WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1490 - Elliott Caine

Episode Date: November 23, 2023

When Marc was living in Highland Park, he found out something interesting about his neighborhood optometrist. Not only was this man an eye doctor, he was an accomplished jazz trumpeter. Marc welcomes Dr. Elliott Caine to the garage to find out how a Midwestern Jewish kid stayed on parallel tracks throughout his life, one fulfilling a career pursuit, one fulfilling his musical passion. Also, Marc delivers his annual Thanksgiving pep talk from Florida. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

You can get anything you need with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats. But meatballs and mozzarella balls, yes, we can deliver that. Uber Eats. Get almost, almost anything. Order now. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. Be honest. When was the last time you thought about your current business insurance policy?

If your existing business insurance policy is renewing on autopilot each year without checking out Zensurance, you're probably spending more than you need. That's why you need to switch to low-cost coverage from Zensurance before your policy renews this year. Zensurance does all the heavy lifting to find a policy, covering only what you need. And policies start at only $19 per month. So if your policy is renewing soon, go to Zensurance and fill out a quote. Zensurance. Mind your business. Lock the gates! soon go to zensurance and fill out a quote zensurance mind your business all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fuck nicks what's happening what the fuck duckins how's that thanksgivingy

what's happening how are you where are we at are you listening have you ducked away are you are you at your people's house are you at a house that you don't want to be at have you been taken to a house by somebody you love and you're doing it because it's your turn to do it this year to go to the other house what's happening are you alone are you just hanging around by yourself telling yourself i don't care about holidays but there's nothing open and i can't do anything but sit and reflect sit and stew sit and be sad. What have you done? Are you watching the dog show? What are you doing? Are you freaking out? Are you fucked up already? Are you locked in the room you grew up in? Where are you? Where are you at? What's going on? Are you yelling? Are you with somebody who's yelling?

Is there yelling going on? Is somebody making a bad dish that they make every year and you just suck it up and eat it? Are you cooking? Where are you at? How are the kids? What time is it? Do you know where your children are? Remember that ad?

They used to come on, on TV, back when there was only three stations, just a priest sitting uncomfortably, awkwardly at a desk or something. It's 11.30, parents. Do you know where your children are? It's 10 o'clock, parents. Do you know where your children are? I am in Florida and I am punchy. You know the word punchy? I'm a little, look I got back from Denver I was home for a day I got back on Sunday on Monday I spent half a day moving towards driving to and then talking to Albert Brooks which you'll hear on Monday and then I got my shit together but I paced myself out I was surprised I I'm usually

filled with a certain amount of dread just when I have to travel these days I don't know why but I flew down here on Tuesday morning on JetBlue and I sprung for the mint and they gave me a nice vegan meal and I got here at like eight at night and I'm just I lock in I've got to conceive of the dinner before I get into it. And I've made this dinner before. Obviously, many of you know. But this year, I'm vegan, which is fine. I'm not bragging. I don't give a shit what you do.

But when I lock into something, I'm going to stay locked in until the day comes where I don't. But right now, I'm locked in. I figured out that I can make almost everything vegan outside of the stuffing that everybody likes, the turkey, the turkey gravy, obviously. Other than that, all vegan. This is going to be a smaller crew than usual. My aunt passed away a few months ago. My mother's sister. I haven't seen my cousins or my uncle since that happened. I figured there'd probably be a little bit of a wait in the air, but I'm happy I came. I felt like I should come. I've enjoyed cooking so far, but then again, I haven't sweat much. My mother and I aren't

fighting. Her dog has diarrhea and is doing that around the house. I don't know if it's for me, but having sick animals. Her boyfriend, John, who many of you know from me talking about him here on the podcast or on bits, is still himself. There's still a lot going on in the house that's unnecessary. My mother just had to change her clothes to take a ride to go pick up some paper plates and things. And John was, you know, I had four minutes to wait and I'm just cooking. He goes, tell your mother, tell Toby that I'm going to be outside. I'm going to be outside pruning the bush on the other side of the house. Tell her I'm going to be pruning the bush. And I'm like, okay, all right, out on this side. Okay, John, I'll be out here, okay, that went on for a while,

but then there's, you know, it's almost a gift in a way that the dog is shitting all over the house, because it gives him something to focus on and clean up, there's nothing that he likes more than to clean up, I watched him eat a pomegranate today, it was very exciting, my mother has a flipping through reels problem. I think she's on Instagram, just sits in her chair and flips through reels and watches them almost like hypnotized. It's all right, I guess, right? We haven't talked much, her and I, since I got here, but everything seems copacetic. Again, there's a heaviness in the air, and there's the severe reality that, you know, these are older people. Now, again, many of you have been through this stuff. I'm fortunate to have my parents still alive. I'm 60 years old.

They had me when they were 12. Not really. But she's still alive and John's kicking along. They're clearly aging. But I don't know. It's given me some other way to look at this experience. And I don't even know if it's intentional. As I come down here, I think about my parents, my parents' inappropriateness, whatever trauma they caused me, however they wired me in the way that I've been kind of emotionally hobbled and self-esteem-wise hobbled. But I don't know. It's not that it goes away, but after a certain point, I don't know. What the fuck difference does it make? But here's my other revelation is that I'm going to have Thanksgiving here, and I'm not going to make it about me. I imagine that at most gatherings, someone's making it about themselves, and I imagine that some gatherings are problematic because there's a competition between two to five people who would like to make the day about them.

And that causes a lot of resentment and patterns, and I get it. But I'm just here, you know, I like to do the cooking. I'm excited that the leftovers are going to be mostly vegan so I can actually eat them without the same amount of disgust and shame the next day. You know, come the second or third day of eating turkey and stuffing leftovers filled with, you know, butter and fat, you know, it's almost like, you know, when you feel kind of crappy after you eat or you're tired or whatever you feel, generally for me, it's not good almost ever. But on Thanksgiving specifically, that, you know, that just keeps going keeps going you know however you manufacture your

leftovers for the next few days but that's not going to be an issue but i guess my point is is that i know that generally what i say on this day is that if you need to take a walk take a walk if you need to pull out of a conversation pull pull out of a conversation. Use whatever you have at your disposal to maintain your sanity. Whatever means, whatever methods you have at your disposal to maintain your sanity without hurting yourself or others. Try not to engage in emotional abuse. And if you can stand up for yourself, try not to take any. but sometimes you got to suck that up. Sometimes it's hard to deflect or protect yourself, but it's only a couple of days, right? But it all stands, folks. It all stands. If you want to take a walk before you blow your stack, take a walk. And another thing, if the dish didn't come out right, fuck it. It's Thanksgiving,

everyone will understand, and just pick the top off or throw it away or make them eat it and pretend like they like it. But try to take care of yourself, but also realize that who knows what the future holds, environmentally, politically. And I know there's political problems, but we're starting to realize at this point with family members and people that have lost their minds or are no longer the people we know that that's the way they are now. Maybe if their beliefs come to pass politically, they can all laugh or when they see how awful it is, they can all laugh or uh or when they see how awful it is they can all feel bad as they uh watch their uh college-aged um transgender progressive children being thrown in

trucks but you know maybe grandchild you know what maybe maybe that's too harsh i what i'm saying is all that stuff none of it fucking matters in the way that you know you're at thanksgiving you know who not to talk to you know who not to engage but at least try to realize that nothing is good almost anywhere and that uh if you can somehow appreciate the fact that the people you're with, you love them, you care about them, or you used to love them. You know, figure it out and try to accept it. Because the bottom line is, who the fuck knows what's going to happen?

