WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1395 - Courtney Love

Episode Date: December 26, 2022

Courtney Love is finishing up her first record in more than a decade while she lives in London, perhaps permanently. Courtney fled LA because, as she tells Marc, she needed to get out of the “overculture.” It’s one of many realizations Courtney came upon in recent years, after a lifetime of ups and downs, peace and chaos, fame and infamy. Courtney takes Marc along for the journey as they sip tea in a London hotel.Click here to Ask Marc Anything and Marc might answer your question in WTF+ bonus content. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category,

and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Lock the gates! Alright, let's do this. How are you, what the fuckers? What the fuck, buddies? What the fuck,

Knicks? What's going on? How's it going? Where are we at? How was the day yesterday? What's everyone doing today? Are you home? Is there leftovers? Is this Boxing Day? How does it work? I don't know. I'm recording this ahead of time, so I'm not completely in the loop of what happened in real time yesterday, but I assume that the entire Midwest is now under a sheet of ice and people are chipping out of their homes, almost like people are coming out from under a frozen lake and they're finding a way to steal snow plows and tractors and the proper shoes with the spikes on them just to climb up and out of their homes today. That's what I'm assuming.

Maybe I'm wrong. Today, I talked to Courtney Love. How did this happen? Well, she's managed by my friend, John Daniel, who she refers to a lot. I'll preface this. I have to give you somewhat of a key to the episode. I've been kind of talking to John about it for a while. Maybe I could talk to Courtney if she wants to talk. It might been kind of talking to John about it for a while. Maybe I could talk to

Courtney if she wants to talk. It might be interesting to talk to her. She's a live wire. She's got a lot of history. She's a force of nature. Maybe we can make this happen. So when I went to London, he said she's in London and she's living there. I think she plans to stay there. She's been working on a new album there. And John reached out to her and she's living there. I think she plans to stay there. She's been working on a new album there. And John reached out to her and she said, okay, okay. So I didn't know what to expect. I'd never met her before. Certainly we all know Courtney. I mean, she's a mythic being, really. So I'd never met her before. She came up to my room and just started going. Now, her brain is on fire. And it just goes from one thought to the next very quickly, not necessarily in a straight line.

And sometimes it comes around. And sometimes it's just it is what it is. Now, I guess the reason I'm telling you all this is that I'm minimally involved in this conversation. And I would never really set up an episode like this but this is the way it was there was no you know it was just I'm just kind of there and she's uh and I'm I'm moving it along a bit but not much so I just let her go so look forward to that ride that will happen shortly. Also, we're doing an Ask Mark Anything episode for Full Marin subscribers next week. If you want to submit a question, go to the episode description and click on the link.

You can do it right now while you're listening and you don't even have to press pause. So the experience of meeting Courtney and talking to Courtney was really something. She showed up and just, you know, right out of the gate going, man, we're, we're, we're in Courtney speed. And we, she went on and on and it was great. And, and then she was gone and she left several items. She left a bracelet, some rings somehow. I don't know how she was losing things. There was a lot of stuff involved. She left a bag, brought me a bag with some presents. She left some, I think there might've been a hat involved. I'm not sure, but I do know that I had to text and say, there's a lot of Courtney left behind here. Does anyone, what are we doing with this Courtney? I texted her and she sent her

person over. Things were just falling off her, I guess. Maybe that's just the way she is. I don't know who's had an experience with Courtney, but when she leaves, is there usually articles of stuff like a shoelace, a ring? Things must have just been falling off her. I don't know, but she got them all back and she gave me a nice shirt and it was all very exciting. It was a high point of the trip to London and you're going to hear it. As we move into the new year, be grateful. We're all grateful, right? We're all grateful. It's the holiday season. Maybe things will be okay for a minute. Be grateful. We're doing a new show on the day after Christmas. We always do. We're doing our shows Monday and Thursday, no matter what. So this is this.

But I'm in the process of cleaning out, of cleaning house, both mentally and physically. I've started to go through the basement. I've gone through the office. I just cannot, I don't know where it all comes from, but it's time. It's some stuff is going for good, but I don't know what you do with this stuff after a certain point. Like there was this hope, you you know they're just boxes of hopes things that need finishing of things that need cataloging of things that need sorting but you get to a certain age you know i'm 59 i'm gonna be 60 it's like sort for what catalog for who you know stat what am i gonna do with this shit i've got a box of betamax tapes vhs tapes i've got a box of dat tapes

i've got a box of cassette tapes all stuff from me evolving as a comic some of it on television some of it in clubs some of it just from a handheld walkman that i used to record with but who fucking cares man i mean it's not like you know there's all kinds of gems there there was this idea maybe i'll digitize all these two all these old club videos or these old tv appearance most of them are on wtfpod.com in the video section anyways but there was this idea that maybe some of this club stuff that i was doing way back that i paid a guy to tape me i think the guy was the guy's name was wayne or somebody waving wayne's videos he used to do uh you paid a guy to tape me. I think the guy was, the guy's name was Wayne or somebody waving Wayne's videos. He used to do a,

you could pay him to tape you at a club in Boston. I think that was his name. I got a few of those from probably the late eighties. Huh? Who needs that? How really, how many hardcore fans that I have do really gives a shit about my work that much that if I start digitizing those

vhs's there'll be a a core group of people they're just like we got it man finally the lost maron shit before from before he was really good i'm not fucking bob dylan i gotta scrap it man i got fucking writing in boxes from high school you know like poems and stuff who cares i'm not i guess maybe maybe i can you know box it up and call it uh you know the papers and and get some some college to take it maybe maybe boston university my alma mater will take my papers and then and catalog them in the library my tapes and papers and post-its and pictures. What am I going to do with it? I go to bed every night not knowing whether or not I'm going to live through the night.

I don't know why. House collapse, heart collapse, things happen. And all I think is like, what's going to happen with all this shit? Then Kit's like, am I taking care of your cats if you die? And I'm like, what is that? Is that a proposal? That kind of stuck in my craw

and I'm like, who does get the poor cats? And then that's just a constant sort of source of weird heartbreak if I want to tap into it. But I think the plan is get rid of the stuff.

Get rid of it. What's that old saying? If you haven't looked at it in a year, throw it's that old saying if you haven't looked at in a year throw it away how about if you haven't looked at in five how about if you haven't looked at in 10 i got file boxes of stuff that you know like tax stuff and shit you don't even need to save that shit anymore it's like it just becomes when you know is this the final thing i'm gonna do when am i gonna throw this shit away Do I want to leave it to other people after I fucking kick it? Like, good luck with everything. Get some bags.

Get some bags. Just start loading up those old VHSs into bags. Dump all that high school poetry right in the bag. Take the body. Throw Mark in a bag and put him on a stack with all his shit on the recycle truck. Yeah, that's how I want to go.

I just want to be bagged with my stuff and thrown on a truck and taken to the fucking dump. Huh? That seems a little heinous. I think I'd rather be burned up. Burn me up. Scatter me on the dump with all my stuff. Burn me up and divvy me up. I don't know.

It's getting morbid as we enter the new year. The point is I'm throwing shit away, people. It's all going. It's all going. As I'm speaking to you right now, it wasn't when I recorded it, but I am visiting my father. I'll let you know how that goes. I do hope that all of you had a good time with the presents. Hope you got a fun present.

I hope that the people in the Midwest are able to get out of their homes somehow. I hope I'm wrong about that. I really do. I will let you know what's happening. And I do want to, again, preface this talk that you're about to hear with, Merry Christmas, man. Happy Hanukkah. Here comes the new year. Throw it away. Here comes the new year. Get rid of it. That's the saying. Here comes the new year. Bag it up. Take it to the curb. It's almost New Year's. Anything you don't need, give it away to somebody who could use it or bag it up.

Happy New Year. Bag it up. Throw that shit away already. No one cares, man. Your legacy is not in that box. Your legacy is not in that box. Your legacy is not in that box. That stack is not all you're leaving to the world. No one cares about your notebooks from 1982.

All right? Let it go, man. Let it go. You've left, I'm talking to myself right now. You've left hours and hours of conversations, of actual comedy that's available. Throw away the small notepad from 1984 that only has four pages with writing on it that you can't read.

Let that go. Let it go, man. Happy New Year. Bag it up. So listen, Courtney Love is about to talk. It's going to happen. Now, there are a few names in the talk that come up a bunch that aren't really identified.

