WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1508 - Bobby Lee

Episode Date: February 1, 2024

In the thirteen years since Bobby Lee was last on WTF, he and Marc have grown to like each other more and more. For one thing, Marc taught Bobby how to tell time. But aside from that, they’ve shared a lot together as two veteran comics regularly working the same clubs, dealing with sobriety, and coming to terms with the changes around them. Marc and Bobby compare notes on relationships, podcasts, grudges, and having happiness for the success of their peers. To an extent. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Death is in our air. This year's most anticipated series, FX's Shogun, only on Disney+. We live and we die. We control nothing beyond that. An epic saga based on the global best-selling novel by James Clavel. To show your true heart is to risk your life.

When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive. FX's Shogun, a new original series streaming February 27th, exclusively on Disney Plus. 18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing with cannabis legalization. It's a brand new challenging marketing category.

legalization. It's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Lock the gates! and ACAS Creative. What the fuckers, what the fuck buddies, what the fuck Knicks, what's happening, I'm Mark Maron. This is my podcast, welcome to it, it's been my podcast for a lot of years now.

Oh my god, my cosmic timing, at least it was right on the money once in my fucking life. I had a weird experience today in the locker room at the gym. Where's that going? I know, it's a pretty good setup, right? That can go anywhere. But some guy, so I'm going over to the gym with my broken foot, of course, my broken foot in the boot that I got to wear around the clock like a cast for two weeks.

And my biggest panic was about drifting off the exercise routine, primarily because, I don't know, it took a lifetime to establish. I know there's part of me that wants nothing to do with it. And I somehow have been victorious over that part of me. And I'm trying to just deal with this broken foot. And again, it's not cancer. I'm not losing a foot.

I'm not losing a hand. I'm not, you know, there's a lot of things to be grateful for. It's not even necessarily as bad a broken foot could be. As bad as, it's not an ankle. It's a metatarsus. It's my fifth metatarsal. Down towards the towards the the heel, not up towards the toe. So it's a little it's a little delicate.

Try and avoid surgery here, people. But but a lot goes through my mind. I you know what? Maybe maybe we don't we don't need to talk about this right away. I would like to say Bobby Lee is on the episode today. Bobby Lee, who I love. The last time he was on was 13 years ago. That's crazy. Episode 137.

He's had a whole life since then. Lots of movies, lots of TV shows, including Reservation Dogs. He's got a couple of podcasts that do very well. Tiger Belly and Bad Friends with Andrew Santino, the devil. Andrew Santino, sent by the devil, but in a good way. A lot of times the devil sends some pretty pleasant people. I think Bert Kreischer's mad at me. I don't know.

Did I say something about Bert Kreischer? I saw him last night. He seemed mad at me. I guess I could text him. You know, it's weird. I'm getting older and sometimes, you know, I say shit again. For years, I was very careful about saying shit

and I might've said a little something. All it takes is a little something. You'll see. I'll talk to Bobby here. He's very sensitive. I was very careful about saying shit. And I might've said a little something. All it takes is a little something. You'll see. I'll talk to Bobby here. He's very sensitive. And I'm just one of those people that if I say something that's got a barb to it, it's fucking, you know, it's going to be hard to remember.

It's like a fucking fish hook getting it out. And you remember it. And that's why I can't do that stuff lightly. I still got to be careful. Sometimes it comes out of a place. And I always think it's pretty funny, and I think it's honest, but you got to pay the price. A lot of that stuff, all these guys that say you can't say anything anymore, I think if you apply that to saying it about people you know, then it makes sense as to why that any time you say something, there's going to be consequences. If you know it's got a barb to it, if it's got a little, the possibility of a puncture wound, then someone's going to be like, ow, what the fuck?

And, you know, there's degrees of that, but it doesn't go away easy, even after it heals. Years later, see that? That's from that thing you did, that thing you said. Consequences, I guess, is the point I'm trying to make. But anyway, Bobby and I, we go back as far as we go back, however far that is, when I got to L.A. But, you know, he's like the funniest fuck. He's one of the funniest fucks out there fucking being funny. And, uh, and I see him all the time and this always, it's always

sometimes not always a little weird because he thinks I'm thinking something or he thinks I'm acting a certain way or he thinks I'm looking at him weird, sensitive guy. I'm a sensitive guy, but I got nothing but love for this guy. So I think that comes through with this conversation. It's pretty funny. We're pretty funny together. And he's a guy that I can bust some balls with a little bit. I don't know if you people are new to the show or what. I don't know when you came in, but sometimes there are people that I'll, I'll bust balls on a little bit. And it's usually not anybody. It's not anybody that I know can't take it. It's usually a rapport. It's usually who I, someone who I assume will take a couple of good shots at me or kind of bring me down a little bit, goes back and forth. That's the fun of it. It doesn't happen anywhere

else in my life anymore, but here sometimes at the comedy store, sometimes I say things in the hallway. Me and Bobby had a good time. We, you know, we're doing some of these repeat guests because we realized like 13 years was the last time I had them on the show. Now this is not a regular round Robinin thing. I don't have a crew of people that I run through this thing every few months. I should only because there are some people I like talking to, mostly comics. And some of these people that are doing a second time or a third time have not been on since they were children. Almost children.

been on since they were children. Almost children. My show at the Castro Theater in San Francisco is this Saturday and it's sold out. Next month I'm in Portland, Maine at the State Theater on Thursday, March 7th. Medford, Massachusetts at the Chevalier Theater on Friday, March 8th. Providence,

Rhode Island at the Strand Theater on Saturday, March 9th. Tarrytown, New York at the Tarrytown Music Hall on Sunday, March 10th. Atlanta, Georgia, I'm at the Buckhead Theater on Friday, March 22nd. Madison, Wisconsin at the Barrymore Theater on Wednesday, April 3rd. Milwaukee, Wisconsin at the Turner Ballroom on Thursday, April 4th. Chicago at the Vic Theater, Friday, April 5th. Minneapolis at the Pantages on Saturday, April 6th.

Austin, Texas at the Paramount Theater on Thursday, April 18th as part of the Moon Tower Comedy Festival. And I've got shows coming up later in the year in Montclair, New Jersey,

Philadelphia, Washington, D.C., Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Detroit, Charleston, South Carolina, Charlotte, North Carolina, Durham, North Carolina, Vancouver, and Seattle. Go to WTFpod.com slash tour for tickets. All right?

You got it? For those of you following along, Hertz made right by me. Hertz refunded me the money for the five days they charged me for on a rental that I only had for one day. They came through. I don't know if they would have come through. I passed through them, but they did their investigation. They checked the tape, I guess, but either way that resolved itself. I just want people to know that there's hope in the world. A lot of times we get into tussles with these big corporations and we have to relent. We have to buckle. We have to say to ourselves, it doesn't really fucking matter, does it? It's not that. Why am I? I'm not going to return it. What's the point? Whatever the case is. Why complain? Who am I even talking to? Did that email go anywhere?

But Hertz, I pestered them because that was a big chunk of change and it was just ridiculous. But whatever. Worked out okay. There's hope in the world. There's fights to be fought with car rental agencies anyways. So the broken foot thing, I don't know. Look, the doc said, you know, keep the boot on all the time and you can walk on it. Just don't take the boot off. Fine. So I'm freaking out about the, about the exercise,

just about like adjusting my mindset, you know, and I'm going to keep blaming Hoka shoes. Be careful with those fucking Hoka's. They're like wearing heels. There's like four fucking inches of foam under your back, under the heel for running. But I mean, I just, you know, I came down with weights and that, that heel just like I had a little twist to it.

And that thing went right under me. I'm not saying they're bad shoes. I'm just saying don't use them for just working out. Not the ones with those two to three inch fucking foam heels. All you got to do is come down on it a little bit wrong and boom. You're fucking wearing a boot. You're busting an ankle. But I knew it was coming, you guys.

You know, you keep exercising throughout your life. When you get old, you're kind of just waiting for it, man. You're kind of just waiting for it. But here's the thing. So I think I'm going to be okay. And I know you're all just worried about this. I think I can do the bike. I can do the bike with the back on it.

And I can work out my upper body. Bike will take care of my ass and my legs. And I'll work out on the upper body. And I can work out my upper body. Bike will take care of my ass and my legs, and I'll work out on the upper body, and I can drive pretty good. Everything's all right. But it's weird what people say. You're walking around. I realize, I go to the gym,

I never see anybody with a broken foot. Why not? Am I the only one breaking their feet these days? But people at the gym, you know, everyone's got advice. I walk into the fucking locker room and some guy, I don't know.

He goes, Hey Mark. Oh, what happened? I said, I broke my foot. He's like, man,

when it rains, it pours with you, huh? Everything. You know, when something happens, it's all the way. And I'm like,

who are you? Yeah. It just seems like you're one of those guys. Just when it rains, it pours. I'm like, who are you? Yeah, it just seems like you're one of those guys. Just when it rains, it pours. I'm like, all right, take it easy. It happens. Bum me out, that guy. And then right away, another guy walks in.