It's probably not going to be great. Happy Thanksgiving. Happy Thanksgiving. Acceptance. How's that? But also appreciation, if you can. If you can find it in you, even for the ones that have turned, try. Happy Thanksgiving. I'll be doing a live talk with Cliff Nesteroff about his new book, Outrageous, at the New York Public Library on Wednesday, November 29th. It's a free event, and you can go in person or watch the live stream. Go to nypl.org slash events. My Los Angeles dates.

I'm at Dynasty Typewriter on December 1st, 13th, and 28th. The Elysian on December 6th, 15th, and 22nd. And Largo on December 12th and January 9th. I heard a rumor that Ellen DeGeneres might want to do a spot on my show in January. Then in 2024, I'm in San Diego at the Observatory North on Saturday, January 27th for two shows. San Francisco at the Castro Theater on Saturday, February 3rd. On February 4th, I'll be hosting McCabe and Mrs. Miller at the Roxy Theater in San Francisco. Go find that. Portland, Maine at the State Theater on Thursday, March 7th. Medford, Massachusetts outside Boston at the Chevalier Theater on Friday, March 8th. Providence, Rhode Island at the Strand Theater on Saturday, March 9th. And Tarrytown, New York at the Tarrytown Music Hall on Sunday, March 10th.

Go to wtfpod.com slash tour for tickets. Ooh, man, right? So look, folks, who's on the show today? Dr. Elliot Cain. Dr. Elliot Cain is on the show today. Now, how do I want to preface this? Now, I've talked about this guy before. Dr. Elliot Cain is my opt show today. Now, how do I want to preface this? Now, I've talked about this guy before. Dr. Elliot Kane is my optometrist. He's got a practice in Highland Park. It's got a ham

painted front sign. It's a very cozy office he's got there on York, and he's got jazz records in the windows. And I remember I got referred to him maybe by the ladies I buy glasses from over at Society of Spectacle. But I went to this guy and he was a character. He talks like a jazz guy, you know, and he's like, yeah, man, yeah, man. Yeah, yeah. And it turns out he's a jazz trumpeter. And he was pretty serious about it. And he's still pretty serious about it. And he plays gigs. I went to see him twice.

He's done session work around town. He's still locked into the jazz thing. But ultimately, he's my optometrist. But I thought this would be an interesting episode. I don't usually do this type of episode. So, you know, I finally got around to doing it. He's an Indianapolis Jew jazz trumpeter, and he comes up around a lot of jazz. And it was an interesting sort of look back into the world of the 60s, look back into the world of the 60s, into the jazz world of Indianapolis, into just a life,

you know, making that decision. Some of us make in our lives to kind of sideline our dreams, to have a little bit of security with the hope that we still pursue those dreams. Sometimes those dreams stay paramount in our minds as the priority, but they just don't have the space needed to be that. But nonetheless, you do it. You go at it. And this guy's a serious jazz bow, man. Now, a couple of things. We talk a lot, and I mentioned Ben Sidron. Now, Ben Sidron is a jazz pianist that I've had on the show years ago. He's also a jazz historian and a great guy. He's out of Madison. Ben Sidron, a lot of records, a lot of books. Also, another thing I want to clear up, or at least set up, we both mentioned Mark mark summers from the

nickelodeon show double dare and the food network who i've had on is a he's a character but he mentioned to me when i talked to him that he grew up with elliot kane dr kane and uh elliot kane dr kane calls him mark berkowitz and he was like he. And he was on my show and they mentioned each other. And I just want to get those things out there before you listen to it. So it's not confusing. Sometimes we get going or I get going with a guest and we just go, man. But that's sort of the lowdown on Elliot Cain. And to me, as somebody who's like sort of an aspiring jazz appreciator, and that's a deep rabbit hole, I just wanted to see how it would go. Like, he's my optometrist, man.

You know what I'm saying? You can go to elliottcain.com that's elliott with two l's and two t's and cane c-a-i-n-e you can check out his work and his future gigs there he plays around town he plays in highland park sometimes and this is me talking to my jazz optometrist, Dr. Elliot Cain. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer.

I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Death is in our air. This year's most anticipated series, FX's Shogun, only on Disney+.

We live and we die. We control nothing beyond that. An epic saga based on the global best-selling novel by James Clavel. To show your true heart is to risk your life. When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive. FX's Shogun, a new original series streaming February 27th exclusively on Disney+. 18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. Want to wear the headphones? Sure.

Do it. Like you're recording a record. Right. I'm overdue, way overdue. When was the last one? I think I had the last one on CD. The last CD I had was, yeah, Hippie Chicks on Acid, which was 2011. Yeah.

I've written some new tunes lately. It's just time, man. I needed to clone myself, you know? Yeah, sure. Yeah, man. Where are you playing, though? Where's the weekly gig?

Okay, it just, just one of them just ended today. I got noticed today. What do you mean you got noticed? A premature ending? Well, I've been there

for 15 months, a year and three months. It's at the Roosevelt, Hollywood Roosevelt. And what they did is they redid the restaurant. It had been one of those Nancy Silverton restaurants.

Fancy? Yeah, right. And they made it more like a, I think they're making it more like a, what do you call it, a bistro type of thing. And the wall that separates the lobby where I play is, I think, is gone or a lot of it's gone. And so the sound, it's too loud for the diners, apparently. Coming through. That's what I heard. The director called me this morning, just this morning,

told me they had a duo playing the other night, guitar and bass maybe, and that was too loud. And my group's a four-piece group with me on trumpet, then piano, bass, drums. But I'm at the York this Sunday. I have my monthly gig at the York. How long has that been going on for? Except for like a year of the pandemic, it's been going on since probably about 2015.

That's where I kind of knew you were a musician, was at the York. I mean, I can't remember exactly when I got hip to you as a musician, but I think I went to you as an optometrist first. I think so. I remember seeing you at the York with some lady friend of yours, man. Sure. And that was before we were just setting up. Yeah.

So I got the gig at the York, usually every third Sunday. Yeah. And then I play a trio gig at a little dive bar in Long Beach called the Wrigley Tavern. That's a drive? It's a schlep. Yeah, it's a drive. But it's every Saturday night, and it's not a high-paying gig.

We get tips. That makes it a decent. We get pretty good tips there. So it's just me, guitar, and bass. I'm just playing jazz standards. And my thing there, as well as has been at Roosevelt, is I memorize everything. I'm really, I hate to see cats, decent musicians,

their noses buried, just a simple effing chart. So you memorize the classics. Yes. So when you riff, you riff. Oh, yeah, yeah. You just talk. It was funny because I, you know, I knew I was going to talk to you. And you know who Ben Sidren is?

Yes. Sure. So because I figure, you know, I'd hit up, I'd text Ben because he's in, where is he? He's in Minnesota, right? Oh, okay. Yeah, he's up in, he's in, no, he's in Wisconsin. He's in Madison. That's where Ben is.

Okay. So I figured, like, and he came up around that area. He came up in Chicago. I figured maybe he'd know Elliot Kane from Indianapolis. The great Jasmine from Indianapolis. Right. And he said, so, I said, do you know Elliot Kane? He says, I checked Elliot out. Dig his bent tone and the Bruno vibe.

Oh. Not hip to him, but some of his tunes sound a bit like Blakey, right? Yeah, right. I'm definitely influenced by the Jazz Messengers. Lee Morgan, you know. Yeah, we talked about Lee Morgan. But, like, let's go back, though, because I talked to a guy you grew up with. Oh, Mark.

