WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1439 - Vir Das

Episode Date: May 29, 2023

Vir Das doesn’t worry about fitting in. He was born in India, grew up in Nigeria, went to school in America, lived and worked in Europe, and now lives back in his country of origin. Vir talks with Marc about wanting his comedy and acting to appeal to a global community, a goal that was met with some resistance in 2021 when he performed a monologue called “Two Indias” in Washington, DC. They talk about the fallout from that performance, the right wing push in India, and Vir’s experience in Bollywood films. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Lock the gates! All right, let's do this. How are you, what the fuckers? What the fuck buddies? What the fucknics? What the fucksters? What the fuckadelics? How's Knicks? What the fucksters? What the fuckadelics? How's it going? I'm Mark Maron. This is my podcast WTF. Welcome to it. If you're new here,

I feel like every once in a while people are new and it's important to welcome them to the fold or welcome them to the episode or welcome them as a fan of my guest. So, uh, hang out, have a seat, say hi to the regulars. Hey, if you do live in Los Angeles or you're going to be around, or you want to make a special trip to watch me ramble, I'll be at Largo on Thursday, June 8th, uh, for a standup show and Friday, July 1st, for the music and stand-up show. I'll be a Dynasty typewriter on Saturday, June 10th, and also on Saturday, June 24th, for stand-up ramblings, to kind of go over the stuff, to share what's happening in my mind,

to move through some ideas, see if I can get any jokes. I've been enjoying the jokes lately. I've been enjoying kind of just doing a kind of laid back groove and seeing how the words work on their own without any pressure to do anything. I'm in a zone right now where I'm like, hey, if I don't do another special ever, fine. I'm just going to enjoy whatever craft that I put together for myself since 1987. Wow. Today on the show, I talked to Veer Das. He's a comedian from India.

He's well known in India for both his comedy and his roles in popular films. And here in the U.S., you can see his stand-up specials on Netflix. And here in the U S you can see a standup specials on Netflix and he's also on tour this summer, but you might've heard about a thing he did back in 2021 when he did a monologue called two Indias, uh, at the Kennedy center in Washington, DC started a little controversy. We'll get into that. I watched the specials and I enjoyed it. So I had an interesting few days, I believe. And I've been thinking about what makes me, me, not in a weird self-centered way, just in, in, in terms of a getting older way. Cause I feel like I'm on the precipice of actually tipping into a different

time in my life. I'm not saying I'm not going to say old or that I'm over the hill or anything, but as I've mentioned before, some things are dissipating. There's some, uh, fuck's not given that are happening and it's okay. I think it comes with, with getting older. If you're lucky enough to get older. And also I've just been thinking about my job, about what I do, not just stand up, but this, and just how far I am from the average person's experience. How, cause Kit, my girlfriend is in the work world and it's difficult. It's difficult every day for so many people that, that have to do things that they really don't want to do, uh, to get by and to sort of sustain their life and to sort of have a life. And I need to check myself and make sure I empathize with that situation. Look, I spent a lot of years struggling in a lot of ways and in a lot of different, on a lot of different levels.

But I've managed to find a level that's working, but my struggle was never the struggle of doing something I didn't want to do because I had no choice. So I've been thinking about my job, choice. So I've been thinking about my job, about my jobs, primarily standup, podcast personality, broadcaster, actor, and just thinking about different parts of my personality. Like the, the one that's come into question, I'll try to explain it to you. Cause I don't, I don't consider myself a pathological narcissist. I believe that my father probably was and is at times, but what does it really mean? I mean, you know, pathological narcissists are kind of rare and it's a disturbing disposition that lacks empathy and conscience and self-reflection. Now, that is not me, but I have elements of narcissism that I've been thinking

about because I think it actually serves me and my job. And I think everybody has a certain amount of selfishness if they're successful in what they do or they're just trying to get by. There's a certain amount of necessary delusion, necessary denial, and sort of necessary self-centeredness to just forge on on a day-to-day basis. But I have this moment where I started to think about other people in my life that I can feel connected to somebody fairly quickly. And I don't know what it's based on. I don't know if it's based on a reality, if there really is a connection or it's something that my brain is making up. And the reason I'm talking about this is that a guy came into my life again recently.

And it just it shed some light on, on something, you know, this kid, I've known this kid, uh, Alan, uh, I'll just use his first name since he, I think since he was probably eight or 10 years old, his family and my family were friends when we were growing up. He's about six years younger than me. And I knew him and his younger sister and his parents. I used to work for his father in a clothing store that his father owned. But I just knew he's a kid. I knew, like, I feel like my whole life we'd been through some stuff. You know, he started doing comedy when he was like 17 or 18.

And, you know, and I was doing comedy at that point. And then he kind of, I think, realized that he didn't really have what it took to kind of stay in the game. And then his life kind of like went different directions. And I'd see him here and there in different degrees of crisis at times. And I threw him a line when he was in New York and I moved him up to, I told him to move up to Boston and live in my house to get out of the fray of potential problems. And then I never, I just kind of lost touch with the kid, but this is a

guy I knew when he was a kid and I knew him well. And I know his being, which is really what it comes down to his being. Like I was connected to this guy emotionally as a friend and as, you know, as a person. And, you know, he started doing comedy. I just, you know, when you know somebody in a kind of deep way, a soul way, for whatever reason, you know, usually it's somebody, you know, when you're younger or you just, you have a connection to somebody or they're part of your life for a period of time. And then you just, you lose touch for whatever reason. And I'd heard bits and pieces of, about this kid from, from here and there, but not much. And I knew that his life, you know, didn't really go easy and, and, you know, had difficulties.

Uh, you know, he got married. I heard he had a kid, but I heard he was selling mattresses. There was different points, uh, of time. And, and recently, you know, he reached out and he's living here, not far away from me. And I don't think I've really seen the guy, you know, for like 20 years, uh, more, probably more. And I'm telling you, man, you know, this guy was Mishpulka. This guy was family in, in a deep way. And it was kind of, I said, look, man, cause he said he was kind of poking around doing comedy now a little bit and he's living up in San Berdue and he's got a job up there

and I was a little nervous. I was like, look, man, why don't you come down? We'll go to the comedy store. We'll hang out. We'll catch up. I had no idea what to expect because I'd heard rough things, like things that got rough for him and that happens to everybody. We all go through rough patches and,

and sometimes we don't surface, you know, you know, people in your life, they, they, they get out in the weeds and, and, and they don't come back really, or not totally, or not fully, or, you know, they come back and, and, and something, they get hard, man. I mean, that's the scary thing, right? Is that you know somebody, you know somebody well, they're like family and you don't see them for a while and something has, a light has gone out. Something has calcified in their soul. Something has made them hard, has broke their spirit,

has made them hard, has broke their spirit, has made them fundamentally a different person because they no longer have access to the openness or to the optimism or to the excitement of life ahead of them. Something has fizzled out and it's heartbreaking. them. Something has fizzled out and it's heartbreaking. And I didn't know what to expect because, you know, look, I've been through some shit and you don't know, you know, I'm sure many of you in whatever life you're living has been on the precipice of losing a chunk of who you are because life fucking broke you, man. Life crushed you and you can't uncrush it and you can't move forward carrying the crush, the crushing. And you live in reaction to that.

And you live in reaction to that. You live in the shadow of your broken spirit. And you may not be able to do anything about that. And that's just life for a lot of us, at least for periods of time. So this kid, Alan, he's not a kid anymore. He's in his 50s. Like he comes over and, you know, and I saw him and I got very emotional. I fought back tears. I don't know why I decided to do that.

