WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1527 - Dina Hashem

Episode Date: April 4, 2024

Standup comedy transformed Dina Hashem’s life. So why is she at a point, right after releasing her acclaimed first special, where she cares less about standup than ever before? Dina talks with Marc about her isolated upbringing in New Jersey, her revelatory first time doing comedy, and why she has a hard time recognizing herself in her own special. Dina also talks about drumming, skateboarding, and writing for The Daily Show. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Rock City, you're the best fans in the league, bar none. Tickets are on sale now for fan appreciation night on Saturday, April 13th, when the Toronto Rock host the Rochester Nighthawks at First Ontario Centre in Hamilton at 7.30pm. You can also lock in your playoff pack right now to guarantee the same seats for every postseason game, and you'll only pay as we play. Come along for the ride and punch your ticket to Rock City at torontorock.com. Will you rise with the sun to help change mental health care forever?

Join the Sunrise Challenge to raise funds for CAMH, the Centre for Addiction and Mental Health, to support life-saving progress in mental health care. From May 27th to 31st, people across Canada will rise together and show those living with mental illness and addiction that they're not alone. Help CAMH build a future where no one is left behind. So who will you rise for? Register today at SunriseChallenge.ca That's SunriseChallenge.ca Lock the gates! Alright, let's do this.

How are you what the fuckers? What the fuck buddies? What the fucknicks? What the fucksters? What's happening? I'm Mark Maron. This is my podcast. I am broadcasting from a hotel room in Wisconsin, Madison, Wisconsin.

We almost didn't make it in. We almost didn't make it in. It's snowing. Fuck, I'd forgotten, you know, not so much, but you get into April and you kind of think like, well, it'll be nice in spring. Look at the lake, walk around the Capitol, but it's just windy and

f*****g wet and snowy. It looks like it's breaking a little bit. If you hear some wind, it's outside of my window, but you know, I guess I'm evolving around losing my mind because of things out of my control, because of the force majeure idea of what can and can't be done. And, and also weighing what is the worst that can really happen here? You know, what is, what's at stake really? But, uh, but looking back on my life, I wonder, I've got to do a Google search. I should have done it before I got on the podcast about the effect of panic and

anxiety over the longterm on the vessel we reside in that our skin bag. You know what I'm saying? I, I, I'm not sure I want to look at that because I'm looking back at my life and it's fucking crazy. The amount of cortisol I've jammed through my system. Anyway, maybe I'll talk more about that. I don't know It's sort of on my mind lately. But today on the show I talked to Dina Heshem She's a comic. She's a writer. She opened for me a few times. She was with me at the Beacon Theatre in New York I think she was with me out here once at Comedy on State. She recently released her first stand-up hour on Prime Video

It's called Dark Little Whispers. It was an interesting conversation. I didn't know what to expect, because she's kind of a... She's got a quiet style, so I didn't know how it would go in regular conversation, but it was pretty great. So that's coming down the shoot here in a few minutes, but let's discuss this because I, you know, I don't know, man. I think I've had it for a long time, this panic problem. But I don't know if it's panic, panic. I don't know the difference between panic and anxiety.

Is there a difference between panic and anxiety? I don't know. I just seem to be overwhelmed very quickly. And because there's some things going on in my, possibly in my career that are big things. And you know, when I, when I got the opportunity, my first reaction was like, no, no, no. You know, I've got to, you know, what am I going to do with the, with the cats and how am I going to, what, how am I going to live my life? What do I mean? Look, I've got, I've got a lot of things going on. I wake up, I'm like, I'm going to, you know, what am I going to do with the cats and how am I going to, what, how am I going to live my life? What? I mean, look, I've got,

I've got a lot of things going on. I wake up, I go to the gym, I have coffee, you know, and then I hang around, I do things around the house. And then, uh, you know, I interview people and then, you know, I have a pattern. I have a routine. Yeah. It's, it's hard enough for me to just, you know, get my brain together to get out there on the road So everything comes at this at this intensity any anything anything and and there's a lot of things I've just learned that I have to do and there's the the jobs that I do and I do them and Some of them have gotten easier, but there's still this sort of undercurrent of like oh fuck fuck

What is that? What do what? How much time do I have before it happens? Oh my god, just like crazy and that can go on for months It's an internal dialogue. I'm not really, you know sharing that with anybody I guess that's a shift from when I was younger and in relationships that I've had in my life because you know if you have someone in your life and you're a nut job in terms of anxiety and panic, and if someone's there, you're gonna bring them into it. Come on in, welcome to the ride. I hope it's not too crazy for you,

but I lose my mind sometimes for days, weeks, hours, and I just want you to be part of that. It's exhausting and it's really not your job, but, uh, hey, we're together. Let's, uh, let's ride it out. And then once you get through it, you being me and you're on the other side of it, it's like it's never happened. And then you're just sitting with an exhausted person who's saying like, I don't know if I can do this anymore.

And that's where you learn boundaries, you know, in a relationship. It's yeah, it's, uh, it's been a long haul and and mostly it's an internal dialogue unless it really overflows into my life and I think I've been like this so long and I'm trying to track it you know I talked to Brendan about it and you know some of it has to do with this, you know, vague future. I guess we all have a vague future. None of us really know what's going to happen to us in our lives, you know, in the world, but you can put parameters on it.

You can make goals and you can say I'm doing this then and this then and this then and this is how this is going to happen and I've set it up. But even if all that's in place for me, it's really like what am I doing tomorrow? Well, I'm flying to Texas How did I not know that it's been on your schedule for months? I'm like, oh my god, and I don't know what that is about me I don't think it's irresponsible It's just you know, I'm overwhelmed all the fucking time and I imagine this is a normal thing But the idea that if I had some real sense of what I wanted to do down the line Would maybe kind of buffer the anxiety of anything that's happened in the present

I guess as maybe a like well eventually I'm gonna do this or eventually I'll be here and it's relatively set in stone You know with exceptions around you know health or or something amazing happening or something horrible happening. And I think people with families and plans for retirement or even vacations, probably it tempers that overwhelming feeling of anxiety with everything. And look, I'm telling you right now, once I get to where I'm going or I'm doing what it is I've been dreading, I'm good. I'm fine. You know, I'm in it and I enjoy it.

There's something about being panicked all the time that keeps you in the present in a way, even though you're reacting to things that aren't happening. But I don't know. Uh, once I'm there, I'm good. And then all of that for not, I guess, or maybe it's just my preparation. I don't know. I, it's not intentional preparation, but it is how I've been doing it for a long time. But I do know now, as I get older, that it's a bit exhausting and I'm fucking tired of it.

But it's always there. I used to be terrified to fly. I mean fucking terrified. To the point where before a flight I would stay up all night or I'd get drunk as shit or I'd take drugs you know anything to get through the flight no matter what I did I wouldn't sleep on the plane because of the panic and the fear and I don't know how that went away I mean I think part of it was just that like look you know it was almost a spiritual lesson where you once you know once that plane takes a spiritual lesson where you, you once, you know, once that plane takes off or even once the door closes, unless you're a lunatic,

it's out of your control. There's nothing you can do. You can't fly the plane. There's nothing you can do. And I think I've, I've, I've kind of, uh, that's kind of wired into me now, but, but when I'm on a plane and we take off, you know, I'm, I'm definitely not comfortable and I'm definitely not comfortable. And I'm thinking about like, what are the thoughts that come in? Oh, hitting another plane is one. The moment of realizing you're going down is another.

The sort of, you know, processing and accepting that it's a pretty unlucky way to die, but I guess this is the way it is. And just picturing the terror, picturing terror on all this happens with everything to one degree or another. What is the horrible thing that's going to happen and live in it? And I don't know what that's about. I guess it's, it's, it's more defined than, Hey man, everything's pretty good.

And I'm, I'm having a nice flight or I'm having a nice life. You know, that seems more challenging because I don't have an immediate way to process that as something I think about or live in. But just sort of like, we're all gonna fucking die is, well, that's pretty straight up. It's conclusive, it's concrete. We're all gonna fucking die in my head.

Imagine me through all those years of doing, starting to do comedy. Just the anxiety and the terror of going on stage, just to do five minutes when I was starting out, would go on for weeks. All that fucking cortisol and insanity, you know, just like fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, and I bring it in for five minutes. So I guess I must be an addict of, I'm addicted to panic and whatever happens in my brain

chemically from that panic. Maybe that's it. I don't know. But the memory that I sort of locked into when I was thinking about this stuff, sitting here in my hotel room in Wisconsin, I just went to the gym down there, is that when my parents, when I was a kid, I would say maybe nine or ten. Let's go with nine or ten. And I remember there was one time that my parents went on a trip to Hawaii,

and the woman that used to clean the house, this old woman, Carmen, she was house-sitting. She was babysitting my brother and I. And my parents left emergency numbers, you know, in Hawaii, or where, one time, yeah. I remember that. Because as soon as they left, I couldn't get out of my head the idea

that their plane crashed in the ocean. And it was just, it was debilitating, just thinking about them crashing into the ocean, the plane at the bottom of the ocean, and I could not get it out of my head. And the anxiety and the panic and the fear, the crying, the insanity that went on for days, even after the plane landed, because they had to come back to the point where I got sick.

I got, I vomited. I couldn't go to school. I was, you know, paralyzed with, with panic, had to call the emergency number and make sure they were okay. It was, it was crazy that, and at 10, I don't know if that's unusual or whether or not I should have had more separation from them, but it was also just about knowing they were around. It wasn't like they were that attentive, you know, my dad was hardly ever home and my mom was, you know, in her own world, you know, in a way, but they were around and I realized that's exactly the same thing.

Now it's like, it's my cats, it's my house, it's my car, it's my dumb, you know, routine, it's my cooking. It's, it's around, they're around and there's a consistency to it. And once I shift out of that, you know, until I ground myself in whatever I'm doing, I'm fucking nuts. And again I stifle it. I I keep it to myself and I manage it. I self parent around that stuff and and realize that you know, I I have the You know years and years of experience and doing this stuff. There's plenty of precedent set for me surviving But but the anxiety is real and some of it is gotten a little worse lately tonight

I'm in Milwaukee, Wisconsin at the Turner Hall Ballroom tomorrow I'm in Chicago at the Vic Theatre Minneapolis at the Pantages Theatre this Saturday April 6th Austin Texas at the Paramount Theatre on Thursday April 18th this part of the Moon Tower Comedy Festival of Montclair New Jersey on Thursday May 2nd at the Wellmont Center, Glenside, Pennsylvania in the Philadelphia area on Friday, May 3rd at the Keswick Theater. And someone told me it's not Keswick. Is that right? One person said it's Keswick because it's British and that still doesn't make sense. Washington, D.C. on Saturday, May 4th at the Warner Theater.

