WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1458 - Gary Mule Deer

Episode Date: August 3, 2023

Gary Mule Deer's career has spanned more than 60 years, but he's got enough in it to fill at least 600. Gary tells Marc how a guy from South Dakota who stumbled into his first performing gigs by happenstance wound up as a touring musician with bands like the Beach Boys, a popular standup comic in clubs around the country, and a variety TV regular with more than 350 guest shots on everything from Carson to Letterman to Hee Haw. Gary also explains how his career bottomed out with bordellos, drugs, and gambling, and found salvation in golf, Johnny Mathis, and the Grand Ole Opry.  Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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All right, let's do this. How are you, what the fuckers? What the fuck, buddies? What the fuck, Steins? What's happening? I'm, who am I? I'm Mark Maron. This is my podcast, WTF.

Welcome to it. My guest today is Gary Mule Deer. Now, Gary Mule Deer was one of the original comedy store guys. He was real tight with Letterman. He used to show up on Letterman here and there as a guy that was clearly older. I'm not saying he wasn't in his prime, but I had no point of reference for him because he's not a guy that everyone knows. But like many of the guys from the comedy store back when I was a kid and I was working the door there in my early 20s,

there was a picture of him. It was like the Gary Mule Deer experience or the Gary Mule Deer medicine show or something. And he looked like this guy that was a character. He had a huge Afro. He had a guitar. There was stuff around. It was definitely sort of a late 60s, early 70s kind of post-hippie trip going on. There was some intrigue that I had about this character with this name. But I didn't know his comedy hardly at all. I'd seen him on Letterman, but again, he was an older guy. And I didn't really know his sort of his place in the whole arc arc of the comedy store but i knew he was a guy and i knew he knew the guys i mean this goes back to the like to 73 and after i talked to him even

before that so it was kind of fascinating to me now some of you were like you never heard of him and you're wondering is mule deer is he a native? He's not. And it was funny because after I had interviewed him, Brendan asked me, is he native? And I'm like, oh my God, he's not. He's like, where's the name from? And I'm like, I didn't even ask him that. And I felt like shoddy. I felt shoddy as an interviewer.

Like, why would I not ask Mule Deer where the hell that name came from? Because his real name is Miller. I knew that because I watched his doc about him. There's a doc out. It's an independent documentary called Show Business Is My Life, but I can't prove it. And I watched that. And even in that, it didn't say where the name came from.

All it said was his name was Miller, and he started as a musician. So I had to text Gary, and I said, you know, what's with the name? How did you come up with the name Mule Deer? And he said, quote, when I was with Bandana, that was a band he was with, I always drove the bus. It had a spotlight. I'd stop the bus when I spotted Mule Deer. Our bass player, Sherman Hayes, started calling me Mule Deer.

He later became Waylon Jen. Our bass player, Sherman Hayes, started calling me Mule Deer. He later became Waylon Jennings' bass player. Anyway, the name Mule Deer stuck, and that's who I've been from then on. It fit, and it stuck. Everybody has kind of great things to say about him. I just talked to Tom Drees and said, Mule Deer always killed. And he lived quite a life in terms of early television, you know, well, not early, early, but in the seventies and comedy in the seventies and some Steve Martin stuff. And he sort of kind of stayed out there working, doing stuff. And he was a gambling addict and a cocaine addict. And his whole life changed with golf. and Johnny Mathis, Smokey Robinson changed his life. He's ended up really sort of taking, kind of finding a place among the country music

world where he performs at the Grand Ole Opry and he was just indicted into the Grand Ole Opry Hall of Fame. And I don't know, it was one of these things where, you know, I used to see people occasionally come into the comedy store, even now, where one of the pictures on the wall comes to life in the form of a much older gentleman or woman who walks in and you're like, oh, my God, that's the guy from the picture. What the fuck has that person been doing? And it's a reasonable question. And I always assumed that it's not a good story.

But, you know, Mule Deer is kind of a great story. So he's here. And I was totally surprised to talk to him. And there is a first. He does something that's never been done on this show before. So there's a little suspense for you. There's a little tease for you. All right, look, I will be at the Salt Lake City Wise Guys next weekend or this weekend, I guess. No, next weekend, August 11th and 12th for four shows. I'm at Helium in St. Louis on September 14th through 16th for five shows.

Then I'm at the Las Vegas Wise Guys on September 22nd and 23rd, also for four shows. And in October, I'm at Helium in Portland, Oregon on October 20th and 22nd. Two of those shows are already sold out. You can go to wtfpod.com for tickets. Yeah, and I'll be adding more dates shortly most of these are club dates i think i'm going to be adding one uh in denver at the uh at the uh comedy work south and i and i'm going to be adding some for uh bloomington indiana someone text dm me that they had gotten tickets for the denver show so I might have to update the site, but there you go. There's your tip Denver go, go get those tickets. They might not have released a date yet. I, or they might not have, uh, advertised yet. Sometimes

it just syncs up, but it's sort of sitting there secretly waiting for someone to find it until I, I put it up there. So, well, when So when I last spoke to you on the last show, I talked a bit about the Barbie movie. That was one thing. And then like in that monologue, that piece that I did here on the podcast came out of sometimes on days that I record, Sundays usually, I'll do an Instagram live

before I record, like I used to do during the pandemic pretty frequently. And I'll kind of, you know, do the kind of hangout thing, live thing, talk thing. And sometimes it helps me sort of gel up ideas that I'm going through or having, uh, get people up to speed on the cats and on the life. And sometimes people hang out and watch me play guitar. If we get that far, I'll play a little records, a couple of records that I, you know, that maybe people have never heard of. And then I'll talk freely about stuff. And sometimes that formulates things for the monologue. And during that, uh, that IG live, I talked about the Barbie movie and then it became what it became, uh, on last,

on last show's monologue. But I got a guy that does my TikTok engagement for me and he pulled some of this stuff from that that became the Barbie Monologue and put it up on TikTok. And that thing kind of took off. I'm very new to TikTok. I'm actually not new in the way that I have any real interest in getting too far into it.

But I do put things up there. I have a guy put them up there. But this thing seemed to really kind of get some traction because I guess it was divisive. But that was sort of interesting. And then I'm going to have him put up something a little milder. So, like, I do have a presence on that thing. It's just not exactly me all in. So that's there for you if you would like.

So I'd been listening and compulsively watching a lot of Don Rickles, a lot of Dean Martin, a lot of Johnny Carson appearances and enjoying the weird total awkwardness of what was a live TV show shooting at that time. That there are many, you know, now after, you know, having done panel

shows for years and talk shows, there's a lot of production involved. You know, you talk with a segment producer, you try to hit, hit, hit, but there was a casualness to what was going on then. And you can really see these guys sweat and be in the moment, which you don't see a lot of now. A lot of it is just sort of set up punch, set up punch with occasional comebacks and sometimes a life preserver thrown by the host. But nonetheless, I was watching a lot of Don Rickles and I was like sort of, you know, focusing on his impulsive and improvisational method of unleashing what seemed to be thinly veiled, seething anger. And somehow I was like, yeah, yeah, see, it's good to feel that and i was watching rodney who also had his own way of of sort of uh unleashing and his thinly veiled paralyzing sadness and i was also listening to to punk rock

specifically the dead boys album the first album snotty something something you know kind of on repeat and then i moved into the new york dolls and I was like, yeah, man, this is all, it's good, man. I must need it. It's nourishing. I got to get into that zone, man. I got to get into that more of a sort of, you know, fuck you get back to the fuck you. And then Kip made a point to me that kind of like deflated it all in a good way. You know, I have been, cause I thought like, this is like, you know, this is me kind of, you know, getting energized or me getting re-inspired to sort of, uh, embrace that part of myself that is a bit more tempered these days, but used to be, you know, what drove me. And, you know, I've got a lot going on in my life. I've got, you know, an aunt who's not well,

And, you know, I've got a lot going on in my life. I've got, you know, an aunt who's not well, is very sick. My father is, you know, dealing with the onset of some mental issues, dementia or what have you. You know, my mom is getting older. I've got a buddy of mine that, you know, just got some bad test results. You know, and it's just, you know, I thought, you know, I don't know what to do with all that, man. You know, I just, you know, I'm not great at, you know, sort of managing the weight of these very real life things. And then she pointed out all this stuff, you know, you're going through a lot of stuff

with family and friends who are, you know, dealing with things and you're watching Don Rickles and listening to the dead boys. And you're thinking it's somehow inspirational where really it's probably just helping you not deal with sadness. That's sort of what it was for, right? Fucking, you know, embrace the anger to avoid what's under that. And right now there's a lot of unknowables and there's a lot of like, you know, pain and there's a lot of, you know, possible tragedy going on in my personal life. And in here I'm thinking like, yeah, this is good, man. This is what my creativity needs. It's like, no, dude.

And I thought I was being nostalgic. I just want to watch the stuff that I liked when I was a kid. Maybe that's so, but you're kind of hung up on Rickles, the angry guy, the seething man. You're kind of hung up on Rodney, the sad guy that can't talk outside of jokes.

And you're listening to punk rock, the dolls and the dead boys specifically. And all that stuff is kind of juicing that anger and you're all jacked up on nicotine. Maybe you got to take a dip in. And then the other thing is I'm talking about a lot of childhood trauma on stage right now, stuff that I'm just putting together that sort of may define who I am in some ways that I've never really explored before. But now I'm just listening to that punk rock, man. I'm just listening to it for inspiration. Get me juiced up. No, I'm listening to it because I'm not sitting with my own sadness and fear, which is certainly what all this stuff does, what all of it does, almost the entire United States economy. And certainly most of

the right-wing bullshit is driven by inability or a lack of desire to sit with sadness and fear. So in terms of left-wing bullshit, sure, it's there, but that's more, we're already sad. You know, it's coming from a sad place, you know, and a frightened place. It's very active, but nonetheless, that might be the ticket, man. So either I got to fucking, you know, explore it more on stage, feel the feels, you know, move through the stuff without getting angry, making sure I'm maintaining some balance, making sure I'm not taking out on people, acting out in any way, not fucking snapping on stage. Watching Don Rickles is fine, but understand that it may be just you wanting to mask this stuff coming up inside you, this fear, this sadness, this sense of grief. Man, it's weird when you make the wrong connections and then you realize, holy shit, okay, here we go.

realize, holy shit. Okay, here we go. Maybe a trip to the therapist might not be a bad idea. So look, folks, Gary Mule Deer, it was very interesting to talk to him because I really had no sense of him other than he was one of the guys, one of the original guys at the comedy store. He was in a picture from the 70s on that wall. It is there. And now he comes out of the picture, an older man who's had a whole life. And I talked to him about it. And there's a documentary called Show Business Is My Life, but I can't prove it.

It's now available to buy or rent on the digital on-demand platform of your choice. And this is me and Gary Mule Deer, a.k.a. Gary Miller, talking it through. You can get anything you need with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So, no, you can't get an ice rink on Uber Eats. But iced tea and ice cream, yes, we can deliver that. Uber Eats,, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get an ice rink on Uber Eats. But iced tea and ice cream? Yes, we can deliver that.

Uber Eats. Get almost, almost anything. Order now. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. Death is in our air. This year's most anticipated series, FX's Shogun, only on Disney+. We live and we die. We control nothing beyond that.

