WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1415 - Ronny Chieng

Episode Date: March 6, 2023

Ronny Chieng has been in America for less than a decade and he’s cementing himself as a prolific force in comedy. With two Netflix specials, a regular spot on The Daily Show, and multiple roles in high profile films already under his belt, Ronny is living a comedian’s dream. He tells Marc how he went from law school in Australia to doing regular comedy work and how a festival encounter with Trevor Noah changed everything. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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We live and we die. We control nothing beyond that. An epic saga based on the global bestselling novel by James Clavel. To show your true heart is to risk your life when i die here you'll never leave japan alive fx's shogun a new original series streaming february 27th exclusively on disney plus 18 plus subscription required t's and c's apply All right, let's do this. How are you, what the fuckers? What the fuck, buddies?

What the fuck, Knicks? What the fuckadelics? What's happening? How are you? What's going on? I'm trying to bring it in, reel it in, man. Ronnie Chang is on the show today. Do you know him?

I think you probably do. You might know him from The Daily Show. You might know him from his Netflix stand-up specials, Speakeasy and Asian Comedian Destroys America, and from movies like Crazy Rich Asians, Shang-Chi, and Megan. He's in The History of the World Part II on Hulu. A lot going on. Intense guy. Didn't know him. Did not know him before this. So I watched a couple of his stand-up specials,

and then the next day I talked to him. I met him and I talked to him, and we had an amazing chat. On Thursday next week, we're going to have Jason Wolliner on again to talk about his series, Paul T. Goldman. There's no way for that talk to be spoiler free. So if you want to watch Paul T. Goldman before that, it's only six episodes, about three hours and 20 minutes total length. And it's streaming on Peacock. You should do that. It is something. And it was challenging to me.

So that's, I'm going to talk to Jason about it specifically. All right? So watch that. All right? Okay. I was in New Mexico, and I spent time with the dad, with the old man, and he's actually holding relatively steady in a slightly spaced-out state, but he's kind of holding steady. He still knows who I am

when I'm there anyways. From what I understand, sometimes I talk to him on the phone and after he hangs up, a few minutes go by and he doesn't know who he was talking to. But I don't think that has anything to do with me. He still seems to know who he is, mostly. He's not really sure what happened at some points in his life. I did a little of that with him, kind of went over some stuff. A lot of it not great, but that's the funny thing is he mostly, the stuff he doesn't remember are, like he's not sure what happened that drove certain decisions of his, the catalysts usually have negative events where he either got taken for a ride by a, by some huckster of some kind, which, which he's want to do, or he got himself in trouble.

So like he, he spent a lot of time going from practice to practice out there in the world. It's a long story that involves most of the country. My father left New Mexico in some sort of furious mania and started doing deals with orthopedic practices in small towns that needed a doctor. So over the course of a decade, he was in Victoria, Texas, Muscatine, Iowa, Warsaw, New York. Where else? You know, and usually he'd get run out of town for being an asshole. But the truth is he doesn't remember what got him there, what made him make that decision, what made him, you know, get in trouble, what made him lose all his money? He forgets that stuff. And I guess if you're going to forget some big chunks of your life, those would be the ones to do. Those would be the ones that you wouldn't miss. It'd be kind of a relief to be done with

those. How'd you get so fucked up? I don't remember. Why'd you go do that terrible thing? It's not, I don't know. It's not, it's gone. I don't know. So, so, so that's, I, it's not a benefit, but I tried to refresh his memory. That's always a fun thing to do to sit there with your dad and go like, no, you, you fucked up. That's why you had a, that's why you did that. And I spent like many hours with the guy over the weekend, just trying to sort of, uh of piece together periods of his life with him. You know, his memory is actually very thorough. The timelines are vague. But I think that's not I don't think that's necessarily dementia. I think that is a symptom of age.

If you didn't take notes, shit gets jumbled and events float untethered in your history of you. It's just a fact. I mean, I guess I'm kind of seeing myself now as a new old. I'm one of the new olds. I'm one of the now generation of new olds. And I've been trying sort of, you know, to put my own timeline together, right? So I'm almost six decades into this charade, this debacle, this farce, and I've lived in five different cities, some of them twice. So it makes it tricky to kind of get

a timeline going. I mean, I remember events. I remember people. I remember things I did. Some of them are hazy, but I have no real kind of, I don't have any familial stability as markers. I mean, I don't have a consistent life, you know, as a marker of time. I have no kids. I had a couple of wives, uh, and that explains maybe nine years of some consistency, at least around who was primary in my life. Uh, and, but I was with them for longer than that, but you, you know, what, I wasn't always the greatest boyfriend in the world. Other than that, you know, I have a few cats and I have a lot of interactions and engagements of many different kinds with many different people. Yes, I'm being a little cagey

on purpose, though, oddly, when I was with my dad, you know, just out of nowhere, we on the couch, after long periods of silence, we're watching TV, kind of. He's just complaining about, you know, that he can't quite hear the TV that well. But there's something wrong with their TV. The lips don't sync up with the voice, with the words. But he said a couple things. I made fun of a stool softening commercial because of the silly tune they used,

which I imagine was they're trying to get old people to buy it. So they're basically using a children's song because they think that'll register with the people that might need a stool softener. So I made fun of that. And my father literally said, I think I might need some of that. And then a few minutes later, out of nowhere, he just says, I guess I was kind of a womanizer. And I was like, ah, that's where that comes from. Okie dokie. But I kind of knew that. So the deal, though, when you move around a lot and it's just it's hard to get a narrative going.

The other thing that makes it difficult is that, you know, I was a fairly active drunk and addict for a good chunk of time. I would say my adult life, I'd say from like 15 to 1999, on and off. Look, I was functional, obviously, as functional as one needed to be to pursue a life of comedy, to be driven by fury and desire to be a comedian. That was always the priority to do that.

And a lot of stuff fell to the wayside, like responsible adulthood. So my point is, after talking to my father and seeing, you know, how checked out he is around some of this stuff that should have had a profound impact on him. But he was like that before he got lost, before he lost his mind. And like through the course of my life, I did a lot of emotional damage to myself and to others. And I have a somewhat vague recollection as to the catalysts of some of the more painful changes I went through. But just like my old man, some of them are a little hazy. But I believe I can still excavate the timeline if I sit down and put it together.

Is it necessary? I wouldn't say that this is being nostalgic. I just want answers. Because as I've mentioned before, I find that more people remember me as an asshole than I remember. And somehow I've got to be like, what was going on then?

And the reason I'm reflecting now is because I was home and I spent time with a couple of my oldest friends. Some more of the new olds. We are the new olds. We are the new olds. And we're all around 60. And one of them actually puts a time limit on how much we can talk about physical health, blood numbers, poop, exercise, aches and pains, and jerking off.

There's a limit. He says, we got 10 minutes on that. It's my friend Dave. So we were able to isolate, Dave and I, that I was probably the biggest asshole when I was in my early to mid twenties. And because I would come to town occasionally, you know, like maybe just after college or towards the end of college. And I'd come home for periods of time, but you know, I don't think he really knew me that well as I became more evolved as an asshole in relationships as I got older. So I'm going to have to talk to some other sources for that. Look, I know I'm making myself out to be a horror show, but honestly, I've worked through most of this stuff, a lot of it. Sometimes with people I've hurt.

a lot of it. Sometimes with people I've hurt. A lot of it is sort of toothless now within me, other than some shame or as I do occasionally. We have all broken hearts and have broken hearts. Right? So I guess seeing my father this time trying to put it together for himself, but ultimately landing on, I just don't care anymore. That's where he gets. We work on it for a little while. I just don't care anymore. And I think that's profound because I imagine eventually it'll be, I just, I don't know. I just don't know anymore. I guess that'll, I guess that'll happen soon. I guess it'll all go. So again, I want to make clear, I'm not being nostalgic. I'm not being melancholy. I'm just assessing.

I'm on a psychological dig into my memory for understanding the impact of who I was on myself and others, and hopefully finding some good stuff as well in the soul dumpster. So look, Ronnie Chang is here. The History of the World Part II is now streaming on Hulu, and Megan is streaming on Peacock. And this is an intense guy and a good comedian. This is me and Ronnie Chang talking. You can get anything you need with Uber Eats.

Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get an ice rink on Uber Eats. But iced tea and ice cream? Yes, we can deliver that. Uber Eats. Get almost, almost anything. Order now. Product availability may vary by region.

See app for details. Death is in our air. This year's most anticipated series. FX's Shogun, only on Disney+. We live and we die. We control nothing beyond that. An epic saga based on the global best-selling novel by James Clavel.

To show your true heart is to risk your life. When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive. FX's Shogun, a new original series streaming February 27th exclusively on Disney+. 18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. I don't spend much time in New York, but when I go back, you know, I usually go out to eat and I go to museums and I do whatever I'm there to do. Normal human stuff, yeah.

Right. Instead of. Right, but I don't feel the urge to, like, you know, like, I got to get over there because, I don't know, like it's such a fucking, you know, dick swinging fest. Yes, yes. Well, you know what's weird? You know what's weird is that I'm only starting to get started in LA because I've been seven years in America. I never really lived here or came here that much.

I'm here for five months for work. And now I feel the same way you feel in New York in the sense of like, should I be, you know, I need stage time, but I don't know if I can be going to the improv. Don't go to the improv, come to the store. Oh no, everywhere.

I'm past at the store. I, you know, I, I, I went through the audition. I did. Yeah.

Yeah. So I can do it. It's just more, it's, I, I feel like it's what you feel in New York is what I'm feeling here maybe a little bit.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I know New York. I mean, Jesus,

I was there through the worst of it, you know, but I used to run around. I tell you what, man, I spot every. I mean, I know New York. I mean, Jesus, I was there through the worst of it. Yes. You know, but I used to run around. I tell you what, man. Every time I speak to my comics seniors, like when I'm lucky enough to speak to Leary or you or whomever, I always ask them about that scene because they always tell me catch.