He's like, I had to wear one of those for months. I had to cast up to my waist. Then they put it down to my knee. And then I finally got one of those. I felt like freedom. He's like, you'll be all right a few months, month and a half. I had to wear one another time. Just sharing war stories about wearing a boot.

Man, and I just hope that other guy heard that. This is how you talk to somebody. You don't be like, geez, man, it's black cloud over your head. God, I'm surprised you can do anything. How do you have any uh have confidence or or hope at all when it rains it pours man look at you your broken foot what's next shut the fuck up holy jeez let's talk to me about your experience with breaking something. Okay, so Bobby Lee, this is how you do it. This is where this goes.

This one, the one with John Oliver, this is how comics go. This is how we do it. Bobby's in the upcoming movie Drugstore June, which comes out February 23rd. That's Esther Povitsky's movie with Beverly D'Angelo, James Remar is in it, Bobby, a couple other comics.

It's funny. I liked it. So this is me just, you know, coming right into it here. We're coming right into it with Bobby Lee. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category.

And I want to let you know, we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. and ACAS Creative.

Death is in our air. This year's most anticipated series, FX's Shogun, only on Disney+. We live and we die. We control nothing beyond that. An epic saga based on the global best-selling novel by James Clavel. To show your true heart is to risk your life. When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive.

FX's Shogun. A new original series streaming February 27th exclusively on Disney+. 18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. I just farted. I'm so sorry, dude. You did? Yeah. It was so rude.

I'm so sorry. It's bad. It's bad. It's so bad, dude. I'm so sorry. Why? What'd you... I'm sorry.

What'd you eat? Maybe it won't come over here. It will. I'm so sorry, dude. Maybe'm so sorry. Why? What'd you... I'm sorry. What'd you eat? Maybe it won't come over here. It will. I'm so sorry, dude. Maybe take a break for a second. Wait. Spray it. I'll just spray this hand sanitizer.

Okay, good. Yeah? Yeah, that's good. Yeah? Yeah, yeah. Does your gas frighten you? It frightens me, yeah. Well, it's the kind of foods I eat, you know?

I eat late. But that's not a kind. What do you mean? That's a time. Yeah, it's a time. It's not a kind, it's a time. I have a time food thing. Because I had like four in the morning, I was so hungry, I was sleeping, I was like, I'm going to get McDonald's because I know they just opened the breakfast at five in the morning.

And I got Egg McMuffin and stuff like that. And then I sleep right after I eat it. So I think it just bruised my stomach while I'm sleeping. Anyway, I don't want to start that way. You don't? I sleep right after I eat it. Yeah. So I think it just bruises my stomach. Yeah. While I'm sleeping. Anyway. I don't want to start that way. You don't? I don't.

I don't want to start like that. I don't want to start that way. It's too late. But how do you open it? You don't have like a jingle jangle song or whatever? Yeah, I don't do that now. Oh. Oh, you don't do jingle jangle now?

No, jingle jangle, you drop it in later. Oh, I didn't know that. I'm sorry. Did I really teach you how to tell time? Yeah, you did. It's crazy. Why? What do you mean why? You're a grown person. It just never made

sense to you. Why would I need to learn it? Oh, because you grew up without clocks. Yeah, no, I mean, we always had digital. Right. Yeah, and then as a kid, I just didn't care what time it was. My parents were like, oh, it's six o'clock, come inside. They didn't do that, you know? No. No, I just found it

was interesting it was a very exciting moment on your podcast to teach you how to read a clock it was huge and now I read it at like a train stations

oh yeah you can do it yeah yeah it's a whole other thing you have it's great thank you for that skill set I really appreciate it and I haven't been here

in how long that's a good question four years maybe god I wonder when that was it feels like it was longer than four years. So long ago, because it's the old house. It's the old house, so hold on.

We can find that out. So I've been to your house, though, right? You've been to my house, yeah. Oh, no, dude. You were here a long time ago, dude. How long? Oh, boy. 2011?

No. There's no way. 2011, Bobby Lee. Wow. That's like 12, 13 years ago. I know, dude. Wow. Can you believe that?

That's insane. Well, could I say something, too? Yeah, sure. I feel like I like you more now. Yeah. I feel like we're more friends. Yeah. You know, and I really grew to like you.

Yeah. I mean, does that sound weird? Well, I think before there was like, and sometimes I think you liked me more. And also, you made assumptions about what I was thinking all the time. Well, I don't know. I don't know. No, but I mean, even up to like a year ago, I'd come up to you and you'd be like, what? What are you doing?

No, because that's in a joking tone. Yeah, no. We laugh about that. Sure. But I think 10 years ago, I think I was right about some things. Yeah. Like what? Okay, I don't want to start a fight with you, but I just want to say, I think that maybe

like 12 years ago, you were in a different place in your life. Probably. Yeah, for sure. And I think that you were in a, you were more moody. Yeah, yeah, yeah And I thought, I think that you were in a, you were more moody. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so I think that's, I was trying to like.

But I never not liked you. I know, but in my mind, when you're moody, I'm like, oh, Mark, don't say hi. Oh, I see.

And then some of your intros were always like, weird sometimes. Yeah. Your intros were weird. My intros? Now they're great. Oh, you mean on the show? No, when we do stand up.

Like 14 years ago, your intros were fucking. My intros? Now they're great. Oh, you mean on the show? No, when we do stand-up. Like, 14 years ago, your intros were fucking terrible. I mean, like, I swear to God, you said one time, he likes to give energy and dance like a clown because he wants you to like him. Really? Something like that. No, I don't think so. Oh, yeah.

And I was in the back of the room going, uh-oh, this is going to be bad. And then you build a resentment, too. You're like, oh, this guy doesn't like me. And now you're, like, very respectful, because you're in a different place, I think. Okay, you know, I think that's probably, like, I don't know.

Whenever someone tells me I say something awful, I hear them say it to me, and I'm like, I wouldn't have phrased it like that. No, you phrase it differently, for sure. But in your mind, he's a clown, and he wants you to like him. Yeah, he uses energy. I think you used energy, right, and his personality for something like that. So what I was doing was undercutting everything about your actual jokes.

Yeah, it doesn't even, it's not that, Mark. It's just like. Okay, why would you do that, right? So what I was doing was undercutting everything about your actual jokes. Yeah. It doesn't even. It's not that, Mark. It's just like. Okay. Why would you do that? What? Why would I do that?

That's the question. Okay. Okay. I believe you. And I apologize. But you already apologized. I know. We're past that.

I know that. But I like hearing it. Yeah, yeah. Do you have any other good stories where I'm a dick? No, no. Because now I look at you and I forget about those times. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I go, oh, Mark, I want to go say hi. And we talk and I tell you my problems.

Yeah. And it's great. Yeah, we have a better relationship. I think we broke through into a better place when you kind of pulled your shit together for the second time or third time or whatever. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. The last time.

The last time, yeah, yeah, yeah. Right? Two years ago, yeah. The last time. The last time, yeah, yeah, yeah. Right? Two years ago, maybe. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I have given dickish intros. You have? Yeah. Why? I don't think I know that I'm doing it.

I think depending on how my set went and how cranky I am at the end of it. Yeah. But like Dov Davidoff will never, never. I know. Never talk to me. I heard about that. Yeah. But like, Dov Davidoff will never, never, never talk to me. I heard about that. Yeah. I wasn't there. Yeah,

and on top of that, I was using the R word. I guess it was before. What did you, do you remember? I used to call him the thinking man's retard. But he is!

I know. It's a perfect description. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was the bit he was doing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, he, yeah, he, because I love him,

so I want to, like, you know, I don't want to, are you saying that he's, on stage, isn't who he really is? Yes. Yes. I guess, I get what you're saying.

Yeah, I mean, and he's been doing that forever, just sort of like, you know, he's taking his jacket off half the time. But don't you think that's the case for all of us a little or no? No, of course. I mean, I'm not, like, again, it's hard for me when I see someone doing something so abstract to their real personality. Yeah.

I know it's a bit, but I mean, that's the bit he's doing is how I described it. I mean, I think you do a bit, but you're pretty much yourself. You're just amplified. Amplified, yeah, yeah, yeah. You do an energy thing in the clowning. God, I'm fucking, you fucking, you fucking asshole. I swear to fucking God. It just brought me back, man.

Yeah, yeah. You know, it hurts, but it does it. I'm fine. I'm over it. You know what I mean? I'm kidding. It's so fun. sort of fucking I really just brought me back yeah yeah you know it hurts but it doesn't I'm fine I'm over it you know what I mean it's so fun

I'm kidding it's so fun but you're right I mean but let me see if I you know what you do that's so interesting

to me like if I think of Mark Maron oh he's confident he knows who he is and all that but you still have little paranoias.

Dude, totally. That's why we get along. I know you think that way every time you say that about me. It's like, what are you talking about? You're Marc Maron. I'm like, what are you talking about? Yeah. I know, because I see you think, you'll see somebody on stage and go, I don't like following

this guy. The audience is going to like him. And it's like, I'm thinking to myself, you're fucking Marc Maron. What the fuck are you talking about? But don't you feel those things yes i do yeah but then when i see you do it i go oh i see that in myself yeah and i i don't like it yeah it never goes away i know but do you like it that part of me yeah it's no it drives me nuts it doesn't make any sense it just drives me nuts no but does it not make sense i mean i, I know when I'm going to have to struggle,

and I don't know that I feel like it. You know, there's sometimes I can follow somebody, and it's a nice even keel. Or let me ask you, who do you, I can tell you who I, who do you not like following? Sebastian in the main room can be tricky. Tricky, yeah. But that's, but can I tell you why? Because it's a whole different time zone. Tricky, yeah. But that's...

