WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1443 - Ramy Youssef

Episode Date: June 12, 2023

In 2019, Ramy Youssef surprised Hollywood by coming out of nowhere to win the Golden Globe for Best Actor in a TV Comedy. Now, after three seasons of Ramy on Hulu, he talks with Marc about using his relationship with faith and culture to make comedy and explore the Muslim-American experience. They also talk about the inspiration he took from Jenny Slate, the mentorship he took from Mark Curry, and the path he took from stand-up to his own show.Submit a question here for next week's Ask Marc Anything bonus episode. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Lock the gates! all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fucksters what's happening i'm mark maron this is my podcast wtf it goes on It goes on. Welcome to it. How is everybody? Is everybody okay? Today, Rami Youssef is on the show. He's a comic and actor who kind of surprised everyone when he won the Golden Globe for Best Actor in a Television Series for his show Rami back in 2019. The show and Rami himself have since been nominated for Emmys in season three, premiered earlier this year. He's in the new, it's on Hulu. He's also in the new Yorgos Lanthimos movie, which looks Yorgos Lanthimos-y.

I can't, I don't know what to make of it, but that's how I enter all his films and good for Rami for getting that. But the amazing thing is that, you know, sometimes I don't know the work of the people coming on, but I know that I should know it. And I know that they would be an interesting interview. And it was the same with Rami. So before I interviewed him, I watched his comedy specials and I watched all the seasons of his show. And it's just one of these things where

it's not that I'm out of the loop. You know, I'm busy. I'm busy baking and cleaning shelves and doing little odd jobs around the house. You know, I have a full day of bullshit tasks that never end. So it's very hard for me to stay in the loop with culture and media. Like, I do know that President Trump was indicted again, and that's exciting. But, you know, it's just all tempered by the fact that he's trying to, you know, race the clock now. And I believe that if he, you know, if he is elected again, he will never leave for sure. And that will be the big shift. It's already happening. But nonetheless, let's talk about Rami Youssef.

It's just one of these shows into a world, into a life, into a way of life, into an American life that I really knew nothing about. And it turns out like that is more so than not. Look, I'm a tolerant person. I'm an accepting person. You know, I'm a sort of like, you know, live the life that you've put together for yourself in this country that used to really enable that in a more kind of a proactive way. But I knew nothing about American Muslims, immigrant people. I didn't know much about the Muslim religion. I didn't know how first generation Americans who come from religious Muslim families from elsewhere

organized their life, organized their community, had the friendships they have within that religious community and just within that community itself. And this is a kid who grew up in New Jersey, but you know, the window in for me was as, you know, provocative and funny and, and beautiful as, you know, me first experiencing reservation dogs. It's like, I'd how, look, experiencing reservation dogs. It's like, look, I know we walk alongside of all these people in our country and we see them at work or passing by on the street. I live in an Armenian neighborhood. I know very little. So I guess I think what I'm saying is I would enjoy a series about an Armenian family so I could better understand my neighbors. I imagine there's other ways to do it. You know, maybe I could be friends with people from the neighborhood and enjoy that. I mean,

I'll have a nice kebab occasionally, but I don't know how everything's organized. I know that they seem to enjoy white automobiles, and I don't think that's racist. It seems to be true. And I can tell the style of their yards and their houses, but I don't know how they live. But this, this show Rami was just mind blowing. You know, the, the struggles he goes through as, as an American and as a guy, that's not sure where he stands with his faith. And, and as a guy who is, you know, kind of like straddling two cultures, it was educational and funny and emotional, the struggles that I don't know. But man, I mean, I just was blown away by the whole thing and know a lot more. I'm happy to have the knowledge. I'm happy to be able to have a type of empathy now for a religious group,

a religious community, an immigrant group that is more informed than it was previous. So there. So that's what I'm saying. Also, folks, I'm ready to answer more of your burning questions. We've got another Ask Mark Anything episode coming up for full Marin subscribers, but you don't have to be subscribed to ask a question. Just go to the episode description in whatever app you're using right now and click on the question link. I'll answer them on next week's bonus episode. All right? That's going to happen. That's going to happen. It's going to happen. So I'm really starting to question my choices around my time.

I think everything's all right. Look, man, if you clean out an office or you clean out a room or you make your stacks into piles or you make your piles into shelved items, at least you can look at it and go, look what I did. You know, I feel that when I do laundry. I'm like, I'm so proud of myself. Look, I made my bed again. Hey, look, my shoes are all in a line. I mean, this stuff is satisfying, but I don't know if it's a life. Is it? I can't consider food shopping a hobby. Can I, I did just make a vat of vegetarian chili for a party. I'm going to, that was a good, a good few hours yesterday. I got it from that Angelica

kitchen cookbook that somebody sent me. And it's, it's amazing. I made a vegan cornbread and I love doing it, but man, that, that chili was labor intensive and there's a lot of it. So now I have, now I'm in that situation where I used to go to these parties and bring like a smoked brisket, which took like 10 and a half to 11 hours. This only took like two or three all in. But the issue like with brisket, if it turns out good, people are just going to eat the fuck out of that shit. But like, if I'm bringing this vat of chili and if it doesn't, if it doesn't go like, uh, I'm bringing it home. That's the way that's going to go. I'm bringing it home. I'm going to free some of it. I'm going to, you know, I too much work into it. The cornbread that that was easy. That's disposable. But the chili that's going to go. I'm bringing it home. I'm going to free some of it. I'm going to, you know, I too much work into it. The cornbread that that was easy. That's disposable. But the chili

that was, you know, that, that was a day. I'll let you know how that goes. But in terms of my life, like I, you know, look, I'm working, I'm doing what I do. I'm a comedian and I'm doing new material and having a good time of it. But you know, I spend my life doing it. I've always spent my life doing it. And you start to ask yourself when you're immersed in a job, even if you like it, it's sort of like, is this a compulsive behavior or do you just not know what else to do? Or do you love it? Do you feel like you have to do it? Like these are questions. These are questions. Though I am enjoying the new jokes. But I always find that, like, I try to talk about things because there's very few things I haven't talked about.

And at Largo, there was some personal excavation going on that's yielding something. But I don't know why I feel it's important to share some of that stuff and to find it funny. I don't know. It doesn't. There's got to be a bottom to the pit of me. I would think at some point, but I do leave a little kind of like, wow, like that was, was that necessary to talk about that? And is that my job?

Is that entertaining? I don't know. It doesn't matter, you guys. Look, I got a vat of chili in the house. I got a vat of chili and I've got to go. I did it. I made it a day early so the flavors would take and now I'm going to go heat it up and make sure it's salted properly. And you know, this is my work. This is my work for today. You know, finishing up the chili, a two-day process. Yeah. a two-day process. Yeah. But anyways, I do have some gigs coming up. I believe if you go to wtfpod.com slash tour,

I think I'm doing another Dynasty typewriter show here in Los Angeles on June 24th, I think. Go check. I think July 1st at Largo for a music show. And I guess I got to get some dates up. I've got some club dates coming up to start doing the work. I mean, I guess it's what I do. It's what I live. It's how I live. It's who I am. It is how I've chosen to be me in the world and to put me out in it. Right? It's okay. It's all right. Okay, it's all right. So Rami Youssef, this is the first time we've met.

And, you know, I entered as a new fan and a pretty big fan. You can watch all three seasons of Rami on Hulu. He's also the co-creator of Mo on Netflix. That Mo Amir guy, I should talk to him probably at some point. I don't know why that hasn't happened. But also his comedy specials, Rami. And yeah, so this is me hanging out with Rami Youssef. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category.

And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly.

This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Death is in our air. This year's most anticipated series, FX's Shogun, only on Disney+. We live and we die. We control nothing beyond that.

An epic saga based on the global best-selling novel by James Clavel. To show your true heart is to risk your life. When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive. FX's Shogun. A new original series streaming February 27th exclusively on Disney+. 18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. I lived in Queens for years.

And I didn't know what was going on in Queens. But I knew it had to be. So you hung out with Egyptians. Yeah, totally. I was around the corner from the Egyptians on Steinway. Yeah. Like at the end of Steinway. That's where we lived there. Like my whole childhood was there.

And then when like my early childhood. And then when I was like seven or eight, we went to Jersey. But yeah, my grandparents were always there. My grandfather's still there right off Steinway. Yeah. It's weird with Queens though because like you get like that part of Steinway, which is at the end of Steinway before the highway. It's just all Egyptian.

Yep. And then a couple blocks down, Greeks, and then there's Dominicans. It's crazy. I know. The one thing that always struck me is I'd be coming home from doing comedy at 2.30 in the morning, and there were whole families shopping for vegetables. It's like, kids don't sleep? Is there any rules applied to any of these? No, that's Egypt, though. Egypt's like, you fix your car don't sleep? Is there any, any rules applied to anything?

No, that's Egypt though. Egypt's like, you fix your car one in the morning. Like, no problem. Oil change, transmission. Yeah,

yeah, everyone's. Why? There's no limit. It's just whatever you need. Egypt is all about, it's like this level of hospitality. Like my dad was a hotel manager too.

So it's like he, In Egypt too? He, he, he worked at a hotel in Egypt. Both my parents did, but then he was in the States obviously, but it's, it's very Egyptian to? He worked at a hotel in Egypt. Both my parents did. But then he was in the States, obviously. But it's very Egyptian to like just someone says they want something and you're like, yeah, let's do it.

