WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1525 - David Krumholtz

Episode Date: March 28, 2024

David Krumholtz lives and breathes Hollywood because, according to him, he has no other choice. The prolific character actor got what he considers a once in a lifetime break at age 13, so he needed to honor whatever fates gave him that opportunity by devoting himself entirely to acting. David talks with Marc about what he’s learned from co-stars like Judd Hirsch and Alan Arkin as well as directors like Christopher Nolan and the Coen Brothers, and he also reflects on his leading man status in the new film Lousy Carter. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Register today at sunrisechallenge.ca. That's sunrisechallenge.ca. You're invited to an immersive listening party led by Rishikesh Herway, the visionary behind the groundbreaking Song Exploder podcast and Netflix series. This unmissable evening features Herway and Toronto Symphony Orchestra music director,

Gustavo Gimeno in conversation. Together, they dissect the mesmerizing layers of Stravinsky's The Rite of Spring, the Alright, let's do this. How are you? What the fuckers? What the fuck buddies? What the fuck, Nick? What's happening? What is happening? Today on the show, I talked to David Krumholtz.

You definitely know this guy. I feel like I've known him my whole life. He's been acting since he was a kid. Lots of people grew up with him from the movies like The Santa Clause and Adam's Family Values, The Swarms of Beverly Hills. He was on the shows Numbers and The Deuce and most recently he was in Oppenheimer. He's in a new movie called Lousy Carter, which is great great showcase for him But he's one of these guys crum holds from like, you know, how am I not gonna get along with that guy? We seem like kindred spirits and it did we did we did get along we're different But we understood each other and it was good to see him

I'm kind of perky right now because once again, I realized that this show is my life and this show can dictate how my day goes, how my week goes. I just did an interview in here with somebody that many of you don't know probably, some of you do know. It was an engaged conversation for an hour, like I do here.

And that's what my life is, but that is the nourishment of my life, is to just sort of, you know, be as open as possible most times. Sometimes I'm a little defensive, sometimes I'm a little bullying, sometimes I'm a little soft. There's a lot of different variations of who I am on a soul level. And it all comes out here with these people who most of which I only have one Conversation with and it makes my heart and mind and life better this job Talking to people in a way without expectation

To get to know them to hear where they're coming from No agenda. It's a very beautiful thing, and for some reason today, I feel that more than others. I'm in Madison, Wisconsin at the Barrymore Theater on Wednesday, April 3rd, Milwaukee, Wisconsin at the Turner Hall Ballroom on Thursday, April 4th, Chicago at the Vic Theater on Friday, April 5th, Minneapolis at the Pantages Theater on Saturday, April 4th, Chicago. At the Vic Theater on Friday, April 5th, Minneapolis. At the Pantages Theater on Saturday, April 6th. Austin, Texas at the

Paramount Theater on Thursday, April 18th as part of the Moon Tower Comedy Festival. Montclair, New Jersey on Thursday, May 2nd at the Wellmont Center. Glenside, Pennsylvania in the Philadelphia area on Friday, May 3rd at the Keswick Theater. Washington, DC on Saturday, May 3rd at the Keswick Theater. Washington, D.C. on Saturday, May 4th at the Warner Theater. Munhall, Pennsylvania outside Pittsburgh on May 9th at the Carnegie Library Music Hall. Cleveland, Ohio May 10th at Playhouse Square, Detroit, Michigan. May 11th at the Royal Oak Music Theater. And just added this week, Sacramento on November 8th at the Crest Theater.

There's a presale going on right now with the password ALLIN. One word a-l-l-i-n. General tickets on sale tomorrow. Go to WTFpod.com slash tour for all my dates and links to tickets. Can you dig it? Yes I can. I did something the other day that I realized again not talking about age in any negative way, but one of my favorite shirts, one of my Ship John shirts, one of my button-ups that many of you have seen because I've worn it on many different shows in a long time.

For some reason, when I'm in a creative zone, I walk around with a notebook. Look, I have a notes thing on my phone, I could use that,, I walk around with a notebook. Look, I have a notes thing on my phone. I could use that, but I walk around with a notebook and I stick it in my breast pocket and I stick my fucking pen in there. I got a very specific type of pen. And this is not like something I haven't done before.

I stuck it in there. I went to see a show last night. And then when I got home, I realized, oh, okay. My pen was open. And now my shirt is fucking ruined, and there's nothing I can do about it. Now there's a lot of things you can go through in your mind. You know, who the fuck puts a pen in their pocket?

Who the fuck even carries a pen anymore? What the fuck is wrong with you? Why don't you get on board? Why don't you fucking wake up, dude? You have all the technology in your hand, in the monster. Yeah, you got the charged monster right in your fucking pocket. Just right with that. You can't even read your own fucking handwriting. What is this old ass tradition of yours that requires a pad and paper? And it's good questions. These are good questions, but there's something about the way I engage mentally with a pad and paper. And I got to be honest with you. I can barely read my fucking

handwriting. It's a decoding process. I've talked about this before. There's like, there's no reason for it. It's still, it's the same with post-its, pieces of paper. For some reason, this is still the way I work. Where everything is just a pile of scraps and notebooks, where I have to figure out what the fuck I was thinking and why I wrote something, why I wrote what I did. And what is it? What is that word even? So now, it's been a while since I ruined a shirt,

but I ruined one of my favorite shirts. And I'm a big boy I can take the hit. I don't give a fuck on some level I do was one of my favorite chip John shirts one of my favorite shirts in general And now I just got to live with it. It's irreplaceable Is this going to be enough to get me to forgo? the pen Get rid of the notebook

Change my process? No, I don't know if you know this about me. There was a time where I knew this would happen. It was probably after the last time I ruined a Filson shirt and then ended up with three of them. I ordered pocket protectors from Amazon. You know, those plastic things you put in,

the ink stick pens in, and I ordered them. And for a while I was, I had it in my pocket. And then I realized like, well, to really use a pocket protector, you're gonna need more than one pen. You should have a few pens in there, maybe a pencil and an instrument used for drafting or engineering.

It was too much. The demand of the pocket protector was too much and here I am. Here I am again at a crossroads with a permanently stained shirt that can only look like one thing. There's no hiding it. It's just sort of like, hey stupid, what you didn't close your pen? But you know what? I'm gonna go back to it. It's just, you know, it's just the way I am. I'm dug in. I'm dug in, people. So, all right, look, I've got a suggestion for you.

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delicious recipes to promote better living. Available to buy now wherever books are sold. This is kind of exciting because I'm able to announce. Bad Guys 2 is happening. Bad Guys 2, Mr. Snake. Mr. Snake is gonna be back. I think it's slated to release in the summer of 2025. We've already, I feel like we've already recorded most of the movie, but because it's not COVID, we could all be in the same room together,

which was pretty fun. And DreamWorks is very close to my house. It's a great job. But we did, we laid out a lot of the script. It was great to get together with everybody, the crew, and then the, you know, the actors. So in the studio was me and Craig Robinson and Anthony Ramos and Aquafina and Sam Rockwell were in New York on Zoom.

And we kind of, you know, we did the business. And it was a blast. It's fun to be able to read with the cast in real time. We did some riffing, had some, it's just, you know, I imagine that's the way it used to be done back in the day. You know, now because of technology, you can just go in and record your part with someone else reading the other parts and that'd be the end of it. But this is really, makes for a better animated experience,

I think, if the emotions are connected. And I don't want to, I don't want to spoil anything, but, and I'm not going to. I did, Natasha Lyonne and I, she's also in the movie, and we were able to hammer it out one on one, hadn't seen her in a while, and it's good fun. And I'm happy that I get to announce that not only are we doing it, but I feel like

a lot of it might be done. But you kind of go in, they tweak things, and you do other things, and ehh. But it was a fun movie, and it's coming back. And I'm, uh, I'm Mr. Snake again! Yeah! Mr. Snake! I'm back! So that's fun. Figured out some hooks. It's so funny, because I started doing something that, you know, in the script that, that, that kind of becomes, you know, this, this signature thing that I just got from the way Kit says this word, and now it's in there.

I was like, I'm going to use it like that. Anyway, it's fun to do that kind of work, and it's in there. I was like, I'm going to use it like that. Anyway, it's fun to do that kind of work and it's happening. So look, you guys, I'm excited to present to you now my conversation with the intense and thoughtful and this guy's a character to me. I'm glad we hung out because I feel like it was supposed to happen. David Krumholtz is in a new movie called Lousy Carter. It's a dark comedy. I enjoyed it. It comes out tomorrow, March 29th, in theaters and on digital on-demand platforms.

It's a unique movie. And this is me and David K Krumholz talking now. You're invited to an immersive listening party led by Rishikesh Hurway, the visionary behind the groundbreaking Song Exploder podcast and Netflix series. This unmissable evening features Hurway and Toronto Symphony Orchestra music director Gustavo Jimeno in conversation. Together, they dissect the

mesmerizing layers of Stravinsky's The Rite of Spring, followed by a complete soul-stirring rendition of the famously unnerving piece. Symphony Exploder, April 5th at Roy Thompson Hall. For tickets, visit TSO.CA.

On April 5th, you must be very careful, Margaret. It's the girl. Witness the birth. Bad things will start to happen. Evil things. Of evil. It's all for you. No, no, don't.

The first Omen. I believe the girl is to be the mother. Mother of what? Is the most terrifying. 666. It's the mark of the devil. Hey! Movie of the year.

It's not real. It's not real. What's not real? Who said that? The first Omen. Only theaters April 7th. It's the mark of the devil. Hey! Movie of the year. It's not real. It's not real. What's not real? Who said that? Ah!

The First Omen. Only in theaters April 5th. There you are. Hey. There he is. You're the guy from the thing. From a lot of things. Yeah.

Yeah. Too many things. Is that... Do you get that? Predictable shit. No, it's not predictable. There he is. You're the guy from the thing. From a lot of things. Yeah. Yeah. Too many things. Is that, do you get that? Predictable shit. No, it's not predictable. But I mean, as a character actor, I would assume maybe you consider yourself that to

some degree or just an actor. Yeah, no, that's the whole idea. Yeah. Yeah. But so that means you kind of sign up for being like, you're that guy. I guess so. You know, I like to think that my face has practically been sewn into the great American pop culture quilt at this point.