Can I tell you why? Because it's a whole different time zone. That's not why. Why? Well, don't get angry. I'm not angry. I have my own point of view. I have my own point of view.

I'm never going to get angry. I think this is the theory on Sebastian. Yeah. A lot of his audience... I follow him in the improv. Yeah. And when I went up on stage, I looked in the audience, I go I go oh this audience is completely different

it's older women suburban-y and then I go what the fuck and I poke my penis they're horror on their faces so I think it's his audience that comes in anyway so Sebastian who else?

I noticed that the other night. I played the Ice House. Oh, my God, why? I don't know why because I never do it. I'll tell you why because it's crazy, and I think you would appreciate it. For some reason, here's the deal. The other night I was watching TV during the Golden Globes, and I saw Robert Downey Jr. on some dumb medicine commercial,

and I'm like, how much could that fucking guy need? And it dawned on me that no matter how much you respect somebody for how long, like, you know, if they're up there and you're like, that guy's the real deal, eventually they will get old and do anything for money. And it's kind of disheartening. But the point I'm making is that that guy, Ciritello, who I never work for, I never do those shows, but he's like, you want to do the new Ice House? I'm like, will you give me cash?

And he's like, I'll give you cash. I'm like, all right. And it was just about, I don't know. It's not even that I need it that much. Yeah. But that's why I did it. But the thing that we're talking about, like I had to follow Nealon and I had to follow Sebastian and they're both pretty difficult because they're very dug in.

You know, like whatever I do, it I do, it's pretty really me. Yeah. And those guys are really not them. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, it's an act. For some reason, I never see what I do as an act. And it fucks my head up.

Okay, but I don't really want to follow Burr ever. Yeah. Because that's when I heard it. Oh, yeah. The other night, yeah. And I don't, and he usually won't bump me, you know, but the rest I can manage, you know, really. It's just because they get it to such a pitch sometimes.

And because they're such big stars, you know, the expectation is different. And I know I'm going to have to start at ground zero. And half my set might go into rebuilding an audience around what I do. That's all. Yeah. You know, I understand. Yeah. It's not like, it's not a total matter of lack of confidence. It's just sort of like, I want this to be easier tonight. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I don't mind if an audience sucks as long as it wasn't done to them before me. Right. Or someone did. But I just, when I see you, you stroke your head sometimes.

You're kind of like pacing. Yeah. I just relate to it and I go, maybe it'll just never go away for me either then. What? It's exhausting, dude. No, I'm just having this gasp on my own time. Yeah. But everything's good with you, right?

What do you mean? Well, I mean like... What do you mean? Well, we talk sometimes. I know, but what is it? What do you mean? Go spill it. Well, you're very excited.

Like, since I last talked to you, you've done, you know, amazingly well with the podcast, several of them. Yes. Changed your whole life. Yeah. Yeah, it's great. Thank you. I mean, every time I see you, you're like, I can't believe it.

Yeah, and thank you for starting the thing. Yeah, yeah. You're a pioneer. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. But it's been amazing, right? It's been up and down.

It's been painful. It's been great. It's been bad. It's been all around. That's life. Sure. You know what I mean? Yeah.

It's been bad and good, but at the end of the day, I just, honestly, I just, you know, I'm 52. I could die at any moment. Really? And I can't, like what you said,

like the things that go through our mind at the club, I got to do less of it because it's like, it doesn't make any sense to do it. Less of that kind of thinking? Any of that kind of thinking. But not less comedy less comedy no i'm always going to go up i'm always going to pod and if they want me to act i'll do that but it's like it's you know those things used to um

it was like a drug to me yeah right yeah i used to feel something inside me i would get dopamine hits yeah from the from the laughs but just not just laughs we're getting jobs and success and all that stuff and i realized that none of that is going to fix me so i've been really kind of just just pouring my energy into other things you know like what like aa and stuff and that's working yeah maybe i gotta do that what you doing service well i started my own i started my own meeting i keep inviting to you never show up it's wednesday at noon i'm trying to i'm trying to come i don't know i've not but i haven't been going to meetings but that has that alone yeah has done something a little different for my life yeah really yeah because it started off with just a few people but then now now it's a place where I can – there are guys that are at our level or a little below that – you know what I mean?

They just feel weird about 12 Steps. They've never been. Sure. And so I just go up to them and I go, I have this kind of, not a private, but like a smaller meeting. You're going to know the people. And I think just try to come. And they do come. I should go.

Probably be helpful. Yeah. To me and others. But it's just not that. It's just like, I think just getting out of myself is like. Yeah. What do you mean? It is.

I don't know. Is it? Yeah. I mean. Look, dude. like yeah what i mean it is i don't know is it yeah i mean look dude i just i just quit nicotine a week ago yeah and i'm losing my fucking mind yeah i'm like a fucking resentment machine yeah i'm like old style old style like if i don't keep my focus someone's gonna go down yeah yeah you know i'm gonna say something shitty yeah i'm gonna do something shitty i'm gonna eat some shitty stuff but but i do feel better when i do service in a way but i can rationalize anything

like right now i'm doing service i'm getting out of myself talking to you it's very you feel good yeah yeah yeah i feel like i'm talking to another alcoholic yeah and this is what it's built on yeah i mean but there are times i don't need to do there are weeks where I'm like not you know me calling my sponsor involved right but it's like and I think I could stay well I'll have two years again two weeks from now

it's pretty fresh but I just know because I've had 12 years I've had 17 years of sobriety before the 12th so I had 12 years of sobriety so Before the 12th? So I had 12 years of sobriety. So I got sober when I was from 17 to like 28. Yeah, yeah. And then I had 17 years after that.

I got a relapse for 17 years. Then I had a year, and then now I have two years. So it's like, but I know, I just know that lack of meetings and detaching is, I think, the thing. Yeah. That's going to spiral me down. Sure. Yeah, yeah. So much weed around.

It's fucking crazy. Dude. I mean, once there was four weed shops down the street. Once they started opening up on my house, I just knew I was going to relapse. Yeah. And let me tell you something. It's great. It's fucking fantastic.

It's the only thing chipping away at me. Yeah. Like, I don't, I'm not feeling craving. Yeah. But, like, there's that part of you that's sort of like, it's legal. Yeah. And, but I know it'll completely make me into, like, this detached, kind of haunted, paranoid person. What happened to me, Mark?

Because that's what you relapsed on. Yeah. What happened to me was, I remember I was shooting Magnum PI, and I was going to- In Hawaii? In Hawaii. So two and a half years ago, I was shooting Magnum. I was going to relapse.

I knew I was going to relapse. I told everyone I was. In fact, I went to a meeting, a men's meeting. In Hawaii? No, in LA and a speaker like where there was an audience at a church and I announced to the meeting three days from now I'm relapsing yeah but I'm saying it here in front of 40 men yeah right because I want to see if and everyone came after me after me like don't do it this and that but I had already decided

yeah so I remember like taking a bunch of gummies and getting on the plane to go to Hawaii. And I took it and I laughed through the whole flight. It was one of the greatest human experiences. You know what I mean? And then that week in Hawaii was the greatest week of my life. Yeah. Laughing down the street was so fun. Yeah.

Watching YouTube, it was so great. Yeah. Three months later, smoking 24 hours a day and not being able to get high oh right and i couldn't eat sleep and i was paranoid and i had suicidal thoughts it was like it was fucking terrible from the weed from the weed smoking strong weed yeah because you know what they you know i read somewhere yeah i said that um people because i had a huge trauma growing up. Yeah.

Right? So sometimes when you get- We talked about that last time. As an adult, when you smoke weed, it has the adverse effects. Of re-triggering it? No. What happens is that instead of getting hungry and sleepy, you get paranoid.

I couldn't eat for weeks, days I mean. I was losing weight and I couldn't sleep. It had the adverse effect. No shit. Yeah, yeah. You know how sometimes, like I'm on Ritalin, if somebody that doesn't have ADHD takes Ritalin, they're like hyper.

But when I take it, I'm mellow. I think it's that same kind of realm of... Well, I just, I know Well, I know how that happens. I have memories in my life where drugs stop working, and it's the worst. Yeah. Because it just happened with nicotine. I saw you the other day. You said you wanted a Coke pouch.

And I was like, I want it so bad, but I just stopped. Because it got to that point where I was doing it all the time. I was going to sleep with that shit in my mouth. And then I just started to feel like shit, and my stomach was fucked up, and I'm still doing it. And I'm like, dude, whatever's going on in your body is superseding the good effects of this. So either man up and get on real medicine

or just fucking go cold turkey and fucking deal. Yeah, I mean, what's wrong with taking like zinc, whatever those. I don't think there's anything wrong with it. It's just like I get a buzz from it, though. Yeah. So fine. No, no, no. It's not even a problem.

