WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1512 - Da'Vine Joy Randolph

Episode Date: February 15, 2024

Da’Vine Joy Randolph is in the midst of the highly competitive Hollywood award season, but the competitive fire always burns strong within her. From high school basketball to her time on a track scholarship to her foray into opera to the theater program at Yale, Da’Vine is always aiming for the top spot. She talks with Marc about nailing her Boston accent for The Holdovers, the reason she stopped singing, and the opportunities she’s making for herself in light of all the award talk.This episode is sponsored by Acorns. Notices: Paid non-client endorsement. May not be representative of all clients. Tier one compensation provided. Compensation provides an incentive to positively promote Acorns. View important disclosures at acorns.com/WTF. Investing involves risk, including the loss of principal. Please consider your objectives, risk tolerance, and Acorns’ fees before investing. Acorns Advisers, LLC (“Acorns”) is an SEC-registered investment adviser. Brokerage services are provided to clients of Acorns by Acorns Securities, LLC. Member FINRA/SIPC. For more information visit Acorns.com. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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What the fuckadelics? What's happening? How's everything going? Are we all right? You all right out there? Today I talk to Divine Joy Randolph. She is awesome. Nominated for Best Supporting Actress at the Academy Awards and the SAG Awards for her performance in The Holdovers.

She's already won the Golden Globe this year. But you might know her from Only Murders in the Building, Dolomite is my name. She was in that. Empire. She plays Mahalia Jackson in the new movie Rustin, which is a great movie. Learn something. She plays Mahalia Jackson in the new movie Rustin, which is a great movie. Learn something. I find I watch movies, especially these historical biopics, and I'm like, I didn't know any of that.

I kind of knew who that guy was. But why not know the story? If you're not going to read it, watch the movie. Here's some tour dates for you. Largo. These are L.A. dates. I'm at Largo on the 28th of this month. Then I'm at the Elysian the next night on February 29th. That's a Thursday.

Portland, Maine. I'm at the State Theater on Thursday, March 7th. Medford, Massachusetts at the Chevalier Theater on Friday, March 8th. Tickets are running out. Providence, Rhode Island at the Strand Theater on Saturday, March 9th. Tarrytown, New York at the Tarrytown Music Hall on Sunday, March 10th, tickets are running out. Providence, Rhode Island at the Strand Theater on Saturday, March 9th. Tarrytown, New York at the Tarrytown Music Hall on Sunday, March 10th. Atlanta, Georgia, I'm at the Buckhead Theater on Friday, March 22nd. Boise, Idaho, going to fly there from Atlanta.

Just added, I'm at the Egyptian Theater on Saturday, March 23rd as part of Comedy Fort at the Tree Fort Music Fest. Madison, Wisconsin at the Barrymore Theater. Wednesday, April 3rd, Milwaukee, Wisconsin at the Turner Hall Ballroom on Thursday, April 4th. Chicago at the Vic Theater on Friday, April 5th. Minneapolis at the Pantages Theater on Saturday, April 6th. Austin, Texas at the Paramount Theater. April 18th as part of the Moontower Comedy Festival.

Go to WTFpod.com slash tour for dates. I'm adding more dates in the fall. Maybe somebody will shoot this and put it on television. We'll see what happens. We'll see. I feel so, how can I explain to you? I feel lardy today. That's not a good word. I feel so, how can I explain to you? I feel lardy today. That's not a good word.

I feel thick, thick today. I had a massive vegan dinner last night. And sometimes if you're not careful and you go out for the vegan dinner, you'll starch it up, man. You will fucking carb it up, starch it up. I went to this new place, which happened to be fucking amazing. And I guess there's a dearth. Is that the word?

A dearth of vegan restaurants here in Los Angeles. But I'd been meaning to go to this place because I'd look up vegan restaurants in my neighborhood, and it would always come up. It's called B Wally's Vegan AF. B Wally's. B-E-E-W-L- E W L I S vegan AF as fuck. And it has, it has all these stars and I just never went. And I went last night and it was fucking amazing. Very eclectic menu that everything from like, you know, they have falafels. They had chicken gyro.

They had kebabs. They had paratha bread, vegan paratha bread. They had a couple of Indian dishes, chicken tikka masala and chana masala. Awesome. Awesome curry. They had burgers. They had these curry fries. So I ate with Kit.

We had one of each of those. Big basket of fries with curry all over them. Some chicken gyro, which they use this amazing fake chicken. And you know what? Most chicken is fake. I mean, I was thinking about it. I can't remember chicken with flavor. Was there a day?

You get a chicken breast. Is there flavor to it?. I can't remember chicken with flavor. Was there a day? Like you get a chicken breast. Is there flavor to it? There's texture, maybe a little flavor. Not much flavor if there's no skin. And I realized this is just as good. And I don't even think about, I don't even think about the real meat anymore. And you know what?

I think it is elevated. I always had a sensitivity to the animals, but boy, man, if I really think about, I've gotten so incredibly weirdly on some, well, who doesn't? Monsters. Monsters don't have empathy for the animals, but I'm very sensitive. Like I told you before, I can't, some movies I can't watch because I'm thinking about the dog that died or the horse that died. When did that happen to me? Does it have to do with the vegan frequency? Because that's not why I got into it. I got nothing against meat eaters per se.

I ate meat my whole life. But like, I can't even think about fish, but it's not about hurting the fish. I don't know what it is about fish. I don't, sometimes I'll crave a canned fish, some sort of a sardine or mackerel or some kind of smoked clam. But I don't think about regular fish because I just think like, I don't, there was some, I just think about the ocean. I think about the water. I think about the filth, but I'm sorry to say that I don't really acknowledge the fish as a sentient being. Chickens, you know, pigs. Man, the pigs, they're smart. We all know that.

But look, I'm not making a, this is no guilt fest. Look, eat all the meat you want, but I just can't, I don't know, something shifting in me about it. It wasn't ethical to begin with my intent. Now it seems to be moving in that direction. Look, folks, I'm sure you've been thinking about your loved ones this week. And of course you always want to make sure the people you love are safe and sound. When it comes to protecting your home and everyone in it, we've been recommending SimpliSafe Home Security since we started using it eight years ago. You get 24-7 professional

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That's simplisafe.com slash WTF. So, look, I went to the doc. I went to the orthopedic doctor. my dad was an orthopedic doctor i always feel better i'm one of those weird people that i feel uh feel better in the doctor's office sometimes i'm like ah look at it's like dad it's like dad when he he knew what he was doing and had control of things it's like dad in in the environment where he really was grounded and not too crazy. Look, it's like when I went to my dad's office. He broke my foot and he broke my leg and he set them badly.

I'm not saying he was a bad doctor, but I don't know. It doesn't matter. No resentment. Everything's fading away. Resentments are fading away. But I did go to a Dr. Wang. Yes. Foot doctor, orthopedic. And my fear was that I would need surgery. And we did the x-ray and I looked at the x-ray and they didn't look great to me. I saw the nurse bring them up on the screen. I'm like, that doesn't look like it's working out because I know how to read an x-ray.

And then the doc came in and he's like, yeah, it's filling in. It's cloudy. It looks a little better than I thought it would look. And I'm like, great. What happens now? He's like, well, if it keeps up like this, three weeks and you can take the boot off. And I'm like, but I have to keep wearing the boot, right? He's like, yep, around the clock, keep wearing it.

And I was like, you know how much it stinks, right? He's like, yeah, that happens. So good news. Good news. Don't need surgery as of this time three weeks take off the boot see how it looks and uh hopefully i'll be back in business and if you're fungus-y stench of my boot that I spray down with bowling alley shoe spray when I can and change my sock carefully.

If you're wondering about the status of that, I ordered another boot. So now I got a nice, fresh-smelling boot on. I washed that other one. I was obsessed with it. I was excited about it. I've been looking forward to it for two days. I had to fight the impulse to wash it and walk around on my heel. I didn't want to jeopardize my foot. So I got a new shoe. Now I can go back and forth and clean these fuckers. So that's the good news. That's the good news in the world today. I don't need surgery as of right now. I do know that I've been a little nuts. I've been exercising as best I can because the fear of not exercising and not getting the

dopamine shift and also the fear of processing curry fries, hummus, paratha, chicken gyro, basmati rice directly into something that hangs over my Adidas snap up pants. It's terrifying. So I've been doing that. I've been working out and God damn, I wish I could let go of some of these issues that have plagued me my entire life. And some of you might be thinking, well, Mark, why don't you use your therapist?

