WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1509 - Laurie Kilmartin

Episode Date: February 5, 2024

Laurie Kilmartin can make comedy out of the darkest situations in her life, from her father’s hospice care to her mother dying of Covid to being targeted by Fox News and the right wing for making an abortion joke. The latter became the foundation for her latest special, Cis Woke Grief Slut, and Laurie talks with Marc about how comedy can survive information bubbles and the lack of a shared national dialogue. They also talk about getting to a point in their lives where it’s time to let things go. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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All right, let's do this. How are you? fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fuck nicks what's happening i'm mark maron this is my podcast welcome to it i imagine most of you have been here before uh but if you're new welcome i don't know if you listened but i reposted my wayne kramer episode the amazing wayne Kramer passed away a couple days ago, one of the great guitar players, a very important guitar player and a very important band who had thoroughly lived all nine of his lives. What an amazing guy that guy was. He spent time in prison, did a lot of charity work for the prisons. And if you really think about it, the MC5, that was really the beginning of it.

That was the beginning of what became American kind of punk rock music. With no MC5, there's no Iggy Pop. And on through New York in the 70s and everything else. I just really love that guy. And I saw the MC5 on their last tour. I can't remember the guy who was singing, but it was really something. It's a really amazing thing. I'm not a great guitar player. And it's an interesting thing what determines whether someone is great at anything. And a lot of times it's not about virtuosity. It's a weird thing I noticed as I get older that it's more about communicating your particular emotions, feelings, intent, voice, anything, whatever instrument you play. or look at some of the greatest artists or any of it,

that it's really about finding your voice, your sound, whatever it is that you lock into to communicate your truth is what makes somebody great, is what makes somebody a brilliant artist or a genius artist. Sometimes it's only three chords. Sometimes it's only a few nights. Sometimes it's only one style of painting. Sometimes it's only one book. Sometimes it's only a couple of movies. You start to realize back in the day before the word content was even thought of as a delivery device of quote-unquote self-expression, that there are people who maybe did one amazing novel, but it is so amazing, so transcendent or singular that that was really enough. I mean, I can't speak to the lives that some artists live if they've only

done one thing and they never quite were able to do another thing again. But what they left was amazing. And whether or not people know that or not, or whether or not as generations pass, they understand or contextualize or even listen or read or look at or feel what that artist put out there, it might get lost entirely. what that artist put out there. It might get lost entirely, but that doesn't diminish its importance just because time moves on. Because something truly horrendous is happening in a lot of ways in terms of art and expression, that it really is about numbers. It's about clicks. It's about the draw. It seems that the idea of creativity in terms of what success means or what winning means is how much money comes in, how many clicks you get. It's really about the size.

It's really about capitalism. It's really about everything that in some ways true art was working outside of. And I don't know what happens to all the marginal geniuses out in the world anymore. I don't know what happens. Sometimes they get appreciated later or sometimes they just become a piece of a bigger puzzle that some people appreciate and some people don't know until someone says, hey, go listen to that. Go listen to MC5 kick out the jams.

Go put it into context. And then again, most people may never even get that context. It's a very strange thing as AI and technology and the facility and ability for individuals to operate in different delivery systems and work their asses off to constantly sort of infuse themselves into the cultural dialogue or try to, what gets lost is some essence of truth and some essence of real expression that is sometimes so simple and sometimes so singular and sometimes very fleeting. It's not about how many you can get up there, how many you can shoot, how many you can do, whatever it is, it was not about that. It was about your persistence and your need to express yourself in a pure way that connects with at least a few people. It's not about the numbers, man. Anyway, welcome to the show, RIP Wayne Kramer. Today on the show, I talked to Lori

Kilmartin, who has been on the show before. She was on an episode, a full episode, 10 years ago, episode 472 from February 2014. She's been doing standup since 1987. She was a writer for Conan for years. She's written bestselling books and she has a new special, for Conan for years. She's written bestselling books and she has a new special, Cis Woke Grief Slut. Very funny, always very funny, great joke writer, intense person. And oddly, I knew her up here where I am now in San Francisco. I first met Lori, she started up here and we sort of came up together in that period of my life. I am in San Francisco. That's why it sounds the way it does.

And I have very mixed feelings about this place, not in an intellectual way. I literally feel mixed feelings when I'm up here. I don't know. I've been reflecting a lot on these different periods of my life because I start to realize as time goes on, even though I'm talking to a lot of people that have fairly kind of, not, I don't want to sound condescending, but some people have structure in their lives that they really hold on to, and they've chosen a certain path for themselves that enables them to have a certain amount of security and sense of family and job regularity and all those things that sort of justify a relatively comfortable existence, that's what they're going for. They want to be happy enough. They want to do enough of what they like to do. And they want to feel a certain amount of connection and emotional love and support from whatever family they're building. I mean,

there's just a way of life and it's not necessarily status quo. It's just, it's completely understandable, but it's also not a life I ever lived in my life. But as I get older and as I do more stage work, I start to really think about what is my life? You spend your time as a comic talking to a general audience. And if you really start to think about the people that you're talking to, yeah, we have emotional connection. We have similarities. If you're a creative person, an angry person, a hypersensitive person, a selfish person, whatever it is that connects people to me and my audience, I connect with people. But I do find that when I really think about it, my life is bizarre.

And it always has been. There's been several cities that I've lived in, several periods of drug use and not drug use, several periods of relationships with people, several hundred road gigs. It's a strange thing, the reality of the life of a comic or of an artist where you really are outside of the norm. And then you have to seek the broader spectrum of people to be your audience and to relate. And I don't think I've ever aspired to saying like, well, here's a life that everyone can relate to. I've had to figure out how to do my comedy in a way, well, this is what I think. Because I know most of you are not going to necessarily relate to my life, maybe in terms of relationship, food issues, drugs, trauma, but it's not, I can't, you know,

I don't have the kids. I don't have the wife. I don't have the job. I don't have a sort of consistency of emotion, but I'm starting to realize I fucking, I lived a life, I'll tell you that, and it keeps going. Portland, Maine, I'm at the State Theater on Thursday, March 7th. Medford, Massachusetts at the Chevalier Theater on Friday, March 8th. Providence, Rhode Island at the Strand Theater on Saturday, March 9th. Tarrytown, New York at the Tarrytown music hall on Sunday, March 10th, Atlanta, Georgia. I'm at the Buckhead theater on Friday, March 22nd, Madison, Wisconsin at the Barrymore theater on Wednesday, April 3rd,

Milwaukee, Wisconsin at the Turner hall ballroom on Thursday, April 4th, Chicago at the Vic theater on Friday, April 5th, Minneapolis at the Pantages theater on Saturday, April 6th, Austin, Texas at the Paramount Theater on Thursday, April 18th as part of the Moontower Comedy Festival. You can go to wtfpod.com slash tour for tickets. San Francisco, the drive up here was amazing. I don't know about you, but when I drive, it's weird. I don't listen to anything. Is that weird? I mean, I'll listen to a little music, but sometimes I'll just drive and think. And when I tell people that, they're like, what? And I'm

like, yeah, I don't even think to listen to music. I just drive and think. It's a meditative quality where driving is innate if you've been doing it all your life. So your body is sort of taken care of and your brain can just go. It's almost meditative. But I do a lot of thinking. I'm not saying it's good thinking. I'm not saying they're happy thoughts, but it runs the gamut, which brings me to this show being sponsored by Better Help. Relationships don't have to be easy. Sometimes the best relationships happen when both people put in the work to make them great. Therapy can be a place to work through the challenges you face in all your relationships, whether with friends, work, your significant other, or anyone.