An epic saga based on the global best-selling novel by James Clavel. To show your true heart is to risk your life. When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive. FX's Shogun. A new original series streaming February 27th exclusively on Disney+. 18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. I think you're the first guy that I'm going to talk to in terms of the history of the comedy store that was there when Sammy opened.

I was. And, I mean, I think the only guy I talked to about that was Berski. Yeah. Because Berski and his dad were parking cars, right? That's right. That's right. That's right. Well, okay, so let's go back. So you're in South Dakota, North Dakota? South Dakota.

South Dakota, Spearfish? Spearfish. Fine. Yeah. But you want to be a rock star. I was born in Deadwood, raised in Spearfish. I wanted to be, yeah. Luckily, my dad gave me a movie theater in about 64.

He gave you a movie theater? He gave me a movie theater. Well, he had a movie theater? We had a movie theater in about 64. He gave you a movie theater? Gave me a movie theater. Well, he had a movie theater? We had a movie theater. And unfortunately, I lost it because my sister and I and my general manager in the middle of Alfred Hitchcock's The Birds, we threw three live pigeons into the audience from the balcony. Would that seem clever? Today we'd be sued. But that seems like the birth of your sensibility. That was sort of it. The main thing was I had the theater across it from that street was Kelly's Hotel. And we had people coming through

all the time, like Jerry Lee Lewis, the Everly Brothers. We had the Benchers. At Kelly's? The Vendermen. They would stay at Kelly's Motel. Yeah. And so I would watch for them to play with their Cadillacs and their trailers. And I would go over and say, I've held my projection. It's over. You want to see a movie? Give them free popcorn and all that stuff. Yeah. So the next night at the pavilion when they were playing, I casually walk up to the over and say, I've held my projectionist over. You want to see a movie? Give him free popcorn and all that stuff.

So the next night at the pavilion when they were playing, I'd casually walk up to the stage and ask if I could do a song with them. And that's how I got to sing with the crickets, the benchers, all these guys. Come on, you saw Buddy Howie and the crickets? I didn't see Buddy. Buddy was gone then, but the crickets were playing all the time. And Jerry Lee, though? Jerry Lee and the benchers. Yeah, the benchers.

We never sang, but they let me do Mule Skinner blues, and they also let me do Summertime Blues because nobody else could sing Summertime. I did the Fenderman's version of Mule Skinner Blues, which I learned in 1959.

Yeah. In fact, I got it on a record. I'll bring it. I got a CD for it. I'll give it to you. I got it with the legendary Danny Gatton doing the guitar on it. But yeah,

and so that's what I would do and that's how I got to meet these guys. Then later on out in LA, I'm working. But yeah, and so that's what I would do, and that's how I got to meet these guys. Then later on, out in L.A., I'm working. But did you play guitar then? No, just barely, but I did. With them, I would just get up and sing. And your family, your dad just owned the movie house?

He had that, and he had a food town supermarket. He also had bought a ranch. And this is all in and around Spearfish. In Spearfish, yes. So you grew up, that's like a very unique Midwestern upbringing. It was. And yeah, we all ended up, the family all ended up in Deadwood, South Dakota because of show business. What do you mean?

I'll tell you what, it's amazing. My dad's brother, Paul, who graduated first out of high school, went over to Mesopotamia, which is now Iraq. Sure. And he went to work for Shell Oil. Yeah. And he drove a cat. And he's driving a Caterpillar one day, and it starts to sink. And he jumps free, and they find out there's an old, abandoned, buried city there.

Yeah. So they divert the pipeline around the thing. Yeah. He becomes kind of a spokesperson for Shell, makes a ton of money, comes back to Missouri, and he's got all this money. Yeah. And his dad, of course, and brother and sister, they're all starving on a farm. And there's a show in town, and he sees this showgirl,

and he just goes crazy about her. She'll have nothing to do with him. She leaves to go to Deadwood, South Dakota for the next show. He follows her out there. While he's out there, she still had nothing to do with him. So he looks around, sees there's no fruits and vegetables around in the wintertime, fresh. So he buys a couple of trucks, pulls the family out, and starts Twin City Fruit and Produce, driving back and forth to Denver.

The woman still would have nothing to do with him. She finally left, and they stayed. That's how we got to Deadwood, because of this woman in show business. And that's when he went into business with his brother. That's right, went into business with his brothers, That's right. Went into business with his brothers. Right. And these seem like not crazy or angry people. No.

And I was terrible. I was terrible. My dad gave me every chance to work on the ranch. He gave me a chance for the theater, which I lost. He gave me a chance at the supermarket. Any kind of thing. And I was terrible at business. I was a seven-year freshman in college. I had one A in archery and 33 incompletes and a D

minus in health. But you kept the archery going for the bit, for one bit. Yes, I did to shoot my arrow off my guitar. But it's very interesting because I was thinking about this today because I saw some footage of Charles Bukowski talking about what is expected out of people for life. Right. Like in this country, this idea that he said that you're free until you're about four years old. Right. That's great. And then they put you into school and that's the end of it.

Yeah, that's right. Which is kind of interesting because I was thinking about your life and I was thinking about my life. That's right. Which is kind of interesting because I was thinking about your life and I was thinking about my life. And I don't know that I'm – I show enough gratitude for the fact that I never had to appease, you know, a boss or the status quo. Right. I never went that way. Yeah. Because there are struggles to the lives we chose.

Right. But it is our life. Yes. Right. So, okay. So, now you can sing a couple songs and you just decided to go to L. go to LA? There was, oh, there was a, tell me about the, the hooker town. Okay. First, my first night in show business, I finally got a job. I learned 10 Johnny Cash songs, 2 Buddy Holly and Mules Kinder Blues. So three chords.

Yeah, three chords. I go to, exactly. Everything in E or A. I go to Deadwood and I get a job at the Buffalo Bar working from 9 to 1 in the morning. I'm 45 minutes off, 45 minutes on, 15 off. And you're a kid? What are you? Yeah. Well, I'm not a kid. I'm actually about 22 years, 21, 22 years old. Yeah.

In my fifth year as a freshman, somewhere in that era. And so in my first song, which is Folsom Prison Blues, I hear that train a-coming, then A, and then I went to B7th, I missed the B7th chord. And all eight people in the audience had been ignoring me up to that time, talking and drinking, stopped and looked at me. So I told the first joke I'd ever written.

Just for the hell of it, I told, my first joke I ever wrote was, three snails molest a tortoise. Officer arrives to make out the report. He says, all right, why don't you tell me exactly what happened? Tortoise said, well, everything happened so fast. And that was the first joke I ever wrote. People, they laughed, they laughed, then they went back to drinking. And pretty soon I realized I better miss a chord again and do another joke. And I just started doing jokes. That's kind of how I get into comedy. You want

to hear the rest of the night? Yeah. Okay, so in between sets I'm playing the pinball machines. Yeah. I'm only making $15 a night. Yeah. At the end of the night I'd lost $12. And so...

You had to lose $12. I'd lost $12 out of my $15 I was going to get. I only had $3 left. You mean you lost it by playing pinball? Yes, playing pinball machines.

They paid off in those days for people that knew how to play them. It seems like you had a lifetime of relatively mundane but draining gambling addictions. I gambled. My gambling addiction started when I was five.

My uncle, that uncle, I tell you, that rich uncle would drive me around. And we'd go out to do orders in little grocery stores. He'd take orders in Wyoming, Montana, wherever. And South Dakota, North Dakota. And they used to have punch boards that sat on the counters by the cash register. And for a nickel, you could punch out a thing and you might win a dollar.

And the big prize was $5. I couldn't wait to get that nickel. Five years old, so I could punch it in and try to get some. Never got anything more than like 20 cents, whatever. But that's- I think I've heard that gambling addicts might be addicted to losing. Exactly.

Well, I combined coke with gambling for 20 years. Well, then at least you were winning on some level. God. You'd lose at the gambling, but you'd still feel like you were winning, right? Exactly. It enabled me to stay up longer, lose more, and rationalize about it. Oh, yeah. The coke, man.

But so, like, in these trucks and stuff and growing up, was there a big native presence? Yeah, there was a native presence around. And I went to school with a lot of the Sioux. And then, oh, there's a story. I got to tell you, man. I got to tell you this story. So, I'm nine years old and I'm in the Spearfish Saddle Club.

And I got a Shetland pony. Oh, yeah. You're riding horses. Yeah, we're riding horses. And we're riding all the big parades, days of 76, Black Hills Roundup, all the top cowboys come in for this. We get to ride in the Grand Entry before that, all the saddle clubs from all the towns get to ride around, so we got our horses.

So we were riding the parade. I got a little Shetland pony. She just had a cold. The cold stays in the trailer, she couldn't be loose. And the pony wants to keep turning around on me all the time and going back. And I'm yanking on her

and I'm yelling at her and I'm riding in the parade. Yeah. Finally, in the front of the Franklin Hotel, she just lays down on me. Yeah. In the middle of all these people

and I'm screaming, I'm yelling, I'm embarrassed. Yeah. I'm really upset. And the thing, the rub of this whole thing is we get back to the saddle club and a guy named Ralph Hines

who was a truck driver for a logging company, he took my hand and says, come with me, Gary. Yeah. We went over to the Sioux camp. Yeah. And the Sioux came up every year and did their dance, the whole thing. Yeah. And I shook hands with nine of the last surviving members of Little Bighorn.

Wow. I've got their names. I've got a picture of the whole thing. Oh, really? I'm not that picture that day, but a picture of them. Yeah. And all of them written down, but I got to shake their hands.

I was nine years old. Did you feel the weight of it? The weight of it? I felt, I didn't then, I do now. Yeah, sure. In fact,

I'm going into the South Dakota Hall of Fame on September 9th. Again? Yes. I haven't been in the Hall of Fame yet. You're in the Rock Hall of Fame.

Rock Hall of Fame and the Country Western Hall of Fame. I think my first, I'm going to open my, and say, Custer, one of Custer's scouts rides up to him. He says, I got good news and bad news. And Custer says, what's the bad news? And the scout says, well, he says, I'll tell you what.

He says, over that hill are 2,500 Sioux and Cheyenne warriors, full war paint, repeating rifles led by a crazy horse. Yeah. And Custer says, well, what's the good news? And the scout says, we won't have to be going back through South Dakota again. Which is one of my old South Dakota. It seems like a lot of the jokes seem like classics. But, I mean, how many of them are classics and how many of them are yours? About, I would say, probably about 60, 40.

But I find a joke, I hear a joke that I really like or I remember one from way back and I put my own spin on it. And I'm really good at that. Nobody does this anymore like I do. I think that's probably true. Yeah. But I think it's funny because in watching some of the stand-up, like, there are, you know, kind of jokes that you kind of half remember. But it's a rare thing, I think, with modern comedy that, you know, the old jokes are old jokes for a reason.

Even if you know them, you kind of like hearing them. That's right. It's an odd thing, but you don't feel like hearing my act again next year. No, my audience wants to hear me over and over again. For some reason, I'm blessed or cursed with this thing. I'm doing stuff I wrote 60 years ago. It's still working great. I know.