Why I didn't let them happen. Because right when I saw the guy, I was like, he's not, he's not hard. You know, he's not, it didn't break him. you know, he's not, it didn't break him. Like I saw the kid I always knew in there and he wasn't that far from the surface. You know, it was all intact no matter what his life was. I mean, it may not be going well in his mind or it may, you know, he might've had other, you know, whatever. I was totally anticipating a guy that was lost, that lost himself. And whether he thinks he did or not, I saw the kid I always knew and I felt the emotional connection we always had. And I was thrilled to see it and reconnect and have those emotional

feelings. And over the course of the evening, we both kind of acknowledged him and had them and we caught up. He had been following my life a little bit and then he filled me in on his difficult, um, things, but he wasn't unable to find humor in it and he wasn't able to find, you know,

goodness in it. And, uh, yeah, it'd been hard, but he's okay. But the, the fundamental thing is that thing,

that fire, that thing, whatever we were connected, however we were connected when we were kids or younger was still totally intact and it didn't erase time. But I realized something in that moment that I can have that feeling about people in my life, you know, people, contemporaries of mine, people that, you know, I was doing comedy with early in my life where like my emotional, because of whatever inability to compartmentalize or lack of boundaries or strange upbringing I had that made me emotionally needy, I would latch on and connect to people very deeply, fairly quickly, and without them

maybe even knowing it. So I was asking myself, well, is it narcissistic in the way that a lot of these guys that I've known my whole life, but I don't talk to for years and years and we're not friends. I don't get invited to weddings. I don't get invited to dinners, but like, you know, people I started in comedy with who I feel I hold them in my mind and in my heart, uh, as the person I knew when I first, you know, began a friendship with that person or a relationship with that person. And I keep them in that place in my mind and in my heart. And that doesn't lack empathy. But when, when I, I feel like they're part of me, that part of who they were is part of me. And I expect that they're going to be that way the whole time. And I, I approached them like, you know, we're, we're

bonded forever. And a lot of people just move on with their life. But because of that, I think even people that I've only met once or twice or don't know very well, they come on this show. And I have these deep emotional connections because I feel like they're part of me because of something that may have happened 20 years ago. And I haven't even talked to them. But I think it's sort of the key to what I do here. Because I believe I know people, but it's not in some sort of parasocial interaction way. I know that we're not friends. I know that they're not talking directly to me when they're in a movie, but I really make these assumptions that they're sort of part of me. They're not an extension of me, but they are connected to me. And I kind of move

into things with that assumption almost immediately. And then I kind of adapt to whoever they've become or whoever they are. It's helped me. I'm not even sure it's pathological. The point is it was very emotionally gratifying and moving that, you know, that, you know, this guy and I, who I hadn't seen, you know, 20 some odd years, maybe 30 years, you know, the connection was still, you know, very alive and very strong. And I don't know how often I'll see him, but I was just, um, it was moving to me. And now I just have to stay engaged if that's what I want to do. But it's so weird, man, getting older or just having a life where, you know, friends come and go. Sometimes you have falling out with people and sometimes you don't even know why. And, you know, that's happened recently. A friend of mine

has just, you know, completely shut me out of his life. And, you know, I don't know if we were close or what, but I don't know what that means as you get older. Usually when you're really close with somebody, it goes way back as you get older. I mean, you make new friends and stuff, but those way back ones are the ones that are kind of a constant. They are part of your emotional fabric. And this kid, Alan, he looked up to me and he saw me through all my different phases of comedy, one way or the other, certainly early on.

But he hadn't seen me recently. doesn't have cable and what whatever but he came to the comedy store and uh he watched me do two sets and after the second set he goes i don't get it man when did you become likable how did that even happen how did that even happen you're likable now it's crazy and uh i took that as a compliment you know why wouldn't i right it was really a exciting moving kind of weekend and in the life you know that's all so Vir Das, he's got US tour dates throughout the summer. You can go to, uh, to virdas.in. That's I N like India, Vir Das, like V I R D A S. You can check out his tour dates there. Also check out his specials on Netflix. His most recent one is called Landing. And, uh, it was nice meeting this guy. It was nice talking to him.

And it was nice watching him work on the television. This is me and Vir Das hanging out. Almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats. But meatballs, mozzarella balls, and arancini balls? Yes, we deliver those. Moose? No. But moose head? Yes. Because that's alcohol, and we deliver that too. Along with your favorite restaurant food, groceries, and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now.

For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. Death is in our air. This year's most anticipated series, FX's Shogun, only on Disney+. We live and we die.

We control nothing beyond that. An epic saga based on the global best-selling novel by James Clavel. To show your true heart is to risk your life. When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive. FX's Shogun. A new original series, streaming February 27th, exclusively on Disney+. 18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply.

You don't live here, right? No, man. Mumbai and then a little town called Goa, which is right outside Mumbai. You don't have a place in New York? No. No? No. Mumbai.

Mumbai. And then like a 45-minute flight away from Mumbai is like a little beach town. And that's where you live? Yeah. That's where you get the sand? That's where I get the sand. That's where you get the sand you carry around the world? Well, one little Ziploc bag of sand that I carry around the world. Oh, so you don't, it's, but don't you have to decide how much sand you're going to need

for the number of gigs you have to do? Well, it was, for the special, we carried a specific amount. Right. But then, you actually cannot, it was, for the special, we carried a specific amount. Right. But then, you actually cannot take that much sand across the world, because it's illegal. What is the legality, what is the law about sand? Well, I think it's, you can carry, like, probably like a little mini Ziploc bag about that much. But then, for this special, because there were four guys coming in from India

I had to get them all to get sand like it's like it's contraband like it's like it's drugs and then we joined our sand

you did? you got it all together? because you needed what did you do? four shows? two shows? I filmed two yeah

alright so you needed a bit of sand I liked the sand I didn't know where the sand bit was going yeah but I knew it had to be touching I knew I sand. I didn't know where the sand bit was going. Yeah.

But I knew it had to be touching. I knew I didn't, I didn't think it was some gimmick. They kept cutting back to the sand. There'd be these closeups of the sand. Yeah. And then at the end we get the sand. Well, that was me on the edit. So yeah.

So I kept trying to, just in case you forgot. You put sand on the ground. Yeah. I just wanted to keep checking in. In case you missed the gigantic set, which was in every shot. Yeah. But you did wait till the end to just explain it and then pay it off, right? Yeah.

I watched that special. I watched some of the bits and pieces of the other ones. I watched the two Indias. But it's interesting. I'm just in a world now at my age where i don't know uh i don't know you kids i don't know well 43 so it's good to be called a kid thank you for that but like you know i i had heard about you and then i'm like you know he's got four fucking specials on that how do i not know him you just get to a point where i don't i can't know everybody do you know you and me have met before but like very very fleetingly? Oh, here we go. What did I do? No, you were nice.

Okay, good. So it was at the Improv. Here? Yeah, on Melrose. Oh, I'm hardly ever there. So when was that? Maybe like five years ago, six years ago. So I just started working in the States.

Yeah. And I think they'd given me like my first solo night in the main room. Yeah. Right? And then I think you and your band were playing like the later show

or something? Oh, I was playing it was one of those shows where I can't Greg Barrett or somebody they used to host a show where you tell a story

and play a song. Yeah. Right. I remember. Yeah. I remember that. So you were upstairs in the green room

just tuning a guitar. Right. And I think you were tuning like a Strat or something like that. That's possible. And I went up there and I just got guitar. Right. And I think you were tuning like a Strat or something like that. Yeah, that's possible. And I went up there and I just got undone. Yeah.

And we just very fleetingly looked at each other and you were like, that's a lot of Indian people. And I was like, that's a nice guitar. And then we just both left because we had stated facts. And that's when we last saw each other. Well, that's an interesting thing to me. I have to be careful because I forever live in some shame for how I interviewed Mindy Kaling. Oh, yeah?

Yeah. Because I have this fascination with India, but it's very shallow. Okay, sure. It's really based on colors and food. Okay, sure. But I've always wanted to go, but I'm afraid to go. It's really based on colors and food. Okay, sure. But I've always wanted to go, but I'm afraid to go. But isn't it a little, I mean, my fascination on America is based on Van Wilder and Game of Thrones, right, when I show up.

So it's equally shallow at some level, right? I guess so. But I always feel like I should know more, and I know it was colonized and there's tension, and the thing with Pakistan is not great, even though you share some breads. We're the same people, essentially. But I always feel like if you're going to talk about wanting something or being interested in something, you should activate that interest. Yeah, sure. I mean, you'd fit right in. Oh, really? In India? If you showed up, you'd fit right in oh really in India

if you showed up you'd fit right in I promise you you're kind of like you're chill you know what I mean maybe I mean I don't know

if I'm chill I'd be a little panicky I'd be scared I would get sick that's the other thing about India is like people go it's great

you're gonna get sick for like seven days but after that you're gonna have a really nice time well it depends on what you do right

so don't show up and like fucking go straight to the street vendor and eat that shit, right? Meet an Indian, go to their fucking house, have a home-cooked meal first. Get your body ready. Acclimated? Acclimated a little bit. But I produced a comedy festival some years ago, and I had six LA comics come down, right?

