us. They would let us do the show for five years. Where is it? Every Wednesday night. It's at, you know where Triple Beam pizza is and yeah hippo yeah yeah it's like right next okay okay and um so i i kind of did roadhouse comedy in highland park every wednesday night for five years while you were going to therapy going to therapy and in love being in love and doing commercial auditions for Taco Bell and

stuff and that's I think really where I got my stand-up chops finally was doing fighting through conversations and getting the attention of people and that's where I started doing Trump on stage okay I the first couple times I did Trump in 2018 2017 impression was okay and people would stop and listen because it kind of sounds like him but I'm doing the angry you know I'm a liberal and I'm doing the angry Trump we're gonna kill everybody blah blah blah yeah and not getting laughs but they are quiet and I was like I never want that I never want to silence a yeah a biker bar yeah and not get laughs yeah so that's when i started abstracting the trump and i made him like a guy from lord of the rings and then like that's that's where it took on the thing that it is now yeah where i remember being talked about anything i yeah and

i would just do like he's that's like a guy from medieval times like he's he's like trying to scare peasants and so then i would be like we've got to do something about the mermaid king, the mermaid king. By the way, only I have the amulet that will allow me to breathe underwater and defeat this mermaid king. Wouldn't it be great if we got along with the dragons? So,

so by abstracting it and making it silly, then I started getting laughs with it and getting confident with it. And then COVID happened. We lost our show. We're all, we're all stuck in our houses. And then COVID happened. We lost our show. We're all stuck in our houses. My wife and I had a miscarriage. We were bummed out. You got married during that time?

We got married in 2018, yeah. And then COVID happened. We were trying to have a kid. We lost the pregnancy. Sorry. It happens to everybody. We were just depressed in our home. And I just started i just started

making videos for twitter just walking around my house because i had to do comedy somehow yeah that's what i do with instagram kind of yeah yeah right yeah and and it everyone kind of started doing that a little bit because there was nowhere to perform yeah it was an election year and my trump impression was something silly that didn't piss people off. It was like a release. Yeah. And they just started getting picked up and getting shared by celebrities. And then I started a podcast with my buddy, Zach Pugh.

And on this podcast, What Things Are What Things, I would call in as a celebrity at the end for like 20 minutes and be Bob Dylan or be Bobby Flay or Joe Biden. You'd do Bobby Flay? I would do Bobby Flay, yeah. What is that? Like, that's it. Now stick around because there's going to be a lot more ribs where that came from right after this. You know how Bobby has the TV Bobby? Yeah.

Where he's reading a cue card? He's really excited, and he's speaking at a huge volume. Yeah. And he's a little New York. He's kind of not ready to be on TV, but it's not like he's going to take any allocution classes or anything like that, but he's excited to make a brick oven pizza.

And then there's the cutaway where he's sort of snidely explaining what a red sauce is because food network is for people who've been hit in the head 20 times yeah so he's like well you know red sauce is uh you know usually composed usually composed of uh diced onion a little bit of garlic and uh it's tomatoes san marzano tomatoes is sort of packaged at the peak of the freshness and uh just kind of want to start sweating all the aromatics and get that started in the saucepan. He has like the quiet, shy guy in the cutaway. And then the big theater kid

who can't wait to show you how Guy Fieri makes his ultimate barbecue queso. Yeah. So I would do Bobby Flay a lot and Trump a lot. And the big clip that took off for me that I think got me on SNL was I did Trump pretending to be a New York comedian in the 2000s remembering how good the Rafifi scene was.

