WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1462 - Nimesh Patel

Episode Date: August 17, 2023

Nimesh Patel got advice from his comedy hero Chris Rock that comics need to get personal in order to become universal. After that, Nimesh was able to take his background as a first generation Indian-American whose dad owned a liquor store, a med-school drop out, a cancer survivor with a Jewish wife, and turn it all into an act that works on equally well on stage as it does on TikTok. Nimesh also tells Marc about the time he resisted becoming a pawn in the culture war after a college performance that went wrong. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

You can get anything you need with Uber Eats. Well, almost almost anything. So no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats. But meatballs and mozzarella balls, yes, we can deliver that. Uber Eats. Get almost almost anything. Order now. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. Death is in our air.

This year's most anticipated series, FX's Shogun, only on Disney+. We live and we die. We control nothing beyond that. An epic saga based on the global best-selling novel by James Clavel. To show your true heart is to risk your life. When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive. FX's Shogun, a new original series, streaming February 27th, exclusively on Disney+. 18 plus subscription required.

T's and C's apply. Lock the gates! Alright, let's do this. How are you, what the fuckers? What the fuck buddies? What the fuck nicks? What's happening? Today, Nimesh Patel uh he's a funny

guy I didn't know this guy I'd heard his name and I'd heard about some uh controversy he'd gotten into by being sort of uh pulled off stage shut down after doing a joke uh at a at a college show he was at a college show for a group of, I think, Asians in the college. He was the guest for having been the first South Asian person to write on SNL. And he did a joke at a college event that I believe is a good joke. I believe the logic stands. I believe its heart was in the right place, but it didn't sit well with the organizers. They felt that it triggered some people

or it offended some people. And I think it was really a misunderstanding of a, it was a, you know, it was a bold joke, but he was shut down from the show and removed from the stage, basically. So I wanted to talk to him about that. But also in the course of getting to know his material, he's a great comic. Very funny.

He's got that New York thing. He's got, you know, he definitely came up in New York. I know what it looks like when somebody comes up in New York. I can hear the tone. I can hear the inflection. I can hear the tone. I can hear the inflection. I can hear the cadence. I generally know if they're younger comics, uh, where all those influences are and who they are, which ones of my peers they are. So it was, uh, it was good to, uh, to talk

to him and get to know him. So that that's happening. That is happening for you people. Nimesh Patel soon. I'll be doing five shows at Helium in St. Louis, September 14th through 16th. Then I'll be at the Las Vegas Wise Guys on September 22nd and 23rd for four shows. And in October, I'm at Helium in Portland, Oregon on October 20th through 22nd for five shows. Those shows are selling out. I believe I have a show at Largo. I do. September 6th. I'll try to get that up on the website for you LA people or people traveling to LA. September 6th, a solo comedy show as I try to put together the hour or so necessary for touring next spring. Is it spring? Is January

spring? I'm going to be doing a couple of chunks of touring in the spring and fall because I'm a comedian and I'm still doing a lot of comedy. So that's going to happen. You know, something is kind of, I don't know if I'm on the wrong side of things. I don't look, I don't, I do know that I got worked up in my car looking at my phone. Yeah, for a couple of reasons. First of all, there's just this never-ending, any time a movie comes out that pushes any buttons whatsoever,

usually there's just a tsunami of anonymous no-talents, bitter about their lack of cultural agency who who just pile on the courageous work of artists and creative people i mean that's just the nature of social media and of platforms and of quickbait press and it's just something we've you know gotten used to but sometimes the effect is is uh detrimental to to the the sort of um rising and and and celebration of of tremendous pieces of work storytelling plays theater film comedy whatever it just it's just the way it it goes now but then when it becomes more specific i question that as well and like for instance i went to see oppenheimer and i'm a relatively smart guy uh my i don't believe that my education was that good because I wasn't very interested as a younger person in much of the education I got,

but watching Oppenheimer, I had no idea that he was a Jew, which is crazy. Cause I, I tend to know those things and I had no idea that there was a subtext to this story, which was really about a Nazi genocide, a reaction to Nazi anti-Semitism,

and a reaction from a group of Jews who were scientists and physicists and engineers, which was part of the incentive to creating a weapon that would stop Hitler. Though, after all was said and done, Hitler had been stopped and the project moved on. But for all intents and purposes, it was about, it was a reaction in many ways to not, you know, not just anti-Semitism, but to genocide, to attempted genocide. But my point is that it is a Jewish story. It is a Jewish story. And in watching the movie, I was thrilled to learn that being the, I guess, adult that I am in terms of that particular piece of history. But I was excited to see it so well portrayed and well acted and well constructed as a film and as a story. And after the fact, I had absolutely no problem that Killian Murphy played Oppenheimer, a Jew,

an Irish guy. I didn't even really think about it, and even now that I'm thinking about it, I have no problem with that. Does that make me a bad Jew? Am I not on the right side of things in terms of Jewish representation? Do I have a deep problem when non-Jews play Jews? I don't. I know some people have an issue with non-Jews playing Jews in an overly Jewish way, that when you see a non-Jew, you know, taking on the tics and habits and stereotypical tics and habits of Jews, the, hey, I don't know, I would have to think about it. I guess I could see that as what they call Jew face to a degree, if it is not coming from a organic place or a studied place if it is meant as a mockery. And sometimes that kind of thing can be a mockery without meaning to be. And I get that.

But there seems to be this pre, it's not even out yet, this movie Maestro that Bradley Cooper did about a specific time in the life of the composer Leonard Bernstein. Now, or Leonard Bernstein, sorry, did I non-Jew it? Leonard Bernstein. Now look, I guess there was an issue with the nose. I guess that some people, some Jewish groups, I guess that some people, some Jewish groups, before the movie has premiered, had an issue with the nose. And Bradley Cooper decided to use a prosthetic nose to look more like Leonard Bernstein. And right now, I don't have a problem with it. Does that make me a bad Jew? Am I on the wrong side of things? And of course that argument probably deepens into like, why couldn't they have got a Jew to play Leonard Bernstein? I don't know. I know there's plenty of Jewish actors and actresses. Uh, I don't know if they necessarily would have been good or bad at playing Leonard Bernstein.

I don't know. There's only a few Jewish movie stars. There's only ever been a few Jewish movie stars. I could probably name them over time. There were more Jews back in the day doing the big movies than there are now. But I mean, you've got your Sandler, you've got your Stiller, uh, you've got your Paul Rudd, but, uh, but ultimately I just, it, it kind of, it kind of baffles me that these are the sort of protest points or the, the crisis points, the, the,

where the juice is around making a statement about anti-Semitism. I mean, the world is dying culturally and literally, and you want to nitpick about the intent of a nose as an anti-Semitic statement? I mean, come on. I mean, it's clear that Bradley Cooper immersed himself in this story. He thought it was an amazing story to be told about one of the great composers of the 20th century. There's no doubt that this is a tribute and an homage and an interpretation of the genius of a great artist that almost all people that almost all people of all ages know nothing about

zero an american genius okay you know he he wrote mid uh you know west side story but this guy was an important composer that changed the popularity and and focus on classical music and and i don't think that bradley cooper going into it decided like you know i gotta jew this up i gotta put on a jew nose and jew it up i i don't think that was his intent. It couldn't have been. His intent was not anti-Semitic. Why would he do that at the center of that movie? And whether or not he could have found or chose to even look for a Jewish actor to play Leonard Bernstein, would it have gotten the same attention of Bradley Cooper doing it? Telling this part of this story of this great Jewish composer?

You know, sure, I mean, maybe you could have got a Jewish actor to do it for a National Geographic miniseries, but am I not responding to the wave of anti-Semitism that is enveloping the world properly, something I talk about constantly and push back against constantly by not becoming obsessed or focused on Bradley Cooper's prosthetic nose for his portrayal

of Leonard Bernstein, for not focusing on the fact that Bradley Cooper, as far as I know, is not a Jew. Am I on the wrong side of things or am I okay to be excited to learn more and see more of the interpretation of this great Jewish composer's work done by an actor and director and writer who obviously is, is obsessed to the point that he thinks it's an important story to be told. I don't know. I don't know. Maybe my heart's in the wrong place, but my innate reaction, same with Oppenheimer. It's like, look, I thought Oppenheimer was a great Jewish story. And the fact that Killian Murphy wasn't Jewish, even in retrospect, doesn't

bother me because now I know that story and that portrayal was real. It was an honest portrayal was real it was an honest portrayal done by a great actor and i'm happy that story was told about a jew and that it put uh uh it made his new his jewishness a important part of the story even looking at you like that well then i'm gonna get into trouble even looking at pictures of oppenheimer i'm i'm not like well there's a jewish guy and there are certainly plenty of jewish actors in oppenheimer but uh but again, you know, I'm excited to see Maestro. I've been excited about it for like the first I heard about it. I thought what a bold, weird story to tell for Bradley Cooper, a guy who can make a movie and can act his fucking guts out.

I was excited to learn about Leonard Bernstein. I was excited to learn about Leonard Bernstein. The fact that Leonard Bernstein's family, his kids, had to step into the fray and defend Bradley Cooper's nose. nose defend bradley cooper's prosthetic nose as honoring their father and even speaking for their father and saying he would have been fine with it that that had to happen it's just crazy to me it's crazy without anyone having seen the movie i don't know i just don't know. I just don't know. Maybe I'm wrong about this. Maybe I have to do some deeper thinking about it. Maybe I'm even pronouncing his name wrong. Maybe it's Leonard Bernstein.

