WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1503 - Billie Joe Armstrong

Episode Date: January 15, 2024

Billie Joe Armstrong and Green Day are heading out on a global tour as they celebrate the 30th anniversary of their breakout album Dookie, the 20th anniversary of American Idiot, and the release of their new album Saviors. Through it all, Billie Joe has tried to keep a healthy distance from fame while fronting one of the biggest bands of all time. Billie Joe and Marc talk about melodies, power pop, R.E.M., the Bay, his bandmates, and how he’s still learning songs on YouTube.Click here to submit your question for the next Ask Marc Anything bonus episode. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis and ACAS Creative. videos, start email campaigns, create special members only areas and connect all your social

media accounts. WTFpod.com is powered by Squarespace. So go check it out and see what Squarespace can do for you. Then head to squarespace.com slash WTF for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, use the offer code WTF to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. That's squarespace.com slash WTF. Yes. All right, let's do this. How are you? What the fuckers? What the fuck buddies?

What the fuck Knicks? What's happening? How's it going? How are you, what the fuckers? What the fuck, buddies? What the fuck, Knicks? What's happening? How's it going? What day is it? Is it Monday? Yes, Martin Luther King Day. Martin Luther King's Day. Think about it.

Think about what he represented. Think about what he talked about and how far we are away from it on some levels. Talking about stuff on stage that I don't talk about here. Trying to separate things. Trying to deal with the live element. I was at the Comedy Store the night before last. Working on some stuff.

Two nights ago. Chris Rock was there. Sitting there in the back, watching me. Punky from SNL was there, hanging out. There was a time where that would be pretty intimidating, but I had already done two sets, and I was lit up. And Chris actually had a tag for me. Helped me out with a tag.

Tagged one of my bits. I'll try it. Chris actually had a tag for me. Help me out with a tag. Tagged one of my bits. I'll try it. I'll let you know how it works. I'm not going to tell you the bit. If you want to see the bit, you can come see me. A lot of options. A lot of options.

Tour kicks off this month in San Diego at the Observatory North Park on Saturday, January 27th for two shows. Then I'm in San Francisco at the Castro Theater on Saturday, February 3rd. That's sold out. Pretty sure. I don't know why we didn't add a second one. I don't know. Portland, Maine. I'm at the State Theater on Thursday, March 7th. Medford, Massachusetts outside Boston at the Chevalier Theater on Friday, March 8th. Providence, Rhode Island at the Strand Theater on Saturday, March 9th. Tarrytown, New York at the Tarrytown Music Hall on Sunday, March 10th. Atlanta, Georgia, I'm at the Buckhead Theater on Friday, March 22nd. Madison, Wisconsin at the Barrymore again on Wednesday, April 3rd. Milwaukee, Wisconsin at the Turner Hall Ballroom

on Thursday, April 4th. Chicago at the Vic Theater on Friday, April 5th. And Minneapolis, I'm at the Pantages Theater on Saturday, April 6th. WTFpod.com slash tour. I got to bring this up too. We have another Ask Mark Anything episode coming up for full Marin subscribers. To ask a question, go click on the link in the episode description and submit your question on the Google form.

We'll also put the link on the WTF social media pages. So that'll be fun. Ask me anything. Ask me some questions. Billy Joe Armstrong is on the show today. He's the front man for the band green day. This year is the 30th anniversary of their breakout album, Dookie. It's the 20th anniversary of American Idiot. They're doing a global stadium tour this year to celebrate both. They're also releasing their 14th studio album,

Saviors. You know, you hear about people in terms of reputation with interviews, but, you know, something happened at the beginning that locked us in. And I don't know, I just got fortunate. I made some choices at the beginning in the conversation that I think kind of grounded him a bit, because I don't know if you can tell, but sometimes if I'm pulling teeth, it's hard for an hour. So the night before last, I didn't work. I didn't do stand-up because I wanted to go see Paris, Texas at the newly renovated Egyptian Theater in Hollywood. And Vim Vendors, the director, was going to be talking.

And I had just seen that movie. I talked about it here. And I had a revelation about the movie and about movies in general that's been ongoing because I've been using movies, high and lowbrow movies, I don't think as an escape, but as a way to contextualize my feelings and also as a way to get out of myself, certainly in the form of entertainment, but also to engage with art in an accessible way. I've seen many of the Oscar movies. and they've kind of reinvigorated some part of my younger self spirit in terms of assessing art. And I joined American Cinematheque, which was a great idea because now I get, you know, the announcements of what's going on. And they have several theaters here in LA and they're running all kinds of stuff.

So I went to see Paris, Texas at the new Egyptian theater with Kit and it's stunning, that theater. It's been around forever. Some of the first, I believe, maybe the first Hollywood premiere ever was at that theater. Seeing that movie on that size screen was great. Hearing Vim Vendors talk about it afterwards was great.

It's a very deliberate way of talking and he had some great stories. And just, you know, I come from a world of, you know, idolizing Sam Shepard's writing. You know, I come from a world where Harry Dean Stanton looms large as somebody who was part of a Hollywood that I revered and was curious about. Kit Carson, the writer who was married to Karen Black, who is also of that world of Hollywood that I found amazing. Their son, who plays Hunter, was spectacular.

But just the weaving of possibilities of what happened around that film and hearing Vim Vendors tell stories about Harry Dean Stanton's insecurity, Sam Shepard falling in love with Jessica Lange and sort of bailing on his commitment to how they were going to do the second part of the movie. It's all, it all means something to me. And it's not, I don't think it's, it means it's not nostalgia. The other thing that was interesting is there was discussion about the

music and how someone asked a question from the audience about the Americana nature of the Ry Cooder soundtrack. And it's like, that wasn't even a label of a type of music until later. And vendors was like, there was no Americana music at that time. No one had ever done a soundtrack like that. And you realize just how many people ripped off Ry Cooder. And he said that anytime it happened, Ry would get upset and call him and say, like, should I sue that guy? I mean, that, that sound, that opening riff of the Paris, Texas soundtrack has been ripped off and used everywhere. Commercials, other movies.

It was a groundbreaking movie cinematography wise. And it just, it was enriching. And I just, you know, there are times where I'll leave a discussion, but I wanted to learn. And there are things that I learned about his process. And as I think about directing a film, it's important for me to hear that stuff. Anyway, I guess in light of horrible things in the world, things that I have no control over, things that I can barely speak to because of the polarization of everybody. Everybody wants their voice to be represented by another voice, by a public voice. And everything is so polarized.

And there's no talking to the other side. You don't even know who the other side is anymore. But there's no kind of navigating. There's no diplomacy. There's no negotiating. You know, this is the bubble. This is my bubble, whatever you are. And it's a sad thing, ultimately, and will be the

death of democracy, if not the world. But I think that engaging in art is fine for me, and sometimes engaging in not art. I never watched the John Wick movie until the other night. I don't know what's happening to me. I don't know what's happening. But I watched the first John Wick movie without knowing what it was about. And I couldn't even get over that dog being murdered. A lot of people get murdered in that thing, but I'm telling you the dog for no reason, a puppy, Jesus fuck. They all had it coming. Whoever was attached to killing that puppy. I don't know if I watch more John Wick movies But I watch that one Alright you guys

So Billy Joe Armstrong is here That first Green Day album I thought was great Dookie, I remember when it came out And there were some people that didn't think it was great There were people that should have thought it was great But didn't think it was great But you know they've certainly gone on to define a sound and to honor their legacy. And you'll hear in my conversation with Billy Joe to sort of honor his heroes.

And they're pros, man. They fucking put it out there. They rock very hard. And it was great to get to talk to them. The new Green Day album, Saviors, comes out this Friday. Get it wherever you get music. I took a bold choice at the beginning health, education, finance, and more. At veterans.gc.ca slash services.

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FX's Shogun, a new original series, streaming February 27th, exclusively on Disney+. 18-plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. Yeah, I don't, you know, I guess I got, like I'm no great guitar player, but I got hip to juniors later. Like I, it probably in, when I got that thing, is it maybe 2016?

Because I got sort of obsessed with Johnny Thunders. Yep. That tone. Yep. Because, like, and also that thing is tuned to open G. I took the E string off. And you can just, it sounds just like Keith. Yeah.