Munhall, Pennsylvania outside Pittsburgh on May 9th at the Carnegie Library Music Hall. Cleveland, Cleveland, Ohio on May 10th at the Playhouse Square. Detroit, Michigan on May 11th at the Royal Oak Music Theater. Go to WTFpod.com slash tour for all of my dates and links to tickets. Folks, listen, I'm not great at decisions, clearly. Sometimes there are too many choices and I get overwhelmed other times I have a hard time picking between two things but every now and then there's a decision That's a no-brainer and I can tell you from experience

It was a no-brainer to use stamps.com when we started using it 11 years ago crazy 11 years ago now more than a decade later Stamps.com is better than ever. The Stamps.com mobile app is like having a post office in your pocket wherever you are. You can take care of things on the go, like mailing checks, sending invoices, legal documents, and more. Easily schedule package pickups through your Stamps.com dashboard. And when you need to take care of shipping, all you need is a computer and printer. Stamps.com even sends you a free scale.

Make the same no brainer decision that over 1 million other businesses have with Stamps.com. Sign up with the promo code WTF for a special offer that includes a four week trial plus free postage and a free digital scale. No long-term commitments or contracts. Just go to Stamps.com, click on the microphone at the top of the page and enter code WTF. So I flew out of Chicago to come here to Madison, Wisconsin. Now I don't know why. I was going to rent a car here in Madison and drive to the other gigs with my

opener Ali Makovsky. And I was, some reason, we were booked to fly from Chicago to Madison once we landed in Chicago. Now, sometimes, most of the time, technology is kind of fucking amazing when I really think about it. Because I don't need to think about it that much. Look, I'm on a microphone in a fucking hotel room, and you're going to hear this tomorrow.

I mean, it's fucking nuts. But just relative to, to panic and to the past and to be being old enough to remember life without certain things. Like I was on the plane. I was online on the plane. I got a text from American airlines that the flight from Chicago to Madison have been canceled because of weather and then from there we were able to see if there was another flight, there was only a full flight and then from there, and this is in the air,

I was like I'll just rent a fucking car in Chicago, I don't even know why we're flying to Madison anyways. How bad could the weather be? Let's just get a small SUV and fucking do it. You know, and we more landing it like seven It's not gonna be like the middle of the night so I was able to secure a car at Hertz on the plane and And I know this just seems like practical stuff or if you're you know

Working on the road, but back in the day. Holy fuck man. I mean think about it I would have we would have landed in Chicago We would have gone to the board it would have said that flight was cancelled We would have been like fuck what the fuck are we gonna do and then we would have scrambled to see at You know at the American desk when's the next flight probably not till tomorrow Oh, it looks like there's a United flight We would have you know fucking run over to the United terminal to see if we could get on that flight And then it was sold out we found that out online and so we would have been like well fuck I guess we got to get a hotel or just try to rent a car but this whole process

would have taken hours and the stress of it if you're someone like me would have been a fucking nightmare. There would have been running in the airport. Running in the airport is not someplace that I want to be but you know we just fucking worked it out and we got the car. We ended up eating. It's so weird. There's actually a restaurant at the Chicago, at O'Hare, in the American terminal that I look forward to eating at.

Is that bizarre? Ali was texting me on the plane, can we drive into Chicago and get some dinner? And I'm like, that's 45 minutes the other direction from the airport. And I was like, but you know what? There's a great restaurant at O'Hare. You know, it's that, what's that guy's name?

Is it Rick Bayless? Is that, he's got a Mexican sandwich shop called Torta over in Terminal, I don't know what Terminal it was, but it was American. It was literally right outside the gate that we walked out of. So because we were able to set everything up on the plane and get our fucking ducks in a row with the car,

I told Hertz we'd pick it up at seven. And it was like we actually had a leisurely dinner and it was very good. These sandwiches, these sandwiches, I might've eaten a little cheese. I think I picked most of it off. I fucked up, but I got the vegetarian, don't tell anybody. It's not the same.

It's not drugs. It's not drugs. Because Ali said, is this a cheese lapse? I'm like, no, it's not, I'll be all right, I'll live. It's not like I'm gonna eat a piece of cheese by accident or have something with some egg in it, and then the next day just be sitting in my hotel room with a full barbecue pork ass, just sitting there

with an entire rotisserie chicken, you know, in my underwear covered in grease, just like eating it. I'm like, I don't know what happened, man. I have one piece of cheese and this is where I'm at. This is where I'm at. I don't think I can get back, man. Where's the ham? I don't think that's going to be what happens. But anyways, the point is, is that we actually had dinner on purpose at an airport and we didn't even have to. We could, you know, usually you're at airport like let's get going, let's get out, let's get on the next plane. It's a, it's a transitional space. But I'm like, no, this is a good sandwich and we got to drive for a couple hours. Let's, let's sit down and eat

at O'Hare. And here I am. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp, which I need actually, it seems. Have you ever heard of a social battery? Basically, how charged are you when it comes to having social interaction? Some people have an easily rechargeable social battery. For lots of us, we can feel drained or empty a lot, especially when social gatherings pick up. How do you recharge? How do you get the most of your social battery's capacity? Therapy can give you the self-awareness to build a social life that doesn't drain your battery. If you're thinking of starting therapy give BetterHelp a try. It's entirely online and it's designed to be convenient, flexible, and suited to your schedule. Just fill out a brief questionnaire to get

matched with a licensed therapist and switch therapists anytime for no additional charge. I know this may shock you, but I'm not the most comfortable in large social settings, but that doesn't mean I can't go to a party or have a conversation with someone as long as I'm feeling okay in my head. Find your social sweet spot with BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp.com slash WTF today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash WTF.

All right? Okay. So look, you guys. Dina Heshem, very funny, very smart, comedian, writer. I didn't know what to expect and I'd hung out with her before because she opened for me but this was a great conversation. It was very charming, very funny, very smart. I enjoyed it. And you can watch her standup special dark little whispers on prime video. Here we go.

Rock city. You're the best fans in the league bar. None tickets are on sale now for fan appreciation night on Saturday, April 13th, when the Toronto rock hosts the Rochester Nighthawks at First Ontario Centre in Hamilton at 7.30pm. You can also lock in your playoff pack right now to guarantee the same seats for every postseason game and you'll only pay as we play. Come along for the ride and punch your ticket to Rock City at torontorock.com.

Will you rise with the sun to help change mental health care forever? Join the Sunrise Challenge to raise funds for CAMAGE, the Centre for Addiction and at torontorock.com. that they're not alone. Help CAMH build a future where no one is left behind. So, who will you rise for? Register today at sunrisechallenge.ca. That's sunrisechallenge.ca. ["Sundown Riders"] What's happening? Do you come out here often? No, almost never. How's it feel for you? What's happening? Do you come out here often?

No, almost never. How's it feel for you? Well, actually, I really love it because of one reason in particular. The English Muffin place? No, it's even better than that. It's the Round One arcade at Burbank Mall. Come on. Listen, I could talk about it for...

Wait, the Round One arcade? It's's an old timey arcade with the. No, it's like an update. It's like, okay, so round one is a chain of arcades around the country. Yes. There's not enough. There's only like, I don't know, maybe 30 locations across countries. There's not one in New York, which is very important, which is why I'm excited to be here.

And what's special about it is it has this game called Gita Dora, which is a drumming rhythm game and it's like Guitar Hero but it's for the drums and it has a full Yamaha electronic drum kit. So if you play this game for a thousand hours like I have, it teaches you how to play the drums. Is that where you learn to play drums? Yeah. Stop it.

I swear. On that game. Yes. And anyone can learn if you just go to the Burbank Mall and you spend lots and lots of money. Well, how do you stand in technique against other drummers in general, in conversation perhaps? Well, of course my technique is not good, but I actually just took my first real drum lesson

and he was like, just play around, let me watch you and I'll tell you what you're doing wrong. So I played for a little bit and he's like, yeah, you know what you're doing. And so we just, I stopped the lessons because he's like, if you wanna get better, you just need to practice on your own. Obviously I'm not like amazing.

No, I know, but I watch at the end of the special, you just kind of kick out the drums. I didn't know anything about that. Yeah. And it's like what you do. The most fun part about doing the special was recording that song. I could tell.

Really? Yeah. Yeah. I think it's obvious. Well, no, it's just a funny kind of juxtaposition. We worked together, when was that? At the Beacon? The Beacon.

Was that at the Beacon and then in Madison? In Madison, exactly, yeah. I can't remember. Were you in Madison or did you come out to do that? No, I came. And we hung out. That was fun, but like, and the beacon was fun. But like, I'm watching you on the special

and you know, I know your style, but then like you're playing drums at the end and I'm like, oh, she's holding in a lot. Yeah. Where's all that? I know, and I'm like, well, the special also, it hurts because I watch myself and I'm like, well, the special also, it hurts because I watch myself and I'm like, that's not even me.

I really do, I learned how to have fun on stage recently, very recently. After the special? Yeah. Very, very recently. And it's not there, it's not in the special because I was nervous, of course, it was my first special.

I was nervous, I had two shows, and so I watch it and I'm like, that's not even what I do on stage anymore. So it shifted in since when? When did you record that special? I mean, no, my energy shifted, I would say, like a few years ago. So it was, it should have been captured in the special,

but I was nervous, I was nervous. I'm not saying like I'm now an act out crazy comedian, it's just that I care so much less about standup than I used to. And so, and I- So it's just that I care so much less about standup than I used to. And so, and I- So it's the zero fucks thing. Yeah, there's still some fucks. I'm trying to get to zero, but I've like,

the fuck level has dropped significantly. Cause like, you know, you're great and the jokes are great. And I remember working with you, but, and I know you were nervous, but it's interesting. Cause I was, I actually talked to my producer. I'm like, I don't know if this is totally a choice, the way that she's doing her performance. And it kind of wasn't.

You're right. You're right. It's not. But it's a good special. I don't want to diminish a special. But I remember working with you. And just because I'm a comic, I'm sensitive to the nervousness part.

