WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1402 - Octavia Spencer

Episode Date: January 19, 2023

Octavia Spencer’s career started behind the scenes, as she worked in casting departments on film sets. Director Joel Schumacher said she should read for the role of Sandra Bullock’s nurse in A Time To Kill and set her on a path that would eventually culminate fifteen years later with an Academy Award. Octavia and Marc talk about how she’s had to resist typecasting, how she conquered stage fright, and how her childhood love of police procedurals is now her life, as she kicks off the third season of the crime drama Truth Be Told. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Be honest. When was the last time you thought about your current business insurance policy? If your existing business insurance policy is renewing on autopilot each year without checking out Zensurance, you're probably spending more than you need. That's why you need to switch to low-cost coverage from Zensurance before your policy renews this year. Zensurance does all the heavy lifting to find a policy, covering only what you need, and policies start at only $19 per month. So if your policy is renewing soon, go to Zensurance and fill out a quote. Zensurance, mind your business.

Death is in our air. This year's most anticipated series, FX's Shogun, only on Disney+. We live and we die. We control nothing beyond that. An epic saga based on the global bestselling novel by James Clavel. To show your true heart is to risk your life. When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive. FX's Shogun, a new original series, streaming February 27th exclusively on Disney+. 18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply.

Lock the gates! all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fuck nicks what's happening i'm mark maron this is my podcast welcome to it Welcome to it. Today, I'm going to talk to Octavia Spencer. Yeah. The Oscar-winning actress for The Help. Three Oscar nominations total. You know her from Hidden Figures, The Shape of Water, Snowpiercer, all kinds of stuff.

I mean, she's done a lot of stuff. She's done a lot of stuff where she maybe even just has a word or two. She's a lifer, man. She's been at it. She's got this new crime series on Truth Be Told. It's back on Apple TV Plus for a third season. And I'm going to talk to her. She came over. What a fun person to talk to. Enjoyed it. That'll happen for you soon. I'm going to bake a cake after I get off these mics because it's Kit's birthday. I'm going to bake her a cake. What is that saying? Why don't you bake me a cake?

Whatever. I'll bake a cake. Any excuse to make a cake, a pie, a sweet bread. I'll take it. I just want it out of the house shortly after I make it. I made you the cake. You take it. You eat it. But she likes that classic coffee cake.

You know the kind of coffee cake that if you live in New York, you get a slice of it at a bodega. It was all wrapped tightly. It was just like a dense coffee cake with sort of a layer of cinnamon in between the piece. And just cinnamon crumble sugar on top. That kind of coffee cake where you eat it and you would test pre-diabetic for a week after. One of those. Going to make one of those. And I'm looking forward to it I fucking love to cook man

And you know what I love my house And I kind of like my life And I like being alone There's a big It's not a revelation I always kind of knew that But it's a weird

Realization to To feel self Sufficiency Or at least enough comfort with yourself to where being alone doesn't imply loneliness to you. Who fucking cares what other people think? Like the other night, I had a steak in the fridge that I'd already salted up. A big one that I was going to throw on the grill, throw on the Traeger, smoke it, then sear it. Usually I eat those with Kit, but she was working, and I'd already salted it because I was going to do it the night before, but I had to make a friend of mine dinner because she's leaving town, and I owed her a birthday dinner. My friend Nicole. So I had this steak. And it was big.

It's too big a steak. It was a tomahawk. Big one. And I'm like, you know what? Fuck it. I'm going to cook this. Going to eat as much as I can. Cook myself some other shit.

And then I started thinking like, well, come on. You got to have a friend that you can just text and be like, I made some meat. Come eat some meat. Come over and eat some meat. Got to have a friend that would do that. And I was like, dude, just eat the meat by yourself. And I sat there and I ate slowly by myself, and I thought, this is the best. I don't mind this at all.

Nothing wrong with it. Alone but not lonely. I don't know, man. I just was sitting in a place of real peace. Some sort of grounded, almost, I don't want to throw this word around, but there was a happiness to it. I'm like, this is okay. And then shortly after that, I wondered if I should stop eating meat. Because there's only so many tomahawk steaks you can eat with that large bone and not, you know,

realize that you're eating an animal, which is half of it. The other half is, I don't know if my heart can take it. I mean, you know, what is the statin really doing? How much do I need to push it? And I thought a plant based business. And then that went away, but I didn't eat dessert. Did I eat dessert? I don't think I did. Did I? Brian Jones sent me a bunch of homemade candies, chocolates, basically peanut butter cups. Too many of them. They're in the freezer. Got to get rid of them because I think I'm pre-diabetic.

Isn't everybody pre-diabetic? Got to get off the sugar. Why can't I just lock in? See, I'm ruining it. I'm ruining the peace that I had right now. I'm ruining it. So I should tell you this. It's a very good time to sign up for the full Marin. If you want to follow along,

I don't know how you feel about wrestling. I don't know how I felt about it, but I did engage with it and I had a pretty good time because right now we're doing the, uh, wrestling with Mark mini series. Uh, and that's going to be rolling out over the next few weeks

on the Full Marin, on the bonus content. We chronicled my entry into the world of professional wrestling with a trip to the AEW matches at the LA Forum. We've got interviews and backstage details

and my thoughts on taking it all in for the first time. It was pretty exciting. You can go to the link in the episode description and sign up for the full Marin or go to WTFpod.com and click on WTF Plus. Full immersion available to you full Marin people. And there's something about professional wrestling.

It's sort of like I found myself listening to a Megadeth album the other day. There's some connection between the theatrics of heavy messling. Heavy messling? I like that. Heavy messling. I don't know. What does messling mean?

There's a connection between heavy metal and professional wrestling. The theatrics of hard rock, metal, and wrestling. the theatrics of hard rock, metal, and wrestling. Like, I now have a deepening appreciation for metal because of wrestling. Does that make sense? It was always there. I've got the records. But now, like, there's something happening.

Maybe I'm, maybe, all that needs to happen now is I need to start becoming start moving backward in years. Like literally, it'd be nice if some sort of Benjamin Button effect, like next year, I was a year younger than I am now. I can't count on that. Can't count on that happening. So I got a call from my gym today. I joined the gym. It's a nice gym down the street.

And I joined it right in time for the massive rains here. So I was going. I like went every day. Cardio and working out. But generally, I work out at home with a lady that comes over and puts me through it. And I hike up the mountain. So the rains have stopped and it's clear and beautiful out. And up on the mountain, there's these huge chasms that have been carved out by the rain, mini canyons. Interesting, more challenging a hike.

But nonetheless, I haven't been to the gym in, I'm thinking three days, maybe four since I've gone to the gym where I was going like almost every day. And I get a call from a number I didn't recognize. And sometimes I pick it up if it's from here in town, because it might be, you know, a doctor or whatever appointment to my management, who knows. And it's a guy from the gym. And he's like, hey man, everything okay Okay. Uh, you had a good run going. You had a good streak going and we haven't seen you in a few days. Just want to make sure there's nothing we can do to make sure that, uh, your experience is good here. I don't know if you were out of town. I'm like, wow, man. Wow. I didn't know. This is quite a gym

that, you know, you join up and it comes with a conscience. Is that your job? Is that on your business card? Conscience at such and such a gym. But that's what it was. I got a call from the guy in the conscience office at the gym. gym and he's yeah he's in the uh he's at the self-loathing desk to check in with uh why why aren't you coming you're all right buddy huh what's the matter you fucker were you giving up on yourself had enough didn't work out didn't lose weight quick enough you don't

feel healthy enough now you're just going to give up and surrender to the worst of you? Huh? Where were you? Where the fuck were you? I'm like, wow. Hey, man, I just hiked outside and worked out in my yard. Had nothing to do with you guys. There's no attrition here.

