WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1447 - Kyle Kinane

Episode Date: June 26, 2023

Kyle Kinane is a comedian Marc enjoys so much, he had him on multiple early episodes of WTF. But at some point, Kyle felt he hit a wall in show business, feeling weary from the demands of constant pitches and the necessities of self-promotion. Kyle returns to the garage to tell Marc where he went, why he lived in a van for a while, and how he wanted to approach making new comedy, including his new special Shocks and Struts. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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See app for details. Lock the gates! Alright, let's do this. How are you, what the fuckers? What the fuck buddies? What the fuck nicks? What's happening? I'm Mark Maron. This is my podcast. What the fuck, Nick? What's happening? I'm Mark Maron. This is my podcast. Welcome to it if you're new here. If you're not, you know how it goes. Just hang out. I hope you're well. I hope everything's okay. I hope everything worked out with that thing you were waiting for. Did you check your emails? You should check your emails. See if that guy got in touch with you. Don't scroll back through the texts because sometimes, you know, you just space it out. Sometimes you answer a text in your head or you acknowledge a text as if it's a one-sided conversation that you're having and it's in your head.

And then all of a sudden, a week later, you know, you scroll back and you're like, oh, my God, my uncle died. So, you know, you might want to just stay on top of that stuff because you might only be getting one missive. Might not be a bunch of people warning you about the same thing. But I mean, this is pretty specific, but it's not so specific. It's hard to stay up to speed. I read emails and sometimes I don't even, I just look at the subject line and I space it out. And like I blew off my lawyer because I just didn't register that. It doesn't, you know what I'm saying.

Just stay on top of it so you don't get into one of those like, oh, fuck. Well, now I'm fucked situations. How's everybody? Everybody all right? I'd like to tell you that Kyle Kinane is back. Kyle Kinane, I always enjoyed Kyle Kinane, you know, what do I call him? A nice demon. And I talked to him like on episode 30 of this show. And then again, I think he was on episode 38 and we had gone to see Avatar and we reviewed it in the car afterwards on episode 38.

But I always liked him. And all of a sudden we're in this position now where the format of our show, for the most part, was only have people once. And there are many hundreds of people that we've only had once. And some of them, it's been over a decade. Wild. I mean, it's been over a decade. Wild.

I mean, it's like some of these people have gone on to be huge stars. Some of them have gone on to have, you know, difficult or amazing lives. Whatever the fact, 10 years is not nothing, especially when you're in your 20s and 30s. And all of a sudden now we're all older people. I don't know how I became older than everybody else, but that just seems to happen. There's this, depending what community you're in where everybody's sort of like, Hey, we're all doing this together. Then all of a sudden, you know, you're about 60 years old and you're saying things like, how are you only 45? Weren't we the same age? But Kyle's back. He's got

a special out, a new one, uh, called Kyle Kinane shocks and struts. It's free to watch on YouTube. And it's funny. Kyle is one of these guys that kind of locked into who he was both in life and on stage pretty early on. And it's pretty solid. It was great to see him. Some other business. It's not really business. This is friend business. My buddy, Jim Loftus, who's one of my oldest friends. I met him as a freshman in college. But, you know, he goes off and has huge, you know, huge life experiences. You know, he used to work on political campaigns. He started with Dukakis.

He worked with Clinton. He's worked with Obama. He's worked with Biden. He's worked for the State Department. He's written and produced a movie in Bulgaria. He was a political consultant in Bulgaria. He bought a boat and sailed around the world. You know, he's I think he's written a book. I mean, it's just the guy lives the life. He's out in the world and he's always sort of, you know, kind of taken the righteous path and gets the world in a nuanced way. Um, unlike many people who ramble on about politics and global events, Jim is a very bright guy and one of my dearest friends. And he's involved with this relief group in Ukraine.

And I told him that I gave it a I'd give it a little attention, give him a give him a little help. It's Vostok SOS. It's a charity working to evacuate civilians who have been under fire since the Russian attack in 2014. So they do, you know, dangerous, life-saving work. They provide food, legal help, counseling, and other assistance and have evacuated more than 50,000 people from war zones. This is a noble effort. And a lot of this stuff is not talked about. It goes unsung and unsupported, and it gets lost in the noise of speculation about what is and what isn't happening. But look, if this is

something you're interested in, if you are of a charitable mind and you are a person that wants to help out with your money, if you want to learn more about it, you can go to Vostok-SOS-USA.org. That's V-O-S-T-O-K-S-O-S-USA.org. Vostok. He's helping out. He's doing real work. He's doing real nonpartisan, you know, decent human, morally righteous work. I mean, for now, we live in a country where, you know, evacuations are generally weather related or domestic terrorist related. fire related, that's weather, climate change, warming related. So, but to live in a war zone for, you know, a decade almost is not something that we are that familiar with. I mean, obviously some people are living in somewhat similar conditions in this country for different reasons, but it is amazing that they have evacuated and helped out, you know, upwards of 50,000 people. So if, if you're curious about the organization, V O S T O K dash S O S dash USA.org. So emotional growth. Now I'm going to lighten it up. You know, there's, I try, you know, I've been doing the vegan thing. It's still happening. And, uh, you know, I, I, I was trying to make some jackfruit tacos and I tried to make some

jackfruit adobada, some, uh, some take. I may, I, you know, ordered some red chili. These become big projects for me. I ordered some red chili, dried red chili from New Mexico. I made the red chili sauce. I got the cans of jackfruit. I strained them. I put them in the sauce. I baked them. And I did some mushroom tacos as well. And I served them to Kit. And, you know, I didn't know how they would turn out. I was kind of winging it. But, you know, how can you fuck up a taco? You just put whatever you put in the taco, then cover it with onions, cilantro, salsa of different kinds, whatever you want. A little avocado, whatever. I'm not a big taco guy, believe it or not. Don't love them. But I thought I'd make them. And we're sitting there and I made them and she ate the mushroom one. She said, that was good. And then, you know, I was a little skeptical about the jackfruit,

how it turned out. I might not have known what I was doing, but she took one bite of it and she's like, nope, don't like that one. Not as much as the mushroom, but that was being diplomatic. She did not like it at all. So where does the emotional growth come in? Well, I think if I were a younger man, I would have been like, well, fuck it then. Fuck it. I'm not even going to fucking cook anymore. Just give it to me. I'll fucking throw it away.

Fuck this shit. Like, I'm not going to cook. It's not worth it. Swear to God, I would have done that. That's how fucked up I was emotionally. But yesterday, I was just sort of like, yeah, you're right. I didn't know what I was doing, but I'll eat it. You don't have to eat it.

Do you have enough food? So I don't know. Can I toot my own horn about my maturing? Fuck it, man. I'm never going to cook again. This is bullshit. What do you even like? To learn a lesson that it seems like a simple one. Hey, just because somebody doesn't love

the food you prepared, that's no reason for everybody to end up crying and somebody storming out of the house. Huh? Good for you for growing the fuck up, you lunatic. It's difficult having mental health issues and emotional issues. But you get older and things change. Look, you know, I have a phone. I see the news. I understand what's happening. And I learned something during the arc

of this submarine tragedy that I'm sure everyone's talking about. Why won't you? The entire world was, it was the classic kid in the well scenario, you know? It's always a boon for tabloid journalism and just human interest. But this was four rich guys stuck in a can,

you know, a couple of miles down in the ocean. And I realized, you know, look, I've had to sort of polish up and kind of nurture and be conscious of, you know, my lack or of, you know, how to stay in an empathetic zone but i one thing i learned from this particular situation is that my my empathy is definitely conditional uh i'm not saying i'm without empathy but i think that many people probably have the same experience i did is that when you heard about this thing you are of course you're going to place yourself in the vessel. Like, I don't know that I necessarily knew who those people were, but like as a human, I placed myself in the vessel. So what was happening to me emotionally

was just the process of thinking about, man, that would be the worst fucking way to be that alone, to be that far under the water, to be with four people in a can and running out of air. So my empathy engaged, but it was really seeing myself in that situation and being like, holy fuck, that's gotta be like the worst.

What are they even doing in there? But I don't even know who the guys were really. I don't know their profiles or anything. I know that they had enough money to spend $250,000 on a janky roadside carnival ride but that aside because i the way i realize this because i don't want to sound like a like a like a morally bankrupt fuck is that like once we found out that the thing just imploded and they were pulverized in milliseconds, it was sort of like, well, that's better, right? That's better than suffocating like that.

Well, at least they went out quick. So the empathy was conditional in that it was really vessel related and, you know, dealing with my own fears. fears. Aside from that, it's really hard to deal with this kind of weird rich guy, you know, uh, you know, space expeditions and, you know, something tourism, I don't know, rich guy tourism. Yeah. I'm not broke, but I'm just not one of those people. Like, you know, I don't, I barely trust airline pilots, but the thing is, is like, you know, years ago when they had the pictures of the Titanic show up, I was like, I saw them and I was fascinated by it. It seemed really fascinating. I saw a little video.

It must have been a decade ago. I don't know when they first got those pictures. But I saw the pictures. I saw a little video. And, you know, I thought to myself, well, that's enough. You know, I've seen enough. I'm not going to, you know, stand with a guy and say like, is it, is it safe? Yeah. Most of the time, most of the time we think we, we got it. It's pretty, there's been a few problems,

but you know, we're, we're good. I mean, look, man, it's, it's like, I have enough money to, to sort of eat where I want to eat usually and shop at grocery stores without really thinking about what I'm buying. You know, I've, I don't have any debt really. And I have no children. I've, I've no, you know, dependence. So, you know, I, and I enjoy a nice, a nice meal, even if it's really expensive and it, and I don't really think about it. That's, that's the level of wealth I'm at. You know, I can buy little things here and there. I'm not extravagant and I, I save my money and I try to be good to the people in my life. But it's much better to be like, holy shit, this is probably the best vegan lasagna I've ever had. We got to come back to this place. That's my ceiling. It's not like, how much does it cost to go to space for five minutes? How much does it cost to go to space for five minutes?

Yeah, I'll get in there. I'd love to see the Titanic through a little hole with four strangers in a can. I'll stick with sort of like, how'd you do the asparagus? How did that work? It's very good. So look, you guys, Kyle Kinane has a new special out called Shocks and Struts on YouTube. It was great. I literally have not seen or talked to him in almost as long as it's been since he's been on the show.