But you're also like, you're not like, you never like, hey, how's everybody doing? You know what I mean? But you are on drums. You're definitely a, hey, how's everybody doing drummer. I hope so. And then you kind of rock hard. Yeah, like I. All metal all the time?

Well, I have, you know, you know, I'm actually so obsessed with drums that I'm in a comedy band now and I never thought I would delve into musical comedy. I know, no, I know, but it's- Is it with other comedians? Yes, very funny comedians. Very, very funny.

So these are, not unlike many comedians, the musician dreamers. I would say. Yeah, who, like, because I play, obviously, but I was never gonna pursue that. Music? Yeah. I never did, and it took me years to play in public.

I had a band rehearsal yesterday, but we're not like always practicing, but we do Largo gigs where we'll do like six or seven covers. Yeah. And just as a band, but it took me 50 some odd years to find the courage to do that. And I'm not a bad player.

So is it cause you just have no interest or? No, it's just like, I used to do a joke about how, like I play guitar, but I never set out to play professionally, so my guitar is not like a vessel of broken dreams. Like I wanted it to keep it, you know, I didn't want the pressure, because I know myself. It's like, even with a band,

there's so many other things to worry about. You don't wanna fuck up the song, you don't wanna, whatever. And I don't know, I guess I used to you don't want to, the word, whatever. Yeah. And I don't know, I guess I used to be nervous like that when I was doing standup originally, but I didn't want to ruin guitar. That's so smart to keep something you enjoy as a non-professional activity. Yeah. I mean, it's like one of my few things, right? And I've gone through periods where

I'm like, I'm sure you have with the drums, right? I want to get better. I want to learn some new things. Right. And I do it. Right. You know, and I'm kind of happy that I did it. But anytime I see anybody else play guitar, like 12 year olds on fucking Instagram, I'm like, hmm. I'm not in the game.

I know, I know. It's the same with, I picked up skateboarding recently. And I'm like, how old are you? Oh God, 34. Come on. I identify as a teenage boy though. That's all my hobbies. But I mean, but that just becomes a thing about like, if you're nervous on a skateboard,

you're gonna fucking hurt yourself. I know, and that's why I reached the wall where I'm like, if I'm gonna really try to get good at this, I have to risk injury and I don't think I did smart. Were you at the edge of a pool? Yeah. I actually can drop in, not on extreme heights, but I can drop in, not on extreme heights,

but I can drop in. Really? It's actually not the scariest part of skateboarding. Do you wear a helmet? No. Pads, knee pads? I started wearing pads after I took a really brutal fall on my knee and I was-

Boy, what's it gonna take to wear a helmet? I fell on my head once already, actually. Yeah, how was that for you? It was alright, I handled it. You're not wearing a helmet because you don't think it's cool. Cause you're, what are you, you were standing there beside the pool with nine teenage boys. Oh my God, during the pandemic,

I was showing up to my high school, my high school, and I was in the tennis courts trying to ollie with literally a 13 year old boy. I'm like, oh, I look like a pedophile. People must be like this, there's no way this woman is trying to actually learn how to skate. Yeah, I bought a board oh, I look like a pedophile. People must be like this. There's no way this woman is trying to actually learn how to skate. Yeah, I bought a board once, like down,

when I lived in the Lower East Side, there was this board shop when they were doing those big boards and they were kind of around. And I just decided that's maybe what my persona should be. So I went and bought a board and I went out to the, where they were skating around the, I guess it was, it used to be a basketball court or something, there was a flat.

And there were all these other guys kind of doing the things and I just sat there on my board and they were looking at me and I'm like, yeah, I can't do it. Yeah. I got a good board. Is he just stopped? I didn't really even start. I bought the board and that was the end of the fantasy.

Well, that's okay. You do a lot of cool things. I know, some things don't stick. What are you gonna do? Well, it's just the hardest thing a lot of cool things. I know some things don't stick. What are you gonna do? It's well, it's just the hardest thing to really really get good at. So everyone's a comic. How are you guys? How are you doing? How are you playing in terms of the band? Oh, we haven't had any. This is very recent.

So you're just kind of fucking around? No, like well, it's so it's Kyle Dunnigan is like it's his band. I should say that. I know him. He's in New York again? Yeah, he moved. He did? Yeah. During the fanademic? His band, I should say that. I know him. He's in New York again? Yeah, he moved. He did? Yeah. During the pandemic?

No, actually I don't know, maybe like a year ago. I think it was pretty recent. Wow, no kidding. I miss seeing him around, he's a funny guy. He's the best. What does he play? Everything, he plays keyboard, he plays guitar, he sings, he's so good at writing music.

Yeah, he's a talented fella. So talented. Yeah, so it's him and who else? Me, David Angelo, another very funny comedian. Caroline Banowitz. Yeah. And Tony, which is not a comedian, just one of Kyle's friends, who's a really good artist. Just Tony.

Tony's on the guitar. Yeah, Tony on the strings. Yeah, that's good. I mean, I don't play with comics anymore. I didn't do it that much. I play with real musicians. And it's kind of interesting, because I'm freaking out, and to them do it that much. I play with real musicians. And it's kind of interesting because I'm freaking out

and to them it's just sort of like no problem. Right. And it's inspiring. Like they don't care, they've been doing it their whole life. So it's second nature for them. It's not whether they're, they're all good. But when I'm out of practice, I'm like, oh my God, pressure's on, here we go.

And these guys are just loose. Do you feel the pressure because you want them to flake? I don't think I'm, like, even though I've gone out and done it and sang and stuff, and I know I'm okay, I still get very insecure about it, that's all. Oh, in front of an audience, you mean? In front of an audience and sometimes in front of these guys because I got this guitar player now

that never stops playing. And he's just like, he's all over the frets, and I'm like, all right. Did you teach yourself? Not really, I took some lessons in I guess I was in high school. Like I learned the basics that have gotten me this far. And then Jimmy Vovino,

the guy from the old Conan show, the band leader, his old band leader became sort of a friend and he would show me licks every time I do Conan. And then eventually I kept getting better and I eventually played with him. He was in my band briefly. That's amazing. his old band leader became sort of a friend and he would show me licks every time I do Conan. And then eventually I kept getting better and I eventually played with him. He was in my band briefly. That's amazing.

That was a big deal. That's so cool. But I still don't believe I'm good enough. Right. I don't know, maybe that's with everything. No, I had the same moment where I like, so I played the drums with Yola Tango and it was just like the coolest thing

that's ever happened. Why? Well, that's a good pace. You know, you don't have to show off too much with YOLO Tango. You know what I mean? They're not gonna be, you know, there's no metal requirements.

Yeah, yeah, you know, it was, you know, it was the perfect starting place for someone who learned an arcade game. That's a good breaking in point to play with them. But it was a thing of like, wow, could I possibly be good enough to actually be a drummer in a band? Yeah. But it's like, probably, I mean it would take.

You definitely could. You know who used to be a drummer? Who? Todd Berry. Oh, I know. Yeah, Todd played with them too, same shows. Oh really? He did too, how'd he do?

Oh, I wasn't there, I saw some video, but I think he's, yeah, I don't know. I saw some video, but I think he's... Yeah, I don't know if I'm better than Todd. I have to find that out. I think you're probably better. I mean, I remember playing with Todd at some point in my life. You know, the weird thing is, is like, you've got to sort of stay with it. You know, any of it. To kind of stay in the groove of it. Same with stand-up. Like, I'm crazy like that.

From New York, the training. Like, I have to get on stage at least twice a week. If I go two weeks without standup, I'm like, I don't know how to do it. Same, same. I forgot how to do it. But you still feel that way, really? I do, it's 60, it's fucking stupid. What's the longest you've taken off in recent years?

The pandemic. The entire pandemic, and you know what? Felt great. Really? You loved it? Loved it. I was like, maybe I'm all better. Maybe I...

But like, and I thought like, you know, I could live without it, but as soon as people started doing it, I'm like, fuck, here we go again. That's interesting that you thought for a moment you could be done though. I did. I think that about everything,

but I think it's just someplace my brain goes so I don't have anxiety. Okay. Like I think there's a part of my brain that's sort of like, I'm just gonna stop and go. But it always involves traveling and disappearing entirely. It's not just sort of like, I'm gonna stop and sit in this house. It's like, I'm gonna stop, I'm gonna go to New Mexico,

I'm not gonna have a phone, like that kind of shit. It's a little bit much, but it makes me feel relaxed. Yeah, I mean, the pandemic was also part of, I think it was the inciting incident for me giving less fucks about standups. It really helped a lot. Did you do any of that ridiculous stuff? Zoom shows?

I did a couple of Zoom shows. Couldn't do any of it. The outdoor shows, none of it. Really? I didn't do any of it. Just outdoor shows, none of it. Really? I didn't do any of it. Just because you're like, this is bullshit? Well, they were doing these gigs where like, you know, in drive-in theaters or weird fucking places,

I'm like, I had to do those when I was coming up and they were awful. Just because the situation calls for it doesn't mean it's not gonna suck. So I'd rather live without it. It did sort of feel like that in a way. It felt like starting again with these really shitty shows. But I had fun actually.

Maybe not, there was like one Instagram live show. I was like, I'll never do that again. Cause you really can't hear anyone laugh. And it's absurd. But I was doing like shows, outdoor shows in Connecticut with Sam Rell. And like, there was like literally a truck going by every other joke.

It was just kind of like funny. I guess so. I guess I just didn't, I don't know, I didn't. I was already in the pandemic. I had enough problems the way it was. I didn't need to go on stage and feel shitty about comedy, because I know I would. Even if it was a compromise situation,

I'd still judge myself as if it were normal. All right, so what changed though? What changed in your performance that made you, why are you a new person now? Not a lot. I mean, people maybe not even notice the difference. Some people have said they've noticed, but like, I used to just really be like,

I have to, I treated standup like school, and I was always a great student. I was like, I have to be really good at this, I have to do it properly, I have to write great jokes. And then I was like, oh, I'm a clown. It just kind of hit me like, oh, this is stupid. What I do is stupid. Like I should treat it as such.

And so it allowed me to just take it less seriously and that let me, losing respect for stand up I think helped me be better at it. That's interesting. I mean, because I don't know, I guess you're, like you come from a pretty strict joke writing tradition. Yeah. Oh God, it sounds so pretentious. Yeah.

What? No, I mean, we make choices. I mean, like how long you been doing it? Since I started 2010, 2011. Oh, well that's not bad. It's a long time. Let's go back, because I mean you talk in the special about, like, because I don't get to talk to a ton of Muslims. And I guess we've been a little Jew heavy lately, so we gotta...

