WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1455 - Jim Gaffigan

Episode Date: July 24, 2023

There's a reason Jim Gaffigan is back for his seventh appearance on the show. No matter how much older they get, no matter how much has changed in their lives, Marc and Jim remain two comics who are still figuring out life and having a good time talking about it. With the release of his tenth comedy special, Dark Pale, Jim and Marc talk about the way they're still confounded by their fellow humans on a daily basis and how they're trying to come to grips with that puzzlement as they both get on in their years. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Zensurance does all the heavy lifting to find a policy, covering only what you need. And policies start at only $19 per month. So if your policy is renewing soon, go to Zensurance and fill out a quote. Zensurance. Mind your business. Lock the gates! soon go to zensurance and fill out a quote zensurance mind your business all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fuck nicks what's happening i'm mark maron this is my podcast What the fuck, Knicks? What's happening? I'm Mark Maron. This is my podcast. Welcome to it. Today, an old friend of mine and an old friend of the show's, Mr. Jim Gaffigan, is here. This is actually, and I didn't realize this until Brendan brought it to my attention,

this is Jim's seventh appearance on the show. And that's got to be more than most, and there's a reason for it. I always want to talk to Jim. He's fun to talk to. He's a good hang. It's always good to catch up. Him and I, I remember when he started. He's got a new comedy tour kicking off called Barely Alive. He's releasing his 10th stand-up special, which I watched, called Dark Pale.

And he set out to be a little dark. And he did it. And if you know Jim for as long as I have, or if you know him at all, you know, he's a relatively dark fella. And we talked about that. But I like seeing Jim. I swear to God, I remember when he had a lot more hair, but it was still this kind of white color.

He almost looked albino. He was kind of stocky in a different way. Now he's kind of grown into it. He's become a very good actor. But I think he was, in my recollection, maybe an ex-football player in high school. I don't know. But it's always fun to hang out with Jim. And I always get a few laughs. For those of you who are around, Dynasty Typewriter tomorrow, July 25th. I'll be at Largo on Thursday, July 27th. I'll be in Salt Lake City Wise

Guys on August 11th and 12th for four shows. I'm at Helium in St. Louis on September 14th through 16th for five shows. Really? Five? Wow. Then I'm at Helium in St. Louis on September 14th through 16th for five shows. Really? Five? Wow. Then I'm at the Las Vegas Wise Guys on September 22nd and 23rd, also four shows. And in October, I'm at Helium in Portland, Oregon on October 20th through 22nd. You can go to wtfpod.com for tickets. So look, I've been watching a lot of movies because in the back of my head, I think I'm studying, folks.

I think I'm studying. I'm hoping that after these strikes that me and Lipsight settle on a deal to option his book. And we can start putting together a production and I can direct my first movie. And I know this about myself. When I have something that might happen in the future, something that I want to happen in the future, something that I think is possible, that could happen, I kind of start in the back of my brain doing a certain amount of homework. But I don't acknowledge it as that. I think that's to protect myself from disappointment, but I'm finding a zone and I've been very mildly

obsessed with these Mike Lee movies, Mike Lee, uh, on the BBC, not the Mike Lee movies proper, but these movies, I guess he did for the BBC. They're, they're on criterion there. It's called Mike Lee, uh, at the BBC. And there must be like seven or eight full films there. And they just blow my fucking mind, the amount of space he affords actors and the depth of the characters that unfold. I don't know how much of it is improvised or how much of it is scripted,

but he uses many of the same actors and they're a little grittier than his later movies. I don't know what he shot them on, but they all revolve around, kind of most of them around working class and middle-class British life. Many of them take place in the seventies, but there's one on there called grownups, which is just amazing about this young couple who moves into their first house. And they just happened to be living next to one of their teachers from school, which was an amazing movie. Then there was another one about a bunch of postal workers and just the sort of intrigue and stuff that revolves around their relationships.

And one of them who is engaged in relationships with a couple of the other's wives. And it's just it all unfolds in a very naturalistic way. couple of the other's wives. And it's just, it all unfolds in a very naturalistic way. There's something about cinematic naturalism that you really don't see too much anymore. I think you see it in the rawness of the Safdies, but it is pretty amplified there. But there is something about the kind of raw, grainy naturalism of the early Michael E stuff that is so provocative and so human. And I, and I really can't stop watching it. And I know that in the back of my head, I'm trying to figure out a frame of reference and a way to kind of know what my own personal vision might be when it comes to working with film, because I've had

some experience directing my own show, but that's not really directing. And I didn't have the proper time and, you know, we were in a rush, but, you know, kind of figuring out how I want the thing to look so I can align myself with the proper DP and, and try to get it. But, uh, obviously all this stuff is on hold because the strike is happening and we can't get at it. And I did go out to the picket line on Friday. Tim Heidecker reached out to me and said, let's get some funny folks out there to support the cause and support the background actors and the writers and everything that needs to be supported so we can all be fairly compensated into the future in a way that is fair. And they can't just take our ghosts and run them into the ground for infinity. And they can't just generate scripts without human beings involved and

among other things. But it was kind of fun. It was a hot out and the comedic presence that I noticed there, it was, uh, Heidecker was there, uh, Eric Wareham, Wareheim. So Tim and Eric were there. Uh, uh, Nick Thune was there. Chelsea Peretti was there. Hannah Einbinder was there. John Daly was there. Reggie Watts was there. Um. I saw Jeff Baina, the director, he was there. We're all sweating it out, walking around in circles and, you know, not to bring it to a different place and not to make it about my, myself, but I was out there for about two hours plus and got in over 11,000 steps. And I don't really pay attention to steps, but I forgot that my phone did it. So, so yeah, I, I, uh, I got my exercise in for the

day, but that was obviously not why I was there. Cause there was probably funner ways to do that, but, but I did notice it and I got a good sweat going, but I felt, I felt correct in, in being present. I know I talk about it a lot and I'm, I'm vocalizing my support here on the show, but I thought it was important to get out there and I might get out there again. We'll see. It's a big presence. We're out in front of Netflix and a lot of people, and it looked like it got bigger after I took off. I'm not going to personalize that, but yeah, but I did it. I did it and it was fine. It was good. It was great to feel part of the community of writers and actors. So in other news, Kit is adopting a kitten.

But there's a backstory to this. There's a backstory. So here's the deal. Many of you know about my kitten, Charlie Bean Thrasco. Charles Bean Thrasco. Charlie, Chachi, Charles. Great cat. Now, if you're not up to speed on that, there was a feral mother who had a litter and they all ended up under my back steps. They kind of started out next door at my neighbor's house, Andrea,

and apparently this feral mother moved them under my steps. And we didn't know what to do. It's hard to know what to do. You want to let the kittens have the time with the mother, then trap them and get them fixed. Hopefully you get them all fixed if that's possible. So they were under my steps and she was moving them. She had clearly moved five or six kittens from Andrea's back garage area to under my steps. And I think she was moving them again. And she had left Charlie who was about two, three weeks old and needed to be nursed. So I took

Charlie and gave him to Kit who did the nursing. And now I've got this crazy, amazing cat, Charlie, who is, they're all friends, Charlie, Buster, and Sammy, my other cats are friends, right? I had no idea. She moved the rest of them under the deck and then they disappeared. So you don't know what happens. You assume the worst with feral families. And I felt bad. We couldn't make it happen. Couldn't get them fixed. Couldn't get under the deck. And then the next thing I knew, they were all gone. So cut to a few weeks ago, I hear from Andrea next door, and she said, I don't know if it was her niece or her, I think it was her niece, lives a few blocks from here. And she said that the mother was back with a new litter and that two of Charlie's siblings were still with her. So Charlie just turned a year.

So that's crazy, especially with the number of coyotes around here, the coyotes. But they were able to trap the mother and to get all the kittens fostered and fixed and they all got fixed. But it's a miracle. I mean, this is like almost a year later

that these cats survive. It's mind-blowing. But anyway, the woman who's fostering some of the kittens now has basically what are Charlie Bean's half-brothers and sisters. So all of a sudden, Kit gets it in her head. She needs Charlie's half-sibling. And she reaches out to the woman. And now this is in process that she's going to get Charlie's half-sister. And and she reaches out to the woman, and now this is in process, that she's going to get Charlie's half-sister. And it's a big deal. She's very excited. As a matter of fact, it's all

she talks about. And look, I get it. Kit and I talk a lot about not wanting kids. I always check in with that because I definitely don't want them, but you know, given the nature of the relationship and our age difference, I want to make sure she is, you know, on the same page as me. Cause I don't want to deny her the, uh, the kind of wherewithal to go out and get a kid, but, uh, she's pretty clear on it. And, uh, but the kitten thing, like it's it there, And, uh, but the kitten thing, like it's, it, there, there's an excitement around it that is almost like a kid and that's just who she is. So now we're going to, you know, we, we're going to extend the family. She's going to have, uh, she's going to have a Charlie's half sister over at her place.