Yeah. Mark Berkowitz. Mark Summers. Mark Berkowitz, yeah. Yeah. And I was so thrilled that, you know, he knew you. It was a Oh, Mark. Yeah. Mark Berkowitz. Mark Summers. Mark Berkowitz. Yeah. Yeah. And I was so thrilled that, you know, he knew you. It was a trip, man. And that they're like, because look, I grew up in New Mexico, right?

So that's like, you kind of knew the Jews. Right. You know? Exactly. And I know there was like a swath of sort of upper Midwestern Jews that came over at some time, you know, like Dylan is a you know he's a minnesota jew right and i knew there were but what was the scene in indianapolis not not musically but jew wise when you were coming up jew well i came up in the 1960s you know and uh i the neighborhood i grew up

and was not particularly a so-called Jewish neighborhood. What business was your dad in? He had a little drugstore downtown Indianapolis. Okay. It was next door. First, Catacorner, but then it eventually became, he moved it a half block. It was next door to a burlesque parlor. Sure. And on the other side of my dad's little drugstore was a bar called Frida's Golden Nugget.

And so I was raised in kind of a, I'll call it a waspy neighborhood. A few Jewish families, mostly not, definitely all white. Indiana wasps. Yeah, which is another story too.

You know, Dan Quayle. Sure, Mike Pence. Mike Pence, oh, another wonderful. I saw your routine, by the way, with Mike Pence. I thought it was excellent. Thank you. Yeah. Anyway, so I used to help my dad starting like age seven or eight.

I used to, at underage, selling liquor. I knew all the wine. I knew all the liquor. Yeah. Cigarettes. Cigarettes. I used to sell for 28 cents a pack, by the way, cigarettes. 28, man.

Back in the 60s, yeah. And so, and I met a much wider demographic, let's say, you know, different people of different nationalities, different skin colors. Because of the neighborhood. Because of the neighborhood. It was two blocks from the bus station, downtown Indianapolis. Oh, wow. So he sold, like, so it was more of a, like, he sold everything. It was a drugstore, but, you know, they had what?

You know, liquor and food and cigarettes. But not so much food, maybe ice cream. You know, it was a one-man drugstore, one person, and I would help him, and you'd see... The characters. The characters from the bottom of society to the local celebrities, let's say, you know, and some of the people who were who were down and out winos were the most interesting people for me. Well, yeah, I mean, it's like it's interesting when you're a kid.

Like my grandfather owned a hardware store in New Jersey, in like a little town in New Jersey. And there were these guys. There were like these five old men that used to just hang around the hardware store talking. And, you know, as a kid, I just, you know, there's something about these guys where you're like, how did it happen? What's, why is he like that? I want to talk to him. And I was always kind of attracted to those guys to hear what they had to say or where

they'd been. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's interesting stuff. Like there'd be a number, a few guys. I remember their names too. One guy.

Oh, of course, man. There were two black guys. One guy's name was Yakey, and the other was Dennis. Yakey. Yakey. And there would be the pawn shops there, which were owned by our fellow Yids. Yeah. And they would pick up some Yiddish.

So they would talk to my dad. They'd throw Yiddish phrases at my dad, you know, these guys. They were, you know, unfortunately, they were winos. They had issues, man, you know. Yakey was throwing around some Yiddish. Oh, yeah, yeah. You know, bismakstu, baby, you know, this kind of stuff. And I would go to lunch at some restaurants.

Actually, an uncle of mine owned a restaurant a few blocks away. And on the way there, there was an abandoned storefront that was occupied by gypsies. And when I walked past them, I'd be 10 years old or whatever, and this woman, she would, come here, little boy, I'll tell you a fortune. And so my dad said, you never go in there. You never go in there.

And so this is what year, early 60s? Early to late 60s, yeah. In your teens then? Yeah, yeah, mid-60s. So your folks spoke Yiddish in the house? A bit when they didn't want me to understand. Right. Where were they from? My father was originally from Lafayette, Indiana, and his immigrant family, his older siblings were from Europe.

And then my mother was from Indianapolis. They were from an immigrant family from, you don't know where, in Eastern Europe? Yeah, I know. My father's family was from the Ukraine near the Polish border. Yeah. And my mother's- Galicia? Yes.

I would say it was probably, it was never said that way, but his Yiddish was different than my mother's Yiddish. My mother's family was from near Kiev. Uh-huh. Yeah, I got that. I'm from there. That half my mother's line's Ukraine, Poland kind of trip. Yeah, yeah. A place where you don't want to be right now. No. Yeah, yeah. But it's interesting how those borders have changed. I found out a lot about that stuff, about where they came from, because that guy had me on that show, that Finding Your Root show. Oh, Far Out. Yeah, man.

He's from Harvard, right? Yeah, yeah. Professor Gates. That's right. Yeah, it's an interesting show. I didn't know you were on that, man. Yeah, I mean, they tracked it all the way back, man. I don't know how they do that, man.

They got people. Yeah. I mean, they put the money in. I don't know how they—someone goes and checks those records. It's kind of wild. That's a fascinating show to me. Yeah, yeah. Both your folks are Jewish?

Oh, yeah. Soccer's high citizens. Yeah. Well, what was the scene, though, in terms of Jews? It was because, like – I mean, Indiana's pretty white. Yeah. In Indianapolis, I've spent some time there. Yes, I do know that from last.

Yeah. Yeah, the guy interviewed me, by the way, from the public radio station there. He did? Because what did I? Kind of long. Did I turn him on to you or what? Yeah. Well, he turned him on to me and he got curious about me and looked me up.

Yeah. And he said that you did a good imitation of me. But it was a little strange. I mean, I had to deal with some stuff growing up. Yeah? Yeah, yeah. I got in some fights. I got beat up one time, I remember.

Yeah. And one time I beat some kid who was younger. We were on the school bus coming home, and he wouldn't shut up with the Jew shit. I said, okay, let's get off. He wanted to fight. I knocked this fool down. I kind of left it there because I didn't want to really hurt him. I just wanted to say, shut up.

Stand up for yourself. Yeah, yeah. But was there a big Jewish community? You know, me and Mark Berkowitz. There was maybe, Indianapolis, maybe 8,000 Jews, I would guess, growing up. And a fair percentage were actually Sephardic. Oh, yeah? Yeah, the prettiest girls were Sephardic girls.

Yeah, always. Yeah, always did. I was brought up Re girls. Yeah. Always. Yeah, always did. Some of my, I was brought up Reformed. Yeah, yeah. And some of my parents. That existed then. Oh, yeah, yeah. There was Reformed.

There was Reformed and in, you know, the. So you could play jazz in the temple. Yeah, you could actually. That happened. I didn't do it. Yeah. But Mark Berkowitz's older brother. Yeah.

And my older brother one time played. His older brother is a brother and my older brother one time played. His older brother is a drummer, and my older brother played piano. How many siblings you got? I have one older brother and a younger sister. When do you start? Like, it's the 60s, right? Yeah. How old are you in, like, 69?

In October, I turned 18. All right, so it's all happening. It's hard. I didn't know jazz. I loved playing trumpet, like band music, orchestra music. When did you start doing that? Oh, when I was probably 11 in sixth grade. Okay.

Yeah. But the world, the country's coming apart at the seams. Right. 69. You feel that? Oh, big time. Well, we're liberal. My parents were liberals.

Sure. I radicalized in college. I mean, I was ace. I got into Marxism big time. What college? Indiana U, Indiana University. Okay, so that was happening on campus. That was happening.