But I wasn't getting the buzz as much. I was just getting nauseous. It was upsetting my stomach. I started to think I had pancreatic cancer. I decided that I got it. I had a stomach bug and I thought this is pancreatic cancer. And then like, who knows? I don't think I do.

I went and got blood tests yesterday. I've been off the fucking shit for a week. And I feel all right. I want nothing more than to have one in my mouth right now. Yeah, yeah. All right. I mean, yeah. I know the withdrawal thing.

So how many days has it been? A week. First, I did it on the first. It's all right. But like, what am I supposed to do? I got off the coffee, too. I'm drinking tea. And then your whole life is just sort of like,

this isn't what I want. Let me ask you something. Yeah, buddy. I think when I look at you, I know we're different on stage. I mean, obviously. Yeah. We just have different approaches when it comes to comedy and stuff.

But in terms of like people, I think I relate to you more and more as i get older yeah and i look at you and i go because um are we gonna die alone i don't know doesn't everybody i know but i mean i'm what i'm saying is is that without a significant other like you know like just listen you look at like movies like dr. Zhivago. Sure. One of my favorite movies is Paris, Texas. I just watched it again. It's so good.

On Saturday, they're showing it at the Egyptian. Oh, wow. And, you know, the heartache. Of him driving off? Him just, you know, the love, his love loss, him going into the desert and wandering around the desert. But you know why? Yeah.

Because she set him on fire. I know. I know. But at the deep, I know know that would that would yeah but deep down it's like yeah love loss yeah right yeah yeah yeah sure so it's like but i what i'm saying is is that and i'm going to honestly say this go ahead i i don't know since i was in my early 20s i don't know, since I was in my early 20s, I don't know. I mean, I loved Kalilah, you know, my ex, a lot, right?

And maybe there was, I was in love with her at some point, but it's like, I feel like, and she's a great, but I don't know what else to say. Yeah. Because people are so harsh with her on the internet.

Yeah. And I just want to say to people, she's my best friend. I trust her implicitly, and I love her so much. She's a good woman. Yeah. Anyway, that being said, I don't know, because I've been dating and stuff, and I don't know if I'm going to fall in love again, dude, ever.

What? I know. I know. I'm relating. What's that noise? It's me relating. Oh, yeah. I'm seeing somebody.

I haven't seen her in a long time, and I love her, and we're getting along great, but who the hell knows? I can't commit to something. I don't want to get married again. I've been married twice. Twice? I've been married twice. Mishna and somebody before that?

No, Mishna. Yes, Kim. Oh, I didn't know. And, you know, I'm just like, it scares me because, like, I'm too fucking codependent because eventually I just, so much goes unsaid, then I'm locked in and I'm just trying to make their life better and, you know, out of like fear, sometimes guilt, sometimes just wanting them to succeed and stuff. And then I just start to resent them

and it's a fucking nightmare. I don't like, like Lynn, she died. I think we had a shot at it. You know, I think that, you know, in terms of I did finally surrender to me to loving her and then that just got taken away from me dude and you know it got taken away from a lot of people but you know i don't know what happens after that and i still i still think i don't know if i'm ever going to be not fucked up about love yeah man i'm sorry for even bringing

it up man oh no it's all right i mean her. She was great. I loved her so much. Honestly, she directed me in some things. Honestly, she was so... Usually when I see directors and stuff, I'm just like, I don't know what they're saying. She was so clear with her notes.

You can tell honestly, dude, you guys looked correct. I know. I just, and you can tell, honestly, dude, you guys looked. Correct. Correct. I know. That's the, I think, you know, you guys looked perfect.

Like, oh, you look at Lynn, you go, oh yeah, that makes like sense. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. And I just, honestly, when all that went down, I just, I just don't know how, number one, you stay sober. Yeah. And I just don't know how you, it's just traumatic. I mean, the trauma.

Oh, God, dude. Like, I don't know where, I don't know what I'd do with it on a day-to-day basis to tell you the truth, you know, because. I mean, did you do EMDR and like? I did it. Okay, good. I did some EMDR. Yeah.

I certainly, you know, like you guys, everyone showed up for me you know because it was covid i wasn't going to sit here and drink i didn't even think to drink because there's one fucking thing about drugs and alcohol like once you get the hang of being sober is that you know it's not going to help yeah like the if there's one thing you know from spending any time in aa ever is that it's not going to help. If you forget that or you choose against it, that's fine. But you know all this is going to do is lead to more of this. Yeah.

But to speak to having somebody you love and you connect that way so deeply and kind of let go of yourself a little bit, open up a little bit, and then that goes away, it becomes difficult to see. because even if you're dating, there's part of you that's sort of like, what am I even looking for? I don't think there's going to be something better.

You know what I mean? You kind of know what's going on. So you're in this world of sort of like, all right, I'll try that. Yeah. Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I don't think we should close the door on it. And I think, like, right now, even talking about it,

like, my relationship is fine. But, like, I've also surrendered to the idea that... Oh, you have a relationship now? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, kid. I love her, yeah. Yeah. But the thing is, like, you know,

I don't know what to expect anymore. And I'm not saying that i was a totally different person with lynn but like the it's jarring obviously that she died in that like it all made sense in the world on paper emotionally you know so it was sort of like i had that moment where i'm like it worked out it fucking worked out yeah mean, you know, I'll tell you why I think it was good is because usually like,

if I'm dating somebody, I don't want to bring them to the store. Right. Because that's where my family is and my friends, my place of work.

Yeah, yeah. And she was always there and you felt comfortable about it. That's how I knew it was like, oh, she's a part of the group. And also,

she knows all of us too not just because of you because of other work sure right so she felt like she was a part of the universe of yeah yeah the comedy business yeah yeah the ecosystem of it yeah yeah and then what i am saying i said i don't know man that's all right're all right. It's all right. Yeah, I'm sorry, man. Well, that's what life is. What the fuck is that? That's a piece of squash. And you're going to eat that? Well, I just brought it in here today.

I don't know what you're eating. Oh, okay, okay. It looks like it's moldy or something. It's roasted? Yeah, roasted. It's got spices on it. Oh, I don't know what that's about. Do you like kabocha squash?

No, I don't want to eat that, no. No, I don't want you to eat it, but you don't like it? No, I would never eat that, no. Really? It looks like Pog Pog to me. Pog Pog? Yeah. What's that?

You don't know Pog Pog? What is that? What is it? What do you mean? I don't know what it is. Pog Pog? It's a type of dish. From?

From the Philippines. Oh. What they do is they, um, I don't know if I can find out that. Why am I the asshole here? Like, has everyone heard of Pog Pog? I just assume that you know what Pog Pog is. I don't know what Pog Pog is. Do you know what, um, um, Balut is? is. I don't know what PogPog is. Do you know what Balut is?

No. You don't know Balut? No. Okay. I'm sorry. I'll tell you what both things are. How do you know what they are? Because my ex-girlfriend Kalilah is Filipino.

No, no, let me finish. Yeah. Am I getting too emotional? No. So let me just say something. My ex-girlfriend Kalilah is Filipino, so we would go to Philippines

all the time. So I know what these things are. Okay, okay. So Balut number one is a, it's a duck egg. Yeah. Okay? Yeah.

And basically like, maybe like a month or a couple weeks before it hatches, then they boil it. Right. And then they. So there's a bird in there.

There's a bird in there with fur and stuff. Oh yeah. And eyeballs. It's very good. Okay. And then they. So there's a bird in there. There's a bird in there. Yeah. With fur and stuff. Oh yeah. And eyeballs. It's very good. Okay. But Pog Bog is, and I'm making fun of the Filipinos.

I love Filipinos so much. I don't think you're making fun of them. I know, but it's a. You're about to? No, not making fun of them. It's just a,

it's a, what they do is they go, they go around to like dumpsters and trash and they find food. And then they kind of like, you know, I think they pan it a little bit like it's gold. Right. And then they take old food, seafood, meat, vegetables. Like rotten or not rotten? It could be.

Okay. Right. And then they just deep fry it and then they eat it. And that's like a delicacy or just something? No, it's because it's impoverished. No, I understand. That makes sense to me. But you're talking about it like it's like, oh, it's a national dish.

Everybody loves it. You can get it in a restaurant here. No, no, no. There's a Pog Pog restaurant down in Melrose. Is that what I? No, no, no. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what I was reading.

So you're saying that looks like garbage? Yeah. Okay. I's what I was reading. So you're saying that looks like garbage. Yeah. Okay. I should have just said that. It just looked like it's been there for like a month. No, no, no. Yeah, yeah. All right.

That's fine. I'm sorry. My bad. My bad. When are you getting your car fixed? Probably never. Hmm. Yeah.

You know, it's funny. I don't care. No, I know you don't care. But it's like one of those... Yeah, I mean, I don't know. I mean, people just go, I don't care. No, I know you don't care. But it's like one of those. Yeah, I mean, I don't know. I mean, people just go, I don't care. But it's so funny. Like, you had that car like 10 minutes.