It's all you have to do. Yeah. To play all those songs. I had no idea and I'm 60 yeah I just figured that out yeah

two years ago yeah we me and my friends we have a cover band yeah what's that one called it's called

The Cover Ups yeah and we just kind of play local stuff but we do we play Happy oh yeah yeah

and that's all that open G weirdness right yeah totally yeah But then you have to learn how to do the slide stuff that Mick Taylor did. Oh, okay. You know, that do-do-do. So, how are you with that open tuning stuff?

Oh, I just kind of fake it as much as I can. That's all you have to do, really, if you want. You could just sound, like, can't you hear me knocking you have to do, really, if you want. If you want, you could just sound oak. Like, can't you hear me knocking? Is all the fucking open tuning. Yeah.

And for my entire life, I was like, that seems impossible. Yeah. And then when you do that with the P90, it's like crazy. Yeah. It's right there. I mean, I can't play it great, but I know where it is. Right. So how's it been going?

Where do you live? You live around here or you live up in the Bay Area still? I live in the Bay Area. Yeah? Up in Oakland still, yeah. Really? You stayed up there or you've been around? I'm there.

It's my home. It always has been. Yep. Yeah. I mean, I was born there and grew up in like East Contra Costa County, which is like Richmond. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

And by a town called Rodeo. Rodeo. Yeah. I lived in the Bay Area briefly. I did comedy up there for a couple of years. And I used to go out and do gigs in different parts of the Bay Area. Walnut Creek. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. That's West Cocoa County. Yeah, that was the punchline, Walnut Creek. That's part of my past. Yeah, that's going through the Caldecott Curtain, Caldecott Tunnel right there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're like, oh, shit, I'm in Concord. Concord.

Yeah. Yeah. But the area you grew up in what was it mostly inhabited by? It's well it's kind of like there was like there was like three towns

that are sort of connected and it's like Rodeo Crockett and Port Costa and a little tiny town like a one lane street called Tormi.

But, um, it's like, it was all refinery. Yeah. And it was like, uh, um, what do you call it? What do you call it when it's, um, a town that's not a town that kind of just belongs to the county. Like a township? Yeah. Unincorporated.

Ah, yeah. Okay. Unincorporated. Yeah. So it was small. Yeah. So it was small, really small. And like, because I mean, I never really got a handle on the Bay Area in general. San Francisco always seemed complicated. I never knew which way I was going or which was south or east or west.

I know nothing about San Francisco. I mean, I grew up on, and it's like I'm East Bay, but as soon as you get past like the bridge right there, I'm like, I don't know where the hell I'm at. Yeah, and I lived there for like two years and I never quite figured out

what was happening there. Yeah. But you're close to Oakland. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And there was, like when you came up,

I can't remember, were you in my buddy Jack Boulware's book? Did he talk to you about that East Bay punk scene book? Was it Give Me Something Better? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I talked to him.

Yeah. Yeah, it was cool. It was a good book. Yeah, I mean, it was very specific. Yeah, yeah. But what, so how do you come up, like, you come from a big family? Yeah, one of six. And you're the youngest?

Yep. And that's not easy. It was like. The last one out of the youngest? Yep. And that's not easy. It was like... Last one out of the house? Yeah, it was like the youngest is always the afterthought, you know. But I mean, but geez, you probably had siblings who were in their 30s by the time you were 18, right? Oh, yeah. My oldest brother, Alan, was born in 1950.

Wow. So he's going to be 73 this year. That's crazy, isn't it? It's wild. It's wild, yeah. Do you have a relationship with the guy? Yeah. Yeah, good one.

All of them? All the sibs? Yeah, pretty much. Yeah. I can't imagine that. Yeah. It was a pretty wild and kind of gregarious sort of family atmosphere where everybody had big personalities, big jokesters.

Oh, really? Yeah, kind of. It could be really fun, but it was a lot of chaos, too. So you have two brothers? I have two brothers and three sisters. Oh, my God. And was there a time where everyone was in the house? No.

My oldest brother was out, but there was five of us that were in the house. Yeah. And your parents just kept wanting kids? I don't know. Well, the oldest brother is a half-brother. Who was whose? You were dads? And then all the rest were my dad were my dads

yeah so we had we have different fathers but we were always very close right um and then they you know i don't think they thought they could have kids and then it was like because they got married i think right around in 1958 yeah and then it was like boom boom, boom, boom, boom. They just had kids worth of vengeance? They were like, we can, and we're going to do it. Yeah, yeah. I mean, we crossed generational lines. It's like my mom has a one boomer and all Gen Xers after that. When were you born?

72. Because I think I'm the last boomer. 63. I think that was it. Yep, that's the cutoff got, I think I'm the last boomer. 63. I think that was it. Yep, that's the cutoff. But I think I'm more Gen X. I don't have any association with boomers. It's all nostalgia.

Yeah. You know, like I didn't, I grew up and everything had already happened. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's true. That's true. You know, you're in high school and it's like, is this new? No, it's 1972, this record. Yeah.

Oh, my God. I was eight. Yeah. I would have never registered that. Yeah. Well, that's like the great thing about discovery. Yeah. It's like you can, you know, the records that feel like they were made yesterday were made

like 50 years ago. I know. It never, everything is always now. It's weird with the internet. There's no real historical context. With music, it's always been like that. And some music is dated and some music never gets dated. I don't know why that is.

Like, for some, like, you ever listen to Neil Young and just realize, like, this could happen anytime? Yeah, because he's, it sounds like a band in a garage playing together. Right. You know, and. And he doesn't fuck with the production much. No, he just kind of puts it all, like, levels it out. But he's, like, he's definitely a sonic geek. Yeah, for sure.

Big time. That riggy, like, I talked to him, and that riggy seems to play through on stage. Sounds like it could break at any minute. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He plays a black beauty through a Fender Deluxe, I think. That is, you know, Yon's weapon of choice.

A big Fender Deluxe, like late 50s or what? I think, well, no, it's not even a Fender. No, maybe it's a, yeah, Fender Deluxe. Because that's a 53 Deluxe and they're tiny. And then they seem to have gotten bigger. Yeah, I think it's probably like one of the black face ones. And isn't that, that guitar he has like a, yeah, it's a deluxe, right? But it's got a black top on it for some reason. He plays, it's a Les Paul, but they called it the Black Beauty.

Oh, it is black. Yeah. So it's got the two P90s in it. But it was like, I think they made those around 56, 57. So when you were growing up, is there a lot of music in the house? Were you getting stuff passed down? Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, it was funny. I was looking at a picture the other day with my oldest brother. Yeah. And he was, it's me and him sitting on a couch and I have have headphones on and Magical Mystery Tour album covers right there. And then my other sisters were, one was really into Journey. That's a Bay Area band, I think. Yeah. They used to play Day on the Green at Oakland Coliseum every year.

So your sister's probably my age. What is she, 60? Born in 63. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we couldn't avoid Journey in high school. Yeah. And not until senior year, and then all of a sudden,

I don't know, Van Halen 1 happened, and everything seemed to shift. Yeah. Yeah. Wow, what a great record. No kidding, right? Yeah. I mean, like, I just remember the parking lot,

just like Camaros with doors open and Jensen Triaxles blasting Eruption. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's funny, like, two of the first records I ever bought was For Those About to Rock by ACDC and Fair Warning by Van Halen. Yeah. And it's crazy because it was like, people always thought of like, I guess it's like, because I'm on the cover of Highway to Hell,

like, ACDC was more of like the devil band and like, you know, Van Halen was more of like the pop happy band. Yeah.

But, and I put both records on, but when I heard the beginning of Mean Streets and the way that he plays that guitar solo at the beginning, Yeah.

I was like, that sounds like he just, like, the demons from hell are rising right now. And it's like, I felt like I was being possessed or something. Like, I had a crazy reaction. How old were you?

I was like, nine. Really? Yeah. And so that kind of wired your head? Yeah. That, I'm like nine. Really? Yeah. And so that kind of wired your head? Yeah. It's like to this day, when I listen to that solo, it just blows my mind. Well, I think they were driven by, like, I talked to David Lee Roth and tried to hold that together for an hour. And I did all right. But it's weird that, you know, those guys, those Van Halen brothers, I think,

were fueled with a lot of anger, you know, and a lot of, like, it's a very odd thing when you realize the biggest metal band in the world was, you know, two Asian guys and a Jewish guy. Yeah. And just, it sounds like their growing up was just hard as fuck, and that they just, it sounds like their growing up was just hard as fuck. And that they just, like, you know, just driven in a way that, like, I mean, no one can play guitar like that to this day.

