WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1406 - Dave Franco

Episode Date: February 2, 2023

Dave Franco is a successful actor but that doesn’t mean he was full of confidence when he began directing his first feature. Dave tells Marc how he overcame the fear of the unknown once he stepped on set to call action for the first time. They also talk about how the timing of the pandemic worked out for the release of that film, The Rental, and how his latest film, Somebody I Used to Know, started as a script he wrote with his wife, Alison Brie, during quarantine. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category,

and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Lock the gates! Alright, let's do this. How are you, what the fuckers? What the fuck, buddies? What the fuck,

nicks? What's happening? I'm Mark Maron. This is my podcast, WTF. Welcome to it. I hope you're well. I hope you're well. I hope you're hanging in there. It's been kind of nice here in LA the last few days. It's chilly. I like it chilly. I'm wearing my overcoat in the studio. I just got this overcoat back. It's an old overcoat. I needed new buttons and a new lining, and I got them, and I rarely get to wear it. So right now, I'm in the studio with my overcoat on. It's very exciting. It's like a blanket. I don't know where you are. If you're in the middle of that Arctic blast, I hope you're okay. Don't drive if it's black ice. Black ice is very scary.

I don't know if there's black ice out there, but that's real. I never really knew what it was until I came across it. You know, it seems crazy, right? Black ice. What does that even mean? It means it's ice that looks like the road and your tires have no traction at all. I've driven in all kinds of weather. That's one thing I've got above a lot of people out here. People out in LA, things slow down.

A lot of traffic is just because people are idiots and don't really know how to drive in a little bit of rain. Also, there's a problem with the lines on the roads. I don't think that LA ever prepared for any weather. As soon as the roads get wet, you cannot see lanes at all. I don't know why I'm talking about this. Really, it's just coming out of the fact that I hope you're all right. I hope you're all right. I hope you're all right.

For those of you keeping up, and I know sometimes I forget to do this, is that I talk about something on the last show, and then I kind of leave you hanging. And it doesn't come back around. I will tell you what's up. But let me first tell you that Dave Franco is on the show. You know him from Scrubs, 21 Jump Street, Now You See Me, Neighbors, The Disaster Artist, and The After Party. Actor, brother of an actor.

He's married to my GLOW co-star, Alison Brie, and he just directed his second feature, which is a romantic comedy he wrote with Alison called Somebody I Used to Know. And it's a pretty clever romantic comedy. I didn't really realize until after I Used to Know. And it's a pretty clever romantic comedy. I didn't really realize until after I talked to him just how many romantic comedies are kind of a little dark in a way, in terms of characters, in terms of intentions. And I don't think I ever really

thought about it until near the end of this conversation, but, uh, had a lovely chat with Mr. Franco who I've seen and met a few times because, uh, again, he's married to Alison Brie, who was my co-star for years, three to be exact on glow. Okay. Getting into it. I was talking about my health, my tests, and my new diet post the cleanse. And I told you I was moving towards a blood test that I had two days ago or on the 31st. And I got the results fairly quickly. And I just want to say now I'm on a statin, and my concern was cholesterol, really, because I have borderline cholesterol, which I assume was genetic. And I'm on a statin 10 milligrams a day. Now, on September 7th, 2022, I had blood tests where I was told that I had borderline, if not a little high cholesterol and maybe a little pre-diabetic. That was September 7th. Now, I don't know what's transpired. I'm still on the statin, but

I did a week without any meat of any kind, any dairy or anything, just a plant-based diet for the week leading up to the blood test. Now, I still take the statins, and I started taking some red yeast rice, which I don't think works, but nonetheless, doesn't matter, and I exercise compulsively. So, this is four months later or so. My numbers on September 7th, my LDL was 129. That's high, My LDL was 129. That's high. Not good. That's the bad cholesterol.

My good cholesterol, my HDL on September 7th, 2022 was 89. High. But that's okay. It's good. And my non-HDL, the total, which is just the numbers, including the LDL, I think, is 138. That's on September 7th, 2022. Not great. The other day, my LDL 80, 80. Are you fucking kidding me? It's never been 80, 80 down from 129. Now granted, I take a small amount of statin, but that's not just the statin. Had to be the diet. My HDL was 84. Again, high, but that's okay. I asked why it's high. The doc said

it should probably just exercise. And the non-HDL was 93. So those numbers, spectacular, inspiring. And my glucose was good. Fine. Everything's fine. It's exciting. And my pulse is like 52. And the doc, they were like, the nurse was like, you know, you gotta,

oddly the nurse was my drummer, Ned Brower. He's a nurse. Said your pulse is low. And I'm like, that's because I go up a goddamn hill three times a week. Like I think doing massive incline cardio is, it's good. So I've got a marathon runner's pulse.

I think that's good, right? It's a little scary sometimes. I'm like, that seems slow, 52 to 55, but whatever. So that's the deal. There you go. Very exciting numbers. Now I just got to stop smoking the fucking cigars again, got off the nicotine all over again. I'll be perfect. That's all we're trying to be, right, people? That's all any of us are trying to get to is perfection, complete perfection.

And, you know, I'm 59 years old, and it feels like I'm finally going to achieve perfection. No. Just stay in shape. Take care of yourself. But that's what happened. That's a pretty good end to that story. Okay, listen, I'm going to talk about something serious and something important

and something that maybe a lot of people don't know about. Now, I've talked a lot about this idea in America, culturally, comedically, that there's this notion among certain tribes of comedians that you can't say anything anymore. You're not allowed. There's censorship. You can't say things. Now, what I've always said is that you can say whatever you want. And I do not think, I just did an interview with a guy for Variety. He asked me, do I think there's anything you can't joke about? No. You can, if you can figure it out, tell jokes about whatever you want.

And the truth is you can say whatever you want. It just, there may be consequences. There may be cultural consequences. You may get pushback. There may be democratically motivated groups of people that push back through action because you've insulted a way of life or decisions that people make collectively in a group of people, marginalized people. And that's the way democracy works. You can say whatever you want. There may be consequences, and you have to decide whether you're going to shoulder those consequences. I mean, I did it with this special coming out in a couple of weeks, February 11th,

my HBO special from bleak to dark premieres on HBO. There's things I said there that I knew, uh, were calculated risk. I knew that saying some of this stuff I said on there, though funny was going to make some people angry. You know, I'm a comic and I've been one for a long time,

and I've never been one not to take chances. So however they want to frame me, the few that do, as being woke or whatever, whatever. The truth is I've said things that I knew were going to cause some people to be angry and that there may be pushback. I made that decision and I was willing to take that risk because that's what we can do here. That's what it really means. There is freedom of speech. You can say whatever you want. There just may be consequences and you have to decide whether you can handle those or whether they're necessary

and what is your intention. A lot of questions, but all that aside, there's something going on in Iran. Okay. Their anti-government protests have been going on there since September. Tens of thousands of protesters have been arrested and tortured and hundreds of them have been killed. I'm sure you've seen some of this in the news or wherever you get your information. But despite this, or maybe because of it, as is usually the case, because of the nature of comedy, there is still a stand-up comedy scene in Iran. It's small, but it exists. There is still a stand-up comedy scene in Iran. It's small, but it exists. And one of the comics on the scene there in Iran is Zainab Mousavi.

Now, here's the deal about Zainab. She was the winner of a comedy competition on state TV in Iran. So that got her known throughout the country. And then she started up a weekly standup show in, in West Tehran. She gained a reputation for, for, you know, doing what some of us do, taking shots at the government, taking shots at fundamentalists. I do both of those things. And she was already getting just from doing right at the beginning, right after doing that, she was getting violent threats well before last September, before the protests started. And when the protests started, she began posting a lot on Instagram with jokes and sketches about the government, about the state police. So on October 13th, she was arrested.