So this is me and my old pal Kyle. Be honest. When was the last time you thought about your current business insurance policy? If your existing business insurance policy is renewing on autopilot each year without checking out Zensurance, you're probably spending more than you need. That's why you need to switch to low-cost coverage from Zensurance before your policy renews this year. Zensurance does all the heavy lifting to find a policy, covering only what you need, and policies start at only $19 per month. So if your policy is renewing soon, go to Zensurance and fill out a quote. Zensurance, mind your business. Death is in our air. This year's most anticipated

series, FX's Shogun, only on Disney+. We live and we die. We control nothing beyond that. An epic saga based on the global bestselling novel by James Clavel. To show your true heart is to risk your life. Will I die here? You'll never leave Japan alive. FX's Shogun, a new original series streaming February 27th exclusively on Disney+. 18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. I'm so out of it now. Yeah.

Yeah, I kind of divorced myself from show business a few years ago. Well, that's what, you know, sometimes I hear your name and I say things like, how is the little hobo? Has anyone seen the Little Hobo? It was out there peddling my wares. Made model airplanes out of old Pepsi cans I'm selling at street fairs. Yeah, I mean, because I looked at the thing and, I mean, I haven't talked to you on the mics since 2009. That was at the beginning.

Yeah, what, was that first year? Yeah, probably. Well, you're welcome. Well, thank you. It was all you. I think I was the direct line to you getting Obama on the show. I think that's true. Or it might go both ways.

I don't know. Maybe a little bit. Yeah. But where have, what have you been doing? Where do you live? I live in Oregon. You do? Yeah.

What part? Just outside of Portland. What happened in that city? Explain to me what's going on there. You know what? I don't know. You do? Yeah. What part? Just outside of Portland. What happened to that city? Explain to me what's going on there. You know what? I don't know, and it's not great. It's a little weird. It doesn't look great here either.

Here's okay. Well, Glendale's not great. When there's water. I'll sit there and read everybody's complaints about, well, this is what we got to do to fix it. I can't. I don't know. I don't either.

I don't think things are good out there no and i and it's the same with san francisco i talk about it more than i should because i don't have the numbers but there are two cities that i used to enjoy visiting and now it seems that the bottom has fallen out of both of them yeah and that's portland and sf yeah and i don't i mean austin was looking pretty nuts when I was back through there too. When? I mean, I played there earlier, well, just at the end of last year, and then I played

there in 21. Well, that's where you have that weird, like, very drastic class. Yeah, it was the Keep Austin Weird, then it seems like all the tech money moved in there. Much like San Francisco, much like Seattle, and the, like, rich people can the keep Austin weird. Then it seems like all the tech money moved in there. Much like San Francisco, much like Seattle. And rich people can't keep it weird. They can go to the shows. Bezos can roll up to Coachella all he wants, but you're not on the ground floor with that kind of stuff. Well, that's right.

But then what happens with San Francisco is that's when tech money pulls out. That's what looks like that. And then they went to Texas. But Texas, then you've got the moneyed, and then you've got the keep it weird, and then you've got literally a fascist government. Yeah, yeah. That rich people don't seem to give a fuck about, as long as they don't have to pay taxes. Well, yeah, because it's going to side in favor of being rich.

What's, I mean, I don't have any answers. And it's grim out there. We talk about it, though. You talk about it. How dare should I be in a good mood? Well, I mean, you can be. It's like, you know, you gotta keep the micro intact. Yeah. The macro's never gonna look good.

Alright. Well, how, I mean... Look, you're talking to the wrong guy. You want good mood advice. I know, but that's, I kinda wanna hear something out of Merritt that's like, you know what? Things are alright. It's hour to hour, dude. You're getting your house painted? I'm getting my house painted, and there's water in Los Angeles. There you go.

Nobody on the edge gets their house painted. That's right. That's like saying to anybody, like, oh, they ran away. No, the fridge is full. But it's hard to, you know, depending on how your brain works. I did a joke recently about my phone, my news feed on my phone, that I didn't realize I had it set to panic. That you have to change the settings of your iPhone.

I love it when the algorithm, like, I feel like it's not following me yeah when it's like oh there's ads for diapers and shampoo i'm like yeah you don't know nothing about me robots i'm out i shook the tail i'm off the grid uh but what so how long do you live in how long you've been up there beginning of pandemic we moved up there. It was... At the beginning of the pandemic. So you were here? It's been three years. Right away, the missus lost her job.

How long have you been married? We're not, but I just said that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, okay. But it's been a while? Yeah, we celebrated our... We had to choose an anniversary. Yeah. And where are you at? Nine years, man. For. Yeah. Okay. But it's been a while. Yeah. It's been like nine. We celebrated our. We had to choose an anniversary. Yeah.

And where are you at? Nine years, man. Wow. Yeah. So there's no shit or get off the pot kind of vibe going on? No. We're like. Okay.

What do you need it for? It's kind of that. Yeah. Until you start considering in about four years, you'll be like, someone will say like, well, I won't be able to visit you in the hospital. Yeah. The gays ruined ruined us getting insurance. I was like, well, I'll put you on my insurance.

I was like, no, you have to be married. Like there's no life partner thing. I'm like, well, thanks a lot, gays. Did they do that? You beefed it for us other ones who just want to love each other off the books. Yeah. You can't. No, it's a sag after.

It has to be marriage. It couldn't be. Oh, really? Partnership. All right. So the pandemic hits. and you freak out? No, she had, her brother was living in a house that her mom owned up in Oregon. He was moving out.

Yeah. They're like, well, we want to maybe fix this place up and have it be like an investment property. It's a small little house in a suburb. Do you want to move up here? Yeah. For the time being, because nobody knows what's going on in the world. I'm like, all right, yeah. Let's go from paying $3,000 a month for an apartment,

which now that is a great deal for that apartment we had. We were in Beachwood Canyon. It was great. Oh, yeah. Where at? It was like Gower, and I forget what the cross street was. We weren't too far up. Up from Franklin?

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it was a nice... Yeah. A garage? Sure. Nobody gets a garage. And you can walk to the Gelson's? Yeah, you know. Kinda. Kinda. I need a $14 grapefruit when I walk down to Gelson's. Wonder what's at

UCB tonight. It's around the corner. That place is open again, apparently. Is it? Yeah, but someone else owns it, but it's still UCB. Someone bought the franchise. That's where that institution is at again apparently is it yeah but someone else owns it but it's still a ucb that someone bought the franchise that's where that institution's at wow you can franchise ucb so much for punk rock yeah punk rock i don't know where punk rock exists anymore does it i mean comedy wise i don't know where at least here it seems like they're putting up shows i went to the glendale room last night which which is just this strange storefront. Right off the main drag by the Americana.

Oh, really? This guy, I read the little description. He's like, yeah, I bought a shipping container full of books over the pandemic. I don't know why, but now I just put them in here and it's decorated with all these old books and it holds maybe 25 people. Really? Right down the street?

Yeah, yeah. No one's asked me to do that. Maybe it might be. What? You may have famed yourself out of some of these gigs. I never went to them. Also, you're not the most approachable. It's not like Marin's famous, but also he's super cool. You scare people, man. No, but I think that's a projection.

They don't know. No, it's not a projection. You think it's a projection. They don't know. No, it's not a projection. You think it's a projection? Well, I mean, I'm a very pleasant guy. I was happy to see you. There was nothing scary. You opened your gate with coffee and flip-flops. I haven't seen you in, like, what?

How many years? It's been about 10. Yeah, and you're just like, ah, hey, we gotta paint a house if you got a house. I was very excited to see you. Man, I hate to see it if you you got a house. I was very excited to see it. Man, I hate to see it if you're bummed out. I was very excited. I like flip-flops. I like flip-flops, Marin.

Well, I mean, I actually had that thought. Like, well, it's Kinane. He probably doesn't wear shorts. And I should probably suit up a little bit. Really? And then I'm like, fuck it. Yeah. Please. I was going to put pants on in my boots then I'm like, fuck it. Yeah. Please.

I was going to put pants on in my boots. I want to see the most comfortable version. This is very comfortable. It was colder when I put on the pavement sweatshirt. This is a high-quality concert sweatshirt. It looks nice. Sometimes you buy concert sweatshirts or T-shirts and they're garbage.

You buy them in a parking lot? Well, yeah. Malchmus. Malchmus put the, I mean, I guess he was concerned about how his fans would feel about the merch. Oh, okay. And it's a high-end bit of business. I still have a Ramones t-shirt that I bought after an actual full Ramones concert, I think in 94.

Aren't those worth like $10,000 now? Not what I did to it. Oh, really? Yeah. Doesn't that add value sometimes? Would you get paint on it? Again, not what I did to it. What happened to it? I think there what I did, too. What happened?

I think there's different types of body odor that are cool and not cool. I don't think I have a cool one. I definitely don't have the cool one. I don't have the cool one in athletic wear because it turns into something, you know, acrid. Yeah. But, all right, so you move into this place. We went up there and it was like May, June of 20.

Yeah. And then we had both places for a few months and then nobody knew what was going on. So we're like, all right, let's just make the move. So it was right at the beginning. Yeah. So by the September of that year, we were up there full time. And what did you really, but was it comfortable? Was it freaked out?

Did you feel a little off the grid better? I don't know. I kind of, I realize i think i can adapt to a lot of situations sure and also i was fine like i said a couple years even before covid i had this moment of all i want to do is stand up i had a couple like close calls with selling shows and everything but but i don't know i just do do you have like the bandwidth to like, you're not trying to pitch shows or doing that. Well, honestly, I'm getting to a point where, you know, I did pitch one and I sold one to FX. And it was just like on a lark almost.

I had one idea. My management was like, do you have any ideas? I'm going, I got this one that I've been sitting on for years. So I brought in my buddy, Sam Lipsight, who's a novelist, and we pitched it. We put a pitch together and a story, and we sold it, and then it didn't go.

And it's a lot, oddly, in parallel development, it's a lot like that show Shrinking that Jason Segel. How does that happen? I write a show about a social worker who's kind of losing his mind because his wife died.

Because my girlfriend died. And then he's got that show. They just parallel. I don't know how that happens. But nonetheless, the point being, when I really thought about it, it's such a time suck, dude, to do a series. After a certain point, you're like, do I want to invest all of my life into this for something that may or may not be watched,

for something that'll be like, will not be in my control really. Yeah. And it just becomes sort of like, nah. It's funny, I was talking to my mom

yesterday, it was Mother's Day, I was talking to my mom and my mom- Where's she? She's in Chicago. Oh, okay. She's not like a,

she loves gambling, but not to like, not in a detrimental way. Like she'll go to Vegas and like she'll lose 300 bucks. Yeah. Like, but she just loves the machine. She loves the excitement of it. So it's not like a financial issue. Right.

But I try to tell her like, cause I don't do Vegas or anything. I'm like, I moved to LA. This is, this is Vegas, but with your dreams. Yeah. That's all it is. And like, and I, how long we got out of like... Step away from the table. Yeah, yeah.