I first was, I think my freshman year or so, I was involved with the Farm Workers Support Committee. In Indiana? Yeah, in Indiana. And what did they do? Well, they were urging boycotts of scab lettuce and scab grape. Okay, yeah. And I also was involved in the anti-war movement, too. I wasn't an organizer at that point, but I would just take, I got radicalized. At first, with Vietnam, I was trying to ignore it, you know, when I was in high school, you know,

it's a bad thing, but, you know. You didn't get your number picked, huh? My draft number was 166, so that was good enough not to be in the draft. How did that work? You just, you picked, it's like a lottery, man. You just pick a number, one through 365 or 366 or whatever. Okay, so they pull up to a certain number from each bunch? Yes, right. And so mine, 160, I'll never forget that.

166 got me out of the... Man, you left out. I was lucky, yeah. But you were on campus and there was a lot of action going on? Yeah, Indiana, Indiana U had a pretty, as conservative as the state is, had a pretty active anti-war movement and radicalization. There were several Marxist parties, left parties. It's interesting that you frame it as being radicalized.

I mean, it's interesting that what's going on now in this country and what's going on in colleges and in schools and everything else is still a reaction to that, to the late 60s. Yeah, what they called the Vietnam Syndrome or the Vietnam Effect, something like that. No, to this day, there's a lot of wariness and cynicism of the government. Are they liars? Yeah, but there's also a bunch of right-wingers saying that we're fighting communism, that liberals are commies. Yeah, right.

Which is totally ridiculous, but they set that frame when you, like, went in the 60s. Right, right. Well, you know, there was different levels people went to. You know, like, some people, a lot of people, probably most people said, oh, you know, we have a great government. Vietnam was just a little mistake we made, you know. And for me, it wasn't that. It was this is part of the sickness of the system, is neocolonialism. Right, sure.

And so I got into... So you got dug in. I got into reading a lot of Leon Trotsky and Lennon and people like that. Yeah. And how did that, what effect did that have? How long did that stick? Did you finish college?

Yeah. Yeah, I did. Eventually. Yeah, it was a lot of things going on, and I got into jazz music at that time. I got interested into my own ethnic history, into Jewish history. For one thing, I was wondering, why were all these famous commies Jews? What'd you find out? Well, I found out more about them. You know, why was the radicalization happening in Eastern Europe and why did it carry over to the Americas, you know? Yeah. And also I got very interested in African-American history, too.

There were definitely some parallels. Yeah. You know, and I read a lot about Malcolm X and Malcolm X's autobiography, of course. Yeah. And you probably remember, you know, certainly when Bobby Kinney got a shot, right? I was in high school then. Yeah. Yeah.

Pretty devastating. That was the same year Martin Luther King got shot, right? Or around then? Yeah, it was a month or two after that. I can't even imagine really with the country as connected as it was through, you know, one device and everybody getting the same information, how insane that must've landed all of that. It was, it was, yeah, it was, it was, it was pretty crazy. And I was, I was still in high school. I was still, you know, a good liberal Jewish boy, you know, but, um, it was not till later on that I, uh, you started to think, why did they get killed? And who was,

uh, you know, part of, uh of the, what's wrong with the system? Yeah, not that Bobby Kennedy was particularly a radical, but it seemed like he was definitely coming out more and more against the war in Vietnam. And he seemed to be supportive, particularly farm workers, he was supportive of. So I give him credit for that. Sure. So where does this all lead you ultimately? What kind of degree you end up with?

Well, I got a Bachelor of Science or Arts? I don't know. In Psychology, actually, is my undergraduate degree. No shit. No shit. So your point, where's the jazz coming from for you in the middle of radicalization and hippiness? What are you being exposed to? radicalization and hippiness, what are you being exposed to?

Okay, so my freshman year, I saw the main jazz instructor at Indiana University. His name was David Baker, who was from Indianapolis. African-American guy and pretty brilliant guy. And I saw his group perform. Yeah. And I'd already started listening. At school. Yeah, at school and campus. And I'd already started listening.

And my dorm library had some LPs by Miles Davis. I remember Birth of the Cool as well as Roundabout Midnight. And then they had the Clifford Brown Memorial album. And probably 95% of it was over my head. But I dug it. There was something about it. What do you mean by over your head? Well, I'm used to listening to rock and roll.

I'm used to listening. I mean,. You know, I'm used to listening. I mean, I'm a big Brian Wilson fan. I love Brian Wilson. So the Beach Boys were your guys? Oh, I love the Beach Boys. And what else were you listening to in college? Did your brother turn you on to shit? Yeah, to an extent.

That was later on. You know, I think he had a Thelonious Monk album, and that was definitely over my head at this time. It's interesting because when I started listening to jazz, and even now, I don't really necessarily know what I'm listening to. I know blues structure and whatnot. But whether it was over my head or not, I think that either you've got a brain that digs it or doesn't. Right. I can still listen to plenty of jazz.

I don't really know what's going on, but I can roll with it. Right. Because I have a cousin that literally can't listen to jazz because it makes her anxious. A number of people like that. Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So, but, like, the rock music at the time was pretty exciting, though, right? Yeah, yeah. It was, you know, I don't know if you've seen those documentaries on the Laurel Canyons. Yeah, sure, sure. Yeah, it was an awakening in America at that time. Not just music, a lot of stuff. But even the Beatles, you must remember the Beatles happening.

Yeah, the Beatles, the Beach Boys, Beatles, they evolved. You know, from the early blues, just bluesy stuff, they got into some pretty heavy stuff yeah you but you're kind of a bluesy guy i like the blues man yeah i like the i mean there's a uh you know how music hits you sometimes i mean my first jazz record i bought was kind of blue my mars davis and how can you not like that man yeah you know so that was a good introduction for me and then probably the second album i bought was by the the great lee morgan you know it was called search for the new land you know best yeah lee was fantastic so after you saw baker play at the school uh-huh you're you lit up that was it i started his his trumpet player was a very good trumpet player

uh a jewish guy. A Jewish guy? Yeah, Larry Wiseman. Oh, yeah? And he became almost like a big brother to me for a while. Yeah, he was a really good lead player and very good jazz player. So you approached him and you were just sort of like... Yeah, can I get a lesson with you?

Yeah. Yeah, and so, yeah, he charged me $5 a lesson. Five bucks. Yeah. I just paid $200 for a guitar lesson two weeks ago. Right, right. Times have changed, man. Times have changed, man. But I got a video with it. Oh lesson two weeks ago. Right. Times have changed. Times have changed, man. But I got a video with it.

Oh, that's cool. That's cool. Yeah. And yeah, he was a real good guy, you know, and he was a good teacher. And so, and I got interested in the jazz scene and you get into jazz, not only jazz history, but that also overlaps with kind of African-American history too, you know. So yeah, it was a wake-up. So you're in college, and I know that Indianapolis, all towns have their little pockets of whatever,

and jazz is a pretty specific pocket. Was there a place when you were 18 where you could go hang out? Yeah, maybe about a year or so later. where you could go, like, hang out? Yeah, maybe about a year or so later. My sophomore year, I was practicing in the music building, just another Saturday night without a date. Yeah.

And I'm in the music room practicing trumpet, trying to figure out how to play over chord changes and knock on the door in the practice room, and it was a trumpet player, African-American player. And he says, I hear what you're trying to do, and blah, blah, blah, let me help you with this. And we became friends. He was five years older than I was, and he had been to Vietnam.