J.D., I'm going to give you the key now. J.D. is Jonathan Daniel. He's a music manager and founder of Crush Music and a personal friend of mine. I believe he's been to both of my weddings. Yeah, that's a close friend. I believe has been to both of my weddings. Yeah, that's a close friend. Made it through one and said, this isn't going to work out.

And then came to the second in my backyard and said, why are we the only people here? Yeah. So J.D. is John Daniel. Milos is Milos Forman, director of The People vs. Larry Flint and Man on the Moon. Two movies Courtney was in. And, you know, this is it. Grab hold. It was intense sitting across from her.

But it's, you know, these are once-in-a-lifetime experiences, people. Once-in-a-lifetime experiences I'm having, and I'm grateful for it. I don't hang out with anybody after the fact. These aren't the building blocks of friendships necessarily, but I have these experiences. I have these conversations and this is me listening to Courtney Love. Are you self-employed? Don't think you need business insurance? Think again. Business insurance from Zensurance is a no-brainer for every business owner because it provides peace of mind. A lot can go wrong.

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Because my co-writer threw me out of the studio the other day. Yeah. He's fixed it some. Is he going to fix it? And this morning on my YouTube, there's something in the pandemic happened where YouTube's ended up on our TVs. And I delete it and it comes back. Yeah.

It was Joe Rogan. And I don't mind him. I don't like him. I don't hate him. And Anthony. Yeah. And, you know, I've known Anthony a very, very long time. Anthony.

Kiedis. Oh, yeah. And, you know, he's always had a lisp. Yeahiedis. Oh, yeah. He's always had a lisp. In fourth form in New Zealand, I had a lisp. And they teach you to put your T's together. But I'm just going to go with the lisp. I mean, Anthony's had it forever. I have a little bit of a lisp.

You do? Yeah, because I never was taught to do S's properly or L's. I was in fourth form. Yeah. Because I was doing Oliver Twist and I was really good at it. And so they, in New Zealand. Yeah. And they sent me to a guy.

But when you get your teeth all fucked with, because, you know, that's the bill when you're paying the, you know. I've got five years recovery. Oh, no. When the teeth go. Here comes the waiter. The body, ah. The body keeps score, bitch.

Isn't that right? Yeah. Serenity. This is great. I got this. Oh't that right? Yeah. Serenity. This is great. I got this. Oh, my God. Yeah. Yeah.

I'm glad I'm awake for the decay. Yeah. And then I got really sick. Like, no one in my family, like, they're mean, they're fat, they're college educated by me. And by that, I mean, like, Vassar, Berkeley. No, my lawyer sister, she paid for herself, NYU Stanford. But, you know, they're all healthy though. Yeah.

They're mean. Yeah. No one talks to anybody. Yeah. No, I have one nice sister in La Jolla. You know, my mother, it's real hard with like, I've been doing a lot of therapy for like seven years now. Here?

No, in LA. I have my guy from LA. Oh, so you do the Zoom? But he's Lacanian. Yeah. How does that work? Incredibly. But like, what do the Zoom? But he's Lacanian. Yeah. How does that work? Incredibly. But like, what's the process?

I don't know. It just works. But what's the talk? Is it like experiential? Everything from super spiritual, because there's a lot of Jung in there. There's a lot of Freud in there, which you have to reassess the shamanism. Like, if you're raised like me, West Coast, Antifa, my family literally thinks they're Antifa.

If there is an Antifa, they are. So they just change the names of what they are for whatever progressive radicalism evolves. Yeah. Hippie Trail, San Francisco. Yeah, yeah. Mother, you know, really wealthy, wealthy family. Yeah. And she was adopted by.

And father, who have done all this positive transference now, even though the behavior is unforgivable. But he made LSD. And so- He did. He did. He tried to be the Timothy Leary of the West Coast. But he was sort of involved with that whole circle, right?

Yeah, his roommate in Palo Alto was Phil Lesh. He managed the warlocks. He actually did do that because he had custody taken from him for giving me LSD. When managed the warlocks. He actually did do that because he had custody taken from him for giving me LSD. When you were a baby. Yeah. Which I kind of think with the reassessment

of psychedelics was probably an amazing thing. Maybe. Well, he always said it was. He said, I did it to make you a superior human. So then it worked. No, it did not work between me and Hank. but positive transference is where you take all the crazy shit your parents did yeah and you just stop being attached to it's kind of like radical forgiveness which sounds like submissiveness but all it means is like okay

I got 800 million dollars stolen from me these assholes did it and it doesn't bug me anymore right so moving on that's yeah well yeah it's sort of like uh yeah why live in the the trauma of it or the anger of it yeah that's why when my my forever crush bradley whitford was on yeah and that thing about his uh where he shared about what happened to him in sixth grade with the teacher and the romance of it um Yeah, yeah. First of all, I love that you guys were fucking laughing about it. And Bradley Webber, I remember Sorkin told me, I don't know how to say I dated someone

because I've never gone on a date in my life. I don't know that I've gone on a date either. I went on a date with Salman Rushdie to the Moth Festival. How'd that go? Well, I was just trying to stop Jonathan Franzen to find my grandmother, having never read the corrections to this day.

I don't read modern fiction. Why were you stalking him to do it? Because I could smell my grandmother. I'd met my grandmother once. Because she was a novelist. Yeah, she got famous in her 60s because of Franzen and Foster Wallace being an Iowa writer. Oh, they championed her?

This bitch is the greatest writer since Updike, yada, yada. Yeah. And then she was married to Mort Greenberg, whose brother was Clements Greenberg, the greatest American art critic. Yes. So when I really want to freak people out, because I've got, I did my DNA. I've got lots of Ashkenazi, but- Do you?

Yeah. Not from the Greenbergs, but I said justian snobble once i'm like yeah clements greenberg is my great uncle he's like wait you're jew royalty from brickland i was like yeah sure white by marriage but you know what yeah and snobble was like clements used to come and like cut my cat wait you're what yeah you know i think present in rock and roll presenting the old like in the in back in the day just going doing doing the Dylan thing and just presenting as from the trailer park, it just was easier. For you? Yeah, it was easier for anybody.

How long have you been here? Well, I ran. Yeah, from? L.A. and defamation by lawsuit and- Which one? Which lawsuit? The 10,000 of them. Yes.

Okay? Yeah. All in service of getting curse publishing and so here a yeah i've only dated one rich guy that i have gone out with some rich guys but that was more for food yeah this one i actually was super in love with and he not that he was asking but i'd have married Yeah. And he's still like one of my very best friends, but he had a hotel here. Yeah. And like, so he had a hotel. Right.

And all the guys I was, even though I was in recovery, all the guys I was writing songs with were like hunting for beats or Selena Gomez or JD called it like the other industry. He goes like, that shit's like Bieber. That shit's like, it's like pro tennis. And I was like, I think pro tennis has a little more integrity, maybe more than pro wrestling.

But anyway, no one was, I couldn't even like. You just wanted to make a rock record, a rock record. It's not rock. Yeah. I mean, it's a magnum opus because I haven't made a record in 12 years the one you're working on now the one I'm about to finish

yeah I think I think song 12 is in yeah because I threw four I've been slow like my guy's slow he wrote

I've written with two guys one wrote a lot of Born to Die with Lana including video games yeah and you know even when they are

they are chasing beats or they are they do want to write for Selena Gomez secretly they all love Radiohead and yeah or Coldplay even sure she's like okay first the albums and then I like Chris but secretly yeah they have they can't help it even like the the drill here like the the which is like a genre of hip-hop that I actually like yeah because it's melodic it's almost like Joy Division yeah do gangster rap The drill here, which is like a genre of hip hop that I actually really like. Because it's melodic, it's almost like Joy Division, do gangster rap.

There's just all these minor sevenths and depressing things in drill. It started in Chicago, but I like the UK drill. But yeah, no, there has to be a melody, a verse and a chorus and a verse. So it's not rock, because people aren't really doing rock anymore but it's um yeah you'll hear i guess that's true rock's not a thing although does that

bother you no not really no i mean it is weird to not be in a band and we did write two fucked up guitar songs yeah uh there was one this guy named anthony rossamundo who's like you know came here during the kills and libertines and got clean. And nine months later won an Oscar for The Shallows from the Gaga movie. Yeah, yeah. That's a good narrative, right? Sure.