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So I get to San Francisco, and it feels not unlike many of the places I've been in my life where things happened in my development. It feels a bit traumatic. There is this sort of coming back to places that you were before that had some baggage to them. And Part of You goes back to that. I had to do a show at the Castro, last night, the Castro Theater. I've been here several times, obviously, since, but I never felt that they were as good a shows as I could do. And I kind of blame the venues. It was kind of true. I did a show at Symphony Hall many years ago, which was huge. I did a show at the Masonic, which was also huge. But the Castro Theater is this historic, amazing place. Seats

about 1,400. We sold it out. And the entire day, I was feeling like I felt when I lived here. I don't know who I am. What am I doing? Is San Francisco... These people are so far along in their self-discovery. I'm not going to be able to connect i like literally deconstructed my entire sense of craft self uh and i got into this you know strange you know hyper you know insecurity and right up to when i went on stage i was with taylor williamson and i was like fuck and he oh my God, do you still go through this? You can't, why are you doing this? You're weird. You know, like he's like, and I'm like, no, sometimes this is the process, man. And I got out there and it was just, it took a minute to, to get into it. But like, once I was in the groove of, of what I do, it was like, oh my God,

I'm back here doing comedy in a place that had a profound impact on how I do comedy. And, you know, I kind of got in the pocket and it was fucking great. It was fucking great. The Castro Theater is a beautiful venue. It's changing hands. It was the last show that they were going to do before the renovation. And it was one of those situations where the guys really excited about the renovation. It was always a movie theater.

It was a silent theater that became a sound theater. And he showed me the screen behind the screen for the original silent theater that they eventually took out. And then they punched holes into the walls behind the original screen to put the giant speakers in for the sound movie, for the talkies. And they found the old curtain that went over the original proscenium. So they're going to do this amazing renovation.

I know it's a delicate point for people in the city because of the history of the area and of the city, but it might be nice. I found it to be a beautifully haunted old venue, like many of them are. And it felt like the Castro was still, you know, just pumping and vital and still, you know, very gay and very lively and really what it's supposed to be. It wasn't daytime, but it was nice to be back there.

I hadn't been in that theater since I saw movies there when I lived here in the 90s. So all in all, pretty good. Pretty good trip. And my foot, I was hobbling around with my boot. I'll tell you, man, this boot business with the broken foot, it's playing on me. I'm feeling a little sedentary. Last week, I did exercise. But here's the one thing I didn't really realize and I should have is that, wow, after a week with a sock on in a boot without taking it off, there's a bit of a stank. Like I thought it started to smell like my foot was gangrenous. So I had to just bite the bullet almost literally and carefully take the boot off, carefully unroll my sock, carefully put a new sock

on. Just, I guess it's sock, carefully put a new sock on. I guess it's vanity, but you don't want to be places where you're just emitting this horrendous stench from your bad foot. I think I pulled it off. I don't think I fucked with anything. When you love somebody, you protect them in the best ways you can. And SimpliSafe Home Security is the brand we've been recommending for eight years to protect your home and everyone in it. You get 24-7 professional monitoring for fast emergency response, and it's less than a dollar a day. It's got everything you need for whole home protection, HD cameras for indoors and outdoors, advanced motion sensors and entry sensors to protect doors, windows, and rooms, and a collection of hazard sensors

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So, Lori Kilmartin, I love her. I've worked with her on and off for years. She was always there at Conan. She's opened for me before. She's a great comic. Her new special is called Cis Woke Grief Slut, which you can buy or rent now on digital platforms like Apple, Amazon, and YouTube.

Go to lorikilmartin.com for links. And this is me talking to my old friend, Lori. You can get anything you need with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get an ice rink on Uber Eats, but iced tea and ice cream. Yes, we can deliver that. Uber Eats. Get almost, almost anything. Order now. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode

where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative.

Most of the stuff that was in that garage is upstairs in my sort of office room. Mm-hmm. In the house. Mm-hmm. All the books and all that shit. Yeah. I just, when I got to this place, I'm like, do I want to do that? Do I want to put all that back out here?

It seemed organic in the other place. Right. So now I just have random shit from the old house. So it's without context, but the desk looks similar. Yes, it does. Yeah. But what do you do with all that stuff of a lifetime? Throw it away. I guess so.

You've gone through enough death of people. What did you do with it? It's more like my parents' stuff and things that mean something to you. But like career stuff. Like I guess I have a lot of laminates from festivals that I keep around a teddy bear from my childhood. There's not a ton of stuff. But you have tons of cool memories from just this podcast. Sure.

And I have all those laminates too. Like hundreds of them. Yeah. And they're hanging up there. Yeah. And they're hanging there, up there. Yeah. And they become, what I noticed in the old garage is it started to look like an unattended roadside museum. Where, you know, there's just cobwebs happening and shit. People will come by, talk to you for an hour, then leave. Right.

That's right. But all the artifacts were just getting dusty and weird. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And when I got them all out and I cleaned them up, I mean, I still like looking at them, but I wonder when that shit loses meaning. I mean, I'm 60 and there's part of me that's sort of like, is it time to just throw this shit out? Right. But it will have meaning to other people that love your podcast. I guess so. It will.

It will have meaning. So what are you saying? Maybe get the Smithsonian to step in? Yes. Sotheby's have a WTF auction? Come on. Well, I've talked about my, you know, because there are people that do this, you know, where the papers of somebody will get, you know, like will be taken up by a college or a library or somebody catalogs all this shit. Yeah.

And I've talked about it before, but people have stepped up. I'm an archivist. I'll do it. And I'm like, I don't know, man. Wow. I was up in this attic. There's an attic up in this garage looking at my old poetry and shit. I'm like, does anyone need that?

No one needs it, but somebody wants it. I don't know, man. And then I, because that guy Fine Arts is doing a doc on me. Yeah. And we're going through stuff. I'm like, I don't need anyone to see this. Really? But I mean, but what I found, though, is that, you know, when Lynn passed away, it was like, and she was, you know, my age. So there, I knew all this stuff.

I could tell this stuff. She kept much of the same stuff that I kept. Yeah. Writings, papers, bits and pieces. And there was boxes and boxes of it. And it was during COVID. Yeah. And it was like, well, who's going to do this?

What's going to happen to this? Right, right, right. And I didn't have enough history with her to really make any decisions around that. So friends came down. And a lot of it just gets thrown away. Yeah, right, right, right. And because no one actually really wants it. Yeah, right. I mean, some of it, you know, the things that people wanted, they took. But then there's other stuff. Yeah. I mean, with my parents, neither of them like were journal writers, which probably harmed my childhood. But,

Either of them like were journal writers, which probably harmed my childhood. But, you know, because they know reflection. Right. But they didn't leave a bunch of stuff like that. Like, I know my kid is just going to have piles, piles of me notebooks of me complaining about various bookers of the day. Right. But does he give a shit? I hope he doesn't. I mean, you have to.

I don't know who even though we have these legacies or that we think that people want them. But, I mean, have you ever looked at that kind of shit? I mean, I have a few things of Lin's and I'm like, I'm not going to go through it. Not because I don't care. It still doesn't feel correct. Well, I mean, there are whole presidential libraries that exist that people never go to. And these people were the presidents. Exactly.

Who the fuck is going to those and for what reason? I think when people do research, then it becomes something. But I would imagine most people could just do research online, but there are some people that do the real shit. Yeah. And they go to the sort of look at the collection or the estate or the stuff of a president or anybody. Do you have Marc Maron's poetry from high school, some of the original stuff?

Have you, you worked Dr. Grin's in Grand Rapids, right? I don't think I did. Oh, it's right next to the, it's right near the Jerry Ford Museum or the library. And I went. And it's pretty awesome. He and Betty Ford in their youth were among the most attractive people I've ever seen. Pretty hot? Yes.

Yeah. And what was, why was it awesome? Because it actually put him into a context that you could never really see him in when we were young or he was alive. Yeah, he was just a Chevy Chase joke to me. And I was like, oh, he was the most powerful man in the world for about a year and a half

or two years maybe, right? Oh, he didn't make the second term? That was it? No, no, no, no. That's when Carter took him down, right? No kidding. So he filled in for Nixon and didn't even go. He couldn't pull off.

