WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1514 - America Ferrera

Episode Date: February 21, 2024

America Ferrera didn't expect that her performance in Barbie would lead to an Oscar nomination but few things in life have gone in a straight line for the daughter of working class immigrants from Honduras. America and Marc talk about how she encountered stereotypical typecasting even at a young age but saw that her work was making a tangible difference in how people saw themselves on the screen. They also talk about how America satisfied her desire for a career in international relations, her feelings about being part of cultural conversations dictated by others, and that Barbie monologue. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated

category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Be honest. When was the last time you thought about your current business insurance policy? If your existing business insurance policy is renewing on autopilot each year without checking out Zensurance, you're probably spending more than you need. That's why you need to switch to low-cost coverage from Zensurance before your policy renews this year. Zensurance does all the heavy lifting to find a policy, covering only what you need, and policies start at only $19 per month.

So if your policy is renewing soon, go to Zensurance and fill out a quote. Zensurance. Mind your business. Lock the gate! All right, let's do this. How are you, what the fuckers, what the fuck buddies, what the fuck nicks? I know, yes, it's Wednesdaynesday i know it's wednesday it's not monday or thursday it's wednesday and yes we're going to have an episode tomorrow as well it's just a big week what can i tell you we've got these oscar nominees like we have like five we've had more maybe how many it doesn't matter but we've got these guests who are nominated for oscars this

year and we want people to hear these episodes before the voting period ends next week. That means we had to squeeze in an extra episode this week, and it's a good one. America Ferrara, you know her from Ugly Betty, Superstore, The Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants, How to Train Your Dragon. She is nominated for Best Supporting Actress at the Academy Awards for her performance in Barbie. And a lot of it, I think, hinges on that stunning monologue she did, which is sort of a fascinating bit of acting and also a fascinating kind of rant that has a life all its own. that has a life all its own. And I know her work. I know America's work. I've watched a bit of the TV shows. And I don't believe I saw the sisterhood of the traveling pants. But I was sort of curious to talk to her because I never really know how acting interviews are going to go. And I don't really ever know how much an actor wants to talk about themselves or who they really are because they live in these roles.

But there is this episode is kind of a great story of of what America comes from. Some of the struggles she had to go through to get to where she is. And she grew up right here in L.A. And it's definitely a unique story that I haven't heard before. You know, this is a big deal being nominated for an Oscar. And, you know, it was not really an easy path and it was sort of a long shot. This is a long shot story in some ways, but her perseverance and, you know, her focus obviously is what transcended. But I enjoy talking to her. Barbie is, of course, now streaming on Max. So let's just get into this with America Ferrara.

Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative.

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Zensurance. Mind your business. I just talked to Mark Ruffalo. Here? Yeah, he was just here a couple hours ago. I love that guy. He's a nice guy. Yeah. You're both up for the same award, kind of, different men and women. Yeah. It's exciting, right? Yeah, it's crazy. I guess. Yeah, it feels very surreal. Yeah? Yeah. I mean, it's been a long time you've been doing this. Yeah. And did you have any sense that this would be the movie?

But no. No. That you would do this monologue that changed the world? No. What? It did. That's very kind. When I read the script, I was totally floored, just like blown away. But how did it read? Because it's so funny. I mean, I know that the point of view of it is powerful, but it's hilarious.

It read so funny. I mean, in the end, I felt like i had gone on a mushroom trip because because i was laughing from page one but then i was crying and i'm like why am i crying watching like reading a barbie script yeah and then in the end i was like laughing and crying and it sort of ended with that joke you know which was so insanely funny on the page and and the movie, but when I first read it, the ending with Barbie going to the gynecologist. Yes. And then it was just over.

And I remember like laughing and crying at the same time and being like, what did this Barbie movie just do to me? I know. I've seen it three times. Oh my gosh. Have you spoken to Greta? Yes. And Margot?

Oh, and Brian? No, I've not talked to Brian or Margot. I don't know what they're afraid of. I don't know why they just don't come over. But I've talked to Greta. I talked to her twice. Oh, that's great. I talked to her years ago for Lady Bird.

Yeah. And now it's like she just changed the world somehow. She's so unique. I mean, I'm just so deeply inspired by how true she is to herself yeah and who she is and her crazy bonkers unique vision of the world and voice and you know that that's the exciting part of like you know they i they said greta greta called and and she wrote a script for she wrote a script a barbie script yeah and there's a part in it that she said she wrote with your voice in her head and um and you know no not in a million years did I ever dream or imagine that I would be in a Barbie movie um

but that you know but but I but Greta I I was I am such it was such a fan of hers. And when I knew that it was her, and also Margot, who is such a talented actress. It's so crazy. It's kind of insane, her. And that's the thing, is reading the script, which was a brilliant script, but also that could have gone so many ways, right?

And knowing that it was going to be knowing that it was going to be margo and how her presence um brings such depth like she just she just kind of emanates depth and soul and and intelligence and so that's why reading it um and it also picture her yeah i could picture her doing it thinking oh this is going to be this is going to be brilliant yeah yeah yeah had you worked with ryan before uh-uh no no never no were you like officially a disney person no never no and my first job ever was a disney channel movie yeah and i was no because we never had like cable tv at home. No, but I mean, but that's what I mean. You were in the, you weren't.

Oh, you mean like, did I love Disney? Was I in, oh, I guess I was officially a Disney person. No, I mean, yes. My very first job was a movie made for the Disney Channel. So I think that makes me officially a Disney person. Yeah. And so you didn't have cable growing up at all? No.