I think it's Leonard Bernstein. See, am I a bad Jew or just a dumb dumb? So listen, Nimesh Patel has a comedy special, the one I watched, and he's got a couple out there and some other footage. Uh, it's called, uh, it's called, uh, Lucky Lefty. I don't want to spoil it for you, but he's talking about the one ball he had left after having one removed because of testicular cancer. You can watch that on YouTube. His Fast and Loose Comedy Tour is now underway. Go to FindingNimesh.com for cities and tickets. This is me meeting and talking to Nimesh Patel. You can get anything you need with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats, but meatballs and mozzarella balls. Yes,

we can deliver that. Uber Eats. Get almost almost anything. Order now. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. Death is in our air. This year's most anticipated series, FX's Shogun, only on Disney+. We live and we die.

We control nothing beyond that. An epic saga based on the global best-selling novel by James Clavel. To show your true heart is to risk your life. When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive. FX's Shogun, a new original series streaming February 27th exclusively on Disney+. 18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. but yeah i don't try to figure out like i didn't i didn't see you like you're like i'm now old enough to realize that there's at least two generations after me that i missed entirely

so like i don't i never saw you in your nascent stage. No, I started in 2009, so. Oh no, I'm long gone. But like, I watch the special, and I watch the other things, some of them. But like, you're a Jersey guy? Jersey, born and bred, Parsippany, New Jersey. Parsippany. Yeah. My producer's wife comes from there.

Yeah, it's a great town. Is it? Ranked number 13th best place to live in like live by the New York Times, like 2010 or something. That's a long time ago. Yes. We've fallen off since. You're like one of those restaurants that never takes the sign out of the window. If my restaurant got a Michelin back before-

A Michelin? Yeah. How about just an A rating? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Zagat rated. Right, there you go. It's good. 2010?

Sure. Yeah. It's been through three owners, you know it's still fucking mean something that chef's dead but like yeah obviously but like like what was uh but your your parents didn't weren't born here my parents born and raised in uh gujarat india they came in uh 79 gujarat yes so it's a western state yeah i know like like i like i'm i don, I don't know about India enough. And I do this with most people that come from India. I'm left to only talk about bread and food. And naan and food. I'm happy to talk about that shit too.

But is this dosa territory or curry territory? It's neither really. It's more like a lot of vegetables. Yeah. A lot of rice dishes. So is it vegetarian? Yeah. I mean, Gujarat is a dry state.

It's where the prime minister's from. Oh, yeah? It's probably one of the most popular states in India. A dry state? Yeah, no alcohol. You can get it, but it's not legal necessarily. And what is the line with vegetarian versus non-vegetarian? That's still house to house depending on the religion?

Yeah, it's still house to house on religion. Like I grew up, my dad grew up eating chicken, but like beef and stuff was never in our house. But my mom is the daughter of a Brahmin priest, which is like the highest. If we're going to talk about the caste system, it's like the highest caste you could be. And so there was never any meat in that house. It was all purely vegetarian. A Brahmin priest. Yeah.

Which is like the, you were like, it's like above like doctor and all that shit. Oh yeah. You were like the holiest person you could be. Right. So you're the community leader in a way. And he was,

you know, he was, my grandpa was. You know that guy? My grandpa? Yeah. Yeah. He was,

he passed away in 2021. Okay. But he was, my grandpa was. You know that guy? My grandpa? Yeah. Yeah, he was, he passed away in 2021. Okay. But he was like the headmaster of his school, teacher of his school, like, and my grandma taught English to like, like, to like third graders, fourth graders. So they had like a huge community around them. They were like leaders in the community. Yeah. My grandpa was in the government from what I'm told.

We never, like, one of my regrets is never like fully asking him all about all that stuff. Like in my age when I could remember it. But did you, you were born here? Yeah, I was born in Jersey. You know, uh, they came over in the seventies. My, my, I think my dad came in 79 and my mom came in 81 or 82. What was it like? What was the reason for that? What do you think? Opportunity here. The opportunities, I guess, there in India for what they were doing was not,

were not as abound, plentiful. Yeah. And my grandpa came here first. Oh, he did? On my mom's side. The Brahmin guy, he couldn't leave.

No, the Brahmin guy came over here first. He did? He came here, I don't even recall. So how do you, like, are you that high up in the community and that important to a community, and you're just sort of like, I'm done?

I think it was a function of his brother came, and his brother, a bit more educated, got, like, a very good job in pharmaceuticals. All right. And so he was like, come over here, it's great. Yeah. So he's like, all right. Yeah, and so he's like, come over here. It's great. Yeah. So he's like, all right.

Yeah. And so he's like, all right, the whole family's going. And so like piecemeal, my mom's oldest brother went, or my mom's youngest brother went, and then my mom's older sister came. And why Parsippany, you think? Well, they ended up in Newark in, I guess, the late 70s, early 80s. It was heavy in Newark. It was heavy in Newark. I guess the late 70s, early 80s.

It was heavy in Newark. It was heavy in Newark. And the family lore is that one day my grandpa was in the elevator in his apartment complex. He got punched in the face and robbed. And it was like, all right, well, time to leave Newark. And then they literally. It's probably a common story. It was literally like, what is the widest place we can go?

And it was Indian flight instead of white flight. But they were like, okay, where's Parsippany? And they were like, okay, Parsippany is like the real estate agent showed them a nice house by the lake. Yeah. And they were like, it was within budget. The whole family moved. They're like, that's it. And they still have that house.

Really? Yeah. So there wasn't a big Indian community? No. I think we might have been some of the first Indians in Parsippany for sure. What about now? They're like, that's it. And they still have that house. Really? Yeah. So there wasn't a big Indian community? No, there wasn't. I think we might have been some of the first Indians in Parsippany for sure. What about now? It's Edison 2.0.

If you don't know Edison, New Jersey, it's fucking, it's- All Indian? Yeah, it's all Indian. It's now, I mean, Parsippany is- So you guys put the word out? I mean, that's how Indians ended up here in the world. Yeah. I'm doing a bit about it now, but I haven't figured it out yet. But, you know.

What's the angle? It's like, who was the first Patel in the States? It's like a biblical story. Yeah, because, you know, I've read this book called Life Behind the Lobby, which is a book about, you know, how Indian Americans ended up owning like 40% of the hotels and motels in this country. Yeah. And that's true. And also the Dunkin' Donuts. Yes.

And also the Dunkin' Donuts. Yeah. But the story remains the same. It's like, okay, it's an easy cash business to understand. Yeah.

And you can call up your family to work and stay at the place you're working at. Yeah. Save a bunch of money and then venture out on your own.

And it's literally that story like replicated against Dunkin' Donuts, against 7-Elevens, against hotels. Is Hudson News Indian? I know Hudson. I know why you would ask that. Because there's Indian guys everywhere, but I'm not sure what the origin story of that is. I imagine it's one cousin who got a job and was like,

yo, it's easy to get a job. Like, this is what you got. Fill out this paperwork. Just put your name, live at my address, and we got a new job for everybody. The same with taxis. It's the same everywhere. You know, it's like our origin story is very unique and very similar in that it's like, it's hard to imagine another group of people contacting their family and

causing like mass migration, but that's exactly what it is for everyone. I think. Well, I mean, voluntarily, I think that there was definitely an influx of certain types of communities and Jews were all sort of like, you know, I think maybe Europe's not for us. Something happened. Once you get out of the camp, you're like, maybe it's time to... Go somewhere where we might be a little less unwanted.

But it's sort of fascinating, though, that you can track the sort of, the family nature of it. Yeah, it is. It's a beautiful thing, but like the angle of the joke is like, the first Patel must have been a liar. Right? Because it's like, yeah, come to Jacksonville. It's awesome. Like, no.

We'll get you set up. It's going to be fantastic. A lonely liar. Yeah, exactly. We need a little more representation in Jacksonville. Come to fucking Topeka. But they did do that. They did.

I learned from a guy that there is an organization, which Jews coming over from Europe that literally helped them find homes spread out all over the country. Yeah. Just so it wouldn't happen again. Yep. They were like, we got to spread out. We got to diversify. Yeah.

Yeah, exactly. I mean, my favorite story of one of my friends told me is that her dad landed with like eight dollars in san francisco opened up the phone book and just called the first patel that he saw i swear to god and was he a patel yeah he was also a patel it's like and like that's a in the patel community that story is replicated a billion times right it's like that kind of bond of because back in the day when you were a Patel, you were coming from a specific part of India. And like they always ask you like, what's your ghan, which is what's your village? Like where are you from? And that enough was like, we have a shared experience together.

Yeah. We know what it's like. We can help each other out. Yeah. Let's at least try to make something of ourselves here. But a lot of the Patels, obviously they don't know each other. No. But what is of the Patels, obviously, they don't know each other. No. But what is the history of that name?