I'm happy to help. And it's not even because comedy is Jewish anymore, it used to be, but it's really not. It's gotten pretty inclusive and everyone sort of finds their way. But I think in the 70s, it was just like, oh, another Jew. Right, right.

But not anymore. Right, now it's everyone else, like 16 year olds mostly. I can't even deal with that. I don't even, it's not even on my radar. I don't, I'm missing everything, but I'm not sure I'm missing anything. You don't even, it's not even on my radar. I don't, I am missing everything, but I'm not sure I'm missing anything. You don't look at TikTok or Instagram or?

Not for comedy, like I see the crowd work trend, you know, but I don't know who the influencer is, or I don't know who the TikTok comedians are by name. I don't know what they're doing out there. I know they can sell tickets. I, you know, I've never really watched, you know, Matt Rife do anything. I've watched maybe three minutes of Andrew Schultz

and I know they now have their own armies apparently. That's another way to say it. I'm more concerned about the army element. I'm a little concerned about the tribalization of the medium. Yeah, that's true. It's just all these people running around saying, like, I don't wanna get canceled.

And it's like, we don't even know who you are. Right. So clearly that's your hook. Maybe write some jokes. So totally. Tell it, preach. Drag them, Mark. I drag them.

It's not even subtle. And when I do, like, the great thing about my audience and who I go out to is that I'm insulated enough that not one of those fuckers will hear it unless I put it on TikTok. And then I get into some problems. Had some problems on TikTok. Minor, minor problems.

I don't like getting involved with it, but I have an inability to compartmentalize. Right. I mean, I've leaned into comedy drama just once recently, and I usually never do. I never talk publicly, talk, hm? Not the tweet that got you fucked up? Oh, it's related to that. Oh.

So, I mean, you know, obviously, I don't care about Matt Reif discourse, I don't care about him, it doesn't bother me, just because, like I said, I've lost respect for this art form, so I don't care who succeeds at it. Oh, that's good, because he's not really doing it. Right, well, yes, that is well, that's good, because he's not really doing it. Right, well, yes, that as well. That as well, for sure.

He's doing something. The fucked up thing about crowd work is like, for me, crowd work was a skill you should have. Yeah. Not something you should do. It's like breaking case of emergency. That's right. You know, like you want to be able to handle yourself

in any situation up there. You know, not, and there's been plenty of good crowd work comedians, but it's not, you know, the craft. For sure. I mean, honestly, I have changed my tune a little bit about crowd work in a shocking way where, I mean, I myself don't enjoy it,

I don't go out to watch it, but I think stand up in our culture, live performance has given people a sense of community that is largely missing in their lives. So if comedy is somewhere they can go and talk to another human being and hear other people's thoughts, then maybe that's a good thing.

No, I will do it, because you want to have that relationship with your audience to where it's conversational. But the idea of going from person to person and being like, so what's up? For sure, yeah. You know, it's just, if you're quick, it's just cheating.

Yeah. In a way. You know what I mean? Like, you can just do it. Well, the bar is so much lower for the audience to be impressed by you. Because, like, I mean, you could say almost nothing and they'll laugh with crowd work.

Yeah. They just love it. And sometimes it's like a good bit of crowd work. It's, you don't, that's the other reason you gotta be careful if you have an act. Because if you do a little crowd work and it kills hard, you can't, they know that you're just doing a script. I made that mistake.

I went into crowd work because like I did the specials, like I don't wanna do a lot of stuff. So I'm gonna do a lot of crowd work. But then there was like a big moment of laughs from crowd work and then it went back into material and they're like, fuck you. we don't give a shit about your Muslim trauma, go back to talking to us. That probably wasn't the exact tone, but there's no reason not to project that onto your eyes.

Someone literally said that. No, they did not. No, they didn't. Okay, well, let's go back and then we'll kind of move through the controversy. So like, I don't, I'm trying to think who I talked to specifically about a Muslim childhood. I'm finding it all very, like there's like, there's things as an old white guy that I learn, particularly from, you know, TV shows of like Reservation Dogs and Rami's show, the engagement with a culture, you know, from a second generation point of

view or just from the point of view of the culture, like, there's no way for me to know things by reading about it or seeing a documentary or whatever. It's like also Past Lives was another one. Did you watch Past Lives, the movie? I still need to see that. It's still all an education to me. And even though Muslim is not that different than Jew in a way. Mm-hmm, very similar. Yeah, I mean, your name, your last name could be Jewish. It is, sort of. It means the name of God in Hebrew.

Right, yeah, Hashem, yeah. Yeah, so what was it in your childhood that ruined it? So just to be clear, the question is, how did Islam ruin my life? Yeah. OK. So clearly, you didn't watch the special. Clearly, you didn't watch the special. I did watch.

I watched all of it. But I want to get beyond the jokes. This is called, this is called, Dina Hisham, Beyond the Jokes. Behind the jokes with Dina Hisham. OK. Behind the jokes with Dina Ashem. Okay. Yeah. You grew up in Jersey. I did.

And that's where you got the arcade problem, isn't it? No, actually. Well, yeah, so DDR, are you familiar with DDR? Also known as Dance Dance Revolution. Sure. I did grow up addicted to that because it was not, it was- So you can dance too? Yeah, I can do the DDR dance.

That's how I dance in real life, for sure. Yeah. Like you just hopped off the machine. Right. It is the only way I know how to dance. I can't dance. But it was in this roller rink. Rollerblading was like a huge part of my life.

Every weekend I'd go to the roller rink and they had this DDR machine. Music, mirror ball. Mirror ball? A mirror ball. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, is that, is that a disco ball? I would call it a disco ball. Okay, yeah A mirror ball. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, is that, is that a disco ball? I would call it a disco ball.

Okay, yeah, same thing. Yeah. So that's where, yeah, I grew up in Tindal, Jersey. Yeah. Which part of Jersey? It's called Islan. Not where Rami grew up, not, was there a big Muslim population?

I forget what town he grew up in. A lot of Muslims in Jersey, right? Yes, definitely. Well, the town I grew up in, Islan, it's also known as Little India. It's like the largest population of Indian immigrants, I think, in the country. And obviously, yes, there's a Muslim population within that.

I forget where Rami grew up, but yeah. Good food, right? Indian food, great food. Oh, it's the best. Great food. See, that's where, again, that's where my knowledge of India drops off. If I don't talk to an Indian comedian,

which I have a couple, and learn more things, but it was really about food for most of my life. Just sort of like, man, you got that great bread. That's most people's only connection. I know, but I think that's wrong. I think you should know more. So now teach me. Okay, so beyond the falafel and the hummus,

there's a lot of trauma. So, I mean. Real trauma. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. I get mad now when people trivialize this new approach to psychotherapy, trauma-based approach, because I think it's very smart.

And I've heard a comic recently kind of poo poo it, and I'm like, go fuck yourself. Wait, I don't even know what it is. It's a form of- Well, just the idea of attaching a certain amount of meaning. It's just really thinking about PTSD, I think, in a broad way.

That we're going to be wired a certain way, and it's going to affect us far beyond our childhood because of a repetition of patterns or something that, you know, really fucked with us. And I think to focus on that, like with EMDR or trauma processing is like, it's smart. For people with actual trauma, of course. Which is most people. I mean, some worse than others. I'm doing a bit about that right now. How you sort of like decide for yourself which traumas really defined you or fucked you up.

And it might be surprising. You can't go in the whole bit, I wanna ruin it. All right, so tell me the trauma. God, where do I start? I don't know. But were you religious? Was there a lot of people in the family? Tooth questions.

No, very small family, very isolatingly small. My mom and dad divorced when I was six. He moved back, he moved to Kuwait, so he lived there my whole life. Well, was it a planned marriage? Planned marriage? Like a- They were married for a while

because they had my brother already, he's five years older than me. But like, did they want to marry each other? Where'd they get married? Yes, you know, you're gonna find out how little I know about my family because I hated them for so long. That's all right, Oh, all of them?

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I believe they must have been married in Egypt. My dad was Egyptian. Because I know there's a thing where, like if they come to America and they're married and there's an expectation about honoring the religion or even an arranged marriage, sometimes that craps out.

Yeah, I'm sure it wasn't arranged. They could be wrong. They were not married in America for sure. So he splits. He splits. How old are you? Six. That's a lot right there.

Really? Is that a common thing? Well, I mean, it's sort of abandonment. I'd love a diagnosis at the end of this. Yeah, okay, I could. Fortunately, I have a doctor who's also listening in. That would be awesome. That's a great, wouldn't that be a great podcast?

The doctor sits in at the end, they say what you have. They gotta have one. Yeah, but the person doesn't know it, but you wouldn't be able to keep that hidden. I could just pretend like I'm that good. Or he's texting me as he's listening. I wouldn't even be mad, but like that's great. I've never gone to therapy, so it would.

You've never gone to therapy? I went to one session my entire life, one hour. And were you traumatized by that? Yeah, I cried the whole time. That's what it is. But I was like, if that's what it is, then I don't. We're supposed to stop crying at some point. Okay, I didn't stop the whole time, I wanna say.

No, it takes a few weeks, maybe months. Could be years. Oh, really? But yeah, the idea is to stop crying and have self-acceptance and boundaries and stuff. Well, I believe I'm sort of my own therapist. Good for you. Thank you. Good for you, yeah. It's all upstairs.

All right, so what happened? So you got a brother? Yeah. And just the two of you? Yes, and my mother and my stepdad, who she married. So she married my stepdad, it was a green card marriage essentially, so that he could have a green card

and so that she could keep custody of my brother and I because I believe my dad wanted to take us to the Middle East with him. And my mom, she had like no money, I mean he made the money. And from what I understand, I don't know, remember the details, but like he fucked her over in some way where they had a house, but then because-

Your real dad. Yeah, because she wanted a divorce. He was like, he like, whatever, got the house. I don't know the word, real estate word for it, but they lost money on it. And so she had nothing and she didn't even have money for like a lawyer. So like, she's like, the court is not gonna give her

the kids if she just can't prove she has like an apartment or like a way of supporting us. So she she has an apartment or a way of supporting us. So she married my stepdad as a way of keeping us. And I'm very thankful for that. So I grew up with her and my stepdad. Is he a Muslim guy? Yeah, another Egyptian man. Oh, okay, yeah.