He played from Cincinnati originally, but he knew the ghetto jazz scene. Yeah. At that time, it still existed, you know? In Indianapolis. In Indianapolis, yeah. I remember him taking me to a club called The Hubbub. Yeah.

And The Hubbub had pictures of the greats from Indianapolis on the walls, like pictures of Freddie Hubbard. He's from Indianapolis? Oh, yeah. No shit. Yeah. And I did a gig with his brother once. His brother was a piano player named Herman Hubbard.

Yeah. Nice piano player. And then the Montgomery's, Wes Montgomery and his brothers, all from Indianapolis. J.J. Johnson. Oh, yeah. Oh, larry ridley a great bass player who's still alive and oh a lot of cats yeah and so he took me to these places that were still they still had these jazz afternoon matinees where young people like myself could sit in and make fools of ourselves oh yeah yeah but it was good training like an open stage you had a band that would kind of lock in and make fools of ourselves. Oh, yeah? Yeah, but it was good training. Like an open stage, you had a band that would kind of lock in

and then guys would come up? Typically, it would be like an organ trio. So it would be a B3 organ with guitar and drums. Mm-hmm. And, yeah, they'd play certain tunes, and then maybe the second set they'd open it up and you could sit in, you know? B3, like Jimmy Smith?

Yeah, just like Jimmy Smith, yeah. Okay okay those guys charles erlin jimmy smith so you're going there you like what 19 yeah and you know and you're you're taking jazz lessons or you're trying to figure it out what's the process of figuring out jazz like in just terms of basics you know what i mean i'd say uh uh one thing is trying to learn the tunes best to try to learn the tunes from the records if you can and then try to learn the solos you know and then try to pick apart the chords yeah and i mean that's that's not really easy and there was no youtube so you're sitting there with a record dropping the needle every you know every two seconds ruining manyining many LPs, yeah. Yeah, stop the turntable with your hands, you know.

Yeah, and are you listening primarily to Lee? Lee and Miles. Yeah. And to this day, those are my two favorites, too, to this day. So now, so you're going around, what's his cast name, the trumpet player? Marcus Brown was his name. Yeah, how was he, good? He was a good player, kind of, I don't know if you know Blue Mitchell's style of playing.

I do, yeah. Yeah, he kind of came out of that kind of Blue Mitchell school, and he got me my first professional gig. We played with a band, it was kind of an R&B band. It was Allison and Calvin Turner and the Sound Masters, a very popular band in central Indiana among certain people. And my friend Marcus kind of was the most streetwise person i ever knew yeah yeah he he knew how to hustle yeah yeah yeah and was he uh uh like what was the scene in terms of the of drugs well you know we didn't i probably did a few things i shouldn't have done but but i never got into anything real heavy. Never got strung out? No, no, I never did.

I knew people who did. Yeah, of course. You know, I mean, it's sort of fascinating to me that jazz culture, even as insulated as it was, you know, it had obviously a huge impact on society and music, but so many junkies, man. Yeah, right, right. You know, like, you know, and I have to, you so many junkies, man. Yeah. Right. Right. You know,

like, you know, and I have to, you know, I interviewed Ron Carter. Oh wow. And that dude, you know,

like he's on about 2000 records. Yeah. You know, he's like the guy, the bass guy. Yeah, sure. And,

you know, and he's, and he's like, you know, uh, he, he carries himself, you know,

as like, almost like a professor. Yeah. Like someone who commands respect and deserves respect. But he was always the guy. He was the straight one. Right. You know what I mean?

Like we didn't get too far into it, but it just seems to me that there were just hours and hours of, you know, either waiting for someone to show up or hoping they could fucking play. Right, right. Yeah, you read some biographies of these people, you know, and you didn't know whether – I think there's a recording session where Miles didn't even have a Yeah, you read some biographies of these people, you know, and you didn't know whether – I think there's a recording session where Miles didn't even have a trumpet, you know,

and someone had to bring him a beat-up old trumpet or something to play the session. Yeah. And like Bill Evans. Yeah, I saw Bill Evans once, yeah. How was that, later in life? Yeah, it was when I was in Indiana U. My last year, probably 1975, 76, yeah.

So he was in okay shape, no? Yeah, he was okay shape. He was a group with, who was playing? Elliot Sigmund on drums. And shoot, who's the bass player? Eddie Gomez. Yeah, he was with Gomez for a while. Yeah, yeah.

Was that great? It was wonderful. All right, so you're playing trumpet in an R&B band, basically. Yeah, but in those days, there was a crossover between R&B and jazz. Like, for example, I have a couple records by this B3 player, Lonnie Smith. Yeah, I know Lonnie Smith. Oh, yeah, he passed away a year or so ago, a year or two ago. Anyway, at the time when I was playing with this Allison and Calvin Turner,

they would say, someone would call, yeah, let's do the Lonnie Smith thing. And I had no idea what it was. It was only until I bought the records, oh, this is what we used to play. So that's interesting, though, because I never thought about it like that. But B3 is the crossover. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Because that groove, it's way before the edge of jazz improvisation. It kind of grounds you in kind of a post-gospel funk groove.

Yeah, it comes out of the church. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. There's one CD I have called The Turning Point, which is pretty cool. They do a version of Eleanor Rigby. Yeah, I have that record. And then I have an LP called Think that came out of the same session with Lonnie Smith. Yeah, I have those records.

With Lee Morgan and David Fathead Newman. Yeah. Oh, it's wonderful music. Yeah, well, it's kind of interesting. So, like, you know, despite whatever, you might realize it now, but that was pretty good training to sort of get you into advanced bebop, right? Eventually? I thought, yeah. It was invaluable.

Yeah. It was wonderful. And were you doing a lot of gigs? You know, it was, boy, that was like winter vacation. Oh, yeah. All right. But I was working, God, I remember I was working a horrible job in a shoe warehouse, you know, in wintertime, you know, Christmas vacation. And that got me out of that, you know, and it made some money playing music going down

to Florida. And then we did some gigs in central Indiana. Yeah. So what's your old man think about, you know, his Marxist jazz bow? My parents at first were very overprotective of me, you know, with their stuff. You know, what are you doing? What are you doing? But then after I played, you know, at least semi-professionally,

they would brag to all their friends. Oh, yeah, my son's doing this. My son's doing this. And then, you know, and after I came out to California in the 90s, I was playing with a pretty well-known ska band. And we went to Japan quite a few times, you know, and my mom, of course, was the bragger. She would tell her friends, oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, and her friends would go like, what band?

Yeah, yeah, ska, yeah, yeah. Middle-class Jewish women digging ska, right? So you're back at school after you do this run with the Turners. Are any of the big guys, your heroes, coming through? I saw, yeah, yeah. Does Freddie still, does he have still a family there? Is Hubbard coming in?

He came to Indiana U. I saw him at IU when I was a sophomore. How was that? It was wonderful. Yeah, yeah. God, I was 19 years old. And yeah, Freddie was happening, really happening. Yeah, and then in Cincinnati where I had family,

they had the Cool Jazz Festival. That was the Cool Cigarette Company. It was one of George Wine's things. So I went three years in a row, age 18, 19, and 20. The first year, among other people, Cannonball Adderley's group. Oh. And then the second year, Lee Morgan's group. Really?

You saw Lee Morgan? Yeah, six months before he was killed. Yeah, I saw Lee. How was that? It was fantastic. It was beyond words. And then the last year I went, I saw an all-star group put together and it had Thelonious Monk. Come on.