Nope. I didn't remember. Wow. But he's still got a library. A full library. And Betty Ford has a drug center. I imagine in the big picture, that's done much more good than the Jerry Ford library. Her legacy is, I think, more secure or important than his.

Where the hell did I play in Grand Rapids? Some church-ish looking place. They have a theater. It's a bigger venue. Is it downtown? It's probably right next to Dr. Grin's. Right. It's a folk.

It was big with folk music back in the day. I think it was an old church. Oh, okay. It was kind of an odd room. Yeah. Isn't the DeVos family from Grand Rapids? Yeah, they are. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, she's all over thatos family from Grand Rapids? Yeah, they are. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She's all over that town. And that's the Amway. Is that Amway? And then her brother is Eric Prince. He's like a mercenary. Oh, the Blackwater?

Halliburton. Yeah, that guy. Yeah, yeah. Blackwater. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that's the guy. Yeah. It's just a multi-pronged evil family.

Sure. And they are proud to be involved. Yeah. That's their business. Yeah. It's a very odd thing to realize, and I've had this realization lately, and I think you probably have too because I see it in some of your material that no matter how we judge these people, the other side or whatever it may be. Most of them believe it. So it's not like you can just educate them and be like, you guys are being dumb and evil.

They're like, no, you don't get it. We believe this. Like all the abortion material you do, it's not going to be absorbed by people who are anti-abortion because they think they're doing something godly and righteous. Sure. I mean, if I if I believed a fetus had the same value as a human life, I would I would act that way, too. I'm sure.

But we don't. But they're they're also safe in their little their place with their people and they have a home. And why would they leave it when everyone when all their Facebook friends are telling them you're great, you're awesome. And they might win. Yeah. I mean, they've had some great wins. Yeah. And it's disturbing.

But I for some reason, I maybe it's just growing up that I realize, like, you know, this is the way the world works. These monsters, fascists or people that are driven by religion or nationalism, a lot of times they win. And in most countries in the world, they kind of have won. And it's not because they're – it bothers me that I used to believe that like, well, I just – there's got to be a way to sort of bridge the gap. And there isn't. Right. There isn't. There's no teaching them.

Yeah. Because they think we're monsters. Yeah. And I understand their – I'm empathetic to their position. That's the wonder is like it just it's a push pull, push pull. And you you would think like after World War Two, you know, we're done with fascism. Right. Like, no, you would think. I don't know. I just thought we had so many wins like with gay rights and abortion rights. It's like, oh, that's settled. None of it's settled. It could all be taken away. And there are people that want to take it away that that think it was unsettled when we thought it was settled. That's right. They don't believe in liberal democracy. Right.

They don't. They what they have. There's a whole spectrum of autocratic and nationalistic beliefs. And there's a whole spectrum of autocratic and nationalistic beliefs. But that's why we had to defeat fascism. Yeah. And why it was a long war. Because a lot of people are like, we want it. Yeah. And it's hard to fathom that.

Yeah. But they want it. It's like they think that what we believe is too permissive. And they want rules. And they want control. It feels kind of like when we were studying World War II, it almost felt like a switch that was flipped off, right? Like, oh, they got really fascist and crazy for a little bit. And now it's, you know, they're cool. West Germany, whatever, you know, they're our greatest ally in democracy.

They loved it. Starting to thrive, trying to thrive. But it's obviously a switch that can be flicked back on pretty easily, too. It was a long shot. It's just an undercurrent in a lot of people. I think democracy was a long shot. I mean, to maintain it? Right.

Because it requires tolerance. Now that's fucking gone. So now what? Now you just double down on whatever you think and fuck you. There's no kind of moral precedence that people feel like they have to honor. That's a big, and I guess we're not really talking about stand-up here. But we are to a certain degree. Sure.

Because, you know, you're, I mean, I really like the new special. It's great. Oh, thanks. It's very funny. Good jokes, powerful, dark, good punchers. Yeah. I try to throw a few good punchers in there, Mark. No, you always do.

But I mean, I've noticed that there's not a lot of pushback from the side of what's considered woke. You know, I make fun of anti-woke comics. Yeah. But ultimately, we don't get the same attention. No. Because there's no organized, hackneyed, ideological point of view that we're all abiding by, which is what they do. And it wouldn't be fun to be a part of.

Oh, no, of course not. But I find that lately, I talked to Novak, Jacqueline Novak the other day. I just listened to that one yesterday. Oh, yeah? Yeah. It was great. And I'm talking to you

and I talked to a few other comics. There are comics who don't consider that they're not presenting themselves as woke, but we just do aggressive shit. Yeah. Some people do aggressive shit. Yeah. And that, like you do. I feel like I would be called that, so I'll just do it myself. Right.

Yeah. I mean, we can call ourselves that. do it myself. Right. Yeah. I mean, we can call ourselves that. But the truth of the matter is, is that your comedy or Novak's comedy are pushing more boundaries and more taking more risks than any sort of any woke asshole. So this is actually the reaction to it.

Just good, solid, dirty, dark shit. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. I mean, that's what comedy is. It's weird to talk about material instead of just doing material. Yeah. You know, like when a bunch of comics start talking about trans women and it's the same premise.

Totally. And it's the same point of view. And good comics. And you're like, why are you all – are you all going to a meeting? They are. And coming up with this idea. Maybe that's what podcasts are in a way. But I think it's the information bubbles. I mean, it's who's prioritizing that information.

Right. And those, yeah, there's a certain worldview situation going on among podcasters and some news outlets where that's what's being talked about every day from one point of view and it's it's but why is it even being talked about every day it's like it that's not you it's not anyone in your family it's not your business why are you why are you into it and why you why are you all into it the same way that's the other thing yes i mean i i would i would never have even talked about trans women, but I was like, what is happening? Does no one else have any other point of view? Is there a point of view where they can exist?

It's great. We're allies. Let's hold hands and go for it. Where is that? So that's what I wanted. Just fucking relax. Yes. And be tolerant, for God's sake.

It's not the end of the world. Sorry, Gettle. Yes! And be tolerant, for God's sake. It's not the end of the world. Sorry, I got all... But I noticed that. I was at the comedy store, and I saw a comic that we both know, a woman.

And at some point, she goes, well, I guess I got to do my trans stuff now. I'm like, no, you don't. You really don't. You don't. Because there's someone else doing it down the hall. It's not that different. I want to hear from trans comics more than anyone else about what it's like to be trans.

And they don't all have the same point of view, you know? And they don't have as big a microphone. Correct. And also, but there's a lot of that going on. But we've all kind of, we all have our audiences now. There's no broader, you know, we're not all speaking to the same people anymore. Right, right. Which makes it sort of a dumb game. Because it it's no longer there's no kind of collective processing.

Right, right. It's just like, fuck you over here and fuck them over there. It's just sort of sad. Even within like, who was I talking to? Somebody recently about, oh, is that comic historian? Jesse Fox. Oh, yeah. Jesse David Fox.

Yeah. And he was talking about this whole world of LGBTQ comedy that Bowen Yang came out of. And that was sort of an organized or at least a niche kind of movement in New York. And I don't know anything about it. And he turns out that he got real funny, that Bowen Yang. Oh, he's great. He's great. But at the beginning of SNL, I'm like, I don't know who this guy is and he's doing okay.

But now he's like the best thing on there. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's crazy. But there are voices out there. I just don't know where they are and I'm not exposed to them a lot. Yeah, I think they're all over L.A. as well. Sure. Smaller little shows.

I'm not getting out to them. But I'm glad they're out there. But do you ever want to pop in on their shows? Like, you wouldn't have to be announced as Marc Maron. You could just do a spot at Permanent Records outside. I've done that. Yeah. It's fun, right?

It's okay. I mean, they're... You get to see comics you wouldn't see and kind of, you know, they're the ones setting the tone and the audience... The younger comics. Yeah, coming up or, you know, that's where comedy is going to go. So it's good to... Is it? I'm hoping it doesn't go the other way.

