WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1491 - Albert Brooks

Episode Date: November 27, 2023

A conversation more than a dozen years in the making, Albert Brooks finally agreed to sit down with Marc overlooking the Pacific Ocean at The Georgian Hotel in Santa Monica. After recently going over parts of his life and career in a documentary directed by his friend Rob Reiner, Albert fills in the gaps with Marc, talking about his early days doing bits for radio stations and television variety shows, his standup sets in LA clubs, and his first writing gigs. There are also lots of stories along the way about folks like Jack Benny, Garry Shandling, George Burns, Paul Lynde and Albert’s mom. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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take care of some business i'll be doing a live talk with cliff nesteroff about his new book outrageous at the new york public library this wed, November 29th. It's a free event, and you can go in person or watch the live stream. Go to nypl.org slash events. My Los Angeles dates are these. I'm at Dynasty Typewriter on December 1st, 13th, and 28th, The Elysian on December 6th, 15th, and 22nd, and Largo on December 12th and January 9th. San Diego at the Observatory North Park on Saturday, January 27th for two shows. San Francisco at the Castro Theater on Saturday, February 3rd. Also in San Francisco on the 4th, February 4th, I'll be hosting McCabe and Mrs. Miller at the Roxy Theater. We've contacted the theater. They should be putting up something for you to buy tickets with soon. I'll be at Portland,

Maine at the State Theater on Thursday, March 7th. Medford, Massachusetts outside of Boston at the Chevalier Theater on March 8th, Friday. Providence, Rhode Island at the Strand Theater on Saturday, March 9th. And Tarrytown, New York at the Tarrytown Music Hall on Sunday, March 10th. Go to wtfpod.com slash tour for tickets. All right, here we go. Listen up. This is it. Albert Brooks. I love Albert Brooks. Who doesn't love Albert Brooks? I feel close to Albert Brooks. I feel like he's part of my comedy vocabulary. Uh, I feel like he had a profound influence on me. I don't know if you can see it or feel it, but he's there he's a special special man a special funny man now this me trying to get albert on the show goes back a while the first tweets that i sent him asking him

to come on the show were like in 2011 now we didn't even have a booking system back then it was just whoever you know we could get whoever i reached out to friends of friends people on twitter occasionally that worked not too many times i think only once maybe david crosby maybe not maybe more i don't know i've done like 1500 of these things so i started pestering albert in 2011 in august of 2013 i tweeted come on let's end the charade. I'll come to you. And he replied, then you won't want me anymore. It's more fun this way. The fuck, right? But he knew, he knew, he knew. All right. And then in April, 2014, I sent a letter to him through his reps, asking him to be guests for the 500th episode. That would have been special. And they responded, quote, Mr. Brooks is well aware of Mark and his wonderful podcast. When the time is right,

we will let you know. But at this time, he is working on a project. He wanted me to let you know that it will happen before one of them dies, unquote. All right. So then I went back and forth with him later that year in 2015. And then at the Gary Shandling Memorial, I was walking out with a bunch of people. I felt these hands on my shoulders. I turn around, and there's Albert in a golf hat. He says, let's do the podcast now. And then I went back and forth on Twitter.

And then I would check in with him from time to time over the years, just tweeting at him, you know, like things like Albert, it feels like it's time. And then finally, finally, I did it again on October 26th of this year ahead of the new documentary that's out now on HBO, Albert Brooks defending my life. But we got the message from the booker saying that albert would like to do it now that the strike is over but you know the courting process is pretty engaging and the project that he decides to to come on for is literally a documentary where his best friend is interviewing him about his life. But of course, I'm going to talk to him. And then we're like, well, is he coming over to the house? No, he's allergic to cats. But we don't have cats in the studio. He's allergic to cats,

not coming to the house. So am I going to his house? No. So the plan is for me to go to Santa Monica and meet him at the Georgian Hotel, which I've seen. It's a landmark almost in Santa Monica, this beautiful old hotel. But to me, that meant two things. All right, so he doesn't want to come to my house for whatever reason, and he doesn't want me in his house. I don't know.

Is he afraid I'm going to steal or see something? I get it. All right. He doesn't want to host. Fine. I go to the Georgian Hotel, which I've never been in. The place is stunning. It's like this. It's of a period. It's beautifully restored. It's just gorgeous. It's this gorgeous old hotel. And we had a suite on one of the upper floors. So I get there early and it's looking out over the Pacific. I mean, you couldn't have a better

view of the Pacific ocean at this place. I, but you know, you know, it's weird about that hotel. The one thing I learned is that I didn't even know this place was like this. And if I just want to get out of my house and my head for a couple of days, I would go check in at the Georgian. I mean, Santa Monica is kind of a schlep. It is kind of a day trip. It could be an overnight trip and maybe two nights. But just to sit on one of those upper floors in that suite and look at the Pacific ocean. Gorgeous. It was, it was great. I, I got there and I'm like, I don't even want to work. I don't want to even do the interview. I just want to hang out here for a couple of days, but no, I had to get set up, had to get coffee going, had to get the mics going. I forgot to take a picture

with me and Albert. It doesn't matter. So Albert comes first, his publicist comes, she makes sure everything's all right. And then he comes and, uh, you know, I'm like's all right and then he comes and uh you know i'm like all right here we go and i told him i'm like you know you just did you know a documentary so what what do you want me to do he's like there there's more stories all right fine so we sit down and we do it and was great had a great time great time talking albert great time meeting him again but it turns out that if you listen to this interview it can actually work as sort of a companion piece as it will because you should watch the the doc albert brooks defending my life on hbo but this interview is totally different there's very few repeated points stories, and it kind of can work as a companion piece.

Maybe it'll fill in some gaps for sure. It's more Albert Brooks. I thought it was great. I really did. You know, I wish I could talk to him more. I've had these moments with some guests. Randy Newman was another one where I feel like maybe we could socialize occasionally,

but I don't know. I don't expect that, but I do feel thoroughly satisfied and honored to have had the conversation I did with Albert. The documentary, Rob Reiner's documentary, Albert Brooks, Defending My Life, is now streaming on Max. And again, this interview was recorded at the historic Georgian Hotel on the beach in Santa Monica. And again, this interview is different almost entirely from the stuff that's in the documentary. This is me talking to Albert Brooks. You can get anything you need with Uber Eats.

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and on the money, a half hour, and he said, okay, that's it. And he walked away in the middle of it. So a precedent has been set. I don't want you to. Are we? Yeah, yeah, sure. Is this the show?

Of course it's a show. Well, I'm going to open by telling you this is the biggest mistake I've ever made. Already? And I'll tell you why. Okay. Because I was the white whale. I know. Every article, every 20, last 20 years, five articles, who do you want to get?

Yeah. So I go from being on a list of four to being one of 20,000 tuna. Well, I mean, but here's what happened so for me you're the white whale but that you know and i tried and i tried and now after you uh you know do a show where you tell everybody everything you agree well i didn't tell everybody everything and it was and you know i i need something to be proud of to even do anything like this because I don't know. I never felt that just talking out of the blue made sense for me. Even if it was, you know, your whole life? I mean, you got a whole life.

Yeah, I know. But it's nice to be able to attach it to something. Your life? Yeah. Yeah. In the current way, like attach it to something now. Yes, now, present. I understand. So you, present. I understand.