It has. It has. You're an American tradition. That's correct. And some would say treasure. I'm the Peter Laurie of my day. A treasure. I'm the Peter Laurie of my day.

Are you? I believe so. The whole idea is like to do anything. Yeah. Is to be able to do anything. You know, I don't like this whole pigeon holding and branding shit that goes on, you know. I think it's just outrageous.

Who does it happen to in your mind? What are we seeing? Outside of the pantheon of... Well, people brand themselves. It's not like it happens to them, you know. Right. I find if you stay long enough in Los Angeles, in particular, you kind of gotta do that,

uh, because that's what people expect. I knew from a very early age that if I did that, it would be great and then people would be like, oh, we've had enough. We've had plenty. Well, you started so early. I mean, it's amazing that you avoided that somehow. In the way that when you start as a kid and you are that kid, then you're gonna be that

kid until you're not a kid anymore and then people are like, what happened to that guy? Yeah. But I knew what I could do. You know, like I knew I could do. My dad was a really talented guy who had no idea that he was. What did he do? He was a mailman in New York City for 30 years. He worked the night shift.

In the city. Yeah, he had to go to work at 3 a.m. every morning. So he was at the post office or he had delivery? The Murray Hill post office and delivery. He was sometimes, he'd box mail and sometimes he'd actually go deliver it. Did he enjoy it? No, fucking miserable, drove him crazy.

I mean, he drove him crazy. But, and he was a neurotic, you know, mess. He was the, the rhesus monkey with the wire mother. I mean, he was all fucked up, but he used to do a lot of accents. Yeah. He could do like, you know, he liked from you to do, give me an act, give me a region, you know, Italian. And he would do like, you know, and, or he'd do impressions and shit.

And, uh, and I just thought, oh, I can do that too, and I want to do that. And he was also, he was entertaining to you. Oh, dude, my father was the most... Dude, my father was... God bless him, man. First of all, he was dumb. Yeah. He was dumb, which is great. Is he not with us anymore?

He's dead as a doornail. But he's dumb, which is, which was awesome. Get yourself a dumb us anymore? He's dead as a doornail. But he's dumb, which was awesome. Get yourself a dumb father. My dad's becoming dumb. That's great. And he's only smart in one way, it turns out. There you go. A lot of people are only smart in one way.

They happen to be a doctor, but the rest of it was garbage. There's geniuses out there who are total morons. Yeah, totally. Now, my dad was a very simple man. He was intimidated by responsibility and by life in general. That's a good way to put it.

And whereas he was a very funny person who understood comedy, he really, he was unintentionally outrageously funny and the butt of every joke. And so much so that my entire family sort of would talk behind his back about the stuff that happened to him and how he would react.

There's a thousand stories, but I'll give you one. If you wanna hear one. It's a quick one. I enjoy it, yeah. Okay. Just to give you an idea of what kind of man this guy was. That's going to be great. We have time.

We gotta fill this time, Dave. He, yeah. First of all, he got shit on by birds more than anyone I could even conceive of. As a male man. As everything. The man, I personally alone in my time with him saw him get shit on by birds at least 12 times.

Doesn't that mean he's lucky? No, because he ended up dying of a rare neurological disorder and suffering really badly. So no. That whole thing about being shit on by birds, that's bullshit then. Bullshit. Okay.

At least in my dad's case. But he was, things would happen to him and he had no sort of self-awareness, he just had none. Yeah. And one time, just for an example, and there's a thousand stories, but one time, obviously, because he's my dad, right? Yeah.

But one time he went to, he called me and he said, he had custody of me on the weekends. My parents divorced when I was two years old. My mom broke a frozen steak over my dad's head, domestic violence, blood. With the steak. With the steak, yeah. So blood, I remember, it's my earliest memory.

Them getting in the fight with the steak. Yeah, and watching my mom like crumble to the floor after she did it, it's my earliest memory. Then getting in the fight with the steak. Yeah, and watching my mom, like, crumble to the floor after she did it, and watching my dad, like, bleeding profusely from his head and calling his mother and saying, I've got to get out of here. And that was how it ended. It's very sad, but it is sad. Did you stay in touch with your mother?

Oh, yeah, there's no choice. She'll be homeless if I don't. God bless her, I love her. She's a good person now. Yeah. Took about, only took 45, no, 40 years. 40. Learning curve.

But anyway, he called me and he said, hey, you wanna go to this Israeli restaurant that opened up? And I'm like, no, I don't really, I don't wanna associate with my Jewishness, and which is true to this day, and I don't like Mediterranean food. You don't really, I don't wanna associate with my Jewishness and which is true to this day, and I don't like Mediterranean food. You don't? How the?

That's the one you don't like? No. Mediterranean. Mediterranean. It's so simple. It's disgusting in my opinion. What did this to you? I don't like a lot of shit.

But which Mediterranean food would you be like, that's that? Um, well, Greek food turns me off in a major way, but if we were forgetting specific, it's the spices, man. And everything's very dry. The meat is very dry. You know, they don't believe in medium rare, which is bullshit. Anywho, he goes, Hey, I'm going to, this is where I want to come with me.

I'm like, no, that's all right. I'll pass. He goes, okay, I'm going to go and then I want to come with me. I'm like, no, that's all right. I'll pass. He goes, okay, I'm gonna go, and then I'll pick you up afterwards and we'll have a day. As we did. And so he goes, he comes in, he picks me up and he says, you're not gonna believe what happened to me. And that was kind of, you know,

if I ever wrote a biography of my dad, it would be, you're not gonna believe what happened to me. Um, because things would constantly happen to him, which was amazing. And mind you, I'm like nine, and I know my dad is a mess. And it's so funny. And I'm able to take real joy in it and appreciate it. He goes, I was eating the rice they gave me,

and I bit down on something really hard, and I spit it out, and it was an olive pit, an eaten olive pit, a pre-eaten olive pit. Right. In my mouth. What was left. What was left of the olive was in my rice somehow. And there were no olives in the dish. Yeah.

And he said, he told the waiter and the waiter was like, you must've put it there or some shit. Sure. And he was really pissed off about it. Now, my grandmother, his mother, he lived with his mother in a one bedroom apartment till he was 36 years old. And my grandmother was a wickedly funny person, wildly broad, just a super, like a comedian that never,

like an unrealized comedian. She was that for our family. She was ballsy and mean. What was her name? Her name is Martha. Yeah. She was ballsy and mean and just a prankster, just a wicked, sarcastic bastard of a person

who was also wonderful. And her prey, her number one victim was my father. She loved to fuck with him. She used to like pretend to draw a portrait of him and make him sit still and like yell at him if he moved his face. And then eventually, like after like 20 minutes, she'd turn the portrait around.

It would just be a picture of a dick in balls. And she would do that to her own son. It's so weird. Because there was, when I was younger, I worked at a deli and there was this old Jewish guy that worked at the deli who barely spoke English. And he'd always go, -"I'm gonna draw you a picture." -"Yeah."

-"And he would do that?" -"He would do that." It's a joke. It's such a funny bit. I've done it to people. So she loved to fuck with him. So I said, upon hearing this Olive Pitt story, I said, you gotta call grandma and tell her the story. Now this is before cell phones. We lived in Forest Hills, Queens,

which is a commuter neighborhood. Yeah, I know where it is. Tons of like, you know, buses and trains, subway stops, major subway. I lived in Astoria for years. Okay, so at any moment on the corner of any major intersection, Forest Hills, there's gotta be 30, 40 people just walking in and out of

work, coming back from work, whatever. Yeah. And there was a pay, a payphone booth on the, on the corner there, right by the train station. And I said, you gotta call grandma, tell her this story. She'll get a kick out of it. Yeah.

So what ensued was he, he calls my grandmother and I'm watching him and all I seeued was he, he calls my grandmother and I'm watching him and all I see is this. And I know my grandmother's fucking with him, but all I witnessed is him going, telling the story and then going, yeah, and there was an olive pit in my food. No, not, not an olive pit, the pit, not an olive,

olive pit, olive pit, the pit. And my dad, who was a big guy with a large booming voice, started screaming the word olive pit over and over in the middle of the street. Olive pit, not a pit, an olive pit. Not the olive, olive pit, olive pit, the pit of the olive. And again, no awareness. And people on the street are like, stop,

there's a man screaming. Yeah, olive pit. Olive pit. Yeah. And I'm standing there and I tell you, I was bent over. You know, like you just hit the floor. And if I tell you that happened constantly with my dad, these things, the shit that happened to my dad,

it was so funny. And he had no clue. I think there's got to be a Yiddish word for that. I'm not sure what it is. I don't know what it is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The guy who gets the brunt of everything. A shtick fleish mit zwei Eugen. It was a piece of meat with two eyes. It was amazing. He was riotously funny.

But not on purpose per se. Never, barely ever on purpose. That's a tough position. But it was great because it made it so that I'm attracted to really sort of viscerally funny belly laughter comedians. Like clever comedy is fine, you know, the UCB improv, that kind of stuff, it's also referential and clever and God bless it. But I like Brother Theodore. Did you go see him?

I never saw him, no. Oh, he's right in the village for years. I know, but I was young though. I was quite young, yeah. Man, he might have been too depressing. I might have missed the joke at that time, but I think he's probably a lot like your father. I don't think he necessarily always knew he was being funny.

I think someone told him he was funny and then he just did it in a context. No, I think he was being him. Yeah. That's who he was, which is amazing that he lived that way with that mind. But that kind of stuff has always been the funniest. I don't care about I don't care

We're your witty reference sure to give two shits about you just like make me the fall make me make you know, right? Well, there there are guys that are you know, have no choice correct? And those are the funny guys, right there are guys who are like I'm always very I like physically I like physical comedy when it's natural. When it's not thought about. There's some guys that they just can't, they cannot be funny. Correct, born funny.

Yeah, just even in movements. And then once they sort of realize their power, and it's like off to the races, Tracy Morgan to me is like crazy funny. Yeah, and a lot of times he doesn't even make sense. Right, it's good. It's just him being a character. But you like someone like Rickles.