Oh my God, that's pretty specific. So that was an episode Whitmer Thomas was on and that's just how the conversation ended up. And Whitmer was like, well, Trump, you were in the New York comedy scene around that time. And then I was like, the whole clip was just like oh yeah it was me it was burr it was patrice and you know who we all thought was amazing was ad miles we loved ad miles and tisdale um still so so that clip i think uh somehow like Seth Meyers and John Mulaney and like a few of those guys

like ended up on their group chat. Oh, so that's interesting because those are the guys who were on the inside. Yeah. And they were kind of locked into that world, right? Yeah, they were kind of coming up around the time of burr and patrice yeah sure and and yeah and so um that clip got passed around i think it was like oh he's good at impressions and he has like a knowledge of comedy he's obviously like a comedy fan and so when i sent in a tape when i got invited to to send in a tape to SNL almost a year later,

they watched it. And I watched them watch it. I watched the view count on it. It was like a private tape. So when you send a link and you send it a private link to your Vimeo or YouTube. Oh, is that how it works? Yeah. You can see if no one has the link, no one's watching it except for the people you sent

it to. Right. So I just watched it get for the people you sent it to. Right. So I just watched it get watched like a dozen times one week. And I was like, oh, they're watching it at SNL. You were just kind of checking it every other day? My agents would tell me. I was trying to forget about it. I was like trying to get jobs.

And I was like, this isn't going to happen. Honey, it's not going to happen. This is, yeah, this is at least six months after I made these clips. Okay. Whenever it was hiring time. You know, they start watching tapes in July or something like that. Yeah. happen yeah this is yeah this is at least six months after i made these clips okay um whenever it was hiring time you know they start watching tapes in july or something like that and yeah and um and i was like honey it's not gonna happen don't don't worry about it because we're already pregnant we're already nesting in la yeah we're in highland park we got a good condo yeah i've

got my little routine i film a couple self-tape auditions. I grab my Kindle. I go down to the pool. I read my Keith Richards book. Great book. And it's a great one. And I go back upstairs and we eat dinner. And I was like, I had a great life where I was making 30, 40 grand a year as an actor once or twice a year. You know what I mean? I'm acting one little thing.

I'm in the background of a George Clooney Nespresso commercial. Yeah. And, oh, it's playing in Germany now. So I think we can go on that, you know, we can go to that wedding or whatever. Nice, yeah. So that's how I'm taking care of things. And I was like, honey, SNL, it's not going to happen. But are you miserable? You're okay.

We were so happy. That's why we got pregnant. Yeah. You know, I mean, we were truly happy. And making little videos. I'm doing Trump and Jeff Goldblum on Cameo. Yeah. And I'm making little videos. I'm doing Trump and Jeff Goldblum on Cameo. People buy my Cameos. And I'm just famous enough on the internet that I can be on Cameo and sell a $100 Cameo of me doing a little happy birthday to a very beautiful person.

You know, my terrible Goldblum and stuff. And then they invited me. They saw the tape and they invited me to audition in la and uh i was on a job i was shooting an adam conover netflix show so i had to drive back from uh drive back from uh santa clarita to make it to the so everything shoots in santa clarita there's always i don't know why it's wild, right? That's where they shoot everything. And I had to haul ass in my 30 year old truck to make it to WeHo for my call time.

It fully COVID locked down groundlings theater where they're having this, this showcase. There's 20 people on it. Me and Sarah squirm or I don't know if you know her, but she got hired my same year. She's a great comic. And I was like, honey honey don't worry about it it's i'm gonna do well but it's not gonna lead to anything snl jerks all my friends around we all go

up three times in front of them and none of us get hired it's okay yeah every every it's a good thing for a comic to end up in the casting mix for snl but it never happens right so i'm just like telling her who are those friends that you that you knew who've been run up the i felt like any friend of mine that was already doing cool things like like wit was one of those guys who i knew had auditioned and came back and um you know um i i had friends that had gone and tested and just come back yeah and it was like a thing it's like a, uh, like JFL. It's like a mark of success that you got in the mix. Um, and then,

um, I, I did, I had a great set. I went up like fourth at this showcase and I just had a great set. Yeah. I did like 15 different people. I did.