No one can play drums like that either. I know. It's crazy, right? Yeah. It's like if you really listen to those records, you can just hear them. You can hear them trying to, I don't know, not trying to outdo each other, but Alex was always up for going head up with Eddie. Yeah. The way that he played drums and the guitar licks and stuff.

You could tell that those guys had literally been playing their music together their entire lives. Since they were ever. Yeah. Well, I mean, lives. Since they were, like, ever. Yeah. Well, I mean, that's the same with you guys, basically. A couple of you. Yeah, me and Mike, we met in, God, fifth grade. Yeah. And we were in the same class, and we've been friends ever since.

And playing together ever since. Yeah, I mean, we really started playing when we got to about seventh grade. But we always, like, seemed to talk about it and dream about it until, like, Mike got his sort of chops up on guitar. And, you know, because I already knew how to play. And, you know, one day I was, like, your guitar over, and he brought it over, and we were in the seventh grade, and we learned how to play together. Ain't talking about love. Crazy train. Yeah.

And, oh, my God, it was like Heaven's on Fire by Kiss. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, and Photograph. Oh, that's. Def Leppard. Oh, Def Leppard's. Yeah.

I was thinking Ringo Starr's, which I love. But so when you're like a kid, it's all hard rock. Yeah, pretty much. It was like, you know, like I really liked a lot of the like hair metal bands of the very early 80s. Like, you know, I liked Motley was big for me, Rat, Dokken. Really? Yeah. was big for me rat docking um really yeah i i love it's like and van halen was really big i wouldn't put them in that really in that category but i was um you know the stuff that they were

first starting to play on mtv that was like like more guitar heavy driven stuff at the like i would say right around 80 it's a short time because it got cheeseball real fast but i would say right around 80. It was a short time because it got cheeseball real fast, but I would say before, like 83 to 85. That was some great stuff that came out. And you were like 10? Yeah, I was 11 through about 13, 14. Did anyone else in your family play? Yeah, my brother Dave, he was a drummer.

And I think at one time we thought we were going to be like the van halen brothers yeah and that will away yeah my sister anna was a huge music fan of like like she's just kind of like you know like obsessive about uh you know she went from like listening to fleetwood mac and she took me to go see. And it's funny. My first concert was Van Halen, and my third was REM. Yeah. And they played in a high school gymnasium in Santa Cruz. Really?

Yeah. So that was like 85 or something on the Fables of the Reconstruction tour. That small a venue? Yeah, they weren't that big yet. I mean, I think they maybe played the Berkeley Greek a couple nights before. It's weird that you come up in a time where there were definitely two really different things happening and where music was going. Because like, you know, the Van Halen, the hard rock thing, it evolved a bit here and there. But then the REM thing was this whole other world yeah it well it's like the metal thing was definitely

like kind of like a party and when i saw rem i was like oh this is like serious you know and there's a lot of heart and going on into it in a different way I'd ever experienced before more emotion yeah and then that's when everything started to switch for me going to that's like I saw the replacements when I was like 15 where'd you see them I saw them um at the Fillmore with it was their first tour without Bob Bob Stinson. He had lost his mind? He wasn't dead yet, obviously. No, I think he left the band. And then that's when they got Slim to play.

And that was a big show for me, too, because it was just like, it was not, God, what tour was that? Please to Meet Me. Please to Meet Me. Please to Meet Me. Yeah. So it was like that. And then gradually I started getting more and more into, oh, Husker Du was like a massive influence on me.

Yeah. And then like, it's weird because it was like I went from like these Midwestern kind of punk rock alternative bands, and then like, then sort of the 70s,, late 70s British punk rock bands. Like, who were your guys? Like, was it, because it seems like early on, your singing styles changed, I think, over time. But it seemed early on it was pretty influenced by the Brits. I just always happened to sound like that. Yeah.

You know, because early on It was really like Those Midwestern kind of bands Husker Du Replacements Yeah And then like You know It was really funny

I was Green Day We put out our first 7-inch You know When it was like In 89 And And the

There was this magazine Called Ben is Dead And they reviewed it Yeah And they were like These guys are nothing But a fifth rate Buzzcocks and there was this magazine called Ben is Dead, and they reviewed it. Yeah. And they were like, these guys are nothing but a fifth-rate buzzcocks. Buzzcocks. And then I was like, who are the buzzcocks?

So I went out and bought Singles Going Steady. I'm like, these guys are great. Thank you. Yeah, totally. So they've been busting your balls forever about that kind of stuff um well yeah i mean i think it's like and we were really melodic and uh way more poppy than like the hardcore bands that was sort of like post-hardcore yeah because you you were adding all those like know, there's like more than three chords. There's a, you know, there's a fifth and a sixth chord, some minor, some Beatles chords

in there. Yeah. And it was always, it always felt poppy. But I mean, that's must be the replacements, right? In a way, in terms of influence or the Beatles. Yeah. I mean, they, I mean, they were writing like more heart from the heart kind of heart. Not saying that hardcore is not from the heart, but this is a different thing where they're not afraid to write like a ballad on there.

And it's like something that is so like more vulnerable. Yeah. And, you know, and then, you know, obviously the Beatles were are huge to me, too. Yeah. You're Stone Stones guy too? yeah definitely yeah I can I can listen to them

all the time still it's odd yeah I like the new record I think it's really good there's a couple of great Stones songs on there

yeah it's like if you can get one or two off any of the later records you're doing good totally I think you know

one of my my favorite Stones records is um Emotional Rescue it's a great record yeah I think it's like, one of my favorite Stones records is Emotional Rescue. It's a great record. Yeah. I think it's like a little bit overlooked. Yeah, there's a few of them that are kind of overlooked.

Even Dirty Work, there's a couple of good Stones songs on there. Yeah, totally. Yeah. I mean, I go on a deep dive a lot like that when there's any bands that maybe are, you know, kind of are the stuff that's not on the classic records that, like, you know, like, I'll go, okay, there's got to be a good song somewhere. Yeah. It's that way for the Ramones also, where it's like, you know, you have those first five records that were perfect.

Right. And then later, for me, you're like, you have to get really sort of selective of, like, oh, that. And it's like they kind of lost a little bit of passion for making a complete album. Right. You know, and so, but there are like these songs on there that you're like, oh my God, it's a great song. Yeah.

So when do you guys get it together and start? I mean, what, like you're very busy. You seem like you get a lot done. I mean, you're very busy. You seem like you get a lot done. We do, but it takes a long time. To make an album, it's been a crazy past couple of years because, one, we were making an album, but we had all these postponed dates that were because of COVID.

Yeah. So we were on the Hella Mega Tour in 21 and 22. But in between time, you know, I'd been writing a lot and we were wanting to go into the studio again. We had like a batch of songs. And so like we went to, we actually went to London and recorded out of the country for the first time. Really?

Yeah. For this new album? Yeah. Yeah. And when you were starting out, I mean, what was going on? Like you were the youngest kid. So did you just have more freedom than the other ones? Could you just go jam and just, you know, what was it?

I mean, I've definitely, it's like if you put look up latchkey kid in the phone book, you're going to find my number. Yeah. It's, yeah, I was, you know, definitely, my mom, you know, my dad passed away when I was 10. That's young. Yeah. So when she, she worked a lot. What was she? She was a waitress.

Really? Yeah. So she worked at She was a waitress. Really? Yeah. So she worked at a 24-hour place, so she would get the graveyard shift sometimes. So it left me— Did she remarry? Yeah. Yeah, she remarried once. And he was a pretty cool dude.

I actually liked his name was Sam. But, yeah, I thought thought you know uh my sisters hated him yeah but i i know i thought he was me and my brother thought he was cool yeah what did he do he was a pipe fitter and what'd your dad do he drove a truck yeah and he was a drummer also he drums yep what kind i mean what kind of music, really? So you had that in the house or you don't remember? You know, he would have gigs playing out with, you know, he had these guys that, like, I remember them jamming. And, like, there was one guy, he played trumpet. And he had, I was really young, but he had one big shoe.