Oh, through the roof. I mean, probably my favorite. I saw Rickles four times in Vegas. You did? Yeah, four separate times. When he was still standing? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He was jaw-droppingly funny.

I watched some of the old guys, you know, and the thing about Rickles that was amazing and probably why you liked him is that he'd go out on Carson and from the get-go he was flailing. He was already failing and just throwing for the fucking fences. It didn't start out clever or like, you know, he was taking shots that didn't make sense. He was already sweating. He was turning.

It was immediately furious panic. But then what was great about him is then he sort of would call out the audience and sort of say, oh no, if you don't get this, the joke's on you. Sure. You know, you're the butt of my jokes right now, because you're not understanding how way ahead I am. Way ahead anyway. And he would, I talk about it a lot, he would say things that made no sense.

And it was the timing. You're laughing and then you don't even think long enough to realize like that didn't even make sense. Right. I met him once when he was decrepit. Yeah. And I told him I loved him. Yes.

And I was hoping he'd be funny, but he was too decrepit to be funny. What did he say? He just said thank you. Oh. And was nice. One time, I'm a comic, right? So one time I met Jackie Mason.

Wow, I met Jackie Mason too. I didn't like him. You know, I love Jackie Mason. I don't. You don't like him as a comedian? Nope. Oh, I disagree with you. I disagree with you.

Well, that's fine. Not because I'm Jewish, like, believe me. That's exactly why I don't like him. Because what Not because I'm Jewish, like, believe me. It's not, it's... That's exactly why I don't like him. Because what? Because I'm Jewish. Yeah, no. And there was something about him, the way he contextualized Jewishness,

I pushed back on, you know, because I was not, you know, that, I fought against my Jewishness. Me too, I still do. Sorry, I know, sorry. No, it's all right. I don't anymore, but like, you know, in terms of I talk about it, but I'm not going like,

hey, but, but, but, you know what I mean? Right, right, right. But there was something about when I was starting as a comic that this stereotype that he bartered in was annoying to me, because it was limiting. And I hear you, however, on a technical level. Yeah, okay, yeah, sure.

Very good. Very good. You know, but like the direct legacy of that technique is someone like David Tell, who is fucking much more funny. Who doesn't have to do that. Well, yeah, he doesn't have to have a point of view other than whatever that weird sadness or thing that he has. He's a naturally funny guy.

I worked with David Tell, and then like two years after I worked with him, I saw him in the street and said hello to him, and he had no interest in speaking with me whatsoever. I've known him since, I've known him for 35 years, and we've had two conversations, and both were on this show, and he had to do it. Yeah, I can see that.

But it's not that he doesn't like you, he's not aloof, he's just sort of like, uh, yeah, it was clear. I didn't take it personally. Oh, but Jackie Mason, so I meet him, and you know, the owner of Catch Rising Star, Rick Newman, introduces me to Jackie Mason, he's old, and his hair is a weird color. And he's a trumper. This is before that.

This is before that, okay. No, this was like in the 90s. And Rick goes, this is Mark Maron, he's a young comedian. And Jackie Mason goes, doesn't look funny. Nice! What a sweetheart. You know, the thing is, man, here's the deal though. With the, I wanna talk about the,

distancing myself from my Jewishness. Here's the thing. You know you can't, right? What exactly? Here's the thing is like, you can pass. I'm looking at you. I know. Yeah.

Right. You can pass as a non-Jew. Sure. Right. Yeah. My name is David Krumholz. Yeah. I have the faith.

I look like I'm basically the next five ish Finkel, like there's no, and so you can imagine how desperate I am to separate myself. You're almost a racial caricature. Yeah, absolutely. That's distributed among anti-Semites. I am the poster of the Nazi propaganda poster. If I can make that face.

I just made it and it's very, yeah, authentic. But yeah, like for me, look, I'm a proud Jew. Jews are great. I have no problem with Jews, other Jews. The only Jew I have a problem with is myself. And I'm just not, I'm very much an American. Sure. For better or worse.

But I don't, I was never raised religious. Yeah, but that's just part of the Jewish cultural experience, right? Exactly. You were raised culturally Jewish. The way you talk and think is probably culturally Jewish. Absolutely. I say oy, oy, oy. I say gavalt and all that stuff.

Yeah, I don't even do that. I do that shit, and I hate when I do it. Where'd you get that? From your father, your mother, grandmother? The whole lot. All of them. Were they? My mom was born in Hungary, so my family,

her side of the family was just straight up immigrant. Like were they fleeing? They fled the Hungarian Revolution, yeah, when the Russians in 1956. Oh wow. So they'd lived through the Holocaust. Right. Yeah, and then my dad's family were Polish Brooklynites,

and so just yeah, very much in that sort of, whatever that's called. And also New York. Very Schmalzy. Yeah, I mean, and that's sort of like, I mean, you don't, you don't, you know, like I interviewed Carl Reiner once. Mm-hmm.

And, you know, him and Mel Brooks, best friends for 100 years. Right. Mel could not be more Jewish. Correct. In terms of how he presents. Carl Reiner, at some point, killed that part of him, presents. Carl Reiner at some point killed that part of him. Publicly.

Yeah, I think so. It's kind of interesting because he wanted to be an actor. And I, when I talked to him at length, he didn't say that, but it was clear that, you know, when he started, you know, he was not going to be that. Right, right, right. You didn't do that. Well, here's the deal. I don't shy away from it.

I need work. I work. If it comes in and it's like a rabbi thing, like fuck it, I's the deal. I don't shy away from it. I need work. I work. If it comes in and it's like a rabbi thing, like fuck it, I'll do it. But I don't love doing it a lot because what ends up happening is typecasting, right? And then, and then they go, Hey, go to rabbi, go to Jew is crum holds, but we've seen him do it in the last five things and we need a new crum

holds to come in and do it. And so I'm desperate to get away from those. Plus, to be honest with you, I could do it with my eyes closed. Playing a Jew is like the easiest thing. Sure. But there's a spectrum to it. And also, I don't know, right now, look, when I was growing up, there were Jewish leading men, they're gone. Correct. You know, you had Elliot Gould, there were Jewish leading men. They're gone. Correct. You know, you had Elliot Gould, James Cahn, Dustin Hoffman. And then the two Italians, and that was all of them. Pacino and De Niro, and then the three Jews, four Jews, whatever.

That was it. You're right. And right now, like even in comedy, I mean, when I was growing up, that joke I have about it is that, you know, where have all these Jews gone? And I believe that anti-depressants killed Jewish comedy. I don't know. I think I've gotten funnier. I think my anti-depressants are like making me wait.

I'm just saying in a general way. No, I hear you. I hear you. Killed Jewish comedy, yes. Yeah, yeah. Because like, you know, comedy was fundamental. American comedy was Jewish and black and that was all. And fundamentally at its core, jokes about depression. Speaking of like Woody Allen and Richard Lewis and those kinds of people, it was all about how neurotic I am, how depressed I am.

That was the generation after was Yiddish. Right, right. It was like more first person. Like you know, Lenny Bruce, like half of it's, you know, a lot of Yiddish in there. Making fun of suffrage also. Yes, yes. And also trying to get a foot up or whatever, the leg up. You know, because what were the Jews gonna do? I didn't realize until I was older that there were Jewish boxers, like a lot of them.

Oh yeah, Barney Ross. Yeah. Max Behr. Yeah. But there was a whole bunch of secondary ones. Joe Lewis. Of course, one of the great Jews. He was a major Jew.

Yeah. Yeah. My grandparents went of the great Jews. Major Jew. Yeah, yeah. My grandparents went to the same temple as him. But it's interesting, because about this, because I have feelings about it. I mean, how many times have you worked with Judd Hirsch? I've worked with Judd Hirsch, I think three times. One time I worked with him for six years. He actually gave me numbers.

On my start in acting. He did. He's like my acting dad. What was that story? I was 13, I was a normal human being kid, just to whatever extent. And I had no interest in Forest Hills. I had zero interest in doing anything,

much less becoming an actor. Yeah. And my English, my, like, sixth period English teacher was a wonderful man named Lon Blaze, and he, I had done... Good name. Lon, yeah. I had done the, uh, school play,

and he had directed it. Mm-hmm. And about a year later, or less than a year later, he said, Hey, they're coming around to our, to schools. This was a thing they were doing in the early nineties, where they'd go to public schools and they were looking for kid actors who weren't like perfect, weren't like trained, didn't know the ropes. He had to had no agent and no agent and they wanted authenticity,

fresh people and what they would do in New York City specifically is go to New York City public schools and talk to teachers and say, hey, this is the kind of kid we're looking for. If you think any kid you have is funny or talented, tell them to come down. And there was this Broadway play called Conversations with My Father, this Herb Gardner play

that Judd Hirsch was the lead of. It was to play Judd Hirsch's son. So you kinda have to resemble Judd Hirsch. And my of. It was to play Judd Hirsch's son, so you kind of had to resemble Judd Hirsch. And my teacher, Lon Blaze, God bless him, he said, hey, there's this role. You should go in. And I thought, well, that's, I don't know what, okay, sure.

And it was like on a Saturday in the basement of a church in New York City in Manhattan. And I went, I remember I went with Billy Eichner because I grew up with Billy. And Billy's so funny. And Billy had an agent and was a professional actor. He sang, he was amazingly talented even then. And we went together and there was like a thousand kids,

like the CBS Local News was there. Yeah. And I was number 88, I got there early. And I felt like, and they said, Hey, just read these lines like you're standup comedian. That was the direction. Yeah.

And I'd watched a lot of standup, you know, on TV, so that was easy for me. And they called me back six times over the course of the next eight weeks. And each time there were less and less kids until eventually it became clear that it was down to me and another kid who happens to be a wonderful comedic comedy director named Jason Walliner. Really good dude. So he was the other kid. He was a kid actor and I'd seen him

on like commercials, Saturday morning cartoon stuff. And I was like, oh shit, he's gonna get it because he's a pro. And I went in and Judd Hirsch was at the final audition. Yeah. And at the end of it, I did my thing. It was a very dramatic play, and Judd Hirsch said, you're a really good actor. And I was like, okay, sure, whatever, I guess I am. And then I left, and they didn't call for like three weeks.

