WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1414 - Hong Chau

Episode Date: March 2, 2023

Hong Chau owes her acting career to social anxiety and a fear of performing in public. It was the desire to overcome those obstacles that led her to improv and acting classes. Hong and Marc talk about the dangerous journey her family undertook to get from Vietnam to America, her upbringing in New Orleans, the controversy around her performance in Downsizing, and her Oscar nominated performance in The Whale. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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and ACAS Creative. Lock the gates! Alright, let's do this. How are you, what the fuckers? What the fuck buddies? What the fuck nicks? How's it going? What's happening?

We're not going to live forever. God damn what's happening we're not gonna live forever god damn it we're not gonna live forever i who would want to live forever it seems tiring exhausting i'll talk more about me in a second i do want to take a second to say that hong chow uh is on the show now she's an actress she's's our final Oscar nominee prior to the awards being given out on March 12th. She's nominated for best supporting actress for The Whale. She's also been in Heron Vice, downsizing the Watchmen series, Homecoming, and The Menu. And I think someone has been pestering me saying, a couple of people were saying, did I see driveways? I did not, but I've seen a couple of these and I enjoy talking to her. Uh, it was a different kind of conversation. I'm not sure I've ever spoken to someone who was on a boat in her mother's stomach being shot at

as they escaped Vietnam and her father was shot and survived. This is a first for that type of interview. Also, I've been going to the gym a lot. Usually I used to hike up the mountain, but I don't even know what's left of that trail at this point. This raining has been amazing. No complaining about the raining, Los Angeles. I've had to shut some fucking people down, man.

People are like, all right, this rain. I've had to shut some fucking people down, man. People are like, all right, this rain. I'm like, yep. It's amazing. Better than fire. Shut up. Better than fire. Keep your, your hole shut. Stop complaining. The reservoirs are up. I can't do my, my drought chunk anymore. Like, and then there's, you know, of course, scientists are like, well, you know, anymore. And then there's, you know, of course, scientists are like, well, you know, take it easy. We're not out of the woods, but reservoirs, I don't know about Lake Mead. You know, I haven't heard about anything turning up there lately, but a couple of the other ones are doing pretty well, which is good news. Makes me less freaked out for a little while, but I've been going to the gym because it's been raining and it's, I'd forgotten what gym culture is like, not just so much culture, but just by going every day. You don't know anybody at the gym, but you see them every day that you go, a lot of them,

the trainers, the people who are regulars. And I know very few people and I spent a lot of time in the treadmill, but so I'm at the gym every day. I'm on the treadmill and I'm looking out over the expanse of the gym and, um, and you just see these people every day and all you can do is just sort of look at them and speculate. I don't know what other people do. I mean, I'm listening to music. I'm minding my own business, but you're looking at these people, you're watching them work out. You're seeing what they wear every day. You're wondering about their lives. And I, I'm not in a fancy area. There's no big, uh, it's not like a, a scene. I mean, you know, some people dress up and you, you start to notice like, oh, there's that lady again. Here's the weirdest thing is the gym manager. And it's not bad, but I mean, I think the woman who runs the gym is always

walking around in literally six inch heels, which is, I don't know. I'm not saying it's distracting. It's just odd gym attire. I'm not complaining, but I'm like, does she work out here? Or is this like, does she, I don't know, literally six inch heels of different kinds. And I noticed that not in a fetishy way or not in a pervy way. I'm just noticing things. I'm noticing certain trainers. I noticed when they get haircuts and you start to wonder about people's lives and you kind of speculate about people's lives. And, you know, you see that people there and you're like, wow, this guy, he's working hard.

I hope he, I hope he is able to, to get rid of some of that. Or, you know, oh, this lady is like, she must be a professional athlete of some kind. Or, oh, this guy with that, you know, after a certain age, you shouldn't really be growing those kinds of beards. You know what I mean? It's like, you can't braid your beard in your fifties, or maybe that's the only time you can braid them. Nonetheless, I just sit around making up lives or wondering what people are like without ever talking to them. And you're seeing them working out fairly vulnerable. If you, you know, if you, you got to be careful though, when you're at the gym that you're not just like locked in on one or two people. And then when they look over, even for a second, you're like, you have to look away because you've been busy building a life for them in your head. And oddly, there's no real celebrity presence at my gym. That's not odd. You know, I don't live in that part of town,

but Bobby Cannavale works out at my gym. And so like, you know, one day I'm just sitting there looking at people and I'm like, holy shit, I bet you that guy has been in some pretty big movies. I bet you that guy has worked with Robert De Niro. That's what I think that guy did. He's one of those guys. Hey, there he is. What are you doing?

How you doing? You all right? You know, it's like talking to Bobby Cannavale is like taking a trip to New York. So I always enjoy seeing him at the gym because that means I can go to New York for 10 minutes. We've had conversations. Again, this is not name dropping. Look, I also see my realtor at the gym, the guy who sold me this house, Chris. He's one of the guys that said like this weather. And I'm like, no, no, I'm not going to do this weather with you. We should be nothing but grateful that it's fucking raining. Nothing but grateful.

Okay. So Hang Xiao is here. As I said before, final Oscar nominee that we're talking to. She's nominated for best supporting actress at the Oscars for her performance in The Whale. And I had a nice conversation with her. It's hockey season, and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So, no, you can't get an ice rink on Uber Eats.

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japan alive fx's shogun a new original series streaming February 27th exclusively on Disney Plus. 18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. I saw a coming attraction for this Kelly Reichardt movie and it sort of changed my life. Oh. Just the trailer. Oh, good. Like, I don't know if I really sort of identified her as the auteur that she is. Like, I'd seen a couple of the movies, like, years ago. But there's something about the trailer.

I haven't seen the movie yet, and it's killing me because I want it. And I want to see it. And I want to talk to her. But just the trailer, it nailed something so specific that I was like oh my god who the fuck is this who's this director and i watched all of her movies in like a week yeah and i and i'd seen and that's a bleak week but i'd seen oh okay kind of i mean you know like you're not gonna walk away from wendy and lucy feeling good that, like you're not going to walk away from Wendy and Lucy feeling good. That's true. You're not going to walk away from first cow, you know, like, you know, with a happy feeling.

Well, I don't know. I laughed during first cow. Of course. Yeah. There's funny in all of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But the strain of the relationship and then the knowledge. So working with her, what do you play uh i play a

character named joe who's a a friend and sort of competing artist what kind of what what's your medium um i do large installation art now and and because see look i dated a painter for years so there what struck me about it and i don't know the movie, but I'm excited about it, is that there's a self-importance to a level of artist that is necessary in order for them to go on believing. Yeah. And I thought that just in the trailer, I'm like, oh, my God, she nailed that. And there's something painfully hilarious about it. Mm-hmm. Right?

I think you're going to love showing up, Mark. I think this is... This is my movie? It's your movie. And were you aware of that when you were doing it? No, I actually don't know a lot about... There were a couple of things in the script that I had to have explained to me.

I shadowed Michelle Segre. That's the artist whose work I pretend is mine in the movie and there were some little things in there that were so specific to artists coming up and what was important to them that I wasn't aware of and I had to have it explained to me

and I thought oh okay so in those instances I tried to find what the equivalent would be with acting. Oh, yeah. And what'd you find? I get it. All of those little small milestones that mean nothing to other people, but it's such a big deal when you're coming up and you're just trying to collect those little badges and stickers. Yeah. And yeah, you can really get worked up about that stuff.