There's no time limit. It's like if you have money, let's do it. And I think that's why, you know, America is so attractive to us because it feels like the land of everything. Like let's do it. Yeah, it's possible. Yeah. Is it though? Did that translate?

Does your family still feel that way? Didn't pan out. No, it didn't. The deal has fallen through. I'll tell you that. Yeah. It did not occur the way that they thought it would. No.

No. I watched a special, and I think I'm a couple episodes into the newest season. Oh, cool. So I've made it that far. Oh, wow. Thank you. Yeah, I watched it all. into the newest season. Oh, cool. So I've made it that far. Oh, wow. Thank you. Yeah, I watched it all. Because I find myself doing that because I don't watch things if I don't do that.

Yeah. Because I live the life that you live. I live the life of a comic anyways. Like most people, they work and they go home and they watch TV. Yeah. Like I don't watch fucking TV. I know. I know.

And I don't know what's on. So I watched two and a half seasons or two seasons and change yours, and I'm like, how long has this even been out there? I know. This seems like a very good show. It seems to mean something. Does everyone know about it? Someone should tell people about this show.

Well, yeah, it's so funny, man, because it's like there's a lot of stuff. There's a lot of stuff. But, like, I had the same experience with Reservation Dogs. Oh, it's so funny, man, because it's like there's a lot of stuff. There's a lot of stuff. But I had the same experience with Reservation Dogs. Oh, that's great. I love it. And he put me on an episode this last season because I pestered him because I love the show so much. But I was like, does anyone know about these natives? Yeah.

I mean, this is something that I know it's a comedy show, but we should learn about the natives. Why isn't anyone paying attention to this? I have it with everything even even underground railroad which you know we all but i literally was like do people really know the real deal yeah about the slavery where it's like mr white guy educated by anything i watch it's crazy i think we need to brush up on the Underground Railroad for sure as a society. Did you watch that thing? Dude, it's crazy. It's crazy.

It's a fucking masterpiece. Yeah, it's really fun. And I talked to Jenkins, and it was like, nobody watched it. Nobody fucking watched it. Yeah, it's really tough, dude. Is it? Yeah, I mean, because it's also like, I don't know if you felt this on your show, but it's like, maybe your show, I don't know. I feel really, like, I felt like I really heard about your show.

I feel like it was like one of the few things that they were really putting marketing behind. My TV show? Yeah. Well, you were the only one. No. My show, because this is like when I watch your show, like I can like what I mentioned to my producer was like, this is the world that Louis discovered. Yeah. That he found, if there's a main contribution to creators or to us, to comics, to people that have artistic sensibilities and want to do something, is that he made a model for that.

Yeah. Like, you know, to take each episode as its own piece. Yeah. And to sort of, you know, take risks that may not make sense. Yeah. Like, you know, to take each episode as its own piece. Yep. And to sort of, you know, take risks that may not make sense. Yep.

That are aesthetic or filmic or peculiar. Yep. To sort of like leave a poetry to it. I think that he opened that space.

Big time. And, you know, I can see it in your show more than any of the other shows I've watched. Because Reservation Dogs is doing a different thing, but it's still a single camera thing. But you, as a comic and, you know, a selfish, fucked up person, you know, you're like, oh, I can just be me then if I lean on the ethnicity thing. I can fucking jerk off in every episode and tell God to go fuck himself.

The door is open. I never tell God to go fuck himself. It's a stress. There's the guilt. It's very tough. You're defying God to make himself present in your life in a way that's more tangible. It's about shame, Mark. Shame.

Absolutely. It's about shame. What is it about the shame, the compulsion? I have it. Yeah. Like, of course. You know, I don't even know what it is, but it's like I feel it constantly

to the point where I think it's about how we're brought up, but maybe it's religious with you. I don't know. I think it's everything. I mean, but I also think that I, you know, it's funny even talking about, you know, this.

I was talking about this with a friend of mine who, he's a line producer mine who, who, who he's a line producer actually on, on, on our show. And he was just like, yeah, I feel this thing in you that, you know, you're, you're constantly like, like you have that thing where it's like never enough, you know, but, but in a weird way, I don't feel like you're doing it because you need more. It's almost like you feel like your parents need more, know like yeah and and it is that thing of you know what we were talking about like the deal pay off to come to this country and i feel like this constant i think my whole life this debt on my head hey this better be worth it being here every a debt to like a debt to my family a debt to you know because

knowing there was this strain of you know we're in a place that at first a place that's just difficult to be in. And then I think, you know, we get into this in the first season, but I do think growing up in Jersey and New York in the early O's, you know, spending now like more adult time away and being like, oh, that was pretty fucked up. Like we, it was this weird thing for a kid. Like maybe as an adult, you have a better handle on it. Sure. But as a kid, you're kind of just growing up in constant confusion and fear. And I think like, again, this feeling of, oh, I better make this worth it for my family.

And so the shame was so baked in for me. So that, okay, so everything is just like, what are you doing with your time? What are you doing with your time? What are you doing with who you are?

So the frequency of shame was there, you know, always just by expectation, by immigrant expectation. Yeah. But then like, you know, always just by expectation, by immigrant expectation. Yeah. But then like, you know, you chose to build on that shame. Well, yeah. Then there's the part of me that's like, well, fuck it.

I'm like, how am I going to feel better in a normal way? But getting back to like whatever you're going to say about my show, my show was, you know, I fought for that show. But in retrospect, you know, and I'm dealing with this now, I don't think I'm that interesting. And I don't think that my story is that relatable necessarily. I think people like the show and I think it was as honest as I could be. Well, I was just going to say it was very honest. I feel like that's my favorite thing about watching you. Like anytime I've seen you, like, you know, and I've seen you over the years, maybe we've actually only intersected at like two shows

where we've talked, but like, I'll always see you. And I'm, it's always one of those like, oh yeah, I got to hang in the room because like, he's just, he doesn't care about like dressing it up for people. Like, it's like, you're just saying it. And I think that, that I grew up on Carlin, right? So it's like, I love that. I love think that that i grew up on carlin right so it's like i love that i love that just like straight up this is what's on my mind and and and and i you know my whole family remind you know you would get along with my family they're like sarcastic bitter yeah you know like self-deprecating yeah you know like you're you're very arab in my mind yeah so so like i see the, I see the, the link,

you know? Well, I mean, I like, I don't know that I know how to dress it up. Like I'm like now, like I wish I had that skill. I think that's one of my,

I don't know if it's a shortcoming, but it's just what I did. I'm trying to, after the special, I got on stage last night for the first time to really do, I was locked into a long set. Yeah. I went to the ice house,

you know, I got an opener, I got a host and I, and I, I think I got maybe 35, but I'm like, well, I got to log set. Yeah. I went to the ice house. You know, I got an opener. I got a host. And I think I got maybe 35. But I'm like, well, I got to do 50. Yeah. So let's go. And anytime I do that, it's almost inevitable that I'll drive home embarrassed. I know, dude.

Right? I know. And just sort of like, why did you even tell them that? Or did I put people through? Yeah, all that. Yeah. I made them pay. But like, I'm digging deep for like, you know he even tell them that? Or did I put people through? Yeah, all that. I made them pay. But I'm digging deep for what don't they know.

There's some sort of expectation for, I hope he says some weird shit about himself that might possibly embarrass him because that's what I'm here for. And then you're driving home. You're like, I did nine minutes on cats. Yeah. Well, that's the go-to if you have to. There's going to be nine minutes of cats no Yeah, well, that's the go-to if you have to. I don't have any, there's going to be nine minutes of cats no matter what I do.

But it's, it's talking about, you know, your dick or who you're dating or, you know, I was, for some reason,

you know, like last night I was like, I've decided to talk about the two threesomes I had in college. Oh, yeah. Where, like,

and I just think the funny part of it is like, in a threesome, someone's just going to end up watching their friend fuck for a while. And that's, were you the watcher? Yeah, of course. Yeah, of course.

And that sticks with you. Oh, yeah, of course. Like, I guess I'm done. But I'm in this, so go for it, you guys. I would imagine that's why the memory stuck, because I think if you were doing, you wouldn't remember as much as witnessing. No, I always, you know, it took me a long time to get a handle on that. On the, oh, fuck, I'm sorry. Do you want me?

And it got processed last night at the Ice House. I just think it's a funny idea. It's like right now, I'm just trying to see what's actually relatable to grownups. Like in that, when you say that, you immediately know who's done that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? It's not like this common thing for my generation, really. Right.

Maybe you. I don't know. I don't know. I never was involved in one, and I don't know anyone who was. Maybe I know like one or two people, but. Maybe it's the ones younger than us. I don't know who's doing it, but I heard it's a thing. I'm sure someone is, but, you know, or a generation is, but it's, it's, yeah, it's, if you watch

euphoria, you're like, whoa, these guys are doing crazy stuff. I didn't even feel correct. I felt like I was doing something illegal. I, by the way, it was like, as someone who in my life has seen a significant amount of porn, I was like, whoa, I don't know about this. I can't do this. Yeah. Yeah.