I was like, my way into SNL is the characters and impressions. It's not the, it's not just standup. Right. So I was like, I'm not going to do standup. Right. And so, did you know i did uh uh trump talking i think my first thing was trump saying happy birthday to frankenstein at like some event yeah you know what i mean he's

a great guy look at him frankenstein one of our favorite people and he has beautiful bolts i love the bolts it's so beautiful and he's so tall you know i was talking to baba duck and bob you know our wives are friends and baba duck is also tall so that was the first thing and then i think i did lindsey graham bobby flay michael rapaport i did chris odowd what's your rapap port these fucking guys with the with the spaghetti arms and the little chicken finger toes who always up at starbucks yeah you know it's that yeah one volume have you met many of the people that you do impressions mark i'm i'm mark the other day i said goodbye to my wife i headed into snl i lit a joint on the streets of new york

and i took one puff of it and almost ran into michael rapaport he's holding a microphone he's got some guy he's gonna make something for his instagram or something like that and i just got to talk to him for a second because he follows me yeah he's like i like how you do me you know i don't like i'm talking to him yeah man and they had natasha doing me instead and i was like they gotta let the james guy do it he's really all right i got to talk to him for five minutes and i just have this lit joint in my hand yeah you didn't want any i didn't offer i should have offered him some of my joy yeah he my jokes he's fun to be around I knew him from movies all growing up

he just seemed like so New York to me totally but he's like all lit up all the time he's always on yeah so okay so you get I did all these things and you killed

I had a great set and Sarah's backstage Sarah Sherman is backstage she's gonna go on in a little bit. And she's like, I don't know if I want to do this. I don't know if I'm, if I'm supposed to be here.

And I was so full of that comedy juice. This is COVID. We're not performing live a whole lot. Yeah. To get a kill in front of 30 people is like, yeah, I felt like I was on drugs or something. And I poured it all into Sarah.

I was like, you are incredible. You are a performer. You're going to crush. I just gave her all of my like vibes. And then she crushed too. And we both got invited to New York. When I got the call that I was invited to New York,

I'm like, honey, it's not going to happen. Don't worry about it. You're not going to have to move. I said, go to Nashville, hang out with your mom. I'll meet you. We'll cool off from the disappointment of not getting the show yeah that was the plan yeah and i went up to new york um the first day was the um in studio in studio thing yeah and um i uh i was a little nervous about it my dad gives me these unhelpful baseball metaphors all the time. I don't watch a lot of baseball.

I love going to it live, but I don't know what any of the stats are. I wish I did. I'd love to be a sports guy. But my dad always gives me these baseball metaphors, and they always help, even though I don't have a tangible attachment to baseball. But his thing is always like, if I have a big show, he gives me the same speech where he's like you know the great hitters you know they're not

swinging all the way through it's it's right before that ball makes contact with the bat you let up just a little bit and it's that little bit of give yeah that that knocks it out of the park right that's you want it to have a little bit of flexibility. Yeah. And so, you know, the tests are on the home base, you know, where Tom Hanks stands and says, we have a great show, Hubestank is here. That's Zach Galifianakis' joke.

Yeah. And I just remember, I was like, oh, they'll give me a moment. So my heart's slamming, but I took a moment to do breathing exercises and come down. So I think I took 30 seconds to... While you were standing there? I'm standing there and I just like, oh, they'll give me a moment. So my heart's slamming, but I took a moment to do breathing exercises and come down. So I think I took 30 seconds to... While you were standing there? I'm standing there and I just go... I'm counting in four and breathing out eight. The things that my therapist taught me about making it through bumpy flights.

I'm doing bumpy flight breathing. And I came down enough. And then I just jumped into the Trump stuff. i did the exact same audition i did in la and everybody told me they weren't gonna laugh they laughed the whole time as soon as they were laughing i was like so relieved you know by the end of it i'm doing willie nelson and so lauren's there and everybody lauren's there and everybody it's so so weird. The camera's dead on. Yeah. You're supposed to play to the camera.

Yeah. Stage manager's standing next to the camera. All the writers and producers are way over in a corner to your left. Yeah. And I think it's like possibly is like a performance test to see if you're going to end up playing to the live audience. Right. Or if you're going to play to the camera.. Or if you're going to play to the camera. Right.

