WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1487 - José Andrés

Episode Date: November 13, 2023

Chef José Andrés could have been best known as the owner of some of the most celebrated restaurants in the world. But now he is arguably more well known as someone who feeds people around the world in their times of greatest need. José talks with Marc about the reason he founded World Central Kitchen, how the organization went from providing food relief in disaster areas to operating in active war zones, and how the chaos of restaurants prepared the chef and his team for the unpredictable nature of relief work. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

You can get anything you need with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats. But meatballs and mozzarella balls, yes, we can deliver that. Uber Eats. Get almost, almost anything. Order now. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. Be honest. When was the last time you thought about your current business insurance policy?

If your existing business insurance policy is renewing on autopilot each year without checking out Zensurance, you're probably spending more than you need. That's why you need to switch to low-cost coverage from Zensurance before your policy renews this year. Zensurance does all the heavy lifting to find a policy, covering only what you need. And policies start at only $19 per month. So if your policy is renewing soon, go to Zensurance and fill out a quote. Zensurance. Mind your business. Lock the gates! soon go to zensurance and fill out a quote zensurance mind your business all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fuck n's happening? I'm Mark Maron. This is my podcast.

WTF, the original, the authentic WTF. This is it. Two shows a week since 2009. The original WTF featuring Mark Maron. That's me. What's happening? I'd like to tell you that Chef Jose Andres is on the show. This is a guy, brilliant chef, genius. Spent the first part of his career as just a chef and owner of restaurants. And then he became very, very well known for his humanitarian work. He founded World Central Kitchen, which brings food relief into disaster areas and war zones all over the world. Ron Howard made a documentary about him last year called We Feed People, which I watched, and we just got into it. Lively guy, but what a righteous dude, man. I mean, he changed the world, this guy.

Deserves the Nobel Peace Prize, this guy. For sure. Great conversation. I'm in Denver, Colorado at the Comedy Works South for four shows. November 17th and 18th. Those early shows are sold out. Los Angeles and surrounding areas. A lot of shows in December here. Dynasty Typewriter on

December 1st, 13th, and 28th. The Elysian on December 6th, 15th, and 22nd. And Largo on December 12th and January 9th. Then we go into the tour tour. San Diego at the Observatory North Park on Saturday, January 27th. San Francisco, I'm at the Castro Theater on Saturday, February 3rd. I'm in Portland, Maine at the State Theater on Thursday, March 7th. Medford, Massachusetts. Outside Boston at the Chevalier Theater on Friday, March 8th. Providence, Rhode Island at the Strand Theater on Saturday, March 9th.

And Tarrytown, New York at the Tarrytown Music Hall on Sunday, March 10th. Go to wtfpod.com slash tour for tickets. On Saturday night, I was in Albuquerque, New Mexico doing a show at the Chemo Theater, but I flew out there on Thursday, But I flew out there on Thursday. And before I left, before I left for Albuquerque, my kitten, Charlie, Charlie Beans Roscoe, got sick and stopped eating. Now, I've been through this before. I went through it with Buster. He had pancreatitis and he didn't eat for a week. And even Charlie, about a year ago maybe a little less same thing didn't eat for days it's the worst so he stops eating on wednesday thursday

morning doesn't eat and i gotta go so now i'm panicking about the cat kit's taking care of the cats and she did but it was a pain in the ass. It's so horrible when these cats don't eat. She had to take them to the vet to get x-rays. There was nothing in his stomach. And I'm just out there. I go to New Mexico and now I'm totally freaked out about the cat because I think the worst she's trying to keep me from freaking out, which is reasonable, but I freak out about cats. I lose my fucking mind. So much goes into these animals. So much of my emotion goes into these animals. It just, I love these animals and it kills me when they're sick and I don't know what's going to happen.

And I put down or lost or they've died. I've been through many cats, but you never get used to that shit. So I go to New Mexico with this on my heart and in my mind and trying not to freak out. There's bigger things in the world. Thousands of people are dying. Thousands of people are being killed. Thousands of people have much bigger problems than a sick cat. But this was my problem when I went to New Mexico. Then I go to New Mexico and I see my dad. Now I'm happy to report that my father is holding steady with his mental condition, with his dementia. He was engaged.

He remembered things. He was fun. He said some weird shit. Weird shit's coming out of him. Maybe I'll process it through humor. Maybe I'll just ponder it to figure out how it came out of his fucking mouth. I'm doing this show at the chemo theater, which I don't think I've really been in since I saw George Thorogood and the destroyers there when I was in high school. And I remember that night because we drove down there, but I remember we were driving and we're getting into it with a car next to us and they pulled the gun on us. They pointed a gun out their window and we had to slam on the brakes to avoid whatever was going to happen with that gun.

And that's just growing up in New Mexico, man. There's guns around. But that was the last time I was in this theater. And it was beautiful. It's a beautiful theater. It seats about 650. We sold it out for the endorphin power company rehab and drug treatment facility. They sponsored it. Jeff Holland down there promoted the show, put on the show. So I had nice mix of people from the recovery community, a lot of people who were just fans, a lot of people who I went to high school with, my dad's wife's family, which is extensive. And it was moving and I was nervous. I was nervous to go perform in my hometown in that way because when you get to your hometown, some part of you is that guy

when you were growing up there. And I was not the hilarious guy. I was not the center of attention. I was the needy guy that was desperately trying to hang around with the people that I like to hang around with. I was intense. I was fragile and I was a little lost in terms of my sense of self. And, and that, that comes back. And all of a sudden you have all these people, like my buddy's parents were there, you know, like people I went to high school with who I haven't seen in year, 20 years. It's crazy. And I was concerned that maybe I would regress and get up there and just be the fucking weirdo I was in high school. But it didn't happen. Chad Ryden came up from Taos.

He's a guy I knew in Nashville who I worked with years ago. He's a comic. He's living out there in the middle of nowhere in a buried school bus or something doing an off-the-grid thing. So I pulled him in. He opened for me. And I did grid thing. So I pulled him in, he opened for me and, uh, and I did the show and I, you know, I riffed, I talked about Albuquerque, the chemo's very interesting because it's, it was built in like the thirties and it's, it's sort of a, a native design to the place. And there's actually swastikas, swastikas, you know, in several places in the design, you know, and what I said was,

as many of you know, the swastika is an ancient native symbol that means anti-Semitism. But I was happy everybody came out in Albuquerque. I was happy to see everybody in the audience. And I think it was a very good show. And it was a real homecoming. So if you were there, thank you. Oh, I forgot to get you some closure around Charlie. Still not great. But he did eat a little bit this morning. I don't know.

I'm going to go in now. And I'm going to see if I can get him to eat some more. And hopefully we can get him to eat some more and hopefully we can get him back on track. I just hate when they get so sick and you don't know what it is

and you just have to start thinking. You have to accommodate the idea that you might lose this buddy you have because I love this guy. You know,

he's like, he's the first normal one I had and I'm like, I finally got a healthy one. He's not, doesn't have fucked up kidneys like Buster.

He just doesn't have pea crystals like Sammy. He's got personality. He's healthy. And then, you know, he just went down last week. I mean, just fucking, and I'm like, man, you know, and I just have, you know, it's been a year and a half with this cat and I got very emotionally invested with him. And then the weirdest thing was I was down at Los Poblanos. Um, and this was Saturday night after the show. And, you know, I talked to Kit and Charlie had not eaten. And then I was, you know, and I was drained from the show and drained emotionally from the experiences with people that, you know, I had in Albuquerque, both good and not bad, but I explained it earlier. And I get out of my car and I've got a bag of stuff, you know, my notes and some cookies.

And there's a cat that lives down at Los Poblanos in Albuquerque named Mouse. He's a great cat. He's been there for years an old guy kind of lives outside and inside but he's just around this ginger cat and i get out of my car and it's it's midnight you know it's like 11 30 and it's i just hear and i look down there's mouse i'm like what's up mouse and I look down, there's Mouse. I'm like, what's up, Mouse? And, you know, I'm all sad about Charlie, and I just start walking, because my room, I was staying in the back in one of the Greeley suites, and Mouse is just following me, like, meow, and I'm like, what's going on, man? And, you know, And I'm like, what's going on, man? And, you know, he followed me all the way to my room.