Porn's a brain breaker. It is not. Well, that's something that I think, you know, we really tried to get into in the show where it's like there's the religious guilt, but also just like having porn that young. You know, when I look back at it, I'm like, oh, that really, really messed with my sense of understanding just the relationship. Intimacy, sex. Intimacy. It took up a lot of my attention. It was, you know. it's a it's a drug

well yeah and it's not until this season it seems to the what the beginning of the third season the last season that you actually are you know your doctor friend is actually sort of like you're you you're a porn addict you're like a drug addict yeah yeah it doesn't come up for two seasons because you just want to you want to make sure all the porn heads relate like I'm that guy and then drop the sickness frame on them in the last season. And look, to be clear, I'm not trying to be – it's funny because there is that thing in me and maybe it is the Egyptian thing in me where I don't want to offend anyone actually. I don't want to – so I'm even like, look, I'm not – this is no disrespect to the sex worker industry this is no disrespect to people who do that because it's not it's not about critiquing you know it's it's truly about saying i know this was true for me this warped a lot of you know of a worldview in a way that i know it's also affected a lot of people that i know

yeah but i i i think that you can push back on the idea, like, you know, fine, you know, sex workers, you know, do what they have to do. And, you know, it's their business. But there is a framing out there that is brought up in defense of sex work that says like porn is not addictive, which I can, it's categorically not true.

It's not true. I know, it's just not true. But the reason they push, they say that is because there's a fine line between saying porn is addictive and moralizing. Yeah. There's a fine line between saying it's addictive or it's wrong. Yes. So, you know, that industry wants to avoid that framing. Yeah.

So, you know, I guess so they have self-respect. I don't know. So the industry have self-respect i don't know so the industry isn't ashamed i don't know well i think everyone is you know i obviously grew up with with a very you know religious framing but i think i can i continue to have religious framing but it but it's shifted for me where i i kind of felt like i had an uh kind of an opening where i was like oh i spent a lot of my life thinking about hell, but I never really thought about the idea of heaven. I never really thought about, like, I thought a lot about punishment, and I don't think a lot about mercy. And what does it look like to actually just have a merciful view?

So, you know, for me to say porn is addicting, and I understand that that could hurt some people. Like, I actually don't want sex workers to be upset. I don't want them to feel that. That's what you're afraid of alienating. Not the entire Muslim world, but in the end. Well, look, I don't want Muslims to be upset either. I constantly don't want anyone to be. But then it's also like, and there is this part of me that pushes myself to be like, cool, but is there an offering that I could have, you know, and there are enough people who I've intersected with that, that are like, hey, I know you get a lot of shit for this or, oh, hey, you know, whatever.

But thanks for, thanks for putting that out there. That, that makes it all worth it. Oh, yeah, of course. But I also think this, this idea that you don't want to offend anybody, you know, in light of your sort of rudderless behavior is a through line of the whole series. And my life. Right. And it's like, it makes you like,

you know, ultimately punchable. Yes. By the end of, you know, the second season. You're like, just like,

what's this worm going to take a stand for anything? But you know, I really didn't want to also, yeah. Like the part of me was driven to, to be like, I'm not going to like, you know,

make this show where I'm just like the hero all the time. You know, so it there was a part of me, too, that I was like, no, I'm going to put out there stuff that has historically tortured me or stuff that has historically bothered me. Sure. And obviously we heighten a lot of it for the show. But, you know, it feels like a more useful offering of something that I could do in something like a fucked up comedy. offering of something that I could do in something like a fucked up comedy. Well, yeah. And also like there's just sort of that struggle with, you know, personal principles and sort of, you know, moral responsibility, you know, in light of, you know, your struggle with God, you have all this, this other stuff going on that you're, it's, it's compulsive

behavior or it's impulsive behavior. It's totally self-serving. Yes. And then like, you know, when you sort of trying to kind of get away with it and then like when you finally marry somebody in this well look the moment where the shake doesn't punch you and you don't seem to really learn anything it's kind of a rough cliffhanger that one and then you know you come back a year later looking like you lost some weight and you're a little more cynical and you got an edge to you

you're a little more broken and fuck you-ish yeah yeah i mean you know nothing's ever gonna work out i blew it all let's make some money I want you to do like our synopses. I want you to break the little paragraph under the thing. You want the blurbs? If we could do a collab on the blurbs. This wormy Arab

who refuses to take responsibility for anything is at it again. That'd be a great season. W you know, season four, just wormy Arab. Watch him worm out of everything and not think anything's his fault. It's amazing. He's like a magician, even though it's against his religion.

Look, I like, sadly, I relate. I'm a comedian. You know, there were like the last one, like. Well, I mean, let's go back, though. So you weren't in Queens long? Yeah, we were just until I think, yeah, seven or eight. Then we went to Jersey. But your grandparents still there?

Someone is? My grandpa's there and my uncle's there. And they eat at those places? They go to those bakeries? We do all of it. Yeah, of course. That's great. Yeah, yeah.

I mean, now I live in Brooklyn, too. And so that's just a regular, regular stopover. Where, to your grandparents? Yeah. So what part of Jersey? I grew up in Rutherford. It's a North Jersey. That's right. Where, where my roots are from. No way. Pompton lakes. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, like was the milk barn there when you grew up? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Dude, that ice cream spot. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. That was there when my mother was a kid there when you grew up? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, dude. That ice cream spot. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, that was there when my mother was a kid. My mother grew up in Pompton Lakes.

Yeah, that was, like, we would go there. That was, like, a date spot when you got a car. Right. You know, because it's a little- Because it's a big parking lot. Yeah, so it was a big parking lot. That was, like, 15 minutes away. Yeah.

You just, like, get right on, you know, right on Route 3. My grandfather had a hardware store in Haskell. Oh, yeah, dude. You know, up in the hills there, like Butler, Haskell. Yes. Where all the, I can't call them hill people anymore, but I don't know what's going on up there. But he had a hardware store there and an appliance store. Wow.

So that's like my people were from where you grew up-ish. Dude. I was alive when they built Paramus Park. It was like the Paramus Park Mall. Yeah. Like it was a big deal. Yeah. Because I remember my grandmother, because I'd go visit them.

I grew up in New Mexico, but I was in Jersey. We were in Wayne, too, when I was like six. Yeah. Oh, of course. But I remember when they built the mall, it was like the first food court. Yeah. That was big. And my grandmother was like, they have food from all over the world.

It's like Taco Bell. food from all over the world. It's like Taco Bell. It was a great hero place. It was the first time I had Greek food, and I was just amazed by it. At the mall? The best. Well, we grew up with the mall being built, which is now this big mall, the American Dream, they call it. But it was- Is Primus Park gone?

No, Primus is still there. But American Dream is on the way to New York on on route three and it's this it's this big development that had been was being built the whole time i was growing up it took 25 years or something to build trump was an investor he pulled out someone else invested they pulled out uh and it finally just got finished yeah and it's really yeah yeah and it's uh i think it's the second biggest mall in america or something like that willowbrook gone willowbrook's there still there well willowbrook was cool because it was i remember willowbrook would there. Still there? Well, Willowbrook was cool because it was, I remember Willowbrook would be open on Sundays because there's a bunch of Bergen County stuff that was like blue laws.

Oh. So they don't open, they're closed on Sundays. So if you needed something on Sunday, you go to Willowbrook. Oh, right. Oh, really? That was a bit, yeah. That was like classical mall with the fountain. Yeah.

They just chose Jersey because is it an Arabic community there? There is, but we lived probably, that was in Patterson. So we were like 20 minutes from there. So we'd go shop there, hang there. But our town wasn't, there weren't really Arabs in our town. Patterson was big Arab, a lot of Egyptians. Big. I think it's number two in America behind, or maybe two or three.

I think it's Dearborn, Michigan. And then I think it's Patterson. Really? And then maybe right after Patterson is Queens. But yeah. For Egyptians. Yeah. And both your parents are Egyptian? Both. Yeah. So, and your uncle, is that a real guy? He's an amalgamation of a few uncles. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good, that's a good character. He's fun. But in the series, he's Palestinian. Yeah. So we kind of played it off of, uh, our casting of like our actors that we had you know the woman who?

Who plays my mom in the show is Palestinian so we're in real life, so what's her name? She's great in succession, too She's so good. He all my best. Yeah, she's great. She's like an actor of our generation I mean we were so thrilled we got her you knew her growing up. Yeah, yeah, and and she's really I mean yeah She's been in some really great films especially in the Arab world, but I mean, yeah, she's been in some really great films, especially in the Arab world. But also, you know, yeah, she's a legend. I mean, I was so happy that we got her. And the father, where'd you get that guy? Huge Egyptian film star. Yeah, it feels like that.

He's, yeah, like. So were they just excited as hell to do this or? I think they got the script and they were just, what they were excited about was it was the kind of thing that was talking about what everyone talked about, but didn't air in the Middle East. And I think one of my favorite things about the show has been, you know, on a level you could think, okay, it's kind of describing something to an American audience or whatever. Yeah. But it does really well in the Arab world, even if some people are pissed about it. American Arab world or international Arab world? International.

Yeah. I mean, it plays really, like when I go to Saudi, people are pissed about it, American Arab world or international Arab world? International. Yeah. I mean, it, it plays really like when I go to Saudi, people are stopping me, you know, and, and they're like,

dude, I love your show. Like, or, or, or, Hey man, why'd you do that?