You're going to run out of dreams soon. You're going to start... Put the dice down. I just thought, yeah, I'm not going to act. I'm not going to write. I'm going to play this one game, which is stand-up. Well, it's weird because you're a real stand-up, and I come from that as well.

And there is a pride point eventually. there's an ego thing that we have where when you start going on auditions and stuff and, and you realize like, Hey, you know what? There's guys that could do this easily. And, and for me to say these garbage lines and to pretend like I'm this other person that's limited in this way, it's a stretch. And I feel, it feels dirty to walk out of those rooms. Also, when you walk in and you see the guy who's going to get the job, you're like, he'd be great for this. You should hire him. Now he's hilarious.

I've seen him on a lot of shows. I want to see him in this role. I just came out, I just drove an hour and a half to get to Santa Monica, just thought you should get this guy in here, because he's real funny. Yeah, I put that behind me a long time ago. I mean, there's some acting stuff coming my way. But you get it because they know you and you're like, we wrote this thing for you.

There's a little of that. And that's a nice thing. Yeah, and I've got, I don't know, I've done a few roles and it seems to be happening. I get offers and stuff. But even that, though, for me, it's like, where is it? How long do I got to be there? I'm not the guy who can sit in a trailer every day for months.

I like being home, dude. Yeah, I was going to say, you see so much of everybody's life on display. Yeah. And that's part of the racket now is how you got to get clips. And you got to share your life with people. And I'm going the other way, where maybe 20 years ago, I'm so glad that TikTok was not around. This echoed a sentiment by anybody our age,

but we would a bit look like the biggest. Think about the few things that got taped from your youth and what assholes we look like. Now it was up to my own filter to be like, yeah, print it. Yeah, send it up there. Yeah. So I was doing a show with my pal Dave called the Boogie Monster Podcast. Yeah.

Production company came to us. Yeah. This was like before COVID. Yeah. Like what? Dave who? Dave Stone. Okay.

And we just been doing this podcast, two people, comics, whatever. Yeah. We're having fun talking about ghouls and goblins. Yeah. Production company comes to us. Yeah. They want to make this as a show? All right.

But since you came to us, we get to call all the shots. And we did. And the production company liked our ideas. And then we sold it to, I don't know if it was TBS or something. TBS liked it. And then they put us with a director. And we went to Yuma, Arizona to shoot it. And the director is trying to get these fancy shots.

I'm like, no, you need shots of us talking. Cause that's the show they bought as a podcast. Yeah. TV execs come out and they're like, why aren't you showing more of these guys? Agreed with us. TV executives agreed with us. Yeah. We're like, oh, this is all good fortune.

Yeah. And it went up the ladder to like, yeah, I think it's going to go. And then the main guy in charge of all Comet or whatever left, and a new guy came in. It's the worst. And so we scrap everything, regardless of everybody that liked it in the two years of development. And I was like, I didn't even want that in the first place.

I know. And now I spent two years worrying about this stuff. And all because of executive turnover. Had nothing to do with anything other than, like, the new guy doesn't want old business. Yeah. Yeah, that's happened to me At HBO

It's I The timing element Like you can't even Personalize it But sometimes it's sort of like Why the fuck Am I the guy That loses everything

Because someone got a new job Well and everybody else Willing to play that game Is alright with it But I always go back Like wait no Stand up is what I want to do Stand up is what makes me happy

And frustrates me And I'm going to do it forever. Yeah. So until I'm like, oh, mentally, I need to take a break, which I do. I take vacations. I don't put them online. I don't share everything I do. Yeah.

I've stopped doing that. But you know why? Because you get a lot of people that believe they're your friend and know you, and they don't. Oh, man. And then you have to filter that weird shit. Do you remember the gig that you were doing, the Purple Onion? Yeah.

Wait, in San Francisco. Yeah. And I was in town. I'm like, hey, I don't know if you have an opener. And you're like, yeah, sure, come down. Yeah. And it was right at the ascent of WTF. Yeah, yeah.

And you were getting the baked goods. Yeah, Yeah, yeah. And you were getting like the, you know, baked goods. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And somebody brought like cupcakes. Yeah. And there was a guy in the audience that maybe had like,

maybe a spectrum was involved or something. Uh-huh. And I went up, I ate so much at House of Nanking across the street. Like,

that's like lessons in comedy. I'm like, this is so good. I kept eating. Sure. I kept eating and I got on stage, I was so full. And I bombed because of how, I was like, Full of Nanking? like that's like lessons in comedy i'm like this is so good i kept eating sure i kept eating and i got on stage i was so full and i bombed because of how i was like full and nanking like like

thanks yeah thanksgiving style full and i did it to myself yeah and this guy was like kind of heckling yeah but it was like off yeah the mark right he'd be like you bore me suck my face bring on marin and it was like almost like like this royal court type of like you bore me yeah like all right i get off stage and then the guy started saying something to you and you went back at him a little bit yeah and he just ran up the wrong stairs into the kitchen of the restaurant yeah remember he's like i love you mark baron fuck you mark baron and yeah and you go, does that guy live in my head? And it was like, but he ran up the stairs into the kitchen of the restaurant, not the exit to the club.

He just ran into this security chasing up there. I kind of remember that. But then two people that look like that must be maybe their son. Like, yeah, our son has issues, but he loves comedy. Right. They just calmly went and took the jacket off the back of that fellow's chair, and they both exited the correct way. And I think there was nice cupcakes, like fancy frosting on them.

I think they were from them, and I think they were like, we made these cupcakes, our son may have an outburst. Yeah. And he did. Oh, man. Yeah, that happens, man. And the thing about what you're talking about, having so much of yourself out there, is that you get to know these people somehow.

Yeah. Like, you know, especially the ones that are persistent. Like, you know, I'm like, oh, that guy's here again with his parents probably. I don't know where he was from. But there's nothing wrong with having fans. But how do you maintain some sense of autonomy in personal life where there's these expectations? And also there's these assumptions that like, you know,

I do the podcast. Sometimes I'll do an Instagram live. During COVID, I was doing Instagram lives almost every day because I was in grief and I was losing my mind. And it was a way for me

to stay connected to people. And I used to do them every day. It was like a morning show almost. But I accumulated this- M-O-U-R-M. This fan base that's very interesting. But then if you are, yeah, if you share vulnerabilities about yourself, because you're hoping to connect because somebody laughing at that is them connecting with you,

are you entitled to then put a governor on that interaction? Are you entitled to be like, well, you can like me. I have a hard, I can't, like after shows, I have a hard time meeting fans. Yeah. I hate saying fans. Right. People that came to the show.

Yeah. Because I want to give them my undivided attention. But I don't want to do this line of people like, oh, you're next, like a wedding reception thing. Because that feels disingenuous. Well, they know what's up, though. Yeah. You got to assume that they kind of know, like, well, we're not going to have lunch.

I'm 10th in line. But sometimes they don't. You know, people are drinking at a club, and then one person tells you something, like, very intimate. Yeah. That's like, oh, yeah, let me give you a few minutes. And then a drunk guy comes from 3 o'clock. Man, you said that joke about you shit your pants,

and I do that. And you're like, well, I also like that guy. That guy also deserves part of my time, too. Not as much time. Well, I'm the one who shared shit in my pants with people. Yeah, but that's a short conversation. Not so like, yeah, buddy, all right, buddy. But those are the much longer conversations.

Yeah, but there is a governor. The governor is that they're holding their phone. You have no relationship with them other than the one that everyone else who's holding their phone watching you has. But for some reason, there's a moment where some people cross over into he's talking to me. Yeah. And that's a real thing, dude, that parasocial interaction. Yeah. And it's intelligent people, too.

Not like, you know. But there's something going on with loneliness, with isolation, with I don't know what's happening. But it's not great. And the interconnectivity is not helping it. It's not helping it, but I think it always existed. You saw people passing out at concerts. Sure. Blacking out over panic over somebody. Maybe it's better.

Maybe now see, maybe somebody like showing a picture of them, you know, at the Chevron station filling up their Honda. It's like, oh yeah, I don't need to black out at this guy's concert. He has a Honda CRV. Right. He's just a person. Yeah. That guy.

Well, all that stuff still exists. My buddy's got a daughter who's a Taylor Swift person. And it's crazy. It's crazy. I can't even imagine liking somebody that much. Can you? You ever come close to like? To being a real fan boy? Yeah.

Yeah. I am of some people. But it shifts pretty quickly once you meet them. I mean, Jesus Christ. You've met everybody. You've interviewed every person. But I still am kind of a stones guy yeah it's still real and it doesn't go away yeah but but but so that's as close as I got

and you can hear what that sounds like when a man in his 40s sits down with Keith Richards you can hear it there's evidence of me going oh my god yeah does it I! That does seem like, I don't want, you know, are they alive too long? Who? The Stones? I don't know. I think with Keith, he's become sort of funny and kind of onto himself.

And he's never seemed happier. So, I mean, maybe he's been alive too long. He did play a pirate. Sure, man. He is a pirate. But that's what I'm saying. You've got to have a sense of humor about yourself. What I used to talk about is the fear of them falling down.

But now with Keith, what's funny is when you watch him, and I don't go to a lot of the shows, but I ended up at one of the last shows they did on the last tour. Yeah. And you don't even know if he's going to make the cord. He'll get his neck hand around it, and then he'll cock his right hand, and you're like, it's going to happen, and he'll hit it, like crunk, and you're like, oh, yeah, perfect.

It's like loading a musket. You're not sure everything's lined up. You got enough gunpowder in there? Exactly. So there is something about that. There is something, well, I don't know if they've lived too long, but when do people. It's a terrible thing to say. Not really.

But what you're really trying to say is when do you stop performing? When is it unnecessary? I mean, I'm 46 and like I make jokes like I just avoid mirrors. I feel, you know, everybody feels younger than they are. Yeah. I feel great. I look at myself. I'm like, oh, God, somebody.

Is in denial. Yeah. I feel like, yeah, like I got mixed up in like with the wrong clothes for witness relocation. Like, oh, we thought we had a teen son moving into this apartment, not you. I don't know how to dress. But I have recently been seeing like, you know, and I talk about on stage about I see it in pictures of me. I'm like, when did I get a, when am I, how old am I? Yeah.

Oh, I hate seeing pictures. Yeah. Because then you're like, oh, my God, I'm a little old man. Yeah. I'm like, when did I get a, when have I, how old am I? Yeah. Oh, I hate seeing pictures. Yeah. Cause then you're like, oh my God, I'm a little old man. Yeah. I'm 59, dude.

Really? I'm 50 fucking nine. I don't know when it happened, but everyone's younger than me. Like, how are you 46? Now, do you,

now here's the thing. Do you, are you curmudgeonly towards the people that are younger than you? No. This is, that's the ticket. That's the ticket to old man's bills.

