WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1513 - Mark Ruffalo

Episode Date: February 19, 2024

Before Mark Ruffalo became the Hulk, he deeply understood what it felt like to be two people in the same skin. A high school wrestler and a member of the drama club, a surfer and a punk rocker, a person with a family history of bipolarity. Mark and Marc talk about how he used this duality in many of his roles, including his Oscar-nominated turn in Poor Things. They also talk about his recent testimony to Congress, his fear of doing SNL, and the terrifying health scare that turned his life upside down just as his career was taking off. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

It's hockey season, and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So, no, you can't get an ice rink on Uber Eats. But iced tea, ice cream, or just plain old ice? Yes, we deliver those. Gold tenders, no. But chicken tenders, yes. Because those are groceries, and we deliver those, too.

Along with your favorite restaurant food, alcohol, and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing.

With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative.

It's a night for the whole family. Be a part of Kids Night when the Toronto Rock take on the Colorado Mammoth at a special 5 p.m. start time on Saturday, March 9th at First Ontario Centre in Hamilton. The first 5,000 fans in attendance will get a Dan Dawson bobblehead courtesy of Backley Construction. Punch your ticket to Kids Night on Saturday, March 9th at 5 p.m. in Rock City at torontorock.com. Death is in our air. This year's most anticipated series, FX's Shogun, only on Disney+.

We live and we die. We control nothing beyond that. An epic saga based on the global best-selling novel by James Clavel. To show your true heart is to risk your life. Will I die here? You'll never leave Japan alive. FX's Shogun, a new original series streaming February 27th exclusively on Disney+. 18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply.

Hey, folks. Having your own website is a great way to get yourself out there and squarespace makes it even easier with squarespace member areas so you can give premium access to your most devoted users there's also the squarespace video studio and the squarespace email campaigns to help you deliver the best of whatever you have to offer we've been using Squarespace to run WTFpod.com, so go check that out if you want to see a website powered by Squarespace. Head to Squarespace.com slash WTF for a free trial, and when you're ready to launch, use the offer code WTF

to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. That's Squarespace.com slash WTF. All right, let's do the show. All right, let's do this. How are you? What the fuckers? What the fuck buddies? What the fuck next? What's happening? What's going on? How are we doing? Big week here for actors and Oscar-nominated talent. Yeah, it's a big week here. We're doing three episodes this week. Today, I'm going to talk to Mark Ruffalo, who's great. He's great in that role, man. I don't know if you saw Poor Things, but he's astounding.

It is one of the most brilliant comic roles I've ever seen in my life. And I liked the guy. He's a great actor. Always good. Always has his own time zone. Always has his own groove, his own pace. And has pretty big range, you know, from the sweetest, saddest to the Hulk, who I think arguably is sweet and sad as well.

Maybe sweet and sad is his groove. But it was kind of amazing to talk to him today. He was obviously in the poor things. He's been in Zodiac, Spotlight, Foxcatcher. You can count on me. And he's the Hulk. He's the good Hulk. He's the best Hulk. He's the best Hulk.

But that doesn't, on Wednesday, we're doing a special show. Well, it's not special. It's just an additional show with America Ferrara. On Thursday, I talked to Rodrigo Prieto.

That's the cinematographer for Killers of the Flower Moon and Barbie and many more. First time I've had a cinematographer on, I believe. Thorough cinematography conversation. Amazing conversation. Big week.

Today, Ruffalo. Wednesday, Ferrara. And Thursday, Prieto, whose name I've mispronounced in many different places. But man, what a great talk that was. But this is today. This is where we're at today. Today,, what a great talk that was. But this is today. This is where we're at today. Today, Monday, this is what's happening. I'm sweating in my garage. I've been

at it for a while. I recorded this yesterday. I did the guitar. I did an Instagram live forever, which kind of loosens up my brain. I haven't really been doing them for over a month, but gets me in the zone of talking. Had some revelations, had some revelations in conversation with the three or 400 people that were hanging out until I played guitar and that turned to 150 people. I don't know how many people have looked at it. Now, it doesn't really matter. Sometimes I use it to engage the brain, engage it in talking. Sometimes I use it to engage the brain, engage it in talking. And I don't know what's been going on with you, but I have this broken foot and I think it's getting better.

I'm trying very hard not to fuck it up more. I'm wearing the boot. I got two boots. I told you that. Switching them out so they don't get stinky. I'm not on any medicine because I'm not feeling any pain. I have been pumping the calcium because I thought, why not? Why not hit the calcium a little harder?

And I don't do much research on the supplements. I'm just always thought like, you know, calcium bones, right? So have the calcium. And I get this calcium magnesium. It's a thousand MGs, milligrams, I guess that would be, a day. And I swear to God, I don't know if it's healing my bone any quicker. And I don't know if this is even something calcium is supposed to do, but it's changed my entire digestive system. Is that possible?

Am I making that up? I mean, yes, I'm vegan. And I never was really a big dairy person. I always felt like dairy, to me, dairy is like sludge, whether it's in the form of cheese, Greek yogurt, milk, cream, ice cream, which I like. I mean, there's obviously some dairy things I like, but I've always just pictured it as like, I picture cheese to be the exact same consistency in your arteries. That's just the way I pictured it. But I do know that for some reason, taking the calcium has shifted something and I like it.

Now I'm sure I'll get some feedback. I'm sure I'll get a lot of plus and minus feedback. Be careful with the calcium. It can grow another head. Be careful with the calcium. It can grow another head. Be careful with the calcium. All your joints will seize up. Be careful with the calcium. That's worse than cheese in your heart. I don't know. I don't know. You know, when you do research on this stuff, there's two sides to it all the time, but I do know physically something has shifted and I'd like some feedback on that am I making that up

am I being crazy and also the doc said that I'm healing quicker than usual but I'm still worried that I'm gonna like I was doing something the other night you know the thing you do at night and my you know it's a little more difficult when you have a broken foot and it's in a boot to do the the thing at night you know with your, you know, I felt like something tweak and I'm like, fuck man, if I rebroke this foot, fucking, I'm going to be a little upset, a little upset. And then I'll have to look at it in relation to like, was that fucking worth the broken foot? Was that fucking worth the surgery? Right? I don't know. Too crass? TMI? right? I don't know. Too crass TMI. It just happened. I cramped up. So arguably if I, if I do need surgery, the fucking was not the worth the fucking I was going to get with the

surgery, right? Anyway, listen to me, listen to me. I have tour dates. Let's start here in Los Angeles. I added some more, uh, LA dates. I'm back at Largo on Wednesday, February 28th, and the Elysian on Thursday, February 29th. Portland, Maine, I'm at the State Theater on Thursday, March 7th. Hopefully, I'll be out of the boot. Medford, Massachusetts at the Chevalier Theater on Friday, March 8th. Providence, Rhode Island at the Strand Theater on Saturday, March 9th. Tarrytown, New York at the Tarrytown Music Hall on Sunday, March 10th. Those shows are nearing sellout except for Providence. So, you know, it's good. There's a good number of tickets sold for Providence, but it's a much bigger place than I played last time. I'm just hipping you to

that, Providence. Atlanta, Georgia, I'm at the Buckhead Theater on Friday, March 22nd. That's close to sold out. Boise, Idaho, just added. I'm at the Egyptian Theater on Friday, March 22nd. That's close to sold out. Boise, Idaho, just added. I'm at the Egyptian Theater on Saturday, March 23rd as part of Comedy Fort at the Tree Fort Music Fest. Madison, Wisconsin at the Barrymore Theater on Wednesday, April 3rd. Milwaukee, Wisconsin at the Turner Hall Ballroom on Thursday, April 4th. Chicago at the Vic Theater on Friday, April 5th. Minneapolis at the Pantages Theater on Saturday, April 6th. Austin, Texas at the Paramount Theater on Thursday, April 18th as part of the Moon Tower Comedy Festival. You can go to WTFpod.com slash tour for more tickets for the dates coming up later in the year.

I can't read all of them. It'd take up the entire show. But why don't you do that if you want to come see me? As always, in my mind, this could be the last tour. And in the sense that I'm thinking about things, I'm thinking about my place in the world, and I'm right on the edge of, I've got no reason to be anything but grateful for the way my life has gone so far.

It's not that it came easy. It's not that, you know, I didn't work my ass off and continue to work my ass off. It's not that I'm not satisfied in a lot of ways with my life, but you know, you get a little older, you get to, I mean, maybe this is 60, I don't know, but you get to this point where you're teetering on that fine line between sort of reflection, realization, perception of who you are at this point in my life, and just a hint of self-pity, which is very unattractive. So I'm not going to say I'm feeling sorry for myself. I'm not going to say I'm being nostalgic, but I am sort of trying to be honest and reflective with myself. And I think it's happening and it's not great. Not a great feeling. Like there's something going on with me where like, okay, for instance, I was going to buy an apartment in New York. Now, when I was coming up as a comic and as somebody who was spending time in both cities, it was really a mark of some sort of success or tremendous life if you had a place

in both Los Angeles and New York. So recently in thinking about where I want to spend my last years, which is not an impractical way to think at 60. What do I want to do with the rest of it? I've worked hard my entire fucking life, despite what anyone thinks of this particular job or the job and show business. But I have a type of exhaustion in my bones. It's real and it's earned and it's not unusual. But I don't do vacations much. If you can sit in here and think about it with me,

if you've been with me for a long time, how many times have I really taken a vacation? Definitely not once a year and definitely not for very long. And a lot of them were quite stressful for one reason or another. It's just not my bag, the vacation, just keep chipping away. So now I've chipped away since I was 21, 22 years old, maybe a little younger in a very real way with, uh, if it wasn't hands-on work, there was enough stress and, um, activity and creative juice spent that is all part of the job. And it has all, you know, dug, you know, soaked deep into my bones, the, the, the type of, of, of exhaustion that happens naturally along with age. So when I was looking at the apartment

in New York, I was really like gung-ho and, you know, thank God the place just didn't work out for a couple of different reasons. There was no limit on the amount of time it would take to renovate the place that I was thinking about getting. It could have been up to two years, really, practically speaking, before I could even move into it. And then I'm thinking like, well, I'm going to be 62, 63 years old. And my fantasy was I'll be in New York. It'll be amazing. There'll be people all around. I'll be able to eat like easily and just walk across the street. I'll hang out with friends. I'll go to shows. I'll go see jazz. I'll go to museums. And then there was that moment where like, I lived there for years and I didn't do any of those