And you're supposed to play to the camera. Yeah. And not get distracted that all of the laughers are over here. Yeah. I don't know if that's part of their psychology of this process. Yeah. But I had heard from, I think Hannah Einbinder told me play to the camera because she had auditioned the year before.

And so I gave it all to camera. That was the right move. It went great. That night I got a call to meet producers. And the next day, you know, there's like a group of us waiting in the writer's room and we're all getting like called off to different offices. And I met Lauren pretty quickly. I just like, maybe my second meeting was with Lorne. Yeah. Did you have to wait to meet Lorne? I didn't have to wait very long. He made me wait in the middle of it.

I got called in. He talked to me for about 10 minutes. And then it was like he's sort of like, you know, and it's the Lorne way where he's kind of like a sphinx a little bit. He's like speaking in kind of temple riddles, like a Zelda boss or something. So, like, I come in and he's walking to a little bit he's like speaking in kind of temple riddles uh-huh like a zelda boss or something yeah so like i come in and he's walking to his desk and he's like he's like oh well uh you know we were in new mexico and will farrell excuse me forte um showed me one of your videos and we were having a good time watching it and like that's like the that's

sort of like the yeah the the lorn hello yeah yeah have a seat and all that and so i was like this guy has a vibe this guy has a way he does these meetings yeah his whole job is meetings with people with artists yeah so i'm like this is it was just surreal it was very surreal because you hear everybody's story about meeting lorne then halfway through it, he was like telling me some historical anecdote or something like that. Where I think I was just making conversation with him about, I had just been in Montreal. I knew he was Canadian. So I was like, do you like Montreal? Do you like Quebec?

He's like, well, I like Quebec City a great deal. And he starts looking at his phone. There's a hotel there. And he starts looking at his phone. There's a hotel there. He's just looking at his phone. Where, that looks out on a field where, looks at the phone a little bit closer.

Where the British, where the British defeated the French. This is the network. I have to take this. And he sent me out. He sent me out. And I think I stood outside of his office for 25 minutes or so while i talked to the president of mbc of the world yeah yeah yeah and um and i got called back in and you know he was like well the purposes of these meetings is to see if you're funny i think you're funny um you'll be wearing a lot of wigs um you, you'll get used to it very quickly. Um, you're seasoned,

so I'm not really worried about you. Um, uh, are you married? I was like, um, yes, I'm married.

And he's like, children. I said, I have, we're five months pregnant. He's like, where's the baby do? And I said,

Christmas Eve. And he like looked at the calendar on the wall of all the, when the shows are. he's like well you have a show on the 18th and then you'll have a little bit of a break and you'll have a you'll have the baby on the break and like i'm washing my hands in the bathroom after that and i'm just like oh is that it is that the show like yeah i'm on snl now and i have to call back and tell her like you are moving yeah at the height of your pregnancy you will be in a dead winter in new york yeah in the first apartment we could find yeah and we will deliver a baby halfway through like the most intense work period of my career yeah how about

lanty she when i so i was still afraid of flying so i took an amtrak a 24-hour amtrak to birmingham to go back to the south you have this horrendous fear of flying i did i think show business is thoroughly beating it out of me now now i love it it. Now I really enjoy it. You relax into it. Well, I get to go on first class now sometimes. Yeah, sure. You know, the champagne, the reading the book and looking at the clouds. Now I love it. And also I've just, you know, I try to work through the,

try to face the stuff that scares me and work through the stuff. Yeah, no control over it. Yeah. And it's just like, oh. You don't know how to fly a plane. I don't know how to fly a plane. And if I die, that's awesome. Then I get to die. Yeah. Then I never just like, oh. You don't know how to fly a plane. I don't know how to fly a plane. And if I die, that's awesome. Then I get to die.

Yeah. Then I never have to worry about stuff. I'm a dead guy. Yeah. Maybe I'll get there. That seems like a good way to look at it. Let's do mushrooms sometime and talk to death. But there was some fear still in me that I had to get on the train.