Okay. On October 13th, she was arrested. Okay. She spent a month in solitary confinement, after which she was released on bail. Now that, that is what it looks like when you can't say anything. When you do not have a constitution that enables you the ability to say what you want and the government steps in and puts you in jail. That's what it looks like in a country where you literally can't say some things because you will be imprisoned. Not because you've aggravated a community of people that barely have a voice in the culture, or you've made fun of people

for shortcomings that are the struggle of their life, and you say that, well, they need to get a better sense of humor about it. I mean, come on. Different. Different than pushback. on different, different than pushback, different than cultural consequences. This woman was put in jail. Now, since then, Zeynep learned that she's been sentenced to an additional two years in prison, although she has not been given a court date and there's no word on when her sentence will begin. This is a country where you can't say things, yet she still did. And she continues to make jokes. She has a new Instagram page set up at im.ziz underscore

M-O-U. That's where she's got the new Instagram set up. And she's still posting there regularly. She doesn't want to go back to jail, but she doesn't want to be silenced either. That is cojones. That is courage. That is truly, you know, fighting the power, fighting authoritarianism, fighting a government that may kill her for telling jokes about said government. Now, we found out about Zainab from an Iranian-American comic named Sarah Fatimi. And we asked Sarah how we can help. And the answer is, frankly, by talking about it. You can't send money to Iran because of sanctions, and there aren't any outside aid groups that are going to stop the jailings and executions. The only way to potentially stop it is by talking about it

loudly and frequently. This is a situation where social media is actually important. If you keep Zainab M Musavi's name out there, it becomes more likely the government will not want the hassle of going through with her sentence. In the 80s, they mass executed thousands of protesters and there was no real attention on it because it was the 80s and there was no social media.

But now we can keep attention on them. So on whatever social media you use, hashtag the name Zainab Mousavi. That's Z-E-I-N-A-B-M-O-U-S-A-V-I, along with a message of support. That will help. We'll post her name on our socials along with some other entertainers who are arrested for performing and are under the threat of execution. So look, whatever you can do to boost awareness about them, it's helpful. Could be life-saving. And if you think it doesn't help, it does. And it has. There have already been prisoners who

were released because their cases were publicized on social media. For all those times you wondered whether it was worth it to have a Twitter account or an Instagram page. This is when it's actually worth it. So I want to thank Sarah Fatimi for bringing this to our attention. Thanks to you for listening and, and, and thanks for taking action it's just like you hear these whiny hacks in this country talking about the struggle

that they're facing because they can't make fun of marginalized groups or people struggling or people making choices that they think are silly or stupid or wrong. They can't make fun of those people with impunity. So they whine like they're the victims. You know, it's child's play compared to what's going on in Iran, compared to what Zeynep Mousavi is up against. Child's play. All right, so I know that was serious, but now let's shift gears and talk to Dave Franco. His movie, Somebody I Used to Know,

comes out next Friday, February 10th on Prime Video. I enjoyed it. Allison is in it. There's a lot of funny people in it and some people I didn't know. It was very well acted and clever. Clever story. And this is me and Dave doing the thing.

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at a special 5 p.m. start time on Saturday, March 9th at First Ontario Centre in Hamilton. The first 5,000 fans in attendance will get a Dan Dawson bobblehead courtesy of Backley Construction. Punch your ticket to Kids Night on Saturday, March 9th at 5 p.m. in Rock City at torontorock.com. So you said Alison cooks a lot? Alison is a great cook. We learned during the pandemic that I physically would not survive without her because she was just providing all the food for us. I am incompetent when it comes to that.

But has she got, like, I mean, she has to eat pretty specifically to maintain her, like, 0 or her.001 body fat. She's in incredible shape. Yeah, she's got her go-to. She's got the turkey eggplants, and it's a lot of bowls. A lot of, you got your protein, you got your grain.

Oh, yeah? Is that how she does it? Yeah. I just remember when we were doing GLOW mostly almonds oh interesting it's like is that all she's eating is anyone checking on allison if she's eating more than almonds we are a big almond household to be fair but she uh yeah she's uh she's lean as fuck yeah she's in great shape she could kick my ass. I mean, I work with this trainer whose, I guess, husband also works down at the gym where Allison works out. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah.

And she's always like, Allison's so strong. I'm like, I know, I know. Isn't it incredible? She puts up these videos where she's doing like 10 pull-ups. I'm just like, where did this come from? What's going on? It's been going on for a while, buddy. I know. Because I'm in denial just because I this come from? What's going on? It's been going on for a while, buddy. I know.

Because I'm in denial just because I know she's in so much better shape than me. You don't do anything? No, I do some stuff at home. Yeah? Yeah.

I get a little intimidated going to like a real gym with a bunch of people kind of watching and whatnot. Especially that gym. It sounds like everyone's there. It's insane.

Just, I've never been over there, but I've worked with two trainers who are the wives of people that train there. Sure, sure, sure. The trainers at that gym, because Allison set me up with them.

Oh, cool. So I work out with their wives. So I get, you know, it's not crazy. It could be. I'm sure they could do it. What are your goals? What do you really want to get at this point? Not to be obsessed.

Not to be obsessed. With it. Oh, with it. Yeah, and to just stay kind of like in shape. Yeah. You know what I mean? But like it's weird. You get to like when you start doing it, and if you get to a certain point where you see results, you're like, let's push it, man.

Where's the creatine? Give me some roids. I want some HGH. I need to get big. I'm not doing that. No. No. I'd like to be relatively toned and lean.

Yeah. And I do a lot of cardio. You look great, man. You look fantastic. I'm 59. Holy shit. I know. I look at your age and I look at, I feel like everyone just stopped aging and that all of

a sudden I'm old. I disagree. Oh. I think you look fucking great. Well, I appreciate that. Yes, I mean it. I mean, I don't think I look that, but but like all of a sudden, like when I hit this certain age and I look at other people's ages, I'm like, I always thought they were like closer to me, age-wise. But they're not.

But there's certain people who really kind of grow into a nice thing and you're on that path, man. Thank fucking God. So, I watched a new movie. Oh, cool. Couple questions right away. Romantic comedy. Yes. Now, is this a, were you thinking like, this is a business deal? What do you mean by that?

I mean, it's a tough genre to make really work. And it's, I don't feel like it's done as much as it used to be. It just seems hard to pull it off. And I think you did a good job. Thanks, man. And I don't feel like it's done as much as it used to be. It just seems hard to pull it off. And I think you did a good job. Thanks, man.

But I mean, the last movie you did was like a horror movie, right? Yes, yes. So these are very specific genre movies. Yeah, they're two genres that I love. Really? Yes, absolutely. I mean, with the first one, I absolutely love horror movies. Yes.

And I think like for a first-time director there's something about horror that allows you to really put your stamp on it because you can just kind of do a lot of fun things stylistically and like in horror movies the stakes are never higher and so you I just feel like you can push the limits in a lot of ways you got some wiggle room because you can just be weird totally like you you don't have to you know the like you can push the limits in a lot of different ways. And you got some wiggle room because you can just be weird. Totally. You know that in order to even take the movie in, people are going to suspend their disbelief. Yeah, a little bit. Yeah, so you don't have to.

Because I just watched, you know, John Swab. I don't know. He's a director out of Oklahoma. What has he done? He did the body broker thing about the drug rehabilitation racket. He's got a new slasher movie called Candyland. You know, those movies when you watch the old ones, the actors can only half act. And it's got such a grime to it.

You kind of think like, could they really be these people? You know, but he's using like, you know, real actors. So there's a cleanness to it. Yes. But still the same amount of blood and weirdness. Yeah. That's like when you watch the original Texas Chainsaw Massacre. Exactly. It's like, oh, this could be a documentary.

Exactly. It's so gritty and raw. Those are the people. Yes. Yeah. Those weirdos are really weirdos. I love it. You guys, you and your brother made a whole movie about a weirdo.

All right. Well, let's wait. Before we talk about the movies, because I talked to James years ago, but you to, you know, James years ago, but I mean, you guys grew up in basically, what was it like a hippie house? Um, I wouldn't go that far, but like definitely. Where were you? We're, uh, Palo Alto. So close to Bay Area. Bay Area.

Yes, definitely. Um, and like our, our whole family is, is weird and artsy for sure. Right. Where my, my parents, they were both painting majors in college. And that's where they met? That's where they met. Like what college? Stanford.

So that's high end. Yeah. I mean, they were serious painters. Definitely. And what kind of, were abstract, figure? Yeah, a little bit. Both of them abstract? Some figure stuff for sure.

Yeah. Yeah. But they both went away from that. My mom became a writer and she's kind of incredible. Still around? Oh, yeah. Okay. She takes on new endeavors like every year where I remember when I started to get serious about acting and my brother had been doing it for a while.

She wanted to like find a way to relate to us. And so she started taking drama classes at Stanford. Relate to you as grownups? I guess so. Yeah, it's very sweet. But I remember she got so into it that she was doing this play at one point where she was this really despicable character. And I remember her calling me one night and she was like, Dave, I'm freaking out. I don't know how to get rid of the part.