things. And who am I really? How many friends do I really have? When you are a solo guy-ish, you know, it's like everyone's got a life. Everyone's got their own life. You can't just sort of parachute in to a world and be like, what are you doing, man? Let's take a walk. What's going on? Let's go hang out at the coffee shop for three hours. I still can live that life to a degree. I don't do it because I have a house. But then I started to think like, dude, if you were 40, 35, this would be something. I don't even like doing comedy in New York City that much anymore. So what am I really doing? And then I realized that, well, that's fantasy, Mark. And that fantasy has been in place for a long time. And I think we all have these fantasy versions of ourselves that we see moving through a world that we're creating

or an idea that we have about our future that is relieving and exciting and you can see it unfold and there are moments. And I've sort of dealt with this in material before about moving to the country or whatever, tell me what do I do on the third day? But your vibe and your groove and your frequency changes as you get older. And I just started to realize like,

you know, the possibility for extraordinary type of aggravated loneliness and reflection in New York city would have been profound in that the version of me that was living there in my mind was not who I am now. And it was kind of a weird realization to have. And I'm having it about a lot of things. I'm having this sort of what they term in the recovery racket as like some sort of convulsion of right-sizedness in relation to my comedy career, in relation to what I've given to the world,

in relation to my peers and all that stuff. And like getting right-sized around all that stuff in terms of kind of contracting the ego a bit to figure out what is fantasy. And then there's delusions. There are these things that you sort of hang on to that you think, you know, from early on in your life, like, you know, well, I'm still working towards this. This can still happen. You know, whatever it is after a certain point, you're like, dude, that's a, that's a little delusional. I mean, not that that delusion didn't help you get to where you were going and where you ended up, but you know, to think about it specifically, it's a little delusional to think that, you know, somehow or another, I'm going to change the way I do comedy.

To think that somehow or another I'm going to change the way I do comedy so it has broader appeal, which sort of is part of my brain and is delusional. Because I've done the best I can to have broader appeal without trying, but I insist in my mind that my comedy is so broad. But see, that's delusional. I do a specific thing that is rarefied in a way, and it's uniquely mine. And I was thinking about my last two specials, and I'm like, that's the best I can do, man. You know, even the one before that, even more later. I mean, this is the top of my game. You know, all of the artists that I've respected in my life outside of massive music acts have been sort of the specific types and you find your world and you work in that world and you express yourself as freely as possible and in the way you want.

And that's what you do. You can't really change that. I'm talking to myself right now. So don't be a delusional fuck you fuck, let it go. Contract the ego, see where you are. You've done an amazing thing with the podcast, with your comedy, with all this stuff. Just be grateful that you landed on your feet and that you're still contributing creatively to the world in conversation, both as a standup and as a podcaster, as an actor. And I'm like, all right, well, thanks, Mark. Thanks. Thanks for saying that. But it is still, you know, I am, you know, I do see myself, I'm slightly, I don't know if you guys picked up on this. I'm a little self-centered.

And I think that a lot of what's going on in my mind with everything in the world has something to do with me somehow, but it doesn't. And you got to really fucking know that. So now, like, I've kind of shifted. I'm sort of like excising the delusions and the fantasies to be more practical about entering this phase of my life. And, you know, we'll see, we'll see. I'm okay. But, but, and I'm not feeling sorry for myself again. I'm very grateful for everything that's happened for all you people. But, you know, there's just that part of you that's sort of living in another world. And sometimes that world is exactly the one you want to live in.

And sometimes it's almost that. And that's where you run into trouble, right? It's the, I'm almost, no, dude, you're there, right? It's like, you know, when you say things like, I just got to figure this out. Figure what out? It's happening now. This is it, man. This is it. You're looking down the barrel at the last few and you know, what are you going to do with that?

You know, yeah. Don't pull the trigger. Try to find it. Is there a way to enjoy myself? Not according to my brain, not according to my brain. Anytime I have a few moments of relaxed self-contentment and, and, and, and, uh, uh, peace, my brain just sort of like, well, what about this? You idiot. Why'd you do that? How's that? You know, what's wrong with you? So my imagination untethered, as I've said before, is not working in my favor. Maybe I can shift that.

Anyways, stay in the present. Is that the point? Can you dig it? So look, Mark Ruffalo is here, and I didn't know what to expect, but we had a great time. He bounded up to my front door, and he's like, you're a wild man. And I'm like, what does that even mean? You know, and he was just all juiced up and he was excited.

And that made me excited. Again, he's in the movie Poor Things, as you know. He's nominated for Best Supporting Actor at the Academy Awards for that movie. And that's playing in theaters. And that's a wild movie. But this is a great time. Here is me talking to Mark Ruffalo.

You can get anything you need with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get an ice rink on Uber Eats. But iced tea and ice cream? Yes, we can deliver that. Uber Eats. Get almost, almost anything. Order now.

Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. Death is in our air. This year's most anticipated series, FX's Shogun, only on Disney+. We live and we die. We control nothing beyond that. An epic saga based on the global best-selling novel

by James Clavel. To show your true heart is to risk your life. When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive. FX's Shogun, a new original series streaming February 27th, exclusively on Disney+. 18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. I have a little tiny office and it's just literally just, there's nowhere to set anything anymore.

Yeah, yeah, but it feels nice, right? Oh my God, it's my stuff. Where is it? It's in New York. In the city? Yeah. So you go in and it's all of it. Yeah.

From your whole life. It's little pieces from my whole life. Have you had that moment where you're like, what am I going to do with this? Yeah, like I can't. Well, it's like, should I sort of pick something up? And you're like, should I? Maybe I need to clean up a little bit. You're like, I can't throw that away.

I know. That's my kid's second grade art project. Like, that's my kids, like, you know, second grade art project. Yeah, right. Well, that's the thing is, like, I think, I mean, I'm a little older than you, but you get this moment where you're like, does this mean anything anymore? You know, where, like, there's just stuff I have where, yeah, it's a memory, but I don't know, not loaded anymore. No.

I know. But those are, like, yearly. It's, like, one thing a year. I know, but I Not loaded anymore. No. I know. Those are like yearly. It's like one thing a year. I know, but I never get rid of it. There's an attic in this structure with stuff up there. I think I still have boxes of tax papers from 1995. Remember when we used to save that? You probably have your Thomas guide in there too.

There's a Thomas guide up there, sure. There's a lot of different recording devices. Oh, the mini disc? Sure, mini disc. That was late. I mean, I've probably got those. Oh, the mini-discs? Sure, mini-discs. That was late. I mean, I've probably got those Walkman, you know, those handheld cassette players. Have those, too. I've got a box of cassettes.

I still do. Of my sets, yeah. That's amazing. Of music? Of music. Yeah. Of music. And I have an old boombox.

When I'm in my little studio, I listen to that. I love that. I love the hiss. It's like time travel. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. I love the hiss. It's like time travel. Yeah. I love it. It's comforting to me now, man. Digital's like, has an intensity to it.

Too clean. Yeah. It's very, it just doesn't have that kind of soft warmth to it. Are you a record guy now? A bit, yeah. But it's, yeah. I've got like 2,000 in there. You do?

In my house. You know, you start, and I've got that personality. You can't get rid of those, man. No, and you can't. Well, the thing that was brought to my attention, I didn't realize, it's like, the reason why records were bad is when you had to move. I mean, that's a whole truck of records.

A whole truck. And they weigh hundreds of pounds. Yeah, I was going to say, man, one crate is like... Oh, it's crazy. Buddy, I know you didn't move yourself. No, I don't know what I'm going to do with all that shit because I'm going to move eventually

again you're going to have to get a bigger plane no no I got to get smaller you can't take it with you Mark no you can't that's why you have it here

so you came up you said as a wild man why do you think that I just heard your I hear your podcast and I just love you know you don't

get in it you don't fuck around. You're like right in the soup. I know. Hard in the paint. Well, look, I'll be honest with you. I was in a hotel room the other night doing a show, I don't know, San Diego somewhere, and that movie with Jennifer Gardner came on. What is it, 13?

13 going on 30. And, you know, because I knew I was going to interview her, and I'm like, oh, my God, he's been doing this a long time. A long, long time. A long time. And she was with you at your star thing? Yeah. Because I saw a picture.

Yeah, man. So you guys are still friends? Yeah, yeah. That hardly ever happens. Hardly ever. I know, but she's like so nice, right? She's the best. Really?

Yeah. You know, I've been really lucky. But she's so nice, right? She's the best. Really? Yeah. I've been really lucky. I've had some really quality people come through my life and hang out. Oh, yeah.

Not hit and run too much. But there's a lot of hit and run. I always assume that actors, and I've done some acting, and I know it's not true, that after the show's done, it's like, all right, maybe we'll see each other again in a decade. At an awards ceremony. If you're lucky. Yeah. Or at home watching it on TV going, fuck.

That fucker. Not again. Yeah. How many does he need? Yeah. Spread it around. Yeah. But, oh, but I was going to say, this year, though, I mean, and I'm not flattering you.

I think this is your year, buddy. Sound effect. You got to think about that, right? Yeah, I mean. It's hard not to. You're just a person. Yeah, yeah. You don't get a lot of chances.

I mean, you know. I know. I mean, I'm lucky I got the chances I have. You have. Well, you've got some good nominations. But this one, you know, I watched, I'm lucky I got the chances. Yeah, you have. Well, you've got some good nominations, but this one, you know, I watched that movie and I saw it in the theater and that character is so good. It's so good, dude. What a character. I mean, because it's hilarious, but pathetic and the charm is so like paper thin. It's how did you, like, how do you put that

together? Oh man. Did you like, did you work with together? Oh, man. Did you work with Yorgos? I've talked to him. He's an interesting guy. Did he have ideas? Or is he just one of those guys? He doesn't like to... We never talked about the character.

Never? Never. You just read it and you're like, I know this guy. Well, it took me a while. And to be totally honest with you, I rely a lot on my dreams to kind of like. Come on, really? Yeah, to kind of like give me ideas. You remember them long enough?

You write them down? Yeah, I write them down. So what was delivered to you? There was this very kind of macho. His name was Ricardo Mountain. Yeah. In your dream? Yeah.

He had a name? Yeah. And he was this very suave. I mean, Ricardo Mountain says it all. Yeah, sure. And, you know, he was just this very suave. He was like a porn director. Right, yeah, yeah, yeah, of course, with that name.

Yeah, and so, you know, these things just, you kind of get another input that's outside of your conscious mind. Yeah, yeah, yeah, right, yeah. And you just rolled with it. Yeah, I'm like, and then it's daydreaming. It's a script. You know, that script. I mean, you know. It's crazy.

You know, at the risk of sounding immodest, you've just been thrice fucked by the very best. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, who says that? That's a certain kind of person. Yeah, yeah. Who can say that? I mean, we might have thought it. Yeah, yeah. But who's been able to do it three times?