Well, Patel means landowner. Okay. So it's kind of like Smith, but it dictated what you had and where you were from. Originally. Originally. So there's no necessarily blood relationship between all the Patels. No, no, no, no, no. Unfortunately, unfortunately not,

because then I fucked a lot of cousins. Thank God. Did you marry a Patel that was already a Patel? No, no, no. My wife is from Connecticut. She was Jewish. Really? Yeah, yeah.

How's that going? It's great. We've been together for 10, married for three now. It was just like, sometimes I get flack from Indian people. Do you? Yeah, just like, oh, fucking sellout Indian guy married a white lady. It's like, well, when I started comedy, there weren't exactly Indian women flocking to comedy clubs. Yeah.

Like, oh, who's the new hot fucking Indian guy doing check spots? Yeah. No, you got to open for Russell Peters for that attention. Yeah, it was. Shout out, Russell. It was just like dating is such a function of proximity. Sure. And she was a waitress.

And that was before it was a function of your phone. Yes. So you got in under the wire. Yeah, I did. She was a waitress at the cellar? No, at a stand-up New York. Oh, really? Yeah, and I just bothered her.

Sure. For a long time. That's the comedian tactic. It's just like Costanza. Yeah, you bother them until they're a little sympathetic, and then you start complaining about the world. Exactly. And here we are.

It's basically my day every day. Do you have kids? No, no, no. Working on it. We'll see what happens oh yeah yeah with the one ball with the one ball the strong one you know the doctor told me after i lost it that you didn't want that ball anyway yeah that ball's juice was no good that was a bad ball yeah you'd be walking around with so the cancer ball was not a juice for uh uh maker no i mean it made juice it was

just bad you don't want you don't want the bad ball juice yeah bad ball juice you get a bad ball kid is that true no shit you just uh the doctor the way the doctor put it is like your sperm will be passing along dna that would be more inclined to have cancer because it comes from the cancerous ball exactly like, oh, that makes a lot of sense. I've known a couple people that had maybe one specifically. Belzer had a fake ball, Richard Belzer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm trying to think of other famous one-balled people. I think Hitler had one.

We got a lot in common, us and that guy. But before the ball cancer. So you got brothers and sisters then? I got a younger sister. She's 32, better than me in every single way. She's a lawyer. And then I got 16 first cousins. Holy shit.

Yeah. On what side? Both sides? I got five. I got six on my mom's side and 10 on my dad's side. So all their siblings are here and all their kids are here. We all grew up within, say for one pair of siblings, all grew up within like 30 minutes of each other.

That's good though. It's the greatest way to grow up. To have a relationship with your whole family. Yeah, I mean, we're all still on group chats. We're still bothering each other. Really? We're still going out. Well, yeah, I mean, you talk about that in the special,

which I should say the name of, Lucky Lefty or How I Lost My Right Nut and All I Got Was This Stupid Special. Yes, thank you. The whole thing must be said. But I mean, I'm sort of fascinated by it all because I think a lot of immigrant communities were like that because I grew up in New Jersey. Whereabouts?

Both my parents were from, I didn't grow up there, but my parents did. Both of my parents are from Jersey. My dad's from Jersey City. My mom's from Pompton Lakes. Oh, Pompton Lakes, not too far yeah and so their parents were there and all my aunt and uncle and cousins were all over and when i was a little kid before my parents ran away to new mexico or wherever the hell we ended up you know first alaska you know it was everyone was at my grandma's house so it's just the way it was i think i i right now i love i look at that as like the perfect way to grow up because the way my

family is going it's like uh you know everyone's having kids i'm like i want to make sure that i have a kid now so that my family my kid can participate in that in that large way i grew up but then i also look at like i need chaos chaos yeah because that's how i grew up in chaos but but not not uh toxic chaos no no but just like like kids everywhere kids everywhere noise people always like stimulated like i i and it's a huge problem not a huge problem but a problem nonetheless of like yeah i do not know how to be bored yeah it's such a problem if i got nothing to do i'm doing a million things exactly and i'm just like why that why do i feel like this it's such a problem if i got nothing to do i'm doing a million things exactly and i'm just like why that why do i feel like this it's because like at any given moment me

or three of my cousins were doing some stupid shit like hitting a bee's nest or playing basketball yeah it's all kind of dumb shit well for me like i don't even know like i and it's a weird thing uh about about being a comic is that we do you know know, for whatever reason we got into the life, the life is the life. And we, you know, we do have a lot of time. Yeah. Like I've been talking about on stage where I'm like, you know, I don't know what makes me happy.

I don't know what my hobbies are, but I think food shopping might be one. Yeah. Because I'll go to three or four supermarkets just because I fucking want to buy shit at different places. I don't know, man. It's like, I can't.

The point I was trying to make is when you're self-employed, no matter what you do, you kind of consider it work. Yes. Right. Yeah. As long as you frame it that way,

like I did something today. Well, there's that, but also like, as long as you got your pen and you're out, am I taking my notes on my Evernote? Let me tell you, I did something.

Yeah, sure. Do you think, do you like, do you think like that? Do you have that work ethic that you, you need to have in place in order to justify your life? I have been trying to get better at enjoying my free time and not making it about getting something out of it.

Yeah. How are you doing with that? Bad. But then I was talking to a friend of mine, and he reads a lot about productivity and stuff. Yeah. It's like the most elite people derive value from every single thing that they do. Yeah. So.

Elite? Yeah, like the Jordans and the Bezoses of the world. They derive what? Value out of every single thing that they do. But what's value mean? So like, okay, today I'm going to read this book. Yeah. And I'm going to read the book and

it's going to help me, it's freeing up my brain to do some writing stuff, but also whatever I'm getting from reading the book. The book about the Patels. Yes, exactly. Whatever it is. No, of course. Well, that's the thing. But like those guys like Bezos, like, you know, whatever the fuck skill set he had in place. Yeah.

When you talk about value relationship to that guy, he's thinking about like, oh, if I add this button, you know, I can make another half a billion dollars. Yeah, sure. Yeah. A Bezos bad example, but like the people who are, uh, uh, maybe the unsung heroes of the productivity world, people who are just very good at what they do. They don't feel bad if they're not doing something that is not directly related to the work

because they think that the thing that they're doing is helping them in some way. Right, it's fulfilling something. Yes. But with us, that's, of course, because all we're doing is waiting for something to talk about. Yeah, I need something to happen to me at all times. Right, but what's your process?

I mean, I am a talker so i write on stage are you like an intel guy are you a talk guy i'm uh i'm a both guy uh more more so writing so you write jokes i'll be on my uh ipad just trying to crack shit out yeah like oh okay this is funny like well I'll write down premises and ideas and things I think. I'll write a full joke out. Oh, you do? Because I've always done better doing that way. When I do the talking method, like, I'll find a tag or I'll find. Space it.

Yeah, but I cannot. If I write it, like, I'm better at iterating so many times. And that's really the process, right? It's just iteration, iteration, iteration. Well, yeah, it's repetition, iteration, right. Yeah. And I guess like, you know, for me, it's just, it kind of renders itself down eventually.

Like the stuff that, you know, is, and I'm doing long form shit, you know, and I'm looking for things to come back around and whatnot. But ultimately I got to explore on stage because I don't, like if I have to sit and write a premise and then go like, how am I going to tag this?

Like, I don't know. But if I'm on stage and I bring up the premise, which is funny enough on its own, and I just put myself in the position where I have to be funny, then the tags get delivered magically. That's interesting how your brain works like that. You got to deliver on this, or you're going to feel bad at the end of it. Right. Like I know I'm funny. So that thing, I'm not afraid. And I'll put it out there. And a lot of things, I'll come up to the end of the funny premise, which is kind of funny enough, and the tag won't be delivered,

and I'm just sitting there like a fucking idiot. But whatever, I have faith it'll come eventually. That's like I've operated that way. Yeah. But my process, since I shifted it to be like, okay, let me put it on paper. This is the premise, or this is the punchline. Yeah.

Like, how can I expand? Because my, the skill I'm trying to work on now is trying to build out slightly longer things. Yeah. Or like just longer jokes. We did that with the special. I mean, because there is a through line. Yes, for sure.

So you had this through line. You had testicular cancer. So you're like, that's a setup. Yes. And then. Yes. Right? The setup of all setups, yes. So, you know, eventually you're like, that's a setup. Yes. And then. Yes. Right? The setup of all setups, yes.

So you know eventually you're going to get a new ball. And there's, like, you know, it's a deep well. You know, anytime you're talking about balls clinically or any other way. Yeah. You're going to get jokes. There's a lot, yeah. Yeah. But so, but then you're on the sides of it.

You're able to do all the other stuff that you're thinking about. And then just sort of return back to the through line. This is, I mean, I thought a lot about the special. Yeah. Like, not like in afterwards, but like while it was being crafted, there was a lot of. Right. Like, how the fuck do I want to present this in a way that. That isn't a one person show.

That isn't a one man show. Yeah. That isn't just me doing dick and ball jokes for 45 minutes. Yeah. And also trying to turn on its head the idea that I've learned anything. Yeah. You know, because I. From the experience of cancer.

From the experience. And like, to me, that was the biggest joke. Was that like, you know, how did it change my life? It did not. Zero change. So you wanted to do, you wanted to have a narrative arc where the main character doesn't change at all. Exactly. But the worst possible thing that could happen happened.