Like, oh, because I don't get it, it means it's wrong. I still don't understand that there's that big an age difference. I don't know how it happened. I don't think I ever noticed it before. But now that I'm 59 and you're like 46, that's still a lot of years. I was the youngsters.

I think you gave me some hell when I was hanging around. Right, but when did it become, like, because when you're 59 and everyone's still got their 40s ahead of them, that's like all of a sudden you feel old because of the numbers. But before, I never did. But, man, let's look at it this way. You seem so sad to entertain my ideas. What?

You're like, what? Like, what? No. What about when somebody's 80 and they're like, you're only 59? Yeah. Oh, I was just learning to ski at 59. I guess so. Like, look, you You gotta look that way. I look at all the people

that are doing the things that I want to be doing now, and they're 60 and they're doing them. Because, you know, I like the finer things in life. I was eating at Island's Burger over here when I got in yesterday. It's just a Hawaiian themed burger chain. Really? I didn't even know about it.

Of course you didn't. You're not an Island's Burger guy. I can't see you going down. You're dressed like it, but I can't see you going down to Islands. I've eaten my share of shit occasionally. Yeah, well, I still do.

I'm still an In-N-Out guy. I used to be an In-N-Out. I've been doing a thing with my food now. You've been doing a thing with your food? Yeah, I'm kind of veganing. What a precise statement.

I'm veganing. Oh, yeah? Yeah, I'm in my fourth month. Good for you. I've been vegetarian with some slip-ups for years. You mean like yesterday at Island Burger? They got the fake stuff. Oh, really?

It's not bad, right? I still eat shitty. Yeah. I just don't eat meat shitty. How long has it been? Years. I break edge here and there. I'll take a nibble if something looks exceptional.

All right. So you're there? Where were we going with that? I forgot. Oh, I was trying to say I've eaten it. But it, so you're there. Where were we going with that? Uh, I forgot. Oh, I was trying to say, I mean, but it's like a surfing thing. There's all these people surfing.

I'm like, I want to learn to surf. One of these days, I'm going to learn to surf. And they show like, you go to the beach and there's dudes that are 70 years old out there.

They're not like going crazy, but they're doing it. And so, why not get excited about that? I do that all the time, but like, sometimes it's enough in my mind because I've gotten to this age where I'm like, wait a minute. Am I really going to do that? So you want to learn how to surf?

My buddy Dave Anthony, he does it. So you're going to get up at 5. Dave surfs? Yeah. You're going to get up at 5. You're going to get your wetsuit. You're going to drive fucking a half hour, 45 minutes down to the beach. You're going to schlep your shit out into the water

and sit there for hours waiting for something? I can't. You and Dave Anthony surfing. Just the shittiest attitude in a sport that's supposed to be so mellow. I can't imagine you two guys. Oh, look at this one with all the seaweed. Right. I think we're both secret softies.

And I think outside of any public facing Dave, I think he's a fairly sweet guy. I know. I think we're both secret softies. And I think like, you know, outside of any, you know, public facing Dave, I think he's a fairly sweet guy. I know, I know. But people only know public facing Dave a lot of times. Oh yeah, that'd be hilarious. But yeah, he goes out. I didn't know he was a surfer. He does go out and do it. I don't know how good he is. I don't know if he gets up. I've seen no footage. He's not a competitor. Yeah, it has nothing to do with it. Maybe it has nothing to do with it. It's just all about sitting in the water. Yeah. Like people golf. Like I finally, I don't golf. I know because I'm so scared of inconveniencing somebody else's day with how poor I am at it.

How about looking like an asshole? Is that the same thing? Which part? Okay. I'm going to put to you, do you dance at, do you dance at weddings? A little. Okay. A little, but you probably think you look silly if you dance, right? Who looks the silliest at a wedding? The guy sitting by himself at the table not dancing. Yeah, I guess. I look silly driving by a golf course going, look at all these jerks having beers with their friends and laughing.

Driving around. I'm in my car doing a chore. But is golf the thing, dude? It's a thing. And then these guys are like, we don't give a, we don't keep score. Pick up the ball. You don't even have to golf. Just come with us.

No one's taking you out? I just haven't gotten off my ass to go early in the morning. To get a, do you have friends? It's similar. Yeah, I got a couple. That do golf? Yeah. They should get you out there.

I should, but I'm afraid of it. I'm doing my own silly shit. Like I have. What's your hobby? I still ride bikes. I'm still falling down mountains on bikes. Mountain bikes? Yeah, yeah.

Like a hike? Yeah. But those kind of hobbies, as you get older, you can break a hip. You can break a thing. Makes you feel young when you don't. Come on, Mark. We're going to get you. Do you wear the outfit?

Not that. Like the unitard or the sweatpants? No, no. I got... Or the tight things? No, I got bike diapers. Bike diapers? Yeah, it's like padding that, you know, protect your jennies.

But other than that, it looks pretty normal. I watched a special, and they're like... You have the same experience that I do about hotels, where it's like at some point, you're traveling on the road, and staying at hotels became the best thing possible. Yeah. Like before it was like, where am I?

I'm on another planet. Can I jerk off on the floor? But now... Who are you asking this? Myself. Okay, okay. You call it the front desk? Yeah.

Is it okay? This place looks pretty lousy. I noticed you didn't take a security deposit. But I have that exact same experience that you talk about where you're like, it's clean. And you don't have to worry about it. And it's quiet if you're lucky, if it's not a fucking nightclub hotel. Yeah, somebody like, oh, we got you a room with a W.

Well, change it to a Hampton Inn because I don't want to be on the floor. I don't want a wristband to get to the pool. Or the entire building shakes, and they don't give a fuck. Yeah. I guess no one's in it to just sleep for their work thing anymore. Yeah. Oh, you get a discount at the coffee shop. I don't want that.

I want the stuff I'm going to make with sink water in my room. That's what I want. I want sink water brew. So what's his story with that van? I was a... Do you still have it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, what is it?

It sweeps too? Yeah, it sleeps too uncomfortably. Yeah. You It sleeps too? Yeah, it sleeps too uncomfortably. Yeah. You know, biblically, it sleeps too. Okay. I bought it off a guy. It was beginning of pandemic. It was beginning of 21.

Yeah. Nothing was open yet. Yeah. And there was all this uncertainty. Yeah. And I was like, well, if I got to go door to door, like if I got to go knife salesman style, I'll just be like, hey, I'll roll up in your driveway.

I'll open the side of the van. Bring your friends over that you feel comfortable with. I'll do the show. I'll close up shop and I'll get going. Did you do that? I started and then I wound up booking these shows because I would like, the first tour I ever did in 2010, probably when we first worked together down in Atlanta,

was part of that. Where at Laughing Skull? At Laughing Skull, yeah. Where I was just like, I'll use the internet. I'll just say, like, I'm coming through this town. I had one album out at the time. Yeah. If you, whatever you got, I'll play it.

Yeah. And so I just went back to that mentality at the beginning of COVID. Like, all right, whatever you got going on, I'll come to a show. Yeah. I mean, I still want to keep safe. Yeah. As soon as I started driving out of Oregon, like California, Central California, it's like, oh, everybody's kind of getting loose. This was May of, so this was two years ago.

It was May of 21. Okay. And you saw how the regulations were loosening up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I went through Texas and everything, and nobody gave a shit down there. Yeah, Florida, I don't think the pandemic happened for a lot of those people. No, no.

People just, it was time to meet Jesus for some of those folks. It was all terrifying. I took a COVID test this morning because I felt a little congested. I always forget that I seem to have allergies. They're not confirmed, but in the spring, I'm always like, do I have a cold? Am I dying? Is it COVID?

It's been a while since I took the COVID test. Yeah, I haven't taken one in a while. Yeah, and I took one because I didn't want to give you COVID if I had COVID. But there's that, you know, you really don't want to take it. You know, there is that 15. I will still, I still cover the test for the 15 minutes. Yeah, because I want to reveal. Oh, you like the surprise?

You don't want to see the line creeping up in it? No. I want to confirm results. Yeah, I want a surprise. Because you keep weighing your options with each one. Yeah, yeah. It's at this point, it's like if you take a COVID test and you have it, like what if you didn't take the test and you had it

and you went out living your life? Well, that's what's happening, sure. Yeah, would that be as? Well, I don't know when it becomes just sort of another cold. But there is some, if you're dealing with other people out of respect, I mean, I guess people still die of it. And it's still worse than a cold, I guess. But no, it's got to be all around on some level.

I admittedly have kind of like... Slacked? Yeah. Did you get it? I finally got it over Thanksgiving, yeah. Oh, recently? Yeah. That's not that recently.

How was it for you? I didn't know. I was traveling on the road and came back feeling a little sniffly and like, well, let's take one. Because all my family was coming to Oregon for Thanksgiving. That's it. Yeah, yeah. And are there oldies? Yeah.

Yeah. And I got to spend it in a Hampton Inn because I had points. And everybody came to Portland and just did their own thing. Yeah. And you were isolated? With COVID, yeah. Well, that's the weird thing. That was the worst thing about having it was like, you know,

I had to wait until you test out of it. And that can take like 12 days, 11 days to test out. Yeah. So I was sort of like in the zone up in my house. Like, God damn it. Kind of losing my mind a little bit. But it's weird what happens at about day seven. You're like, I got to go to the supermarket.

I don't give a fuck. I'll mask up. I'm going out with the people. Which somebody's doing that today. Yeah, yeah. But you can't rationalize everything. Yeah, I don't know. Can you?

Sure. I'm pretty good at it. But my point was, like, I do like traveling now. Yeah. So wait, the van. Because, like, I'm trying to figure out what to do with the rest of my life. Should I get one of them? Yeah, let's find out about you on this one. No, should I get a van?

Do you like driving? Yeah. You do? Yeah. But what'd you do with it? Did you camp? I think, yeah, the beauty of it is that you just pull over wherever you want. Because McConaughey did that. He had an Airstream. But that seems like a big ordeal. Yeah, I think he was operating on a different level. Yeah, the money and the mindset level.

McConaughey is not looking for answers because he's in a dark place. Yeah. Yeah, I think he's always jacked up and engaged with life in a very positive way. Yeah, I don't think he was buying a van off of a first-time builder who did some very creative plumbing. Yeah, half of that summer was me spent in the van just trying to stop a beeping noise. Really? Yeah.

He built it for himself. What do you mean? He made the van? He built out the van. It wasn't made by a company. It was built out by one guy. It's a unique thing. It's a one-of-a-kind.

Yeah, those aren't always the best. That means nobody else knows how to fix it. It's a unique thing. It's a one of a kind. Yeah, those aren't always the best. That means nobody else knows how to fix it. That's what it means. Yeah. It's a treasure map for treasure only you're looking for. Yeah. No, he did a fair enough job, but he's like, he thought he was going to live in it, then met a lady. The lady's like, well, I'm not going to live in a van.