I felt the need to explain myself to this guy. I said, there's no, no fault of the gyms, no fault of yours. I just was exercising outdoors because it's nice out. Air is crisp. He's like, okay, well, we just want to make sure. It's like, yeah, okay. Well, I guess this is a good thing for you to do because maybe one day I will give up. well, I guess this is a good thing for you to do because maybe one day I will give up. And if that's the case, if I've given up, I'm not coming to the gym

because I've given up on myself, you're going to have to do more than just call, pal. So I hope that you have some sort of task force involved. I hope that the follow-up to a call like this, if I were to say, you know, dude, it is the gym, but not really, it's me. You know, dude, it's me. I can't take it anymore. I don't really want to live. And, you know, I see no point in

exercising. What do you do then? Do you send a car over? Do you send a professional, emotional, Do you send a professional, emotional, psychological trainer of some kind over? Do you come pick me up and put me on a machine, man? The guy at the conscience desk over at the gym called me. I don't know what he thinks he's getting into, but for now it was okay. I handled it well. All right. Look, I got to go bake a cake after this. I'm looking forward to it.

I wonder if the guy from the gym will call me up and go like, what are you doing, pal? You know, we got a feeling that you're not eating properly. Back off, dude. I can have my cake and eat it. Just a piece and then I'm going to send it home to my girlfriend. So look, Octavia Spencer, lovely person. The new season of Truth Be Told premieres this Friday, January 20th on Apple TV+. You can stream seasons one and two right now. And this is me talking to the great Octavia Spencer. Are you self-employed? Don't think you need business insurance? Think again. Business insurance from Zensurance is a no-brainer for every business owner because it provides peace of mind.

A lot can go wrong. A fire, cyber attack, stolen equipment, or an unhappy customer suing you. That's why you need insurance. Don't let the, I'm too small for this mindset, hold you back from protecting yourself. Zensurance provides customized business insurance policies starting at just $19 per month. Visit Zensurance today to get a free quote. Zensurance. mind your business. Death is in our air. This year's most anticipated series, FX's Shogun, only on Disney+. We live and

we die. We control nothing beyond that. An epic saga based on the global best-selling novel by James Clavel. To show your true heart is to risk your life. When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive. FX's Shogun. A new original series streaming February 27th exclusively on Disney+. 18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. How long have you lived out here? It's so funny.

I just started laughing. This year I will have lived in California longer than I lived in Alabama where I grew up. And do you love it? I do. I really, really, really do. What part of town? I live in the Valley. Okay. I'm in the Valley. Yeah. But it's nice out there. It's great out there. You know what I love about the Valley is that it feels like anywhere USA. Yes. You know, but you know, you go to different areas of the Valley, like Pasadena. You will only find that feel in Pasadena. That's not the valley. I call it more valley-esque.

Okay. But, you know. Like, I look at the valley as Burbank and beyond. Okay. Like, because we're in Glendale, and I'm like, this is Glendale. Yeah. This isn't the valley. Yeah.

Yeah, that's true. That's very, very true. You know, because people are like, is that the Valley of, no, it's its own town. It is. But see, everything is its own town here. I know. That's the other thing that I like. Yeah, yeah.

Well, I just, except for when you're in LA proper, then that's a city. Like, it's weird living in Glendale, which is, I used to live in Highland Park. I just know that, you know, the fire department's right around the corner. Right around the corner. Like, the cops will come. Mm-hmm. You know come you know it's true it's very very true and i'm right near like the americana like if i have to go to bloomingdales it's five minutes away but god the america but i don't feel it i don't like sitting on my porch i don't feel any of that and And that's what I love about it. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. Because when you get into the hills and Hollywood and you could get, you know, it's a little uneven.

Well, yeah. And also, like, I start to realize, I don't know, maybe I'm weird. And we talked about it a little bit coming in here. I like watching people walk by. I like, you know, seeing the cars go. I like having the yard, but seeing, like, activity. It feels very neighborhood. It is. Like a community.

Exactly. Yeah, I love that. And in the hills, it's like just to drive up a fucking hill exactly i mean it's crazy is it worth it i would freak out what if you got to get off the hill oh let me tell you when i i when i was uh buying a house i had chosen one uh in the hills And my friend knows me very well. He's like, you need to A, try to find that house at night. And I was like, what? Of course it's my house. I'm going to find it at night.

No, but he was making me understand that I needed to see the ease, you know, of driving up and down a hill every day. And then, lo and behold, he was right, you know, trying to find it. I'm like, this is too much of a problem. Yeah. You know, so I opted for the flat. So what part of Alabama did you come from? Montgomery, Alabama. Smack dab in central Alabama.

I was in – I shot a movie in Birmingham not too long ago. I haven't spent a lot of time there. What? But I liked it. It's a beautiful place and beautiful people. I love being from there.

Yeah, but it's heavy, man. I think everywhere is heavy. Everywhere has its history. You know what I mean? I think everywhere has problems sure you know but yeah but but not quite as historical and dug in well the thing is though you would think that

that that were true but you know looking at look at what's happening with um bruce beach yeah you know yeah you know what i'm saying it's everywhere they just sold it back to the city they just selling it back to the city but you get what i'm saying? It's everywhere. They just sold it back to the city. They're selling it back to the city. But you get what I'm saying? Everything has a history. Right, right, right, right. Yeah. And there are places that we perceive because of what was actually recorded in history.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I tell you, every place has history. I guess I'm just kind of like, I just watched that movie, The Descendants, the documentary. The documentary. Right? And that's outside of Montgomery, right? Outside of Montgomery, yeah. That movie was pretty intense.

It's intense. Listen, you can't deny that Southern history is intense. It is. I mean, it is. Of course, yeah. But that's why it's on the brain. Well, what's beautiful for me is that stuff preceded me. You know, I was a child of the 70s.

So I was born in, I'd like to say 72, 73, but just say 70s, early. early. And then, you know, as you grow and older and the things that you can remember, that wasn't a part of my history. I learned about it. It's not everything, anything that I experienced. Right. But was it, did it hang over the family in any way? No. I mean, we, my mother definitely, you know, taught us about the world and the realities, the harsh realities of the world and history. But growing up in Alabama, if I'm going to be honest, I felt more racism when I first moved here than I ever, ever had in Alabama. Well, isn't that kind of, like, that's interesting because there is something that, because the truth of the matter is that despite the history, you know, people have been living together in the South since all of it. Exactly. of it. Exactly. So whether, you know, obviously racism is there and there's the heart of it to a certain degree, but over time, in terms of people living together, it's longer than anywhere

else in the country. Exactly. Exactly. That's exactly it. So maybe there's probably an awkward understanding in some places, but in other places, it's just the way it is. It's just the way it is. And it was very interesting because of perception, you know. It was like, oh, California is going to be this free and liberal thinking place. Right. What'd you experience? It is so funny. It's right out of Pretty Woman. One of the first things that you do when you move to, or at least that I did, you want to go to those historical places. You want to go to Rodeo Drive. You want to go to Hollywood Boulevard.

Yeah, right. You know, the Wax Museum, all of those landmark places. And I just remember this is, well, the funny thing is, whenever you, R rodeo, I don't even know what I thought rodeo. Yeah. When I saw the streets and I'm like, oh, it's rodeo. You know, is this rodeo or? Why are they saying it wrong? Why are they saying it's just rodeo?