So you had to put all that in place for an installation artist. Mm-hmm. Who does these. Because my ex did stuff like that. She does on-site art. Oh. But she's also a painter. But I remember those things.

And those are those weird things that they only happen. They happen in order to get photo documentation or else they don't exist in the world, right? Yeah. Yeah. It's really strange. Something that Michelle Segre pointed out was how much Instagram has changed things for artists in terms of because self-promotion is so important now to your own survival. And it sort of affects how she thinks about her art because she can already start picturing how it's going to look on Instagram. Right. Wow.

And she hates that she starts thinking that way about it. Right. Yeah. But, you know, I think that's a problem for us all. It is, right? I mean, I don't, I think I'm like starting to get old enough to not give a shit about certain things. Or you reach, not just age, but you reach a certain level of comfort in your career where you feel like. I guess so. But even with that, there's always that horrible part of you that wants more.

No? Yeah. I mean, hopefully you kill that side of you. Right. But it's a slow death for me, I think. It's not happening overnight. But like, yeah, they have that. But when you were researching this thing, like what were the analogies that you found in your own career as these points of like, what do you remember about the first thing that gave you the idea that you were going in the right direction? That I was going in the right direction.

Or the first reward, the first piece. Was it, like, a commercial? Was it, like, how, I don't know, how you judge your acting career. Honestly, for me, I think it was a play that I did called John. Actually, it's the only play I've done. But I was sort of ready to give up on film and TV. When was this? I had done Inherent Vice and Treme.

Oh, okay. And I had done a couple of TV shows, you know, so I had a little bit. Is that Annie Baker? Yeah, Annie Baker's play. Did you do that in New York? In New York, yeah. Did I see you in that? I don't know.

Did you? I don't know. You tell me. What's that one about? It's about a couple who go to a bed and breakfast in... Oh, my God. Were you in the original cast? Yeah.

Oh, my God. That was great. original cast? Yeah. Oh my God. That was great. Thank you. Yeah, I agree. I agree with you. She's a trip, man. Annie? Yeah.

But you felt after that you weren't sure? No, it was that experience that made me, that revived my interest and joy in in in acting and and the arts in general i you know because when you you do like pilot auditions or whatever what is that like you know what that is no no but i mean like you you think that like what am i doing uh yeah how do you like what am i doing this is so dumb i don't even want to be here i don't i don't even enjoy this i don't i don't actually want this job. Right.

Because you read those lines and you're like, this is what has to come out of my mouth? Yeah. Like, I've worked hard to develop a craft or my own personality and I got to say this? Yeah. To get this job? Yeah. Yeah, it's a terrible feeling. It's humiliating.

Yeah, it is. It is. It's humiliating. Yeah, it is. It is. But you're trained to think like, oh, you should want to be on a TV show. Right. Saying horrible, dumb things. Some sort of sitcom.

Yeah. Did you do some of that kind of work? I did a couple of little small parts on TV shows. Yeah. And it wasn't satisfying. And then I thought, I feel like I've just sort of given my whole life over to this or the pursuit of this. And I don't really know what. Yeah, exactly. I don't know what it is that I'm doing.

Did I want a job? Yeah. Is this a job? I feel like I can go get a better job than this. Yeah, exactly. But like, well, that's interesting because I've been talking about theater lately. Because I don't think, I haven't done theater since like college. Oh.

And like, you know, I'm no genius actor. But the one thing I know about doing, you know, stand-up, but the idea of theater where you have this continuity, where once you get on stage, you're going to go all the way through. Yes. And you got to stay in it and engage with that. That's got to be great. It is. It's terrifying too.

Yeah. But do you feel that when you do stand-up? No. You don't? No, I don't have any fear anymore. Oh. Nothing makes you fearful now in terms of performing? Stand-up?

Stand-up, acting, anything. Not really. With stand-up, sometimes following somebody else, like if I'm out on a club where it's just one after the other kind of thing, everyone's doing the same time. It's not a fear thing, but if somebody just kills before me, I'm like, fuck, now I'm going to have to go reset them, upset them for 30 seconds. them and upset them for 30 seconds. But fear, no, like if I get fear, it's when I have to do stand up for a reason that's compromising somehow. Like, you know, if I'm part of an award show or something, that makes me nervous because it's not just me going out there and riffing or doing what I'm going to do. But like I did Fallon last week and I was excited. I mean, I was like, if I have the stuff, he's a good audience. Do you know,

like he's out of all of them, he's the guy that's going to be like, come on, do it. Make me laugh, make my job easier. But when did you like, because I know you've been around for a while, but where'd you come from? Where did I come from? Well, I grew up in Louisiana, mostly in New Orleans. Really? Yeah. Your early life was there? Well-

I'm not completely stupid. I did some reading, but yeah. Well, my parents, I'm Vietnamese. Yeah. My parents left Vietnam by boat in 79. With the whole- The boat people. They were one of the boat people?

They were one of the boat people, yeah. Really? They snuck out during the middle of the night. So that was after... So why... I know, people are so confused. They're like, but the war ended in 75 and why are they still sneaking around in 79?

Because of the government, the communists. You know, just because you say that the war is over doesn't mean that it's over for the people who live there. Yeah, because the people that we were fighting for lost. Yeah. So, you know, people were still, I guess, getting harassed. And just, it was just tough for people who weren't on the right side of things. So my parents left and my older brother was five at the time. My mom was six months pregnant with me.

On the boat? On the boat, yeah. And what was the escape like? Did you hear the story? Oh, yeah. This is like one of those stories that I hear over and over and over again. It's a pretty crazy story. What?

My dad was shot as they were leaving, like about an inch away from his heart. Come on. Yeah, he was holding my brother. He had just passed my brother to my mom to get on the boat. And like the guards who were, you know, watching the docks shot him. And he still got on the boat. He was bleeding on the boat for three days. And they got robbed by pirates twice.

Really? Yeah, yeah. And, you know, picturing a woman pregnant, six months pregnant with a five-year-old child and her husband's lying there bleeding for three days. From a chest wound? From a chest wound, yeah. Not just sort of like it went in and out kind of thing.

Yeah, yeah. How did he not bleed out? You don't know. He's a tough motherfucker, motherfucker. Is he still around? He is. He is. Yeah. He still had the bullet too. It was pretty long when I remember him showing it to me. Oh, he's got the souvenir? Yeah. A little starburst scar on his chest too. No kidding. So they're on the boat and pirates robbed them? Yeah, because they, you know,

people knew that there were all of these people escaping. So they were looking for them. And they had all of their belongings and money with them. So they knew that

they were pretty easy targets. So where did the boat go? They were kind of lost at sea for a while and I guess a Japanese fishing boat found them and took them to shore. Otherwise, this could have been a very—

Perished, as they say. Can you imagine being—how are you with the ocean? I love looking at the ocean. Right. I'm not really—I'm not a good swimmer. Don't really take motion very well. No, and also just the idea that I can swim, and motion I'm not a good swimmer. Don't really take motion very well. No, and also just the idea that I can swim and motion I'm not good at, but I don't like not knowing what's underneath me. The massive nature of the ocean is terrifying.