Don't think I don't. Why don't you just change your way of thinking? Easier said than done. Why don't you just let it go? When can I let it go? I'll let it go. But man, my wiring is fucked up in so many ways. Intimacy.

Fat. Self-confidence. Does it ever change? Kinda. It's kind of changing only by virtue of the fact is that I cannot deny that I'm 60 years old.

My best work may be behind me except for what I'm saying right now that I have my place in the world. It's not going to get any bigger, that I've done good work and that it's okay. I landed on my feet. Now it's just time to slowly walk off into the sunset. I don't know, not really sunset, maybe a mountain of psychic debris, but no, like just kind of get myself in perspective. Relax. God damn it. When does that happen? Well, this helps. As you know, last year I made a pretty big overhaul to my diet, and so far I've been able to stick to it.

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That's N-O-O-M.com. And check out Noom's first-ever cookbook, The Noom Kitchen, for 100 healthy and delicious recipes to promote better living. Available to buy now wherever books are sold. So listen, people. Devine Joy Randolph was a gas. We had a great time. I loved her.

We had so much fun. I loved her. We had so much fun. And it was fun because, you know, you see people in the movies who are like, where you're thinking like, is that person that fun in real life? She is. She's nominated for Best Supporting Actress at the Academy Awards. The Holdovers is now streaming on Peacock.

That's the movie she's in. And we got right into it. This is me talking to divine Joy Randolph. Uber Eats. Get almost, almost anything. Order now. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. I had Paul in here a few weeks ago.

Yeah? Yeah. He's the best, isn't he? Yeah. He's a really good man. It was interesting because I never know how I'm going to get along with people. I never met him before. You never know, right?

Right? And he's just like right in it. Yeah. Funny guy. Really good-hearted guy. Yeah? Yeah. How was it like on set?

The same. Yeah? And I think it's what helped us to be able to just open up and connect with one another. Yeah, sure. Right? Because you've acted. So you get get like it's weird yes you're meeting someone yeah for the first time and it's like get along or hate each other whatever the circumstances is of the of the project you're doing yeah so when you get a good one yeah not only an exceptional actor but a good human being, you're off to the

races. Right. Because then it's not just you working. If you're acting with somebody and they're just in their thing, and you realize, oh, no, I'm going to have to pretend the whole time. Yes, we've all had those, right? We're like, okay, they have planned this entire performance in their hotel room. Right.

And then you just end up sort of kind of once removed watching them act. Yeah. Yeah. And be like, oh, that was an interesting choice. Yeah. And you're doing the same one after seven takes. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah. That's just the way it's going to be. And I'm not sure what's in there emotionally, but I'll take what you're giving me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. But so like, yeah, I got this boot on. Did you ever break anything? Not yet. That's good. That's good. I just did it at the gym. Just broke it.

At the gym. I know. I was doing the right thing. You were doing good. Making good choices. Yeah, yeah. And your body was like, nope. Nope, nope.

Time to take a break. Wow. Time to take a break. So when you, like, when you got this part, because I lived in Boston for years. Oh, dope. Yeah. It was okay. Yeah.

How much time did you have to spend there? We were there for three months, three and a half months. But did you have to go learn it? Boston? Yeah. Okay. Okay. So they wanted us to live around where we were filming.

I'm from the city. So like I'm born and raised in Philadelphia, lived in New York. Now I'm here in LA. I am a city girl. Yeah. So like too much quiet really freaks me out. What happens? And it's actually not good for like.

For your brain? Yeah. It's too quiet. Like I remember the suburbs the first time of like spending the night over like a friend's house. When you were a kid? Yeah. And I was like, what is that sound? Isn't that weird?

It's quiet. Yeah. It freaked me out. It's scarier than noise. Yes. Like when I, if I'm driving across country or something and you see a house set back a little ways on its own. What are they doing? Exactly.

Can't be good. No. Those spots always freak me out. Yeah. There's probably just people sitting in there. But the idea of it. Literally makes me nervous. Yeah.

So the silence just fucks it up. So I was like, nope. This is an intense movie. Yeah. We're filming it the same time of year cold this movie's taking place multiple blizzards winter you know so it was like i need to be in the city yeah because you it's something about the isolation yeah it was already i mean you're already shooting a three-hander and abandoned buildings yeah it felt like a very well done independent

student film yeah and but it was freezing in the buildings freezing because we couldn't have the heat on right because the radiators were like ding ding ding making all this noise another level of the pretending yeah yeah yeah but did you get around Boston? Did you, like, how did you learn? Yeah, because I lived, that's where I stayed. In the city? In the city. What part? I was, like, on 1st Street or 2nd Street. I was, I could see the water or whatever their harbor was.

Yeah, yeah. I don't know exactly. Charles River or the whatever. Yeah, yeah. And, like, I found out, like, in our last five days, you know, like, when you're on location, you don't know the area. And then it's, like, that last week is, like week is like the most awesome week right because now you found the restaurant yeah yeah finally i can yeah so i but you know i yeah so i but it was tricky for me because um they are speaking contemporary boston dialect uh-huh and so i needed to both be around them and then also be like

you know what i mean because yeah my dialect that i'm doing in the movie is similar but also very different due to time period yes yes so it's like how'd you figure that out with a dialect coach a dialect coach she said that like 19 what was it Yeah, so it was like late 1960s. We went for late 19, the movie literally takes place on like December 69 until January 70. Oh my God. So it was the biggest, so we did YouTube videos of like interviews and looking at like little clips of like, yeah. like little like clips of like yeah the best thing is i call it youtube university but truly the best thing is finding like um news news reporters interviewing people yeah like so we was down there and they were talking about you know that's a great and then donna summer boston boston come on hardcore really hardcore boston so i'm looking at her Johnny Carson interviews.

Wow. And that was like my go-to gal. And then the realtor who helped me find the place, she was just so lovely and hospitable and was like little Miss Boston. And I would just listen to her all the time. And there were certain things that I was like, can I just record you say this word and this word because she was older so yeah yeah she had she was a little bit closer to me than like me going to dunkin donuts and i'm like ah yeah yeah yeah but does it get more

intense as time goes on is it farther like like that like or what's the difference um the biggest difference is that pacing. Yeah. Uh, because, uh, like the rhythm and the cadence. Yeah, yeah. So you get it. Like, it's more so like the lilts and the rhythm and the cadence. I lived there for years. Yeah.

And I think it depends when Bostonians are upset. Yeah. Things get like exaggerated and really bright like fath and you're like really? Wow. You don't want to stop it? You're still going.

I used to live in an apartment in Somerville and you know across the street there was a drama all the time drugs or whatever.

Of course. And there was always like it seemed like every other night there was a girl on the street yelling at her friend upstairs going

Jennifer! Yeah. You know like fath! What is that friend upstairs going, Jennifer! Yeah. You know, like, what is that? Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. Who is this dialect coach?

Tom Jones. So he's done like, he's known to work with Nicole Kidman on almost everything. Yeah. Did he make you that like phonetic sheet? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm a classically trained opera singer.

So I know IPA, you know, so in a way of helping. What's IPA? I think it's called the International Phonetic Alphabet. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, like the diphthong and the umlauts and stuff like that. You know those? Yeah, from opera. Well, yeah.

And then when I went to Yale, they made us learn it. And my speech and dialect was very frustrated with me because I'm a musician first. Right. My ear is sharp. Right. So I could speak it.

She was like, no, write it down. Yeah. It's like music theory. You know what I mean? The theory's the worst. We could do it all day, but write it down?

The worst. I don't know what you're talking about. And so they really, but yeah, no, so he's great. I met him on the set of doing Billie Holiday because he worked with Andrew Day for Billie Holiday. And so I was always like, if ever it could work out, I would love to work with that man. And it was perfect because I did that.

And then right after that, worked with him on Rustin to do Mahalia Jackson. So he's great because he's so music based. Well, you've done a lot of time traveling. I like time traveling. That's the best. Right? Especially, you know, because some of those things like the Billie Holiday movie and Rustin is just so loaded with, you know, with the tension and evolution of people. Yes.