Like, I don't know. I didn't know what, like, what was I. But we used to go see him play like like funny kid memory that's what you're gonna remember when you're like nine yeah the guy the one a trumpet and a big shoe but um i would uh i would um see him play and um um it was like so one of my like earliest memory music memories is him you know his band playing watermelon man by herbie hancock and oh yeah and like going like that's an interesting name for a song you know so to be tan and your dad passes away that must have been horrendous yeah yeah it

was it still has an effect i mean, he's got a pretty big spirit. Yeah. Yeah. It's, you know, my, I think it, what it, for me, it's just like, I'm always digging for information. About him? About him, yeah. Yeah. Whether it's like, you know, looking up old family portraits or, you know, so he would, I mean, he would be like 95 or 94 now.

Yeah. How did he die? Cancer, the esophagus. Oh. So it was fast too. It was like he got diagnosed and then he died three months later. Do you think like looking back on it, having been a guy that like is obviously still sort of searching right do you do you find that that that experience that grief or that void drove you to music

um i i think so you know it um i you know it's like it it plays out in different ways like you know like i if like me and like having this search of like what he had left behind. Sure. His legacy. And I think about my own legacy with my, you know, I think it really was songs. Yeah. It's like being kind of like a journal I've been writing for the past 30 years of different tunes. They're that personal, mostly?

Yeah, it gets really personal. Because like even on the new record, there's that song, what is it, Father to the Son? Yeah, Father to the Son, yeah. I mean, in the midst of this pretty, I mean, it's a heavy record in some places, but some of it's lighter than others, but all of it's pretty emotional.

But that seems like a very mature song. Yeah, I think it's kind of trying to reflect on, like, you know, I didn't know. I had kids when I was pretty young, so I've been married for almost 30 years. Really? Yeah. That's pretty good.

Yeah, yeah. But I got married when I was 22, and then we had a kid, our first son, immediately after. And I, man, I had no clue of what I was doing. How old were you? I was 22. Oh, that's crazy, dude. Yeah, and my wife was 24. Wow.

Yeah, so. And we went, we just, it's, we had our wedding, which, like, it was before I had any money, so it was kind of BYOB. What album? Was it before Dookie? It was when Dookie kind of first came out. Okay. It had been out for a few months. So something was happening.

I mean, there was hope on the horizon career-wise. Yeah. We had, I think, Basket Case was the single that was out. Yeah. And it seemed like, okay, like, this is going well. Mm-hmm. But now you got a kid. Well, not yet.

He came. Three months later. Nine months later, so. So, like, how do you handle that? I mean, was there a moment, did you know you were going to lock in for the long haul? I mean, were you that kind of guy? Yeah, absolutely. Oh.

As a father or as a husband? In general, as a husband, as a father, you were like, well, this is it. This is life. Yeah, that was the plan, you know. You know, obviously, like, you know, it's a roller coaster ride. Sure. I mean, with the band, it was like, I think I was already trying to think about like what we're going to do next. You know, even like after you finish an album, you're like, it's always kind of circling in the back of my mind.

Like, okay, shit, what's going on? What do we, how do we follow that? What do we, you know? With the records, but also with the kid, I imagine. Yeah, yeah, we had another one. What's the time, the year difference between them? They're like three years apart. Yeah.

So, but getting back to the song, on the new record, Father, what is it, Father to the Son? Father to a Son. To a Son. Yeah. Now, is this sort of a bridge between you and your father and your kids? I mean, where did it come from? I think it comes from just not knowing what I was really doing and being someone that was just, there was no playbook on how to do it,

but doing the best I can, making a lot of errors on the way um and having moments where you knew exactly what to say at the right time and you go oh my god i can't believe that just came out of my mouth right you know yeah you know it's like all the history you know i was like a little league baseball coach and i coached soccer with them and but this is something you missed in your own life, I imagine. I mean, who stepped in? I mean, did Sam step in, or did you just really raise yourself or your mom? My mom, you know, Sam was just kind of like, you know, he was there,

but not like a, you know. But my older, my brother Dave. Oh, right, you had the older brother. And I had a lot of older siblings, so they kind of rallied around me. But I was kind of like, just get the fuck away from me. There's no way that- Because you're angry. Yeah.

There's no way that a 13-year-old brother is going to be able to father a 10-year-old. What about the one that's really older? He was good. Yeah? Yeah, he had his own family and stuff like that. By that time? Yeah. Oh, wow.

So I was an uncle when I was eight. But there was some structure, at least, around. Like, your brother had a family. You were part of a family that was still kind of together. Yeah. I wouldn't say structure. I just think it was like, because there was all the chaos that kind of was going from, you know, my sister having boyfriends and in and out. And then, of course, you know, there was a lot of addiction going on.

Really? And stuff like that throughout. Where does that come from? Is it family or it just happened? It just kind of happened. It happened, I mean, it's weird. It's like kind of happened to my whole family. Like all my brothers and sisters.

Really? But you can't track it to a grandfather or anything? I think I could probably, yes, I can. Yeah. Anything? I think I could probably try. Yes, I can. Yeah.

My grandfather was, he's from Oklahoma, big drunk. Oh, yeah? Yeah. And I had uncles back then that were, you know, but I think they were like a lot of World War II vets. On your mom's side? Yeah. Yeah. It's wild.

It's like a real American story you've got going here, a real working class American story that you come from. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's wild. It's like a real American story. You've got going here, a real working class American story that you come from. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's not it. It's it's it's like because when you hear the story, when you hear about like a mom who's like a waitress at a 24 hour place, that must have been just the most draining, exhausting fucking thing. Yeah. Yeah. I get making tips. I remember putting like helping her. Mike was also would be at the would be at the table and like there was those little like circular envelope.

Yeah. My bandmate. Yeah. And we, you know, like those, remember those? Yeah, the little cylinders. The little cylinders

and you would stick quarters and nickels. Sure. So that was her tips. Yeah. Yeah. So, but she tips. Yeah. Yeah. So. But she, yeah, she bought me a guitar with it.

So. What kind? First one. My first guitar was a Hohner Les Paul. So it was just like a, you know, Japanese copy of a copy. So. Yeah. Yeah.

And that's, so you learned a copy. Yeah. Yeah. And that's, so you learned on electric. Yeah. Yeah. So having that sort of fuck you-ness or that anger about the state, I mean, when you were first starting out playing, I mean, did you, that must be why you gravitated to that sort of the intensity of the music. Because like your music, I mean, all of it, all the way through, you can't not move to it

oh yeah dancing is a big deal yeah and it just it always has like you know whether it's that build or whether it's that you know the chorus it always like it definitely you know there's emotion to it yeah yeah I think when I started going to there was a club that I started going to called Gilman Street. That was an all-ages venue. It was a volunteer run. And the first time just seeing people, it wasn't like, it was a lot more kind of these kind of ragamuffin sort of like kids that were kind of running it and had their bands and doing fun things like bringing emptying a dumpster and a garbage can so this is like American punk early yeah yeah yeah I think that that's something that always stuck with me is like you know how what the intention is always about having you

have all the intensity of like the lyrics and the personal stuff, but you also have this playfulness that it's like when you're playing in front of 50,000 people and it, you know, it's like, I'll look at Mike and I'll be like, isn't this a fucking trip? Yeah. This is like,

who knew, you know, this is so weird. You know, this happens still. Yeah. Sometimes like, you know,

it's like, we're like, man, all right, let's, let's,, man, all right, let's go for it. But it's sort of amazing that when you do come from where you come from, from the beginning, no one was going to save you. There was no fallback. No, nothing. I dropped out of high school right around in the 12th grade.

Mike stayed in, and we booked a tour starting the day after Mike graduated from high school. And, like, was that back in the day where you have to stay at fans' houses, and it was, like, fanzine culture? Yep. And you'd have to, you know, get promotions at these all-ages places, that kind of thing. Yeah, it was the best way to tour. Could you even play bars then? No. Wow.

We used to play, like, every once in a while we'd play a bar or an 18 and over. Right. And we'd have to stay outside. Right. And that's what happened to us. We played Raji's in L.A., and we sat sat like sat in the outside and they're like, all right, come in. We go and play. They're like, like this guy, Terry in South Dakota. Yeah.