Or, you know, what do they primarily have a problem with generally? Sex, but it's, you know, and that was always the thing for me too, which is like the,

the interesting thing making the show is i knew if i was playing a drug dealer who you know shot people it would be less sensitive right than just jerking off to porn and i always thought that was a really interesting thing that jerking off to porn would feel so uh violent but jerking off to porn having sex with jews you go out of your way they had sex with two jews Mickey, Mickey, you go out of your way. They had sex with two Jews. One.

No, two. Was it two? Anna Conkle. She played a Jew, right? Yeah, that's right. You know my show better than me. You've watched it probably more recently than I have. Yeah, yeah.

I worked with her. I loved her. I love Anna Conkle. She's the best. Yeah, she really was awesome. Well, that's a funny scene because that's what people assume that that that idea that and i've always said it too but i was ill-informed really uh in that like you know there are muslims that are just like jews like non-practicing jews and yeah and i think there there's fewer of those we're you know and i think

this is kind of the um the conversation of our generation which is like are we gonna shift into just being cultural because we really hold on to it you know like i was just fasting ramadan this past month and i was in saudi and then i was in chicago why'd you go to saudi my wife is from there so so her family's there and so we went we spent time with them and then i had to go to chicago And so, but see, the thing is, like, that's not casual, right? Because, like, I know it's a casual. You know, you're just like, no, rewind me wherever. Well, I mean, just in that one scene, even when, you know, your cousin goes to your hotel room in Egypt.

Like, I assume that that type of sort of moral police is real or no? So the hotel room Egypt stuff is real for people who are Egyptian citizens. Yeah, they'll look for that. It's really interesting. You can't have a woman in your room if you're not married. If you are Egyptian. So it's like they'll be like, oh, this person is Egyptian. Like let's see.

Like I want to see the marriage certificate. Two Americans roll up. They're not going to say anything, which is, you know, a hypocrisy. But is that, what is that? Is that part of some sort of mild Sharia law or is it part of? Yeah, I would say like you said it actually pretty correctly, like moral police, they actually will call it like moral police. At least in Saudi, they called it moral police. But interestingly, there's no more moral police in Saudi. Like Saudi now is a whole other world. The Wild West? I mean, they'll like pay you to wear shorts at this point. That's funny.

It's a whole other world. They're wearing dresses. It's crazy. It's crazy. They can play music in their car now. Well, you know, between women driving, it's really fun being there now because it's a total different page turn. And it's funny to be there and have people in Saudi be like, dude, like what's going on with the abortion situation in America? That sounds rough because you can get an abortion anywhere in Saudi.

You know, like you don't want to be public about it or whatever, but totally like you go to a doctor and get that taken care of. It'll be way smoother than in any of these states. Well, I imagine that like that, that places that you have that are sort of culturally insulated and, and, you know, are, you know, in, in, and respect specific genetic lines, I would, I would think that they don't want those kinds of mistakes, right? They don't want, you know, unwanted kids. You know what I mean? I don't know.

No, I mean, it's an interesting thought. I don't even know if that's the basis upon which they do it. But I think there's actually— Well, it's not a progressive place. So, I mean, obviously there's something within, you know, a loophole within their religious beliefs that are allowing it. But I think this is the debate that's happening, which is like, you know, a loophole within their religious beliefs that are allowing it. But I think this is the debate that's happening, which is like, you know, what is progress? You know, like in terms of saying something's progressive or not progressive, it also is like, well, what kind of quality of life and what values are important to you?

Right. And so if you kind of feel the level of like financial capitalist stress that happens in this society and what people are experiencing here versus, you know, if you hung out in Saudi for three weeks, I bet you, you'd kind of be like, whoa, everyone's like a bit happier here. There's a different energy. Like people, doesn't everyone have a billion dollars? Not everyone, but, but there's certain basic things that are really taken care of, you know, even if you're, uh, no, I mean, they're doing well. No, no, no.

I mean, I think everything you're saying is valid, but it's like, you know, if you're just like a construction worker there, or even if you're someone who's like a maid at someone's house, you have healthcare. You know, I mean, these are things that, there are really, really core things that are just handled on a real human level.

And so I've been really-'ve been all the difference, dude. No, genuinely. I mean, even when I go to Canada, I'm like, it's not up here. Whatever that American psychic capitalist cancer, there's something not up there. It's not up there. It has to do with healthcare. Well, I think healthcare is a big piece of it. And also just like the way people look out for each other in a society. And so I definitely like recoil at progressive versus non-progressive because it's like, what's your barometer? Oh, you mean in terms of defining something as a progressive politically? And so I'm saying that's a regressive society.

That's a closed off society. Well, what are the metrics? You know, what are you looking at? Well, it's sad that I had to use that word in relation to my country. Yeah. That, you know, a progressive battle politically is trying to maintain the right of women

to have control over their body. That's happening here. Yeah, that's happening here. And you're saying in Saudi, it's like, oh yeah, it's not a problem. No, it's not happening there.

Yeah. And obviously it's like, you know, then you say, okay, Saudi women couldn't drive up until four years ago. 100%, you know? But I think what you'll find

when you speak with people there is they feel like, you know, every issue is cherry-picked. Where they're kind of like, can we just look at the whole picture? Well, nobody knows how to do that here. There's no whole picture. There's no whole picture. Everything here is a Marvel movie. We're good.

A Marvel movie or clickbait. Yeah, truly. Everything is just so sensational and it's so wiped out. So you're there and you're like, yeah, we know we have problems. We know we have stuff we're working out but why are we viewed as barbarians you know because that's the framing that we grew up with here which is basically everyone over there oh they tie up their women they can't drive they can't this they can't that and we're good but when you like zoom out and you really look at you know a whole world view and again get into things

like quality of life yeah get into how people are taken care of and where they are. And, you know, that there is something really beautiful to spiritual unity, even if there's stuff that is oppressive or there is, you know, but that's any, any system is going to have its joys and its oppressions. And I think anyone who lives here is going to experience what the joys and the oppressions are. So I think that, you know, when you really start to have a real worldview, That, you know, when you really start to have a real world view, none of it's convenient. None of it, you don't get to live anywhere and feel good just about being there. You know, it doesn't, it's not going to cut it. But also the idea, the whole idea of perception is important and how, you know, just what we get, what anybody gets on a day-to-day basis. How much do I know about anything?

Yes. You know what I mean? You're just kind of putting together bits and pieces of bullshit that, you know, you haven't done any homework. Yeah. You just kind of, it's everything's clickbait or hearsay or, you know, a picture you saw or a news article you read. Yeah. You know, like it's weird. I don't know if I ever saw the Saudis as barbaric. I just saw them as some sort of strange, insulated, you know, wealthy aristocracy that didn't abide by laws. I understand. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, it's funny. No, I, I, and I don't, I wasn't saying you did, but it's interesting. I'll feel it on

stage. Like I was doing, I was trying a new standup bit. Uh, I don't know, it was like last month. I was just, I think I was talking something about Netflix and like how many shows there are. And I was just kind of like riffing that, you know, they're, they're just going to, at a certain point, make a really compelling show about a pedophile. Cause they'll just run out of stuff. And like, you'll, you'll root for the pedophile, you know, like that's where we've gotten to in sensationalism. And then, so I'm just kind of talking about this premise. I'm trying to figure it out. It's like, and I, and I just riff, are there any pedophiles here? And people are laughing, you know? And then probably like six minutes later in the set, I'm like, yeah, my wife is Saudi. Uh, and the level of silence to my wife

is Saudi versus the laughter around, like, are there any pedophiles here? I was like, the fact that I said the word Saudi was so triggering and I can just, and I feel it everywhere that I go. There's this level of like, Whoa, you know, like, like that's so weird. You know, what is that? That's dark, you know? And, and, and I on that's so weird yeah yeah is that that's dark yeah you know and and and i feel that everywhere and yeah it's it's it's the unpacking of it and the zooming out of it it you realize yeah how programmed we've been sure so when do you start doing comedy in new jersey how does that unfold i was like i i started the first thing I ever really saved up to buy was a video camera. I really liked making things.

And so I would make little videos. I have these like short films that I used to make and like I would shoot stuff. And then, you know, you go to your grandparents' house, you got to be there for like nine hours. I had this little computer. It had Windows Movie Maker on it. And I used to just sit and make things and not talk to anyone. Right. You know, that was my way of just dealing with, oh, the family, everyone's loud.

Like, let me just go in the room and edit. Yeah. So I really liked that. And so I started writing little shorts and stuff, especially when I got to high school. Then I started acting in them. And then we were really, you know, a buddy of mine who I still work with, Jonathan Braylock, he had went to NYU. And he was like, oh, there's these guys doing sketches.

We've been making videos in high school. Let's do sketches. And he was looking like Derek Comedy, like Donald Glover. Those guys were still just leaving NYU. The Britannic guys, Nick Kocher and Brian Mack, those guys were doing stuff and we were really inspired. So we started doing sketch comedy videos.

And then I remember I went to UCB right when I got my permit, I think I was like 17, I drive over there and I saw Jenny Slate's one woman show and she would do this thing where she would come out, do a character and then she'd change and play a video she made. And she went back and forth and I was just, I want to do that. Right. Like that, you know? And, and I started doing that and tell her, I, you know, it's so funny. I haven't gotten to do that right like that you know and and I started doing that and tell her I you know it's so funny I haven't gotten to tell her yet yeah like I haven't I like haven't been in a room with her yet to be like you made me be like I want to do that yeah you know um but but I had been really into that and and you know the sketch world and so that's how I kind

of got into it I must have been I started doing sketch shows in New York when I was like 17 or 18 sure and then it slowly transitioned into stand-up when I was like 17 or 18. Sure. And then it slowly transitioned into stand-up, but I was way too afraid to do stand-up at first. I didn't like the idea of just being on stage by myself. So you were doing work in that UCB? People's Improv Theater. Okay. And UCB, and sometimes we go to the Magnet, that kind of stuff.