It is terrifying. And they're just out there floating. These are your parents. So they got picked up by a Japanese boat and taken to where? To shore, to the refugee camp in Thailand. Oh, so they didn't get that far. How far is that? I mean, maybe I don't know my geography.

I mean, yeah, Vietnam and Thailand are pretty, they're next to each other. Right. But they got out from- I don't know what the actual route was or how- But they were safe. Yeah, they got to the refugee camp and they stayed there for a few months. My mom gave birth to me there and my dad got taken care of in terms of his wound, yeah. Am I wrong in thinking that both people actually showed up in Florida or Texas or somewhere?

I think... Or was it just an influx of that's where the refugees ended up? I think they kind of got spread out all over the world, actually. I have some relatives who ended up in Australia, and I know some people ended up in Germany. It was really all over. But in terms of the U.S., I think there were some cities that the U.S. government designated as underpopulated.

It's like Texas, I think. So there's a sprinkling in Minnesota Minnesota and then Louisiana and New Orleans. Isn't that interesting? But I think it's local governments that decide that because like in Minnesota, there's a huge Somali population because they're just sort of like, we'll take them. Yeah. Is that what happened in New Orleans or was that a choice? I think so. No, there is a small Vietnamese population.

Well, I don't know if small is the right word, but it's a good size Vietnamese refugees and immigrants in New Orleans East. Yeah, when I was in, I grew up in Albuquerque and there was some there. And I remember I befriended a group of them in high school and they invited me over for dinner. It was very exciting, but none of them spoke any real English. And I somehow brought a case of beer over and a couple of them got sick. And then I felt very bad that, you know, I brought this beer over. But, you know, that's my memory of my experience with refugees. I'm trying to be nice and then two of them are throwing up.

And what are you going to do? Happens. Well, I think it depends on the person. My dad could handle if he was a drinker back in the old country. Oh, yeah? Yeah, I guess it is person to person with that. Yeah, yeah. So they show up and you're just a baby when you get to New Orleans?

Yeah, I was probably a few months old. I don't know exactly how old, probably like three months old. So your whole childhood is in New Orleans? Yeah, yeah. Well, that's kind of exciting. Well, they ended up in New Orleans because my dad had heard that his friend's father had gone there first and was already there. And so he wrote a letter. I don't know what organization,

I think it was maybe through the church or whatever group was facilitating the refugees. Somehow the letter got to him in New Orleans and he vouched for my dad and us. And so we went and lived with him for, I think, the first year until we got our own apartment. Wow. What an amazing story. Yeah. And what was your experience, like, in terms of, you know, first generation or second, like, what was their experience with America and how did that translate to you? Was there pressure?

I mean, I don't know. It's hard. you? Was there pressure? I mean, I don't know. It's hard. I feel a little trepidation answering this question because I don't want it to seem like that's unique to only Asian people or Asian immigrants. But all immigrants. I think it's all immigrants. And yeah, I think my parents just worked so hard. I think they just didn't want us to work as hard as they did or have to do the types of jobs that they did. What did they do? When we first came over, the father of his friend who we stayed with, he was a butcher. A butcher.

Yeah. My parents had a coffee shop in Saigon when they were, you know, there. Really? So my dad, like butchering is not, it's funny to imagine, trying to imagine my dad helping this guy slaughter animals. But he was in the restaurant racket, right? Yeah, but that's, you know, running a coffee shop and- Being a butcher, yeah. Killing animals.

Yeah, handling carcasses. But was it specifically for the Vietnamese community that he was butchering? Yeah. So there's a specific type of, like, because butchers is a real community thing. Like, you know, they're important. Yeah. That they have what the community needs. Yeah.

So they were actually killing the animals as well? I didn't really get into the details, but my dad's kind of like a smaller man. So just like the idea of him, you know, it's like funny to me. And what'd your mom do? And my mom, she just did everything. She worked at a factory that would take out crab meat, a seafood factory that, you know, that would package crab meat and seafood. She was on the line? Yeah, yeah. On the crab line?

Yeah, yeah. With a hairnet and gloves and all that. I remember being sick one time and sitting in the break room while she, like, had to go do that. They worked in kitchens, restaurant kitchens. My dad worked in the warehouse of a supermarket, just like loading stuff.

Jobs. Yeah, just jobs. And what was the experience growing up there as Vietnamese people? Did you feel alienated or was there? Well, we were in a pocket of just vietnamese people so it didn't feel i didn't feel um weird it's funny because you know new orleans historically is this melting pot of culture but like i don't know that always means everybody's embraced do you know what i mean yeah i yeah we did go to baton rouge for a couple of years when I was younger. And that's a little bit more white than New Orleans is, or at least the part of New Orleans I was in. Because in New Orleans East, it's like black and Vietnamese. There's not really a ton of white people who live there. And, you know, you'd have to go like uptown.

Right. Right. To the white neighborhood. To the white neighborhood. Yeah. But Baton Rouge was different? But yeah, Baton Rouge was a little bit more white. That's where LSU is. Yeah, oh, you went to school there? No, we were just there. My parents, I think, brought us there because they found a restaurant that they were trying to run.

And running a restaurant is really difficult. Sure. It was in a strip mall, and they ran a Chinese restaurant because Chinese food is popular and Vietnamese food had not become popular yet. Oh really? Not hip yet? Not hip yet. White people were not hip to Vietnamese food yet. So they had a Chinese restaurant and, um, that didn't last for very long. Oh. Yeah. Well, they were just managing it. They didn't, it wasn't their place or they opened it? No, it was their place. Oh, they opened it? Yeah, they opened it and like everything. My dad ran the front of the house. Oh, yeah.

And my mom did all of the cooking. So that's part of your growing up is going to the restaurant? Yeah, I'd go there after school. We lived in the little apartment complex across the street. There was a field, and you'd walk across it to go to the little strip mall. So you're eating in the back table, having food? I just like hanging out in the front yeah busting the tables after the customers left what happened they just couldn't

get people in or folding napkins it's just really hard we would just have difficult customers like people just giving giving them grief i remember one time this guy tried to or threatened to sue them because he said he choked on a fish bone or something like that. It was just hard. Oh, my God. Yeah, it's a rough business to keep going. It is. So what did your brother end up doing?

I have two brothers. I have an older brother and a younger brother. Oh, okay. The older brother? The older brother, they both actually live with my parents and just kind of help them do, do stuff. My, my older brother's a little bit of, um, uh, a Jack of all trades, master of none type of type of guy. Uh, super smart. Just hasn't really settled down. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe that'll happen, but he's okay. Younger brother's okay?

Yeah, he's great. Everybody's in Texas. Yeah, yeah, for now, yeah. So when do you start to break away and decide that you're going to be an actress? Well, I went to college from New Orleans. I went to college and I went to Boston to go to college, Boston University. I went to Boston University. You did?

I did. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. I didn't know that. Yeah. I graduated 86, I think, right? 86. Yeah, 86.

I was 2001. So what program were you in? A little bit after you. Yeah. Yeah. What program were you in? I was in the College of Communication. Is that right? Sure.

Comp? Yeah. Yeah. That's where you kind of do all this. They have the film in there. Right. I did. I studied film production. I almost dropped out after my first year. That's how much I enjoyed it. Why? You're sad? It was, yeah, it was not. I think I went and I visited the campus in the springtime, and it was like a really nice day. And once I was actually there, the winter was pretty brutal. My first winter there.