Are you still doing the commercial references? Yeah, sure. From 60 years ago? Oh, yeah. Well,. It's still working great. I know. Are you still doing the commercial references? Yeah, sure. From 60 years ago? Oh, yeah. Well, not some of the commercial references. No. I've kind of cut back on that stuff. But it's an odd thing I'm noticing lately because I work at the store still three days

a week. Oh, wow. I'm still over there in the Haunted Castle. Oh, great. But what I've noticed lately is, you know, Driesen's back doing the store, which he, you know, he wasn't going to do ever. I remember that. Well, the story was, you know, LeBitkin said, you know, like, you know, I can't get work because of the strike. And Driesen said, well, I'm not going to work here until they start working you again. Then he jumped off the building. So he didn't work there for

years. Years. But the point is him and Argus are the only ones of the original kind of crew from the 70s. Right. And there's something I think that audiences of a certain age, there's something about the way that you guys deliver jokes that is sort of nostalgic and comforting. Yes. That it's something they can settle into. It's something that's from their childhood almost. Yes. Right?

Right. I did. I headlined comedy clubs for 30 years, never did stand up and nobody noticed. Right. Which is what I did. I mean, literally, I just did some of my own stuff. I'd throw stuff in back and forth. But yeah, but I was in there with Sammy.

I came in. Well, that's the thing. So you come out here as a musician, right? Yeah. I mean, it would seem like a, oh, but wait, what happens at the, at the, at the, at the bordello? Okay. Is that where you first do the drugs?

Yeah. So what I'm doing, so I'm doing my show. And when I get through with the night, I got $3 left out of my 15. There's a lady sitting at the bar. She says, what are you going to do now, Gary? I said, I don't know. She says, come with me. She was a madam of the pine room.

Yeah. And so I go up there and she puts me in a corner and I do my little Johnny Cash songs and I make mistakes and I joke for all the Johns. You know, there's guys, there's sheep herders, there's miners, there's cowboys, there's guys from the airbase, all this stuff. And about four o'clock, I'm starting to fade because she had been up there since 4 a.m. And she walks up and gives me a little black pill, which is pure Dexedrine, of course. She gave this to the girls so they'd stay up all weekend and turn more tricks. Oh, man. So at noon the next day, I'm still playing my guitar.

I would think that would make you better. She says, Gary, you can stop now. And here's the rub. So the next day, I'm still up. And I got to go to work that night. So about 5 o'clock, I go up to her again, and I say, I'll come back and work again until I can have another one of those pills. So I took one to get me through the Buffalo Bar to go back up. So the first

night I got into music, comedy, gambling, drugs, and brothels. But you didn't get laid. Well, but she said one of the girls really liked you. So I went down and sat and just talked on her bed, on the bed until she finally said, you know, I got to get back to work. Well, it's funny because you kind of go a mile a minute sober. Yeah. But I was the same way when I did blow. But for some reason, when I did blow, it almost had a Ritalin effect. It made me relax.

Right. In some way. But obviously not. Yeah, no. I could never sleep. No, me neither. But it sort of stopped my brain from going nuts. Yes.

Focused. But, all right, so when you decide to go to L.A., how do you make that decision? Okay, I make a decision because I form a folk duo with a guy named Dennis Ryder at college. This is my seventh year as a freshman. This is when the folk thing was big. Big, yeah. Mid-60s? This is 64.

Oh, wow. 64, so we win a talent contest. We play a Kingston trio song and a Smothers Brothers routine and we win the contest first prize you got to drive to Denver and work for free at the officers club

they fed you and put you up for the night he came back I stayed in Denver and started working lounges everything I could find until I had there was no place else

for me to work just the folk scene? yeah the folk scene guy comes up to me and says I'm going out to LA. He's Bob Turner. I'm going to join the Greenwood County Singers.

They have a hit called The New Frankie and Johnny Song. Yeah. Van Dyke Parks is the leader of the group. Van Dyke and his brother Rick. And they're looking for a bass player. Can you play bass? I said, sure. I couldn't play bass.

Didn't know how to play bass. And Van Dyke Parks is a genius. He's a genius. I'm going to see him in about two weeks. We talk about this story every time I see him. Yeah. And so I get out there and we go into rehearsal. And I said, let's just start with our hit.

Okay? Yeah. And they all take off and I just stand with the bass, stand at the bass, freezing. Yeah. And they stop and Van Dyke says, what, Gary? I said, you know, I really can't play bass, but I'm pretty funny.

And he says, we don't need funny. And Bob Turner, the guy brought me out, took me out on the sidewalk and says, you stay here until we're through. When I come back out, two hours later, he says, we don't need funny. And Bob Turner, the guy brought me out, took me out on the sidewalk and says, you stay here until we're through. When I come back out two hours later, he says, we're leaving tomorrow. We're going on the road. I'm taking you up to a place called Ledbetter's started by Randy Sparks. Where was that? It was up at Westwood Boulevard between Santa Monica and Wilshire. This is where the Christie Minstrels built this club. Randy started the club. So I get there. I go inside. John Dutchendorf, he hasn't been John Denver yet.

He's the host. Steve Martin is the magician, has a magic act and a banjo. A legit magic act? Yeah, a magic act. It didn't work. Nothing worked. That was his first thing. Oh, so it was a gimmick. Yeah, it was his whole thing.

And he played a little banjo thing. Oh, so he'd do the tricks and they'd all fail. Yeah, the Carpenters were 12 and 13. They had to sit out with their mom in the alley between sets because they served beer. It was Mike Settle in the first edition. Kenny Rogers was still only the bass player in the group. He hadn't become Kenny Rogers yet. And you're playing in a duo? So I'm by myself. I've left my partner. I'm out there by myself. And I go in the next,

I stay on the cook's couch one night. What year is this? This is 65. No kidding. Yeah. So like you're, what are you? 22, 23? I'm 23 years old. And Steve is like 22? Yeah, something like 21. He's a couple years younger than me. And he came out here to do music as well? Yeah, yeah. Or to be an entertainer? He had just come out of college. He was doing college somewhere out in California.

It was psychology, I think, or whatever it was he took. He'd pretty much graduated from college. But you didn't have a plan, and then you come out here. And so you end up beginning a music career. Beginning a music career. I come out the next night after sleeping in the guys and in the cook's floor and he said, I'll bring you to the club tonight.

Yeah. But after that, you're on your own. Well, I walk in and the owner of the, the manager of the club says, you old enough to check IDs? I said, yeah.

I said, you're checking IDs tonight. Yeah. And Michael Martin Murphy is leaving the new society. We're doing auditions. Sign people up. Michael Murphy had a solo career too. Yeah.

Yeah. So he left. And so I go up to do my little audition. And for some reason, I did the stupidest thing in the world. I said, I'm from South Dakota. I've been out checking IDs, doing this stuff. I saw a guy and a girl getting in an argument in the alley. She stabbed him in the hand with a fingernail file.

This guy was going after her. I said, I'm from South Dakota, I'm freaked, I'm supposed to do this audition, and I pull out my hand, and I got it wrapped with a little bit of lipstick on it to look like my hand is freaked. And for some reason, Randy Sparks in the back of the room thought that was great and says, you're in.

Yeah. So suddenly I'm in a group in RCA Victor Records. Isn't that crazy? What was the name of that band? The New Society. Wait, was Michael Murphy, did he do Wildfire? Yes, he did. I just heard that song the other day and I recognized him.

I'm like, this is Wildfire. He's walking in a mall in Albuquerque. He had a partner. They had an Owens Castle when they were called Boomer and Travis, dressed as mountain men. They left and went with Buck Owens. That's why they left Randy Sparks to go there. Buck Owens. So that was years before his solo career.

Yes. All right, so now you're in. You're in the band. What's it called again? The New Society. So that was years before his solo career. Yes. All right, so now you're in. You're in the band, what's it called again? The New Society. And that was a big band. Hey. Well, they had a deal.

We're going in to record with the rucking crew. That's crazy. With how... Glenn Campbell. Oh, yeah. All these people. Carol Kay.

Carol Kay on bass. Was Hal Blaine? Jim Kelton on drums. Oh, Jim Kelton on drums. Oh, it was unbelievable. Over at Capitol? Yeah, no. RCA Victor.

RCA. We're in Studio A and the Stones are in B. Come on, what are they doing? Yes, they're doing a record. And I'm thinking, where am I? I've only been in the group five days. You could barely play. Yeah, I can't play or sing. So they just let me watch.

And they gave me credit for stuff. And when we played after that, they had my microphones off on my guitar and my mic. Why were they, why are you in the band? Until I learned the song. Because I was funny because I was the front man. I would tell jokes. That separated you from being in a lounge. That means separated you from being in a bar.

If you had a front man, you played lounges. If you didn't, you played in bars. And that's how we started, I started working. And we got a job working the Miss Universe pageant in Miami. With this band? Yes, Fountain Blue with Jack Linklater and Pat Boone as the host. Fountain Blue, that's where my parents went on their honeymoon. Oh, well that's big. We go in

and here's all the women from Miss Universe pageant. Four guys in a group. It's like, I can't, I hate to say candy store because that's really not a nice thing to say right now, but it was literally like that. Sure. I gave Miss Israel my phone number.

She was runner up. So just for the heck of it. So three days later, I get a call in L.A. and she's there. She's going to work for Israeli Bonds. They're putting her up at a great hotel, Century Plaza Hotel in the suite. She says, Gary, you want to move in with me? So I moved in with her only two days

and I had to go with the group to San Francisco to play a place called Bimbo's sure Bimbo's down yeah I know Bimbo's yeah you know Bimbo's

with the girl and the fishbowl so two days and I'm rehearsing in the afternoon and the bartender says Gary you got a call I say yeah

it's her she says Gary your stuff's with the Bellman I'm getting married wow you were the last stop. Yeah. So she said she's found a guy with a lot of money and she can bring her mother over. I guess you're lucky in a way you would have ended up in Israel. So working on a kibbutz. Yes, this is 77.

And what happened in the whole 60s? I got to tell you, I mean, 67, I got to tell you this story. So 10 years later, I'm going to drop a lot of names here. Go. I'm with Deborah Winger and we're in Vegas. She's a friend of mine. That's funny. We're gambling. Perfect. Yeah, she's great, right? She's wonderful.

I haven't seen her forever. You haven't talked to her? We were together for a time. Yeah. We were during that time and we ran out of money gambling so we went to see Freddie Prince opening

for Andy Williams. He didn't have any coke but he had Quaaludes. So we'd gamble on Quaaludes. A terrible thing to do. That's a slow night. Dozing off at the machines. So I call the Hager twins, Jim John, one of the

Hager twins from Hee Haw, to send me a $100 money order to the Stardust. So we're walking around waiting for the money order to come in. I swear to God, and I'm walking around, and I'm looking at all the pans underneath the machines to see if anybody left a quarter. And I hear, Gary? quarter. And I hear Gary.

Yeah. And I look over and there's two ladies sitting there with pot bellies and they've got gloves on because they're hardcore slot players. Yeah. Because the money was dirty then. And they got cigarettes hanging out of their mouth, lipstick on it. And it's Miss Israel and her mother. Come on.

No. And she says, Ma, Ma, there's Gary. It's the guy I told you about. Remember? Ma goes, yeah, yeah. And she kept playing and that was about it. And baby says, nice to see you. I said. That's the guy I told you about, remember? Ma goes, yeah, yeah. And she kept playing. And that was about it. And baby says, nice to see you. I said, nice to see you.