Okay. They showed up with peanut butter in their suitcases. Who? Who was this? Who were these comics? They were like come down, right? Okay. They showed up with peanut butter in their suitcase. Who? Who's this? Who are these comics? They were like Laugh Factory comics. Okay. I would probably know them.

But they were nervous. So they brought me in. They were super nervous. So they brought food. And I'm like, we have fucking bread. That's definitely true. That's one of the best things you guys have. It's those breads. And peanut butter.

And within one day, these guys had abandoned everything in their suitcase and were eating anything and everything. Right. And they didn't get sick. They didn't get sick. No. It depends. I would say Mumbai, Delhi, all the big cities, you're going to be just fine. Yeah?

Yeah. Well, but what also struck me is that I'm watching the specials and there's a lot of materials definitely not for me. I know. Yeah. And I don't mind it. Yeah. But it makes me go like, I wish I got that joke. But I had a realization this morning that you're not really, you're not trying to, you know, get over on America really. No. And that you are performing

for Indians. Yeah. But you are something that most Americans aren't and I am not either. You're sort of a global citizen. I definitely, that's definitely the goal, at least. I don't know if I'm there yet. Yeah. What would it take? I don't know. I did 29 countries last year.

So in that sense, touch wood, it's going well. But no, I think there is like a palatable version of like the Indian who exists in America. And that's been part of your- Who would that be as a comic? Like, I think Hasan Minhaj would be that. And like for fiction, maybe Mindy Kaling would be, you know, that's the universe that you exist in. But I certainly don't belong in that universe. Because you don't try to be.

No, I don't. I don't. I have an authentic voice, you know? And for years, this accent has been the punchline in that comedic world. Sure. You know, it's my conservative Indian dad, and then they do my accent. Yeah. And that's what gets the laugh.

But it's funny because those two, those two examples are ambitiously craving American acceptance. I think so. I think so. You know, so that like, you know, they are not, I don't think they deny their ethnicity, but they, you know, they are both focused

on the American prize. Well, yes, but also because what other audience do they go for? You know, it's not like the billion people that live in India

are watching the Mindy Kaling show on Netflix, right? Yeah. We release seven movies a weekend in India are watching the Mindy Kaling show on Netflix, right? We release seven movies a weekend in India. So we have shit to watch. You know what I'm saying? We're kind of busy in that sense. You seem busy in every sense

over there. It seems very busy. The country and you. It's a hell of an energy. It really is. Yeah, I can't imagine. I think that's one of the reasons why I'm attracted to it. So, in essence, you're saying that you're completely encultured Indian without any desire to be different. It was just a matter of bringing all Indians together, in a sense, even American Indians. I think so. And also, I got taught it

the hard way, right? Like, the first few years you start touring the world, you're trying to, you know, cater a little bit. So you're trying to do a pander, you mean, pander a little bit. Yeah, sure. Like, so what is the what do Americans think about Indians? And let me do five jokes about Quick Marts and Apu and et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And then like a Netflix comes along and a YouTube comes along and you realize, oh shit, they're watching stuff. So now. Everybody is. Everybody is. So that shtick where Americans don't know anything about outside America, that's not really valid anymore. They're watching a bunch of shit. So it kind of becomes more important to do you

and to take them someplace else. It's almost more, I don't know the word democratic, but it's authentically inclusive. I think so. So what happens is despite them knowing or not, they're learning about other cultures in an honest way. I don't know anything, Mark, about Ohio, right? I've never been to Ohio. You can go. Sure. But like if I watch a Chappelle special, he's talking about it, right?

I don't know his name. Well, Chappelle's Ohio. I own a town. No, I know. They're all very grateful. And my neighbor and me are fighting or whatever. But I'll still go, right? Sure.

On that journey. Sure. Knowing nothing. Of course. So why can't I take you back to Mumbai? Yeah. Do I have to talk to you about the Indian in Ohio or the Indian in New Jersey? No, no, I get it.

I think that going to Mumbai is fine with me. But, you know, there's some things that, not unlike Ohio, which is not a great example, that I'm really never going to understand because it's about growing up there. But to me, it harks back to like the, remember the George Lopez specials where there were certain things that were just for his people? For Mexicans. Yeah, yeah. No, for sure. Yeah.

I mean, I love watching it. I mean, because to me, it's exciting that there are other voices and there are large communities that are being represented because, you know, when I read about the history of comedy and the history of my people, the European Jew, that, you know,

one of the ways that they sought to assimilate and also to strengthen their communities within the assimilation was through performing and boxing and a lot of other stuff.

It's kind of interesting. Jewish boxing? There were Jewish boxers in the 20s, a lot of them. Wow. Yeah, I mean. That's not something I've ever heard before. Well, that's right, because we all have stereotypes. Yeah.

Yeah, but there were some pretty tough Jews around. Nice, man. Yeah, come on. James Caan was a tough Jew. He's always my go-to example for a tough Jew. Look at Israel, full of tough Jews. I'm scared of them. And so a lot of Goa where I live, it's this tiny beach town, right?

And Goa is just full of foreigners. And it's kind of like this hippie, you know, haven from across the world. They come. Yeah. And so it's a lot of Russians and a lot of ex-Mossad. Really? Who are just the toughest fucking guys on the planet. They really are.

They're just hanging out? They're just hanging out. And someone says, like, those guys. They used to be the massage. And don't fuck with them. So has that town been a hippie town since back in the day? It has. Oh, really?

So you got the first influx of meditation-seeking hippies in the late 60s, mid-60s? The quote-unquote find-yourself people. They came. Because you talk about it in that act a bit. Yeah. Did they stay? They stayed. So there's parts of Goa, like really north, where there are hippie communes and beaches and stuff like that.

But with several generations, you're talking like there's some old-ass hippies, like some 80-year-old hippies? Yeah. My wife has a Tai Chi teacher who's like a German hippie called Martin. Yeah. Who's 82 and comes and teaches us Tai Chi. But you know he's done every drug

under the planet. Sure. And I think he, his big claim to fame is he brought karate to Goa in the 70s. Yeah.

You know. Yeah. So, do you do Tai Chi? I don't. I watch my wife do it and don't understand it. You don't understand it?

No. I need something that moves quicker. Yeah. Well, I mean for exercise, right? Yeah. But Tai Chi, yeah, I talked to Laurie Anderson. I think I get it. Yeah?

Yeah, I do. I think you're holding energy. You're moving it around. I did. You got to believe me. I did one lesson and he's like, I don't feel like you're moving slow enough. Yeah. You got to tap into the Chi thing.

It's a universal energy. Did you grow up with spirituality? No. Religion? Nothing? I grew up, so I was born in India, but then we left for Africa. So I was actually raised in Lagos, Nigeria. Really? Yeah. So when I was two months old, my dad got a job. In Nigeria? In Nigeria. What's your dad do? My dad is a businessman. He's a consultant. But What's your dad do? My dad is a businessman. He's a consultant. But back then, I come from a family of diplomats, right? So my grandfather was in the foreign service and in the government.

Okay. And everybody kind of expected my dad to go. That way? That way. And he kind of wanted more. Yeah. And to see the world a bit. So he ended up taking this job in this food processing factory in Lagos, Nigeria.

And he eventually started his own business. But yeah, they have a classic, almost annoyingly humble story where they left privilege in New Delhi and kind of moved into one room in Lagos, Nigeria. And your mom, what'd she do? My mom was a housewife then. How many kids? Two. Elder sister and me. All right.

And then mom went back to college when she was 40. Yeah. And now she heads the UN Wildlife Cell in India. Wildlife what? Cell. Oh, okay. So she's the head of business development for- For wildlife.

What, conservation? For conservation, yeah. Really? Yeah. What is the focus in India? What are the animals? Well, she was heavily focused on tigers and dolphins. Yeah.

Like India's a big tiger reserve right now. Yeah? Oh, really? Yeah. Most of the tigers in the world are actually in India. Yeah, I give money. And Texas, ironically. Is that true? Yeah. But there's the North Carolina Tiger Rescue, which I give money to, because I went there. In Texas, aren't they just

in people's backyards? That's right. And then they end up at the North Carolina Tiger Rescue. Yeah. Because idiots buy tigers. In Texas, aren't they just in people's backyards? That's right. And then they end up at the North Carolina Tiger Rescue. Yeah. Because idiots buy tigers. And then, you know, when they're young and then when they grow up, they're like, there's a fucking tiger in my house. And if you've ever seen one of those animals up close. Man. You realize just how much could go wrong, how quickly.