It's in me now. It's just like it shows how much she put herself into it. It's very sweet. She got lost in the method. Did she come out of it or is she still that person? So she actually, she came out of it. But she, just this year, she wrote a screenplay and they made it into a movie. Who did?

My mom. The two of them? Or just, I mean, your mom just, is your dad still around? My dad's not around. I'm sorry. That's okay. But I mean, she just produced it? She.

A feature film? Feature film. She, so she wrote the book and then adapted her own book into the screenplay. Yeah. And they just made it independently and. Had nothing to do with you and your brother? My brother's a producer on it. Okay.

But, but like she really pushed this thing. Yeah. It's incredible. Who acted in it? Um, uh, I don't know if there's audition. I did audition. No, I don't know if there's anyone you would know. Uh, but it's, it's, it's incredible.

Like at this age, she's still doing these. What's that called? That is called the art of love. Ah. Yeah. And it's a, what's the story what's crazy is my mom is like this very like gentle wonderful amazing woman and she writes these stories like about you know this is about these these teens living on the street and doing drugs and shit oh god yeah

i remember like she she wrote a book she writes a lot of teen books. And she wrote this one book that she wanted me to wrote. Young adult. Yes, exactly. And she publishes? She does not herself. You mean do her books get published? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. What's her name?

What does she write under? Her name is Betsy Franco. And that's what she writes under? Yeah. Wow. So she's like a popular young adult book writer. She's doing her thing. Always has been?

Kind of always has been. She was originally doing even younger, for younger children. And it's kind of evolved. But like, there was this one book for young adults that she wanted me and my brother to do the audio book for. And I remember sitting there and I'm like reading this book out loud. She's talking about kids getting blowjobs and all this shit. And I'm just like, this is interesting. But she's super inspiring.

So where's the movie? Where can you get the movie? It's not out yet. They are in the editing process as we speak. And she directed it? She did not. No. There's a really, really young kid that she worked with actually.

She met him at our high school. She's always worked with teens. And so she still goes back to our high school. You went to high school with your mother teaching there? No. Okay. No. She taught actually in the area, but no, she did not teach at my high school.

Right. But she goes back and works with teens, and she's really good with them. And so she met this one kid who just went on to go to NYU, and they paired up, and they did this movie together. That's crazy. So you're going to be competing with your mother's movie. I guess so. But she's not going to come over here in a limo. I did not show up in a limo.

It was a truck. It's a truck of some sort. Who's the deal with this movie? Who's putting out this movie? Your movie. My movie, Amazon. Oh, so that's the Amazon car. That's the deal with this movie? Who's putting out this movie? Your movie. My movie, Amazon. Oh, so that's the Amazon car. That's the Amazon car, yes.

I'm going around doing the whole press thing today. Are you dropping packages off, too? Sure, yeah, if they want me to. Did you do TV, or did you dress up for this? I've been doing some TV stuff. Oh, yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah. What'd you end up doing?

Did the Rich Eisen show. I don't know what that is. A sports show. Oh, really? Are you a sports guy? I like sports, yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah. What'd you end up doing? Did the Rich Eisen show. I don't know what that is. It's kind of a sports show. Oh, really? Are you a sports guy? I like sports. Really? Yeah.

Like across the board or specific? I like football and basketball a lot. Okay. Yeah, I have a team for the fourth. So you did that guy's show. What else? You're doing? What did we do?

I did a GQ couples quiz with Allison this morning. Oh, yeah? Yeah, just kind of. It's weird. I've done quiz shows with Allison. Have you? What kind of quiz shows's weird. I've done quiz shows with Allison. Have you? What kind of quiz shows? Well, I don't know.

Just for like, well, we must have been promoting Glow, but I remember they'd ask us. It was some goofy thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not a couple things. Don't get weird. That would be weird. Fourth season, though, we would have been. I know.

Damn it. I know. I know. Yeah. We were all rooting for you guys. It's going to happen. I know. So it. I know. I know. Yeah. We were all rooting for you guys. It's going to happen. I know. So, all right.

So going back though, because your brother's, the other brother, he's in the arts as well? Yeah. He's mainly sculpture and a little bit of painting. Oh, really? Yeah. And so he makes like big sculptures? Yeah. He makes all sizes and it's a lot of like found art.

What's that guy's name? His name's Tom Franco. Look at you guys, your basic-ass names. I know. Kind of classic. You call him basic. I call him classic. James, Dave, and Tom?

That's crazy. It's like a joke. But it's good. It's tight. It's memorable. Thank you. The Franco boys. There you go.

So he does sculptures? Yeah, yeah. Really, it's memorable. Thank you. The Franco boys. There you go. But, so he does sculptures? Yeah, yeah. Really, really incredible stuff. It's like, it's honestly hard to describe. They're very abstract. It's all these found pieces of art that he puts together in these weird kind of Tim Burton-esque sculptures. And that's a tough living. Sure.

Yeah. He finds a way, though, because he does definitely sell his art, but he, he does a lot of things. He like starts these kind of artists communes over the place where, you know, artists have a place to live and a place to show their work. And it's just like a nice place for them all to kind of feed off each other's energy too. It's, it's kind of wild that all you guys are like this communal artists people. I know it's, it's the type of thing like at Thanksgiving. Didn't James fucking go back to graduate school or something? Oh, yeah. We're covering all bases, man. But did you go to, did you study it?

Was this your intention? Are you the middle kid? I'm the youngest. Oh. Yeah. Well, that's rough. It's okay. No?

Yeah. I mean, they're old enough, you know, they're five and seven years older than me, which is enough of a distance that, like, by the time I came around, my parents were just tired and they let me do my thing. Right, but tired, but also, like, they were kind of on their way. Like, when you were in high school, those guys were kind of on their way. Yeah. Gone, right? Definitely, yeah. And you were just what?

What were you thinking you were going to do before you decided to? Maybe writing of some sort. I always like creative writing do you still yeah yeah yeah i mean we wrote this movie me and allison wrote this movie together uh you know i started i started writing um by doing this independent study class in high school where i i it was just me and this one teacher and basically i would go off and write poetry for the week and we would meet up at lunch and go over the poetry I wrote. And I remember at the time, all my friends were like, wait a minute, you're skipping lunch to meet up with Mr. Schoenberg to go over your poetry. And they thought I was all having sex with Mr. Schoenberg. But no, we were just having a great time writing. Oh, that's good. It's good it went that direction.

That story ended well. You don't want to have to kind of tiptoe around Schoenberg. But so poetry, that's good. You must have had a good group of friends that they were just sort of like, oh, thank God you're just writing poetry. Definitely. It was a very progressive school. How those poems look to you now? When was the last time you checked in with the—

Not great. I think my style at the time was- High school? This was high school. I would write out everything in very simple terms, in very simple words, and then I would take out the thesaurus and I would go word by word and basically find a more flowery version of that word. And so it was just these poems comprised of like nonsense words that sounded

smart to me. A lot of synonyms. Isn't that what you look up in a thesaurus? There you go. But so when and why do you kind of start to do the act? Now, when did your dad pass? Passed about 11-ish years ago. So he was around when you were in high school and stuff? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Was he, and did he stay a painter or what'd he end up doing? So he, um, after college, he went away from it for a long time for like 40 years.

40? Yeah. He went into business and he, at, uh, his final couple of years of his life, he actually picked up painting again just as a hobby. Did they stay married?

Yeah. Yeah. And I, those last final years, I'd never seen him happier. And I, it was one of these things where like, you know, I think a lot of people kind of go away from, from these like creative urges that they have because they haven't maybe made a career out of it or whatnot, but like

watching him do that, it was just incredible for him to be like, you know what? I don't need this to be my whole life, but I just need to like do this thing that's in me. And he was really, really happy at the end. Huh. And what was the business that he went away for? He was doing a bunch of different stuff. There was like a bunch of startups that he was trying to get going. And then he was like doing these, doing some philanthropic stuff where he was providing like medicine and telephone systems in India and Afghanistan. Yeah. It got to the point where like all my friends thought he was in the CIA and I couldn't fully deny that because I wasn't convinced. How did he pass?

Heart attack. Oh, was it just quick? It was pretty sudden, yeah. Oh, my God. Yeah, yeah. That's terrible. Yeah. Well, sorry.