And then he came in my room and, and he swept in, he slept with me in my room, this mouse cat, this cat, like he must've sensed, you know, the, the heaviness, you know, I've engaged with this cat before, but he just hung out in my room and I sat on the couch and then I went to bed and then he climbed into bed with me. And I was just petting him thinking I was trying to tap into the cat frequency that connects all cats to try to make Charlie better. that connects all cats to try to make Charlie better. But Mouse kind of hung out, took care of me on Saturday night. And then I talked to Kit Sunday morning and Charlie was eating. So I don't know. I don't know. You make of it what you will. But I want to thank Mouse, the ranch cat down at Los Poblanos,

for being there for me on Saturday night. Okay, so look, you guys, this is a very interesting interview. It's not like one we've done before. Jose Andres is the real deal of facilitating real change and service in the world. Putting together, you know, from just being on the ground and having the need to help has done amazing things in terms of humanitarian assistance with food, feeding people in disaster areas and war zones. And how it evolved is a fascinating story. It makes me feel small and like I don't do enough, uh,

because this guy has done amazing things and continues to do amazing things. Chef Jose has just collaborated on a new graphic novel called feeding dangerously. You can get it now, wherever you get books, it's a beautiful book. And this is, uh,

me talking to, uh, to the chef. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, a beautiful book. And this is me talking to the chef. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising.

Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Death is in our air. This year's most anticipated series, FX's Shogun, only on Disney+. We live and we die. We control nothing beyond that. An epic saga based on the global best-selling novel by James Clavel. To show your true heart is to risk your life. When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive. FX's Shogun, a new original series streaming February 27th exclusively on Disney+.

18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. So what do you eat for breakfast? Coffee. That's it? That's it. That's what I do. Just one cappuccino.

And then what? Then you don't eat for how long? That's another. It's never long enough. Yeah? My life is like full of food in every second. Yeah? Which is great, but it's like, oh, man.

Too much food on the brain? Always? It's food and wine and cocktails. Yeah. Sounds terrible. I don't know how you get through it. Actually, I think I'm in a very good shape for how much comes my way.

Yeah? It is so much. It's like... Yeah. My house sometimes looks like Bethlehem. Yeah. When everybody, all the shepherds and the kings were bringing. My house, I feel like, with all due respect, but like baby Jesus, everybody brings me.

Like, I open my door sometimes and they just use boxes and boxes. It's like a wall of boxes. What do you mean? People just send you food? Yeah. But like, is it like brands? Is it like, you know, try this oil, try this nut? Or worse.

It's like I'm sending you one year shipment of something. Oh, yeah. Because you said you like it in the podcast. Yeah, and it's like, really? I got a whole room full of liquid death water. Oh, liquid death water. Oh, liquid death water. This is good.

Yeah, but it's okay. It's just water, but it keeps coming. So what do you do with all that food? Do you have a separate garage for it? I do. I taste, and then I give it away to friends if I like it. And if you like it, do you give it a little juice? Yeah. It's difficult if you don't like it to give it to somebody because, but hold on, that

I don't like it doesn't mean it's bad. Yeah. It's only I don't personally like it. Sure, sure, right. Even I like very much everything. I receive food, I send food. I cannot believe I came empty handed to your house today. Well, I'm not, you know, I wasn't expecting any food.

That's why, that's why. I don't, I know you don't live here, so I was not expecting you. No, but they have two restaurants, another one. Right here. In the making, yeah. Oh, yeah. So then, like, you know what? Well, I'll just call in a favor.

Do you know what I mean? I'll say, like, you know, a chef said I could come eat. Okay, you know what we're going to do? I'm going to be texting as we speak. No. Which restaurant? I'm going to make sure, if it's not today, but I send you some of the foods

I have in some shops around the country. Well, it's a little tricky right now because I've chosen to be vegan lately. I have a line of... I don't like the word vegan. You don't like it? No, I don't like to put names. You can be whatever you want.

You eat vegetables. I know it's good for a mean, but it's... You can be whatever you want. Right. You eat vegetables. Right. I know it's good. It's good for a waiter, but still when people tell me vegan, I'm confused. I'm like, okay, I am a vegan too, I guess, sometimes. But it comes tricky with the protein. It's tricky with the protein. Correct.

Yeah. But it's always a way. Oh, yeah. No, I didn't even do it for any real reason, just to see if I could get the cholesterol down. That helps. Yeah, it helps. And I don't mind cooking for it. Like, I like to cook.

I don't go out that much. I'm not a good cook. You are not a good cook. I'm okay. I mean, I can do it. You're surviving, so you're good enough. I think it's important to know how to cook for yourself. So when you go to New York, you go cats?

Sometimes. You see the shirt? I used to. Can't do for yourself. So when you go to New York, you go cats? Sometimes. You see the shirt? I used to. Can't do it anymore. Not a lot of vegan options at cats. Well, technically, those animals they use

to make the pastrami, they only eat vegetables. Yeah, well, I understand that logic. So my point is, if they're vegan and you're vegan and you're eating

a vegan piece of meat, technically, you're still vegan. I get it. It's not really, but I mean. I'm sorry. On an ethical basis, they still got to kill the nice vegetable eating animal.

It's just matter that keeps transforming itself. I know, but some has. It's energy transforming itself in energy. Yeah, but some of it. I get it. Some of it has more fat than others. Some of the energy has more. That's true.

But we put fat away. Yeah. I know. For health reasons, it's good. Balance. Balance diet. That's true. But we put fat away. Yeah. I know. For health reasons, it's good. Balance. Balance diet. A balance diet. Yeah.

What do you think of pickle things? Oh, I love pickle. Right? Pickle me, tickle me, tickle me too. When for a ride in a flying shoe. Oh, my God. I love Silverstein. Oh, Silverstein's great.

Yeah. Oh, I miss that guy. So, pickle. I love pickle. Do you do pickle? But pickle is something I got. Growing up, it's not like we had pickles in Spain. What kind?

Like olives? The tiny pickled cucumbers. Oh, yeah, yeah. And the pickled green, beautiful peppers. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, we make a pincho in the Basque country, which is called gilda, a gilda, you know? Yeah.

Gilda from the movie? Sure, yeah. That pincho. And he's, yeah, he's olive and he's anchovy. Yeah. And he's a pickle pepper, green pepper. And I love that. But I fall in love with pickles in the States.

Yeah. There's so many pickles over there. I think it's good for you. It's good for your gut. One of my favorite pickles ever, I was very young,

I was in this French restaurant called Nature in Barcelona and we used to make these pickle cauliflower. Oh yeah. Crunchy still but pickle,

oh my God, a pickle cauliflower is good. Not too long with the vinegar? No, that's a mother. If the vinegar my God, a pickle cauliflower is good. Not too long with the vinegar? No, that's a mother. If the vinegar is right, more is more. Yeah, but you don't have to leave it too long.

Don't get too soft. No, no, no. Not like a long pickle. Short. No, no, it's just still crunchy. I was in Barcelona once years ago, and I went to a seafood tapas place, and I think about it often. Little fish, little ones, all fried, almost the size

of French fries. Yep. What are those? Probably. Well, it's different ones. Yeah. But at that size, probably they were boquerones. Yeah.

But can be big boquerones or small boquerones. Boquerones is what you will call an anchovy. Yeah. Didn't taste like an anchovy. But that's what the boqueron, yeah. The issue is that the boqueron is when you will call an anchovy. Yeah. Didn't taste like an anchovy. But that's what the boqueron, yeah. The issue is that the boqueron is when it's not salted. Yeah. When it's put in vinegar.

Yeah. So it's funny. Boqueron will be, and I forgot the Latin name because then we will be speaking proper English. Yeah. But when you eat it raw, in this case fried or plancha on the flat top, it's called boqueron. Yeah. in this case, fry or plancha on the flat top, is called boqueron. When that same fish you pickle in vinegar is also called boquerones. Right.

But then when you put it on salt, it's called anchovy. But it's the same fish. Same fish. But we have different types, so I don't know which one you had. But if it's tiny, not too big, like a French fry, could be a small boqueron.

Very good. Fried fish. Pescadito frito. It's not so typical in Barcelona. Obviously, we fry all around Spain. But pescadito frito is really very typical in the south of Spain. More fish? The land of olive oil.