It seems like the bullies are kind of shifting the cultural dialogue. It's kind of problematic. Maybe they're bringing their audience into comedy. Right. They're building an audience. I've sort of been a little spoiled

in the sense that I now can play for mostly my audience, which is nice. It's wonderful. It's okay. But I like going to the comedy store where half the people are like, I don't really fucking know this guy. That's the job.

Yeah, yeah. I still hold on to that. You got to do both. I mean, at your level, when you can have that audience that's there ready to accept everything you say, it is good. It's smart for you as a stand-up to keep doing spots where you have to follow people. Of course. Yeah, just keep doing the work.

But sadly, there's part of me that wants to push away the people that just want to hear what I have to say. You want to repel them? Yeah, a little bit. I want to challenge the people that love me. That's what I do. You can't be right. If they love you, they can't be correct. Right, I don't.

What the fuck do they know? Exactly. Yeah, that's been the problem of my life. But have you had to deal with clubs where you're doing jokes and you get vocal or kind of any sort of resistance? I don't, like, get super...

I think, I find if you... You can do, like, quote, like, liberal material without... If you don't mention biden yeah that seems to be the word they hook on to you know what i mean otherwise they're they're like well maybe she she loves abortion but she's also conservative right you know it's just it's still idea-based and they hear it as ideas yeah it's a bigger thing and it's and the word biden or a few maybe other Democratic words are red meat.

And then they completely turn against you. But what exactly happened with the abortion joke? That was just some dumb. It wasn't even a good joke. It was just some dumb little riff. That's the funniest part of this special. It's not the funniest part, but I think it's a very comedian thing where you're like, I wish it was a better joke. Yeah. I have better structured jokes you could get mad over. Not this dumb riff. You're like a structured person.

So you just put out this kind of okay joke. Yeah, and the fact that I have to re-say it when I would rather fix it is really annoying. I just said it on a Sunday night MSNBC show by Amen. It was the weekend that they had leaked the draft of Overturn Row.

Oh, yeah, right, right, right. And it was just this dumb little line. And then it went viral on Right Wing. What was the line? Oh, come on. Don't make me. All right. I hope the leakers are Republican because I'm going to find him, have sex with him, and joyfully abort the fetus.

Sure. That's it. Okay? It's just, it's not a joke. It's a riff, a tiny rifflet. It's just a fuck you. Yeah. And so that little line, I had better jokes that they didn't clip from that.

Yeah. They took that and then that went all over and it got up to. Clickbait. Yeah. Total clickbait. Clickbait. It went on to Mediate, which is this clip site that, you know, everyone grabs and gets mad over. Went all the way up to Sean Hannity's show on Fox News.

Yeah. And then they replayed it. And then Sean Hannity, Lara Trump and Pam Bondi, the former attorney general of Florida. Yeah. Disgust me. Yeah. It was so bizarre. Monsters.

Yeah. Absolutely. Just like just a panel of monsters. Completely. me. It was so bizarre. Monsters. Yeah, absolutely. Just a panel of monsters. Completely, completely. Disgusting me. This is what liberals do. They joyfully, oh God. You know, I get that it wasn't a great joke, so maybe you didn't get it was a joke, but do you really think that I'm going to be doing that?

It seems like a lot of times they don't get their jokes. They don't get that these are jokes. No. Because they don't have the switch in their head that registers what that point of view says as ever being funny. Right. I will say that whoever clipped it out, and I think it was MSNBC and put it on Mediaite, they labeled it guest says instead of comedian says. Right. Which, of course, is going to get people to

get it be angrier i think if they knew that i was a comic and not some you know but there's very the fact that their brains are so um compromised yes that they can't see joke tone right yes yeah they're also unwilling to like they'd rather get all worked up and take things seriously than just say, like, that's not funny. Yeah. Like, I get plenty of people saying, I've never been funny. I'm not funny. I'm like, OK. Yeah.

I can take that. But to sort of register this as some sort of ideological truth. Yeah. It's crazy. It is. It is. And it was a crazy couple days of threats and people finding me. How bad were the threats?

You know, just, I called it siswa grief sled. I think a church got together and just sent me the same email, called me a sled. There was a guy, like I reply to a bunch of people too. Yeah. I will reply to negativity. I can't. I won't. And a guy.

On Twitter? No, he emailed me. A very long email. Through your website? About abortion. Yeah. Yeah. And so I said, I disagree.

And then he said, you seem like you're. Oh, no. He thought he had you on the hook. No, he goes, he came back friendly. He goes, you seem like you're an expert on computers. And all I had done is reply to his email. And I can show you the email. This sounds like I'm making it up.

But he said, I'm getting a lot of ads with gay pornography on my browser and I can't figure out how to get rid of it. And obviously he's looking at gay porn. Yeah. But I said, maybe like a handyman or somebody's accessing your computer. So you might want to check that out.

And he thanked me. And that was it. So another fan converted. Oh, my God. It's so scary for certain older people. Yeah. But I think people can contact you and send you stuff because they don't think you're going to reply. They don't think you're a real person or they think you have a team or something.

Yeah, they do. They always assume that someone else is reading it or that you're not going to reply. Yeah. And I generally don't. But the times I have to things that trigger me. Yeah. I'd say 50-50 people come back on. Oh, man, I'm sorry.

I didn't think you were real. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I get what you're saying. You know, it's just this initial kind of like and then you're like hey man

take it down a notch oh god I didn't know you were going to say anything so it went away though pretty quickly it did after about 4 or 5 days it might bubble up again now everything just sort of does that

if you're lucky it goes crazy for a few days and then it just doesn't matter It might bubble up again now, but, you know. Everything just sort of does that. I know. If you're lucky. Yeah. It just kind of goes crazy for a few days and then it just doesn't matter. Undertow, just gone. Yeah. Well, what's crazy to me is like I was just joking about abortion. I wasn't like I said I had an abortion or I was providing them. Like this is what I got for making just like a dumb little line.

They just want, they just have nothing to talk about. Yeah. It's just, they just make it, you know, they just make hay out of line. They just want, they just have nothing to talk about. Yeah. It's just, they just make it, you know, they just make hay out of everything. Well, sure.

I mean, MSNBC makes a show and then Fox News makes a segment out of that and maybe MSNBC makes a segment out of that and it's just a cycle of segments. And how much, ingesting all this knowledge, I guess it's good to be educated,

but also how much can you do to change things? Well, that's a big question. And holding all of that in you, what's it do to you all day long, you know? Are you asking me? Because I'm trying to figure that out. What have you found for yourself? Well, you know, since I stopped working on Conan, I've been allowed to not pay attention to all the details. And I feel like if I was still working for Conan, still writing monologue jokes, I would understand all the charges that Trump is undergoing in the specific trials because there's so many.

Yeah. And now I'm just kind of, you know, he's a monster. He's guilty. Yeah. I hope the Justice Department, I hope that system works. Yeah. Well, yeah,

if we're going to, we're going to find out. Fingers crossed. That fucking guy's got some pretty, he, he definitely has some, uh, pretty good timing sometimes.

Yeah. Yeah. But you also included that stuff. I mean, I guess I haven't talked to you since, I think I talked to you about when your dad died, right? Yeah.

About that book. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Dubbed people suck. Yeah. Right, right, right. But that book. Yes. Yeah, Deb, people suck. Yeah. Right, right, right. But now, like,

you've changed your tune with your mom. I was totally heartbroken when my dad died. And I was, oh, conflict, I mean, yes, it's my mom, of course.

We had a, she lived with me, she's a Trump supporter, we had a, a lot of arguing. And I guess I thought when I moved her in with me, the proximity, we would fix everything. And we just fought as hard. We went to two sets of therapies together. Really? First one with Dr. Steve. Oh, yeah.