Yet you caught in it in enough time to where you were able to sort of like just get through it without changing. Cancer. Give me something easy. I mean, something difficult. Yeah, yeah. easy i mean that's difficult yeah yeah and so like that that took so long for me to get to as a um a punchline right because you had the stuff evolving you had the jokes but you didn't like there's a balance because you knew that i wish you could see what you're doing with your hand yeah because you i'm holding balls yes but there a balance, but you knew the ball stuff was going to,

whether it was dick and ball jokes or not, they were elevated by the fact that they were cancer balls. Yes, exactly. So it's not as crass as it could be. Right. But you wanted to have this core sense of like, the funniest part of this is like,

I'm the same guy and I'm not even exactly, you know, like maybe I changed a little in that it reinforced my confidence. Like I can fucking do anything. Watch me, watch me do 45 minutes on my balls. No problem. Next comedic challenge, please. And that was really, that really kind of, uh, asked a lot of my process. Yeah. Because the first special, thank you, China.

It was like the, I was cobbling it together as I was on the road. And it was observational. It was observational on some personal. Yeah. Some political. And that was just the function of the fact that I was thrown into the fire. That is having club dates on my calendar,

uh, without having done an hour for more than like 12 times. You know what I mean? Oh, so that, okay. So that's like the baptism through fire. By fire, yeah. But luckily I knew how to structure a set. Yeah. And I had enough material where I could structure a set.

And that like helped me be like, okay, this is a long form thing. I mean, a long set. Here are the jokes I want to do. How do i tie them together yeah right a little easier and then when this when i came off road uh in january 2022 i had nothing right yeah i was like okay i got and you know i mean after you did the first special after the first yeah yeah that's where i'm at yeah i had nothing yeah and uh Thank God you got cancer. That's really it, man. That's really the truth.

It's like, thank God I had cancer. You're reading books. You're listening to your friend talking about productive people. And you're like, fuck, what am I going to do? I got no bits. My agents got me on the road for another fucking six months to a year. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the cardinal sin is not to repeat.

Exactly. To the audiences that already saw it. I'm going back to a lot of same places. Yeah. Columbus is going to remember what I talked about. That's right. And at this point, though, do you have, are you pulling the Indian communities everywhere you go? No, that's the thing. You know, it's like a very interesting, for better or for worse, Indian people are usually late to comedy.

Really? It's like. Usually it's such a community bonding event when they know one of their own i've offended a lot of indian people for sure oh yeah uh in my house oh well there was a religious group that i shat on which one the baps oh yeah it's a it's a hindu sect yeah that i made fun of yeah for some shit i read in the news yeah and that spread like like that in india no in the states. Yeah. And that spread like that. In India?

No, in the States. Because who's that guy I just talked to that got in big trouble? Vir Das? Yeah, Vir Das I talked to. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But he's an interesting guy because he was like this movie star.

Yeah, I mean, he's crazy. Yeah. That guy's nuts. His career is fucking bananas. Yeah. But for me, like, but also not just that. Like, i don't want to say i was canceled be a by proxy by the baps community or anything like that it was more it's more just

my distribution method of tiktok and instagram and all that it it just hits people for i don't know the algorithm it just hits people and that happened some of them don't happen. A lot of them aren't Indian. And a lot of it's also a function of the fact that a lot of my material isn't focused on how I grew up or specific Indian stuff. Right. It's coming, though. It's coming for sure. I got nothing else to talk about. I can feel it, man.

The Patel book. Oh, yeah. That's by design. Here comes the big Indian show. But it's also like I don't mind the slow burn. Yeah. You know, of like let me demonstrate to myself, to the comedy fans, and to the comedy buyers that this isn't just a novelty actor. He's not just talking to his own people. Right.

I feel like my comedy can relate to everybody. No, I feel like, yeah, you've got that, you know, you've got the chops of a guy that came up in New York, you know, in the cellar specifically. Because, you know, you're surrounded by, you know, these guys, these old timers from my generation. I mean, you can't avoid the impact of a tell in New York. No. Like, you know, there's, I think back in the day, there were dudes that would just outright do them basically. But I think there's a whole generation of you guys

and maybe the guys a little older than you that sort of integrated his discipline. But, you know, like Norman and Morel and guys who, like, clearly are influenced by the Atell craft. But, like, I think more than anybody else, you know, his style and his disposition, it's a constant when you're coming up there. It's like you kind of love, you look forward to when Dave is right after you. Because you know he's lurking, smoking a cigarette, talking shit about something in the hallway.

And he's always going to want to win. Yes. So it's just like every day he's churning out these new jokes. You can't stop watching the guy. No. Especially when he's competitive. Yep. Like, if he's wasting time, it's funny.

But, like, if he feels like he's got to fucking do it, you're like, oh, my God. You're fucked. It's such a sight to see. It is. I think there was a phase. I don't want to say a phase. But there were a few times I saw him with a flutophone on stage. He was doing this whole flutophone thing, and I was just like,

he must be bored. He must be like, man, I'm too good at this fucking shit. Well, you do get that feeling because he's such an amazing joke craftsman that sometimes he has to distract himself. I remember years ago, there was this... That's what it is. Yeah, because you know he can do it with his back turned

if he wanted to. And he has. I remember there's a period there where he thought he needed to do a character, so he was doing some kind of gym instructor. I don't remember what the fuck it was, but it was just a tell with his conceit that didn't really stick. It's so fun to watch him. But, yeah, like that, him having him watch. Yeah, I hated it.

I hate it, but I also feel like, okay, if Dave tells me I'm a funny joke writer, then I'm fucking made. Did he? Yes. Oh, good. Yes, he learned a very good joke. I'm like, thank you, Dave. When I was starting out there, I used to make him leave the room. I'm like, look, I have to figure out how to talk to regular people.

I can't worry about you sitting there. Right. Good one, Mark. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Mark. I love Dave. But yeah, like that. So with the special and with the process of it all, I'm very conscious of who I'm talking to. And I'm very encouraged by the fact now more Indian people are coming out.

But that first run, that 2021-2022 run, it was, and even the 2022-2023 run, this run, like still not like overwhelmingly Indian, which is great because that means for me there's a huge untapped market of people that will be able to relate to my show. But it seemed on this new one, the Lucky Lefty, there were a good, must have been about a third of the room, right?

Yeah, I mean, that's the thing. It's like in the bigger cities where it is a large Indian population, by just a function of the fact there's more Indians in the town, there will be a lot of Indian people. But it gives you an opportunity to find, like, I really appreciate that, this sort of like, I wouldn't say it's pandering, but community identification. Yeah, for sure. Because, I mean, that was part of early comedy. I mean, the Jews, you know, they got to figure it out how to, you know, be accepted as normal people. And even the Italians, I mean, you listen to Pat Cooper, like these early records where he's like literally getting on stage. It's like, who's doing the Sunday sauce?

Like, what the fuck is happening but it was a way of defining the community within america it's important and it still happens it it is important and it's uh to me like growing up in parsippany yeah when i was of age when i was a teenager, being Indian was not abnormal. Right. So it was never in my head to be like, let me talk about Indian stuff. Right. Because it never felt other. Really?

You never felt other? No. I mean, I felt other in the sense that I didn't feel like these Indian kids because my biological parents divorced. So that was like another thing for me. Oh, really? Yeah. How old were you? I was two.

Oh, really? Yeah. I don't know the guy your dad my biological father yeah really yeah never met him so who'd you grow up with as a dad my dad oh my mom remarried when i was four i guess oh wow and i just found out like why they got divorced too no he was not yeah yeah oh my dad is patel my father was not yeah he was a uh a brahmin guy yeah so my mom married like outside of her caste quote unquote yeah which like had its own set of uh i thought her her dad was brahmin no yes her dad was brahmin right my my dad is not my biological father is right okay my dad is not so my biological parents were arranged so she was divorced divorced and, oh, it was arranged in India? Yeah, it was arranged. Like, it's a crazy story.

She was dating the man that she's married to now, my dad. Yeah. And she had to go to India for her sister's wedding. Okay, so they're already in the States. Yeah, so her older sister's wedding. Right. She gets there, and unbeknownst to her my grandpa has arranged for her to meet and marry this other guy uh-huh my father yeah biological biological

father yeah and so they get she's like oh okay like you don't you can't be like no you can't yeah it was just not one of those so she married married him. Yeah. And then when she came back to the States, it was like, sorry, Sanjay, like I got to see this thing out. And it didn't pan out. Yeah. So did that guy come to the States? Yeah. Oh. Came to the States.

They moved to, I forget which town. Yeah. They moved to the States. I tried to make it work. Had me. Yeah. Was not working out. Divorced.

Yeah. And my mom started seeing my Sanjay again my dad yeah and he like hang he hung out he hung out you'll be back you know that's crazy and so like that was how I felt other and my dad had a liquor store you know like and that was never Patel did yeah Patel did you don't know the other guy i don't know the other guy and he's still in the states yeah wild wild story uh why don't you know the guy never reached out and i never reached out yeah and i think like dude this is the show the the longest the show this is the long reach out no i can't i refuse uh i don't think i i don't think i have it in me to be like

because i think about a lot like if i if and when i become a dad okay i cannot fathom a scenario where i'm not around regardless of what happens with me and my wife like i can't like and it scares me this first time i've articulated it that like what if the one of the things that i have a fear about having kids is like what if i am the same and i don't have that uh capacity for love like you know what I mean? Like your biological dad. Exactly. Which is crazy to me to think about.