And I thought, oh, that's gross. Like, I just spent eight weeks auditioning for this thing and getting my hopes up. You would think they'd call at least to say, hey, you didn't get it. Welcome to show business. Right. And then they fucking called. Mm.

And I was an actor on Broadway with a large part in a great Broadway play suddenly. And it was big, right? And it was big. It ran for a year. Judd Hirsch won the Tony for best actor. And yeah, it was just, I, I was stupid and, and misbehaved and I had no idea what a professionalism was.

Right. I didn't care. Did you learn? I did. So much so that a couple of years later, they rebooted the play in LA and I saw it with Judd and, and, and Tony Shalab was in it and they were all in the original Broadway production.

And I just showed up and went backstage afterwards and profusely apologized to all of them. I was just like, I'm sorry that I was so out of control. Did they feel like you needed to? No, they got it. I mean, I was out of control, but... What does that mean? What did they expect?

I was just pranking, just doing pranks, like never stopping, like just being annoying. But you weren't, there were no hookers or blow. No, not yet. Not yet. Not yet. Yeah. But yeah, you know, I just felt like,

oh shit, I should apologize to these people because I really was out of control. But you know, what do you expect? I mean, I was a kid off the street, literally. But talking about Jewishness, the thing about Judd, because you worry about being typecast. Yeah. By the way, Judd worries about it too.

He's 95, isn't he? He's 89. He turned 89 two days ago. But this is the interesting thing about Judd, is that with Judd, you get the full spectrum of jewelry. Correct. You don't, like, we were looking for a father to play on my show on IFC.

And all these old actors, they all are kind of available if you just pay them. And Judd, everyone wanted Judd. And I said, I can't do it. My father's not like, boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, boop. Not this dewy guy. Right. My father's not like, boop boop, boop, boop, boop, boop. You know, he's not this Jew-y guy. My dad's a bipolar fucking nut job. And Judd is gonna do the Jew thing.

But they're like, but they're not working. But I'm like, fine, fine. And we're shooting the first day. And Bobcat Goldthwait's directing. I got my showrunners there. And it's Judd's first day as my dad, and he's doing it. He's doing the cute Jew thing. And I'm like and he's doing it. He's doing the cute Jew thing. Okay.

And you know, and I'm like, he's doing it. What are we gonna do? And the showrunners are like, I don't know. And Bobby is like, you know, I don't know. I'm like, what do you mean you don't know? He's an actor. Go tell him. Just tell him.

I'm sure he was thrilled to hear him take the Jewness down. Well, they told him that he's bipolar, he's got an edge to him and like that. Yeah. Fucking nailed it. Oh, jumped at to him, and like that. Yeah. Fucking nailed it. Oh, jumped at the chance, I'm sure.

Yeah, it was beautiful. He deals with the same thing I do, which is Jew face. Yeah. Like blatant Jew face. Right. And he has this whole career, and they're always casting him as old rabbis and wanting him to do thick accents,

and he's like, fuck that shit. He was the best part of the fabled ones. Well, because he's an intellect, and he plays the intellect. Yeah, but also kind of a free spirit. You know what I mean? It was definitely a type. And I'm sure you got to know him and that he is that.

He's a wild dude. He's like an ox. He's like a bull. He's like an ox. He's definitely a bull and you know, it's surprising, you know, the life he's led. But you know, actors choose acting for a lot of different reasons. Correct. A lot of it has to do with, you know know not wanting a regular job, living the life you want to

live and getting away with something. And also ego feeding and you know workaholic type you know torture shit. Yeah for you. For me yeah. Because I find that, I work harder when I'm not working on a movie or a TV series or a play. At what? I just, I'm very communicative with my representation.

Oh, okay, so you're like, why the fuck did this guy? Basically, I live and breathe this shit. I live and breathe Hollywood. You know why? I got nothing else. I grew up worshiping films, worshiping comedians, worshiping actors. I got super lucky to be that time and that Broadway player.

I got crazy lucky, man. That doesn't happen to anybody. I don't know anybody else that's happened to. So I owe it to the privilege of whatever divine intervention was involved with me ending up an actor at all to like fight my way through this as hard as I can and to live and breathe it. And that's what I do. That's what I've always done. You know, I... For opportunity.

For opportunities. Right. Yeah. But when... No, no, no. For opportunities. Not jobs. For opportunities. Right. Yeah. But when no, no. For opportunities. Not jobs. For opportunities. Right.

Yeah. But when you're on the set, now... That's the easy part. Well, I know it's easy for a lot of people, but I can't stand waiting. A lot of waiting. Well, there's so much waiting in between jobs, though. So by the time I get to a set... That's okay waiting?

Yeah. They tell me it's like three hours. I'm like, I've been waiting three months. So that's three years. So that's fine. No, I love... I don't love waiting either. I did a comedy, I don't wanna say what it was, but I did a comedy, and you know,

comedies should be shot quickly. I did this big studio comedy of like 15, 16, maybe 20 years ago, and god damn, the DP spent, the director of photography, spent like eight hours setting up every simple. I never understand that. And I was like, what the fuck is going on on there?

Like, where's the momentum? It's gone. You know, there's just, there's gotta be momentum in comedy, there's gotta be. Did it turn out funny? In my opinion, not really. Okay. But some people like it.

Had nothing to do with you. I cannot say what it was. I'll tell you, you're. Because it'll hurt people. I'm trying nothing to do with you. I cannot say what it was. I'll tell you- Because it'll hurt people. I'm trying not to do any harm today. My, my, uh, really? Yeah, I could do a lot of harm at any moment. You kinda went nuts on Twitter for a while, didn't you?

I did, that's why I stopped. What drove that? Um. I mean, like how, because I don't, like- Craving attention? But do you get to a point where the anger, the righteous anger in your mind, and probably correctly, is justified.

And then, you know, you get on that role and you're like, I'm doing it. Here's the deal. It fueled years of my career, that righteous anger. Many years. But it wasn't making me that much better an actor. But didn't it upset your representation? Were you like that on set? No.

No, never. I'm the loveliest person on earth. I'm an oracle. I'm a light. People flock to me. And it did not upset, well, it upset my shitty representation early on. By, you know, agents who have all quit the business.

My first five agents are not agents anymore. They weren't meant to do this and I had to work my way around them. But the problem thing, the thing that you know that I didn't learn until later, I used to do that too. My entire early career as a standup and it didn't get any opportunities, was me on the phone with my manager saying, how the fuck did he get that? Who the fuck is, you know, what? And this is a big guy who is at a company

that produce things. I can't even get a reading? So once you realize you're just this bartering tool, a lot of times you're gonna get something because someone's doing your guy a favor. Right, right, right. It's fucking awful.

And not only that, but your agent is only getting you the job to impress other agents, not impress you. And once they've got you the job, they can always say they did and they don't have to get you another one. Sure. Unless they're creative themselves.

And only the last 10 years have I had amazing representation. All the other guys are gone though, guys. They literally quit the business. They got laughed out of the business. I mean, literally, there was one guy that just, I don't even, dude, his whole circumstance was crazy. Married a wild woman.

She became a reality star. It was so strange. Anyway, you know, I have fought my way through and I need fighters on my team because people underestimate or because people want a pigeon home. And I knew that from very early on. And it's very hard to convince anyone in this business that you can do anything or that you believe you can do anything and then you can actually sort of kind of deliver

most of the time. Right, but you gotta keep them remembering you or else you gotta make a lot of money for somebody. Correct, and it's just about surprising the shit out of people. Well, I mean, like, would you say that your big break was the swarms of Beverly Hills in movies? No, no, I would say the Santa Claus.

Really? Yeah, mm-hmm, yeah. Because swarms the Santa Claus. Really? Yeah, yeah. Because Slums Beverly Hills is great. Slums Beverly Hills was when people started taking me seriously as an actor. Because in the Santa Claus, Santa Claus was a huge hit, but I played a fucking Christmas elf. Right.

And people go, cute little kid playing a Christmas elf. Yeah, that movie makes money, that movie. And it makes a lot of money. Right. Slums Beverly Hills was when people sort of said, and that's when Judd Apatow saw me and said, hey, there's something else there that's more than just a kid actor.

Right. What did he put you in? We did a pilot called Sick in the Head. It was me, Kevin Corrigan, Amy Poehler, Andrea Martin, and Austin Pendleton. Yeah. It was a sick cast. Kevin McDonald from the Kids in the Hall. And it was brilliant.

It was a multicam sitcom, but it was character driven, which was different at the time because there was a lot of friends. You hear the writers' room in every multicam sitcom suddenly, whereas this was like a throwback to 80s multicams where it was more like character. Jim Ignatowski would make a face and that would get a laugh.

Right. Because you knew what he was thinking or you didn't know what he was thinking. Right. That's the joke. So he wrote this brilliant thing called Sick in the Head about two roommates in LA. And huge response at our taping and then,

and it didn't get picked up. It didn't it it was shocking What year was that that was God that was like? 1998 I want to say and had you been through that before that that sort of incomprehensible Kind of confusion and disappointment of like how could this not that was really the first time yeah Yeah, where I was like this is bullshit right everyone loves this fucking thing. Yeah, where I was like, this is bullshit. Right. Everyone loves this fucking thing. Yeah. It played really well.

What's the problem here? What's the disconnect? Yeah. And the same year, Judd also produced Freaks and Geeks. Right. And Freaks and Geeks got picked up. Right. And thank God, because I decided to come out to LA

and live here on my own and try to make something of myself. Yep. And Judd knew I was really, really lonely. Yeah. And he was like, hey, just come hang out on the Freaks and Geeks set and meet everybody. And those became my dearest friends.

You know, all those actors became my dearest friends. Thank God for that, or else I would have gone crazy. And Martin stars in this new one. And Martin stars in Lousy Carter. Yeah, Martin is just a precious individual. He is. Have you met Martin? I've talked to Martin. I love Martin very much. Yeah, Martin is just a precious individual. He is. Have you met Martin?

I've talked to Martin. I love Martin very much. Yeah, he's a great guy. He means well. He means well, but also he's like a thoughtful, spiritual dude. Yes, and he wasn't always that. Martin could be frustrating at times.