So you're vital. I understand. So you're not Jerry Lewis going, thanks for talking to me. Walked away. I'm remembering my own life from 80 years ago. Not 80 yet. No, I meant Jerry Lewis. Oh, yeah, Jerry Lewis.

Oh, God, I'm not 80. Did you know Jerry Lewis? I never met him. How is that possible? Why would I? Because he was around, kind of. But in high school, we used to stay up all night, that telethon, just waiting. Just to watch him?

To watch him at 3 in the morning, lose it, and go crazy. And he always did. Maybe it was 3, 3.30. Who's the cripple kid? Get him out of here every year something bizarre happened around for the boy he's sweating and smoking where's that fucking mcmahon get him out of here that was that's what you waited for that was a thing yeah Yeah. Comedian friends of mine. Yeah. Budding comedians. In the 70s?

In the 70s would stay up to watch him all night waiting for him. For the snap. For the snap. Yeah. People used to snap more, I found. They don't snap as much as they used to. That's another horrible result of social media. Exactly.

We don't have the human experience of watching professional show people lose their minds it's absolutely true it is it's true i mean like i don't know who was around when you started but you just never knew when someone was going to pop well i was saying the other on i think on the uh yeah bill maher show he was talking about the idea of saturday night live right and being from here, from Los Angeles, live television meant nothing to me. Yeah. Because there was no such thing.

Yeah. So if somebody snuck... Except the telethon. The telethon. And that was done from here in real time. Right. But if a show was done in New York, it was always, you never saw the disaster.

So to me, live was the tonight show right they didn't stop tape if you were horrible that's what went out do you it's interesting when i watch those old tonight shows how like how strange it really was it was because people just talked and it could go either way, and people could just flail. Well, it's interesting because the 90-minute version was more like that. Right. And the last half hour was always the author and the guest that wasn't that great. Right, right.

But there was more talking. But I never noticed before that people like Rodney Dangerfield and like Rickles were they were drowning from the get-go that was their whole charm well rodney dangerfield basically just did his a stand-up sitting right until he ran out i never recall him talking yeah but rickles even though it was probably part of his act yeah he you never knew where he was going right and it might have been the same thing he said three nights ago at the Riviera. Yeah. But it didn't feel that way. Yeah.

Did you like him? Of course. How could you not like him? You know, because he was dangerous. Yeah. Here he is. Here's the coffee. Come on in.

Happy birthday. This was all a surprise, come on in put it on the table your last podcast oh wait i finally you're the right one apple didn't tell you huh you're not involved in apple no well they put it i know they put it up yeah yeah thank you very Thank you very much. But I, well, I was, I remember I was trying to think when I first started to have the experience of your stuff. And it was because of those SNL short films because they stood out more than the entire show. Well, in your opinion, and I thank you for it. But it was just, I remember watching it when I was a kid, that first season, I guess. And they would come on, you're like, now what's happening? And it was you.

Yeah, yeah. The one was you yeah the one I remember the one with the what was it a joke store with the woman with she was wearing the nose and you know I don't know that that was my film but I've learned over the years that if you liked it I'm taking credit I never correct people if they like no I remember the films but what was the agreement with Lorne the agreement with Lorne was i would do six short films yeah i would do them from los angeles yeah uh they were supposedly contracted to run before midnight yeah and they were supposed to be three to five minutes and uh i did one much, and he rightly was upset. Yeah.

It was 13 minutes. It was the open-heart surgery. Yeah. I don't think they would have run it, but Rob Reiner hosted, and he insisted, so they ran it with a commercial. Uh-huh. But that was the agreement. Did that cause trouble? But that was the agreement.

And did that cause trouble? Well, I don't, you know, I mean, I don't know what Rob and Lauren, if they have an issue today. But Rob said, no, you have to do it, which was nice. But by the way, I understood. Lauren didn't want 13 minutes. And that was probably my fault for going over. But the film, it just warranted it. It aired in its entirety. With a commercial in the middle.

Right. Did that bother you? No, because it was that or nothing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, I've talked to Rob, you know, and I've heard you talk with Rob because I watched a documentary. You know, there are these stories, the main story about the bad escape artist and everything.

But then I started to wonder, when you were a kid, were you over at their house all the time? No, no. I didn't even meet him until high school. Yeah. So in high school, I was. I had lost my dad. And Carl was like a surrogate father. So was that part of the dynamic between you and

Rob? I mean, did he, did he sense that? Did you feel like, you know, come stay at my house, you know, it's fun and, you know. No, Rob was dealing with his own issues of being Carl Reiner's son, natural issues. Yeah. So, you know, Rob was on one track, but I wasn't the son. Yeah. So I sort of had my own dynamic. Right. He was Carl, and I could go hang out if Rob wasn't there. Oh, I see. Yeah, he was like, you know. He was happy to have you.

Like a surrogate dad. Come in and entertain? Well, I didn't have to entertain. I mean, it was sort of tempting to see, especially if he had Mel and other famous comic people. Hanging around? Yeah, and people would sit around and talk, and eventually everybody would be funny, and then you would find out, I can be funny too here. But when you were like a real little kid before your father died, whatever your memories were,

I mean, who was hanging around the house? By the time I was born, my father was basically out of, he was retired from show business. Right. His connection was the Friars Club. Yeah. Which was the original club on Rodale Drive. Yeah. And he loved that.

Yeah. But he didn't really do much of anything. He was sick and he didn't do much of any show business work anymore except for these roasts yeah and that's what he loved and that's where he died but did you go to them as a kid no no i never went to them no i was i was nine you don't go what about your brothers how old were they my brother was uh when my father died my middle brother Bob was 16, I think. Oh, so he was. Yeah, and my brother Cliff was 18, 19.

So they had had much more time with him. Yeah, and Cliff was from another marriage? No. Oh. I had a half-brother, much older, Charles, sports writer. He was from, my dad was married as i was told for eight seconds yeah and then and that did and had a child and that didn't work but he was looped in he wasn't you know we weren't we would visit him occasionally he i remember uh he

he was the sports writer for the San Francisco Chronicle. Yeah. And then I think because of his kid's health, he moved to Camelback Mountain, Arizona. In Arizona. And I remember going there as a kid a couple of times to visit him. Oh, yeah. But he wasn't like an estranged person. He was just a little older.

No, we knew who he was. But he wasn't the third the fourth brother right but he was you know but i he was really great guy to me and i i loved him but he uh he wasn't like a fourth brother sure it was a half brother yeah sort of saw okay yeah and so when when your dad when you finally become your conscious person, your dad's been your whole life. Yeah. It still just fascinates me that there's this community of show business that you grew up in, really. Yeah. Well, more because of knowing Rob and his father, if anything, because, you know, Rob would take me down to the Dick Van Dyke show and watch it and run lines with the actors and stuff like that.

I know what you're asking. When I was very young, Eddie Cantor did come over once. And I remember making him laugh. I probably was five. And I answered the door and he said, and I answered the door and he said, this is my son Albert. Hello, Albert. And I said, hi, Mr. Cantor, we just had Apple Schneider.