They tell me stand up New York. They tell me comic strip was a place, you know. Yeah, I mean, when I started, you'd run around, you'd do, you know, stand-up New York, which always sucked. Catch was hard to get into, and that guy never passed me. And I resented him forever, but he eventually gave me Carnegie Hall

because he works with the festival. Caroline's. Yeah, Louis Ferranda. Oh, yeah, Louis always been super cool to me, yeah. Yeah, yeah, but he used to be the bartender at Catch. No wonder. And he used to be the guy that would make you sit at the bar and go, yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll get you on.

You know, just to, you know, Jerry stopped by. So you'd wait there all night. Right, right. And then you watch the whole audience leave. Right, right. And then he'd put you on for seven people. Right, right, right. I did that twice and I'm like, fuck that guy.

Right, right. He was always super cool to me. Well, no, no. He's turned around. Oh, fuck that guy. Right, right. He was always super cool to me. Well, no, no. He's turned around. Oh, yeah, no. And also, what I really appreciate about the New York comedy scene

was that I kind of, I was, I went in 2015. Yeah. I got hired at the Daily Show, but I wasn't established in America. Yeah. So I had to rebuild my bona fides,

so to speak. Sure. And I kind of approached it with like, no entitlement, please just, so to speak. Sure. And I kind of approached it with like, no entitlement, please just give me five minutes. You know, I'll prove myself with this five minutes

and people were always, everyone I encountered was, no one was a dick. Maybe they didn't give me five minutes right away, but they, they will audition me and after that,

they will book me. So me and Newt, I got a lot of love for everyone in the New York comedy scene. Even the characters who are a little bit like hey you know

prove yourself who the fuck are you even those guys I appreciated them because it was like I would hear stories from people like you about them

you mean Patrice no no he wasn't around when I oh really he's already gone he was gone when he's been dead that long

yeah he was gone when I got there no shit yeah yeah huh but um no I know I know yeah there's that thing I got there. No shit. Yeah, yeah. Huh. No, I know. Yeah, there's that thing. I just mean the bookers more.

Oh, yeah, yeah. And even the comics. To be honest, the comics, everyone was always super cool to me. I think, I don't know. I just think in America, surprisingly, believe it or not, even in New York City, there's a feeling of you get what you give. Well, I think also you get there, and if you're ready to go, you're ready to go, and then you learn how to fight, you know? I mean, there's no, like, the one thing about New York is that they're not going to indulge much dicking around.

They won't. Especially the main clubs, you know? I mean, the alt scene, which I don't even know if it exists anymore, was different. It was a little more indulgent. But if you're going to do those clubs, I mean, you got hit on all cylinders all the time. Yes. And you learn how to do that. Yes. You have to be good, for sure. That's all the time. Yes. And you learn how to do that. Yes.

You have to be good for sure. That's the base level. But I guess what I'm describing is more. They were open to you. Yeah. I think there was more open and I was very grateful to be there. Yeah. It took me 20 years to get to America.

But it's funny. You know, I watch you. Like, I didn't, I wasn't really familiar. Like, I knew, you know, to me, you were on my radar because I missed you in New York, and I knew that you were out there, but I didn't watch this stuff until, you know, this week. The two specials. Thank you for watching it.

Of course. You know, but I just, but it's so funny when, you know, I just, I'm working off a promo, you know, and I'm like, who the fuck's this guy? You know, but having not known your history, and then when I watch you, I'm like, oh, well, this is guy, this guy's like of my ilk. You know, he's not, do you know what I mean? It's not, you know, it wasn't like, you didn't take the easy path in terms of what you choose to talk about as a stand-up.

Wow, that's high praise. I appreciate that. But it's true, you know, like I know, like there are guys you watch, like there's a couple of guys I watch and I know where people like me or have the same interest as me stand up wise come from because there's not that many of us. You know, if you track it back to like whoever you like, whether it's Hicks or Patrice or, you know, Stuart Lee or Stan Hope or whatever, there are guys that do a certain thing, you know, but that's not most of them. Yes, yes. Right? Well, that's high praise if you're, you know, coming from you. I know you don't suffer fools. No, but

you know, we all have to suffer fools. We're stand-ups. We spend most of our careers suffering fools. Yeah, yeah. Our peers. I guess so. I guess we, some of us suffer more fools than others, I guess I make room you know because it's interesting you know in the in the i think in the second special where you know you set your sights on rowan atkinson oh yeah but you know i get it

you know but but you know as far as fools go he's like the king of fools and but you know as you get older and stand up you're like well they there is room for that right right but you know but it's not without reproach sure sure sure yeah and even my you know i don't get into the details of the special you know i don't you know because you know like explaining jokes is the death of comedy so no but you're autobiographical enough where you can tell a story without explaining a joke. Sure. And for me, me talking about Mr. Bean is, you know, I actually have tons of respect

for any comic. So me talking about Mr. Bean is actually, for me, that's more a story of British colonialism in Singapore. Yeah, yeah.

That's really what I'm talking about. Yeah, right. And that was a long, you know, that was a 15-minute setup. I know. So again, not...

It's a risky bit of business, but the one thing I can tell by who you are stylistically is that, you know, you're willing to take that risk because, you know, what's the worst that can happen? Is that it tanks? Worst that can happen is people who don't appreciate snap comedy don't like it because it's not a TikTok bit. It's not a bit for TikTok. Not only is it not a TikTok bit, but it's not a traditional joke, right? So like, you know, you're executing an idea that unfolds

and there's many examples. It's interesting because I was watching this because I just shot a special and, you know, I saw where you made decisions and I wonder like with my own stuff, not that, you know,

we're the same, but like, you know, you set up your closer as a callback at the beginning. And I noticed that. Yes. But I really wonder, you know,

just a regular person watching, if they caught that. Oh, you mean the second special? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? Yes. No, you're very,

I mean, thank you again. Neutral respect here from a seasoned pro who saw what I was trying to do. And I mean, my philosophy was I don't know if people everyone got it

but it doesn't matter you knew it's continuity and also gives when you work with callbacks which I didn't do till later

because when I decided to start organizing as opposed to just talking you know like it's satisfying right because you know where you're going I tell you what's satisfying is sitting? Because you know where you're going.

I tell you what's satisfying, sitting here with you and you telling me you caught it. It means that I did something right. Well, there was another one too. Because structurally I did the same thing where the second, I knew that these callbacks were there, but they weren't like, you know, exact. Like if you call back a joke

and you repeat the punchline later, they're like, oh shit. But even when you're packing and the delivery guy comes and you're like, I've got no time. It was fundamentally going against the whole idea of being an American. So I saw that too.

Exactly. Thank you. That's very kind of you. I think I got that from, I started doing comedy in Australia, which by the way, is where I first saw you was when you came to the Melbourne Comedy Festival. Oh my God.

You don't remember that. I do. Like I was like doing some painful, some painful hour. No, it wasn't painful. It was very well, you were very well respected by the comics at that time. And you came and,

and you came to the Melbourne International Comedy Festival. I should give them a proper plug because that's where I got my start and I was, you know, and don't take this

the wrong way but you were also kind of a comics comic so when you came all the comics were like, oh my man, go see him,

go see him. And that festival format for as much as I hate that festival format idea of shows where you have to have a point and you kind of shoehorn

a character development. Yeah, no, it's the worst because they don't have to be joke efficient. Right. And it's annoying. It can get indulgent

and whimsical. Whimsical is the worst. Sure, yeah. Which is why, yeah. I know I saw the special. Yeah, but one thing they did teach me is there can be payoff with longer stories

and they can be callbacks how to do a callback and you know as hacky as the idea is that if you can set up a callback that you call back at the end yeah that kind of is what contributes to making a show feel like a show exactly right like Right. Like, yeah, because I, you know, as a comic, you know, I would, I was real loose

for a long time, but you realize, I don't know if it's hacky, but it's a trick. Yeah, you know, I say hacky to be kind of, not to put, not to put stand up

on a pedestal, but really, is it as hacky as saying that stories have three act structures and that Joseph Campbell, the hero's journey, is that hacky? You know what I mean?

No, I get it. Yeah. But the funny thing is about a callback, I mean, you're going to make it what you're going to make it. I mean, the subject matter is, you know, it can be whatever you want. Yes. But the bottom line is, if you do them in an obvious enough way, the audience is always going to think you're a fucking genius.

Yes. Well, and then as you put it just now, as you're all going to think you're a fucking genius. Yes. Well, and then as you put it just now, as you're alluding to, there are callbacks and then there's hacky callbacks. Of course. Yeah. So even that, there's ways to- Yeah. You got to be careful it's not a hook.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like a catchphrase. Exactly. Right? So yeah. So stuff like that.

I mean, the second special, I think I intentionally increased the level of difficulty for myself in a way which I probably will never do again. Really? Yeah. Because you didn't know if it was going to land?

I'm not even talking about the callback. The material was the least of my worries. It's the presentation of that special which really worried me a lot. The lounge thing yeah so every comic kind of wants to capture that small comedy club vibe

sure very few I think actually manage to do that on camera yeah you know it's a thing which is actually

very hard to because sometimes if you get it wrong it just looks cheap and small yeah I did Thinky Paint I did downstairs

you know around the corner from the cellar and it was like 200 people. Yeah. Yeah. And, and the weird thing is, is that like, you know, you were smart in that everybody was kind of in the dark. You know, if you, if you get that first row in the light, you know, you brought up a good point.

That's a hundred percent it. But then if you notice, cause I shot it in the round. Yeah. So I got people behind me. Yeah. You can see them. Yeah. But barely, like literally you could see like the whole front row and, you know, you notice, because I shot it in the round. Yeah. So I got people behind me. Yeah. So you can see them. Yeah, but barely.

Like, literally, you could see, like, the whole front row. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, many of the times they're not laughing. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Because, you know, it's cameras on them. And then there's, it's in the round, you know, performing the round is difficult. That was like 80 people. Yeah.

You know, less than 80. So it became that. Yeah. So it became, you know, the level of, I just, I stacked the cards against myself in that second special

a little bit, maybe in a way which I'll probably never do again. And you shot that first one over here? Yeah, in Glendale.

So I got a lot of love for Glendale. I know that theater. I've never been in there, but it's nice. It's beautiful. How'd you get set up with that place?