In what kind of way? Early on. Well, you know, showing up three hours late to things. You know, you'd make a plan, hey, you wanna grab lunch? Oh, that's just personal stuff, yeah. He'd literally text you, hey, I'm on my way, and then show up three hours later, but he lived like five minutes away. And then you'd say, hey, Martin,

what the fuck were you doing that took you three hours? And he would always say the same thing. I was thinking in the shower. Well, that's a deep guy. He was thinking in the shower. Which is amazing. That's the name of his autobiography, thinking in the shower. So within like a few years, I just want to know like, you know, going from, you know, Judd Hersch and being in that presence in terms of learning something.

Right. Right. Learned everything in that moment. And then you get to work with Alan Arkin, who is the best. The best. The best. Riotously funny human being.

Reminding me so much of my father, because deeply, deeply neurotic, but the smart version, the brilliant version. But deeply neurotic man. And he once told me, you know, when I first met him, we, we, for some reason, me, Natasha Leon, Kevin Corrigan, and Marisa Tomei sat around talking about depression. Yeah.

And Alan said, I'll never forget, direct quote Alan said, I was standing on a bridge in Nova Scotia looking out over a lake and I decided I'd either throw myself in the lake or spend the rest of my life working on myself. And it was, and then, you know, it was just such a revealing thing to say. He was saying, Hey, I almost killed myself. Yeah. It was on our first day of meeting him.

Like here we are sharing stories about, Oh, I was depressed. And here he comes with like, Oh, I've been suicidal pretty much my whole life. Yeah. And I'm playing you playing the patriarch of this family. And that's such a great movie, that movie. Yeah. It's my favorite still of all the things I've done. Yeah. Because I didn't think it was gonna be amazing.

I thought it'll be all right. Yeah. And it came out so well. Tamar Jenkins just did an amazing job with it. And it was also a fucked up production. Like we were a week behind, two weeks in. They sent the bondsman to the set. And, but Alan was, I'll tell you a crazy story.

Yeah. Okay, I have a lot of Alan Arkin stories, but my favorite one. I loved him. I never got to talk to him. I loved him too. He called me Crumbhorn. Crumbhorn.

And I would do the impression for him. And he would say, you can only do it once a week from now on No, because it's bothering me He had ticks. He had like physical ticks. Yeah. Yeah, he was very paranoid about his lines He couldn't remember remember his lines and sometimes when it was his close-up, he'd be like, you know, sitting there going Going through his lines and I tortured him and I would say Alan you okay and, you okay? And he'd go, I guess I'm okay, yeah, why, do I seem not okay? But he, one time, so the sort of climax of the film

is Carl Reiner comes into town, plays his brother, and his brother has been financially supporting the family for years. I remember, yeah, yeah. For years. And the scene is, we meet in an airport diner, and Alan is once again gonna ask his brother, Carl Reiner, for more money. Yeah.

And Carl Reiner's like, what the fuck? Right. It's enough already, don't you think? Yeah. So he's got, so Carl Reiner plays his brother, and Rita Marino plays Carl Reiner's wife. So just an amazing day on set. And Marissa's there and Natasha and the little kid

played by Eli, Mary and Thal and me. We sit down at the table with Carl Reiner and Rita Moreno and Alan is coming. He hasn't arrived, he's the last to arrive. And we're gonna rehearse and start the day. And Carl Reiner and Rita Moreno and Alan is coming. He hasn't arrived. He's the last to arrive and we're going to rehearse and start the day. And Carl Reiner and Rita Moreno are lovely and exactly what you'd hope they would be. Yeah.

And here comes Alan and there's silence and Carl Reiner, first thing out of Carl Reiner's mouth is last time I saw you 30 years ago, you told me to go fuck myself. And then Rita, who worked with him on Poppy chimes in, yeah, you were a real nasty son of a bitch, have you changed? Right off the bat.

And Alan, you know, it was hard and we're all witness to this and we love Alan and he's this tortured person. Alan was wildly tortured human being and he, it was so, it was the scene. But not the scene. It was the exact thing we were about to do. Emotionally.

Where he'd be demoralized and degraded for being kind of. And Alan sat there and he, you know, his head, you know, staring at the floor. And he said, I've changed and I'm not the same anymore and I'm very sorry about. And that's how the day had to start. It had to start that way. They had to clear the air.

Carl Reiner was like, oh no, the first thing I'm gonna say to this guy is... It was in the barrel. It was in the chamber for years. Yeah, for years. And then we had a wonderful day. Carl Reiner took us into his trailer and played a demo tape for the 2000 year old man

in the year 2000. It was just me, Alan Arkin and him listening to, and I just pinched myself shit. and played a demo tape for the 2,000 year old man in the year 2000. Right, yeah. It was just me, Alan Arkin, and him listening to, and I just pinched myself shit. Yeah, sure, absolutely. Before it came out, no one had ever heard it, and it was like Carl Reiner just seeing if we thought it was funny.

It was incredible. Yeah. But yeah, I miss Alan. Alan was wonderful. I tried to work with him again. I wanted him to play my father in something I wrote, and he called and he said, it's ground I've covered, so I don't want to do it again.

He said, you know, I would do it, but it's ground I've covered. And, ooh, I'm playing my dad? Which was, I think, his way of saying, like, I don't like you at all. I didn't like working with you. I don't know. I don't know. There was definitely, I annoyed him.

I enjoyed annoying him. But it seems like everybody did. Here's the deal. You ever around someone who's such a character that when they're at their full-blown angriest, it's the most funny thing you've ever seen and you have to hide your laughter? Sure. I like trying to get people to that point.

Oh, yeah. Me too. That was Alan's thing. One time we were shooting a scene. Oh yeah, me too. That was Alan's thing. One time we were shooting a scene. Oh my God. And we're in the car and it's a hot car and we're on a process trailer. And on the process trailer, the director and the first AD

start yelling at each other. And it's Alan's closeup. And he's trying to remember his lines, like, desperately trying. And all of us, and he hears this fight break out and we can hear it in the car and it's insane. And Alan just start, just says, will everybody please calm fucking down this mass hysteria is

driving everyone fucking crazy. And bro, I lost my mind and I'm sitting next to him and I can sitting next to him and I can't hide it. Yeah. I'm dying. Yeah. Screaming laughter.

Yeah. And he's, I'm glad you think it's funny. This is ridiculous. Keep laughing, you know, so. Anyway, that's great. Yeah, he was wild. I swear to God, his character in Little Miss Sunshine, to me, it's like, that's the perfect old man.

Right, right, right. No, it's like, if I can turn out that way, just quietly doing heroin occasionally. And here's the crazy thing about Alan Arkin. Alan Arkin, bold, was the only actor I've ever worked with, at 65 years old, mind you. Who bold faced told everyone on that set, I should have won an Academy Award and I still want to.

Now that's a big thing for an actor, to come out and tell other people, I wish I'd won an award though. Like yeah, people know who I am. To kill a monkey or something? No, for Hard as a Lonely Hunter. Hard as a Lonely Hunter, that's what it is. He was like, I should have won've done, no for, no, uh, uh, hard as a lonely hunter. Hard as a lonely hunter. That's what I thought.

Yeah. He was like, I should have won. I still want to win. I won't be happy until I win an Academy award. He was so bold faced and I thought, wow, that's pretty ballsy of you to like sort of let your guard down and tell people that. He also wanted a Porsche Carrera.

You would see Porsche Carrera. Yeah. He would see Porsche Carreras drive by and make like a thirsty, like. Like he wanted to eat. Why couldn't he have a Porsche Carrera? He was having financial issues at the time. Anyway, so that when he won for Little Miss Sunshine, he went up and made a speech and

he played it off. He kind of played like, oh, this is nice. Thank you so much. I knew that he was fucking thrilled and that of course, and that his dream had come true and that he, he was good now. He was going to be fine for the rest of his days. He was going to be a happy satiated man.

That's great. And I sent him flowers and he never responded. That's okay. You know who else used to like talk about winning an Academy Award? The guy who played my mom's boyfriend on my show. It's a second tier Alan Arkin. Michael Lerner.

Michael Lerner. Oh my God, I got some Michael Lerner stories. Oh my God. You? No, I've never met Michael Lerner, but when I was shooting Oppenheimer, a little movie called Oppenheimer. You're great. I know.

It was great. I know. Um, it was great. I just love the sort of the chorus of Jew nerds in that movie. Mm. Yeah, led by Killian Murphy. Yeah. Um, but anyway, um, we're shooting. So Chris Nolan is a genius, a real genius. There's no dummy.

There's no dumb part of him. He is the real thing. Yeah. Probably the no dummy. There's no dumb part of him. He is the real thing. Yeah. Probably the only one I've ever met. Really? And I've worked with some really, really, really, really smart people who are considered geniuses. But I would say, in my opinion.

What was the moment that you realized that? Hmm. Because there is usually that moment where you're like, oh my god. We were doing a scene in the desert and we showed up to the set and it was already amazing watching him. He is the spectacle on the set.

Because he never sits down and he micromanages every little thing in the movie. He's the head of every department. He's not like a director that goes, I'm hoping that everything is taken care of. He takes care of it. And we showed up and I was already enamored with him. He's very funny too.

He's super sarcastic and funny. And they had built a windmill and it was windy and the windmill made a little noise when it turned. And he just, it's none of his concern and it barely made noise. But Chris turned and said, that's gonna fuck us. That noise is gonna fuck us.

And I just thought, God, this guy's so fucking aware of every little goddamn thing on this set. He's just, he's like a quarterback. He sees the whole field. And anyway, he, we were doing this scene. Did they fix it? They fixed it immediately, yeah. Um, and anyway, he, we were doing this scene. Did they fix it? They fixed it immediately. Yeah.

Um, but we were doing this scene where I tell Oppenheimer that I'm, I'm not gonna come to Los Alamos because I don't believe in building this bomb. And, uh, you know, the, the craven part of me, I guess, was like, I should scream at him at one point. I should get loud, you know, because I'm, you know. At Oppenheimer. At Oppenheimer, and this will be my little, this will be my little Academy Award moment. Sure, sure.