Big sea. Half of Andalusia is the Mediterranean. And half of Andalusia is the Atlantic Ocean. And, big sea. Yeah. Half of Andalusia is the Mediterranean. Yeah. And half of Andalusia is the Atlantic Ocean. Right. And they love frying. Okay. And especially they love frying fish.

Yeah. I think if I ever go back to eating meat, it's going to be fish. Yeah, that's a good one. Eggplant. They fry also eggplant. Eggplant. Eggplant with honey. It's very good. Very traditional.

This was dishes that all the Arabs, all the coming into Spain in the 7th century became. They brought the eggplants. Very traditional. Very traditional dish. Yeah. Eggplants are kind of tricky sometimes, I think. Eggplants, like everything, is so many different types of eggplants. Yeah, yeah.

Sure. And also if they are tender and they are younger versus if they are older. I mean, you know what happens? What? That every ingredient. Yeah. When they ask me, do you know about this? I say very quickly, no.

Yeah. Do you know about tomatoes? No. Why? Because there is thousands and thousands of different varieties of tomatoes. Yeah, but the more you know, the more you know you know nothing. Right.

Like, do you know about eggplant? Nope. But as like a premier chef, you can't be like, no,

tomatoes are, I know nothing. Correct, but still, it's very challenging because every species is

something else. Well, let me ask you, because I've got this book, it's very nice. I mean, my name is in the cover. It's kind of a big lie. What are you talking about? Well,

really the book was done by Steve Orlando. Steve Orlando was the guy that made it happen. He's the guy that contacted me. And I only did share with him the story, share some of the photos I took. But I mean, as a graphic novel or a graphic book, it's very pretty. The art's very pretty. Alberto Ponticelli.

Yeah. The stories are very good. I imagine it'd be good to, you know, for maybe a high school students, younger, like I enjoyed reading it, but there's, you know, the message is there. Same with the documentary, same with all the work. I think this is a book that is good for young children that like comic books. Yeah. And they care about the world they see all the way to older folks like you and me. Yeah. I think the universe of these, that's why I like this type of comic book, these graphic novels.

Yeah. Because sometimes life is busy and complicated. And sometimes, me personally, I've always enjoyed comics and manga. And sometimes I've been reading graphic novels because it's very enjoyable to have the picture, the painting in front of you, the visual of what you're reading. So very thankful to Steve Orlando and obviously TKO because I think it's a very good work and tells a story.

It doesn't tell my story, but obviously I'm the founder of World Central Kitchen, but tells the story of hundreds and hundreds of people that believe that together we could be feeding anyone, anywhere in the most difficult situations. Well, I thought there was some interesting stuff when I watched the documentary. The funny thing was is that when I look at where you come from in terms, not just Spain, but in terms of culinary, right?

Culinary training, culinary expression. What do you call it? Molecular gastro gastronomy. Yeah. We don't like that name, but it's what people. What name would you like? It's funny because that type of cooking, somebody call it techno emotional, but I don't think it's a term. It gets made fun of a bit, that type of cooking.

Could be, often. With the foams? Yeah, but the people that does that, they don't really think much. Oh, yeah? Because probably are the same people that go to a Starbucks and order a cafe mocha. Maybe. And they put the whipped cream on top that comes out of a machine that happens is a foam. Yeah, I get it.

For example. But sometimes you don't want a clam foam. Right, but sometimes you don't want a bad onion soup and a bad hot dog. Yeah. At the end, it's only two types of foods. Yeah, which? The good ones and the bad ones. Right.

Any cooking, traditional cooking can be very bad. Yeah. As well, modern, more avant-garde cooking can be unbelievably good. I mean, that's interesting because, you know, when somebody says this is my mother's recipe and I made it exactly like her and it's terrible. Correct. Or how many times we say, oh, my God, I had the best turkey.

And you know they're lying. There's no good turkey. The turkey was like killed three times. It was dry. No, not true. My turkey is always good. Do you have it on a menu? But you know why?

Because precisely the mockery that sometimes goes around molecular. Yeah. Because if you control the temperature, you control the time. Yeah, I make a good turkey. All of a sudden. Don't overcook it. You can achieve success. Sure. That's why when you drink wine. Yeah, I make a good turkey. All of a sudden- Don't overcook it. You can achieve success. Sure.

That's why when you drink wine, that's molecular. Right. No, I understand. When you eat cheese- I didn't mean to put you on the defensive. No, you're not. I'm talking to everybody who follows you. When you eat cheese, that's molecular.

Of course, everything's molecular. When you eat bread that is being fermented, that's molecular. Of course, everything's molecular. When you eat bread that is being fermented, that's molecular. Of course. When you love your roasted or grilled steak, which is the maillard, that's molecular. I understand, but this is the same argument you made about how eating a cow is vegan. I understand it's all. It's only, and I would argue against in the contrary. I think sometimes arguing against everything,

it's only you are in a good way, polite way, respectful way. In a way, I think it's healthy because you are always trying to see both sides of the equation. Right. But you grew up with hearty food, hearty Spanish food. Like, you know, you talk a lot about, you know, your dad's cooking. Yeah. And you talk a lot about the dad's cooking and you talk a lot about the food you grew up with.

And I just think the turn that you made that I thought was interesting in your story was you spend all this time, you become this amazing chef doing this molecular whatever you want to call it. Very specific, very pretty, very small but exciting, right?

And good and tasty. Yeah, right? And good and tasty. Yeah, it's all good and tasty. But then I also do tomato bread, Catalan style. Yeah. With olive oil and salt. But I thought what was interesting is there's that moment of stubbornness when you started, you know, the World Central Kitchen. And you're going into these areas that you don't know necessarily what they eat indigenously. And you bring your style of cooking or just practical cooking, and then the people are

like, we don't really eat like this. Yeah, this is a story I told because it happened in real time of the many stories. Was it in Haiti first? That was in Haiti. I was in a camp. It was this Spanish NGO called CESAL. I was in a camp. It was this Spanish NGO called CESAL.

It's the ones that very much welcomed me into their family because they had a lot of experience in Haiti. It's always good to go with somebody, if possible, that understands what's going on in the place you're going. And I was cooking a few days. But that day, specifically, I made those beans, which were in season, and you could buy them anywhere. And. But that day specifically I made those beans which were in season and you could buy them anywhere.

Yeah. And I love that. That's one of the World Central Kitchen marks that we buy local every time we can. Yeah.

But I made the beans and it was very funny that this woman, which I guess after a few days they were comfortable with me and everybody was helping and they

would come to me and, hey, thank you. Thank you, little white boy, for feeding us. But, you know, these beans, we don't really eat them this way. I would love for you to, can we do something about it? I'm like, well, you didn't tell me before. Like, well, we didn't want to touch your feelings. You were there to help.

And it's great when this happens. And I tell that story because I think it's a good message. That very often, especially in these situations of humanitarian aid, eternally sometimes is like you come from the outside trying to bring the aid you think the people want, but actually it's what you want. But you are not really listening to them in real time what they really need. And I think it's very fundamentally essential that we listen to the people we are trying to help. Even if it's about, you know, you think you're making food, sustenance, and it's comfortable, it's comforting,

but comfort food in every different part of the world is different. Correct, but at the end, it doesn't take much. It's not like I'm going to— It's a, it's comforting, but comfort food in every different part of the world is different. Correct, but at the end, it doesn't take much. It's not like I'm going to— It's a few spices. You know, when you go to Syria or when you go to Turkey— Have you been to Syria? Yeah. Yeah?

In the last earthquake. Oh, really? Yeah. We had to cross. I crossed a few times. We crossed—we were doing close to 150,000 meals a day in the northern part of Syria, which was technically safer because Syria is like... And the dishes we were making were dishes that they were traditional in Syria.

Like what? Or in Turkey. In Turkey, we would be making, I don't know, In Turkey, we will be making, I don't know, hunker begendi, which is this amazing stew with lamb and spices, which is fascinating. But the issue is those are the ingredients that are easily, usually available. Yeah.

And the cooks you have helping you is the dishes they know. Yeah. So it's kind of a no-brainer. Sure. But for you to be, you know, with your sort of experience and understanding of cooking, you know, when you look at it at a molecular level or however you look at it, the adjustment is something, it's second nature, right?