And that's what I thought it was called and Eddie went, ha ha, he's very funny, Pocky. See that? That's an important nugget. Well, I didn't go back to my room going i can make it i didn't i wasn't thinking that way yet but i guess i just i have this fascination with uh you know those generations because it seems that like like your father like eddie canter you know

he was way back way back and then like when then when you start actually doing comedy, you're in the middle of some changing of the guard from the late 60s to the early 70s. Yes. I started on Steve Allen, which was also a guy who started way back but was still going then. Right. A lot of them. All those variety shows. Yeah. Well, that's what I did.

Before, people think I started on Johnny Carson. I didn't do Johnny Carson until 100 shows. Like the mid-70s, right? Yeah, like 70, maybe 72, I think, 73. Right. But I had done, for example, when Merv Griffin went to CBS. Yeah. I did 13 of those shows.

Really? Those were like the place to go fuck around. Right. Sitting in the half circle. Wasn't it like him and there were four chairs? No. He had a desk. Oh, he did?

Yeah. I'm thinking of Mike Douglas. I did him too. I hosted for a week. There were all kinds of weird shows to do. There was a guy named Dennis Holy. Yeah. The Dennis Holy Show.

Yeah. Cincinnati. Right. You just go do that. That's what you do. But how does it sort of start? Because one of the things that always airs is a gap. And I know you know my friend Cliff Nesterov.

I do. He texted me to congratulate me on talking to you. And I said, how'd you find out? And he said, I work with him on the thing. Great historian, that guy. Oh, amazing. Did you read that new book i did it's great yeah i'm gonna moderate him in new york yeah oh no no he's he he he's the current uh encyclopedia he's the only one yeah well there might be another guy but we don't meet him yet yeah no he's because he doesn't write he just collects things in play, he comes in with a gun.

And that's the end of Cliff. Yeah. But there's this jump from you at Carl Reiner's house, behind the curtain, to you on Carson, generally, in the history of Albert. Okay, because most of what I... Okay, I can give it to you briefly. No, no, we have time. No, I'm just saying I can give you this jump.

No, no, we have time. No, I'm just saying I can give you this jump. I started in sort of mid-68 on, I might have done something in 67. I think I did a local show in 67. But did you go to college? I did, but I dropped out. But it was like acting, right? Yeah, I went to LA City College for a year.

Then I auditioned and got into Carnegie Tech. In Pittsburgh. In Pittsburgh. And that was a big acting program. It was a big acting program. So you went there for how long? About a year and a half. But is that where you got, like, did you start being funny there? Were you writing?

No, I was funny in high school. Oh, I know. I heard that. funny there were you writing well i was funny in high school oh i know i heard that but no i mean i learned a lot there because you you there were classes in mime and movement and dance and stage building i mean so you learned all the things to make fun of exactly you need you need a toolkit before you can screw with it i mean i really mean that who was there like because i know there were people okay uh there was an actor charlie haid was in my class steve bochco was in my class really yeah uh wicked steven schwartz yeah he was there too he was there too i'm leaving

out so was mckean Yes, but not with me. But he went there. Yeah, so you didn't know him. Not at Carnegie, no. Huh. Isn't that wild? Yeah. And so you're there, but was there a thought that you were going to write comedy and do comedy?

Or you just thought you were going to be an actor? I was actually writing comedy there. I had a job there there was a at the time out of los angeles there was a radio syndicate that would do bits for all the disc jockeys oh yeah yeah yeah so i would send in bits and get a check really i think that's how new heart started well i think it was a thing it was amazing and then one of the reasons i didn't stay in school was because during one of the summers, the first summer, I stayed and was an actor in a dinner theater show. Yeah, yeah. And I remember because it was the group that was basically the Mr. Rogers group.

Okay. You know, the— The actual Mr. Rogers group. mr rogers group okay you know the actual mr rogers yeah he wasn't in it but his writers and the and the musician from the show they were famous putting on a comedy dinner theater show and i asked them if i could do my own each actor had a moment by themselves yeah and they wrote me something and i said i could i write it myself let's just do it i think that pittsburgh knows what they're doing yeah so i bombed so badly the opening night and then they begged me why didn't you write your opening thing yourself but the fact

is that i never left so when it started the next year it felt like i'd been there three years right and then i had a great teacher my favorite who brought me into his office he and his wife were both teachers yeah and he said we're leaving and if anybody should go start this thing i think you should so you know just go start your career. Oh, really? So when a teacher you respect that much, I just thought. Yeah. Yeah, I remember when I was at the comedy store in the mid-'80s and I was doing too much cocaine, the drug dealer said I should leave.

It's very similar. Yeah. He said, you you gotta get out i think the moral is sometimes a man says something and you listen yeah but anyway so i came back here and i wanted to only to be an actor i never wanted to do stand-up yeah i see that's what was interesting about watching the documentary is that you know like uh you know chris rock, like, I can't believe you didn't work that out of clubs. It's like, well, it's not stand up in essence. Well, it is stand up because you have you have.

Yeah. But you have three and a half minutes alone if you are terrible. But I mean, where were you going to do that kind of stuff at a club at that time? I guess you could go to. I guess anything I did on television, I could do in a club. Sure. I could do my dummy bit. Yeah. I could, you know, stuff with live animals I'm not going to do.

Right. But most of the stuff I did, I could do in a club. Yeah, but you didn't want to. I just never liked it. I never, I didn't, I got used, listen, one of the differences between now and then, and I hate that kind of thing because it just makes us all sound old. Right. So I'm not saying it was, well, I am saying it was better. It was better for one reason.

There were no opinions. There were no algorithms. Yeah. There were individuals. Right. opinions yeah there were no algorithms yeah there were individuals right and if you pat and if the individual if on the mark maron show mark maron liked you yeah you were on the show right there was no other choice right and so all that's the only test i had to pass and i did a lot of stuff with steve allen and the first couple of times the audience

didn't laugh at all what were you doing well then when i did that mime oh yeah they they didn't laugh until he started to cackle and then they realized yeah and then it becomes another dynamic then it's almost good because they're not laughing right yeah yeah yeah and and most people they don't know what's happening yeah they they think like well this is sad this mime is really not doing well right but you just need that you need the boss yeah to and and it was the same with movies yeah you could make a move you know you could make a movie if one person said fuck it he's funny let him go do it yeah they're not it's much different now as long as they don't lose a lot of money yeah but i don't think individuals give goes anymore

yeah there's huge opinion machines sure but there is there is the capacity now to generate content on your own that's and that's the difference and that's what I would have been doing. Sure. Because, you know, when I was a freshman in high school, I had a CB radio. Oh, yeah. And I would come home religiously, and 4 o'clock was my show. On the CB radio for truckers. And I was on a street where there were no trucks. So there was nobody that was ever listening.

But I would take the talk button down yeah it's the al einstein show good afternoon and i would do an hour with records religiously to nobody so if if there was youtube believe me i'd be on it to nobody no feedback no one no indication anyone let me tell you a great great story yeah so i wanted to get a job in high school there was an fm station in long beach yeah and they needed an all-night guy yeah so i went down at nine at night to interview with a guy that was on the air yeah and he's the only one there. Yeah. Now, these disc jockeys,

they're the same all over the world. Right. They have this imagination that the world is listening. Right. And this guy had a map of the United States behind him. And there were these circles in different colors. So from California to Chicago was a blue circle.