I know. I was on Laurel. Some guy just smashed and then just drove away. It's a nice car, too. Like, nice paint job. What is that paint job? Matte black? Yeah, matte black.

That's nice. Yeah. And it looked pretty cool. What kind of car was it? I still have it. I know. It's an Audi. Yeah, nice car. I still have it. But it looked pretty cool. What kind of car was it? I still have it. I know. It's an Audi. Yeah.

Nice car. I still have it. But I don't care about, I'm not talking about white people. I think you can talk about white people. Can I talk about white people a little bit? Yeah, yeah. If you could probably,

maybe put Jew in there too. Like white Jews. I don't put Jews in there. Okay. Yeah, yeah. White people. I don't think it's a white thing. I think it's just like some people.

I just want to say that. Some people really care like you know like I had a friend like years ago had like a someone keyed his car it just

consumed him and I'm just like who cares well that's why I don't buy expensive cars because I'll fuck up a car almost immediately I bought a Camry

you know hybrid and like three days after I bought it I fucked the whole door up and I didn't get it fixed. And it was just sort of a reminder that like, see what happens when you get something new and nice. Just have this be here for that. Yeah. Yeah. Right. And this car, the, the one I

have now, it's a top line Toyota, but it's not like fucking fancy, but I've, for some reason with this one in particular, I'm like this, I think this car looks cool. I don't know why. It's not an Audi. But it got fucked up because the gardener across the street backed into it. And we backed out at the same time. And he knocked the fucking bumper. And it didn't look like a big deal. And I wanted to get a little body work on it.

So I let him off the hook. I'm like, he doesn't need this stress. I don't want to call his insurance. Oh, see, that's so cool. Yeah. $5,000. Really? Really? Really?

Do you regret not saying something? No, but it was a little more than I anticipated. It was like $2,000, $3,000. Yeah. But you know what? You're more like me. You're putting your money into the house. Yeah, yeah.

I mean, I don't do much with money. Yeah, I don't. I bought that hat. Yeah, but that I mean, I don't do much with money. Yeah, I don't. I don't, but like I bought that hat. Yeah, but that hat was crazy. I know. It's crazy, that hat. It's great though. It's a great hat.

It's great. But I wear hats like that. I know. You know what I mean? I know. I don't think I would ever do it. You would not do that? No.

I would not do it. Huh. Like when people see that hat, they're like, what the fuck is that hat? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it looks like a nice thing. Yeah, but it's like, I don't think it's, maybe you're right. I've never worn it.

Like when I see it on your head. But yeah, it's not the kind of money. We don't spend money like that. Am I too loud? Sometimes. But we don't spend money like that. Like people, people who have stupid money. Yeah. They have to shop at those places because they don't even think. They want to shop at there because they want people to know that money is garbage.

Yeah, yeah. It means nothing to them. See, like me, I buy that hat and I'm going to talk about it with you and other people in a secret way for the rest of my life. That hat is like it's at the bottom of a hamper in a rich person's house. They forgot they even had it And you wear it all the time So that's cool But are you a watch guy too?

No Dean did this Dean Del Rey Yeah Yeah he's one of those guys huh Well he's just like I got a guy guy Yeah

And then you're all of a sudden Spending a thousand dollars Ten thousand dollars At his guy I know you said that to me Yeah Hey One time he goes

Hey you gotta come down here Right now I go where It was um Some store In here right now. I go, where? It was some store in La Brea. Yeah, yeah. Right now. I go, why? They're running out of this jacket.

It'll look perfect on you. And I don't know what it was. I was just driving to La Brea, and I parked, and it was like $750. It's $750. And I bought it. I've not worn it once. Iron Heart was the store, right? No, I've done that.

He's done that with me. No, this was a Montclair jacket, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it was just like, when he's adamant about fashion, you know what I mean? Well, it's a very specific thing.

Yeah, yeah. And now he keeps buying it, but his belly's sticking out. He keeps buying these little teeny jackets. He opens his act now with it. He just walks on stage, he goes, I know this jacket. Yeah.

I'm one sandwich away from not being able to zip it up. Yeah, but he's a great guy. He got me these shoes. Oh, those are dope. That's the bootmaker, Brian the Bootmaker. Yeah, yeah. You have like a, can I say something? Sure.

You have a specific style that it'll never go out of style. Your style. Took a while. No, what do you mean? Took a while to find it really well i guess not i before it was more plaid shirts but now we've we're in solids yeah but i mean even the plaid still will never go out of style but what i'm saying is that you have a specific thing i think i've picked mine too yeah no it's good yeah yeah yeah but it's like you can wear anything you can wear anything i cannot that's not true i know why would you say something like that what does that mean because sometimes

you wear stuff and i'm like i could never wear that i can't wear it either but i still do not but i mean but but i like the way it looks and people make fun of me about it i don't care i know but i'm not making fun of you it's like like a peacock thing. Yeah, no, I get it. Yeah, yeah. Like orange pants are bright. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. You can do it. You're just too afraid. I guess that's true.

Like I had Lou Adler in here. He's like in his 90s. And he was wearing like, he looked like he bought all his clothes at the place I got that at. Oh, wow. And he looked real comfortable. Yeah, yeah. He's like one of those cool 90-year-old guys. Right, right, right, right.

But it's a whole thing. You can't just do one thing. Like you can't just, you thing like you can't just you know you can you you do the whole thing you got you got the crocs on yeah and then everything else comes up from that yeah yeah kind of makes sense well you do the same thing too yeah but with this shit yeah yeah yeah but it's like well we could we landed on something do you know what i mean i appreciate it i'm give you a compliment. No, I appreciate it. I just wanted to give you a fucking compliment. I'm very aware. I appreciate it.

Yeah, yeah. I like that you noticed. Yeah. Also, you and I have similar musical tastes, I think. We do. I think so. Like what? I mean, I'm pretty broad.

I'm pretty broad, too. Yeah, yeah. But, I mean, okay, I'll throw out an album. Yes. Have you ever listened to the Velvet Underground's third album? Yeah. The gray album. Sure.

Opens with Candy Says. Yeah, over and over. Yeah. Yeah, all of them. That whole album. Yeah. With Jesus. Yeah, Jesus.

Yeah, yeah. Jesus. What Goes On. What Goes On is one of my favorite songs in the world. The dueling guitars in the middle of What Goes On. I play that on stage all the time. You do? When I do music. So that's what I'm saying. Yeah. I dueling guitars in the middle of what's going on. I play that on stage all the time. You do? When I do music.

So that's what I'm saying. Yeah. I love. It's the best record ever. I can throw you an album you don't know about. What? So John Cale.

Yeah. You like his solo? Yeah. Paris 1919. Totally. Oh my God. See? I have a reissue

and I have an OG. Paris 1919. Yeah. I've got almost all the, I've got a lot of the John Cale records. Yeah. Really? Yeah. Hanky P OG. Paris 1919. Yeah. I've got almost all the, I've got a lot of the John Cal records. Yeah. Really?

Yeah. Hanky Panky know how. Yeah. Hanky Panky know how. I know, dude. Yeah. Yeah. There's another one called Fear.

It's very good. I don't know that one. There's a, and then he does some other stuff. He produced all those Nico records. Wow. A couple Nico records. And then there's like,

Brian Eno. I'm a big Brian Eno guy. Oh, huge Eno fan. Yeah. Love Eno. The'm a big Brian Eno guy. Oh, huge Eno fan. Love him. Love Eno. The best. But what about New Shit?

Oh, New Shit. Are you good with New Shit? Some of it. Like what? I listened to the Wet Leg album a couple times.

They're called Wet Leg. Yeah. I've been listening to some Courtney Barnett lately. I love her. Yeah. Yeah.

I'm a big thief. Yeah, I like them. I've got all their records. I like it it's emotionally jarring for me sometimes yeah yeah

she's intense she's great yeah but I got those records I like them how about Perfume Genius do you like them

love them really yep the first two records oh my god even that third record is pretty good yeah yeah

it's got that Blake Mills production it's kind of a big thing wow see that's what I'm saying yeah those first couple Perfume Genius records are great.

And nobody knows about him, I feel like. Do you? I think there's a Bowie-esque quality. Totally. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Totally. But I feel like it's a secret or something, Perfume Genius. But he must do alright. No, he's killing it. He is. I mean, he has his audience.

With this world, who knows, you know? I have no idea what's happening anymore i just don't what do you mean what do you mean i just don't know like it's i don't either it's like i don't know who new comics are i don't know how people make money i find out things every day where i'm like what yeah how is that person selling out that oh i see what you're saying but it's just but it's But it's just, but it's like, it's not even resentment. It's just that they're like, whatever we came up in you and I, because I've noticed this about like walking into conversations in the kitchen at the comedy store. You were

around longer than I thought, you know, you were around, like I got, I left the store, you know, 88, I'm out, but you must've come pretty close. No, I came in 95. Oh, but like, you know, 88, I'm out. But you must have come pretty close to that. No, I came in 95. Oh. But, like, you know the old-timers. I know a lot of the old-timers. Yeah. I mean, they were nice to me, but I knew them. Sure.