Yeah, wonderful. Now, what was the audience for jazz then? I mean, were these big crowds? Yeah, it was a pretty big crowd. It was in the baseball stadium. Mostly black or no? Mostly black. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. It was in the baseball stadium in Cincinnati. And, yeah, it was wonderful. So you finish out college, but you're practicing all the time. I'm practicing. Yeah, I had a few gigs throughout my college career, even including being in optometry school. Yeah, what was that decision?

So, you know, you're coming out of college with your psychology degree and your politics and your trumpet, and what are you thinking? I'm thinking I've got to make a frigging living, man, you know. And my parents, I told my parents, I got a lot of encouragement from various music teachers at IU, professors at IU. To what? To be a music major. I thought you said to IU, professors at IU. To what? To be a music major. I thought you said to be an optometrist.

Yeah, right. So I told my parents I wanted to change my major to music. And they said, that's fine. You'll just pay your way through college. This is undergrad. Undergrad, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so I thought, and then I did a,

there were a lot of interesting discussions I had, right? Like what? With them? With my parents. Yeah, there was some spirited discussion. So they held that over you. They weren't going to pay if you did something what they saw as irrational.

And I, you know, I mean, looking back, I see their point. They're from poor immigrant families, you know. Sure. And- They're nervous for you. Yeah, exactly. And my older brother,

who was more the straight-A student than I was, he abandoned all that stuff. He was pre-med. He started pre-med, and then he said, screw that, and he majored in English. Yeah? Yeah. What does he do? He's retired now. We don't talk to each other very much. Oh, that's too bad.

It is too bad. Was he an academic? He wound up teaching high school and junior college English. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, literature, you know. Huh. So, so a lot of pressure was on me. Yeah, you better, you better stick with something.

You're going to be the Jew doctor. Yeah, yeah. So, so I talked to a grad student at IU, someone who was a good friend of Freddie Hubbard, by the way. His name is Don, Don Pickett. Yeah. Don had written some tunes for Freddie that Freddie recorded. And, and Don said to me, you know, it doesn't matter what you major in. If you want to be a musician, you'll be a musician.

You'll do it. You'll find a way to do it. And so that really stuck with me. You know, it's just like learn not to waste time, whether it be, you know, watching television or watching stupid stuff on the Internet or wasting your time with people who are a drag on you. So I learned to be really efficient with my time. And so, yeah, I practice that trumpet every day, man. And only if I'm sick, really sick. But I put in one to three hours a night.

Now? Oh, yeah. I may not go to bed until one in the morning, two in the morning, but, but yeah, I, I got to play through some of my stuff on trumpet, man. Yeah. That's what Sidren said, you know, cause I said you were my optometrist and he said, well, he kept his lip in shape. Yeah, man. Yeah. You got to on trumpet. You can't, you know, at least I have to put it that way. Yeah. No, I imagine you have to, I don't even, I don't even know what it takes in terms of the mouth and the trumpet. It takes consistency.

I mean, let's say if I laid off for a week and I came back and I had to do a gig, I'd be good for maybe a couple tunes, and then after that my lip would be for shit. Oh, really? Yeah. You've got to keep it worked out. Yeah, you've got to keep it worked out. And what is very cool at least my experience with trumpet is you learn every time every time i pick up that horn i'm i'm

into learning something new about this thing and my my technique has gotten a lot better in the last last couple years well i think you know i think that's true like i was not you know i'm not much of a guitar player but like i kept you know learning right and then all of a guitar player, but I kept learning. And then all of a sudden, it's like with instruments, no matter how old you are, one little thing could open up a whole other world. Oh, big time. It's a weird thing, man. It's like writing. If you're writing every day and you're locked in, you learn things about yourself and you go places you never thought you would.

Big time. And you may go through down periods as well as up periods. And you may get frustrated and want to throw the damn horn against the wall or whatever, man. But yeah, the main thing is if you want to, you do it, you know? Yeah. And I think the thing about jazz is that like, obviously, you know, the audience for it is specific and probably smaller than it was at its beginning. Oh, for sure. Right? But, I mean, but that is the nature of that racket, right? So, like, you know, the pressure of, you know,

selling out a fucking theater is not on you. The pressure is to deliver the goods, right? It's to deliver the goods. I mean, and in the local club scenes seen here in L.A., I mean, whoever's booking the music will say, well, how many people do you think you can bring in? Yeah. I don't freaking know how many people.

You know, I mean, sometimes I get a really great crowd. At the York, I usually get a really good crowd. But, yeah, some places, man, you know, you don't. But you got people? Yeah, I got people who follow me. Yeah, I got a fan base. All right, So what happens? You know, your parents win the fight and you decide on optometry because why?

It was a reasonable amount of time to get a practical medical degree? Yeah, because, yeah. I have to say the reason I did optometry as opposed to straight ahead medicine, let's say, is because I didn't want to do the residency and hospital and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You know, you do four years of medical school, and then you've got to spend another two years in the hospital. Yeah, I thought, well, I could do optometry. I had a decent science background. My grades were okay, you know.

And so let me do this. And so most of my optometry, until I opened my office in Highland Park in 09, but most of my career I just worked part-time. I worked three days a week. Okay, so tell me what happens. You haven't put together a band yet after college. No, no, I had not. And then you go directly to optometry school in Indiana?

Yeah, I went to IU School of Optometry. So I was seven years at Indiana total. So that was a three-year program? No, it's actually four, but I got in after my third year. Okay. And I did take some summer school classes, too, to make up. And all through it, you're playing, you're hanging out on Indianapolis Avenue. Well, you know, Indiana, and you use in Bloomington, Indiana.

So that's 50 miles south of Indianapolis. Oh, holy shit. Of course I know, he was in Bloomington, Indiana, so that 50-mile south of Indiana. Oh, holy shit, of course I know that. I play Bloomington like once a year. There's a little club up there that I go work out at. Okay. That's a weird little town, man. Yeah, yeah. You know, because he got the college and then he got whatever surrounds it.

Well, I tell you, one time in the 60s, we're driving back from Bloomington. We had either dropped my brother off at school or visited him, and we're driving back about 20 miles north of Bloomington. It's a little town called Martinsville, and I saw a burning cross there. Come on, man. It's serious. I couldn't believe my eyes. I thought I was dreaming. But I look out there, and on a hillside about maybe a half mile away,

yeah, there's a burning cross. Yeah. Lord have mercy. I tell you, every time I go to Bloomington, there's something weird about it. You know, because I know the school's there, and it seems like I'm always there when school's out. Uh-huh. Like, I'm going during the summer.

Yeah. So there's a few kids around. But the club, I get a good pull. I get a good draw. They're only seats, like, 150 maybe. But it's just a vibe there. You know, when the students are out there, you've got the locals, whatever that is. And then you've got the people that have been living around the college for the

last 30 years. Oh, yeah. Eternal students. Yeah. And then you've got tweakers on the perimeter. Yeah, right. It's a thing. And they switch that train track. You can walk along that track now. There's a chunk of track that's not functional anymore. Oh, in Bloomington, huh? Yeah, and they've made it like a walk. And there's some hip shit going on. Yeah, yeah. There was some good stuff. I have friends to this day, you know, that I made in college. Yeah.

And we keep in touch. And I had some fun times, man, you know. So what happens after optometry school? So I had, I took, I needed to take my board examination so i took indiana board examination because my home state i pretty much knew i didn't want to be living in indiana though you know and i was either going to live in new york or else california for the music yeah for music and just in general yeah vibe let's say too you know too. So I couldn't take my New York exam because it coincided with the Indiana exam. But I could take the California exam.