I think I wanted to just veg out and talk to anyone. I anyone right i i had just done you need some time i needed some time i had just done this netflix show i had just i had i had in between the netflix show and getting this snl audition had gone to new york separately to play donald trump in the carrie mulligan movie that just came out that she said you know she said about the harvey weinstein investigators so i gotta see that is it out yet it's out yeah and i guess i'm still in it as trump over the phone okay but they wanted me as a live actor screaming at carrie mulligan this is a drama yeah trump this is not a comedy trump right and so to have done that already and then get invited to come back to new york to audition for snl was just so strange yeah and and uh so so i think i had just gone back and forth doing

all these things and i just had this really intense period of my career that felt really intense to me at the time and i wanted to be alone i was on an Amtrak train, 24 hours. Coach, no sleeper. Just sitting there staring. And I was like, they didn't call. Sarah got the call. They hadn't called me. And I was like, maybe I didn't get the show. I never got the official pickup call.

And halfway through this Amtrak train, I got the Lorne Michaels call. and halfway through this Amtrak train, I got the Lorne Michaels call, and I think I had written my number down wrong on the contact sheet when I got to New York. So they had left a voicemail on some other Tennessean's cell phone. And so I got the call. I talked to him. He was like, where are you?

I was like, I'm on an Amtrak train. He goes, oh, what a glamorous life you lead. Yeah, yeah. And I immediately called my wife afterward and told her. And she just sobbed hard. It was just like, oh, just ugly sobbing. And I came back and it was just like, she was just like, I knew it was gonna happen. I was dreading it the whole time.

Dreading that it would? Kind of, yeah. Yeah. Because we were very happy in LA and we were nesting. She was nesting. She was building, we had a closet with all of the baby cabinets.

Like everything was baby proofed. Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? And that's what she was grieving. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You put all this work in. She had hormonal like nesting yeah that her bird's nest was destroyed right uh it was like her house was burned down to her wow but i was like i know this is hard for us right now but

like this is how i feed us for the rest of our marriage like yeah i even if i flame out rest of our marriage like yeah i even if i flame out spectacularly even if i fuck everything up for us and i'm but even if i become an absolute piece of shit yeah from now on it'll say snl in the corner of my poster and some people will come to my show i was like even even at the even even if i ruin our lives well i'll always be able to feed us because that's what SNL does. It's like I'll always be able to draw somewhat of a crowd because that's like the comedy Supreme Court or something. It's like the Olympics of comedy for america but it's like it's interesting that you saw it you know in relation to you know your life that you know this is you know despite how however we feel and whatever happens this will provide for us i was fully in dad mode yeah that was only thinking i was only in the terrified

pre-baby zone right that's probably the best zone to be in because it could have went selfish yeah oh yeah of course yeah if i had gotten this job and i was 24 and just a psycho and single and stuff i i don't know that i'd be able to mentally be able to ride it that's interesting your whole life prepares you like in terms of responsibilities and experience even if it was with christian broadcasting and this or that that by the time you get to this place you're emotionally grounded and professionally you've seen a lot of stuff yeah like there's nothing intimidating about the situation other than the the pace and the requirements yeah that's i had to learn all that on the job how to like keep up with i mean i had done jobs before but it was like as an actor it was i was the two days on

the two days on the courtroom show guy you know what i I mean? I'm lawyer with one line. Yeah. Number one. You guy sitting in a trailer. I'm a guy sitting in a trailer. Yeah. Yeah, reading a Stephen King book. Yeah.

Like I wasn't used to the pace of SNL. Sure. That's really, I think, what prepares you for the rest of your career is doing SNL. Yeah. Like now I can, now I actually do have, I feel like the, um, the skillset and sturdiness

to, to deliver. Yeah. You know what I mean? Sure. In any situation. In any situation, in any showbiz situation. Not going to be afraid anymore. Not going to be afraid and not going to get up in my head too much about something because

it's like, um, when you're waiting around all week for your show or your opportunity to get up there you can stew about it and and and truly get yourself to the point where you're going to suck yeah and snl you don't have the time to do anything but the first funny thing you think of yeah what i mean that's it's like if i if they if a writer comes into my office and says can you do eugene Levy? I have 20 minutes to like get something together for the table read. Yeah. I can't worry about if it's not good enough. Yeah.