That like, so he's a pro band guy. Yeah. And I've been in bands most of my life. And Justin, he's been in a band, but not like me and Anthony. Yeah. Anthony's just the guy you want in your band, right? Sure.

And anyway, the three of us, like we all realized that we all love the Pixies from all different points of view and we wrote this one song called during Amber Johnny

called Kill Fuck Mary and it's fucking great it's a rock song it's gonna be on the record and I'm gonna open with that oh good it's kind of a tease and then we wrote

a secret song that we can't put on because it's only two minutes and 24 seconds but it's a rock song yeah but it was swallowed why can we can't put on because it's only two minutes and 24 seconds. But it's a rock song. Yeah. But it was swallowed. Why can't you put it in?

Because it's called Justice for Kurt. And it's great. But like, we're like, okay, they're too stupid. It would swallow the entire narrative. Rock does not stream. In fact, I had breakfast. It would swallow the entire narrative. It's not worth it.

It's 224. It's an earworm and a half right okay if i'm gonna write a fucking song called justice for kurt it's going to be a fucking earworm right but i am not putting it on that record to ruin my record right like ruining more of my shit okay thank you love you but no thank you uh what else did he ruin he ruined my daughter like he's a ruiner the poor fucking guy first of all he only lived

27 years right 30 years ago right okay so A yeah I'm not

my daughter's not I'm not a professional JD does it yeah I'm so relieved your manager my friend yeah

yeah why I'm here today yeah friend of JD's friend of mine love him right I mean love him love I mean, love him.

Love him. That motherfucker, love him. He's done something I've never seen happen. I've had a lot of managers, and in fact, I had one pair of honest ones once, Cliff and Peter from Q Prime. Right. Who I will always be fond of because they did not steal. So.

They work you like a motherfucker. Right. But with J.D.'s bill, he's done it ethically. Yeah, exactly. He doesn't steal. Right. But what J.D. has built, he's done it ethically. Yeah, exactly. He doesn't steal. He's a straight guy. And also, he didn't want any chicks in 09 when I started stalking him. Yeah.

And I'm like, I promise you, I don't know what I'm going to promise you. Yeah. But just take a shot. And he did. Well, he appreciates you. I think I'm the fine art in the lobby at Crush, though. Because everyone's got mezcal and a coffee thing and wine and yeah anyway yeah no my shit's coming next year good well so wait tell me about this

kurt the ruiner business kurt the ruiner uh just everything like um i'll give you a good example you know what here's some secret hollywood actually this story involves brad pitt what i'm about to tell you here's the first thing kurt was the ruiner yeah like oh there were times i just didn't understand about yeah okay so he died yeah and obviously and by the way it's still percolating that i'm this um you know psychopath that you know killed him um let me ask you like a specific question can we get to the brad pitt kurt theooner? You do it. No, you go first. Okay. Well, no, it's just that that whole situation which was almost like

a foreshadowing. It's gone on to Gen Z. But it became a whole culture. But because you were a woman, because you were married to Kurt. I don't know. Whatever. I've seen it.

Because I'm a loud bitch. Who knows? I've seen like they came down on you. They still do it. I have to see Justice for Kurt. No, whatever. I've seen it. No, I've seen it. Because I'm a loud bitch. Who knows? I've seen, like, they came down on you and just... They still do it. I have to see Justice for Kurt. Kurt was murdered.

I don't go online, but when I do, my daughter has to see that too. So how do you manage that shit? I don't know. You just deal. I wrote the song, but I can't put the song

on the record. Well, can't you release it as a separate single? We'll put it out like eight months after the hoo-ha. The other songs are way too good to ruin it with two minutes or 24 seconds of me being sassy.

Yeah, but in terms of your mental disposition, you just have figured out a way to compartmentalize that shit. What do we say? What do we say? God doesn't give you what you can't handle. God does not hand out what you can't handle. So whatever my karmic lineage was, okay, I brought it into this life.

Family scapegoat, often scapegoat, but always teacher's pet. So, you know, back to Kurt the Ruiner, just, okay, A, I'm patient zero for gaslighting and getting some publishing off of me. And now it's tulip mania. So like my friend Ross Simonda, who wrote that song,

The Shallows, right? Got clean about the song. Ross has publishing, Gaga has publishing, Brad Cooper has, Bradley Cooper has publishing. But he told me like, dude, I was an Eagle Rock.

I was at a party. No one knows, I'm not famous. Like five tech bros. I'll give you 25 years and no capital gains. Like this Tulip Mania buying songs. So I was a full target to get Kurtz Publishing

from day one without even knowing. You have it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but I got gaslit into selling 25%. And it will never, ever, ever, ever, no one's ever getting near us again on that. You have an apple orchard,

and every year it grows apples. Yeah. And you get to keep that apple orchard in copyright land for, I think, 80 years. Was that before you hooked up with jd the 25 oh yeah yeah he wouldn't know that no he wouldn't know that no you know he wouldn't have that but you know who did it it's so banal it was like our a lawyer that all us hipsters know do you mean like yeah who did it like when you there's flashy people involved there's you know you can get so invested in it you know what conya is going through right now is really about money and we're not getting into that here but um you, there's flashy people involved. There's, you know, you can get so invested in it. You know, what Kanye is going through right now is really about money. And we're not getting into that here.

But, you know, it's in my rear view. It's about money and Jews. Well, I think Kanye is doing it all wrong. Yeah. And I had a little one-on-one with him last week. And I made two new rules. Can you communicate with him? Yeah.

But he didn't listen to a fucking word I said but A that's where female privilege comes in because if you're on the outside looking in if you've been scapegoated if you've been like

the most hated woman in America which is a thing I've been and again karmic lineage but also Milo's teacher's pet

don't ever underestimate me too much was that thing Gaga said about Cooper? You know, you'll be in a room with 100 people and one will see you. Me, it's more like 10,000. But one. I'll get the one.

I'll get the JD. Yeah. I'll get the Todd Phillips. Yeah. I'll get the Milos Forman. Yeah. Because, yeah, no, always. I always had teacher's pet as an archetype that I lived young.

Yeah. Family scapegoat, teacher's pet. I didn't know celebrities. I didn't know we were supposed to be likable. Right. I didn't know, I didn't have any interest in being likable. Yeah.

And so I made this new rule after this Kanye exhausting thing. Listen, I just tried to give him some input on where real power was. What'd you tell him? Well, I dated a guy named Edward Norton. Yeah, I know. And Edward Norton's family,

our class chasm was massive. And I didn't really realize how massive. Like he was born into a philanthropic family. So did you watch Succession at all? Like old money, like big money, like what does that mean? No, self-made grandpa. But on the Norton side, yes, he's Edward. He would not say, he's Edward Seneca Norton,

but there's Edward Harrison Norton, six of them. And then he's Edward Seneca Norton but there's Edward Harrison Norton six of them and then he's Edward Seneca Norton there's seven right all Yale yeah but on the grandpa on Rouse side grandpa Rouse loved me by the way yeah grandpa Rouse uh had got made it on the cover of Time Magazine two times man of the year this is Edward's grandfather's grandfather Rouse yeah who beat leukemia like three times wow and when he brought me home grandpa Rouse was like I love her. They always try and get the nail that's above the, you know, I kind of would have dated Grandpa Rouse. Actually, it would have been better.

Kind of the class castle between us was massive. He was born into a philanthropic billionaire family. Right. But I won our biggest fight, me and Norton's biggest fight. So his grandpa built a model town. He hated the Kushners because the Kushners,

if you ever watch The Wire, that's what Baltimore housing is like and that's the Kushners being slumlords. And James Rouse was like, fuck that. He invented the like

outdoor shopping mall. So like, Falil, South Beach Seaport, Pike Street. That was his first time cover. His second time cover was, fuck this. I don't was his first time cover. Yeah. His second time cover was,

fuck this, I don't want this to be Baltimore, and Serious Virtue. Yeah. Okay, so you ever watch Succession? Yeah. Okay,

there's one episode called Turf Haven, where the Logan family, kind of a hipster, are going to buy the PBS, sort of NYT-owning Pierce family. Sure, yeah. I scream. I'm like, that would have been me.