She never stopped playing. And about that time, she said, the money's here. I walk over and she says, who is that? I said, Miss Israel, 1967. She says, yeah, right. I said, boy, do I have a story for you. And that's how that happened. Was Winger a waitress at the store?

Yes, she was. That's when I met her. I met her when she was a waitress the store? Yes, she was. That's when I met her. I met her when she was a waitress at the... Improv. Improv. That's when I met her. And I was with her about a year and a half. So there you are.

Yeah. You're down here. You're in that band. How long did it last in that band? The band, we couldn't play our record because the Rick and crew did. We couldn't play. It went on the road and it was a bust. Oh.

It was just... Because you were with the best musicians in the world. Yeah. We couldn't play our record. So it crapped out? Yeah. And then you get into another band? We just, some guys left and we formed a group called Band N and started doing rock and roll.

What happened? What was that album with the Baroque rock music? That was the one. That was New Society. Oh, it was? That was the one. That seemed like a satire record of ours. It was.

Was it a comedy record? It was a satire. Ish? But it was, it was just, it was Baroque music and rock and roll. Did you know those guys, the Stone Ponies? Oh, yes. Right? They were with Linda Ronson.

Oh, they were so good. They used to play there at Ledbetter's. Sure. At Ledbetter's? Yeah, they played there a lot. They were great, right? Yeah. Who else was on the scene?

Well, let's see. Well, John Denver, you said. John Denver was there, but also Mike Nesmith had a band. Well, what was that band like before the Monkees? Was it country? Country, and it was really good. Oh, but also Mike Nesmith had a band. Well, what was that band like before the Monkees? Was it country? Country, and it was really good. Oh, yeah, man. He's so good.

All those Mike Nesmith solo records are great. He was good. Larry Murray had a group called Hearts and Flowers, him and another partner. He became the head writer for the Johnny Cash show. I mean, there are all these great people coming in and playing all the time. This is before the Troubadour? This is before. Troubadour was going at that time.

Right. But we were sort of a commercial folk thing. Yeah. We weren't the diehard. Okay. You know, Pete Seeger wouldn't, you know, we weren't like that. Pete Seeger wouldn't play lead betters? I don't think so.

No, probably not. So, okay, so then you join a rock band. Yeah. And can you play at that point? Pretty good. I'm pretty good and I'm doing a lot of stuff from the Guess Who. And you're singing? I'm singing and I'm. What's the name of that band, Bandana? Pretty good. I'm pretty good, and I'm doing a lot of stuff from the Guess Who. And you're singing? I'm singing.

What's the name of that band, Bandana? Bandana. Okay. Yeah, so we're playing a club called Friday's and Saturday's in Denver. Friday's was folk rock. Yeah. Saturday's was rock and roll. So my band breaks up the same night that the group next door, the Moonrakers, break up.

Yeah. A girl in our group, Karen Bryant, had been dating the lead singer of the Moonrakers. Yeah. She got us together. Dennis tells me after our shows, after our groups have left us,

he has to do a thing at Marvelous Marves, which was downtown and Denver later became Bebbitt's Field. Yeah. He says, I have to do a benefit

for this musician. I've never played by myself. What's his name? Dennis Flanagan. Yeah. So I don't know what to do.

I said, we'll figure out something. So we went down there and there was a bowling trophy behind the stage. We put candles on it like a Liberace thing. Yeah. And when time came up, we had the guy named Bill Heaslip who became a huge lighting guy after that. Yeah. He said, okay, we're going

to go down. Dennis is going to start playing Moonlight Sonata. Yeah. I'm going to tell Indian stories. And so we did this and we got through with the whole thing. Indian stories? Yeah. I got three Indian stories I used to tell all the time. I don't know if they're politically correct now, but I used to tell them all the time.

They were great with Moonlight Sonata in the background. Okay. I probably shouldn't tell them. No, you don't need to. No, I won't tell them. So we get through, and a guy walks up and says, I'm the manager of the Wii 5. Remember, you were on my mind? Yeah.

He said, we're going to play Aspen in a week and a half. You guys want to open? We said, sure. We had no act. We go back to LA to get my stuff. And at 63 VW, we're driving down Sunset. What was your stuff? We see my clothes, another guitar, this and that.

We see Comedy Store. We pull in. There's like seven cars in the back. Yeah. Is Berski back there? Yeah, Berski probably was. He was dead. He'd given up by that time because nobody needed to be parked.

It was over. Yeah. So we walk in. There's Sammy Shore. There's Rudy DeLuca. There's Barry Levinson. And there's, oh, God. Craig T. Nelson.

Thank you. God bless you. Well, yeah, it's funny because a lot of people don't. All the guys I talk to going as far back, I would say, I'm trying to think, who was the furthest back? Maybe Jimmy Walker, maybe? No, none of them. At that point, those guys were new guys. And then he was running the Vegas guys through there, right?

Sammy was. That's right. So a lot of people don't know that Barry Levinson, the famous writer and film director, and Craig T. Nelson, the actor. Right. Were comics. And DeLuca later ended up with Mel Brooks writing everything. Sure. Yeah, DeLuca was the guy who opened it with Sammy, right? Yes.

Okay. So it's the four guys there, and it's not even the main room. It's just the small room, right? Just the small room, and they're out of material. There's eight people in the audience. You guys comedians? We said, you got a piano? Yeah.

Took our bowling trophy, put it up on stage. Dennis Liddick played Moonlight Sonata. I told a couple Indian stories. We walk off. We're in the parking lot. And three guys in the audience are John Biner, his manager, Harry Columbia, and Michael Keaton.

Michael Keaton was there at that time? He was just... Harry Columbia was his manager also. But he was a stand-up. He must have been 20 years old. He wasn't playing then. He wasn't, I don't think. How old was that guy then, 20?

And you know what? I could be wrong about that, about Keaton. But Columbia and for sure, and I always thought the other guy was Keaton. But you know what? It's not the things I forget now that bother me. It's things I remember that never actually happened. Sure. I've got to be careful.

But anyway, they said. You recast your memories. Yeah. So Biner says to me, I'm replacing Carol Burnett for the summer at CBS. You guys want to be on the show? We said, sure, but we have to go over for the Wave 5 in Bassman, and we'll be back. With your one bowling trophy bid? One joke.

And we go, and we come come back and we're on CBS. This is like, this is how it happened to me. It's crazy. So how are you writing jokes now? Because, I mean, you know, I used to see your picture everywhere and I always knew your name. And I maybe had seen you a couple of times on Letterman, you know, after your arc into, you know, whatever. Right. But, you know, like this is all way before my time.

But because I was a doorman at the store in the late 80s. Yes. So I lived with those pictures and there weren't even guys around that had the stories because most of the guys around who were the old guys when I were there, you know, came in the late 70s. That's right. Right. So everyone who was there, certainly not many from Sammy's time, but from Mitzi's time were,

you know, either stars or sad. Yeah. But a couple of them were around. Yeah. So you start doing, it was essentially a prop act, right? Yes. But with Mo a couple of them were around. Yeah. So you start doing, it was essentially a prop act, right? Yes.

But with Moondog, we did music and comedy. It was the Mule Deer Moondog Medicine Show? Medicine Show, yes. And we were really great. We did incredible parodies on things.

We did a lot of historical things. John Hancock talking to Ben Franklin on telephones where the number was one. Yeah. Incredible things,

parodies on all kinds of commercials. He was a really good rock and roll piano player, and I did pretty decent country stuff. Yeah. Yeah, we did that, and then we split up. We did all kinds of things.

You and Moondog? You and Flanagan? In fact, I remember going, we went to do a college in Denton, Texas, and we showed up and went up to the student council, and the guy says, great, you're here,

but you're not here until next week. So there's an all-you-can-eat catfish restaurant and motel down in town. Guys stay there. We stayed there for a week. Where was this? In Denton, Texas. Went and called our manager.

He said, oh God, we're a week early. He says, thank God I got hold of you. Burns and Schreiber Comedy Hour called and they want you on ABC this summer. You got to get back as soon as you do the show. So here we are, you know, depressed, boom, and next thing we're on ABC. You know, we do a, what, hot yeah, hot yeah, hot yeah. Yeah, we're back doing Burns and Shriver.

How was that? It was incredible. Then David Frost saw us and put us on Madhouse 90. David Frost? Yeah, that was the week it was. Yeah. We did one 90-minute show a month for ABC. It was wonderful.

So who were, like, you know, at that time, were you doing sets at the store or no? Or were you just in and out? Occasionally in and out. But we didn't know we were working so much. We would hit and run at the store. So you were at the store, what, in the, like, 1970? 70 through, yeah, 75 till then. Did you work there when Mitzi took it? Yeah, just, yes.

Oh, yeah, I was there when Mitzi took over. Because that's when, you know, Letterman came and everyone else came, right? That's right. So you're out there working, but there's no comedy clubs. You're opening for bands? No, we're working in music clubs and opening for rock and roll bands. Like in the late 60s, who are you opening for?

Doobie Brothers. We're opening for- I talked to those guys. They're still at it. Yeah, they're still going. Yeah. Doobie Brothers. War.

War. Earth, Wind, and Fire. Yeah. Sly. Yeah. The Beach Boys. And it's tough work. Are you still on the speed? Yeah. War. Earth, wind, and fire. Yeah. It's sly. Yeah. The Beach Boys. And it's tough work. Are you still on the speed?

Yeah, yeah. And we're not getting billing, and it's tough. And I mean, the last job we did with the Dewey Brothers, suddenly there's 40,000 people at Ohio State University. We walk out on stage to open with no billing. A wine bottle bounces off of the piano. A beer bottle just whizzes by me. I said, we're the Mule Deer and Moondog Medicine Show.

Good night. I just walked off. Well, it's like that story that Albert Brooks tells about opening for Richie Havens. Oh, yeah. And he's waiting to go on. He's like, Richie, Richie, Richie. And the guy, the stagehand goes, are you Richie?

He's like, no. He's like, they're going to hate you. They're going to hate you. That's right. Did that with Dolly Parton when she got the most money of anybody ever at Vegas in 1980. She was getting $350,000. All it said was Dolly on the marquee.

So the same thing, the lights go down. It's Dolly, Dolly, Dolly. And I'm walking out and people are looking at me. Maybe 100 people recognize me. Dolly. By the time I get to the, I wait for him to settle down. It takes about two or three minutes for him to quiet so I can talk. So during this time when you're doing these ABC shows, I mean, like, you know, who are some of the other comics working with you on those?

I didn't remember. I remember stars coming on, like Peter Marshall from Hollywood Squares. I remember the guy that used to say, my name is da-da-da-da. Yeah, my name is Hosea Menace. Yeah, the other guy, too, my name is, but you can call me da-da. You can call me Ray. Yeah, Ray, you can call me Ray. That guy was on a lot.

And Father Guido Sarducci was on. But it was mainly just stars would come on. Ray Stevens? Was that that guy? Yeah, Ray wasn't on, but we had all these guys that were heads that were in westerns or whatever had come on. Sure, everybody was in rotation then. Yes. Hollywood was a smaller community.

But when did you live with Steve Martin? Steve Martin, Steve and I lived together in 66. Oh, so that was early on. Early on. So you're together and he's still doing the magic act? Yeah, no, his magic act got stolen. We were out shopping one day. It's been stolen by many people at this time.