Yeah. From California to Nevada was an blue circle yeah from california to nevada was an orange circle from california to sacramento was a red circle during a record i said what is that well that's our reach so on the weekend we go to chicago as easily as as here yeah, it travels. In the daytime, we're to Las Vegas, but 24-7, we go through California. If you were up in Sacramento, you'd listen as easy as you would here. So the potential audience at any time at this station

is 150 to 170 million people. Wow, Okay. Anyway, let me finish this up, then we'll sit down and talk. Give me 20, make yourself at home. Nobody's at this little station. So I wandered around. I go into the transmitter room

and all these cabinets, and I opened a cabinet, and to this day, I never heard that exact electronic noise of an entire transmitter shutting down. It, pooo! And every needle went to zero. And I'm frozen in there. And in about 20 seconds, he, what did you do?

What the fuck did you do? I don't know. I just, I wanted to see. You opened a cabinet? So now he's off the air. He doesn't know how to get back on the air. It's not as easy as closing the cabinet. Mark, we sat there for an hour.

Nobody called. The phone didn't ring once. And he's in front of a coverage map of 180 million people We sat there for an hour. Nobody called. The phone didn't ring once. And he's in front of a coverage map of 180 million people, and no one called. Finally, after an hour, he called the owner who was sleeping. Hey, it's Bob. What's the matter? I don't think we're on the air. What?

I'm hearing through the other end of the phone. You're on the air now? Well, something happened. Fuck didn't get the job but to this day it was the most memorable moment of a man's life just folding and bullshit in front of my eyes but i guess my point is i was trying to do everything like that behind the curtain yeah and and i did get a job there was a big station in los angeles called kmpc and in high school i got a job at the sports desk where i could leave on the phone the scores yeah and that was a thrill it was almost like a show yeah yeah good evening everybody well the dodgers you know yeah and then i started to do bits on the weekend with some of

the djs yeah so there was this wonderful man named bob arbogast he's actually in the famous school for comedians film i made oh yeah yeah he's yeah, yeah. He's the spit take class. Oh, I saw that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we got an actual job together in 68 writing this show called Turn On. Yeah. Which to this day ran once and only on the East Coast. Do you have a copy of it?

No, but it's going to be on youtube because george slaughter just announced oh he found it well it's his show he's got him yeah they did a year yeah and we all were at a big festive dinner at the beverly hilton for the west coast premiere yeah and it aired in the east and then an hour later people started whispering it's like they just didn't air it anymore they took it off in new york after it aired they didn't air it in california why because they didn't like it i don't know it was supposedly a comedy show run by a computer and it had a computer soundtrack that's prescient it was. It's about to happen. I guess.

And you know, he had done Laugh-In. Sure. Do you hear that outside? A little bit. Do you want to tell him to stop? What, the vacuum? Yeah. All right.

We're in a hotel and there's a vacuum outside. That's great. Mark's going to ask them to not vacuum, which means that a guest is going to check in here and see a filthy room and ask for their money back. And the guest is going to say, the hotel's going to say, they're doing a renovation. Yes, it's actually a salon.

So you write the the turn on show yeah so uh that was the first thing i yeah actually and also in late 68 i i maybe it was i don't remember it was 68 or january 69 i did a voice on hot wheels also with Bob Arbogast. I think he may have gotten me that job. Well, so the radio thing kind of moves through you because it's on the records, too. There's a play on radio. You liked radio.

I do, because that was my father's life. We used to have these big 16-inch records of his radio shows. And I would bring my friends home occasionally from school and play one. He used to have these big 16-inch records of his radio shows. Yeah. And I would bring my friends home occasionally from school and play one. Well, there is something beautiful about radio, right? I love radio. And when your dad was doing it, it was pre-TV? Yeah.

He was big in the early 40s, so yes. So it's interesting. So he was there from the transition from radio to television. And he would have gone into television if his health could have handled it he did one he did a playhouse 90 that my brother charles my half-brother charles wrote really yeah so i remember him as an actor but you just didn't see him in anything when i was born yeah he just you know but he was like all that he was part of the whole crew he was i mean he used to tell you work for al he was the comic on al jolson show wow and even as a little kid he was we were told that al jolson was this terribly horrible man who if anybody on his show my dad once told a story that he was cracking

people up in the dressing room and al jolson came in and said keep it quiet in here there's a show about to start he just didn't you can drive by hillside on your way to the airport yeah and you'll see a 900 foot statue statue. That's his monument. So that says everything you need to know. About him? Yeah. That's so wild. So I used to work on the radio with Gary Owens. Yeah, yeah.

And I had that dummy bit. And I came up with that just at a party with my friends. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And Gary Owens, there was cbs afternoon show in los angeles there was a weatherman named bill keen and he had a show a little talk show called keen at noon yeah and he wasn't there for two weeks and gary owens took over yeah and gary owens said hey want to come on and do that uh dummy thing and i did and that was basically the first time i did it on television how old were you 21 yeah yeah 2021 yeah and from that got a kinescope

found an agent and then i immediately got that in three months later three Steve Allen shows that's how they booked them three at once no I did the dummy and they liked it and gave me two more and I had to come up now with two more things which I did and then got the tape of that now i had an agent of william morris and that was shown everywhere and then i got offered ed sullivan hollywood palace dean martin yes and i chose dean martin yeah so i did the dean martin show in the fall of 68 and the producer of that show said you got other stuff and i said yeah which you say when you don't yeah he said you got six summer shows wow so he booked me on the dean martin gold digger show for 69 yeah and i had four months to decide what kind of comedian am i yeah what do i want to do? So I liked these bits. I liked these, you know, I could almost like scenes in a movie in my mind. And I came in about three weeks before the show.

He wanted to see what I had come up with. Right. And I did three things and he looked at me and he said here's what i'm thinking yeah he said you're here and he put his hand up very high yeah and the audience is here and he put his hand down low yeah and he said you're gonna have a lot of trouble in your life and i and i said i don't know what you're talking about. This is all I think is funny. And he was a very dramatic guy, and he looked at me for a long time, and he went, do it.

I just wanted to hear you say that. He said, if you were my son, I wouldn't let you do it, because I know what's ahead. But I went and I did that. That's the second time a man has told you something. Oh, I've had men tell me things. I mean, you know. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's either a man or a woman.

Someone's always telling you something. But so. But so anyway. He knew. He just wanted to see that I loved it. Yeah. That, you know, because I do believe that if you can talk somebody out of anything they shouldn't be doing it right that's true especially in show business what was the first thing you did on the

d martin i did the dummy okay the first thing i did on his show then i did did it kill yeah yeah yeah the dummy never didn't kill yeah the dummy was like a beatles song i mean i could do it in japan it just worked yeah it was it was just like right but you know i didn't want to keep doing it because then you're that guy yeah yeah but i came up with uh my bits on i came up that were the elephant trainer where the elephant i had to use another live animal. I had another one of those kinds of things that I wanted to see in the documentary, but it didn't fit, which was the Albert Brooks Big Band. How did that go? Well, there was a whole band behind me, but nobody was there.

me but nobody was there and i said that the we were in chicago and the bus broke down and i flew and i don't normally like to do that because it's rude to the band right but anyway look the show has to go on so i did the whole thing with my mouth i did blue moon did that kill it kill yeah and i'd point to the different seats boom boom boom boom boom boom boom boom boom boom boom boom and i had a solo and i said look at the sticks look at the sticks yeah and uh what else i did the elephant i did the big band i did a terrible pickpocket i did uh but it all landed right it was it was great and was dean nice dean wasn't part of the summer show oh he wasn't there oh so he you know he was fine was there a host yes it was his daughter oh dina martin yeah paul lind yeah it was you know one of

three hosts he was funny right he was funny, right? He was funny. I only met him once. I met him in the hallway of NBC. Yeah. And I walked past and I said, Hi, Mr. Lind. How you doing? I swear to God, he said,

Don't you just want to be home sometimes in bed and eat yourself to death? I guess so that was it they would man they would use him when nothing else would work just the way the way he would deliver that line that poor guy had to make everything into a joke. Oh, my God, I asked for salad. Just a line. All right, Paul, and this is the closing line. Let me see what it is.