I mean, sometimes we didn't have TV. Sometimes we didn't have a phone or like a working fridge. Like, you know, it went in and out. But that's what's interesting about, you know, that monologue. But the whole performance is great. But the whole performance is great. But like when that monologue sort of lands, it really is this amazingly broad sort of voice of all the challenges of being a woman in the world. And you grew up with a lot of that with your mom, I guess, right? Yeah. Yeah. And I think being a woman and then adding to it, I think part of what also what deeply resonated for me in that monologue was also just my experience

living between cultures, like living in a Latino home but being charged with assimilating with the world, but not assimilating too much and staying true to your roots, but succeed in this culture. So that was like another added layer of experiencing the, the, the, just the impossible mission of having to be something different in every single room you walk into and having to be all the things and somehow none of the things all at the same time. Right. But where'd you grow up? Here? In the valley, in Woodland Hills, Canoga Park. So the whole life, LA? Yeah. I moved to, at the end of college, I moved to New York and I've been there for about 18 years now. Oh, so you live in New York. I live in New York, yeah. You got out.

I did. I mean, not for good. I'm always here. And I love it here. I actually really have come to accept and love LA for what it is. Yeah, what is it? I think it's slower. Yeah, sprawling.

You have more control over your little tiny bubble. Like, it's a good place to go inward, I guess. But it can be lonely and isolating. Yeah, yeah. Which is why we always took to New York. You live right in the city? Right in Manhattan.

I was thinking about going back there. You love it. We love it. We love it. And we're just trying to figure it out because we have two small kids we have a five-year-old and a three-year-old now in the city and you're just running around is it a walk-up no we have an elevator thank god um and you're not carrying strollers and you know you're like oh i'm so glad we're such cool parents. We live in the city and our kids like, you know, go across the street in the park. But then you're like, oh, we can't play in the playground today because there's some needles, you know, or like drugs.

And then you're like, is it, are we doing the right thing? Like, you know, we want to be there for so many reasons. And then there are moments where you're like, do they have to see all of it? And how young is too young? And like you're kind of, so it's always a back and forth of like, we love it here. And what are we doing here? And we love it here. You know.

But it's funny, you get, you know, you bring your kids up in New York, you're going to be New York kids. Well, that's the problem is that now my son, who's only five, is already like identifies as a New Yorker. Yeah. So we go away even on vacation. Yeah. And both of my kids are like, when are we going home? Like, they're just like, we want to go back to New York. Yeah.

So now they're New York kids. And I don't know what would happen if we tried to take them out. It's crazy because my buddy, you know, he's lived in New York forever. And he's got this son who is is just like a New York art kid. Yeah. And there's a whole personality that comes with being a New York kid. I know. Is your husband Latino?

No. He is a white man. A white man. A white man from El Paso, Texas. Oh. So we kind of had like opposite upbringings. I would say so. Like I was the Latino girl in the Texas. Oh. So we kind of had like opposite upbringings. I would say so. Like I was the Latino girl in the valley.

Right. And I went to like 85 bar and bat mitzvahs when I, in seventh grade. Yeah. And he was the white boy in El Paso who was like in 25 quinceaneras. Yeah, exactly. And it was like we had sort of these opposite existences. Well, El Paso's very Latino. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. Like 80, 85%. Yeah, I grew up in New Mexico, and I think it was like 70%. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So he's like, funnily, like culturally, he's quite- Speak Spanish?

No! Wait, do you know? Do you know that the husband in the movie, in Barbie, my husband in the movie, that's my real husband. Oh, it is? Yes! Oh, I had no idea. That's hilarious.

I laughed so hard because... Is that your real relationship? No. No, but the first time I spoke to Greta on Zoom about the script, I was telling her all my favorite parts that made me laugh out loud. And one of them was cutting to the white husband

at home learning Spanish because my husband was literally in the other room doing his Spanish lesson. He took 12 years of Spanish. He grew up in El Paso. Still can't get it. He understands all of it and cannot speak it to save his life. So it was actually the perfect little cameo for him. How about the kids?

Do you bring them up with the Spanish in the house or no? I try really hard. I have to have other people around who speak Spanish who I can speak Spanish to. It gives me more confidence. You grew up with it, though? Oh, yeah. I grew up in a, my parents spoke, all the adults in the family spoke Spanish. And then we would, all the kids would talk to them in English. So it was like dual lingo, but we only knew one language and they knew the other language. But you knew both. Yeah, totally.

I mean, I can definitely, I understand all the Spanish. I can definitely communicate and defend myself, but I wish I was like fluent in a way where I wasn't self-conscious about speaking it. Oh, that came later? Did you get away from it, the Spanish? I mean, you were fluent.

Well, no, it wasn't fluently like understanding it, but we never really spoke it. And then there's this added thing of like, if we messed up, they made fun of us and laughed at, the adults would like make fun of us and laugh at us and be like, oh, you're so white or you're so american and then we would just stop speaking spanish and then we're then they were like you didn't learn spanish just like because you made fun of us every time we tried well that's interesting so they were you know they were criticizing you but they wanted you

you know that's another one of those weird kind of conflicts yeah yeah where'd you where were your parents from? Honduras. My parents were both born and raised in Honduras. Honduras. Have you gone there? I have. I've been back two or three times now. Yeah.

You have a lot of people there still? Yeah. I think I do have a lot of family, but i don't know that like i'm not that close to yeah yeah yeah um but i did i went back to my father went back to honduras when i was nine so my parents split up my father went back um and i never saw him again and never yeah no i never saw him again and he passed away in 2010 yeah i was like in my 20s. And then after he passed away, I took my first trip there. And I took my, with Bono's organization, The One Campaign, we went on like a USA trip. We actually happened to go to the village that my father was born and raised in. And the head of our security grew up with my dad and took me to his grave. And it was sort of this like completely on accident found my father's grave in Honduras.