You can understand how these flavors work together. Agree. Yeah. What's fascinating to me about cooking is once you get to a skill set that is as deep as yours, that, you know, there's part of your brain where you see what they eat there

and you're like, oh, of course that makes sense. It's not what I would have done necessarily, but I see how that works. But let me show you where it's important. Obviously, knowledge of physics allows you to understand food better. Why a mayonnaise happens or why it breaks. Why mayonnaise needs of this protein or of this liquid H2O and why the emulsion happens.

Once you understand this, I can start substituting the egg protein. Yeah. I can start substituting for other protein. Right. I can start substituting the oil for other oils. In the moment you start understanding the physics and the chemistry of ingredients gives you a power that before you didn't have and you were blind. So, you know, we've been teaching at Harvard now for 12 years. But that's second nature to you.

When you were 15 working at – I was learning. We were learning. But they weren't saying, like, this is physics. Correct. We were not until we realized that was physics. Right. Someone had to tell you it was physics.

Well, we saw that we needed more, and who do you go to? Right. You go to the physics professors and the scientists that solves you a lot of problems if you ask the right person. So these problems were problems that came when you started to feed on a mass scale, or this is stuff you learned earlier? No, at the end what we do is more about logistics very often, but sometimes it does. Happens that, I would say, a year ago we sent Paella to the space station.

And for me it was a thing of pride. It was great to be working with Paella in space? Pi in space, which was a little bit messy because we didn't make it wet enough. And when they opened the back, I heard that some of the grains were floating in the space station, but that's... Wait, wait, wait. But was that just something that you...

I mean, they weren't in trouble up there. No, no, I didn't create it. I didn't create the end of the space station. At least I hope so. But they weren't starving in space and you stepped in. But I'm very happy that I was able to do this. But I'm only explaining this to you because then you talk humanitarian. We don't usually do this.

What happens is that in Ukraine we found a company that had the same technology to make that same food that we were sending to the space station. And that means that there was food that didn't need any refriger-to-get places where we couldn't bring sometimes fresh food. We were able to be shipping that food in that bag. Same technology, same understanding of not directly with the food, but the way to preserve the food. That same technology allows us to put good quality food in very difficult to deliver places. Situations. So you see, that same technique that can allow me to make

the most sophisticated, perfectly cooked meat or piece of vegetable because I control the temperatures. I control the environment where it's cooked and allows me to make the most sophisticated dish in my super Michelin star restaurant. It's at the end the same Nautilus that can allow me to send food to the space station. Yeah. Or one day feed people in Mars. But it's the same technology that sometimes can be helping us feed people in war zones.

Yeah. Under very difficult circumstances. So you see, at the end, Nautilich allows you to do the best for the few, but to do the best for the many. But you could never have anticipated the life you're living when you started cooking. Well, life is this trouble we take through these ways that are ahead of us, and that as you walk ahead, the way keeps showing itself. Because if we go back, you know, when you started to cook,

I mean, your passion for cooking, you started very young, right? Yeah, I don't think it was a beginning. It was just life. Life. I was always a happy eater, and I liked everything besides green peppers. And your dad was a cook. And my dad was a nurse that loved how to cook, and my mom was a nurse that loved how to cook. Your mom was a good cook, too? She was more the Monday through Friday.

Yeah. But she would be able to do anything with nothing. Yeah. And my father was more the one cooking for everybody. And what did he do? A nurse. Both were nurses. Oh, nurses.

Nurse, nurse. They're both nurses. Nurse in a hospital. So that's interesting. So you grew up with parents who had, they instinctively were of service. That was their job. Yeah, very much.

And because I started to think about, before you come over, you know, chefs, you know, everybody knows now, you know, that you're all crazy. Some more than others. But no, but there is a pace to it. It was sort of a secret among kitchen people, you know, or people who worked in restaurants. But now people like, you know, like the bear, the TV show. Now everybody knows that chefs in kitchens are exciting and they're crazy and they're chaotic and sometimes it's completely—

Creative is all of the above. Creative, sure. I would not say it's one type of trade that you can apply to every single cook or every single person in a restaurant. But a high-end restaurant, the level—it's captured in the documentary a little bit that there is a level of hopefully it's not unpredictable. But once one thing goes wrong and that chain reaction starts, it can be fucking chaos. Well, yeah, it can be intense.

I mean, we need to understand that when you're feeding people in the moment something goes wrong. Yeah. Yeah. It's a chain reaction. I just love how like how it's so important because like when I really think about it, I guess the world of fine dining, the expectations are so high. But sometimes in a kitchen, it seems like it's going to be life or death, and you're just talking about mushrooms. Yeah. And restaurants can be chaos, especially big ones, when you have multiple people ordering different things at once.

Yeah, yeah. And then all of a sudden the computers break or the person, as many people start ordering crazy things that they see nothing. Yeah. But when you get enough of them, a kitchen in the wrong moment can have a hard time adapting. I guess my question is like there is, you know, as you, you know, as the way your career sort of unfolded and, you know, you open up many restaurants and you're celebrated and you're doing new and exciting things with the type of foods that, you know, you sort of grew up with and you're kind of pushing the envelope that it seems to me that there is a lot of ego involved. of ego involved. At what point and why do you think you rose to a level of success and fame in a way and expertise that the instinct or the necessity to be of service, you know, became paramount

to almost anything else? Well, but the star chef, I don't know. For me and for any other chefs, we don't say I star doctor or or we don't say I start a comedian, or we don't say— But you do say a doctor who made the first transplant. Correct. But chefs, we are obviously our profession over the last so many years because we are invited to podcasts like yours or to late-night shows or now it's TV shows. And it's great. But the truth is that the vast majority of people in our profession,

the people behind my restaurants, the fast food to the fancy ones, this is a beautiful profession, but it's a profession that, you know, it's hard, but then so many other professions are hard. Okay, so maybe, how about brilliant?

Yeah, that's better. But this thing of a star. How about brilliant? Yeah, that's better. But this thing of a star chef or I think it's, yeah, we are cooks. I cook. I don't say I'm a very good chef. I have better people than me next to me that know how to operate the kitchen better. Those are the chefs. Always? Me, I'm a cook.

Yeah, I've been always terrible managing a kitchen. It's not my biggest asset. Why? Because I don't have the concentration sometimes. And that's why I have so many restaurants, why I do so many things. Do you think you have like ADHD or something? Probably. Probably. I need to go to a doctor because, yeah, I have a hard time

concentrating. But my concentration is when I put my brain into something, I give my best. But usually at high intensity for short periods of time. Just long enough to get a dish out? And everybody has their own ways. We are all different. But this is probably why for me going to this humanitarian, I went because I felt that my profession could be of service.

And I went because I felt that my profession could be of service. Maybe it was because I read, when I was young, Steinbeck, and this had a big influence in me. What about, were you brought up religious in Spain? Yeah, Catholic. How did that affect your brain? Like, I mean, how religious? Were you afraid of hell? Did you, you know?

No. I think religion, when it brings the best out of us, if religion brings the worst out of us, it's not good. Did you grow up with both sides of that? No, just the good side. At least I would not like to believe that. But the idea of saintliness was a real idea, right? For me, it was cool that Jesus multiplied bread and fish. I think it's a cool thing. If you're going to celebrate a religion that wants to multiply, that's great.

I thought Jesus was cool for that. I mean, even he cooked once in the Bible breakfast for the apostles. So if anything, as a young boy going to religion class and going sometimes to church on Sundays, me, any religion, I have plenty of friends of other religions. Any religion that just bring the best out of us and allows everybody to be free, to be, you know, giving the same dignity to others that you want to receive. Right. Giving the same respect to others that you want to receive. Yeah.

And not imposing your belief on others. Sure. Because you think yours are better than theirs. Sure. That's the type of religious guy I may be. Right. But I like that the thing that impacted you was that, like, a lot of people needed food and Jesus could make the food. 30 years ago, when I arrived in Washington, D.C., specifically. From Spain to make the food. Well, I think 30 years ago when I arrived in Washington, D.C. specifically.

From Spain to make the restaurant? I went to New York first, but I ended in D.C. And I went to this organization called D.C. Central Kitchen. And I met a guy called Robert Egger, a bartender. Yeah. That saw that food was being wasted all around D.C. Always, everywhere. And then he thought, let's do something good with it. Let's try to feed the homeless population with those trays in the caterings of hotels in New York that was about to go garbage.