That's no dog. That's his purse. Okay, let's do it. He just got a... He delivered it. He did it. Yeah, no, he delivered it great. Okay, so you do those four Dean shows.

No, I did six summer shows, and then I did the variety television circuit. Right. Everything. Ed Sullivan, Hollywood Palace, Johnny Cash, the variety television circuit right everything ed sullivan hollywood palace johnny cash everly brothers helen reddy flip wilson all the shows one one one one one one one two and a half years of that then i did a johnny carson show wow You know, the thing is, you do Ed Sullivan. Right.

So Ed Sullivan on paper, 45 million people watch. Right. But the crazy thing is, you don't feel that. Yeah. The next day. But if you do a Johnny Carson show, the next day in your world, everywhere you go, show you on that, show you on on that because that's the bubble yeah so it was a much bigger deal because the next day the dry cleaner saw you right they give the woman

in the market saw you the whole country watched ed sullivan but southern california places like that the tonight show was the bigger show wow so when you did carson were you like and also like i just it's curious to me because still we're going into the 60s right so you still like i imagine on some of these shows you had these old guys like buddy epson and people like just showing up to do bits and things right you were always on with an older guy right there was always somebody like that on the panel with you oh yeah i was always the youngest person and it's so wild when you're a younger person because i just remember it myself when i'm doing you know some of those talk shows where you see those guys in person you're like oh

my god i i never really i guess because maybe because that i probably did get from my dad that I already knew what, Oh my God looked like. So it wasn't a big deal to me. I mean, I didn't ever look at someone and go, Oh my God, like how old he got. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. And you were focused on your own shit. But let me tell you a story I've never told. Yeah. Such a meaningful story. Uh, Harry share. And I produced my second record called a star is bought and that was a record where it was like it was done sort of after the motown story

where it was a documentary about myself yeah the conceit of the record was that we were going to make a cut to be played on every different kind of radio station so this would become the biggest record ever made right so we made one for blues for fm one for classical music and the one for old time radio we claim that we discovered my prenatal work yeah now i loved jack benny yeah that was my comedy hero yeah and harry would what did was jack benny as a boy on his television show right so we both had this connection but i had been on a show with jack benny and he was so nice to me on the show he did something mark i was on a tonight show with him and i think i did the elephant bit yeah and at the end of the show during the last commercial uh johnny leans over and he says jack do you want me to plug a woman to say any specific good nights and jack said

ask me where i'm gonna be will you yeah so it comes back and the piano's tingling and johnny says albert brooks thank you way newton jack where you where are you gonna be and jack benny said never mind about me this is the funniest kid i've ever seen so now your idol teaches you oh you can be that. So generosity works. Great. Okay. So we go to see Jack Benny because I'm doing, we found the so-called Albert Brooks show. Right.

And we produced this great old time radio show with much of the actors that worked on my dad and the real orchestra and the great tinny sound. And I wanted to have a feud with jack benny yeah so we get in a meeting with jack benny on tuesday he dies that friday which nobody knew meeting him yeah but we're sitting in his office and i say to him so so Mr. Benny, I'm doing a record album and on this record album, I would love if you would do something because we're doing this old time radio and I never got any other word out. My hero says to me three days before he dies, radio, radio radio that's all i'm remembered for i've done everything i've done television i've done movies and i'm going i don't even know you from radio oh my god

no no i know that i know that and harry and i left i drove home mark a profound, maybe one of the most profound lessons of my life, which is you better not hold on to anything. Yeah. Because if the king, if the god of comedy, in my mind, doesn't even know three days before he dies how important he was, if he's still going. And you know you you and i get it as we get older i'm happy it's happening to me now okay so you just can't go there if you try to hold on to your life you're gonna be really sad you can't do it it's impossible so for whatever reason and i'm saying maybe because he had stomach cancer yeah and maybe he was just feeling shitty yeah maybe on a normal day he never would have said

that but just to hear somebody your idol telling you you're a nobody who you are i just said i'm never going to play that game i'm never going to do it well but isn't that thing in his head because it was an insecurity he was misunderstanding he didn't you know he didn't yes it was an insecurity and I'll say maybe he was ill and that's what did it but Jack Benny I know it should be insecure right so so you know when you're when you're in your 20s and you see this happen in front of you, if you're smart, I think you go, I'm not going to play that game. I am not going to assume that anybody will ever know me at all. It ain't going to happen.

And if it does, great. It's an accident. And if they like it thank you that's why i compliment what's why i said thank you when you complimented me on a film i didn't make yeah i'll just take what i can and that's all i could do but you were able to apply that at that age i mean you really were i stored it and i and i have pretty much lived it i I don't, I have no expectations of anyone remembering anything ever. I just don't, I don't care.

But what about the other thing? Because what I was dealing with, like I just did four shows in Denver on Friday and Saturday. Yeah. Long shows and the stuff I'm doing takes a lot of investment, a lot of honesty and whatever. So I'm exhausted. Yeah. Now, when I talked to you, when I saw you at Sarah's party a lot of investment, a lot of honesty and whatever. So I'm exhausted.

Now, when I saw you at Sarah's party a couple years ago and I told you I was going to the comedy store, you're like, you still go. Well, I was half jealous and half amazed. But here's the question is that what I'm starting to realize, and I always knew and I imagine you always knew, is that whatever you expect, this is the other side of what you're talking about emotionally to come back to you from performing it's not going to come no it's not if it does come you have a lonely life if you're getting your emotional fill from an audience yeah i'm happy for you but that's not where not where it would be okay for me. And I almost envied people that could do it. Yeah, I could never do it. I wish I could do it. Yeah.

You know? Yeah. Well, I always thought that my job was to sort of slightly alienate them and then try to get them back. That's how I grew up. Well, that's like a great exercise. I'm a professional at it now. Gary Shandling called me like two weeks before he died.

Yeah. He'd been going down to the... Huntington, the one in the beach, Comedy Magic. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he said, I think I invented a new kind of comedy. I said, what? He said, it's fascinating. I'm up there for the whole time without one laugh.

And I said, Gary, you invented drama. Yeah. I said, it's the other part of the mass. Yeah. I don't think this is an adventure. But he was so fascinated that he could talk and nobody reacted. He was so tickled with that. Really?