And this is crazy. Um, it, it happened to be the, the, the two years to the very day that he, um, had his funeral that I couldn't go to. I couldn't get to, um, you would have gone though, even though he, I would have gone if I could go. Yeah. Yeah. But I just didn't have enough connections to, I don't know my family there. So I didn't have enough connections to really figure it out. Yeah. So was it like, did you have some sort of mystical experience with the cosmic timing of the whole thing? Oh, yeah.

I mean, it felt crazy. Yeah. Crazy to be like, whoa. Did you have resentment towards him your whole life or no? No, not that I was conscious of. It was all very complicated. It was a lot of complication. I think I was shocked about how I felt when he died.

Because I think more than anything, he left when I was nine. He wasn't really a big part of our life. He wasn't, you know, he just wasn't a part of my, most of my life and most of my childhood. You remember him though? Yeah, I remember him.

And the shocking part of it was like when he died, how much grief I felt. When like consciously I felt like, well, he hasn't really been a part of my life. So why would I feel like I was losing anything? I guess I lost him when I was nine. But then I had so much grief when he died. Huh?

Yeah. And it just all came up. Yeah. All the loss. Yeah. Yeah. And was your mom like, she wasn't in touch with them, I assume? No. It was not a conscious, what do they call it? Conscious uncoupling. It was not one of those. How many

siblings do you have? I have five siblings. That's crazy. I know. I'm the youngest of six kids. And we were all born within six and a half years. In Woodland Hills. In Woodland Hills, California. So your mom had to just carry all the weight. Mm-hmm. I guess your siblings got, what, one of them must have been in his teens. My brother and, yeah, my brother was like 13, yeah.

Wow. So what did your mom do to make ends meet? My mom, growing up, my mom worked at a Hilton hotel in Canoga Park. Most of my childhood, like 14, 15 years. And she ran, she was the director of the housekeeping, the housekeeping department. And we all grew up working in the hotel. All of us had our first jobs in the hotel. Oh, yeah. What'd you do? I waitressed. I served Alice Cooper once.

Oh, how was that? Was it sober and nice, Alice Cooper? I think he was, like, didn't make eye contact with me. I don't think he was really that aware of me. I guess not a lot of stars come through the Hilton in Canoga Park. Right. He must have lived out there or something. And I did the, I waitressed the morning breakfast shift, which was like started at 5 a.m.

I was a terrible, terrible waitress. So everybody, the whole family worked at the Hilton. We covered, we could run a hotel. My brother was valet. My sister was front desk. I actually like one summer basically did my mom's job. I like ran the housekeeping department for her in the mornings when I was like 16 or 17. But yeah, I mean, we could run that hotel, the six of us.

Is it still there? I'm sure it is. I don't know. I don't go into the valley very often. You don't want to trigger any trauma, early employment trauma, life trauma. Yeah, all of it. How about the siblings? You get along with them? You know, differing degrees. Yeah. I have like my sister who's 12 months older than me. She and I grew up so close and, but no one lives close. Like I live in New York and my sister, who's a year older than me, lives in Dallas.

So, you know, we see each other three to five days at a time at the holidays. Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's, you know, family is funny. It's crazy. Because, I mean, when you talk about it, and I'm like, I don't know why I act surprised. Because I have cousins I don't have that big of a relationship with. Yeah.

My brother and I are good. I just have one brother. You got to make that work. Yeah. I mean, you can try. Yeah. Right? Yeah.

I mean, it's funny. like so many people I know, like when you get into it, experience estrangement in family, like relationships that just have to kind of, you know, have a lot of distance. And yet it's like, it's still so taboo. Like we don't talk about it. About the real strains of... The reality of like how tough family relationships can be. And that sometimes estrangement is okay. Sure. Sometimes you can't, for whatever reason,

talk to them. I mean, I went through a couple of years. I didn't talk to my dad, you know, you gotta do it. And then if you live long enough, eventually somebody gives in.

Yeah. Or not. Depends how stubborn you are, I guess, or how bad it all was. So, or how happy you are. Now. Yeah. Right you are. Now.

Yeah. Right. Exactly. Why ruin this, the happiness, by going back to that? I feel like you're going to get me in trouble somehow. Somehow? I'm a grown-ass woman. Yeah.

I don't think we've done it yet. I'm not trying to. I'll let you know that. Okay. I'm just trying to figure out where it all starts. So you're in high school, and you're doing Hilton jobs yeah and then how does acting happen acting started for me I was like five years old not professionally right right no no no yeah um you know yeah daughter of working class immigrants um that was an incredibly insane dream for me to have you know and but i was five

the first time i saw uh my sister my oldest sister was in a fifth grade play and i was in kindergarten and i you know went to her performance and i just recognized it i Really what I felt was rage and jealousy. Because I didn't get to be in the play. All the attention. Well, no. I saw them up there doing something that I really wanted to be doing. It was like nobody asked me to play. And so I just recognized it as something.

And I was like, that's what I'm going to do. I was five. And I said to my mom, I'm going to be an actress and I'm going to be a human rights lawyer. That's what I wanted to be when I was five. Yeah. I think there's some acting involved in law. Right. But oddly, I guess over the course of your career in life, you've done both of those things.

Not the lawyer part, but you've stood up for the issues. Yeah. So how do you start acting as your mom? Supportive? How old were you? I did it in school. I did it everywhere I could do it. Mainly school, community theater, that type of thing. Plays? All plays?

Yeah, all theater. You went out to auditions at community theater in Woodland Hills? I went to Pierce College. I just knocked on the door. Wait, that's right out, Pierce College. Yeah, I just talked to somebody about that. That's out in the valley. Yeah, it's in Woodland Hills.

Isn't there another school out there with horses? Because we shot something out there at one of those campuses. Maybe it was Pierce. It's just out there. Pierce Community College, yeah. Okay, yeah. And I would just show up at their drama department and be like, Pierce Community College. And, you know, the worst thing they could do was say no. So I truly was just looking for any opportunity to do it. Yeah.

And then I got really lucky. I was a junior in high school. I was, I saw this woman manager came to our drama class. It talked about auditioning for commercials and like learn to audition for commercials. And I'm a manager and I'll send you out and so you know just like lots and lots and lots of kind of you know schemes or just dead-end type of things that that exist out here yeah you know I used my my money that I got from waitressing to pay her and I paid her and you you know what? What? It worked. I did it.

She became my manager. She sent me out for auditions. I never booked a single thing for like a year. Like commercials or TV shows? Commercials, guest stars. And, you know, every audition was a racket. I had to, you know, I didn't drive. I didn't have a car I had a license but not a car so every time I got an audition at 4 p.m in Santa Monica and I lived in the valley it was like

who was going to take me how was I going to get there what like yeah or just like I had to beg borrow and steal and take buses and just any way to each opportunity. So, you know, starting out every time I got an audition, I thought this is the one. But, you know, having no idea that you could audition for years and years and never get anything. And so it was about a year of auditioning and never getting even a callback. And then right when I turned before I turned 17, I booked the Disney Channel movie, Gotta Kick It Up. And it was at the end of my junior year. Just with this manager, no agent.

No, just with this manager. Oh, no, she got me at an agency, Bobby Ball Agency on Lancashire. Yeah. And, you know, they'd send me out and it was like right right from the beginning, like the realization of, you know, what what Hollywood was going to do with me. You know, it was it was it was very kind of stereotypical, demeaning type of like Latino roles. You know, even as a kid. Yeah. Oh yeah. Like commercials for like, you know, like bail bonds commercials and, you know, um, the, the, like the, the, the maids kid and the, you know, it was like, oh, so I'm, I'm not going to be up for

Aaron Brockovich. Cool. Got it. You know, it was like, I was young and, and, but it didn't take long to realize like, oh, these, it's, it's not going to be easy to come across the opportunities to, to like play the kind of roles I want to play. And, and, um, but I did get lucky very early on. And I, I booked the gotta kick it up movie on Disney channel. And then right after that, we hadn't even barely finished gotta kick it up. And I got my first film, which was, um, real women have curves. And that's like, that was a pretty big movie, right?

Yeah. It was, it was huge. It changed my life. Now, are you, were you training at all in any way? Did you take any classes ever? High school, high school drama. And that training at all in any way? No. Did you take any classes ever? High school drama. And that was it? Yeah.

Still? No, not still. I had no training. I had been working about five years. I was in my second season of Ugly Betty, and I kind of just grew so sick of myself. I was like, What exactly? Just like, I hate my tricks and my,

you know, like, I had only gone off of sheer instinct. So you started to feel limited? So all of a sudden I was like, I don't know what I'm doing. Like, I don't know how to build a character for five years. I think I've done all the things't know how to build a character for five years.

Like, I think I've done all the things I know how to do. And anyway, I had to keep doing it. So I looked for a coach and I found a coach who I've now worked with since then for like 17 years. She's phenomenal. And I built, you know, I kind of from the ground up found a process that worked for me and built a creative process that works for me. And, you know, and it's been a way for me to, you know, feel like I have tools and that I'm not just kind of out on a limb with nothing. Right, you're not a fraud. Yeah.

Or an imposter of some kind. Right, right. Yeah, but that, so, all right, so you do the real women have curves, and that changes your whole life. Mm-hmm. Did you move out of your house? I went to college. Oh. I went to USC to study international relations.

Yeah. And I kept auditioning and kept doing, like, mainly independent films. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, a pilot here or there. Yeah. And I was both like getting my degree in international relations at USC and studying at the same time.

And like, I'll just never forget the time where I was like shooting an independent film in Yuma, Arizona, shooting a pilot in Austin, Texas, going between those two sets and then like writing term papers on the floor. Oh my God, that's the floor in the Phoenix airport, like lay over between sets. So I was, I was doing a lot. I was, I was ambitious and I wanted to do

all of it. So with school though, like what, what'd you think that was going to get you, the international relations? I, I don't think anything. I, I felt confused myself about why I really wanted to go to college to study something else. I knew that my career was going to be in acting and storytelling and in the entertainment industry. I never planned to have a backup plan. It wasn't about that. I was a senior in high school when 9-11 happened. in the entertainment industry. I never planned to like have a backup plan. It wasn't about that. It was, I was in, I was a senior in high school when nine 11 happened.

And I think it was like my first day of senior year of high school. And I remember that being the scariest part of it to me was realizing that I knew nothing about the world. Right. That I had grown up my whole life in this bubble with a very curated education that didn't teach me about the world and how vulnerable that made me and how scared I felt that I had missed so much of the truth. And so I feel like I had always, like I said,

five years old, I'm like, I'm going to fight for justice, you know? Um, but, but I'd always been deeply curious about the world. And so I wanted to go to college and study for the sake of knowing and learning and bettering myself. And then when I was in college, I had a crisis where I thought, well, I mean, the world is so fucked up. Like, what am I going to be an actress? How's that going to help anything? Right. And, you know, feeling like, okay, well, the only thing I can really do is quit acting. So that's what I'll do.

I'll quit acting and I'll go to school and I'll become whatever, a lawyer or a politician, whatever. Do something to try to make the world better. Yeah. And I had the good fortune of reaching out to one of my professors in his office hours and kind of bringing my crisis to him yeah and it just so happened he was like an older white guy it just so happened that he'd had this latina girl he was mentoring from a nearby high school and that she had come to him and said you know if you really want to understand what my life is like you really want to understand what i'm up against come watch this movie with me. It's called Real Women Have Curves.

And, and that he took her to go see this movie. And then, and then they took the DVD to her parents. And then he had a conversation with her parents about supporting her dream to go to college, like the girl in the movie. And, and that ultimately they did.

And this girl went off to college and that, and that my, that the movie that I was a part of helped that and change like truly changed the direction of that girl's life and it was probably one of the most important moments in in one of the most important moments in my path because um it gave the, I felt like he gave me the permission to keep doing the thing I love to do. That he was saying to me, storytelling matters and that it creates the culture

that tells us what's possible. And so you don't have to ignore what you love and what you're passionate about to help make the world better. to ignore what you love and what you're passionate about to help make the world better. Go towards what you love. And what I loved was storytelling and it was learning about the world. So I just like he gave me this permission to kind of just be all the things that I was. And it still was hard and it was still frustrating.

And I still kind of was always doing double the amount of work and having none of the fun um and kind of frustrated at myself for for for always having to do all the things and then ultimately they started dovetailing finally they started coming together where I could use the platform I had built as an actress to tell stories that, that, that mattered to me stories that I felt like were, you know, whether that was being in a documentary, like years of living dangerously about climate change or half the sky about,

about girls lives all around the world. Like I could, I could finally see like, Oh, I didn't have to pick. I didn't have to pick. I didn't have to choose. Like I actually get to be all the things I want to be and I can make my own path. Yeah.

And were you satisfied like in studying international relations? Did you actually, were you able to educate yourself in the way you wanted to be educated? I mean, I feel like college is wasted on young people. Sure. Yeah. Like here's, oh, okay. So I went to college for a long time. I also didn't know how to study.

I was a straight A kid, kind of almost at the top of my class all through high school. And then I got to college and I was like, nobody has taught me how to learn anything. No one's taught me how to think. No one's taught me to like really learn. I figured out how to get straight A's and be a good student. But so there was a real crisis of confidence there. And so I felt like my earlier years in college,

while obviously they were shaping me as socially and as a person, really getting the education was hard because I didn't know how to receive it. I didn't know what to do with it. And I had to take a hiatus when I got Ugly Betty. I had to take came back to finish my degree. And I was so voracious and happy to be in a learning environment. And like, I loved every single one of my teachers. I'm like, I'm not afraid of you. You're just a really smart person who wants to teach me something. It was like, I was, you know, I was 29.

And I was like, that person, that old person in the class telling 17 year olds, like, pay I was you know I was 29 and I was like that person that old person in the class telling 17 year olds like pay attention you know but it's it almost made me want to go back to grad school which I didn't but it made me feel like I gosh I wish and who knows you know I can't go back and change it but it almost makes sense for like I wish I would have taken time off, been in the world, worked, and then really gone to school. Because I feel like more would have sunken in. I would have like kept more and held on to the education. But, you know. But you went back.

But I went back and I finished my degree. This is after Ugly Betty. This is after Ugly Betty. Oh, my God. That's crazy. It's like, it's great. But like, who does that? Do you know? And it's like, it's, uh, it really speaks to, uh, your, your, your character. Like, cause you wanted to know. Yeah. I did want to know. And it, and it worked.

Yeah. So, okay. So how does, how does Ugly Betty happen? Ugly Betty. Because, like, even that, like, it seemed to, you know, engage politically, engage around, you know, body image stuff. I mean, you had to really, you were put in a position to stand up for a lot of things. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, my first film, Real Women Have Curves, was also about, you know, it was about a lot of things. It was about, you know, the cultural about a lot of things. It was about, you know, the cultural struggle. It was about beauty standards for women. It was about bodies. And, and so that's been a big part of my career and, you know, how I view it and feel about it kind

of changes all the time. I mean, at the time I only felt incredibly grateful that, that, that I was in the right place at the right time to play roles that were perfect for me to step into. So I felt so much gratitude. I felt so lucky, you know, to have an opportunity. Yeah. Like, real women have girls ugly, buddy. Yeah. And I felt like thrilled and proud to be able to step into those roles, make them feel like, you know, that yes, those were elements of it.

But I got to build full character human people that were not defined by their body type or their culture, you know, even though that was kind of the headline. Right. Sure. And then I also felt like I had an opportunity, maybe a little bit of a responsibility. And really, no choice, because it's all anyone wanted to talk about. Which one? When I was 17 and 21 on Real Women and Ugly Betty, it's like, you're a role model and you're breaking boundaries with your body and you're, you know, what's it like to be, what do you have to say to girls who are like you? And so I was young and truthfully just figuring it out for myself, like learning how to like myself. Yeah. But then needing to be like a spokesperson, which I did. And I think I did a good job stepping into that. And I enjoyed

stepping into that. But now kind of looking back, I sort of think like, you know, the fact that my career was focused has been in a lot of ways focused on, you know, my body, what I look like, my culture that I'm breaking bounds. Like that's got nothing to do with me. I didn't, that's not why I did this. I wasn't five years old thinking I want to go be a role model for body positivity and represent every single Latino in the world. I was thinking I want to be an artist. Yeah.

I want to tell stories. I want to be an artist yeah I want to tell stories I want to play people yeah and and and so but it was more about what people what our culture saw when they looked at someone they project onto you and that was my only entry point in I had to embrace myself I had to embrace the conversation I had to embrace the opportunity to speak to it. And I did it. And now I do think of it as an artist. My soul's yearning as an artist is to get to tell stories and be messy and be complicated and try to get beyond all that stuff to a very human story that connects to people in a way that transcends all of that. Transcends body image and race.

And race and culture and all of that, you know? And, you know, not everybody has to always be speaking for every single person who has a body type. Like, have you ever been, like, asked to represent every man who has a body type like you? No, no. But I've never gotten the kind of attention that you've gotten either.

But also, as a public person, you are put in a position to represent what the culture wants you to represent. Right, right. And on some level, it's not a win-win. It's hard to win that. Yeah. I mean, because it's not like you were heavy or different.

You're a normal person. Well, I would agree with you, but that was not the conversation. The conversation was like, wow, you're so outside the norm for who belongs in this spotlight in the tv yeah and and i want to say like i feel like what i'm trying to do is speak to like how it's complicated but but but i also and how like as i get older i look back and go like oh man like i'm glad i did speak up and i'm glad that people do feel seen and that we're having the conversation. But sometimes it would be so nice to just get to be a frickin' artist. Right. But didn't you have to deal with the other side of it, too?

Like, you know, like Ugly Betty, and you're not ugly, but, you know, you became this representation of, you know, of a realistic body image. But then when you tried to, like even when you lost weight, then did they criticize you for that? They talked about it. Yeah, they talked. It's like crazy. Yeah.

So like, you know, you do the right thing and then you just want to take care of yourself or change as a person and then you get shit. Right, right. And I just think like, I think I feel like that's the challenge and the work and also the vehicle for becoming a more, you know, happy person who knows who you are is to like, understand that there's always going to be some conversation, not dictated by you and what you want the conversation to be. As a public person. Yes.

Yeah. In this job. Yeah. As a public person. And I am, it's why I do the job. I want to tell stories that connect and create conversation. Sure. And sometimes the conversation isn't going to be the one you want to be having.

And I, and you know, I think I've learned to just take the opportunities that feel like generative and productive and know that the other stuff is going to be there. And it doesn't really have anything to do with me. It has everything to do with what it sparks in the culture, what it sparks in other people. And I didn't realize that Superstore has actually been on longer than Ugly Betty. Well, it's tricky. Yeah. Because it ran long. Yes, we did more episodes of Superstore than Ugly Betty.

But Ugly Betty was also an hour long. And Superstore was half hour. Oh, yeah, yeah. So probably in total, it was sort of like the same amount of content, you know? How far into Ugly Betty were you when you won the Emmy? It was like the first season. And that's like, that's the other thing. This, like all this attention around being the first Latino.

And still the only. Yeah. How do you feel about that? I mean, it's super. It's kind of crazy. It's a super bummer, you know? Yeah. It's like, we can't win awards for roles that don't exist. Right. Right.

I mean, I've been doing, I've been working for 20 plus years now and it would be nice to see, um, it would be nice to see things changing, you know? Um, and, and we can, as much as we like to point to certain things, like, oh, well, here's a show about Latinos. Right, sure. Like, when you really look at the data, which now we have the Annenberg Center for Inclusion, which does incredible research and kind of makes us, forces us to look at numbers and what's actually happening. and kind of makes us, forces us to look at numbers and what's actually happening. Like the level of invisibility for Latinos in this industry is unchanged in 16 years in reality, you know. And that's a hard thing for me to reconcile sometimes

because I have a freaking fabulous career. Yeah. And my opportunities are changing. And my career is changing. In what direction? I mean, right now I just got nominated for an Academy Award. Like my career is changing. In what direction? I mean, right now, I just got nominated for an Academy Award. Like, it's great. Yeah, yeah.

You know, like, I'm achieving my dreams. And people are inspired by that. And I'm so glad they are. And many things can be true at one time. We look at the larger numbers and at the data, and it like it's been 16 17 years of unchanged percentages which is crazy because the latino population is huge yes and growing yeah and you know it and and it's um it's interesting because you think gosh we've admired this problem for so long we know the problem we've admired the problem so long and and what is it really going to take for people to have the will

to to change it and to shift it and um you know we we got to keep showing up i guess and doing the work and having the conversations but it's interesting though in in another way you succeeded is that it seems like like in superstore and certainly in Barbie and I haven't seen all the stuff but you know it's not a it's not a Latino role yeah that was different for me that's that that has begun to change for me yeah you know where Superstore was the first role that I had been, interestingly, was written Latina. Greta wrote her as a Latina character, but her being Latina had nothing to do with why she was in that movie. It's not like she's in this movie to be the Latina. You know, and so that is different, right?

So that is different, right? Well, I thought they kind of did that with everybody in terms of the inclusion in that movie where, you know, outside of just visually representing, it wasn't written really as any sort of broad character. No, no. It wasn't like, oh, well, she's the Latina one because she's in a sombrero. And he's, you know, it was like, oh, populate it with diversity and let people just be what they are, be humans. So that's interesting because like Ugly Betty, like in terms of the life you were living and knowing that character, you had a personal history of that. Like you could make the connection to your life very easily. Yes. Yeah.

Yeah. No, Betty, I felt very, very close to Betty in terms of her being like the underdog, you know? Yeah, yeah. And kind of in a world that really was like, what are you? Like, what do we do? Where do you fit in here?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was, Ugly Betty and Real Women Have Curves, like a lot of the early things felt like, and even Sisterhood of the early things felt like, and even sisterhood of the traveling pants to an extent, like they felt so close to my experience and that, and that felt, um,

you know, it's why I felt so, uh, so like, Oh, I can do this. Like I know this. And superstore is just more fun. Superstore.

I loved. Yes. Well, superstore is a ton of fun. Yeah. is just more fun? Superstore I loved. Yes. Well, Superstore is a ton of fun. Yeah. But what I loved about Superstore was that it was about working class, everyday people. Right. And that because Justin and his writers were so hilarious that they could take a show in a big box store. Yeah.

That they could take a show in a big box store. Yeah. And like tell a story about America. Yeah. The country. Right. Through the eyes of like the majority of what Americans do. Yeah. They're in retail.

They work retail. They work for these giant corporations. Yes. And they're cogs in a wheel. Yeah. And like I saw from the beginning the opportunity to,I saw, A, how frickin' funny Justin was and how funny the script was and what an incredibly talented writer he was. But to get to, like, use that humor and comedy to tell a story about real Americans—and this was, like, pre-the 2016 election we started this. And then it only got more and more and more relevant and in depth, right?

Right. As we went on. Yeah. Well, now how much were you involved as a producer on that one? I was very, yeah, very involved. I started as a producer and by the end was an executive producer. I also started directing on Superstore. That's when I started directing.

How many eps? I directed about an episode a season. Oh, that's great. And then after that, I executive produced a show for Netflix called Hentified, which is about the gentrification of Boyle Heights. And it was like a half hour. That's ongoing, right? We did two seasons of it oh you mean the gentrification yes the issue and the pushback oh yeah yeah and um and then i i ep'd that and i

directed a number of those episodes as well and that was a longer more comedic dramatic completely different tone and style yeah um do you love it you love it? I love it. Yeah. I love it. Now, have you done a film feature? No, I am preparing my first feature, directorial feature. Oh, really? Yeah. That's exciting.

Yeah, it is. What's the material? I mean. It's based on a, it's kind of full circle. It's different, but it's a coming of age story. It's based on a young adult novel titled I Am Not Your Perfect Mexican Daughter. It's a beautiful, beloved young adult novel written by Erica Sanchez. And you optioned it? brought it to me um i was like kicking myself that i wasn't the one who optioned it but but it got optioned and written by this brilliant screenwriter adapted and then um they came to me and asked me if i would if i would consider directing it and so i've been involved for a

number of years um uh shaping it and also finding the right studio and home for it. And we're in it. We're in the process. So fingers crossed that gets made soon. That's amazing. Yeah. And when you, like, from TV directing to film directing, I mean, how much did you, when you were on set for many of these movies and even working with Greta, were you like over at Video Village seeing what she was doing?

With Greta, I was. Yeah. And also, I knew I was doing with Greta I was yeah and also I knew I was gonna direct yeah before I did Barbie and Greta was so gracious she was like you can be anywhere you want to be she's like you can I and I was I sat in on her and Rodrigo Prieto like shot listing the movie he's a genius he's a genius yeah um and you know to sit there and watch these two geniuses like talk about how about how they're going to shoot the movie. Yeah.

And then she let me, I sat in, in, like, visual effects meetings, you know, special effects meetings. I, you know, I, just all of it. She, I sat next to her. I, at the, at the monitor and just got to watch her. And it was so great. What an incredible opportunity to shadow her. That's amazing. Were you asking questions?

I did, yeah. Because you felt comfortable enough to do that? Yeah. And she's pretty accessible. Yes. And I honestly have never met anyone who loves movies more than Greta. Yeah.

Like, probably Noah. She and Noah. Sure. You know, together, it's like such a big part of what they love. And I think that, like, she would be happy to talk about movies all day. Oh, yeah, yeah. So it was great because she was such an open book and loved talking to me about it. That's an amazing opportunity.

That's so good. Yeah, I know. Oh, my God. It's like going to school. Yeah, it's great. Oh, that must have helped so much. So, like, now it just broadens your whole brain. You know, as you go back to college, you learn the world, and then you just be on a movie set, and then you've got the whole thing, working with the best.

Yeah. You've got the whole thing working with the best. Yeah. Now, to get back to this monologue, because it's a nice bookend, how many times you do it? There's no way to know for sure. I mean, there is, but I don't know how to call the... Yeah. I would guess... We shot it over two days.

That one scene. That one scene. That one scene, because it was inside of a larger scene. Yeah. And there were like 12 actors in the scene in Weird Barbie's house, and everyone speaks, and it's a big scene. And in the middle of it is my monologue, and then the scene keeps going. Yeah. So we, you know, and the way it was blocked, we'd run the whole scene, including my monologue, top to bottom for two days. Yeah.

Was it evolving? Totally. Really? Yeah, yeah. Oh, my God. It changed so much. I mean, also just like putting it in my body in that way. It's one thing to sit and read it to yourself or whatever, but to be in the space with the other actors and really embodying it it's just like getting the time to sit with it um and let it really kind of um yeah find a place that that

that uh and it found many places and yeah that was the one thing in the process with greta that felt different than everything else because Greta is incredibly musical. She started out as a dancer. Really? I didn't know that. Yeah. I feel like I should know that. Dance was her first,

I mean, I'm speaking for her, but what she said to me, dance was like her first love in the arts. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so a lot of the things she does has dancer,

you know, I love the, I love that there, that there is a musical feeling to it. Yes. And for her, that was inspired by her love of sort of stage musicals. Oh, yeah, I knew that. Like Singing in the Rain and Wizard of Oz. And so there's music in the movie, but even the non-musical moments were sing-songy.

And they had a lyrical sense. The way it was written was lyrical. And the way she heard it was so specific. And she really would, and Ryan says this, she was tuning us all the time. And she really was. She'd close her eyes and have us run a scene. And it was more about what it sounded like.

And if it was like, is that the right note? Is this the right pace? Are we really, you know, are we hitting the notes? And so everything was very like, it's this speed. It's this tone. It's, you know, it was very specific. I mean, and it was still free and everything. It wasn't rigid, but it was specific. She was just trying to get you to understand her point of view. And she heard it. Huh. I mean, and it was still free and everything. It wasn't rigid, but it was specific.

She was just trying to get you to understand her point of view. And she heard it. Yeah. But with the monologue, which, which is like literally a page, a page of dialogue. Yeah.

Um, I was like, okay, okay. We didn't really rehearse it that way. We talked about it a lot, but we didn't rehearse it. What was the conversations

about mostly themes or like what it was it was it was a lot about we shared a lot back and forth between like poetry and songs and episodes of tv shows and articles and op-eds like everything that kind of felt like related to the monologue, we spent months kind of sharing to kind of have a common language around what is the essence of what's happening here. And then I remember closer to shooting, we had a rehearsal at her house

that she was staying at in London and we sat on her couch and like that felt more like it was making it incredibly personal, you know, which I don't know how to do it any other way as an actress, but to make it deeply personal. And that was about kind of us relating it to us, you know, she and I, and what how this plays in our life and and um and then on the day I was like what is what is this supposed to sound like you know I was like

is is this supposed to be funny or is it just drama or is it you know is it fat you want me to keep it up like is it supposed to sound like everything else in Barbie land? And she really just like, was the only time that looked at me and was like, I just want you to find it. And she gave me so much freedom. And there were takes, there were takes that had hysterical laughing. There were takes that had hysterical laughing. There were takes that had hysterical tears. There were incredibly angry takes. And, you know, and like that, you know, it went so many different places.

And then I did it so many different times. And I had no idea. I'm like, I'm given, I'm literally like, and not because I was like looking for, it was just like, okay, I'll just drop into it and see where it goes this time. You know, it wasn't like, now I'll do a funny take. Now I'll do, it was just like, each time it was just find a thread, pull it and follow the thread. And they were all subtly different? And they were all very different. And so when it was done, I was like, she's going to have to decide and she's gonna have to find it and and and and I was

you know very confident that that she would and that it was in there that it was you did it yeah I think the other question was like how does this like how does this fit into the rest of the movie right well I mean it seems to me like now before i say that but did you add stuff on the day we didn't add stuff on the day no there was no improv oh yeah um we had talked about certain so you built it out we built some things in we tweaked and right but it seems like from months before she knew it was like going to define third act, if not be the centerpiece of the movie. Yes. When she first sent me the script, she said, I wrote this thing that I'm calling Gloria's Aria.

And it's the moment that shifts and changes everything. And so from the beginning, she was like, there's this thing and I want it to be you. And it was just felt like a, it just felt like a dream. Like it's just something I never expected. But your responsibility

in the movie is kind of, I'm just thinking out loud now. I mean, you are the human. Yeah. Really? Yeah. The only human. Yeah. And your daughter. And my daughter, yeah, Ariana. Because the corporate guys aren the human. Yeah. Really? Yeah. The only human. Yeah.

And your daughter. And my daughter, yeah, Ariana. Because the corporate guys aren't human. No, they're like, yeah. It's, that's, so the whole movie hinges on your humanity in a way. Yeah. I mean, it, yeah, yeah, you're welcome. You're welcome for representing all of humanity.

I, it're welcome. You're welcome for representing all of humanity. It was challenging. You know what was challenging was how hard it was to not give in to the energy of Barbie land. Like everyone's like dancing and singing and it's Barbie land and everything's heightened. And I'm like, I want to do that. And it's like, oh, I'm not here to do that. I'm here to be the human. Words and all. And so, yeah, there was. The harder. Not the harder. But the thing I had to unlock for myself in playing the character was. has a childlike imagination and desire and a need to play and suspend disbelief and believe that Barbie's coming for her and taking her into the real world. There's a childlike yearning there. And she's deeply, deeply human, frustrated frustrated she's a real woman she knows the disappointment of life challenges challenges and and also you know her her teen daughter is like pulling away

from her and making her feel kind of rejected and so so it so it was, you know, all these very real human feelings coupled with the fantastical energy of a child in one woman's body. And when I started out, that seemed like, how am I going to play that? And, and actually what I realized is like, I am that. And we're just so not used to seeing women get to be all those things. Like that she gets to be taken seriously and be real and be considered deep and smart and all the things and get to seek play and childlike wonder. And so it was sort of like in a way through the process of being Gloria, finding for giving myself, America, the permission to be more of what I am. Yeah, that's great. So it was a really deep journey. Life-changing.

Yeah. Of course. Yeah. It seems like between that and that professor, those were big moments. Yeah, we've got an autobiography there. Yeah, I think so. So now you're just working on the movie you're going to direct and waiting for the big show. I have my next acting job, gig.

You do? Yeah, that I'm really excited about. Which, by the way, is always the only thing that I want as an actor, is like another job, like another chance to do it again, you know? The one that you're excited about is good. Yeah, and one that I'm excited about. Who are you working with? It's not announced, I'm not allowed to say, but it's

exciting. I'm very excited about it. And, um, and so it's that, and then simultaneously, you know, um, trying to push the movie into production, my, my movie that I'm directing. Great. So nice talking to you. Thanks for doing it. I didn't get you in trouble. No. it thanks i didn't get you in trouble no okay right pretty good we just she just got into it nice talk barbie is obviously everywhere you can see it streaming on max tomorrow's episode features rodrigo prieto the cinematographer of both Barbie and Killers of the Flower Moon. Monday is Best Actress nominee Lily Gladstone. This podcast is hosted by ACAST. And take it easy. Thank you. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence.

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