Yeah. Yes. So you had to look, because when I did a mild Texas accent in 2 Lesley, before every scene, I just look and make sure I go from the sentences against the pronunciation to make sure you can do it. Yeah. And load your head. I call them key phrases. Right. Right. So for different, usually the biggest notice or notification of a dialect is vowels and the pacing.

That's the biggest thing. And you are aware that the Boston one's the diciest one to do. It's tricky because it is close to, there are some New York-isms. Sure. There's this hairy Midwest stuff with this happy apple, that A. Yeah, I wonder what that is, where that comes from. I don't know, because everything is geographical. So Chicago, even some Cleveland.

It's not too far, but it is a couple of skips. It's a mixture of that. Because then you go all the way up from even Philly, New York, Jersey, Boston. There's a mixture of that. And then, cause then you go like all the way up from even, you know, Philly, New York, Jersey, Boston. There's an evolution of some sort of thing.

Big time. Yeah. Cause I'm from Philly and Philly is close to New York, but there's certain things that New Yorkers do extra, you know what I mean? Or that Philly does a little bit more. so I was like, cause at first they were like,

oh yeah, you're from the Northeast. It's fine. I was like, are y'all crazy? yeah you're from the northeast it's fine I was like are y'all crazy yeah right right yeah

like because right I would feel some type of way like I remember watching Silver Liner Playbook and I was like good job you know what I mean

like it's right on the mark good job I love that movie I just watched it again I love that movie I can't I was just thinking about

Jennifer Lawrence today so amazing so Lawrence today so amazing so fucking funny so amazing she is so funny I know I hope she does more yeah I know

more comedy stuff no kidding yeah yeah so wait what was the accent that was Philly that's right

Robert De Niro and all of them they all nailed it cause I was like De Niro watch out right cause it's close to New York

yeah yeah he did it he did it he did it it made me watch out. Right? Because it's close to New York. Yeah, yeah. He did it. He did it. He did it. It made me so happy. Isn't that amazing? And that's how I was for this movie. I was like, if I get it, it's a love.

You know what I mean? It's like, what's up? I see y'all. You know what I mean? It's giving a nod. Respect. That's what it is. It's like, respect.

And also, there's the respect, and there's the other part of your brain like, I don't want to fuck this up. 100%. And for me too, I like to make the character. If the character is not like me, what are all the things that I can do to not make her like me? Because I don't want to be like myself. Because if I'm like myself, then I fear that I won't give fully to the character what it needs to have. that I fear that I won't give fully to the character what it needs to have. So I like to try as many.

That's almost the first thing I do when reading a script to figure out how different actually am I from this person. Yeah, yeah. And let me. And I think that's sometimes the fun of acting, right? Of like, oh, what are their skills and things that they have and do that I don't have? Yeah. And like the funness of like learning it, even for an audition. Yeah.

Right. I think it's like the beauty and the craziness of being an actor. Yeah. I found that like, and I've only done a little bit of acting, but it seems that you are who you are and then you have to just decide what to turn down or turn up. Correct. Like you're turned off. Because it's the human experience.

Right. And that's a beautiful thing. Like with time and effort, anybody can do it. People hate when I say that. I really believe anybody can act. I think it takes courage and willing to be vulnerable, but anybody can act. But also it takes the ability. I think the hardest thing is the lack of self-consciousness.

Correct. And not being conscious that you're surrounded by people. Correct. I surrender it over immediately. I don't even like going into ADR while filming. Like now that I've worked more and more. They make you do ADR while filming? Yeah, man.

I hate it. Why? Why do they make you do it during filming? Especially with TV. Like if you're, you know what I mean? Like if you're in a series. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. And I'm always like, so I asked them now. Now I feel like I have enough guts to be like, turn the camera off. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm like, you know me, I'm like, I'm musical. I can hear the metronome counting me in. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I know turn the camera off. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm like, you know what I mean? I'm musical. I can hear the metronome counting me in.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know what the rhythm is. Because if I see myself, then here comes the critical. You know what I mean? Then I'm like, what is she doing? Yeah, I like this childlike reckless abandonment. That's why I really admire people like Bradley Cooper cooper or jack black like this kind of wildness yeah within form you know what i mean like he can really put me in a fence but let me like be like

a wild bull running all over the right yeah so if i look at myself on adr then then i'm like oh why did i do that and i love just being able to just surrender to the role. Yeah. And let it like overcome you. And you did, how much, you shot for three months? Three months. Yeah. Several blizzards. I think that's why we got close too, because it was like, it was kind of like a life. It's survival.

We in this. And I would just sit there like, is today a snow day? Do I get off of work today? Nope. Okay. You're here with these two other people. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

And that kid was good. He's good. Yeah, yeah. He has a good soul. Yeah. He has an old soul. Odd guy. Like, he's got a, his frequency is unique.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that, I think they said they auditioned like 800 kids. Wow. That's too many. But I think that's, you know, that's a testament to Alexander Payne. I would never.

Yeah. He makes a very tight movie. You know, he makes, you know, there's nothing unthought of. No. And he's okay to work with. Amazing to work with. Yeah. He's so actor friendly.

You know, there's things that to be honest i thought like oh well maybe i'll get it later in life you know when i've quote unquote made it yeah that he takes care of the actors in such a way when you come on set everything's taken care of like for example the way your desk looks right now yeah if we were doing the movie version of this yeah this is exactly what your desk would look like yeah normally it would be like right like the tissue box the notepad the computer yeah we're good we get it it's a studio yeah but no he put every detail stuff in drawers that only we know about and can see that's interesting yeah i noticed that when i'm on set sometimes where they when they dress a set and there's a difference But sometimes like there's a million things in there

and like, and I'm like, why is, why is there so much shit in here? But you know, in the frame, it just fills the frame. You know,

it doesn't need to be. It just looks real. It's also like, I don't know, for me it's helpful because it's there. Sometimes I can mess around and play with it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or it just feels real. Yeah, yeah. It feels tangible. So wait, so now what part of Philly? The mountain area originally. I don't know the city that well, but I do know that I like Philly. Thank you.

I mean, like I know from touring and from being in places, there's a few cities that are really like their own thing. Yeah. Right? It's like it's Philly, New York, Boston, Chicago, I guess D.C., but not really. I know,

but I think it's because D.C. is like, you know, all the other stuff, like the White House. Yeah, yeah. But when you can, I agree with you,

when you can get into like the community for real, for real, I really dig D.C. Oh, yeah? Yeah. But Philly's like hardcore. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. I used to, they, great food. Yes. And interesting, very forward people. Yes. They don't take any shit in Philly.

So now do you grow up in a big family? Kind of. Yeah. So my immediate family was in Philly. We had like a couple of aunts and uncles in Philly. But like, because Philadelphia is where where it is like you were saying earlier yeah you got people in new york dc baltimore jersey yeah and then it was like the south so like everyone was like most of my family could get to within like two hours yeah yeah be in

different states yeah yeah right but it's that eastern seaboard yeah but it's so it's so funny to me like to be in that tri-state i guess guess that's what they call it. The tri-state area, you're constantly on the highway driving. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, I'm going to go to my auntie's house. Yeah. That is two hours away. Yeah.

But you're driving it like she's down the block. Right. But it's just normal. Train sometimes. Yeah, I'm going to New York. Take the train? It is what it is. Yeah.

It's great. Yeah. But most of you have people down south, too? Yeah, like Atlanta, Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina. Yeah, totally different. Yeah, and that would be like summers. Yeah, oh, you'd go down there? Not all the time.

I'd be like, Mom, I don't know. Too weird down there. You need to go down there. Which relatives were down there? It would be like the great aunt. That's the problem. It wouldn't be people that you would know on a day-to-day. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know what I mean? It'd be the people at the funeral you'd be like say hi to your auntie you're like oh hey yeah I met you when I was six yeah

go to her house yeah yeah I don't know that lady strange house yeah it's always those people that you're like I would much rather

go to my people yeah yeah the outside the one aunt or cousin that you don't know and then you missed over go to her house yeah and then you're all automatically like it's weird here yeah i can't what is in these cabinets and it's so sad because they they're so happy to have i know i know i know they're so happy and you're just like

the whole time brothers and sisters though yeah i have a sister yeah yeah well she's your sister she is into medicine like medicine medicine yeah like a doc like at four she was like she's i want to be a doctor i'll never get it we were at the doctor's office i had to get a shot and i was like paranoid i'm like running around having a doctor the nurse chase me all over the place. I was like, you're not going to get me. My sister was like, I'll take it. I'll take her shot. I was like, what is wrong with this girl? At four, she was like, I want to be a doctor.