And it's usually funnier that way. It's usually an impression is, I know this through SNL truly now, an impression is funnier if you like kind of grab it and just do your best with it rather than meticulously fine tune it over and over. But the thing that makes you gifted in that zone is what makes impressionists good or bad is that you have this instinct about, you know, which beat of their being to hit. To hit.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that's the whole trick. That's I think why dana even though dana carvey doesn't focus fully on sounding exactly like the person yeah dana finds the joke in them so quickly right and so spectacularly that that i think what's that's what makes him

the best like yeah um they told me i was biden the week I got there and I had to do it. The first, the cold open of my first show I was by. Yeah. And after I did it once, which was just like, I blacked out. I don't even remember it.

I asked for Dana Carvey's number and I talked to him for an hour and, and he, he just told me that's what that place is like. He's like, you just, sometimes you just just you just figure it out on the fly you figure it out in front of everybody on tv and my hw took me a year i was doing it i was doing it a lot and i didn't know what to do and he said all the the hands and the yeah wouldn't be prudent all of that stuff he just found after doing it 20 times you know right and so that really calmed me down i was like i'm gonna find this biden yeah i already knew what kind of what i'd like to do is trump but biden to this day is the one that each time i do

it i try something new because i want to i want to kill with it, and how's it going? You know, other people tell me I'm great at it. I will never be happy with any of my work. I'll never truly be chill about it. I'll always go, there's... Yeah, I know. I feel that sometimes. Do you know what I'm talking about? Yeah, I just did two shows last night

taping an HBO special, and I'm like, ah, did I? Yeah, fuck. You taped an HBO special. Last night, yeah. And you can't just love it. No, because, but yeah, but see, it's a similar thing that I realized too,

is that like, I've been doing these jokes for, you know, a year and a half now. So on a very basic level, it was another night of that. Right. And, you know, and like second show, only because new things happened.

Yeah. Like I had a little more looseness and things happened on stage that had never happened before. I feel good about that. Yeah. But it's just like, what was good about it? This one line. Like it never was there. And it'll never.

And that should be a beautiful thing about it. It is. No, I'm happy about that. You know, whatever. You beat yourself up. it never was there and it'll never and that should be that should be a beautiful thing about it it is no i'm happy about that yeah you know whatever you beat yourself up you beat yourself up and the truly the job is that show that night yeah that's that's what scares me about doing a special myself is like well i'll never like it as much as looking back on my year and remembering that one time in Boston. Yeah. Where that one thing happened. Where it felt kind of right.

Right. Yeah. It's weird though. But to find stuff on, in a high pressure situation, which you're doing all the time, is very exciting. It's really exciting. And there's something that removes that, it removes that self-critical element from it, at least the negativity of it to truly know like all i can do is the live show the live show is really all it is yeah and what happens at the

live show is what it is yeah and that is that clip and they're fit and they're taping it you're lucky yep they're taping it you sort of release you do get a release from the perfectionism yeah you you you and also they're not gonna the fans kind of don't like you uh like until they know you yeah they're still getting to know you yeah you know what i mean right you can you can kind of be there and you're like listening when they're doing the opening credits and you hear who's getting screams on their names and you're like listening when they're doing the opening credits and you hear who's getting screams on their names and you're like, they're just not going to scream at my name until they know me.

Right. And they're still getting to know me. Yeah, and you just got to accept that. You just go like, I'm a part of an ensemble and at some point, it won't be the third date anymore, second or third date anymore. Yeah.

Second or third date. It'll be, they'll be married to me. Yeah. And they will just know. Here he is. They'll know me. Yeah, there he is. And they're just excited to see me the way my baby's excited to see me.