But like that is fucking, that's what is part of what keeps me from being like, no, fuck that. I'm not going to reach out. That's crazy. But your self-awareness around it implies that that's not the case, number one. And number two,

I don't know that you need to frame that as genetic genetic yeah i don't know it's probably not but it's uh i mean i think it's certainly not but yeah because you were young enough and and clearly the patel dad gave you the love right yes yes yes but that's also like a lot of it is when i was younger, and by younger, I mean like 10 years ago, when I first had a conversation with a friend of mine about this, it was just like part of me is fearful that if I reach out to a father that it implies that I'm not happy with how I was brought up. And I never want that to be the case either. Yeah, I thought you were going to say that it would somehow infect me. There we go. Yeah, as soon as you shake his hand, you're like, oh no, it's in me.

Fuck kids. Fuck my wife. I'm going to live in an apartment by myself. No, it's just that. But you don't know nothing about the guy. No, I mean, I know he was an engineer and I know some other stuff. It's probably some religious shit.

Who knows? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it's more than I want to get into now. Sure. But all that to say, like, I always felt other in that sense. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I never felt other in the sense like, oh, we're in this fucking 30 of us, 40 of us in my high school class, you know? Sure.

There's fucking 30 of us, 40 of us in my high school class. Sure. So you were a community, and you never felt some weird tension, like you were intruders. Exactly. Or like, what are they doing here? Yeah, I mean, it was just like, me, I'm sure some of us got made fun of,

and some of us experienced the hacky kind of racism that you experience when you're a teenager. Low-key Jersey racism. Low-keykey like i remember when 9-11 happened when 9-11 happened i remember it distinctly the the the high school my high school bully at the time uh just like pushed me it was like you're fucking people man i was like what what are you talking about my people we're all here you You know, it was just like that kind of bullshit happened, but I never, we never felt other otherwise because it was,

like I said, 40 in my high school class. Like it's hard to be like, oh yeah, it's so difficult. The struggle. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Sure. We had some idiosyncrasies that like our food was different. Yeah. And, uh, on Saturdays and Sundays we would go party with only other Indian people and we would have like religious events.

But I'm sure the Irish and the Jews had their own shit popping off too. We just didn't know about it. Yeah, yeah. What religion? Hinduism. Yeah, yeah. But ultimately,

your parents were supportive all the way through? Comedy-wise? Yeah. Well, I went to NYU. uh you know i wanted to be a doctor probably until my sophomore year of college you know like i they they wanted me to be a doctor you're doing pre-med i was pre-med biology classes pre-med finance i you know chemistry biology all that you're doing well my freshman year i had a 4.0. Yeah. Sophomore year, I think, like, probably, like, a 3.8, 3.7. Yeah.

But junior year, I got a C plus in organic chemistry, and I was also going through my relationship, like, the relationship the girl I was with at the time had a lot of impact on my psyche. Oh, yeah? And I was just like. Like, what do you mean? Like, we were always on and off.

Yeah, yeah. And it always fucking bothered me. So there's the chaos. Yeah, there's chaos with that. And so I wasn't the best student at the time. Yeah. And so I got a C or C plus in organic chemistry, and I realized it might have been just the malaise

of all of it. I was like, man, fuck this pre-med shit. And I dropped it then. Stayed in school, though. Yeah, and stayed in school though yeah i stayed in school i still had a finance major to get um but that dropping that pre-med when i told my mom you would have thought i died like it was when i called her yeah it was like fucking what the like a scream mind you i'm in the apartment that they're paying for yeah uh on the cell phone the plan that they pay for yeah i'm telling cell phone, the plan that they pay for.

I'm telling them that all the money they just spent for me to go to this fucking school is for nothing, effectively. That dream is dead for my mom of calling her son a doctor. But in the special, you make it pretty clear that there's plenty of Dr. Patels. Yes, there's plenty of us. I got plenty of cousins I could call right now. And it's about time we branch out into other. Yes, there's plenty of us. I got plenty of cousins I could call right now. Yeah. And it's about time we branch out into the arts. Into the arts. But so I graduated in 08 with a finance degree, which was like the funniest thing you could do at the time.

Like I was, I had this huge ego shock, right? Because when I went to NYU, I graduated, you know, near the top of my class in high school. And I went to NYU thinking i graduated you know near the top of my class in high school um and i went to nyu thinking i'm hot shit yeah and like i'm getting good grades i got a hot ass girl yeah uh i'm cool as fuck i can drink yeah fast forward four years later all my peers are going to med school or are finance guys and finance jobs and i'm doing neither of those things now i got this huge shock to my ego like i thought i was a shit and yeah i'm nothing and you're you're mostly responsible for it and i'm it's all my fault yeah i dropped pre-med i was dumb i was chasing pussy and that didn't pan out either yeah and for like a year, I was like, I don't want to say depressed in hindsight, but like I was just really, and I never articulated it to myself at the time, but just like mad at myself. Right.

And disappointed in myself. Yeah. Like I had accomplished nothing. Yeah. You know, my friends, like my older friends, my cousin's older friends would call me the future. Like, oh, you're the future, man. Yeah. You're like, it's not good. It's not good, man.

I need an internship or something. Can I get a $10 an hour job, something, please? And so for like a year, I was unemployed and underemployed. And I thought, you know, for a while, I had some moments of clarity. I was like, what do I like doing? I like writing. And I never had stage fright.

So I took the shitty writing class at NYU. It was sappy talking about, you know, my dad coming home drinking, that kind of shit from his liquor store and how that impacted me. And I was like, none of this shit is funny. Yeah, he was getting high on his own supply. A hundred percent. You know, like, but that's the thing. I never knew about the trauma he was going through.

What was he going through? I mean, he's been shot at and like that will have a huge impact on your psyche. Even if you deny that it does. Yeah. You know. At the liquor store? At the liquor store. You know, like it was in Irvington, New Jersey at the time, which is like a terrible fucking

neighborhood. Yeah. Yeah. You talk about that a bit on the special. Yeah. Were you at the store a lot? No, no, we were, I was not allowed to go there. So how did he end up in that business?

Well, when he was 17, when he came over, his older brother had a store or was working at a store and said, hey, why don't you come work at the store with me? A liquor store. Yeah, a liquor store. Yeah. And the model is just work there, live in a tiny apartment with your entire family, save up enough money to then eventually maybe you and your brother and someone else can go in on a store together. And then you build enough equity, get your own store and hope that pans out, you become a trillionaire.

He didn't. It was just like a one store guy, which is a good middle class income. Still got it? The Irvington one is gone. Yeah. That was, I think, after a man came in and put a gun to his head for 400 bucks. He was like, okay, that's enough. I cannot do this.

But that was, if I correlate it, the decline in the business and that traumatic experience is directly related to his drinking and his self-medicating for dealing with that kind of shit you know is he sober now yeah i mean he wasn't he's not an alcoholic right he was he was definitely drinking more than he traumatized yeah traumatized yeah and yeah he's definitely cut out alcohol or cut down definitely because for health reasons yeah wow and uh but at the time when that was going on i was so also going through my own trauma of like obviously not being shot at but like having this ego get destroyed yeah and now i'm like oh what the fuck am i gonna do this writing shit is corny yeah i like laughing and

i'm good at talking in front of people uh i used to be the the roast master at our lunch table yeah uh just shitting on fucking seniors when I was a freshman. Sure. So I was like, I could probably do this. Stand-up. Stand-up. But you weren't going to stand-up shows or anything? No, I never.

The only live comedy I'd seen at that point, the first special I ever saw was probably like the Dana Carvey Chopping Broccoli, that one. Yeah. And that was just on Comedy Central forever ago. I remember watching Chris Roxberger and Blacker and quoting it in high school. And then 2004,

Russell Peters' YouTube special leaked. And my only other Indian kid on my floor at NYU brought me into his dorm room. He was like, yo, we got to watch this. Yeah. And that was like the first like subconscious planting of any people can do standup. Yeah.

The first live standup I ever saw was at the Cellar, 2004. Yeah. This was before the Cellar is what it is today in terms of always sold out. Yeah, it was back when I was around. It was. Yeah. It was 2004.

I was definitely around, yeah. Winter 2004, I get barked in. It was. Yeah. It was 2004. I was definitely around. Yeah. Winter 2004. I got barked in and this is right when Chappelle's show was either off the air or like Chappelle was just like

having his enigma moment. Yeah. Like Dave Chappelle's on stage. Yeah. Dave Chappelle's on a fucking stage right now. Get out of here. Yeah.

Why would he be here? Not only is he on stage but he's on for two hours. And it's 20 bucks. Yeah. And you can go watch it right now yeah there's 12 people in the room go in got my backpack got this beard and dave's like uh sir we have to check your bag your skin's a little too olive i'm like what dude that's crazy sat down for like 20 minutes

like i gotta go study yeah uh and that was my first live experience ever and 2009, and like comedy was never a thing that I was like looking at or watching or anything like that. I'd seen Human Giant, Aziz's show. I was like, oh, that's cool. An Indian guy's doing some shit. Over at UCB? No, I'd seen the sketch show he did on MTV. Yeah, yeah.