Oh, and it's not really a campus. It's a city. Yeah, and it was so big. It was so big. There's no quad or anything. What dorms were you in? Were you in Warren Towers? I was in Warren Towers.

Oh, so like, well, that's a nightmare. Yeah. Yeah. And the kids were kind of strange. Well, my last two years of high school, I had gone to like a public boarding school, so I felt like I had gone to college two years early. All right. So you thought you were used to that part of it. Yeah.

So that going away from leaving home and living in a dorm was not new to me. Right. And I guess it was new to everybody else because it was just. That freshman year is like, everyone's like, you don't know who's going to make it. And for what reason they're not going to make it, you know,

because all of a sudden people didn't realize they had mental health problems. They didn't realize they didn't know how to be away from their parents. They're like, it's just emotional insanity. Yeah. And in Warren towers, there's like two, what is there's two towers of just freshmen mostly. And you eat in the same building. I used to eat at Warren Towers,

I remember. And it's just like insane. Yeah. It was just weird. And now that you're, we're talking about this, I just remembered somebody at the end of the hall had an eating disorder and would leave garbage bags of vomit around. Yeah. Oh yeah. All that kind of stuff. leave garbage bags of vomit around. Yeah, oh yeah, all that kind of stuff. There was a girl two doors down from me who would constantly ask to borrow money from me, but like $200 at a time to go karaoke because her dad owned a steel factory in Korea

and it was not a big deal to ask to borrow $200. Did you give her the money? No, I didn't have $200 to give her. Wow, yeah, those are good examples. Then there's her the money? No, I didn't have $200 to give her. Wow, yeah. Those are good examples. Then there's always the one guy that's sort of like, I don't know what happened to him.

He left after the first semester. He just wasn't doing well. Those kind of people. Mental issues. It was crazy. Yeah. Yeah, because I went there. I started as a sophomore.

I went to a small college the first year because it was so terrible in high school. So you transferred there. Well, yeah, because when I applied to BU, the first time they wanted to put me in CVS, College of Basic Studies, or as they called it, coloring book school, when I was there, which was sort of like, hey, okay, you blew it in high school. You can be in this program until we can integrate you into- So your first year of college was in Albuquerque?

No, it was in Milton, Massachusetts, Curry College. Oh, okay. And then I transferred to BU sophomore year. I was pretty excited about it. I lived over... I didn't have to do the freshman dorm thing. How long did you go there? I completed all four years.

Oh, yeah? Where'd you move after Warren Towers? I lived off campus. It wasn't with any college students. They were like all older people. Oh, yeah. It was just a strange assortment of older. Old roommates.

Yeah, it's always going to be a little interesting. Like one of them has been there for 20 years and has just watched a flow of people come and go. Yeah, so I rented a room in like one of those big old Victorian houses. Was it depressing? Was this all a depressing experience? Yeah, it was. Now that I'm like, yeah, I'm thinking about it. Yeah, that was not a great time.

And did you come out? What was the degree in communications? In film, film production. Film production. So where do you go after that? I moved to New York after that. And my first job ended up being at PBS, but not doing anything creative. No? Well, how is that possible? Like, what'd you do?

I worked in the accounting department at PBS. At PBS in New York. But I felt like, oh, maybe this is a foot in the door. Somehow this can turn into something else, but it didn't. Did you? No production at all? You didn't even go on set? No, no. No, not at all. I mean, during that time I would try to get

little unpaid internships doing student films or whatever, or helping out on people's independent films that they were shooting on the weekends or whatever. I remember being a PA. Just picking up jobs? Just picking up jobs. Just picking up random things.

Like, you know, on the weekends. Did you do any big movies? No. No, they were all. Student films like NYU people? Yeah, like really small, dumb things. And so this does not sound like uplifting either. I'm so sorry.

No, but I mean, how was your mental state after college at PBS in accounting? What shifts? When's the moment where you're like, I'm going to do this thing? I don't know. I was just floating for a really long time, for a really long time. Somehow, during all of that, I did end up taking improv classes. Oh, where? I don't know if it was at NYU, one of those like adult education classes, like after work.

It might have been that. Or the new school or something, the NYU? Yeah. I think it was NYU. Yeah. But like not like NYU, NYU. Right. It was one of those extension, adult extension classes. Right.

So were you there with the other grownups? Yeah. Who didn't know what they wanted to do with their lives. Right. It was one of those extension, adult extension classes. Right. So were you there with the other grownups who didn't know what they wanted to do with their lives? Yeah. And then, I don't know how I found this other woman. She was just teaching. She was doing like her own separate school, but she was like a Groundling member before. Yeah. She was like in New York doing her own school.

For improv. For improv. How was that for you? She was really great. She was nice. She was like in New York doing her own school. For improv. For improv. How was that for you? She was really great. She was nice. She was very encouraging. I mean, I never felt like I was good at improv and I never enjoyed it. But she, as a teacher, was very positive and just encouraging.

Yeah. And you were working with other people. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it was, you know. Did you like it? No. No, Mark. I did not.

But you forced yourself through it. I forced myself to go. I was very introverted. I recognized that I had a problem that I could not continue into adulthood and not be able to talk to people or look them in the eye and talk to them. So this was sort of like, this was your way of throwing yourself into the fire. Yes. It was not to be an actor. It was just because I had also taken public speaking classes. So you really wanted to get on top of this thing. Yes, I did.

Mark, I recognized I had a problem and I tried to fix it. So I did that. I think I did there. I don't know if it's still around. Is something called Toastmasters? I don't know. Oh Yeah. So I did that. I think I did, I don't know if it's still around, is something called Toastmasters? I don't know. Oh, yes. I did that.

I remember that. That's a public speaking thing, right? Yeah. Wow. So you were like plagued by this problem. It was a bad one. It wasn't a minor problem. You were like,

I've got to get a handle on this. Is it gone for it can you i don't know i'm i mean i i was nervous coming here today but i'm fine no good and you're looking me in the eye that doesn't seem to be a problem yeah and you know clearly you can you know you can act yeah i think so yeah but so how do you get from this person paralyzed with fear to acting? Improv. And then I started going on auditions sort of as another. another um oh this is another effort to overcome your social uh what do you call it the anxiety disorder yeah to just go on audition like cold call like casting calls yeah like things that i would find on craigslist backstage backstage yeah um no kidding yeah village voice yeah anything yeah i thinking back on it it was was kind of maybe even a little dangerous.

I remember showing up at some random guy's apartment. Like so many random people's apartments in Brooklyn. Wow. You know? Did you ever have a situation where you're like, I got to get out of here? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Oh, no. Hold on. Let me just get the camera started. I think I'm going. That kind of stuff? Yeah. Oh, no. Hold on. Let me just get the camera started. I think I'm going. Yeah, I remember there was this guy doing a short film based on his ex-girlfriend who also happened to be Asian. And he showed me a picture of her and it was like she was naked with X bandages on her nipples. And I was like, I got to get out of here. Before he gets the tape out. I got to get out of here. Before he gets the tape out.

I got to get out before he offers me the roll of tape. Oh, boy. Oh, I was also doing extra work, being a background actor on Law & Order. How was that? How was it hanging out with the background people? That's always an uplifting experience. Yeah. You know what's fascinating about that? Is are some people that do it that love it.