Sure. Yeah. Don't use them for your act and don't keep them as pets. No. I went to this temple in Thailand and I was on my way there and my mom said, you can't go there where you get to hang with tigers and it's this monastery. And then she told me that they're drugging the tigers. So they sedate the tigers so that you can go and take a selfie with them and pet them.

But it's a huge animal. Big man. Did you go though? No, I didn't go. I didn't go. So you're in Nigeria for how long? Parents were there for 17 years. Oh my God.

So you grew up there. I grew up there, but I got sent to boarding school when I was eight in India. Now was that, now do you remember Nigeria and do you remember it well? We're very sort of, very select memories. Because see, like this is the thing about like being an American in a weird way is that it seems that, you know, people in any other part of the world, except maybe the other larger, except, well, not, but even Russia. I mean, we don't have, you know, we vacation in America mostly.

You know what I mean? Yeah. Or we go to Hawaii or what, maybe Mexico. But it just seems that the experience of coming from anywhere else, you go other places. Yeah, you do. Totally other country. I can't even imagine what Nigeria is like. Did you go back?

Yeah. Like during the summer? I went back three years ago to to perform in in lagos just do a show and then i found my childhood home uh which was an insanely sort of a lot smaller than i remember is it a big indian community there big indian community but also like nigerians and indians are just the same people really we're over emotional uh dramatic people who have no no middle setting you know it's either very angry or very sad yeah you know are you but are you very angry sometimes i'm i've learned to kind of keep it in there and

put it on stage yeah yeah i mean yeah it seems like you that that some of the stuff you talk about and even the way that you frame stuff is uh it's deep it's thoughtful you know you're willing to uh express uh expose yourself you know for the for the good of the collective i mean i i'm 16 years in so i'm still kind of figuring it out you know what i mean yeah well you'll keep doing that you know so i i think the pandemic helped me a little bit because I started doing these shows called 10 on 10, which were outdoors. Yeah. I just climbed up. Where? In Mumbai?

In Goa. In Goa. How big is the comedy scene there? In India, it's huge. Well, I mean in Goa specifically. It was nothing. So I had to climb up a hill with a speaker and a microphone. Oh, it was just you.

And then there's, you know, 45 people in the sunlight in a forest. Yeah. And we're doing shows with each other. That's nice. And I was filming them. It's nice. It's a great vibe. But then you realize,

oh, I can't just do jokes here. It has to be a little bit honest and vulnerable. Yeah, because there's no context. No. Also, they just climbed up a hill for half an hour. And they're scared. There's a disease. There's a lot of things going on.

So there has to be a little more humanity to this conversation than normal. And so having to do that for a year, I think changed my voice a little bit. Yeah, because I noticed that. It's tricky. It's tricky when you drift into something that can either appear too emotionally vulnerable

or too self-righteous yeah because you then you know there's a very fine line you know even if people are on board yeah i i just know i have to have something really fucking silly around the corner yeah you know like with this special i think they're two pretty emotional moments but the rule with them was they can't last more than seven seconds and there better be something really stupid immediately after to disarm it that's the John Oliver format

yeah yeah yeah but alright so growing up when do you start I mean you worked as a comic from what age

you've been doing it 16 years so did you have another plan did you go to school for something else I went to drama school so the aim was always to make it to like Hindi movies. And your folks are okay with that? They were unaware for the first two years.

I'm only saying that because in my experience of talking to Indian people, even Asian people, any, you know, other than American people is that their parents are driven. Oh, yeah, for sure. And that there's certainly something in the culture. Well, I went to college in America, right? Where? And I went to Galesburg, Illinois. What is that? It is the Mecca of civilization.

What, is that near Chicago? It's three hours out. Three hours, that's not near. No. Is it in the middle of fucking Illinois? Conefield College, Conefield. One Maytag factory. A Maytag factory?

Yeah. One Kmart, one JCPenney. Oh, JCPenney. Yeah, that's the fine. Kmart. Kmarts are gone. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

And so I couldn't really afford to go there, but they gave me a big scholarship. How do you pick that school? Because they're known to support international students. So you had to find that place? I had to find that place. But did you have bad grades? No, I just didn't have the money. So they gave me, I think like a 95% scholarship, right? Yeah. So my parents had to kind of put together $6,000 a year so that I could come to college. Yeah.

And was it a good college? It was a really good college, like a liberal arts. And you were set, you were ready to learn. I was ready to learn to do econ. And then I had this professor, after a beginning acting class that I took on a lock, just kind of called me into his office and be like, yo, you're meant to do this. Radio? Uh-huh. What did he say? What kind of class? Beginning acting.

Okay, beginning acting, sorry. And he's like, so just become a drama major. Oh, yeah? And so I kind of listened to him. How did he decide that? What did he see? I don't know. His name is Ivan Davidson.

And I did the class. I got an A. In drama? In drama. In beginning acting. And then the next term, the college was doing War and Peace. Yeah. And he's like, I'm going to give you one of the leads without you auditioning.

Yeah. But just, I believe in you believe in you and just for the next three years shut up and take every course i tell you to take now he didn't tell me to give up econ i did that on my own yeah i just didn't tell my dad for a year okay so after a year i called him and i'm like hey i'm gonna be a drama major yeah and my dad was like okay just finish econ as well so i did oh you did. And you did okay in it? I got a 2.1 GPA in Econ. Did not like Econ.

Did not like Econ. And then I found stand-up my last year of college. At college? At college, yeah. What, was there a night or something? No, it was, so I, in Africa, you only really get black American artists on TV. So I saw Bill Cosby himself. I saw Pryor.

I saw Eddie Murphy. You know. They choose that? Yeah. It's insane where on TV in Nigeria, you'll have like Sanford and Sons. Sure. You can still find that here, but there's other options. But you won't find a white sitcom on TV in Nigeria.

Really? So it's just taking, you know, American programming that appeals to them and putting it on TV. That's interesting. And so I saw like Richard Pryor and Eddie Murphy and a bunch of other stuff. And Cosby himself. That's some special, yeah. That's a hell of a special. And then in college, I think the Comedy Central half hours started to happen.

Yeah. I remember watching those. Yeah. And then I was just, man, drama school was, American drama school is a hell of a thing. It's a lot of sitting in a circle and crying and emoting with your shoulders. But you got, it sounds like you did the, you got the tools, you got the thing. I did the thing, but then I just was kind of rebellious. And so at the end of college, I wrote this 90 minute standup piece.

Yeah. And did it for 800 people and it went okay. But it was very like inside jokes for friends. It wasn't standup, standup. Yeah. I just remember. 90 minute. 90 minute.

That's a big, big bit. It's a big big bit it's a big bit and uh but i just distinctly remember being on stage yeah and not feeling limited as opposed to theater where i always was on stage but felt limited by script collaboration sure but also i i would imagine that conversely you know having done the emoting yeah, that helped you feel a freedom of mind on stage as a stand-up. Not feeling limited goes, you're working towards, I think when you do stand-up, to figure out how to own that stage up there for yourself. Like it's your place. So I bet you that doing all the emotive theater work probably got you comfortable though

it did or at least I think sometimes maybe not in a live show but in a special an audience can tell the difference between a stand-up who's projecting emotion or accessing emotion right you know and sometimes we just project but we don't access and theater teaches you to access yeah so if nothing that, that's very helpful. Sure. And that was, yeah, it's interesting. Because, like, you know, when you think about those two specials, if you think about, you know, Pryor's live in concert and Cosby's himself, you know, Cosby's projecting, Pryor's actually emoting. Yeah.

And Pryor's remembering on stage. You know, and Cosby's kind of projecting. Yeah, he's a little more manipulative, clearly much more than we ever anticipated. Yeah. But like in a horrendous way, it's so hard to talk about him even, but you can't dismiss that special because it had such a profound effect on so many of us. And it was also just very, like that dentist bit. I go back to that dentist bit all the time just in terms of structure structure callback everything yeah but in eddie murphy was like eddie murphy was so funny but it almost seemed like what is his what was his real voice it almost

seemed for a while that there was like you, he was just being everything a comic is like that came before him was. Ironically, I think he was, he always struck me as somebody who was very sensitive who was doing an alpha act.

Right. Like if you watch Raw and Delirious. Right. The memory stuff and the childhood stuff is actually very sensitive. Yeah.