But I didn't, like stand-up comedy in 2008 or 9 in my world was not the rockstar shit it is today. Sure. It was just a, like a still off the beaten path arts thing. Yeah. And so in 2009 I was like, okay, well where can I go to stand up?

And I just Googled it or whatever Yahoo searched it. And, uh, stress factory in New Brunswick, New Jersey, Vinnie, Vinnie Brand. Yeah.

And he had that bringer mic on Wednesdays, August 19th, 2009. Brought myself and- Yeah, and a bunch of Patels. And a bunch of Patels, my 16 first cousins and their friends, and just went up and did three terrible minutes. Yeah. I thought it was five. Yeah.

Did well. It's terrible in the sense of what was written and all that bullshit. Yeah. I thought it was five. Yeah. Did well. It's terrible in the sense what was written and all that bullshit. Yeah. Like, my performance was awful, all that, but, like, it worked.

Yeah. And I was like, got laughs. Yes. Yeah. And I was like, how hard could this be? And so,

that was the bug, so to speak. So, did you go back and do Brand's Room a lot? No, I did Vinny's Room quite often because I didn't get a job in New York until probably mid-2010. Yeah. But I discovered badslava.com, which has the list of all the open mics. Oh, really?

Yeah. And so that was a key resource. And I was like, oh, there's so many in New York City. I'll just take the bus to New York. And I just did that almost every day for a year and a half. Open mics. Open mics. Wherever.

Wherever. Anywhere that would have me. Poetry open mics. I think at one point I was like, let me see how many I can do in a day. Recorded that. It was like a Tuesday. I think I did 11. Really? Yeah. I mean, I asked all the let me see how many I can do in a day. Recorded that. It was like a Tuesday. I think I did 11. Really?

Yeah. I mean, I asked all the spots, I'm doing this thing. Can I try to do 11? Some of them were like at 5 in the afternoon, right? Yes, exactly. So that's how you could get them in. You could do the 5 o'clock. You could do the 5.30.

Do the 6 o'clock. Put your name down. Everyone at the host would be accommodating. Yeah. It wasn't I was brand new. I was probably like a year in at that point when I tried that shit. But that was just, that's how I built these chops up.

Yeah. Before you got the big opportunity to work a real club. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think the first club was Stand Up New York. I got check spots there thanks to my friend Jared Freed. Yeah.

Shout out Jared, but yeah. So how long before you decided to audition at the Cellar the Cellar audition came about because I got uh the Chris Rock writing job it was you know when what did you write for the Oscars the 2016 Oscars when he hosted you know it was so you were you were around and you were a known guy. I don't think I was known. It was just I ran this show. Maybe I was known in the comedy community, but not in this world. Enough for him to know you were a writer.

No, it was just I used to run a show with Che, Michael Che, and our friend Mike Denny. So Che's of your generation. Che's my closest friend in comedy. And we started probably like two or three months out. He started like three months after me yeah um but we ran a show together with our friend mike denny and uh in 2015 chris ended up at that show and i did well enough that he was like you're really funny i was like you're fucking chris rock and uh and uh like three months later he got the oscars gig so i was like you want to write i. I was like, sure. And then so that was my first writing job.

And I think like people knew that I got that job. Yeah. And then one day I was walking down the street and I saw a female comic friend of ours. And she was like, hey, you want to audition at the cell? I was like, who would say no to that? Yeah. Send me a tape. I was like, sure.

And I sent her a tape, got the audition in June of 2016. And then that was it. And that was passed at the cellar. Esty passed you? Esty passed you. She was like, very funny. I was like sure and i sent her a tape got the audition in uh june of 2016 and then that was it and that was passed at the cellar esty passed esty passed you she's like very funny i was like yes yeah can i sit at the table yes exactly no next week you send your avails then you can come sit at the table i was like i was like oh i remember that okay i'll just go sit at one of these other tables yep yep i'll just wait my time yeah go. Go back. How do I send the bills again? So that's not even that long ago. No, I'm fucking, it feels like yesterday.

Yeah. But then I go to the cellar now, I'm just like, who the fuck are these people? Yeah. You know? Yeah. I feel like an old guy, but it's like. Oh, really? Already?

I mean, because the staff is so new. The staff turnover. Pandemic hit, and a lot of staff is so new, like, you know, the staff turnovers, like, pandemic hit and, like, a lot of staff, like, bounced a bunch of places. That's weird. When I was going there, the staff was, there was always a couple of stalwarts that were always there. Yeah, no, I mean, I'm not sure if you know Val or Alicia, some of the managers still there. Jose. But a lot of people have changed and left since I was there, since I started there.

Yeah. How's Esty doing? Great. I haven't spoken to her or seen her in a few months, actually. Yeah. Because road stuff, since I started there. Yeah. How's Esty doing? Great. I haven't spoken to her or seen her in a few months, actually. Yeah. Because road stuff, I haven't been.

Yeah. Like, if I'm off the road in New York, like, I don't even, comedy's just all out of my brain. Yeah. Where do you work here?

You work in the store? No, I can work the store. I've done the improv. I love the store. It's the best. The OR is great. It's the best.

It's so much fun. It's like, that's my home club and, you know, like, it's the only place I'll work. And I'll just go there because I can get the time in. Yeah. You know, I just, I do, it's like a gym.

I'll work out, do new shit. And then like I'll go to Dynasty and do a residency for a month. I just did it last night. Uh-huh. And just work out the hour. I did like an hour and a half last night. That's great. About an hour of it was salvageable.

A half hour of it was just uncomfortable for everybody. What's your process in terms of I'm going to put the new right here and I'm going to do the— Well, I mean, like you, I had that special drop a few months ago from Bleak. You shot it at Town Hall. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so now it's just the way my brain works. Now that material is dead to me.

Yeah. So now it's just the way my brain works. Now that material is dead to me. Yeah. But I did have, the way I do it, like two weeks before I shoot a special, I'm usually doing like an hour and a half. So I got to drop a half.

Yeah, yeah. And in retrospect, I realized, well, that's the best way to do it because then I find the through lines, I get out the redundancy, and I do that within the week before I have to tape. So that sort of makes everything fresh again. Yeah, it's interesting. Because you're pulling shit out and you're moving shit around

and it kind of gets your brain into that present trip. And, you know, not unlike you, it seems, I leave room for improvising. I don't mind that. I'm not afraid of it. You know, I know how to do crowd work. I've been, you know, I been struggling, at least with the first Thank You China special and the Lucky Lefty special. What I don't like about special crafting is kind of the tightness of it. Well, yeah, well, that's a way around it.

That's the way I do it. It's like because I know I got to get it down to 65 minutes because it was HBO. I don't have the confidence with my following to just dump a YouTube special. So I like being, you know, sponsored. And it was a real honor for me, the HBO thing. But I know, you know, I'm going to have to get it down. Yeah. But the last three specials, like, that's just the way I did it.

And then things happen that are new. And, you know, I don't, I guess I've been doing this most of my life. That's crazy. It is crazy. So I can do the thing where I like to have callbacks. I like to have a through line. And in the middle of that special, I was talking about heavy shit. And I had that not unlike with the cancer is that you know that you've got a sad thing there, but you lived through it. So you got to balance like the sadness is, or the,

the tragedy of it or, or the, the, you know, the, the heaviness of it. That's, that's a given.

Yeah. So then you got to find this weird balance, right. You know, uh, but, but the, the,

I find that the reason I do that is I'm addicted to not knowing. And I'm addicted to writing on stage. An adrenaline junkie. Kind of. Not really. Because I don't, like the laughs, it's not, I like getting laughs. Yeah. But I like discovery more.

Like if they can come together where I'm surprised and they're surprised, that's the best for me. Yeah. You give yourself a little pat on the back. Yeah. You're just sort of like wow like make note you know so that's just the way you know i've grown to do it you know and right now that the risk of it is as opposed to being out on the road and just sticking shit in the middle uh like i've got i'm working a small room my fans know what i'm doing yeah there's only 150 people

there and they kind of like they're willing to go along with it so i just risk failing know what i'm doing yeah there's only 150 people there and they kind of like they're willing to go along with it so i just risk failing yeah and i'm not afraid to fail uh you know it's not going to take the wind out of my sails but there's going to be awkward moments and and that's all right fuck it yeah that's just the way i process it i uh i envy that that fear i don't i don't really have a fear of failing. I think it's more just like a lot of times it's a fan that's come to the show. All right. And then you can disappoint people.