What's it called? The Alex? Alex Theater. And it was beautiful and we were looking for a place to film it quite last minute in the relative world How'd you get set up with that place? What's it called? The Alex? Alex Theater. And it was beautiful. And we were looking for a place to film it. Quite last minute in the relative world of things in the sense, I think it was two months. Yeah.

It was quite last minute. Yeah. Looking for a nice theater. I wanted to shoot in LA. Yeah. That was my intent because my visual theme for the first special was American show business. Yeah. Classic American show business. So I wanted to do it in LA. The drape red curtain. Yeah. Classic American show business. So I wanted to do it in LA.

The drape red curtain. Right. And the fact that it was in Glendale for me was like, oh yeah, that's funny because it's not quite LA. It's like you couldn't

quite make it to LA. So we played off that. But really, that was just a function of what was available to us. So it was Alex Theatre that became available. And they need the business

to be Alex Theatre. Oh, I mean, I can't speak to that, but they were very welcoming to me. That's nice. We shot it, and I asked Joe Coy, because I was researching the theater beforehand, and Joe Coy shot in that theater, actually. He did.

A special. And so I asked him, hey, do you have any tips for this special? And he said, mic up the second balcony. Mic up the second floor. Mic it up, because if you don't mic it up, you won't hear the laughter, and you're going to think you're bombing. Oh. And so he did two shows there.

And first show, he thought he bombed. And then he said he mic'd up the second show so he could hear it. On the monitors? Yeah, on the monitors. And what great advice. Yeah? What great specific advice. It was real comics advice.

And it worked. I think it made a difference. I'll never know because I never did it without micing up. But, you know, stuff like that. I'm like, a difference. I'll never know because I never did it without micing up, but stuff like that, I'm like, oh yeah, that's great. And also speaks to

that kind of comic peer respect, right? That he will come in, he's so free, Joe Coy, so free of his information. Sweet guy,

and it's practical information. Yeah, very practical. You know what I mean? It's a business thing. Yeah, and generous, and positive.

And anyway, we filmed there and it got on Netflix. And I think it got kind of, if I do say this myself, yeah, people kind of got behind it a bit. Yeah. Yeah. No, I thought it was great. And it was a, it was a, it was a good, it was a unique approach because it's interesting, you know, in, in, I don't know, in your life or, or, but I know in your presentation that, you know, you're, you're,

you're taking sort of a satirical, but you know, cutting line on America, but there, there's an honesty to the fact that you just want to, you know, be rich. Well, I think the honesty is in,

if, if I'm, I'm here to, because I love performing standup comedy and this is the place for it. Right. This is where it was invented. But the funny thing is, it's like you do like this idea that, you know, you know, I just, you know, I tell, I tell jokes for money. Is that like, but that's not you.

You're not really that guy. I mean, you are making a living doing standup, but you know, it, it does not strike me that that was your primary intention was to tell jokes to make money. Oh, I hope so. Yeah. My primary intention is self-expression. Yes. And did you stand up? Yeah.

So I think the satirical point, thank you for giving me the benefit of the doubt, is that I find it pretty, is irony the right word, that all these people working really hard at life. Yeah. Rightfully so. But we just, you know, go on stage and we just, we yell at people, we complain about things. It's a hustle. We insult large groups of people. Yeah.

And then suddenly we get money for it. I think it's pretty funny. It's great. I think it's pretty funny. Yeah. You managed to hack the system. Sure. You know?

But I'm curious though, because you don't take, you know, you don't take, you know, your cultural identification is what it is. And certainly in that first special, it was prominent and it was enlightening to me. But what are you finding is your audience? I mean, you're not, you know, you're not, you're not Joe Coy. You know, you're not, you're not doing an international presentation. Are you?

What is it like? I'm trying, I'm trying not to. I'm trying, not that i don't want to be joking i'm trying not to do uh i don't want to be the i don't want to be just the foreigner in america making fun of america right you know i i want i i'm i'm hoping that i can be more than that but you do like but but you but you do more than that but i think also you amplify the asian experience which is you know a real thing sure and and in in terms of and it's a culture that lives within the culture of america so i

thought that you know i'd never seen it handled so well from any you know outside or you know person who's new here generationally new here uh you know so it. Oh, thank you. Again, that's very high praise. Again, trying to not go for the easy racial jokes, trying not to go for easy immigrant jokes, I think ultimately is part of my experience. So I think it makes its way into my self-expression. Sure. But I try not to rely on that. I think my guiding light was always like, if it was comedy in general,

was like, if it's a joke that I feel someone else could have thought of, I don't want to do it. Yeah, in the same way. And then you got to

get rid of those jokes. Yeah. It's the worst. And then you kind of, you want to do a joke that no one else could come up with. That's what makes

a professional. Well, the funny thing is though, when you do the type of humor that you do, that like, you know, if you have one,

you think it might be familiar. There's only like three guys you get a call yeah yeah but isn't it weird that in this digital world we still that's such an analog the analog way of doing comedy still works in the sense of like the three guys you just mentioned i'll literally be like hey man this joke is funny but someone has a god has to have it they're like i haven't heard it yeah i haven't heard it and're like, I haven't heard it. I haven't heard it. And then you get three, I haven't heard it.

You're like, all right, I guess we'll go. And then the special comes out and you see it three other places. Yeah, yeah. I know I'm watching yours last night and you started talking about, well, you know, COVID's COVID, but you started talking about stupid people. And I do, in my special, it comes out in a couple of weeks, there's a whole chunk on stupid people. But you did it differently. But we're saying the same thing.

But I took a more kind of fascist approach. That this is something more dangerous than just dummies. But when I'm watching, I'm like, oh, fuck. Right, right. Sometimes I have. I mean, that happens to me too, watching a parallel thought. Right, exactly. But I do think that there is something of we all express these ideas differently. I think so, usually.

Unless you're, well, you see something now, which I've become critical of, and it's going to bite me in the ass in a way that I've got to accept because I, you know, I stand by it. But there is this idea of, you know, people, you know, saying controversial things specifically to do it. So there's this kind of like, you know, these guys who are like the anti-woke guys and their hacks is that in the sense that like, you know, if that's your presentation, it's like, you know, we're, you know, we can't say what we want to say. And they're all they want to say is the same three things. Yes.

And it's like annoying to me. Yes. It's like, you know, we can't say what we want to say, and all they want to say is the same three things. Yes. And it's, like, annoying to me. Yes. It's super annoying. And because there's a whole sort of, you know, army of people that are not – they're not essentially comedy fans. Yes. They're followers. Yes. They're anti-woke whatever followers.

Whatever. Yeah. But it's like a tribalism, and it's like, you know, look, I'm a decent guy. Right, right. But I'm not going to hold back. 100%. So it's just sort of, it's weird that it's become that there are these dividing lines. Yes.

And of course you hit the nail on the head with that stuff in terms of like, um, there's, there's a couple of comic. Well, comedy has always been anti-establishment. Back to Bruce. Yeah. If you, if you do it correctly. Yeah. Yeah. It's always, it's kind of counter cultural

it's a bit subversive it's a little bit edgy that's the point of it and so I think you had throughout history of comedy and let's just move it to right recently

you've had a couple guys who are kind of edgy in that they'll poke the bear with folk stuff but they're also great at comedy and so all these

amateurs watch these guys do it and go that's what is, just saying edgy stuff and make people angry. You don't see the skill. They just see the TikTok insult or whatever. Or just they look at it as an easy way in. Yeah. Is that they find their people. Yeah, exactly.

They'll find their people, a way to kind of monetize their fan base. But the thing is the anti-authority thing. a way to kind of monetize their fan base. But the thing is the anti-authority thing. It's like even with the way that the media world is fragmenting and that you don't need mainstream media to succeed anymore. But the thing is that like all this, the idea of anti-authority or rebelliousness, once it's half the goddamn country,

it's not really that anymore. Well, here's the thing. I agree with you, of course. But the thing is that being anti-establishment is like, this is what Kyle Kinane said one time, you know, he just told me like, you know, being a comedy is supposed to be anti-institution. We're supposed to make fun of institutions. And then suddenly you look up one day and suddenly you're the institution. Right.

You know, and so what I'm trying to say is that like the left and the right both have their institutions. Bubbles. So sometimes you're making fun of the left. Yeah. And because they started out as a grassroots thing,

but then they became an institution to itself. Of course. So to your point of like, of like half the country's rebellious, I still, I think that that just means that you can make fun of the that extreme left and extreme right no absolutely but like we outside of left and right sometimes the bear you're poking is a guy you know right so so it's a matter of like what are you willing to take that risk yes i mean you know i see what you're saying i see what you're saying.

I see what you're saying now. And for me personally. Like Rowan Atkinson. Right. Like I doubt he's going to give a fuck about, you know, about what you said. But you use him as an example. No, that's a great example. And you made a choice.

I hear what you're saying. And for me, you're absolutely right. There is a thing where suddenly, you know, I just think that there's this unspoken rule, honor among thieves of stand-up comics, you know? And you're older than me, so you've seen a lot more. No, there is, but I've crossed it before. And, you know, it's a weird thing, you know, that, you know, hey, man, you can say whatever you want, which I believe is true. But, you know, years ago, you know, I took a shot at, you know know adam sandler fans and and uh and you know it came back to him yes and then he comes up to me years ago and says you know why why are you why are you talking shit about me i'm like

you're a cultural institution right i mean you represent something right right like if i you know what we are there's so many of us i gotta respect every fucking uh you know what i mean i think this is where we might we might have a point of difference yeah because for me I was someone described me as some like a grateful immigrant mindset yeah I was so happy to come to America all my comedy heroes yeah when I mean that all I have is utmost respect for everybody's body of work you know up to a point but that point has to be something heinous or really egregious. But if it's just an artist

making that thing, doing that thing, I'm like, man, Of course. So that's why I don't go after comics because for me, I consider it like,

oh. But you did. Sorry, American comics. Yeah, and the point is, is like, you know,

I understand what you're saying and I agree with you. But at some point, you know, once somebody dictates part of the establishment culture. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, you're right. I'm not taking anything away from anyone's craft or process or what they've contributed to the culture.