Well, they come up with a system where they take care of themselves and they know how to deal with the weirdos. And they bring food. They know how to keep themselves fed and hydrated because— And some of them like being on set. I mean, whatever their expectation is. I mean, I haven't done extensive interviews with background work, but there's definitely people that do a lot of it because they enjoy it. Yeah. Being around the environment.

Yeah. I mean, I too enjoy being on set and around all of the busyness, but it's a little exhausting in a different way to be a background actor. You're not treated very well. You're not at all. I remember my first SAG job. I got hounded by the lady at craft service because she thought I was a background actor who was hanging out in the craft service area of the true actors, even though I did have a speaking part.

And so she was just giving me a dirty look the whole time. Why aren't you in the background tent? Yes, yes. Yeah, with the small bags of chips. But I mean, things like that happen to me still, even though I could be number two on the call sheet and people will still think that. Really? Yes.

Do you throw at fits about it or do you just politely say, I'm number two on the call sheet? No, I don't even say that. It's a very weird situation where you don't really want to, you know, do that where, you know, you try to. Right. You don't want to pull attitude. Yeah. I don't like pull rank or something like that in the moment. Yeah.

I think I just give them like a look. Yeah. Yeah. You should know who you're working with. Right. And look at the call sheet and do your homework. Yeah. And, you know.

Yeah. And even if I were a background actor, I don't think you should talk to me like that. Exactly. Who the fuck are you? You're all preoccupied making your little sausage wraps over here and walking around. Take a look. What's going on? So when do you get, like, was it TV work first?

I think my first real jobs weren't until I got to L. think i did um non-union and background work okay but yeah that was actually one of the reasons i was afraid to come to la was because the the rule was that you had to book a law and order before you could go to la you had to have a credit whose rule was that i don't know that's what people would say it's so funny that the assumption is like anybody can book one of those eventually. And you can't be an actor until you do one of those procedurals. Like you can't be a New York actor and transfer to L.A. until you booked like a co-star role on a Law & Order. One of them. One of the five.

That was your baptism into show business. So you did. Did you book one of those? I did not book a law and order. And so I was a little, I felt a little uneasy coming here to LA. What made you decide to move? Did you have representation? Did you have anything out here?

Did you? I did have an agent in New York who I rarely spoke to, but I told him I was interested in going out to LA. And so I was surprised that they offered to set up a meeting with their LA office. So unfortunately, it was in the youth department. I was like 30 something. How was that meeting? I was still going out on Nickelodeon auditions. Oh, that's funny.

So I mean, it was something, but it was also not very helpful. Okay, so, like, what was the first thing? Was it Treme that you really got to dig your teeth into or dig your, you know? Yeah, that was my first, like, real role, I think. I mean, I had booked, I think, some co-star roles before that. Right. But Treme was like my first thing because I was a recurring guest star. And you knew the terrain.

And I knew I was a fan of The Wire and I was... Simon's a good guy, right? Yeah, yeah. He's intense. Yeah, very intense. Yeah. And he knew you came from New Orleans, right?

I don't know. I was already in LA and I made an audition tape and I thought for sure they would just do a local hire because they like to hire real people. Right. But you are a real New Orleans person. But I am real New Orleans. So that worked out in my favor. So I ended up flying back and forth from LA to New Orleans. Were your folks still there at that point? Yeah. Yeah. My parents

were like, you should never have left. Look, you can work in town. Well, everywhere we shot was literally right down the street from where I grew up. I mean, one of the restaurants we shot in was a restaurant that I would go to on the weekends with my parents. Wow. Yeah. And they were like, you can move in and everyone will be together again. Yeah. So did that get you attention? No, I thought it would.

Yes. I thought it would get me out of the youth department. But no? Of the agency, but no. I think a couple of years later, I booked Inherent Vice. That was my first movie role, and I thought that would get me somewhere. Oh, you played like the madam? Didn't you run a?

Yes, I was a masseuse. Yes, a masseuse. At Chick Planet. Yeah, Chick Planet. How was it working? Because when I talked to Paul Thomas Anderson, he actually brought you up. Oh, really? He mentioned you, that he was excited about you and about some of the people that.

Thank you, Paul. Yeah. Was that good working with him? Yeah, fantastic. I had so much fun and Paul's so great. I got to start on like the first day of shooting. Yeah. And my role was pretty small, but I had a couple of little pop-ins here and there. And so I would be on the schedule, but they, you know, something would delay it and get pushed back. So I would hang out on set pretty much every day and I got to watch everyone come in and out.

Right. That's an education. Oh, yeah. Great actors in that movie. Oh, so, so many great actors. Crazy. So crazy. You can't pay for that kind of experience. It was amazing.

Well, that's the only way that you sort of get comfortable is by being around that and actually seeing people that you think are almost immortal just be regular people. Mm-hmm. You know? Like when Joaquin gets done with a scene, you're like, oh, he's just over there sitting. He's just a guy.

Yeah. It's so funny to me that he has this reputation for being an oddball, but I felt like he was so sweet. Yeah, he's very sweet, but he's just quiet, and that makes you an oddball if you don't like engage in the thing. But on the other hand, Josh Brolin couldn't be more charming. Oh, yeah. He's like, he's a real talker.

Yeah. Did you hang out with him? I, since it was my first movie, I tried to, you know. Yeah. Be respectful. Be respectful. Right. But yeah, he was also really like nice and I'm always impressed by people who can just like shoot the shit before a take and then jump right into it and be really intense. He has that ability. It's amazing. He's a great technical actor, too. I was watching him doing something in front of a green screen.

Oh, yeah. It was like so on the money. I don't know how he did it, but he like watched something on a laptop that he had to like match the movement precisely. He just did it. And he did it? I just looked at it in amazement. And, you know, it's just like this thing that you barely notice in the movie. But he nailed it. But yeah, just for me sitting there getting to watch it, I was like, wow. Oh, you know what else Josh Brolin did that was really cool that I noticed?

He was shooting a scene and there was a day player who I think was so nervous to be on set. Yeah. He was like flubbing their lines pretty badly. And Josh Brolin had been like word perfect, you know, like take after take after take. And then all of a sudden, like he started fucking up. And I think it was to make the other person feel, you know, less nervous. Oh, really? Yeah.

Did it work? Yeah, it did. Well, that's sweet. Yeah. Isn't that nice? Yeah. That's really great of him. Yeah.

I wonder if that person is still in the business. Probably. Yeah. You know. It's tough. It's a tough racket. It is. But yeah, it's like that movie is pretty all over the place.

It's kind of a great journey, that thing. It's wild. Joanna Newsom's in it. Oh, yeah. She's great. So then you do that odd movie. What odd movie? The downsizing movie.

They're all odd. But downsizing, I could not figure out. Oh, really? Okay. Yeah. I saw it. Yeah? Yeah.

I mean, you know, it was interesting, but, like, I couldn't quite understand. Like, you saw it when it came out or, like, later? I did. No, I saw it when it came out. Oh, okay. Because I'm a fan of, like, Alexander Payne. Uh-huh. And it was one of those movies I'm like, what the fuck is he doing?

What is he doing? I saw Honey, I Shrunk the Kids years ago, and you know, like, whatever. But I don't know if I understood what he was trying to do. Oh. But it was interesting. Yeah. Did you like that movie? I love that movie.