I don't know that place. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That all happened, you know, after me, I think. Yeah. Like, I remember when UCB got there and they were kind of housed in this old strip bar. It was the first UCB theater. And I just remember being told that sometimes Orthodox guys would come thinking that the strip bar was still there. They always have weird locations.

And Matt Walsh lived in an apartment above it at that time. But the big one over by the supermarket. Under the Gristidis. I had such, that was my dream. I remember even getting like a, That basement? That basement. I remember getting a manager and he was like,

yeah, film, TV. And I was like, oh, do you think you could just like get me like a regular show at UCB? That's all I cared about. Without going through the classes? Well, I did the class. I got kicked out of one of the classes because I was going to school at Rutgers in Newark and I was working at the Apple store and then I was going to classes at UCB. I was always late. So I'd show up like 30 minutes late and they had some policy. It's like, if you

go late three times, you get kicked out. So I got kicked out of two of the classes. So then I needed, you know, I was trying to lean on really crunch three arts to, you know, push me through the door. Becky. Oh, Becky's your guy? I was. I met Becky when I was 19. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

He used to be my guy. Yeah. For a long time. Yeah. Yeah, and then kind of you end up like sort of like, is this working out? You know, we change, you know, like. It's hard to be with who you were with early. You know, it's just like because you feel what feels weird for both of you.

Yeah. Well, you know, you're doing fine. But I was just sort of like, well, I guess I'll just have him around, see what happens. Becomes like a weird, bad marriage. But we're OK now. We talk to him. So that's how it starts. So you do stand up.

So you were never like stand up wasn't your jam, really? When I moved to LA, I didn't have any sketch going on. You moved here? Yeah, I moved here when I was 20. So when I came over here, it was like I was doing sketch in New York probably for three years. Then when I came over here, I started getting into stand-up and getting up, yeah. Where? Dude, I got up a lot at like Flappers.

That was like my my first spot and then I started going up at the at um the Laugh Factory I would only do oh so that's what so you weren't doing

alt rooms I would do alt rooms yeah definitely like Silver Lake the bars all that stuff yeah

but you would go up at the factory Laugh Factory yeah Jamie was really nice to me Jamie like put me up pretty quick yeah

yeah he he I got I never even got in at the store. I only got up at the factory. Yeah. Yeah, I never went through the system. There was that Israeli-Egyptian bonding you did with Jamie? We solved it one night.

You did? Yeah, there was one night we kind of talked out the whole plan and then he was just kind of like, get up there. That sounds like the most exhausting evening of anyone. I don't think I've ever talked to anyone. Buddy, buddy. That's where I leave the conversation. I never worked there just because of that.

Buddy. I'm like, I got to go. I don't know what's. I don't know where those audiences come from. I don't know where the money comes from. By the way, like between the factory and Flappers, it was like I felt like i was just doing a lot of time at the rooms that like i didn't see the other comp you know what i mean like people be at the store and doing other stuff and i was just like i got up there a lot at a certain point i started getting up at

the improv a lot yeah yeah i don't yeah i just go to the store because i just i don't need i have like weird resentments and pet peeves about the other places that go way back that I refuse to let go of. And it only matters to me. No one else gives a fuck. I'm like, I'm not working any improv. I'm not making them a fucking dime. They didn't help me. So that's not really, all it does, it's my thing. No one remembers.

Yeah, and I'm not hurting their business at all. It's like, yeah, I'll show them. Fuck them. Not selling one drink for them I mean you're very religious In that sense You know you have your principles You really stick to them

My principles Founded deeply on resentment Over past slights Many would say It lives in the realm of the unseen And you just hold on to it It's mystical You've got your cross on your chest

That no one sees I do Yeah and I'm gonna stand by it I'll occasionally do a charity show there Just hold on to it. It's mystical. You've got your cross on your chest that no one sees. I do. Yeah, and I'm going to stand by it. I'll occasionally do a charity show there. That's the only thing that transcends. That's it. It's for charity.

It's for the dogs. It's for the kids. But what are you doing otherwise? What was the plan? You did some TV? You did a TV series? What was the plan? You did some TV? You did a TV series? What did you do? The thing that moved me to L.A. was I got booked onto this Nick at Night sitcom with Scott Baio.

And so it moved my... Are you what did it to him? Are you the one that pushed him over the edge? Is that you? Dude. Tell me about the shut up, you fucking Arab day. Did that happen? There was the, I look, he was honestly so kind to me. Like it was, it was, he.

I think it was before he snapped. No, I mean, look, he was, I was, you know, we were working the day that Obama got reelected and he just kind of walked in and looked at everybody and he was like, you guys happy? You happy? You're going to see where this country's going.

Oh, yeah. All right? All right, let's shoot. And he didn't want to talk about it. He was genuinely, you know, because he's like, you're all like fucking liberals

and this and that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm not going to say Jews because Rami's here, but you know what I'm saying. He was, you know, but other than he was he was you know but other than that yeah very kind to me i mean he he professional very i mean he was really good at his job yeah you know ben it was a cool experience mark curry was on that show oh mark so a thing that really

launched me doing a lot of stand-up was you know I told Curry on set I was like I want to do more stand-up but I'm doing sketch and he was like where do you go up and I was like I have a show you know Thursday of flappers and he goes alright what time and I tell him and then literally that clockwork it's like I'm about to go up on stage and you just it's like a movie just this

whiff of cigar smoke as like the door to flappers opens and Curry comes in in a long trench coat. Oh, really? Let's see, you know, and he sits in the back and I go up and I'm like trying premises out of, you know. Wow, was that back when he had a little juice, I guess, still? Well, he had just gotten on this show. I mean, he was, it wasn't like his Cooper juice, but he was just, you know, he was out and he was doing his thing.

Yeah, yeah. And he was so, he was like laughing hard at half premises I had. He was like, come open for me. And so he started taking me on the road. And that, you know, off of that show. And he was really kind to me because I would go, I would bomb. I mean, I didn't know, I didn't have time. He's sort of a good role model because he's kind of a long form.

Yes. You know, guy. And, you know, he maintains a tone. Yes. He's not going to go get them. Yes. You know, he's not gonna go get him yes you know he's not a panderer no he does his thing and so it was cool because i would i would you know do these shows and and the first few i i definitely ate shit and he would just laugh he you know i'd come back and he'd be like you know and he'd give me a pat on the back and he didn't care what i did because

he'd go out and he would just reformat the whole room. It didn't matter that I bombed. Like, he got up and now it's his show and he totally takes over. That is the biggest trick to learn is that thing where, you know, you take whatever time is necessary to reformat the room. He did so well. Yeah, it's the best. There was this one show I – It's a real thing.

It's really about being grounded. It's a talent. I had this one. I remember I ate it and I felt guilty. I was just one. I remember I ate it, and I felt guilty. I was just like, man, I'm fucking up your shows. And he's like, you got to eat it to figure it out kind of thing. And I remember this one show. I definitely didn't have a good set.

And then he comes out, and he's just quiet a little. He's saying hey. And then he sees this woman has this big purse on the table. And he goes, this purse is is so big it needs a movie yeah and then he picks it up and he goes the purse starring octavia butler and he like puts it on his like thing and he goes mama i'm leaving and i'm taking the purse and he does this like movie trailer about a purse yeah and it was the funniest thing i'd ever seen i was like this is so good and the crowd is dying and it's like like, I never even went up. And so we did like, I think on the third city, I figured it out.

Because I also, the thing I loved about- And you started doing the purse bit. I started. I just stole his bits. And then after the show, he'd be like, why did you take my clothes? It just worked, man. I'm sorry. I just felt the bad.

No, it was great being on the road because you have no friends. So it's like you go back to the hotel and you're like, I can't do this shit again tomorrow. I can't do this at the next city. And so I think I went on the road with him. You mean bomb? Just fucking, like just eat it. And then I would come home at the hotel room and I would just sit up and write.

I probably left LA with like seven minutes and came back with like 25 that I really liked. And so he really helped me because by the end of those, I found what I think would have taken me like years to find, you know, cause, and especially two black rooms.

Sure. They're not, they're not waiting for your little like quip or whatever. Like, who are you? You better deliver. Who are you? What are you talking about?

And that really helped me. Like by the end of doing shows with Mark, I felt like I knew, you know, what I was saying and who I was on stage, which was really fun. That's good to get a, a felt like I knew, you know, what I was saying and who I was on stage, which was really fun. That's good to get a quick course in that. He really, yeah, I feel very indebted to him.

Yeah, I haven't seen him around in a while. There was a minute there where he was coming back around, trying to get something going, but then they just went back into the shadows somewhere. I don't know. He goes out with Cat a lot. Like him and Cat do these big shows. They like just... I just interviewed Cat a lot. Like him and Cat do these big shows. They like just.

I just interviewed Cat. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He really. He pulled one over on me. I got the well-behaved Cat. The.

I don't know what you're talking about. Yeah. You know. I've read over 10,000 books. It was pretty great. It was a really great interview. I don't know if any of it is true. But it was great.