Everything was stolen out of his trunk. Oh, you mean really stolen. Yes. I've seen people do the act before. So that's when he went to the suit and the sneakers and just a banjo and no more props. But do you think that you were his inspiration for actually using props? Because he did use props. He tells me I was.

Well, what's that story about him getting a job at the Smothers Brothers? He did. He got a job there. How did he get that job? He couldn't write because he was funny. He was funny. His act was funny. So they saw him. They saw a musical act. And he had a few things in his act, a few props, an arrow,

he had certain things, but for the main part. You both used the arrow differently. Yes. You shot yours with a guitar. My shot, his one, his head. Yeah. And I just, with Steve, he just decided to go the other way, and he made a great move. He made a great move. He got hired as a writer, but when they asked him to do something, he couldn't to go the other way, and he made a great move. He made a great move. He got hired as a writer.

Got hired as a writer. But when they asked him to do something, he couldn't do it. Right. So he calls me. Yeah. Wants a couple things out of my show. Yeah. I said, sure.

Yeah. He takes them. They work great. It breaks his writer's block. From then on, he writes like a demon. And he's forever indebted and a friend of yours. Forever to me, which is incredible. He forgets all the money.

He loaned me all the times. He pulled me out of trouble and made house payments for me. Oh, yeah. Oh, my God. He was your patron. He was. Yeah. I sure, I don't know.

He must have written it off to, I don't know what he wrote it off to. Yeah, he saved me. Oh, yeah, that's good. Well, I mean. Him and Letterman. Well, that's interesting, isn't it? Because, like, you know, every generation of stand-ups has a guy that everyone loves and just kind of spirals off into whatever fucking hell that they're going to be. I did, yeah.

And fortunately, Robin used to take care of a couple guys, too. Yeah, he did. Yeah. He stole their jokes first, but he used to take care of them. Exactly, yeah. Here you go. Yeah, Robin was a sponge, unfortunately. There were only three people that I've encountered in my life that were so fast and so quick.

Yeah. And it was always original, different. Roger Miller were number one. Roger Miller was the quickest, fastest guy. King of the road. Oh, yeah. Geez, unbelievable stuff. Yeah, yeah.

I mean, he was just, you never stopped. Great entertainer. Yeah, Will Schreiner is like that. Will's incredible like you never stop. Great entertainer. Yeah, Will Schreiner is like that. Will's incredible like that. Yeah. And strangely enough, a lady who's a lighting tech with Johnny Mathis now, I've been with the show for 30 years, who's Stacey Westbrook. She could have been the greatest stand-up lady comedian ever. She's just unbelievable the way.

So when you first meet Letterman, you were like, who was at the store when these young guys started coming? Everybody was pretty much around at that time. I think Leno was more at the improv and he was at the store. But we're all back there. Argus and there's Jimmy Walker. All of us are back there. And that's when all the comics would hang in the back when a new guy went on. David up there doing his editorial about, he said, WSXM would like to take this time to say we were diametrically opposed to using orphans as yardage markers at driving ranges.

And that I went, whoa. And I just went up and waited for him to get off. And after that, he just had me. There was only about four people I ever saw that I saw that I knew the first time they were up and then I saw them that I knew were going to do it. Yeah. He was one. Yeah. Strangely enough, Yakov Smirnoff. Yeah. I knew he was going to do incredible. Oh yeah, he was there. Yeah. Ellen DeGeneres, her first show. Yeah. I knew she was going to do something. Yeah. I saw her the first time and I just thought, wow. Yeah. She and Steve Martin. Yeah. Every, all those people,

the ones I saw that I knew were going to go. Now, when you were there, was Jimmy Walker, did he have his management company yet? Yeah. Yeah, the management, and Letterman, and I don't know, I think we were writing for him,

weren't we? Yeah, right. And was it Helen? Was she managing? Yeah, yeah. Oh, yes. Yeah, and she went on to manage Leno all the way through, right?

Yes, she did. Now, were you writing with Letterman? I was writing, trying to write with Letterman, and in fact, she wanted me to go out and write with him. Now, were you writing with Letterman? I was writing, trying to write with Letterman. In fact, she wanted me to go out and write with him. Who, Helen? Letterman wanted me to go to the New York show, the day show and write. Oh, yeah, yeah.

And I was just too, I knew that I was just too stoned all the time. Nobody knew I was stoned all the time. Were you on Coke yet? Oh, God, oh, my. I'd been on Coke since 67. I'd been on Coke all the time. When did that first start to come around? Where did you first do coke?

Bimbos. Oh, really? In San Francisco? San Francisco. Oh, yeah. Guy in the group. Guy in the group. I went and got some coke.

I'd never had any before. Whoa. Yeah. It's not only that I don't have to eat. I can lose some weight. I can be slim. And I don't have to go to sleep. I just never wanted to go to bed.

That's all it was. But isn't it interesting, though? Because I've known guys, and certainly, you know, my path was not, you know, one that was calculated or I had no real forethought. Yeah. I knew I didn't want to write for other people. Yeah. You know, and I knew I, you know, I didn't really want to, you know, be on the other side of television. Right.

But at that time, you don't really think that, like, well, there's only about 10 guys that make a good living doing stand-up. That's right. You're like, I'm going to do it. Yeah. 10 guys that make a good living doing standup. You're like, I'm going to do it. But it seems that, do you ever look back at like saying no to Letterman on that show that, that you, well, obviously you're, you're sober now, so you have to, you know, you gotta frame your regrets as, as not regrets, but do you have regrets? No, I have some regrets. I have some regrets. Uh, I wish I'd have got, I wish I'd have got caught sooner. I mean, I wish I'd had to go into rehab sooner,

not do it as long as I did. There are certain regrets I have, yeah, but it's still, it's turned out to be incredible with me ending up on the ground. Look at this week, this year for me. I've got a film coming out, the documentary coming out. I've just became the 230th member of the Grand Ole Opry. Yeah.

I'm going to be on the South Dakota Hall of Fame September 9th. But here's the rub. I haven't told this to anybody. Yeah. This is the first time anybody knows about this. Yeah. Outside of close people to me. I have stage four prostate cancer.

Right now? I'm fighting it like crazy. Oh, man. I have to take two pills in about another 15 minutes. Yeah. I do chemo and chemo pill and prednisone every day. I'm just another 15 minutes. Yeah. I do chemo and chemo pill and a prednisone every day. I'm just keeping it down. Yeah.

That was one of those things where you might not have treated it quickly enough, right? I've had it for 20 years. They said I'd outlive it. Yeah. But they didn't realize that I was going to live this long. Yeah. I guess. They never thought of getting rid of the prostate?

I couldn't. I was too old by the time they decided I should get rid of it, it was too late. Yeah. So this is the first time ever on the air I'm going to take an abiraterone and a prednisone with my host. Okay. Which I have to do right now. I've had a lot of things happen. I've had a guy come out as gay on the air.

I've had a woman breastfeed. This is the first time anyone's taken cancer medication. And I'll tell you something. Yeah. This stuff takes out all my testosterone. Oh. And I also got the shot in my stomach last week before I came here. Now, what's the prognosis?

Prognosis is we have to, this controls it until we can find something else. Right now, they can just control it. Yeah. But they said this is going to take all your testosterone out, and we're warning you now. So the week after my first shot, I'm on a plane, on Delta Airlines. Yeah. And I'm flying. But they said this is going to take all your testosterone out, and we're warning you now. So the week after my first shot, I'm on a plane, on Delta Airlines, and I'm flying. I find myself tearing up at the end of Toy Story 4, and I think, God, this stuff really works. So I don't dare watch anything with Tom Hanks and Meg Ryan in it.

This is serious. Finally, you have feelings. I like Jane Austen. I look in South Dakota Public Broadcasting. Hopefully, a Jane Austen series is going to go up. Serious. I mean, that's where I am right now. Well, you know, what's interesting about you is, you know, you started out here in that scene in the late 60s. You kind of did.

I mean, you really did that old Hollywood thing. Yeah. Or the sort of fast track kind of like, you know, I mean, you must have met everybody like, you know, Crosby, Neil Young, Zappa. I always hung with funny musicians. Yeah. I never hung with comics that much. Yeah.

I hung with the funny, that's why I hung with Steve Martin. That's why I hung with him. But did you ever find yourself at the Manson Ranch or anything? No. Never got that far. Well, I mean, because he was around, like, you know, with the Beach Boys.

Yeah. And it felt like it was, like, oh, like Ed Begley Jr., did you hang out with him at all? I remember Ed very well, yes. From the Comedy Store?

I did from the Comedy Store, yes. And it just seemed like everybody was sort of around. There was old and new Hollywood and everyone was sort of around. Leonard Barr was living next door and all that. Dean Martin's uncle

played Dean Martin's uncle. He was living next door. Yeah. I remember played Dean Martin's uncle. He was living next door. Yeah. I remember one of the most bizarre things in the world. I get on the elevator. What is it, the Hampton? What is it next door? What's that?

Now, the Rock and Roll Hyatt? Yeah, the Hyatt. Yeah. So the Rock and Roll Hyatt. So I get on the elevator. Yeah. And I'm on with Cat Stevens. Yeah.

And Wide World is playing in the Muzak. And I look over at him and he goes, he rolls his eyes. It's just one of those moments. Those moments. I'll never forget. But I think the arrival into, like the arc that took you into the world of country music embracing you

is interesting. Yeah. Because you're hopped up on blow from the late 60s. Yeah. You turn Letterman down. You've had shots at your own show on network. Oh, did I ever?

Yes. A few, right? Dinah Shore Summer Show I did, and I was the only guy that was offered a pilot. And they gave me two English writers, British humor. And I just slowly, gracefully got out of it. Yeah. Because I wanted to work. What I wanted to do was work Vegas for $700, $500 a week, alternate with topless reviews, and play Keno.

To me, that was a big deal. That's all I wanted to do. Keno, drugs. Keno, drugs, and girls backstage, and that was it. To me, I thought, this is it. But you believed that and lived it for years. Years. But The Tonight Show, it's interesting,

the conversation in the doc about, you know, like Karatov is still, you know, when he has that moment, it's like, yeah, they just never, even though they put us on the Tonight Show, they'd always tell us it wasn't the Tonight Show. That's what they told me. I had one that he clapped all the way through the first commercial. But you didn't do it with Johnny. No, no. I was doing it with Roy Clark. And David Brenner.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I told, I told Freddie DeCordova after the show, I said, did you see that, Freddie? He says, yeah, it was not the Tonight Show. I ran into Freddie 10 years later

at the Crosby Golf Tournament. Yeah. I said, remember that night when you told me it wasn't the Tonight Show? He says, yeah, I was right, wasn't I? He still was that way.

Isn't that weird? Yeah. Did you meet, ever meet Carson? Now this is, this is what is interesting. I never got to do it with Carson,

get called over the couch, but I worked the Sahara in the lounge all the time. He would work the weekends at the Sahara with Jack Hagelash and the orchestra. So I'd go up and hang out at his dressing room. He would come and watch me through a special place when I was in the lounge. And I got to know him. And even after the show, we'd sit in the Kino area and talk. And what's great is like people in those days respect. Here's one of the biggest stars in the world. They go, hey, Johnny, love your show. Nobody's coming up saying, can I take a selfie?