You're talking about making fun of institutions, as I said before, when people become an institution. That's right. Yes. It's tricky. Yeah. Theoretically, you're totally right. And that's also why you're a countercultural figure. You're willing to go after it.

And I have a limited appeal. For me, it's just I just got a lot of love for all the American comics I grew up watching. Sure. And it took me a long time to come here. Where did you start your life? You weren't born in Australia. Yeah, I was born in Malaysia. Yeah.

Johor Bahru, Malaysia. And then my parents went to New Hampshire College. New Hampshire College. Yeah, quite late in life. Actually, it's a community college that has since merged with Southern University of Southern So you were in the States? Yeah, yeah. After Malaysia.

When I was three years old, my parents actually decided to go get a college degree. So they brought two kids and they went to America with no financial support. Brother, sister? Yeah, me and my sister. And so we lived in America while they completed their undergrad and master's. And then they moved back. What did they study? They studied business, and I think my dad did a master's in economics,

then my mom did a master's in MBA. And so we're the immigrants who came, and then we went back. Sure, to Malaysia. Went back to Malaysia, and then after Malaysia, we went to Singapore. So for me, Malaysia and Singapore, it's like New York, New Jersey. So when people always ask me, are you Malaysian or Singaporean?

I'm like, dude, I live on the border town of Malaysia. So I would wake up in Malaysia and then go to school in Singapore. You know what I mean? So for me, where I was in Malaysia, I would go in and out of Singapore all the time. So I spent 10 years in Singapore after that. So our immigrant story was that we only went for college, so we went back. You know what I mean? That's why we have American kind of knowledge, but not a chip on our shoulder.

We want America long enough to be mistreated. As a family. As a family or even individually. As a kid, there's no racism in, you know, As a family, you mean? As a family or even individually, you know, as a kid, there's no racism in, well, I'm lucky, I never saw. Yeah, there wasn't, man.

I mean, maybe I was too young to see, I was four years old. No, no, I mean, like, look, man, you know. At that level, you know, there's no. Right, there's always racism, but now it's like,

there's something weird that's happening in the struggle for, you know, dominance culturally that, you know, because of how much attention is paid to a dialogue around racism that there's a normalization going on

that's a little disturbing. In the sense that racists feel a little more comfortable being racist. Well, you know what? If they're comfortable, say that stuff. Say that shit and let us know. Let us know your inner thoughts. Yeah.

So we know that you're fucked up. Well, they are. They are, I think. Yeah. And I still believe there's more good people than bad people in America. And I still believe that when these races out themselves, most people are going to be upset at them. And I don't think that the internet is reality. Sure.

And also, most people will be upset with them. And then they'll just find the people that aren't upset with them and they'll do shows for them. Yes. And that's literally what happened. I know. But it won't be, you know, but you know the deal. It's not as good as people make it out to be. No, no. I think so.

I think a lot of people are just quietly living their lives. Yes. Most people are not on Twitter. Yes. You know, sadly, a lot of people are on Facebook and they got their minds fucked. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But like I do believe that you're probably right. Most people are just, you know, living their lives and trying to do good. I think that the end of the first special, you know, is very touching. Oh, thank you. Both of them, actually. Thank you. Well, I mean,

the subway story is on the first one, though, right? Yes. Yeah, that's good. Thanks. I mean, because, you know, because like there was I think that that message of humanity at the sort of as the arc of what you find is interesting and also bad about America and also where you come from and who you are, that that moment was a solid, solid ending. Thank you. But like that kind of stuff, you worked that out in a comedy club? Yeah, I managed to figure it out at one of the best in the country, Madison on State, which is such a- The best. It's so interesting, the best clubs. The stage is a little high, right? Yeah, the stage is a little high, but still- It's great. Oh, no, no. Those two are great clubs. Acme is great. Yeah. Oh, so you did runs there to kind of pull it all together?

Yeah. Well, to be honest, the way it happened was I was just happy to tour in America. I was looking to do comedy clubs. I was looking to live that life when I came here. So I was being booked. My agents were booking me at these A-rooms, which I really appreciated, so-called A-rooms. And truthfully, they were. And I wasn't preparing for a special. I was just touring for the sake of touring.

I was just doing it. But do you do it like, I mean, I tend to write on stage. I write things down. So you're working it all out and then see if it sticks. It sticks. Yes, I write on stage. And in fact, I remember the reason I brought Madison is because I remember that's the first time I said that story out loud on stage. Yeah, it's like, because that's the only way I've been able to work.

Yeah, me too. And I'm very hard on myself about that because when you see people that are straightup joke writers, you're like, why the fuck can't I just do that? And I realized that all of the joy for me is the joy of discovery. Like, you know, like if you just sit and write jokes like math problems, you know, for me, you know, I've done jokes like that. They've happened. Yes. But you get bored with them. Yes.

Because, you know, it's sort of like, okay, that works. Yes. But when you execute something that is evolving, it's pretty great. No, 100%. I used to say, well, I didn't used to say it. I still say like the only time, I don't know about you, but the only time me as a standout comic can have a good gig, I'm saying a good spot is if I do the material and everything killed, I had a good interaction with a crowd and it killed and I did something new

that killed and I improvised. So, you know what I mean? Exactly, yeah. And so, that's what you're speaking about is like,

if all those things didn't happen, I'll just say like, ah, okay. It's okay. Yeah, for me, it's always that thing

that came out of nowhere. Yes, yes. And I guess it's improv, but a lot of times, like, I get punchlines from, I don't know where they come from. The way I usually characterize it is, is that if I'm backed into a corner, you know, I don't know where they come from. Yeah. Like, it's, the way I usually characterize it is,

is that if I'm backed into a corner, Yeah. you know, I'm not going to fight. Yes. I'm going to make jokes. Yeah, yeah. And I'm going to sort of like,

Yeah. get out. Yeah, yeah. So that's what I, I'm the same. Yeah, that's what I do on stage. I'm the same.

I'm the same. And, and, and like, there's those moments where you like, like even on my special, two things happen that never happened before, and they were perfect.

Yes. And I was like, I don't know where that comes from magic on the day it is magic magic on the day alchemy is alchemy something go from go from nothing

yeah and then they become the strongest punchlines like I always think about it's like why was that delivered to me yes I know it come from my brain yes yes yes

but it was delivered same I feel the same I feel exactly that's the magic right it is the magic and the only way you can have well in my opinion the only way you can have magic on the day is if you have magic on the page already. Yeah.

And also if you're open to it. Yeah. You're open to it. I mean, I've done specials and things where I've- And you're not relying on it. You're not relying on magic on day. Yeah. And you don't get, there's a, you got to get to a point, and you seem to have gotten there earlier than me, where you honestly are comfortable enough and don't give a fuck in some ways enough to let it happen.

Do you know what I mean? You have to be comfortable to let those moments happen. Yeah. Yes, yes. But I think that comfort for me came from just like constantly gigging. Yeah, of course. To the point where you have an out-of-body experience when you're doing your material and then you're so free with it. Yeah, it's the best.

Yeah. So, okay, so you're in Singapore for till you're how old? I was in Singapore till I was 17, 18. Oh, so now are you taking comedy in?

Is it something that's moving you early on? Are you being pulled different directions? What's happening? Yeah, no, nothing to do with comedy. Watching a lot of local

Singaporean comedy, which is not stand-up. You know, it's just TV comedy. Is it broad? Yeah, very broad. Very broad.

The only, the only inkling of stand-up comedy I had in my head was, one was when I was, when I was four years old, 1989. Yeah.

The, Seinfeld would come on TV. Sure. And we watch as a family. Yeah. And he would do the bits in between

and I was like what is this? Yeah, yeah. And then I told my I remember telling my mom I want to try that sometime. Really? She said yeah.

When you were four that's good. But I never did anything about it for 20 years. What were you doing? What were you thinking your life was going to be? Oh, I was trying to

I was just living in Singapore which is a very very specific experience. How so? It's a very specific country. It's not, it's in between, you know, it's English speaking and it's also Chinese culture facing. But it's not completely it's very unique

Chinese diaspora you know it's nothing very different to Hong Kong and China and Taiwan it's it's own

kind of little thing you know closer to Malaysia the population is like 5 million or something small so it has it's own thing

so it's like but it's a first world country so it's almost like Wakanda in that way it's yeah it is it's asia wakanda yeah you know the beautiful it's beautiful it's clean it's safe yeah uh health care is great education system's great culturally probably like uh not a lot of freedom of speech there you know. That's just how they governed there. The Lee Kuan Yew decided to prioritize economic survival over, you know,

chewing gum and being able to say whatever you want. Because at that time, the founder of Singapore was fighting communists for control of Singapore. And so when he,

because of that, they had to kind of crack down a lot on people's had to kind of crack down a lot on people's ability to kind of express themselves and criticize the government. Oh, so you're saying in newspapers and publicly

and whatever, but at home you're okay. There's no... Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. No microphones in the house. Yeah, yeah. No, no, no microphones in the houses.

Not super draconian. A little bit kind of authoritarian maybe, but not like, yeah. And my second experience draconian a little bit kind of uh authoritarian maybe but not not like yeah um uh and and uh my second experience with stand-up comedy was they were broadcast just for laughs from canada yeah i didn't know it's canada you know i was wondering where they broadcast that because i've done so many of those galas and no one's ever fucking seen them maybe i should go to singapore you should go to singapore man they Singapore man in the 90s there was a show on TV

I remember watching this and going and to be fair it wasn't they weren't like global superstar comics they were just showing the comics

just the solid headline experience funny headlines I was watching this and going this stuff is really funny man and that's very interesting but again

I never did anything about it because in Singapore, there's no infrastructure for that. The concept of stamp comedy, there's maybe one or two guys who are performing live. But were you studying something else? Did you have another plan?