I'd have been Nan Pierce. So, you know, I could have been the matriarch, and all the kids around the neighborhood would have looked up at the tiara and the slip dress and go, ooh, you know who Mrs. Norton was? She used to be Courtney Love. What? So, Edward was like, because he came from that money, his father had been a really proper-

Do you regret not being that person? I'd only have married one guy that I have not, that I mentioned, the rich one. Oh, that's it. Not Edward. Yeah.

Yeah. We just had too much. So what about, I want to know how this informed what you told Kanye. Whoa, what I told Kanye because he had dinner with the Kushners. Right.

And I'm like, no. With Jared's dad and parents and brothers. He had dinner with Jared and Ivanka. Yeah, yeah. This was in the Tucker Carlson outtake, which I just watched. Okay. It wasn't the mainly, the stupid word salad,

because he thinks he's going to be safe over at MAGA. Yeah. You know, what he's, listen, my job doesn't involve being male. Yeah. And it doesn't involve flexing about how much money I have. Right. In fact, the opposite. Yeah. I don, listen, my job doesn't involve being male. Yeah. And it doesn't involve flexing about how much money I have. Right.

In fact, the opposite. Yeah. I don't have much. Yeah. I use my sister's credit line. Yeah. Like my rich lawyer sister.

I honestly do. I do. So, yeah, no, I mean, and also, there's kids and like,

you know, I like Kim. Yeah. I've known her since she was 16. Yeah. She's like, I like a girl that gets what she wants. Yeah.

And is happy with it. Yeah. But, you know, eat the world since she was 16 she's like I like a girl that gets what she wants and is happy with it but you know eat the world and the more thing and getting out of America and like having perspective like yeah there's a thing called enough right

I don't need to eat the world I know isn't there anything called enough I don't need a fucking startup yeah I don't need a building I don't know where they get the fucking I don't need a second home like

you know you got your Canadian green card yeah I'm not coming back maybe hopefully I'm not coming back you're not I'll pay taxes here yeah so you told what'd you tell him which one connie yeah i said to go have dinner with the rouses okay the democrat yeah the democrat power yeah right like oh so anyway at the dinner with the kushners connie's relating it and basically carly kloss's husband the the quote, good Kushner, who I've never met,

but allegedly, says to him that he owns a third of Skims, Kim Skims. Kanye's furious. Well, of course he is. You know?

But I mean, you know, my friend, I have a lot of good Democrat Eastern Seaboard friends who don't get it. They're like, he's gone over the line.

No, you guys, he just, he doesn't have female privilege he doesn't know how to downsize he doesn't know how to cut and run you know it's gonna end i don't think well for him i understand what he's going through but it's the way he's doing it yeah so okay so now we go from we go back to class separation i don't want to talk about condo anymore no we don't need to but last my rule last week, I got a flair. Yeah. And I made two new rules. Yeah.

One is, I get $1 in physical energy a day. Yeah. I am not giving you $20,000 for your madness. Yeah. Or $200 to present you an award. Yeah. I'm going to give that money to me to enrich my life and hopefully that of other people and be of service.

That's my dollar. Right. That's rule one. Rule two, if you don't, if you wouldn't ask Nick Cave, don't ask me. That's my other rule. Those are two good rules, right? Yeah. Biggest fight with Edward, we fought a lot.

Biggest fight, so his grandfather built a classless town, a model town called Columbia, Maryland. And it's beautifully done. And it's the middle class and the lower middle class and the working class and the rich and they all, there's no difference and they all live in the harmony together. How'd that work out? Well, it works out great in Columbia, but the fight was, I was like, well, let's go to the mall right over the road.

And it was all these fucked up goth girls and they mobbed me, which made him mad, right? And not proud of, I'm like, no, it didn't quite work. By the way, Edward would if you're scooting into the freeways to go play uh pool then you know whatever looking for the darkness yeah uh but then the fight was it's sad when they have to look right after we leave the goth girls that have just mobbed me in the car yeah he goes you know what you and keith richards did took a lot of risk but what i did which is not being the president of the united states took more and i'm like fucking okay whatever so cut to the first time kirk gets used as a shit now i'm in

this movie star world i'm turning down this after after the after me that was right after the first one yeah and i hated when mickey rourke got nominated and he went through his pass list. And this was a great rule of Edwards, actually. You didn't pass unless the lawyer's called the lawyers. Yeah. And A and B, you shouldn't talk about it. It's unseemly. Yeah.

But the one I am going to tell you about, I passed on everything. Yeah. One was a bunch of crazy girls and I was like, they're just exploiting your persona. He was as naive as I was. At one point edward yeah you know sure he thought anthony mingala was going to wait two years for him for cold mountain and like jude law was in there like that right like sure so you know we both had a lot of naivete and possibly entitlement in different ways yeah right right and um and uh

i mean i adore him and i adore his we fought mostly about integrity that was the big fight integrity integrity integrity integrity for like four years interesting because it's all it's all built on the keith richards idea well no and then and then something happened and then i did want to do a movie very much so and i finally figured out why i'm mad i didn't do that movie most of all because you know i shared this with Drew Barrymore where hers happened when she was seven with Spielberg no one's ever going to top Spielberg

for her for E.T. so she's self-directed from then right mine was 31 with Milos no one that is a 900 pound

girl that man filled you know father, uncle best friend, brother and one thing you and Bradley were talking about

I once saw him Baryshnikov and vassal pablo having a cigar okay milish's mother was killed in auschwitz his father was shot in front of him by the kgb he and voslav who went on to lead the velvet revolution and become the president he and vassal were put in a gulag for two years hard labor as lunatics because they snuck into a kgb ella fitzgerald and they put on a slightly satirical play. Like we don't know life. We've not gone through wartime.

So you know what, did your mom die at Auschwitz? Because mine didn't. So the rest is just candy. But this pissed me off anyway. So I want Fight Club. I want Fight Club, it's from Portland. I bring it to Fincher and this is the thing I'll never know I'll never know like yeah because when Bradley was talking I remember being at the Mercer and I remember hearing the opening

of Social Network and I can hear Trent right yeah I can hear I'm in the bathroom it's like Fashion Week in New York but Social Network was on my TV I can hear Sorkin's dialogue yeah I peek out and I can see that it's David directing. I was like, oh, three big men of my life. However, I don't think David thinks I'm a big woman of his life because here's what happened. David Fincher and me are the kind of people, we're a kind of a woman and a kind of a man who are terrified and angry at each other. Yeah. Just mythologically?

Just born that way. Right? Terrified of me, Fincher. Yeah that way right yeah terrified of me fincher yeah and i'm terrified of him yeah just the male and the female of that right and yet we were kind of getting somewhere yeah on fight club and i was like this is gonna be cool to see if me and fincher can do this you know 100 takes this kind of heavy. So you guys were talking it through? No, I mean, I had this role of Marla on Fight Club. And I get this phone call. I get the role.

So the lawyers have called the lawyers. Like, this is my role. And Janine Garofalo had a thing about two years ago. She's like, well, you know, Brad was like, Courtney's only getting it because of it. No, Janine, no. The lawyers call the lawyers when you get paid. That's because youine, no. The lawyer is called the lawyer is when you get paid. Yeah. That's because you got, okay. And like, I think I might have brought it to David

because it's a Portland book, but you put you on it. Anyway, so we got on these table reads. I'd gone and worked privately with David and I get this phone call. It's from Gus Van Zandt. And this is like 2.99 and Gus is having lunch with Brad Pitt.

And Gus says to me, and it's gotta be on a landline. I mean, there's barely cell phones then. and this is like 2.99 and Gus is having lunch with Brad Pitt and Gus says to me and it's gotta be on a landline I mean there's barely cell phones in but like this happened and Gus goes

hey I'm here with Brad we're talking about Brokeback Mountain and this is like 10 years before that movie was made and it was really

an X rated script in the old days and Brad must have not been in the vicinity because he lowers his voice and goes you know how he is about his sexuality.

I'm like, okay, what is this called? This is lunch, right? And then his voice comes back up and he goes,

Brad really wants to do a movie about music. And my thought was Chet Baker. It was 37 at the time, Brad. And Gore,

he was Zenith Brad, right? Yeah. Tyler Durden, Zenith Brad. And then, and then they both get on the phone

and it was like the hell mouth opened oh my god we want to do it about kurt this is like 2000 no one's ever done this like and 22 years later i still kick myself for not having the shark instinct to be like, sure, and fuck him later, right? Yeah, right. I win nuclear. I don't do fouls to the fuck you fuck. Yeah. Edward gets home.