And, uh, it's kind of sweet, kind of sweet how it all comes around. Right. Full circle. Amazing. It's kind of sweet. Kind of sweet how it all comes around. Right? Full circle. Amazing. My empathy for animals has deepened profoundly. And I don't know if it has something to do with not eating them. But I really find myself a little crazy with the animals and with plants. Not so much with bugs. But for some reason, I get attached to plants. Isn't that weird? Do they feel pain? Is there studies on that? I don't know,

people. All I know is that we are in the Anthropocene epoch. They're trying to date the beginning of that when humankind started to influence, I guess, adversely the environment. They're looking at the beginning of that being in the mid-50s when radioactive sediment first started to gather on everything like a fine particle dust all over the planet. But as far as epochs go, it feels like this is going to be a short one and there's not going to be anybody to contextualize it historically in the future. How are you?

Everybody good? There you go. So Jim Gaffigan is here. His new stand-up special is produced by Comedy Dynamics. It's called Dark Pale. And his stand-up tour is produced by Comedy Dynamics. It's called Dark Pale, and his stand-up tour is going through the rest of the year, including headlining dates

with Jerry Seinfeld. You can go to jimgaffigan.com for tickets, and this is me catching up with my buddy Jim. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing.

With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Death is in our air. This year's most anticipated series, FX's Shogun, only on Disney+.

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Lately I've been experimenting with feeling like everything's okay for me. Oh, that's interesting. Right? Have you ever tried it? I mean, I don't know. I feel like, I mean, there is part of me that's like, with this special, like I know I saw you at the store,

and there is like. When did you see me? Oh, that wasn't that long ago. We didn't talk too much. Was that a month ago? Maybe a month ago. Yeah, yeah. Where I'm kind of like all right well you know like

there is such enjoyment yeah and writing yeah and creating yeah but like intellectually i know that there's so much more to life right intellectually but emotionally you seem like pretty uh uh at the very least overloaded yeah yeah I'm definitely overloaded. I mean, the whole concept of... So your cup runneth over emotionally. Yeah, definitely. I definitely feel like... But the process of working on,

you know, stand-up or acting is... Like, I don't have... Like, I don't play golf. No, I don't either. And,... Like, I don't have... Like, I don't play golf. No, I don't either. And, you know, I don't... It's odd that I don't resent it. You don't resent golf? No, I don't resent people who play it.

Like, I resent a lot of things. Like, even though I've done okay for myself, I find room to resent specific people for specific reasons. Right. And usually it all revolves around, like, how come I didn't get that? Even though I've gotten enough and I'm fine. Yeah.

But some part of that never goes away. And I also resent people because I think they're terrible. Well, yeah. But that's the whole difference is, like, when you come to the, you're like, oh, I guess I'm not jealous of them. Yeah. They're just monsters. Yeah. And they do well.

They're successful monsters. Because it's also, it's not. That's true. It's not fair, which is annoying, right? Yeah, but I don't even know what fair is in this business.

I mean, like I somehow let that go. But in life. In life, right? Yeah, but then you just kind of, you got to kind of like, you know, hope for schadenfreude or like that.

Or else sort of rest reassured that everybody dies alone. Yes, that's a beautiful sentiment. Right? I don't know, man. I just, what bothers me is I just, as I get older, I really don't understand people. Yeah. You know, you think people are all right. And then, like, you see stuff that goes on.

It's like, they're definitely not. There's a lot of people. They volunteered for their brains to be broken in a certain way. Yeah. Or they don't deal with their shit. And everyone has to pay for it somehow. And they're just wandering around like lone assassins. And some of them are lone assassins.

Yeah. like lone assassins and some of them are lone assassins yeah i think it's i think it's incredibly sad because i feel like you know most of my life i've always had kind of this view of uh well you know i don't get that you know it's like among comedians it's like different type of comedy i get it yeah it's not for me right they're decent people right that's how i've applied that to all people right you know i mean yeah but like there we're in this time where there are people that are you know i you know it's unfair to say mentally ill because it's like but like there's not one or two there's a huge amount of people that are like, I'm with Satan. But they think they're with Jesus. Yes.

Yes. So the big trick is- And that's why it's sad. That's why I'm not even angry. I'm sad because it's like, these are decent people. These people love their kids. They love their community. I don't think anyone fully acknowledged or assesses the power of the phone. I don't think anyone fully assesses the power of the phone. I don't think anyone fully, you know,

assesses the power of the internet and how just like vulnerable people are mentally. Absolutely. It's like, you know, with the torrent of shit that we dump into our heads every day to think that we can just, it's okay, we have a handle on that. It's crazy.

By the way, I have, you know, five kids and I've, as of right now, three teenagers., and a 10- and a 12-year-old. And the impact of the phone is, I think people say it's the pandemic, and some of it that accelerated it. But the impact of the phone and social media is, it's a tsunami. Yeah. Every day. It's not like, oh, teenage boys or teenage girls. It's like, no.

They had it, I think for generations, we looked, parents used to look at teenagers and go, I used to walk 10 miles to school. And teenagers are like, well, you know, you had it harder. And now teenagers have it harder from a mental wellness standpoint than we did. Yes. Like, I don't think, I mean, you and I are crazy. But like, and you know, we've, and the point of,

if you're just listening, the reason we were talking about the calmness is because 30 years ago, if you had met Mark and I, you'd be like, these guys are going to kill themselves. We were in trouble. But like, the thing is, is if we were subjected to what social media, we're not, you know, these kids are not compared to who's cool in their high school. They're compared to everyone on the internet. And they're not hit on by like that weird guy that lives down the block. They're hit on by everyone.

Yeah. And they're bullied by everyone. Yes. And they're taking in information. They're learning. They've watched probably by the time they're 17 more porn than I've watched in my lifetime. Absolutely. Absolutely.

Absolutely. How can that be good? And by the way, it's like, there is, you know, like, I think our relationship with porn, we forget how weird it was at the beginning. It was like, the first time I saw porn, it was probably, it changed my life

almost more than anything else ever. Like, you just, a it's probably junior high someone had a page of something a playboy yeah but like i saw dad's playboy or a hardcore porn was like i remember when i first saw how a cock went into the thing yeah and i was like oh my god i'm never gonna be the same yeah and think, I think men are so dumb. Yeah. Like we, like as a species or a gender or whatever, we are so dumb. So we watch a video and we see something and we're like, that's how it is.

I thought that for most of my life. I have to be that guy. That's, that's, okay. That's what happens. That's how I have to do it. Yeah. But I, like what, when you say, um, because I watched a special last, are you still chewing nicotine now? Oh, yeah.

Yeah, I'm back on the lozenges. Oh, lozenges. That feels a little bit more dignified, less chompy. Well, it's less chompy, and you don't end up just chewing it even when it's dead. You put these in, you get a little more control over them, and you get a bonafide feeling of wellness. That's interesting. It's not just sort of like a maintenance thing. Like I can sort of rely on these to get me a little bit queasy every time I put one in

my mouth. You know, I went like during the lockdown, I went like six months where I didn't have any sugar. Yeah. And then I was like, and then of course I was chewing a box of nicotine gum a day. Yeah. And I was like, you know what? There's probably like tons of sugar in this.

Well, you do the coated ones? Yeah, the one with the cancer-causing stuff? No, no. No, I don't. I do regulars. Like, oh, so they don't, they're not sweet. Yeah. Okay.

Because they make them unsweetened. Like, is there coating on that? Is there candy in it? No, no. Yeah, no, I don't think there's sugar in that. But when I do shows in Canada, that's all they have on there. Yeah. Well, so because the intellectual dissatisfaction thing, I mean, you see, like this special I think is a little different.

Oh, yeah. Like the dark pale was an intention, right? Yes. Like you're like, I'm going to, because I think something shifted in you over, it seems like the pandemic and the Trump presidency to where you're like, I think I have to talk about real things a little bit. No, yeah. I think it's a maturity, and I think it's also self-assignment. But was that a big— And your last special has dark in the title too, right?