Let's pick it up. It's untouched. It's fresh. Aren't there some laws against that, I thought? But this is a great thing of me moving to D.C. The Good Samaritan Law was passed in 1996, 1997, during the Clinton times. Yeah.

Secretary Glickman. And the Good Samaritan Law was a law that was, in a way, protecting individuals and corporations to donate good food in good faith and not being made liable if something happened. So therefore, this is Central Kitchen. I'm a young boy. I'm the chef of this restaurant, Jaleo.

And I began volunteering. So I'm feeding the female restaurant, but I began volunteering in this Central Kitchen, feeding the many, taking food that was about to be wasted, taking people out of the streets, teaching them, training them to be cooks. So this is before you even had your own restaurant? At the same time, alongside. And all of a sudden, I find a way to my own profession that allows me to feed the few my same talent and the talent that millions of cooks around the world have was the talent that we

could use to feed the many. I became chairman of that organization. I had my learning in how food can be empowering communities. We were, imagine, not only feeding the homeless, but we were rescuing food, rescuing people from the streets, training them, feeding the homeless population. And at the same time, once those guys graduated after learning the craft of cooking, restaurants like mine hiring them. One dollar not thrown at the problem of feeding the poor, but one dollar multiplied by five creating hope in a community. This is what I saw the power of food to change the world.

And you're doing all that while you're feeding the president sometimes at the restaurant. Correct. And feeding senators and making a restaurant that opened in the middle of nowhere when the streets were empty and understanding the power of a restaurant to build community. Well, in terms of community at that time in Washington, you know, how involved with you early on with, you know, trying to influence policy of any kind? Well, I was 23 years old when I arrived, but very quick, I remember seeing a hunger

caucus. Senators came to the Central Kitchen. Yeah. President Clinton came to the Central Kitchen, and they were discussing about how to end hunger in America. Right. As Secretary Glickman coming to my restaurant and my restaurant donating food to that NGO as an example of what good Samaritan law could do for feeding Americans. This was my early days where I saw the power of boots on the ground.

Grassroots organizations. Sure. Connected to the top levels of power. When you are able to bring both together, you have a chance that then good policy is a smart policy connected to the grassroots and what's happening in the cities and in the communities always has an opportunity to solve the problems we are facing. That was my early initiation, if you want, these issues of food and policy. So from that time, from like when you're 23 and this starts to, you know, you start to

learn about all this and take action. So even throughout your entire career of entrepreneurship and opening all these restaurants, this was always going on in some capacity. Always going on, going to Congress, sometimes with different organizations that they were pushing forward smart food policies through the Farm Bill to make sure that the school lunch will be increased so every children in America will have access to food. to food, to make sure that snaps, the food stamps, we are able to push new ways and creative ways so a family that is poor can spend the money in their local diner if they are working too much and they don't even have the energy or the place to feed their children. Start coming up with the smart ideas that were happening, but always pushing them all the way above.

Food deserts. Why we have Americans in the richest country in the East of mankind that they don't seem to have a supermarket 10 miles around. It's this type of things that I began, obviously, getting very, very interested, and I began connecting the dots. How about getting Americans to change their diet so they don't, you know, get garbage all the time? Well, I think that's what restaurants and chefs, we try to do. The most restaurants we have, that they empower communities and that they cook their food from scratch and that we connect to the local farmers.

America is the way we will feed America better. So you're saying that sometimes through the training that you did, you know, in the in Eggers organization, that some of those people ended up in the restaurant business, that people who were on the streets. Oh, yeah, many. Yeah, we this is Central Kitchen has graduated over two or three thousand people, which for a city of six hundred thousand is a very big number. which for a city of 600,000 is a very big number. And this organization did it almost to no cost to the city. It's a brilliant organization. Yeah, and that's where you learned your stuff. At the domestic city level, yes.

The issue of this book, Feeding Dangerously, was when I began getting very interested in, OK, this is Washington. This is what we can do in the city. This is how policy can be making the farm bill better and moving people out of poverty versus keeping people in poverty and helping the farmers and helping the families and helping everybody. And being there on the ground gave me this holistic view. That's why one day after watching for many years moments like New Orleans, what happened in the Superdome. I'm not even talking about all New Orleans. Oh, the flood.

And Katrina? Hurricane 5. Oh, yeah. Katrina, devastation, low nine, all the parts. How we left thousands of Americans at the Superdome, stranded, without food and water. And I began thinking like, oh my God, you know what an arena is? Everybody's wrong.

An arena is not a place that you go to watch music or your NBA or NFL team. An arena is a gigantic restaurant that entertains with sports and music. Yeah, a bar and restaurant. We were supposed to open some of the food stands there. We were supposed to bring some food. 10% of the population works in the restaurant business.

You only had to say, who is a cook? And you'll have probably a whole bunch of them. And within minutes, you are feeding the people. But no one thought that. Well, it didn't happen at the level and the people. But no one thought that. Well, it didn't happen at the level and at the response. We were supposed to overcome a very, very challenging hurricane that created mayhem with the water racing and above. And that's when one day after watching other events like this, I went to Haiti after the

earthquake in 2010 where hundreds of thousands of people perished in Pearl Prince, and many were left without home. And I landed there alongside people like Sean Penn, who did an amazing work creating almost a city out of the rubble in the middle of Pearl Prince, hosting

almost at one point close to 100,000 Haitians in the golf club. So, wow, what Sean Penn was doing was amazing. I learned about it once I landed. But me, I began my learning. How if I show up in these catastrophes, understanding that it's other humanitarian organizations

that technically they do food, but how cooks like me, we could be very precise using the local resources. That's the amazing thing. To do the quickest, fastest operation, bringing food and water to the people. And I learned that actually we are highly capable because we understand the system of food better than most. So that comes from the problem-solving part that you were seeing at the Superdome that wasn't being done. Because I found that to be fascinating in the story that you get to the place and you're like, where's the kitchen? Like, where's a kitchen?

You know, so the most practical thing is, is there a hotel that's not functioning but has a kitchen where we can cook 1,000 meals a day? Or 10,000. Or do we need just to bring the generator? And what is the food? In the food warehouses, usually. And if it's not, where do we bring it from? So, in Haiti, the first time you did it, this is before World Central Kitchen existed. Yeah, I created World Central Kitchen in the aftermath of Haiti. I went there with money in my pocket from friends and family.

And with that money, I just began. It's very good when you have money in the pocket. And you can deploy quick and fast in real time when you see the problem. But why that particular moment? You know, you've got a million restaurants, and you've got all this stuff going on. You've got a family. What is that moment where you're like, oh, my God?

Because the intensity was building of the need of me doing something like that. For you? The intensity within you? Within me. And it happens I was in Cayman Islands when Haiti hit. Yeah. I was with Anthony Bourdain and Eric Rippert. What were you doing?

Food festival drinking, amazing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Margaritas and piña coladas and having corn fritters on the beach. He's a good guy. I met that guy. I talked to that guy. I miss that guy, too. And then it's not too far away, Haiti from Cayman.

I'm right there. And I feel inside me this kind of burning need of saying, oh, my God, this is happening. I'm enjoying my life here and not too far away is this major, major disaster. And so I didn't go in that moment because still I had to go. I went back to Washington. I had to tell my partners. Yeah. Because, yeah, I had partnership, but I had to go to work and say, guys, I'm disappearing for a few days.

I need to go to do this. That's interesting because it was in this, you know, you're having a good time. And then the prime motivator was that, like, how can I be enjoying my life here? And, you know, and just right over there, it's chaos and disaster. Yeah, but it's not so much a sense of guiltiness as a sense of, I think I can do something.

But in order to do something, I need to start learning. Okay. And I'm not going to be learning watching on TV or reading a book. But you already had the experience with Egger's organization. Correct.

What was it? What's that called again? DC Center Kitchen. So you had the mental framework. You know, you had engaged it. And I was helping my father in the middle of the forest to make a fire in the middle of nowhere.