He booked us out there and he put, we were at like, it wasn't a vet's hall, but it was like some kind of lodge. Yeah. Or we would do backyard parties and we would do garages, but it was all run on a scene. And it was a great, I would never trade that time ever it didn't feel like hard work to me it felt like i was living my life in the way that i wanted to and all the people like when you go on tour and you stay at someone's house after and you end up with like meeting cool people and some of these people are are my friends to this day, that day back to 30 years ago.

That's what happened with Jason White, who is our guitar player. He comes with us on tour. I met him in 1990 and he booked our show in Little Rock, Arkansas at a place called Vino's. Wow. And that was in 91.

And he, yeah, he's one of my best friends to this day. So who was on like in terms of that scene in the Bay Area, who was around? Because I from what I hear, I mean, you guys got pretty popular pretty quickly in that scene, right? You were forced to be reckoned with. I think so. I mean, like it would be like like because we just kind of played everywhere around. So we play in like, we play like, we almost had like a, like a little tour we would do. We would play like Gilman. A couple weeks later, we would play the Phoenix Theater in Santa Rosa, or then we play like a house party in Benicia. Yeah. And so it was like we had like little pockets where like, you know, and we were pretty big in Petaluma. Yeah.

And then, you know, Gilman, we would either pack it out or there'd be some times where it would be half full. But, I mean, the other bands, like the local scene was really important for us. Who were they? Well, the band that really stands out to me was this band, Operation Ivy. Yeah. Who became Rancid. Okay.

And then there was another. You work with that guy, the other Armstrong. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Tim's great. Yeah. He's a good friend.

Brother Tim. Yeah. I call him Brother Tim. He calls me Brother Billy. So those guys were really like, they packed out Gilman and were a really important band. And another band, Isocracy, who the drummer in that band played with us for a couple years. And then there was like Crimpshrine. And then there was the fanzines also.

Like this one, Comet Bus, another one called Absolutely Zippo. But so we were, I mean, I think what we put out our first album on Lookout Records, and then it was like we were, our record kerplunk is when you could really that came out in like late 91 it was it was like then you could tell that things were were happening and yeah we were selling clubs out everywhere and how did uh how did dookie come to in existence because i remember that's the one i i mean i was old already kind of, I remember I was in Boston and cause I remember it coming out and it, it, it was everywhere for a bit. Yeah. It,

um, we, we recorded it in Berkeley. Um, and, uh, um, it was like,

you know, we took this gamble of going from a very small independent label that going to Warner brothers, you know, we took this gamble of going from a very small independent label. Yeah. Going to Warner Brothers. Yeah. You know, so it was, you know, we wanted to have like bigger production and sound, but not something that we're going to be able to live with for the rest of our lives. Right. As far as sound and not have like an empty echoey snare drum.

Sure. So it was. Was that the first record you did with Rob? Yeah. Yeah, Rob Cavallo. Yeah. Yeah. So how important is that?

Because you were with him for like a lot of records. How much input does a producer have in terms of, you know, in conversation about what you want to sound like? I think it's a few different things. Like sonically, like how to get like the best guitar sound and how to get the best drum sound. And, you know, and that like makes it like sound like big and green, like green day. Yeah.

And then I think there's another way with him where we would talk about the lyrics and what is the deeper meaning that's going on inside of the song. And you had answers for that? For the most part. But it was like, I don't know if you'd really call it answers, but it would be sort of more of like you know what just how it makes you feel yeah how to you know what what's the deeper meaning why would you say that yeah why you know really are you sure you want to say that really yeah do you have something else you want to say so he was trying to assuming when you're in a studio it's different than a live environment

so you're going to do more than one take. Right. So he was somehow trying to plant the emotions in you so you could repeat it. It was, I wouldn't say, hmm. He would, like, we would do takes and, you know, if I was on a roll, then I'd just keep going. Yeah. And he would stay out of the way. I mean, I did the vocals on Dookie, I think, all in like two days or something like that. So, but I mean, now the way,

I record all my vocals by myself. Really? Yeah, yeah. It's weird. I got more shy the older I got when it came to singing in front of people. Why do you think that is? Because I sing at Dookie in two days, yeah it was so uh i i don't know i

just i think i was just wanting to get into a zone yeah where no one else was around you can go so you could probably be more open in a way yeah and then you know obviously like on the last record i would kind of you know rob would be in in the other room and I would sing a couple of takes. And then I would say, OK, I think I'm ready for you to hear some stuff. And he would come in and he would be like, oh, my God, this is great. Oh, God. God, I love the way you're singing that part. Yeah.

Yeah. But that record was so huge. And it seemed like, I mean, I mean, I know you talk about it, but how does it feel? Because there was a time, I think, in whatever form you were doing in comedy too where the word sellout becomes this thing. And as you get older, you realize that's not really a thing. No.

But when you're younger it's like it's it hurts i really kind of look at from like the where we came from being like san francisco and berkeley and paying your dues and and not really having the easy there was no easy way about it oh yeah yeah we we came from like what we had already talked about. Yeah. It was, I think, it was like our scene in general. I think if I lived somewhere else, like if I lived in Boise, if we came from Boise, Idaho, I don't think it would have had an effect on us. Yeah. But the fact that we lived in sort of like the epicenter of progressive people, that I think it was a lot more like, and then you have a club that's being run by socialist teenagers. It's like people are going to call you out or try to.

And I think that we dealt with it the best that we could. And it's like, you know, it's like, I don't know. It's like, I'm not Catholic. Why do I feel shame right now? Right. So it was like. For taking an opportunity. Yeah. Because you didn't change your music.

No. No, we just wanted to make it sound better. Yeah. Yeah. your music. No. No, we just wanted to make it sound better. Yeah.

Yeah. And I think the weird thing is, I think a lot of it had to do with what Dookie did, and I think what kind of spread was you kind of Americanized

a very specific punk sound. Yeah. And then it became a thing, and I imagine people who attached themselves to that type of punk music had a sort of punk ideology about things or so they thought. But a lot of times that just comes from people who aren't getting opportunities.

It's easy to maintain your integrity when no one's offering to buy you out. Right, right, right. That's true. What do you know? Your band sucks. And so, you know, you had to carry the burden of that. I mean, you got flack from fucking Johnny Rotten. Right, right. I mean, like, what is that? I don't know.

I mean, alcoholism. But it's just odd that people hold on to this thing that, you know, nothing evolves and sort of kind of absorbs more than music. Yeah. So, I mean, the fact that people can't. And also, you know, functionally, because of the nature of your songwriting and who your heroes are and also the way you write songs, I mean, you like hooks. Yeah.

And you like pop chords. Yeah. So that was always there yeah and it's just that you know once you get an opportunity because that's you know that music is more appealing than three chord yelling yeah to a broader audience and all of a sudden those people are gonna be like i'll go fuck you you know fuck you yeah i mean the thing is is what i everything that we've always tried to do has always been pure at heart you know as comes to melody, that was what came natural to me. And I loved it.

I love melodic. I love melodies. I love melodic songwriters. I love, no matter what, by Badfinger, fucking awesome. Of course. And I love power pop. Your whole drive is this awesome kind of combination of power pop and punk. I mean, it's the drive shaft of most of the stuff.

Right. It always comes at you outside of the slower songs. But there's definitely a sound. But because you're earnest, it never gets old, really. Right, right. Yeah, I hope that. I mean, that's what we strive for anyway. But it's, you know, as far as like, you know,

I do have to say that when we started playing, you know, our version of punk rock or punk rock in general, like there was no road that was open that would take you to where we are now. Right. Or like what happened with dookie yeah so you know it was i mean the closest you can come to is nirvana but we were very different from nirvana but it was i think with um you know it's kind of like you had these you have these heroes and they're kind of like your dads and they're like i'm really

disappointed in myself i never never wanted you. Yeah. You know what I mean? Who were those people? Oh, that is kind of like, you know, like Johnny, John Lydon. I was like, that was the, I was like, he's like the kids he never wanted or the illegitimate children he never wanted. So it's, you know, it is what it is. You know, I'm not, it's like like it doesn't ever get in my way. Yeah. Well, that's good.