Yeah, exactly. And believe it. Believe in himself in that way. But that was the beautiful thing about it. There's this fundamental weird insecurity about it. He's the most insecure person in the world. He's like all these guys walking around, you know? They're all puffed up

in a little pin and they're you know, they just deflate. And there were so many deflations in that movie. So many. Just over and over again. I know. Like the dance scene.

Jesus Christ. Oh, my God, man. Now, like, as an actor guy who's, you know, you've done enough stage and stuff, I mean, that must have been just spectacular. Oh. How many, like, to find the comedy in that, that sort of panic of embarrassment, and then having to match her and try to dominate her and then try to catch up to her. And at the end says, you and I are both creatures of freedom.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he's just totally panicked. Totally freaked out. Yeah. Totally over his head. But you knew, like, I know it's a weird question about that, but you knew it was, I mean, that character is a comedic character. Yeah. Right?

Yeah. But you don't, like, and I ask this all the time because I don't know, really, I have a hard time just getting out of myself, but at some point you're playing comedic beats, right? You know that this has to be funny. Yes. You're not playing it totally straight. No, no, you can't.

But my north star of acting is one foot on a banana peel and the other in the grave. Oh, really? Yeah. I think that's when it's just humming. Yeah. I think that's when it's just so exciting. But you've done some pretty serious shit. Yeah, I don't get much banana peel. Maybe just serious shit. Yeah, I don't get much banana peel.

Maybe just a little banana peel? I don't get enough banana peel. I try to find banana peel wherever it's possible. But do you, like, I mean, because there's not a ton of comedies. You never did any real broad comedies, did you? No, not really. But there's been things along the way that have been, you know, like 13 Going on 30. Yeah, that's cute.

Yeah, it's cute. Yeah. But there's Infinitely Polar Bear where I'm playing a bipolar character who's raising his two mixed race daughters in the 70s by himself. Oh, my God. What's that movie? I got to see that movie. Infinitely Polar Bear. When did you do that?

It's one of my favorite things. That was, God, that was maybe six years ago. Who directed it? Maya Forbes. Yeah. It was Wally Wally Darsky and Maya Forbes wrote it.

They're comedy writers. Yeah. But it was her life story and it is hilarious and funny and moving and sad at places. Well, bipolar is, you know, it's funny half the time. Good times, half the time. If you at places. Well, bipolar is, you know,

it's funny half the time. Good times, half the time. If you're lucky. Yeah, yeah. Maybe it's just like fleeting weeks of excitement. I know all about it.

You do? Yeah. From doing that movie or from your life? Just from my life, yeah. You got the bipolar in your life? I have some,

yeah, bipolar and bipolar 2. In the family? Mm-hmm. Oh, and you dodged it? Not exactly. I've got the watered-down version. I don't get the ups, just the lows, you know?

I'm actually the same way. You know, when you live with a sort of mild depression long enough, you just negotiate with it. What else can you do? You manage it. Yeah, you're sort of like, What else can you do? You manage it. Yeah. You're sort of like, well, this isn't real, but it feels bad. It still seems real.

Yeah. But I used to get these little manias that lasted two days. And I'd be like, is this going to stick? No, you didn't get that. It doesn't stick. And then you just drink a lot of coffee and try to get it back. Yeah. Yeah. It's crazy.

I know. It's like you just never are in solid ground. Who was bipolar? Oh, man. Doesn't matter. It's a long list. I don't want to out anybody.

It just travels through the lineage. Yeah, I think it's, you know, looking back before it was even a thing,

really, before people even knew what they were talking about, I see. I see the footprints of it going back. Well, that's the weird thing is you do, because my old man's got the

depression problem, but his mother, who I knew briefly, my grandmother, was just always worried all the time and panicky and miserable. I know all about it, man. Yeah, and you're like, that was what it was. And now, you're like, oh, that's. I know all about it, man. Yeah. And you're like, that was what it was. And now, you're like, oh, that's what that was. Right.

I just thought she was just really cranky all the time or just so depressed. I mean, she would cry at the most happy experiences. She'd burst into tears. I'm like, why are you crying? I'm so happy. And then you can at least track it, you know? Well, I'm like, well, I know. She was the only one that I knew that was alive.

Your grandma? Yeah, and it is a family disease, you know? Like all those diseases. It is. It is. It's a double diagnosis. Well, yeah, and addiction, all that shit. Dude, it's all hand in hand.

Like, you know, I've been on and off nicotine for years. And I can't, like, and now, like, I was off, I don't smoke anymore, obviously. Do you chew the gum? Well, I chewed the gum. I was on the lozenge. Downy. Yeah, does he? He's a gum guy.

Oh, God. All the time. Oh, my God. Yeah. He chain chews gum. So when he's, like, you know, when he's not on set, it's just stuck there somewhere, and he puts it in his pocket. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He has a little package, and he puts it back back in there and he cracks the next blister back.

I know what that's about, man. I just got introduced to those non-tobacco nicotine pouches. What is that? Like you put it in your mouth? It's like a pouch. It's like a little pouch. Yeah, it's like a little tube. Yeah, but it's like a dip, but it's no tobacco.

It's just this white powder. I think it's just shards of glass that poke into your gum and deliver nicotine. Oh, the little needles. Yeah, exactly. That's what it's like. And yesterday, I bought six milligrams for the first time, and I was nervous. I mean, 6MG. Yeah, 6MG, man. I put it in, and I was like, start to sweat. And you're like, oh, here it comes.

Did you feel a little nauseous? Of course. Yeah. But that's part of the experience. You just got to ride it out. Yeah. Wait for the hum. And then after that, you're like, oh, I can't wait to get that again.

Yeah. I'm going to wait a few hours. To really make it last. Fucking nightmare. I know. But you get to a certain age where you're like, you know what? Some of these things aren't going to change. Have you hit that wall where you're like, there's things about Some of these things aren't going to change. You can't, like, have you hit that wall

where you're like, there's things about myself that aren't great, but. Are you joking? I've hit so many walls. Really? I mean, you know, 56 now. Yeah. Everything's changed.

You know, it's all falling apart faster than you can put it back together now. I know, I broke my foot and I'm like, is this the beginning? Is it? I know. Right, what's going to break me? Do you sleep through the night?

What do you mean? Do I pee all night? Yeah. I can't get back to sleep. Literally, it's like two hours every night. I try to. Like, yeah, I do the peeing a couple times. Oh, yeah.

Two, three. That's fun. Two or three times. That's fun. Yeah. What about airplanes? I mean, how fun is that? In what way?

You just have to get up when everyone's like, you can't get up anymore. Or when you don't pee in the airport and you're on the plane. That's exactly what I'm saying. When you're waiting to take off and they're like, please stay seated. You're the guy that gets up before the seatbelt signs up and they have to warn you. It's still on. I know. I know.

We really don't want you to do it, but we can't stop. You're going to roll the dice. It's not going to go down while I'm pissing. So you've got a lot of these little things that kind of you live with. Yeah, I mean. But you never did the booze or anything. No, no. That's good.

But I'm a friend of the friend of Bill W. Oh, yeah. I'm in the other program. I've done that. I've done that program. Yeah. It's a good program. It'm in the other program. I've done that. I've done that program. Yeah. It's a good program. It's probably the best one.

It's the emotional sobriety part. Yeah, where, you know, the detach with love thing. Man, rough, rough. It's so rough. It goes against everything we think about love. I know, but the detaching with love, it's really hard to remove the fuck you out of it. I know, it is, man.

At what point does it flip over to fuck off? But then you're back in the game. I swear it's detaching with love. I swear, HP. It's detaching with love. And HP's like, is it? You seem to be seething. Yeah.

You seem to be pretty thrilled about it. Yeah. It's hard, man. It's hard. It's really hard. I do a bit on stage where I was in one relationship where what's interesting about that program that I didn't realize about. Like, look, if you're a codependent, you're a codependent. It's just wired for that, right?

But someone once said that that program, I talk about program all the time, but that Al-Anon is for people who want to stay. that program, I talk about program all the time, but that Al-Anon is for people who want to stay. And, you know, I mean, if it's family, you don't have a choice. If it's spouse, you do have a choice, but, but it's not essentially, you know, treating just codependency. It's like, how do you live with the fuck that, you know, is, I mean, yeah, but that's what it's about. The whole thing is about staying. I know. And it's like that part of it. I went to a men's meeting when I was breaking up with some woman. And I say, I had no choice. I had to go because I would have engaged. It would have been a disaster.

So I went to this men's meeting. It was just 200 alpha doormats. I've been there. Oh, yeah. Just these big guys like, dude, you got to detach. You're like, wow. Finding the heart. Yeah.

You, wow. You're telling me. This is a, those rooms are. Heavy. It's heavy. And it's beautiful. I mean. It totally is.

And it's hilarious. Totally. A lot of the time. Oh, God. Yeah, yeah. I never laugh so hard as hearing someone else telling your story. I know. But backwards.

Yeah, it's the best. And so much more hardcore. Well, there's something about narrative, because I found it must be helpful too, in acting too, if you do those meetings enough, you engage with a story where you know that it's going to come out the end

with some recovery, but it's a harrowing story. Yes. And there's beats to it. Like anytime you check into that that those rooms you know that you're going to be carried through this narrative that's going to be partially your story but you also know if they're in there the ending's going to be at least that happy yeah that that they're in there and it's pretty sad totally a lot of times

oh my god it's so heavy it's so heavy It's so heavy. It's so heavy. But do you draw from stuff like that? Do you draw from people? I don't know. Because I don't know how much of acting is sort of like an emotional vocabulary of not mimicking but a type of empathy that enables you to

kind of wear it. I think it's all compassion and empathy. I mean, for me. Yeah. I mean, even when you're playing a guy like, I mean, I think what you respond to in Duncan, like Duncan can be played just straight across the board, pretty much that way.

The guy in Poor Things? Yeah, yeah. And to drop down into that, really drop down into his sort of insecurity and and he becomes empathetic sure you know yeah there's a couple of things horrible narcissist well that's why it's where it's because you do feel empathy for him yeah wow i just realized the bipolar must have helped with the hulk little bit. Buddy, these doublings keep showing up in my life all the time. I mean, I'm always playing these like dual

people that have one side and then another side and the Hulk is like the you know, just the absolute clear manifestation of that. Yeah, yeah. And you approach that with humanness. Yeah.

You try. I mean, that's what we hold on to in films, you know? I mean, you only can do a bit for so long.