Who, I mean, people don't believe me when I say this, but I only realized it recently. We had a fight when I was, shortly after we started living together, when I was six or seven, we had a fight, and we never spoke again. I mean, I literally spent 15 years of my life living with a man I never spoke to. That's problematic.

Is that weird? That's not normal, right? In the house. Yeah, that's not normal. So you had to maintain this vigilance. Like you had to catch yourself sometimes? No, it was not even like a, there was neither of us tried to talk to each other.

Wow. Because we had, so the fight was- At dinner? We didn't sit down and eat dinner together. What was the fight? So I didn't have my own room in this first apartment. We had, my brother got the room to himself and my parents had their room. So I got like a section own room in this first apartment. We had, my brother got the room to himself and my parents had their own.

So I got like a sectioned off part of the living room that was separated with like these dividers. So one day I came home from school and I found my stepdad snooping around my area and I'm very protective of it, cause that's all I have. And I just yelled at him. I was like, what are you doing?

Get out of my area. And he was like, you can't talk to me like that. And he stormed off. I mean, I was broke again. To this day. And he was like, you can't talk to me like that. And he stormed off and we never spoke again. To this day? I mean, he would come home, I would say hi Mo, he would say hi Dina and that was our lives. Wow.

To this day? They divorced recently, but yeah. Recently. Huh, okay. So, at least you have commitment. You're able to, you have stick to it-ness.ness who is at fault there should I have been the bigger person like let's hash this out I'm six, but let's talk no Clearly I don't know that guy had the problem. He's got he must have had his own problems Yeah, he was I don't know what it was. He maybe he's uncomfortable with you who the fuck knows

But yeah, it was sort of on him when you're six. I would say, right? To sort of navigate that. That's what I thought. As a parent, kind of. Yeah, thanks for taking my side. And your mom said nothing? Well, so, okay, so therein lies the trauma

where my mom was like, she was not in her right mind my entire adolescence. As an adult, I learned to, in was not in her right mind my entire adolescence. As an adult, I learned to, in order to forgive her, I was like, oh, she was dealing with all the fallout of my dad's shit and she was probably losing her mind my entire coming of age. Right, and it's a marriage of convenience too, that she was trying to save her own life, right?

Right, and so once he got the green card, she thought they were gonna split, but he was kind of like, actually, I like this, let's stay together. But I mean, my entire childhood was them screaming at each other all night long, which part of the trauma of, almost every night they would be screaming, it was insane.

It's horrendous. As an adult, I'm like, I would never scream at my partner in front of my kids. It doesn't add up, because that's why I tell myself like, oh, that's a sign of how much pain she was going through. Because she's very loving, and like she loves her kids,

but like the fact that she would do that in front of us was like she must have been so out of her mind. Yeah. And now you scream on the drums. Exactly. Now it comes out on those fucking toms. Because I'd like to see some screaming in the comedy, if you.

Well, so, I mean, I would like to get there, and I have raised my voice on stage a little bit, it's part of the transformation. That's good, I like it, I like it. I'll get to the screaming, perhaps. Maybe you could do it in a character. Yeah, maybe. Of your stepfather.

Well, I need to get my notebook. Yeah. Okay, so that goes on for your entire fucking childhood? Yeah. Now, what's the Muslim component? So that's the thing. It's like sometimes I have trouble separating what was the Muslim trauma and what was just regular like shitty household trauma.

Well, I think we just discussed the domestic trauma. Yeah. And so this guy was religious, both of them were religious or? My mom definitely was, I mean he was on paper but I never saw him like pray. Never? No.

So he's a shitty Muslim and a monster. Oh God, it feels wrong to say that. I mean, I really think I have to attribute Muslim trauma. I don't wanna put words in your mouth. You can negotiate. He was probably suffering his attribute Muslim trauma. I don't want to put words in your mouth. You can negotiate. He was probably suffering his own Muslim trauma from growing up in a patriarchal Egyptian. Very diplomatic, very good for you.

Thank you, thank you. I mean, he was there, that's the thing. But your mom did the praying and the- Yeah, and I had to as well. She taught me how to pray. We was praying five times a day. Mosque? Well, no, funny enough, my mom was so busy working

and trying to keep us alive that she didn't even have time to force us to go to mosque or even learn the language. This is something actually I'm still mad at her for where she didn't teach us Arabic because she was afraid that we would develop an accent. It's like, you couldn't have just asked somebody, asked a language expert,

like are they gonna have an accent? What did you pray, you didn't pray in Arabic? Oh yeah, so the only Arabic I know is prayers. Oh yeah, I used to do that too. Oh right, but do you even know what you're saying? Like I didn't even know what I was saying. No, I don't know what I'm saying. Yeah, isn't that weird?

Yeah, but I'm not like a religious person, but you kinda go, you do what you gotta do. Right. You know, you do the bar mitzvah and then you're out. And I can kinda make out some words if I look at Hebrew. Right. You don't have it memorized or anything? No. I mean, yeah, the Hanukkah prayers. I'm not a good Jew when it comes to being religious, but I did do it. I learned how to read it and speak it, but I didn't know, no one ever

taught us the language. Isn't that funny? They didn't think it was important. It was more about just doing it than having you understand any part of it. Yeah, I guess, I don't know, that's like another level. I mean, you know, Catholic mass used to be in Latin, and I don't know that there were a lot of people figuring that out. And I think they wanna keep it creepy.

Right, right, right. They don't want you getting too close to God. Yeah, keep it mysterious. Make them work for it. See if they're interested. So that was it, praying at home. Yeah, prayed at home. But you said you did well in school, so you were able to kind of lock in. Yeah, yeah, I was really good at school.

I mean, my mom, for all her faults, she made sure that we were also good students and the importance of one day going to college or whatever, but that was itself another form of trauma. Cause my whole life, I was like, I have to be good at school so that I can go to college and get as far away from my family as possible.

Yeah. That was the goal. Sure. But then once college time came around, I started talking about applying to out of state school. She's like, you're not leaving the state. Are you kidding?

Dashed your dreams, dashed. Dashed. I remember crying in the bathroom. I you kidding? Dashed your dreams, dashed. Dashed. I remember crying in the bathroom. I was so torn apart and we didn't have money. So it's not like I could be like, well, I'm going anyway. I was so demoralized that even think to apply to any out of state schools, like maybe I'll get

a scholarship and I can escape. It just, I just didn't even think of doing that. Um, so I applied to Rutgers and they ended up giving me a full scholarship. So I was like, well, now I actually have to fucking go to this school because now I don't have to pay for it. And that's. Not a ended up giving me a full scholarship. So I was like, well, now I actually have to fucking go to this school, cause now I don't have to pay for it. And that's.

Not a bad school. Not a bad school. Actually it was very fateful, cause that's the only reason I started doing standup. But in New Brunswick, how far is that from where you lived? 20 minute drive. Oh. I commuted my first two years.

And then what happened in the second two years? I saved up enough money after working to get an apartment, an off campuscampus apartment. In New Brunswick? Yeah. Wow. Highland Park, technically, but yeah. Yeah?

Were you a Tom Sharpwing fan? Yeah, actually I met him a couple times in the Starbucks of Iceland. I don't know why he was there. Because he lived around there. Really? Yeah, that Sharpwing's jersey, man. Yeah, that's where I met him.

And I had already started doing stand-up. Oh, wow. He, that's Sharpwing's jersey, man. Yeah, that's where I met him and I had already started doing stand-up. Oh, wow. He was so nice, yeah. He's a great guy. Yeah. Very funny. Great. Yeah, well that's, so, fortuitous.

So, how does it, how do you start doing stand-up? The New Jersey Comedy Festival came, it was just a festival that would go to different colleges and anybody could enter to try out and then there'd be a final thing and they would crown somebody, whatever, winner. Was it at Vinnie's club? Well, Vinnie, Stress Factory was part of the prize, where if you won, you would get to do. I don't know if I've ever heard that said before.

Vinnie Brand was part of the prize. Oh my god. That is the first time that's ever been uttered. Unfortunately, that wasn't on video. You nearly did a spit take. Big prize to go to that place where they have a payphone on the stage. And he will use it for 40 minutes before you go up.

Of course, and he'll run those videos of car crashes to warm the audience up. So what year are you in college when you do that? Junior year, thankfully, because I won the contest and I just obviously just became obsessed with standup. And so if I'd been earlier than that, maybe I would have dropped out, but I only had a year to go.

So I was like, I'll finish school. And there was like a little standup scene around college so I could still just do it there. Holy shit, so what were you studying? English, philosophy, and Japanese. Oh, so full liberal arts trip. Yes. And you did well.

Yeah. How's your Japanese? It was really good, and then I never practiced it, and a lot of it fled my brain, but I went to Japan recently, and it sort of started coming back, and so I wanna get back into how as good as I was back then. Why Japanese? I just loved, I mean, I grew up loving Japanese video games, it sort of started coming back. And so I wanna get back into how as good as I was back then.

Why Japanese? I just loved, I mean, I grew up loving Japanese video games and anime and so I was just a nerd and- So that was, so that's the other component of you is that in the midst of all this trauma, you're playing video games and looking at anime and doing nerd culture stuff. I was just creating my own little world in my room.

Yeah, you got a room eventually. Eventually, yes, in high school. Got a room. Oh, big step. Sort of, the door, I mean, it was like. Oh, you talk about this on the special. Yeah. The no door business.

I didn't fucking close. Like, I finally got a room, but the door wouldn't close all the way. So I still didn't have my privacy and my mom never knocked, obviously. My parents put us in the basement. Oh, really? In the first house, yeah.

When I was like 10, there was like a, they just put a shag carpet in the basement and had a bathroom down there. Was it furnished at least? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It wasn't weird. They didn't chain the door. They just made a room and just put us down there. And there was two rooms upstairs that we could have had.

Why not? But they just did this, because the basement had been kind of carved out as a rec room for the people that lived there before. But yeah, we were in the basement. That actually sounds nice. It was big, it was good. We had a lot of room down there.

Yeah, like in a clubhouse. Sure, kinda, yeah. Yeah, and there was a separate room that was, I don't know, I just remember at some point during my childhood a cousin visited, it was on the road and it was just post-hippiness and it was some cousin of my mother's and they went down there and they found this massive amount of drugs in the roof, like, above one of the asbestos panels in the other room in the basement from the people that lived there before. It was crazy.