Is she a doctor? Nope. But she's going. Now she's a field hockey coach. different it's different yeah but she's she loves it yeah she loves school yeah yeah university she's a coach that smith ah yeah well they probably have a good field hockey team. Yeah. They do now. Yeah. What did your folks do? My parents are educators. So my mom, she did like from K through five. Yeah.

But kindergarten was her sweet spot. Yeah. And your dad too? But I always remembered that because I was like, whoa. It was so personal, you know, with kindergarten because they're young. Yeah. So my mom's like cooking extra food and bringing it because she taught in inner city, you know with kindergarten because they're young yeah so my mom's like cooking extra food and bringing it because she taught inner city you know so sometimes those kids are coming to

school not being fed or not having clothes you know my clothes and my mom that's she's just a giver so you got to be like a teacher and a social worker and yep caregiver Yeah. And your dad was a teacher too? Yeah, my dad. So we moved then to Hershey, Pennsylvania when I was in high school. My eighth grade year, we moved. Hershey. Yeah. We went to Chocolate.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, Suburbs. That's when it first started getting quiet. I was like, ooh. Gotta get out. Gotta get back to the city. Immediately. How old were you?

So I went to Temple. So it was my eighth grade. Immediately. So I went to Temple. So it was my eighth grade. So I did high school. So when did you start getting involved with, you know, like doing performance stuff? Always. I was always doing something. I remember my mom said when I was younger, we went to like Busch Gardens. You remember?

Is Busch Gardens still a thing? I don't know, but I remember it. And they used to have this like- It's like an amusement park? Yeah. Right. And it was like in Virginia or something. Like it was Woodsy. I remember being in Woodsy. thing i don't know but i remember it and they used to have like an amusement park yeah right and it was like but it was like in virginia or something like it was woodsy i remember being woodsy yeah and my mom said that like i was in the we were like in line for something

and she lost she turned around and i wasn't there yeah and she was like freaking out looking everywhere yeah and there was like this area called like bear country or something. Yeah. And it was like these stumps and you know, like these like little automated bears. Oh yeah. Sure. Singing and on a banjo. Yeah.

And there I was on this little stoop. Yeah. Singing with the bears. Shucking and jiving and people are throwing coins and stuff. And I was like, what are you doing? Yeah. And I'm like,

mom, I'm with the bears. Yeah. That's who I am. I'm doing my thing. Yeah. So wild. Yeah. No, I'm with the bears. Yeah, that's who I am. I'm doing my thing. Yeah, so wild. Yeah, no, always. Just creative and doing stuff.

I remember Little Mermaid. I used to put a towel on my head. Yeah. I used to do full-blown concerts when it was time to go to bed. Yeah. My mom used to like lullaby music. Yeah. I used to be like, mom, I would like to listen to the soundtrack of Aladdin.

I would like to listen to the soundtrack of Little Mermaid. Yeah. Full blown. And you'd do the whole show right before bed? Yep. Whole show. The entire, and I would flip it over to Sybin. Yeah.

The entire thing. My mom would get so angry. So it was singing? Singing. Yeah. Because I wasn't, I think, yeah. Because acting was not on my radar at all. Yeah.

When did it become serious? This is a thing. Yeah. I was a latchkey kid, so I was heavy into all the after school programs. Philadelphia actually has a really good, at least when I was growing up, very good arts programs and after school programs and like performing arts. Yeah. We have tons of museums and music is a big scene. growing up very good arts programs and after school programs and like performing arts yeah we have tons of museums and music is a big scene you know there's that 70s philly sound so it it's a big part of it culturally uh and i don't know i i say that to say they had me in everything yeah

i never the way my sister was like four yeah i never had that yeah my parents are kind of like well try different things out and you just did it after school mostly yeah and then like after school programs and then you know because then that would turn into weekends of stuff and i remember seeing fame and like i was like oh that's cool yeah so then i was like really into like please get me into performing arts school did you get into one yeah and that was fun uh this would have been high school high school so i graduated high school in 2004 so i went to like performing art schools and that was fun i enjoyed that did it feel serious then competitive i'm a very

competitive person. Right. Well, I imagine when performing arts high school is like everybody's gunning for the big time. My dad in many ways raised me like a boy. Yeah. So sports and singing was always competing with each other. And I remember one time I was in a voice lesson. It was my junior year.

And my voice teacher was like, listen, you can't come to me hoarse because I would come fresh off of like basketball. Right. So I would have a game on Thursday, have a voice lesson on Friday, sound like this. And she'd be like, what am I supposed to do with this? And she was the one that was like, you have a gift and both choose. Yeah. And that was it. No more basketball.

Well, and I got a scholarship to the University of Miami. And I was like, is this what I'm going to do? For what? No. For track, actually. Oh, really? For discus. Yeah.

Javelin and shot. You were doing discus, javelin, shot. I was like a Zen little Buddhist monk. I loved discus traveling shopping i love it was i was like a zen little buddhist monk i loved discus so much wow it was like i can't even imagine what have you seen somebody do it yeah you gotta twirl around like two or three times it's like aerodynamics is a huge component yeah and like it's this little like you said this little twirly move. Yeah. And how the discus really, yo, I was into it. You were good enough to get a scholarship. I went to states and everything.

I loved it. Shot put too? Yeah. I did shot put to keep my arm good for discus. And javelin? All about aerodynamics. So it really was all catered towards discus. Yeah.

But keeping all those in rotation, like the shot put and that's crazy i've never talked to somebody who is great at discus throwing it but if you look at it it's very it's almost like baleic no no yeah it's so graceful yeah and beautiful and everybody kind of has their own like pun intended spin on it yeah and i but i it was so amazing that i could tell this is so crazy i haven't talked about this in years i could tell by how the disc because it's like you could do it where it's like a rubber rim and it's wooden in the middle so how well how big are those things like this size is actually right here or bigger bigger yeah yeah like a plate yeah and you and they're weighted so you can find the right weight for you.

Yeah. Yeah, because some people like it to be lighter. Yeah. I needed mine to have a little bit of weight to it so it could help me, for me, propel it. And so you could have all rubber ones or the old school ones was like the center disc was wooden and then the outside rim was like metal. Did you have old school? I didn't like those. You don't like those?

I liked the rubber. Yeah. The rubber one was nice because I could feel it off of my- And they were all professional? Yeah. Did you have a little school? I didn't like those. You don't like those? I liked the rubber. Yeah. The rubber one was nice. And they were all professional? Yeah. You could choose whatever one. Yeah. Yeah.

Didn't matter. Yeah. And I could, but you could feel it. I could tell. Yeah. Whether or not, like, and they have it for a size for women versus a size for men. Yeah. The men's are larger.

Yeah. That's probably to like a, maybe like a little bit smaller than like a dinner plate. Yeah. Whereas the women's is in between like a little bit smaller than like a dinner plate. Yeah. Whereas a woman's is in between like a kid's plate versus like an adult plate. Yeah. I loved it, man. Because it's quiet. Yeah.

If you're by yourself. So literally the whole track meet is happening. Yeah. Off on the track. Yeah. And you're like off in the woods somewhere. With your plate. Yeah.

And you're just, and you're just watching it. It's almost like, I imagine, I've never played golf before, but like, you know how golf can be like zen and therapeutic? And you're just, ooh. When was the last time you picked up a discus? Not soon enough. You're making me itch for it. Now I've got to get back. Get back to the discus.

That would be so funny if that was your hobby. Yeah, right? Just out in your backyard. Oh, man. Keeping the discus. That would be so funny if that was your hobby. Yeah, right? Just out in your backyard. Oh, man. Keeping the discus. And what's so rewarding and satisfactory about it is when you're in that sweet spot, that sucker soars. Yeah. That's what's cool about it.

Yeah. Almost like maybe bowling might be. Like, you know what I mean? Yes, power. I think golf. Sounds like golf would be a good. But yeah, it's really the form. Yeah. And it's the distancing, right? Yeah. Who can get would be a good. But yeah, it's really the form. Yeah.