You know? Yeah. But when you, when you walk down rodeo, i.e. rodeo. Yeah. walk down rodeo i.e rodeo yeah um i i remember uh going into a shop and being followed like at first i i didn't even i was just like so excited like just walking around and then i would i realized that i was um being being followed yeah i, oh, is this, you know? Yeah, it is. It was just kind of strange in that way. But I guess it really is.

There is a culture of profound racism in Los Angeles. Yeah, and the funny thing is, you know, after getting over that initial, like thing is, you know, after getting over that initial like, huh, you know, I've not really necessarily experienced. Right. Sure. But it was glaringly obvious. Right. And also because everything's so sterile on Rodeo and it's not like there's, it's not a million people around.

Right. Right. You're walking down and there's like four people outside of cars. I was an anomaly. Because I'm walking around going, look at this knife. How much is this knife? It's a rhinestone jewel encrusted.

How big a family did you come from? There are seven of us. And everyone's still around? Yeah, my siblings are... yeah, I'm blessed. I recently, one of my sisters lost her only child, her only son. It was last year. Terrible. So the holidays, this past holidays, we're a little melancholy, you know.

Sad. Yeah. Sorry. But seven of you, where do you fall in the line i am the next to the youngest so i i am used to things being done for me and other people's clothes yeah other people's you know what yeah it's strangely i really we didn't do hand-me-downs oh really no that's good my mom was very conscientious about that, I think, making sure that we all had our own identity. Oh, that's good.

I did not. That's not anything which, you know, when your sisters borrowed stuff from you, made it a problem. It's like, wait a minute. Is that my shirt? It was pretty funny because that was, yeah. Well, that's an interesting observation that she wanted you all to have your own identities. Our own identities. And the interesting thing is she couldn't afford that.

Yeah. What'd she do? She had several jobs to make sure that whatever she needed to do to make sure she provided for us. A lot of kids. A lot of kids. And your dad? Was not in my life. At all?

Not. She's a single mom. Okay. You know, and having a single mom, I have to tell you, there's so much that I learned about the resilience of women. Wow. Seven kids and a single mom. Seven. That's crazy.

Yeah, which is why her presence is still, you know, I lost her when I was 17. And my relationship with my siblings is so tight because of. What's the difference in years between you and the oldest? Between me and the oldest, like 12. Oh, well, so you definitely had grownups around. Yeah, like 12. More, definitely, so you definitely had grownups. I had, yeah, like 12. More, definitely older than me. Yeah.

I did not, in the hierarchy of things, my vote didn't matter. Nobody asked me what I thought because I was too young to have an opinion. But is that, but in the same way that I talked to, you know, I'm an older sibling, but, you know, I just have a younger brother. But, like, when you're the youngest sibling, at least you have all these different, you've got all these, you know, siblings doing, they're out in the world.

Yeah. Doing things and bringing things back. Yeah. I would imagine. Yeah. I mean, were there certain siblings that, you know, showed you things and, like, music or what's going on in the world and all that stuff? Well, it's interesting because it's not anything that I think that they were aware of. But, you know, you're participating in a family.

And so I was exposed to music and poetry and books and, you know, boys and, you know, all, because I had older siblings. And I think it's so interesting how mature kids become because of the society of the family. You know, there's a hierarchy. Yeah. And also, I mean, if everybody was sort of doing their part, I imagine everybody kind of, yeah, I mean, it must be difficult if your mom's at work and there's 70 or how are you? us. And it's one of those things that you appreciate. I certainly appreciate now because I thought, man, I don't know that I would have been that mature to help out in that way. I was

one of the younger ones. So it's like, you know, which, you know, I'm going to be tucked over it in a corner reading a book. I mean, you know, because you did not want your presence to be felt in a way that was negative. Right. You know. So you'd rather just kind of disappear into the wall. Just disappear. And when you're in a large family, it's like, you're going to do what you need to do to vie for attention. And my thing was, okay, be great. Don't be a problem. And you have one younger sibling? I have one younger sibling. How'd they do?

Everybody actually, you know, she was the youngest. So, or is the youngest. And so the baby always, you know, it's the baby and the oldest. They get the, all of us are middle kids. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Are any of them out here? One of my sisters is actually visiting me right now. That's kind of funny, but living out here now. Where are they? All back? All back in the South. Really? Yeah. Close by to where you grew

up? Close by to where I grew up. I mean, they ventured out and then people, you know, they come home because what's interesting for me now at this age is, you know, how you stake your claim on the world. I love this town, but I got to get out. I got to see. And then you realize the things that calm you. And maybe things were put into perspective for me because of the pandemic. The things that made me calm, the things that brought me joy and the isolation and the separation from my family being so far away, that when I go back home to the South, how I love the green grass and the space and how I love being

around the water and trees and missing my family. So, yeah. Yeah. The pandemic kind of brought that into focus. It brought it into focus. Yeah. And actually, you know, we were all so terrified of-

Dying. Yeah. Hello. I mean, you see me. I'm still like COVID conscious. I know. I tested this morning because I wanted to, you know, it would be, I tested. I test.

I'm crazy, you know. You're still crazy? This is calm because I have a whole face, plastic face mask thing that I do. Yeah, yeah. But I set, it's not, it would make, I actually look crazier than I am. I just like to set this there so that it's not actually touching my... So when I have the giant face shield on, it just sits and I'm... Yeah. And you're doing that when you go out all the time? I do it when I go out to...

Yeah, I do. I'm trying to like... Maybe I'm not so, but I am. I'm still very... It felt good to... I hadn't tested in a little while. I guess I tested a few weeks ago for an event, but it's almost nostalgic now. But there's still that suspense. I don't know. I always cover up the thing. It's like a pregnancy. The weird thing is I don't want to see any double lines.

You know, because it really is like taking a pregnancy test. Yeah, yeah. But I like the suspense of it. I don't, like, I'll just cover it for 15 minutes and go like, ta-da! Oh, one line. Thank God. Yeah, and it's around. I guess we just got to live with it.

You have to live with it. And that's what, because I'm a huge, like, if you ever asked me the things that would be most terrifying. Yeah. This is the, it's hard to wrap my brain around it. Around COVID? Yeah. Just germs, you know, the things that can harm you, pathogens that you can't see. Yeah.

Which is all of them. Yeah. And the problem is, you know, you never think about it because, you know, but then there's like, it's a killer germ. Yeah. So just calming my brain down and getting back out and functioning is a thing. So before COVID, you were a germ? I was, but it didn't paralyze me as much as the idea of how COVID.

And the thing about COVID is you don't know what's in your DNA that it's going to react negatively to. That's right, yeah. So that's why I'm going, it's me. I always, you know, I'm the person that, you know, whenever you read the fine print on medication, I'm the outlier. It's like, it's got to be me. Of course.

That's the way your brain works. That's how my brain works. I'm going to be the one that's going to get all these symptoms. All these symptoms. I can't take this medicine. Yeah, I can't take the medicine. Yeah. Exactly.

I'm a little hypochondriac. But it's interesting to me, though, how, like, because I didn't, the fear was paralyzing for a while. Yes. And, you know, and people who lived in New York were, people were just dying. Yeah. Everywhere. Everywhere. And, and like, I didn't, we didn't really see that out here because we don't live in

that type of city. Exactly. But like, I have friends there and they're like, you know, they don't, they don't even know where to put the bodies. And I'm like, holy shit. I know. And that's where, that's, those are the images that are still in my brain and mind. I mean, I'm better and now I'm being more social and out there.