So then he's like, I'm going to sell this van. It was the beginning of the pandemic. He was going to live in it. Well, I met him to sell this van. It was the beginning of the pandemic. He was going to live in it. Well, I met him bike riding. Yeah. And listen, a lot of people are living in vans right now. I know. And not in a romantic sense.

No, there's something going on over. Right, there's something going on over on Forest Lawn Boulevard. I don't know what that is. Forest, they all moved over to Forest Lawn. They used to be on Silver Lake Boulevard, and they booted them out of there because people started paying a lot of money for those houses. On Silver Lake. Now, Forest Lawn, for people who don't know, just borders a studio and a cemetery.

Yeah, and they're all there. Yep. Those are just people living off the grid, basically. I don't think by choice. No, I know, yeah. You'd think you'd pick a different place. By choice, you'd pick a different place. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Those, you know, I'd park along. I wouldn't park with those. Those people have a pretty territorial. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So those, you know, I'd park along. I wouldn't park with those. Like, those people have, like, are pretty territorial. Yeah. But you should get a, like, if you like driving, you seem, I mean, you're romantic. You enjoy views of the world. Yeah. You know, views of the country that you would like.

And the idea, like, just pull over anywhere. And sleep. Pull over in a desert. Yeah. But you didn't get nervous about, the idea, like, just pull over anywhere. And sleep. Pull over in a desert. Yeah. But you didn't get nervous about, you know, like the desert tweakers? I got nervous in Austin. I was like in front of the creek in the cave.

I'm like, all right, what's the great thing about the van is I can have some drinks. I was asleep, but it was, and it was across from a police station. I was like, man, I do not want to have to deal with somebody just, they're also targets. The problem with those vans is that they're targets because like, oh, somebody's got all

their stuff in there. Oh, right. Because they're living in it. Right. Any van. Yeah. Well, that's scary. But there's a few places I parked where I was like, you know what?

I'm going to get out of here. You just hear, you don't have a sight line and you just hear it. I don't know if you've ever like camped by yourself. Are you armed in the van? I was for that one, yeah. Yeah? Yeah. I've got a few things laying around.

You're ready to go? You get into that gun stage of life yet, Mark? Close. Yeah? Yeah. Don't trust yourself with it? Oh, that was on the special. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That was on the special. That's why, yeah, I don't trust myself with myself with it. Yeah. How about you? That was the joke I was doing about it. If you never grew up, having a gun in the house is like having an iguana. Yeah.

Because you're just in the house knowing it's also in there. Yeah, yeah. That's right. It's right there. Man, I'm going to go mess around with that gun a little bit. Let me go see what it's doing. I grew up with guns in the house. Did you?

No. My dad had guns. He was like, but I don't know why. He's just this crazy old Jewish doctor, but he amassed quite a few handguns at one point. Yeah. Yeah, and I think they're all out of the house. He's got dementia. I'm doing a bit about it now.

There's one in the house now that's unloaded, and his wife has to sort of, she's afraid to get rid of it. He's going into the dementia, but if she moves the gun, apparently it's something he checks on fairly routinely. Oh, that's just the decoy. Just to make sure that the gun's still there, but there's not loaded. I grew up with a buddy that was

like that. We'd just be playing hide and seek, and every house was like, look at this. Look at this. Look at this. I'm like, oh, wow. I grew up in New Mexico. I saw guns in high school. Yeah. Some guy in a fucking art class showed me a.38 that he had in his pocket. Really? Wow, Jesus Christ.

How was he as an artist? I think he was like the TA. He didn't seem to be really in it. Okay. And it was a very rigid art class. This guy, remember him, Mr. Donaldson, had us drawing basically the diagrams of faces. There was a way to draw the oval.

Oh, with the cross and where the eyes lie. That's right. Oh, so the... Yeah, there was a way to draw the oval. Oh, with the cross and where the eyes lie. That's right. Oh, so the... Yeah, there was, like, you know, a lot of that going on. The beautiful free spirit. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Know the rules before they break the rules. That's right. That guy. Not very exciting. Well, at least you get to see a gun. Would you...

Where'd you go, though? Like, where did the special open? Was that in New Mexico? Or was that driving into Utah? That was, I think that was coming out of Arizona. Might have been outside of Vegas going down into Arizona. Why'd you choose Utah? Because I like Utah in a weird way.

I like Salt Lake and you chose to do a special there. I always like working there. Yeah, that club's great. And I was going to do it at the- Keith's Club? Yeah. Wiseguy. Yeah.

Did you shoot it there? Yeah. How did you make it look like that? Jonah Ray. Jonah Ray made it look like that. Really? He directed it, yeah. How'd you get rid of that weird, kind of feels like an empty brunch restaurant?

Yeah. How'd you hide that? Jonah- It was the one downtown? Yeah. Jonah went up there early, and. It was the one downtown? Yeah. Jonah went up there early and they're like, yeah,

we're going to do lights here. We're going to do. Wow. It didn't even look like that place. They did a lot with a little. Yeah. And so, yeah,

they made it look real cool. I just, I just remember playing there and having good vibes because I think, you know, you get the Mormon happenings,

you know, all the church up in Salt Lake. But then you have enough people that are like tech people and outdoors people that still want fun things to happen. And also Jack Mormons. So the Jack Mormons, the people that are lapsed, what they leave with is they're still nice people. Like Mormons are kind of pathologically nice people. They are. So Jack Mormons?

Yeah. New Jack Mormons? What are you calling them? Jack Mormons are Mormons. I believe it's called the Jack Mormon that quit. Oh, I didn't know the term. Yeah. are so when jack jack mormons yeah new jack mormons what are you calling them jack mormons or mormons i believe it's called the jack mormon that quit oh i didn't know the term yeah yeah the missus she's got mormon family oh yeah so yes yeah they're ones that they're out of the game i believe if i'm not mistaken yeah that's and they're very pleasant people and all the people you just mentioned are pretty pleasant people like when you go to salt lake and you perform

you really want that place. I was talking about it. There's this idea that it's hip and that they're embracing diversity and stuff, but I always say when I'm there, I'm like, it's only because the church is letting you.

It's a cash cow. This is not some sort of progressive, this is not a blue city. This is a storefront for a cult. Latter Day Saints just got sent up for having shell companies.

Oh, did they? Yeah, I just read a blip today. Oh, really? That guy there getting sent up. Those temples are very impressive to look at architecturally. I don't know. There's something very odd about performing and hanging out in this country's only functioning theocracy. I mean, that state, and it's shameless.

The church owns this, and this is their town. But it's clean. It's weird. And I always like the audiences. So it's one of those things. Is the niceness, do you welcome the niceness? Or is it just because they know Jesus is watching or Joe Smith is watching, And so then they're being nice. Like what do you take it for the face value? I do because like, I, I feel like, I don't know how many practicing Mormons I met. I don't know

how many practicing Mormons come to the show, but I know there's a lot of Mormons that are on the edge of it. And the church is sort of, I think being a little lighter on them. So there's a little bit of a casualness to it. And they have a sense of humor about it. But I do think they're all pretty decent people. I mean, if there's one thing you get out of Jesus, whichever Jesus you're going to choose to follow or whatever context of Jesus it is, if it's that you treat people better, fine. Yeah. There's nice bits of religion.

I mean, there's still – you ever meet like a Catholic now and you're like, what's, how? What are you doing? How did you pick this? Well, I mean, it's funny because there's so much denial built into that and guilt that now the level of denial that you have to have to keep enjoying that religion or stay on board. You really got to like the tradition to overcome, you know, a couple of centuries of child molestation. It's, we really look the other way with. Holy fuck.

Well, I mean, that's the argument everybody has always like, well, who's grooming who? It's like, well, there's a Catholic church everywhere you can be protesting if you're really upset about the kids. Oh, yeah. Totally. That whole thing is like mind bending. How institutionalized it was. I mean, my friend Isaac Fitzgerald just wrote his book called Dirtbag Massachusetts and it's about growing up.

Where? Which where? Where in Mass? He grew up outside of Boston, but it's all about how he has mixed feelings about the Catholic Church because of the generosity. Like his family was down on their luck and they that community provided a lot yeah for a family that was like you know out of work yeah but then also how he was playing in the church one day and was playing like the attica some the rectory and the priest was up there like oh you guys are playing up here and somebody else from the church like all right everybody like

scolded the kids but really the reason was they didn was that guy, that priest was the one. They knew. Yeah. So the people there knew. Yeah. And they kept him there. Fuck. And just kind of looked out for the kids.

Yeah. And there were stories. I was Catholic. Nothing happened to me, but there was one of those things. Everything just sounds like a rumor. Oh, he's a priest. He's probably a pedophile. How many are really?

Yeah. A lot. That's got to start a whole rumor. Yeah. It turns out a whole bunch. Turns out a whole bunch of them. So where'd you go in this van? Did you do the whole country?

Yeah, whatever. I started Oregon, down to LA. Yeah. down to LA, out to Vegas, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, Arkansas. How was that, Arkansas? Arkansas is great. Yeah? Pretty?

You ever been to Bentonville, Arkansas? This is, okay. So that's Walmart country. It's one of those places that I've just not done anything in. It's because you'd think, why? Bentonville, you want to talk about it. Here's the give and take of capitalism. So Walmart, that's the headquarters.

Yeah. Oh, it's like Fayetteville, Bentonville area. Yeah. They are putting so much money into that town to make it attractive for people to live because they want people to work at Walmart headquarters. Right. So when I went there, it's a big mountain biking place. The Walmart, the heirs to Walmart are mountain bikers. So they dump millions of dollars into mountain bike trails around that whole city.

Really? Are there mountains? There are, yeah. So you know, you got the Ozarks and everything down there. I hear that's like there's a lot of pretty resorts and shit in the Ozarks, right? It is. I mean, it was, I mean, what is it,

like Hillbilly Catskills or whatever they're called? Yeah. Yakov Smirnoff, still out there. Have you had Yakov on the show? Sure. Yeah? But he's in, what's that town? Oh, he's in Branson.

Branson. His theater is also a church. It is? Yeah. What does he have? Yakov Smirnoff. His theater's a church? He has a theater.

He owns it, but he rents it to the church? Yeah, but it's a church during the day. Wild. And that's because he's leasing it? I didn't dig into the paperwork. I just know I went by there. I'm like, here's the Yakov Smirnoff. I believe he's a Russian Jew,

so the church thing is a little outside of the... Well, Branson's about marketing. I get it. I don't know if you know. Yeah. Branson's about getting your face on stuff. So you're in the Walmart capital there? And you liked it.