So I wound up here with the idea that, oh, in a year, I'll take the New York State Board. But in the meantime, I met the woman who became my first wife. And I was getting a life here. And where, in California? Yeah. So when did you move out here? Fall of 76. So you've move out here? Fall of 76. So you've been out here a while, man.

So your folks had come out here too, or they came out later after you got married? They came out here three years after I did. Because you got, what, did you have a kid? Not yet. Oh, but they saw it coming. Maybe. So what happened, they were going to tear down the building that my dad's drug store was in. And by that time, he was in his 60s, you know, and he didn't want to start up a new business, you know.

Yeah. And my parents always liked California. So you lived in Highland Park in 76? I lived in Pasadena in 76, but Highland Park in 77. No shit. No shit, yeah. Different world then. It was a way different world, yeah. It shit. No shit, yeah. Different world then. It was a way different world, yeah.

It was a lot different, yeah. It's all Latino, right? It was mostly Latino. Some artists? Yeah, there were some artists here. There were some political people. But I lived in a back house. Actually, I think, I'm not sure where you used to live

in Highland Park, but I lived on a street called Stratford Avenue 51. Yeah. And I lived in a back house, which was lived on a street called Stratford near Avenue 51. Yeah. And I lived in a back house, which was perfect for a single guy, you know. And I remember across the street there was this paraplegic drug dealer. Yeah. It was, you know. Yeah, wow.

Interesting. I'm assuming he had some help. Yeah, he had some help. Some good help. Yeah, and that was cool for a while until the front house was a family. I thought they were old, but they were probably in their mid-30s then. And the wife used to flirt with all the young guys around there. And the husband would be really, really jealous, man.

Oh, yeah. And he kind of threatened me one time. And I had nothing to do with his wife, of course. Yeah, but you just don't want to be in the sights of that. Exactly. You don't want to be a suspect. Yeah, I don't want to be a suspect. Yeah.

Yeah, dead or alive. So you're back there jamming? Yeah, I'm practicing, yeah. And apparently my landlord called me up one day and said, a neighbor called and said that if he, the landlord, didn't do anything about the situation, which was me playing trumpet, then he would do something about the situation. This other guy would do. So I knew it was that the guy in the front house. So I moved. So by that time I moved in with my first wife to be, we moved just, it arranged you in 56 actually. We rented another back house, a little bit bigger back house. And we were there for a few years. And then eventually we bought a house in Highland

Park eventually. Yeah. You still got it? No, it was sold because I split up with my wife. Right. And she eventually sold it. Yeah. Yeah, she got it, but then she sold it eventually too. She sold it for like when it was hot? She probably, God, I don't know how much.

She did nothing like what it is now. She sold it probably for $100,000. We bought it for $70,000. Yeah. And you got a kid with her? Yes, yeah. He's in optometry school now, by the way. Yeah, he's starting his fourth year, yeah,

in optometry school. So, okay, so you're in Highland Park. You're in Los Angeles. There's a scene here. I don't know what it looks like in the 70s, but what did it look like when you were going out to find a jazz? Oh, the jazz scene? There were some cool clubs.

Well, there was the Lighthouse, which was going pretty much full time. And there was another club called Concerts by the Sea. That was Redondo Beach. And I saw a lot of good people there as well. So you're checked in. You're just going. You're watching all the jazz.

You're taking it in still. I was like a kid in a candy store when I came to LA. It was so much jazz music. And so what are you doing for work? I was working. I started maybe one year of full-time working for an optometrist. He was young too. He was 32, 33 years old. My job interview with him was, he pulls out a joint and says, you do this? That was my job interview. he pulls out a joint and says,

you do this? That was my job interview. It was good with him for a while, and then it eventually soured. And I worked, again, my main, I wanted to always be a good optometrist. I don't want to deny that. I was, this is my responsibility to do right by people.

But my main interest was getting to be a good musician. And did you get in with a band in the 70s? Okay, so I played with garage bands, mostly Latino rock garage bands, East L.A. bands. So you were in that trip. Because I know on that first record, the one from 2000.

Les Super Cool. That's it. I'm in a car. Yeah, but that opens with a salsa band. Yeah, it opens with a tune called Millennium Montuno, which was put on a jazz compilation CD. Oh, yeah? Yeah, put out by a label.

So were you picking up that groove playing with the Latino bands? Well, yeah, a little later on, because those bands were kind of more Latin rock bands, and they dabbled a little bit in what we might call salsa, you know. of more Latin rock bands, and they dabbled a little bit in what we might call salsa, you know. But it was later on, I played with some Puerto Rican bands, and I played with this Cuban musician named Rudy Calzado, who wrote some tunes for Celia Cruz. Yeah.

You know, I did some stuff with him, and then I went through some changes. My older brother knocked my teeth out when I was a kid, and I've had teeth problems off and on, upper front teeth. Is that when the problem began? Well, it was hard for me to play high notes for a while because in the salsa scene... He Chet Baker'd you. He Chet Baker'd me, yeah, man. So I played with cumbia bands after that.

And cumbia bands, usually the demand for high notes is not as much as the Cuban and Puerto Rican. You adapted. You adapted, yeah. And eventually built my chops back up. But periodically, I've had to deal with that issue with my upper front teeth. Yeah, they're good now, though? Yeah, they're good. Yeah, for about a year and a half now, it's good.

No kidding. So it's really been a lifelong struggle. Yeah, like it's and there's only one blame for that whatever man you know the past is the past you know sure man so but it's just interesting that you whatever the trauma is whether it's inside or outside you carry it and you got to deal with it you carry it it's all on me yeah i don't blame anyone yeah It's me. But now I feel really good about my chops. So it just sounds like you're playing with whoever you can, whenever you can. You're staying active and engaged and keeping, you know. Yeah, it's mostly my own group nowadays.

I play with them. When did you start your own group, the first one? Eventually. I mean, eventually. Originally, kind of middle, late 90s. Yeah. And I was playing with this ska group that was, a Latin ska group, was called Jump With Joey.

Yeah. And we were popular in Hollywood, did a lot of Hollywood parties. Yeah. And I made contacts with some of the owners. So, like, nights I would call the owner, well, I'm getting a little jazz group together, can you throw me a gig here and there? Yeah.

And so that's how I kind of got my thing going. And you've been playing with the same guys? It varies a bit, but I've had, one of my bass players has played with me in the beginning. We used to play at a club called Lava Lounge. Yeah, I remember that. With an acid jazz group together. What's acid jazz?

How do you define that? Oh, it's kind of. It's got a synthesized groove or what? Jazz mixed with funk and hip-hop kind of thing. The thing I love about going to see you as the optometrist, it's like York, the street is changing so much, but you still got that hand-painted front. Yeah, man.

Yeah, man. It's like a remnant of what Highland Park used to be. I'm a dinosaur, man. No, no. It looks good to you. It was clear that you got the pulse on the neighborhood. I guess so, man. Yeah.

I just do what comes natural. Sure. And you probably have, at this point, you've probably had family people that have been coming to you for years. Oh, yeah, yeah. Some people, particularly a lot of Latino families, I used to work at a health center about a mile from there. And they said, oh, you know, I speak Spanish pretty well. Yeah, yeah. And they would talk to me and say, oh, doctor, so good to see you again.

That's sweet. It's really sweet. Well, it's nice being like a neighborhood fixture in a way. Yeah. What do you think? How do you think the neighborhood's going? You like it? The change?