He starts sobbing. Yeah. He sobbed kind of a bit. His mother had just died, so he was very much allowed. Yeah. But he was like, I don't have the power. Well, I don't have the power. Yeah.

And my landline rang at six. And it was David Fincher. And I knew it was going to be him. And I'm like, don't, don't, don't. By the way, God bless Helena Bonham Carter. She's a genius. I've never seen that film. And yeah, he fired me.

Because it got back. Because I wouldn't let Brad play Kurt. But then when I was talking, Todd Phillips was like, because I had to Zoom with Brad because now he wanted to produce Kurt, right? With Plan B. And that was 20. This was the Van Zandt movie?

No, there never was one. There was no project. I'm so dumb. I'm so dumb. I've been kicking myself for 22 years. Yeah, but didn't he make that one that was sort of supposed to- Gus did.

Gus shit the bed. Yeah, that's that's gus that's a whole other story so it's gus and brad yeah but brad's you know my friend cameron crowe was like i don't think he meant it as literally as it's become but like brad pitt was put on this earth to stalk you for kurt which has been going on since 96 like yep really yeah not in that the 96 was in a fun way but you know like the the whenever Fight Club was and then 2020

yeah they wanted to produce a plan B really bad yeah and I had a Zoom with him here and I I stuck up for myself and I said

listen man you know I don't know that I trust you and I don't know that your movies are for profit they're really good social justice movies

but you know I think since he lost a lot of rosé they you know might be justice movies but you know i think since he lost a lot of rose they you know might be uh these days but um i was like if you don't get me you kind of don't get kurt and i don't feel like you do brad and anyway that was it we left it as zoom what he wanted to do exactly produce it plan b is his production yeah but he what a biopic yeah but yeah yeah which is like something that we are going to do, but we'll do it with like Pam Abdi and Mike DeLuca

because they know how to make a fucking movie. I just watched that. Oh, you know what? I texted him. I couldn't help it because I found out he had a side deal with this guy Toby at Warner Brothers that no matter what I did, if it was at Warner Brothers, Plan B was going to get a piece of it.

And then I went nuclear on him for the second time in my life. this is uh this is a Kurt Brunner story yeah Kurt ruining Kurt ruining poor Kurt and the other thing about Kurt is he only lived 27 years so he never put a foot wrong like you know the diaries everything Brett like he never everything he said about the you know the oppressive white man, about feminism. She's a townie getting near these really cool Marxist girls at the college. I remember him telling me about losing his virginity. He's like, I didn't want to exploit her by putting my hand on her.

He never put it wrong. Never said a racist, never said a sexist, never said, you know, never. Yeah. I just interviewed that guy, Brett Morgan. I love Brett Morgan. Did you like that doc? never, yeah. I just interviewed that guy, Brett Morgan. I love Brett Morgan. Did you like that duck? Oh, yeah. The Bowie?

No, that. Yeah, Kurt, yeah. With Kurt, what I did with him is, again, I handed him the keys, and I said, I'll see you in four years. Right. And it didn't bother him. And you trusted him.

Yeah. The way that Milos trusted me. Yeah, yeah. You know, there it is. Yeah, and you thought that was a- Milos trusted me. Yeah. And yeah. You know, that's, there it is. Yeah, and you thought that was a... Milos trusted me. Yeah. And when he would always

tell the story and say, I asked Courtney, Milos Foreman would say, I asked Courtney, will you give me your word you won't do drugs on this movie? And I did.

Yeah. And I didn't do drugs on his movie, which isn't so great for 12 Step, but anyone can white knuckle five months. People in 12 Step

are grownups, they know what's going on. Okay, and when you give your word, you know, anyone can knuckle five months. Sure, sure. So I white knuckled five months people in 12 stuff are grown-ups they know what's going on okay and when you give your word yeah you know anyone can knuckle five sure right so i white knuckle five months and i absolutely did not shoot a frame of that on any mood mind altering so so the idea that kurt he like got out you know without sullying himself because he had 27 yeah but also i've lived 30 years longer i've had other. I've almost gone married twice. How's Frances?

She's really good. She's offline. She left the overculture. She lives in a beach town. She skates. The overculture. Lana Del Rey gave me this word. And I told it to Chris Rock, who's obsessed with it too.

The overculture is what we used to call the mainstream. And Lana got it from Clarissa-esque know women who run with the wolves whatever right youngian yeah the over culture is like now when you get famous it's a you know me you and i are out like we're old we have our stick and we're sticking with it and you're going to canada i'm here right nick cave had we all were out like some kid like doja cat or whatever yeah you know it's a 360 degree like they see every up your panties everything bad that you've ever said that whole chinese one person one file like yeah the kids will know yeah like one thing i saw there was a tiktok thing of mine i had snapped about uh in 1998 regarding yeah you know it was rock it was

the mtv awards and someone was like asking me, dragging me for wearing something nice to the Oscars and I snapped and I said something really brilliant

and thousands of girls start lip syncing. We as females have thousands and thousands of years of fashion and DNA. That's just what we do. If you have a chance

to go to the Oscars and something nice, you would too. This is boomer, Bruce Springsteen, denim rock male critic bullshit. That was amazing, right? I'm not on TikTok, but I saw it, I was like, Jesus.

Yeah, what about some shitty stuff I said? Going up's cute, going down must suck, right? Like, you know, I've said some dumb things. So yeah, no, like over culture where they're looking at all angles. Do you feel, are you... I'm off line. Yeah. If Nick Cave isn't doing it,

I'm not doing it. Well, I mean, I... I'm Loud Girl Nick Cave with more wings choruses. Right, but I mean, I do my thing, but I know that I'm aging out and I'm fine.

I am too. That's fine. Oh my God, right? Yeah. But I wanted to say, though, like... But, you know, that's a lot to do with recovery,

you know? And one of the reasons... It's hard to accept, but it maybe has something to do with recovery. But these wanted to say though, like, but you know, that's a lot to do with recovery, you know? And one of the reasons I've heard to accept, but it maybe has something to do with these people on P2E meth and this fentanyl shit. Yeah. The rooms aren't ready for that. No, you know, I have to go to another Joe and Charlie,

which is great on the 12 steps. I'm in a 12 step program of recovery. In fact, I'm in one called chronic pain anonymous that I was scared to go into, but I'm in a few but you know another Joe and Charlotte John Barleycorn and sugar and fermentation no this shit is fucking people up

I think you know I agree with Russell Brand that everybody needs a spiritual rebirth everybody you know one thing about my religion is we pray twice a day we actively pray how does it work

i have a like a mandala called the gohanzen yeah i've been doing it since 88 this is classic namio rengake and nichiren buddhism but you pray twice in my book on convalescence it says go do a pilgrimage yeah and i got a lot better yeah like i'm here talking to you today all my hair fell out uh i was 92 pounds when i died 88 no two years ago not even 18 months ago yeah i died almost like almost died from what anemia oh from from this genetic thing no from this this not genetic i think i gave it to myself by eating too much dairy because when i was like just doing xanax all the time in la i just ate ice cream and cheese it's not in my family like yeah i fucked, I fucked up my colon, bro.