So I went to Australia when I was 18 and I went to law school. Your family didn't go to Australia? They were always in Singapore? Yeah. And you, okay. Yeah, my sister went to Australia

for medical school. Younger sister? Older sister. Yeah. And you, okay. Yeah. My sister went to Australia for medical school. Younger sister? Older sister. Yeah. And so I went to Australia. It was almost like the path of least resistance because she was already there. It was, to be honest, at that time, I was very much trying to get out of Singapore. Yeah.

So I went to Australia for law school. And then I, because law school in Australia is undergraduate. Interesting. Really? Yeah, yeah. So that was, so you thought that would be, was that, did you find that that was a reaction to pressure from your folks?

Yeah, yeah. A doctor and a lawyer, that's pretty good. Yeah, it was a bit of a, definitely they pushed us in those directions, but I will say my sister took to medicine quite like, quite organically. Is she a specialist? She's an anesthesiologist.

Okay. And she was a great student. And her personality type was just perfect for that academic, rigorous academic study. She loved it. She was great at it. So it just so happened that they pushed us, but they pushed a kid who, in my opinion,

my sister was always destined to be a doctor. So they just pushed her into what she was supposed to do anyway. And then for me, I kind of don't blame my parents for going to law school. I wanted to go because I went to really bad schools in Singapore. I was from very neighborhood, shitty schools. And so going to law school was my way of kind of proving myself to the world

of like you guys got it wrong I wasn't this dumbass I actually could get into the best law school in Australia

so that's what happened I got into the best law school in Australia and I was there and I was the worst law student in the best law school in Australia

terrible grades but at that time I was still like oh I just gotta I'm gonna get a law degree. I did two degrees at once. I did a commerce degree and a law degree

at the same time. And I was going to, in my head, I was like, oh, I'm going to go back to Singapore and become a lawyer in Singapore.

Did you have any respect for the law? I mean, it would seem that given the nature of authoritarianism or mild authoritarianism in Singapore

that it would be fairly restrictive and you'd have to be operating, beholden to the government on some level as a lawyer. Yeah, yeah, of course.

Of course. No, Singapore is, you know, two sides of the coin. So one side is authoritarian. That's the ugly way to look at it. And the flip side,

the positive way to look at it is that they're very rule-based. So it's very orderly. Right. When you're there, it's very orderly and that's why

businesses do business there. It would make law a little simpler. Law is, I don't know if it's simpler there, but it's very bureaucratic and it's actually efficient.

It's a very efficient country. In fact, the UN lists it as its healthcare system as like the third most efficient in the world. Oh, yeah. It's a very efficient country. In fact, the UN lists it as its healthcare system as like the third most efficient in the world. Oh, yeah. It's a very efficient country.

So, they respect the rule of law there and they respect systems that make sense. So, everything in Singapore makes a lot of sense. When you go there, there's no dumb lines

that, you know, like everything government-orientated is very logical. It'll be what's the best for the people. It seems like you have

that kind of brain though. I mean, you're not, it doesn't seem like, efficiency, yeah. You're not like a math guy, but you, sure. But you,

like a lot of the themes in your comedy are sort of like A plus B equals C. Yeah, yeah. Don't fuck with it. Yeah, efficiency. Logical efficiency,

I think is, yeah, and which, because I grew up in that. So when I don't see in other countries, I'm always like, guys,

there's a better way to do this. It's simple. Yeah, it's that. So when I don't see in other countries, I'm always like, guys, there's a better way to do this. It's simple. Yeah, it's simple. So that frustration drives a lot of it. And then, yeah, so in Singapore, I was going to go back and become a lawyer. But then what happened was at my university, University of Melbourne,

there was a campus comedy competition, a standup competition. And every year I would sign up and then every year I would like, like not show up, chicken out. Freak out, yeah. Yeah, and then my final year of law school, I was like, well, if I don't do this now,

I'm never gonna get to do this. So I signed up and I spent two weeks just like freaking out over material and trying to figure it out. That's the whole first 10 years of standup. Yeah, and then I actually won that competition and then that got me into, it got me hooked.

And then I just started looking for gigs outside of university. It was a good scene there, right? Melbourne had a few clubs? With the perspective I have now, by global standards, Melbourne has a great scene. By American New York standards,

it, you know, nothing can hold a candle to New York. Of course, in the whole world. But I remember, yeah, I had one of the worst experiences of my life in Melbourne. Yeah, I heard something about this, but I obviously didn't know you at that time.

It was like in the 90s, probably 94. Well, nothing, I just took a gig at a place called The Last Laugh. I don't even No, it was like in the 90s, probably 94. then what happened? Well, nothing. I just took a gig at a place called The Last Laugh. I don't even know if it was still there. Yes, the Melbourne

Calling Street. Yes, that's an old comedy club. Right, and the guy booked me out of New York right before I left New York as a headliner and I was a middle at best.

I just didn't have the time. But I took the gig and it was like a four-week run with one week of previews. So it was like a five-week commitment. And I was just like struggling that first week to get the hour done and do the time.

And, you know, it was like, you know, the structures of the show was fucking with me. You know, they had like a host and then they had like these two women. One of them had an accordion. And then they brought on a guy who closed by escaping from a straight jacket on a unicycle. And then they had an intermission. It was like a cruise ship. It was like a variety show. Right, right.

And I just like, you know, the week of previews, I was just pulling teeth. And I didn't like being away from home. And I was losing it. Right. And the first night, you know, I just bombed so hard, dude. Right. Like I got up there and like someone said, you know, where'd you get that jacket? And I just froze.

And for like 45 minutes, all I could hear were the embers of my cigarette burning. And they sent me home and I was so grateful. They were just sort of like, this isn't working out. Oh. But like, it was horrible. But, you know, and I'll never forget it, but it was one of the worst experiences of my life. But it was my own fault. I just couldn't, I didn't have the time.

I took a job I couldn't handle. Okay. And it was so weird because I, for years, you know, I had this weird memory. And then I went to Scotland and I realized that the host. Edinburgh. Yeah. Yeah. And I've only gone there once.

I'll never go back. But I went there and the host, like it was Greg Fleet. Yeah. And I recognized him. This is like 20 years later or whatever. I'm like, oh, you were there. And he's like, yes. You know, and it was so funny. That I recognized him. This is like 20 years later or whatever. I'm like, oh, you were there. And he's like, yes. You know, it was so funny.

That's so funny. I haven't heard an American say the word Greg Fleet in a while. He's an OG. Oh, yeah, for sure. Real. Did you go see Jeff Stilson? Sure, I knew Stilson here. Right.

Yeah, yeah. He was in Melbourne at the time, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. He moved there for a bit. Yeah, because he's married to, I don't know where he is now. He's married to an Australian, I think. Yeah, but he's in L.A. He moved there for a bit. Yeah, because he's married to, I don't know where he is now. He's married to an Australian, I think. Yeah, but he's in LA. He's been in LA for the last almost eight years, I would say.

That's so weird. I should interview him. Yeah. He's great, man. Stilson, any comedy club worth its salt in America, if you go there, you'll see his photo on the wall. No, he was great, dude. And I think he was like, he wrote for Letterman, I think. Yes, he wrote for, he won like He wrote for Letterman I think Yes he wrote for He won many Emmys

For Letterman Yeah And then He came to Australia And you would see him At these like Bar shows In Melbourne

And he would come And he was so down to earth And so humble You wouldn't guess That he's the most Qualified comic In the country at that time He would come and be like

Hey do you mind If I get some stage time You know I Do you story for Letterman I have some Emmy yeah of course man and he had great jokes

yes he was he's a great joke writer and also not that I guess this doesn't matter anymore but like he's a great person yeah nice guy very generous with his time

S-T-I-L-S-O-N right yes Stilson I didn't fucking interview you gotta get him man he's a connection to a previous world oh I know dude I like those guys and I know, dude.

I like those guys. And I know him. And that's so weird, dude. Yeah. He's still touring, man. He works with Louis Black sometimes. Yeah. He's opening for Louis Black.

Okay. So you win the competition. Now you're doing mics? Yeah. So I'm doing mics. And my whole thing from the start was like, I kind of figured out pretty quickly, like I don't want anyone I know to ever come for

these gigs because I want to prove myself to total strangers who are not invested in your outcome and I just didn't want the pressure of my family there or friends like when I was starting out in New York I would make the comics leave if when I first got into the cellar and i saw a tell come into the room like get out that's i can't do it that's really fun i i i hadn't i didn't have the clout you had to chase comics out of room but they were my contemporary so we were all the same yeah but i i um i would do it i just wanted to test myself in public so i just kept doing it and in melbourne uh it's kind of like when i was starting out if you could get one gig a month, you were like killing it

because that's how- For a mic? Yeah, yeah. Oh, so you couldn't go on every week? No, eventually you will work your way. Let's say I was doing it for a year, two years, and then you build a little bit of reputation

and then you could get on like maybe once a week. Who are the people, who are your contemporaries there? In Australia? Yeah. Nazeem Hussain, Matt O'Kind,

Tommy Little, Nick Cody, a bunch of guys. These guys were probably my peers. And what was interesting about us, Reese Nicholson, who was- Wasn't Arj Barker the king of Australia?

Arj Barker is still the king of Australia. I play poker with him. Oh, you do? Yeah, yeah. He's a great guy, man. I knew him when he was, before he left in you do? Yeah, yeah. He's a great guy, man. Yeah. I knew him when he was, before he left in San Francisco. Yeah.

He found a place where he could make a ton of money. Good for him. Yeah. And the thing about all my peers was that we, we couldn't get on TV to save our lives.

Partially because there weren't vehicles for us, really. In Australia. In Australia. And also to, not to pat ourselves on the back, but we were a little, we were green, but we were definitely the counter-cultural vibe because, you know, Reese Nicholson, gay man,

me being wherever I am, Nazeem, Muslim, Sri Lankan. And so, there was no place for us on TV and because of that we just did live and it kind of worked in our favor

because you would hear about us but then the only way you could see us was to come live and so we kind of built a

so all my peers we kind of built a live following so it was not I mean I think that without TV so it was kind of alt comedy,

but not really. Not really, yeah. You were just, you had to find your own place. Yes, we had to find

our own place and thankfully, live was it and we were, yeah. And who were you watching? Who was influencing you? Because I feel like

there's definitely markers. Yes. And like, but like, who were the guys where you would, you saw a template? Like, as a fan? There were a lot of guys, man. And like, but like who, who were the guys where you would, you saw a template? Um.