And she walked out after 10 minutes of the first one. And then the second one, it was I went for an hour and she went for an hour and then we met or something. And it didn't really help. But this is interesting because we were talking about the idea of realizing that there's no way to get through. Right. That there is no bridge. that there's no way to get through. Right. That there is no bridge. And this is like, was a lot of it ideological?

I don't even know. It was, yes, I mean, it all stems from that. But it was, you know, mother-daughter stuff, parent-child stuff. And, you know, like me just wishing she would change. And thinking maybe with my dad gone and me being like the primary person around her, I could sort of break her down a little bit. And instead she got more hardened. Like, what were the main issues?

Out of curiosity. Oh, my gosh. Aside from politics? Yeah, like, do you have sisters or brothers? I have a sister, yeah. Yeah, and how does she feel about your mom? Very similar. Yeah.

Well, I mean, it's just standard parent stuff about your mom it's very similar yeah well i mean it's your standard parent stuff yeah it's parent stuff your parents weren't together or they were they were together but like my mom um one time she had stuff happen to her she never went to therapy highly traumatizing things as a child yeah swallowed it and just went on as her generation did. And me just wishing, because maybe things were overlooked in my childhood because that was her nature was to overlook pain, thinking, if you had been in touch with that, you may have recognized it happening to me and maybe it wouldn't have happened as badly as it did. So she couldn't even process her own trauma? No. Unwilling? No, she was very much outside of it.

And I remember we were watching a- Dissociated. Yes, we were watching Hoarders, one of the hoarding shows. Yeah. And something about it, she goes, oh, yeah, a guy molested me when I was four in the bushes in Tennessee. I was like, what? That was brought on by Hoarders? Yeah. four in the bushes in Tennessee. I was like, what? That was brought on by hoarders?

Yeah. And maybe it was in Tennessee. It was something where you're like, oh. Wow. And you're just recalling it now and not crying, no pain, just like, huh. Like it was just an old movie that was playing that had popped up again. And I was like, ah, that like the the way that how she remembered and how she treated it that that horrible event right like oh okay right no that really explains

a lot of of how she you know kind of raised us a little bit you know sure and yeah and also you know that that type of dissociation is you you know, you kind of build some sort of emotional system around that. Yes. Yeah, I mean, I try to talk about this whole world of trauma processing stuff and being able, but I think everybody compartmentalizes it. Of course. Yeah. I guess the real problem is, is if you've compartmentalized it and it's it's just a monster in a room, you know, you know, pounding to get out and ruining everything in the whole building because you're not giving voice to it or you're not. I guess she she was so depressed, but never never so much. She was incapacitated. Joseph's constant lack of joy around us, maybe. But also she has, obviously, a vulnerability to grievance-driven ideology. Yeah.

And that's probably directly related to trauma. Definitely. I just wanted her to cheer up and be lighter in her final years, which was ridiculous because she missed my dad like crazy. And now she's left her home and she's left everything. And she's living in a little room with me, her hostile daughter, and her only ally, her grandson. Her only ally. You liked her? Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, she could be a little nag a bit, which would annoy him. But I think sometimes I'm like, oh, he picked up some antipathy from me, you know, even though I tried to hide it, you know. So when you went to therapy, were you trying to get at that trauma and stuff? I didn't think of it that way. I just wanted us to get along better. But I realized after she died, and you always realize stuff after they're gone, and then you want to talk to them again. It's like, hey, I figured this out.

So let's go back. That there was just like such a heaviness around her. And as a child, you just want them to giggle. You know, have a lightness. And hers had been, you know, it was going before my dad died. And then after he died, you know, it just went away. Yeah. And it was, you don't think it was like chemical depression?

Could be. Yeah. Could be. But definitely depression. Yeah. So now, like, because when I remember during COVID, when she started dying of COVID. Yeah. That it was like, there were like up to the hour updates, it seems.

Yeah. It was such a weird time. And it was, I think at that time, it was the only time somebody, not to like, you know, I might have been one of the first to live tweet the whole thing going down. Someone dying of COVID? As opposed to after they had died and what it was like. Yeah, no, it was important. It was really wild.

Yeah. And so, yeah, once she was taken to the hospital, she was in a nursing rehab center. That's where she got COVID. Deshkirt Hospital. They set up an iPad and we kept, you know, I kept mine on. My sister came down and we had her like on, like mom TV, you know. Yeah. You know, six days straight maybe, you know, except for when we were bumped off.

But then we'd call back and get back on. And we just kept talking to her. You know, it's an iPad, take it around the house, tell her what we're doing. My Aunt Patty,

her sister, called and talked to her for like two hours straight with no response. Which is like my classic, that's an Aunt Patty move. She could talk for two hours straight.

And this was like how, and that was like from her getting COVID to her dying of it. How long was that? It was a week. It was a week. Really? Well, she was old, you know, and she got it. She got the alpha version, I guess, unmitigated version, no vaccine in June of 2020. So it took her out pretty quick.

But she was unconscious the whole time. My sister and I did get to visit her after we lobbied the hospital. We were dressed head to toe in like a beekeeper's outfits. Plastic gloves couldn't touch her. And she kind of raised her body up and looked up and then went back down. So that was the only time she moved the entire time on her own when we were watching her on the iPad. So we knew she knew we were there. I don't know if she knew she had COVID.

I don't know what she knew. She was on morphine. Yeah. And, you know And who knows? I hope she was just seeing visions of my dad and her mom welcoming her to wherever. So at that time, where were we all at culturally with COVID? So the fight was about masks. I think so. I mean, Gavin Newsom, he lightened the mask requirement over Memorial Day weekend. And I think that's when my mom caught it. You know, and rehab centers, it's all part-time workers are all bopping around from place to place. It's, I would rather die on a beach than go to a rehab center.

You mean what for aging? Like a skilled nursing facility. So it's like if you have a broken hip or something. Why was your mom in one of those? She, I had taken her to the hospital the previous week because she was struggling to breathe. And so they just kept her there. They got her back to normal. But when you're old, if you're in bed for a week, you need lessons to learn how to walk again.

So what I should have done is brought her home and had a nurse come in. But I was like, you know, at that time, they're like, well, it's safe. You know, the governor has, you know, modified some of the things we have to do to avoid COVID, masking and stuff like that. So maybe things are a little bit better right now. And it was, you know, of course, they got worse immediately. And did you see that being politicized, what you were doing at that time? I don't remember.

I don't think so. I think we were all just... Freaked out. Yeah, the whole world was freaked out. Yeah, except for the people who thought it was a scam and masks were bullshit. Yeah, that happened pretty quick in Florida. Were you just shocked at the comics that were still doing shows in clubs during that time? I couldn't believe it.

They all got COVID. Yeah, they did. None of them, no comics I know died of it. They all got COVID. Yeah, they did. None of them, no comics I know died of it, though. Do we know it? Remember there was a comedy festival where several comedians got it at the festival and died? Yeah, it was like out of Indiana. No shit.

I can't remember. But we also don't know what kind of brain fog people have. I mean, people have, COVID has a long tail. And you never got it? Not yet. I mean, I do a lot to avoid it. And I could have gotten an asymptomatic case,

but my worry is long COVID. I had a, I don't know, it's been a couple of years, I guess. Maybe February 2022. Oh, so you had, at least you had a vaxxed version of it, right? Yeah, definitely, yeah.

Yeah, I was just tired and a little stuffy. It was a little weird. Yeah. Yeah, and your heart gets a little jacked. Yeah. I mean, I have an aneurysm, so I don't want anything that causes blood clots. Yeah, yeah.

No, well, nobody wants to be sick. I know, but I feel like I have to give an actual medical excuse. Sure. Oh, I get it. Well, there's just some nights, like, knew like at some point at the comedy store that I was going to get COVID. I was just in Paris, Texas. And I'm like, if I survive this weekend, I'm bulletproof.