And it's a distancing, right? Yeah. Who can get it the furthest? Who can get it to sail the furthest? And so you were winning state competitions and stuff? Yeah, man. And you were in, so you were at a crossroads where it was sort of like. Can you imagine?

It was a basketball because I'm a talker. I got a mouth. Yeah. So I would be talking smack. Yeah. And I would be hoarse at games, like yelling and stuff. Right. And then literally come and she's like,

you can't, you can't. But when you, when you were looking at a scholarship for, you know, for discus, did you realize at that time where it's like, this isn't a life.

Exactly. That I was like, you can go to university, Miami full ride, have a blast. Right. And then what are you going to do with your life? Yeah.

Right. Cause like, if you don't get in the Olympics, what the hell is a discus person? Yeah. Yeah. It's right. And then, and then what are you going to do with your life because if you don't get in the Olympics what the hell does a discus person do and then that too discus at the Olympics no shade but like right

can you imagine if I was trying to pick up a guy at the bar like what do you do I'm in the Olympics for discus the one that nobody watches I've never even seen it on the big one. Yeah. The big Olympics. But they do it.

Again, they're off in the corner in the woods somewhere. Sure. Doing it and like zen. Yeah. Having their own time. Yeah. Wow. All right.

So you made the choice. No University of Miami. That was a big choice. It was a big choice. And then where'd you end up going? That was a big choice. It was a big choice. And then where'd you end up going?

I went to Interlochen, which is like this performing arts school for high school. Right. And I had got- Were you focusing on the singing? Yeah, so this is what happened. Yeah. I went to high school. I was in choir. And there was this chick from Canada, new, came in.

And she was like, I went to Interlochen. And it's the most amazing school. Again, I'm competitive. The sports will never leave me. And I was like, I don't know what this is. But I'm doing it. Yeah, just to beat her. Yeah.

She then left. What? Who are you competing with? Yeah. And got there. Where is it? It's in Traverse City, Michigan. It's like two, three hours outside of Detroit.

Yeah, I know Traverse City. Random. I only know it for that. I just got offered a gig there and I didn't go. Really? Yeah, maybe I should have went. Interlochen from Interlochen? No, I was thinking it was a festival, Traverse City.

Oh, yeah, maybe. Yeah. I think it's like they have cherries or something. Yeah, something. Like the cherry festival. Whatever. Everyone's got a festival. Everyone. And so get there. Yeah. And then I'm like, Yeah, something. Like the Cherry Festival. Whatever. Everyone's got a festival. Everyone.

And so get there. Yeah. And then I'm like, oh, snap. Yeah. These people are singing classical. This is a classical program. You didn't know that? No.

Going in? You were just sort of like, I'm going to go because that girl was. Yeah. Yeah. And I got there and I was like, oh, snap. Yeah. Classical. And so that's how I got introduced to classical music.

And it resonated? People were telling me I was good. I thought I was just dicking around. Like, I was mimicking it. But did you like it, the music? I remember feeling like, oh, wow, this is, like, it's moving me. Like, I would feel stuff. Yeah, yeah.

Like, I remember I used to, I ended up losing my voice at some point while I was there. And I remember sitting in the orchestra of rehearsals. Yeah. And just listening to the music. Yeah. And I was like, oh, there's something deep. Right. With this music.

Yeah. Like, it's making me feel emotional. My chest is getting tight. Like, I remember being like being like wow this stuff is yeah powerful for no words you're talking like beethoven mahler yeah that stuff yeah and if you look it up interlocking has a theme song i forget what it is from but it is so moving huh um and it's funny because if you play if anybody said they want to interlock it and if you played it, I guarantee they would probably start tearing up and crying. Really?

Yeah. It's beautiful. So I was like, oh, wow. This is a heavy school. Theme song makes you cry. Yeah. It was real. Oh, yeah.

People crying all over the place. Tears. Tears. But yeah yeah so i was like okay classical yeah because i knew i could sing but i thought i was gonna be like you know a recording artist or something sure yeah like you know featuring on some usher single or something like that yeah as i was like there's still time yeah hey and then you could do it and maybe but all right so so then it was like classical and I was rolling with the classical, had a voice teacher, and she was like, you know, she kind of sold me on it. She was like, you know, travel the world, men will be doting on you, amazing food will be for free, gowns, like, you'll live a good life.

A very insulated life. She didn't tell me that part, right. I mean, because. So I'm thinking I'm just like, you know, a good life. A very insulated life. She didn't tell me that part. Right. So I'm thinking I'm just like, you know, pre-Madonna. Like, you know, I'm like, I get to go to Italy, eat pasta, find Italian men, wear dresses. Yeah. Literally. I'm what?

Like 18, 17? You had your priorities? Yeah. I'm like, I can have bags, diamonds. Okay. This is a priorities. Yeah. I'm like, I can have bags, diamonds. Okay. This is a life. Yeah. Yeah.

And so I went, speaking of music theory, we did like a showcase at Interlochen. Juilliard was like, what's up? We're interested in you. Come and do the formal audition. Now is this opera singing? Yeah, which is crazy because I'm like, I don't really know this. Like, I'm faking it.

Yeah, sure. I'm literally like doing like, and to my brain, the cartoon version of this. Yeah. But I, you know, at this point, people are like, well, stop telling people that you're doing that because you're doing it. Yeah, yeah.

Whether you think it's faking or not, it's working. Because everybody's faking it. So don't tell people that you're faking it. But literally, I say that to say, I was in a voice lesson one day. And she's like, well, what do you think classical music sounds like? What does an opera singer sound like to you? And I was like, I don't know. And I did.

And she was like, great. That's it. You're in. Solid. Are you an alto soprano? I am a baby dramatic mezzo soprano. So like the Wagner pieces. That's like a classical term.

Basically meaning, like if it was like rock music, it would be like a belter with a range. Okay, yeah. Maybe like, there's Miley Cyrus. I like a... There's Miley... I'm trying to think. Yeah, she's a good example.

I know she can go low. Can she go quite high, too? I wonder. But someone who basically is like a belter that equally has the deep as well as the high. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So like bigger pieces like Wagner, and like, you know what I mean?

Dramatic. Yeah, so they call it a baby dramatic soprano oh wow so okay so are you singing in german i don't really like singing in german but i mean that but was that part of the gig yeah so when i so i uh ended up going to temple yeah for it for the teacher yeah and so yeah when you're in a conservatory you're learning all the romance languages and german like so italian spanish french german so but did you understand any of them i mean ish and then i would like go like you know when you're in college and you like go abroad yeah and i'm going to paris and i'm like only reciting poetry because that's all I know.

You know what I mean? Yeah. So you're going for this while you're in school? Yeah. To do stuff? Yeah, to do stuff or like to visit or you know what I mean? Like take immersives. Oh, I love traveling.

I love being around. So you went to Paris? Did you go to Italy too? Yeah. To study the economy? Yeah. I got into a program. This is funny.

I got into a program in Spoleto, Rome, like a small little town. Yeah. And when I was like 19 and it was to be there for a year. Yeah. My dad said, absolutely not. What was he worried about? The men. a year yeah my dad said absolutely not what was he worried about the men because this yeah this freaking the t the person of the program yeah was like you're in and then was like but we're gonna have to provide a bodyguard for her because she's got curves at a young age and

she she's exactly what they want and my my dad was like, oh, yeah? They'll never have her. And I was like, no. I was like, oh, I'm about to go to Italy. This is about to be on a popper. This is what the lady's talking about from before. My dad said, absolutely not. The bodyguard kind of fucked that deal up. Yeah.

Take you behind to Philadelphia at Temple University. Enjoy. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so I was doing that. Everything was cool. And we were doing Aida. And I was like, wow, this is a heavy story. This lady is a queen.

This is an African queen or princess at that time. She gets sold into slavery. She ends up falling in love with the man that sold her into slavery. She's working for him. He professes his love and is like, you know, I don't care what anybody says. This is my lady. They're like, great. You will die together.

And there's literally a scene where they're buried alive while they're singing this beautiful aria. Opera was like Shakespeare, you know what I mean? Like, you ever know, have you ever seen a Shakespearean play? And it's like, you can tell when, I call it, they're doing it for themselves or they're doing it for the people. When they're doing it for themselves, it's literally like they're speaking a foreign language, right? You know when you see certain Shakespeare plays and you're like.