Bleak to Dark from Bleak to Dark. Yeah. I mean, you've always been kind of a nihilist, but for me is stand-up specials or you know or material is assignments and sometimes when I say assignments it's like life being thrust on you so it's like the tragedy that you experienced yeah it's going through the pandemic it's realizing that you know uh you know it's like you know every day we, it's like, here's the tally of people dying. Right. And also just, well, you're watching sort of the unfolding of our biggest fears, and there's so much of it that we're powerless over.

So you sort of have to have this kind of very conscious denial. Like, it's not even like it's not happening. That's not the denial. It's sort of like, well, there's literally nothing I can do at this point, but ride this out and try to be decent and have as much fun, if you're capable, as I can. I can't imagine what it would be like to have kids, but I remember during the pandemic where, because you're one of these entertainers that you have a very wide swath of regular people who enjoy the funny, and you've delivered for years. And at some point, I kind of remember it on Twitter or something where you stepped out of your persona a bit to make some statements about how you felt about the world,

and I knew that you had to weigh the idea that, well, I'm going to lose some dum-dums. Yeah. Now, how did that pan out? Do you feel like you lost some dum-dums? Well, I, you know, maybe. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, I do think that there was, you know, but it's like I was, I'm looking at my kids. We're watching all this news. Yeah. You know, George Floyd. Yeah. You know, just the pandemic, the mishandling of that. It's like I'm looking at my kids. We're watching all this news. George Floyd, just the pandemic, the mishandling of that, just like environmental disaster after disaster. Looking at Trump really being neck and neck with Biden, I'm like, what is going – like I guess I'm an optimist. I just assume people will be like, all right, you know.

Right, old timey. And so I reached the point where I was like, I also, you know, I was having dinner every night with my kids and I didn't want to look at them and, you know, if the democracy did fall. Yeah. And were, you know, things, you know, they started rounding up certain people. Yeah. I didn't want to be like, I didn't do anything. Sure. Do you know what I mean? Right.

I knew it because I also think that like nobody, no actor or comedian or athlete is going to, no one's going to be like, oh, who's LeBron want me to vote for? No one's doing that. But there is something about... I wish they would. Yeah. That would be almost better than whatever the hell's going on.

But there is something to be said for, I mean, you know, not that I was even going to talk about LeBron, but like I think he's done a lot of good with his, you know, platform. Yeah. But there is consequences. He probably would be twice as rich if he kept his, platform. Yeah. And, but there is consequences. He probably would be twice as rich

if he kept his mouth shut. Right. But he also can look at his children and look himself in the mirror. Well, how do you do like, what's your, like, I don't have kids and, and, and, and there's no regret someone I'm thrilled about it. Yeah. Uh, like I'm jealous. Yeah. I'm completely selfish and I can kind of do whatever I want every day. Uh, it's, it's not, it's not, I'm jealous. Yeah. I'm completely selfish and I can kind of do whatever I want every day. I'm not out there kind of hang gliding or anything, but there's never a moment where I can't just say like, no, I'm not going to do that. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I'll do that.

Yeah. You're essentially an empty nester. Kind of. Yeah. Yeah. That's what happens because we all have friends that like their kids have moved out and then they're like, all right, I guess I'm going to go out to dinner wherever I want. Or else they come back around going like, hey, remember me? You want to hang out?

No, I don't know. You're going to have to earn it. You know, you cut me loose pretty hard after that first kid. You're fucking out. Yeah, but it is. It's so hard. I mean, these friends, they need you. No, I know.

After you deal with teenagers. I show up. I'm joking. But, you know, there's not many, but I do feel that all of a sudden there's this sort of, these guys are showing up to do comedy again, you know, who like, who like haven't been doing comedy in years, you know, because they're, they're just sitting at home. Well, yeah. And I don't know if the world needed Mike Binder, but he's back.

Well, I think, I think that I don't even know if he has kids, but like Mike Binder, but he's back. Well, I think that, I don't even know if he has kids, but like Mike Binder has like, if he has kids in his early 20s, when they were teenagers, he was like, I gotta stay here, make sure that they're leaving and doing this. It's like, it's, you know,

you're getting a master's degree in humiliation. That's what parenting is. Yeah, I mean, and I think it is humbling. And I think there's, you know, it does sort of round you out as a person generally. And I think that, you know, if you're a good-hearted, responsible person, you bring good kids in the world or you try. But like the other night, you know, somebody said something to me and it's sticking with me, you know, because I have a girlfriend and, you know, she's, this one is a bit younger than me. And, you know, I've talked to her over and over again about like, look, I'm not going to be the guy that like, you know, takes away these years. If you want to have kids, you know, you got to go have kids do that. You know, we can,

you know, fuck occasionally if you want, when you have the kids, but I can't do that. I'm being a little dark, but, uh, but no, but, but she really actually has processed it and she comes from her own life, but she doesn't really want them. And I believe her cause I pester her about it. But I was in the green room at the comedy store and, uh, Christina P was there and I, and I brought it up. We were talking about not having kids and she says, have some kids. And I'm like, no, I really, I don't think that I do. I didn't have kids for a reason. I'm not judging anyone who has kids right i'm a selfish panicky angry uh emotionally needy person and i you know and i don't i just and i don't i never think i should

have kids right that's what's going on my brain and then she said grow up yeah like what the fuck is how is that a justification well it is it it doesn't make sense but there is something of like i do have an observation that i i did in a cbs sunday commentary about father's day where i was like well my whole attitude let me set it up is that like i do think i think there should be more people that say, I don't want to have kids that don't have kids than people that are like, well, there's this pressure to knock a kid out that I don't want. But I, you know, and I had this observation because I do think that parenting is so hard. And so, and, and, and I complain about it a lot and I get a lot from my kids. That's

unbelievable. Right. But like the whole thing is, is that there is something, I think it's jealousy. and so and and i complain about it a lot and i get a lot from my kids that's unbelievable right but like the whole thing is is that there is something i think it's jealousy absolutely because it's like some of it is just you have you've signed up you you've if you're gonna show up which christina p obviously is yeah you're you're gonna be annoyed yeah and so when you see someone that doesn't have kids i mean there are there are friends that like we've known yeah that have like all this material about not having kids and then when they're 40 they you see them you see them pregnant you know i mean you're like oh that's interesting or older yeah and so it's like but there is something about there's some, but it is a different task.

Yeah. Not taking on that responsibility, which by the way, I don't think anyone should be, you know, required to do, but it is a little bit of, I went through NOM and you didn't. Yeah. Yeah. My number wasn't pulled. You're a draft dodger. I totally am. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. And, and by the way, it's, you know, there's a difference between like Trump getting a deferment.

Yeah. A couple of times and someone being too young to go to Vietnam. Yeah. Right. But I, like, I don't, I assume that you have five of them and that wasn't just like, you know, Catholicism. No. It was a choice.

Well, it's, some of it is just, you know, you're married. You're in a relationship. Yeah, but a lot of people have two. I know. Well, some of it is. How is she doing, your wife? She's good. She's good.

She's good. No cancer? Everything's good? No, no. Everything's good. Good. But some of it is, you know, I mean, we've all been in relationships. You know, it's like it's also what keeps your partner happy.

I know, but here's the other thing. It's like here's what I know. I'm doing my. But I love my kids. No, I know you do. I genuinely believe that. I think that you live for your kids despite the fact you're never home. So I get it. you know what I mean?

But I'm redoing my will. Yeah. And I've got no kids. Yeah. So it becomes like I very much realize that, especially when you have five and at the level you're used to living, that you have to work. Yes. Yes. But you've saved a lot of money. Fine. But, but, but, and you like working,

but I didn't, you know, there's part of me that is like, I, there's part of me, I don't, I don't, I feel like I can do nothing fairly confidently. Right. And I don't mind it. Do you? Yeah. No. Well, I mean, doing nothing. What do you mean by doing nothing? I mean, like, I don't mind it. Do you? No. Well, I mean, doing nothing. What do you mean by doing nothing? Well, I mean, like, I don't feel like, look, I don't operate at the same level you do. We're different types of performers. We've, you know, like last week I went to dinner with, like, Mulaney, Kroll, Spade, Jeselnik, and Joe Mandy.