Yeah. I mean, bits are fun and just pure comedy works really well, you know? But I'm always looking for that a little bit

deeper cut. Have you hosted SNL? No. Why not? I'm scared. They've offered it to you? No. Why not? I'm scared. They've offered it to you? Yeah. I'll never be asked back.

No? Well, I don't think Lorne Michaels likes when you say no. Well, yeah, well, I guess not. But no, so what about that?

I mean, you've done theater? Just scared the living shit out of me. I don't know. Huh. I don't know. It's not the live thing, is it?'t know it was uh it's it's not the live thing is it i think it was it's a live thing like reading off a cue card that's hard it scares me yeah i'm i'm i'm dyslexic i'm not gonna lie yeah i'm you don't lie on this show yeah so so i'm really dyslexic like how

dyslexic like i'll just get i'll lose where i'm at on a page you know and and you know I'm just when I hear about how that show works and they're changing things at the last second and I want to be good on it man I've been watching that

my whole life and like I don't want to be the guy who's the host who sucks on Saturday Night Live you know like I owe

Warren Michaels more than that you know well are you one of those people that you can memorize the shit like pretty much quick Saturday Night Live, you know? No. Like, I owe Warren Michaels more than that, you know? Well, are you one of those people that you can memorize this shit, like, pretty much quick? No, that's the other thing. Like, I have the double whammy.

Like, I'm dyslexic and I have a hard time memorizing stuff. Like, I have to start so early. With any script? Yeah. Oh, my God. Yeah. But that's not part of the dyslexia. That's just you. Right?

It's just me. That's one of those things that you were talking about. You can't do anything about the memory. No, what am I going to do? Ginkgo. Now it's wasabi. I chase all the memory shit. You try?

I try everything. Yeah. I've tried everything across the board. So what happens? How many times do you read, how many times you read the script? Uh, well, you know, the most important readings like that first one and, and just, and just like immerse, see the way I read, I literally for a one hour of, you know, 60 page script, 90 page script, it takes me like four hours to read it. Right. Okay. Well, so that's

interesting because your dyslexia enables you a type of concentration. Yes. That other people don't have. Yes, and I fall, I have to envision every single scene. Like, I have to like see it. Yeah, yeah. To understand where I'm at, you know? Right, right, right.

So it takes me longer than the movie, if you sat down and watched the movie, to read it. To read it. So it's a blessing, you know, it's like down and watched the movie, to read it. To read it. So it's a blessing. You know, it's like all these things. They're blessings and they're curses. Well, that's wild because so that means in order just to process the words, you know, you've got to attach the feelings. And it takes, you know, it's like a full immersive experience. Totally.

I'm living in it. If I'm reading a book, I can't, like, read a script at the same time. Otherwise, I start mixing up the worlds, you know? Yeah. And you have to see yourself in everything, I guess. Kind of. I mean, you know, that first read is so essential because it's the first time. It's coming to you so fresh.

Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And if you can, and you end up like playing that first read. I mean, in a lot of ways, all the information, all of the spontaneity of that first read, all of your like the imagination kicking off all these connections, that ends up being the most informative read of the entire thing. Yeah, yeah. And then would you just kind of then go scene to scene and lock in?

Yeah, yeah. Once you do the read, you got it in your head? Yes, then I'll go back and I'll do scene to scene. Sometimes, you know, you want to know where you came from and where you're going in a scene. Dude, that is the hardest thing about shooting. Yes. It's like, all right, so this is nine days before

you were bleeding. Yes. And then you ran away from the explosion and you run into this room and, you know, it's just, you really have to keep a handle on that.

I think that's the only reason you need a director or a script supervisor is because you're like, what happened? Where are we? Where were we? Where was this?

Okay, wait, wait, wait. Right, right, right. Okay, okay. Oh my God. Yeah, but do you ever watch yourself and go like, I didn't know. All the time. I can't.

I mean, literally, I'm watching myself, and I'm just sinking down in a chair. But no one knows but you. I hope so. Where did you grow up? Kenosha, Wisconsin. Do you go back there? I do. My dad lives there.

My sister lives there. Your dad lives there now? Yeah. Oh, my God. Kenosha, Wisconsin. Do you go back there? I do. My dad lives there. My sister lives there. Your dad lives there now? Yeah. Oh my God. Kenosha, Wisconsin. Yeah. I don't have no sense of that. I know Madison. I know Milwaukee. It's a little bit like Milwaukee, except it was a factory town. Right. It was the hub of all manufacturing in the United States around the turn of the century. So there's a lot of- Immigrants. Oh, so- All the immigrants went there.

Is that where the Italian comes from? Yeah, the Italian. All this, you know, it was a huge Calabrian, Sicilian community there. Polish, Irish. Have you done that tracking? Have you tracked it back? Yeah, yeah, because I'm getting my Italian citizenship because the shit's about to hit the fan. I applied for Canadian permanent residency.

Yeah. So you can get your Italian? Yeah, yeah. God damn it. I talked about it on the show the other day because there are these countries where if one of your grandparents was born there, I can go to Poland, but I don't think that's much better.

I don't know, man. It might be better now. Maybe, maybe. Are they, you know, I was told I could get that, but are they letting Jews into Poland? Back in. Yeah. But I think the idea is to get the European passport, right? The EU.

Yeah, yeah. That's the idea. Oh, so you're preparing. So you could go to Greece. I mean, you know, you could. I might go a lot of places if I get it. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. But you can also go, you know, they have these golden passports. Yeah, I know. But like, I'm weird, you know, you could- I'd go a lot of places if I get it. Yeah. Yeah. But you can also go, you know, they have these golden passports. Yeah, I know. But like, I'm weird, you know. You know, like everyone was like talking about Portugal and shit. I'm like, the fuck am I going to do in Portugal? Exactly. You're just going to sit at a cafe and be like, oh, that's where the expats hang out.

Yeah. I can't do that. I don't know the language. Yeah. Although you'd be with the expats. Yeah. So you wouldn't have to. I don't, it's all very terrifying to me.

It is, man. It's crazy. Yeah, but, you know, it's not unprecedented. That's the fucking problem. No, it's not. And it's like, just because we live here, you're thinking like, well, it's America. It's going to be tough. I mean, it's a big country.

It's a, you know, republic. Well, institutions, but also it's like, how are they going to do it in every state? Yeah. But, you know, We can't do anything in every state. Exactly.

So how, yeah, well, that's a silver lining. Maybe just the Midwest will be fascist. Yes. And then everybody, and Texas.

And Texas. Well, I don't know what's going on there. That's some sort of, kind of, it's definitely fascist, but it's also, uh, a haven for libertarian rich guys who just, you know, somehow detached from the fascism. Cause if you have money, you can afford to rise above it. You don't become a fascist. No,

you just, uh, you, you just kind of, uh, uh, you elite your way through it. That's right. I do a joke on stage now where I say, uh say, most of you, you'll adapt to fascism. I mean, it's going to be scary the first couple weeks, but eventually you'll be like, oh, it doesn't affect the Wi-Fi

and I can still get all the streamers. That's so fucked up. Oh my God. But you know it's true. Well, now I do because you said it.

Because what is... I don't want to hear that. What is everyone going to do? No, you're right. They're just going to... We'll adapt. Yeah,

of course. Like everybody did. Except for the people who are on the bottom side of that. What is everyone going to do? No, you're right. They're just going to get. Yeah, of course. Like everybody did. Except for the people who are on the bottom side of that. Yeah, the people that weren't allowed to adapt because they were being killed or pushed out. Yeah. And then, you know. That's the part that really. And then you're just like, how well do you know your neighbors?

Oh, they're taking Mark away. I know. Is he just going to leave that stuff in the yard? That scares me, man. Well, it should. Of course it's scary. But. Is that possible is the question. Well, I don't know.

I think the big mystery is, you know, how organized are the ones that are just hanging out in the woods, shooting guns and praying? How organized are they? I mean, that's the big question. That is a big question. It's like if the screw turns, are they coming down from the hills or what? We don't know. If you live in those hills. Well, do you? I do.

So when you're waving at people in the trucks, when you go into town, you're like, I don't know about that guy. Sometimes. I know a lot of people, and there's a lot of really decent people. It's funny because there's a lot of really decent people who sort of have been indoctrinated into some of this stuff. It's like it's really about, I don't think we had any idea

just how soft people's brains are. Yes, I've heard you say that. I've said it before. I keep thinking about it. It's what are they getting fed, really? And how much? Yeah, do they know anything? This thing is powerful.

Oh, buddy, that thing is. It blasts your brain out. Yes, it does. And I think it really does change the way you think. Reconfigures your mind. I really think it does. Because oddly. Because I become so dumb.

You have? Well, I just find myself having a harder time focusing, reading really long things. But that sounds like you had to do that all your life. Anyway, that's what my wife says. She's like, no, you're not getting Alzheimer's.

You've been like this the whole time. I don't know what you're talking... But I forget my phone. I forget my've been what are you talking about you've been doing that for years ever since i met you and that's an old thing too oh yeah i'm like i'm getting old she's like no you've been old all the time the whole time yeah you're just a you were an old soul born old man that's a good that's so kenosha so so you're okay okay so but like we grew up, none of this stuff was there, and that's why you find comfort in the cassettes. And there is something, there's something about that time that isn't filled with all this shit. You know, that like, and we've completely lost access to it. Because even if you try to just sort of like, I'm just going to have a day like I had when I was in high school.

It's menacing because you're like, what's happening? What am I missing? You're like, keep reaching for the phone. Constant FOMO, constant fear of missing out. Yes, I know. You want to get that one news story. The 24-hour news. I'm literally on the news all day long.

Dude, but you have to compartmentalize that stuff. Tell me about it. I mean, because a lot of it's just speculation. That's true. It's not news. See, that's how they get you. Yeah. I'm waiting to find out too. Yeah. Yeah. But I have some ideas. Here are some ideas. Here's what we need to do. I don't need your ideas. You know, I can't. Too many ideas. It's the fucking worst. But what was the childhood like? Was it all right?

Oh, it was amazing. I mean, you know, it was, we lived on the edge of a forest, so I got to spend my days in there. And that was, you know, and we would just leave the house. Yeah. And we would get on our bikes. Sure, kids could just run wild. Yeah, we just ran wild. Yeah. I mean, we got into a lot of trouble.

Yeah. Burned some stuff down, you know. That's just a normal American childhood. Yeah, yeah. In the 70s got busted for pinching candy at the penny store

all that stuff but was that a busted thing or did they just walk you home to your parents had my bike stolen boy real criminal other neighborhood kids

and you knew the kid that's the worst thing no I didn't know the kid the kid's like a group of kids comes upon me hey man cool bike. Can I ride it?