Well, that's a good reaction to it. But I used to watch George Burns at 100. And even in that Don Rickles documentary, you see him backstage. You can barely walk. The light hits. He's like 20. Right. And I wish I got that enjoyment out of it yeah you

never did no i never did and not i got enjoyment out of making movies and doing other things but the live thing and i it's one of the reasons i thought maybe i should try it again to see because people keep saying it's different now it's different now oh really but when did you actually do the touring stand-up i mean because okay about about so about five years into working on television i got a call from neil diamond yeah and to open for him and that became a regular gig okay so that was the first time i ever went and did that and the first four weeks of doing shows i was doing my tv bits like an impressionist i do a bit i turn around i do another bit yeah and then after about a month i started talking to them and then after about

three months i was just talking to them yeah but you know i didn't it took me a while to to use that arena yeah and and to feel comfortable doing it did you hear that five dollars yeah right right and and by the way i liked it yeah but then when i had to tour, I didn't want to go on. My first record, you had to go out and promote or they wouldn't promote. Right. And I didn't choose to do that, and I watched it fail, and then I booked all these clubs late, and it was too late. The record company had passed me. But that's, you know, i spent a long time on the road

by myself there was that circuit that you would do the troubadour the bitter end yeah the cellar door right paul's mall and what are you doing like 30 40 or 50 minutes no i was the headliner i did an hour i did an hour two shows three on the weekend right which was insane yeah i never understood that i all i wanted to do was get up there and say good evening please run and find the other people that were here earlier yeah just ask them i promise you it went well the uh so so that wasn't for you no i, I liked it during the hour. Sure. But the waiting and the loneliness?

No, it just didn't. I think it's, you know, when you start to think that you can possibly make films, then you think, well, that makes sense. You put your blood here, and then at least it's there. And you have total control. You're not worrying about an audience. You can make decisions. Well, by the way, as it turns out, I think you have more control doing stand-up than anywhere anymore right you know yeah yeah it's hard to get total control anymore but yes i had total control

because i was in it yeah so if they wanted something that i didn't like i would say you have to find someone who looks like me right yeah so was. So was it when you got Georgie Jessel on that one record? Yeah. I mean, you know, that was great. He did it. He was happy to do it. Oh, that's so funny. So the first movie, like, what was the,

you think it came from that short film that made you do real life? Well, the first movie actually i was working with uh harry scherer and monica johnson and i came up with a movie that we actually wrote that i didn't make because it was becoming too complicated what What was that? It was, remember Werner Erhardt? Yep. Okay, so it was a guy like Werner Erhardt who whole gimmick was how to program your dreams. Right. And.

So it was an Est riff? It was Est. Yeah. And the whole reason to make the movie was the image of 200 people sleeping and he'd walk amongst them. Yeah. And, you know, we had a phrase, be your own REM, R-E-M brand.

And it was a cool story, but I worried every time I went home because I didn't know that I could direct it. It seemed like I was riding past the point at which I was comfortable. And then one day I saw a Margaret Mead quote about the Loud family, which is at the end of the real life. And it was such a profound quote. This is, I believe, as new and as significant as drama or the novel, a new way in which to look at life by seeing the real life of others portrayed by the camera. And then so my movie was we go one step further. We not only see the real life of others, but the real life of the camera.

And so then I became excited about doing that. And that I thought I could direct but I even got scared after I got a go and I went to Carl Reiner and I said do you want to direct this and he read it and bless his heart he said

you have to direct this yeah I can't do this yeah you know you this is you you do this so that was so funny I can't do this. This is you. You do this. So that became. It was so funny. It is so funny. I always talk about the scene where Grodin's trying to negotiate with you to take the.

The dead horse out. Yeah. Was Algy hook up with Grodin? Ever since I saw him on candid camera, I thought he was the most natural actor i'd ever seen and i just liked him and he's funny too right he's funny and he's real yeah and you know he can play that guy and and i just went to him and he said yes and and the difference between obviously there's a lot of differences, but between doing bits and doing live comedy is that you can really work the whole thing out, right? Well, actually, doing live comedy without trying it out in front of an audience

is perfect for movies because you can't really try a movie out in front of an audience. It just reinforces what you think is funny. So you believed. You have to. Yeah. You have to. Yeah. If you lose that, you're done.

And let me tell you something. There are examples of filmmakers who have written stories about their lives that were important to them. And they make the movie yeah and then the movie ends in a certain way that their life ended and that's why they wanted to make it and the studio tests it and the ending seems too down yeah and they convince the filmmaker to do an ending that has nothing to do with his life, and he does, and the film makes $200 million, that filmmaker's done.

Yeah. Because their compass is out the window. Right. Then the next time they sit down to write, well, gee, I don't know, the last movie ended where I ate an elephant. What should I do now? Yeah.

You marry the elephant. But I'm saying, once you give that that up in the kind of movies i made if i had to give that up and a couple of movies i had to give them up after they were made i i made i wrote a movie i didn't direct it called the scout about a baseball right. Right, right, yeah. And it ended a certain elegant way. And the studio, it was a nightmare for me. Yeah. Because they didn't like the ending and they made the director,

you don't have to see the movie, but it was a scout who was banished to Mexico and found the greatest baseball player ever done. Brendan Fraser played him. And this guy was nuts and had a breakdown and couldn't even play. And the scout took him to a shrink and finally got him to play. And the movie ended where all he had to do, he just didn't want to play but he took the mound and he did one pitch at 110 miles an hour yeah and that was the end of the movie well the studio said not good enough

put the whole game put the big game which defeats the purpose they put on michael richie bless his heart did a version of a nine inning world Series game where this guy was hitting and pitching. And I begged the studio. I said, I'm going to get the bad review. You won't even remember this. Sure enough, remember the New York Times, why would Albert Brooks write such a corny ending? So the few times where that's happened, I've been kicked in the ass for it i don't mind getting kicked in the ass if i get my movie made that i want yeah then then that's okay what am i going

to do right it's like you do a bit that you like if they don't like it then what are you going to do yeah suck it up right yeah but i think it's very interesting that that the training that you got from rehearsing the stuff that you did on television once, that that confidence and that focus and then having it work gave you the confidence to stay with you through your whole life. Mark, I don't know how somebody starts today and with social media and they do something and then they go home and if they're tempted read what people say because to me that's just pouring gasoline on a career i mean in a bad way smothering them killing them i i never wanted i didn't want your opinion yeah who what do i care what you think i i get the boss is laughing i like it that. That's it. Right. And also, I think that's what inspired so many people to do like, you know, ballsy comedy, take risks. Like I know guys, and I imagine you had an impact on Kaufman and on, you know, well,

I mean, there's certain people in your contemporaries. He was once very nice. He came up to me once after a show and said, you're the reason I got into this. He was very nice to me. Yeah. And David Cross, my friend, also a guy who I started with, who was a fan of yours. And he believed. I remember one time I was interviewing him.

And he became big with Mr. Show and a bunch of other stuff. And we started together. I remember years ago, I was on radio. And I had done stand-up with him for years. And I said, who would have ever thought you'd be the guy guy and he looked at me and goes i did yeah well i mean you know you have to don't you i guess so yeah i mean i guess you're gonna have a nice career if you don't but everyone along the way does i don't know what your brain's doing yeah but i mean there's so many people i when i met my wife i i was making mother and i took her to paramount and to i see my office yeah and there's a parking lot there with

4 000 cars in it yeah and she said what are who are all these people i said every one of these cars is someone trying to keep me from doing what i want it was true so that confidence kind of carried you so there's no movie that you did where you had all the decisions where you don't look at and say i i wish okay well i'll tell you in one movie but i acted in it the in-laws but but i it wasn't called that yeah so i got offered this movie to do with michael douglas called the wedding party right and we're gonna do and all i said was listen don't ever call it the in-laws because the-Laws wasn't my holy grail, but there were so many movie critics and so many people that remember that like it's their child. It's great. And it was called The Wedding Party.