And so I did that in the first two takes. And Chris Nolan walked over and he said, it's a bit Michael Lerner what you're doing. And I thought, are you saying that as a negative thing? He said, it's a bit Michael Lerner what you're doing. And I thought, are you saying that as a negative thing? It's a bit Michael Lerner. I said, oh shit, well I guess I don't wanna be Michael Lerner in this moment. You don't, yeah.

It's a bit Michael Lerner. You might wanna avoid that. But Chris was such a sarcastic man. I mean, we did the first scene, he does like four takes usually of everything, and he did 14 takes of my first scenes close up. And he walked up to me after he said, 14 takes, and I said, fucking sorry.

And then, oh dude, and then he just, he fucked with me the whole time. And it took me a while to realize, oh, he's not being serious, he's just fucking with me. He likes to make me tremble. He's doing what you did to Arkin. Basically, he just fucking with me. He likes to make me, you know, tremble. He's doing what you did to, uh, Arkin. Basically, he's fucking with me. Yeah, he wants to see you pop. You know I respect that.

Yeah, of course. There was one day I, uh, I had to fart. Yeah. I was standing next to a sitting Robert Downey Jr. Yeah. And they're setting up a shot. There's no stand-ins, so you've got to just stand there. Yeah.

And man, I had to fart. I knew it was a bad one. I knew, you know, when you know, you know, this one's got a heat to it. This one's got a heat. And I thought, I can't do this. I cannot fart, but you're not allowed to move off your mark. It's a very strict set. He wants it like a play and blah, blah, blah.

And I said, well, listen, I'm not going to fart in Robert Dooney's face. It's not going to happen. So I walked to the corner of the room briefly and farted. With, I turned around, well, listen, I'm not gonna fart in Robert Doone down his face. It's not gonna happen. So I walked to the corner of the room briefly and farted with, I turned around, he stand, Chris is standing over me. I'm talking about five seconds. So he saw me move and was like, Oh no,

Kramalta is moving, fuck that shit. And came after me and I farted and he, and he goes, what were you doing? And I said, I, I fucking, I just farted. I had to fart. And he goes, you farted in the most snobby British, like, and I said, yeah, you can't even fart on this set, Chris, you bastard. We're not farting here.

And he's like, get back on your mark. Michael Lerner's playing my mom's husband. And we're shooting in this condo. And now, look, dude, he's got a fucking trailer in front of the place. We're shooting in a condo. And it's like, low budgets, IFC. We're just trying to get by.

I did an IFC show, by the way. But go on, so I know about it. So the video village is in the bathroom of this condo. And we're trying to make, make it work. And we're shooting in there and then we, you know, there's a break. We all go out and we come back and Michael Lerner had shit in the video village. He had shit in the bathroom. Okay. That was the video village.

He had a trailer right out front. Oh, and he just went in there and he shit. Oh, In my mind, it was like, just to let everyone know. Michael Learner's here. Yeah. Yeah. Holy shit. And he was also the guy that's like, can I keep this robe? Oh, yeah.

Yeah, any of them. Of course. What about these plants? Are they set? They're everything. What about these plants? Now, how do I keep them alive? Yeah, yeah. I fucking loved them though. And he's also one of those guys who, like, poor Sally Kellerman, who was playing his wife, who was supposed to be his mother, she could not remember line for line. Like, you know, Bobcat was shooting that one,

and we had to shoot, he amazingly was able to do it, just by giving her the line and keeping it, you know, just only using her shots, no group shots, because she couldn't do it. And Lerner is trying to sort of like, we know each other, to her. And she, and she, you know, he would walk away and she goes, I don't think I like it.

And like, because he was on every fucking TV show. He was also the guy that fucks with your head before each take so he can fucking shine. Like, you know, we were, oh yeah, we do scenes. He's like, do you think you got this one? Oh, action. Here we go. You know, like, yeah, yeah.

He was a real fucking piece of work, but I loved it. I loved it. I love character act. I love working with real character. I mean, the great thing about character actors and people like that is they're the punchiest. They've been through so much disappointment and fucking close to big things and never...

They are punchiest. They've been driven crazy. But a lot of them are, you know, real kind of free-spirited dudes. Like, that's what they want to be doing. Absolutely. And like a lot of the guys, the character actors, like this, they don't want the pressure. They just want to be doing. Absolutely. You know, and like a lot of the guys that the character acts is like this, they don't want the pressure, they just want to be that guy. I wanna be that guy.

Yeah. I just wanna be a storyteller. Yeah. I just wanna be like, holy shit, that guy has so many fucking stories and you know, that's all I've, you know, that's legendary shit, I think. I think the great thing about you though,

as an actor is that you're always like singular. Like, you know, you always hold the screen, you're not gonna an actor is that you're always like singular like you know you always hold The screen you're not gonna. You know you're you which is good. Yeah, I think so I I don't know I just Well even the fucking Coen Brothers movie which I love mm-hmm like I defend Hail Caesar constantly It's an amazing movie people don't fucking put it into the best Coen Brothers movie that I don't understand what the movie's about That it's a very inside movie. I guess so.

I just loved it. Like a double feature of that and Barton Fink. They go like, it's almost a sequel, a prequel. Hail Caesar is exactly what anyone in this business that really cares, the nerds, what they want to say, which is essentially that it's a job. And there's tons of glamour and glitz and gossip that surrounds it, but it's a fucking job.

People wake up in the morning and do the show. And the difference between the magic you see on screen and the take prior that got fucked up, which is what happens at the end of that movie, Clooney fucks up an amazing take, is minuscule, but it's enough to fucking, you know, make it so that you gotta do it again and get it right. And hundreds of people have to reset. Correct. And what I've come to realize for myself is that this business is,

like the country, divided down the middle. 50% nerds, 50% scumbags. Yeah. Failing upward talentless scumbags. That's what this is, sycophantic, you know, talk the talk, barely can walk the walk scumbags. And 50% beautiful, earnest nerd artists. and 50% beautiful, earnest nerd artists. And the problem, the problem now, and maybe this has always been the problem,

is that sometimes the nerds become the scumbags, but the scumbags never become the nerds. So they just add more scumbags. Yeah, and that the scumbags protect the scumbags. They protect each other, and the nerds don't do enough protecting of each other. That's, to me, Hollywood in a nutshell.

Yeah. And that's what that movie's about. That's what that movie's about. And in all truth, I didn't know that when I read it. I couldn't gleam it. And I'll tell you what made me realize it. This is an amazing story. Yeah.

I'm on the Hail Caesar set. It's lunchtime. I decide I'm Hail Caesar set, it's lunchtime. I decide I'm not going to go to the lunch area. I'm going to sit and eat a sandwich from craft service on the set. And the Coen brothers do the same thing. They're like off in another room on set plotting out the next shot or after lunch or whatever. And the door to the stage opens and fucking Terrence Malick walks in. Okay, now Terrence Malick, major recluse,

you know, legendary reclusive director, kind of considered a nut, amazing filmmaker, walks in and I know it's him. And there's a little, there's a young PA who runs over and goes, excuse me sir, this is a closed set, and I go, hey wait, this is Terrence Malick. You should let him on. And Terrence Malek just goes, Hey, are the

brothers here? And if they are, I'd love to talk to them. He comes over unannounced. He doesn't have an appointment with them. So they go and they have lunch together. He sits with the Cohen brothers. And I know that's happening on the other side of the stage and whatever.

So after we come back from lunch, I walk up to Ethan Coen and I say, that's crazy. Fucking Terrence Malick of all people just shows up and has lunch with you guys. Yeah. And Ethan turned to me and with complete truth, he said, we're not that impressed by filmmakers. And in that moment, I thought that's what

the movie's about. Holy shit. that's what the movie's about. Holy shit, that's what this movie's about. Yeah. You know, I needed that to happen for me to understand. I was just lucky to be, I just felt like I'm lucky to be in it. I don't really understand what they're getting at with this one. But I think that's the, you know, that's the reason that movie's so tragically underseen and not valued is people don't,

you have to be in the business, I think, to really understand. Is that the same with Barton Fink, maybe? No, because Barton Fink is more of very much an existential crisis of a man type thing, which is relatable to, you know. I just thought that the turn, like, I thought like Josh Brolin was amazing in the hell season.

Because he was carrying the whole thing and it was really what you're talking about, the job of it. And his need to protect not only the business, from the top to where he is, but also the actors. And he had to manage all what you're saying. And he wasn't a douchebag. No, and he was a good guy, except he could get tough.

But he was struggling with himself. Correct. But you had that part, and you were hilarious. Thank you. And you had to make decisions in that moment, because it was a big room, not a huge part. Right. And you were punctuating an intensity.

That's what they wanted. I showed up, they said, grow a full beard. So I did. And then I showed up and they said, shave him completely. And I did. And then they looked at me again and said, slap a mustache on him. So I had had the mustache.

They made me shave it. And then they were like, oh no. Once the mustache was on, it was like, oh, I know exactly what I'm gonna do. I'm just gonna play the mustache, which is what I do in that movie. That was your focus? Just play the mustache, yeah.

Just scrunch up my face and make the mustache look funny. That was really the whole job. But what is it about them? Because I noticed, I watched Ethan's movie that he did with his wife, the new one. It's different because it's half the Coens. Right. And there's a way that, you know, I don't know,

I'll ask you, is it, is it, they're a way of acting in a Coen's movie or is it just the way they see it? There's a very simple answer to that. Okay. It has nothing to do with acting. Right. It's eyes.

They're big into sad eyes. Really? If you watch their movies, so many of their Tarturo and Buscemi and Tony Shalab and... Sad eyes. Yes, sad eyes. Very sad looking eyes. Expressively depressed, sad eyes. But they also have a unique sense of timing.

Oh, absolutely. They have a unique sense of timing. Oh, absolutely. I mean, they have a unique sense of a lot of things. But I think you get cast for your eyes. I believe that. You never, you haven't asked one of them? No, I never went that far. I was convinced the first couple days on Hail Caesar that Joel in particular hated me.