It was good. I think you could start a business without paying any rent. In Arkansas? In Bentonville. Okay. Without any rent on the land for three years until you start turning a business. They have a museum called Crystal Bridges. Yeah.

Which is, I think, ranked one of the best American art museums. And that's the Walmart family? It's the Walmart family. Isn't that interesting? I think I heard about that. Yeah. I heard about the museum. That in the middle, I guess, I find that all my assumptions about these places are usually

a little off. People, they're relatively good people everywhere. Well, that's why a van trip for you might serve you good. Well, no, I get out there and I believe that's true. But I'm not going to fly to Bentonville, Arkansas. But the fact that I'm driving from one place to another and here's this city. Just doing shows?

Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to stop there. And I know folks in Little Rock. Yeah. So now I know all these places I can play. Yeah. Or somehow in between two cities, I'll put the

flag up on the internet like, hey, I'd like to play this town. And somebody- What do you got? Somebody put a show together in um albuquerque at some weird cosmic cafe it was called i grew up in albuquerque yeah but it was last minute they put it together like the day of and there's a cosmic cafe yeah there's still like 60 people there it was good i wanted yeah who put it together i can't remember yeah huh a comedy a comic in the city yeah and i wasn't

doing it for money i wasn't trying to make money i was just like i need to keep i need to do comedy and this is during the pandemic yeah i need to perform i'd like like you know you said you were going nuts around here i was like i gotta get out i gotta do the thing yeah i went up to taos for a few days i didn't i didn't travel a lot a lot during the early part of the pandemic or that period of grief. But I did go up to Taos and I did get out in the world a bit. But it was so terrifying. I just remember driving out there to Taos and stopping at a truck stop, you know, to get gas right as you're leaving California. Yeah.

And just being paralyzed with fear to go in there. Oh, yeah. Like had gloves on. Had a mask. I'm like, this is where it's gonna happen. And then, that is also scary

because I'm going to places with a mask on where they're looking at you. Yeah, yeah. What are you, a pussy? Where them plates from. Yeah. Oregon.

All right. I can't. I don't know, dude. But your whole closing bit is sort of about reconfiguring your assumptions about people in the special, in the news special. I like when I think somebody's a

monster, kind of redneck, and they turn out to be gay. That's my favorite one, where you're like, that guy's going to be trouble. And then after the show, they're just like, hi. But it also goes the other way. Some of these gay dudes are also monster rednecks still. Some of these are still like, you want to go shoot snakes?

Is that literal? In fact? Yeah. I'll do the first part with you. Not so much on the second, but I guess that's true. But you do never know. That was a pretty funny story, the Joshua Tree story. Yeah.

That's my new premise is that people have a fight or flight response, and I have this third response, which is like, I don't know. Let's stick around, see what happens. It's not self-preservation. I should not any bit of common sense and say, don't go with these guys. Right. Yeah, but. Yeah, fight or flight or just sort of like, I got nothing going on.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't have to get up early or nothing tomorrow. Yeah, sure. Let me go watch this girl put cocaine up her butt on some pier we went to because we were supposed to be able to see alligators. What? I just saw a girl put cocaine in her butt. Did that happen?

Yeah. Where did that happen? It's Alabama. Where else? That didn't make this special. No. They're just like, we're going to go to this place called Scary Pier.

I'm like, well, the lack of originality in the name. We went. To see alligators. Yeah, it was after the show and everybody's drinking. I'm like, oh, we just go stand there. You see their eyes in the name. We went. To see alligators. Yeah, it was after the show, everybody's drinking, like, oh, we just go stand there, you see their eyes in the water at night. I'm like, yeah,

that's something you do in Alabama. Yeah, sure. So I agreed to that part. Yeah. And everybody's walking out, there was some beers and everything, but then there's some girl like, there's not enough left for everybody,

so I'm just boofing it. And I see her like, turn the baggie inside out and just thumb it in her ass. I'm like. Boofing it. There was a name for it. Yeah.

And I'm like, there's other ways to do that. Like that's a real, like, oh, nobody's looking. I guess I'll try this way to do cocaine. Well, generally you lick it, but I guess, but there is. There's kids these days. No, but it's like paragoric. There's like opium suppositories. What is it?

Dilaudid. You got it. Yeah, the ass has always been a pretty popular way to get chemicals into the system. Yeah. You don't want to get to that point.

But not just like in front of everybody on scary pictures. Yeah, there's some kind of weird story about Stevie Nicks that her... I guess we don't, I guess we don't really need to do that story.

All right. Well, no, it's just that once you're, you break your nose with blow. Yeah. And if you don't want to boot it, you know, you got to get somebody to blow it into your asshole. Oh, so that's the same kind of, yeah. Yeah. It's.

You don't want to get there, Kyle. I mean, it's enough to see it as a cautionary tale. Yeah, and we didn't see any alligators either. So it's not like, oh, well, at least these alligators are a memory I took back from this. It's like, no, I just saw this girl put cocaine. And everybody's standing around afterwards like, well, we didn't get any cocaine, but you did. And there's no alligators. Well, I mean, but I think that you got the best possible

experience out of that i mean alligators an alligator how often you're gonna see someone boof it yeah i was really excited about the alligators though so how does like so leaving show business for you what does that mean really you're up there but you what it's not like a it's that i just do stand-up. Right. Everything goes into stand-up. I don't live in like. And you got a good draw, right?

You can sell tickets everywhere. People like you. I'm not a superstar, but like. Yeah, me neither. It's, but I mean, you're doing well. You know you're doing well. I know where I can sell tickets. You're not a stadium.

That's what I always say. I'm not a stadium. I think we're at the late 80s hair metal level of comedy right now. Like it's feeling a little bloated. And I feel like. They keep coming. Who's making. Like it's.

The bubble's got to burst, don't you think? I don't know. Because it's not fueled by money. So how is the bubble going to burst? You got a bunch of fucking kids out there just posting TikTok videos. You can sell, you know, 50 to 100 tickets places or whatever. I don't know how it bursts if it's not a money-driven thing. There's, it's always money though.

I guess. But I mean, like, but is it? There are so many. Because those TikTok, they don't even, they don't give a shit about. But I'm just saying there's everybody. And this was, this is where, this is who the cranky old man has been since the beginning is that it's like you know you're not a comedian just because you say you are you're not a comedian because you have 10 minutes yeah or or tiktok videos you know there was at some point you know i used to get pretty prickly about the idea that in order to be a

comedian you've got to do the time for money yeah right but it but this for years it's not been like that so i don't know how a bubble bursts when you got thousands of kids out there just doing bad jokes and crowd work, calling themselves comics. I think that the general public's interest in stand up will wane. I don't know. It feels pretty hot right now. And it's like a different type of crowd because I'm going to store a lot. That's where I work out. It's the only place I work out. And it's like these audiences are I can feel it. They're coming for relief. They're not coming to sort of like, I wonder if this is going to be good. They're literally like, help us. I feel,

I still feel a little bit of help us there. Yeah. Because, you know, we've lived through a lot, but also like things aren't getting that much better and there's still this sort of, yeah, you know, this current of panic. And I think that people are really kind of needing it. Like I'm seeing, you know, and also there are these old cats coming out that are killing. I'm seeing, you know, Tom Driesen at the Comedy Store. And he's laying it out. Argus Hamilton, who's 100. Yeah.

You know, he's killing. People are comforted by that weird kind of tone of the standup they saw when they were nine. And it's just, and they don't care if they know the people or not. The audiences have been great. Cause I think they really, it's working for them. They want the relief and you can't, there's so much stuff on,

on streaming that how often do you really get laughs? You know what I mean? Like how often do you get laughs? Yeah. I still think that I, because i guess i'm looking at it differently because i'm seeing i think it follows it kind of follows the vein of politics and it's this is a loose theory okay like the era the aughts like the the the late late 2000s. That seemed like the era, it was along with Obama being president,

it was experimental comedy, and it was alt comedy, and it was everybody was fighting about what was comedy in that time. And this is all cyclical, so it's not like one thing's over. I guess it's cyclical, but it's got to start somewhere.

And that was kind of like, that's where it was going well for me. Right. What's where you invented? You were invented then. Yeah that was kind of like, that's where it was going well for me. Right. What's where you invented. You were invented then. Yeah, I kind of got born of that mold. But also, I look back, I could criticize that era

where instead of crowd work, it was just go up and say what your mental illness is without any punchlines attached to it. But yeah, but me and my producer talk about this a lot. No one really came out of that time, and it's disappeared almost entirely.

You don't think so? No, I mean, most of the cats that really surfaced were actually kind of club comics. I mean, like even Pete, Kumail, the Chicago guys. But the alt scene that was here, a lot of those people didn't surface as comics. But I mean, I still think like think like, like Moshe Kasher and Natasha Leggero are still out in the world doing things. Yeah, but I still feel like Moshe is... They have skill sets.

They were born in clubs. Like, Moshe was born in a club. He middled for me in San Francisco when he was still hip-hop. Yeah, but they were still, like, that club, you have, like, guys like Brent Weinbach who are still out there... I saw him the other night. ...doing the weirdest shit shit and it kills everywhere. But he can't do anything else.

He's real because he can't do, it's not. But so those guys. I know what you're saying. But so now it's kind of like, all right, like whatever the Trump era, but it is. People don't want, I think at least internet comedy is less about people connecting on where the comic is like, oh, these are my faults. This is what I don't like about myself. I know.

It's going both ways. Let me tell you why I'm right and you're wrong. And that's what's attractive to a lot of comedy now is the comedian is- But that's a problem. Tribalization. Yeah, because- Is it a problem or is it just a trend? Well, I mean, when fascism becomes a real threat to democracy, you know, you're going to—somebody's—they're picking sides, right?

So whether they believe they're stooges for the right or not, you know, if this whole idea of, like, you know, censorship and anti-woke business is just comedy, which I don't think it is, I think something's being co-opted. I think culture is shifting. I think there are two camps. But I think that what you're saying is not quite true because now you have this weird kind of movement towards vulnerability and authenticity within the stand-up zone. That's the counter to it. My theory is that this steamrolling effect of all these limited anti-woke hacks who talk about the same shit and are provoking on purpose with very shallow business. None of them really have the creativity that you have.

Most of those people that are like, fuck you, this is my opinion, are not that interesting. It's an angle that is easy to sort of take on and then sort of make your fucking hustle out of it. But I'm not worried about it becoming the end-all, be-all for comedy. No, it's not. Just as I look back 15 years ago and could see some comedy where it's like,

oh, here's some quirky kind of bullshit that has no substance either that everybody got behind. Sure. Didn't go anywhere yeah but i just see that now i see it's like cyclical and i'm so i'm not i guess so i can't i can't detach it from the political momentum where where do you go to get all your bad news from this is the thing that i've had to go through i make the mistake of it being social media or being reddit or something and i'm like oh wait a minute i've never even been on reddit well you're

don't don't, don't. I don't even know how to get there. Don't, dude, don't. And when I've looked at it. Forget the name I told you. No, no, I mean, I did a Q&A on Reddit, and I'm like, what is this? It's baffling to me.