Yeah, yeah. Right, but they were actually, you know, really old by the time you saw them. Yeah, yeah. And they were just kind of old when I knew them. Yeah. But I saw them at the beginning of their decline. Ah. Like, I saw the beginning of the end of Jeff Altman.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I was there and they were mean and also, Yeah. not mean, but they were like

not inviting, but it's also, they were also in decline. Yeah. And also, comedy in general was in decline. It was a mess then.

So I didn't know what the fuck was, what I signed up for really. You know, obviously, you know, in 95 when I started, Yeah. I worked at the La the fuck was, what I signed up for really. You know, obviously, you know, in 95 when I started. Yeah. I worked at the La Jolla Comedy Store and I remember they had this yearbook.

Yeah. And I picked up the yearbook. I think you're in it. I doubt it. And anyway, there was, you know, and I looked at this Japanese lady. Yeah. And she was just a lot, there's a lot of photos of her in there. And I'm like, who is this?

And I'm also like, you know know she came before me yeah and so when i became a regular mitzi would like on the because i would work the door in la jolla on the weekends yeah and all the headliners that would come through malay yeah would have me mc yeah some of the shows yeah so i mc'd with tamayo a couple times yeah and she helped me immensely she because at that time I was very self-deprecating, especially with being my ethnicity. Yeah. You know what I mean?

Like, talking down about it. And she came up to me and she goes, Bobby, you don't have to talk down. You have to say the same joke, but spin it

so you're, you know, positive about it. And it was like a little tweak in my, you know what I mean, in my act. Yeah. And she really helped me it. And it was like a little tweak in my act that she really helped me out. And then I didn't see her. I moved to LA and never saw her.

And then one day I was walking down Sunset and I see this Japanese woman. She looked homeless. And she came up to me and she goes, Bobby, Bobby, it's Tamaya, Tamaya. I go, holy fuck. And she goes, I live in Hawaii now. And I go, oh, fuck, that's awesome.

Yeah. And she goes, look at, I don't know how, she had a digital photo, like a camera. And she goes, look, I live in the jungle. I go, oh. And she goes, and look, I eat cat meat. And I look on this board, like it's like a chopping board. Yeah. A makeshift.

In a picture. In a picture. And on the side of, yeah, on the side of, I see a severed cat's head. So she lives in the jungle hunting cats. And then I was telling somebody the other day about it. I'm not kidding you. You're telling me about it. And then they Googled it and it was on YouTube.

So she's putting it on YouTube. There's videos of it on YouTube. Uh-huh. Or Vimeo or one of those. You know what I mean? Is this a new, is she trying to be a very specific type of influencer? I don't know.

But she went, and because, you know, I have three cats. You have three cats. I love cats. It was very jarring. Sure. Well, there's a lot of them out in the wild

doing nothing but killing off birds. Oh, right. So maybe there's a lot of them out in the wild doing nothing but killing off birds. So maybe there's a balance to be found. We'll see her on planet Earth or something. It's so sad, though. Sometimes I wonder about the people when they come around, you know? It's wild. But what, because I was

telling Frank the other day, he's a younger comic, and he came up to me and he was like, so. Frank. Which guy's that? Frank. Is he a store guy? Yeah.

Oh, okay. What the fuck's his name? Anyway. And he came up to me, and he goes, you know, he goes, I don't ever want to end up like that.

Like Tamayo? No, he goes, just end up like a comic that almost made it, and they fizzle out and nothing happens toward the end and they still chase it

oh dude I know and I go you can't yeah what how are you gonna know when do you make that decision

what did you tell him look I said well I said it was positive I go well in this age of the internet yeah

you know what I mean everyone's got a shot at any age I think that's true I think a lot of those guys like altman they could have maybe dude some of them have aol accounts i mean you know that's the level you're talking i know i know if you don't like i'm just on the cusp of like i'm like on the cusp of Gen X, and I had to adapt just by nature of the business. I was of an age where it was still possible. But guys 10 years older than me, good fucking luck. Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

They didn't have the access to it. Well, they did, but they just didn't make the jump or have the incentive. Yeah, I guess there's a lot of fear, and you know what I mean? Also, when the internet first started, we had no idea what it was going to be. Yeah, but I'm done, dude. I can't do any more platforms.

Like, you know, and like even the fact that we don't do a video podcast, which is fine, but you know, that's the future. And you know, TikTok, like I got a guy doing it, and I think it might help raise awareness of where I'm working

that's all I'm looking for I don't fucking need anything else but it seems very difficult now to just get people who want to see you

to know where you're going to be yeah that's it yeah yeah yeah that's when I started the podcast I was looking at that dude

when I started the fucking podcast I was like I can't dude. When I started the fucking podcast, I was like, I can't do it. I can't be a B-room headliner chasing this thing. I can't do it. I'd rather be dead, and I'm not set up to do anything else. But so you were, because I remember when, because I used to open for Mencia back in the day, and I remember one of, I think his second special, it was in a clump, and you were one of the other guys. It was you, Mencia, and also Janine, I think his second special, it was in a clump, and you were one of the other guys. Yeah. It was you, Mencia, and also Janine, I think.

Oh, that was for the comedy. That was the HBO half hour. Yeah, in San Francisco. In 95. Yeah. So that's when I was opening for Mencia back then, right? And I remember seeing you going, oh, that guy's so great, right? So what I'm saying is that I don't know.

And then I remember seeing you in the movie Almost Famous. And then after that, I didn't see you until you came to the store many years later. So I don't know what had happened to you. So like six years later, five or six years later, I was just hammering it out. You know, I never stopped doing stand-up. But the bottom line is, no matter how many Conans, no matter what, I just was not manifesting an audience. I couldn't sell tickets.

And ultimately with club work, and I was never good at, at being, you know, like being nice on the road to club owners and shit. Yeah. Like I didn't understand how the business worked. Yeah. But ultimately by the time I started the podcast,

it was like fucking, there was no way I was selling tickets. Yeah. It just wasn't a reality. Yeah. And if you can't do that, you have no, you have nothing. Right. Yeah. As a comic, you have nothing. Yeah. And if you can't do that, you have no... You have nothing.

Right. Yeah. As a comic. You have nothing, yeah. 50 Conans. Yeah. Couldn't sell half a house doing those fucking fallout improv weeks. Yeah.

Fuck. Yeah. But now you have this. Oh, no, I'm not complaining. Why? I will never do an improv, though. Why? Because they never fucking gave me real weeks.

But I guess I couldn't sell tickets Those fucking Tuesday nights You could do it now I don't want to do them I don't want to make them any money Are you being real? Yeah totally You still have those grudges?

Couple I do too I do too Like I'll never play La Jolla Because of one grudge Really? Yeah And so I'll just

Those grudges But that's not healthy. There's only one or two and I don't feel bad about it. It's just like, you know, after, you know, these people,

because I've been doing it longer than you, right? Yeah. And I've been in this business since I was, what, 22 and now I'm 60.

So like 38 years or so. Wow. Since 1988, working professionally. First TV sets, Evening at the Improv, Caroline's Comedy Hour, 1989 and 1992.

Wow. Okay. So I've seen all of these people that are still in this game on either side of the fucking aisle meaning either in front of the camera behind it for that long so i saw all these agencies publicists these managers i saw them all come up right comedy clubs and i can tell you one thing for fucking sure. The improv did nothing for me. Nothing. You know, they'd go like, we love you, we love you, we love you, we love you. And they'd throw me a couple bones. And I'd go down there. I'd go down to fucking Irvine.

Wouldn't sell shit. And I had to deal with that goddamn staff. Like, God, this sucks. I'm like, tell me about it. So, like, ultimately. Or they give you those Tuesday nights with the free tickets. Yeah. Fuck it.

So I just have a resentment in terms of like, they weren't fully supportive, but you know, as I'm talking about with you now, another sober person, maybe I should own my side of it. Maybe I could. Because this is before podcasting, right? Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Okay. So, okay. So, all right. So Yeah. Okay. So, okay. So, all right. So, all right. So, my side of it is I couldn't sell tickets. Yeah. I mean, after Mad TV, right? Yeah.

I could not sell tickets. Yeah. Right? I remember doing a show at Caroline's the last time I played it. Yeah. And I sold 12 tickets, second show on a Saturday. Right? And they still made me do it,

and it was so embarrassing, and I remember Paul Mooney and Chris Rock being there. Like, I could see them in the room going, hurry up, because they had the next show, right? And I just remember going, oh, I'm out of the business.

Yeah. I'm out of the business. So I've had those moments. I had years of that. I know, but my point is that, but it shifted. Yeah, so why not be magnanimous? It changed, right? So just be that guy because that's who you are.

Yeah. Because inevitably, you were always going to be here. Right. No, that's true. And maybe I should shut up. Shut the fuck up, man. You know, because I used to be mad at the guy who used to book Catch in New York, but he eventually gave me carnegie hall because yeah and like i should just let it all go let it go yeah man but you won't no i will i just i don't really love that uh that melrose room to be honest

with you that's a tough room yeah and it was tough before they fixed it yeah whatever they did to it it's the original improv was hard ceilings are very high. It's weird. And the audience sits in this little bucket. And then you got the people out and back. Yeah. So I don't love it. I have a problem with cobs. It's the worst. The new cobs?