You know, and I never hang out with anybody outside of comedy clubs. And it was just a, you know, show business storytelling thing. And I realized, you know, I'm talking to Kroll and a couple of the guys are talking about doing Vegas. And I'm like, I would never do. No one even think about doing Vegas. Right. Like if I'm going to go to Vegas, like now there's a little club off of the strip that seats 200 people in the arts district. I'm like, I'll go there.

But like there's no part of me that thinks like they're going to put a poster of me in the casino and people in that casino are going to be like, I love that guy. So see, but I, I disagree with that premise. I think you totally would. So you do. Yes. So this is just insecurity. Yes.

I think, well, I think it's also, we've been doing this for so long that 25 years ago you have information that you're applying to today. Right. But it's like my question would be like, would you enjoy it? Well, I think I'd feel these types of pressures that I, you know, because I still do comedy in my own way and I've done okay with it. I have people. But like I watched your special last night and I'm getting a lot of laughs. it. I have people. But like, I watched your special last night and I'm getting a lot of laughs, but I realized that, you know, your discipline around how you do comedy, your ethic, your work ethic is very much like the thing I noticed the most. Cause I've watched the last couple of

specials. I always watch specials is that, you know, all your jokes are equally as good as the last. Right. And you don't think in terms of a big closer, like it's just at some, some place around 55 minutes, you're like, all right. And you walk off. And, but that to me is like, it's beautiful because that's the specific job. It's like, I've, I've given you enough. It was all pretty solid. I'm going to go. And, but you know, like, this is the job, you know, for me to wrench out an hour and a half, two hours over a year at a new one and I do that it's like life or death and I'm trying desperately to be like you know why can't I just lighten up a little bit right well well that's I mean that goes back to our initial thing is like we have we keep doing

you know like there's such a joy in like putting out a special and a sense of completion but it's also why can't that be enough like for me i was for a while there i was putting out a special a year yeah but like what like you know and this is you know it's like why what is the is there there's joy in doing it but why does it have to culminate and And the business is always shifting. Like when we started, people weren't doing specials or performing. You mean everyone wasn't doing specials. They were still special. Well, there was Cosby and, you know, and, you know, Carlin. But like, but, but, but my point is, it's like, what is the next step?

You know, like what is like, like Seinfeld has done a couple of specials, but he doesn't feel the need to. He doesn't feel this. There's no growth there. He's very anti-growth. Well, no, he is. I actually, I think he's very much evolved. I think someone. Into what?

Into this guy who says that comedy is just for laughs and it doesn't have any deeper meaning. And I've never learned anything from a comic. and it's just to read into it is ridiculous. And that's our job. But like, I think that that is his, his purified kind of absolutist approach to comedy. But I'm diametrically opposed to that. But no, but what I'm saying is if you look at the Jerry Seinfeld of the late 70s, early 80s, and you look at him now, they're very different. Jerry Seinfeld today is much more autobiographical. In the 80s, you didn't learn anything about Jerry. Yeah. Like, like, you know, he may not, I'm sure he's aware of that evolution, but like, I think the greatest compliment to a comic is being able to

transcend a decade. So like being able to go from the eighties to the 2020s, that's pretty significant. And so that's why like, there are these comedians that are like the flavor of the year, but then it's- It goes away. But I think that speaks to a work ethic more than evolving. Well, it's a work ethic, but also being able to, like, it's not just listening to the audience, but it's listening to the culture. And also, like, all his fans, it's rare that, you know, if you come to be in a certain way,

and your fans are kids, you know, or college. Right. You know, how do you hold on to them? Because they're 40 now and they don't go to comedy. But I think Seinfeld. They all moved out of Brooklyn. Yeah, or wherever. Because they had a couple of kids and they moved to Westchester.

But I think Jerry, you know, is so dug into the cultural consciousness that, you know, it doesn't matter what age you are. You know, you're going to get a pro show. Yeah, I think that, I think that, yes. And I think also that what's interesting about Jerry is where he's similar to a 90s comic, which you and I are, is that he is a substance over style guy.

Yeah. No, whereas he's pure substance. Yeah. But he's evolved substance yeah and but he's evolved whereas like you know the style like you'll see even just on social media there's a lot more crowd work it's all crowd work stuff and the whole thing is is that style that's not substance and i'm not criticizing it and by the way it's you know like ian bagg is the best crowd work comedian i've ever seen yes and so it's like i I love people that are real. Remember Mike Sweeney?

Sure. Mike Sweeney was amazing at crowd work. He was great. He was great. And it's not like he's dead either. Yeah, but he got out a long time ago. Yeah. I mean, like, you know, the guys who realized early on that sort of like, you know, trying to be a comedy star who makes money as a standup, that's a long shot.

I'm going to write. Yeah. makes money as a standup. That's a long shot. I'm going to write, but, but I understand what you're saying, but I see this whole new generation of social media driven comedy as just this weird, you know, attempted a cash grab and it's succeeding that there is no organized show business anymore. It's, it's, it's nothing. And people who are able or willing to build their own show business are doing it. And for better or for worse, I mean, there is like some sort of strange tribalization going on with comedy in terms of, you know, the show business in the center of the country. But like, it's totally different.

And what you're saying is in the old model, there's no longevity to a lot of the comics you're seeing unless they figure out how to do stand-up. Right. Yes. For a living. Unless they have an exceptional personality. Like, you look at Nate, and Nate is like a substance guy. Right?

He's great. And he's still open for me. I was obsessed with Nate. It's rare that I am as excited as I am about somebody becoming as huge as you I know what you're thinking before you say it yeah yeah but but like because you know I I believed in him and he was he opened for me and he was a nice guy yeah uh you know and we are opposites in terms of the lives we live and what we believe in and everything else.

And like the only thing that I, that I get upset about with Nate is I think because of his stature and his, and his comedy and where he's at in show business and also where he's at in his personal views in life that like, he can't talk to me anymore. I don't know if that's true. I've tested it a few times. I'll text him and I'll be like, Hey, what's up? Oh, I'm sure. Yeah. I don't think he would be the type to do that. I'm sure. I think that's, uh, I don't know if that's true i've tested it a few times i'll text him and i'll be like hey what's up oh i'm sure yeah i don't think he would be the type to do that i'm sure i think that's uh

i don't know it's weird because like for comedians we never see each other and so like if you send some text and they're on a plane and they don't see it and it goes down their thing we interpret it as like i remember one time i uh I called, I texted Bill Burr and I was like, and I waited a week and I'm like, I called him. I'm like, I can't believe he didn't call me back. He goes, uh, I can't believe he didn't text me back. He goes, I did text you back. So I went back to the text that he did respond because we're babies. You know what I mean? So like, but Nate, you know, and you probably met his dad. I didn't meet his dad. These are solid people.

Totally. You know, he's like. And his new special is, you know, he's doing something, and I've talked about it with a couple people, that I've never heard somebody sort of isolate a specific type of Christianity as a phenomenon and talk about it. Like, you know, I've heard Jews talk about it, I've heard black people talk about being black or whatever, but his sort of take on his parents being this sort of new version of born again, and then he's like, there are generations of his siblings that as they grow less disciplined, it was very nuanced and it was actually, you know,

kind of a brilliant piece of comedy. Yeah. And it was also really a commentary on birth order, right? Yeah, sure. And I'm the youngest of six kids. And my parents, my take was that my parents were completely mentally ill by the time I was a teenager. Because they'd been tortured by five teenagers. And they're like, what are you smoking? And I'm like, I'm 12. I'm just sitting here.

But thanks for the idea. But also, like I come at it in a way, and I've sort of accepted it, that, you know, that massive success of a stand-up. You know, I have a good life. I make a good living with what I do. And I'm doing everything I wanted to do. But I'm not in this upper echelon of people. Like I'm not golfing with Jimmy Fallon and Justin Timberlake. I don't, well, I don't golf, but I'm never going to find myself in a situation.

I'm never going to be called by a certain group of people. You're like, Hey, they're not sitting around going, wouldn't it be fun to get Marin over here? You know, like, so I always see myself as somebody who's not quite, you know, in the fucking game. Yeah. And that affords me, uh, the, the, the freedom to, to resent and judge.

Well, to also to retain some authenticity. I have an interesting, I think it's an interesting thing. Yeah. And I don't know if it's a justification for the, the ceiling I've maybe reached in my career, but my take is that I don't think you ever want, I mean, obviously, in my 20s, I wanted to be as big as Letterman or Seinfeld or Jimmy Fallon or Jon Stewart.