But it's like, oh, the algorithm's giving me the bad news because it knows that's what I want to read. I just, I haven't. So now my view of things is shitty. Yeah. Because the machine gave me the shitty things that I wanted so much. I guess so.

So I don't think all comedy is fascist. I think it's just a natural swing from the sensitive comedy is to be a little bit insensitive. I don't know. And I don't think it's as...

I don't know. And I'm telling you this as much as I'm telling myself this. Yeah, but I don't know if I don't... I think that there is an active movement, an active momentum for the right to own the cultural narrative. And along with pushing back on liberalism, that is part of the agenda. And in comedy, it's active in comedy.

I mean, other types of entertainment. It's active in comedy. I mean, other types of entertainment, like I've been trying to work on a bit about how, like, you know, the show business is doing an amazing job at being inclusive and diversified in fiction. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, and it's commendable. I don't know if it's really bleeding out or over, but I believe what you're saying is, it's okay, but I believe there is intention on behalf of culture.

You think? Yeah. I just think it's, I think it's back to the money. It's easier to grift. That's right. It's easier to grift the right. That is true.

That's totally true. They don't, the only grift the left had were those Shepard, Ferry, Obama posters because we're still too design directed, you know? Well, it's different. The left, when the left does a grift the left had were those Shepard Fairey Obama posters because we're still too design directed you know well it's that much the left when the left does a grift either they're secretly righties

or they're they're giving all the money to a charity well I don't think I think they just everybody likes money everywhere I guess I think it's it's just that the left won't fall for poorly designed merch but there is so much more there is interesting comedy like I still like you here's what gets me in terms of what we're talking about and there are people that we

know that should have had an incredibly high visibility that we're doing really interesting stuff i just you know co-headlined or not co-headlined but we were in the same venue alternating with maria bamford and she's still as good if not better than she ever was ever was and there's no one better than her yeah and and it's sort of like why isn't the world you know do you think that's by design do you think Maria Bamford probably maybe couldn't handle more and so she is actually working at a hundred percent of her happiness okay maybe with what she's okay with what she's willing to exchange personally to have the kind of life

she's having. Yeah, I guess it's her choice to workshop her material for one fan at a coffee shop and then do a special in her parents' living room.

And she's going to stay that special person. Who cares if the whole world doesn't know her? She has controlled her output and her well-being.

You get that big, who's controlling your well-being? I'll sit there and I'll get jealous of people that I think I should have had a pop before this person or just should be playing bigger venues and the ego takes a hit here or there. But then I do, I really do have to pull back and go, I'm doing exactly what I wanted to do when I was six years old and I make the same a living as like a good plumber. I guess what and I feel that all the time too like when I get

jealous or I think that my fan base is not big enough or I should be playing bigger venues I don't really want to I'm much happier in a place that I can make intimates. So there's a lot of people that we can see like deserve more fame, but then do they want that fame?

I don't even think it's deserve fame. What I think is that when I watch a comic, and it's rare, when I watch a comic where I'm like, this is fucking amazing, and it's mind-blowing, and it's kind of life-changing, why doesn't everybody feel this way? So it's not about they should be bigger. It's sort of like everyone should embrace this because it's so good. And I guess I so rarely think that or feel that, that when I do, I'm sort of like, we

should do something about this. And you have a voice here to do something about it. No, I do. And I do. You can tell people about it. Sure. And for me, I'm just kind of like, well, I'm glad I got to see it.

And I'll tell anybody who wants to listen to me, I'll bring it up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm glad I got to see it. Because some people, they don't want all of it. Also, they can't handle it. It's weird. Yeah, they can't handle it.

It's also weird to think, like, you got into stand-up to get people to like what you're doing or got any form of expression to get more people liking you. No, there can be a limit. I just wanted to make sense of shit publicly. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? I never really understood the business of it.

I'm just happy it worked out. Yeah. I think, I mean, you're getting your house painted. I know. Not a metaphor. No. It's a literal like, yo, I'm going to get a new color. I'm going to get a new color on my house.

I pulled it out in the second third there. Yeah. You know, it got roughed up, but I'm happy for you. I remember old- Cranky Mark? Where was it? In the garage in Highland Park? Highland Park.

Yeah. That's not really slumming it. That house... That was a nice house. It was a cute little house. It was a nice house. That little place, not even a thousand square feet, is on Zillow for like 1.2. God damn it, man.

What the fuck is that? I mean, I sold it okay. I made money, but it was like, this is crazy. I can't move back here. No. I can't move back here. It's only good here if there's water, and it's not going to last long.

I got used to, like, I just got used to stretching out. I got used to not having upstairs or downstairs neighbors. It's not a big house. Oh, it's great. It's great. It's like maybe 1,100 square foot house in Oregon. I love this.

I love it when you, I love this where I am right now. Yeah. But like, what do you, can you, do you have a place where you work out up there with the comedy? I mean, yeah, Portland's still got a helium, and it's still got like at least a show every night. So.

You go out? Yeah. And you put the set together? I do. Yeah. And then also I'm, you know, I'm headlining all the time. So you get an hour, you can sneak. Yeah.

I'm trying. 10, 12 minutes in there, like real goofing around. Oh yeah. Yeah. Trying to figure it out. Yeah. I'm trying to like, I didn't like after this last special, two years I put into that thing. Yeah.

And now I'm, like, at square one again. And I don't, I think I'm just trying to, I'm actually having kind of fun now. Like, it's something as trance, like, it used to be a lot more pressing to get the shit. Yeah. And now, like, there's jokes happening where i'm like that's just sort of a joke and people enjoy it why don't you just let it be you fuck i i go to i go to

rachel i go to my girlfriend a lot about like advice on stand-up because she worked at comedy so she knows comedy everything yeah and she i'm like oh yeah i don't know why this part isn't working she's like yeah that's the part you could tell you're trying to prove a point to people, but you forgot to have fun yourself while you're doing it. And like, oh, there was a whole difference. It's like, you don't want to see a comedian laugh at their own jokes, but it's nice to see somebody that also enjoys being at the comedy show. Sure. Yeah.

And that. Are you maybe at a point like you've been dealt enough rough hands lately that you're like i'm gonna enjoy no i feel like there's literally like i got no kids you don't either and you know my last two specials are loaded up and i feel like i've said my piece so i can continue saying different versions of that piece which i do yeah but there's another part of me that's sort of like, I don't got a fucking dog in this race. Oh, man. I want to see you go to like clown college in France for six months. Yeah, exactly. I want to see.

You know, I'm bordering on zero fuckness, but I do realize fascism is coming and I'd like to get the fuck out of here before I have to leave as a refugee with the rest of the Jews. Well, at least you're used to it. I don't know.

I never had to deal with it. I don't have that in my blood. Yeah. We've got, you know, our. I got a van. I can help. Sure. There's a train running on our DNA coil.

So, but yeah, I'm having a little more fun and I'm not completely abandoning it, but I am very conscious of sort of like, you know, if jokes are jokes are coming, cause I, you probably work the same way I do. I'm not writing jokes on paper. No, I can't. So you're kind of talking. Yeah. And, and things are kind of happening and they're evolving maybe in the same way, but I'm getting a kick out of certain ones. Cause some jokes are coming out of me that are not really quite the type of jokes that I would normally see myself doing, but they're happening.

But isn't that so. It so fun? That's great. I mean, do you ever just get sick of yourself? Like sick of the, like, Oh, this is who I am. I got to stay on like the idea of personal brand, which is a disgusting term. Sick of myself has been part of my through line for a long time. Yeah. But it's, I'm saying like, what if, what if like all of a sudden there's just silly, silly Mark? Well, I do in that. Improv Mark. Yeah, I definitely have been doing that. I mean, it's in there. I spread it out.

I think in every, I think in the last special, and I think it's the same with you, in the last two specials, it's everything is in there. Everything I've done. There's silly, there's heavy, there's shocking, there's, you know, sad. It's all there. Like, that's what happens after you do it a certain amount of time. It's like, when you've got it half hour, it's going to be all of it. Yeah.

All the work is in there. Yeah. Right? Yeah, now it's just adding. Yeah. Putting ornaments on the tree. Yeah, but what I'm trying to avoid is redundancy.

It's like, this is a different take on the thing that I've been talking about over and over again. That's the shit I have a problem with because I'm like,

oh, that also shows lack of growth. Right. I watched that Mulaney thing when I fell asleep, but it's only because it was late. But that was not a criticism of Mulaney. I didn't watch it.

I didn't watch it, yeah. But you're watching somebody grow. You're watching somebody admit that who you thought of them as a person is not what you're like. That's interesting to me, especially with stand-up where somebody's going to keep...

Well, life events dictated it for him. Yeah. Life events. But you could just be like, well, here's my take. I'm left. I'm right. Or this or that. And I do think that is some growth in comedy is seeing somebody who you might think is

a total lefty started admit to like, I try to admit to like, oh yeah, this is how, who I say I am online. Sure. Here's the t-shirts with the slogans I wear. Yeah. But who am I really? Yeah. Here's some things that I do well that's that are not that are not yeah don't align 100 with this public image that i thought right yeah i i that's interesting because i've been thinking about that too but not with ideological things just with personal things like you know

then we get back to that conversation about privacy it's like all right there are things that don't know about me. Is it time for me to tap them or do I keep shit for myself? Yeah. I mean, the thing about Mulaney is that life dictated, you know, dealt him a hand and, and yeah, I mean the problem with not having kids and, and kind of having a small life is that you're just circling dude, you know, you know, until you get like a growth or, or, or. So yeah, you have to deem what's worthy of sharing. There's that. But also it's just like, if your life is small, which is nice because it's manageable, is that you're going, you know, you've got this stuff that's spinning around in your head

that doesn't change that much. Yeah. And then you've got the stuff in your life that doesn't change much if you don't have kids and it's like going to be cats or look, I'm older now because this happened. So,

you know, it becomes, what are your, what are your resources for comedy? And then you go out into the world. You have to fabricate them. Not lie, but like go out

and create situations. You just have to embellish, you know, a shopping trip. Yeah. But that's, but that's the skill of a comic. That's what I've always liked

is that if you, if you put your antennas up yeah a shopping trip is gonna be of course I don't I don't wanna be

you're happy when it happens I'm trying to do jokes I don't wanna be party dude I don't wanna tell like and then I was you wanna be Bert it was five yeah

you wanna take your shirt off or just any of those but then I still am that guy but I'm not looking for it like I'll still go back to Chicago and I'm drinking at a

bar and somebody knows me and they let me stay late and then all of a sudden it's 4 a.m and you know what happens if I'm like all right well this story is funny yeah but I also want to frame it I want to make sure you know I'm not celebrating this about myself but I think for what I can see with you is that you know the integration of Kyle with the little hobo is sort of complete. Like, you've grown, and you're having a life, and it's, you know, I think it's not a character.