That's all right. So when do you decide to do acting? Are you just watching James, like, rise? And you're like, he can do it. Not necessarily. No, I— Because you know him, right? You're like, rise? And you're like, if he can do it. Not necessarily. No, I— Because you know him, right? You're like, if that guy—

Come on, I can do it if he can. Honestly, like, I was a pretty shy kid growing up, and I had no intention of performing in any way. Yeah. And when I came down to L.A. to go to school, I basically got forced into an acting class and where'd you go uh i was at usc and what were you studying there english i was studying psychology because when you don't know what you want to do you do psychology or communications

really and i was minoring in film and so psychology and film ended up being like a perfect combo for acting wow but in psychology, we had no intention of following through with it. You were just kind of interested? I guess. I mean, I've always been interested and I've always been

just very curious about people and that type of stuff. But I don't think I had anything in my mind about like going down that specific path. Yeah, exactly. All right.

So you take this acting class because you had to for the film minor? Or what? this was truly my brother's manager kind of like forcing me. Who was that? Who's your brother's manager?

This was an old manager. I'd rather not say his name because, yeah, things happen. But I remember auditing this class and seeing like. That's so funny. He saw it like, I can get both of these fuckers working. This kid looks good. This kid looks good. I got a little traction with the older Frank.

Oh, man. So I remember like the first people on stage, you know, they start crying and screaming and hitting each other. And I remember sitting back there and thinking, fuck this. You know, I want no part of this. But I stuck it out, I think just because I love, I've always loved movies. And I was just like, maybe this is a way into it all. Yeah. And I didn't like it for a long time just because I was so nervous.

I'd never done this before. But at that point, your brother had already done what? He had done, the major things were like, you know, Freaks and Geeks was the first big thing. So he was on that well into it by the time you're, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, you know, yeah, it took a long time for me to get comfortable. And I mean, I can say I really, really do love it now. But it was tough.

Yeah? It was tough, yeah. And how did you start? Well, you know, I believe there's a genetic component to, you know, being able to pop on screen. You do? I do, yeah. Don't you? I mean, yeah.

I know that, like, even with my big head and my smaller body, that I don, I don't necessarily radiate movie stardess. I disagree. Well, I appreciate that. But, but I think there are some people that like, how, how come there's so many bald ones that this is true.

I mean, it's like, I know it's really popular to do the Nepo baby trip or the family trip, but, but, but it's not a real thing that you can't just kind of grandfather someone in or get someone a job. Yeah.

They like, but all those bald ones, even the one that's like a preacher now, they all did okay on screen. They all looked correct. But no, I believe there is a component to the fact, obviously, there is a genetic component to the ability to act. I believe that. Yeah. I don't know if I have a ton to say on that, but it was interesting because obviously it was helpful in the sense that I had someone to turn to to answer any questions I had and all that.

Did he help you? Yeah. I mean, he answered stuff. You know, he had been through everything that I was going through. So you start getting sent out? How do you deal with the rejection as a shy guy? That's a great question um i think maybe because i you know what at the time i was still i was still going to school

yeah and i was going to acting class outside of school and i was auditioning what were you studying with um i was studying god it was on larchmont uh playhouse west okay and it was one of these things that where, even though I was killing myself, kind of like going back and forth between everything, I kind of had school as this safety net where I was like, all right, if things don't work with this other thing, I still got school.

And so I think that gave me a little bit of like a, I don't know, put me at ease a little bit. Oh, so you didn't, right. You weren't like, you know, oh, I'm all in. Yeah. I mean, I was, but I still had this other thing going. Right, right, right. You could, it was, but I still had this other thing going. Right, right, right. It enabled you, like in your mind, some relief.

Yes. From the panic. Yes. But then what happened is I had about, you know, I was a few months away from graduating school. And I got like my first big job that took me away. And so I actually had to drop out of school. And this job, it was in, God, what's the Canadian city? Vancouver?

No. Winnipeg? Yes. Winnipeg. Winnipeg. It was in Winnipeg during the winter. Oh. And we were staying on what was considered the windiest corner in all of Canada.

Yeah, it's like the windiest corner in the world. It's right in downtown Winnipeg. I know that place. And so we were doing this horror movie and it was this like- That's your first gig a horror movie. Kind of. You've done a lot of horror movies. I know.

I think I turned down a role in a horror movie you were in with Jamie Foxx. Oh, you turned that down? Yes. We would have had fun. I know. I think I was supposed to, I don't know if they were offering it to me, but was there a guy in the office, the main guy? Yes, I know the exact part.

Who played that guy? Eric Lang, who, did you see Escape at Dannemora? Yeah. He plays Patricia Arquette's husband. He's incredible in that show. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, no, yeah, he's good. Yeah.

That guy's good. He's really good. Yeah, he's been in a lot of things, right? Yeah, he's been popping up a bunch. All right, so. So, okay, so we're in Winnipeg. You're in Canada. Yeah, yeah, and it was this really physically demanding shoot where I, I like, you know, had bruises all over my whole body. I lost my voice a couple of times from screaming so much. I actually dislocated my shoulder. And so we had, I remember we had like two weeks left to go and I had the day off and the main girl, she comes to my hotel room. I was like, what are you doing here? You're supposed to be on set. And she's like, shit's going down.

So we find out that they didn't have any money left. And they hadn't been paying the crew for weeks. And so we all get sent home. Welcome to independent film show business. Yes. So we all get sent home. And we're waiting for that call for them to be like, you know, we spent millions of dollars. Let's finish these last two weeks.

And we never went back. And I was so heartbroken at the time. You know, this was the movie that I dropped out of school for. And in hindsight, it was probably for the best because it was a movie called Bad Meat, where the tagline was, it's the meat, it's bad. That's the tagline? Yes. Oh, my God. So I think I dodged a bullet on that one.

Never got finished. What's crazy is I think years later, they actually brought in an entirely new cast. To make Bad Meat? To fill in the blanks, and I think it's out there somewhere. It's called Bad Meat. Bad Meat. Okay, so then what happens next? I didn't go back to school.

It was tough because— You still haven't finished? I still haven't finished. Do you have dreams about that? You know what? I looked into it. I looked into night school. I looked into all that type of thing.

How many credits short are you? I mean, probably a few classes. But it was tough. They basically were like, you got to be here in person. And it's one of those things- At USC? Yeah. It's not far.

It's down the street. It's right there. One day. See what happens. Yeah. But then after that. Get that psychology degree and really start working. Exactly.

Really put that to use. So you get into what now? I'm trying to think. Like the next kind of like bigger significant thing, like the biggest thing at the time was I was a recurring on the final season of Scrubs, which. But didn't you have little parts in movies? Yeah, yeah. You know, I had a tiny part in Superbad.

Yeah. Which was, which was amazing, you know, it was one of those things. I think that was my first, first movie. And I have like two lines. I can't remember, you have lines? I have two lines in it. And my lines are Jonas says why don't you go

piss your pants again and I say that was eight years ago asshole and he says people don't forget and it was one of these things where that movie

didn't you play like a bully guy kind of yeah the movie was so popular that I remember people were recognizing me at the time

and I was like oh man I gotta work again quick so I'm not the guy who pissed his pants for the rest of his life. Yeah, yeah. You're not the two-line guy who pissed his pants. Yeah, but I'm telling you, people still bring that up.

Yeah. It just shows that movie. It's a favorite movie. It really is. It's a timeless movie for kids. But then you're doing small parts. So did you get that movie on the level? On the level?

Well, I mean, did you audition for that? Oh, yeah. All right. Oh, come on. I mean, no, I mean, did you audition for that? Oh, yeah. All right. Oh, come on. I mean, no. I mean, what are you doing? I mean, I just. No, I remember auditioning for two roles in that, both assholes, and they gave me one of them.

One asshole? Mm-hmm. But it says here, Milk, Telephone Tree No. 5. Oh, God. Nothing. That's nothing. I was part of a montage in that movie. It's like.

But did you have more to begin with? I mean, were you just cut? No. It was just kind of like, hey, do you want to be part of this montage of that movie. But did you have more to begin with? I mean, were you just cut? No. It was just kind of like, hey, do you want to be part of this montage of this Gus Van Sant movie? I was like, absolutely. Come on, I'm a young actor. Am I going to be on camera with Sean Penn? I was not. I was like part of like a one-sixteenth

of the screen where they split it up into a bunch of people on the phone. Yeah. But you're doing, what is this? So are you making movies yet? Are you doing short films or what are you doing? I'm not making movies, but what ended up happening was I was, you know, I was really happy to be working. I was happy to, uh, just on all these little things, you know, I was happy to be, just

get the experience. But it got to a point where with a lot of these jobs, I wasn't necessarily like proud of what I was doing and I didn't and I didn't love the final thing, but like I got to a point where I paired up with my buddy who I grew up with who's a director and we started making short films for Funny or Die, which was like this huge comedy site at the time. And we developed this great relationship with them

where they would basically give us a budget. Yeah. They would fill in the crew that we needed and they give, gave us full freedom to do whatever insane ideas we wanted. So like at the beginning? Yeah. And so like we, we did everything,

you know, we wrote them, edited them, directed, acted, and now it's kind of like my film school. So, oh really?