Like, fuck. But I just want to say, you know, publicly, not that I'm the only person that knows this, obviously, but in the face of all the adversity around Kurt the Rooner and conspiracy theaters. We love Kurt. Yeah, of course. But conspiracy theories and everything else is that, you know, the reason why you're undeniable is that you have the goods we'll see with this record

but I'm just saying I know I have the goods with this next record yeah I'm not interested in old so much I mean Dave Navarro called me

and he had a 12 string version of Teenage Horror and I'm like I think I'll keep that yeah you know so it doesn't go away get out there

oh yeah Teenage Horror yeah and you know it says a lot to me but then there's other things that I just like I killed Violet because JD's like you sure you you're playing kind of a hit yeah and i'm like there's

two reasons i'm like it doesn't fit the brand anymore and also dude if you want me to play albert hall and i sing violet the show's done i'm old my boy, Mark, when I sang it for the last time on film, my DP is Christopher Nolan's second unit guy. He's incredible. What are you shooting? Is it a doc? This was in Japan when I was shooting. I got stood in the end by a production company who shot my convalescence

and shot my pilgrimage and shot me killing Violet. So we got all these kids and it looks better than Sophiaia's um uh place looks in lost in translation yeah it's really an incredible karaoke place but i'm like okay singing violet for the final time yeah and as i sang it for the final time i was like shit no wonder i scared people i'm scary whoa because there's so much mojo coming out and then my voice cracked a little because I'm 58 I was like

whoa can't control the note anymore well shit no wonder I scared people got a lot in me back then still do but in a more moderate way

yeah with recovery sure and a little age radical forgiveness you're all forgiven I'm not mad at anyone swear to god when is this doc gonna be out uh okay so someone pitched me a doc uh and i was like i

don't want to do a fancy bbc behind the music he's like no take it take the take you know very big on yes yeah take the meeting and then took the meeting whatever anyway this guy shot me uh he's his name is trevor murphy and he's one of my my old pa's five murphy brother the dps of ireland so if you're shooting in ireland game of thrones or vikings yeah you're shooting with the murphy brothers yeah and he shot me and he made me look really good yeah and so i always knew he was gonna be my dp and then i kind of fell out with this chick. And he was like, hey, can I put myself forward? And I'm like, sure. And I said to my therapist, my Lacanian therapist, with four PhDs from Reed, which I know, I completely make fun of him about that.

Is that Oregon? Yeah. It's where Steve Jobs went and made it. Hippie school. They make their own LSD. Yeah, yeah. But he's got one he just sort of threw down, he has one on feminine sexuality.

I'm like, wait, what? Yeah. Like, I didn't even know that he had that PhD. Sure. Then I sent it to Dr. M. I'm like, okay, give, because, oh,

I'd seen the Nick Cave one that it was getting 20,000 days on Earth that wouldn't like tell your ride and blah, blah, blah. And I love Nick Cave. I've loved Nick Cave since like his,

before his Hollywood phase. Yeah, he's here, right? He lives here, yeah. Yeah. But I love Nick Cave. I've loved Nick Cave since before his Hollywood phase. Yeah, he's here, right? He lives here, yeah. But I think he wants to live in Malibu. Oh, really? Yeah, he's doing an art collection with Brad.

Brad's switched up. He's like, you know, Grohl, not so much on brand anymore. I'm going to Nick Cave. I'm like, oh, God, Brad, leave me alone.

LA's going to burn. There's no water. I'm out. I'm so glad I'm out. Why would you want to go there? You know? Actually,

I saw Coldplay two years ago when they played here and they only played one show at the Natural History Museum. I like Chris Martin. I saw him after

and he goes, hey, you know, because when I grew up, I thought I was always going to live on Point Doom. Sure. Right?

Yeah. And he said, I'm like, how are you doing? He's like, Divorce Boys Row. And I start counting that street. It's Sean, who at that time how are you doing? He's like, divorce boys row. And I start counting that street.

It's Sean, who at that time was Merritt Penn, who was married to kind of, it wasn't going to work out. Neil Strauss, who I love. Mike D, the guy from Snow Patrol,

the guy from Muse. And then, Streisand's at the end. And then I was like, I've never driven a car in my life. I don't know how to drive. And I don't surf. I'm staying here. They got lost. They like a middle in my life. I don't know how to drive and I don't surf. I'm staying here.

They got laws. They like a middle-aged broad. They're going to make one a queen. Right? They stand, I mean, they're going to make one a queen that, you know,

would have been a super villain. Right? And like, I'm like, no, man, laws. They got laws, four seasons, and also excellence.

Less guns to no guns excellence they're really into you can excel and also the discourse so remember you know when i opened for lana if you ever want to be mortified open for someone half your fucking age and the only reason i did it was six shows so i could get back to the hollywood bowl because they were like the one person we won't back out back this court so it was a spite thing a a closure? No, but also I met Lana who became an actual true great friend and on the record

I would say that and this is by no means putting away Stipe or Bono or fucking Nick Cave but Lana and Kurt are the only two true musical geniuses

I've ever known and by that I mean they can Spielberg anything. So like Lana recites Howl. I gotta dig in to Lana. You got it. You maybe won't be able to because you're a dude.

But when Lana recites Ginsburg's Howl, I mean I'm born four blocks away from City Lights. Like Howl is like I know every line. Sure.

She feminizes Howl in this kind of Marilyn-esque-y voice with like, you know, Antonoff playing, you know, spoken fucking word, not my jam, right?

Jack's playing i think on how i might be old i think justin my dad's playing on it yeah actually because she did it she did her um spoken word thing with jack yeah but uh no man you listen to lana's howl i heard things in howl from a feminine perspective that i mean my poor ginsburg he was such a gay man you know whatever but every gay boy and every girl can hear Howl now. And Kurt had that with them when he did Unplugged and he was going to do the Meat Puppets. I'm like, those guys suck. What are you doing?

And he played me. I was like, no, their songwriting is really good. And he played me like, you know, where do bad folks go when they. I was like, somehow he Spielberged it. Do you know what I mean? Like, same with Lana could do that. Spielberged it. But she's a genius genius too she's got the integrity that kurt had you know like the only two people i know that i can say that i know you know because i don't know neil young whatever i do there's two people that i know that i love that are honorable and good friends yeah and um

my god and by the way stipe bono yes these are people that i know and love billy joe sir yeah but lana yeah she's got a magic thing yeah she's not even fucked up yeah i mean yeah so actually she would only listen to things on i want to just get to my family here we were at a day off of course in portland and she'd only listen to things on vinyl and she described a record she wanted to make to me and i'm like oh you mean hiss she wanted to make to me. And I'm like, Oh, you mean hissing of summer lawns, which I don't even like that record.

But she's like, what's that? I'm like, it's a Joni Mitchell record. She goes, who's that? Wow. I know we're in Portland.

And this was my one contribution that I'm very excited that I was able to make. I went out in Portland, which is nothing but vinyl stores. Now that it's Portlandia, I got her all the Joni. And you know what? Yeah.

Changed her fucking whole thing and so then like like my boomer my boomer rock critic friends are calling after norman rockwell hey your friend she's pretty good yeah yeah right like and i said i'm like welcome to the thunderdome is delray even springsteen yeah he goes she's our greatest songwriter i'm like dude you're in this is crazy don't go insane yeah and she hasn't no she got out of the over culture no she's out too she deleted all her social fuck that shit you know you can't keep sober with that shit i guess that's true you know you can't man yeah so the dog oh and in portland also when we opened for i hadn't met see my sister forever uh my lawyer

sister that i didn't pay for college. Not the one from San Diego, the other one. Yeah, anyway, Jamie is her name. She's cool, she's a lawyer. There's like a, you know, many million dollar, I used to work at like in Palo Alto, like Cisco, whatever. Yeah. Cyber security.

Yeah. Married a Yale guy. But I meet my four-year-old niece and she's trans, right? And Jamie's like, she's trans, these are the pronouns. I'm like, yeah, no, I know, of course. And Jamie's trying to put her on Ellen and there's trans right and jamie's like she's trans these are the pronouns i'm like yeah no i know of course my family and jamie's trying to put her on ellen and there's no dissent and like that is my family yeah and then you know i have my black brother that my my um frank and linda adopted from tennessee when he was three that then my mother just changed her mind about and left him

in new zealand wow in the 70, which didn't really have African Americans. And do you know that guy? Yeah, I'm friends with him. Yeah, he's my brother. Yeah, Joshua. Yeah, he's my fucking brother. I like him, by the way, a lot. Not all of them I like.

Well, I don't dislike any of my half-siblings. I just don't know a lot of them. Yeah. And your folks, they're both gone? No, Hank died. Right, so your mom's still around? Yeah, yeah. She's more problematic to do the... Forgiveness? They're both gone? No, Hank died. Right. So your mom's still around? Yeah. Yeah.

She's more problematic to do the hero's journey. No, more hero's journey to like romantic. Like I do respect that she walked away from the male gaze. Yeah. Like I didn't see an ugly vista, ugly town, or an ugly man. Yeah. Except some of the naked hippies, but her husbands were all gorgeous yeah right so you know but like i wasn't allowed to watch the oscars share no barbie yeah disney evil you know all that shit so of course i wanted it you know when i grew up do you ever feel

like because i you know do you know rob delaney he's an actor in the community he's he's i just talked to him earlier today. No. He's good. But he's just written a book about losing his son. We were talking about grief. Do you have waves of grief? Yeah, sometimes. Yeah?