And then it's like, they had brought someone who was like, you got to see this guy. And I'm like, well, I got notes and you didn't pay enough for me to be flawless. So. Yeah. But if they're real fans, they should enjoy the process. But that's the thing. It's like for at least my generation of comic,

it feels like we're introducing a lot of people to comedy for the first time. TikTok is how I made this stand-up career happen for myself. Or at least accelerated the rate at which I'm doing shows and stuff. It's a lot of first people's

ever experience. And do you post most, are you a crowd work clip guy? Yeah, it's like, I mean, I've posted both. I've posted, like I've chopped up the specials and put them out

and I've also, the way I was able to hit the road was putting out, I think a lot of people have come to know that i've done a lot of crowd work stuff on tiktok and stuff but before i had crowd work i had three four years of seller material yeah because a seller was ahead of its time is ahead of its time in the sense of like having a camera hd camera ready to go yeah and filming sets and like oh i want that set and then when pandemic happened i put my first hour out jokes

for quarantine which is something i'd shopped hbo in 2019 and they said no yeah it's like well i i did all this let me just put it out there pandemic happened that shit took off i was like oh shit i should probably feed this machine some more yeah and. And I had a bunch of material. Yeah. So I started feeding the algorithm. My wife was like, you should get on TikTok. She worked in social media at the time. And I didn't listen. And then three months later,

one of my friends who had some success on TikTok, you should get on TikTok. Yeah. And I was like, okay, sure. That's usually how it is with wives and listening. And once I did that i started seeing a lot of traction on just my material once the material ran out uh i was like okay well i got all this crowd work shit too so i'm putting that out yeah and i can't recall which clip it was

exactly or what exactly did it but at some point it became very apparent that tiktok was getting me the most views i'd ever had on anything. Yeah. The stuff that did the best was the crowd stuff. Yeah. Because it was so novel to a lot of people for whatever reason. And also it's in the moment. Yeah.

I know how to do crowd work and I can improvise, but I don't lean on it because from my school of thought, you got to be careful with crowd work because you're going to have to follow it eventually with your own shit. Yes. But I come from the crowd work school of Patrice. Yeah. Where it's make them think you're talking to them. Right. But you're really just doing material that you think is going to work. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Right, sure. And I think what cemented it in my brain, I saw Kumail at Comics in New York. I'm not sure if you remember Comics. Yeah, they paid you way too much money. It was too high scale and no one went. But it was a great facility. Yeah, 14th and 9th. So you saw Nanjiani when he was doing it.

I saw Kumail there and I remember he said something about, someone like interrupted him. And he said, sorry if you think any of this is spontaneous. And that like really stuck with me because it was kind of pulling the, what's it called? The curtain away from the magic. It's like revealing the magic trick. And so like when I put stuff out that seems like crowd work is usually just me getting into a bit sure and that just yields something fucking ridiculous because again people it's their first time experiencing comedy yeah and so getting back to the fear of failing

i have a fear of like okay like this is someone's first comedy show. I can't let them think it's only crowd work. I can't let them think it's only me bombing with some stuff I'd never done before. But you can bounce back from that with crowd work. As soon as the thing shits the bed, there's your crowd work. Unless the crowd work shits the bed. Sure. Well, then you're in a bad room.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now I got to change. So what was this, like, you know, I talk a lot about this sort of this, the tribalization of comedy and anti-woke hackness. Because I identify it as hackney. I think it's the new hack. Is that, you know, someone who labels themselves anti-woke or I'm going to get canceled. Right.

That, you know, they're really fighting for the right to talk about the same three things in a different way than any other ones. Yes. But there is this idea of things you can and can't say. But I watched that event you performed at at Columbia where you were stopped 20 minutes into an hour set or whatever by the students that were running it Where you were stopped, you know, 20 minutes into an hour set or whatever. Yeah. By the students that were running it.

Yep. Because, you know, in my perception, they were just, you know, triggered by, like, language and didn't understand the joke. So, but to your credit, it seems politically you are a relatively progressive person. Yes. And understand that, you know, you really are allowed to say whatever you want. Yep. And I think watching that tape that you knew from the beginning. The one thing I can tell as a comic is like at some point, because you kept saying it's like eventually I'm going to say something.

Yes. But I don't think you knew it was going to be that one. No, I think that whole incident, you know, I look back at it, you know, it's five years ago now. Right. But like you were given, like I assume, well, let me just set it up. What was the event? The Asian American Alliance. I don't know, I forget the exact specifics. Asian American Alliance put on this cultural event at Columbia University. And I was billed as the headliner for the program.

Because you were a writer? First writer of Indian descent on Saturday Night Live. How long did you have that job? One year, Okay. Uh, sadly, I wish I could, I wish I had a much better tenure there, but,

uh, what happened? A lot. I was, uh, I felt redundant. Uh, I think if I put it politely,

um, it was just one of those times like, and I also had no idea what the fuck I was doing. Right. Um, when I was there and, but at the time when I got the gig it was like april of 2018 yeah still at the show and they're like we we're putting this event on november this is our year

end planning session we'd love to have you you're the first indian of snl and snl like come like do stand up at our show i was like all right yeah for sure and uh uh i get there and immediately like i've already had a few colleges under my belt. Yeah. I already know what they are. They're kids. They're children. Yeah.

But it's also not a comedy club. Right. Yeah. It's an auditorium with, it's a fucking hall. Yeah. Also with a lot of people that wouldn't necessarily go to a comedy show or understand the context. Lights are bright. Yeah. I just, I'm following poetry and breakdancers, which is always a good opening act. And I get there and I knew immediately it was going to, like right before I get on

stage, one of the organizers said something to me, which I haven't revealed and I'll tell you off the record, that indicated to me, oh, this is going to be a little strange. Yeah, that's the worst feeling. And I was like, okay, thanks for that right before I get on stage. Yeah.

Get on stage, I let them know. And, you know, to my fault, I was a little too cool for school. Yeah. If I didn't learn anything about myself from the incident, then I haven't really learned anything.

Then the incident happened for no reason. But I was a little too casual. Yeah. I'm better than these students. Yeah. I did get rejected from Columbia. All of you are here. Yeah.

So I had that chip on my shoulder kind of thing going on. And here I am taking your money. Yeah. And 20 minutes in, you know, I said the joke about being gay can't be a choice because no one chooses to be gay

if they're already black, right? Which is... Yeah, the premise was like, I know that being gay is not a choice because there are black gay people. Exactly. No one's choosing to be gay if you're black already, right?

Good joke. Thank you. Yeah. It's in my head now, like I've been told like, oh, other comics have said it and I'm like, oh, okay. I've never heard it before when I thought of it.

Well, that's at least your problem is being accused of parallel creativity. Yes. But the issue was in that moment that it is a joke that you have to process for a second. For a second for a second and really the what's left out uh of the talking about that joke is the real punchline to let me take a step back right i'm crafting an hour that i want to shoot for hbo yeah to to send hbo yeah and so i'm stringing together all these different bits like that i haven't done in forever yeah that joke at that point in 2018 was probably six years old five years old but i had revisited it because i was talking shit about mike pence mike pence's sexuality sure and yeah i did a huge epic closer on that one of my specials oh sorry

where he blows jesus no it's all right i went way over the top okay yeah i'm not i'm not accusing you of anything i I just said, I said, the end of that joke is just like, the only person that chooses to be gay is Mike Pence. Yeah. He chooses to not be gay every day.

Yeah. And like that, that got a laugh. Yeah. But to me, that was the core of the joke. Like the other part of it was just fucking preamble for that.

Yeah. And then after that, I start talking to this girl because after that closed after that chunk is closed yeah i'm going to start talking about how my dad had a liquor store yeah and all the stuff that came with yeah because i'm gonna be pitching a show about my dad's store like i want to talk about this yeah but to get like my the way i work is in the way i've worked before is like if there's someone in the crowd that's close by and seems engaged, I'll talk to them. Yeah.

Just so I can pivot into my stuff. Mm-hmm. And I'm talking to this girl for probably like three minutes too long. Yeah. And it's uncomfortable because I don't have this sense of mind to be like, let me not ask prying questions to a girl who's not at a comedy club who's just like here in college and these are their kids are her peers yeah i don't have a sense of mind right not probe i'm just like trying to fish so i can pivot yeah that is uncomfortable and at the same time i clock these three organizers yeah who then come on, like in the mint, in the middle of my,

like not doing well with this crowd, crowd work lady. And then they come out. They're like, you're, we don't think you're entitled to say some of the jokes. I said, which one specifically? Well,

they said at first that like the tech guy left. Yeah. I think that I appreciate them trying to make it seem like not a thing. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And, uh,

but I'm looking at the tech guy. He's right there. And it's, but I'm looking at the tech guy. Yeah. He's right there. And it's like, it's like 815. That's a weird time for anything to shut down. Yeah. It's not on the hour. Right.

You know? And so that's going on my head. And they're like, I was like, which show specifically? Like the gay black one. I'm like paying the audience. There's like maybe two black kids there. Yeah. They seem to be having a good time.

I was paying the audience. There's like maybe two black kids there. They seem to be having a good time. And I'm like, what about that am I not entitled to say? How do you know I'm not black? How do you know I'm not gay? But I didn't say any of that. I was just like, to my credit and to my detriment, I was almost too composed in that moment.

Yeah. Because i was trying to be like i felt flush i felt like i felt embarrassed like what the fuck is going on right now yeah but in the moment i'm like i'm 30 what the 33 at the time i'm talking to a 19 20 year old about what i'm entitled to do and not say and you know i clocked that one of her shoes was mismatched, but I'm not saying any of that. I'm just like, I could make fun of you or I could say something crazy. I could make this really bad.

Yeah, I could make this uncomfortable. I could end my career right now if you wanted me to. But as I'm, and that, my biggest regret is that I wasn't funny enough in that moment.