Can I? Yeah, right. Sure. And John had this way about him. When we'd start walking to his room, we'd walk all the way through the casino. People would say, oh, and he'd just say, never keep, kept moving.

Nice to everybody. It never stopped. Right. And I saw him do that all the way up to the elevator and get in and go. Yeah. That's how it, that's how it was. That's And I saw him do that all the way up to the elevator and get in and go. Yeah. That's how it was. That's the way he was.

That's the way he was. Well, that's the interesting thing with the difference in levels of show business is like, you got to sell your CDs. Yeah. And the main act is back at the hotel. Mm-hmm. But it was not something you had a chip on your shoulder about. No, never did.

Oh, I never did. I loved what I was doing. I just, I loved it. So you're playing Keno, you do him blow, and you're opening in Vegas. And now, was Sammy out in Vegas with you?

Sammy had been opening for Elvis, but I think later on there was somebody else that came in after Sammy. Can't remember who it was, but somebody else was doing it. But Sammy lived there for years. Oh, he did for years.

Yeah. You know, Mitzi, a quick thing about Mitzi. Mitzi, when I got to the point of where I was living with Skip Stevenson in a house in St. Louis. You lived with Skip? Yeah. You know, Mitzi, a quick thing about Mitzi. Mitzi, when I got to the point of where I was living with Skip Stevenson in a house in the lake. You lived with Skip? Yeah. All we did was drugs. Yeah. We never went back to the comedy store. I stopped going to the comedy store for a year and a half because I didn't want people to see what I was turning into. Yeah. What year

was this? We would go to the country clubs in the valley and work and nobody noticed. I mean, here's Skip Stevenson from The Tonight Show. Here's Gary Mulder. we'd get up and play with the cowboys and with the western bands and that's all we did and then just get real people oh yeah and we stayed and we didn't go to the comedy store well after i got clean in 87 i hadn't been to the comedy store for a year and a half i went to mitzi and i was at the very bottom and 87 i was a door guy in 87 okay well that's when i was just coming yeah starting back in at the end of 87 starting back to store again i had nothing i was in debt 30 40 thousand dollars to credit card companies everything and mitzi said i came i came back i said mitzi can i work at the store she said yeah i'll put you on in weekends yeah and she helped me get a brand new

bronco she helped me stay in a hotel. I didn't have any business staying. It was expensive, but I wanted to treat myself. I wanted to come out and not go to an old place or have an old car. Yeah. And I remember I went out to a guy in Glendale here. Yeah. That was a car dealer.

And I went out because I wanted to get a Bronco. And I had a 1998 Mercedes with only working on four cylinders two cylinders are blown out yeah and i said i want to uh i want to trade it yeah i want to trade it and he says how's your credit record and he starts pulling on it's going and going like jesus i can't give you anything and i can't give you anything i said i want that bronco over there he said that's one of everything on it that's the most expensive and he i said, call Mitzi. He called Mitzi, and she said, he's going to be working at the Comedy Store. He'll have money.

I got the Bronco. I got to stay at that nice hotel. And when I was out on the job, I'd have the bellman keep my car and my stuff underneath. I'd come back and move that hotel. It was called the La Parque. And it was way over my head, but I wanted to treat myself nice. And it all came back. And I had way over my head, but I wanted to treat myself nice.

And it all came back. And I had a good friend, Valerie Pappas, who was a great... She's a comedian. Yes, comedian, singer, comedian. And of course,

the main thing was, out of all of this thing, man, I got to tell you this. In 1980, I got hired to come back to South Dakota to work for this couple, John and Lee Irvin,

this big festival in the park. Got to play in that pavilion where I used to work with Jerry Lee Lewis. We used to watch him. Yes. Got to play. When I got through, I walked over to get my check, and John Irvin was standing there, and I started to get the check, and I look, and there's this beautiful woman standing beside him, and I said, who are you?

He pulls the check back. He said, that's my daughter. I said, oh, and we've been together ever since. That's Anita. And she went through the hard times, the bad times. We had to split up for two years because my coke at the end.

What year was that? 85 and 86. So 87, that was where you really sobered up. That's where I had to go in. So I think I, I must've just left. You had just left.

The comedy story, was it late 87 you went back? It was back, I went back, yeah, I went back about September, October. Yeah, because I was like, I lost my mind on coke. I left. That comedy story, was it late 87 you went back? It was back, I went back yeah, I went back about September, October. Yeah, because I was like, I lost my mind on coke, I left. That's it. Yeah, I was

there like a little less than a year. You took my place. Thank you. I was hearing voices and I had to go to rehab and then go back to Boston to start over, so I must have just missed your return. You just missed me. Because when I was there, when I was just starting as a door guy that was when fucking Argus got out of rehab. That's right. And I was, I remember I was there, when I was just starting as a door guy, that was when fucking Argus got out of rehab.

That's right. And I remember I was there all the time because I was living in Crest Hill. Yes. You know, up on the hill there, Mitzi's place. And I was hanging around, and I remember I was standing outside with Belzer, and Argus comes walking up, and Belzer goes, oh, my, is this an apparition? Yeah. And he had just gotten out of rehab, and I had no idea of the history or anything. But he stayed sober since then.

He has stayed sober. I remember Alan Berski, Alan Berski's friend, I can't remember his name now, he was my dealer. I had a 55 Jaguar. At that apartment building? Yeah, I had a gorgeous 55 Jaguar and I just left. So I came back and my coke dealer said, I'm going to sell it for you.

She said, I got $10,000 for you. He says, here's eight. I'm going to borrow two. I'll give you the rest Monday. Never saw him again. And I paid. Leno still lets me forget I had that 1955 XK140 convertible. He never lets me forget that.

I look at that car now, and it's like, oh, my God. To this day, he never lets you forget. No, but it's one of those things, you know. Sure. That stupid stuff. So in 87, you get clean. Get clean. Took twice.

Yeah, well, it takes what it takes. Yeah. But how do you become part of the country music community? First of all, I had to get myself back in with, I started doing comedy clubs. Yeah. And I'd go to Zany's in- Chicago with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with,

with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with,

with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with,

with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with,

with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with,

with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with,

with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with,

with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with,

with, with, with and that's when the Nashville Network started. Okay. And I thought, you know what? Yeah. I'm going to give this a try. Yeah. And it really worked well for me. Yeah. I'm working with, I'm on doing the Ralph Emery show 50, 60 times.

He's like the Johnny Carson of country music. Yeah. I mean, I was doing that. Then I became the regular on the last year and a half of Hee Haw.

I mean. Was that a rebooted Hee Haw? Yeah. It was just, it was out without Buck Died. It was just Roy. Okay. I did the reboot.

Yeah. God, you remember things. I'm so glad you bringboot. I did the reboot. Yeah. God, you remember things. I'm so glad you bring that up because it was the reboot. Yeah. And there's all this stuff in between. I go back and I look at things. Being a judge on the gong show and working with Barris was one of the greatest things in the world.

How much coke was on that set? Oh, my God. I'll tell you one night it happened. I'm with Pat McCormick. I drive to the Tonight Show with judges. We get through. We're back in the dressing room. Pat had to shake so bad at that time.

I would have to brace his hand with the Coke spoon, move his head down slowly to it. So we get through, and we get through, and we get all cleaned up, and we go out to his Orange Rolls Royce, to the Korean Interior, and we head for NBC. And he didn't tell me what we're going to do. We pull into the lot, and he goes, hey, Pat. We get in. We walk in. I see Johnny down there talking didn't tell me what we're going to do. We pull into the lot. And he goes, hey, Pat. Yeah. We get in. And we walk in. I see Johnny down there talking to the guys.

The curtain's about to open. Yeah. And Pat goes over to stage left. He starts undressing. Yeah. And he's handing me his pants and his coat and his underwear and his shoes and his socks. And I go, what? And we get through it.

Johnny goes out and starts his monologue. Yeah. And about two minutes into it, Pat streaks. Yeah. And this is when streaking was a thing. Yes. Yes. Big deal. Big 350-pound leprechaun. Yeah.

And so he told me, by the way, he told me to go around to the other side with his clothes and wait for him. Well, he came around, and just before he got there, he slipped and fell and hurt his ankle. So we got this giant naked guy, 350 pounds, trying to get a coat wrapped around him, getting him out to his car and it was a great moment and so that night

watching the show they just put a black but they let it go they let it happen all you see is Pat's head bobbing and Johnny looking kind of amused

realizing what happened so I thought well I was part of that I was over there at stage left and I was stage right and Johnny partied too oh yeah

I never partied with him. Yeah. See, Martin was in a poker game with him, I think, that went forever. For years, yeah. For years, those guys had a poker game. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. But I got to know Johnny pretty well and never got to do the show.

In fact, Johnny, I talked about it. He said, Johnny said, it's better we don't bring it up because there's two producers that really don't like you and Freddie's not going to put you on with your props. And he said, I said, don't worry about it. It's fine. And we just were fine with that. Okay, so you're sober in the late 80s. You're doing hee-haw.

Yeah. You're jumping up in the cornfield or whatever. Right, yeah. Doing all this stuff, yeah. But you kind of stayed in the Nashville community. I did. I'm also working comedy clubs. I'm making as much as you could make as a headliner then.

I was making about $3, could make as a headliner then. I was making about $3,500 to $4,000 a week, which is pretty good for not being a star. Some of the stars would take the door. Sure. I wasn't at that level. But I was doing okay. But you had to work. I had to work.

I could see. And you're not opening for people in Vegas? No. Yeah, I'm doing that too. I'm opening for Merle Haggard. I'm working with Roger Miller. I'm working with all these different people. Well, that seems like the Roger Miller friendship was very important to you. Roger is very important because of that guitar over there sitting over there that I've got.

That Gibson Hummingbird? This is my Gibson J200. Yeah. I'll try to make this as quickly as I can. That's okay. I'm doing so much coke. I'm getting $3,500 a week, and I'm playing Japanese copies of Gibson J-200s made in Mexico. It's like playing barbed wire in a fence post.

Yeah. But I thought I was poor because all my money was going into Coke. So this guy comes and says, a guy played with Engelbert over at the Hilton, and he has this beautiful J-200. He wants $300 for it. I'm going to bring it over and let you play it. I played it for two days. It was just gorgeous. The best.

He said, you want it. I said, Fats, I've been losing more money than I've ever lost in my life. I have no money left. I'm working Disneyland on weekends just to try to break even to come back. You'd make it just in time

to go on in front of Roger. I don't have the money. He says, I got it. Okay, I've got to come and get the guitar. Yeah. So here's what's happening. I'm up all night.

I'm looking around. I have no money. I'm looking through my dressing room trying to find any kind of change. I got to get money just to get a cab to go to the airport. Yeah. Because I got to go to Disneyland, fly in to- How are you functioning?

You're up two, three days at a time? That's what I did. I just made myself stay up. I just function. Yeah. That's what I did. But so I don't know what to do. So I'm going to go up to my room and see if maybe I got some change in something.

And I'm walking toward the elevators. The elevator doors are opening and closing. It's back and forth. I walk in and sitting in the corner, drunk, is opening and closing like this back and forth. I walk in and sitting in the corner drunk is one of Roger's guitar players, Tom Scarlyle.