Yeah. Yeah, I loved it when I just read the script. It was so funny. Maybe I should see it again. Maybe. Maybe it's my first reaction. The device of it, I'm not sure. Sometimes as an audience member, you do the movie a disservice by jumping ahead and thinking you know where it should go.

Yeah, I think I just couldn't get past the little people. The little people? Yeah. For some reason, I'm like. It weirded you out? It didn't weird me out. I'm like, what are we doing? You know what I mean?

Because it seemed like almost like a Disney thing. It seemed like, you know, like there had been movies like that before, but they were always sort of broad comedies that, you know, that were for kids. And there was just something about the device, I think, that I couldn't. That's interesting because most people or I remember a lot of the complaints being that there wasn't enough of that. Of the little people? Yeah. Oh, interesting. I got to watch it again.

I'm not doing it. I'm doing a disservice. Because you work with Kristen Wiig. She's funny. She is really funny. But then you got a lot of flack for that movie? Yeah. Yeah.

I got a lot of flack for that movie? Yeah, yeah, I got a lot of flack for that movie, unfortunately. It was a bummer. It's like, why did they pick on actors? I mean, like, it's you were just doing your job. I know, it was my first big role. Leave me alone. I know Andrea is getting it now, you know,

Riceboro, for this. You know, it's like, it just makes the whole thing toxic. And it's got nothing to do with you, really. What were they saying exactly? Well, we premiered at the Venice Film Festival. Yeah. And I think one critic said that it was a masterpiece, used the M word. Right.

And then a couple of days later, we were at the Telluride Film Festival in Colorado. And I don't know if there was like... Wasn't a masterpiece anymore? I don't know. All of a sudden it was like a piece of dog shit, you know? Like, I don't know what happened in the span of a few days. But yeah, people were really upset about my accent. Once we got to the U.S., people were really upset about my accent in the movie and just my character's place within society. Really?

You know, just because... They decided that you weren't representing something from your own experience? It wasn't the kind of representation they wanted to see. But this wasn't the Vietnamese community. No, no. I think there might have been one or two Asian critics early on who had said that they didn't like the movie. had said that they didn't like the movie.

And I think that sort of gave the green light for white critics to also pile on and point to them and say, like, look, this Asian person didn't like it, so clearly the movie is racist, which it's not. So they accused you of being a stereotype? Yeah. Yeah, and that my performance was a caricature and, you know, all of that stuff. But you must have like known

people like you were portraying oh that's all i grew up with well here's what's funny so so you know the the studio and the the pr people they all they're all scrambling they know that this this is happening. But they want me to be aware, but also not be flummoxed by it. And I just flowed out like, maybe we could invite your parents to the, maybe we could invite your family to the premiere. And let them talk on camera. Yes. Bring everybody you knew. And I was like, I know what this is. I know what you're trying to do.

And I just didn't feel like I needed to show my bona fides in that way. I didn't have to drag my family out and have them join some sort of media circus just to shut up the people who had a problem with the movie. Yeah, it was just kind of a bummer. I think that that whole experience has colored how I feel about the whole conversation around representation and just recognition and awards and stuff like that. Really? Because that was an instance where I thought something really groundbreaking had happened where it was that character getting to be the female lead of a movie. And getting to be the romantic lead and learning so much about her. Yeah. Even though, you know, she doesn't show up until an hour into the movie.

But she sort of like takes over the movie after that point. And, you know, I kind of wish people could have acknowledged that that was like a really amazing thing for that type of character to be in a big studio movie. Right. That that hadn't really happened before. Yeah. type of character to be in a in a big studio movie that hadn't really happened before yeah but they just sort of glossed over that as if like it's something that happens all the time and so just accused you of being right yeah well it also was personally offensive because it was just like oh wait a minute so if you're accusing the movie of or that character of being racist or a caricature then you're saying that i like participated in that and I approved it.

I rubber stamped it. I'm tap dancing for these people for what? And so I think that was the part that like rubbed me, you know, that really. They forced you into a position. Right. Like I was just this little puppet who was being manipulated and I didn't have any sort of active participation in this. Like I didn't have a sort of active participation in this. Like I didn't have

a clear head and was making choices. I never felt like an actor who was making choices, basically during that whole. They gave you no agency. Right. As they say, as the kids say, agency. But for being, you know, they just assumed that you were playing along with a false representation for money. Yeah, because I was like so hungry for whatever. Oh, my God. Yeah, that part irked me. How did that affect you going forward? I was just disappointed.

Not that anybody owes me anything, but I felt like, oh, this could have. that anybody owes me anything but i felt like oh this could have i think because i saw how the asian community stepped up for everything after downsizing that came up and i was like wow yeah i really got the cold shoulder from the asian community could have used you uh yeah i could have used your help guys yeah um yeah i i didn't feel like anybody really kind of stepped up and said like or claimed me. Yeah. And I still feel that way. It's odd because I was talking to Key Kwan from Everything Everywhere all at once. And I saw him at a hotel.

We were staying at the same hotel. And I normally never go up to people and say hello. but I did because he seemed like a really sweet guy. And so he was like, oh, I'm going to this Asian awards show. Like, later, am I going to see you there? And I was like, no, I wasn't invited. And he was like, what? There must be a mistake. Like, we got to talk to somebody and correct this.

And I was like, no, Ki, I think we should just leave it alone. I think I know what's happening. Really? Did he talk to somebody? No, I was just like, you should just leave it alone. It's fine. It's fine. But what was happening? What do you think was happening? I don't know. I think people have a certain idea about me, maybe. I don't know. About you or about Vietnamese people? About me, I think. Or I'm just not their girl, maybe. about me maybe i don't know about you or about vietnamese people i mean about me i think or or or i'm just not their girl maybe i don't you know but that's so weird i mean you're i i that's

that's fucked up you know because i mean it almost seems like is it is it are you the wrong kind of Asian? I don't know, Mark. Because how are you any different than any of... Well, I mean, I've done stuff. I even did a movie called Driveways. It was directed by Andrew Ahn, who's an Asian-American queer director. And that one, I got nominated for an Indie Spirit Award. And I didn't hear anything from the Asian folks, so I don't know. That's weird to me. I wonder if it is sort of like, is there, do you know other Vietnamese actors that are being iced?

I don't know. I try not to keep up, Mark. Okay, okay. All right. I'm not going to, I'm not here to put you in a weird position, but it does seem. I feel weird because maybe this is like an in-house or family conversation and I'm having it with you. Oh, okay. But then I feel like I'm not in the family, so I couldn't even have the family conversation if I wanted to.

It's a little weird. And that's a horrible moment that you had to go through with him. Like I wasn't invited. Because he just assumed. Yeah. Wow. I'm like, I've never been recognized or invited. That's crazy.

But you're in these huge movies. It's crazy. Wow. I'm going to call some people. I'm going to make some calls. Yeah. But how are you reacting? How are you engaging with this whole process that you're in with this nomination?

I don't know. But I mean, are you dressing up and doing this stuff? Oh, yeah, yeah. Is that what you mean? Yeah, I'm dressing up. I'm doing this stuff. It's pretty wild because I had a kid two years ago and after I gave birth I heard two pairs of pants and two pairs of shorts and four shirts from Patagonia and that's all I've been wearing for like the past two years

yeah so all of a sudden I have to you know get hair and makeup and and wear all these dresses and five-inch platform heels. Is it fun, though? It's work, but, you know, I'm still trying to figure out how to make it fun. Uh-huh. So you don't innately play the game well. I wish I knew. I wish I knew, but I don't. Yeah. I mean, I like watching other people who do aim well. I wish I knew. I wish I knew, but I don't. Yeah.