This is ridiculous. And I did everything I could, but it was just so much coughing in the audience. Oh, really? You heard the coughing? Yeah. I mean, I bring an air purifier on stage when I'm headlining, you know, and I put it right under me. This is Paris, Texas? Yes.

Yeah, yeah. What the fuck is in Paris, Texas? There's a comedy festival. I told you there's a festival everywhere. All right. Yeah. How was that? It was fun. It was fun. Who were the headliners at the Paris comedy festival? It was me and Francisco Ramosamos and then jean pompa but he got covid i guess so um yeah but you know it's it's a rowdy road room and

definitely you know uh probably most people didn't vote the way i voted but uh you know i i kind of like to play with that you know okay yeah it was fine yeah the shows were really fun oh yeah but i but again i put an air purifier right in front of me. I blasted all the way up. My hair is often flying behind me when I perform, but so far so good. It's so funny when I watch your stuff because I do, like, it's an angle on the idea of having to respect your parents or anything. Yeah. For that matter.

Yeah. I like it. Because I, like, I'm doing it, I'm trying to work on this joke now about, you know, because both of my parents are, you know, kind of crapping out a bit. My dad certainly, my mom so much. And the joke is like, you know,

it's weird when you get older and you have family. No one really tells you how much, you know, it's really going to cost to put your parents through dying. Yeah. And I think that's hilarious i did too but uh people like they kind of growing at it but there is that zone of comedy where you you know you're mocking or making fun or making light yeah of your mom's dying yeah you know in very you know ways. Yeah. But, and I think that because of that, because of your structure, people are able to afford you the distance. Do you know what I mean?

Yeah, right, right. Because they know it's a joke. Yeah, a lot of them are almost joke jokes. Which is good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because it's like, one of the things I sort of run into is like, I'm fairly conversational.

That's a joke joke. And there's a couple of tags to it. Yeah. But you got to work them. Like, you know, when you first start doing those jokes, I have to assume the same way you were. Oh, yeah. Where people are like, what? Exactly.

You have to build the sort of the confidence and the groove of the thing. Yeah. And then it starts working. I don't know if it's detachment or what. It is. To me, always the important thing was like this chunk about my dad dying or my mom dying. It has to be equally in weight equal to a joke about a chunk about me going shopping. Right.

As a comic. Right. They are jokes about a thing. Right. And so and the audience has to feel comfortable. They have to know you're not going to start crying and that you're totally comfortable with it. And it can take you years for me to say, especially with my dad, my dad died. Like my, my throat could hardly make the words.

Right. And it took so long to get used to it and then going, well, that's a setup to a joke. And now I'm going to, this chunk's going to happen and the checks are going to drop. People are going to be doing, figuring out their tips while I'm talking about the, one of the worst things that ever happened to me and I have to be okay with right as a comic right and and once you get there then it's there it's like interchangeable lego pieces in your act you know it also opened up it opens up this this portal of possibilities yeah you know like have you know it took me a long time to get that

stuff about Lynn passing yes to work yeah but after I did, I realized I didn't talk about anything. Yeah. Right, right, right. Because now I'm doing a chunk about trauma, about childhood trauma. And I actually tell the audience, I say, okay, I'm going to go into this next piece, but I want you to know I can handle it. That's perfect. Whatever you guys experience is, it's your experience, but I'm okay. I'm okay with what I'm about to do.

That's great. That's great. And it's kind of exciting. Yeah. To talk about that kind of stuff. My son had told me something that happened to him at school. Yeah. And he goes, you can make a joke about it if you want.

And I'm like, whoa. No, that's yours. I'm not going to. That's school. Yeah. And he goes, you can make a joke about it if you want. And I'm like, whoa. No, that's yours. I'm not, that's yours. Right, yeah. It is weird. Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah.

But was it upsetting what he told you? Yeah, it was upsetting. Yeah, yeah. You know, it was something he had to reckon with. Oh, really?

Yeah, but it was like, that was almost the first thing he said to me after he told me. Yeah. And I was like, what am I to you? Am I just a premise-seeking monster that had a child? No, he wanted you to make it easier. Oh. Oh, I didn't think of it like that.

The worst thing is I did think of a joke. And I feel really guilty about it. I think he was looking for you to process it for him. Interesting. I hadn't thought of it like that. I thought he assumed I was a monster. Yeah, he does. He goes on the road with me sometimes.

Yeah, so I mean, he's like, oh, she'll make it funny. Maybe it was a total compliment. Maybe I'll tell on the road with me sometimes. Yeah, so I mean, he's like, oh, she'll make it funny. Oh. Maybe it was a total compliment. Maybe I'll tell him the joke I thought of. How much time has passed? Since he told me, like a year. Oh, yeah, you can definitely do it now. That's plenty of time.

But what is it like with the kid? How old's the kid? My son is 17 right now. That's crazy. It is. It is. It's like Felicia Michaels warned me that the teenagers would be just as time consuming as the other ones and in a different way. And they are because you're constantly like monitoring their emotion,

you know, their, their mood, you know, are you okay? Like you just read about things like teenagers. Oh, interesting. You're like the parents had no idea.

And it's like, am I missing something? Is everything okay? Yeah. And should I be intervening now? And, you know, you quit doing this thing that you love. So should I say something or should I leave it? And I don't know what to do all the time. The possibility for codependent insanity is, it's got to be just crazy.

It is. And because my son was in lockdown for half of seventh grade and all of eighth grade, those were key years that he was at home the entire time. And I think this is probably with a lot of parents. It depends on what age your kids were trapped with you. But like my son, I decked out his room. I'm like, he's on Zoom. It's a nightmare.

I just want him. I don't want him to lose. I want to keep as much education as possible. He's going to lose so much. So, you know, he has like a space shuttle in his bedroom. Yeah. And now he doesn't want to leave. You know, he's totally fine.

And a lot of kids his age, too. Like, they don't hang out together. They just play games together. And they consider that hanging out, but they're not physically in each other's presence. And that makes you nervous? It doesn't make me nervous. It's just interesting. It's just different.

A little sad, in a way. Sad, but then they're okay with it, you know? I guess. I just remember, like, that one of the great things about growing up without all that shit is you'd go out and hang out with a bunch of other kids and do nothing. I know. Like when I was a little kid, you'd just go out in your front yard or on your street with some other kids on the street.

Ride bikes. Just figure out, yeah, ride bikes, figure out how to hurt each other in a competitive way. Yes. Or girls in a backstabby way. But yeah, there was a lot of pain involved. A lot of secret societies that you weren't allowed into unless you ate dog food. That was happening on my street.

You mean guys making you eat dog food or mean girls making you eat dog food? No, mean girls making you eat dog food to get into the group. And then you'd be the only one that ate the dog food? Yes, exactly. I'm sorry you ate the dog food. It wasn't bad. I can, I can't survive as an old lady on cat food, I know, because I did eat dog food to get into the group. Doesn't have much flavor, oddly, does it? It's not that bad. It's just this texture. I got some in my mouth by accident.

Yeah, so I don't know. But your kid's turning out okay? Yeah, he loves animation. He wants to be an animator. So we're looking at art schools. We're looking at two years of community college, because it's cheap, and then two years of art school. I mean, hopefully. I don't know. It feels like there's good places for that here. There's good places everywhere. Oh, really? We have citizenship in Luxembourg,

because of my great-great-grandmother. Get out of here. Yes, and so he could go to school in Europe, but I mean, that's a big jump from the bedroom, the Zoom bedroom. That'd be a good thing, though. It would be a great thing if he did that. Yeah, it would be great to get out. Completely get out.

You got literally grandparented into Luxembourg? Great, great grandparented into Luxembourg. Just one line of your family? Helena Nath-Lorge. Yeah. That's all it takes? That's all it took. They have a generous reclamation process, Luxembourg does.