But I think now I'm like, oh, because I think once you touch that sun of that level of fame, it's, in a way, there's no going back. There is like, like, look, I'm not saying we don't like attention. We go on stage and make strangers laugh. We're not normal people. Yeah, right. But like, when you are on the cover of Rolling Stone. Right. When you are, you know, heralded as a modern day philosopher, I think that seeps in. And even when you say,

thanks everyone, I'm done. They all seem to come back after a couple of years and go, hey, remember when I said I'm done? Anyway, I'm still done, but I'm doing this now. And there's nothing wrong with that. But it is weird to see, wrong with that yeah but it it is weird to see and i don't think it's a comment on them i think it's a comment on they touch the sun yeah and they got that flavor for you know it's a bad comparison but it's like is trump running for president so that he doesn't go to jail or is he running for president because he likes the attention it's not because he wants to be president right i think it's because he wants the attention because he tasted you know and it's not like oh i love air force one he's a rich guy he tasted the most being the most powerful person in the world the biggest ego stroke yeah and i used to

do a bit that never really worked about how like you, you know, he's the only narcissist ever that fully succeeded. Yes. Yes. He's like, I am the most important person in the world. He did it. I'm literally the president. He did it. Narcissists around the world are like, he nailed it.

That guy got it. Yeah. So I think there is something about. Oh, that's interesting. About. Do you feel like you touched the sun? No. You're just below it.

Your wings aren't melting. You're good. No, I'm kind of, you know, I mean, there is also part of me, you know, you and I both love acting. Yeah. There is, the only part of it that where fame or more notoriety or respect would help is in getting acting roles. You know what I mean? But yeah, but like –

That's what I would want. But you've acted a lot. Yeah, but I feel like there's – I mean, I still to this day, whenever I'm doing press, not that we're doing it during a strike but for a for a film or a dramatic role people are always like what's it like being a comedian acting i'm sure you get this too and you're like i've look at my imdb page i've been doing this for a while but in some ways it's just their perception they're not wrong they're not lazy. But they really know you as a comic. A lot of times, people just know me as this guy that does all these things.

They know I'm a comic, you know, but, like, my acting presence hasn't been so huge. Like, the role in Glow was, you know, kind of, that's a comic's role in a way. Like, that's not one of those big leaps. It's like, why wouldn't you put a comic in that role? It wasn't a comic part per se. But then, like, the last thing I did, that two Leslie film, you know,

that was like an outlier. And, you know, I'm a third of that movie. And, and it was the only time, like you say that you like acting and, and,

and you say, I like acting, but I don't, I rarely feel like I have to challenge myself or I get very, uh, uh, annoyed waiting. Oh, yeah.

And so if I'm not like, like I took a risk with that film in that, you know, I did an accent and I did, you know, and I was a guy that was different than me. And I'm like, I'm going to apply whatever craft I've gleaned from all the actors I've talked to and, and take a risk here and do this. And I felt okay about it. And it felt a little more satisfying, but, uh, but it's, are you bringing up the concentration?

Because there's the waiting on set, but there's also the concentration. Like you have an idea of what you, how you want to execute it. And then I don't know, ADHD or whatever, but like, and then it's like 90 degrees. You're in new Orleans. All right. They're going to shoot. how you want to execute it. And then, I don't know, ADHD or whatever. And then it's like 90 degrees.

You're in New Orleans. They're going to shoot Viola Davis's coverage first. And now it's your turn. And the crew's exhausted. Go. And you're like, what? I knew what I was doing eight hours ago. Is that the waiting you're talking about?

Or are you just sitting about it? Well, I don't know what to do with myself in a trailer. And no matter how many movies or TV shows I've done, I get to a point where I'm like, what could they be doing? Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, how long does this stay? And it's like it's just part of it. Yeah. And I don't know how to use that time constructively.

But let's get back to this idea of growth in comedy because it seems to me, and maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me that this special, Dark Pale, like you did, you're very self-aware of what you believe the public's perception is of you as a comic. Like, you know, as you get older, you're still sort of like, I know, you want food jokes. Yeah, yeah. I get it. Yeah, I get it. But I don't know that they're necessarily expecting that, but it seems to me that you did some like to, to, to intentionally, you know, and I did this in a different way, but to intentionally deal with death, like I'm going to do and do it in the way that you do it. that was sort of a departure because you did 10 minutes. Yeah.

And that was sort of a choice, right? Yes. Yes. It's all self-assignment, right? Right. Self-assignment. But you were like, you know, I have to deal with these things that are either pressing in my life or because like, look, food is, everyone knows food. And everyone knows, you know, a lot of the cultural points that you're talking about,

but, but death and to go into it and to, to deal with the reality of it is, you know, it's risky. It is risky. And I think that was one of the things with my wife's medical crisis is I it's, you know, I believe that like, as humans humans we live in such denial about the fact that we're gonna that we're totally die and that when we do lose a loved one yeah that we we kind of dip into this reality we kind of you know whether we're we're sitting in a wake or sitting shiva we kind of look at each other and go, wow, this is crazy. People are dead. Yeah.

And then we dip out of it and we don't want to hear anything about it. Right. And so that was, I learned that when my wife was very ill, but like I also, I think during the pandemic, and also I lost a couple of friends. During pandemic? During the pandemic. From COVID? Well, from maybe covid related right you know in terms of that they couldn't get proper medical attention well one one it was not medical attention one was kind of um i don't know you know

there's you know there's different things and then but i also feel like death is this kind of milestone marker in my life. It's like the death of my mother, the death of my father. Even the death of Geraldo was this big kind of thing where the guy that I started stand-up with. And so then when my wife was sick, this guy in our building who's a great actor, he was so frustrated with acting. He went to nursing school. He was his nurse. He was her nurse. And then I lost this friend that I kind of started stand-up with also.

She died from cancer. So it was like there was this reality. Angela Muto, but she went by Shecky Beigelman. Okay. But you'd recognize her. Yeah, yeah. She's kind of been around for, like, the first time I did a comedy contest, we were both in it. Yeah.

And so, but, you know, somebody you've known for a lifetime. It's always devastating. And dealing with death, like like in what you're saying you know that old people die and that your parents are going to die and and that's the natural process of things so when you're you're at shiva or at awake or whatever and the person was you know it was time to die yeah you know it's there's an acceptance to it but like when you're dealing with you know a touch and go situation with like your wife and you're sort of, you know, in the proximity of potential tragedy, then it becomes sort of overwhelming and your brain wants to know why. And there's no answer to that.

So that's a different thing and that's hard to talk about. Yeah. And I think humans are not good with it. I think they could be, but I think that there is a lot invested in keeping people... Denying death is a prime motivator for sports equipment, beverages. It is really the driving force of capitalism is to keep people eating and distracted so they're not crying all the time. Yeah.

It's like consumerism. Exactly. You know it'll cure that. Yeah. And I'm the ultimate consumer. So there's an argument that you've been talking about death your entire career. Right?

The Cinnabon is all about death. Right? It's just people don't interpret it quite. They don't understand it. They don't understand it. I love it. So what is, all right, so you got done with this special. Yeah.

You start over. I think we talked about this in the story. You're a little bit like, all right, so you got done with this special. Yeah. You start over. I think we talked about this in the story. You're a little bit like, all right, whatever. I'm doing a joke about that. Like now it's kind of funny about how there's that zone where after you do something huge, within days you're like, oh, fuck. I guess I'm not going to do anything again. You become that Ralph Mouth character in Happy Days.

I lost it. Well, right. So I say, and I'm sure this has happened to people in history, big people, everybody. Like, I'm not comparing myself, but Einstein, for instance. I'm sure that after the relativity thing, people are like, what do you got going on now? He's like, I just changed the way people look at physics and the universe. He's like, yeah, that was four months ago. And I say, look, I've been kicking around some numbers and letters, squaring them up, but nothing's sticking, man.

Right. Yeah. So like I, but I understand that. I mean, those jokes are an acknowledgement that I get, I get what it is, but I, I don't think we work the same way in terms of writing. But if I look at my career, you know, whether I want to or not, I, every year, year and a half, I've got a new hour and a half. Yeah.