I don't know what's going on. I have no clue. And I'm tired. Very, right? So I'm like, listen, I don't know what's going on. I have no clue. And I'm tired. Very. Right? So I'm like, listen, I'm from Philadelphia. I want to make sure when my people come and see it, they're going to understand.

They feel it. Yeah, they know what's going on. They don't have to rely on reading that little subtitles. I want them to be able to look at me and connect. So that was the breakthrough. Not really. I mean. For you. Well, I was like i i just want to i want them to know and connect with it yeah so i went across the street i'm copying sheet music in what is the communications theater building and uh i'm hearing all these screams and yelling

i'm thinking somebody's getting robbed yeah and it was an acting class and so i was like what is going on in there and uh it's trouble yeah so i was like oh it's acting so i my brain is thinking cool i'm gonna ask the teacher and they will work on me on like i guess now will be considered like scene study or like script work like prep so you could bring it to the opera yes so that i understood what i was saying so it could be conveyed and maybe my people will get it right yeah yeah yeah very very very long story short the music department finds out i'm not keeping it a secret they find out when they kick me out because you you uh uh approached an acting teacher to help you with the drama of the opera? Correct.

And as I share this story more and more, I'm finding out that it's more common than not. In a way, I get it, but it's just, I don't want to say it's sad because it brought me to this moment. So clearly that was meant to be. But a lot of times when conservatories or let's say creative performing arts departments don't have a musical theater department, which is kind of the bridge. Yeah. A lot of these schools, I guess, either experience floaters, like kids going from one to the next. I don't know. First of all, let them explore. Right.

But because it's a conservatory, it's like military almost, right? Exactly. So you're one of ours, and this is how this goes. So it's competitive with the other disciplines. Correct. But they see that everything you need to know is here with us. Yes. So if you go over there, then you're doing some other thing.

Exactly. And they were like, you can go over there. I said, I don't want to go over there. What do you mean? Yeah. But they felt threatened and all this stuff. And so they flunked me out my junior year. Flunked you out?

Yeah. That's how they did it. So they have a thing your junior year called juries. So remember how I said you have- This is a temple? Yeah. Yeah. So you remember how I said you have to learn all these different languages. Right. So remember how I said, this is a temple. Yeah. Yeah. So you remember how I said they have all,

you have to learn all these different languages. Right. So in juries, it's like, it really is kind of like what people would consider like your senior thesis. Yeah. So you're doing a French piece. Right.

All the romance. You're doing a piece in every language. Yeah. Yeah. Even doing some American stuff. And, uh, yeah,

they flunked me. Now, mind you, I got accepted into Juilliard. The only reason why I didn't go to Juilliard, because I had no, I'd never done musical theory. So Juilliard was basically like, you can go learn it because it's two parts of the test. It's the performance and then it's the musical theory test. And obviously I failed it.

Like what? Circle of fifths? What are we actually talking about? And so they were like, you can come back next year and apply. And I was like, I'm not losing time. To Juilliard. I'll go to Temple for the teacher. Yeah.

Got into Juilliard. Went to Temple. When I went to Temple, I was like a star student, we'll say. So for them to flunk me out i was like okay i get what this is no loyalty well not even that it just it was it was their stuff had nothing to do right right yeah but and so in that moment but i was imagine your junior year because your senior year in conservatories there it's really just about you uh it's like basketball yeah you're you just figuring out what team you about to be on.

Yeah, right. Right? So what orchestra house you're going to be with. Yeah. So at that point, my mother was like, you need to go across the street to the theater department. Yeah. You know, she's an educator. So she's like, I've already checked.

Most of your credits will transfer if you go to the theater department. And so. So for your senior department. Yeah. And so. So for your senior year. Man, I cried. I mean, I literally had the, like, the transcripts in my hand. Yeah. And bawling. And I was like.

You know when it's like that child cry when you're like. But the catch breaths. And she was like, what? And I was like. with the cat's breast. And she was like, what? And I was like, and she was like,

are you sure? And I was like, no, I have to. And yeah. Was your mom, was it because she, she believed you could do it? My mother wanted that diploma. She wanted you to finish.

Yeah. And I think it was kind of her being like, they're not about to get us down. Right. You're going to graduate all the time. In year four. Right. Yeah to finish. Yeah. And I think it was kind of her being like, they're not about to get us down. Right. You're going to graduate on time. In year four. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And to this day, my mom does say like, no, you were doing some weird creative things as a child. Like, it wasn't that off. I just was so like, no. So at that time growing up, that was when like, you know, you're in carpool with your classmates and they're singing random. Like, and again, too, because of performing arts goes right. And high school, it is very disciplined area. Like, I'm not mixing with the musical, the classical music people aren't mixing with the theater.

Right, right, right, right. I'm only mixing with musicians. Yeah. You know what I mean? The vocalists or theater kids. Right, right, right, right. I'm only mixing with musicians. Yeah. You know what I mean? Either vocalists or instrumentalists. Yeah, yeah. So I'm not, I'm not, those worlds were very. I'm sure you saw yourself.

That world sees itself as more disciplined. Yes. And theater people were so weird to me. Jumping around. Yes. Yeah. So I was just like, what? But my mom was like, no, it was, there were things there.

Yes. For like literal purposes, that was it. Yeah. But she was like, I'm there were things there, yes, for literal purposes, that was it. But she was like, I'm your mother. I know who you are. It was in there. I just never, ever saw it. So she was right? Yeah.

And a year, well, I was very still like, at that point, I was hurt. You know what I mean? Because I was kicked out and turned down from something that I've been doing my entire life, whether it's classical or not. Yeah. Music is my heart. Like, music is what I know. Right. You know what I mean?

Yeah. Like, there's not a memory or day I don't know in my house where there wasn't. I would wake up to music in the house. I would go to bed to music in the house, you know? Yeah. go to bed to music in the house you know yeah so that was and quite honestly even while through school uh both at uh temple for that last year because it was the dean that was like we're gonna i'm applying you to graduate school i was strictly in survival mode because you had to keep in mind i'm cam i'm cramming a four year which really really, what I quickly found out, four years in university is really two years, two intense years.

Yeah. I was cramming it in one year. Right. And so I was just solely, excuse me, focused on that. And so when they're bringing to the table, quite literally, applications for the top five schools. Graduate school. Yeah. I'm like, what are y'all talking about?

And they were like well what else you gonna do you're gonna move to new york yeah like 42nd street and this is that your senior year so you're in the acting program now and you're killing it they said i had an it's hard for me it's crazy i still have imposter syndrome to this very second because i don't because again it's not what i you know what i mean and even when but then even when i was talking about being a kid like i never was like this is the thing sure i knew i was good at different things i never knew yeah therefore this is my path in life and the weird way i still feel that way yeah we know we know that discus is out you know what i might coach

some kids on saturday but no you know what i mean so yeah but they they did they saw like there's something there yeah and then yale was the first school that i auditioned for that was intense i mean there was kids with their i went by myself drove up to new haven i took amtrakrak to New York, then Metro North into Connecticut. Yep. And by myself from Temple, I took off. I was like, I'm not going to school today. I'm auditioning.

And so you got your classical piece and your modern piece. But again, competitive, I had eight pieces. Ready to go. They asked for two, maybe four. And you gave them choices or did you choose? Yeah, I was like, which one you got? I got this, I got this, I got this. And they asked for them.

Yeah? Almost all of them. Wow. Because I think at that point they were like, I mean, if you got it, let's see them. Put on a show. Yeah. Now that I can do. And so, yeah, no.

And it was, but it was very, you know, but you got to keep in mind, it's still a show. Yeah. Now that I can do. And so, yeah, no. And it was, but it was very, you know, but you got to keep in mind, there's still a lot of pain. There's a lot of pain of, it's still been only a year. Since the music heartbreak. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I still, I don't feel akin to acting at all.

I'm just like, maybe this will buy me another three years for me to figure my life out. And due to my parents, education is where I felt comfortable. And I knew that they wouldn't cause too much of a fuss

if I just went into another school. Yeah. So you go to Yale. So I go to Yale. They're ecstatic because they're like, Yale. And I'm like, I'm going for acting. They were like, I don't care. You're getting a master's at Yale.