What kind of drugs? Just weed and pills and booze, like whatever the kids were, they were not good kids. That's so funny. The kids that lived here before, they were not the great kids. But we had no idea, we were totally young. So you didn't have a door that worked,

but you go to college and what, so who were the comics that you're seeing, are any of them around in college? No, I mean, I guess Julian, Julian went to Rutgers, right? Or am I thinking of... Oh, did he? Julian... Nicola. Did he?

I think so. I haven't seen that guy in a while. Is he in New York? I don't know. Yeah, I'd like to see that guy. That guy, he's been through it. Yeah. Yeah, I always liked that guy. Yeah, I hope I'm not mistaken. I'm pretty sure he's been through it. Yeah, yeah, really. I always liked that guy. Yeah, I hope I'm not mistaken.

I'm pretty sure he went to Rutgers. But, okay, so did you win the contest? I won, and I got addicted to it. Would you just write jokes? Who were you looking at? How'd you know what to do? I don't know, I mean, at the time, honestly, I wasn't even that into standup.

I would watch whatever was playing on Comedy Central. I actually really loved Daniel Tosh. I watched his specials. That's why I was trying to emulate when I was on stage, weirdly. Jarring, shock-driven jokes. I guess, I don't. It's good, it's a good place to start.

At least it puts you in the position to really take some risks, whether you know it or not, as to what the audience can take. Right, I mean, yeah. I was channeling him, I had one friend, a philosophy colleague, and he's the one who actually, he's probably the reason I entered it, because I had a little crush on him,

and he, at the time I thought he was so funny on stage, and then later I realized he was just doing Mike Birbiglia. And so, yeah, I entered, we were writing with each other, and I won, and it was the first time I felt like I could communicate with people. I was really a freak, I couldn't communicate with people. I had so much anxiety and trouble talking to people because of the way I grew up in my house.

I didn't speak to anyone in my house. I had no practice talking to people. I just didn't know how to do it. I was constantly being fired from jobs because I just didn't know how to do it. I was like constantly being fired from jobs because I just couldn't, I never spoke in meetings. Like the fact that I performed doesn't make any sense. And I say it in the special and it's true. Like I would panic thinking about raising my hand in class.

Like I'm not supposed to talk. But it totally makes sense. It's you learning how to talk. Yeah. Like you finding a voice is exactly what you needed to do. Exactly. And it changed my life. Like stand-up really, really changed my life. Like I don't know if I would have learned those skills if I hadn't.

Right. I don't know, I mean like, I don't know what I would be doing right now. It's total self-ownership. Right. You know, and I don't, you might have innately known that. Like you have complete control. Exactly. Yeah. That's the difference between, I mean, like,

when people are like, wait, you're afraid to talk in meetings, but you can talk in front of an audience, it's totally different. Totally. You're in total control on stage. Right. I'm not worried about what's going on in other people's heads.

Yeah, you can't be. I just assume they're not laughing because of me. Exactly. They could be thinking about the body they buried earlier. You don't fucking know. Yeah. Um. Um. Um. Yeah. Um. Yeah, there's a whole world out there in the audience.

Sure, man. Every person is a world. There's no fucking doubt. So true. And just the assumption. Like, I always notice that about specials, too, and I always notice it about when I'm on stage. It's like, why is the camera stopping

on the people not laughing? Yeah. Because, you know, you hear laughs, it's like, where are those people? And when I look at an audience, when I'm doing pretty well at a theater or something, and I look at people in the front row, I'm like, what's going on?

Yeah. Where are these laughs coming from? You always zone in, right, on the people who aren't. I do. Sometimes I'll zone in on one person to the point where they, they email me later and go like, I was very uncomfortable. Really?

It seemed like you were talking to me specifically for like at least a half hour. No way. I don't know that I'm doing it. And I have to stop myself from doing it. Like when you do a theater, you gotta kind of look at everybody. But like, I just naturally kind of like end up

in an area and I'm talking to them. I'm not, I'm not consciously talking to that person, but I'll catch myself realize that I'm looking at one person. Right. And then I'll look up and I'll be like, all right, I'll talk to everybody. Right. I don't like looking out. Yeah.

I like looking out if I'm nervous and it's like I'm not talking to nobody. There's literally nobody here. That's good. So, okay, so the philosophy guy, he said he was a colleague, was he just another student? That's right, man. I said colleague. I was looking for a colleague. Did you learn anything in philosophy?

Was that a major? Yeah, actually, so I didn't realize this, but Rutgers, top three schools in the world for philosophy. So they had all these amazing professors. I actually got a really good philosophy education. I wanted to go to grad school for philosophy or English. That was my plan. Or go to Japan and try to teach English.

Pete Slauson Those are two amazing things. I always aspire to understand philosophy. There's a language to it that I don't know, so you get lost pretty quickly. Anna Slauson The problem is that philosophers were often terrible writers and they were really trying to sound smart when they were writing because I had this moment so frequently where I would read something and it's like so dense and I'd be like, I think this is what they're trying to say. And the professor would be like, yeah, that's what they're saying. I'm like, why didn't they just say it simply? Like it's almost a way of like making sure

people don't understand you. It's like isolating it from regular people, which I hated that part of it. And it's part of why I stopped. I was like, this is like, it's for so few people in the world that it seems selfish to pursue something like this. Well, it seems like the language was established to sort of continue dialogue with past philosophers. So like whatever was established early on, you know, around being or not being and all this, that those concepts had to hold because so many of the philosophers were debating the past to kind of posit, right? I mean, I don't know. You're the philosopher.

I'm a stand up philosopher. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course we all are. Yeah, I think that's part of it. But part of it also is like, I mean, some things are so hard to discuss, you have to go into this language that's just- Yeah, and some things are so hard to discuss, you have to go into this language that's just- Yeah, and some things are completely useless to discuss. I mean, I just feel like I'm not gonna sit here and gripe about philosophy. But when people talk about philosophy

in kind of a casual way, it's like we've obviously never read philosophy because it's a fucking nightmare. Yeah, yeah, that's part of the reason why I decided not to go to grad school for it. I took a class called philosophy of metaphors and I would just sit there. Oh my God, I just got tired.

I know, I would sit there and I'd be like, is this helping anyone in the world? Like, stand up honestly, it helps more people than like if you become a professional philosopher. So it was like, it just felt like such a ridiculous thing and pretentious thing to pursue, but... Pete Slauson It would certainly keep you locked in academia. Anna Voelker Exactly. Pete Slauson Yeah.

Anna Voelker Which now sometimes I miss that bubble. I think of going back to the bubble of academia. Pete Slauson It's not easy in colleges now, you know, what's right and appropriate and what, you know what I mean? There's just a lot of stuff, not just diversity or gender and politics. I mean, on campuses, the pro-Palestinian movement is, it's hard to talk about, but I think you said something recently about it. The Middle East?

I've got lots, lots of thoughts, lots of things. Publicly? Yeah. And how's that going? I mean, it made me go back to Twitter. Like I'd stopped tweeting and then I was like, you know, I think about it every day, everything going on there and I feel such shit every day and I feel like a psychopath because it seems like every day I think about the compartmentalization of how we can just, did you see the zone of

interest? Yes. I mean, it's like, that's about us. That's about us. Totally. And I don't know, I can't stop thinking about it. And the only way I can deal with it is by posting things. And even though that's useless as well,

it's like maybe better than nothing. And so I just, I post things just to sort of feel like I'm going less crazy. And also it's tricky because, you know, whether you identify as a Muslim person or not, you are, right? I don't know. I never know what to call myself, because I'm not religious anymore. But I mean, like, as a Jew, you know, like, I'm certainly focused on fascism in this country. And I talk about it all the fucking time. And I talk about anti-Semitism. But this horrendous

thing that's going on, this conflict, has shifted a certain amount of responsibility onto culturally American Jews because they are being framed as being implicated because of the nature of what Israel represents. And it's very difficult to have a public opinion on either side without getting torn apart. And you just have to suck that up. And it's disingenuous, I feel like. I feel like there's a small number of actors online and in the real world, and then they make it their job

to make sure no one can have a productive conversation. About moving towards a resolution and stopping the killing. That's the thing, it's like, shut the fuck up. For a while, it's changing now, thank God, to be a more proactive conversation about ceasefire and a movement towards resolution of some kind. But at the beginning, it was like, you know, fuck you for even thinking that. Either you're with Israel or you're

with pro-Palestinians. And then, you know, then there's, you know, framing as some are anti-Semitic, some are fascist, and then if you just have a common sense rational reaction to it, they didn't wanna hear it. Right. Certainly as a Jew. Right. So it's very tricky. It's unfortunate to weaponize racism

as just a way of not having a conversation. It's like, and to call, then you call out that tactic, but then there's like, nothing can stop them from just using that as a bludgeon. Yeah, and it's so tricky too, like in terms of global anti-Semitism, this is the other thing about being a Jew, is that there's definitely this normalization going on in terms of the worst parts of anti-Semitism. It's a conflict within me in terms of how to talk about it.

It's also a problem when everyone has different bits of information. Half of it not real. Right. If you're not seeing the footage of everything happening in Gaza and then you start speaking in very extreme terms, people think you're crazy. But it's just because they don't have access

to the same information you do. Yeah, and I think the bottom line is that active fascism that is brutalizing a minority is bad. Yeah. No matter where it is. Right. It's like it's actually people make it sound like what's happening right now is complicated. And it's not it's as simple as should thousands of civilians be murdered.

Like that's not a complicated question. Exactly. Right? Yes. It's just annoying that people try to make it seem like it's more complicated than that. I just, I feel so powerless because even us talking about, it's not like, even if you talk about it publicly,

it's not going to do anything. Yeah. That's the hopelessness I feel every day and that's why I post because it's like, well, I don't know, maybe this is something, but I feel like I'm losing my mind every day. Do you get flack for it? You know what's funny?

I mean, I stop checking replies on things. It's a gift to not check replies, but I did get a DM from, I don't even know the name, of one comedian DM'd me after. I do prank calls. I prank call some senators about Gaza. And someone DM me angry about that. They're like, your special was produced by Sam Morell, a Jew. And you say these... It must be people who, again, don't know what's going on. They

just don't really know what's going on. Or they're brainwashed by Hebrew school, that the idea of the sovereignty and the necessity of Israel as a haven for Jews in the face of them being targeted runs deeper than God, and it runs deeper than almost anything else. So to rewire that, which is a basic cultural Jewish education, I think it's difficult. And so if you can't see past the thousands of Jews that were slaughtered to see the tens of thousands of Palestinians that are being slaughtered, they can't make that jump.