I did the other night. You did? It just comes? Yeah, I feel really bad about Kurt sometimes. Yeah. It's weird, right? Yeah. I do.

I do. Yeah. I don't know if I've done it all the right way. Yeah, there's weird, right? Yeah. I do. I do. Yeah. I mean, I don't, yeah. I don't know if I've done it all the right way or. Yeah, there's no right way. You know. And so public. Yeah. And so public.

Yeah. And then I had to go on tour. Yeah. So I am thankful for those shows, though, because they were crazy, cathartic. Yeah. Whatever the fuck was coming through me was a lot of rage. You know. Yeah.

I mean, of course. Of course I do mean of course of course i do yeah of course i do do you and francis ever talk about it yeah yeah yeah i mean a lot of times she you know especially after carrie died i think i was reassessed because francis's oldest friend is carrie's daughter billy and i think like the kooky mom thing i think i might have been reassessed a bit um on the dial. I mean, Carrie dying was so fucked up and horrible. And it's weird because she, yeah. Carrie Fisher, how old was she?

Sixteen. Wow. Sixteen. She died on the plane taking off. And then we were told she was alive at UCLA. But she died in a rooftop, like, whatever. Yeah. Because I went and sat in her seat, which was terrifying.

Yeah. But like, when I was staying at the hotel, the ex-boyfriend's hotel, she lived in that room. Yeah. She'd been my neighbor

for many, many years. So when I became a movie star, the estate was like, oh my God, you know, Edward Norton's coming up here.

His dad was a former, we better do something. And they gave me like $10 million go away. Yeah. Which I did. Yeah. I'm like,

okay, fine. And I bought a nice house next to carrie yeah and our daughters became they're born um a month apart and they're really really tight and so i feel like yeah i mean francis often thanks me for like sticking around oh that's good yeah i'm glad i stuck around too i'm glad you know i'm glad she's out of the hole because because she had a record deal, two record deal. I think she came to the conclusion, I'm not built for this shit. And what it is now, it's not getting famous anymore.

It's the overculture. You're looked at a 360 way to be able to be a product. You can't represent values. You've got to be, I don't know, a fucking Disney product. Yeah, I don't even know how. You have to be. Make bops can't you know you've got to be i don't know fucking disney product yeah i don't even know how you have to be you have to right but you also have to have some sort of infrastructure of people to you know kind of run the whole situation i don't i can't wrap my brain around it quite now what about with the other nirvana guys you bad you're

okay we're cool yeah oh good i feel like also you know like you know remember like Pat Smear is my oldest friend right that's right yeah so like actually one of my oldest friends

Joe Mama showed me in 1983 La Di Da in the LA Weekly where Pat who are one of my last

names to be loveless like JD right and he's like no love's way more popular

I'm like I don't want to be popular he's like no trust me on the love thing. And then he whips out that Robert Indiana love statue that had been Darby Crash's. It was like a big 19-year-old dead, what did he die at?

20, 19 or something. Very young, yeah. Right. And also, this is, he didn't want to do it, but I'm like, give me a germ sperm. There's my germ sperm. A germ sperm? A germ sperm is when a member of the germs in the 80s in LA would put a cigarette out on your skin. Oh, right.

Germ sperm. But in 1983, it says like, literally, it's 83, like the Fishbone and the Peppers have played that night like they have every night since 1920. And the Dickies have played Knott's Berry Farm. And it's gotten, you know, turned, and there's all these names. And then Pat Smear from Vagina Tantara and his friend, Ms. Love. And just as that. That's my first time in Lottie Dock because I sent it to my oldest gay friend. And I'm commenting, I fucked him.

He's fat. What a cunt. Blah, blah, blah. Look, I know whose coattails I'm writing on. And I remember Kurt just being like, do you know anybody happy that could be in my band? And I really didn't. And I was like, I do. I know a dude.

He's working at the SST Superstore with the guy I married that one time, retail. And he's in the germs. Maybe not the world's best guitar player. I don't know now, but back then, I'm like, but he's really happy. And then I called. And weirdly but back then I'm like but he's really happy yeah and then I called and like weirdly

the narrative has gotten like yes that happened but maybe murky-ish because you know Market Forces versus Courtney things yeah which will get corrected

I'm not worried about it sure eventually but yeah no he's in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Pat Smear oh yeah how about that shit it's great

yeah so and then Dave you know went through this whole fucking thing so Pat's gone through losing a band member three times with Taylor. And Dave's gone through this. And like, you know, man, it's just like, yeah, we're done. Our kids are going to be doing business together. Their kids are going to be doing business.

Fuck this shit. No. But I will say this about Grohl. It's annoying. The narrative is so strong that people like to do. If you dig into it, because I'm friends with Stella McCartney, if you dig into like Yoko and

Paul and Linda, it isn't what people think it is. And by the way, if you watch that Peter Jackson, there it is, right? It's a fucking girlfriend. Like, whatever. But the Yoko thing is strong, and like, I can't do anything about it's got to be girl girl's got to be the bigger man he's got the male privilege yeah

you know when i came in out of recovery five years ago my sober companion is a guitar tech he's like court the foo fighters are the biggest band in the world i'm like no they're not like how do what yeah they don't sell more than you two yeah they do they don't sell well Van Halen I'm like what and then my friend was like he's been there guitar trick he's like

we went to see them in France or something we went to dinner and we had dessert and wine and we came back and they were still playing he's an athlete

they played five hours a night and I was like how many albums I hadn't paid attention to anything for a long time 20 some records

I'm like oh my Dave's running how did that happen Dave got so big anyway Taylor died and you know

we were cool before then but when Taylor died I feel like we had a really good talk you know so I was like look

we weren't brats isn't it your fault you know some of us have a propensity to opiates and they were like they weren't just

growing on trees they were being thrown at us lobbed at us. Yeah, yeah. And I'm not saying I'm not taking responsibility for my part in my disease.

No, I get it. But I am saying that that thing with Taylor was a fucking one-off. Could go shitty for any of us one of those nights. Well, now even more so with the fentanyl.

Who the fuck knows? That's my point. That's what I'm saying in those talking points about psychedelics. It's like with this whole fentanyl meth thing, like MP2E meth.

I mean, listen, I did crack for a while. If you ever want to ruin your life, like trust me, do crack for nine months. Like nuke the whole damn thing. But holy moly. And then fentanyl can be in blow. I have a movie star friend. Yeah, they died.

People died. They dropped dead. I know, I have a movie star friend who was at a party in the hills recently and two people died of coke fentanyl. It's fucking crazy. It's fucking nuts. So what I'm saying is,

I think that spiritual recovery is really, really important. But having reassessed some of the psychedelics, I don't want to do psilocybin. But I think LSD, I think psilocybin, I think esketamine. I have a friend who's in the program and her sponsor

signed off on MDMA trauma therapy you know sure I tried that you know EMDR do you ever try the EMDR

no what is that is that a drug no it's a therapy where it's a trauma therapy what is it tapping yeah a little bit of tapping tell me what it is well they give you

either sensors that you hold on to or they use a light wait are we talking about Scientology now no no no. No. It's a process that kind of moves your trauma centers to the other part of your brain so

you don't hit them all the time. Okay. So you go through the trauma. You do this sort of like this light thing. It's not hypnosis. I can't quite explain it. So like you're kind of following a light like that. Yeah, it takes it.

So and you go through these points where you talk about the trauma and you evolve the vision of what you're experiencing in it as you do this other process. And apparently it sort of disarms it so you can't keep hitting it like it's a goddamn drug because that's what we do with trauma. You keep it fresh. I'm supposing I'm deep enough to go into my super real trauma. trauma you keep it fresh you're supposing i'm deep enough to go into my super real trauma like like the trauma that really triggers me is the financial assault and then and then that i just don't talk about it don't deal yeah don't right deal with kanye going through it you know yeah if i don't deal with it and don't say anything about like the whole britney thing drove me insane it was the same people tried to do the same thing to me in a different fraternal twin of

conservatorship so they could get, Ruhner, poor Kurt, his publishing. And Lame and Likeness and all those things. But that was super triggering. Even though I was really helpful with Samantha Stark who did both of those documentaries, my motto for the New York Times is this, for the whole New York Times,

the whole New York Times, everything, barely there, too late, and just enough. Yeah. And I've seen that with Harvey now, and I've seen that with Britney. That should be under the New York Times. Yeah. Forget the Pierce family having Teddy Roosevelt's thing in Shakespeare. Barely there, too late, and just, I don't know about politics, but I think I might be

right there. Yeah. Maybe. You want to go smoke? And like, I think we talked it through. Wait, no. We didn't do anything funny, though. Like, when you and to go smoke and like, I think we talked it through. Wait, no, we didn't do anything funny though. Like when you and Bradley Whitford,

like I need to kick his ass. Like you were fucking laughing about Molly's. I can't go deep enough into my trauma. I go deep into my money trauma. You're okay. We did good.