And did that turn you around? Did that ease the heartbreak? Did that read? the final interview because it's like it's like Juilliard you know like I think I say that because Juilliard I think has documented right there's like movies on like the audition process and how there's like that pecking order I think there's a movie

somewhere and they throw you out every year they throw Batch out yeah like you can at any time you could be on probation and possibly be out the door

right and I know they show it like on center stage but what's genius about it is that they introduce you to how they roll from jump who yale and all these schools you know i mean with this pecking order like from your audition they're letting you know you are discardable yeah yeah right yeah so the the competitive one in me but also something that's worked to my advantage is the me not knowing all the pieces to the puzzle. And kind of letting fate and me being prepared guide me through. Like I didn't know,

I didn't even know the grandeur of what, beyond it being an Ivy League, I didn't know how profound that acting program was. Oh, that the Yale, well, yeah, it's one of the best.

Yeah. One of the top two. I had no idea. I think there's only three. There's Juilliard, Yale, and then it used to be Carnegie Mellon, right? Yeah, or like NYU. Right. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, and so in the interview, I was like, hey, I just want to let you know, because they said, so this portion of the audition, you will sing. I said, oh, yes, sir, I don't sing. He was like, you don't sing. And this was like the first day of it. Yeah. And I, yes, sir. I don't sing. He was like, you don't sing. And this was like the first day of it. Yeah. And I was like, yeah, I don't have a voice.

I don't sing. I just said I don't have the talent for it. Really? Right, because I didn't want to say I was hurt. I didn't want to sing. And also, I was- So you're telling me that what happened to Temple affected your confidence? 100%.

Wow. That's what I knew. Can can you imagine that's all i knew so now i'm doing something completely new at like this apprentice professional level and i don't even know what this acting thing is yeah i only had months of learning about acting right i'm now auditioning to go to now what i'm finding is the top schools yeah this is backwards right and so he asked me how i sing i started off by just like oh i i know i'm not a singer yeah just i can't even do it at all not even like i used to nothing you right i was like i could do it all this is the first day i come back for the final callback which is like months later yeah so i got out of the first time

they say okay so this next portion you we're going to do singing again. I said, yeah, remember guys, I don't sing. He said, actually, we look some things up and you do. And I was like, oh, that is so invasive. And I just was like, listen. And it was something funny enough that to a certain degree, I'm working my way out of it. This was in 2008 yeah we were almost 20 years later and i am slowly working myself out of it this is how it started of the heartbreak or the injury no no the idea of um i did it once i realized okay

this acting thing is going to be the thing yeah i didn't want people to see me as a singer who could maybe act. Okay. I was like, if I'm going to do this acting thing, I want to be an actor that you might find out later can sing. Right. Okay. That makes sense. I've been writing that for a very long time until recently. Because this is what will happen.

I'll go on to set and people will be like, I love it. The directors at first. So like, you know, it's either the Yale thing. They're later like, oh, sure. So you went to Yale. I'm always like, oh, it's going to be one or two things. They're going to tell me a story how they applied five times, didn't get in. Yeah.

And F Yale. And I'm like, well, thank you. Well, I went and it was a good time for me. Sorry, didn't work out for you. Or they get weird. Like, I don't want to say intimidated, but they get weird around me. And I'm like, no, let's just do the work. We're doing a comedy.

It's fun. Yeah. And then with the singing, they'll find out about the singing. And then it'll be this thing, especially for TV, where they're like, you know, I just think she should probably sing happy birthday. Is it anybody's birthday? You just want me to sing happy birthday. I'm not. I'm not.

So for a long time, I'm always like, this character does not sing. Yeah. So even with High Fidelity, it was a big thing. Yeah. Because they were like, she's a singer. And I was like, I would love to talk about the philosophy of singing and music throughout this entire series sure i do not want to sing huh and then they were like we really need a moment and so i was like i'll give it in the finale and i was like but even then yeah i don't want to really sing it i want to be like she's finding her way as an artist you're gonna pretend

to sing yeah it i don't know it's hard for me it's not as the heartbreak part is over but i don't know i think those those are two very strong worlds to me but now i'm in a space now where i think i might want to merge them but but it wasn't you like didn't you did ghost yeah that was a musical i didn't want to do that either i mean that's singing they duped me into that one yeah yeah they told me i was going to be an understudy of the understudy i would never go on yeah i did the audition. I booked it. And I was like, y'all told me this was for the understudy. And so you're going into this. You're nominated for a Tony, and you're going into this musical thinking, like, I'm not a singer. No, I knew as a singer I was a hurt singer.

Okay. Do you know what I mean? I knew as a singer. I didn't want to sing. So now I'm like, okay, let's work on healing. And how can we bring? They're very separate things in my mind. And I'm a different person as a musician.

Than? As an actor. How so? Then as an actor, how so? I think the discipline element and that conservatorial ship, whatever that word would be. Right.

I have very much so in acting. Yeah. I'm quite like, you know, I need my things and the, yeah, but, uh, I'm very critical with the music.

Huh? How's it like, what do you mean? Acting. I feel like if you're honest, there could be no right or wrong. Okay. Music. Sometimes I'm like,

no, you're flat. You know what I mean? So you're hard on yourself. Very. Right. Very. Because it's,

it's almost like a science. I think it is. Yeah. And then like bring in the freedom, you know what I mean? Yeah. But, but, but you know, something I think a huge part of. And then like bring in the freedom. You know what I mean? Yeah. But,

but, but you know something, I think a huge part of my creative process in general is get the math and the science done first. Yeah. And then we can go have recess. Sure. Right. Yeah. So whether I'm acting,

whether I'm singing, get all the technicalities, the, the dialect, the, you know, the, all the specifics get in the technicalities, the dialect, all the specifics. Get in the body of the performance or the character or the role so you can then be free.

Right. So now you're thinking in terms of how you feel about singing that you're shifting a little bit? I think I want to do a biopic about a singer. Which one? There's a couple that do a biopic about a singer. Which one? There's a couple that's ruminating in my head. I think the story of Sister Rosetta Tharpe is phenomenal. Oh, my God. And no one talks about it.

The best. Right? The best. Those who know, know. Yeah, man. That big SG guitar. And it's so talkky. I've never heard a guitar even sound like that.

No, she's great. And she had the first electric guitar. And she was standing in front of a choir dressed as a choir with that white SG. Do you know that when the Beatles came, the whole British invasion, was the same time she went

to London and invaded them no kidding yeah there's this epic moment where like at this point her career was like pretty much done here and there was a music producer that hit her up and was like i please please come to london and they literally had her do a scene footage of, I've seen footage of this. Right? Where she's at the train station. Yes. So cool. And she was like, I'll do it here. Yeah.

Wild. Yeah, I love watching her. I don't know anything about her. Man, the coolest. Yeah. Has she technically invented the tour bus? Oh, really? Yeah.

So, I mean, like, Ella Fitzgerald, sure. That'd be awesome. As a musician, for me me but I would have to master no kidding Ella's voice right I wouldn't even touch it yeah well that was until I mastered that sound that'd be amazing yeah but Ella's like you know I feel like Ella amazing as it is that's like the very commercial like people know about Ella yeah but and I had put Sister Rosetta like kind of on the back burner like in the back of my mind of, like, yeah, maybe. And then I saw Elvis, and it got me hype.

Sure. That man does a good job with movie musicals. Baz? Yeah, I mean, yeah, for sure. There's a lot going on. A lot of layers. Yeah. It's all very exciting.

Yeah, so I think, like, a Sister Rosetta-like character could potentially, like, give a pack a punch. You wouldn't think it'd be a more interesting, you know, straight-up biopic? Quiet, right? Right. I know. You know she was an amputee at the end of her life? No. Yeah, so there's a version of my mind where you, because I worked when I did.

Amputee? Yeah, man. Later in life? It was like diabetes or something like that. Sure. You know, because back then it was like, well, we got to cut your leg off. Yeah, of course. Still happens.

Yeah, it does. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, I worked or I did Dolomite and I worked with the writers and they're like the biopic gods. Yeah. And they were like very few cradle, like they were saying how Ray was a phenomenon of a true cradle to grave and I was still extremely important, impactful, interesting, held people's interest for that amount of time. But most biopics, you don't do cradle to grave. There's like different motifs.