I mean, that speaks to your focus, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. There are some times where you get hard feelings or hurt feelings, and it's just like, but it always goes away. Well, yeah. Well, I mean, the Best Fuck You is another big record. Yeah. Or Just Keep Going. Sure. You know? Well, I mean, who did you, like, were there guys, like, did you have? way well yeah well i mean the the fuck the best fuck you is another big record yeah or just keep

going sure you know i mean who did you like were there guys like did you have um i mean who taught you how to play guitar did you have like you know father figures in music yeah i had um there's a my guitar teacher in the um he was um this guy ge George Cole was an amazing player. Yeah. He still plays to this day. He's played, it's like this, I don't know how you call it, but it's like this jazz and very Django Reinhardt kind of. Oh, really?

Yeah. So he's a little wizard? Yeah. Yeah. He was great, but he sings and, you know, it's like, but anyways, he taught great, but he sings, and it's like... But anyways, he taught me how to get my hands on it and was teaching me power chords and stuff like that. Yeah.

But I never had the patience to learn how to read music. Yeah, no, no. I just was like... And so he was funny. I would come in, and he goes, did you learn what I was supposed to be out of the book? Right. And I would say, no.

And he's like, did you bring a cassette of the song you want to learn and play? And I go, yes. He kind of closed his eyes and laughed. And then we would learn the song. And he'd teach me how to play the song right there. So he really was helping me to have an ear for music. And he'd teach you a couple of pentatonic scales and stuff? Yeah. me to helping to have an ear for music.

And he'd teach you a couple of pentatonic scales and stuff? Yeah, just minor pentatonic. Yeah, that's it. Yeah. I mean, I wish I knew more. You know, I think there's some of these guys, that's what kind of got me off of metal, because it was like, it became kind of the guitar olympics where everyone you had i'm like i don't have time to sit here and play guitar in my room until i get close to anywhere close to eddie van halen sure so but what i did notice about man hailing is they wrote kick-ass songs yeah that

with melody and great you know and fun lyrics and and you knew you could do that. I felt that that came the most natural, for sure. Well, now if you scroll through Instagram wheels, there are like 12-year-olds who can play Van Halen. And you're like, what the fuck is that? Dude, man, it's crazy. I know. My son did it. Yeah? I didn't even know he was playing guitar.

Like, I really didn't. And then all of a sudden, one i'm like i'm like what the fuck dude you've been like holding out on me you know and he's like and it was great yeah he's a great guitar player really he's better than me yeah yeah wild yeah so it's a surprise i mean it you know i always have i have guitars like you have guitars laying around, exactly the same. Yeah. And so he picked it up, and he's in a really good band. Yeah. And I'm not just saying that. What's it called?

They're called Ultra Q. Okay. Is the other one a musician too? Yeah. He's kind of, but he's a drummer. Yeah. But he's kind of doing more grown-up things and stuff like that right now. Yeah.

But he's a great drummer. Yeah. We all jam together. Oh, yeah? Yeah. Oh, that's cool. Yeah, it was fun. We played, oh, God, what was it?

It was a TV show. It was during COVID, so it was like I literally had another guitar player and a drummer and we're all in the same house and they happen to be my sons. Worked out. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So,

but they're yeah, I'm, I'm really proud of them and they, they, they, they picked up on music and, and it's great. You can just have,

it's nice to have someone you can talk to in the house about things that nobody knows how to talk to you about. Music, guitars, stuff. Yeah. And just like, you know. Does he show you stuff on the guitar? I watch very closely, but I never, I can't do that. You can't ask him no i mean it's interesting because like the way that he plays it's like kind of like um it's just like more like strokes and interpol and okay yeah yeah and

that kind of you know vibe where it's like intricate kind of guitar playing because he's got this other kid that plays with this kid enzozo, that's in this band also. He, who is a shredder. Yeah. And they play off each other. You know, it's like they have like their own way of weaving. So that like sort of Tom Verlaine. Yeah. Right.

Yeah. Oh, wow. Yeah. That's a whole other thing. I don't have the patience to learn how to play like that either. I'm going to start framing my lack of musicianship on my lack of patience. Yeah, exactly. I just can't. I can't have the patience to learn how to play like that either. I'm going to start framing my lack of musicianship on my lack of patience. Yeah, exactly. I just can't.

I can't. Like, I don't even like learning other people's songs. Yeah. You know, I've got my blues scales and I'll do my version of things. But I can't. I'm not going to sit there and figure out a lead that someone else plays, really. No. And do it over and over again.

Also, I don't play regularly. I imagine if you're playing every night, it's a little easier. Yeah, yeah. It's so funny. Not too long ago, I learned on YouTube how to play this guitar solo for Crazy Train. And I was like Randy Rhoads. And I was so, here I am, 51 years old,

and I'm patting myself on the back of the guitar solo. I've been wanting to learn how to play since I was so you know here I am like 51 years old and I'm patting myself on the back of the guitar so I've been wanting to learn how to play since I was 10 you did it I did

it took me 40 years that I got it not only you know are you 51 but you're in one of the biggest bands in the world

and you're like it's time to learn yeah don't be afraid my son you can do it no one's gonna ride you for it

you just do could you but did you remember it that's the hardest thing is you learn it and you're like I got it and if you don't play it

for a couple weeks it's like fuck yeah well my cover band yeah the cover we went in and jammed it

one song and like they were all kind of like slow clapping oh yeah so but I mean I learned I love like, I love playing covers.

Like, you know, I love. Some of that Bob Stinson stuff's pretty cool. Oh, he's a great guitar. Great guitar player. So underrated. It's like unbelievable. Yeah. What he did in that band.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He, and you could feel him missing after, you know. Totally. You know, like. Because they did a weird thing with rhythm and lead. They did a little weaving themselves.

But, I mean, Bob, that guitar melody drove all those songs. Yeah, for She Came, and then he would be like, you know, he would play guitar like his hair's on fire, too. Yeah. But, you know, the song that comes to mind is that song nowhere is my home that i love that guitar bit yeah um maybe paul came up with it i you know you never know but it's definitely bob and how you could just really like like you know yeah it's just he's a great guitar player.

So how did, like, because after Dookie, you kind of, you're on a roll. You do a lot of big records. And then by the time you get to American Idiot to doing, like, you know, a real concept record, but I guess you always saw it in terms of full records. You were not. That's just the way your brain works. Yeah, yeah. But how were you handling, saw it in terms of full records you were not that's just the way your brain works yeah yeah

but how are you handling because i know you kind of came on glued at some point but what what was it that fame specifically or having a public life especially now and and at the at the level you have it i mean how did that impact you like from what's the arc of that um i don't know it's like it's weird because you can have some really fun nights at night nights out you know and when it's like i don't live in la so i live i think that um the bay area will keep you grounded whether you like it or not that's true. There's also the other side where it's like I don't like being invisible. Yeah. And you don't want to be recognized or anything like that.

One of my favorite things to do is to go and see live music and things like that. And it's like to feel like i have to lurk in the shadows of that it causes a lot of it gives you anxiety but you know um but it's weird because the fame thing was is kind of when i when i'm home it turns off yeah you know on tour it it it's on because there's your audience literally right in front of you yeah But, and then like, so like, you know, LA was like coming to Los Angeles and, and that part of it where,

you know, so many people are looking for their big break. You know, it's, I always was like, like, you know, it's fun to visit.

It's like Disneyland and stuff like that. And I've learned to like Los Angeles more as I've gotten older. But you don't think fame had that much to do with your, you know, unraveling? Unraveling. What do you mean by unraveling? Well, I mean, like, you know, with the building up, the drug issues and that kind of stuff. Oh, yeah. I mean, I think, like, I get massive stage fright.