Yeah. And they made a trailer called The Wedding Party. Yeah. Then they found out they were coming out the same day as Bruceuce almighty yeah which universal had jim carrey movie that's right yeah and the wedding party tested huge yeah and the guy that made it got cocky and and universal said to him you know we own the wedding party and all we want is don't come out the same day as bruce almighty And the guy said, fuck you. I'm testing 96.

I want that day. And they said, well, you can't have the title. And I got on the phone with Warners, with him, with Michael Douglas. I begged them. I said, please, guys, we're going to get one star taken off just for this title. these guys, we're going to get one star taken off just for this title. I said, you're going to see, I said, Michael, you're going to see the name Peter Falk right next to yours,

and we don't have to. And nobody cared. They just didn't care. They said, too bad, Michael, I like Michael. And he said, you know, critics are critics. They'll say whatever they want. I said, I know, but I know Roger Ebert and the in-laws is his holy grail, like michael and he said you know critics are critics they'll say whatever they want i said i know but i know roger ebert and the in-laws is his holy grail and and don't please it came out as the in-laws every review in america yeah well albert brooks is maybe as good as alan arkin but but not

really and michael douglas is no peter falk i said why are we reading these names you promised so that's something that I had no control of but was it based on the in-laws? Yes it was a guy it was yes CIA guy and a dentist but if you call it the wedding party

you can do it but what about your movies all your movies except I wrote the muse right and i the studio i wrote it for didn't choose to make it and i then had to go get money yeah and it had an ending i liked very much yeah where the sharon stone character the movie ended as i originally wrote it where a doctor and a nurse knocked on my door said she was from an asylum and wrapped her in a straight jacket and took her away and that was the end of the movie yeah and i went to Miramax and Miramax said, we'll make it, but we don't like that ending.

You know, so I added on a little more where she eventually became the head of Paramount and it was okay. I didn't like it as much as mine and Miramax didn't make the movie, but I had rewritten it for them them and then somebody else offered a better budget and they liked that rewritten script so that was literally it every other movie was exactly to the second to the word that i wanted and you do do you look back at any of them and think like well i could have done this or that i don't do that that. You don't. Because I don't, because I don't believe it. No,

I mean, why do it? Cause it's just, you've just beat. I don't even like watching it. No, I, I,

I like to think things are went well. And, and yeah, I mean, I think they did. They're all great. I mean, I watch them.

I watch a modern romance and the lost in America, at least once a year. I like looking for comedy of the muslim world yeah yeah that's more than than the release would suggest yeah the people did but that was a nightmare experience why me because the movie was bought by sony released by sony trailer was made we were on our way to the Toronto Film Festival. Yeah. And that summer was the Danish cartoons.

Oh, right. And all of a sudden, they won't use the word Muslim in the title. And I said, it's why I made it, just to show you that nobody will get killed. I'm the buffoon. Yeah. I'm the comedian that can't find the comedy.

It's not against it. We can't use it. So I said, I can't make it here. I mean, they sent us that, and we tried to make it. And Warner Independent, which had that Penguin movie, they did it and put $4 into it. So that was a disappointment. Yeah, well, that's what you learn. If no one's going to advertise, no one's going to come.

Right. When you're young, you think, oh, advertising doesn't mean anything. They'll hear about it, and then they'll talk about it. Nope. Nothing. You don't buy NFL football football nobody comes yeah yeah now defending your life and the and the mother movies were these because you talk about a little in the doc were these did you resolve personal uh issues with those movies in any way well defending your life i

didn't i mean look you know fear is always a big. I can't say that I got over fear because I made that movie. Yeah. And occasionally when I still find myself afraid, I think to myself, well, Jesus, if there is a court, if there's anything like what I said, can't I say I made the movie? Can't I? I may still be afraid, but I made the movie. Yeah. Can't that count yes mother was a was really you know what mother says is that these women who raised you gave up their life are not just mothers they're defeated people who had dreams yes and that was i i had to realize that before i made it and making it

felt even better because you know to see your parent like that i think there's a great line in mother where you know he the whole experiment is mother i no longer see you as i see you as a failure and it's wonderful yeah and was that your experience with your mom yeah yeah did she was she around when you made it yeah and you know and it was the time when entertainment weekly would let like a relative review it yeah and i actually she said honey they asked me to review it i said if you don't give it four stars i'm literally never going to talk oh i wouldn't yes you would you take a half a star away and say i wasn't standing up straight just give it four stars tell my mother that and she did yes yeah but did she see herself in the movie did she you know i took her to see it

and all she said was oh some of that reminds me of us yeah i said some of it name me one moment that does you know well they don't always see it that way they don't it's weird no i my mother a couple years ago in in uh when i'm going down there tomorrow to Thanksgiving, and I cook. Where is down there? In Florida. Oh. But I remember I was just cutting vegetables, and casually she said, you know, Mark, when you were a baby, I don't think I knew how to love you. Oh, my God.

Wow, but that's a huge admission. Yeah, and it's like, thanks for the missing piece. No, I never. yeah and it's like thanks for the missing piece no i i never uh my mother once gave me the most amazing advice yeah when i i i saw the first time i ever saw a shrink yeah and you know that's not good news for them yeah i know you really need that do you really think you need that yes i think i need it yeah and she and but she said the most amazing thing she said well honey just remember the more truthful you are the more money you'll save wow i thought that's the greatest advice for a shrink i've ever heard and then she said do you want me to come with you

no i'm gonna talk about job without you there. Yeah. That's beautiful. Yeah. So do you want to make more movies? Well, I think about it. Part of the reason I loved the movies was the theaters. Yeah. They're back. They're coming back.

Well, they are. But up until now, anybody who would make a movie with me would pretty much do it streaming. And it's hard to make a movie. And the most fun part of it was finally sneaking into the back of the Bruin. Yeah, yeah. You know, like when you made a comedy album, if you didn't go to your friend's house and sit them down, you never, ever heard it with an audience. and sit them down, you never, ever heard it with an audience. And a movie, you could.

You could sneak in and, wow, this is playing. It's wonderful. That thing worked like I thought. You could watch it. And that was such an ingrained experience. So if I could make a deal with someone where I would know that there'd be theaters involved i might think of it again you know you have a script again i've got ideas yeah yeah with the with the book the the the story of what happened to america yeah was that conceived as a movie no but it was conceived as a book but it's being uh shopped possibly as a as a series uh it was

supposed to be it would make a very good limited series or even and before covid it had a hundred mile an hour traction and then after three years of no show business yeah it lost its momentum it just other things came in it became too expensive at the time yeah it's back being considered again yeah i would be willing to do i think that would be something that could be great yeah but i have ideas for movies i just have to you know i have to get all of the skin the tough skin back where'd it go the armor i it went into a comfortable chair in front of my computer and we and family and you know yeah i mean you know, but I think I'm going to be acting again soon. I'm in discussions with Jim Brooks to play a part in his new movie.