I hate it. The old cobs were the second cobs. When I was in San Francisco, that was the second cobs down in the cannery was the best room in the world. And then there apparently was one before that that was good. Yeah. But then when Tom moved it into that fucking old theater there, and then Live Nation took over, that is the worst fucking room in the world. If it's not packed.

Yeah. Good luck. I've had disasters in that room. Really? Yeah, yeah. That's why, I mean, I haven't played San Francisco in a long time, but if I were going to play, I'd play the punchline. Of course.

You know what I mean? I don't care. My agents go, well, you can make so much money in clubs. I don't played San Francisco in a long time, but if I were going to play, I'd play the punchline. Of course. I mean, I don't care. My agents go, well, you can make so much money in clubs. I don't give a fuck. I don't want to struggle. You can just add more shows. You know that whole you can make so much more money thing? Yeah. Like, I didn't plan it, but I'm trying to work out the new set,

and I did Portland Helium. You know, and I can do theaters in Portland, but I just wanted to work out. And I ended up doing six shows. Wow, I love that room. Yeah. And you make good cash. You'll make as much

as a night at the theater. I know, I know. But it's a lot more work and I was pretty tired. Six shows, hour plus. So I opened for Segura a week ago

in Hawaii. Yeah. And God bless him. Yeah. Do you like Tom? Yeah, I love him. I love him, Hawaii. Yeah. And, and I, God bless him. Yeah. Do you like Tom? Yeah, I love him.

I love him, Tom. Yeah. 6,000 seats. Yeah. And I went up there. It was, I had a great set. Yeah.

Is it fun? No. Not for a stadium. No, it's not fun. It's not fun. It's, it's, you can't see,

number one, you can't see anybody. And you gotta pace yourself all different right right and you're kind of floating up there like you're in space

right and I'm grateful I'm so grateful dude Mark I'm so grateful don't get me wrong I'm just saying just technically yeah I'm doing a whole bit about that

yeah yeah yeah about how I'm like I'm not an arena act I have friends who are arena acts yeah yeah yeah and I tell a story about doing an arena

and I go at the end of it I go like you know what I don't love it yeah yeah yeah so everything worked out for me yeah and when I watch doing an arena and I go at the end of it, I go like, you know what? I don't love it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So everything worked out for me? Yeah.

And when I watch my friends, my friends are, I can't believe it. Yeah. I really can't. Yeah. What, doing arenas? Yeah.

It's crazy. It's, because I remember, Sebastian has it on tape. I was there the first time he ever went up. You were? Yeah. I'm on the, I'm like, he waited on me there the first time he ever went up. You were? Yeah.

I'm on the, I'm like. He waited on me at the hotel he used to work at. Like, I remember like, because I remember seeing him at the store. Yeah. Like once or twice. Yeah. And I had a meeting. I don't remember if it was, it wasn't the Four Seasons.

It was another one down in Hollywood. Yeah. Where he was a waiter. Yeah. And he came out and it was that weird moment where I'm like, okay. You know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I didn't want to be, you know?

Yeah. But I remember before he hit. And I remember he was terrible. Yeah. And I remember then like years later, I remember him coming to my, I used to have that apartment on Beachwood and he used to come over and work on auditions and he had two lines. Yeah. And he would not get it.

Yeah. And he just never gave up. But just, I was in Vegas with Andrew a month ago, and I was at the Wynn. With Santino? Yeah, with Santino. And I see one wall. It's like one of those, you know, televised, what do you call it? LED walls?

LED walls. Yeah. It's just his face. Yeah. Right? Yeah. And I'm walking. It's like I'm half a mile this walk.

And it's his whole, like, his face just keeps appearing. Yeah. Right? And it's in my mind. It's like, I just, this walk. And his face just keeps appearing. And it's in my mind. I just can't believe it. I'm happy for him. Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's mind-boggling. I'm happy for most people, to be honest with you.

You are? Yeah. But there's some you're not. Yeah, there's some I'm not because... Well, the arena thing is not to take anything away from anybody, but personally, I don't know who the fuck would go see a comedy show at an arena. Yeah. Like, I do a whole bit on stage right now about how I'm not a casino act, and it's not that I couldn't do it.

Yeah. It's just like, you know, I'm just not that guy. Yeah. And I say, I think even if my fans were in Vegas for some reason, it wouldn't be because they just went to Vegas for fun. They were like, oh, Annie's thing is in Vegas. We got to go. It's whatever. Yeah.

But even if you were my fan and you saw that wall, like Sebastian, it was my face. If you're my biggest fan, you'd be like, I don't know. It seems a little heavy for Vegas, right? Like, you know, isn't he coming by our house? We should just wait. I'm just starting to have a good time. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's just. Like, you know, is he coming by our house? We should just wait. I'm just starting to have a good time. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's just my nature. But you couldn't see Lenny Bruce in a stadium? No, of course not. All that shit's, it's a whole different market. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like there's a big cash grab going on right now. Yeah. Fine.

Fine, yeah. But the thing that, the only thing that does bother me is that whatever system we came up in, you want it to still matter, but I don't know if it still does. I think there is plenty of people that are not good comics, but they've built an audience somehow, and they can sell a lot of tickets. So the integrity of what they do is not great, but the ticket sales are what they are. of what they do is not great, but the ticket sales are what they are. Yeah. And I don't hate those people,

but it's just sad to see a system fall apart. Yeah. The other day, I walked by Dana Gould. Oh, yeah. You like him? Sure. I'm a huge fan. Yeah, he's the best.

I don't know him. Oh, why not? I've never really talked to him. Every time I see him, I get so nervous. Oh, yeah. He's like a genius. And the other day he said hello, Mr. Lee or something, shook my hand. Yeah. I was like, holy fuck. And I watch him, I don't know what, I don't know if he's a stadium act

or what he does numbers wise. No, no, no, he's like a genius. He's like a prodigy. But when I watch him, I go, dude, I saw, when I was not in high school, but in my early 20s, I had Showtime. And I saw one of his early specials. And I saw a man, a kid, sweating and talking about pain on stage as a stand-up. And so when I see him now, in my mind, I'm like, why isn't this guy a stadium act?

We've been saying that for decades. Data? Sure. Because I came up around the same time as him. Yeah. I remember seeing him on stage when he was probably 20. Yeah. Before he moved to San Francisco.

Wow. And he was always sort of like that guy. And I used to ask myself that all the time. How is this guy not the biggest comedian in the country? I mean, I don't know about stadiums, but because we came up at the same time even like the biggest club act yeah why isn't this guy the most important comic ever you believe that yes i believe that too yeah i look at him like and i watch clips of him i go oh my god but now we're kind of older guys and like i can see the machine working the same with maria bam but the truth of the matter is it's like

you know they're not for everybody and this is the other problem I have with the tribalizing of comedy where you get a bunch of meatheads that are like fuck you that's not comedy he's selling out stadiums you're not funny all right so there's this judging of comics in a are they doing that in a sports are they doing that yes yes a sports-like fashion. Are they doing that? Yes. Yes. Okay. If you rail any criticism of YouTube comics, Matt Rife or anybody,

Yeah, yeah, yeah. the lesions of meatheads who call themselves comedy fans based on the competitive nature of what's been established by the Austin School, Yeah.

that you... What happens is, Wow. you know, you get this sports-like attitude. Uh-huh. It's like, you get this sports-like attitude. It's like, you can't sell that many tickets. You're not as funny.

This deciding tone of what is and isn't funny is such bullshit because the best comics, the most interesting people, almost no one knows. Yeah, you're right. And it's just the way it is. As a comic, I can see it. I know it. Yeah. You're right.

I think you're right. But I don't know why. Because they're challenging. Yeah. I mean, the people that are hugely successful, they're not that provocative. And when they are provocative, they can't shut up about it. And it's not even real. Like, I don't want to get canceled.

You won't. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You fucking hack. Yeah. I remember seeing, I don't want to get canceled you won't yeah yeah yeah you fucking hack yeah i remember seeing i don't want to say his name okay but i saw a guy a friend of mine yeah and he you know after a set he's in a stadium and he tells everyone to pull out a lighter or fucking you know i mean yeah yeah sure and he's just like not like he's kind of like on stage like oh for the picture yeah like a photo yeah's kind of like on stage like almost like Jesus oh for the picture yeah

like a photo yeah right and everyone's standing yeah I mean almost worshipping him yeah right behind him

yeah behind him and I vomited on my phone I literally had a reaction to it wow I'm like what are you fucking doing yeah

that's insane well this is marketing so it's like if the brand and the marketing and the sort of you you know, the job of self-promotion is the art. Yeah. Then I guess that's where we're at.

Yeah. Wow, that guy's amazing at promoting himself. Yeah. Look at all the people he's brought in. Can I make an argument, though? Because me and Andrew went on the road. And also, like, they laugh. They laugh. Yeah, me and Andrew went on the road. And also, like, they laugh. They laugh.

Yeah, me and Andrew went on the road together promoting Bad Friends. And I like Andrew. Right? Yeah, he's funny. And we did 5,000 seat things. That's good. I mean, is that... But where else...