Like as a fan? Uh, there were a lot of guys, man. I actually, uh, uh, Bill Burr was obviously

huge. Um, and I'm so glad, he actually EP'd my special. Yeah. So I'm glad to be friends with him, you know,

um. Which one, the new one or the first one? Both of them. Both of them, yeah. And I opened for him in Australia.

That's why I met him. And, um, he was so, super cool to me. Uh, I love of them, yeah. And I opened for him in Australia. That's why I met him. And he was super cool to me. I love Todd Berry. I think Todd Berry is great. Yeah, yeah, he's great. I love...

I get a lot of inspiration from Chappelle. Not so much obviously in our styles, but just aesthetics and how he can talk about... Structure. Yeah, along with stuff. And he can talk about Structure. Yeah, along with stuff. And, you know, he's very,

super funny, obviously. And so stuff like that. Never looked at any Hicks? No. Bill Hicks? No, no. I watch Bill Hicks for sure, but I feel like Bill Hicks

is a very, that style is actually very hard for anyone to, for anyone to try to even attempt because he's making great jokes, great points, and he's doing it in such an easy manner. And people without that skill,

you end up being just very self-indulgent, I feel. Right, right. But there is a, what you do push, you do push people you know, you do push people, you know, in the sense that like you're going to, you know, take them to the edge. Sure, sure. And hopefully relieve it. I hope so. Yeah.

Yeah. I think that I kind of got that from Chappelle probably. Yeah. The idea of going to the edge of a long story. The, what's it called? Shaggy dog story. Yeah. Yeah.

Right. And then you, hopefully you can release it. Shaggy Dog story. Yeah, yeah. Right? And then hopefully you can release it. I think that a lot of it was also

I realized like I was for me comedy was always an expression of anger and things that frustrated me. Yeah. Right from the start.

So I won't say that that was influenced by anyone's style. That's always how I naturally just I was trying to say stuff that I was pissed off about. And I remember

I was maybe two or three years into comedy I've been doing it for you know not that long but I've been doing more shows than I was watching

so I hadn't watched a comedy show in a while as an audience member and so I remember I was maybe two or three years in and I went to go watch a comedy show

just to fucking do it and I remember sitting there and I remember feeling like man you know what these guys everyone in the audience you don't know what's going on in their lives you know some you don't know what the hell these guys are going through people here might be dealing with horrible tragedies they came here to kind of escape for a bit they're

here for you you know yeah they pay money they want to laugh and and and they i it is so dumb to say but i just gained a new empathy for the audience and so how that affected me on stage was that my my anger i used to be yelling at the crowd which which you can do for five minutes or ten minutes but an hour is like come on man so that experience of sitting and gaining empathy for the audience for me it became like oh I need to get the audience to, let's all get angry at this thing together. Let me point something out. This thing is so stupid.

It's not personal. And to the point where I don't even like to talk to the crowd if I can help it because I feel like I don't even want to put them through that. Obviously, a fun interaction is always fun or whatever. But it just became like you know what I'll give these guys the benefit of the doubt that they've

had a long day and that they're here for me even if it's not my show and so let me just you know bring you don't yell at them for it

yeah don't abuse them which I think it's a tendency sure I do it yeah like I think like performing artists with ego as we all do sometimes

we just you know we take it out on the crowd yeah when really it you know we should be bringing them on for me anyway I bring them on it and then

obviously they piss me off well I'll fucking take it on them but like but like it all comes out though like it yeah once you turn over the new leaf

and you're just gonna be an entertainer all it takes is one asshole and like an entire history of rage yeah yeah I try not to take out the whole thing and and being in control of your emotions and and having one thing about

stand-up is i feel like the more experience you get the more you you felt all these different types of energy sure right and so and because of that you're less you freak out less when you feel yeah you can feel like people don't realize it but you know you can like when the opener's on you can feel a room I mean you like just by the audience

even if it's not you like you know the difference between the rumbling of a second show crowd versus a first show crowd I mean you can feel it immediately 100%

and you can even feel specific situations like oh that table yeah that table oh this heckle is oh this is the fun heckle. They're probably not going to say it again.

Or this is the, oh, they're not going to let me continue to show energy. And you feel these different energies. And the more you felt the energies, the less you get freaked out by it. Yeah, because you can handle it. You can handle it. Yeah. And in the back of your head, maybe it's like worst case scenario. What's going to happen is that I did my work.

These guys suck. Well, what do you want me to do about it? Well, that's right. Right. Yeah, Stuart Lee What do you want me to do about it? Well, that's right. Right. Yeah, Stuart Lee talked about that with me. He had a realization that he's just not everybody's cup of tea. Yes. So if you're looking at an audience and somebody is not laughing,

as opposed to being like, what the fuck is your problem? Just realize, you should have done a little research. Right, right, right. Don't blame the audience or give them the benefit of the doubt. Well, just say like, sorry, I'm not your, you know, this is not going to work out for you. So, you know, what are you going to do? Right. But so how did you get The Daily Show?

You're working in Australia? You're making a living? So I finished law school and I did two degrees in five years. Yeah. And then I spent the next five years doing stand-up comedy. For money? For money, yeah, for money. In Australia? In Australia. two degrees in five years. Yeah. And then I spent the next five years doing stand-up comedy. And it was- For money? For money, yeah.

For money. In Australia? In Australia. And I was building, I kept getting kind of mini wins, you know, enough wins to keep me going.

Oh, you know, like I would sell out this room and then I would win this award and then I would sell out this bigger room and then I get on TV for this small thing and then, would win this award and then I would sell out this bigger room and then I get on TV for this small thing and then you get a bad review and then you sell out a bigger room.

How often did you do Edinburgh? I did it three times. I hate it every single time and I'll never go back. I love the city. Oh, no, it's beautiful. I went once and I'll never go back. But the Fringe Festival, not for me. But I respect the Fr oh no it's beautiful I went once but the Fringe Festival

not for me but I respect the Fringe Festival as a marathon and this is me I couldn't hack it so that's not the festival thing

it's me I couldn't hack it but I tried I gave it a good try and I talk about it in my second special I know I knew what you were

talking about about going back and you know again not to go in and out but that story, what I hope is that people watching that, my actual point was

the joke is that I'm angry at the UK because I couldn't hack it there. Sure. But you're also rightfully angry at critics

who don't do anything. Sure. Which is a broader point. Right, right. A broader point, yeah. I think you should be creating more than you complain.

Yeah. But, yeah, and so in Australia what happened was that I was at a point, I wasn't, I didn't have a TV vehicle at that time and I wasn't Arch Barker, but I was kind of like, not to pat myself on the back, but I was kind of like the Hannibal of Australia at that time. Not that I was as good as Hannibal, but that I had, I was doing theaters and without a TV vehicle. Right. So I was doing theaters and without a TV vehicle. Right.

So I was just gaining a live following. And then, uh, I was, you know, I could, I was being invited to just for laughs and making a living, making a living, a decent living. And, um, uh, it, uh, I got, uh, I went for just, I went to just for last one year and I did a gig with, uh, Trevor on the Eddie Izzard gala. And he, I think I was there that year because I interviewed, I did a gig with uh trevor on the eddie iza gala and he i think i was there that year because i interviewed i did a live wts with trevor and eddie it must have been that year yes yes yeah that was and then he uh trevor said very nice things about me but we you know we didn't

even exchange numbers or anything and then two years later when he got the daily show i get this um request to audition and i'm like oh this i was like this has to be trevor because right they wouldn't know otherwise and so because of that uh i auditioned i got hired and trevor was like yeah i wanted you to come on because i wanted um asian person on the show because it's a big fucking population. And I was like, damn, thanks, man. Because I'm sure he had more talented friends who he was closer to at that time when he got the show. But he said, go with this guy who, you know, we...

He just didn't have enough Asian closer friends. Yeah, he didn't. But he stuck his neck out for me. And so that contributed to my gratefulness in America. It was like, damn, everyone here gave me a shot. So by the time you come here, you're a headlining comic. In Australia. Yeah, but you had the chops.

I hope I had the chops. Of course you did. But I came with a lot of humility. And one thing was that John Oliver actually told me this. Because when I first got the job at a daily show, I went to go meet with Oliver in of humility. And one thing was that John Oliver actually told me this because when I first got the job at a daily show, I went to go meet with Oliver in his office.

And the daily show alumni is like Harvard Business School. Yeah. Like so many people, not just on camera, but off camera. And so when he heard I was correspondent,

he immediately said, yeah, come to my office at 8 a.m. before the day starts. So I went to his office and we talked and John Oliver told me that it took him two years to relearn

how to do comedy in America. And he was spot on to the day. Yeah. Because if you're a headliner in another country, you can come to America and you can kill

for 10 minutes. You can kill for 20. You might even kill for 40. But you'll be killing on the, oh, I'm not from America. This is what you can do in America. That's kind of weird.

And you can kill for that. And there's nothing wrong with that per se. But I feel like after six months, eight months, nine months of that, one year of that, the audience can kind of smell that like, wait a second, you've been here long enough this shouldn't surprise you anymore yeah and then that's when it starts to crumble and so the the the the thing that all of

us trying to tell me was i took him two years to learn enough about american culture that you could joke about it in a way which even americans can be like oh yeah someone who lives here right yeah oh yeah that's cool like we know we have a lot of guns like tell something we don't know yeah oh that's a good point and it took me two years to do that I remember when I could feel it it was literally two years

to the day no kidding and I was like damn okay I got something here where I'm joking about in the first special I'm kind of joking about America but at least I'm saying something

I hope that is is not too you know like hacky immigrant stuff so in those five years like you were from 2015 and you're doing the Daily Show,

you got a hell of a schedule and you're running around doing, you know, four or five spots a night in New York. It's a dream. It was a dream. Yeah.