Oh, yeah? Yeah. And you like, because it seems that from the beginning you just wanted to be an actor, and when you act, you like being a serious actor. Well, I like it. Yeah i i mean i i enjoy it and and you know when i started as i

say it's all i wanted and a manager of another comedian once came up to me at a show a variety show and he said i know you want to be an actor, but I want to show you something. I swear to God, there was a blackboard. Yeah. And he took a piece of chalk and he drew a line. He said, that's the stage door. And then he drew little stick figures. Yeah.

He said, all those people are actors. Then he drew a stick figure in the back and he said, that's the comedian. Then he drew a line right to the front of the door he said if you if you're willing to do comedy that's and i swear to god mark i said give me the chalk i took one of the stick figures in line i drew a bubble yeah hey why did that asshole butted line i gave him back the chalk he said what is this i said i don't know i thought we were playing like a game and and he was right but he was wrong i got in the door but i never got offered acting yeah and i got deeper and deeper and deeper into comedy and that's when i'm saying i'm on the road

in the winter in these clubs doing three shows a night in st louis going this isn't acting yeah you know yeah and also i guess that also when you do your own movie and you're doing some version of a comedic character that comes from you i mean you the challenge of doing real acting what do you have to do i don't care if it's a comedic character or not it's all acting right right i mean people say you know i don't care if you use your own name. Sure. I mean, let's use Jack Benny. Jack Benny on television

wasn't the Jack Benny you saw in his house. Right. It's a character. It is, but sometimes they're closer than that. They are close, but you're still doing something. You're putting on a coat. You have to act it. You have to be, you know you have to act it yeah you have to be

you know let's put it this way the greatest thing jack benny taught anybody was willing to watch was less little teeny so you know i don't believe if you were talking to jack benny in his home yeah and you said something odd he would look off to the side you know right but but his character knew how to do all of that perfectly yeah so you know it's it's all acting but the world the world thinks if you have another name and you have a gun you're a better actor right instead of mark if you're bob yeah and you're a serial killer, you're a better actor. Right. Instead of Mark, if you're Bob and you're a serial killer, somehow you're a better actor.

Yeah. It's meaningless. You either can present something real or you can't. And what do you use to do that? I mean, you just have it naturally? Do you still have like a, when you have to play a heavy, you know?

Well, I mean mean first of all it starts with the words yeah of course and i'm saying and and the situation yeah i mean i i had to convince nicholas ref and and drive comes out, people will believe me. They're not going to laugh at that. They're going to believe it. They have to see it first. If you're afraid, they're never going to see it. But if the story is part of it you come on you maybe you look

a certain way and then you follow the story yeah and and and if you're an actor and a good actor you meld into the story you don't stand out right you you're part of the story yeah so the i that was one of the things i learned at carnegie was right that teacher that i told you i love yeah that was something he taught i never forgot if he melded into the story well he was talking about being on stage and he gave an example he stood in front of a class and he said if you're not talking and you're waiting for your line but you're moving around a little bit he said you're diverting attention he said but if you're completely still and then and then the way he scared people he said and then and he and he would point yeah

yeah people jumped yeah you said your line yeah people give attention but it was an example of how to be quiet right because quiet is a huge part of acting yeah there are so many actors that can't be quiet you always see the engine running yeah and you don't want to see that you want it to until they need to you want quiet yeah and that's part of acting yeah people don't talk about it as much and listening too right well that's all 90 yeah because if you listen then you're gonna answer better and what was it uh how do you like working with judd i liked it yeah i mean you know i love judd yeah yeah judd judd's funny because when when you say what what he wants yeah then you can say stuff yeah and then they start yelling things to you

from video village right right try this say i don't think my schmeckle's that big and i would yell back i'm not gonna say schmeckle i don't want to say that in your movie because you'll use it. Yeah. So this part, do you know what it is? What the thing you're trying to get? Well, it's not for sure. So I don't like to be one of those guys. But I do know it's a governor of a state.

You know, Jim hasn't done a movie for many, many years. And he's certainly somebody when he calls, you've got to say, what? I'm interested. Yeah, yeah. He's great. And what about voiceover stuff? Are you doing any? I would do more if I got more calls.

Yeah, yeah. You know? I liked the cartoons. Yeah, they. You know? I liked the cartoons. Yeah, they're fun, right? Well, you know, it's funny in show business. Yeah. Because there's two things that they tell you in show business. How come I'm not getting this?

Well, you've got to do something, and then they'll hear you. So after finding Nemo, I wasn't getting a lot of voices. And I said to my agent what's the problem it was too famous it became too big right I said oh great so let me get this straight you can't do it because it's nothing and now you can't do it because it's too big all right see you later I can't do anything I'm supposed to be in a medium-sized failure, and then I'll work forever. Yeah, just right in the middle. Yeah. Well, it was great talking to you.

Mark, I enjoyed it. I think we did it. I hope at least we'll get some nice reaction. We will. But as we said to the audience, what a weekend. Yeah, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. There you go. Great, great right it was great i i i'll remember that one even if i don't listen to this i'll remember it again the documentary albert

brooks defending my life is streaming on max and thank you to melissa volpert and everyone at the georgian hotel for hosting us there. It was very nice. Hang out for a minute. It's hockey season and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get a nice rank on Uber Eats, but iced tea, ice cream, or just plain old ice yes we deliver those goaltenders no but chicken tenders yes because those are groceries and we deliver those

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in Rock City at torontorock.com. Okay, so last year I was in London and did a bunch of WTF interviews with guests while I was there, like this one with Rob Delaney from one year ago this week. And this is the second one I did with him, but this is a lot happened as many of you know i haven't done much stand-up post-pandemic uh because i've been fortunate to be doing a lot of acting work and i have young kids yeah and i after henry's death i don't uh you know i massively prioritize family time so i would love to be doing more stand-up but now with the book right acting haven't done much right doing a shitload up until up until the pandemic really but i've only been on stage yeah no the reason i specified i'm happy to be holding a mic is because i've been doing

things where projection was necessary for the last few months but it's always like a british head mic where where come on i want to hold my gun. You know what I mean? I didn't know there was a thing, a British head mic. You mean the TED Talk mic? Yeah, the TED Talk mic. The wraparound mic? Yeah, Brits love that. They'll do stand-up in one of those.

Jesus. Yeah, it always looks odd to me. It looks like, I always feel like that you're sort of expected to do magic or something. Yeah, a little trick. Pull a rabbit out of your hat. But I was looking at the, I haven't talked to you. No, it's been a long time. It was 2010. Is that true?

Is that fucking nuts? That's distressing. That's when that podcast, when we did that podcast. My Lord. But I don't feel like distant from you. No, I'm very abreast of all that you do. In fact. You're familiar to me.

Yeah, the bad guys is on heavy rotation in our house. You're so good in that. Thank Christ Mark Maron is doing cartoons because your voice is so just glorious. Oh, good. It's so good. That's episode 1387 with Rob Delaney, which also includes a short talk with Sam Lipsight. You can listen to that for free in whatever podcast app you're using and get all WTF episodes ad-free by signing up for WTF Plus. Just go to the link in the episode description or go to

WTFpod.com and click on WTF Plus. And now we will randomly select a guitar riff from the massive archives of improvised guitar riffs, some of them sounding much like the other. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. boomer lives monkey and the fonda cat angels everywhere all right all right all right