It was like an amazing performance. I love that. Yeah, just sort of like him going against type. It was him doing his WTF interview. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, like on the level. No anger. He's not going to raise his voice.

He's, like, complimenting you on your shirt. Totally. Like, totally. I'm like, comedy? I'm like, really? Oh, okay. Just totally. I knew it was happening.

He's, like, never seen. Yeah, right. I knew it was happening. Maybe he has. But, I mean, I just knew. I knew what was happening, and there was nothing to do about it. There was nothing I could do about it. and I realized it was also very entertaining so I just let it go you know oh my god what am I gonna do I'm just happy to have him the second I get in the car and listen to that it's something

so but from there you go what what brings you back to new york though i i was in la for a while i i basically did i i you know did this show with with scott and mark and then i was doing these road dates with the nickelodeon nickelodeon yeah then that ended doing the road with curry how your parents dealing with all this shit they're kind of you know i just dropped out of college before i got the role from rutgers yeah that's where my dad went yeah it's you know fucking jersey i thought it was yeah yeah yeah institution right and so my dad's like why would you drop out of rutgers what are you doing what were you studying at rutgers political science and econ oh and um but i was going i was like doing again i was doing all this comedy stuff in the

city and then during my second year i started taking acting classes in the city so it was just i i never we're at uh william esper studio oh yeah um and so i didn't you know i was just never a good student so i just left and then so i come out here i'm doing the show and my dad's just like the show's gonna end and you got to go back to school you know it was that kind of energy yeah he didn't even it was just like they were proud but also that you're on television but it didn't seem real that's not a thing a job that someone does well they didn't it's not a job someone does but they didn't you know real like they didn't think it was dependable you know and then that show ended and then I spent a couple of years just doing standup. And I think I did a Colbert set that made my parents feel like I had really broken into the industry,

which is funny because I had a five minute Colbert set versus series regular on like a show. But there was something about, they were like, Oh, you know, Stephen Colbert, like that's you're good.

You're like Colbert likes you. You're good. You're like that. That's just like, it's such a parent talk because it's something they know. So it felt like a secure on a level so but it took it took probably like yeah that was like five years into since i'd left my house five six years since i'd left my family's house yeah um but you want to take the acting seriously yeah i mean i i was you know auditioning doing all that but it didn't it was i wasn't booking a lot of roles. I booked this Mr. Robot arc.

That was exciting for me. But then, yeah, at that time, I was really on the road. At first with Mark, then I was doing my own shows. But then I was opening for Gerard, and I was opening for Mo Ammer, and getting more time there and just building my hour. And getting more time there and just building my hour. And then it kind of like, you know, my buddy Ari Kacher, who had written on Gerard's show, we were doing, you know, we would do shows together, whatever. And then we kind of started saying, okay, like, let's figure out a show.

And that started in that downtime, you know. And Gerard is sort of, he became sort of a mini mogul very quickly. Yeah. So you knew it was possible yes and that you know the the crowd you were running with were doers you know you never got into this sort of like just i'm going to be on the road for three years you know there was always sort of a bigger purpose yeah and it really felt like you know even from when i was leaving high school we saw we were again like really inspired by the derrick comedy guys we were just like you know even from when I was leaving high school we saw we were again like really inspired by the Derek comedy guys we were just like you know these guys just make stuff they put it on YouTube right views and they're opening

doors so that when I came to LA that was my whole thing but did you do YouTube we did yeah I mean we weren't we didn't ever you know it was funny actually like there was one video we had that had like 10,000 views and that was like heat you know yeah I get the time it's like whoa you had like 10,000 views and that was like heat, you know, like at the time it's like, whoa, you got 10,000. Yeah. Like, you know, it felt like something when you're that age. Yeah. I mean, Becky off that.

Right. Like off kind of nothing, but also like a twinkle of something. Becky, Becky, who knows nothing about anything like that. But then he's just like, hey, like. Seems right. I heard that. But I definitely came to LA with that. And then I think when I started hanging with Ari, I was on the road with Gerard.

Yeah, there was that mentality for sure of like, yo, let's make stuff. That's what we can do. And so then we kind of hooked up with Ravi at A24. And, you know, they were really just starting their TV business. And so, yeah, it grew fast. Yeah, and Mo's a funny guy. Yes. I've met him a couple times.

He's a lot. But he's good. He's very funny on the show. I mean, yeah, and then we did the first season and then I had written like a whole, I'd been from opening for Mo, I was like, dude, I really want to do a show about undocumented dude in Texas.

And so I put together this pitch. For a show for him. For him, yeah. And then we went and pitched that. That was like the first summer off of, like, I think Rami came out in May. And then we, like, June or July, we went to Netflix and pitched Mo's show. Of what, 20s? What, 70s?

Oh, yeah, May 2019. Yeah. So what will I learn from watching Mo's show? Dude, you're going to get that Texas flavor. The Texas Palestinian show? You're going to get that Texas flavor. The Texas Palestinian flavor? The Texas Palestinian flavor. Oh, God. All right.

Is there a lot of different type of religion in there, or is it basically the same? Well, look, he's Muslim. Right. But I would say the show is less religious. You know, it's not. It's a different. Fish out of water show.

Different tone. Palestinian out of water show. Different tone. Palestinian out of water. Palestinian in a different desert. Yeah, it's a different, it's a whole, and you know, he's so funny.

He's funny. Yeah, he's funny. So yeah, we got that going. Yeah, kind of right on the hook. So with,

with Rami though, that's not Netflix. No, Hulu. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So,

so we, yeah, it's cool to why that decision at that time they stepped up they were just like we'll make the show

I think it was you know we it was a whole process to get Rami up and you know through the door because they were like

because I think you know we had A24 hadn't done a bunch of TV Gerard had done the multicam you know and Ari

they had done a multicam thing and we were working on it together but it was like no one trusted us you know, and Ari, they had done a multicam thing, and we were working on it together. But it was like, no one trusted us, you know? And then I think after the first season of Rami, they got excited, so we went to Netflix, and Netflix were just like, yeah, we'll do it.

You know, eight episodes. Like, they just, it was the days they were doing that. They don't even do that anymore. For- For Anmo. Oh, yeah. They just ordered it. Yeah, yeah.

They didn't even read anything. It was just off of what we said in the room. That was the era where they were doing it. Because your show got so much attention. Yeah. like we love this we were and we were like i was like cool you know mo's really funny in our show we want to do something with him that's totally different rami has this like smaller you know even like what you were alluding to earlier it's like we have a short film s quality to these episodes we're kind of zoning in on stuff and we're like we want to make something in tex's broader, you know, that feels a bit more like a sitcom, but it has, you know, these bigger immigration themes.

You know, Rami's kind of more personal and whatever. This is like a bigger thing. It's like literally undocumented people in Houston, but it's funny, you know, through Moe's lens. Right. And so, yeah, they were like, cool, we want a bigger comedy like that. Well, I forgot, like Atlanta's the other show. Yes, Atlanta, of course. That Louis cut the path for.

Yes, 100%. Yeah. No, I've like many times been like, you know, dude, we like the erasure of, it's been flat, like so insane that you can't even watch Louis when the influence of all of that is in, you know, a lot of shows that people really like today. Well, yeah. Well, I mean, it's very specific because not everyone can do it. Like, you know, even, you know, whatever I was doing, you know, certainly it was always

a thing as a comic when I was coming up that you wanted to show built around you. Right. But to take it into your own hands. And then, I mean, the two-edged sword of the Louis model was that, you know, he did it all on his own with money that, you money that he chose how to allot. So he produced it for cheap, which enabled him to keep doing it. Yeah. So once that became established, it'd be sort of like, hey, you don't need money.

Yeah. So that was the other thing. That was the other thing. That was the other thing. I know. That was the other thing. There's only one Louis. I know.

But they're not going to give anybody money now. Dude, it's so funny because I was at this show, and it was this concert, this free Tibet thing or something, and I was sitting with my wife, and we were in a row, and it's empty. It was just the two of us. So one of the ushers is like, Rami, dude, wow, you bought the row, huh? Just for you and your wife? And he's like, you got the big bucks.

I was like, no. My doctor friends make more money. Everyone's like, oh, you have a TV thing. I was like, no, like my doctor friends make more money. You don't even under, everyone's like, oh, you have a TV. I'm like, no, no, no, this is like Hulu. No, we don't, you know, that's not. That's so funny. The weird kind of a success shame. Yeah.

You know, like. I'm like, no, no, no. I don't have any money. You want to see my. No, no, this is more about like people not buying free Tibet. Exactly. This is a sad thing. Yeah, this is an issue for Tibet.