Oh, right. Because I was like, in hindsight, I'm thinking of all the stupid shit Oh, right. Because I was like, in hindsight, I'm thinking of all the stupid shit I could have said, I could have, what I could have done. Okay, yeah. But I didn't. I was just trying to not get canceled, quote unquote,

for something, like say something like, oh, you're all like. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You didn't want to push it. Exactly. And so I tried to save it with the joke I'd done on Seth. Yeah. About how like Asians, we got to be, you know, there's a war going on in America, a race war.

Asians got to choose a side. And that bombed. And then they cut my mic and that was it. And it was such a, you know, flash forward weeks, months, years later, it still feels like people want to make me a victim of something. Right. And they can point to that as like, see, this is a real thing that's going on in this country. I'm like, like Tucker Carlson, like six months ago, three months ago, he did a documentary for documentary for fox news yeah and they took a clip of mine from rogan when i'm talking about the same thing yeah and trying to make it seem like a my career has been canceled compromised and be that

like this was a victim this is a this is indicative of woke culture on campus. Exactly. It was just three young people who thought they were doing the right thing. Yeah. Then just happened to be wrong, you know? But that's interesting, though, because to your credit, you didn't leave going like, damn, you can't say anything. Yeah, it was a misunderstanding. It was just like, I can, at the risk of alienating friends yeah you could say whatever the fuck you want as long as it's funny right and and and if you have to think about it

and realize well there might be consequences you have to be willing yeah to take those on yeah you can't people get fired all the time yeah like that's just what happens there's consequences to your actions and if you don't doesn't mean you can't do it exactly you. That's just what happens. There's consequences to your actions. But it doesn't mean you can't do it. But that's the challenge of it. Ride the line. Don't beat up on people that are already beat up if you can.

That's the whole thing. I was at the comedy store the other night and there were two comics in two different rooms talking about trans people. Do you know the ratio of trans people to other people in this country there's like four of them yeah and like in this way are they yeah it's like this is the theme that has to be revisited over and over again it's just and it's not even a punching down thing it's

just sort of like what is that yeah look for another well of material yeah that's why the that's why i call them i think that's hacky because that's the definition of the hack yeah that there's this whole generation of comics going, here's my trans shit. What is that? It's just, well, I think, and this was me very early on and probably until a few years ago, was that I grew up loving Chris and loving Patrice. And Patrice I came to know and love when I started comic. I didn't know Patrice before that.

But Chris was like, is my goat, right? And I aspired so much to be like Chris in the sense of, this man is talking about the world, society, what everyone else is talking about in the best way possible. Right. And I will try to give my attempt at talking about that. Yeah. And so, like, for the comics that are talking about trans stuff or whatever the fuck that's in the ether, I think it's just an attempt to emulate the people they admire.

But we're never, it only took, it took so long for me to become personal. Yeah. It took Thank You China and Lucky Lefty for me to be like, you know what? There's so much more depth to be had talking about myself.

And it was something that Chris said to me. It was that the more specific you get, the more universal you become somehow and also the less likely it is for people to take it exactly and it's like if you can distill from your experience growing up the son of a liquor store owner in uh who who drank and how you being indian felt different than every other indian and how your ego was shattered as a 22-year-old college graduate. If you can distill what you felt from that, then someone watching it will just take however they felt

at another similar moment in their lives and glue that onto that and now you become the most universal comedian there is because everyone goes through that similar ego-attering thing that's right everyone has a dad that they wish were more around in their lives everyone has a mom that has their own trauma like that or that is where you're gonna really find comedy that is talking to people in a way that you want to talk and your own yes and and the it's only when you've achieved that that you can have the gravity to talk about trans people or school shootings you know like that that school shooting bit that chris did in fuck after columbine yeah i got on the elevator and two high school white boys tried to dive on with me and i just dove off like y'all ain't killing me like that remains the best school shooting bit yeah and it's like only when you've

talked about your life and how you work for minimum wage and yeah and how your dad drove a truck right only then in doing that you earn the the gravity and the skills to talk about something with such depth and that's right. And I think that's correct. And I think, though, even given the situation at Columbia, what you're really dealing with is, you know, a hypersensitive kind of elevated empathy to others that is happening with young people. And they just couldn't grasp the joke. Yes.

That's really what it was. I just didn't get it. Yeah, right. And that's my fault as much as it is yours. I didn't make it as funny as it could have been, and maybe I was going for it. No, but to somebody in their 20s or to somebody that is formed

and has their own opinions and understands the sensitivity of the joke, it's like it's nothing. Yeah. It's like, oh, that's an interesting point. Yeah. That's what it is. It's exactly right. So before we like, oh, that's an interesting point. Yeah. That's what it is. It's exactly right.

So before we wrap it up, I forgot to ask. So how is it with the Jewish in-laws and your parents? My Jews and Hindus are very similar people. They're loud. They complain about each other's food. But they all get along? They all get along. Everything's super nice.

I think very early on in my relationship with my wife but when she was my girlfriend at the time i think only like two months in my dad was like so white girl and he's like what about the culture i'm like i'm indian let's not forget you know i'll be carrying this indian torch and he's like all right and that was it and then like i i will never forget it you know my uh parents invited her parents to our house, like, meet and hang out for the first time. And my wife's dad, who I got shot him out, Gene, who I'll tell you the story in a second, who came to my house in shorts and, like, a Hawaiian shirt or, like, a beer beer, like a Yingling shirt or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. My dad was like, I like this guy.

Because if an Indian family goes to someone else's house, they're like dressed up to the nines. Like, oh, we got to make a good impression. Yeah, yeah, yeah. My father-in-law came with the shorts, cargo shorts, just had a beer. And he's like, my dad's like, you know. And they have this bond where they talk without talking kind of thing. He's like, oh, yeah, good day like you know and they they have this like bond where they like they talk without talking

kind of thing it's like oh yeah good day to you and they laugh have a like it's so funny to see that's great but my father-in-law

Gene like he he wanted to do stand-up like a very like in the 80s yeah and then

had his daughters and had to kick that to the side of the road yeah but in 2020 pandemic he started Yeah. And then had his daughters and had to kick that to the side of the road. In 2020 pandemic, he started like right before pandemic, he started going to open mics again and like Poughkeepsie there because he's from Connecticut. Yeah. It's like a 40 minute drive. He's doing.

And now sometimes when I'm on the road and like Bridgeport or wherever, like he'll come up and like do 10 before me. And it's so much fun. like he'll come up and like do 10 before me and it's so much fun you know it's the best fucking time because like he like he's a 70 year old white guy yeah and some of the shit he talks about was like what the how where was that bro what you don't bring that up at thanksgiving at all and it's just like like raunchy shit about him going to the hospital and his wife likes having sex i'm like jesus fucking christ bro I don't need to know any of this. Does he do well?

He's done poorly once or twice and he's done well once or twice. He crushed at my wedding. Oh, good. Like fucking destroyed. That was the important gig. It was like I had a comics table and only one of my friends knew him,

my friend Mookie, who opens for for me directed my lucky lefty special Mookie opened for me in Bridgeport Connecticut and Mookie has a closing joke implying that uh the principal of his school fucked his mom yeah and so my father-in-law went up right after him yeah he goes uh goes not only am I Mookie not only my uh Nemesh's father-in-law I'm also Mookie's principal. They fucking leveled the room then. But at my wedding, he goes up, and now I'm nervous, right? Because I know he's got the chops, but I know he's got 12 of the funniest people on the planet watching him.

And I know he knows that. He goes up and just lavishes daughter lavishes his daughter with praise that she deserves yeah and then just fucking destroys me and every like like everyone's like I'm like and I'm I'm drunk I'm like we're gonna make you a star you're gonna be famous you know it famous. You got that on video? Oh, yeah. I got to put that shit out. Everyone, my whole family is just fucking mean and funny.

Everyone destroyed at my wedding. It was really annoying. Oh, that's sweet. Yeah. Good talking to you, man. You too, man. Thank you very much. Again, his comedy special, Lefty is on YouTube,

and you can go to FindingNimesh.com for tickets to his Fast and Loose comedy tour. Hang out for a minute. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations,

how a cannabis company markets its products big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. It's a night for the whole family. Be a part of Kids Night when the Toronto Rock take on the Colorado Mammoth at a special 5 p.m. start time on Saturday, March 9th

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we posted an archive deep dive this week that goes into detail on some past WTF episodes that could be considered problematic today. The point that we have to make around these episodes and certainly around Patrice and, you know, even in, in, in light of not a non-controversial episode, but a revealing one, the Robin Williams is that many of these interviews i would say you know most of them that i do you know function as fairly accurate and um revealing portraits of a person that's right so it's like an aural portrait yeah and and it's and all of them are of a time in whatever point

in these people's lives that we record them. But you can't hide for an hour, really. And even if you're hiding from me in that hour, that's going to reveal something about your character or your personality. So what you're hearing and another reason, I wouldn't even call it an argument, but another reason why these have to remain available is that they are that they are historical portraits of these people, you know, done in an audio fashion. WTF pod.com and click on WTF plus next week. We have comedian Amanda seals on Monday and writer Andrew Leland on Thursday, who has a new book called the country of the blind about his progression, uh, of losing his sight. Here we go.

I guess what I'm using is not a quick track, but it's just a metronome, but I think it's helping. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Boomer lives. Monkey, Lafonda, cat angels everywhere.