But there's this kind of. He steps in with the swagger. This bravado, alpha, peacock behavior that to me reeks inauthentic. Oh yeah. That's interesting. When I watch it in retrospect. Yeah.

I do a bit in one of my specials about being an alpha pussy. Like you know there's a spectrum of alphas. I'm just on Oh hell yeah. In comedy especially.

Yeah. So you do that in college. And then what? Do you go back? Do you go back to Mumbai or Nigeria? They're still in Nigeria? I had a very dramatic exit from America where I. Again?

Again. I went to Harvard does this program with Russians. Oh, yeah. I heard about that. Yeah. I had another guy on here that was part of that what's that guy's name

uh John Bernthal yeah Bernthal was in that yeah he did it so I did that program and I think he might have

gone to Moscow to study he did the three year program yeah but um so I spent six months in Boston learning with those guys

yeah over at ART at ART yeah and it's a it's a hell of a program that you know because they're brutal it was great like after four years of drama school in galesburg like day one the artistic director of the moscow arts theater comes out and he's just like

acting is very simple read script believe script do what the fuck you like. You're like, thank you. Thank you. All set. I just spent a hundred grand on all this other shit. And did that turn out to be true? They're very, very, very kind of brutal with their feedback. Russians, they're great.

And they offered me what they offered John Bernthal as well, which is we'll take you to Moscow and you do the three years and we'll change your life. But I just kind of didn't want to do that. And then. Why, you thought you'd had enough? You got the hang of it? I wanted to teach Shakespeare. You wanted to teach Shakespeare?

That's what my big plan was. I'd be a college professor. And so I went to Montgomery, Alabama to do the Alabama Shakespeare. I like that town. It's a great town. The Alabama Shakespeare Festival. And so I like that town it's a great town the Alabama Shakespeare Festival and so I got into grad school there and I was just too young

you know 22 to go to grad school for Shakespeare did you have that big a handle on Shakespeare did you get it I loved it and I got it

but everybody else in the program was 30 years old oh so you weren't it would have been uphill slog yeah they wouldn't have

respected you. I dropped out in like three months and kind of went back to Mumbai. Dejected or ready to go? Very dejected. Because you didn't have a plan anymore. And also for Indians, a college dropout kid is not a happy scene. But did you tell them it was from Shakespeare

teaching? Also, I kind of met a girl and my parents knew that's what was up. That's why I was coming back. Oh, how'd you meet her? I met her in between undergrad and grad school. You went back? Oh, in America? Yeah.

And then she went back and I just kind of followed her back. She met Indian here. Yeah, I met an Indian here. And then she went back to Delhi and I went back to Delhi after a while. How long did that last? Five years. That's a pretty good run. It was a good run.

So there you are you're in you're in where you're in new delhi i was in new delhi and then i i did like a stand-up show and it sold out strangely because there was nobody under 30 doing stand-up it was this very kind of posh you know upper crust high society thing. Yeah. At least in English. Yeah. And so there wasn't a kid who was just talking about his balls or saying the F word or whatever. And so college kids showed up and they were like, fuck, this guy's 23 or 24 and he does, he talks like us. And so. And you're doing Indian jokes?

I was doing Indian jokes. Yeah. But in English. Yeah. We have the largest English audience in the world. Yeah. Do you have a second language audience in the world. Yeah. Do you have a second language? I speak Hindi.

Yeah. So I do movies in Hindi in India, but I do stand up in English because I think in English. Yeah. And so then that started to move a little bit. You think in English. I think in English.

Really? Yeah. What does that mean? It means... I like it. But it's your default setting, right? I have options to... Because I come from a country where a billion people think in Hindi. Well, think like, it's a processing thing?

If you're thinking, I got to go outside right now. Yeah. That's an English thought in your head, right? But it exists in Hindi, doesn't it? It exists in Hindi, but for most people, that's a Hindi thought. Oh, I see. The inner monologue is Hindi. So somehow or another,

English hijacked your Hindi. English hijacked my Hindi. It's the first language my parents spoke. It's a weird thing because we have a complicated relationship with English in India, right?

Because we're the largest English audience in the world, by the way. Is that true? 260 million people speak English in India. That's bigger than America's English audience. the world, by the way. Is that true? 260 million people speak English in India. That's bigger than America's English audience. Every time I hear about the population in India,

I'm like, where are they putting everybody? And then you talk about it. They're just out in the streets sometimes. But we are kind of judgmental about English because it's taught to us by colonizers. There's a complicated sentiment there

with an English artist where you're immediately perceived as privileged or pandering or Western. Yeah. And ironically, that got in the way of my stand-up a little bit because they were like, oh, he speaks English

and he's kind of privileged and snotty. That's funny. It's like an Al Madrigal bit. You ever hear that Al Madrigal bit where he's talking about performing for a Mexican audience? And I can't remember exactly how it goes, but I think the comic before him performed in Spanish. Okay. And he came out and he's doing English jokes.

And then I don't remember how someone in the audience realizes it but like he doesn't speak spanish and they kind of run him off the stage that's great so for me what happened was when i got into like controversy and like everything kind of gets yanked away from you that's when people were like oh he's fucked in every language. Like it doesn't matter whether he speaks English or not. So now, because his privilege is gone, we can actually listen to his jokes.

Oh, who, this is the people that judge you before. Yeah, like the audience was just like, they decided you were of another, you were condescending.

Yeah. But, but that, that first gig, you know, that's what sort of got you the bug. Yeah. You know, like you sold sort of got you the bug. Yeah.

Like you sold out just because you were a young Indian guy. Yeah. And you were talking about the young Indian guy experience. And that's where it takes off. How do you start getting movie parts? How do you start doing more stand-up? I got a gig in Mumbai hosting like an award ceremony, like an MC gig. Yeah.

And the next morning, the guys who ran our biggest newspaper called me into their office and they were like we want to make you a vj and i'm like what the fuck is a vj like you're going to introduce songs on music tv and move to mumbai in a week and it did and that lasted about five minutes because i sucked yeah at a VJ. It's like the most horrible job unless you have some freedom to talk. But just like

introducing songs or video clips, the worst. And just me with sleeveless cut-off shirts and like henna tattoos and spiked up hair.

Whoa, you got pictures of that? Somewhere. Yeah. And I think I was fired in like six or seven months and I was a big daily show fan, like Jon Stewart, big influence. And on my friend's like kitchen table, I ended up shooting like a news comedy pilot. Yeah. Just like me doing the news. Yeah. And CNBC picked me up.

Weird. Really? And so at age 26, at the end of the primetime bulletin, for the last three minutes, I got to go on every night and kind of do three minutes of stand-up about the news. In America? No, here. India has its own CNBC. Okay. So I did that for about five years. Oh, that must have been in building an audience. Building an audience, getting corporate gigs because everybody watches

making money making money at the age of you know 26 which is great and then I saw a movie a Bollywood movie called Rang De Basanti

and it's important because you know Hindi movies were always like beautiful leading man beautiful leading woman

and then everybody else had kind of dancing dancing everything and then everybody else had kind of dancing, dancing, everything. And then everybody had really small parts. Yeah. But this was an ensemble of city kids where people kind of look like me,

you know, and they weren't necessarily six foot four and muscular and amazing. And I was like, Oh shit is changing. I want to try and get in the movies now. So I quit CNBC and gave myself like a year to become an actor and to get movies. Because you had the chops, right? You knew how to act.

I knew how to act. You learned from the Russians. Yeah, pretty much. And I've used none of that acting training. It's in there. It's in there. Yeah. How can you not use it?

I mean, my first Bollywood movie is The Leading Man. Yeah. You have to do the songs because that's part of our culture. You dance? Yeah. And so I was on top of a piano in a chiffon shirt with six wind blowers

fucking pointed at my nipples and my shirt is fluttering as some lady's running towards me, allegedly in slow motion but she's actually sprinting for camera. I'm not using stanislavski in that moment you're not believing the script no i'm not i don't have an inner monologue except for fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck look at me what am i doing so but were you popular uh as a as an actor i I got lucky. Like my third film really blew up. Yeah. And then. How many did you do?