And usually if I tape a special, which I've been fortunate to do over the last few years, for a long time, that there's about a half hour left over. So I can kind of start with that. Right, right, right. And then kind of build out. I usually walk away from those tapings with a fair amount, at least 20 minutes, that can keep me on stage until other stuff starts filling in. Right. But you sit and write it. No, I would say, you know,

there's different sections. You know, for me, some of it is... How much are you and Jeannie still doing your thing? Well, some of it, it's hard when you've got five kids. Yeah. So you don't write together? We're lucky to have a conversation. Right.

You know what I mean? It's not the good old days where I would grab a bottle of wine after I did stand up New York. Yeah. And we would sit down. And knock around the better punch wines and whatnot. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. But for me, it's different. Some stuff just comes out. You know, all the family, the complaining about my kids, that stuff I don't even have to write. I'll just kind of tell a story and someone will be laughing and then I'll just do that on stage. And then some of it is, you know, kind of the challenge of like in the past. You know, like for me it was because I was so kind of joke and topic driven.

I was like, all right, I'm going to tell the story. I'm going to tell an embarrassing story. I'm going to tell, you know, different things or like it'll be a topic. And it's I don't know if this happens for you, but like in Dark Pill, I have this chunk on Starbucks, which sounds like the most generic topic. Right. It's like. Yeah. chunk on Starbucks, which sounds like the most generic topic, right? It's like... Yeah, when you went into it, I'm like, no, he kind of had some filler here. But here's the thing.

It's like... But you did a different thing on it. What inspired that topic didn't even end up in it. And of course, I filmed the special, and then I have this brilliant observation, which I didn't even see. It's like my 14-year-old daughter, my 12-year-old son, they love Starbucks. To them, it's everything. Starbucks to them is like McDonald's when we were eight. It's so mature. eight. Right. Yeah. It is, you know, or it's so mature.

It's adult. It's still cake pop. Yeah. It's the, it's just, and I missed it. And it's consistent. It's consistent. And it's an utter waste of money. And they can get the equivalent of a shake. Yeah.

For breakfast. And it's specialized for them. I think we both, you did that joke, and when I came up with it, I knew it couldn't have been original, and I remember it was sort of like the muffin joke that you're eating cake for breakfast. Oh, yeah, yeah.

No, it's just, but the cake pop is ridiculous. That's clearly, yeah. But it's just. But they like them, huh? Because I go to Starbucks, I'm like, who the fuck eats the food here? I'm only at Starbucks if I have to. The cake pop is like two bites, and it's not cheap.

Yeah. But you give that to a 10-year-old, it's like they're thrilled. But it's so funny that you bring that up because I'm watching the special, and I always get laughs when I watch you, and I like watching you because there are not a lot of people that make me laugh. We're comics we get numb to it but as i get older i find i'm laughing more because i've let some stuff go and there there's people that do a different type of comedy than me that like you know i i'm ready to

laugh you know you nate i like uh um i love me maria bamford's a different animal but but but but but so like you do the the death bit and then, you know, the diarrhea stuff, which I enjoyed. Always some quality diarrhea joke. That's from every special. All 10 specials

have diarrhea jokes. That's the theme of my life. It's just, that's a crutch. Diarrhea and running from death. Yes.

But when the Starbucks came on, I'm like, there's the old Jim. What's he gonna, you know, where are we gonna go with the Starbucks? Yeah. And then it was, like, a'm like, there's the old Jim. What's he going to, you know, where are we going to go with the Starbucks? Yeah. And then it was like a totally different angle.

So it's fine because it's still a cultural phenomenon. It's huge. But there was a period there where you kind of thought like, well, all the Starbucks jokes have been done. They've been written. Yes. But then, you know, you can do this other thing. There's always a turn in your jokes where I get where the laugh happens. One of the guys, there's always a turn in your jokes where I get, where the laugh happens. And oddly, there's one line where I just, like, I just find myself really kind of like laughing.

I'll watch, I'll watch the craft and I'll see the structure and I enjoy the callbacks. But then like, for some reason, like, here's your, go to Taco Bell and eat it on the toilet. There's something about that line where it just went over. I don't know. I laughed my ass off. Sorry. Is that an insult? Out of that whole special line? Eat the Taco Bell on the toilet. It's like awkward.

Comedians, we go on stage and get approval, but we don't want compliments. You know what I mean? I'll take them. Really? Yeah. I got to tell you this story about Dice. I'm in the back hall of the comedy store.

I'm just talking to Dice. Because, you know, he's a thing. And you always want to talk to Dice because you just want to be in that weird kind of. Hey. Marin, you know. So he's going on about how he's going to play Madison Square Garden again or whatever. Whatever it is. He's like. and some guy walks up to him I'm talking just him and I and a guy walks up goes excuse me I'm sorry I don't I don't want to interrupt but Mark look I was going to email

you and I just never did it I'm seeing you now and I I just really need to tell you that you know your work has really changed my life it got me through a dark place and you know I'm real grateful for it and I just wanted to say thank you. That's all. I'm sorry to interrupt. And he walks away and Dice goes, you know, I never get that. He says, you're the reason I got thrown out of the house. You're the reason I lost my job.

But I saw sometimes like even hearing that story, I feel like he's doing a bit. Yeah, but it was so honest. It's also self-effacing. But he's like that. In an endearing way. Right. But it landed. Like, you know, he listened to that and he didn't diminish it.

Right. I think it was an honest acknowledgement. That's so funny. But so when you're doing like, because like this stuff, the whole special is kind of long form stuff. But I also found that like when you're going to talk about stuff you believe about where we're at politically or culturally, you know, the environmental stuff is one thing. I think we can all mostly agree on that. And that your bit was sort of spoke to that. There used to be guys that would deny it publicly and then they've kind of given up.

Wow. Yeah. guys that would deny it publicly and then they've kind of given up wow yeah well you know what's interesting about that is i i noticed because when you you know when you're touring right before you're about to do the special yeah and you you kind of hear certain laughs in the audience i was hearing something in the audience where the and you know and i'm glad that it's there but like i'm not glad but like it was just an interesting take you would hear someone say kind of like they'd be like i don't agree with the premise but i like the joke right and you're like all right you know because there are people that just are convinced that you know they're they're they're like no it's

there's no such thing. Yeah, as global warming. And, you know, and by the way, I'm not a scientist. I couldn't defend or explain global warming, but I do believe in global warming. But it is interesting that there are people that exist, even one of those jokes is about the evolution of people not believing that there's people in an audience.

And, you know, you're like, it's because as a comedian, as you know, you don't want to get the wrong laugh. But then on the other side, there's people that are like, I don't even agree with the premise, but I'll go with you. Well, that's it. But that indicates that someone's beliefs are so deep they're confident in it that they can take the hit. Yes. And that's scary when it comes to global warming. It's scary, but it's also, it also makes me feel good because we're not as divided. Right, right.

You can still have everybody in the room. You know what I mean? Someone's not standing up and going, you're a globalist. Yeah. Globalist. Right. Or yeah, you're woke or whatever. But even like going out with a mask, and I don't know when it was taped, but it was,

you didn't need to have the mask on, did you? No, I didn't. I mean, no. Well, I think it was February. No, I didn't need it. Right. It was actually, you know, and it's weird because, of course, I did it. And then I was like, I got to get rid of this mask.

I've never done a prop. And then I was like, all right. And then I figured out a way to do the same joke without the mask yeah but it was one of those things where it was jarring because what was amazing about it is he came out wearing it and in and there was a point where well i kind of knew that was it was going to be a bit but we've gotten to this point and this is the difference between someone who's tolerant and someone isn't there are people still walking down the street outside wearing masks on, and as opposed to, like, there's a part of me that's sort of like, the fuck are they doing? But there's another part of me like, well,

this is just the way it's going to be now. But there's also occasionally you see it on Twitter. You know, a friend will be like, I got COVID. And you're like, wait a minute, isn't it July of 2023? Sure. And also, look, I'll wear a mask during takeoff, like before takeoff on a plane. Oh, you will. Yeah.