And I was like, yeah, sure. And he just took it. And I was like, is he coming back? And they're like, that's his bike. Oh, no. But you're able to use that feeling, that experience. A long time. You can draw from that.

I draw from that. Why do you think I got to Hulk? I was pissed. I lost from that. Do you? Why do you think I got to Hulk? I was pissed. I lost my innocence. Every time you're about to go into Hulk, you just see those kids riding away with your bike? I do. My little Schwinn banana seat. The scrambler.

Yeah. Oh, nice. A Schwinn scrambler. That's right. And you had sibs, right? You had a bunch of big family? Brother and two sisters. Oh, wow.

So that's big. Yeah. And what did your folks do? My dad worked for a construction painting company that my family started. Really? They were house painters. Really? And my grandfather.

The Ruffalo and Sons? It was just a Ruffalo painting. Oh. Did they have a store? Or just a... No, it was just a big office. They had a lot of trucks and a lot of well when

they started it was just my grandfather and his his cousin yeah and a few ladders and a truck and it said Ruffalo on the truck yeah yeah that's exciting

when you're a kid right yeah oh yeah we drive by and be like Ruffalo yeah that's us yeah that's us my dad my grandfather had a hardware store in

Haskell New Jersey called Jack's Appliances and then Jack's Hardware. And it was like you'd drive by like, my grandpa. Grandpa. And everyone knows Jack. Sure. Oh, boy, they definitely do.

They all knew him. They knew your dad? Oh, everyone knew them. Yeah. It's great. It was great. It was a great way to grow up. And was there an Italian community?

Huge. And that's what you lived in? Yeah, yeah. And there's this amazing, even when I go back there, we always go to this place, Tenuta's. Yeah. Which is like, I mean, it's the best Italian deli in the United States in the middle of Kenosha, Wisconsin. Yeah. They get all the best Italian stuff there.

Yeah. Can you get guanciale there? Yeah, of course you can. Giardiniera. I mean, the sisi beans, you know. Oh, yeah, yeah. Like, just all the obscure Italian, you know, and then they have an Italian bakery, and then there's another Italian bakery.

And it's all still going? Yeah, man. That's great. It's great. Because a lot of those places, like when certain generations pass, they can't hold out. No, that's not happening there. And so there's still a big Italian community? Yeah, and they go to that place, you know?

Oh, that's great. Those restaurants. Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. So, do you spend

the whole childhood there? No, when I was 13 I moved to Virginia Beach. How'd that, why? My dad went to work

on a job there and got sort of, you know, my dad would go on these jobs a long time and he'd be gone for like a month or two. Just painting jobs?

Yeah. Like they were doing Trident submarines. They were doing like. They painted submarines? Yes. They painted the Trident submarines. They painted the Navy bases. They would paint.

That's a big operation. Oh, huge. I'm talking huge, huge, huge. I mean, that's like, you know, that's like a military contract. Yes. Huge. With all of the security clearances and all that stuff. Oh, so this is not some sort of like, you know, like work.

No, this isn't like the local, like we're going to do But that's how it started though. Yeah, that's how it started. And then he worked and moved his way into Chicago, which was not easy, you know. Commuting? Yeah, yeah. And they'd go to do work in Chicago. It's 45 minutes north of Chicago. And then they were in Milwaukee

and then they started doing, you know, all they started doing all the American Motors was there. So they did American Motors. They did Abbott Laboratories. Yeah, yeah. They painted it? Yeah. Oh, my God. Sandblasted, painted it.

Then they were doing all the bridge work and the weather batement and all that stuff. You watched the transition from just sort of like humble working class to massive. Yeah, to upper middle class. Yeah. Yeah. And then we lost it all. Oh, so. That's part of the reason I left when I was 13.

I know that father. Oh, man. And then he became an entrepreneur. And that's always, you know. That's where it goes. Gambling. Sure. In a And that's always, you know. That's where it goes. Gambling. Sure. I mean, in a way, it's, you know.

Well, depending on who the guy is, you know, you got something you know how to do. Yeah. And you make money at it. Yeah. And then people that only care about making money, they're like, we'll take that guy's money. Yeah. Yeah. But he wasn't like, you know.

Not a sucker. No, no. But he did, you know, he got us through. Yeah. But every, we were moving, you know moving from 13 to, I left home at 18. And they stayed together? Yeah. Well, until I was in my 20s.

After all of the, everything went to shit. Oh. And they sort of lived through that. Yeah. Then they were done. Yeah. Yeah. My parents didn't quit until I was in my 30s.

That's amazing. So they were, what? They were at least married for 30 done. Yeah. Yeah. My parents didn't quit until I was in my 30s. That's amazing. So they were, what, they were at least married for 30 years. Oh, yeah. 30 or 19. Yeah. No, they were married a long time, but there were other problems. But it's weird when they get divorced and you're a grown person. I know.

Because, you know. You're like, are you kidding? Yeah, yeah. It's like half over now. You might as well just. Well, there's that, but there's also, was my whole life a lie? Well, that's the one that really kills you. Yeah, if you go.

Because I didn't know. I had no idea. What he was up to? I had no idea. My parents, yeah, none. I had no idea. I had no idea. I had no idea they had any problems.

Sure, sure. They were like affectionate and they were sweet they never fought in front of us and so and it was like hey we're getting a divorce yeah and here's why and you're just like what so my whole life is like yeah a sham i mean i don't want to use the word sham but it's like but it's a fucking fucking sham. But they did the right thing. They did. Oh, they were beautiful. But that's the thing.

As a parent now, I'm not a parent. Yeah, I am. Right. So you know, you make decisions. Yes. The kids will see this. Yes. And then we'll go in the room and do the other thing.

Yes, yes, yes. Yeah, but still. But it's still pretty, it's a punch in the gut. Because you don't know them. That's it. Like, as a grown person, you don't, like... You're like, what kind of people are these? And then when you're like, what kind of relationship can I have?

I mean, I don't understand. How crippled am I? Yeah, I mean... How fucked up? Did I... Am I that, like... Yeah, yeah. Unaware?

Yeah. Oh, or there's that. But then there's also the sort of like everything that's unsaid gets put into you anyways you don't miss it no but you're wired yes you you got it now yeah right that's right so then it's not just you know uh uh am i am i a sucker but it's like am i them i know and then do i model how how do i do a relationship i don't you know they didn't show me really how to do it. I know.

They didn't. Does anybody? You got to fight in front of your kids a little bit. Sure. And then you got to teach. They learn how to fight. That's just natural. Yeah.

What they don't know how to do is make up. And that's where a relationship is. Yeah. It's being able to make up. Yeah. Because we all are fucked up yeah we all fight we all you know yeah but but a lot of people don't know how to how to make up yeah you know they don't know how to like without carrying the resentment yeah yeah well you still carry it i

know i know you collect them yeah but like you have you know you get compassion hopefully that's the goal and empathy i had it took me I think, a long time to connect and really understand empathy. Because I'm a self... When you're self-centered, empathy is fleeting. You can stay in it for 10 minutes, and then eventually you're going to be like, but how's that me? What about me? Yeah, exactly.

Okay, yes, we felt a lot for you. Yeah, yeah, but now it's my turn, right? Yeah, isn't it? Yeah, and then they walk away away and you're like, fuck! Yeah, and there you are. I just got rooked. Oh, you got me. Conned again emotionally.

So, Virginia Beach. Yeah. What happens there? Where do you start acting? There. I was a, man, I Man, I was a surfer. I was a skater. I was in a punk band.

What did you do in the punk band? I played bass. You still play bass? Sometimes. Yeah. My daughter plays bass and guitar. Did you have the guitar to give her? Your old guitar?

I gave her my bass. You did? Yeah, my P-bass. Oh, you got a P-bass. Yeah. So what was the name? 70s P-bass. Yeah, it's great.

What's the name of the punk band? It was, we were called VoiceBass. Oh, you got a P-Bass. Yeah. Like a 70s P-Bass. Yeah, it's great. Yeah. What's the name of the punk band? It was, we were called Voice of Reason. Oh, of course. Voice of Reason. And that's something that stuck with you. VOR. The well-known VOR in all the Virginia Beach fanzines. Yes, yes.

Yeah, those little fan rams. Yeah, we're playing a basement. We're playing a skate park. We're playing a skate ramp. Yeah, yeah. That was the plan. And you did it yeah

yeah we played we played parties we played you know original songs yeah did you write them we wrote some original songs

yeah yeah we did a lot of covers we did like Agent Orange sure what were some of the names of the original songs oh man

well Voice of Reason sure we had the close with that yeah yeah we're the voice of reason yeah Oh, man. Well, Voice of Reason. Sure. We had the title. Close with that. Yeah, yeah. We're the voice of reason. Yeah.

Reason. All bar cards. Yeah, of course. That's great. Four notes. Yeah, yeah. No bridge. Fast drums.

Yeah, fast drums. Were you popular? We had a little following there. How long did you do that? Oh, man. We were probably, that was about a year. And I came out of the drama department. That's where you met the guys?

Yeah, yeah. At the high school? Yeah, yeah. So I was a wrestler. I was like a really serious wrestler. So you were, so. I was a jock. I was this weird hybrid of like i was in

every single thing yeah no well that's good that means you can move through all the different worlds that's what i learned you're diplomatic we're moving every year there you go buddy hypersensitive to other people's needs sure sure just latch on yeah what do you need me to be an appendage yeah oh good what do you want to hear what do you want me to be you know it's another blessing and a curse yeah but but so so it wasn't a big departure to the punk thing it wasn't like a rebellion thing you were just you were a jock but you weren't an asshole jock and wrestling's a different thing yeah that's not football no that's kind of punk rock and that's as punk rock as you could be in the sports world. Yeah. Because you're trying to hurt people.

Yeah. One-on-one. And it's just you. Yeah. And the more brutal you are, the more punk rock you are. Were you good? I was really good. So when you did Foxcatcher, you're like, I got it.

Well, yeah. The hard part about that was I was a righty. Yeah. So I was shooting on the right-hand side. Every move I did was on the right hand side. Dave Schultz was left. So I had to, it was almost harder because my natural instinct was to do this and I had to switch it all up.

You must've been like, when you got that script, you're like, I got this. And then they pointed it out that he was left. You're like, fuck. Oh,

and then I was like, it was six months. To learn it. Yeah. it yeah wow yeah i gotta be honest with you that movie is a great movie that's great it's crazy dude it's crazy i love doing that it was the hardest thing i've ever done really oh my god and wrestling channing i had to wrestle channing they they kept us apart after a while because I kept getting hurt because, you know, I might come off as a pretty nice fellow, but like,

When you get in the mode? I want to win, you know? I'm not, I'm, you know, I want to, and,

you know, Channing had 30 pounds on me. He's huge. He's huge. And he would, he would just clop me, you know? Yeah,

yeah. And, but we, you know, that was, we really went through something together there. Like, I love that guy. He's my brother. He is my brother, you know?