In terms of learning behind the camera, everything. And what was crazy is that that site was so popular at the time that if we had a video on there that happened to be successful, more people saw it than if I did an independent movie. It was crazy.

And you did a few independent movies, but were there videos that you did that really went viral and crazy? Yeah, they're all crazy. There was one I did called Go Fuck Yourself where it starts with me and a girlfriend having a fight, and right before she leaves, she says, why don't you go fuck yourself?

And then it cuts to me going into a bar, and I see another version of myself. And I pick him up, and we go on this date at the beach where I'm taking him out. How did you do the split screen thing? We brought in this amazing VFX artist. And that was the great thing about these videos is that like these really silly dumb jokes but we made them look really great and so it ends with like a hard cut

to me fucking myself but didn't you do you consider yourself a character actor? I don't think so I don't know i don't i haven't really thought about that yeah i mean because it's interesting i mean like you did you did get some big movies right i mean jump 22 jump street is big movie right yeah yeah yeah that was that

was kind of the 21 jump street was the biggest movie at the time that i'd done and i mean i i auditioned for that maybe seven times it was pretty grueling and actually the directors told me after the fact that part of the reason they finally gave me the role is because they saw one of these silly videos on Funny or Die. And they were like, oh, this guy understands comedy. That put him over the top? Yeah. But that was like, so did that put you on the map? Were you working more? Did you have a little more choice?

That was the one. Yeah. And then Scrubs, you were on for a while. Scrubs. So that was the final season. And it was interesting because it was technically like kind of a spinoff, you know, like most of the main cast had left and they brought in a lot of new people. And it was tough because like they had ended the show at season eight and they had one of like the best finales ever where like the final shots are literally behind the scenes shots of them all hugging and crying

and saying goodbye and it's like so heartfelt and then they're like we're doing another one and so it was tough but what I will say is like I had a great time

and it was one of those things where we're on a network show they gave us a ton of leeway we were improvising I was working with really nice funny people did it hold an audience? our season? Yeah.

Not necessarily. We didn't do one after it. But, you know, they figured, why not? Let's try to milk it. Let's try it. We've jumped the shark, but we'll just recast it. There you go. Yeah. Was it fun, though? It was fun. It was really fun. But how much TV did you really end up doing?

I popped in and out of a few things. I mean, we both did Swanberg's Easy. We did all and out of a few things. I mean, we both did Swamberg's Easy. We did all four seasons of Easy. Yeah. I did, too. Yeah. Like, I was, I think, right, no, I did three. Were there four?

I think there was three. Yeah, I think that's right. Did you have a good time? Yeah, man. I mean, like, I like that guy, the character, and Swamberg is, I don't know how he's doing. Do you talk to him? Yeah, every once in a while. Is he all right?

He seems to be good. He's one of the few guys that can sort of do that improvised movie thing. Lynn could do it too. That's right. But there's not many people that can direct like that. It's tough because sometimes it feels like chaos. It's chaos, but they know in their head when they've got what they need. Yes.

Which is a weird thing. They're watching and they're like, okay, that's what I need. Very specific skill set. It is, man, they're watching and they're like, okay, that's what I need. Very specific skill set. It is, man. And I thought that thing was great. But he didn't seem to give a fuck about promoting it. I wonder if it was more just that it was, like, it was so, such small budgets. It was so under the radar.

And it really felt like Netflix was just kind of like, because this is so low budget, just do your thing. Yeah, I know. But, like, I don't know that any of us, I know it's hard to promote stuff, but I didn't see any concern with promotion at all. Not on behalf of Netflix, but Joe was just sort of like, I can make my office a bar. Right. You're correct about that. He's like, this is great, man. It was a beautiful bar to his credit.

Yeah, man. It was great. And he started this sort of like art commune. I know. It's just like it's a performance space. We're going to – like he's like – at that time, like he's really in it for the art. Yeah. You know, for real. He's always been that way where he was going from job to job basically.

Did you know him earlier that, before Easy? Maybe in passing, just through friends. Oh, yeah. Well, yeah. He did a few movies. Yeah. That were kind of interesting. But really – but they were indie movies, but they were weird. Oh, yeah. You know, like they weren't like sort of like rom-coms. Nope. That were kind of interesting. But really, but they were indie movies, but they were weird.

Oh, yeah. You know, like they weren't like sort of like rom-coms. That's for sure. No, no, no. He did some movies where you're like, what the fuck is happening? I know. I mean, and that was his thing where he was like working with his friends and they were basically just trying to make enough money on each one to make another one. And they were just getting that experience under their belts.

Yeah. I thought Easy was great. Me too. And that was like the perfect thing for him. Like this was like all his skills like coming into the perfect project. Yeah, I thought Easy was great. Me too. And that was like the perfect thing for him. Like this was like all his skills like coming into the perfect project. Yeah, I thought I did my best work on that one with Melanie Linsky.

Yeah. Oh my God. Yeah, man. I don't even know how it happened. He creates a comfortable environment. He does. Yeah. And she was only there for one day.

Really? Yeah. Wow, yeah. It was just like, there's a moment there that we played that was just crazy. I believe

that she had just had the baby. I think, I think, right? But the character was not, you know, supposed to be.

Oh, oh, oh. And there, so it was one of those sort of like, oh, so you're, when are you expecting him? I'm not. She looks at me

and is like, I'm not. Yeah, yeah, that's always fun. It was great because it was just like the worst thing that could be said for those characters at that moment. Definitely. Tell me real quick, if you don't mind talking about it, what was it like having Lynn direct you? It was great.

I mean, you know, Lynn was kind of an actor's director. I mean, you know, Lynn was, you know, kind of an actor's director. I mean, she, you know, she was really kind of acutely sensitive to the humanity of any scene. Like, it was, there was something that she was looking for. And you can see it in her movies that she gets it. There's a depth to what she gets out of her performances. And also, I don't know, she was, she's one of those people that is not, she, she's, she's inter, you know, collaborative with actors. Like, oh, it seems as I, I've worked more, but not as much as most actors, but, and I

talk to directors, some directors are like, I hire them to do the job. I'm not there to teach them anything. I want them to figure it out. Yeah. Like I, that's why I hired them. But like, she would kind of like, you know, give suggestions, think things through, talk about, or ask you questions. Yeah, yeah. Was her style kind of different from Joe's, even though they both kind of had that very improvisational thing?

Well, yeah, Joe's a goofball. Sure. And Joe kind of is pushing you to, like Joe's a little, he's kind of a little bit of a dirty boy. Okay, yeah. In the sense that, like, he's mischievous. Yeah, definitely. And I don't think she was like that. Lynn was really sort of a joy spreader.

Joe was sort of like, I wonder if we could get this to me. Am I right? I think you're correct. Yeah. So they had different approaches, but they both knew intuitively. And they both like to be right there with the actors. And it shows, and it's why they always got amazing actors. Like I remember Joe shooting a lot of it.

Didn't he? He was holding the camera sometimes. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Yeah. I'm curious, is directing something that you ever think about? Recently I have been. Yeah?

I mean, I did a couple episodes of my show. Oh, sure, sure. But you're not really directing when you're in every scene, and you're on a no budget. But you're still kind of part of the whole process. Well, yeah, but you're sort of like, you're just like, the first one I directed, I don't even think we had a playback monitor,

because we have time. Right. So it's just sort of me going to the DP like, is it good? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you've been thinking more about it recently. Yeah, because I want to get involved with making this book a movie.

Oh, cool. But I'm willing to produce it and kind of try to pull it together. But part of me feels like, why not direct it? Yeah. You know? Definitely. I think you'd be amazing. Well, I mean, it's a little scary.