It still is a dream. Yeah. Continues to be a dream to work at a Daily Show and then at night book gigs and run around Manhattan and Brooklyn

and wherever doing stand-up spots. Yeah. Is the fucking dream. You know, I watched it, Jerry Seinfeld's comedian you watch him driving

his Porsche and then go down the cellar and I'm like this dude doesn't need to work anymore like literally he could stop working

he'd be fine he's got enough money whatever and he's going out and it's just this you can't well yeah it's either in you

or it isn't and like you know I spent two years on the road doing this special, and I thought, I'll take a little break. Within three days, I was at the store. Yeah, come on, what am I going to do? What am I going to do?

What am I going to do? And there's something so great about that directness, and, you know, we don't need to talk about comedy. How does your wife handle it? No, she was like, you can't. She actually was like, you have to give me one. Like, you have to set aside at least one night a week. You can't she actually was like you have to give me like you you have to set aside

at least one night a week you can't be going every single night you've been married since 2016 yeah but I've known her since law school

so we've been together a long time so she knows you yeah she's seen the she's been through the obstacles yeah she's seen the you know

the obstacles that are still here by the way so yeah and and I've kind of like calmed down a bit in New York City and all that. But still, man, what a dream. Everyone's dream.

Everyone's always like, oh, you know, comics work hard. But it's like, we aspire to get to the point where we can get five spots a night. You know what I mean? But also, it's just that there's nothing more present than doing it. So, like, you know, it's a vital thing to our lives. Yeah. Because the immediacy of it, you know, like, especially if you work like we do, is that,

you know, every time you go on and you're not, you know, you're not, like, going from the page. You're going from your mind and your heart. Yeah. And you don't know what's going to happen exactly. Yeah. I mean, what, what else, what's going to make you feel more alive than that? Yeah.

It's a joy. It's a real joy. And, um. Took me a while to see it as a joy. Just started. Took like 30 years. Before it was just sort of like, I have to do this. Wow.

Yeah. You say that, but we all know. We all know your dirty secret, man. You love this stuff. I love this stuff. Can't get off of it. But what was your learning curve on the acting? I mean, was that just something you saw as part of it?

Still learning. Still learning. Sure. Yeah. Still learning. Yeah, still learning. And it, like, for me, first of all, it's a joy to perform and act.

So that's a primary thing. And then it was cool to be part of other people's cool projects. So, you know, in comedy, it's so much on you, obviously. The whole thing's on you. And then when you're doing acting, movies, especially when you're doing smaller roles like what I do, you're just surrendering to other people's vision. And there's something really relieving about that.

I'm just here for you. What do you want? You want this? Literally, I think comics are like, just give me the line read. I don't care. You know what I mean? I tell dick jokes in bars.

Give me the line read. All we care about is the punchline. So there was real joy in that. But then I found a secondary joy, which is quite, it's going to give you a bad impression of me as though I'm very materialistic. But there is a joy in doing standup and not having the pressure of your whole life

hanging on this gig. That's what you work for. Right. And so being able to act, which in America, you know, Hollywood to me is just another industry. Oh, I see what you're saying,

financially. Financially and profile-wise where you have the freedom to do stand-up on your terms, hopefully. Right, right. So you're saying that, you know, taking acting gigs

that are lucrative affords you, you know, more choice. Yes, yes. And for me, what I learned from Chappelle is to do stand-up comedy on your terms. Do it on your terms. I can't do it any other way.

Yeah, yeah. But very few people are able to build a fan base or pick an adventure. Right, you can do it on your terms, doesn't mean people will come. Right. So getting the people to come on your terms is a whole other thing. Yeah, and getting people to kind of buy into what you're doing and to trust you.

And I think that's one thing with stand-up comedy that is interesting is people, I think some people don't understand like that when you go see live performance, you should be surrendering to the artist's experience. Right? Yeah. performance you should be surrendering to the artist's experience right yeah and i think in america was like americans are so used to kind of like everything happening on their terms yeah i pay money this is now my i fucking i'm the boss here now and not that not that you should be abused when you go for a live performance i'm just saying that when you when you go for a live performance i think you have to surrender yourself up to the artist's experience a bit. And then you'll have a better time.

But if you go in kind of like, I'm going to like or dislike this like a TikTok video. I find that if you keep your tickets reasonable, their expectations get manageable. Yeah, yeah, exactly. That too. That too, man. You know, I like to keep a, you know, someone once told, who told me this? Like comedy shouldn't be more than 50 bucks or something,

you know, it shouldn't be more. But I get, you know, I know, you know, guys, you know,

there's certain guys who are like, oh, this is the Cash Grab 2 tour. Yeah. But, you know,

I mean, you can't begrudge them for that. I mean, sometimes you only have a certain window, you know, as a comedy.

Yeah, I'm also worried about that too. You know, if you look historically. Sure. Yeah. I'm also worried about that too. Yeah. So, you know, if you look historically. Sure.

But then you see guys who like the window was a window of, a profile window, not a ability window. So you see all these legends going on, you know,

they don't have TV vehicles and they're just touring. But they have audiences. Yeah. They just churn out that new hour every year. Some of them have like, you know,

like Regan. And I'm sure he's great. Oh, of course. But like Regan does a big business with the Mormons. Yeah. Like, you know, like every year it's a big nut. Yeah. Playing in an arena in Salt Lake City.

Exactly. Three, four nights. But that's what I'm talking about. Like, you know, I call it like the quietly selling out arenas. Yeah. Well, I'm just, but it's still, that's never been, I don't think that's ever been my goal. And like, I don't know. And there's some part of me that,

you know, like, I don't want that many people to like me. Sure. I don't know why. Well, you're counter-cultural. I get, well, I know, but it's not like an intentional.

A borderline self-destructive, but counter-cultural. Yeah, it's not, it's not intentional. It's just like, you know, I think I'm, you know, it's just, you know, I believe I can entertain anybody. Yeah. But ultimately, I can't be think I'm, you know, it's just, you know, I believe I can entertain anybody.

Yeah. But ultimately, I can't be something I'm not. Sure. So my people, there's going to be a ceiling. Sure. On my people, you know, I think. I think you're putting a ceiling on yourself. Okay.

But yes. But no, no. Do you have a book I can read? Tony Robbins. But the broader, I think the deeper point you're making is that I think that's what makes a great comic is when you're willing to be like, hey, I'm not for everyone.

You know what I mean? And I feel that way too. I'm like, hey, I'm not for everyone. I am not for everyone and I constantly try to say that to people that I'm not for everyone.

Like, you know, I did a line where I said, I'm not for everyone. I'm barely for me. Yeah, that's great. Yeah. But that, I think that's what comics,

you gotta, like that's why great comedy comes from not being from everyone, right? Yeah, that's great. Yeah, but that, I think that's what comics, you gotta, like that's why great, great comedy comes from not being from everyone, right? Yeah, and it's one of the reasons why I can't stand,

you know, some of what's happening and sort of the tribalism of comedy. It's like, I didn't get in this to hang out with a bunch of guys.

I don't know, you know what I mean? I didn't get in this so we could all be like, we're doing the same thing. Sure, sure, sure.

But I don't know, again, on our all be like, we're doing the same thing. Sure. But whatever. But I don't know. Again, on our point of difference, I feel like for me, it's more like, I just feel like if you do stand-up comedy, you get the struggle so much. Of course. You can empathize with some other person who's doing it. Believe me.

But it's sometimes like, you know, it's more about like when I go to the comedy store, I've talked to so many people. It's just like the guys that follow the wayside. You know, it's so, like, the heartbreak of it and the inability, you know, because I was so close to that. And the inability to, you know, after a certain point, what are you going to go back to, man? It's heavy, dude. Like, the risk of life it takes to do this doesn't come from a choice.

It comes from a calling. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's crazy. Yeah, it is crazy. And now, like, I mean, that's how we're able to talk

for so long. We never met each other. Yeah. And we're able to talk because we both share the obsession. Well, that's, this thing started

me talking to comics. It was always me talking to comics, usually trying to make sure we were okay. Right, right. So how do you feel, if I ask you a question, like when you, do you like look at younger comics and do you, are you inclined to kind of

maybe not like what they're doing? And then do you feel like you have to like curb yourself as like, oh, maybe I'm just. No, I mean, like what I do know is I don't, it's not a matter of liking what people do really. I mean, I get it. Like I've been doing this for 40 years. Yes.

So or so, 37. So like what I noticed more than anything else is not unlike, you know, Comedia Della Arte. There's like 12 types and, and, you know, they repeat themselves. Yes. Like, you know, I can see, like, I can see, you know, not, not necessarily points of view, but types of people that show up and I've seen them before. And I see people doing jokes that have been done many times before, but they just discovered them. Not that they took them.

Yes, yes. No, I know exactly what you mean. Yeah. So, like, and, you know, and I have room for that. And I'm not going to step in. I never, you know, comment on anybody. Yes. Like, but I do know when somebody means it and when they don't.

Right. Like, I mean, if there's any issue I have is if somebody's using our world to launch into another world, I find that, you know, a little difficult. And then I also find, you know, a certain type of ego difficult, but I understand it. So I'm not harsh and I'm not really up to speed with a lot of the younger comics, but I do notice more than not, I notice people that can't help, but be who they are as, as being interesting to me. Sure. So what you're saying is there's a natural urge to when you've been doing it a long time to kind of you've seen it all and dismiss newer kids.

Well, I hope they get through it. It's not dismiss. But it's just sort of like, all right, well, they're at, you know, I hope they, you know, either they're going to develop or they're not. Right, right. But you do see an authenticity in comedy. Even if you don't like them, you don't like the actor,

you say, oh, this is a 12-bit, but you can see, oh, there's something here. There's something here. Yeah, or even if it's like, it's not for me, I don't get it, but I understand it, and I know when people have put their work in, you know, and I respect that. And the reason I ask this is because,'m at the age where I'm only 37 but I'm kind of young enough but just

experienced enough to see that the older crowd kind of reacting to the younger crowd and the younger comics and this new technology and all that. So I just wondered is it just the fate of all comics to grow up and hate everything new, every new comic and all that. So I just wondered is it just the fate

of all comics to grow up and hate everything new, every new comic? No, no. I don't have any hate for them. Oh, I didn't mean you. I just mean Jeff.