You can do like a chunk of time. A moment in time. Like you can do the trip to England. Exactly. You can do like the interview style. Right. And flash. Like there's different ways you could do it, but the whole cradle to grave is rare. So she's one that I think is cool. Just, you know, people got to know.

Put people on. Sure. And then, you know, some things where you're like, I'm scared of it, but I know I have to do it. I really want to do Leontyne Price. I don't know if I know her. Man, she's like... I feel bad.

No, no, it's okay. I'm trying to think. She's like the legendary opera singer. Oh. Yeah, Leontyne Price. From the 70s? Yeah, you know of Jesse Norman? Of course.

So she came, like Jesse Norman, that's jesse norman's idol okay yeah what's the time period like late 60s and it's crazy because she was uh around the time of the civil rights movement yeah and i just love this idea of it's sad but i love this idea that this lady couldn't even you know go into a diner and sit at a counter. Sure. And have a slice of pie. And the next day she would literally be on a plane flying to London. Yeah. To dine, not even perform, dine with the Queen of England.

That kind of stuff is crazy. Yeah. And it happened a lot. A lot. A lot with jazz musicians and France. Oh, yeah. You know, and people that just lot. A lot. A lot with jazz musicians and France. Oh, yeah. You know, and people that just respect. For sure.

Just this backward shit country that we have sometimes. Yeah. It's wild. And this idea that. Those are two great ideas because nobody knows about them and they're virtuosos. Yeah. And they should have the respect. Yeah.

So I think that might be a way in which. Did playing Mahalia trigger this? She was on my list. She was on my little... I have this little list. Because it's not like in Rustin, it's not huge. You didn't get to sing enough.

Oh, thank you. George C. Wolfe had called me. I have this little... It's almost like a diary. I have a little list of like, these are the women yeah that i want to play that are musicians yeah um and it's like this little sheet of paper tucked away so when he called me i was like it was like somebody read my diary right i was like what

right how do you know that he's the guy too yeah yeah i've talked to him he's he's something else and when he said they were going to recreate that scene i was like wow wow wow that was spiritual that was deep i think if anything it affirmed in me this is scary to you this is combining two things that you're growing to love. Finally. Yeah. Like lean in. It's scary. It's scary. So that you think that like whatever happens with this this train you're on now.

Right. Towards these award shows that I imagine that coming out of them you'll have more choices. I hope so. And one of them would be

to pursue one of these ideas. I hope so. Yeah. It's an interesting time you know too because um i must be real with you being a woman of color it's a little different for us even too when we are in these positions of being nominated or even potentially winning i mean it's known some people you don't see for a while after like think when holly berry won i know i'm scared a little bit you know so the only thing i'm trying to do and i thank my team for bearing with me is that i'm just kind of like let let me let us do the groundwork so that that doesn't end up being. And I don't know why that happens.

You mean self-generating, like having ideas. Yes. Taking the meetings and like, look, these are the ideas I have. Let's not assume that because of these accolades, people are going to necessarily be banging down our door. Right. People are going to necessarily be banging down our door. Right. So you're thinking about that. Let's be either self-generated or let's meet with these producers, directors, studios and be proactive in it.

Yeah. Because it is a little different. Now, who knows? It may not be the case. Yeah. But I at least want to be prepared. I don't want March 12th to come around. Yeah.

And it's like, well. You're done. Those five months happen. Yeah, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, but it's also my personality. Sure. I'm a very proactive, competitive, you know, if I'm going to do it, I'm going to do it to the best of my ability.

Well, I love those ideas. I mean, like when you think about doing either of those movies. I mean, like when you think about doing either of those movies. And what I love too about Leontyne Price and actually with Cesar Rosetta Tharpe as well, International as well. Of course. And that's huge, right? Yeah. I mean, because.

You got to keep your eye on stuff like that. Yeah. And also there's that idea that like instead of what you were talking about earlier about wrapping your brain around the full arc of a life, you know, you could just have the light, you know, just based around one trip, the experience here and then the experience there. And, you know, and then, you know, kind of backload all the life stuff into that. Yes, exactly. But when you talk about like Rosetta Tharpe, I mean, do you see yourself, you know,

meeting with writers and producers to try and put the movie together? Yeah, there's interest from some people, uh, for sister Rosetta Tharpe in particular. For me, once I know that there's real interest, then that's what I'm like, great.

Then I got to go into the lab. I need to take these nails off. I need to get that guitar going. Yeah. Can you play? I used, cause I had to in school. Yeah.

Right. Right. So I had like in school, right? Right. So I had like high school level proficiency. You know, they're like the music teacher. You'll get it though because it's all about rhythm with her and a couple of these licks that she liked to do. Yeah. And that, you know, there's a thing she was doing. Yeah. It's a blues thing.

Yes. And I bet, you know, you could work it out. Yeah. You could fake it good enough. No, I don't want to fake it. Okay. No, but that's like, you know what I mean? Sure, yeah.

Even with this show, I don't want to fake it. With that movie that I did with Holdover, I don't like faking it. So that's what I'm saying. Once I knew there was something real, then I'd be like, great. Y'all go figure that out. You know what you do? Here's what you do first. Go get yourself a white Gibson SG.

Go get the guitar yeah because you can get one of those they're around Gary Clark Jr. he released the three pickup

but you can probably find one that she just like she played and just get a little amp and start fucking around yeah yeah

I'm telling you it's three chords man yeah and then it's just yeah it's like you know one four five oh man no I'm so excited, it's three chords, man. Yeah, the power chords, right? Yeah, it's like, you know, one, four, five. Oh, man.

No, I'm so excited. Yeah, so that's... Yeah. Well, I hope you do it. Thank you. And I hope you win an Oscar. Oh, thank you. I really appreciate it.

I loved your performance in both those movies, in Rustin and The Holdovers. I really appreciate it. And it's great talking to you. Likewise. The Holdovers. I really appreciate it. And it's great talking to you. Likewise.

There you go. That was fun. Engaged. We talked discus. I've never talked discus. She's up for Best Supporting Actress at the Oscars. You can watch The Holdovers on Peacock. Dig it.

It's winter, and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So, no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats. But meatballs, mozzarella balls, and arancini balls? Yes, we deliver those. Moose? No. But moose head? Yes. Because that's alcohol, and we deliver that too.

Along with your favorite restaurant food, groceries, and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing.

With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. People, we all know that we should be saving and investing, but it's always overwhelming,

which is why I was excited when Acorns reached out to sponsor today's episode. Because let's be real, investing can be intimidating. So intimidating that sometimes it feels easier just to push it off. If you can identify with that, Acorns might be just a thing to kick you into gear. Acorns helps you automatically save and invest for your future. You don't need a lot of money to get started. You can even start by investing your spare change with the roundups feature. Sometimes the hardest part of doing something new is just getting started.

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If you haven't listened to my talk with John from last week, go check it out. It's a fun ride for real. Good times. So are you out doing a road show with Seth Meyers? No. I went out for the first time in a long time during the strike. I got to go out because I had to pay the staff. So I just ran all over the place doing gigs.

Yeah, stand-up for the first time in a long time, packed together. I try and do it at least once a year, but you know. Yeah. You know.

Yeah. That's not enough. Yeah. So I got to do it for months. So you brought a variety show on the road? You had a figure? No, no, no.

Just me. Okay. Just me. And then. What did you do, a Q&A? No, stand-up. Okay. Oh, boy.

God, you know how to hurt. I'm actually having to change the way I sit. That hurts so much. God. That's a fucking precision strike. What do you do a Q&A? Because I agree with you. That's a...

I'm sorry. No, no. It's not really... Sorry. You got me. You got no. It's not really... Sorry. You got me. You got me. You just said you've got to do it more than once a year. I ran around clubs quickly.

I did an hour and a half of standing. I promise. There's no fucking Q&A. It's all A. Your Qs are not involved here. Okay, good. And it's a valid question, and it wounded to be asked it.

Sorry. A Q&A. The Cowards Entertainment. That's me and John Oliver on last week's WTF. And you can watch John on last week tonight, this Sunday on HBO. Guitar time. Another variation of a similar thing. Here we go. This is my voice.

This is my voice through my go. This is my voice. This is my voice through my guitar. This is my style. These are the chords I enjoy. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. guitar solo ¶¶ Boomer lives. Monkey and the F of cat angels everywhere