It's terrifying, man. But let me tell you so what for on the first one that i directed the rental yes uh i i was i was very scared going into it i had been wanting to direct for a long time but i was you know i'm scared of failure i was scared that there would be this spotlight on me where people would be like what aren't you scared about like uh you know do you know all the lenses and stuff okay that was what i was definitely scared about at first. But what you realize is if you get a good DP, you don't even know that shit.

I know, dude. I mean, but you say that out loud and people are like, well, you know, it's like true. You end up learning about it, but like you really can lean on it. From the DP. Yes. Because you're like, all right, we need a master and then we need coverage. Yeah. So are we going to do overs?

Are we doing French overs or over you talk through what you need in whatever language you say and they'll interpret it and they'll be like here's an option here's an option but like what i really learned was um when i stepped on set that first day i was like oh i know a lot more than i thought i did because i've been on these sets before it made me think about a lot of first-time directors where when they're stepping on set that's the first time on any set ever and so they're just learning like the dynamics of how things work but when you're director the one thing that you don't do i would imagine as an actor for your whole life is sit around going like what the fuck is taking so long sure like what the fuck is what are they

lighting that said there's always so much to do that it's just like right as a director but as a as a guy sitting in a trailer you're like how is it four hours yes yeah it's kind of nice actually you're the one causing less yeah yeah there's always something to do as a director sure um i didn't mean to interrupt you so you're you're on set and what you get on set but you got to be the leader i talked to i had lunch with beina oh cool the other day yeah and you know he's, it's really about just being decisive. Yeah, definitely. And like, you know, I've co-written both of these scripts and. The rental and the new one. Yes.

And because of that, I know these scripts and these characters inside and out, and I almost don't need to think about it. And so, like, I really have a best thing I did on each project was I really spent a long time, like, vetting the crew and the cast where I wanted, you know, three glowing reviews about each person before bringing them on the team. And because of that, the process, it took a while. You didn't want to hire any assholes? Absolutely. Wow. It was just as important. Like, obviously, I wanted people who were really talented. It was just as important to me, especially as a first timer, to have people who were nice and who were willing to work their asses off.

And, you know, at the end of the day, I'm looking around, I'm surrounded by all these amazing people. And not people who are looking at you as your first-time director going like, this guy. Exactly. And so, and it just makes for this really nice environment because, like, you know, I'm sure you've been on sets too where it's not that way. Oh, dude, when there's someone, like, wobblybly at the helm actors just are sort of like the fuck is happening who the fuck is this but not even at the helm like anywhere any position like the one bad seed can spread to the whole thing i know sets are weird man yeah they're weird yeah it can get pretty ugly yeah but i've been on i've been on i've been lucky not to be on too many bad ones

but i've been on enough where i'm just like, it doesn't need to be this way. And when I have some control, I'm going to make sure we have a great time too. Yeah. I don't think I've been on a bad set, but I have been on a set that was a little indecisive. Okay. Yeah. And especially where it's like, we, there were, it doesn't matter. Like with the cast, the size of glow, if somebody at the top, like is, is sort of like not sure what the scene is.

We're all kind of like, like hey there's like 20 of us and it's cold can we figure this out? I mean I definitely know what that feels like so but how do you get into what was the process of the rental? you were just like

that was I wrote the script with Joe Swamberg because of your relationship with him from Easy? Yeah, actually. Yeah, we both were kind of talking about horror movies and we're like, let's write one together. Yeah, we both liked the horror movies. Yeah, and he, you know, he lives in Chicago. And so he flew out to L.A. two different times for like a week at a time.

And we basically holed up in his hotel room and we kind of cranked out the first draft during that time. And then just kind of took it out to first draft during that time. And then, uh, just kind of took it out to independent financiers. And that was it. And once you got the money, you just, you know,

you hire the, he did, he, what did he learn from him in terms of production? Um, he, he, he wasn't there with us, but what I love about Joe is he's,

he's not precious about anything. He has no ego. He's just very much like so collaborative and such an idea guy. But who'd you bring in like, you know, like it's your first time so like who'd you bring in for, you know,

to pull the crew together and everything? That was me, man. Yeah? Yeah, yeah. I was, you know, I reached out to all the main actors myself.

This was before we even took it out to sell it. It was kind of a naive thing to do but I was like, these are the people I want for the roles. I'm gonna, I don't know most of them, but I'm going to find their emails.

I'm going to reach out and tell them how much I love them and send them the script and hope they like it. And so we actually had the whole cast attached before we took it out. Yeah. And, uh, you know, when we were, I remember when we were taking it out, there was, there was a good amount of interest, but a lot of these places, they wanted me to kind of push it more down the middle and give us stuff that we've seen a million times before where they wanted more jump scares and more whatever. And then we finally- Is there a jump scare count when people are assessing whether to make a horror movie? But that's a discussion that's had?

Yeah, definitely. We're about three jump scares short on this. Truly. And so I finally talked to Black Bear who, um, who financed it and they, they were just finally asking the right questions and they knew what we were trying to do. And then what do they have somebody around? Yeah, definitely. Definitely.

But they, they truly, they were, they were so hands off and they, they, I've been so lucky that on, on both movies that they've really leaned on us and and i walk away and it's like yes of course i hope i hope people love these movies as much as we do but at the end of the day it's like we we made the movies that we set out to make and i i gotta be you know content with that right and and in between the two you did the disaster artist, that came before both. Oh, really? Yeah. Now, whose idea was that? I wonder. I don't know who initially had the idea, but someone optioned the book The Disaster Artist. And the book, the tone of the movie came from the book.

Yeah. Like, I think. The book was written by your character. Yes. Right. And I think everyone expected us to make like the big broad comedy version of that movie you know where we were making fun of the room right and making fun of tommy wiseau and we really leaned on the book where the book is really just this earnest story

about these bizarre characters who are trying to make a movie and it's it's one of these things where um a lot of people you know the character i play greg s of these things where a lot of people, you know, the character I play, Greg Sestero, I think a lot of people were like, why did you stick around with this guy, this guy Tommy Wiseau?

Why did you believe in this project? What kept you around? And I think it's this mindset where like as a young actor, you just happen to be working. Well, that's what people don't understand

the desperation in Hollywood. Yes. Like the nature of this place. Oh, man. And it's like whatever you're doing, you convince yourself this could be great. Well, that's what people don't understand the desperation in Hollywood. Yes. And like the nature of this place. Oh man. And it's like, whatever you're doing, you convince yourself this could be great. Of course. And there are people out here that don't, there's still people out here that come out here thinking they're going to be discovered.

Right. And there is a level of strange delusion that we all have to have a bit of in order to keep going within it. Yeah. But a lot of times that can just, you know, grow, especially when you're involved in something. I can't like coming up in this business with comedy and like being young in this business and just hearing guys sort of like, yeah, we're shooting this thing, man. It's amazing.

And then you're like, oh, this is not good. I know it's, it's tough. It's like you kill yourself, you kill yourself. You finally get this thing, you work your ass off and it comes out and everyone shits on it. It's tough. Yeah. Well, I mean, right. But, you know, but how what was your brother's relationship with him and what was your relationship with Tommy? I mean, because like the guy's like, you know, he's it's to be to say he's odd is being diplomatic. He's a little problematic in that he's delusional. Right. It's, it's, um, we, we really, we've gone through a journey with Tommy. Like we really grew

to love him. Uh, but didn't you feel like at some point, cause I was like watching the movie and I thought you were, you, you both handled it very well and you, you handled it with, uh, humility, but it's hard not to think on some level you're busting the guy's balls. uh, humility, but it's hard not to think on some level you're busting the guy's balls. Yes. And no, I mean,

we, we definitely like showed all the warts for sure. We didn't hold back and we, we showed how crazy it got, but I think I just go back to what I was saying before, where it's a guy at the, at the heart of it. It's this guy who has a dream and he,

and he's going, he's going after it. And he actually has the means to do exactly what he wants and no one's going to tell him anything. I just saw when he came up at the, what was it? The Oscars or where was it? Where you were on? That was the Golden Globes. I was sort of like, oh, he thinks this is it, man. I know. I mean, it's incredible that he ended up on that stage after all this stuff. Yeah. Nobody really wanted to talk. Of course. And you guys were like, okay, okay. I mean, who knew what was going to come out of his mouth?

But it's funny, just a quick story. When we finished the movie, we told him, we're like, all right, Tommy, how do you want to see this for the first time? Do you want us to send you a link? Do you want us to set up a private screening? And he was like, no, I want to see it at the premiere at South by Southwest with a thousand people in the audience. And we were like, are you sure? And he's like, yes. So we were like, okay, we made this movie in a way where he really should like it.