It is very specific. You have to have had a relative that was born in Luxembourg in the 1800s and died in the U.S. after 1900. So she's the one that lived long enough. If she had died in 1899, we wouldn't have it. Holy shit. I think about countries that I could do that with if it was in 1899, we wouldn't have it. Holy shit. It's like, I think about like countries that I could do that with

if it was available to me, but they're not great. I'm like, I can always go back to Russia. Oh, yeah. I think Poland, I could get into Poland. Poland's not bad.

Is it? No, it's not. They just, they, I think they did. They just got some referendum with their prime minister where they rejected fascism in a way that I was pleasantly surprised. They were kind of drifting towards full fascist, weren't they?

Yeah, I mean, it's not Hungary. So, no, Poland's not bad. You should investigate. I don't think I can. Because Poland gets you into the whole EU. I don't think they offer that. I mean, my grandmother was born in Poland. And did she leave

because of the Holocaust? No, before. But I mean, the pressure? I mean, was she? I don't know. I don't know. I think there's an argument to be made.

Maybe. I could say, yeah. She knew it was coming in 1923. I mean, were things good in 1923? No, they were never good. Yeah, exactly. I mean, it was okay because there were borders that went from Ukraine to Poland.

It was Galicia. I don't even know where that is now, if it's in Poland or Ukraine. Because that border was a little fluid at some point in time, I think. But yeah, the Russians, yeah, it was either that. It's going to be Poland or Russia. Well, if it's Poland, you're good. If you could do it, that would be great. Yeah.

You just have citizenship? That's how the Luxembourg, one of the women that was running it, she's like, you can live in the south of France. Yeah. I'm like, I don't know if I'll do that. Luxembourg itself is very expensive, you know, but I would love to live somewhere in Europe for a year and just do one-nighters as a comic. Really? Yeah. If I could just pay my way, I wouldn't have to make a profit.

But the idea of like, you know, going to a foreign country and doing comedy sometimes is sort of like, oh my God. There's so many English speaking venues and a lot of American comics go there and I don't know, just like a triple run,

but in France and Germany. How amazing would that be? I did that in Scandinavia. Like I did Norway. Yeah. I mean, I did that. How amazing would that be? I did that in Scandinavia. Oh. Like I did Norway. Yeah. I did Amsterdam, Oslo, Stockholm. Where have you performed over there?

In Europe? Yeah. Almost nowhere. Just England. And I took my son to Ireland to throw my dad's ashes. And so I did a set in Dublin because I walked by a comedy club and I just contacted them. But yeah, I mean, once my son graduates, everything, things open back up for me. The borders are slightly closed because I need to be, you know. Yeah, sure. Once you tuck him away into a school, he can get out.

Yeah. Yeah. I've done, yeah, I've done Dublin, England. I've done England. Yeah. You can get out. Yeah. Yeah. I've done, yeah, I've done Dublin, England. I've done England. Yeah. Years ago, I went to Hong Kong and Beijing. Wow. There used to be a guy that booked shows there. Yeah, I remember that.

I remember that. I would be afraid to go to Beijing now. I'd be afraid you wouldn't get out, you know? Yeah, I guess so. I don't know if it was, it was relatively scary. I went with Russ Meneve. It was me and Russ Meneve. He's so funny. He was so funny. I haven't seen him in a long time. I don't know if it was. It was relatively scary. I went with Russ Meneve. It was me and Russ Meneve. He's so funny.

He was so funny. I haven't seen him in a long time. I don't know what he does. I might have seen him at the Broadway a couple, maybe like a year or two ago. We had a very good time. It was very funny. What a one-liner guy. Yeah, yeah.

He's very funny. It was all for expats. But I remember when we were in Beijing, we were there when that spy plane was taken. Oh. It had crashed and they had that spy plane was taken. Oh. Like, it had crashed and they had the spy plane and some of the people and we were told,

you know, you can't bring it up. Yeah. Yeah. And it was intense. That's your first instinct is to bring it up. Sure, sure.

Anybody have family on the, but, no, but I saw the Great Wall and I saw all that shit. Wow. You know, it was kind of cool.

Forbidden City. Yeah. I didn't feel like, oddly, I didn't have great Chinese food there. Like, I went to the original Peking duck place, which was now called the Beijing duck, of course. Okay. Oh, yeah.

Right, right, right. Right, right. So, it was okay. You know, it was a little touristy, I guess. I didn't know the- It's not what you can get in India. I didn't know the hipster place. I'd still kind of like to go to India, but I don't know if I never, I don't ever think-

Ooh. Yeah, it just looks so crazy. I mean, I know, but like once you, I mean, Mumbai or someplace like that, I have, yeah. That would be overwhelming. I want to do shows everywhere. Like I want to, I want it all. I wish I had that spirit. Yeah.

I just want to go. You know what I mean? You don't want to do stand up there? You want to visit? No, the idea of like worrying about doing that spirit. Yeah. I just want to go. You know what I mean? You don't want to just stand up there? You want to visit? No, the idea of like worrying about doing a gig. Yeah. And what it's going to be like in Mumbai. Yeah.

It's too much for me. Because I feel like what I do is specific. Yeah. And that I have, there's a certain amount of emotional investment and understanding that they'll understand me, you know, outside of the jokes. Like I make myself a little crazy. Do you look at the stats of who listens from where and go to those places? No, not really. I know where I can. I'm good for about 800 people in most reasonable sized cities. Right, right, right.

And from, you know, 1,200 to a couple thousand in a few cities. That's the dream. Yeah, that's it. You know, because you can still live a normal life. You know, I can't imagine what Jim Gaffigan's life is in an airport. It must be awful. People coming up to him all the time, right? And you can live a normal life, but you can sell out for people that already like you.

Yeah. That's the comedy dream. My troubled fans. They might see you in the airport and write letters later, write emails to you. But I feel like Gaffigan's fans go right on up to him. Well, yeah, because he's a big, funny guy. Yeah. And he's approachable.

And he seems like it. Yeah. I don't know if he really is. Well, no comic is who they are on stage. That's for sure. Jim, he's definitely a little more intense. He's gotten more himself. That's good. You know, he does more long form stuff intense. He's gotten more himself. That's good.

You know, he does more long form stuff. His last special was pretty dark and pretty funny. No, he's great. I'm just saying, like, I think his fans would not hesitate to approach him. And I think yours would. No, they come up to me. Oh, they do? But they know.

You know what I mean? Right. You know, they understand the thing. Because of how I do it, a lot of them really feel like they know me, and I think they do. Yeah. But most of them are aware that it's one-sided. It's the ones that aren't quite aware of that that becomes a little

tricky. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know? But, I don't know. Are you still doing the podcast? Yeah, I do. Jackie has the Dork Forest, and ours is just called the Jackie and Lori Show. Oh, how's that going? It's just me and Jackie Cation.

We still do it. We find time every Sunday at some point. We're usually logging in onto Zoom from hotels and doing a quick hour. How's she doing? She's doing great. Yeah? Yeah. She's working.

I don't know. I feel like the industry wants both of us out. And we're both like, no, we're here. So you must reckon with us. What industry? Comedy. Everything. Really?

I don't know. That's how it feels. But the weird thing is, is that I don't even see a semblance of an industry anymore. I know. That's true. And it just seems like, you know, some people have cobbled together enough of a following to go work. I know. I know.

And that's it. It is so. How's your draw? All right. No. And that's it. It is so, it's. How's your draw? All right. No, it's not. Well, I mean, it's okay. Hopefully the special will increase it, but it does feel like everyone's booking off of followers.

And I. That's the worst. I don't know. Like with some of the clubs, I'm like, are you doing anything? Do you even email your list? They don't. Do you have to let them know or do we have to do it at all? Well, I think that that is the problem is that do we have to do it at all well i think that that is

the problem is that we do have to do it all yeah and you know for those people who you are not connected that way or don't have that much juice or or whatever it's a real fucking challenge but really the clubs were never that great at it yeah uh, in terms of, maybe you could do morning radio and that might work. Right. I'm not even sure how anybody drew other than

people knew them from television. Yeah. Or, you know, they took out a newspaper ad and they saw it. I guess so,

the newspaper ad. Right. But like morning radio, that was the thing. I don't even know how many people that drew. I don't know either. God damn it.