Well, yeah. I like it. I mean, it's more interesting. There's some negative things. Like it? The change? Well, yeah. I like it. I mean, it's more interesting. There's some negative things. I mean, the rents have gone skyrocketing, you know, and people who are just making, you know, let's call it a working class income. It's hard. It's tough, man. And it's like, you know, gentrification's got, you know, it's, I don't like it, man.

Conversations got, you know, it's, I don't like it, man. You know, I mean, that's one of the reasons I kind of split because, you know, I feel that attention that I don't think I'm projecting. But there is attention to it. Right. Yeah. You know? Yeah, there is. It didn't feel aggressive, but it felt, you know, I don't know.

I felt responsible because I talk it up, you know. But I lived in a box up there that was less than 1,000 square feet. It was a nice little house. But now it's like, you know, I look on Zillow, it's like 1.2. Right. I mean, what the fuck? The house that I bought for $70,000 in the 80s is, yeah, on the market for a million dollars, man. That's bullshit, you know? Yeah, man.

Yeah, it's capitalism. You know, it's this kind of investor capitalism and it's just driving everything crazy. See, you're still a little radicalized. It's good. Oh, you know, I'm still a commie Jew, man. Yeah. No, yeah. No, I went to Nicaragua in the 1980s, man, when the revolution was happening.

Yeah? Yeah. And that doesn't mean I'm any kind of hot shit. I think I have my trumpet with me. I think I was practicing. Or take his house band down there? Yeah. Well, he's gone.

I don't know. He's gotten weird, too, man. Yeah. The power's gone to his head. Sure, man. I mean, everybody sells out. I guess so. It's enough to make you cynical sometimes, right?

Very. I'm not completely cynical, man. I mean, music keeps you a little less cynical. It keeps you. There's still hope, man. You know, it's... So how many records you got out now? Of my own, I have four.

Yeah. Yeah, and then I've been a sideman on quite a few records. And yours are all on iTunes. It's either Elliot Cain or the Elliot Cain, what, quintet? Quintet or sextet, whatever. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And in the 90s, because I was playing with a few very popular bands,

I played, I'm on one record of Beck. Yeah, sure. And I'm on one record of who else? There's a band called Filter, actually. Yeah, I remember Filter. And that record went platinum, and so I got a platinum record at home, man. Did you get a little platinum residuals?

I do get residuals every so often. Yeah, not enough to quit the day gig yet. Right, yeah, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you're open to session work? I'm open to session work. You got a rep? No, it's me, myself, and I, man.

You want to be my rep? So they got to go to the website. You need some trumpet on your record. Yeah, you know, it's just- Check in with Dr. Elliot Kane on York Boulevard Highland Park that's right for all you listeners out there get me a gig

that's right it's the optometrist joint with the jazz records in the window that's right I have a Lenny Bruce album in the window too did you ever see him

no I'm a little too young for that but I don't know if I ever told you I hung out with his mom yeah Sally Sally Marr

yeah and that was through a patient. I used to work in the Crenshaw area for a couple of years. Yeah. And I had a patient, a middle-aged African-American woman. It was something different about her, obviously. And sure enough, she's an actress and a comedian. Yeah. Her name was Esther Sutherland. And she was from the East Coast. And she had told me during the course of the conversation, she knew Billie Holiday and that she knew Lenny Bruce. And I said, well, those are two of my heroes.

And she says, well, I'm having lunch with Lenny's mom this Saturday. Would you like to join us? Yeah. So that was— She was a pip, right, Sally? Yeah. She was really—she reminded me a bit of my grandmother, except my grandmother never used the word motherfucker. But she did give me a-

Only in Yiddish. Only in Yiddish. Chaleria. Chaleria in Yiddish. But she gave me a booklet that Lenny had printed and subsequently tried to have destroyed because of his drug and obscenity trials. But his daughter was republishing. So she gave me, it's called Stamp Help Out. You ever seen it? Uh-uh. Oh, but his daughter was republishing. So she gave me, it's called Stamp Help Out.

You ever seen it? Uh-uh. Oh, I got to show it to you. Yeah? Yeah. I got some record that he put out, you know, to get money for the drug trials.

Like it's a little 10-inch. Oh, yeah? That was a small press. I'm not, I think, I can't remember who gave it to me or where I got it. I know Richard Lewis has got a couple

and Kitty had one. Maybe Kitty, because I did something for her with the shirts. Maybe she gave it to me or where I got it. I know Richard Lewis has got a couple and Kitty had one. Maybe Kitty, because I did something for her with the shirts. Maybe she gave it to me. I can't remember. It's cool, though. Uh-huh. Yeah.

Yeah, he was a hero of mine. I mean, when I discovered Lenny Bruce, it was the book called The Essential Lenny Bruce. Oh, yeah, that's all the bits. Yeah, and I didn't know who, I was a sophomore in college and this girl I know lent it to me, you know? Yeah.

And at the time, I was pretty shy, withdrawn, underconfident person. And I read that this was like, it was, I found Jesus. I found God. The Bible. Yeah. It's like, oh my God, this is, he's saying all the things that were inside of my. Yeah, man. I found a first edition hardback cover of that in a bookstore, used bookstore in Phoenix,

Arizona. And it had a bookmark in it that was a Campfire Girls bookmark. Oh, wonderful. I thought, this is perfect. Well, it was great talking to you. Oh, thank you. Thank you for having me.

And you got that monthly gig at the York. Your albums are available on iTunes. And if you need your eyes checked and you're in the LA area, Dr. Elliot Kane. Thanks, brother. Thank you very much. There you go.

There you go. Keep the dream alive. You can go to ElliotCain.com for all this stuff and hang out for a minute, folks. You can get anything you need with Uber Eats. Well, almost almost anything. So no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats. But meatballs and mozzarella balls. Yes, we can deliver that.

Uber Eats. Get almost almost anything. Order now. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. Discover the timeless elegance of cozy where furniture meets innovation. Designed in Canada, the sofa collections are not just elegant. They're modular, designed to adapt and evolve with your life. Reconfigure them anytime for a fresh look or a new space.

Experience the cozy difference with furniture that grows with you, delivered to your door quickly and for free. Assembly is a breeze, setting you up for years of comfort and style. Don't break the bank. Cozy's Direct2 model ensures that quality and value go hand in hand. Transform your living space today with Cozy. Visit cozy.ca, that's C-O-Z-E-Y, and start customizing your furniture. All right. Look, as I mentioned, yeah, it happened. Monday is Albert Brooks Day here on WTF, and right after I got home from the hotel where we talked, I jumped on the mics with Brendan to debrief. But I asked him, are there any regrets around any of the movies?

And the only story he has really is about the in-laws. And it's very specific. Oh, that remake? Right. But he did not have a problem with doing the movie. Oh, that remake? on his part, even though it was a remake basically, but they weren't calling it The In-Laws. And Albert was very upset that they decided ultimately to call it The In-Laws. And you can listen to that story.

You can hear the rest of that bonus episode with a full Marin subscription. Just go to the link in the episode description to sign up or go to wtfpod.com and click on WTF Plus. All right, there we go. That's it. Use whatever means, use whatever options, use whatever methods you have at your disposal to maintain your sanity during this holiday without hurting yourself or others. You know, keep it together people if it sounds weird i'm in a hotel room you knew that all right i'll talk to you monday here's some uh guitar from the archives Thank you. Thank you. ¶¶ Boomer lives.

Monkey in La Fonda. Cat angels everywhere. Happy Thanksgiving. Can you do it?