I don't do it when I'm in the air. But until the HVAC kick, until the fucking filters kick in, there's no other place you're going to be where you're that close to that many people for that amount of time. Yeah. So I'm not afraid I'm going to die, but I'm like, I'd rather not get COVID or even a cold. Yeah. Yeah. It is. You'd think considering the, I mean, there's the consequences, the horrible consequences,

but there's also the inconvenience to your life that I would do that considering how many times I got on a plane. That's right. Well, that's what I'm thinking. It's like, I don't like, I don't even know what the protocols are anymore, but I still have, like, I had a woman come on who's an older woman who's immunocompromised and she was a guest and she said, would you mind just taking a test? I'm like, yeah, oh sure. And like, and it's almost this sort of like, you know, horrendous nostalgia where like you were doing that three times a week and freaking out, you know, but because you still don't really know, like,

I feel okay. Who the fuck knows? Yeah. Okay. But, but my point was, is that even when you bring up stuff like masks or vaccines or whatever, that you are able, you know, I think because of my tone, people think that I am, you know am proselytizing or preaching or being righteous. And sometimes I am. But you can kind of fold it in and kind of still play both sides a little bit. Yeah. I mean, well, some of it is I think, well, there's also hopefully the attitude is we don't know. Right.

Right? Mm-hmm. is we don't know. Right. Right? Mm-hmm. Or kind of, you know, I'm laughing at myself, or it's just so ridiculous.

Like, even religion jokes. Yeah. It doesn't matter if you believe or not. It's just these observations on, you know, a set of principles that are believed, and I'm going to deconstruct those. I've never heard the, like, I don't think I've been aware. I always find it great when people can find the, because I talk about Jews all the time and anti-Semitism,

but I always find that, you know, because historically, stand-ups are usually able to get pretty good chunks out of religion one way or the other. And you get to a point where you think, like, well, it's all sort of some version of the same thing, but it really isn't. Like when I heard Nate sing, or if I hear South Asian or Indian guys do jokes about religions that I don't know about, but you're doing a take on Catholicism, which I hadn't heard, with the stories, were they saint stories or whatever? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know know like just interpreting and i imagine catholics

know those stories but i don't know those stories and i right right and i thought it was pretty funny it's also it's just like you know i don't know about you but i'm kind of like what source material can i talk about what can i what kind of bumps me you know and it's it's sometimes something that is we feel very passionate about, and sometimes it's, you know, you don't want to be screaming about croissants. You know what I mean? Not that there's anything wrong with screaming. What I've sort of locked into recently is that there's so little feeling in life

in terms of how the world is going where you you you get satisfied by justice being served yeah right so so what i find is those screaming about croissants in a way is is it's the way you you you find justice in the world like you know like i'm gonna return this right because it's not good right and and the intensity of it is like you, there's nothing fair in the world, but I'm doing a bit about, you know, considering bringing back blueberries to Whole Foods. Right. Just because like they fucked me. Right.

You know, and I'm going to go get justice. Yeah. Like you put them in the fridge the next day, they're covered in mold. Something like that. But it was my mistake. But it ultimately ends up like I'm not that famous. But the idea of somebody, you know, a month from now with his friends saying like, you know, a guy who works at Whole Foods saying like, do you know this comic, Mark Maron? Yeah. Like he came in with blueberries that he clearly brought home and washed and then repacked.

Yeah. And he was yelling about justice. Like I threw him out. I can take the hit. Yes. Yes. But in terms of satisfaction around the special, did it feel different? Yeah. I mean, it felt good. I mean, there's always things you regret. I mean, the day. It's always like one joke, though, right?

Yeah. I mean, some of it is like the week before I got a haircut and the guy who normally cuts my hair, he wasn't there. So I went to this other place and it's like this Italian barber. He's going in without the haircut. And then I'm like, yeah, this guy, you know, all these Italians from Italy come to this barber in New York and I'll go him cause I've taken my sons there. And so then I call up and then they're like, yeah, yeah, he's available. And I'm like, cause it's in the afternoon.

And so I go in there and they're like, oh, they were talking about this other guy. They weren't talking about him. And then he just butchered my hair. And so like, when I look at the special, even look at promos for the special, it's just like these, like I don't have much hair left, but it's just these clumps that I'm just like, oh my God,

what is going on with my hair? That's the one thing that happened in my last special. I finally nailed the clothes. Right, right. And I never, I'm one of these idiots that sort of a week before the special,

I go buy new things that I never wear again. Yes. Well, you're like, you think that everyone's going to be great. Everyone's going to be, oh, you wore that in your special. It's like they're not going to remember or they're not going to even see it. But no, they do remember. They're like a vest.

I have like 20 Konans. I went on Conan with leather pants. I don't know what decision making. What is that? That's uh, but this time, like I hired a stylist, I wore my own pants, my own boots, my own belt stylist brought this beautiful leather shirt and a t-shirt and my hair was right. And I was just sort of like, I finally, I did it. Right. I don't, but now I just get hung up on like, I fucked up a joke. I fucked up, you know, I only did two of the three beats.

I feel like, yeah, there's always that. But there's also, you know, the observation. Like the whole thing of I wish I could have done something about Starbucks and how it's all these horrible things we know. But like the impact that it has on children is just insane. So you feel like you didn't get the full message. Yeah. And I can't be like, hey, I know I talked about it before, but here's another thing. I know.

But the balloon story was hilarious because I can't even fucking imagine that. Like the whole observation of sort of like, well, we're here. Yes. But I think people do that on vacation all the time. Right. It's like taking a helicopter. Mike, I remember when I was, I used to do it a bit years ago when I was married to Mishno. We went to Kauai and she got us a helicopter ride in a fucking Huey.

Like, you're not the, you know, kind of enclosed helicopter where you just go. This is like an army helicopter where the door is open and the only thing that's holding me in is this strap. Wow. And it was crazy. Yeah. It was like, I didn't know if it was going to crash, but any helicopter can crash and you're not going to survive. But it was one of the only times I felt like she really actually loved me because, like, you know, I'm hanging out of this window and I could feel her, like, pulling me in. And I'm like, oh, that's nice.

It makes you realize why maybe that's why, you know, airline pilots are dressed the way they are so that we look at them and they're like, oh, they just came from their job at the Air Force. Yeah. Because there's no reason why they're like dressed like they're in the military. They could be in shorts. It's just like. But you're like, okay, yeah, that guy, he just came from like, he was probably, he was a consultant on Top Gun maybe. Yeah, of course. Yeah.

Yeah. But theoretically, yeah, they could be wearing sandals. Yeah. It doesn't matter what they're wearing. We're just, oh, the guy looks good. He looks like a real guy. He knows how to do it. That guy.

real guy he knows how to do it that guy so with the acting though like do you like did you ever because like i i sometimes feel like you know maybe i need a scene study class but i sometimes feel like maybe i'm beyond that do you deal with coaches what do you do i don't but i'm not uh opposed to it yeah i think that if i had a certain role if if I knew the right coach, right, maybe, or if I. But we know people that work with coaches. You know actors that work with coaches. Yeah, and that's also the big reveal is like you work with an actor and I don't want to out him, but he's like, oh, yeah, my acting coach. I go every character and I'm like, really? Yeah.

Like you've been nominated for Academy Awards and you have an acting coach. Right. But there is also, but like even working with a dialect coach is pretty, like Peter Pan, that was terrifying. I was doing an English accent and I'm like, the British are so unforgiving. Yeah. Yeah. Of accents.

I was like, I could really fuck things up here. Yeah. You should stay away from Boston and probably English. Like I had to do a Texan accent, but the woman said, we're going to do Lubbock. And I'm like, I don't even know what that means. Right, yeah. But it was like, and then they give you the sort of key

to how to pronounce things, and you kind of load that up before you make your choices, and then you make sure you can say the things in the way and lock into that but you seem to have a uh uh pre uh whatever the word is a proclivity um for for mimicking anyways you did pretty good jimmy stewart i mean you can lock in yeah no it's fun it's definitely fun but i love acting i mean i'm not again i'm not opposed to it but you feel like you can manage it if i have have enough time, and actually, when you were talking about that time in the trailer, I, I mean, I go into complete obsession mode.

With the day's work. With the scene. Yeah. And not necessarily choices, but like showing up. Like, I just love the whole idea of getting in wardrobe. Yeah. It kind of gives you a, you can transform. It's not that hard to transform when you're wearing a wig and you have a fake mustache.

Sure. And there are all these characters that have been in your life that you can kind of. Draw from, yeah. Yeah. And so I love that. But in the trailer, it's like, I'm usually obsessing during that time. I think like, I remember one time I worked with Zach Alphanakis and I went in his trailer and he was like reading a book and I'm

like, you read? And he goes, yeah, I'm reading a book. I'm like, aren't we about to work? And he's like, yeah, I'm off book. And I'm like, I'd be looking at those three lines. Yeah, yeah. Like, I can't. Yeah, yeah. Well, that's good. I tend to do that for a while. And then I tend to realize, like, well, I don't want to ruin the spontaneity of it. Right.