But even the thing you're saying of that dream of being a comic and wanting a show around you, it wasn't... You've seen enough of our show to see... This was something I fought for in the first season, where there's three episodes I'm not even in. And the more we do the show, I'm less in it. And then even getting to work on Mo, I have found out over the more we do the show, I'm less in it. And then even getting to work on Mo, like,

I have found out over the last four or five years, I much prefer not being in it all the time or not even being in it. Like, I really like the process

of just, like, directing other actors and writing for them. It's way more fun. I'm not sure I want to do anything anymore. Yeah. That's the next,

that's the next time. Is that where I'm headed? You can only hope that you have peace of mind enough or the desire to leave enough. You know, I think it have a bigger job in a way that engages your creativity on more levels. It's fun. Yeah, it's fun. And I really like, again, you know, the first thing I ever did was edit. So I just like that. You know, it's really fun for me. So what was like, you know, how did you feel? Like, I had a lot of

guest stars on my show of one kind or another. And I knew when I started my show that I would have to figure out how to act in a real way as me. And I knew that I would take a hit the first season. And I just, you know, it was a very mature sort of realization. I was just going to say mature. Yeah, I'm kind of going to suck. Yeah. Probably no one will watch anyways. But maybe I'll learn going to say mature. Yeah. I'm kind of going to suck. Yeah. Probably no one will watch anyways,

but maybe I'll learn how to do this. So by the second season, you've got Academy Award winners. Yeah. That you're in it with. Like I'm watching you with Mahersha Ali. Yeah. And I'm like,

how's he feeling about this? Is he really in it? Dude, he's so gracious. It was just like, I was, yeah, there was that thing of, oh shit oh shit you know he's the guy yeah showing up but he's so curious and cool and he had a ton of questions about the script and he was like am i doing he'd go to me like is that

what you want you know so he's so gracious yeah so he's not trying to smoke you in the scene he's actually he's he's kind of just so emotionally intelligent. He's reading the situation. He's saying, this is my role in it. And then how do I fit in with you? They did great, yeah. And so it was really, it was, yeah, just, it was a beautiful thing to do it with him. And that's another dude who was like, it was an emotional project for him because he was like, dude, you know, he used to have a longer screen name. It was like Mahershala Shabazz something Ali.

Like he has a longer name that it was like mahershala shabazz something like he has a longer name yeah that is eluding me right now so but but it you know he told me you know he was on a show right and right after 9-11 they literally cut the number of episodes he was in yeah we're not like it's a weird time right now right you know so for him to go from that to you know playing you know an imam at a mosque and being on a set where like you know we're like oh hey we're gonna we'll be back in five like we're gonna pray and yeah you know that was a big thing for him and so that was really cool to share that with him he was like i can't believe this is the arc of my you know career how many uh like uh like arab americans were on the

set in general was that something you were aware of? Because when I did the reservation dogs, it's all native. It's almost all native, and they couldn't be more excited. Yeah, a lot. I mean, I wouldn't say it's an all, but a lot of PAs, a lot of people in the writer's room, a lot of people in all parts of production. I would say we're probably like half-half.

And your family's good now with you? I would say we're probably like half half and your family's good now with you you know this is you know the process of making you know the show stand up whatever the best part of it is it's my family's only gotten closer that's been what's really cool because I've learned how to take the hit well it's funny because I think we spent so much of our lives like you know being in this place of like, what will people think? What will this, what will that, you know, and you kind of have this. And again, like early 2000s, I just remember the fear of, you know, my parents losing friends after 9-11, my mom feeling weird. And they totally became, you know, as I look back now,

there were things that I think made them like socially reclusive on a level and they don't feel that way anymore. And so I think even stuff that we've done on the show, I think has been processing for all of us. And not that the show is straight up our life again, like it's, it's totally, you know, you know how it goes. It goes through a writer's room, it gets dramatized, but, but I think there's a couple of emotional truths there that like me getting to do that. And then us having real deep conversations about it. I feel my parents, if I look at when I started doing comedy and then to now,

like my parents went from being my parents to being my friends. Like we're friends now. That's good. Which is really cool. And you know, how much, like how big was the writer's room? Were you generating all the basic stories

or because after a certain point, you know, I never know how that happens. You know, my writer's room. Were you generating all the basic stories or, because after a certain point, you know, I never know how that happens. You know, my writer's room was a bit sluggish and old and white

and, you know, which is a mistake in retrospect. But, um, nothing wrong with the old and white.

It's just the sluggish. It can't be sluggish. I think it's all the problem actually with that. It's really, to be honest but uh but where where were you generating stories from were they all because i saw some of

them were in your stand-up yeah i did and i assume you didn't really fuck your cousin maybe you did i did not yeah yeah so but you've talked about having a hot cousin yes so there were some things that were in the stand-up and you were sort of like, let's just play that out. The first season, so much of it's a stand-up. Yeah. I mean, even like we have this, you know,

flashback episode to like young, my character when he's young and, you know, on 9-11 and that was actually a movie idea that I had had

and it was one of those, okay, like, I've only got. That was so great though that they're talking to Osama. That was a nightmare I used to have.

And so shooting that, because that kitchen looks a lot like my kitchen. When we shot that scene, I had chills all over my body because it was lit the way it used to look in my head. I was like, there's always this bluish glow like the TV's on and Osama's looking at me and he's hiding at my house. Because he thinks we're friends. And I have to tell him we're not. That would be the nightmare I would have. And so I was like, Oh, this would be an interesting thing to see in a movie because no one's talked about how much this impacted, you know, just being a kid, but then we're doing a season and I'm like, this is my only shot. I'm throwing everything I've

ever thought of is going into this. So the first season was very much like, these are all the ideas I've been sitting on for years, whether I thought it was standup or a movie or whatever, it's all going in because I'm not you know i mean i don't know if i'm gonna get another swing at this like you know like fuck it and then i'll just force myself to think of better ideas and you know whatever we'll get a room going so every year it kind of i think that kid was great though oh he was amazing he was amazing kid was great he had a look he's just amazing dude he was a genius and he he he came up to me and he was like hey i was great he's just amazing dude he was a genius and he came up to me and he was like

hey I noticed you do this a lot he picked up a tick I did and he was like I'm gonna do that and I was like whoa he was really he's got that thing but yeah every season we kind of the writers always come out see my hour

and then we'll just kind of pull stuff from that and then bring it in, you know. And I'm about to shoot my second special now, but I've, since I put out my first special, I've cycled through like two and a half, three hours of material. Yeah. Because I kind of felt like, I just felt like I wanted, you know. It's a long time ago already. Yeah, I shot that special 2019, so it's, yeah, it's like four years, but, you know. I guess not that long, yeah. It's not that long, but I, yeah,

I'm really happy with that special, but also I was like, oh, I want the next one to, I want to work, yeah, I just want to work through way more material before I shoot it. Yeah? Yeah, and so. Like what, you're trying to push buttons again? Well, I mean, you know, like the getting near the button

you're not supposed to touch is just like my yeah but it felt like that was um that was an experience for it almost felt like you were witnessing like um an experience for the muslim community yeah to have yeah and and community. Yeah. To have. Yeah. And, and people who were tolerant and interested could hang out. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. No, I mean, that's, that's a great way to put it. And I almost in a way feel the same about the show. Like it's never like, Hey, here, let me explain things to people who don't know. It's like, Oh no, these are conversations I want to have from like within the community. You know? Uh, that's why the that's why the anytime the the only insult that ever hurts me is when people are like oh you're just doing this for you know people who aren't us like you're just trying to you know you're just trying to make like white people laugh you're just trying to make america laugh or whatever and i'm like bro no no

this is not this is about our conversations that i think i could contribute something to yeah imperfectly not perfect that's the only critique that ever, like, used to get under my skin, where I'd just be like, ugh. I don't think it feels that way at all. I mean, I think that's just a slight, you know, from people who would rather keep it to themselves. What insult has gotten under your skin the most? In my life?

Doing comedy. Doing comedy? What could be your life oh years ago when i was starting out in boston i was very much angry and very aggressive in my approach and i got off stage and a guy who was like a publicist or had something to do with the local scene in boston you know a guy he comes up to me and he just goes, why comedy? And I really, I didn't know how to answer him

at that time. I think like, you know, oddly, you know, the misuse of the word hack bugs the fuck out of me. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Because all these, you know, you know, bros and dumb shits call everything hack and it's like no you guys are the hacks you're the hacks he's like what is you know that drives me well when i hated open mics like i really tried to avoid them because i was you know you go and uh and it would just be these strange jokes that didn't i was like this will never play in front of real humans. Like this is, everyone in here is so desensitized to comedy. You're all trying to make each other laugh.

Yeah. But it's like, this joke doesn't, it would never work with the general population. Yeah, because it's got, it's like based on what? I mean, I, you know, we all have to deal with that to a certain degree as comics and what we draw from. Because our lives are pretty small in a way. Yes. Do you know what I mean? I mean, we're like, I, you know what am what am i doing over here at least you got a wife you got kids yet no yeah want to well i've had wives but i mean i have no kids but like it gets

to a point it's like what are you going to talk about yeah and if your life is small and you're going to talk about yourself you know i i've been making a about it in my stand-up right now that my next special is going to be called Marc Maron Unrelatable. That's what I'm working towards. I love that. Yeah. But I guess, like, so these stories, though, as you generate, like, how did – because it's weird. You talk about shame and you talk about sex and we were talking about threesomes earlier. But given the nature of your disposition, there's no submissive submissive stuff in there you know there's no you know

episode where you get tied up by a chick the only time it happens is in this weird ass moment with the israeli diamond dealer when you're having a hard time getting it up or your character that's a fucking thing most people would be at this point would be like, you mean my character. You named him you. This is you. I know. Just mistake. But that scene was crazy.

Yeah. Right? Yeah. But that was like a sexually charged, weird kind of, you know, this is the new sort of hard Rami on two levels, I guess. But that's the one you're putting up for consideration, right? Yeah, I think it's one of them, yeah. That second episode where you first go to Israel.