It's you. You know, where before, because, you know, you were, I think, limited by what you were talking about, what you expected as a comic and what you thought people expected of you, you did a thing. But now it's very well-rounded, right?

Yeah. Because your life. You stayed open and lived life a little bit. Yeah. I think this van has to happen. Yeah. I think the Marc Maron van improv tour. Yeah, maybe.

I mean, I'm just trying to figure out how to enjoy whatever's left. You know, I'm just trying to figure out how to enjoy whatever's left. You know, I haven't been great at finding what to enjoy previous. Like, I'll listen to some records, I'll play some guitar, but where do I just, like, when does the dread stop? Well, then this is the thing. Stop making fun of people golfing and go to driving range. Why's it got to be that? There's a million other things.

But are you doing any of those million other things? I hike three times a week. I do the exercise. Hiking is not fun. That's true. Hiking is the thing that you do while you're here. Nobody's ever enjoyed it. You know what I like?

I was going to do it too, but I'm not going to enjoy it. Well, it's because you want to stay. Yeah. Well, I like drinking like about a quart of coffee. Okay. And just sitting on that porch and sweating. I see. Now I see where you're at.

Like the hottest days. Sure. I'm a sauna guy now. Oh, you are? Oh. Do you do the cold plunge? No, it's just what they got at this gym. I also go to a gym now.

Equinox? No, it's that week. I live right by the Nike headquarters. Yeah. In Portland, so I got a real fancy gym over there. Mrs. signed us both up because she could tell I was getting my seasonal depression real thick. Yeah. When we moved to Oregon, she's like, got this gym, they got pools, they got all this stuff.

Yeah. I love sweating it out. Yeah. I feel kind of like I did something all right for myself that day. Sure, sure, sure. I'm all healthy now. I want updates, man. I want updates on fun Mark stuff.

Okay. Like, recently I, I want updates, man. I want updates on fun, fun Mark stuff. I'll, I'll, okay. Like, recently I've been playing music in public. I saw some clips of that. Yeah. You're shredding. Yeah,

I do all right. Trying to get the hang of that. Trying not to choke. But the thing is, I'm still hard on myself. I did one the other night and we're playing and for some reason,

when I'm sitting here by myself or we're rehearsing, I nail it and then when I get on stage, my fucking hands clamp. Yep. And I'm doing, and I can't understand, like, it's okay, I'm just beating the shit out of myself,

which is not the experience. Were you, now was this like a comedy jam? No, it was like at Largo. No, I got a real group. I got guys. Okay, the Largo thing, okay. And what we do is we do about six covers, and throughout the evening I'll have, you know,

two other comics and I'll do comedy at the end, with like two songs you know approached earnestly yeah yeah in between i like that no i love it so that's fun when i'm not beating the shit out of myself you're still miserable doing i'm not miserable i'm just i'm a little hard on myself like i i feel like like i want it like you can only with bands you've been in bands. Yeah. You know, we put together, we practice like two or three times, if we're lucky, in preparation for the show. We're not doing it weekly, you know, where you're kind of really. I think that's what it takes to completely lose the choke element. Do you know music? We're doing this one in E.

I can do that. Really? But I don't know many chords. I can do keys. E. I can do that. Really? But I don't know many chords. I can do keys. I didn't do that. You didn't? No, me and the other guitar players. Like when you have to tie a tie

for somebody else, you got to stand behind them. We'd have to do that with the guitar and be like, it's the fifth dot. Like, yeah, I never graduated past that. No, I know the keys.

Yeah. I know the keys. So what's the plan, man? What are you in town for? I'm here doing, I'm trying to push this special. I'm trying to believe in myself. This is a self-esteem tour? Well, you put a special out and you're like, well, if people like it, they'll tell people about it.

And now I'm realizing that, yeah, 46, I got to grease the wheels a little bit. My longest thing was like my quality control was that I only got stuff because somebody asked me to do it. I was never going to pester. I was never going to bother. If I got something, if I got a show or something because somebody asked me to do it, then I knew I was worthwhile. Right. That was my quality control. Oh, yeah, because you've been chosen.

Yeah. We're banking on you, pal. That's the vetting process. I didn't bullshit my way to the front of the line yeah but now i'm like all right yeah i got uh you know 20 plus years and x amount of specials on it and this one people like and i'm like all right let's book the tour let me like tell people that i like well i'm still alive and i like this special i loved it it was very funny it was had a nice through line. It kind of ended in a nice way. The

storytelling, the jokes, all solid. Very Kyle. Very good special. Glad I watched it. I enjoyed it. Thanks, man. Yeah. So you put it up yourself? Is that how this works? 800 Pound Gorilla was the label that put it up. And how does that work? How do you get paid? I don't know.

I gave up getting paid. Okay. I just get paid from ticket sales. Okay. Really? It was, you know, I worked with them on the last one, too. Yeah. It was funny because we recorded it, and then they put up the money for the special. Yeah.

And obviously they want to sell it. Yeah. I'm like, it's not going anywhere. Middle-aged, white-bearded dude. Netflix already has four of those. They already got four of those guys. Nobody else is splurging. I'm like, it's going on YouTube.

And so for six months, they tried selling it, and then it's on YouTube. I'm like, yeah, this could have been out six months ago. I told you exactly what was going to happen, and that's what I wanted. I wanted it to be on YouTube. But I get that they want to try and get their money back on it. Yeah. But I get that they want to, you know, try and get their money back on it. Out of the four bearded white dudes, I think that you definitely have the most lyrical sensibility and the most poetic vocabulary and are, you know, can really kind of spin a yarn and show, you know, some real kind of deeper comedy ideas. Thanks, man.

We're all saying the same five jokes. And you're keeping your shirt on. Yeah, and you've got no kids to complain about. You know what? I don't have any stadium shows to complain about either. He's hard to bust because he's a good guy. Bert's a great guy. Segura's a good guy.

Yeah, they're all my pals yeah yeah so and i wasn't there's the thing people don't talk about when somebody's that big is that like you look at like they're probably supporting an infrastructure with the amount of money that they're making with their choice so there's you put an infrastructure in place yeah but there's a generosity there like there's that 30 for 30. They did one called Broke. How can athletes that sign eight-figure contracts go broke? Because they're taking care of their families. That's right. And everybody around them.

And communities that let them practice late to become like so. And that's also occasionally when he comes to- Cut the billionaires some slack, Mark. That's what I'm trying to say. That's a good message. Maybe that's a t-shirt. but does bert still live here i don't know where he's at yeah because like occasionally i'll see him at the store and that's the other thing you forget he's like i'm just trying some new jokes i'm like okay good for you it still has it good talking to you thanks for having me, brother. Yeah, man.

Yes. So nice to see the little hobo again. Kyle Kinane's special Shocks and Struts is available on YouTube. Hang out for a minute, people. It's hockey season, and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So, no, you can't get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get an ice rink on Uber Eats. But iced tea, ice cream, or just plain old ice?

Yes, we deliver those. Goal tenders, no. But chicken tenders, yes. Because those are groceries and we deliver those too. Along with your favorite restaurant food, alcohol, and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently,

we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know, we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative.

cannabis store and a cast creative. Hey, listen, if you're interested in what Kyle was like back when we first got to know each other, you can check out the episodes from 2009 with a WTF plus subscription. This was me and Kyle back on episode 30. I get in the bathroom and it's just, it's the tiniest thing I've ever seen. It's just a little, little tiny places. There's a little, there's've ever seen it's just a little little tiny place there's a little there's a sink there's a urinal and then there's a little two foot tall brick wall yeah and then there's the toilet the brick wall i don't know why it's like maybe if you're gonna like if you wanted to p splash your buddy in there you're gonna you're gonna throw a little out i'm like oh no see the little wall there saved you look at you

lucky day and uh i sit out and a you know a few minutes go by and and uh so you're just out you know there's a little wall and you're sitting in the open yeah yeah i'm just it's so tiny single server no single server with no lock on the door yeah so because this is not a bathroom for using the bathroom this is a bathroom for doing speed or whatever right you gotta go though and uh yeah i'm in there and i'm like okay all right we did it we made it this far you know we're not gonna we're not gonna make an embarrassment out of ourselves and uh the door opens up because there's no lock on it yeah and uh and a regular a regular the old west side cholo bar comes in a man that I can only describe as appearing frustrated from having run out of flesh to tattoo.

Like, a real good, like, when you see gang members on TV, like the central casting guys that fight, like, I'm going to turn my life around. Just eyebrows back, forehead, skull, ears, neck, everything. Just his face. Yeah, just his face was open and it was really it's like oh you gotta be fucking with me like this is this is how i'm going down this is going down i'm on his turf uh but he came in and he just it was quiet yeah and he i'm like all right because you know obviously i'm I'm not gonna say anything and he goes he goes I'll break the ice

this is what the sad does he just goes hey you taking a chit man it's like I'm not gonna be a smart ass no I'm water skiing over here it's like

like oh yeah yeah I'm taking a chit i went with his lingo you know i'm not gonna correct him it's not my place and uh and then this is what i'll never forget yeah is that yeah i'm just waiting for it i'm like the very least i'm just gonna get just punched in the face and this guy instead he just goes okay okay you know what man it's friday night why don't you go ahead you push that fucker out for me yeah and he and he and he approaches me and then posts up for a high five and and and high fives me while i'm on the toilet

and i high-fived him back. Yeah. Not going to act awkward about it. And it was like, yeah, I walked out. I still made no eye contact. I cleaned myself up. And I was like, God, the world surprises you sometimes. And you get real happy when stuff like that happens. You're like, I thought I was going to die. And instead, I got high-fived by a man who was clearly a criminal.

He was also on episode 38 talking about Avatar. Those episodes are only available in our full archives to WTF Plus subscribers. Go to the link in the episode description and click on it to subscribe to WTF Plus or use the WTF Plus link at WTFpod.com. Jeff Post, link at WTFpod.com. Here's a few chords that were given to me just by virtue of them being out there by the great Richard Thompson. ¶¶ Thank you. guitar solo guitar solo guitar solo ¶¶ Boomer lives Monkey in La Fonda

Cat angels everywhere Cat angels everywhere