I mean, I like watching other people who do it well. Like, that's fascinating to me. Are you in a competitive spirit? Do you care? No, I'm not. That's also the other thing that kind of I don't know how to reconcile. I don't like watching a movie, especially during this time when you're supposed to like fill out a ballot or whatever. I don't like, I don't like thinking, oh, this person was better than that person. how much it takes to do that and whether it turns out as well as you hope it does or it doesn't negate the amount of work and the optimism you bring into something. Right. And also, this role in The Whale, the one you're nominated for, you didn't play up any sort of ethnicity really uh no um but i still feel like she was very specifically asian to me well yeah i mean well

that's because it's me yeah it's going to be a given right um but yeah the that role was not written for an asian person yeah uh it was a play originally in all of the productions. Did you see the play? No, I didn't. That's the sad thing about living in LA is that you miss a lot of theater going on in New York. or had been played by a white actress. And even when I was up for the part, the other names of the other actresses that my agent told me was in the running, they weren't Asian. Well, I thought you did a great job with it. Thank you.

I liked the movie, and it was painful. Yeah. And I talked to Brendan about it, and that was heavy, man. It was a heavy conversation. He's a heavy character as a person. Well, he's extremely thoughtful and philosophical. Yeah.

So. Yeah, and right. A little heavy hearted, too, about some things. Yeah, yeah. But it's not. I like that, too, but it's not – I like that too. Sure. Sometimes I struggle with the very, you know, light, cheerful.

Oh, yeah, yeah. No, of course. But like we got into some stuff, you know, because I was brought up with a certain amount of food awareness because my mother had eating disorder. So like I found it affected me in an odd way. disorder so like i found it affected me in an odd way like when i watched the movie and then when i talked to him about you know the nature of of the condition he was in because when i watched the movie i didn't get hung up on that yeah you know i really got very quickly into the sort of emotional content of of the characters so and that was interesting to me. Like I wasn't marveling at, you know, the condition, but I was sort of engaged with, with the emotional interaction and your character in the twist at the

end was, it totally worked on me. You know, I know this movie is very sort of divisive. You know, either people love it or they hate it. But I thought the one thing that got me about the film was that your character is, you know, almost demonic enabling. Okay. Yeah. Demonic. I haven't heard that. But, yeah, enabling. Yeah, she's an enabler.

Yeah. But there was – at points there was an anger to it. There was a defensiveness to it where you would stop other people from stepping in to help this guy because, you know, you knew him better than anybody else. And you knew in your heart that there was nothing going to change it. I love that you saw that because I think most people think that she was sweet or something. And that always struck me as strange. Did not register that at all. I was like, oh, okay.

Yeah, I mean, that is somebody not engaging with the movie properly. Yeah, I mean, I like to not, you know. No, okay, I'm not putting you in a position where you have to judge critics. But like right from the get-go, I'm like, what the fuck is up with this person? Because you don't find out your backstory or his really until the third act really, right? But like I knew right away, I'm like, why doesn't someone stop this woman from feeding him?

You know, what is her problem? And then the weird kind of emotional conflictedness of your relationship with him. I don't know. I found it to be disturbing and deep and nuanced in how you played it. I mean, how did you approach that character? I know it's a weird question, but I mean...

Yeah, I guess the demonic enabling was not foreign to me. Oh, really? How so? I mean, I've been witness to me. Oh, really? How so? I mean, I've been witness to those, that type of relationship in my life. And your family? In my family, yeah.

And yeah, that part did not, I didn't really have to struggle. But did you get it? Like right when you read it i got it immediately yeah yeah um and and also that that wanting to box out other people and wanting to be the only person in his life well that's like had that sort of uh connection and in that relationship um and control in some weird role and there's like something a little bit selfish that sort of connection in that relationship. And control in some weird way. And control, and there's like something a little bit selfish in that. Totally.

Totally. I mean, yeah, I mean, that, you know, codependency is a weird thing, right? And, you know, there was one moment there that I kind of remember where, you know, there was that sort of, um, um, the denying of food and then the reward, the giving of like that whole weird dynamic of like, no, no. Okay.

Here, you know, it's, it's, it's heavy. And he was sort of like in such a heart Yeah. That the relationship was sort of understood. Yeah. Yeah.

Did that set get heavy emotionally at times? It was a pretty serious set. It was serious for all sorts of reasons. You know, one being COVID, because it was the first movie that I did after the industry started back up. So vaccines weren't available yet. COVID was pretty scary still. Yeah, sure. Yeah. So there was that.

We didn't do a lot of socializing the moment they yelled cut. We would put our masks right back on. Didn't that raise the stakes? Because I shot a movie. We would put our masks right back on. Didn't that raise the stakes? Because I shot a movie. I shot two Leslie in that same situation where everyone's masked.

All circles of employment are masked. And the only time you're not masked is after action. So it kind of makes the emotional intensity of things very immediate. And you almost crave the interaction on some level that you don't even understand. Right? I mean, we, you know, we didn't really socialize. That was pretty small to begin with. So anytime you talk for too long to somebody, it could be just like the set dresser, you know, and the AD would come over and be like, you need to separate and not stand so close. So it was pretty serious. And then,

So it was pretty serious. And then, you know, I always try to be really aware of other people's energy and not taking up too much of their energy necessarily. So I didn't want to pepper Brendan with a bunch of, you know, as nine questions, like whatever, just to take up space. And he's got to sit in that carcass all day long. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I just don't need that. I mean, I just felt his energy. Like that was like enough for me, you know?

Like he's such a, I feel like my words are failing me because he's, it's hard to describe the feeling that you have around him. Like I, you can be silent next to him and it feels, it's fulfilling. Yeah, I can see that. And I imagine like, well, who played that, the teenager? Ty Simpkins and Sadie Sink was his daughter. The funny thing about them, both Ty and Sadie, is that even though I'm older than them, I feel like they've been acting for longer than I have.

Like, Ty's been on camera since he was three months old. Oh, wow. And I think Sadie started when she was like six or something like that. Yeah, they're both pretty. They were great. Yeah, yeah. And then Samantha Morton comes in with that monologue and you're like, what the fuck? Like, that was so, it was all very heavy, but I was very, I found it very satisfying.

It was so satisfying to be on that set and just be so focused and serious about the work, you know. And Sam Hunter, the writer, was there with us. So it felt like working on a play because the playwright, the writer was there, which normally that doesn't happen. And also limited set, right? Yeah, very, very limited. It's like a play because the writer was there, which normally that doesn't happen. And also limited set, right? Yeah, very, very limited. It's like a play almost. Yeah. Wow.

And Darren was good? He's great. I don't know what the general opinion of him is out there, that he's an intense guy or whatever. Yeah. I think he's just so approachable and easy to talk to. I don't know. I mean, I know he went to Harvard and all of that and he's super intelligent, but. He's still a director and he's got to be, you know, you got to work with him.

You know, on our very first day of filming, he, I don't know if you'd be embarrassed about me sharing this story, but he took us outside. Yeah. And we took our masks off. Uh-huh. And we held hands in a circle. And he gave a little speech and thanked us all for being there. Oh. It was just so sweet.