Within me, feeding like very much any cook and especially professional cooks. Yeah. You'll always find a way to light the fire. Yeah. You'll always find a way to gather the people who will help you. You'll always find a way to light the fire. You'll always find a way to gather the people

who will help you. You'll always find a way to gather the ingredients, and you'll find a way to deliver them. At the end, what we do at this, at Waltz and Drag Kitchen, is not really cooking. That's a natural in us. What really we do is that in emergencies,

what happens is that the distribution breaks. The infrastructure happens is that the distribution breaks. The infrastructure breaks and affects the distribution. And when you stop the distribution, it means you don't have cell signal because there's no electricity. You don't have light because there's no electricity. This begins creating chaos. Therefore, then it's destruction.

The roads are destroyed. The factories are destroyed. Then the tracks are destroyed, then it's destruction. Yeah. The roads are destroyed. Right. The factories are destroyed. Then the tracks are destroyed. And it's dangerous. So, and can be dangerous. There's lava. There's bullets. And people need to take care of themselves and their families.

Therefore, the infrastructure breaks because everybody's trying to take care of themselves. What World Central Kitchen does is rebuild an emergency distribution system. That this can happen through cars, walking, by mules or horses or camels, by helicopters, by boats, amphibious vehicles, seaplanes. That's what World Central Kitchen has done. That we go to the people. Yeah. We find the people and we make sure that we send them a message. We're here today, and we'll come back every day until things go better.

With some food. This is what we're doing right now. With some food. With food and water and sometimes medicines and often solar lights when there is need. But what did you learn in the first one? In the first one, you know, you go to Haiti and you realize that, you know, the supply chain or the capacity of relief organizations was limited and you had to figure out a way to work with everybody. Yeah. Well, I was very proud of the work that you guys did on the response in Haiti.

Yeah. But certain problems happen. Doing good is not good enough. Yeah. You must do a smart good. Because policy and the way humanitarian aid is given from rich countries to poorer countries, this is what happens. We usually send aid.

When we talk about food, we're not sending money. We're sending the extra production of food that we have in our own country. You could argue this is smart because you are buying from your own farmers, corn and soy and beans. And then they make a living and a profit. And you will say it's smart. And then that food, we send it to, let's say, a country like Haiti. But when a country like Haiti is mainly a rural country full of thousands, tens, hundreds of thousands of small farmers,

and you start pumping in huge amounts of food that is free, you start putting all those small farmers out of business. In the process of feeding the population that suffered the earthquake, we created another problem by putting them out of business 14 years ago. With free food. And that's why policy needs to be very holistic and very grounded on realities. And when you pass a bill, you don't create unforeseen consequences and other problems. That's why I'm asking that we need to have a national security food advisor. That's why I'm requesting that we need to have even a secretary of food. I mean, I think Secretary Bilsek is a great secretary of agriculture.

He served eight years under President Obama. He's now in the first term with President Biden. But I do believe that food is more than agriculture. Food is infrastructure. Food is national security. Food is defense. Food is health. Food is education. Food

is everything. So I'm asking that we need to be having a second look at how we see food. We are seeing it very, almost like it's non-important. But if we do a good use of food, we can be solving so many problems

in our communities today that right now we are not achieving more success because food is almost always like a second-class citizen within the policy. And also, you know, you forget, like I do, food is not finite. You know, food is grown.

You make food. There's always, you know, thankfully right now, there's plenty of food around. But at the same time, the conundrum is how is possible that the people that feed America or feed the world sometimes seems they cannot feed themselves. How do we have in... Well, that's a capitalism problem. How do we have... But I believe in capitalism.

Of course. But I do believe, like, everything has to be adapted and improved. Right. How it is possible that during the pandemic, we have 11 million undocumented, that actually those people were working. And if we were having food in our homes and delivered to our homes,

it was because somebody was waking up somewhere here in Salinas in California, picking up from early day morning potatoes and cabbage and broccoli, and then they were putting it in a truck, and then the truck was going to a warehouse, and then the warehouse was delivering it to the supermarkets,

and then somebody was delivering it to our house, and the people who were feeding America in the middle of the pandemic were 11 million and documented that still our government don't want to give them a path to belonging in what we will call the legal way. This is the consequences of not understanding how our food system works.

We take it for granted, but actually our food system works, we take it for granted. But actually, our food system sits on the shoulders of 11 million documented. We don't want them to be part of America. And it's not only a problem of America. Some of the people of the world that produce food are always on the edge of poverty and hunger. This is a conundrum we need to change. The people that feed the world cannot be that they seem are not able to fit themselves. Do you find that your passion for this, in retrospect, that when you became an American citizen, how important was that to you in your thinking?

Well, I was feeling American before I got my citizenship. I think passports belong into a place. It's a right you earn with your work, but also you understand how thankful you are to the people that are giving you the opportunity to belong to the place. I know where I come from. Everybody knows I love Spain, but I also know where I belong. And both things can live together.

I've been here more than 30 years in America. America, Washington is my community. It's a country where my three daughters were born. It's the role of every person to try to do whatever they can to improve their community. Can be picking up a piece of paper in the middle of the streets and put it on the garbage. This is a great way to keep already changing your community by keeping it clean. All the way to try to influence policy. We all play a role.

I do believe when you live somewhere, automatically you become citizen of that place, citizen of that tribe. The passport obviously make it legal. But when you are somewhere and you're working hard alongside others, in a way you are belonging. You know how many times somebody, immigration comes and they are undocumented workers in rural communities and some is a right and they pick some and they take them? Yeah. And then everybody, even people that are voting for people that don't want immigration reform and they want to kick out every immigrant, those same people began saying, oh, but he was a good guy.

I know him. He's been here 20 years. You see at the end, it's people in their communities, people helping people, people making people better. I know it's complex. We cannot allow open borders. Me, I'm a guy that every country, I believe,

has to have a certain level of connection. It's like you don't want anybody coming to your home, but at the same time we need to be feasible and smarter in a country like America that we need immigrants to keep growing our economy because our factories, our fishing boats, our oyster

shakers, crab pickers, farmers, they don't have enough hands. We need to be logical. If we need them, let's make sure that we welcome them in the right way. And treat them properly. Treat them as properly as everybody should deserve. Well, it's interesting what you say about community and about one-on-one. It's interesting what you say about community and about one-on-one, that what you think and what you believe, everything sort of shifts when you're face-to-face with somebody who you know that is on the other side of the policy that you're against. And that humanity is sort of what you want to win, right?

That's powerful, and you are right. The issue we face very often, everything is about the fight. Everything is about what you're thinking is no good. It's about bringing the other down. It's like a boxing match. It's ridiculous. A boxing match is sports. Policy, politics should be about coming together and making the smartest decisions together to improve whatever we are trying to fix. Out of respect for people.

Any people. That's what I think gets forgotten in all this garbage. That's why when I go to emergencies sometimes in the worst moments of humanity

is when I see the best of humanity. Right. There I don't see Republicans and Democrats. We go to plenty of states that you could argue is more leaning one side

or one leaning the other. It's just people helping people. It's whites. Without thinking. It's whites helping blacks. It's blacks helping one side or leaning the other. It's just people helping people. Without thinking. It's whites helping blacks. It's blacks helping whites. It's Muslims helping Jewish. It's Jewish helping Christians.

At the end, I don't care. It's just people helping people. Right. And this is what very often we forget when we have all these titles. Yeah. When you're this and you're that and you're this. Can we say humanity? But also ideas. When you're this and you're that and you're this. Can we say humanity? But also ideas

believing in humanity. That's right. Yeah, I hope that wins. So, you know, over the course of from the beginning of World Central Kitchen, you know, you do Haiti and then it's Puerto Rico and then it's... Well, we did Houston with Irma. Oh, that's right. For me is when I

also saw that I kept believing. I spent a lot of time in Haiti and we did a with Irma. Oh, that's right. For me, it's when I also saw that I kept believing. I spent a lot of time in Haiti, and we did a few programs. We did a school for women, a cooking school for women. We did some projects creating cleaner kitchens in the schools. For me, it was slowly but surely. Yeah. A small organization that we were having our food. Haiti was important.

But then some hurricane or earthquakes kept happening in Haiti. Our response began getting better. Even we were a very small team. The organization had two people. When something happened, we were able to bring other people and make us slightly bigger. But the big thing was really Houston, Irma. There I saw that, wow, food is always an afterthought.

A lot of things happened that I'll explain in another moment. But I was at Nice. I'm glad I was there. We opened a few kitchens, a few restaurants, one hospital, children's hospital. We were helping in the convention center. And then Maria happened. And there probably is the big moment of World Central Kitchen because they are, in a way, we became the bigger organization.