It seems like an easy thing to think about him. Yeah. Yes. Uh, we were at the craft service table one day and I, I thanked him for the job. I said, hey, thanks, you know, it means a lot to me. And he shrugged me off and I thought, oh, he hates me. But actually, I love Joel and Joel came, uh, you know, when we did, uh, the Ballad of Buster Scruggs, uh, hes, they were both wonderful.

They're wonderful. They're hilarious and wonderful. Did you like Serious Man? I've never seen it. I don't watch a lot of things. The Jew movie. I know that. I think that's probably why I didn't see it.

It's interesting. Yeah. I think you'd like it. I think it's funny. And I'm not gonna lie to you, jealousy is there, or was there. Oh yeah. I heard, oh, it's a Jewish You know, and I'm not gonna lie to you, jealousy is there, or was there. Oh yeah. You know, I heard, oh, it's a Jewish movie

about a young Jewish guy, and I thought, well, what the fuck? And then Inside Lou and Davis, you know, that. You could've done that too. Well, I look a lot like Oscar Isaac, and I did at the time, certainly with a beard. Yeah. So much so that my lovely sweet dad was at home and a commercial popped up and he

called me and he said, how come you didn't tell me you were in this movie? Oh, really? And I said, that's not me. So that one hurt, but I love Oscar Isaac. He's a wonderful actor. I had to watch that one twice. A really great person. Yeah.

So. I had to watch it twice to get it. Yeah. It's, it's, it's, you know. It's a movie about grief. Right. I don't think it's their greatest moment. I think Oscar Isaac is wonderful in it. But, you know.

When that hillbilly clocks him though, and you find out why, it's a pretty good punchline. True Grit is a great remake. Yeah, I thought it was good too. And I love the old stuff. I mean, everybody talks about the big Lebowski, but man, Raising Arizona. Me too everybody talks about the big Lebowski guy. Man, Raising Arizona. Me too.

I'm not a Lebowski guy. Yeah, no, I'm not that big a Lebowski guy either. Almost every other one. Right. Over that one, for me. Correct. I'm the same. I'm in the same.

I like, shit, I like the one with Tom Hanks, the, what's that one called? The, not the, Oh yeah, the one where he plays the dandy, the southern guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I can't remember that one a lot too. Yeah. So this one year, this new one, lousy.

Carter. Carter. Did you see it? I did. Really? I watched it last night. Thanks. Yeah, it's great. It's fun.

It's an interesting, like the, it's a stylized thing. That guy has a vision. Yeah, he's. And it's interesting to watch a. That guy has a vision. Yeah, he's interesting to watch a director who commits to a vision. You know, his whole thing is basically tearing down convention. Yeah. And that's all his films are,

you know, that's true of all his films. It's sort of, you know, going, oh, look at these filmic tropes. Yeah. And let's undo them somehow. Yeah. In a very almost breaking the fourth wall way. Where you know you're telling,

we know we're telling you a story, you know you're watching it. There's no, like, you're not supposed to be immersed in the film, you're supposed to go home. It's not natural. Correct. And with this, he just took the trope of, guy finds out he's going to die,

he has six months to die. Yeah. And to live, I should say. And turned it on its head, which, you know, he came to me and I said, what if he's, you know, what I'm gleaming from this script when I read it, and knowing him, I know Bob Byington, the director, writer, I know him really well.

Yeah. I said, this is a movie about a guy who's thrilled when he finds out he's going to die. Yeah. He's actually relieved. Yeah. No one likes him. He's kind of a dick. This is like, you know, and he gets to keep

it as a secret, like sociopathically, he really doesn't tell anybody except his ex girlfriend that he's dying. Whereas most people would scream, I'm dying to everyone. Yeah. And he keeps his little fun secret that he keeps and it allows him to maybe take risks

and behave a little differently and teach this last. But not much. But not much. Little bits. Like nothing changes. And he doesn't even go all the way with it. Right. The idea that this big news comes into this guy's life

and he doesn't change that much. And he doesn't change in the way most people would. To me, that's the brilliance of the film and what you're watching, that's the uniqueness of it. Yeah, I like the tone of it. I like that woman who plays your ex-girlfriend too. Olivia Thoroughby? Yeah, she's very good. Yeah, she's really great.

Everybody was really good. Martin was good, Steven Roots, always nice to see Steven Roots. Luxy Banner, the girl who plays my student. Yes, she's great. It's fucking great. She's great. And she, out of nowhere, out of nowhere, loved her. I like the tone, you know.

It didn't take me long to get into it in terms of getting what he was doing. And I liked the college. It was funny. It was funny and it was weird. It was weird and funny and working on it was a bit of a nightmare. We shot it in 15 days in Texas. Bob Buyington is a brilliant man who is so self-hating and deeply angry

and embarrassed by himself. Really? Which by the way, I totally relate to. Um, but there were moments where you'd have to sort of rein Bob in as, like, as I've never had to rein in a director, a director usually reigns me in. Yeah. In this case, I kind of had to say to Bob a few times, hey, be good to yourself, man.

Yeah. You're wonderful. And this whole thing you do of like, I'm terrible and, you know, or I'm... Are you saying that? Yeah, or I'm really angry at people. Like, don't put yourself, like, I get it, the self-deprecating thing, it works and then it doesn't. So at a certain point, it becomes sort of half tragic.

Right. And then, but I think he was, he was doing that to get me to that place. He was sort of going, hey, not play me, but this is the conceit of the film and it's the conceit of the character, it's who he is, he's this guy. Who have surrendered to self-hate.

Correct. Right. And so, you know, he was doing it to sort of, for me to emulate that. Oh, okay. Which was, you know, kind of him. But it also broke my heart a little bit. I mean, Bob Byington is a wonderful human being

and he's heartbreaking on some level. But he's an amazing artist in that he is able to sort of put that heartbreak in the words and into action. And there's something very, Lousy Carter is a funny movie. And it's a real simple bit. Guy finds out he's gonna die, finds out he's not gonna die. And yet there's a real simple bit. Guy finds out he's gonna die,

finds out he's not gonna die. And yet there's a sadness to it. There's a bit of like a melancholy, like what is life worth if you can just find out you're gonna die and then you're not? You like doing comedy though, don't you? I do, I'm doing one right now, which is the craziest, and they're letting me do everything.

And you make these smaller movies and you like, like lousy Carter and you just go home, this will, I hope this is seen. Are you psyched about that? It's your movie. I'm super psyched about it, but I've done five others that have never been seen. Yeah. Or that barely. And you, you give, you work your ass off on these things.

Late nights, long hours, no budget, treated like shit, fucking giving your all. You're expected to just be part of the crew. We're all. Like once I did one with Natasha Lyonne. It's me and Natasha Lyonne. It's a movie called My Suicidal Sweetheart. And no one saw that fucking film and it's brilliant.

And I worked my balls off on it. So I'm doing one now, same thing. I'm just like, I just hope people see it. So whenever, so the fact that Lousy Carter, the fact that I'm here talking to you and I get to promote it here is huge because it just means that like, thank God it's gonna be seen.

Thank God, because I worked my balls off on it. You get paid nothing. They're ultra low budget. You get paid like, you know, 100 bucks a day. So many movies that I've been really moved by lately, you know, have been these smaller movies. Like I had Lily Gladstone in here. I didn't even want to talk about Killers of the Fireman.

Right. I mean, she did a couple of Kelly Reichard films where it's just like, holy fuck. Right. Even that movie, I didn't, I for some reason, I did not watch Past Lives, which was nominated for that. And that's a little movie. Right, tiny.

And it's fucking spectacular, you know, in terms of the weight of it. Right. I haven't seen it because I don't watch anything. But I think this is the natural pendulum swing from years of superhero movies. And that's not knocking superhero movies. I love Marvel movies. I love them.

All of them? Most of them. I make excuses for a lot of them. I love them because I grew up reading the comics and because the reason I don't watch anything is because I tend to get bothered by bad acting or bad lighting or I can see... It's... I'm an idiot. I'm terribly, but CGI movies, I have no idea how they do that shit.

So I find them fascinating. Yeah, some of them's better than others. I'll help you out here. I got, I had a, there was an old comic named Steve Kravitz and he used to call the TV the resentment box. Mm-hmm. Yeah. No, I watch it and I go, my God, what the fuck?

How does this pass? Is anything valuable and good? Have you gone in for Marvel movies? I did go in for Spider-Man and I went in and I had a meeting for the Fantastic Four. I'm gonna end up playing a superhero's orthodontist in something. You know what I mean? Yeah. I hope they keep me, because I am a huge fan,

but you know, so what? So what if I'm a fan? They have lots of fans, but I'd love to do something for them. Love to. And when you work with, like, because like you've worked with, you've worked with Downey a couple times, right?

Yeah. And you work in Clooney, you work with Clooney. Correct. He's hilarious, right? Love Clooney, told me the greatest Bill Murray story ever. Oh, really? Can't repeat it. Yeah, yeah.

Uh... Genuinely a nice guy. Clooney, here's the deal. All the A-listers, the big A-listers that have worked forever, the only reason they work forever, I don't care how talented they are, they're good guys. Yeah. They're just sweethearts.

You gotta be able, life's too short to work with an asshole. You gotta be able to disarm your own sense of guerrilla-ness on a set. You know, when I first worked with Downey, we worked in Plymouth, Massachusetts in a small courtroom. All the- The judge, right?

The judge. Duvall, too, right? The what? Wasn't Duvall? He's in, I didn't work with him. But the room was filled with 50 local Plymouth extras who aren't really extras. They're just people.

Yeah. And Downey shows up and takes a moment to shake each and every one of their hands. Cause for him, he doesn't want to feel like the gorilla. He just doesn't want to feel like that. He doesn't want that. Yeah.

And it makes it so that he can perform more freely and be the good guy he's striving to be. And that's true of like, I work with Brad Pitt and George Clooney and not gonna drop every name, but. Pitt's a nice guy. Sweetheart, you know, sweetheart. He hooked me up with a lot of weed. Gave me weed.

Anybody that gives me weed is. They're good for you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I have, I don't smoke weed anymore, but I, but when I did, I smoked a lot of weed. What happened? You just fell into yourself?