But I don't notice that really. You can't stop age. The fact that somehow or another I have an audience and found my audience when I was in my 40s is a miracle. And I don't know what it is.

I think it's just I have a type of neuroticism or anger or sensitivity. And honesty. And honesty that's relatively timeless to certain people. So I'm grateful that I'm still relevant to an audience and that it happened late in life. But there's a lot of guys my age that let themselves go. They don't continue writing or they just fall to the wayside and they don't understand why they don't fit in anymore.

And that's just, you know, it's the nature of the business. The only old guys are working are guys that were fucking huge or have their own followings. There's like hundreds of comics that were popular in the 70s, 80s, and 90s that do not fit in anymore. And it's not because of TikTok. Yes, yes, yes. You know what I mean? It's just they aged out, man. Yes, yes, yes.

What are you going to do? Yeah, yeah. And isn't it so interesting that the legend, Steve Martin, the great legend, he, by his own account, I don't even necessarily agree with him, but by his own account,

he said he could see it. Of course. He could see it aging on. And so he stopped. And became an actor. Yeah. Yeah. But what, you know, what self-awareness, not that I even agree with his assessment, you

know, that he couldn't have evolved or that, you know, but he, that's how much. But he didn't, he was done with life. Like he was, he felt misunderstood. It's like a, you know, it's like a band that's counter-cultural and all of a sudden you got frat boys coming. Sure. Like, the expectations were peculiar. But now he's back on stage.

He's doing something with Martin Short. Now he is. And he's just waiting for Godot and, like, you know, all this stuff. But I just mean, at that time, the biggest comic in the world. Well, I mean, to have that kind of confidence and knowledge about your own talent and your own limitations is rare. And also to roll the dice on that, to take what was your livelihood. But, you know, he was popular enough to take those chances. Not everyone is afforded that luxury.

Sure, sure. No, of course, of course. No, I just find it interesting that the idea of culturally through no one's fault, just you're not fit with the times anymore, you know, whatever it is. No, I mean, I see it in myself to some degree. And, you know, in light of our conversation here, like, I don't want you to misunderstand me. I don't have anything against comics. No, no, I don't think so.

And I'm not, and I don't judge. I was asking this question, you more as an old person. I'm talking about later. Oh, yes. About earlier. It's just like, you know, when I'm judging or I just feel in relation to that conversation so I can at least be clear for myself is that, look, I have nothing but utmost respect for almost anybody that does this job and does it successfully. That's it. But there are lines being drawn and I have to react to them.

Sure. And it's not personal. Yeah. Maybe with a couple of people, but that doesn't mean I don't respect their process. Sure. Sure, sure. I can get behind that. But the aging is like, I feel it in myself. It's like, look, at some point.

Also, I think you've earned the right to do that, by the way. Yeah, to some degree. I'll say it for you so you don't have to. I think you have. Well, I appreciate it. But I know between me and me, I see where my ceiling is in terms of like I do okay. I was fortunate to do my fifth or sixth special, whatever the fuck it is, and it's on HBO and it's fine. And it's good.

It's the best work I've done. But there is part of me at age 59 where I'm like, you know, I've kind of done everything. I put a lot out there. I've said my piece. I put a lot out there. Yes, sir. I've said my piece. Yes, sir. So, like, I find myself starting to try to find some peace with changing my expectation.

Sure. As you should. And that's all legit. Yeah, that's natural. It doesn't mean like. It's healthy, by the way. That's healthy. It's not like I'm aged out.

I'm no longer relevant anymore. But it's like, dude, like, you know, you want to have a little try to figure out how to enjoy whatever life you've earned here and you know take it try to be less hard on yourself of course because like i do it every time like every fucking hour that i produce takes a year and a half two years and you don't even think like every time you start you're like i don't even know if i got it yes you know because especially if you work like us, because it's not like you got a bunch on the docket. Yes. It's just sort of like,

I got to start at this thing again. Yes, yes, yes, yes. And I don't know what's going to happen. Yes, yes. It's wild. It is wild, yeah.

A hundred percent, yeah. But it's not something I do for business. It's just something I do. Yeah, yeah. But now like I'm- But isn't that good that you can work

at your own pace? Yes. I mean- You're not pressured to fit the media's press schedule of one year or whatever. You can take two years to do a special. I mean, you're not pressured to fit the media's press schedule of one year or whatever.

You can take two years to do a special. Of course, but I've always worked at my own pace, but it doesn't mean I'm not hard on myself. Yes, yes, yes.

You know, sometimes it's like it's better to have a deadline that's limiting than sort of like, oh, fuck. If I don't do this, I'm going to disappear.

Yeah, yeah. I guess, no, yeah, 100%. Everything you said sounds perfectly fine. Legit, I agree with it. So where are you at with, what are you doing out here now? What's this new movie? I didn't watch it. Don't worry about it.

Megan. Don't worry about it. I just did this movie. It went pretty well. You got a big part? Reasonably big part. Probably my biggest part in a movie. It's popular, though.

People like it, right? Yeah, people got behind it. I'm really happy. It's an indie film we did it in New Zealand you would love the director tortured artist brilliant

it's a horror movie it's a horror but it's satirical it's more of a dark comedy oh really yeah I gotta watch it

yeah and I talked to the guy from The Legend of the Ten Rings oh Simu? Yeah. Oh, you did?

Yeah, it was great. Oh, he was here, right? Yeah. I know you spoke to Jimmy O. Yang. He's my guy. O. Yang, I talked to a long time ago. Yang's a character. He's a character.

Yeah, he's super fun. And he and I, I love Simu. I love Jimmy. Jimmy is interesting because he came from Hong Kong when he was 13 to America without speaking any English. And so he actually came to America very late, but he assimilated very quickly. Whereas me, I came from Singapore and I already probably have more English

and Americanisms than Jimmy. But we've gone in two separate ways in that. I feel like for me, I'm more trying to not become American, but comment on America. And he's like driving Jeeps. I'm going to, you know,

it's funny though. It's a funny thing about him. He's like, I'm doing it. I'm living it. He's super American. Yeah. In a cool way.

Yeah. In a fun way. Yeah. He's got a very specific point of view. I like that guy. How's he doing? You talk to him? Yeah.

I'm working with him right now. That's what I'm in LA for. I'm filming, uh, I'm filming a TV show for Hulu. Taika is directing it. So that's been cool. What is that? It's called

Interior Chinatown. It's based on a book. I think you would like the book. It's by Charles Yi, probably the smartest writer in Hollywood. He wrote this book.

It's a very meta story about background characters in a svu type show law and order type show and so we're the background characters and we don't know we're in a tv show oh okay in it and we keep you know um the characters keep questioning how come we're the background asians and we were always doing yeah you know and then the the main characters are always given the spotlight but we're always in the back like doing dumb shit doing you know and then the main characters are always given the spotlight but we're always in the back like doing dumb shit

and you know so like in the background there's white guys doing things no no in the foreground in the foreground that's what I mean

it's the show oh yeah sorry yeah yeah it's Law and Order type show and then we're the extras in the back but we don't know

we're in a show we're just like why are we like why are we always yeah Yeah, it's very clever and very difficult to execute, if you can imagine. And Taika's directing it? Taika's directing the pilot.

The pilot, yeah. He's doing great shit. I love that Reservation Dogs, and I was fortunate enough to get cast on an episode of that. I love Sterling and what Taika's doing. I've never met Taika, and we've not talked. I imagine he knows who I am. He came from stand-up comedy, too, in New Zealand. So he knows... Yeah, I think he's doing. I've never met Taika and we've not talked. I imagine he knows who I am. He came from stand-up comedy too

in New Zealand. So he knows. Yeah, I think he's great. Yeah, and I've kind of like hinted at trying to get him, but I can't get him in here. I don't know what the hell to do. Sure, I'll mention it.

I can't know who he is. I'll be like, hey, Mark. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll just mention it. You'll bully him a little. It's great talking to you, pal. No, thanks so much for having me. It's real, you know, this is a real honor.

You're very well respected and I appreciate you. Oh, thanks. Like what I'm putting out there. You know, I think when you do stand-up comedy, what you really want is you just want people in the room to laugh and you also want your peers to think you're okay. So you're the ultimate comedy peer. Well, thank you.

Thank you for- And I think you're doing great work. And also we want to blow minds. We want to blow minds, don't we? Yes, we do. Trying to blow some minds. Thanks, pal. Thanks.

Okay, there you go. Intense guy, right? The History of the World Part Two is now streaming on Hulu and Megan is streaming on Peacock. You can watch Ronnie's two stand-up specials, Speak Easy and Asian Comedian Destroys America on Netflix. Hang out for a second, will you? Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means.

I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Discover the timeless elegance of cozy, where furniture meets innovation. Designed in Canada, the Sofa Collections are not just elegant, they're modular, designed to adapt and evolve with your life. Reconfigure them anytime for a fresh look or a new space.

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if you want to be up to speed when we have director Jason Wollner on the show next week, go watch Paul T. Goldman on Peacock. Tomorrow on The Full Marin, we'll be doing an Oscar special, not really predictions about the Oscars, but more about what exactly are the Oscars. And then we've also got something planned for you this Friday around the Oscars.

If you want to sign up for The Full Marin, go to the link in the episode description or go to WTFpod.com and click on WTF+. You'll get weekly bonus episodes plus access to every episode of WTF ad-free. to every episode of WTF ad-free. On Thursday, I talk with director Bobby Farrelly about Boston and all the movies he made with his brother and his new movie with Woody Harrelson, Champions. I just did some basic punk rock because I was working on a lick, but I don't have time.

I didn't have time. You know, sometimes I spend, you know, like an hour on those fucking licks. They don't just come out of me. For those of you who don't think I'm a skilled guitar player, I work on those sloppy fucking riffs. Okay, here we go. Thank you. guitar solo Thank you. ¶¶ Boomer lives. Monkey and Lafonda. Cat angels everywhere.

Sorry, I had to go basic.