You know, we really show a lot of empathy for him, but you never know. You make a movie about someone's life. They're going to be sensitive to certain details. So it's this packed theater and him and Greg Sestero are sitting down the aisle from us. Did you talk you did you talk to greg a lot yeah yeah yeah and he was on set every day and he was yeah he was amazing he was like not the type at all to be like oh i would never say something like that or i would never do you guys were doing definitely definitely yeah he felt okay he was he was so supportive yeah so okay so we're at the premiere they're sitting the aisle. The movie's playing and it's playing really well. The audience is really into it.

Yeah. And we're kind of like leaning forward and like checking in what Tommy's feeling. Yeah. And he's wearing sunglasses and he has a stone face and we're like, who knows? Who knows? So it plays great. We go backstage. We're about to go out to do a Q&A and we go up to Tommy.

We're like, what'd you think, man? And he goes, I approve 99.9%. And we're like, amazing. And we're like, what's the 0.1%? And, again, you think he's going to be like, oh, that didn't happen like that. And he goes, I think you should look at the lighting in the first half of the movie. And what we realized was he was wearing sunglasses the whole movie. So, yeah, the lighting's going to look a little off.

But no, he ended up being like a huge supporter, which is like really important with that type of thing. You don't want the subject of your movie to like, you know, naysay the whole project. Especially when, you know, you don't know what his mental disposition really is. But maybe you do. Maybe you know exactly who that guy is. Maybe. I think you do. Yeah. Yeah. What you think is, but maybe you do. Maybe, maybe, you know, exactly who that guy is. Maybe. I think you do. Yeah.

Yeah. What you think is kind of it. Yeah. Yeah. Like it was the best thing that could have happened to him. It really was. You made that movie. He was having a great time, man.

I mean, it was beautiful in a way because like, like, you know, when we were standing on stage at South by Southwest after that screening, Tommy comes out, he's got a thousand people giving him a standing ovation, like an earnest standing ovation. Like that must have been. I think you guys played those guys with a lot of heart, you know? Yeah, we tried to. And like working with your brother, did that dynamic, did you feel a dynamic? Definitely.

Yeah, yeah. Because you were definitely a younger brother character. Oh yeah. And I think, I think it really worked because it's like you know i'm playing this guy who uh you gotta see through my character's eyes you have to see tommy's humanity you gotta see some sort of heart in there and i think you know i think subconsciously there just is that thing between me and my brother where i love him and i think that shows a little bit sure well yeah you would hope yeah but so the rental did well. Yeah,

it was great, man. I mean, it was a bizarre, it was a bizarre scenario because we came out at the very beginning of the pandemic. I mean, we were going to, you know, we were about to do the festival tour and all of that. And then the world shut down and we paired up with IFC to distribute the movie who's like a great independent financer and, or distributor. And, uh, they told us, they were like, Hey, we think there's power in choosing a date, a release date and sticking to it no matter what. And why that was so great is because if you remember at the time, all these movies kept moving their release date because they thought the pandemic would eventually be over. And so what happened is like when we came out, there was no other competition. Right.

And so we. Where'd you come out? We came out in a bunch of drive-in theaters and we were number one. We were the number one movie for two straight weeks. And we were the second movie ever to be number one in theaters and streaming at the same time. And like, obviously there's an asterisk next to that. Sure.

Yeah. But like, it was, it was pretty wonderful um wow yeah that's that really worked out in a way huh yeah and this movie yeah somebody i used to know was something that you and allison decided to just write yeah so this well we started writing this at the very, very beginning of the pandemic. And at the time, you know, the, the movies that we were watching were all these, you know,

very positive, optimistic movies. It was all we could stomach, you know? Oh really? Yeah. That's cute. And so we were like,

let's do one, let's do our own version. Let's put some like positivity out in the world. And we both love the genre. And, uh, I remember we were walking, let's do one. Let's do our own version. Let's put some like positivity out in the world. And we both love the genre. And I remember we were walking, walking around my hometown and came up with the idea, which is essentially about kind of going to your hometown and reconnecting with your roots. But it's funny because, you know, you kind of subvert the genre. Yeah, that's what we're trying to do. Yes, where it's like on paper, the concept maybe feels familiar.

You know, it's a different journey for your lead heartbroken person. Yes. I'm so happy you say that because it's like, I think a lot of people are like, oh, I know where this is going. But what I've done on both movies that I've directed is, is like you, you think, you know, yeah, yes. You think this is a familiar concept. For a little while, but you don't like at some point because of like because of, like, and I know Allison, you know, playing selfish.

Sure. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've seen it. Yes, yes. The sweet, selfish person. Oh, yeah. I saw it for three years.

Absolutely. But you do, like, I think the thing is, is, like, everybody is a little flawed, right? Yes, that's exactly right. Right. the thing is, is like everybody is a little flawed, right? So that's exactly right.

Right. So you're not sure who you're rooting for. So it kind of, it, it, it makes the expectations peculiar. Yes. Yes. You don't know where it's going,

where like the, hopefully the, the unique part about it is like in the execution where every twist and turn, the characters themselves, the, the music choices, the score, everything hopefully is like, you know, we're, we're essentially using what we know and love about the genre music choices the score everything hopefully yeah is like you know

we're essentially using what we know and love about the genre to take the audience down a certain path and then you know try to rip the rug out from under them so how long did it take to really kind of polish it off and was it was it always did you conceive of it to be so inclusive what do you mean by that well i just I just mean that, you know, you have representation. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Of LGBTQ stuff, of, you know, diversity in casting. Yeah, yeah. Like, which is also, and you, you know, there was points where I'm like, are they just not even going to mention it? Right, right, which.

Like, I don't even know what Danny Pudi was. Right. Was he a brother? He was a friend. Oh, just a friend. Good friend. Who lived at the house? No, he was just always around.

Oh, okay. We talk about how he's codependent. Because I was like, is that the other brother? No, he's codependent with the main character. It's so funny to see those two work together because they know each other. Allison and Danny? Yeah, yeah. It's incredible.

It's like you sit back and you're like, oh, you can't fake this chemistry. Yeah, well, it's well-worn. Yes, yes. No, I mean, oh, you can't fake this chemistry. Yeah, well, it's well-worn. Yes, yes. No, I mean, I'm really happy you say all this. It was one of those things where we were definitely mindful of it, but at the end of the day, it was like the people we wanted for these roles, just all those actors who ended up in the movie, they were perfect. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, for sure. But I mean, it was just sort of like, where'd you shoot it? Oregon? We shot it, yeah, mostly around Portland, Oregon. And then the little Bavarian town where it takes place is this town called Leavenworth, which is in Washington State. And we went there for the final few days.

Why'd you choose there to shoot? Oregon. Oregon. So I shot actually both my movies in Oregon. Because of what? Because it was cheap or cheaper? It has a little bit of a tax incentive, but it was more that it was just the landscape it's so pretty i love it yeah and the crew's incredible just like a bunch of really hard-working nice people um and then like leavenworth

the bavarian town my friend her her family lives there and i remember going there for um her sister's wedding yeah and i was like what the fuck is this place? And it just felt like the perfect setting where you can imagine people growing up there and almost taking it for granted and being like, oh, this is a small town.

It's the middle of nowhere. I got to get out of here. And then they grow up and they look back and they're just like, oh man, like that was a pretty special place to grow up,

which kind of like ties into the themes of the movie. Well, yeah. Well, it's important. I didn't notice, like I knew the houses seemed like that, but kind of like ties into the themes of the movie. Well, yeah. Portland, I didn't notice, like I knew the houses seemed like that, but you didn't really do the city much. No, it was actually like every day

it was like driving 30, 40 minutes outside the city to get into nature. Yeah, yeah. It was definitely pretty. And there's a lot of little parts where people show up, you know, like Amy Sedaris. Oh, yeah.

It's nice to see her. God, I love Amy. She's so funny. And Hallie Jo, Joel. Haley Joel Osment. Haley Joel Osment. Isn't he funny God, I love Amy. She's so funny. And Haley Joel Osment. Haley Joel Osment. Isn't he funny? I fucking love him. He was very funny.

Now, did you tell him to go that? I mean, that was a part, like, on the page, like, I guess kind of the most comedic role. But in the wrong hands, you can imagine someone, like, really, like, leaning too hard into the joke or, like, trying too hard to be funny. And we really wanted someone who was just like,

not only naturally funny, but just like a great actor who could kind of inhabit that role and just be that kind of naive, you know, guy in the clouds. Excited guy. Yeah. Yeah.