I remember, like, remember how many times we did Alex Bennett? Oh, my God. For what? Oh, man. No one gave a fuck about that show. By the time I got there, you're just doing it. It's like this weird, you know, there's three comics that are listening to Alex complain about his stomach or something. He was great.

I mean, I remember I was, before I started doing comedy, I was listening to Bennett and I was cleaning houses, you know, and the father. In SF? In Lafayette. Oh, yeah. Cleaning a house in Lafayette. It was a really nice house. And the father of the family was home. Yeah.

And I didn't realize, or he came home, but I used their speakers to jack up Alex Bennett. So I just cleaned all over the house. Sure. It was like a house with speakers everywhere yeah and uh warren thomas was being filthy yeah and uh the dad walked in and i was like oh sorry and i ran to turn it down um warren yeah he was so funny oh my god he was great wow like when did how old were you when you started what year was it? I was 22. I started in 87.

So you were like there. I mean, I got there. When did I get there? Jesus. You came from New York. Yeah. Right, right. You came around the same time.

I felt like Patton in my head. Yeah, and Blaine. You guys all came from the East Coast at the same time. That was like 92-ish. Probably. Dana Gould was already there, right? He came along before, right? Yeah.

So you were coming up in sort of that golden age a little bit. A little bit, yeah. Right? What was still left of it? Like, who was it? Slayton? Kevin Meany? Slayton was head...

Oh, Meany was headlin... Yeah, they were all there. Dana. Yeah, those were the headliners. Sue Murphy. Was DeGeneres... Ellen was not there anymore. Okay.

Sue Murphy. Sue Murphy, yeah. She was such a murderer. Yeah, man. Okay. Sue Murphy. Sue Murphy, yeah. She was such a murderer. Yeah, man. Oh, my God. She killed so hard. Kravitz? Yes.

Was kind of around still? Yeah, he was. Bob Brubin. The Rube. Yeah. That was sort of like just post the heyday. Tom Kenny. Yeah.

Those were all the headliners. Yeah. Greg Proops, of course. Yeah. Was Bobby there? Goldthwait? Yes, he was. Yeah, Goldthwait Tom Kenny. Yeah. Bobby. Those were all the headliners. Yeah. Greg Proops, of course. Yeah. Yeah. Was Bobby there? Goldthwait? Yes, he was.

Yeah. Goldthwait was there. Yeah. That's crazy. That was crazy time. And then they kind of, they, I don't know when they moved. They all, then the whole group left. Moved to LA.

Yeah, to LA. Well, yeah, that's because that's when. Different groups left. Yeah. When we came in, everyone had gone. Like when Blaine and Patton and I arrived. Yeah. There was definitely a deficit.

Yeah, for sure. And everyone had left except for Johnny Steele. And Carlos Alsrocki. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Carlos is down the street from me now. He is? Yeah. He's a very nice guy.

Yeah, he's a great guy. He has two gorgeous daughters. Oh, really? Yeah. These fucking people that end up with normal lives, I don't understand it. I know, it's weird. I couldn't manage it. I mean, I have a semi-normal life, and it's strange to me, you know?

And when my kid was born, I was like, good luck. I did my job. I gave birth to you, and now I'm like, oh. Is it normal, though? Like, you had the kid, and then the marriage broke up. It wasn't a marriage, but it was a relationship. Yeah, and he was a comic. Yes.

So there's nothing normal about it. No, there's nothing normal about it. But he does go to a public school, you know? Other than, like, you're doing a good job as a single mom. We'll see. Fingers crossed. Sounds like you are. I love him.

He's my favorite person. What's his relationship with his father? Good? I think it's good. Oh, yeah? Yeah. I probably shouldn't get too much into any weeds on that. Yeah.

Well, good. All right. Well, it was good talking to you. Yeah. Thanks for having me back. What's the special on? It's called Siswa Grief Slut. It's on's good talking to you. Yeah. Thanks for having me back. What is this special on? It's called Cis Woke Grief Slut. It's on Apple TV, Amazon Prime.

It's a comedy dynamic, so they push it out. I remember doing a promo for Samsung TV+. It's probably on your microwave if you have. I don't know. It's like there's so many platforms now. Cis what? What's the whole thing? Cis Woke Grief Slut. Oh, I like it.

C-I-S. Yes. As in. Cis Woke Grief Slut. Yeah. I just got. CIS. Yes. As in. CIS woke grief sweat. Yeah. I just got an email that said my TV show, which is hard to find, is running on Viking cruise ships. Someone's like, I'm watching your show on Viking on a boat.

And I'm like, what the fuck? It's like, I did my last special with HBO, which isn't really international. Yeah. Until it gets to Sky TV or whatever their affiliates are. So, like, no one could see it in Europe unless they flew on a certain airline. Like, people are like, oh, what's your special on the flight? Well, you're finally a cruise ship comic. Yes, it took a long time.

And I'm happy to know that I made it. Sure. All right, well, I liked the special. I loved it. Oh, thanks so much. Thanks for watching it. There you go. Lori Kilmartin.

Her special is out now. Cis Woke Greets Slut is on all major video on demand platforms. Hang out for a minute, folks. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed,

how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. It's a night for the whole family.

Be a part of Kids Night when the Toronto Rock take on the Colorado Mammoth at a special 5 p.m. start time on Saturday, March 9th at First Ontario Centre in Hamilton. The first 5,000 fans in attendance will get a Dan Dawson bobblehead courtesy of Backley Construction. Punch your ticket to Kids Night on Saturday, March 9th at 5 p.m. in Rock City at torontorock.com.

Okay, look, you guys, listen. On Thursday, John Oliver is back. The last time he was on was way back in 2012, episode 298. Your mother taught what? Music. Really? Yeah. Like, what did she play, piano?

Yeah, she played piano. She played cello. Do you play piano? No. Well, not really. I played the violin. You played the violin? Yeah. Well, not really. I played the violin. You played the violin? Yeah.

So you were really pulled in two directions, weren't you? Yeah, I was, because I played on all the school sports teams, and I did drama and music as well. So I was the one thing that floated between those two worlds. So I would turn up to rehearsals for things with mud and blood on me yeah and i would turn up to uh you know sporting events

with a violin case imagine which of those was more difficult you can wash the blood off you cannot make that violin case disappear it's too bad that your parents weren't more strict and made you play the violin because then you could have might have been a sports oh fan. Oh, no, they kind of did make me play the violin. And your contempt for that didn't drive you harder into sport? I went as hard into sport as I could. But I had physical, I wasn't good enough. You just weren't good enough. I can't even believe I'm saying that out loud now.

I wasn't good enough. I was never going to make my career as a professional footballer. And exactly what year did you realize that? Probably about three years ago. So it's still raw. It's still fresh. I'm sorry, man. You can listen to that full episode along with all WTF episodes ad-free

by signing up for WTF Plus. Just go to the link in the episode description or go to WTFpod.com and click on WTF episodes ad-free by signing up for WTF Plus. Just go to the link in the episode description or go to WTFpod.com and click on WTF Plus. Oh, and I just want to tell you that the new John Oliver episode, fun, hilarious. It was a good time. And I don't always have those. And before we go, a reminder, this show is sponsored by BetterHelp. There's a lot of focus on relationships this month. Here's the thing. Friendships and relationships don't need to be easy to be right the best ones happen when both people are committed to making them great and sometimes you need a little help therapy can be that help and better help matches you with a licensed therapist selected just for

you it's flexible 100 online and more affordable than in-person therapy. Give your relationship some love. Learn more at betterhelp.com. That's betterhelp.com slash WTF. Here's some guitar from the vaults. Thank you. guitar solo Thank you. Thank you. Boomer lives, monkey and lavanda Got angels everywhere. Jesus told me so.