Okay. You want to hear something nuts? Sure. I have a rare disorder called cannabinoid hyper emesis syndrome, which is gaining. Hey, it might as well be. It's gaining, uh, attraction. Like in other words,? It might as well be. It's gaining attraction. Like, in other words, people are starting to report this, like, on the news.

Yeah. But essentially, I'm so deeply, I used to not be, but I've developed a wild allergy to weed that makes me, like, almost die every time I smoke it. Whoa. I've been to emergency rooms about 20 times as a result of... What are the symptoms of that? Nausea on a level I wouldn't wish on.

So emesis, hyper emesis, emesis is the medical term for nausea. Okay. So hyper nausea, if you can imagine what that is. Yep. I wouldn't, you want to die. You want to die. It is outrageous nausea. You lose a crazy amount of weight.

You cannot swallow a goddamn thing. Water. You get so dehydrated from throwing up and from not being able to replenish the fluids. Even if you're not continuing to smoke? So how it works is if you smoke every day and you smoke a lot, it happens, then you need to stop. And the next three to four weeks are torture. So you've stopped smoking, but it needs to like

somehow, and they don't know why they, there's no research, no one knows why this is happening. The greatest information on it is a Facebook group called cannabinoid hyperemesis syndrome. And it's all survivors or family members of survivors of this thing. People have died from this thing. There must be a lot of it because weed's so legal.

Well, and they fucked up weed, man. Every pothead, there's not a single pothead that doesn't agree that on some level, they kind of made it too strong. They kind of fucked it up. It's a little too strong now. And in some cases, a lot too strong. It used to be you have a friend who hadn't smoked in a couple of years or never smoked. You're like, no problem giving him a hit and then just babysitting him a little bit,

but he's going to be fine. Now, you know, people trip off the shit and bug the fuck out and you're like, oh shit, I wish I hadn't given you this hit. That's how it is now. And for some reason with the strength of it now, this cannabinoid hyperemesis syndrome is, is becoming way more prevalent. And I denied it. I thought it was bullshit when they first told me.

I was like, come on. I thought something was wrong with me gastrointestinally or whatever. I took every test in the book. I was clean as a whistle. And finally I listened and said, okay, I'll stop smoking weed. And with, after about a month, it went away. And then I tried smoking weed again, because I'm an addict, and got sick again,

stopped, went away. I tested the theory four different times, and ended up in the hospital like 20 times. And it's very real. You're done. Very fucked up and very real. You're done until the next time you test it? I don't miss it.

No, I don't miss it. I'm good, I'm good. I have aversion syndrome at this point. It'll kill me. Yeah, well that's good. It will kill me. I'll die of weed, which is a terrible way for anyone to die. Not a great story.

Much less David Krumholz. You know what I mean? It'd be a bad way for me to die. The deuce, you were great in The Deuce. Yes, you're correct. And it's kind of a great character, right? You must've been thrilled to have that character. Ah, dude, the writing is great. You know, you...

Simon, right? It's just rare that something's in your voice. You know, I, you know, part of the job of acting is trying to sort of, you're a square peg in a round hole, but you gotta find the happy medium. Yeah. But when it's in your voice, you can go to... You can move mountains.

But to make that guy, I love that the, the emp... You know, where you, you kind of have empathy for the pornographer. Oh, absolutely. And he's like, it's a great character based on, you know, a reality. You know, I rarely do backstory on characters. I don't believe in doing anything that actors do. Yeah.

But I did one on that. And I was just like, his brothers, his older brother's a doctor, his younger brother's a lawyer, they're super successful. He was not smart enough to be either of those things. And he became a fucking porn guy, because he's a horny little shit, who like, you know, is hung around the scene

watching people get fucked and maybe getting fucked himself. You know, maybe he's taken it in the ass a thousand times, maybe he's slightly gay, who knows? Who knows? Maybe he's slightly gay. Who knows? Right. Who knows? But he's a... He's deviant. I've always wanted to play. To me, sexual deviance is unexplored comedic territory. Like, we have an even happiness that Todd Salon movie

is the closest thing to exploring that from a comedic way. And there's some tragedy to it too, but that's what's great about it. Sexual deviancy, you know, the problem is you really can't do it, especially now. But sexual deviancy to me is hilarious. Woody Allen touched on it here and there. You mean in his personal life?

Well, in the movies and then in his personal life, yeah. Well, yeah, there's been a few, and it's always pretty interesting. Like that one movie with Michael Fassbender is disturbing. Which one is that? It's about the sex addict. Oh, okay. I forget what it's called, but Jesus Christ.

Yeah. Gnarly. Look, to me, you know, it's like Kubrick, right? To me, every one of Kubrick's films is about human beings trying to deny their animal instincts. In every single way, whether the instinct is survival, Eyes Wide Shut is about sex. It's about like, we're just sexual fucking creatures. We can't fucking do anything about it. Right.

And it'll, it's a ruination when it's not acceptable in the world. Yeah. And, uh, and to me, there's a, there's a comedy version of Eyes Wide Shut that's yet to be made, you know? Yeah. You can joke about it, because it's innocent. Sex is innocent. Our sexual urges are really genuinely innocent.

The problem is they veer into dangerous territories sometimes. Yeah, for different reasons. For different reasons. Yeah, it's like the Wilhelm Reich, the guy who created the Orgone Box, and was sort of this renegade lunatic protege of Freud's. You know, his idea, he was sort of at the center of this renegade lunatic protege of Freud's.

You know, his idea, he was sort of at the center of the psychology of the sexual revolution because he thought that if Freud was right and all this sexual perversion is because of repression, if everybody just freed that and just started fucking, we would all, everything would level off. And you know, he's right. Maybe. I mean, I mean, I mean.

I think what ultimately happened, it's capitalized upon and you just have porn on your phone. Correct. I'm in a movie about that that doesn't get credit for being that movie, but it's literally, that whole movie is about it. And have you ever seen Sausage Party? Oh, yeah.

With the food orgy again, it's literally all of them going, life is meaningless. We get eaten. Uh, there's no point in hating on each other. And, and let's just all fuck. Let's just, and the movie ends with a ridiculously disgusting graphic, uh, orgy of food. That's what that whole movie is about. And to me, it's really profound, way more profound

than it got credit for. Cause it's a movie about talking hot dogs. Yeah. That scene you have in the one where you're hanging off the, what was it, the end? Is it called the end? This is the end, yeah. This is the end.

Very funny. Yeah, that was a good one. I was so drunk. My whole weight. You can handle my whole weight. No, I was incredibly drunk in one of the scenes in that movie, and I regret it. I no longer drink. But I was doing this scene one of the scenes in that movie, and I regret it. I no longer drink, but I was doing this scene.

You're a sober guy. I am. They put me next to Rihanna, and I was wildly drunk. And she knew it, and I knew she knew it. And she was wonderful, and I was not, I wasn't mean to her, but I was just a drunk around her. Yeah. You're totally sober?

This is my way of apologizing to Rihanna. Yes, I'm totally sober. I mean, yes. Good. I mean, I am too. It's been a long time. So you're all right? Eh, yeah.

I'm okay. I'm very tired making this film, and I'm glad to do this. The new one. Who's directing? A young, wonderful, smart, brilliant guy named Caleb Alexander Smith. I hope people see it.

It's called Four Lock. You never know. When's it gonna be done? I fucking don't know. All right. Take care of yourself. You rock. This was lovely.

It was. This was good. There you go. David Krummholtz. He's exactly like you thought, right? Lousy Carter is in theaters tomorrow and also available on digital on-demand platforms. Hang out for a minute, folks. You can get anything you need with Uber Eats.

Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats. But meatballs and mozzarella balls? Yes, we can deliver that. Uber Eats. Get almost, almost anything. Order now. Product availability may vary by region.

See app for details. What are the possibilities for Canada in the year 2080? That's a complex question. There are quite a few forces driving change in the economy. We're asking people to imagine generations ahead as we look at the research, possibilities, and ambitions that could steer Canada forward. Part of how we get there is by making changes today. In this five-part series, we're looking at our future. This is Imagine 2080, a podcast made possible by McMaster University, produced by the Walrus

Lab. Subscribe now to Imagine 2080. Find it wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, Full Mehran listeners can hear what goes on between me and my producer Brendan on this week's bonus episode. We both were interviewed for a documentary about podcasting, so we jumped on the mics to compare notes. She asked me questions about, you know, did you feel like you were doing a radio show?

And I was like, not really. We knew we could do whatever we wanted, but we didn't know what that was or how it looked. And I brought up the point, which I don't think I'd brought up before really in thinking about it, which was that Morning Sedition, the show that we did on Air America, though structurally was a morning show, the effort that we put into segments and comedy was different. That we, you know, because we had writers on hand, because, you know, we had these options and we were workers, we did something pretty unique. So I think our sensibility around what we could do

with audio was informed more by the freedom we had and what we did on Morning's Edition, which was not fundamentally morning radio. Right, which was why it wasn't translating elsewhere. No one else wanted it because it didn't fit into the mold of what people were doing on radio shows. Right, so we had that sensibility, and I was sort of, I brought that up,

that like, no, we knew we weren't doing radio. We were actively kind of taking advantage of the freedom to feel it out. And that was an interesting point. And I talked about Morning's Edition, and I talked a little bit, but she was asking me broader questions, where she was like,

could you explain to people who Rush Limbaugh is? I'm like, no. I... I... I... I... That bonus episode is up now for Full Marin subscribers. You get bonus episodes twice a week in all WTF episodes. Add free when you're signed up. To subscribe to the Full Marin,

go to the link in the episode description or go to WTFpod.com and click on WTF+. And a reminder before we go, this podcast is hosted by A-Cast. Here's a little Bob Dylan, don't tell him though. ["WTF Plus"] So So So I'm gonna be a man I'm gonna be a man I'm gonna be a man I'm gonna be a man I'm gonna be a man

I'm gonna be a man I'm gonna be a man I'm gonna be a man I'm gonna be a man I'm gonna be a man I'm gonna be a man I'm gonna be a man I'm gonna be a man I'm gonna be a man, I'm gonna be a man So So Boomer lives, Monkey and LaFond, Cat Angels, Cat Angels everywhere.