Really? Yeah. To this day? Yeah. To this day? Yeah. Yeah, it's the anticipation of all day going on and getting ready to go on stage in a stadium or something. Okay. Yeah, I started, I think, around the record after Dookie

where I would get so nervous that like i started insomniac insomniac i started drinking more um before shows yeah and i and i'm like hey that works i did i'm just gonna keep doing that okay so that's when i i started to uh it's just and then i then i real realizing like well i keep drinking after the show too i I'm drinking during the show. I'm drinking, you know, and it's just like, it's just kind of happened. It just kind of, yeah. I mean, I used to smoke dope all the time, but I think like after I had our first kid, I was just like, I couldn't be high around him. Right. So, and then, and then,

but alcohol kind of, you know, I was also just like in my early 20s. So I was trying to do what like other guys my age were doing at the time. And but but yeah, then the alcohol kind of just sort of became an issue and started it started to kick my ass. It changes your personality. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

It changes your personality. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's, you know, I'll be fine for, like, a few drinks, and then some other guy starts to kind of come into the picture. The angry guy? No, not angry. It's just, like, I start to turn into, like, everyone's drunk, annoying uncle.

Oh, yeah, yeah. And then it can get really funny, and then it can get really fun, and then it turns into where I can't switch it off. Yeah. It's just like I'll be up and drinking until like 4 in the morning or something. So it's just mostly alcohol? Yeah. There was other human garbage can moments where

where there was drugs involved yeah um but that's the thing i just like it's that thing like you know you're fucked up like i just want to keep going yeah yeah i can't shut it off but alcohol was the ground floor that was the uh the base yeah yeah yeah yeah and how bad did it get how did you get to the point where you'd wake up and drink? No, I wasn't like that. I mean, maybe I started at lunch. At sound check? Yeah, maybe around sound check.

And, you know, I had to kind of, but it, yeah, it was just, you know, I think some of my actions were getting just crazier and crazier. Publicly? Yeah, publicly. There was things that started going down or like I would wake up the next day and just blackouts. Oh, that's the worst. Yeah. So you had to get a report. So you had to get a report?

I would hear about it, and I would start feeling that shame and guilt and self-pity and all that fun stuff. Were the rest of the band concerned? I think a little bit from time to time that I could hurt myself. Yeah. But not, but, you know, they like to party. Yeah. And I'm not going to get in their way. Yeah. So.

You just want a little further. Yeah, I think so. I think, yeah, it's just like, you know, why are we getting kicked out of this place? Oh, Billy's on the bar. Yes. That kind of stuff. Yeah.

So when did you get sober? oh Billy's on the bar oh yes that kind of stuff so when did you get sober I got sober in

2012 I was sober for five years yeah um and then I went out again uh for a few

did it get bad um yeah it started I was just like I just feel like shit all the time so 2017 you're like

you're back in it? I was back in it. Yeah. Around 2017, I was like, fuck it. I'm going to have a beer. See what happens. What happened? It was fine for a while.

Yeah. And then it just steadily got like I was back in your old ways. Creeps up, right? Yeah. And I'm older, and it hurts my body yeah and like it was hurting me emotionally more and you know my family more and I was just like you know I got a fucking um I don't know if how that is a way of coping with fame or anything like that I do think like being in a band there's a lot of downtime and there's a lot of coping with fame or anything like that. I do think like being in a band, there's a lot of downtime and there's a lot of like that celebratory

atmosphere that comes with the success. You know, I always tell people there's a fine line between celebrating and partying. Yeah. You know, it's like you're celebrating something, then something good is happening when you're partying. Something bad might've happened. And that's the reason why you're at where you're partying, something bad might have happened,

and that's the reason why you're at where you're, you know. But also just coming off a gig. Yeah. I mean, that energy. You know, you got to deal with that. Yeah, that is because it's pure adrenaline. Yeah. I can't imagine it.

Yeah. So that's interesting. So American Idiot, and you were still pretty fucked up. Yeah, I drank a lot that whole time. And that was, do you figure, do you think that's the first time you really engaged? Well, I mean, obviously it became quite a big thing with the Broadway show, but was that the first time where you felt political? Yeah, that's the first, I, we had kind of dabbled, I talked, you know, in songs like on our first album, there was an anti-racist song.

Yeah. I sang about sort of the, you know, different homelessness on a couple of other records. And on the new one, too, a little bit. Yeah. And then I think American Idiot is when everything hit right at that time. And it was like there was something that I just wanted to push. Yeah. Yeah.

And that's a full kind of W-influenced concept record. I wouldn't say W all the way. I think it was culturally what was going on. I think it was culturally what was going on it was like I think that that was what he ended up doing was sort of

set he kind of was one of the people that threw the seeds in that that like split the divide in the country yeah

where suddenly it was either French fries or freedom fries right you know either you're with us or you're with the terrorists yeah

that's a hell of a thing to say totally and I think yeah that's kind and then that's what like American Idiot started to become about. It's like, and just also like the confusion of like not really like trying to process what is going on when you're at, when your country's at war. Yeah. And you were still pretty young, right? I mean. I was 32 when that record came out. Yeah. Yeah. And you were still pretty young, right? I was 32 when that record came out.

Yeah. Yeah. So it was still pretty vital. I mean, you still had an audience of young people that you must have been aware of as well. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I even was talking to my bandmates and going, hey, I know we all basically

should be on the same team with this, what I'm singing about. And they were like, dude, you're able to say things in a song that I have a hard time even speaking in a conversation. Oh, that's great. Yeah. It's good when you don't have one whack job in the band. Right, right, right. The secret right wing guy yeah you didn't really know yeah the the this the cue saxophone player exactly yeah i talked to john

doe recently i'm like how things going with everybody in x you know yeah because uh you know a couple of them are kind of out there yeah yeah, yeah. I've heard X-E and Scott's some Let's Go Brandon kind of theories and stuff like that. They still sound great, though. They do. That last record was really good. They're doing another one. That's good. Right?

Yeah, yeah. But when you did American Idiot, did that give you a different type of confidence in songwriting around things that are specific? Because, you know, the new one, it's a little more existential. But, you know, that that bit you did during Trump was like that was pretty real, too. Was it Father of All Motherfuckers? Yeah, I didn't. It's weird. Like Father of All Motherfuckers was sort of like uh it it is trumpy that that record i kind of stayed away

from politics because it was like it was low-hanging fruit it was more of a reaction you just wanted to counter it well i just i wanted to take my time because the country had become so weird and like that was the first time i ever heard of like the alt right yeah and you know uh what's her name what's her name tia tequila like or like you know yeah like all that shit i was like what is going on right and um and hearing about like this sort of new kind of bro um uh neo neo nazi yeah part of it um and like and the maga thing and and sort of it's like you're processing a cult yeah like you know so it took me this record to kind of figure out that division and how where i saviors saviors yeah yeah so it's uh but like i mean with american

idiot it was like everything was sort of there was like a new aesthetic for us. I mean, even like, I would say even fashion, the way we were, it's like, like the music was starting to influence us as far as the way that, you know, me wearing a black shirt and a red tie and sort of these really iconic imagery and stuff like that. Yeah. Kind of like the wall-ish or something, but it was... There was intent to it. There was intent to it. Yeah. It was a kind of a way...

I wouldn't say we reinvented ourselves, but it was a time when, yeah, we reinvented ourselves. And the Broadway play, was that a surprise? Yeah, I was just up for anything. And who approached you for that? Michael Mayer, the director, he asked, he hit my manager up and asked if we were interested.

I said, yeah, definitely. And so I met with him and we came up with a couple of different ideas and we kind of, a couple of different ideas and um he we kind of all of a sudden it's just like we went to the first rehearsals of it and just it was a sit down and people were singing and i was like oh my god this is gonna work yeah yeah i bet you could never have thought that that would have happened no no you know it's like, you think about like how, uh, the who did Tommy. Yeah.

Um, and which was like, you know, successful and, um, and all, you know, these concept rug, every, everybody wants to have a Sergeant Pepper in them or a Tommy in them or, or whatever. So it was like, um, I kinda just let that concept just keep going. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. it was popular yeah yeah it did and you were in the show a bit yeah i did i did a few months of it how was that for you it's it was so funny i was like um there's this like one i i felt it kind of i'm like am i an egomaniac right now you know like there was this was this part, this sign or that, or it was a, that says it was like

some play by George M. Cohan. Yeah. It was like written, directed, acting, but you know, it had like all of, he's did everything. And I was, I'm like, oh my God, I'm a, am I George M. Cohan right now? You know? You have done a lot of stuff and you did some movie acting too. A little bit. Yeah. I got the bug for it. Oh yeah? Yeah. Are you doing more? I don't know. You have done a lot of stuff, and you did some movie acting, too. A little bit, yeah.