I've done 17 movies. You know, but. That's crazy. But maybe four as a leading man, you know, and then. But still, but like, you know, after like that third movie, you're on the streets and people are like, hey. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, people know who you are after a movie and it was this young it was like it was like our lock stock and two smoking barrels like

a cult comedy okay you know yeah very guy richie yeah and it was called deli belly deli belly and that was your third movie that was my third movie and that blew the hell up yeah big hit with all 260 million people with all 200 no yeah uh, yeah. More. It was dubbed in Hindi too, so it was a big audience. So it was like, what, how many billion? Well, maybe like, I want to say 500 million people

might have seen that movie. Yeah, because it's India, right? Everybody goes, right? Everybody goes. That's our thing. That's our thing. That's our Sunday. That's our Sunday.

That's crazy. So now you can, you have a certain amount of notoriety. Yeah. You can start performing these big shows. When did you get away from stand-up for a few years? I got away from stand-up.

I just let it go for six years. You just did the chiffon shirt thing? I did the chiffon shirt thing. And the dancing? And the wheat crust smoothie and the two cell phones and the sunglasses in airports. We call that the Aziz here. I got lost, lost in that shit. No shit?

Yeah, like heavily lost. Oh, boy. Did you buy a nice car? I bought a nice car. Which kind? I got a Range Rover. Oh, that's nice. That's reasonable.

And then kind of stopped reading the scripts a little bit, and I was like, who's the studio? Who's the director? Got into that zone a bit. Oh, but you became a full on douche bag full yeah and then had it

yanked away what do you mean there's a movie that was it's called Masti Zadeh and it was kind of the biggest studio movie I'd ever done

yeah biggest budget and just a horribly regressive kind of sex comedy script okay and and you did it and I did it for the cash yeah And just a horribly regressive kind of sex comedy script. Okay.

And you did it. And I did it for the cash. Yeah. And it crashed and burned. Did you get flack? Flack and phone stopped ringing. Really? Because I wasn't dependable, right?

I didn't bring in people on a Friday. Oh, so you couldn't sell tickets. You weren't a draw. I wasn't a draw as a leading man. And that movie did you win? That movie kind of did me. Was there a process? I mean, was it several movies in a row?

Yeah, it was about four or five movies in a row. And you can't plan this. They kept giving you the shot. They kept giving me the... And it reeked of somebody who was doing movies he wouldn't watch. So he was doing scripts that he didn't respect. So now you're out. So now you the shot. They kept giving me the, and it reeked of somebody who was doing movies he wouldn't watch. So he was doing scripts that he didn't respect.

So now you're out. So now you're out. And I was doing stand-up like once. Did you have to get rid of one of your cell phones? One of my cell phones. And then,

Range Rover. And that's when I was like, let's go to America and see what's up. Because the phone isn't ringing here. And it's ironic because CAA had signed me at kind of the peak of the Bollywood thing.

CAA? Yeah. And so they were like, he's this big Bollywood guy. We're going to bring him over. And I didn't have the heart to tell them not so much anymore. Good. Fuck them. Yeah.

But now let's come over and take meetings in LA. How'd that go? I went over to the laugh factory while I was taking meetings and was doing generals. And I hadn't taken standup seriously in a really long time. I did like seven minutes, I think between two killer acts. I don't remember who they were and went really well. And I had this kind of undeniable, oh man, I feel better about this than I have about anything in the last five years. Well, you probably loved it to begin with. I did, but I'd let it go.

And then I was like, oh, this is where they're good at this, English stand-up. So I need to start spending time here. Yeah, we invented it. Well, you and the British. You got to give the British a little bit of credit. Not for stand-up. Yeah, but for comedy for sure. And then I spent a year just kind of traveling the States.

You know, so then doing improvs in tiny clubs. But were you pandering? For sure. In that moment. Just trying to figure it out. No, I get it. But like, I was just curious. So did you use the model of the sort of new-to-America Indian caricature of yourself?

No. At that point, it was literally just the 400 Indian people in town that were coming to see you. So they're still all Indian? So still all Indian at that moment in time. Oh, that's good. So then you don't have to pander so much. You're kind of giving them a reunion with home.

Sure. So they've come to you so you can tell them about home. Yeah. it's that kind of a vibe yeah so i did that for about a year and then netflix kind of came into my life yeah and said let's do a special right you know and that was the first one that was the first one and then that kind of started bringing american audiences to the show but that's interesting because like that like we were talking about before with YouTube and Netflix and everybody's watching is that,

you know, you now, you can, if you do a Netflix special in the United States, you can, you can gain legitimacy internationally.

In India, you know, they watch, they watch it. Yeah. And you're not beholden to the Indian entertainment system.

No, not at all. Yeah. And you, you can sell to the Indian entertainment system. No, not at all. Yeah. And you can sell tickets kind of everywhere. Sometimes I feel like American comics underestimate how many tickets they can actually sell across the world if they have an Netflix special. Oh, yeah? Yeah. I'll look at American comics who have an Netflix special and be like, why aren't you touring more across the world?

Because you could. Yeah. I mean, for me, it's just sort of like, but yeah, I could, but I'm okay. No, I get it. Do you not, are you not a,

like, I want to go to Europe guy? No, I go, I was, my last tour, I went to, I went to Dublin. I went to, That's lovely, yeah.

I love it. I went to London. I was there for a few shows and then I've been up to Amsterdam. I've been to Sweden. I've been to Norway and stuff.

I would do that, but that's sort of like, I got to, you know, I got to take a I've been to Sweden, I've been to Norway and stuff. I would do that. But that's sort of like, I got to take a month. I don't love being away for a long time. I get it, yeah. But it was fine. It was a good experience. I love international travel.

That's my, I'm very happy. Where haven't you gone? I think South America. That's the only continent I haven't Kind of performed on Uh huh

But I've gone everywhere else Yeah Yeah And you love it always I do Why Do you still Is it still mostly English

It's all English And I think it's childhood You know I was I was in boarding school And then When I was 14

Through 18 I stayed with my grandparents in Delhi. Yeah. And which is not a great time to put a kid in a room with like two 80 year olds.

Right? Right. Sure. We're just kind of free. Yeah. And they had a house where one set of their kids was in Amsterdam.

My parents were in Africa and Nigeria still. Yeah. My sister was in in college in two different cities and my cousins were in America. Yeah. My sister was in college in two different cities and my cousins were in America. Yeah. And everybody was kind of transiting

in and out of this one house. And I'd go to the airport to pick these people up. So I just ended up spending a day a week or two days a week at the visitor's lounge. In the airport. In the airport. And then here are these people who come in from somewhere else

and smell different and look different. And their luggage looks strange and their clothes are kind of different than mine. There's something different about them. And I'm like, I'm going to be somebody that people wait for at an airport somewhere. I'll be the guy who's different. So you're just curious. There's a big world out there. Yeah.

So now, as you're growing up, you see the political climate changing. Yeah. How aware are you of that? I mean, when you're on the, not just as a kid, but when you're on the top of the world with your Range Rover and you're. Not at all at that moment in time, because you're not even saying anything remotely honest in your stand up at that moment. And also, but you're living the dream, right? So, you know, it's all working for you and it's

it was just a different time I think in terms of you know if you talk about like 2014 or 12 or 10 and India was very chilled out like you know and then I think in the world this kind of you know super right and then also super sensitive wave.

It's about a six-year-old wave, I want to say. Who was the president before? We have a prime minister. Prime minister before. His name was Manmohan Singh. Supremely intelligent man, great man, very quiet. So the joke about him, like the Bill Clinton joke was that he was horny all the time. The Manmohan Singh joke was that he was horny all the time yeah the man mohan singh joke was that he just says nothing yeah you know but i it was a common

thing to do you know but was there any sense because there's no new guys named modi yeah yeah was there any sense when you were growing up that there was going to be this nationalism that there was going to be this right wing um no i think i think we didn't expect it much like the rest of the world didn't expect it you like the rest of the world didn't expect it you know except for those who knew except for those who knew yeah right so so was it was it a simmering reaction like when when he took power because he's not unlike trump except that everybody seems to like him yeah he's very effective at what he does in how is he how is he that what what is what is he doing culturally the is he making very effective at what he does. How is he? What is he doing culturally?

Is he making it more conservative? Is he anti-gay? Is he anti-what? Is he trying to make it? He's actually not doing anything culturally. That's the thing about a prime ministerial or a parliamentary system, right? Right. Where the prime minister kind of gets to just focus on projects, infrastructure, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And then there's a very big cabinet that does things. Right. Okay. So where is it taking India? I don't know. But I mean, what is he like? Because like, you know, when you say someone's like Trump, you know, that indicates something. So what is, what are the two opposing forces within the culture right now?

Because you speak of it, but you speak about class. I think it's about extreme progress and a defining moment at the worldwide table versus human rights, versus, you know, you know, Dealing with poverty.

Dealing with poverty or a conversation around privilege or class or oppression. Now, with you guys, you've kind of hit the top of the mountain progress-wise. You know, so you're not, that's not around the, with you guys, you've kind of hit the top of the mountain progress-wise. You know,

so you're not, that's not around the corner from you guys. No, now we're going down the other side. You still have time and the luxury

of focusing on this conversation. Yeah. But right now, if you look at somebody in India and you're like, we're going to be the third largest economy in the world soon.

Yeah. We're going to be at every global table, et cetera. Yeah. Do you really want to focus on all this other stuff? Is the popular narrative. Which other stuff? poverty i mean less and less indians are

poor every year right under his government you know more and more hospitals what's the percentages though that when you have like how many billions of people we have 1.4 billion okay so like all right so less and less so less and less right But then do you want to talk about minorities? Do you want to talk about all these other things? It's the classic, does a full stomach also mean a full conscience? You know, conversation. But now what about, tell me the dynamic with Pakistan. I don't think it's so much of a hot dynamic anymore.

It used to be about 10 years ago. Pakistan's kind of imploded on itself in the last like 10 years oh yeah like I saw Jesus I saw a photograph of their prime minister's name is Imran Khan decent guy walking around with a bucket over his head like to parliament like a bulletproof bucket and like four guys with bulletproof shields around not great not a great visual for the ex-leader of a country. So I think they have big problems just internally right now. We're not a problem for each other.

From tribal warfare? From tribal warfare, and I think the army runs their country. Their president is just sort of a sitting puppet for the army. So how does it get to a point where, you know, you do these few specials, you tour internationally, you don't do movies anymore? I do,

but less. I'm giving stand-up time in these years. Oh, yeah, right. So, the last special landing is a, you know, sort of a reaction

and a deconstruction of the event that got you outlaw status, which I guess is you've got, is it still? No. All right. Well, so, because I watched the two Indias. Mm-hmm. And, you know, I was, not being Indian, I watched that and, you know, given the reaction to it, I'm like, what did I miss?

Yeah. Hey, man, you and me both. So explain what the two Indias was and why you did it. It was at the end of a special? It was at the end of, I performed at the Kennedy Center. So I'd done 90 minutes of stand up. Yeah, it's a good room. I've done that place.

Yeah. Yeah. And so it's a really strange thing. Like I'd done like 10 YouTube videos like that before. You know, just kind of pieces and spoken word pieces, et cetera. Spoken word, almost poems about the class differences. Class differences about privilege. I've done a bunch of those videos.

And this one, you know, it's weird how I'd done all of these videos over three years. And then suddenly people start calling you brave, but you're just doing the same thing that you've always done. But shit around you has changed. But there's no fuck you to it. No, there's nothing to it. I mean, it's not like incendiary. It was just, I think, a timing. And it was more about how people were feeling at that time rather than what I said.

But here's the story, right? So I'm at the Kennedy Center. I've sold it out. And my wife and me are doing like a tour of D.C. in the morning. And it's week six of a tour. Yeah. Missing home. You know, we both want to go home and have some Indian food and, you know, be in our house.

And we see all these monuments. And at about 2 p.m., I write this piece over lunch. Right. And I go to my wife, Shivani, and I'm like, should I do this? And she's like, yeah. Why not? What could go wrong? Yeah.

And I'm like, we need somebody to film this for my YouTube. And we find a wedding photographer on Yelp who's free on Friday or whatever. And we pay him 300 bucks to show up. Yeah. And we lay my cell phone down on the Kennedy Center stage and just hit record. And we filmed it and we put it up. And it was about the duality in a nation. And it was about the light and the dark.

And it was about not getting lost in the darkness, but remembering, you know, who we are. And it ended in a good round of applause. I put it up on my YouTube. And it got something like three or four million views overnight, which was unusual for me. Yeah. And then I think we all have the crazy news channel. You know, like you guys have your Fox TV, et cetera. We've got like three of those.

You have three of them. You have three of them. We have three of them. Yeah. Now, is it like, before you go on, is it like, cause I'm trying to make a connection with this,

this, with the Indian prime minister. Is there a racial problem in India? No. There's none of that. No. Okay. Go ahead.

And they took two, three lines and kind of put them up on news bulletins. So looking for clickbait? Looking for clickbait. Yeah. And they found it. And then suddenly I was the number one trend in the country for, I want to say three weeks, three and a half weeks.

Okay. Right. And then. So what happens when you get back? So I have to leave in like a week, right? So leave the States because my visa is expiring. And I got a call from my lawyer saying, these investigations

are going to come against you. So people are filing police complaints. For what? For defamation. Defamation of the country? Yeah, right. So who files a complaint like that? I mean, you can walk into a police station

and file any complaint. It's the police's job to honor it or not honor it, right? But that's not the way it works here, really. I think it's a different system where the average civilian can walk into a police station and say, I want to complain about this. And a policeman has to write it down. Whether it has legal merit or not, the policeman will decide.

Holy shit. Like, you know, some places in America can't even get a cop to do anything. Right. So people do that in 15 different places in the country. even get a cop to do anything. Right. So, so people do that in 15 different places in the country. Now, was that organized?

I, I don't know till date. It's a very weird thing and I'll tell you why. All right. Um, this starts to happen

in like the first three or four days of this being on the news. Uh-huh. The video gets shared 35 million times or something like that.

Largely domestically, by the way, it's not a video that's actually watched abroad. So the allegation in India, so the allegation that you've done this abroad, it's actually a domestic video on some. And given the numbers we've been talking about, not incredibly popular. Not incredibly. Only 35 million. I know, right? It's a drop, right?

And my lawyer's like, it's a seven-day cycle on mainstream news. If you're still on the mainstream news on day eight, you're fucked. So I just need you to shut up for seven days. Were you talking? No. I was saying nothing.

Phones were off. So were you freaking out? Yeah, I was getting death threats. You know, I was, I had, I got like 50,000 death threats, you know, in that week. Where? On the YouTube comments? On my email, through my website, all of that stuff. But see, like, what, I don't, what, but, so this is nationalism, is what, those are the people that are sending those things.

And what is that? Now, you're telling me that nationalism in India is rooted in progress. There must be something else driving it. Is there something religious driving it? No, because I didn't actually bring up religion at all. Yeah, but that doesn't matter. But what's making these people so pissed off? I think it's because I had a reputation of being in a group of artists that's also kind of anti-establishment.

And comedians are considered anti-establishment. Anti-establishment meaning anti-regime. Anti-regime, et cetera, which comedians are painted as, right? Right, okay. So you're scared to death in those moments. It's the worst. And then on day six, like somebody turned

a light switch off, I was off the news. It's like it was machinery. Huh. Like somebody turned a machine off. And so we landed in India on day five. Yeah. And we were expecting there to be policemen and all of that stuff. Nobody

at the airport. There were 200 photographers waiting for me. And I ain't that kind of famous, you know. And so then we just kind of put our phones off and went underground for three months, my wife and me, really. Because whether it was on the news or not didn't matter. There was a momentum to it. There was a momentum to it. I had to wait for it to die. And then.

Like on the street and stuff? Yeah. I was a little bit worried about going outside etc and and so you you almost put yourself in this bubble and you don't know how people feel about you and you at some level one day you feel like the center of the universe and the next day you're strangely humbled because it just all went away in like 30 seconds so So did it really happen? Were you really national news? You don't know. It's a weird. Or worse, you know, is that what the news is? Is that what the news is, right?

So you're living in a reality you don't quite fucking understand in that moment. And I think when I wrote my first joke about it, because I knew I had to talk about it. Of course. I mean, it was your life. It was my because I knew I had to talk about it. Of course. I mean, it was your life. It was my life. You're a talk about your life guy. Yeah, I am.

And then I think I came back to Mumbai three months later. And when I started talking about it, that's when I just kind of met people. And most regular people were just like, yo, that was a crazy fucking month. And I have bills to pay and I have to go now. Sure. And that, you know. So in your mind, you know, you were speaking as an individual Indian, you know, in relation to the world that you see. Yeah.

In a free thinking kind of way. Yeah. But, you know, certainly not in a, you know, let's fight the power way. No. you know, let's fight the power way. No. But you do fall into this sort of coincidental almost

hero status for speaking truth against power. I mean, there's nothing more annoying than being painted with that status. I'm sure. I'm going to be honest. Because it wasn't your intention. It wasn't my intention and also there's no way to go from that status. No, but yeah, either you've got to pick up the sword or you've got to hole up for three months.

Yeah, exactly. But I don't get to do dick jokes immediately after that status. So I don't get to be silly immediately after that status. No, no, no, no, no. You've got to figure out. You've got to give enough time so you can do the serious joke and then the dick joke. Your classic structure. Yeah.

So I had to kind of say okay the first thing that i say about it has to be really really fucking funny yeah and i at no moment can i lionize myself or victimize myself so it's a weird you kind of really learn what being a comic is for the first time where you have to shoot for funny first etc and so it's a weird one to figure out but it's just interesting in a country here, like in America where people talk about not being able to say things, which is bullshit. You can kind of say whatever you want. But you literally had your home country was filing claims against you. Well, I have what might not be

a very popular thought on that American sentiment about not being able to say things I don't think if we're being honest about it going to jail means you're not able to say things

that's right going to a police station or spending all of your money on lawyers every single day means you're not being able to say things being worried for your safety on the street

means you're not able to say things but complaining that people your safety on the street means you're not able to say things. But complaining that people are going to get upset at you online or, you know, be mean to you, et cetera, in the comments, that's not complaining that you can't say things. That's complaining that other people also get to say things. Sure. About what you said.

I agree with that. Yeah, but you came up against something different. Yeah. That, you know, it's interesting because I didn't know the scope of it, but, you know, but the prime minister never stepped in. Oh, no. And did the government step in? They never would. Never officially. And to that point, the most dangerous guy in the room is not the guy with power. It's the guy who's two degrees of separation away from power. Wait, the guy who's going to do something at the behest of the power

because he thinks he's entitled to do that. Yeah, that's the most dangerous guy in the world. Sure, your neighbor. Yeah, exactly. So that's who's filing complaints.

It's not the government. They got shit to do. But it's somebody who's looking for their attention. And then it becomes news. And then it becomes news. So, how,

do you find that you're engaging with Indians on both sides of the you problem any more than you did before? I think the special coming out on Netflix really helped in terms of the new one. The new one. Landing. Put a perspective out there and also, you know, give people enough time. There's enough cycles then. Yeah. And also, strangely enough,

what happened is every issue that I talked about in the video kind of came true. You know, just in terms of there were lots of stories in all of those veins. So a lot of people were like, yeah, he's kind of...

Right. Right. And then the two Indias sort of meme or all of that stuff became something that people started using a lot, you know? So. Oh, when they're talking about it? When they were, it was just so annoying.

And that was your thing? No, not because it was my thing. No, no, but it's your, your, the, the concept of the two Indias being popularized was you. No, it existed before me, but like I just gotten done getting trolled, right? Oh yeah, yeah. So now it's kind of. So like five weeks into me,

just like everything's peaceful. Everything's great. The leader of the opposition goes on the floor of parliament and he's like, there are two Indias. And I'm like, oh fuck, now we have to do that. Or then somebody says it on the news. But yeah, but it's not you.

And also that's what you want to happen. In a perfect universe, yes. No, but I just mean that's the risk of speaking truth to power, speaking about politics publicly, is that you have something you're relating to people that is about humanity and inhumanity in relation to government. And, you know, you want to, you're putting it out there so people will see it differently. It's a double-edged sword in that you don't get to predict when you create the conversation,

right? I get that. But you definitely facilitated, you know, enough time has passed, enough people have seen it for people to kind of go like, oh, it's kind of like what he said. And, you know, maybe we need to sort of make this more visible or talk about it in a different way. That's what you want.

That's what you want. And also you have to accept humbly that you cannot control where this conversation goes. Right, and also you can't say like, I didn't mean to, you know, start any shit. You know what I mean? No, you can't go, because you did the video, right? Right, but sadly, I think there is some part of us

as comics where it's sort of like, I didn't really want to cause any trouble. And then when it happens, you're kind of like, oh, fuck, so now this is real. Yeah, and it's a weird thing where you walk out on stage now and they were coming, you know, to just have a good time earlier on. But now they're coming with just 20% more emotion. Yeah.

They're a little bit more invested in you. Right. And you have a responsibility. And you have a responsibility. And also they're dying to see you talk about it. Yeah. And where do you put it in your set? Just structurally, even that's a tough question, right?

Like I put it nine minutes into my special. Sure. And I spent three minutes on it. It's so funny because it's like, you know, really, and I just mean this in a nice way, but only Indians know about this. You know what I mean? And it's a big fucking deal.

It's a big deal, yeah. And like, you know, when I watch that special, I honestly, and I don't know if you cut it right or if it was the appropriate reaction, but there's a beat in that special outside of the two Indias where you're just talking about, like, you're talking about the two buckets. Now, I don't know if that was really your life or if that is the life, but it is something that is real. Yeah. And there were two guys up front that just went over. They just kind of, it killed them. Yeah. And I thought it was so specific, but the identifying with it was so perfect.

Yeah. It was great to see, you know? The bucket bath. Yeah. Mark, you got to try a fucking bucket bath. A bucket bath? Well, and there's a lot of guys getting barrels now at ice. No, no.

The bucket bath. One hot, one cold. And like in thinker position on your knee, putting a hot, like just boiling hot water on you and having it run down your back. Yeah. It'll beat any shower in your life. Oh, yeah, yeah. It's amazing. It's a good thing.

It's a damn good thing. And so what happens now? What are you doing here now? I. Just promoting the thing? Just promoting the thing. And then I'm writing while I'm in LA. I'm just in two writers rooms for stuff that I'll hopefully get to be in.

Oh, really? Yeah. Like what? I have a sitcom that's in development at Fox. Oh, yeah? That I'll hopefully get to star in, you know? But what is that? Is that you as an Indian who lives in America?

It's me coming over and being a country music star from India. It's called Country Eastern. Are there country music stars in India? Yeah, and I'm in a band. I've been in a band for 10 years, and everything we do is kind of country blues influenced. Yeah, me too, yeah. And so it's a music show that's in development

and then I might do a rom-com here soon as an Indian guy who lives in America as an Indian guy who lives in America but as a

so now they don't want you there we gotta deal with you well I got some Bollywood stuff as well my friend I'll keep the lights on everywhere

yeah you got a lot of Bollywood stuff coming I'm I'm ironically playing a nationalistic journalist in my next project. That's good. Yeah, so that should be fun. Mix it up.

Yeah, it's like a newsroom kind of a piece. Interesting. Yeah. Well, good talking to you. It's good to see you, too. Nice to meet you. Yeah, man. Okay, Veer Das. That was a nice talk. Okay.

Beer Das. That was a nice talk. His tour dates and tickets are available at beerdas.in. And hang out a minute. I've got a surprise for you. You can get anything you need with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So, no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats.

But meatballs and mozzarella balls, yes, we can deliver that. Uber Eats, get almost, almost anything. Order now. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category.

And I want to let you know, we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly.

This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Okay. So, last week, this is pretty great, people. Last week, I spent 90 minutes with William Shatner. And I got a real kick out of the guy. And you'll hear the full episode this Thursday. But I figured, why not give you a little taste? Why not just give you a little right now?

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I mean, it's limited to what I have. I got a biscuit and some jam. Do you want? And I got, Bud, great coffee. That place. I wouldn't have been able to provide a biscuit or jam. Okay. Why not? Because I don't have those. I have toast. I can make a toast. Yeah, a toast, yeah.

They had a biscuit, so I said, yeah, I think the biscuit was all dry. It was cold. Why didn't I ask them to heat it up? The butter was cold, so you couldn't spread the butter. And I'm afraid of choking. Are you afraid of choking? Yeah, sure.

I'm afraid of a lot of things. Yeah, like me. Yeah. I'm afraid to go to sleep. I am, too. You are? Well, my shoulders bother me. Yeah. I'm afraid to go to sleep. I am too. Well, my shoulders bother me. We're posting that full episode on Thursday.

And as always, if you want an ad-free WTF experience with new episodes and every episode in the archives, sign up for WTF+. Click on the link in the episode description or go to WTFpod.com and click on WTF+. Here's some sloppy fast guitar. Sloppy and fast. Thank you. guitar solo Thank you. Thank you. BOOMER LIVES Boomer lives. Monkey and Lafonda. Cat angels everywhere.