You shot there. Yeah, we did. The whole season, most of it? No, no, no, just that episode. And it was, you know, we, it was a great experience because it was like, Things were hot there, right?

When you were there, wasn't it crazy? It's always crazy. But no, it was particularly, yeah. I mean, it was,

so the part that was great was working with this Palestinian crew there who, they read the script and they were just, they said, really?

Like, they're not going to make you edit stuff out? Like, we're going to be able to shoot this? You're going to be able to say this stuff on American TV? They couldn't believe that this is something that could air. And I said, no, yeah, the network is, they're paying for it.

Like, we can do this. You know, we can. And they were really, you know, yeah, they were really kind of proud to be part of it. So they probably informed the thing a lot, right? They were probably making choices. Big time. Yeah, and the director you know this happened too when we went to egypt every time i go somewhere there's a good script i would

say because it got us there but then we show up and it's almost the opposite of in you know in america you know i'll be shooting something and it's like okay this is the vision of the thing if you're a writer on set you could say something you know but you know we're plowing ahead egypt the guy who you know is handing out tea between takes would be like hey man you know you really should say don't say that say this yeah and i'll take the note you know because it's like this is there like you know he's like what would happen is this thing you go oh okay okay like we're gonna do that for the cousin stuff for your male cousin yeah yeah, yeah, exactly. Like literally any of the actors there, fucking craft service, whoever, the boom guy, anyone can say anything to me. And if it feels sound, I'm going to throw it in.

And that was the experience there with Pal Singh Kru. They'd be like, she would say this, this would happen like this, that would go like that. And then we just, yeah, of course, like the best idea wins. You know, like how do we not do that while we're here? You know, I've been there twice in my life years ago. I find it uncomfortable. And, but it's certainly, I think in a lot of ways, certainly for Arabs, a lot more uncomfortable than it was when I was a kid, there was not a gate. There was not, you know, East Jerusalem was not cut off. There wasn't, yeah. An occupation. Yeah. It's, it's it's and i think like you know while

we were there uh yeah i mean look a horrific human event happened this journalist sharina was killed her murder is still like it was clearly a murder you know done by the idf and it just kind of went away you know and it's and it's it was something that people on our crew had worked with her and and i think the thing that really was so emotional was seeing them have to process the regularity of how these things happen, where it was almost like this thing happens, they're super emotional. And then they're just like, all right, we got to just, we got to keep rolling. It was the kind of thing that here you'd be like, we got to stop. And there they're like, well, if we stopped every time something like this happened, we'd never do

anything, you know? And so just seeing that was, you know, it was, it was, yeah, it's everything. It's heartbreaking. It's inspiring. It's, it just makes you, you know, yeah, it makes you realize just how different life is, you know? And I think part of what was, you know, really great about exploring that episode for me was stepping into the American perspective in a way. Yeah, this weird entitled guy. Exactly. Where like, you know, that it is that moment where it's sort of like, how am I not getting special treatment? And then something happens and make you realize like, oh shit, I, you know, my life could be at risk. Yes. Yes. And, and, and, and fuck, look how entitled I am. And, and to me it was like, again, about like that inner dialogue of just like, you know, my own feeling of guilt as an American Muslim, but actually American first,

right? Because it's like, I grew up here and there are all these things that people go through who aren't here. And so you just always feel that, oh man, like I should be thinking about that more. What could I do? And you feel this like helplessness. Well, what's funny in talking to you though, is that you are not really the character because the character has to be this type of doofus, uh, who, who doesn't have the self-awareness all the time, uh, to, to know how entitled and selfish he is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. You know, but it's not really you, you had to turn something off. Yes. To sort of keep that guy going. That's what makes it a comedy for me. Right. I think like if you, you had to turn something off. Yes. To sort of keep that guy going. That's what makes it a comedy for me. Right. I think like if you, if your character is, is genuinely able to reconcile

what's wrong with them, it's kind of stops being a comedy. Like, I think the comedy is like most comedies that I really love, the character will do anything but fix themselves. Right. But yeah. But your attempts are funny because it's never practical. It's always religious. Yes. Right? You're not going to listen to your friends. You're not going to take any practical advice. You're not going to stop fucking.

You're not going to stop jerking off. But when you do get filled up with some sort of shame, you turn to the idea of religion, which becomes ridiculous fairly quickly. Well, the way he does it yeah and i think like you know a big part of the character is that idea of spiritual bypassing which is like you're going to put all these real tangible things you could do and just focus on you know the spiritual ideas and i think spiritual ideas are very real but you have to marry them with real action and so a lot of people put all their bucket like like everything into that bucket of, okay, God help me, but then they don't want to fix anything that they're doing. And it's like, no, no, you, yeah, believe in God. And I do believe in God. And, you know, there's a lot of tangible stuff you need to be doing, you know, with the spiritual stuff, you know, and I think that's what, you know, yeah, I think I would be, I would probably, you know, even talking about porn, talking about just, you know, the environment that I feel like I grew up in. I don't know that I would feel actually like a healthy person if I didn't have faith.

Like, it is a huge part. in the series by, you know, functioning, you know, grown-up men. Yeah. You know, in your friends and Mo and the doctor. Yeah. Who, you know, who have reconciled their faith with their life. Yes. And have a certain amount of. A code, you know. Code, but mature responsibility.

They're responsible men. They're serious dudes. Yeah, he's not. Right. Right. And you don't know if it's gonna who's gonna get him and smack him upside the head so i don't know what's gonna happen in the rest of this third season so is this it is it for the show yeah um it might be for now i we're kind of trying to

figure it out i mean i think like it's a show that even when we started making it i think after the first season i realized what it took to make a season of TV and how much it takes out of you. And I could- So it's all consuming. It's all consuming. You can't do anything else for a whole year plus. It's a whole calendar year plus. There's no off time

because you're always thinking about it. And then you're editing it and then you're writing it and then you're shooting it and then you're marketing it and then you're back at doing it because you have to. And, you know, otherwise, you know, too much time will go by all that stuff yeah

uh so i remember the first season ended and i kind of like really took that internal look and i was like how many more can i do this yeah i was like i think i could do three or four seasons right that's enough but then i said i would want to put it down and then you know at some point bring it back you know in a sense where it's like what does this guy look like later you know there's never gonna be a time where watching a family trying to balance you know the temporal and the spiritual isn't like a valid conversation to have and i was always like oh we could put this thing down for four or five years and come back and he's like a full-fledged dad you know and and and what does that story look like yeah you know obviously inspired by like you know larry will take off years

and then come back. And, you know, there's all these shows come, like a lot of shows take time to come back. Yeah, but you know what, dude? You know, after a certain point, like who wants them? Who wants? Who cares anymore?

I mean, look, Larry David, he has his formula. It's always been his formula. Sure. So it's like he just keeps doing it and people like it. It's almost kind of like a, you know, it's a standard.

Sure. It's like a slice of pizza that you love it doesn't change right but for me what it would be it would be like and it's been every season it's why we play with the character we play with tone we play with all that it would be can i contribute something new is there something pressing new that i could do with the show right and so my and and and that's different than just doing it because you can't then doing it because you can't yeah and and, and that's different than just doing it because you can do it because you can. Yeah. And, and, and I think that's where even like with doing a fourth, like that's where we've been at too, where we're like, okay, is this the timing to contribute something new? Would we kind of shift off?

That's kind of what I'm in the middle of trying to figure out. So, but answer my question as I have to finish this season, does he change? I think that he gets stripped down and in a way that he hasn't before and realizes like what he's been running from. I don't we don't see the change, but we see, I think, the inflection point of something that could be real faith again. That that's that's like like for the first time. Right. Real faith. Not like it's not just like, you know, I think that's where we we leave this season where it's like, he has this, probably in the first time in the whole series, he has this moment of real faith that's not performance,

that isn't just, you know, perception or him doing what he thinks he should do. He has this like genuine moment that I, yeah, is actually my favorite scene in the whole show. Oh, great.

Well, good. I'm looking forward to it. Good talking to you, man. Dude. Yeah. Thanks for having me. There you go. That was fun. All three seasons of Rami are on Hulu. Season three is eligible for the Emmys in all categories. And you can watch Mo on Netflix. Are we making Emmy announcements? Hey, my comedy special from Bleak to Dark is eligible for the Emmys in whatever category it's in. I don't know.

But it's eligible. All right, hang out for a minute. You can get anything you need with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So, no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats. But meatballs and mozzarella balls, yes, we can deliver that. Uber Eats. Get almost almost anything.

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a question in the episode description by clicking the link and then I'll give you my answers on the episode like this. Who is your biggest celebrity crush? Right now? For years, it was Anne Hathaway and that really hasn't gone away to be honest with you. I also, Mandy Moore had a profound impact on me. I don't know if I kind of crushy, but you know, Anne Hathaway still, you know, still Anne Hathaway. Is that okay? Again, just go to the episode description and click on the link to ask me anything. And if you're not a full Marin subscriber, you can also click the link to sign up for WTF Plus. That's how you can hear all the bonus episodes and get all WTF episodes ad-free. You can also go to wtfpod.com and click

on WTF Plus. I've got to get rid of all this hair on my head, on my face. I'm going to go finish shooting that thing in Canada this weekend, and then I will trim it back. Here's some sort of, I guess, kind of a Skip James thing. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. boomer lives monkey and lafonda cat angels everywhere