I don't want to walk out there crazy. Right. You know, because almost always, like, if I'm given too much time, I'm going to come in so hot. Right. That they're going to be like, all right, we're going to, you know, like, I'm sorry. I was just, I was excited. I am. Yeah.

Or then it's like you get in there and then they're like, they, you know, things get moved. And so you're in your trailer for 12 hours. Yeah. So like if you're 12 hours of, but I'm also sleeping a lot. I love to sleep. Oh, you do? You do the sleeping? Yeah.

But they never, there's never a couch that's ever comfortable in a trailer. No, it's never the right size. And it's always covered in that leather shit. Yeah. That fake leather. Yeah. It there's never a couch that's ever comfortable in a trailer. No, it's never the right size. And it's always covered in that leather shit, that fake leather. Yeah. It's a disaster. So all the kids are all right? They're good. They're good.

They're good. How old is the oldest one? 19. I've got 19, 17, 14, 12, and 10. Now, how do they feel about the, you know, they know who you are. Yeah. And they know they're part of it and they enjoy it? Yeah.

It's interesting. I mean, I don't, you know, I mean, your dad was a doctor. My dad was a small town banker. It's like you don't know what to, I mean, I think my 17-year-old is very funny. My 19-year-old was in a play in college, and she was exceptional at it. But I also, how do I educate them that, you know, in some ways it's, I'd love to say it's all fate, but it's a fluke.

Yeah. I have a lot of friends that are super talented that do not get their due. Right. Or give me a career in the arts yeah and it's like the you know how they feel about being part of your act oh i don't think they you know it's also segmented too so i think that it's also weird because not all kids like when we were growing up there wasn't this access to stand up. But now there's just some kids that are really into stand up and they might be friends of theirs or they might not.

Right. So, you know, younger kids, if I'm in like Hotel Transylvania 4, they might be like, I saw your dad, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But otherwise it's, and I think in college, you college, nobody even cares about anyone's last name. Yeah, right. So it's not the – It's probably worse in middle school and maybe freshman stuff when you're in high school.

But it's – I would think it's – I mean, I haven't murdered anyone, so it's not that bad. But I am kind of known as Vanilla, so that's not that bad but i'm i am kind of known as vanilla so that's probably not cool yeah but also like it just in terms of like because you have the at least two voices that are dominant in in your uh expression of yourself and you know you have certain thought processes that i imagine don't occur in real life yeah so do they ever like you know watch your shit and be like i didn't know you was that really no i think that well i think i'm kind of uh uh yeah no there's there's they would they care less about uh stand up bit or if they are brought up in it it's not something that would embarrass them right it would be and this is like new material that

like i've been working on which is all about like it is ridiculous i think it's incredibly ironic that teenagers yeah as teenagers were embarrassed of our parents like that's absurd yeah you know it's like my teenagers are embarrassed like have you looked in the mirror? Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so the whole thing is, is like for my 14-year-old being embarrassed of me, it's some of that's just school. And me bringing that up, it's not, I'm not outing her. Right. Do you know what I mean? Sure.

It is. Yeah. It's, you know, I didn't really encounter it with my 19-year-old, but like with my 14-year-old, she's like, can you act like you don't know me? I'm like, I know all these kids. They've been to my house. Do you know what I mean? It's just so absurd. So me outing her there, she wouldn't care about that.

Do you still live in New York? I live in New York. There's no thoughts of change? Well, we have a place in Westchester that we got during the pandemic. Oh, yeah? And I love it. And I have a garden. Yeah. And I love gardening.

So that's pretty close. So what – Yeah. So an hour and a half. Right. So you just do like – sometimes you're out there and sometimes you're in the city. Well, during the summer, you know, we're out there. Yeah.

And then – but it's not really i'm not that social you know i mean so it's not like like everyone's in the hamptons or like yeah yeah yeah i you know like when you talk about like going out to dinner with crow and those guys i'm like yeah social that's weird that's it yeah yeah like i don't know how to do that i'm not i don't do it enough. I like doing it. It's something I should do. But with my kids, it's like if I'm out of town for two nights a week and then I'm home for five and there's a parenting. I can't be like, on this night I'm going out with John Mulaney.

My wife would be like, no, you're not. I mean, she wouldn't. I don't want to portray it like she would like the problem. It just wouldn't make sense. Yeah. Who opens for you? Ted Alexandro. Oh yeah. Yeah. And he's like, he's great. He kills. Yeah. He kills. And it's, he's like such a great comedian and it is, uh, you know, particularly when I start over, I'm like, I can follow this guy. Yeah. It's just like, cause he, uh, you know, I'm like do 20 and then I'll be like, I'll get up there and you know, you get a couple minutes pass and then they're like, all right, where's the stuff. Yeah. Yeah. And I can't stop and be like, Ted's been doing standup for 30 years. I can't stop and say that

he's not just an opening act. He's a headliner in real life. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know? Well, yeah, there is that thing where you kind of got to be like, well, they're here to see me. And he's doing real well. But they're like, you know. Yeah. I had Nate open for me at Carnegie Hall, and I swear he had a better set than me.

And I floundered for two hours. And I was like, God damn it. But it's also you want to have someone good. Because it's also their experience. No, yeah, it's great. I was fine with it, but it was really a lesson in like, I got to tighten things up. I knew I took the Carnegie Hall gig knowing that my hour wasn't ready, but I wanted to play Carnegie Hall.

It was a New York Comedy Festival. Of course. So sadly for me, when I don't have it tight, I end up doing two hours. Oh, that's interesting. It's ridiculous. I don't even know why. I don't know if I'm a glutton for punishment or I'm keep trying, or I just don't want them to walk out saying like, you know, like we didn't even try. Right. Right. It was very short. Yeah. It was fine. It was fine, but I would have liked it

to have been tighter. Yeah. I've gotten a, I've gotten a little more disciplined about structure. There you go. Yeah. Well, it's good talking to you, man. This has been fun. Good seeing you. Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it. Are you going to the store tonight? I'm going on a plane.

I got to go back. Oh, all right. Well, maybe I'll see you in the other side somewhere. All right. Thank you. All right, buddy. There you go. I guess we're both fortunate we never touched the sun.

Go check out Jim's special Dark Pale and go to jimgaffigan.com for tickets to his Barely Alive tour and hang out for a minute. You can get anything you need with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats. But meatballs and mozzarella balls. Yes, we can deliver that. Uber Eats. Get almost almost anything.

Order now. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. It's a night for the whole family. Be a part of Kids Night when the Toronto Rock take on the Colorado Mammoth at a special 5 p.m. start time on Saturday, March 9th at First Ontario Center in Hamilton. The first 5,000 fans in attendance will get a Dan Dawson bobblehead courtesy of Backley Construction.

Punch your ticket to Kids Night on Saturday, March 9th at 5 p.m. in Rock City at torontorock.com. All right, people. On Thursday, we have George Schlatter back on the show. He is the legendary television producer known for Rowan and Martin's Laugh-In. He has a new memoir out with lots of stories. But if you want to hear his first appearance on the show, that's on episode 848 from 2017. Because you're on the periphery of the establishment. You're almost normal.

I'm definitely on the periphery of the establishment. You're almost normal. I'm definitely on the periphery of the establishment. You're almost normal, but not. No, no. That's very promising for my world. Don't tell anybody. Don't tell anybody. No, I wouldn't. Who would believe it?

I know, right? I'm having more damn fun than I've ever had with my clothes on. Stop it. You've had better times with better people? Well, okay. That was an easy sale. Yeah. No, we will do it.

We're going to do a new laugh-in. We're going to do it. I may do it. See, what happens. You're hiding something. You've already talked to people. I hide a lot. Yeah.

Oh, sure. You think I got here by the bus? Everything I do is hiding something. I didn't think you got here by the bus. No, but the thing is. I love that saying. There's more stuff to be done that we're not doing. I know.

Again, that's episode 848 with George Schlatter, which you can listen to now for free in whatever app you're using. To get all episodes of WTF ad free, sign up for WTF Plus. To get all episodes of WTF ad-free, sign up for WTF Plus. Just go to the link in the episode description or go to WTFpod.com and click on WTF Plus. Here's something I got going, and it felt like I actually got it going. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Boomer lives. Monkey in La Fonda. Cat angels everywhere. I know I screwed it up once in there. I know.

I know.