And I thought everybody did a good job. Sam Richardson. Yeah. For a minute. Oh yeah. Funny. He's in there for a minute. Yeah.

And that, and that, and that whole conceit of the reality show I thought was pretty funny. Thanks man. Um, but like to tell you the truth, it was great seeing Julie Haggerty again. Oh, man. Isn't she incredible?

What the fuck? I haven't seen her in so long, but she's so great. She is so great. We all fell in love with Julie. And she— How did that casting happen? Has she been working a lot? She pops up.

She pops up. But, like, again again it was more like i think a lot of people uh when they're casting it's it's they they really look at just all the shiny objects that are in front of their face like who's hot in this current moment that's a generational thing you know you get when i i've casted people of her age both men and women yeah and you kind of get this breakdown of you know from the casting agent you see who's's available and you're like, I remember her. Oh, and I remember that guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You can just get these people?

Yeah. And you can. I know, I know. But Julie, she is so inherently just kind and warm and just like has, she has a different energy to her.

Yeah, specifically herself. And we just, I remember her from like Airplane. Yes. And like from comedies when I was a kid. It was very specific energy. Yeah.

But isn't she so grounded in greatness? Yeah. Well, now it's like you see the earnest part of whatever that weird comedic energy was. Yes. From back in the day. Oh, yeah. And now she's just this, you know, truly authentic, quirky lady. I know.

And we. Sweet. She was only on set for three days. But like me and Allison, like she was our mom. We absolutely love her. And where. Sweet. She was only on set for three days, but me and Allison, she was our mom. We absolutely love her. And how did you get the, who were the other people? Who played his mother? His mother.

Joe. Oh, Olga Meredith. She's known for In the Heights. Okay. And she, it's another one of those roles where there's not a ton to do on the page, but she has such a specific energy and just like excitement that she really pops and makes these moments just feel very unique and special. Yeah. And, um, yeah.

And Allison, she likes being a dick. She's, well, she's so good at, at toeing the line where like, even when she's doing things that are not necessarily morally sound like she rationalizes justifies yeah and she's still human and you can relate to why she's doing these things and that's kind of like going back to what you were saying where you know i don't think there's any villains in the movie but everyone is flawed and everyone you know some people are making you know questionable choices but at the end of the day they're all good people they're just going through it they're trying to figure it out yeah yeah and it ends up in a nice weird place yeah exactly a nice weird unexpected place well good job buddy so thanks man and so now it's all about

this movie for a little while yeah we're about this is the first day of our kind of press tour and so we're gonna go travel around travel around with it for a little bit. In movie theaters? No. This is Amazon going on Amazon February 10th. It was always the deal. Yeah. And these kind of

people like romantic comedy. I think so. We love them. Yeah? Yeah. How do you feel about romantic comedies in general? Well, name a few.

I mean, the classics are When Harry Met Sally, Sleepless in Seattle, Pretty Woman. Yeah. How do you feel about those? They're fine.

Yeah, okay. No, I mean, I like them. But I think what's interesting is, like, you know, initially I'm watching this, and I'm thinking, like, well, this is just sort of, like, you know, it's entertainment, and, you know, it doesn't have to be too heavy and whatever. Sure, sure. But then, like, it sort of unfolds, sort of like, well, this is kind of heavy. Yeah, that's what we tried to do. I'm so happy you're saying all these things, because, like, it's one of these things where I hope the movie does go a little deeper

than people expect. Well, it's just sort of like, you know, because it does unfold in a way that you can't anticipate. Yes. In terms of the character.

Yes. The story is what it is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, you can kind of maybe, you don't know exactly

how it's going to end, but you do know one thing. You have a general roadmap, but like, it's going to surprise you along the way. Right, but it's going to surprise you along the way. Right, but it's really more about learning more about the people. That's true.

That becomes sort of the weird thing. That's true. Specifically, the groom and the fiance and Allison and then just the fiance's parents. Yeah. Just all these stuff that sort of unfold that really kind of add more depth than I think regular romantic comedies, unless I'm not remembering properly. No, I appreciate you saying that. Let me name a couple of recent ones to see if you've seen them. The really great ones are like Palm Springs.

Did you see that? What about The Big Sick? That was Kumail's movie? Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, that was a true story. And that was, well, that was heavy. But it didn't register to me as being specifically a romantic comedy. That's fair.

Because I knew it happened. Ah, ah, ah. Okay. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like it wasn't, you couldn't contrive that really. Yes. It's more of a biopic in a way.

Well, yeah. I mean, it kind of came together as a romantic comedy. Yeah, I guess that's true. There was all that sort of cross-cultural stuff. Yeah, it's a good one. It's a really good one. Yeah, yeah, I mean, it kind of came together as a romantic comedy. Yeah, I guess that's true. There was all that sort of cross-cultural stuff. Yeah, it's a good one. It's a really good one. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

What about, this is like a slightly different type, but like, did you see Enough Said with Julia Louis-Dreyfus and Gandalfini? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's a great one. That is a great one. Yeah, I could see this more in the way of that. Yeah. I guess like, maybe I'm not remembering, I guess Pretty Woman was, you know, she was the hooker. Yeah, that's true. maybe I'm not remembering, I guess Pretty Woman was,

you know, she was the hooker. Yeah, that's true. So like, it's, it's a great movie. You should revisit it,

man. No, no, I don't, I thought it was a good movie. And in, in Harry Met Sally, that was sort of a rekindled thing,

or I can't remember how that was. That was them, that was kind of them over the years, their friendship kind of building. to them, finally them doing that. Yes. And then what was the other one you mentioned?

Sleepless in Seattle. That was like the online thing. That was, she heard him over the radio. Yeah. And then goes to kind of find him. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. But isn't there a period there where they didn't know they were talking to each other?

That's You've Got Mail. Oh, You've Got Mail. Yes. Yes. Also Tom Hanks. That was a different one. Different one. Sleepless in Seattle.

Who's in that? Tom Hanks, baby. The both of them. Oh, yeah. And Meg Ryan. Both of them. Oh, yeah. And Meg Ryan. Both of them? Oh, yes. And she was in When Harry Met Sally, right?

Yeah. Oh, yeah. She was the one. She was the one, man. Yeah. Yeah. No, I guess you're right. I guess I'm forgetting that these are not necessarily simple, and there is always this.

No, there's great ones, man. You should revisit some of these. Deeply kind of difficult and sad and flawed people. It's a good genre. You should give it another chance. Do I have to write one now? Do I have to be in one? Give it a shot, man.

Do I get another cranky dad pitch? No way. I'm going to write one for you where you're a very joyous man. Oh, good. Thanks, Dave. Good talking to you, man. You too, dude. Okay. Dave Franco, somebody I used to know, comes out February 10th on Prime Video.

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and ACAS Creative. Wrestling with Mark wraps up next week. For Full Marin listeners, this week we've got my talk with AEW owner Tony Khan, who told me why someone would want to start

a major professional wrestling league from scratch. For example, like a challenger brand, a good example, you know, Pepsi is the new generation. Pepsi is a challenger brand like AEW. And when I launched this, I was like, okay, I'd like to be the Pepsi of pro wrestling. Would you be interested in that? Everyone said yes. Then they showed me a marketing deck about what it means to be a challenger brand.

And the best examples they gave me were like Burger King. What's their marketing? A lot of it is like, hey, McDonald's sucks, guys. So that's when people ask why I go out and talk about the competition and wrestling. I mean, that's why, because it was handed down on high to me from the network. To hear our Wrestling with Mark series, plus all our weekly bonus content and every episode of WTF ad-free, sign up for the full Marin. Plus all our weekly bonus content and every episode of WTF ad free sign up for the full Marin.

Just click on the link in the episode description or go to WTF pod.com and click on WTF plus. Okay. Okay. You hear me? All right. On Monday, I talked with Wayne Brady, which was pretty intense. You know, I don't know what your thoughts on Wayne Brady are, and I've had mine, but to really sit down and talk with the guy and what he's gone through because of some of your thoughts about Wayne Brady,

it was a little bit devastating. It's a great episode. So I'll talk to you then. Here's some guitar. It's a great episode. So I'll talk to you then. Here's some guitar. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Boomer lives. Monkey and Lafonda, cat angels everywhere. All right. Okay.

Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay.