WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1518 - Ben Mendelsohn

Episode Date: March 4, 2024

Ben Mendelsohn is a prolific actor with a dynamic range, and yet most of his training came from watching movies as a young kid in Australia and learning from the stars he saw on screen. Ben and Marc talk about their shared love of AC/DC, the social gravity of Australia, and the enjoyment of doing nothing. They also dive into some of Ben’s notable roles in Animal Kingdom, Babyteeth and his portrayal of Christian Dior in the series The New Look. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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That's squarespace.com slash WTF. Offer code WTF. Whoo, yeah. Lock the gate! Yeah All right, let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies What the fuck next how's it going with you? How is it going there? What's happening with you and yours?

Are you okay? Okay is good. Okay is the new good. Today I'm gonna talk to Ben Mendelsen. He's like these Australian actors. I don't know what it is about the terrain, the air. I don't know, but a lot of them are fucking great. And this guy's fucking great. You might know him from the movie Animal Kingdom.

He was in The Dark Knight Rises, The King, Darkest Hour. My favorites, the ones I saw him in where I'm like, who the fuck is this guy? Was an Australian movie called Baby Teeth and the Nicole Hallow Center's Land of Steady Habits. And I was like, oh my God, what's up with this guy? And this thing he's in now, this series, he's playing Christian Dior in the new Apple TV plus series, The New Look.

And it's great because I had no idea about, I don't know about history. I didn't know, I mean, I kind of knew, but I guess it's not at the tip of my brain, the tip of my tongue, the Nazi occupation of France and how that might have affected the French and what was going on in France, but this is specifically around the fashion industry during the occupation with Dior and Coco Chanel, played by Juliette Benoche, who I haven't seen in a while, have you? I guess she's around, but goddamn, she was great. John Malkovich is great in this. Now, look, you know, when I talk about Malkovich, I'm not saying diminishing his amazing chops as an actor. It's just sometimes he's the only thing you can look at.

He's the only thing that's pulling you in. He goes for it. But this one in this miniseries, he's not low-keeper, say, but he's locked into a subtler character and it was great. Great to see. And Mendelssohn is great. It's, I found it, not only a beautiful story about the beginnings of Dior, but historic perspective on the occupation of France and just shot well. And I don't know.

I don't, I thought it was great. And he's going to talk about that a bit and about his career and about Australia, you know, this stuff. I know that some of you are getting tired of hearing my tour dates, but I'm going to do them because this is how I put it out in the world. I'm in Portland this Thursday, March 7th

at the State Theater. I'm in Medford, Massachusetts at the Chevalier Theater on Friday, March 8th. the State Theatre, I'm in Medford, Massachusetts at the Chevalier Theatre on Friday, March 8th. That's just outside of Boston. It's right next to Cambridge. Providence, Rhode Island at the Strand Theatre on Saturday, March 9th. Tarrytown, New York at the Tarrytown Music Hall on Sunday, March 10th.

Later on March, I'm in Atlanta, Georgia at the Buckhead Theatre on Friday, the 22nd. That's close to selling out. Boise, Idaho, I'm at the Egyptian Theatre on Saturday, March 23rd as part of Comedy Ford at Treefort Music Fest. Madison, Wisconsin at the Barrymore Theatre on Wednesday, April 3rd. Milwaukee, Wisconsin at the Turner Hall Ballroom on Thursday, April 4th. Chicago at the Vic Theatre on Friday, April 5th. Minneapolis at the Pantages Theatre on Saturday, April 6th, Austin, Texas at the Paramount on Thursday, April 18th, part of Moontower Comedy Festival, Montclair, New Jersey on Thursday, May 2nd at the Willmont Center, Glenside, Pennsylvania in the Philly

area Friday, May 3rd at the Keswick, and Washington, D.C. on Saturday, May 4th at the Warner Theater, WTFPod.com slash tour for tickets. Pow, I just shit my pants, just coffee.coop, a classic from the vault ad. Think of what's happening in your life over the past 10 years, people. I bet there's a lot of changes for me too, but there's at least one thing that hasn't changed for more than 10 years,

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and of course get major discounts on U.S. postal service and U UPS rates up to 89% off. Keep supporting WTF by signing up for my longest running partner, Stamps.com, today. Sign up with promo code WTF for a special offer that includes a four-week trial plus free postage and a free digital scale, no long-term commitments or contracts. Just go to Stamps.com, click on the microphone at the top of the page and enter code WTF. Oh man. I don't know if you saw this, but Keith Richards has done a cover of Lou Reads, I'm Waiting for My Man. Now look, you guys know how I feel about Keith, but I struggle with a lot

of this stuff because there's a lot of boomers, There's a lot of people of his age group who are artists and musicians and actors and comedians where I'm like, you know, hang it up. But I'll be honest with you, man. There's something that I get. I just get excited. Like I didn't care about the Last Stones album really. I mean that blue and lonesome one's great. That was a few years ago, but the last regular Stones album is good, I'm fine, but I didn't care. And I got it, I listened to it once. Keith Richards is part of this tribute album for Lou Reed, and they did a video with Jordan on drums

and Keith playing like all the guitars of the very basic I'm Waiting for My Man. And just to respect that Keith is affording Lou and the fact that out of all of them, that the entire arc of modern rock and roll that Keith is affording Lou and the fact that out of all of them, that the entire arc of modern rock and roll that Keith is the last man standing in a lot of ways, but still vital somehow, that there's still this this element of Keith. I'm excited to see him. Look, I know he's old. He doesn't look the same. He's got a little pop belly now, but there's some part about the sort of earned and always present giving zero fucks of Keith Richards,

that is, it's an inspiration to me. He's inspirational. I mean, it's an aspiration for me to give less fucks. It seems to happen more with age, but these musicians, like, it's a whole life of being in the studio. That's your life and making things. I'm just out here, you know, yammering on about myself. And I feel like, I don't know, it's not that that ship has sailed, but this is beside the point. I was thrilled to see Keith

covering this song. Keith is the heart of fucking rock and roll, certainly modern rock and roll, and he goes all the way up through everybody. You know, I mean, I ended up watching that video, you know, four or five times. And then somehow on YouTube, I got back to some video there. It's like the Rolling Stones live at the Marquis Club in 1971 doing Midnight Rambler, which is really probably my favorite stone song

in some ways. And there's just something about the simplicity, the rawness, the impulsiveness, the sloppiness of Keith Richards. It's just the heart of the whole fucking thing. You know that that freedom of fuck you with effortless fuck you and effortless zero fucks is that's it man and that midnight rambler is crazy I watched it like four or five times I played along with it it's a simple song but there's just the way he constructs simple riffs where it's like in this lifetime mystery I rift a little bit on I'm waiting for my man at the end of this at the end of this podcast and thereift a little bit on, I'm waiting for my man at the end of this, at the end of this podcast. And there's a little, a little, I missed it a few times the way he pulls off of that C note on the G chord. I got it a few times, but like these things, they take a lifetime sometimes,

or hours at least in the studio if you're a musician to just nail it. But I don't know, man. nail it but I don't know man it's just there's something about Keith that you know has you know been in my heart forever and that's just not music I'm happy I'm happy to see him like my grandfather like I look here he comes look at him but he's doing a song about dope so it's got all that extra added menace but the fact that he's he's the heart of it the heart of raunchy fucking raw Angry fuck you zero fuck rock and roll He he inspired one way or the other either you know through six degrees three degrees four degrees five degrees

separation like all generation of rock. And he's the guy still alive. And like half of them are fucking dead. Generations before him. Go watch that thing. It's pretty good. Especially, but see, I can look at Billy Joe.

I'm like, why is this old guy doing? Like Billy Joe got a new song on him. I'm like, eh, I don't care. I haven't cared about a Billy Joe song in forever. And again, don't care a lot about the new Rolling Stones music But if Keith does something I'm like, I'll check it out Look at that guy Look at Keith

Look at fucking Keith fucking to put my Keith beanie on and play my guitar It's the beginning of March people which means spring is almost here Which means longer days and more time outside, but when you're out of the house You got to protect your home. Believe me. Of more time outside. But when you're out of the house, you gotta protect your home, believe me. Of course you have to. So when you're not at home, get the peace of mind you need

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with SimplySafe's 60-day risk-free trial. Don't love your system. Return it for a full refund. Protect your home today. WTF listeners get a special 20% off any new SimplySafe system when you sign up for fast protect monitoring. Just visit simplysafe.com slash WTF. Don't wait! That's simplys safe.com slash WTF. Before I forget, I wanted to bring up that my friend, the hilarious Faheem Anwar, or Faheem Anwar, he's got a new special out called House Money. It's on his YouTube channel, YouTube.com slash Faheem Anwar. Very funny fella. He's been on here before, but go watch his new special.

Now, my guest, as I said, great actor. One of the best really. The new look is streaming now on Apple TV Plus. The first five episodes are up now with new episodes every Wednesday. I watched the whole thing, it was great. His movies are great. Ben Mendelssohn is here, and I'm gonna talk to him now.

Calgary is a city built by innovators. Innovation is in the city's DNA. And it's with this pedigree that bright minds and future thinking problem solvers are tackling some of the world's greatest challenges from right here in Calgary. From cleaner energy, safe and secure food, efficient movement of goods and people, and better health solutions, Calgary's visionaries are turning heads around the globe across all sectors each and every day. Calgary's on the right path forward. Take a closer

look how at CalgaryEconomicDevelopment.com. First off, let's talk about the truck. So you grew up liking trucks. So I grew up all over the place, but the most formative time was in the out of suburbs of Melbourne, which is pretty sort of rough and tumble. I like it. I like Melbourne. Yeah Yeah, yeah, it's rough and tumble. You mean like rural wise or people? No, people wise People wise. I'm talking about the out of suburbs. Yeah, I mean you'd take what is it out of serve of mean in Australia? It would be like a sort of, you know, Lancastery You know what I mean like why out of and tell me I ask you another question Do you only know Lancaster because you had a shoot there?

Um, yeah, cause I shoot there and cause I've, you know, I know a couple of people from out that way and whatnot. Really? Well, it makes sense. Sure. If you want to have access to LA, you know, it's affordable. Yeah, you know what I mean? Yeah, that's sort of the desert though.

It's kind of the desert. Yeah. We didn't live out in the desert. It was kind of very, a lot of bush and stuff. Sure. Sure. Muscle cars were, you know, very loved. How old are you? I'm 50. Damn. What am I? 53? 54? Oh, that's so you're a little younger than me. But yeah, but like, I, because I grew up in New Mexico, muscle cars were important, but they were real cars then. Oh, they were. I mean, you know, I mean, you know, I loved them and I had a Monaro, which is kind of like a charger. Oh, yeah. What is that in Australian car?

Yeah, yeah, it's a really beloved Australian. A Monaro? Yeah, Monaro. There were two. Monaro was made by Holden, which is essentially GM. Yeah. And And the GT, which was the Ford, my car. Well, I had no idea that there was Australian cars. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, you don't hear about that. You hear about Australian bugs and snakes. You don't hear about Australian cars. Well, you know, think about Mad Max, mate.

I mean, you know, like that's essentially an apocalyptic movie about running out of gas. Remember in the 70s, that was the whole thing? We were going to run out of gas. People were filling up tanks, getting online. Well, yeah, and in 20 or 30 years, that was it. We were gonna be in trouble, la la la. Back to your thing of apocalyptic shelf.

So how old were you when Mad Max came out? When Mad Max came out was about, what was it, 1979? I would have been 10. So you weren't working yet? No, but I wasn't, actually I wasn't far, it was only another four years till I started working. So what was the impact of Mad Max on the Australian youth? Well, okay, so there's Mad Max one,

but then there's Mad Max two, which you guys know as the road warrior. Mad Max two was phenomenal. That, and that's the same period that I'm living out in these outer suburbs. Right. And I consider it the most important Australian movie ever made just because of the impact.

Sure. And then it sort of introduced the world to Australian talent. Oh yeah, well you had Mel, you know. That's crazy, right? Yeah, and you and I, what a god. God of our cinema. God of cinema and jail. And that first one one that was like rough

It was like an indie movie. It was very much It was the gang and they were right, you know They were driving around and whatnot and he's there in the cops and he's got his V8 intercept It doesn't his wife get killed in the first one. Yeah, yeah, and so it's it's a great shot Yeah, it's a great shot of that. He running up and all that. Yeah horrendous. Yeah. So, have you worked with him with Mel? Yeah. No, I haven't. No, I haven't. Have you met him?

Yeah, yeah. A bunch of times. Yeah? Yeah. And do you do the Australian thing, whatever that is? Oh, yeah. You know, I mean, you know, we talk about Australia and stuff like that. Yeah, he's, I love him. He's a, he's, he might, he might have a pocalyptus. Come on. That's some movie.

Oh, it's incredible. Yeah, you like that? Oh, it's incredible. Yeah, you like that? It's incredible. Oh, it's incredible. You know, it's a, what's the other one, The Passion of the Christ? Yeah.

Which oddly, even though it is what it is, is the pretty incredible movie. Look, he's an incredible talent. I mean, like he's a, yeah, I mean, you know, like, yeah, people get all involved in the Sturman Drunk stuff, but you sit back and think about the body of work, the contribution to the business, it's pretty.

It gets a little dicey, you know, when people's personal reputation starts to overshadow their work, but like with a guy like him and as a Jew, you're sort of like, I don't know how comfortable I am in general, but nonetheless, I can still appreciate the movies. I can entertain both sides well

And that's you know like yeah, and that this new look thing which I'm essentially here to talk to you about You know it's something which has a similar kind of you know people I got up as a concern blah blah as well But I gotta tell you I you know I've watched six of them. Oh, okay, so I'm almost done with it Yeah, and it's stunning. Thank you. And I don't like, it's moving and I don't know, you know, where, cause I've seen a lot of your movies, I can't do the whole filmography.

I didn't have time. No, no, please. You know, like, yeah. But I, you know, and maybe I'm wrong, but I think this is one of your great roles. Did you feel that? I love him more than anyone I've ever played. Like I had a feeling about him and stuff.

About Christian Dior. Yeah, I think Christian's the... I adore him and I can't do him justice, but I can aim for it. So when you come into something like this, because for me, I didn't know anything about this story about Him or Coco Chanel or in the framing of it about France, you know during the occupation and then after the occupation And I didn't even know that historically yet stuff. Yeah, did you going in well?

I knew about the occupation Sure, etc. But I about the fashion stuff that going on in it No never even crossed my mind. And I don't think I've seen a better depiction of the politics and the nature of collaborating with fascists in such a kind of intimate and almost the survival element, you sort of understand that people do

what they have to do to survive. But the difference between what happened with Christian, is that how you say it? Dior. You said however you want to say it. And Coco Chanel and how they handled the occupation. Dior being not a known person. He's just a guy working for Lucia Lelon.

Yeah, and Chanel being a known person. But the politics and the survival and the sort of business elements of dealing with the Nazis, I'd never seen anything depicted like that. And then Dior's sister, you know, as part of the resistance, I just, as a historical thing and as a guy who's watched enough Nazi movies. I've never seen this element. I think Adams done an extraordinary job of taking the historical record and these characters and Being curious enough about how people would be in this situation

Sure and basically letting us go, you know go for it. But it's very specific in that way. But in a more universal way, it's just sort of, to me, the hook for Dior was about how he feels about himself in the world versus how he feels about himself privately. And I think how you survive, how you can contribute, how you can do the best you can. Yeah. Is really the you know really the soul of what that's about. But also playing all that grief. Oh yeah. I

mean yeah with with his sister well it's awful. Yeah. I mean it's an awful situation and he is you know he does everything he can to get her back. It's crazy man. It's it's a it's such a powerful performance and so it's so controlled. You know, like, I don't know... And I know, you know, talking about acting, but just as somebody who tries to do it occasionally. And oddly, the, you know, the first time I ever really sort of was brought, you were brought to my attention was by, you know, Lynn Shelton, who was my partner, director, film director, and she passed away, but she was all about that Nicole Hoff Center film. Oh wow, yeah, yeah.

Oh, I loved getting to work with Nicole. I mean, that was such an honor to me. Yeah, that was like the land of steady habits. Yes, it's such an interesting zone of character, that guy. Yeah. But like when you're doing something like Dior, so what is like, what are the, like, what do you put in your, like what was the research?

I'm just curious for myself. Cause you get offered this role and you don't know anything about it. It just comes to you, right? A script and then it's like a 10 part thing. Yeah. And this is the guy. Yeah.

So what do you do? I watch him. I try and see what I can get on. You get footage. You know, get footage. I watch him. Yeah. That's the most important.

With a historical figure. Or with somebody who's real. Yeah, with anyone that you can play that's real, you just try watching them. Yeah, yeah. You get a sense of, you know, just to get a sense of them. You get a much more intimate sense of people. I played Rupert Murdoch once and that was my same sort of thing. I had an idea of what the story was about, but then I watched him. And when I watched him, there are things that cut across

the ideas that are being put forward in the script. You try to marry them up and do the best you can. So there's this one interview that he did with Ed, I forget, it's an American TV show and Christian's about to open his show in New York or something. Like in the 80s or something? No, no, no, way back. Christian Dior passes away like when he's 54. Oh really? Yeah, yeah. I had no idea. Does that happen in the series?

Oh well, no spoilers. No spoilers. No spoilers, but yeah, no. So the name lived on forever. Well, thus far. And you know, you go past those stores and this and that and they just, they don't mean what they, you know. Well yeah, that's the whole other thing

about post-war France and about the power of fashion and the intention of Dior to bring back some sort of vitality and life. Yeah, he wanted to make the world beautiful again. He really had, he was an incredibly principled person. You know, he had all these friends who were designed. He didn't want to tread on any of their toes. What he wanted to do was dress 30 women around the world, but that wasn't going to fly with his back as a one-eyed. With the big business, yeah. So, but he really brought in the economic

miracle of post-war France because the amount of fabrics and stuff that he used in his dresses is one of the really significant drivers of the economic recovery. So he becomes a really, really crucial figure. So he was putting out that many enough dresses too. Oh my Lord, he was colossal in the immediate post-war period. Christian Dior and the Couture and whatnot. And the changeover from Hort couture to, you know, pretoporte. Um,

whether it is that changeover or tell me, I'm not across it completely, but basically in the old days, right? Very wealthy people would go to a design and they would get, you know, they would change up seven times a day. And these costumes had enormous amounts of fabric and whatnot, but they would change seven times a day.

So these designers would make that. That's called hot couture. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then, you know, the ready to wear stuff, which is what you go into a shop and buy. Sure, sure, sure. That's much more mass produced. So that stuff, the drivers of that,

you know, we were enormous on the economy. Oh, wow. And enormous as well, just on the way the world felt Yeah, you know and he was really coming from wanting to go back to his childhood and bring back the best times He had and the only way to connect with his mum was to go out in the garden with her and You know hang out in garden. Yeah, and so all these flowers and stuff and of that period Yeah, I really deeply imprinted on him. So he takes those shapes and those things, puts them on and that's it.

So okay, so you're watching old footage of this guy. And had you done French accent before? No, I hadn't. No. You know what's amazing about this series is that Malkovich reigned it in. I couldn't believe it because like anytime I see Malkovich and I it in. Like he, it was, I couldn't believe it because like anytime I see Malkovich, and I've said this before and I don't mean it as an insult,

but most of the time, if Malkovich is in a movie, there's the movie that he's in and the movie that he's doing. Well, listen, I don't share that view, but he's very controlled this time. I mean, very sweet. Listen, he's the loveliest guy. He lives in France a lot of the time. So, his French is impeccable. He's an absolute

no genius. He just knows so much. He's so intense. That's just the sort of, I don't mean it as a criticism because I love the guy. I've seen him on stage. I've seen him do stuff. I'd love to see him on stage. I saw him do Burn This in New York. Oh wow. And it was crazy because I was a huge fan

because I liked those kind of guys that were full of that kind of heat and he can really bring the heat. Oh, he's got, he's a powerhouse. I mean, he studied to be a director, right? Yeah. And then they obviously did the step and wolf thing, et cetera, et cetera.

But he works, he is the James Brown of, you know, film and television and theater. How so? He is working all the time. So are you? No, no, no, not like Malkovich. I'm like a lazy sort of, you know, well pampered marshmallow compared to Malkovich. Malkovich is going and working on this and then he's going here, then he's going there. He does all these things on stage, opera pieces, this, that, the other. He's got the most intense sort of working life of anyone I've ever met.

Yeah, you know, in our business. Yeah, I think about that a lot these days. Like when I see people that work that much and they keep working on into their 70s and stuff. Oh, yoyoy. But there's part of me that's sort of like, aren't we doing this to stop? I don't know.

Yeah, listen, I know what you mean. I've been going for 40 years and you spend 40 years on sets. Yeah. And yeah. Yeah, that's the other thing that I can't, like I can't quite wrap my brain around in terms of the acting I've done,

because I don't live the life of an actor. You know, I do comedy and I do this and I do things that I, you know, like, but you know, just the idea of like, all right, we're gonna be shooting for six months in Siberia, we'll get you a good trailer. And then it just really becomes about, you know, the negotiations around trailers.

Oh, look, all of the signifiers of that. Yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, I've had my moments with that. And it's really, it's truly where the false gods are. But, but it's like that is part, that's the whole job is keeping your shit together in the trailer. Well, yes and no. I mean, you know, like, I think actually losing your shit

in the trailer and keeping your shit together on when you when you're shooting is probably It's probably a better better approach. It's like that's that's seen in in Once upon a time in Hollywood. Did you see that the Tarantino movie? Yeah, absolutely where we're a Caprio lose shit in the trailer and breakage and goes out and does that Awesome. God, that's it's got such beautiful out and does that same and it's awesome God That's it's got such beautiful. I mean, yeah, it's beautiful stuff. It's good stuff about acting Yeah, but it's like I guess losing your shit

I don't know what what it is But there there comes a point with me and I think I'll learn it as time goes on where where you're waiting for them to set up a Shot and then you know you even if you know, and obviously you do, how long these things take, at some point you're like, what the fuck are they doing? Well, I think you see, because you work with your emotions, right? And so if you can't, if you're closing all the taps down, then, you know, it's just sort of all bubbling up inside.

So, you know, you talk whatever you need to talk. You're like, it's about here, it's about there. I can't work effectively if I'm not sort of prattling off one way here or there. So it's always, yeah, it's yeah. And it doesn't matter because at the end of the day, the audience is the alpha and the omega of the exercise. So it really is unimportant unless you are bringing, you're being injurious to people. So it really is unimportant unless you are bringing you being injurious to people. Right. And you know, and you, or you can't say sorry or all that sort of stuff unless you're one of those guys.

Right. You know, like the need, the ability to apologize properly is important. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. If you're like, because you can forget the effect that you have on other people, you of course, we all feel like it's happening to us. Yes. And in fact, you know, you can be part of what's happening to them. Yes. And once that occurs, you need to be able to go, hey, listen,

my bad, you know, my bad. Of course. And it chills everything out. And once people sort of understand each other, they're just like, oh, yeah, yeah. He's just, you know, right. That's that's this process. Yeah. He's just that's this process. She's crying, but he'll apologize. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

And that takes time. And then once that all clicks in, then you're in the ride. And you form real attachments with people you work with. And then it's gone. It's gone. It's gone. It took me years doing the show to realize that actors don't hang out with each other after amazing movies.

No, very, very very rarely. I mean we know each other, we sort of adore each other, but it's very rare that you You're palling around. Yeah, very rare. Isn't that weird? It is weird, but it's it's it's it's it's a you know It's a carnival life. It's a circus life. I guess so and once the show is over Yeah, you form up for the next one you go you go to your real life. Well, yeah, or whatever real life you can manage in amongst those hours. That's part of the thing too. So you find that being, when you're in your down timer, or in, I wanna do nothing.

When I'm down, Tom, you do absolutely nothing. Really? Like literally? As little as I can. I actually just love being at home. You know, like here, there, wherever. Do you spend time there still? Yeah, sometimes. I haven't been back there for, yeah, not for a bit.

I was there last year, but yeah, I haven't been back there. Well, it was last year. Yeah, last year I was there. No, and I'll probably move from here soon, you know. Where to? You know. Secret space. Well, yeah, let's see. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just leave all that. But you've had enough? I think it's, you know, I think, you know, you can live wherever you want. Really? Well, yeah, I think I'm more or less. Yeah, more or less. Yeah, not too far. Not too far. I mean, I want to, I've been to Mongolia. It's an amazing place, but I wouldn't

want to have a second home there. I just don't know what the internet connections like in a year. How do I get a tape? How do I get a video out? Yeah, you want to see me read for something from Mongolia? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's a bit. It's you know It's a long way to Ullambatur If you want to rock and roll tour if you want to rock and roll. Oh that band. Well that band. And they at that time of course they are the they are the absolute alpha and omega. We were listening to Dirty Deeds Dundee Chipps. The best. TNT which you guys have as high voltage. Yes high voltage is the best. Well and TNT is even better because it's the Australian version it's got a better

track list what was it. Oh yeah it's it's it's version. It's got a better track list. What was it? Oh, yeah It's it's it's it's my favorite of their album and then back in black of course came out Yeah, and that's we were very worried about back in black before it came. I was worried about it Yeah, it was it was a real concern and boy boy did they come back They deliver it because like after highway to hell you're like they're here man. They've done it Yeah, and then he dies. Yeah, and then back in black But it was like, it was really a Bond Scott record without Bond Scott.

Yeah, very much. And I mean, look, Brian Johnson's has just did an incredible job. And the, but you know, the nods, the gentle nods to Bond. And they're not sentimental in any wet way, but they're very Australianly, you know, appropriate. Yeah. But you gotta understand,

like for you guys, highway to hell, they really arrived. But for us, we had years and years of support. For me, it was probably, it was that first one that we got as high voltage. And then also, powerage, those are mine. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, like, and I still listen to them regularly. Me too. You do. Oh, FES. Yeah, I mean like and I still listen to him regularly me too. You do oh f. Yes Yeah, I mean can say they're so they're so just fundamental

Elemental Chuck Berry on you know, you know the absolute fundamentals of the rhythm Yeah, Angus, you know is the greatest lead guitar player the way I mean he's um, did you see him when you were a kid? I know I didn't I really wanted to go and in fact dirty Dates done to dirt cheap was the first album. I ever wanted I asked my mom and Well, I would have been seven or something. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and and you know, she wouldn't do it I just she got me little river band instead. Oh, which I know I love that album I saw them on their first American tour and I believe- Hold on, when was this? When was it?

It was like, it was in the 70s. I was in high school. Oh my God. Oh my God. And I believe that the story, and I've told it before, is that my recollection is that they were opening for Journey. Sounds right.

And sadly, I'd gone to see Journey. Oh. And I didn't know, they're all right, but I didn't know about the power of AC DC because they weren't that out yet And I was right up front, you know, and I watched Bond and I didn't even know what was happening So this is you because you know the live album if you want blood Yeah, so it's that kind of period that you talk about that that I believe is recorded largely in Glasgow It was in Glasgow and then there's the movie. Did you ever see the movie? No, I haven't. No, in fact, Warren, Warren Ellis, the great, you know, the great, uh,

Fiddle player. Fiddle, the guy who works with Nick Cave, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Doty 3 before that. He is insane, AC DC fan. He'll be 11 and a Bond Scott. Yeah. In fact, I got a bobblehead of Bond Scott that I found, which I'm gonna give to Warren. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, really? When I, yeah, yeah. I found it as'm gonna give to Warren. Oh, yeah. Oh really? Yeah. I found it. Yeah, Kate Simon, the photographer, she does pictures, a lot of music pictures. She has, she gave me a shot because I interviewed her of them on their first press tour. It must have been 75. Maybe that's right. I believe so. So it's a picture of them that's never been out. I have it. It's kind of an interesting little shot. I'll show it to you after. Oh, I don't even know. I want to see that.

It's kind of... they're so young. Oh, no, I want to see that. Do you mind if I take a... No, yeah, we'll get it. Just remind me after we're done. Okay, no, don't worry. I'll be right back. So, were there other... like, what was the music scene? You seem like a music guy, so you're in Australia. Who are you going to see? Do you know Nick Cave? Huh? Do you know Nick Cave?

Yeah, yeah. I don't know him. I've met him and I was around in the same suburbs at the time. Do you were around for birthday party? No, the birthday party I wasn't around, but I also, Roland I knew as well, Roland who was a guitar player. And they were phenomenal. But the thing about Melbourne is,

Melbourne doesn't give a fuck about anything except the football. And so you could be in whatever they didn't give a fuck about the birthday party and all this stuff at the time yeah they didn't you know yeah yeah in general they didn't give a fuck yeah they care about footy yeah Australian rules yeah yeah yeah so anything else you're doing you can sort of do in your little bubble yeah and the city at large is like yeah whatever mate yeah it's playing with carlton isn't an appliance they don't

care they don't you know yeah don't, you know, yeah. And that's kind of provincial. Yeah, but no, it allows for a certain strength, right? Because you can just sort of go for it in whatever corner you're doing your thing. Yeah. The city at large is, you know, yeah, concentrated on the gladiatorial weekend game.

Yeah. And are you a football guy? Yeah, no, I'm a rugby league guy because I moved out of Melbourne and lived in Sydney for a very long time. And then I became a fanatic for a team called the Melbourne Storm. Yeah. And that game's not played in Melbourne. Yeah. But yeah. Because I've been to Melbourne a couple of times and it felt like almost like Boston. It felt kind of, you know, it was I thought it was very sophisticated somehow.

Look, it is. Good to have people. Yeah, no, it is. And it was at one moment in Look, it is. Good people. Yeah, no, it is. And it was at one moment in time the richest place on earth. Yeah. The gold rush was going up the road. Oh, yeah. Which is why it's got that sort of European, you know,

high Victorian era feel. Yeah. Because that's when it was making like mega cash. Oh, right. But Melbourne is sort of is distinct from other Australian cities in that it has a sense of Europeanness, but that's in the city and whatnot out in the round and the out of suburb. Yeah It's um, you know people go yeah, what you And because there's no gun. Yeah, I just don't want it because I don't want people lifting it and get you know

Because there's no guns in Australia. Yeah, so, you know, you walking't want people lifting it and get you know because there's no guns in Australia Yeah, so you know you walking down the street and it's just you know Yeah, and you're looking at each other and you know you're trying you know It's very much about putting on a front sure and and Australians are pretty on each other, you know, so We give each other a lot of shit a lot of all the time Yeah, and so you you can you occupy this kind of range of expression. Sure. You drift out of there, you're in trouble.

But that gives you that. Is that how you learn to act? Yeah. Oh, of course. I moved around a lot. You have to fit in with wherever you're going. In Australia. No, I lived in Germany.

I lived in England. Why? I lived in Australia because my dad is a genius. So, you know, like, so he would go here, we'd go there. And then into the States, I lived in the States. Really? What kind of genius? He's kind of a medical science genius. Dude's got a Nobel, you know, along with seven million others.

Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nobel Prize, your old man. Yeah, that's how that's how I roll. But anyway, was he a doctor? Yeah, yeah. But he was completely consumed with that. So we were these kind of wild kids that just sort of, you know. Yeah, I grew up with a doctor, not a Nobel Prize winner, but self-centered. I'm flossing.

Yes, that's it. Self-absorbed. So, but we were essentially, me and my brother were essentially, you know, just left to our own bosses. Sure, go build yourselves. Yeah, exactly. So I was wandering around the city at eight years old and stuff like this crazy shit, which you would just never, you know.

Well, this is a weird question. It's probably too deep for- Don't worry, I'll either dodge it or embrace it. Well, no, because like I felt that growing up with fairly selfish parents that you left to kind of build your sense of self without the weird fundamental support necessarily. Absolutely.

Is that you kind of like, you know, you have to adapt. And because you don't have a full sense of yourself, you kind of glom onto people with stronger personality. Yeah, and you learn from the screen. I learned a lot from watching, I mean, my attachment to watching movies and stuff and early age. Yeah, from a very early age was to get a sense of,

oh, this is how you behave in the world. So John Wayne, Clint Eastwood. Oh, those are the ones. Yeah, well, you know, Jeff Bridges. Yeah, well, because you're talking about Thunderbolt and Lightfoot. I just watched it. The Great Forgotten, you know, the Great Forgotten. Thunderbolt and Lightfoot, after he gets the brain injury.

Oh, man, it's so heartbreaking. It really is. It's just beautiful. And that great scene where he's ordering the eggs, you know, slightly loose and, you know, coming onto the waitress. Yeah. And fantastic. What's his name? The big guy, the one who's in Cool Hand Luke.

George Kennedy. Thank you. What a gift to humanity. What a gift. No kidding. What a gift. Yeah. You know? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. He was like, because he was a sweet bear. Yeah. Yeah. Like he could go heavy. Yeah. Or he could like kick it down. But God of God, you could feel it in him. Totally. And particularly in Cool Hand Luke. So Cool Hand Luke as well.

Yeah. You know, any of those things that showed a, you know, a male, you know, interacting with this hostile situation. It's a journey for, you know, cause I was trying to, you know, I'm working on a new show. And I started to think about, you know, the guys I latched on to as father figures in my life. Yeah.

You know who you are. Well, I always chose, you know, angry drug addicts. Okay. But in real life. Oh, you're talking about as an actual human. Yeah, yeah. Well, they're the ones that you most likely to have access to because they're out in the world.

And so, you know, you bump into those guys in suburbia and stuff. And they're like, you know, big personalities and personalities. And they, you know, you're allowed in the circle. That's right. Until you're spit out. And then that's the rough lesson. Well, fortunately for me, we would just get moved on before I could get kicked out again. But so like adapting to all these different environments kind of gave you, like, cause I don't know,

like how'd you start acting? Well, I took it in school cause it was going to be an easy subject. Like what we would call high school or what? Yeah, exactly what you would call middle school. Oh, middle school. Okay, I guess you would call it middle school. Like were you 13, 14?

Yeah, I'm 14. Yeah. Cause I start working at 14. So I do a school play thing. It goes extraordinarily well. Man of group of buddies did the play. Then we heard about a local theatre that was literally looking for spear carriers for Royal Hunt of the Sun. And we just went along and did that. Then my best friend from the previous school, before I went to America, says, hey, I read an ad in the paper, they're looking for kids. I tell my group of buddies,

let's all write in. They go, yeah, awesome. And this is when you were in Melbourne? Yeah, and then I finally get a reply and I say, hey, I got my reply. And you know, did you guys get yours? And they all looked at me and it was that sort of Taylor Swift moment when you arrive at the mall and they're all there and none of them gone.

And then I just went, well, okay. Fuck it, I'll just go by myself. And I went out, you know, I'll just go by myself. Yeah. And I went out, you know, I found this place way over the other side of the city. Yeah. I've never been. And, you know, I got something from that.

You know, it was an interview first. Yeah. And then an audition and then I got something from that. Got something again, got something again. What was this? So this was the year of my voice broke? No, no, this is well before that. Year of my voice broke is like, you know, I'd been at work for about three years, three years

by that stage. Was it a TV thing or was it fully TV? OK, like I did about five TV shows as a kid as, you know, yeah, 14 to 17, 18. And then the year my voice broke was was also going to be a telly movie. Yeah, they started shooting it. And they went, oh, I think we should change the stock and try and make it a feature. And how did that do? Would that put you on the map?

Oh yeah. Yeah? Yeah. And then you started acting, but that was the only real... No, I'd been acting for five years. But the only real training you had was in high school, middle school. No, no, on the job. On the job.

I did a six months job. It was called the Henderson Kids. You know Kylie Minogue's? No. Kylie Minogue is probably the most. You know if you hear her. She's the greatest pop icon that's ever come out of Australia, right?

Yeah. And she was on that series. And there were a bunch of us. And we all did this series. Six months. And we were of us. And we all did this series. Six months and we were around 15. So we all, you know. So this is like the Australian version of like the Mouseketeer or the Disney guy.

Like Wayne Gosling. No, it's an attempt to be a sort of, you know, a sophisticated children's mini series. But the point is it went on for six months. We were shooting on location and stuff. And once I did that, because that was a family, that's essentially what it was.

It was about having all these people around you. They were having fun, they were drinking, they were partying, et cetera. And I just wanted to do anything I could to be able to stay in that, I didn't want to lose that. You weren't in terms of the feeling of being unsent? Being around everyone and it was just like, because I, it was, otherwise it was teenage wasteland for me. It was just like there was no people around.

Yeah, it was good for Melbourne. Well, yeah, and it was just, it was lonely and boring and you know what I mean? It's like, when you were a teenager. And it's rough. Well, it's just, it's vacant. It's a lot of, you know, like there's a lot of time to sort of do whatever you're gonna do. But going and doing that was awesome. And I just, I wanted to learn so I could stay.

Because I was terrified of not getting another job. So how does the education unfold? So after that. I ask people. I ask people. I ask people. You do a bunch... You're like you did a ton of movies. Yeah, but I would ask people.

Like every year, twice a year sometimes. Yeah, yeah, sure. But I would ask people. I would just try and learn what's good, what do you like, and I would watch the movies. That's how I came upon, you know, the classical sort of stuff, taxi driver and whatnot. I got the tip about taxi driver from a guy on the Henderson Kids. Sure. Started watching that 15 to 20 or so.

I watched that thing probably 70 times for that performance. Just the whole thing. The whole thing. I just became mesmerized by that film. But did you find yourself looking up the method and all that stuff? Yeah, sure. The method was completely... That was the absolute orthodoxy at that time. You know, I mean, it was all about it.

So you go back, you'd watch your brand, you'd watch your Montgomery Cliffs, et cetera, et cetera. You know, your Shelley Winters, Robert DeVall, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And naturalism. Yeah, and you would, you know, you'd read respect for acting, that kind of business, you know, and you just, I tried to learn.

Yeah. I tried to learn. So you did do the studying. I did, I did whatever of business, you know, and you just, I tried to learn. Yeah, I tried to learn. So you did do the studying. I did, I did whatever I could. Right. And, and in fact, there was a woman on one of the series earlier than that that put me on to respect for acting and stuff like that. Udha Hagan. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a good book. I should read that book. Yeah, it's a great book. Yeah, it's a great book. And would you learn? Well, I learned the most important thing I learned, the magic what if. And to take it seriously, to treat it as something that was a...

What if? Yeah, well, that's the... That's the... For me, that's the... And I do have a limited knowledge of these things. No, but that's all right. But what if... If you propose...

You know it's not a real thing you're doing, right? right? But the key to unlocking it is, okay, we all know this is here, someone said, but what if that was real? Yeah, how would a person respond? La, la, la. And that's the basis of, you know, that's the starting lesson from Stanislawski, from his books. So you locked into that. So you lock into that and then you think about, well, what are the limits of that? And what does that draw? In terms of this world that you're in now. Yeah, or in terms of how you actually do your work.

And in terms of what that creates. So I think the thing about the method, et cetera, et cetera, from my point of view, just in my little take, it can take you an enormous way, but there's a bunch of things it doesn't point towards. And they're really important things like clowning. Where does clowning take place in there? It doesn't. And what's that mean? That clowning is not a type of performance?

Did you do some clowning? No, but when you look at Jim Carrey at his high point, when you were talking about Man on the Moon and the Grinch and stuff like that, I considered him to be the absolute pinnacle of who you guys had at that time or anyone because he was the only person I could see that could do that and do that and do that. Okay? And you take a completely different tack. You think about Donald O'Connor in Singing in the Rain. You know, make him laugh, make music. Who does that? Who can do that skill set? It's gone. But that is also fantastic.

It's the best. So you get from the point of the intensity of the method and the sort of, almost a religious kind of vibe around it. And then you go, okay, great. But there's all this other stuff. And that's all I meant. So you're thoughtful about it in the sense that like, because I remember I was in a clowning class or we did a clowning experiment where all you get is a nose.

And then you have to, and you can't talk. I'd be terrified, man. Would you? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. But that would be great. I mean, that's the point. But this is like a scary job.

It's a scary job, right? You know, even though I do comedy though There's something the vulnerability of clowning in that if you if you have any insecurity about it It's going to read as panic and it's gonna undermine your funny. Ah See what you've learned shit every day if you're alive to it, right? Yeah, if you want to learn if you if you know that you know about this much. Yeah, I think I just started out just now and it's going to be helpful to me. Well, it's going to be helpful to me too. Because, you know, in fact, when you go into the sort of the red zone, if you like, you know, the speakers are overblowing. Yeah. It's always got to do with the anxiety just coming out too loud. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and then being able to see it. Yeah, and he takes them out

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so the the you want to know the greatest My favorite moment of of sort of saving the world is Sarah Silverman at the Oscars, right? I don't know if you remember that. I'm trying to think okay. Yeah, he's bombing Yeah, going on. She doesn't seem to have anything was she hosting no She just did a spot on something and she's bombing. Yes's going on. She doesn't seem to have anything. Was she hosting? No, she just did a spot or something and she's bombing It's absolutely dying. Yeah, and it's just it's it's excruciating And then she says or maybe I'm just someone who can get up in front of 1.5 billion people and give it a go because I don't give A f and it's just like

It's like this instant It's like snatching massive victory from the jaws of defeat and that to me is the heroic sort of thing about Performing is that you've got you there's a fluidity to it Right if you don't get too locked in and think you know what's what when you don't know what's what you just strut Yeah, what the fuck yeah to quote fat boy slim Yeah, you know then you then you've got a chance Yeah, you're going in there and you got your battle plan and you know, my character would do this,

my character would do that. Your character wouldn't say that. Oh, that's strange. It's written on the page. You could say anything you like, motherfucker. But one thing you can be sure of is your character says it. You see? It's on the page.

Right there. And that's the problem with the, that's the problem where people take in method whatnot Yeah, they they take it to an extension where they have the authority over the piece Yes, and that's to me where you know where things start to get a bit wobbly and you don't want to be doing that You want to honor the script you want to be on on the audience? Yeah, you want to honor the audience and if it starts to become about all about your authority over the whole thing Well, okay, that's great if you're if you're kicking goals each and every fucking time.

But if you're not, step off. Yeah, step off. Now, when you like, like I had Joel Edgerton in here, Joliet. Yeah, I've done more jobs with Joliet than anyone else. Joliet. I, Joliet, I, I, I, Joel, I had, I only know from an ice tea shout out. Yeah. Um, and, um, he, he was, uh, he played my brother in a thing, which is essentially, we were doing a shootout thing with the cops. He gets killed. That was his first time on, which, which movie was that? This was called police rescue. This is an Australian series, probably in the nineties somewhere.

Yeah. And I've done like six things with Joel. I mean, yeah, he's another guy. That's all extraordinary, you know? And Joel and his brother, they're extraordinary. Extraordinary. But when you're working in scenes with somebody, can you feel an escalation where you know, when you hit in a zone, and the worst thing is,

when you're giving it on the other side, because the real mark of how good someone is in my book, in the real game, is how good they are when it's not on them. When it's on you, how good they are. So when you watch and you go, oh my god, there they are, and you can just feel it, it's just like, oh fuck, it's like magic. Because the thing is, when you do this job, the best bit about it is you see all these

people from TV that you can't. Because like the thing is, when you do this job, the best bit about it is you see all these people from TV that you're like, I'm serious, like it's awesome. You go around and you go, oh my fucking god, there's Larry Dyer. You know, shit like that. It's still the best thing about it. I still nerd out about it all the time.

I know, it's hard. It's kind of funny. Yeah. Because like, I mean, you've obviously done a million movies but I did one scene with Robert De Niro. Oh my god. There was one of those, it was very funny dude. It was in it was in that last Joker movie Okay, did you see it? Yeah? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was the guy. I was his producer the TV producer. Oh fuck you are yeah Yeah, we're not gonna oh my god, of course

You did a great job in that little scene No, but I did that one little scene in the thing and then the reaction shot after the after I don't want to do any spoiler alert, but there's a there's a very distinctive moment. And then they get then they get you at that. No, you did you fucking murdered it. You murdered my god. I'm fanning out because they seen when you're going in there, you're going no, no, and you're right, of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah know what the fuck is, you know what, you know. Waukeen made a very interesting decision. And it was a real learning moment for me. Oh, he's the, by the way, top of the heap.

Have you worked with him? No, but him, him, there's him, and there's a couple of others that are just in it, in a, you know, he's class of his own. We did one take in the dressing room, and then Wauke walking was talking to us And then the second take and I don't know if it was his decision or Todd's He didn't even acknowledge me at all right. It's all about it's all about about yeah

And it was just like this and I'm talking and not even it's he doesn't even know I exist And then that's when it goes boom It's kind of amazing and all he knows I I've gotten this this thing I do I do a lot of and I've noticed because I don't act that much But I do it every time I when we're walking out after the Robert walks out You know, I I go the door and then I do one those I just look back at it But I like I'm so aware of it to look back I know what you mean look they are the the things you get taught to do again and again. My greatest breakthrough moment with that stuff. There's one shot in a film called Animal Kingdom.

That's a great movie. That was a big movie. That was Joel too, right? That's Joel too. Yeah, absolutely. The crime movie. Yeah. So there's one shot where David has me like come out, I'm chasing the lead character. I'm going to get him to try and kill him. And there's one shot he has me run out of a doorway and go this way. Now normally you run out of a doorway and you do something in the shot.

I just went, okay, you want me to fuck him run out of a doorway? Okay, here we go. And I just ran straight out the thing, with no sort of like, no flourish. Yeah, and I went, that's it. You know, and he went, yeah, that. Yeah, and I went, that's it, you know, and he went, yeah, that's it.

And I went, oh, fuck yeah. And it was actually a real breakthrough moment. Cause it was like, listen, fuck all that, fuck all the shot by shot flourish and having to, you know, do everything in every shot. Just do that, just run out there and connect that and that. You don't fucking do anything except run out the door. Because what else are you going to do?

Go, looky, looky, oh my God, you know. Yeah, so everyone goes, oh, that was great. What you did in that shot. Yeah. You know, every fucking time you do it, you don't need to do it. Yeah, but it's a hard decision to make because like I don't quite get that part. Like, but the fortunate thing, if you start really young, you're not as daunted by the whole machinery.

Yeah, I don't, I don't mind it. I don't mind the machinery. but like a lot of times, I don't even know which cameras mine. And I imagine as an actor who's done a lot of work, you always know what cameras are. Not necessarily, but it's also, it's about, well, it's horses for courses. There are times at which if they're doing

multi-camera setups, which they tend to do now, you don't worry about stuff, but when you really want to know how to use the camera is when it's coming in. And that's where the real sort of stuff is. That's where I think the ability to connect closely with the audience and not. That's where that takes place. And I've got some tricks and stuff. I've got stuff that I do around that because I think it's an audience. If you've worried about the audience only, then a lot of other things aren't important. So, leading up to Animal Kingdom, was there periods in the life when there was no work and it was shit. Yeah. Oh Yeah, I mean I was

In my 30s. I was like, oh, well, it's it's it's done I mean there was a period where it was like because he started so young right? Yeah And did you feel like you tapped out like you were a teenage actor? Yeah, exactly exactly And and I had I sort of just felt like I'm gonna keep forever and ever. And then you get to that period in your working life where the classic actor joke, how many actors does it take to change the light bulb? How many? 100.

And there are two versions, one to change the light bulb. And the other nine say that should have been me up there, or I could have done that better, right? So, and I had my, oh, that was supposed to be me up there kind of thing. And then I sat around, well, you know, a lot of other people were doing really well. And then I got this drone.

Yeah, yeah, mate. You know, they're shard and fine. Yeah, yeah, sure, sure. So I had a good decade or two of that. So you felt that, that people were, oh, no, come on,. You know, so I had a good decade or two of that. So you felt that? That people were, yeah. Oh no, come on. It's not like you feel it.

They don't shy about letting you know. The Australian side. Oh no, no, no. We're very direct about that stuff. You know, Australia is sort of a true socialist communication country. Anyone can talk to anyone at any time and if you don't respond, that's a very serious insult. Really?

Oh yeah, very much. I was there once and I got sent home because I bombed so badly. And early on in my career, I went back and did well at another time. Oh so you were doing the festival, you were doing the comedy festival. I did Melbourne twice, but years before that,

I took a job headlining with this guy, Dave McKenna, who ran the, it took a job headlining with this guy, Dave McKenna, who ran the, it was a big room. And there were two rooms in the place. Okay, it's not the Esplanade, it's not the... No, this was back in the, it would have been 92 or something. Okay, so I'm gonna figure it's like, yeah, it's like the joining Fitzroy there.

It's probably, yeah. Yeah, it's on Smith Street or something. And I took a job as a headliner and I knew that I didn't have the time to do it, but I figured, you know, why not take it the guy wanted me? So I'd work it out and I got there and I just collapsed into myself. And you know, who was hosting was so funny

because it was such a traumatic thing that it wasn't a hostile firing, but I just, I did a week of previews and then the first night of the show, I bombed bad. No getting out. And then the owner of the place, the guy, Dave, he's like, you know, I don't think this is working out. It was so funny, because like, here's what, I did it.

I did the Steve Visard show, but there was a guest host. And Russell Crowe was the guest for Rompers Doppers. So that's when it was. So he wasn't anybody but this hot actor. And he's talking about preparing for his Nazi role. And he's talking about the books he read. And I made a little joke. I said, yep, that sounds like my bookshelf at home.

And it just, because no one knew who I was, it just got nothing. In the studio, just sort of like, whoa. And that was sort of the beginning of the unfolding, the beginning of the spiraling. And then, yeah, so I get sent home and I was kind of relieved. And I remember the show so well. And many years later, I knew who the guy who hosted

was Greg Fleet. And I used to live with Greg Fleet. No shit. That's the comic. I get Greg Fleet and I I used to live with Greg Fleet. No shit. That's the comic. I get Greg Fleet and I'm best friends. Like joined at the hip. Yeah.

And I learned Greg Fleet and I worked to get, you know, yes. Go ahead. So, and I ran into a million years later at the Glasgow, no, at Edinburgh. And he was there and I'm like, oh my God, you're the guy. Do you remember that? And he's like, I'm like, oh my God, you're the guy. Do you remember that? And he's like, of course I remember. He gets it home. Fleedy, the mighty Fleedy.

The mighty Fleedy. He's on his ninth life that guy. I know, Fleedy's awesome. Fleedy's a complete institution of comedy. And he was an actor. That's where we met. I did my first feature film which is an uber unknown film called The Still Point where he and I played these kind of friends of this guy

who was going out with this deaf girl who in real life was my girlfriend and she had also worked on The Henderson Kids. She was the lead girl in that. And that's where we met. And we, you know, we did this scene where they, I did this scene where they, Greg Fleet and this other guy called Steve Bastani, who's also, you know, a complete institution there. We're having a fight, you know? And all I did, I was Peter, the surfer. And I just did this, just like a bad tennis,

I did a tennis match, really. Just going one side to the other. Just sucked, yeah, yeah. Just going one side to the other. Sure, sure, yeah. Just sucked, sucked, sucked. But Fleety has the most enormous amount of charisma. He's written a bunch of books and stuff, and we would sit around, and that's where we would do these improvising

to Bob Dylan and whatnot. Sure, oh really? Yeah, yeah, no, he's a huge part of my life. I mean, Fleety's massive. Fleety's massive. Did you do comedy? I did do, I's a huge part of my life. I mean, Fleet is massive. Fleet is massive. Did you do comedy? I did do, I did a thing called Nordic Dad where you come out and you bang someone on the head.

Yeah. It was a bit in a sketch game. Yeah, it was just sort of that, you know, like, but all those guys at that time. And then, you know, I got to play, oh, shit, there was the Matt and Matt, the two Matt's. Yeah. There was, I'm blank and mats, the two mats. Yeah. There was

I'm blanking. So you were the there was there was lovely who did Jackie Jackie Glacier. Oh, my God. Yeah. It was it was you were tapped into the Melbourne comedy. I was peripheral. I was peripheral. But you're living with fleeting. So you go to the show. Yeah. Yeah.

The light. Yeah. All that. Yeah. And and that's the thing. You cut comics. Yeah. You guys. Yeah. You're the most passive aggressive my yeah. And that's the thing, comics, you guys, you're the most passive aggressive mofios on earth, because you sit around comics, you guys never stop. It's just joke after joke after joke after joke. You know, it's like, I'm an arm of a arm.

A lot of ball busting. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so, and I was sort of peripheral, so I sort of ended up getting like, blah, blah, blah, okay, you guys have moved on. You got lucky. I moved on.

I know I did, that's moved on. You got lucky. I know I did, that's the thing. You got to know when to hold them, know when to fold them, know when to walk away, know when to run. Right, but you always stayed in the acting zone. You never thought like I'm gonna be a comic. No, I just have, it's too, you know what I mean? Like, no, I mean, but I had, you know,

things were going, I was, you know, people liked me as an actor, you know what I mean? To whatever degree. You were coming up. And I would, you know, I would work and whatnot. Sure, but I'd probably come up and dipped already. But you said you like, when you went down,

well, that's the thing I noticed about Australia too, is that there is an attitude of sort of like, yeah, we're down here. You know, like there is a ceiling. Oh yeah, that's it. No, you do it, you do, you know, you're working and you're at a high level. You're a star there is a ceiling. Oh yeah, that's it. No, you do it, you do it, you know, you're working and you're at a high level, you're a star there, right? Right.

And then that's, you know. Then they're waiting for you to fall. Well, they love, I mean, it's a universal game, isn't it? Come on, let's be real. It's like, it's, you know, from, it's, it's over. It's over on. It's over on. Is it Rome or is it just a bunch of insecure fucks

who just, you know, it know, I wish it was as interesting as a gladiator thing or yeah, but really it's just sort of like it's envy, resentment and... Maybe it's more, yeah, maybe it's more, yeah, Italian nation states or something, but it's all just these little fiefdoms of whatever. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And they sort of, oh yeah, that one over there. Little Cleats, Little Cleats.

Same as it was in Paris fashion. Well, they all had their tiny little Cleats that stayed in them. We call it, it's like high school. Yeah, yeah. That's it, you never move, you know, like does it ever move on? Like, you know.

It doesn't, I just had, I was dealing with something this morning where it's something I said was misunderstood by somebody and it was public and then I had to like call that guy and be like, that's not what happened dude. What are we doing? Yeah, yeah, no, I know. There's a lot of advancing statements and embellishing what they mean and what they

don't mean, etc. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And now with social media, it's like no one is safe. Well, yeah. I mean, I'm not involved. Yeah, good. Good for you. No, it's just like, I, you know, I mean, it's not, I'm not, yeah, I'm not involved. Yeah, good, good for you. No, it's just like, I, you know, no.

So, who was your general, like you did, you were in a movie with Toni Collette, that was her first movie, right? That's a film called Spotswood, here it's called The Efficiency Expert. That's Anthony Hopkins, that's Russ Krod. Yeah, yeah. That's Dan Wiley.

Do you know Russell Well? Not well, no, no. I want y'all to know everybody. Well, we do all know each other, you know Russell? Well, not well. No, no, I know I want y'all to know everybody Well, we do all know each other, you know, we do all know each other, but you know, Crowe's a Kiwi It's it's like a different vibe. You know what I mean? Is it like what's the primary difference? Well, you wouldn't you wouldn't survive that that much You know that that much primacy vibe yeah in Australia, yeah, but but he you. But he's got a great lesson. He told a great lesson. I can't, like sometimes when I watch,

the thing about acting is that the guys who are great at it, like you and Russell and Tony, and there is a magic to it. Like I can't, like when you watch Gladiator, you know, and you realize that this is just this guy, but somehow or another, through some genetic miracle or charismatic miracle, he can hold that space. And when you're on a set,

cause that's the weird thing is when you're on a set, you're just a guy. And to know that you're holding that space or to, and then just to talk naturally, how the fuck do you do that? And you all do it, that you're holding that space or to to end end just to talk naturally. How the fuck do you do that? And you all do it that you're holding this space. And, and it's, I mean, some of it's a skill, but a lot of it is just personal magic. Well, in Australia, it's a very egalitarian society, right?

So if you go out onto a set, the crew owns the set, right? The actors don't own the set. Yeah. Here you go out onto a set, it's very clear. The actors kind of, you know, the actors have a... Sure. You're the ones making the money. So in Australia, you have to be able to fit in

with the bunch and get the vibe and do whatever it is. You got to take your own blip, blip, blip. And then take your space. You have to clear the space away. And there are different, you know, there are different methods for that. Tom and Colette is extraordinary. And Russell's got his way.

And I've got my way. And you just find a way to make it safe enough for yourself. And Joel and Heath, beautiful Heath. I mean, my goodness, boy. That, I mean, what an extraordinary, what a horrible, horrible loss. Were you guys friends? Again, boy. That, I mean, what an extraordinary, what a horrible, horrible loss. Were you guys friends? Again, yeah.

He was, no, he's younger than me, you know, and whatnot, but, you know, I knew him and he, you know, I stayed at his place for a bunch of time and whatnot, and yeah, it's just horrible, you know? Yeah, terrible. What an amazing talent. Yeah. Could have done so much more. Yeah, that. What amazing talent. Yeah, could have done so much more Yeah, that's but there is something about the Australian actors like it. Keep Lancer. Yep, and Nicole I talked to yeah

Well, I think we get we get exposed to a lot of English stuff We get exposed to a lot of America Eric Banner is yeah Eric Eric absolutely and he comes through comedy He does yeah, not for that long, but he did right right? Yeah. I mean, Chopper, you know, Chopper is awesome. Crazy movie. Chopper is, you know, like he's incredible in it. Yeah. Just incredible in it. Um, so yeah.

But you think it has something to do because I've always, I've, it's sort of one of those mysteries that I've tried to unskill. You want to know what it is? Yeah. The social gravity over there is heavier. Yeah. When you get over here, the social gravity is much lighter. And that's why we can sort of,

we do well over here comparatively, because it's like, oh my God, I don't have to answer for everything at every moment to every one. Oh, fuck. Because America has a true freedom. I mean, you really are the freest country that I've ever been in.

And it has very different implications. And it has really profound implications for the scope for achievement and success and all that, whatever all that shit that they were hoping to get. They got it more right, I think, than most other places where there's a more of a limit, you know, an exterior limit kind of vibe. Now, obviously, you guys have your own kind of stuff around that, but that sense of we are free is really profoundly different. For instance, you guys will sit down and talk about your therapy, health problems.

We wouldn't have a fucking do. You just quietly die. No, we would talk about it in intimate situations, but to talk about it and sitting in a cafe loud and saying, you know, I went to see my therapist the other day, he says, you think I have a problem with auto eroticism? What's that? And to us, it's like, oh my god, shame attack, shame attack. We wouldn't, you know, it's like, so it just has implications. Sure. And you can learn a lot, you know, just by doing that stuff. Yeah. And yeah,. And we're pre-trained and whatnot. Oh, the other thing is,

where a lot of us come from working class situations. Now, there's not a lot of easy sort of opportunities to do drama and what, if you're just a person somewhere, you know what I mean? Sure. Now, yeah, but also like there is an indulgence here that like, you know, that same character you just did at the coffee shop is, you know,

five minutes away from being the most annoying person on the planet. Amen. Amen. But therein lies the magic, you know? Yeah, I guess so. Yeah. The culture of narcissism has its benefits.

Well, yeah, yeah, no. I mean, you know, self-in, you know, like, well, unenlightened self-interest so when like when when When you were having these times where you weren't getting work that you have a Like it's the happiest times of my life in some way. They really were they were I had a girlfriend I had a dog we used to walk around it was actually a really but you didn't have a plan B. Did you know plan B? Yeah, no, you're kind of like was there a moment where you're like well fuck no

B did you know plan B? Yeah, no, it was a moment for you like well fuck. No, there was I had a I had a Time limit on it. I'm like, oh well, I guess I'll just hang out for another two years see what happens Yeah, and then the two years came and went I still I didn't have a plan. I thought I will give it another Myself an extension. Do you feel more you feel more? You have job security now, or is it still? No No, but I know but I you know, I have a sense that in some way or somehow, you know, I can work, you know. Was the Batman break a big break? They've all been huge breaks.

Batman was a huge break, but Joel Schumacher, when Joel Schumacher hired me, because Joel, traditionally, if Joel Schumacher hired you, you were going to go on to have a career. Which film was that? That was Trespass, which is, you know, you can, you don't need to see it necessarily, but that was a really big one for me. Also Terry Malick used me in a film that was, so there were little clues, but by the time I got to, what is it, Bloodline and then Place Beyond the Pines and then killing themselves. You were great in Place Beyond the Pines.

Once I got a sense that there was a one-two punch sort of thing going on things started to feel good but I look back yeah and realize how pretty how tenuous everything is sure you know yeah unbelievable to make it I gotta watch police behind the pines again yeah it's um you know Derek Sanfrance I know I really want to do something with him again I really kind of a special movie and I was thinking about it the other day, you know, to watch it again. He did the most genius thing that I've ever seen a director do, which is…

And he lived in a trailer in that movie. I lived in a trailer in that movie. But Ryan and I were both playing tough guys. That was the original thing. So we turned up on set, we did the first day of work and I were both playing tough guys. That was the original thing. So we turned up on set, we did the first day of work, and we were doing this driving scene. And it sucked. Because you had the two guys, the two toughest men in the world,

right next to each other. And we're saying stuff like, yeah, what are you doing mate? I'm going to shut up, I'll stab you. I'm like, I'll fucking kill you. And we just come back and it sucked. And Derek then said, listen, this is, we got, I mean, I don't really love what I've written with this stuff anyway.

And why don't we just flip it around? Why don't we just go, this guy comes from here, he sees this guy, I mean, look at him. He's beautiful, look at him. He's got these face tats and this and that. I mean, why don't you go, why don't you just be a dude that's around there done crime, does crime,

but he sees this guy out riding a bike and he thinks, oh, I like that guy. Maybe you even wanna really like that guy. He said, what do you think about that? And I went, fucking awesome. And so we went back on and the whole thing flipped and for a day or two it was still, I'm gonna kill you, I'm gonna kill you.

And then all of a sudden, I think one day he said, I'll stab you and I said, no, you won't. And he just started laughing. And then we broke open. And we just were like two kids playing. And that whole magical vibe that goes on in there is because we were having the best time. It really is one of the best experiences.

And it was low budget, it was kind of scrappy, but it was heaven. It was real, real heaven that time. And it really low budget, it was kind of scrappy, but it was heaven. It was real, real heaven that time. And it really comes through. Because Ryan was able to kind of show up in point, yeah. Yeah, we felt safe with each other. We weren't sort of, you know, we weren't trying to compete against each other or out to each other.

And we just found a way to sort of goof around. And I love Ryan. And then Ryan was directing a film. he asked me to come and do that. I went and did that and that was awesome. And I didn't know much of Ryan's stuff. I knew I knew his rep and whatnot, but I hadn't seen anything of Ryan's. He's always pretty surprising. Oh, he's awesome. He can be very funny. He's got enormous range of, you know, that's the he's he's probably the most valuable romantic lead you know in you know like incredibly valuable in that role yeah but you know he's a guy that wants to do clearly wants to you know

be able to show more and do more he can clown it up pretty good that absolutely you know that was a movie that I think I saw that baby teeth baby teeth that's that's crazy movie that's that's my favorite film of mine that I've ever done, that I've seen. It's kind of an amazing movie. Yeah, that's my favorite movie that I've seen. Why? What was it about it?

Because it's got all the Australian virtues. It's got a big heart, it laughs at itself, it cares about its people, It's got an ease about it It's got a very muscular femininity to it. Yeah, and I just I love it It's and you know, it's got it's got the greatest one of the greatest power lip power lifting actors anywhere on earth S. E. Davis. Yeah Toby the Toby who's playing Moses. His character is a drug addict. My character is supplying him because my daughter is in love with him and is only really alive

through that. So it deals with what are pretty black and white circumstances with great relativity, which is also an Australian virtue. And it can sometimes be a real problem. But you know, in essence, Australia seeks to understand rather than condemn. It has a big heart. Well, that's good. That's not really happening here.

No, that's not necessarily the same here. But what you do have here is real clarity, which you know, and so it's a trade-off. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, there's a good, I don't know if there's a good meeting place, but that's my conception of it anyway. Yeah, well, we'll see how it all falls out in the next six months or so. Yeah, well, that's yeah. But look, you know, we've been worried, you know, we as the species has been worried about the end for,

you know, more than more than 2000 years. Sure. Well Well more. Yeah. Well, I think that's good. That's optimistic. Yeah. I mean, why is it, why are we so special? But it's happening right now. Every generation, I think, experience. Sure. I think I'm like, oddly, I feel like even if it's an

atmospheric river here, I'd much rather water than fire. I mean. And, and, and, but I think politically I panic more than I do about the end of the world and the environment. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, especially after watching, you know, the new look, because, you know, one thing it really explores is how quickly a population can turn against itself. Absolutely.

And it's terrifying. And how do you live in that? How do you, and who are you in that? That's right. And how can you be in that? How do you, and who are you in that? That's right. And how can you be in that? And I do love the universe, the universality of that. That's what I think is it's one of its great strengths. But first and foremost, it entertains and it holds. And that's the alpha.

And it's sharp beautifully. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, it's a quality product. And it was great talking to you, sir. Lovely to talk to you. Did it feel good about it? Yeah, I feel like it's another milestone.

You know, I think things are going well when you turn up here. You know what I mean? Yeah, that's nice. Well, it is what it is. I'm glad to be that guy. It's important. Thanks, man.

Yeah, thank you. That was fun. I like those Australian fellas. The first five episodes of the new look are streaming now on Apple Plus. New episodes premiere on Wednesdays. Hang out for a minute. Calgary is a city built by innovators. Innovation is in the city's DNA. And it's with this pedigree that bright minds and future thinking problem solvers are tackling some of the world's greatest challenges from right here in Calgary. From cleaner energy, safe and secure food, efficient movement of goods and people, and better health solutions, Calgary's visionaries are turning

heads around the globe across all sectors each and every day. Calgary's on the right path forward. Take a closer look how at CalgaryEconomicDevelopment.com. Folks, we've got a special episode for you on Wednesday this week, a show with this year's Oscar nominees who have been on WTF in the past. That's not just the recent talks we've had with people like Mark Ruffalo and Lily Gladstone, but ones with nominees like Jeffrey Wright and Jody Foster too. And I think as a fairly well-adjusted person, even though I'm crazy about certain things like my computer, I've survived intact by coming up with a scuba mask, you know, for lack of a better word. You know, I have a reed that allows me to breathe. Right. And

I have a read that allows me to breathe. Right. And I, those survival, those survival tools are important in order to, in order for somebody to become a whole person. Right. Yeah. And it's hard. It can take a long time to become a whole person. Yeah.

I mean, I'm not even sure I'm there yet. Yeah. Me neither. I feel that all the time. Like, you know, am I, am I me? Well, the worst is as you get older, I just start feeling like I start seeing other people that are blowhards or people that are like super selfish and completely self absorbed and, you know, and I'm just like, I was like, that's you. I'm still like that. That's awful. Oh no.

You know, you're able to really be humble and be humbled by your consciousness. Right. Well, you know what I stopped doing? It's like, you know, I started embracing the phrase, I don't know. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know.

Like, you know, like if I don't know something, I'm going to say it. You know, as opposed to pretend I know it or half ask the answer, I'm just like, I don't fucking know. I, you know. We'll have that episode for you on Wednesday and our regular Thursday episode has comedian Rory Scoville.

He's back for another talk, Funny Special. We'll also have some more Oscar talk in the full Merrim Bonus episodes this week. Go to the link in the episode description to sign up or go to wtfpod.com and click on wtf plus. And a reminder before we go, this podcast is hosted by Acast. You'll notice on the C note pull off on the G chord. There's not an extra beat there.

I hit it sometimes. on the C note pull off on the G chord. There's not an extra beat there. I hit it sometimes. So Music Music So The Music Music So Boomer lives, Monkey and the Fonda cat angels everywhere.