That's nice. And then he did that again at the wrap after we were done. Yeah. So I just felt like it was like very, I don't know. Yeah. I mean, it's an emotional, spiritual bonding moment.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, and also I found this out later, but normally his parents come to set and hang out, but because of COVID they didn't this time. And both of his parents passed recently. And so the movie is dedicated to them.

Oh, really? They passed close to each other? It's wild when that happens. And the menu, I didn't see it yet. Okay, that's fine. How was that one? Don't follow the trend. You don't need to be up to date with what everybody else is talking about.

I know. I'll get to it. I almost watched it this morning, but I figured, like, how much am I going to learn about her from watching the one movie? How is that going to change the conversation? It's not. Right? How was that? Was that a big part?

Yes and no um i feel like it's i'm it's strange like a lot of people have seen that movie and um i did four movies in 2021 yeah and it was kind of crazy because i had just given birth and was expecting to just be at home with my daughter. Uh, so I did the whale and then I did Kelly's movie showing up afterwards. And then I did the menu and it was, it was kind of crazy because I don't think of myself as, as, um, enjoying horror or anything kind of related to that. So it's a movie that I don't know if I necessarily would seek out to watch.

Exactly. That's my experience. My girlfriend, who's a horror fanatic, saw it and liked it. But it takes a minute for me to get around to that. She did take me to that Cronenberg kids movie. What was that one?

Yeah, I tried to process it. But I get impatient with horror or fantasy. I'm like, where are we going with this? What's happening? Can we get some closure? I don't love thrillers. It makes me anxious. Oh, okay.

But I'll watch it. Okay. So you don't love it either, but you're in it. I didn't say that, Mark. No, the genre But I'll watch it. Okay. So you don't love it either, but you're in it. I didn't say that, Mark. No, the genre, I'm saying. You don't find yourself in a lot of horror movies. I mean, it wasn't as gory as I was imagining it could be. Right.

But I wanted to work on it to work with Mark Milod because he did Succession. Yeah, it's great. Yeah. Was that good? Good experience? Yeah, he's really great. Can't wait for the Succession at the third new season.

Yeah. Can't wait for it. Yeah. Yeah, same. I think I spent most of the time on set trying to like get stories from Succession. Really?

You tried to get him to tell you details of the new season? Yeah, he's like pretty actually, he's pretty open about it. Oh, so you know? You know what's going to happen? Oh my God.

What are you doing with the Yorgos Lanthimos? I'm sorry, Mike. I didn't mean to say that. You said nothing. What are you doing with the Yorgos Lanthimos? What is that? That guy's, I've interviewed him.

Oh yeah? Yeah, and his movies are like daunting, but amazing. I'm sort I've interviewed him. Oh, yeah? Yeah, and his movies are like daunting but amazing. I'm sort of fascinated with him. Did you feel like he gave you any concrete answers about anything? Kind of, yeah. And we actually ended up having dinner in – where was it? He was in England, was it?

It must have been England, right? Because I'm trying to remember. Because we socialized afterwards and it was kind of nice. But yeah, I mean, as concrete as those guys are going to get, guys who do that. As those guys, yeah. Well, I don't think they necessarily know. I don't think they have the answers that you want. They're possessed by something and they commit to it. Is this one kind of out there or what? What's it called? And? It's called and. Yeah. Is this one kind of out there or what? What's it called?

And? It's called And. Yeah. Is it done? It's done. Yeah. We shot it in New Orleans, actually. Hmm.

Yeah. Did you understand what you were doing? Not really, but it wasn't. It's not necessary at this point. Yeah. You know, you just want to work with the people. It doesn't really.

Was it a good experience? But the script was funny. Like I read the script and it was, Jesse Plemons is in the movie and, yeah, and we,

it's, I guess I can say this. So it's, it's three short stories. Okay. And we play different characters in each one.

Oh. So the same actors play different characters. Well, that sounds like an engaging creative process. Yeah. So it's Emma Stone and Jesse Plemons and Willem Dafoe, Margaret Qualley, Joe Allen and me. Wow. Yeah. Yeah.

Good cast. That's some heavy actors, man. Yeah. Right? But I asked Jesse, I was like, so... What? We were asking each other, so what do you think about the script? Because, you know, you're all trying to see what the other person thinks and piece things together.

And I said, I was going to try to reread the script and figure out what the themes connecting the three stories were, but then I just kind of gave up, and he was like, yeah, same. That's sweet. Well, good. I'm excited about that. I'm excited to see what happens for you at the big party where they give away the toy.

And also, we'll do some outreach to the Asian... Oh dear. What is that organization called? I don't know. Oh, okay. Now you don't know. Great talking to you. That was a good conversation, right? And somebody invite her to a party. Again, Hong Chao is nominated for Best Supporting Actress at the Oscars for her performance in The Whale. Also, The Menu is streaming on HBO Max. Hang out for a minute, will ya?

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Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes

with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Hey, if you've been following the different series we've been doing on The Full Marin, you've heard us talk about the days of Morning Sedition, my old radio show on Air America. This week, we've got Dan Pashman, one of my old producers and now a podcast host in his own right. We used to sit around and talk about food a lot.

And now Dan has turned that into a career. How's the pasta you invented doing? That's very exciting. It's like it's in 2,500 stores around America. Do you make money off of that? Yeah. I mean, it's still less than I make from the podcast. Pasta residuals aren't great?

They're good. They're good? Yeah. But it's cool. It's more than I expected to make. Sure. But it's now established. What's it called, the style of pasta?

It's called Cascatelli. Cascatelli. And who manufactures that? The original one is made by a company called Sfolini, S-F-O-G-L-I-N-I.com. There's several companies manufacturing your pasta? So there's a version at Trader Joe's that's like generic. It doesn't have my name or anything on it, but that's there. It's not made by Sfolini.

It's not the same, but it's like half the price. But it's your design? Yeah, same concept, same design. And then there's a gluten-free version made from chickpeas made by Bonza that's in Whole Foods nationwide. And this is all your, is you on the name, you get credit on that one? On that one, yeah. Oh, yeah? What is it, on the package?

Yeah, it's got like a little Sporkful logo and stuff. Oh, Sporkful logo, like designed by Dan Pashman? Yeah, yeah, basically. Ah. So it's been exciting, yeah. Do you have any more pasta designs on the? I launched two new shapes, actually, which I, these two new ones I didn't invent.

They're obscure Italian shapes, and I teamed up with Sfolini to produce them. They're difficult, if not impossible, to find in America. What are those called? One is called Vesuvio, like Mount Vesuvius, and one is called Quattrotini. Oh, wow.

To hear more Pashman and the latest installment of Good Morning Geniuses, the oral history of morning sedition, subscribe to The Full Marin. Just click on the link in the episode description or go to WTFpod.com and click on WTF Plus. Brendan and Chris will be back tomorrow on The Full Marin for the Friday show with a guest, Aubrey Edwards, a classically trained ballet dancer turned referee. And of course, Full Marin subscribers get every episode ad-free. Next week here on the podcast, on Monday, we have comedian Ronnie Chang, and on Thursday, director Bobby Farrelly.

Here we go. This is a real song. Thank you. Thank you. boomer lives monkey and lafonda cat angels everywhere