But it's like I'm creeping back out, but I'm still kind of like – I mean, I used to be in full-on gloves. Yeah, me too. Just to go to the Ralphs. I know. You know, I had the gloves, I had the mask, and I had that visor. The visor. And I'd freak out if people were –

Too close. Yeah. Too close. When you're in the lines, like, too close. But yeah, but then I got, I had, I got like four, I guess I've had five shots. Yeah. But, you know, I got COVID after three.

Three shots, right? And I talk about it on stage, I said, when you get COVID after three or four shots, that's as close as you'll ever be to being an anti-vaxxer. If you're not an anti-vaxxer, after four shots, you get COVID, you or four shots, that's as close as you'll ever be to being an anti-vaxxer. If you're not an anti-vaxxer, after four shots, you get COVID, you're like, fuck, are they right? They can't be right. I would have died.

I would have died. But you didn't get it? I'm not going to say it because knock wood, I'm superstitious. You're superstitious. Also hypochondriac and superstitious. I'm superstitious too. You're superstitious. Also hypochondriac and superstitious. I'm all of those things. This is why I am, you know, there's only one. You have an active inner life.

Very active inner life that I just kind of blurred out there for the rest of the world. It's pretty funny. I'm kind of superstitious too. Like in weird ways. I tweeted yesterday. I said, is putting a hat on the bed bad luck if it's a beanie? Because there's certain things. Like, I wouldn't say that I'm really superstitious.

But occasionally I'll be wearing a beanie on my hike and I'll just throw it on the bed with the sweatshirt and stuff. And I'm like, oh, no. Does it have to be a cowboy hat of some kind? I think it might have to be a cowboy hat. But then again, I don't know. But like head coverings. It said hat. Yeah, that's right.

You know, when you think of a baby, it's a covering. Okay, so I can, yeah, there's a loophole. I feel like, you know, we could parse that. Yeah. But did you, do you have a family member that got sick? I had a couple, yeah. And they were, you know have a family member that got sick? I had a couple, yeah. And they were, you know, great.

They turned out. Oh, it worked out? It worked out. But, you know, of course me, I'm like, nobody. Yeah, I'm going to be the one. I'm going to be the one that it's going to be terrible for. But you know what? No, I'm going to be the one that's going to be, I'm going to be just as fine as everybody else. Everybody's good.

Yeah. So when does the, like, is anyone else in your family in show business? No, my nephew that passed away. So he's good. Yeah. So when does he, like, is anyone else in your family in show business? No. My nephew that passed away had a desire. But nobody else, no. It's kind of funny. Regular jobs? Regular jobs, regular people, which I love.

Don't you envy that? You know what? Yes and no. I love what I do so much. It's just to be able to do the thing that you love to do is more than a privilege. And they feel the same way about what they do. Yeah. Like what do they do?

Some of the jobs. I have a sister that's a nurse. I have a couple of sisters that are educators. Oh, yeah. I have a sister that got her doctorate from the University of Alabama, and I went to Auburn. So it's kind of funny, but it's an education. I went to Auburn. I'm an Auburn Tiger, which is if you're from the South, if you're from Alabama, you know the rivalry between Auburn and Alabama.

Oh, yeah. And Georgia. So you've had fights with your sister? Well, I felt like we were pretty much an Auburn family when I was growing up. And now it's like, what is all this crimson tide? What is going on? But what does she do? Education as well.

Well, those are noble pursuits. They're very noble pursuits. Yeah, yeah. Very noble. But sometimes, like, to be in show business, I sometimes go through these moments where it's sort of like, is this ridiculous? You know what? I had that whole – I i mean i'm telling you i the pandemic really made me think about things and and um prioritize things and we what the entertainment business isn't a

frivolous business because what did we turn to when we were in lockdown and couldn't go anybody you you turn to your books uh your music, and your films and television. And people needed that. They needed respite from the reality of the crazy, what was happening in the world. So I never took it for granted. We're like nurses and educators. And educators, in a way, we are providing a necessary.

Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. But the thing you were saying about home, though, it's interesting when about, because like there's something about just because you, just the environment when you're talking about the grass and the space and the water, it's just like there's part of our brains that was so young there. Yeah. And that it represents, it the water. It's just like there's part of our brains that was so young there. Yeah.

And that it was innocent. It was innocent. And it represented this. There's a piece to it. So when you go back, it reengages to it as much as it can. Yeah. You're jaded and horrible now. But the experience of feeling grounded.

Grounded. I do that, yeah. I grew up in New Mexico. I have the same of feeling grounded. Grounded, yeah. I do that, yeah. Like, well, I grew up in New Mexico. I have the same feeling about it. But, like, sometimes I'm thinking, like, maybe I should move back there. But, like, lately I've been going back there, and I'm like, what the fuck am I going to do here? Yeah.

But, you know, you have a bunch of family, though. But I don't know if you ever think about going back there. But I actually, you know, I got a home there now. Oh, you do? So I, you know um i i got a home there now oh you do so i you know i i i do i well the other thing is time and and spending quality time with family yes uh so uh you know i'll be back and forth but you'll spend months at a time out there sometimes i weeks okay weeks at a time months at a time will be kind of tough because you know this business is so transient. Yeah, yeah.

So when do you start getting interested in acting and that kind of stuff? I was interested, you know, I mean it's just such a part of my DNA like very early on. Yeah. I realized, you know, watching television and film exactly what it is that people do. How old were you, you think? Like seven. And also you're the, like one of the youngest kids, so you need attention, I would think. I was a, I've always been a nerdy kid, you know. I would be up at night watching old

cop shows when my family was in, you know, asleep. I'd be up watching the cop shows cop shows when my family was asleep. I'd be up watching the cop shows and procedurals. Oh, really? Yeah. You're kind of in one now. I know. I am. Well, that's what I'm attracted to.

So that was your thing? Yeah. And what's funny is that's what I went back to. During COVID? During COVID. I went, I, and what's funny is that's what I went back to, you know. During COVID? During COVID. I went back to all. Which ones? I mean, Barnaby Jones and.

Oh, so you're talking about old timey stuff. I'm talking old, old stuff from the childhood. Like Columbo? Columbo. Well, I, I, listen, I've seen every episode of Columbo, every single one. You love it. I do. I do. I do. So those are the ones we grew up with, right? Barnaby Jones.

Barnaby Jones. Buddy. Buddy. Buddy Ebsen. Buddy Ebsen. But see, he was actually, all of those shows predated me. Sure. Me too.

So when you think about it, when you're up at night and they were in syndication, watching them and Canon. Canon. Mannix, Mannix. Mannix and- And Beretta. Beretta. See, all of that. Kojak. Well, yeah, Kojak.

I mean, I watched all of those shows. On what, like TV Land or what? It's on MeTV. Now. Now it is. But back then it was like NBC, whatever. My girlfriend's a Columbo freak. Oh, well, here's a bit of trivia.

Yeah. Two of our industry's most famous Stevens did the first Columbo, or did the pilot episode of Columbo. One was a director and one was a writer. Spielberg? Yes, directed Columbo, the first. And Stephen Bochco wrote it. Oh, yeah.

Wrote the pilot episode. Isn't that crazy? It is crazy. Well, I find that, especially if I'm talking to people, people work in show business. Yeah. And you've got to come up in show business. Yeah, you do. You don't start.

You've got to figure it out. You have to figure it out. You do. Yeah. You have to figure it out. You have to figure it out. You do. Yeah. You have to figure it out. So that's where you got your comfort, nerding out when you were a little kid, watching Barnaby Jones. Watching Barnaby Jones. Well, I think that we really spent a lot of time consuming, more time than we actually would if there hadn't been a pandemic.

Yes. You know, like we had to be still and you had to fill that time with something. I watched all of Breaking Bad again. I did too. I watched all of Breaking Bad. Sopranos? No, it was Game of Thrones for me.

I never did the Game of Thrones. Ooh. Yeah. Ooh, honey. I love that show. I've watched it like from beginning to end like three times.

I got to get into it. I'm just not a dragon guy. Well, I never thought that I would be into that fantasy, but it felt the wars and it was something, what I loved about it is everybody's the one true king, you know? And so it just, you know, the chess pieces constantly moving. You liked it. Good story. Very good story. They did it really well. So when do you actually start to do performance? I started performing, I mean, college and studying. I majored in English in my minor theater arts. And so I had like a couple of things that i had to do so oh so you

like were not the you weren't studying theater but you could do perform yeah yeah but you know when i say i performed it was like one or two lines in a play yeah because i i was i was more appreciative of the um art history and theater history and yeah I wanted to do it, you know, but I never, it never dawned on me like how I would, my way in. Right, how was that a job? Yeah. And the funny thing is I worked as an intern when I was 17 on a movie with Whoopi Goldberg and Sissy Spacek

called The Long Walk Home. Where, in Alabama? In Alabama, they filmed. And see, I was so green in my understanding of how the film industry worked. The thought never occurred to me that they filmed things on location. Sure. And that they could come to your hometown to film a film. Yeah.

hometown to film a film. But I also was, I think I was set on the dream that my mother had for me, which was, you know, being an attorney, you know, so I kind of really wasn't thinking in terms of performance. When you had that job. Yeah. I mean, I loved it. I loved every... Why'd you get that job? Because I'd always wanted to work on films and television. But did you meet Whoopi and everything?

I did. I was... Listen, I thought I was in high cotton. I was an intern and they paid me a hundred dollars a week uh as an intern and i got to uh work in the extras casting uh department and i had so much fun entertaining the extras i mean like it was so much fun but i you know got to meet sissy she's great and then to work with her again on the help oh that, that's right. It was so crazy. But she didn't remember.

She actually did. Really? She did. She did. And I reminded her, but we talked about her daughter because Skylar was three when she did The Long Walk Home. It was pretty amazing, was pretty, pretty amazing actually to have a relationship with Whoopi

and just, I mean, I feel like the stardust was sprinkled on my whole journey as an actor. I mean,

the stardust. I think I had a little angel on my shoulder sprinkling that stardust. Yeah, yeah. You know, just the fairy dust around it. Well, it's interesting to come full circle like that and actually be able to share that story again

with Sissy. With Sissy and with Whoopi. When the help came out, well, the funny thing is, I wanted to work on films and just was ready to move to Hollywood to work on films, you know, right after the movie was wrapped. At 17.

Yeah. And Whoopi's like, I think you need to, because my mom was like really heavily into education. Yeah. And Whoopi, you know, said, you know, no, you don't. Hollywood will always be there. Get your education. Yeah, yeah. And so I did.

And I remember when I was graduating, she was in Africa filming, I don't know, whichever one of her movies that she was filming in Africa, and her brother- Whoopi? Whoopi's brother, because he worked on The Long Walk Home as well. He worked in production with us. He made sure to let me know that Whoopi was thinking of me and she was all excited that I was graduating. I mean, that kind of nurturing. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And then to see her, I remember the first time I did The View and I was like, Whoopi, I don't know if you remember me. She's like, of course. It was the- Oh my God. Yeah. That's beautiful. So, okay.

But do you do acting? Do you do acting lessons? Do you do. Yeah. I then, when I moved out here, just got into a lot of classes. But before, nothing in high school? oh yeah i mean you you have to do i was in you know the drama yeah the club and you know we had plays and we had all of all of that um but the thing is i i i my mother never ever um rained on my dreams you know film industry was my dream yeah uh she was just very

practical yeah you know yes you know you can sure that's that's a nice idea wary yeah very wary right right but but would never never say no you shouldn't do that right you know but you want to be able to um provide for yourself security. They're worried about security. Very worried about security. And after she passed away, I realized after graduating from college that I could pursue the dream that I had for myself, which is as much as I – Without her making you feel a little guilty? Well, the thing is, and I'm still very fascinated, and I still have an affinity for the rule of law and the letter of the law. Sure. I mean, I, like, what's happening now in our democracy is, you know, civics, all of that stuff was very much a part of my DNA.

Yeah. Is a part of my DNA. Yeah. So I am glued, you know, to television, and it's holding my interest because it's like, this is what I. That was the other thing about the pandemic is that we were in the middle of hell. We were. And it was like just the layers of fucking fear. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, it was like, it was relentless. Relentless. Relentless. How are you feeling now? I am very hopeful because the youth will always save us. I hope so. They always have, though.

When you think about the civil rights movement, youth. Youth involvement. The audacity of the youth. But they didn't have phones. No. I know. But see, the thing is, though, they showed up in this, you know, the midterm election. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So I'm hopeful that whatever this that's going on in our society is correcting itself. Yeah, I hope so. So, but when you come out here, you, like, because, like, if I look at the filmography, I mean, you did a lot of little things. A lot of little, but that's, to me, though, that's where you gain your

confidence. But when you come out here, so what do you do? You just, it's right after your mom passes? No, it's after I graduate college. And then we were on the quarter system. So it's like my last quarter at Auburn. I had the opportunity to work with the casting director that I had worked with. As an intern?

As an intern. There was a project that she was working on, and I had the opportunity to work on it. And it just sort of cemented in my heart, like, this is really, really what I love and want to do. And all, from that point on, all of the directors that I worked with, because I worked as a location casting assistant for a while. And all of the directors would say, you know, for the one or two line parts, like, you know. And because I worked as a location casting assistant for a while. Yeah. And all of the directors would say, you know, for the one or two line parts, like, you know, because I'm so animated, as you can see. Yeah. You know, I just want someone with a, you know, a great, you know, personality, like Octavia.

Yeah. You know, so I would always be the reference. And I thought, oh. And they would always ask me, you know, do you want to read? You should read for this waitress thing. And I was like, oh, no, no, no, no. You know, no, I work behind the scenes. And then when I got the job to work with a different casting director location, we still, my boss still did the extras,

but she didn't have anything to do with the location. And I loved A Time to Kill. I was expecting that the director would say, well, I want someone, you know, like Octavia. But Joel Schumacher did not ask me to read for that film. And I thought, isn't it funny that I thought, well, I kind of want to read for this one. And I asked. And you were working on it?

I was working on it in the extras casting. And you usually keep extras casting well away from everything, you know. Or at least the offices were always kept far away from the production office. But I thought, well, surely I'm going to be asked. And I was not. And so I had to ask. And I asked Joel if I could be the woman who started this riot.

asked Joel if I could be the woman who started this riot. You know, there was a whole thing about Sam Jackson's character. You know, if you know the story of Time to Kill, there was this clash between the KKK and other activists. And I wanted to be one of the activists and the town's members that started the riot. And Joel Schumacher said to me, no, honey, no, your face is too sweet. He said, but you can read for Sandy's nurse. And, you know, I read for Sandra Bullock's nurse. And I didn't know at that time the course that he would be setting me on. I, when you look at those little parts, I played a lot of nurses. Yeah.

A lot of nurses and a lot of bus drivers, and I can't drive a bus. Looking back on that, did you feel that it was typecasting? I had no clue. But now, in hindsight. In hindsight, definitely. Because I thought, well, what is a sweet nurse face? The sweet, sweet, you know, you get on the bus, you want a sweet bus driver. You know, so I literally, when I got here, I studied.

I started. With who? I studied with a woman by the name of Anita Jesse. And she taught all of these, you know, Meisner. She taught all of the different techniques. Yeah. Did you walk into that stuff? I love it. I love the different techniques. Yeah. Did you walk into that stuff? I love it.

I love the different techniques. And then, you know, sometimes you have to pull out a different – for me, you go into your bag of tricks and it's like, I'm going to need a little Meisner on this. Really? What makes you decisive like that? Like, you know, some people aren't that specific, but when you think in terms of like, I need a Meisner tool.

I need a Meisner tool because if it's a director that is going to do a lot of takes, you have to be able to keep it fresh. Okay. If it's a director like Clint Eastwood, it's like two or three takes and you're on, you're like, okay, wow, that's great. And that's it. Then that's it. But, you're like, okay, wow, that's great. And then that's it. But, you know. What's a method tool? A method tool for me is existing within the scene itself. Oh, yeah.

But the thing about the method, I didn't like it necessarily because, you know, you actually have to do those things. You actually have to, you know. And I started rationalizing. It's like if I'm going to play a killer, I'm actually not going to go out and start killing things and people. So I pulled away from that and stayed mostly with Meisner. And stayed mostly with Meisner. But for Ma and violence or anything where there could be violence, if my character, if there was ever going to be a spark of that, I would deal with method. Oh, yeah? You can't play angry.

You have to be angry. You actually physically have to be angry. You can't play sick. You actually have to be sick. Yeah. And you find you can do that with some focus? I find that with focus and slowing your energy down, if you're playing sick, you have to slow your energy down. When I did recently, we were doing The Witches and my character, Grandma, gets sick and I'm laying in bed and I'm breathing so and then everybody got worried they were like is she sick is she and i was like no guys i'm playing sick

i can't play sick i actually have to be it you know but you use it yeah in a very practical way you're like i'm going to apply yeah i have to slow my energy down i have to you know just you know breathe you have to physically and there's there's there physically. And there's that with method. Yeah. And this is just how you put it together. It's just how I put it together. I take little bits from each school. I'm looking at the resume now, and it's sort of astounding how many nurses.

I played a lot. And here's the thing. The one nurse part I was dying to play was one with Kevin Costner in a movie called Dragonfly. And I was dying to play that nurse, and I didn't get that nurse part. Oh, you didn't get that nurse? And it just crushed my soul. But these all seem like, I'm just looking at the names of them. Baby nurse.

Nurse one. Yeah. But like a lot of these things, even like unemployment clerk. Mm-hmm. Check-in girl. Check-in girl. Lady in elevator. That is a journeyman actor.

But it's a lot. And these are all like one or two line bits. They were one or two line bits. Yeah. But that is where I think you start. But professionally, you cut your teeth on those, but that's why you also need to be studying technique while you're playing those. But also just to keep hope alive, I would think. Yeah. And set etiquette.

Learning, you know, because it's very different. The other thing that I love working behind the scenes on a set, you understand, you know, it's the practicum, you know? Well, yeah, that's the great thing about having the opportunities you did is that you really do know how a set works. I do. And you're almost, I'm not saying this about you in particular, but these roles are relatively invisible.

Completely invisible. Yeah. Completely invisible. Completely invisible. Yeah. Completely invisible. But it's about also gaining confidence, just graduating because now you understand. Here's the thing. What I would never

have wanted to be, and I'm glad that my career unfolded the way that it did, what I would never have wanted to be is a person who got, like, a series regular role having never spent

any time on a set. Yes. If got like a series regular role having never spent any time on a set. Um, if I got a series regular role, um, immediately out of college, uh, without the foundation of, you know, the, the, the one line part, understanding how integral that little one line was to the scene. It's about who you are as a human being and how you conduct yourself on the actual set versus who you are as a character. And I think when you're younger and less experienced, you're going to show up and you're going to do what you need to do for the character. Right. And you may not be the best person because you don't appreciate. Yeah.

You know what I mean? Yeah. If you haven't had that. Sure. That training. Yeah, yeah, of course. The life training. And also, like, it would also, the possibilities of getting a series regular, like, you could

kind of, like, you would have to learn on the job. On the job. Yeah. And risk failure. And that on the job. On the job. And risk failure. And that's the thing. That's what I loved about having the cushion of baby nurse. Yeah, sure. Because it was – and then you graduate, though.

And then you graduate, you know, from the two-line part to, okay, you're going to get three scenes. And it was just this very gradual – Nice evolution. Yeah. Yeah. It's just this very gradual. Nice evolution. Yeah. Yeah.

And then you've, like, you're, because I had a series on IFC and I knew that just from other comics that, like, I'm going to eat it. I'm going to have to learn how to do this on camera for a season. Mm-hmm. You know? And I was like, but I knew that. Mm-hmm. This is what's happening. Yeah.

And there's nothing you can do to get around it. There's nothing you can do to get around it. There's nothing you can do to get around it. There's no cheat for it. Yeah. It's like, you know, you're just going to be like, what am I doing with my hands? Exactly. But the other thing is, you know, when you study and then you appreciate the stage, you appreciate character development, you appreciate all of that stuff so i i for me it would be i would say to anybody look just you know be go go be honest that everybody it should be a prerequisite that you

work behind the scenes because then you understand how important your crew is yeah and there's a deference to the crew yeah there's a deference to everybody else. Yeah. There's a deference to everybody else's life, you know. So when was the big – when did you feel like you finally arrived? It's going to shock you. Yeah. The very first part I got with Sandra Bullock, I felt like I had arrived because someone was paying me to pursue my dreams. Okay. So, you know what I mean? And then I just knew that you have to grow and evolve.

And, because I knew I wasn't going to stay being the invisible character. Yeah, right. So I felt that I had arrived then. Right. And I think that optimism, that blind optimism kept me. Oh, that's good. You know what I mean? Yeah. But what, as, as you went on and as you did bigger parts, because you did a lot of little parts. I did a lot of little parts. I mean, you really paid your dues. Honey, you know what I'm saying? And that's, but that's, that, but that is the way of a journeyman actor. You know what I mean?

Yeah. And then I started doing guest spots on television and characters that had a, you know, instead of one line or two lines in one scene, you've been entrusted with three scenes. By the time I had the opportunity to read for the help i could do it yeah i mean without even thinking without without thinking without you know without uh there's a you just there's a confidence there's a you know you know that you have to tell this character's story there's no fear that i'm not going to be able to tell the story. Yeah, yeah. So I could do the part. And, you know, but if you had asked me, you know, in that journey of, you know, I can't even think of the countless one line parts. Yeah.

If you had asked me then, I would have thought, yeah, I'm ready. And then like you, he's coming in hot. You don't know. You don't know. I was just all jacked up. Yeah, jacked up and ready. But there is a – I think when I started to do guest parts and the other thing. On TV?

On TV. Well, here's the thing. Yeah. Stephen Bochco. I was a huge bochco fan yeah you know some people audition well and some people don't and i work you know in a casting office so once you got over the like oh yeah you know i gotta go do this and then you're doing it in the room and it's like, I actually can do this. Stephen Bochco, I was reading for it. I don't even remember. No, I do remember now.

It was the show City of Angels, a hospital drama. I read for a part. And in the room, and see, I had never done a test where you walk into a room. Usually they're like a casting director, three or four people. Maybe a couple of producers. But this was like – there's like 15 people in the room. For a test? Yeah.

But I didn't realize that it was that. Yeah, yeah. That it was the big callbacks and then you're signing contracts and those kinds of things. But I didn't realize that it was that, you know, that it was the big callbacks. And then, you know, you're signing contracts and those kinds of things. But I didn't realize it was that. So you walk in and I'm a person who always has stage fright. You do? Always. And so, you know, the minute you walk out there, though, when you're on stage and it's live, you have, you know, your two steps in before you go, do I remember my lines?

You know, that panic. And then the minute you walk out there and when you start saying the lines, all that dissipates. But, boy, it's a tremorous walk. So how did you do theater? Let me tell you. I had a ritual. And you know, the thing that I love about theater is the rehearsal process. I love rehearsal because that's the

discovery stage. So you do all of that rehearsal and you're figuring out this character and then you have to do it in front of people. I was so stressed out that I broke out like in fever, like just like, oh God, I'm going to have to perform this. I would get to the theater. I would do my makeup, get in hair, get into costumes. Kind of really like what I do now. Get into costume, go through hair and makeup, do my hair and makeup. And then I would go check my props and I would sit behind stage and run my lines. And I would do that every single night.

There was never a night that I – and we would run Thursday, Friday, Saturday. It was a play called The Trials and Tribulations of a Trailer Trash Housewife. Yeah. The first one. And you – Thursday, Friday, Saturday, twice on Sunday. And so if you imagine, and we ran for nine months. Where was this? In New York?

This was here. Oh, here. 99 seat theater. And all those hours of running the lines, I never before performance did not run my lines. And so it's – and I – it just sort of sets you free. That's your – Because, you know. That's how you do it?

That's how I do it. It's so funny because David Harbour tells that story about – because I'd like to do theater now. I'd really love to do some theater. But just that moment where he said he was on stage, you know, doing his play in New York. And it's literally like 10 seconds before his entrance. And he's like, somebody give me a fucking script. Like that's going to help you.

I know. I understand, David. I killed me when he told me that story. Just that panic. Like a few seconds, you're like, I don't know anything. I don't know these. I don't know my lines.

Oh, my God. And that's the thing. It's like, oh, I'm going to go up on the line. You don't want. I got to be there for my actor. Yeah. But I read, did you do like speech and debate too? I loved.

See, that's kind of where. And that debate is when you think about it, that's what lawyers do. Yeah, yeah. They debate. So I thrived. All through high school? Yeah. That's the sweet spot.

So that's how you got, you know, you honored your mother's dream for you and your obsession with that. Yeah. And then you earned it. Well, that must have taught you how to be on stage a bit. But you know what's funny is now in hindsight I realize that. But it was a different thing. I'm not presenting a character. I'm presenting facts and stating, you know, just arguing a point.

And it's the same way. You have to research your points you have to know your uh your subject yeah and and it's the same sure so what were we talking about why were we at that audition with bochco like oh yeah he um he he saw something he saw something uh and because i had a like the what you walk into a room it's like oh hey jen you know because she had like what you walk into a room and it's like, oh, hey, you know, because, you know, you it's a callback. Yeah. Are you you know, you walk into the room and it's like, oh, there are a thousand people in here. And it was it was like a little mini theater. You know, it's like, what is going on? Yeah. You know, and so and I'm sure like the deer in the hay because I'm one of those people.

And I'm sure, like, the deer in the head, because I'm one of those people. I do not have a poker face. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, you just do, ugh. Yeah. You know, and he, I think, you know, it was like, hell, okay, that was, thank you so much. I think I was being dismissed by the casting director. He's like, no, no, I want to see her do it again. And I want you to do this, this, this, and this.

And then, you know, I i was like was able to take the note and you know again you know you you let go of the fear yeah but i'm not gonna lie i blew that that first time through it was you know stumbling and looking around the room and not not being present you know like as a character yeah it really is especially with those because you do they have you sign all these contracts yeah you're waiting with three other people that just, they don't want you to get it. And everyone's being polite and weird. And you probably know one of them from television. And you're like, oh, God, I'm screwed.

And see, what I love about the women that I came up with, and it was the same group that you would normally see auditioning, there were a couple that would engage in the mind. Yeah, the mind. Yeah, fucking. Fuckery. Yeah. But they're only the couple, you know, and the rest of us is like, oh, well, I like this room. I'd like to get this part, but if I don't, I don't mind.

And so when you free yourself of the expectation and you just go in there and do the audition, it was, you know, it became fun. Sure. Well, that's good. Yeah. Yeah, because I think that's what was daunting to me. Yeah. Like, it was just, like, I couldn't get past the fact that, you know, because I never focused on it.

You know, I had agents here and there, and I'd go out for these sitcom auditions, and I'd literally be like, I'd get there and be like, oh, that guy's going to be better at this than me. I can't. There's no way. I cannot laugh at you. Oh, my God. Just sort of like, that guy's here?

Why am I even bothering? That is so funny. That is so funny. That is so funny. And it just is like one of these things where sometimes I get cast in things. I'm like, you know, there's better people that can do this. I appreciate it. But I don't know. But I guess that's just my own insecurity.

So you, after the help, I mean, that was, everything changed, right? Well, not as quickly as people thought. Because this is where we get back to the typecasting, where people wanted to see you a certain way. And I had my agent at the time, who is now my producing partner. We just knew that we weren't going to take the roles because everybody and their mama had just done the help and it hadn't come out yet. Well, no, after the Oscar, yeah, people had seen it, but I was still being offered roles like, and I won't even say like the one that won me the Oscar, like, and I won't even say like the one that won me the Oscar, but just not with the depth and not with the humor.

It's like, you know, I just played the best made role written. And if they're going to keep bringing those to me, we're going to have to keep saying no. Like, what's different about this made? No, like if it's like, what is it? What's different about this maid? Did you think this was for did you think it was not just typecast because of the role, but did you feel like it was racial typecasting? No, I what I felt is that people don't have any imagination. They see you a certain way. And if you allow yourself, you your perception keep taking the gig yeah and it's like no you know

yeah I can't take that gig right because there's nothing interesting about this character more interesting than the role that I just played right

that put me on people's radar right so things took off when you know we

I got to you know work with director Bong June Ho who won for Paras, you know, we, I got to, you know, work with director Bong Joon-ho, who won for Parasite. You know, I went and did Snowpiercer and just started doing different. That's a crazy movie. Right? But it was so fun, you know?

That's a train movie. It was a train movie and it was an action film. And I thought I was in high cotton i'm telling you just learning how to do stunts and it was it was intense but it was it was a lot of fun working with chris and uh john hurt and tilda swinton yeah uh jamie bell and luke pasqualino i mean there was a there was this wonderful wonderful ensemble crew. Crew, yeah. Yeah. So do you turn things down regularly?

Yeah. I mean, no is my favorite word. Yeah. But is it not just for role reasons, but for, you know? Well, I don't choose projects necessarily by the role that's being offered to me. I look at it as a whole, like what's the creative team behind it. Most of the stuff that

I've done was written for me. It's like, or it's a writer-director. The writer is the director. Like The Shape of Water? Like The Shape of Water with Guillermo. Sweet guy. He wrote the, I love him. He's so funny. Yeah. He's so funny. But he wrote it for me. And we thought that we would, it was like a 30 minute meeting that was on the books and it turned into a three hour

lunch. And it was so, he's so fascinating. I was already a fan and he then he said we had one sentence about the project he's like oh i wrote the script and i wrote the part just for you i don't want to tell you anything about it um you know i i you know just let me know it was like so then i went home and i read the first page and my character was not in the first page i knew on the first page though that i wanted to do it. So I let the agents know. I'm like, I want to do this. And then I kept reading it. Because when I saw the world that he was creating, I just knew that I had to be a part of it. Yeah.

You know what I mean? So I choose projects as a whole, not necessarily characters. And what about pay? Play into it? Well, pay definitely, you know, plays into it. The only reason I ask that is because, like, I know, you know, and I don't talk about much with actors, that, you know, the disparity. Oh, there is a disparity. Let me tell you. One of the things is it's hilarious when people come and there's this adulation.

And it's like, oh, well, okay, great. And by the time they get to you, they've already cast all these other roles. And by the time they get to you, they've run out of dollars and they want to give you the cents. It's like, honey, y'all got to come back with some dollars. Right, right, yeah. Right, right, yeah. I mean, I definitely had to walk away from things that I know. You have money. They always have money.

They always have money. Now, independent usually don't. That's different. And so it's like if I need, if I understand the world that you're creating, if I have faith in the director, if I have time. Yeah. Those are the things. And if I understand my way into this character. But studio things, I'm like, you guys, you want me to do what? Yeah.

You know? Yeah. So it's interesting now, the truth be told thing is almost like, it's almost like those TV shows you used to watch. Well, it definitely is like the, but this, I love a procedural. Yeah. I love a procedural. Well, it's an interesting approach because, you know, it's actually – it is a new character, a crime podcaster who gets involved in the crime kind of.

And what's funny is she's a journalist and she knows that she should never be a part – that's the first – the 101 journalism, you know, that you are never a part of the story, the journalist. And so Poppy is always a part of the story because, you know, she's also she's left. I won't say she left has left journalism behind. It's more of the investigative part of instead of writing it, she's presenting it, you know. But also like the nature of the podcast, it makes you kind of a celebrity. Yeah. Yeah. Right? It is.

And I don't think that she thinks that it's about, you know, celebrity. I think she really does think that she's in pursuit of the truth and justice for the victim. But each season, we find something new out about her and what her motives are. And this season is very interesting. It's, you know, season one, she has to revisit, you know, her very first, the case that made her career, that brought her that fame. Yeah. And, you know. Season two is the Kate Hudson season?

Season two is the Kate Hudson season. It's a friendship um and uh you know revisiting um her childhood with with a a friend yeah and there's a a murder that she has to solve and uh a lot of relationships are being severed and now season three it's it's looking back on all of those things that happened to her personally and um and what and how she conducts herself in the investigation. And it's also about, you know, what happens when young people go missing or people, young people, anybody goes missing, especially young people. especially young people, but the disparity in media coverage or what could be the cause, you know, if it's human trafficking. And the anguish that the families go through. And this season, our show creator, this is a story that's personal to her.

Oh, really? That she pitched that the season should be about. And then our showrunner, so Nichelle Tramble-Spelman, you know, posited this idea for the season. Lawson just, I think, you know, really leaned into the story and came up with this wonderful idea. And I think it's our best season yet. Oh, it's great. Yeah. And it's interesting, though, when we were talking earlier about, you know, taking a recurring character role, like now it's happened. Yeah.

And I think you're ready now. Well, definitely ready now. And especially, this is my genre, though. Right, but it doesn't look like you've done any of that. I haven't. Well, the thing is, because this is a choice that I made for myself. I didn't allow anybody else to make this choice for me. It's like, I want to do something in this investigative procedural vein.

And this seems like a unique approach. It is a unique approach. And there aren't any shows where the podcaster is at the center of things or that's centering around- Usually they're basing shows on podcasts. Yes. This is actually a character. A character that does a podcast. Yes.

Yeah. And she's also investigating. Yes. Look what happened. Look what I helped's also investigating. Yes. Look what happened. Look what I helped happen. Exactly. Exactly. Look at me. I'm partially responsible for the popularization

of the form. Exactly. Yes. And you're having fun and you're excited. I really, I'm very blessed. I mean,

I'm working with Makai Pfeiffer every season and Ron Cephas Jones every season. And then you get the opportunity to work with Aaron Paul and Elizabeth Perkins and Lizzie Kaplan in season one. Last season, it was Kate Hudson. This season, Gabrielle Union and Peter Gallagher. Gabrielle Union and Peter Gallagher. And then our main character, our returning cast,

Mekhi Pfeiffer, Ron Cephas Jones, you know, Hanifa Wood, Tracy Toms. Talk about a big, Tammy Roman. So when you get to show up each day to work and you have these amazing actors that you're, you know, in the scenes with and you love the material, what's not to love about that? Exactly. Yeah, it's great.

And is there movies coming? We just had Spirit come out, this movie with Ryan Reynolds and Will Ferrell. That Christmas movie? Yeah, it was Apple. I didn't watch it. Did people like it? people liked it it's the biggest

film on on the Apple platform oh god I gotta watch it I almost watched it because those guys are so funny I didn't realize

you were in it too yeah well hello see and what I love about it is how and

that I am also in a different light. Well, I don't want to say anything. I don't want to spoil it for you. Well, Christmas is over. Christmas is over, but you might want to go there. Did you do scenes with both of them? I did. My character is Ryan's, I guess today you'd call assistant, but basically his secretary.

They're both so funny. Let me tell you something. Yeah. It was sheer heaven watching them opposite each other. And then making sure that when I'm in the scene, if I break, it's because it's actually, I'm going to laugh because the character laughs. But you know what I mean? Just, it was magical, you know, working with them.

That's great. Well, it was great talking to you. It was great being here. Thank you for having me. Yeah. Thanks for doing it. There you go. What a lovely person.

The new season of Truth Be Told premieres this Friday, January 20th on Apple TV+. And look, hang out a minute. I'm not going to go make the cake yet. Soon, though, but hang out. It's a night for the whole family. Be a part of Kids Night

when the Toronto Rock take on the Colorado Mammoth at a special 5 p.m. start time on Saturday, March 9th at First Ontario Centre in Hamilton. The first 5,000 fans in attendance will get a Dan Dawson bobblehead courtesy of Backley Construction. Punch your ticket to Kids Night on Saturday, March 9th at 5 p.m. in Rock City at torontorock.com.

March 9th at 5 p.m. in Rock City at torontorock.com. As I mentioned, people, the Wrestling with Mark miniseries kicked into full gear this week, and there are new episodes over the next four weeks on the Full Marin feed. If you want to hear how it all got started, we put the first episode out on December 6th for Full Marin subscribers. It's called The Beginning. And this week we dropped the second episode, The Training. Here's a little of that.

He's got the table and he's bringing it back into the ring. There's something funny about this, right? Is that you'll notice this table is out. He's going to put it in the ring. Now that table is going to sit there for about, I don't know, five, ten minutes.

There's no way that the match can end before the table. It's like Chekhov's table. Yeah. Right? So, any kind of thing that you're putting on now, you know, like, all right, this is all set up to what you're going to do with the table. So, that also impacts how they're going to build around the match. There come the chairs. Sign up for the full Marin to follow along.

Go to WTFpod.com and click on WTF Plus or just go to the link in this episode's description. Next week, it's Canada Week. On Monday, we have director Sarah Pauly to talk about her new movie, Women Talking, and her life. We also share part of my talk with Jesse Brown from the podcast Canada Land. On Thursday, dual citizen Brendan Fraser talks with me about the whale and everything that went

into it and other stuff. It was an intense conversation. Here's some slide guitar for you. guitar solo guitar solo guitar solo Boomer lives. Monkey and La Fonda. Cat angels everywhere.