Right, right. I think also in general, at least in America, I really do think that like we've been normalized to think of the Middle East as a site of war. It is, has been. Exactly. But like I think in people's heads, they're like, oh, brown people over there are dying? Well, that's just what they do. Like, I really do think, I mean, I don't think they're actively thinking that, but it's subconscious there.

The fact is, is that a lot of this conflict has been going on for thousands of years, and even the smartest of people don't really have their brains wrapped around it. Yeah, I mean, that is complex, for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We don't need to solve it here. Yeah, are you sure? I think we could solve it.

You do? Can we get the warring parties on the phone? Let me ask my therapist who's listening in. Could you get Natanya, leader of Hamas on the phone. Let me ask my therapist who's listening in. Could you get Natanya, leader of Hamas on the phone? Cause I think we've got this nailed. Shit. But what happened with that other thing?

Like, okay, well, let's go back. So you win the contest, you get to play at the stress factory. Yes. How'd that go? Well, I believed that I was gonna be doing like five minutes. That was what it was sold as, I believe.

But then gracious Vinny thought it was okay for me to host instead as someone who had just started doing stand-up. That's all right, no. No, no, I was like, I was. Oh, so you had to do 10 up front. Yeah, and also warm up a crowd. I don't know how to do that. Like, it was, I was so bad.

I did the mistake even. I remember this actually, Andy Pitts was featuring. Yeah. And I had to bring him up. And after my 10 minutes, I was like, okay guys, now it's time to bring up an actually funny person. Like, I did that thing.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so afterward, he graciously just explained to me why that's not good to do. Vinny did? No, Andy. Oh, okay. Vinny, after I'd finished my set, I have all my jokes written on my hand.

He comes up to me, he's like, that was good, but here are the jokes I don't want you to do for the next set. And he lists all my jokes, and I'm like, I'm like freaking out. And then he's like, I'm just fucking with you, which he does all the fucking time. But that was his contribution. Oddly, I think it was probably a good call to make you host.

Why? Because it's a baptism in fire. And like, you know, it's gonna suck at some point. But to like host in that Jersey ass room. I guess. I guess. I mean, it is sort of, it would have been nicer to have the Cush guest spot, but. Yeah, you're right. Maybe, I don't even think he was thinking that hard about it.

Like, I'm gonna teach the old comic. No, he was thinking he didn't have to pay a host. Exactly. Exactly. It's worked out for Vinny. But then you go, how long before you move into New York? That was like my home club for a while. Really, so you'd go to the open mics every Wednesday?

The open mics every Wednesday, yeah. That's good, they still had them. For sure, it was a fun little scene. But I stayed, I guess mostly in Jersey. And you got to watch all the guys come in too, right? All the comics come in from New York and stuff and do sets? Yeah, the headliner sets, yeah. For sure, yeah, it was great.

Actually Bonnie and Rich were often there at the mic on the mic days too, so we got to watch them. She's funny. Yeah. I love them, they're the best. Bonnie was an early inspo. She was actually at, oh no, no,

she was a judge for that festival the next year, not for mine. But yeah, watching her was really inspiring. But for the first three years I focused on Jersey and then I moved to Jersey City, so I never actually moved to New York proper. You live in Jersey City now? Yeah. Really?

Yeah. Should you get a house or what? Should you get a house? Did you get a house? Oh, no, I'm renting. I mean, at first it was like this is the cheaper option, but now it's the most expensive city in the country on average, actually.

Your rent went up? It did, but actually I have such a good deal and that's why I can never leave. I have a really good deal on rent. I was born in Jersey City. No way. Yeah. Really?

Yep. I don't think the hospital's there anymore. My dad was born in Jersey City. What? Yeah. Wait, so did you live in Jersey from? Yeah, when I was a kid. Oh, interesting. Yeah, I'm genetically Jersey all the way. Wow, you're a Jersey City. What? Wait, so did you live in Jersey from? Yeah, when I was a kid. Oh, interesting.

Yeah, I'm genetically Jersey all the way. Wow, you're a Jersey boy. Both my parents are from Jersey, yeah. You don't bring that up, do you? Yeah, I do. You know, when I talk to people from Jersey. But I don't, like we moved out of Jersey, you know, when I was like six or something,

and my dad was in the service, and moved to Alaska for a couple years, then to New Mexico. but I always had a relationship with Jersey because all my relatives were there. So I was there, you know, for, you know, fewer weeks, a couple times a year. My grandmother lived in Pompton Lakes. The other grandparents lived in Bayonne,

then Asbury Park. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, those are at least nice parts of Jersey to visit. I guess so, Bayonne. It's okay. Well, maybe not there, but Asbury Park. They lived in this one, but it was before Asbury Park. It was like when it was not functioning anymore. I remember when I was real young,

they had the little ride with the boats and you go in a circle, and my grandparents lived in that one apartment at the end of the boardwalk, which must have been senior's apartment, it's still there. But it was like you walk on the boardwalk and it was just nothing going on. Okay. Yeah, it wasn't hopping. That still sounds nice.

It was cool. Yeah. Yeah, I like having memories of Jersey. That's good. So Jersey City though. It's kind of us, too. Yeah. Jersey City, yeah, it's fine. And then, yeah, I spent all my time learning comedy in New

York. Who was your generation? Was it Sam? No, that was above me. I don't really, I'm trying to think of like who from my generation is even like, I don't know. I feel like Sam's was the last one where like everyone could pop off

doing standup quickly and. Oh really? Sort of, yeah. Like I'm trying, I don't know. I mean, my probably best friend and in comedy is Dan Pearlman. Uh-huh. Um.

But there's a bunch he is. Where'd you take that special? Union Hall? Where was that? My special? Lincoln Lodge in Chicago. Oh really? That's Lincoln Lodge. Yeah. Huh. And I dressed it up. Yeah, I played there once but I wouldn't remember it. I only had performed there once before deciding to film it there.

I really liked it. And Sam produced it? Yeah. And directed it or no? No, James Webb directed it. How did Sam get involved with producing? I asked him to. I mean, Sam's been like the angel on my shoulders

my entire career. Yeah. I mean, he's helped me with so much. Yeah. So I was like, I guess it's time to do a special. Yeah. And so I asked him. He was like, of course, and yeah.

What was his job in producing it? He paid for it or he just? No, I paid for it. Just like sort of consulting. Oh good, yeah. He's a good guy. He's the best, he's helped me so much. I can't say his praises enough.

So. Yeah, came out good. I don't know. What? You're here to sell it. Right. It's great, it's your best stuff. It's the amount, this is everything you've learned

and done, the best of it. Yeah. I mean, like I said, you said it. I look nervous, I hate that, but whatever. It's fine, it's one thing. It's the first thing, it's the first thing. You think you look nervous. I definitely do, you said it.

Well, I know, but I didn't wanna be the only one saying it. I just wanna make that clear. The jokes were good, you were funny, but I felt a little, just as a comic. I don't know if anyone else. Of course, no. I mean, the whole thing with me, I realized halfway into my career that people thought I was doing a character on stage.

This nervous character is like, no, I'm just nervous. All right. But I had to break out of that, thanks to the pandemic. And that's happening. It's happening. So the next special is gonna be. Next one. Oh, gosh.

So confident. Swagger. You know, just hold your hats. So let's talk about this, like this, I wanna know how you got through that shit show with the tweet. If you're not tired of talking about it. It wasn't a tweet, so I did, you're talking about the joke about the rapper.

Yeah. Okay, it was for this week at the Comedy Cellar, that show that was on for a little bit. I told a joke about, I mean the theme, I cannot stress enough, I didn't just, I wrote this joke specifically for that show, the theme, I cannot stress enough, I didn't just, I wrote this joke specifically for that show. The theme was R. Kelly, so I was like, I'm gonna have this other joke about this other actor.

And I just didn't know, I didn't know anything about that guy, I didn't know he had a cult following of millions of mentally unwell teenagers. And Comedy Central didn't even tell me they were posting the joke. It was like at first a happy surprise, like oh, they posted a joke online. And then I just remember the trickle of replies

at first that were like, that's fucked up. I was like, oh, that's funny. That's exciting. Yeah. And then it just very quickly spun out of control. What was the joke? So this guy, this rapper, he died on his way buying like a motorcycle.

He was carrying like a bag full of cash by a car, whatever. And these guys robbed him and shot him, and that's how he died. And so the joke was just, that's very tragic, but it would be a really good Venmo commercial. Just, I mean, to me, it was a throwaway joke. Yeah, there's nothing wrong, it's not loaded.

No, it's about Venmo. To me, the humor was in how ridiculous it would be for Venmo, this huge corporation, you have such a violent commercial. That's what I thought was funny about it. But of course, it got spun into all kinds of things. Racial things. Racial. I mean, anyone, it was such an interesting prism for if you had an agenda, that's how

you approached this thing. I saw the free speechers come out defending me. The comedians were coming out, defending me on behalf of comedians. And on the other side, it was like, this is a white woman making a joke about black deaths. And I was like, first of all, I'm not white. And I posted that because I thought it might help. I was like, oh, maybe it'll help

if they think I'm not white. So I was like, by the way, instead of calling me a white bitch, please call me an Arab bitch. And of course that backfired immediately. Everyone was like, you terrorists, go back to where you came from. Oh no. He brought in new people.

Yeah, I brought in... That backfired. And I was literally getting thousands every day. Comedy Central did nothing. Well, I spoke to them on the phone for like two weeks every day because I mean, of course, so at the time, their whole strategy was like, we're not gonna say anything because that'll make this all go away quickly.

And I was in such a mess where I was like, okay, that makes sense, I want it to go away, whatever you say, whatever makes this go away. And of course, I know the comics in my ear being like, they're just being cowards, like they should come out and defend you, they should say something. And I was like, I don't know, I just wanted to go away.

And they provided me with physical security. I had security at my house because they doxxed me. Oh my God. These psychos posted my, they thought it was my address, it was my mom's address, the house I grew up in. And so they had security out there, just making sure nothing happened.