You guys still hang? Not really, but like, we'll pick up right where we left off. I could see it. That movie was like such a deeply disturbing true story. And the exploration of the human spirit on that one. Huge. I mean, I can't. And all of its darkness and triumph, you know?

But being fundamentally codependent in that dynamic, wow. And you're dead. Yeah. That's the ultimate price of codependency. That's the unrecovery movie. Yes. Not much recovery there. But Carell, were you surprised by him? Oh, my God.

He never broke character. I mean, I'd be in the elevator with him after 12 hours of just being just brutalized. I mean, it was a really hard shoot, and I would look over at him, and he was just in character. Really? On the elevator, and I'd be in character. Really? On the elevator.

And I'd be like, how's this going for you? And he's like, pretty well. I don't know. I don't know. So creepy. Yeah. And I was like, okay. It's sort of astounding that he can do that.

Because he's so fucking funny. He's a chameleon. Well, he's like Peter Sellers. I guess that's true. In that that he can do that. Because he's so fucking funny. He's a chameleon. Well, he's like Peter Sellers. I guess that's true. In that way. That's true. He's a total chameleon and so committed. Yeah.

Like you don't see the seams. Yeah, right. Right. Yeah, yeah. And even that character has a, it's a strange character. What a strange character. There is funny. Yeah, no, I know what you're talking about.

When his mother comes in and he's going to wrestle and they've got to lose. And they're trying to show him, and he's just so bad. It's undeniable how bad he is. It's so sad. It's so sad, and she's just, oh. Who was that again? She's so disappointed.

It was, it just ran. This is the thing. Oh, yeah. Redgrave. Vanessa Redgrave that's right of course yeah the great amazing

Vanessa Redgrave the unforgettable Vanessa Redgrave who I just just forgot no it happened I came back I got it

you got it on your own it's like love you got it on your own it's like love if you chase it it runs away yeah but if you hold back

a little bit it comes to you we're talking about memories yeah that's what I've But if you hold back a little bit, it comes to you. We're talking about memories? Yeah. That's what I've learned. If you try to chase it, forget it. It's gone.

And then if you don't go to your phone, sometimes you'll try to remember something. I saw you. You literally, you were going to do, and I was like, no fucking way. We're doing it. No. Old school. No way. I'm stopped. I'm getting there before that computer does.

And you did it. Sometimes I'll go a whole day, and then at the end of the day, you'll be like, fuck, I got it. It's Redgrave. Yeah, it took me 12 hours. It comes when you're not chasing it. Surprising, like love. You're surprised by it. Yeah.

All right, so the punk band, and then what was it that got the acting going? I wanted to be an actor. It was as a little kid. My grandmother let me stay up one night. I told this before, but my grandmother, she used to let me stay up at night, and I'd sneak down after the other kids. And I'd sit there and watch TV with her. Yeah, yeah.

And she'd smoke her Eve cigarettes. Eve's, yeah. And she's like, come on down. There's a world premiere of a great movie tonight. And I came down, and she's like, a on down. There's a world premiere of a great movie tonight. And I came down. I was like, she's like a streetcar named Desire. And I was like, okay. And I came down.

We're watching it. And I'm watching Brando. Like, I don't know who he is. Yeah. And I'm like, Grandma? Who's that? Yeah. She's like, Marlon Preston.

I'm like, what is he doing? She's like, he's acting. I'm like, I want to do that. That's a good one. Well, you're fancy first, though. I got a lawyer friend, and I'll take a look at his friends. Okay, for appraisal. Yeah, yeah.

The Napoleonic cult says whatever belongs to the husband also belongs to the wife, vice versa. Did you ever do that play? No, I wish. I'm too old now. Oh. You know, there's all these parts.

This is one of the things. You get to be 56. All the parts that you're like sure you were going to play one day, you can't play anymore. You like age out. Did you use it for auditions or anything? Never.

Because you can't not do the impression. Yeah, and it's like, how are you going to touch? I would never even, yeah. I mean, what could you add to his performance, Street Camera Named Desire? Like, how could you top that? I can't even name another Stan Lee.

I know there was a new one. Didn't someone just do it? Yeah, they do it all the time. And I'm sure there's great ones. I don't know who am I to say, but I'm terrified of coming up against that and having a comparison made. But didn't they compare you anyways?

At some point? Unbeknownst, I mean... Not because of that. Yeah, not by my own doing. Somebody decides you're the new Brando at some point. Yeah, I mean, that happens a lot to people. I'm going to talk about setting you up. It's amazing I'm still here. Yeah, yeah. That's a pretty lot to people. I'm going to talk about setting you up. It's amazing I'm still here.

Yeah, yeah. That's a pretty big setup. That was a pretty heady thing, yeah. But he was like, but did you, like, as you kind of moved through? Oh, let me tell you what happened. So I wanted to be an actor. Yeah. And I was a wrestler.

I went down that road. Everyone's like, oh, what, you don't want to be an actor? Okay. Yeah, wrestling's so much more of a stable. Yeah, a man's thing,. Okay. Yeah, wrestling is so much more of a stable. A man's thing. So I'm walking by the drama room, and they're all rolling around on the ground and wrestling around. But it's two guys and, like, 20 girls. Yeah.

And I was like, what am I doing? Yeah. I want to be in there. That's a better sport. And I don't have to cut 20 pounds, you know, to do it. Yeah, yeah. And I was, you know, one of two straight guys. In the whole program?

I was one of one straight guys, you know. And that was in high school. Yeah. And so you started doing those shows. Yeah, so a kid broke his arm. I was like, oh, I'm in the drama department for an easy A, but I was really digging it. And a kid broke his arm, and my teacher, Nancy Curtis, was like,

hey, why don't you replace him? For what show? It was a musical called Runaways, and it was about a runaway kid living in a foster home. So you're singing? They're singing. I'm the straight guy. I'm playing a detective.

Oh, good. And I'm just copying, just flag. I'm playing a detective. Oh, good. And I'm just copying just flagrantly Columbo. Can I ask you a question? You did the eyes too? Yeah. But you probably got laughs. That was it. I got this huge laugh.

Yeah. And I was like, this is what I'm going to do for the rest of my life. And I went to my acting teacher, Nancy, and I was like, Nancy, I know I'm 18, and, you know, is it too late to do this? And she's like, no, Mark, it's not too late. Oh, is she still around? Yeah. Yeah, I'm in touch with her. You give her credit all the way. not too late. Oh, is she still around? Yeah. And do you like... Yeah, I'm in touch with her.

You give her credit all the way. I just did. Yeah, I know. It's great. Yeah, I've had these incredible women in my life who were all along the way were like really instrumental in where I'm at today. So where do you go from Virginia Beach then? So then we moved to San Diego.

My day after my senior year. Your dad? Yeah. For military contracts? Yeah. For that, yeah, he was going back to do that, and he was starting another company. Painting? My uncle was painting,

so I think he went to help work on that. But he did this other thing called Soda Butler. Yeah. Which was the original make your own soda at home with a little co2 thing yeah and it was about to take off like you know and uh and the big companies stops selling him their syrup which is part of an antitrust like you they have to sell the public that syrup coke Coke? Coke, Pepsi, all, you know. Oh, that's why you get the weird syrups with soda streams.

Yeah. Yeah. Soda stream was the beginning of it. Yeah. He basically started that. And then he had Biermeister, which was have your keg at home, in your house. Sure. In a little refrigerator with a tap.

That was his. That was your dad? Yeah. Setting himself up. Genius. I mean, it was actually genius at the time. So you're in San Diego. Yeah, so we're in San Diego.

I'm 18, and all I'm doing is sitting in my room. I'm doing some surfing, smoking a lot of weed, and playing the bass, and just going downhill. But there was more punks in San Diego, no? Yeah, but I was so depressed. I couldn't even, I didn't know anybody. And it was, you know, San Diego, I know, it's just there. It's hardcore.

It was hardcore. And it was a hardcore drug scene there. I mean, and the people are, they're just edgy. Really? It's just hard to get into that scene. Yeah, I can't, I never know what to make of it. It seems like a lot of people that are kind of like walking around in sandals.

Yeah. But I know there's got to be an underbelly to it. Oh, yeah. Well, we were in Mission Beach. It was heavy. I don't know what it's like now, but it was very, very heavy.

So that's where you started to spiral? Yeah. And we met somebody and she's like, you should go to the Stella Adler Conservatory in Los Angeles. And I went to my dad. I was like, how would I do this?

He's like, take the train. You know, you take a train. And I'm like, what'll happen? What happened? And I was like, what's the worst that can happen? And I was like, the worst that can happen? I die? And he's like, big deal.

You won't know. You won't even know it. Yeah, yeah. So you just start once a week? I'd go three days a week. And you went back home every time? My parents were broke at that time. Yeah, I'd go.

I'd take the train. Yeah. I'd work as a busboy. I'd make just enough money. It was like I needed 40 bucks. It was 33 bucks for a round-trip ticket. It was seven I needed $40. It was $33 for a round-trip ticket. It was $7 to eat. I'd get a burrito, those burritos on Hollywood Boulevard.

I went to school on Hollywood Boulevard during the height of the crack years. It was crime. It was mentally ill people. It was bad. I mean, it makes the Hollywood today look like Disneyland. Right, it's a mall now. Yeah. It is Disneyland. It is Disneyland. But it's a little edgy Disneyland. Right, it's a mall now. Yeah, yeah. It is Disneyland.

It is Disneyland. But it's a little edgy Disneyland. It's a little dark. Yeah, so that's how I was living. And I was doing that for months before I actually moved to L.A. Was Stella still alive? Yeah. So you got to work with her.

Yeah. Wow. Yeah. But my main teacher there was this woman, Joanne Linville, who was like this great television actor and like an amazing teacher teacher and i walked into the school and she's like what are you here what do you i'm like i i know i'm 18 i know i'm probably over the hill yeah yeah but i i and i don't know anything really about acting yeah you know but i i want to be an actor she's like you know you've come to the right place, darling. And she took me under her wing and she really taught me everything. I mean,

it was pretty straight up method, right? Yeah. I mean, it's a version of it. You know, it's much more your imagination. Like they leaned hard on the imagination, less on your like own personal life. Right. But Joanne was an interesting hybrid because she studied both meth, she studied with Stella, and she studied with Lee Strasberg. So she was melding the two together, which I think is kind of the pinnacle of those technologies. What was the primary difference?