Should we just play clubs? I mean, what's the other... No, no. We're just talking about what we enjoy and what's comfortable or where things happen. And whether or not you and I love doing smaller rooms because we're insecure or because it's actually better. I don't know. I love it. Me too.

Do you know why? I love looking at their faces. Yeah. And I like, I just like being, not touch them, but being that, because you, it's an energetic energy exchange. Definitely. But like 5,000 for you and Andrew, I mean, you guys earn that and you both have fans,

and you have this relationship with your fans, and they're excited to see you. And it's like, neither one of you guys cut any corners. Right. We didn't. No. No, you're right. We didn't. Yeah, so it's not like- I think you too.

I've been in it since- Dude, you guys paid your dues. Yeah, all right. But also, but it's a whole different thing, and it's so exciting that people want to come hang out just to watch you guys talk. Yeah, all right. But also, but it's a whole different thing, and it's so exciting that people want to come hang out just to watch, you know, you guys talk. Yeah, yeah. You're right.

You're right. And I just like, I like meeting them. Yeah. We do a meet and greet. It's fun. You do? You charge for it? The meet and greet?

Why? Why do you ask? I'm curious about. Yeah, not a lot. But it's a VIP ticket, right? Yeah, like a hundred. I'm not judging. Like a hundred. Okay, I'm not judging. You can't But it's a VIP ticket right? Yeah like a hundred I'm not judging Like a hundred

Okay I'm not judging You can't meet everybody For free What the fuck you talking about? I didn't even say this See this is Where you and I get into problems You decided

You're right You're right You're right That was me dude Oh you That was totally me I'm sorry my bad That was me

You and I get into these pockets Well yeah Where you just assume that I say one word And you're like, you can't just tell me that my family. I know, because 12 years ago, you weren't like this. I didn't, but you, I thought you probably assumed a lot of things about me. You're right. I think I'm doing that. Yeah, I did the same thing. You're right.

You're right. Yeah. So I watched the movie. Oh, wait, wait. Esther's movie. We have to talk about that. We don't have to, but we will. I have to.

I have to. Yeah. That's why I'm here. But I got to pull out this thing that they sent me. Talking Points. Rockstore June will open exclusively in select theaters February 23rd, 2023. Yeah. And it's so funny.

Bill and Al over there, it's like they're running a studio system for comics. Yeah. Everyone in the movie is a comic. I think it's kind of great. Yeah. You know? Like Bill's in it for a minute. Al's in it for a minute.

Matt Walsh, I saw Matt Walsh. Steph Tolev's in it. Yeah. You're in it. Obviously, Esther's the lead. Trevor Wallace has a little thing in there. Which one's he? You know Trevor Wallace?

Do I? Well, he's a comic, very young guy. Is he? He works at the counter at the press. Some founders in it, Nick Rutherford, just people that... Some guys I don't know. Yeah, yeah, side people.

But a lot of people, Haley Joel Osment said that. Yeah, he's great. Yeah. The funny thing is about Esther and even her show with Benji, what was that one called? Do you remember her name of her TV show?

I don't remember. I did it. I forget. But there's a tone that the, I guess it's sort of a millennial tone that she does that is kind of like, it's like over the top in a kind of an affect. Yeah. And it kind of really works in the movie, though. Did you really like it? Yeah.

Really? Yeah, I didn't know if I would. Oh, right, right. And the reason I liked it is because she's doing a thing. Yeah. She's not a bad actress. This is a character she's doing. And it's stilted.

But it's like it's sort of detached from reality. And I think what that says about her generation is true. Yeah, yeah. So it's almost a take on that. Yeah. So, yeah, because of that, I did like it. Yeah, it was a challenging part for me, my part, because there was nothing funny in it. But you were sweet.

Yeah, I was sweet and straight. It was hard. Yeah? Yeah, because usually it's like sometimes when I'm in movies and stuff, I can go here. I can do a thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right? But this one was challenging.

And the reason why I liked it is because I had to take, they would say, tone it down, tone it down. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And be real and listen. And so it was interesting. But I really liked my part in it. No, I thought that was great. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You were like the voice of sanity.

Yeah, sanity. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you definitely showed up with the emotions. And it was good. like my part no i thought that was great you were like the voice of sanity yeah sanity and yeah yeah and uh and you were and you definitely showed up with the emotions and it was good because there wasn't a lot of that in the movie i mean you were the guy yeah but here's what i like about it too is i think that this could be a template of how we do smaller movies from now on. Uh-huh. I mean, if you look at the cast. She wrote it, right? Yeah, but it's like Nick, Goosen, and Bertolino, and Geordi, and all these people that are involved in it.

Yeah. We've all known each other for years. We're all friends. Yeah. And it's like, it's not about money, really. You know what I mean? It's about, you know, making something with a bunch of, that's what it felt like.

Yeah. Making something with your friends. Yeah, it felt like. Yeah. Making something with your friends. Yeah, it felt like, like, like all things comedy is now like

this weird, interesting studio system for comedians. Yeah. Like, the same with Bill's movie. They did Bill's movie and they're doing specials

and everything. Yeah, yeah. And I, you know, I love them and it's also, you know,

I had some hard times last year, I don't want to talk about it but they really were they really brought i left them tiger belly left all things comedy yeah and then they brought me back and i really appreciate them i i love them the one you do with andrew or the other one tiger belly yeah my other one yeah yeah you're back with him? Yeah, man. Okay. Yeah, yeah. I'm back with him. Yeah.

And I should have never left. Okay. Yeah. But it all worked out. It all worked out, but I love all those guys, and I think people should watch it because it's like, I don't know. I think it's a new. Yeah, it's a cute movie.

It's funny. She's funny. You're good. Thank you. And it's odd, but it's tight. Yeah. It's not like nothing's funny. You're good. Thank you. And it's odd, but it's tight. You know, it's not like nothing's undecided. Everything's intentional. And it's heightened to make it funny.

Like, so I thought it was fun to watch it. And I know all you guys. Yeah. I'm not being diplomatic. I know. I'm just, I know. I'm not humoring you. There's one thing that happened that they said not to talk about.

What? And I can't talk about it. But I want to. It's weird. Okay. Well, can I just say, I don't think they'll care. Yeah. Just real quick, okay? Because I know we're at the end, right? Yeah. Alright. So, the first day was devastating for me.

Because I memorized Yeah. I memorized a completely different I memorized Yeah. I memorized a completely different scene. Yeah. And then when I showed up it was an even crazier scene of a lot of dialogue.

They switched the schedule? Yeah. No, I fucked up. Oh, okay. And I showed up and it was chaos. Oh, really?

Me and Nick screaming at each other and stuff like that. Yeah. He's the director? Yeah, Nick Goosen. Yeah, yeah. It was crazy. It was like, you know, like, the tone, like, when Christian

Bale went crazy. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was that kind of tone. But it was the first day. It was the first day. You were having your own issues. Yeah, but then the weekend we talked. Yeah. And then the next, it went well for the rest of the thing. Yeah, yeah. I know I just said that. I don't know. No, because like, it happens. Yeah, yeah. You know, you get it all in your head. It's the first day of shooting.

You want to show up for it. But don't you realize, though, after a certain point with shooting TV and movies that, you know, if you show up and things are changed, that you just got to be like, oh, just give me a half hour. Yeah. And let me focus on this. It's so funny. It's like I thought that I didn't have a voice as an actor. Yeah.

But now it's like, no, I'm not doing that right now. Just give me a second. Yeah. But now it's like, no, I'm not doing that right. No, just give me a second. Yeah. You're right. Yeah. Or like, you know, before like for 20 years,

I never used to even talk to the director or the producer or other actors. Yeah. But now it's like I, when I'm on a set, I go right up to them and go, or let's, let's go through the lines.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. What do you want? How about this? Who's going to run these with me? yeah, yeah,

yeah, yeah. Anyway, thanks for having me on. I really appreciate it. I wish I could come back, not run these with me? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, thanks for having me on. I really appreciate it. I wish I could come back another 11 years from now. Okay, yeah, anytime you want. Yeah, this is fun.

Have me back on yours. I'd love it. Maybe I can show you how to do some other thing that you should know how to do. Yeah, I have so many things. How do you think today went? Great. Okay, good. That was me and Bobby.

That's how me and Bobby do it. The movie he's in, Drugstore June, with Esther Povitsky, comes out February 23rd. You can also check out his podcasts, Tiger Belly and Bad Friends. Hang out a minute, people. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer.

I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. It's a night for the whole family. Be a part of Kids Night when the Toronto Rock take on the Colorado Mammoth at a special

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he agreed. In fact, as you'll hear, the very last thing he says kind of leads you to the impression that he kind of just had to get this off his chest. So here you go. You can hear Mark talking about something that was kind of intense and upsetting and it had just happened. But now it's OK for you, Full Marin subscribers, to hear it and kind of know what Mark was going through at that time. Full Marin subscribers get new producer cuts every month. Sign up by going to the link in the episode description or go to WTF pod.com and click on WTF plus. I kind of,

this is some, this pretty lazy guitar, but it's nice. It's nice. Thank you. Boomer lives. Monkey in La Fonda. Cat angels everywhere.