He's trying to reach the button to go to his room and he can't reach far enough so the elevator's going up and down and he's probably on 10

and he can only reach to five. So I stand him up. I said, Tom, being the compassionate person I am, Tom,

you got any money on you? And he points to his shirt pocket. I take out a bunch of crumpled bills, push his button, and I walk out. I got $7. Yeah. So I'm walking back to my dressing room, and I got to get my guitar to go to Disneyland. And being the addict I am, I look up at the key. I decide to go pay a six-way six for $2.

Yeah. That gives me $3. It gives me $4 to get to the airport. $3 on a tip to cab guy a dollar. When I get there, I'm opening for the King's Entree. Bob Shane will loan me 10 bucks. So I'm going up to get my Japanese coffee with Gibson J200 made in Mexico

and this beautiful guitar. I put in the six-way six. I come walking back down. I look up at the board. I've hit 38, 39, 40, 48, 49, 50. I've hit a six out of six for $1,000. Yeah. Just at that time, Fats Johnson's walking into the casino. How much you make on that?

$1,000. $1,000. I was playing 50 cents a week. Yeah, yeah. So I walk up, I get my $1,000, I give it the keynote shift, $50. I get Fats Johnson $300 for the guitar. Take my Japanese coffee, Gibson J200, piece of crap, back out to my dressing room, come down, and I'd go to Disneyland.

That's how I got that guitar. That's great. What were you doing at Disneyland? I was opening for the Kingston Trio at 1 o'clock in the afternoon. I'd open for them, and then I would get back, and they would take me back to Anaheim. I would fly back just 45 minutes

before the show with Roger, and I would get dressed and go open for Roger Miller. What'd you learn from Roger? Roger, the only show I ever missed, I'd been up too many days, and I went up to my room to change before I went to the show. They say, I know security's banging on the door. I look over, and it's 8.20. I should have been on 20 minutes ago.

I come running out. I take the elevator down, run through the casino, up to the backstage, to the dressing rooms. Nobody there. I run over to the backstage, the dressing rooms. Nobody there. I run over to the edge of the stage. Roger comes off. It's 8.30. Has me in my coat, my hat, and my guitar and says, you were great, kid.

And went back out as Roger. He went out and did me. Did they know it was him, though? Yeah. He did my act for 25 minutes and saved me. I mean, literally, that's the only show I ever missed. He saved me doing that. Did you ever deal with the mob?

Yeah. I had a guy. So I was working. I ever missed. He saved me doing that. Did you ever deal with the mob? Yeah. I had a guy. So I was working. I was getting a lot of jobs in the lounge. I couldn't figure out why because every time I'd get my check, I would go up to a certain room and give a guy named Rudy four $100 bills. Yeah. And he'd always say, yeah, you're going to be okay, kid.

Then it kind of, after a while, he wasn't so sure I could get the money anymore. Well, here's what happened. I'm up one day and one morning, I'm walking to the elevators. I've been up all night. It's about 8 in the morning. Elevator's open and there's Rudy's wife in an embrace with her tennis instructor. And they jump back and they see me. And I look at her and she looks at me.

And after that, I started getting a lot more work in. So I know she must have said to Rudy, the guy's great. You got to hire him more. You had a secret, man. And I know that's how I kept working the lounge doing that. That's a good one. That's a good lounge story. Yeah, it's a great lounge story.

You kept the secret. Yes, I kept the secret. You were going to fuck it up. I kept working and kept giving Rudy his 400 bucks. All right, so you wanted to talk about the bottom, hitting the wall. Oh, hit the wall, man. I hit the wall really bad. It went into.

What year is this, 86? 86. Yeah. End of 86. Yeah. And I'd gone. What had happened, I'd split up with Nita. I had a house in Studio City, sold the house.

And you had this son, right, from a past marriage. I had a son in the past. He was still in Rapid City, yeah. Sean, my son Sean. Yeah, it's interesting because, you know, in the doc, it kind of talks about how you chose show business over him. I left him when he was 10 months old. I mean, it just took off.

How did that sit with you? It just, luckily, he forgave me. He forgave you after you became drug buddies. Yes, exactly. We became drug buddies after that. Yeah, we're doing coke together. I literally sold the house, split up with Nita, and went to Tahoe to end my life. And I tried to do it and spent like $80,000 in a year.

You tried to do it how? Just by? Yeah. Came back and. But you didn't actively hang yourself. You just tried to burn yourself down? I tried to burn myself out completely. It just got to be.

Pretty soon I couldn't do clubs anymore. I couldn't do anything. Why? Because you were unreliable or you just sat? I was unreliable. I knew I'd be unreliable. Not funny? Couldn't do it. I didn't think I was going to be funny. I would still go out every so often and do an act opening for a country act. And I would get by with that. It was 25 minutes and fly back. I was okay.

But I said I was just putting all this money away. So I go into rehab. And first of all, I'm with Skip Stephenson. I said, Skip, I got to go to the hospital. He said, yeah. He said, I know. He said, you're going into rehab next week, right?

I said, no, I got to go right now, Skip. Take me there. My heart's bad. I don't know what I'm doing. He takes me there. The doctor slows my heart down and says, if you do this again, you, take me there. My heart's bad. I don't know what I'm doing. He takes me there. The doctor slows my heart down and says, if you do this again, you're going to die. I go back to Skip's place.

And about that time, Bill Kirkenbauer was going on the road. I was going to house sit for him. So he said, I want you to house sit for me in a month. But he said, you better go into rehab. So I went upstairs in St. Joseph's Hospital behind NBC. I stayed there for 35 days. I went right to the heroin guys because I knew they had all the chocolate. After? And that's why I went right there.

Oh, right. Yeah. Gained 40 pounds. Yeah. Came out and house sit. And I'm with Bill Krigenbauer's house. And I think, you know what? I can do a little bit again because I'm writing

and nothing's working. I try it one more time, and so there's a guy who used to roam the valley with a beeper, and if he wasn't there in 30 minutes, it was like Domino's.

It was free. He was never late. Yeah. I get a half a gram of Coke. Yeah. I put out two lines. I take one up one side, and boom, my heart hits.

I fall to the floor. I crawl over to pull the phone off. I call for 911. I crawl over to pull the phone off. I call for 911. I crawl over to the door, out to the curb, wait for the ambulance and fire truck to come. They took me back. The same guy was on duty and said to me, I heard him say, if we can slow his heart down, I think he can make it. And he got me down. He got through.

He said, now, do you believe me? You're going to die. If you don't go upstairs to the rehab unit, you're going to die. So this is literally less than a week in between? Yes, in a week. Yeah. Less than a week. And he said, so you're going to go back to rehab?

I says, no. But I got it this time. I'm not going to do it anymore. And I didn't. I stopped. I stopped doing it. And that was March of 87. Did you do the thing?

Yeah. Did you do the meetings and stuff? I did a lot of meetings. Yeah. A lot of meetings all the time. Yeah, I'm coming up on 24, I think. Wow, you're 24. I think I'm 30.

I think I was 36 in May. That's great, man. It is great. And now, I like the whole part where Vince Gill is in the doc, and he's a sweet guy. Oh, great guy. One of the best guitar players ever. He's the GOAT, man. He's the GOAT of country music. Yeah, he's like the history of country. He's in Eagles now. Oh, great guy. One of the best guitar players ever. He's the GOAT, man. He's the GOAT of country music.

Yeah, he's like the history of country. He's in the Eagles now. Oh, is he playing with the Eagles? Yeah, he's with the Eagles now. Isn't that something? On their farewell trip, will we? Sure. 2025.

He's going to be, and Joe's still with him? Yeah. Joe Walsh? Walsh, he was in, I was with him in a show with Marty Stewart, Late Night Jam, back in April. Holy shit. What a great guy he is. He's a great guy. Oh, he in April. Holy shit. What a great guy he is. He's a great guy. Oh, he's incredible.

Marty Stewart, what a musician that guy is. Oh, Marty's the best. Marty invited me, and Vince inducted me. That's how it happened. And I saw those pictures with Akuf, who was some of the old-timers from the Opry. Yeah. Was it Roy Akuf? Was he alive?

No. Roy got me in way, way back, but I got guys like John Conlon, got Jeannie Seeley, Connie Smith, all these people. Bobby Osborne died two weeks ago. He was one of the greatest, and so did McReynolds died, Jesse McReynolds. The two of the oldest active guys are gone now. Bill Anderson's the oldest active working guy now. And were you always a country music guy? Always, always was. Johnny Cash was your dude. Yeah, Cash was my guy. the oldest active working guy now. And were you always a country music guy? Always.

Always was. Johnny Cash was your dude. Yeah, Cash was my guy. My life was four-letter words, man, although I don't use them. Yeah. I mean, I'm Gary Mule Deer, three four-letter words.

I'm married to Nita, which is a four-letter word. I did coke. I did golf, saved my life. Golf. That's another thing we didn't talk about. Golf. I took up golf.

Yeah. I mean, sing, play, pick, what show, whatever. Everything was four-letter words. Yeah. But, yeah, golf turned me around. When I came out of rehab, I needed a new addiction. Yeah. I needed to walk off that weight I'd put on.

Sure. So there's a comedian, Ronnie Kenny, that I knew. I know Ronnie. He kind of taught me golf. He was great. He was a comedy store guy. Yeah, a great comedy store guy. Great guy.

But he was a club thrower. Yeah. When I started playing golf with him, I said, I can't do it. He was great. He was a comedy store guy. Yeah, a great comedy store guy. Great guy. But he was a club thrower. Yeah. When I started playing golf with him, I said, I can't do it. That's one thing I'm not going to do. Yeah. And I started walking Balboa and Encino in the morning, and I would take a break and have lunch. I would walk in the afternoon, then I would do the comedy store at night.

And that's how I started taking the weight off and started getting myself back into shape. You got good at golf? You good? No, I was pretty good at one time, but I'm 47 when I started. I mean, I'm 47 years old. One day I'm out on Balboa and Smokey Robinson comes over from the other fairway and says to me,

Mildred, have you ever done a celebrity golf tournament? I said, I have no idea what they are. He said, I'm going to take you to one next week. Roy Clark's. So we went over to Roy Clark's celebrity golf tournament. He knows you.

Yeah. And there's five, six entertainers. We all did 10 minutes the night before for all the people in the tournament. Sure. And one fed into the other one. And suddenly, I'm working with my heroes. I'm suddenly in the LPGA, the ladies LPGA, the Dinah Shore in Palm Springs. And I got the guy, Terry Wilcox, calling me on my first day for my practice round.

Palm Springs. Yeah. And I got the guy, Terry Wilcox, calling me on my first day for my practice round. He said, you're going out with Joe DiMaggio, John Havlicek, and Johnny Unitas. Is that all right? Worst tee shot I ever had in my life. Yeah. But, I mean, that's how I started meeting, because I've been a Yankee fan 72 years. Yeah.

I mean, to play suddenly with Yogi Bear, and I'm playing with Whitey Ford, and I'm playing with Hank Bauer. Wow. to play with suddenly with Yogi Bear and I'm playing with Whitey Ford, I'm playing with Hank Bauer and all this stuff's coming in and I'm playing with all my heroes from, from TV, Dale Robertson from Tales of Wells Fargo and, and all these, it just became.