Strasberg was more into using your personal life. For the emotional memory? Yeah, yeah. And then projecting that onto whatever you're doing or playing stella was like no you the playwrights have these these universal truths and we have to lift ourselves up to that and we do that through the imagination not through our own lives because our own lives are so limited and this was this was the stanislavski stuff yeah but stanislavski took those this was the Stanislavski stuff.

Yeah. But Stanislavski took those. At one point, Stanislavski's like, no, we can't just use ourselves. We got to use our imagination. But he melded them together. But when it came to America, Stella and Lee Strasberg, who hated each other, sort of created this schism in his teachings. Teachings, yeah. Yeah.

the schism in his teaching. Teachings, yeah. Yeah, and it became these two schools that to this day are in a sort of, I don't know, they don't like each other. Still. Yeah. And I was like, give me, I'll do anything. It's not about, I don't give a shit

what the technique is, although I do. But Brando studied with Stella, right? Yeah, that's right. Yeah, so that was, did you, right? Yeah, that's right. Yeah, so, you know, that was, did you realize that? This is the crazy thing. Everyone was talking,

Brando, Brando, Brando, Brando. I didn't know who Brando was. I didn't remember. Well, my grandmother said Brando. I was like, I don't know who that is. Everyone was talking, Brando, Brando, Brando.

And I didn't know. I was like, I don't know who Brando is. And then one day, my friend comes over with a VHS and he throws in Streetcar Named Desire.

And I'm like, oh, how did I end up here? Yeah. And the whole memory came back. I mean, it's kind of like a suppressed memory. Right. A good one. Yeah. Maybe it wasn't that suppressed.

And so, yeah. And I was like, wow, I'm in the right place. And that's where you did all the studying. Yeah, and I was there for seven years. It was a three-year program, and I hung out for seven years. Yeah, man, I was just working on my craft. Getting out of San Diego. Yeah, and I got out of San Diego, and I lived in a closet.

It was a walk-in closet, $200 a month. Really? Downtown, down near MacArthur Park, where it was, you know, bodies strewn everywhere. Yeah, it was like crack. Yeah. It was dope. It was hell. It was real hell.

So you're here. You're doing it. Yeah, and I'm there. I'm doing it, and I'm living my dream. Did you get an agent? It took a long time to get an agent. So you come down here when you're here. You're doing it. Yeah, and I'm there. I'm doing it, and I'm living my dream. Did you get an agent? It took a long time to get an agent. So you come down here when you're 18 and start. So when do you get an agent?

How old? Probably 20. Yeah, that's not bad. No, not bad. And then you're going out on auditions. Yeah. Yeah. And you got a job?

I got a clear or slow commercial really early on, and then I was like, that's it, I made it. Yeah, and then i didn't work again for like four years what were you doing for work oh man i did everything i did landscaping i did house painting i did computer line ribbon sales telemarketing sales back in the day when there you know it was a dot matrix printer sure um, sure. But painting, did you grow up painting? I was around it all the time, you know. I knew how to do it.

You could hold a line? Yeah. Well, my dad's like, just, you got to put the paint on the brush. Don't be, come on. I'm like dipping it, you know, very daintily. That was a big, once you learn to like get that paint on a brush and cut in, that's the thing. Learn to cut in. But I knew all the tricks just watching.

I didn't realize how much I knew. And then I did Busboy, Waiting. But where I really just found myself was bartending. I bartended for eight years at all these places. I used to bartend at the Chateau Marmont. I, you know, me and another guy put the first bar there. Really? Yeah, they didn't have a bar.

Did you build it? We'd set all these tables up for all the events there. Yeah. And then we would just be buried, you know, all night back there. So now you're around real celebrities? I'm with celebrities all the time. And they're the worst tippers. Really? They were like terrible.

But I was doing all these little plays. I'm probably personally responsible for just destroying so many forests uselessly because I'd hand out my flyer for a play and literally five minutes later it would be crumpled up and I'm picking it up and throwing it away. Where were you doing plays? Oh, we had a little theater off of Hollywood Boulevard.

You know those little theaters in Santa Monica? Yeah. We had one of those. On Santa Monica Boulevard? Yeah, yeah. Down by, yeah, there's a bunch of them. Yeah. Like in a row.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. A theater row. Yeah. We were page 93. And someone just was like, we were fighting over what the name was going to be. Someone was just like, fuck it. They picked up a book. They opened it.

It was like page 93. We're like, fuck it. Fine. Page 93. Cool. Great idea. Yeah. You know?

But people still do that, dude. Yeah. We were doing fine. We could do a play for $5,000. If you try to do that in New York, it was like $100,000. Yeah. So we did 30 plays. Wow. We got to like work it out, man. That experience oh it was amazing audiences audiences yeah i mean 30 people but that's all right yeah whatever you're doing the acting we

were doing the acting in front of people where were your players great part these guys well benicio del toro was was one of the people i started selma hayek oh really cool yeah yeah there was a lot and they were in the plays with you? Yeah. Oh, wow. No, no, no, we were in school together. But this is a group that all these people now, Tim McNeil, he was in Forrest Gump.

He's written like 20 plays. He's a great playwright. Chris Thornton, who just was on Magnum P.I., the new Magnum PI. You know, but they teach there now, too. At Stella? My son goes there at Stella. Oh, really?

Yeah. That's wild, man. And I'm still connected to the school. How so? I'm on the board, but I go back all the time. Do you do classes? I sit in on classes. I talk to people.

I've done substitute teaching there back in the day. Yeah. Yeah. That's great. Yeah, I love it. It's a great place. It's happening. Yeah, I love it. It's a great place. It's happening. Yeah, and when did you get your break?

Oh, man. So I was doing all this theater here. If you were an actor doing theater in Los Angeles and you told the casting director that, they would literally look down. It was a net negative. Sure. So I had a resume full of theater.

Yeah. And they'd be like, where would you do this? Los Angeles. Oh. Right. And there goes my headshot in the garbage. So you just went on auditions constantly? Constantly.

Constantly. Wasn't getting anything. The rejection didn't bother you? Oh, what do you think I'm an... I'm not an animal. I'm not a machine. You know how many holes I had in the walls of my apartment from throwing, punching and throwing?

Oh, man, it was heartbreaking. I think I quit acting like four times, five times during the course of it all. What does that mean though? We're almost somewhere you need to go. Yeah, you quit. After a certain point you quit and then when your agent calls you're like,

I'm back in. Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's where it started. You know, it was funny because Kenny Lonergan who did, that was the beginning of it, You Can Count On Me. But before that he had a,

it was a one act play version of This Is Our Youth. This Is Our Youth is what launched me. It was an off-Broadway play that just became the hottest thing in New York at the time. And all the L.A. casting directors went to see it, and they were like, where did you come from? Yeah, I was in your office two weeks ago. Yeah, I was like, I've been under your nose for the last 13 years.

You know, where have you fucking been? Yeah, yeah. But it was, it allowed me to like really fly. Lonergan's the best. He's the best. Have you had him on?

Yeah. He's the best. He's great. How are you, Mark? I'm okay. It's really hard to get here today. Smart guy, right?

Genius. That's right. And the best writer. Oh my God. He is the best. Well, you did what? Three movies?

Three, two movies. Margaret. I did Margaret and Economy. But then I did the play. Yeah. So.

Those are big movies. Those are like intense. He's the best. Did you ever see the director's cut of Margaret? It's like three hours. I think I did.

It's so good. It's relentless. It's like three hours. I think I did. Oh, it's so good. It's relentless. It's relentless. But the writing is just, you can't even believe it. I know. It's an interesting role for Allison Janney. Wasn't that crazy? Out.

First scene. Yeah. Gone. Yeah. But it's a horrible scene. Horrible. Horrible. Horrible.

So that's where it starts rolling. Yeah. And then you just, because you've done a lot of scene. Horrible. Horrible. Horrible. So that's where it starts rolling. Yeah. And then you just, like, because you look at all the, you've done a lot of movies. I am. I'm trying to catch up to Willem Dafoe. Oh, my God. That guy. That guy works nonstop.

He's my hero. But you, I mean, you make choices. You know, there's some guys, I'm not saying he's one of them. I mean, he works a lot, but he does, you know, you can't do everything. Yeah. You turn down movies sometimes. I do. Yeah.

Like SNL. Yeah. I tried to turn down four things. You did? Yeah. I mean, I said, Yergo, I don't know if I'm the guy for this. Yeah. And he's just like, you are him.

Yes, you are. That was it? That's enough of that. Yeah. I was like, that's enough of that shit. Yeah. But you worked

with all these great directors. It's been amazing. I have like the most amazing, like quietest career. But is it quiet? You're kind of, I've forgotten that Haynes directed that

Dark Waters. Isn't that crazy it's a it's a heavy movie yeah i mean it's fucking great that movie's changed you know that's when it's changed that you know the epa is finally putting regulations on that they they've known about this for 20 30 years yeah and they've done nothing and now finally it's happening yeah i was just in congress like two weeks ago about that yeah. Yeah. I was at the EPA testifying with the families who lost people to cancers. Young people. Yeah.

You know, brain tumors, kidney, liver cancer. You know, it was just a nightmare. Yeah. And we're testifying in the EPA. And they have the legislation sitting on their desk. Biden said in his campaign that he was going to regulate EPA. And now it's happening. And it's because of that movie.

Well, Rob Balot's work, really. But that movie brought it to the whole world. Well, that's good when something like that works. Yeah, man. And that happens and that it raises awareness. Yeah, and it's not political. And it tells a human story. Yeah, man.

It's not political. No, that's how we get to each other, man. We tell stories about each other. Yeah, and it's not political. And it tells a human story. Yeah, man. It's not political. No, that's how we get to each other, man. We tell stories about each other. Yeah, and it landed. Yeah. But, like, what happened with, like, you're okay, your brain? What do you think? But, I mean, when did that brain tumor happen?

That was in 2001. After what movie? I just, I was in the middle, I was towards the last two weeks of The Last Castle with Robert Redford and James Gandolfini, my big break after You Can Count on Me. Yeah. I'm about to go off and do Signs with M. Night Shyamalan, co-starring with Mel Gibson. Right. And I'm on that movie, and I have a dream that I have a brain tumor, but it's like no other dream I'd ever had.

And I, like, wake up sobbing. And I, it's not even a dream, it's just like knowledge. Yeah. It's just like you have a brain tumor, you have to deal with it immediately. Yeah. That was the dream.