I don't think so. I think we did good. Were we funny? Yeah. All right. I mean, but you know, the thing that's amazing to me.

I don't give interviews a lot and like you just, you find yourself telling yourself narratives that like, are just lies. And that's why I don't do them. Well, I don't feel like there's, I didn't feel that. I feel what happens is, is like, you know, you're almost, you know, in terms of the origin stories and, you know, everything that you've been part of or seen or even just walked through are all integrated into this sort of like like you're like sort of a walking mythology yeah you know what i think i think you're a vessel that woody allen didn't even know what

zellig was about when he wrote zellig like i got too much zellig shit and that's female privilege yeah you've been left out enough you know you got picked last on the football team long enough yeah you've been there like the pariah but also the teacher's pet long enough eventually you start to get the wisdom yeah to like go like oh that shit didn't even piss me off anymore but you moved through so many worlds yeah yeah you know before you knew and then after you knew yeah and i think this documentary is going to be about this record my history and what's great is that when i called todd phillips because i wanted todd phillips to do kurt you know if anybody i felt like anybody could handle kurt if he could handle joaquin in that fucking situation and not die, either of them.

You know, like, and I know. I was in that movie for a minute. You were? In Joker. That's right, you were. I was the TV producer. Right, I remember. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, because he cast great. You know he took Starsky and Hush off his IMDb? And I was like, Sullivan's travel, motherfucker. That made me laugh when I was sad. Put it back on. But anyway, he's doing Joker 2 now. Yeah. But when I called him, so A, I bugged him about doing Kirk because I didn't feel anybody else.

I didn't feel him I trust, right? For the doc or for the feature? For the feature, for Kirk. And he thought about it. He really did. But I can't compete with Joaquin going over there playing backgammon every day. I mean, I'm not. Anyway, he was incredibly considerate.

He's like, I don't know the bandwidth. And I was like, well, you produce it like I don't know the bandwidth and I was like will you produce it I don't know the bandwidth okay we stayed friends and then when

shit went south whatever I was like texting him like do you want to produce my movie executive producer he's like

hell yeah I was like yay so let me tell you my two favorite things about Todd Phillips other than Starsky and Hutch which he should put

the fuck back on his student film is Gigi Allen Hated yeah yeah okay then he goes and he goes like this hilariously successful

Ivan Reitman that he's producing for a very long time and he had no reason to get off of that yeah I love that he was like fuck it

I'm unsatisfied spiritually kind of like Russell Brand walking away nobody kicked him out yeah it wasn't enough for him yeah i was at the dinner that russell brand got his first role at like i threw that dinner for him yeah so to see him walk i love that shit but todd was like you know i'm sure joaquin hung up on him 70 times right fuck you franchise yeah no we can do whatever

we want but then my third favorite thing other than than taking the shot on himself and Joaquin, is that he dated Paris Hilton way out loud when it wasn't cool to date Paris Hilton. Like, he is a fucking solid dude. Yeah. I love that guy. He's like another Milos. Or JD. Yeah.

Good. Todd's great. And actually, I met them meet. And JD's like, oh my God, I love him. I think they love each other. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

I haven't talked to Todd since the movie, really. We were going to do an interview, but it didn't happen. Yeah, he's the best. It's Todd Phillips' crush. Yeah. It's these cool girls here called Dorothy Street. And it's either, I think it's going to be Endeavor, I think. I think.

Endeavor? Endeavor, maybe. Or there's this movie. In terms of? Well, there's a new player in town Ralph Lauren's son is making movies now

oh yeah so JD's on it yeah no I said to him like did you start Crush Films to have a failure yeah

because Sia 27 million dollars for like you won a Tony and a Plague Buddy like he's not a really cool guy in there and he's like no I'm like exactly

yeah we're gonna make Crush Films a big thing alright beautiful good talking to you alright man you too Like, he's not a really cool guy in there. And he's like, no. I'm like, exactly. We're going to make crushed films a big thing. All right. Beautiful. Good talking to you. All right, man. You too.

There you go. Courtney Love. How was that for you? Happy New Year. Bag it up. Where you at? Who am I, Killer Bees? Happy New Year.

Bag it up. Bag it up. You got to bag it up. That was exciting, Courtney wrote. So hang out for a minute, will you? You can get anything you need with Uber Eats. Well, almost almost anything. So no, you can't get an ice rink on Uber Eats. But iced tea and ice cream? Yes, we can deliver that. Uber Eats. Get almost almost anything. So no, you can't get an ice rink on Uber Eats. But iced tea and ice cream? Yes, we can deliver that.

Uber Eats. Get almost, almost anything. Order now. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. Thank you. how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means.

I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. As a recommendation from the archives today, you can go listen to a show we did five years ago, episode 877, Mark's Family. This was an episode we did over the holiday week to line up with people spending time with their families. It's a collection of my phone calls with my mom, dad, and brother from over the years, and Brendan says it's one of his very favorite WTF episodes. Let me try to get my dad on the phone and get that out of the way.

Let's just give him a call. Please enjoy the music while your party is reached. Oh, come on. You can hear that? Hello? Hey, Dad, it's Mark. Uh, Dad? I got the wrong number? Probably not at all.

I'm not as old as you. You don't have any kids? Yeah, I kind of thought that was a weird musical choice for my dad. I apologize. Yeah. Bye. This is Dr. Marin. Please leave a message.

Thank you. Hey, Dad, Mark. Shit. Happy birthday yesterday. Fuck. I don't... I'm sorry I missed it. I just... I didn't remember. I guess it really didn't have I'm sorry I missed it. I just, I didn't remember.

I guess you really didn't have that much impact on my life. You know, it's kind of your fault. I should have, you know. It's your fault that I didn't remember. That's what I'm saying. All right, but I love you. And maybe next year. Am I right?

Oh, fuck. I better call you. You're going to misunderstand this message. Hello. Hey, Dad. How you doing, man? Hey, sorry. Happy birthday.

I'm sorry I forgot. I just didn't seem to give a shit. You can listen to that episode right now for free on all podcast apps. That's episode 877, Mark's Family. If you want access to all WTF episodes ad-free, sign up for WTF Plus by clicking the link in the episode description or go to wtfpod.com and click on WTF Plus. On Thursday, I talk with Eric McFadden. Eric McFadden is a kid I knew way back in the day when I was growing up in Albuquerque, New Mexico. I thought he was much younger than me, but he's only

a couple of years younger than me. When I was in high school, I was growing up in Albuquerque, New Mexico. I thought he was much younger than me, but he's only a couple years younger than me. When I was in high school, I used to work at a bagel place called the Posh Bagel. Next door to that was a guitar place called the Guitar Shop. Both this was in the 70s, in the late 70s. And Eric was this kid that used to run around playing his guitar. He'd walk around with his guitar on the street and wear a headband. He looked like a little Hendrix. And he was just this kid I knew.

And I'd see him all, you know, at the Frontier Restaurant in Albuquerque. And he was just a guy I knew and I have in my memory. And I've had, you know, experiences with over the years in Albuquerque, New Mexico. And he's a guy. He's a guitar player. He's had many solo albums. He's toured with the Animals, with George Clinton. And, you know, I kind of reconnected with him.

And we just had a conversation about growing up in Albuquerque, about where he's at with his musicianship, what it was like to tour with George Clinton. It was great. And his solo work. He's now touring with Kate Vargas, I believe her name is. And, you know, he's got a new record out. It's just, you know, you just don't know.

It was great. You know, we were kids together. I mean, real kids. So that's happening. Here's a little guitar I just pulled out. It's some more mud with the 335 into the cranked up tubers. Thank you. boomer lives monkey and lafonda cat angels everywhere