I got the bug for it. Oh, yeah? Are you doing more? I don't know. I think I'd like to. If it comes up? Yeah. I love doing the independent.

I did one film with this guy, Lee Kirk. I like doing something that was like independent. Yeah, yeah. And it just I felt like that was more of my comfort zone or something. And these last I guess the last three records

I mean what happened with with Rob you know I mean Revolution Radio you guys produced. Yeah. We did that one ourselves. And then

with Father of All Motherfuckers Butch Walker because that Father of All Motherfuckers sounds different. On purpose. And it's like every, it felt like a real risk. Yeah. But it's all great. But I feel like there was a, you know, it feels like you were able to engage a range as a band you didn't have before. Yeah.

I mean, I love garage rock stuff. Yeah. You know, and I really wanted to do, like, something like that was something that I knew like a bunch of songs off of, like, The Underground Garage, you know. So it was like, it's a, you know i wanted to make a more of a garage rock record something i had a little more soul to it yeah um by meaning genre and uh and then like the song father of all like it's one of my proudest songs i've ever written which one the song father of all motherfuckers yeah it's like i went and just, I did a falsetto,

and I was like, I didn't want to sound like me. Yeah. You know? Yeah. You know, it's like, I guess I wanted to sound like Prince's, like, illegitimate son or something. Yeah, but you did it. Yeah. Yeah.

Was that by virtue of lockdown that you were willing to take these chances? Well, it came out, it was before lockdown. It was. It all came out before lockdown? Yeah. It literally came out and then I think we had to start canceling shows immediately. So it was like- Oh, so that was a tour for that record that you didn't get to do.

Yeah, there was no... Yeah, there was really no record cycle. Are you doing songs from it on the road now? I'm still writing that set list. Okay. But we didn't play any of those songs from the big tour that we were on, Hell Omega.

But there were some small shows that we were on, Hell Omega. But we, we, there was some small shows that we did, like we played some clubs and we played a few songs off it. And it was, it felt really gratifying because it was just like, it's like, it, it is like that what if record. Yeah. It's like an outlier. Yeah. Yeah. And then with Saviors, I mean, it seems like you kind of contracted back a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. It was like I didn't know whether I wanted to make like a sort of a three-chord, you know, punk rock record like the song Look Mono Brains. Um, and then, uh, and then the American dream is killing me was written during, um, in 2018 originally. Yeah.

And, but, but we didn't want to be political. Right. You know, so I, I, I brought that song back out and it really fit. And then, and, and then, oh God, it was saviors the song. Yeah. And then, oh God, it was Saviors, the song. Yeah. Which was the one, that was the first song I wrote during lockdown.

So it was like, which is more of this kind of big, lush kind of rock, stadium rock kind of sound to it. Big build at the end. Yeah. Yeah. And I like to, in Strange Days Are Here To Stay, like the acknowledgement of things being different after bowie died yeah yeah that's like an interesting observation because you know to a certain age or to a certain type of music lover i mean that was it did feel like something was over forever yeah and it just seemed like the world got stranger like as it was like we started losing a lot of great people yeah you know it was people like prince and um and he's still kind of like

all of a sudden there's this sort of generation of great artists and great politicians like that were you know old old and just, you know, you know, Ruth Bader Ginsburg, like she, it was like, that was sort of the last fight where it was like, oh my God, right before the election, this is happening. It's like, you couldn't, it's like, it was just, so yeah, that's where, so the song was kind of about how like. And no one's stepping in to the shoes.

And it doesn't seem like there's anyone that can. No. Especially like Gen X generation. I feel like we got kind of skipped over because like the boomers won't release power. Yeah. They never let go. Yeah. They're always in the way yeah i mean mitch mcconnell is

like literally standing there catatonic in the way yeah it's like so it's uh you know i mean obviously i'm gonna you know vote for whoever is going to be the democrat yeah but it's um yeah it's just it's just weird to see these old men kind of trying to hold on to 1950s ideas. Or just holding on to power that protects corporations and keeps dividing the culture in order to maintain the power. Yeah. Yeah.

But, I mean, the new album's got, like, a lot of different types of songs on it. There's some real bangers and there's some thoughtful ones and yeah feels like a whole record yeah no I

you know there's that song and there's another song on there called Corvette Summer yeah

that is this like kind of I guess it would be sort of a cross between it's like Cheap Trick and and like Bad Finger a little bit Real Powerpuff Just like kind of, I guess it would be sort of a cross between cheap trick and bad finger. Real power pop. Real power pop. And it's all about, I just want to go to the record store and get some new records and feel, it's like, feel normal.

Yeah. Or do something that makes me like. Grounds you. Grounds me. I don't want to be sad. I want something to distract my sadness. Yeah. So...

And Goodnight Adeline's good, too. That's a good tune. Yeah, that's another song about just kind of depression, you know, trying to kind of, you know, kind of cry yourself to sleep. Nice hook, though. Thank you. Thank you. You know, it's also kind of cry yourself to sleep. Nice hook though. Thank you. Thank you.

You know, it's like, it's also kind of like a influence by a lot of, um, Brit pop just going that direction. Yeah. Yeah. I like it,

man. It was great talking to you. Awesome. And it's good to talk to you. Thanks for doing it. Yep. There you go. Billy Joe Armstrong,

Saviors. The new record comes out this friday to see where they'll be on their global tour go to greenday.com slash tour hang out for a second folks hi it's terry o'reilly host Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations,

how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. Surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. It's a night for the whole family.

Be a part of Kids Night when the Toronto Rock take on the Colorado Mammoth at a special 5 p.m. start time on Saturday, March 9th at First Ontario Centre in Hamilton. The first 5 000 fans in attendance will get a dan dawson bobblehead courtesy of backley construction punch your ticket to kids night on saturday march 9th at 5 p.m in rock city at torontorock.com okay look on thursday ed begley jr is back on the show. The last time he was on was January 13th, 2014, almost 10 years ago to the day. That was episode 461. Now, I'm a comedy store guy. Why is your name on the wall of the comedy store?

Oh, I've left out a major chapter. I started a stand-up comedy career back in 1969 with a partner by the name of Michael Richards. We had a duo. Uh-huh. Like the Michael Richards? The Michael Richards from Seinfeld and what have you. And we had a duo, and we played at the Troubadour back in 1969. And Doug Weston wanted to sign us to a contract or what have you.

So you were opening for musical acts? We were. I mean, a lot of, like, I'm finding this out, you know, before the store opened, really officially in, what, 72, 73. We were there the week that they opened, me and Michael Richards. When Sammy opened it? Sammy still owned the comedy store. Right. So Berski was parking cars or whatever.

I don't remember, but it was Sammy's place. Right. But before that, there was no real venue other than opening for musical acts. Exactly. Like Steve Martin as well. And Richard Pryor and other people, and Lily Tomlin. The Troubadour. The Troubadour or the Ice House.

Michael and I never got any opening act gigs. He went off and joined the military, so I was on my own. So I did a single, and I started to get bookings at the Ice House. And I would open for Jennifer Warrens, and I would open for, oh God, I opened for Loggins and Messina. And at the Troubadour, I also opened for Neil Sedaka and Don McLean. Don McLean kind of discovered me at the Troubadour. And because of him, I went and I would occasionally open for him and open for other acts. Well, that's interesting. So who else? So Cheech and Chong was also the big success story.

Oh, yeah, they were huge then. It was sort of fascinating to me that they were made by the music industry. I mean, there was no comedy club. So all these music execs would be at the Troubadour because they had acts there. Right. And so Hollywood would come in. Hollywood was a much more intimate environment at that time. It was.

Like, you know, you could go to Tana's. You could go. Like, these places were the the places and it wasn't all spread out and then the business was intimate. So you could actually be at a place and someone could see you and it could change your life. Exactly. And it did for many people. You can listen to that full episode ad free with the WTF plus subscription. Go to the link on the episode description to sign up. And while you're there, you can click on the link to send me a question for the next ask Mark anything episode. There you go. Here's this.

Not a Les Paul jr. Stratocaster. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Boomer lives. Monkey and La Fonda. Cat angels everywhere. Boomer lives. Monkey and La Fonda. Cat angels everywhere.