In a way, we went from 1,000 meals the first day to 150,000 meals a day. We went from one restaurant to 34 restaurants, 28 of them functioning at the same time. On top of that, 10 food trucks. We went from 10, 12 friends that we gathered the first day when I landed in a little restaurant in the middle of San Juan to thousands of volunteers. We reached over 4 million meals. That was the moment that we realized that it's not like we wanted to do good. It's like we had to do good. We got to do good.

Yeah, but also they were hung out to dry. They were left on their own because of that administration. And it felt like when I watched parts of the documentary that no one else was there. The truth is that more people were there than we thought. Yeah. Because, again, I think it's great people on, obviously, great people on FEMA with expertise. And actually, it was a convention center in San Juan with close to 2,000 people of FEMA. So it was not for lack of people with previous experiences.

But this is what happened. Puerto Rico was seen almost not like a part of America in the Caribbean. Puerto Rico almost was seen like an island that was there. Yeah. The destruction of the Hurricane 5 was beyond what anybody imagined. Yeah. The lack of electricity and gas in the early days was making decisions very complicated. And then is when I realized that the organization like us, we had the very simple idea.

Let's gather the cooks. Let's find the places. Let's gather the cooks. Let's find the places. Let's gather the generators. Let's find the food. We always know where to find the food. And let's start feeding and increasing the output of meals as quick as we can. The first places we went, hospitals. Why?

Because they need all the help they can get. The next places we began going, elderly homes. Why? Because these places are going to need our help. And from there, we began expanding into the most difficult to reach communities that they were the ones that needed us the most. In the process, it's not just the 4 million meals that World Central Kitchen was able to do this. It's that in a way, we were inspiring the community to do more. To say, you know, if nobody's coming to help you,

you are the one who's going to have to help your community. And many people will tell me months and years later that they love to see through social media what we were doing because this made everybody to say, let's raise up. Let's start doing whatever we can. And this is something that actually gave me even more pride than the feeding we were doing as an organization. The inspiration part. But Puerto Rico, without a doubt, was this big bang, big moment of saying, you know one thing?

Now we need to grow up. Because if we don't grow up, there's going to be a lot of people in emergencies that they are not going to be receiving the aid they should be getting. And we're not perfect. We're still learning. But that was a big learning curve there. That was a big bang for us. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it seems like facing climate change, this thing you're talking about, a food secretary of food,

in terms of global response and national response, it has to happen. Well, that's why I created the Global Food Institute in Washington. This began alongside when I began with my friend Ferran Adria and alongside some professors teaching at Harvard about physics and food. This one, for me, I saw the power of universities to reach to the young, which are going to be the ones leading the future. Yeah. And I realized that Washington had to be the place.

And with my early understanding how policy connecting with grassroots organizations, we could do very good change. We needed to start talking about putting food in the middle and seeing how food touches everything. Yeah. talking about putting food in the middle and seeing how food touches everything. Food, it seems, is the problem, but food is energy because we're using food now to make ethanol. We're using corn to make ethanol. Food is defense. Remember the school lunch in a way happened because generals in 1947,

they needed soldiers to join the ranks of the military. But the American young boys coming from rural America, they were unfit because they were very skinny and sometimes on the edge of hunger. School lunch happened because the military. But also food is the environment. The way we produce food sometimes is creating more problems. And we can do better because we have the science to produce food better without damaging and increasing the greenhouse gases that they are increasing the temperature of

planet Earth. Food is health. Food is hunger. Food is obesity. Food is economy. You can grow economies if you have a good plan to produce food that enriches everybody in the process of producing that food, from the farmers all the way to the waiters and the cooks.

At the end, the Global Food Institute is going to be this place where we're going to bring the best of the best from government, from private sector, from NGOs, scientists, that will come up with the best practices and the best policies, not only for America, but for countries on the world. In the process of feeding the world, we cannot become poorer. In the process of feeding the world, we cannot become unhealthier. In the process of producing food, we cannot be the live millions hungry. Is better ways?

I hope the Global Food Institute in the years to come will create the generation of young leaders that when they get to the positions of power in the private sector, in the government, will make smart decisions. I was very happy that President Biden did the White House Food Conference. The first one in 51 years, the last one in 69, President Nixon. Many great things came out of that conference by President Nixon, believe it or not. I was very proud that President Biden took the initiative to push Susan Rice at the White House and the whole of government to create a food conference. In this case, not for the world, but just how do we keep improving the good ideas that are on the table, how we bring new ideas that can improve the food systems of America. Well, are we going to be increasing increasing school lunches or not to America? Are we going to be increasing ways to use SNAP, which is what we call the food stamps?

So instead of only buying food in a supermarket, why this cannot be used to buy in a local diner? It also seems like there is a shipping and internet infrastructure, you know, in place in the private sector that can get food almost anywhere. Sometimes it's expensive, but at the same time, when it's needed, like in an emergency in New York and other cities in America, elderly were receiving food from us with the help of Uber and Lyft drivers that had no jobs. And we were connecting the restaurants. Instead of creating an infrastructure of delivery that we had to create from zero,

we were smart, used to do it without having to reinvent it. In Spain, in Madrid, we were using the Spanish postal service to deliver to all the elderly. In the morning, they will deliver the mail, and then the volunteers, they will come to some of the kitchens we had in Madrid because they knew the routes. They will pick up, depends each one, they will pick up the foods to the specific elderly because sometimes they live in high rises or they didn't have any help, whatever was the issue. But they knew who they were. And they will go home by home.

And we were delivering tens of thousands of meals to elderly homes during the pandemic. You see, always trying to use the system to our benefit where one plus one becomes three. How's that changed, though? Because now you've expanded the operations to war zones. This almost happened. I read sometimes, you know, if you read more about Clara Barton, that is a woman that was part of the flying hospitals during the Civil War. Yeah. There was a woman that created the missing soldiers office trying to see what happened to the soldiers that perished or somehow nobody knew where they were.

And she was able to find what happened to those people so the families could have a closing. And she's the woman that founded the American Red Cross. And the Red Cross was always in times of peace, which is what we've been doing, times of peace emergencies. But then Red Cross was in times of war. For me, I mentioned in Clara Barton, because something happened around 97,

that the house and the office of Clara Barton, while in D.C., was across the street from Jaleo, my first restaurant on 7th and E. Yeah. And to me, to have her house, almost her spirit, across the street, was kind of very amazing. My mom is a nurse. My father was a nurse. She was a nurse. But it's fine. She's a nurse.

And during Congress, was under siege, and she was bringing food to Congress. So for me, in a way, that was an inspiration. I cannot believe now that over the last two, three years, even, we've been in some complicated places with some guerrilla in Venezuela and Colombia. Tough situations. But I will not say war, but, you know, nonetheless. But Ukraine was like the big one. We didn't go to Ukraine to fit inside. We went to fit in the border

because there was millions of refugees living in Ukraine. But before we knew, within days, we were inside Ukraine. This has become our biggest operation. Because Ukraine, we were almost in seven countries at one point, feeding refugees, Ukrainian refugees. But when we went in, we began with a few thousand meals a day. We put together a team of 550 restaurants. We had thousands and thousands of volunteers working with us in Ukraine. We reached 1.5

million meals in between hot meals and bags of food where there was no supermarkets. A day, we reached over 250 million meals in Ukraine in the early nine months of the Ukrainian war. We were the organization. Why? Because we are quick, we are fast. And because people see what we do, they support us.

And because their support, we're able to deploy those funds quick and fast. Because when you talk about food and you talk about water, the emergency of now is yesterday. Ukraine is a country that exports food. Don't misunderstand me. The question will be, but Jose, if they export food, because they produce a lot, why World Central Kitchen was there? I mentioned before, because the infrastructure was broken, because the factories were closed, because everybody was escaping the horrors of the war.

It's like the normal system of society stopped. Right. War Central Kitchen came to reignite, restart the distribution system until things, still it's a war, but we gave the time to the Ukrainian people to live under war that, or they are too poor or too sick or too old to say, I'm leaving, or because they are behind taking care of the dogs and they cannot take them with them. It's a whole bunch of reasons why people will be near front lines, but that's why for us it's still an emergency, and we are there next to those people that at least they only hope they receive

that the war will end one day that we are showing up every day or every week to bring food and water so this is not one of the many issues they're facing. So is this your whole life now or are you still running the restaurants? No, I'm obviously very follow the teams through WhatsApp.