Did anything happen? No. But like when you're in that mental space, you don't know what's possible. The things I was reading, I'm like, oh, someone's obviously gonna come try and kill me. Sure, of course. And so, yeah, nothing happened,

but they were, I mean, I have so many absurd, like I stayed, I ended up staying with my mom just because she was freaking out. And I would like gather the courage to like go outside and like go to the mall. I was like, I'll go to the mall and the security guard would come like shopping with me. It was just so weird. And I would see- Terrorized. I was scared. I would see teens in the mall and it'd be like, Oh my God, they're going

to recognize me. They're going to try to fight me. And then of course nothing happened. You realize the internet is this own world. But also, but that is the effect that psychological terror takes. That's the best hope that they had, was to make your life terrifying. So you either learn this lesson or never speak again. Exactly.

I don't know if they know that as a group that that's what they're doing, but that is the intention. That's the effect. Yeah. Or to get you canceled, which I don't think that seems like a cancelable offense in terms of whatever that means. But that didn't sound like that's what they were trying to do. They just wanted you to be schooled.

Yeah, it was a mixture of that. And like, it's funny, I was so naive at the time. Like, there was some messages coming from people. Whenever there was somebody who messaged me and it seemed like I could actually communicate with them, I would DM them, be like, hey, do you want to talk about this? And of course, I never got a reply

because that's not the point. They didn't want understanding. They were also using it for clout for their own brand of like, I mean, famous, like, rappers were making statements about it. Like, you're really offended by this fucking little girl making a joke about this guy. No, you're doing it so you can seem high and mighty. Oh, that's interesting, right.

And like be it a news story, like, I mean... Glom on, pile on. Yeah, like I know, I mean, the most annoying thing was that, I mean, I don't think this is probably true, but I mean, the first person who posted about it and it got a lot of traction was a comedian. And like, that was the thing of like, he was obviously doing it for clout to see it.

Like, even though he had a show with Comedy Central, like, oh, really, you're upset? Why don't you just DM your friend at Comedy Central instead of making this post about it? Because it's obviously not about. And he knew this guy. I didn't know him, but just around. And then from there, other outlets picked it up

because he had a big following, I guess, a biggish following, but I think the same thing would happen whether he posted or not, because it just went crazy. So how did it all, did it just eventually fade? It just faded. I mean, I was getting messages for a year. Like it was a year.

I have screenshots of some of the messages still. It was like the craziest thing that's ever happened to me. And... But it didn't stop you from doing work or getting work. Well, I mean, it's funny, because right before it happened, I had this like little deal with Airbnb. They were doing these like comedy experiences in New York

where I come hang out with the comedian. And so they picked me into other comics. And so I'd just finished filming the promo for that. And it was gonna be a good chunk of money for me at the time. It was like $6,000. And then we had to cancel that, because they were like, I don't think it's a good time for strangers

to be able to come meet you. Wow. And so there was some, I did lose some money as a result, but, and I was scared. They were sending me messages like, we know you're gonna be here, we'll kill you if you show up. So I was.

Oh my God. So, yeah, for awhile. So you did lose a job. So that is sort of in the umbrella of cancellation in a way. I mean, it compromised your ability to work. Yes, it was very frustrating. At the cellar, I was going up under a pseudonym, just in case.

Yeah. It was just- There's a few women that do that at the comedy store just for individual stalkers. Oh my God, really? Yeah. That's such a shame, because then people can't show up and see them,

because they don't know. Well, they can go do their bigger shows, but when they're just working out, right. You know, where, yeah, it's a fucked up world, and it's easy to fuck someone's head up. That's my fear, having a stalker. It's not happened yet.

I was afraid I was gonna, something was gonna, someone, it only takes one mentally ill person to be like, okay, I'm gonna go kill that person. Or just make their life horrendous. Yeah, and there were so many. And there's nothing you can do about it, really. I mean, I'm gonna go kill that person. Or just make their life horrendous. Yeah, and there were so many on the will. And there's nothing you can do about it, really. I mean, I had a little moments of fun where somebody- I used to have a woman park in front of my house.

Really? Yeah, for months. And did she try to say anything or did she just- She'd bring me presents and sit out there and watch things on her iPod and on her iPad and come to shows. It was like, you know, it just- And then she just lost her kids. Well, yeah, if you don't engage,

you know, with that, with a one-on-one stalker situation, eventually they do lose interest, yeah. Wow, and you never called the cops or anything? I did, on the one in front of my house, but they're like, you know, I'm like, I know there's nothing you can do, but maybe just, you know, ask her if she can go away. Or at least like search her, make sure she doesn't have a gun or something.

Oh yeah, death threats are the worst. Yeah. But the cops really think like, well, it's kind of part of it. And I don't know that it ever was part of it. And a lot of times it really depends on your relationship with your own social media and with your own, you know, like if you're on it all the time, everybody who's really famous, more famous than us certainly, has lunatics.

Yeah. So eventually you just have to not deal with it. But they at least can afford having security everywhere. Right, that's true. But that changes your life. That's true, yeah. Also a bad way. But everything's okay now?

Oh, yeah. I mean, I'm trying to think of the last time I got a message, it was definitely during the pandemic because whenever something happened in the news, they would change their insults. So it was like, I hope you get coronavirus. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So that happened long enough ago for it to have passed. Yeah, but it's, yeah, pretty much over. So what's going on now? You're plugging the special, but are you just doing stand-up? You've written for a lot of things too, right? I write for The Daily Show now. Now, you do? Mm-hmm.

What's going on over there? Daddy's back. Jay's, John Stewart's back. Once a week? Once a week on Mondays. So you write for him? Uh-huh, on Mondays. Yeah.

And then the correspondent host the rest of the week. And... Were you ever up to do the correspondent thing? Well, I only started there recently. I started last... Maybe with this newfound charisma. Yeah. This newfound zero fuckness.

You're about to become a correspondent. Well, since I'm newish, I don't think they allow the new writers to try out or be considered. How's the vibe over there? I actually love it. I really love being there. I never thought I could be happy in an office job,

but it filled this void that I had been feeling for years of not feeling a sense of community. With stand-up, you know how it is. You have your scene, and then everyone goes their different ways. And I was like, oh, I don't feel that anymore. And so being there has really filled that void in a really positive way. And you can go to work, and it's focused.

And it's structure. Like, I really needed structure. I didn't know how badly I needed structure. What do you mostly do over there? Monologue jokes or joke jokes? Or how does it work? Well, we have a morning meeting where we watch all the videos of the news that we're going to talk about that day.

People casually throw out ideas and jokes. Well, we have like a morning meeting where we watch all the videos of the news that we're going to talk about that day. People casually throw out ideas and jokes. And then we go to our computers and we pitch, they tell us what they need specific jokes for and then we all write them. Then they choose their favorites and it goes into the script. How does it feel to have, I wonder how it feels having John back there? Is it like when he comes, I mean, you weren't there when he was there. I wasn't, no.

So does it shift the environment? Um, I mean it's exciting. Yeah No, it's kind of this The work is done the same way. Yeah. Yeah Are you working on any other shows or any movies? Are you writing a thing? I'm right big plan thing I'm out there pitching me and my friend friend, co-worker Matt Kauff, very funny comedian. I'm trying to work on a little tune.

A tune? Cartoon. Oh really? Yeah, I've always wanted to, I loved, I dream is, I've always wanted to do voice acting. I have had a couple, thanks to Rami, I did a role that was so much fun on his show that's coming out on Amazon at some point.

I was voicing a lamb, a suicidal lamb, which I feel like it's just perfect for me. And so. That could have been the name of your special. Yeah. And so I wanna do more of that. So like I would love to just have my own cartoon and do voices that to me that's like,

that'd be so much fun. Yeah, well, maybe it'll happen. Voice over is fun. I did the bad guys movie and it's great. Oh yeah? Yeah. I did the Bad Guys movie, and it's great. Oh, yeah? Yeah. I did the Bad Guys movie, which was a pretty big DreamWorks movie.

Now they're making another one. And DreamWorks is like 10 minutes from my house, so I'm like, that's easy. Isn't it cushy? Is that? Easy commute. Well, it's fun when you can get in the room with other people.

A lot of times with VoiceOver, you're isolated. I was isolated, yeah. Yeah, but it's kind of fun when you can get it all going on. That sounds fun. It was fun. Because it's like Craig Robinson and Sam Rockwell and Awkwafina. That's amazing. Anthony Ramos.

Yeah, it's funny. That's so fun. Yeah, it's fun. Well, it's good talking to you. You too. Thank you. I think we solved a lot of problems here, both personally and globally, I think we just did it.

We didn't address climate change, but I don't know if we can really add to that conversation. I have zero knowledge. It's bad. Oh, okay. All right, talk to you soon. Bye. That was good. I like her. Good comic, smart, good writer, all of it.

Her special Dark Little Whispers is streaming on Prime Video. Go watch it. Hang out for a minute. Addiction doesn't discriminate people. In Canada, for instance, we lose 20 people to drug overdose every single day. So if you're listening to this and you've experienced addiction, just know that you're not alone.

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the ride and punch your ticket to Rock City at torontorock.com. People, the last Ask Mark Anything episode is now up for full merit subscribers. So go check it out to hear me answer questions like this. On your second CD, tickets still available. There's a great hidden track where you name the feral cats, Mini, Monkey, Hissy and Fuck. Aside from Monkey, did any of the other three cats stick around in your life for any reasonable amount of time? Did you guys ever really bond at all or did those three remain feral? Well, let's see. I remember Hissy, I remember Meanie. I don't know if Fok became Fonda because La Fonda was one of that original litter monkey and Lafonda were with me for 16 years meany split very quickly

You know I he a bodega across the street wanted a cat and I brought him over there and he was just too feral and he disappeared into the Into the world hissy. I actually found an owner I don't know how that cat is doing because they were all pretty feral but but a woman did take hissy. It was a black and white long hair and a kind of a cool cat. But yeah so I definitely bonded with monkey and Lafonda. They were with me for their whole lives. To sign up for the full Marin so you can get bonus episodes twice a week go to the link in the episode description or go to WTF pod.com and click on WTF plus.

And a reminder before we go, this show is sponsored by better help online therapy, take a minute to check your social battery. How's it doing? It's easy to ignore our needs and spread ourselves too thin. Sometimes therapy can give you the self-awareness to build a social life that doesn't drain your battery. Better help offers affordable online therapy on a schedule that works for you. Start the process in minutes and switch therapists anytime. Find your social sweet spot with BetterHelp. Learn more at BetterHelp.com

that's BetterHELP.com and don't forget this podcast is hosted by Acast. Here's a little guitar from the vault. So So So I'm gonna be a good boy. Boomer Lives