It's a whole community that is Celebrity Golf. Yeah. Pat Boone. I'm working with Pat Boone. And Alice Cooper. And Alice Cooper. Yeah. I've done 23 of Alice Cooper's 27 tournaments.

Yeah. You know, just we, we build a teen center because of that. Oh, yeah. I mean, it's all because I'm all these rock and roll things that I do or country shows people I do. But meeting all my heroes and playing golf with them, it's been absolutely incredible. Smokey, I just talked to Smokey. Did you really?

Yeah. My wife's favorite. He's my wife. He's got a new record out. Tell your wife to get the new record. It's called GASMs. GASMs? get the new record. It's called GASMs. GASMs? Yeah.

I'll try to remember. GASMs. Oh, God. But your wife stuck through all this. She did. We split up for two years. Because she couldn't take it. She stayed with my manager.

She couldn't take it. I couldn't be around anybody. Yeah. And she started co-managing with my manager, David Martin. Yeah. Out of, out of, out here in Encino. But David stuck with me. God bless him.

How he did, I'd never know. But, yeah, we split up until we could actually – I was safe. Finally, in 1990 – I think about in 1991, I was working with Crystal Gale on New Year's Eve. She came up, and we decided, okay, we can trust Gary now. But it took that. Yeah. It took that. And then the last big business relationship was with Johnny Mathis.

Johnny Mathis, which I'm playing a golf tournament. I'm playing the Crosby in Winston-Salem, North Carolina. The night before, I'm working with Pat Boone, Bob Hope, Gerald Ford, Catherine Crosby, Vince Gill. We're all doing 10 minutes apiece. Next morning, we went to the driving range. Johnny Mathis is next to me. He turns to me and says, Gary, the lady that's been with me 21 years, Janine Bernier,

who's a comedian for years, is retiring. Would you like the job? I said, yes. He said, you'll go on in the middle. And he turned back to hitting balls. For 29 years, he comes out, does 35. I come out and do 25. He comes back, does an hour and 15.

I've been doing that for almost 29 years. Incredible show. Incredible. What's amazing to me is, like, you know, I'm a guy, you know, who, you know, is immersed in the mythology of the comedy store. I still work there. Yeah. You know, I love the place, even though I got, it's almost, there's a relationship with it. Like, it's almost where the trauma happened.

Yeah. Because I was, you know, when I was a doorman, lost my mind. Right. But I love the place. The only place I work in town. I'm afraid to go there. I'm afraid nobody will look at me like, who in the hell are you? Well, that might be true.

But if I'm there, I'll certainly introduce you to everybody. Thank you. And, you know, Peter Shore runs the place. Oh, Peter. Oh, my God. Yeah. You know know Peter forever when they were

they were kids well that whole family had the there was a big sort of we babysat all of them yeah it was there was a fight between the brothers

but Peter yes has got the keys to the place but he lives in Portland but he's really turned it around and it's got great yeah is Scott around

Scott's in San Diego what about and Paulie has a house right above the comedy store and the sister died she died ah yeah I didn't know that yeah yes Scott's in San Diego. What about? And Paulie has a house right above the comedy store. Okay, and the sister? Died. She died. You know that.

Yeah. Yes. But they're around. Sandy. Yeah, Sandy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. But yeah, man, you know, you could come say hi.

Where do you live? I live in the Spirit of South Dakota. Oh, so you don't come out. I don't come out of here. You live on the ranch? What's left of it? We just had to sell the ranch. After 70 years of my life, my sister was running it.

We had to let it go. It was the last place it wasn't developed. I can't even, it's hard for me to even look at it now. They're just developing the whole thing. Oh, really? Yeah. That's hard. It was cool.

From the time I was 10 until we went out there, I was 10 years old. I lived on a horse. Yeah. I mean, I lived on a horse, and I hunted and fished. Sure. I even was a guide. I knew we'd go guide without a license for hunters and fishermen. Oh, yeah.

I did all that stuff, anything I could do to— Stay engaged. Yeah, to stay engaged. Yeah. Not have to work too hard. Yeah. But I was always playing pinball machines. I was always gambling doing this.

I always had to do something. Did you give that up? Just to keep even. I still like to play four-card Keno machines after I do a Johnny Mathis show at a casino. But you know what? It's under control now. It's not like it was. I still like to play four-card Keno, and I will forever.

I mean, my wife hates to even think about it. She went through hell with me with the gambling. But I still like to play four-card keno machines. It's so funny. It's keno because it's such a solitary thing. It's the worst game in the world. But you're not even sitting next to people. Gary Shandling had the greatest, greatest

impression of the game of keno. Yeah. This is Gary Shandling. Yeah. God bless you, Gary. This is a game of keno. 19, 24, 37. Here's another one you don't have, 11. That was always funny. He was great. Oh, God, yeah. Yeah. I remember one time he was working at Caesars. I was working at the Sahara. I called him in his dressing room from my dressing room. I said, Gary, you're going to called him in his dressing room from my dressing room.

I said, Gary, you're going to go on with your hair like that? He says, what? What's wrong with my hair? He said, oh, you bastard. He hung up on me. But I mean, literally, I got him. I mean, I got him just for that couple of seconds. I got him.

Hit that insecurity button. Oh, yeah. It was amazing with him. And you're still in touch with Steve and Dave. Yeah, I still am in touch with them and Jay and everyone. They've all given me great reviews

and things and press things about all this stuff and it's just been incredible. Yeah. And sometime today before I leave, I want to tell you

about this guitar over here. That thing must be worth $30,000 now. It's got to be now because of the names. I don't really have time to read all the names here on this. But yeah, it's all signed up. It's all signed.

Like Willie's. In fact, it's signed up so much in the back. The last two guys, Steve Earle and Keith Urban, had to sign it on the top part. I had the back sprayed now so nothing can come off. It started with Sheryl Crow at the Letterman Show. I had her sign it first. Then I went to do the AT&T at Pebble Beach. Yeah.

And Glenn Frey and Huey Lewis came up after I did a cash song and said, God, it was great. I had them sign it. That's how it started. Yeah. And it took off from there. I think it's 55 signatures.

It sounds like it's going to end up in that country music museum. It's going to go down there. Hall of Fame. I'm going to take it down there to where they can put it and the thing that turns, you know, the little thing.

Yeah. They can look at the back of it. I'm not going to give it to them, but I'm going to loan it to them. They there to where they can put it and a thing that turns, you know, the little thing that they can look at the back of it. I'm not going to give it to them, but I'm going to loan it to them. They have to see this. It's got everybody on it. Yeah, yeah. And I love the doc, and it was great to get to know you because what I was saying before is that, you know, when you're my age or you're coming up, I'm 59 now.

Yeah. But I was still immersed in all the guys that I grew up watching. And, you know, when I worked at the store, I was looking at those pictures. And you always wonder what happened to people. Yeah. Like, I knew you were still friends with Letterman. I knew that you were, you know, I saw that picture that, you know, Gary Muehl, The Air Medicine Show.

Yeah. Like, I had an image of you in my mind and I made assumptions about you. But you were one of those guys sort of like, what happened to that guy? Yeah. But you never stopped working. Never. And you were always out there making a living. And a good one.

Oh, great. People come with me all the time and say, Gary Muehl, you were always out there making a living. And a good one. Oh, great. People come with me all the time and say, Gary Muehler, you were always my favorite comedian. I forgot all about you. And I love that. I think that's fine. And you're like, you're lucky because I'm doing the same act. I'll refresh your memory.

I'm doing a lot of it. Probably a lot of it. And it's working better than ever. I can't stop doing it. I'm either blessed or cursed with having this material that just always seems to just, it just keeps working. And I bring together families. That's why I like doing the Opry. The kids are laughing with their parents.

Parents laughing with their kids. Normally, they each laugh at something differently. You don't like it. And, you know, I'm a G-rated guy. I just am. That's why I miss out on a lot of TV and great movies. I can't do language. Well, you were in a few movies, but you didn't make the, you were in, you had that part in

Annie Hall. Yeah, yeah. Cheech and Chong. Yeah, yeah. Up in Smoke. Up in Smoke and The Jerk. And The Jerk. Yeah.

And you got cut out of two, but, and then you, you're just in the, the source scene. Yeah. At the source with Woody Allen when he comes to LA. And you know why they told me later on? Because my line was funnier than his before him. I bet you. I was talking to the on? Because my line was funnier than his before him. I bet you. I was talking to the girl saying, the concert was incredible. He blew up a grand piano and electrocuted a dog.

Are you going to finish those sprouts? Yeah. That's what I said. And evidently, it went to just me being cut out and asking Woody what he wanted to eat from the waitress. He said, I'll have the sprouts. Yeah. And that's what happened to me. I took all my friends to the movie to see it.

And I can see them doing the long shot. I see my words being mouthed. I thought, oh, God, another one. A guy who used to open for me is a big comedy star now, and I think he's one of the funniest guys around. You ever watch Nate Bargatze? Oh, God, he's incredible. Isn't he funny?

Oh, God, yeah. Yeah. Well, man, it was great talking to you, and I wish you the best, and good luck with the ongoing treatment. This was, thank you. Hope you're around for another many years. Yeah, I'm going to keep at it, man. Thanks, Gary. You too, man.

I loved it. Okay, there you go. That's a first. Cancer meds. That's a first. Cancer meds. That's a first. I hope he does okay with that stuff. Once again, show business is my life, but I can't prove it. The documentary is now available to buy or rent.

Also, hang out for a minute, folks. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. bonus podcast episode where I talked to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly.

This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. It's a night for the whole family. Be a part of Kids Night when the Toronto Rock take on the Colorado Mammoth at a special 5 p.m. start time on Saturday, March 9th at First Ontario Centre in Hamilton. The first 5,000 fans in attendance will get a Dan Dawson bobblehead courtesy of Backley Construction. Punch your ticket to Kids Night on Saturday, March 9th at 5 p.m. in Rock City at torontorock.com.

in rockcity at torontorock.com. Okay, so this week we posted the 10th installment of Ask Mark Anything for Full Marant subscribers. I answered a bunch of your questions, like this one about repeat guests. What made you decide to start doing repeat guests for a full show? And how do you decide who gets to come back to the garage? Well, it became apparent that after doing this since however long we've been doing it,

which is a long time, what is it, 19, it's like a long time, since 2009. So there are people that we interviewed early on that have had entire lives since we talked to them. And it'd be silly not to be open to sort of kind of complete the arc or at least this portion of their life. So that's one of the reasons. Another reason is there are people that I like talking to. So a combination of those things is what decides whether they come back to the garage, whether I like them. And we had a rapport, uh, and mixed, uh,

with how long it's been since I've been here. But, uh, but sometimes people just like to hear me talk to people I know and usually comics. So we figured why not do more of that, especially now with the strike. I mean,

that makes a big difference. A lot of the people that I get are out promoting things and they're on junkets and we kind of wedge them in, but that shit is over. That's okay. You can only have so many actors. To get the Ask Mark Anything episodes and all the weekly bonus episodes, sign up for the full Marin. Just click on the link in the episode description or go to WTFpod.com and click on WTF Plus. This is only take two on this guitar piece. It's okay. Thank you. © transcript Emily Beynon guitar solo Thank you. Thank you. ¶¶ ¶¶ Boomer lives, monkey in La Fonda, cat angels everywhere.