I always know. You know, in the last two years, I spent close to 130 days, 140 in Ukraine alone. And I spent another 30 days in between Turkey and Syria. I just came back from Acapulco where we've done an amazing job. I think we're close to do 200,000 meals a day in a city of 1 million. What about Gaza? We've been, I just came from a meeting,

we've reached 2 million meals inside Gaza because we've been there three years in partnership with an organization called Anera. And I'm not a very big friend of partnerships because sometimes it's too much talking and not too much doing. But Anera is great. They are medical mainly. They've been there 50 years in gaza so they know gaza very well and

when they began needing some help three years ago because all the things between hamas and israel we began helping them happens we had warehouses happened we had some kitchens that we were hiring and activating to feed people yeah and i cannot believe we've been able to do close to 400,000, half a million hot meals, buying fish from the local fishermen. Now that we ran out of all the meat we had in the warehouses, but buying all the fruits and vegetables that we could from the local farmers. Much of what we were serving was produced in Gaza. Even now we are running low, but we had rice in the warehouses.

So I kind of believe that World Central Kitchen, with Anera, we've been able to do 3 million meals in the last 30 days. Unbelievable. Where does the money come from? People, sometimes World Central Kitchen, it's not like we look what we have in the bank. It's like a private business. When I want to open a restaurant, it's not like look what we have in the bank. It's like a private business. When I want to open a restaurant, it's not like I have the money in the bank.

I put some of the money. I do the business plan. I sign a lease. And when everything is done, I go to, hey, who wants to invest? And you hope that you will get the investors because if not, you're losing all that initial early investment you did. So it's philanthropic money from big investors? The vast majority of the donations we receive, I will say, I don't follow this closely,

probably the people in Walt's Central Kitchen that work on this will know better, but if I'm not wrong, 80% of the money that Walt's Central Kitchen receives that we are able to operate is people that donate $50 or less. So we are a very grassroots organization. Is it a nonprofit? It's a nonprofit.

C01C3 or whatever. What's the website? Worldcentralkitchen.org. Yeah. So anybody can donate. We're in Egypt right now. We went also to Israel because it was the right thing to do because many communities were devastated by the Hamas attack.

We are obviously in Lebanon. We are also in Jordan. We are in Lebanon because Hezbollah is also in a fight attacking Israel, and Israel obviously is attacking back, but then that means that you have people that they are moving. We are in Armenia because people are even unaware. A big refugee problem. A survey, yeah, and kick out 120,000 Armenian descent citizens.

And we've been feeding very much all of them. So that's another war zone we could argue we are part of. And this was fascinating because World Central Kitchen is like the gift that keeps on giving in terms of family. We have this woman, Aline, a fascinating chef. I met her in Beirut after the big explosion

destroyed half of that city. And Aline was looking at the port when the explosion happened. Yeah. And she almost lost an ear and her... But within hours after she came back from the hospital, she opened her restaurant and began to use feed in the street.

By that moment, our teams were landing in Beirut. I landed like 48 hours later. And she was very much the first restaurant we partnered with. We put more than 10 restaurants around Beirut, and we were doing tens of thousands of meals a day. Alim became a friend. Alin became this leader cooking with her entire head with Band-Aid. But Alin, who is Armenian, Lebanese-Armenian,

she's now the one helping us lead our response in Armenia. You see, this is the gift that keeps on giving. Yeah, yeah. That's why I did this book. Not so much for the ego of, let me show you in a comic book, like we're superheroes. But this is a book that in a way

is the one that keeps telling the stories of before. So the new people that keep joining us, they understand that they are coming to an organization that has a very bright light, that we are going to be successful. not because we are smart and cool, but because it's amazing people that always keep joining us that makes the organization better. And from when you started World Central Kitchen,

over this arc of time, you've put in infrastructure and procedures and methods, and now it's all laid out. So when something goes on somewhere, even if people, if you have one person, what you're saying, that knows how to do it, then all of a sudden you've got, you know, 10, 20, 30, 100, 500 people that will know how to do it within a week. We are not perfect because we're still very young. Yeah. And it's hard because I don't want, I don't think we need to have a plan that we always need to adapt.

Yeah. And sometimes adaptation can be hard for some people. And so we are all in the, including me. For you. I'm still in the business of learning how to adapt. When I go back every day and I go to join the teams in a mission, especially if I'm on the ground. Yeah. But even if I'm not and I'm watching from the outside,

and I try to whisper when I think maybe it's a better decision, you realize that it's nothing like boots on the ground because the people are there on paper, know best, and it's a gut feeling and a gut instinct. Well, I appreciate all the work you're doing, and thanks for talking to me. Thank you for having me. What happens now today? Going back to my restaurant. Today, World Central Kitchen is

doing kind of a party to fundraise, but more than anything, thank many people that have been supporting us for many years. Oh, that's nice. And this is happening. I'm going to go. And as soon as this happens,

I fly to Tucson because I have a little talk in a university there. And as soon as I finish, I'm back in Acapulco Wednesday night or Thursday morning to join the teams that they are doing amazing,

amazing work in that difficult situation. So that's where you're going to go in a few days? Yeah. Ukraine, I will go back probably between now and Christmas. Do you take any time for yourself? Well, this is time.

This is fun. This is no work. I'm going to go now for a quick bite. I take time. I celebrate Thanksgiving. I celebrate... And you make the good turkey. Christmas, I make damn good turkey.

Yeah. All right. Yeah, I always the good turkey. Christmas, I make damn good turkey. Yeah. All right. Yeah, I always make good turkey. And if it's not me, I know the people that make turkey better than me. Okay, good. All right, great talking to you, Chef. Happy Thanksgiving. You too.

That is quite a story, am I right? What an honor to talk to Chef Jose. The graphic novel Feeding Dangerously is now available wherever you get books. $5 of every book sold goes directly to World Central Kitchen. Hang out for a minute. It's winter, and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost almost anything. So no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats. But meatballs, mozzarella balls, and arancini balls?

Yes, we deliver those. Moose? No. But moose head? Yes. Because that's alcohol, and we deliver that too. Along with your favorite restaurant food, groceries, and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly.

Product availability varies by region. See app for details. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category,

and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Okay, for full Marin listeners, if you liked last week's John Wilson episode, there was more talk about how to with John Wilson on the Friday show with Chris and Brendan. I used to have this problem with The Simpsons too. There were certain episodes of The Simpsons that start out one way and they just zag to a completely different spot and there would be times where i remember there was this one time i was talking with somebody about the trampoline episode right

where they get a trampoline in the back of the yard and it like everyone gets injured and they're finally like you got to get rid of the trampoline he tries to give it back to crusty and crusty like points a shotgun at him he's like you keep moving i spent hours it could have been days this was like pre like the instant availability of like a like a wikipedia page on every episode of the simpsons that i was like what the fuck episode is that trampoline on i just could not come up with it i bet you can't come up with it can you remember where the trampoline goes to no it's impossible ultimately it's the one where albert brooks plays a self-help guy and he's like you know just a shitty um tony robbins type of motivational speaker and bart makes a mockery of him at the, at the event. And he's like, why'd you do that? And Bart's like, I do what I feel like. And then he starts

that whole movement. He's like, it's the do what you feel like movement. Oh my God. That's that episode. That's yeah. I, I've, I've remembered those Simpsons episodes being like having that same conversation with someone else being like, holy shit how did they get from point a to point b right well now that's the problem I have with how to with John Wilson where I cannot remember what the the name of the episode like if I want to tell somebody to go watch it I'm like oh yeah you got to watch this one where it winds up at like a referee bylaws meeting how do you get there again yeah i'm looking at the titles i'm like is it like how to clean your pants i don't know i can't remember for bonus episodes twice a week including a new ask mark anything episode tomorrow sign up for the full marin just click on the link in the episode description

or go to WTFpod.com and click on WTF Plus. I love the tone of this guitar, my new Telecaster and my old amp. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. ¶¶ Boomer lives, monkey and Lafonda, cat angels everywhere.