That's a dream and i wake up and i go i made friends with the with the onset doctor yeah and i'll go to her and i said you know hey doc um another actor with a brain tumor i know this sounds crazy um and uh i i think I have, I had a dream last night, I had a brain tumor. Yeah. Do you think I could get it checked out? And she's like, that is crazy. But I'm on the board of the local hospital. I'll get you a CAT scan.

Where were you? I was in Nashville. Oh, wow. Okay. And my wife was pregnant. She's about to give birth. Yeah. I go in there and they're like, yeah, you have a mass behind your left ear, the size of a golf ball. What? And it's a brain tumor. And we don't know if it's benign or, um, malignant. We won't know

until we could biopsy it. But, um, it, but you should probably talk to a surgeon. Oh, my God. So then everything drops out. Oh, dude. I can't even fucking imagine. And then I got out of the surgery, and my left side of my face was totally paralyzed. So you get the surgery, but you're sure you're dying in that moment. I literally made a video for my son before I went into the surgery because I was also afraid of dying on the table.

You have a 30% chance of dying on the table. As you're going in, you're signing it's okay if I die on the table. Yeah, because he told me. Here are the odds. I made a video for him. That's how real it felt to me. And how scary that knife is scary that you have. I found it. It's so cool. Do you have that video? Have you watched it? I haven't watched it. I have it in the two storage units that I have of all of our other stuff. Yeah, of course. That would be wild to watch. I'll watch it. I'm going to go there this summer and clear that thing out and get to all that old stuff.

So you get to surgery. I didn't tell my wife I had this brain tumor until after the baby was born. She didn't know you went into surgery? No. Then I told her maybe two days after the baby was born that I had to go to this neurosurgeon to see what we're going to do with it. Oh, so it was before the surgery. Yeah. Yeah.

So you waited. I waited. And you still didn't know if it was benign or malignant? No. And when I went there, they're like, we think it's an acoustic neuroma, which is benign. So I was like, oh. Yeah. But I was still afraid, you know.

And so you get the surgery? I got the surgery. I wake up and my face goes paralyzed. Oh, okay. Like hours after. Total left side, completely paralyzed. I can't close my eye. Oh, God.

And I'm talking like this, you know. No, come on. And I'm about to go do a movie with Mel Gibson. And they had to rewrite it? You know, I said, I've never rewritten a script for an actor. Yeah. Not a word.

Yeah. I was like, wah, wah, wah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But he could have had a stroke. I was like, he was in an accident. The guy actually was in an accident.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was like, he had a brain. He hit his head. No. No, you know, it was the doctor who pulled the plug. He's like, you can't, no. Oh, a doctor who pulled the plug he's like you can't no oh really yeah the doctor's like you can't do it what were the odds they gave you that your face

would come back they gave me a um well every single day it doesn't come back yeah the odds go down and after three months they the nerve atrophies. And so, like, I'm right on the fucking edge. So you can't work? Then it's over. I mean, what's going to happen to me? Yeah. You know, I have a baby at home.

I got, you know, newly married, baby at home, bought a house. Oh, my God. Like, the whole nine. Like, living the dream, finally made it. Yeah. And back to what was your mental state you must be and then I was all

jacked up on steroids I was like on 15 I was on 150 milligrams of prednisone like this crazy experimental

so you're out of your mind I was out of my fucking mind in your face that's why I learned the Hulk I was walking around

in a god damn rage you mother fucker yeah how could you do this to me learned the Hulk. I was walking around in a goddamn rage, you motherfucker! Yeah. How could you do this to me? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Having a big issue with God. Yeah, yeah. Like, really. But still not losing it in front

of the baby so much. No. The baby was losing it. We had a colicky baby. The baby's losing it in front of us non-stop, you know. I'm walking around, falling down every ten feet. Really? Yeah, The baby was losing it. We had a colicky baby. The baby's losing it in front of us nonstop. I'm walking around, falling down every 10 feet. Really? Yeah, my equilibrium was all off. I'm falling down, and I can't sleep. And I'm talking to God, and I'm walking around.

And why are you looking at me like that? Why are you looking at me like that? You think I'm ugly, don't you? You're going to leave me. You I'm ugly, don't you? You're going to leave me. You're leaving me, aren't you? I'm damaged goods, aren't I? Oh, no. It was my poor baby.

Your wife? You are a saint. Yeah. My baby and my wife saved me. She saved me. She killed me, and she saved me at once. Yeah. And how long did it take?

So right at the mark where it was, I'm like six months in almost, at the mark where it's like over. Yeah. You know, I start doing all these alternative things. I'm like, I'm off this. I'm getting off the steroids. This is insane.

Yeah. And I started doing acupuncture and literally like after my sixth time acupuncture i'm like this i could just move the little tiniest bit the left corner of my eye yeah and i'm like baby baby look look baby and we both burst out in the tears like We're like, it's coming back. We're in the car. We were both just sobbing tears of joy because I can move. Twitch your eye. Twitch my eye.

Yeah. Yeah. And then it came back. I mean, it's almost there. It's still screwed up. It doesn't totally work. But the rest of the face is there, right? Yeah, the other half is great. No, but there's still...

Yeah, it all came back. It's a little asymmetric. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Emma Stone said that was sexy and charming, and that's why they cast me. Because of your asymmetrical face? Yes, yes, yeah. No, but that's what everything got back on track?

Yeah, it was kind of a crawl out. I was hearing he has AIDS, he's a drug addict, he had to go into rehab. Oh, so you had to come out and tell people. Yeah, it was a little bit damaged goods, you know. And so it was kind of like starting over. And then I lost my hearing in my left ear, so I don't even need this there. I could go like that. It's totally gone? Gone. And you just adapted? Yeah. I mean, it's like a perfect A440. Like, I can tune my guitar to it. Oh, really?

There's a buzz? Just... Really? Yeah. Yeah. Always. It's tinnitus all the time. I mean, I have to listen for it now.

But, man, those first... Just getting used to it. Yeah. And the loss of stereo. Yeah. Oh. Sorry, buddy. Dude. music i know in mono yeah oh it sucks yeah i i couldn't listen to me you can kind of maybe move back and forth if i go like

this yeah yeah yeah yeah but you're but you've adjusted yeah yeah but if someone's like mark mark you know i go to those photo lines everyone's like someone's like mark Mark, Mark, you know, I go to those photo lines. Everyone's like, someone's like, Mark, Mark, over here. I was like, I don't know where the, I can't tell where sound's coming from. Dude, I have one deaf and one ear. Give me a visual. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow. God damn it, man. But it's cool.

It's all cool. Yeah. That was a deal I made. I was like, okay, God. Give it back and you can have my ear. Yeah, let me live. Let me be a father for my kid, and you can have my ear. Yeah, let me live. Let me be a father for my kid, but you can have my ear. It worked out.

I know. I was like, the moral is be careful the deals you make. Sure. You know? Yeah. Be careful. I could have said, let's just squeak by this. I'm young.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I got a big life ahead of me. Yeah, yeah. Just stop throwing myself under mercy. Yeah. But you negotiated. I'm young. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I got a big life ahead of me. Yeah, yeah. Just I'm throwing myself under mercy. Yeah, but you negotiated. I did. You negotiated. And now you got more kids, right? I had three kids. How old?

22, 18, and 16. Oh, big. A boy and two girls. And they're all doing all right? Yeah. Wife's okay? Wife's amazing. Oh, good. We had some rough years there, but everyone came out. Oh, yeah? Yeah, it could have been bad.

Family stuff? The legacy? The legacy. The family disease is, you know, it all follows us. You seem good. I'm great, man. I'm, like, blessed. Well, look, I honestly am rooting for you.

Thanks, pal. Both in life and for the award. Thanks, man. I'm, like, blessed. Well, look, I honestly am rooting for you. Thanks, pal. Both in life and for the award. Thanks, pal. Because I know, like, you know, whatever anyone says about the Oscars. I mean, I want a prize. I'd like one prize. I'd like a prize. I'd like that prize. I've got some other prizes. Yeah. I could, you know, I'd go out okay

like I am right now. That would be bad. Yeah, but it'd be nice to have that prize. Yeah, that would be dope. I figure if you get four nominations, it's literally like you got one. Is it? In my mind. No, it's not. Shit.

You had to ruin that for me. I'm sorry. You know it's not true. I'm ending this. He's storming out. It was great talking to you, pal. You know it's not true. I'm ending this. He's storming out. It was great talking to you, pal. You too, brother. So good.

There you go. Good times. Huh? Yes. Poor Things is currently in theaters. Mark is nominated for Best Supporting Actor at the Oscars. Hang out for a minute. Currently in theaters, Mark is nominated for Best Supporting Actor at the Oscars.

Hang out for a minute. You can get anything you need with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get an ice rink on Uber Eats. But iced tea and ice cream? Yes, we can deliver that. Uber Eats. Get almost, almost anything.

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Stop wasting money on things you don't use. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions by going to rocketmoney.com slash WTF. That's rocketmoney.com slash WTF. Stop wasting cash. Folks, speaking of Oscar nominees, we've got some stuff from my recent Paul Giamatti interview that didn't make it into the final episode. That's going up on the full Marin tomorrow along with other outtakes.

But the thing is, I remember the Walking Through the Desert, It's Beautiful, Harry Dean Stanton, Dean Stockwell. It was very, it was kind of like an amazingly gorgeous movie. And then when it got to that part in the Peep show, I thought why is there a Sam Shepard play in the middle of this

movie? And I detached from it. But that's where he unloads the entire narrative. And that's the part of the peep show, I thought like, why is there a Sam Shepard play in the middle of this movie? Yes. And I detached from it. But that's where he unloads the entire narrative. Yes. And that's the part of the movie that I didn't register at all. No, of course not. No, same thing. To me, that just seems like this blur of weirdness, beautiful weirdness. That's right.

But I remember nothing else about it. But that's where he says, you find out what happened. The reason he was in the desert, he was married to this younger woman who he had a child with, and he was a drunken, jealous, crazy man, and she set him on fire. Yeah. She set him on fire, and he walked away. It's a whole fucking thing. No idea.

I have to watch it again. I had no idea. To sign up for the full Maron so you can get new bonus episodes every week, go to the link in the episode description or go to WTFpod.com and click on WTF Plus. We've got two more episodes this week. That's right. As I said earlier, we have to squeeze in a bunch of Oscar nominees before the voting deadline. So that means an extra episode on Wednesday with America Ferrara from Barbie. And on Thursday, Killers of the Flower Moon cinematographer Rodrigo Prieto, also cinematographer of Barbie.

And just a reminder, folks, before we go, this podcast is hosted by ACAST. Here's some guitar that's probably familiar. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. so so Boomer lives. Monkey and La Fonda. Cat angels everywhere.