Yeah. You know, so. And then you just wait until they resent you. And then you wait until they hate you. I've always hated him. Yeah, they hate you i've always hated him yeah they go i've never liked him for a couple years and then the you're then like the middle of your third season they're like i've always liked him i've always written hard for him yeah and then you know around your fifth year they're like he should have left two years two years ago like

that's this is i know i'm like i'm uh generalizing all of the youtube comments and sure av club reviews and all the things that you can look at after an snl and do you look at believe i'm really learning not to good because i just want to be a comedian good well congratulations you're doing good it's good talking to you was this this a good one? Did I achieve it? Oh, yeah. Yeah? It was great. How do you feel? It was great talking to you. This is really fun.

Good. This is honestly, it's on that list with JFL and SNL. Oh, well, thank you. The three-letter things that you can do. Yeah. Thank you. I think we did the whole thing. I got choked up in a couple places that you wouldn't have known.

It was good. Thanks, man. choked up in a couple places that you wouldn't have known it was good thanks man there's a story jesus this saturday is the final new episode of saturday night live for this year um that was uh if you're just tuning in for whatever reason at the end of a podcast that was james austin johnson all right you guys, hang out for a minute, will you? You can get anything you need with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So, no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats.

But meatballs and mozzarella balls, yes, we can deliver that. Uber Eats, get almost, almost anything. Order now. Product availability may vary by region see app for details hi it's terry o'reilly host of under the influence recently we created an episode on cannabis marketing with cannabis legalization it's a brand new challenging marketing category and i want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations,

how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Here's a reminder, if you're a WTF Plus subscriber, Thank you. WTF episode ad-free, so you can go all the way back to 2009 for episode 38, where I sat in a car with Kyle Kinane and reviewed the original Avatar. I think we're going.

All right, so I'm having a hard time breathing. I'm in the car right now with Kyle Kinane, and we just got out of Avatar. All right, I went. You bullied me into it. Not you, Kyle, but people who were saying that I could not judge a film prior to seeing it. I can't breathe. I'm having a hard time adjusting to the Earth's environment and the atmosphere. It's three minutes out of Avatar.

We pledged not to say anything from the time the movie ended everybody stayed to watch the credits because those were in 3d as well my my mind's a little fucked up i'm having a hard time adjusting to breathing really well we saw it in 3d it was it was pretty it was definitely was it worth a hundred million dollars an hour was with it was it 300 million dollars is that the price tag of it i hear that's the low end that Worth $100 million an hour? Was it $300 million? Is that the price tag of it? I hear that's the low end, that possibly it's going to be higher than that. Could they have spent more than $2,500 on the script?

Can I ask that much? An Army guy saying you're not in Kansas anymore? That's where I checked out the first time. Okay. Well, there were definitely some archetypes. And I'm using word in in lieu of the word hackneyed that's generous hackneyed uh uh um archetype hackneyed characters what were they what were they trying to get that they couldn't get i mean it was kind of a vague name for something that you wanted to have but it was difficult oh that it was unobtainium unobtainium because hard to get him

i think was used in another movie already tough to dig up him you can't find any of them the stuff we want is under these indigenous peoples homium unobtainium go fuck yourself come on really i i thought that that was a joke the first time he said it and i guess we can't be too much of a spoiler but uh 300 million dollars you couldn't have paid somebody to come up with a better you I thought that that was a joke the first time he said it. And I guess we can't be too much of a spoiler. But $300 million, you couldn't have paid somebody to come up with a better. You could have given me $100 and I could have come up with a better word for something you were looking for that was tough to get. There's an unobtainium. Unobtainium.

Yeah. Yeah. Or I hope there's some there left him. Yeah. Not much left him. Unobtainium. Wild. I barely remember that. Next next week it's director week ryan johnson is on monday scott cooper is on tuesday all right you guys open g i finally locked in to open g

so here's a little of that. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Boomer lives. Monkey in La Fonda. Cat angels everywhere.